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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Trading Aces
2008-10-16 17:27
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

At It Might Be Dangerous... You Go First, Paul DePodesta uses the reports that Padres ace Jake Peavy might be traded to talk about the philosophy of dealing star players.

We are looking to get better.

It's really that simple. We're not trying to trade certain players, and we're certainly not looking to move players just to move them. As with any off-season or trading deadline, we're assessing the market value for our players to see whether or not that value surpasses their value to the Padres. If you have something you value at one million dollars, it would be foolish to refuse to consider selling it for twenty million dollars. On the flip side, it would also be foolish to sell it for anything less than one million. The thing that makes the market work is that each player has a different value to virtually every Club.

Furthermore, no one player makes a great team. This has been proven time and time again in baseball. We don't need to look any further than the 2008 Padres that went 63-99 with Jake Peavy ...

This, of course, doesn't mean that trading a star player ensures success. What it does show, however, is that trading a star player can buoy a team. That is what we're exploring.

As far as Jake's particular situation, we have him under contract for the next four years with an option for a fifth year. Our task, then, is to determine whether what we would receive in exchange for him would outweigh the benefits of having him for those five years (presumably some player(s) we would get in return could be of service for more than five years, so that needs to be factored in as well). Make no mistake, however - we place tremendous value on Jake's presence here. That is why any offers for him in past years and every day up until this writing have been rejected. ...

In short, we are charged with fielding the best possible team in both the short and long terms. Believe me, we wish we could put together a dynamic team comprised of players who would remain as Padres for the duration of their careers. On a personal level, we don't enjoy trading players. I don't know any executive who does. However, that just isn't the reality of today's game. Because of that fact, the best organizations out there can't really believe in the concept of "untouchable", because one can lose great opportunities with such blinders.

So, to answer the most basic question: are we going to trade Jake Peavy? We'll see if someone offers us a compelling deal that makes us better.

I've made a similar point on a number of occasions, saying that characterizing a team as a buyer or a seller is a false dichotomy. Teams are just looking to get better, the most efficient way possible.

Comments (163)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-16 17:36:53
1.   Jacob Burch
LAT'd in a few ways.

D4P: Sort of sums up the last few posts (we sort of got out of sync), but my objection was when BH suggested he didn't feel victimized, you acted as though because he liked the team, he was finding Ned perfect, etc etc etc. It irked me, but I think most of that has been sorted out.

And:
123 Eric will not rest until he tries and make people despise Nelson more than I despise him for the Matt Stairs home run.

And the compliment made me happier than you may realize, TC. Thanks.

2008-10-16 17:38:17
2.   trainwreck
The free agent options for hitters really stink this year. I am worried about our offense for next year.

We are going to really need DeWitt to hit well enough to solidify third. If we cannot keep Manny, we are probably going to need to trade for an outfielder. Don't think we have enough to also trade for a third baseman.

2008-10-16 17:39:18
3.   KG16
Furthermore, no one player makes a great team.

That's something we should put on a poster around here this off season. Baseball is a strange game, ultimately, it is an individualized sport played at the team level. What the player in front of me does has little bearing on what I do at the plate, what I do has little bearing on what the player behind me does. Against Pitcher X, a team scores 7 runs in two innings, the next day, against Pitcher Y, the team scores 2 runs in 7 innings.

I think it really takes at least 2 great position players and at least 2 great pitchers (in the old days to great starting pitchers were almost a requirement, but today you might be able to get by on one great starter and a great closer, but I'd still prefer to great starters) to make a good team great. That's likely the problem with the Dodgers as presently constructed, with the exception of Manny and Furcal (both free agents) the Dodgers don't have any great players, at the moment.

Still, I like this core group of guys and really hope none of them get moved for PVL.

2008-10-16 17:41:25
4.   KG16
2 - I'm thinking that Blake will get re-signed if Manny leaves. That would move DeWitt to second, allow for one of Furcal/Hu/DeJesus at short, and give the farm some time to develop a third baseman.

Heck, might not be a bad idea anyway.

2008-10-16 17:42:44
5.   Jacob Burch
3 My friend and I played a game the other day where we tried to, off the top of our heads, name the currently rostered player most likely to hit 300/30/100. It would be interesting to see if we could do the same trying to name the teams with two greats in each category.

I'm more one to think that my favorite teams have a solid 90% or so, top-to-bottom in the rotation, bullpen and line up with at least three great players spread through out it.

2008-10-16 17:43:38
6.   Jacob Burch
Also, it has been batted around that Casey first said he'd most likely return to Cleveland, but it being a two-street way, I'm pretty positive Cleveland does not want him back. Am I nuts on thinking this?
2008-10-16 17:45:29
7.   Tripon
6 Indian GM Shaprio said he's looking to resign Casey Blake if it makes sense.
2008-10-16 17:45:57
8.   Branch Rickey
Furthermore, no one player makes a great team.
When this point comes up, I always think of the Mariners who couldn't win with Griffey, A-Rod and Randy Johnson. That is the ultimate lesson that winning baseball requires a balanced team much more than one, two or even three superstars.
2008-10-16 17:46:17
9.   ToyCannon
6
If they are moving Peralta to 3rd and Cabrera to SS where do they have room for Casey?
It might be that the Dodgers were not very impressed with Casey, he didn't exactly do much during crunch time except hit one key home run. From Sept 16th till the end of the Dodger season he hit one home run. As a 3rd baseman. Carlos Santana could have done that from both sides of the plate in the same game.
2008-10-16 17:49:33
10.   Jacob Burch
I hope Carlos Santana becomes the Bill Brasky of DT. Especially years down the line when he doesn't pan out* and new comers, equally confused by LAT, don't understand why we lionize a guitar player on a baseball blog.

* - Forgive me!

2008-10-16 17:58:24
11.   ToyCannon
I don't know this Bill Brasky you speak of but I do no that HSC is already the poster child for players who didn't pan out that we loved.

My mancrush on Carlos is ego related as I was asking BA questions on him dated back to his days in the Dominican Rookie League only to be ignored until one day they looked up and said Holy Crap this guy is the MVP of the California League and might be better then this LaPorta guy we wet our pants about when he was traded for CC.

2008-10-16 18:00:55
12.   bhsportsguy
11 I remember those questions.
2008-10-16 18:02:16
13.   Jacob Burch
Source is one of the odder SNL skits during not-so-great mid-90s. Watching them was sort of absurd, but they're fun to read. Sort of Chuck Norris jokes a decade earlier, but more irreverent and usually actually funny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Brasky

2008-10-16 18:11:40
14.   D4P
Gurnick has an article up about Pierre asking for a trade.
2008-10-16 18:12:41
15.   Jon Weisman
From the same article:

"Teammates say Jones wants no part of a return to Los Angeles."

2008-10-16 18:12:54
16.   trainwreck
4
Re-signing Blake if Manny leaves is pretty much the worst consolation prize ever.

Looking at things, I think we almost have to sign Manny.

2008-10-16 18:13:02
17.   Jon Weisman
That part is unsourced.

http://tinyurl.com/4vvhke

2008-10-16 18:13:21
18.   D4P
15
Heh, I was just gonna post that.
2008-10-16 18:13:30
19.   trainwreck
Frankly, we cannot count on Andruw Jones at all anyways.
2008-10-16 18:19:54
20.   LogikReader
You know what, you guys?

No matter what the Dodgers went through this week, nothing is as embarrassing as this ALCS is for Boston.

The Boston dynasty crumbles!! Hooray for everybody!

2008-10-16 18:19:58
21.   regfairfield
Once you get rid of Jake Peavy, you're going to replace him with a player that's worse than Jake Peavy. Unless the Padres get very lucky, the maximum number of games they could win is going to go down. Sure, they could replace him with some guys who will be more valuable combined than Peavy, but players where do you go from there if they aren't good enough? It's a lot cheaper to improve a team with one really good player and a bunch of bad ones than it is to improve a team with a bunch of okay ones.
2008-10-16 18:21:55
22.   fanerman
20 I thought my wood knocking days were over.

Oh phewie, since it's not the Dodgers, whatever.

2008-10-16 18:22:22
23.   bhsportsguy
But now, do Pierre and Jones fall into to the they don't want to be here category?
2008-10-16 18:26:45
24.   D4P
23
Pierre wants to play. If he can't play here, then he doesn't want to be here.

Jones wants to get paid. The bottom line for 2009 is he'll get paid no matter where he is, but he might want to be somewhere else just so he doesn't have to deal with as much baggage. The baggage will accrue elsewhere too, but at least he'd start at a lower baggage level somewhere else.

2008-10-16 18:28:39
25.   bhsportsguy
24 I can only speak for me but no one got less of a honeymoon than Andruw Jones. I'm not saying he should have but short of being cheered for on Opening Day, by the time he came home for the second homestand, it was over.
2008-10-16 18:32:01
26.   trainwreck
If the Braves trade for Peavy, I sure hope the Padres do not get Jayson Hayward.
2008-10-16 18:33:59
27.   trainwreck
*Heyward
2008-10-16 18:35:11
28.   Ken Noe
I give JP credit, he could have made this an ugly issue during the season, but he didn't. I hope someone wants him, for his sake as well as ours. As for Jones, who on earth would want him?
2008-10-16 18:35:45
29.   Brian Y
Besides being unsourced, it doesn't even specify WHICH of his teammates are saying this. Are these the teammates that even speak to him on a semi regular basis and would have any knowledge of what he does and does not want? I mean, this is just ridiculous journalism.
2008-10-16 19:03:15
30.   bhsportsguy
Evan Longoria is an example of not drafting the best player because you have other players supposedly ahead of him in the system.
2008-10-16 19:03:53
31.   underdog
Yah, I have more sympathy, or at least respect, for Pierre than I do for Jones. I'm glad Pierre isn't one of our starters, but at least he gave effort when he played, didn't cause a ruckus. Jones was just awful this year, and it's no one else's fault but his own. It's fine if he admits such, and works hard to remedy it, but he really shouldn't be demanding anything or expecting anyone else wants him. If he does play his way back into the mix next year, play more like he used to, then that'll be great for everyone. But he's got to earn that belief and the respect.

Pierre, as I've said here before, will definitely be traded this off-season. To who, and for what, will be the questions.

2008-10-16 19:13:30
32.   bhsportsguy
UCLA starts basketball practice at 8:00 p.m.

There will be no press, cheerleaders or Joe Bruin in attendance.

However, expect Morgan and Gordon to learn what "hedging" means.

2008-10-16 19:18:26
33.   underdog
Oh is there still baseball going on? :-/ (I literally almost forgot about the Rays-Sox game.)

But off to soccer!

2008-10-16 19:19:00
34.   Bob Hendley
25 - You're right, but the booing may have been meant for Torre as well, since the strategy seemed to be to just keep plugging him in there day after day until he snapped out of it. He actually seemed to be regressing. And, of course, there were options on the bench. The same thing that motivated this plan, the big outlay for Dru, just intensified the booing.
2008-10-16 19:22:47
35.   OhioBlues12
Everyone knew the Pierre trade demand would be coming and he will get traded and I think we will get something useful back. The question of what to do with Jones is a tough one. If Ramirez comes back we obviously have trade him or release him. If Ramirez doesn't come back then we still almost have to move Jones because the pressure to be the big bat will be even greater than it was before we got Ramirez. He will never live up to those expectations, though no one will be able to put up those numbers.
2008-10-16 19:23:13
36.   trainwreck
32
That video of the freshmen interviewing each other was pretty cool.
2008-10-16 19:34:04
37.   rayg
possible Pierre destinations? you need go no farther than Cincinnatti where Dusty Baker runs the team. He gave Corey Patterson another shot even though he didn't deserve it. Pierre played for Baker in Chicago.
Another is the Whitesox-they need a speedy OFer, and have read about this need more than a few times this year.
2008-10-16 19:40:11
38.   Louis in SF
I don't think we will ever get full value for either JP or Jones and the only way to go is to trade both of them pick up significant parts of their salaries and get some prospects back who may have some value in a few years. What is unfortunate I really can't see a market for Jones unless we pay lots of his salary.
2008-10-16 19:47:17
39.   Bob Hendley
There was a question in an earlier thread about the Dominican League. It commenced playing this week. The Mexican Pacific League started last weekend. Eric Stulst (sic) made his first start and went 5 IN 1 ER 6K and 0 BB. Also on the Mazatlan team with Eric are Terry Tiffee and Brian Myrow.
2008-10-16 19:51:16
40.   KG16
29 - the bit on Jones is not the sort of thing you can source and expect to get access in the future. dirty laundry only gets aired on background. What happens if the Dodgers don't move Jones and this source said that it was Kemp or Ethier or Martin that said this? It's going to be a bad situation in the locker room, and despite the chemistry mythos, that's not good for a team. It's not bad journalism at all, it's reporting what can be reported without destroying your source.
2008-10-16 19:53:07
41.   ryu
I must admit I really enjoy watching Jonathan Palpelbon struggle.
2008-10-16 19:55:38
42.   KG16
38 - what is full value of something you don't need/want? Honestly, if moving these guys improves the team (even if it's addition by subtraction), then it's the right move and in the best interest of the team. Even if you have to swallow some of the salary, the goal is to make the MLB roster the best possible this and each year.
2008-10-16 19:57:39
43.   trainwreck
We should clone the Upton brothers and field an entire team of them.
2008-10-16 19:59:55
44.   OhioBlues12
42 - Exactly. The goal should be to move move players that are tying up resouces and providing no benefit for players where we have a need even if money has to exchange hands. I can't see any scenario where Pierre would be useful to this team so he should be moved for a player that would be useful even if that player is only marginally useful.
2008-10-16 20:00:09
45.   Jon Weisman
40 - We can debate what "bad journalism" is, but the unsourced aspect limits its value and its reliability. And if it hadn't been reported at all, I don't think any of us would be worse off.
2008-10-16 20:04:56
46.   Indiana Jon
37 I agree. Since the Reds have traded away their entire outfield from last year and have only Bruce to replace them, and possibly Dickerson is he's as good as he was the last couple of months, they need someone out there better than Patterson. Pierre may be that guy. The Dodgers could probably get Encarnacion for him.
2008-10-16 20:05:02
47.   OhioBlues12
Example - Trade Jones to the Yanks for Kei Igawa. This would not be trade because of any burning desire to acquire Igawa, but more to move Jones and get a player that might be useful but would likely only provide depth in case a pitcher got hurt. We trade Jones and pay his entire salary for Igawa with the Yanks paying his salary. Not saying something like this should or would happen but it would be the only way to move Jones.
2008-10-16 20:15:25
48.   rayg
couple things:
Peavy-Olney reports he could be dealt fairly quickly:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3647795&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

sorry, no idea how to "tinyurl"

and Jones was quoted in a Dylan Hernandez article on Oct. 10th saying "I'm an everyday player or I'm out"....check it out.

Already an interesting offseason in LA.

2008-10-16 20:15:33
49.   Preston Bannard
Keith Law joked in his chat today that Jones and Pierre have negative trade value - I honestly can't see any trade with either of them that brings back anything remotely useful, even if we're eating their entire contracts. These are sunk costs, and we just have to hope that they can contribute positively in some way, because they currently have essentially zero worth on the market.

As for Pierre wanting to be traded, the Dodgers can do just what the Red Sox did with Manny a couple years back - stick him on waivers, where no one will touch him with a ten foot pole; maybe that will clue him into the fact that he's not going to be a starter for the life of his contract on any team that's likely to win 70 games.

If Jones is a clubhouse cancer, then we might as well cut him, but I'd rather at least give him a shot to win a job next spring, just in case he decides to show up in shape.

2008-10-16 20:15:46
50.   jujibee
46. There is no way that trade happens unless we further deplete our minor league system or pay them money to take Pierre. This team needs to go in one of 2 directions. 1, sign Manny and plug in some chips around him or 2, forget Manny and sign/trade players that are average or a little better offensively but great defensively and concentrate on pitching. The problem is taht Ned has hamstrung this team with bad contracts. While I was for the Jones signing, the Schmidt and Pierre additions I was against. That money could be used this offseason, though I'm sure Ned would've exhausted those funds into contracts that we'd still be dealing with.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-16 20:16:25
51.   bhsportsguy
From ESPN.com on Peavy being on the trade table.

San Diego, too, is said to be willing to deal with the rival Dodgers, who could conceivably have some excellent young players to dangle, like outfielder Matt Kemp and pitchers Clayton Kershaw and James McDonald. The Padres intended to wait until the Dodgers completed their playoff run before engaging in serious talks with L.A.

2008-10-16 20:16:35
52.   rayg
In that Hernandez article, I think he says that Jones stays in contact witn Furcal and Berroa....mentioned another player who I forget at teh moment.
2008-10-16 20:18:47
53.   fanerman
49 We should want to get rid of Pierre, especially if we don't have to pay his salary. We could use the money to help sign an expensive free agent.

I'd have to think there's some team that would want Pierre for next to nothing except having to pay his salary. Right?

2008-10-16 20:20:03
54.   Jon Weisman
51 - BH, BH ....
2008-10-16 20:21:14
55.   bhsportsguy
53 But right now, the Dodgers have no incentive to deal him unless they know that they have at least 4 outfielders better than him on the roster.
2008-10-16 20:23:18
56.   bhsportsguy
54 Sources: Pads gauging interest in Peavy, whose contract runs through 2013

http://tinyurl.com/busterpeavy

2008-10-16 20:24:10
57.   rayg
BH-55. I disagree...if they somehow find someone who will take on all, or a portion, of his salary, that gives Ned more money to spend on CC/Peavy/Furcal....etc.
2008-10-16 20:24:36
58.   Preston Bannard
53 I don't think there's anyone out there that's interested in paying $27 million over 3 years for a player that's currently a 4th outfielder, at best, and is only going to further regress in the next 3 years. I think we'll have to pay at least 2/3 of that to get rid of him, and that's without getting anything in return.
2008-10-16 20:26:35
59.   rayg
58-Think Cincy-they need a leadoff hitter and CFer-they traded Dunn and Griffey and shouldn't put Bruce is CF.
2008-10-16 20:28:02
60.   Dave60
Sometime around June, someone here suggested re-signing Furcal and moving him to centerfield. The idea has increasingly captivated me. I live 400 miles to the north so can't follow every Dodger story. Has that idea gained any traction?

If so, I'd be fine with Manny going elsewhere. He's great at honeymoons, but bad at marriages. Let's call it a good 2-1/2 months and move on.

With the outfield, first, and catcher set, let's give DeWitt second. I'm not sure he's the solution there, but he's earned 300 at-bats to prove himself. Shortstop can be up for grabs between Hu and DeJesus.

Which leaves third base. I'd be okay with Blake, but think we can do just as well for fewer dollars. Florida doesn't seem interested in giving Dallas McPherson a chance. Plug him in at third and seem if he can do an Adam Dunn inpersonation?

2008-10-16 20:28:53
61.   Jon Weisman
I wasn't looking for the link. Quoting an article that suggests the Dodgers might even consider trading Kershaw ... I thought we knew better.
2008-10-16 20:29:25
62.   Jon Weisman
60 - We need infielders more than outfielders.
2008-10-16 20:30:28
63.   bhsportsguy
61 I think it is more like Olney (or his sources) tossing out names.
2008-10-16 20:31:52
64.   Dave60
62 Agreed. That scenario would assume that at least Jones and perhaps Pierre also would go away. But we need a solution that keep Furcal's back healthy.
2008-10-16 20:31:53
65.   Louis in SF
42

I am in complete agreement of addition by subtraction and a trade like that: getting Igawa might be the type of trade that will work. The problem I see that even paying lots of Jones salary, I still don't know how attractive he will be on the market. Would the Yankees entertain a Jones for Cano deal?

2008-10-16 20:31:53
66.   rayg
how about putting Furcal at 2b, he played there in the Dominican league last winter, and trading for JJ Hardy?
2008-10-16 20:32:13
67.   Jon Weisman
63 - Yeah - in other words, it's nonsense.
2008-10-16 20:33:09
68.   jujibee
I find it amusing that articles still mention Kemp, McDonald, and Kershaw in the same breath as Kennedy, Hughes, and Cabrera, thought the later seemed to be referencing fallen prospects, but it still wasn't clear.
2008-10-16 20:34:09
69.   LogikReader
20

Ohhhhhhhhh NOOO!

2008-10-16 20:34:12
70.   fordprefect
Hold on a second, people, we got a game in Fenway.
2008-10-16 20:38:17
71.   fanerman
69 22 This is partly my fault...
2008-10-16 20:39:17
72.   milkshakeballa
I'm wondering i anyone else is in agreement with me.....

James MacDonald has a #1 type ceiling. Maybe not the potential of Kershaw (left-handed) but almost as high of ceiling as Bills. The guy's stuff is nasty. H can get it up to 94-95 with a nice curve and a filthy change. I do NOT want to see MacDonald traded.

2008-10-16 20:40:45
73.   bhsportsguy
72 From what I saw last night, he lacks a blazing fastball and I don't know if his change up is an out pitch.

He's good but he's not a No. 1.

2008-10-16 20:46:49
74.   KG16
I think Billingsly, Kershaw, and MacDonald are the untouchables on the pitching staff. In the line up, I'd say Ethier, Martin, Kemp. Everyone else would be tradeable, if the right deal came along. So, Onley's sources can talk all they want, as long as they don't talk is an audible whisper near Ned's ear.
2008-10-16 20:47:24
75.   KG16
I hate Boston sports.
2008-10-16 20:49:13
76.   KG16
hmmm, Khalil Greene might be included in a Peavy trade. I am now a bit more interested. Not Kershaw-MacDonald-Kershaw interested, but interested.
2008-10-16 20:49:33
77.   LoneStar7
I don't believe what I'm seeing, hopefully the Rays really put a dagger into beantown's heart by raking one outta here right now...
2008-10-16 20:49:48
78.   Alex41592
Journey lives on at Fenway.
2008-10-16 20:50:37
79.   kinbote
So . . . the offseason is 24 hours and we're already awash in rumors. My takeaway:

1. Manny's gone
2. Furcal's coming back
3. DeWitt's moving back to 3b

Right now, I'm interested in seeing a DeJesus/Hu/Abreu battle for 2b this spring. I'd also like to see the Dodgers consider converting Schmidt to a short reliever.

I really don't care about Jones/Pierre. Put 'em on the depth chart as our Cf platoon [while knowing Repko/Paul might well be more productive] and say a little prayer for Ned.

Among the questions I want to see addressed soon is what we plan on doing with Elbert. Will he be groomed as a reliever or a starter (in which case he'll likely need more seasoning)?

2008-10-16 20:52:31
80.   milkshakeballa
Agree. I'm interested in seeing what they do with Elbert. I'm sure Logan will have the say in that so I do trust what they end up deciding on.
2008-10-16 20:53:10
81.   kinbote
72 It would be a huge surprise is he's ever a #1. We only need him to be a #3, as in: Bills/Kershaw/McDonald.
2008-10-16 20:54:49
82.   Dave60
74 With the DePodesta/Weisman caveat from above that no player should truly be considered untouchable, I agree with your list, with the possible exception of Ethier. I love his game and hope he remains a Dodger for years, but think that other teams could overvalue him, in which case he should be moved.

I just don't think that he'll get much better than he is today, but wouldn't be surprised if another team thinks that there is another possible 10-15% growth.

2008-10-16 20:56:27
83.   KG16
82 - I remain committed to the position I staked out earlier this year: the Dodgers will rue the day they trade Ethier. Rue, I say.
2008-10-16 20:57:14
84.   kinbote
80 For whatever reason, Torre didn't seem to trust Beimel this year. I see us adding an "experienced" lefty reliever and sending Elbert back to the minors to work on his starter's arsenal.
2008-10-16 20:58:33
85.   kinbote
83 I spent some lovely nights on Rue Ethier . . .
2008-10-16 21:00:30
86.   fanerman
LogikReader!!!
2008-10-16 21:00:40
87.   milkshakeballa
Obviously Mac would be the #3 to Kersh and Bills....but he doesn't have #3 type stuff. I think he has 1.5 type stuff, maybe more towards the #2....but I think the Dodgers will regret if they ever trade him. And I quiver in fear at the thought of what little Colletti would get in an unproven pitcher like MacDonald...I don't think he would get near the value MacDonald has.

MacDonald can get it up to 94 or 95, but is consistant at 91/92. I feel with a little more work, his changeup can easily be his outpitch. The nastiest pitch I have seen a Dodger throw this year besides Kershaw's curveball is MacDonald's very first pitch in Philly against Burrell, a 74 mph changeup. Just FILTHY.

2008-10-16 21:02:28
88.   KG16
sometimes, i like to believe that I'm going to wake up in the morning and it's going to be October 17, 2004, and Jorge Posada throws out Dave Roberts. and then I am happy for a brief moment, then I remember it's still 2008, and am very sad.
2008-10-16 21:05:21
89.   KG16
i do love it when Ortiz tries to bunt down the third base line, though.
2008-10-16 21:08:29
90.   KG16
player's union filing a grievance against the clubs for acting in concert on Bonds.

http://tinyurl.com/5g6k24

Problem is, with the indictment and bad PR, every team in the league had a legit reason to not sign Bonds.

2008-10-16 21:13:03
91.   jujibee
MacDonald is a #3 pitcher on a good team right now. I like his stuff and how he attacks hitters, but he isn't anything more than a #3 on this club. He might become something better seeing how he's only been pitching for 2-3 years after converting from an outfielder...time will tell. But I was quite impressed with him in the playoffs this year, moreso than what I saw of him in the minors.
2008-10-16 21:16:37
92.   Indiana Jon
Red Sox win, unbelievable.
2008-10-16 21:16:41
93.   KG16
The Tampa Bay Rays are officially on notice.
2008-10-16 21:19:16
94.   JRSarno
Damn, down 7 runs and the BoSox show some crazy resolve. I wish we had conjured some of that yesterday, down by only 5! Youth v. Experience.
2008-10-16 21:19:21
95.   rayg
79-I like the idea of Schmidt in the bullpen also.
2008-10-16 21:20:22
96.   Alex41592
Rays were 7 outs from the World Series with a 7 run lead.
2008-10-16 21:23:01
97.   njr
What a game. Those Red Sox do seem to have an eerie ability to come back year after year just when you think they're out of it.

This was the kind of playoff game I was hoping to see the Dodgers be a part of and win. Oh well, maybe in a few years...

2008-10-16 21:23:51
98.   Indiana Jon
79 Wow, that's a depressing list. I would prefer this one.

1. Manny's coming back
2. Furcal's gone
3. Laroche's moving back to LA

2008-10-16 21:23:58
99.   LogikReader
86

I know... I know... I bury my head in shame... I can't believe it... I jinxed the game!

2008-10-16 21:24:23
100.   milkshakeballa
How come JD Drew didn't play like this with the Dodgers?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-16 21:25:23
101.   Indiana Jon
94 ,96 ,97

Of course it also just had to be J.D. Drew.

2008-10-16 21:30:19
102.   jujibee
Ned's thought of the day,

If I would've been man enough to give Drew a nice extension with a little more money per year, I would have an outfield of Kemp, Ethier and Drew. I also wouldn't have to deal with the freak out mistake of Pierre's contract and Jones' signing in an attempt rectify my first mistake. Damn! Damn! Damn!

2008-10-16 21:33:32
103.   rayg
98-here's my list

1-pierre's gone
2-andruw's gone
3-manny signs
4-furcal signs
5-trade for peavy/sign CC
6-trade for beltre

not necessarily in that order, but the first two allow the next 3-4.

2008-10-16 21:34:18
104.   Jon Weisman
100 - Drew had singles and homers and RBI with the Dodgers lots of times. People just didn't choose to care.
2008-10-16 21:35:50
105.   jujibee
104. I did, for what it's worth.
2008-10-16 21:39:30
106.   JRSarno
100, 104 - Also, because he's hitting them in a determinative NLCS situation, they are gaining a bit more attention. Just a thought.
2008-10-16 21:40:17
107.   JRSarno
ALCS, that is. Instead, my lasting memory is him running into Kent against the Mets. Ugh.
2008-10-16 21:40:43
108.   Megaballs
I'm back to DT. After registering my disappointment early August saying no .500 team should ever mortgage the future, even for Manny and Blake, I backed off of the site. I remember Toycannon saying how much he loved Manny's sweet swing and was going to enjoy the rest of the season. I backed off with Andy's injury, and then the Dodgers started winning. So I stayed away even from reading. Sacrifice.

Like I said at that time, the party's now over. Here's the hangover. Manny comes back only if HE feels like it. Dewitt's great but he's not a prototypical thumper 3b. Santana's gone as he turns 23. May's not the answer at backup C. Is Ellis? The kids are approaching arby and not a one of 'em are signed L-Term.

And worst of all, Ned saved his job and is now a lame duck 2009 GM.

I look forward to picking up the great insight on this awesome source of Dodger info. Thanks in advance.

Heres hoping 150-1 pays off!

2008-10-16 21:43:18
109.   Jon Weisman
Great Office tonight.
2008-10-16 21:43:58
110.   LogikReader
109

Hear Hear!

2008-10-16 21:44:12
111.   John Hale
Balfour gets Kotsay to fly out, two outs, one on
0.7 % win expectancy according to fangraphs

1 in 142 chance of coming back...

thats like being down ten and scoring the last eleven points in an NCAA tourney game.

2008-10-16 21:46:40
112.   ryu
Balfour as a pitcher's last name? Man.

One letter away from BallFour.

2008-10-16 21:50:27
113.   Eric Stephen
I fully endorse the headline currently on ESPN.com.
2008-10-16 21:57:32
114.   Jacob Burch
113 All it did was bring us painful Matt Stairs misery. Greg Brock has it right.

/depressed

2008-10-16 21:58:00
115.   Eric Stephen
I finally got around to looking up what Spam musubi was. Doesn't look half bad at all.
2008-10-16 21:58:12
116.   El Lay Dave
111 142:1 > 150:1 eh? At least the Rays are playing the remainder at home, not on the road like the '86 Angels.
2008-10-16 22:00:05
117.   Eric Stephen
114
I was this close to making a Bill Brasky reference this morning, so I fully endorse and appreciate your post earlier.

Also, remember, Matt "Up" Stairs.

That should stick in your head for 20+ years.

2008-10-16 22:00:41
118.   El Lay Dave
Someone earlier linked Diamond Leung's blog on Pierre.

Today was the day for the Dodgers to clean out their lockers, and as Juan Pierre boxed up his things, he wasn't in the mood to talk.

I first read that as "boxed up his rings".

2008-10-16 22:03:01
119.   El Lay Dave
117 Matt Stairs is the sort of player I'd be happy for if he had done it against anyone but the Dodgers. Instead he hangs on my virtual wall of infamy with Joe Morgan, Reggie Jackson, Joe Rudi, Jack Clark, et al.
2008-10-16 22:03:07
120.   checkityahla
Okay! Here is what I want for Christmas!!!

SS Furcal
2b Orlando Hudson (free agent)
3b Blake Dewitt
1b James Lonely
C Russel Martin
RF Andre Either
LF MANNY!!!
CF Matt Kemp

Pitchers
1. CC Sabthia or Derek Lowe (please sign with us Lowe)
2. Billingsley
3. Kuroda
4. Kershaw
5. Schmidt

Here is what I hope doesn't happen

SS Furcal
2b Hu
3b Blake Dewitt
1b James Lonely
C Russel Martin
RF Andre Either
LF Matt Kemp/Repko
CF Andrew Jones/Juan Pierre

Pitchers
1. Billingsley
2. Penny
3. Kuroda
4. Kershaw
5. Schmidt

2008-10-16 22:05:17
121.   Eric Stephen
This is sort of related to the Dodgers.

Alyssa Milano = big time Dodger fan
Tony Danza = played Milano's father on "Who's the Boss?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqzlQu_6ZDk

(Courtesy of SI Hot Clicks)

2008-10-16 22:08:24
122.   LogikReader
Eric... Jason is on the air again on ESPN Radio. Hmm... no criticism of the Rays and Joe Maddon's bullpen management. Hmm, how about that?
2008-10-16 22:10:42
123.   Eric Stephen
122
My beef wasn't necessarily with Smith. It was with the reporter, but that issue is now dead to me.
2008-10-16 22:10:46
124.   LogikReader
122

I see how this works... when the Red Sox make a big comeback late, it's the Red Sox and their fans winning the game.

When it's anybody vs the Dodgers... its the Dodgers and their fans finding a way to lose.

Ok I'm back to hating ESPN. End of Diversion.

2008-10-16 22:12:25
125.   LogikReader
123

Separate issue actually. I am still a little miffed about how he slammed the Dodgers for not throwing at batters to retaliate for Meyer's junk on Friday.

The Nelson interview is just icing on the cake. Again, I'm sure this will blow over soon.

2008-10-16 22:14:28
126.   LogikReader
Oh well... it's been a good night. Man that was an incredible comeback by the Red Sox. It sure reminds me of those 90's Yankees Teams.
2008-10-16 22:31:27
127.   Eric Stephen
126
Was that your email read on the air?
2008-10-16 22:35:29
128.   bhsportsguy
127 I'll bring some spam musibi to the next DT outing.
2008-10-16 22:36:20
129.   underdog
109 Oh man. Indeed. Hats off to Greg Daniels and Aaron Shure for one of the best in ages.

My Facebook status pays small tribute to it. I thought about repeating another favorite line but it might inadvertently break rule 1.

2008-10-16 22:41:26
130.   underdog
I guess Joe Maddon's human after all. Get 'em in TB in game 6, guys.
2008-10-16 22:44:23
131.   LogikReader
126

Yep. He read my email leading into the Rob Neyer interview. What's fair is fair... :)

2008-10-16 22:46:43
132.   Jon Weisman
First deleted scene:

http://www.officetally.com/baby-shower-deleted-scenes

2008-10-16 22:47:19
133.   bhsportsguy
131 What did you say?
2008-10-16 22:51:00
134.   LogikReader
133

Basically I asked about how Joe Maddon erred with his bullpen decisions:

How [did] Joe Maddon [leave] in Wheeler for a whole inning. He had NOTHING! ...What on earth happened?

Then Jason Smith brought in Rob Neyer to help answer my question. It was a neat transition.

2008-10-16 22:55:16
135.   LogikReader
I think my biggest regret about the Rays/Sox game tonight is that I quit on it early. I should know better... when I came back, the Sox were already closing in, and it was 7-4 Rays.

I feel like the Red Sox can make any baseball game last past Midnight. All of the NLCS games started 20 minutes later and still finished a good half hour before midnight.

2008-10-16 23:00:09
136.   bhsportsguy
132 Very nice, I now want to have a Rooti Tooti breakfast.
2008-10-16 23:23:11
137.   DBrim
132 - If THAT was deleted, then you KNOW it was a good episode. This was one of the best ones.
2008-10-16 23:41:21
138.   CajunDodger
After reading all of the different scenarios, how about this one. Why not sign Mark Teixeira and simultaneously try and ship Loney for a productive infielder for either third or second. I love Loney, but Tex could be 90% of Manny without the drama.

With Tex signed, we could go after one more premier guy like Sabbathia or a lesser starter like Oliver Perez and have some change left over.

My only worry is the fact that we have so much to replace. We may have to replace Lowe, Beimel, Maddux, Kent, Garciaparra, Furcal, Manny, Bennett, Sweeney, Penny, Proctor, and Blake. Some of those guys are certainly easy to replace, but we have to replace quantity and hope that they somehow mesh as a team. This is the most intriguing offseason in recent memory.

2008-10-16 23:51:56
139.   underdog
138 Intriguing off-season indeed. And we have plenty of time to mull it over.

I know Joey will approve of your plan ;-) The thing is that is very expensive while still leaving a hole in the outfield. Unless Loney brought back a good one. Can't count on Jones to be the Jones of old. If he is, that's a bonus. Some of the bench players can be filled from youth, like Delwyn Young, Hu and other guys like that, with a couple of vets brought in.

If they don't re-sign Manny, then go for pitching and defense, and let the youth continue to improve imho. Bring in one vet FA who brings offense to the table. Sabathia, Bills, Kershaw, McDonald, Kuroda (and guys like Elbert or Stults to fill in). That's pretty solid.

Honestly, two key signings will go a long way to offset whatever losses they're going to have.

2008-10-17 00:00:20
140.   Bob Timmermann
Has anyone talked Daniel Zappala down off the ledge?

Let's just say BYU had a bad night.

2008-10-17 00:14:58
141.   DBrim
Playoff "beard" finally came off tonight. Beard's in quotes for a reason. I guess I didn't inherit my dad's Blakian genes.
2008-10-17 07:33:23
142.   DougRau
108 - "Manny comes back only if HE feels like it." Exactly. And there's really no way to tell what he's thinking especially this early. I tend to think he's gone. Blake as well. Both bum me out. It'd be a miracle if we can do something w/Jones w/o picking up the tab.

Thinking 2009 will be a stopgap to a thrilling 2010.

2008-10-17 07:37:06
143.   Daniel Zappala
140 Terrible night. But it was my wife's birthday, so I didn't watch and was spared the misery. Truthfully, I don't get that worked up about college football losses these days. Especially when the BCS system is involved.
2008-10-17 07:38:29
144.   JoeyP
The Red Sox game last night might have been the most incredible comeback I've ever seen. Down 7-0, 3-1 in the series, with 7 outs left.

Its fun watching two well run franchises play some very compelling baseball.

Plus, its easy to root for guys like Drew, Aybar, Navarro, & Edwin.

2008-10-17 07:49:52
145.   CanuckDodger
144 -- Since when do you like "Edwin?" I still remember when you -- and I don't think this is too strong a word -- hated him.
2008-10-17 08:03:39
146.   ToyCannon
87
While McDonald was dialing it up to the mid 90's for us it was in a relief role. While a starter in the minors he was topping out at 91-92 from the scouting reports I've read. I've never seen his stuff compared to a one. Ceiling would seem to be a 3 with the expectation that he is a back end rotation type. Which is still valuable but certainly tradeable depending on what is coming back.

I don't see how Peavy can be dealt without hurting the Padres or with the team making the deal hurting themselves. I see only Tampa and the Braves as competing teams who can trade an excess of young players without hurting their current makeup. If the Braves do it they are fools because that team is about to fall apart without the infusion they need from their prospects. Tampa could do it but the price should be Price/Jennings/Brignac. Then they have to answer the question is whether Peavy would even be better then Price by 2010.

2008-10-17 08:04:38
147.   ToyCannon
145
Maybe because he's no longer a Dodger.
2008-10-17 08:05:57
148.   ToyCannon
144
It was the greatest comeback I've ever seen in the postseason. Game six will be interesting. JD looked like he wanted to be anywhere else in the world rather then have to answer stupid questions from Sager.
2008-10-17 08:12:41
149.   CajunDodger
139
OK, then along that line how about this:

1. Go hard after Sabbathia/Peavy assuming the price is reasonably outrageous and not Luis Castillo or Juan Pierre outrageous.

2. Go after Orlando Hudson to shore up 2B and move DeWitt and his glove to third (I think that this would give us the best infield defense in the league)

3. Trade Pierre and get Jones in shape while monitoring him in winter ball and hope that he figures out how to find the "on" button on his treadmill.

4. Get Lowe and Furcal back.

2008-10-17 08:14:04
150.   El Lay Dave
144 Rightly or wrongly, lots of people find it hard to root for Drew.

The comeback was simply ridiculous.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-17 08:16:28
151.   Sushirabbit
I'm addicted to DT. Where the season never ends!
2008-10-17 08:18:12
152.   delias man
I hope MLB network has a nightly highlight show that will get me away from ESPN and those Baseball Tonight idiots.
2008-10-17 08:25:53
153.   ToyCannon
150
I was unhappy when we signed him, I was unhappy when he left. He is the reason we have Pierre and Jones on the payroll. I don't blame him for opting out I would have done the same. I don't blame Ned for not giving him an extension. I would not have done so. I don't blame Depo for giving him the option to leave. Without the option maybe he doesn't sign. In retrospect I'd rather have signed Beltre and not Drew but Beltre left first. When they both have Boras as an agent you know things are being orchestrated.
2008-10-17 08:26:12
154.   JoeyP
145 - I never hated Edwin Jackson. I did advocate trading him & Greg Miller when their stocks were highest.

Unlike you, I'm all for trading prospects for good players. The reason Edwin Jackson sucked on the Dodgers was bc he got hurt & his good (97-99) velocity. Its good to see him regain it & put up an ok season for the Rays. He'll have to battle Sonnanstine next year for a spot in their rotation though. I wouldnt be surprised if he becomes their closer down the road.

But, perhaps if Edwin Jackson does well, then the current GM will be less inclined to give up future prospects for middle relievers.

Trading Edwin Jackson wasnt a bad decision. Dealing him for a middle reliever like Baez was.

2008-10-17 08:26:41
155.   27indigo
152
If that were the case, I can't imagine their guys being markedly different from ESPN's guys.
2008-10-17 08:28:25
156.   delias man
155 I picture a more balanced show with no Kruk and Gammons.
2008-10-17 08:35:40
157.   El Lay Dave
153 I think one reason people generally find it harder to root for / like a Scott Boras client is that Boras' business approach makes it so baldfaced that he his clients as mercenaries for sale to the highest bidder. Sure Manny was fun while he was here, but the aftermath may not be very pleasant.

You wouldn't have extended Drew because he couldn't be counted on to stay healthy to play enough games?

2008-10-17 08:45:29
158.   kngoworld
I would tell Mr. Boras to find us a place we could dump J. Pierre without having to pay any of his salary, if he could do that, we would match the largest salary offer Manny gets and he could stay in L.A. were he would receive the largest endorsement deals. Works out for everyone, and we let Boras do what Ned can't or is afraid of.
2008-10-17 08:46:10
159.   blue22
149 - I agree with some of your ideas, but your whole plan seems expensive.

CC - $20M
O-dog - $12M
Subsidized outgoing Pierre - $5M
Lowe - $12M
Furcal - $10M

2008-10-17 08:47:55
160.   D4P
I think one reason people generally find it harder to root for / like a Scott Boras client is that Boras' business approach makes it so baldfaced that he his clients as mercenaries for sale to the highest bidder

When I was a kid, I never thought about salaries or the possibility that players (especially those on my team) were playing primarily for the money. Players on "my team" were heroes, who were just as loyal to my team as I was.

I don't think that way anymore. As far as I'm concerned, they're all doing it for the money, and don't really care much about the team or being loyal to it (especially if being loyal means making less money).

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a system where players go to the highest bidder, but it definitely makes me care about them a lot less.

2008-10-17 08:52:42
161.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-10-17 08:52:58
162.   CanuckDodger
154 -- But you are being coy about WHY you wanted to trade Jackson and Miller. I remember you wanting to get rid of Jackson and Miller on the grounds that they were high school draftees, and Moneyball proved -- you asserted, back then -- that such pitchers end up being worthless.

Not that you were alone in thinking that way about high school pitchers -- back then. When I think about baseball ideas in the last five years, I can not think of any area of thinking that has so dramatically reversed itself than sabermetricians' condemnation of high school pitchers. Honestly, reading a Baseball Prospectus annual from just a few years ago (2002, 2003) makes me think of reading pre-1960's Southern politicians' speeches on the subject of race relations. A tune can change really abruptly.

2008-10-17 09:25:22
163.   JoeyP
Well, Jackson & Miller did end up getting hurt (since they had a longer path to the majors) than their college counterparts.

I havent changed my feeling that taking high school pitching is risky. In the end, Miller did prove worthless & Jackson had to battle injuries to get where he's at.

No doubt, the Dodgers would have been better off trading both for something good, not middle relief.

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