And then there was the movie with Joe Namath (and Ann-Margret!). Nothing epic about this one, but the scene where Namath makes a sandwich while pushing a cart around a supermarket did seem pretty funny at the time.

280 - last thread

Wasn't offense down in the majors as a whole this year?

They'll be rocking at the house of blue light.

Dodger OPS+
2007: 93
2008: 95

Runs/Gm
2007: 4.54, 96.4% of lg (lg 4.71)
2008: 4.32, 95.2% of lg (lg 4.54)

2 - certainly this was true for the league, 4.54 R/G in 2008 vs. 4.71 R/G in 2007.

Even with the leaguewide trends, the fundamentals of this offense were not strong.

Runs/Game
2007 - 10th
2008 - 13th

OPS
2007 -  9th
2008 - 11th

6 - Rule 5?

7 Oh that was so subtle.

LAT'd from last thread

I'd hate to say this, but Casey Blake could be as good as Casey Blake. I just hope we dont go after Joe Crede. Unless Joe is really good defensively, I don't see it as an upgrade.

Lowe is easy... you could get CC, or just promote Kershaw, or possibly some other guy I'm missing. I'll have to see the list of FA starters.

I think we'd survive if we landed Pat the Bat instead of Manny and instead went after CC. I'm a huge Pat Burrell Fan. Just because. You could possibly shoot the moon and go for Adam Dunn... maybe.

Kent/Loney/Kemp/Martin were all very good in 2007, in 2008 they weren't. Why are we surprised the offense was lower in 2008 then 2007?

8 - LOL

Personally, Pat the Bat and CC would make me pretty happy, especially since I'm assuming worse this off-season

I still want to know why Blake DeWitt is a nobody when he was much better then Casey Blake during the time that one played 2nd and the other played 3rd? Casey had Dodger OPS+ of 97 while manning 3rd. Blake Dewitt had an OPS of 910 while manning 2nd base.

Does anyone know of a site where you can view teams' revenues listed?

9 - I agree with your LATed post as well as your original post--Casey Blake could be as good as Casey Blake

At this point I have no idea of who will be playing LF next season. I'm pretty sure that whatever AL team misses out on Tex will go after Manny with a 5 year deal.

The new AllState commercial is...weird.

Speaking of Cerrano/Palmer, whatever happened to "The Unit"? I'd like to see Dennis Haysbert's triumphant return to TV.

I'd like to see him retire a Dodger. But if we have seen the last of Manny, I'd like to dedicate this song to him:

"You Showed Me" by The Turtles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANPGyzmgvk4

17 - its on CBS - Sunday nights. This season has been pretty good so far.

An infield of Loney, Abreu, DeWitt, and Hu would be a great defensive infield especially at first base. Kemp and Ethier are solid in the outfield and Martin will rebound to be a great defensive catcher. Just need a left fielder.

20

I think Regfairfield insinuated that we might be best served trying to go for a defensive/pitching style team this off-season, and I'm beginning to think he's right. Unless a dramatic trade happens or one of our young players turns into a Pujols-level star, I think the offense is going to be very average again next year no matter what happens.

Is "very average" worse than "average"...?

According to THT, Hu was 2nd in the NL in Revised Zone Rating behind Tulowitszki (min 200 innings). Tejada and Berroa come up 3 and 4 though, so I think this thing is broke.

if it's me, and the price of Jake Peavy is Matt Kemp, its a done deal and we have a #1 starter...

after watching him all season, but my gut tells me that right now we can sell high on him...

then with a #1 in place, spend the money on Manny for 4 years, put DeWitt at third and DeJesus or Abreu at second, Furcal with incentives at SS, and go from there

but what do I know...

There's no way the Padres would accept only Kemp in return for Peavy.

from what I have heard, they want one of the big 4 kids...he is the one I'd give up as the centerpiece of the deal

Who are the big 4 kids: Kemp, Kershaw, ...?

A reply to scareduck, 152, last thread:

152 - I am trying to find the causal connection between the state of the Dodgers following the Manny trade and how we are purportedly (as you say) in a "worse" situation RIGHT NOW, as a result thereof. For example, you indicated that we're worse-off in terms of having a void at third base and second base. Granted, we lost Andy LaRoche as a result of the Manny trade. But we have DeWitt ready to play 3B if we don't resign Blake, and although DeWitt was a double-play monster of late, he exceeded all expectations and should improve his hitting with Mattingly in the mix. As far as 2B is concerned, Kent is - and was - obviously done as a result of his expired contract, so the void left at second base doesn't seem to have any logical relationship to the Manny trade. Also, I don't understand how our "superfluous and bad outfielders on expensive contracts" have any relationship to the Manny trade, considering that the "superfluous" contracts that come to mind are Jones' and Pierre's -- both of which were seemingly obvious liabilities that were apparent prior to Manny's arrival. Before Manny's arrival, we already had an overweight Jones, and an unhappy Pierre, so I don't see that situation becoming particularly exacerbated once Manny arrived (in fact, it shoved Pierre and Jones into the periphery, where they deserved to be). And then, finally, with respect to Loney being "serviceable" at 1st base... again, how is that implicated adversely as a result of the Manny trade? If Loney is only "serviceable" and not presumably capable of higher caliber play, then it would seem to me, that is an unfortunate, perceived deficiency inherent to Loney, not a consequence of the Manny trade. Anyway, I just don't get the sweeping assertion that was made. IMO, I think we're actually somewhat better off as an organization AFTER the Manny trade (even if he doesn't return in '09) for a couple of reasons. First, our young players learned from one of the best hitters ever. That's gotta mean something (although I guess we can scientifically debate whether the kids truly learned anything from him by means of osmosis, and/or whether their exposure to his singular abilities has indeed made them objectively more disciplined at the plate). Second, and perhaps most importantly, the commonweal of Dodger fans are now going to demand a continuance of this winning culture, which SHOULD (if we take management at their word) fuel management to pursue big name FA assets, such as Sabathia. As I think you intimated ultimately, it's very much a "wait-and-see" process. Hard to define the post-Manny epoch only days after Game 5.

Isn't Hoffman retiring? can't we convince them to take Broxton and a couple of prospects for Peavy?

Like I said the other day: Kemp, Ethier, Martin, Billingsly, Kershaw, and MacDonald should be off limits. Everyone else is movable, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, what's the thoughts around here on getting Peavy and Greene? Something the original article floated.

I hope Jay Jaffe doesn't mind but I am going to lift his last two paragraphs from his BP Premium content wrap up of the NLCS and last night's thriller in Fenway.

In the meantime, this Dodger fan would like simply to say thank you and farewell to the exciting and occasionally frustrating club that provided such a thrilling joyride over the past two and a half months after so much disappointment prior. Having watched Ramirez star in so many installments of those aforementioned Nightmare on Lansdowne flicks, it was refreshing to sit back (or, more often, bolt upright) and appreciate his tremendous gifts as a hitter, even if he did shoot a man in Boston just to watch him die, or whatever crimes it was that the mainstream media would have had you believe he committed to grease his skids out of Beantown.

Furthermore, it was a gas to watch the Dodgers' highly-touted young nucleus, which bore such harsh criticism for their late-2007 fade, shed some baggage by helping to capture the NL West flag and then to roll past the heavily-favored Cubs in the first round. If Kemp, Martin, Billingsley, Ethier, Clayton Kershaw, Hong-Chih Kuo, James Loney, Jonathan Broxton, Cory Wade, et al weren't good enough to be National League champions yet, they're still on the sunny side of 27, and time is on their side. It's been 20 years since the Dodgers were such fun, and I already can't wait for the next one to start.

Wait wait wait, so we have had like 400 comments on Trade Loney Thoughts but I did not see any on "JP Requests Trade"?

"The team has gone in a different direction since it signed him. He has no hard feelings toward anybody. But his preference would be a trade to a team with more playing time than he currently gets. He'll drop any no-trade clause he has to make that happen. Maybe there's a better fit." - his agent

http://tinyurl.com/juan4HOF

31 That was so yesterday.

31 - Trading Loney is controversial. Trading Pierre is something that quite a few people want to see. I don't think it happens unless we eat salary, but if we can get a prospect or two for him I think it's worth it.

28 - it amazes me how many people have, of late, come down with the Ned Colletti disease of being unable to tell a good player from a bad one, or in this case, a good player from a better one, especially when it comes to finding talent at third base and particularly when it means throwing somebody overboard to get MANNY! LaRoche sported power throughout his minor league career that DeWitt could only dream of, slugging over .500 in three different leagues. Does that mean he'll do that in the majors? Of course we don't know. But those willing to send him to the sharks for two months of MANNY! are going to have a lot of explaining to do when third base is manned by ... who? DeWitt? The revolving door at third that most teams have will once more be a problem for the Dodgers.

As to Loney, I mentioned him in the context of other people tussling over his status on the club; his relationship to Manny is only that of being an obvious place for improvement.

First, our young players learned from one of the best hitters ever. That's gotta mean something (although I guess we can scientifically debate whether the kids truly learned anything from him by means of osmosis, and/or whether their exposure to his singular abilities has indeed made them objectively more disciplined at the plate).

Or, we could just as easily chalk it up to learning as they age. This happens. But if this was so valuable a lesson, why did they get all but skunked in the NLCS? I'm not saying they didn't learn anything from it, but it would be pretty hard to prove it. Similarly, do we credit Greg Maddux for any improvement on the Dodgers staff while he was here? This treads rather quickly into the same "veteran presence" territory that Nomar and Kent were supposed to provide.

Second, and perhaps most importantly, the commonweal of Dodger fans are now going to demand a continuance of this winning culture, which SHOULD (if we take management at their word) fuel management to pursue big name FA assets, such as Sabathia.

And if C.C.'s arm falls off in the first year of his contract, then what? Point being, people understand the risks associated with young players; they don't all grow up to be Roger Clemens or Manny Ramirez. But people fail to grapple with the risks inherent in free agents.

I heard this same chant back when the Dodgers signed Kevin Brown. It wasn't especially effective then, and if the only thing the Dodgers get from unloading their best positional prospect (at a position of need, no less!) is two months worth of MANNY!, division and NLDS titles, I don't find that very satisfying.

If Manny leaves for richer pastures, Dodger fans will be singing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG9LZvKDEZ0

My beef with LaRoche isnt so much his ability as much as his durability. He reminds me of guys like Rocco Baldelli and Kerry Wood. The 'if they can only stay healthy' guys sometimes never do.

Granted these guys aren't the best exemplars but you catch my drift.

34 is two months worth of MANNY!, division and NLDS titles, I don't find that very satisfying.

And at the risk of starting to spin your wheels, you'll have to come to accept that you're in the vast minority of that opinion.

My only gripe over all of this (and this isn't necessarily directed at you Rob, as you've done a great job of saying we have no clue how LaRoche will do) is that if NedCo, for once, made a good decision in player evaluation and LaRoche does end up doing worse than whoever we man at the "revolving hot corner," would any of the pessimists be willing to say it was good evaluation, or just dumb luck?

Office deleted scene #2

http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/video/clips/baby-shower-clip-two/771802/

And that wasn't meant to be a personal attack--you have done some of the best job of being a realist instead of a abrudt pessimist over the last two days. I just sort of get sick of posts that suggest people who actually maybe had a ton of fun over the last two months are either idiots or unwilling to be critical.

Wow, that song dates to 1924 as See See Rider. Few songs see that kind of longevity.

And I'm with Jay Jaffe -- it was great to see the Dodgers beat the Cubs, with their homegrown players coming through so well. That's the memory I want to hold onto for this season.

38
I still keep laughing at the line (not from the deleted scene):

"That must have looked like the tide at Omaha Beach."

41
I think this from the Griddle is funny:

Candidates to replace Sveum include Buck Showalter, Bob Brenly, Jim Tracy, Ken Macha, Grady Little, and Davey Johnson

I'm glad the Dodgers would never hire any of those...oh wait...

ESPN bottom line is saying that Peavy has okayed deals to the Cardinals, Astros, Dodgers, Braves, and Cubs. Also says that the Padres are "reaching out to other teams". Dodgers probably have the best players to offer of those teams, but would either team really be willing to make a deal within the division? Especially with the unbalanced schedule?

Sabathia - No!

Manny - Yes

Ode to the Dodgers ala CC&R
"Let the Midnight Special shine a light on me"!

is two months worth of MANNY!, division and NLDS titles, I don't find that very satisfying.

But don't forget that this also meant Ned Colletti also keeps his job so we can be mediocre in the future too!

But seriously, I'm kind of wondering if the hand injury to LaRoche was the kind of thing that could have really done long-term damage and limit his power - Nomar was a 30+ homer guy before that wrist injury, after all. His performance was easily explained by small sample size and Ned being stubborn and Joe Torre getting a fixation on DeWitt, but keep in mind, in 126 ABs in AAA, he only slugged .436 with a .294 BA. Colletti gave no consideration to the future of the team in his deals - while he was probably planning on trading LaRoche for someone crappier after acquiring Blake, he still had no intention of getting anything more than a rental.

45
Since the signing of Jones and the debacle that follwed Ned can't pass gas without the prior approval of Mr. McCourt.

In thinking of coding myself a place to put a few sports-related essays, how does amillionbutterflies.com sound to you folks? I'm picky when it comes to names.

Ned Coletti gets to keep his job next year. He doesn't get an extension, and he doesn't get free reign. Dodgers have a good chance of keeping the current front office in tact, with both Ng, White, and Watson staying on for another year.

Ned Coletti staying another year isn't the end of the world. I think Frank McCourt realizes that Ned is what we think he is. A guy who isn't cut out to be the general manager of the Dodgers, but can't fire him yet because of the the PR it would entail, and yes. Even today, that is what driving the Dodgeres, the PR fallout of any one move. Which is why they're going to offer Manny the 2nd or 3rd best offer, and then pat themselves on the back, and walk away.

It is now time to stop the mourning over losing Andy LaRoche. He didn't hit for us and he didn't hit for the Pirates. Maybe an injury explains it. I don't know. But the Dodgers will do better with anyone else at third -- DeWitt, Blake, Beltre, you name him.

Now if the team can only rid itself of Jones and Pierre. Furcal should be resigned. And McDonald, who gave up no runs in six innings of work during the regular season and several innings in the playoffs, looks like a bonafide starter for us next year. It is great to see a pitcher whose strengths are control and a nice curve.

Great song to wake up to. Here's hoping to have CC in my life every morning come 2009!

And now its time to really wake up. If Rafi is not resigned, I don't think they move JP (if that were possible). As a lead-off hitter, Joe likes the cut of his jib, and apparently doesn't see the Bison as more than a 6-7 hitter. Book it, as they say around here.

Its off-season, so Abreu talk begins anew around here. He is almost mythical to me at this point.

As a counter to the first para, for those in the know, is DeJesus an option at lead-off? And, does he display the sort of grit that Joe and Bowa admire to overcome their taste for PVLs?

47 I think it's a great name if your theme is to write essays from the point of view of a fan watching history unfold on the baseball diamond.

Hot of the press, Sheffield to say "ugly things"

http://tinyurl.com/5b8mep

47 - Do I hear 300 million?

http://tinyurl.com/6l44zx

9 One of the advantages of Crede over Blake is that Blake will be at least a Type B free agent, whereas Crede will not be, so we'd get draft picks if we let Blake go. Of course, that's a relatively minor concern, but it should still be taken into account.

By the way, our Type A and B free agents, as per http://tinyurl.com/5evgl7:
Manny - A
Kent - B
Blake - B
Furcal - B
Lowe - A
Penny - B
Maddux - B
Beimel - B

Shockingly enough, Chan Ho, Sweeney, and Nomar don't make the list.

The arguments against LaRoche sound quite a bit like the arguments against Navarro.

"He'll never hit for us"
"Dewitt is better"

At least if Laroche goes onto become an All-Star...2 months of Manny >>>> Mark Hendrickson/Toby Hall.

One of the advantages of Crede over Blake is that Blake will be at least a Type B free agent, whereas Crede will not be, so we'd get draft picks if we let Blake go.

Thats assuming the Dodgers offer him arbitration.

58 I'd be shocked if they don't offer Blake arbitration - the worst that can happen is that he accepts and we sign him to a 1 year deal for around $8 million (he made $6.1 million this year and had a solid year, so I'd guess that's about where his number would fall). Given our infield holes and the lack of good free agents at either 2nd or 3rd, I'd say that's an ideal situation. Arbitration rarely overpays in comparison to the free agent market, especially considering it's a 1 year, low risk deal.

The only player on that list who won't be offered arbitration is Kent.

49. Agree on the Andy LaRoche angst. Enough already.

On resigning Furcal: am I the only one who blames him for 2 of our NLCS game losses to Philly?

Will Andy LaRoche angst be similar to:

1) Cody Ross Remembrace Syndrome
2) Jayson Werth Wistfulness
3) Pedro Martinez Panic

61.

It's nothing compared to what we (probably) will be going through in 2009: Post Manny Stress Disorder.

If bhsportsguy is around, I want to thank him again for the game 3/5 tickets.

I got the new MacBook, and it's shortened (or at least alleviated) my mourning stage. I love this thing.

59
The only player on that list who won't be offered arbitration is Kent.

No way Penny gets offered arbitration. If they want to keep him, the club will just exercise his option for $9.25m.

I also think the chances are slim Maddux gets offered arbitration. The minimum they'd have to pay Maddux if he accepted arbitration would be $8m (max paycut is 20% for non-FA deals). If they bring Maddux back, they will eschew arbitration and just try to work out a deal from there. The only other possible suitor would be San Diego.

Kent probably won't get offered arb either, in my opinion.

61 Don't forget the Nattering Navarros of Negativity.

61 ,65
Or David Ross Revisionism
Or Milton Bradley Sorry™-ness

Prediction:
If Juan Pierre is dealt, someone will miss him. Especially if a Dodgers outfielder gets hurt.

67
Especially those of us who own Pierre t-shirts!

ILowe, Tex, and Furcal, those are the free-agents I'd pick up. I've been thinking Tex and Sabby, but between the two, I'm afraid it would tie up Frankie's wallet too badly, and he wouldn't be able to extend any of our young'ns as they get close to free-agency. Sign Lowe for 3 years, Tex for 6 or 7, Furcal for 2. Lowe and Tex will get extravagant amounts, but I think they'll perform. We have to have a power bat. Tex can be that for us for a number of years. The Dodgers are supposed to be one of the deep-pocket teams. Surely they can afford one extravagant long-term contract given the likelihood of Tex's continuing to perform throughout it's duration and what that performance will mean to the Dodgers.

I have more faith in the Dodgers ability to produce dominant pitching a few years from now. That's why I'm moving toward Lowe and a shorter contract. He may have to be offered a superior contract to tempt him to stay on the West Coast, but at least he should perform for that length of time, unlike some of our other recent contracts.

Furcal makes a solid bat at shortstop as long as he's healthy. Use Loney as bait for more MI help. Dewitt to 3rd. Oh, well. May as well keep Pierre. Perhaps give Nomar another contract as a fill-in piece. Will that make a strong enough lineup?

I could see Frankie being free-agent gunshy, however. If he weren't, I'm sure each of these contracts could be creatively backloaded to get the balance-sheet past the Jones debacle.

This is the first peep out of me since the end of the series. In general I took it pretty well and enjoyed as far as we got. I am realizing how much "the breaks" or simple luck means in a short series. A team really has to be built to get into the playoffs several times over say five years to have much chance at the big one.

That said, great pitching is one thing that somewhat voids the sentiment above. For that reason, and because in general good pitching is extremely expensive and risky through free agency, I think the Dodgers, who look to be in a good position to have some good young starters already, should really increase their effort in this area. Without dealing with the Manny question at this point, it appears that the Dodgers can have an average offensive, good defensive and economical line-up for a number of years.

67, 68

And JP-signed 8x10 photos with genuine MLB holograms.

The last time I remember USC being a 40+ point favorite they lost to the Fightin' Harbaughs at home.

USC is a 42-point favorite today at the Palouse.

If Juan Pierre is dealt, someone will miss him. Especially if a Dodgers outfielder gets hurt

Solution: get a replacement for him if he's dealt, rather than not getting a replacement for him if he's dealt. Ideally, the replacement would be cheaper and better, though just cheaper would be better than nothing.

72
Yeah, no Stanford upset is happening here.

68 - I thought it was a hair shirt?

73 - I was under the impression we already had a replacement on the roster, his family calls him Pee Wee from what I gather.

69 . Addendum: I'm not trying to pick on Loney. It's just that the monster-bat that's available happens to play first base and I think he's a pretty dependable monster-bat. I want him.

69 - Lowe wants to go back east, where the fans are more committed. Tex is probably going to re-sign with the Angels. Furcal's health the last couple of years troubles me. I know he's never been hurt before, but with a lot of guys, once they get hurt, it tends to happen much more frequently.

My take (always subject to change with the facts on the ground):

Re-sign Manny (Burrell would be plan b)
Make a play for one of: CC; Sheets; Peavy
Sign one of: O Hudson; Blake; Ellis

Kent and Nomar can ride off into sunsets. Lowe and Penny can be thanked for their time and allowed to find greener pastures. So too with Furcal.

Depending on which infielder was signed, that would put DeWitt at either second or third, and then I'd let Hu/Abreu/DeJesus compete for the job at short.

78 - as an addendum, Oliver Perez looks like an intriguing signing if Sabathia/Sheets/Peavy are unavailable. Also, if its true that the Pads would package Greene with Peavy, that opens up a few more possibilities.

79
Why would you want Greene?

There is no way we are dealing for Peavy.

79 Oliver Perez is a type-A FA. I would have to say no to that.

67 . First they'd have to overcome their Juan Pierre Giddiness.

80 - he hit 27 homeruns playing half his games in Petco last year? Besides that, I like his defense and it solves the hole at short. It would allow DeWitt to go to third and whoever doesn't get traded of the Hu/DeJesus/Abreu trifecta to compete at second.

81 - so are most of the other guys on my list. If it improves the major league roster and puts the organization in a better place than it would be otherwise, I don't see why not.

I like Rafi, bless him, but it does seem risky for a position that has some options. The Solution also gives us shopping options on getting either a 3rd or 2nd baseman. I think we got as you as we are going to get out of Casey and I could see him flagging next year. A cheap defensive oriented infield can allow us to spend money on a heavy hitting outfielder (or the Tex option) and pitching.

72 I put down a few bucks on Wash St to cover that 43 point spread at home. And I'll probably still lose. They're that bad. Still, it was too tempting to pass up. If Carroll is in a giving mood or maybe USC will just tire out late in the game and can't quite get the spread that wide... so what the heck.

83
I do not see how the shortstop position matters whether or not DeWitt goes to third. It seems that he is going there regardless.

I would rather us just stick DeJesus or Hu at short and save money.

Hitting home runs is all Greene can do. His stats are horrible otherwise. He is like the Pedro Feliz of shortstops.

Greene gets on base an awful lot less than Juan Pierre.

Oh man imagine being presented a Dodgers Pierre jersey on Holiday Day. What would I do? Smile? Freak out? Laugh? Pretend to love it. No reaction?

So that just opens the door on my holiday shopping idea list for some friends in other parts of the state. Help guys, I have one obnoxus friend for each of these cities...

A's fan
Giants fan
Padre fan

2009 Draft Day could be fun.

*Up to 3 first round picks (including #16 if we don't sign a big FA)

*Perhaps 5 sandwich picks (Manny, Lowe, Blake, Furcal, Beimel)

The draft budget obviously needs to be higher than any year during McCourt's reign.

Furcal, Hudson and Ellis are all decent options for a middle infield spot. I'd move DeWitt back to 3B, where he is much better defensively. Hu is +30 at 2B or SS. The infield defense should improve dramatically next year.

I think Furcal wants to stays in LA and he is worth the cost IF he stays healthy.

Greene's +/- ratings have really dropped in the last few years:

2006: +13 (7th in MLB)
2007: +7 (10th)
2008: -4 (21st)

14-0 USC.

93
My Time Warner guide lied to me. I was under the impression I would get the game on my FSN HD channel since at 12:30 the guide said "USC at Washington State." However, once the Texas Tech game ended, the guide switched to "Bruins Live."

I don't have FSN Prime Ticket, so I have to go to a bar to watch the stupid game. I have decided not to go.

The Padres website makes it sound like Peavy will be dealt to us or the Braves within a week.

Towers says his top focus is pitching and then middle infield help.

Not saying I'd do it, but Kershaw/McDonald/DeJesus is probably what they're looking at.

Ned was not willing to trade multiple established pieces before. There is no way he will do it with a division rival.

Does Peavy - Kershaw = McDonald + DeJesus?

Or rather, for how many years might that equation hold, before the right side ends up being greater than the left?

There's no doubt Peavy is better than Kershaw right now, and maybe always will be, but I'm not sure the gap in a few years will be greater than or equal to the sum of McDonald and DeJesus.

I'd think the Padres would do it for Hu/Elbert/McDonald. I still wouldn't do it if only because I think McDonald would be tough to replace. The 2008 Dodgers were always scrambling for a decent 5th man.

64 Oversight on my part, you're absolutely right on both Penny and Maddux not getting offered arbitration; wouldn't mind seeing Maddux back at $6 or 7 million, though, for rotation depth, as long as that money isn't preventing us from making another major deal.

I've heard rumors that the Dodgers are thinking of Penny's option in order to trade him (similarly to the Yankees and Sheffield a couple years ago). I suspect teams will be hesitant to give up prospects for him, given his injury problems this year, so we may be looking to trade disappointments with someone.

Speaking of trading disappointments, how about a JP for Eric Chavez trade? Chavez has 3 years and around $33/34 million left on his contract, has had injury problems and generally performed under expectations ever since signing a big contract 3 years ago, but he does give us more upside than Pierre and is at a position of need. Meanwhile, Oakland saves $2 or 3 million a year and has less downside, as Pierre is a much better bet to stay healthy all year.

99 A couple of problems with that. Chavez's arm is pretty much shot, I wouldn't bet Chavez to have a strong arm for the rest of his career.

Juan Pierre is the anti-thesis of a player Oakland seeks.

98 I'd do that deal in a heartbeat - we're trading a no-hit middle infield prospect, a RP prospect, and a possible #2 SP prospect for an established #1 that's controlled at a reasonable price for 4 or 5 years. With that said, I can't see the Padres pulling the trigger on that deal - I think it lacks the elite prospect they're look to get back for an elite player (and I like McDonald, but I don't think his value is quite that high).

I would look to pick up Penny's option to trade him maybe for Hank Blalock or Scott Rolen. Blalock would be the more attractive option because he is younger but both have been hit by the injury bug recently. Pierre to the Reds for Arroyo would be the other deal I would do.

100
I think you can change arm to career is shot.

Pierre for Homer Bailey. A Starting pitcher project that we can cut ties fairly easily with if it doesn't work out.

Peavy has a lifetime ERA of 3.80 outside of Petco. Oddly (at least to me), his strikeout ratio also drops quite a bit on the road.

In 2008, he had a 4.28 era away from Petco, and opponents OPSed .784. Away ERA was 4.57 in 2006.

He's certainly great, but not exactly sure he's MUCH better than Lowe. Just seems much safer going after a FA SP or offering Lowe a raise, letting McDonald compete for the #5 spot, and not losing pieces from our fragile "now" or "near future" lineup.

100 If Chavez's arm is shot to the extent that he is finished as a third baseman, then of course there's no way the Dodgers can make the deal, of course; all I noticed is that he only played in 23 games last year, so I really have no idea where his health stands, and figuring that out would be step 1 in any trade scenario.

I realize that Pierre is not the sort of player Oakland looks for, but given Chavez's contract and recent history, they aren't going to be able to get the sort of player they prefer; they have to take what they can get, just like the Dodgers will have to do with Pierre. They could save money with Pierre, and that might make it worth it.

106
A's have outfielders up the wazzoo. They have no one else to replace Chavez at third.

104 Even if we pay Pierre's contract, I can't see the Reds doing that deal; even a recently fallen prospect has significantly more value than a regressing 4th outfielder.

Somebody mentioned here that Oakland fans were slobbering for Andy LaRoche before he was traded to the Pirates.

I read someone bring up Pierre for Encarnacion. Not sure if the Reds have another 3B option, but this would seem to be a great deal for us, allowing us to keep DeWitt at 2B and filling a hole at 3rd. Even if we had to give some money on it.

Anyone know the Reds 3B situation, and if Encarnacion is available?

UCLA is not very good at tackling.

108 Cincy is one of the few teams that value speed and the traditional lead off hitter at an abnormal value. There's a team willing to overpay for Juan Pierre's services. I think Cincy is one of them.

109
Yes, they need a future third baseman.

113 Blake DeWitt for Mark Ellis?

114
Would not be good for the Dodgers, but the A's would be interested.

Pierre for Encuhnarcion would be a great trade for the Dodgers.

116
Yes, I do not even think the Reds are that dumb.

117
Probably not, but the Reds are such an obvious target for dumping Pierre that it's not even funny. Not only are they short on outfielders, but Dusty loves players that don't get on base.

Ok, some legitimate problems with Pierre for Chavez. How about Pierre for Luis Castillo - they're basically the same player, and they're both signed for 3 more years at too much money; Castillo is about $3 million a year cheaper. The Mets need some outfield help, and while Pierre wouldn't be the solution he could at least provide depth; Castillo could do the same for the Dodgers (gotta be better than Ozuna). Plus, Minaya is probably getting similar pressure to trade Castillo after his predictable disappointment this year.

By the way, I'm working on the assumption that the only real way to unload Pierre is to pick up someone else's contract mistake. I'm not 100% sure any of these is more palatable than just keeping him around as a backup.

Great punting in this Stanford/UCLA game.

Sigh.

Yeah, I would rather not trade Pierre for another bad player with a cruddy contract.

I wonder if we signed Furcal, if we could then trade Pierre and Hu to the Reds for Encarnacion? They need a SS & CF. Of course, then we'd have no legit SS if Furcal gets hurt again... unless we had Berroa signed as a back up.

Not sure I'd do it, just wondering aloud (and procrastinating getting work done!).

We'd have DeJesus to play SS if Furcal got hurt. The only problem with that is if DeJesus wouldn't be ready and able to hit major league pitching if he got called up in 2009.

There's a team willing to overpay for Juan Pierre's services.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling this isn't true; Cincy's probably as close as anyone (though I worry they've learned from the Corey Patterson debacle), but I still think the best we'll get is a partial salary dump (maybe half the remaining contract, as they did give Patterson $3 million) and a 4A player. The only way to get a current or future Major League player back will be to take a risk on someone else's bad contract.

The biggest change from this year's team to last year...

No Jeff Kent in the cubhouse. And that will be huge over the course of the 162 game season.

Without a slugging replacement, no Jeff Kent hitting will be huge.

119
I think that is the right idea. To move Pierre it will mean trading him for someone else's lousy contract. No way we trade him for a young player like Encarnacion on budget conscience teams. Maybe the Yankee's since their CF of the future turned into sour milk but not the Reds who need to count every penny.

Castillo's contract is just as lousy as Juan's but we have outfielders and at the moment we have no major league infielders. The one skill he still has is his OB skill and unlike Juan Pierre he knows his starting days are just about over. With a contract of
08:$6M, 09:$6M, 10:$6M, 11:$6M compared to Pierre at 08:$8M, 09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M we'd be saving quite a bit of money and if we need to dump Castillo after 2009 it would only cost us 12 Mill compared to 18.5.

He would only be a stopgap until DeJesus is ready to play 2nd but it is a deal I'd consider. Even with the worse BA of his career he still managed a 355 OBP which would have led the pre-Dodger Manny team other then Martin. Ethier got his up to 375 after Manny came to town.

Jeff Kent wasn't a slugger last year. Kent batted .280/.329/.418

If we were replacing the Jeff Kent of 2005-2007, we would have a difficult time, but the Jeff Kent of 2008 should be more easily replaceable.

Pierre and Bronson Arroyo have very similar contracts in terms of money owed, if we added a player like Stults or Orenduff it would seem to be a very fair deal for both.

Arroyo:
2 years/$25M (2009-10), plus 2011 club option
$2.5M signing bonus (paid 2008)
09:$9.5M, 10:$11M, 11:$11M club option ($2M buyout)

USC is winning 55-0 against WSU. Whomever took WSU and the 42 points is feeling foolish.

In its 5 Pac-10 games thus far, WSU has given up 66, 63, 28, 66, and 55+ points.

The only problem with that is if DeJesus wouldn't be ready and able to hit major league pitching if he got called up in 2009.

That is not necessarily true. Dejesus did bat close to .330 with an OBP around .420 as a 21 year old in AA. His bat could progress enough where he can hold his own in the majors in 2009 sometime.

Never in my 20+ years of following Pac 10 football have I seen us play a team as bad as Washington State. They need some sort of mandatory expansion draft where each other Pac 10 school gives them 2 players.

WSU has now given up 62 or more points in 4 of its 5 Pac-10 games.

Yahoo says "C. Forcier rushed up the middle for 13 yard gain"

I thought Forcier plays QB.

129 Arroyo has thrown 200+ innings for four straight years, with ERA+ of 100, 142, 110, and 95. Even if he is declining, he's still about a league average starter, either a 3 or 3/4. That's a lot more valuable than Pierre, even with a throw-in player. Plus the Reds need pitchers every bit as much as they need outfielders. I think this is a situation where the money matches up, but the value doesn't.

135
He is, but he has only had a couple plays and both were runs.

As I recall, when we signed Furcal 3 years ago, he took a 3 year contract specifically so that when it ended he would still be in a good position to get another large contract, as he'd still be in his prime. I think this time he probably realizes that this is his last shot at a big contract and is angling for as many years and as much total money as possible. Given the likely competition for the one potential All Star SS on the market, I'll bet it takes 4 years to sign him, maybe even 5. Personally, I'd rather take a shot at someone like Orlando Cabrera, who may be available for fewer years and less money (and has less of an injury history). The main downside is that Cabrera's actually a Type A free agent, while Furcal's a Type B.

I wonder what the Padres would realistically want for Peavy? The padres.com site says a deal could be completed within a week. If they came to us saying "Kemp and McDonald" for Peavy, I'd get really nervous about what Ned and the gang are thinking...

139
I wouldn't.

I just found this (old) Andrew Lambo interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkpkKcXKTQw

98 Aren't you basically saying we shouldn't trade for Peavy becausee 5th starters are hard to find? They are?

121 I agree that it's pretty senseless to trade Pierre for another bad contract, but we need to start somewhere. Have you ever heard of the guy that through a series of trades started with paper clip and ended up with a house?

http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/

138 I'll bet it takes 4 years to sign him (Furcal), maybe even 5
Earlier this year, I know that Furcal would have accepted 3 years/$50M. And that was before he got hurt. I think he'll take less than that now if the Dodgers offer it to him before he hits the market. After that? You never know how high a GM is, er, will go.

143 Have you ever heard of the guy who started by flipping houses and ended up with nothing but a paper clip?

Hmmm, I thought a whole bunch of you would be here for game 6. It's not ALL about the Dodgers you know.

145 I think Juan Pierre's value is closer to that of a paperclip than a house...even in this housing market.

Speaking of, where is game 6? I have it on TBS and all I'm getting are bloopers and Steve Harvey Show reruns.

What's going on? TBS isn't showing game 6???? Anyone have any clue what this is about?

148 "Technical difficulties" is what XM Radio just said. ESPN radio is broadcasting it. You'd think TBS would at least have the decency to say "technical difficulties" at the bottom of the sit-com.

The host on XM said MLB should not be playing the game right now. I tend to agree.

Go to the TBS Hot Corner and you can watch the game in progress (sans announcers):

http://tinyurl.com/5p5rh6

Finally!!! What a joke that was.

Concentrate on Manny then see what you got then take it from there.
Sounds dumb?
Well I'm not the GM.

Anyone tracking how our players are doing in the AFL?

Was hoping to get down there this year - would love to see the mystical Lambo up close

146 It's a Saturday. People go out on Saturdays. Healthy people anyway.

I'm going out

Go Rays

130 {Raises hand sheepishly} That'd be me. Ah, I only lost 40 bucks. I also won twice that on another game today. Still, knowing how terribly mismatched poor Wazzu was in that one, it was a pretty dumb bet.

Also, 146 a lot of people are over on the Griddle watching and chatting.

https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1164526.html

As for me, though, after teaching this afternoon and coffee-crashing, I need a nap. Big time.

I've only seen McDonald pitch a couple of innings but he seemed to have a lot more stuff than a #5. He may not have it all together next year but he will...I would not trade him.

I'd love to go out, but I have no one to go out with. I need more friends.

0 Along these lines:
http://tinyurl.com/5c3jrj

Anybody watching the Lakers preseason game vs FC Barcelona. This is pretty good game, even if it's just preseason.

It's also the first time I can remember the Lakers playing a European team. This good stuff between Innings of the ALCS Game 6.

162

The first sentence was a question: Anybody watching the Lakers preseason...?

My fantasyland offseason scenario: Resign Manny and Furcal, sign Sabathia and Orlando Hudson.

OF - Manny Kemp Ehier
3B - DeWitt
SS - Furcal
2B - Hudson
1B - Loney
C - Russ
SP - Sabathia Bills Kuroda Kershaq McDonald

I can dream can't I.

146 - It's not ALL about the Dodgers you know.

Um, yes, yes it is.

162 - catching the 4th quarter. FC Barcelona is a pretty good club, from what I hear, so not surprised. I'm just glad that basketball season is about to start.

Clone Manny, and regress his age to 18 years old. Sign the Manny clone to a minor leauge deal, and then rename him Zerimar Ynnam. Nobody would ever know the difference!

167 - if we're going to get into cloning, why are we aiming low with Manny?

Why not clone: Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Harman Killabrew and Ted Williams?

Just back from a whirlwind 21 day tour of China. Missed the playoffs up til now. I was able to get updates sporadically. Surprisingly, all the hotels we stayed at in China had a business center with some sort of internet access. The cost ranged anywhere from 3RMB to 20RMB per hour, the most expensive was Shanghai with a 15RMB charge per 15 minutes. I am glad the Dodgers were able to take out the Cubs and the Rays are still alive, though teetering a bit, with a huge game 7 tomorrow night. I was actually able to catch an inning of the Dodgers Game 5 fiasco vs the Phillies, the one inning I was able to view on the International ESPN channel was the one that Furcal made three errors in. I guessed I jinxed that one. The trip was great, it got off to a rough start as our flight out of LA took us to Vancouver Candada, where we caught a connecting Air Canada flight for Beijing. About halfway to Beijing a passenger got sick and they couldn't wake him up for a while. They decided to turn the plane around and make an emergency landing in Anchorage Alaska. Turns out with a little investigating, this person had too much to drink and had passed out on the plane and we all had to suffer with an extra 6 hours to our already 15 hour journey to China. Well, southern China is definitely a travellers paradise. The Yunnan province, near the Vietnam, Laos and Burma borders has some spectacular sites. Most of the area is elevated in a sub tropical area, so the weather is very mild. In Kunming I saw the Stone Forest, in Dali I brushed shoulders with the Yi and Bai minority people in their traditional clothes. In Lijiang I hiked on the 16Kft Jade Dragon Snow Mountain. Dali and Lijiang have some beautiful archeticture. Dali is known for it's marble and silver and almost every house/compound is made out of marble each with hand made traditional chinese paintings engraved in the marble. In each of the 6 major areas we visited, we had an english speaking tour guide, which helped quite a bit. One other facet of travelling in China is that each area has it's own local beer. In the south I have to say the Dali beer was the best. In Kunming, which is known as the 'Spring City' because of it's great climate, we made a trip to the Stone Forest. All I can say is wow! What a beautiful place. You will never see anything like the Stone Forest anywhere in the US. We tried to come up with a comparison, but the best we could do was some combination of Joshua Tree Natl Monument and Bryce for their odd shaped rock formations, and Zion for it's narrow slot canyons, but none could quite match it's splendor. Another highlight of the trip was the 4 hour boat ride from Guilin to Yangshou along the Li River. The odd mountain shapes were unworldly. We then took a 3 hour private bamboo boat ride (2 people per boat) down the Yulong River in Yangshou, the kind of boat you sit on where a local person you hire uses a long bamboo pole to push your small/flat bamboo boat downstream. It really felt like paradise with the odd shaped mountains, rice paddies and phoenix tail bamboo plants as the backdrop. Shanghai was a bustling cosmopolitan town. 19 million people live there, making it China's 2nd largest city. We enjoyed the view from the top of the TV Tower and the beautiful night view from the Bund and the night strol down Nanjing Road. Shanghai has a great mixture of both Western and Chinese archeticture, as it once was a western colonial business center. Must get some sleep now, the plane flight was brutal, haven't laid on a bed in over 30 hours.
vr, Xei

I think the Dodgers should make a run at Rocco Badelli. He's a FA, and shouldn't cost any draft picks.

170 - He also has an undiagnosed mystery muscle disorder. That's probably not a good investment considering how much playing time he's missed.

Probably a better link for 161 :
http://dodgereric.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/08/oh_see_c_c_sbathya.html

169 - Had to take a look at the Stone Forest myself. Quite something.

Guys, for a view, you have to scroll below the photo of Davy Crockett holding a Bison!

http://tinyurl.com/5rjl3a

168 - In the case to Ted, we could just graft, no?

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood Morning DODGER THOUGHTS!

Boy the ALCS is really getting interesting. Can you imagine how Tampa Bay fans feel today? If you thought Game 4 of our series was a punch in the gut, I wonder how it felt to be a Rays fan going through Games 5 and 6.

I get a feeling this offseason will go rather fast. I don't feel quite as worried about the Dodgers this time around. It seems obvious to me, most of the home grown guys are here to stay, whereas last year I was sure someone would trade Kemp or Ethier.

But, ironically, I feel like the team will be worse next year. Weird, huh?

---

Man I liked what I saw from the Lakers last night. Bynum has bulked up... he looks like a monster on the boards! Even Vladdie looks better on defense. I only saw the first half, but this team looks good, even without Sasha who ought to be back.

136 - I have to disagree here. Arroyo is certainly not the #2 that he propped up to be and is definitely more of a back of the rotation guy, but the value of the two are not that far off.

The Reds need pitching but not as much as they used to. They have Harang, who still has ace stuff, Cueto, Volquez, and Bailey, who still has potential. They also picked up Owings and have several others to fill out the back of the rotation. Arroyo was shopped at the deadline and is probably a good bet to get dealt this winter so they can fill some other needs.

I think we fall into the trap of undervaluing Pierre because we have several better options. However, value is really in the eye of the beholder and there are several other teams that could use him, like the Reds.

Interesting if bizarre speculation out of the Chicago Trib--Cubs make a run at Manny after swapping Soriano to the Dodgers in a bad contract exchange (Pierre/Jones/or Schmidt). Maybe Aramis R too.

http://tinyurl.com/55kczp

177

Are the Cubs so desperate they'll give both Sorioano and Aramis Ramirez to LA, just to get Manny? That doesn't make a lot of sense. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. Aramis Ramirez is a great, great hitter. Granted, he's 30, but I've seen worse.

I also don't think Chicago will just trade the two for Jones/Pierre. That would be the greatest train robbery ever! The Dodgers address all their needs simultaneously AND rid themselves of dead weight.

This assumes Manny walks and signs with the Cubs.

178

To compound this, if the trade went down, the Dodgers could just put Soriano back at 2B. Aramis/Furcal(?)/Soriano/Loney. It would be the greatest infield in the NL!!

Both of the Cubs have no-trades, so I think the reality is that it could not happen. But I'd swap any and all of our deadwood for just one of those guys if it really could take place.

Soriano can show Kemp how to handle those sliders low and away.

Oh wait...

Welcome back Xei! Glad you made it.

--

That Cubs speculation makes little sense to me, especially when it comes to the Dodgers. The Cubs will either try sign Manny, or not sign Manny, but they wouldn't try to pick up one of the Dodgers' bad contracts too, even if they're getting rid of some of their own. Does. Not. Compute.

The fate of it all rests in the re-signing of Manny.
Has he ever been DL'd for long? Has he ever had a "bad" season? Is he a superstar draw? Do we have #1 ERA but sub #10 Run production? If we don't sign Manny, does Andruw or Pierre stay? Does keeping Manny ease the loss of two prospects with potential?

Can we afford Manny?

Well letting go all expired contracts gives the Dodgers 1st year arb or less position players at C, 1B,2B,SS,3B,CF,RF...with Bills,Kershaw, McD, Broxton, Elbert, Wade, Trons, Kuo...

If there's ever a guy to blow your wad for, It's Manny Ramirez.

Juan Pierre for Luis Castillo and Nick Evans? I like this rumor!

179 and still some cash to sign CC lol...so now were looking at Raffy, Loney, aramis, alfonso, loney, kemp, dre, and druw...with a staff of CC, bills, CK, and mcdonlad.

that team would be so good there's no way this rumor can be real lol

179 , "It would be the greatest infield in the NL!!" ? a certain 2008 NL Champion says hi!

169 Welcome back, Xei. Aside from sweeping the Cubs, the other highlight of the playoffs was watching McDonald. He should be a lock for the rotation next year.

Dodger 40-Man Roster

Assuming all free agents technically are not included for now

Pitchers (16)
Billingsley, Kuroda, Kershaw, McDonald, Saito, Broxton, Kuo, Proctor, Wade, Elbert, Troncoso, Stults, Schmidt, Miller, Orenduff, Alvarez

Catchers (3)
Martin, May, Ellis

Infield (4)
Loney, DeWitt, Abreu, Hu

Outfield (6)
Kemp, Ethier, Young, Jones, Pierre, Paul

Probably Non-Tendered in Late November Rather Than Offered Arbitration (2)
Brazoban, Repko

So we're only at 31 spots right now, and 32 if the club picks up Penny's option.

The only two prospects I believe need to be added in November (to protect them from the Rule 5 draft) are Victor Garate (#28 on Canuck's list) and Javy Guerra (#20 on Baseball America's list heading into the year). Everyone else doesn't need to be added until 2009 or later. Of course, DeJesus would be added if he wins a job in the spring.

Arbitration Eligibles
Martin (Super Two)
Ethier (Super Two)
Saito (1st year arb)
Broxton (1st year arb)
Proctor (2nd year arb)
Brazoban (2nd year arb)*
Repko (2nd year arb)*

*Both Brazoban and Repko are likely to be non-tendered (not offered arbitration) in November because both are out of options and are long shots to make the big club next season anyway. Speaking of out of options...

2009 Dodgers Out of Options
Brazoban
Repko
Kuo
Young
Greg Miller

Miller looks to be a long shot to make the club in the spring, especially given his lack of control. The bullpen is pretty set right now with 7 guys (Saito, Broxton, Kuo, Wade, Proctor, Elbert & Troncoso) so it would be tough for Miller to break through. Then again, if Beimel signs elsewhere, the spring may feature a competition for the other lefty spot between Elbert & Miller.

This is shaping up to be one of the most exciting offseasons in recent memory. I contend the Dodgers can actually afford both Manny and CC, but the next 8 weeks or so will determine how that plays out. I just hope the press conference goes over better than the last time the club announced the signing of both a pitcher and an outfielder:

http://tinyurl.com/5zugxg

The Rams are leading America's Team 21-7 late in the first quarter.

189
Jim Haslett = relative miracle worker!

The key question this off-season is whether McCourt was really cash-strapped, or just unwilling to led Ned spend it. If the latter, then I believe that either Manny will be back or CC will be a Dodger. But if the former, then a swap for Peavy seems the more likely scenario. I really worry about what Ned thought of Kemp's Ks.

Among all types of GMs, I would think the Padres's type would be least excited about Kemp. I would think he'd appeal more to GMs who focus on raw talent, tools, athleticism, etc. than to GMs who focus on patience, power, getting on base, etc.

NPUT

Mark ELlis close to re-upping with the Athletics.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3651897