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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Farewell, Morning Briefing
2008-10-21 10:21
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Morning Briefing, the lighthearted creation of late Times staffer Harley Tinkham that has greeted readers of the paper's sports section almost my entire life, is an apparent casualty of the redesign that was unveiled today. Seems a shame, but I guess time marches on ...

As for the redesign itself - it's more nondescript than I expected, but it seems to accentuate the more minimalist Times we've had to get used to.

Comments (407)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-21 10:28:44
1.   bhsportsguy
Morning Briefing, Notes on a Scorecard, Larry King's column.

Okay, so I will miss 2 out of 3.

2008-10-21 10:29:19
2.   ToyCannon
If the writers stay the same who will care if they redesign the paper?
2008-10-21 10:30:53
3.   ToyCannon
Anyone heard what Bobby Abreu is asking for?
2008-10-21 10:31:59
4.   underdog
I believe this was a printing error. The Times actually meant to get rid of the columns called "TJ Simers" and "Bill Plaschke" but cut out Morning Briefing instead. Hopefully this will be corrected in future editions. The Times regrets the error.
2008-10-21 10:32:34
5.   ToyCannon
1
Did you get my message?
2008-10-21 10:35:11
6.   Tripon
Continuing the Andruw Jones conversation, I not sure he was ever really interested in getting in shape. He claimed bad knees for his problems, but it took a heavy amount of convincing from both NedCo and Torre to force him to have surgery. And then he wouldn't let himself rehab at triple-A to get healthy. He constantly rushed himself when everyone knew he wasn't 100%. He spent another month producing little at the major league level before he 'accepted' another minor league rehab assignment. And then he got called up in Sept and still wasn't right.

Part of it is the dodgers enabling a guy who just wasn't right for some reason, but part of it is Andruw Jones just not getting it all year and thinking he can play on his limited ability this year.

2008-10-21 10:37:42
7.   El Lay Dave
4 When the contents stink like fish, doesn't much matter what the wrapper looks like.

Are they redesigning the web pages?

The only time I handle newsprint anymore is when my 70+ parents go on vacation and I pick up their newspaper. And they take the Daily News; can't even remember the last time I read a Times article on newsprint.

2008-10-21 10:38:01
8.   OhioBlues12
54 - From the last thread. I really don't see Pierre's three years remaining as being an impediment to a deal. Arroyo and Jason Marquis would probably be suitable exchanges with teams that could use him. There is really no need for Pierre on the bench when we can use Repko in that spot. Getting a back of the rotation pitcher for that money is better than a 4th OFer.
2008-10-21 10:39:27
9.   Eric Stephen
6
He constantly rushed himself when everyone knew he wasn't 100%

I'll give Andruw a pass for July when Pierre was on the DL. The club had a legitimate shortage of OF at the time and Andruw's return was a calculated risk.

2008-10-21 10:41:23
10.   Kevin Lewis
Re: Castillo at 2b. I would much rather have Hu or Dejesus there instead of Castillo. Pierre for some sort of serviceable pitcher would be nice.
2008-10-21 10:43:16
11.   PalmdaleSteve1
6 9

Fox Sports has a blurb up.

"Report: Andruw Jones to ask Dodgers for trade

Andruw Jones has told friends that he plans to approach the Dodgers and ask them to trade him. After hiding their excitement, the Dodgers will then have to find a suitor and determine how much of the $22.1 million they still owe him that they'll have to eat. Jones' first choice would likely be to return home to the Braves. But even at a cost of $2 million, the Braves likely aren't going to be willing to accommodate this homecoming. While hitting .158 with three homers and 14 RBIs in 75 games this past season, Jones said he was bothered by a sore knee. Members of the Braves organization said that he was bothered by the same knee discomfort during his days in Atlanta. -- AtlantaBraves.com "

Jones shows up at Spring Training at his Blimp weight, Dodgers need to go after his contract for being unfit to play.

2008-10-21 10:45:45
12.   Hollywood Joe
It appears that I am one of the 5 people under 90 years old who still has the Times delivered to my home and reads the paper just about every day

I love newspapers, love the format, love the smell, love how you can carry them from the couch...to the breakfast table...to the can..to the backyard and pass it along when you are done. I love that when I wake up and walk outside something physical that I am looking forward to has been delivered for me.

I love everything about them except for the diminishing quality and losing things like the Morning Briefing

2008-10-21 10:48:35
13.   Eric Stephen
Jones is an honorary member of the Knights Who Say Knee. At this point, I'd happily trade him for a shrubbery (to accent the bullpen plant life).
2008-10-21 10:48:44
14.   JoeyP
Jones shows up at Spring Training at his Blimp weight, Dodgers need to go after his contract for being unfit to play.

I dont think MLB contracts have those sorts of clauses.

Also, he may just be done as an effective player, weight loss or not. He's been terrible for 2 years in a row. He's old in playing years (and in real years could be older than he lists, who knows).

I thought Eric Davis/Darryl Strawberry would be the worst high dollar free agent/trade OF busts in Dodger history.

Druw/Pierre are worse.

2008-10-21 10:48:45
15.   SG6
1 - you don't like "Text Messages from Press Row?" Not Malamud, but Crowe offers some tasty tidbits.

I don't miss Morning Briefing too much (I know, it's only been a day), it lost it's former charm.

2008-10-21 10:49:29
16.   El Lay Dave
8 I think you may be undervaluing pitchers like Arroyo and Marquis. Starting pitchers that can throw 180 or more innings at anything approaching league average ERAs are getting 4/40 type contracts on the open market, e.g., Carlos Silva, Kyle Lohse. Considering his home park bandbox, Arroyo has significant value and Marquis is a bargain at 3/21.

I think Repko is an AAAA OF at this point, not a 4th OF - next year is his age 28 season. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine what Pierre is at this point.

2008-10-21 10:50:23
17.   Eric Stephen
12
I usually read online, but I was solicited recently and now have the Times delivered Thursday through Sunday for a mere 75¢ per week. I do like on the weekends sitting on the couch or at the table having the paper spread out in front of me to read.
2008-10-21 10:50:41
18.   Humma Kavula
11 Jones shows up at Spring Training at his Blimp weight, Dodgers need to go after his contract for being unfit to play.

If Jones does show up overweight, it puts both Jones and the Dodgers in a serious bind. It keeps Jones in L.A., because he will be untradeable. It keeps him on the bench, because he will be unplayable. And it keeps him on the Dodgers, because if they were to go after him for being unfit to play, I think a whole lot of free agents would, going forward, avoid dealing with the Dodgers. ("Hey, I'm not going to park my free agent with your team on a four-year deal -- if something happens to him in year two, are you going to decide that you don't have to pay him?")

2008-10-21 10:51:11
19.   underdog
13 Hah hah. They demand a sacrifice!

Saw this on MLBTR:
MLB.com's Chris Haft heard the Twins covet Matt Cain and would be willing to trade Delmon Young for him. Haft does not believe the Giants would make the one-for-one swap.

(Oh, please, please, do it Giants, do it!)

2008-10-21 10:51:40
20.   Ken Noe
Realistically, who would bite on Jones without LA eating all of his salary?
2008-10-21 10:52:03
21.   Eric Stephen
14
At this point, 7 years removed from 9/11, and with heightened security in place for years, can't we assume someone like Andruw -- traveling in and out of the county during the offseason every year -- has the proper documentation and is really his actual age?
2008-10-21 10:52:35
22.   Humma Kavula
covet ... Cain

Insert Biblical joke here.

2008-10-21 10:53:06
23.   D4P
One thing we know for sure: Andruw Jones will get paid his exorbitant salary this year. His weight doesn't matter. His production doesn't matter. His attitude doesn't matter. His location doesn't matter.
2008-10-21 10:54:02
24.   D4P
21
And the female Chinese Gymnastic Olympians were all 16 or older.
2008-10-21 10:54:16
25.   El Lay Dave
21 Didn't Miguel Tejada's real age come to light just this past off-season, and only because he decided to come clean?
2008-10-21 10:54:55
26.   Ken Noe
21 I take it you don't fly out of Atlanta much.
2008-10-21 10:55:13
27.   D4P
Plus, didn't we just find out in the past year that Miguel Tejada is a couple years older than he used to claim?
2008-10-21 10:55:45
28.   SG6
12 - I'm with you Hollywood Joe. I love reading the paper. There are times when I don't want to stare at a monitor - mostly when I'm not at work.
2008-10-21 10:56:04
29.   El Lay Dave
13 And he's claiming his career downturn is just a flesh wound.
2008-10-21 11:00:29
30.   Kevin Lewis
I love getting the paper, but I eventually canceled it because of just the amount of paper it took, especially on Sundays. With a newborn, I just don't find the time to take my time through the paper throughout the day.
2008-10-21 11:03:17
31.   Eric Stephen
19
I think it would be hilarious if Cain goes somewhere else -- like Minnesota -- and pitches the same but ends up with like a 19-4 record, just the complete other end of the luck spectrum.

There have been 53 pitchers with 350 IP and a 100 ERA+ from 2007-2008. Only 7 have a losing record, and only one is more than 4 games under:

Gil Meche: 23-24, 121 ERA+
Matt Cain: 15-30, 118 ERA+
John Danks: 18-22, 110 ERA+
Aaron Harang: 22-23, 109 ERA+
Doug Davis: 19-20, 108 ERA+
Wandy Rodriguez: 18-20, 105 ERA+
Bronson Arroyo: 24-26, 102 ERA+

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/7yBm

2008-10-21 11:05:07
32.   Eric Stephen
31
That was minimum 300 IP.
2008-10-21 11:05:16
33.   El Lay Dave
It is a little inconvenient to make a conscious effort to pick up a free newspaper for my camping trips, to aid in starting the fire.

I am old enough to remember my family taking both the morning Times and the afternoon Herald-Examiner, so I do have some fond memories of reading newspapers, but as 30 points out, times seems to permit no longer.

2008-10-21 11:06:05
34.   ToyCannon
The LA Times was part of my life from 1970 until the Depo wars caused me to cancel. The internet has completely replaced it and I don't think I miss it. Sorry Marty.
2008-10-21 11:08:51
35.   bhsportsguy
Tony Jackson is on today's BP Radio podcast.
2008-10-21 11:12:46
36.   Kevin Lewis
I miss the physical paper, but just not enough to order it again and to read it on a daily basis. I always pick one up if I am in a waiting room or restaurant where it is lying around.
2008-10-21 11:15:03
37.   delias man
Sports page was barely 6 pages, even with the David Price article. Truly disappointing. When I called to cancel my subscription last month, they cut my bill in half to stay. $22.00 every 8 weeks still seems worth it, at least a little.
2008-10-21 11:26:42
38.   oshea2002
Olney in chat today was mentioning that the Dodgers will throw out feelers on Martin, with the Red Sox interested for sure.
2008-10-21 11:28:02
39.   scareduck
Immediate reaction to the Times' changes:

1) I definitely like the uniform typefaces. Surrendering to the mid-90's Wired typographic schizophrenia was a bad idea.
2) I guess I didn't notice the "Morning Briefing". Everybody's cutting back on print space; for those upthread who think the Times is thin, the Register is a pamphlet in comparison, as is the Long Beach Press-Telegram.

2008-10-21 11:28:35
40.   ToyCannon
If the Giants would be interested in trading Matt Cain for Matt Kemp I would be listening very hard.
2008-10-21 11:36:47
41.   MJW101
I normally agree that if the GM gets the blame for poor transactions he should get the praise for good ones. However, I feel that Frank had more to do with initiating the Manny trade than Ned. I do not think that Ned at that point in the season had the authority to initiate a Manny trade. Getting Manny and Blake for no money and a couple minor league scrubs (just kidding!) was a great deal in Frank & Ned's way of looking at things.

Ned may have worked out the details, but Frank initiated the trade process. I think he had visions of Manny, Lowe, Nomar and Varitek playing together again, but for the LAD. Not going to hapen.

2008-10-21 11:37:09
42.   D4P
38
Martin and Kershaw for Paul Byrd, Dave Ross, Coco Crisp, and Alex Cora.

Boom! We get a starting pitcher, catcher, centerfielder, and shortstop.

Ned's work here is done.

2008-10-21 11:38:27
43.   oshea2002
42 - I was thinking Ned would let Raffy walk, then go Lugo and Ross for Martin. Then move Ross to 3rd, and sign Varitek.
2008-10-21 11:40:19
44.   Bob Timmermann
So the Dodgers are worried about Martin's "makeup" and then want to trade him to Boston? Perhaps then the Dodgers can replace Martin with the catcher who is so great that he can go 0 for 2000 and still help the team.

Buck Martinez will be very happy.

2008-10-21 11:41:00
45.   regfairfield
38 Are any of these Martin rumors going to address that we have absolutely no way to replace him?
2008-10-21 11:41:34
46.   silverwidow
35 Just listened to Tony Jackson's interview. An interesting tidbit - he doesn't think we have interest in CC Sabathia. Too costly, it seems.

I'm not happy about that.

2008-10-21 11:42:00
47.   D4P
The Dodgers weren't worried about Manny's makeup.
2008-10-21 11:42:04
48.   fanerman
45 Well there's Carlos... oh wait, nevermind. Sob.
2008-10-21 11:42:49
49.   oshea2002
45 - I highly doubt it. I'd listen to offers for anyone though. Ask for Lester, Buckholz, and Ellsbury, what's the worst they could say?
2008-10-21 11:42:49
50.   Eric Stephen
45
That requires too much work.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-21 11:44:21
51.   OhioBlues12
16 - There is no doubt that pitchers of that caliber have value, but most of us continue to undervalue Pierre. To think that he has no value on the trade market is folly in my opinion. Pierre doesn't have value to us because we have better options but what of those teams that don't have better options?

3 - I wouldn't mind taking a look at Abreu if Manny goes elsewhere. He still has some pop and good OBP.

2008-10-21 11:46:39
52.   Bluebleeder87
does Jones realize how bad you have to suck to get BOOED in this town!?!?!?

I'm sorry Jon but I had to let that out...

2008-10-21 11:47:07
53.   bagg4
It's a shame that Briefing and bits like it (old enough to remember Ostler's Bottom 10?) are sacrificed because Zell and his ilk buy into leveraged purchases. Sadly the economic meltdown has the same root causes. Spending money you can't afford on something you gamble will appreciate in value to pay for its purchase. The Times was a great paper that held its own in the pantheon of international newspapers. When the Left Coast was panned as nuts and wacko, the Times was there as a symbol of how the Southland was a world player that the East Coast had to look at or up to.

The Internet is OK for catching up on the news, or, especially when you no longer live in an area,a great way to stay connected. That said, the flow of leafing through pages cannot be replicated in 2 dimensions. Curling up with a loved one on the couch with a laptop just isn't the same.

Progress isn't always so.....

2008-10-21 11:53:24
54.   Bob Timmermann
52
Kobe Bryant has been booed in L.A. so I'm not sure if quality of play has a lot to do with it.

At least Andruw Jones hasn't had the temerity yet to do something horrible like Shawn Green and agree to be traded in order to improve the team! That horrible, horrible, horrible man!

2008-10-21 11:54:00
55.   ToyCannon
38
Nothing wrong with throwing out feelers, you never know who will overpay.

They may not be interested in trading Martin because of makeup as much as the idea he was uninterested in signing a contract and they don't want to go to arbitration year after year and have battles throughout his Dodger career.

Boston certainly has players I'd trade Martin for:
Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester
but with our luck we'd end up with Lowell and Lugo and sign Varitek as a FA.

2008-10-21 11:55:17
56.   Eric Stephen
54
I always assumed it had to do with giving out poisoned batting gloves after hitting a HR (think final moment of 24 season 2).
2008-10-21 11:58:15
57.   kinbote
The USA Today killed the newspaper as we know it.
2008-10-21 11:58:41
58.   bhsportsguy
54 Kobe Bryant was booed for about 20 seconds and by the end of game had people yelling "MVP, MVP!"
2008-10-21 11:59:49
59.   Ken Noe
MEMORANDUM
TO: Ned Colletti
FROM: Ken Noe
RE: Russell Martin
You could get away with moving Martin, and even with Varitek as a stop-gap, if you had Carlos Santana in the wings. Remember him?
2008-10-21 12:01:30
60.   bhsportsguy
I love how there is nothing in any LA papers about the Dodgers shopping Martin and yet all it takes is Buster Olney to mention in a chat and everyone believes that the Dodgers want to move Martin.

How many times must it be repeated, if there is anything that can be said about the Ned Colletti led front office, they rarely if ever, send out feelers via the media.

2008-10-21 12:01:41
61.   underdog
Is there really anything to these Martin rumors, or is it just air-filling blather from East Coast reporters who have no actual connection to the Dodgers? Color me skeptical. But if there is anything to it, can we start an email campaign now to flood their office with pleasantly worded threats?
2008-10-21 12:02:08
62.   underdog
Or, what BH said.
2008-10-21 12:02:30
63.   Eric Stephen
Before today I had no idea there was an actual Celebrity Boxing Federation. I mean, we've all seen the occasional celebrity boxing match (Horshack getting pounded by Screech, for instance), but who knew there existed a governing body?

Apparently, Jose Canseco will fight Danny Bonaduce in January. It's like Christmas getting extended a whole month! :)

2008-10-21 12:03:09
64.   bhsportsguy
59 You must add Dejon Watson, Logan White and Kim Ng to that memo too since they are among the Dodger front office who probably advised Ned that losing Santana was worth making that trade.
2008-10-21 12:04:00
65.   bferb
46 Various reports have already come out stating that the Yankees will offer CC something like 30% - 40% higher than the next bidder. I doubt that puts the Dodgers in the running, unless CC decides being in the National League and on the West Coast mean that much to him.
2008-10-21 12:05:40
66.   Disabled List
I'm 32 years old, which hardly makes me a fossil, and I grew up reading the LA Times. I subscribed all through college and for years afterwards, even well after I started getting my breaking news from cable and the internet. I love newspapers and think they are civic institutions. Their news gathering capabilities and ability to place current news in its appropriate context are irreplaceable.

What is happening to the LA Times is breaking my heart. Otis Chandler would puke if he were alive today. Every time I come back to Los Angeles, the paper seems to be thinner and less substantive than the last time I saw it. I really wonder what it's going to look like in a few years.

2008-10-21 12:05:52
67.   regfairfield
I wouldn't do Martin for Lowrie, Lowell, and Kottaras but that's probably the type of package we'd get in return.
2008-10-21 12:06:22
68.   bferb
63 Amazing! Isn't Bonaduce some type of martial arts master?
2008-10-21 12:06:41
69.   kinbote
The Yankees killed baseball as we know it.
2008-10-21 12:07:08
70.   regfairfield
65 That puts everyone out of the running mathematically.
2008-10-21 12:07:41
71.   Tripon
Lets trade Martin for Lowrie, Pedroia, and Lester.

In other words, this never happens. This sounds like other execs coveting Martin and trying to drive down the price.

2008-10-21 12:08:23
72.   berkowit28
12 (newspaper delivery) Me too.
2008-10-21 12:12:12
73.   Ken Noe
Martin's not going anywhere barring a blockbuster haul, not without Santana anyway (my earlier point).
2008-10-21 12:12:41
74.   CajunDodger
67
I think a Martin for Youkilis trade is the kind of deal that would be made and would fill the hole at third base we have had since Beltre left.

But as it has been said, THERE IS NO ONE TO REPLACE MARTIN...ANYWHERE. This is one of the worst shortages of catching talent the league has seen in quite some time. We would be creating a huge hole to fill a smaller one.

Now I'm grumpy.

2008-10-21 12:13:20
75.   Tripon
Here's one way I can see Martin going.

Dodgers trade Martin to Red Sox for a combination of Lester/Pedroia/Youk.

Dodgers then trade for Mike Napoli for Hu.

Everyone wins! Well, until Napoli breaks down.

2008-10-21 12:14:34
76.   Tripon
74 Youkalis is in the same boat as Martin is. They both want to sweat out arbitration every year.
2008-10-21 12:18:16
77.   Disabled List
Dustin Pedroia is about to win the AL MVP award. The chances of the Red Sox trading him for Russell Martin are about the same as the Red Sox trading him for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones.
2008-10-21 12:20:10
78.   cargill06
I would have to think, Pedroia, Youk, and Lester are untouchable. Lowrie, Bucholz, would be interesting pieces to recieve but I just can't see any Boston/LA trade happening.
2008-10-21 12:22:27
79.   Eric Stephen
I was on ESPN.com, and stumbled across this ESPN Magazine piece on Eck & Gibson reliving the HR:

http://tinyurl.com/3roeb6

...and I came across this pretty funny Rickey Henderson story (not as good as probably 10 others) from Eck as well:

http://tinyurl.com/5quxzu

2008-10-21 12:22:53
80.   Brian Y
If Martin goes to the Sox I would expect one of Schmidt and Andruw to accompany him with Cotteras, Lowell, and Buchholz/Masterson, etc coming back
2008-10-21 12:22:55
81.   Humma Kavula
Calm down, everybody. Martin isn't getting traded, least of all for Julio Lugo, who -- I needn't remind you -- Colletti has already acquired, had a sour experience with, and let go (via free agency).
2008-10-21 12:23:17
82.   Marty
34 Well, I know where I won't get my electric bike :-)
2008-10-21 12:26:39
83.   SG6
51 - I don't think Pierre is undervalued anywhere.

He may have had value as a "defensive" CFer with speed and batting average, until his arm was really exposed.

As a speedy, no-arm, no-power LFer, who no longer hits for average, nor gets on base, there just isn't demand outside of a 4th outfielder at best.

2008-10-21 12:28:16
84.   cargill06
The showdown no one on DT wants to see....

Flanders vs. Theo.

2008-10-21 12:34:25
85.   Harold M Johnson
Jones got booed loudly and consistently, but when the Dodgers were winning in the second half, I remember him coming up to bat in an important situation as a pinch hitter, and the crowd rallying and cheering like mad for him. Sure it may have been partially sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek but I know almost every Dodgers fan wanted him to finally do_something_. He struck out. And was booed mercilessly.
2008-10-21 12:39:49
86.   Disabled List
84 Seriously. The Red Sox ought to be the last team the Dodgers should be trading with. Colletti would be very proud of himself for acquiring Lowell and Varitek, while Theo would end up with Kershaw, Martin, Kemp, Ned Colletti's kids, and Jamie McCourt.
2008-10-21 12:40:55
87.   Tripon
Steve (LA): Would you trade Kershaw, Kemp, and McDonald for Peavy? That seems to be the names being thrown around...seems like a lot especially after seeing McDonald in the playoffs.

SportsNation Rob Neyer: No, I would not. Kershaw and McDonald, maybe, based on the old bird-in-the-hand theory. But Kemp's going to be an outstanding major league hitter for many years. If the Dodgers don't re-sign Manny, they're going to need Kemp.

Jerry (Seattle): Any insight on the Mariners GM situation?

SportsNation Rob Neyer: Nope. I just hope Kim Ng gets the job, because it would be a great story.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=23136

2008-10-21 12:43:34
88.   Tripon
Josh (NY): Cano and Kennedy for Matt Kemp? Yankees need a center fielder and reports say the Dodgers love Cano.

SportsNation Rob Neyer: One sticking point: I'm not sure Kemp is a center fielder for much longer. I think he's about to grow out of the position (if he hasn't already). Also, do the Dodgers need another young starter? Can't Jamie McDonald be that guy if they want one?

2008-10-21 12:44:23
89.   Ken Noe
86 Ned: I really pulled one over on you getting Manny for free, didn't I, Theo? Heh heh.
Theo: You bet Ned. Now let's talk about a deal for your current roster....
2008-10-21 12:45:06
90.   OhioBlues12
83 - I don't think anyone is undervaluing Pierre as a player, but as a trade chip he is undervalued constantly. I see comments all the time about how we could only get a AAAA player for him while playing all of his salary. I just don't think that is true. There are certainly other players with bad contracts that other GMs would like to move that may be able to address one of our needs while Pierre addresses one of theirs. I just think it is better to swap those players than have Pierre sulking on the bench.
2008-10-21 12:50:24
91.   Humma Kavula
88 Interesting.

If Kemp can no longer play CF, how does that figure into the possible plan to sign Manny?

What does "grow out of the position" mean? How bad would Kemp be? How much would he cost the team on defense? How much of Kemp's value is tied into the fact that he can play a reasonable center field? If he can no longer play CF, how much does he need to improve to retain his value?

Matt Kemp is my favorite player on the Dodgers, but there are a lot of questions that he can answer by taking a big step forward next year.

2008-10-21 12:57:08
92.   Tripon
91 If Kemp had to switch out from CF to RF, I would think the casualty would be Ethier if LF was taken by Manny.

Who knows, maybe Lambo can learn how to play CF. ...Probably not. Strange-Gordon might be switching a position if Furcal is retained and DeJesus takes 2nd.

2008-10-21 12:57:22
93.   underdog
Cool. I enjoyed those two or so weeks we had free from Yankees-fans-asking-about-Kemp-for-Cano. That was a nice respite.
2008-10-21 12:57:28
94.   regfairfield
91 If he doesn't make the leap, most of Kemp's value is that he can have an .800 OPS while playing average defense in center. There aren't all that many players that can do that. If it turns into average defense in a corner, he's in trouble.
2008-10-21 12:59:39
95.   Ken Noe
91 I assume Neyer just sees Bison as a corner outfielder with power and a big arm. Whereas I see him flanked one day by Ethier and Lambo.
2008-10-21 13:01:10
96.   D4P
87
Funny. I'd be much more willing to trade Kemp than Kershaw.
2008-10-21 13:09:29
97.   still bevens
Maybe they're expecting Kemp to get even bigger this off-season? I wouldnt be against it if he keeps above average speed and gains even more power.
2008-10-21 13:13:14
98.   KG16
it's funny a lot of people thought the internet would kill books but newspapers (and to a certain extent magazines) were the real casualties. I do still miss newspapers and will pick one up every once in a while, but it feels like yesterdays news. Still, the feel, smell, and all the other stuff everyone mentioned is why I still love books - much more organic.

Also, first comment from the iPhone

2008-10-21 13:14:13
99.   Tripon
98 The iPhone killed newspapers
2008-10-21 13:19:29
100.   D4P
The Commodore 64 killed the Apple II.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-21 13:20:21
101.   El Lay Dave
Video killed the radio star.
2008-10-21 13:22:41
102.   bhsportsguy
98 Here's one book that not even a Blackberry will kill.

http://tinyurl.com/100Dodgerthings

2008-10-21 13:24:17
103.   Bob Timmermann
102
It's eligible for free shipping!
2008-10-21 13:24:26
104.   El Lay Dave
I know listed heights and weights are notoriously inaccurate, but here are the players 1956-present who are at least 6'2" and played at least as many games as Matt Kemp in CF (136), sorted by weight.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/Hb3r

I think it will be awhile before Kemp is too slow or not quick enough to play CF.

2008-10-21 13:26:48
105.   El Lay Dave
102 Peter O'Malley (Foreword)

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Congrats, Jon!

2008-10-21 13:28:33
106.   bhsportsguy
103 Well, if you order 3 copies, you can get free shipping.

I'm waiting for the audio version with narration by Rick Monday and Steve "Psycho" Lyons.

2008-10-21 13:33:31
107.   Bob Hendley
Pre-ordered!
2008-10-21 13:35:48
108.   Jon Weisman
102 103 107 - Not yet! Not yet!
2008-10-21 13:37:29
109.   Jon Weisman
108 - I mean, I'm grateful, but I want to set it up so you can order through Dodger Thoughts.
2008-10-21 13:40:31
110.   bhsportsguy
108 Jon sounds like a certain guy who patrols the Rose Bowl.

Only Bob will get this reference.

2008-10-21 13:41:43
111.   bhsportsguy
108 Oh, and sorry Jon, I should have guessed that you would have something up your sleeve regarding the book.
2008-10-21 13:43:04
112.   Kevin Lewis
108
Autographed copies?
2008-10-21 13:46:38
113.   Jon Weisman
112 - I am prepared to increase my career total of four autographs signed, if the public demands ...
2008-10-21 13:47:25
114.   Ken Noe
Gee, I'd already pre-ordered too. But it's not expensive, I can buy another at the proper time.
2008-10-21 13:49:35
115.   bhsportsguy
113 Can I get my copy of "The Best of Dodger Thoughts" signed too? Or will that be an extra charge?
2008-10-21 13:50:21
116.   GiantturnedDodger
I love my newspaper and think the decline of the LA Times is sorry. I believe I posted this before a few months back but I read a great article on this topic in the New Yorker magazine, I wish I had a link. It followed the history of news reporting in this country from the early stages where there was usually two papers for the major cities each thoroughly entrenched with either side of the competing political parties. Biased reporting that would put Fox and MSNBC to shame today. Then in the early 1900's the concept of unbiased reporting was born and has survived, for the most part until recently. The internet for the most part, forget sports for a moment, utilizes content from the reporters who work for the print and media outlets. With these mediums in decline who will actually gather the news? The staffs are getting cut so much that having a reporter cover something on the ground live say in China or Russia may be a thing of the past. It's an interesting issue. For me sports is different. I can watch the games and see for myself and read Dodger Thoughts which offers much greater insight then anything the LA Times does now or probably ever did. Change and destructive technology are inevitable I guess. My kids read books but not the newspaper and get all of their information online. I feel old.
2008-10-21 13:51:05
117.   Jon Weisman
114 - Don't sweat it :)

113 - Ask Suffering Bruin ...

111 - I know you meant well.

2008-10-21 13:51:50
118.   Jon Weisman
117 - the "Ask Suffering Bruin" line was for 115.
2008-10-21 13:56:38
119.   ToyCannon
118
I liked it better when I had the only BODT signed copy.
2008-10-21 13:59:27
120.   Eric Stephen
I think we should create a list of things Dodger Thoughts fans should do before they die. Maybe not 100 things, but some sort of list. Some ideas:

1) Attend a DT picnic
2) Email a Dodger beat writer
3) Borrow one of Shimmin's pens for Jon to sign your book, then "forget" to return pen
4) Look up the meaning of a word used by Bob
5) Attend a Dodger road game with fellow DTers

2008-10-21 14:00:01
121.   Jon Weisman
119 - One out of two ain't bad.
2008-10-21 14:01:37
122.   Jon Weisman
120 - I've done all but No. 3, although I'm using my family to qualify for No. 5.
2008-10-21 14:02:34
123.   LoneStar7
110 but now!
2008-10-21 14:03:23
124.   Eric Stephen
122
Point (5) requires at least two members of the attending party to have an active DT screen name. :)
2008-10-21 14:03:35
125.   bhsportsguy
120 I have done 3 of the 5, plus I also called in to Dodger Talk with special guest, Jon Weisman.

Borrowing a pen might be the Holy Grail of Dodger Thoughts though.

2008-10-21 14:04:00
126.   Kevin Lewis
6) Play a DT softball game :)
2008-10-21 14:04:39
127.   bhsportsguy
125 I guess next year has to be San Diego with Eric Stephen and JJ42.
2008-10-21 14:05:49
128.   bhsportsguy
7] Discussing the finer points of Alexander Hamilton and why Andrew Jackson should not be in the top 40 of greatest US presidents with Greg Brock.
2008-10-21 14:06:32
129.   Eric Stephen
Counting 125 as #7...

8) Watch Freaks & Geeks (which I have yet to do)
9) Live on a street that turns into a street named for Danica McKellar (I have done this one!) :)

2008-10-21 14:07:02
130.   Jon Weisman
124 - Hmm ... I'm one short, then.
2008-10-21 14:11:36
131.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
8.) Watching the Dodgers win a World Series.

I would like to see this before I kick the bucket.

2008-10-21 14:11:36
132.   delias man
126 How many people do you have for the game now?
2008-10-21 14:12:03
133.   delias man
126 How many people do you have for the game now?
2008-10-21 14:12:42
134.   rayg
anyone else see this on Martin?

Matty D – LA: Buster, I've heard that the Dodgers are interested in seeing what they can get for Russell Martin. Are they serious? What could they get for him? What teams could be involved?

Buster Olney: (2:03 PM ET ) Matty D: Yes, I think they'll explore that. And if they decide to trade him, you can bet the Red Sox will be all over that, with Varitek's time nearing an end, whether it's two more years or less.
and this, which I have mentioned previously:

John (Boston): Buster – maybe it's my east coast ignorance here, but why would the Dodgers consider moving Martin? I've only read great things about him, and his numbers last year were very good. He's gotta still be at least a top 5 catcher in mlb – was it a lack of consistency this year? Please enlighten me…thanks.

Buster Olney: (2:07 PM ET ) John: There are those within that organization that would like to see him make a greater commitment to his defense. I'll leave it at that.

2008-10-21 14:15:36
135.   Kevin Lewis
132 133

I have about 5-6 "yes" answers and a whole bunch of maybes. This is what typically happens when I try to plan something like this. I bet about 16 people will show up, which is fine. Last time that happened we broke the teams up into 4 teams of 4 people, and rotated hitting/defense. It was still fun to just play.

2008-10-21 14:16:45
136.   bhsportsguy
134 Well, I can't really say I was pleased with his defense this year.
2008-10-21 14:17:09
137.   Eric Stephen
135
Next time I visit my cousin in Pasadena, I will play (and bring him as well).
2008-10-21 14:17:29
138.   D4P
136
And what happened to his power...?
2008-10-21 14:18:18
139.   D4P
BTW: Is Dodger Management generally pleased with Manny's commitment to defense?
2008-10-21 14:20:16
140.   Tripon
Is the Dodgers management generally pleased with Andruw Jones commitment to defense?
2008-10-21 14:20:28
141.   ToyCannon
139
If Martin hit like Manny then you could ask that question. When he hits like Jason Kendall then he better be a good defensive catcher.
2008-10-21 14:21:14
142.   bhsportsguy
139 Actually, they were pleased with his defense.
2008-10-21 14:21:57
143.   Humma Kavula
134 MADE UP FLASHBACK

Not John ca. 1998 (Boston): Buster – maybe it's my east coast ignorance here, but why would the Dodgers consider moving Mike Piazza? I've only read great things about him, and his numbers last year were very good. He's gotta still be at least a top 5 catcher in mlb....

Not Buster Olney ca. 1998: (2:07 PM ET ) John: There are those within that organization that would like to see him make a greater commitment to his defense. I'll leave it at that.

2008-10-21 14:23:39
144.   rayg
I have to agree with those within the Dodgers organization about Martin's regression behind the plate this year.
2008-10-21 14:23:42
145.   Jon Weisman
Where is Casey Stengel when you need him?
2008-10-21 14:23:45
146.   bhsportsguy
143 Understand the intent but you can't compare those two, Martin is a better defensive player but he is not close as an offensive player.
2008-10-21 14:23:49
147.   D4P
142
But they couldn't have been pleased with his defense (or commitment thereto) before they acquired him.
2008-10-21 14:25:39
148.   Eric Stephen
143
[Frank Sinatra, after perusing the MLB page on ESPN.com "Starwave"]
"Trade Piazza???!!!! Over my dead body!"
2008-10-21 14:25:44
149.   Jon Weisman
144 - I don't think anyone doubts Martin had an off year defensively. The idea that the Dodgers would be showing him the door because of it ... ridiculous on its face.
2008-10-21 14:26:00
150.   Humma Kavula
146 I know. But that's not the point. The point is that if you get caught in the trap of looking at what a player isn't, you lose sight of what the player is.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-21 14:26:18
151.   Kevin Lewis
If I am reading BP right, Martin's defense has not changed much over the last 3 years. Have the Dodgers always questioned his commitment to D?
2008-10-21 14:26:28
152.   Hollywood Joe
143 I dont want to see Martin go anywhere, but comparing him to Mikey is a little nuts...

In honor of the election season...
"Russel Martin I knew Mike Piazza, I served with Mike Piazza, Mike Piazza was a freind of mine. Russel Martin, you are no Mike Piazza."

2008-10-21 14:27:19
153.   Humma Kavula
152 see 150 .
2008-10-21 14:29:22
154.   Hollywood Joe
153

I know I know

I just wanted to bust out the Lloyd Bentsen line...

I only get to work that joke once every 4 years

2008-10-21 14:29:37
155.   Jon Weisman
I enjoyed the DT Top 100 list. I think defending Hee Seop Choi or J.D. Drew in public should be on there.
2008-10-21 14:29:46
156.   bhsportsguy
150 Couldn't the same be said of Mr. Pierre?
2008-10-21 14:29:55
157.   Jon Weisman
(If you are so inclined.)
2008-10-21 14:30:16
158.   Bob Timmermann
150
"Bad teams blame their best player for their problems" -- Bill James

Most likely paraphrased.

2008-10-21 14:30:32
159.   Jon Weisman
156 - Juan Pierre has speed and gets a lot of singles.
2008-10-21 14:30:36
160.   Tripon
151 I think part of the question of the commitment of defense is the implication that Martin parties too much at night. Martin is probably the most notable party goer of the young Dodgers.
2008-10-21 14:31:11
161.   ToyCannon
149
Unless they asked him to do things and he refused to do it. Like work on his defense or how he took suggestions. This is all conjecture and the fact they traded Santana and batted Martin fourth during the NLCS seems to indicate they are quite happy with him.
2008-10-21 14:33:26
162.   Humma Kavula
156 Yes, absolutely. Which is why I acknowledged, time and again, that my crusade on another site was completely ridiculous...

...but we know from looking at what Pierre IS that he's not valuable as a starter. My focus on what he wasn't -- his outs -- was, I hope, a humorous and ridiculous counterpoint to those who looked only at his 200 hits and his speed.

Whether I succeeded or not is in the eye of the beholder.

2008-10-21 14:34:06
163.   KG16
99 - 103 - well played gentlemen, well played.
2008-10-21 14:34:10
164.   Hollywood Joe
I think the real question of the day is whether or not you are going to let yourself be tossed into a tizzy by rumors from a grown man named "Buster:

I for one am prepared to say "Poppycock" to this whole noise until I see further evidence of it being real

Likewise for those Kemp for Cano rumors that some New York rag keeps stirring up

Now, who is following the Dodgers in the Arizona Fall League? I wanted to get down there but work isnt going to let that happen

2008-10-21 14:35:11
165.   Eric Stephen
155
13) Wearing a DT shirt in public
2008-10-21 14:35:44
166.   delias man
135 Pls send me an evite. it is a possibility. joshua1302s a yahoo dot com.
2008-10-21 14:35:45
167.   Kevin Lewis
10) Standing outside Manny's residence with a bat and some posters, hoping for an autograph.

Yes, this was seen recently.

2008-10-21 14:36:52
168.   kinbote
My least favorite off-season past times:

1. Bashing Russell Martin
2.

2008-10-21 14:36:56
169.   Kevin Lewis
166

Done

2008-10-21 14:38:48
170.   bhsportsguy
162 First off, the whole source of this story is somewhat suspect.

In a sad way, it kind of sounds like the type of stuff you hear just before someone has his first shot at some big money.

The last thing I read from Martin indicates that he now believes that he needs more rest and that doesn't mean playing another position on his "off" days.

2008-10-21 14:39:25
171.   Hollywood Joe
165

14. Quietly figuring out OPS+ & VORP for available little league rightfielders while drafting the team of 11 year olds you are coaching

2008-10-21 14:41:06
172.   Humma Kavula
170 I certainly agree. I don't see Martin getting traded.
2008-10-21 14:41:42
173.   Eric Stephen
171
Ha!

I bet those darn park factors are tough to measure!

2008-10-21 14:47:12
174.   bferb
I agree with most of you that this is media nonsense. However, if there is any truth to the Martin rumors it could just be in the context that our former Mr. Depodesta described in his blog:

"We are looking to get better.

It's really that simple. We're not trying to trade certain players, and we're certainly not looking to move players just to move them. As with any off-season or trading deadline, we're assessing the market value for our players to see whether or not that value surpasses their value to the Padres. If you have something you value at one million dollars, it would be foolish to refuse to consider selling it for twenty million dollars. On the flip side, it would also be foolish to sell it for anything less than one million. The thing that makes the market work is that each player has a different value to virtually every Club.

Furthermore, no one player makes a great team. This has been proven time and time again in baseball. We don't need to look any further than the 2008 Padres that went 63-99 with Jake Peavy, but I will."

Here's the link to read his examples and more:
http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/

2008-10-21 14:48:28
175.   rayg
Baseball Prospectus did a nice interview with TJ posted on their site today. TJ thinks LA will:
1. sign Furcal to a 1 year deal, and Dejesus to take over in 2010.
2. will not look to sign Manny-50/50 chance he says
3. will not get into the CC bid wars
4. LA will get involved in the Peavy trade talk.

ummm......don't we need a power hitter, Tony? I am sure there are others out there....but I would rather take my chances on giving Manny $80mm/4 yrs than anyone else out there.
thoughts?

2008-10-21 14:50:54
176.   bhsportsguy
175 I'll agree with this part, if Peavy gets dealt to a non-NL West team, the Dodgers will be happy not to face Peavy 4-5 times a year anymore.
2008-10-21 14:52:09
177.   JoeyP
There's going to be plenty of disappointed people around if the Dodgers fail to sign CC & Manny.

Teixeira seems like a perfect fit for Boston.

After that, what else is there?
Burrell, Dunn? - not Ned type players.

If the payroll drops from 120mils to 90 mils over 1 off-season, there's gonna be a loud rumble regarding the McCourt finances.

2008-10-21 14:52:30
178.   Kevin Lewis
175

At the beginning of your comment, I thought you were talking about Simers.

2008-10-21 14:53:55
179.   D4P
There's going to be plenty of disappointed people around if the Dodgers fail to sign CC & Manny

I wouldn't be too surprised if the Yankees were to sign both.

2008-10-21 14:54:40
180.   regfairfield
177 How, they're pretty stable at the corners? The Yankees or Angels seem like a much better fit.

I think there's a good chance we'll see Orlando Hudson in a Dodger uniform.

2008-10-21 14:55:42
181.   Bob Timmermann
180
They can do remarkable things with PhotoShop now.
2008-10-21 14:56:46
182.   JoeyP
Lowell & David Ortiz are both on the downsides of their careers.

Red Sox can stick to playing Youkilis at 3b.

I just dont see the Red Sox risking having to play Kotsay at 1st base.

2008-10-21 14:58:56
183.   JoeyP
179- Random predictions:

Manny - NY Mets
CC - NY Yankees
Teixeira - Red Sox

2008-10-21 15:01:34
184.   LogikReader
183

This is going to sound ridiculous, but if Frank really wants to be taken seriously he would literally sign all three players. I'm not even kidding. Of course, we all know that has little chance of happening.

2008-10-21 15:03:05
185.   bhsportsguy
I never thought there was a shot that the Dodgers could sign both Manny and CC.

Manny is the key to the off-season, if he is wearing some number in Dodger blue next February, I think the majority of the ticket-buying public who go to the games won't care about the other 8 players on the field.

Now, is that the way I think you should run the Dodgers?

I'd probably go for CC and Lowe. Resign Furcal to 1-year incentive deal with a mutual option or even a vested option (based on certain counting stats) for another year. Try to fill the infield from within. As far as the outfield, I'd see what else is available after Manny and Burrell signs.

It would be going back to 2003 but also back to this team prior to Manny.

2008-10-21 15:03:17
186.   rayg
LA has close to $50 million coming off the books this offseason-Ned needs to reinvest that if they want to see the NLCS again in 2009.
-Trade for Peavy
-Sign Furcal
-Sign Manny

It could happen-thoughts?

2008-10-21 15:03:42
187.   silverwidow
Manny - Mets
CC - Angels
Teixeira - Yankees
2008-10-21 15:04:34
188.   KG16
KG's Christmas wish list*:

1. Dodgers get Peavy without giving up any starters (or MacDonald)
2. Dodgers re-sign Manny
3. Dodgers trade Pierre and Jones for spare parts
4. Lakers trade Vlad Rad and Chris Mihm for Chris Paul (this is my Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle wish)

*wish list subject to change on a whim

2008-10-21 15:04:42
189.   regfairfield
183 They aren't going to bench Lowell with two years left on his contract when he had a pretty solid year last year.

184 That would make the payroll something like 155 million next year.

2008-10-21 15:05:51
190.   D4P
This is going to sound ridiculous, but if Frank really wants to be taken seriously he would literally sign all three players

You mean, signing Schmidt, Pierre, and Jones (and giving them big contracts) weren't enough for Frank to be taken seriously?

2008-10-21 15:05:51
191.   rayg
McCourt saw how the fans fell in love with Manny....and saw how more seats were filled after the trade. If he signs Manny, he has the whole offseason to plan a marketing campaign around him. McCourt has to see $$$ with Manny here for another few years, no?
2008-10-21 15:06:58
192.   KG16
191 - besides what are they going to do with all those Mannywood t-shirts that they couldn't get done before the play offs ended?
2008-10-21 15:07:13
193.   Tripon
Dodgers sign two of the three of Furcal/C.C./Manny and it has to be seen as a massively successful off season.
2008-10-21 15:08:31
194.   bhsportsguy
190 On this point, I have to agree, spending money has not been a problem.

189 If the Dodgers are intent in not raising the majority of their ticket prices for next season (which based on their continuing promotion of getting 2009 season tix at the same price as this year), I can't see them raising payroll that much if at all in 2009.

2008-10-21 15:09:19
195.   Eric Stephen
180
Reg,

Do you think Hudson's drop in plus/minus can be attributed to his injuries this year? He went from:

2003: +22 (3rd in MLB)
2004: +35 (1st)
2005: +20 (5th)
2006: +13 (5th)
2007: +20 (3rd)
2008: -4 (22nd)

I wouldn't mind having Hudson but he'll surely be expensive.

2008-10-21 15:09:26
196.   bhsportsguy
192 The same thing they did with their Eric Gagne shirts, sell them in the gift stores until they run out.
2008-10-21 15:09:46
197.   KG16
I think I'd be happy with either Furcal or Hudson. Hudson probably makes more sense long term.
2008-10-21 15:09:53
198.   Kevin Lewis
192

Donate to a third-world country

2008-10-21 15:10:45
199.   milkshakeballa
No one in the Dodger oraganization has room to criticize Martin's defense if they NEVER give him a day off.

And I understand Martin needs to tell them he needs a day off, but it comes down to Torre sitting him on the bench and giving him a break.

Until this happens, Martin will suffer for 2nd half slides every year in his SHORT career until he retires.

2008-10-21 15:11:41
200.   Harold M Johnson
CC: Yankees
Texiera: Angels
K-Rod: Mets
Manny: Dodgers

Look for the Dodgers to sign Manny and do nothing else of note.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-10-21 15:12:30
201.   trainwreck
We would have to give up too much to get Peavy and Ned would not want to face a possible mistake in his own division.
2008-10-21 15:12:31
202.   RELX
Just for the sake of discussion, what do we think of a Martin-Peavy trade?
2008-10-21 15:13:18
203.   Tripon
My left out of field thought is that the Mets pick up Delgado's option, and then trade him to the Giants and then sign Texiera.
2008-10-21 15:13:35
204.   Eric Stephen
A Loney-Hudson-Furcal-DeWitt infield has a chance to be stellar defensively.
2008-10-21 15:14:40
205.   regfairfield
195 I don't know nearly enough about injuries to say.
2008-10-21 15:16:08
206.   JoeyP
Will the Angels extend Vlad, or let him play out 2009 and bid farewell?
2008-10-21 15:17:55
207.   bhsportsguy
206 They'll extend him.
2008-10-21 15:18:32
208.   silverwidow
202 The Padres want elite pitching prospects with almost zero ML service.
2008-10-21 15:18:53
209.   JoeyP
202- If the Dodgers still had Santana, then making a Martin+DeJesus for Peavy trade would be a fair deal to both sides IMO.

But with no other catching ready in the Dodger organization, I cant see the Dodgers dealing Martin until he becomes really overpaid. That wont be for awhile.

2008-10-21 15:19:22
210.   bferb
I'm afraid of Ned signing Ben Sheets...
2008-10-21 15:20:28
211.   delias man
208 I thought the Padres wanted a middle infielder too?
2008-10-21 15:21:01
212.   cargill06
This is truely one of the most interesting off-seasons we may every see. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what I would do if I were in Ned's shoe's. I've came to the conclusion this maybe what's best for the team in the long run. I would do anything in my power to sign CC, lock up Billingsley, Kershaw and Ethier to long term deals. Trade Juan Pierre, eat some to most of his contract (you still save money doing that.)

Your starting line-up looks like this
Martin
Loney
DeJesus
Hu
DeWitt
Ethier
Jones
Kemp

Rotation
CC
Billingsley
Kuroda
Kershaw
MacDonald

Nothing special but depending on how the young kids improve and how serious Andruw is about playing baseball it can still compete and you're keeping pay-roll about the same. This also gives you one more year to evaluate Martin, Kemp, DeWitt, Loney and you get to see what DeJesus and Hu can do going forward. Your rotation will be set until 2014 and will be realitvely cheap the quality and the years you have your top 3 or 4 guys locked up (depending on MacDonald). Than in 2010-2013 with all those bad contracts coming off the books you can really attack the FA market, and trade market with a better understanding of what you have on the big league level as far as offense and what you have to work with in the minors. If you take those steps we can start to resemble a franchise who is in fantastic shape to remain ultra-competitive for years to come.

There's only problem, Ned doesn't have the job security to make that happen.

2008-10-21 15:21:07
213.   silverwidow
211 True. Probably a high OBP guy.
2008-10-21 15:26:24
214.   LogikReader
190

I know you were joking, but there's "pretending to really go after it" and "really going after it."

Jones/Pierre/Schmidt is "pretending to go after it." It's saying "hey we signed a big name!" but for a few million dollars more per player, these names could have been much better players.

But the bottom line is, Ned was too impatient to wait for the real prime time players to hit FA, so he just went after the biggest players available at the time.

Remember the Corn Flakes theory!! Many little boxes of corn flakes vs one big box of Corn Flakes...

2008-10-21 15:26:59
215.   underdog
210 We already have a Ben Sheets called "Jason Schmidt," so hopefully that will deter him from bringing in another.
2008-10-21 15:31:57
216.   Eric Stephen
Just throwing this against the wall here; I wouldn't be surprised to see this lineup next season (or some variation of the order):

SS Furcal (S)
2B Hudson (S)
RF Ethier (L)
C Martin (R)
1B Loney (L)
CF Kemp (R)
LF Pierre (L)
3B DeWitt (L)

Adding Furcal, Hudson, and CC would add something like $40-45m to the 2009 payroll (depending on how the contracts are structured of course), still in line with the $120-130 of 2008. I don't think the Dodgers would sign both Furcal and Hudson to long-term deals, simply because it would block DeJesus, so this plan is only really workable if Furcal signs a 1- or 2-year deal.

2008-10-21 15:33:48
217.   silverwidow
216 Looks good, except Pierre probably won't be here. Add Burrell, who will def cost less than Manny but will give us power.
2008-10-21 15:34:50
218.   D4P
216
Nothing like a cleanup hitter who slugs under .400
2008-10-21 15:38:26
219.   Eric Stephen
218
Yeah, the lineup certainly lacks power, and I'm not married to the order; I was just trying to guess the likely order rather than the optimal one. Also, I try to stick to L-R-L-R... whenever possible.

I could see the top of that order being Furcal-Hudson-Kemp, with Ethier cleanup too.

2008-10-21 15:40:53
220.   D4P
219
Either way, the lineup's not too exciting. It's pretty much what we've had for the last few years, just substituting Hudson for Kent. We would expect below average production (and way below average power) at the trio of 1B, LF, and 3B.
2008-10-21 15:44:49
221.   Eric Stephen
220
The plus would be the defense, of course. Loney is currently a middle of the pack guy at 1B (but could live up to his scout-fed reputation), but replacing Kent with Hudson is potentially a 40-play improvement. Also, DeWitt is excellent defensively at 3B, and Pierre is a defensive asset in LF (his arm damage minimized in the corner spot).
2008-10-21 15:45:44
222.   Marty
I'm guessing the Martin rumors started because someone spotted him reading an L.A. Times.
2008-10-21 15:46:02
223.   Tripon
Here's an odd thought. The dodgers think Lucas May can legitimately catch at the major league level. And think they can trade Martin to fill other holes.
2008-10-21 15:46:28
224.   underdog
I'd like to trust Eric's line-up prediction, but am still waiting for him to watch some Freaks and Geeks before officially accrediting him.
2008-10-21 15:46:49
225.   bferb
How much does it take to get the O-Dog's services?

I'm continuously sad to see us overpaying 30-something year old guys who are oft-injured (although I do like the O-Dog's game when healthy)

2008-10-21 15:47:09
226.   underdog
223 I don't think the Dodgers are all that high on May anymore. So, I don't see that being their reasoning. If there's any reasoning.
2008-10-21 15:47:58
227.   regfairfield
223 Since it appears he can neither hit nor catch, that would be a bad thought.

225 He wanted 5/75 from Arizona.

2008-10-21 15:48:09
228.   silverwidow
221 I take it you're not into the Burrell idea? We need a 25+ homer lock to compete next year.
2008-10-21 15:53:34
229.   D4P
228
Burrell is not Ned's kinda player.
2008-10-21 15:54:22
230.   Tripon
228 The Burnell to the Dodgers sound too much like the Andruw Jones to the Dodger thoughts. Not that Burnell would be as bad as Jones was, but I don't know if Burnell is the answer the Dodgers question of power. We saw this year that if you just played Andre Ethier, and Matt Kemp, they were able to produce 20 and 18 homers respectively. Just 6 and 8 homers shy of what Jones were signed to produce. Left field might be a gapping hole next year, but I rather it be a hole than sign another overpriced FA who doesn't produce.

Or to put it another way. Manny or Bust.

2008-10-21 15:54:38
231.   Eric Stephen
228
I wouldn't mind Burrell, but I speculated that if they planned to sign Hudson, Furcal, AND CC, the payroll would be at or around $130m, which would basically force us to keep and play Pierre (and/or Jones of course).
2008-10-21 15:55:17
232.   bferb
227 Thanks for the info. That seems way too steep and would be a big mistake for us to spend that kind of money on him.

I'd rather spend $15+ on Burrell or even Dunn if we dont get Manny just to have some pop in our lineup and deal with 2B internally via DeJesus/Hu/Abreu

2008-10-21 15:55:50
233.   Jon Weisman
Until there is more credibility to the Martin rumor, there is really no reason to take it seriously on any level. Really.
2008-10-21 15:56:21
234.   Bob Timmermann
222
People were worried about Martin because he was seen reading the LA Times and it took him more than 20 minutes to read the whole paper.
2008-10-21 15:56:25
235.   mwhite06
I've been trying to convice my friends that the Dodgers should not overspend on Manny and should go after Burrell instead. Any idea what kind of deal it would take to get Burrell?
2008-10-21 15:57:58
236.   silverwidow
235 5/85 tops
2008-10-21 15:58:14
237.   ToyCannon
CC - Brewers
Vowell - Orioles
Manny - Giants
Peavy - Braves for a plethora of youth
Sheets -
Hudson - Mets
Abreu - Tampa
Furcal - Dodgers
2008-10-21 15:58:16
238.   Brent Knapp
Kevin, what time is the game on sunday? I fly in from san fran (go bruins) around 1.
2008-10-21 16:05:38
239.   Eric Stephen
I would much rather have Orlando Hudson than Burrell, even at the same salary. Burrell is a butcher in the OF (in the Dunn/Manny zone).

If the Dodgers sign a LF, only one will get the vaunted Eric Stephen endorsement. :)

2008-10-21 16:05:52
240.   Humma Kavula
Vowell - Orioles

Vowell is great, but I think the Orioles will regret this. She can't be more than five-feet-one, five-feet-two tops. Give me Sedaris any day of the week.

2008-10-21 16:08:45
241.   D4P
Manny should go to the AL, where he can DH. Same with Burrell and Dunn.
2008-10-21 16:10:42
242.   Tripon
apprently, everyone should DH!

There's only 14 AL teams, so unless somebody actually plays LH. Its going to be hard to find three AL teams that can actually afford Burrell, Dunn, or Manny.

2008-10-21 16:11:11
243.   underdog
240 Hah hah.

Amy or David?

But Sarah's a good free agent pick up if you need someone who can field... questions about the assassination of President McKinley.

2008-10-21 16:11:56
244.   fanerman
242 Okay, okay. You can play DH, too.
2008-10-21 16:12:50
245.   Kevin Lewis
238

1:00pm

2008-10-21 16:13:11
246.   CanuckDodger
Attention ToyCannon, Regafairfield: the new font at TrueBlueLa is pretty awful, and makes the text a pain to read. I hope you will change it back to the way it was before.
2008-10-21 16:13:33
247.   Tripon
244 Can I sign for 70 million/5 years too?
2008-10-21 16:13:44
248.   silverwidow
Hudson was really mediocre away from Chase Field the last three years.
2008-10-21 16:14:39
249.   fanerman
246 Dodger Thoughts: The place to voice your TrueBlueLA website issues.
2008-10-21 16:16:25
250.   Jon Weisman
246 - I think that's the kind of comment they'd prefer be left directly on their site.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-10-21 16:18:19
251.   underdog
Brent and Kevin are turning DT into Facebook. ;-)

You know, with all the rumors about Jason Varitek perhaps becoming a Dodger and whatever, doesn't the fact that he is yet another Scott Boras client kind of hurt those chances, especially if he was to be a backup in LA? Seems a longshot to me. And frankly, they'd be fine with someone like AJ Ellis (or even Danny Ardoin again) as backup.

2008-10-21 16:18:59
252.   Eric Stephen
248
Hudson's Road sOPS+
2006: 95
2007: 101
2008: 98

Combined with elite defense (assuming he's healthy of course, which is a big if) he's still a catch.

2008-10-21 16:21:35
253.   Tripon
251 Does Boras serve 'lesser' players like utility infielders, or fringe relief pitchers like JJJ?
2008-10-21 16:24:52
254.   still bevens
If Manny goes to the Giants I am going to weep. My SF friend raised that spectre about a month ago and he horrified me.
2008-10-21 16:25:50
255.   still bevens
253 He does. I can think of Alex Cora off the top of my head.
2008-10-21 16:26:25
256.   Tripon
Yeah, good luck with that. The Giants have a even messier outfielder situation than the Dodgers do.
2008-10-21 16:27:17
257.   underdog
253 Yes, including Tony Abreu (!)

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/scott-boras-cli.html

No JJJ, but he does represent JJ (Jair Jurrjens).

2008-10-21 16:28:38
258.   bferb
252 Do you really think an often injured player with a potential OPS+ in the range of 100 - 110 (even with stellar D) is worth $15 Million or more per year?
2008-10-21 16:30:07
259.   Eric Stephen
258
At an up the middle position, yes.
2008-10-21 16:31:21
260.   underdog
Who knows what will actually happen but I really don't see a scenario in which the Dodgers sign both Furcal and O Hudson. I just don't. It's too expensive and too risky given recent injury history. I do think they're serious about bringing Furcal back; who knows what will happen, but if they do, I think the Hudson-sucker Proxy will be dead. If they don't, then they may go after O Dog after all.
2008-10-21 16:32:48
261.   Eric Stephen
260
You had me at Hudson-sucker Proxy.
2008-10-21 16:34:55
262.   Eric Stephen
I also want the Dodgers to sign the O-Dog for two main reasons:

1) So Vin can say O-Dog a lot
2) So I can read an article about the Dodgers' hitting coach working with the two second basemen on the club, entitled "Tony, Orlando, and Don."

2008-10-21 16:34:57
263.   bferb
259 That is Chase Utley money.
2008-10-21 16:36:52
264.   ToyCannon
251
Jason Varitek would not come to LA to be a backup.
2008-10-21 16:36:54
265.   Eric Stephen
263
Only because Utley never hit the free market.
2008-10-21 16:37:20
266.   underdog
261 You know... for kids!

262 Oh jeez, and I thought mine was bad. ;-)

2008-10-21 16:39:17
267.   ToyCannon
I don't see why our Etanislao Toni Abreu cannot be our Orlando Hudson, other then the fact he missed a complete season and engaged in a tiff with upper management.
2008-10-21 16:39:29
268.   Tripon
264 Duh, Veritek would start after we trade Martin because of his 'makeup'.
2008-10-21 16:39:34
269.   Johnny Nucleo
200 K-Rod to the Mets sounds right, given their bullpen problems.
2008-10-21 16:41:34
270.   bhsportsguy
If Groucho Marx had dinner with CC Sabathia, he would call him Carsten.

http://tinyurl.com/69d2pm

2008-10-21 16:41:34
271.   Eric Stephen
267
Abreu emerging as an everyday player (and somehow proving it to the club before the free agency period begins) would be sooooo awesome.

He could have helped greatly during the "dead zone" period of our offense this season (between Furcal and Manny).

2008-10-21 16:41:43
272.   bferb
265 If he gets paid $15 million per, he would be setting an entirely new standard of paying players for defense.

Do you know of any other contract where a player with O-Dog's hitting credentials has been paid that much?

2008-10-21 16:41:58
273.   fanerman
268 First they make Martin dress up in costumes for rookie hazing and then they blame his "make-up"? It's not his fault it matches his eyes!
2008-10-21 16:47:58
274.   Eric Stephen
272
The O-Dog can hit too! His OPS+ the last 3 years is 105, with great defense (in total).

Alfonso Soriano's OPS+ the 3 years before he signed for 8/$136 was 115, with horrible defense.

Furcal signed for 3/$39 three years ago despite a career high OPS+ of 105.

Hudson, in total, is a very good player. His value is not entirely defense, and paying players of his caliber is not unprecedented.

2008-10-21 16:48:11
275.   ToyCannon
272
Wasn't the Wizard the highest paid SS? 12 years ago he made 3 Mill. Just asking I don't know the answer.
2008-10-21 16:50:18
276.   Eric Stephen
274
*Caveat: Soriano's first year in LF was fluky great (+19, 1st in MLB) and the only positive year of that stretch.
2008-10-21 16:51:10
277.   bhsportsguy
Vizquel made $3M a year with Cleveland in the mid-90s.
2008-10-21 16:51:51
278.   Eric Stephen
I want to also add I don't think it will take 5/$75 to sign the O-Dog, but that's a number I would consider paying.
2008-10-21 16:52:25
279.   El Lay Dave
274 We're talking about Hudson starting with his age 31 season. Furcal was for 28-30. Soriano for 31-38 (ouch!), and he was a LF at that point not a middle IF.
2008-10-21 16:54:45
280.   herchyzer
116 . I've been following current affairs mostly online for some time. All of the news stories I find are by the wire services. There's plenty of commentary all over, but is anyone doing actual news reporting besides the wire services? I find at the most 3 or 4 separate news stories on any breaking or recent topic.
2008-10-21 16:55:44
281.   ToyCannon
274
You know he's going to decline offensively during his early - mid 30's. So will his defense. His OBP skills seemed to have only shown up while with Arizona. Seems like a lot of money to me when I think Abreu could do that now and if not Abreu, surely DeJesus.
2008-10-21 16:56:43
282.   Eric Stephen
279
But counting Soriano as a corner OF strengthens the case for Hudson, since Soriano is not a much better hitter than Hudson at comparable points in their career, and Hudson's offense is at a premium defensive position comparatively.
2008-10-21 16:57:31
283.   Harold M Johnson
281 Agreed. I like Hudson but it's just too much money and too many years.
2008-10-21 16:58:10
284.   bferb
Maybe its an issue of general deflation in the financial markets dragging down my pricing expectations and not being ready to pay guys like that $15 million. Even at the time of Furcal's contract I thought that was way too much to pay him.

I still have this idea in my head of players getting paid $15 million or more being players who can truly impact and potentially carry a team, which generally means #3 or #4 hitters or ace starting pitchers.

2008-10-21 16:58:13
285.   Eric Stephen
281
I'm certainly OK with that, especially if it frees up Manny Money™ without touching the earmarked CC Cash®.

Oh, and don't call our future SS Shirley. :)

2008-10-21 17:00:48
286.   Eric Stephen
284
It will certainly be interesting to see how the declining financial markets affect the MLB free agency period, the first pro sport to test the new waters.

Maybe the effect won't occur until next offseason, after a season of possibly declining ticket sales in a sluggish economy.

2008-10-21 17:05:46
287.   underdog
Speaking of DeJeus, both he and LHP Brent Leach will be the Dodgers' reps at the Arizona Fall League's Rising Stars game this Friday night:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/winterleagues/stars/2008/

(Each team in the AFL gets two.)

2008-10-21 17:06:50
288.   El Lay Dave
282 Soriano had 129 and 126 OPS+ numbers at ages 26 and 27, albeit without good defense. Hudson's career high was 109 last season, which he didn't finish after he got hurt, and his Sept. numbers have always been below his overall ones. Hudson's good, but not 5/75 good.
2008-10-21 17:07:15
289.   Jim Hitchcock
286 Just imagine how many season tickets are bought up by corporations.
2008-10-21 17:08:48
290.   Bob Timmermann
289
AIG could still afford to advertise on the walls in the LF and RF corners at Dodger Stadium for the whole year.
2008-10-21 17:10:01
291.   Tripon
Guess McCourt could never sell naming rights to Bank of American Stadium.
2008-10-21 17:11:46
292.   El Lay Dave
286 Interesting. I imagine teams set next season's payroll targets based on next season's expected revenues. If they project economic slump resulting in reduced revenue streams....

BTW, with both NY teams opening new revenue streams, er, stadia, I expect them to be serious FA players, more so than usual. To me, Teixeira to the Yankees makes a lot of sense. They save $17M by buying out Giambi, and Tex can actually play 1B and brings his power bat. Abreu may be/is gone and Matsui's getting no younger. And if the Mets thought they could play Moises Alou in LF, Manny is a no-brainer.

2008-10-21 17:11:56
293.   Jim Hitchcock
291 I hope not! It originated in San Francisco as Bank of Italy.
2008-10-21 17:16:51
294.   Bob Timmermann
The only place I know that has a sports facility named after B of A is the basketball arena at U Dub.

It's officially Bank of America Arena at Hec Edmundson Pavilion.

I remember one year when the Lakers were playing the Sonics in the playoffs and they had to move the game to Hec Edmundson Pavilion. The Lakers asked that the baskets be measured before the game because they didn't think they were 10' high.

This was back when Seattle had an NBA team.

I'll the kids here about those days.

2008-10-21 17:20:02
295.   Tripon
Seattle will have another NBA team once the Charlotte Bobcats finally just give up.

Breaking news! Larry Brown hates all his players.

2008-10-21 17:22:49
296.   Marty
Won't MLB distribute record revenues earned this season to the teams next year? So that if there is a reduction in revenues, it will not hit them until 2010?
2008-10-21 17:33:54
297.   D4P
I'll the kids here about those days

MadLibs...After Dark!

2008-10-21 17:38:40
298.   Bob Timmermann
It's not dark here yet.
2008-10-21 17:41:33
299.   D4P
Well, it was dark there earlier today, so this is after that.
2008-10-21 17:49:12
300.   Harold M Johnson
This may have been mentioned, but it seems like the new version of Morning Briefing is "Wake up Call", part of their new sports blog:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/wakeup_call/index.html

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-10-21 17:59:47
301.   68elcamino427
284
286

Might briefly review the performance of the national economy and the length of time needed for the "bounce back" factor for the recessions of 1979 and 1991 (79 eight years - 91 four years) in compiling your monetary projections.
The set of circumstances that we are faced with now are unprecedented since the crash of 1929 imho

2008-10-21 18:49:47
302.   Tripon
Good news! Mark Prior is able to play catch!
2008-10-21 19:36:37
303.   dsfan
Any time Olney or Plaschke or another press guy uses Dodgers "insiders" to slam Kemp or now Martin I can hear Bowa whispering in the background.
2008-10-21 19:51:25
304.   68elcamino427
303
That's Tommy humming Mack the Knife
2008-10-21 19:52:50
305.   Tripon
303 More like Lasorda.

I don't know, maybe the Dodgers front office really is fractured, but if it is that also means that trades are less likely to happen. As for trading Martin or Kemp, I doubt Logan White would accept that because he knows there is nobody to quickly back them up.

2008-10-21 20:27:46
306.   Tripon
Delwyn Young is scheduled to undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right elbow tomorrow to remove a spur in the back of the elbow and reposition the ulnar nerve that has been giving him trouble when he throws. Young, who went on the disabled list this season, won't be able to throw for six weeks.

Okay, I guess he wasn't healthy enough to make the post season roster.

http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/mlb/dodgers/

2008-10-21 20:52:38
307.   John Hale
294
As a season ticket holder in Bank of America Arena in Hec Edmunson Pavillion I thank the griddle for that fun fact. I had no idea the Sonics ever played there let alone a playoff game. I knew they played in the Kingdome, TacomaDome, and other arenas around town. Todays big announcment in the emerald city was that Seattle U is going to play their games in Key Arena as they attempt to return to Div I. I guess Eligin Baylor is available for reunions.
2008-10-21 20:55:52
308.   Eric Stephen
306
Or, the Dodgers were really committed to the lie at that point. :)
2008-10-21 21:41:00
309.   scareduck
286 - aren't ticket sales are down across MLB (about 1%) 2007 to 2008?
2008-10-21 21:42:41
310.   LogikReader
I see from Eric's last post he wasn't at the Lakers preseason game nearby tonight.

Oof, did anyone see Kobe's knee bump into that new guy? I heard "hyperextended knee." I hope it isn't serious.

2008-10-21 21:49:11
311.   Eric Stephen
310
I was thinking about going, but it was hard to justify the high ticket prices for just a preseason game. Hopefully, I will be able to catch one game in LA this season.
2008-10-21 21:49:15
312.   trainwreck
310
Didn't look bad.
2008-10-21 22:10:14
313.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Plaschke has gone round the bend.

His current column doesn't deal with the Dodgers. But it's his plan to save the World Series.

By making it more like the Super Bowl!

I can refer you to a good doctor who can work on your gouged out eyes.

2008-10-21 22:24:09
314.   Tripon
313 You mean hold all tickets for corporate sponsors and have the most boring crowds possible?
2008-10-21 23:14:34
315.   Harold M Johnson
Plaschke just went round the bend now?
2008-10-21 23:22:33
316.   Andrew Shimmin
Pen-stealing is all fun and games until somebody gets stabbed in the neck. Fair warning.
2008-10-21 23:39:37
317.   Tripon
316 Is pen-stealing worse than burning a house down, or stealing your neighbor's newspaper?
2008-10-21 23:48:03
318.   Andrew Shimmin
Depends on the pen.
2008-10-22 00:01:02
319.   Tripon
Lucas May, the Dodgers' catching prospect at Class AA Jacksonville this past season and a possible candidate to become next year's backup catcher, is blogging from the Arizona Fall League.

One thing May hasn't blogged about yet is his game yesterday that included him catching all eight innings of yesterday's 28-1 loss, striking out looking in each of his three plate appearances and also committing a throwing error that scored a run. Surprise!
http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/

2008-10-22 05:54:23
320.   Ken Noe
313 World Series players get rings in boxes.

Willy Aybar may soon have a ring in a box.

Like Juan Pierre.

The World Series needs a ring in a box.

2008-10-22 06:31:24
321.   Ken Noe
Phillies beat writer Rob Maaddi shore thinks us simple mountain folks is quaint. You'uns kin still make fun of our accents and everything. Don't it beat all! I got me one of them thare PhDs but I reckon I'm still just as hillbilly as ol' Charlie Manuel.

http://tinyurl.com/5poug9

2008-10-22 06:49:47
322.   old dodger fan
Why he's from Buena Vista. It's just a stones throw from Mistah Jeff eh son's uni veh sity.
2008-10-22 08:00:26
323.   mwhite06
307 What is Seattle U's plan for moving up to Division 1? If memory serves, they were trying to get into the West Coast Conference, but were not admitted. As an alumni of a WCC school in the Northwest, it would be nice to expand the conference to include Seattle, but the problem would be finding another team to enter. I had heard University of Denver (which would be geographically isolated) or University of the Pacific (which would be yet another bay area California school) would have been the other school to balance out, but neither one really fit the conference's profile.
2008-10-22 08:09:31
324.   Kevin Lewis
Where was that list of the upcoming transaction deadlines?
2008-10-22 08:28:25
325.   ToyCannon
According to
http://tigers-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/10/final-elias-rankings-american-league_14.html

both Pudge and Varitek are Type A free agents. Who would sign these guys and give up their number one picks. Only a contending team would be interested in adding an old catcher and the contending teams don't have protected picks. You would think this would effect who is interested in them wouldn't you? I mean besides the decrease in productivity.

2008-10-22 08:30:20
326.   Kevin Lewis
325

Varitek as Type A? Does that use career stats or just this year?

2008-10-22 08:34:27
327.   Eric Stephen
326
It's last two years.
2008-10-22 08:36:34
328.   Eric Stephen
324
Per BHSportsGuy:

Key Off-Season Dates to Remember

Free agent filing period, first 15 days after World Series ends. Earliest date this begins is Monday Octobre 27, latest is Friday October 31. During this period, players may only negotiate with the last team they played for.

Nov. 3-6, 2008
General Managers Meetings, Dana Point, Calif.

Nov. 11 - Nov. 15 Open Free Agency begins, players can now negotiate with any team. (earliest, last date)

Nov. 20, 2008
Day to file reserve lists for all Minor League levels and Major Leagues

Dec. 1, 2008
Last date for former club to offer salary arbitration to ranked free agents in order to be eligible for compensation. (Note that if a Type A or B free agent signs with another team prior to or on this day, the compensation is automatically awarded.)

Dec. 7, 2008
Last date for player who declared free agency to accept an arbitration offer from former club.

Dec. 8-11, 2008
Winter Meetings, Las Vegas

Dec. 11, 2008
Rule 5 Draft

Dec. 12, 2008
Last date to tender contracts for 2009

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/important_dates.jsp

2008-10-22 08:43:33
329.   Kevin Lewis
326

And I just revealed my ignorance in regards to free agent status. So, there has to be a certain number of type A's? So, if you have a pool of mediocre players, 20% of those players will be type A?

2008-10-22 08:44:24
330.   kinbote
Dec. 8-11, 2008 Winter Meetings, Las Vegas

Headlines you might see:

"Phightin' Phils gamble on Manny in bid to repeat"

"Mets look to double down with Hudson & K-Rod"

"Will Arizona split their aces?"

"Cards are counting on Ludwick . . ."

(Shouldn't someone be chopping wood for the hot stove?)

2008-10-22 08:45:31
331.   Kevin Lewis
328

Thanks

2008-10-22 08:46:12
332.   Eric Stephen
326
Catchers are ranked in each of these categories:

PA, BA, OBP, HR, RBI, FPCT, Assists

Every catcher on the active roster at the end of the year counts, and given points much like the AP college polls (N for 1st place, N-1 for 2nd, ...). The total points are divided by the total possible points, such that the highest possible score is 100.

There is some injury adjustment too, but I'm not sure how that factors in.

2008-10-22 08:47:19
333.   Eric Stephen
329
It's actually 20% of all players that are Type A (20-30 are Type B). Not all are free agents.
2008-10-22 08:49:29
334.   cargill06
Dec. 8-11, 2008 Winter Meetings, Las Vegas

Ned don't get liqoured up and make trades at the craps table.

2008-10-22 08:49:39
335.   Eric Stephen
330
"Boston rolls out Dice-K plan..."

Hopefully we don't see "Colletti craps out" :)

2008-10-22 08:50:27
336.   cargill06
332 Nice to see they look at all the important stats, like slugging for example.
2008-10-22 08:56:06
337.   kinbote
335 That "Phightin''" was for you. Or at least I think it was: there are a lot of Erics around here.
2008-10-22 08:58:32
338.   cargill06
What would you do if you were Xeifrank? Would you put like $500 on Phi. to ensure you win at least $500 either way? I would if someone says he's $500 you'd be foolish not to take it right?
2008-10-22 09:00:33
339.   LogikReader
Is Mel Karmazin (sp?) the Ned Colletti of Radio Broadcasting Executives?

In the last five years, he overpaid for every big name in the book that's past his or her prime. Howard Stern, for example, Cousin Bruce Morrow, Martha Stewart, and all those MTV VeeJays.

Reminds me of Ned and the winter meetings.

2008-10-22 09:01:54
340.   Eric Stephen
337
Thanks. You must have seen my Facebook status before Game 3. :)

I am rooting phor the Rays to win, especially since Chris Coste will be the DH tonight. That's just throwing the Matt Stairs HR right back in our face!

2008-10-22 09:05:12
341.   delias man
338 Do you ever have any luck betting the o/u in baseball?
2008-10-22 09:05:19
342.   Eric Stephen
338
I'm not sure what the line is on the series now, but if it's 7-5 Rays he would be guaranteed $680 with a $500 bet.

If the Rays win, he gets $3000 - $500 = $2500

If the Phils win, he gets $700 - $20 = $680

I think he's gonna ride it out, because that's a cooler story to tell. :)

2008-10-22 09:08:17
343.   Bob Timmermann
An Old Friend gets a big hit in the Central League playoffs in Japan:
http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=13329
2008-10-22 09:08:23
344.   kinbote
According to the Boston Herald, via Rotoworld, the Red Sox are "monitoring" Brad Penny. That's all it says.

I'm still not 100% convinced we'll decline his option. I know others here are, but I'll believe it when I see it.

2008-10-22 09:08:31
345.   silverwidow
Red Sox could be 'monitoring' Brad Penny (Boston Herald).
2008-10-22 09:09:01
346.   Eric Stephen
338 ,342
If the odds are 7-5 Rays, a $1,258.33 bet on the Phillies would guarantee a payout to Xei of $1,741.67 either way.
2008-10-22 09:09:51
347.   silverwidow
344 Looks like we read the same site. :)
2008-10-22 09:10:19
348.   kinbote
343 Isn't he the Japanese Ron Coomer? I forget.
2008-10-22 09:11:09
349.   D4P
343
''It was a forkball. I was able to hit it nicely''
2008-10-22 09:12:58
350.   Eric Stephen
Here's an article on Old Friend Edwin Jackson, from the perspective of his hometown (Columbus, GA):

http://tinyurl.com/597cyb

I linked only for this E-Jax quote:

"This is a dream come true," he yelled. "It's unbelievable, but I can believe it."

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-10-22 09:15:30
351.   kinbote
347 Sorry. I swear I've read every comment. Ask me anything! :)
2008-10-22 09:20:41
352.   kinbote
345 "Monitoring Brad Penny": From the people who brought you "Being John Malkovich."

351 I'm only dense on-line. This off-season I vow to undergo intense retinal retraining that will enable me to post better comments than ever before. I hope some site takes a chance on me. I believe I can really turn my posting career around.

2008-10-22 09:21:07
353.   Kevin Lewis
351

What time is the softball game :)

2008-10-22 09:23:58
354.   Eric Stephen
Tonight is the first lefty-lefty starting pitcher matchup in a WS Game 1 since Al Leiter opposed Andy Pettitte in Game 1 of the 2000 Series.
2008-10-22 09:26:02
355.   kinbote
353 I don't know, but everyone wants to DH!
2008-10-22 09:26:12
356.   kinbote
353 I don't know, but everyone wants to DH!
2008-10-22 09:26:40
357.   underdog
Talk about a new one to get a "scoop"!

>>Planet Padres ran into Mark Prior (and family) at a local pumpkin patch in Mission Valley, and had a chance to have a very informal, unofficial, quick conversation with him.<<

http://tinyurl.com/65ntom

2008-10-22 09:27:34
358.   Sushirabbit
I've got a thermos full of phlegm for Plaschke's Tapioca brain.
2008-10-22 09:28:21
359.   underdog
A new way, rather.

I need coffee...

And the Cubs are still looking for a left handed bat. Hello, Juan Pierre!

2008-10-22 09:30:06
360.   Eric Stephen
357
I've driven by that pumpkin patch!

I've actually never purchased a pumpkin in my life. I'm kind of proud of that fact. I do like pictures of kids in a pumpkin patch though; those are cute. Do you think the proprietors of a pumpkin patch would get mad if people just brought their kids to take pictures amongst the pumpkins, without the intention of buying anything?

2008-10-22 09:30:39
361.   ToyCannon
Given the cost of the contract and option it would be silly for the Dodgers not to exercise it. We may have some disgruntled players come this spring but they have contracts and they need to be ready to play or not play as may be the case for either Jones or Pierre.
2008-10-22 09:31:47
362.   ToyCannon
360
I buy pumpkins just so I can rip our their guts and carve up their faces.
2008-10-22 09:32:43
363.   Eric Stephen
I actually read the Plaschke article for a change, and I love the fact that he wants to make the World Series like the Super Bowl, yet one of his complaints is that he can't see the faces of the young Tampa Bayans underneath their masks (due to the cold).

1) How many WS games has it actually been cold enough for players to wear these?

2) Don't football players have their faces obstructed by, ummm, HELMETS???

2008-10-22 09:34:21
364.   Eric Stephen
362
I stand corrected...I went to a carving party one year and bought a pumpkin for that. My Homer Simpson carving looked good though.
2008-10-22 09:35:17
365.   kinbote
The Red Sox have a "perpetual" $4 million option on Tim Wakefield's contract? Is that common? Bob?

360 For a good 10-15 years of my life, we'd always get pumpkins at the great produce market on Jefferson (across from the new Playa Vista developments). I'm drawing a blank on the name. I think it's gone now.

2008-10-22 09:38:03
366.   wronghanded
It is looking like the Braves are going to net Peavy for Tommy Hanson and Jordan Schafer. I for one am glad to see Peavy out of the NL West and this move alone should reduce the Dodger's losses next year by about 3 since Peavy is a Dodger killer.
2008-10-22 09:38:41
367.   ToyCannon
363
I also hate watching baseball played in cold weather. In football you are always moving, even in SoCal I hated playing winter softball late at night. I can't even imagine standing around in Fenway in late October waiting for Joe Blow to throw a pitch.
2008-10-22 09:38:45
368.   kinbote
363 Yeah, but it would be "World Series Week."

So it would be better.

Because right now it's not good.

It's bad.

2008-10-22 09:39:59
369.   cargill06
346 That would be the right play in my opinion.
2008-10-22 09:40:03
370.   Kevin Lewis
I am pretty sure my son is going to love playing with the "guts" of the pumpkin. I just need to lay down some newspaper and put on a rain poncho to avoid the flying debris.
2008-10-22 09:42:22
371.   cargill06
366 I'm not advocating, I'm just asking. Wouldn't Lambo and MacDonald be a better package than that?
2008-10-22 09:43:17
372.   regfairfield
365 Wakefield is the only person in baseball with that. He has the worst agent ever.
2008-10-22 09:44:48
373.   wronghanded
371 I think the Pads need a ML ready outfielder, is Lambo ready to make that kind of a leap?
2008-10-22 09:45:29
374.   BlueCrew Bruin
363 Yeah, most of his ideas were pretty lame, especially having the series at a neutral site. It would be a shame if the only fans of a WS team that could attend the games are people who could afford to go on a week-long vacation to some warm weather city.

I do agree that baseball needs to do a better job of marketing teams and the games to national audiences but I don't think the hype could ever reach Super Bowl or Final Four levels just for the simple reason that those games are all do-or-die while in the World Series, unless it's an elimination game, there's always tomorrow.

2008-10-22 09:45:38
375.   D4P
He has the worst agent ever

Maybe so, but there aren't many people in the world who get paid multiple millions of dollars a year to throw a baseball 65 MPH.

2008-10-22 09:45:48
376.   kinbote
372 Thanks. Do you know how many times it has been exercised?
2008-10-22 09:46:02
377.   Eric Stephen
369
I think so too.
2008-10-22 09:46:16
378.   cargill06
373 Why would they want a ML ready OF'er? They won't be competitive this year, why waste service time?
2008-10-22 09:47:28
379.   Eric Stephen
376
The original $4m contract was in 2006, and the options have been exercised for both 2007 & 2008 thus far.
2008-10-22 09:53:44
380.   cargill06
If anyone plays online cash games, you should check this site out. It's like a scouting report on every single online player.

www.tableratings.com

2008-10-22 09:54:33
381.   wronghanded
378 You have to give your fans something of immediate impact if you're dealing your best player.
2008-10-22 09:56:03
382.   kinbote
{In best Chris Farley voice} So, you guys remember when we declined Angel Berroa's option? That was awesome.
2008-10-22 09:56:47
383.   underdog
For me personally, I'm going to wait in the pumpkin patch for the Great Pumpkin to arrive. He'll bring gifts to all the children who believe in him.
2008-10-22 09:57:24
384.   wronghanded
380 Are we still able to play poker online in the U.S.? If so, what site(s)?
2008-10-22 10:00:11
385.   Bob Timmermann
383
The pumpkin patch has to be humble.
2008-10-22 10:00:28
386.   cargill06
384 I play absolutepoker.com
2008-10-22 10:02:17
387.   Jim Hitchcock
365 Lopez Ranch!
2008-10-22 10:02:56
388.   wronghanded
are you still able to cash out to your account? I used to play at pokerroom.com all the time, then that stupid law got passed.
2008-10-22 10:07:52
389.   Eric Stephen
Is it wrong that I've never seen "It's the Great Pumpkin Patch, Charlie Brown."?
2008-10-22 10:07:55
390.   silverwidow
366 Tommy Hanson has amazing stats. Didn't realize he was THAT good.
2008-10-22 10:08:40
391.   underdog
389 Okay, that and Freaks and Geeks -- there's your weekend laid out for you.
2008-10-22 10:14:20
392.   wronghanded
390 Yeah, I doubt he becomes Peavy but he'll definitely help them down the road. Schafer looks like that typical high-OBP Depo-type player.
2008-10-22 10:14:59
393.   Kevin Lewis
389

I'm with you on that one.

2008-10-22 10:15:55
394.   Eric Stephen
391
The good thing about Freaks & Geeks is that it's, what, 18 episodes or so? That seems doable in a quick fashion.

When I was catching up on 24 (I didn't start watching until Season 5), I once watched an entire season in one weekend (Sat/Sun).

2008-10-22 10:17:42
395.   underdog
394 - Indeed, though it's also fun to savor them a bit and spread them out. And then there's some great commentary on the DVDs, too.

--

Okay, MLB Trade Rumors just put up their Dodgers Offseason Outlook write-up. Hot off the "press":

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/offseason-ou-13.html

2008-10-22 10:18:49
396.   regfairfield
392 He got busted for roids earlier this year so his power potential isn't as good as it once was. Plus you can't like those strikeouts. I really hope the Padres make this move.
2008-10-22 10:20:27
397.   cargill06
388 I cashed out as recetnely as last Monday and recieved my check by Wed. or Thur.
2008-10-22 10:21:06
398.   Kevin Lewis
395

The salaries next to Pierre, Jones, and Schmidt are very depressing compared to the rest of the team.

2008-10-22 10:24:53
399.   wronghanded
396 Agreed, doesn't that seem like a small return for Peavy?

397 Thanks for the info. I'll probably try to set up an account and give it a roll, what tables do you typically play?

2008-10-22 10:27:55
400.   Jacob Burch
After the superaccount scandal, I refuse to play on AP. Granted, it was only seemed to deal with games way above me, but it soured the site for sure.

Then again, I seem to only play online to mess around and play three times as many hands as I should. My stats on any tracking site are really funny, especially if its one that keeps track of triple slash stats.

One day I'll care about winning again, but it'll probably be at a B&M.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-10-22 10:31:00
401.   Kevin Lewis
400

B&M's are the only places I can care about winning or even want to really focus and play. But then I played so many times at local B&M's that I got tired of the scene. It is probably because I would play 8-10 hour sessions at a time. I just can't handle the grind around that type of crowd.

2008-10-22 10:32:35
402.   regfairfield
399 Yeah, I think that if you're trading for people that don't at least have the potential to be as good as what you're giving up, it's a bad trade. Hanson has good numbers but he wasn't even a top 100 prospect so there's probably something wrong there, and Schafer gets a lot less interesting without the roids.
2008-10-22 10:33:25
403.   cargill06
399 $1/$2 NL, I started playing more often once the season ended, I need something to do to pass the off-season time. They may have some refer a friend promo, if you set up an account and they do have that promo my name is Cargill06 there maybe money in it for the both of us.
2008-10-22 10:35:41
404.   Eric Stephen
400 ,401
B&M = "brick and mortar"?

Just checking.

2008-10-22 10:35:42
405.   Jon Weisman
Two new posts up top.
2008-10-22 10:35:55
406.   cargill06
400 Two questions,

1. What was the superaccount scandal?

2. What is B&M?

2008-10-22 10:45:34
407.   Zak
406 1. Here, read this link

http://www.justingoff.com/?p=90

Ultimate Bet was also implicated in a similar scandal recently, but I didn't read up much about it, to be honest. I only play on FTP and PS now. They're bigger than other sites, have softer games, and because of their size and worldwide reputation, they have a lot of reason to be diligent about superusers kind of scandals to happen. Doesn't mean it can't happen... but if I have to trust someone in online poker, I'd go FTP or PS.

2. Eric is right, it is Brick and Mortar.

Thanks for the link to Table Rankings... interesting site, but it doesn't help me much because they do not track Pokerstars where I mostly play.

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