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Ng Won't Be Sleepless in Seattle
2008-10-22 12:30
by Jon Weisman

The Seattle Mariners have chosen Jack Zduriencik of Milwaukee as their new general manager over the Dodgers' Kim Ng and others.

* * *

Check out the Sons of Steve Garvey 2008 Dodgers Yearbook.

Comments (168)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-22 12:48:24
1.   PalmdaleSteve1
That's bad for Kim Ng, but good for the Dodgers. Does anyone think that San Fran Nick will be around much longer than one more season?

The Dodgers will need a new GM sooner rather than later.

2008-10-22 13:17:18
2.   ToyCannon
Feel sorry for Kim, it would have been a great story. I wonder how Dodger upper management can work together with a common purpose when Logan and Ng know the only way they have a shot at Ned's job is if he fails and their flak jackets defray the blame game. I know people are supposed to be bigger then that but hey they are human.
2008-10-22 13:24:56
3.   Eric Enders
That's awesome. I guess I should feel bad for Kim Ng, but I have bigger plans for her. Like GM of the Dodgers.

Plus I don't trust Colletti to be able to figure out what to do about his 12 free agents (or whatever it is) this offseason without help.

2008-10-22 13:25:17
4.   Tripon
has co-GMs ever worked out for anybody?
2008-10-22 13:27:25
5.   Eric Enders
4- Not that I know of. I guess the Red Sox did OK with it for a few months before they coaxed Epstein back.
2008-10-22 13:28:32
6.   Tripon

Meanwhile Schilling rips Manny again for... threatening not to play for the Red Sox if they didn't trade him. If this is true, why the heck is it coming out now and not then?

2008-10-22 13:29:04
7.   68elcamino427
Yeah - whomever is the "holds" the title of GM with the Dodgers will always do as Mr. McCourt decrees.
2008-10-22 13:31:39
8.   Eric Enders
Well, I guess if anyone's an expert on not playing for the Red Sox, it's Schilling.
2008-10-22 13:35:05
9.   underdog
Why is Manny considered tiresome by the media but Schilling's constant, repetitive rants are okey-dokey again?
2008-10-22 13:36:36
10.   adrian beltre
as keith law said, i can think of one difference between the two that might be a reason.
2008-10-22 13:37:37
11.   regfairfield
Schilling is a gamer, that's why.
2008-10-22 13:38:30
12.   Tripon
10 Schilling is a pitcher, and Manny is a left fielder?
2008-10-22 13:40:58
13.   Humma Kavula
11 Schilling most certainly is a gamer.

2008-10-22 13:42:20
14.   underdog
11 That's one word for it...

10 Indeed.

2008-10-22 13:42:42
15.   Eric Stephen
Random Thought of the Day...

The Dodgers have never played a game on October 22.

In 1988, the final game of the World Series was October 20.

The only year in which the Dodgers played a game later than October 22 was 1981. The Dodgers won the final four games of the series on October 23-25 & 28.

2008-10-22 13:48:15
16.   cargill06
Tigers want pitching, and they're willing to give up Mags. Penny for Mags, done and done.
2008-10-22 13:53:01
17.   cargill06
The Jays have money to spend and while it could go to A.J. Burnett, they could shift their focus from Burnett to a hitter if the pitcher doesn't re-sign -- and make a serious run at Rafael Furcal, who could be a perfect fit for them in many ways. The Royals are also considering Furcal.

2008-10-22 14:19:45
18.   Eric Stephen
Assuming draft & signs (like Victorino) count, I can't find a World Series with more former Dodgers than the 5 that could appear in this series.

2008: Aybar, Jackson, Navarro, Victorino, Werth
2000: Cook, Harris, Piazza, Vizcaino, Zeile
1990: Duncan, Honeycutt, Randolph, Stewart, Welch

Bad news for the Rays: in each of the previous two times, the team with more former Dodgers lost the series.

2008-10-22 14:23:05
19.   superbas
17 furcal's back wouldn't last on astro-turf.

i can think of a perfect fit for kim ng to be the gm in '10.

2008-10-22 14:24:28
20.   Tripon
Want to make the world series? Try to sign or trade for former Dodgers.

Want to make sure you miss the world series?

Try to sign sign or trade for former Cubs.

2008-10-22 14:39:05
21.   Indiana Jon
18 All those former players, but it's the two that were drafted and got away that really hurt (Utley and Price).
2008-10-22 14:41:07
22.   Eric Enders
18 If Victorino counts, then so does John Franco, who pitched for the Mets in the 2000 Series.

Any chance Ruggiano makes TB's World Series roster?

2008-10-22 14:43:05
23.   bluegold
Signing Pierre as a centerfielder, and then signing Jones to make up for Pierre's lack of a throwing arm and batting power? Would Ng as GM ever do something like that? Would any GM ever do that?

Ng would make a fine next Dodger GM.

2008-10-22 14:43:09
24.   wronghanded
According to we have about $48 million coming off the books in '09 (most $$$ in the league). I know its a pipe dream but would Sabathia, Manny and Furcal be attainable next year? CC would basically replace Lowe and our playoff team would stay intact.
2008-10-22 14:44:49
25.   Eric Enders
The issue with Manny is not going to be his salary, but the length of the contract. We certainly have more than enough room for him on next year's payroll. The question is whether we want to be paying him $25 million to suck in 2013.
2008-10-22 14:45:14
26.   Tripon
24 There's a $5 million dollar bonus to Furcal coming to him in Jan. 09. We really have $43 million.
2008-10-22 14:46:21
27.   regfairfield
Kim Ng's one move as Dodger GM was signing Jose Cruz Jr. for four million dollars.

Just saying.

2008-10-22 14:49:33
28.   Eric Enders
27 A guy who switch-hit .251/.366/.478 for $4 million? Sign me up.
2008-10-22 14:50:44
29.   bigcpa
24 If mgmt was even remotely contemplating that, I would lock up Manny early and use him to recruit CC. Then he gets run support to go with his 70+ ab's and SoCal address. The Angels can only offer him one of those 3.
2008-10-22 14:52:19
30.   bhsportsguy
27 As Asst. GM, she was creditied for the deal for Marlon Anderson.

28 Maybe that was Depo's plan too. :)

2008-10-22 14:52:44
31.   JoeyP
Thats too bad for Kim Ng.

And an even worse choice for the Mariners.
Wow, just terrible.

If they wanted to keep an old school scouting based GM, they should have just kept Bavasi.

2008-10-22 14:53:51
32.   superbas
can we convince manny to go the andruw route and take 2/50-60mil instead of a 4-5 year deal for 80-100mil? after the 2 years he can go to the al and be a dh. that seems more realistic than outbidding the yankees for cc.
2008-10-22 14:54:04
33.   regfairfield
31 He was the first ever non-GM named executive of the year by Baseball America and is pretty much responsible for the Brewers' organization. The guy has way more credentials than Ng.
2008-10-22 14:54:23
34.   bluegold
25. If with Manny we win one WS between 2009-2012, then YES he should be paid 25million to suck in 2013.
2008-10-22 14:55:07
35.   Jon Weisman
28 - I wonder if they ever found Cruz's brother. I don't recall any resolution to that story.
2008-10-22 14:56:03
36.   Eric Enders
The Mariners probably did OK. Jack Z is the guy who acquired the likes of Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hart, and Gallardo for Milwaukee. It's sort of akin to hiring Logan White. There's no reason to believe he'll be an "old school" GM.
2008-10-22 14:56:49
37.   JoeyP
Why is Manny considered tiresome by the media but Schilling's constant, repetitive rants are okey-dokey again?

Manny loafs in the OF from time to time?
Schilling doesnt?

It has to do with their on the field player (and Manny's perceived loafing in the OF), than anything else.

2008-10-22 14:58:07
38.   Bob Timmermann
One of baseball's unsolved mysteries. Just like trying to figure out why Chris Brown died of burns suffered in an unoccupied home.
2008-10-22 14:59:13
39.   bhsportsguy
22 We know Joel Guzman won't be on it.
2008-10-22 15:00:48
40.   bhsportsguy
39 That was a bit snarky for me to say, sorry JTD.
2008-10-22 15:00:49
41.   Eric Enders
35 , 38 Do all of baseball's unsolved mysteries happen in Houston?

The Chris Brown thing was really weird. I guess there was never any resolution to that?

2008-10-22 15:03:14
42.   cargill06
Frank McCourt will be on 710 in 15 minutes. It'll be up to you to figure out if he's on his way to Long Beach or will be on the radio.
2008-10-22 15:08:53
43.   bhsportsguy
33 He was also the head of international scouting for the Dodgers in 1999.
2008-10-22 15:09:35
44.   Jon Weisman
42 -

American Airlines flight 710 goes from Dallas to New York City (LaGuardia).

United flight 710 goes from San Francisco to Reno.

Delta #710 goes from Atlanta to Boston.

Continental does not have a flight 710. Dun dun dunnnnn.

2008-10-22 15:11:40
45.   regfairfield
43 International guys we got around then: Kuo, Willy Aybar, Chin Feng Chen, Franquelis Osoria

Not a bad track record.

2008-10-22 15:13:09
46.   regfairfield
43 According to BA he worked for the Mets that year.
2008-10-22 15:15:01
47.   bhsportsguy
This is not our Bob.

2008-10-22 15:16:10
48.   Eric Enders
"Chen was scouted by Jack Zduriencik, the team's director of international operations, and Asian scout Acey Kohrogi. Other teams were hot on Chen's trail and it cost the Dodgers $680,000 to sign him."

LAT 9/26/99 p.D5

2008-10-22 15:17:36
49.   bhsportsguy
A veteran of 24 years in professional baseball, Zduriencik has worked with four Major League organizations. Prior to joining the Brewers, he was Director of International Scouting and Special Assistant to the General Manager for the Los Angeles Dodgers in 1999.
2008-10-22 15:19:11
50.   regfairfield
I blame this:
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-22 15:20:05
51.   Kevin Lewis

That guys wife is incredibly understanding.

2008-10-22 15:20:48
52.   Humma Kavula
47 / 51 I was just gonna say -- not our Bob? That Bob is lucky that he's ANYBODY's Bob.
2008-10-22 15:21:01
53.   bhsportsguy
Kuo was signed in June 1999. Aybar in January 2000.
2008-10-22 15:23:00
54.   Bob Timmermann
You know. I actually go out and socialize with other human beings. I even talk to people when I keep score.

I don't score at home.

2008-10-22 15:23:08
55.   regfairfield
53 I don't know the exact dates he worked, so he might not have been responsible for either.
2008-10-22 15:25:07
56.   Samhain
Logan White publicly said he was okay with including Santana in the Blake trade, and now White is a non-person here?

I'd say HE remains the heir-apparent Dodger GM, not Kim Ng.

For what it's worth, I'd say Ng signed off on the Blake trade too; so why isn't she tarred with the same brush as Logan White?

2008-10-22 15:26:43
57.   Eric Enders
55 "Before Jack Zduriencik left the Dodgers to become the Brewers' scouting director, one of his last significant moves was to sign Kuo for $1.25 million."

2008-10-22 15:27:14
58.   cargill06
56 That was the first I heard about that about White in the Santana deal. In the 3 months since the trade went down I haven't seen one post criticizing White for this.
2008-10-22 15:27:22
59.   bhsportsguy
55 He was hired by Milwaukee almost 9 years ago.

I am sure he was there for Chen and Kuo.

2008-10-22 15:27:32
60.   JoeyP
For all of the top 10 picks the Brewers have had over the last decade, it doesnt appear as if Jack Zduriencik did all that much better than another GM could have done.

Its almost as if the worse the MLB team does, the better the scouting director will look over time.

2008-10-22 15:28:56
61.   bhsportsguy
60 Well you could look down south.
2008-10-22 15:31:11
62.   Jon Weisman
There is one vehemently anti-Logan poster here that I know of, but that's it I believe.
2008-10-22 15:31:20
63.   Eric Enders
58 "That was the first I heard about that about White in the Santana deal. In the 3 months since the trade went down I haven't seen one post criticizing White for this."

Probably because nobody really knows whether he approved of the deal. I mean, if he likes his job, obviously he was going to say he approved of the trade whether he actually did or not.

2008-10-22 15:32:36
64.   regfairfield
60 He got Hart, Hardy, Gallardo, Hall, and Parra outside of the first round.

Considering how many blown picks there are, you have to give a guy credit when they pan out.

2008-10-22 15:33:55
65.   cargill06
63 Did you really have to go and re-post my bad english?
2008-10-22 15:40:37
66.   Eric Enders
60 "For all of the top 10 picks the Brewers have had over the last decade, it doesnt appear as if Jack Zduriencik did all that much better than another GM could have done."

This is... well... extremely false. Extremely false.

Let's compare the the Brewers' recent top-ten choices with the guys who were drafted immediately before & after

Zack Greinke
Prince Fielder
Scott Moore

Delmon Young
Rickie Weeks
Kyle Sleeth

Jeff Niemann
Mark Rogers
Jeremy Sowers

Ryan Zimmerman
Ryan Braun
Ricardo Romero


Ross Detwiler
Matt LaPorta
Casey Weathers


In each case, Milwaukee got the best of the three players, except for Mark Rogers who hurt his arm almost immediately.

You can get all the top 10 picks in the world, but it still takes a lot of skill to take advantage of them as Milwaukee has. And that's before even considering steals like Gallardo in the 2nd round and Hart in the 11th.

2008-10-22 15:42:36
67.   ToyCannon
I don't see how any of upper management should be taking a bullet for the Blake / Santana deal. They were under orders to upgrade the team without adding salary. To do so they had to kick in some talent. It was the cost of doing business in 2009 at the trading deadline with an owner reluctant to add salary.

Now if you want to tar Ned because the budget was bloated with non performing players and that is why Frank could not add salary that is a different animal.

2008-10-22 15:43:16
68.   bhsportsguy
63 I just recall his remark after the Manny deal.

I thought there was some talk that the Dodgers thought that Santana was not going to be a catcher around the time of the trade but I don't recall any comments by Logan White specifically about that deal.

56 I have been saying the same thing for months, maybe not the tarring part but basically that this team has all of their fingerprints on it.

2008-10-22 15:43:43
69.   ToyCannon
He whiffed on Rogers that is enough for the nay sayers.
2008-10-22 15:46:46
70.   ToyCannon
Just an FYI but based on the information I've gleaned from John Sickels Minor League Blog and the rating of prospects in the different minor leagues by BA it looks like Carlos Santana would have been our top rated prospect if he was still in the organization.

I can't recall a time where a player was not in the top 20, was not drafted that year and shot up to the number one slot.

2008-10-22 15:50:20
71.   Samhain
My point about White vs. Ng--which I could have been clearer about--was that for most of the year, when so many assumed Colletti was a goner, the majority of posters here who aired opinions on Colletti's replacement talked about White as the probable next GM; given that Ng's forte was apparently contract negotiations, and Logan White was the assessor of baseball talent.

Now for no additional reason I can see, Ng seems to be widely assumed by many here to be the obvious pick for next Dodger GM. (At least today, White was hardly mentioned, if at all.)

2008-10-22 15:52:00
72.   bhsportsguy
70 Part of that has to be that BA and Sickels have never been that high on McDonald.
2008-10-22 15:54:39
73.   bhsportsguy
71 I usually you read those posts with a sense of wishful thinking on the writer's part.

I don't think there have been that many posts today about Ng or White replacing Ned.

2008-10-22 15:54:50
74.   Jon Weisman
71 - White wasn't just turned down for a job. I think that's why he wasn't prominent in today's conversation.
2008-10-22 15:55:39
75.   Tripon
68 Actually, I think the remarks were that Ned Coletti said that White agreed on putting Santana in the deal.

White did go on record on the Andy LaRoche-Manny trade that he liked it.

2008-10-22 15:56:33
76.   bhsportsguy
74 Do you find at all interesting that the Mariners did not ask for permission to speak to Logan White for the job?
2008-10-22 15:58:22
77.   Eric Stephen
Since I did this for the Dodgers a while back, I thought it would be fun to look at how the Rays were built. Here is how their current 40-man roster came about:

1) Mar 14: Signed Victor Zambrano as a FA; & Aug 15: Signed Bartolome Fortunato as an amateur FA. Both traded to the Mets on 7/30/04 for Scott Kazmir and Jose Diaz.

2&3) Drafted Toby Hall (Rd 9). Traded with Mark Hendrickson to the Dodgers on 6/27/06 for Dioner Navarro, Justin Ruggiano, and Jae Seo.

4&5)Drafted Aubrey Huff (Rd 5). Traded to Astros on 7/12/06 for Mitch Talbot & Ben Zobrist
2&3) Drafted Joe Kennedy (Rd 8). Traded to Rockies as part of a 3-team trade on 12/14/03, with the Rays receiving Mark Hendrickson. See #2&3 above.
6) Jul 8: Signed Juan Salas as an amateur FA

7) Drafted Carl Crawford (Rd 2)
8) Drafted Seth McClung (Rd 5). Traded to the Brewers on 7/28/07 for Grant Balfour
9) Drafted Jeff Ridgway (Rd 14). Traded to the Braves on 1/17/08 for Willy Aybar & Chase Fontaine.

10) Drafted Rocco Baldelli (#6 overall)
11) Drafted James Shields (Rd 16)
12) Drafted Shawn Riggans (Rd 24)

13) Drafted Fernando Cortez (Rd 9) & Joey Gathright (Rd 31). Both traded on 6/20/06 to the Royals for J.P. Howell.
14) Drafted Jonny Gomes (Rd 18)

15) Jan 11: Signed Lance Carter as a FA. Traded with Danys Baez to the Dodgers on 1/14/06 for Edwin Jackson & Chuck Tiffany
16) Drafted B.J. Upton (#2 overall; thanks Pittsburgh!)
17&18) Drafted Jason Pridie (Rd 2). Traded with Brendan Harris & Delmon Young to the Twins on 11/28/07 for Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and Eduardo Morlan
19) Drafted Jason Hammel (Rd 10)
20) Jun 29: signed Elliot Johnson as an undrafted FA

17&18) Drafted Delmon Young (#1 overall). See #17&18 above
21) Drafted James Houser (Rd 2)
22) Drafted John Jaso (Rd 12)
23) Drafted Chad Orvella (Rd 13) -- on 60-Day DL

15) Jan 6: Signed Danys Baez as a FA. See #15 above
24) Drafted Jeff Niemann (#4 overall)
25) Drafted Reid Brignac (Rd 2)
26) Drafted Fernando Perez (Rd 7)
27) Drafted Andy Sonnanstine (Rd 13)

28) Drafted Greg Reinhard (Rd 6) & Andrew Lopez (Rd 8). Both traded to the Cubs on 2/13/07 for Jae Kuk Ryu

29) Jan 10: signed Ty Wigginton as a FA. Traded to Houston on 7/28/07 for Dan Wheeler
30) Drafted Evan Longoria (#3 overall)
31) Drafted Josh Butler (Rd 2). Traded to Brewers on 4/22/08 for Gabe Gross
32) Dec 15: signed Akinori Iwamura as a FA.

33) Feb 1: Signed Carlos Peña as a minor league FA
34) Drafted David Price (#1 overall)
35) Nov 30: Signed Troy Percival as a FA
36) Dec 14: Signed Cliff Floyd as a FA

37) Feb 6: Signed Trever Miller as a FA
38) Feb 7: Signed Eric Hinske as a minor league FA
39) Apr 18: Claimed Dan Johnson off waivers from the Athletics
40) Aug 7: Acquired Chad Bradford from the Orioles for a PTBNL (will be named before winter meetings)
41) Aug 31: Acquired Michel Hernandez from the Pirates for straight cash homey.

2008-10-22 15:59:24
78.   JRSarno
Heyman has an article on a Manny deal being at 2 years, reportedly at or even above ARods' 27.5M mark. McCourt was just on 710 ESPN radio and was referring to Manny exclusively in the past tense.


2008-10-22 16:00:49
79.   regfairfield
So basically, the Rays traded Delmon Young and nothing of consequence for most of their good players.
2008-10-22 16:01:21
80.   Tripon
Joe Crawford did not make the Lakers team this year as he was waived.

Coby Karl did however make it.

2008-10-22 16:01:32
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - I don't know. White interviewed for a job in Houston that Ng didn't. Is it relevant? I imagine the interviewers are trying to get a spectrum of candidates and the mix-and-match of that spectrum will differ from team to team.

That being said, do we know that the Mariners didn't ask for permission to talk to White? I mean, I'm assuming they didn't, but it's not impossible that they did.

2008-10-22 16:04:14
82.   Jon Weisman
78 - "Heyman has an article on a Manny deal being at 2 years, reportedly at or even above ARods' 27.5M mark."

That's kind of a misleading way to summarize that article. What it's saying - citing as a source "One person who's spoken to Dodgers people" - is that the team is considering proposing such a deal.

As usual, Heyman is just passing along complete speculation.

2008-10-22 16:05:49
83.   bhsportsguy
81 I don't know, there were a lot of leaks about who they were asking permission to talk to.

79 They did dump Aubrey Huff during their salary purge and I may be the only one that thinks this but to me, the Julio Lugo deal was basically the same (salary dump) though the Dodgers still have two pitchers and the Rays have an extra outfielder from that deal.

2008-10-22 16:06:34
84.   bhsportsguy
82 You are not saying that unnamed sources are not reliable?
2008-10-22 16:06:43
85.   Bob Timmermann
I thought Joey Crawford worked for the Lakers.

That's what people in Sacramento say.

2008-10-22 16:06:53
86.   dsfan
Can see why Ng and her supporters are bummed, but she still has a great job. Seems to me the Brewers' guy is a good talent evaluator. Another thing about his drafts: He very seldom had any extra picks and I doubt the Brewers were known for busting slot, either. So there was a lot of pressure on him to hit with his picks, yet he still plucked a lot of talent. Glad to see him get the job. As for the comparison to Bavasi, not a good one. Bavasi was a farm director, not a guy charged with figuring out which high school and college players should get a lot of money. Big difference.
2008-10-22 16:07:15
87.   Jon Weisman
Farewell, Rudy Lugo. He was from my era covering high school sports.,0,844897.column?track=rss

2008-10-22 16:07:47
88.   Humma Kavula
Is it possible that Kim Ng fulfilled a responsibility to interview minority candidates for managerial positions?


1) I don't know if such a responsibility exists for GM positions.

2) I don't know the races of the other candidates.

2008-10-22 16:08:24
89.   dsfan
As for Heyman and Manny, Heyman strikes me as a mouthpiece for Boras so there may be truth in what he writes but it may be agenda driven.
2008-10-22 16:08:55
90.   bhsportsguy
88 As far as I know, unlike the NFL, MLB does not have those rules in place.
2008-10-22 16:09:09
91.   dsfan
I'm for making a big-dollar, two-year offer to Manny. Keep him hungry. If he says no, give White the two picks.
2008-10-22 16:10:15
92.   bhsportsguy
88 She would be a minority regardless of the other candidates.
2008-10-22 16:10:55
93.   Eric Stephen
I forgot to include that on 1/2/07, the Rays acquired Brendan Harris for what turned out to be cash. He was part of #17&18 above.
2008-10-22 16:11:26
94.   regfairfield
92 I don't know if someone that's part of 50% of the population counts as a minority.
2008-10-22 16:11:42
95.   JRSarno
82 - I figured you'd have some sematic quibble with the articulation of the info. As a lawyer, I'll be more careful next time with my diction.
2008-10-22 16:12:18
96.   JRSarno
semantic that is... see, I just write too fast on this thing. Get too excited that I'm not actually writing legalese for once.
2008-10-22 16:12:42
97.   Humma Kavula
92 Of course. By my caveat #2, I was saying that if such a responsibility exists, and it might not, the Mariners may have been covered already if one of the other candidates happened to be, say, African-American.
2008-10-22 16:13:01
98.   bhsportsguy
90 I take it back, the Dodgers had to go to MLB last year for a special exception to not interviewing minority candidates (or any other candidates) for their managerial job, one reason it was granted was the diversity amongst their front office.
2008-10-22 16:13:13
99.   silverwidow
It was said that Colletti dispatched White for a "last minute evaluation" on Santana and that Logan "gave his blessing" to make the trade.
2008-10-22 16:14:34
100.   Bob Timmermann
There are 97 men for every 100 women in the United States, according to the Census Bureau.

There is a margin for error of 0.1 either way.

Women live longer and are less likely to do things like shoot each other.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-22 16:15:15
101.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
85 - No its Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney, and Ted Bernhardt that work/worked for the Lakers
/will never forget that attrocious day!!!
2008-10-22 16:15:53
102.   bhsportsguy
101 If you guys had just made your free throws at home.
2008-10-22 16:16:42
103.   regfairfield
98 We felt very strongly about a white guy leading the team.
2008-10-22 16:17:08
104.   Eric Stephen
Who worked the equally atrociously officiated Game 5?
2008-10-22 16:18:51
105.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
102 - True, but Game 4 (before the Horry shot) Samaki Walker hit a half courter well after the buzzer, they counted it.

No self-respecting bball fan (or sports fan for that matter) can honestly say the officiating didn't dictate that series.

Im still bitter about it, but hey, At least we all have the Dodgers!!!

2008-10-22 16:19:33
106.   Jon Weisman
95/96 - I hope I didn't come across as a jerk about it. I just wanted to correct the impression that the two-year-deal was on the table.
2008-10-22 16:19:51
107.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
104 The NBC executives!
2008-10-22 16:22:32
108.   underdog
80 That's too bad, though I figured he'd have a tough go trying to make their roster. Wonder if he ends up in the developmental league for them.
2008-10-22 16:26:48
109.   trainwreck
She is also Chinese, so she is a minority candidate no matter what.
2008-10-22 16:33:50
110.   Humma Kavula
109 What I was trying to say, and I'll put this as delicately as possible:

It would be a terrible thing if Kim Ng was offered interviews by organizations that had no intention to hire her, simply because she fulfills obligations to interview minority candidates.

2008-10-22 16:34:23
111.   Tripon
Keith Law weighs in on Kim Ng.

To the best of my knowledge, Kim Ng does not have and has not had evaluation responsibilities. My belief is that her current role vis-a-vis pro scouting is management - e.g., assigning coverage.

Whether or not this lack makes her less qualified is a matter of preference. For example, I favor candidates with evaluation experience; I like candidates with experience in multiple functional areas; and I like candidates who have managed staffs.

2008-10-22 16:35:32
112.   Disabled List
91 I'm not so sure that giving Manny a high-dollar short-term contract is such a great idea, at least for 2009. The Dodgers are already at about $80 million in payroll obligations. Add $27 million or so for Manny, and there's really no room left over to improve the club.

Even if we free up some money by miraculously dumping a portion of Schmierredruw, it would probably go to re-signing Furcal. We still would have holes in the infield and at the top of the rotation.

2008-10-22 16:35:35
113.   Eric Enders
110 You can ask Willie Randolph about that particular phenomenon. I think eventually he realized he was just being used as the token minority interviewee and he stopped automatically saying yes to every team who requested an interview.
2008-10-22 16:37:12
114.   Humma Kavula
113 I don't root for the Mets, but I feel bad for Willie Randolph.
2008-10-22 16:38:45
115.   BlueCrew Bruin

That sounds like it should be my new alcoholic beverage of choice.

2008-10-22 16:38:54
116.   bhsportsguy
110 Actually, I understood your point, my first thought was that there was no prescribed program for MLB re interviews.

I do think there is one for managers, I do not know if it applies to GMs or other front office staff.

2008-10-22 16:39:28
117.   bhsportsguy
111 Not many people fit those criteria.
2008-10-22 16:39:33
118.   Tripon
110 The more times you get interviewed, the more times people notice you, and speak your name. The big knock on Kim Ng from what I'm reading today is that people don't know much about her and her responsibilities are. Part of that is reporters not doing their due diligence, for example Geoff Baker who runs the Mariners blog for the Seattle Times knew little about Ng's qualifications and did little to actually check for what they were. He just wrote that he knew little of her and noted that her background isn't in scouting, not listing any possible strengths she might have over other candidates. If Ng wants to combat this, she'll need to get her name out more, and build up her resume.

Jack Zduriencik got the M's job partly because of his scouting work, and partly because he has 20 years of on the job training over Ng, and partly because of perception that Ng seemed to be under qualified in the scouting area.

2008-10-22 16:39:57
119.   Marty
If Buss owned the team would Manny have a 12-year 300 million contract by now?
2008-10-22 16:41:22
120.   bigcpa
Offering a 2-year deal seems like a sure bet to poison negotiations from the start. In a world where teams will pay $50M just for bargaining rights, there's no way Manny is signing a 2 year deal. Some team will treat the 3rd/4th year as a signing bonus and take their chances.
2008-10-22 16:41:56
121.   Jim Hitchcock
115 It'll leave you with a bad, season long hangover.
2008-10-22 16:43:03
122.   Eric Stephen
According to we have about $48 million coming off the books in '09 (most $$$ in the league)

Every article that mentions money "coming off the books" always fails to account for money "coming on to the books" in the form of arbitration raises.

2008-10-22 16:43:36
123.   Eric Stephen
Manny would have already signed a 25-year "personal services" contract by now.
2008-10-22 16:44:26
124.   Xeifrank
Phillies are going with backup catcher Christ Coste as their DH tonight (batting 8th). He has decent splits vs left handed pitchers in a very small sample size this year. vr, Xei
2008-10-22 16:46:28
125.   Eric Stephen
Hopefully that won't Coste you potential winnings!
2008-10-22 16:47:50
126.   Eric Stephen
For the record, I commend your decision to ride out your 150:1 bet, although I almost definitely would have put up enough money on the Phillies to guarantee a certain outcome either way.
2008-10-22 16:53:59
127.   68elcamino427
Fill in the gaps
C - Martin
1B - Loney
2B - to be determined
3B - DeWitt
SS - to be determined
LF - Jones/Pierre/to be determined
CF - Kemp
RF - Ethier

SP - Billingsley
SP - Kiroda
SP - Kershaw
SP - McDonald
SP - Maddux

RP - Broxton
RP - Wade
RP - Beimel
RP - Kuo
RP - Tronscoso
RP - to be determined
RP - to be determined

Bench - Repko
Bench - Young
Bench - Ellis
Bench - to be determined
Bench - to be determined

2008-10-22 16:54:14
128.   bferb
122 When mlbtraderumors does their offseason breakdowns, they always compensate for arbitration raises. However they seem to have a lot of their 2009 salaries slightly off. They have the Dodgers estimated to be committed to $59 million for next year before arbitration and $70 million including arbitration raises.

They got to the $48 million number from subtracting that $70 million figure from $118 million which was their estimate for the Dodgers salary in 2008 and assuming the Dodgers stick to a similar payroll.

Of note, that site seems to estimate every payroll as slightly lower than actual, so if mlbtraderumors believes the Dodgers should have the most amount money to play with, they could be right. Although, I think the Yankees will still spend more than everyone, and we don't even know if the Dodgers will have the same payroll if they are projecting less revenue.

2008-10-22 17:00:26
129.   Eric Stephen
No Maddux

Repko to get non-tendered in November (he's out of options next year).

Saito & Proctor will be in the bullpen.

Miller (or Elbert) might make it ahead of Troncoso.

Abreu will play a key role if healthy (hopefully).

2008-10-22 17:15:41
130.   bhsportsguy
I think Ellis, Troncoso and Repko's spots are not a given.
2008-10-22 17:16:41
131.   DBrim
127 - I'd be extremely surprised if Maddux came back, and even more surprised if it was as a starter.

Good stuff by FOX:

2008-10-22 17:17:37
132.   regfairfield
Beimel's probably gone too.
2008-10-22 17:24:12
133.   fritts
122 "That's about $59MM committed, plus arbitration raises for Martin, Ethier, Saito, Broxton, Proctor, and Brazoban. A few of those guys figure to be non-tendered (Berroa for sure), but raises could push the Dodgers close to $70MM. The Dodgers entered the '08 season with a $118MM payroll, so theoretically Ned Colletti could have $48MM to spend (more than any team, as far as I can tell). Makes sense, since the Dodgers have the most free agents."

The Offseason Outlook from does take arbitration raises into account.

2008-10-22 17:28:58
134.   68elcamino427
No Maddux - Yeah
Repko - gone? ok
Saito's gone - his elbow will require at least 18 months.
Proctor with his elbow is a big ??
Miller and/or Elbert - I would love to see it
Abreu would be nice - but I'm holding my breath.

Ellis - You are right again - the back up catcher will be?

Tron Tron had his moments - and then again he had his moments.

Maddux into the sunset.

It's easy to agree with all of you.
This just creates more work for the GM braintrust!

2008-10-22 17:31:39
135.   68elcamino427
Beimel is probably gone as well - he's exceeded expectations this past season by a good margin
2008-10-22 17:32:36
136.   Eric Stephen
128 ,133
Thanks. I withdraw my objections. I was far too overreaching in my comment in 122 .

Saito's gone - his elbow will require at least 18 months

That's a big assumption.

2008-10-22 17:33:33
137.   fritts
129 Sorry, I didn't realize you had already said what I posted for 133
2008-10-22 17:36:48
138.   68elcamino427
I'm assuming that he requires tj surgery:(
2008-10-22 17:38:08
139.   Eric Stephen
I hope you have a similar Timmermann/Kuo effect. :)
2008-10-22 17:47:29
140.   Tripon
Even if it'll take about 18 months to fix Saito, the Dodgers might want to sign him to something like a two year deal on the low end. Like two years, three million to see if Saito still wants to pitch.
2008-10-22 18:27:30
141.   68elcamino427
Low risk/high reward for the Dodgers and at worst a nice Kuroda "recruiting bonus" for Saito.
2008-10-22 18:38:05
142.   Eric Stephen
The only way Saito would sign a contract like that is if it was known he would be out for the year. He is arbitration eligible, and bound to make somewhere in the $5m range. If the Dodgers don't want to go to arbitration with him and can't come to an agreement before December, they have to non-tender him and then he becomes a free agent and will probably get a better deal than 2 years, $3m.
2008-10-22 18:41:32
143.   68elcamino427
Aye ... and therein lies the rub ...
2008-10-22 18:48:42
144.   LoneStar7
i tried mlb and baseball reference but cant seem to find out what team led the league in outfield assists
2008-10-22 18:56:51
145.   Eric Stephen
I got this by going to each B-R team page...

NL Team OF Assists
Phi 36
Hou 35
LAD 34
Stl 31
SF 30
NYM 30
Atl 29
Fla 28
Col 27
Cin 27
Pit 27
Was 26
Ari 22
Mil 22
ChC 21
SD 15

2008-10-22 18:57:35
146.   Bob Timmermann
You probably have to add them up yourself. But I would assume Baltimore or Tampa Bay would be up toward the top since they had the top two guys in the majors in Markakis and Upton.
2008-10-22 19:00:23
147.   rayg
DTer's-meet your 2009 LFer.....well...maybe...some big dollars if true:
According to's Jon Heyman, the Dodgers are motivated to meet Manny Ramirez's salary demands, but only as part of a short-term deal.
Heyman writes that one person who's spoken to Dodgers people suggested that the team is considering proposing a contract that may come close to matching Alex Rodriguez's record $27.5-million average annual salary, perhaps for two years. Heyman believes that the Phillies, Yankees, Blue Jays, Mets, Orioles and Rangers are also potential suitors for Ramirez.
2008-10-22 19:02:59
148.   Eric Stephen
ESPN has team defense sorted by each specific OF position, but not an OF total.

Here is the link to MLB team assists as a LF:

You can use the drop down to see CF & RF.

2008-10-22 19:04:17
149.   Gen3Blue
Glad to keep Ng, and hopefully White!

So, Navarro looks like a creditable catcher on a possible championship team. I remember at DT a few years ago someone was dying for the D's to get Crawford. Although Crawford may not have panned out guite as well as some thought, he is good. Would this have kept us from going for Pierre, or better stil Andruw? Who was that prescient DTer?

2008-10-22 19:08:13
150.   rayg
the full article:

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-22 19:08:14
151.   Eric Stephen
Here are all MLB teams, sorted by most OF assists:

Phi 36
Min 36
Hou 35
Oak 35
LAD 34
TB 33
Bal 33
Sea 32
Stl 31
Tor 31
LAA 31
SF 30
NYM 30
NYY 30
Tex 30
Atl 29
Fla 28
Det 28
Col 27
Cin 27
Pit 27
Bos 27
Cle 27
Was 26
KC 25
Ari 22
Mil 22
ChC 21
ChW 17
SD 15

2008-10-22 19:09:58
152.   rayg
a couple excerpts:

But the Dodgers have only good memories after he lifted their franchise. Colletti agreed that Ramirez had a positive impact on several young Dodgers stars.

"He was positive in a lot of ways,'' Colletti said. "He's a great player. He knows what he's doing. He's very sharp.''

2008-10-22 19:12:20
153.   rayg
I also got confirmation from someone we all read that Dodgers mgmt wants Martin to focus more on his D and less on the nightlife. He said that Martin often arrived at the ballpark visibly tired.
2008-10-22 19:15:25
154.   Gen3Blue
I could see two years of Manny in LA. But after two Manny would definitley need the DH, or might get bored.
2008-10-22 19:16:27
155.   rayg
more from Heyman:

One person who's spoken to Dodgers people suggested that the team is considering proposing a contract that may come close to matching Alex Rodriguez's record $27.5-million average annual salary but on a much shorter term, perhaps only two years. That person hinted he could see the Dodgers even exceeding A-Rod's salary, as long as the length of the deal was to their liking. Frank loosening the purse strings? and who is our front of the rotation starter? maybe CC, where the contract is more backloaded? could happen.

2008-10-22 19:18:19
156.   Gen3Blue
153 I hope that is verified to be valid, because if it is not, that is the kind of insult that will lose you a player fast.
2008-10-22 19:18:22
157.   68elcamino427
Why on earth should Martin be tired?

Catches every darn game?

If he was indeed out for the nightlife he likely was out on his feet most of the time.

2008-10-22 19:22:58
158.   68elcamino427
focus more on his D

And just where did the Dodgers pitching staff rank for team ERA for the season in the National League this past season and who was the catcher for those pitchers?

2008-10-22 19:49:53
159.   rayg
68ElCamino-did you watch alot of Dodgers games? how many times did we see Martin mishandle a pitch and run to the backstop.
2008-10-22 19:50:15
160.   LoneStar7
thanks for all the help guys, my friend was convinced the rays must of led the league, but thanks for the actual numbers
2008-10-22 19:51:39
161.   rayg
156-why would the person say it if it weren't true? Olney basically said the same thing yesterday, and Joel Sherman said the same on Sunday.
2008-10-22 19:53:14
162.   Bob Timmermann
Remember that a team with a lot of outfield assists may not be good at throwing out runners on the bases. They could have a good first baseman who is adept at cutting off throws and catching guys going to sec
2008-10-22 19:54:50
163.   Eric Stephen
156-why would the person say it if it weren't true?

That's funny.

2008-10-22 19:58:40
164.   still bevens
Yeah I would cringe every time Russ made a throw to second that sailed into CF. Happened way too many times. Im shocked most teams didnt try to run all over us. I think Russ cruised by on reputation this year.
2008-10-22 20:09:16
165.   rayg
Eric-funny how? do I make you laugh? just joshing....
same story-three different people....hmmmm
2008-10-22 20:09:59
166.   Tripon

Good News! Bob Melvin will get to keep on putting SCY in the 2nd spot despite a .310 OBP for another year.

2008-10-22 20:15:31
167.   Jon Weisman
2008-10-22 20:32:54
168.   68elcamino427
Yeah rayg I watched just about every Dodger game.
Prior to opening day I held the false belief that Torre would take good care of Martin and manage his workload.
However the opposite came to pass.
Martin's off days consisted of playing at third or coming into the lineup in the seventh inning.
On several occasions these seventh inning insertion appearances became extra inning games.
In May I began asking when the days off would begin to happen.
At the All-star break I was hoping that Martin wouldn't be selected to the team so that he could have some rest (instead another extra inning affair ensued).

How can this negative drivel be repeated and repeated again and again ala the old "telephone game"?

Gee - could it be Billy and Tommy?
Maybe those two should get together and write a book:)

Besmirtching the two time All-Star catcher logging the most innings in the MLB in back to back years
... Mack the Knife indeed.

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