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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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There Is a Choice
2008-10-28 07:38
by Jon Weisman

Even if baseball is this desperate for money, it needs to make a change. As I wrote in February, the amount of money Major League Baseball would leave on the table by condensing the regular season and starting postseason games earlier in the calendar and earlier in the evening would be made up by future earnings from better ratings and greater fan interest.

It's all about making the right investment.

I'm not suggesting baseball should be able to control the weather. I'm just suggesting that the sport can improve its odds - and at the same time, not feel so bad about having to suspend or postpone a game, since there will be more time to make things right.

Comments (347)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-28 09:53:32
1.   Eric Stephen
1) Expand to two cities willing to have their taxpayers fund a new stadium
2) Realign so each league has four 4-team divisions

18 games against each intradivisional team (3): 54 games
6 games against each intraleague team outside of division (12): 72 games
6 games against each interleague team in a division on a rotating basis (4): 24 games
Total: 150 games

That shaves two weeks off the regular season, and ensures each playoff spot is contested by teams playing the exact same schedule.

2008-10-28 09:54:36
2.   ToyCannon
Yup, but when was the last time baseball made the right choice with revenue at stake?
2008-10-28 09:56:03
3.   D4P
Expand to two cities willing to have their taxpayers fund a new stadium

Expand? Expand???

Two words: Jamie Moyer

2008-10-28 09:57:36
4.   Xeifrank
I have no problem with shortening to a 150 game season, but I doubt that will fly. My suggestions would be:

1) Start the season one week earlier and schedule as many games as possible the first two weeks in warm weather or domed stadium cities.

2) Have each team play atleast 7 double-headers. Rosters could be expanded by one on days of double-headers. Or some similar roster rule that gives teams flexibility.

3) Try as hard as possible to limit off days during the post-season. No more waiting 2 or 3 days to start a new series when the two teams have already been decided.

vr, Xei

2008-10-28 09:58:11
5.   Eric Stephen
Are you saying Jamie Moyer doesn't belong in baseball?

I refuse to believe there isn't enough of a worldwide talent base to support at least two more teams.

2008-10-28 10:01:23
6.   Eric Stephen
I love doubleheaders. I have only been to one DH in my life, and although it was a long day it was worth it.

2008-10-28 10:02:38
7.   Jon Weisman
I'm sort of over doubleheaders myself. I used to look forward to them. I'd rather just see the schedule shortened a bit.
2008-10-28 10:03:56
8.   D4P
If Jamie Moyer is not compelling evidence in support of contraction, nothing is.

Course, Jamie Moyer is just a figurehead for old and/or not very good players that shouldn't be in the major leagues, like, say, Loaiza, Berroa, Bennett, Tomko, etc.

2008-10-28 10:04:14
9.   Eric Stephen
With kids, it must seem unfathomable for them to sit through one full game, let alone two (plus the 30-45 minutes between games).
2008-10-28 10:05:55
10.   Eric Stephen
If Jamie Moyer is not compelling evidence in support of contraction, nothing is

On this we agree. :)

2008-10-28 10:08:23
11.   Eric Stephen
No Game 5 until at least tomorrow. :(

2008-10-28 10:10:30
12.   LogikReader

Poor Mike's Baseball Rants, not really.

2008-10-28 10:12:53
13.   bagg4
Kudos to Xeifrank

2008 started with the Brewers AT the Cubs. Hello...Milwaukee has a domed stadium(really nice place to watch ball). I don't think you can start too much is still an issue everywhere.

Doubleheaders would allow the season to end in September, and get the playoffs over before the last week of October while the weather is still civilized even in New England. Plus, doubleheaders can be enjoyable.

Inter-league games aren't that great and force us to endure the All-Star fiasco. It's baseball, not buckets or football. The All-Star game reverts to an exhibition with no impact on the World Series while still providing an opportunity to see players from the other league (as if they're not on TV anyway). The Rays earned the home field advantage with a better record.

2008-10-28 10:13:08
14.   Xeifrank
9. Not sure how I would do it, clear out the stadium between games and charge for another ticket, or just let people stay in their seats. I will let someone else figure out the details.
vr, Xei
2008-10-28 10:14:24
15.   kinbote
We could also just start every game in the top of the 6th with a runner on second base and a 1-1 count on the batter. [Juan Pierre's trade value would skyrocket!]
2008-10-28 10:14:53
16.   Jon Weisman
Another departure from the Times sports department: Thomas Bonk.
2008-10-28 10:15:05
17.   Eric Stephen
Day-nighters, to get two gates?
2008-10-28 10:16:03
18.   ToyCannon
Back to back doubleheaders would be problematic but I like the idea of two games on the same day with different tickets. The ole day / night doubleheader could easily be done with game one starting at 11:30 Sunday and game two starting at 06:00 Sunday. They do it at Staples all year long even if it is different teams. We are talking baseball and without warmups/batting practice/infield practice the day should be doable.
2008-10-28 10:16:20
19.   Disabled List
4 I'm fine with the doubleheaders idea, I think that's the best way to shorten the baseball calendar up a little bit. But scheduling games in March and early April in warm-weather cities is not a great idea. Teams from the colder areas won't like being on the road for an extended period at the start of the season, and the warm-weather teams won't like front-loading their home schedule and losing games in the prime summer months, when attendance is higher.

And making sense of the schedule in October won't happen as long as Fox controls baseball's postseason.

2008-10-28 10:16:33
20.   ToyCannon
Dang, beat me to it.
2008-10-28 10:17:39
21.   JoeyP
Reduce spring training.
Start the season 1 week earlier (in March).
2008-10-28 10:17:47
22.   fanerman
12 Teehee.
2008-10-28 10:19:43
23.   kinbote
Is Marcus Giles worth taking a shot on? I know he has fork marks in his back [someone else's line], but he's still only 30 and we've shown interest before.
2008-10-28 10:20:20
24.   Sam PHL
Wow, good thing they got in Saturday's game. Despite the complaints about the late start of that game, imagine if only game 3 had been concluded by Wednesday.
2008-10-28 10:21:23
25.   Jon Weisman
18 - I'm down with that.
2008-10-28 10:22:13
26.   Eric Stephen
If you allow for an extra person on the active roster for scheduled doubleheaders, what would you do for doubleheaders as a result of games made up due to rain/weather?
2008-10-28 10:27:08
27.   Jon Weisman
So I guess this goes without saying, but I assume Games 6 and 7 would now be Thursday-Friday if necessary?
2008-10-28 10:28:45
28.   ToyCannon
As long as we are talking about things that will never happen let's also bring these rules in:
1. Active 25 man roster for every regular season baseball game. You can use anyone on the 40 man roster but only 25 per game. Only one change per game is allowed not related to the DL and must be announced when the lineups are presented to the umpires.
2. Remove the DH
3. Players can be used once removed from the game but only after 3 complete innings have expired. Meaning if I pinch hit in the 2nd I can also pinch hit/pinch run/play defense starting in the 6th. This would keep teams from running out of players in extra innings.

This would add some real managerial strategy to the game and get the fans more involved.

2008-10-28 10:32:09
29.   Eric Stephen
3. Players can be used once removed from the game but only after 3 complete innings have expired. Meaning if I pinch hit in the 2nd I can also pinch hit/pinch run/play defense starting in the 6th. This would keep teams from running out of players in extra innings

I don't like this at all. Let the teams run out of players. The strategy is deciding when is best to use each player.

2008-10-28 10:32:45
30.   JoeyP
28- I never understood why a baseball team can play 40 players in September, but 25 the rest of the season.

I like the suggestion of using anyone on the 40, but only 25 per game-- all season.

Dh- Either allow the NL to use it, or get rid of it altogether.

I wouldnt allow players to re-enter the game. I think that is what managing interesting-- the possibility of running out of players.

2008-10-28 10:33:06
31.   Xeifrank
26. What I'd probably recommend is expanding the roster by one player for the entire season. If that didn't fly, then only the extra player for the scheduled double-headers. vr, Xei
2008-10-28 10:33:15
32.   ToyCannon
For a quick scenario using the rule changes listed above.
Ryan Howard walks in the 8th inning of a tie game and is pinch run for by Joe Blow. Joe Blow gets caught stealing and goes into play 1st base. The game goes into the 12th inning and Joe Blow comes up. After sitting out 3 innings Ryan Howard pinch hits and delivers a mammoth shot to right field. Game over, fans go home happy.
2008-10-28 10:33:55
33.   Jon Weisman
28 - Yeah, I like 1) and 2) fine, but 1) eliminates the need for 3) in my mind.
2008-10-28 10:34:03
34.   Eric Stephen
A travel day might be added still, and the schedule for all remaining games is still up in the air.

2008-10-28 10:34:41
35.   ToyCannon
I don't find running out of players interesting. Plus I'd like to raise havoc with Bob's scorebook.
2008-10-28 10:36:40
36.   Eric Stephen
It would raise a humorous exchange between a manager and his pitchers.

"Hit the showers, kid....Actually, wait a little while. Just hang out here; we may need you in a few innings."

2008-10-28 10:40:57
37.   Eric Stephen
1. Active 25 man roster for every regular season baseball game. You can use anyone on the 40 man roster but only 25 per game. Only one change per game is allowed not related to the DL and must be announced when the lineups are presented to the umpires

I really like this idea, but let me be the fly in the ointment here. From the players' perspective, this could damage the earning potential of starting pitchers. For instance, if the Dodgers demoted Kershaw for every day he wasn't starting (to allow for more bench flexibility), he would have only accumulated 20-ish days of service time instead of the 110-ish or so he did accumulate. Not to mention the difference in MLB and minor league salaries.

Players would probably want some guarantee for split contracts that if a player achieves 15-20 days of service time his entire MLB salary for the year becomes guaranteed or something like that.

2008-10-28 10:43:27
38.   BlueCrew Bruin
1 I agree with this idea in principle, although I think it'll be a tough sell to get the season shortened. I love the expanded playoffs but I really don't like the idea of second place teams making it in.

Despite my agreement with D4P that this will allow more lousy players into the majors, I do think expansion should be considered so that there could be 4 divisions in each league, like the NFL has. It just makes things more fair and would probably make scheduling logistics much easier. Plus, I think fighting with only 3 other teams for a playoff spot every year would really intensify the intra-divisional rivalries.

2008-10-28 10:45:19
39.   herchyzer
From the last thread:
Did he make Loney, Kemp, and Martin less confident, or are they just not team players?

I dunno. Maybe it was just me who felt more confident. In any case I get pretty frustrated when the team I'm following loses many games by 2-1. I feel like all that good pitching's getting wasted. Just my own emotional response I suppose as all that really matters is more "W"'s than the rest of the division.

I would still like my Manny if no one minds too much.

2008-10-28 10:46:20
40.   D4P
Having 4 divisions in each league with an equal number of teams in each division doesn't require a total of 32 teams...
2008-10-28 10:47:36
41.   Eric Stephen
Yeah, I don't think the season will be shortened either. If anything, you can just add 4 more games (22 total) against the 3 divisional opponents, for an unchanged total of 162.
2008-10-28 10:51:37
42.   Eric Stephen
Baseball last had 24 teams in 1976. Total world population was right around 4 billion.

Right now there are roughly 6.7 billion people on Earth. I don't think 32 teams would be tough to fill with good players.

2008-10-28 11:01:40
43.   fanerman
35 It doesn't seem like a bad idea at least for the all-star game...
2008-10-28 11:04:58
44.   D4P
Hah! Some of you may recall my comments on Sunday regarding the ZERO penalties called against the Patriots in their game against the Rams.

Well, has an article up:

The New England Patriots were assessed zero penalty yards in their win over the St. Louis Rams on Sunday -- and the Rams want to know why.

The Rams are sending a videotape to the NFL's offices, highlighting plays the team believes should have resulted in penalties against the Patriots on Sunday, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.

2008-10-28 11:06:25
45.   Eric Stephen
So you're saying the Rams videotaped the Patriots this time? :)
2008-10-28 11:13:03
46.   D4P
Don't be ree-dic-you-luss...
2008-10-28 11:36:07
47.   Eric Stephen
Since the NBA has reclaimed the stage to itself for tonight, I will offer my picks for the upcoming season:

1) Lakers*
2) Rockets*
3) Hornets
4) Spurs
5) Jazz*
6) Suns
7) Blazers
8) Mavs

1) Celtics*
2) Cavs*
3) Pistons
4) Magic*
5) Wizards
6) 76ers
7) Raptors
8) Nets

2008-10-28 11:38:28
48.   PDH5204
We could try going back to two divisions. That'd save a playoff series and a week. And screw travel days. That's what "greenies" are for. If you've got a problem with the "greenies", then diagnose them with Attention Deficit Disorder and hand them the Ritalin.
2008-10-28 11:39:31
49.   silverwidow
47 Division champ is guaranteed at least a 4-seed.
2008-10-28 11:39:43
50.   Bob Timmermann
Why is Jamie Moyer held up as the example of the dilution of talent? Jamie Moyer pitched pretty well in 2008. He had a 118 ERA+.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-28 11:45:29
51.   D4P
Why is Jamie Moyer held up as the example of the dilution of talent?

He's 45 years old and throws the ball in the low-80s.

See also: Maddux, Greg.

2008-10-28 11:45:33
52.   BlueCrew Bruin
50 I guess it depends on if we're talking about the talent of the hitters or pitchers.
2008-10-28 11:49:07
53.   D4P
Very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
2008-10-28 11:49:40
54.   Eric Stephen
I know, but I was just ordering them by record anyway. Besides, in my example, the Spurs would still have home court over the Jazz in the 4-5 matchup even as the lower seed.
2008-10-28 11:49:53
55.   D4P
BTW: Is Bob aware that Delaware is currently being profiled on
2008-10-28 11:50:29
56.   Eric Enders
I'm not particularly in favor of expanding either rosters or the number of teams, but MLB right now has fewer lousy players than at any time in its history. Dilution of talent is absolutely a non-issue, except for old farts for whom nothing will ever be as good as it was in the good old days.

I love doubleheaders and they are the answer to all our problems. However, both players and management have good reasons to eliminate doubleheaders. Players simply find it tiring to play too many games in one day. For management, there are powerful economic reasons not to like doubleheaders.

The reason doubleheaders were once viable is that most fans came to the game for the actual baseball. Now they come for other reasons. In 1940 a doubleheader could have been expected to boost attendance significantly in parks that ordinarily would have been half-empty. In 2008, no games are played in half-empty parks anymore, and the people who do attend are, generally speaking, there for the entertainment and not the baseball. It's not possible anymore for a doubleheader to jack up attendance enough to make it economically feasible.

Then there's playing two games in one day with separate admissions, which I refuse to call a doubleheader. The problem with this option is that you're asking for a 12-hour time commitment from your season ticket holders, and also asking your gameday staff, not to mention the players, to put in about a 16-hour workday. That's a little much.

Baseball will never, ever take the long view economically, and that's really the problem. Because most owners own teams for relatively short periods of time, it's a pump-and-dump industry. Frank McCourt couldn't care less about ensuring that baseball has fan appeal and economic viability in 2018, because he won't be around. He cares about making the short-term buck and selling the franchise for more than he paid for it.

No plan will ever happen which requires owners to take a short-term economic hit for a long-term gain. This is why the World Series will continue to be played late at night in November, and also why there will never again be scheduled doubleheaders.

2008-10-28 11:50:47
57.   Jon Weisman
51 - So in the end, you're a style over substance guy. He's not even below average, but because he doesn't look the part, he's a problem ...
2008-10-28 11:54:39
58.   D4P
That's not the issue. The issue (IMO) is that if there were fewer teams. 45-year old, 80 MPH-hurling pitchers wouldn't likely be getting starting jobs in the first place.
2008-10-28 11:55:15
59.   cargill06
50 Maybe the over-analsys of what we last saw. The same reason why people here may think Moyer is so bad is because we rememeber 6 ER in 1.1 IP, is also the same reason Billingsley lost any little national recognition he had recieved because of his last 2 starts.
2008-10-28 11:55:33
60.   Jon Weisman
58 - But you still haven't made the case for why having a pitcher of Jamie Moyer's quality around is a bad thing.
2008-10-28 11:56:58
61.   Eric Stephen
But there's more to baseball than age and the radar gun. The issue is why do you think it's a good thing to remove an above-average player from baseball? How would that help or make the game better?
2008-10-28 11:57:18
62.   BlueCrew Bruin
I just like the symmetry of an even number of divisions all containing an equal number of teams. Also the fact that only division winners would make the playoffs and you wouldn't have potential LCS' with division winners having to beat teams from their own division that they were already better than over a full season.

Not that I think the current format is horribly unfair, I just find the alternative more appealing.

2008-10-28 11:57:19
63.   D4P
I'm not trying to make that case: I'm making the case that pitchers like Moyer probably wouldn't get a chance to show their stuff in the first place. Which, IMO, would be a good thing in most cases, but there might be some exceptions.

I actually think the average age of MLB players will probably go down anyway, in the "post-PED" era. (Which isn't to say that PED use has necessarily ceased...)

2008-10-28 11:58:03
64.   Eric Enders
Guys who throw 80 mph have had jobs ever since MLB started in 1876 and will likely continue to have them as long as their performance is good.

It's like complaining that there are so many fat guys in the majors even though David Ortiz, Matt Stairs and company hit lots of home runs.

2008-10-28 11:59:48
65.   cargill06
David Ortiz, Matt Stairs and company hit lots of home runs.

Rule 15 violation.

2008-10-28 12:00:00
66.   das411
Woah woah hold on, I thought all of those references to "The Vowel" were to John Vanbiesbrouck or, failing that, to Jarrod Saltalamacchia!!
2008-10-28 12:01:34
67.   Eric Enders
What player has the greatest vowel:consonant ratio in his last name? It'd be tough to beat Don Aase.
2008-10-28 12:02:00
68.   Harold M Johnson
Personally one thing I like about baseball is having guys like Maddux and Moyer; Stairs and Ortiz. I love how baseball has no set age, body type, etc.
2008-10-28 12:02:28
69.   Eric Stephen
Scott Eyre would like a ruling from the Yes on Y committee.
2008-10-28 12:02:55
70.   Jon Weisman
63 - That's just a really tortured line of argument in my opinion.

First of all, your argument began by being centered on Jamie Moyer. So in fact, you are arguing that it would be good that an above-average pitcher wouldn't get a chance to show his stuff.

Second, the premise doesn't even hold up. Even if you contract baseball, veterans like Moyer will always get long, long looks - from Spring Training on.

2008-10-28 12:03:35
71.   Jon Weisman
65 - Huh?
2008-10-28 12:04:42
72.   Eric Stephen
I guess we have to start calling Kim Ng "The Consonant."
2008-10-28 12:06:06
73.   cargill06
71 The words Matt and Stairs put together should be a violation, I shutter every time Fox shows his HR at Dodger stadium, or says his name.
2008-10-28 12:07:06
74.   Eric Stephen
65 ,71
I lose track of all the "animal style fries" secret rules. Rule 13 is easy to remember, but for the life of me I can't remember what Rule 14 was, unofficially of course.

I assumed Rule 15 was bringing up the fresh wound of Matt Stairs. (Sorry, Jacob!)

2008-10-28 12:07:22
75.   Eric Enders
D4P, really you're pining for a kind of baseball which has never before existed. There has never been a time when old guys who throw junk weren't commonplace in the majors.
2008-10-28 12:08:22
76.   D4P
your argument began by being centered on Jamie Moyer

Which I further explicated in 8 .

you are arguing that it would be good that an above-average pitcher wouldn't get a chance to show his stuff

No. I am arguing that, among all players who wouldn't get a chance to show their stuff, most of said players would be below average.

Thus, the size of the bathwater would exceed the size of the baby, and we'd be less likely to have (unspecified) morons paying players like Esteban Loaiza $7 million a year.

2008-10-28 12:10:37
77.   D4P
And I think BlueCrew Bruin's point in 52 is very insightful.

Shouldn't the fact that a 45-year old 80-MPH hurler can be "above average" be considered "pretty darn good evidence" that there are too many bad hitters in the league...?

If not, what would such evidence look like?

2008-10-28 12:10:51
78.   Eric Stephen
With fewer teams, Moyer and his ilk (you know, good and effective players) would still get jobs, leaving fewer jobs for players that fit your ideal type.
2008-10-28 12:11:52
79.   Eric Stephen
It could be evidence that there is much more to pitching than the readings of a radar gun.
2008-10-28 12:12:07
80.   D4P
And for Ch-i's sake:

Why isn't Bob supporting me here with some Russ Ortiz anecdotes...?

2008-10-28 12:12:20
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - But there will always be below-average, overpaid players, even if you reduce baseball to two teams.
2008-10-28 12:12:56
82.   silverwidow
McDonald/Elbert got no love in the BA lefty/righty prospect rankings.
2008-10-28 12:17:19
83.   D4P
That's true. But at least the overall average (or "quality") would increase, and we'd be stuck with fewer players like Sweeney who are incompetent at all aspects of the game.
2008-10-28 12:18:13
84.   regfairfield
Jamie Moyer can throw 80 and get away with it because he mixes it in with a 65 mile an hour change.
2008-10-28 12:18:53
85.   fanerman
Wait, so we are trying to sell jeans?
2008-10-28 12:20:21
86.   Bob Hendley
83 - They didn't keep M. Sweeney because there was no one better. They kept him because...
2008-10-28 12:20:53
87.   Eric Enders
83 Again, you're asking for something that doesn't exist and has never existed. The quality of the fringe players in today's MLB is far, far better now than it has ever been before.

Players who are incompetent relative to their peers will always exist no matter what. There will always be someone who's the worst player in baseball.

2008-10-28 12:20:58
88.   Jon Weisman
No, because the standard of "competency" would rise, thus rendering a new class of players incompetent.

Another solution to you problem would be to expand baseball to 60 teams. Then, Mark Sweeney would suddenly become competent.

Mark Sweeney is one of the 1,000-best baseball players in the world. Calling him incompetent is really just making a comment about his relative value. Change the size of the league, and you'll just be changing the target - there will always be about the same percentage of "incompetent" players.

2008-10-28 12:21:12
89.   cargill06
The old story I used to hear, is the harder someone throws the further the ball will travel when you square up. The slower someone throws the more "power" you have to produce yourself. It makes sense, but I was never good at physics or whatever category that would fall under.
2008-10-28 12:21:21
90.   D4P
My number 1 argument in favor of contraction:

Fewer GMs, and thus (on average?) fewer Ned Collettis.

2008-10-28 12:22:55
91.   regfairfield
Moyer has got to be the only guy in history that looked finished at age 41 and then stayed relatively effective for another four years.
2008-10-28 12:25:16
92.   Eric Stephen
He must have made a deal with his father-in-law, Satan.

(That was for Bob)

2008-10-28 12:27:26
93.   Eric Enders
Satan must have had trouble marrying off his daughter. Pitching ability after age 40 was a dowry of sorts.
2008-10-28 12:28:10
94.   Jon Weisman
90 - Sigh.
2008-10-28 12:28:15
95.   Eric Stephen
Julio Franco was in South Korea, out of MLB at 41, then came back to play seven more years, producing a 100 OPS+ in 1618 PA.
2008-10-28 12:30:44
96.   das411
What precisely is wrong with expanding to enough teams until Bluebleeder gets a Major League contract??

fyi you guys do know that Jamie Moyer led this year's NL Champions in wins and was second in innings, starter ERA, and ERA+ right?

2008-10-28 12:31:01
97.   Bob Timmermann
I want to know in what world is Jamie Moyer considered a poor pitcher?

He was much better than Greg Maddux this year if you are looking for someone comparable.

And they're not comparable.

Moyer had a bad start against the Brewers and a really bad start against the Dodgers, but apparently the Rays were an easier mark for him.

2008-10-28 12:31:10
98.   Jon Weisman
94 - Let's change the subject. The Blue Man Group is staging a casting call in Los Angeles on November 11.

The role of Blue Man is a very physically demanding one. We are seeking men and women who fit the following specifications:


Athletic build

Solid percussion/drum skills or strong musical background

Excellent acting skills – the ability to communicate honestly within the dramatic circumstance and the ability to express emotions and communicate non-verbally

Open to exploring an alternative acting style

Able to let your ego go and embrace a collaborative working environment

Dynamic, charismatic personality


Willing to travel and /or relocate

2008-10-28 12:31:56
99.   fanerman
My personal Jamie Moyer count is 54. 54 wins to 300!
2008-10-28 12:33:02
100.   Eric Enders
Maybe I'll show up dressed as Tobias Fünke.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-28 12:33:10
101.   Bob Timmermann
D4P has done the impossible. He has made me sympathetic to a guy who is related to Digger Phelps.
2008-10-28 12:33:50
102.   regfairfield
Not bad for a guy that got win 100 at age 35.
2008-10-28 12:35:47
103.   cargill06
I understand the premis on which D4P is trying to say, but I'm not sure how it translates to baseball. Look at the NFL for example on Dec. 28th, you may watch a game QB'd by Tyler Thigpin and Ryan Fitzpatrick. When you get too many of those match-up's it is bad for the overall watchability of the league. Just my $.02
2008-10-28 12:37:17
104.   D4P
If and when Ned signs Moyer for 2009 and beyond, you guys better express unmitigated glee.
2008-10-28 12:38:11
105.   Bob Timmermann
If you keep this up, I'm breaking out my Joseph Welch impression.
2008-10-28 12:38:52
106.   Jon Weisman
103 - See 88 . It's the same premise.

There will always be players you think are bad. Always. In every league, in every sport.

2008-10-28 12:39:33
107.   regfairfield
Moyer is an average pitcher at this point in his career. The man knows what he can and can't do and he takes total advantage of it.
2008-10-28 12:40:16
108.   KG16
89 - yes, that would be physics, and yes, it is true, to a certain degree. I can't seem to pull the laws of physics up in my brain at the moment, so I won't go into the numbers, but yes, you are correct.

The flip side, of course, is that it is easier to square up on slower pitches as you have an extra few tenths of a second to swing.

2008-10-28 12:40:49
109.   Jon Weisman
104 - Sigh. Again.
2008-10-28 12:42:10
110.   Eric Stephen
I'm better suited for a Green Man casting call.
2008-10-28 12:42:12
111.   D4P
If you keep this up, I'm breaking out my Joseph Welch impression

Is that a promise or a threat?

PS: I have no idea who Joseph Welch is.

2008-10-28 12:43:42
112.   KG16
98 - [checks calendar for November 11]

What? No, no, I'm busy that day. I have an important, um, meeting.

2008-10-28 12:44:42
113.   cargill06
106 Completely understand what you're saying, average is relative to the group which you are comparing to. The point I'm making is talent is fun to watch, and less talent is less fun to watch.

That being said, if there were only 16 NFL teams would I be saying David Garrard in the same context as Ryan Fitzpatrick? Maybe. I guess it's a pretty pointless discussion at this point.

106 Premis*e*, learn something new.

2008-10-28 12:45:09
114.   Disabled List
98 I recommend Joe Beimel, if he's willing to get a haircut.
2008-10-28 12:46:25
115.   Humma Kavula

about the 6:10 mark.

2008-10-28 12:46:46
116.   Humma Kavula
115 is directed at 111 .
2008-10-28 12:46:58
117.   cargill06
108 Squaring up on a Broxton fastball can result in a ball 40 rows deep than?
2008-10-28 12:47:08
118.   Eric Stephen
Beimel is listed at 6'2" or 6'3", depending on the source. Just a tad too tall.
2008-10-28 12:48:09
119.   regfairfield
117 Matt Stairs says yes.
2008-10-28 12:50:53
120.   El Lay Dave
76 we'd be less likely to have (unspecified) morons paying players like Esteban Loaiza $7 million a year.

Billy Beane signed that contract. Ned just took on the last $7.375M; at least he didn't sell off Elbert, McDonald, Wade and Troncoso instead.

2008-10-28 12:58:32
121.   Eric Stephen
I always thought Welch didn't show enough respect for the ex-Yankee manager.
2008-10-28 13:01:10
122.   D4P
He also didn't appreciate the bind George was in, what with Uncle Billy losing the $8,000. Had he been more compassionate, he might not have reacted so violently. Course, then, George may never have met Clarence.
2008-10-28 13:02:56
123.   El Lay Dave
114 How about Juan Pierre? I don't know if he meets all the qualifications, but I do know he'll show up early every day, roll balls around to check the current slope/pitch of the stage, design his jumping exercise to find all soft and firm spot on the floor, and just generally work hard. Throwing arm no longer a minus.
2008-10-28 13:03:52
124.   Eric Stephen
Sadly, I never seen It's a Wonderful Life*. I plan to see it this year though.

*This is going to disappoint Underdog more than my Freaks & Geeks abstinence.

2008-10-28 13:05:17
125.   Eric Enders
122 Losing all theat money in a folded-up newspaper never could have happened these days because who reads actual print newspapers anymore?
2008-10-28 13:05:54
126.   Eric Enders
124 ?!?
2008-10-28 13:06:34
127.   Eric Stephen
I know.

I throw myself at the mercy of the court on this one. No contest.

2008-10-28 13:07:04
128.   D4P
And who still uses cash?
2008-10-28 13:09:09
129.   Eric Enders
128 And in 2008 it would have been Mr. Potter getting a bailout.
2008-10-28 13:13:49
130.   D4P
And Mr. Gower would have been a stock-boy at the WalMart pharmacy.
2008-10-28 13:15:54
131.   KG16
128 - I've found that there are two types of people that use cash:

1. me
2. people who want to make purchases that they don't want traced.

there may be some overlap

2008-10-28 13:16:29
132.   Bob Timmermann
Mr. Potter never should have given those sub-prime loans to the people in Pottersville.

He dug his own grave.

The Bailey Brothers always required a higher credit score. They also own a controlling interest in Martini's Bar.

2008-10-28 13:18:26
133.   Eric Enders
On the other hand, Donna Reed would have had this song sung about her:
2008-10-28 13:21:57
134.   D4P
I wonder whose failure to be born led to Bob's librianism.
2008-10-28 13:29:03
135.   Johnson
134 I didn't know Bob was a Libra.
2008-10-28 13:33:22
136.   ToyCannon
Cash is still king when the IRS is involved. All those people with money in their mattresses are having a good laugh right now. At least until they brag about it and then find to their surprise that their neighbors are not someone you tell secrets to.

I was disappointed. I was looking up George Brunet a lefty who retired from Major League baseball in his mid 30's but if I recall then spent the rest of his life pitching in Mexico and other places but Google was no help in finding the facts.

2008-10-28 13:33:39
137.   underdog
124 "*This is going to disappoint Underdog more than my Freaks & Geeks abstinence."

Uh, no. As "important" as It's a Wonderful Life is, and as many times as I've seen it now, I'm fine never seeing it again. F&G I can't go through a year without busting out the DVDs. So you have your order of priority now, my friend!

2008-10-28 13:34:41
138.   underdog
(Still, I should think everyone should see IAWL at least once in their lives.)

Get me, I'm makin' wings!

2008-10-28 13:35:43
139.   underdog
Weird that Donna Reed should come up now, as I just today got a copy of the Donna Reed Show season 1 DVD on my desk. Not sure what they want me to do with it. It isn't crying out for a review...
2008-10-28 13:35:55
140.   scareduck
89 - I recall reading somewhere that despite the received wisdom about fastballs providing part of the energy to hit the ball far, breaking pitches travel further than fastballs (curveballs in particular) because the rotation inverts on contact with the bat, and that gives the ball loft.

I've lost my copy of The Physics of Baseball somewhere, but I think that's in it.

2008-10-28 13:37:26
141.   Eric Enders
136 Did you see this?
2008-10-28 13:37:55
142.   scareduck
136 - Cash is still king when the IRS is involved. All those people with money in their mattresses are having a good laugh right now. At least until they brag about it and then find to their surprise that their neighbors are not someone you tell secrets to.

Or, thanks to the draconian "Know Your Customer" laws, their bank ...

2008-10-28 13:43:37
143.   ToyCannon
Thanks - that story is what I read. I remembered him from the Senator days. Quite a baseball life.
2008-10-28 13:51:31
144.   silverwidow
Angels just cut loose Garrett Anderson.
2008-10-28 13:52:58
145.   eusmus
According to the guys over at Russell Martin is still a top 5 catcher even in a "down year".
2008-10-28 13:55:31
146.   Eric Enders
I guess they don't know that he parties.
2008-10-28 13:57:42
147.   Tripon

According to Beyond the Box Score, Russell Martin is the 4th best catcher.

Jason Veritek is 18th.

2008-10-28 14:00:27
148.   Bob Timmermann
Lute Olson's doctor said that Olson had a stroke last year and advised him to retire because of it:
2008-10-28 14:02:46
149.   D4P
Johnny Miller retired because of his stroke
2008-10-28 14:02:52
150.   ToyCannon
Interesting that Scareduck insists the Angels are not interested in Manny because he seems to be a perfect fit baseball wise if not character wise.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-28 14:26:52
151.   Tripon
Juan Pierre should be a first baseman, so we can see how absurd that would be.
2008-10-28 14:34:57
152.   CodyS
I'd like to see a return to the 154-game schedule. Nobody wants to see baseball in the snow, which happens at the start of the year and in the postseason now. I'm not sure there's a business case there, though from the owners' perspective. (And the players aren't going to just take a 5% paycut across the board). If you could make a solid case for it though, with justifiable numbers, baseball is probably ready to listen. Nobody likes to see the World Series be decided in a game with weather conditions like last night.
2008-10-28 14:43:46
153.   Bob Hendley
0 - Global warming should solve MLB's scheduling problems. Added benefit: PETCO and Phone Booth, underwater.
2008-10-28 14:45:15
154.   Tripon
Newsflash: The Irvine Company is a disgusting monopoly that must be broken up.
2008-10-28 14:59:28
155.   kinbote
144 I put GA in the Eric Karros category of players who were evaluated very differently by fans.
2008-10-28 15:02:28
156.   Bob Hendley
143 - George was elected to the Mexican League Salon de Fama in 1999. He played in both summer and winter leagues. In the summer league he pitched for teams in Poza Rica, Coatzacoalcos, Tigres (Mexico City), Aguila de Veracruz, Saltillo and Monterrey, over the course of 14 seasons. He won 132 and lost 127, pitching 2,151 innings with 1,483 Ks and an ERA of 2.66. He is second alltime in shutouts with 55.

In the winter league, he play nine seasons for teams in Culiacán, Guasave and Los Mochis. He won 60 and lost 54, pitching 998 innings with 657 Ks and an ERA of 2.24. He threw a no hitter in 1976 pitching for the Algodoneros (Cottonpickers)de Guasave.

In 1977 he managed the Petroleros (Oilers)de Poza Rica.

(freely translated from the Salon de Fama webpage).

2008-10-28 15:06:24
157.   scareduck
150 - Evidence:

1) The benching and subsequent trade of Jose Guillen after his tantrum at being replaced for a pinch-runner.
2) The refusal to hire Barry Bonds as a DH when he could be had for major league minimum as of the start of spring training, 2008.
3) From the opposite side: the frankly overlong retention of Garret Anderson.

153 -- not to mention (likely) both Florida clubs.

2008-10-28 15:13:30
158.   Humma Kavula
138 Merry Christmas, you wonderful old building and loan!
2008-10-28 15:18:21
159.   ToyCannon
I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, just saying they would be a great match baseball wise if not for the character side of transaction. They need a slugging LF/DH if they lose Teixeira and Manny fits the bill.
2008-10-28 15:18:33
160.   Eric Enders
I wonder if the Rays now regret removing their referendum for a new stadium from the November ballot. They did it in June because it looked like they were going to get voted down for sure. But now with Rays fever going around, I bet it would have gotten approved.

It was a pretty sweet-looking stadium, too, with a retractable canopy-style roof that would make the park look like a sailboat.

2008-10-28 15:19:36
161.   ToyCannon
More thanks.
2008-10-28 15:21:06
162.   underdog
Screw baseball, NBA opens tonight! Lakers vs Blazers on TNT! Exclamation points all around!
2008-10-28 15:24:31
163.   Bob Hendley
160 - Maybe they can just build it in Tampa, so that everybody is happy.
2008-10-28 15:27:39
164.   KG16
154 - that is Plank #1 of my campaign for OCDA. Plank #2 is TBD
2008-10-28 15:28:15
165.   Bob Timmermann
I fully support people who are more pedantic than I am.
2008-10-28 15:28:52
166.   Bob Timmermann
Isn't the Irvine Company owned by Noah Cross?
2008-10-28 15:28:54
167.   delias man
160 The Angels should build that in some OC beach community.
2008-10-28 15:30:50
168.   fanerman
Wikipedia sez: "The Irvine Company is the model for The O.C.'s The Newport Group, Orange County's most-powerful real estate developer."
2008-10-28 15:31:39
169.   scareduck
159 - and they would have the oldest outfield in the division if they did. I could sort of stand Manny as a perma-DH, but for the fact that the Angels have an unfortunate habit of using the position as a resting place for Vlad (who needs it).
2008-10-28 15:32:27
170.   Eric Enders
perma-DH sounds like Manny's hairstyle for next year.
2008-10-28 15:44:09
171.   KG16
168 - I have a witty comment in response, but it probably treads too heavily onto Rule 5 territory.
2008-10-28 15:44:51
172.   D4P
The O.C.'s The Newport Group, Orange County's most-powerful real estate developer

Huh. I would have guessed The Bluth Company.

2008-10-28 15:45:44
173.   Eric Stephen
Underdog, I forget why you root for two Eric-approved teams (Dodgers and Lakers) yet we are mortal enemies in football. Did you grow up in Denver or something, or was it one of those "liked them as a kid of some reason, and it stuck" reasons?
2008-10-28 15:46:02
174.   Eric Enders
172 That's Iraq's most powerful real estate developer.
2008-10-28 15:46:20
175.   Eric Stephen
You can't find a decent frozen banana these days in OC.
2008-10-28 15:46:46
176.   Eric Enders
As long as Kobe Bryant wears their uniform, the Lakers are only 50% Eric-approved.
2008-10-28 15:48:54
177.   Harold M Johnson
There's a 50% chance I'll be going to the Lakers game tonight. Friend has very good season tickets and it looks like the first choice (girlfriend) may not be able to go!
2008-10-28 15:50:07
178.   Eric Stephen
There's a "kid-tested" joke in there somewhere, but just for Kix I'm going to let it go.
2008-10-28 15:54:39
179.   Tripon
Mike (Lake Forest, CA): If you ran the Dodgers do you even consider trading Billingsley or Kershaw? Billingsley is already almost as good as Peavy (minus the two NLCS games) and Kersahw has all the tools to be one of the best lefties in the league shortly.*

SportsNation Buster Olney: Mike: Here's one way I might think about it -- First, if I harbored any doubts about either guy, whether as an injury risk or for other concerns, and perhaps as part of a larger plan -- in other words, if you get Peavy, you get a below-market star who can lead your staff, at a time when you're probably going to lose Derek Lowe. Because you save money there, you might be in a better position to re-sign Furcal or Manny, or do whatever else you want to do. But if you think those guys are both rising superstars, then no, you probably don't make the deal. It all depends on how they feel about them internally.

Externally, I feel that Peavy has a $22 million option I want no part of.

2008-10-28 16:02:07
180.   Eric Enders
Internally, I wonder to what degree the NLCS hurt Billingsley's status within the organization. Somehow, I don't think Torre and Colletti have visions of a flowing white gown bounding across a springtime meadow.
2008-10-28 16:02:13
181.   Eric Stephen
Regarding GA, from the Times:

An Angels spokeswoman said Tuesday the club intends to discuss a free-agent contract with Anderson, who recently severed ties with agent Chris Arnold and is representing himself.

Has representing oneself ever ended well? If anything, I think that bodes well for Anderson returning to the club next season. Who knows?

Anderson played for the Palm Springs Angels in the same park I played some senior league games at. One of my best friends was a batboy for them for two years, and GA was his favorite player from that team then, and he has liked him ever since. A genuine nice guy.

2008-10-28 16:05:03
182.   Tripon
181 Kenny Rogers got 8 million from the Tigers last year after firing Boras who tried to shop him against Rogers direct orders, and Sheffield negotiated his Yankees contract after he fired Boras. Boras claimed that he could have gotten a better contract from the Yankees and then sued Sheffield for a five percent cut.

The moral of the story is that Scott Boras is the devil.

2008-10-28 16:05:50
183.   Eric Enders
181 Son-In-Law of Satan represented himself in negotiations with the Phillies and ended up getting what seemed at the time to be a ridiculously generous multiyear deal for a fortysomething pitcher.
2008-10-28 16:13:52
184.   underdog
173 Hey, shouldn't you be watching Freaks and Geeks? ;-)

Well, the Reader's Digest Condensed Version of why I am mostly inexplicably a Broncos fan:

No, I didn't grow up in Denver. (Speaking of which, where's Hallux V these days?) But when I was a young 'un, and the Dodgers were the first team I rooted for, I started to get into football, too. I was 7 years old. The only thing I knew is that I hated the Cowboys. The first game I remember watching was that Super Bowl, with my dad and some of his friends, who were all rooting for Denver because they too hated Dallas. I noticed their QB had the same first name as me. And they were, of course, the underdogs.

I wanted a western team, but didn't like the Chargers or Raiders or Rams (and all the kids were fans of those teams so I wanted to be different) all that much (the latter were mostly bad), the 49ers were terrible, etc. I just liked the teams they had and their underdog status. My best friend in childhood was a Raiders fan and the first thing he noticed was my "stupid Broncos hat" but we hit it off anyway. He was also a Reds fan for reasons I could never quite figure out, except probably similar to why I was a Broncos fan (except the Reds were always good back then). And there you have it. It's not much, but it's what I have.

I've been to Denver a couple of times if that counts?

2008-10-28 16:14:14
185.   Eric Enders
2008-10-28 16:18:24
186.   silverwidow
180 Chad went over his career high in IP this year by 50+. Management would be ignorant fools if they blamed him for burning out at the end.
2008-10-28 16:22:35
187.   Eric Enders
Dodgers management? Ignorant fools? Inconthievable!
2008-10-28 16:33:33
188.   underdog
Never mind the NBA or the MLB, my g/f just got her biopsy back and it came back negative, no thyroid cancer, hooray!! {dance a jig}

Now I can breathe and relax.

And Tivo the Lakers game because I'm letting her pick a DVD to watch tonight in celebration. As long as it's not too girly.

2008-10-28 16:37:23
189.   Eric Enders
Like, say, the Donna Reed Show?
2008-10-28 16:38:10
190.   fanerman
188 Great news!
2008-10-28 16:39:08
191.   D4P
It's crying out for a review!
2008-10-28 16:39:42
192.   bhsportsguy
188 Congrats, I see a lot of Carrie Bradshaw in your future.
2008-10-28 16:40:16
193.   Bob Hendley
188 - Great news! Worse than girly are those Hallmark/Lifetime shows in which men mistreat women and deceive them. Everytime a male character does something bad in one of theose shows, my wife glances over at me like I am to blame.
2008-10-28 16:40:29
194.   Jim Hitchcock
188 How 'bout `Under the Tuscan Sun'?

I mean, it is rather girly, but it does have Diane Lane in it!

2008-10-28 16:40:53
195.   underdog
189 Hah hah. Oh man, no, she'd actually be even less likely to want to watch that than me. I could watch some for historical curiosity. No, we're gonna watch the True Blood episodes that she's missed, that's my sacrifice for her.

Now if only Donna Reed was actually a vampire in her show, we'd be set.

2008-10-28 16:43:11
196.   underdog
I will happily tolerate anything with Diane Lane in it -- although that one this year with Richard Gere looked torturously boring.

And thanks for your good thoughts.

And thankfully even she is burned out on Sex in the City, so I'm spared.

2008-10-28 16:47:11
197.   Jim Hitchcock
196 Wow, worse than `Unfaithful'?
2008-10-28 16:51:12
198.   underdog
197 Yes indeed.

2008-10-28 16:54:32
199.   Harold M Johnson
197 Unfaithful was the best! Er, at least certain parts were.
2008-10-28 17:07:40
200.   scareduck
170 - Mhanny Curl?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-10-28 17:08:49
201.   Tripon

Joe Mauer only made $3,750,000 in his first year of arbitration. I hope the dodgers argue for around that number and not overshoot themselves for Martin. You'll almost have to hope that Ryan Howard's arbitration case is looked as an anomaly instead of the new cost of doing business.

2008-10-28 17:10:12
202.   silverwidow
201 Mauer would be a logical Martin replacement. If it gets that far, of course.
2008-10-28 17:10:42
203.   KG16
182 , 183 - wait, so Moyer is Boras' son-in-law?
2008-10-28 17:13:02
204.   silverwidow
203 Moyer = Digger Phelps' son-in-law
2008-10-28 17:18:42
205.   KG16
204 - so Digger Phelps is Boras?

I'm so confused.

2008-10-28 17:19:42
206.   Bumsrap
Smaller, colder cities do not draw well in April. It is cold at the beginning of the season not just the end of the season.

When there was a 154 game schedule there were double headers and sometimes teams played each other 6 consecutive days. There was less travel which was good because there were prop planes and buses used for the travel.

I would be fine with 140 games but going back to 154 helps with the record book.

2008-10-28 17:20:09
207.   PDH5204
89 Think kinetic energy. A faster pitch brings more kinetic energy to the collision than a slower pitch [KE = 1/2 x m x v-squared]. There is also the notion of conservation of momentum [momentum, or p, = mv]. As v is central to both equations, a greater pitch velocity can only increase both the KE and the momentum that will need be conserved in our ball and bat collision.

Re the curveball versus fastball thing, think backspin versus topspin. Backspin means that the top of the ball spins away from the direction of travel of the ball. Topspin is the opposite.

And think of undercutting the ball, though not by much, since we want as solid a contact as otherwise possible. But if you visualize the undercut ball, you can see that the bat will reverse the spin of a fastball and add to or augment the spin of the curveball.

Why do we care? Because the ball has now changed direction of travel. And so the formerly topspin is now added backspin. And it is the backspin that gives lift.

I hope that this is clearer than mud, but if you visualize the ball spinning with backspin and topspin, and then visualize an undercut contact, you should see that with the fastball, the bat makes contact on the lower half of the ball traveling in the direction opposite the ball's spin, whereas with the curveball, the bat makes contact traveling in same direction as the ball's spin and so adds to or augments the spin. And, again, don't forget, backspin gives lift.

2008-10-28 17:36:31
208.   trainwreck
Someone's gonna have his neck bitten tonight.

Or do crazy V drugs.

2008-10-28 17:44:27
209.   D4P
V drugs...?

I mean, I started watching "Weeds" and all, but I'm still a neophyte when it comes to drug parlance.

2008-10-28 17:51:28
210.   trainwreck
In True Blood people do vampire blood as a drug. It is called V and people take it in a variety of ways.
2008-10-28 17:52:31
211.   wronghanded
154 I recently read that the city of Irvine is $75 million in surplus, not including a $20 million "rainy day" fund. So what I want to know is where do all those mello-roos payments go and why is there even a need for them? Right now they price me out of the market and I'm stuck paying $1,800 a month in rent for a 756 sq. ft. telephone booth. Needless to say, I hate the Irvine Company also.
2008-10-28 17:54:47
212.   D4P
I see that "The Sports Guy" is high on the Blazers this year. I also note (for the first time) that the Blazers play in the Northwest division alongside Minnesota and Oklahoma City.
2008-10-28 17:59:54
213.   fanerman
The Pacific division has 4 California teams and Phoenix.
2008-10-28 18:14:04
214.   trainwreck
Why does St. Louis not have a basketball team?
2008-10-28 18:15:19
215.   trainwreck
And if you think the conferences are weird in basketball, go check out the NHL and their Western Conference.
2008-10-28 18:15:38
216.   Eric Enders
214 Bob's brother and Rick Majerus will be interested to hear that.
2008-10-28 18:17:31
217.   trainwreck
If Larry Hughes never went to St. Louis, I am not sure I would have ever heard of the Bilikens.
2008-10-28 18:17:44
218.   Icaros

The Sports Guy is high on the smell of the bs that exudes from his mouth.

2008-10-28 18:19:17
219.   Eric Enders
214 I guess the real answer to the question is that St Louis's team moved to Atlanta in 1968 because the Mound City refused to build a new arena. Basically ever since then the size of St. Louis has been decreasing relative to other markets, so I guess nobody has ever wanted to move another team there. Plus it's always been a baseball town anyway.
2008-10-28 18:20:25
220.   D4P
Don't hate him because he's a fan of Boston sports.

Despise him.

2008-10-28 18:21:29
221.   trainwreck
But St. Louis is over 50 % Black/African American and I am willing to bet they prefer basketball to baseball.
2008-10-28 18:21:43
222.   Icaros

A very small few of us still feel compelled to follow the NFL team that is currently housed there.

2008-10-28 18:24:03
223.   Icaros
I look at Greg Oden's face and for the life of me can't understand how he is a day under 30.
2008-10-28 18:24:54
224.   trainwreck
He's a chameleon.
2008-10-28 18:26:46
225.   Icaros

He looks like he's wearing a mask made from armadillo skin.

2008-10-28 18:29:04
226.   Icaros
Meanwhile, Bynum still looks like a giant eight-year-old boy.
2008-10-28 18:29:29
227.   trainwreck
Maybe he is a real heavy drinker.
2008-10-28 18:31:59
228.   Bob Timmermann
There have been some half-hearted attempts to get an NBA team back in St. Louis, but there isn't enough corporate support to buy tickets.

St. Louis is having a hard enough time getting an MLS franchise. And people like soccer in St. Louis.

2008-10-28 18:32:21
229.   trainwreck
I bet Greg Oden was forced to stop trick-or-treating at age 7.
2008-10-28 18:34:29
230.   trainwreck
Well yeah, if you like soccer why in the world are you going to watch the MLS?
2008-10-28 18:34:48
231.   D4P
there isn't enough corporate support to buy tickets

I woulda thought The World's Greatest Fans would have been more than enough.

2008-10-28 18:57:49
232.   Icaros
Perhaps one benefit of our economic downturn will be that eventually St. Louis won't have enough money to keep an NFL team, so the Rams move to the richest available US market, i.e. home, to play in revolutionary Bluthton Stadium, floating above downtown LA.
2008-10-28 18:58:29
233.   El Lay Dave
188 Good news, indeed! I hope you are cooking or ordering in something good to eat (and drink) also.
2008-10-28 19:08:17
234.   regfairfield
Trading Joe Mauer is an even worse idea than trading Russell Martin.
2008-10-28 19:11:08
235.   El Lay Dave
Per Diamond Leung's blog:
The Dodgers are expected to announce that Lenny Harris will rejoin the organization as a minor league instructor.
2008-10-28 19:15:57
236.   El Lay Dave
Got a spare $500 laying around? Maybe want to meet Matt Luke (again)?
2008-10-28 19:37:16
237.   kinbote
When asked if he's seen TrueBlood, Joe Torre responded: "I have. I like that vampire Bill. He gets it. It's almost like things slow down for him when he's on the attack. He's been there before, and that means a lot."
2008-10-28 19:43:30
238.   trainwreck
Please do not tie up this game, Cavaliers.


Everyone outside of Cleveland

2008-10-28 19:44:35
239.   kinbote
Dave Cameron thinks Joe Crede is a free agent bargain:

2008-10-28 19:51:25
240.   trainwreck
Uggggggh, just end this stupid game.

How I loathe the Eastern Conference.

2008-10-28 19:52:54
241.   Icaros

I've grown to loathe the sight of Paul Pierce being happy.

2008-10-28 19:53:25
242.   trainwreck
I have always hated that.
2008-10-28 19:55:49
243.   trainwreck
This game has a different scoring box than the last one.

I guess they are trying out designs early in the year.

2008-10-28 19:56:10
244.   Icaros
Watching Oden limp down the court just now makes me think of Sam Bowie. Kevin Durant can play the part of Michael Jordan in this scenario.
2008-10-28 19:59:48
245.   kinbote
Last unreturned call of the night:

What does any of you think about Oliver Perez?

He gave up way too many walks last year, but a second lefty in the rotation would be nice. On the downside, I sense a Dreifort-like contract coming his way.


2008-10-28 20:01:33
246.   Icaros
Oden/Aldridge vs. Bynum/Gasol is like watching a battle of those trees from Lord of the Rings.
2008-10-28 20:04:31
247.   trainwreck
He is one of the better free agent pitchers out there. Could be a good fall back option.
2008-10-28 20:19:24
248.   Bob Hendley
244 - No NBA games tonight on Mexican TV. They are showing a game from the local professional league, however. Los Tecos UAG versus a team from Jalapa. Curiously, there is an expat on the Jalapa team named Sam Bowie, though not the same Bowie.

The league is not very good. I mean, once when I was much younger they tried to sign me up as a small forward. All 5'11'' of me.

2008-10-28 20:19:40
249.   scareduck
245 - upside: a miracle. Downside: you'll start wishing for injuries.
2008-10-28 20:22:55
250.   Chris H

Mello Roos goes to repay bonds taken out by the builder in order to pay for things like parks, sewage, and roads. In the old days these things were paid for the builders and built into the sales price of the new home. However, builders realized it would be more profitable if they bundled the costs of these things together and had future homeowners repay them over 20, 30, or 40 years. Mello Roos costs tend to fluctuate in boom and bust times.

Prices are going to continue to fall in Irvine for the next few years so there is no reason to purchase now. Unless you like losing money that is.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-10-28 20:23:05
251.   trainwreck
This NBA Live 09 commercial is agonizing.
2008-10-28 20:24:17
252.   trainwreck
This year's NBA season will be different, since I will just be waiting for the playoffs from day one.
2008-10-28 20:31:53
253.   scareduck
250 - well, that's one possibility.

A Mello-Roos District is an area where a special property tax on real estate in addition to the normal property tax is imposed on those real property owners within a Community Facilities District. This district has chosen to seek public financing through the sale of bonds for the purpose of financing certain public improvements and services. These services may include streets, water, sewage and drainage, electricity, infrastructure, schools, parks and police protection to newly developing areas. The tax you pay is used to make the payments of principal and interest on the bonds.

2008-10-28 20:50:01
254.   bhsportsguy
Ed Goren, President of Fox Sports, has this to say about a possible World Series day game.

"The viewers have a wonderful bargain," he said. "Turn on the TV -- for free -- watch some commercials and enjoy yourself."

2008-10-28 21:05:35
255.   silverwidow
Check out this quote on super sleeper prospect Nathan Eovaldi:

"Eovaldi throws as hard as Broxton did when we signed him," said assistant general manager Logan White. "If he starts, he'll throw in the mid-90s. If he relieves, he'll hit 100 mph easy."

Looks like we have another stud on the way...

2008-10-28 21:05:58
256.   underdog
Wow. Just caught up to this game, watching the first half in snippets. Wow, the Lakers defense has been amazing. It's only the first game of the season so it's a bit early to get excited, but they certainly look ready to play.

I agree with Icaros, those four big guys look like Ents. Oden's kind of moving around like one, too.

2008-10-28 21:30:48
257.   kinbote
255 I don't know what makes me more excited: "100 mph easy" or "assistant general manager Logan White."
2008-10-28 21:36:20
258.   trainwreck
Poor Greg Oden. He has had about as bad a start a number 1 pick has had.
2008-10-28 21:39:17
259.   kinbote
255 Michael Jackson references are in poor taste these days, but it's probably safe to say "Captain Eo" is an inevitable nickname . . .
2008-10-28 21:46:19
260.   LAbits
188 Good news!

Moyer? Whatever, sometimes you get beat. Wait 'til next year!

Digger Phelps, on the other hand... As a student, I kept having visions of water balloons or eggs or some projectile that would encourage him to suit up or GET OFF THE COURT! I like hearing him comment on UCLA as much as Joe Morgan commenting on the Dodgers, which is to say, not at all!

2008-10-28 22:24:29
261.   trainwreck
Quote from Raiders newest player:

According to a Philadlephia Eagles bio, Davis' first and only part-time job was when he worked the drive-thru window at Burger King for two hours.

"My math was terrible so I kept messing up the orders. I just got up, grabbed five double whoppers, threw them in my bag and rolled out."

2008-10-28 22:37:05
262.   trainwreck
To Lee Corbett this is probably nothing, but Australia seems so dangerous with all these crazy animals.,23599,24540399-5009760,00.html

2008-10-28 23:20:41
263.   underdog
The latest Rant from Mike is on how the Phillies were robbed by Bud Selig.


Also: I watched a little bit of Major League on HBO, for the first time in several years, and couldn't stop laughing at how 80s that movie looks, even though it was made at the very end of the 80s the people in it look about 7-10 years before that. Also, the Indians starting pitcher, Harris, looks like 5 years older than Jamie Moyer does now. But, hey, Steve Yeager's in it. And it's still a fun watch.

oh, and train, I'm really glad I didn't OD on "V" tonight. Wouldn't want to be hospitalized. ;-)

Night folks.

2008-10-28 23:22:24
264.   underdog
Ah, I just looked it up on IMDB and Chelcie Ross, who played Harris, was older than Jamie Moyer is now, when he made that movie. He was about 46 when they shot it.
2008-10-28 23:39:03
265.   trainwreck
I was hearing that nonsense on ESPNews when they showed Philadelphia radio.
2008-10-28 23:44:58
266.   trainwreck
Abdul Gaddy committed to Washington.

Even though I knew it was coming, I am sad.

2008-10-29 00:02:19
267.   ucladodger

He'll have fun not winning anything there. Washington will not be very good during his 2 years, but I don't think he ever cared a ton about winning. But hey, you have to give it to the kid for making 3 terrible decisions about his future. You don't see that too often. You'd think someone would step in and say - go to the best program on the West Coast, the one with the most exposure and 3 straight Final 4's, and the one that has a coach that has produced 4 1st round NBA point guards in 6 years before you get there. They were also your "second choice" the last time you committed to Arizona. But that would just be too logical and make too much sense.

2008-10-29 00:11:56
268.   trainwreck
He can go wherever he wants, but I am going to want to crush his Washington teams even more than usual.

And I hate Washington.

2008-10-29 06:35:46
269.   Dodger Dawg
The only thing I would change about the game would be to start the season earlier, and either have the DH in both leagues or get rid of it altogether (my choice), that and kill inter league play. Also the only thing Peavey has over Bills is makeup. Their stuff is equal IMO but sometimes Bills looks like a deer in the headlights whereas Peavey tries to intimidate.
2008-10-29 07:30:49
270.   JoeyP
267- Maybe he wanted to go play in an offense that has more freedom.

UCLA's offense is awful.
And thats with having good players to run it (whatever it was).

Howland's half court offense/pressure defense approach isnt for all kids.

2008-10-29 08:33:20
271.   Gen3Blue
I would never have guessed the amazing similarity by age of G.Anderson and S. Garvey's stats. (Baseball-reference)
2008-10-29 08:41:32
272.   Kevin Lewis
Reading about how the Phillies were "robbed" is making me wish for a TB comeback more than ever. The strike zone for the Rays pitching is really pissing me off.
2008-10-29 08:50:02
273.   Bob Timmermann
And I thought Lute Olson retired.
2008-10-29 08:57:57
274.   Brent Knapp
From previous thread: Thank you to those who gave me advice regarding buying a new TV. I think I'm going to wait till prices drop a little more so I can get 120 hz. Black Friday perhaps.
2008-10-29 09:00:01
275.   D4P
The Lakers play their first home and road games of the year in the same building.

In related news, Kobe Bryant had more rebounds last night than Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum combined.

2008-10-29 09:00:57
276.   natepurcell

Lakers look pretty decent though!

2008-10-29 09:01:05
277.   Eric Stephen
I thought the Bruins have rated highly the last few years on points per possession, but their style and pace dictation has lead to low overall point totals. I'll have to look that up.

It's hard to argue with three straight Final Four trips.

2008-10-29 09:02:32
278.   D4P
Giving up only 76 points is definitely good. The offense didn't look as good on paper, but 96 points on an off-night? is not too shabby.
2008-10-29 09:06:26
279.   Eric Stephen
Nate, did you end up getting the NBA League Pass?
2008-10-29 09:08:45
280.   D4P
I don't know what "NBA League Pass" is, but all 3 games last night were viewable (for free) via the website I posted a few weeks ago (
2008-10-29 09:11:34
281.   ToyCannon
I paused the TV with the Greg Oden video on and asked my wife who knew nothing about him how old this guy looked. She guessed 45. He kind of has the face of a witch doctor. As someone said he's looking very much like Sam Bowie right now.

The Baron is going to start tonight after missing the whole preseason but Camby still sits. Expect lots of turnovers. Lakers would have an easy go of it , if it wasn't for the the fact it is a back to back before they really have their legs. Not having to work very hard against Portland should help.

2008-10-29 09:13:33
282.   Icaros
When your garbage-time players are Luke Walton and Chris Mihm, you have a really good team.

Also, funny how Mike Carminati turned into such a lame fanboy when his team finally went somewhere in the postseason. Good thing I never read him too much in the first place.

2008-10-29 09:19:35
283.   D4P
To be fair to "Mike", his blog is not entitled "Mike's Rational Essays on America's Favorite Pass Time".
2008-10-29 09:20:23
284.   Eric Stephen
Lakers were 11-5 in the 2nd leg of back-to-backs last season, including 9-5 on the road.

Of course, they didn't have their first back-to-back last season until the season was two weeks old.

2008-10-29 09:21:27
285.   Icaros

That's true.

2008-10-29 09:21:59
286.   Eric Stephen
Those first set of quotation marks were gratuitous.
2008-10-29 09:25:38
287.   ToyCannon
At least he's writing. With Bronx Banter gone the only fresh content will be coming from Jon, Bob, and Josh.
2008-10-29 09:25:43
288.   Eric Stephen
Lawler's Law was one for one last evening.
2008-10-29 09:26:23
289.   Tripon
277 If you are Bill Plaschke, you will argue that UCLA choked all three final fours away.
2008-10-29 09:26:53
290.   natepurcell
Nate, did you end up getting the NBA League Pass?

Yep, it was like 4 payments of 42 dollars or something; split between one of my roommates and I.

It'll probably be worth it. Lakes and Clips should be fun to watch tonight too.

2008-10-29 09:27:04
291.   ToyCannon
A healthy Mihm is going to be a life saver for the Lakers when Bynum gets hurt again.
2008-10-29 09:27:10
292.   D4P
With Bronx Banter gone the only fresh content will be coming from Jon, Bob, and Josh

The Juice blog has fresh (squeezed) content...

2008-10-29 09:27:11
293.   Tripon
287 He stopped updating for about three months for some reason.
2008-10-29 09:27:36
294.   Icaros
At least he's writing.

The same could be said for Plaschke.

2008-10-29 09:28:37
295.   Icaros

How do you know Bynum will get hurt again?

2008-10-29 09:29:12
296.   D4P
And what makes him think Mihm will stay healthy?
2008-10-29 09:30:51
297.   Eric Stephen
That was just a whammy attempt.

Prediction: Bynum will play more games during the 2008-2009 regular season than Baron Davis.

2008-10-29 09:31:00
298.   ToyCannon
Obviously I don't, just an opinion.
2008-10-29 09:32:06
299.   regfairfield
Mike's rant seems fairly reasonable to me. How many of us would take it totally in stride if that happened to the Dodgers?
2008-10-29 09:33:26
300.   ToyCannon
Given that the best player on the Clippers has never not gotten hurt unless it was someone pedestrian like Loy Vaught I'd be a fool to take that bet, but since you foolishly bet on Kent even though you knew it was a fools bet I'll take you up on it.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-10-29 09:35:42
301.   ToyCannon
Those of us who can separate rational thought from emotional thought.
2008-10-29 09:35:45
302.   Jim Hitchcock
Man, the possibility of the baseball season ending with a 3 inning game seems awful depressing.
2008-10-29 09:36:30
303.   Kevin Lewis

I wouldn't be calling it a conspiracy, and there is no way I would want my team to clinch on a rain out.

2008-10-29 09:40:22
304.   Icaros
Yes, a five-inning World Series clinch, in the rain, would be really lame, but at the same time perhaps perfectly fitting for the nation's saddest sack fanbase.
2008-10-29 09:41:49
305.   Kevin Lewis
It has been a really weird series so far.
2008-10-29 09:50:06
306.   Bob Timmermann
Peter Gammons has declared this to be the worst World Series ever!

Because we all remember last year's World Series with such fondness. And the 2006 World Series too.

I'm getting space reserved on the obelisk.

2008-10-29 09:51:15
307.   kinbote
So, if we were in the Phillies' situation, and let's say Lowe had been the starting pitcher, to whom would we turn? Kuo, Wade, Maddux?
2008-10-29 09:51:34
308.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Maybe I'm just sympathetic to Phillies fans, since I live in Philladelphia, but it sure seemed that MLB was waiting (and praying) for the Rays to come back and tie it. I think if the game were tied after 5 they would have stopped there. I think saying MLB "orchestrated" a tie is too strong, but it certainly appeared that the Rays were helped by the weather in the top of that inning.

I don't think many Phillies fans would be happy to see the WS end on a rainout. I think the frustration comes from the Phillies losing a 1-run lead due to MLB trying to save face.

I don't believe that Selig decided ex ante that the game would not be called before 9 innings. If that were the case, why not announce it ahead of time?

2008-10-29 10:01:13
309.   kinbote
306 Well, 2006 had all the pitchers' errors; 2007 had--I forget. Snow? At least this World Series has a young, talented, turn-around story vs. a star-filled franchise "due" for a championship. The story of this series could take a radical plot twist if it heads back to Tampa [or wherever they play].
2008-10-29 10:03:17
310.   Bob Timmermann
Since no postseason game EVER had been called before nine innings, it was a pretty safe assumption that the game was going to be played to its conclusion. And the Rays knew this. At least Maddon claims that was what he was told.

And now it's time to add another name to my obelisk...

2008-10-29 10:05:12
311.   fanerman
310 Do you ever have issues with running out of space on your obelisk? Can your obelisk grow in size? Do you have multiple obelisks?
2008-10-29 10:07:41
312.   Bob Timmermann
It's 20 feet high. With four sides. I've got plenty of space.
2008-10-29 10:11:00
313.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Am I being added to the obelisk, or are you still talking about Peter Gammons?

Who else is on the obelisk?

2008-10-29 10:12:38
314.   Eric Stephen
A tie was certainly a more convenient place to suspend the game, but how were the Rays the only team that benefited from the rain? The Phillies certainly had their chances to score due to the weather (those 5th inning popups were treacherous) but they didn't.

Also, Selig (believe this if you must) claims he told both general managers before the game that the game would go 9 innings no matter what, and that they all agreed to start the game.

2008-10-29 10:14:25
315.   Eric Stephen
Kershaw, much to the chagrin of an inebriated fan witnessed in the parking lot after Game 4 by MC Safety & I.
2008-10-29 10:15:30
316.   Bob Timmermann
I'm afraid it's now Gammons AND you.
2008-10-29 10:17:37
317.   D4P
BTW: What did Arizona do to get its name removed from The Obelisk?
2008-10-29 10:18:07
318.   fanerman
Obelisk Thoughts is easily my second favorite subject after Dodger Thoughts.
2008-10-29 10:18:15
319.   Eric Stephen
Is Carlos Perez himself on the obelisk? This could be a first!
2008-10-29 10:18:39
320.   Eric Stephen
Time heals all obelisk etchings.
2008-10-29 10:18:48
321.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona was never on the obelisk. It was a different type of grudge.
2008-10-29 10:20:15
322.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I was not able to watch the game (I only had access to radio), so it's hard for me to say who was helped more by the rain. My point is not so much that the rays were given an unfair advantage due to the rain, but rather that the game should have ended earlier, while the Phillies still had the lead.
2008-10-29 10:21:08
323.   kinbote
315 Similarly, I hope Tampa Bay throws Price out there. That could be the stuff of which legends . . .
2008-10-29 10:22:02
324.   Eric Stephen
Bob, I would like to nominate Dave Krieger of the Rocky Mountain News for obelisk inclusion:

KRIEGER: Fixed site for World Series makes sense

2008-10-29 10:24:00
325.   Eric Stephen
I agree that the conditions were pretty bad for a few innings, and perhaps should have been halted (but not concluded) earlier, but I don't think either team had an advantage because of it.
2008-10-29 10:25:14
326.   ToyCannon
While Andrew may not feel that Joe Crede would be the right man for the job, Dave Cameron thinks otherwise.
Given his defensive prowess I'm a little surprised that Andrew thinks so little of him to name his blog after him.
2008-10-29 10:25:34
327.   Kevin Lewis

I watched the game from the get go, and they should have delayed it before it became official. Then scratch the game and start over. The rain was bad enough at that point.

2008-10-29 10:26:18
328.   Bob Timmermann
And which city is the fixed site? Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Diego, Miami, St. Petersburg, Phoenix.

What if a team from that city makes it to the World Series? As has happened in 2001, 2002, 2003, and this year.

When the Cubs make it to the World Series and people in Chicago find out that the World Series, which they've been waiting to see for all of their lives, is being played at Tropicana Field, I predict there will be other feelings about a neutral site World Series.

2008-10-29 10:26:44
329.   ToyCannon
Hopefully a better legend then what we got from Chad/Clayton when they faced Philly.
2008-10-29 10:27:26
330.   Jim Hitchcock
312 I've seen it! On the cover of `Who's Next'!
2008-10-29 10:29:25
331.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Again, I don't think most fans of either team, or baseball in general, would have been happy with the Phillies being declared WS champs after the 5th inning (or rather, after a rain delay following the 5th inning). Also, since both teams were playing in the same conditions (with the possible exception of the timing of each team's at bats), it's hard to say one had an advantage over the other.

Even so, it is easy for me to sympathize with Phillies fans who felt they lost a lead after the game should have been stopped.

2008-10-29 10:29:31
332.   Sam PHL
Just for the quality of baseball, the game should have been delayed earlier. It didn't really provide a good platform for MLB to showcase its product.

Also, count me in the group that thought MLB was hoping for a tie. The weather didn't get worse in the 6th. Remember Kazmir had to get a popsicle stick to scrape his cleats in the 5th I think.

Sure, it makes sense for MLB to have planned to let the game go 9 from the start. But I'm skeptical that Selig and sense go together.

I'm prepared to be obelisked if I must.

2008-10-29 10:34:01
333.   Xeifrank
Funny that Phillie fans lament the Rays scoring one run in the 6th inning slop, when the Phillies had two runners on with nobody out in the B5th and couldn't even score in very similar conditions. And according to that strike-zone camera that Fox has (not sure how accurate it is) Pat Burrell was struck out about 2-1/2 times in the bottom of the 5th before he walked. There is just no logic in this "the tie was orchestrated" argument. If the Rays don't score in the 6th, do they then keep playing until the Rays tie it up in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning? Of course not. And if Bud Selig was orchestrating a tie, then why didn't they just call it after Pena's single scored Upton. Heck, Longoria's line drive could've easily gone for a hit and made the score 3-2 Rays. It is what it is, 2-2 B6th... advantage still rests with the Phillies as they have 33% more outs to play with than the Rays do.
vr, Xei
2008-10-29 10:36:22
334.   Sam PHL
There's a difference between orchestrating and hoping.
2008-10-29 10:37:19
335.   Bob Timmermann
I don't put people on the obelisk on a whim. I gather evidence, weigh the facts, take depositions, and then I have a show trial.
2008-10-29 10:37:43
336.   Bob Timmermann
Orchestration is not a thing with feathers.
2008-10-29 10:38:33
337.   Sam PHL
In other words, Selig was saved from making a tough decision. I believe most Phillies fans would have been fine with playing the full 9. The circumstances of the suspension just seem fishy to folks. But it's probably just a lucky / unlucky coincidence.
2008-10-29 10:41:22
338.   Xeifrank
334. They can hope all they want, the players swing the bats, the pitchers throw the pitches and the umps call the strikes. Hoping didn't cause the Phillies to leave the bases loaded in the B5th, or cause Upton to steal 2nd base in the slop, or score from second base on a slow track.
vr, Xei
2008-10-29 10:42:42
339.   Sam PHL
338. I agree. It just seemed like the decision was made easier with a tie. That's all I'm saying.
2008-10-29 10:44:26
340.   Xeifrank
339. I agree with that. I am partially responding to the chatter about the post at the Philly blog on the Toaster, and what nonsense I also read at The Good Phight blog. What you have said recently makes sense.
vr, Xei
2008-10-29 10:46:34
341.   Kevin Lewis

Good point on that one. I though Upton would be gunned down. I love watching him run. He has such a long stride that it looks like he is jogging compared to someone like Pierre.

2008-10-29 11:27:09
342.   KG16
328 - no fair looking ahead and contemplating unintended consequences. And no fair using logic like that. I mean, you're going against a sportswriter: foresight and logic are not their strong suits.
2008-10-29 11:38:37
343.   scareduck
312 - definitely looking forward to Obelisk Thoughts.

If someone touches the obelisk, will they suddenly become homicidal tool-users? And will one of the Strausses (Streiss?) be involved in the score?

2008-10-29 11:41:20
344.   Tripon

Manny's first, with only a -2 fielding in LF for the Dodgers.

Fenway warps defense for left fielders like nothing else.

2008-10-29 11:44:17
345.   Eric Stephen
By the end of November or so, there is a very real chance that 24-year old Jonathan Broxton will be the longest-tenured Dodger (using MLB time, not 40-man time).

Broxton debuted with the Dodgers on July 29, 2005, and everyone that was here prior to that has a tenuous future with the club:

Penny (8/3/04): exercise of option still up in the air
Brazoban (8/15/04): likely to be non-tendered; arbitration eligible but out of options
Kent (4/5/05): likely retired
Repko (4/6/05): likely to be non-tendered; arbitration eligible but out of options

2008-10-29 11:44:23
346.   Jon Weisman
2008-10-29 11:55:02
347.   underdog
My obelisk is like Spinal Tap's Stonehenge piece compared to Bob's real Stonehenge-sized obelisk, but I'm working on it.

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