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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Big Bucks, Some Whammies
2008-11-21 10:15
by Jon Weisman

A plan for the Dodgers to sign Manny Ramirez is offered by Houston Mitchell of the Times. It involves an increase in the team's payroll, but on the other hand, if you can live without some of the other choices Mitchell makes, you can knock that payroll back down to 2008 levels.

Mitchell's post reminds us that the ability for the Dodgers to sign Ramirez (or CC Sabathia) is there. The question is more about fear: fear of shelling out the big bucks vs. fear of not doing so.

The key, I continue to believe, is making sure that the players you spend money on are worthy. Frankly, I might be more troubled by Mitchell's $2 million for Angel Berroa than his $120 million for Ramirez. If the team can't get the big fish, the best course might be to enter 2009 with a lower-budget team that might allow you some flexibility in July.

Meanwhile, in a piece for Baseball Analysts, writer and Red Sox fan Paul Anthony compares his relationship with Ramirez to Stockholm syndrome.

* * *

Kevin Brown might not be a Hall of Famer, but he should at least get the same consideration as Mike Mussina, writes Eric Seidman at Fangraphs (Link via Rob Neyer at

From 1989-2000, though, Brown was by far one of the best pitchers in baseball. In fact, a look at some of the numbers allows him to stake claim as perhaps the fourth best in this 12-year span, behind Maddux, Clemens, and Johnson.

* * *

Rafael Furcal's medical reports are being examined, at least by the Oakland A's, writes Michael Urban at

Comments (169)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-21 10:51:44
1.   Jacob Burch
I realize this isn't a true LAT, but I had fun making this list so in case some of them just went straight to the NPUT:

If the Dido lovers have never tried Stars, Feist, Neko Case, Kat Flint, Basia Bulat, (and getting to the slightly odder voices) Jessica Hoop, Keren Ann, Cat Power, Shannon Wright, Regina Spektor, they may be up their alley. I'm missing a dozen or so that I can think of in that niche, but it's a start.

2008-11-21 10:51:51
2.   LogikReader
Where's Michael Larson when you need him? (actually R.I.P., he passed away some years ago)
2008-11-21 10:55:34
3.   scareduck
Since I got LAT'd, re In-N-Out Thoughts:

Here's something amazing: In-N-Out, which for years didn't acknowledge their secret menu items, not only has a web page for them now, but registered them as trademarks, too!

2008-11-21 10:55:44
4.   Eric Stephen
Press Your Luck was one of the greatest TV game shows of all time. RIP, Peter Tomarken.

Hopefully the Dodgers have as much success this winter as this man did a quarter century ago:

2008-11-21 10:56:32
5.   Eric Stephen
I spent too much time looking for the video! Well played, LogikReader!
2008-11-21 10:58:29
6.   Jacob Burch
3 It may have been a response to shenanigans of other start ups trying to steal the basic In-N-Out vibe--I know there was a chain in Utah they were in litigation with.
2008-11-21 10:59:32
7.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm glad Brent Leach was protected. He's very useful in Baseball Mogul.
2008-11-21 11:00:15
8.   fanerman
scareduck, there was an instance where Bob was chastising several posters for portraying "feminine" characteristics like having "feelings." I found it amusing. I don't think anybody else really noticed.

Here is the link:

2008-11-21 11:02:01
9.   Daniel Zappala
6 Yes, it's called Chadders, and it's in American Fork. The menu is identical, the food is very close, but not quite the same. There are, frankly, better burger places nearby. I don't know the current status of the litigation.
2008-11-21 11:03:22
10.   Andrew Shimmin
The official secret menu leaves off some of the unofficial secrets. It's a conspiracy!

2008-11-21 11:05:21
11.   ToyCannon
I have to admit being confused. Everyone keeps using the 2008 payroll as the benchmark even though we had no money in August, declined to pay Brad Penny a contract that he will surely match in the open market, delayed capital improvements for the 1st time in McCourts ownership, and in general have an economy in LA that is going to get worse. You don't just lose trillions of dollars in the market without an effect.

I must be wrong on this because everyone else seems to think we will spend between 110 - 120 million this coming season but I just see Frank doing a shell game with the high price free agents knowing all along the shell is in his pocket while he pretends to be a player. Josh is probably going to be shocked when they start laying off Dodger employee's who make nothing.
2008-11-21 11:05:46
12.   Humma Kavula
1 Basia Bulat!

That is all.

2008-11-21 11:07:25
13.   Jacob Burch
11 For what it's worth, I subscribe to your theory of low expectations this winter. A stopgap MIF and/or 3B, a short termable starter, and a few other bits and pieces.

To land either of the looming Big Two, a deal that is "too good to pass" would have to land, and I don't think it's happening.

2008-11-21 11:08:59
14.   Jacob Burch
12 I still haven't figured out how to say it. I was saying Ba-See-Uh for the longest time, but was told "Isn't it basj-ah?" or "Beige-ah?"

I'm sure Wiki could correct me, but I like my (probably incorrect) saying.

If you like her, I really recommend Kat Flint. I ended up liking her record more, and her song "Christopher You're a Soldier" is probably my favorite song on the year.

2008-11-21 11:11:51
15.   still bevens
11 Makes you wonder whether this FA season is the beginning of a downturn for huge FA contracts. I cant see MLB continuing its record attendance numbers if people dont have, you know, jobs, let alone discretionary income to shell out money for a game.
2008-11-21 11:12:01
16.   El Lay Dave
173, last topic: Any singer capable of playing the piano, guitar, and drum parts of his or her own composition at a level acceptable for publication wrote a boring song.

Uh, Stevie Wonder?

2008-11-21 11:12:12
17.   Jacob Burch
Also, my girlfriend strongly hinted at a surprise that would require me to bring my Colts jersey to San Diego this weekend while visiting her, and that I would have to leave Sunday evening a little later than usual.

Unless I'm in for the letdown of the century, here's hoping I extend my streak to 2-0!

2008-11-21 11:12:30
18.   Humma Kavula
14 Apparently, it's Bah-shuh Boo-laht.

And mine own preferred fave-rave is "In the Night."

2008-11-21 11:12:44
19.   Jacob Burch
16 And a hundred other artists I could name. I think it's Shimmin being Shimmin.
2008-11-21 11:13:51
20.   Jacob Burch
18 SFA? They were fun when I got to see them live a few years ago, with Caribou opening. Great show, especially since my brother was the SFA fan, and I caribou.
2008-11-21 11:16:15
21.   ToyCannon
Just to add my two cents on female singers. One of my favorites has been Kasey Chambers. This is a great song from her debut album 9 years ago.
2008-11-21 11:16:53
22.   Jon Weisman
11 - Either way, we don't know.

First, let's say that the 2008 payroll is the benchmark. You can still sign Ramirez and come in under that payroll. The reason Mitchell's plan (which I just linked to for conversation) goes over that payroll is because he also grabs Furcal, Blake, Berroa, etc.

I think Penny is irrelevant to the payroll conversation - they clearly just didn't want him anymore - it was a small-scale Milton Bradley.

If the Dodgers max out their payroll in the offseason, then you're faced again with an August when they have no more money to spend. But that doesn't mean they can't max out their payroll.

There is absolutely no indication that the Dodgers lost money last year. Are their reserves depleted? Probably. But if the organization made money last year with a $120 million payroll or whatever it was, all McCourt has to do is factor some potential decline in consumer spending for 2009. Based on the informal poll I conducted here a couple weeks ago, it doesn't seem like people are going to stop going to the games.

As for the captial improvements, part of the reason those were postponed was because of the WBC using the stadium in March. But even if money's a factor, I'm not sure that relates to player payroll. Given what I know about the Dodger finances, I'm pretty sure those two budgets operate independent of each other. Same with any layoffs that might come. The fate of a PR assistant won't have anything to do with Manny.

All this is a very long way of saying that the Dodgers might lower payroll in 2009, but there's no reason to assume they will.

2008-11-21 11:17:17
23.   Jim Hitchcock
3 Bison burgers. That's the ticket.
2008-11-21 11:21:22
24.   dzzrtRatt
1 In the WSJ the other day, Jim Fusilli chastised James Taylor for only recording very well-known songs from very well-known writers on his recent "Covers" CD (which I haven't heard, but sounds dull even by JT's standards.) Why couldn't a singer with Taylor's audience give some exposure to younger songwriters.

I freaked out, though, when he listed them, and I realized I knew about three of them. I love great songwriting. Who do you guys like from this list? Who are these people:

"Peter Bradley Adams, Eef Barzelay, A.A. Bondy, Rivers Cuomo of Weezer, John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats, Kathleen Edwards, Geoff Farina, Trevor Garrod of Tea Leaf Green, Matt Hales, John Legend, Leona Naess and Samuel Dixon, Tara Nevins and Jeb Puryear of Donna the Buffalo, Ne-Yo, Conor Oberst, Daniel Rossen of Grizzly Bear and Department of Eagles, and Vienna Teng."

I've heard a little bit of Weezer. I am a fan of Kathleen Edwards, and own a couple of her CDs. I've seen CD covers of John Legend in Starbucks, but never heard him. I saw Conor Oberst on Jay Leno once and didn't like him. I've come across the name "Ne-Yo" in the news somewhere. All the rest of those names are utterly unknown to me.

I'm feeling old.

2008-11-21 11:23:34
25.   dzzrtRatt
22 Maybe McCourt, like a lot of wealthy, leveraged investors, got a margin call, or fears one.
2008-11-21 11:27:24
26.   Tripon
My body is trying to cause me immense pain. I blame the entire human race and evolution for wisdom teeth.
2008-11-21 11:29:34
27.   Andrew Shimmin
I thought every penny the McCourts had was tied up in the Dodgers? Being broke can have advantages.
2008-11-21 11:30:44
28.   dzzrtRatt
19 I think what Shimmin's saying is, the difficulty involved in playing a musical instrument while singing necessarily limits the level of complexity that a song can achieve.

He's wrong, but I think that's what he means.

Stevie Wonder wouldn't be a good counter because he had time in the recording studio to work out all the parts and overdub them. He probably sang on a separate track.

The best counter to his statement is the live 1971 Neil Young CD that came out about a year ago, "Live at Massey Hall." It's just Neil and his acoustic guitar. While he's singing these elaborate lyrics of what were then new songs like "Old Man," he's playing these very complex and unusual chord patterns and fills that require great dexterity. It is a virtuoso performance and proof if it was ever needed that Neil Young is a genius.

For ordinary mortals, the duty of singing and accompanying yourself might be a limit on what you can do. But some people are just musically gifted.

2008-11-21 11:30:50
29.   fanerman
26 All 4 out at once? Did they give you painkillers?
2008-11-21 11:32:22
30.   Sam PHL
24. Mountain Goats. They can be cryptic, but they have very intersting lyrics. There's a real payoff when the song meanings start to "click," although it can take a few listens.
2008-11-21 11:32:52
31.   Bill Crain
Aren't you the guy who called Tim Floyd "slimy"?

You know, I could call John Wooden a despicable human being. And I could tell stories to back it up, too, though it wouldn't be appropriate here; I have to respect the intent of Rule 3.

But you make a crack like that about someone about whom you apparently know nothing, I've gotta figure Rule 2 needs to be suspended.

Though it may seem that way at times, this is not "Bruin Thoughts." Still less it is "Rabid Partisan Moronic Bruin Thoughts." That's another site; check with Google.

2008-11-21 11:33:44
32.   Tripon
29 Actually, I'm just exaggerating right now, I only have one growing in right now, and its making chewing any kind of food painful.

However, I know I'm going to pay for this in the end.

2008-11-21 11:34:18
33.   ToyCannon
The McCourts did not need to lose money on the Dodgers to be in a financial bind in today's market. You are right in that we do not know but it seems prudent to me to expect the budget to drop, not stay the same or be increased.
Maybe I'm just crying wolf.
2008-11-21 11:34:27
34.   fanerman
31 Um, huh?
2008-11-21 11:34:44
35.   Gen3Blue
16 I almost made that comment. He's one of the exceptions that probably proves the rule.
2008-11-21 11:38:11
36.   Tripon
31 I'm a USC fan, and I call Tim Floyd slimy because there was no in hell he didn't know about Mayo's problems, and there's no in hell he could look at Lil' Romeo as a legit D1 player. Floyd's using the flaws of the system to the best of his ability, but I can only roll my eyes whenever he displays the 'aw shucks, I don't know about that' routine. Tim Floyd's the head of a D1 program that is trying to reach elite status, he knows everything about his program and all the shady deals that it takes to create it. If I call him slimy, its because situations with Mayo and Lil' Romeo didn't need to happen, and it did anyway because Floyd does not care at all about how he gets his recruits, never mind the repercussions USC may have to deal with later on.
2008-11-21 11:38:57
37.   Jon Weisman
27 - Give or take a couple of $25 million houses.
2008-11-21 11:39:30
38.   Humma Kavula
24 Ah, the Mountain Goats.

Imagine the most nasally male voice you've ever heard. Now make it more nasally. Give the owner of that voice... um... below-average guitar skills. Have him record a song on a boombox, such that his recordings -- and I mean this literally -- are accompanied by the percussive sound of the motor of the boom box as it winds the cassette tape. Each song ends with a zzzhhh-zzzhhh-zzzhhh sound.


The songs are amazing, beautiful, and haunting. Find "Going to Georgia" for an especially good example of an extremely good songwriter.

In case I'm not being clear, I love the Mountain Goats.

2008-11-21 11:41:37
39.   Icaros

The versions of "Cowgirl in the Sand," "Don't Let it Bring You Down," and "Journey Through the Past" on that album are unreal.

2008-11-21 11:42:19
40.   Sam PHL
38. Yes, another acolyte. I'd also recommend Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton, No Children, and This Year as good intro songs to tMG. Going to Georgia is awesome of course, too.
2008-11-21 11:42:53
41.   Bill Crain
Okay, fair enough, if that's your opinion, you're entitled to it.

I think you're dead wrong, but that hardly matters. It's the name-calling I find offensive.

2008-11-21 11:42:59
42.   kinbote
There is no way we will enter the 2009 season with a rotation of Bills/Kuroda/Kershaw/McDonald/[Schmidt or Stults]. Based on everything we've heard from Colletti and especially Torre, we will be adding at least one starting pitcher. If we somehow land CC, I hope we don't even think about adding another starter. If we end up with Randy Johnson, I'm sure we'll supplement him with another lower-tier arm. As inconsistent as our offense was last year, I still believe pitching is our #1 priority.

If forced, I predict would the following:

1. We sign Randy Johnson.
2. We re-sign Furcal.
3. We sign or trade for a low-risk 2b (like Iguchi) to provide competition for Hu/Abreu/DeJesus.
4. We settle on DeWitt at 3b.
5. We re-sign Nomar as a utility player.
6. We swap Pierre for a bloated starting pitcher contract (maybe Carlos Silva).

I can see us leaving ourselves some payroll flexibility for midseason acquisitions. With the NL West what it is, we can afford to enter the season in a let's-see-what-we-have mode. Let's face it: if we stink, Colletti will be gone. If we're good, he could get one more chance at the deadline to make a franchise-changing trade.

2008-11-21 11:43:17
43.   Andrew Shimmin
Did Stevie Wonder ever play the guitar on a recording? Piano and drums, but I don't think guitar. My argument is that nobody is that good. It's not possible to get good enough at each of those instruments (and have a reasonable voice) to do it on music that isn't so simple that it's boring. Studio musicians are amazingly good at what they do (specialization is pretty terrific). As an exercise, I have no beef with it, but that's filler for a box set. Or Andy Bernard.
2008-11-21 11:43:50
44.   Humma Kavula
40 I also have a very very soft spot for the song "Duke Ellington."
2008-11-21 11:46:09
45.   kinbote
Franz Liszt was good enough to play the stuff he wrote!
2008-11-21 11:46:35
46.   Jacob Burch
44 Going to Georgia is the proper start for the Goats' Lo-Fi stuff. But The Sunset Tree may be the best start of all.
2008-11-21 11:46:39
47.   arborial
31 actually I googled "Rabid Partisan Moronic Bruin Thoughts" and it came up with another DT post from earlier this year:

2008-11-21 11:47:00
48.   Eric Stephen
I think there's enough varied rooting interests here to at least earn the label "Pac-10 Thoughts."
2008-11-21 11:51:38
49.   CodyS
11 I have been thinking the exact same thing. Any reasonable budget for next year has to assume drastically lowered revenues.
2008-11-21 11:51:48
50.   Jim Hitchcock
It's not possible to get good enough at each of those instruments (and have a reasonable voice) to do it on music that isn't so simple that it's boring.

Extreme over generalization alert. And simply, not true. I am not a particulary gifted musician myself, but I know those who are.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-21 11:51:58
51.   Humma Kavula
46 Oh, Jacob, my musical doppelganger.

You like all the bands that make Bride of Kavula wonder what the hell kind of music I'm listening to and fear for our child.

2008-11-21 11:52:30
52.   Sam PHL
46. Good point. My wife usually hates my musical taste, but I think You or Your Memory and Broom People are two of her all-time favorite songs.
2008-11-21 11:53:00
53.   Jacob Burch
51 The Mountain Goats are a pretty fair candidate for that category, though. Any hate for Magnolia goes right out, though.
2008-11-21 11:53:42
54.   Zak
Things people are testy about today

1. Turkeys
2. Masculinity
3. Female singers
4. Music - singers with or without talent edition
5. Name calling
6. Pac-10 baskeball
7. And everyone's all time favorite - how broke are the McCourts?

I love DT like I love TiVo (or my friendly neighborhood DVR), but today will not go down as a banner day.

2008-11-21 11:54:14
55.   Jacob Burch
53 That said, "This Year," especially live, has to be enjoyed by all.
2008-11-21 11:54:15
56.   Bill Crain
I knew a guy who ran "Reasoned, Rational, Well-Thought-Out-And-Articulated Thoughts." He had to close it down for lack of content.

I still miss "Fire Jim Tracy."

2008-11-21 11:55:38
57.   Andrew Shimmin
Albert Pujols is a great baseball player, but he can't pitch or play shortstop. Not at the big league level.
2008-11-21 11:56:48
58.   rockmrete

"Let's face it: if we stink, Colletti will be gone"

It is Colletti's last year, and he has given out alot of money that has not produced. Could be he is forced to ride out those contracts, and or spend a little on one year deals so they can start the following year a lot less burdened by those contracts. With or woithout Colletti

2008-11-21 11:56:51
59.   fanerman
54 Yeah, for a Friday, tensions are a bit high. No yey, as I like to say. But I'm ditching work early after lunch because my friend is visiting, so it's all good.
2008-11-21 11:58:45
60.   Humma Kavula
53 Predicting what Bride of K will like or not like is a fool's errand.

She has no musical taste. It's not that her taste is bad (or good) -- it's that it doesn't exist. She has no opinion about music.

She had not heard Badly Drawn Boy. I played Hour of Bewilderbeast; she likes Badly Drawn Boy.

She had not heard Wilco. I played "Jesus, Etc." It was her favorite song for months.

She had not heard my favorite band, the New Pornographers. I played the songs I can't get out of my head. Her response: Meh. But she does love Neko Case's solo stuff.

2008-11-21 11:58:49
61.   Jim Hitchcock
56 Thank you for that, Bill :)
2008-11-21 12:00:10
62.   Jacob Burch
For members of this board, I suggest "Cubs in Five" to start out your Mountain Goats Journey, outdated Tampa Bay Bucs line or not.
2008-11-21 12:03:03
63.   Hollywood Joe
New Rant

I know it's a couple of posts in the past but did anyone notice the golden arches in the artist rendering of the spankin' new spring training facility.

Try as though I might, I cannot totally separate the romance and reality of baseball in my head and heart

I am not sure why (well I probably am sure but don't feel like really going into it) but after the relative unspoiled homespun beauty of Vero Beach, having that McD sign so prominently displayed on the artist rendering makes me sad

2008-11-21 12:03:22
64.   arborial
57 but I bet if he needed to CC could probably play first base and hit at league average.
2008-11-21 12:04:10
65.   dzzrtRatt
My son has evolved into a songwriter. He's a good singer who appeared in several of his high school's musicals, but he is not a particularly skilled pianist and plays no other instruments. He uses Finale and a Midi connection to a Casio keyboard to write and orchestrate his music, which is kind of art-songs-meets-Broadway. Stephen Sondheim and Danny Elfman are his two biggest influences, but he also works in a little Frank Zappa and Steely Dan. As you can imagine, his music is complex.

He applied to Berklee College of Music, and as part of the audition, he had to perform one of his songs, accompanying himself on piano. He choose one of his easiest songs, although it's still pretty complicated, and spent, I'd guess, two solid weeks practicing it. It didn't really come together til the last two days before the tryout. He got a lot further than I would have guessed. Apparently, it was good enough. They accepted him, even though this is the only music he wrote that they'd heard. He's leaving for Boston in two months.

2008-11-21 12:06:00
66.   D4P
We have a friend who graduated from Berklee. He now writes "jingles".

On a related note, he and his wife are both independently wealthy.

2008-11-21 12:06:24
67.   Jacob Burch
65 That's incredible, a big congrats to him. I have had a friend get in and turn it down for a more 'practical' life, which I have to think he may end up regretting, knowing his personality.

My brother was probably good enough to get in, but decided the other Berkeley was a better fit for his interests. He and music are like I and computers/programming--great as a hobby, but too much can be too much.

2008-11-21 12:06:35
68.   fanerman
65 Congrats!
2008-11-21 12:06:42
69.   ToyCannon
I found no tension in today comments other then Bill not liking a big program basketball coach being called slimy.
2008-11-21 12:06:46
70.   bhsportsguy
65 Congrats but if he comes own wearing a dark blue cap with a red "B" or some awful colored green t-shirt, you know what you will have to do, don't you?
2008-11-21 12:07:09
71.   Jon Weisman
63 - The thing is, ballpark advertising dates back a century.
2008-11-21 12:07:34
72.   Jon Weisman
65 - Awesome!
2008-11-21 12:07:44
73.   dzzrtRatt
60 The New Pornographers are great. Neko Case is great.

I will check out the Mountain Goats. They way you describe them, I can't quite picture James Taylor doing one of their songs.

2008-11-21 12:08:00
74.   dzzrtRatt
argh...."the way"
2008-11-21 12:08:58
75.   Jacob Burch
Artists I like that I can think of who went to Berklee, outside of fairly well known ones (Quincy Jones etc): Aimee Mann, Dianna Krall, Mellowdrone.

The list is much much longer, but this is from memory

2008-11-21 12:09:56
76.   Jacob Burch
74 I have a really hard time seeing it as well.

But if Peter Gabriel can do a Magnetic Fields song, anything--ANYTHING--is possible.

2008-11-21 12:11:30
77.   Samhain
43 It is possible for a musician to play multiple instruments well, compose memorable songs, and sing them brilliantly: rare but not impossible.

Example: Prince in the 1980's, circa the "Dirty Mind" album.

2008-11-21 12:12:32
78.   dzzrtRatt
Thanks everybody.

Now I need to pay for it. I like the idea of him becoming "independently wealthy." That's what I like about Berklee. From all their literature, you get the feeling they are bullish on music as a career.

He's written a musical that he's gotten the head of the LA Festival of Musicals interested in. I hear it and try not to be "Dad," so I can be objective, and it sounds brilliant to me, so who knows? He's certainly more dedicated to writing music than he ever was to school.

2008-11-21 12:13:38
79.   Bill Crain
If you want to opine that they're all generally slimy or that the NCAA is even slimier or that the systemic incentives demand an excess of sliminess, I'd be very untense about that sentiment.
2008-11-21 12:14:11
80.   regfairfield
I think I'm one of the few people that loves The New Pornographers and hates Neko Case's solo stuff.
2008-11-21 12:16:45
81.   Jacob Burch
80 The Obelisk starts with Reg! Unheard of!

Actually, it's pretty fair if you just don't get anything with a country vibe or just prefer pop. But it's still darnable!

I'm going to go put Blacklisted on now just in spite.

2008-11-21 12:18:08
82.   dzzrtRatt
80 I like Neko's solo stuff, but she could stand to be a bit more exuberant. Her first album is more straight-ahead country rock and I find myself listening to it more than to the more advanced but kind of stilted stuff from her last two records.
2008-11-21 12:18:13
83.   ToyCannon
That would be my sentiment. Only Mark Few is pure.
2008-11-21 12:18:45
84.   cargill06
57 Um, ok.
2008-11-21 12:20:58
85.   Hollywood Joe

I know and I dont oppose ads as a revenue stream (though I will weep like a small child if we ever lose the "Dodger Stadium" moniker)

My sadness was more related to the part that I didn't want to get into. Really about the mallification of America and the reduction (death?) of regionalism

There used to be a time when ballpark ads had a specific local flavor, McD and its ilk represent all the local things lost, sold for a dream of scalable profits, which has delivered those dollars for it's shareholders but has also brought us a nightmare of bland sameness.

If this street looks like that street, then where the hell am I?

I lived in North Carolina for a number of years and loved the local-ness of minor league food and ads. Pulled Pork BBQ is not my thing, but it was when I spent summer nights watching Aubrey Huff crush AAA pitching

Where have you gone Abe Stark? I know all the reasons why he is gone, and dont expect him to be back this way again, but I do allow myself to miss him time and again and to feel just a little bit sad

2008-11-21 12:21:59
86.   regfairfield
81 Basically. They're two entirely different styles of music, I don't get how there's so much crossover appeal.
2008-11-21 12:22:05
87.   Jacob Burch
82 Tigers Have Spoken and Blacklisted are tops for me, but I still really like Fox Confessor. She's also very wonderful live.
2008-11-21 12:22:23
88.   JoeyP
There is absolutely no indication that the Dodgers lost money last year.

I doubt McCourt would publicize it if they did.

2008-11-21 12:22:48
89.   Strike4
Fantastic news! With your gene for observation and expression he'll develop into a very special talent.
2008-11-21 12:23:48
90.   Jim Hitchcock
65 Cool! I wish Zappa was still around...maybe to do a take on Steely Dan. He did really well with Whipping Post.
2008-11-21 12:24:54
91.   Jacob Burch
86 Still, I question anyone who can listen to some of the songs--Deep Red Bells, for instance--and not fall in love.

Next you'll be telling me RBIs aren't all that in player evaluation, and that's just loony!

2008-11-21 12:29:05
92.   blue22
Dave Grohl wrote all the songs and played all the instruments on the Foo Fighters debut album, which I really really like.

That's really all I have to add to this conversation.

2008-11-21 12:30:12
93.   underdog
Not that it matters, but I will go on record as loving Mountain Goats. (I used to say "The Mountain Goats," but that sounds weird when you realize it's one guy.) I constantly play The Sunset Tree but like a lot of the older stuff too of course. Saw him live a couple of times and it ended way too soon for my taste.

Oh, speaking of Magnetic Fields, curious, Jon did you get a chance to check 'em out?

2008-11-21 12:32:22
94.   Jacob Burch
Magnetic Fields are not the first of my favorite bands (and they are in the top 10) I'd recommend to friends. They take some getting used to for sure--about on par with Mountain Goat lofi.
2008-11-21 12:32:37
95.   Jon Weisman
93 - Not yet. Could take a few years :)

88 - Okay, try this. Is it logical to think that the Manny Dredlock NLCS Dodgers lost money last year?

2008-11-21 12:32:38
96.   Tripon
88 McCourt would if it meant he could justify slashing the budget for one year.

Donald Sterling turned the Clippers into a money making machine despite the half empty stadiums they used to play for most of their history. I don't think the Dodgers pay into revenue sharing as it is, just imagine if they're suddenly receiving millions because they're suddenly a 'small market' team. At least for one year.

Hmm, can McCourt actually do this?

2008-11-21 12:44:17
97.   bablue
I agree with Jon, I think we'll still shell out to pay the big FA's. I think we'll get one of Manny/CC and if not them overpay for some of the lower tier guys, Sheets/Perez and Ibanez/Furcal. I just don't see how payroll could be lower than 100-110M when teams like the Brewers and Astros are going to be in the 90-100M range. According to ESPN we had the third highest attendence in baseball, and way higher than both of those teams. We should be able to keep payroll at the same level, or at least near it.

And lastly, even if the economy will lower payrolls, it should lower them across baseball, not just to us. So who is gonna bid more than 3 years on Manny for example? I just don't see a team interested and with the money to do it. I think if anything it will be us bidding against ourselves for a 4 year deal. All of the other big-market teams either aren't interested or have other priorities. That's my take.

2008-11-21 12:56:13
98.   MollyKnight
I still think we are getting CC. I'm calling a Thanksgiving miracle!
2008-11-21 12:58:10
99.   oshea2002
Back to some earlier posts - I'm a lifelong Trojan, and I'll admit Floyd is slimy, my bruin friends admit Rick is slimy. There are tons of things Floyd does, all technically within the rules, that I completely disagree with. I don't think any objective Trojan can agree with allowing Guillory around the program after the Trepagnier debacle, the way scholarships are handled, kids pushed out, offers revoked, etc, don't reflect well on the university.
2008-11-21 13:00:42
100.   oshea2002
97 - I'm almost more worried about the "lower tier overpay" scenario you mention. You're almost sure to overpay for Manny or CC, but I think you're guaranteed, barring injury, a lot of production as well. Those guys are real difference makers. It's the middling deals, ala Schmidt's and Pierre's that I would worry about.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-21 13:03:53
101.   trainwreck
I sure hope no one tells me to not rip on John Calipari.
2008-11-21 13:08:05
102.   ToyCannon
No, but is it logical to sell one of your top prospects to cut costs when you are one of the big market teams in baseball? Who was the last big market team who sold a prospect(about 2 million worth) to offset the cost of the salary coming back? All summer long we heard about McCourt complaining about sales. Why would he complain unless something wasn't adding up, he sure wouldn't be complaining if cash flow was solid. All season ticket money is in the hooch by Feb 1st so if they did something stupid with the money, it is gone except for daily sales. It would be naive to think the Dodgers did not invest that money. Exactly how is anyone's investments doing these days, especially if they tried the trickier higher paying investments that have taken the biggest hits of all.

Everything may be just fine, I just won't believe it until I see it.

2008-11-21 13:09:47
103.   Dark Horse
100 - As I've said before, that's my concern as well. If we don't get Ramirez or CC (or perhaps Burrell, Dunn, or Sheets) we'll do what, exactly? Experience suggests Ned will gladly part with draft picks in order to sign players along the lines of Orlando Cabrera. That's what frightens me: giving up not just money but draft picks for junk.
2008-11-21 13:11:34
104.   trainwreck
I am expecting to see Orlando Cabrera on this team next year.
2008-11-21 13:12:50
105.   trainwreck
Why is Twilight so popular? The stories seem so basic.
2008-11-21 13:14:24
106.   Tripon
105 preteen girls love emo goth handsome men.

Actually, I don't really know, Twilight has trainwreck written all over it. Pun intended. :)

2008-11-21 13:15:05
107.   D4P
Ned loves him some weak-hitting Lation shortstops.

I think he got that from Sabean.

2008-11-21 13:21:08
108.   Tripon
104 107 I could argue that we have our very old Latin shortstop we could promote and he might turn into a decent hitting shortstop or at worst the weak hitting shortstop that Ned loves.

His name is Chin Lung Hu, and all we have to do is buy him a Panamanian citizenship.

Oh, wait did you think I meant Ivan DeJesus Jr.? :)

2008-11-21 13:21:43
109.   LogikReader
Ok here comes a desperation shot at the buzzer:

Anybody here who has an extra ticket to tonight's Gachos/Tar Heels game? I am not a student so I can't use a Student ticket, but if you have a GA ticket burning a hole in yer pocket, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.

2008-11-21 13:22:09
110.   Ken Noe
What GM in the last season of his unextended contract cares about draft picks or promising farm hands? Ned's only goal is to put together a team that wins for a season whatever the long-term cost. If he thinks that means Cabrera or Crede, that's what it will be. Like Toy Cannon, I'm also not convinced the big money is there, although I hope to be proven wrong by a CC signing.
2008-11-21 13:22:45
111.   natepurcell
What does anyone think of the new Kanye album?
2008-11-21 13:26:08
112.   Tripon
110 So you're arguing that Ned is going back to the one thing that got him in trouble in the first place?

Ned knows that McCourt isn't likely going to accept long term deals for any FA unless he could sell it to McCourt that it makes sense financially. I doubt McCourt would allow any more of his dollars spent on a Crede, or Hampton unless needed.

2008-11-21 13:27:22
113.   underdog
Giants are also said to be very interested in Orlando Hudson, so maybe they'll sign him to a 6 year deal instead and everyone can rest easy. (Not that I'd be fully averse to bringing him in for 1-2 years but of course that isn't possible.)

109 There's always ESPNU. Which I don't get, so I'm even more outta luck.

2008-11-21 13:29:53
114.   mintxcore
111 kanye's new album is like 90% vocoder and 10% music. haha
2008-11-21 13:34:54
115.   trojanmansaki

Its a good change from what he did in the past and what is currently out there. I just dont like the version of "Robocop" that he selected for the final cut.

2008-11-21 13:35:36
116.   LogikReader

And Woodstocks! I thought about watching at least the first half there. Its almost the same atmosphere, plus you get pizza!

2008-11-21 13:35:59
117.   Jacob Burch
111 I can't find a good cut of it, so I'm just going to buy it next time at Amoeba. Not super high expectations for the outlier project, but should be fun enough for a purchase.
2008-11-21 13:36:28
118.   ToyCannon
I don't think Ned has any autonomy and hasn't since June of 2008.
2008-11-21 13:37:21
119.   D4P
I don't think Ned has any autonomy and hasn't since June of 2008

If that's true, do we even need a GM...?

2008-11-21 13:38:27
120.   ToyCannon
During quite a bit of Sabean/Ned reign, Rich Aurila was neither a Dominican nor a weak hitter for a SS.
2008-11-21 13:38:49
121.   Tripon
119 Appearances must be kept. That, and McCourt doesn't want to take on another sunk cost, I would assume.
2008-11-21 13:39:20
122.   ToyCannon
Of course, just because you don't have the final say doesn't mean you aren't doing all the heavy lifting while waiting for the final approval.
2008-11-21 13:39:53
123.   trainwreck
Or you could re-create the game yourself. Just get a group of adults to play some 5 year olds and it ought to be similar.
2008-11-21 13:41:41
124.   D4P
During quite a bit of Sabean/Ned reign, Rich Aurila was neither a Dominican nor a weak hitter for a SS

I think they were fooled by "Aurilia".

2008-11-21 13:49:02
125.   El Lay Dave
124 Rich should name a son after a former Angels 3B. Aurelio Aurilia.
2008-11-21 13:53:29
126.   Eric Stephen
I went to Homecoming with a girl named Aurelia. Her brother was named Aurelio. Not a ton of naming creativity in that family.
2008-11-21 13:55:17
127.   Jacob Burch
126 George Foreman agrees with this philosophy.
2008-11-21 13:57:56
128.   LogikReader


2008-11-21 13:57:56
129.   El Lay Dave
65 Congratulations to your son and you - that is impressive.
2008-11-21 14:02:17
130.   Tripon
According to the L.A. Times, Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins have been traded to the Clippers for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley.
This comes within one minute of us posting a Newsday story saying Randolph would not be traded today. This is the same deal originally rumored to be taking place earlier on Friday and the L.A. Times column is the only source we've seen stating that the deal is back on. While the reporter makes it sound like a done deal, we'll feel better when it's verified by a second source.

2008-11-21 14:02:25
131.   Eric Stephen
My homecoming date knew nothing of tilted grilling. She did have one hell of a right cross though.
2008-11-21 14:02:54
132.   ToyCannon
Knicks really clearing space now. Tim Thomas and Mobley for Randolf. Thomas and Mobley's contracts expire in 2010, just in time for Mr. James.
Clipper frontcourt gets crowded with Kaman, Camby, and Randolf. Of course this takes the Clippers out of the 2010 FA bonanza, but the reality is that none of the big names were going to sign with us anyway.
2008-11-21 14:10:04
133.   Eric Stephen
If by some chance all 3 are healthy, would the Clips play Kaman, Camby & Randolph on the floor at the same time? That would be something to see.
2008-11-21 14:12:39
134.   natepurcell

Randolph's having a really good year so far. I still don't understand how he can get so many rebounds when

1. He's fat
2. He is undersized (height) for a pf)
3. He can't jump

2008-11-21 14:13:37
135.   D4P
I saw Zach Randolph at the Portland Airport once. He was getting into a really fancy, metallic green vintage car, from the 50s or something.
2008-11-21 14:13:43
136.   mwhite06
132 Crowded yes. But the Clippers just added Randolph who is better than both Kaman and Camby in my opinion. I'm suprised the Knicks were so interested in dumping Randolph, he seemed to be a perfect fit with Dantoni and was putting up like 25 and 15 a night.
2008-11-21 14:16:11
137.   D4P
I always thought the Lakers could use a guy like Camby.
2008-11-21 14:18:16
138.   Eric Stephen
Bynum is filling that role right now, and it has transformed their defense to stratospheric heights, at least thus far.
2008-11-21 14:20:00
139.   D4P
Their defense has been looking more terrestrial as of late.
2008-11-21 14:20:35
140.   Jon Weisman
"Dodger Hall of Fame broadcaster Vin Scully received the Art Gilmore Career Achievement Award at the Sportsmen's Lodge in North Hollywood this afternoon."

And now you don't know the rest of the story ...

2008-11-21 14:22:23
141.   Eric Stephen
Why is there an achievement award named for an ex-NBA/ABA center?
2008-11-21 14:22:34
142.   ToyCannon
Cap room for 2010. By the time they can afford James will they have a team worthwhile for him to play with?

As I recall Randolf gets those boards because of his huge hands. That is what helped EB all these years. So many bigs can't handle the boards because they can't handle the ball. I'd be willing to bet anytime you see an undersized big outrebounding his peers, his hands are larger then the normal player.

2008-11-21 14:24:03
143.   Kevin Lewis
I am still confused by the reference in 31

I would argue (not passionately) that Dave Grohl is a gifted musician that can play the drums, guitar, piano, and bass pretty well.

2008-11-21 14:24:57
144.   bhsportsguy
141 Sidney Wicks could take him.

140 He has something in common with Edward R. Murrow and Keith Jackson (not the former Oklahoma Sooner tight end, the football play-by-play guy).

2008-11-21 14:25:55
145.   ToyCannon
Our offense will go up but our defense will go down. Randolf has something like 3 blocks all year. Camby can get that in a game where he only plays 30 minutes.
Besides how you play those three bigs, who plays at SG until the next deal. They aren't trading for Randolf to fold the tent this year so they wont' be giving the job to Eric Gordon and Ricky Davis is shooting 29% this year. Other then one game against the Kings he has been awful.
2008-11-21 14:30:49
146.   Jon Weisman
"Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters was founded in 1966 by announcer Art Gilmore and a group of 178 original members. Jeanne DeVivier Brown is the current Chairman of the Board and the membership stands at 550."

"Unchanged from its original concept, PPB hosts five celebrity luncheons a year at the historic Sportsmen's Lodge, where men and women with at least 20 years of professional employment in Radio and Television Broadcasting or allied fields join together to renew old friendships, meet new members, and honor fellow pioneer broadcasters for their achievements."

2008-11-21 14:43:28
147.   Zak
140 I thought the Sportsmen Lodge had closed? Is that at a future date?
2008-11-21 14:44:01
148.   regfairfield
Thought this was interesting. Ryan Zimmerman on protection:

Um, you know, I don't really buy into that. I used to buy into that a lot, but I mean, you're always gonna get a certain number of pitches to hit or not hit no matter who's hitting behind you. What it really comes down to is whether you hit the pitches you have. Does it help to have legit guy behind you? Maybe a little bit. But I think through the course of the season it doesn't really influence the way guys pitch you. I think it's one of those things that gets way too much hype. If you were to take a guy who's hit No. 8 his whole life and then put him in front of Alex Rodriguez, is his average gonna jump 40 points? I don't think so. He's still the same player. I think the bigger factor is more the guys in front of you, because you want to drive in runs, and having guys on base, guys who can get on base and put pressure on a pitcher, that makes a bigger difference.

2008-11-21 14:46:08
149.   Jon Weisman
147 - Apparently not.

I still remember driving through the floods of February 1978 to get to my cousin's bar mitzvah party there.

2008-11-21 14:48:18
150.   cargill06
Completely off topic but how does Cedric Benson, Dennis Dixon, etc., sign a professional contract accept money, have an agent (I assume he did), play professional baseball than play college football after that? It just seems like it could be used as a loophole to give players gifts.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-21 14:48:27
151.   Zak
149 I've been there for many different occasions like weddings and Lion's Club meetings, but the memory that sticks out most vividly was when we ended up there on New Year's Eve and realized that we were the youngest couple there by at least 25 years.
2008-11-21 14:48:57
152.   ToyCannon
Still open, I'm going to a benefit a friend is playing at for Shambala sometime in December.
2008-11-21 14:54:53
153.   Eric Stephen
I could see a conflict of interest if Frank McCourt paid a large draft bonus to a star football player from Georgetown (McCourt's alma mater) or something like that.

I've stopped trying to figure out the logic of some NCAA statutes.

2008-11-21 14:56:34
154.   Xeifrank
Looks like next week has the potential to be pretty wet.
vr, Xei
2008-11-21 14:57:51
155.   cargill06
154 Sweet, Thanksgiving day football in the mud.
2008-11-21 14:59:33
156.   Kevin Lewis
That will not stop me from using the BBQ for the turkey.
2008-11-21 15:00:05
157.   Bill Crain
It was in the previous thread.

Water under the bridge.

2008-11-21 15:08:30
158.   ToyCannon
Could raise havoc however for those of us planning on deep frying our Turkeys. Water and boiling peanut oil is rarely a good mix, but it would put on a good show.
2008-11-21 15:10:17
159.   ToyCannon
We used to having Thanksgiving day football. We did do it once in the mud and then had the after party at a friends house who was out of town. They were not happy when they came home.
2008-11-21 15:11:00
160.   Jacob Burch
155 I have been told this year's game for my group of friends may be touch. This angers me to no end. I can't catch or throw the ball and I'm really not that fast. My one admirable athletic quality is the subconscious ability to know how to stand up under fire and bring other people down. I'm nearly useless in flag or touch football.

This depressed me to no end. Thanksgiving is the one week of the year where I actually get to look like I know what I'm doing.

I have to get Bluebleeder to teach me how to throw a wiffleball, I guess.

2008-11-21 15:14:13
161.   cargill06
I don't know much about basketball, but isn't Zach Randolph very overpaid and extremely overrated? I saw in an ESPN magazine that the "stat geeks" said he was the worst defensive player in the NBA.
2008-11-21 15:16:57
162.   Kevin Lewis
Any one have a great brunch/lunch place near downtown?
2008-11-21 15:18:06
163.   Kevin Lewis

What in the world? I was the winning pitcher!

2008-11-21 15:23:59
164.   Eric Stephen
My one admirable athletic quality is the subconscious ability to know how to stand up under fire and bring other people down

I share this trait as well. Playing "Smear the [Rules 1 & 2 violation]" was always fun for me.

2008-11-21 15:24:28
165.   Jacob Burch
163 Did you see TC against Bleeder? Or for that matter, the offense behind Bleeder? We were worse than the Giants.

You're just lucky Karim Garcia caught three miracle outs in the first!

162 Prepare for the onslaught of Phillipe's!

It depends how near you want to go: I love going to Weiland Brewery for a lunch beer, or if you can go a little further north, Millie's in Silverlake is an absolute favorite for brunch/breakfast.

2008-11-21 15:24:47
166.   Jon Weisman
2008-11-21 15:25:23
167.   cargill06
I share this trait as well. Playing "Smear the [Rules 1 & 2 violation]" was always fun for me.

Um, is there something I don't know about one of our commenters?

2008-11-21 15:28:32
168.   Humma Kavula
On the other hand, flag football was my one opportunity to shine.

I'm a tiny man. I'm about 5'5" and 130. I also have no athletic ability whatsoever. What I have is a great ability to deceive, especially over short distances, due to one reason:

No one on the opposing team can ever believe that I would get the ball on purpose.

So if you've got fourth-and-short, give it to me. By the time the other team realizes I have the ball, it's first-and-ten.

2008-11-21 15:50:13
169.   ishXdavid
In light of the music discussion, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention a local LA band fronted by an incredible lady... Monsters Are Waiting. They give an incredible live performance. As for their sound, think Yeah Yeah Yeahs meets Rilo Kiley.

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