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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Dodger Life
2008-11-24 17:16
by Jon Weisman

Since I didn't have time to do a full post today, allow yourself to browse through the newly posted Life photo archive - subject: Dodgers.


This photograph of Roy Campanella was taken by Robert W. Kelley in March 1959.

Comments (166)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-24 17:29:57
1.   Marty
That is an amazing picture. His facial expression is not something I would expect.
2008-11-24 17:30:54
2.   underdog
That picture is incredible. Wow.
2008-11-24 17:31:09
3.   Tripon
6:20pm: Impacto Deportivo says the surprise team is the Braves, possibly offering four years and $52MM. It'd be wise to treat the report with caution until it is confirmed by another source.

I seriously doubt this.

2008-11-24 17:31:57
4.   D4P
Nice pants.
2008-11-24 17:34:21
5.   Joe Pierre
2008-11-24 17:34:36
6.   Marty
Today's IQ test is much easier.
2008-11-24 17:35:56
7.   Joe Pierre
Actually there are 26 triangles if you count the one they all are in.
2008-11-24 17:36:55
8.   regfairfield
I count 46.
2008-11-24 17:38:24
9.   regfairfield
And now I have 48.
2008-11-24 17:38:28
10.   Marty
It was not the triangle one a minute ago.
2008-11-24 17:46:56
11.   Bob Hendley
Hoped to see the photos that the nuns put on the classroom walls in Sept 63. They were in color as I recall; these all seem to be B&W (except for the draft dodgers).
2008-11-24 17:50:07
12.   old dodger fan
Several of the photos were labeled, "Dodgers Music Depreciation".

Is there a story behind that?

2008-11-24 17:52:28
13.   old dodger fan
Thanks Google

Aug. 13, 1951: The Dodgers held "Music Depreciation Night" at Ebbets Field. Every fan with a musical instrument was admitted free. Nearly 2,000 fans took advantage of the opportunity, including one who came with a piano

2008-11-24 17:52:50
14.   El Lay Dave
0 This would be 13-14 months after the accident. Quite a photo.
2008-11-24 18:11:08
15.   68elcamino427
Ahh! The fire and determination in those eyes. The heart of a true champion. He refuses to submit.
A model of courage.
2008-11-24 18:24:16
16.   MollyKnight
I can't make another post on this site until I am sure everyone here is aware of
2008-11-24 18:28:15
17.   DBrim
My Northeastern Huskies are up to 4th in men's Hockey. Let's hope we don't blow it this year.
2008-11-24 18:31:55
18.   Ken Noe
Wow. That was a heckuva man there.
2008-11-24 18:37:36
19.   scareduck
Jackie Robinson and King Feisal of Iraq:

2008-11-24 18:38:19
20.   trainwreck
I used to be good at knowing useless trivia, but I am not doing well with these quizzes.
2008-11-24 18:38:31
21.   scareduck
You know, he looks a bit like Derek Jeter in that picture.
2008-11-24 18:49:06
22.   dzzrtRatt
He was so depressed. At least that's how he was depicted in "Boys of Summer." What happened to Campanella is intensely sad to me.

The Dodgers' apparent passivity on Furcal and Sabathia is sure looking like a clue that Frank ain't got the scratch. Seems like he wants a $70 million team this year and is feeling hamstrung by the Jones/Schmidt/Pierre costs. The only FA he seems to really want is Manny because of his box-office appeal. And even there, he seems pretty meh about it. He's hoping the other owners are feeling as broke as he is, so he'll take Manny if he can be a last resort for him.

Thus, I think Dodger fans' focus perhaps should be on organizational depth and the potential for the Jacksonville gang to blossom in 2009. There won't be any deus ex machina.

2008-11-24 18:51:28
23.   Ranma
From's Jon Heyman's FanNation blog:

...Towers now thinks the Braves' unwillingness to change Peavy's contract to extend his no-trade provision beyond 2010 would have scuttled the deal, anyway.

Towers hasn't talked to the Braves in two weeks. And he hasn't talked lately to the third team said to be in the mix, the Dodgers, either...

"I'm not opposed to trading within the division,'' Towers said. But he speculated that that the Dodgers had too much going on right now to conceive of putting it all aside to make a monster trade like this. The Dodgers have two infield openings, they have the Manny free agent situation, they have the CC Sabathia question, and now they have two possible openings in the rotation after top young starter Chad Billlingsley broke his leg on a patch of ice in Pennsylvania.

Towers could see restarting talks with the Dodgers. Not now, but much later.

Nice bit of backtracking and damage control by the Padres GM.

2008-11-24 18:56:30
24.   Joe Pierre
Too manny nameless pictures of Gil Hodges, no wonder he's got trouble getting into the HOF. Also Preacher Roe.
Why are Branch Rickey and Walter O'Malley refered to as managers?
That picture was not taken at Ebbets Field of Joe DiMaggio swinging.
Great shots of Ebbets Field during Music depreciation night.
Overall, Many pictures I've never seen.
2008-11-24 18:56:57
25.   MollyKnight
20: My favorite is countries of Asia. Also, Rolling Stone's Top 100 songs of all-time.

Also, the presidents of the USA! I always miss one!

2008-11-24 18:57:36
26.   MollyKnight
Oh, look! The latest sporcle:

Can you name all the players in the 30/30 club.

2008-11-24 19:01:48
27.   trainwreck
I totally own the corporate logos. Way to go, society.
2008-11-24 19:04:35
28.   trainwreck
Spelling dooms me on the times. I always have to look things up. And one test had a player's name spelled wrong.
2008-11-24 19:09:52
29.   popup
I spotted only one Life cover among all those pictures. I know there were at least a couple more. I have one with Don Drysdale from 1962 and another one with Sandy in the mid-60's. Jackie was on the cover of Life in 1950 when the movie, The Jackie Robinson Story, was released. Seems to me Maury Wills was on the cover of Life too.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-11-24 19:14:54
30.   bhsportsguy
26 I couldn't come close, heck I was blanking out Maude Flanders for a while on the Simpsons quiz.
2008-11-24 19:16:50
31.   bhsportsguy
22 I don't know, I mean I think the issue with Furcal has been years of the contract, he is still set on 4 years and I don't believe anyone here wants him for that long.

The CC deal is in limbo since no one is going to top the Yankees, so I think teams will wait and see if he takes it.

2008-11-24 19:24:14
32.   68elcamino427
How does the apparent passivity of the Dodgers compare to the apparent passivity or lack thereof to the other MLB clubs?

The whole of the "Hot Stove" seems pretty cold right now. What's the big splash other than the Yanks with CC?

Aren't there some big MLB meetings scheduled to take place soon where the GM's all get together and trades happen?

Does it appear that Boras' tactics have become too predictable? So many former "chasers" are instead now watching and waiting.

What's happening to the National and Global economies is unprecedented in my lifetime - circa 1952

2008-11-24 19:33:19
33.   Tripon
I'm checking the 2005 NBA draft on wikipedia. Just how in the heck did Chris Paul fall to 4th behind Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams, both who needed PGs(The Hawks much more than the Bucks.)

2008-11-24 19:37:14
34.   trainwreck
Marvin Williams was supposed to be really good, but that has not come to fruition. Plus, the Hawks are stupid.

Bogut is a center and he has good skills for the position, so those types of players always get drafted high. Plus, the Bucks had TJ Ford back then.

2008-11-24 19:39:38
35.   das411
Tsk tsk, we had 500 comments in the broken leg thread and not ONE mention of Steve Yzerman, who iirc won the Stanley Cup while playing on a broken leg??

32 , but wasn't there a minor recession the year after AROD signed his first huge contract also?

2008-11-24 19:40:45
36.   Tripon
34 A classic case of overrating centers and underrating Point Guards then

And T.J. Ford shouldn't block anybody, much less Chris Paul.

2008-11-24 19:41:15
37.   Bob Timmermann
My life has been ruined.
2008-11-24 19:43:08
38.   trainwreck
It would take you forever to go over all the bad draft decisions teams have made.
2008-11-24 19:43:29
39.   Tripon
Oh wow, this is also the draft that Andrew Bynum was picked. Redoing this one, you could have went

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Andrew Bynum

2008-11-24 19:43:37
40.   Kevin Lewis

I am scared to look at any more beyond the Simpsons quiz.

2008-11-24 19:49:27
41.   trainwreck
Granger, Monta Ellis, Brandon Bass, David Lee, Ryan Gomes, Louis Williams, Turiaf, and Amir Johnson would all go a lot higher in the draft too.
2008-11-24 19:57:24
42.   Gen3Blue
I'm afraid the national and global economy's problems may directly effect baseball and baseball contracts. It's obvious that "globalization" means spreading 300 million American's wealth among several billion people and this will eventually get down to ball players contracts. If it begins this year is hard to say.
2008-11-24 20:04:59
43.   underdog
Live from historic Memorial Gym in SF, where UCSB looks about 20 pts better and deeper than USF, but is only up by 3 at half. The pa announcer here declared the gaucho from Alaska to be from Arkansas instead, and he rolled his eyes at the intro
2008-11-24 20:10:20
44.   Gen3Blue
16 I'm aware. But after a meeting of my trivia game club, I am too fatigued in the brain's trivia center to to take any action.
2008-11-24 20:17:49
45.   El Lay Dave
The Looney Tunes quiz is surprising difficult for me. Way to go Molly; I foresee millions in productivity going down the drain!
2008-11-24 20:28:30
46.   trainwreck
The Washington Huskies cannot shoot.
2008-11-24 20:35:49
47.   Tripon

Shields wants to be the Angels closer if/when K-Rod leaves.

2008-11-24 20:41:21
48.   Snowdog
OK, the triangle thing, I see:

1 piece: 25 total
4 piece: 10 total
9 piece: 6 total
16 piece: 3 total
25 piece: 1 total

45 total. Where are the other three?

2008-11-24 20:45:54
49.   El Lay Dave
48 I think your 4-piece total is short.
2008-11-24 20:50:30
50.   Marty
Re-looking at the photo, I see a guy who thinks he can beat the paralysis. It's just an astounding shot.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-24 20:57:16
51.   fordprefect
Wow! If Looney tunes characters and album cover ID quizzes are any indication, I'm golden!
2008-11-24 21:00:40
52.   MollyKnight
37, 40, and EVERYONE ELSE: resistance is futile. I just did "Countries of the World" and got 139, including Timor-Leste. But I'm tabula rasa when it comes to Oceania.
2008-11-24 21:10:03
53.   Gagne55
48 3 four piece ones are upside down.
2008-11-24 21:32:16
54.   68elcamino427
Hope that this is a "minor recession".
We'll see.
2008-11-24 21:36:28
55.   Eric Stephen
Molly, that site is eithr the greatest thing ever or the worst. It's going to take a long time to find out.
2008-11-24 21:42:39
56.   Tripon
Why are the Clippers trying to trade its best big man in Chris Kamen?

Mike Dunleavy makes a horrible GM.

2008-11-24 21:43:51
57.   El Lay Dave
Man, Clint Eastwood made a number of movies whose titles I simply cannot remember.
2008-11-24 21:45:58
58.   El Lay Dave ?? squee!
2008-11-24 21:54:18
59.   das411 Lineup for the Cleveland Indians, Game 3 1995 World Series:

Kenny Lofton cf
Omar Vizquel ss
Carlos Baerga 2b
Albert Belle lf
Eddie Murray dh
JIM Thome 3b
Manny Ramirez rf
Paul Sorrento 1b
Sandy Alomar c

so that lineup has one current Hall of Famer, two pretty much guaranteed locks, three more with very very strong did they ever lose any games??

2008-11-24 22:09:30
60.   Greg Brock
Photographs are such an amazing and underrated aspect of history. I just did a gigantic Mathew Brady lesson with my kids, and they loved it.

Thanks for the link, Jon.

So, um, are we gonna sign CC? No? Okay.

2008-11-24 22:12:55
61.   JoeyP
I totally forgot Jim Thome played 3rd base. He does throw right handed, so it makes sense.

What was the reason for Albert Belle retiring so early in his career? There's an argument to be made that he was the best hitter of the 90s.

2008-11-24 22:14:46
62.   fanerman
The Pirates have signed the 2 Indian pitchers from USC:

2008-11-24 22:16:42
63.   Eric Stephen
Belle had a bum hip.
2008-11-24 22:19:53
64.   El Lay Dave
The easiest one for this crowd:
2008-11-24 22:22:58
65.   El Lay Dave
59 Their starting pitchers in the World Series were Orel (old), Dennis Martinez (older), Charles Nagy (average) and Ken Hill (meh). Lack of secret sauce.
2008-11-24 22:49:49
66.   Bob Timmermann
And I only came up with 10 of the 11 countries that border at least 8 other countries.


2008-11-24 22:51:10
67.   bhsportsguy
52 I could name all the super bowl winners and world series winners, nba got all but three.

Was bummed that I did not get all the 500 winners and 3000 strikeout pitchers. BTW, the NBA team question is not current (that is my hint).

PS - I can's spell Yaz's name if my life depended on it.

2008-11-24 22:56:20
68.   trainwreck
Actually not from USC, they just did their showcase there.
2008-11-24 23:02:49
69.   Dodgers49
T.J. Simers:

Dodgers are perfecting the art of raking in cash

2008-11-24 23:07:32
70.   bhsportsguy
59 Also on that team, Dave Winfield. Without looking, I would say that would be the only team to have 4 players on it who had 500 or more career homeruns.

Just looking at talent produced by their system from 1994-2001, Thome, Ramirez, Belle, Baerga, Giles, Sandy Alomar, Vizquel, Colon and Sabathia, is as impressive a run as you will ever find in the last 25-30 years. Thome, Manny and CC came on pretty young, the others hit their stride a little later. They would acquire Lofton, Juan Gonzalez, Matt Williams and Roberto Alomar to compliment their home grown talent.

Those Indian teams had two things going against them, the Yankees and not quite enough starting pitching. But just looking at the offensive talent, no question, the Indians were about as good a collection of players that I have seen in the last 30 years.

2008-11-24 23:12:02
71.   Dodgers49
Rafael Furcal's return to Dodgers is in doubt

>> Whether or not Furcal signs elsewhere, the Dodgers' top in-house candidate to replace him could be Angel Berroa, a capable fielder who batted only .230.

Berroa, who was acquired in a trade with the Kansas City Royals and started for most of the time when Furcal was out, had his $5.5-million option for next season declined. Because Berroa hasn't accrued enough major league service time to become a free agent, he remains under the Dodgers' control. The last day to tender contracts to such players is Dec. 12, and if the Dodgers don't re-sign him by then, they'll probably let him go because the collective bargaining agreement forbids clubs to re-sign or tender contracts to players that would cut their salaries from the previous season by more than 20%. Berroa earned $4.75 million in 2008, meaning the Dodgers would be forced to pay him at least $3.8 million if they tender him a contract. <<

## Colletti added that there has been "no real movement" in the Dodgers' pursuit of CC Sabathia, the prize of the free-agent market. ##

2008-11-24 23:13:37
72.   Harold M Johnson
I think a big chunk of owners are going to hunker down given the economic situation. McCourt definitely seems like a guy who'd like to ride that trend if possible. It doesn't look like anyone in the NL West is going to be ponying up major coin, so being "competitive" is possible going low-budget.
2008-11-24 23:18:40
73.   trainwreck
Let's hope that Justin Upton does not breakout next year then.
2008-11-24 23:48:57
74.   bhsportsguy
Last year, the only big free agent to sign before the last day for teams to offer arbitration to their former players was Hunter, a few guys signed extensions but that was pretty much it.

Once the smoke cleared and the other teams knew what the compensation was going to be, they began to deal.

So I would not expect much until after 9:00 p.m. (PST) next Monday night. And then really it might take until Sunday December 7th, (where have I heard that combination of words before), which is the last day for players to accept arbitration before anything begins to get done.

2008-11-24 23:50:37
75.   Tripon
71 Does Dylan Hernandez actually pay attention to the Dodgers farm system? I know Tony Jackson does since he writes progress reports for Baseball America on a freelance basis. But Hernadez has to know about Hu and DeJesus right? Or that the Dodgers aren't silly enough to pay Berroa $3.5 million to play below average at shortstop.
2008-11-24 23:52:22
76.   ToyCannon
Amazing photo, that is not the look of a man who will never walk again. One of the reasons I made sure to make the Coliseum game was to try to imagine what it was like on that night so many years ago when Los Angeles paid tribute to a man they never saw play.
2008-11-24 23:54:35
77.   Tripon
I GO away and Plaschke immediately makes the case again not to bring back Manny Ramirez, while suggesting the Dodgers trade for Jake Peavy, Adrian Beltre and "count on the kids."

Sounds like I'm not the only one in need of some time off. - Simers

Nice to see that somebody at the Times realize the inane comment Plaschke made.

2008-11-25 00:04:30
78.   scareduck
70 - Dave Winfield retired with 465 homers. Albert Belle retired with 361. Manny Ramirez has 527, Jim Thome has 541, and Eddie Murray had 504. The 1994, 1995, and 1996 teams all had players who would eventually hit 500 or more home runs. So far as I can ascertain, they were the only three teams in history to do so.
2008-11-25 00:52:26
79.   bablue

Couldn't disagree more. No one is doing anything on the Hot Stove right now. Just wait a while, there will be big signings for the Dodgers. Stupid signings, maybe, but they're gonna spend some serious coin.

Suggesting that a team with the third highest attendance in the MLB in the second biggest market and who was 3 wins away from the World Series is going to let a historically great FA class just walk by and enter the season with a 70M dollar payroll is absurd. Only 11 teams spent less than 70M last year. Even the Padres spent more than 70M.

2008-11-25 01:40:26
80.   Dodgers49
Angels' attention shifts from Mark Teixeira to CC Sabathia

>> The Angels, unwilling to meet Mark Teixeira's desire for a 10-year contract, are in discussions with CC Sabathia and could offer him a contract that approaches the $140-million bid extended to him by the New York Yankees. <<

## Scott Boras, the agent for Teixeira, represented Carlos Beltran four years ago and set the same asking price: 10 years for $200 million. Beltran did not sign with the Mets until January, for seven years and $119 million. By then, other top free agents had signed elsewhere. ##

2008-11-25 07:55:18
81.   kinbote
Presented without irony from

Rosenthal believes Trevor Hoffman to the Dodgers "makes sense."

And with that, I'm officially taking a break from hot-stoving. Jon was right.

2008-11-25 07:58:05
82.   MollyKnight
They add three to four new sporcles every day. After the initial spike in hours lost to the site it will even off.
2008-11-25 08:20:29
83.   Ken Noe
71 75 That may be Nedster telling various agents that the Dodgers aren't so desperate at short, so don't expect us to cave on four years. Or being Ned, it could be serious--I can't imagine him going with Hu/DeJesus in the spring. One of them will have to "win" the job.

I actually found this the most amazing part of the story: The Dodgers would like for Furcal to be their shortstop but are reluctant to even match the three-year, $39-million contract he completed this year. The club thought it overpaid for Furcal when it signed him three years ago -- and that was before he was injured. Isn't Neddy the guy who "overpaid?" More evidence that McCourt has taken the checkbook away?

2008-11-25 08:50:03
84.   mwhite06
83 More evidence that McCourt has taken the checkbook away?

Or its evidence that Ned has learned from his mistakes. What can I say, I'm an optimist.

2008-11-25 08:51:33
85.   fernst2937
(83) Nedso needs to be controlled after Schmidt, Pierre, and Jones. If it means taking away the checkbook, I am all for it.
2008-11-25 09:01:32
86.   Jon Weisman
83 - I think you're misinterpreting "overpaid." I think they knew at the time they overpaid him, but they just thought they had to in order to turn around the team following the 2005 season.

Though it's anyone's guess who the shortstop will be next year, I don't think they feel so desperate now to make a statement with Furcal.

2008-11-25 09:03:39
87.   cargill06
Drew Bress is probably going to break the record for most passing yards in a season. Lance Moore leads the team with 754 receiving yards, there is a real chance he could do this without a 1,000 yard receiver.
2008-11-25 09:04:45
88.   cargill06
87 Brees
2008-11-25 09:42:00
89.   Eric Stephen
Sean McAdam has an article about what is going wrong with the Padres, and has this surprising (at least to me) fact:

"Special assistant Paul DePodesta, the former Los Angeles Dodgers GM, reports not to Towers but directly to CEO Sandy Alderson and must sign off on player moves"

2008-11-25 09:44:06
90.   D4P
Depo was promoted from special assistant to executive vice president.

Whatever that means.

2008-11-25 09:45:01
91.   oshea2002
Once again, I have no problem letting Furcal walk, and I don't see any justification for 4 years, $52 million like they mentioned was thrown out there. I just sincerely hope that they don't turn around with 3 and $30-33 for Cabrera, b/c then at that point, what's the better deal? Agree with the poster yesterday, I think 2 and 18 for Renteria is better then 4 and something big for Furcal.
2008-11-25 09:55:58
92.   ToyCannon
I agree with that, it was Ned's first move and at the time I thought it was brilliant.

83 Remember Furcal was expected to sign with the Cubs and we kind of swooped in at the last minute and gave him more money but less years. It almost worked out. I still think it was a great contract. Ned has his faults but other then Pierre he has had the right plan with his more per year less number of years plan.

Kuroda has worked out so far. It is easy to keep pointing to the mistakes but unless you were calling those deals mistakes at the time it seems disingenuous to take Ned to task for signing Schmidt and Jones. D4P, Scareduck, and only a few others can stand on that pedestal. Juan Pierre is a different story entirely but how bad a report card is that based on when the contracts were signed not on how they have played out?

Trades are a different story and I don't think he's made a good trade since his 1st one. He lucked into Magic Marlon, no one expected that to happen. Releasing players with value also seems to be a problem.

2008-11-25 09:56:05
93.   Tripon
Isn't it implied that DePo is the next Padres GM?
2008-11-25 09:56:45
94.   underdog
81 "Rosenthal believes Trevor Hoffman to the Dodgers 'makes sense.'" Yeah, that one made me actually laugh out loud. Bless Rosenthal, who should give thanks this week for having a job despite rarely giving the appearance of qualifications for said job.
2008-11-25 10:02:16
95.   D4P
Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to recall Hoffman getting rocked by the Dodgers multiple times in recent years.

You'd think that would have made a bad impression on Dodger Management.

2008-11-25 10:02:43
96.   fanerman
95 I've had that impression, too.
2008-11-25 10:11:38
97.   MC Safety
Kudos to Al Thornton for ignoring Simers and his moronic questions. Can't believe Simers had the audacity to compare Al Thornton to Ryan Leaf.
2008-11-25 10:15:32
98.   Bob Timmermann
Hoffman didn't pitch much against the Dodgers in 08 because San Diego was so bad. He pitched in five games against the Dodgers, lost one and saved the other four. In 07, he pitched six times with one loss and five saves.
2008-11-25 10:22:23
99.   Kevin Lewis

4+1 comes to mind. What a game! And each one off Hoffman was on the first pitch

2008-11-25 10:25:11
100.   MC Safety
I wish Arte Moreno owned the Dodgers.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-25 10:27:16
101.   ToyCannon
Hoffman got hit early in the year, recovered and did his usual job. Hoffman would not be the worse scenario if Saito heads home. Broxton blows you away but Hoffman can still baffle you with bull manure.
His peripherals are still solid.
3 6 30 45.3 9 46 3.77 1.04 229 $19 $15
3.6 27 72 3.68 2.9 9.1 1.8 5.1 1.6 137
2008-11-25 10:28:14
102.   Eric Stephen
Yeah, but Hoffman "only" gave up the last half of the 4 straight dingers.
2008-11-25 10:32:26
103.   oshea2002
100 - I think we can all agree on that.
2008-11-25 10:36:14
104.   ToyCannon
Yup, I'd take their whole front office from Manager to Owner, let me keep Logan White for the draft and set him loose with a real international budget. The Mick would have to go. He's an old favorite of mine but a hitting coach he is not.
2008-11-25 10:39:16
105.   Kevin Lewis

That is what made it so sweet. We gave up the 3 runs in the 8th, so Hoffman didn't start the inning. When they did bring Hoffman in, I thought we were done, since he usually owns us. To see Martin crank it on the first pitch was the amping up for the most exciting sports moment I have seen in person.

I would be okay with Hoffman closing for us, if the price was reasonable.

2008-11-25 10:40:22
106.   Kevin Lewis
I think the Dodgers should either go with Broxton for the year and see what happens, or they should sell now while his value is high. (is it high?)
2008-11-25 10:40:57
107.   Eric Stephen
If Hoffman somehow did sign with the Dodgers, does Dodger Stadium start the top of the 9th with Hells Bells? That would be weird.
2008-11-25 10:41:51
108.   D4P
I would be okay with Hoffman closing for us, if the price was reasonable

Hoffman implicitly scoffed at $4 million/year.

Ergo, it seems safe to conclude that the price won't be reasonable.

2008-11-25 10:43:25
109.   Kevin Lewis

Then problem solved!

2008-11-25 10:44:01
110.   Kevin Lewis
I just like Hoffman's game routine, which includes a shower in the clubhouse around the 7th inning.
2008-11-25 10:44:16
111.   JoeyP
107 -If Hoffman did sign, would he be the closer or Broxton?
2008-11-25 10:49:17
112.   Eric Stephen
If the Dodgers do complete their set of Hoffman brothers, I would imagine Broxton would take a back seat to Mr. All-Time Saves Leader.
2008-11-25 10:51:55
113.   oshea2002
Signing Hoffman is completely pointless if you don't play the Bells. My dad was an SD season ticket holder and that's the only reason I'd go to their games against anyone else other then us. If he can't find work elsewhere, I'd even sign him for the minimum just for mop up duty - the crown would be rocking to Hells Bells with Hoffman coming in say down 8 or up 8 in the 9th.
2008-11-25 10:55:17
114.   MC Safety
107 I'm already this close to becoming an Angel fan. That would definitely be enough to put me over the edge.

Why can't Frank come out and be a player for the top class guys in the press like Arte?

(And please don't bring up the Trinity of Worthlessness, because those guys aren't close to top class players)

2008-11-25 11:04:47
115.   El Lay Dave
112 Probably better to complete the Hoffman brothers set than the Cabrera brothers set.

108 But the contract length might well be, could be one year.

2008-11-25 11:10:16
116.   D4P
But the contract length might well be, could be one year

Maybe so, but if we'd rather give away prospects than pay $2 million, I would assume that Management will think the $8 million or whatever it would cost to sign Hoffman would be better spent elsewise (or not at all).

2008-11-25 11:11:28
117.   MollyKnight
I really, really hope we're through giving millions of dollars to over the hill HOF'ers.
2008-11-25 11:13:36
118.   D4P
Oregon State coach Mike Riley says running back Jacquizz Rodgers is very doubtful for Saturday's Civil War game against Oregon.

Rodgers, who leads the Pac-10 Conference in rushing, injured his shoulder on Oregon State's second possession last Saturday against Arizona.

2008-11-25 11:15:41
119.   Tripon
From NPB Tracker: Kenshin Kawakami has switched to Dan Evans as his agent, while Koji Uehara wants a rotation spot and multiple years.

Dan Evans is moving up in the world! So does being an agent for mid-level talent pay more than a GM would?

2008-11-25 11:16:42
120.   blue22
Signing a "proven closer" like Hoffman allows Broxton to remain in a smokejumper role though. I almost prefer having a run-of-the-mill closer handle 9th inning duties, and keep the best arms available for higher leverage situations.

This all assumes Saito is gone too.

2008-11-25 11:18:55
121.   D4P
How would an unlikely 3-way tiebreaker in the Pac-10 between Oregon, Oregon State, and USC work out...?
2008-11-25 11:22:32
122.   Eric Stephen
1st tiebreaker is head-to-head amongst the 3. In this case, all 3 teams would be 1-1 against one another.

I believe it would fall to best record against the next-highest team in the conference (currently Cal). Cal beat Oregon, but lost to the other two, which would leave OSU and USC in a 2-team tie. OSU would win that.

2008-11-25 11:23:16
123.   oshea2002
121 - I'd guess either total wins or highest BCS rank, both of which are and would be USC, unless USC loses out.
2008-11-25 11:24:45
124.   D4P
Is the 2nd place team in the Pac-10 still guaranteed a particular bowl, assuming they're not in a BCS bowl?
2008-11-25 11:25:38
125.   mwhite06
121 I tried to read the scenario on the Pac 10 website the other day and got completely lost. I was hoping someone here is smarter than I and could decipher it. I thought the tie-breaker used to be the team with the longest Rose Bowl drought would go (which would be Oregon State) however back in 2001 a 3 team tie of Oregon, Oregon State, and UW all beat one another for the only conference loss, and somehow UW went to the Rose Bowl against Purdue. Oregon State went to the Fiesta Bowl and absoutely destroyed Notre Dame.
2008-11-25 11:25:39
126.   oshea2002
122 - I looked it up, you're right. Obviously if it gets to that point, we'll have other problems then worrying about tie-breakers, namely losing to one of the worst ucla teams I've ever seen.
2008-11-25 11:25:47
127.   Bob Timmermann
You can bookmark this handy site:
2008-11-25 11:25:53
128.   Eric Stephen
121 ,122
Even if Arizona catches Cal to take 4th place in the conference (AZ beat Cal), the Wildcats lost to all 3 of USC/Oregon/OSU so it would fall to Cal anyway as the next tiebreaker matchup.
2008-11-25 11:26:21
129.   Eric Stephen
2008-11-25 11:28:25
130.   Bob Timmermann
When the Pac-10 does the multi-team tiebreaker and you start looking at records against teams with certain records, you don't break the ties of the lower teams. So if Cal and Arizona had the same record, you would look at the tied teams' records against Cal AND Arizona.
2008-11-25 11:30:36
131.   D4P
Oregon is in a weird spot.

If they tie only with Oregon State, Oregon gets 2nd place.

If they tie with Oregon State and USC, Oregon gets 3rd place.

They'll actually be better off if one team has a better record than them than if no teams have a better record. That's kinda messed up.

2008-11-25 11:31:28
132.   Bob Timmermann
So if...
Oregon beats Oregon State
UCLA beats USC
Washington beats Cal
Arizona beats Arizona State

You would end up with
OSU, USC, and Oregon at 7-2 and Cal and UA at 5-4.

OSU, USC, and Oregon would be 1-1 against each other.

So you would then go down to the record against Cal and Arizona combined.

USC would be 2-0, OSU would be 2-0, and Oregon would be 1-1.

Oregon is out and then OSU wins the head-to-head tiebreaker against USC.

I think Cal losing to Washington would be a bigger upset than USC losing to UCLA.

2008-11-25 11:31:32
133.   Eric Stephen
Good to know. In this case, Oregon would still be eliminated since it is 1-1 against Cal & Arizona.
2008-11-25 11:32:32
134.   oshea2002
In any event, Oregon would get knocked out of the tiebreaker before it got to Stanford, so it'd be OSU. As stupid as the Big 12 tb is, this is even dumber. In a three way tie, make sure you send the best team.

Rodgers getting knocked out is devastating. It hurts their chances at winning, and I think he had a shot at Pac 10 POY. Now that'll go to Sanchez, who although he's been Pac 10 POW like 4 times, totally doesn't deserve it IMO.

2008-11-25 11:34:33
135.   oshea2002
Oregon just needs to do the conference, and me, a favor, and just lay down and lose on Saturday. I'm thinking they channel that Vegas Bowl performance v. BYU from two years ago, that utter lack of effort should seal the deal for the Beavs.
2008-11-25 11:34:40
136.   Bob Timmermann
If there were a 3-way tie for the Pac-10 that meant USC would have lost to UCLA and I would find it hard to believe that USC would be highly regarded after that.
2008-11-25 11:35:16
137.   Eric Stephen
I have no problems with the Pac-10 tiebreaking system.
2008-11-25 11:39:00
138.   mwhite06
134 I completely disagree that the Pac 10 tiebreaker is worse than the Big 12. At least in the Pac 10, action on the field determines the Rose Bowl participant. The Big 12 basically throws their hands up and points all the responsibility on the voters to determine the Champion. Cannot stand what the Big 12 is doing.
2008-11-25 11:40:28
139.   MC Safety
For Man Man fans. Man Man needs a kitten for a video shoot in LA. They promise to be nice to it, too.

2008-11-25 11:40:51
140.   Bob Timmermann
We could go back to the old days and the athletic directors could vote to decide who to send to the Rose Bowl in case of a tie.

Just like in 1966.

2008-11-25 11:41:15
141.   oshea2002
136 - haha, fair point. I still like the highest ranked team tie breaker though.
2008-11-25 11:45:11
142.   Eric Stephen
The Big XII does use the same tiebreaking scenario:

Assuming "chalk" wins this weekend, we'd have a 3-way tie. All 3 teams beat the next-highest team (Oklahoma St), and they also each beat the 2 teams tied for 5th (Baylor & A&M).

It would fall to the same criteria they are currently using, highest ranking in the BCS.

2008-11-25 11:45:29
143.   oshea2002
138 - see, I take the other side. Determining how all three did against the fifth place team seems completely ridiculous too. I just think at the end of the year, you want your best team going - take for instance a three way tie last year, some team could have lost say only to Oregon early in the year, who had say dropped to fifth after Dixon was knocked out, and could clearly be the best team, but could be knocked out of the tiebreaker by this rule. I'm all for head to head tie breakers, but with three teams who all beat each other, I think it's ok to do what the Big 12 is doing, and in their case, they have no choice since each team only lost once.
2008-11-25 11:45:36
144.   Eric Enders
If the Big XII used the Pac-10 tiebreaker system, it would be unable to break the tie, because none of the three tied teams have lost to anyone except each other.
2008-11-25 11:48:03
145.   Bob Timmermann
I should point out that in 1966, although USC finished the regular season 7-3 and UCLA was 9-1, USC finished a 1/2 game better in conference standings (4-1 to 3-1).

It wasn't until the 1980s when conferences finally started scheduling all the teams in its conference with the same number of games.

2008-11-25 11:49:05
146.   mwhite06
144 There must be another tiebreaker for the Pac 10 then. In 2001, Oregon State, Oregon and Washington all had 1 conference loss to each other and UW went to the Rose Bowl. Can anyone remember how UW was chosen over the other 2 in that case?
2008-11-25 11:49:45
147.   oshea2002
Lee Corso has officially jumped on the USC bandwagon.
2008-11-25 11:50:31
148.   goofus
Sign Hoffman, trade Broxton for Peavy.
2008-11-25 11:51:23
149.   fanerman
Did you know that Lee Corso is the director of business development for the Dixon Ticonderoga pencil company?
2008-11-25 11:51:36
150.   Bob Timmermann
It eventually went down to nonconference games and Oregon had one extra loss and that eliminated them and Washington beat OSU head-to-head.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-25 11:52:07
151.   Bob Timmermann
That's why he waves a pencil during College Gameday.
2008-11-25 11:52:09
152.   Eric Enders
Anyway, the reason the Pac-10 system is nonsensical is because it rewards the team with the worst loss. Lose to the fourth place team and you're out, but hey, lose to the eighth place team and you're the champ!
2008-11-25 11:53:31
153.   fanerman
151 And it's a Dixon Ticonderoga pencil! I wonder if he's a #2 soft kind of guy.
2008-11-25 11:54:31
154.   mwhite06
152 Are you talking about the case of 3-way ties or for 2 way ties as well?
2008-11-25 11:55:27
155.   Bob Timmermann
Conversely, you can say the system rewards the teams with the most wins over good teams.
2008-11-25 11:56:13
156.   oshea2002
150 - Oregon State and UW were the best two teams in the country that year, IMO. I still find it shocking that everyone whines about Miami getting the shaft b/c they beat FSU, who went to the NC game (and laid a complete egg), but no one mentions that UW beat Miami. And UW beat Oregon State.

Oregon State's Fiesta Bowl performance was classic. They racked up one personal foul and penalty after another, and still crushed ND. Reminded me of that Miami / Texas game from the early 90's where Miami had like 10 personal fouls and over 200 yards in penalties, and won 50-3.

2008-11-25 11:57:28
157.   Bob Timmermann
Sean McDonough was most displeased with Oregon State during that Fiesta Bowl. He had the line that got him banished to lesser games on ESPN, "You have to remember that this Oregon State team is full of JC transfers."
2008-11-25 11:59:15
158.   Bob Timmermann
The precise quote:

"A big part of (Oregon State's) turnaround is they have a lot of transfers from junior colleges and other Division I programs. Sometimes when you go that route, you're going to get players with troubled pasts.

"You're going to get players who might not be great students, and sometimes you accept that stuff at the cost of improving your football program."

2008-11-25 12:00:31
159.   Eric Enders
154 Well, I was talking about three-way ties although I guess the same thing applies to the two-way ties.
2008-11-25 12:03:43
160.   oshea2002
158 - I remember that. Somehow, I think Ericson will always accept the former to achieve the latter.

I heard that Chad Johnson never attended class, not once. He showed up from SMCC, played the season, and that was it.

2008-11-25 12:05:17
161.   Bob Timmermann
He stuck around long enough to learn some Spanish I guess.
2008-11-25 12:06:58
162.   Kevin Lewis
The three-way tie is how our softball team ended up in the championship game.


"Trinity of Worthlessness" (ToW)

That is awesome!

2008-11-25 12:11:02
163.   Eric Enders
Hey Bob, does your Fighting Irish hatred extend to basketball or is it pigskin only?
2008-11-25 12:14:23
164.   Bob Timmermann
I have put Inigo Montoya on the Digger Phelps case.
2008-11-25 12:16:28
165.   Jon Weisman
2008-11-25 12:16:56
166.   trainwreck
Just think how good we could be if we just sign ex-Giants!!

Ray Durham + Omar Vizquel + Rich Aurilia + Livan Hernandez + Shawn Estes + Sidney Ponson + Julian Tavarez = championship

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