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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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5) discussing politics
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Do the Dodgers Have Any Serious Competition for Ramirez?
2008-12-04 08:38
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Buster Olney of ESPN.com offers an analysis of the Manny Ramirez situation that might be the most cogent I've seen from a national writer.

Executives around baseball ... are having a difficult time envisioning how Ramirez would make more in salary in 2009 than if he accepted arbitration. He made $20 million last season -- although the present-day value was just a little more than $17 million -- and following a historic performance in which Ramirez hit .396 for the Dodgers in two months, driving in 53 runs in 53 games, his arbitration award would be breathtaking. Boras would be in position to set a new and stunning standard through that process, and could ask for A-Rod money.

But accepting arbitration would represent a staggering surrender for Ramirez, who had hoped for a nine-figure contract, and for Boras, who has been talking a deal for as long as six years for the 36-year-old outfielder. One year for $28 million is a long way from 4 years, $100 million, or six years, $150 million. Some friends of Ramirez do not believe that he will allow Boras to take arbitration, as tempting as it may be. "This is not going to be an easy time for Scott," a friend of Ramirez said.

The Dodgers now are perfectly positioned. They have twice dangled Ramirez opportunities for record-setting contracts -- the first being the $45 million offer, which would have established a new standard for outfielders, and the second being the arbitration. If Ramirez accepts the arbitration, the Dodgers would have only a one-year obligation on the aging slugger, and while none of the Dodgers staffers would ever say it out loud, keeping Ramirez on a one-year deal, with the carrot of free agency in front of him, might be the best way to keep him running hard. ...

I think it goes without saying out loud that the Dodgers would prefer to have Ramirez on the shortest-length contract possible. In any event, Olney continues ...

If he doesn't accept arbitration, they can say, legitimately, Hey, we really tried to keep him. They are willing to risk paying Ramirez as much as $30 million, which would seem to be the high end of any arbitration award, for just one season. If he signed elsewhere, most likely with a second-division team, then the Dodgers would get two draft picks as compensation, not bad considering that to date, they haven't paid Ramirez a dime in salary.

Two quibbles with this paragraph. Simply offering Ramirez arbitration, even with the high salary potential, won't alone be enough to constitute a sufficient effort toward keeping Ramirez in the eyes of many Dodger fans. Secondly, Olney seems to forget that the two draft picks in compensation would be replacing Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris, for what that's worth.

But Olney goes on to make a sound point, especially considering how the free agent market has evolved this offseason.

There has been a push from the media in L.A. for the Dodgers to go to a third or fourth year to sign Ramirez, but a question that should be considered is this: Who, exactly, is competing with the Dodgers' offers? What force in the market would appear to compel them go beyond what they have on the table? And wouldn't it be poor management to compete with your own offer?

Many of the traditional big-money teams won't be involved. The Red Sox aren't interested, of course, and the owners of the Mets are faced with the real concern that their new ballpark is named for a company that has been involved in bailout talks, as Richard Sandomir wrote this morning; internally, the Mets are talking very conservatively, reserving their available cash for pitching. If you thought the Yankees might emerge as a Ramirez bidder, keep in mind that they already have Xavier Nady, Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon as corner outfielders, and earlier this week, they decided not to offer Bobby Abreu arbitration because of the risk that he might get $16 million a year. Ramirez might wish for a big Yankee offer, but New York is not suddenly going to generate a $100 million proposal for him, or even anything remotely close to what Ramirez could make in arbitration with the Dodgers. ...

Olney also addresses the Angels, Giants and Orioles but finds them unlikely partners with Ramirez.

Olney concludes by linking to a Kurt Streeter column in today's Times that actually credits Jamie McCourt for stating the obvious - ballplayers sure make a lot more money than an egalitarian society would want. T.J. Simers gets closer to the real lesson - any serious conversation involving the Dodgers and their fans about the economy should start with what the Dodgers will do for their actual customers.

Update: Kevin Goldstein has his Dodger prospect report up at Baseball Prospectus. He puts 2008 top draft pick Ethan Martin first, ahead of Ivan DeJesus, Jr., James McDonald, Scott Elbert and Andrew Lambo, though he writes about Martin that "the gap between what he is now and what he can be is about as wide as the Grand Canyon, and there is plenty of time for things to go wrong."

Also, Don Stanhouse fans need to check out Cardboard Gods today.

Comments (667)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-12-04 08:57:58
1.   JoeyP
When is the deadline for players to either accept/reject arbitration?
2008-12-04 08:58:18
2.   cargill06
1 Sunday night.
2008-12-04 09:01:11
3.   Ken Noe
Rosenthal says Renteria to the Giants is done.
2008-12-04 09:02:51
4.   kinbote
So, would 2y/$50 mil get it done? Talk about the Colletti Special . . .
2008-12-04 09:04:14
5.   ToyCannon
Arbitration would seem to be a nightmare proposition given Manny's thin veneer. I hope the report is true that when we traded for him it was with the expectation we would decline his options and he in turn would decline arbitration. I'm fine with the two year deal they offered him, arbitration would just make for a mad Manny and no one wants that again.
2008-12-04 09:05:30
6.   Disabled List
FTA: And the prices in the corner outfield market are collapsing.

First the housing market, then the stock market, now the corner outfield market. Manny might need a bailout.

Leave it to the Dodgers to end up paying out the most expensive single-season salary in baseball history at a time when free-agent salaries are crashing.

2008-12-04 09:06:56
7.   Ken Noe
One year after arbitration would be best case for the Dodgers, but I suspect Ned already knows that Manny won't accept. It did seem terribly clear last summer, although to be sure the landscape has changed. If Olney's right about the lack of suitors, yes, I think the two-year deal more likely.
2008-12-04 09:07:00
8.   blue22
I still think the Angels will be players here, especially if the market starts to get a little dry for Manny. The Dodgers will sit on their 2/$45M offer (rightly not wanting to bid against themselves), leaving the window open for Moreno to swoop in with a 3/$70M offer (which might be a bargain for Manny in the AL).

This whole thing kind of feels like the Vlad situation all over again.

2008-12-04 09:07:11
9.   ToyCannon
Giants should offer Dunn a one year make good deal, move Winn or Lewis for a 2nd/3rd baseman.

I wonder who will play SS for the Padres. Oscar Robles:)

2008-12-04 09:08:05
10.   kinbote
free-agent salaries are crashing.

Tell that to Edgar Renteria. He just made out rather nicely.

2008-12-04 09:08:35
11.   ToyCannon
Marty's favorite player is up on Cardboard Gods.
2008-12-04 09:08:48
12.   DBrim
I'd be THRILLED if he took it. It's more or less best case, because he'd still be putting forth his A effort since he'd still be playing for a contract.
2008-12-04 09:09:59
13.   blue22
9 - Vizquel or Izturis feels right there.
2008-12-04 09:10:02
14.   regfairfield
Wouldn't a smart team note the market is crashing and try to sign as many players as possible, even if it hurts the bottom line in the short run?
2008-12-04 09:10:07
15.   kinbote
9 Angel Berroa is available.
2008-12-04 09:11:40
16.   kinbote
14 Are you suggesting the Giants are a smart team?
2008-12-04 09:12:43
17.   cargill06
8 Olney points out that Scocisa has as much pull as any GM and does Manny really seems like a Scocisa guy? I wouldn't put a ton of stock in that reasoning but it's at least a possibility.
2008-12-04 09:13:21
18.   underdog
How does Renteria make the Giants a contender? Is he better than I think he is? What am I missing? (I'm just wondering out loud, not addressing anyone here...) And while you're at it, go ahead and trade Sanchez for beans, Sabean.

(That will only worry me if it's a precursor to a CC signing, which sounds possible now.)

2008-12-04 09:13:55
19.   wronghanded
I say stick to the 2-year plan take it or leave it, if we can retain Manny at 25-30 million where will that put our payroll? Could we still potentially offer CC a good contract? If not do we try to re-sign Lowe?
2008-12-04 09:13:56
20.   D4P
If Boras/Manny do have to come crawling back to the Dodgers's 2-year offer, I will enjoy hearing them lie about how Manny always wanted to stay with the Dodgers and how money wasn't that important to him.
2008-12-04 09:16:25
21.   underdog
Btw, how do people feel about Russ Springer? Wouldn't cost a draft pick, might not be that expensive, had a 1.13 WHIP over 50.1 IP last season. Sounds like they're interested in him, is why I'm wondering...

--

If they did sign Manny to a shorter contract could that make it possible to then also offer CC a large contract, or is it still one or the other..?

2008-12-04 09:17:37
22.   oshea2002
Moreno would sign manny strictly to stick it to the Dodgers.
2008-12-04 09:18:32
23.   Jacob Burch
I have apparently grown into quite a pessimist, as I see no way the Dodgers make any offer to CC.

Sigh. Time to find a bar that will show the Colts/Bengals game...

2008-12-04 09:19:31
24.   delias man
YES!!!!! MLBTR says Jack Wilson to Tigers is done!
2008-12-04 09:19:37
25.   ToyCannon
18
The West is so weak that everyone is a contender right now except the Padres. The Diamondbacks lost Dunn, draft picks, Owens, Randy Johnson, and Hudson, while picking back up nothing. The Rockies lost Holliday and Fuentes and how much will the players they got for Holliday help this season. The Giants lost nobody, filling out their bullpen and brought in Renteria a huge upgrade over what they got from SS last year even if he isn't what he used to be. Then again he's only one year removed from a very good 2007 season in the NL where he has been a much better player. The staff may have the best one / two punch in baseball. With a little tinkering I think they can contend.
2008-12-04 09:20:13
26.   JoeyP
Yep, looks like the Tigers replaced Renteria with Jack Wilson.

I dont think thats an improvement.

2008-12-04 09:20:14
27.   CajunDodger
20
...and how his knee has been hurting lately. If we "win" the contract negotiations with Boras, I sincerely worry about the effort he will be putting forth. Of course Manny can hit .310/.390/.560 even when he is agitated at ownership.
2008-12-04 09:20:15
28.   blue22
17 - "Scioscia guy" or not, the man can hit. Losing GA and Tex this year, and Vlad next year, the Angels need a bopper. And don't you think Moreno would love a guy like Manny, not just adding him to his team but also "stealing" him from the Dodgers?
2008-12-04 09:22:41
29.   ToyCannon
24
I always wanted a Cabrera in the Dodger lineup but the first name was Miggy not Orlando.
2008-12-04 09:24:00
30.   CajunDodger
26
This is the feeling I should have had two years ago when the Giants were trying to sign Pierre.

Looks like it is Hu or Bartlett for us.

Please God let Cabrera sign with someone else tomorrow.

2008-12-04 09:27:01
31.   underdog
25 That makes sense. I definitely think the division is up for grabs so it'd make sense if they became more aggressive. I think with or without CC they could contend with just a few more pieces. I guess I still don't find their line-up all that intimidating, but then again ours has a few holes of its own at the moment. I can't imagine the Giants being aggressive won't affect the Dodgers somehow, doubt they stand back and watch that happen. But we've already said that already.

The scary thing would be if it pushes Ned to make some stupid moves in response, instead of smart, measured ones. I'd rather them do what they're doing now, which is measuring and gauging and not rushing into panic mode. But they could still hit panic mode.

Btw, I wonder if Pierre will be dangled during the meetings...

2008-12-04 09:27:19
32.   JoeyP
Orlando Cabrera seems like the typical Ned Colletti acquisition.

He's a veteran.
He's more BA than OPS.

I'd be surprised if the Dodgers dont sign him.

2008-12-04 09:31:54
33.   Tripon
Maybe Ned wants to replace the surliness that Jeff Kent took with him with Orlando Cabrera.
2008-12-04 09:33:24
34.   cargill06
26 Considering what they got from Renteria last year it's probably an improvment. Wilson had a 77 OPS+ with exceptional defense vs. Renteria's OPS+ of 84 with bad defense. I'd still rather gamble on Renteria.
2008-12-04 09:33:32
35.   Bleacher Seats
If Manny can be had for one or two years, that would be ideal.

Tex should be the Dodgers franchise player for the next 8 years and should sign him at 8/160.

Sign Lowe to 4/60. Sign Furcal at 3/45. Then trade for Atkins and tie him up for 8 yrs and trade for Putz. Trade Pierre, Hu, Loney and any of the AAA starters since they won't be needed for several years and we will have a new crop coming up in 3-4 years.

This would have an infield of Tex/Blake/Furcal/Adkins and outfield of Manny/Kemp/Ethier with Lowe as a #1 and Putz to close with Brox.

You figure out the cost, but it would be less than signing CC or Manny to long term contracts and the Dodgers would be set for 6-8 years in the infield - we have several options in 3 years at SS even without Hu.

2008-12-04 09:35:46
36.   wronghanded
Are their any updates on Billingsley? What is the time table for full recovery? With control being his biggest enemy on the mound, the longer it takes him to start throwing, the worse his command will be entering the season. I am awfully scared about our rotation entering '09. I don't think Sheets is the type of player we should roll the dice with yet he seems like the only non-CC signing that could help. I hate to say it but if we do end up signing Manny and not Sabathia we might not be competitive next year.
2008-12-04 09:35:58
37.   ToyCannon
32
I agree, he has already been Ned stamped unless Frank says No because Ballfield number 47 needs to be funded.
2008-12-04 09:36:16
38.   D4P
In addition to Cabrera, might Ned be interested in Eckstein or Vizquel...?
2008-12-04 09:37:04
39.   regfairfield
You would commit eight years to a guy who had a 97 OPS+ last year and has no right playing the position he does?
2008-12-04 09:37:30
40.   CajunDodger
35
Not sure how that would be cheaper since you would spend $50 million per year on Atkins, Tex, and Furcal over the next three years alone while Manny or CC would only cost half of that.
2008-12-04 09:38:18
41.   silverwidow
35 Blow up the farm AND the payroll? Doesn't sound like a good plan.
2008-12-04 09:39:25
42.   MC Safety
37 And don't we give up draft picks, too? That's just gravy on the cake.
2008-12-04 09:40:19
43.   blue22
35 - Manny - $20M
Tex - $20M
Lowe - $15M
Furcal - $15M
Atkins - $8M
Putz - $5M
Pierre - $5M (to trade him)

So that's nearly $90M added to the current $65M or so payroll. And LA trades nearly every young player of value in the Putz, Atkins, and Pierre trades. Good gravy!

2008-12-04 09:43:21
44.   GMac In The 909
35 Kevin Malone, is that you?
2008-12-04 09:45:05
45.   blue22
42/43 - mmm...gravy.
2008-12-04 09:45:39
46.   CajunDodger
I'd rather them do what they're doing now, which is measuring and gauging and not rushing into panic mode. But they could still hit panic mode.

I'm with you on this. Ned's issue has never been aggressiveness. I like the patience he is showing with Manny and the SS situation. I think we will miss out on CC, but I like the idea of Pettite/Johnson on a one year deal and going after Oliver Perez if the price is right.

35
I don't disagree with your premise entirely as I think that Loney could be traded for pitching and Tex could be our offensive centerpiece. However, overspending on Furcal and Lowe while trading a lot of our young talent seems like the type of thing we at DT have been railing against since Colletti took over.

2008-12-04 09:46:53
47.   MC Safety
Gotta love any plan that consists of two, massive 8 year deals.

Ned doesn't give out deals longer than 3 years, unless you're a proven gamer with a ring like Juan Pierre.

2008-12-04 09:47:12
48.   cargill06
43 To be fair it would be a remakably good team. I don't think they have the funds for that and after '10 it may get kind of murky.
2008-12-04 09:47:54
49.   MC Safety
45 LOL
2008-12-04 09:52:01
50.   JoeyP
35- Who plays 2nd base in the Blake/Furcal/Atkins/Tex infield?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-12-04 09:53:26
51.   MC Safety
48 Of course it would be a good team. But wouldn't you rather have 50 youth ballparks?
2008-12-04 09:53:39
52.   CajunDodger
How does a 31 year old pitcher who has averaged 22.5 starts over the past six years with a 109 ERA+ over that time get a 4/$60 deal with an option for year 5...and wait to see if he can do better.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you A.J. Burnett.

2008-12-04 09:54:03
53.   wronghanded
50 Blake (DeWitt)
2008-12-04 09:54:52
54.   underdog
36 Everything I've heard indicates he should be back and recovered just before spring training. There will always be some nervousness until he gets back on the mound but no one seems too worried about how it will affect him since he has a lot of time to recover and it's his non-push off leg. But of course there's still a feeling we should cross our fingers a bit.
2008-12-04 09:55:19
55.   blue22
48 - Many teams are in a position to field a great team for a year or two if only they jacked up the payroll 150% and emptied the farm system.
2008-12-04 09:55:34
56.   JoeyP
Ooh, I was thinking Casey Blake for some reason.

If Atkins could play 3b, I wouldnt mind bringing him in. I definitely wouldnt sign him up for 8 years.

2008-12-04 09:56:45
57.   Bleacher Seats
Dodgers would become an offensive powerhouse and would also dominate in pitching with the staff they have developed. Drew will go off the books in a year unless he will take an early buyout. The Ds have a core of 6-7 young players that will get signed to long-term contracts over time, but not for 2-3 years. In the meantime, the Dodgers will be in the World Series for the next 5 years - what is that worth to Ned and Mc. It would bring the payroll up to 155-165M, but they would have one hellofa team for the next 5-10 years.
2008-12-04 09:57:32
58.   silverwidow
48 Anyone can draw up a fantasy team, though. I don't know it's being "fair," just unrealistic.
2008-12-04 09:57:45
59.   cargill06
Rosenthal says...

Rosenthal believes the Dodgers will renew talks for Robinson Cano at the Winter Meetings, and the Dodgers will again ask for Matt Kemp.

So it must be a 3 team trade, we recieve Cano, The Yankees recieve Kemp, Team X recieves prospects and Kemp and they trade Kemp to the Dodgers.

2008-12-04 09:57:55
60.   MC Safety
I want some of what 57 is on.
2008-12-04 09:58:39
61.   regfairfield
Casey Blake 2008: 110 OPS+, -6 defense
Garrett Atkins: 97 OPS+, -11 defense

Garrett Atkins is a bad player.

2008-12-04 10:01:12
62.   D4P
Atkins

2006: 79 BBs, 76 Ks

2008: 40 BBs, 100 Ks

What happened...?

2008-12-04 10:03:12
63.   MC Safety
The Kemp for Cano rumor has to be one of the more disgusting displays of sports journalism I've seen in the last few years.
2008-12-04 10:03:59
64.   wronghanded
62 Advanced scouting
2008-12-04 10:04:04
65.   Bob Timmermann
62
He missed.
2008-12-04 10:04:46
66.   JoeyP
Atkins is only 29 yrs old though.
He's entering what should be his prime.

It is troubling that he's gotten worse the last 3yrs:

2006 - 136 OPS+
2007 - 112 OPS+
2008 - 97 OPS+

He was bad in 2008, but it might be a bit early to label him a bad player altogether.

2008-12-04 10:05:27
67.   cargill06
63 Ned already said he won't trade away Kemp unless he "can get multiple pieces in return" so a one for one trade won't happen... throw in A-Rod we may have something.
2008-12-04 10:05:51
68.   CajunDodger
59
Sure, we'll give you Kemp for Cano...and Joba. I swear, teams continue to just ask for stupid deals from the Dodgers.
2008-12-04 10:08:03
69.   Harold M Johnson
68 Experience informs decision making.
2008-12-04 10:15:49
70.   ToyCannon
69
Right, Santana/Melona for Blake is the benchmark to work from.
2008-12-04 10:19:37
71.   Tripon
12:14pm: Dejan Kovacevic talked to Pirates president Frank Coonelly, who said Wilson has not been traded. The Tigers apparently made an interesting offer last night for Wilson, but the Dodgers remain in the mix.

Dejan Kovaevic really wants the Dodgers to trade for Jack Wilson.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-04 10:20:29
72.   still bevens
68 I think if Colletti didnt mention Kemp is available in any opportunity he is given then maybe teams wouldnt ask?
2008-12-04 10:22:30
73.   Jon Weisman
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8340

Dodgers Top 11 Prospects
by Kevin Goldstein

2008-12-04 10:23:56
74.   Bleacher Seats
58 - In that senaro, Manny would be off the books in 1-2 years and Drew/Pierre/Schmidty would be off the books in 1 year. That's some 40-50M off the books in 2010 (depending how Pierre/Drew are handled).
2008-12-04 10:29:48
75.   LogikReader
74

Sweet! Let's go after LeBron James!

2008-12-04 10:30:05
76.   Sean P
For the record, Garrett Atkins away from Coors:

2005- .648 OPS
2006- .933 OPS
2007- .773 OPS
2008- .661 OPS

2008-12-04 10:31:37
77.   savvyjr
Excellent article on CNNSI concerning the Dodgers: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/12/02/bp.dodgersgm/index.html
Highlight "suggestions" include:
1. Sign Lowe for four years and $62 million. He's the best fit for this team and this payroll, and there should be some value to Lowe in not having to relocate. If there's not, ply him with additional money.
2. Trade Paul and Victor Garate to the Brewers for Weeks; then make Weeks a centerfielder. It's a low bid, and honestly, I'm skeptical enough of DeJesus' power and ability to play shortstop than I might deal him if that's what it took to get Weeks.
3. Sign Durham for two years, $8 million. The extra year is designed to get this over with quickly, as the falloff from Durham to the next option is steep enough to want to avoid the question. If Durham is done, this is an easy contract to eat. Speaking of which...
4. Release Jones. Ideally, you could get him to agree to a buyout, where he takes 60 cents on the dollar and gets to hit the market again, choosing that ahead of a season in which he bats 125 times as the Dodgers' fifth outfielder. There's no place for him on this roster.
5. Sign Javier Valentin. He starts 30-35 games against good right-handed pitchers and is a very good pinch-hitter the rest of the time.
6. Re-sign Takashi Saito. Offer him a high-upside deal. It's not likely there's much guaranteed money available for him, and he's one of those "good or unavailable" guys.
These things done, my 2009 Dodgers:

Weeks CF
Ethier LF
Kemp RF
Loney 1B
Martin C
Durham 2B
DeWitt 3B
Hu SS

Bench: Pierre, Valentin, Delwyn Young, Tony Abreu, Jason Repko

Rotation: Lowe, Billingsley, Kershaw, Kuroda, Kuo, Schmidt

Bullpen: Broxton, Saito, Cory Wade, McDonald, Stults, Elbert

2008-12-04 10:33:17
78.   Tripon
77 That's the Joe Sheehan article wrote for BP a few days back.

Guess that's why its free now, he turned it into an si.com column.

2008-12-04 10:33:18
79.   ToyCannon
74
Your future team lost me with Atkins and the fact Teixeira has no desire to play for the Dodgers. So the cornerstone of your 8 year deals are either not desirable or not reality based.
I already have to apologize to JoeyP if Teixeira does not end up on the East Coast. Then again after playing on the right coast maybe he has gained appreciation for playing baseball in good weather but if so it will be with the Angels not the Dodgers.
2008-12-04 10:36:09
80.   savvyjr
Yeah, pretty interesting article by Sheehan. I like his insight. Not sure if I agree with the Weeks in CF suggestion, but the impetus behind it, is that Kemp is better off in RF and Ethier in LF. I wholeheartedly agree.
2008-12-04 10:39:02
81.   Icaros
77

How many times does it have to be pointed out that Saito, despite being old, is still under Dodgers control? Unless they non-tender him, he is going nowhere but LA or back to Japan. Why the need to offer a "high-upside deal?" You'd think a guy getting paid by two places for the same article would have a clue.

2008-12-04 10:43:53
82.   CajunDodger
73
Really surprised he has Ethan Martin over McDonald and even DeJesus for that matter, though he concedes that the top five could be moved around...
2008-12-04 10:44:40
83.   savvyjr
I was unaware of Saito situation. I thought I had heard the club had an option year on him. He certainly seemed to have lost some stuff in the second half this year, and I wouldn't be disappoited if we relased him and brought in Hoffman to further "tutor" Broxton and get us some saves.
2008-12-04 10:45:08
84.   Andrew Shimmin
Can you imagine a worse tv show than a series of "symposiums involving owners from all of the major sports, players' representatives and even fans," talking about how everybody else makes too much money? All the game show producers in Japan could not salvage that.
2008-12-04 10:45:21
85.   Tripon
can a 4 star prospect jump to a 5 star prospect during his development?
2008-12-04 10:45:54
86.   regfairfield
Saito is arbitration eligible to the best of my knowledge. He's a player with almost three years service time that happens to be 38.
2008-12-04 10:47:55
87.   savvyjr
I wonder where Manny ends up. I'm scared he'll accept arbitration and ends up dogging it for us on a 1 year contract, and we end up not finding trade partners for Jones or Pierre.
2008-12-04 10:48:15
88.   Tripon
If Saito still wants to pitch for the Dodgers, we should sign him to a two year deal around $3 million to allow him to rehab, and come back later.
2008-12-04 10:49:48
89.   fanerman
73 For the lazy:

BP:
1. Ethan Martin, RHP
2. Ivan De Jesus Jr., SS/2B
3. James McDonald, RHP
4. Scott Elbert, LHP
5. Andrew Lambo, LF
Three-Star Prospects
6. Josh Lindblom, RHP
7. Devaris Gordon, SS
8. Josh Bell, 3B
Two-Star Prospects
9. Pedro Baez, 3B
10. Kyle Russell, RF
11. Xavier Paul, CF

To compare, here are TBLA's voted rankings:
1.James McDonald
2. Ivan DeJesus
3. Andrew Lambo
4. Scott Elbert
5. Ethan Martin
6. Josh Lindblom
7. Austin Gallagher
8. Josh Bell
9.Chris Withrow
10.Xavier Paul
11.Nathan Eovaldi
12. Jamie Pedroza
13. Tony Delmonico
14 Devaris Strange-Gordon

2008-12-04 10:50:09
90.   Duranimal
Baseball Prospectus Article on Top 11 Prospects

Overall, I don't think this article is very encouraging.

1. 4 of the top 6 are pitchers (including Ethan Martin at 1), and young pitching is always tough to forecast.

2. There's no 5 star can't miss position player. Andrew Lambo may be able to hit, but it sounds like that may be all.

3. Josh Bell and Pedro Baez sound like true longshots.

4. Very weird to me that Devaris Gordon didn't start playing baseball until high school. Your father (Tom) pitches in the majors, and you're our least refined prospect?

2008-12-04 10:50:49
91.   Sean P
80

What's not to like about trading a CF and a 2B for a 2B who you intend to play in CF while covering 2B with a 3B?

2008-12-04 10:51:58
92.   Eric Stephen
87
I would accept Manny dogging it to the tune of .299/.398/.529, playing in 91% of the team's games, as Manny did for Boston last year.
2008-12-04 10:53:19
93.   savvyjr
Dewitt may have come up as a 3B, but his lack of power, suggests he may be better off at 2B, at least for this team, unless we can find power up the middle to support having him at 3B.
2008-12-04 10:54:28
94.   regfairfield
88 Or he says no, and he either gets a 1/5 type deal in arbitration, or we non tender him and get squat.

The man was an elite closer for no cost for 2.5 years, giving him a pay cut is horrible.

2008-12-04 10:54:52
95.   Kevin Lewis
92

If only all our players "dogged" it like that

2008-12-04 10:55:54
96.   Jon Weisman
83 - Saito had a 2.18 ERA in the first half this year with 41 strikeouts in 29 innings, then threw only 5 2/3 innings in the second half. He was hurt - I don't know if that's what you mean by he lost his stuff.

At any rate, Hoffman had a 5.08 ERA in the first half last year before posting a 1.59 ERA in the second. Hard to assess, but I don't see any guarantee that Hoffman would be a better pitcher or tutor than Saito.

2008-12-04 10:57:50
97.   Daniel Zappala
Forget the hot stove league. Stay in your own kitchen, instead. Bacon recipes galore!

http://tinyurl.com/5h89c4

2008-12-04 10:58:13
98.   Icaros
83

I couldn't disagree with that idea more. Hoffman is the definition of a guy who has "lost some stuff," and we'd have to pay at least twice as much for him.

2008-12-04 11:01:58
99.   D4P
I wouldn't be disappoited if we relased him and brought in Hoffman to further "tutor" Broxton

Maybe we should hire a coach whose specific duty is to coach the pitchers.

2008-12-04 11:04:08
100.   Kevin Lewis
99

I had a coach like that in high school. Real name was Dick Little.

They had a title for the type of coaching he did...

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-12-04 11:04:36
101.   savvyjr
Whew, tough crowd. My suggestion regarding Hoffman, is in light of the fact that Saito's injury never seemed to heal. He was obviously grinding it out when he did come back, and looked to be a shell of his former self. OBVIOUSLY Hoffman has lost some stuff. But, he's a winner, has a proven track record, experienced in the NL West. Maybe more importantly, I don't think we can safely turn the keys over to Broxton just yet.
2008-12-04 11:05:19
102.   kinbote
I remember when we were thinking of bringing in Carlos Delgado to help "tutor" Shawn Green. Those plans never quite seem to work out.
2008-12-04 11:05:51
103.   savvyjr
And I disagree with #83. We could get Hoffman on a reasoable 1-year contract.
2008-12-04 11:05:58
104.   Icaros
If the Dodgers are looking for tutors, I have 6 years of English tutoring experience with young-adult ESL learners in LA county. Make me an offer, guys.
2008-12-04 11:08:10
105.   Icaros
103

He turned down $4 million from the organization that thinks he's a god. I wouldn't even want him for $4 million.

2008-12-04 11:08:51
106.   savvyjr
Easy there guys. Hoffman could be a guy to help Broxton with his mentality of being a closer more than anything. This is a guy that used to have some of the most wicked stuff in baseball, who has constantly reinvented himself to be sucessful at the MLB level. Broxton is a horse with a live arm, but you can just see his sphincter getting tight through his baggy pants everytime he gives up a couple of hits or walks. Big time upside, but needs more seasoning.
2008-12-04 11:09:31
107.   savvyjr
He turned down $4 million, knowing the Padres are gonna suck next year.
2008-12-04 11:10:11
108.   Jacob Burch
Have you guys not seen Hoffman's eyes when he's on the mound?
2008-12-04 11:11:08
109.   D4P
OBVIOUSLY Hoffman has lost some stuff. But, he's a winner

Isn't he more of a saver...?

2008-12-04 11:11:33
110.   Icaros
107

No, he wanted to stay. They didn't really want him anymore, and he was upset by that.

2008-12-04 11:12:55
111.   Eric Stephen
108
He pulls his cap down, a la Dave Stewart, so sometimes it is hard to see los ojos.
2008-12-04 11:13:31
112.   Jon Weisman
106 - I agree with those who feel that you do not need to pay a player's salary to someone who is essentially a coach.

I've discussed people's unfair perceptions of Broxton at exhaustive lengths this year - you should check the archives. Of course he will benefit from more seasoning, but there is no call for paying more than $4 million to an over-the-hill reliever.

2008-12-04 11:13:44
113.   savvyjr
Who really cares why he's not on the Padres anymore. He's a guy that can continue to bridge the gap for the younger guys. You could even argue after watching the playoffs this year, that the 7th/8th inning guys are even more important that a closer. If we are able to keep Kuo, Wade, Broxton in those roles, you're looking at a lights-out bullpen.
2008-12-04 11:13:51
114.   ToyCannon
We sure have a lot of disdain for players on other teams who have kicked our ass over the years.
2008-12-04 11:14:17
115.   Marty
11 I'd like to think it was my diatribe in the first Stanhouse post that brought him out of whatever hole he was hiding in.
2008-12-04 11:14:26
116.   Bob Timmermann
Does Trevor Hoffman have calm eyes? The good players have calm eyes according to Tim McCarver.
2008-12-04 11:14:34
117.   Icaros
Broxton is a horse with a live arm, but you can just see his sphincter getting tight through his baggy pants everytime he gives up a couple of hits or walks.

I think you and I focus on different aspects of the game while watching.

2008-12-04 11:14:49
118.   kinbote
Is there any award in the world more meaningless than a Grammy?
2008-12-04 11:16:55
119.   cargill06
But, he's a winner

Mike Singeltary would approve of Hoffman to the Dodgers.

2008-12-04 11:17:03
120.   still bevens
118 They're building a Grammy Museum in the LA Live "entertainment" complex. The mind reels.
2008-12-04 11:17:05
121.   regfairfield
The only part of this team that isn't horribly dysfunctional is the bullpen. The last thing we should be wasting money on is middle relief.
2008-12-04 11:17:31
122.   Kevin Lewis
If we are not ready to turn the closer role to Broxton this year, than I say we trade him while his value is high.
2008-12-04 11:17:41
123.   Bob Timmermann
118
1. ESPY
2. Golden Globe
3. Gold Glove
4. C. Montgomery Burns Award for Outsanding Efforts in the Field of Excellence
2008-12-04 11:18:33
124.   Kevin Lewis
120

I saw a news special on LA Live yesterday, and I still don't understand what it all is. A lot of construction for now.

2008-12-04 11:19:05
125.   D4P
Most awards are meaningless, especially those with multi-hour television coverage dedicated to them.
2008-12-04 11:19:41
126.   cargill06
You could even argue after watching the playoffs this year, that the 7th/8th inning guys are even more important that a closer

Just another case of the "closer" tage screwing a team. Just throw you best relievers in the highest leverage situation please.

2008-12-04 11:19:57
127.   Andrew Shimmin
It was "Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence," I believe.
2008-12-04 11:20:54
128.   savvyjr
I guess I wonder why nobody suggests Cory Wade for a possible closer. Great strike-thrower and competitor.
2008-12-04 11:21:09
129.   fanerman
127 He's also missing the "First Annual" part, but I guess that's debatable since it's been many years since the first one.
2008-12-04 11:21:19
130.   Bob Timmermann
127
No, that was an IMPORTANT award.
2008-12-04 11:22:22
131.   Jon Weisman
I'm heading to an early lunch - please remember these rules, all of which have been violated or nearly violated in the past 24 hours:

Thank You For Not ...
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

2008-12-04 11:25:16
132.   Tripon
Main reason why we shouldn't sign Hoffman to a contract: We already have a closer. Now if the Dodgers sign Hoffman as a 'closer' so Broxton can't acquire high save totals to use for his arbitration hearings than I can see the logic behind that. I think its a dumb move but eh, this is the same team that had to pay Eric Gagne 8 million and 10 million for his last two years of arbitration for an injured pitcher.

A closer is one the relief pitcher that gets paid out of proportion to the rest of the relief corp, and limiting Broxton's saves to limit his salary via the arbitration process might be worth signing Hoffman for one year.

2008-12-04 11:25:42
133.   Bob Timmermann
Don't forget about that no-hitter that was jinxed in the Hawaii Winter league.
2008-12-04 11:27:17
134.   Harold M Johnson
124 restaurants at LA Live:

ESPN Zone
Fleming's Prime Steakhouse & Wine Bar
Katsuya
Lawry's Carvery
New Zealand Natural
Rock'N Fish
Rosa Mexicano
Starbucks Coffee
The Farm of Beverly Hills
Trader Vic's
Wolfgang Puck Bar & Grill
Yard House

there's also an "upscale" bowling alley and two concert venues. They'll also be filming west coast sportscenter there.

2008-12-04 11:28:04
135.   Tripon
Khalil Greene traded to the Cards for Worrell and a player to be named later.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-04 11:28:15
136.   Bob Timmermann
134
Trader Vic's has too many werewolves in it for my taste.
2008-12-04 11:29:17
137.   Bob Timmermann
Mark Worrell is not related to Todd
2008-12-04 11:30:33
138.   underdog
135 Todd Worrell's still pitching?? (Heh.) You know, I'm glad the Padres are focusing on the thing that'll really bring them back to respectability -- middle relief. You show 'em, Towers!

-

I sentence any rule violators here to ten minutes on the Sporcle site, must complete a challenging quiz in the allotted time without embarrassing oneself before returning to DT.

2008-12-04 11:31:01
139.   Kevin Lewis
134

Sounds a bit like Old Town corporate restaurants not worth eating at.

2008-12-04 11:31:17
140.   still bevens
I refer to LA Live as Universal City Walk south.
2008-12-04 11:33:06
141.   D4P
Mark Worrell had 80 Ks in 58.2 innings at AAA last season.
2008-12-04 11:33:07
142.   Harold M Johnson
139 Yup. But, if you're going to be at Staples for a Lakers or Kings game... definitely a lot more options then the previous two closest options of The Palms and Liberty Grille.
2008-12-04 11:33:18
143.   bhsportsguy
134 All kidding aside, anything that might allow me the option of not buying a hot dog at Staples will be a welcome sight.

Not that I go there that often.

The only event I have seen there was the Scully/Wooden event.

2008-12-04 11:35:19
144.   Harold M Johnson
I go to about 2-3 Kings games and about 5-10 Lakers games per year so I am not actually excited for LA Live, at least it gives many more options pre and post game.

The best food in the Staples center, IMO is the french dip sandwiches at the last remaining vestige of the Forum...

2008-12-04 11:37:17
145.   Ken Noe
Is this Greene-Worrell deal anything but a Padre salary dump?
2008-12-04 11:37:24
146.   fanerman
134 Is there a bacon-wrapped hot dog vendor nearby?
2008-12-04 11:37:39
147.   Kevin Lewis
138

I opened up the "Friends" guest stars quiz and got scared.

I then took the Office character quiz, and I am sad to say I blanked on the "Supplier Relations"

2008-12-04 11:37:45
148.   Tripon
1:33pm: Henry Schulman says Renteria's deal has a $9.5MM option for 2011 with a $500K buyout. Also, Renteria can void the option and take the buyout if he's traded during the contract.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-04 11:40:29
149.   Bob Timmermann
140
LA Live will have a bit more of the "Blade Runner Interactive" feel to it.
2008-12-04 11:43:53
150.   Marty
We need to pass a law outlawing ESPNZones.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-12-04 11:45:17
151.   Kevin Lewis
Once again, I have not been to Staples Center, so I guess I wouldn't know the difference.
2008-12-04 11:45:44
152.   savvyjr
I'm heading to an early lunch - please remember these rules, all of which have been violated or nearly violated in the past 24 hours...

What happened to the rule about discussing the Dodgers?

2008-12-04 11:48:46
153.   Bob Timmermann
152
That's the first rule of Fight Club.
2008-12-04 11:49:15
154.   Disabled List
I like Yard House. Any place with 100 craft beers on tap will get my business semi-regularly, at the very least.

Still need more people living in downtown to make LA Live viable, if you ask me.

2008-12-04 11:51:55
155.   Kevin Lewis
154

It is great for happy hour, but it ends too soon (6:00)

2008-12-04 11:55:18
156.   kngoworld
If Sunday night is the deadline to accept or reject arbitration offers, do all players wait for the deadline to announce or can that take place now? Guess I am asking if any players have already decided if they will be accepting or rejecting arbitration.
2008-12-04 11:55:39
157.   silverwidow
I really like the Ethan Martin pick as #1 on BP. It's outside-the-box, but a smart move to pick the kid with the highest ceiling of any Dodger prospect.
2008-12-04 11:56:59
158.   JoeyP
True of False:

Edward Norton is one of the top 3 actors of his generation?

2008-12-04 11:58:10
159.   SG6
LA Live gets blasted by LA Times architect critic Christopher Hawthorne.

Compares it to a cruise ship, "The entirety of the AEG development downtown -- Staples plus L.A. Live -- is designed like an airtight cruise ship, turning not a welcoming face but the architectural equivalent of a massive hull to the neighbors. Its spillover effect may be measured not in gallons but in drops."

More: "When we trap the energy of an urban crowd inside this sort of self-contained world, and when we allow developers and their architects to heighten the differences between that world and the streets around it so dramatically, we help keep the rest of our blocks underused and, as pieces of the city, undernourished."

2008-12-04 11:58:46
160.   kngoworld
158 At first thought, I would say no, but he probably makes top ten. Also, would have to clarify his generation.
2008-12-04 12:03:49
161.   Andrew Shimmin
I bet the neighbors don't mind their streets being undernourished, given that the usual way sports fans nourish streets is the Moises Alou hand nourishment method.
2008-12-04 12:08:11
162.   Tripon
Teams can once again draft JtD in the rule 5 draft.
2008-12-04 12:09:37
163.   Tripon
Derek (Minneapolis): Ron Gardenhire: "Those three guys [Span, Gomez, Cuddyer] need to play every day. Delmon is in the mix. He?s a hell of a player, a hell of a talent. But to me, those three guys should be your outfield and then you go from there." So, what exactly is Gardenhire trying to do by announcing this? Raise Cuddyer's trade value? Lower Young's? Just be an example of what not to say to the press? We here in Minnesota are confused--any help you could offer would be much appreciated.

SportsNation Keith Law: The confused person here is Gardenhire. And seriously, shut your damn mouth before you devalue Young any more. I would be through the roof if I was a GM and my manager started popping off about a player like that. Just. Stop. Talking.

Holy crap, isn't Young their best outfielder?

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=23917

2008-12-04 12:13:58
164.   LogikReader
Boy, so much criticism of L.A. Live! I personally welcome the new list of options before a Staples Center game. I much prefer to see a Downtown Hollywood & Highland across the street than a big parking lot... don't you agree?

p.s.: I discovered the Pantry last month and LOVE their hamburger... and there's no reasonable explanation for it.

2008-12-04 12:14:48
165.   cargill06
162 JtD?
2008-12-04 12:15:30
166.   Eric Enders
If you define Norton's generation as people within ten years of his age, then he's probably #1.
2008-12-04 12:15:44
167.   regfairfield
And Michael Cuddyer is in the running for worst player in baseball.
2008-12-04 12:16:00
168.   silverwidow
162 Guzman had been on the Dodgers or Rays roster since Nov. 2005 up until he was DFA'd in 2008. So this would be the first time he's unprotected.
2008-12-04 12:17:21
169.   Eric Enders
167 No he isn't.
2008-12-04 12:17:52
170.   Tripon
Corey (Chicago, IL): What is your projection of J. Smardijia? Top of rotation starter?

SportsNation Keith Law: Middle reliever, maybe setup guy.

That might make Bob happy.

2008-12-04 12:19:21
171.   fanerman
165 Joel the Destroyer. Joel Guzman. The last member of the "Jacksonville Five." He was on the same AA Jacksonville Suns team as Russell Martin, Chad Billingsley, Jon Broxton, James Loney, and Andy LaRoche. (IIRC, 6 players had a claim on being part of the Jacksonville Five)
2008-12-04 12:19:48
172.   regfairfield
Is too. Can't hit, horrible defense. Granted, he does have a cannon for an arm.
2008-12-04 12:20:52
173.   Bob Timmermann
Samardzija!

Just like it sounds.

2008-12-04 12:21:21
174.   Tripon
Jack, CA: Assuming the LA Philanthropists eat some salary, do you think there is more of a trade market for Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones?

SportsNation Keith Law: Jones. But really, zero for both.

2008-12-04 12:23:04
175.   Eric Enders
As long as people like Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre exist, nobody with a 92 OPS+ (and better than 100 both years before that) is anywhere near the discussion for worst player in baseball.
2008-12-04 12:23:31
176.   Marty
I think the Pantry burger is ok. Their fries are horribly soggy most of the time. I think the best thing they do is an omelet.
2008-12-04 12:24:14
177.   Tripon
Ross (CA): Hey Keith, so Affeldt and Howry to short term deals. Apparently going to sign Renteria, and considered by many of your colleagues as a darkhorse for Sabathia. Have the Giants decided they want to flirt with contention in 09? Even if they do fail the next two years, do you believe that the plus depth they have in the Minors should be MLB ready at that time for another run?

SportsNation Keith Law: That division is definitely within reach, and I have no objection to the Giants trying to improve their '09 club as long as they don't damage their '10-11 clubs in doing it, by trading prospects or blocking them. And seriously, no Jorge Cantu. Please.

This sounds strangely familiar. Oh, that's right this was the Dodgers plan in 07 and 08 and it blew up in their face.

2008-12-04 12:25:48
178.   silverwidow
Johnny Rockets has horribly overpriced fries - $3 for a small bag that's worth about a buck.
2008-12-04 12:25:56
179.   Tripon
Steve (NYC): Thoughts on Top Chef this season? Stefan's easily the most talented chef they've had in two seasons.

SportsNation Keith Law: Haven't watched. Tivo'd an episode, never got around to it.

2008-12-04 12:32:36
180.   scareduck
179 - I still do not understand the appeal of Top Chef. It reminds me of the quote, sometimes attributed to Elvis Costello, that "writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
2008-12-04 12:36:56
181.   scareduck
176 - it is amazing how many places famed for their burgers have really terrible fries. In-N-Out is absolutely the worst in this regard: limp, greasy, and routinely oversalted, it's one of the things I recall whenever I (rarely) get a hankering for fries. Most mom-and-pop places mangle fries, too. Probably the best are McDonald's and Carl's, Jr., but Carl's were better when they used preformed potato paste fries back in the 80's, something few people these days remember.
2008-12-04 12:41:31
182.   cargill06
-N-Out is absolutely the worst in this regard: limp, greasy, and routinely oversalted, it's one of the things I recall whenever I (rarely) get a hankering for fries

I agree, animal style will cover up those problems. Or, well done my friend.

2008-12-04 12:42:57
183.   Marty
I love the fries at Langers. Krinkle-cut and done just the way I like them, crispy on the outside, soft on the inside. With their pastrami sandwich and fries, I always think of Sandy Koufax. He had the best fastball, but he had the best curveball too.
2008-12-04 12:44:49
184.   JoeyP
Cuddyer's not the worst player in baseball but he's also not a guy that you "must" get Abs too. He's had 1 good year (2006), a really crappy year (2008) and then a slew of mediocre average ones. He probably doesnt have much trade value.

Span is the one guy the Twins should keep. Young/Gomez I guess you can keep around and hope they figure it out. But neither can walk or hit home runs. Having both in the OF really limits an offense.

2008-12-04 12:46:06
185.   Daniel Zappala
Is too. Can't hit, horrible defense. Granted, he does have a cannon for an arm.

Yes, but isn't it a toy cannon?

2008-12-04 12:48:05
186.   Daniel Zappala
181 I have gradually become averse to fries over the years. I will never order them anymore. I order from places that will give me a green salad with my burger.
2008-12-04 12:48:38
187.   Tripon
Players you 'must' get AB to have their full effectiveness:

Juan Pierre
Andruw Jones

2008-12-04 12:52:01
188.   Eric Enders
187 But then the problem is you're stuck with their full effectiveness.
2008-12-04 12:53:39
189.   JoeyP
The question of worst player in baseball is difficult:

I'd have said the Royals SS Tony Pena, but he lost his job midway thru last year.

Michael Bourn of the Astros had no business collecting as many ABs as he did.

2008-12-04 12:56:16
190.   Tripon
Other than Furcal, who visited last week with the Oakland A's, the top remaining free-agent shortstop is Orlando Cabrera. The White Sox offered him arbitration, so the Dodgers would have to surrender their first-round draft choice to sign him, and they would prefer to explore other options. But it's a steep drop from Furcal and Cabrera to the likes of Alex Cora, Cesar Izturis and David Eckstein, so the Dodgers will be talking trade at next week's winter meetings.

At least it seems we're not interested in Cabrera.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/dodgers-still-l.html

2008-12-04 12:56:18
191.   D4P
Speaking of worst players:

Anyone know what Neifi!'s up to these days, and whether Ned still has him on speed dial...?

2008-12-04 12:58:23
192.   ToyCannon
184
Funny thing about Span, at this time last year he had lost all his buzz, now he's the guy to keep, and the number pick in the 2003 draft is being relegated to 4th outfielder status. He may still work out but as of now Tampa Bay just picked the Twins pocket and you didn't see that happen very often in the past.
2008-12-04 12:59:06
193.   cargill06
190 JJ Hardy! One can dream.
2008-12-04 13:00:37
194.   Tripon
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/bank-bailout.html#more

In money matters, the current bailout of wall street costs more(adjusted for inflation), the Louisiana Purchase, The Korean War, the New Deal, Vietnam War, and the Marshall Plan combined.

That must mean that the bailout would be that much more effective right?

2008-12-04 13:03:02
195.   ToyCannon
Wily Taveraz, Michael Bourne, Melky Cabrera should all get some votes but those are center fielders so my vote goes to Austin Kearns who doesn't even have speed in his terrible skill set. Hard to believe this is the same guy who once looked like one of the best young hitters in the game and until last year had posted an OPS+ > 100 7 out of 8 years.
2008-12-04 13:04:23
196.   ToyCannon
193
Would you trade good young players for JJ or say screw it, just give Furcal the extra year?
2008-12-04 13:05:52
197.   Daniel Zappala
190 What shortstops might be available via trade? I hear the Rays have thought about trading their SS. [ducks]
2008-12-04 13:06:35
198.   Tripon
194 Sorry, not combined. I misread the inflation numbers. The bailout costs more individually over the ones I listed.
2008-12-04 13:07:05
199.   D4P
What shortstops might be available via trade?

I was trying to figure out who Ned might be interested in. Cristian Guzman? Marco Scutaro?

2008-12-04 13:07:43
200.   cargill06
196 Well obviously it depends who the players are. But Hardy is a much better player than Furcal. Probably has a better chance to stay healthy, and if I'm not mistaken is under club control for '09 and '10.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-12-04 13:08:36
201.   JoeyP
Jeff Francoeur was really bad last year:
.239/.294/.359 in 599 Abs.

If you take into account what to expect from each position, that was awful. Pretty crazy he can have that steep of decline from his rookie season when he was on the cover of SI.

2008-12-04 13:08:42
202.   Harold M Johnson
Any chance the Tigers trade Migs or Mags at the winter meetings?
2008-12-04 13:09:02
203.   Eric Enders
I still think our best option is to re-sign Furcal. Our second-best option is to play some combination of DeJesus and Hu. I don't know what the third-best option is, but it'd be a pretty distant third.
2008-12-04 13:09:55
204.   Tripon
If we want to be silly, lets trade for Maicer Izturis. He's probably just as good as his brother, and might only cost us a low prospect. The Angels seem likely to want to give their SS job to Richard Brandon Wood.
2008-12-04 13:10:23
205.   ToyCannon
From the same article the Angels say they are satisfied with Aybar. He's had a busy week what with starting a brawl and then hitting for cycle against the same team.

Have to admit I wouldn't mind Maicer Izturis playing SS for us if the Angels are happy with Aybar.

2008-12-04 13:15:07
206.   Daniel Zappala
Izturis does make a lot of sense. Especially if the Angels return Figgins to a utility role by having Wood at 3B and Aybar at SS.
2008-12-04 13:15:09
207.   trainwreck
I do not agree that Stefan is the best contestant on Top Chef in a couple seasons at all. He has won one challenge so far.
2008-12-04 13:15:21
208.   JoeyP
Does anyone believe that an American winter baseball league could ever catch on?

Something similar to the Dominican & Mexican leagues.

2008-12-04 13:15:48
209.   Eric Stephen
195
I remember 5 or 6 years ago, Baseball Prospectus predicted a Baseball Weekly cover featuring Kearns, Griffey, & Dunn and the title "Best OF Ever?"

That one didn't work out so much.

2008-12-04 13:16:47
210.   cargill06
I'd rather go with Hu than trade for Macier.
2008-12-04 13:17:27
211.   Eric Stephen
208
I would watch, but it would face stiff competition for ratings and attendance from both football and basketball.
2008-12-04 13:18:43
212.   underdog
158 I would definitely put Norton in at least the top 5 actors of his generation, though I'd like to see him branch out a bit. Probably a dearth of good roles for him these days. But on talent I'd put him up there. I also would have put Heath Ledger up there, alas... {sniff} and am a big fan of Ryan Gosling. Is Don Cheadle considered part of the same "generation"? If so, he ranks high on my list. I should do a list on my blog, just to get people arguing with me there.

Still, what's Norton's OPS+? It's gone down the last couple of years. ;-)

2008-12-04 13:19:43
213.   underdog
Why is Macier Izturis a better bet than DeJesus or Hu? Not saying he wouldn't be for one year, but after that... not sure. Who would people give up for JJ Hardy?
2008-12-04 13:20:01
214.   trainwreck
Gael Garcia Bernal and Ben Foster should be in the discussion.
2008-12-04 13:22:21
215.   cargill06
213 Well, you're talking about a top 5 or 6 SS in baseball in his prime in arb years. I'm sure it'd be a king's ransom.
2008-12-04 13:22:22
216.   mwhite06
202 I've heard that the Tigers would be willing to trade Mags. I doubt Migs is available though.
2008-12-04 13:23:20
217.   ToyCannon
Marvel has done a great job of getting great actors to make their movies since they became their own studio. When Terrance Howard bowed out of Iron Man II they quickly replaced him with Don Cheadle. It will be curious to see who they get for Thor and Captain America.

I guess the big plus they have going for them is the studio they purchased so that all of the work will be done in Southern California and none of the people involved have to travel.

2008-12-04 13:23:57
218.   trainwreck
217
Kevin McKidd from Rome is going to be Thor.

Kenneth Branagh is directing.

2008-12-04 13:24:52
219.   Jason in Canada
Freshly cut, right before my eyes, In-n-out fries are horrible?

AGAHST!!

They are one of 4 things I miss desperately about So. Cal. Right behind the double-double, my mom and visits to Chavez Ravine.

2008-12-04 13:25:19
220.   Eric Stephen
When discussing best actors of this generation, or even best humans, let's not forget Weird Al Yankovic owned the screen in UHF, and his minute or so in the Naked Gun was epic.
2008-12-04 13:25:58
221.   trainwreck
They are re-making everything! Announced a Romancing the Stone remake, an Arthur remake starring Russell Brand, and they are remaking the Rowdy Roddy Piper classic They Live.
2008-12-04 13:26:38
222.   Eric Stephen
218
Kenneth Branagh is directing

"Where art Thor?"

2008-12-04 13:27:17
223.   Eric Enders
I find Ben Foster impossibly annoying. Was his bizarre scenery chewing in 3:10 to Yuma really supposed to be considered good acting?
2008-12-04 13:27:45
224.   Jacob Burch
A) I've never understood to this day why Rob Neyer, a guy I usually like, put Melky Cabrera on his Top 50 future players list. Most baffling thing ever.
B) I actually really like In-N-Out fries, but to each their own. Father's Office wins on the burger+fry combo, though.
2008-12-04 13:27:47
225.   ToyCannon
218
I knew Branagh was directing but I must have missed the pick of McKidd. Thanks for the info.
2008-12-04 13:28:14
226.   D4P
They are re-making everything!

Don't get me started.

2008-12-04 13:30:08
227.   ToyCannon
223
I thought he was great in that movie.
2008-12-04 13:30:34
228.   Jacob Burch
Other than movies coming up/already out that I still need to see (Gran Torino, Milk--saw Slumdog last weekend and loved it), I look forward to Y: The Last Man and Scott Pilgrim (both graphic novel adapts.) the most. And pray they don't screw them up.

Y would have such an appeal on either TV or film if done properly.

2008-12-04 13:31:11
229.   Eric Enders
The remake that annoys me right now is "The Day the Earth Stood Still." I re-watched the original on the big screen a few months ago and it's still as good as ever. They should have just re-released that one instead of blaspheming it.
[/grouchy old fart rant]
2008-12-04 13:32:13
230.   trainwreck
I have no idea why Keanu Reeves gets cast in movies. Not like he is a bankable star.
2008-12-04 13:32:44
231.   Eric Enders
I admit my dislike for Foster is probably irrational and has quite a bit to do with the characters he plays. Even though it's been off the air for a while I still harbor a desire to punch his "Six Feet Under" character in the face.
2008-12-04 13:33:07
232.   ToyCannon
218
I think you are jumping the gun on McKidd. I don't see anything that says he's Thor other then himself touting that he's under consideration.
2008-12-04 13:35:03
233.   Jacob Burch
231 I always thought the point of Foster's character in 6FU was to want to punch him, and thought he did a great job of it.
2008-12-04 13:35:50
234.   Tripon
Joe Torre has spoken with Andy Pettitte, the Dodgers' manager confirmed to Newsday, but doesn't foresee Pettitte heading West for a reunion with his former manager.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sppettitte1205,0,5277770.story

2008-12-04 13:36:05
235.   trainwreck
232
IMDB said it was done, but yeah I see that most articles say he is in contention.
2008-12-04 13:36:21
236.   Eric Enders
224 Entering the 2006 season, Cabrera was a guy who had just put up a .360 OPB at age 21 in a pitcher's park. A guy like that who could play center field should have been on everybody's future star list.

2007 and '08 have now pretty much proven that age 21 season to be a fluke, though.

2008-12-04 13:38:28
237.   JoeyP
223- I never even knew that was him until you mentioned it. I remember him from his days on Flash Forward ~ which was an ok disney show. That show also guest starred Ryan Gosling a couple times.
2008-12-04 13:39:16
238.   Lexinthedena
221 Re-making 'They Live'?

Say it aint so Joe! say it ain't so!

The on-screen chemistry between Rowdy Roddy and Keith David will never be replicated. NEVER!

2008-12-04 13:39:36
239.   Eric Enders
233 In that case, it was great acting. ;)

I'm trying to think of a 6FU character who didn't at least occasionally give one the desire to punch them in the face. I can come up with Maya and Rabbi Ari and that's about it.

2008-12-04 13:39:58
240.   Tripon
213 Why is Macier Izturis a better bet than DeJesus or Hu? Not saying he wouldn't be for one year, but after that... not sure. Who would people give up for JJ Hardy?

Macier Izturis wouldn't be a better bet than Hu or DeJesus, but he would definitely be better than Orlando Cabrera. And Izturis only has two years of arbitration left. Worst case, Izturis is hurt, gets non tender in the next off season, and the Dodgers waste a couple of million and a low prospect. But the award is league average production from a major league SS. And it prevents us from offering a bad deal to Cabrera which is the real award.

2008-12-04 13:40:48
241.   ToyCannon
Other then Arod are there any Yankee's that we would want that played for Torre right now if we discount kids like Joba and Hughes?

Randy Johnson and ...

2008-12-04 13:40:53
242.   Tripon
Movies that should be remade:

ALIVE!

I would pay to see non-zombiefied people eating each other.

2008-12-04 13:41:41
243.   Tripon
241 Mike Mussina.
2008-12-04 13:41:45
244.   Jacob Burch
236 I still don't think one season where he had one good-not-great stat--which was offset by the 2007 season (Neyer's article was written in early 2008) combined with defense was good enough to put him a head of a lot of other people.
2008-12-04 13:42:19
245.   trainwreck
242
They are re-making Cannibal Holocaust. That can fill your lust.
2008-12-04 13:42:41
246.   ToyCannon
239
True they were maddening characters but had just enough humanity that I kept watching and enjoying. All flawed but not overkill, I'm wondering if I missed the Ben Foster season because I'm drawing a blank.
2008-12-04 13:43:10
247.   Jacob Burch
239 I agree it was great acting. Mr.Stephen was the one griping.

And still had a grizzly playoff beard with subpar decisions in sport teams!

2008-12-04 13:43:21
248.   Eric Enders
242 There was a new documentary about that incident released in theaters this year.
2008-12-04 13:43:29
249.   ToyCannon
241
Really? What if you get 2007 Mussina and not 2008 Mussina?
2008-12-04 13:44:33
250.   Eric Enders
241 Bobby Abreu. ARod.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-12-04 13:44:33
251.   Jacob Burch
236 Claire's "Is he gay" art-school love interest while she attended "LA Arts" or whatever Cal-Arts was named in the show.

I realize my Hoffman Eyes comment may be classified in Jon's warning, so I apologize if it was taken negatively--I just like bringing up the Closer's eye motif whenever I can.

2008-12-04 13:44:35
252.   ToyCannon
244
I agree, it was a terrible call. No one thought he was any good except Yankee fans.
2008-12-04 13:44:55
253.   Marty
I can't for the life of me remember the Ben Foster character in six feet under.
2008-12-04 13:46:23
254.   Eric Stephen
241
Giambi wouldn't be a bad choice as the first LH bat off the bench, assuming it is for $2m or less.
2008-12-04 13:46:30
255.   ToyCannon
250
I did ask "other then Arod". I like Abreu's numbers but everyone keeps telling me he's one of the worse fielding outfielders in baseball and with his declining offensive skills, I'm not sure he'd be worth his salary demands.
2008-12-04 13:48:07
256.   Eric Stephen
247
You keep score like a girl.
2008-12-04 13:48:16
257.   ToyCannon
254
I expected you to be a little more realistic. You are Eric Stephen after all and have a reputation.
2008-12-04 13:48:17
258.   Eric Enders
246 , 253 : http://tinyurl.com/5ue7yu
2008-12-04 13:48:26
259.   JoeyP
Or starting at 1st base ;)
2008-12-04 13:49:17
260.   ToyCannon
253
Maybe we missed the same season.
2008-12-04 13:49:22
261.   jumanjifan01
128 Sort of along the same lines as your question, why don't we ever hear anything about possibly converting Cory Wade to starter?

Maybe I'm way off base here, but he strikes me as a pitcher who would be able to make the switch. Good breaking ball, good pitchability.

He'd have to be stretched out like any young pitcher, but him, Jmac, and Kershaw seem like a pretty good trio to rotate and occupy 2 rotation spots IMO.

Can anyone set me straight on why this is a bad idea? Too out of the box?

2008-12-04 13:50:53
262.   Jacob Burch
258 Links are much more powerful than my run-on-adjective description. Curses!

I love 6FU to death and consider it my favorite show, start to finish. But recent quarter-life crises means I won't be rewatching anything with such a focus on death for a while.

256 Given what I remember about Molly's tales on beach-ball-counting scorebook ways, I take that as a compliment! I am impervious!

2008-12-04 13:50:59
263.   Eric Stephen
257
Where is the market for Giambi? He strikes me as a guy who isn't going to find many takers.

Besides, I almost said Chuck Knoblauch. :)

2008-12-04 13:51:45
264.   ToyCannon
258
Oh, now I remember. Maybe that is why he was so testosterone driven in Yuma?
2008-12-04 13:51:50
265.   trainwreck
263
A return to Oakland.
2008-12-04 13:52:17
266.   Kevin Lewis
I like Fat Burgers combo the best, but the prices went way up
2008-12-04 13:52:51
267.   Eric Enders
261 I don't really know, but one possibility is that his stuff wouldn't be good enough. Everyone loses at least 2-3 mph on their fastball upon moving from the pen to the rotation. And as it stands now, Wade's fastball is just barely fast enough to keep hitters honest.

He might turn into just another junkballer with an 86 mph fastball and then we've transformed a good reliever into a useless starter.

This is total speculation of course.

2008-12-04 13:55:24
268.   trainwreck
267
The battle commences tonight! Can the Bruins return the favor to the Longhorns?
2008-12-04 13:55:27
269.   Jacob Burch
Fatburger has started making me sick, but I still give in now and then.

I can't decide if I like the normal or sweet potato fries better at Father's Office. But either with that burger and a Duvel or Hoegaarden and I am set.

2008-12-04 13:56:12
270.   ToyCannon
263
I don't know but I'm' sure it will all be centered around the AL. The man can still hit(130OPS+) and last I looked the AL was littered with lousy DH including the team to the South unless Vlady takes to the role full time.
2008-12-04 13:56:28
271.   Lexinthedena
261

He certainly has the command to be a good starter, but I don't know if he has the repertoire.

2008-12-04 13:57:13
272.   Tripon
M's fans were begging for Melky Cabrera for Washburn. But that's because Washburn is a worse player over Cabrera.
2008-12-04 13:59:46
273.   Big Game
202 The Tigers are looking for a closer...But I doubt they'd give up Cabrera for one. If they begin to hemmorage ticket sales thanks to the big three killing everyone's baby, they'll likely shed Sheffield and Magglio's contracts.
2008-12-04 14:00:33
274.   ToyCannon
Reed is probably a better player then Melky. Fans always want what someone else has.
2008-12-04 14:00:46
275.   Disabled List
Add me to the "underwhelmed" list re: In-N-Out fries. Give me Tommy's any day.
2008-12-04 14:02:12
276.   Lexinthedena
I love IN-N-Out fries, and I think Tommy's is disgusting in every way.
2008-12-04 14:05:03
277.   DaDoughboy
According to the AP, the Dodgers:

"apparently want the Pirates to pick up a substantial share of Wilson's salary.."

Substantial = all of it?

2008-12-04 14:05:45
278.   Disabled List
Sometimes I think In-N-Out fans are more cult-like than Mac users.

Good burgers, overrated fries. Nothing more, nothing less.

2008-12-04 14:05:49
279.   Sam DC
Remake Thoughts!

My question is why we need a remake of Fame.

2008-12-04 14:06:30
280.   underdog
I'm surprised Eric S didn't also bring up Ben Foster's fine turn in Freaks and Geeks as the mentally disabled kid who loves Three's Company, since I'm sure Eric has now watched F&G several times over. ;-)

But honestly, while he seems like a good actor, he hasn't done enough film work for me to judge him yet...

In addition to the others already mentioned, I think Iron Man himself, Robert Downey Jr has to be mentioned, especially when you combine IM with Tropic Thunder from this past year, Scanner Darkly from not too long ago and so on. Dude's crazy but pretty amazing.

2008-12-04 14:08:30
281.   DaDoughboy
279.
because according to Fame's theme song, it's 'gonna live forever'!!
2008-12-04 14:08:35
282.   Eric Enders
268 Texas is still trying to figure some personnel things out, particularly with its two best players. A.J. Abrams, who is really a 2-guard, thinks he's a point guard, while Damion James, whose best position is power forward, is trying to become a jump-shooting three man. Both players feel they need to switch positions to improve their future NBA status.

Rick Barnes has been tolerant of these experiments so far but I hope it ends tonight. If it does, I think Texas will come out on top. The guard play is a little weak but the Longhorns have an incredible amount of skills and depth in the frontcourt.

2008-12-04 14:09:06
283.   underdog
Speaking of Mac users... anyone catch the Simpsons Mac satire the other night? (MyPod, etc. And Steve Jobs and Apple HQ was under the sea.) Made me chuckle, anyway.

--

If I'm going to do a remake of anything, it would have to be a movie that was kind of crummy the first time because of budget constraints and not much talent but had a good story, and isn't beloved by millions. And it certainly wouldn't be Fame.

--

I wonder if I'm the only one here who kinda likes Jack Wilson? Not that I'd want to give up much for him, mind.

2008-12-04 14:10:01
284.   scareduck
219 - frozen fries fry better. It really is that simple.
2008-12-04 14:10:21
285.   trainwreck
282
Well James is going to be guarded by Shipp supposedly, so he has a good chance to get back on track tonight.
2008-12-04 14:12:51
286.   trainwreck
I hate most re-makes, but I really hate the ones that are not even different from original. What is the point of re-making it?!!

I am looking at you, Gus Van Sant.

2008-12-04 14:14:50
287.   D4P
What is the point of re-making it?!!

Making money off the gullible public.

2008-12-04 14:17:29
288.   Harold M Johnson
269 Next time give Orval a try. Exactly the sweet spot between the other two beers you mentioned.
2008-12-04 14:25:36
289.   Sam DC
286 Next up, I'm gonna need explain to me why we needed an Omen remake.
2008-12-04 14:26:18
290.   Jon Weisman
In-N-Out debates may soon have to go the way of Simpsons quoting. Does no one else see this as a recurring feature that's played, Jerry, played?

The burgers are great. The fries are good. What else you got?

2008-12-04 14:31:11
291.   Sam DC
The Fly -- now there's a remake that took an old idea and processed it through changes in science and the world into a valuable new thing.
2008-12-04 14:33:43
292.   underdog
286 Psycho was utterly pointless, I'd agree, but it was also more of an art film than anything else -- it almost works better if it was an installation in a museum somewhere. It certainly didn't make any money.

How about this as a pointless remake? (Though people on imdb seem to inexplicably like it.) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084994/

2008-12-04 14:34:56
293.   underdog
Awww... (From MLBTR:)
Sweeney may retire:
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick talked to Mark Sweeney's agent Barry Axelrod, who says his client will probably only play next year if a Major League deal is offered. Sweeney, 39, hit .130/.250/.163 in 108 plate appearances for the Dodgers while earning $600K plus incentives.
2008-12-04 14:35:16
294.   Bob Timmermann
292
I remember when NBC showed that.

Humphrey Bogart on one hand.
David Soul on the other.

Hmmm....

2008-12-04 14:35:47
295.   Icaros
How do people feel about the Jack Nicholson vs. Rick Moranis Little Shop of Horrors? Both lame?
2008-12-04 14:37:02
296.   Eric Enders
There are actually quite a few good remakes, but we don't think of them as remakes because they become entrenched in our minds as the definitive version. For example, the Bogart version of The Maltese Falcon was a remake.
2008-12-04 14:37:41
297.   D4P
Sweeney, 39, hit .130/.250/.163 in 108 plate appearances for the Dodgers while earning $600K plus incentives

Sweeney...earned...incentives...?

Must...kill...self...Or...wait...must...kill...Ned...

2008-12-04 14:37:47
298.   Sam DC
292 Wow. I'm as much a Scatman Crothers fan as the next guy but . . .
2008-12-04 14:38:16
299.   Harold M Johnson
The best recent remake was probably The Departed. I loved the original and have grown to really like The Departed with repeated viewings on HBO
2008-12-04 14:38:17
300.   Sam DC
296 I put The Thing in this category. But perhaps unfairly.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-12-04 14:40:18
301.   kinbote
293 Where have you gone, Mark Sweeney-o?
A blogosphere turns its lonely eyes to you.
2008-12-04 14:40:54
302.   D4P
Seriously: what incentive standard could Sweeney possibly have exceeded? And given how low it must have been, why on earth would a team pay someone anything extra beyond salary for exceeding it?
2008-12-04 14:42:26
303.   regfairfield
He got $125,000 for being on the opening day roster. I'm assuming he didn't get any of his performance bonuses.
2008-12-04 14:42:55
304.   Icaros
302

He didn't forget how many outs there were one time last season. Give the man a break.

2008-12-04 14:43:08
305.   Andrew Shimmin
MLB4U says Sweeney earned $125k by virtue of having been on the opening day roster. The other incentives aren't listed.
2008-12-04 14:43:17
306.   trainwreck
I am one of the few that does not think the Departed was that good.
2008-12-04 14:43:25
307.   mintxcore
302 Plate appearances? (i fear "at bat" is a bit too generous in his case...)
2008-12-04 14:43:27
308.   Eric Stephen
I'm looking forward to Pacquiao v. De La Hoya Saturday. I was going to root for Manny Pacquiao but I saw him wear a Celtics t-shirt on one of the 24/7 episodes on HBO. I'm torn now.
2008-12-04 14:43:28
309.   Andrew Shimmin
D'oh.
2008-12-04 14:43:36
310.   Humma Kavula
295 There are many words that could be used to describe the musical "Little Shop of Horrors," but "lame" is not one of them.

"Somewhere That's Green" has a claim on best comedy song ever written. Just saying: when we have Comedy Song Thoughts, "Somewhere That's Green" belongs in the discussion.

2008-12-04 14:44:08
311.   Tripon
According to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick, Angels pitched Jon Garland "is leaning toward declining the Angels' salary arbitration offer by Sunday's deadline." Garland believes he can get more on the open market, according to Crasnick's source. If Garland leaves, the Angels will receive a supplemental draft pick.

He's fooling himself.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-04 14:44:28
312.   trainwreck
Sam DC seems to like all the same well-made gory horror movies that I like.
2008-12-04 14:44:51
313.   Bob Timmermann
One of the incentives listed in news reports about Sweeney's contract was making the opening day roster.

It's not unlike getting a 400 on one's SATs by just showing up.

2008-12-04 14:46:09
314.   Jon Weisman
First look at the Grammy Museum

http://franklinavenue.blogspot.com/2008/12/first-look-at-grammy-museum.html

2008-12-04 14:46:47
315.   underdog
I have a feeling his contract is listed as the
"amount plus incentives" sort of generically; the only incentive there's any evidence he actually earned and was paid for was the opening day roster one.

296 True, I once saw some of that original Maltese Falcon and it's quite dull and very dated. Huston + Bogart = success.

Other good remakes: Invasion of the Body Snatchers (still one of my fave horror films) and The Thing.

2008-12-04 14:48:11
316.   Bob Timmermann
314
After the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame fiasco, I'm not setting foot in the Grammy Museum.
2008-12-04 14:48:32
317.   cargill06
283 Last year Wilson OPS+ of 77 our shortstops last year OPS+ 77. Wilson plays remarkable defense so I guess it could be an upgrade. Maybe he still has one of those random 100 OPS+ seasons in him.

Jack Wilson is like an cheesy horror film. After a long battle, we were finally safe to assume it was dead with the trade to Det. Just when we think it's safe and sound they cut to a picture of Wilson on the ground dead, and than you see his eye peak open.

2008-12-04 14:49:37
318.   ToyCannon
I don't mind remake at all. At worse it gets the original some publicity and at best it is entertaining. The idea is to entertain while making some money, films are not holy grails never to be touched. Can't tell you the number of originals I've rented after seeing a remake.

Robert Downy Junior is and has always been one of our top actors.

2008-12-04 14:49:38
319.   Icaros
310

I like Mr. Garrison's, "It's Easy, Mmm-kay."

2008-12-04 14:49:45
320.   Eric Enders
Perhaps Sweeney had a $100,000 bonus clause if he went all year without ending any games on baserunning blunders.
2008-12-04 14:50:39
321.   Eric Enders
Ah, I see that Icaros already beat me to that joke.
2008-12-04 14:51:39
322.   Icaros
320

Been there, done that. 304

2008-12-04 14:52:04
323.   D4P
Perhaps Sweeney had a $100,000 bonus clause if he went all year without ending any games on baserunning blunders

Which would explain his "never get on base in the first place" strategy.

2008-12-04 14:52:18
324.   regfairfield
I'm also pretty sure that the only incentive clauses you can have are awards or plate appearance based so there's actually a chance he might have got that one too.
2008-12-04 14:53:25
325.   Jason in Canada
284 That certainly is one opinion! :)

290 It is kind of silly when we debate matters of taste heh?

2008-12-04 14:55:44
326.   underdog
Sweeney's incentive = "Slug more than .200"
2008-12-04 14:57:59
327.   Humma Kavula
319 Oh, all the songs in that movie are brilliant.

Did you watch the Colbert Christmas special? The comedy songs were written by that show's head writer and Adam Schlessinger, the Fountains of Wayne guy. They are, for the most part, brilliant. Especially good was the Willie Nelson song. Stephen hallucinates that Willie is the "fourth wise man" come to visit Baby Jesus....

But do not spurn my gift completely
Yea, ye three wise men, please demur
I bring the plant that smokes more sweetly
Than either frankincense or myrrh

That's fine rhymin'.

2008-12-04 14:58:50
328.   Disabled List
306 The Departed is even more overrated than In-N-Out's fries. I can name 10 movies by Scorsese alone that are better:

GoodFellas
Casino
Mean Streets
Taxi Driver
Raging Bull
Last Temptation of Christ
King of Comedy
Bringing Out the Dead (very underrated)
Cape Fear (a well-done remake)
Gangs of New York, or Marty's segment from New York Stories

(Thank you, Sporcle)

2008-12-04 15:00:09
329.   underdog
Quick quiz --
Who said this?

"He is a complete player on both sides of the ball, a clutch performer and a winner," ____ said in a statement ___ announcing the deal. "He has the hardware to show it with the awards he has garnered and a World Series ring. We look forward to seeing him in a ___ uniform."

2008-12-04 15:01:34
330.   ToyCannon
Hard to believe that man had 5 straight years of a plus 700 OPS and then caved in last year. I'd like to say it was a BABIP problem but even normalized his average only climbs from .130 to .166.
2008-12-04 15:02:19
331.   Humma Kavula
328 Is The Departed overrated because it won Best Picture? If so, then, okay.

But The Departed is a fine gangster pic. And the Academy was dying to give Scorsese an Oscar after spurning his two best movies (Ordinary People is pretty good, but c'mon, Dances with Wolves?).

If, say, Goodfellas had won Best Pic/Best Director, as it should have, and then everything that happened to The Departed could still have happened except the Oscar win, would it still be overrated?

2008-12-04 15:02:40
332.   Eric Stephen
329
Sabean RE: Renteria?
2008-12-04 15:02:57
333.   trainwreck
I like the songs in Team America better than South Park movie.
2008-12-04 15:03:38
334.   Harold M Johnson
328 Yes, but isn't that like saying Pujols' 2002 season sucked, and you can name 6 better seasons he's had? :)

I loved Infernal Affairs and was initially disappointed with The Departed, but it really grew on me. I'd put it above Bringing out the Dead (which, again, I liked) and Gangs of New York.

2008-12-04 15:03:51
335.   underdog
332 Yes sir! Sabean on his prize signing.
2008-12-04 15:07:54
336.   jumanjifan01
267 , 271

I guess a loss of velocity is a possibility if Wade were made into a starter. Maybe it's just because the two guys who I think of first when I think of starter vs. bullpen velocity (pacing yourself vs. airing it out) are Gagne and Billingsley, but for some reason I could see it being that there's a greater discrepancy in a flamethrower like Bills airing it out vs. pacing himself than there would be with a control guy like Wade.

Billingsley is a big strong dude, max effort, and so of course when he only has to make a few pitches he can light up the radar gun. Wade on the other hand is long and lean, and I'm willing to bet he could throw harder than 88-90 if he wanted to (I actually don't remember what kind of velocity Wade did show this past season but those numbers sound right to me).

It's just something that I get a sense of when I watch Wade pitch. I don't get the sense that if he were asked to throw 6 innings in a single outing he'd be out of breath, barely able to muster 84-86. Maybe a little dip, say 87-89, and then a little more as the season wore on. It doesn't seem like he's using a ton of energy when he throws his fastball.

But I am in the pure speculation boat as well, just glad to generate some discussion on this idea.

2008-12-04 15:08:03
337.   Eric Enders
Hey Jon, any word on Springsteen's chances of winning the Oscar this year?
2008-12-04 15:09:45
338.   Icaros
I found all of the no-look text messaging in The Departed quite impressive.
2008-12-04 15:09:57
339.   Jason in Canada
It is definitely cause to evaluate one's mortality when you realize they are now filming "re-makes" of films that one could swear "we're only first released a few years ago..."
2008-12-04 15:10:40
340.   jumanjifan01
328

The Aviator

He really deserved to win Best Director in 2005

2008-12-04 15:11:03
341.   Icaros
Sad news about Rodney Rodgers. Seemed like the Lakers always left him open for threes, and he never missed.
2008-12-04 15:12:13
342.   DBrim
277

The McCourts - Inept, but they're saving us from themselves.

2008-12-04 15:13:44
343.   Branch Rickey
I just can't get excited over museums that aren't for art. I especially can't relate to the Rock N Roll HOF museum. It just feels like taking something so alive and showing it off in a way that is lifeless. Kinda like trying to enjoy sheet music instead of music. It's so out of context that it loses it's value. I didn't even enjoy the Baseball HOF and that seems like sacrilege. A Grammy Museum? That's about as appealing as a Knight Rider Museum.
2008-12-04 15:15:38
344.   Icaros
343

But what if there was a car that you could actually talk to? I remember they did that at Universal Studios when I was a pup.

2008-12-04 15:20:19
345.   Branch Rickey
You're right, that would be better. In fact, talking to a car in the parking lot of the Knight Rider museum might still be more appealing.
2008-12-04 15:26:33
346.   Jon Weisman
343 - I'm no fan of the Grammys let alone a Grammy museum, but I think your complaint is why they went the interactive route with the museum, from what I can tell.

337 - I think he's all but guaranteed a nomination. Anything more than that from me at this point would be more speculation than educated guess.

2008-12-04 15:27:47
347.   Jon Weisman
343 - You didn't enjoy Cooperstown?

Baseball is art. There - problem solved.

2008-12-04 15:27:51
348.   Icaros
Also, something D4P should appreciate, Rodgers, former NBA sixth man of the year and despite being financially set, has been working for a city public works dept. in North Carolina as a heavy machinery operator, simply because he wanted to.
2008-12-04 15:30:07
349.   D4P
348
Kinda along those lines, I saw the first non-black garbage collector today that I've ever seen in North Carolina.
2008-12-04 15:30:56
350.   Tripon
336 There were a couple of times where Wade 'threw' 91, 92 on the radar gun, but that might be more of a case of the radar gun being 'fast'.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-12-04 15:31:50
351.   Icaros
349

The garbage collectors in SF are like the cast of It's A Small World. I know because they come to my neighborhood seven days a week, literally.

2008-12-04 15:32:28
352.   underdog
Here's that sad Rogers story:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3744237

--

Btw, speaking of the NBA, I wonder if Oklahoma City is having any second thoughts about acquiring their team from Seattle?

2008-12-04 15:33:35
353.   Branch Rickey
346/347. No, my complaint (if that's what it is) is just that I don't enjoy ANY museum that displays relics of some other pursuit. I realize most people do. Baseball is art. But relics of it aren't. I can see enjoying Da Vinci's paintings but not a display of his brushes. Clearly a matter of taste and I'm clearly the odd man out on this one.
2008-12-04 15:34:31
354.   regfairfield
I for one am thrilled to go see the Starland Vocal Band exhibit.
2008-12-04 15:35:09
355.   Eric Enders
328 The Last Waltz!
2008-12-04 15:39:49
356.   Eric Enders
353 So I gather the Smithsonian doesn't do it for you either then.
2008-12-04 15:40:48
357.   bhsportsguy
353 I'll add this, I was thrilled to see the plaques, the other stuff, its okay.
2008-12-04 15:41:40
358.   Bob Timmermann
357
I think the dullest part of the Baseball Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame part. The museum is the good stuff.
2008-12-04 15:43:16
359.   milkshakeballa
Speaking of In &^ Out....

I went to the In & Out of the East coast today...

5 Guys Burgers and Fries...

WOW!!!! 5x better than In & out! Bigger burger...amazing toppings...and the fries....they got these cajun fries....omg......They just opened one up in Cerritos...you guys need to go!!! I honestly and debating if I should go back tonight and get one for dinner..

2008-12-04 15:45:16
360.   Branch Rickey
356. Actually never been. Funny, I've always thought I'd like to see it. But now that I've thought through my position, I should probably skip it!
2008-12-04 15:45:58
361.   Eric Enders
As usual, I agree with Bob. The plaques are boring and (until you get to 1990 or so) poorly written. The museum part is amazing.
2008-12-04 15:48:21
362.   bhsportsguy
361 Its the romantic in me, the first baseball book I ever owned was about the first 5 Hall of Famers.
2008-12-04 15:49:46
363.   Bob Timmermann
360
The Smithsonian Institution has art galleries as part of it. There is the Hirschhorn (modern art), Freer and Sackler, and the Portrait Gallery (which isn't on The Mall.) There is also the National Gallery of Art which is on the Mall, but not part of the Smithsonian.

I went to a lot of museums when I was in DC last time. I think I hit eight in one day.

2008-12-04 15:50:58
364.   DaDoughboy
Recent remake horror-in-the-making:

Karate Kid..dutifully titled: 'Untitled Karate Kid Remake' on IMDB. Starring none other than Will Smiths son Jaden.
http://www.variety.com/VR1117995614.html

2008-12-04 15:51:02
365.   Bob Timmermann
362
The romantic in me doesn't make me want to look at Honus Wagner's plaque though.
2008-12-04 15:51:32
366.   Icaros
To identify with Mr. Rickey, I will say that I found the exhibits at the Getty enormously dull. My favorite part was the garden area outside.
2008-12-04 15:52:17
367.   bhsportsguy
365 I knew I would pay for that comment.

363 What qualifies as a "museum visit?"

2008-12-04 15:52:27
368.   Branch Rickey
362. The first baseball book I ever owned was Frank Robinson's memoir (I'm sure ghost written) about his first year as a major league manager. Lots of stories about Eckersley, Manning, Lowenstein... I ate it up and it definitely shot me off on to fandom. Greatest book I ever read... until I was 11.
2008-12-04 15:53:59
369.   Tripon
364 Will Smith is so rich that he can afford to have his kid star in his very own movie.
2008-12-04 15:55:43
370.   Kevin Lewis
366

I agree with this completely. Actually the tour of the outside and description of how the Getty was built was the most enjoyable for me.

2008-12-04 15:55:50
371.   underdog
Brian Sabean, as reported in the San Jose Merc via MLBTR:

Offers for CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira seem unlikely, but Sabean refuses to rule them out. However, Sabean also says: "We're not out there swimming with the sharks. There are too many teams with more seemingly to offer financially than where we're at right now."

(He also seemed to dispute the Sanchez for Santu rumor tho not specifically.)

2008-12-04 15:56:59
372.   Eric Stephen
Finally, the USC-Oklahoma matchup I wanted to see, about to start on ESPN.

What's that? It's basketball? Never mind.

2008-12-04 15:57:05
373.   Eric Enders
My first baseball book was this one. I think I was three.

http://tinyurl.com/54wbr8

2008-12-04 15:57:07
374.   Kevin Lewis
364

I forgot that Hillary Swank starred in the other remake.

I will not be going to see the new one

2008-12-04 15:57:12
375.   bhsportsguy
368 Best baseball book I read growing up.

At least until the Abstracts started coming out.

And I didn't really read the "Baseball Encyclopedia."

http://tinyurl.com/67f4cb

2008-12-04 15:58:20
376.   Bob Timmermann
367
Walked in, looked around, saw stuff, picked up a flyer.
2008-12-04 15:58:37
377.   trainwreck
Would USC fans be sad if Sarkisian goes to Washington?
2008-12-04 15:58:54
378.   bhsportsguy
370 And you dreamed that someday Dodger Stadium will have a tram like they have at the Getty.
2008-12-04 15:59:12
379.   oshea2002
372 - we are going to get run out of the gym. I'd love to be wrong though. Would be nice to see SC and UCLA sweep this huge espn doubleheader.
2008-12-04 15:59:20
380.   Jon Weisman
366 - That's pretty much what everyone thinks of the Getty. The difference between the collection and the grounds is as stark as it comes.
2008-12-04 16:00:48
381.   Eric Stephen
I don't know if this is the first baseball book I ever read, but I clearly remember reading this:

http://tinyurl.com/5btlky

377
I won't shed a tear.

2008-12-04 16:01:01
382.   oshea2002
377 - Sad? I'm praying it happens. Bring back Carl Smith.
2008-12-04 16:01:40
383.   Tripon
377 Most likely a shrug. Although it'll be the end of the 'Norm Chow' offense for USC.
2008-12-04 16:05:40
384.   trainwreck
Well USC is off to a fast start.
2008-12-04 16:06:28
385.   DaDoughboy
Welcome back ye of the semi-mullet..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3745431

2008-12-04 16:07:46
386.   trainwreck
Boomer Sooner is the most annoying fight song.
2008-12-04 16:12:26
387.   Bob Timmermann
386
It's not even in the Top 5.

And I'm going to be hearing "Tribute to Troy" approximately 35 times Saturday and "Fight On" about 37 times.

2008-12-04 16:14:29
388.   Bob Timmermann
387
Let's just say I'm not going to "Bear Down" for anyone.
2008-12-04 16:16:12
389.   Eric Stephen
Blake Griffin (I don't think he's related to Peter) is averaging 19 rebounds per game? Wow.
2008-12-04 16:18:58
390.   DBrim
359 - I wouldn't say they're of the "east coast", because there are none to be found up here in New England.

I'm looking forward to an In N Out Burger when I come home to LA in a couple of weeks... first time since January 1st! The glory of In N Out did fade when I developed my dairy allergy, though.

2008-12-04 16:19:01
391.   Tripon
mgibson (DC): Have you given up on Chin-Lung Hu?

Joe Sheehan: Not defensively. He's the real deal. Offensively...the power we thought was there probably isn't, and I think you're now looking at a .270/.320/.350 guy. That can play, I think, with his glove, but he has to bat eighth and his down years will be really down.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=553

2008-12-04 16:20:24
392.   bhsportsguy
Apparently Tony Jackson is not talking to anyone in Pittsburgh.

http://blogs.dailynews.com/dodgers/2008/12/dodgers-are-not.html

2008-12-04 16:22:22
393.   Eric Stephen
392
He did have a post earlier linking to a story from the Pittsburgh AP writer about the Wilson interest. Sounds like TH did some more digging.
2008-12-04 16:23:02
394.   Marty
ok, I missed remake thoughts. The thing that bothered me the most about The Departed is that every time Leo got a text message his phone vibrated. Except when he was following Damon and the they needed an excuse for Damon to realize he was being followed.

I don't mean to bash Scorscese but Goodfellas, while being very good, wasn't even the best gangster movie of that year. Give me Miller's Crossing.

2008-12-04 16:26:21
395.   Kevin Lewis
I just felt like The Departed offered nothing new to the genre. The acting was great, but it was a been there done that feel for me.
2008-12-04 16:26:49
396.   Tripon
So while he might be a good candidate to replace Rafael Furcal at his position, the Dodgers would probably need someone else to lead off.

Hey, Juan Pierre's still on the roster.

http://blogs.dailynews.com/dodgers/

I kid, I kid.

2008-12-04 16:28:07
397.   CajunDodger
394
Thank you for mentioning the Coens' most underrated film.

Gabriel Byrne was awesome in that...

2008-12-04 16:29:01
398.   DBrim
396 - Matt Kemp would need to grow into the role, for sure, but I think he'd make a competent lead off man. He's probably the best suited for the role out of anybody we have currently.
2008-12-04 16:29:40
399.   CajunDodger
396
I see Kemp in the leadoff next season with Hu at short...and about an $85 million payroll.
2008-12-04 16:31:43
400.   Bob Timmermann
394
Cue Greg Brock and his love for "The Hudsucker Proxy" in 3... 2...
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-12-04 16:32:33
401.   oshea2002
At least with Tribute to Troy, it isn't played after every single play. Boomer Sooner is played after every play, it's the only song their band knows.
2008-12-04 16:33:22
402.   Tripon
In response to New York Post report that Cuttino Mobley could be about to retire due to his heart condition, Alan Hahn of Newsday writes that a retirement announcement is not imminent.

Wow.

http://www.rotoworld.com/

2008-12-04 16:33:28
403.   Eric Enders
387 Oh, yes it is.

Perhaps my favorite thing about Logan White is how he's kept so many great talents away from the scummier schools in the Big 12. He stole Matt Kemp away from Oklahoma, James Loney away from Baylor, Scott Elbert away from Missouri, and Clayton Kershaw away from Texas A&M.

2008-12-04 16:34:05
404.   Tripon
398 399 I want to try out Ethier in the lead off role. If he can bat 2nd, there isn't any reason why he can't lead off.
2008-12-04 16:34:32
405.   Bluebleeder87
395

So I wasn't the only one to think it was mah...

A friend loaned me "The Hammer" is that any good?

2008-12-04 16:34:45
406.   Tripon
403 I assume scummier schools = NOT TEXAS.
2008-12-04 16:36:13
407.   Bluebleeder87
404

Oh man...

2008-12-04 16:36:45
408.   Kevin Lewis
405

I felt that way. I appreciated the acting, but I definitely felt that way too.

2008-12-04 16:37:17
409.   Eric Enders
406 Well, sure, but there are a lot of schools that are not too bad. Actually Missouri's probably one of them. The three really slimy schools are Baylor, ATM, and Oklahoma.
2008-12-04 16:37:48
410.   CajunDodger
404
I am unsure of the statistical studies on this, but isn't a team better served when they have at least a little speed at the top of the lineup...or at least a savvy baserunner who can go from 1st to 3rd regularly.
2008-12-04 16:38:43
411.   Tripon
407 Hey, it was just a thought! If the A's can try out Jeremy Giambi as a lead off hitters for a couple of games, we can try out Ethier in the lead off position.

Besides, you only lead off once, and in the later innings, a PH is usually hitting in front of the lead off hitter.

2008-12-04 16:40:27
412.   Tripon
410 Ethier has average speed, and can just flat out hit. And he's fast enough to stretch a single into a double at times.
2008-12-04 16:43:26
413.   trainwreck
This NFL pre-game show is beyond depressing if you are a Raider fan.
2008-12-04 16:43:35
414.   68elcamino427
Thanks for the link to th 'Gods.
Hilarious - and the first real good laugh I've had in a while.
2008-12-04 16:45:57
415.   underdog
405 The Hammer was better than I expected, which wasn't much. Not a huge Corrola fan but he's likable in it, it's a likable little movie with some good wit and heart. Nothing great...

Now The Hebrew Hammer, there was a movie! Perfect for the holiday season.

2008-12-04 16:50:21
416.   silverwidow
DeJesus should leadoff in 2010.

DeJesus SS
Ethier RF
Martin C
Loney 1B
Kemp CF
Lambo LF
DeWitt 3B
Hu 2B

2008-12-04 16:51:10
417.   silverwidow
416 Hu and DeJesus could also flip-flop positions.
2008-12-04 16:52:21
418.   trainwreck
Tim Lincecum will be on the cover of MLB2K9.
2008-12-04 16:53:02
419.   DBrim
404 - I'd be concerned about his speed, as well, but he's a smarter baserunner than Kemp is, in my eyes (one unfortunate triple-to-be notwithstanding).
2008-12-04 16:53:06
420.   Tripon
417 416 Serious question, what lets a guy switch from being the 8th hitter to a lead off guy?
2008-12-04 16:53:39
421.   fanerman
418 The SF Chronicle had a story yesterday of him doing motion capture for that game. I think.
2008-12-04 16:54:19
422.   Tripon
Is there a MLB2K9 curse, like the Madden curse?
2008-12-04 16:54:33
423.   fanerman
420 I think he means SS/2B, not 8th/1st.
2008-12-04 16:55:35
424.   silverwidow
423 Correct. If Hu is the better SS, that's where he should play.
2008-12-04 16:55:57
425.   Eric Stephen
420
I thought he meant switch defensive positions.
2008-12-04 16:56:47
426.   Tripon
423 424 425 Ah.
2008-12-04 16:56:52
427.   DBrim
422
2K4: Giambi
2K5: Jeter
2K6: Jeter
2K7: Jeter
2K8: Reyes

You be the judge.

2008-12-04 17:02:23
428.   kinbote
Hu's on first?
2008-12-04 17:04:41
429.   DaDoughboy
416.
I like it...but would swap Ethier/Kemp. 5 spot has been very comfy for Dre (.337/.413/125Ops+)..
2008-12-04 17:04:50
430.   Tripon
I don't think Hu's going to be on first that much next year.
2008-12-04 17:14:48
431.   Icaros
Glad to hear others agree with me on the Getty. I mean, one of the exhibits when I was there was a room full of blueprints. Have they brought in the spreadsheet exhibit yet?
2008-12-04 17:23:34
432.   Bob Timmermann
431
I guess you wouldn't be interested in the map exhibition in the art gallery at the Central Library.
2008-12-04 17:26:21
433.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Paul Benedict.
2008-12-04 17:28:50
434.   D4P
Speaking of museums:

We're planning to swing by the Louvre, Orangerie, Orsay, Rodin, Picasso, and Pompidou next week when we visit Paris. It'll be my first time in Europe.

2008-12-04 17:29:55
435.   Jon Weisman
Congrats. Musee D'Orsay, Rodin and Picasso are my favorites from that group.
2008-12-04 17:30:26
436.   Jim Hitchcock
433 Hmmm, I just watched most of Jeremiah Johnson the other night, but I missed the Reverend Lundquist part.
2008-12-04 17:30:56
437.   Jon Weisman
433 - Heaven no longer has to wait for the wrong Guffman.
2008-12-04 17:32:00
438.   trainwreck
What nutcase at the NFL office thought putting the Raiders on national television was a good idea?
2008-12-04 17:32:09
439.   El Lay Dave
329 Sabean is the same answer to my unanswered "quick quiz", comment 159 in the last topic; a quote regarding signing Howry.
https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1182603.html
2008-12-04 17:34:17
440.   D4P
435
Orsay seems to be the consensus #1. I tend to get fatigued pretty quickly in museums, so we'll have to see how it goes.
2008-12-04 17:37:08
441.   El Lay Dave
Really late on "Little Shop of Horrors": in addition to fine comedy songs, you can't lose with the late Levi Stubbs singing the Audrey II part.

On remake thoughts: plays are re-staged all the time so I don't see any reason why there should be a blanket reason against attempting film remakes, though I agree one should bring something new to the screen for a remake.

2008-12-04 17:37:49
442.   Sam DC
(Washington Capitals Thoughts interlude)

I guess being tied 2-2 after taking 5 penalties in the first two periods isn't so bad.

I think that means playing a quarter of the minutes short handed (less time you had an advantage yourself, I guess).

Oh wait, there's number 6 with 10 seconds left in the period . . .

2008-12-04 17:40:07
443.   underdog
439 Heh. Nice. It's funny how sometimes it could also be Colletti saying those things, two peas in a pod, though Sabean is even more consistently, blatantly old school and cookie cutter in his responses.

438 If they could at least knock Rivers on his backside a few times tonight, that will make me happy at least.

Speaking of being knocked on one's backside, have to get ready for nighttime soccer.

2008-12-04 17:48:53
444.   oshea2002
Ejection aside, we are getting destroyed by the refs tonight. Blake Griffin is getting MJ type love from the refs.
2008-12-04 17:48:57
445.   trainwreck
443
You are going to freeze.
2008-12-04 17:54:30
446.   trainwreck
It is like I am looking into the future and watching the USC/UCLA game this weekend.
2008-12-04 17:55:55
447.   Sam DC
441 Certainly it boils down in the end to whether your remake is good and has some sort of value beyond calling to mind an earlier great thing.

But I don't think the restaging of plays adds that much because, obviously, with a play, you sort of need to restage it. I can't just blink and be there to see James Earl Jones in Fences.

But the Twelve Angry Men film with Henry Fonda was pretty special. Since I can just watch that, seems like you ought to have a reason to remake more than, "I can do that too."

2008-12-04 17:56:52
448.   bhsportsguy
434 I doubt the winter meetings will be big news in Paris.

Somehow I don't see CNN Intl running on their scroll what team K-Rod signs with.

But I could be wrong.

2008-12-04 18:00:47
449.   trainwreck
Thank the stars, UCLA game is about to be on. I can't take much more of the Raiders.
2008-12-04 18:04:01
450.   Steve Now in Annapolis
328

Gangs of New York is one of the 5 worst movies I've ever seen, IMO.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-12-04 18:05:40
451.   Eric Stephen
Oh well, that was a close one. In Norman, not San Diego.
2008-12-04 18:06:00
452.   Tripon
Dodgers sign LHRP Carmen Cali (amongst others) Cali was one of the players I outlined as freely available talent destined to become LOOGYs, and for that I selfishly hope the Dodgers allow Cali the opportunity to replace Joe Beimel.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/

2008-12-04 18:07:14
453.   oshea2002
Between the refs tonight and the BCS, OU has made some serious pact with the devil, unbelievable.
2008-12-04 18:08:51
454.   bhsportsguy
447 When I took a drama class in college, I watched the film version of "Long Day's Journey into Night." They deleted only one word from the play. The word was "god" and it was deleted twice because it happened to precede another word that I won't type here.
2008-12-04 18:10:40
455.   D4P
I doubt the winter meetings will be big news in Paris

I was in Florida when Depo was fired, and in Oregon when Pierre was signed. Maybe I'll get to celebrate a John Garland acquisition in the City of Lights.

2008-12-04 18:11:08
456.   MC Safety
Man, I'm bummed after hearing about Rodney Rodgers accident. I always rooted for him when he was a Clipper.
2008-12-04 18:18:05
457.   Tripon
Texas Rangers
Signed: LHP Joe Torres

The Rangers should have Torres legally change his name to Torre.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1816

2008-12-04 18:18:15
458.   Steve Now in Annapolis
409

Don't know what the definition of "slimy" is, but Scott Drew could never be described as slimy. Don't know much about Art Briles, but he doesn't give that vibe either.

2008-12-04 18:19:14
459.   dzzrtRatt
450 Challenge!

Daniel Day Lewis alone makes that movie one of Scorcese's best. He's the one actor who can carry almost any movie.

But I think "Gangs" is pretty great aside from that. I'd put it behind only GoodFellas, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Mean Streets and Casino.

2008-12-04 18:19:35
460.   Eric Stephen
I'm sure glad JaMarcus Russell held out last year. He not only has one of the largest contracts in the NFL, but he is truly horrible. We're talking Vince Young bad here.
2008-12-04 18:22:06
461.   Tripon
460 It would help JaMarcus Russell that the Raiders didn't fire the one guy who knew how to protect him. Lane Kiffin was a lot of things, but he knew that Russell was raw and needed to be protected as much as possible.
2008-12-04 18:32:21
462.   bhsportsguy
455 He was never the same after he rang the doorbell twice.
2008-12-04 18:33:26
463.   trainwreck
I turn back to the game to see the Raiders best offensive player is hurt. Terrific.
2008-12-04 18:37:31
464.   Eric Stephen
463
McFadden got hurt too? :)
2008-12-04 18:37:59
465.   Tripon
463 Sebastian Janikowski? =P
2008-12-04 18:39:25
466.   Icaros
459

I'm torn about whom I would rank higher: Daniel Plainview or Bill "The Butcher" Cutting.

2008-12-04 18:39:56
467.   trainwreck
Zach Miller.

Certainly not Russell.

2008-12-04 18:49:19
468.   trainwreck
I wish UCLA had as many shooters as Texas.
2008-12-04 18:56:28
469.   Tripon
Jason Stark has a new blog post in it, and a lot of info concerns the Dodgers.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/starks-latest-b.html

- Stark says that the Dodgers are only going to make an offer to C.C. if C.C. tells the Dodgers if he wants to play in L.A.

- The Furcal market has dried up, and only the A's and the Dodgers are effectively in it.

- Blake has to wait on Furcal signing before his situation is handled. If the Dodgers miss out both on Blake and Furcal, the Dodgers will focus on trading for either Beltre, or Ty Winnington.

-Andruw Jones might start playing winter ball this weekend.

-

2008-12-04 19:02:11
470.   DBrim
469 - There's no better strategy than annoying a player (CC) before we try to sign them. Brilliant.
2008-12-04 19:05:16
471.   trainwreck
SC fans wishes have been answered.

Sarkisian has accepted the Washington job.

2008-12-04 19:08:02
472.   Ken Noe
434 I love Orsay, but Rodin is cool as well. Take a boat ride on the Seine to Notre Dame.
2008-12-04 19:13:37
473.   trainwreck
Oh, no. Josh Shipp looks like he is going to start forcing things like crazy.
2008-12-04 19:19:26
474.   D4P
Take a boat ride on the Seine to Notre Dame

Hmmm...hadn't thought of that. We'll be visiting Notre Dame, of course, but hadn't heard anything about boat rides. It's gonna be chilly out, so we'll play that one by ear.

Regarding Ty Wigginton:

Home: .343/.390/.691/1.081
Away: .234/.316/.380/.696

2008-12-04 19:23:53
475.   bhsportsguy
473 If he just dunks the ball, it should be okay.
2008-12-04 19:26:33
476.   bhsportsguy
472 So you guys are getting a new coach, I thought UCLA fans were annoyed with Pete Carroll but at least that took a while, all it took for Auburn was two seasons with Saban running the show for the Tide.
2008-12-04 19:31:54
477.   Louis in SF
469

Do you actually believe that the Dodgers will only make an offer on CC if he says he wants to play in LA! There are many things that are said during the Hot Stove League but that has to rank pretty high on the stupid list-it just doesn't make sense.

2008-12-04 19:34:41
478.   El Lay Dave
Take a boat ride on the Seine to Notre Dame

Sounds like a Chance? card in Monopoly - Paris edition.

2008-12-04 19:36:16
479.   Tripon
477 I don't believe it, but that's what Stark's reported. It sounds like the Dodgers don't want to be bothered.
2008-12-04 19:39:06
480.   Andrew Shimmin
I heard a rumor that CC was willing to say "pretty, pretty please," but that he was not yet willing to put a cherry on top.
2008-12-04 19:41:25
481.   bhsportsguy
473 This is the same game that happened last year at Pauley, UCLA got behind in the first half and then outplayed Texas for a good part of the 2nd half. Let's hope the ending is different.
2008-12-04 19:42:18
482.   trainwreck
481
We better box out on the last shot of the game then.
2008-12-04 19:45:44
483.   bhsportsguy
482 What's up with Jrue so far?
2008-12-04 19:47:59
484.   trainwreck
I think he is not used to the quickness of the Texas guards, including their quick hands.
2008-12-04 19:55:00
485.   Tripon
Q:David Bowen from Potsdam, NY asks: What? NO love for the Dodgers? Were either Lambo or DeJesus close to the Top 20? How would you rate them?

A:Kary Booher: Man, this is a tough crowd today. Accusations of no love for the Dodgers or the Brewers' Lorenzo Cain already. Fun stuff. In speaking with a number of scouts, no one singled out Lambo, so I took that as a sign that he was in that after-20 pack of a really good, not great guys. But DeJesus did get consideration for the back half of the list, falling out because he didn't hit enough and did commit nine errors, one that saw on a routine play in which he lolly-gagged scooped it and then threw the ball into the dugout. Scouts liked his range and think he'll be in the majors. I docked him a little for that and, with Eric Young Jr. surging at the end, I left No. 20 open for the taking. So Young snagged it.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/winter-baseball/arizona-fall-league/2008/267288.html

2008-12-04 20:04:32
486.   Longhorn Bill
Hook 'em!
2008-12-04 20:06:44
487.   Tripon
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-wilsondodgers120408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Brown sees that the Dodgers aren't really interested in Jack Wilson.

2008-12-04 20:11:25
488.   bhsportsguy
I give Texas credit for the win but I am shocked that people are surprised, you are playing a lot of freshman and you have 4 of your best defensive players (Love at least grabbed rebounds) not at UCLA anymore.

UCLA will probably win the rest of their games this month but their next test will be whoever they play first on the road in conference play.

2008-12-04 20:13:44
489.   Jon Weisman
NORMAN, Okla. -- Blake Griffin scored 11 of his 25 points after getting hit with a cheap shot elbow in the second half, and No. 6 Oklahoma staved off a rally by USC for a 73-72 victory Thursday night.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-uschoops5-2008dec05,0,2636309.story

2008-12-04 20:14:39
490.   trainwreck
488
We did better than expected facing a top team on the road.
2008-12-04 20:16:32
491.   Longhorn Bill
UCLA has a lot of young talent, for sure. I would not want to face them later in the season. With that said, Texas fans sorely needed a reason to smile after the BCS debacle.
2008-12-04 20:23:41
492.   bhsportsguy
490 That will probably be Jrue's worst game this month.
2008-12-04 20:28:23
493.   godvls
Sark to UW could be bad news for the rest of the Pac 10. SC can't help but hire a better offensive coordinator to replace him......unless Carroll's ego gets in the way. Trojan fans are dancing in the streets right now.
2008-12-04 20:40:13
494.   Tripon
Maybe USC will stop trying to recruit every running back that they have a mild interest in.
2008-12-04 20:41:10
495.   trainwreck
494
Yeah, right.
2008-12-04 20:50:11
496.   Marty
Cameron Diaz, as is her wont, ruins Gangs of New York. I don't get the love for Casino, I really disliked that movie.

No one liked Age of Innocence?

2008-12-04 20:51:28
497.   Marty
Is Sarkisian to Washington official? Happy day if so.
2008-12-04 20:53:23
498.   trainwreck
497
According to ESPN sources.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3746240

2008-12-04 20:55:16
499.   Tripon
If you remember, it was the elbow that prevented Young from playing more second base last season with the Dodgers preferring him in the outfield in order to preserve his arm. The former Riverside Community College star said he has actually been feeling discomfort in the elbow for the past two seasons.

Also, Young can't throw until Jan. Despite being told after surgery that he could start around this time before.

http://blogs.pe.com/prosports/mlb/dodgers/

2008-12-04 20:56:05
500.   Marty
If I never see another side line pass down the line of scrimmage I'll be a happy man.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-12-04 20:58:06
501.   bhsportsguy
493 All Carroll wants is someone who will not overshadow his defense. The days of the explosive offense is over unless Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush have some more elgibility left.
2008-12-04 20:59:19
502.   oshea2002
If Pete brings back Carl Smith, which I fully expect, then I will be ecstatic.

FYI - Sark is denying he has accepted, likely b/c our season isn't over. I'd expect a comment from him on Sunday.

2008-12-04 21:03:18
503.   ucladodger
I was actually sort of impressed with the outcome of the game. A win would have been great, but losing by 4 to a top 10 team on the road with their best player absolutely going off is not that terrible. Add in that Jrue was not good and the frosh barely even played, and there is a lot of room for improvement. If Jrue can just assert himself more and Malcolm, Drew, and Bobo earn some more minutes in the upcoming games, they could be really dangerous in March. I would love to have a rematch with Texas in about 4 months.

Also, Leonard Washington is a dirty, dirty player and if Tim Floyd had a soul he would be ashamed of himself for giving him a scholarship.

2008-12-04 21:05:26
504.   Eric Stephen
500
I don't mind that play in general, but I agree Sark perhaps runs it too often.

Another criticism of Sark -- and I'm not sure how valid this is -- is that he runs too many plays to the short side of the field. Intuitively, the criticism seems apt but if the blocking is there I don't think it is necessarily a bad call.

It has seemed in the past few years the offense has struggled to find an identity. Perhaps part of the lack of rhythm is the RB rotation, but on the surface it seems like the offense should be doing more, even averaging 38 pts/game this year.

2008-12-04 21:06:16
505.   Bill Crain
489
I want to go on record that, that, yeah, it may well have been the cheapest shot I've ever seen on national TV, but it ain't nothing' compared to what I've seen actually playing the game. And, yeah, it made me howl in pain along with the rest of the country. And, yeah, Leonard Washington is not the first guy I would have wanted to recruit if I had better options. And, yeah, of course, he had to be ejected. So what?

With all that said, and in the certain knowledge that there was no possible justification for what happened and I can in no way condone what he did...

I am, in fact, a 3rd generation fan, and I remember the stall game, and I remember Ron Taylor. And I remember 1972.

So I got to admit: if it's me there on the floor, I give the guy high five.

It was cool. It was disturbing, horrifying. Awful. Frightful. Indefensible. But still, cool.

In 50 years, will he be able to say he was glad he did it? Who knows? But, me, I'd've been proud to take the rap. This is, after all, sports we're all discussing, not politics or literature. This is not real life.

Tough spot, tough to defend. So, this one's mine. Go, Leonard!

2008-12-04 21:06:20
506.   natepurcell
Hmm...we might have Furcal back after all...
2008-12-04 21:09:09
507.   Eric Stephen
506
New news?
2008-12-04 21:09:09
508.   trainwreck
505
You are defending deliberately hitting someone in the testicles during a basketball game?
2008-12-04 21:09:12
509.   Eric Enders
Well, that was an entertaining game. It's a good thing Texas won, because it would have been a shame to see lousy officiating decide the game in UCLA's favor. The final two minutes were refereed like the end of the 1972 Olympics with the Bruins in the role of the USSR. Love that minute-and-a-half long possession at the end.

Texas still has a lot of problems with their team. Connor Atchley has disappeared this year. Damion James thinks he's Glen Rice. Dexter Pittman can't stay on the floor for more than two minutes at a time. But they have a lot of things going for them, too. I heart Justin Mason.

This was my first time seeing Jrue Holiday play. I assume he's usually a lot better than that.

2008-12-04 21:09:25
510.   oshea2002
503 - it was a dirty play, no doubt. Although I don't condone it, I'm not sure how you can just call him a dirty, dirty player, it's not like he's done this 4 times now. I would sit him for a game, but I'm guessing every player was frustrated with the officiating and how they were letting Griffin get away with whatever he wanted. Washington obviously has some maturing to do and can't let that stuff affect him to the point he's taking cheap shots at players.

Let's delve into trashing each other's coaches.

2008-12-04 21:10:43
511.   oshea2002
Meant lets not delve
2008-12-04 21:11:48
512.   kinbote
499 Wow. I'd completely forgotten about the aborted DY-to-2b experiment. Wouldn't that be something if he won the 2b job during spring training? (I'm not holding my breath.)
2008-12-04 21:12:27
513.   trainwreck
510
He did threaten to kill his high school basketball coach.
2008-12-04 21:12:43
514.   oshea2002
506 - where'd you hear this?
2008-12-04 21:13:45
515.   Eric Enders
508 No one is defending the action, but I have to say that Griffin's reaction appeared totally staged to me. He got elbowed in the upper chest and got up holding his groin. Does. Not. Compute.

If you look at the replay over and over there appears to be no contact at all below the waist. I think Griffin was just trying to draw attention to the play and make sure the refs reviewed the tape at the monitors.

That doesn't mitigate what Washington did at all, though. It was a really blatant cheap shot, and he deserves whatever he's got coming.

FWIW, I thought the intentional foul on Hackett was bogus. He was clearly going for the ball.

2008-12-04 21:13:53
516.   trainwreck
I think Nate is referring to the article Tripon posted that said Furcal is between A's and us.
2008-12-04 21:15:40
517.   Bill Crain
508
If you ain't seen worse you never played.

But, no, I'm defending the program. And the sport.

There are those who would take it all away from us. On the grounds that the game is played by men, and they should act like they're something else. My contention is that we can't; we shouldn't; we must resist.

2008-12-04 21:15:45
518.   Eric Enders
I'm a huge Tim Floyd fan, but it seemed pretty obvious even to me that he'd given orders for his players to beat up Griffin tonight. It wasn't John Chaney but it wasn't far off.
2008-12-04 21:15:49
519.   trainwreck
I did not see the replay, so if he did not hit him in the balls than it is not as bad.
2008-12-04 21:19:11
520.   oshea2002
He did not punch him as much as swing his arm into him. Dirty no doubt, but I've seen way worse - Reggie Evans anyone? The whole play looked weird b/c Griffin was simultaneously pulling a Vlade. He had decided the flop before Washington even touched him, which made the whole thing very strange.

510 - kid obviously has maturity issues, we knew that going in. Totally not disputing that.

2008-12-04 21:20:05
521.   trainwreck
517
Not going to be men if you get your sack ripped off.
2008-12-04 21:20:17
522.   Eric Enders
519 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu1yzliqlVw
2008-12-04 21:20:49
523.   DBrim
http://tinyurl.com/5p9rz3

Replay is on that post. Looks pretty blatant on that last angle.

2008-12-04 21:21:10
524.   bhsportsguy
509 I didn't see the game so I can I only go by the box score but Texas was in the penalty in second half for the last 10 minutes and only had 4 team fouls with I think 3 minutes to go so the refs' calls must have really switched to make you think that the game was tilted towards UCLA at the end.
2008-12-04 21:21:25
525.   Eric Stephen
It's not definitive, but it looks like Griffin was hit in the giblets. Skip to the 1:30 mark:

http://tinyurl.com/5p9rz3

2008-12-04 21:22:21
526.   Tripon
512 Are you saying we can have Jeff Kent's defensive ability at 1/10th of the price? ;P
2008-12-04 21:23:16
527.   Bill Crain
521
Ripped off would be an entirely different movie. What I'm saying is, we were doing that in the 8th grade. Without the cameras.
2008-12-04 21:24:41
528.   Eric Stephen
Being a fan is hilarious at times. I am guilty of this quite often, so I am not condemning, but I love the separate descriptions of the officiating of two different games.

453 and 509 cracked me up.

2008-12-04 21:27:00
529.   Eric Enders
524 I'm not saying it was intentional or anything; there were just two egregiously bad calls that kept the ball in UCLA's hands at the end. First there was a foul on Texas's Atchley on which there was literally no contact -- not even a smidgen. UCLA fumbled the ball out of bounds and the ref just assumed Atchley caused it.

Then there was a play where Damion James rebounded the free throw and was gang-tackled by three UCLA guys resulting in a held ball.

I thought the game was actually very well officiated up until then. They were really letting 'em play in the first half, which is the way it should be. It would have been really embarrassing for college basketball if those two late calls had decided the game, but fortunately, they didn't.

2008-12-04 21:34:38
530.   Eric Enders
I'm glad to hear The Drum was sold out tonight. Texas fans are notoriously apathetic about basketball.
2008-12-04 21:35:48
531.   Longhorn Bill
529 I'm all for "letting them play" too, but towards the end of the first half it occurred to me that there was a good chance of an injury or a fight if the intensity were allowed to grow further.

I think the referees noticed too and began to call more fouls. UCLA seemed to suffer from this early in the second half when they had their run. They came out hot and I felt like the increased activity by the refs helped Texas gather themselves. The calls at the end of the game were pretty bad too though. All in all, I think the officiating was pretty good. This early in the year, it would be a shame for players to get injured on two teams of Texas' and UCLA's caliber.

2008-12-04 21:35:53
532.   Bill Crain
518
Not that I've ever defended John Chaney, but, Eric, you got to admit that a coach didn't tell his players to hang all over Griffin, he ought to be sued for defamation of character.

I'm defending Leonard Washington on different grounds: that the world, especially inside the lines, can't be made from foam rubber.

That's not the cosmos I want to leave to my children,

2008-12-04 21:37:05
533.   Longhorn Bill
530 Absolutely. When I was in school there, the Drum only sold out for KU, A&M, and OU. It was kind of sad.
2008-12-04 21:43:34
534.   oshea2002
I thought the game was well officiated, certainly compared to what went on in Norman.

I thought both LA teams had a good showing in losses. Once UCLA's freshmen get more assertive, they will be a strong team. I was impressed, this was a game they'd win in 3 months.

USC was a bit of fools gold tonight, IMO. We typically won't shoot that well from the outside, and Hackett will never play that well again in a PG role. If those weren't flukes, then we will be pretty good. Derozan, although not really effective, at least got aggressive.

2008-12-04 21:45:21
535.   Tripon
534 But what about Lil' Romeo!?!? ;P
2008-12-04 21:46:34
536.   Longhorn Bill
Shots to the testicles have no place in real life, basketball, baseball, football, you name it IMO. Also, just because we've seen dirtier plays, does not make intentionally hitting a guy in the balls ok (even if the recipient is a Sooner).
2008-12-04 21:48:41
537.   Tripon
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08340/932937-63.stm?cmpid=pirates.xml

The Jack Wilson talks won't die. Now Wilson say's he's willing to restructure his contract to get traded to the Dodgers. (two years, 12 million.) Also, Dejan Kovacevic pretty much calls Tony Jackson misinformed.

2008-12-04 21:51:32
538.   trainwreck
537
Would players' union even allow that?
2008-12-04 21:55:32
539.   Eric Stephen
538
They would because it actually increases the guaranteed money. That 2010 option has buyout written all over it, and the players' association probably realizes it.
2008-12-04 21:55:54
540.   Eric Enders
So we go from talking about painful shots to the testicles, to trading for Jack Wilson, which is basically the same thing.
2008-12-04 21:57:50
541.   Bill Crain
536
Okay, I've played, I've read what you've written, I've considered the sentiments you've expressed. It all sounds fine on paper.

What I'm wondering now, though, is if you've just written words, or if you've given any thought to the meaning behind them.

I've said here I don't like it and I don't condone it.

Now I'm asking if it really is beyond the pale; is it unacceptable; is it criminal; is it worthy of our contempt?

Or is it merely what we've all done, imagined doing, wished we'd done, regretted doing or not doing after the fact?

All too easy to say there is no place in real life for what does, in fact, happen all the time.

Go ahead, cast the first stone.

2008-12-04 22:00:44
542.   DBrim
Dear Ned,

Jack Wilson isn't very good.

Signed,
A concerned fan

2008-12-04 22:09:06
543.   tjdub
542 Can I sign my name to that?
2008-12-04 22:09:36
544.   Tripon
Dear Ned,

Chin-Lung Hu can give you similar production at 1/14th of the cost. You understand that right?

Tripon

2008-12-04 22:10:24
545.   tjdub
Sporcle will be the death of me and I'm holding people here responsible. I only got 81/95 Cy Young award winners. My mind is clearly slipping.
2008-12-04 22:13:48
546.   Longhorn Bill
I don't think anyone is casting stones. If I gave off a self-righteous vibe, then I apologize. It is just a matter of opinion. I do not think the integrity of basketball would be shattered without blatantly dirty acts like we witnessed tonight.

540 LOL

2008-12-04 22:42:55
547.   Tripon
Just 17 minutes to approximate window server down time!
2008-12-04 22:46:12
548.   trainwreck
Holy crud! Matt Berry (from various British shows) guest starring on Sarah Silverman Program.
2008-12-04 23:06:58
549.   Dodgers49
Sabathia Is Keeping Yanks' Offer in His Pocket

>> But the hope of an overture from the Angels, apparently, explains Sabathia's delay. <<

http://tinyurl.com/59vjvo

2008-12-04 23:19:35
550.   68elcamino427
Anyone read Simers today with the Ned references? Today/March/Trading Deadline?
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-12-04 23:20:19
551.   DBrim
549 - I really think that Sabathia is ours for the taking if we make an offer, well, now.
2008-12-04 23:34:01
552.   68elcamino427
551
I'm gett'in prepared for the money reality.
Hope I'm wrong.
2008-12-04 23:48:42
553.   ucladodger
510

Lets just say that Leonard has quite a reputation on the AAu circuit.

2008-12-05 00:11:41
554.   Andrew Shimmin
541- I will bravely stand with you. But not within striking distance.

Where would Jack Wilson fit in the big pile of regrettable Colletti acquisitions? Not as bad as Pierre, I'd say. Worse than Jones or Schmidt (though I could see taking the other side of that). Really the central question would be his position relative to Gary Bennett.

2008-12-05 01:31:09
555.   Louis in SF
554

ESPN did a full Baseball Tonight and for what it is worth Jack Wilson will not be a Dodger and Kurjian thinks Furcal ends up an A and Manny does sign with the Dodgers. I wonder what the annual salary the A's have offered Furcal. Part of me says they have given him four years but the dollar amount maybe far closer to 10million per year instead of the 12 or 13 that people have been talking about.

2008-12-05 06:56:39
556.   Tripon
The Yankees also have had internal discussions about second baseman Orlando Hudson, whom they would sign, presumably, if they were to move closer to the long-considered swap of Robinson Cano to the Dodgers (or some other team). If the Yankees were to trade Cano to L.A., they almost certainly would insist upon an elite pitcher like Clay Kershaw or Chad Billingsley in return, and in failing to get that, they'd lock in on outfielder Matt Kemp.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3746876&name=olney_buster

The implication is that Cano is an elite player, is he? I might do a Pedroida for Kershaw move as a base of something but Cano for Kershaw no way.

2008-12-05 07:01:34
557.   D4P
General manager Kevin Towers indicated Thursday that the second player to be named later heading to the Padres in the Khalil Greene trade is more highly regarded than Mark Worrell. - via Rotoworld

Good trade for Depo's squad.

2008-12-05 07:03:09
558.   D4P
556
The Yankees wouldn't be trading Cano in the first place if they valued him anywhere near as much as the Dodgers value Billingsley/Kershaw/Kemp. Ned's not that stupid, and even if he was, someone in the organization would stop him from making such a huge mistake.
2008-12-05 07:26:44
559.   MC Safety
556 PLEASE stop posting that ridiculous rumor.
2008-12-05 07:27:29
560.   Tripon
The Dodgers are not actively pursuing Jack Wilson, Craig Wilson, Preston Wilson, Enrique Wilson or any other player named Wilson. They spoke to the Pirates about Jack Wilson earlier this offseason, but as reported here earlier, the talks broke down about how much money the Pirates would include in the deal and the third player they would receive along with shortstop Chin-Lung Hu and outfielder Delwyn Young. The Tigers are making a more serious push for Wilson ...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-05 07:33:12
561.   DBrim
560 - They wanted THREE people? Ned was willing to give them TWO? Good lord.
2008-12-05 07:54:22
562.   cargill06
Top 25 Rickey stories.

http://www.faniq.com/blog/The-25-Best-Rickey-Henderson-Stories-Of-All-Time-Blog-15243

2008-12-05 08:08:47
563.   JoeyP
Hopefully there is actual player movement next week.

All these rumors dont amount to anything really. Just writers trying to get hits on their articles.

I remember when Hudson for Perez/Jackson was supposedly a done deal & it never happened.

2008-12-05 08:25:31
564.   D4P
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Jack Wilson may be willing to restructure his contract to facilitate a trade to the Dodgers. Wilson is a native Californian and the newspaper reports that it's unclear whether he'd be willing to make similar changes for a deal to Detroit. The Tigers are among six teams to whom he can veto a trade, but Wilson said Thursday that he's "not going to block a move."

Does "restructure his contract" mean "play for less money"...?

2008-12-05 08:29:04
565.   68elcamino427
Hey - If I just bought two beach front homes recently - say in the last 24 months - for about $50,000,000.00, but the real estate market has experienced an abrupt changed for the worse (turned on a dime so to speak) and now my new beachfront homes could list for - oh let's just pick a number - say $30,000,000.00
and the market for these properties just might go down some more - and the market for properties like this might not come back up for maybe ten years. Oh ... and I borrowed money to buy the homes ... I didn't pay cash.
If I were in a situation like this, what advice might you offer me? What should I do?
Add on oh! Forgot to mention that the majority of my collateral for my big business dealings have been real estate holdings.
2008-12-05 08:33:24
566.   Daniel Zappala
565 Eat the $20,000,000.00 loss and raise parking prices.
2008-12-05 08:38:42
567.   Tripon
564 Yes and no. Wilson said he'd do 12 million for two years, while his current contract is 8 million in 2009, and another 8.5 million option in 2010 with a 500,000 buyout. A restructure would net him less money potentially, but he'd be guaranteed a 2nd year, and it'll force the Dodgers to keep him around a second year whether they want to or not.
2008-12-05 08:40:57
568.   Eric Stephen
562
I love all of those, and I don't care if they're true or not.
2008-12-05 08:41:02
569.   Tripon
567 Also, Eric Stephan pointed out why the union would be on board with it, pointing out that the option has buyout written all over it.
2008-12-05 09:12:07
570.   Ken Noe
Every time I read this Cano for some-Dodger-a-lot better deal, my dislike of the Yankees' arrogance grows apace.
2008-12-05 09:16:23
571.   kinbote
If the left side of our infield next year is Blake & Wilson, we'd better be bringing Manny back.

C-Martin
CF-Kemp
RF-Ethier
LF-Manny
1B-Loney
3B-Blake
2B-DeWitt
SS-Wilson

Would this be a good offense?

2008-12-05 09:20:12
572.   Tripon
Would you do a Cano for McDonald or Elbert deal?
2008-12-05 09:22:06
573.   cargill06
571 Last year we scored 700 runs. That line-up would score more than 700 runs. I would think 730-750, that would put us middle of the pack.
2008-12-05 09:22:20
574.   underdog
I feel like there needs to be a Snopes.com for hot stove rumors, though it would probably make that site eventually melt down.
2008-12-05 09:39:53
575.   underdog
I'm kind of surprised at Buster Olney; his "report" above could've been written by a Yankee fan from deep in the comments of some Yankees blog rather than from any reliable journalist. How can he type that trade idea with a straight face?
2008-12-05 09:41:13
576.   Eric Stephen
O.J.'s counsel seems to embody every possible negative trait associated with lawyers.
2008-12-05 09:44:56
577.   68elcamino427
572
Cano has great offensive numbers (for a second baseman) when he works with Mattingly and Torre.
He will be 26 this October.
But he's a second baseman and second baseman are a dime a dozen.
Cano hits 15 homers or DeWitt hits 11 - what's the diff?
What's his contract status?
How much money would McCourt need to spend in order to keep Cano around for four more years?
The pitchers who you are mentioning are young, cheap, under control and look like they might be seviceable at the MLB level.
2008-12-05 09:45:28
578.   Tripon
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick checked with a team official involved in the Manny Ramirez deal, and he learned that Ramirez did not agree to reject the Dodgers' offer of arbitration as a condition of the trade (contrary to a few reports). This information was obtained via an email from Crasnick.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-12-05 09:47:52
579.   Ken Noe
572 I might do Elbert, simply because the powers that be don't seem to want to use him.
2008-12-05 09:50:22
580.   Tripon
579 Torre was using him pretty liberally until the fateful Pittsburgh game at the end of the season. Then the Dodgers just kinda shut him down, and used James McDonald more.
2008-12-05 09:51:01
581.   cargill06
[579} I think the lack of interest in Beimel is because of Elbert.
2008-12-05 09:54:37
582.   D4P
Ramirez did not agree to reject the Dodgers' offer of arbitration as a condition of the trade

Which, I suppose, is good news for those who want to keep Manny for one year.

2008-12-05 09:55:12
583.   old dodger fan
I don't understand the fascination with Cano.
First-he is expensive
09:$6M, 10:$9M, 11:$10M, 12:$14M club option ($2M buyout), 13:$15M club option ($2M buyout)

I think we have to assume that this team has a budget. Money spent on Cano is money not spent elsewhere. Is this really where we want to spend this kind money? I don't.

Second-He's a good hitter but not that good. His OPS+ last year was only 86; his career is 109. Why did it drop 34 points last year? Maybe the Yankees are having Buyers remorse?

Third-He is not a FA. We have to give up players to get him.

If he was a FA and we had unlimited money I would love to have him at 2B. Since neither of those are true I think we should pass.

2008-12-05 09:55:32
584.   underdog
579 Yeah, seems way too early to come to that conclusion. He got his first ML experience last year and they actually used him more than I expected them to. I agree with cargill, both Elbert and Kuo were a major reason they didn't have interest in bringing Beimel back, and rightly so. I'd expect him to get more looks next season.
2008-12-05 10:02:06
585.   mintxcore
584 do you mean "leftly so"?

ha ha ha ha... errrrr that's not funny, darn it.

2008-12-05 10:10:47
586.   D4P
Former football great O.J. Simpson...(said) he did not mean to hurt anyone and did not know he was doing anything illegal.

Remember that time you killed your ex-wife and her boyfriend? That was illegal, too.

I know, I know: those law-thingies are tough to keep track of.

2008-12-05 10:16:57
587.   bigcpa
584 Fourth he's the worst fielding 2B in the majors accd to the Fielding Bible's '08 ratings.

And his 4% walk rate is 11th worst in the majors.

2008-12-05 10:17:23
588.   bigcpa
Make that 583 .
2008-12-05 10:17:49
589.   Eric Stephen
At least USC won't have the awkward problem of O.J. showing up at their Bowl games anymore.
2008-12-05 10:19:31
590.   Tripon
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/olneys-latest.html#comments

I love the comments Yankees fans are making defending Robinson Cano. Its awesome and hilarious at the same time.

2008-12-05 10:19:55
591.   D4P
He was convicted of armed robbery, kidnapping and assault on October 3 -- 13 years to the day after his acquittal in the killings of his former wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Lyle Goldman.

Amazing.

2008-12-05 10:21:32
592.   MC Safety
Ca-no thanks.
2008-12-05 10:35:08
593.   silverwidow
Seriously, I read a Yankee blog commenter refer to Billingsley and Kershaw as "pitching prospects."
2008-12-05 10:43:09
594.   Eric Stephen
593
Unlike established superstars Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. :)
2008-12-05 10:44:57
595.   cargill06
593 Honestly, it's mind numbing how a 24 year old pitcher starts his career averaging 150 IP per year for 3 years with a career 132 ERA+ get's so disrespected.
2008-12-05 10:47:54
596.   DaDoughboy
Judge Karma lowers the hammer...

15 years for OJ with the possibility of parole in 5..

2008-12-05 10:50:28
597.   JoeyP
Out in 5yrs doesnt seem like that bad of sentence considering all the felonies he was convicted of.
2008-12-05 10:53:21
598.   D4P
Let's hope OJ's parole board is as unforgiving as Ellis Boyd Redding's.
2008-12-05 10:53:28
599.   underdog
It's hard to watch those Naked Gun movies nowadays without feeling creeped out.

That's their punishment for not just using the original sidekick actor from the Police Squad show instead of bringing in OJ.

2008-12-05 10:54:55
600.   Eric Stephen
599
It's hard to watch those Naked Gun movies nowadays without feeling creeped out

Yeah, because of Priscilla Presley.

Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2008-12-05 10:55:34
601.   DaDoughboy
593.
Another 'confused' blogger compared Cano to Ryan Howard, and Bills/Kershaw to Price/Shields (ok, that one is at least close)..
2008-12-05 10:56:25
602.   kinbote
599 I realize that . . . now.
2008-12-05 10:58:12
603.   DaDoughboy
598.
Ya, I can just imagine OJ in 5 years..
"Rehabilitated? Well, now let me see. You know, I don't have any idea what that means".
2008-12-05 11:01:29
604.   kinbote
My favorite OJ quote from today's news:

"I thought I was confronting friends."

2008-12-05 11:02:20
605.   cargill06
601 Who would you take? Maybe it's just being a homer, but Chad and Clay would be my pick.
2008-12-05 11:02:46
606.   D4P
604
I saw that. I mean, who doesn't bring an arsenal of firearms with them when confronting friends...?
2008-12-05 11:04:19
607.   wronghanded
605 Shields has the lowest upside, Price has the highest IMO.
2008-12-05 11:05:58
608.   cargill06
606 I can't answer that question. Plaxico is one, however, that does bring his glock when confronting friends.
2008-12-05 11:07:42
609.   Tripon
James Shields would be the worst of the bunch, but that's like saying you'll take the guy who already reached his ceiling.

If I had to rank them right now on production:

Billingsley
Shields
Price
Kershaw

Price is higher due to production in the playoffs.

If I had to guess 3, 4 years from now:

Price
Kershaw
Billingsley
Shields

I personally think Kershaw's going to win a Cy Young before Billingsley will, and when Kershaw's hits the FA market(if the Dodgers are foolish enough to let that happen.) He'll match C.C. next contract.

Wow, that's a lot of hyperbole for an age 21 pitcher.

2008-12-05 11:14:04
610.   Eric Stephen
609
As Rob Neyer (and maybe Bill James before him) likes to say, it's foolish to predict anything for a 21- (or 20-)year old pitcher. You'd be right more often than not in predicting Kershaw won't even get to 50 wins.

Not that I'm that pessimistic, though.

2008-12-05 11:15:36
611.   DaDoughboy
605.
I'll even admit my homer-ism..they are very comparable, but Shields is 3 years older than Bills, and I can't imagine Bills not being better at 27 than Shields now. Kershaw has more upside than Price too..
2008-12-05 11:16:04
612.   cargill06
610 I'm sure the sucsess rate for a 20 year old pitcher posting a 100 ERA+ or greater in 100+ IP is pretty high.
2008-12-05 11:20:59
613.   DaDoughboy
611.
Scratch that, should have read "I can't imagine Bills not being MUCH better at 27 than Shields now."
2008-12-05 11:23:32
614.   Eric Stephen
612
Good point. Since integration, there have been only 34 pitchers age 20 or younger to achieve a 100 ERA+ in 100 IP.

Only 6 of the 32 (not counting active pitchers Kershaw & Greinke) didn't get to 50 career wins.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/unwY

2008-12-05 11:23:50
615.   Tripon
How far can Chad Billingsley go though? He posted ERA+ of 118, 138, and 135. While he might not reached his peak yet, I don't know if he's going to get drastically better than he is right now. But hey, Mr. Dependable just as good as Mr. Crazy Good Inconsistent.
2008-12-05 11:32:09
616.   Daniel Zappala
614 Wow, that's a great list.
2008-12-05 11:40:28
617.   silverwidow
Kershaw will put up Lincecum numbers during his arbitration period.
2008-12-05 11:43:23
618.   Jim Hitchcock
Gus...anybody remember the site that changes names to different countries.
2008-12-05 11:43:54
619.   Jim Hitchcock
Uh, guys, not gus.
2008-12-05 11:45:53
620.   DaDoughboy
615.
I'm hoping for maybe a Clemens-like average of around 143 :)
2008-12-05 11:49:58
621.   Andrew Shimmin
Was Fernando really 20 when he was 20?
2008-12-05 11:50:46
622.   Eric Enders
I'm not sure if anyone's posted Tim Brown's take on the Jack Wilson saga, but he seems to think the Dodgers are looking to sell off more of their young players for cold, hard cash.

-------------
http://tinyurl.com/67wy9x

"Hu, in fact, has been mentioned as part of a package that would go to Pittsburgh for Wilson. Backup outfielder Delwyn Young is also on the table. Colletti might part with both of them provided the Pirates picked up most of the guaranteed money still owed Wilson ($7.85 million)."

2008-12-05 11:51:52
623.   Tripon
Tripon (L.A.): Onley is trying to get a Cano for Kemp or Kershaw, or Billingsley rumor started again. Does anyone in New York seriously expect something like this to happen, or is it just a slow news day, and people have to make stuff up?

Jay Jaffe: I think Buster is just spitballing on a slow day, but there is quite obviously a source within the Dodger org that insists on fueling such rumors every so often as an effort to undermine Colletti and to put murder in the hearts of Dodger fans like me.

I have my ideas as to who that source is, but I can't discuss them here.

Woooooooooooooo, I got quoted!

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=550

2008-12-05 11:53:20
624.   Tripon
Dennis (Chicago): Source = Joe Torre? Just blink twice for yes.

Jay Jaffe: No, because they predate his arrival.

2008-12-05 11:53:59
625.   D4P
he seems to think the Dodgers are looking to sell off more of their young players for cold, hard cash

$50 million mortgages don't pay themselves...

2008-12-05 11:54:28
626.   Eric Enders
621 Despite all the dumb jokes about it over the years, there's no good reason to think he wasn't the age he said he was.

Especially when you consider that being much older would mean he was pitching professionally in Mexico at, what, age 55?

2008-12-05 11:54:31
627.   trainwreck
623
The Dodgers have turned into the Departed.

"The rat symbolizes obviousness."

2008-12-05 11:54:51
628.   Eric Stephen
623
I've been meaning to ask you this for a while: do you pronounce your screen name like "trip on," as in to fall over something, or somewhat sounding like "tripod"?
2008-12-05 11:55:55
629.   Eric Stephen
626
Either way, Fernando is legendary on one or perhaps both ends of the age spectrum.
2008-12-05 11:58:55
630.   Tripon
628 I would think 'Tri-pon'. But I only picked the name because tripod was already taken on a message board when I was a wee babe on the internet.

Tripon is an actual last name though, to my surprise. Romanian I believe. Not my actual last name, but somebody's.

2008-12-05 12:10:24
631.   Jason in Canada
611 Sorry, no disrespect intended, but I don't think Kershaw is in David Price's league. I hope I'm wrong though!
2008-12-05 12:12:52
632.   John Hale
As the talk is on young pitching..

Lincecum was at the Husky-OK State basketball game last night to be honored. As a Cy Young Award member he had garnered the highest honor of ANY UW alum in the big three sports. Ever.

And he looked like he should have been jumping up and down and yelling Defense in the student section. Amazing story.

And his Dad is still pissed the Mariners didn't pick him when they could of.

2008-12-05 12:15:18
633.   John Hale
I saw Prices Major League Debut on September 14th so its amazing that he did enough after that late date to prove his Major league credentials. But he did.
2008-12-05 12:16:09
634.   das411
359 , YES, Five Guys = awesome!

Now who am I still missing on the 3000 strikeout club Sporcle? He finished with 3,342 of them and got #3,000 in 1984...hmm...

2008-12-05 12:18:22
635.   Tripon
633 Brandon Morrow isn't that bad of a pitcher.
2008-12-05 12:20:12
636.   Tripon
Tripon (L.A.): Barlett for Xavier Paul, or Kyle Russell. Probably closer in talent.

Jay Jaffe: Much more reasonable, yes.

In an IM last night, Kevin called Russell "The Texas Wind Machine" which had me falling out of my chair laughing.

2008-12-05 12:26:32
637.   underdog
Good work, Tripon!

I like Jay Jaffe. Especially since he seems like "one of us."

--

I don't know if it's fair to compare Price and Kershaw at this point since, well, they're not at the same point. Kershaw is 20, Price is older with more high level (college + pro) experience. Who knows where Kershaw will be in a few years. But yes, I'd be pretty happy if he ended up Price.

2008-12-05 12:32:54
638.   underdog
From Jon Heyman, via MLBTR:

>>A friend of C.C. Sabathia tells Heyman the pitcher received two offers from unknown teams prior to Thanksgiving, in addition to the ones from the Brewers and Yankees. Sabathia is taking his time with this, as he should.<<

Doubtful it's the Dodgers, but you never know.

2008-12-05 12:35:23
639.   DaDoughboy
631.
Of course, none taken...I think if Price is able to polish up his changeup delivery and keep his velocity through his career then he will probably end up better than Kershaw. But just from the small spattering of Sept/Oct I've seen of Price (and a little from Vandy), I like the overall look of Kershaws stuff more. Much more aesthetically pleasing delivery to me..
2008-12-05 12:37:35
640.   DaDoughboy
631.
Did I mention I'm a lefty?
2008-12-05 12:37:49
641.   CanuckDodger
I can't see why anybody would think Price is better than Kershaw. Both lefties, same fastball velocity, Price has a good slider, while Kershaw has a good curve, neither guy's change-up is that good or used that often. And they reached the majors with one guy two years ahead of the other in age, giving Kershaw the edge.
2008-12-05 12:44:38
642.   D4P
Depo is personally responding to Padre fans on his blog who are upset about the direction in which they think the team is headed.

It's neither here nor there, but I wonder if his chances of keeping his Dodger job would have increased if he had had such a blog back then...

2008-12-05 12:48:11
643.   mwhite06
A fox sports article compares CC and Tex-- one point made is CC is risky because he is 28 years old and pushing 300 lbs. I also would have second thoughts on giving CC a long term deal considering his weight. It seems his weight doesn't bother too many people on this board, I was curious why many are comfortable with this point?
2008-12-05 13:00:41
644.   JoeyP
642- I doubt Plaschke would have read his blog. Nor the dinner party guests.
2008-12-05 13:00:59
645.   Eric Stephen
632
As a Cy Young Award member he had garnered the highest honor of ANY UW alum in the big three sports. Ever.

Warren Moon is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Although that's technically not an award. He did win the 1990 AP Offensive Player of the Year, though.

2008-12-05 13:08:48
646.   Dodgers49
This statement seems quite accurate:

Dodgers have needs entering Meetings

>> Ideally, the Dodgers would like to add an ace, they just don't want to pay for one. <<

http://tinyurl.com/62vf3u

2008-12-05 13:13:34
647.   D4P
646
I have to think that money is also the primary reason the Dodgers appear to have no interest in Randy Johnson.
2008-12-05 13:14:26
648.   trainwreck
647
Yet, the A's are supposedly the favorites to land him.
2008-12-05 13:14:44
649.   trainwreck
Greg Maddux will announce his retirement on Monday.
2008-12-05 13:15:55
650.   John Hale
645
I was just parroting what the public address announcer said when they introduced Lincecum to the BofA Arena at HecEdmunson Pavillion crowd. I figured there must be somebody at least in the conversation and Moon does seem the most obvious.
I just sometimes fail to appreciate that not all schools have a fraction of the history of UCLA and USC for which I am most familiar with.
I am having fun mentioning to Husky fans that Sark is responsible for USC not having 5 BCS titles by now.
Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2008-12-05 13:20:03
651.   D4P
648
The As don't have $47ish million a year tied up in Schmidt, Jones, Pierre, and Torre.
2008-12-05 13:20:04
652.   Eric Stephen
649
5008 innings
999 walks

He's just scared of going over a thousand. :)

2008-12-05 13:24:57
653.   Ken Noe
651 The gifts that keep on giving.
2008-12-05 13:25:45
654.   trainwreck
651
They do have Chavez and Crosby eating $16 million, with a much lower payroll.
2008-12-05 13:26:44
655.   Bluebleeder87
642

That would have been cool. You think the McCourts would have allowed it though?

2008-12-05 13:38:47
656.   trainwreck
There is a rumor that Chris Peterson has accepted Mississippi State job.
2008-12-05 13:46:10
657.   bhsportsguy
Ouch

Brian Dohn, who covers UCLA for the LA Daily News said in his weekly Q&A (which really is a great feature that he does for his blog) that the law firm was a better QB than Kevin Craft and in his opinion would have started this year.

That is a very depressing thought if you saw the law firm play against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl last year.

2008-12-05 14:05:13
658.   cargill06
615 His walk rate has improved every year, if he keeps up that trend his ERA will continue to drop. His BABIP may have been a little unlucky last year (.318). The only really discouraging thing is he is completely useless against left handed batters. If a team loads up on lefties (IE Phillies) he seems to have trouble.
2008-12-05 14:08:34
659.   cargill06
658 Billingsley's career splits

Vs. LHB- 911 PA's, 115 BB, 158 K's, .778 OPS against.

Vs. RHB- 974 PA's, 87 BB, 243 K's, .645 OPS against.

The only silver lining is he's only givin up 10 HR's vs LHB, compared to the 26 vs RHB.

2008-12-05 14:20:57
660.   D4P
Will Maddux enter the HOF in a Dodger cap...?
2008-12-05 14:21:10
661.   underdog
Old friend Dave Ross is now a Brave, as a backup to Chuck, er Brian, McCann.

Old friend Greg Maddux is supposedly about to announce retirement, too.

That's it for the moment in Old Friend news.

2008-12-05 14:21:16
662.   Eric Stephen
The sporcle quiz for top single season HR lists the top spot as 73*.
2008-12-05 14:22:30
663.   oshea2002
656 - I saw that, and have a tough time believing it. Not a great source either.
2008-12-05 14:24:25
664.   kinbote
Is this what a lull feels like?
2008-12-05 14:27:16
665.   D4P
That's it for the moment in Old Friend news

From Depo:

I've turned down multiple opportunities in the past two years for higher profile positions elsewhere in this industry, and I recently signed an agreement to stay here for the "San Diego discount". My wife's family has lived here for decades, and we're very much a part of the community.

2008-12-05 14:28:18
666.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-12-05 14:37:24
667.   ImprobableImpossible
Can't have the thread there ... bump!

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