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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Medium Isn't the Message - The Message Is the Message
2008-12-10 16:25
by Jon Weisman

Congratulations to online baseball writers Christina Kahrl, Will Carroll, Rob Neyer and Keith Law for their acceptance into the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

Comments (99)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-12-10 16:33:25
1.   bhsportsguy
Unfortunately, Darin Erstad will no longer be on an HOF ballot by the time Rob Neyer gets a vote.
2008-12-10 16:34:31
2.   JRSarno
An apt title also for GMs. Thus, congratulations to the Yankees for their unequivocal efforts at securing competent free agent pitching today.
2008-12-10 16:35:01
3.   Tripon
According to Gerry Fraley, the Phillies are looking to trade starter Adam Eaton. They'll pay all but $1MM of his $9MM salary for '09 and don't want anything in return.

There's enough bad contracts in the world for everyone to wallow in misery.

2008-12-10 16:35:04
4.   underdog
So my g/f's asthma was apparently caused by acid reflux of all things (!) and was given advair plus acid ref medication, and an emergency inhaler just in case, and between that and peace of mind already feels 100 times better. Thanks to everyone for your advice and her excellent new doc.

All is better with the world.

As for the Vizquel rumor, I wouldn't get blood pressure boiling based on what someone heard someone say based on someone else bumping into Vizquel's agent's brother in the lobby after an In N' Out run.

2008-12-10 16:35:45
5.   underdog
2 Congrats to the Yankees for having a payroll twice that of anyone else's you mean?
2008-12-10 16:35:58
6.   fanerman
4 That's good to hear.
2008-12-10 16:37:05
7.   scareduck
Since I got LAT'd --

462 in the previous thread - If someone is breaking down every year, it seems to me that a long term injury is more likelier than not.

Seconded. Is there any pitcher, anywhere, who has ever had a string of injuries like Sheets and got better? Based on Sheets' Rotoworld news history, here's some of the things that have afflicted him lately:

+ Tight/strained groin
+ Tight forearm
+ Triceps tightness
+ Blister*
+ A tear in the tissue adjacent to his right index finger tendon*
+ Pectoral muscle soreness
+ Right shoulder tendinitis (x2)*
+ Upper back muscle tear† ...
+ ... contemporaneous with a strained lower back
+ Viral infection*
+ Back surgery (herniated disc repair)
+ Inner ear infection (missed one start)
+ Sheets reported a sore back in spring training that lingered through the first half of 2003.

* = 15-day DL stint
† = 60-day DL stint

2008-12-10 16:38:18
8.   underdog
5 ( ...meaning they can be "smarter" because they have so much more money to spend.)
2008-12-10 16:39:16
9.   fanerman
5 I'm glad I don't have to feel sorry for them anymore.
2008-12-10 16:39:29
10.   regfairfield
I'd say they're much smarter than teams that would have spent that money on four guys that would have taken 5 million a year.
2008-12-10 16:39:40
11.   fanerman
9 Err, didn't mean to type that. I'm glad that I don't have to feel just slightly so guilty for hating them.
2008-12-10 16:41:34
12.   ToyCannon
How does Will Carrol get in and why did they single out ESPN and BP for two entries each while ignoring BA and Jim Callis or countless other internet writers? I know this is baby steps but usually when you break down the wall you do it with the best and Will Carrol is not that person.
2008-12-10 16:44:21
13.   scareduck
12 - I really don't get why so many people hate Will Carroll. His biggest problem is that he doesn't caveat enough of his statements, but what else has he done that makes him worse than the hacks who DO have BBWAA membership?
2008-12-10 16:46:08
14.   Zak
Eric, I know you also say that most of his injuries are not arm related, but most of them do affect pitching. Bulging disc, hamstrings and a series of shoulder injuries are very concerning even if your arm is in good shape.

From what I know, you read more about baseball online than I do. Have you read this article?

Again, Sheets is a good pitcher, but it's hard to get excited about a signing that you feel will get injured at some point every season.

2008-12-10 16:46:20
15.   underdog
Wow, Bad Altitude writes what may be the longest blog post about Alan Embree ever. Not that he's not right in his point there...
2008-12-10 16:47:19
16.   CanuckDodger
12 -- The BA writers only write about the majors tangentially, so it is easy to see how they would be overlooked.
2008-12-10 16:48:22
17.   Bob Timmermann
The employers of Carroll, Kahrl, Neyer, and Law nominated them for membership. You can't ask on your own.
2008-12-10 16:49:27
18.   Bob Timmermann
So is anybody else here related to a BBWAA member?

Not counting the people who read the comments who ARE BBWAA members.

2008-12-10 16:51:43
19.   Eric Enders
12 Baseball America is first and foremost a print publication. For all we know, Callis and company have been members for years. The reason these guys today are news is because they're internet-only writers.
2008-12-10 16:51:43
20.   Tripon
Who owns BP?
2008-12-10 16:52:11
21.   bhsportsguy
17 Also, Baseball America publishes articles by local writers for each team. I would assume many of them are BBWAA members.

The print version of Baseball America has been around for several years and their writers publish there, on their website and in their annual publications.

2008-12-10 16:52:23
22.   ToyCannon
I know but it was my understanding the BWAA asked for nominations from each entity. Did they also ask for nominations from other entities?

I don't dislike Will, I just consider him vanilla compared to other excellent baseball internet writers.

2008-12-10 16:53:06
23.   Eric Enders
20 BP does. Well, technically, "Prospectus Entertainment Ventures."
2008-12-10 16:53:29
24.   Andrew Shimmin
20- Billy Beane. Joe Morgan told me so.
2008-12-10 16:54:45
25.   Eric Enders
23 (And no, I don't mean the evil oil company.)
2008-12-10 16:56:16
26.   Harold M Johnson
25 That's evil energy company to you.
2008-12-10 16:58:32
27.   68elcamino427
The symptoms you describe can be a pre-cursor to pulmonory fibrosis - a condition that is irreversable once established.

I implore you to help her find a permanant fix to the acid reflux problem - not just pills.

My sister in law is on a lung transplant list because she ignored this problem.

Just trying to help.

2008-12-10 17:01:28
28.   Eric Enders
22 Every winter the BBWAA takes nominations and admits new members. It's just never news. It was only news this time because they were breaking their policy against admitting internet-only writers.

For instance, I would expect that they probably also admitted Dylan Hernandez today, but there is no particular reason that would be newsworthy.

2008-12-10 17:03:06
29.   Bob Timmermann
It was big news when my brother got his card.

At least between the two of us.

2008-12-10 17:04:51
30.   ToyCannon
So did a lot of internet writers apply and only those four were accepted?
2008-12-10 17:04:56
31.   trainwreck
How did your appointment go on Monday?
2008-12-10 17:06:50
32.   Eric Enders
30 I don't know. I think each news organization can nominate two writers per year. So they didn't turn down anyone else from BP or Maybe they snubbed the Hardball Times or something.
2008-12-10 17:08:21
33.   ToyCannon
2008-12-10 17:14:12
34.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. The turkey slaughtered during the Sarah Palin interview sold for $225 on E-bay:

2008-12-10 17:22:20
35.   ToyCannon
True Blue Poll Results: 101 Votes in 6 hours (Nice)

With CC gone, what is the best option for our pitching rotation.

17% Randy Johnson 18 votes

7% Oliver Perez 8 votes

14% Ben Sheets 15 votes

7% Stay with Chad/Kuroda/Clayton/McDonald/Schmidt
8 votes

8% D Lowe 9 votes

25% Randy Johnson and Ben Sheets
26 votes

16% Randy Johnson and Oliver Perez
17 votes

Randy and Sheets getting lot of support individually and collectively.

2008-12-10 17:24:02
36.   bhsportsguy
32 In December 2007, 16 writers were recommended for inclusion into the BBWAA. They are Jim Caple, Jerry Crasnick, Peter Gammons, Tim Kurkjian, Amy Nelson, Buster Olney, and Jayson Stark from ESPN, Scott Miller from CBS Sportsline, Ken Rosenthal from, Tim Brown, Steve Henson, Jeff Passan, and Dan Wetzel from Yahoo! Sports, and John Donovan, Jon Heyman, and Tom Verducci from Sports Illustrated. The two that did not make it in last year, Keith Law and Rob Neyer. The stated reason for not admitting them, lack of evidence of how many games they attended.

5 internet sites were approved by BBWAA last year,, CBS Sportsline, Yahoo! Sports, and Sports Those sites recommended 18 writers for membership, the above 16 got in.

This year, Baseball Prospectus was approved and two of their senior writers, Will Carroll and Christina Karhl were accepted into the BBWAA.

Perhaps next year, maybe it will be another internet publication that joins in, maybe even a blogger.

2008-12-10 17:24:37
37.   trainwreck
I want Sheets and Smoltz. Since Smoltz will miss some time at beginning that still gives McDonald a spot in the rotation and then Smoltz can come in when players get hurt.
2008-12-10 17:25:31
38.   trainwreck
Peter Gammons is in the Hall of Fame but not the BBWAA?
2008-12-10 17:27:01
39.   bhsportsguy
36 He's in. He was probably a member when he wrote for the Boston Globe but once he became exclusive to ESPN, that probably ended his membership.
2008-12-10 17:27:41
40.   Eric Enders
38 Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Gammons was a member from way back in the day when he was writing for the Boston Globe. Perhaps his active membership lapsed once he became an internet-only writer.
2008-12-10 17:31:32
41.   Tripon
I think that 'Tek has always been a person – he's the captain of a team, which is a rare event. And certainly Boston has let us know we want him back. We're talking about it. We also have to go out and look into other situations that will be able to him.

Boras is going to ride that Golden C as hard as he can.

2008-12-10 17:32:28
42.   Tripon
According to's Steve Gilbert, the Diamondbacks signed infielder Augie Ojeda to a one-year deal for $712,500. Gilbert says they'll probably require additional help at second base.

2008-12-10 17:32:35
43.   Eric Enders
From Article IV of the BBWAA Constitution: "Membership in this Association shall be classified as Active and Honorary. ... To qualify for Honorary Membership, candidates shall have fulfilled ten years of dues-paid membership and shall have ceased to be Active members."
2008-12-10 17:34:20
44.   Tripon
Define active. Active working for a press paper?
2008-12-10 17:34:43
45.   silverwidow
Rotoworld says the Dodgers will have the NL's worst infield with Vizquel.
2008-12-10 17:36:27
46.   jujibee
I wouldn't mind signing Kerry Wood and have him convert to starter again. He seems just as risky as Sheets, but he might be able to be had on a 1 year incentive laden deal with a back-up plan consisting of Stults/Mcdonald. I just wouldn't want to loose draft picks for the experiment.
2008-12-10 17:37:00
47.   silverwidow
46 He already signed w/Cleveland.
2008-12-10 17:39:33
48.   jujibee
45. Really though, would Ned be that dumb to sign Vizquel with cheaper, better, in-house options in Hu and DeJesus? I would certainly hope not, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised.
2008-12-10 17:41:38
49.   jujibee
46. Missed that one!
2008-12-10 17:43:56
50.   CajunDodger
This according to Tony Jackson:

By the way, I got bad info earlier. The Dodgers are NOT interested in Omar Vizquel.

Refreshing when a journalist is that candid...

You listening Mr. Rosenthal?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-12-10 17:44:46
51.   ToyCannon
Looks like creating rumors is the way to get a BBWAA card. Christina might be the best writer of all those names you mentioned.
2008-12-10 17:45:01
52.   Zak
Jackson needs to stop talking to the blackjack dealer and make sure he is counting cards properly.
2008-12-10 17:45:34
53.   ToyCannon
Jon will not be able to stop the smile spreading across his face.
2008-12-10 17:46:39
54.   Sam DC
Rosenthal's picked up a hot rumor that on Top Chef tonight, Gene and Fabio have a funny language mix up and instead of making Peking Duck end up making Peking Sock and hilarity ensues.

And according to, that the winner of Season 5 is Richard from Season 4, who makes a surprise appearance in Episode 11 and goes on to run away with the whole competition. That comes from a source close to Salman Rushdie.

2008-12-10 17:47:28
55.   CajunDodger
I think Jon has too much class to give an "I told you so" speech. ;)
2008-12-10 17:49:54
56.   Sam DC
55 Especially when helpful commenters do most of it for him.
2008-12-10 17:51:26
57.   Tripon

Saito might pick FA over the Dodgers incentive laced 1 year offer.

2008-12-10 17:52:06
58.   bferb
From Diamond Leung:

Takashi Saito's days a a Dodger might be over if things don't change soon with negotiations, as indicated the two sides were far apart. "It's a staredown right now," Colletti said. The Dodgers have offered Saito an incentive-laden one-year contract, but Saito could very well choose to become a free agent.

2008-12-10 17:52:30
59.   bferb
57 Sorry didnt mean to double up
2008-12-10 17:53:22
60.   Tripon
59 No worries, I do it all the time! ;P
2008-12-10 17:54:32
61.   Sam DC
Not a lot of info here, but not a rumor either:

Sheinin (re Tex): "From Jim Bowden: 'We've made a very significant, concrete offer. He's our No. 1 priority.' . . . . The Nationals are keeping the details of their offer very quiet, and I've been told by three team officials now that the rumors being floated on the Internet are almost uniformly wrong."

2008-12-10 17:56:21
62.   Eric Stephen
I'll let you all guess which one of those writers that I'm not thrilled has a HOF vote. :)

By the way, re-watching Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer for the first time in 20 or so years has reminded me that the North Pole was chock full of intolerance!

2008-12-10 17:58:47
63.   Eric Stephen
instead of making Peking Duck end up making Peking Sock

Very nice. I suppose Filet of Sole would have also ensured hilarity.

2008-12-10 17:59:30
64.   regfairfield
If we aren't willing to pay Saito more than Jeremy Affeldt, there is something seriously wrong with us.
2008-12-10 18:01:29
65.   bferb
64 Or something is seriously wrong with Saito
2008-12-10 18:03:04
66.   regfairfield
If Saito throws a pitch next year for another team this was a huge mistake. That's the only way this makes any sense.
2008-12-10 18:06:17
67.   oshea2002
It's tough to tell w/ Saito whether it's injury or being cheap, but after Schmidt and with what happened with Penny, I think it's likely McCourt is likely to be cheap when an injury risk is involved (maybe it's not even being cheap at that point). By that same logic maybe it's why Raffy is only getting a 2 year offer.
2008-12-10 18:07:53
68.   Sam DC
61 Wow, Sheinin just updated that post by dropping the paragraph reporting team officials saying the rumors floating around were wrong and adding that two "industry sources" had told him the offer was 8/160.

How the Nationals go from widely believed and considered too frugal to sign any players of consequence to tossing around an offer like that I have no idea.

Unless they are certain it won't be accepted and are doing this now to set themselves up for the press wars when they sign no one and lose 100 games again.

2008-12-10 18:10:03
69.   CajunDodger
In the Leung article, by the way, it quotes Ned as saying he was not even interested in CC for four years let alone 5, 6, or 7.

Exactly what types of free agents are we looking for? We have signed exactly one long term deal (Pierre) and numerous short term deals (Mueller, Tomko, Schmidt, Jones, Nomar). There isn't a single player on the second list that even performed up to expectations.

Why are we so obsessed with short term deals for free agent detritus?

2008-12-10 18:10:26
70.   regfairfield
That's fine to think that, but seriously, we can't eat a 1/5ish deal if Saito flames out? If you can't justify that, you really can't justify any contract.
2008-12-10 18:14:43
71.   Eric Enders
58 "The Dodgers have offered Saito an incentive-laden one-year contract, but Saito could very well choose to become a free agent."

Um, no, he couldn't.

2008-12-10 18:18:22
72.   Tripon
69 The type of free agents where the Dodgers are the only major party interested, I guess. Its the Dodgers luck that Manny, Furcal, etc. Hasn't gotten the love from teams that some people were expecting.
2008-12-10 18:18:57
73.   trainwreck
A free-agent in Japan.
2008-12-10 18:19:17
74.   trainwreck
I forgot the wink. ; )
2008-12-10 18:19:37
75.   Tripon
8:13pm: Lauber has the deal: the Phils receive catcher Ronny Paulino from the Pirates for Triple A backstop in Jason Jaramillo.

2008-12-10 18:21:28
76.   CanuckDodger
I am happy we are staying away from long-term contracts. It is a sound philosophy overall, even if it means we can't have certain players. I was willing to make an exception for Sabathia, but I am not sure I ever should have made that exception.
2008-12-10 18:22:14
77.   trainwreck
What about when our young guys become free agents?
2008-12-10 18:25:21
78.   Tripon
Lets sign Hu to a 5 year, 5 million dollar contract.
2008-12-10 18:26:34
79.   trainwreck
Assuming they follow your expectations.
2008-12-10 18:29:49
80.   Tripon


2008-12-10 18:30:05
81.   CanuckDodger
77 -- Same philosophy. That is why we can never relax when it comes to stocking the farm with talent. We continually need to replenish. The young talent we have now is fine while we control them and they are cheap, but a point may well come when they cost more than they are worth -- and I say that about all of my favorites, like Billingsley, Loney, etc.
2008-12-10 18:33:43
82.   Tripon
81 You want to be the Marlins?
2008-12-10 18:36:19
83.   Tripon
Since word leaked out that DeRosa might be available, the Cubs have been bombarded with calls from other clubs interested in DeRosa. So some of those teams report that Cubs GM Jim Hendry is telling them he might deal DeRosa separately, but he doesn't really want to deal him at all. So that, said one source, "has opened up a whole 'nother can of worms."


2008-12-10 18:42:38
84.   CanuckDodger
82 -- If we were the Marlins we would be selling off players for prospects, selling off players while they are still in their arbitration years. I am not for that. And I am not against keeping players even past free agent eligibility, but I want us to to try to negotiate reasonable contracts with them. If the players or their agents aren't willing to do that, we have to make go in another direction.
2008-12-10 18:45:17
85.   The Trolley Dodger
According to Ed Price, the Tigers are set to acquire Edwin Jackson from the Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce.

2008-12-10 18:51:30
86.   Tripon
Hard to believe that James McDonald and Edwin Jackson are the same age.
2008-12-10 18:52:52
87.   Andrew Shimmin
Yet another team gives up on Edwin Jackson!
2008-12-10 18:57:09
88.   CanuckDodger
87 -- No, the Rays are just cashing in on their surplus of pitching to get the outfielder they have been looking for. I have heard good things about Joyce. And I think Jackson is arbitration eligible.
2008-12-10 18:59:09
89.   Andrew Shimmin
88- Any time a player I like is traded, it's because the team that had him gave up on him. By definition.
2008-12-10 19:09:27
90.   Tripon
LAS VEGAS -- The Mets, Indians and Mariners are discussing a 12-player trade in which Seattle reliever J.J. Putz would go to the Mets. In the deal being discussed, the Mets would surrender six players, including outfielder Endy Chavez, relief pitcher Aaron Heilman and first base prospect Mike Carp. The Indians would be giving up rightfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

2008-12-10 19:16:21
91.   Eric Enders
Why would the Mariners or Indians want Endy Chavez?
2008-12-10 19:17:41
92.   trainwreck
Someone has got to be interested in Pierre.
2008-12-10 19:19:23
93.   trainwreck
For some reason, the Raiders invited Roger Goodell to watch us get murdered by the Patriots.
2008-12-10 19:28:28
94.   fanerman
If the Mets give up Endy Chavez, they might want Pierre!
2008-12-10 19:30:19
95.   Andrew Shimmin
Fanerman makes a strong, early bid for 2009 BBWAA membership.
2008-12-10 19:37:24
96.   trainwreck
Luke Walton starting???
2008-12-10 19:48:52
97.   oshea2002
Dodgers offered more then 2 years for Furcal?

2008-12-10 19:48:57
98.   I Love LA
Luke Walton sucks, Phil Jackson must be desperate for defense. Isn't that suppose to be Trevor Ariza? They need to get better not worse.
2008-12-10 20:01:29
99.   Jon Weisman

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