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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

What Were They Waiting For?
2008-12-11 16:57
by Jon Weisman

Vin Scully has been voted into the National Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame, reports Andrew Stewart at Variety.

In other news:

  • Former Dodger Wilson Betemit has joined the White Sox on $1.3 million deal, notes Betemit OPSed .718 (86 OPS+) last season with the Yankees. (I failed to mention earlier that Tampa Bay traded Edwin Jackson to the Tigers on Wednesday.)

  • Jonah Keri announced he's going to write a Moneyball-esque (I think that's fair to say) book on the '08 Rays.

  • Comments (114)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-12-11 17:02:28
    1.   underdog
    If the Padres are definitely hell-bent on trading Jake Peavy this off-season, then I think they are indeed better off talking to the Angels anyway. The Angels seem to have a better fit as far as young players that could be expendable but also fill a need for the Padres. More so than the Cubs imho. Not that either team is going to give SD the 6 players for Peavy deal they're looking for.
    2008-12-11 17:06:40
    2.   scareduck
    Title of the Jonah Keri book: "How The Rays DIDN'T Screw Up Their High Draft Picks"
    2008-12-11 17:10:42
    3.   Marty
    Ramirez told a friend that he spends most of his time working out, watching cartoons and playing video games.

    Something tells me Manny is not a deep thinker.

    2008-12-11 17:11:37
    4.   fanerman
    3 Hey man. This is a guy that wakes up EVERY morning at 10:00 AM to go to the gym every day.
    2008-12-11 17:12:36
    5.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    I haven't been keeping up with you fellow DT'ers. What's the general feeling? Is Ned sitting on his hands and costing us, or is he doing the right thing by waiting to get his man and not throwing money simply because he's gotta pay someone?
    2008-12-11 17:13:24
    6.   scareduck
    1 - the Angels don't want to give up what kids they have for another pitcher, and Peavy doesn't want to move to the AL.
    2008-12-11 17:14:11
    7.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    My Word... a piece by Jerry Crasnick of ESPN just went #1 on Digg.
    2008-12-11 17:14:30
    8.   scareduck
    5 - I don't really think there's a consensus.
    2008-12-11 17:14:53
    9.   trainwreck
    Agent Paul Kinzer said that he expects Rafael Furcal to make a decision on his future next week.
    The Dodgers, A's, Blue Jays and Royals are Furcal's known suitors, and the Blue Jays and Royals would both have to make moves to trim payroll in order to have any chance of affording him. It'll probably come down to the Dodgers and A's.
    2008-12-11 17:15:13
    10.   Jim Hitchcock
    0 Vin Scully is still the man I would most like to sit down and have a chat with.
    2008-12-11 17:16:10
    11.   Jim Hitchcock
    3 Hey, as long as the cartoons are the Roadrunner...
    2008-12-11 17:16:28
    12.   Who Is Karim Garcia

    What took them so long?

    2008-12-11 17:20:34
    13.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm guessing that induction to that Hall of Fame requires the inductee to be available to come to some banquet.
    2008-12-11 17:20:49
    14.   bhsportsguy
    From 2001 - 2008, the lowest first round pick the Rays had was number 8.

    2001 - Dewon Brazelton - 3rd overall
    2002 - B.J. Upton - 2nd overall
    2003 - Delmon Young - 1st overall
    2004 - Jeff Neimann - 4th overall
    2005 - Wade Townsend - 8th overall
    2006 - Evan Longoria - 3rd overall
    2007 - David Price - 1st overall
    2008 - Tim Beckham - 1st overall

    2008-12-11 17:23:01
    15.   Bob Timmermann
    The NAB actually has a luncheon. And it will be held on April 21. And it will be in Las Vegas.

    The Dodgers are scheduled to be in Houston that day so Vin would be available.

    2008-12-11 17:28:13
    16.   kinbote
    5 I'll answer that question with a question: What do Ned Colletti, G. W. Bush, and a mallard on crutches have in common?
    2008-12-11 17:29:03
    17.   bhsportsguy
    Maybe Vin can break bread with fellow Hall of Famers like Rick Dees, Paul Harvey, Casey Kasem and Larry King.

    He follows other sports broadcasters, Ted Husing, Graham McNamee, Mel Allen, Red Barber, Harry Carey, and Jack Buck.

    2008-12-11 17:30:08
    18.   bhsportsguy
    16 The limited impression I got in Vegas was that teams were basically waiting for some dominos to fall. I don't think any team wants to bid against itself.
    2008-12-11 17:31:19
    19.   bhsportsguy
    15 My hunch is that Vin would be honored to join such greats from the old radio days and it will please him to join his mentor Red Barber in another Hall of Fame.
    2008-12-11 17:31:36
    20.   Eric Stephen
    Wasn't Betemit in the Swisher deal? I believe his contract simply avoids arbitration.

    Also, I've been wrestling with ToyCannon's statement last thread that Cuttino Mobley was the first "name" free agent signed by the Clippers. I can't think of any better, earlier off the top of my head.

    2008-12-11 17:34:32
    21.   Jacob Burch
    20 Bill Walton.
    2008-12-11 17:35:23
    22.   El Lay Dave
    20 Bill Walton.
    2008-12-11 17:35:42
    23.   El Lay Dave
    2008-12-11 17:36:33
    24.   Samhain
    I think it's beginning to look more and more like Manny may end up with the Dodgers' (with them as his only real suitor).

    Let me say that I have always been a supporter of signing him, if we could at a "reasonable" figure...say 78M for three years with an option on a fourth containing an opt-out by either side. If it is true that the Angels have no real interest in Manny, then we may able to low ball and get him for less.
    Which is going to make Manny one p.o'd ballplayer.

    My question--even as a Manny fan--is:
    do we really WANT a disgruntled Manny Ramirez?

    To my surprise I find myself thinking that I probably don't.
    I believe we wouldn't be competitive over the long haul of the 2009 season without his power bat.
    But would we be competitive with him acting out his displeasure?

    2008-12-11 17:39:54
    25.   Eric Stephen
    Bill Walton was acquired by the Clips via trade?
    2008-12-11 17:40:21
    26.   Eric Stephen
    That was a Ron Burgundy moment. No question mark needed there.
    2008-12-11 17:43:36
    27.   El Lay Dave
    26 Yes it was.
    Transactions: Signed with San Diego Clippers (5/13/79);

    2008-12-11 17:45:34
    28.   scareduck
    18 - unless you're the Dodgers (viz Casey Blake and the Case of the Mysterious Third Year).
    2008-12-11 17:46:53
    29.   El Lay Dave
    27 On the other hand, that same page also says Many Clippers were outraged at the price the team had to pay to acquire the injury-plagued, 26-year-old Walton: forward Kermit Washington, center Kevin Kunnert, a first-round draft pick and $350,000.
    2008-12-11 17:48:18
    30.   Eric Stephen
    This must have been in the early FA days for the NBA, where signing teams had to give crazy compensation. From the same article:

    Many Clippers were outraged at the price the team had to pay to acquire the injury-plagued, 26-year-old Walton: forward Kermit Washington, center Kevin Kunnert, a first-round draft pick and $350,000.

    I want to say the Lakers got the draft pick to get Magic as part of the compensation for Gail Goodrich signing with New Orleans, but I'll have to double check that.

    2008-12-11 17:48:18
    31.   Jacob Burch
    25 Someone has to explain this. Every article I find says it was a Free Agent signing but that they had compensation of players and draft picks afterwards--what were the rules back then?
    2008-12-11 17:49:02
    32.   Eric Stephen
    Dave, Jacob, and Eric: all on the same wavelength tonight.
    2008-12-11 17:50:12
    33.   underdog
    MLBTR's Tim Dierkes kicks in on the latest Manny-ness:

    >>Ken Davidoff writes that Manny is feeling ignored on the free agent market, and will consider retiring if he doesn't receive a good offer soon.

    I give this about a 0.3% chance of being a legitimate threat, and about a 99.7% chance that this is the old cliche of Manny being Manny at this point.<<

    2008-12-11 17:53:22
    34.   trainwreck
    On a radio show today, Cole Hamels said the Phillies did not fear the Mets because they are choke artists.
    2008-12-11 17:53:29
    35.   Duranimal
    There doesn't appear to be that much interest from other teams, so I assume we will sign Manny.

    With Furcal, it seems 50 / 50. If we sign him, I think it will blow our budget for a free agent starting pitcher. Since the big guns all seem close to signing with other teams any way, I think we should make a push for Furcal.

    That leaves our rotation as fairly average for next year, but Hu / DeJesus could get us some type of arm.

    2008-12-11 17:54:49
    36.   jonahkeri
    "Title of the Jonah Keri book: "How The Rays DIDN'T Screw Up Their High Draft Picks""


    I'm totally stealing that title.

    2008-12-11 17:55:23
    37.   Eric Stephen
    David Stern was on the "B.S. Report" podcast yesterday, and alluded to the early days of free agency. In 1976 or so, Stern was an attorney working for the league when it reached an 11-year bargaining agreement with the players. For the first 4 or so years, there was compensation for free agents signing with other clubs.

    I was right about the Goodrich-Magic connection:

    In a complex and controversial deal, Cooke allowed him to sign with the Jazz in return for two future first-round draft choices and a second-round pick. The trade, although criticized at the time, paid off for the Lakers a few years later, when they used one of the picks from the Jazz to select Magic Johnson No. 1 overall in the 1979 NBA Draft

    2008-12-11 17:58:47
    38.   ToyCannon
    The San Diego Clippers are not the Los Angeles Clippers or I'd be talking about the Buffalo Braves. You don't see a Bob McAdoo Jersey hanging at Staples do you? Unlike others I don't include a teams history once they move from the city that supported them. In my mind my point still stands.
    2008-12-11 17:59:57
    39.   Samhain
    35 I am not optimistic we'll land Furcal.

    I say that Randy Johnson for one year is a classic Ned move, especially if Ned can overpay for him. (wink)
    I actually think Big Unit is good for slightly more than 10 wins for us. So I am not really opposed...

    2008-12-11 18:00:12
    40.   trainwreck
    Would have been Arenas, but the coin flipped the wrong way.
    2008-12-11 18:01:58
    41.   fanerman
    38 Eric Piatkowski doesn't count?
    2008-12-11 18:03:25
    42.   Eric Stephen
    You don't see a Bob McAdoo Jersey hanging at Staples do you?

    No, but they do have the 1982 & 1985 banners. :)

    I'm still amazed that Mobley may in fact be the first halfway-decent LAC free agent.

    2008-12-11 18:03:38
    43.   Jacob Burch
    38 I assume franchise-wide unless specified. Most "Best Dodger" lists I see always include Brooklyn players unless LA is labeled somewhere, but to each their own.
    2008-12-11 18:05:02
    44.   ToyCannon
    We drafted Pike and then he left us as a Free Agent as everyone else has ever done until we moved into Staples.
    2008-12-11 18:06:47
    45.   Eric Stephen
    Pete Arbogast called the first two games in LA Clipper history. How do you do?
    2008-12-11 18:06:50
    46.   bhsportsguy
    36 But and maybe this makes your book even more interesting, without the Longoria and Price picks, I'd argue that their first round picks, given their draft position, was fair.
    2008-12-11 18:07:26
    47.   bhsportsguy
    45 So its fair for you to bring up Pete but when I do it, I get warned?
    2008-12-11 18:09:21
    48.   fanerman
    44 Pike was drafted by the Bulls and traded to the Clips. He played 9 seasons for them. Gotta be a free agent contract in there somewhere, right?
    2008-12-11 18:09:30
    49.   Eric Stephen
    More on the Mobley signing from LAist a few years back. The title supports ToyCannon:

    Well, since the Clippers moved to Los Angeles in 1984, they have signed three players who are even slightly notable - Jamal Wilkes in 1985, Sherman Douglas in 1999, and Glen Rice in 2003. At the time though, all of those players were well past their primes, and none of them had any impact whatsoever, playing a combined 61 games

    2008-12-11 18:10:38
    50.   fanerman
    By Bulls, I obviously mean Pacers.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-12-11 18:11:21
    51.   Eric Stephen
    I think I may get you a Pete Arbogast t-shirt as a bet payment!
    2008-12-11 18:11:36
    52.   trainwreck
    I totally forgot Glen Rice was on Clippers.
    2008-12-11 18:12:11
    53.   ToyCannon
    Rays were built on trades or free agent signings of other teams number one picks (Pena, Garza, Kazmir) as much as their own astute picks. Shields was considered nothing in the fall of 2005 and probably only got a chance because the Rays were so lousy. In the AFL that year he might have been the best pitcher I saw but I couldn't get anyone to say he was going to be a major league pitcher.
    2008-12-11 18:13:29
    54.   I Love LA
    Fantasy questions - should I dart Frank Gore? Should I start Marshawn Lynch? My 3 rd option is Hightower or I can get choice from waiver. Gore is game time decision so I'm scared. Lynch has been crappy lately.

    WR- TJ, Jennings, d. Bowe, Desean jackson, A. Bryant.

    Out of those 5, which 3 should I use?
    TE- Cooley or Boss?

    2008-12-11 18:14:17
    55.   ToyCannon
    I don't make this stuff up.
    2008-12-11 18:16:58
    56.   ToyCannon
    Pike was the number one pick of the Pacers in 1994 and traded to us. He never played for another team until Houston signed him as a free agent at the age of 33.
    2008-12-11 18:19:00
    57.   fanerman
    56 So you mean players signed by the Clippers that weren't Clippers before they signed with the Clippers. Just making sure.
    2008-12-11 18:19:45
    58.   El Lay Dave
    Here's a cool site:

    The Clips FA signings are truly awful.

    2008-12-11 18:21:28
    59.   ToyCannon
    The conversation was only related to free agents.
    2008-12-11 18:23:55
    60.   regfairfield
    Did anyone try to buy tickets to Acoustic Christmas? Did anyone actually succeed?

    How the hell does a concert sell out in less than 10 seconds?

    2008-12-11 18:26:37
    61.   fanerman
    59 If he was there for 9 years, wouldn't Piatkowski have been a free agent at some point during his Clipper career and then chose to re-sign with them? I remember hearing about how he chose to stay with them when he could have left and I was completely shocked and developed a new level of respect for him then.
    2008-12-11 18:26:57
    62.   Jacob Burch
    Acoustic Christmas does not get my seal of approval this, or any year.
    2008-12-11 18:33:19
    63.   ToyCannon
    We signed him to an extension when he was a restricted free agent and I don't qualify Pike as a good player.

    If you want me to say that Pike was better then Cutino it is not going to happen. He had one skill and one skill only.

    2008-12-11 18:37:29
    64.   Bob Timmermann
    Anybody who can get Ralph Lawler to yell "BINGOOOOOOO!!!!!!!" has a marketable skill.
    2008-12-11 18:38:22
    65.   fanerman
    63 That's why I started with "Piatkowski doesn't count?".
    2008-12-11 18:40:45
    66.   Tripon
    Don't know if it was mentioned yet, but local radio station 710 ESPN Radio acquired the Lakers radio rights. This bumps Clippers off ESPN radio, and maybe force Mychal Thompson to choose between his radio show, or being part of the Lakers radio team next year.
    2008-12-11 18:49:39
    67.   Marty
    In the last poker thoughts discussion someone recommended for a rakeback site. But it doesn't appear they offer a rakeback program for PokerStars. Anyone know a site that does?
    2008-12-11 18:49:41
    68.   fanerman
    Since I bothered to look up Piatkowski's already, here are some numbers:

    Piatkowski career PER: 14.0
    Mobley career PER: 14.4

    Piatkowski season high PER: 18.2
    Mobley season high PER: 17.7

    Piatkowski's career PER also includes the last few years where he's declined a ton. But he's still shooting 3's at a 42% clip this year.

    2008-12-11 18:51:20
    69.   fanerman
    68 Of course factoring usage and what not, Mobley is certainly better. But Piatkowski's had a legit career and I've always kinda liked him. And of course there's the BINGOOOOO thing.
    2008-12-11 18:52:44
    70.   Xeifrank
    Great trade by the Rays today in getting Joyce, and great analysis of the trade over at FanGraphs by Dave Cameron (USSM fame). It would be great to see one of the Yankees or Red Sox miss the playoffs again next year. I am getting sick of the Red Sox success, but I think I'd get more pleasure in watching the Yankees miss the playoffs again, especially if they keep unloading the cash to all the best free agents this offseason. vr, Xei
    2008-12-11 18:53:46
    71.   Jacob Burch
    67 Does not exist, and probably never will. The 'edge' of stars is the game availability and the points reward system, which is better than most sites.

    My FTP Account is tainted from Rakeback (they apparently can't tell me why, just that I can't get it). So It's stars or nothing else for me, as I don't trust any of the other rakeback sites. I could attempt to make a second account, but I'd be paranoid to have more than $50 on there.

    Played 4/8 stud at commerce last weekend and had a blast.

    2008-12-11 18:54:27
    72.   Tripon
    The Yankees will have a $500 million payroll in 2009.
    2008-12-11 18:58:41
    73.   Marty
    I played 4-8 holdem at Commerce a couple weeks ago. I made $120 and had a lot of fun as it was a very friendly table. A few years ago I used to go to Commerce a couple times a week. They didn't have no-limit then, it was all structured.
    2008-12-11 18:59:42
    74.   scareduck
    36 - LOL!
    2008-12-11 19:00:27
    75.   scareduck
    70 - Re the Sawx: you and me both, brother.
    2008-12-11 19:05:49
    76.   Jacob Burch
    73 Made 400 or so playing Stud. Was a bizarre table--I was the youngest player by about 20 years would be my guess. Maybe someone that was in their older 30s. Most of them knew what they were doing, but the couple that didn't...
    2008-12-11 19:32:20
    77.   das411
    Hahahahaha 34 gets no argument at all! Especially since they just traded their clutchiest OFer for a guy named Putz....

    70 , so you also want Teixieiria to sign with the Orioles then?

    2008-12-11 19:35:14
    78.   dzzrtRatt
    Manny shouldn't be disgruntled if he comes back to the Dodgers, since unlike the other 29 teams, we made a bid for him.

    He signs with LA, then spends the next three years punishing all the teams that "weren't interested." I'll take that.

    2008-12-11 19:51:11
    79.   fordprefect
    forgot to mention re: the XTC ref. the other night--- you're a man after my own heart.
    If Manny signs with us after not being pursued by anyone else(unlikely to absurd, those chances) he might not be too pleased w/ McParkinglot and decide to take it out in bizarre ways like he did last season in Texas.
    As others have pointed out in this thread alone, not a deep thinker, Manny.
    2008-12-11 20:09:12
    80.   jtshoe
    Perhaps Manny is thinking that by suggesting retirement that the Dodgers may offer a bit more, because if he were to retire, then no draft picks for the Dodgers.
    2008-12-11 20:10:05
    81.   Tripon
    Manny signs the Dodgers $45 million fully guaranteed contract, and then retires.
    2008-12-11 20:13:24
    82.   scareduck
    79 - and by way of reflexive admiration, love your nick!
    2008-12-11 20:15:48
    83.   Bob Hendley
    Apart from a relatively svelte Druw, the photo on the tarmac in the DR also showed Rafi lugging around his young son, so he's back must be feeling pretty good.

    Not signing Furcal would mean that the Bums will need a lead-off hitter. Bison seemed to fill that role fairly well when Rafi was hurt, though I always pictured him as a power hitting corner. I would suspect that Torre in particular would try to get him to cut down on k's in that slot, which might result in a plate approach that would leave his power potential untapped, as it were.

    2008-12-11 20:16:56
    84.   Eric Enders
    Eleven years after inducting Rush Limbaugh, I'm glad the National Association of Broadcasters finally got around to Vin Scully.
    2008-12-11 20:27:03
    85.   Tripon
    Top Chef Thoughts: When the heck did this show become about hooking up?
    2008-12-11 20:28:34
    86.   trainwreck
    Well no one really is. They just need some side story lines.
    2008-12-11 20:32:03
    87.   Marty
    RIP Bettie Page
    2008-12-11 20:43:03
    88.   Tripon
    86 Its hilarious that Stephan is trying to get into Jamie's pants half-heartily. He's clearly doing it, and everything on this show because he doesn't care to make any relationships outside of his man crush on Fabio.
    2008-12-11 20:43:51
    89.   dzzrtRatt
    87 Gretchen Mol's portrayal of Ms. Page is one of my favorite performances of the past few years. Just so casually sexy and real, playing such an odd character.
    2008-12-11 20:49:48
    90.   trainwreck
    I like his nickname for Hosea.
    2008-12-11 20:53:59
    91.   Tripon

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – Bernard Madoff, a quiet force on Wall Street for decades, was arrested and charged on Thursday with allegedly running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme in what may rank among the biggest frauds ever.

    That's a whoa right there.

    2008-12-11 21:02:12
    92.   kinbote
    The Manny negotiations, or non-negotiations, haven't held up the Dodger plans, in large part because general manager Ned Colletti and his aides are barely involved in any Manny talks. Owner Frank McCourt is handling things. No one knows for sure how much money he'll spend, but some people in the organization believe it will eventually be enough to get a deal done.

    2008-12-11 21:12:36
    93.   DBrim
    92 - If they don't trust Ned to handle such things, why is he still GM?
    2008-12-11 21:15:40
    94.   DBrim
    10:56pm: Axelrod suggestion the Giants as a possible destination for Peavy in a talk with Tim Sullivan. He said, "I think they've got the money. But I don't know if they've got the prospects."

    Peavy and Lincecum at the top of a rotation? I don't care how bad their offense is, if they ended up with Peavy they'd probably win the west.

    2008-12-11 21:21:21
    95.   scareduck
    93 - but hasn't it been at least hinted at since the trade deadline? Ned has no checkbook.
    2008-12-11 21:24:08
    96.   trainwreck
    They got the prospects, but they are years away and Padres do not value high school arms as much.
    2008-12-11 21:34:24
    97.   Eric Enders
    The Giants have plenty of prospects whom the Padres should value. Angel Villalona, Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, Connor Gillaspie. The latter two would have to be PTBNLs, though.
    2008-12-11 21:37:34
    98.   Icaros
    And of course the Padres won't give SF the Dodgers treatment by demanding Lincecum or Cain.
    2008-12-11 21:39:51
    99.   Zak
    94 Just like Webb and Haren did? Let's put it this way... with their offense and bullpen from last year, they can add Peavy and still finish 3rd.
    2008-12-11 21:45:00
    100.   DBrim
    99 - Lincecum + Peavy is much better than Webb + Haren.

    It's probably immaterial, though, because it doesn't look this this even qualifies as "rumor" at this point.

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2008-12-11 21:56:10
    101.   Eric Stephen
    Lincecum + Peavy is much better than Webb + Haren

    Comparing the two combos is just splitting hairs at this point. Any advantage Lincecum/Peavy might -- might -- have is mitigated somewhat by the durability advantage of Webb/Haren (last 4 years avg 232 IP & 220 IP) over Peavy (201 IP avg).

    2008-12-11 21:57:26
    102.   Eric Enders
    By the way, it appears from the link that Keri's book will actually be on the 2009 Rays. He hasn't actually started research or interviews yet.
    2008-12-11 22:00:10
    103.   Eric Stephen
    Sounds like Bernard Madoff with quite a lot of money over the years!
    2008-12-11 22:06:56
    104.   Kevin Lewis
    One more day until Vegas. Any good feelings about the NFL this weekend? I will definitely hit up the low limit poker tables and maybe some tourneys or a sit n go.
    2008-12-11 22:14:04
    105.   Marty
    I'll be in Vegas the day after Christmas. I plan to hit some nice restaurants and mix in a little dice.
    2008-12-11 22:15:38
    106.   Eric Enders
    I was there last month and won my first-ever poker tournament.
    2008-12-11 22:26:51
    107.   Xeifrank
    106. Congrats! Will we be seeing you on TV? Or one of those in-flight entertainment shows?
    vr, Xei
    2008-12-11 22:31:11
    108.   Eric Enders
    107 Oh, no. It was small-time stuff ($65 buy-in). I did win enough to pay for about half of my new laptop, so I was happy.
    2008-12-11 22:32:47
    109.   Xeifrank
    Speaking of blood-money, looks like tomorrow will be a rough day on Wall Street tomorrow. But isn't that the new normal for Wall Street?
    vr, Xei
    2008-12-11 22:37:10
    110.   scareduck
    109 - Asian markets down, and now some new jackass saying he took his clients for a ride in a multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme. Joy.
    2008-12-11 22:43:02
    111.   MC Safety
    I'm headed to Blackhawk, CO for some snowboarding and throwing my money away the first week of January!
    2008-12-11 22:49:00
    112.   Tripon
    110 Its okay, I'm sure the guy who ran the Ponzi scheme will get a gov't bailout.
    2008-12-11 22:51:11
    113.   Jon Weisman
    2008-12-12 02:16:16
    114.   PDH5204
    70 Might I disagree?

    Note the one comment here re the only Tigers' pitcher having a higher VORP last year being Armando Galarraga:

    Now note that our problem solved RF, or so Dave claims, well, his SLG against lefties last year was .318. As my man Brickhaus notes in the comments to the piece below, take out the one freak year, and our man Matt's OPS against lefties in the minors was .650 or so. The first comment here sums up Joyce for me:

    The problem for the Rays in RF last year, and at DH, was that none could hit the lefty. Unless the freak becomes the norm, Matt isn't likely to change that and so the problem isn't solved.

    And contrary to Dave's report, Edwin's departure does not, repeat, does not "open" a rotation spot. Price won his job at the end of last year, as did Sonny, as evidenced by Sonny and not Edwin being in the rotation for the playoffs and WS.
    And what with the logjam already in place and Niemann, Talbot, Hellickson, and Davis waiting in the wings, Edwin was truly expendable.

    On the plus side for the Rays, Matt costs less and has options.

    So call it Mr. Expendable, he of the 4.42 ERA that was below the Tigers' team ERA of 4.90, for Mr. Platoon RF, he of the .318 SLG against the lefty, which the Rays had in Hinske, Gross, et al. The move can only be considered huge win for the Rays, well, if and only if the money being saved on Matt in lieu of one or more of Hinske, Gross, and Floyd is used to acquire, say, Milton Bradley, and a right bat OF platoon partner [as Milton's being made of glass mandates a role for him as full-time DH].

    Oh, and if you correspond with Dave, ask him to consider why he's spending time arguing "best player". Dire need trumps best player here(imagine the Tigers' improved record with a team ERA shrunk from 4.90 to 4.42)(and maybe consider that the Rays were 18-14 in Edwin's 32 starts and they scored 47 less runs on the year than the Tigers)(and 18-14 over 160 games gives one 90 wins). The Tigers will score their 821 runs without Mr. Joyce and they might improve on the 5.29 allowed per game with Edwin (857 runs allowed). The Rays save some money, get some options, but still have the problem of the RF who seems to SLG .318 against the lefty. So the right-handed bat that was at issue all last year, still remains. So it isn't huge win versus big thumbs down as Dave would have us believe.

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