I have partisan interests in both cases, but at this point, I don't care either way. Just get it over with.

That Tron-Tron to Carmona comparison would be sweet.

38 innings.

How can you base any projections based on 38 MLB innings?

30.2 IP
4.7 BB/9
5.3 K/9

Sure, the guy somehow put up way better numbers in MLB than AAA last year, but until Troncoso puts more innings under his belt, it'll be hard to determine how good he is.

Minor league numbers and scouting do support what Tron Tron did in the majors.

Well...besides Vegas...

He has done well at every stop of not giving up homers though.

That's more than enough reason to be enthusiastic about Troncoso, regardless of his numbers.

With backup starters of Stults(29)/Schmidt(36)/Elbert(23)/Castillo(24)/Miller(24)/Orenduff(25)

Bullpen
Garate (24)
Elbert (23)
Schlichting (24)
Wade (25)
Broxton (24)
Kuo (27)
Stults (29) long Relief
Castillo (24) long Relief (7-4 3.24 era at Jax)

Here are 17 pitchers from the Dodgers current 40 man roster. Maybe it is time to give them a chance,
rather than throwing more money at Free Agents or our talent at questionable trades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQ5bSA3A1I

Speaking of food, I got up at 5am this morning to make chili verde for a holiday potluck at work. The crock pot is on in the office next to me, and is making the office smell really good.

It's now Wednesday!

I feel deceived

They seem to be getting the kinks out as far as service goes, and its still under construction inside...but the beer selection is excellent and the sausages are quite good. Could be a good post-work/pre-Dodger Stadium stop next season.

Having Chimay White and Karmeliet on tap doesn't hurt the prospects of us going soon...

I have heart burn alreay

I get a lot of my jambalaya and etouffee supplies here, and they sell alligator sausage too: http://tinyurl.com/5w42kx

"I nominate Stylez G. White for best NFL name change of '08"
http://tinyurl.com/6m988

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/12/17/furcal_matter_h.html

Otherwise, I sentence you to watch "Teen Wolf Too" as further punishment.

Also, The Nickel Diner on Main between 5th and 6th is excellent. Amazing pulled pork sandwich. The pastry chef worked for Thomas Keller too.

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(From Buster Olney:)
>>One official involved in the Rafael Furcal negotiations drew this comparison. "First, Furcal was dating the A's," the official said. "Then, on Monday night, he got engaged to the Braves. And now, the ex-husband -- the Dodgers -- has come back into the picture."<<

At any rate, it's really not worth revisiting but it's on MJD's Shutdown Corner blog on Yahoo Sports, if anyone cares.

http://tinyurl.com/6m988a

About 50 of us used to chip in $40 apiece and have this guy come in and boil them for us in a special rig he had. It was a 500 gallon pot he made from thin-walled refinery pipe. He had it suspended from two cranes mounted on a car trailer with the largest gas burner under it I ever saw (it was the size of a car hood).

He would boil them for us in 750 pound batches.

11:35am: Yahoo's Tim Brown: Furcal is "nearing an agreement with the Dodgers."

From MLBTR.

Here we go again!

Furcal's back situation has me feeling like Russel Crowe after the seizure scene in 'Romper Stomper'.

I want to see Hu/DeJesus personally.

I'm even MORE worried about an Omar Vizquel signing.

"The Yankees today came to terms with Rafael Furcal on a 4 year $70 million contract. They then took advantage of the Dodgers ensuing desperation by trading them Derek Jeter and Melky Cabrera for a package that included Corey Wade, Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw, Ramon Troncoso, and Andrew Lambo."

Oh never mind.

As for the Furcal news, I believe it when it's signed, preferably in blood, and then that parchment is sealed in wax and sent by horseback to the commissioner's office. (Although Tim Brown is usually more accurate than some of the other guys...)

Although you may just be upset with me as I almost steered a conversation about Apple computers into A University To Not Be Named In Indiana. Luckily, IJ went with IU, and any mention was avoided.

Fingers crossed..

If this goes through, the man is gonna receive his share of boos in Atlanta. But who cares -- they still do the Tomahawk Chop there, too.

According to sources familiar with the negotiations, talks between team owner Frank McCourt, general manager Ned Colletti and agent Arn Tellem progressed to the point both sides believed a deal would be struck.

The Dodgers' offer had been at two years with an option for a third. They improved their original offer in the last 24 hours, according to a source, though it is unknown if they guaranteed the third year or increased the contract's average annual value.

Furcal SS
Ethier LF
Martin C
Loney 1B
Kemp RF
Blake 3B
DeWitt 2B
Jones CF

This is decent.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12172008/sports/moresports/dodgers_take_lead_for_furcal_144643.htm

It's looking good!

I think a healthy Furcal would still be a solid 3rd behind Tex and Manny, with a chance to edge Manny's total contract value. Tex is going to get a mega-deal, probably at least 8/160. The best Furcal could have received would probably be something like 6/90 or something like that.

57,
I think you may be joking but obviously Furcal would have goten nowhere near the contracts of CC and Tex even if he had stayed healthy because he is not close to as good as they are. He is also older than both of them by a few years.

2yrs is fine.
But DeJesus is the SS of the future, and Furcal's either not been good or hurt the last 2/3 years.

*No Cabrera = keep our 1st rounder
*No Pierre = Torre won't feel the need to use him

I have no problem with that.

Hell, if Furcal is healthy for all three of those years, it's a good problem to have.

OK, maybe he is.

The Infield could be DeWitt-Furcal-DeJesus-First baseman not to be named, with CBlake doing OF or super-utility duties.

http://tinyurl.com/57djjx

I think it's less a physical than it was Furcal's hesitation about possibly having to play 2nd that may have soured him on Atlanta.

Also, I feel like Casey Blake will only be a starter for a year of the 2 yr contract. Following year I could see DeWitt moving to 3rd and DeJesus or Hu playing 2nd. For now, Hu can be the defensive specialist who spells Furcal, as noted above, and DeJesus can have another year of seasoning.

This also gives us a leadoff hitter who is not Juan Pierre (or Matt Kemp, who I love but would prefer batting 2, 3 or 5.)

Darnit, I was just getting back to work when Jon had to post the Conchords link. Thanks a lot!

I am still a touch concerned with Ethier/Kemp's position on the team with $31M still invested in Pierre and Jones.

...Well, hopefully not DeJesus, but I think this means that Hu's days as a Dodger are numbered.

How much longer can they hold out?

His name is Loney... James Loney. Some know him as Wild Bird.

True, but if he's hurt 2/3 years & its another 10 mils sitting there that could be used for something better. Considering the McCourt's financial problems, this is a big issue.

17 mils a year can buy 1 great player.

Or Andruw Jones.

Mets want Lowe, and are trying to clear salary to get him.

111 My understanding is that the Bucs are only lukewarm on Hu and Pee Wee, and would demand pitching from us as well.

I want the Mets' 1st rounder.

--

I'd do Snell for Hu and Young in a heartbeat, much as I like the latter two. Don't think the Pirates would, though.

http://tinyurl.com/64jq53

127 - I expressed reservations about Schmidt.

"Schmidt is a talented pitcher, but he is surely expensive - that projected salary is almost twice what Derek Lowe makes - and does not come without risk. Turning 34 in January with nearly 2,000 career innings, Schmidt in 2006 saw his strikeout rate drop to its lowest point since 2000."

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/565499.html

And plenty of people have, at least until last week, let Colletti off the hook for Schmidt and Jones.

123 As Underdog answered, K-Rod is. Ranking of possibly-effecting free agents:

CC > Manny > Burnett > K-Rod > OCab > Lowe

If Furcal keeps the team financially from signing Manny/Burrell/Abreu, also No.

138
I don't think Pierre gets traded unless Manny is signed.

Realistically, Ned has more-or-less said the plan is to get another starter-worthy Middle infielder--and that it has to be done before any pie-in-the-sky Manny deal. Of presently feasible solutions (trade for a Wilson-type, Sign OCab, Sign Furcal), most of us will take the latter.

Because I think they can afford Manny and Furcal.

We resigned Blake and Loretta for about 7 million this year, assuming that we're going to have a similar budget for 09. I'd say the Dodgers have around 30 million left to spend.

I wonder if Furcal is a good fielder? +/- says yes, UZR says no.

https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jpdFAJerfWVRAUxSw26hlniYnp0gD954KI500

Rafael Furcal's agent said the shortstop was likely to decide Wednesday whether to sign with the Atlanta Braves or the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Paul Kinzer had said Tuesday that Furcal was close to accepting the Braves' offer.

"They know we didn't have a signed contract, that we didn't have even a verbal agreement. We had, `Things look very good and Raffy's going to sleep on it,'" Kinzer said after a news conference for another client, Francisco Rodriguez.

So now he's going to decide today. It sounds like Furcal is going to take a nap this afternoon, because he's still going to sleep on it.

Simers has another article on the Dodgers.

Starters
C - Martin - $8m (4th year; 2nd year arb)
1B - Loney - $3.5m (1st year arb)
2B - DeWitt - $425k (2nd year)
SS - Furcal - $10m (estimated)
3B - Blake - $6m
LF - Manny - $22.5m (estimated)
CF - Kemp - $3.5m (1st year arb)
RF - Ethier - $5m (4th year; 2nd year arb)
Total Starters - $58.925m

Bench
OF - Delwyn Young - $500k
OF - Pierre - $10m (even if he's gone most of this salary will be paid)
C - John Q. Backstop - $1m
1B - Mark Sweeney Type - $1m
IF - Abreu - $500k (3rd year)
IF - Hu - $400k (2nd year)
Total Bench - $13.4m

Starting Pitching
Billingsley - $4m (1st year arb)
Kuroda - $13m
Kershaw - $425k (2nd year)
McDonald - $400k (2nd year)
Wile E. Veteran - $10m
Total Starting Pitching - $27.825m

Bullpen
Broxton - $4m (2nd year arb)
Kuo - $2m (1st year arb)
Wade - $500k (2nd year -- he will be Super Two in 2011)
Troncoso - $425k (2nd year)
Elbert - $500k (2nd year)
Seanez Type - $1m
Total Bullpen - $8.425m

Detritus
Nomar - $1.25m (part of deferred signing bonus)
Total Detritus - $1.25m

Total 2010 Payroll (estimated) - $109.825m

I'm sure I missed something, but that's a reasonable estimate of 2010.

This was before we signed anyone so you can start plugging in Loretta/Blake and maybe even Rafy.

Jones - $5M Bonus
Schmidt - $2.625M (estimate) Bonus

That ad foils me again!

Of course, the NFL is heading towards a labor showdown in 2010 and this off-season could be very interesting if they play it without a CBA.

What if his back doesn't hold up.
What if he is injured the entire leght (sp) of the contract.
What if he is damaged goods.
What if he is to old to come back after back sergury &
playing a premium position.

______

What if's are little red flags to me...

Not to say it's not a big if, but it does sound singular.

185 Ah, for some reason I thought he was a free agent. Well, I don't think they're all that beholden to him, he'll probably still have to battle for that backup spot and I recall Ned saying Ellis would get a look next year. Nothing against Ardoin, though.

Oh ok

What if's can go both ways.

From Baseball Prospectus, the rest is premium content.

The speed at which baseball news travels and creates the potential for controversy never ceases to amaze. Even comments made at an agricultural trade show in North Dakota can generate headlines in a matter of moments.

Twins manager Ron Gardenhire was making a public appearance at a show in Fargo earlier this month when he was asked how he planned to fit four outfielders into three starting spots next season. He gave a typically candid answer, saying that he would prefer to have a starting outfield of Michael Cuddyer, Carlos Gomez, and Denard Span, which would leave Delmon Young as the odd man out. "Those three guys need to play every day," Gardenhire said. "Delmon is in the mix. He's a helluva player, a helluva talent, but to me, those three guys should be your outfield, and you go from there." The remarks were dutifully reported by the Fargo Forum, and off they went.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1130

NCAA vs. baseball player over the role of 'advisers'. If Andy Oliver wins the case, this is going to have some big spillover to the sports with more stringent regulations over hiring agents/declaring for the drafts such as college football and college basketball.

SportsNation Aaron Fitt: It's awfully thin -- there's a precipitous dropoff after about No. 6. That's not such a bad thing -- I'd rather have a bevy of young talent in the majors than a highly ranked farm system. But wasting high picks on guys like Preston Mattingly and Luke Hochever doesn't help.

A's are staying with Crosby.

Here's a suggestion for a pool:

On what day will Scott Boras allow Manny Ramirez to sign his contract?

I'm going to guess Jan.15, 2009

This article in the NY Daily News has a couple of unnamed "baseball officials" speculating that the Yankees are going to be "going hard" for Manny. $25 million for 2 or 3 years are the numbers they toss around.

The accompanying web poll is kinda funny in its banality:

Should the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez?

32% - Yes, they need someone who is a winner
16% - No, Manny being Manny is not worth it
6% - If they can get him for cheap
12% - It depends on the years, not the money
34% - Forget Manny, get Mark Teixeira

The award for Best Thread Killing Comment goes to 221 !

Congratulations, Disabled List!

I wouldn't call a #40 pick for Hochevar a waste. His talent made him worth taking a shot, and we were very close.

Thanks for that Boras, btw, and for all that you have done to try to ruin the game of baseball.

What is the WAR projection for Manny and Dunn next year as a LF? What does that equate to for a dollar value in their contracts?

The worst thing about it is that that money could be put to smarter use. The Dodgers aren't the Yankees. There IS a budget constraint. We don't know exactly what it is, but tying up big money to guys unlikely to play very much seems a dumb idea.

If Furcal magically recovers and plays 150 games for 3 years at All-Star level, it will have been a good deal and I will have been wrong. But that's unlikely.

I don't necessarily think it's the smartest, shrewdest move, but I'm not sure it's an awful one either.

An aside, I apologize to the DT community becasue I failed to ask Jim Tracy last week in Vegas what the heck he was thinking when he moved Jason Phillips to first base.

Lisa Guerrero has a piece on LAT's blog about a pitcher she and DT readers may be familiar with:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/lisa-guerrero-c.html

Which of course, we know, means absolutely nothing til a press conference

Furcal, the top free-agent shortstop on the open market this year, has decided to sign with the Dodgers, major-league sources say. Furcal had been debating for the last two days between the Dodgers and the Braves.

Terms of the deal were not yet available.

On Tuesday, it appeared that Furcal had all but decided to go back to Atlanta, the team for whom he played his first six MLB seasons. The Braves offered a three-year deal worth approximately $30 million, according to major-league sources, and included a vesting option for a fourth year that likely will push the potential value to $40 million.

The A's are believed to have made the high offer for Furcal — four years guaranteed in the $40 million range, according to major-league sources.

Furcal, 31, left the Braves for the Dodgers after the 2005 season, signing a three-year, $39 million free-agent contract. The Dodgers had been reluctant to re-sign him long-term due to medical concerns._

http://tinyurl.com/4a8b6o

I've changed my mind. Furcal is now signing with the Dodgers. According to my sources.

Yours faithfully,
KR

With all of Rosenthal's hot stove madness, and the hourly blog he ran during the winter meetings, I think he has made up his mind that he's gonna be "the first" guy, no matter how credible his info is.

I'm serious. I have no time to do this myself, of course, but I think the internet, like most markets, can be self-correcting. A scoring system for mongers could be developed. At the very least, it might lead the mongers to use more careful language when mongering.

from where I sit, he is on the right side of 30

The information sounds a few hours old, at least.

The onomatopoeic, "woof" and "bark" always make me laugh.

I get the woo in woof, but how people got the pronounced "f" and "b" sound cracks me up.

Though, with all the talking dogs in Hollywood, I think my enunciation isn't anything to brag about.

does that mean we have to hear that "apples and bananas" song at Dodger games now?

"Go right.
No, go left.
Wait, go forward.
No, backward.
Stay where you are.
See, I told you I knew the way."

Do you think mommy dearest is any less thrilled with Raffy treating her with his almost assuredly "upped" contract from the Dodgers?

The Dodgers and Furcal were still hammering out an agreement Wednesday afternoon, sources said, but the Braves had been informed that Furcal would not accept their deal.

The Dodgers and Furcal were still hammering out an agreement Wednesday afternoon, sources said, but the Braves had been informed that Furcal would not accept their deal.

"We all still have our fingers crossed that it will work out."

http://insidethedodgers.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/best_laid_plans.html

"Ned will be on Petros & Money today at 5:30 on KLAC 570 in Los Angeles."

Seems to be a pattern.

I understand the disdain for rumors on this site, but that shouldn't excuse the beat reporters in LA getting beaten on each of the developments in this story.

As the Atlanta beat writer himself pointed out today, if the agent hadn't been misleading or misunderstood Tuesday morning, there would have been no story at all Tuesday.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/rafael-furcal-4.html#comments

http://tinyurl.com/4zwtok

Braves are "frustrated" that Furcal is headed to L.A. They sent him a signed term sheet yesterday and felt it was ethically binding.

The main reason Furcal doesn't want to go back to the Braves because he would have to play 2nd base.

Any team that signs Manny knows they have a DH/LF on their hands.

I was talking to a disgraced Catholic priest and he said "Defrocking likely!"

It is also announced that Ethier plays left and Kemp plays right. What do you think Pierre would be quoted as saying?

But that means Tex is headed to the left coast.

This is Elton Brand like news. When the GM reports that they sent an offer sheet with the expectation of it being signed it is usually just a formality.

Survey says, no.

I think we have our SS back.

I'm a stupid.

I mean, your interpretation rests on the idea of an agent using questionable ethics to play two teams against each other. That doesn't strike me as news.

I would suggest brushing up on the Federalist period of U.S. History. Then you can get into lively debates with Greg Brock and I over whether or not Jay's Treaty was a good idea.

I won that debate. That's why you don't see Greg Brock around here anymore.

It's because of the shame.

I would have liked him more if his college could have beaten Florida in the 2006 Final Four.

1. Hamilton
2. Franklin
3. Madison
4. Marshall
5. Washington
6. Jefferson

I don't have much need of yeomen farmers, I'll take the city and 'burbs, thankyouverymuch.

I know what you're trying to say, you're trying to say it's time for business. Oh yeah.

Also, it was Jordan who "stole" the title in part by stripping Karl Malone in the previous play.

Schilling takes another shot at Manny.

266 includes "what goes on top of a house"
I presume?
308 is that from the great scene
in the good (first) "In Laws"
319 If something doesn't change, I expect
we will hear quite a bit from JP and
Andruw this year.

I expect that it's like others said. Furcal and the agent both found the Braves' money offer acceptable, agent accepted verbally, then Furcal said "But I don't want to play 2nd base. See if the Dodgers will pay the same." Since the Dodgers were now ready to guarantee 3 years (same as Braves, not 4 years as reported earlier when Dodgers withdrew), a deal was made.

Dodgers: Luke Hochevar
Red Sox: Manny Ramirez

Now:
Braves: Rafael Furcal