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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Furcal, Dodgers Bathe in the Sweet Blue Rain of Priorities Lost and Found
2008-12-17 17:02
by Jon Weisman

The eclectic compound of exceptional talent and fragility that constitute Rafael Furcal are back in the Dodger medicine chest - pending a physical (dun dun dunnnn) - with the Dodgers posting the news on their website.

The 31-year-old shortstop's contract reportedly pays "$7.5 million next season, $9.5 million in 2010 and $13 million in 2011 ... (and) includes a $13 million team option for 2012 with a $3 million buyout, and the option could become guaranteed depending on his performance." That means that the Dodger payroll for 2009 is only moderately affected by his renewal, and the piper really won't consider calling for a while. (Update: Ken Gurnick has the annual digits at "$6.5 million, $8.5 million and $12 million. The team option for 2012 is for $12 million, but vests with 600 plate appearances in 2011. There is a $3 million deferred signing bonus.")

There's a lot going on in terms of the he-said, he-said of the past two days, which I won't be getting into here (mostly out of personal lack of interest), but here are comments from Braves general manager Frank Wren that leave it unclear whether Furcal himself ever authorized his representation to give an offical yes to Atlanta.

"(Furcal agent Paul Kinzer) asked us to get the term sheet over. The reason we didn't get it over that night when we reached agreement on the terms is because he said, 'I just I just gotta make sure Raffy's OK with this. He said, 'As soon as I talk to Raffy I'll call you back.' And then he called me back at midnight saying he still hadn't just to give me a heads up so I could go to bed. He said, 'I haven't talked to Raffy yet.' I said, 'Well call me if you get him, and I'll do the term sheet and get it to him at that moment.' And he didn't call me back until the middle of the night and left a voicemail. So we got up, got the term sheet, and that's it."

Comments (621)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-12-17 17:37:29
1.   bhsportsguy
LATed -

In your best eye doctor voice.

Which is better?

Choice A - A Major League source confirmed Tuesday morning that Furcal and the Braves have tentatively agreed to the terms of a three-year contract that includes a vesting option for the 2012 season. From official Braves MLB site.

Choice B - A baseball official confirmed Wednesday that Furcal has reached agreement with the Dodgers on a three-year contract with a vesting option for a fourth year. It is believed the deal is pending the passing of a physical exam. The Associated Press is reporting the deal is for $33 million.

2008-12-17 17:38:17
2.   silverwidow
Ned on KLAC 570 now.
2008-12-17 17:39:48
3.   bhsportsguy
Ned says no deal in concrete yet at 5:39 PM PST.
2008-12-17 17:39:50
4.   Sam DC
Well, but, what did the voicemail say? "We agree." or "Still haven't reached him." or . . .
2008-12-17 17:41:21
5.   KG16
good gawd, this is turning into a law school contracts final exam question.
2008-12-17 17:41:36
6.   Indiana Jon
I suppose I am the only one here unhappy with this signing. I have to admit, the money isn't as bad as it could have been though.
2008-12-17 17:42:14
7.   silverwidow
3 He says that about everyone who is pending a physical.
2008-12-17 17:44:20
8.   Jon Weisman
6 - It's funny, I've expressed misgivings about re-signing Furcal multiple times this week, and yet this isn't the first comment to suggest that everyone is for signing him.
2008-12-17 17:44:23
9.   trainwreck
We still need to bring back Manny.
2008-12-17 17:44:34
10.   Ken Noe
6 I have mixed feelings, would've preferred the two years and then on to Hu/DeJesus, but this is better than paying the same money to Orlando "Plan B" Cabrera.
2008-12-17 17:46:42
11.   bhsportsguy
5 I tried to draft a question but got stuck after Party A goes to Party C to get their offer while Party's B written and signed offer sheet waits in their possession.
2008-12-17 17:46:59
12.   El Lay Dave
6 There have been several comments opposed to this deal, or this kind of deal, for Furcal. I'm currently fence-sitting. It's probably for too many years, but it is back-ended to when McCourt gets the TV revenue where the sunk cost is more affordable to eat if that becomes necessary.
2008-12-17 17:48:33
13.   El Lay Dave
7 That's what he MUST say, if case Furcal (or whoever) fails the physical.
2008-12-17 17:50:02
14.   Brian Y has the contract at $30M with $6.5 in 2009, $8.5 in '10, and $12 in '11. I don't think it matters much but pointing it out. Even still, re-signing Furcal is much better than losing a pick for Cabrera.
2008-12-17 17:50:43
15.   Bob Loblaw
I, too, have mixed feelings. I was really hoping for DeJesus to get a chance to win thejob from Hu in ST, but since Ned says that DeJesus isn't ready I guess 3 or 4 more years of Raffy are the next best thing.

This whole contract saga of Furcal's reminds me of a few years ago when it was initially reported that Tim Hudson was signed by the Dodgers before he was actually signed by the Braves.

Speaking of pitching, does anyone have an idea why the secondary pitching market hasn't shaped up since Sabathia & Burnett were reeled in by the Yanks?

2008-12-17 17:51:16
16.   El Lay Dave
Gurnick's contract details are a little different than Leung's (quoted by Jon):

Furcal receives salaries of $6.5 million, $8.5 million and $12 million. The team option for 2012 is for $12 million, but vests with 600 plate appearances in 2011. There is a $3 million deferred signing bonus.

2008-12-17 17:51:31
17.   KG16
11 - it would make for a great "meeting of the minds" kind of essay. I could never, ever teach law school, especially now with some of the procedural stuff I've dealt with, I would kill someone on a civ pro final.
2008-12-17 17:52:51
18.   KG16
13 - eh, the physical can be considered a condition precedent, that doesn't mean that you can't have an agreement already. saying nothing is concrete means that there's no wet ink on the bottom of the last page.
2008-12-17 17:52:57
19.   bhsportsguy
17 That is why whoever does the calendaring for your law firm is the most important person at your office.
2008-12-17 17:54:01
20.   bhsportsguy
Ned was is good spirits.

He confirmed that its pretty much Manny or nothing (in terms of any more position players)

I think regardless they still go after a pitcher or two.

2008-12-17 17:55:29
21.   Tripon
Elton Brand dislocates his right shoulder in a 76's game tonight.
2008-12-17 17:59:20
22.   KG16
19 - I do the calendaring in my office.
2008-12-17 17:59:40
23.   Indiana Jon
8 10 12 I guess that is how I sounded. I think most of the misgivings about signing him have been injury related.
2008-12-17 18:00:59
24.   bhsportsguy
16 Basically its at 3 year/30M deal with a vesting option (600 PA, 24 middle infielders had 600+ PA in 2008) for year 4.
2008-12-17 18:01:35
25.   bhsportsguy
22 They should note that when they hand out the year end bonuses.
2008-12-17 18:02:44
26.   El Lay Dave
So the high-end estimate sounds like 7.5/9.5/13/13 (assuming vesting), plus a bonus 3, or 4/46, an average of 11.5 / year. If the $3M buyout / bonus turns out to be redundant, that's 4/43, a 10.75 average.

I'd like to point out, esp. to D4P, that Furcal actually got a pay cut in free agency.

2008-12-17 18:05:00
27.   bhsportsguy
26 Others who may get pay cuts:

Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Brad Penny

2008-12-17 18:06:02
28.   tsundstrom
I really, really want us to re-sign Manny. His bat in the lineup seemed, although probably artificially but the perception was there nonetheless, to really improve the whole lineup. I think our younger guys can really thrive with a feared bat in the lineup...Martin, Furcal, Ethier, DeWitt, and Kemp can all relax a little bit and not feel like they have to single handedly turn a game around.

I am glad Furcal is back, too. I think the contract is reasonable and I'd rather have 120 games from Furcal than 162 from Orlando Cabrera or Jack Wilson. That was a nightmare waiting to happen...


2008-12-17 18:12:05
29.   Jacob Burch
24 Is it 600 PA in any of the years, or just the last two?
2008-12-17 18:13:51
30.   El Lay Dave
24 Yes, but 2011 is Furcal's age 33 season. In the nine seasons of the 2000s, there have be only 30 600-PA seasons for middle infielders 33+. And twelve of those are Vizquel, Biggio and Kent.

2008-12-17 18:14:38
31.   jujibee
So, if this signing is true, that means the left side of our infield is locked in for the next three years, barring injury or complete falloff in production. That leaves Hu, Abreau, Dewitt and DeJesus among others potentially fighting for the 2nd base job and utility infielder (unless Ned keeps signing PVLs like Nomar and Loretta to fill this role) It appears we have some depth for the next few years. While I would've preferred a 1 year contract to Blake and shift Dewitt to 3rd and Dejesus to 2nd in 2010, that doesn't look like the current plan that Ned has set up. I think that if this signing is true, it almost certainly will lead to a trade of one or two of these guys. Hopefully, Ned doesn't package one of them up with Pierre to save the money he would otherwise have to eat.
2008-12-17 18:15:45
32.   El Lay Dave
29 Gurnick wrote "... vests with 600 plate appearances in 2011."

Only Tellem, Kinzer, Ned, McCourt and maybe Furcal know for sure.

2008-12-17 18:16:01
33.   Tripon
Diamond Lueng says its 3 year/30 million...

2008-12-17 18:19:25
34.   Sam DC
I'm just curious what Jennifer Aniston will have to say about this deal when she appears on Dodger Talk.
2008-12-17 18:19:37
35.   bhsportsguy
Boston is paying $21 million to Lugo and Lowell in 2009 and 2010.

And they want to replace both of them now.

2008-12-17 18:21:58
36.   Sam DC
Atlanta by six over Boston wiht 7:00 to go.

(Not suggesting they'll actually win.)

2008-12-17 18:23:30
37.   Sam DC
1:30 later it's tied.
2008-12-17 18:25:01
38.   ToyCannon
I guess that means he won't be traveling to LA for the New Year Eve game.
2008-12-17 18:26:05
39.   Tripon
38 We think baseball contracts are out of whack, when in the NBA you can pay a guy like Elton Brand 82 million over 5 years.
2008-12-17 18:26:48
40.   Sam DC
Is there any generally accepted explanation for what happened to Daniel Cabrera?

It was not long ago he was really good.

2008-12-17 18:28:45
41.   trainwreck
Great stuff, but no control.
2008-12-17 18:29:43
42.   Bob Timmermann
People explode.

It happens.

2008-12-17 18:32:11
43.   Sam DC
I'm just curious 'cause I'm figuring him for Opening Day starter for the 2009 Washington Nationals.
2008-12-17 18:32:37
44.   Tripon
Furcal, 31, will be paid $6.5 million next season, $8.5 million in 2010 and $12 million in 2011. The contract includes a $12 million option for 2012 that vests if Furcal has 600 plate appearances in 2011. Furcal will receive a $3 million bonus when the contract expires.,0,3565294.story

2008-12-17 18:34:26
45.   Bluebleeder87
6 8

I'm not thrilled about the signing either but I hope he proves us wrong... I guess his bat (when healthy) more than makes up for his bad throws to 1st & a knack for making very costly errors in the most of critical moments.

But overall IF he is healthy I guess I'll like the move. From what I've read he is a GREAT club house guy as well so that doesn't hurt either.

2008-12-17 18:35:59
46.   MC Safety
40 He'd probably win 25 games if Rick Peterson or Dave Duncan got a hold of him.
2008-12-17 18:36:21
47.   Icaros

Just be happy we didn't give up our first-round pick for Cabrera.

2008-12-17 18:36:29
48.   Bob Timmermann
I received a gift basket today from a friend that contained:
2 packages of regular English muffins
1 package of chocolate chip English muffins
1 package of cheddar cheese English muffins
1 loaf of English muffin bread (I have never seen such a thing before)
1 package of crumpets
plus one package of coffee and one small jar of preserves.

I'm having the crumpets for dinner tonight.

2008-12-17 18:38:00
49.   Sam DC
600 seems like a lot of plate appearances . . .
2008-12-17 18:38:11
50.   Icaros
I remember when I didn't hate Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-12-17 18:38:49
51.   El Lay Dave
49 See 30 .
2008-12-17 18:40:59
52.   Bob Hendley
I was willing to go with the Manny/Hu pairing, as I really, really love his defense with Ivan Jr in the wings, as well as an option for moving the Solution back to 3rd at some point. But I like the Furcal signing first because of the bird in the hand angle, as we aren't certain to get Manny, and second because of the tied hands angle, those hands being Ned's. To me the cost of the contract needs to be viewed relative to the costs of the options (Wilson, Orlando, etc), both in terms of the contract, as well as costs in players or lost draft pick. Now I cross my fingers and knock on wood (which hurts).
2008-12-17 18:41:51
53.   Sam DC
Thx, and sorry about that.

This seems to say that 11 ml shortstops had 600 PAs last year.

Now Eric's gonna make me go check CFs I guess.

2008-12-17 18:42:00
54.   Icaros
Ugh, no one ever misses a game-tying free throw against the Lakers.
2008-12-17 18:42:02
55.   Big Game
Things I like about Rafael Furcal:

1) Removes a major excuse for Juan Pierre starting in the outfield and batting leadoff.

2) Watching him play shortstop. His arm is one of the best I've ever seen and his style of play is fun to watch. His slap bunt in the playoffs was a perfect example of this. His Erstad Factor is off the charts.

Things I dont like about Rafael Furcal:

1) His vertebrae is made of Lladro porcelain and the original rubber seals from a 1953 Hudson Hornet.

I'll take it. He's great fun to watch, a fantastic player, and hopefully healthy. I am pleased.

2008-12-17 18:43:26
56.   jasonungar07
Now this means we have an extra leadoff man/8 hole hitter/4th OF that needs to be traded to make room for Manny.
2008-12-17 18:43:33
57.   Bob Hendley
40 - I saw him pitch against Odalis, of all people, last year in DC. Great stuff, but lack of control was his undoing.
2008-12-17 18:43:53
58.   Sam DC
53 Actually, 13 players last year.
2008-12-17 18:44:16
59.   El Lay Dave
I would guess 600 PA represent roughly 140 games leading off, allowing for one 15-day DL trip and one other game off per month, roughly.
2008-12-17 18:44:28
60.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Sammy Baugh
2008-12-17 18:46:00
61.   Jimmyv11
6. You are not the only one, im also excited about Furcal. While Im cautious about his health, I think that he is a good all round player with good character. Maybe im wrong about his character but to me he comes to the field ready to play and play hard daily. So I hope that he can really be a leader. Staying healthy is #1 to be our leader on the field but looking beyond that I believe in Furcal as a player to help this team contend and go far.
2008-12-17 18:47:15
62.   El Lay Dave
58 Three were 33 or older: Jeter, Cabrera, Tejada.
2008-12-17 18:47:56
63.   Icaros
When Ned sets his sights on a player who is actually good, I try not to argue.
2008-12-17 18:48:42
64.   El Lay Dave
61 You misread 6 . He does not like the signing. What do you think Frank Wren thinks about Furcal's character? ;)
2008-12-17 18:49:41
65.   Tripon
Hopefully, next time Furcal becomes an FA, he'll actually net the Dodgers some draft picks. =P
2008-12-17 18:55:48
66.   kinbote
So, with Blake, Loretta, & Furcal signed, I suppose we can put an end to any "inactive offseason" talk. I will give Ned this: He usually gets his man. (Whether his man is worth getting is another matter altogether.) Thumbs up from me on this deal. It lessens the need to re-sign Manny. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy if we turned our full attention to pitching now. I think silverwidow posted this lineup earlier:


I think that might be good enough to win the NL West.

2008-12-17 19:04:25
67.   scareduck
I can kinda see it. God knows if Hu will ever amount to anything, and Furcal, when healthy -- a BIG if -- is a plus player with actual leadoff ability. I just wish the Dodgers had a decent shortstop prospect so that this deal weren't necessary.
2008-12-17 19:04:58
68.   bhsportsguy
66 Actually, I tend to downplay the Loretta deal but the Furcal deal pretty much makes the following possible:

Catchers (2): Martin, Ellis (or reasonable alternative)
Infield (6): Loney, Loretta, Furcal, Blake, (and then a battle between Abreau, Hu, DeWitt for 2 spots)
Outfield (5): Kemp, Ethier, Young, (and then some combo between Jones, Pierre, Ramirez)

And it is certainly possible that during April, if the 5th starter isn't needed that much, you can see all 6 outfielders if they sign Manny.

2008-12-17 19:08:17
69.   bhsportsguy
67 I think they would make this deal even if they had a decent prospect unless his name was Alex Rodriquez.

A look a recent history shows the Dodgers what can happen if you lose the one player that couldn't afford to lose (Furcal) and when they lose both of their projected battlers for 3B (LaRoche and Garciaparra).

They thought they had Hu and Abreau ready in the wings but one couldn't hit enough to stay in the big leagues and the other couldn't stay healthy.

2008-12-17 19:08:30
70.   Tripon
67 The Dodgers do. Ivan DeJesus Jr. is either the 2nd or 3rd best prospect the Dodgers have. He just needs another year in the minors to mature.
2008-12-17 19:13:59
71.   bhsportsguy
70 I guess the point is, sure he is a prospect but the odds are better that he doesn't make it than that he does.
2008-12-17 19:15:48
72.   ChicagoDodger
Anyone think there is a chance the Dodgers take a flyer on Ben Sheets?

I realize its a long shot, and they haven't even been rumored to be interested from what I have been able to read, but wouldn't 2 years $24 or $25 million be worth the risk?

He does have ties to LaSorda from the Olympics I believe.

Any thoughts?

And while were at it, wouldn't Randy Johnson make a decent 5th starter?

2008-12-17 19:18:29
73.   Bumsrap
If this keeps Hu in the organization it could be a great signing. If Hu winds up being a hitter and his eyes stay healthy, the win of signing Furcal could be Hu. And, if Furcal stays healthy the Dodgers get a great leadoff hitter and greatly reduce the need for Manny. For me, adding Manny complicates life instead of making it simpler.
2008-12-17 19:18:41
74.   trainwreck
I wish, but Ned said no.
2008-12-17 19:19:29
75.   trainwreck
Why does it complicate things?
2008-12-17 19:22:39
76.   Bumsrap
75 - Because one never knows when the other shoe will drop and waiting for it to drop complicates life.
2008-12-17 19:23:19
77.   Xeifrank
I updated my WAR chart at DodgerSims with the signing of Furcal. The team tally has now moved up to 79.83 with perhaps Manny, a starting pitcher or two and some bullpen help waiting in the wings. With Manny, a league average starter and decent relief pitcher, I can see us hitting the 85 WAR mark. I gave Furcal a 70% playing time factor and it came out to 2.22 WAR, which is almost exactly $11Mil per year. So there is a little bit of an injury cushion built in to his contract, but not a whole lot.
vr, Xei
2008-12-17 19:24:32
78.   Tripon
What shoe? Can't manny buy his own shoes if he forgot one at the airport?
2008-12-17 19:27:58
79.   Ken Noe
78 Or threw it at Curt Schilling?
2008-12-17 19:28:30
80.   Bumsrap
78 - No, he threw it at somebody and didn't get it back.
2008-12-17 19:34:19
81.   Gen3Blue
I can't believe it, but I am relieved if Furcal is signed. As to Sheets I'm still shy of giving any money to injury prone pitchers. Even healthy pitchers I am loath to give more than 2 or 3 years. At this point I would rather build offense and use it to try to support the pitching talent that I think is in the organization. If Furcal is OK this year, it may be that Hu and Ivan become expendable. I still have some terror around Neds ability to get decent return in a trade, so I hope they are kept for depth.
2008-12-17 19:38:03
82.   El Lay Dave
Tony Jackson reports in his blog the same contract terms that Gurnick and Hernandez report, but with the last (option) year at $13M. Seems like the 3/30 is gelling and with vesting either 4/42 or 4/43.
2008-12-17 19:48:38
83.   Bob Timmermann
Rafael Furcal was quoted as saying "I really like the vest."
2008-12-17 19:50:58
84.   silverwidow
The latest AP story has a new wrinkle:

Furcal can earn an extra $1M annually (including the option year) if he stays healthy.

That would bring the deal to 4/46. I don't know if the guaranteed $3M bonus is built into that or not.

2008-12-17 20:13:59
85.   PDH5204
55 It was disc and not bone. Think of the disc(s) as jelly donuts, functioning as shock absorbers for the vertebrae/spine. Given his complaints and the early diagnosis of a sacroiliac joint dysfunction, seems that the problem was with the one disc at L5-S1. Assuming that there isn't much, if any, spine instability, and also no adhesion of the scar fiber to the nerve root, then he should be fine. The only thing that I would suggest is that he refrain from falling on his behind as that certainly won't help. Well, that and he is presumably strengthening the muscles in the area. Lastly, I otherwise don't know why some insist on labeling him a big or huge injury risk, since his games played by year is: 131, 79, 154, 156, 143, 154, 159, 138, 36. We all know about the 138 and the 36, but the 79 concerned a dislocated left shoulder [injured while attempting a steal of 2B]. He had injured the shoulder during winter ball, injured it again early in the year, with accompanying recommendation for post-season surgery, and then he took himself out for good in 2001 with that slide into 2B. Otherwise, it's a finger injury here and a sprained ankle there.
2008-12-17 20:16:01
86.   Strike4
Is WAR the equivalent of expected wins? If so, it seems surprising that a full year of Manny and Blake, plus 113 games of Raffy would produce only 1 win more than 2008. I hope it's not that the rest of the team is expected to perform even worse than last year. And Lowe isn't that hard to replace, or is he?
2008-12-17 20:16:52
87.   Marty
Just keep Repko away from him.
2008-12-17 20:28:28
88.   LAT
You know there is now calendaring software that is tied to the CCP. You plug in the trial date and it backs out all the other dates, e.g. discovery cutoff, last day to file MSJ, jury fees, etc. Its not that expensive and some professional liab. carriers will give you a discount if you have it. No suprise blown deadlines are the most common form of malpractice.
2008-12-17 20:29:31
89.   LAT
I predict Furcal will not be hitting lead-off after Aug of the final year of his new contract.
2008-12-17 20:29:40
90.   Marty
Microsoft Court?
2008-12-17 20:29:45
91.   MollyKnight
I guess I'm torn about this. When Raffy is being Raffy, he is an absolute joy to watch. But when Raffy is injured...

Still, I'd much rather give him the money on the chance that he'll be able to play to his abilities than give the money to Cabrera or Wilson.

Still! Here we are again, flirting with the OR like we tend to do. It's certainly given me pause.

2008-12-17 20:32:02
92.   MollyKnight
Holy heck! Marcus Camby had 27 rebounds tonight!
2008-12-17 20:32:13
93.   trainwreck
Oh, aRe they?
2008-12-17 20:32:35
94.   blue22
91 - I'll take 110 games of Furcal and 50 games of Hu/DeJesus over 162 games of Wilson or Cabrera.
2008-12-17 20:35:06
95.   LAT
89. By then Donny Basebal will be the de facto manager and to prove he is worthy of the crown will take the heat for demoting Furcal.
2008-12-17 20:38:09
96.   LAT
I will be happy if Furcal moderates his base running. Although conventional wisdom dictates the lead-off hitter is supposed to steal, bad things happen to injury prone people when they are sliding into second or trying to break-up DPs.
2008-12-17 20:39:13
97.   Tripon
95 Unless Torre extends his reign for one more year.
2008-12-17 20:40:19
98.   LAT
90. I think there are a bunch of them. I'm sure Microsoft has one. Probably one for every state and the Virgin Islands too.
2008-12-17 20:51:29
99.   silverwidow
84 I figure this how it breaks down:

Min. contract: 3 yrs/$30M (includes $3M signing bonus)

Max contract: 4 yrs/$46M (includes $3M signing bonus, $4M performance bonuses, and $12M option)

OK, that's enough about this subject for one day. :)

2008-12-17 20:52:36
100.   Xeifrank
86. You are losing Lowe and his projected 2.55 WAR, 50 innings of Saito, 50 innings of HRless ball from Beimel. If I take last years final Dodger team stats, I get 84.74 wins. It looks like the team they build will be slightly above or below this number projection-wise for 2009 based upon who the remainder of their signings are. If Manny hits for the whole year like he did for the last 1-2 months for the Dodgers then yeah, the number would be higher, but you can't really project Manny to play like that over a whole season.
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-12-17 20:52:57
101.   Tripon
Furcal also has a 4 million dollar bonus coming to him in Jan. from his previous contract.
2008-12-17 20:53:41
102.   underdog
93 - Train gets bonus points for the Rushmore reference.


Hey guys! Did you hear that the Dodgers signed Rafael Furcal after all? They... I...

Rats. I hate it when I have nothing to add to everything already posted and commented above.

Carry on then, as you were.

I found an old Northern Exposure DVD randomly lying around the office today so I'm off to watch that.

2008-12-17 20:54:22
103.   Tripon
100 We're also losing the performance of Penny, Falkenborg, Juan Pierre(for the most part) and Andruw Jones.

Would that make any difference at all?

2008-12-17 20:55:39
104.   Tripon
Dear Bravo, I don't give two licks about the Housewives of Orange County. Please stop spamming me with ads of your mediocre series.
2008-12-17 20:57:09
105.   Jon Weisman
101 - Ooh - I forgot about that.
2008-12-17 20:57:37
106.   immouch
i like that furcal stays. from what i read, he wasn't thrilled with the idea of playing 2B in atlanta... i'm curious, somebody above suggested that keeping furcal means keeping hu too... i'd be happy about that (i have a hunch hu will pan out) but i'm not sure i see how keeping furcal means keeping hu. i'm thinking hu splits time this year in vegas and LA and, when he shows his glove on the MLB level (probably at 2B), he winds up as a trade piece... i hope they don't, but i predict they will...
2008-12-17 21:02:39
107.   Xeifrank
103. Yes, it makes a difference, but it depends who you replace all those players with, and how much they play. I think Andruw Jones is the real wild-card here. If he can atleast do as well as his 3-year weighted average projections say he will do, he provides some decent value in CF due to his defense, and that makes the signing of Manny not a big value as he would be taking at-bats away from Ethier/Kemp/Jones. With Pierre we pretty much know what we are getting in LF, and Manny is a solid 2-2.5 win upgrade over him. If we sign Manny, it would be nice to get some pieces for either Pierre or Jones, but going down that road would be beating a dead horse. Biggest upgrade we can get right now would be at SP,2B,LF and then RP. Some of those positions have slim pickens, unless a trade can be made.
vr, Xei
2008-12-17 21:03:16
108.   Tripon
Huh. I was trying to check Cot's baseball contracts to confirm the bonus.(I'm sure the bonus exists) But they already purged Furcal's contract details.
2008-12-17 21:05:04
109.   silverwidow
108 It definitely said $4M payment due in January 2009.
2008-12-17 21:10:38
110.   Tripon
The Royals conceivably could have moved outfielder Jose Guillen to clear salary for Furcal, but club officials value Guillen's power. The team, expecting a payroll jump from $58 million to $72 million, just could not find a way to fit Furcal into its budget.

Rosenthal sure loves to make stuff up. Guillen had a .438 slugging last year!,-others-likely-to-get-deals-fast

2008-12-17 21:12:48
111.   underdog
Furcal should've used the Dave Deal method, had his agent say "Double it!" before the team even named the terms.
2008-12-17 21:20:52
112.   Jon Weisman
108 - Furcal's bonus actually lives on my not recently updated contracts page.

111 - What did you think? I give the premiere about a 6.

2008-12-17 21:22:35
113.   Bob Timmermann
My cable system is showing the UCLA game on Fox Prime and the picture quality looks like my grandma's TV set from 1973.
2008-12-17 21:24:56
114.   Tripon
112 Its amazing that J.D. Drew had that buyout after his 2nd year.
2008-12-17 21:25:43
115.   SG6
So has Ned's "short term/high per annum" strategy paid off?

Furcal 6/$69 ($39+$30) or 7/$85 ($39+46)

(The $4 million bonus is paid either way.)

He essentially had a 4rd year club opt-out.

I say yes.

2008-12-17 21:26:43
116.   Jon Weisman
114 - You haven't been around here long enough to have experienced the endless discussion of this point.
2008-12-17 21:27:19
117.   kinbote
No offense to Hu, but he's not a guy you make sure isn't blocked. DeJesus, who seems to have more potential than Hu, is no sure thing either. DeJesus will be just fine in AAA next year while Hu backs up SS & 2B (Abreu is the wild card).

Even assuming Blake, Furcal, & DeWitt stay healthy over the next 3 years (a very unlikely proposition), Hu or DeJesus will be valuable as bench players or trade bait. DeJesus can always bump DeWitt to 3b or Furcal to CF or any other variety of unknown outcomes. I personally think DeJesus will be a good major league player, but we're not talking about a hopeless situation where he has no chance at all in the future.

I think it's safe to say this is not a case of blocking prospects.

2008-12-17 21:29:28
118.   Bob Hendley
107 - I don't know how this model works, is it up on your site? How are we to think about the 84 wins that you have calculated? If we win someone else loses, no? Does it factor in the 72 games we play in the West, which is likely to be weaker this year?
2008-12-17 21:31:44
119.   Gagne55
114 You mean opt out. It's pretty standard in long deals for stars now. C.C., A-Rod, even Burnett have had opt out clauses. And they're usually used.
2008-12-17 21:32:17
120.   Bob Timmermann
With the amount of money saved by JD Drew opting out, the Dodgers could have constructed 40 baseball fields, named them all after Hee Seop Choi, paid for two years of Joe Torre's salary, gave every fan a box set of Becker DVDs, and given Andrew Shimmin one pair of pleated pants.
2008-12-17 21:35:21
121.   Xeifrank
118. Yes, it's up on my site and the methodology is at The Book blog. It factors in NL/AL, but not West/Central/East.
vr, Xei
2008-12-17 21:36:15
122.   fritts
I'm not sure your playing time numbers are realistic. I think you're taking Marcel and Bill James projections and averaging the two together (correct me if I'm wrong), but the playing times in those are usually very conservative. Kuroda is probably going to pitch more than 171 innings considering he pitched 183.1 last year and has become the number 2 starter, since Lowe is likely to leave. Billingsley will probably pitch more than 204 innings. I think Loney, Kemp and Ethier will start at least 90% of the time, unless there is an injury. I'm certainly not trying to criticize you, I'm just saying that I think your WAR totals seem low, because they don't reflect reality.
2008-12-17 21:36:17
123.   Jon Weisman
I feel I should have something profound to say about Sammy Baugh, but I don't. So I'll just quote from his obit at the Times.

"He also was a superb punter, the last master of the all-but-forgotten stratagem of the quick kick, and a formidable defensive back. Against the run, he was a fierce tackler who could bring down the fabled fullback Bronko Nagurski. Defending against the pass, he was an interception threat. He had 28 over his career. In one season, 1943, he led the NFL in passing, in punting and in interceptions with 11. He's the only player ever to lead the league in offensive, defensive and special teams categories.

"Baugh led the Redskins to a second NFL championship with a 14-6 victory over the Chicago Bears in 1942, coming from behind after the Bears scored first on a 50-yard runback of a recovered Redskins fumble. In that contest, Baugh stunned the Bears with an 85-yard quick kick on a third-down play, tossed a 25-yard touchdown pass to halfback Wilbur Moore and orchestrated an 80-yard drive for the final score that ended when Andy Farkas ran the ball into the end zone from the 1-yard line."

2008-12-17 21:37:03
124.   kinbote

According to what we know, [Randy] Johnson offered to take a 50% pay cut and sign a one-year deal in the range of $7-8 million for 2009. His Marcel projection has him worth around $15 million on a one year deal. The Diamondbacks reportedly offered him about $3 million. They made a huge, potentially division-costing mistake and Johnson still looms on the open market, an insane bargain just looking for a savvy shopper.

2008-12-17 21:38:30
125.   Jon Weisman
Farewell, Sam Bottoms (Billy from The Last Picture Show) and, apparently, Astros reliever Dave Smith
2008-12-17 21:39:36
126.   kinbote
123 Nobody expects the 85-yard quick kick.
2008-12-17 21:40:06
127.   Jon Weisman
In addition to Terry Tiffee, the Phillies also sent a non-roster invite to Mike Koplove and OBMD Wilkin Ruan.

2008-12-17 21:40:39
128.   Bob Timmermann
Stanford stays undefeated with a 9 point win over Northern Arizona.
2008-12-17 21:40:56
129.   LAT
Throw in a reference to Jason Phillips and what asparagus does to your pee and you have pretty much captured the last three years here in one post. Talk about efficency!
2008-12-17 21:41:32
130.   LAT
129 refers to 120.
2008-12-17 21:42:11
131.   trainwreck
I used to see Timothy Bottoms a lot on State Street in SB.
2008-12-17 21:42:21
132.   underdog
112 Jon, about a 6, yeah, or a 7 (in places). I may give it one extra just for the presence of Greg Proops.


Boy, some major rule 1 violations by Braves fans on MLBTR site. Ah well. They'll get over it.

2008-12-17 21:44:46
133.   underdog
That's really sad about Sam Bottoms. His family is so great. Nice obit in the LA Times.,0,6453698.story

2008-12-17 21:47:13
134.   Fallout
Colletti has a history of taking chances on free agents. For the Dodgers to be competitive next season, Colletti had to take this chance...again.

34 Sam DC
I'm just curious what Jennifer Aniston will have to say about this deal when she appears on Dodger Talk.

I thought that was going to read...when she appears on the cover of Dodger Magazine.

2008-12-17 21:51:42
135.   mintxcore
112 I might go as high as "7". I thought it was good and i love when eps center around Rhys Darby, but i didnt get the giggles (did I just say "giggles"?) like last season.

133 I think many of the Bottoms were Dons... I think!

2008-12-17 21:53:10
136.   Xeifrank
122. It's standard practice to give "full time" players 85% playing time. Feel free to run your own projections with playing time and let us know what you come up with. I feel confident that my numbers are pretty accurate as far as projections go. I used various projection systems, throwing out the outlier between Zips/Marcel/BJ. Do you think the Dodgers are a Manny Ramirez signing away from being a 90+ win team on paper?
vr, Xei
2008-12-17 21:57:17
137.   Daniel Zappala
126 Randall Cunningham had a 91-yard quick-kick in 1989.
2008-12-17 22:06:40
138.   underdog
135 137 Hey! Double-Dons (SBHS) references!

127 ...OBMD? somethingsomethingsomethingDodger?

2008-12-17 22:10:56
139.   Jon Weisman
138 - Obscure but Memorable
2008-12-17 22:18:51
140.   trainwreck
Morrell Presley is the first to switch in the USC/UCLA wars.

Hopefully he actually stays a Bruin.

2008-12-17 22:18:52
141.   Bob Timmermann
In Sammy Baugh's rookie year, 1937, his Washington team beat the Brooklyn Dodgers 11-7.

Washington had a TD, FG, and a blocked punt for a safety.

The day after the game, Brooklyn played an exhibition game in Wilmington, Delaware.

2008-12-17 22:20:46
142.   KG16
129 - you forgot to mention JP being overpaid and/or playing, and trading Ethier.
2008-12-17 22:21:09
143.   fritts

I understand why you used 85%, I just think it is a conservative figure, because most full-time players get over well 600 PA and some even reach 700 PA. Marcel projects Jose Reyes to get 658 PA, but his totals the last three years have been 703, 765 and 763. I just think if someone wants the most accurate WAR total then you need high playing time figures. Doing it that way does have downsides, because it predicts ideal health situations and doesn't factor in the injuries that every team deals with.

As far as if this team is 90+ wins on paper with Manny, I'd say 87-89 wins with a healthy Manny producing at about a .400 wOBA level. There are certainly a few young players on this team capable of breaking out and producing at a higher level than what is being predicted. Ethier wasn't projected to hit as well as he did in 2008.

2008-12-17 22:22:03
144.   LAT
Holy moly frijoles!!! Just took the dogs out. It is seriously cold out there.
2008-12-17 22:25:17
145.   Tripon
142 And the arguments of LaRoche vs. DeWitt.
2008-12-17 22:31:32
146.   Tripon

Speaking of Andy LaRoche. Some analysis of his season with the Pirates.

2008-12-17 22:32:07
147.   Xeifrank
143. You make good points and probably answer your own question in your first paragraph. Too bad the Dodgers don't have Jose Reyes at SS, and I'd probably have an inkling to bump him up to 90% if we did. I don't see any players worth worry about bumping up to 90%. The outfield is a little crowded right now with Pierre and Jones surely to get some playing time. Billingsley is in a cast, so I don't see any problem where his projected IPs are at. Minor adjustments might squeeze out another half win or more, but I'm not going to over-project playing times. There are still many pieces to the puzzle left to add, and the chart is a dynamic one. People could argue for the WAR being lower as easily as they could argue for it being higher imo. Night all! Gotta be at work at 0300 tomorrow.
vr, Xei
2008-12-17 22:36:28
148.   DBrim
SI's favorite baseball announcers in 2008? Vin Scully and Vin Scully.

2008-12-17 22:41:08
149.   LAT
Sam, you will be glad to know that unlike the Mets, your local team has not been victimied by Mr. Madoff.
2008-12-17 22:49:31
150.   underdog
Do you want to be left behind when your friends go to internet heaven?

(Time capsule internet self-help infomercial from a long time ago.)

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-12-17 22:59:20
151.   underdog
An A's fan friend of mine forwarded me this from an A's discussion thread:

>>Remember, the Dodgers GM is Ned Colletti
Last July: So, we have Russell Martin. So, we're going to basically sell Carlos Santana, a really good catching prospect, for a few MM in savings on 1/2 year of Casey Blake.

If they did it with Santana, who is a better prospect than DeJesus IMO, he'll do it with DeJesus. Time to fleece the Dodgers.<<

I replied, I can't blame them for thinking that, but also -- I'd like to see ya try! That even Colletti seems to appreciate DeJesus' value. And if anyone would be traded it's much more likely to be Hu.

2008-12-17 23:13:35
152.   Harold M Johnson
131 I was going to say the same thing-- that's how I met him and became friends with him!

151 So how likely is it now that Ned does a trade for one of Hu or DeJesus? Elbert/McDonald/DeJesus for Peavy? Or, sign Manny and go Ethier/Elbert/Hu for Peavy?

I always feel like LA should think big, and with the Mets moves and the Cubs in line for Peavy, why not snatch him and go for the pennant: Peavy/Bills/Kuroda/Kershaw/? with

Furcal SS
Martin C
Manny LF
Kemp RF
Loney 1B
Blake 3B
DeWitt 2B
Jones/Pierre CF

2008-12-17 23:18:09
153.   DBrim
152 - McCourt would not approve of having Manny and Peavy at the same time.
2008-12-17 23:18:20
154.   Tripon
Top Chef Thoughts: The Euros are hilarious!
2008-12-17 23:19:13
155.   trainwreck
That is sweet. Every time I saw him, I resisted the urge to say "That's My Bush!"
2008-12-17 23:19:40
156.   trainwreck
I do not like Stefan.
2008-12-17 23:20:50
157.   Tripon
156 He's still funny. And the only one who seems to realize that the whole purpose of the show is to not be stressed out. Of course, he intentionally pushes buttons to stress everyone else out.
2008-12-17 23:22:17
158.   trainwreck
I did mention last week that I like some of the nicknames he gives out.
2008-12-17 23:45:38
159.   mintxcore
154 Fabio is my downright favorite. Stefan is great too thou. They both don't take themselves too seriously and are more than happy to point out the stupidity around them.
2008-12-17 23:45:53
160.   jasonungar07
If I had to pick right now who I think would win I would go with the dude from Boulder, Hosea.
2008-12-18 01:41:26
161.   arbfuldodger
My Top Chef's are Fabio, Hosea & Leah. Loved Fabio's line from the upcoming episode preview "This is Top Chef, not Top Scallop" (pointing out that Jamie is using scallops for the 3rd competition in a row). Still cracking up about that.
2008-12-18 04:34:20
162.   D4P
The good thing about Furcal is that back problems just magically heal and don't generally linger throughout a person's life.

Nope. They just vanish and never return.

2008-12-18 06:10:14
163.   Xeifrank
It appears as if next week is going to be very wet, with a couple of big storms headed our way. vr, Xei
2008-12-18 06:34:47
164.   Daniel Zappala
Holy moly frijoles!!! Just took the dogs out. It is seriously cold out there.

I remember when I used to think it could get cold in LA when a rare winter storm came through. Then I moved to Utah. The high for Saturday is forecast to be 12.

2008-12-18 07:00:37
165.   DBrim
164 - Substitute Utah for Boston and that's me.

The Jet Blue terminal at JFK is really really nice.

2008-12-18 07:01:42
166.   scareduck
163 - Two things never fail when I go back to see my in-laws in Arkansas:

1) LA gets drenched (I love the infrequent rain!).
2) Little Rock gets paralyzed with ice storms.

2008-12-18 07:03:45
167.   scareduck
107 - just as a SWAG, an 84-85 win team sounds about right to me, too. That may very well not be enough to win the division.
2008-12-18 07:34:03
168.   Ken Noe
Former farmhand Bryan Morris, he of the Manny deal, to start the season on the DL. Seems like he went to the Pirates with a bad toe. Interesting that he's become the "key to the Jason Bay deal."

2008-12-18 07:36:34
169.   MollyKnight
Hey, I was just thinking: last year's team down the stretch was pretty good. Why not just field the same dudes with some of the fat (Penny, Kent, Nomar, Sweeney) trimmed?

At this point if we re-sign Manny and replace Lowe with someone like Peavy (pipe dream, I know) we are even better than last year's September squad because Raffy will hopefully be well.

Not to mention the team will be a lot of fun to watch.

2008-12-18 07:36:53
170.   Ken Noe
[Top Chef comments] Call me a sucker, but they had great clubhouse chemistry last night.
2008-12-18 07:42:50
171.   JoeyP
I cant believe they didnt cut anyone from last night's episode. Thats the reason people watch---to see who gets eliminated. And with all the dishes being so bad, it was a complete disappointment.
2008-12-18 07:50:29
172.   screwballin
Anyone else doubting the wisdom of offering Raffy $1 million to "stay healthy?" I think his biggest negative is his macho play-through-pain approach when he sometimes needs to rest and heal; won't this clause just give him incentive to hide injuries?
2008-12-18 07:55:26
173.   Sam DC
171 That decision was the best part of the show for me.

Although I was sure that the disgusting slimy scallop soup thing was going to be the loser.

Top Scallop indeed!

2008-12-18 08:10:50
174.   old dodger fan
Opened my EC morning newspaper today only to find a picture of it snowing heavily in Adelanto (near Victorville). I lived near there a long time ago. What a nice surprise.
2008-12-18 08:12:26
175.   CajunDodger
Nope...It'll just give him incentive to prove he's a "gamer" and a "grinder".
2008-12-18 08:41:55
176.   cargill06
143 I'm right there with you, I think we're a couple solid pitchers away from 87-90 wins. Keep in mind we had a pythag. record of 87-75 last year with our SS putting up a line of .240/.310/.367, and our 3B doing .245/.321/.376. Even if we lose Manny our OF as a whole put up a line of .284/.348/.447, I think that could be matched. I would think Loney and Martin would take a step forward from last year. And don't forget the 275 PA's of .233/.333/.297 from our pinch hitters. We're losing something like 600+ IP of a 4.08 ERA, if we can replace this I fully expect this team to win 88+.
2008-12-18 08:48:04
177.   old dodger fan
176 We're losing something like 600+ IP
That's about 40% of our innings for the year.
2008-12-18 08:51:41
178.   Xeifrank
167. The numbers tend to back up your swag. It will be interesting to see what the final pieces of the Dodgers puzzle will be.
vr, Xei
2008-12-18 08:53:45
179.   cargill06
177 It's not as much as it seems, just throwing numbers out there.

Additional innings/signed pitchers
Kershaw- 70
Elbert- 50
Signed starter- 190
Signed reliever- 60
Troncoso - 30

There-s 540 right there.

2008-12-18 09:02:29
180.   old dodger fan
I think your signed starter - 190 is pretty important. You already have Billingsly, Kershaw, Kuroda and McDonald covered.

Who (that is already signed) is gonna give us 190 IP of 4.08 ERA?

2008-12-18 09:02:38
181.   CajunDodger
I don't see why we could not bring in both Randy Johnson and Randy Wolf. Johnson will miss at least 4-6 starts because of back issues which can easily be absorbed by one of the youngsters. Oliver Perez could be had, but I really have no clue if he will get a 3/36 deal or something more like a 5/60 deal. His market is completely undetermined at this point.
2008-12-18 09:13:21
182.   cargill06
180 It's not just for the starting pitcher it's the group as a whole. Again, throwing numbers out there.

Kershaw- 31 ER in 70 IP, 3.96 ERA
McDonald- 71 ER in 140 IP, 4.56 ERA
Elbert- 19 ER in 50 IP, 3.42 ERA
Randy Johnson- 81 ER in 190 IP, 3.84
Reliever- 25 ER in 60 IP, 3.75 ERA
Troncoso- 12 ER in 30 IP, 3.60 ERA
Total 239 ER in 540 IP, 3.98 ERA

Just to give you an idea what it takes to get there

2008-12-18 09:13:54
183.   old dodger fan
181 If the Randy's can be had on 1-year deals I would love to see that happen (especially Johnson).
2008-12-18 09:15:42
184.   underdog
Hong-Chi Kuo was voted This Year in Baseball's Setup Man of the Year.

2008-12-18 09:22:03
185.   Eric Stephen
Is TYIB affiliated with TWIB? How about that!
2008-12-18 09:22:36
186.   Bob Hendley
174 - Lived around there myself in the mid-60's, when my dad was stationed ar George AFB. Adelanto at that time was a church, a gas station and a post office. Nothing sweeter than higher desert snowfall.
2008-12-18 09:25:17
187.   old dodger fan
186 I lived on GAFB from 1961 - 1965. Went to Grammer School on the base and to Hook Jr High in Victorville.
2008-12-18 09:30:34
188.   underdog
184/185 - How about that!
And how about Ken Gurnick. Ugh, Ken, ugh.
"Because of Kuo's injury history, Torre treated the native of Taiwan like fine China early on."
2008-12-18 09:34:26
189.   Eric Enders
I had no idea Kuo led NL relievers in ERA last year. Those couple of shaky starts really jacked up his overall ERA.
2008-12-18 09:34:35
190.   Bob Hendley
187 - So when you say that you are an old Dodger fan, "old" refers to the Dodgers, no? We were there in 1966 (big snowfall that year). I went to school at Our Lady of No Me Recuerdo in Apple Valley (home to Roy and Dale (and a stuffed Trigger).
2008-12-18 09:37:57
191.   kngoworld
Is there a standard definition for set-up man? Is it the guy who pitches before the closer or the guy who mostly pitches the eighth inning? When Saito was healthy, Kuo mostly pitched the seventh inning in relief.
2008-12-18 09:39:59
192.   Jim Hitchcock
164 It's at 9 degrees in Carson City right now. Give me fleece or give me death.
2008-12-18 09:40:57
193.   kngoworld
Hey look at that, the 2009 payroll worksheet was updated down below. (probably mentioned yesterday) It is a little sad not to see Saito's name down there, but at least we are still graced with Schmidt's contract.
2008-12-18 09:43:22
194.   ToyCannon
Driving up Topanga this morning at 07:00 the Chatsworth hills were bathed in snow. Most of it has already melted off but it sure was pretty this morning. 1st time I've ever seen it, wish I'd had the time to climb Rocky Peak for a better look.
2008-12-18 09:45:02
195.   natepurcell
So I'm going to Vegas tomorrow and on I see multiple photos of Vegas being covered in snow.

All I can see is....crap.

2008-12-18 09:45:10
196.   natepurcell
So I'm going to Vegas tomorrow and on I see multiple photos of Vegas being covered in snow.

All I can say is....crap.

2008-12-18 09:45:45
197.   natepurcell
My frustration deserved two posts!
2008-12-18 09:48:45
198.   Eric Enders
Who spends time outdoors in Vegas anyway?
2008-12-18 09:49:04
199.   Jim Hitchcock
196 Guess you're driving?
2008-12-18 09:50:37
200.   Daniel Zappala
All the flights into Vegas were diverted to Salt Lake City.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-12-18 09:50:57
201.   Daniel Zappala
I guess its reasonable that Las Vegas has no de-icing or snow removal equipment.
2008-12-18 09:51:38
202.   old dodger fan
190 I saw my first Dodger game in person in 1959 so that makes me older than most folks here.

I had some friends who went to school there. Did you know the Guidry boys?

I lived on Sheppard St.

2008-12-18 09:51:55
203.   Tripon
Elton Brand out at least one month.
2008-12-18 09:52:52
204.   Jim Hitchcock
201 Nearest equipment is about an hour away, at Mt. Charleston.
2008-12-18 09:53:05
205.   jujibee
With the Twins seeming to be on the market for a SS, what would it take to pry D Young away from them with a package centered aroung Hu. Woould Hu, Garate, Pierre +6MM/year for the remainder of his contract, and one of McDonald/Elbert/Wade get it done?
2008-12-18 09:54:59
206.   Bob Timmermann
Los Angeles County has deicing equipment and snow plows. I can't see why Las Vegas can't bother to keep some around.
2008-12-18 09:55:46
207.   kngoworld
196 I live in Vegas.

There was a good amount of snowfall yesterday and last night. Some places got 8 inches. Good news, the mountains look beautiful and their is no more rain or snow in the forecast for the next few days. Bad news is you can expect low 40's temperature while you are here and thats the highs.

2008-12-18 09:56:34
208.   Disabled List
I went to Vegas at New Years once and got some snowfall, so it's not unheard of. I also remember seeing some snowfall in the hills above Porter Ranch one year. That was a strange sight.

NYC is expecting a mild blizzard tomorrow. Yay.

2008-12-18 09:57:45
209.   Tripon
205 Thats a lot for a guy on his way out with the Twins.
2008-12-18 09:57:56
210.   kngoworld
All the ground level snow has already melted on and near the strip, if that is where you are staying.
2008-12-18 09:57:59
211.   ToyCannon
Clipper fans can't help but giggle. I guess they won't be throwing their EB jerseys on the Staples floor on New Years Eve.
2008-12-18 09:59:36
212.   HoodedMafia
195 nate: Are you driving or flying to Vegas? What are you headed out there for?
2008-12-18 09:59:54
213.   Bob Timmermann
Will Harry Bailey still be able to get from New York to Bedord Falls in that blizzard? I hear his brother is in trouble.
2008-12-18 10:01:30
214.   Tripon
211 Considering that the Dodgers obtained Furcal on similar circumstances, I'm scared as heck that karmic justice is going to strike Furcal.
2008-12-18 10:02:29
215.   68elcamino427
As Torre closes in on the final years of his contract - is it two?

Torre really likes Furcal - and Furcal is a Dodger - a process accompanied by making some unwritten rules more "flexible" than normally accepted.

So who does Torre want his starting pitchers to be?
Does he want to add two more people that he likes? (Johnson + ??)

Does Torre need to do it now - or is it appropriate to let some of the younger less experienced people that are already on the 40 man give it a try till June?

If Manny is signed will that be a prelude to a trade for pitching?

Jus' wonder'in

2008-12-18 10:04:13
216.   MC Safety
It remember when it snowed in Long Beach. I think it had to have been like 1988 or 1989.
2008-12-18 10:05:52
217.   MC Safety
216 Umm...I remember.....
2008-12-18 10:09:28
218.   underdog
214 Eh, he'll probably just be tomahawk chopped in Atlanta.
2008-12-18 10:10:10
219.   Bob Timmermann
February of 1989.
2008-12-18 10:12:42
220.   MC Safety
211 That's hilarious.
2008-12-18 10:17:26
221.   MC Safety
Bob Timmermann rules.
2008-12-18 10:17:52
222.   natepurcell
Sorry guys, I got caught up in actual work.

Who spends time outdoors in Vegas anyway?

Las Vegas Bowl!!!!

A bunch of us are going out because U of A bball plays UNLV at 12 on saturday and then the Las Vegas bowl is that evening.

So we are driving out tomorrow after work and probably going to be awake for about 48 hours in a row.

2008-12-18 10:18:47
223.   natepurcell
Oh and we are staying at the Palazzo; the new suite at the Venetian- that is the Pac 10 hotel for the game.

I feel bad for Planet Hollywood as they are the Mountain West hotel for the game....

2008-12-18 10:19:11
224.   Eric Enders
Well, it's good that there's somebody in the world who's excited about the Las Vegas Bowl.
2008-12-18 10:20:08
225.   Bob Timmermann
I lived in the San Fernando Valley and there was enough snow for me to make a snow man.

More like a snow toddler.

2008-12-18 10:21:00
226.   Bob Timmermann
If you were a UCLA football fan, the Las Vegas Bowl is something you hope that your team can make.
2008-12-18 10:21:54
227.   D4P
I lived in the San Fernando Valley and there was enough snow for me to make a snow man. More like a snow toddler.

Or a snow Eckstein.

2008-12-18 10:22:43
228.   natepurcell

Considering that is our first bowl game in umm...I can't remember how long, you are gosh darn right I am excited!

2008-12-18 10:24:48
229.   Bob Timmermann
The 1998 Holiday Bowl

Arizona 23, Nebraska 20

2008-12-18 10:26:57
230.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona has won only five bowl games in its history and didn't win its first one until 1986 when it beat North Carolina in the Aloha Bowl.
2008-12-18 10:29:05
231.   The Trolley Dodger
219 229 Bob, have you ever considered a career in the library sciences? ;)
2008-12-18 10:30:07
232.   HoodedMafia
223 See you at the Palazzo! My buddies and I are leaving tomorrow morning. We are going to make the b-ball game and then the Vegas Bowl as well! BEAR DOWN!
2008-12-18 10:30:10
233.   D4P
Oregon won its first of 8 bowl games in 1917, defeating UPenn 14-0 in the Tournament of Roses Game.
2008-12-18 10:31:49
234.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona has won fewer bowl games than any other Pac-10 school. Even Washington State has won more.

Arizona has as many bowl wins as UTEP: 5,

2008-12-18 10:33:02
235.   berkowit28
I got a Dodger promotional brochure in the mail today "Line Drives", selling mini-plans, group tickets, etc. Its theme "2008 - a season to remember". It highlights the "young guns", ignoring for the most part, as you'd expect, free agents likely leaving the team. (No Penny, no Furcal - probably sorry about that today - no Kent, one small photo of Manny and of Casey Blake. Oddly, no mention anywhere of Blake DeWitt - maybe they 're thinking he'll be traded.)

Anyway, amongst the "features" are also a lot a full-page photo ads. On p. 3 "Soak it In... a Season to Remember - 2008" advertising ticket plans, is a huge photo of Martin and Broxton hugging each other, with someone wearing no. 7 full frontal. But it doesn't look like Loney (current no. 7) at all. The only person who it resembles, to my not very practised eye - is Luis Gonzales!

Anyone else get this brochure yet? Who is no. 7 on p. 3?

2008-12-18 10:39:57
236.   delias man
235 I noticed that the other day. I have been curious what their 09 marketing strategy will be. I guess it depends if Manny signs. If no Manny, maybe the rest of Los Angeles will know the kids finally via the marketing push.
2008-12-18 10:40:48
237.   Xeifrank
Oh, I see it's almost time for the NCAA College football exhibition season to start. Parades w/exhibition games, I think I'll pass.
vr, Xei
2008-12-18 10:42:38
238.   Eric Stephen
I have that at home, but I didn't open it yet. I'll check it out tonight.

Was it perhaps Joe Beimel in his custom #97 robe? :)

2008-12-18 10:44:17
239.   oshea2002
From the Keith Law chat:

Sad Giants Fan (sf): What do you see as Pablo Sandovals ceiling?

Keith Law: (1:39 PM ET ) About 300 pounds.

2008-12-18 10:47:15
240.   Eric Stephen
Could it be Luis Maza? Didn't he wear 57? Maybe the 5 got cut off.
2008-12-18 10:47:41
241.   oshea2002
I have no feel for how the Vegas Bowl will play out. I can't imagine BYU is happy with the way their season turned out, I can see them mailing this one in. Conversely, Arizona is Arizona, so who knows.
2008-12-18 10:47:46
242.   Bob Timmermann
The Las Vegas Bowl doesn't have a parade.

I don't think the magicJack St. Petersburg Bowl has one either.

2008-12-18 10:48:36
243.   Bob Timmermann
I believe BYU is a lot better than Arizona and should win easily.

Then again, BYU was a lot better than UCLA last year and was lucky to win.

2008-12-18 10:49:41
244.   kinbote
Sorry if this has already been posted, but it's a decent write-up of Bobby Abreu:

I'm not a real fan and I don't see a perfect fit, but I can see a scenario in which we add him for one or two years. He could play RF, moving Ethier to LF; and, he could bat somewhere in the middle of the order.

I still think it's Manny or bust on the outfield front, but if he somehow falls into our laps, and he's a Torre favorite (this I have no inkling about), I wouldn't be that surprised.

Please don't kill me here. I'm off for Winter Break and I'm just speckulatin'.

2008-12-18 10:52:20
245.   KG16
237 - so you'd rather have a crap shoot decide the "national champion" rather than the play of every team in the nation over the course of the year?

(I'm a bit feisty this morning)

2008-12-18 10:55:32
246.   Eric Stephen
237 ,245
It looks like I picked a perfect time to have a dental appointment!
2008-12-18 10:57:36
247.   Xeifrank
242. The Las Vegas Bowl may not have an "official" parade, but I bet somewhere in the dark bowels of the city there is bunting and streamers getting hung up.
vr, Xei
2008-12-18 10:57:44
248.   MC Safety
College Football Thoughts!


2008-12-18 10:58:05
249.   mwhite06
244 I could see Abreu, Dunn or Burrell fitting in the outfield if Manny doesn't sign. Unfortunately, Ned said on 570 last night that if they don't sign Manny they will turn their efforts to signing a pitcher-- therefore leaving them content with Jones or Pierre playing every day. As a result of this new development, I am now firmly in the bring Manny back crowd.
2008-12-18 10:58:09
250.   underdog
239 That made me laugh out loud.

Sandoval may make Miggy Cabrera look like Kate Moss before too long.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-12-18 11:01:12
251.   Xeifrank
245. My 8 team playoff system is published. I would prefer 12, but given that having a two team playoff was like pulling teeth (dental appointment reference), 8 is more realistic than 12. My 8 team playoff system also preserves the all important parades, better known as the Parades System, or PS.
vr, Xei
2008-12-18 11:01:17
252.   oshea2002
Ben (Middlefield, CT): Would Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera be a good starting point to get the Dodgers to discuss trading Matt Kemp?

Keith Law: (1:55 PM ET ) No, it's not close to sufficient.

2008-12-18 11:04:15
253.   underdog
252 - I liked this one, too:

Charlie (Bored at work): Andruw Jones for Hideki Matsui. Who hangs up first?

Keith Law: (1:56 PM ET ) Me. (click)


I asked him about Hu/DeJesus but doubt he'll answer.

2008-12-18 11:05:58
254.   Disabled List
248 Harrumph. College Football Thoughts is second only to Dodger Thoughts as the best topic of discussion around here.

Maybe Fast-Food Hamburger Thoughts is ahead of it too. Also, BBQ Thoughts. I remember a Chili Thoughts thread once, that was pretty good.

I'm hungry.

2008-12-18 11:10:59
255.   underdog
I enjoy college football thoughts but as a UCLA fan, and no alumni football team to support, I haven't been as into it as some people, as of late. Still, I look forward to some of the bowls and hope there'll be something even close to that Boise St game the other year.

Btw, where do people see Tebow being drafted when he comes out for the draft? 3rd round? I wonder if he'll be another Rex Grossman, or worse, Eric Crouch, though I expect better than that.

2008-12-18 11:11:12
256.   Jim Hitchcock
246 Yeah, me too. Forking over big bucks today.
2008-12-18 11:12:05
257.   Bob Timmermann
I thought Tim Tebow was projected to be a tight end in the NFL.
2008-12-18 11:12:27
258.   Jim Hitchcock
But it's better than looking like Alfred E. Neuman.
2008-12-18 11:13:10
259.   Tripon
255 Late First rounder to 2nd rounder. Some team like the Lions are going to panic and pick the 'big' name, even though Tebow's not a NFL QB.
2008-12-18 11:15:11
260.   Andrew Shimmin
I think Eric was dreading BCS Thoughts, not generic college football ones. BCS Thoughts have been in reruns for years.
2008-12-18 11:16:10
261.   Disabled List
I love college football. I consider it my annual duty to man the barricades against those who want to ruin the best regular season in any sport with a playoff system.

Just say no to playoffs!

2008-12-18 11:17:12
262.   Andrew Shimmin
The final arbiter of all human knowledge says that Tebow majored in Family, Youth and Community Sciences. So he's got that going for him.
2008-12-18 11:18:19
263.   Tripon
Vote yes for playoffs because there's about 8 or 9 teams that argue that they're number one.

Also how does 'every game' counts when a team like Florida can lose one early and still makes the NC game, or a team like OU can lose to Texas and still make the NC game?

2008-12-18 11:22:07
264.   Marty
And a team like USC can lose to Oregon State, wait nevermind.
2008-12-18 11:23:02
265.   milkshakeballa
Speaking of fast food hamburger thoughts --

I will be going to Five Guys Burgers and Fries today...

and that is better than In-N-Out...

I highly recommend it to everyone here esp. those cajun fries.

There is one in cerritos and one in carson!

Am i the spokesperson for 5 guys?

2008-12-18 11:23:51
266.   Disabled List
Almost all of those 8 or 9 teams had a chance to take care of business at some point during the regular season and seal the deal. At some point, they all stumbled. So they got the writers, coaches and computers together, figured it out, and came up with OU vs. Fla. It's not a perfect system, of course, but it's as good a title game as any.

If Texas doesn't think that's fair, then they should've beat Texas Tech.

2008-12-18 11:24:24
267.   Kevin Lewis
I placed a nice 3 game parlay while I was in Vegas.

USC -10
USC/Penn State Over 45
Oklahoma to win

2008-12-18 11:25:00
268.   Tripon
265 But who intentionally drives to Carson? =P
2008-12-18 11:26:46
269.   eekrock
265 you are not the only one. after hearing about it via Dodger Thoughts, I took the 5 minute drive to the Cerritos location and have since spread the Word to friends and family. Bacon Cheeseburger, ordered All the Way.


College Pointy Ball Thoughts hurts my soul a little bit, but if that's the most of my worries I'm doing fine this time of year.

2008-12-18 11:27:47
270.   eekrock
268 the Home Depot Center is quite nice, and I find myself driving there a few times a year. :)
2008-12-18 11:27:55
271.   MC Safety
268 Someone has never been to Go Kart World.
2008-12-18 11:30:55
272.   Eric Stephen
I think you will win 2 of those 3. I think Florida will win (unfortunately) but I wouldn't bet on it.
2008-12-18 11:30:57
273.   Tripon
266 Potentially, you got guys like Plaschke, and Simers deciding who should play in the NC game. How is that logical?

Okay, let me put it this way, there's playoffs for every other NCAA sport including all the way to 1-AA(or whatever they call it these days), but not for 1-A? You don't even have to dismantle the bowl system, you can even keep the current BCS system. The only reason we don't have a playoff today because its easier to bribe the current presidents and coaches under the current bowl system than it would under a playoff season.

2008-12-18 11:32:35
274.   Marty
If anyone finds themselves close to Vernon (insert why would I do that joke here) Check out Mike's Hockey Burger on Washington and Soto. Their double cheeseburgers are only 3.50.

BTW, a Hockey Burger is a cheese burger with a Louisiana sausage on it. Kinda like a Shack Burger from The Shack.

2008-12-18 11:33:16
275.   MC Safety
269 It's been a while. Big game for the Gunners this weekend. And we have Eduardo to look forward to in a couple of weeks!
2008-12-18 11:33:49
276.   Gagne55
251 No link?
2008-12-18 11:34:27
277.   regfairfield
The closest Ikea is in Carson. A bachelor needs a place where he can pretend he has class.
2008-12-18 11:34:40
278.   eekrock
274 or like a Big Mike's Soul Burger, in Bellflower.

Milkshake, you should check that place out if you are local to Cerritos. A touch ghetto...but seriously good.

2008-12-18 11:34:59
279.   Kevin Lewis

I think Oklahoma has a good shot. Honestly. I don't mind if I lose...this will make me enjoy the games much more. Of course, it will suck if USC doesn't win by 10 or cover the over. Then I would have nothing to look forward to over the next week,

2008-12-18 11:37:32
280.   Tripon
277 Ironically, 5 Guys is in the same plaza as the Ikea.

I may be misusing the word Ironic.

2008-12-18 11:37:54
281.   Gagne55
"If Texas doesn't think that's fair, then they should've beat Texas Tech."

Yup. Or played an out of conference schedule comparable to Oklahoma's.

2008-12-18 11:39:25
282.   Marty
280 Never confuse irony for coincidence.
2008-12-18 11:40:10
283.   Tripon
Meanwhile, OU is patting themselves on the back for losing by 10 to Texas.
2008-12-18 11:40:30
284.   regfairfield
That's not irony, that's what happened.
2008-12-18 11:40:59
285.   Disabled List
273 All true. But you've also got college football writers and observers who know the game inside and out voting on those polls too. (The coaches are the ones who shouldn't be allowed to vote, but that's another issue.)

Just because there's playoffs for other sports doesn't mean there HAS to be one for Div. 1-A. The regular season is short enough and intense enough that it essentially functions like a season-long playoff: one loss and you're done. Every game in the season is of huge importance. USC's lone loss way back in the third game of the season took them out of the BCS title game. Under a playoff system, that loss would've been forgotten about the day after it happened.

This entire season saw one huge game after another (thanks to the dominant teams in the SEC and Big 12). A playoff system would rob us of that. Instead of critical, life-or-death games in October and November, the regular season would diminish to what it is in the NFL or NBA: nothing more than a way to seed the postseason tournament.

Sure, it's kind of arbitrary to pick Florida and Oklahoma when there are other teams every bit as deserving. But so what? We don't need to have the tournament just because every other sport has one. The game itself is entertaining enough.

2008-12-18 11:41:00
286.   Tripon

The 2010 FA class looks weak.

2008-12-18 11:43:03
287.   eekrock
275 aye, the next two weeks are massive since we have Villa after the scousers.

Hopefully Eduardo & Walcott are back in time for the knockout stages of the CL.

also, i still read consistently, i just let people smarter than me do the talking/typing. :)

2008-12-18 11:43:18
288.   gibsonhobbs88
Considering the likely probability that Ned would not have settled for a Hu/DeJesus shortstop battle this year if they did not sign Furcal, I guess I'm okay with signing Furcal (with fingers crossed for his health, of course). We most likely assume Ned would have gone after an Orlando Cabrera or Omar Vizquel on a 1 year or 2 year deal on the cheap if Furcal had signed elsewhere. Also, since they have back-loaded the deal where more money will go to Furcal in the later years, it does leave the Dodgers more room now to still try to land Manny. After listening to Ned on KLAC the other night, if they don't land Manny, it doesn't sound like they would go after a Dunn or Abreau or Burrell. He said they would turn their focus on strengthening the pitching at that point. So, if no Manny, we are going to have to put up with either JP or Captain Whiff in the outfield. Just a reality check for everyone before Christmas! Happy Holidays everyone!!
2008-12-18 11:44:25
289.   Tripon

Twins tried to trade for J.J. Hardy and Yunel Escobar. Maybe they would want Hu in a trade.

2008-12-18 11:45:51
290.   Bob Hendley
Bison lust from Yank fans suggests that they must really miss Dave Winfield (or is it Bernie?).
2008-12-18 11:47:36
291.   Tripon
285 Except losing a game at times doesn't knock you out of the national championship games. It didn't knock out Nebraska in 01, and it didn't knock out OU in 04. Because of that, we got subpar National Championship games. What you're arguing is that we should sacrifice the NC game for a great regular season, where I can see the merit to that, but a bad ending can ruin a good season too. And the BCS has the potential and does semi-regularly hurting the sport with bad matchups as much as any 'playoff system' would in hurting the regular season.
2008-12-18 11:48:40
292.   MC Safety
287 Definitely. We're going to need them, as it's looking like we're getting a group winner in the CL. I'm just praying we don't get Barca. They have been playing some ridiculous football this year.
2008-12-18 11:49:45
293.   Tripon
290 Yankees fans plan for Matt Kemp after they trade for him.

- Have him start in Center Field for one year. Then give the job to Austin Jackson.

- Turn Matt Kemp into yet another corner outfielder. Of which they're already carrying 5 or 6 of them on the roster.

2008-12-18 11:50:51
294.   Bob Hendley
202 - Don't recall the Guidry boys at the school or what street I lived on. On base, I hung out playing pool at the youth center with guys named Bob Blake and Tom Beck. (Looks like I am just a bit younger than you and was there a year after you left).
2008-12-18 11:51:13
295.   Xeifrank
273. Logic doesn't work, it's already been tried. vr, Xei
2008-12-18 11:51:55
296.   Disabled List
291 I can totally agree with that. Nebraska going to the title game in '01 was an abomination. I'm not defending the BCS as much as I'm defending the merits of not having a postseason tournament.
2008-12-18 11:52:51
297.   Xeifrank
276. Yes, there is a link.
vr, Xei
2008-12-18 11:53:55
298.   bferb
286 I had commented on this the other day. Much weaker than this year IMO. Brian Roberts is intriguing to me, but Im assuming between DeWitt/DeJesus we've got 2B covered for now, unless we were to trade the Most Interesting Man in the World and move DeWitt back to third.

Otherwise, there is Bay or Holliday for LF if we dont resign Manny.

Not much in the SP field other than injury prone guys like Harden/Bedard.

One guy I have become a huge fan of is Ryan Madson, who would be an excellent addition to any 'pen - but since he is a Boras client he might be too pricy to sign for our pen.

I suspect next year's off-season could be very quiet in the Ravine

2008-12-18 11:54:40
299.   Eric Enders
281 Texas did play a nonconference schedule comparable to Oklahoma's. Probably a little better, actually -- OU played one FCS team and also played what was basically a de facto FCS team, Washington. To balance that out they played noted powerhouses Cincinnati (oooh!) and TCU (aaah!).

Often lost in the shuffle of the out-of-conference nonsense is the fact that Texas played an in-conference schedule much tougher than Oklahoma's.

Two teams have virtually identical resumes. One of them beat the other on a neutral field. It ain't exactly rocket science.

2008-12-18 11:54:55
300.   eekrock
292 the group winners and the group runners up look equally tough to me. in addition to Barca, i'm also hoping to miss Inter, as i can't stand the "Special One" and would rather lose to the worst team than his.

i can't wait until the Transfer Window opens. i can't see Wenger leaving the squad as is. somebody should be coming in, and hopefully it's a defensive midfielder, ffs.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-12-18 11:55:31
301.   Tripon
298 If the Dodgers don't sign Manny, they need to keep LF open for Andrew Lambo, if he pans out.
2008-12-18 11:56:36
302.   Humma Kavula
286 All the more reason to invest in Manny this year. He can be the bridge to Lambo. If we don't get him, we can look at Bay, I guess, or Crawford, if he bounces back, or Holliday, if he can hit outside of Colorado... but I can't imagine any of those deals being right. Manny for three years makes a lot of sense to me.
2008-12-18 11:58:14
303.   mwhite06
I'm not so sure you could keep the bowl system and move to a playoff. The argument being that teams won't travel to neutral sites in Semi-Final games if they believe they will have a National Championship game to travel to the next week. A playoff system would almost certainly need to be like the NFL, where all games except for the Super Bowl is hosted at one teams field. As somebody who grew up absolutely romanticizing the Rose Bowl, the thought of that game going away in a playoff system would be a bit painful.
2008-12-18 11:58:18
304.   Gagne55
The BCS system works great when there are two, and only two, unbeaten big conference teams. Would anybody rather have had a playoff than USC-Texas or Ohio State-Miami? Unfortunately, such conditions are fairly infrequent. So some years an unbeaten like Auburn gets screwed. Sometimes an unbeaten gets to face one of many once beatens (Ohio State - Florida). And last year was a total mess with a twice beaten team winning the championship. So no matter what system is used, it will be good in some years and not good in others.
2008-12-18 12:00:10
305.   bferb
301 302 I'm all about Manny with Lambo waiting in the wings...
2008-12-18 12:01:17
306.   Humma Kavula
298 Agreed about Roberts.... a good player who makes a nice fit for a team that needs a second baseman. Unelss both Hu, DeJesus, and DeWitt all crater this year, I can't see the Dodgers going that way, but I do like him as a player.
2008-12-18 12:01:33
307.   oshea2002
299 - Neither was great, but Texas' was bad. Scheduling FAU, Rice, and Utep, you run the risk that the good team you schedule, Arkansas, may be bad in that year. I do agree on the in conference schedule though
2008-12-18 12:02:18
308.   kinbote
262 HAL 9000?
2008-12-18 12:03:51
309.   Sean P

Yes, your right. I for one would much rather see Florida and Oklahoma playing hugely important games against UT Chattanooga and the Citadel than have to watch them beat up sissies like USC and Penn St. in a round-robin playoff game to get a chance to play each other in the the national championship.

2008-12-18 12:04:38
310.   KG16
251 - someone (espn?) suggested a 16 team playoff, allowing in all the conference champs and 4 at large teams. I might be good with that, except the consternation on those at large bids would be insane.

I really prefer the old system. I don't care that there are multiple national champions some years. I also like having bowls with independent meaning. It use to be fun, now it's corporate.

2008-12-18 12:09:27
311.   bablue
For cargill, where do you get the stat lines by position? Like our season numbers for 3B and OF and all that. I thought they were on baseball-reference but I can't find them.
2008-12-18 12:12:01
312.   Disabled List
309 Yes, you're right. In fact, we should just get rid of the regular season and all those UT-Chattanooga games and just go straight to the playoffs. How about a 16-team bracket based on the AP preseason poll, starting in September and ending in October. Wouldn't last very long, but it would sure would be exciting.

And that way you wouldn't have to sit through a meaningless game like USC-Oregon State. Who wants to watch a game like that in September?

2008-12-18 12:14:43
313.   Lexinthedena
So does no Manny = Ben Sheets?
2008-12-18 12:17:29
314.   D4P
no Manny = X baseball fields or Y beachfront mansions
2008-12-18 12:21:23
315.   bferb
No Manny = ? less wins (I know some of you have calculated this number, but I have not)
2008-12-18 12:21:49
316.   cargill06

It's under the team page, and click on batting splits.

2008-12-18 12:22:30
317.   MC Safety
300 Yah, there's not much difference. Didn't Inter get beat by Gilberto's new club that I'm not even going to attempt to spell? I'm not too worried about Inter. We definitely need a defensive mid, though. Song, Denilson, Diaby and possibly Eboue are nowhere near Top 4 quality. Wenger needs to get that mess sorted out, and I'm confidant he will. We should be far better off than we are in the Prem. Oh, and Tottenham are getting whooped by Spartak Moscow as we comment. That's something to cheer about. The first goal was a hilarious mix up between Gilberto and Gomes. Comical stuff.
2008-12-18 12:23:22
318.   El Lay Dave
308 Sans the space, that was my first computer "handle" ever, a userID "alias" on a UCLA DEC-10 computer in 1979. I'm no more creative now than I was then.
2008-12-18 12:26:30
319.   Jim Hitchcock
318 But are you wiser ? :)
2008-12-18 12:26:32
320.   old dodger fan
294 I don't remember those guys but I did play some pool there. Mostly played baseball across the street.
2008-12-18 12:29:31
321.   Sean P

What a terrific comeback. I am definitely suggesting that the regular season should be abolished for a round-robin season based on pre-season polls. I certainly am in no way suggesting that the 119 DI teams play a regular season schedule in an effort to qualify for the 16 available spots in a post-season round-robin tournament so that an undisputed national champion could be determined on the field.

2008-12-18 12:35:48
322.   Gagne55
Here's the difference in Texas/Oklahoma's schedules:

Out of conference:
Florida Atlantic (6-6, 4-3 Sunbelt)
UTEP (5-7, 4-4 C-USA)
Arkansas (5-7, 2-6 SEC)
Rice (9-3, 7-1 C-USA)

Chattanooga (1-11, FCS)
Cincinnati (11-2, 6-1 Big East, #11 BCS)
Washington (0-11, 0-9 Pac-10)
TCU (10-2, 7-1 Big West, #12 BCS)

So, Texas got lots of mediocrity. Oklahoma, got two freebies and two games against quality opponents.

In Conference:
Colorado (5-7, 2-6 Big 12)
Missouri (9-4, 5-3 Big 12, #21 BCS)

Kansas State (5-7, 2-6 Big 12)
Nebraska (8-4, 5-3 Big 12)

Kansas State and Colorado is a wash. Missouri was a bit better that Nebraska, but not as good as Cincinnati or TCU.

2008-12-18 12:37:06
323.   El Lay Dave
Doesn't BCS Thoughts invariably descend into rule 2, 3, and sometimes 4 violations?

There is no fair system that will get 119 teams playing 12-game schedules to crown one indisputable champion. There will ALWAYS be significance in subjective criteria. I am in favor of the whatever causes the most money to pass through the most hands possible - it's what our economy needs!

2008-12-18 12:37:25
324.   underdog
Very sad news about a Dodger prospect:

Dodgers prospect in Dominican Republic killed by companion

Man, terrible...

2008-12-18 12:39:20
325.   Sean P

Here's the difference that should matter just a little bit more:

Texas 45, Oklahoma 35

2008-12-18 12:39:36
326.   El Lay Dave
319 The only thing I can claim with certainty is that I am older.
2008-12-18 12:41:10
327.   LogikReader

The Accompanying Picture is really creepy. Is that a photo of him after the fact?

2008-12-18 12:41:40
328.   qazplm
235 - It looks like Loney to me.
2008-12-18 12:41:47
329.   LogikReader
Awful news, underdog. My heart goes out to the entire Sanchez family.
2008-12-18 12:45:05
330.   Gagne55
325 If Texas and Texas Tech had the same record and Texas Tech won head to head, shouldn't Texas Tech go?
2008-12-18 12:48:41
331.   El Lay Dave
327 That is a tragedy. The is a less-cropped, no more creepy photo on a Spanish-language version of the same story. It would seem that he's wrapped in a blanket or something. I wouldn't be surprised if that is on-scene, before transport to the hospital. Chilling.

2008-12-18 12:56:54
332.   Andrew Shimmin
308- Wikipedia. So, close. If wikipedia ever acquires sentience, I'd say it was a fair bet that civilization would end. But it would still be pretty awesome.
2008-12-18 12:58:18
333.   berkowit28
328 I figure it has to be Loney - otherwise what's it doing there? But it doesn't look like Loney at all - too heavy, fat face, no big eyes - even if maybe one day he had a bit of a beard. Even Broxton doesn't look quite right. (And we only see Martin's back.)

Do you think they had some artist draw this as a (poor) sketch, rather than use an actual photo because they couldn't find one they wanted? As with the other full-page ads, the photo quality is really crappy, compared to the smaller photos in the "articles". If it's not a sketch, it must be a TV motion freeze-shot, probably "touched up" in a way that loses actual likenesses. Probably the facial expressions were too blurry so they mucked them up in an attempt to make them clearer. Really trashy. It doesn't look like Loney to me, but it must have been him originally.

2008-12-18 13:01:22
334.   Jim Hitchcock
332 If that happens, will the face of Wikipedia be Hugo Weaving?
2008-12-18 13:02:55
335.   cargill06
0 I just realized the subliminal message in Jon's post. I know who he wants roaming in LF next year.
2008-12-18 13:04:24
336.   El Lay Dave
Per Diamond Leung, Dodgers made a couple minor moves too. Daniel Zappala can renew his membership in the Mitch Jones Marching and Chowder Society.

2008-12-18 13:08:53
337.   eekrock
317 i have more faith in Diaby then Eboue. Eboue could be a useful squad player, but no more. Denilson could grow into a great player, but he is not currently competent to be a starter of a top 4 team. i'm pretty much with the arseblogger on bringing in too many youngsters at once gives them no protection.

i love Arse thoughts.

2008-12-18 13:10:03
338.   DaveP
317 - Tottenham have gotten back into the game. should be a good finish.
2008-12-18 13:10:06
339.   Daniel Zappala
336 Hooray! This has got to be the year he plays and gets his first major league at bat. Same with John Lindsey.
2008-12-18 13:13:59
340.   eekrock
338 - nice to see Citeh losing. normally i'll pull for English teams, but not after the bold claims they've been making. it would also be nice to see a player like Robinho sit out of the world's premier competition for a few years all for the sake of money.
2008-12-18 13:15:19
341.   oshea2002
Keith Law will be on 710 at 1:45 to discuss the Dodgers.
2008-12-18 13:15:32
342.   bhsportsguy
339 You and I will be rooting for the same team on Saturday.
2008-12-18 13:16:10
343.   Daniel Zappala
342 What brings you to our side? Cash?
2008-12-18 13:17:29
344.   Eric Enders
322 Don't forget the home/road factor.

Oklahoma had a home game against Texas Tech.
Tech had a home game against Texas.
Texas had a home game against neither.

Plus they played the north champ on the road when neither of the other teams faced them at all.

2008-12-18 13:19:12
345.   trainwreck
BRO has become Morrell Presley Report Online.
2008-12-18 13:19:40
346.   eekrock
338 and 'appy 'arry may just be pulling another rabbit out of another hat. sheesh.


2008-12-18 13:19:53
347.   Eric Enders
335 Billy Bathe?
2008-12-18 13:22:13
348.   DaveP
336 - yeah. and they're pressing for the 3rd. It's been all Tottenham the last 20 minutes.
2008-12-18 13:23:07
349.   DaveP
348 was mean for 346 obviously.
2008-12-18 13:24:15
350.   Humma Kavula
1. If the Dodgers sign Manny Ramirez -- and they should, says I -- then Mitch Jones should look for other opportunities for that first ML plate appearance. Between Pierre and The Other (Othur?) Jones and Young, we have enough choices for backup outfielder.

2. If the Dodgers do not sign Manny Ramirez, then it would be interesting to see Mitch Jones in Dodger Blue.

Have you met Mitch Jones
Someone said as we shook hands
He was just Mitch Jones to me.....

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-12-18 13:24:26
351.   Bob Timmermann
Butter and flour.
2008-12-18 13:26:46
352.   Eric Enders
And here I thought Bob was a butter and egg man.
2008-12-18 13:31:44
353.   kinbote
350 Xavier Paul is a sleeper prospect. For someone with a compact frame, he has a little pop and a good outfield arm. Anyone who forgets about him is hereby sentenced to watch the 2008 Shane Victorino highlight package.
2008-12-18 13:31:55
354.   Daniel Zappala
351 Oh come on, Bob, now everyone's going to start Googling that, and they're going to be out of luck.
2008-12-18 13:32:03
355.   68elcamino427
Sandy Koufax.

Just feels good to put that out there.

2008-12-18 13:32:33
356.   MC Safety
338 346 I swear every time I make fun of Tottenham, it comes back to bite me. Check out the thread from the 4-4 Arsenal v Tottenham game. I'm pretty sure I'm talking to myself, but that makes it all the more funny.
2008-12-18 13:32:43
357.   Daniel Zappala
353 All I want is a September callup and an at-bat in an otherwise meaningless game.
2008-12-18 13:34:08
358.   D4P
Would you settle for a plate appearance...?
2008-12-18 13:34:10
359.   Bob Timmermann
The butter and flour wars are going to be decided on New Year's Eve in a showdown in the O.C.

No quarter given, no asked for.

Expect deliciousness.

2008-12-18 13:34:39
360.   Humma Kavula
353 I'm not saying Mitch Jones should replace Xavier Paul or block him or anything.

Mitch Jones is not a major leaguer. If we see him in Chavez Ravine next year, it means that things have gone poorly for the Dodgers on the won-loss front.

That said, if that comes to pass, 50 at-bats of Mitch Jones would be fun.

2008-12-18 13:43:19
361.   kinbote
360 I know. I'm just giving you a hard time :) All this is why I was a little baffled by our decision to offer Repko a contract. I think if given the chance, Paul could do about as well as Repko and as poorly as Pierre.
2008-12-18 13:45:04
362.   kinbote
So what's the deal? Is Kinzer shopping around our term sheet to other teams now?
2008-12-18 13:45:07
363.   bigcpa
341 Thanks for the heads up. Gammons just predicted the Angels sign Manny for 4 yrs. Unfortunately that sounds very plausible.
2008-12-18 13:49:58
364.   trainwreck
We will get them back by signing Garret Anderson to a 4-year deal!!!!
2008-12-18 13:50:18
365.   Bob Timmermann
High School Musical on Ice at Staples Center tonight has been postponed because the trucks carrying the sets is stuck in the Grapevine.

So what should I do tonight instead?

2008-12-18 13:50:29
366.   trainwreck
Just kidding...hopefully.
2008-12-18 13:51:22
367.   Eric Stephen
A Kennedy High combo perhaps? :)
2008-12-18 13:52:42
368.   Bob Timmermann
I think that would be a splendid idea. I will go buy clothing in my school colors to remind Messrs. Anderson and Garland what the school colors were.

Brown and gold.

2008-12-18 13:53:09
369.   bigcpa
These 710 guys always waste good guests like Law by just trying to extract whispers of who's-going-where. Ask him what he thinks of the Dodgers & Angels and then shut up.
2008-12-18 13:53:58
370.   Eric Enders
Like the Padres' cheeseburger uniforms? Ugh. No wonder Kennedy High grads get no respect.
2008-12-18 13:54:29
371.   trainwreck
Kennedy High must not have many good basketball or football players come out lately, because I had never heard of it.
2008-12-18 14:00:27
372.   Bob Timmermann
Kennedy High was pretty good in football and basketball back when I went there.

But I'm 43.

The most notable football players are Jeff Bregel, who was on the vanguard of steroid abuse at USC and with the 49ers, and Dion Lambert, who played for UCLA and later the Patriots, and now coaches the team.

The career rushing leader for the CFL went to Kennedy High, Mike Pringle.

The best basketball players were former UCLA "stars" Darren Daye and Stuart Gray.

2008-12-18 14:04:27
373.   tjdub
370 But if the school is named after 80's Padres legend Terry Kennedy?
2008-12-18 14:07:43
374.   Bob Timmermann
In a prescient move, the school was actually named for the yet to be born MTV personality.
2008-12-18 14:09:12
375.   trainwreck
That would be a lot more sad than you going to see High School Musical on Ice.
2008-12-18 14:09:31
376.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Nurse Chapel

Aka Majel Barrett Rodenberry.

2008-12-18 14:11:00
377.   Bob Timmermann
I'm going out to see Eldridge Cleaver's Soul on Ice on Ice.
2008-12-18 14:12:44
378.   trainwreck
You are going to smoke meth? ; )
2008-12-18 14:14:11
379.   trainwreck
Ice is a nickname for meth, if that was not an obvious enough joke.
2008-12-18 14:14:46
380.   Jacob Burch
376 And the voice of "Computer." I remember being sadly disappointed when my computer never talked like her.

Sadness all around, then.

2008-12-18 14:16:28
381.   Bob Timmermann
Fortunately trainwreck was born after Letterman used that Eldridge Cleaver joke back when he had the late night spot on NBC.
2008-12-18 14:19:23
382.   trainwreck
The only reason I know that Dave Letterman had the late night spot on NBC was because of Crispin Glover.
2008-12-18 14:20:02
383.   underdog
If the Reds were indeed looking for a young shortstop, and possibly still a CF-er, any chance a Hu and Pierre for Arroyo seem to make any sense?

I mean, if we're playing armchair GMs here...

2008-12-18 14:21:56
384.   underdog
I'm actually old enough to remember when David Letterman had a morning show! (Although I was in elementary school then I believe.)
2008-12-18 14:22:13
385.   Lexinthedena
What about Hu and D. Young for Maholm or Snell?


Hu and D. young for D. Young?

2008-12-18 14:22:22
386.   trainwreck
2008-12-18 14:22:57
387.   underdog
383 "would make any.." - not "seem to" -- the grammarchecker in my brain is off duty today.
2008-12-18 14:23:25
388.   Eric Stephen
I seem to remember being on a field trip in high school and somehow watching Letterman's final NBC broadcast on the bus.
2008-12-18 14:24:34
389.   underdog

(for example)

It was really awesome. I was too young to fully appreciate it then but saw it again later and thought -- I can see why he moved to late night. Was a weird time slot for that show.

2008-12-18 14:24:56
390.   Lexinthedena
Soul on Ice on Ice made me laugh....Maybe I should read the book.
2008-12-18 14:27:58
391.   68elcamino427
Letterman continuoulsly bagging on the NBC "Suits" during his final year at the network. Was that an amicable parting of the ways?

No - I think not.

2008-12-18 14:28:14
392.   bhsportsguy
Yep, Letterman had a morning show, it was on for about a year and then canceled but he was kept under contract for about a year until Late Night premiered in 1982.

There a few people that have worked with him on all three shows.

2008-12-18 14:28:36
393.   trainwreck
I am not getting any of these references at all haha.
2008-12-18 14:29:00
394.   Gagne55
380 And the Orion exotic dancer and in The Next Generation, Diana Troi's mom. She was Star Trek's utility player.
2008-12-18 14:35:48
395.   Daniel Zappala
I remember when Letterman was a weatherman in Indianapolis. Well, not really, but there is a Trivial Pursuit question about it.
2008-12-18 14:36:15
396.   Bob Timmermann
During Letterman's daytime show he would banter back and forth with Edwin Newman when the latter gave a news update.

Eventually, NBC News decided that was unseemly. Of course, now you have evening news anchors turning up on "The Daily Show."

2008-12-18 14:36:40
397.   bhsportsguy
392 Biff Henderson and Barbara Gaines are two individuals who have worked with Letterman since his first talk show.
2008-12-18 14:42:19
398.   trainwreck
Good old, Biff.
2008-12-18 14:43:00
399.   bferb
The biggest Furcal story aftershock - apparently the Braves will never be signing another player from the Wasserman Group (which includes over 60 players and a lot of stars young and old)

2008-12-18 14:43:17
400.   bhsportsguy
Letterman was in a Movie of the Week in the 1979, "Fast Friends," a tale of a young divorced woman struggling to raise her young son and to succeed at her new job on the staff of a TV talk show, where she becomes close to the show's head writer.

Letterman played the talk show host.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-12-18 14:44:11
401.   Bob Timmermann
I'm going to relax tonight watching my box set of DVDs of "Starland Vocal Band" shows.
2008-12-18 14:45:53
402.   underdog
400 It's no Cabin Boy, however.
2008-12-18 14:45:57
403.   Eric Stephen
On an story, there is also a voicemail from [Furcal's agent] Paul Kinzer to [Braves' GM] Frank Wren saying, "We're good. Raffy's excited. Send me the term sheet."

Shady or not, I'm still happy Furcal is (reportedly) back in blue.

2008-12-18 14:47:15
404.   D4P
I still don't know what that shark-man's name was.

Sharkie? Chuckie? Chalkie?

2008-12-18 14:48:23
405.   Marty
I remember Letterman's morning show very well. I was working swing shift back then. That's where Stupid Pet Tricks started.
2008-12-18 14:48:45
406.   silverwidow
I got this as an e-mail forward:

BK Whopper Body Spray

2008-12-18 14:48:46
407.   underdog
It sounds like it may also have been a case of the two agents not communicating that well with each other and with Furcal, and they committed before Furcal had decided. It seems shady but even more it might be just really not communicating well. Maybe he really did think Furcal was all in for Atlanta when in actuality he wasn't. On the other hand, they could just be really sleazy. Either way, good for them for sticking up for themselves.

And good for us for having Furcal.

2008-12-18 14:49:02
408.   bferb
403 It was very shady. Tellem didnt even defend it, and just blamed Kinzer (according to Shuerholz).

I hope Furcal isn't cursed in some way.

2008-12-18 14:49:20
409.   Eric Stephen

2008-12-18 14:49:53
410.   Lexinthedena
403 That doesn't necessarily mean that he he meant "we are going to sign"...Though I think it does.
2008-12-18 14:50:21
411.   Marty
I think I've told my Cabin Boy story before.

I worked 36 straight hours and then went to my hotel room. I was so tired I couldn't fall asleep so I turned the TV on and Cabin Boy was showing. I think because my brain was so fried I thought it was the funniest movie I ever saw.

I can't remember anything about it now.

2008-12-18 14:52:14
412.   bhsportsguy
411 I love Letterman and Chris Elliot but could not force myself to see that movie.
2008-12-18 14:53:21
413.   ryu
Hey, is our own Jon Weisman now a writer for the Wall Street Journal? Or is it just a coincidence that they also have a reporter named Jonathan Weisman?

2008-12-18 14:57:22
414.   underdog
Weird, Alfred Molina's in that movie (uncredited). Go figure!

Also having small roles (besides Letterman): Ricki Lake, Andy Richter, Chris Elliot's dad...

2008-12-18 14:57:39
415.   underdog
413 - A coincidence.
2008-12-18 14:58:14
416.   Jacob Burch
413 This reminds me to start that DT FAQ I was meaning to write...

Not the same person.

2008-12-18 14:58:30
417.   fanerman
Ricki Lake. That's a name I haven't heard in awhile.
2008-12-18 14:59:26
418.   trainwreck
I need to watch Cabin Boy again in a different state of mind.

I remember it was funny when I was young.

2008-12-18 14:59:59
419.   Jacob Burch
I think fanerman is trying to secretly tell us he's Ricki Lake.
2008-12-18 15:02:51
420.   fanerman
419 The Ricki Lake show ended in August 2004. I joined the Toaster around July/August 2004. Coincidence, or not?
2008-12-18 15:04:16
421.   Gagne55
Plus, our site's creator is actually named just "Jon." Usually, Jon is short for Jonathan while John stands alone but not in this case.
2008-12-18 15:05:27
422.   underdog
420 The resemblance is uncanny. :-/


Hey, it's Bleacher Report's 10 Greatest Baseball Songs.

Hey, it's underdog procrastinating about work.

2008-12-18 15:09:09
423.   Ken Noe
I just figured out what annoys me about Atlanta's overreaction. It's the notion that the deal was between them and the agents, and that Furcal in the end didn't have a right to say "no, I don't want to sign this."

414 Keith Olbermann would be horrified to hear you describe Bob of Bob & Ray as "Chris Elliot's dad." Just saying, in case he lurks here looking for material.

2008-12-18 15:10:14
424.   fanerman
422 Oh yeah, some people have actually seen me in person. There goes that ruse.
2008-12-18 15:10:31
425.   fanerman
424 Or is it just my publicist that they've seen?
2008-12-18 15:12:44
426.   Kevin Lewis

That is a great idea...or maybe a guide of terms

2008-12-18 15:13:41
427.   bhsportsguy

1. How do you:
(a) bold;
(b) 416 a previous post;
(c) underline

2. What does _____ mean:
(a) LAT;
(b) JtD;
(c) Minotaur;
(d) 3.5;

2008-12-18 15:14:59
428.   underdog
423 Heh, I thought about that, was just being deliberately obscure but then I realized a lot of young 'uns probably don't know who he is, alas.

I remember him on Chris Elliot's Get a Life sitcom, too.

2008-12-18 15:15:42
429.   bhsportsguy
427 It should be what does "LATed" mean.

Without any evidence, I would guess that is the question that is asked the most.

2008-12-18 15:18:29
430.   fanerman
We can just make a Dodger Thoughts wiki somewhere so we can add to it as we please.

Also, "Why is Juan Pierre a bad baseball player?"

2008-12-18 15:18:40
431.   Marty
You could add
3. Is it Kuo or Guo

but I don't recommend it.

2008-12-18 15:23:08
432.   Kevin Lewis

Marty, always trying to be edgy

2008-12-18 15:26:38
433.   bhsportsguy
426 I believe Jon likes the way the DT community generally answers these questions very quickly when they appear.
2008-12-18 15:39:44
434.   bferb
Posted on MLBTR:

Today Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe wrote: "The New York Daily News has already reported the Yankees have a three-year, $66 million offer out to Manny."

2008-12-18 15:40:15
435.   Eric Enders
433 At least it would spare everyone from having to read the Hochevar/Kershaw cause and effect story ever again.
2008-12-18 15:40:55
436.   trainwreck
I am shaking my fist at them in anger.
2008-12-18 15:41:10
437.   fanerman
434 Wow. Yankees got cash to burn.
2008-12-18 15:41:20
438.   arborial
My RSS feed is showing an article on PE (Diamond Leung) saying that Andruw missed the last two games in the DWL due to a blistered hand. The link to the article is broken, does anyone else have info on this?
2008-12-18 15:42:02
439.   Eric Enders
422 Journey? What, did Tony Jackson do that list?
2008-12-18 15:42:15
440.   trainwreck
Unless you want to trade Mike Cameron to them.
2008-12-18 15:43:33
441.   tjdub
438 The steam rising from buffet trays can be very hot
2008-12-18 15:47:00
442.   cargill06
434 If they want to offer that, let them have him and it's time to move on. He's not worth anything more than that.
2008-12-18 15:47:13
443.   Eric Stephen
I love that song, but it in no way is a baseball song.

At least "Glory Days" mentions his baseball playing friend.

2008-12-18 15:48:09
444.   Eric Stephen
434 ,442
I wonder if the Yankees sent a terms sheet yet.
2008-12-18 15:53:12
445.   bhsportsguy
434 Not all NY papers believe that.

2008-12-18 15:53:34
446.   bferb
440 I think we should offer them Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsley for Robinson Cano
2008-12-18 15:54:21
447.   Kevin Lewis
I think we should at least offer 3/70 and see what happens
2008-12-18 16:02:37
448.   trainwreck
Texas's best women's volleyball player has an unfortunate name.
2008-12-18 16:05:23
449.   oshea2002
Apparently the Red Sox are closing in on 8 and 184 for Teixeria, and there are rumors the Angels have upped their offer to 8 and 200.

2008-12-18 16:12:24
450.   underdog
I wonder where Derek Lowe ends up. I have a bad feeling it'll be to one of those teams signing a bigger ticket Type A and the Dodgers will get a crummier draft pick. Ah well. But then if we lose Manny, there's always that.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-12-18 16:14:04
451.   underdog
Btw, the Yankees bid on Manny story is totally unsubstantiated at this point. And this afternoon there was this, posted on MLBTR:

On Wednesday, Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News relayed thoughts from a baseball official who believed the Yankees are willing to give Manny Ramirez a three-year deal worth $22-25MM per. So this is a likely non-Yankees baseball person giving an opinion. Feinsand added that two other officials were skeptical that the Yankees would offer three years.

2008-12-18 16:14:43
452.   underdog
Plus, what BH said in 445.
2008-12-18 16:15:09
453.   trainwreck
Sign with the Angels, Teixeira!
2008-12-18 16:16:37
454.   Eric Stephen
Wow. Clearly the funniest Google search result of my day.
2008-12-18 16:16:48
455.   bferb
450 Probably the Yanks or Mets which hurts us either way
2008-12-18 16:21:38
456.   Lexinthedena
454 It must be her....sorry for not tiny'ing it...kind of a spoiler...

2008-12-18 16:22:58
457.   Eric Enders
I'm guessing I'm the only one who didn't have to Google the name.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. What were the parents thinking?

2008-12-18 16:23:46
458.   I Love LA
Fantasy fball question-

Should I start Dominic Rhodes tonight? Or should I risk start g Frank Gore this Sunday? Addai is 50-50 so Rhodes might have a good game but Gore might sit out again. What to do? I'm running out of time.

2008-12-18 16:26:12
459.   CanuckDodger
Who is ranked higher in the Elias rankings, Sabathia or Ramirez? Anybody know?
2008-12-18 16:27:20
460.   Jacob Burch
458 That's tough. Rhodes is starting, but Indy can't really run block that well (sad admission). If Gore is good to go, he's going against the lol-Rams.

I'd probably let my bias dictate my play and go with Rhodes, but it's a difficult call.

2008-12-18 16:27:59
461.   Jacob Burch
459 CC.
2008-12-18 16:31:17
462.   Lexinthedena
458 IF Gore is for sure starting, go with him, but Rhodes seems to be guaranteed a lot of touches, plus Indy should get a big lead early, though the Jags always seem to play Indy tough.

So Gore if he's healthy, Rhodes if he's not.

2008-12-18 16:31:19
463.   I Love LA
460 - thanks, are you a Colts fan? I started Rhodes over Gore last week and it paid off big time. But Gore has a great matchup but he is 50-50. Rhodes might do well but if addai plays he might not. This is the championship and I'm faced with the toughest decision yet.
2008-12-18 16:31:35
464.   Harold M Johnson
458 If you start Rhodes, you're guaranteed at least some points. If Gore doesn't play, you get nothing. It seems like playing it safe might be the way to go.
2008-12-18 16:32:11
465.   LoneStar7
Any T.V. recommendations for tonight?

No Bruins, No Kings, No Lakers, and I don't get NFL network..

2008-12-18 16:32:37
466.   I Love LA
462 - lol the problem gore plays Sunday and Rhodes go tonight.
2008-12-18 16:33:51
467.   Benjamin Miracord
457 What were the parents thinking?

Maybe they were thinking, "Well, at least it's not Adolf Hitler Campbell."

2008-12-18 16:33:54
468.   I Love LA
I'm gonna kill myself if Gore has a field day.
2008-12-18 16:34:02
469.   Eric Stephen
Canuck, here is the link to all the Elias numbers:

2008-12-18 16:34:09
470.   trainwreck
Be prepared for many people suggesting shows on NBC.
2008-12-18 16:35:57
471.   Eric Stephen
Million Dollar Password is on CBS at 8pm!
2008-12-18 16:37:48
472.   oshea2002
I'd stick with Gore and pick up DeShaun Foster too and just start one of them. I have Rhodes and Foster, and I'm gonna skip on Rhodes tonight, and start LT and either Jamal Lewis or DeShaun Foster if Gore is out.
2008-12-18 16:37:52
473.   Jacob Burch
463 Colts fan through and through. Gore could have a big day and make you feel bad, but I think the safe choice is the best one--depending how the rest of your match up plays out. If there's no way you think you can win unless Gore has a monster, go with that, but usually on early games I'll take the points I know I can get.
2008-12-18 16:40:54
474.   trainwreck
Rhodes has been a solid fantasy pick for awhile now.
2008-12-18 16:41:18
475.   Jacob Burch
I'm sick but have gone to work--Law & Order reruns have been the evening equivalent to Price is Right when I was a kid. For the first time in what certainly is all of eternity, there appear to be no L&O reruns on any network, in any of its flavors. Not even Criminal Intent!

I also am on Time Warner and cannot watch the Colts play. This is a sad, sad situation.

2008-12-18 16:42:37
476.   I Love LA
My opponent has David garrad, Reggie Wayne, maurice jones drew going for him tonight. I might be in a big hole by tomorrow morning.
2008-12-18 16:43:25
477.   trainwreck
I am actually watching a good marquee game.

Sharks vs Red Wings.

2008-12-18 16:44:26
478.   Jacob Burch
477 They show Hockey on TV? Go figure.
2008-12-18 16:51:42
479.   LoneStar7
477 that on vs.?
2008-12-18 16:53:07
480.   underdog
471 If they're not going to begin the thawing of Bert Convy for that, then I pass.
2008-12-18 16:54:20
481.   trainwreck
Naw, local channel here in Bay Area.
2008-12-18 17:00:18
482.   bhsportsguy
480 Actually that would be Allen Ludden. And Betty White, except I believe she is still alive.

2008-12-18 17:03:49
483.   bhsportsguy
481 Wow, hockey on a local channel, I thinkt the Ducks appear once in a while down here but I could be wrong.
2008-12-18 17:03:58
484.   underdog
482 -But Convy hosted SuperPassword, the one I was more familiar with as a lad.


I hate those "game time decisions" in fantasy football,especially when there's an earlier game (like, Thursday). I'd do what others advised, start Rhodes. Gore may very well not play. Now I hope Peyton Manning goes off, for my team.

2008-12-18 17:07:00
485.   trainwreck
Well, Comcast Bay Area.
2008-12-18 17:16:17
486.   MC Safety
485 Trainwreck, have you seen any wicked sideshows in person?

My friend showed me that video of Bub Rub running from the police, and I couldn't stop laughing. He was telling me some crazy stories about the Bay.

2008-12-18 17:17:31
487.   MollyKnight
I love Betty White.
2008-12-18 17:20:46
488.   bhsportsguy
487 Get Pirate back from under the bed, Boras is meeting with the Red Sox tonight.

Olney, Crasnick, Nelson will be camping outside your door awaiting how many woofs are uttered.

2008-12-18 17:22:11
489.   Bob Timmermann
I hear that the College of Cardinals is going to borrow Pirate the next time they have to choose a Pope.
2008-12-18 17:24:08
490.   68elcamino427
Boras is to Kinzer


Texeria is to Furcal?

2008-12-18 17:25:51
491.   bhsportsguy
Gammons on yesterday's Mason and Ireland radio show said the Giants got worst after the Renteria signing.
2008-12-18 17:26:25
492.   Marty
Fair Hooker is the best football player to come out of Monrovia High.
2008-12-18 17:26:42
493.   bhsportsguy
489 That is after he chooses the next coach for Notre Dame football and Arizona basketball.
2008-12-18 17:27:28
494.   bhsportsguy
492 Marty, when are you going to be in Vegas?
2008-12-18 17:29:55
495.   trainwreck
Not really. I saw a small one in Oakland Coliseum parking lot.
2008-12-18 17:30:37
496.   Eric Enders
How many other DTers have pets named after NL rivals? Molly has Pirate. I am sitting next to a beagle named Rocky.

I used to have a cocker spaniel named Dodger. God bless him, he was the stupidest dog I've ever known.

2008-12-18 17:37:10
497.   Ken Arneson
497 My old boss has a dog named "Zito".
2008-12-18 17:38:58
498.   Eric Stephen
Based on the previews, I believe Betty White is on tonight's episode!

Bert Convy has a spot on whatever the opposite of an obelisk is for me. I celebrate his entire catalog.

2008-12-18 17:42:45
499.   trainwreck
Well, so much for the marquee matchup between Sharks and Red Wings.
2008-12-18 17:52:36
500.   Marty
494 I'll be there Friday and Saturday after Christmas.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-12-18 17:55:35
501.   Marty
There's probably plenty of Astros, but that's because of the Jetsons.
2008-12-18 18:04:52
502.   dzzrtRatt
Our dog is named Potter -- George Bailey's rival.
2008-12-18 18:07:46
503.   Tripon
I'll believe it when I see, regarding the Braves not dealing with Paul Kizner or Arm Tellem. More likely, a regime change from Wren to somebody else will negate the freeze.
2008-12-18 18:13:59
504.   68elcamino427
Our dog's name is Rusty - because he has rusty red fur.

Le Gran Orange - remember him?

2008-12-18 18:15:54
505.   underdog
Tony Jackson rec'd a statement from agent Arn Tellem (tell 'em? Tell 'em nothing!) disputing some of the Braves' story:

>>With regard to the negotiations between the Atlanta Braves and Rafael Furcal, the essential facts are clear and cannot be disputed.

1. There was never an agreement reached between Rafael Furcal and the Atlanta Braves.

2. In fact, the Braves were fully aware that Furcal was not prepared to make a decision but had requested an opportunity to sleep on it, before deciding. <<

Read the rest:

2008-12-18 18:16:22
506.   Marty
Mine are Sam and Frannie.
2008-12-18 18:19:35
507.   bhsportsguy
502 Of course, there is a more famous Potter now.
2008-12-18 18:21:02
508.   fanerman
Sounds like Raffy sure got a lot of sleep in the past couple weeks.
2008-12-18 18:23:41
509.   dzzrtRatt
From reading Tellem's response, you get the feeling that the step of faxing the agent a signed offer sheet might cross some informal, fuzzy line between negotiation and agreement. If Kizner said, however, that Furcal wanted to "sleep on it," that's a pretty clear indication that negotiating is not finished and that no formal or informal line had been crossed.

Here's the test. Would Scheurholz have lodged the same ethical objection if, instead of signing with the Dodgers, Kizner had come back to him the next day and merely asked for a change in the terms described on the offer sheet? I doubt it.

I have to say, the idea that anyone should be outraged that agents share information about other offers from other teams seems far-fetched. The owners all like to say "I won't participate in an auction," but they all do.

Also, I doubt this was the first time the Braves had been told Furcal preferred to play shortstop. If he could only get a three-year offer to play shortstop, he would take a four-year offer to play second base. But if he got a four-year offer to play shortstop, that would trump all.

It's like Boras vs. Colletti re: Drew. Colletti's outrage was over being misled by some informal comments by Drew and Boras, some of them in the press. The fact is, legally, Colletti should've realized he had nothing to hold Drew, and if he wanted to keep him, should've been out front with an offer.

2008-12-18 18:25:22
510.   fanerman
My dog's name is TJ.
2008-12-18 18:27:16
511.   das411
GO CARDINAL!!! Congrats to the Stanford Womens Volleyball team for an outstanding comeback, and good luck at being the runners-up for the NCAA Championship ;)
2008-12-18 18:27:38
512.   Tripon

Arm Tellem dares the Braves to ignore his Free Agents, and oh, its illegal by baseball bylaws to exclusively ignore his clients.

2008-12-18 18:33:00
513.   dzzrtRatt
507 There's also a Mrs. Potter in a Counting Crows song. My wife loves them.

One of the pleasures of the Christmas season for me is watching Lionel Barrymore bellow "Merry Christmas -- IN JAIL!!" to Jimmy Stewart.

"You used to be so cocky. You were going to go out and conquer the world. You once called me "a warped, frustrated, old man!" What are you but a warped, frustrated young man?"

I love Mr. Potter. They don't make villains like him anymore.

2008-12-18 18:37:43
514.   underdog
RIP, Dave Smith.

Former Astro All-Star closer who holds the Houston record for games pitched. He was only 53; they think it's a heart attack.


In happier news, can't wait to go out and play soccer tonight. Except for the fact that it will be freezing. And a bit wet. I'll be popping echinacea and vitamin C into my water.

2008-12-18 18:46:47
515.   berkowit28
423 505 (Furcal agents/Braves)

Earlier, the Braves GM Frank Wren asserted that Kinzer, the Furcal agent he was dealing with, did say that Furcal was sleeping on it, and he would need to get confirmation. They then spoke a second time, and Kinzer repeated that he still hadn't spoken with Furcal to get the confirmation. Then, according to Wren, he woke up in the morning to find a phone message from Kinzer that he had received the confirmation and that the Braves should fax the term sheet over.

I'm going to guess, when we get to the bottom of this, that Kinzer never actually said in exactly so many words that Furcal had confirmed, but rather that the GM assumed from the request for the term sheet that Furcal must have confirmed (otherwise why request the term sheet). I'm going to guess that Kinzer was jumping the gun in asking for the term sheet, which by convention he shouldn't have until he got Furcal's confirmation, because he didn't want to lose the deal or appear inconsiderate to the Braves.

Unless Wren produces a recording of that phone message, we'll never know whether Kinzer actually said that Furcal had confirmed or not. In any case, Kinzer shouldn't have asked for the term sheet, which implied it; but if that's all it was, it's really not quite the same thing as lying.

I'm not surprised to read that the crucial issue for Furcal was not having to switch from SS to 2nd base, once the Dodgers matched the salary and guaranteed years offer. That's obviously a huge issue, and the Braves shouldn't be surprised. What's actually a bit more surprising, if it wasn't a bluff all along, was that Furcal was prepared to switch to 2nd base to get that third-year guarantee. Well, maybe not.

2008-12-18 18:56:52
516.   berkowit28
From (Braves MLB site):

"I went to bed feeling we were in good shape," said Wren, who awoke on Tuesday morning to find a voice-mail message from Kinzer, who had since talked to Furcal.

Within this message, Wren remembers Kinzer saying, "I talked to Raffy. We're good with everything. Go ahead and send over a term sheet."

'...remembers Kinzer saying...' Hmmm.

2008-12-18 18:58:13
517.   tjshere
510 Thank you, I appreciate that.
2008-12-18 19:09:23
518.   Gen3Blue
515 I wouldn't be at all surprised if Raff agreed to play second to get a third year guaranteed. Any agent should have this tool in his chest to play teams against each other. I find it interesting the Braves should seem to feel some discomfort over losing this contest when they already have a decent SS. Unfortunately I am more inclined to think it was a ploy to get Furc. more years in LA. There, I'm I paranoid or what.
2008-12-18 19:09:32
519.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know if this was discussed earlier in the day but G/Kuo received the TYIB Setup Man Award.
2008-12-18 19:11:25
520.   Tripon

- Carlos Boozer's opting out, perhaps not realizing that teams are going to save their money for 2010, and not spending in 2009.

- Boozer already stabbed a blind man in the back.

2008-12-18 19:13:15
521.   Bluebleeder87
Well, Ned was mad too when Drew left the Dodgers, I'm thinking the Braves GM probably feels the same way.
2008-12-18 19:15:05
522.   68elcamino427
think it was a ploy

Kinzer did a good job of creating demand for his client - where Dodgers interest appeared to be lukewarm at best.
In the end - Furcal has another 3 year guaranteed contract from the Dodgers.

Just waiting for the Boras fun with Texeria - Boston - Yankees - Angels.

2008-12-18 19:15:57
523.   berkowit28
LA Times article on Teixara "close" to accepting offer from the Red Sox says:

"There is a chance the Angels could pursue free-agent slugger Manny Ramirez, who led the Dodgers to the National League championship series in October after a July 31 trade from Boston.

But the Angels would not offer Ramirez, 36, anything more than a two-year contract, and it's doubtful they would match the two-year, $45-million offer the Dodgers extended to Ramirez in November."

Just opinion (DiGiovanna, LAT's Angels beat reporter), but perhaps informed opinion.

2008-12-18 19:18:06
524.   trainwreck
He definitely did not see it coming.
2008-12-18 19:18:10
525.   LAT
502. Is he Hairy?
2008-12-18 19:20:36
526.   Gen3Blue
521 I want to feel that way about the Brave's feelings. But this is the organization that recently gave away Adam LaRoche and others to cut payroll. I find it really hard to believe Furcals agent and some old friend in the Brave's Org. didn't work together to tweak Coletti. I just can't muster much sympathy for the Braves either way.
2008-12-18 19:26:30
527.   Tripon

No hometown discount for the Nats. In fact, they have to pay extra for Tex's services.

2008-12-18 19:29:22
528.   Tripon

Ibanez argues against Defensive metrics.

2008-12-18 19:31:31
529.   Tripon

A photo of Arm Tellem, and Paul Kizner to put faces to the names.

2008-12-18 19:34:07
530.   trainwreck
The guy on the left is one of the Wassermans. Can't remember his name, but he is a big UCLA booster.
2008-12-18 19:37:23
531.   Tripon
530 Isn't Wasserman always trying to figure out how to bring back a NFL team?
2008-12-18 19:37:55
532.   Gen3Blue
522 I can't wait to see what happens if Texeira (and I don't have time to figure out the spelling controversy here) goes first, but it is obvious that the many "years" for Manny haven't come in yet, and as usual it will be hilarious to watch Boras thrash around, and as usual it will be tragic to see the final result, as some org. and/or Manny go down a tragic path.(A-rod and Hochevar are recent examples, perhaps not tragic, but amusing none-the-less>
2008-12-18 19:39:05
533.   trainwreck
I do not know. I do not think he is in the main group that seems to have the most advanced proposal.
2008-12-18 19:40:12
534.   Harold M Johnson
I wonder if that guy upthread ended up starting Dominic Rhodes? Looks like he's got a TD and close to 100 total yards.

Sounds like a pretty decent game. Pity TW and the NFL can't work something out.

2008-12-18 19:41:38
535.   trainwreck
DeWayne Walker, your new defensive coordinator for LSU.

LSU become a recruiting presence in California is terrible news.

2008-12-18 19:45:06
536.   trainwreck
2008-12-18 19:46:59
537.   Tripon
USC just has to be a player in Louisiana then! Er, good luck UCLA though.
2008-12-18 19:47:26
538.   dzzrtRatt
531 I know he was proposing a football stadium near Staples, for about two days, til the LA politicos did yet another hymn for the Coliseum.

I believe Casey Wasserman owns the LA Avengers of the Arena Football League.

His grand-dad was Lew Wasserman, who was quite an agent himself, as well as an entertainment exec. Ronald Reagan was a client.

2008-12-18 19:47:48
539.   Tripon
ESPN really loves Tyler Hansbourgh. I just don't see it, he's not a great basketball player.
2008-12-18 19:55:20
540.   trainwreck
It is far worse when you have to hear him talk.
2008-12-18 20:01:18
541.   Tripon

Red Sox and Boras are in final negotiations to sign Tex. They better make sure the contract is signed in blood.

2008-12-18 20:07:46
542.   trainwreck
Come on, Angels. Pull off something! Call Christopher Lloyd.
2008-12-18 20:08:23
543.   Bluebleeder87
So I guess Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers is becoming less & less...
2008-12-18 20:09:11
544.   Alex41592
Red Sox will NOT be a factor for Mark Teixeira.

2008-12-18 20:10:23
545.   fanerman
So, ideally, Angels get Tex and we'll have a chance at Manny?
2008-12-18 20:10:26
546.   Jacob Burch
2008-12-18 20:15:10
547.   berkowit28
544 ...calling Boras' bluff. Good for them. I was just reading how Boras lied to the Red Sox in 2005, claiming that the Yankees had offered $65 mil/5 years for Damon, trumping the Sox's $40 mil/4 years, so the Sox withdrew. Then it turned out that the Yankess deal was also for 4 years, not 5 ($52 mil). He could be doing the same thing again.

2008-12-18 20:16:47
548.   trainwreck
2008-12-18 20:19:28
549.   berkowit28
Cricket test match (5 days) between India and England beginning in 2 minutes. Live text updates on BBC Sports. (Yeah, I know no one else is interested.)
2008-12-18 20:19:40
550.   oshea2002
535 - done deal? I've heard rumors but nothing solid.

Also, I'm willing to complete this Presley for Hasiak trade, we just need Hasiak on board.

Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-12-18 20:21:52
551.   trainwreck
Various reports in Louisiana media and some people who have ties to program are saying they have heard it is true.

It was a Byron Moore for Morrel Presley trade.: )

2008-12-18 20:23:15
552.   Gen3Blue
541 , 545 When the Tex drops, presumably the Manny drops into a slot. And it seems to be a very similar deal to the Dodgers two year job. But Boras will try to hype it into something far better. As George Bush recently said, he avoided just being a popular guy! Boras and Manny will not have to make this disclaimer. Sorry if I couldn't resist a possible rule 5 problem.
2008-12-18 20:23:56
553.   Tripon
551 LSU better make sure its term sheet wasn't shopped to UCLA. =P
2008-12-18 20:24:18
554.   oshea2002
551 - True, true. I'll counter that Moore always wanted to go to SC, he doesn't count. But fair enough.

I guess with Hasiak, we should steer him to Cal or UW, that would even the score for Donovan Warren.

You think RN makes a run at Norton or tries to bring Rocky Long back?

2008-12-18 20:25:50
555.   trainwreck
Well, from what I have heard, Presley grew up a UCLA fan and always wanted to go just KD never recruited him.
2008-12-18 20:26:15
556.   trainwreck
Rick will go after Norton and Hauck, the head coach at Montana.
2008-12-18 20:26:39
557.   trainwreck
Give me Norton for sure. I want people that can recruit.
2008-12-18 20:30:36
558.   oshea2002
557 - I love KN, but who knows if he can coach? It be a real dice roll. I don't want to lose him, but I'd be in panic mode if we had just lost Rocky Seto as well.

True about Presley, he also has family ties to UCLA. Another genius move by Dorrell. Obviously with the timing of the whole deal, this had been in the works for months. Pretty much all is fair in recruiting though I guess.

2008-12-18 20:32:48
559.   trainwreck
One theory, that I agree with, was that Presley waited last second so then he would not face the Carrol onslaught.

Not sure if you heard the Brian Price story, but something like that.

2008-12-18 20:32:48
560.   Black and Blue
549 West Indies vs New Zealand nearing the end of day one right now, and Australia vs South Africa beginning day two as well.
2008-12-18 20:35:53
561.   oshea2002
559 - after seeing Price play for 2 years, he deserved the limo treatment.

I think it's more of trying to make SC / Carroll look bad (ie - wait for the in homme and official, and decommit anyway) then simply avoiding the onslaught, but it's all of the above probably. Also, it helped his stock to be an SC commit this whole time, mainly b/c his dad had some issues with Rivals at an All star game whereas they really downgraded him for some alleged attitude problem that his dad said was a misunderstanding. I'm not really sure what happened.

2008-12-18 20:38:14
562.   trainwreck
Not the limo thing itself, but basically they started just demeaning his character like crazy in his house and his mom kicked them out.

I do think Eric Scott did dirty things to build relationships with players.

2008-12-18 20:42:09
563.   trainwreck
USC pretty much has free reign to do what they want though.
2008-12-18 20:43:25
564.   Tripon

Angels re-signing Juan Rivera, thinking that Tex is going to sign elsewhere.

There goes the Angels interest in Manny!

2008-12-18 20:45:25
565.   trainwreck
Hopefully, hopefully.
2008-12-18 20:45:50
566.   bablue
I'm completely shocked that the Red Sox are out of the Teixiera bidding after it seemed inevitable they were going to sign him with all the news reported today. If the Angels get him, thats one less suitor for Manny. Same with the Nats, but I doubt they'd pursue Manny seriously anyways.

Also, the Angels are close to signing Juan Rivera to a 3 year deal, according to MLBTR. Not sure how much that helps us with Manny, but its another OF'er with a multiyear deal for them (and Vlad needs to DH sometimes), so it can't hurt.

2008-12-18 20:46:14
567.   Indiana Jon
After talking to some of you here yesterday, and spending hours researching online, I have decided to buy a MacBook Pro. Does anyone have an opinion on the newest model vs. the earlier 2008 model? The older model in the slightly upgraded configuration can be had right now for about 500 less than the lowest model of the new ones. I'm thinking go with the slightly older model unless there's a good reason not to.
2008-12-18 20:47:05
568.   bablue
Arrgh, beaten by 2 minutes!!
2008-12-18 20:48:42
569.   Tripon
566 I think Juan Rivera played LF mostly for the Angels.

568 hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

2008-12-18 20:49:07
570.   PDH5204
Re Furcal and the Braves, I believe that the applicable Statute of Frauds would require Raffy or his duly authorized agent to have signed the instrument for any alleged agreement or contract to be enforceable by the Braves. The relevant Georgia Statute of Frauds, in pertinent part:

"13-5-30 - To make the following obligations binding on the promisor, the promise must be in writing and signed by the party to be charged therewith or some person lawfully authorized by him:
(5) Any agreement that is not to be performed within one year from the making thereof;"

And from California:

"Cal. Civ. Code 1624

The following contracts are invalid, unless they, or some note or memorandum thereof, are in writing and subscribed by the party to be charged or by the party's agent:

(a) An agreement that by its terms is not to be performed within a year from the making thereof."

Then there's Articles III [uniform player contract] and IV [negotiation and approval of contracts] of the relevant collective bargaining agreement.

All of that being said, no one, repeat, no one, rely on the Statute of Frauds without first getting advice from a licensed [and otherwise competent] attorney in your local jurisdiction. I say this because the Statute(s) of Frauds have taken a hit, what with the feds having enacted what I will call the eSign Act, covering the "electronic signature". And by "electronic signature", I am not talking about your name signed electronically, but thinks like you clicking the "OK" or "I Accept" box on the computer screen [hitting either box/button likely counts as your eSig]. The eSign Act does not appear to apply in Raffy's circumstance, since although the definition of "transaction" in the Act is broad, it does not appear to cover contracts for personal services such as that involved here.

2008-12-18 20:49:25
571.   Bob Timmermann
The Griddle comes to you live from a MacBook Pro.

The two of us have bonded.

2008-12-18 20:52:38
572.   Gen3Blue
No eastern team is likely to sign Manny period. So if the western teams wan't to be fools in the view of most baseball fans, what is Manny worth. He might be easy to get--but who knows.
2008-12-18 20:58:43
573.   bablue
You are so selfish... ;)

Why no eastern team?

And to anyone, how do you make the blue links to past posts? Somehow I have never learned...

2008-12-18 20:59:09
574.   scareduck
571 - birds of a feather! At least part time. (My box at home is a Dell Dimension running Fedora Core <one release back of current>.)
2008-12-18 20:59:29
575.   trainwreck
Put [ ] around the number.
2008-12-18 20:59:46
576.   fanerman
573 Surround the numbers in brackets. Like [ 573 ] . Except without the spaces.
2008-12-18 21:00:27
577.   scareduck
573 - use square brackets around the number, viz. b;573d;.
2008-12-18 21:01:01
578.   scareduck
577 - er, more like 576 .
2008-12-18 21:01:16
579.   bablue

Ah, how logical. No wonder I never thought of it!

2008-12-18 21:06:38
580.   berkowit28
570 Of course, a verbal assurance on voice mail is not enforceable. The question is whether other GMs will go on dealing with Kinzer as they did before or whether his credibility is now always in doubt. Who can make a deal with him if his word means nothing? Well, that doesn't seem to have stopped Boras, so it probably won't hinder Kinzer either, if he has players teams want. Maybe GMs will ask for everything in writing.
2008-12-18 21:07:34
581.   berkowit28
577 How'd you do that (whatever it is)?
2008-12-18 21:09:10
582.   Tripon
580 Sure they will. They're just going to make everything is crossed. And a deal isn't a deal until its a deal.

Its not like the Mets are suddenly regretting they signed K-Rod.

2008-12-18 21:13:32
583.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Deep Throat, aka Mark Felt.
2008-12-18 21:20:32
584.   Indiana Jon
No regrets? I want to give it a try, but I am a bit nervous.
2008-12-18 21:23:57
585.   Bluebleeder87
581 577

yeah ScareDuck, give us the scoop.

2008-12-18 21:26:25
586.   LAT
566. I have it on pretty good authority that the Nats have no interest in Manny.
2008-12-18 21:30:53
587.   Bob Timmermann

I've had a few. But I've not that the number of them reached a point where it was worthy of mention.

2008-12-18 21:32:41
588.   kinbote
498 I'd probably call the opposite of an obelisk a pedestal.
2008-12-18 21:33:43
589.   Eric Stephen
Here's a photo of Kinzer:

2008-12-18 21:36:29
590.   trainwreck
Wasn't he the head vampire in the Lost Boys?
: )
2008-12-18 21:38:18
591.   trainwreck
To my fellow Raider fans:

Did you guys hear the rumor we are going to franchise Lechler instead of Nnamdi?

2008-12-18 21:40:08
592.   bablue
Well thats good news. If Tex signs with the Angels, then that only really leaves the Yankees as suitors, I guess. If the Yankees get Tex, that only really leaves the Angels, and they just signed Juan Rivera. I can't help but feel optimistic at this point.
2008-12-18 21:41:25
593.   Eric Stephen
Nothing surprises me at this point. You know, Matt Millen played for the Raiders, so maybe Big Al can hire him as GM.
2008-12-18 21:41:55
594.   bablue
Cowboys fan not a Raiders fan, but that sounds too absurd for even Al Davis to consider. That would have to be the worst personnel move all-time, just because its so obvious how stupid it is.
2008-12-18 21:46:40
595.   kinbote
Boras is obviously going to prod the Yankees as much as he can to go after Manny. They really might be the only team legitimately in the running besides us. I don't really see an opening for him in NY unless a trade is made. They have Swisher, Damon, Cabrera, Nady, & Matsui for 1B, OF, & DH. Hmmm.
2008-12-18 21:46:52
596.   PDH5204
Don't know if this was posted on DT already, but if so, my apology for the repost:

2008-12-18 21:54:59
597.   trainwreck
We did draft a kicker with the 17th overall pick.
2008-12-18 21:56:23
598.   Tripon
593 Matt Millen would coach the Raiders. Al Davis don't hire GMs. Al Davis makes the player personal decisions.
2008-12-18 21:58:47
599.   caseybarker
Al Davis is a stupid, cheap man.
2008-12-18 21:59:58
600.   oshea2002
591 - what????????????????????
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2008-12-18 22:01:47
601.   I Love LA
594 - sup fellow Cowboys fan

591 - wow no way that is true.

2008-12-18 22:06:22
602.   LAbits
567 I love my MacBook Pro - older. The new ones are nicer, but if you get the - older one, make sure you get the one that has 4Gb RAM capability. I end up with 12-15 programs open and working some days. Memory is good and you don't want a 3Gb cap. As we say in SoCal, you can never be too rich, too thin or have to much RAM. BTW, happily used the following O/S today at work: Solaris 9, Centos 4 & 5, Windows XP, Vista & 2003 server & MacOSX 10.5. The latter is my weapon of choice.

570 Dude, you're a lawyer and a doctor? I'm not worthy.

Oh, and go Dodgers. Scully is back for 2k9? 'nuf said!

2008-12-18 22:08:47
603.   trainwreck
Can't find link now. Saw it on a Raider board.

*Raiders | Team likely to tag Lechler
Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:35:54 -0800*

The Oakland Raiders are likely to use the franchise or transition tag on P Shane Lechler this offseason. Lechler is eligible to become a free agent this offseason.

2008-12-18 22:12:17
604.   Tripon
What the hell do punters make in the NFL? It came be more than a million.
2008-12-18 22:14:09
605.   trainwreck
Lechler makes a million a year.
2008-12-18 22:15:30
606.   Tripon
605 Just imagine how much he'll make once franchised? A million, and two dollars?!?!
2008-12-18 22:17:45
607.   PDH5204
602 Not a doctor. Think lawyer with special knowledge, as in, well, if you can't make sport of yourself, then just who can you make sport of, and so, think ambulance chaser [combines the legal knowledge with the medical knowledge necessary to litigate/resolve the personal injury matter].

Oh, and who says you're not worthy? It wasn't so long ago that I spent some time on the one fantasy baseball message board trying to convince the one soul that USPS mail-sorting him was indeed performing a valuable service as our system would crash to the ground without humans slotting the mail. So never think yourself unworthy [and I know you weren't serious, but still].

2008-12-18 23:37:23
608.   bablue
Hey. I can't tell you how excited I am for this game on Saturday. I thought I was gonna have to miss it but found out tonight I will be able to see it. Its absolutely HUGE for us to win if we want to make the playoffs. Man I'm excited!!!

Maybe they are thinking they will lock Nhamdi up to a contract extension before then so they won't need the tag for him. That's the only sane thing I can think of.

2008-12-18 23:42:03
609.   underdog
Is Seven Pounds the sequel to 21 Grams?
2008-12-18 23:43:08
610.   trainwreck
The plot to every Will Smith movie:

I am flawed, but I have seen my ways and now I am the greatest person alive.

2008-12-18 23:45:05
611.   underdog
610 - Hah. Pretty much. At least in this one he doesn't have superhero powers. I'll wait for cable.
2008-12-18 23:46:06
612.   trainwreck
*error in my ways...

Lousy broken keypad.

2008-12-18 23:52:01
613.   underdog
I knew what you meant. Sounds like the movie goes all M. Night Shyamalan in its reliance on a plot twist.

Time to limp off to bed. May everyone have pleasant hot stove dreams.

2008-12-18 23:55:46
614.   bablue
613 We will have Manny of them.
2008-12-19 00:08:03
615.   trainwreck
To the IMDB boards!
2008-12-19 00:19:06
616.   PDH5204
580 Go back to your 515 . Consider the Statute of Frauds again. Is there a reason or two why Furcal wants the signed offer sheet from the Braves? Think: (a) if the Braves sign the thing, they are bound and (b) if Ned has any doubts about the Braves' offer, Raffy's agent(s) can offer to fax the Braves' signed offer to Ned. There's two of our reasons. Both of those reasons rule out the "implication" that asking for a signed offer means "acceptance" or whatever we want to call it. As regards the "we're good", it's either lucky coincidence or the man's a genius, since Raffy's not good until his or his agent's signature is affixed to the offer sheet. And that's the law, and so by definition, the statement cannot be misleading as it cannot be true [again, only true when Raffy signs something, then he's good, or down for it, as some would say]. And I wonder who the Braves' legal advisor is. Or going back to our two reasons, he and/or his agent meet with us, and he either signs within five minutes of us or the offer is withdrawn and doesn't leave the room, at least not in its written form [no reason that I can see why we want to give the Dodgers reason to up the ante, and since he won't be bound until he signs.].

Re the word is my bond, well, maybe not what we want as policy. If you truly consider the Statute of Frauds you'll see that it protects against more than fraud. You orally offer and I verbally accept. And so call the Statute of Frauds also the Second Chance Rule, since until I sign a writing to be charged against me, I can always change my mind. So if we don't want humans to overreach and then regret, maybe we have as policy the Second Chance Rule aka the Statute of Frauds.

2008-12-19 00:19:14
617.   Tripon
613 Considering that I don't care to watch 7 pounds, and already spoiled the plot to myself. I'll just say that Law & Order: Criminal Intent already did this plot.
2008-12-19 00:30:40
618.   thinkblue88
No discussion on the new fangraphs article about broxton?

"Using Expected Fielding Independent ERA (XFIP) from The Hardball Times, we find that Broxton's '08 performance (2.91) fit right in with his 2006 (3.33) and 2007 (2.75) showings."

2008-12-19 07:36:20
619.   scareduck
585 - &#5b; &#5d;. Normally hexadecimal entities work, but apparently the Toaster coughs them right up.
2008-12-19 07:40:16
620.   scareduck
616 - this has been an interesting discussion. In your opinion, is this a rookie mistake by a new(ish) GM unaware of the niceties of contract negotiations? If so, why isn't a team attorney present during these matters?
2008-12-19 07:50:04
621.   Bob Timmermann
For those not refreshing at home,


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