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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Voice of Experience
2008-12-20 07:30
by Jon Weisman

Blue Notes has a lengthy interview with Dodger veteran Clayton Kershaw.

Comments (403)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-12-20 07:45:46
1.   dkminnick
What a polite, mature, well-balanced kid.
2008-12-20 07:53:44
2.   PalmdaleSteve1
Speaking of the apartment and roommates, I smell a TV sitcom in this.

The Kid (Clayton)
The Lady's man (Russell)
The Cook (Ether)

Next Door Landlord/Chaperon (Larry Bowa)

2008-12-20 08:04:07
3.   Bumsrap
Is Ethier the cook because he brings along his wife or is that just too too chauvinistic.
2008-12-20 08:06:30
4.   Bumsrap
All this talk about the Dodgers really wanting Furcal because he such a good leadoff hitter, etc. has to mess with Pierre's mind.
2008-12-20 08:09:13
5.   PalmdaleSteve1
3 I think Ether family, wife and two little Ethers live over in Phoenix. Ether is the cook because he's got his own blog about food, therefore he's the Cook, not the Chief ala South Park, that's Russell's job....
2008-12-20 08:12:02
6.   PalmdaleSteve1
4 About that JP...can you point me to statistics that show he's had a drop off on performance numbers, before his contract and now as a Dodger? JP plays the game as he always has, the Dodgers are getting the same JP that they paid for, unlike Jones, Schmitt or any of the other Ned picks.
2008-12-20 08:39:12
7.   fanerman
Clayton: "Wins are a misleading statistic. As long as you get pitch well adn give your team a chance to win, that's all you can really do."
2008-12-20 08:53:19
8.   D4P
T'will be funny if his agent eventually tries to get him a big contract based in part upon his W-L record.
2008-12-20 08:56:55
9.   Sub4Era
6 I don't think anyone is going to argue that fact. Still doesn't make him a good player.
2008-12-20 08:59:25
10.   ChicagoDodger
6 JP plays the game as he always has, the Dodgers are getting the same JP that they paid for

I have read this comment many times regardinig JP, and I often wonder if the people who write it understand its just more of an indictment of just how bad a signing Pierre was.

You are getting exactly the performance you would expect out of Pierre, which is terrible (performnce). Which I can only conclude that it means there was "never" any chance at upside with him. And if the performce is bad, and there isn't a realistic chance at upside, then why the heck would "any" GM sign that player?

Is it really that difficult to find players who can't hit for power, can't get on base, can't play the field, and can't throw the baseball? I guess the answer is it is difficult, and when you find a player who can't do all those things, then you better sign him to a 5 year deal, and quick!

2008-12-20 09:03:57
11.   Ken Noe
Getting Manny was an acknowldgement that the Dodgers couldn't win with JP in left. I really can't imagine them now going with JP in 2009.
2008-12-20 09:11:19
12.   immouch
i see the basic point, that pierre was overrated but he's playing roughly was well as he ever played. but i don't know if that's true... speed is his skill. and to use that he's gotta get on base. as recently as two years before he became a dodger, he'd had two years of obp higher than .360. i'm not saying that made him a good starting MLB player, but it greatly enhanced his value over a guy who gets on at about a 330 clip (roughly his rate as a dodger). that's 45 or so extra times on base, or roughly 12 extra runs or, i dunno, my calculator isn't working, but you get the idea. he's been better, in the past, than he's been as a dodger. and, no, i'm not defending ned on this. but...
2008-12-20 09:13:57
13.   PalmdaleSteve1

And how is that the players fault? JP signed a contract based on 10 years in the bigs, with a track record. He has delivered on that track record, playing the same as he did in the 10 years before.

If there is a bad actor here, it's Ned for the sort of team he put together, not the player in this case JP.

Going even further, the character of JP is pretty darn good given the other attitudes of players in the MLB today. If just about any other player had been disrespected by the club the way JP has, they would be a problem for the team. JP has been been slammed by the media, the fans and to some extent the club, yet he shows up everyday, plays hard, works hard and pretty much takes it all without much complaint and keeps his mouth shut. Take a look at the Grumpy old man last year when his AB's were cut for an example of the spoiled nature and attitudes of today's players.

JP may not have the arm or the power that many in the fan base wants, but he is doing the job he was hired to do, pretty simple.

2008-12-20 09:20:08
14.   hernari

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone has said it's Juan Pierre's fault for losing playing time. The fact of the matter is the team decided it needed more out of his position and that seems to be a reflection of Ned and not JP.

2008-12-20 09:21:07
15.   ChicagoDodger
13 And how is that the players fault?

I have read this comment as well many times. Who says it has to be the players fault? Of course it's not his fault he's not better. He doesn't have the ability to be any better then he is.

And, when someone like myself indicates how bad a signing it was, I pretty much expected that everyone knew that meant the blame resided with the GM not the player. If I'm not mistaken, I think I even asked why the heck would "any" GM sign that player?

2008-12-20 09:23:09
16.   Brent Knapp
Clayton Kershaw, the Anti-Cliche. How refreshing for an athlete to respond thoughtfully.
2008-12-20 09:30:51
17.   hernari

He seems to have a good head on his shoulders at a very young age. Is this what the baseball guys describe as "good makeup"? I really dislike that phrase because it sounds very vague to me and seems for the most part irrelevant.

2008-12-20 09:31:16
18.   PalmdaleSteve1

Then we agree, well unless it's the major of Chi Town trying to sell a place on a MLB team for profit...but that's another kettle of Chicago political fish all together....LOL.

2008-12-20 09:44:30
19.   silverwidow
Pierre, since 2005 (OBP/SLG):

.326 .354
.330 .388
.331 .353
.327 .328

These are numbers you don't want in an everyday lineup. He hasn't been "good" since 2003-04 w/FLA.

2008-12-20 09:44:55
20.   D Money
ok. is Ether supposed to be Ethier?

and is Kershaw a Vet now? or was that a compliment to his maturity or was it a joke?

im really confused.

2008-12-20 09:52:25
21.   Brent Knapp
20 I wasn't making a joke. I get annoyed by athletes who use cliche-speak. Compare Kershaw's answers to Matt Kemp's in this interview.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Matt Kemp fan, but, Kershaw seems to avoid the cliche better. Is my use of cliche becoming cliche?

2008-12-20 10:12:34
22.   Icaros
...and pretty much takes it all without much complaint and keeps his mouth shut.

Not true at all. He and his agent complained all year after he lost his starting job. He deserved to lose his job because he sucks. And he has sucked even more with the Dodgers than with his previous teams (career OPS of .717; OPS of .684 and .655 in two years with LA).

2008-12-20 10:14:00
23.   Icaros
And Pierre's career OPS of .717 includes his two years in LA, so it was higher before he was brought in.
2008-12-20 10:21:14
24.   jasonungar07
Pierre is one of the most selfish players I have ever watched. Forget the stats.
2008-12-20 10:23:39
25.   hernari

Please explain that statement.

2008-12-20 10:24:27
26.   D4P
I had never thought of it in terms of selfishness, but come to think of it, Pierre's extreme unwillingness to risk striking out (by taking more pitches and thus drawing more walks) is ultimately a selfish decision on his part.

The team would be better off if he converted his groundouts into a combo of Ks and BBs, but he's too embarrassed by the Ks to do it.

2008-12-20 10:29:09
27.   hernari
26 "Pierre's extreme unwillingness to risk striking out (by taking more pitches and thus drawing more walks) is ultimately a selfish decision on his part."

I've come to the conclusion that since JP has no power, pitchers don't pitch around him. Therefore most pitches are in the strike zone. It's kind of hard to walk when pitchers are throwing you strikes. Can you blame them? What's the worst he'll do, bunt a double over the third baseman's head?

I fail to see that as selfishness on his part.

2008-12-20 10:29:41
28.   Icaros

Yeah, but like all of us he grew up with stupid coaches telling him that it is far better to make contact than to strike out, so it's hard for me to think there's something sinister from Pierre's POV. He's just a lousy player who does almost nothing well.

2008-12-20 10:30:14
29.   D4P
I haven't watched many Dodger games since Pierre arrived, but Gameday has given the impression that Pierre routinely swings at pitches way out of the strike zone.
2008-12-20 10:30:50
30.   Icaros

Please see the career of Brett Butler. He could've used the same excuse.

2008-12-20 10:32:08
31.   KG16
7 - I still like the win stat, but I'm also a fan of the CG, reliever wins always seem less important. That said, you do have to look at W-L in conjunction with run support and ERA. If a guy wins 20 games with an ERA of 4.50, that doesn't make him all that good, but if the ERA drops to 2.50, it's a horse of a different color.
2008-12-20 10:32:17
32.   hernari

Just because he's not as "good" as taking a walk at Butler doesn't mean he's selfish. It could mean he doesn't have a good as eye.

2008-12-20 10:34:44
33.   Icaros

See above. I'm not making the selfish argument. I'm making the "he royally sucks" argument.

2008-12-20 10:38:43
34.   D4P
I'll support both the "He's selfish" and "He royally sucks" arguments with greater-than-zero zeal, though the "He's selfish" argument warrants a caveat.

I don't think Juan realizes that his unwillingness to risk striking out is actually hurting the team, and that the team would be better off if he both struck out and walked more. I think he thinks he's helping by putting the ball in play so much.

2008-12-20 10:39:17
35.   KG16
28 - a hitter's job is to hit the ball. the fetish with walks and strikeouts is really strange to me. I understand getting on base with a walk if you're not given anything to hit, but really, you shouldn't be going to the plate looking to draw a walk (unless you're a pitcher). And striking out is the third worst outcome for a hitter (behind triple plays and double plays) because it does not advance the offense. Yes, bad things may happen when you put the ball in play, but the vast majority of good things also tend to happen when you put the ball in play.

This is not a defense of Pierre. I think he is terrible and that he shouldn't be starting for any team in the majors, except the Giants, Red Sox, and Yankees - but that's just a sign of how much I dislike those teams. But it's a fundamental point about the game of baseball.

2008-12-20 10:45:26
36.   Icaros

It's not a fundamental point. Strikeouts are not as bad as you think, and groundouts are not as good as you think. Throwing your bat out there to make contact just for the hell of it is a really bad approach, no matter what your Little League coach told you.

2008-12-20 10:49:06
37.   KG16
runner on second no outs, which is a preferable outcome:

1. strike out
2. ground ball to the right side, runner moves to third

And I'm not saying a hitter should be "throwing [his] bat out there to make contact just for the hell of it". I said: I understand getting on base with a walk if you're not given anything to hit. But swinging wildly a good or decent pitches, and missing, does not advance the offense either.

2008-12-20 10:49:16
38.   D4P
I have no way to prove the following claim, and others may disagree. But here's what I believe, at this particular point in time.

Say Juan Pierre has 100 plate appearances. Consider the following:

Likely result of his normal, fear of striking out approach

30 singles
70 groundouts

Likely result of taking pitches approach

35 walks
65 strikeouts.

The above "analysis" is obviously over-simplified, but it helps make my point, which is that IMO Pierre would get on base more often if he took more pitches and didn't worry about striking out. Plus, he has so little power that it's not as if he has to worry about giving up extra-base hits by not swinging.

2008-12-20 10:50:34
39.   KG16
also, I should point out that I made no comment about ground outs. I made a comment about putting the ball in play, and mentioned that while bad things (like ground outs) happen when you do that, most of the good things (like RBI doubles) also happen that way.
2008-12-20 10:50:39
40.   scareduck
35 - the fetish with walks and strikeouts is really strange to me.

A hit is better than an out. A walk is better than an out but not as good as a hit. Strikeouts have the same value as other kinds of outs, EXCEPT that it, in general, can generally have no positive outcome on the game for the offense (reach on wild pitch/error notwithstanding). Calling this a "fetish" is to ignore the fundamentals of the game; it would make as much sense to say that hitters have a fetish for getting hits, or pitchers have a fetish for making outs.

2008-12-20 10:53:38
41.   KG16
38 - I see your point. I think where the apparent disagreement is, is in the idea of "fear of striking out". A hitter shouldn't fear striking out, because it does happen. Pierre's approach, now that it's been mentioned does suggest a fear of striking out (one could probably have said the same thing about Nomar and his constant first pitch swinging approach).

My point about striking out and walking was more general, rather than Pierre specific.

2008-12-20 10:53:55
42.   silverwidow
Kuroda pulls out of WBC due to shoulder issues:

2008-12-20 10:55:45
43.   hernari

"A walk is better than an out but not as good as a hit."

I'm not so sure I believe that to be true 100 percent of the time. A ten pitch walk is better than a one pitch single in my opinion.

2008-12-20 10:55:59
44.   D4P
Pierre's approach, now that it's been mentioned does suggest a fear of striking out

More specifically, Pierre has publicly reported his aversion to striking out. He said something to the effect that doing whatever he can to avoid striking out is "his thing".

2008-12-20 10:59:06
45.   Icaros

Why aren't any other possible outcomes presented? Such as:

3. Draw a walk. Now there are two on and no out.
4. Batter, not wasting an out by intentionally grounding to second, instead forces the pitcher to make 8 pitches until he finally leaves one over the plate that is smacked for a double. One run scores.

One of the biggest benefits of the high-walk-rate teams is the high pitch counts they force. A strikeout is bad, but the pitcher at least has to throw a few pitches. Batters like Pierre swing early in the count, at everything, so in that sense the strikeout is the more productive out because it puts more work on the pitcher and helps get to the soft bullpen quicker.

2008-12-20 10:59:07
46.   KG16
40 - I used the word fetish because it does seem like a fetish too me. Seriously, if Ted Williams was on this team, in his prime, I think half the board would be complaining about him not taking enough walks and not striking out enough, even though he'd be hitting .408.

You take what you can get and don't try to do too much with it. That's what I learned as a hitter growing up.

2008-12-20 11:00:42
47.   KG16
45 - only two options were shown because the dichotomy that you chose was ground out or strike out.

Another option would be: hitter hits a two run home run, but that's not relevant to the discussion.

2008-12-20 11:03:38
48.   KG16
47 - and there was no indication in my question that the ground ball was intentional.
2008-12-20 11:05:00
49.   hernari

I'm glad he has chosen to rest his shoulder instead of being a "gamer" and playing through pain. Let's hope it's nothing serious.

2008-12-20 11:05:46
50.   Bob Timmermann
I can't picture anyone ever complaining that Ted Williams didn't walk enough. He walked 147 times the year he hit .406, something that made it a lot easier to have a batting average over .400.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-12-20 11:06:12
51.   KG16
43 - That's an interesting idea. I wonder though, what is more valuable, the psychological effect of a first pitch hit (particularly if it's a hard hit ball), or the physical effect of the extra nine pitches.

And with what is probably my first cycle, I'm off to finish Christmas shopping and then to a poker tournament.

2008-12-20 11:06:34
52.   Dave60
Changing the subject from Pierre back to Kershaw, did anyone note the comments at the end of the article linked above? The following was posted this morning, "Dodgers rumored to be signing Jon Garland, Randy Wolf and Randy Johnson. Those three plus Kuroda and Billingsly will round out the rotation. Kershaw and McDonald not ready. Kuo set up. Broxton closer. Wade bridge."

I don't mean to make fun of the writer. There was probably a time in my life when I would have agreed. But I copy the quote to remind the participants here that we have a more advanced understanding of the game than much of the ticket buying public. And the McCourts must play to the folks who think that giving IP to Jon Garland instead of Kershaw is a good idea. We're only lucky that the the writer isn't arguing for Trevor Hoffman over an unready Broxton.

2008-12-20 11:06:48
53.   D4P
I said earlier that Pierre has very little power.

I actually think that's at least partially a result of his approach. As it is, he swings weakly in order to make contact, with little concern for driving the ball. Plus, he chases pitches that aren't easy to drive, whether in the strike zone or not. This combination of weak swings and no plate discipline is pretty much the worst possible combination for a hitter, though it (somewhat ironically) produces a high BA and number of hits, which is enough to convince certain types of GMs that the hitter is worth 5 year/$45 million contracts.

I would assume that he could not only increase his OBP by taking more pitches and being more selective, but also his power. If he focused on swinging only at good pitches instead of everything that leaves the pitcher's hand, he'd probably end up hitting the ball with more authority.

2008-12-20 11:06:58
54.   KG16
ok, no cycle then
2008-12-20 11:08:49
55.   Bob Hendley
42 - Jeez, get Rat Face on the line.
2008-12-20 11:08:51
56.   KG16
53 - I would agree on every point there.
2008-12-20 11:09:14
57.   Megaballs
42. I don't want my 33 year old pitcher who I owe $26 mil for two years pitching in exhibitions.

Why Boston lets Matsusaka pitch is beyond me too.

0. As great as Kershaw will be, we need more starters here. I'd hate to have Kershaw picth 200 innings and would love Minotaur and McDonald in the pen to start the season. We could then phase them into the rotation as other starters inevitably breakdown or miss a turn or two.

2008-12-20 11:10:34
58.   Dave60
50 As I recall, Williams claimed that the Bosox coaches often complained that Williams took too many walks. The coaching staff argued that Williams was augmenting his batting average by a few points by being too picky at the plate. Williams countered that his entire batting success was built on waiting for good pitches. Of course, Williams was a bit prickly, so might have been self-serving in his recollections.
2008-12-20 11:12:29
59.   Bob Timmermann
Boston has to let Matsuzaka pitch because Matsuzaka is a national hero in Japan. The PR fallout would too much to take and it could impact the Red Sox chances of signing more Japanese talent, especially after the Tazawa signing.

Kuroda was not a big star in Japan.

2008-12-20 11:14:54
60.   Marty
We haven't had a good Pierre argument for awhile. It's kind of has a cleansing effect actually.
2008-12-20 11:18:24
61.   silverwidow
52 It's just an ignorant comment; the Dodgers are rumored to be signing ONE of those pitchers, not all three.
2008-12-20 11:19:18
62.   Tripon
42 Uh oh. That's going to affect Dodgers season, isn't it?
2008-12-20 11:20:35
63.   old dodger fan
Congratulations to the University of Richmond for winning the national championship of Div I-A Football last night.

Who would have thought that that the Div I-A people (and Div II and Division III)could have figured out how to run a national playoff?

2008-12-20 11:20:45
64.   Tripon

Yi Jian Lian of the Nets looks to be 3 years older than his stated age.

2008-12-20 11:20:47
65.   Harold M Johnson
Pierre is simply not a starting player in MLB. If he played incredible defense at SS or 2B, he would be. If he had a cannon for an arm and great OF judgement, he'd possibly be. As it is, he's a superb pinch-runner and middling pinch-hitter.

The Ted Williams argument actually goes exactly the other way-- Ted always wanted to get a hit, but used the count and the pitcher's fear of a walk to his advantage. If Pierre could incorporate even a little bit of that approach he'd probably be better.

2008-12-20 11:22:13
66.   Icaros

Well, those ground balls usually are intentional. Ask Darin Erstad.

And the two-run home run is relevant to the discussion, because the discussion goes beyond strikeouts vs. groundouts. Impatient hitters who swing early in the count are not helping their teams by grounding and flying out instead of striking out.

They are giving the pitcher easier outs because they would rather swing early to ensure contact instead of waiting and possibly not getting that pitch they can really do something with, ultimately striking out.

A player like Adam Dunn is an example of the latter. Juan Pierre could characterize the former.

In the aggregate, teams with players who are more like Dunn not only get on base more, despite making less contact, but they also get more extra-base hits because they swing at the pitches they can actually hit well, all the while forcing higher pitch counts throughout the game.

2008-12-20 11:22:41
67.   Bob Timmermann
The kids call it Football Championship Subdivision now.
2008-12-20 11:22:59
68.   Harold M Johnson
52 I disagree-- I'm friends with tons of people who would find the discussions on this site ridiculous but are huge Dodger fans and are completely stoked about Clayton Kershaw. Even casual fans know that the kid is a big part of our future.
2008-12-20 11:24:42
69.   old dodger fan
67 For some of us old guys the new name will take some getting used to.
2008-12-20 11:27:34
70.   Bumsrap
58 -Of course, Williams was a bit prickly, so might have been self-serving in his recollections If not prickly, maybe icy.
2008-12-20 11:31:45
71.   Bumsrap
4 Bumsrap, why did you get this Pierre thing going again? It didn't look intentional but just the same....
2008-12-20 11:32:39
72.   Andrew Shimmin
Doesn't selfishness require intent? If Pierre thinks his approach is the most useful available to him, what's selfish about that? Maybe he's wrong (I'm not at all convinced by this--I think the Icaros Postulate is most likely), but it's not selfish to be wrong.
2008-12-20 11:41:40
73.   Andrew Shimmin
Duke seems to be significantly better at basketball than Xavier.
2008-12-20 11:47:59
74.   kinbote
0 I don't think pitching to contact is a good term.

Oh boy. Kid K indeed :)

2008-12-20 11:51:01
75.   Bumsrap
I think the Dodgers could have traded and still could trade Pierre to the Cups or Reds if they wanted to trade him. I think they would rather have Pierre and all of his salary than no Pierre and some of his salary.
2008-12-20 11:59:41
76.   kinbote
Going back to comment 371 from the previous thread (in which the future of DeJesus is discussed), this illustrates the fundamental difference between the Blake and Pierre signings: 3y/$17 mil is nowhere close to 5y/$45 mil.

As far as I'm concerned, worst case scenario is that Blake loses his job in 2010 (to DeWitt most likely) while DeJesus knocks down the door to become our starting 2b. Blake would still have value as a veteran bench player (replacing Loretta who replaced Nomar, etc.).

Hu is really the only one who suffers from the Furcal signing, but he's done very little to suggest he even needs to be taken into condsideration. Right now, Hu profiles as a nice back-up middle infielder who might improve his way into a starting job somewhere down the line (perhaps in 2012 when Furcal is gone).

Because we lack the organizational depth in the infield that we had fairly recently, these infield signings are nothing but good news. And, they are a major part of the reason why I see less of a need to add another outfielder: good or bad, we are swimming in those.

2008-12-20 12:00:22
77.   Eric Stephen
I don't think they will try to trade Pierre unless they sign Manny.
2008-12-20 12:01:18
78.   kinbote
75 Cups

Rule 1? ;)

2008-12-20 12:06:01
79.   kinbote
77 I think they are certainly "trying" but who wants Pierre? He had some value when he left Florida, less when he left Chicago, and now almost none. I truly believe baseball has figured out that players like Pierre are just fine, as long as they occupy the bench and make close to the minimum. Here's a good exercise: Try to think of the free agent contract JP would get this offseason. It's not much, is it?
2008-12-20 12:06:47
80.   Tripon
77 Whatever the Dodgers do with Pierre should be independent of what they do with Manny. Even if the Dodgers don't re-sign Manny, Pierre doesn't project as a starter with the Dodgers currently, with Andruw Jones starting at center field over him, and Kemp and Ethier starting at the corners. JP doesn't fit into the Dodgers plan no matter what, and this team should be proactive into shutting down any clubhouse cancers.

As for JP's OPS, I feel that we should be looking at OBP much more than his slugging. That said, its possible for JP to walk more, and we don't even have to look at Brett Butler's career to point that out. Russell Martin had a sub .400 slugging percentage in 2008, but was able to post 90 walks in 2008. Its possible to show little power and walk a ton, but JP doesn't have Martin's eyes either so I don't know.

2008-12-20 12:07:00
81.   trainwreck
Icaros, your favorite "performer" is in town this weekend.
2008-12-20 12:07:17
82.   Bumsrap
78 - I did not spell it that way. I will fight this, I will fight this, I will fight this until I take my last breath.
2008-12-20 12:07:58
83.   Tripon
79 If JP was a FA this year? 2 years, plus an option with a low buyout. He's still a plus defender in center field even with that horrible arm.
2008-12-20 12:10:12
84.   Gen3Blue
"The Icarus Postulate" sounds like a book by whats his name.

71,4 I'm not sure how innocent that looks:0)

2008-12-20 12:10:34
85.   kinbote
Um, that Kuroda news is not good, I believe. (Maybe he's just being overly cautious and polite, feeling he is letting down his country.) I'll wait for Jon to tell me how I should react.
2008-12-20 12:11:31
86.   Andrew Shimmin
76- There are much worse case scenarios for Blake than that. Though, I will confess that I find it difficult to take a worst case scenario at all seriously if it doesn't have any bees.
2008-12-20 12:13:06
87.   Tripon
86 76 Or we trade one of the Blake, DeWitt or DeJesus group.
2008-12-20 12:13:08
88.   Bumsrap
76 I think Hu will play as much as his bat allows and will not have to wait until 2012 for that chance. If Hu can do a very good job at short, it would be a blast watching Furcal play CF. Ethier, Kemp, and Furcal would be a speedy outfield and all with good arms.
2008-12-20 12:13:51
89.   Eric Stephen
Whatever the Dodgers do with Pierre should be independent of what they do with Manny. Even if the Dodgers don't re-sign Manny, Pierre doesn't project as a starter with the Dodgers currently, with Andruw Jones starting at center field over him, and Kemp and Ethier starting at the corners. JP doesn't fit into the Dodgers plan no matter what, and this team should be proactive into shutting down any clubhouse cancers

If they don't sign Manny, there's no way they go into the season with Jones as the everyday CF with no backup. I agree with your point, but we aren't dealing with a perfect world, in what the Dodgers should do. If they always did what they should do, Pierre wouldn't have been signed in the first place.

2008-12-20 12:14:39
90.   trainwreck
BH, still do not know yet if I am coming down for a game.

Would be in February if I do.

2008-12-20 12:16:08
91.   Bumsrap
I like the fact that the Dodgers still have Abreu, DeJesus, Hu, and DeWitt to challenge Furcal and Blake and each other.
2008-12-20 12:17:30
92.   Eric Stephen
Always compete. Win forever. :)
2008-12-20 12:17:55
93.   Icaros

Ha. Alas, I'm leaving for a cruise tonight.

My friend and I went when she was in town about a year ago. Once was enough.

2008-12-20 12:17:56
94.   scareduck
43 - I'm not so sure I believe that to be true 100 percent of the time. A ten pitch walk is better than a one pitch single in my opinion.

If the next batter taps back to the box on the first pitch, does it matter? Baseball is very contextual. Yes, you do want to tire the opposing pitcher, but from an overall scoring perspective, the only time the two are even close to equivalent is if the bags are loaded. Even then, a well-placed single can cash in two runners.

2008-12-20 12:18:02
95.   Tripon
88 I think Hu will play as much as his bat allows and will not have to wait until 2012 for that chance. If Hu can do a very good job at short, it would be a blast watching Furcal play CF. Ethier, Kemp, and Furcal would be a speedy outfield and all with good arms.

Its a nice dream, but Furcal would fight any move off of shortstop.

2008-12-20 12:18:09
96.   Gen3Blue
65 It is easy to verify your thoughts by looking at Maury Wills. I was shocked to see that many of his offensive rates were similar to JP. Of course hitting .300 in that pitcher's era was very different from today.
2008-12-20 12:20:05
97.   kinbote
89 Repko's a backup. Isn't that why we brought him back?
2008-12-20 12:20:14
98.   Tripon
89 If they don't sign Manny, there's no way they go into the season with Jones as the everyday CF with no backup. I agree with your point, but we aren't dealing with a perfect world, in what the Dodgers should do. If they always did what they should do, Pierre wouldn't have been signed in the first place.

Jones' backup would be Kemp. The Dodgers would be looking for somebody to replace Ethier in left field, and moving Ethier to right.

The downgrade from JP in left field to Jason Repko or Delwyn Young can't be that bad right? Hopefully?

2008-12-20 12:28:55
99.   ChicagoDodger
95 He just signed (perhaps) his final contract. He may not fight it that hard. If it makes the Dodgers better.
2008-12-20 12:33:04
100.   MC Safety
98 I hope you're joking around. If not that's one of the funniest things I've ever read.

I don't see any scenario where Matt Kemp would back up Smiley McManboobs.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-12-20 12:35:52
101.   Tripon
99 Oh, he'll fight it. He'll fight it as much as Jeter would if the Yankees would try to move Jeter off of Shortstop. Dodgers don't need to start fights with its players when they don't have to.
2008-12-20 12:36:58
102.   Tripon
100 Except that was what happened in 2008. If Jones is in the lineup, he's starting at center field, and Kemp and Ethier are starting in right and left respectively.
2008-12-20 12:37:50
103.   Megaballs
80. Right in your assessment, IMO.
2008-12-20 12:42:21
104.   DemRmyBums
57 Why don't you want Kirshaw pitching 200 innings this year? That would only be 30 more innings than this year. He pitched 107 innings for the Dodgers 61 Innings for the Suns and 2 innings in the post season. As I discussed yesterday I feel the Dodgers would be better off in the long run if they used Trosoco, and McDonald to fill out thier rotation. This might make us a little early in the season but I think that the experience they would gane would pay large benifits later in the season and I think it would be a winning combination.

We still have three other options to fill in for Kuroda if he is not ready for the start of the season: Stults, Kuo, or Schmidt.

If Schmidt is not ready for the start of the season that could create some problems if anyone else goes down.

2008-12-20 12:46:44
105.   Eric Stephen
Repko's a backup only in the sense that if we have three OF who are pretty much everyday players. My point was that Jones at this point is not an everyday player, and has a lot to prove to show he is an everyday player. If Manny is not resigned, the club needs the 4th OF to essentially be almost a 3rd OF since Jones is such a gamble right now. In the club's eyes, Pierre is still a regular player or semi-regular (since it took Manny to bench him for good) while Repko is not.

Channeling my inner Jim Tracy...

Do I want to see Pierre traded? Yes, immediately, whatever the return.

Do I think Pierre will be traded if Manny is not re-signed? Nope.

2008-12-20 12:58:39
106.   kinbote
105 I see what you're saying. What's strange to me is Colletti's supposed stance of Manny or Bust. If he feels we need an outfielder, we should be in the outfielder market. If not, then Manny shouldn't even be considered. Can you imagine how wild it would be if Colletti went way outside the box [others here have suggested it] and signed Orlando Hudson? We could have:


(Obviously, I haven't perfected the entire lineup, but the top two would be set.)

If we do THAT, then I could see Pierre staying . . .

2008-12-20 12:59:52
107.   kinbote
Barn Burner in Albuquerque!
2008-12-20 13:00:05
108.   trainwreck
I would not like that much at all.
2008-12-20 13:00:34
109.   Bob Timmermann
My Saturday afternoon television viewing is not sanctioned by xeifrank. That's all I can say.
2008-12-20 13:02:34
110.   oshea2002
Teams that should be ashamed of themselves right now.

1) USC Hoops - North Dakota State. Enough said.
2) Fresno State (can't stop CSU? Seriously?

2008-12-20 13:03:27
111.   trainwreck
I am watching Michigan State vs Texas.

Now this is a good game.

2008-12-20 13:06:24
112.   kinbote
111 Thanks for the tip.
2008-12-20 13:09:13
113.   Bob Timmermann
It only took me six tries to find the right station.
2008-12-20 13:12:05
114.   hernari
"I'm not so sure I believe that to be true 100 percent of the time."

That's my quote. I didn't say I thought a multi-pitch walk was better than a one pitch ground out every time because of course it depends on the circumstances.

2008-12-20 13:12:08
115.   kinbote
I did it in four.
2008-12-20 13:13:11
116.   Bob Timmermann
The Summit conference is greatly underestimated.

Mainly because nobody knows where it is.
North Dakota St.
Southern Utah
Western Ill.
South Dakota St.
Mo. Kansas City
Oral Roberts

Those are some hellacious road trips.

2008-12-20 13:14:45
117.   kinbote
Has anyone ever conducted a study on the psychological effects those little ranking numbers next to colleges' names have on one's overall enjoyment of a sporting event?
2008-12-20 13:17:00
118.   kinbote
116 IUPUI. Punchline to obscure unremembered joke or actual college? Please discuss.
2008-12-20 13:19:36
119.   Bob Timmermann
If you go by the RPI it's:

(193) North Dakota State at (37) USC.

Later it will be

(314) Mercer at (5) UCLA

2008-12-20 13:21:17
120.   oshea2002
116 - that's ridiculous, no conference should have schools in Michigan AND Utah. I guess the WAC is even worse.
2008-12-20 13:21:56
121.   Andrew Shimmin
Sounds like the CBS announcing team has their mics pinned on upside down.
2008-12-20 13:22:17
122.   Bob Timmermann
IUPUI is one of the good schools in men's volleyball that isn't on the West Coast or in Hawai'i.

It's Indiana University/Purdue University at Indianapolis.

IPFW is the same mixture except it's in Fort Wayne.

I think IUPUI likes the palindrome. If they don't, they should.

2008-12-20 13:22:59
123.   Gagne55
Personally, I'd prefer re-signing Manny, making some trades and having:

SS Furcal
2B Utley
1B Pujols
LF Manny
3B A-Rod
CF Sizemore
RF Berkman
C Mauer

Now that line-up could win the NL West.

2008-12-20 13:23:09
124.   jasonungar07
Sorry for the hit and run 25 I didn't realize the next words out of my wife's mouths would be "I am hungry and then by the way let's go to toys r us and bed bath and beyond" Sheesh if we had time we would have gone to linen and things as well.

But to go back to answering what I meant..I watch every game. Pretty much have since I was 10 in 1981 other than when I went to College in 91..And now it's just not a good summer night without a dodger game due to my lack of partyness. Anyhow others have said it but he is sooooo predictable in how he is a leader in baseball in outs every year. That makes him selfish to me. He won't bunt for hits, he won't change his approach to get hits, he just figures he will go up there 700 times. Get 100 clean grounders through the right side, get another 50 or so bloopers to left field to fall and 50 beat em out hits for his .300

The other 500 times (ok 450 minus the k's and walks) he will hit a grounder to ss or to 2b or a fly ball to shallow left. When needed to do the small ball stuff he can't or he won't. He can't bunt for hits or refuses to..For someone who should know the ball is coming at 85 right down the gut he never seems to work the count, foul of pitches etc.

When I watch him I see a guy who has a chip on his shoulder a guy who will do it his way. I don't see joy from him as a player other than stealing bases

2008-12-20 13:23:49
125.   Bob Timmermann
You're ignoring Centenary. It's in Louisiana.
2008-12-20 13:23:56
126.   oshea2002
Purdue just scored 3 unanswered TD's to take a 21-0 lead on Davidson in the Wooden Tradition.
2008-12-20 13:25:53
127.   oshea2002
125 - I'll be honest, I didn't know what state Centenary is in. All those Louisiana schools not named LSU just need to form their own conference.
2008-12-20 13:26:32
128.   scareduck
124 - going to Linens N Things at this point would be nigh well futile. Their Chapter 7 liquidation sale has them about stripped to the walls.
2008-12-20 13:26:42
129.   Tripon

Diamond Lueng says that Kuroda's off season throwing program developed by the Dodgers, and not anything wrong with his arm is forcing Kuroda to skip the WBC.

2008-12-20 13:27:19
130.   D4P
How do you know that the 3rd TD will be unanswered...?
2008-12-20 13:32:09
131.   Gen3Blue
Sad but true: unless Andrew has come a long way JP is far closer to an everyday player than he. And JP would have to play LF IMO.
2008-12-20 13:32:25
132.   oshea2002
130 - haha, good point.
2008-12-20 13:34:40
133.   trainwreck
I agree. Just another reason why we have to bring back Manny.
2008-12-20 13:34:44
134.   Bob Timmermann
The Centenary Gents will send famous alum Robert Parish over to oshea2002's house to tell him where the school is.

And Robert Parish is not a nice human being.

2008-12-20 13:35:24
135.   oshea2002
Not a good start in Sin City today for the University of Arizona. Hopefully the football team puts forth a better effort.
2008-12-20 13:38:38
136.   Gen3Blue
122 Not only that but it reads the same3 backword! Bu-da-boom!
2008-12-20 13:42:18
137.   Bob Timmermann
No one should feel bad about the University of Arizona for any reason.
2008-12-20 13:43:37
138.   D4P
Should we feel good about it for any reason...?
2008-12-20 13:46:17
139.   Bob Timmermann
That's each person's own option.
2008-12-20 13:46:30
140.   oshea2002
137 - At this point, I need the pac 10 to win as many bowls as possible. The Oregon v. Okie St game is a big one. I don't mind seeing their hoops team get rolled though. I thought I'd like them more once my brother enrolled there, but I actually dislike them even more.
2008-12-20 13:50:02
141.   oshea2002
And we've held on to defeat those pesky Bison from somewhere in North Dakota.
2008-12-20 13:54:16
142.   Bob Timmermann
NDSU is in Fargo.
2008-12-20 14:15:48
143.   Tripon
Most free agents probably read Red Sox owner John Henry's cryptic e-mail in regards to the Teixeira negotiations, which probably was a rewrite of something he wrote to Frank McCourt when he was negotiating to buy McCourt's house outside Boston, which, roughly translated, might have read, "If you can get $30 million for the house, you'd be wise to take it." McCourt didn't, and Henry got the house for considerably less.

The Red Sox owner is smarter than the Dodgers owner.

2008-12-20 14:17:53
144.   trainwreck
Funny how McCourt couldn't afford to buy Red Sox, but could buy Dodgers.
2008-12-20 14:21:32
145.   Tripon
144 Both deals was made because MLB had to create some shady deals.

Henry could only buy the Red Sox if he could sell his Marlins ownership, Loria wanted somebody to take the Expos off his hands, and switched to the Marlins, and MLB had to play stewardship for a few years and then cashed out to the Learners.

And we already went over the debt McCourt had to take from NEWS Corp, just to attain ownership of the Dodgers.

2008-12-20 14:42:37
146.   Tripon
Lakers guard Jordan Farmar has a torn lateral meniscus in his left knee, an MRI revealed on Saturday. He is headed to Los Angeles where he will undergo further testing on Monday.

Uh oh.

2008-12-20 14:45:44
147.   trainwreck
Maybe this will force them to trade for another point guard. They need it.
2008-12-20 14:46:21
148.   Tripon
147 Javaris Crittenton can be had!
2008-12-20 14:56:29
149.   oshea2002
Not like it matters, but it sounds like Evander Holyfield was beyond cheated in his fight that just ended v. Valuev.
2008-12-20 15:02:40
150.   Tripon
How bad a boxer do you have to be in order to have to cheat Holyfield out of a win?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-12-20 15:06:47
151.   trainwreck
He needs to be forcefully retired before he dies.
2008-12-20 15:07:04
152.   trainwreck
Same with Riddick Bowe.
2008-12-20 15:08:09
153.   Tripon
Somehow, Mike Tyson has figured out how to live in retirement while Holyfield can't leave the ring.
2008-12-20 15:14:49
154.   oshea2002
151 - he owes 12 million to creditors and his house is worth 9.5. He won't be quitting for a while.
2008-12-20 15:15:52
155.   Eric Stephen
The clear win-win solution for all of this is for Al Davis to fight Evander Holyfield.

On Christmas.

In Russia.

2008-12-20 15:16:41
156.   trainwreck
He dies in the ring, boxing could die with him.
2008-12-20 15:17:09
157.   trainwreck
Now that is an idea.
2008-12-20 15:22:08
158.   68elcamino427
Where's Manny?

Let's get it on!

I'm ready for some baseball.

2008-12-20 15:22:23
159.   Bluebleeder87
don't know if this was mentioned earlier (apologies if it has) but: [] ->Kuroda had intended to play for Team Japan, the defending Classic champions, but has been slowed in his rehab work to strengthen his right shoulder. Kuroda was bothered by shoulder tendinitis last season, which at one point forced him onto the disabled list.
2008-12-20 15:32:24
160.   oshea2002
CNNSI on the Holyfield debacle.

2008-12-20 15:36:25
161.   trainwreck
ASU having all kinds of problems with BYU after barely beating IUPUI.

The Pac-10 is absolutely terrible.

2008-12-20 15:37:14
162.   Marty
I've been touting a place called Noodle House in Monterrey Park for awhile for their great made-to-order dumplings but I found a better place. Kingburg Kitchen, 715 W. Las Tunas in San Gabriel. They have a lunch special of a large bowl of spicy beef noodle soup and six dumplings for 6.50. Get their pan-fried buns with pork and leek. Absolutely amazing and much more flavorful than Noodle House. Very nice people who run the place too.
2008-12-20 15:51:04
163.   Harold M Johnson
162 Marty check out some of the places mentioned here. I've been to J&J and it's awesome:

2008-12-20 15:56:04
164.   trainwreck
Wow, ending of ASU/BYU was crazy.
2008-12-20 15:56:55
165.   Marty
Yeah, I've been to those too. I really think Kingburg is superior. The pan-fried bao was probably the best bun I've ever had.
2008-12-20 16:30:00
166.   Mind Revolution

I work in the insurance office in that center of Kingsburg Kitchen. You should stop by if you need some insurance. Or if you just want to say hi to a fellow DT reader. We can go get lunch. Not right now though time for me to leave.

2008-12-20 16:35:22
167.   Sam DC
Nationals taking a flyer on Daniel Cabrera.

Makes sense.

2008-12-20 16:39:49
168.   trainwreck
How many years are the Nationals going to have to stink to be good?

I say very long, especially after the draft decision they made last year.

2008-12-20 17:05:48
169.   Kevin Lewis
For anyone heading to Vegas soon, I came across an amazing Italian Place...Pasta Mia. It was wonderful
2008-12-20 17:12:14
170.   Bob Timmermann
The Arizona fans at the Las Vegas Bowl DID NOT storm the field after the opening coin toss. They showed a lot of restraint.
2008-12-20 17:14:14
171.   trainwreck
How many fans could there be?

Got to be at least 70% BYU fans.

2008-12-20 17:18:26
172.   Sam DC
168 I'd be the last person in the world to defend a floundering rebuilding team hashing up it's effort to sign their first round draft pick, but they do have the #10 overall pick this year as compensation.

Now, if they don't sign that guy . . .

2008-12-20 17:19:54
173.   fanerman
Clayton sure is a wiley one.
2008-12-20 17:22:20
174.   das411 does one risk banishment if they root openly for PSU vs the Cardinal tonight?
2008-12-20 17:24:03
175.   Bob Timmermann
You may cheer for whomever you want with no fear of reprisal.
2008-12-20 17:25:17
176.   trainwreck
Unless you root for Pakistan in cricket.
2008-12-20 17:28:16
177.   Marty
166 Wow, that's interesting. I'll try to drop by the next time.
2008-12-20 17:29:52
178.   Bob Timmermann
Stanford is also a huge underdog.

You would risk banishment if you root for Arizona tonight in the Las Vegas Bowl.
But that's just me and my arbitrary justice.

2008-12-20 17:36:06
179.   das411
Ahhh and it's just really really quiet in here because everybody is watching ESPN2 and spellbound, right Bob?
2008-12-20 17:40:50
180.   fanerman
2008-12-20 17:41:22
181.   das411
I was there the first time she did that awesome jump serve...and this will be the last match we see it :'(
2008-12-20 17:42:05
182.   Sam DC
Love Actually is on Oxygen . . .
2008-12-20 17:42:40
183.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN is using way too many numbers in its score bug on the top of the screen.

It reads

Set 2 2 Stan 3 1 Penn St 7 Penn St Leads 1-0

2008-12-20 17:47:57
184.   das411
Ask Buffalo Bill fans if they consider those teams failures...their answer will probably be YES, YES THEY WERE!
2008-12-20 17:50:16
185.   trainwreck
I don't know. My friend is a Bills fan and they pretty much all expect failure. So just to get that far is a dream for them. Especially since they have the longest playoff drought in the NFL.
2008-12-20 17:51:16
186.   Indiana Jon
I stay away from here for one little day so I can put a new floor in my dining room and you guys talk about IUPUI without me. Unbelieveable!
2008-12-20 17:51:46
187.   Andrew Shimmin
I was just about to post that I was rooting for Arizona, and they fumble. So, I guess I'll keep it to myself, instead.
2008-12-20 17:53:04
188.   Indiana Jon
I also take exception to Clayton saying that he didn't hear about the YouTube video after spring training. I specifically asked him about that on April 24th in Huntsville, AL. He even laughed. How could he forget?
2008-12-20 17:53:30
189.   Andrew Shimmin
186- I figured you were off line because your new laptop didn't work. I guess I'm glad that's not the case.
2008-12-20 17:53:58
190.   Bob Timmermann
The Stanford women need uniforms that are cardinal instead of black.
2008-12-20 17:54:42
191.   CeyHey10
Apologies if someone posted on this already, but this is the time of year Ron Shandler's Baseball Forecaster comes out, and it includes a compelling, data-driven projection of a 2009 breakout for Ethier. His power, batting eye, and contact rates (especially vs. lefties) are all trending in the right direction -- and his age, as it turns out, is also trending in the right direction :)
2008-12-20 17:55:30
192.   Indiana Jon
189 I don't get it until Monday. Don't jinx me.
2008-12-20 17:58:41
193.   Andrew Shimmin
192- Ooh; you have an advanced ability to delay gratification if you didn't pop for overnight shipping.
2008-12-20 17:59:48
194.   Andrew Shimmin
How many points in a set of volleyball games?
2008-12-20 17:59:56
195.   Indiana Jon
193 Two day shipping was free on Amazon.
2008-12-20 18:02:26
196.   Andrew Shimmin
195- Two days is way longer than one. But it's a good point; I find my cheapness is often in conflict with my impatience.
2008-12-20 18:02:49
197.   das411
194 , apparently this season they changed from first to 30 points (by two) to first to 25 points. The final game still goes to 15 though...which made PSU's comeback from down 10-8 in the semifinal even more awesome!
2008-12-20 18:03:15
198.   Andrew Shimmin
BYU fumbles, now. I can't see how I could be responsible for that.
2008-12-20 18:03:50
199.   Andrew Shimmin
197- Thanks.
2008-12-20 18:04:05
200.   Indiana Jon
196 I have made it 37 years without a Mac. I'm sure one day (two with Sunday) won't hurt. Plus I had a floor to put in.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-12-20 18:06:57
201.   CeyHey10
Has anyone in here advocated a Kuo/Guo vs. Broxton competition for the closer role? I understand that Broxton's 2008 leaves very, very little to complain about -- I just wonder if Kuo/Guo could maintain his '08 dominance as a closer.
2008-12-20 18:08:07
202.   Andrew Shimmin
Non-Rose Bowl bowl games should only have one half.
2008-12-20 18:27:55
203.   oshea2002
Bob, I'm sorry, I can't stand BYU, and I hope Arizona pounds them.
2008-12-20 18:28:49
204.   trainwreck
It's a sad day for the Pac-10 when a Mike Stoops coached team is in a bowl game.
2008-12-20 18:30:40
205.   Andrew Shimmin
Arizona needs to focusing on not dropping the ball, and on picking it up when the other team drops it. Also, if they started just tackling guys, instead of trying to paralyze them, every play, that could help too.
2008-12-20 18:32:06
206.   das411
Man oh man, this third set is not nearly as intense as the one Thursday night...yet...
2008-12-20 18:32:39
207.   oshea2002
This is tough call between watching the Laker game, the Vegas Bowl, and the D-2 High School Title game.
2008-12-20 18:36:44
208.   Bob Timmermann
The Lakers game will soon be over. My cable system for some reason is showing FSN Prime with a lot of snow.

The Vegas Bowl is heading to halftime.

If you're a truly wealthy person, you can watch the NFL Network.

Some cable systems are giving unadvertised demos of the MLB Network.

2008-12-20 18:39:45
209.   oshea2002
208 - i do have NFLN, but that game's distant on my radar. As a Raider fan, I'm reduced to being just a general "fan", and won't watch NFL games over Pac 10 football or Lakers.
2008-12-20 18:39:48
210.   trainwreck
Or you can get the NFL Network if you live in the East Bay.
2008-12-20 18:40:35
211.   trainwreck
Another shot that rims out for the Lakers.
2008-12-20 18:42:39
212.   das411
Bob, did Jon drive to Omaha to see this in person??
2008-12-20 18:42:48
213.   trainwreck
Raiders really should have drafted Ed Reed over Phillip Buchanon.
2008-12-20 18:42:51
214.   Bob Timmermann
I could walk into my cable system's headquarters with a check for $10 BILLION and they still wouldn't put the NFL Network on.

I believe that the NFL Network is run by the Freemasons.

2008-12-20 18:42:52
215.   oshea2002
Tyler Gaffney has over 300 yards rushing and 5 TD's in the D-2 Title game, and it's not ever over yet.
2008-12-20 18:44:19
216.   trainwreck
Well, so far I Love LA was right about the Lakers.
2008-12-20 18:45:00
217.   trainwreck
No wonder I get it.
2008-12-20 18:45:17
218.   trainwreck
Pretty good for a future fullback.
2008-12-20 18:45:44
219.   kinbote
Are field goals exciting? I always forget.
2008-12-20 18:46:48
220.   oshea2002
The Lakers are a great team who aren't playing well right now. They'll turn it around. Bynum is completely out of shape, and Lamar Odom is beyond pathetic right now - he is killing the team - I think it's time to question how much PT he gets. I feel that both guys will get better, as will the Lakers.
2008-12-20 18:46:59
221.   kinbote
Sorry if I stepped on your cycle, trainwreck. I was clogging up the bases.
2008-12-20 18:48:45
222.   trainwreck
It's fine. I was out of gas.
2008-12-20 18:51:33
223.   oshea2002
218 - Stanford gives their big back a lot of carries, he'll be used properly (assuming he goes there). Carl Smith will figure out what a weapon Havili is and use him similarly next year I bet.
2008-12-20 18:53:27
224.   das411
2008-12-20 19:01:33
225.   trainwreck
Gaffney is a good baseball prospect. Wonder if he will also play that.
2008-12-20 19:04:47
226.   trainwreck
Randall Carroll is announcing. That adds some intrigue.
2008-12-20 19:07:25
227.   oshea2002
226 - Announcing what exactly?
2008-12-20 19:15:20
228.   Bob Timmermann
He's taking Charlie Steiner's spot on the TV broadcasts from the NL East and Central cities.
2008-12-20 19:17:45
229.   oshea2002
Arizona really does nothing right.
2008-12-20 19:18:10
230.   trainwreck
His college commitment. According to people watching the high school games.
2008-12-20 19:21:15
231.   oshea2002
230 - pretty sure he's not, he'll come down to signing day. I heard them mention some track kid is announcing, but nothing on Carroll.
2008-12-20 19:35:27
232.   Eric Stephen
Is the Bing Crosby / David Bowie duet of Lil' Drummer Boy / Peace on Earth the greatest duet in Christmas song history, or history itself*?
2008-12-20 19:40:35
233.   D4P
Does Wham!'s "Last Christmas" count as a duet...?
2008-12-20 19:42:03
234.   Eric Stephen
I don't think it does since they were a group, but that's another great song.
2008-12-20 19:42:10
235.   oshea2002
233 - Did Andrew Ridgely ever do anything meaningful enough to warrant Wham! being a duet?
2008-12-20 19:42:59
236.   Bob Timmermann
If you ever watch any DVDs of Johnny Cash's TV show, there would be a duet each week that would be about 10,000 times better.

In his first show, Cash did duets with Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan.

2008-12-20 19:43:58
237.   Indiana Jon
232 I would say it is. It's also, in my opinion, the second best Christmas song period.
2008-12-20 19:44:05
238.   oshea2002
234 - merry christmas

2008-12-20 19:45:23
239.   Bob Timmermann
I would also suggest:
2008-12-20 19:50:37
240.   Eric Stephen
Pretty classic. Not enough comedic value though. Also, I keep picturing Phil Hartman saying "cue ball, corner pocket." ;)
2008-12-20 19:51:13
241.   Eric Stephen
What is first? Bruce Springsteen's "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" I hope.
2008-12-20 19:51:56
242.   Indiana Jon
241 John Lennon, Happy Xmas. I like Brice to though.
2008-12-20 19:53:16
243.   Indiana Jon
242 Bruce, not Brice. I must have had a "Chuck" flashback.
2008-12-20 19:53:40
244.   Eric Stephen
That's a great song.
2008-12-20 19:53:59
245.   oshea2002
Not a classic Christmas song, but U2's Baby Please Come Home is probably my favorite.
2008-12-20 19:55:08
246.   Eric Stephen
You just brought that up because you like "Girl From North Country." :)
2008-12-20 19:55:48
247.   Indiana Jon
244 Even though it's not originally a Christmas song exactly.
2008-12-20 19:57:49
248.   Eric Stephen
or "the north country"
2008-12-20 19:59:18
249.   oshea2002
Maybe Jessica Simpson can go ahead and book that tropical January vacation after all.
2008-12-20 19:59:20
250.   Gagne55
214 I think they'd know that a $10 billion check from you would bounce.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-12-20 20:06:33
251.   Bob Timmermann
It would be a cashier's check.
2008-12-20 20:07:15
252.   Sam DC
Am I bad American if I put David Bowie/Queen ahead of David Bowie/Bing?
2008-12-20 20:07:35
253.   trainwreck
Put me down for Last Christmas as well.
2008-12-20 20:09:38
254.   Eric Stephen
That's a better overall song/duet, you sir are correct.

Not only is "Under Pressure" a great, great song on its own, but it spawned Vanilla Ice's greatest hit (C'mon, people. Don't pretend you didn't once own "To The Extreme"!).

2008-12-20 20:12:03
255.   trainwreck
I think you are forgetting a little song from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II called Ninja Rap.
2008-12-20 20:12:57
256.   Andrew Shimmin
All the Christmas music I need:
2008-12-20 20:13:44
257.   oshea2002
254 - Ice, numerous times, has clearly shown how the two beats are different.
2008-12-20 20:17:34
258.   oshea2002
It's about all over in Dallas for America's Bandwagon, likely it for that stadium too.
2008-12-20 20:18:18
259.   Eric Stephen
Didn't Vanilla Ice eventually pay royalties to Queen or someone for using their beats, or am I confusing this with the Suge Knight holding him over the railing incident?
2008-12-20 20:18:26
260.   fanerman
255 True dat.
2008-12-20 20:18:45
261.   Eric Stephen
It's a Christmas miracle!
2008-12-20 20:18:50
262.   Sam DC
Other duets I like:

Peter Gabriel/Kate Bush - Don't Give Up
Nancy Griffith/Adam Duritz - erm, something about Georgia I think
John Prine/Bonnie Raitt -- Angel from Montgomery

2008-12-20 20:18:51
263.   Gagne55
Long Beach Poly not looking so good so far.
2008-12-20 20:19:54
264.   CeyHey10
Most offensive Christmas song of all time: that "Do They Know It's Christmastime At All?" piece of ethnocentric 80s cheese. How sad that those starving outta towners lack a basic understanding that it's Christmas...

They may well not "know" it's Christmastime, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT CHOOSE TO WORSHIP IN SOME OTHER WAY. Or not at all for that matter.

2008-12-20 20:23:11
265.   oshea2002
261 - that, or a Festivus one.
2008-12-20 20:24:33
266.   oshea2002
No way they just showed Katie Hnida kicking that ball into the back of her own OL's head in that Vegas Bowl v. UCLA.
2008-12-20 20:24:38
267.   Gagne55
If the Ravens and Jets win out, the Pats could miss the playoffs at 11-5 (not an absurd proposition). Not sure if Miami, Bal, and NE win out.
2008-12-20 20:29:27
268.   Bob Timmermann
Dallas needs to work on a defensive scheme that prevents the other team for running for a touchdown over 75 yards on the first play after they score a touchdown.
2008-12-20 20:30:50
269.   Eric Stephen
I like that song, for both it's comedic value and 1980s style that I'm a sucker for, so I may be biased. I thought the main point of that song was to guilt others into giving money and food to starving people in America.
2008-12-20 20:31:42
270.   oshea2002
268 - McClain did a little dancing at the line, but both guys basically went untouched. Simply pathetic end to Dallas' miserable season.
2008-12-20 20:32:12
271.   trainwreck
Wade Phillips, get your resume ready.
2008-12-20 20:34:51
272.   Eric Stephen
starving people in America

I meant Africa.

2008-12-20 20:37:16
273.   The Trolley Dodger
Gah! Best Xmas duet ever:

The Pogues, Fairytale of New York, with Kirsty MacColl and Shane MacGowan.

2008-12-20 20:39:07
274.   Eric Stephen
I believe the last 11-win team to miss the playoffs was the 1985 Jets.
2008-12-20 20:40:52
275.   Bob Timmermann
BYU is getting paid back for Kai Forbath's blocked field goal last year in this same game.
2008-12-20 20:42:58
276.   Eric Stephen
Good for the Pac-10, bad for my bowl pool. Although I only assigned 2 points to my BYU pick.
2008-12-20 20:44:11
277.   oshea2002
Long Beach Poly is getting manhandled by Grant right now. 14-0, should be 28-0 if Grant had converted their other two Red Zone opp's.
2008-12-20 20:46:05
278.   Bob Timmermann
I have watched Pac-10 football for years. I did not know until tonight that a guy named Mike Thomas had a chance to break the record for most receptions in conference history.

As far as I knew, Arizona has had Willie Tuitama as its starting QB for the past 9 years and that's about it.

2008-12-20 20:47:15
279.   oshea2002
Here come the Arizona students - you won the Vegas Bowl! Go Crazy Folks! U of A! U of A! U of A!
2008-12-20 20:47:21
280.   Eric Stephen
"The Arizona fans storm the field. They have not had this opportunity in a long, long time."

Mike Patrick must not watch Wildcat football!

2008-12-20 20:47:48
281.   Eric Stephen
I don't see Nate on the field.
2008-12-20 20:48:00
282.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the traditional storming of the field by drunken Arizona fans over a minor win in football.

You can set your watch by it.

One day Arizona will do something like beat a #1 ranked team. And then the fans will celebrate by setting off a nuclear device.

2008-12-20 20:49:37
283.   CeyHey10
269 Yes, that was the point. By playing off of our jingoism. Class.
2008-12-20 20:49:38
284.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona football fans have become a parody of themselves.

They make ASU fans look like they attended Harvard.

2008-12-20 20:50:01
285.   oshea2002
This is beyond pathetic on Arizona's part. Imagine if they ever won a Rose Bowl (of course, they'd have to actually, you know, make one)?
2008-12-20 20:51:16
286.   Eric Stephen
One day Arizona will do something like beat a #1 ranked team

Hopefully not on Pete Carroll's watch. In his tenure, USC has lost once or twice to every Pac-10 team...except the Arizona schools. 7-0 against Arizona, 8-0 against ASU.

2008-12-20 20:52:32
287.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona would have made the Rose Bowl if:
1) the officials hadn't blown the call on Brad Melsby's "fumble."
2) the UCLA defense hadn't decided to turn Edgerrin James into the second coming of Jim Brown.
2008-12-20 20:55:43
288.   CeyHey10
U of A splits the Vegas day-night doubleheader.

Which is better than a splitting double night-day headache in Vegas.

2008-12-20 20:55:55
289.   Bob Timmermann
The good people of Tucson can prepare to storm the field and tear down the goalposts next season on these dates:

9/5 - Central Michigan
9/12 - Northern Arizona
10/17 - Stanford
10/24 - UCLA
11/7 - Washington State
11/21 - Oregon

Arizona plays 3 schools next year with a direction in its name. The Wildcats will win just two of them.

2008-12-20 20:56:32
290.   oshea2002
287 - that was my freshman year at USC. Every year, I pick a team to despise, and that year it was Kansas State. Needless to say, that Saturday was one of my favorite college football days - ever. You had to know UCLA was living on borrowed time, but I never saw K State's choke coming.

Seeing the U of A team just devastated watching the UCLA / Miami game was priceless too.

2008-12-20 21:00:47
291.   Bob Timmermann
Kansas State is reportedly trying to get out of its contract with playing UCLA. Bill Snyder returns and he's got some I-AA teams to beat up on.
2008-12-20 21:04:27
292.   Eric Stephen
Pretty good for the NFL that the top two teams in each conference are playing each other tomorrow.

Classic. A couple of my uncles -- who grew up on a farm in Kansas -- are Kansas State fans and love to needle the USC fans/grads in the family that Pete Carroll is 0-2 against Bill Snyder.

2008-12-20 21:07:28
293.   oshea2002
We were totally overmatched in 2001. If Mike Williams hadn't dropped 14 passes in the 2002 game, maybe we would have won.
2008-12-20 21:09:29
294.   Tripon
Who knew that Mike Williams would totally bust out after missing a year of NFL football? His agents gave him some really bad advice telling him to jump early.
2008-12-20 21:10:36
295.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Williams fared better than Maurice Clarett.
2008-12-20 21:13:29
296.   Tripon
The Saints are 1-6 on the road. They play at Detroit this Sunday against the 0-14 Lions.
2008-12-20 21:16:05
297.   oshea2002
Mike Williams has zero work ethic.

291 - not surprising at all. I hate the K State's, Iowa's, and Wisconsin's of the world that duck everyone.

2008-12-20 21:16:55
298.   Eric Stephen
I know ultimately it was Mike Williams' decision, but I have to think he blames Clarett somewhat for his action.

I thought Williams would be great in the NFL. If I remember correctly, so did Mel Kiper, Jr. Kiper was defending him during the NFL draft, and made some comment like "we'll see him in the Hall of Fame." Bill Tobin probably really enjoyed the fact that Kiper was wrong.

2008-12-20 21:20:13
299.   oshea2002
Kiper is an easy target, but he's generally pretty decent. Light years better then Todd McShay. I'll take Mike Mayock over both of them.
2008-12-20 21:21:46
300.   Eric Stephen
I like Kiper a lot, even on ESPN Radio as a general co-host about other sports. He seems to have some sort of reason behind his opinions, and does his homework.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-12-20 21:25:24
301.   oshea2002
300 - yeah, much like Herbstreit and Gottlieb he actually does know stuff about other sports.
2008-12-20 21:54:42
302.   mintxcore
to continue Xmas Music Thoughts...

here are a few of my favorite holiday jingles:

Atom and his Package - What We Do On Christmas (plus the dude in that image kinda looks like an old McCourt!)

then of course Patrick Swayze Christmas

"Whispering Christmas Warrior" are you ready to get merry??

and of course, Yingle Bells.

2008-12-20 22:13:10
303.   KG16
169 - Pasta Mia in Vegas? Whereabouts? I'll be there next week for new years
2008-12-20 22:28:35
304.   Tripon
Tanyon Sturtze shall rise again!
2008-12-20 22:34:34
305.   Eric Stephen
Is he back to coach in the bullpen?
2008-12-20 22:40:16
306.   Daniel Zappala
This brings back a lot of old memories:

2008-12-20 23:19:58
307.   LoneStar7
In a twisted way I am enjoying the lakers losing at the moment. I am so disgusted with the way they are playing defense, under achieving, and generally lacking intensity. Kobe needs to figure out a way to lead this team and get everyone involved. Its completely pathetic that in Miami Drew's first shot came in teh second half.

Anyway, I get far more pleasure from watching this young kings group work their tails off every night and compete with the likes of NY, San Jose, and Detroit...and if not for crappy goal tending probably win 1 or 2 of em.

I'm bitter tonight, at least the Bruins won...

2008-12-20 23:41:24
308.   silverwidow
It's refreshing to read a bright baseball analyst for once, who also happens to have an excellent podcast available. Don't know who he is, but this is definitely worth the time:

2008-12-21 00:41:13
309.   trainwreck
I seem to have missed out on all the good Pac-10 bashing.
2008-12-21 06:59:19
310.   scareduck
264 - this was ably parodied in "Merry F***ing Christmas" on the South Park Christmas album, "Mr. Hankey's Christmas Classics". Maybe it wasn't directly intentional, but I think that's a legitimate criticism of DTKIC.

273 - seconded.

302 -'s Xmas in Frisko channel is tres cool:

As Rusty would say, it's not for the easily offended, but he plays a wide variety of Christmas music, and most of it is great.

2008-12-21 07:55:49
311.   Gen3Blue
308 Nice link to a thorough, thoughtful workup, silverwidow.
A few notes: In the textpart the Dodgers team batting average should be about 5th in the NL.
Start the audio at about 20 minute mark unless you want to here the nationals problems repeated about 6 times.
2008-12-21 09:01:52
312.   Bluebleeder87
chip off the 'ol block -> [ ]
2008-12-21 10:08:22
313.   Brent Knapp
Christmas Single Thoughts.

Not the best song, but the only Christmas song they have that I know of.

2008-12-21 10:10:09
314.   Eric Stephen
It's snowing like crazy in Foxboro. I love watching football in the snow.

If someone would have told me before the season that during the Week 16 Cardinals-Patriots game a USC quarterback would start I would have guessed Matt Leinart.

2008-12-21 10:13:08
315.   Indiana Jon
314 I switched to that game for that reason only. I love snow and football, except if it's on Thanksgiving and Leon Lett is on the field.
2008-12-21 10:22:24
316.   Bob Timmermann
The problem with the snowy Patriots game is that the Patriots are going to beat Arizona by 30 points or so.
2008-12-21 10:25:58
317.   ToyCannon
My favorite Christmas Song

Ray Davies Rules

2008-12-21 11:28:46
318.   Bob Timmermann
I am a prophet! New England 31, Arizona 0 at halftime!
2008-12-21 11:42:23
319.   kinbote
314 I live midway between LA & SF, so I have SF/STL on right now. Then, I get Raiders and somebody else bad.
2008-12-21 11:44:16
320.   kinbote
318 You probably hacked into the Toaster clock program to make yourself look smart. I shall call you The Griddler . . .
2008-12-21 11:51:18
321.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the SF/STL game is Matt Vasgersian's last NFL game for Fox.

Soon we will all have to put up with him on the MLB Network.

May God have mercy on us all.

2008-12-21 11:52:45
322.   kinbote
I used to have a baseball-related dream where every time I swung I missed. I think Andruw Jones is living that dream.
2008-12-21 11:55:06
323.   kinbote
321 Well, it's on mute so I'm not even getting that sensation. Say that reminds me, is the MLB Network totally unavailable on Dish Network?
2008-12-21 12:15:55
324.   Bob Timmermann
Dish Network didn't pick up Extra Innings, so they weren't forced to pick up the MLB Network.

Time Warner is supposed to have the MLB Network, but my cable system doesn't advertise it and won't tell me what channel it will be on.

It's very strange.

2008-12-21 12:28:46
325.   trainwreck
Raiders are blacked out here. A lot of bad teams are winning today, so that helps our draft position.

A draft position we will just waste.

2008-12-21 12:30:23
326.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego vs Tampa Bay, with 58 total points scored, has a little over seven minutes left.

Miami vs Kansas Cit, with 62 points scored, is still in the third quarter.

2008-12-21 12:33:33
327.   Bob Timmermann
The QBs in the Cincinnati-Cleveland game have combined for 123 yards passing with about 5 minutes left.
2008-12-21 12:45:20
328.   Tripon
There's a chance of the Cardinals signing Matt Cassell as their starter if Kurt Warner retires.
2008-12-21 12:47:49
329.   Bob Timmermann
If you figure in the sacks, the total passing yards in the Cincinnati-Cleveland game was 112 yards.

And both TDs in the game came on passes. One TD catch by the Bengals and one INT return by the Bengals.

2008-12-21 12:49:00
330.   Gagne55
328 I'm guessing the Patriots trade Brady and go with the cheaper Cassell, similar to what they did with Bledsoe.
2008-12-21 12:50:11
331.   Eric Stephen
I will bet any amount of money the Patriots will not trade Tom Brady before next season.
2008-12-21 12:51:37
332.   Tripon
Cassell isn't the QB Brady has to worry about, its the current backup Connell.
2008-12-21 12:52:06
333.   KG16
324 - that's because the MLB Network doesn't actually exist. They'll tell you it exists, but that your service provider doesn't offer it, no matter which service provider you have.

It's kind of like Versus was a couple years ago.

2008-12-21 12:53:07
334.   Tripon
The Pirates are making noise that they're going to start Alverez in low-A, and saying they're being aggressive. Really? Didn't Ryan Braun start in low-A?
2008-12-21 12:54:19
335.   KG16
330 - only if they win the super bowl with this new guy. but even then, i doubt it. Brady is on the same level as Kobe when it comes to trade talk: sure, they'll listen, but unless they give up half the team for him, it's not going to get past "so, you thinking of trading tom?"
2008-12-21 12:56:15
336.   Tripon
335 The slow recovery from Brady's knee injury hurts his value, but yeah, you're right. The wild card is Belichick and if he's willing to cut off his relationship with Brady.
2008-12-21 12:56:54
337.   silverwidow
334 Braun started in the Rookie Pioneer league, then moved up to Low-A.
2008-12-21 12:58:04
338.   silverwidow
I think really talented college hitters should start in A+.
2008-12-21 13:01:31
339.   NWdodger
I'm sure trading Brady would severely impact the Patriot's salary cap. Of course, there is probably going to be no salary cap in 2010.
2008-12-21 13:03:39
340.   Bob Timmermann
My cable channel lineup has a vacancy at 263. 262 is NBA TV (which I have to pay extra for) and 264 is the Tennis Channel (also an extra fee). 270 is also free.

If it's going to be an HD channel, then it might be somewhere else.

2008-12-21 13:10:49
341.   trainwreck
Tom Brady does not have to worry about anyone.
2008-12-21 13:15:31
342.   trainwreck
Stupid Rams.
2008-12-21 13:21:48
343.   Tripon
Huh, Yunel Escobar is represented by the Wasserman Group. How is that going to work for the Braves?
2008-12-21 13:34:09
344.   KG16
340 - I heard that the MLB Network will only be available at the White House, Bud Selig's house, and a diner in Fargo, North Dakota - but only on Mondays, Thursdays, and every other Friday. It's a conspiracy, Bob, a conspiracy.
2008-12-21 13:36:28
345.   trainwreck
Of course, Raiders are doing well when I cannot watch them.

Now we can suck and have like the 7th pick.

2008-12-21 13:42:40
346.   Tripon
160) Pablo Ozuna, UT: Only five players in history have had as many at-bats as Ozuna (677) and drawn fewer walks than his 23. So why, again, is Tony Pena Jr. (18 in 778) a major leaguer?;_ylt=An_FSN2ISgvfSlEALtwUSyoRvLYF?slug=jp-freeagenttracker111008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

2008-12-21 13:43:01
347.   trainwreck
Found a link finally. Now they will start losing.
2008-12-21 13:45:18
348.   Tripon
Jay Glazer of FOX reports that Rams President/G.M. Jay Zygmunt will be fired by Tuesday.
2008-12-21 13:54:51
349.   berkowit28
333 Huh? My cable provider, in Santa Barbara, is Cox Communications. Since Dec. 1, they have been listing MLB network on channel 282, and MLBHD on 770. Both are currently empty, devoid of content, because it's not broadcasting yet. Someone here was kind enough to tell us yesterday that the first day of broadcasting will be Jan. 1, and even what game will be broadcast (WS 1956, Larsen's perfect game).
2008-12-21 14:12:07
350.   Bob Timmermann
The MLB Network is broadcasting on a few systems showing "sneak preview" material.

Or else my friend in Pasadena is lying to me.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-12-21 14:13:46
351.   berkowit28
I'm also pleased to see that Cox will finally be providing a lot more HD Dodgers games, from the look of it. Last summer, all 50 KCAL Ch. 9 games were only on standard def here, no HD, unlike what you got with Time Warner in LA. (And DirectTV doesn't broadcast KCAL up here at all, which is why I stuck with cable.) Since Dec. 1, KCALHD is available on 709. I'll get all these in HD now.

More peculiar is the FSN situation. On Cox last year, there was no FSN HD at all here (unlike in LA Time Warner), only standard def. DirectTV does carry FSNHD here, but then you don't get the KCAL games. However, there was a sort of "secret" channel: a peculair channel called MOJO that was one of the very first HD channels, and a collaboration between several cable networks. I discovered in 2007 that they sometimes showed Dodgers or Angels FSN broadcasts in HD, but never advertised them: in the TV guide, the general network programs were advertised. Last August they finally started showing them in the Guide. But half the time they were wrong: either they'd advertise bit not show it, or show it but not advertise it, or advertise Dodgers but show Angels, etc. And if the game went over 3 hours, or sometimes 3 1/2 hours, it would suddenly fade out to disco dancing in the 9th or extra innings.

Anyway, on Dec. 1, MOJO ceased to exist. Within days, its channel number, 777, is now called "FSNPR" - which sounds promising - FSN Prime Ticket from the sound of it. Most of the time at the moment it's showing "Digital Previews" - ads for On Demand programs. But whenever there's a game that used to override regulat=r MOJO programming - mostly Lakers games, some Clippers and Kings - they show it. It looks like for the moment they're just keeping to whatever contract they had while MOJO was on. But perhaps from Jan. 1 or some later date they'll show either FSN PT in HD or else a lend of PT and FSN West. (All the NBA and NHL games currently being broadcast are from FSN West, not PT.) It's probably too much to hope that they will have both FSN channels in HD, more likely a blend like the FSNHD channel on DirectTV. But you never know. Last year, FSN did 75 Dodgers (out of a 100 total) and same Angels in HD; I winder whether they're expanding to all of them this year. Either way, it looks like I'll be getting far more games in HD this year, and hopefully in their entirety.

End of Santa Barbara cable TV thoughts...

2008-12-21 14:18:56
352.   Bob Timmermann
You would think that the website for the MLB Network would have some sort of finding aid to tell you where the channel will be located on your local cable system.

But it doesn't.

The marketing for this channel is very, very, very odd.

2008-12-21 14:23:42
353.   trainwreck
Bud Selig hates everyone.
2008-12-21 14:29:24
354.   Bob Timmermann
In late November, my cable system (Time Warner) sent me some information on a "new channel lineup" for January 1. The MLB Network wasn't listed.

Anywhere. It's not advertised at all.

I also have a cable system that carries FSN West perfectly, but FSN Prime looks like I'm watching through cheesecloth.

2008-12-21 14:40:56
355.   Bob Hendley
For all you pony lovers.

2008-12-21 14:46:30
356.   caseybarker
Way to go, Trainwreck.

I can't even take joy in a high draft pick for the Raiders anymore.

2008-12-21 14:50:09
357.   trainwreck
Blame the guy who stopped showing feed of game. They start doing well when I can't watch.
2008-12-21 14:56:30
358.   Bob Timmermann
The Broncos seemingly want to make their last game of the season count.
2008-12-21 15:00:36
359.   Eric Stephen
Drew Brees heads into Week 17 with 4683 passing yards. He needs 317 yards against Carolina (in a game that means nothing for the Panthers regardless of what happens tonight) to become the second QB with 5000 yards in a season. He needs 402 yards to break Dan Marino's record.
2008-12-21 15:09:42
360.   Gen3Blue
Geographically, I have to jump on the Patriots bandwagon, at the risk of D4P having a stroke. While the Jets are behind at this moment, I'm pretty sure they will comeback, and we won't get rid of them that easily.
2008-12-21 15:11:23
361.   Bob Timmermann
You can get back in D4P's good graces if you tell him that Joe Montana was overrated and that Bill Walsh's offensive schemes were nothing special.
2008-12-21 15:15:25
362.   KG16
355 - I'm not a fan of country music, but if the rest of her stuff is as bluesy as that, I may be in love.
2008-12-21 15:17:33
363.   Kevin Lewis

2008-12-21 15:18:47
364.   DaDoughboy
I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case as I'll be there next weekend. Quite truthfully the Chargers fans can be pretty brutal toward visiting fans...especially Bronco fans. Regardless it should be a lot of fun.
2008-12-21 15:21:55
365.   Gen3Blue
Joe Montana was overrated as were Bill Walsh's offensive schemes! I hope I'm not being scammed here. D4P is a good piece to have here, as his name indicates. It all gets back to Jody Reed, doesn't it. He may have caused almost a decade of pain.
2008-12-21 15:31:07
366.   KG16
365 - in opposition to this blatant heresy I would like to submit Defense Exhibits 1-6 for consideration: Super Bowl Championships XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV; NFL MVP 1989 and 1990.
2008-12-21 15:31:17
367.   Gagne55
2008-12-21 15:36:36
368.   Gagne55
Joe Montana has the 6th highest passer rating ever. Four of the five guys ahead of him are active players.
2008-12-21 15:36:55
369.   Bob Timmermann
Please remember those opinions were not mine. They are D4P's.
2008-12-21 15:43:50
370.   scareduck
317 - indeed he does.
2008-12-21 15:45:09
371.   scareduck
352 - given that Time Warner didn't assign a channel to TBS HD until AFTER THE 2007 LEAGUE DIVISION SERIES STARTED, there is little reason to think they should.
2008-12-21 15:46:25
372.   I Love LA
The Angels have just took thmselves out of the Tex running and are now going to target Manny instead.

2008-12-21 15:50:17
373.   LU Dodger

big whoop.

let the circus begin

2008-12-21 15:58:56
374.   Bob Timmermann
That's even stranger since Time Warner OWNS TBS.
2008-12-21 16:02:55
375.   scareduck
362 - for those on the "I'm not a fan of country music, but..." train, may I make the following recommendations:

- Tift Merritt; her first album, "Bramble Rose", more than her second, "Tambourine", in which she attempts to reinvent herself as Dusty Springfield. I haven't heard (and don't own) her two most recent efforts, "Another Country" and "Broken".

2008-12-21 16:04:20
376.   scareduck
372 - and the Red Sox are out of the bidding, too. I don't buy it. It's negotiation positioning.
2008-12-21 16:04:21
377.   berkowit28
350 You and your friend in Pasadena are right. Although "No Data Available" is is the guide, MLB TV is showing test runs. Right now it's the 2004 ALCS Yankees-Red Sox; I guess they figure we haven't seen enough of that. ;-)
2008-12-21 16:07:52
378.   berkowit28
350 You and your friend in Pasadena are right. Although the Guide is saying "No Data Avialable", MLB TV is running previews. At the moment it's the 2004 ALCS Yankees-Red Sox; I guess they figure we haven't seen enough of that. ;-)
2008-12-21 16:08:57
379.   berkowit28
Oops. sorry; there was some sort of delay I thought meant I'd clicked the wrong button.
2008-12-21 16:10:38
380.   Gagne55
Over on Downs!!! Bills win!!!!!!
2008-12-21 16:11:31
381.   Bob Timmermann
Right now in the underdog household there is much wailing and moaning.
2008-12-21 16:12:01
382.   berkowit28
372 That's just Rosenthal. Someone should collect all his statements of "fact" and send them to Fox.
2008-12-21 16:21:39
383.   D4P
I'd sooner give credit to Bill Walsh's offensive schematic advantages than to the weak-armed slug responsible for implementing them.
2008-12-21 16:22:05
384.   DaDoughboy
Uggh. As is mine...Well, at least this makes next weekend a bit more interesting.
2008-12-21 16:22:23
385.   I Love LA
Very true, sometimes I wonder where Rosenthal get his information from. Does he just post everything that he hear just so he can be the first to write a story.
2008-12-21 16:26:01
386.   D4P
It seems that Boras always has a "mystery team" in on the negotiations, but his client never seems to sign there


2008-12-21 16:26:06
387.   Bob Timmermann
Look at it this way from Fox's perspective. Rosenthal generates a LOT of material for their website. A lot of people read it whether they like it or not. And a lot of those people see ads on the side. And with all the page views, can tell advertisers "Look how much our site is worth! Pay us a lot to put your ad on."

Rosenthal fills the vacuum in the sports news market for plausibly true news.

What about That doesn't even have any semblance of reporting behind it. And admits it!

2008-12-21 16:27:28
388.   Bob Timmermann
It's like saying "Beetlejuice" three times...
2008-12-21 16:28:44
389.   D4P
Never saw that movie. It looked, in a word, sucky.
2008-12-21 16:35:20
390.   KG16
375 I've been on a bit of a blues kick lately, and have always had a thing for women who sang the blues

372 I thought re-signing Rivera meant that the angels weren't going after manny? Gawd I hate the hot stove

2008-12-21 16:37:00
391.   Dodgers49 now says it is so:

Angels pull out of Teixeira chase

>> The Angels confirmed Sunday that they have pulled out of the bidding for free agent Mark Teixeira's services. Team spokesman Tim Mead said the club would have no further comment today. <<

2008-12-21 16:39:10
392.   KG16
So, can Loney or Tex play left field?
2008-12-21 16:47:56
393.   scareduck
391 - that piece all but charges Boras of negotiating in bad faith. Which, duh.
2008-12-21 16:52:06
394.   caseybarker
Al Davis relishes the fact that he will have helped keep Denver out of the playoffs.
2008-12-21 17:00:45
395.   Dodgers49
The L A Times' article doesn't mention Manny:

Angels withdraw their offer to slugger Mark Teixeira

>> The Angels are expected to go with switch-hitter Kendry Morales at first base. They signed outfielder Juan Rivera to a three-year, $12.75-million deal on Friday.

They could still look to bolster their offense by pursuing free-agent outfielders Bobby Abreu or Pat Burrell, or they could look to trade for a hitter such as Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko or Garrett Atkins.

They will probably use some of the money budgeted for Teixeira to sign closer Brian Fuentes, who is seeking a three-year, $30-million deal and has said that the Angels are his first choice. <<

2008-12-21 17:14:49
396.   berkowit28
It makes you appreciate why Kinzer wanted the Braves' term sheet for Furcal, by fair means or foul. If agents like Boras are going around bluffing (trans: lying) about other teams' offers in an effort to contrive an artificial auction above actual offers, it's really to an agent's advantage to show a team they're hoping to deal with a real offer to match. it looks like both the Red Sox and Angels have said they're withdrawing due to supposed higher offers from other teams, calling Boras' bluff. Some may even mean it.
2008-12-21 17:16:01
397.   Bob Hendley
375 Shelby Lynne did a good job of reinventing herself in her latest of Dusty covers.
2008-12-21 17:29:50
398.   KG16
Boras does not seem to be performing his fiduciary duties very well. How fun would it be to see one of his clients sue him because of all this?
2008-12-21 17:32:57
399.   bhsportsguy
396 Scott Boras has one responsibility, to get the best deal for his client. There are no laws or professional rules that govern what he says either public or inprivate regarding those negotiations.

What anyone chooses to believe is a different matter.

The interesting part here is that no one really disputes the main parts of the publicized offers (8 years/20+ million a year), and I have not read anything to indicate any "mystery" teams involved.

I guess, its just no one likes lawyers, until you need one.

(Sam DC, LAT, KG16, and all other practicing attorneys who frequent DT excepted of course)

2008-12-21 17:33:39
400.   bhsportsguy
398 How so?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-12-21 17:39:45
401.   jasonungar07
Yeah no one is even arguing about the a 160 million dollar contract for a guy who is very good but has never won a darn thing, Never been even a top 5 for MVP, has one less all star app than our own R. Martin..And will never be a superstar type due to his own personality (which is fine).
2008-12-21 17:48:53
402.   Bob Timmermann
In the New Orleans Bowl, Southern Miss is wearing gold uniforms and Troy is wearing red uniforms.

I didn't hear if someone was charged a timeout or if gold passes for a white.

It's not very nice to watch someone's leg break in midair either.

2008-12-21 18:20:12
403.   Jon Weisman

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