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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
In his first official at-bat following his legendary 1988 World Series home run, Kirk Gibson lined a single to right field to drive home new teammate Willie Randolph and give the Dodgers a 1-0 first-inning lead on Opening Day, 1989. Gibson then went to second on an Eddie Murray groundout, stole third base and, with a pump of the fist that called back his '88 heroics, scored on catcher Jeff Reed's throwing error. Four innings later, Gibson homered off 19888 Cy Young runner-up Danny Jackson.
But the Dodgers lost the game, 6-4. Good beginnings, unhappy endings - this was the story of Kirk Gibson's post-1988 Dodger career.
Even before that '89 season opener, there were already signs that Gibson's health was going to remain an issue, wrote Gordon Edes of the Times.
There had been some question whether the Dodgers' heavyweight, Gibson, would be able to go nine rounds Monday. Two or three days ago, Manager Tom Lasorda said he was convinced that Gibson was really hurting, and even after the game Monday, Gibson said he was a "mess." ...
"When I'm on the field I'm going to play hard, I'm going to force myself to play my game. I wouldn't have been out there if I was only going to run half-speed and not steal bases. . . . The other (team) doesn't care if I'm hurting, so when I go out on the field I don't ask for a get-well card."
When he came off the field, however, you could say it was a different story. Gibson played in the Dodgers' first 10 games, the last of which was their home opener April 13 - a game that he had to leave after the sixth inning, Edes wrote.
Trainer Bill Buhler said the Dodger left fielder, whose spring has been marred by knee, hamstring and shoulder problems, complained of being stiff and sore all over. ...
"It's just against my better judgment to continue playing," said Gibson, who even with his injuries has been the Dodgers' most productive hitter with eight runs batted in.
Despite that admission, however, Gibson is reluctant to concede that he will, indeed, sit out a while.
"I don't know that," he said. "I'm not really in the mood to talk about it."
Gibson started four of the next nine games, up to April 25. At that time, he was still managing a fine April for the Dodgers: a .393 on-base percentage and .460 slugging percentage. But his left hamstring locked up on him, forcing him from the game in the fifth inning, and he went on the disabled list for nearly a month.
When Gibson came back, on May 23, he came back strong. He played in 36 consecutive games, starting 35 of them. When extra innings and a doubleheader forced the Dodgers into 53 innings of baseball in three days, June 3-5, Gibson played 44 of them, with an OPS of 1.198. Through June 18, he was still on-basing .391 and slugging .493. The Dodgers were 34-33, but just 5 1/2 games out of first place in the National League West.
But then Gibson's contributions started to plummet. From June 19 to July 22, Gibson turned into a 2008 Andruw Jones: .121 batting average, .195 OBP, .196 slugging, .391 OPS. (If that weren't enough, he was the victim of a carjacking at gunpoint in his driveway after a 2-1 loss to San Diego on June 28, the Times reported.)
On July 23, with his OPS having dropped more than 200 points to .680, Gibson took himself out of the lineup. Wrote Bill Plashcke:
He was weary of fly balls he couldn't chase and fastballs he couldn't rip and ultimately, Kirk Gibson's competitive burn gave him no choice.
After the Dodgers' 8-4 victory over the Pittsburgh Pirates Saturday night, he asked to meet with team officials. It had become obvious, they weren't going to make it easy for him. You don't just bench most valuable players. He would have to do it himself.
So he flatly told them that his legs were killing him. And then he asked them, would they please take him off the roster.
"I don't have the ability to do the things expected of me," Gibson said Sunday after being placed on the disabled list for what could be the rest of the season. "As much as I wanted to tell myself I could do it, as positive as I wanted to be . . . reality is reality."
His problems were officially diagnosed as a sprained medial collateral in his right knee and a chronic left hamstring sprain. Gibson, who missed 27 days earlier this season with a left hamstring injury, translated them in different terms.
"I came back too early from the first injury, I still felt it," he said. "Then it got worse and worse and worse. Now, I hardly have any strength in my lower body at all, and I can't do anything. People who say I don't use my legs to hit, that's not true." ...
Why did Gibson wait until now to force that decision?
"I was trying to deal with it," Gibson said. "I am committed to my teammates. I have a contract, an agreement to give my best effort. I was dealing with this the best I could. I thought I would work through it. I couldn't."
Two weeks later, the Dodgers announced that Gibson would have season-ending surgery on his hamstring, with the hope - underline hope - that he would be ready for Spring Training 1990.
"This is the last alternative I have right now," Gibson told Steve Springer of the Times. "It worries me that this could bother me throughout my career. Everyone knows I want to play the game."
In fact, Gibson was out for more than 10 months, not returning until June 2, 1990. From Mark Heisler:
Kirk Gibson strode back into action Saturday night. He drew several standing ovations and, on the first big league pitch he'd seen in 10 months, hit a towering fly toward the right field seats.
Oh no, it couldn't be. ...
Not this time.
The ball came down in Paul O'Neill's glove, a foot in front of the fence. Kirk Gibson went 0 for 4 in the Dodgers' 8-3 loss to the Reds. If there was hope that he'd limp back out and turn the season around like it was the ninth inning of the '88 World Series opener, that hope did a serious fade. ...
Gibson's surgically repaired left hamstring, which had sidelined him since last July 22, may still be bothering him. His remarks before Saturday suggested something less than perfect confidence in it. ...
His 1990 campaign belatedly began 2-for-23, one walk. Within just a few weeks, trade talk began to surface, with Gibson himself eventually acknowledging he would welcome a move, ideally back to Detroit. In early July, Plaschke reported that Gibson and Dodger general manager Fred Claire shouted at each other in Lasorda's office.
Lasorda's door was closed, but the shouting was loud enough to be heard throughout the clubhouse. Although neither Claire nor Lasorda would comment on the nature of the dispute, it was apparently a culmination of frustration over Gibson's situation on the team.
Coming on the final day before the All-Star break, it provided a fitting end to a fitful first half in which the Dodgers finished with 10 losses in their last 16 games and a 39-43 record. ...
While discussing Gibson's status with him Sunday, Claire reportedly became upset and began scolding Gibson. He reportedly told Gibson that he should think less about himself and more about the team. He accused Gibson of having a bad attitude.
Gibson, who has played out of position in center field this season without complaint, became incensed with the remarks and began shouting. The two men reportedly began stalking each other around the room with Lasorda serving as referee.
When the meeting ended, Gibson left the office to the stares of hushed teammates. ...
It might have hardly been coincidence that around this time, Gibson started to find himself at the plate again. In 32 games from July 1 to August 11, his OPS was .966, propelling him to .867 on the season. It was this surge that appeared to stop the Dodgers from completing a July 31, deadline-day deal of Gibson to the Tigers, for pitcher Steve Searcy (career ERA from 1988-92, 5.68).
And then, suddenly, it was all gone again. Gibson hit no home runs for the remainder of the year, his OPS falling to .573 over the final two months, to finish at .745 for the year. It was an above-average 107 OPS+, so he was hardly a failure, but the glory days in Los Angeles were over.
In November, the Dodgers signed Darryl Strawberry. And on the first day of December, barely two years after his exultant limp around the Dodger Stadium infield, Kirk Gibson signed a free-agent contract with Kansas City.
Ross Newhan penned the epilogue.
Gibson never received an offer from the Dodgers, although Fred Claire, team executive vice president, said Saturday he had informed agent Doug Baldwin that he was prepared to offer arbitration before the Dec. 7 deadline, meaning Gibson could have stayed another year if he had wished.
"With our outfield structure, I couldn't go beyond that," Claire said, adding that he thinks a healthy Gibson will pay dividends for the Royals, and that he is deserving of thanks for his contributions to the Dodgers.
"The Gibson chapter was a success," Claire said. "I don't know if in the history of the game there was a player who signed as a free agent and became a most valuable player the next year. That speaks for itself." ...
Reduced to a part-time role by leg injuries and forced to undergo an experimental hamstring surgery, Gibson batted .213 over the next two years, hitting only 17 home runs. It was a span of frustration that seemed to bottom out in September when Gibson batted .159 with no homers and four runs batted in.
Amid the struggle, frustrated by his slow recovery and by what he felt was a half-hearted attempt by Claire to satisfy his desire to be traded to an American League team near his home, Gibson engaged Claire in a clubhouse shouting match that Claire says was talked out and forgotten the next day.
"Kirk said what he had to say, and I said what I had to say," Claire said. "I have nothing but respect for him."
Speaking by phone Saturday, Gibson said he regarded the Dodger experience as positive, although Los Angeles was the culture shock he expected, and that Kansas City will be better for a country boy.
"I did a lot for the Dodgers, and the Dodgers did a lot for me," he said. "I think we both have our memories."
That just makes me laugh for some reason.
ben
Kirk Gibson : 1988-89 Dodgers :: Manny Ramirez : 2008-09 Dodgers
Maybe.
This pitcher from Cuba (Yadel Marti) apparently has defected, perhaps the Dodgers can pick him up. Wondering if the Dunn conversation is out there to try and move Boras to at least make a counter offer to the Dodgers.
All Claire had to do was go back one year (from 1988)! Andre Dawson signed with the Cubs just before the 1987 season (the collusion offseason) then won the 1987 MVP.
If that's true, it would be quite a sight to see Manny play CF in 2010!
Link got cut off. Here is the full link:
http://tinyurl.com/8ucmxo
Never mind! (/litella)
Thanks Toy for pointing to my Dunn analysis. Fangraphs shows that Dunn has been of similiar value to Pierre over the last few years and I think he'd only be worth a one win improvement over Pierre. I don't think Abreu would represent much improvement over Pierre at all. Although it is nice to see Ned interested in some high OBP guys, I hope the only one we sign is Manny.
Also in regards to Sheets, why not Pettitte? There's been lost of talk about Sheets but hardly any about us getting Pettitte. Yes he had a 4.54 ERA last year, but he got unlucky. He is 36, but he put up a 3.71 FIP in 204 innings last year in the AL East!!! Comparing Bill James and Marcels projections for him and Sheets for 2009:
Bill James-
Sheets: 186 IP 3.46 FIP
Pettitte: 192 IP 3.66 FIP
Marcels-
Sheets: 173 IP 3.61 FIP
Pettitte: 183 IP 3.98 FIP
These are pretty similiar when you consider the fact the projections don't know that Sheets might still be hurt. Now consider that Pettitte doesn't have the same injury concerns, won't cost a first round pick unlike Sheets, and could likely be had on a one year deal where Sheets will probably get two or three years. I'd be happy with either one of them, but given the choice, assuming similiar AAV of contracts, I'll take Pettitte in 2009. He is easily worth the 10M or so we'd spend on him for 1 year.
Pettitte's Marcels projection comes out to about +31 runs, meaning 3.1 wins above replacement (WAR). Thats worth about 15M on the free agent market, so we could pay him that if we have to. Keep in mind Lowe's Marcels projects him at about 3.5 WAR, so we are nearly replacing Lowe, but with much less risky deal (1 year instead of 3 or 4). I we could get Manny on a 2 year deal and Pettitte, with maybe another very cheap backend starter if there's payroll room, I think that would be a great offseason.
Magic doesn't happen twice. Just ask Magic.
And if it does, we no longer consider it magic.
I really loved the juke on Spreewell though.
Dodgers: $82M/$118
As: $70M/$47M
Padres: $71M/$73M
Red Sox: $156M/$133M
Yankees: $83M/$207M
In other words, for example, the As got $70 million worth of players for only $47 million, while the Yankees paid $207 million for only $83 million worth of players.
I would be a fan of acquiring Pettitte for one year. Low risk and probably worth the money.
222
214
215
204
And with him being 37 in the middle of next season...that's a lot of wear and tear on the arm.
http://mikesciosciastragicillness.com/
That memory alone made the signing worth it to me! So if they sign Manny to 3 years and we get to just 1 World Series because of it with an opportunity to win, it will be worth it as well, IMHO!
As opposed to Detroit?
Also being the victim of a "follow home" robbery probably didn't exactly sweeten the experience for Gibson.
Btw, speaking of Fred Claire, here's some blah blah from him on next year's "thin free agent class":
http://tinyurl.com/9cf6j3
I really liked Gibson. He was no nonsense and always gave his best. Maybe he should have sat sometimes when he played but he always gave it his best.
My all time favorite Dodger name. Kal always seemed to be on the cusp of something great. He was my fave player in the era that preceded Piazza and the rest of the ROY bunch.
He had a great 1990 season if I remember right. Hit a bunch of grand slams...
Again, off the top of my head, I would put Duke Snider, Eddie Murray, Ozzie Smith, Tony Gwynn, Daryl Strawberry in that discussion, who else am I missing?
Barry Bonds was born in Riverside.
Don Drysdale and Bobby Doerr are both in the Hall of Fame.
Can't believe I didn't think of that one.
Darrell Evans was from Pasadena. Dwight Evans was from Chatsworth.
I had a question about Dunn's WAR the last 4 years compared to Pierre's. I'm not too educated on WAR so please explain to me. 3 of the 4 years Pierre has been judged as a CF'er, if he were indeed to start for the Dodgers it would be as a LF'er. Wouldn't Dunn as a LF'er be much more valuable than Pierre as a LF'er?
They were just saying Hi back to fellow Woodland Hills alumni Robin Yount. Not meant to be included in the BH conversation.
The post you are referring to was written by BaBlue not by me. You can address the question to him in the TBLA comment section or maybe he will see it here and answer it.
http://tinyurl.com/a63xzr
Forgot about that tool. Using that tool and Los Angeles, CA as the drafting city gets you a list that might answer the BH question post 1965.
Chet Lemon was a good player for a long time.
Ole friend Rick Auerback was from Woodland Hills. Cool tool.
I don't mean to blow off your question, I'm just not the WAR guy. Andrew did the heavy lifting on that stuff, I was just supposed to be filler and fluff. Eric should be able to answer your question without getting a headache.
Wolf, Garland, Sheets, Dunn, Abreu
Abreu: 2/$30M
I wouldn't offer the pitchers more than two years.
How many other teams are looking to fill a vacancy and can pay over 10Mill per season for anyone not named Mannny that can fill the LF or DH role?
Currently I see the Cubs, Mets, Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, and maybe the Rays as being players for these guys. Other then Manny does anyone really need to go 15 Million per year for any of these guys given the market? It will be interesting to see where they fall and for how much. It might be best to be the last team standing instead of being proactive.
Penn State fans. Almost all of them in shorts. They seemed quite happy.
Oh yeah, LA Live.
vr, Xei
They were all waiting for the F Dash bus which would take them to Staples, LA Live, or even to enemy territory at USC.
Working in Junction City, living in Springfield...
Some guys have all the luck!
The streets don't close until 8. Just stay off of Colorado and you'll be fine.
We gave all that up to live in Modesto CA.
I think it was called the Scandinavian festival, which first introduced me to the delicacy called something like "frijo", which were similar to what I now know as elephant ears, churros, etc.
Yum!
Dusty Baker was also born there...
My wife and I derisively call them "Meshugga-nites" (Michigan-ites)
Bob, did you read the story about the tolls that the San Francisco Transit Authority wants to set to enter and leave the City.
But then again, you'll never go there so it probably doesn't matter to you.
Yeah as Xeirank said Pierre would lose positional value going from CF to LF but LF is an easier position to play (he is compared to guys like Manny, Burrell and Holliday instead of guys like Ellsbury, Victorino, and Tavares) so he should gain the value back in fielding. I personally think Dunn is only one win upgrade over Pierre but I didn't do the calculations like Xeifrank.
82,
So you have Pierre at -0.63 WAR without the baserunning?
1. At a coffee shop in South Pasadena wondering why there is a picture of Manny Ramirez by the register.
2. "Hooters" on Colorado (in Pasadena) rooting against the other Big Ten schools.
3. On the Gold Line wondering what you can eat in "Chinatown."
4. Looking for places to stand for the Rose Parade.
4.
And not for nothing, but we have the "Best Player from LA" discussion at least three times a year on DT, and every time, people forget to mention George Brett. I'm starting to think you people are biased against El Segundites.
Presumably he was smaller then.
I believe Gerald Laird is the CIF Southern Section doubles leader.
Then again, you're no fun.
I know. But it's genetic.
Don't know how legit this site is, but LaPorta is ranked #7 and Santana ranked #79 if that makes anyone feel better.
I didn't know Billingsley got attention.
I would definitely avoid that at Mac Court.
The closer you sit to the student section, the less "safe" you're likely to be.
Though the worst that might happen is some verbal ribbing. Their relative youth would probably render them immune.
Dodgers fans used to be really mellow too.
Most people who attend Oregon basketball (and football) games are not hippies.
Yes. They are high-middle-class suburban kids that try to change in college, but really aren't that different.
This transition was represented symbolically with the replacement of Donald Duck with the new "O" on Duck paraphernalia.
http://tinyurl.com/goodoregonunis
http://www.southwest.com/landing/vegas_50off.html?src=e123008
Now that is a good term.
But the Texas Bowl doesn't really exist because:
1) it's the Texas Bowl
2) it's on the NFL Network
I hear it's all being staged. Sort of like "Capricorn One."
My employer informed us that going forward, due to economic hardship, they will no longer contribute to our dental or vision insurance or match funds contributed to our 401k. In addition, they're freezing hiring and wages.
They've also lowered the contribution to our medical insurance to 35% from 50%.
Meanwhile, Andruw Jones will make over $22 million this year.
vr, Xei
vr, Xei
Shanahan fired in Denver!!
Now on ESPNews.
Can you definitively find a coach that is that much better than the man you let go? If the answer is "no," then firing is a scapegoat move.
I'm rather surprised to see Shanahan let go. I know the Broncos had a big collapse down the stretch, but firing Shanahan seems like a panic move.
We can't blame Shanahan for the Broncos' complete lack of defense. Unless Shanahan himself had that much control over signings and trades, I'm surprised the Broncos would suddenly ditch Shanahan now.
Perhaps there is another dimension I overlooked?
I think they did not want him to be in control of personnel anymore and Shanahan is not the type of guy that would be happy about losing that control.
...as in perhaps Shanahan has never won without a QB named Elway...
If the answer is "no," then don't pay him/her $4 million a year.
Tannenbaum and Mangini were close so a change at GM with the Jets isnt out of the question.
146 it would suck for a lot of us
chargers.com
I was sort of a defender of Shanahan's in Denver, among the nuts who post on the Denver Post's site, but definitely think he was past his prime. And to think, here I was naiively calling for another defensive coordinator firing. Well, that will fortunately still come next.
Anyway, this may or may not surprise you, but a lot of people in Denver will be happy. I for one will be more happy if the Cowher rumor is true. I love Cowher. I also like gary Kubiak.
Wow. Crazy.
1) Pick your Favorite number between 1-9
2) Multiply by 3 then
3) Add 3, then again Multiply by 3 (I'll wait while you get the calculator …………..
4) You'll get a 2 or 3 digit number….
5) Add the digits together
Click on Read More
Using that number, see who your ROLE MODEL is from the list below :
1. Albert Einstein
2. Nelson Mandela
3. George W. Bush
4. Bret Favre
5. Bill Gates
6. Gandhi
7. Brad Pitt
8. Abraham Lincoln
9. Me
10. Barack Obama
I mostly agree with Logik, I don't get scapegoating him, I would've fired Bob Slowik, but think Train is right, they probably want a real GM in charge, as they should, and Shanny probably wouldn't let go of that so this was the only way out. It's probably for the best, but still makes me a little bittersweet.
If 1 = 9
2 = 9
3 = 9
4 = 9
5 = 9
6 = 9
7 = 9
8 = 9
9 = 9
Charles Barkley should be on the list.
Poor math skills.
Does this mean Al Davis is done signing washed up Broncos?
Neither has any other coaches in the NFL (as head coaches anyway) except for Bill Bellichick, Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren and Jon Gruden. I'm rather suprised so many people think Shanahan should be fired considering (as Logikreader suggests) the Broncos can not find a better coach out there (except Cowher but he's not moving to Denver.) I find it laughable how every NFL team wants these young and inexperienced coordinators (see Spagnoula, Steve) who have only been coordinators for 2-3 seasons.
Everyone is so beaten down, they actually want to keep Cable at this point.
I would not like it, but frankly, it does not matter who our coach is.
174 true, but that never seemed like a good idea to me.
Is it safe to say the Raiders could have achieved the same 5 wins if Al had the full support of Lane Kiffin and just left him alone?
I know that would blow Al's mind, but I was convinced the Raiders had a decent running game and a fairly good pass defense. The way they played in the two games before Kiffin left was reasonably impressive.
If Al let Kiffin bring in his dad and let him pick the players he wanted, who knows where we would be. Probably a lot better off.
Then Al would make sure to get rid of Lane regardless, because he wants all the credit.
The only thing I know is Mike Shanahan won't be considered.
Huh, Marquis in Coors Field. That doesn't sound like a good idea.
http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/30/usc-coach-drills-team-on-current-events/
190 - Without looking it up, I have this vague notion that I saw one of those hits at Dodger Stadium. Now I'm going to look it up and see how wrong I am.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=abbotji01&t=b
There was a video on scout last year of Uona getting interviewed. It might be the most depressing thing I've ever seen. In the TMZ thing, i love the dude who just says "I don't know, i'm just a meat head."
I guess one handed batters were Jon Lieber's weakness.
The one that can't play defense.
Or is that all of them?
Yeah, I heard him interviewed a few times. On Scout a couple times and once on FSN.
This is why I was not surprised to see him pop up on the video.
On the typical Oregon hideous scale of 1-100 (100 being most hideous), I would give it a 60.
Boras contacts Manny.
never mind.
The Dodgers have handled the Manny situation very well up to this point.
http://tinyurl.com/aypmdp
Hilarious - LOL!
The thing that makes it so funny is that it's the truth.
Gibson homered off 19888 Cy Young runner-up Danny Jackson
Raiders should keep Cable because:
- no one known to be a better head coach will come here.
- team played hard for him.
- Offense talent on team is young and blossoming, making continuity with the staff important (unless the staff is horrible, but that's not the case here).
- O-Line played great once interim o-line coach bolted to Tennessee and Cable took on that job again.
So long as Ryan leaves, this should be an 8-win team.
Well the o-line was better because Kwame Harris was benched. Still need to get another tackle and Carlisle will leave as free agent.
The tough position to evaluate is DT. Could use an upgrade, but there already is depth (though average), and Kelly is expected to improve with a full football off-season undevoted to rehab time.
1st round RT, 2nd round LB? Or flip flop because you can find zone-blocking right tackles in the 2nd round. How good is Maualuga? Worth the 7th pick?
Have to take best player available. Also depends on what we do in free agency and trades.
https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/765174.html
I would expect our targets in first would be Crabtree, Oher, Orakpo, and maybe Johnson, just because Al will love his athleticism.
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