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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Pickin' Teams
2009-01-24 12:43
by Jon Weisman

True Blue L.A., now co-led by Dodger Thoughts friends Eric Stephen and ToyCannon, is picking an all-time Los Angeles Dodger lineup, starting with the leadoff spot. Go vote!

* * *

Keith Thursby of the Daily Mirror looks at the final days of Los Angeles' Wrigley Field.

* * *

The Baseball Reliquary has released its 2009 Shrine of the Eternals ballot. Membership, which includes full voting privileges, is $5.

This year marks the eleventh annual election of the Shrine, a major national component of the Baseball Reliquary, a Southern California-based organization dedicated to fostering an appreciation of American art and culture through the context of baseball history. The thirty individuals previously elected to the Shrine of the Eternals are, in alphabetical order: Jim Abbott, Dick Allen, Emmett Ashford, Moe Berg, Yogi Berra, Ila Borders, Jim Bouton, Jim Brosnan, Bill Buckner, Roberto Clemente, Rod Dedeaux, Dock Ellis, Mark Fidrych, Curt Flood, Josh Gibson, William "Dummy" Hoy, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Bill James, Bill "Spaceman" Lee, Marvin Miller, Minnie Minoso, Buck O'Neil, Satchel Paige, Jimmy Piersall, Pam Postema, Jackie Robinson, Lester Rodney, Fernando Valenzuela, Bill Veeck, Jr., and Kenichi Zenimura.

(The number to the right of candidates' names indicates the number of years on the Shrine of the Eternals ballot.)

1. Hank Aguirre (5)
2. Eliot Asinof (5)
3. Billy Bean (6)
4. Chet Brewer (10)
5. Charlie Brown (2)
6. Helen Callaghan (6)
7. Charles M. Conlon (8)
8. Steve Dalkowski (11)
9. Dizzy Dean (9)
10. Ed Delahanty (6)
11. Bucky Dent (New!)
12. Jim Eisenreich (2)
13. Eddie Feigner (9)
14. Lisa Fernandez (9)
15. Susan Fornoff (2)
16. Rube Foster (11)
17. Ted Giannoulas (7)
18. Jim "Mudcat" Grant (5)
19. Pete Gray (11)
20. Ernie Harwell (6)
21. Judge Roy Hofheinz (New!)
22. Dr. Frank Jobe (7)
23. Smead Jolley (New!)
24. Charles "Pop" Kelchner (2)
25. Mike "King" Kelly (2)
26. Andrew Lampert (2)
27. Effa Manley (11)
28. Roger Maris (5)
29. Dr. Mike Marshall (4)
30. Jocko Maxwell (New!)
31. Tug McGraw (6)
32. "Nuf Ced" McGreevey (3)
33. Fred Merkle (3)
34. Manny Mota (2)
35. Oriole Park (New!)
36. Rich Pohle (New!)
37. Phil Pote (7)
38. Vic Power (New!)
39. Dan Quisenberry (3)
40. J.R. Richard (10)
41. Mose Solomon (New!)
42. Rusty Staub (4)
43. Casey Stengel (11)
44. Chuck Stevens (New!)
45. Luis Tiant (7)
46. Fay Vincent (8)
47. Rube Waddell (11)
48. John Montgomery Ward (3)
49. Wally Yonamine (2)
50. Don Zimmer (5)

Comments (78)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2009-01-24 12:54:26
1.   silverwidow
If Pierre somehow starts the year in LF, there is no way he'll bat 2nd. NO WAY.
2009-01-24 12:56:34
2.   Howard Fox
1 are you stamping your feet
2009-01-24 12:57:25
3.   LU Dodger
Two pictures that make me queezy about Randy Wolf.

Well..the second one is actually funny.

2009-01-24 12:58:52
4.   Kevin Lewis
Is there a place to watch the UCLA game online today?
2009-01-24 12:59:02
5.   silverwidow
2 No, but I bet Torre is - he knows Pierre isn't an everyday player. If he's forced to start him, it'll be in the 8th slot.
2009-01-24 13:00:17
6.   jasonungar07
The idea that Juan Pierre would be anywhere in the starting lineup makes me nauseous even in January.
2009-01-24 13:06:52
7.   Eric Stephen
So leadoff then? :)

Before Furcal went down with an injury in May, Pierre started 18 games:

1 batting leadoff
10 batting 2nd
2 batting 7th
5 batting 8th

Then when Furcal went down, Torre became paralyzed by fear that he had to have Pierre leadoff. Pierre started 49 straight games #1 before he got hurt, then started 7 straight games at leadoff before Manny came along.

I don't think it's hard to see a scenario in which Pierre bats 1 or 2 with a Manny-less Dodger club.

2009-01-24 13:14:38
8.   Kevin Lewis
UCLA basketball live and online? Anyone?
2009-01-24 13:18:33
9.   Eric Stephen
Check for "FCS Pacific." That's where the game is on for me (I have Time Warner).
2009-01-24 13:24:46
10.   Kevin Lewis
I found it via
2009-01-24 13:44:37
11.   Tripon
That image of Jack McCormick says to me that he could have defended himself against Manny.
2009-01-24 14:09:39
12.   Sam DC
My 8 year old son is practicing The Force.

Good that he has a hobby?

2009-01-24 14:13:48
13.   Tripon
As long as he's not dressing up as Princess Leia. Unless you're okay with that.
2009-01-24 14:15:41
14.   trainwreck
Hopefully he is not practicing in order to take over the world.
2009-01-24 14:55:33
15.   Marty
Juan Pierre, the gift that keeps on giving.
2009-01-24 14:58:49
16.   oshea2002
I worry that by waiting Manny out, the other corner OF's will sign elsewhere, and then we could lose Manny last second (for instance if Manny did what Steve Phillips suggested and just went to NYY on a one year deal) and be stuck with Pierre.
2009-01-24 15:02:17
17.   Bob Timmermann
Manny Ramirez is the only person who could follow a plan suggested by Steve Phillips and not appear to be totally insane.
2009-01-24 15:04:04
18.   trainwreck
Man, Coach Howland is not having a good month.
2009-01-24 15:04:06
19.   oshea2002
17 - I still wish he'd start doing those mock GM pressers again.
2009-01-24 15:06:01
20.   Bob Timmermann
Because UCLA might lose two games in month?
2009-01-24 15:07:12
21.   trainwreck
I just think he is making some bad coaching decisions last few games.
2009-01-24 15:08:21
22.   Bob Timmermann
I guess you'd prefer the shrewd decision making of Steve Lavin.

You're sounding like an alum from the Class of 1969!

2009-01-24 15:10:10
23.   Eric Stephen
If this is any consolation, Ken Pomeroy gave the Huskies a 57% chance of winning today against UCLA.
2009-01-24 15:11:00
24.   trainwreck
Sorry, but Ben Howland can be wrong. Just because I think he has made some mistakes, does not mean I do not think he is a great coach.

Sorry, but he does not walk on water. He is not above criticism. I still think he is awesome.

2009-01-24 15:12:26
25.   Bob Timmermann
Howland said at the beginning of the year, that he expects the conference champ to have at least 5 losses this year.

Washington has four straight road games after this one, at the Arizonas and the Bay Area Schools. If Washington goes 2-2 through that stretch, the Huskies will have done well.

2009-01-24 15:12:42
26.   Eric Stephen
Pomeroy also predicts a 53-52 WSU home win, giving them a 54% chance to beat USC.
2009-01-24 15:13:10
27.   trainwreck
At least Ryan Appleby is not around to make losing to Washington feel ten times worse.
2009-01-24 15:15:14
28.   Bob Timmermann
I am not sure what sort of brilliant coaching decision Howland was supposed to make to tell his team not to play poorly down the stretch.

"Hey, you, out there. Don't suck."

2009-01-24 15:17:03
29.   trainwreck
Well, he did exact same thing he said he did wrong during ASU game.

Played his starters forever in second half and they just tire out. He should have also switched Collison off their point guards, because he simply cannot guard any of them. Also needs to open the offense more in general. Not the same type of team as the last few years that can just burn clock.

2009-01-24 15:19:21
30.   Bob Timmermann
And I wouldn't be surprised if Howland uses the exact same strategy in the return matchup in L.A. and UCLA wins by 11.
2009-01-24 15:20:20
31.   trainwreck
2009-01-24 15:21:22
32.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not nearly as pessimistic as trainwreck.

But I went to UCLA when Larry Farmer and Walt Hazzard were coaching.

2009-01-24 15:23:07
33.   trainwreck
You should see BRO right now. They are damning every single player to hell right now lol.
2009-01-24 15:24:43
34.   Bob Timmermann
I don't believe BRO could have existed in an era when UCLA's point guard was Ralph Jackson.
2009-01-24 15:26:08
35.   trainwreck
It was so much simpler when I could just blame everything on Josh Shipp.
2009-01-24 15:28:15
36.   Bob Timmermann
Take solace in the fact that UCLA finishes the regular season at home against the Oregon schools.
2009-01-24 15:34:17
37.   trainwreck
I feel bad for Gonzaga fans, because they are going to lose their coach to Oregon after this season.
2009-01-24 15:38:28
38.   Gen3Blue
I would like to think that we have reached a point in baseball history where no one could be ignorant to the facts that A) a correlation has been proven between leadoff batters on base and victories(albeit for each inning, rather than the game B) the earlier in the order, the more PA's a player gets. If a person can add OBP, there is no way he would dare bat JP in the one or two spot. At least, I choose to think this, so I don't think I have anything to fear.
2009-01-24 16:07:39
39.   underdog
I must be bored, and tired. I'm watching the Senior Bowl pre-game show.

I guess I can watch and pretend I'm a Broncos scout or something. Or I can change the channel.

2009-01-24 16:13:18
40.   Tripon
Here's the thing I don't get about JP and his situation. The Dodgers were willing to force JP to the bench(or at least left field) last year when they signed Andruw Jones. Why is this year any different?
2009-01-24 16:22:53
41.   silverwidow
40 Why is this year any different?

It's not; we just need the talent to sign on the dotted line...

2009-01-24 16:23:45
42.   trainwreck
I totally forgot that game was on.

Thanks for the reminder.

2009-01-24 16:25:45
43.   D4P
Saw "The Wrestler" tonight. Didn't dislike it, but kinda felt like it was one big cliche of the typical elements of its genre. There was really nothing in it that was unpredictable, and nothing all that unique (other than the wrasslin' stuff).
2009-01-24 16:29:35
44.   underdog
43 - Ah well. I thought it was one of the better character studies I've seen in a long time and beautifully acted. Thought the interactions were really human -- it's not the story, it's the moment to moment. Just mho. Btw, I'm looking forward to that film's screenwriter's new film, which he wrote and directed, called Big Fan, with Patton Oswalt in a mostly dramatic role as a sort of pathetic NY Giants fan.


Yah, Senior Bowl is on NFL Network in case anyone else is interested.

Graham Harrell = not impressive. He'll be a 6th-7th round draft pick, maybe.

2009-01-24 16:31:34
45.   D4P
I thought it was one of the better character studies I've seen in a long time and beautifully acted

I agree with that. Mickey Rourke was very good. I think the last time I saw him was "Angel Heart".

2009-01-24 16:32:23
46.   trainwreck
Now that sounds interesting.
2009-01-24 16:37:39
47.   underdog
45 - That may have been the last time he was good, or coherent, too. That and Pope of Greenwich Village are still his best prior to The Wrestler.


(There's a link to a podcast interview with him, at bottom of that review, too.)

2009-01-24 16:43:16
48.   Eric Stephen
Boy, baskets are hard to come by in Pullman today. 38-37 WSU with a USC free throw pending with about 3 minutes left.

Coming into the game, according to Ken Pomeroy (, WSU had the 12th best defensive efficiency in the country, and USC was 15th.

2009-01-24 17:20:43
49.   Megaballs
"The Dodgers are not in the market for "an outfielder," they are only in the market for Manny. I believe they are content, if they can't sign Manny, to have Pierre as the 3rd OF " said Eric Stephen in the last thread.

Hadn't looked at it this way. If thats the gameplan, it does give Ned the leverage to be the last man standing even if Dunn or Abreu go by.

Right or wrong, we must have leverage with Boras in this instance.

And Beetlejuice is that leverage. Thanks for that perspective.

PS must say I'm surprised at the rationalization of a 36 year old man making $20 mil a year pushing down a 60 year old guy.

2009-01-24 18:31:23
50.   Tripon
PS must say I'm surprised at the rationalization of a 36 year old man making $20 mil a year pushing down a 60 year old guy.

Nothing is ever black and white, and the Boston media has been selling the 60 year old man as a frail little dude that could have never defended himself against Big Bad Manny. The image posted in the previous shows that Jack McCormick and the information that he was a former cops at least suggests that he can defend himself, or at the very least retaliate after being pushed down. Not that Manny was in the wrong, but its been seems the whole situation has been blown out of proportion.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2009-01-24 18:48:44
51.   ToyCannon
Whatever happened is between Manny and the employee.

I kind of agree with Eric about LF and Pierre but if that happens the payroll is going to pop in around 85 Million assuming we get one starter. Now that could have just been because Manny was the target or it could also be that Manny was the deception. On January 25th, I still think Manny was the deception but we do have a few more weeks for the McCourts to prove me and the other cynics wrong.

2009-01-24 18:58:38
52.   Tripon
I kinda wish that the Dodgers would give the Andruw Jones contract treatment to Juan Pierre, but then I realize the Dodgers still likely see JP as useful, even as a bench player/4th outfielder, and they won't want to pay $7.5 million in dead money to two outfielders not on the team anymore.
2009-01-24 19:21:19
53.   Tripon
I'm watching the MAJOR anime, an anime series about a Japanese kid's baseball life as he eventually joins MLB, and they're at the World Baseball Cup.(Which is actually based on the first baseball cup, but the new season just started three weeks ago in time for the 2nd WBC.) And for some reason the animators decided to base the Japanese team's uniform on... the Phillies.
Main character in the Phillies/Japan uniform.
Back of the uniform.
Hey, look Hideki Matsui is a Philly now!
Ichiro Suzuki is a philly now too!
Chase in a Philly uniform

2009-01-24 19:40:25
54.   Dodgers49
More of the Bowa interview per Diamond Leung:

>> "If you give him a two- or three-year contract, will Manny go back to being Manny? I can't sit here and tell you, 'no he won't,' but I will say that he shocked me on the behavior that he had with us the last two and a half months."

2009-01-24 19:59:14
55.   CeyHey10
Speaking of a boys-to-men trajectory (from last post):

USMNT puts together a highly professional and impressive performance tonight in Carson vs. Sweden. The fact that our youthful "B" team put their youthful "B" team to shame speaks volumes on how much deeper US Soccer has become. Final was 3-2 good guys, but the score didn't reflect the match -- we dominated almost the entire game (and dominated technically -- a rarity for a US team). Last summer, I went to the Sweden-Spain Euro '08 game, where the Swedes gave the eventual champs all they could handle... so it's refreshing to see us completely outclass a team that competes at the highest level internationally. Here's to quality youth!

2009-01-24 20:02:14
56.   CeyHey10
I can't believe that the current Ben Sheets terms are allegedly 2/$16M.

Carlos Silva should feel shame :)

2009-01-24 20:04:40
57.   trainwreck
I guess Margarito needed that that padding in his gloves.
2009-01-24 20:05:10
58.   alex 7
Manny being Manny, which I assume means something like Manny at 75% efficiency, is still one of the best hitters in the entire league.

Manny was being Manny while he carved out his HOF plaque in Boston.

2009-01-24 20:15:53
59.   alex 7
Manny was blamed for dogging it last season before he was traded.
For those who may not have seen a similar argument:

His June '08 OPS = .910.

His July '08 OPS = 1.060

Trading deadline = July 31

2009-01-24 20:16:54
60.   D4P
Didn't Manny "dog it" more on defense than on offense...?
2009-01-24 20:18:44
61.   Eric Stephen
I'll be right back. I'm going to go repeatedly punch Barbaro.
2009-01-24 20:19:48
62.   Tripon
60 And for not running hard and fast enough to first base. Which he was doing for the last 7 years and a half years with the Red Sox.
2009-01-24 20:27:11
63.   D4P
Too soon.
2009-01-24 20:31:50
64.   ToyCannon
Sure, but he did it during his peak years not during his decline years. I still think Dodger fans are blinded by his two month spellbinding performance and ignoring the realistic expectations of his age 37-39 seasons.

Is there a better comp then Sheffield who is now 39? At age 36 he put up his 14th straight 130 plus OPS+ season. Age 37-39 we are looking at 107/120/90. Manny should be better because he was but I just think the expectations are not going to be met if we snag him.

2009-01-24 20:41:37
65.   trainwreck
And Fedor wins again.
2009-01-24 20:45:23
66.   D4P
I'm always nervous when he fights, and then always feel stupid for being nervous.
2009-01-24 20:49:58
67.   trainwreck
He was losing in that round too. Then just bam! Over!

Not quite Vitor level though. That was the most brutal knockout I have ever seen in MMA.

2009-01-24 20:52:09
68.   jasonungar07
I am blinded more by Juan Pierre getting 600 at bats
2009-01-24 20:53:09
69.   Eric Stephen
Geez, the Sheffield comp seems so obvious it's kind of scary. Since you were right with Kent (I still owe you BTW) you have dampened my Manny enthusiasm.
2009-01-24 20:56:24
70.   trainwreck
I have hope that Manny is just a better and more complete hitter, while Sheffield relied on crazy bat speed.
2009-01-24 21:00:58
71.   alex 7
Manny does go the other way as well as anyone, so good point trainwreck.

I'm not expecting MVP numbers, but I am annoyed by the popular yet haphazard fear (expressed by Bowa up there) that if Manny isn't paid 1 gillion dollars, he's somehow going to turn into Alex Cora.

2009-01-24 21:02:34
72.   alex 7
We're not just paying him to give us Manny (even in decline) numbers, we're paying him to not be stuck with Pierre numbers instead.

And for the joy which that produces.

2009-01-24 21:06:52
73.   alex 7
trainwreck, did you see the Raiders schedule next season? Yikes. I know teams change from one season to another, so you can't rely too much on names on the schedule, but we get the NFC East, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore.

Team might improve and still only eeek out 6 victories, especially with a Chiefs team that should improve just based on Pioli and no Herm.

2009-01-24 21:10:01
74.   trainwreck
Yep. Not like I had any hope anyways.
2009-01-24 21:13:52
75.   Tripon
Somehow, Carlos Silva was worth $6.6 million in 2008.

2009-01-24 21:18:04
76.   trainwreck
We still do not even have a coach yet. Just pure insanity.
2009-01-24 21:20:42
77.   Eric Stephen
73 ,74
Also, since the Raiders were 3rd in the AFC West, they get the 3rd place finishers in in other AFC divisions they don't play. For 2009, that happens to be the Jets and Texans. Those might be tough ones next year.

Oh well, 2010 brings the AFC South and NFC West. But by then, those divisions might be strong (the AFC South already is).

2009-01-24 21:31:49
78.   Jon Weisman

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