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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

May 1 Open Chat: This One's for the Lively Boys
2005-05-01 10:59
by Jon Weisman

Today's Game

* * *

The commenters steal the spotlight. Thanks to Tim Brown of the Times for noticing, and to Bob Timmermann for starting it all. (Bob - do you know where you posted the original reference to "Ghame Over?")

* * *

See that last sentence above? When I was in school, I was taught to put the question mark inside the quotation marks. But now I notice that most people would put it outside the quotes. Anyone have a definitive take?

* * *

Steve King, the other guy in Dennis Cozzalio's tale cited here Saturday, has a short postscript at Hey, Ho, Argento!

* * *

Central Lima Time?

* * *

Postgame update: I'm surprised people questioned pinch-hitting for Derek Lowe in the sixth inning today, since in his last start, people (not just me) felt that the Dodgers should have pinch hit for him, also in the sixth inning:

Lowe was pitching well today, but it was a close game and some extra runs would have been nice. It was debatable then and debatable now, but I think given that the bullpen has been strong, it was a good move to take Lowe out.

I am reluctantly going along with the question mark outside the quotes - though I knew, as Rob McMillin said in comment #29, it had to be a fairly recent phenomenon in this country. I still think the logic is not as perfect as people think. In this sentence ...

I would like to sing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game," but first I must gargle.

... I've never seen anyone put the comma outside the quotes.

As for serial commas, I omit them whenever there is no confusion. Plain and simple. You don't need to have one here, here and here. You can figure out when you need it. That's AP style, isn't it? Give me AP style over Chicago any day.

Oh yeah - baseball site, right?

Comments (294)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-01 11:18:41
1.   gvette
Better to be a "Lively Boy" posting comments at Dodger Thoughts, than a blockhead writing a column for the Times sports page.
2005-05-01 11:32:08
2.   LAT
Jon, I too was taught to put the question mark inside the quote. But I have had disagreements with attorneys in drafting documents and motions who insist it goes on the outside.

Lima throwing a no-no through 5

2005-05-01 11:34:03
3.   Blue Crew
I also was taught to put the question mark inside the quotation mark. Then again, who am I?


2005-05-01 11:38:09
4.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know where I first wrote "Ghame Over". Probably was in the second or third game open chat.
2005-05-01 11:39:59
5.   LAT
Don't tell Lima I'm the one who jinxed him.
Lime gives up HR before I even finished typing this post.
2005-05-01 11:41:19
6.   Bob Timmermann
It was in the "Rest for the Weary" thread.

Comment #17 I believe.

2005-05-01 11:43:53
7.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

May 1, 1893

3,000 people showed up at Boundary Park in Washington to watch the hometown Senators rout the Brooklyn Bridegrooms (as they were called that year for their large number of married players), 15-2. Washington pitcher Al Maul would earn one of his 12 victories on the year (against 21 losses) while George Haddock got rocked for the loss (he finished 8-9)

The loss dropped Brooklyn to 1-2 on the young season in the 12-team National League. Eventually Brooklyn would finish in a tie for sixth with Cincinnati with a 65-63 record (despite being outscored by 70 runs on the year), 20 ½ games behind pennant winning Boston.

The biggest change in baseball in 1893 was moving the pitching distance back to its present-day distance of 60'6". The change made offensive totals soar. First place Boston scored 1008 runs in just 131 games, an average of 7.69 runs per game. Overall, the league averaged 6.57 runs per game.

The 1893 Brooklyn squad had a lot of players that we don't know much about. But there were two Hall of Famers on the team. One was an old player toward the end of his career in Dan Brouthers and another just starting out, a young Willie Keeler, whom the Giants sold to Brooklyn in July. Keeler didn't stay long as Brooklyn sent him to Baltimore in 1894 where he had his best years.

Thanks to Retrosheet, and the NY Times

2005-05-01 11:47:41
8.   LAT
Poor Lima just gave up another HR and 5 runs this inning.
2005-05-01 11:49:43
9.   LAT
That's rough: throw a no hitter through 5 innings, give up two HRs in the 6th and get a no decision
2005-05-01 11:51:14
10.   Borchard504
I hadn't read the LAT Brown article - what caught my eye, was the last few sentences. Curt Schilling, wow. Maybe when he retires he can author a self help book, "How to not make friends, but make enemies".
2005-05-01 11:57:51
11.   Eric L
My best friend has a master's in English Composition. I asked him about the question mark/quote thing a few months back and he said there really is no definitive answer. He did say that moving the question mark outside of the quotes has become more common.

Of course, as with all writing questions with hazy answers, the fall back response is "It's a matter of style"

2005-05-01 12:05:59
12.   patsweetpat
I don't post enough to really qualify as one of the Lively Boys, but it's nice to be in such close proximity to same. Congrats, Bob. Congrats, Jon.
2005-05-01 12:06:20
13.   Tommy Naccarato
Call it Lima Bean Time....

Congrats on the exposure--this is your 15 minutes. Use it wisely! :) (Speaking of which, Iwish I could find the time to hang around here for at least 15 minutes! Right now, I'm off to Costco. UGH! (Hopefully I'll see TJ Simers there. It's his Costco too!

Great memorial this morning by TJ. You almost wish that's the way Plaschke would write once in a while. (Or was it TJ emulating Plaschke?) :)

2005-05-01 12:08:40
14.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob, Did LAPL get the NY Times yet on Pro Quest? I had pulled some articles about the Bridgegrooms from there when I had another way of access, but that subscription ran out.
2005-05-01 12:18:51
15.   Vishal
re: punctuation inside quotes,

i only put it inside the quote if it's part of what i am quoting. i like it that way because it's clearer to the reader, and more intuitive, in my opinion.

2005-05-01 12:19:42
16.   Bob Timmermann
SABR members get a ProQuest subscription that includes the NY Times, LA Times, Atlanta Consitution, Wash Post, Chicago Tribune, and Boston Globe.

I figured it would easier to pick the years at random than finding a game on a particular date. Today is the 85th anniversary of the longest game in the history of Major League Baseball. The Dodgers and Braves played a 26-inning 1-1 tie.

2005-05-01 12:25:48
17.   LAT
Now I know there is such a thing as a "hot hand." Daryl Ward just hit is second HR today. I hated that guy during his stint with the Dodgers. Always blamed everyone else for the fact he could'nt hit.

One other observation: I have MLB extra innings and this is the first weekend I have been home to enjoy it. (Hence, my posts on Lima and Ward.) At any rate as I surf around and listen to the other games I realize how lucky we are to have Vin. He really is the gold standard. Even Stiener is better than most of these guys.

2005-05-01 12:26:24
18.   Odysseus
re: punctuation

There is a definitive answer, and Vishal is correct.

"Question marks (?) should be placed inside the quotation marks if the quoted material contains a question, outside the quotation marks if the question is your own. A question, even if it is rhetorical, requires a question mark."

Thus, "(Bob - do you know where you posted the original reference to 'Ghame Over?')" should be changed to "(Bob - do you know where you posted the original reference to 'Ghame Over'?)".

Unless the usage of "Ghame Over" was actually meant to question Brazoban's ability to close games effectively, in which case, "Ghame Over?" would indeed be correct. But that's not the case.

2005-05-01 12:34:29
19.   Albert in Hong Kong
Looks like Milton has the day off.
2005-05-01 12:35:41
20.   Vishal
sweet, i like being right.

re #17:

here you go, LAT:

i love sending people to that site.

2005-05-01 12:37:06
21.   Bob Timmermann
Today's lineups:
Rockies (be prepared for some really ugly uniforms today)
Miles 2B
Relaford SS
Helton 1B
Hawpe RF
Atkins 3B
Mohr LF
Greene C
Sullivan CF
Chacon P

Izturis SS
Choi 1B
Drew CF
Kent 2B
Ledee LF
Valentin 3B
Repko RF
Phillips C
Lowe P

2005-05-01 12:43:23
22.   Albert in Hong Kong
"Penny threw great." -- Sign above the locker of catcher Jason Phillips, who left before reporters arrived to avoid Fireworks Night traffic.
2005-05-01 12:49:43
23.   LAT
Vishal, great site. Thanks.

Why no Milton today? anyone know?

2005-05-01 12:52:35
24.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably just a rest for Milton.
2005-05-01 12:53:01
25.   Albert in Hong Kong
He's been on a 3-for-20 slump these last 5 games, but it probably doesn't have anything to do with that. I think it's just the day off for now, he should be back for the Gnats this week.
2005-05-01 12:53:58
26.   Odysseus
If you go to mlbTV right now, and click on the Dodger game, there is what appears to be paid-for programming for Core Training, Finley supposedly uses some version ofto keep him in shape at age 40.
2005-05-01 12:57:39
27.   Albert in Hong Kong
Whoa, I'll order it and return the video so I can keep the free ball. Now that is something for nothing.
2005-05-01 12:59:34
28.   Odysseus
Can I just order the video and keep Brooke Burke instead?

Seriously though, does anyone believe this stuff works? Supposedly it did for Finley, but what's wrong with just using weights? Finley swears by this stuff though.

2005-05-01 13:00:59
29.   scareduck
Jon -- either usage is acceptable. Placing the question mark outside the quotes is part of what is now called "rational quoting", a style with its roots in the UK but spreading wildly. Its basis is quite simple and I find myself preferring it in general: if the punctuation was part of what was being quoted, in it goes, else, outside the quotes.
2005-05-01 13:01:10
30.   Bob Timmermann
Hasn't helped Finley much so far in 2005. He's sitting out today against Johan Santana. But the Angels are winning 2-0 despite just having two hits. Both were homers. Colon has given up just one hit through 7.
2005-05-01 13:02:18
31.   Bob Timmermann
But now what is the current trend on when to use commas in a series.

Should it be "Manny, Moe, and Jack" or "Manny, Moe and Jack"?

2005-05-01 13:04:46
32.   Albert in Hong Kong
#28, actually, the magic powder pouch thing that Finley has is what keeps him going.

Colon has been amazing. Only 84 pitches so far in the 8th inning.

2005-05-01 13:08:12
33.   Bob Timmermann
Except now Colon had to leave with an injury after jumping about 6 inches in the air.
2005-05-01 13:09:40
34.   bokonon42
Unless Moe and Jack have a special relationship, not shared with Manny, the terminal comma (also called the Oxford comma; fancy) is non-negotiable.
2005-05-01 13:10:09
35.   Linkmeister
Manny, Moe and Jack. It's a serial comma. Read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" for hilarious examples.
2005-05-01 13:11:18
36.   DXMachina
"Should it be 'Manny, Moe, and Jack' or 'Manny, Moe and Jack'? "

The serial comma is still called for, otherwise you run the risk of confusion in sentences such as "I'd like to thank my parents, God and Ayn Rand."

2005-05-01 13:12:04
37.   LAT
Great an E to start the game
2005-05-01 13:12:14
38.   Bob Timmermann
Didn't somebody ask earlier this week how often someone reaches first on a K-WP?

More often than you would think.

2005-05-01 13:13:28
39.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Great an E to start the game
Not an E. K-WP.
2005-05-01 13:14:46
40.   Odysseus
re: 34

That is correct. Current trends and MLA types might say otherwise, but proper written usage is to always use commas after every item in a list of three or more items (except the last).

Strunk and White, Elemantary Rules of Usage, "In a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction, use a comma after each term except the last."

2005-05-01 13:15:27
41.   Albert in Hong Kong
Derek Lowe, named after Derek Sanderson.

Isn't Jeter's middle name Sanderson?

2005-05-01 13:16:29
42.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Just for laffs: Beltre's current line is 258/284/361. OPS is 372 points lower from last year.
2005-05-01 13:18:42
43.   Bob Timmermann
Indeed Jeter's middle name is Sanderson. Lots of fondness among people for alcoholic jerk hockey stars of the early 1970s.
2005-05-01 13:21:13
44.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Vin just said that run is unearned. I thought wild pitches are NOT factored into whether a run is earned.
Little help?
2005-05-01 13:22:01
45.   Albert in Hong Kong
It's charged to Lowe.
2005-05-01 13:23:51
46.   Bob Timmermann
The DBacks are off to a 2-0 lead in the first in San Diego. The Giants already won today in Pittsburgh.
2005-05-01 13:23:54
47.   Borchard504
Chacon is throwing junk - LA will get their chances.
2005-05-01 13:24:51
48.   Odysseus
Here are the official rules for earned runs (Rule 10.18)

I'm not going to attempt to explain them.

2005-05-01 13:25:01
49.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Choi's outs are either Ks or long flies.
2005-05-01 13:26:16
50.   Bob Timmermann
Since there was no error by the Dodgers in the first inning, the run has to be earned.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-01 13:26:16
51.   Borchard504
Albert - What time do you got? It's gotta be early in the morning there, no?
2005-05-01 13:26:53
52.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
From 10.18(1): "A wild pitch is solely the pitcher's fault, and contributes to an earned run just as a base on balls or a balk."
2005-05-01 13:27:44
53.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
That should be 10.18(a)(1)
2005-05-01 13:28:19
54.   Bob Timmermann
However, errors by a pitcher can lead to an unearned run.
2005-05-01 13:28:37
55.   Albert in Hong Kong
4:28 A.M., inverse of ET, but it's a holiday today, since it's Buddha's birthday.
2005-05-01 13:29:15
56.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Since there was no error by the Dodgers in the first inning, the run has to be earned.
Not necessarily. If the scoring decision on Miles was K-PB, that would've been an unearned run.
2005-05-01 13:30:21
57.   Bob Timmermann
Good point. Forgot about the PB. I need a nap.
2005-05-01 13:42:31
58.   Borchard504
Man, the Dodgers need to sit on that 85 mph fastball Chacon is throwing!
2005-05-01 13:47:36
59.   fanerman91
Seriously. Well, they'll break through eventually. I hope.
2005-05-01 13:48:16
60.   GoBears
Geez, Aaron Miles is living right.
2005-05-01 13:49:14
61.   Albert in Hong Kong
Hmm, Scully likes Bradley better as the centerfielder.
2005-05-01 13:49:59
62.   The Saul
That was an ugly play by JD.
I guess he lost it in the sun.
Doesn't help his "move Bradley to right" cause though.
2005-05-01 13:53:38
63.   GoBears
Doesn't help his "move Bradley to right" cause though.

I haven't heard a peep about Drew wanting to play CF since early in Spring Training. Has he brought it up again recently? Given how well Bradley has played out there, it seems a dead point.

2005-05-01 13:55:38
64.   The Saul
Regarding quotations:

You can quote the question mark if the person is asking a question, like:
"Where's the beef?" asked Betsy
This is as opposed to asking what a person said, like:
Who said "A rolling stone gathers no moss"?

This is how I was taught to use quotes, but then again I am not a writer, so what do I know?

2005-05-01 13:57:26
65.   The Saul
No, I hadn't heard much about it lately either, but that doesn't mean JD has given up on the idea.
2005-05-01 13:59:30
66.   Albert in Hong Kong
Did I just hear boos on Drew? Maybe I heard wrong...
2005-05-01 14:02:35
67.   Odysseus
Where's Teahan's college manager to say "you don't help the team by walking"?

(Notice appropriate use of question mark and quotations.)

2005-05-01 14:02:41
68.   Blue Crew
I think they are say Dreeeeewwwwww.

Sounds like a boo.

2005-05-01 14:03:04
69.   alex 7
so fun watching these patient hitters. Chacon's pitch count is up, and less than half of his pitches have been strikes. ONly a matter of time now for the big blow to come.
2005-05-01 14:04:17
70.   Bob Timmermann
Unless they're hurt, I doubt Tracy would sit Bradley and Drew the same day. So when Milton rests, Drew will play CF. That will likely keep everyone fresh and happy!
2005-05-01 14:04:59
71.   Jim Hitchcock
A hit's as good as a walk!
2005-05-01 14:06:33
72.   DXMachina
MLB Gameday has Lowe charged with an earned run.
2005-05-01 14:07:09
73.   Albert in Hong Kong
Hmm.. a few years back, I remember I thought Seattle fans were booing Bret Boone. I hope I'm not too stupid to think that when fans cheer for Luke Walton (unlike some writer from the Times).
2005-05-01 14:08:10
74.   Odysseus
71, I know that, but apparently not everyone does.

Very interesting article from Michael Lewis in last Sunday's New York Times Magainze

2005-05-01 14:09:30
75.   alex 7
come on, gotta get more than one here. Lowe's picked up Perez's '04 run support.

regardless of what happens, we might see the Rockies' bullpen by the 5th or 6th.

2005-05-01 14:11:51
76.   Albert in Hong Kong
Ironically, I think if Kent didn't hit that single so hard, Izturis would have been waved in.
2005-05-01 14:11:56
77.   LAT
There is no question D Lowe is this years O. Perez
2005-05-01 14:13:00
78.   Steve
Just throwing this out there, but why is Valentin hitting ahead of Repko and Phillips anyway? Or Lowe for that matter.
2005-05-01 14:14:15
79.   Blue Crew
I agree. Kent's shot was smoked.
2005-05-01 14:14:46
80.   Albert in Hong Kong
Cora who? Nice play, Jeff.
2005-05-01 14:15:15
81.   LAT
Cora would have gotten rid of the ball faster
2005-05-01 14:16:30
82.   Borchard504
Great comment by Vin -... "if he had tried to throw it, the ball would have ended up in Pasadena"
2005-05-01 14:16:45
83.   LAT
Albert, holiday or not I'm impressed your watching the game at 4:30 am.
2005-05-01 14:18:10
84.   Linkmeister
Is there anything more frustrating than a bases loaded less-than-two-outs inning resulting in only one run?
2005-05-01 14:18:40
85.   Jim Hitchcock
No kidding. Albert's a fan!
2005-05-01 14:18:48
86.   Linkmeister
Well, a non-scoring inning, I suppose.
2005-05-01 14:19:46
87.   LAT
Link, it recalls those horrible memories of the no offense 2003 season
2005-05-01 14:22:46
88.   LAT
Javair Vasquez seems to have found his old form. 2 hitter through 4. Backs up 3-0, Green 2-2.
2005-05-01 14:23:16
89.   Bob Timmermann
It's 2:20 and I need a nap. Doesn't help that the cat is on the couch and she is giving off her typical "you must sleep" vibe.

Then again, she's 15 years old so sleeping is pretty much her standard M.O.

DBacks up 3-0 at PETCO.

2005-05-01 14:24:04
90.   Albert in Hong Kong
Well, I don't get many chances to watch night games during working days because of the time difference, except on Saturdays. I always try to squeeze in those day games whenever I don't have much going on the next day, which seldom happens.

I am a fan, go blue!

2005-05-01 14:28:14
91.   Jim Hitchcock
Bob, if your cat ever needs some exercise, I volunteer my parrot.
2005-05-01 14:28:17
92.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Eighty-eight pitches for chacon through four innings. Top of the Dodgers' order coming up. Not too much longer, and LA will be batting against the soft underbelly that is the CRockies' bullpen.
2005-05-01 14:32:38
93.   Blue Crew
Nice Choi. That swing before the hit looked aweful. Hopefully he can keep it going.
2005-05-01 14:32:59
94.   Bob Timmermann
My cat would see the parrot flying around and likely try to stare at it in order to make it quiet down.

Then she would go back to sleep.

She's the Steve Trachsel of cats.

2005-05-01 14:33:19
95.   Linkmeister
LAT, I go back further. It reminds me of the 1960s Dodgers. I remember reading a quote from Drysdale (who'd gone ahead to the next city for his start). When told Koufax had pitched a one-or-two hitter, Don asked, "did we win?"
2005-05-01 14:33:39
96.   Albert in Hong Kong
That's what happens when you try to hit-and-run against walk-happy Chacon.
2005-05-01 14:33:51
97.   LAT
Why would anyone lift the bat off their shoulder. Chacon can't find the zone to save his life
2005-05-01 14:33:59
98.   alex 7
the Choi-ce is yours Tracy! Looks like Choi may be finding a groove and allowed to play consistently now. 3 run inning coming up.
2005-05-01 14:34:56
99.   alex 7
I don't understand these intentional walks with no outs. You're now facing the cleanup guy and just put an extra baserunner with no outs in the hopes (what, 1 in 10 chance) of a groundball DP.
2005-05-01 14:35:30
100.   LAT
I guess Kent did'nt read my post. Why swing at the first pitch
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-01 14:35:55
101.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ket, that sac fly doesn't redeem the fact you swung at the first pitch from a man with control issues.
2005-05-01 14:37:29
102.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The new seats save Ledee!
2005-05-01 14:37:42
103.   LAT
Someone out there is high. Letting Valintine aswing 3-0 with 2 on and pitcher who can't find the plate.
2005-05-01 14:39:02
104.   alex 7
let's go zorro. Save your few precious hits for when they count.
2005-05-01 14:41:03
105.   alex 7
goodness, pinch hit weaver~
2005-05-01 14:41:15
106.   LAT
If we only get one run out of this we don't deserve to win
2005-05-01 14:41:47
107.   GoBears
2005-05-01 14:42:03
108.   Albert in Hong Kong
We don't deserve to win...
2005-05-01 14:42:15
109.   alex 7
2005-05-01 14:42:21
110.   Linkmeister
I stand by my earlier comments about bases juiced.
2005-05-01 14:42:27
111.   Dennis Cozzalio
Jon, everybody: I'm coming into all this late, but I would agree with Saul (#69 or somewhere around there). In my job we use the Chicago Manual of Style, which says that if the quoted material is itself a question-- He said, "Dude, Where's My Car?"-- then yes, question mark inside the quotes. But if the quote is inside a question, and the quote itself is not a question-- Are you sure he said "Meet Me in St. Louis"?-- then the question mark should be outside the quotes.

Vinny is right-- how is Shaun Chacon still out there with only two runs on him? Amazing.

2005-05-01 14:43:03
112.   GoBears
Well, Chacon (a.k.a. Houdini) has now thrown 116 pitches. So I'm guessing he's done. Who's next?
2005-05-01 14:45:06
113.   Blue Crew
I agree. I read a good article this past week about how Wallach has these guys being patient at the plate, which obviously gets the pitcher's pitch count up. It made a lot of sense. The object is to make the starter pitch a lot so we can get to the relivers. I noticed the same thing with Kent last night (or Friday).

Make him pitch to you. He can't find the zone.

2005-05-01 14:45:53
114.   Steve
Why is Valentin hitting sixth?
2005-05-01 14:46:08
115.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have had 10 runners reach safely in 5 innings. And scored twice.
2005-05-01 14:48:21
116.   Albert in Hong Kong
I usually see the cup as half empty, but hey, we're leading!
2005-05-01 14:48:57
117.   LAT
Welcome back Bob. How was the nap? You missed nothing but painful under production
2005-05-01 14:52:40
118.   Albert in Hong Kong
Vin: "I think [Atkins] thought it was low. No pun intended."

It never ceases to amaze me how he always catches what he says.

2005-05-01 14:56:16
119.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Chacon's Game Score: 49.
2005-05-01 14:56:52
120.   GoBears
Wha-huh? He's hitting for Lowe? And it's Nori, so perhaps it should be "hitting."
2005-05-01 14:57:19
121.   KAYVMON
80 Picthes and thats it for Lowe.
2005-05-01 14:57:32
122.   GoBears
Only 80 pitches? I wonder if Lowe hurt something. This makes no sense otherwise.
2005-05-01 14:57:46
123.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Lowe's Game Score: 60.
2005-05-01 14:59:30
124.   KAYVMON
Pinch hitting Nori makes even less sense.
2005-05-01 15:00:45
125.   Steve
I hope it's just a tweak. Though I don't know why I would assume anything, given the last week and a half.
2005-05-01 15:02:18
126.   KAYVMON
Unlucky Choi.
2005-05-01 15:05:29
127.   GoBears
Choi hits the ball HARD. Even when he makes outs (other than Ks) he whacks it. I wonder if his size makes his whiffs look worse than otherwise. When little guys swing and miss, they're still compact, short swings. When big guys do it (not just Choi, but think about, say, Richie Sexson), they just look more awkward. This says nothing about his ability to make contact with high inside heat, but I wonder if the "ugly swing" gripe is the result of the visuals of a big guy coming up empty. Just an idle thought....
2005-05-01 15:08:37
128.   Steve
Maybe this is the chickens coming home to roost after that 300-pitch outing last week.
2005-05-01 15:11:46
129.   Jim Hitchcock
What's that, seven SO's in the last 3 plus innings for Carrera?
2005-05-01 15:12:32
130.   Firstcut
I think Carrara has looked quite good this year. He seems to pitching very smart
2005-05-01 15:13:43
131.   Firstcut
this is the guy (Drew) that I really wonder about.
2005-05-01 15:14:33
132.   Firstcut
that looked really Bad!
2005-05-01 15:14:48
133.   Albert in Hong Kong
Man, Drew was really fooled there.
2005-05-01 15:16:16
134.   Firstcut
Well...they all look bad against this guy.
2005-05-01 15:18:23
135.   LAT
I know this is stupid but I thought it was wierd the way Drew looked at his bat and just walked the other direction like I don't have to pick that up let the help get it. As I say its stupid because that's what the batboys are there for but if I drop something my natural instinct is to at lease try and pick it up.
2005-05-01 15:20:04
136.   LAT
Dennis Reyes in for the Padres. One inning: 3 walks, one run. sounds like Chacone
2005-05-01 15:20:42
137.   GoBears
Do Schmoll and Wunsch always warm up together?
2005-05-01 15:20:50
138.   Albert in Hong Kong
Gio didnt need to try that.
2005-05-01 15:21:08
139.   Bob Timmermann

Carrara should really stop fielding bunts.

2005-05-01 15:22:16
140.   GoBears
Just the way the Rockies drew up that sacrifice.
2005-05-01 15:22:16
141.   Jim Hitchcock
Gio, normally the runner on first is loathe to catch the ball...
2005-05-01 15:22:44
142.   Bob Timmermann
I guess since Schmoll and Wunsch are usually one-out guys, they would be more likely to have to get ready at the same time.

Presumably, Wunsch would come in to pitch to Helton.

2005-05-01 15:24:46
143.   Vishal
why not bring in wunsch to face relaford, if he's coming in for helton anyway?
2005-05-01 15:24:55
144.   LAT
I just have a feeling that Helton is going to make us pay for leaving all those runners in scoring position.
2005-05-01 15:25:51
145.   Bob Timmermann
I think because Relaford isn't very good. And the Rockies could pinch hit for him. They won't pinch hit for Helton.
2005-05-01 15:26:22
146.   Jim Hitchcock
I have a feeling I hope LAT is wrong.
2005-05-01 15:27:37
147.   Bob Timmermann
Reyes in SD so far:
Passed Ball
Single for RBI
FC out at home
Walk for RBI
2005-05-01 15:27:58
148.   cdbavg400
Was that last curve only 55 mph?
2005-05-01 15:28:29
149.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Wunsch time!
2005-05-01 15:29:06
150.   Blue Crew
He just made Helto look bad. Nice pitch.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-01 15:29:13
151.   Albert in Hong Kong
A swingannamiss! After this series, Helton must not like facing Wunschtime.
2005-05-01 15:29:28
152.   GoBears
OK, I surrender. Normally, I hate LOOGYs or ROOGYs, but Wunsch just made Helton look terrible.
2005-05-01 15:29:38
153.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Do Schmoll and Wunsch always warm up together?
Yes, because it looks cool.
2005-05-01 15:29:54
154.   Jim Hitchcock
Re: # 148: How about 55 degrees?
2005-05-01 15:30:10
155.   LAT
I don't know S@*T and glad to be wrong
2005-05-01 15:30:22
156.   Icaros
A lot of people would think that 3:30 is too late for Wunschtime, but not the Dodgers.
2005-05-01 15:30:43
157.   Langhorne
That just proves what an old school player Gio is. There was a time in baseball when you could hit a runner on the basepath to get him out. Old time baseball! Eddie Shore!
2005-05-01 15:30:55
158.   Eric L
So does Tracy get credit for bringing in Wunsch?
2005-05-01 15:33:38
159.   GoBears
Re #156: Oddly, I started in on my tuna sandwich just as Kelly started to pitch.
2005-05-01 15:34:21
160.   Steve
2005-05-01 15:35:24
161.   GoBears
Why what, Steve?
2005-05-01 15:35:49
162.   Eric L
I assume that if Helton would have knocked Wunsch around, then people would be blaming Tracy.. that's all.
2005-05-01 15:36:39
163.   Steve
Bad assumption.
2005-05-01 15:37:25
164.   Bob Timmermann
16 HBPs for the Dodgers this year.

The team record is 72. I think this team can do it without the help of Alex Cora and Mike Kinkade.

The single season record is 148 (Baltimore Orioles, 1898). I don't think the Dodgers will reach that. The Astros had 100 HBP in 1997.

2005-05-01 15:37:33
165.   bokonon42
Is Colorado hitting batters everywhere they go, or just Dodgers? I hope he doesn't get an AB next inning, but maybe it's time Helton took one off the helmet.
2005-05-01 15:37:37
166.   Steve
Sorry for getting all existential on you there, GoBears.
2005-05-01 15:38:58
167.   Steve
Bokonon, I get your point, but you also have to remember that we've drawn something like 25 walks in this series. Their pitchers just aren't any good.
2005-05-01 15:39:04
168.   Eric L
If Tracy ordered someone on the Rockies to get hit in a 2-1 game, then I think I will jump on FJT bandwagon..
2005-05-01 15:39:19
169.   GoBears
No sweat, Steve. I just didn't know where to start!
2005-05-01 15:39:32
170.   Albert in Hong Kong
Ghame over? hopefully and hopefully
2005-05-01 15:40:02
171.   Icaros
The team record is 72. I think this team can do it without the help of Alex Cora and Mike Kinkade.

Quit giving Plaschke more ammo.

2005-05-01 15:40:02
172.   DodgerfaninNY
It's funny, I always like Dennys Reyes, thought he had the stuff to be a dependable starter. You wonder at the things that conspired against him from realizing his potential. I see where Pedro Astacio lost to the Red Sox yesterday, I know he's had alot of injury problems, but another guy who I liked on the roster. Remember in 2001 when the Dodgers had to decide between Chan Ho, Ismael, and Dreifort? All 3 had so much promise. I guess my point is, regardless of a guy's talent-sometime it just isn't enough.
2005-05-01 15:42:08
173.   bokonon42
I'm not even saying they're trying to hit guys. I'm saying they need to be more careful. If you can't throw inside without plunking a guy, maybe you'd better not throw inside.
2005-05-01 15:42:09
174.   Bob Timmermann
Actually in 2003, the Dodgers had four guys with double digit owies: Kinkade had 16 and Cora, Cabrera, and Lo Duca all had 10.
2005-05-01 15:42:53
175.   LAT
i miss gagne right now
2005-05-01 15:43:07
176.   Steve
To complete the circle, I thought that Tracy stayed with Carrara as long as he should have then brought in Wunsch. The big question is pulling Lowe. Pitch Count? Injury? I'm only following on computer so I haven't heard. Has anyone else?
2005-05-01 15:43:13
177.   GoBears
Lhovely start, Yhency.
2005-05-01 15:43:22
178.   Linkmeister
Speaking of hit batters, in further proof that there's a blog for everything, I give you:

Plunk Biggio!

From the first post:

"It is not widely known, as far as I can tell, that the Houston Astros second baseman Craig Biggio is closing in on an all time major league baseball record set over 100 years ago. He needs to be hit by a pitch 28 more times to break the career record for hit-by-pitches."

So this guy is keeping track of Biggio's "progress" towards this dubious achievement.

2005-05-01 15:43:57
179.   Jim Hitchcock
Lotta pessimism today, LAT :)
2005-05-01 15:44:15
180.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies are playing for a tie. I can only imagine that the Lesser Luis Gonzalez is coming up to sacrifice.
2005-05-01 15:44:57
181.   GoBears
re 176: Vinnie didn't offer any insight as to Lowe's early departure (6 innings, but only 80 pitches). Beats me. Maybe Gio just needed some work?
2005-05-01 15:45:57
182.   Icaros

I don't know why Lowe got pulled, but Steiner said he was sitting in the dugout with a smile, so it doesn't seem like an injury.

He does have a history of thumb blisters, though.

2005-05-01 15:46:10
183.   Jim Hitchcock
Steve, there was a camera shot of Lowe grinning
and giving a thumbs down to someone in the dugout the following inning.
2005-05-01 15:46:25
184.   Steve
Did I read that last year the Rocks had far and away more sac bunts than anyone else, or am I delusional (or both?)
2005-05-01 15:47:27
185.   Jim Hitchcock
Bad pine tar. Bad!
2005-05-01 15:47:28
186.   Bob Timmermann
The Rox were third in the NL last year in sacs behind Montreal and Houston.
2005-05-01 15:47:39
187.   LAT
Yeah I know Jim, just disappointed about all the missed opportunities.

Where is George Brett? These guys need some pine tar!

2005-05-01 15:47:43
188.   Blue Crew
GoBears, I was wondering the same thing. I thought I might be reading into something. Anyone have word about Lowe? It's probably nothing....I hope.
2005-05-01 15:49:11
189.   LAT
Good call. When I guy loses his bat that many times there is something else at work.
2005-05-01 15:49:11
190.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
And we score that, what?
2005-05-01 15:49:15
191.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the old 2 UDP to get out of a jam!
2005-05-01 15:49:20
192.   Jim Hitchcock
Hah. Good pine tar. Good!
2005-05-01 15:49:57
193.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ghet him, Yhency!
2005-05-01 15:50:02
194.   Blue Crew
Buy him some pine tar. Nice doubel play.
2005-05-01 15:50:27
195.   Langhorne
Some duct tape will keep that bat in Gonzales' hands.
2005-05-01 15:50:31
196.   Steve
No wonder my computer blew up. Details?
2005-05-01 15:50:47
197.   Icaros
bokonon the prophet
2005-05-01 15:50:55
198.   LAT
Shadda up Mohr and take your base. Its a gift for a guy batting .111
2005-05-01 15:50:55
199.   Albert in Hong Kong
#189 There are supernatural forces at work here.

Sit down Mohr. Seriously.

2005-05-01 15:51:45
200.   KAYVMON
I dont want to sound too naive and say that was by accident.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-01 15:52:14
201.   bokonon42
Yhency is the Ehnforcer.
2005-05-01 15:52:28
202.   Vishal
vin was talking about sometimes when a team is on a roll and everything's going right, and a guy is supposed to sacrifice but can't get the bunt down, so the bunt is taken away with two strikes, sometimes "something wonderful" happens, like the guy gets a base hit. well, the opposite of "something wonderful" just happened to the rockies.
2005-05-01 15:52:41
203.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers pitchers have now hit 11.

A long way to go to reach the record of 95 by the Devil Rays pitchers in 2003.

2005-05-01 15:52:46
204.   Steve
Yahoo says that L. Gonzalez struck out and went to second.
2005-05-01 15:53:24
205.   Albert in Hong Kong
One more strike, chlose the ghame.
2005-05-01 15:53:52
206.   GoBears
re #200: I'm sure it was an accident,but that doesn't mean 94 MPH in the back didn't hurt. THe ump did a good job walking him down to first.
2005-05-01 15:54:11
207.   Vishal
on the other hand, maybe i spoke too soon
2005-05-01 15:54:30
208.   Icaros
G(h) O!
2005-05-01 15:54:51
209.   LAT
Gagne who?
2005-05-01 15:54:51
210.   Jim Hitchcock
Something wahoo with yahoo.

Whew. Yahoo!

2005-05-01 15:54:59
211.   LAT
Gagne who?
2005-05-01 15:54:59
212.   Albert in Hong Kong
Thank ghoodness this isn't Choors Field.
2005-05-01 15:55:04
213.   Bob Timmermann

(All rights reserved.)

2005-05-01 15:55:19
214.   GoBears
Oh jeez. Yhency got lhucky.
2005-05-01 15:56:18
215.   Steve
So, have we won yet?
2005-05-01 15:57:00
216.   Steve
Bob has spoken. I guess I'll read about what really happened to L. Gonzalez later this evening.
2005-05-01 15:57:30
217.   GoBears
A sweep of the Rox. After the debacle in Denver, and the ugly Zona series, that was welcome.
2005-05-01 15:57:45
218.   bokonon42
Is there any word that isn't a little more funny with a silent 'H' in it?
2005-05-01 15:58:13
219.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
This 2-1 game with 10 hits total was played in a crisp 2:43.
2005-05-01 15:58:26
220.   Langhorne
Weird Ghame Over. Actually, weird series. But the weird ones count too.
2005-05-01 15:59:10
221.   GoBears
Steve - Gonzales struck out (throwing his bat for the 3rd pitch in a row) with the runner going. He then stumbled in front of the catcher (Phillips) who was trying to throw to 2nd. The ump correctly called interference, and hence, a DP.
2005-05-01 15:59:15
222.   brendan glynn
That isn't the spot that I would pick to send the rockies the message that enough is enough. Although the confidence to do something like Yhency did is very impressive(in a reckeless way)

Was that the worst at bat(Gonzales) in the history of mlb?looked like he was on tranqulizers.

2005-05-01 15:59:30
223.   Mark
216- Gonzalez swung three times in a row, each time flinging his bat at or near Yhency. The third time was the strikeout.. the runner was attempting to steal second at the time, but the umpire called interference on Gonzalez (either for the bat, or for stepping directly in front of Phillips right before the throw) and ruled the runner out.

That throw in the back was no accident. Losing your bat once is an accident-- twice, directly at the pitcher, no accident.

2005-05-01 15:59:38
224.   Bob Timmermann
Gonzalez struck out and interfered with Phillips as he was trying to throw out Barmes at second. So Barmes was called out as well.


2005-05-01 16:00:39
225.   DXMachina
"Is there any word that isn't a little more funny with a silent 'H' in it?"

Well, gherkin is funny either way.

2005-05-01 16:00:53
226.   Vishal

luis gonzalez, who had lost his bat twice already in two previous pitches, missed and lost his bat again on strike three, as hawpe was stealing second. either purposefully or because he was confused about losing his bat, gonzalez stepped right in front of phillips as he was throwing to second, and the runner was called out because of the interference. double play.

2005-05-01 16:01:00
227.   Jim Hitchcock
Steve, on the last pitch to Gonzalez, he swung and missed, lost the bat for the third time, and stumbled across the plate. Mohr was called out after stealing second for batters interference.
2005-05-01 16:01:49
228.   Vishal
hahahah, or five of us can answer for you, which may possibly be better than actually having seen it.
2005-05-01 16:02:11
229.   GoBears
Got it now, Steve? We're such a helpful bunch.
2005-05-01 16:02:12
230.   brendan glynn
It looked intentional to me. a little crazy because of the situation but looked very intentional.
2005-05-01 16:02:37
231.   Albert in Hong Kong
Onestly, we need to use the silent 'h's more.
2005-05-01 16:03:45
232.   Icaros
Boy Steve, a lot of guys like you, huh?

Can anyone here help me get a flight attendant job?

2005-05-01 16:05:39
233.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I was hoping the accounts would differ, so we'd have a Rashomon-esque situation.
2005-05-01 16:05:49
234.   LAT
Vin just pointed out that although Dodgers won all three they were out hit in every game. We may get away with that against the Rocks but not the teams on next weeks road trip.
2005-05-01 16:06:33
235.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
D-Backs win, so the lead is still 1.5 games.
2005-05-01 16:06:35
236.   Sam DC
Having just arrived, I want to thank you Steve for your noble effort to get an explanation of the odd DP in the Ninth. I too still don't have a clue, but it's certainly not for lack of effort.

Nice to check in on another w.

Tomorrow starts a three game set against the Nationals, during which I will root for the Dodgers to the horror and disgust of my friends and family (though no one will be surprised). We'll see what happens with his start tonight against the Mets, but right now, the Dodgers look fortunate to miss John Patterson who's been unbelievably sharp all year. Which is sort of random since he's floated around for a number of years and been OK but never really good, let alone great.

2005-05-01 16:06:49
237.   Jim Hitchcock
I don't know, Icaros...I ordered that beer an hour ago.
2005-05-01 16:07:51
238.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers draw 22 walks every 3 games, I wouldn't worry.
2005-05-01 16:08:01
239.   Mark
Icaros, you have one too many words in your question. The correct question is "Can anyone here help me get a flight attendant?" (question mark /inside/ the quotes, hah!)
2005-05-01 16:08:31
240.   Icaros
Sorry Jim, I'll get right on that. Can I take your trash?
2005-05-01 16:08:50
241.   Sam DC
Well, in the time I wrote my post we got 5 explanations. And un-Roshamon-like, they all appear to agree. Thanks all.

Gherkhin is arguably funnier than Gherkin, though I could imagine somone disagreeing.

2005-05-01 16:09:10
242.   LAT
Sorry Jim, more gloom and doom. I'll be more positive when we have clinched the division.
2005-05-01 16:09:47
243.   Icaros

The jobs are apparently much harder to get than the employees.

2005-05-01 16:10:28
244.   Jim Hitchcock
Man, that's a nice field in Arizona. But I really, really hate the sound of aluminum bats.
2005-05-01 16:11:56
245.   Linkmeister
Rudyard Kipling would say that "Gurkha" is also a good word.

FYI, the Angels won 2-1 while getting only two hits.

2005-05-01 16:13:55
246.   Linkmeister
Jim, you should have seen it in 1968 when Rich Hinton pitched for the Cats and Larry Gura was pitching for the Sun Devils. It was an ugly ugly place, surrounded by Anchor Chain link. It was directly across Cherry Avenue from the football stadium. I haven't a clue where they built this new one.
2005-05-01 16:13:57
247.   Mark Joseph
Are the Indians coming in during interleague play this year? If so, we'll (hopefully) get to see Yhency Brazoban pitch against Jhonny Peralta. Wouldn't that just be the bhomb?
2005-05-01 16:17:20
248.   Albert in Hong Kong
Haha, that's a good point, Mark. We're getting some AL central teams but I'm not so sure if the Indians are one of them.
2005-05-01 16:19:27
249.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers miss Cleveland. They host Minnesota and Detroit and travel to play the White Sox and Kansas City.
2005-05-01 16:19:28
250.   Langhorne
Steve, Gonzalez struck out and then pulled out a lemon meringue pie and hit the catcher in the face with it resulting in an interference call. Look for some chocolate, or possibly coconut, cream retaliation the next time we meet Colorado.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-05-01 16:23:07
251.   Icaros

Izturis went to catch the throw from Phillips and was attacked by a tiger.

2005-05-01 16:24:21
252.   DXMachina
How about that.
2005-05-01 17:04:35
253.   Marty
Just got back home. Totally missed the game. It was too nice a day not to go golfing. 2-1 sounds like it was a good game to watch. Hope you guys had fun.

Now I'm going to have some friends over, make some margaritas, and grill up some Mexican style chicken and carne asada.

I love weekends

2005-05-01 17:08:33
254.   brendan glynn
uh, mark. weekend is over buddy.
2005-05-01 17:20:45
255.   Steve
That is so strange it appears to need half a dozen explanations before it even begins to make sense. Yahoo still says that L. Gonzalez went to second on a strikeout. MLB Gamecast (the computer I was on is ancient and cannot run it) has it right, but liked it so much it listed it twice. And Todd Greene's last fly ball must have been fun to watch, seeing that Game Cast has it right on top of the wall in left-center.
2005-05-01 17:30:38
256.   Jim Hitchcock
The heck with that, Brendan. Marty, we're there!

Call it three feet into the warning track, Steve.

2005-05-01 17:31:24
257.   Suffering Bruin
TODAY'S FACT OF CHOI, SB'S FAVORITE PLAYER, 2005... will take a back seat to my general observations of today's game, the first I attended this season.

1. I was working. I'm doing a part-time gig at the local Staples. They knew I was a baseball fan so they brought me along to give away some free pens.

2. Autograph day: a sucess by every measure. Kent showed up, among many other familiar names. The 2005 team had to split a little early but some good names stuck around--Lasorda was one. Last one signing autographs? Ken Landreaux.

3. I'm in line at concessions and I good-naturedly say I'm there for a Hee-Seop Choi t-shirt. They don't have any and a guy pipes up and say, "He's outta here and soon!"

"What, a grand slam isn't enough? Four-for-five isn't enough?"

"He'll be a goner."

And believe it or not, we had a pleasant conversation after that.

4. We sat in reserved, third base side under the overhang. Good view but the seats were very uncomfortable.

5. Garlic fries are the equivalent of maling your Weight Watchers diet a letter bomb. But Lord, they are tasty!

6. Choi was berry good with bat today, IMHO.

7. Ricky Ledee, I think, left 27 runners on base.

8. Wunsch striking out Helton was huge.

9. Carrara was great but he's a human rain delay

10. Many people left this one-run ballgame early. Most were parents and that's understandable. The ninth inning was a strange one. I was the only one who thought Gonzalez was called for interference because he threw the bat. Everyone thought the Brazoban HBP was on purpose.

Time of game: about 2:48.

Time of last two innings: about 1:48.

Time it took to get from Lot 32 to the freeway: 50 minutes.

Time it took to get to home after getting on the freeway: 15 minutes.

2005-05-01 17:37:30
258.   Suffering Bruin
LA Times reporting Lowe was battling the flu bug.
2005-05-01 18:03:53
259.   DougS
SB, it must have been a lovely day to be at the ballpark--sunny, but not too hot. I agree that Choi had a solid day with the bat. I think he was pretty unlucky in his last AB; on TV it looked like he hit that ball harder than he hit his double.

About the Gonzales AB in the 9th, I think it was quite clearly interference. The center field camera showed him blocking out Phillips like a solar eclipse. I don't see how you could not call that.

2005-05-01 18:14:09
260.   Suffering Bruin

Agreed. Like I said, I was the only one who thought it was because he threw the bat. Come to think of it, I don't know what was called. I assume it was interference? Anywho...

I thought Choi blasted the ball in his last at-bat. I don't know how the pitcher caught it. Choi looked good at the plate.

By the by, TV watchers, on the Carrara throwing error, was someone supposed to be covering first? Choi seemed caught in between and Kent had too far to go. From where I sat, Carrara threw to an all-but empty base.

2005-05-01 18:16:35
261.   T Money

The girlfriend's an 8th grade English teacher, and she has a definitive answer for your question mark dilemma. Evidently, the question mark only goes inside the quotation mark when the question mark was originally part of the thing that's being set apart by quotations. Hence, in this case, it would go outside of the quotes.

Really, she's very adamant about this sort of thing.

2005-05-01 18:33:55
262.   Jim Hitchcock
SB, I think we all came to the conclusion that Carrara's throw was a warning shot across the bow of the runner trying to return to the bag...
2005-05-01 18:36:43
263.   GoBears
SB- I think Carrara's throwing error was just that he mistook the runner for an infielder. The runner COULD have caught the ball, but decided not to, apparently.

As for Carrara the "human rain delay," I agree with you. I actually timed him on Wed night. He AVERAGED more than a minute between pitches. I think there's actually a rule about this, but it's never enforced. I almost didn't blame the beachballers. Since Gio also struck out several players, there was essentially no game to watch for all but a handful of seconds over the course of 20-30 minutes.

2005-05-01 18:37:21
264.   Blue Crew
He did throw to an empty base. When I saw it on replay, I think he was timing his throw thinking Kent would get there in time. Kent got caught up and obviously didn't make it.
2005-05-01 19:01:46
265.   tjshere
Chiming in at the end here, I'm delighted with the weekend sweep, but very concerned about an offense that can't roll up any more hits than that against the Rockies staff. Eli, where are you?

Hey, congrats to you regulars for earning the title of "Lively Boys", with special congrats to Bob for the recognition of his great slogan.

2005-05-01 19:16:22
266.   jeongers
I don't think there is a definitive answer to the punctuation problem. Sort of like the "syllabuses" or "syllabi" question. pulls a Switzerland and says both are okay. Gutless wretches . . .

A good win for the blue. A hit or two away from turning into a laugher, but as long as we keep getting on-base like we are, we'll be good. Expecting a slugfest tomorrow.

2005-05-01 19:27:40
267.   Steve
Using Nakamura with the bases empty doesn't strike me as being a move geared to spark the offense, but with Lowe having the flu, taking him out was eminently sensible. A nice performance by him at no doubt less than 100%
2005-05-01 19:36:57
268.   Eric L
Saying the Rockies outhit the Dodgers is a little deceiving (especially today's game). They had 6 hits but only had one walk (and one run).

The Dodgers had 4 hits and walked 7 times. Obviously the Dodgers didn't get the timely hits today, but they did have more baserunners than the Rockies.

2005-05-01 19:37:34
269.   Jon Weisman
Well, yeah, Nakamura's hitting ability is certainly a question.
2005-05-01 19:51:11
270.   Albert in Hong Kong
It seems like that fan who misjudged Drew's homerun and proceeded to lunge at Matt Holliday the other game is being reviewed by security, the latimes reports.

2005-05-01 19:51:47
271.   GoBears
Thanks for the news about Lowe's illness. Taking him out certainly makes sense - if it's true, and not just Tracy making something up to justify a silly move. I agree with Eric L. on the tradeoff between walks and hits. Granted, there were some situations where EITHER would have been better than the outs that were made (not even "productive outs" - EGAD!). But it's hard to get hits if the pitcher isn't throwing strikes. Better to take the walks. Nori's groundout was definitely Ball 4.
2005-05-01 20:08:43
272.   JSN
I just thought of this because of SB's post that referred to how long it took to get out of the parking lot. I apologize that I can't remember the street names because I always do it by sight but I never pay for parking and park outside of the stadium. It's a fairly short walk as long as you don't have small children with you. I come from the north so I take the 5 south to the 110 east. Once you get on the 110 it's the first exit, go right. Then take the first stop sign and go left and then the street you arrive at(it's literally a couple houses from that stop sign to the next street) always has spots available for parking. Myself and a number of friends park there on a regular basis and have never had a problem. The entrance you walk through is the one near the 76 station. If this makes sense to some of you, hope it helps and if it doesn't I might just be explaining it poorly...
2005-05-01 20:09:42
273.   Aug C
"Mike Sweeney would love to go to the Dodgers." ("love" is italicized) At least so says Peter Gammons.

DePo has pointedly insisted that he is allowed to take on contracts this year in the form of midseason trades, defending McCourt against the fact that at one point we were promised a $100 million payroll. However, we currently have no gaping holes which absolutely necessitate upgrades. So, either we get another starter (if and when the inevitable D.J. Houlton experiment doesn't pan out bc Scott Erickson just plain stinks) or we upgrade at a position where we're currently getting adequate but not all-star production, e.g. 1B, 3B, LF (if Werth doesn't live up to expectations).

Any thoughts on impending free agents that would clearly help us?

2005-05-01 20:19:55
274.   Eric L
Friday's Game:

Dodgers: 5H, 10 BB
Rockies: 7H, 2 BB


Dodgers: 6H, 6BB
Rockies: 7H, 1BB


Dodgers: 4H, 7BB
Rockies: 6H, 1BB

The Rockies did outhit the Dodgers this series, but they also had fewer BR (as I pointed out a couple of posts up).

2005-05-01 20:22:54
275.   Eric L

If the Dodgers win the division and do well in the post season, does the "$100 million payroll promise" really matter?

If they need to add a player to make sure they win and increase the payroll at the same time, it's a good thing. If they add a player just for the sake of fullfilling a half empty promise of a certain payroll, I just don't see it mattering.

2005-05-01 20:30:59
276.   Aug C
Obviously I'm not saying we should add salary for the sake of adding salary. But just as obviously, we don't have superstars at every position, and it would increase our chances of winning a World Series if we had more superstar level production.

And no, I'm not saying the season is a failure unless we win the World Series. But I'd like to have the best chance possible. I would bet any amount of money that DePodesta will make an upgrade in the middle of the season, because that's what his track record in Oakland and L.A. last year says - I'm just trying to figure out what would be his best options.

2005-05-01 20:31:40
277.   Steve
I don't mean to be contrarian (ok, yes, I do. I always do.), but third base appears to me to be the gaping maw of a black hole wrapped around a vacuum that was promised by the mainstream media. I am falling rapidly out-of-love with Valentin, who must have more strikeouts from 2-0 counts than anyone in the history of baseball.

So unless Sweeney likes 3B, he's going to have to live with that fantastic contract he signed with the Royals -- unless Willie Randolph gets his hands on him.

2005-05-01 20:45:19
278.   Vishal
i'm with steve; third base is looking more and more gaping by the day, unless valentin snaps out of his slump soon.

and regarding the fan, while he absolutely shouldn't have grabbed holliday, it seemed to me like the fan had the ball in his hands, but bobbled it right to holliday, and he was instinctively grabbing for the ball back, as if to say "hey, that's a home run buddy, why are you throwing it in?? give it back!" that doesn't excuse him grabbing the player, but it didn't seem malicious in intent.

2005-05-01 20:46:31
279.   Vishal
ps. i put the exclamation point within the quote on that one :)
2005-05-01 22:00:28
280.   LAT
Steve I couldn't have said it better. When I read #273 I thought the same thing.

Eric, the distinction between hits and baserunners is what concerns me. What will we do when we come up against pitchers who can actually get it over the plate.

2005-05-01 22:00:29
281.   LAT
Steve I couldn't have said it better. When I read #273 I thought the same thing.

Eric, the distinction between hits and baserunners is what concerns me. What will we do when we come up against pitchers who can actually get it over the plate.

2005-05-01 22:02:31
282.   LAT
Sorry for the double
2005-05-01 22:12:48
283.   Eric L

Don't get me wrong, if the Dodgers have a problem getting hits against guys who actually throw strikes, I will be (am?) concerned.

I too agree that they may have to do something with the 3B situation down the road. I'm not bullish on judging someone with a small sample size (Nori), but if he and Valentin aren't hitting, it's gonna be a problem.

2005-05-01 22:29:49
284.   Steve
With Choi we not only had the small sample size, we had some kind of track record (at least the same kind of track record by which baseball people make judgments all the time). By the time you got a sample size large enough to be meaningful for Nakamura, he could do a lot of damage. I'm honestly not sure what I would do about it. It's just an observation.He might hit .300 too, but how could we know?

Unlike the media conventional wisdom, I think DePodesta will fix his mistakes (Valentin) if he is indeed a mistake (and the jury should still be out...though I admit that I am less than optmistic). And the 3.5 mil? Well, he's no Chan Ho Park. Or Darren Dreifort.

2005-05-01 22:50:22
285.   Eric L
The Nakamura situation is tricky. Other than his numbers from Japan, all we can really judge him on right now is the small number of ABs he has racked up this season.

If there is still a problem with production at 3B, I have no doubt that DePo will find a way to fix it. If Valentin does indeed suck, his contract isn't going to hold the team back. Signing Valentin may have been a panic move, but it was at least a move that won't hurt the Dodgers in the long run.

2005-05-01 23:28:46
286.   Odysseus
3B would really have to be a short-term fix, because we have Guzman waiting in Jacksonville, where his OPS approaches .900.

This was one of the reasons, I think, behind signing a one-year deal with Valentin.

2005-05-01 23:42:03
287.   Icaros
What 3B would actually be available who is that much of an upgrade over Valentin?

Funny thing about Valentin's numbers when compared to Beltre, aside from BA he's killing him in every other category:

.197/.370/.377=.747 OPS
.248/.274/.347=.620 OPS

Valentin has 15 walks to Beltre's 3, and has matched Beltre's HR total of 2, in less plate appearances.

We know he's going to have a low BA; he always does, but he's been a pretty vital contributor this season and has really shown the ability to get on base and make pitchers throw lots of pitches, even when he doesn't hit.

It's still early, but Seattle better hope they didn't buy the old Adrian Beltre. He's looked terrible so far.

2005-05-01 23:59:31
288.   Icaros
Just for fun, since there was so much debate over who was the better player to hit third in the Dodgers lineup:

J.D. Drew
.256/.400/.439=.839 OPS
4 HR, 19 BB (5 years/$55 million)

.248/.274/.347=.620 OPS
2 HR, 3 BB (5 years/$64 million)

This is after Drew started what, 0 for his first 25? You have to figure he will be hitting closer to .300 by season's end.

It's very early, and I'm sure Beltre will turn it around (he always finishes strong), but the key difference between a player like Drew and a player like Beltre is that when Drew is slumping, he still helps the team by getting on base and making the pitchers work.

When Beltre is slumping, he's nearly worthless offensively. As long as Drew continues to stay healty, DePodesta may be looking pretty brilliant by season's end.

2005-05-02 09:28:57
289.   Aug C
re: 277, 285

I agree that 3B is our best potential candidate for an upgrade, but to be fair to Jose he does have a VORP of 4.0 so far, which is perfectly servicable if he's the worst regular in the lineup. Anybody know how I would be able to find a list of impending free agents?

"If there was a luxury tax for having too many pitching prospects, the Dodgers would be in trouble." -Baseball America

2005-05-02 09:48:38
290.   Steve
Everybody makes good points (Guzman, Valentin's OPS and VORP, nobody out there to replace him). It would be sort of amusing if Valentin hit .210/.320/.475+, with a VORP of 20+, all the stat-heads call DePo a miracle worker, and Bill Plaschke's head exploded. That alone would justify one month of Valentin, not to mention one year. But it's that last number he needs to work on -- the OBP is going to drop from where it is now. He hasn't been over .330 in a few years now.

I still think he should be hitting eighth.

2005-05-02 09:49:10
291.   Steve
I take that back. It would be EXTREMELY amusing.
2005-05-02 09:56:55
292.   Chris H
Willy Aybar might be an option. He is tearing up AAA at the moment and if he continues doing that I think you have to give him a shot at the job midseason.
2005-05-02 10:03:49
293.   Steve
But is Willy Aybar from Corona? If not, Plaschke doesn't want anything to do with him.
2005-05-02 10:58:46
294.   Sushirabbit
If we want to upgrade, why not go after Helton? It seems like given the recent events that he ought to be ready to move on, but how soon do the Rockies figure out they have no chance? And what can we give them in return?

Of course, I was thinking Choi was never going to materialize offensively, and he looks alot better.

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