General Manager Paul DePodesta said there was no chance Gagne or Brazoban would be traded to fill the hole at third base created by the injury to Jose Valentin.

"I love having those last six outs of a ballgame" taken care of by two dominant relievers, he said.

Speaking of which -- Brendan, Yhency has arrived. Woo-hoo!

Personally I was hoping Aybar would have been brought up in spite of Mike Edwards. I think Nakamura should get sent down to work on that god awful swing of his if/when Aybar does make it up. Aybar is a nice 22yr old switch hitter with decent power and defense at both 2b/3b.

Just another note on the Dodgers 3B situation there is a young man named Andy LaRoche at High A Vero Beach who was just named Minor League Player of the Month for April. Oh, and I won't even mention our 3B of the future currently playing SS in Jax.

Any day now we may have a Jacksonville infield of Loney-Young-Guzman-LaRoche, all top-notch prospects. Pretty cool.

Man, and I thought I wasn't getting much sleep. You guys been hanging out with Enders?

Fun day yesterday, no? Let's do it again...

-----------------------------------------------

TODAY'S FACT OF CHOI, SB'S FAVORITE PLAYER, 2005:

While currently living the high life in Cincinnatti, Choi can visit one of his oldest friends currently down on his luck. Relief Pitcher Jung Keun Bong is on the 60-day DL with shoulder trouble. The two have known each other since high school ball in South Korea and played together on a Korean junior national team. The team competed in a kind of world junior tournament in Canada back in 1997 and got eliminated by the USA. Choi and Bong were the leftly sluggers for the team--Bong was primarily an outfielder at the time--but he knew from the first pitch they had no chance against the Americans. "We had no clue," Bong said. "A lefty pitcher who threw 95 mph. We had no chance. He had 15 strikeouts. We lost 4-0."

The teenage lefty wunderkind who threw 95 mph? None other than Rick Ankiel.

By the by, I started typing the above about ten minutes ago. I should've known Enders was awake.

I got maybe two hours of sleep last night. Eric's clicking keyboard woke me up.

Looking forward to Werth back. But, you know, Ledee has far exceeded expectations.

IT'S A SCHMOLL WORLD, May 7:

In 2003, Steve Schmoll broke the Maryland Terrapins' career strikeout record, ending his college career with a total of 278 whiffs. "More power to him," the previous record holder, Brandon Agamennone, told Maryland's student newspaper. "I thought about sending a letter over there to him, congratulating him. I just honestly didn't get around to it, but congratulations to him ... Eric Milton broke it and I guess I broke it two years later. So I got to hold on to it for five or six years." Agamennone never made the majors, but did reach as high as AAA and is still pitching in the minor leagues.

My friends dad actually recruited Jung Bong for the Braves and said he was a much better hitter than a Pitcher but oh well for that notion.

P.S. The reason LaRoche hasn't been moved to AA is becuz they want Guzman to get some more work at 3B which would take away some AB's from LaRoche. Eventually they will either have to move Guzman up or skip LaRoche up to AAA.

Random Dodger game callback

May 7, 1950

33,734 people came out to Forbes Field to watch the defending National League champion Brooklyn Dodgers beat the Pittsburgh Pirates, 3-2. Jackie Robinson went 3 for 3 with a home run and drove in all 3 runs as Rex Barney picked up his first win of the season. If saves had been a statistic at the time, Carl Erskine would have earned one, throwing one pitch to retire the last batter of the game with the tying run on second. Dodger starter Jack Banta, allowed both Pirate runs to score on wild pitches.

With the win, the Dodgers improved to 10-6 and stayed a half game ahead of Philadelphia, which swept a doubleheader in Cincinnati. The Phillies would prove to be the Dodgers nemesis that year. The surprising Phillies battled the Dodgers all year for first place and lead the Dodgers by 2 games with 2 games left in the season at Brooklyn. The Dodgers won the first game 7-3, but in game 154, Dick Sisler hit a 3-run home run in the 10th inning off of Don Newcombe to give the Phillies a 4-1 win and their first NL Pennant since 1915. The Dodgers finished 89-65, 2 games out of first. But next year would be better, wouldn't it?

The 1950 Dodgers were loaded with stars: Hall of Famers in Duke Snider, Pee Wee Reese, and Jackie Robinson. Interestingly, Robinson, well known for his speed, didn't lead the Dodgers in stolen bases that year. Reese did with 17 and Snider had 16. And for the second straight season, the Dodgers had a player pull of a "triple double" in extra base hits. Duke Snider had 31 doubles, 10 triples, and 31 home runs.

Making his first appearance with the Dodgers in 1950 was a pitcher who would become one of the first great relief stars in team history: Clem Labine.

Winning pitcher Barney would later become better-known as the public address announcer for Baltimore Oriole baseball games. THANK YOU!

Thanks to the NY Times and Retrosheet

Brandon Agamennone--so close to having his last name be Agamemnon. How cool would that be?

I'm actually hoping they keep Guzman at short, but I guess there's no harm in getting him familiar with third since Izturis is signed for a while. I just hope they're not buying into the notion that he's too big for shortstop when he has the skills to play the position. Of course, having never seen him play, does anyone know if he's a good defensive shortstop?

What's the latest on a timeframe for Perez or Aybar to be called up? Playing Nori at SS and 2B and putting Edwards at SS was entertaining, but that lineup won't cut it in an actual close game.

Can anyone explain why Chen and Thurston seem to play very well at AAA, but can't take advantage of their opportunity with the big club. Is it confidence? Is it talent? Is it a a big hole in their swing or an inability to hit a certain pitch? I jut haven't watched them play enough to know why they can't stick in the majors--and why no other team would want them when they were DFA'd.

I'm actually hoping they keep Guzman at short, but I guess there's no harm in getting him familiar with third since Izturis is signed for a while. I just hope they're not buying into the notion that he's too big for shortstop when he has the skills to play the position. Of course, having never seen him play, does anyone know if he's a good defensive shortstop?

Supposedly the Dodgers' plan is to let Guzman keep playing SS until he proves he's not able to. Most people expected that to happen a long time ago, but I think a lot of scouts are surprised by how well he continues to handle the position.

A player with Guzman's power would be much more valuable as a SS, provided he can field the position adequately. I think the Dodgers are doing the right thing by keeping him at shortstop, but that raises the specter, perhaps as soon as next year, of having to trade Izturis and re-living the Loduca firestorm again.

And what better time than next year to ship Izzy off? We're talking on this site about an all-star appearance for him. His value couldn't possibly be higher than now or in the near future.

Izturis being traded? As soon as next year?

Even if it were for the good of the ballclub, I'm not sure I would be able to take that again. I agree with most other people that Guzman will develop into the 3B position, and that he is the future at that corner.

Unrelated note:

If Steinbrenner's horse and Derby favorite, Bellamy Road, fails to win the Derby, will he stick its head under Joe Torre's sheets tonight to remind him of what happens to losers (a la Godfather)?

Of will George stick Joe Torre's head in Bellamy's stall for the same effect?

If things go normally today, we could have a quickly played game. Both Lowe and Ramon Ortiz work fast. There will likely be lots of balls in play.

Ortiz got pounded by Milwaukee in his last start. He's sort of an all or nothing proposition.

At 6'6" and possibly still growing he will develop into a corner spot. While he has good hands at SS his range will be diminished with that size. His fielding is good for a SS and his arm is plus. So if LaRoche develops as planned we may see him at 2B or Guzman may be moved to a corner OF spot. Nothing wrong with having a plethora of middle IF prospects with Dewitt, Hu, Abreu, LaRoche and Guzman. We also have Loney and Dunlap for 1B. Our problem is OF prospects since besides Cody Ross our only other options are Delwyn Young (his defense is horrible at 2B and will be moved) and possibly Matt Kemp or Xavier Paul.

For Those of you that are actually interested in our Minor League system you should check out www.minorleaguebaseball.com and look up our teams and our player stats/boxscores. It's fun to keep up with :-)

Las Vegas 51's (AAA)
Jacksonville Suns (AA)
Vero Beach Dodgers (High A)
Columbus Catfish (Low A)
Ogden Raptors (short season, don't play til after draft)

Today's lineup:

Izturis
Choi
Drew
Kent
Bradley
Ledee
Edwards
Bako
no.9 spot

Hopefully Edwards proves competant at 3B as I'm praying Lowe is on his game in this HR haven. Have I lobbied for us getting rid of Nakamura yet? If not......PLEASE DEPO, BANISH HIM TO AAA!! And I think Repko needs to get some more AB's in AAA also.

Eric-
Although I understand the unique advantages of trotting out a power hitter to SS, I'm not sure the dismissal of a young gold glover at SS with a .383 OBP in the leadoff spot would be a great move (and hoping the OBP doesn't regress too much for the remainder of the season). Would be nice to get a level of production out of the hot corner at or above league avg (and I say this having no idea how the current Dodgers 3B compares to the league but assuming its substandard).

My Hollywood ending for the season would include the midseason arrival of Edwin Jackson (starring as Dontrelle Willis) and Joel Guzman (starring as Miguel Cabrera) helping the team capture the WS. So far Jackson hasn't been Willis, but the tools seem to be there. Four-five good starts at Vegas and would have no qualms about handing Erickson's slot to him. Depending upon Werth's durability, the Marlins use of Cabrera in 2003 (SS, 3B in minors, 3B, LF in majors) would be a way to get Guzman's bat into the lineup--if needed. Always nice to see homegrown talent succeeding on the big stage--and typically considerably cheaper than the FA pickup at the deadline. Considering the continued messages from Team Depo about not wanting to impede typical developmental progress of the minors leaguers, this will probably remain fodder for celluloid fantasy.

Last nites game was great - there were lots and lots of Dodger fans there. Beautiful night along the Ohio River. Of course, no one here in Cincinnati had a clue about my TEAM-DEPO shirt - ha.

Funniest moment of the night, you had to be quick to see it - When Penny left the game, the Dodgers did a double switch, and up on the big screen, they showed 'Tim Wallach' now playing shortstop, with a picture of Mark Edwards throwing the ball around! I was like, I don't think so!

Penny was having his way with the Reds - I thought a no hitter was in store for him. LA played great defense behind him. Izturis and MB both made some great plays.

Today I am concentrating on the Derby, but I have tickets for the Sunday night game. I hope the Reds arent the ones scoring 10 in the first inning, with Erickson up.

In a purely selfish mode, Gagne's return is not good news since I have Brazoban on my fantasy team.

Game under way in 5 minutes. That pregame interview with Griffey reminds me what a great guy he still is.

For those curious, this is the Retrosheet description of the Dodgers last 10-run before last night:

DODGERS 2ND: Cey walked; Garvey singled to shortstop [Cey to
second]; Baker doubled to left [Cey scored, Garvey scored, Baker
out at third (left to shortstop to catcher to third to second)];
Burke singled to left; Burke stole second; Burke stole third;
Yeager walked; Lewallyn out on a sacrifice bunt (pitcher to
shortstop) [Burke scored, Yeager out at second]; Lopes singled
to center [Lewallyn to second]; Washington singled to right
[Lewallyn scored, Lopes to third, Washington to second (on
throw)]; Smith walked; SAWYER REPLACED SHIRLEY (PITCHING); Cey
walked [Lopes scored, Washington to third, Smith to second];
Garvey singled to left [Washington scored, Smith scored, Cey to
second]; Baker homered [Cey scored, Garvey scored]; Burke
grounded out (third to first); 10 R, 7 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Padres 0,
Dodgers 10.

Washington is Ron Washington and Sawyer is Rick Sawyer.

I never knew Ron Washington was on the Dodgers. The Dodgers won that game 18-4.

That's great, Eric. only two days across country. Those are quality shirts.

Thanks for that recap Bob of the last time they scored ten. Love reading Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Smith etc.

You don't get all teary-eyed about Glenn Burke and Dennis Lewallyn do you?

The Dodgers three outs in that inning came when Baker was caught stretching a double into a triple, a sacrifice, and one legitimate ground out. It was 10 runs and 7 hits in 1977. Last night is was 10 runs and 6 hits.

I wonder if most double-digit innings involve a lot of walks. One would think a pitcher would get wild and then feel the need to just lay in a strike and then the batters would start teeing off.

Not teary eyed over Burke. It was more like "Oh, Yeah Burke"

more of a lee lacy fan, myself

In that 1977 game, Burke went 4 for 5 with 4 RBI. Lacy came in as a pinch runner in the 4th and went 1 for 2.

And a game that had 22 runs, 30 hits and 9 walks took just a little over 2:30 to play.

Today that game would take 3:30 to play.

OK, which one of you jokers put the "I (heart) Hee-Seop Choi banner in the bleachers in Cincinnati?

Yeah, what's SB doing in Great America?

Choi looks about 100 times better at the plate right now. My only concern is that he's taking some pretty close 2-strike pitches. Not every umpire is going to give him the calls he's been getting today.

THAT was far

Charley Steiner after Choi's 3rd-inning single:

"It's not the biggest fan club in the world, but both of the people behind that banner are very happy."

Meanwhile, Drew almost hits one to Kentucky...

JD Drewwwwwwww

So how long will Choi need to have great at-bats like that before Tracy finally lets him start vs. lefties? Or am I dreaming?

The red dot on Gameday looks a long way from home.

But it wasn't Adam Dunn off of Jose Lima far was it? As in, landing in Kentucky.

"Hits one almost to Kentucky" might be more grammatically accurate. Can I get a ruling from the judges?

Kind of went off the top of the restaurant in Great America. A few feet higher and it would have gone out of the park I'm sure.

Listening to KFWB on Gameday Audio and ready to start a 'Replace Al Downing' website. Can anyone suggest a decent replacement for me to forward to KFWB?

Oz,

My English teacher girlfriend goes with "almost to Kentucky." And, trust me, it's best not to argue with my English teacher girlfriend.

Franklin -

A "decent replacement" for Al Downing? I don't know... Maybe an inanimate block of wood?

Oh, that's right, Rick Monday's already working those games...

After 7 outs, Steiner had to make the reference...I was going to wait until the 5th inning before busting out 'the code'...

Drew's HR: estimated 454 feet

As long as you hit the ball from CF to RF in Cincinnati, you are hitting the ball to Kentucky.

For having a river outside the stadium, it's a surprisingly unimpressive view. Unless you like looking at coal barges. The Roebling Bridge is nice.

I would agree with T Money's girlfiend. "Almost hits one to Kentucky" could suggest that Drew took a great swing at it but popped it up. "Hits one almost to Kentucky" makes clear that he hit it very far, just not as far as Kentucky.

These are the things we can discuss when we're winning.

The radar gun in Cincy is a tad hot - it had Penny throwing 99, Houlton at 95, and Lowe's sinker at 93.

I should have known better regarding Home Run grammar - "JD Drew almost hits one to Kentucky" was one of my sentence correction questions on the GMAT.

All right! Triple for Edwards!

Nice piece of running. Lucky too.

Lyons sounds nuts with his notion that hitters prefer doubles to triples, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Weird discussion.

Tommy Lasorda lives! Suicide squeeze!

SQUEEZE!

Lyons just made an interesting, provocative point about doubles vs. triples.

Lyons making an interesting, provocative point about anything? Does not compute. Does not compute.

Way to go Gabor!

#54, I thought the same thing.

This is becoming non-moneyball baseball.

Someone should mail a tape of this inning to Joe Morgan. Maybe that would get him off DePo's back.

Cesar ripped one probably 400 feet... foul. Too bad.

Isn't that three straight Reds who have tried to bunt now? Ortiz, Freel, and Lopez. Is Lowe supposed to be bad on fielding bunts?

Of course, Ortiz was trying to sacrifice.

Or perhaps the Reds hitters wanted to see if Edwards could field bunts?

Or maybe the Reds hitters just aren't very good.

Aaaaaaugh! So close.

Choi almost hit that one to Kentucky...

Regardless, he can hit. Ortiz is now afraid of him.

I know I'm behind an inning, but what Lyons said about hitters preferring doubles to triples is idiotic on its face. These players have agents, many of them lawyers. Doesn't Lyon think a player knows his agent will point to the triples column on the stat sheet? It's right between the doubles and the homers.

The obvious reason most players stop at second and don't turn every double into a triple is they aren't fast enough to get to third, or they didn't hit the ball far enough. Duh.

I don't know what Lyons said, but going for a triple if you're not absolutely sure you're going to be safe is a low percentage play.

I think players prefer not making stupid outs on the basepaths too.

re 67: Yes, of course WE know that triples are better than doubles. And of course DePo wouldn't be fooled. But I think Lyons was channeling the old school types. Triples symbolize speed (and are flukey and rare - the league leader will have 8 or 9). Doubles mean gap power, and line drives. Even if most of them are groud balls down the line. The speculation (I wouldn't call it an argument) is that the triples column is just dismissed for all but maybe leadoff hitters, but you want that doubles number to be as large as possible. This type of thinking, of course, is why we prefer summary stats such as SLG %, but that doesn't mean Lyons isn't right about how players think. They're wrong, but some of them might think that way.

So much for Grabowskiing the Reds.

What's more fun, Grabowskiing or Waterskiing?

There goes to no-no. Did Bradley have a chance? I'm stuck w/ Gameday today.

I mean "the."

Edwards looked solid on those two plays.

Lyons said that players think doubles look better on paper than triples. Doubles show power, while triples show speed. Doubles look better as numbers than triples do. Or some whacked-up thing like that.

The ball stuck against the base of the wall in left-center...Bradley had to paly it on the bounce.

In other news, Edwards is wholly adequate at 3B so far.

Thanks OZ.

Bradley played it safe, waiting for the ball to bounce back towards him.

RE 75: and so far, he can hit.

Yeesh, Milton can't buy a hit. Let's see if his new-found equanimity survives this slump.

Dodger Stadium is historically a poor triples park and no Dodger has had 10 triples in a season since Brett Butler had 10 in 1993.

The other LA Dodgers who have gone over 10 are Willie Davis (who holds the LA record with 16 in 1970), Maury Wills, Wally Moon, and Charlie Neal.

If Bradley reverts to type, we can lobby for "Meltdown Night" at the Ravine.

For some reason, and I can't really put my finger on why, Rickly Ledee looks like every single guy I went to high school with.

Maybe it's the bad, wispy mustache.

If Bradley reverts to type, we can lobby for "Meltdown Night" at the Ravine.

So far, I like the the Edwards experiment much better than the Nakamura experiment. Which one of them will get sent down to make room for Perez? Edwards seems like the obvious choice, but Nakamura really hasn't done anything with the bat to warrant staying up.

Edwards CAN hit.

I know it's just one game, but I think Edwards should be the temporary 3B for now instead of Nak.

I'm rooting for Edwards to get the chance to hold the title of "Most obscure player to hit for the cycle."

Well, they're all right-handed (Edwards, Nakamura, Perez), as is, of course, Saenz. I guess that Perez can play 2b/SS, which is a point in his favor. And that's probably why Tracy was moving the other guys around yesterday - to let them audition for "utility guy" as well. So, if there's no obvious call due to versatility or platoon effects, I say just go with the two best hitters. That would seem to leave Nakamura out in the desert heat.

Is it a language thing? Can't Wallach get Colburn to translate? His stance, etc. is probably ingrained, and no amount of coaching can get Nak to adapt to ML pitchers...

If you hit a double, and get thrown out trying to stretch it into a triple, it's still scored as a double, right? Your manager will hate you on the day you try it, but come contract time it still looks like a double on the stat sheet. So the risk Lyons is talking about doesn't exist. What Lyons is really saying is, 'Most hitters I know are so stupid, they prefer doubles to triples.' I doubt he's using any first-hand knowledge.

Nakamura likely has a translator, but he can't be on the bench during games unless he holds some other job like trainer or equipment manager.

I think the deal with Nakamura is that it's hard to teach a guy who was pretty successful doing things one way for a long time to change in a couple of weeks.

I see the Dodger LOB machine is back in working order. After 10 runs on 6 hits in the 1st yesterday, I wasn't sure this was the same team.

Lyons just said Lowe should win a Gold Glove.

Any ideas about that?

Lyons just decided to give Lowe the Gold Glove because he's fielded three bunts properly.

Under that reasoning, Schmoll whould be considered for that diving catch of a bunt last week.

Isn't it odd that Miley used a reliever to come in just to get out Bako and Lowe? Ortiz could have just easily have done that. But maybe 100 pitches is Ortiz's maximum.

Uh oh.

Jeez, the ball is just flying around. That shot by Griffey almost got past Ledee, and quickly! Lowe's in a little trouble here.

That Ledee catch looked like what I see at a lot of my softball games. Hey look, the ball ended up in my glove! Sweet!

AHHH!

Where's Steve?

Feh.

Now we should worry.

If Lowe hadn't let Dunn go to third he wouldn't have scored on that single. Ugh.

bleah

And again a pitcher is left in too long.

Lowe's faced 7 hitters this inning, 4 have scored and on'es on first, two made outs.

And Tracy's in the dugout. Still.

Wheels came off rather quickly.

I thought it woulndt get any worse. I was wrong.

Ouch.

Can we pull him now, Tracy, that the game is out of reach?

This team's success is a testament to Jim Tracy's outstanding management, getting the most out of his players.

Thanks.

Someone should make FJT caps.

Well, I think its obvious that Cincinatti figured out that Lowe was tipping his pitches. I can somewhat even see it.

What I don't understand is why in the Hell Tracy didn't send out Coburn to slow things down a bit and figure it out?

Fire Jim Tracy AGAIN!

It's just uncanny how Jim Tracy leaves pitchers in there too long.

I think he just started getting his pitches up.

But Lowe was pitching very well prior to that inning. He just sort of lost it fast.

However, the Reds pen is far from fearsome. But David Weathers is in position to get a very cheap win.

Its not uncanny, its just plain stupidity. He just was sitting there like a palooka, stunned by it all.

Same thing happened last time Odalis pitched; he clearly ran out of gas in the sixth inning, and was left out there until the game was out of reach.

What is the use of a strong bullpin if you dont use it. I hate the argument of wearing out the bullpin. Those pitchers are a dime a dozen. Wear'em out.

Mercker's in the game. I wonder if Tracy'll pull Choi.

Bob,
Its not hard to see that he lost it fast because they figured out his sequence of pitches or, knew what he is going to throw.

That's the only explantion.

What is puzzling that Tracy just sat there and did nothing. He didn't even try to slow the situation down.

Listening to Monday and Downing is absolute torture.

And listening to Steiner isn't much different. For a second there, I thought he was a Red's announcer.

Better then Steve Lyons though.

That was ugly. I have to say, I'm glad he's hitting but Choi is not much of a fielder. He should have had a play on Jiminez' single as well as Dunn's. If he makes either play it's a one run inning. Not that we have many options at first.

Unbelievable.

Has Tracy ever pulled a starter this year BEFORE a lead has been lost? Lowe clearly had lost it. He should have been pulled after that shot off Choi's glove (another problem by the way) and even moreso after the pitch in the dirt and the argument afterward.

If only someone would pull Tracy.

What was Bako doing???

Anyone else watching on Extra Innings? The Reds announcer sounds like Dennis Farina.

That must be Chris Welsh. The other guy would be George Grande, who sounds quite slick.

Of the eight Reds hits, seven have come around to score.

If the Reds pen coughs this lead up after their recent troubles then the Ohio River is going to catch on fire.

Wow, some of you guys turn fast. Bako's was a good play- just didn't work out. Just because Steiner is giving us bad news doesn't mean he's doing a bad job. Choi didn't make what would have been a great play. I'd still say he's way above average at 1st base. OH, and as much as I think that Jim Tracy is a doofus, it doesn't look as though bringing in Sanchez or Wunsch earlier would have helped matters. Cincy is just teeing off against everyone.

For pitch counts, does a ball in play count as a strike? Just wondering since we're getting killed.

The game is bad enough and Rick Monday is raising our awareness of male breast cancer for Mother's Day?!

yes 133

Listening on Gameday...How is Choi's defense looking on TV? Should he have gotten any of the balls that went his way?

133, yes and they are counted as strikes by most people.

133: Yes. Any time the batter swings, no matter what the outcome, that's called a strike.

Hey, Bradley got a hit!

Well, maybe Danny Graves can put up another seven spot in the ninth.

My dream of Mike Edwards hitting for the cycle has been cruelly ended.

6th inning: Lowe pitching. 3-0 lead.

Single.
Groundout.
Double.

3-1 Dodgers, one out, Casey is the tying run at the plate. Griffey and Dunn due up.

Casey singles.
Griffey lines out hard to left.
Dunn singles.
WP. Tie game. Go-ahead run on third.
Single. Homerun. 6-3 Reds.

Pitching change.

7th inning. Sanchez pitching, down 3 runs.

Double. Bunt "single." Fielder's choice.

7-3 Reds, one runner on, one out. Casey, Griffey, Dunn due up.

Tracy brings in Wunch down by 4 runs to face Casey, Griffey, Dunn, but not to protect a one-run lead in the sixth against the same LH hitters.

Unforgivable. Connect the bullpen phone to Steve's house.

Thanks for the info. So is the origin of the word that literal, meaning a pitch that was struck or should be struck?

Speaking of Graves' seven run ninth, I guess Tracy isn't the only one who's slow on the trigger.

I would peg Choi as merely average at 1B. He's big and slow and just doesn't have much range. To be considered above average he would need to have fielded some of the balls he's missed over the last few weeks.

With that HBP, I will officially change the channel.

Ugh. Well, get it out of your system, boys. If you're going to look hapless, best to do it when you're down by five with an inning to go.

Who got hit by a pitch? Larue struck out.

I'm glad someone finally said it about Choi's fielding. He let two very fieldable balls go right by him. I wonder why he seems to get a free pass about his defense from most fans. Probably because he has a "rep" from some that he is a good fielder.

This just wasn't our day.

Click.

As Prince would say, time to play in the sunshine.

Well I've given up watching the game. See ya all at a later time.

I don't think Choi gets a free pass from most fans about anything.

C'mon, 9 in the 9th! It can happen.

Every so often.
Like this game
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08210LAN1990.htm

Ahh, memories:
PHILLIES 9TH: WALSH REPLACED VALENZUELA (PITCHING); Booker
walked; Martinez reached on an error by Offerman [Booker to
third]; Thon singled to center [Booker scored, Martinez to
third]; Hollins singled to center [Martinez scored (unearned),
Thon to second]; Campusano flied to right; Nieto walked [Thon to
third, Hollins to second]; V. Hayes reached on an error by
Offerman [Thon scored (unearned) (RBI), Hollins to third, Nieto
to second]; CREWS REPLACED WALSH (PITCHING); Murphy doubled to
left [Hollins scored (unearned), Nieto scored (unearned), V.
Hayes to third]; KRUK BATTED FOR MCDOWELL; Kruk homered
(unearned, but earned for the pitcher) [V. Hayes scored
(unearned), Murphy scored (unearned, but earned for the
pitcher)]; Booker singled to center; HOWELL REPLACED CREWS
(PITCHING); Booker stole second; Martinez doubled to center
[Booker scored (unearned, but earned for the pitcher)]; Thon
flied to center; Hollins was walked intentionally; Campusano
grounded out (third to first); 9 R, 6 H, 2 E, 2 LOB. Phillies
12, Dodgers 11.

From Retrosheet

If only Choi could have gotten a chance to hit.

Then it might have ended 11-5!

Wow, a couple of taut games to start out this series.

I certainly count more Choi supporters than detractors on both this board and the Dodger.com board.

My very unprofessional scouting report on Choi is as follows:

Coi may not always look good himself, but he makes the rest of the infield look good. He does a great job of picking balls out of the dirt and pulling in throws that are offline. On groundballs he certainly isn't great, but he's probably close to average considering the defensive abilities of most firstbasemen. His range is above average, but he has trouble picking up the hop. He has a good arm and makes an accurate throw to start the double-play.

Overall, it's hard to imagine that he's any worse than what we dealt defensively last year (and likely a fair bit better).

ESPN's scouting report also has him as a good fielder:

Baserunning & Defense
Choi moves well for a man his size. That said, he is not going to be stealing many bags over the course of his career. On defense, he has all the tools to be a Gold Glove winner some day. His hands are soft and his footwork around the firstbase bag is excellent. The lefthander makes the lead throw on the double play with strength and accuracy, and he looks like he has been playing first base at the major league level for years.

Oh yeah, what's your count up to now?

Will Ferrell is doing a fantastic Harry Caray impression on the Phillies-Cubs broadcast.

A disappointing game, considering how it started, but the Reds were due for a win. And the bullpen was due to be roughed up a bit, as was Lowe. I agree with Tracy's critics here that he left Lowe in too long, but it really wouldn't have mattered considering how the pen pitched.

Anyhow, let's hope we get the rubber match tomorrow. The St. Louis series will also be a big early season test of how good we really are.

The good news is that Drew and Choi are still hot--Gameday had him lining out against the lefty, and Milton may be coming out of his funk.

WWSH

#156: Choi is certainly not an All-Star caliber firstbaseman (not even close). On the other hand, he is likely to perform close to, if not slightly above, league average and he's costing the Dodgers pretty close to league minimum. Every team needs a few players like that in order to succeed. And, the cherry on top is that he's likely to outperform Shawn Green both offensively and defensively. I think you may be mistaking support for Choi as some fans thinking he's great vs. thinking he's a great value.

Icaros just count the posts on here today. After I gave my opinion on Choi's defense, which I feel the 2 plays in the 6th today are a good example, I've seen positive posts by four different posters about him.

Please dont act like you are all by yourself, under siege. It doesnt become you.

MSarg29,

The last time you were here was opening day, when you whined and cried about being mocked for not giving DePodesta a chance.

Take your personal vendettas back to dodgers.com. We are too intelligent for you here.

Let's not fight, gentlemen. I think there is a fair consensus that Choi is something like an average 1B right with the potential to be above-average. And I certainly agree that he is a great value.

161. I do think Choi does a good, not great job on throws in the dirt. But on ground balls and liners to him he is shaky. The game 2 saturday's ago in Colorado, he misplayed the first 2 balls put in play in the game. Which of course helped the volatile Perez lose his concentration and create a big inning.

Fearing's assessment of Choi's defense sounds about right to me. He looks ungainly because he's so big (same for Kent, actually), but he has very good range, also because he's so big. His failures are often due to his ability to even get to balls that other guys would just watch go by. I've watched nearly every inning he's played, seen him make more terrific plays than bad ones, and probably more importantly, I have not seen him screw up even one "routine" play. He makes the other fielders look good, and even if you attribute that to size (he can reach everything) and not talent, what does it matter, as long as he makes the play? But I'll admit that part of my enthusiasm for his defense is because I had prior expectations opposite to what has been suggested here. I expected a stiff, and he's looked good to me!

165: Oh please. You're going to blame Choi for Perez pitching badly? That seems like a stretch. And even if there's some truth to it, there is no way in the world that we could ever know it. It's pure speculation. Put it this way - if Perez had actually said after the game that Choi's apparent miscues (I disagree on one of the two) flustered him, we'd all be calling Perez an unprofessional whiner, and we'd discount his post-hoc rationalization of his own poor performance.

Icaros, I have been here many times since opening day. Once again you show that you always feel you are being persecuted unless everyone agrees with you. You and your friends have proven my point that there are a lot of Choi supporters here. That's fine, just don't act like you are in the minority.

In the midst of our postmortems, we should look to tomorrow. Weaver against Eric Milton. I would expect homers aplenty with those two guys on the hill.

The recently resurrected Padres are leading the Cardinals 5-4 in the 8th.

The pesky Diamondbacks will host Pittsburgh with Joss Fogg facing my mortal enemy, Russ Ortiz.

If anyone's curious, Baseball Prospectus has Choi's defense as one run below average for last season, and projects the same for 2005. Shawn Green was listed at 1B as a surprisingly low -9. If he would have played 1B this season, I assume that would be improved, but perhaps by not enough to match Choi.

I could've sworn I saw a UZR figure with Choi as a bit worse at 1B than Green, although both a little bit below league average. However, due to small sample sizes, that may not be worth much. I actually know much less about Baseball Prospectus' methodology for defense, so I'm not sure which figure would be preferable.

WWSH

GoBears - I am not blaming Choi for Perez not throwing well that evening. Perez must control his own emotions. But I was at the game and I watched the miscues...the low liner off his glove and the wild throw to no one at first and then the wild pitch a couple of feet over Perez's head on the bunt. Perez walked off the mound, stared at Choi, paced behind the mound and tried to compose himself. It didnt work.

I'm not saying that should be an excuse for Perez losing his concentration, just stating what I saw.

I appreciate all of the personal attacks though. Once again you are proving that this board has room for only 1 viewpoint.

With ESPN covering tomorrow night's game, who does the radio: Steiner and Monday or Monday and Downing?

Or some unholy quartet of Steiner, Monday, Lyons, and Downing.

Once again you show that you always feel you are being persecuted unless everyone agrees with you.

When does everyone ever agree with me? I'm usually too busy making stupid jokes to feel persecuted, Mr. Martyr.

You and your friends have proven my point that there are a lot of Choi supporters here. That's fine, just don't act like you are in the minority.

My "friends" and I (none of whom I've ever actually met in person, mind you) support Choi for the most part because we're tired of the unfair criticism he's received upon his arrival to LA. The number of casual fans (like those who were booing Choi for awhile) and MSM writers far outnumber the people who regularly post on this board, don't you think?

I'm a little concerned that there is an attitude that you have to be either for or against a player. Life doesn't work that way. I've been a critic of Choi. But I'm a Dodger fan. I want Choi to win the batting title, a Gold Glove and be elected mayor of Los Angeles. But I'm not going to make excuses for a player just because he is on my team. If I wanted to be like that I'd get a job announcing for the Angels. I'm also able to admit when I'm wrong. Choi has shown much more ability at the plate than I thought possible. But his defense is shaky. He will allow baserunners that should have been outs and occaisonally that will lead to a big inning. He doesn't react very quickly and he seems to wander too far off the bag on balls he can't possibly get to leaving the pitcher or nobody to cover first. If he continues to contribute at the plate it's a problem I can live with but today was an example of how weak defense can change a game.

Wayne - thanks for going through the numbers.

MSarg29,

I apologize for the "too intelligent" insult I posted earlier. That wasn't nice or called-for, and I was out of line for writing it.

However, I think you're being petty insulting to a lot of open-minded people with your combative arguments. Your claim that DT has only room for one viewpoint is so far off-base I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to disprove it.

Have a nice day.

Langhorne -You hit the nail right on the head. I also want Choi to do well. Great points about his defense. That is the point I was trying to make.

But when one makes a statement that isn't 100% positive toward certain players, then that poster is attacked.

Icaros- I accept the apology. For you to attack my intelligence made me angry, but I let it go because I thought to respond to it was beneath me.

I don't know what was combative about questioning Choi's defensive ability.

I also wouldn't call myself a casual Dodger fan, like you implied. I have been a passionate Dodger fan my entire life. I live in Washington DC and watch all the games I can on the satellite package. Those that are not televised I listen to on XM Radio. That means a lot of late nights following the Dodgers for me, its something I grew up doing.

Have a nice day.

RE: 174

The odd thing, Langhorne, is that scouts have generally rated Choi's defense highly. The ESPN scouting report Fearing Blue posted seems to reflect the consensus of the scouting community on Choi's defense. The beef among old-school types is that Choi has too many holes in his swing. In contrast, the sabermetric dudes at BP have Choi as a slighly below-average fielder, but one with far more hitting potential than guys like Buster Olney could credit.

I personally trust the statistical measure of defense more than anyone's observation, quite frankly. The problem with evaluating defense by the eyeball method is that it's awfully hard to find common grounds of agreement or disagreement. Sure, Langhorne, you think Choi's defense "is shaky," but I don't see any inherent reason why your analysis is any better than Choi's defenders. You've probably been watching a lot more ball than me, but then, I can just point the scouting community, who are the most grizzled on that front, and they think Choi's a potential gold glover at some point. I myself have never felt confident judging anyone's defense, because I only watch mostly Dodger games and don't really have time to compare them to the larger universe of fielders, much less the whole problem of not being able to see a player's first stop on TV.

For that reason, I think it's best to just see Choi as a league-average fielder with a bat that might end up being something much better than average.

WWSH

This was one of those "blah" games. They happen.
I was surprised to see Lowe's record is 2-3, he has pitched considerably better than that, but he's had some bad luck.

Was anyone else getting frustrated with Steiner today? He kept going on about how great Lowe was pitching. Maybe I'm just superstitious, but I could FEEL the game slipping away before the Reds even scored once b/c Steiner kept talking about Lowe's great game.
I mean, say it once, it is his job as a broadcaster, but don't keep saying it, especially when the lead runner gets on.

Not that I'm trying to blame Steiner for today's lackluster game.

While the loss was painful it was not like we gave up a 7 run lead. A 3 run lead in that park is no guarantee of a victory.

I don't know what was combative about questioning Choi's defensive ability.

What I find combative is that when people merely disagree with you, you call it an attack. My first response to your post about Choi was to state that I felt most people don't give Choi a free pass about anything.

You followed that with a statement directed at me personally, telling me not to act like I'm under seige, and that it doesn't become me. That's when I was moved to insult you in return. Of course, you won't apologize for doing the same thing you complain about others doing.

I also wouldn't call myself a casual Dodger fan, like you implied

I didn't imply that at all. I don't know you. That is why I referenced the fans at Dodger Stadium who boo Choi and the MSM-types who've been putting him down all winter.

The Nats just scored 5 off of Schmidt in the top of the fourth, to give them a 5-4 lead. Yikes. Schmidt's ERA is 4.5. Actually, make that 4.71. Nats scored again off of Fassero.

WWSH

WWSH,
You must listen to me because I am the LORD HIGH GOD of BASEBALL! Sorry, Joe Morgan already has that job. My analysis is no better or worse than anyone else's. That is why I come to DT, to share my opinion and, more importantly, to read other opinions. My first level of analysis is what I see. Today I saw two plays in the 6th inning I thought could have been made. My second level of analysis is to learn how others see the same events. The more input I get the better I can evaluate these events and future events. It's the exchange I enjoy. If you're looking for definitive analysis I can't help you. No one can, not even the stats. I think that numbers can be relied on too much. The stats tell us that Jeff Kent will hit .310 and drive in 100 runs this year but they can tell us nothing about what he will do in his next at bat. That's why they play the games and why I watch them. And why I come here to read what other knowledgeable fans think about them.

I came home from the gym, we were ahead 2-0, went up 3-0, the announcers said how few pitches Lowe had thrown and that 13 pitches in an inning was ideal, and them kaplooie!
Should have saved some runs from yesterday.
Puts me in a bad mood for the rest of the day and now my wife wants me to watch the "Derby".

If Afleet Alex doesn't win after that piece on the little kid who died, there's no justice in the world.

If I've repeated things that have been said before, please forgive me, but I don't have time to read 184 comments. Jon, you've become too successful. By the way that "Baseball Tonight" satire blog is pretty funny. Thanks for the tip.

Langhorne,

I agree that nothing's definitive--I just think that seeing Choi as a league-average defender is the safest stance. The numbers--whatever their worth--support that, in addition to various sorts of scouting reports. I didn't see today's game, so perhaps his fielding woes really nailed us, but one game a season doesn't make. I still remember Izzy double-clutching a double-play grounder last year in the NLDS. The best fielders have their off-days, and Choi really hasn't played all that much for the Dodgers so far.

WWSH

The Giants have tied Washington 7-7 in the 5th and have 2nd and 3rd with just one out.

Giacomo (a Southern California horse) just won the Derby at 50-1. Steinbrenner's horse finished out of the money.

That will be one big exacta payoff.

$9814.80 is the $2 exacta payoff

Giacomo paid $102.60 to win.
Closing Argument paid $70.00 to place.

The trifecta was over $133,000.

And if you had bet the Superfecta (first four horses in order) and gotten it right, you would have pocketed $1.7 million on your $2 bet.

For all I know, this post doesn't get seen but I thought I'd add my two cents to the somewhat heated conversation about Choi's defense. He is, after all, my favorite player, 2005.

My opinion is this: I'm glad it's his defense that's the topic of controversy. I don't think it's any longer a question--nor should it be--that this guy is a hitter.

I've seen every play he's made in the field. He's got a good ability to handle infield throws, has better mobility that I thought he would have, seems to get handcuffed on the hot shots up the line (he's got company) and his throws to second which were pathetic when he was slumping have now picked up with the rest of his game.

In short, I fail to see why any Dodger fan would be dissatisfied with their firstbaseman. I'm just ticked that he's probably going to be interviewed six times before I get to him on the next homestand.

I read it SB!

As I watch the DBacks fall behind the Bucs 3-1 in the 5th.

Russ Ortiz looked horrible. Pittsburgh should have had about 7 runs instead of 3.

so much for asking a simple question about Choi's defense (#136).

I'm with Bob...you're right on target, SB. Choi as a 26 yo left-handed 1B is sure looking good compared to the Dodger home run leader, Karros, who at the same age put up 14 HR in 406 AB for an OPS of .736. Choi could match the HR output by the All Star break. Another coup by Depodesta; buy low, sell high.

So'd I miss anything?

Yes, Steve Schmoll committed a balk.

So, SB does that mean you got your press credentials? I may have missed it if you said earlier. If so, congratulations. Looking forward to seeing the interview.

That was one big balk.

At least no one's arguing about Kent's defense.

Who is SB interviewing? Without reading 200 comments, it's not Choi, is it? That would mean 100 more facts of Choi for every RBI he gets this year. :)

"100 more facts of Choi for every RBI he gets this year."

Hmm. 85 RBI * 100 Facts of Choi = Yikes! SB would need a ChoiBlog of his own!

Yes, he's trying to get an interview with Hee Seop.

The LAT reports Sunday that the "minor back surgery" for Chuck Tiffany was the removal of a cancerous mole.

Assistant GM Kim Ng was interviewed by Baseball Prospectus Radio this weekend. I haven't listened to it yet, but Will Carroll is a good interviewer. You can download it below.

http://baseballprospectus.com/radio/

197 & 198 - I haven't heard back from the Dodgers. They appreciated my honesty when I said I was just a guy posting on the internet and they did say I would probably get a pass. I'm looking to get him on the next homestand because by the end of the month, the LAT, LADN and OCR will all have done profiles.

201 - OWWWW!! I mean, for those that haven't had that done, that hurts. My mom, in good shape, was literally laid up for a week after having a mole removed.

Just don't forget about your photographer/tape recorder holder/seeing eye dog over here, SB :-)

(Honestly, I'll be really happy even if only you get in.)