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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
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May 11 Open Chat: So Much Day Baseball
2005-05-11 11:59
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

It's lunchtime in Los Angeles, and 10 games are in progress - 12 once the Angels and Indians get underway at 1:05. Fun for all you desk or sports bar jockeys (though sometimes I'm very disappointed at how far some restaurants will go to avoid showing a baseball game on their hovering television set).

The 5:10 p.m. start for the Dodgers and Cardinals actually represents the final game on today's schedule.

* * *

For those who wish to harken back to a day when pitchers were pitchers and cars were horses, check out these strikeout numbers in the Times - exceptional even for girls' softball:

Kirsten Slouber of Van Nuys Montclair Prep struck out seven in four innings Monday, giving her 47 strikeouts in a 21-inning, 2-1 softball victory over visiting Santa Monica Crossroads.

It was a continuation of an Alpha League game that had been suspended May 3 because of darkness.

Slouber's total was third-best in Southern Section history, trailing only De De Weiman of Cerritos Gahr and Lisa Fernandez of Lakewood St. Joseph, who had 56 and 48, respectively, in a 1986 game that lasted 29 innings.

Comments (466)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-11 12:28:01
1.   Bob Timmermann
Kirsten Slouber goes to Montclair Prep. Russ Ortiz went to Montclair Prep. Ergo, she's on my Enemies List.
2005-05-11 12:35:26
2.   Icaros
But which of the two would you rather have in your starting rotation, if forced to choose?
2005-05-11 12:39:25
3.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt Ms. Slouber will be effective throwing overhand from 60'6".
2005-05-11 12:40:51
4.   Jacob L
Just came in from lunch, where I caught a couple innings of the NYY/Sea game. Jeez, I mean, somebody get some outs.
2005-05-11 12:54:41
5.   Icaros
Any less effective (if not frighteningly lucky) than Mr. Ortiz?
2005-05-11 12:57:57
6.   Jacob L
FWIW, and it may have been brought up elsewhere, the Times Dodger report today says that Schmoll and Repko are the likely demotees when Gagne and Werth return. Those that are calling for an end to the Grabowski era may have to wait a bit longer.
2005-05-11 13:05:35
7.   Icaros
Oakland put up 4 in the top of the ninth off Foulke to take a 5-4 lead.
2005-05-11 13:07:02
8.   Xeifrank
Moyer got 7 outs in that Yankee game today and gave up 10 hits, allowed only one walk and didn't give up any home runs. That sounds like a very unlucky pitcher to me considering all the batted balls in play that went for hits as opposed to outs.
2005-05-11 13:08:01
9.   Xeifrank
Gagne is coming back? Could it be that he will be the Dodgers new 5th starter? Then it would be 'Game Over' in the first inning!!!!!! :)



2005-05-11 13:09:58
10.   Icaros
When Gagne was a starter, it was usually bizarro Game Over by around inning four or five.
2005-05-11 13:10:57
11.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

May 11, 1908

Shortstop Phil Lewis hit his only home run of the season in the 6th inning in St. Louis to lead Brooklyn to a 2-1 win over the Cardinals. The home run came off of Cardinal starter Bugs Raymond, whose career was short-circuited by alcoholism. Raymond was relieved in the game by the aptly named Johnny Lush.

The 1908 Dodgers were led by first baseman Tim Jordan who led the majors in home runs with 12. No Dodger would repeat that feat until Adrian Beltre in 2004. The Dodgers led all NL teams in home runs in 1908 with 28.

But other than Jordan, the 1908 Dodgers were a pretty miserable bunch. They finished the season 53-101, 46 games behind the eventual World Series champion Chicago Cubs. The Cardinals were even worse, finishing four games behind the Dodgers. Brooklyn finished with the lowest team batting average of any National League team in the 20th Century at .213. Jordan had the highest batting average of all players at .247. They were not last in runs scored, finishing with 6 more runs than the Cardinals with 277 runs. The 1908 Brooklyn teams had only one game when it scored more than 10 runs.
For comparison, the weak hitting 2003 Dodgers team scored 574 runs and had four games of more than 10 runs. The 2005 Dodgers have scored 172 runs in their first 32 games, which would put them on pace for about 871 runs.

Brooklyn used just 8 pitchers in 1908, one of them a 19-year old named Pembroke Finlayson who gave up 5 runs in 1/3 of an inning for an ERA of 135.00. Finlayson would pitch in one game in 1909 for seven innings and gave up four runs and finished his major league career with an 11.05 ERA. On March 6, 1912, Finlayson would pass away in Brooklyn from peritonitis at the age of 22. Newspaper reports speculated that Finlayson hurt himself in the minor leagues in the 1911 season and never fully recovered.

Brooklyn did get some solid pitching from Rucker and Irvin "Kaiser" Wilhelm. Wilhelm finished with a 1.87 ERA but a record of 16-22. Manager Patsy Donovan finished his 3-year stint with the Dodgers in 1908 with an overall record of 184-270, a .405 winning percentage

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-05-11 13:11:26
12.   Chris H
Dotel just walked Ortiz to start the 9th.

Somewhere a chair just hit a wall.

2005-05-11 13:12:18
13.   Icaros
How old were you when you attended this game, Bob?
2005-05-11 13:13:35
14.   Icaros
With a one-run lead, walking Ortiz may not be quite as sinful as your average base-on-balls.
2005-05-11 13:15:59
15.   Icaros
Okay, walking Ortiz was bad, so is Dotel.
2005-05-11 13:15:59
16.   Bob Timmermann
I've long been a member of the Phil Lewis Marching and Chowder Society.
2005-05-11 13:16:19
17.   Chris H
You spoke too soon Icaros. Varitek homers and the Red Sox win 6-5.

Two days in a row!

2005-05-11 13:17:14
18.   Bob Timmermann
And Oakland even rallied on a home run by Eric Byrnes of all people.
2005-05-11 13:17:30
19.   Icaros
I've never quite known what Marching and Chowder Society meant. I know it's like a fan club, but what's with all the marching and chowder?
2005-05-11 13:17:58
20.   the OZ

Power: theoretical edge to Grabbo despite Repko's 4 HRs to date, because he's big.
Speed: Repko
Defense: Repko
Bench value: probably Repko. Grabbo is LH and Repko RH although Repko makes a better defensive replacement or pinch runner. Given how few RH bats we have on the bench right now, I'd rather have Repko as a pinch-hitter.
Grabbo: .138/.257/.241 in 29 ABs
Repko: .200/.294/.417 in 60 ABs

Also, Grabbo is a more known quantity - it is unlikely that he'll so much different than a .200/.280/.350 line given 100 or so at-bats. Repko likely won't be a star, but is young enough to have a better upside this season. Plus I love watching him almost throw guys out at home on fly balls to the wanring track.

Can anyone list reasons they'd prefer Grabowski to Repko this season as a 5th OF?

2005-05-11 13:18:19
21.   Icaros
Chris, I never said the game was over.
2005-05-11 13:19:48
22.   scareduck
Jon -- Stick N Stein in El Segundo always has baseball games on -- multiple ones at once, even -- in season.
2005-05-11 13:21:09
23.   Linkmeister
Hey, Icaros. I found an airline that just gave its flight attendants raises, and they're hiring. I know that sounds impossible, but it's true. Here's the airline website:

and here's the news story:

2005-05-11 13:23:38
24.   bigcpa
Strange but true...

The Dodgers are averaging 5.4 runs/game to lead the NL but are the only team in the majors that has yet to score exactly 5 runs in a game.

2005-05-11 13:23:48
25.   Icaros
Hey, thanks Link. Much appreciated. I think I could handle living in Hawaii.
2005-05-11 13:27:05
26.   Icaros
The requirement of a Valid Hawaii Driver's License might cancel me out, though.
2005-05-11 13:28:51
27.   bigcpa
One more oddity...

Dodgers OBP/SLG allowed:
2005 .325/.407
2004 .323/.408 (full year)

2005-05-11 13:31:49
28.   Icaros
Also, it appears that the reason they've given these raises is because they pay way lower than their competition. Customer service positions were making minimum wage, apparently.

Isn't everyone enthralled by my plight? More interesting than silly-old baseball, isn't it?

2005-05-11 13:45:54
29.   LetsGoDodgers
Yes, it was only one game, but Robles has dug himself a big hole, IMO.

The shovel broke the earth when Robles stood there like a deer in the headlights while Bradley rounded 3rd and was coming home in the top of the 4th. It was Robles' job to inform Bradley whether he needed to slide or come in standing up. Robles did neither, so Bradley came in standing up and was very fortunate to knock the ball out of the catcher's glove with his knee.

The excavation continued when Robles didn't get out of the way so Ledee could field the pop-up that Erickson griped about. This extended the inning and considering how bad Erickson sucks, the Cards rallied.

Robles doesn't seem to have enough fundamentals to play at the major league level. Bring on Antonio Perez!

2005-05-11 13:46:45
30.   Linkmeister
One of the reasons they can pay that is that the two big airlines out here (Aloha and Hawaiian) are in or emerging from bankruptcy (sound familiar?).
2005-05-11 13:48:20
31.   scareduck
bigcpa/24: cannot possibly be true; both the Angels and Rangers won their respective games by 5-4 scores.
2005-05-11 13:49:37
32.   Art H Tracy
"Can anyone list reasons they'd prefer Grabowski to Repko this season as a 5th OF? "

Isn't Grabo an emergency catcher.

Also I got a question. Does anyone know why it's taken Edwards so long to rise through the minors. In eight of nine years he's hit very well, yet they've always taken their time moving him up.

2005-05-11 13:51:03
33.   Art H Tracy

Hey, I guess the ? on my keyboard works. :)

2005-05-11 13:53:04
34.   Fearing Blue
#28: We're all pulling for you Icaros. I wish I knew someone in the biz to help you out.
2005-05-11 13:53:13
35.   jelmendorf
I'll make the case for keeping Grabowski over Repko, which mostly doesn't matter much anyway. First, he's very likely to achieve better than 200/.280/.350 given that he did so last year--220/300/380.

That's obviously no great shakes, so my basic case comes down to this: In 7 years in the minors, Grabowski's put up a 290/392/478 line, while Repko's put up 268/320/422. Repko's younger, it's true, but they have a similar number of ABs.

Last year, as a starter, Grabowski's OPS was 778, which is pretty good for a reserve outfielder and about what you'd expect given his minor league numbers (and also better than Repko's minor league numbers).

Repko's numbers look good based solely on his first 7 games, during which he was fantastic. Since then, however, he's 1 for 34 with one walk, for a 118/143/235 line.

Grabowski's not of much use long term, but he's serviceable given a few starts, while nothing about Repko's history suggests he's even close to an average major leaguer right now.

2005-05-11 13:53:55
36.   gvette
Another big day in the Bronx for Beltre; 1 for 5, lowering his average to .241.

Master of the obvious Steve Phillips noted that Beltre doesn't look like the same player as he did in 2004. Wow, with those powers of observation, no wonder ESPN snapped him up.

As for Robles, there is no such thing as "a big hole" after one game in May; the Dodgers are going to give him more than four at bats to justify the six figures they spent to buy his contract from the Mexican League.

2005-05-11 13:59:05
37.   Johnson
Re: Repko - is it possible that the club would prefer to send him down to Vegas so that he can play full-time rather than sit on the bench and PH/PR in the big show? That would presumably allow us to get a lot more value out of him when we either A) need him to fill a full-time slot at a later date or B) trade him. Aside from being an emergency catcher, Grabs doesn't have much value. We could cut him, but there doesn't seem much point to me in keeping Repko around to be a 5th OF (Ledee seems to be the 4th) if we could have him developing in AAA.
2005-05-11 14:02:03
38.   Dello
I caught a few of the middle innings on the radio on my drive home yesterday. I was able to hear Monday's confusion over why Erickson appeared tired - he said, it can't be because its hot(then Downing explained to him that it was 86 at game time). Then on the close play at the plate when Bradley scored he said " Edmonds fields the ball, its offline (pause) oh, um, oh ... In defense, he later said that the ball seemed to curve back to the catcher.
2005-05-11 14:12:56
39.   Icaros
Thanks, FB. Just so people know, I'm not currently unemployed or anything, just currently uninspired.
2005-05-11 14:13:23
40.   Fearing Blue
I have fun personal news to share, and a couple related questions.

In the Fall, I'll be going back to school for a Masters' in Operations Research (i.e. data analysis). I'm very excited, because I found a professor who is going to work with me on a baseball thesis :).

I'm spending the summer trying to read everything I can Sabermetrics. So far, I've been focusing on books and academic papers, but I'm about to start into websites. My current list of sites to review is Baseball Think Factory, The Hardball Times, Tango on Baseball, and Baseball Prospectus. Are there any good websites that I'm missing?

Also, has anyone been to a SABR convention before? There's one in August in Toronto that I'm considering going to, and I wanted to know if it's worth the effort.

I hope that as I get into this, I'll be able to start posting interesting results. Thanks for the help!

2005-05-11 14:16:39
41.   Langhorne
Sure, three run homers to give your team the lead are flashy but Grabowski was the real hero last night. With two outs he could have swung the bat but he did what was best for the team and stood there, like a rock, refusing to move the bat from his shoulder. It was beautiful.
2005-05-11 14:17:56
42.   Suffering Bruin
Also, has anyone been to a SABR convention before?

FB, meet Bob Timmerman.

2005-05-11 14:19:25
43.   the OZ
In my quest to understand exactly how the Giants are close to .500 despite not being very good at all, and not having any viable pitchers, I found this interesting stat:

The Giants have hit 5 Grand Slams.
Tha Giants are hitting .424 with the bases loaded.

No other team has more than 2 slams.

Giants relievers, despite a 4.81 ERA, have a 8-4 record.

I'm no closer to understanding why the Giants aren't 5 games under right now than when I started, other than to say it appears they've been lucky?

2005-05-11 14:23:27
44.   Bob Timmermann
I will be at the SABR convention in Toronto. I'm the vice president of the local chapter, called the Allan Roth chapter.

The conventions are fun, although if it's your first time, you may be a bit overwhelmed depending upon your personality. All those people's names you see on books are usually there. You can learn how big Bill James is (big, really big.) You can meet John Thorn. Sometimes you can meet Eric Enders.

The best parts of the convention I've found are:
1) hanging out and talking baseball with people at all hours of the day
2) not being afraid to explain your love of Sally League baseball (just an example, that's not me)
3) some interesting research presentations
4) if you're lucky, a good keynote speaker. Last year's was Marvin Miller, who was both cheered and booed. Occasionally, the speaker is a dud (I'm looking at you Jim Evans!).

Don't go to a SABR convention looking for a lot of LA Dodger fans. There are usually 5-6 tops. Dave Smith, who founded Retrosheet, is one of them. You will find lots of BROOKLYN Dodger fans. Don't bring up Walter O'Malley around them. They get angry.

2005-05-11 14:29:32
45.   Icaros

I posted this question at the end of last night's monster thread:

Did you get my e-mail from the other day?

2005-05-11 14:38:04
46.   Jae
Giants have a decent record despite their ineptness, because of their record vs. the Pirates and Rockies. 9-2 vs them. 7-14 against everyone else.
2005-05-11 14:38:33
47.   Fearing Blue
Bob, thanks for the info. It sounds like it would be really valuable to go, especially for the research presentations. I just looked you up on SABR; mind if I send you an email sometime?
2005-05-11 14:42:37
48.   Bob Timmermann
Feel free to send me any questions you have.

I believe the next chapter outing is going to a game involving the Fullerton team in the new minor league they started.

We've attended games in San Bernardino, Lancaster, and Long Beach. The Angels let us use a meeting room two weeks ago.

The Dodgers are a tough nut to crack. We almost got a meeting room in the stadium when we found out that Dan Evans was a member. Evans volunteered the space.

Then he got fired.

Billy Beane once said he wouldn't go to a SABR convention because he would feel too much like Leonard Nimoy going to a Star Trek convention. I would say that SABR people are half numbers people and half historians. Usually there are two research presentations given simultaneously. One will be statistical and the other historical/biographical.

2005-05-11 14:43:31
49.   Bob Timmermann
"Old Friend" Daryle Ward has put the Pirates up 6-2 in the 9th.

Just three pitchers for the Giants today.

2005-05-11 14:44:15
50.   franklin
Listening to the Giants-Pirates game and Jon Miller came up with "...Daryle Ward, dangerous left hander..." causing me to shoot gatorade out through my nose onto the kitchen floor.

Then to make me feel really dumb, three pitches later he homers.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-11 14:47:00
51.   Icaros
Didn't the Braves trade a good prospect for Dan Kolb? He just blew a victory for Smoltz.

There's irony in there somewhere.

2005-05-11 14:48:31
52.   dzzrtRatt
#19 -- Icaros

I gather these societies were formed to ensure that members are sufficiently nourished to keep on marching.

There is a Galileo Marching and Chowder Society, dedicated to astronomy. They have a library, but I doubt they allow anyone to eat chowder while they're in there. The General Miles Marching and Chowder Society is a group of military historians "with a deep interest in the lives of the enlisted infantrymen of the regular army in the west, 1867-1890." You might need to put some Red Bull in my chowder at those meetings. The Caloosahatchee Marching and Chowder Society sounds like a more fun bunch. They hang out at Salty Sam's Marina in southwest Florida, and race sailboats.

Vin Scully is under the impression there is a Marching and Chowder society formed for every major league player. I wouldn't have believed it until I started reading Dodger Thoughts. Certainly, there are members of the Hee Seop Choi Marching and Chowder Society posting here, not to mention the Paul DePodesta Marching and Chowder Society. And clearly all of us are members of the Jon Weisman Marching and Chowder Society, which come to think of it might be a good T Shirt logo.

I think I've lost my mind.

2005-05-11 14:49:52
53.   Steve
Daryle Ward is my...hero? Strange year.

For some reason, I have a feeling that the seven inning bet is going to yield a push tonight. Either way, I don't plan on predicting any three-run homers.

2005-05-11 14:50:45
54.   Bob Timmermann
7-2 Bucs headed to the bottom of the 9th.
2005-05-11 14:51:07
55.   bigcpa
That Braves loss coupled with a Dodger win tonight would put us back on top of the NL heap.

Read #24 again. Every team has scored exactly 5 runs in a game EXCEPT the Dodgers.

2005-05-11 14:51:43
56.   LAT
When I was in school math was great. Adding and subtracting, what a ball. Then I had to learn about negative numbers. Harder when your in fourth grade but manageable. Then in high school, I had to learn about imaginary numbers. What the hell are imaginary numbers and when am I ever going to need them. I have no idea what the teacher is talking about-lets go back to adding and subtracting. Batting avg. and era. they are adding and subtracting. Moneyball, that's negative numbers. But
Bob T and Fearing Blue, you are talking about imaginary numbers. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Hell, I am just starting to get my mind around why Choi works.
2005-05-11 14:53:22
57.   Icaros
Maybe it would be the Hee Seop Choi Marching and Miso Society.

(I know Miso is Japanese, but it's the best my uncultured person can do at the moment.)

2005-05-11 14:53:27
58.   Steve
Speaking of Marching and Chowder Societies, Richard Nixon was a founder of one when he went to the House of Representatives in the late 40's; upon such social skills are dynasties made. I belong to all three of the M & C Societies mentioned by DzzrtRat. We also called our law school study group the Marching & Chowder Society. Come to think of it, Marching & Chowder Societies are the only things I belong to.
2005-05-11 14:54:20
59.   Marty
I like to piss off my (few) friends by explaining why there is no such thing as subtraction and division, only addition and multiplication...
2005-05-11 14:55:19
60.   Marty
Choi's would be a marching and kimchee society
2005-05-11 14:55:32
61.   Jacob L
Goldarnitall, Icaros, you stole my joke -
only I was going to say Marching and Shabu Shabu Society. Anyway, I'm in.

First order of business, somehow get Dodger commenters to stop talking about Choi as though Tim Wallach were walking up to the plate and holding the bat for him. I'm sure Wallach's done great work, as he did with Beltre last year, but give the player some credit.

2005-05-11 14:55:47
62.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think many "Moneyball" stats are used with imaginary numbers. Such as "i" which is the square root of -1 (which we can't display here).

Is there anyone here who is really good at math. I stopped off after two quarters of calculus at UCLA and another quarter of statistics.

2005-05-11 14:58:29
63.   Bob Timmermann
Giants lose!
Or Bucs win!
2005-05-11 14:58:43
64.   Jacob L
If you're watching the Pit/SF game cast, they show Rick White with a Dodger cap. Combined with Ward's "heroics" there's a theme here. Only I don't remember White being a Dodger.
2005-05-11 14:59:18
65.   LAT
BTW, an imaginary number is what Erickson must use to justify his continued place in the rotation.
2005-05-11 15:00:40
66.   Marty
All we have to do is add a -Erickson, and poof, he's gone!
2005-05-11 15:01:38
67.   Icaros

Goldarnitall, Icaros, you stole my joke-only I was going to say Marching and Shabu Shabu Society.


First order of business, somehow get Dodger commenters to stop talking about Choi as though Tim Wallach were walking up to the plate and holding the bat for him.

I assume you're speaking more specifically of Dodger Talk commentors, to which I would wholeheartedly agree.

2005-05-11 15:01:39
68.   joekings
Re: #59, I piss them off by saying how there is no such thing as cold, just heat and the absence of heat.
2005-05-11 15:06:03
69.   MSarg29
65 - LAT - Good joke about Ericson.
2005-05-11 15:07:42
70.   Jacob L

Actually, I was talking about Kevin Kennedy, for the most part. I should have said "commentators," not "commenters."

2005-05-11 15:10:37
71.   Icaros
I'll agree with you on that as well; I just don't get the opportunity to see and hear guys like Kennedy much, not that that's a bad thing.
2005-05-11 15:19:17
72.   Mr Customer

Rick White was a non-roster invitee last year, but was traded to Detroit for Cody Ross. Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?

2005-05-11 15:23:13
73.   Icaros
Steve Colyer was traded for Cody Ross. I think White was just released, or injured, or something.
2005-05-11 15:25:08
74.   franklin
Forgive me if this is old news to most of you but I just discovered an convenient alternative window view for the Gameday application. Click on "Gameday Mini" in the upper left corner and the application shifts to a vertical window that sure makes it easy to follow the game and comment on DT (and/or work) simultaneously.
2005-05-11 15:25:45
75.   Steve
Why don't we Grabowski Grabowski and call up Myrow? I have to admit, I really don't care about the stats anymore. Visceral hatred rarely does.
2005-05-11 15:27:36
76.   Mr Customer

Heck, us SABR-minded folk don't even like irrational numbers all that much. Imaginary numbers are a whole 'nother thing.

I was always good at math, but I hated taking the grad-level courses. Too much how and not enough why. I guess I'm a bit too literal for advanced calculus.

2005-05-11 15:28:39
77.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball Cube says that White had a 7.90 ERA in 11 innings for the Dodgers in 2004 spring training.
2005-05-11 15:30:08
78.   GoBears
Lineups are posted. Saenz @ 3rd. Choi @ 1st. Ledee in LF. Plus all the usual suspects. Rolen is out.
2005-05-11 15:30:36
79.   Bob Timmermann
I gave up on calculus after getting an A in my first class in integral calculus when all I did was pretty much memorize the textbook and spit back the formulae in to different equations. I really had no idea of the concept of what I was doing.

I shuffled off to my history major after that.
So anyone want to discuss the Spanish encomienda system during the early colonial period?

2005-05-11 15:35:52
80.   Vic
UCLA History grad here, Bob. In true encomienda style, I hereby move that the Angels pay tribute to Frank McCourt in exchange for using the LA name.

They can start with Vlad Guerrero.

2005-05-11 15:47:27
81.   LAT
Bob T,

Now your just messin with me. . .

2005-05-11 15:49:21
82.   Bob Timmermann
Todays debate topic:
Was Chile justified in taking away Bolivia's seaport of Arica as a result of the War of the Pacific?
2005-05-11 15:52:08
83.   Fearing Blue
I've always been very strong at Math. I'm hoping to parlay my Math skills and graduate degree into a future job as DePodesta's coffee boy :). I was a Computer Science undergrad, which at Carnegie Mellon, was much closer to theoretical mathematics.
2005-05-11 15:52:36
84.   Jon Weisman
Arica!! Arica!! Arica!!
2005-05-11 15:53:06
85.   Marty
Well, back in 1884, if Chile could get away with it, then they were justified :)
2005-05-11 15:53:37
86.   franklin
Was Chile justified in taking away Bolivia's seaport of Arica as a result of the War of the Pacific?

Ah, the politics of bird poop.

2005-05-11 15:55:06
87.   Fearing Blue
It's odd that they posted the lineups so early. It seems like Dodgers lineups are never posted until about 30 minutes before the game. I'd rather see Edwards at 3B than Sr. Cheerios.
2005-05-11 15:55:09
88.   the OZ
82 -

I don't know. It depends on whether or not Bolivia had habitually let Arica pitch in middle-inning situations where it should have gone to the bullpen, resulting in a lot of blown leads. In that case, Chile was more than justified for taking the seaport away from Bolivia, for its own good.

2005-05-11 15:58:47
89.   Mr Customer


my instant recall is not what it should be...

You're right about Colyer, of course. Since being wrong is just about the least favorite thing in the world, I have to issue errata

25-Apr-04: Los Angeles Dodgers traded Rick White to the Cleveland Indians for Trey Dyson.

Incidentally, Trey is currently still kicking around VB, and not showing a whole lot of promise.

Don't ask where I found it. I should really be doing something more productive.

2005-05-11 16:00:29
90.   Mr Customer
Also worth noting, he's the oldest player on a single-A baseball franchise, which sucks no matter how you slice it.
2005-05-11 16:00:30
91.   Mr Customer
Also worth noting, he's the oldest player on a single-A baseball franchise, which sucks no matter how you slice it.
2005-05-11 16:02:33
92.   Icaros
Well, you just made Trey Dyson happy by mentioning his name. That's something.
2005-05-11 16:05:23
93.   Mr Customer
I'm here to make people happy! What can I say?
2005-05-11 16:07:10
94.   Icaros
Maybe your name should be Mr. Customer Service.
2005-05-11 16:11:38
95.   Mr Customer
Maybe not.

When's the last time anyone at Customer Service made you happy?

2005-05-11 16:14:41
96.   dzzrtRatt
#82 --- funny you should mention Bolivia's seaport. My wife read something to me recently about how Bolivia is the only landlocked nation to have a Navy. So I guess, like Bin Laden with the Crusades, Bolivia sees Chile's actions as reversable in the fullness of time.

Sort of like the Dodgers thinking Scott Erickson's 1990 form will return.

2005-05-11 16:23:47
97.   Mr Customer

Interesting postulate, but this is not the case. Bolivia's Navy actually floats and functions as a Peruvian/Bolivian border-control entity on Lake Titicaca. I've seen them do it.

Fun Fact: Uganda has a Marine Unit that functions in much the same respect, but no official Navy, per se.

Strangely enough, this is much like what the Dodgers expect from Scotty.

2005-05-11 16:24:14
98.   Bob Timmermann
I liked Jon's joke except it doesn't work as well because the accent is on the first "a" in Arica. But I can't figure out how to type an accent mark in here yet.
2005-05-11 16:26:20
99.   GoBears
re 96: I'm not sure how we wandered into this thread, but here we are. Actually, Bolivia's bitterness over the Chilean swipe of their seaport is STILL, after 100 yrs, causing big problems for them. The government was recently thrown out when it considered building a pipeline across that narrow strip of Chile to export Bolivia's ample natural gas preserves. Protesters unwilling to do anything that might benefit Chile in any way not only nixed the plan (costing the country probably billions of dollars) but also caused the government to resign. Insofar as Bolivia has no other major source of income, this was profoundly short sighted. So, to the historians in the crowd (I'm a political scientist) why oh why do people care enough about things that happened before their grandparents were born to deny themselves material improvements today? I understand that they DO. I just can't figure out why.

Hey Jon - this is all Bob T's fault.

2005-05-11 16:26:30
100.   Bob Timmermann
I am also shocked that I got presumably adult men with jobs and homes to start discussing a 19th Century war between Chile and Bolivia and Peru. (The last two were an entry there, sort of 1 and 1A).
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-11 16:27:38
101.   Bob Timmermann
I think that somehow in the Dodger/Angel name dispute someone has to be able to use the word "littoral".
2005-05-11 16:28:12
102.   GoBears
Only 40 more minutes til game time. Then we'll have something important to talk about......
2005-05-11 16:29:32
103.   LAT
Customer, tell the truth, you just like saying "Titicaca."
2005-05-11 16:30:09
104.   Bob Timmermann
Nats lead the DBacks 1-0 in the 5th.
2005-05-11 16:31:53
105.   GoBears
Dontrelle is down 1-0 too.
2005-05-11 16:33:48
106.   Xeifrank
Computer Science Grad, with minor in Math here. Currently using it to help blow things up. :)

Always like to have some sort of baseball/sports related programming project going on. Prefer the simplicity of C and Visual Basic. Past projects have been draft software programs for both fantasy baseball and football. Current project is developing a baseball game simulator that runs through all permutations of a starting lineup to come up with the most efficient batting order. Just need to implement G/F ratio stats into the simulator for outs made, then it's almost ready to go.



2005-05-11 16:34:44
107.   Dave
Bob, turn on NumLock, hold down the Alt key and type 0146 on the 10-key numberic pad. When you release the Alt key, you should get an accent mark.
2005-05-11 16:35:18
108.   Xeifrank
For those that missed it earlier.

Over/Under on Brad Penny's innings pitched in tonights game is 7.

Last nights Over/Under on Erickson was 4 1/3 which he beat by one third of an inning.



2005-05-11 16:37:41
109.   Bob Timmermann
2005-05-11 16:39:05
110.   GoBears
This is weird. The Yankees have yet to play a team from the AL Central. Other Eastern teams have played 8,4,6 and 6 games vs. the Central, respectively. Similarly, Cleveland is the only team in the AL-C to have no games so far vs. the East. That partly explains the Yankees bad start (no games against KC or Detroit) and the ChiSox good start (none vs. the Yanks). Probably only matters by a game or two, but heck, I'm bored for 20 more minutes (not enough time to actually do work).
2005-05-11 16:39:13
111.   Mr Customer
Re: 100.

Where else did you expect to find urbane and socially aware discussion?

If you insist upon bringing up tangential subjects, you really shouldn't be suprised when I unload a nugget of usless data I've compiled on the topic. You may infer from this that it happens quite frequently.

2005-05-11 16:39:16
112.   Xeifrank
Just wanted to say thanks!!!

Thanks to Jon for putting together such a great blog, which I am so glad I have stubbled upon. And thanks to all the posters here, who all contribute alot to this forum. I've learned alot and hope to learn much more, plus everyone is very friendly, which is hard to find in an online forum these days.



2005-05-11 16:40:50
113.   Bob Timmermann
I'm just frightened to realize how many people in the world are like me!

I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

2005-05-11 16:42:22
114.   the OZ
á ALT+0225
é ALT+0233
í ALT+0237
ó ALT+0243

I now fully expect half of tonight's pósts to cøntain ASCII chäracters with unnecessary açcent marks.

2005-05-11 16:43:03
115.   GoBears
Since I'm at it:
Pittsburgh has played 14 games vs. the NL-W, but division-mate Houston has 0 games so far against the West. Washington has 11 games vs. the NL-W, but the Mets zero. And so on. Weird scheduling. So in addition to the small sample sizes so far (which have passed 100 ABs for regulars at this point), we also have had pretty unbalanced schedules, even within divisions. A little premature to draw any conclusions about most teams. Well, except for KC and Colorado. They stink.
2005-05-11 16:43:53
116.   Bob Timmermann
Actually I knew how to make them, I just didn't know if the software here supported them yet.

The DBacks have the bases loaded with 1 out and Alex Cintron up.

2005-05-11 16:44:08
117.   Mr Customer
Re: 103

Someone had to say it...

I hereby confer the Junior High School Geography Achievement Award to LAT.

And yes, this is, in fact, the booby-prize.

Mr. C

2005-05-11 16:45:36
118.   Mr Customer
Re: 114

To think, I had survived without Umlauts for so long...

2005-05-11 16:46:21
119.   Xeifrank
Looks like the Dodgers solved one of their big holes, by signing the 3 time MVP out of the Italian baseball league to a 3 year $25 million contract. Definitely going to try to add him to my fantasy baseball team.

Milan English Daily - May 10, 2005

(Milan) - The Los Angeles Dodgers have come to agreement with Italian third baseman Fabio Anchovio, making him the first player to make the move from the Italian baseball league to the majors. The Dodgers are believed to have outbid the Chicago White Sox, Seattle Mariners and Texas Rangers for the slick fielding, power hitting third baseman. Anchovio in five years for BC Milano hit 198 home runs, stole 158 bases and hit over .350 four times. Anchovio is expected to have an immediate impact on his new team, and will appear in a Dodger uniform for the first time during the upcoming homestand.

The move came as a surprise. Anchovio was let out of his contract with BC Milano, after the Dodgers paid his former club $5 million in cash. Former Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda helped negotiate the deal and made many trips over to Italy during the offseason to talk to Anchovio and Italian baseball officials. "This guy can flat out play", said a gleeful Lasorda. "It's not often that a player of this magnitude comes around, power, speed, fielding and best of all he's Italian."

The signing will fill the Dodgers biggest hole, left vacant with the departure of Adrian Beltre and an injury to Jose Valentin. Manager Jim Tracy hinted that Anchovio would bat third in the lineup, with second baseman Jeff Kent offering protection to the Italian slugger.

... and from: The Fantasy House:

Fantasy Spin: Today the Dodgers signed Italian infielder Fabio Anchovio. Anchovio is the Italian version of Alex Rodriguez. While it will take him some time to make the adjustment to big league pitching, you should make every opportunity to pick Anchovio up. It's not often that a five tool third baseman just comes out of the woodwork.

2005-05-11 16:49:54
120.   Jon Weisman
I liked the Bolivian discussion. Hakuna mutata.
2005-05-11 16:50:16
121.   Bob Timmermann
The DBacks tied the game on an error by Carlos Baerga who failed to hold on to a potential inning-ending relay throw on a line drive DP.

1-1 in the 6th.

2005-05-11 16:51:12
122.   the OZ
Anchovio? Or is it Anchóvio?

The Italian A-Rod! The Big Anchovy! Fabio! Is this for real?

2005-05-11 16:52:23
123.   franklin
You should have named him Fabio Anchoveta. Would have been a much cleaner follow up to the Latin American history discussion.
2005-05-11 16:52:51
124.   Paul B
1) Going back to Choi's fan club: to maintain the soupish reference in a culturally analogous fashion, perhaps Marching and Jiggae Society would be most appropriate? If it's the "ch" sound we like, maybe "Marching and Chosin Society"?

2) Bob, and like-minded persons. How strongly do you feel about sab*e*rmetrics" versus sabr*e*metrics? Doesn't the former just seem plainly wrong, in light of its origins? Are these the kind of hard-hitting issues you discuss at the conventions?

2005-05-11 16:53:01
125.   Steve
Is that true?
2005-05-11 16:53:34
126.   Jon Weisman
I like the outside-the-box thinking with Fabio. Any old DT readers remember this signing?

2005-05-11 16:54:35
127.   Jacob L
Lets hope the Nacionales keep up their late scoring ways.
2005-05-11 16:55:21
128.   the OZ
I especially like the "Best of all, he's Italian" line.

Well done.

2005-05-11 16:55:31
129.   Icaros
I bet Steve already hates Fabio.
2005-05-11 16:56:14
130.   Bob Timmermann
Everyone in SABR, I've met uses "sabermetrics".

If you come to a convention, you can join the long and somewhat pointless argument about changing the name of the organization too.

2005-05-11 16:56:14
131.   Mr Customer
2nd Inside-the-Park in Miami this month. Who'd have thunk it the that fractal outfield.
2005-05-11 16:58:03
132.   Vic
Coincidence that a Google search reveals April 1, 2004 as the original date for this story?

Methinks not...

2005-05-11 16:59:03
133.   Xeifrank


2005-05-11 16:59:39
134.   Suffering Bruin
I am tempted to go the wireless route. We've got a laptop and while the kid is continuing his futile quest to save Anakin from the dark side and the wife finds yet another delicious recipe (I be a lucky man!), I can have computer availability during the game.

I say this because yesterday's record setter made for some very fine reading.



Unbelievable. I spend perhaps too many hours tracking down a Korean sports reporter, I finally get a response, he gives me some good stuff to write about re: our hero... and the reporter says he doesn't want to be identified! Said reporter did not say why. It bugs me.

Of the three Korean MLB'ers who are getting the most ink--Seo, Kim and Choi--Choi is unanimously thought to have the best mental make-up for success in the MLB (reporter's emphasis).

According to the reporter, Kim is the "nicest" of the three--deferential, respectful, kind almost to a fault--who also has the biggest potential to explode. Loyal readers of "fact of Choi" know this. Seo is apparently unafraid to express his opinion no matter what the situation. According to the reporter, Seo's favorite english word is "thatsucks". My source went on to say that Seo was thought to be candidate number one to be involved in a bench-clearing brawl and he's thought to be a heckuva nice guy, too.

Then there's our hero. Choi Hee-seop is, according to my source, the most autonomous of the three and perhaps paradoxically, the one with the most genuine sense of humor. If Choi plays badly, he works hard to make himself better. If he plays well, he works hard to make himself stay that way. In between, the guy likes to have good-natured fun.

An example of this is interviews. Kim just barely tolerated the Korean press contingent that followed him everywhere during his heyday in Arizona. He was nice and devoid of controversy but if something ticked off Kim, he would explode (and in Korean baseball parlance, to "explode" is to get angry in public). Seo is the opposite--prone to raise eyebrows with a colorful quote and then regretting he ever said it. Like Kim, he's not wild about the Korean press following him everywhere.

Choi is apparently very comfortable with the press. The way my source tells it, Choi had the attitude that he could only control his own actions and worrying about what someone was writing about was a waste of time (Choi did not use those words--reporter's observation only). Remember the "Kung-Fu Fighting" thing? Choi was genuinely not bothered by it. Not because it wasn't insulting; he just didn't notice because he was trying to hit a baseball.

It would be interesting to explore some of this with Choi one-on-one but...

a) Choi doesn't have a lot of detail in his answers to questions and...

b) Choi is thought to be a very dull interview and that is emphatically not a criticism as far as the Korean press is concerned.

FOOTNOTE: I haven't heard back from the Dodgers regarding a press pass. I'm following up tomorrow and hope to get him sometime during the upcoming homestand.

2005-05-11 16:59:45
135.   the OZ
In non-Anchovy news, Damian Easley hits an ITPHR against Roy Oswalt, 2-1 Marlins.

The fake news stuff is great. I'm a fan of the genre, having worked for a satirical news publication in college.

2005-05-11 17:00:15
136.   Jon Weisman
Wow - just noticed that Roger Cedeno is batting fifth tonight for the Cardinals.
2005-05-11 17:01:45
137.   HeeHateMe
Choi Fan club name:

bee bim boppers

2005-05-11 17:03:11
138.   Steve
Everywhere I look, I see potential replacements for Grabowski. Even among the non-existent.
2005-05-11 17:04:38
139.   franklin
On the Cedeno topic, I mentioned this in a thread the other night with no response--is Roger Cedeno seriously being paid over $5M this season. Really, this is not a rhetorical question. I need someone to tell me that ESPN has the info wrong.
2005-05-11 17:04:39
140.   Steve
How much respect can I possibly lose for Tony LaRussa over a four game series?
2005-05-11 17:06:31
141.   Xeifrank
Have you all seen this before?

Korean cartoon of the LA Dodgers. This cartoonist made one for each team. This image shows the captions translated to english. Milton Bradley is imploding in all the cells.



2005-05-11 17:07:51
142.   Johnson
Oh, goody. Joe Morgan. Again.
2005-05-11 17:09:47
143.   Bob Timmermann
And the Nats retake the lead on a pinch single by Tony Blanco.

Yeah, that Tony Blanco.

2005-05-11 17:09:59
144.   LAT

I will display my Jr. High honor proudly. Its stupid stuff like that which keeps me crackin myself up.

2005-05-11 17:09:59
145.   Suffering Bruin
139 - You were selling him short.

Roger Cedeno will make 5.875 million dollars for the 2005 season.

2005-05-11 17:12:32
146.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
A fine start.
Keep it going, Choi.
2005-05-11 17:12:48
147.   Steve
That's funny, because my opinion is that Cedeno should have caught that ball.
2005-05-11 17:12:58
148.   Jim Hitchcock
What was up with that call, Steiner?
2005-05-11 17:13:49
149.   regfairfield
Cedeno has a average in the high .300's against Penny. Granted, it's in something like 13 at bats, but at least it has a phony justification.
2005-05-11 17:13:51
150.   Aug C
Um, so I guess the "Fabio" story isn't real...

Xeifrank, did you intend your post as a joke?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-11 17:13:52
151.   Mr Customer
Leadoff Double = Good Omen
2005-05-11 17:14:24
152.   Borchard504
Steve - I am with you on La Russa. Xeifrank is a funny guy :) Dodger's starting off great - I guess ESPN is a good luck charm.
2005-05-11 17:15:10
153.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers are faring slightly better today against Suppan than in Game 4 of the DS.
2005-05-11 17:16:10
154.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Didn't bring the runner home - $20 fine in the kangaroo court.
2005-05-11 17:17:02
155.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Speaking of runners coming home from third, who else is looking forward to watching Suppan run the bases!
2005-05-11 17:17:06
156.   Xeifrank
Yes, Fabio story was a joke. It was my old April Fools Day post from 2004, slightly modified as a few players have changed teams.

Go Dodgers!

Penny Over/Under: 7 innings.



2005-05-11 17:17:16
157.   LAT
Come on Tracy, this is a perfect spot to let Fabio pinch hit.
2005-05-11 17:17:32
158.   Steve
Let me guess...Joe Morgan noted with gravitas that that was an unproductive out.
2005-05-11 17:18:21
159.   Xeifrank
Dodger win expectancy is up to 52.1% with one out top of the first, with runners on first and third.



2005-05-11 17:18:48
160.   kegtron
Penny under 7 innings.

Reason: High pitch count.

2005-05-11 17:20:11
161.   Jacob L
A productive out! Take that, Joe.
2005-05-11 17:20:13
162.   Steve
The Cardinals B Announcing Team is patronizing Milton Bradley as we speak. Extremely annoying.
2005-05-11 17:20:26
163.   Xeifrank
Yay! Sac-Fly, did Joe Morgan like it? :)

Dodger win expectancy up to 56.2% now.



2005-05-11 17:21:59
164.   wkk
Argh! At work in NoCal and Gameday isn't updating!
2005-05-11 17:22:11
165.   Johnson
Xeifrank #163 - yep, he sure did! I think he thought the sac fly was better than a base hit in the same situation.
2005-05-11 17:23:42
166.   alex 7
feel cheated with only 1 run out of that. Drew hasn't done much in a while. Excited about Penny throwing 94 mph fastballs to Pujols, should be three fun at bats.
2005-05-11 17:24:35
167.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Drew may still be under the weather after his bout with food poisoning.
2005-05-11 17:27:04
168.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Base hit? Home cooking from the scorer...
2005-05-11 17:28:27
169.   Steve
The Cardinals B Announcing team is now trying to give Choi an error on that play. I'm not saying that Choi shouldn't have made the play or should have. Just saying that they are stupid. It's clearly not an error. In fact, I may end up going over to Morgan.
2005-05-11 17:29:20
170.   alex 7
what a lineup.
2005-05-11 17:29:31
171.   LAT
Need a DP!!!
2005-05-11 17:29:54
172.   Steve
Too bad Roger Cedeno's coming up for them.
2005-05-11 17:30:45
173.   Johnson
#169 Steve - why are you listening to the Cardinals B team? Is that the MLB Extra Innings TV broadcast?
2005-05-11 17:30:51
174.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I'm scoring that an error. He should've had that no problem.
I hate the unwritten rule in scoring that if a player doesn't touch the ball, then it's not an error.
Guess what? Buckner didn't touch Mookie's grounder.
2005-05-11 17:30:55
175.   alex 7
just waiting for the Cedeno DP groundball or K.
2005-05-11 17:30:56
176.   Mr Customer
ughh, must have outs!
2005-05-11 17:31:10
177.   Steve
We didn't give Roger Cedeno a big contract did we? Idiot B Announcer just said we did, then said Roger Cedeno's been a great addition. Morgan it is.
2005-05-11 17:31:28
178.   LAT
Nats 2
Az 2
2005-05-11 17:32:43
179.   LAT
Choi must be exhausted already
2005-05-11 17:32:46
180.   Bob Timmermann
It's a Festival of Productive Outs!

Olneys for everyone!

2005-05-11 17:32:51
181.   alex 7
Cedeno is up to 205 lbs according to Not suggesting anything, just think that's quite a bit of weight.

On gamecast; should that have been a DP?

2005-05-11 17:33:26
182.   Mr Customer

Only a fleshwound. Now for more runs!

2005-05-11 17:33:42
183.   brendan glynn
Uh Oh. Penny hasn't thrown a fastball over 88.
2005-05-11 17:34:07
184.   Marty
Luckly Mabry swung on the first pitch. Maybe Penny can settle down now afte 20 pitches that inning.
2005-05-11 17:34:45
185.   Johnson
#181 alex 7 - No DP on that ball, it was too slow and pulled Choi too far off of the bag. He bobbled it, but if he hadn't he might have gotten the lead runner at 2nd.
2005-05-11 17:35:04
186.   Eric L
According to bb-ref, the most $$$ that Cedeno ever made as a Dodger was $280,000.

I believe it was the Mets (and Mr. Steve Phillips) that gave Cedeno more money than he ever deserved.

2005-05-11 17:35:35
187.   Steve
Sorry about that Gold Star...these guys driving me to Joe Morgan brings out the cutthroat in me.
2005-05-11 17:35:39
188.   franklin
Damn you and your bloated contract, Señor Cedeno!
2005-05-11 17:35:55
189.   Jon Weisman
Cedeno was never given a big contract by the Dodgers. It was the Mets or someone like that.
2005-05-11 17:36:01
190.   the OZ
Is Saenz playing because Robles couldn't handle that tough foul pop-up last night? Because I'm pretty sure Saenz isn't getting to that ball, either.
2005-05-11 17:36:37
191.   GoBears
re 181: That would have been a tough DP with Cedeno (205 or no 205) running. Still, he was lucky to get 1 out. Then he made a very good play on the next ball.
2005-05-11 17:37:31
192.   Bob Timmermann
First Houston, then New York (Mets) gave Cedeno good free agent deals.
2005-05-11 17:38:00
193.   Mr Customer
Dear me, an Olmedo Saenz infield single! Say it ain't so!
2005-05-11 17:38:59
194.   alex 7
thanks Johnson. re:183, definitely not a good sign. And we used quite a few relievers last night. Fortunately, the Cards are in the same boat and Suppan might not make it to the 5th.

Lol, ok, Saenz reached on an IF single? Someone will HAVE to give us the breakdown on that one.

2005-05-11 17:39:11
195.   Eric L

He was still arb eligible when he was with Houston (and he was in the Mike Hampton deal).

2005-05-11 17:39:37
196.   chumsferd
Saenz will probably play third whenever Penny pitches, cause penny is not a groundball pitcher (as evidenced by the numerous grounders to choi in the first).

This is, of course, unless we're facing a lefty, in which he'd play first

2005-05-11 17:40:12
197.   Steve
Oh God...Morgan is driving me back to the Cardinals B team. This is hell.
2005-05-11 17:40:23
198.   Johnson
#194 - The Saenz infield single was a shot to the SS/3B hole that Eckstein was lucky to just knock down.
2005-05-11 17:40:33
199.   GoBears
He hit it into the 5.5 hole. Eckstein got a glove on it, diving, but just knocked it down and couldn't do anything with it. Basically, a seeing-eye single that the SS kept out of the OF.
2005-05-11 17:41:03
200.   Fearing Blue
Steve, I feel your pain. Morgan is currently wasting time bashing the trade at the deadline last year. Ignoring the fact that Choi is currently hitting better than Green.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-11 17:41:25
201.   the OZ
RE 194 and Saenz infield single - it was a ground ball through the shortstop hole. Eckstein managed to knock it down with a dive, prompting this quote from Steve Lyons on the replay:

"Eckstein took two steps and dove, but couldn't get to the ground quick enough."

Considering Eckstein is practically starting from ground level on every play anyway, it was amusing to me.

2005-05-11 17:41:49
202.   Steve
Did I just hear that Saenz was going? My head hurts. I think I need a night off.
2005-05-11 17:43:32
203.   LAT
Steve, stop complaining I am forced to listed to Monday and Downing on the radio. At least you can see what happens. Gamecast is fasted and clearer than Monday.
2005-05-11 17:44:17
204.   Fearing Blue
"Running yourself out of an inning" is a theory that Morgan doesn't subscribe to. In his world, attempting to steal is always a good thing.
2005-05-11 17:44:40
205.   alex 7
Are you flippin serious? Morgan already ranted on that during a Dodgers broadcast a few weeks ago. I can't wait for ESPN to completely sell out and allow us to vote off announcers American Idol style.
2005-05-11 17:45:16
206.   LAT
Pesky D'Backs go up 3-2 on Nats.
2005-05-11 17:45:54
207.   GoBears
I know Morgan stole a lot of bases in his day. Did he get caught a lot? What was his success rate. Uh, never mind, I'll find it and report back (sheesh, I'm lazy...)
2005-05-11 17:46:41
208.   Chris H
I am the only one that is annoyed that the game is blacked out on HD? Very annoying...
2005-05-11 17:48:12
209.   GoBears
Here we go. Morgan's stats:

SB: 689
CS: 162

By the old math, that's an 81% success rate. Maybe he's just modest and doesn't realize that most players aren't as good as he was. Or maybe he's a moron.

2005-05-11 17:49:32
210.   GoBears
Senior Cheerios just denied Izturis an out. Knocked the ball into the outfield. Oh well, at least he got his uni dirty. The sign of a great player.
2005-05-11 17:50:20
211.   the OZ
You can't pur a price on heart like that.
2005-05-11 17:50:49
212.   Eric L
Morgan doesn't seem like a moron, but he sure is ignorant at times.
2005-05-11 17:50:49
213.   GoBears
Sorry about the "Senior." Didn't feel like figuring out the tilde.
2005-05-11 17:54:50
214.   regfairfield
Well today he called Barry Bonds the best all around player in baseball. That can't be the sign of a sane man.
2005-05-11 17:55:03
215.   Johnson
#213 - Señor. Jeez, that's easy on a Mac. Option-N N is a lot easier to remember than Alt-random-4-digit-number. Plus, if you need to write in Portugese, Option-N O gives you the similar character: õ.
2005-05-11 17:55:12
216.   the OZ
Kick save!
2005-05-11 17:55:19
217.   GoBears
Ho! Nice 12-6 curve by Penny to start against Eckstein. Looked like a banana. Of course, he paid for it on the next pitch....
2005-05-11 17:55:52
218.   GoBears
Penny has induced 4 outs so far in this inning. Unfortunately, only 2 were recorded.
2005-05-11 17:56:40
219.   GoBears
2005-05-11 17:56:43
220.   joekings
Penny is not looking very good.
2005-05-11 17:56:44
221.   Steve
See, that pitch was a strike to Choi yesterday. That was my point.

Is it too late to take the under?

2005-05-11 17:57:11
222.   the OZ
2005-05-11 17:58:04
223.   GoBears
Nice play.
2005-05-11 17:58:41
224.   MSarg29
hell of a play by izzy
2005-05-11 17:58:50
225.   LAT
Drew's play is giving me the flu
2005-05-11 18:00:50
226.   Mr Customer
Penny's velocity still down?
2005-05-11 18:01:31
227.   GoBears
Morgan must be peeing his pants over Izzy's IF hit.
2005-05-11 18:02:01
228.   Fearing Blue
#221: I agree. There's a stark difference in the strike zone from yesterday to today.
2005-05-11 18:02:19
229.   regfairfield
Our shortstop is at least as scrappy as theirs, if not more.
2005-05-11 18:02:41
230.   stevo
wow great baserunning
2005-05-11 18:02:41
231.   Jim Hitchcock
2005-05-11 18:02:51
232.   Chris H
Way to go Choi!
2005-05-11 18:02:57
233.   GoBears

Didn't it look like Walker was going to get that?

2005-05-11 18:03:09
234.   MSarg29
nice throw by Grudz huh
2005-05-11 18:03:30
235.   Mr Customer
2005-05-11 18:03:37
236.   the OZ
Grudzielanek's relay was possibly the worst throw I've seen since my Uncle Julio airmailed the backstop from centerfield in a softball game.
2005-05-11 18:03:37
237.   Blue Crew
Nice hustle.
2005-05-11 18:03:50
238.   Mr Customer
2005-05-11 18:04:01
239.   Mr Customer
2005-05-11 18:04:04
240.   Johnson
#226 - I'm not sure about the earlier reports (interjection: CHOI!!!) about Penny's velocity. The ESPN gun had him up to at least 94 on one occasion in the first, mostly 92/93 from my recollection. I don't know what gun was used for the other reports.
2005-05-11 18:04:24
241.   brendan glynn

yes, still down

2005-05-11 18:04:33
242.   LAT
"If I come out of the game, then no homer," the South Korean native said. "Good for me."

Choi keeps it going

2005-05-11 18:04:53
243.   MSarg29
nice play by pujols..saved a double down the line
2005-05-11 18:05:36
244.   brendan glynn
240. fox sports hasn't broken 90. maybe it's off

I prefer to think that. looked like 2nd inning was faster

2005-05-11 18:05:46
245.   GoBears
Wow, Pujols now owed JD dinner or somethin'. Great grab.
2005-05-11 18:06:45
246.   GoBears
They're teeing off on Suppan. Here's hoping he stays in a while.
2005-05-11 18:06:52
247.   MSarg29
on the gun displayed on the cards feed...Penny has been about 91-92
2005-05-11 18:07:15
248.   alex 7
what a machine Izturis has become. Time for me to vote him onto the all-star team.

Is it me or have the Dodgers done a great job of taking extra bases on throws this year? Just something that I seem to read on gamecast almost every game.

Looks like it'll come down to the bullpen again, Houlton might get a big chance tonight.

2005-05-11 18:07:33
249.   GoBears
Or maybe it's just all those slow curve balls. Makes it look like everyone is taking huge swings.....
2005-05-11 18:07:38
250.   Johnson
#244 - I'm pretty sure that on one of the fouls down the first base line in the 1st that was 93 on the ESPN gun was 94 on the Busch gun (from a quick glimpse at the side scoreboard). So there must be at least three guns there. Who knows which one is right?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-05-11 18:08:09
251.   Jon Weisman
The gun on yesterday's FSN2 telecast was fast, FYI. They had a Yhency pitch at 101.
2005-05-11 18:08:20
252.   brendan glynn
so we have 87-88 Fox. 91-92 cards. and 94 espn.

sounds about right

2005-05-11 18:09:19
253.   brendan glynn

that's what I thought, Jon. that is why I was worried when I saw 87-88. maybe they corrected it too much

2005-05-11 18:09:20
254.   scareduck
tilde n -- ñ -- ñ
2005-05-11 18:10:43
255.   brendan glynn
ok, now were good. 93 on the gun and lyons said that was the first time he broke 90. so I'm not going crazy.
2005-05-11 18:11:10
256.   GoBears
I think the Fox gun is off. Penny's throwing harder than that. He is using lots of curves, tho.
2005-05-11 18:11:19
257.   the OZ
Penny hit 93 on the FSN gun before King Edmonds on a high curveball. Steiner commented that Penny's thrown a lot of breaking stuff tonight...he's either pitching backward or isn't comfortable with the fastball. My guess is, he'll crank it up to 95 in an inning or so.
2005-05-11 18:11:27
258.   brendan glynn
2005-05-11 18:11:36
259.   the OZ
King = "K-ing" as in "Striking Out."
2005-05-11 18:14:12
260.   GoBears
Hee-Seop is not having his best day at first. A couple of those were not his fault, but he should have gotten a couple of them. Or at least knocked them down.
2005-05-11 18:14:25
261.   MSarg29
would be nice if choi came up w/ that
2005-05-11 18:14:36
262.   brendan glynn
choi gives 2 and creates 2 runs.
2005-05-11 18:15:10
263.   the OZ
Izturis has saved 2 runs tonight.
2005-05-11 18:15:27
264.   GoBears
Izzy saves Penny's bacon a second time tonight.
2005-05-11 18:15:37
265.   Johnson
Wow. Without Izturis, this game is already out of reach.
2005-05-11 18:15:39
266.   stevo
climb that lasser izzy!
2005-05-11 18:15:49
267.   brendan glynn
when all is in doubt, Izzy is there
2005-05-11 18:16:06
268.   stevo
2005-05-11 18:17:14
269.   GoBears
Those last 2, by Grudz and Diaz, were the hardest-hit balls off of Penny. I wonder if he's OK. 53 pitches in 3 innings. As my Dad used to say, "Not one of his more stellar performances."
2005-05-11 18:17:40
270.   Steve
The Tracy Police are hovering over this game. Penny is getting killed.
2005-05-11 18:19:32
271.   Johnson
On the bright side, Suppan's throwing BP out there. Hopefully he's got, say, six more innings in him.
2005-05-11 18:19:36
272.   Blue Crew
right...penny looks to be laboring

and Izzy is a STUD!!!!!

2005-05-11 18:20:50
273.   the OZ
After last night, I can appreciate giving Penny (and Tracy) saome latitude for this game. Unlike Erickson, Penny at least throws hard and hasn't given up a HR. He's a much better bet to settle down than Erickson or Weaver.

Also, the defense hasn't exactly been spectacular.

Great. Phillips singles after a DP.

2005-05-11 18:21:03
274.   Strike4
A bit of a stretch here BT (see 101), but at least it's topical…

The initial high tide of favorable city council sentiment towards Angels owner Arte Moreno continued to recede yesterday, uncovering the littoral odors of economic cost-benefit concerns for local government investments in construction and leases of major league stadiums.

2005-05-11 18:23:13
275.   Strike4
Steve Lyons is going the Tim McCarver route. Last inning about Choi taking third, "great heads up move on the overthrow... as long as he's safe."
2005-05-11 18:23:49
276.   Bob Timmermann
I was thinking more along the lines of
Moreno's name change is way of him trying to stake out a claim to the LA/Orange County littoral.
2005-05-11 18:23:57
277.   scareduck
The Jim Police they live inside of my head
The Jim Police make other moves in his stead
2005-05-11 18:25:33
278.   the OZ
Lyons commenting that Penny, a pitcher, should be able to hit better:

"After all, they [pitchers] could hit in high school. So why can't they hit now?"

Considering most hitters drafted out of high school for their sweet swings can't hit even AA or AAA pitching, I don't expect anything more of the pitchers.

Ask Joe Thurston and Jason Romano about how much harder it is to hit in the bigs than in high school.

2005-05-11 18:25:39
279.   Steve
Sure, Brad Penny's not Scott Erickson. But they are hitting the ball hard, and the defense (including Choi) has made some nice plays that have saved runs. I'm just saying this is no night for Tracy's "They weren't hitting the ball very hard" nonsense.

Saenz gets out of Izturis' way on that one. Good strategy.

2005-05-11 18:26:57
280.   alex 7
I'm predicting goose eggs for both teams till the 6th.

(secretly wishing that somehow Izturis and Choi can go 3 for 3)

2005-05-11 18:27:04
281.   Steve
I know everyone is going to think I'm crazy, but that throw from Grudzielanek looked too good to the backup man -- planned?
2005-05-11 18:27:47
282.   brendan glynn
Humid weather and Penny do not go together. He's a Big Boy
2005-05-11 18:28:25
283.   the OZ
281 - I'd buy. LaRussa is insane.
2005-05-11 18:28:31
284.   Eric L
Hell, Lyons didn't hit very much and he wasn't a pitcher...
2005-05-11 18:28:55
285.   alex 7
re:278 It must be because he's not trying hard enough.
2005-05-11 18:30:17
286.   stevo
anyone know the pitch count?
2005-05-11 18:30:53
287.   Steve
Maybe you just write this game off as Penny has nothing.

LaRussa trying to run himself out of another inning.

2005-05-11 18:32:25
288.   the OZ
2005-05-11 18:32:48
289.   regfairfield
Our inability to get Eckstein out is starting to get on my nerves.
2005-05-11 18:33:27
290.   the OZ
Hitting him is OK, too. It's good for the ol' pitch count.
2005-05-11 18:33:35
291.   MSarg29
pujols didnt want to go to first
2005-05-11 18:34:05
292.   Steve
I love a hitter who not only doesn't want to take the base, but I wouldn't if I were him either. Now you walk Edmonds and pitch to Cedeno.
2005-05-11 18:34:11
293.   GoBears
73 pitches so far.
2005-05-11 18:34:37
294.   Eric L
or hit him..

Still, I don't think you should walk Pujols.. he still gets out 68% of the time...

2005-05-11 18:35:05
295.   Eric L
And I apologize for bad math, 58% of the time...
2005-05-11 18:35:20
296.   MSarg29
where is the strike zone?
2005-05-11 18:35:45
297.   alex 7
pitch count around 80 according to gamecast
2005-05-11 18:36:20
298.   GoBears
2005-05-11 18:36:46
299.   scareduck
Gee, how predictable was that -- high fastball strikes out Edmonds. How many days has that happened? And how many more outs like that will the Dodgers actually be able to get?
2005-05-11 18:36:55
300.   Johnson
16 hits combined in the first four innings of this game. Yikes. Let's not give Suppan the first 1-2-3 inning of the game.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-05-11 18:37:00
301.   alex 7
but it's what he does with the other 42% of the at bats that's scary.
2005-05-11 18:37:18
302.   GoBears
Penny finished the 4th having thrown 77 pitches. Unless he just breezes next inning, it's likely his last.
2005-05-11 18:38:26
303.   scareduck
I don't think this has anything to do with humidity, it's that Penny's a straight fastball pitcher, and this lineup just kills those kinds of guys.
2005-05-11 18:39:32
304.   the OZ
Somehow, Suppan's only thrown 57 pitches.
2005-05-11 18:40:07
305.   alex 7
my goodness, maybe he isn't human after all.
2005-05-11 18:40:43
306.   GoBears
303 -

I dunno. He's not working as quickly as usual. He's missing his spots. He's throwing a lot of off-speed pitches. I just think it's not his night. Hopefully it's nothing worse than a bad hair day.

2005-05-11 18:40:54
307.   stevo
yea penny used to pitch in the humidifier aka pro player stadium, and he was pretty good
2005-05-11 18:42:12
308.   stevo
#280 wish granted
2005-05-11 18:42:14
309.   GoBears
Well, there ya go, alex 7. Two 3-3s, as you requested.
2005-05-11 18:42:53
310.   the OZ
From Steiner:

[shot of LaRussa giving signs]

Steiner: "LaRussa giving some signs in the dugout."

[Suppan makes a pickoff throw to first]

Steiner: "He was probably signing for a pickoff."


2005-05-11 18:42:56
311.   Jerry
Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but every hitter in the lineup--except for Drew and Penny--is hitting .300. Wow. When was the last time 7 Dodger regulars were hitting .300 at the same time?
2005-05-11 18:43:03
312.   brendan glynn

Exactly, you made my point. he was always done after six there too.

2005-05-11 18:43:17
313.   MSarg29
i cant believe they keep throwing Choi breaking balls. Lucky for us.
2005-05-11 18:43:45
314.   alex 7
let's go drew, can't waste a 6-6 performance by your top two guys...
2005-05-11 18:44:14
315.   franklin
Now would be a great time to earn some of that salary, J.D.
2005-05-11 18:45:01
316.   GoBears
JD looks sick. Like he's just trying to get thru this AB without yakking.
2005-05-11 18:46:01
317.   Chris H
Drew got ripped off there.
2005-05-11 18:46:16
318.   alex 7
dangit, almost makes you wish Tracy ordered a bunt there. Kent's due for an oppo double.
2005-05-11 18:46:23
319.   GoBears
and that 3rd strike call mioght push him over the edge.
2005-05-11 18:47:50
320.   the OZ
Although, it would have been funny if he barfed all over home plate after a call he disagreed with.
2005-05-11 18:48:54
321.   GoBears
If it were up to Steiner, Einar Diaz and David Eckstein would be in the Hall of Fame. And Vinnie would add Craig Counsell and Vinnie Castilla.
2005-05-11 18:49:45
322.   GoBears
Aw, rats!
2005-05-11 18:50:02
323.   MSarg29
now i'm sick
2005-05-11 18:50:07
324.   GoBears
This is all Hee-Seop's fault for selfishly hitting singles.
2005-05-11 18:50:31
325.   the OZ
No productive outs that inning. That's not SmartBall™.
2005-05-11 18:50:42
326.   franklin
instead Dave Duncan earns his salary.
2005-05-11 18:51:12
327.   alex 7
what a waste. quick inning here for Penny then a pinch hitter next inning.
2005-05-11 18:51:59
328.   Bob Timmermann
Vinnie also wants Pedro Feliz in the Hall of Fame.
2005-05-11 18:52:55
329.   Steve
I agree with Bears. Drew looks ill.

Cedeno hitting fifth is an embarrassment to the Cardinal organization. Penny can throw that high pitch to Edmonds because if Edmonds doesn't bite, Cedeno is an automatic out anyway.

2005-05-11 18:53:28
330.   MSarg29
321 - hit that one on the head
2005-05-11 18:54:37
331.   the OZ
A strikeout of John Mabry is still a strikeout.
2005-05-11 18:55:16
332.   MSarg29
Colby getting into choi's face about his fielding.
2005-05-11 19:00:37
333.   GoBears
Geez, Penny, you're facing the pitcher with 2 outs! Don't worry so much about the baserunners.
2005-05-11 19:00:52
334.   GoBears
Oh well.
2005-05-11 19:01:19
335.   Steve
Another 0-2 meatball to a pitcher.
2005-05-11 19:01:47
336.   the OZ
We can't score with 2 on and none out, but that Cards get a run with two outs on a Single, Walk, and single by the pitcher.

Unreal. Can we get Grudzielanek, Eckstein, or Suppan out? Please?

2005-05-11 19:02:02
337.   GoBears
98 pitches for Penny. He's definitely done if he manages to get Eckstein out (that might take 15 more).
2005-05-11 19:03:01
338.   MSarg29
this is ridiculous
2005-05-11 19:03:17
339.   scareduck
Anybody want Paul LoDuca back?

That's called mild sarcasm.

2005-05-11 19:03:38
340.   the OZ
That's what you get for walking Einar Diaz.
2005-05-11 19:04:10
341.   alex 7
I would have pulled him after the Suppan single following the walk... dang it tracy.
2005-05-11 19:04:21
342.   GoBears
Ugh. Here comes Tracy, closing the barn door after the horse has crapped in his soup. Or something like that.
2005-05-11 19:04:26
343.   the OZ
Well, at least Tracy is [slowly] learning.
2005-05-11 19:05:32
344.   MSarg29
good move bringing Alvarez in
2005-05-11 19:05:38
345.   Steve
I really don't want to hear anymore about Hee Seop Choi's defense. Brad Penny was embarrassingly awful tonight, and I'm tired of lame excuses from garbage like Scott Erickson trying to turn media fantasy into reality.

Tonight after game:

Beat writer: "What's up, Brad?"

BP: I pitched like #^*($#^$.

Really all that needs to be said.

2005-05-11 19:07:20
346.   GoBears
Huh. You don't see that every day.
2005-05-11 19:07:33
347.   brendan glynn
thank you, Larry
2005-05-11 19:07:57
348.   Fearing Blue
Morgan makes a good point about the pitch Penny threw to Suppan. Why groove a fastball to the opposing pitcher with a two-strike count?
2005-05-11 19:08:39
349.   brendan glynn
Don't know if they scored that run. Steiner couldn't figure it out before commercial
2005-05-11 19:09:05
350.   Steve
341 is an excellent example of The Grabowski Principle, when a pitcher does something so heinous that he shouldn't be allowed to make it worse. I concur.

I wish the Cardinal broadcast would as laboriously deconstruct the umpires blowing that call as they did the Drew ground ball yesterday.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-05-11 19:09:43
351.   brendan glynn
walker bunted down 3rd base line and the runner might have scored before the tag out at 3rd by olmedo
2005-05-11 19:09:43
352.   the OZ
Will I trade a run for an out in that situation? Yes I will. Is having Pujols bat next inning with the bases empty a good thing for the Dodgers? Yes it is. Should Tracy double-switch if Alvarez's spot comes up this inning? I depends.
2005-05-11 19:10:53
353.   Steve
But 347 is right -- they blew a golden opportunity, and if the umpires hadn't blown the call, they would have gotten nothing out of it at all.
2005-05-11 19:12:29
354.   Bob Timmermann
Why the heck was Suppan sliding into home on that play?
2005-05-11 19:12:33
355.   MSarg29
what was eckstein doing there?
2005-05-11 19:13:24
356.   GoBears
Nope. Bad call. Tag was first. But that's a tough one. They almost have to guess. They should change the rule. How can any ump see both plays?
2005-05-11 19:13:31
357.   the OZ
Suppan clearly didn't reach the plate before Saenz's tag. But I didn't need the replay to know that there's no way Jeff Suppan runs from 3rd to home before Eckstein runs from 2nd to 3rd.
2005-05-11 19:14:37
358.   Steve
Umpires are still having a bad season.
2005-05-11 19:15:36
359.   MSarg29
354 - Maybe he didnt want to be Jetered like Jeremy Giambi
2005-05-11 19:20:34
360.   Fearing Blue
The Cardinals don't score any runs if the home plate umpire makes the right call on the 3-2 curveball to Diaz. The strike zone has been horrible tonight.
2005-05-11 19:21:16
361.   GoBears
jeez, I can't EVER remember so many chances for a first baseman. Several of the hits were solid singles - no chance - but they're all between Choi and Kent. Plus Choi has made 4-5 plays. This is ridiculous.
2005-05-11 19:23:05
362.   the OZ

"LaRussa and Tracy are two of the best managers at planning strategy, even 2 and three innings in advance."

2005-05-11 19:23:51
363.   Steve
360 -- When the pitcher singling on an 0-2 count is an intervening event, I am loathe to blame the umpire for what happened.

But you are correct, the strike zone tonight has been appalling. And of course they missed the Drew groundout, the Eckstein tag out yesterday, and now allowed the run to score when it shouldn't have tonight.

2005-05-11 19:24:30
364.   GoBears
Oh man. Now Steiner and Lyons are rhapsodizing on how LaRussa and Tracy are two of the best managers in baseball, esp. as regards in-game strategizing. Wha-HUH?!! I think they just jumped the shark.
2005-05-11 19:25:20
365.   Steve
LaRussa and Tracy are putting the Monkey Theory of Managing severely to the test.
2005-05-11 19:25:50
366.   Fearing Blue
Is Grabowski injured?
2005-05-11 19:26:27
367.   GoBears
14 hits for the bad guys. Hard to win when you allow that. No matter how good the umps are.
2005-05-11 19:27:56
368.   GoBears
366 - Maybe Steve snuck over to St. Louis last night and pulled his hamstring for him (was gonna say "groin" but that would have been wrong).
2005-05-11 19:27:59
369.   Bob Timmermann
The third out rule has been around for much of baseball's history. And since I've seen baseball games in person, I've never seen an inning quite the way the bottom of the 5th did. Usually you just see the timing plays on cutoff plays.
2005-05-11 19:28:36
370.   GoBears
That was NOT a strike. This ump is awful.
2005-05-11 19:28:40
371.   Steve
I can't believe he called that strike three after the zone he's been calling. Again, not blaming the umpire for losing. But that's just not fair.
2005-05-11 19:29:14
372.   Fearing Blue
It has to be a real challenge to be a straight fastball pitcher when you can't get strikes on any of the corners.
2005-05-11 19:29:38
373.   Johnson
Drew and Robles were both called out on strikes on pitches lower than ball four to Diaz. Ugh.
2005-05-11 19:29:55
374.   GoBears
Geez, and now the ump wanders in front of Diaz, who was going to chase a foul ball. Didn't matter (out of play), but is he even paying attention?
2005-05-11 19:35:00
375.   alex 7
gamecast is forever frozen on the bottom of the 5th inning I guess
2005-05-11 19:35:55
376.   Steve
Grabowski needed a rest. Tracy felt that he had been over-using him, and didn't want to go to him too early in the game.
2005-05-11 19:36:31
377.   Steve
Alex, try closing your gamecast and reopening it.
2005-05-11 19:37:14
378.   MSarg29
i cant believe we let suppan off the hook tonight. We had him on the ropes, I do hope Larussa has him bat though.
2005-05-11 19:37:57
379.   Langhorne
I don't think Penny was embarrassingly awful untill he got to Diaz and Suppan in the 5th. He certainly wasn't sharp but he kept it close and threw very few really bad pitches. If he could've gotten Diaz it would still be 3-3. If Choi makes a couple of plays it's 3-1. But there's plenty of blame to go around. I would give most of it to Drew, Kent and Bradley. But there's still time for them to redeem themselves.
2005-05-11 19:38:16
380.   Bob Timmermann
I believe F4 refreshes Gameday. Or F5.

Whatever. It won't hurt.

2005-05-11 19:38:29
381.   Fearing Blue
Wow.. LaRussa pulling the ultimate Tracy by pinch-hitting for a pitcher with another pitcher.
2005-05-11 19:38:42
382.   MSarg29
to quote Moe Syzlak...."Whaaaahhh?"
2005-05-11 19:40:47
383.   GoBears
Schmoll enjoyed the Phillips Follies on that foul tip. Nice to see he's got a sense of humor about it. Tough play - JP didn't have time to take his mask off.
2005-05-11 19:40:52
384.   gvette
Penny's pitching line tonight is almost identical with Erickson's disaster. Can't blame this one on Robles.

What's the over/under on Lowe making it past 4 2/3 innings tomorrow?

2005-05-11 19:41:09
385.   Aug C
Schmoll pitches with the bases empty as if Scott Podsednik was on first base.
2005-05-11 19:41:10
386.   MSarg29
how does Phillips get an error on that play and Choi doesnt? Doesnt the official scorer have some sort of philosophy?
2005-05-11 19:43:17
387.   GoBears
386 - Pretty much rule-based. Choi never touched the ball(s?) that got past him, so the presumption is that they took bad hops or were too sharply hit. Phillips's play bounced out of his mitt (on the fly). That MUST be scored an error. I agree with the spirit of your question, tho. And while I'm typing, another ball goes thru Hee-Seop.
2005-05-11 19:44:01
388.   GoBears
Just saw the replay. That one was not Choi's fault. It was blistered, and he was moving the wrong way, after holding the runner.
2005-05-11 19:44:18
389.   Steve
The 0-1 pitch to Marquis was the pitch that Oscar Robles struck out on. So of course, the umpire called it a ball.

Penny was bad enough that I don't want to read a bunch of Choi-bashing in the paper tomorrow. That's my point. But I stick by "embarrassingly awful." They left ten guys on.

Yeah, there's another one Choi "didn't get." I just know this is going to be an issue and that would be absurd. Particularly when Choi is replacing "Gold Glove candidate" Shawn Green.

2005-05-11 19:44:24
390.   Langhorne
Can we add Eckstein to your list?
2005-05-11 19:45:06
391.   GoBears
Wow. Pujols was on his way to 1st before that pitch even crossed the plate. I actually thought he was calling time-out.
2005-05-11 19:45:19
392.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I'm scoring Phillips' bobble as a nothing play, no error.
2005-05-11 19:45:44
393.   MSarg29
I just thought the play on Phillips was just so tough for a catcher that he should be allowed some latitude. Hee Seop needs to knock some of these down, though that was smoked.
2005-05-11 19:46:56
394.   GoBears
Schmoll has already thrown 26 pitches.
2005-05-11 19:47:14
395.   alex 7
no luck on gamecast, sportsline it is. 0-8 from our 3-4-5 hitters, yuck. Why is Schmoll out there pitching to Walker???
2005-05-11 19:48:43
396.   gvette
Any estimate on how many Cardinal hits went down the first base line tonight?
2005-05-11 19:49:58
397.   Fearing Blue
#389: It's unbelievable the standards that each player on this team is held up to by the media. Choi goes 3 for 4, raising his OPS to .969, but he can't get to 3 balls that roughly 50% of 1Bs can't get to, and that's going to be the story.
2005-05-11 19:51:09
398.   Langhorne
My point is that this is one of the worst all-around games I've seen the Dodgers play this year. I'll be upset if Choi gets all the blame, too. But bad Penny seems not nearly as bad as our other pitchers when they're off. That's not much comfort, though.
2005-05-11 19:52:08
399.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I have six hits and an error (Walker in the 1st - my scorecard, my scoring) going to RF. Not sure how many were down the line.
2005-05-11 19:54:39
400.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
A four-run lead in the 8th inning, and LaRussa is doing the LOOGY thing.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-05-11 19:54:39
401.   Fearing Blue
#398: Agreed.
2005-05-11 19:55:57
402.   Steve
Of course, I'm on record as hating our pitching staff, and both Erickson's performance on the field and after didn't help. I think our offense is going to have to carry us, and I think it can. Whoever it was made a good point that Kent and Drew deserve a lot of blame for tonight. Though, Drew does look sick. Anyway, I am selling Perez and Weaver stock like it's Enron. Erickson spoke for himself. Anyone can get blown out by the Cards, so I'm holding on Penny, but he's just one guy.

Pujols almost didn't make that play. I mean, how is Choi supposed to play all these rockets Penny et. al are allowing hitters to hit past him?

Anyway, I guess this is a round about way of saying that either the kids better grow up quick, or some of them are going to have to go for some pitching help. It is way too early to do anything rash, but I think Brazoban is going to prove very valuable, and I don't think DePodesta will repeat Evans' mistake of 2003 if it comes to that.

2005-05-11 19:56:00
403.   Ben P
I'll now repeat my thoughts on Choi's defense for, unfortunately, the third time in about a week: Good at scooping throws, average to below-average range and reflexes. We'll just have to live with it.
2005-05-11 19:58:20
404.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
3-4-5 hitters go 0-fer-11.
2005-05-11 19:58:49
405.   Steve
And it doesn't help when Eckstein gets standing ovations for making routine plays.
2005-05-11 20:01:40
406.   MSarg29
I agree Ben P
2005-05-11 20:02:29
407.   gvette
Looks like this is just one of those 60 games of the season that nothing goes right no matter what.

Despite what happened around Choi tonight, Saenz and his half a step range at 3B is positively frightening. Is the Oscar Robles era at 3B already over?

2005-05-11 20:03:50
408.   GoBears
Oh my. Did Mabry hit that off the ground? That was a sand wedge single.
2005-05-11 20:03:59
409.   Fearing Blue
#402: Our starting pitching is lacking, though DS helps hide the deficiencies. Penny is good, but got spanked tonight. Lowe is only slightly better than league-average. Weaver and Perez are basically league-average. Erickson is, well, I think we all know what Erickson is.

Our bullpen once Gagne returns is one of the best. Brazoban and Gagne should be the best 8/9 inning combo in the majors. Alvarez is a great swingman. I'm a little concerned about Carrara, but he's pitching well so far. Sanchez and Dessens are succeeding on smoke and mirrors. Houlton has single-handedly disproved DIPS. Schmoll needs more seasoning in AAA.

2005-05-11 20:05:09
410.   Fearing Blue
#405: I was about to post about Eckstein. Every throw it looks like he's going to send half his body to 1B with the ball. Fans love the (appearance of) effort.
2005-05-11 20:06:23
411.   Fearing Blue
If we can take out Eckstein and Grudzielanek, I'll feel much better about tomorrow's game.
2005-05-11 20:06:42
412.   MSarg29
Heck of an outing for Houlton huh?
2005-05-11 20:07:39
413.   MSarg29
I would love to see a swing and a miss.
2005-05-11 20:07:57
414.   Fearing Blue
I no longer want Houlton to be our 5th starter.
2005-05-11 20:08:22
415.   scareduck
What was it Tracy said the other day about Houlton having major-league pitches?
2005-05-11 20:09:55
416.   Fearing Blue
Time to take out Eckstein, Houlton. First base is open. You know what you need to do.
2005-05-11 20:10:32
417.   Ben P
Eckstein's arm may be weak, but x-rays have shown that his heart is the size of a bowling ball. Doctors have also detected a significant amount of "scrap."
2005-05-11 20:11:25
418.   Fearing Blue
Wow.. I didn't realize that all of Choi's fielding blunders were hits by Walker, but they just showed the replays. How bizzare.
2005-05-11 20:11:38
419.   Christina
I just got in from dinner - and when I made my date check the scores at the table, the game was 3-3. I haven't had time to read all the posts yet, but I gather Houlton is in, for some reason, and has blown the game?

How annoying is it that we are somehow able to pull out the game with our #5 "starter" but can't win with our ace? Game's not over yet, though...

2005-05-11 20:12:34
420.   Steve
Tracy has got to leave Houlton out there to die. I don't care if he gives up 20, or they're still playing until four in the morning.
2005-05-11 20:12:55
421.   Fearing Blue
If we all close our eyes, maybe bad things won't happen.
2005-05-11 20:15:26
422.   Ben P
Since looking at other team's rosters is more enjoyable than watching the game at this point, I wonder if we could swing a little deal to get Jose Hernandez back for our 3B merry-go-round. The Indians don't seem to have much use for him, and maybe a return to the Dodgers could bring back some of his 2004 magic.
2005-05-11 20:15:55
423.   Fearing Blue
Nice.. after tonight's outing, Houlton's BABIP is up to a sparkling .561.
2005-05-11 20:15:56
424.   Langhorne
Speaking as the great arm chair scout that I am, I think Choi's defensive suffers in the same way his offense had at times. When he's looked bad at the plate in the past it's because he's not using his lower body. When he turns his hips and steps into balls he's great. When he doesn't he ends up swinging with one arm. Likewise, he needs to use his legs and feet more to put himself in a position to be more successful defensively. I think he can do this and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is a better player defensively by the end of this season. This year is Izzy's. Next year Hee Soep will be the heart and Seoul of the Dodgers.
2005-05-11 20:16:03
425.   GoBears
19 hits?!
2005-05-11 20:17:34
426.   Steve
Fearing, the mistake Dan Evans made in 2003 was worrying so much about 8 and 9 when we couldn't get to 7. Like I say, it's too early and the offense may continue to roll and cover up the pitching. But we've been talking about fifth pitchers around here, and I'm not convinced that we have a third or a fourth. This particularly goes for Weaver, who every outing looks to me like he's one pitch from being back in Yankee Stadium being showered with boos.
2005-05-11 20:19:26
427.   Fearing Blue
#424: I agree. He needs to get his body in front of the ball. He tries to swipe at the ball, when he should just focus on knocking it down using his head, legs, chest, or whatever it takes.
2005-05-11 20:21:08
428.   Bob Timmermann
Well, day game tomorrow.

Do we all engage to see who has the lowest productivity at work?

2005-05-11 20:23:50
429.   Langhorne
Well, the Fat Lady is singing. Maybe if we ask nicely she'll eat David Eckstein for us. He wouldn't be more than a snack.
2005-05-11 20:26:07
430.   Fearing Blue
#426: I think Weaver is a decent starter. He should be able to keep us in most games, but he's going to get kicked around by powerhouse offenses. I understand what you're saying about 3rd / 4th, but I think it's actually a 1st starter that we're sorely missing. Penny is good, but he's no more than a solid 2nd. Lowe should be able to pitch like a 3rd. Perez and Weaver slot in nicely as a 4th and 5th. Without a first starter, even if we do make the playoffs, I don't think we're going to be able to do much more than last year. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Aces (TM) that will be available on the trade market, unless Florida spirals into oblivion and decides to trade Burnett.
2005-05-11 20:32:08
431.   Steve
I think this series makes clear that we can't beat the Cardinals in this shape without LaRussa's generous help, and even he doesn't leave Jarvis in in Game 2 of the NLDS (for instance). Of course, that leaves us in no worse position than last year, and it leaves us competitive for a year while the kids get ready. I understand all that. I'm on the bandwagon. But it's frustrating on some level as the irrational fan that I am. Plus, Jerry keeps trying to sell me Lowe and Weaver and Perez, and that's starting to drive me a bit barmy too. :)
2005-05-11 20:38:31
432.   Fearing Blue
Ok, so let me start by saying that I realize it's not going to happen, but what about moving Gagne back to the rotation? I know he was never very successful in the role previously, but he's certainly matured. He has three plus-plus pitches (fastball, change, curve), so he certainly still has the makeup to succeed. Brazoban would be free to continue his RotY run, and we might be able to solve our Ace starter problem.
2005-05-11 20:44:53
433.   Fearing Blue
#431: I agree and it is depressing. We may beat the Cardinals any given day, but they're clearly the better team.
2005-05-11 20:47:40
434.   Steve
432 -- that is FJT endorsed, but it will never happen. Gagne is a RELIEVER (TM), and must eat at separate tables from the STARTERS (TM), and sit in different parts of the bus.
2005-05-11 20:51:45
435.   LAT
Choi is batting .436 (17-for-39) with five homers and 14 RBIs in his last 11 games. Kent, Drew and MB 0-12 tonight. Can't we put it all together for a few days. I am getting nervous that Izzy and Choi will cool off when Kent, Drew and MB start warming up.
2005-05-11 20:58:32
436.   Fearing Blue
The free agent pitching class for next year looks pretty dismal. Burnett and Penny and then a whole lot of Weaver, Mr. Grumpy, and friends. Ted Lilly may end up being undervalued as a quality 4th / 5th starter replacement for Weaver.
2005-05-11 21:06:16
437.   Christina
Well, what about trying Brazoban as a starter once Gagne comes back? Is there any valid reason why that can't be done? (Yes, I know the Dodgers will never do it, but is there a VALID reason why?)

I ask because I really don't support the idea of changing Gagne to a starter unless what happened to the Giants in the last couple of weeks happens to the Dodgers. Gagne is unbelievable as a closer; maybe he'd be a better starter now than he was before, but I don't see him being an ace. It's just silly, to me, to take a guy away from a role he's been dominant far and above any other closer the game has seen in years. Yhency is doing wonderfully this season, but it's going to take a lot more saves before I'll trust that he's of Gagne's caliber.

I know the Dodgers have problems with their starting rotation. But I think there are better ways to fix that than by converting our dominant closer who's previously failed in that role. Heck, if losing Gagne as a closer were the only solution to the starting pitcher woes, then I still wouldn't convert him -- I'd trade him instead for a proven ace. THAT would be the way to use Gagne to effectively fix the SP woes.

But it doesn't really matter, as this isn't the only solution and the Dodgers would never do it anyway, so it's all moot. But I would like to know about Yhency. Anyone?

2005-05-11 21:32:20
438.   LAT
Baseball Tonight has been on for 10 mins so far, with 9 of them seemingly devoted to the Yanks. Should we tell them there are 29 other MLB teams.
2005-05-11 21:37:21
439.   Steve
No, if you do that they might start talking about the Dodgers.
2005-05-11 21:45:56
440.   Steve
Fearing, if you ever read this, I was thinking about it some more, because, well, that's what I do, and one of the things that is particularly galling about this sort of thing is that the Dodger pitching staff, or at least our idea of the ideal or optimistic Dodger pitching staff, ought to matchup with the Cards quite nicely. I'm not going to get into direct comparison, but they don't appear to have the aces either and we can't hit any of their guys but Kevin Jarvis.
2005-05-11 21:46:34
441.   the OZ
Things that are true about the Dodgers:

(1) Despite injuries, the pitching staff is above average.
(2) Despite injuries, the offense is significantly above average.
(3) Help is on the way - Gagne and A Perez and Werth clear out their replacement-level counterparts
(4) Even with Werth healthy, we can probably make an easy upgrade in left field before thge end of July.

The Dodgers are far from perfect, but there seems to be no real breakout team that is an obvious favorite to win it all [in either league]. We just played what is likely the only team in the NL better than us, and got beat while starting a drunken-looking Penny and a barfing Drew, and we still have a chance to even the series tomorrow.

Amazing how expectations have changed, isn't it? That's a good thing.

2005-05-11 21:54:05
442.   Neil
Well I spent the day at Disneyland and only caught the last couple of innings on the radio during the drive home. My only thoughts are that I really wish we could put Broxton, Tiffany, and Miller in the way-forward-machine and call them up soon. It's jarring to root for the Dodgers offense to pick up the pitching in nearly every game. But something I guess we'll all have to get used to.

-437 Christina: He only has two pitches. Or put another way, a harder throwing Edwin Jackson.

2005-05-11 22:00:14
443.   Fearing Blue
#442: Even worse, Yhency only really has one good pitch, which is a nasty fastball. He's working on his slider, which is probably average, and his changeup, which is well below average.

Gagne, on the other hand, has three excellent pitches. As a closer, he rarely even uses his curveball, but when he does, it's nasty.

2005-05-11 22:03:38
444.   LAT
Yes we do not have a No. 1 Ace, but Penny, Perez and Lowe are each solid No. 2 guys. Depending which Weaver shows up he can be unhittable or awful, that makes him a no 2.5 or 3. Erickson is a problem but what team doesn't have a problem at the five spot. That's why they are the fifth starter becasue they are a problem. The bullpen is fuego on the backend. Let's not panic 30 games into the season.

Geez, Icaros, that's optimism from me twice in one week. I'm getting soft.

2005-05-11 22:22:56
445.   Fearing Blue
#440: I try to read them all Steve. Since you're not going to get into direct comparison, I'll give it a whirl. :)

Starting pitching is where we don't seem to match up well. Here's my subjective side-by-side comparison:

#1: Mulder vs. Penny (slight edge Cards)
#2: Carpenter vs. Lowe (edge Cards)
#3: Morris vs. Perez (slight edge Cards)
#4: Marquis vs. Weaver (edge Cards)
#5: Suppan vs. Erickson (edge Cards)

If you use some combination of Alvarez and Dessens for our fifth starter, we'd probably end up even on that one.

Whereas the Dodgers have 1 #2, 1 #3, 1 #4, and 2 #5s (roughly), I would say the Cardinals have 2 #2s, 1 #3, 1 #4, and 1 #5 (roughly). So, if we could somehow swap Erickson for a strong #2 starter, I'd think we'd match up very well. Unfortunately, I don't know where we can find a #2 starter.

In the bullpen, we should have the edge, without a doubt. Gagne > Isringhausen and Brazoban > Tavarez.

Offensively, we match up pretty well. They have better players in their 3-6 slots, but our lineup is stronger 1-2 and 7-8.

Defensively, I'd give the Cardinals a slight edge, though I'm not buying Eckstein / Grudzielanek as being the dynamic defensive duo that the Cards announcers portray them as. If we can solidify 3B (Perez?) and work on Choi's fielding a little, I think this would even out.

So, I guess that while I do still feel like the Cardinals are a better team, it's not as significant a difference as I originally thought. In my wholly subjective analysis, we're basically one #2 starter away from matching up with them.

2005-05-11 22:26:43
446.   Fearing Blue
#444: I'm buying Penny as a #2, Lowe as a #3 and I could be convinced that Perez is also a #3, but in my mind Weaver is no better than a #4 or #5. He's basically an average pitcher who was propped up by a combination of DS and an excellent defense behind him last year.
2005-05-11 22:28:40
447.   Fearing Blue
Just a note: I do believe we're significantly better than the other teams in the NL West. I'm just trying to think about the playoffs, so in that regard I guess I'm optimistically pessimistic :).
2005-05-11 22:33:33
448.   Im So Blue
Re #432 & #434 -- I said it once, I'll say it again...From the Dodger Thoughts comments on 12/28/04:

"In case you've forgotten, Gagne says he likes being a closer because it fits his personality better. He wants to come in, and mow 'em down. As a starter, he had difficulty pacing himself so that he'd last for 6 innings."
Posted by: ImSoBlue at December 28, 2004 04:12 PM

"Or do most of us forget that Gagne was a terrible starter and was routinely booed by the Dodger Stadium crowd after he was knocked out of the box?"
Posted by: Bob Timmermann at December 28, 2004 04:49 PM

2005-05-11 22:37:44
449.   LAT
Fearing, notwithstanding my post in #144 I was agreeing with much of what you said but to call Weaver a #5 is rough. The guy was 13-13 last season and is 4-2 this year. Do other teams have a 5 who won 13 games. I agree he can be maddening but the frustration is the product of knowing he has talent. Most #5 just don't have the talent anymore (or never had it). come on give the guy a #4.
2005-05-11 22:40:55
450.   Bob Timmermann
Eric Gagne's last start for the Dodgers was 8/31/2001 at home against St. Louis.

He lasted 4 innings. He gave up 4 runs, 5 hits, 3 BBs, and 3 Ks and took the loss. The Cardinals won 5-1. Woody Williamks threw a CG and gave up four hits.

Tony La Russa batted Miguel Cairo THIRD. Eli Marrero caught and walked all four times he came up.

I was at that game. The crowd was not nice to Gagne!

Nor were we fond of the Dodgers leadoff hitter that day: Adrian Beltre.
Mike Trombley pitched in that game too!

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-05-11 22:42:30
451.   LAT
BTW, Fearing I am assumming when you said the Dodgers had 2 #5s you were referring to Weaver. If not, as Emily Latella said, never mind.
2005-05-11 23:07:11
452.   Steve
The Gagne thing is not going to happen. Can he start? Yes. Can he be successful? Yes. Will it happen? No. Fun to consider though.

I am simply at the end of my rope with the pitching staff. I think part of it is Scott Erickson's cowardly performance before the microphones after last night's game, and I think part of it is Jim Tracy's absolutely incompetent handling of the staff, starting with the day since he let Odalis Perez bat and stay in that game in Colorado. And I know what's coming tomorrow regarding "Choi's defense" from the media, though I think Penny will be man enough to take his own blame for this one.

I keep repeating to myself -- the goal is to stay competitive until the kids come up. And we're doing that. Everyone in the West has huge holes except for the Cards. Atlanta is playing Mondesi and Jordan. The Mets have Willie Randolph and his lineup with the two .280 OBP guys at the top (what an idiot). The Giants don't even have a Brazoban to look forward to in the 9th, much less a Gagne. But all of us have a little Plaschke in us. :)

2005-05-11 23:14:43
453.   Steve
Brad Penny:

"You can't blame him when I'm throwing the pitches."

That's better.

2005-05-11 23:18:24
454.   LAT
"Are they makable plays? Yes," Tracy said. "Are you going to cast a spear in the direction of somebody [Choi]trying as hard as he is? No."

Jim, you just did.

2005-05-12 03:08:23
455.   GoBears
re 454: Oh man! Tracy should be fired. Today. I've lost patience. It's not the dumb in-game moves, though they're annoying. It's the undermining of Choi. Who, oh, by the way, is the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on the squad. If only his manager weren't too dumb to realize it.

My memory of Gagne as a starter was that he was terrific the first time through the lineup, and then got shelled. Either because they figured him out, or he ran out of gas. I think he could pitch 2 innings more often, but I wouldn't want to repeat that experiment.

2005-05-12 05:32:38
456.   Suffering Bruin
Then again, we should all stand up and cheer for the comment:

"There were a couple balls that left the building, and it's hard to make those plays," Tracy said.
---- On Scott Erickson's complaints that the defense let him down.

2005-05-12 07:04:07
457.   LAT
Wonder if Tracy's willingness to take a (well deserved) shot at Erickson in the paper is a sign that Erckson won't be around much longer.
2005-05-12 07:36:51
458.   Suffering Bruin

Both the LAT and the LADN say Sunday is Erickson's "last chance." The Dodgers won't be needing a 5th starter until May 28. During the interim, options will be explored.

2005-05-12 07:45:09
459.   Fearing Blue
#449: LAT, you're right. Weaver is a passable 4th starter. Last year, he kept us in a lot of games. The schizophrenic performances this year led me to bump him a little further down, but it's a small sample size. Let's see how he does throughout the season.
2005-05-12 07:51:48
460.   Suffering Bruin
I got early work today so I wanted to post this somewhere.

As some of you may have noticed, both Steiner and Lyons were off their game last night. Steiner seemed a step behind the action and Lyons seemed like a guy who noticed his partner was struggling. The problem was, Steiner and Lyons were working off of the ESPN feed. I cannot stress enough how difficult this is for the local guys. When doing a game on television, the obligation is to the viewers. Remember the shot earlier in the game of the bored guy looking at the field? Steiner was silent for a few seconds before saying, "I have no idea who that is." That's teh problem in a nutshell; all night, Steiner really didn't know what was coming.

I think Steiner and Lyons are doing a terrific job. I knew Steiner would be good. I had no idea Lyons would be as good as he has been. I hope it continues.

2005-05-12 07:52:21
461.   Fearing Blue
Re Gagne as a starter: My recollection is similar to GoBears, that Gagne was fairly effective once through the lineup and then tended to crash. I read an article that said that Gagne had an anxiety-related eating disorder prior to the 2002 season and thus was never in very good shape. IIRC, he came into the 2002 season about 25 pounds heavier than he had been previously (and subsequently throwing much harder). That season was a breakout year for him, but I think people tend to attribute the breakout to the switch to closer, when it may have just as well been the right time for him to breakout. I couldn't find the Spring Training stats for 2002, but my recollection is that Gagne was pitching lights-out as a starter.
2005-05-12 07:58:28
462.   Fearing Blue
#453: Very refreshing. Penny gets a good teammate award.
2005-05-12 08:05:27
463.   LAT
Regardless of whether he could do it, do you think he would want to do it? He is the premier closer in the game. He has the mindset of a closer. i.e tough as nails for 1 or 2 innings. Not having to manage or conserve effort or concentration for 6 or 7. I'm guessing that even if the Dodgers were willing to do it (which I think we all agree they would not) Gange would not want to. If Barry were a great bunter or slap single hitter would you want him to take ABs like Ichero.

However, I do agree that both Ghame and Game could be extended for more than the customary one inning each. If you give them each 1.5 and get 1 inning out of Wilson or Gio, your 3 rd 4th or 5th starter need only go 5 innings. That is a sweet thing over the long haul of the season.

2005-05-12 08:19:13
464.   Fearing Blue
#463: No, I don't think he would want to, but it's fun to hypothesize. It's a little different from the Bonds / Ichiro example, because a good starter generally provides more value to a team than a good closer. But, as you mentioned, he's the premier closer in the game. Since we have no idea how good or great of a starter he could be, it likely would not be worth the risk.
2005-05-12 08:23:24
465.   Jim Hitchcock
Maybe before we put Erickson out to pasture, we need to send him to a horse whisperer...
2005-05-12 08:37:59
466.   franklin
and this just in...

Yo Morgan embraces new quantitative approach to baseball analysis. In his latest ESPN Chat, Morgan introduced a revolutionary approach to assessing the performance of major league hitters. Baseball Hall of Famer Morgan admitted, "Actually, I've been a SABR member since '86. I was just too shy to talk about my theories until now." His novel approach classifies hitters into one of three categories based on the type of pitches a hitter is able to hit and the situations when a hitter is able to hit those pitches. According to Morgan, there are three types of hitters: pure hitters, power hitters and up-and-coming hitters. When told that those categories don't seem mutually exclusive, he presented the following example to clarify his approach. Morgan identified Miguel Tejada as the best pure hitter in baseball, as long as Barry Bonds remains injured, because "Tejada hits for average and power, and while he might not be the best shortstop defensively, he's outstanding – making him the best all-around player overall." Although Morgan's initial categories did not mention defensive performance as part of the ranking criteria when queried about his discussion of defense, he responsed, "Shut up, you're confusing me. As I was saying, Ichiro isn't a pure hitter – rather, he's proficient at getting base hits." Morgan would go on to rank Vlad Guerrero as a power hitter, not a pure hitter because "he often goes out of the strike zone and swings at bad pitches (and sometimes he hits those pitches). But that isn't how a pure hitter approaches an at-bat." Even though Morgan did seem to chastise Guerrero's hitting approach, he did later admit that "if I were starting a team, Guerrero would be one of the first players I'd pick." Morgan closed by identifying Derrek Lee as the top up-and-coming hitter.

I would love to go on but am crying from the ridiculous logic (or lack thereof) that Morgan has put out for the world to read.

I can't believe I actually pay for this stuff as an "Insider" but the belly laugh was worth the expense.

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