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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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May 13 Open Chat: Rogue T-Shirt Night?
2005-05-13 13:38
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

After the game is over, will we hear stories of Dodger Thoughts readers recognizing each other by wearing the same shirts, or as they used to be known before the dawn of Yhency Brazoban, sirts?

Comments (570)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-13 16:44:37
1.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback (hope this didn't get posted twice)

May 13, 1975

Burt Hooton, who had had two bad starts since being acquired in a trade from the Cubs, threw a 2-hit, 5-0 shutout in St. Louis before a crowd of 18,519 at Busch Memorial Stadium. Backup shortstop Rick Auerbach, filling in for the injured Bill Russell, drove in 2 runs and center fielder Jim Wynn drove in 3. The win put the Dodgers, the defending National League champs, 4 ½ games in front of second place Cincinnati.

But come June the season would go south on the Dodgers while the Reds took off. The key contributors of 1974, Wynn and reliever Mike Marshall could not match their efforts from the previous year as they were plagued by injuries like the rest of the Dodgers in 1975. The Dodgers ended up 88-74 while Cincinnati rolled up a 108-54 record which would eventually earn them a World Series title.

Hooton was one of the two bright spots for the Dodgers in 1975. Acquired on May 2 from Chicago in exchange for Geoff Zahn and Eddie Solomon, Hooton finished with an 18-7 record and a 2.82 ERA. Hooton won 12 straight decisions to finish out the year. Steve Garvey hit a 2-run game-ending home run off of J.R. Richard on September 26 to give Hooton his last win. In his career, Richard was 15-4 against the Dodgers with a 1.86 ERA.

The other highlight for the Dodgers in 1975 was the performance of second baseman Davey Lopes. Lopes stole 77 bases to become the Dodger to lead the league in steals since Maury Wills in 1965.

The most important player on the 1975 Dodgers however was Andy Messersmith. Messersmith put up a 19-14 record and a 2.29 ERA. But more importantly, Messersmith played the 1975 season without signing a contract. Messersmith, along with Dave McNally, decided that they would test out the legality of baseball's reserve clause at the end of the season.

In 1976, Messersmith was on the Braves. And baseball was much different.

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-05-13 16:46:46
2.   Marty
Bob, it did get posted twice, just not in the same thread :)
2005-05-13 16:53:34
3.   LetsGoDodgers
This stretch of games should be interesting. Top-notch competition. Ailing heroes returning, just in time to replace the recently injured, although in different roles.

A fine test of mettle. Is a homestand "split" of 4 wins and 5 losses considered a victory, given who is (and isn't) on the roster?

2005-05-13 16:54:56
4.   Jon Weisman
Still haven't heard if Eric Gagne got activated today, or if he's dropping his appeal.
2005-05-13 16:59:29
5.   LetsGoDodgers
Tonight's game could be a tough one.

On the upside: Weaver at home, coming off a pair of good starts.

On the downside: the Braves starter (Ramirez) is a lefty, so no Starting Choi tonight.

2005-05-13 17:14:14
6.   Bob Timmermann
One of the pitchers for the Cardinals in that 1975 game was named Tommy Moore (he relieved Lynn McGlothen). He was born in Lynwood. Anybody remember him?
2005-05-13 17:16:30
7.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants have the bases loaded with 2 outs in the top of the 1st against Ezequiel (Dry Bones) Astacio.
2005-05-13 17:22:19
8.   Bob Timmermann
Infield hit and error by Jose Vizcaino (on the same play) gives the Giants a 2-0 lead as them Dry Bones are going to walk around.
2005-05-13 17:29:20
9.   Bob Timmermann
Although I'm the only one here it seems, I think the Giants have clinched their win already.

I can't see the Astros scoring 3 runs or not allowing anymore. And Garner is batting Orlando Palmeiro in the #3 slot.

2005-05-13 17:38:30
10.   GoBears
Bob, in the immortal words of Frasier Crane,
"I'm listening."
2005-05-13 17:40:43
11.   Bob Timmermann
'Stros have the bases loaded with no outs in the second.
2005-05-13 17:41:18
12.   Vishal
hah, looks like chin-feng chen is leading the poll on about which "prospect" is going to help the dodgers the most this year. he's got 43% of the vote to edwin jackson's 34%. they must be using the word prospect pretty loosely though, because in addition to CFC there's also mahomes.

i voted for aybar, but i hope it doesn't come to that.

2005-05-13 17:43:52
13.   Suffering Bruin

More from my source in Korea who refuses to be named, thus forever annoying yours truly...

I asked my source about Choi's Mountain Dew episode. For those who don't know, Choi did the Dew so much before one game he got dehydrated and had to be taken to the hospital for IV treatment. My source was less than shocked. Choi had a very rural upbringing and wasn't exposed to sodas, popular entertainment and other aspects of American life that we take oh-so-much pride in.

And the large appetite? According to the source, it ain't a myth. He really can--and does--eat ten eggs and three steaks in the same day.

FOOTNOTE: Some of you e-mailed to say you enjoyed the 'fact of Choi' on Wayne Belardi. Thanks for that; I was deeply concerned it would be too long. I'll try a few more but again, let me know if those long posts are annoying. If so, I'll create some kind of link.

2005-05-13 17:44:38
14.   Suffering Bruin
By the way, Bob T. hit for the cycle today.
2005-05-13 17:45:08
15.   Suffering Bruin
I wonder if I could do that...
2005-05-13 17:45:37
16.   Bob Timmermann
Obscure facts connected to connected to other obscure facts are the best obscure facts!

2-1 Giants with 2 outs. Everett singled in a run and then Chavez bounced into a 1-2-3 DP.

2005-05-13 17:46:26
17.   Suffering Bruin
SB rounding third... OUT AT THE PLATE!!

Great tag by Timmerman!

2005-05-13 17:46:52
18.   bigcpa
I'll be sporting TEAM DEPO on Sunday at photo day. I'm charging over to Choi as soon as they open the gates!

*LAST CALL by the way on the TEAM DEPO Second Edition T's. *
I have around 10 ordered but the cost goes down significantly if I get to 15. So now or never!

2005-05-13 17:46:52
19.   Linkmeister
SB, you should create a name for your source. I realize "Deep Throat" is forever taken, but surely there are other options.

A poll! We need a poll!

2005-05-13 17:47:53
20.   Bob Timmermann
No cycle for SB.

Jason Lane got tagged out at home trying to score on a pitch in the dirt.

It must stink to be an Astros fan now.

2005-05-13 17:57:07
21.   the OZ
Around the League...

Shawn Green gets a night off in COL. They'll miss his .694 OPS, no doubt, against The Lefty Jeff Francis.

Not to dwell in the past, but somehow Tom Glavine and his now-5.77 ERA have held Eckstein, Walker, Pujols, Edmonds, Sanders, and Grudzielanek to just one hit in 15 ABs. What gives? I wonder if our pitching was really bad, or they just hit a ton of line drives...

Jose Lima gave up 5 runs in 5.1 innings last night to run his season ERA to 6.85. He struck out 4, walked 4, and didn't allow a HR for only the third time this season. He is my best player in BP's 'Hacking Mass' league among other such luminaries as Scott Podsednik and Brad Ausmus.

2005-05-13 18:00:07
22.   Bob Timmermann
I hate Kirk Rueter, but not as much as I hate Russ Ortiz.

I don't know which one is luckier.

2005-05-13 18:02:37
23.   Bob Timmermann
Pop out

Last 8 Astros against Rueter.

1 run scored.

2005-05-13 18:02:45
24.   popup
Bob T, I am an Astros fan right now. Then again, I am a fan of any team who is playing against the Giants.

Thanks again for the daily Dodger retrospectives. I very much enjoy reading them.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-05-13 18:04:57
25.   Bob Timmermann
Now the Rockies have the bases loaded with 1 out against Brad Halsey.
2005-05-13 18:08:43
26.   Suffering Bruin
Bob, I haven't said how much I appreciated the Random Game callbacks. Great stuff.
2005-05-13 18:27:18
27.   dzzrtRatt
The Astros could have upgraded significantly if they'd picked up Alex Cora. Kent was killing them.
2005-05-13 18:34:18
28.   GoBears
27. HAH! Maybe Cora could have played 2nd base AND CF, to replace both Kent and Beltran.
2005-05-13 18:35:36
29.   Jim Hitchcock
Anybody watching Costas(aka The Great Dodger Enabler) NOW on HBO? Billy Crystal talks about his first baseball game. He and his father were guests of Louis Armstrong and got a trip down to the runway next to the locker room. Out walks Casey Stengel:

Crystal: Who's pitching today?

Stengel: You are, kid; suit up.

2005-05-13 18:53:35
30.   Bob Timmermann
Glad folks the history vignettes. I'm still waiting for a game that someone attended in person or remembered seeing on TV.

It will be a while before we get to a World Championship year.

2005-05-13 18:54:05
31.   Bob Timmermann
I meant "glad folks ENJOY the history vignettes"
2005-05-13 19:07:17
32.   tjshere
Bob - Count me in as one who really enjoys your callbacks. Not only are the game stories great, it's also a lot of fun hearing some of those old names I haven't heard in years. Rick Auerbach? Doug Rau? Wow! Takes me back to my misspent youth.

Anyway, thanks a lot for going to the effort to post our daily dose of nostalgia.

2005-05-13 19:08:24
33.   Jim Hitchcock
The Mets beat StL 2-0.

Sure. Knew that was gonna happen, didn't we?

2005-05-13 19:17:13
34.   Marty
Bob, I hope you get to the famous 3-homerun Kingman performance game. I was there for that one. Though, I wish I could have been in the clubhouse for the interview.
2005-05-13 19:22:05
35.   Bob Timmermann
That day already passed. That was on a Mother's Day.
2005-05-13 19:27:58
36.   Bob Timmermann
Darn, no Raul Mondesi tonight!

Instead Cox is starting Pancreas Man in right field, Ryan Langerhans.

"Old Friend" Brian Jordan in left field.

2005-05-13 19:28:04
37.   Jim Hitchcock
For those who didn't hear it, Gagne will be activated tomorrow, and is appealing his suspension.
2005-05-13 19:28:57
38.   Bob Timmermann
Rockies 9, DBacks 3 in the 5th.
Giants 4, Astros 1 in the 8th.
2005-05-13 19:33:14
39.   Bob Timmermann
4-2 Giants now after an RBI single from Orlando Palmeiro.

Alou is going for his third pitcher of the inning. And it's not like these guys are getting hit either.

2005-05-13 19:34:40
40.   Marty
Maybe I have my memories screwed up. Wouldn't be the first time. But I remember that game to be in June. Seaver pitched too and threw a 3 hitter. Kingman hit 3 homeruns plus a foul pop-up that glanced off of my brother's hands and hit me on the nose.
2005-05-13 19:36:16
41.   Bob Timmermann
Kingman had his 3 homer game against the Dodgers with the Cubs and it was an extra inning game.
2005-05-13 19:36:55
42.   Marty
aahh...then I do have it wrong. A different three home run game. Thanks
2005-05-13 19:37:02
43.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Brower is appearing in his 21st game of the year for the Giants.

At this pace, he will have between 96-97 games pitched.

2005-05-13 19:43:03
44.   Christina
Well, if there's anything good about being stuck at work, it's being able to "watch" the game on GameDay with the fast DSL connection in my office...unlike my dial-up at home. Damn SBC.

What's the over/under for innings Weaver will pitch tonight?

2005-05-13 19:44:41
45.   Bob Timmermann
Weaver will go 6 1/3.
2005-05-13 19:45:52
46.   Marty
nice to see an easy, low-pitch first.
2005-05-13 19:46:52
47.   the OZ
Weaver will go 6+. Jim Tracy will leave him in to face 4 batter in the 7th, all of whom will reach base.
2005-05-13 19:47:57
48.   Jim Hitchcock
Last Braves came I attended I was sitting in the field level just off third base. All night long a cute blonde in a Chipper Jones jersey pranced up and down to the friendly taunts of the fans on both sides of aisle.

In the ninth inning, she caught as foul ball by...Chipper Jones. No, she didn't throw it back.

2005-05-13 19:49:41
49.   Christina
I must say, the photo of Repko Gameday uses is hilarious. His eyebrows and goatee look so fake.

And two fly-outs on the second pitch in a row...come on, show a little patience, guys.

2005-05-13 19:51:46
50.   Bob Timmermann
Did Chipper ask her out afterward? Chipper is no JD Drew.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-13 19:51:51
51.   GoBears
Vinnie just made a point (in the top of the inning) about how many Cards reached base with 2 outs. Which makes me wonder - do you think he watched the games he doesn't attend? Or does he really take the time off? I kinda hope the latter. I imagine him at home, with a cameraman taking film of all of Vin's grandchildren out in the yard, and sending the feed to Vin's den, where he watches on TV.
2005-05-13 19:53:17
52.   GoBears
uh..."watchES the games he doesn't attend..."
2005-05-13 19:53:21
53.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt Vin goes out of his way to watch the games when he's off. I'm sure he gets a thorough briefing however. Or maybe he just reads Dodger Thoughts.
2005-05-13 19:54:50
54.   GoBears
Huh! Bobby Cox is from Selma, CA, the raisin capital of the world? They should sign him up as spokesman. He certainly looks the part.
2005-05-13 19:56:19
55.   Christina
Whoo, nice job with that K of Jones, Weaver!

20 pitches in 2 innings, so far very, very good for him...

2005-05-13 19:56:49
56.   brendan glynn
Ah, Andy Messersmith. A proud graduate of Western High School in Anaheim. Another famous Western Pioneer didn't have such a great day, today....Eldrick "Tiger" Woods.
2005-05-13 19:57:43
57.   the OZ
The Astros have both Roy Oswalt and Roger Clemens, and they're 12-23.

Does anyone think Oswalt will be available for trade? He's small and tends to get nagging injuries, but I've always liked his stuff.

2005-05-13 19:57:47
58.   Jim Hitchcock
Re # 50: Doubt he got the chance, Bob. After we threw her back, she was escorted away by security.
2005-05-13 19:58:03
59.   Bob Timmermann
Giants win 4-2. Five Giants pitchers combine to strike out no one.
2005-05-13 19:59:58
60.   Christina
Wow, Gameday is really on crack tonight - it showed 2 balls and 4 strikes to Kent!
2005-05-13 20:00:53
61.   GoBears
I have to run to LAX at 9pm. I'd resigned myself to listening to the end of the game on the radio. But at this rate, it might be over by 9!
2005-05-13 20:01:24
62.   GoBears
re 57: I think they'll try to move Clemens to the Yanks first, to dump that ridiculous contract.
2005-05-13 20:03:18
63.   GoBears
Wow, this Ramirez kid is fun to watch. He just made Kent and Saenz look foolish.
2005-05-13 20:03:33
64.   the OZ
Well, HoRam is throwing all 3 Mazzone pitches tonight: Fastball on the outside corner, fastball off the outside corner, changeup on the outside corner and low.

And he's gotten everyone out.

2005-05-13 20:03:41
65.   Christina
I thought I read somewhere that Clemens has a clause in his contract pushing a trade to a contending team if the Astros are out of it by midseason.
2005-05-13 20:03:43
66.   GoBears
The cycle!
2005-05-13 20:04:06
67.   GoBears
2005-05-13 20:04:09
68.   Steve
Remember thar stuff about Saenz playing first against lefthanders? Forget I mentioned it.
2005-05-13 20:05:10
69.   GoBears
Re 65: Apparently (this is according to ESPN, so judge for yourself) Clemens has told ownership that he'd only go to the Yanks.
2005-05-13 20:06:00
70.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if Clemens has a clause in his contract as much as he'll just whine a lot about being on a bad team. See "Blue Jays, Toronto".
2005-05-13 20:06:42
71.   GoBears
Oh, sweet pitch to strike out Jordan. Looked like a strike, then tailed away. A slider, I guess.
2005-05-13 20:09:34
72.   the OZ
You may have missed the cycle, GB, but you're 7 for the last 12. That's pretty good.
2005-05-13 20:11:05
73.   Bob Timmermann
According to BBref, Horacio Ramirez is the only major leaguer to be born in Carson.

But I don't think there's a hospital in Carson. Harbor-UCLA is considered Torrance (by the Post Office).

So where was Horacio born? In a refinery?

2005-05-13 20:12:25
74.   Bob Timmermann
17-3 Rockies over the DBacks in Denver now.
2005-05-13 20:12:32
75.   Nick Iyengar
There goes Ramirez's no-no.
2005-05-13 20:12:47
76.   the OZ
COL 18. ARI 3.

That'll kill the ol' Pythag.

2005-05-13 20:13:30
77.   GoBears
re 72: Just as long as Jon doesn't sit me down against left-handers.
2005-05-13 20:13:41
78.   Bob Timmermann
But will the Rockies bullpen hold the lead?
2005-05-13 20:14:48
79.   Christina
This is reminding me of the As fans' joke about attacking with a Barrage of Singles!!

Not that the As are even hitting many of those this season...

2005-05-13 20:16:18
80.   the OZ
Are there any ballet dancers here that know the technical term for the manuever Weaver performed while running to first base after his bunt?
2005-05-13 20:16:29
81.   Jim Hitchcock
Very wide strike zone tonight.
2005-05-13 20:16:44
82.   Nick Iyengar
Hail Cesar!
2005-05-13 20:16:53
83.   Bob Timmermann
A run with only one ball leaving the infield.
2005-05-13 20:17:02
84.   GoBears
re 79: You'd think that with Beaneball, it would be "a barrage of walks."
2005-05-13 20:17:19
85.   Christina
Hey Steve, how do you feel about that bunt? ;-)

Speaking of the As, Rich Harden just went out with an injury.

2005-05-13 20:17:30
86.   MSarg29
Braves announcers giving a lot of love to Izturis as well as Weaver's bunting skills.
2005-05-13 20:18:20
87.   GoBears
I hate Chipper Jones.
2005-05-13 20:19:39
88.   Jim Hitchcock
That would be the balance beam non-rotational two footed pirouette. But you knew that.
2005-05-13 20:20:41
89.   Steve
Pitchers are a general exception to the bunting rule if the double play is in order. Not with a runner on second with one out. Tracy.

I wondered why Harden left that game, he'd gotten knocked around but it seemed early to pull a guy like Harden.

2005-05-13 20:21:32
90.   Nick Iyengar
I'm in CT, so I rarely see the Dodgers on TV (luckily getting them on TBS tonight) ... what's up with Repko? He hit the ball hard there - has it been a real slump, i.e. lots of strikeouts, or just a question of not being able hit it where they ain't? Either way, .190 isn't pretty. Werth can't get back soon enough.
2005-05-13 20:22:15
91.   Vishal
ack! what kind of injury??

(the A's are my other favorite team)

2005-05-13 20:23:17
92.   Christina
Yes, and Macha is not exactly quick with the trigger finger.

Harden has had high pitch counts all season, that may have caused strain...

2005-05-13 20:23:59
93.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Repko - 16 Ks, 4 BBs
2005-05-13 20:24:20
94.   Christina
Oh hey Vishal - same here, I root for the Dodgers first, because I grew up in SoCal, and the As second, because SF is my adopted home, and I certainly can't root for the Giants.

It's not known yet what kind of injury it is. Naturally, the Athletics Nation peeps are freaking out...

2005-05-13 20:25:57
95.   Christina
Uh oh - just announced...left oblique strain, same thing that took Huddy down a couple of years ago. Dammit.
2005-05-13 20:27:02
96.   the OZ
Adam LaRoche looks exactly like Sesame Street's Bert.
2005-05-13 20:27:16
97.   Bob Timmermann
Bob Melvin has inserted his fourth pitcher in the game. His Arizona team is losing 18-3. Felipe Alou used FIVE pitchers to pick up a 4-2 win for the Giants. Jason Christensen threw one pitch.
2005-05-13 20:29:04
98.   Xeifrank
Just turned the game on an inning ago, finally got the baby down for the night. Sure was a "productive" out from Izturis wasn't it!? :)



2005-05-13 20:30:08
99.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have two Olneys tonight!
2005-05-13 20:30:21
100.   the OZ
Miguel Cabrera homers off Adam Eaton to tie the game 1-1 in San Diego.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-13 20:30:35
101.   Xeifrank

Hey! Sesame Street's Bert is my little ones favorite SS character. She loves it when Ernie blows his book away so they can go play ball!



2005-05-13 20:31:13
102.   Nick Iyengar
Any news about how much longer D.J. Houlton is going to be with the big club? Somebody at Las Vegas (Mahomes?) must be more worth having in the mop-up role.
2005-05-13 20:31:34
103.   Xeifrank
Currently looking for "Ghame Over" t-shirts in the crowd. Drew draws another walk.



2005-05-13 20:31:40
104.   Vishal
hah, similar story for me too christina. grew up in socal, went to school in the bay area. i hate the giants. i like to think about baseball.

yeah, i peeked over at AN but nobody said exactly what it was. oh now i see: left oblique strain, a la tim hudson.

i don't think his pitch pitch counts have been insanely high... i doubt that's what caused it.

2005-05-13 20:31:49
105.   Christina
That Gameday picture of Ramirez seems to look more and more tired/fried as the game starts going in the crapper for him. Heh.
2005-05-13 20:32:49
106.   Xeifrank

I'm currently able to pitch home games. I'm sure DT could pitch in with bullpen by committee and do better than DJ.



2005-05-13 20:33:14
107.   Christina
Harden's pitch count for the last four games was 119-102-121-107. So, who knows.
2005-05-13 20:33:17
108.   Xeifrank
Walk, DP, HR

Those DPs really kill you don't they!

Way to go Milton.



2005-05-13 20:33:19
109.   MSarg29
nice shot milton
2005-05-13 20:34:08
110.   GoBears
Just to remind you, Nick (102), the decision on Houlton is to hold 'em or fold 'em. If they send him down, they probably lose him, back to Houston. Rule 5 and all that. Not that they shouldn't just cut bait (to mix metaphors) at this point...
2005-05-13 20:34:21
111.   Xeifrank
Dodger win expectancy up to 79.7 after the Bradley dinger.



2005-05-13 20:34:27
112.   Bob Timmermann
The last four batters against Ramirez:
Line out
2005-05-13 20:34:47
113.   Bob Timmermann
Add Saenz lineout to the list.
2005-05-13 20:35:16
114.   Christina
Right now, I certainly wouldn't view the Astros grabbing Houlton as a big loss for us.
2005-05-13 20:36:52
115.   GoBears
He could leave LA for Houston, and raise the average pitching quality in both places!
2005-05-13 20:37:19
116.   Xeifrank
Prolly the D-Backs will be forgiven if the Suns hold on to this 6 point lead headed into the 4th quarter.

What's the deal with poker on every single night? And it's the same guys playing every time. I would much rather prefer watching a good game of "Go Fish" or "War"



2005-05-13 20:39:19
117.   GoBears
HA! I knew Vin would get to the colorful houses in Curacao before the game was over. It's his favorite Andruw Jones fact.
2005-05-13 20:39:37
118.   Steve
Houlton may get around to being decent filler someday, but I can't imagine wasting a roster spot all year for him to try and figure it out. Let him go back to Houston, they get sick of him, release him, he comes here as a non-roster invitee, and makes the roster again.
2005-05-13 20:39:59
119.   Nick Iyengar
I'm surprised we'd hang on to Houlton (2.76 ratio in 12.1 innings, so he's got a decent sample size) just cause we're scared of losing him back to the Astros. At this point, he wouldn't be a big loss. Maybe the front office knows something I don't, but I'd say "fold 'em."
2005-05-13 20:40:45
120.   GoBears
Weaver is enjoying this huge strike zone tonight.
2005-05-13 20:41:43
121.   Steve
Umpire has a huge strike zone (Dodger fan talk for that strike two was high).
2005-05-13 20:42:08
122.   Im So Blue
Vinny just said something about a no-no.
2005-05-13 20:43:06
123.   Xeifrank
No jinxes tonight please.



2005-05-13 20:43:18
124.   the OZ
Xei -

Poker is cheap for networks to produce - set down three cameras, pay an editor, a couple "announcers" making union scale. It doesn't need good ratings to turn a profit, which is what will eventually kill "The West Wing" - high production costs with an expensive ensemble cast.

And they can replay it over and over because, like the inside of a casino, there are no 'clocks' to tell you when or where it was produced.

I hate it, too.

2005-05-13 20:43:31
125.   GoBears
The Dodgers are certainly teeing off, but right at guys.
2005-05-13 20:43:31
126.   Vishal
2005-05-13 20:43:47
127.   dzzrtRatt
Has anyone mentioned that Scott Rolen had surgery today for a torn labrum?

I recall a long-ago discussion, perhaps on this site, that a tear in the labrum is death to a power hitter, i.e. Shawn Green.

2005-05-13 20:44:02
128.   Xeifrank
Pinch hit for Ramirez in the 6th inning?



2005-05-13 20:44:54
129.   Nick Iyengar
Hey, I don't want to get on this guy's bandwagon too early, but Mike Edwards is holding his own.
2005-05-13 20:45:28
130.   Xeifrank
Not a productive out for Weaver. :)

Joe Morgan must be shaking with rage.



2005-05-13 20:45:30
131.   GoBears
Edwards is enjoying his 15 minutes.

Hee hee ..."Chopper to Chipper..."

2005-05-13 20:46:05
132.   Steve
I call it a "Grabowski" for reasons that should be self-evident.
2005-05-13 20:46:40
133.   Im So Blue
Weaver did that gymnastics move again when he ran to first.
2005-05-13 20:46:40
134.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey Oz, as a recent West Wing convert (on Bravo), what night and time does the network show it?
2005-05-13 20:46:44
135.   Bob Timmermann
Rolen had arthroscopic surgery on his shoulder. I think Green had major surgery. Scalpels and such.
2005-05-13 20:47:08
136.   the OZ
Weaver lost the "Nakamura" when he walked Chipper.
2005-05-13 20:48:00
137.   Steve
I think that's the "Big Grabowski."
2005-05-13 20:48:01
138.   GoBears
127: I think that was from Will Carroll. It was discussed during the Shawn Green trade follies, IIRC. Too bad for Rolen. But yet another contribution from Hee-Seop, however unintentional. If we add his OPS to the difference between Rolen's and his replacement's, we've got an MVP candidate!
2005-05-13 20:48:36
139.   Bob Timmermann
Poker is on every channel I believe. At some time.

Bravo shows it. ESPN shows it. Fox shows it. The Travel Channel shows it.

It's probably on Food TV. Or the History Channel. Except on the History Channel, all the players are Nazi soldiers.

2005-05-13 20:49:10
140.   the OZ
Welcome to the [large] club, Jim.

Bravo has cut back their West Wing broadcasts. I think they're doing marathons on Monday or Tuesday; try Mon-THurs at 10pm.

Although I recommend seasons 1 and 2 on DVD - probably the best scripted drama I've ever seen.

2005-05-13 20:49:29
141.   GoBears
Sounds like Vinnie's having a little trouble with dentures. He kind of Shlurred hizh way through that Regan shtorry.
2005-05-13 20:50:17
142.   Xeifrank
Pitcher gets first hit, haha!



2005-05-13 20:50:21
143.   Im So Blue
127 & 138: How much credit does Erickson get, since it was his lousy throw to the wrong side of the bag?
2005-05-13 20:50:53
144.   Christina
Heh, Ramirez didn't want Weaver showing him up.
2005-05-13 20:51:02
145.   Nick Iyengar
Should have thrown a curveball to Suppan, should have thrown a fastball to Ramirez. Go figure.
2005-05-13 20:51:34
146.   Xeifrank
I hope Houlton gets up in the pen



2005-05-13 20:51:37
147.   the OZ
There goes the "Grabowski."

Hopefully, before too long, we can say 'there goes the Grabowski' without the quotation marks as he goes on waivers.

2005-05-13 20:51:38
148.   GoBears
WW went downhill when they fired Sorkin. But this year was better than the year before. Next year will probably be the last.

Good for Ramirez, even if it did cost our boy the no-no.

2005-05-13 20:51:53
149.   Steve
Hey look at that a two strike drive by the pitcher. Wouldn't have ever imagined it.
2005-05-13 20:54:14
150.   Jim Hitchcock
Thanks, Oz. Have Season 1 ordered through Blockbuster.

Yeah, I don't watch two many network shows, but
WW won me over in a hurry. Great show!

Damn, wish it was time for `Dead Like Me' again.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-13 20:54:18
151.   Xeifrank
Dodger win expectancy now up to 87.5% headed to the bottom of the 6th.



2005-05-13 20:55:09
152.   Xeifrank

"The Grabowski" hahahahaha!

love it.



2005-05-13 20:55:27
153.   Nick Iyengar
How exactly does one calculate win expectancy?
2005-05-13 20:55:34
154.   GoBears
Drew gets great jumps out there. His usual shtick seems to be to rush the ball, then slow up to make the catch. As compare to Bradley, who seems to know exactly where he has to be and when he has to be there, and just kinda glides. Bradley reminds me of Devon White in that regard (better hitter, thank goodness).
2005-05-13 20:55:37
155.   the OZ
148 - Agreed on all counts.

Sorkin also wrote "The American President" before WW. "TAM" is basically a long WW eposide starring Martin Sheen as Leo and Michael J Fox as Sam.

2005-05-13 20:56:19
156.   Christina
It's that sort of thing that I was thinking of when I made that comment a few days ago that I'm overly harsh on pitchers not hitting, because I feel like they should be able to. Who should be able to read a pitcher's mind better than another pitcher? But it doesn't work out that way most of the time, which will always confuse me on some level.
2005-05-13 20:57:37
157.   Bob Timmermann
Steve is still angry at Repko.
2005-05-13 20:58:04
158.   Jim Hitchcock
And it's filmed on the same set as `The American President'. Also `Dave', if I remember right.
2005-05-13 20:58:08
159.   Xeifrank
There is a win expectancy calculator based on what percent of games a team wins given the score differential, outs, inning, runners on base.



2005-05-13 20:58:22
160.   the OZ
Repko channels Maury Wills with a bunt hit.

He may be Dave Roberts part II if he can adjust effectively to ML pitching and he hangs out with Wills, like, 10 hours a day.

2005-05-13 20:58:55
161.   Christina
Any stats on how well we can expect the win expectancy calculator to work? ;-)
2005-05-13 20:59:19
162.   MSarg29
how long does the Drew honeymoon last?
2005-05-13 20:59:20
163.   Xeifrank
Having trouble concentrating on the Dodger game with this thrilling finish to the Suns/Mavericks game. Would love to see Mark Cuban lose.



2005-05-13 21:00:04
164.   the OZ
2005-05-13 21:00:09
165.   Xeifrank

There is another calculator that calculates how well the win expectancy works, just haven't found it yet. :)



2005-05-13 21:00:17
166.   Xeifrank

There is another calculator that calculates how well the win expectancy works, just haven't found it yet. :)



2005-05-13 21:00:18
167.   GoBears
I think Bill James offered the best explanation, Christina (156). Basically, that you have to be a freak (in the tail of the talent distribution) to be a major-league hitter. You have to be a freak on a different dimension to be a MLB pitcher. The chances that you're exceptional in both ways is minuscule. Babe Ruth, Rick Rhoden, and Mike Hampton. That's about it. Sure, pitchers (and catchers) might have more insight, but they don't have the talent to hit those pitches.
2005-05-13 21:00:23
168.   Steve
Great bunt. Fantastic. And where's Repko now? Very productive.
2005-05-13 21:00:33
169.   Langhorne
Bad decision, Jeff.
2005-05-13 21:00:40
170.   Bob Timmermann
1-2-3 inning the hard way for Ramirez there.
2005-05-13 21:00:50
171.   Xeifrank
Thank god, poker is over!



2005-05-13 21:01:17
172.   Steve
162 -- not much longer. If we wanted Shawn Green, we could have just kept him.
2005-05-13 21:01:53
173.   Steve
Do me a favor and don't even tell me what the Hell Jeff Kent was doing, because I don't want to know.
2005-05-13 21:02:23
174.   Im So Blue
There seems to be some sort of West Wing Marathon on Bravo starting Monday, 5/16 at 11am, with 79 episodes (some duplicates) over the next 10 days.

[I used Yahoo TV Advanced Search]

2005-05-13 21:04:18
175.   Bob Timmermann
I said 6 1/3 IP for Weaver.

I stand by that prediction.

2005-05-13 21:04:46
176.   Xeifrank
I see the White Sox won again, do they still have that streak where they've had the lead in every single game this season?



2005-05-13 21:05:09
177.   jeongers
Do pitchers even take batting practice? I would hope so.

Aren't pitchers usually the best all-around players growing up? That means they're also good hitters, but that skill diminishes because they don't practice it anymore. It seems logical to have pitchers work on hitting.

2005-05-13 21:05:15
178.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The HP ump, Eddings, has a hell of an arm.
2005-05-13 21:06:21
179.   MSarg29
beltre just hit a 3 run homer in Seattle.
2005-05-13 21:06:21
180.   the OZ
[Feels rumblings of an impending FJT explosion]
2005-05-13 21:06:56
181.   Jim Hitchcock
Get the ball down, Weav...
2005-05-13 21:07:03
182.   Xeifrank
78% win expectancy now.



2005-05-13 21:07:10
183.   Bob Timmermann
Pitchers take batting practice well before the spectators come in.

Padres lead 3-1 after 7. "Old Friend" Juan Encarnacion threw out Mark Sweeney at the plate to end the inning.

2005-05-13 21:07:28
184.   Im So Blue
175: Bob, sure hope you're wrong...Good time for a double play.
2005-05-13 21:07:41
185.   Xeifrank
Is Houton warming up in the pen yet?

Suspense is killing me.



2005-05-13 21:08:09
186.   Steve
Horacio Ramirez double = Grabowski Principle? Somebody better be up in the bullpen at least.
2005-05-13 21:08:28
187.   Christina
167 - I've heard that explanation before, and intellectually, I can see it. It's just that I look around and it seems that a higher percentage of outstanding position players are also at least decent hitters than there are pitchers who are also decent hitters. I don't even expect to see power, more like grounders that slip through the holes, and I feel like the pitchers should be a little better at that than they generally are. So the gap still befuddles me on a certain level and likely always will. Probably it just bugs me that the pitcher is usually an automatic out, with all the corresponding strategic ramifications.
2005-05-13 21:08:28
188.   Xeifrank
Hope "good friend" Brian Jordan doesn't decide to launch a three run homer on us.



2005-05-13 21:08:40
189.   Steve
Thank you Andruw Jones. I knew you were useful for something.
2005-05-13 21:09:03
190.   mikethinksblue
re #178

I noticed the ump's arm too. Maybe he can throw out runners stealing for Phillips.

2005-05-13 21:09:08
191.   Jim Hitchcock
In general, bunting only, Jeongers.

Thanks, Im So Blue...they been advertising next week all this week. Hope they're in order.

2005-05-13 21:09:18
192.   Im So Blue
Whew! Dodged that bullet.
2005-05-13 21:09:50
193.   Bob Timmermann
My use of "Old friend" is an homage to Ross Porter.
2005-05-13 21:09:53
194.   Xeifrank
One day some national league team will realize that you should teach your pitchers how to hit, would be like having a DH or another Nakamura in the lineup.



2005-05-13 21:10:17
195.   Christina
Whew - Weaver got out of that one. There's just no chance at all, is there, that Tracy WON'T trot Weaver out for the next inning? Even if there's an opportunity to PH for Weaver instead? Sigh.
2005-05-13 21:10:17
196.   Steve
Jones and Jordan combine to see a total of three pitches.
2005-05-13 21:10:20
197.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
When Kent was cut down at second stretching his single, did Vin say he was out "from me to you?" He'll throw that one in at least once a season.
2005-05-13 21:10:26
198.   GoBears
177: If the pitcher is the best hitter on the team as a kid, it's probably the case that no one else on the team will make the Show. A teeny tiny share of guys have the hitting OR pitching skills to make it. The intersection of those tiny groups is MLB pitchers who can hit. Flukes. So there might be something to the diminishing skills argument, but I think it's much more likely that, even if they were their teams' top hitters as kids, they never had MLB-level hitting skills.
2005-05-13 21:10:48
199.   Jim Hitchcock
See, that's what I get for never making BP.
2005-05-13 21:11:08
200.   the OZ
They are usually in order. They tend to come in 3-episode story chunks.

My two favorites are probably the Season 1-2 cliffhanger, and the 3rd-season trek that Josh, Toby, and Donna take through middle America after getting separated from the motorcade.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-13 21:11:20
201.   Xeifrank
Whew! Mark Cuban is going to lose, hope they show him after the game.



2005-05-13 21:11:48
202.   Xeifrank
Alert! Alert!

Nearing post 227.



2005-05-13 21:12:13
203.   Eric L
187 - IIRC the minor leagues use a DH. If a pitcher spends a year at each level, that's a whole lot of time that they aren't seeing live pitching.
2005-05-13 21:13:55
204.   Bob Timmermann
They don't use DHs in minor league games between two NL affiliates. At least at the AAA level. I think all the lower levels use the DH. Why waste ABs on pitchers when you could be seeing if another guy can hit?
2005-05-13 21:14:06
205.   Christina
The Barrage of Singles commences!
2005-05-13 21:14:29
206.   Eric L
Also, I think the NCAA uses a DH as well. Maybe a guy like Mark Prior or John Olerud (he was a pitcher in college) hit for themselves, but I doubt that many other guys do.
2005-05-13 21:14:30
207.   Bob Timmermann
Marlins cut the lead to 3-2 on an RBI single from Carlos Delgado.
2005-05-13 21:14:37
208.   GoBears
I'd put the "even pitchers who are good athletes are easy outs" down to the really high quality of MLB-level pitching and hitting. Look at poor Nakamura. He was a terrific hitter in Japan, but was an easy out in MLB. The talent level it takes to be a MLB-level hitter, against MLB-quality pitchers is really really high.

Another way to think about this is the Babe Ruth story. If a guy is good enough to be even a league-average hitter, he should play every day, not every 5 days. So it's probably the case that the good-hitting pitchers are converted to position players early on, because they're more valuable that way.

2005-05-13 21:14:51
209.   Steve
Tough call here. 94 pitches. Signs of fading in the seventh, but bad ABs by A. Jones and Jordan saved us. Carrara fresh or Weaver? Bottom of the order coming up? Seems you could be wrong either way.

I'd like to bring Weaver's spot up to pinch hit for him, and therefore make this discussion moot. Scoring three more runs would help too.

2005-05-13 21:15:11
210.   Jim Hitchcock
Yeah, the trip in the jeep was hilarious. Guessing the cliffhanger was the kidnapping?
2005-05-13 21:15:33
211.   Christina
Good to know Tracy isn't the only one who leaves the starter in too long...
2005-05-13 21:15:58
212.   Bob Timmermann
Olerud pitched and played first in college. A lot of guys double up in college. Mark Kotsay did.

The DH in college ball can be moved around in the lineup unlike pro ball. You can double switch the DH. Makes it really hard to keep score.

2005-05-13 21:17:21
213.   Bob Timmermann
Ostuka got out of the jam. Cabrera hit into a DP and Encarnacion flied out.
2005-05-13 21:17:29
214.   Xeifrank
I'd take Weaver out.



2005-05-13 21:18:01
215.   Eric L
I know the rules for the DH in college (and high school for that matter) are a heck of a lot different than the AL.

I'm making a big assumption in thinking that guys like Kotsay and Olerud are an exception to the specialization "rule".

2005-05-13 21:18:14
216.   Nick Iyengar
Random question: what happened to Mike Venafro? I think I saw that he pitched poorly during the spring, but is he still in the organization? I forget how he pitched last year but I seem to remember he was pretty decent. Anyway, was just thinking he might be useful to have around at some point, like if Wunsch gets hurt or starts pitching poorly.
2005-05-13 21:18:16
217.   MSarg29
Dreifort DH'd in college.
2005-05-13 21:18:42
218.   Christina
So would I. Yes, bottom of the order is coming up, but look at who got the first hit against Weaver. Or the Braves will PH for Ramirez. Either way, time for Weaver to wave goodbye.
2005-05-13 21:19:40
219.   Steve
Nice first pitch out Edwards.

This is a tough one. If he follows form, Tracy will leave him in, and take him out if and when the first runner of the inning gets on. No reason to double switch, because he can use Choi to pinch hit for the pitcher in the eighth then double switch for Repko in the ninth.

2005-05-13 21:20:44
220.   Xeifrank
Weaver stays in, but for how long and what will the consequences be?

One out.



2005-05-13 21:20:44
221.   Bob Timmermann
Venafro is at Las Vegas, but not on the 40-man roster. He has an ERA over 6.
2005-05-13 21:20:59
222.   jeongers
Yeah, but if pitchers aren't even getting batting practice and a rudimentary input from hitting coaches, that seems quite a lost opportunity. An NL team with most of its starting pitchers hitting at or slightly above the Mendoza line would be an advantage.

After further thought, previous posts make sense, though. I guess as you proceed through high school, college, and the minors, it becomes more difficult to be good at both hitting and pitching as you progress to higher levels of competition. So you have to specialize.

And we chug on to the 8th.

2005-05-13 21:22:05
223.   MSarg29
Cheap hit. damn
2005-05-13 21:22:09
224.   Xeifrank
I have a feeling that one of the reasons the Braves always did well in the 90s is that all of their starting pitchers could hit.



2005-05-13 21:22:20
225.   the OZ
Venafro is in Vegas, not getting to pitch a lot of innings - only 11 IP so far this season.

Gagne has pitched 4 innings already for Vegas, which tells you that Venafro is pretty much an emergency body right now.

2005-05-13 21:22:39
226.   Xeifrank
Tying run at the plate, wonder what Jim Tracy is saying to himself.

He's not going to bunt Vinny!



2005-05-13 21:22:49
227.   Eric L
And they pitched pretty well...
2005-05-13 21:23:31
228.   Bob Timmermann
If baseball teams could have figured out how to make its pitchers good hitters, then they would have done so back in the 19th century. Pitchers didn't hit particularly well back then either.

When Babe Ruth was on the Red Sox and was the pitcher, he still batted ninth.

2005-05-13 21:23:32
229.   LAT
I just got home and turned on the game. Did we activate Gagne and Werth tonight?
2005-05-13 21:23:33
230.   Xeifrank
227 didn't get erased?



2005-05-13 21:23:46
231.   the OZ
Please tell me that someone is warming up in the bullpen.

Only an idiot would have a SP in the 8th with a runner on and no one warming up, if only to be cautious.

2005-05-13 21:24:12
232.   Xeifrank
Gagne activate serving 2 game suspension.



2005-05-13 21:24:35
233.   the OZ
That's why.
2005-05-13 21:24:43
234.   Xeifrank
OK, PLEASE take Weaver out now!!!



2005-05-13 21:24:59
235.   Steve
One batter too long...
2005-05-13 21:25:00
236.   Vishal
bring in yhency!!!
2005-05-13 21:25:14
237.   MSarg29
nice job by Repko cutting that off.
2005-05-13 21:25:31
238.   the OZ
OK, Cararra's ready, at least. I'm slightly less nervous.
2005-05-13 21:25:37
239.   Xeifrank
77.6 win exp.



2005-05-13 21:25:53
240.   Steve
Oh God, I'm not watching because my kids are having a sleepover and have the TV. No one's warming up?
2005-05-13 21:26:13
241.   Xeifrank
Jim Tracy must be busy watching poker in the clubhouse.



2005-05-13 21:26:17
242.   Jim Hitchcock
Are you sure, XF? Before the game they said he would be activated tomorrow and would be appealing the suspension.
2005-05-13 21:26:36
243.   LAT
Thanks Xeifrank. Any news on Werth?
2005-05-13 21:26:40
244.   Xeifrank
Carrara is ready



2005-05-13 21:26:43
245.   Bob Timmermann
Carrara is warming up.
2005-05-13 21:26:55
246.   MSarg29
tough at bat by giles
2005-05-13 21:27:04
247.   Steve
Don't you want Chipper hitting righty? I can't remember right now.
2005-05-13 21:27:19
248.   Xeifrank
o, just saw him in uniform in the dugout and ass-u-me-d



2005-05-13 21:27:19
249.   Im So Blue
Ooh...Ghame over is heating up!
2005-05-13 21:27:22
250.   Langhorne
I had no problem with Weaver starting the eighth but with runners on second and third and Weaver over 100 pitches why not go to the pen? Isn't that what it's there for?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-05-13 21:28:28
251.   MSarg29
great pitch by Weaver.
2005-05-13 21:28:35
252.   mikethinksblue
Good job Weaver, now take a seat
2005-05-13 21:28:44
253.   Xeifrank
Nice K on Giles... 81.3% win exp.



2005-05-13 21:28:46
254.   Marty
Please take out Weaver now.
2005-05-13 21:28:52
255.   Bob Timmermann
Chipper hits about the same from both sides this year. 978 OPS right handed, 1098 OPS left handed.
2005-05-13 21:29:03
256.   the OZ
Weaver's thrown 110 pitches. Time for a reliever. PLEASE.
2005-05-13 21:29:26
257.   Xeifrank
Gonna walk Chipper?



2005-05-13 21:29:47
258.   MSarg29
nice block phillips
2005-05-13 21:29:47
259.   Marty
Tracy is an idiot. He may get away with it but Ghame Over should be in right now. He can get 4 outs
2005-05-13 21:30:08
260.   Xeifrank
Sorry, can't bring in a reliever bullpen phone is busy.



2005-05-13 21:30:13
261.   Bob Timmermann
Going to the 9th in San Diego. Still 3-2 Padres.

Lo Duca, Lowell, and Gonzalez due up .

2005-05-13 21:30:28
262.   MSarg29
looks like he's pitching around Chipper.
2005-05-13 21:30:32
263.   LAT
Nice save. Chipper just happened to walk right in front of the plate.
2005-05-13 21:30:46
264.   the OZ
A nice walk before Wunsch...
2005-05-13 21:30:51
265.   Im So Blue
Weaver should go ahead and walk Chipper, and then it should be Wunsch time.
2005-05-13 21:30:53
266.   Xeifrank
Walk to Chipper, the lefty Wunch comes in?



2005-05-13 21:31:06
267.   Nick Iyengar
2005-05-13 21:31:07
268.   Nick Iyengar
2005-05-13 21:31:15
269.   Steve
2005-05-13 21:31:19
270.   mikethinksblue
That's the wrong Jim going to the mound
2005-05-13 21:31:26
271.   Xeifrank
Just go straight to "Ghame Over"



2005-05-13 21:31:26
272.   LAT
Why not bring in Yhancy? He can go 1 and 1/3
2005-05-13 21:31:27
273.   Christina
No, we have to leave Weaver in until he either gives up the lead or otherwise makes the situation as hard as possible on an incoming he did just now. Sheesh.
2005-05-13 21:31:34
274.   Bob Timmermann
Since Colborn is out. Weaver is staying in and LaRoche is batting with the sacks full.
2005-05-13 21:31:39
275.   jeongers
Weaver's still IN?!?! My internet connection's really pissing me off.
2005-05-13 21:31:53
276.   Nick Iyengar
Wow, Weave stays in.
2005-05-13 21:32:16
277.   Christina
Oh my God. He is still IN?!?
2005-05-13 21:32:20
278.   Langhorne
I can't believe they didn't bring in Yhency.
2005-05-13 21:32:20
279.   the OZ
2005-05-13 21:32:23
280.   Xeifrank
87.4 win expectancy with bases loaded 2 outs in 8th.
2005-05-13 21:32:27
281.   Vic
2005-05-13 21:32:59
282.   LAT
How many pitches in the dirt does he have to throw ubtil either Jim realizes he's done.
2005-05-13 21:33:06
283.   LAT
How many pitches in the dirt does he have to throw ubtil either Jim realizes he's done.
2005-05-13 21:33:26
284.   Xeifrank
almost hit em, would've took one for the team there.



2005-05-13 21:33:28
285.   MSarg29
Braves announcers calling out the Braves hitters for complaining about the strike zone.
2005-05-13 21:33:49
286.   Vic
2005-05-13 21:33:51
287.   Steve
He's playing probabilities. He's figuring it has to work once.
2005-05-13 21:33:52
288.   Xeifrank
Grand F-in slam. Tracy is fired!!!
2005-05-13 21:33:52
289.   mikethinksblue
2005-05-13 21:34:03
290.   Im So Blue
2005-05-13 21:34:04
291.   Marty
well, alrighty then
2005-05-13 21:34:20
292.   Christina
Jesus Christ.

And yet, so utterly PREDICTABLE!

2005-05-13 21:34:20
293.   Langhorne
And Tracy loses another one.
2005-05-13 21:34:37
294.   BMny
Why wasn't Wunch brought in for La Roche? In fact, why was Weaver still in the 8th?
2005-05-13 21:34:43
295.   MSarg29
breaking ball got too much of the plate.
2005-05-13 21:34:48
296.   mikethinksblue
Might as well leave him in now
2005-05-13 21:34:49
297.   Xeifrank
ok, now he takes Weaver out.
2005-05-13 21:34:49
298.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, that sucked.
2005-05-13 21:34:50
299.   LAT
McCourt should walk out of the stands onto the field and fire Jim tracy right there
2005-05-13 21:34:52
300.   BMny
Why wasn't Wunch brought in for La Roche? In fact, why was Weaver still in the 8th?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-05-13 21:34:54
301.   Marty
Tracy has to be stopped before I kill him or commit suicide.
2005-05-13 21:35:06
302.   Vishal


2005-05-13 21:35:22
303.   JeffinTokyo
2005-05-13 21:35:30
304.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2005-05-13 21:35:31
305.   Eric L

I've been critical of the Tracy bashing in the past... Can I jump on the band wagon?

Seriously there is no reason for Weaver to stay out there. Even if he doesn't want to bring in Ghame Over, there are still other options.. ugh.

Even though Weaver gave up the bomb, his pitching performance was just ruined.

2005-05-13 21:35:42
306.   Christina
Maybe Tracy feels our relievers can't stand the mental strain of coming into a game when we still have the lead, and a runner or two on base?


2005-05-13 21:35:46
307.   Xeifrank
Wunch wasn't brought in because of the righties on the bench who could ph. Still shoulda brought in Yhency.



2005-05-13 21:35:54
308.   fanerman91
That sucked indeed...
2005-05-13 21:35:59
309.   Christina
(And that was pure sarcasm on my part, NOT a defense of Tracy.)
2005-05-13 21:36:20
310.   MSarg29
son of a bitch
2005-05-13 21:36:21
311.   LAT
And you're saving Yhancy for what. . . ?
2005-05-13 21:37:00
312.   Bob Timmermann
I still think Quantrill could have gotten out Finley in 2003.
And I think Niedenfuer could have gotten out Jack Clark in 1985.


2005-05-13 21:37:05
313.   franklin
I should have kept playing Scrabble with the wife.


2005-05-13 21:37:18
314.   Xeifrank
Vin keeps talking about Weaver vs LaRoche or Wunch vs Rightie PH, doesn't he realize that Carrara was ready too?



2005-05-13 21:37:18
315.   Steve
I just want it noted in the books that I was there first. This guy has been ridiculous from the beginning. That was malpractice, and his ass should be on the street.

And I try. That was a tough call at the beginning of the inning. But once Furcal doubled...he should have been gone. Then he throws one in the dirt to Chipper trying to walk him? Then he gets to pitch to LaRoche? With Wunsch warmed up? Absolutely ridiculous. No more covering for this spineless bonehead idiot.

2005-05-13 21:37:35
316.   A E LUTHER
"Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball."

...and for having Jeff Weaver on my fantasy team.

2005-05-13 21:37:36
317.   Bob Timmermann
Padres win 3-2.
2005-05-13 21:37:39
318.   JeffinTokyo
What possible explanation can Tracy give this time? Pinch count low? Nope. Bullpen didn't have time to warm up? No. Still looking good out there. Definitely no. At least Wunch is now in there in a position to succeed.
2005-05-13 21:37:43
319.   the OZ
How much does it cost to rent one of those planes that tow a banner? I'm thinking we could take up a collection to have "Fire Jim Tracy" towed around the stadium during the Sunday day game.
2005-05-13 21:37:55
320.   Midwest Blue
i hate jim tracy. I hate Jim Tracy. I HATE JIM TRACCCCCYYYYY!!!!!!!
2005-05-13 21:38:00
321.   LAT
Will JT take responsiblity for this or deny it for a few days like he did to years ago in Az.
2005-05-13 21:38:27
322.   jeongers
I propose changing the verb in "Fire Jim Tracy." "Fire" just doesn't seem to be enough.
2005-05-13 21:38:29
323.   MSarg29
nice job wunsch
2005-05-13 21:38:41
324.   Marty
By the way, I was in the car listening to Charlie and Rick and Monday was talking about Phillips studying the Braves players last night. He said "he was going over the weaks and strengthnesses of the batters"
2005-05-13 21:38:41
325.   Xeifrank
Jim Tracy needs to work on his resume.



2005-05-13 21:38:45
326.   scareduck
286: Seconded.
2005-05-13 21:38:57
327.   LAT
Vin: "Here comes Jim Tracey. He made one call and that's it"

Yeah, he just made it way too late

2005-05-13 21:39:00
328.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
How did this just develop in JT in the last two weeks?
2005-05-13 21:40:06
329.   Owen
That was indefensible, even without the benefit of hindsight. Awful managing.
2005-05-13 21:40:12
330.   Christina
Robles in for Edwards?

Does Tracy think this is going to save the game?

2005-05-13 21:40:25
331.   MSarg29
Laroche has had a lot of success against us.
2005-05-13 21:40:42
332.   Eric L
I can (maybe) understand not using Yhency in that situation. The pitcher's spot is due up in the ninth (then again, a double switch coulda solved that one). Still, there are other guys in the freaking pen.

I would love to see Weaver's OPS (the offense obviously) with certain pitch counts throughout his career.

2005-05-13 21:40:44
333.   Landonkk
OK. Rich said in his interview that the media has given Tracy the benefit of the doubt so far, but if we go on a losing streak they might take notice of his bad calls. Can they please start noticing now. We have noticed it for a while, but you have to be BLIND not to see the mismanagement tonight. FJT!! Somebody print T Shirts so we cann all make a field trip to DS and sit behind Depo.
2005-05-13 21:40:47
334.   A E LUTHER

"I should have kept playing Scrabble with the wife"...

I should have kept running laps at my cancer fundraiser, man I just pulled up my chair to sit a while with the 2-0 lead and....blammo!

Let's hope Weaver keeps his cool-

2005-05-13 21:40:48
335.   Midwest Blue
The LA media (such as it is) should grill the hell out of Tracy until he admits he was playing Nintendo and not paying attention to what Weaver was doing.
2005-05-13 21:41:08
336.   Xeifrank
Tracy excuses:

1. Was busy watching Poker in ESPN2 in clubhouse.

2. Forgot phone number of bullpen

3. Had thousand bucks on Braves to win game.



2005-05-13 21:41:35
337.   JeffinTokyo
The only potential silver lining is that if JT keeps making this same mistake, meybe he will be canned before he can do it in the post season when it really hurts.
2005-05-13 21:42:02
338.   the OZ
Trying to refocus the discussion:

OK, we've got 6 outs left on offense and we need 3 runs to win. This is doable. C'mon.

They're gonna throw Kolb at us. We can do this!

2005-05-13 21:42:20
339.   ARGHjimtracy
ugh... i hate repeating myself, but until something changes... i have to say: jim tracy sucks!
2005-05-13 21:42:36
340.   Landonkk
319: I am sooo in. I'm serious. That would get the word out.
2005-05-13 21:42:38
341.   Xeifrank
atleast Yhency's arm will probably be saved. :(



2005-05-13 21:42:41
342.   Christina
It was just so apparent to me that Weaver was done by the end of the 7th. It wasn't a hard call at all to pull him for the 8th.

But, okay, he started the 8th...and went downhill, and Tracy had so many opportunities to pull him BEFORE the damn grand slam and did nothing. The incompetence is just appalling.

2005-05-13 21:42:41
343.   Langhorne
Jim Tracy is the best closer the other team has.
2005-05-13 21:43:37
344.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I still think Tracy's pluses outweight his minuses.

That being said, this was a truly awful managerial decision by Trace.

I think he was spoiled by having Gagne in the pen. If Game Over was available, Yhency would've been in there. Carrara would've been fine here, but Tracy has gotten so spoiled by having super-dominant setup men that he didn't recognize that Carrara was still a much better choice here than Weaver.

We have two more frames. Kolb looks shaky. Game ain't over yet...

Maybe Drew can stop looking lost at the plate.


2005-05-13 21:43:38
345.   Im So Blue
So, now how many times this season has JT left the starting pitcher in too long?
2005-05-13 21:43:46
346.   jeongers
Jim Tracy put LaRoche in a position to succeed.
2005-05-13 21:43:58
347.   Xeifrank
Dodger win expectancy only 14.1%

In other news:
Jim Tracy getting fired expectancy has jumped a few points too.



2005-05-13 21:44:03
348.   Bob Timmermann
Coming into tonight, LaRoche was 4 for 13 in his career against the Dodgers.

I wouldn't exactly say he was Stan Musial.

2005-05-13 21:44:15
349.   the OZ
Although it is funny that JT was quoted in a local newspaper about how Hoffman, Riggleman, or the other guy could be ML managers.

Because one of them might replace him before the end of the season.

2005-05-13 21:44:19
350.   Nick Iyengar
I've always sorta bought the media's treatment of JT as underrated, a great manager, etc. This season, though, I'm having major doubts. Weaver pitched great, why leave him out there to lose the game when he's already thrown ~110 pitches? What's the point of having a guy like Wunsch if you don't bring him in to face LaRoche? Ugh.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-05-13 21:45:14
351.   LAT
#337, If tracy keeps making this same mistake there won't be any post season
2005-05-13 21:45:34
352.   Marty
So lets say DePo DOES want to get rid of Tracy (and I endorse it heartily). How does he make it happen? Can he get away with just dumping him immediately? Maybe, politically, he can't axe the guy with the team tied for first. Do we have to wait until Tracy drags the team into 4th?
2005-05-13 21:45:43
353.   Steve
329 -- that's exactly right. You don't need any hindsight. That idiot Tracy and his media handlers always talk about second-guessing and nonsense. What about when 2 million people know that Tracy should pull him and he doesn't? We're all "second-guessing?" That's first-guessing. That's recognizing the perfectly bleeding obvious.

Is this supposed to help Weaver's confidence? Is this supposed to make him our go-to guy? He's a fourth starter! Pitching to their left-handed cleanup hitter on his 120th pitch! Is this putting people in a position to succeed?

I have been a DePodesta backer, and I forgave him for rehiring Tracy. No more. He caused this problem, and now he's got to solve it. Erickson. Gone. Grabowski. Gone. And Tracy. Gone.

2005-05-13 21:45:47
354.   Xeifrank
Maybe someone can get Jim Tracy pregnant so he goes on maternity leave.



2005-05-13 21:45:47
355.   Bob Timmermann
LaRoche wouldn't have batted against Wunsch.
2005-05-13 21:45:49
356.   Midwest Blue
David Letterman's Top Ten reasons Jim Tracy Didn't Pull Weaver:

Xei already provided three...

2005-05-13 21:46:14
357.   the OZ
Brazoban has thrown 13 innings this season.

Houlton has thrown 12.


2005-05-13 21:46:33
358.   Jim Hitchcock
It was my fault, guys. I had "LEAVE IT TO WEAVER" typed in and ready to submit.

Sharpening sepukku knife...

2005-05-13 21:47:50
359.   Christina
Izzy! Barrage of Singles!
2005-05-13 21:47:58
360.   JeffinTokyo
351. LAT, you are correct. I'm hoping DePo will quickly take away JT's ability to make that mistake.
2005-05-13 21:47:58
361.   Steve
Here's an idea, rather than bringing up that loser Robles with six outs left to go, why don't you bring in Choi (since the top of the order's coming up and you don't need him anyway), and then move Saenz to third for the Top of the Ninth? Saving him for extras? Idiot.
2005-05-13 21:48:16
362.   LAT
JT is improving--he didn't bring Grabo in to hit for the pitcher. . .little consolation.

Vin just said Grabl coming up and corrected himself

2005-05-13 21:48:20
363.   Xeifrank
Now if we could get the Braves to bring Houton in, we'd win for sure.



2005-05-13 21:49:28
364.   mikethinksblue
c'mon jd
2005-05-13 21:49:46
365.   Xeifrank
19.9 win exp



2005-05-13 21:50:16
366.   Xeifrank
wow, LaRoche pays us back.



2005-05-13 21:50:26
367.   franklin
332: I would love to see Weaver's OPS (the offense obviously) with certain pitch counts throughout his career.

Other than the first 15 pitches of the game, when Weaver gets touched for an OPS of .868, he really hurts after pitch 105, but then who doesn't?

seasons 2002-2005
Pitches 106-120 .326/.377/.516
Pitches 121-135 .357/.471/.500

2005-05-13 21:50:34
368.   Bob Timmermann
Where's your Messiah now, LaRoche? Huh?
2005-05-13 21:50:35
369.   the OZ
Turnabout is fair play, right, Mr. Kent?
2005-05-13 21:50:36
370.   JeffinTokyo
Nice Hustle JD!
2005-05-13 21:50:46
371.   LAT
If not now JD then when?
2005-05-13 21:50:51
372.   Christina
2005-05-13 21:51:01
373.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Oooh, that's big.
We may be watching "The Passion of the Saving of Jim Tracy's Bacon."
2005-05-13 21:51:10
374.   Xeifrank
33% win exp now thanks to the brain blunder from LaRoche.



2005-05-13 21:51:35
375.   franklin
earn your salary, Kent.
2005-05-13 21:51:59
376.   the OZ
Kent just missed a pitch to drive...
2005-05-13 21:52:07
377.   Xeifrank
Home Run Kent!!!

Ok, I am dreaming.



2005-05-13 21:52:18
378.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
JT's stupidity must be contagious. Single, single, E3 - and no visit from Mazzone?
2005-05-13 21:52:26
379.   JeffinTokyo
If the Dodgers do come back, I only hope it does not insulate Tracy from the extremely well-deserved criticism. Considering that, does that make me a bad fan to slightly hope the Dodgers don't cover his arse?
2005-05-13 21:53:08
380.   Xeifrank
Kolb has been awful of late, not surprised he isn't in.



2005-05-13 21:53:50
381.   Xeifrank
wow full count bases jacked
2005-05-13 21:54:00
382.   ARGHjimtracy
we can pretend this inning never happened, kent... it all depends on you.
2005-05-13 21:54:17
383.   Steve
379 -- I fight that battle every. single. night.
2005-05-13 21:54:26
384.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
They scored LaRoche's gaffe a single?
2005-05-13 21:54:28
385.   Xeifrank
yuck, come on Bradley, go yard again.



2005-05-13 21:54:46
386.   Bob Timmermann
The last time each team hit a grand slam in the same inning June 9, 1998. Anaheim got one from Cecil Fielder and Arizona from Yamil Benitez.

It's happened only six times in baseball history.

2005-05-13 21:55:03
387.   the OZ
I'll take a single here...
2005-05-13 21:55:04
388.   Xeifrank
RIP JT's job



2005-05-13 21:56:11
389.   Xeifrank
Gonna have another full count??



2005-05-13 21:57:14
390.   Vic
2005-05-13 21:57:16
391.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2005-05-13 21:57:17
392.   Xeifrank
holy bradley, slam
2005-05-13 21:57:21
393.   the OZ
2005-05-13 21:57:22
394.   Bob Timmermann
It's happened seven times in major league history.
2005-05-13 21:57:24
395.   mikethinksblue


2005-05-13 21:57:31
396.   ARGHjimtracy
can we have weaver pitch to bradley in consolation for having tracy as the manager?
2005-05-13 21:57:31
397.   Im So Blue
I don't believe what I just saw!!!!!
2005-05-13 21:57:37
398.   Langhorne
2005-05-13 21:57:47
399.   Xeifrank
Meet Milton Bradley the new Dodgers player/manager.



2005-05-13 21:57:50
400.   Owen
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-05-13 21:57:53
401.   Jim Hitchcock
Knife back in rack. Tracy kissing Bradley's ring.


2005-05-13 21:57:54
402.   JeffinTokyo
Are you kidding me?
2005-05-13 21:57:59
403.   Christina
2005-05-13 21:58:07
404.   Eric L
Wow.. is this stupid bullpen management night at Dodger Stadium?

Way to go Milt!

2005-05-13 21:58:09
405.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The manager who makes the last mistake, loses.
2005-05-13 21:58:09
406.   Albert in Hong Kong
2005-05-13 21:58:13
407.   franklin

the offense bails JT out again.

2005-05-13 21:58:16
408.   Steve
2005-05-13 21:58:24
409.   Xeifrank
Laroche goes from hero to Goat.
2005-05-13 21:58:33
410.   the OZ
...As Tracy tries to find a way to put Weaver back in to close out the game...
2005-05-13 21:58:40
411.   ARGHjimtracy
wow... i love milton bradley.
2005-05-13 21:58:52
412.   Bob Timmermann
The last time there were two grand slams in any one inning before tonight was on April 23, 1999.

It was at Dodger Stadium.

Chan Ho Park was pitching....

2005-05-13 21:58:56
413.   Midwest Blue
It was JT's plan all along to increase interest in the game.

Just helpingthe boss in marketing. What a genius!

Jim Tracy Best Manager ever (until next time)

2005-05-13 21:58:57
414.   Christina
What a game for Milton to be in his groove...YEEEEEES!
2005-05-13 21:59:05
415.   Xeifrank
Jim Tracy looking for quirk in the rule book which would let him bring Weaver back into the game.



2005-05-13 21:59:08
416.   Albert in Hong Kong

but milton.. oh my.

Is this a dream?

2005-05-13 21:59:13
417.   Icaros
That's why Steve Finley is not on this team.
2005-05-13 22:00:01
418.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Cox and Tracy are two of the smarter managers in the game, but what are they smoking tonight? Not even a visit to the mound!
2005-05-13 22:00:10
419.   Xeifrank
Hope the "Ghame Over" T-Shirt gang is enjoying the circus.



2005-05-13 22:00:26
420.   Christina
The Barrage of Singles followed by the salami...way to go, boys!
2005-05-13 22:00:29
421.   PeterB
# 416
Well, my wife was dreaming (it is 1 AM in NYC)... until I just woke her (and all of our neighbors) up.
2005-05-13 22:00:35
422.   the OZ
And a doff of my cap to Timmermann for looking up the last time two teams each hit a GS in the same inning.

It's happened 7 times EVER, and you 'called' it. Amazing, my friend.

Viva Los Dodgers.

2005-05-13 22:00:57
423.   Bob Timmermann
Weird that Vinnie would use a Phil Regan anecdote tonight?

Phil, Giovanni.
Giovanni, Phil.

2005-05-13 22:01:07
424.   Xeifrank
Think Tracy can still find a way to lose it?



2005-05-13 22:01:16
425.   stevo
#412 i forgot about that game, thanks bob
2005-05-13 22:01:34
426.   adg
So I'm guessing in case this score holds, Carrara is going to get a win thanks to getting one guy out. Is it me, or does he seem to get quite a few of those?
2005-05-13 22:02:37
427.   Xeifrank
won't be watching tonight's game on ESPN Classics.



2005-05-13 22:02:50
428.   Albert in Hong Kong
Xeifrank reminds us. Game is not over. Jim Tracy might still find a way to lose. Hold the cheering.


2005-05-13 22:02:57
429.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Insurance would be good.
2005-05-13 22:03:09
430.   the OZ
Milton homers from each side of the plate for the 2nd time this season.

Vin is a step behind you, Bob, saying it's the 4th time in Nat'l league history that the two-slams an inning thing happened.

2005-05-13 22:03:28
431.   Xeifrank
Was that Jim Tracy they just showed eating Cotton Candy?



2005-05-13 22:03:31
432.   Steve
Choi for Edwards idiot! Go for the kill!
2005-05-13 22:03:55
433.   adg
And now please keep it going Mr. Choi.
2005-05-13 22:04:02
434.   Steve
I hate when he tries to make it up to me.
2005-05-13 22:04:03
435.   Christina
Two more singles, and here comes Choi...
2005-05-13 22:04:12
436.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
"won't be watching tonight's game on ESPN Classics."

Sure we will!
"Welcome to ESPN Classic's week of When Managers Attack!"

2005-05-13 22:04:26
437.   adg
Oh no, I bet their going for their own LOOGY.
2005-05-13 22:04:41
438.   Bob Timmermann
Carrara would be in line for the win. There is no reason why he wouldn't deserve it if the score holds.
2005-05-13 22:04:44
439.   Christina
Hey, Gameday doesn't even have a photo for this new pitcher, Foster. Ha!
2005-05-13 22:04:44
440.   Icaros
Wow, listen to the crowd chant for Hee Seop. It didn't take much for them to start liking him.

Wonder what it will take for Tracy to start liking him?

2005-05-13 22:05:00
441.   Langhorne
Friday the 13th. Weirdness.
2005-05-13 22:05:01
442.   adg
And JT counters with, wait for it, Grabowski.
2005-05-13 22:05:41
443.   Midwest Blue
Oh. joy. Hot Choi.
2005-05-13 22:05:52
444.   Xeifrank
Choi's 11th appearance vs a lefty?



2005-05-13 22:06:25
445.   adg
Or maybe that's only Lasorda who would fake out the other team with one batter just to make them change pitchers.
2005-05-13 22:06:27
446.   stevo
anyone know the record in a season for hr both sides in a game?
2005-05-13 22:06:40
447.   Jim Hitchcock
# 412 was Bob's Ross Porter moment.
2005-05-13 22:06:48
448.   Xeifrank
Choi is having a Nakamura type at bat so far.



2005-05-13 22:07:14
449.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2005-05-13 22:07:15
450.   mikethinksblue
nice hitting Choi!
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-05-13 22:07:19
451.   ARGHjimtracy
whoa lhp? jim tracy might crap his pants... he didn't know a LEFT HANDED PITCHER might face choi...
2005-05-13 22:07:20
452.   Xeifrank
haha, a cheap single to LF.

Jim Tracy for President.



2005-05-13 22:07:24
453.   franklin
2005-05-13 22:07:25
454.   Icaros
Eat that Tracy, you idiot! Give him a chance!
2005-05-13 22:07:27
455.   the OZ
Choi. Eat some eel tonight. My treat.
2005-05-13 22:07:34
456.   Steve
John Foster is an idiot! YAYAYAYAY!
2005-05-13 22:07:50
457.   Christina
448 - and as soon as you post that...hee!

The Barrage of Singles continues...

2005-05-13 22:07:55
458.   Albert in Hong Kong
Wow that was a good pitch.

And nice job, Choi.

2005-05-13 22:07:58
459.   Midwest Blue
Braves announcers were dumping all over our boy until he got his bloop.


2005-05-13 22:08:22
460.   stevo
a hit agianst a lefty! SB is dancing somewhere
2005-05-13 22:08:24
461.   Steve
2005-05-13 22:08:28
462.   Bob Timmermann
Each team with a slam in the same inning:
5/18/1950 - NYG (Irvin) and CHC (Walker)
6/18/1961 - WAS (Tasby) and BOS (Pagliaroni)
9/12/1974 - ATL (Evans) and CIN (Geronimo)
4/14/1980 - CLE (Orta) and TEX (Sundberg)
9/9/1992 - CHC (Sandberg) and PIT (King)
6/9/1998 - ANA (Fielder) and ARI (Benitez)
5/13/2005 - ATL (LaRoche) and LAD (Bradley)
2005-05-13 22:08:46
463.   Xeifrank
Dodgers need a four run lead or greater to protect themselves from next innings grand slam.



2005-05-13 22:08:58
464.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
OZ, when I'm out for sushi I always order unagi.
2005-05-13 22:10:18
465.   Christina
Was that pitch really as low as Gameday had it? Damn, Robles!
2005-05-13 22:10:19
466.   Steve
Robles almost rhymes with Hopeless.
2005-05-13 22:11:04
467.   Steve
It also had the distinction of being a foot outside.
2005-05-13 22:11:09
468.   Midwest Blue
News Flash: Tracy feels game is getting out of hand. Pinch hits Grabowski to close inning and puts in Houlton to make this game interesting.
2005-05-13 22:11:20
469.   Xeifrank
97.9 win expectancy going into the bottom of the ninth for the Dodgers. The calculator does not take into account that Jim Tracy is managing though. :)



2005-05-13 22:11:26
470.   Im So Blue
#426 So I'm guessing in case this score holds, Carrara is going to get a win thanks to getting one guy out. Is it me, or does he seem to get quite a few of those?

It just seems that way. Carrara's wins were on April 12, 19 & 24. He pitched 2, 1 and 2 innings in those games.

2005-05-13 22:12:04
471.   Xeifrank
Ghame Over!!!
2005-05-13 22:12:19
472.   mikethinksblue
Christina, it was an old school Beltre way low and far away 3rd strike swinging pitch.
2005-05-13 22:12:20
473.   Christina
467 - ah. Gameday had it as practically hitting the ground, but in the middle of the plate. Scary to hear it was even worse than that.

I was hoping Robles would get caught up in the general surge of singling/homering...

2005-05-13 22:12:29
474.   the OZ
464 - Eel is Hee Seop's favorite dish. Thanks to SB's facts of Choi for the information.
2005-05-13 22:12:34
475.   franklin
Choi sporting an .830 OPS vs. LHP. End the platoon! Only 8 AB but gotta start somewhere.
2005-05-13 22:12:58
476.   Steve
Please don't walk Brian Jordan.
2005-05-13 22:13:02
477.   adg
For shame, Choi's stats are starting to look better than Drew's.

Do I think that means we should promote Choi to the number 3 spot?

No, I don't.

2005-05-13 22:13:11
478.   Bob Timmermann
There have been 2 major league games where there have been THREE slams. Once in 1986 and again in 1987.

No team has ever hit more than two in one game.

The Braves have five games with 2 slams. The Dodgers have 3.

2005-05-13 22:13:19
479.   Albert in Hong Kong
"The mixed emotions of Adam LaRoche."
2005-05-13 22:13:27
480.   Jim Hitchcock
Does anyone doubt Bradley is this years Beltre?
2005-05-13 22:13:37
481.   Xeifrank
Higggggggggh heat!
2005-05-13 22:13:42
482.   Steve
Thank you. Brian Jordan looked foolish on those last two (I got my TV back)
2005-05-13 22:13:52
483.   Christina
One down!
2005-05-13 22:13:56
484.   Albert in Hong Kong
Nice fhastball.
2005-05-13 22:13:57
485.   jeongers
Wow, went for a walk to the 7-11 to blow off some steam and get some coffee. I come back and we're back up by three? I'll be damned.

I guess I'll have to do this ever time the Dodgers need a rally. The Rally Coffee, or the Rally Slushee.

And Jim Tracy lives to manage another day. He's like a cockroach.

2005-05-13 22:14:14
486.   Eric L
Robles swung at the pitch to make sure that Yhency still had a save opportunity...
2005-05-13 22:14:51
487.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
1. The word "eel," especially when capitalized, is one of my favorites in the English language.
2. If Choi likes eel, then he has good taste in food (no pun intended). Unagi melts in your mouth like butter. Heavenly.
2005-05-13 22:15:07
488.   the OZ
Can any Spanish-speakers educate me on the meaning of the word 'brazo?' It seems to mean a number of things according to the all-knowing Internet, "arm" among them.

Does 'Brazoban' really mean, in English, 'something-arm?'

Cause that would be cool.

2005-05-13 22:15:25
489.   Xeifrank
ohne mhore ohut.



2005-05-13 22:15:28
490.   Christina
Two down!
2005-05-13 22:16:13
491.   mikethinksblue
Who's the pitcher of record for the Dodgers? Could Weaver get the win?
2005-05-13 22:16:53
492.   Xeifrank
Brazoban is spanish for "Bad MoFo"



2005-05-13 22:17:08
493.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Gio will get the win.
2005-05-13 22:17:14
494.   the OZ
"vhr" = hilarious, Xei.
2005-05-13 22:17:30
495.   mikethinksblue
Ha, Vin just compared LaRoche to Bill Buckner
2005-05-13 22:18:05
496.   LAT
"Adam Larouch could make a phone call to Bill Buckner" OUCH!
2005-05-13 22:18:08
497.   adg
Is there any way to see Carrara's breakdown by game for 2004?
2005-05-13 22:18:14
498.   Eric L
Yhency was all of two (give or take a couple of months) when Franco had his first MLB at bat.

Yhency wasn't even born when Franco made his pro debut.

2005-05-13 22:18:51
499.   Christina



2005-05-13 22:18:52
500.   the OZ
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2005-05-13 22:19:03
501.   Bob Timmermann
It even works when the t-shirt is in the dryer.
2005-05-13 22:19:06
502.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
LaRoche would be lucky to have a career like Buckner's. 2,715 hits - that's good.
2005-05-13 22:19:14
503.   Xeifrank
Bat in the stands and Ghame is Over!

Stars of the game:

1. Bradley
2. Bradley
3. Bradley



2005-05-13 22:19:25
504.   Mr Customer
Gio gets the win.
2005-05-13 22:19:35
505.   franklin
its not truly GHAME OVER until Bob T makes the call...
2005-05-13 22:19:57
506.   Steve
I have to admit that this team is sucking out every little bit of my faith.

But I believe in Milton Bradley.

2005-05-13 22:20:01
507.   Bob Timmermann
2005-05-13 22:20:22
508.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. Memorable game.
2005-05-13 22:20:23
509.   Xeifrank
Anyone going to the game tomorrow?

Is it Perez vs Hampton?

assume Choi won't start again.



2005-05-13 22:20:25
510.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ghood night!
2005-05-13 22:20:55
511.   Langhorne
Well, that was fun.
2005-05-13 22:21:17
512.   Vishal
i am SO glad we used yhency with nobody on base, instead of with the bases loaded and 2 out, when we could have used a STRIKEOUT instead of a grand slam.
2005-05-13 22:22:37
513.   Steve
Milton Bradley gets the win. And the save.
2005-05-13 22:23:02
514.   mikethinksblue
Well, Gagne back soon, maybe JT's bullpen strategy will straighten itself out
2005-05-13 22:23:07
515.   In Enemy Country
I usually try and give the benefit of the doubt to any manager with regards to in game decisions. However, I cannot in good conscience defend Tracy's move tonight with Weaver. At the very least you have to pull him after the Furcal double simply to keep him from getting the loss. I'm all for getting our starters confidence up, but leaving Weaver in to give up a granny is counterproductive. However, Tracy has forgotten more baseball than most of us know and for the most part he has been an excellent manager.
2005-05-13 22:23:48
516.   LAT
Tracy should buy MB dinner for a week
2005-05-13 22:24:06
517.   Jim Hitchcock
Tracy is shooting for an Emmy in the Best Drama:Sports category, Vishal.
2005-05-13 22:25:22
518.   the OZ
ALT+0153 = ™
2005-05-13 22:25:50
519.   Vic
Anyone want to guess how many times the Fox Sports post-game show has mentioned Jim Tracy's futility thus far?
2005-05-13 22:25:56
520.   Jim Tracy
I am an idiot... What was that, Paul Quantrill, episode XVI?? I have to stop doing that. Man, I am glad that Bradley saved my ass. Too bad we'll lose him next offseason like we lost Beltre because no one is rushing to lock him up long-term.
2005-05-13 22:26:19
521.   LAT
The only good news from what JT did tonight is he must realize how lucky he was and learned his lesson. Hopefully he got the message without suffering the loss. Is that expecting too much?
2005-05-13 22:27:34
522.   Eric L
Bradley will only have 4+ years of ML service time next offseason.. they won't lose him, unless they non-tender him.
2005-05-13 22:29:11
523.   the OZ
LAT - I would expect so, except that tonight was at least the 2nd time that JT's been bailed out, yet he repeated the same mistake. And that doesn't count the times the Dodgers weren't able to rally a win.

Some once told me that the very definition of insanity is taking the same action repeatedly while expecting a different results.

2005-05-13 22:29:27
524.   Albert in Hong Kong
#521, that is really not likely. He's had so many chances to learn his lesson this season.
2005-05-13 22:32:37
525.   Steve
521 - yes.
2005-05-13 22:33:32
526.   Langhorne
They should still offer Bradley a multi-year deal. Milton just said he was going over to Weaver's house after the game to hang out.
2005-05-13 22:36:31
527.   Langhorne
SCSR is going to interview Tracy. My head might explode listening to his justification.
2005-05-13 22:37:42
528.   LAT
Baseball Tonight just led off with a Dodger Clip. Of course it was RaplhBarenca in 1951 but hey its a Dodger on ESPN. All things coming up LAD on Fri the 13th.
2005-05-13 22:38:24
529.   Eric L
It would probably be a good idea to offer Bradley a long term deal, if only to save the mess of going through arbitration.

He has two more years (after this year) of being arb eligible. Maybe they can offer him a long term deal after the 2006 season.

2005-05-13 22:39:20
530.   Jim Hitchcock
Phillips just took responsibility for calling the wrong pitch that resulted in the slam.

All around good guy.

2005-05-13 22:39:25
531.   mikethinksblue
Phillips is justifying leaving Weaver in to pitch the 8th on the SCSR
2005-05-13 22:42:40
532.   mikethinksblue
wow, check out Lindsey Soto covering the Avengers.
2005-05-13 22:43:40
533.   Eric L

Would the Plaschkers monster gain any points with you if they slammed Tracy? (btw, I'm not being snarky).

Most of the conventional wisdom goons are giving a lot of credit to Tracy for "pulling the team together" with all the off-season moves. Course, they needed to find a way to jusify the hot start after all the DePo slamming. (not necessarily Plaschkers).

2005-05-13 22:46:24
534.   LAT
Mark Gubazan (sp?) on the SCSR said leaving Weaver in was the right decision.

The other day someone asked if Fox still owned a piece of the Dodgers after Frank's refi. Based on how Fox is shilling for Tracy the answer must be yes. What an idiot. I guess even Kevin Kennedy wouldn't go that far so the had to dig up Gubazan

2005-05-13 22:47:39
535.   Langhorne
Either SCSR lied or I heard wrong. Phillips is a man. Were you listening Scott Erickson?The guy on SCSR explained it all for me though. You have to leave the starter in because it's his game to win or lose. I guess we can get rid of that bullpen and add five or six more bench players. Shh, if you listen closely you can hear my head banging against the desk.
2005-05-13 22:50:56
536.   LAT
Of course that little turd Eckstien went 0 for 4 tonight
2005-05-13 22:55:43
537.   Eric L
Ugh.. all this "leave the starter in, it's his game" rhetoric is BS.

I would be able to rationalize the argument if the Dodger bullpen was like the Cubs. I don't buy it when you have Gio or Yhency (or Wunsch).

2005-05-13 22:58:04
538.   Langhorne
"Why would you take him out? Why would you take him out?"

That is the bulk of Tracy's defense. I think I'm going to vomit.

2005-05-13 23:01:23
539.   In Enemy Country
So Mark Gubicza, a pretty good big league pitcher, said it was a good move and LAT, a guy I'm pretty sure never played an inning in the big leagues, calls him an idiot. Managers make errors, often. That's baseball. It doesn't make him an idiot and it doesn't make you a good manager. There are hundreds of decisions Tracy makes in every game that are right and I don't see anyone giving him credit for those. If he gets all the blame for the losses, which on this site he usually does, then he gets all the credit when they win. And yeah, maybe this was a lucky win but are you telling me that the Dodgers haven't had any unlucky losses this year?
2005-05-13 23:05:04
540.   Langhorne
The strength of Weaver's game untill the eighth inning is not a reason to leave him in after he has obviously lost that strength.

Tracy: The only hard hit ball was by the other teams pitcher.

Untill the single and double in the eighth.

Tracy: He pitched very well to Chipper Jones.

He walked him.

2005-05-13 23:05:47
541.   Steve
Media people reveal their ignorance every day in every way. They are only right by accident. With that said, I can't imagine Jason Phillips or another player coming out and undermining anybody on the team. That's what has me so inflamed about Erickson right now. So Phillips et. al get a pass, the media is collectively idiotic (and we knew that already), and Steve Henson is going to kill Tracy tomorrow, because Henson is competent. Watch.

Eric, it would not. Plaschke has repeatedly given Tracy credit that belongs elsewhere, and his slamming Tracy now would simply be either 1) a response to his W-L record, which as I've made clear is irrelevant to me (regardless of whether it's relevant, it's not relevant to me, to make it clear) or 2) caving to what would already be conventional wisdom. Simers has hit Tracy with the Micro Manager tag, but Simers has no credibility, since he hates everyone. He's probably right part of the time, but it's like filling in D for every answer on the SAT. You get some of them right.

2005-05-13 23:08:43
542.   Marty
Sorry, IEC. It was just so obvious to anyone watching that Weaver was done. Tracy has a great reliever in Ghame Over and decided not to use him to get 4 outs. That is a stupid decision. If he pulls Weaver and it doesn't work out, no one on this board complains. It's apparent to me that Tracy does not think anyone in his pen can hold a lead in the eighth. That is a clear sign (to me) that he doesn't deserve to stay on as manager.
2005-05-13 23:15:18
543.   LAT
Enemy, let me first acknowledge that you are right. I have no business calling him an idiot. Too harsh. That being said the debate over JT has raged at this site since last season. Many of us have acknowledged that JT does not get credit when he makes the right move. Of course, that's his job. But tonight was so obviously the wrong move it is hard to justify. Moreover, if it hadn't been the fifth or sixth time this season it wouldn't be so maddening. I like Tracy, thought he was treated sabbily in the off season and was glad he was resigned. However, this was an especially bad choice which was evident to even the most casual fan.
2005-05-13 23:18:31
544.   Bob Timmermann
The Ghame Over t-shirt came through a washing in fine shape I must report.
2005-05-13 23:21:24
545.   LAT
Did anyone at the game see a Ghame over or Home Depo shirt among the crowd? We should'nt rest until we see one on TV.
2005-05-13 23:23:19
546.   Eric L
Tracy know more about managing a baseball team than I do, I'll give him that. Tonight he made a bad decision, but he's done it more than once this year. I think that is why everyone is giving him heat.

As for Mark Gubicza, he knows a heck of a lot more about pitching in a major league game than I will ever know. That doesn't mean that he automatically knows about bullpen management. Besides, he was a starter (aside from '93). Based on his insight, I'm assuming that he wouldn't want to come out of a similar game either.

I would rather hear Gubicza talk about Scott Erickson's situation or something like that. He has a ton of insight on what it is like to be a ML pitcher that is trying to hang on and just doesn't have it anymore.

2005-05-13 23:24:10
547.   bigcpa
AZ's run differential is now 158/185.
2005-05-13 23:27:07
548.   Jose Habib
Sorry to be playing catch up, but what did Erickson say?
2005-05-13 23:29:36
549.   Steve
Bob Melvin is brilliant. The next Jim Tracy.

That's absurd. Jim Tracy does not take "all" the blame when he loses here or anywhere else. He takes that which he deserves. The blogosphere is the only place where he does.

2005-05-13 23:30:45
550.   bigcpa
As of next week there will be 50 TEAM DEPO shirts in circulation. That should get us some airtime. We must be vigilant.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2005-05-13 23:35:45
551.   bigcpa
2005-05-13 23:39:43
552.   GoBears
Wow - IEC, did you study logical reasoning under Steve Lyons? That was just insane. To say that Gubicza knows better than we do just because he has experience is ridiculous. For this game, he was in the same position we were - just watching, with no inside info on anything. That he was a starter himself, and thinks that starters should always be able to stay in if they want to also suggests that he's not the right person to ask about this. Finally, believe it or not, it's entirely possible that Jim Tracy, with all his inside info and experience, nonetheless makes dumb decisions because he can't see the forest for the trees. The person most involved is often the worst judge of the situation. To assume that the person on the inside always knows best is just plain wrong. Just look to Joe Morgan for exhibit A on how experience (even greatness) is neither necessary nor sufficient for cogent analysis. Moreover, it produces biases.
2005-05-13 23:40:06
553.   Im So Blue
548: Sorry to be playing catch up, but what did Erickson say?

From the Daily News:,1413,200~28569~2865035,00.html

Erickson was torched for three home runs and seven earned runs in 4 innings in Tuesday night's win over St. Louis, after which he insisted he had pitched better than the results indicated and implied his defense let him down at times. The only play to which
Erickson specifically referred was a high foul pop by Reggie Sanders that fell between three fielders just before Sanders hit a solo homer, accounting for one of the seven runs Erickson surrendered.

A day later, Tracy seemed to take exception to Erickson's comments.

"A couple of balls left the building," Tracy said. "It's hard to make those plays, too."

2005-05-13 23:40:13
554.   LAT
My Shawn Green loving daughter has spent the first 35 games this year looking for a new favorite Dodger. It has come down to Drew and Bradly. After tonight's game she declared Milton Bradly her guy. I sure hope he continues to keep himself under control.

She is still head of the SG marching and chowder society but he isn't making it easy. I suspect she opted for Bradly becasue to root for Green and Drew would be too painful.

2005-05-13 23:48:21
555.   LAT
If he is going to be her favorite player I better spell his name correctly. Geez.
2005-05-13 23:48:56
556.   GoBears
In re-reading a bit, I feel like a moron. I took IEC's bait and stepped in it. As though acting contrary for its own sake is useful to fruitful conversation. I obviously didn't need to say any of the above (#552) as counterpoint to a (figurative) poke in the eye. Sorry about wasting the bandwidth.
2005-05-13 23:49:50
557.   Langhorne
There is an old school unwritten rule that when a starter lets the go ahead run on late in the game he should be allowed to either get out of it or let the runs in himself instead of watching a reliever do it. This is stupid. This situation is why God created closers. If Weaver was fine why did Tracy pull him after the slam? Surely, he wasn't any different after one pitch. He should have let Weaver finish the game and get the win. He didn't because he has a very good closer. The whole point of the closer is to shorten games. Tracy didn't use his closer to the teams best advantage to achieve this aim tonight.
The two biggest decisions a manager makes on any given night are filling out the line-up card and when to pull the starting pitcher. Tracy has done these only adequately at best.
2005-05-13 23:50:38
558.   GoBears
Re 554-5: From the mouths of babes. That your daughter chose MB as her new man in blue speaks highly of his chances to keep his head on straight this season. Cuz she wouldn't pick him if he were still a hot-head, right?
2005-05-14 00:02:24
559.   GoBears
Well put, Langhorne (557). I would extend your logic beyond the closer, however, to include most of the bullpen, especially the Dodger pen. 1 or 2 guys ar probably there just to suck up innings in blowouts (I'm sure that was Houlton's intended role before Gagne and Alvarez got hurt). But the rest are there to "relieve." That Weaver was in need of relief was apparent to everyone except the one guy who could make that decision. And, as others have said, this is not the first such mistake (in prospect and in retrospect).
2005-05-14 00:02:26
560.   LAT
If only he had been her favorite player last year he would not have thrown the beer bottle, spilled the ball bag or taken on that police officer in Ohio. But let's give credit where credit is due, he has been a model citizen thus far.
2005-05-14 00:09:02
561.   GoBears
Yup, I'm rootin' for Milton.

In other news, I just read the ESPN story on the game. No explicit discussion of the decision to leave Weaver in, but they do mention that that was his 119th pitch. Just the facts, I guess.

2005-05-14 00:10:46
562.   Steve
Steve Henson didn't write up the game. Bill Shaikin, last seen telling us about the Giants record without Barry Bonds in 1995, did. No mention of Jim Tracy. Good thing there's a blogosphere.
2005-05-14 00:49:21
563.   GoBears
Did someone already point out that the D-Bax are 5 games above .500, despite a run differential of -27? That can't last. Even before today's -15, they were +4 viz. Pythagoras. Now they're +5. Either Bob Melvin is a freakin' genius or they've just been very lucky so far.
2005-05-14 01:16:36
564.   Bob Timmermann
In the AP story about the Padres-Marlins game, Florida starter Josh Beckett was upset because he felt he was pulled too early and the bullpen gave up what proved to be the deciding run.
2005-05-14 02:13:51
565.   patsweetpat
As a Mariner fan, I can assure you that Bob Melvin is not a freakin' genius.
2005-05-14 02:28:56
566.   GoBears
565: Yeah, that's what I figured. Must be the other thing, then.
2005-05-14 09:31:12
567.   mph
I hereby nominate Jim Tracy for the "Grady Little Manager of the Year Award." People who say that we're only criticising him after the fact should have heard my fiancee and I screaming at the radio five minutes before the slam.

See y'all at the game tonight. Don't know where we're sitting yet, but I've got my Ghame Over shirt on (in commemeration of Yhency's first night as not-the-closer?).

2005-05-14 10:47:05
568.   Linkmeister
Somebody take a digital camera along to get a picture of all those Ghame Over shirts on their proud owners!
2005-05-14 10:58:24
569.   brendan glynn
I'll be in Field 46, don't know the row. Wearing the Ghame Over shirt
2005-05-14 13:41:59
570.   Colorado Blue
Gee, I wish I could be at Dodger Stadium with Ghame Over on too. It would be a fun little hunt looking for the rest of you. I'll have to settle for wearing it in the family room with the Braves (or is it Brave's, or Braves's... oh, nevermind) game announcers on TBS and pray they are not as hackneyed, cliched, and overly biased as Joe Buck. I thought this guy was supposed to be consummate professional? I guess he is on the national broadcasts, but could sure use a few lessons from Vin on the local stuff.

Just to add my 2 cents on last night's game:
1) I echo mph exactly; was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what Tracy's rationale for leaving Weaver in could have possibly been.
2) MB has been my favorite since last year, tribulations and all. Last night just further solidified my position.

Tracy owes Milton a dinner for helping to tone-down the after game scolding I hope he received from McCourt as well.

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