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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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May 22 Open Chat: Trendspotting
2005-05-22 08:44
by Jon Weisman

Today's Game

Brad Penny pitched well Saturday, but against the lineup the Angels put out there, he should have pitched well. The pitching staff has still been the main problem.

Yes, it was discouraging it was to see the Dodger offense turn John Lackey into Katie Brownell. Sometimes, the hitters just don't have it. The fact remains, though, that the hitters have had it this year more than the pitchers have, and one game does not change that.

Comments (224)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-22 09:12:57
1.   Brian Y
Considering Perez and Weaver both look to have arm problems, Penny still isn't the pitcher he once was, and Erickson is worthless thus far with no real indication he can be a quality 5th starter, Why not let one or two of the potential SP's get a shot?

I'm talking about Chad Billingsley, Edwin Jackson, and Duaner Sanchez. And if Ketchner gets back maybe give him a few spot starts in September after we have clinched the west.

Our pitching staff is decent but if we can find a gem in one of them then we at least know who will fill our SP void when Weaver undoubtedly gets let go after the year and insurance in case Penny decides to find greener pastures. I would rather NOT sign a big name SP especially considering that no one really sticks out on next year's FA list.

2005-05-22 09:14:34
2.   Howard Fox
Is it time to start whining yet? Or should we wait til the all-star game?
2005-05-22 09:15:54
3.   Howard Fox
I can handle lack of hitting. I can't handle consistently poor pitching and mediocre defense (regardless of that the statistics may or may not show).
2005-05-22 09:19:04
4.   Brian Y
Also, our hitting IS a problem. We count on timely hitting and working counts. Well we still work the counts but the timely hitting has been missing. I can't wait for Jayson Werth to get back on Tuesday when I believe his minor league rehab stint ends. No power but he's stealing bases in AAA (5 SB's 1 CS).

Does anyone know why Saenz wasn't playing 3B yesterday because he normally plays 3B with Penny on the mound since he's a flyball pitcher. I can't wait til we see Saenz the DH, he's one of our best hitters right now and can't afford to not have him in the line-up.

2005-05-22 09:23:39
5.   Brian Y
Oh and for those that are interested, Andy LaRoche hit his 13th and 14th HR's for Vero Beach yesterday and is now batting at a healthy .354 avg with 6 errors in 42 games. Not bad for high A ball!
2005-05-22 09:28:46
6.   Colorado Blue
Is it time to start whining yet? Or should we wait til the all-star game?

I would suggest waiting until the end of July and see how we are faring... after sub-500 May and June last year we went 21-7 in July. I good July acquisition would help.

Unfortunately, I'm not getting to see or hear the Freeway Series at all and have had no time to follow the boxscores, but I agree with Brian Y: let's kick the Erickson habit and try some of the youngsters. I would argue, however, that our starting pitching has not been decent as evidence by being 13th in the NL in pitching with an ERA of 4.79.

Fortunately, 14th and 16th place are held by SF and CO respectively.

2005-05-22 09:29:45
7.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

May 22, 1956

Coming off their first ever World Series championship, the Brooklyn Dodgers started out the 1956 season shakily. They fell into fourth place in the National League with a 16-12 record after dropping a 7-3 game to the Milwaukee Braves at Ebbets Field. The Braves got home runs from Henry Aaron, Eddie Matthews, and Johnny Logan to give Bob Buhl his third win of the season.

Carl Erskine took the loss for the Dodgers. Three relievers finished the game for the Dodgers after Erskine left in the 6th. Clem Labine, Ed Roebuck and Sandy Koufax finished up. Starting pitcher Don Newcombe pinch hit for Roebuck and drew a walk and manager Walter Alston sent rookie pitcher Don Drysdale in to run for him.

Sandy Amoros homered for the Dodgers in the 8th, but the game had long gotten away from the Dodgers. In the third inning, the Braves threw out two Dodger runners at the plate trying to score.

The 1956 Dodgers had a successful, yet tumultuous season. The Dodgers played part of their home schedule at Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City amid rumors that the team might move. Milwaukee and Brooklyn battled for first place all season. The Dodgers won their last three games of the year against Pittsburgh while the Braves lost 2 of 3 to fourth place St. Louis. But in the World Series, the Yankees, thanks in part to one Don Larsen, prevailed in seven games to avenge their defeat from the year before.

The Dodgers received another big year from center fielder Duke Snider who led the NL in home runs (43), walks (99), OBP (.399) and SLG (.598). Newcombe went 27-7 with a 3.06 ERA. Former Brooklyn nemesis Sal Maglie was picked up by the Dodgers in May and he went 13-5 with a 2.87 ERA. The ill-fated Ralph Branca came back to pitch one game for the Dodgers on September 7 to end his career.

Aging problems were starting to show in the Dodgers despite the championship. Roy Campanella (34) batted .219. Jackie Robinson (37) played in only 117 games and Alston kept moving him throughout the lineup and on the playing field. Pee Wee Reese (38) batted .257.

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-05-22 09:30:18
8.   Colorado Blue
BTW: Any eyebrow-raising moves by Tracy in this series?
2005-05-22 09:33:47
9.   dzzrtRatt
I hate slumps. I admit, I don't understand them. What happens to make an entire team looked weak and befuddled in every aspect of their game?

I know this virus eventually dies down, and we'll start winning again. I like the Dodgers' situation better than the Giants'.

One way I've seen the Dodgers and other teams break out of slumps is when a pitcher, perhaps unexpectedly, peels off some great wins. Sometimes it's a rookie--Bob Welch in '78, Fernando in '80. Sometimes it's a veteran--Alvarez in '03 comes to mind. If I were DePodesta right now, I would try this: Release Erickson, and tell Tracy to give one of the young pitchers mentioned above a start. They couldn't do worse, and they might rise to the occasion. Position it as a vote of confidence in the organization. If it works, the funk could end.

2005-05-22 09:35:23
10.   Brian Y
There are so many eyebrow-raising moves by Tracy I don't know where to start. My biggest complaint honestly has to be Choi batting 2nd. I understand the OBP thing but why have a double play or K guy in front of a 3 hitter? And why oh why is Drew still hitting 3rd? And I think Kent needs a day off too. I could handle this line-up for a day:

SS Cesar Izturis
2B Antonio Perez
1B Hee Seop Choi
CF Milton Bradley
RF J.D. Drew
3B Olmedo Saenz
LF Ricky Ledee
C Jason Phillips

2005-05-22 09:37:50
11.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Royals would love to send Jose Lima back to L.A. They wouldn't ask for anything more than maybe giving Allard Baird a free dinner at Matsuhisa.
2005-05-22 09:38:35
12.   Brian Y
I would just rather live and die hoping we may see a glimpse of hope with one of our young guys than watch Erickson make a mockery of the Dodger name with his pitching. The Dodgers are known for their pitching and we dissapoint everyone by throwing a loser with a dead arm like Erickson out there every 5th day. And he seems like such a cancer by taking pot shots at our defense every start!
2005-05-22 09:41:17
13.   Brian Y
There are plenty of SP possibilities out there that are/will be available but I don't see Vicente Padilla, Randy Wolf, or Eric Milton as any better than our trio of Billingsley, Jackson, or Sanchez.
2005-05-22 09:55:08
14.   JeffinTokyo
I'm with D-Rat on gonging Erickson (GG the Dancing Machine would be an upgrade) and giving someone else a chance. I nominate Duaner Sanchez. He's still young, has good stuff, and was a starter just 2 years ago.

Also, like Bri-Y, I'm having the same eye-brow elevation issues over Tracy's moves. In the past, Tracy's incompetence was saved by the roster. He had a rotation of 7-inning starters, which led to no-brainer bullpen decisions. He had a solid defensive team with a weak bench, which left little room for second guessing on pinch hitting. In short, he rarely had to make a tough call. This year's team however, requires much more finesse. At least so far, Tracy has shown that, in this regard, he lacks the necessities.

2005-05-22 10:29:36
15.   Doug N
In regards to the idea of bringing some prospects up for a ML tryout after the imminent release of Erickson:

Does anyone know if there's a statisical comparison of mid-season callups vs rookie years? Any trends, or the such?

2005-05-22 10:35:10
16.   Bob Timmermann
Are you referring to rookies who start the year on the big league roster as opposed to rookies who started the season in the minors and then got called up mid-season?

I think there are many more who start in mid-season, especially if you count players who start as September callups.

2005-05-22 10:56:27
17.   JeffinTokyo
ESPN had an articl speculating that DePo's track record indicates we should not be surprised if he traded Gagne or Yhency. In my opinion, Gagne is untouchable for both marketing and team impact reasons. However, I think DePo has shown already that he is a proponent of a hybrid version of Billy Beane's strategy of trading overrated closers for value. Much like DePo traded Mota last year, I expect him to spin Yhency for a 3rd baseman or starting pitcher. I mean, Yhency was almost trade in the offseason, and now with his saves proving is closer ability, his value is at its peak (if you ignore his past two outings). For me, it is not a question of if he will be traded, but when and for whom.
2005-05-22 10:58:09
18.   JeffinTokyo
Please add an e to articl and recognize that it is 2:58am in Tokyo.
2005-05-22 11:17:37
19.   Bob Timmermann
Jeff, you made more typos than that one, but judging by the hour, I'm just wondering how you plan to do any work tomorrow!
2005-05-22 11:22:58
20.   JeffinTokyo
As you all know, "jumped the shark" has made it into the venacular (thanks to Bill Simmons I believe) denoting the point in which someone or something's coolness/relevance/popularity has passed.

But what should we use to describe the other side when someone has stepped his game up to a new level of prominence?

I offer "mastered his domain," a nod to the classic Seinfeld self-satisfaction episode, to describe that point when someone/thing arrives.

With this in mind, I've been pondering this the past few days: Has Cesar Izturis "mastered his domain?" I believe that he has. I also believe that Bradley has as well (although he is always one outburst away from riding his Harley over the shark tank).

I am interesting in hearing other Dodgerthoughts devotees' critiques on both "mastered his domain" as an expression and the players I believe have done so.

2005-05-22 11:29:49
21.   JeffinTokyo
19. Bob: Fortunately, I have the day off. Yes, among other things, I should have said tradeD.

And my point,which I did not make so clear, was that instead of trading closers, I think DePo will trade set up men. And instead of saying overrated, I should have said overvalued.

2005-05-22 11:30:43
22.   Bob Timmermann
Season 4 of Seinfeld is coming out on DVD this week so "The Contest" will be available for our scrutiny. My mother sheepishly admitted that that was her favorite episode.

"It's so wrong to laugh at that topic, but I couldn't help it!"

For me I would apply "Master of one's domain" to baseball if a player has overcome a habit that is bad (I'm trying to be oblique here, so we don't turn this into a non-family rated discussion.)

Last year, Adrian Beltre was master of his domain because he stopped swinging at curve balls in the dirt and went the other way. This year, after about two weeks in Seattle, he walked in Mike Hargrove's office, took $100 out, slapped it on the manager's desk and said "I'm out!"

I think Bradley is "Master of his Domain" in that his bad habit was his temper. I'm just very impressed with the way he handles himself. I don't think this is necessarily some sort of psychological miracle. There are several hockey players who have gone from being a goon with a lot of penalty minutes to being a valuable scorer (like Stan Mikita). I think it's possible that an athlete needs to mature a little and realize just what he can do if he doesn't get angry all the time.

2005-05-22 11:42:14
23.   JeffinTokyo
Bob, good stuff. Your mom sounds cool.

I also wanted to keep it PG, which is why I decided not to go with my original expression: "played chess with his unit," which for me at least was the episode were Seinfeld "arrived."

My original intent was more to describe the point where a player has established himself, but I like your usage of it.

Hopefully Beltre got his C note back after the bomb he hit yesterday.

2005-05-22 11:49:29
24.   Marty
More understanding than my mother Bob. Mine walked out of the theater after the hair gel scene in "There's Something About Mary"
2005-05-22 11:59:46
25.   Bob Timmermann
Unfortunately, my mother passed away before "Something About Mary" came out. But she was the one who told me to watch "Seinfeld". She watched it from the very first episode and was quite taken with it.

I think she might have drawn the line on that one.

Strangely, my mother found the Swedish film "My Life as a Dog" morally repulsive.

2005-05-22 12:07:43
26.   Bob Timmermann
America's Grittiest Player (TM), David Eckstein, has made three errors in the first two innings in Kansas City to put the Royals up 6-0.

Albert Pujols has singled in 2 to cut the deficit.

2005-05-22 12:12:54
27.   dzzrtRatt
My mother took my brother to "Coming Home," the Jane Fonda/Jon Voight anti-Vietnam War film, when he was about seven years old. Although Voight is a paraplegic, there is a love scene with Fonda in which he demonstrates one sexual technique that his disability still allows him to perform. La Fonda begins gasping in ecstasy. My little brother starts to freak out, like something terrible is happening. "Mom, what's he doing to her!?" My mom: "He's...he's...he's..." and then she clapped her hands over his eyes. I gather he was relieved.
2005-05-22 12:14:24
28.   JeffinTokyo
Why is Scott Erickson still on the roster? Are they going to wait until the off day to send him out to stud? Personally, I would rather have Werth called up and drop down to 11 hurlers.
2005-05-22 12:18:53
29.   The Anc
It makes you wonder what it will take to get Erickson sent down or released. Even if Perez is injured, isn't it better to call someone up who might be better, rather than go with someone who you know will perform poorly?
2005-05-22 12:20:54
30.   Bob Timmermann
Looking at the Angels lineup today, don't expect a lot of offense again:
Figgins CF
Kennedy 2B
Erstad 1B
Anderson LF
Rivera RF
McPherson 3B
Cabrera SS
Paul C
Byrd P

Perhaps Scioscia just wrote out the pitcher's full name in the 8 and 9 slot.

Drew bats 2nd and Choi bats 3rd today. Perez gets another start and bats 8th.
All the other usual suspects in the same place with Ledee being the LF du jour.

2005-05-22 12:20:55
31.   dzzrtRatt
Buried in my post above was a suggestion that cutting Erickson right now would give a morale boost to the team. I can't imagine they enjoy being in the company of this finger-pointing, past-his-prime hack with a prima donna complex. Just cut him. If Perez isn't ready to come back, run Sanchez out there or call up Chad Billingsley. Even if they fail, too, at least they won't be a-holes about it, and from their failure, they would learn something and become better pitchers. All Erickson is learning is how to burn bridges.
2005-05-22 12:21:23
Lineups posted: Drew has been dropped, er, raised in the batting order, essentially switching spots with Choi.
2005-05-22 12:24:13
33.   Bob Timmermann
Where's our Erwin Santana?
2005-05-22 12:28:59
34.   Marty
Drew batting 2nd is better than 3rd, but maybe not as good as 5th. Someone else sugested Bradley, Kent, Drew for 3-4-5 and I thought that sounded about right.
2005-05-22 12:34:43
35.   Jim Hitchcock
Re # 77: First out loud laugh of the day, DzzrtRatt.

So, would it be too much of a shock to everybody's system if, like, we actually won a game today? You know, for old times sake?

2005-05-22 12:35:35
36.   Jim Hitchcock
Upon further reflection make that # 27...
2005-05-22 12:36:33
37.   JeffinTokyo
Ex post facto, I read yesterday's game comments with interest. (Blisfully, I was sleeping during the game.) Reading the insightful and humorous comments (often in the same passages) helped soften the blow of another painful loss.

The key take away for me from reading the comments is that I am now sold on re-thinking the use of the "closer." I'm all for making them fireman again, extinguishing dangerous hot spots at the most crucial point, even if it is not at the end of the gam. For me, the 7th inning on should be fair game. I agree that Gagne should have been used to douse yesterday's 8th inning flame.

Don't you think if the next manager came to him and said, "Gagne I am going to change the way I use you. I want you in the game at the most crucial late inning situation. It may come in the 7th, perhaps in the 8th, but not always in the 9th. In short, I want you on the mound when the threat to the team is the greatest. So, if in the 8th inning, the opponent's 3-4-5 batters are coming up, I might use you there instead of in the 9th. Or, I might throw you with a couple of runnings on base in the 7th with Kleslo and Nevin coming up. Either way, I want you to know that you are my most valuable reliever."

I would like to believe that Gagne would be ok with this. I would like to think that he is not obsessed with saves, and that he would be willing to do what's best for the team, even with Scott Boras as his agent.

Feel free to tell me how naive I am.

2005-05-22 12:55:50
38.   Jim Hitchcock
The half hour show Vinny does on Sundays is so wonderfully hokey it makes me pine for the days
of Sheriff John and Engineer Bill.
2005-05-22 12:57:29
39.   Fearing Blue
#34: I like Drew a lot better batting 2nd than 5th. He's having trouble getting clutch hits, but he's still getting on at a great clip (.374 OBP). Additionally, his contact ability and speed should help avoid the double-play. The fifth slot is more of an RBI position. I'm very happy with today's lineup, especially with Perez in it.
2005-05-22 13:10:53
40.   Bob Timmermann
How many pitches before Figgins steals second?
2005-05-22 13:12:16
41.   Bob Timmermann
How many pitches before Figgins steals third?
2005-05-22 13:13:11
42.   JeffinTokyo
38. Jim: What memories you bring back. Sheriff John "put another candle" on my 5th birthday cake.

At 5:00am in Tokyo, the sun was doing what it is famous for in the land of the rising sun, and my ability to stay awake had just about jumped the shark, especially after hearing Charlie Steiner tell me that the Dodgers have won just 10 of the last 28 games and that their starting* 3rd basemen have 1 homerun.

Then, Vin wished me, "A pleasant Sunday to you, wherever you may be" and I can't bring myself to shut down my computer.

*One of Valentin's long flies came as a PH.

2005-05-22 13:13:47
43.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, a CS by the Dodgers?

Woo hoo!

2005-05-22 13:14:44
44.   GoBears
Feel free to tell me how naive I am.

JiT: You're naive. Not because of your pitching ideas, but because you attributed "jump the shark" to the Sports Guy, Bill Simmons. Actually, probably not naive. Probably just young. No offense intended.

This is a reference to a "Happy Days" episode in which the gang goes to LA, and Fonzie water-skis and literally jumps a shark on a dare. This became a metaphor for when a series goes south, having run out of plot ideas. Ironically, "Happy Days," which certainly did suck by that point, went on to another 100+ episodes after that one, which says more about the state of TV in those days than anything else.

2005-05-22 13:16:24
45.   Bob Timmermann
#44, Jeff was referring to Bill Simmons stretching the shark jumping analogy to sports.
2005-05-22 13:16:24
46.   GoBears
Geez, that was a fast, furious, and frustrating half-inning. Scioscia runs the team in and out of trouble. And Kent gets Choi's back. Now, if he'd only do that with the bat...
2005-05-22 13:17:51
47.   GoBears
I know that Simmons does this. He also spends almost as many column inches on TV and movies as he does on sports, which is fine. But I apologize to Jeff if that's what he meant. I'm just feeling old and curmudgeonly lately.
2005-05-22 13:19:59
48.   Bob Timmermann
Vin is confusing Paul Byrd with Paul Wilson.
2005-05-22 13:20:39
49.   JeffinTokyo
44. GoB, I know "jumped the shark" came from Happy Days. I'm not that young (I saw the episode in its 1st run). That's why I picked another sitcom reference. I just thought the saying was first used by Simmons, or at least he brought it into populr usage.
2005-05-22 13:20:58
50.   JeffinTokyo
44. GoB, I know "jumped the shark" came from Happy Days. I'm not that young (I saw the episode in its 1st run). That's why I picked another sitcom reference. I just thought the saying was first used by Simmons, or at least he brought it into populr usage.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-22 13:23:09
51.   Bob Timmermann
I for one am reallly looking forward to an off day tomorrow.
2005-05-22 13:24:44
52.   GoBears
49/50: Yeah, sorry Jeff. I was out of line. But I think Bob's interpretation is more accurate - Simmons may be the first guy to transfer the phrase to sports. It was used to refer to TV series for 20 years before the advent of the Sports Guy. Still, I like the application to sports, and like "Mastered his Domain" as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Jim Tracy has any hope of mastering HIS domain.
2005-05-22 13:25:45
53.   Bob Timmermann
It always come down to the semiotics of catch phrases here doesn't it?
2005-05-22 13:28:18
54.   Bob Timmermann
Erickson to the pen says Vin! Well, that's closer to Las Vegas and/or oblivion.
2005-05-22 13:30:21
55.   GoBears
54: yeah, but not close enough. Boy, that was a terrible pitch that Rivera hit out. A curveball that started high and dipped right into the wheel house. Ouch. Good for Rivera to not miss it.

So Alvarez will take Perez's next start? OK for now.

2005-05-22 13:30:43
56.   JeffinTokyo
Thanks Bob and GoB. Bob for getting my reference and GoB for schooling me on the fact that "jumped the shark" predated Page 2 (and your positive comment on "MhD".)
2005-05-22 13:31:27
57.   Dodgerkid
Pat Mahomes where art thou?!?!
2005-05-22 13:32:33
58.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Schmidt will be pitching for the Giants Tuesday.

The Dodgers have to be able to score more than 1 run today. It's Paul Byrd out there!

Paul Byrd!

Paul Byrd!

2005-05-22 13:33:11
59.   Steve
Now who's going to take Weaver and Lowe's next starts?

If it wasn't for Mike Scioscia, we could have just forfeited these games. What a buffoon.

2005-05-22 13:33:41
60.   Bob Timmermann
If Perez is disabled do the Dodgers reactivate Werth or do they bring up somebody like Mahomes to fill in?
2005-05-22 13:34:54
61.   Bob Timmermann
Ledee got the memo that it was PAUL BYRD pitching.
2005-05-22 13:35:00
62.   Jim Hitchcock
Gollee, Ricky!
2005-05-22 13:35:06
63.   Marty
What Ledee just hit right there. I can't remember what you call that?
2005-05-22 13:36:04
64.   Bob Timmermann
In Seattle, Padre pitcher Tim Stauffer walked Pat Borders. Does that qualify under the Grabowski Principle?
2005-05-22 13:36:12
65.   GoBears
"Little Awful Annie?"
2005-05-22 13:37:08
66.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, geez, Marty...a touchdown.
2005-05-22 13:37:15
67.   JeffinTokyo
Well, at least Ricky Ledee realizes that:

"It's Paul Byrd out there!

Paul Byrd!

Paul Byrd!"

2005-05-22 13:39:38
68.   Steve
Completely and totally healthy Mark Prior goes 126 pitches to win a complete game 4-3 decision. Who says Dusty Baker only manages out of self-interest?
2005-05-22 13:41:07
69.   Jim Hitchcock
Sinker down.
2005-05-22 13:44:04
70.   JeffinTokyo
Listening to Vin talk about the disabled veterans breaks my heart. I can't help think how much better things would be if the Texas Rangers' previous owner had stayed in that position.
2005-05-22 13:44:39
71.   Bob Timmermann
Chan Ho Park, Brian Shouse, and Francisco Cordero combine on a 2-0 shutout.

But it was against the Astros, so I don't think that counts for as much.

2005-05-22 13:45:30
72.   Marty
The downside would be that we might still have Chan Ho Park if the previous Ranger owner had stayed.
2005-05-22 13:46:27
73.   Marty
Though reading #71, it might not be that bad this year.
2005-05-22 13:46:56
74.   Jim Hitchcock
With you all the way, Jeff.
2005-05-22 13:48:00
75.   Bob Timmermann
So is Antonio Perez doing a better job of not stinking at third base compared to the others who have played there this year?
2005-05-22 13:49:51
76.   Bob Timmermann
The productive out followed by the unproductive out.

The positive and negative Olneys cancel each other out.

2005-05-22 13:51:12
77.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey! We're playing scrappy today!
2005-05-22 13:51:29
Like a fat girl, J.D. gets a possible slump buster RBI.
2005-05-22 13:51:33
79.   GoBears
Drew will take that one, after mashing two yesterday that turned into 3 outs.
2005-05-22 13:52:10
80.   Steve
Baby Steps for JD...
2005-05-22 13:54:00
81.   Marty
So, I wonder what Jon has been doing these last two days. Working on the logo?
2005-05-22 13:54:20
82.   Nick Iyengar
Hey all. What's the opinion on the impact of moving a player up or down in the batting order? For example, I like the move of Drew into the #2 spot, because he gets on base and can run. However, do we think changing his spot in the batting order is really going to make him more likely to get a hit? I don't really understand the logic of a swap in the batting order if the goal is ending someone's slump.
2005-05-22 13:57:11
83.   Bob Timmermann
Jon went to the game yesterday if you noticed the counter changing.
2005-05-22 13:57:55
84.   Marty
I didn't notice, thanks
2005-05-22 13:58:18
85.   Jim Hitchcock
BTW, was Lowell's nose broken the other day?
2005-05-22 13:58:57
86.   Marty
His bat certainly appears to be broken
2005-05-22 14:00:51
87.   Steve
Tim Brown thinks Mike Lowell's nose is cute.
2005-05-22 14:01:06
88.   Marty
Hey, I just saw in a crowd shot an attendant taking a beach ball away from someone. Employee of the month!
2005-05-22 14:01:30
89.   Bob Timmermann
I saw some of Florida's game. Lowell went 2 for 4 and he didn't look his nose was broken. His face didn't look too bad. I would think that playing third base with a broken nose isn't a good thing. Line drives and all that.
2005-05-22 14:02:23
90.   Bob Timmermann
Yesterday the usher in my section ASKED a kid to hand her the beach ball and he gave it to her. The look on his face was like "I thought you were going to keep hitting it!"
2005-05-22 14:02:35
91.   Jim Hitchcock
They're having an employee beach party after the game, Marty.
2005-05-22 14:02:39
92.   Marty
playing with a broken nose would make you go up in the scrap index though.
2005-05-22 14:03:31
93.   JeffinTokyo
Charlie Steiner just said "gesticulated." he was referring to Lowe's reaction to not getting a called strike. I don't think I've ever heard that word uttered on a sports broadcast before.
2005-05-22 14:03:52
94.   GoBears
Lowell was fine, apparently, nose-wise.

Nick - I think the hope is just that shaking things up will somehow lead to different results. But studies have shown that batting order doesn't matter much if at all. Now, if you move a guy from leadoff to 8th, then he'll get 3-4 fewer PAs per week, which might matter a little.

So far, the Drew-Choi swap seems to have hurt Choi (and Izzy!) as much as it's helped Drew.

2005-05-22 14:07:32
95.   Jim Hitchcock
Guess that would mean that Steiner `articulated'.
2005-05-22 14:08:33
96.   Jim Hitchcock
Nice warm day for a catnap, eh, Milton?
2005-05-22 14:12:02
97.   Nick Iyengar
Would Bradley have scored on that double?
2005-05-22 14:14:22
98.   Jim Hitchcock
No, he would have wound up at second. It was a high popup that fell between 3 players.
2005-05-22 14:14:58
99.   capdodger
No. There would have been only one out, so he would have gone halfway on the fly ball. He would have made it to second, maybe third.
2005-05-22 14:15:24
100.   Bob Timmermann
If Bradley hadn't been picked off, it would have been 1st and 2nd with one out.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-22 14:15:28
101.   Nick Iyengar
Okay, the pickoff makes me a little less bitter, then.
2005-05-22 14:17:06
102.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Gameday forgot to mention Bradley was picked off. I had assumed he was thrown at home.
2005-05-22 14:18:04
103.   Steve
102 -- so had I, which put me in a bad humor, but I decided to wait it out to make sure.
2005-05-22 14:19:37
104.   Steve
Dear ESPN:

Please hold all future Derrick Turnbow career-turnaround articles for someone who really deserves them.


The Management

2005-05-22 14:21:12
105.   alex 7
wow, let's trade for Figgins and stick him in left field. Izturis, Figgins, Bradley, Kent, Choi, Drew, Phillips, Perez.

I'll admit I just hopped on and found it more fun to figure out what's happened in the game by reading these comments than by checking gamecast.

2005-05-22 14:21:24
106.   Bob Timmermann
The Brewers are the current Heavyweight Champions of baseball. Check out the sidebar of "Catfish Stew".
2005-05-22 14:23:02
107.   Jim Hitchcock
Perez makes me pine for the days of Norihu Nakamura.
2005-05-22 14:24:16
108.   Steve
Izturis and Figgins at the top of the lineup? Like giving crack to an addict.
2005-05-22 14:24:31
109.   Marty
pizza! pizza!
2005-05-22 14:24:38
110.   JeffinTokyo
runner on 2nd, no outs, pitcher up. To me, if ever a sac bunt is justified, it is now.
2005-05-22 14:25:38
111.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
A lead! A lead!
When was the last time the Dodgers had one?
2005-05-22 14:25:56
112.   Bob Timmermann
When Wills had his 208 hit season, he had 179 singles, which is an LA Dodger single season record. Tommy Davis had 167 singles in 1962.

The Dodgers got a lot of hits in 1962.

2005-05-22 14:26:04
113.   alex 7
ceasar broke out of his 0-2 slump. Must have been gnawing at him.
2005-05-22 14:26:37
114.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers led 2-1 in the last Marlins game.

Then Carlos Delgado came up with Lo Duca on...

2005-05-22 14:28:20
115.   Fearing Blue
#108: Perfect response.
2005-05-22 14:28:32
116.   Steve
Pitchout. Scioscia drinking his own Kool-Aid.
2005-05-22 14:30:04
117.   ARGHjimtracy
i must say... i think the #3 spot in the lineup is bad luck.
2005-05-22 14:30:39
118.   Fearing Blue
Steve, thank you for the post re: Mark Prior. Even though Tracy makes some questionable decisions, he certainly isn't Dusty Baker.
2005-05-22 14:31:09
119.   alex 7
Figgins is 14-16 stealing bases. Tracy can play around with that crack all he wants.

I figure Kent will turn it around against SF starting Tuesday.

2005-05-22 14:32:54
120.   Steve
Opposing teams go to .400 on 0-2 counts.

118 -- I don't grade on a curve.

2005-05-22 14:33:33
121.   Steve
Please bunt.
2005-05-22 14:34:03
122.   alex 7
so in our universe, Gagne comes in here right?
2005-05-22 14:34:11
123.   Marty
Lowe needs to step it up here.
2005-05-22 14:35:13
124.   Steve
No. Brazoban.
2005-05-22 14:36:05
125.   Marty
Steve, I agree. I only say Lowe needs to because Tracy will never replace him in this situation.
2005-05-22 14:36:16
126.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres have been shut out through six by the imposing Aaron Sele. Mariners lead 3-0.
2005-05-22 14:36:38
127.   alex 7
sorry steve, in my universe, I thought it was the 7th inning already.
2005-05-22 14:37:58
128.   Steve
Marty, I was answering 122. I haven't said a word about replacing Lowe. The smokejumper idea is a good one, and Lowe is not exactly killing people, but it would be an arguable strategy (might work, might backfire) to employ it in this case.
2005-05-22 14:40:09
129.   Marty
Ok. Since Lowe seems to lose it fast and had just given up back to back hits, I would entertain replacing him in that spot. But Tracy wouldn't so I have to root for Lowe to get himself out of it :)
2005-05-22 14:40:33
130.   Bob Timmermann
4-0 Mariners now. Stauffer walked Borders again. And then gave up an RBI single and got yanked.
2005-05-22 14:41:02
131.   Steve
Just so we're all perfectly clear what happened yesterday, the Angels scored the go-ahead runs in the EIGHTH inning. We have an under-utilized closer and are in the midst of a titanic slump which would have been a 10 game losing streak if LaRussa and Cox hadn't both brain-farted in the middle of it. Different situations require different strategies, which is exactly why you DON'T ROBOTICALLY USE FRICKING CARRARA IN A TIE GAME IN THE EIGHTH INNING, THEN BRING GAGNE IN IN THE NINTH LOSING BY TWO RUNS!
2005-05-22 14:42:27
132.   Jim Hitchcock
Go for two, Ricki!
2005-05-22 14:43:04
133.   Steve
129 -- we all have to root for that. It's all we have left. My own opinion in the present case is that if Lowe can't get out of it himself, who can? Carrara?

I am not sure that walking Borders once merits a GP. But doing twice does.

Hey guys. Don't get in a hurry or anything. Still plenty of baseball left. Let's see if we can make this at least a six pitch inning.

2005-05-22 14:43:32
134.   Bob Timmermann
It wouldn't have been a 10-game losing streak. The Marlins lost their one game to the Dodgers 14-5.
2005-05-22 14:44:12
135.   Steve
134 -- duly noted.
2005-05-22 14:45:52
136.   heato
Knock on wood...

That was the inning that the starters have not been able to get out of for the past month...

Knock on wood

2005-05-22 14:52:51
137.   Bob Timmermann
Ooh, the 7th inning crisis has passed.

But the Angels will have the "heart of the order" up in the 8th: Kennedy, Erstad and Anderson.

Well, some part has to be the heart.

2005-05-22 14:53:52
138.   Jim Hitchcock
Go for two!
2005-05-22 14:54:13
139.   Bob Timmermann
It's also nice to face Angel relievers not named Donnelly or Shields or Rodriguez.
2005-05-22 14:54:38
140.   Steve
Erstad is the heart of the order. Figgins, the soul.
2005-05-22 14:55:25
141.   Steve
2005-05-22 14:55:55
142.   alex 7
2005-05-22 14:57:08
143.   Marty
I think that's about as far as Robles can hit it.
2005-05-22 14:57:12
144.   Jim Hitchcock
What, did Robles' ball hit a gravity well, or something?
2005-05-22 14:57:19
145.   Steve
I just don't get it. I'm not going to say that I disagree with this. I think you could go either way today. But why does he keep hooking Lowe at 80 pitches, while letting Weaver go 120 and Erickson go 50 (which in pitching conversion charts = 150)?
2005-05-22 14:57:48
146.   alex 7
I bet tracy can't pass up a hit and run opportunity here.
2005-05-22 14:57:49
147.   Bob Timmermann
5-0 Mariners now over the Pads.

Still just 3 singles off of Sele for San Diego.

Arizona-Detroit 0-0 going to the bottom of the 7th.

2005-05-22 14:59:02
148.   Langhorne
Pitching didn't lose yesterday's game. Our offense did. Everyone, including DePo, knew our pitching would be average. Which is why he went after consistent hitters like Drew and Kent and below average hitters with power like Ledee and Valentin. This team should be scoring 7 or 8 runs a game. The pitching shouldn't matter much. Pitching is thin everywhere which is why Erickson, Park, Nomo, Ishii and Lima still have jobs. As far as this game goes; what do you want from Lowe? Seven strike outs, no walks balls to strike ratio of 1-4. Now Yhency will come in, followed by Gagne. Just as God intended. And Jason Phillips, aka "The Whopper" gives us an insurance run.
2005-05-22 14:59:15
149.   Jim Hitchcock
Sneezer is the man!
2005-05-22 14:59:53
150.   Marty
pizza! pizza!
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-22 15:00:23
151.   ARGHjimtracy
coaching visit to mound:

coach: what's going on? that was oscar freaking robles!
gregg: oh THAT was robles? i thought that was antonio perez!
coach: perez just flied out!
gregg: oh wow! i got perez to fly out!

2005-05-22 15:00:24
152.   alex 7
steve, you'll hurt yourself trying to think along Tracy's wavelengths. Let's just assume he hates Weaver, simple as that. Oh, that and Weaver needing 120 pitches to get to Tracy's comfortable 7th inning.
2005-05-22 15:01:01
153.   Bob Timmermann
And I'm wearing my Ghame Over shirt for the first time today!

Woods is the only lefty in the Angels pen. I think Choi will get to hit off of him regardless of the situation.

2005-05-22 15:02:23
154.   Steve
152 -- I think you've just explained that splitting headache I've had for several months.
2005-05-22 15:02:32
155.   Fearing Blue
I say, "Yay! The Dodgers are going to win a game." My wife responds "Yeah right. They still have two more innings to get spanked." Sigh.
2005-05-22 15:02:34
156.   alex 7
IF this were Choi hitting, Saenz would be pinch hitting now. But it's Drew so...

he'll come through here though.

2005-05-22 15:02:59
157.   Marty
Wow. I could get used to this.
2005-05-22 15:03:07
158.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey! I remember this team!
2005-05-22 15:03:40
159.   Steve
Baby steps...
2005-05-22 15:03:41
160.   alex 7
FB, one smart wife there huh? train her or did she catch on to Dodger blue on her own?
2005-05-22 15:04:46
161.   GoBears
This team should be scoring 7 or 8 runs a game.

Hopefully, that was just poetic license. Expecting any team to score 7-8 runs per game, especially one playing in Dodger Stadium, is a bit much. But the general point is right. This team should be higher in league tables on offense than on defense/pitching. And guess what? They are. Lead the NL in OBP.

2005-05-22 15:04:58
162.   Marty
Shoot. Choi hit it hard
2005-05-22 15:06:18
163.   Steve
The bug planted in Tracy's mind...

Nice AB Hee Seop. Too bad it didn't work out.

2005-05-22 15:08:17
164.   KAYVMON
That was really weird
2005-05-22 15:08:34
165.   Bob Timmermann
The 1930 Yankees averaged 6.9 runs per game.

And they finished in second place.

The really good offensive teams the last few years (Red Sox and Yankees mainly) have been putting up R/G close to 6, but not over 6.

2005-05-22 15:08:55
166.   Vishal
kent cost us a run by not heading to first quicker.
2005-05-22 15:09:09
167.   Jim Hitchcock
Say, how 'bout we try try out Erickson from the bullpen?
2005-05-22 15:09:36
168.   GoBears
Tough day for Choi. At least Tracy let him hit.

1. Choi hits against a LHP with RISP.
2. Drew and Choi are swapped in the lineup.
3. Tracy doesn't leave his starter in too long.
4. Perez seems to be the everyday 3bman.
5. Brazoban is first guy out of pen.

There might be some hope for Tracy after all.

2005-05-22 15:09:38
169.   Fearing Blue
#160: She has picked up on how many nights a week I end up bitter. Of course, those comments don't help any.
2005-05-22 15:10:48
170.   GoBears
166: I was wondering about that. UPN 13 didn't show the play at first base, so all I got was Vinnie telling me he was out.
2005-05-22 15:10:51
171.   alex 7
hmm, why did Robles stay in for Perez at 3B??

You're gonna pinch hit for Brazoban IF his turn comes up whether he's in the 8 or 9 hole. Weird.

2005-05-22 15:11:01
172.   Bob Timmermann
Dbacks break the deadlock in the 8th.
2005-05-22 15:11:43
173.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume that Tracy doesn't think Perez is his best defensive third baseman.
2005-05-22 15:12:35
174.   GoBears
By the way, since Howard isn't around to point it out - Lowe executed two sacrifices perfectly.

And in other news, 2 RBI for Drew, on cheap hits. His luck might be turning....

2005-05-22 15:14:04
175.   alex 7
Bob, I've only seen highlights, but Perez has shown range and Roble's "high"lights have been everything but. Am I missing something or is Tracy just throwing us a curveball for complimenting him a few posts earlier.
2005-05-22 15:15:11
176.   Marty
Now, Ghame Over looked good there. Do you bring him back to start the ninth?
2005-05-22 15:15:46
177.   Bob Timmermann
A.Perez is still pretty new at the position.

He wants Perez to leave the game in a position to succeed.

2005-05-22 15:16:29
178.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have an off day tomorrow so unless the Dodgers score 10 runs here, Gagne will pitch.

If they score 10, then it's Houlton Time!

2005-05-22 15:16:45
179.   Jim Hitchcock
I think he's just trying to get Robles some playing time. No point in trying to read to much into it.

Of course, that's what we do here :)

2005-05-22 15:16:48
180.   Steve
Tracy will probably have Edwards, Repko, and Bako hit to ensure that it remains a "save situation."
2005-05-22 15:16:48
181.   GoBears
176: Well, Tracy might, if (and only if) the Dodgers score again, to eliminate the save situation. If it's a 3-run lead, I'm betting on Gagne.
2005-05-22 15:17:54
182.   GoBears
179: Maybe that should be the DodgerThoughts motto.

"DT: Reading too much into it."

2005-05-22 15:18:35
183.   Bob Timmermann
Gagne hasn't pitched on consecutive days yet has he?

Might as well see how he does.

2005-05-22 15:18:38
184.   alex 7
what combination looks better...

Brazoban and Perez/Valentin
or a trade (Brazoban and a 3B prospect) that gives us
Sanchez/Carrara as the 8th inning guy and a "name" 3B?

2005-05-22 15:21:20
185.   Linkmeister
Yahoo tells me Izturis has yet another multi-hit game. He's having the same kind of break-out year that Beltre had last year (in his own way).
2005-05-22 15:24:22
186.   Bob Timmermann
3rd base is not a good position in Southern California this year.

The best third baseman in Southern California is Sean Burroughs.

Pretty much by default.

2005-05-22 15:24:27
187.   Langhorne
This is Anaheim baseball!
2005-05-22 15:25:28
188.   alex 7
except Ceasar's signed long term so it has nothing to do with steroids and a walk yea...did I say that out loud?
2005-05-22 15:26:32
189.   Bob Timmermann
Izturis is slightly behind Beltre's home run pace from last year.

He was ahead of it for the first six games!

2005-05-22 15:26:33
190.   Albert in Hong Kong
Now that is a thought for the 2004 Beltre.
2005-05-22 15:26:46
191.   alex 7
I hear the Inland Empire's 3B can hit a curveball.
2005-05-22 15:27:30
192.   Bob Timmermann
Oscar Robles is 2 for 2.

I just checked my cat.

She is not sleeping with a dog.

2005-05-22 15:27:43
193.   Albert in Hong Kong
Gagne: (@#&$@#& WHEN AM I GOING TO GET A SAVE??
2005-05-22 15:28:41
194.   Bob Timmermann
Rivera, McPherson, Cabrera.....
2005-05-22 15:29:37
195.   Marty
Can Gagne create his own save by giving up a couple HRs then getting the side out?
2005-05-22 15:29:41
196.   Jim Hitchcock
Close, Albert...but Gagne would have said it with a Canadian inflection.
2005-05-22 15:30:09
197.   GoBears
192: Nice work, Bob. Quality.

The offense works better when (1) Drew gets a couple RBIs and (2) they get 2 HR and 6-7 hits from the 6-7-8 spots. Duh.

2005-05-22 15:30:43
198.   GoBears
195: Nope. He could create one for another pitcher that way, tho.
2005-05-22 15:30:47
199.   Langhorne
The thing about Izturis is that he has improved offensively every year.
2005-05-22 15:31:01
200.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I checked the line is "dogs and cats living together."
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-22 15:34:21
201.   Jim Hitchcock
Look out, SF...we're comin' to get ya.
2005-05-22 15:35:16
202.   Bob Timmermann

I'm looking forward to a Penny-Reuter matchup Thursday.

2005-05-22 15:35:48
203.   GoBears
Wow, we all needed that. A 4th straight loss might have killed off a few of us.

Quick game - less than 2:30, I think.

2005-05-22 15:35:51
204.   Albert in Hong Kong
Hopefully, something good like a sweep in NorCal will get the team back on track.
2005-05-22 15:36:25
205.   fanerman91
We... won?

How is that... possible?

2005-05-22 15:37:30
206.   Linkmeister
I'm worried about Gagne; he let two balls get into play. ;)
2005-05-22 15:41:49
207.   GoBears
Cabrera's AB was interesting. Either Ball 1 or Ball 2 was a 93 MPH fastball up and away, and he laid off. The very next pitch was in exactly the same location, and also 93, and he swung and missed. Makes me think that Gagne, in addition to having great stuff, must be hard to pick up, because batters really seem to be guessing a lot of the time.
2005-05-22 15:54:18
208.   Vishal
he's still not throwing any harder than 93, however. :/
2005-05-22 15:56:25
209.   GoBears
I just followed Jon's Katie Brownell link at the top. Wow! Not only did she pitch a perfect game, but she struck out every batter she faced! Talk about woman against boys... And she's hitting .714! Babe (Didrickson) Ruth reincarnated.
2005-05-22 16:00:30
210.   Marty
Vishal, I'm a little concerned about Gane's velocity too. Hopefully, it's a badly adjusted radar gun. If I remember right, it was clocking people at 99 mph in April. So maybe they compensated too much.
2005-05-22 16:22:59
211.   Langhorne
I'm slightly optimistic about our pitching. Penny and Lowe are good enough and Penny, at least, will get better. If Odalis can come back healthy that will help. I'd rather have someone besides Dessens but I'd rather have Dessens than Erickson. I do like Erickson in the pen along with Alvarez, Gio, Duaner, Yhency, Gagne and maybe Wunsch if you want another lefty. But seeing as how the Dodgers have averaged a little over 2 runs a game in thier loses and over 7 in their wins I still think the onus for winning falls on the offense. Which means that Drew and Kent have to hit.
2005-05-22 16:42:05
212.   dzzrtRatt
There's a vintage Tracy quote in today's Gurnick notes. I gather from the way he restates the reporters' questions that he thinks anyone who questions his judgement is out of his mind. This is about moving Drew up to second in the lineup. Enjoy...
"I just feel like trying different things," said Tracy. "Am I totally certain it's going to work and be the key that unlocks the safe to get the guy going? I'm not that smart to know that...."
2005-05-22 16:51:18
213.   Linkmeister
dzzrtRatt, those are Rumsfeldian remarks. "The known unknowns," and all that.
2005-05-22 17:03:30
214.   Howard Fox
good game good as they have looked in a month...

I really like Antonio Perez...looks like a real good ballplayer, and for the first time this season, I feel comfortable with our 3rd baseman...if he is for real, it will help alot this season

and the Pads seem to be coming back to earth..losing 2 in a row to the Mariners...maybe all isn't lost yet, after all...

2005-05-22 17:04:27
215.   Howard Fox
and Lowe is the opposite of Erickson...over 80% of his pitches were
2005-05-22 17:09:10
216.   dzzrtRatt
RE: 213

Ha! Maybe Jim Tracy's comments can be turned into a book of poetry, like Rumsfeld's were. ("Pieces of Intelligence : The Existential Poetry of Donald H. Rumsfeld")

As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

2005-05-22 17:15:39
217.   Louis in SF
Glad to see a win and also happy that Drew was moved,batting him second isn't half bad although I still think Bradley batting 3rd would be better and Drew batting 5th. ANything to get him going is worth it.

The pitching is still the problem and with Perez going on the DL, for what and how long i am not sure and Weaver complaining it strikes me that a fresh arm is needed and Pat Mahomes wouldn't be terrible. Unfortuantely I begining to think that Jackson is about shot he gave up at least 5 earned runs last night and was also ejected. While not knowing what he is throwing, any confidence he once had seems to be lost. I sure would like to see him get a shot again.

2005-05-22 19:25:15
218.   dzzrtRatt
Donno if anyone but me is watching the Giants v. A's on ESPN,, the A's are terrible. Nothing whatsoever like the crisp team that once was a contender.

This points out the unfairness of the interleague schedule. We get home and home against the Angels, which, though injured, are probably the second or third strongest LA team, while the Giants get to make merry with the A's, who can't seem to catch or the ball.

2005-05-22 20:30:12
219.   Fearing Blue
#214: Agreed. Perez has looked very comfortable at 3B. Royster, the AAA manager, thought Perez would be better defensively at 3B than either SS or 2B. He seems to have good range and plays defense aggressively. Oh yeah, and he can hit. As Steve said on FJT, if anyone besides Saenz or Perez starts at 3B, we need to go after Tracy with torches.
2005-05-22 22:46:59
220.   Louis in SF
Any comments on the Tim Brown piece in today's LA Times trying to get Lowell from Florida or going after another pitcher.

Jon, Depo and Billy Beane got together for lunch in your old stomping grounds in Palo Alto to watch college baseball and then to hang out. Beane was interviewed on KNBR. My question is was more discussed. Zito is sorta struggling and the A's are also in need of another lefty in the bullpen. If the A's continue to go south, is he the answer. You have been absolutely correct that the real culprit in the current Dodger slide is not been the hitting it has been consistant pitching. I do not know if Zito can be the answer and wonder how much we would have to give up. I just think that if we wait too long given the rotation turmoil, it maybe too difficult.

2005-05-23 01:11:11
221.   bigcpa
Zito will fit right in to this rotation with his 5.5 K/9. If DePo was looking to pilfer a starter the Cubs seem like the place to start. Maybe Zambrano will refuse to run out a pop-up one of these days.
2005-05-23 01:34:49
222.   Louis in SF
I don't see why the Cubs would trade Zambrano given the starting rotation mess of injuries that is the Cubs. I just keep on wondering what you could get out of Jackson, and if it is only a littlemight he then be worth something in trade. Being both on the 40 man roster and stinking it up in Las Vegas is doing nothing, especially if he is/was our top pitching prospect.
2005-05-23 01:40:31
223.   bigcpa
I think Zito will be a D'Back in July or sooner. Quentin and Jackson are taking and raking in Tucson. Beane must be salivating.
2005-05-23 07:36:00
224.   Fearing Blue
#220: Please don't even suggest Zito. As big said, Zito would fit right in, but not in a good way. He's essentially another league-average pitcher with an above-average reputation.

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