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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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May 24 Open Chat: 3-4, Not 1-2
2005-05-24 15:04
by Jon Weisman
Comments (242)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-24 15:09:54
1.   Borchard504
- Armageddon here in Cincinnati. Its only May and they're (reds) imploding. I've got my sights set on the Dodger roadtrip to Chicago in June, to see them play the White Sox.
2005-05-24 15:22:52
2.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

May 24, 1884

Before a crowd of a bunch of people who were likely standing around the field with a few people on wooden bleachers at a place called Orioles Park, the Brooklyn Atlantics, playing in their first major league season, beat the Baltimore Orioles, 4-3. The American Association had expanded to 12 teams in 1884 in its third year of existence and the new Brooklyn squad improved its record to 7-9, 6 games behind the first place New York Metropolitans and in eighth place.

Brooklyn had won the championship in 1883 while playing in the minor league Interstate League. But the first year of big league ball wouldn't be a successful one as the team finished 40-64 and in ninth place in a league that would eventually have 13 teams. The Washington Nationals lasted 63 games before folding and being replaced by a team from Richmond, Virginia for the rest of the season. The Metropolitans won the AA by 6 ½ games with a 75-32 record.

For the era, this game was pretty well played. There were only three errors by each team and just one passed ball. Not bad for a time when gloves were not yet in vogue. Brooklyn trailed 3-1 before scoring 3 runs in the seventh to get the win.

If we all stepped in to Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine, this game would be hard to recognize for most of us. We'd likely be surprised by the fact that Brooklyn batted its starting pitcher, 19-year old Adonis Terry, in the cleanup spot. Terry started 55 of Brooklyn's 113 games on the season and finished 54 of them (only fifth best in the league, the leader had 72). He had a record of 19-35 and threw 476 innings. Brooklyn's other starting pitcher, Sam Kimber, finished 18-20. Brooklyn's second baseman, Bill Greenwood, threw left-handed.

The newspaper coverage of baseball was spotty then. The headline in the New York Times just read "Baltimores Beaten at Home". The Washington Post coverage of the game appeared underneath a game about a group of Naval Academy midshipmen playing a local athletic club. But somewhere out in the Utah Territory, a guy named Steve, posted a piece of paper up on a pole that read "Fire George Taylor". This groundswell of support from a distant land must have had an effect on Brooklyn's ownership as Taylor never managed in the major leagues again. (Taylor was actually a newspaper editor and part owner of the club.) In January 1884, Taylor and Henry Chadwick each picked a team of 10 players to play an exhibition game of baseball to be played on ice with the players wearing skates. Chadwick's players won thanks to a 27-run sixth inning, 41-12.

"Did I think my pitcher had difficulty adapting to the ice? Maybe. Should I have changed pitchers earlier? I don't know. I just wanted my pitcher to be in a position to succeed. But when you're playing on ice, balls just get through to the outfield much faster. It's tough when you don't have a defense that can make those plays. But there's no defense for a ball that slides 300 feet on a sheet of ice," Taylor said after that game.

The 1884 Brooklyn team was not an offensive force. The team batted .225 and the highest batting average of any regular was right fielder Jack Cassidy's .252. But he had an OBP of .286! The league leader in OBP that year was at .376.

The American Association was one of three major leagues in baseball in 1884. In addition to the National League and the American Association, a variety of teams played under the banner of the Union Association that season.

Thanks to the New York Times, Washington Post, and Retrosheet

(OK, I may have fictionalized part of this a wee bit.)

2005-05-24 15:42:25
3.   Jim Hitchcock
Bob, that was truly wonderful. Thank you.

As a huge fan of of the bass player for Hot Tuna and Jefferson Airplane, I'd always wondered about Jack Cassidy's earlier career.

2005-05-24 15:46:40
4.   Xeifrank
Over/Under on Jeff Weaver tonight is 5 2/3 innings pitched.

Place your virtual bets.



2005-05-24 15:54:30
5.   Bob Timmermann
Can I bet the exact number?
2005-05-24 15:57:08
6.   Mush
Over - 7 1/3.
2005-05-24 16:00:26
7.   Improbable88
Weaver goes a full 7. Ghame and Game Overs in the 8th and 9th. We win by 4 runs. Still no save for Gagne. Schmidt is a disaster. Wishful thinking reigns undisputedly.
2005-05-24 16:03:56
8.   JSN
2005-05-24 16:05:30
9.   Jim Hitchcock
Over, on account of Steve taking the under.
2005-05-24 16:08:01
10.   scareduck
Under. Weaver goes 4 2/3, leaving the game after Mike Matheny hits a bases-clearing double to make the score Giants 7, Dodgers 1. After the game, Tracy mumbles something about Weaver not being injured. Nobody believes him.

Outside the SBC Park visitors' locker room, the wolves circle and bay.

2005-05-24 16:16:36
11.   Marty
I'll say he goes exactly 5 2/3
2005-05-24 16:17:54
12.   Jim Hitchcock
Now I know Robb is kidding. No self-respecting wolf would bay...
2005-05-24 16:18:28
13.   Icaros
Over. Weaver throws a 50-pitch complete game shutout, then makes the Golden Gate Bridge disappear...forever.
2005-05-24 16:30:28
14.   Steve
How can you take the under when he could give away the Empire State Building and Tracy would leave him in the game?

But as Jim correctly predicted, I'll take the under anyway.

2005-05-24 16:37:02
15.   Fearing Blue
I posted this over at FJT, and thought people here might have some ideas as to why. The Dodgers defense this season has performed significantly worse than last season. The 2004 Dodgers' DER was .715, and the best in the majors. This year, the Dodgers defense is turning balls in play into outs at a .691 clip, which is 19th ( The difference comes out to about 2 hits every 3 games.

One difference is that BABIP is typically higher for groundball pitchers and we've got a lot of them this year. Anyone know where to find team G/F numbers to see how big the discrepancy is?

2005-05-24 16:38:18
16.   Marty
Check out the gameday post over at McCovey Chronicles. It's a good description of the angst he feels when the Dodgers come to S.F. I used to feel that way with the old Mays-McCovey-Jim Ray Hart Giants, but not this year's version.
So, having said that, they'll probably beat our brains in.
2005-05-24 16:38:56
17.   Fearing Blue
I'm with Icaros. I went so far as to start Weaver for my fantasy team.
2005-05-24 16:41:59
18.   Icaros
I figure a 50-pitch complete game isn't as crazy as it sounds since Weaver has apparently lost the ability to strike hitters out.
2005-05-24 17:01:12
19.   Blue Crew
I think Weaver will go six.

If Michael Tucker gets in there tonight and Weaver is pitching, it could be interesting. For some reason that I cannot remember, these two don't seem to like each other.


2005-05-24 17:06:57
20.   Steve
2 hits every three games? When our pitchers are giving up 15 a game? Explain "significant."
2005-05-24 17:07:38
21.   Jim Hitchcock
Marty, I was planning on waiting till game time to mosey on over to McCovey Chronicles...but maybe I'll do it now.
2005-05-24 17:15:47
22.   yofan
Going to the game tonight... in my Chin-Feng Chen (52) jersey and LA cap. I hope we sweep the Giants this week...
2005-05-24 17:22:38
23.   dzzrtRatt
One of the commenters on McCovey Chronicles has this on-target observation:

"Giants-Dodgers is one of the oldest - and certainly the best - baseball rivalry. Red Sox-Yankees has had its moments, but they didn't share a city or a state for 50 years. That was the beauty of the Giants and Dodgers simultaneous move to the West Coast -they moved to cities that were already rivals."

Then there's this surreal invective, the kind of thing the might come out if Saddam Hussein mated with Paul Lynde:

"Tommy Lasorda is a useless fat old man who's the spawn of satan. Steve Garvey is/was and always will be a pretty boy.
Eric Gagne is... Canadian."

2005-05-24 17:23:01
24.   Colorado Blue
I'm over... 6 2/3 for Weavs.


RE #2: (OK, I may have fictionalized part of this a wee bit.)

Would that be the part about the ice game?

2005-05-24 17:41:51
25.   Bob Timmermann
It looks like Buddy Carlyle has Odalis Perez's spot. Oh boy!

As for the fictionalized parts of #2, the baseball game on ice did actually happen. There were 10 players on a side and the extra guy was labeled as "right short".

2005-05-24 17:43:59
26.   Eric Enders
Historically speaking, Dodgers-Giants is a MUCH better rivalry than Yankees-Red Sox; it's not even close. The Dodgers and Giants have been each other's biggest rival for 122 years, and for the majority of that time both teams were good. The Yankees and Red Sox have been playing each other for 103 years, and for most of that time it's been one-sided (Red Sox were much better 1901-1918, Yankees much better 1920-65). Only since the 1970s has the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry developed the intensity that the Dodger-Giant rivalry has had for more than 100 years.
2005-05-24 17:49:30
27.   Fearing Blue
#20: Oops. I implicitly made a bad assumption. It would come out to 2 hits every 3 games if all other things were equal (Ks, BBs, HRs). But, since we're striking out fewer and walking fewer there are more balls in play. Thus, the reduced defensive percentage, combined with the increased offensive opportunities is leading to about 1 extra hit per nine.

Here are the team pitching ratios from 2004 and 2005:

2004: 6.60 K/9; 3.17 BB/9; 1.10 HR/9; 8.58 H/9
2005: 6.01 K/9; 2.83 BB/9; 1.11 HR/9; 9.61 H/9

Overall, they're not as different as I expected.

2005-05-24 17:54:11
28.   Fearing Blue
Lineups already posted on


Izturis (SS)
Drew (RF)
Choi (1B)
Kent (2B)
Bradley (CF)
Ledee (LF)
Phillips (C)
Perez (3B)
Weaver (P)


Ellison (CF)
Vizquel (SS)
Snow (1B)
Alou (RF)
Durham (2B)
Feliz (LF)
Alfonzo (3B)
Matheny (C)
Schmidt (P)

That's not an awe-inspiring lineup the Giants are trotting out there.

2005-05-24 18:03:26
29.   Bob Timmermann
Alfonzo, after sporting a 996 OPS in April has an OPS of 555 in May.
2005-05-24 18:05:59
30.   dzzrtRatt
It's strange to say about a Dodger-Giant series, but this seems like a much-needed break in their schedule. It'll be nice to face a mediocre team for a change. LA did not rise to the occasion against St. Louis, Florida, the Angels, Braves and Nats, but those are some of the best teams baseball has to offer.

If we can't beat THIS team, however, then I'll worry.

2005-05-24 18:08:05
31.   Blue Crew
That was my first thought too. Nothing to really fear.

I hope Kent goes off this series. Obviously I hope he always goes off, but to do it to his old team would be great.


2005-05-24 18:12:08
32.   LetsGoDodgers
RE: #28

Did you look at the Angel line-ups from the weekend? Not much better and they took 2 of 3.

2005-05-24 18:20:04
33.   Bob Timmermann
Saturday the Angels started an outfield of Davanon, Finley, and Rivera.
They batted Erstad third.

And they still won.

If the Dodgers have a stretch where 9 of 11 guys strike out against Schmidt, it will be a lonnnngggg night.

2005-05-24 18:33:35
34.   overkill94
Got tonight's game as part of a parlay, dodgers win and over 8 runs, banking on Schmidt's shoulder still not being 100%.
2005-05-24 18:35:08
35.   Sam DC
But there's no defense for a ball that slides 300 feet on a sheet of ice.


Thanks, Bob.

2005-05-24 18:37:04
36.   bluechip
I'm with Colorado Blue -- Weaver gives us a solid 6 2/3 tonight. Going further, Dodgers hang on for 5-4 win. Kent goes 3 for 4 and scores game winning run on Ledee sac fly in 8th. Charley and Rick, are you getting this down?
2005-05-24 18:44:57
37.   Bob Timmermann
I couldn't figure out who to root for in the Arizona-San Diego game tonight until I saw the starting pitchers.

Russ Ortiz gave up a leadoff triple to Dave Roberts and Geoff Blum drove him home with a productive out!

2005-05-24 18:46:27
38.   Sam DC
Don't know if he's been reading Dodger Thoughts, but in Cincinnati, with the Nationals down 3-2, going into the bottom of the eighth, Robinson just brought in his closer Chad Cordero, presumably on the "if we don't hold em here and catch em in the top of the ninth, there'll be no bottom of the ninth to pitch theory." Starter L. Hernandez had thrown 120 plus pitches, so the change was not surprising, but somewhat unconventional closer use there. And the team is not surrounded by off days or anything, instead they're in the middle of a long road trip, although I've got no idea if Cordero has pitched much lately. Not last night, when they lost 5-2.
2005-05-24 18:53:30
39.   Bob Timmermann
3-0 Padres in the top of the first after Ramon Hernandez doubled in two.
2005-05-24 19:03:44
40.   Sam DC
And Cordero held it at 3-2, Nationals have tied it up in the Ninth after Robinson stunned again by pinch hitting Carlos Baerga for starting SS Cristian Guzman, yielding a 2 out RBI single. Nats bench pretty thin for the bottom of the ninth and beyond . . .
2005-05-24 19:09:39
41.   franklin
Whats the over/under on the number of pitches until Weaver chips a tooth on that bling around his neck?
2005-05-24 19:13:09
42.   chumsferd
weaver goes 7.
ghame almost over.
game over.

Choi goes yard.

2005-05-24 19:15:16
43.   Marty
I wonder if Frisco has Schmidt on a pitch count.
2005-05-24 19:16:14
44.   franklin
cesar is a machine.
2005-05-24 19:17:15
45.   Marty
That's the first I've heard about a wrist problem for J.D.
2005-05-24 19:19:52
46.   Steve
Anyone who thinks that batting lineups don't matter are being sorely tested in Orange County, where Orlando Cabrera is hitting third tonight.
2005-05-24 19:20:02
47.   Bob Timmermann
Alou's probably lets Schmidt pitches until he drops dead on the mound. That's been his M.O.
2005-05-24 19:25:21
48.   Steve
Aggressive baseball pays off again.
2005-05-24 19:28:02
49.   Bob Timmermann
So, good Jeff or evil Jeff in this outing against the Giants. Both twins have faced the Giants this year.
2005-05-24 19:32:38
50.   Marty
47. It's interesting. I seem to remember that Alou was the genius manager that everyone, at least in the media, wanted the Dodgers to hire when they ended up with Davey Johnson. I'm thinking it really was a positive that we didn't get Alou.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-24 19:33:07
51.   Bob Timmermann
Double digit Ks for Schmidt tonight?
2005-05-24 19:35:58
52.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey! Penny and I share birthdays! That and a nickle...
2005-05-24 19:36:56
53.   Marty
Jim doesn't mention that he also shares birthdays with Grabowski!
2005-05-24 19:39:49
54.   Bob Timmermann
Unproductive out! The Dodgers are now 0 for 2 in Olney Opportunities.
2005-05-24 19:39:52
55.   Jim Hitchcock
Why would I, even if I knew?
2005-05-24 19:42:16
56.   Marty
Scully mentioned it was Penny's and Grab's birthday, so I assumed you were ignoring one :-)
2005-05-24 19:43:30
57.   Jim Hitchcock
Seriously, I must have blocked that out.
2005-05-24 19:43:38
58.   Steve
Brad Lidge blows this week's inning pitched. Steve Phillips recommends bringing him only every other week, lest his arm blow out.

Gotta like how many pitches Schmidt is having to throw.

2005-05-24 19:44:09
59.   Marty
Nice AB Jason. Let's burn Schmidt out as soon as possible.
2005-05-24 19:45:40
60.   Jim Hitchcock
And the Glenn Hoffman 3rd Base coaching award goes to....Glenn Hoffman.
2005-05-24 19:46:10
61.   Steve
Aggressive baserunning pays off again.
2005-05-24 19:47:27
62.   Steve
Bob neglected to mention that the penalty for bad third-base coaching in 1884 in the Utah Territories was hanging.
2005-05-24 19:47:51
63.   Bob Timmermann
Other former Dodgers born today:
Carlos Hernandez
Ellie Rodriguez
2005-05-24 19:50:18
64.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros are now 2-21 on the road this season
2005-05-24 19:51:55
65.   Steve
Where's Phil Garner's Chowder and Marching Society now?
2005-05-24 19:56:03
66.   chumsferd
44 pitches in 2 innings for Schmidt.
2005-05-24 19:57:27
67.   Bob Timmermann
Remind not to mock Edgardo Alfonzo again.
2005-05-24 19:58:28
68.   Ben P
On the play in the last inning, Hoffman gets the blame for sending Bradley home, but Bradley really dogged it at the end. He made no attempt to slide or knock the catcher over. He didn't even try to touch the plate. Even if you're probably going to be out, you have to try to make a play there. I'm betting that will be column fodder tomorrow.
2005-05-24 20:01:37
69.   Johnson
#68 Ben P

I don't know. Looked to me like he was out by about 40 feet. Rather than go in hard and potentially hurt himself, I think he should have stopped dead. If he gets himself in a rundown, Perez can go to second.

All of a sudden, Schmidt is mowing us down.

2005-05-24 20:05:24
70.   Fearing Blue
2005-05-24 20:06:21
71.   Johnson
Correction: all of a sudden, Schmidt is lighting us up.
2005-05-24 20:06:22
72.   The Anc
Nice catch by the fan in left
2005-05-24 20:06:36
73.   Marty
It IS Grabowski's birthday, so the principle would show up early...
2005-05-24 20:06:45
74.   A E LUTHER
Chiming in:

As if it matters, I benched Weaver tonight on my fantasy team.

His arm is sore, if he keeps this up he's headed for the DL...

2005-05-24 20:08:51
75.   Doug N
im glad to see that drew has taken the place of green, and now weaver is filling in for ishii. what's plaschke compaining about? this is still the 2003 dodgers.
2005-05-24 20:10:21
76.   mikethinksblue
phillips seemed surprised he threw someone out
2005-05-24 20:10:26
77.   Johnson
Great throw by Phillips to nab Vizquel. And a good thing, too.
2005-05-24 20:11:42
78.   A E LUTHER

My immediate reaction on Bradley's non slide/take out was, at least he didn't pull a Vlad Guerrero, and it was early in the game. He was out by 40 feet, it was not bang-bang, and on that kind of play, Bradley has got to be thinking to take out the catcher before he even rounds third. BTW, at the major league level, at least on the h'lights I see less and less catcher's being taken out on that kind of play. Probably has something to do with contract$$$$$$

2005-05-24 20:11:50
79.   LAT
Ortiz gives up HR to Nevin.
2005-05-24 20:14:37
80.   GoBears
The thing about Schmidt's Ks so far is that 5 of the 6 have been against lefties (Choi and Drew twice each, Cesar, and Kent), and all of them have been swinging, on balls out of the zone. He's fooling them as much as he's overpowering them. On at least a couple of the strikeouts, NONE of the pitches was in the zone. Dodgers just need to hold on until it's bullpen time.
2005-05-24 20:14:47
81.   Fearing Blue
FSN just clocked Weaver at 89 mph on a fastball. That's normal Weaver speed, whereas last week he was at 86 mph. Still, this is bad Weaver. He hasn't struck anyone out yet, and we're lucky to still be in this one.
2005-05-24 20:15:58
82.   A E LUTHER
Aflac...Marichal ended his career with the Dodgers.

My source, I just read it in Tommy Davis' "tell-all" "Tales From the Dodger Dugout".

2005-05-24 20:18:11
83.   Jim Hitchcock
Good thing Monday's not announcing...he would have turned that flub into a "speaking of Mike Schmidt" moment.
2005-05-24 20:19:41
84.   mikethinksblue
am I the only one still trying to figure out the title of this post?
2005-05-24 20:20:05
85.   Johnson
#82 Luther

The Tommy Davis book isn't as good as "Bad Stuff 'Bout the Mets" by Chico Escuela: "Ed Kranepool: Borrow Chico's soap and NEVER GIVE IT BACK."

2005-05-24 20:22:41
86.   Johnson
Great. Now the Giants' announcers are going off on how great of a closer Danny Graves is and how there are plenty of teams who will want to pick him up. Sounds like they've heard something and are trying to loosen up the fans. Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease.
2005-05-24 20:25:40
87.   regfairfield
Could Graves be that much worse than who ever is closing. Brower, Herges?

Is this the same radar gun that was clocking Odalis at 96 earlier this year? If so, this is still definately bad Weaver.

2005-05-24 20:28:03
88.   Fearing Blue
Well, that's more like the bad Weaver we've all come to know.
2005-05-24 20:28:14
89.   franklin
Matheny's Crash Davis strategy goes awry
2005-05-24 20:28:19
90.   mikethinksblue
Put one in the dump truck
2005-05-24 20:28:22
91.   Johnson
Actually, it doesn't really look as if the Giants need a closer. Ugh.
2005-05-24 20:28:48
92.   franklin
and instead homers... good night
2005-05-24 20:29:43
93.   capdodger
Oh Boy. Houlton. So even if the Dodgers do score some runs, it won't matter, because he'll give them right back.
2005-05-24 20:30:21
For the eternal optimist, the reality of our horrible starting pitching sets in.
2005-05-24 20:32:30
95.   scareduck
10: Well, shite. Looks like my projected 4.2 IP for Weaver fails, but the bases-clearing double turns into a three-run homer. Still time for him to get pulled after two more earned runs, though.
2005-05-24 20:32:45
96.   GoBears
The radar gun is probably off. Vinnie keeps citing Schmidt at 94, but the Fox gun has him at 98.

HR to Schmidt
HR to Matheny
double Grabowski on his birthday.

2005-05-24 20:33:15
97.   Fearing Blue
Did I mention that I like Perez?
2005-05-24 20:33:23
98.   Marty
Man, I leave for a little while to grill up some chicken and it's 5-1!
2005-05-24 20:33:25
99.   dzzrtRatt
I am monitoring the game on Gameday. Somebody tell me what Weaver did when he gave up the homer to Mike Matheny on the next pitch after a failed bunt. Did he stare off in the direction of the ball? Did he make a show of saying "F"? Did his mouth purse like he was about to cry? I'm becoming a connisseur of his idiotic gestures.
2005-05-24 20:34:29
100.   A E LUTHER

I may need to pick that one up. (the really bad 60's Met's stories have got to be great)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-24 20:34:56
101.   jeongers
Weaver either sucks this bad or he's hurt. Either way, he shouldn't be pitching. The problem, though, is we're running out of pitchers. This is depressing.
2005-05-24 20:34:58
102.   Fearing Blue
Werth is 3 for 3 with another HR so far tonight for Las Vegas.
2005-05-24 20:36:25
103.   regfairfield
Schmidt running out of gas means nothing but good things.
2005-05-24 20:37:46
104.   regfairfield
Cesar also better be bunting on his own.
2005-05-24 20:38:04
105.   joekings
why oh why are we sacrificing with our hottest hitter down by 4????
2005-05-24 20:38:09
106.   Johnson
#100 Luther

Actually, don't try looking too hard for it - it was from an old Saturday Night Live sketch with Bill Murray interviewing Garret Morris as the veteran Dominican SS "Chico Escuela" who was trying to get back to/stay in the big leagues and had written a nasty tell-all. :-)

2005-05-24 20:38:12
107.   Icaros
Don't like the bunt down 5-1, but maybe that's just me and Steve.
2005-05-24 20:38:32
108.   Fearing Blue
Tracy, thanks for giving up an out with our most consistent hitter when we're down by 4.
2005-05-24 20:38:51
109.   Jim Hitchcock
Drew comes threw(sic)!
2005-05-24 20:38:54
110.   jeongers
Did we just sacrifice down by four runs?
2005-05-24 20:38:58
111.   regfairfield
Expected runs went from 1.5 this inning to 1.4
2005-05-24 20:39:28
112.   A E LUTHER
So what's wrong with Weaver?

1. Sore arm-
2. Lack of concentration-
3. ???
4. All of the above?

2005-05-24 20:40:25
113.   regfairfield
It doesn't help that we did that when it looks like Schmidt has nothing left.
2005-05-24 20:40:43
114.   Jim Hitchcock
5. Hi grade sinsemilla available in NoCal.
2005-05-24 20:41:00
115.   Fearing Blue
#107: I'm also a huge fan of sacrificing against a guy who can't throw strikes.
2005-05-24 20:41:22
116.   Johnson
Now, I know that it's a small sample size, but with Perez hitting .467 and looking like he's swinging the bat nicely, should he really be hitting in the 8 hole?

Go Choi!

2005-05-24 20:42:10
117.   Bob Timmermann
Woo hoo! Clutch balk!
2005-05-24 20:42:16
118.   Johnson
Wow. How often do you see the balk?
2005-05-24 20:43:18
119.   willhite
Definitely something wrong with Weaver's arm. His head ain't great either but this is definitely an arm problem.

No matter how bad our pitching is, or gets, the only team with a chance to beat us this year is SD

2005-05-24 20:43:18
120.   regfairfield
Is the sacrifice completely worthless now?
2005-05-24 20:44:42
121.   A E LUTHER
Re: Sacrifice. Tracy has got to be thinking that it's still early and if we can get two this inning then were only down by two, with Schmidt struggling off the DL, and a week 'pen for the Gnats...

....just a hunch

2005-05-24 20:44:42
122.   Bob Timmermann
In 1988 they called balks a lot. Relatively speaking.

But they were being very picky on how long pitchers had to stay set.

But Schmidt just screwed up there and the Dodgers essentially got 2 gift runs.

2005-05-24 20:46:34
123.   Bob Timmermann
Padres 4, DBacks 3 as Arizona rallies in the 6th. Rudy Seanez in to replace Eaton.
2005-05-24 20:47:17
124.   KAYVMON
8 is a good spot for Perez. Speed leverages better in that spot.
2005-05-24 20:47:21
125.   joekings
At least Drew can still catch.
2005-05-24 20:47:37
126.   Jim Hitchcock
Boy, that ball sailed.
2005-05-24 20:48:35
127.   Bob Timmermann
DBacks with the bases loaded in the 6th with 2 outs and Green at the plate.
2005-05-24 20:48:53
128.   Icaros
I thought Houlton only pitches when things are hopeless. Is down two runs hopeless now?

(Two near HRs just hit as I type.)

2005-05-24 20:48:53
129.   jeongers
Yeah, I remember that year when tons of balks were being called. Discussions were usually accompanied by footage of Jim Palmer bouncing into his windup without ever coming set.
2005-05-24 20:49:12
130.   joekings
The fact those two balls were outs isn't filling me with much confidence.
2005-05-24 20:49:33
131.   A E LUTHER
126: So did that one...
2005-05-24 20:49:42
132.   Fearing Blue
It's a good thing they didn't hit the ball hard against Houlton.
2005-05-24 20:50:48
133.   Bob Timmermann
Green Ks on 3 pitches to end the 6th.

San Diego 4, Arizona 3. Shawn has stranded seven runners through six innings.

2005-05-24 20:50:48
134.   Johnson
Looks like Fassero's coming in. I will welcome the Giants' bullpen any day. With or without Graves. Let's see if 5-6-7 can get something going.
2005-05-24 20:51:52
135.   Jim Hitchcock
Vin Scully on ergot of rye!
2005-05-24 20:52:26
136.   joekings
Am I the only one hearing an echo on the FSN broadcast?
2005-05-24 20:52:42
137.   mikethinksblue
anyone else getting Vin on surround sound?
2005-05-24 20:53:05
138.   alex 7
If we don't score 2 runs this inning off Jeff freaking Fassero, I'm hitting up the next major league tryout I hear about.
2005-05-24 20:53:39
139.   Jim Hitchcock
That's what you get for eating the mold in the refrigerator, joekings.
2005-05-24 20:54:18
140.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers weren't successful against Fassero earlier in the year. He wasn't that bad as a starter.
2005-05-24 20:55:23
141.   capdodger
Yeah... That was weird. It's like they lost the stereo sync.
2005-05-24 20:56:46
142.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have now not gotten a hit off of Fassero in the 4 1/3 innings they've faced him.

The only team that hit him hard this year was Houston.

2005-05-24 20:56:51
143.   Fearing Blue
Does anyone know what's up with Guzman in Jacksonville? He hasn't started the last two games, and was pulled in the 9th for a pinch hitter the game before those.
2005-05-24 21:00:02
144.   Fearing Blue
Houlton has trouble keeping the ball down. A lot of the pitches he throws are belt high or above.
2005-05-24 21:00:31
145.   alex 7
Jeff's quite the amazing 42 year old $500,000 reliever.
2005-05-24 21:03:42
146.   Bob Timmermann
It won't go down as a caught stealing, but I think Phillips will take it.
2005-05-24 21:04:29
147.   alex 7
We have quite a few 3B prospects so I wouldn't be surprised if Guzman splits time with another one. Is Aybar at Jacksonville or elsewhere?
2005-05-24 21:05:59
148.   Sam DC
Just back from rescuing my dead car. Don't really have the heart to report on the end of the Nationals game, but I feel I should close the loop. Shortish version, in the bottom of the fourteenth, virtually every pitch Nationals' reliever Luis Ayala (pitching his third inning) threw got laced deep into the outfield. One was caught at the very top of the wall by Brad Wilkerson. Others dropped in for a single and a double. Next better was the pitcher, Kessler or something close that, just called up a few days ago. Rather than bring in Hector Carrasco or Gigantor, both available, Robinson leaves Ayala and his fumes on the mound, and the rookie pitcher slaps a game winning single into center.
2005-05-24 21:07:25
149.   Bob Timmermann
Linebrink sets the DBacks down in order in the 7th. 4-3 San Diego going to the 8th.
2005-05-24 21:07:47
150.   Fearing Blue
#147: Aybar's at AAA and splits time between 2B and 3B. Guzman is at AA and splits time between SS and 3B. LaRoche is at high-A and plays 3B exclusively. DeWitt is in A and plays 3B exclusively.

I don't think a time-share is the issue as Sprout and Rohan are currently playing 3B and SS, and they're not prospects.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-24 21:07:49
151.   Fearing Blue
#147: Aybar's at AAA and splits time between 2B and 3B. Guzman is at AA and splits time between SS and 3B. LaRoche is at high-A and plays 3B exclusively. DeWitt is in A and plays 3B exclusively.

I don't think a time-share is the issue as Sprout and Rohan are currently playing 3B and SS, and they're not prospects.

2005-05-24 21:08:40
152.   Fearing Blue
Got trigger happy with the double-post again. Sigh. Repko sure is scrappy.
2005-05-24 21:10:25
153.   adg
The odds of seeing Olmedo Saenz THIS inning are 80/20 at the moment (with Drew up). 80% Olmedo, that is.
2005-05-24 21:10:29
154.   capdodger
Now would be a good time for Drew to break out and crush one.
2005-05-24 21:11:08
155.   adg
IF Drew gets on, I forgot to include that BIG if in my calculations. (sigh)
2005-05-24 21:11:17
156.   Bob Timmermann
Pinch hit homer from Fick puts San Diego up 5-3.
2005-05-24 21:11:44
157.   joekings
when did shawn green sneak back onto the dodgers?
2005-05-24 21:12:17
158.   alex 7
dang it, I wanted to see Choi get his hacks in against a slow lefty.
2005-05-24 21:12:31
159.   adg
2 for 1 with Drew?
2005-05-24 21:12:54
160.   mikethinksblue
is this the Paris Hilton ad I've heard so much about?
2005-05-24 21:13:18
161.   Bob Timmermann
Green is 1 for 4 tonight with 2 Ks and 7 runners LOB.

Drew has more Ks, but fewer LOB.

2005-05-24 21:13:46
162.   Jim Hitchcock
Fick? Can I but a vowel?
2005-05-24 21:13:59
163.   Jim Hitchcock
Fick? Can I buy a vowel?
2005-05-24 21:14:25
164.   Jim Hitchcock
Aw, shucks.
2005-05-24 21:14:41
165.   Bob Timmermann
Is Jason Christensen warming up? If Alou is his usual self, he will bring in Christensen to start the 8th to try to get Choi out of the game and then keep changing the rest of the game.

And Vin tells me that Christensen is up.

2005-05-24 21:15:27
166.   capdodger
Damn. That means we can't throw at Tucker for the fun of it. And by "at" I mean head high over the plate.

Or maybe we will anyway...

2005-05-24 21:16:10
167.   alex 7
matheny was laughing at his goggles.
2005-05-24 21:16:14
168.   Bob Timmermann
Even worse we gave up a hit to Tucker.

What particular skill does Tucker have that people keep giving him a job?

2005-05-24 21:18:19
169.   Bob Timmermann
Does Vin own stock in Oracle? He just called Ellison "Larry".
2005-05-24 21:19:39
170.   capdodger
At least it's a catcher running from 2nd. Should be easier should there be a play at the plate.
2005-05-24 21:20:51
171.   Bob Timmermann
6-3 Padres now after a Giles double.
2005-05-24 21:21:14
172.   alex 7
unfortunately I smell a clutch hit coming here.
2005-05-24 21:25:08
173.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona is using many relievers. None of them are effective as it's 7-3 Padres.

It looks like archenemy Russ Ortiz will get the L.

Tomorrow's pitcher for the Giants, Brett Tomko, is on my list.

2005-05-24 21:25:32
174.   capdodger
2005-05-24 21:28:26
175.   JSN
Referring to the comments about Drew, at least he isn't sucking at the plate and NOT getting on base. His .378 OBP is counteracting his suckitude to a certain extent at least.


2005-05-24 21:28:46
176.   JSN
You can COME ON also...
2005-05-24 21:28:56
177.   joekings
Vin loves to say "deuces wild"
2005-05-24 21:29:28
178.   JSN
Ok fine I can't type. Drew's OBP is .376 I believe not .378...
2005-05-24 21:29:43
179.   joekings
nice! hopefully that will give us some mo.
2005-05-24 21:29:50
180.   capdodger
It happens alot in baseball, too.
2005-05-24 21:30:29
181.   regfairfield
Way to get out of that one.
2005-05-24 21:30:46
182.   capdodger
yay. Now score some runs against that vaunted SF pen.
2005-05-24 21:31:10
183.   dzzrtRatt
When referring to Weaver, does Scully ever say "Aces high"?
2005-05-24 21:31:54
184.   Bob Timmermann
7-5 actually in Arizona after a 2-run homer from Counsell.
2005-05-24 21:32:05
185.   alex 7
That should be a morale boost there, great job by the pen. Middle of the lineup coming up, gotta feel good about this right now.
2005-05-24 21:32:38
186.   adg
c'mon Choi, let's put one in the cove.
2005-05-24 21:33:50
187.   Fearing Blue
Tiffany is back from the DL for Vero Beach. He pitched 4.0 innings, giving up 1 ER, on 3 H and 1 BB, with 6 Ks.

LaRoche crushed another HR and is now up to 18 on the year.

2005-05-24 21:37:33
188.   alex 7
can't remember the last time I saw 3 pitchers face 3 hitters in one inning.
2005-05-24 21:40:06
189.   capdodger
Did Vin just say, "Kind of a pixie guy"?
2005-05-24 21:42:49
190.   Jim Hitchcock
I laughed at that too, capdodger. Not the way a guy from Inglewood would want to be described.
2005-05-24 21:45:15
191.   capdodger
I thought I was hearing things. Heavy network traffic or processor usage sometimes garbles my sound and picture.
2005-05-24 21:47:43
192.   Fearing Blue
Looks like Werth may be coming back tomorrow. He finished his night at 4 for 4 with a HBP, 1 HR, 2 Rs, 5 RBIs, and 1 SB.
2005-05-24 21:49:23
193.   capdodger
Anyone care to speculate on the lineup with Werth back? I don't.
2005-05-24 21:50:45
194.   Jim Hitchcock
Alou is putting me to sleep.
2005-05-24 21:50:53
195.   LAT
Apparently Ricky just can't hit in SBC Park
2005-05-24 21:52:02
196.   adg
Mediocre Starting Pitcher (except you, Lowe)
2005-05-24 21:52:27
197.   capdodger
This should be a cheap save if there ever was one.
2005-05-24 21:52:54
198.   dzzrtRatt
Each Dodger hitter gets his own personal pitcher. Might go to their heads.
2005-05-24 21:53:59
199.   Fearing Blue
With how well Ledee has been batting, I wonder if Werth will get to start against RHPs out of the gate. Against LHPs, he'll likely bat second, since that's what they were suggesting prior to the season.
2005-05-24 21:54:45
200.   Bob Timmermann
Hello, my name is Scott, I'll be your reliever tonight.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-24 21:55:29
201.   LAT
Dave Roberts just hit his second triple of the night
2005-05-24 21:55:40
202.   Jim Hitchcock
Tonight was just sucing the Giants in. Tomorrow we go for blood.
2005-05-24 21:56:31
203.   Fearing Blue
After listening to the Giants' broadcasters tonight, I'm looking forward to the ESPN broadcast tomorrow night.
2005-05-24 21:56:56
204.   Steve
196 -- what do you call starting pitchers who are worse than mediocre?

So long Jeff Weaver. Nice knowing you.

2005-05-24 21:57:02
205.   Fearing Blue
Krukow is a more annoying Steve Lyons.
2005-05-24 21:58:03
206.   Fearing Blue
#204: Answer to your question: Odalis Perez, Jeff Weaver, and Scott Erickson.
2005-05-24 21:58:03
207.   joekings
will we ever win two games in a row
2005-05-24 21:58:08
208.   dzzrtRatt
It would have been nice to shut down the Baseball Tonight inevitable observation that LA hasn't won two in a row since the year of the Flood.
2005-05-24 21:58:56
209.   Steve
Is Weaver now leading the league in HR given up to the opposing pitcher?
2005-05-24 21:59:03
210.   dzzrtRatt
So perhaps third base is in okay hands for now? DePo, get us a pitcher!
2005-05-24 21:59:56
211.   the OZ
OK, I missed tonight's game. Can someone explain to me how we lost because Weaver gave up home runs to MIKE MATHENY and JASON SCHMIDT!?!?!?
2005-05-24 22:01:20
212.   LAT
Typical Dodger game: In the second when you get three hits and a walk and all you can manage is one run you know your head case pitcher is going to lose his s%^&t. They didn't really even have to play the rest of the game. Everyone knew what was going to happen. Just another day as a Dodger fan.
2005-05-24 22:01:56
213.   Steve
211 -- Yeah, I turned it off in disgust on Ray Durham's double on a 3-1 count. Didn't need to see the depths to which he would sink. He's done.
2005-05-24 22:02:32
214.   regfairfield
We also deicded to take after the Angels example, and get thrown out at the plate.
2005-05-24 22:03:41
215.   jeongers
#211: Weaver sucks is as good an explanation as any.

Not destroying the Giants bullpen was also unexpected. Surprises all around!

2005-05-24 22:05:55
216.   Steve
214 -- That play with Bradley helped my decision. Yeah, the pitcher's coming up next, but why get a guy thrown out by 30 feet? Then you have the pitcher coming up with two outs. Plus, any offensive output Weaver generates is just offset by the now customary "Opposing Pitcher" bomb anyway. The Grabowski Principle is just killing us.
2005-05-24 22:06:17
217.   LAT
207--Sure we will win two in a row. The first when we win the last game of a series to avoid being swept and the next as we win the first game of a series and lose the next two. The question is will we ever win a series again?

Drew should be batting 8th move Perez to 2nd

2005-05-24 22:06:49
218.   Fearing Blue
Our starting pitching candidates for Sunday's game are Carlyle, Houlton, and Sanchez. Lovely.
2005-05-24 22:07:01
219.   the OZ
I'm very glad that I missed the game only because my softball team had a doubleheader - the rarest of Rec Sports occurrences.

We lost the first game 17-0 and won the second game 30-3. A weird night all around.

2005-05-24 22:08:24
220.   Blue Crew
We need to do something quick. That is make some moves. Third base is one move and another would be at pitcher.

Do you agree or not? If you do, what would be your suggestions on what the Dodgers should do?


2005-05-24 22:09:03
221.   LAT
OZ, that's becasue JD Suck doesn't play for your team.
2005-05-24 22:10:35
222.   LAT
3B appears stable (for now). Need to focus on pitching pitching and more pitching.
2005-05-24 22:12:29
223.   Steve
3B is fine. Plug that hole in house in the short term. If DePo can't fix the pitching (and we're down to 2 1/2 starters who can be called legitimate), this season is toast anyway, and there would be no reason to waste money or prospects on a Polanco or a Lowell.
2005-05-24 22:14:59
224.   alex 7
so THAT was the strategy Jim. That sly Tracy. Wish he would have told us before the game. Guess I should tune in again tomorrow then.

Any excuse to get Drew from 2nd to 6th works for me, so I'll take Werth in the 2 hole.


Batting #3 .533 1.143 1.676 14 abs
Batting #5 .350 .497 .847 145 abs

Small sample size, but he's also a much better hitter with no one on or a runner at 1st than with RISP, so the #5 hole isn't doing much for him or the team.

2005-05-24 22:15:25
225.   joekings
how far out do we have to be at the trading deadline to be considered sellers instead of buyers.
2005-05-24 22:18:09
226.   capdodger
3-4-5 in the order went 0-10 with 1 BB, 7 K, and only 1 RBI. Of course they only left 5 on base and 3 with two outs.
2005-05-24 22:20:14
227.   jeongers
No need to panic, yet. With Arizona losing tonight we're still just three and a half games out. We'll see what Antonio Perez can do.

Pitching-wise, if we can get two or three solid starts from Alvarez in the next couple weeks until Odalis comes back and a few decent starts from the stopgaps, we'll see what we have. We're in hanging on mode now, and if we can stay within five or six games of first until everyone gets healthy, I like our chances.

Doesn't make watching games the last few weeks any easier to stomach . . .

2005-05-24 22:20:48
228.   capdodger
As a related question to 225, who do we sell and to whom for what?
2005-05-24 22:25:47
229.   joekings
228 -- I hope that Depo can take care of that for us. It is his job.
2005-05-24 22:28:17
230.   Fearing Blue
#225: If we're out of the running by the trade deadline, we sell Penny and Weaver to start. They're both free agents after the season and pitching is at a premium in the market. If DePodesta feels like he's bullet-proof, we could also take offers on Gagne.
2005-05-24 22:38:31
231.   Fearing Blue
Prior to tonight's game, we still had the highest OPS in the NL. If Perez can provide ~.750 OPS and average defense at 3B, which would both be improvements, we should be fine there. All signs point to him being capable of doing that. I'm not concerned about our holes offensively or defensively.

Starting pitching is our glaring weakness, with really no end in site. Perez is injured and Weaver may be injured, but even when fully healthy, they're only slightly better than mediocre. Our 5th slot will likely continue to be a rotating door of castoffs (Erickson, Carlyle, Houlton, Sanchez, and maybe someday Mahomes) since Alvarez can't fill the role due to injury concerns. Our bullpen should be a strength, but it matters little when we're losing games by 3 or more runs before we get to them.

2005-05-24 22:40:04
232.   Xeifrank
Watched bits and pieces of the game. Without reading all 200+ posts, here are some of my game notes.

1) Grabowski principle was in effect today as Weaver gave up a home run to the opposing pitcher. I watched Schmidt's at bat and when Weaver got ahead in the count and then started nibbling with curve balls I got a bit nervous. On the 2-2 pitch I said, ok here comes a fast ball, just sit on it... sure enough a fast ball right down the middle and Schmidt went yard.

2) Jim Tracy sacrifice bunting early in the game and down by four runs. Why?

3) Third base coach sending another runner to his death at home plate. Dodger third base coaches have cost us alot of outs at home plate. Also, why don't players try crashing into catchers anymore? This is the Giants we are playing, please crash the catcher next time.

4) Was impressed with the Dodgers bullpen tonight, but unimpressed with the way they hit against the Giants mediocre bullpen.

5) Dodgers in dire need of a win tomorrow with Alvarez making a start. (Wait Paris Hilton Carl's Junior commercial is on). Ok, what was I talking about... oh yeah, baseball.

6) Weaver didn't make the 5 2/3 innings pitched over/under, and alot of DT posters lost alot of virtual money. Over/Under for Alvarez will likely be 6 IPs.



2005-05-24 22:41:02
233.   Steve
The list begins and ends with Gagne. Opposing GMs will demand reimbursement for their cell phone minutes if DePo starts calling them about Weaver.

I can't believe they called Carlyle back up. We're doomed.

2005-05-24 22:45:08
234.   Steve
Wait a're telling me that Jim Tracy bunted down four runs? Who?

Izturis?! (I just looked it up) THE GUY HITTING .350! Tracy should be locked up.

The Times says that Tracy is looking at Alvarez throwing "60-70" which means that we are likely going to see four of Alvarez, then a planned two of Erickson or Carlyle.

In other words, I'll take the under again.

2005-05-24 23:20:51
235.   Shlomo
In light of the starting pitcher situation, anyone in favor of letting Grabowski pitch, and moving Weaver to be our #1 pinch hitter?
2005-05-24 23:34:49
236.   Steve
Good Lord. Just read the Times writeup by some idiot who isn't Steve Henson. Jeff Weaver can barely get the ball 60 feet 6 inches, and this guy leads with the offense, as if 5 run deficits are mere trifles to be shunted aside in the glorious climb to a World Championship. Now my question: Why, in an off-season where even performers like Kent and Choi got blasted, is there this grand media conspiracy to cover up Jeff Weaver's inability to pitch? It's bizarre. The guy is Paul Wilson with jewelry, but even Henson was trying to defend him yesterday. Makes you wonder if these guys actually watch, or they just copy from old templates of 2003 recaps.
2005-05-24 23:35:23
237.   the OZ

Jackson didn't pitch terrible in LV - 5IP, 3K, 2B, 6H, 2ER.

Werth was 4-4 with a home run. If he can match last season's production at the ML level, our sudden lack of pitching will be slightly less of a problem, because we'll score slightly more runs.

2005-05-24 23:37:55
238.   dzzrtRatt
"Fluid in the wrist"?
2005-05-24 23:50:28
239.   the OZ
Oh, and LaRoche went yard again. 18 on the season.
2005-05-25 04:18:03
240.   Langhorne
Six hits. Three by the eight and nine hitters.

There's nothing like a good offense.

And this is nothing like a good offense.

2005-05-25 06:18:02
241.   Louis in SF
Izturis according to the Daily News bunted on his own and was doing it for a base hit-he said Alfonso was playing too far back. ALthough credited with a sacrafice, bunt was his own chosing. I didn't see the non-slide, but if he was out by 10 feet, slidding or trying to crash Methaney may have risked injury and Bradley chose wisely not too.
In light of all the bad Dodger news, it is so easy to find, the fact that Perez continues to hit is great. Love to see Bradley moved to third and Drew to five.
2005-05-25 07:41:02
242.   Xeifrank
it really didn't look like Izzy was bunting for a hit as it was the 2nd pitch he squared around on. It wasn't a drag bunt, he squared around fairly early. So I assumed it was a planned sac bunt.



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