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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

May 28 Open Chat: Derek and the Dominoes
2005-05-28 12:58
by Jon Weisman
Comments (345)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-28 13:00:36
1.   molokai
Some great info on our pitcher tonight.

Are we missing Paul Quantrill?

2005-05-28 13:04:41
2.   Bob Timmermann
Our Hawaiian posters will bemoan the fact that the Giants traded Jerome Williams (along with David Aardsma) today to the Cubs for LaTroy "Screaming Line Drive" Hawkins.

(The latter nickname borrowed from Jim Caple, I believe.)

2005-05-28 13:14:05
3.   adg
Re: #1 No, we are not.
2005-05-28 13:15:35
4.   Marty
Neither are the Red Sox. They hit everything he threw apparently
2005-05-28 13:26:50
5.   Bob Timmermann
Not that I expect it today, but the Dodgers should have a game like the Red Sox are having today in about a week or so.

They haven't had one since the Dodgers were fortunate enough to face Paul Wilson in Cincinnati.

2005-05-28 13:29:22
6.   Marty
Giants go up 1-0 on the Padres in the first.
2005-05-28 13:32:16
7.   Bob Timmermann
The Red Sox have a mere 26 hits through 8 innings.

And 2 walks!

2005-05-28 13:35:42
8.   Linkmeister
Jerome to the friendly confines? Well, that means our local sports guys will show pictures of the ivy rather than McCovey Cove when they're giving us updates on the young man.
2005-05-28 13:36:11
9.   Doug N
RE: Thompson article

I don't get this article of Thompson or Dreifort? Although, it seems like he's not really a AA pitcher since his career was set back with those injuries.

Red Sox club record is 28 hits. They just got their 27th, and the 15 runs so far is the most they've ever scored against the Yanks.

2005-05-28 13:37:20
10.   Marty
The person who "thought" up Scooter on the Fox broadcast needs to be knee-capped.
2005-05-28 13:39:35
11.   Marty
I love the home-run line in the Red Sox game:

HR: Renteria (3, 5th inning off Quantrill, 3 on, 1 out), Nixon (7, 5th inning off Quantrill, 2 on, 1 out), Payton (3, 7th inning off Quantrill, 1 on, 0 out).

2005-05-28 13:42:23
12.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps Foulke will be able to hold on to a 16-run lead.
2005-05-28 13:48:44
13.   DXMachina
#10 I totally agree. Scooter delenda est.

#12, I dunno. Foulke has really, really been awful. Like, Erickson awful.

2005-05-28 13:53:48
14.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Scooter was originally thought up for Dodger Stadium. On Fan Appreciation Day in 1998 (9/27/1998), there was a Scooter-like animated character who popped up on DiamondVision. He was booed each time he appeared.

I don't know if he was named Scooter, but I think that Fox is using the same voice actor.

2005-05-28 13:56:20
15.   DXMachina
Scooter makes me all nostalgic for Peter Puck.
2005-05-28 14:03:25
16.   Bob Timmermann
Bring back Peter Puck! I want more Ronnie Schell!
2005-05-28 14:09:18
17.   Jim Hitchcock
You know, if the Padres only had players named Gibson and Ludwig, they could start a band...
2005-05-28 14:57:28
18.   Marty
One of the Fox broadcasters just said the Giants bullpen was "greased up and ready to go".
2005-05-28 15:07:51
19.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

May 28, 1901

Coming off a National League pennant the year before, Brooklyn stumbled out of the gate in 1901 and were able to balance their record at 13-13 with a come from behind 8-7 win over the Pittsburg (no h at the time) Pirates at Washington Park.

Brooklyn spotted the Pirates a 5-0 before rallying for five runs in the fifth and then added single runs in the sixth, seventh, and eighth and survived an error by shortstop Bill Dahlen that allowed the Pirates to close the gap to 8-7, but pitcher Bill Donovan, who had replaced ineffective starter Frank Kitson in the fifth, was able to get the last out.

The 1901 Brooklyn squad was definitely star-studded. It was managed by Hall of Famer Ned Hanlon. Other Hall of Famers on the squad were outfielder Willie Keeler and first baseman Joe Kelley. Catcher Deacon McGuire, who would play his last game when he was 48, was a relatively young 37 in 1901 and in his sixteenth season in the majors. The Dodgers big hitting star that year was 22-year old Jimmy Sheckard, who batted .354 and hit 11 home runs and 19 triples and led the NL in slugging at .534, totals that Sheckard would never again reach in a 17-year career. 35-year old second baseman Tom Daly led the NL in doubles with 38.

Brooklyn had a good August and September to finish with a 79-57 record, but it was only good for third place, 9 ½ games behind first place Pittsburg. 1901 started a stretch when the Pirates, Cubs, and Giants won all the NL pennants until 1914. The National League was dividing into Haves and Have Nots.

And of course, one of the biggest changes in baseball in 1901 was the establishment of a second major league to compete with the National League. That of course was the American League, which declared itself to be a major league in 1901. The American League was a big hit at the box office and featured some great offensive stars, especially Philadelphia's Nap Lajoie who batted .426 with 14 HRs and 126 RBI, which would have been a Triple Crown if anyone had officially kept track of RBI at the time. Lajoie and others had their batting averages helped out by the fact that the American League did not adopt the National League's new foul strike rule. Starting in 1901, National League hitters would be charged a strike for their first two foul balls (except for bunts). The American League did not charge a strike on foul balls until 1903.

One of the managers in the new American League was John McGraw, who managed the new Baltimore Orioles team. McGraw would change jobs in 1902, an event that would be part of the Dodgers' reason for residence in the second division for many years.

Thanks to the Washington Post, and Retrosheet

2005-05-28 15:14:53
20.   ddog
#14, I remember being at that game. I emailed the Dodgers afterwards about it and got a response from someone in marketing asking why we were booing. I mention this only to contrast how responsive even the Fox ownership was compared to the McCourts. I also wonder if anyone would boo today if the McCourts tried a little animated mascot, or for that matter, a real mascot. We've been so numbed by change -- and the standard of behavior at the Stadium has so declined -- that I doubt that there would be much of a reaction to anything short of the Dodgers wearing hot pants and adding beer logos to their jerseys. As if the latter is not in the plans for the next few years, alas...

Did anyone hear the incognito Dodger employee call Ross Porter yesterday and complain about what the McCourts have done to the morale among the Dodger workforce? Imagine being nostalgic for Fox, but apparently that's what it's like among those who work at the Stadium behind the scenes...

2005-05-28 15:27:52
21.   Bob Timmermann
I e-mailed the Dodgers after the early appearance of Scooter to tell them that I thought the character could be cute if used judiciously, pregame stuff, promos and such.

I didn't get a response. Those marketing people didn't want me showing them up!

2005-05-28 15:43:48
22.   bokonon42
Doesn't Fox have a Sat. morning baseball-for-kids show? That's where Scooter belongs. Unless they would let Steve write the scripts. Imagine Scooter explaining the Grabowski Principle.
2005-05-28 15:50:52
23.   Bob Timmermann
"Baseball for Kids"? Isn't that why the Dodgers have Steve Lyons around?
2005-05-28 15:51:21
24.   LAT
5-3 SD Bottom 9, Giants 2 on 2 out. . .
2005-05-28 15:53:30
25.   Bob Timmermann
Did anyone seriously think Michael Tucker would have taken ball four?
2005-05-28 15:53:33
26.   LAT
Michael Tucker strikes out. SD wins. Hoffman didn't look too good
2005-05-28 15:55:18
27.   LAT
How was Star Wars? Two thumbs up? I've heard its the best of 1-3.
2005-05-28 16:01:50
28.   Bob Timmermann
I would say Star Wars 3 was the best of the prequels, but that's mainly because Jar Jar Binks doesn't say anything.

Very cool action scenes, but in some sense, the drama is blunted because you know how the story has to end. Don't expect anyone from that film to get nominated for an acting Oscar.

Except for the little kids in the theater who were wondering what was going to happen in the "next one".

2005-05-28 16:05:02
29.   LAT
Not that I'm crying for the Giants but I do not see the wisdom of the Williams/Aarsmada for Hawkins trade. Jerome always made me nervous when he pitched against the Dodgers. He throws hard as any young pitcher. Hawkins by contrast is a mess. I know the Giants need a closer but they just signed Binetez. Can't believe they traded away the future for this season. Don't they know that with Bonds gone and Schmit not right this season is over for them.
2005-05-28 16:07:37
30.   LAT
Bob, Any chance you were getting your car washed today at about 1:00 because that is exactly what some guy i started takling to said.
2005-05-28 16:09:51
31.   Bob Timmermann
I get my car washed about twice a year. And last Tuesday was one of those two days.

So, it likely wasn't me.

I did learn that my car is really blue! I always thought it was gray.

2005-05-28 16:19:09
32.   LAT
I do a little better than twice a year but not much. FOr me its when I run out of winshield fluid and have no other way of cleaning the window. Then I get it washed.
2005-05-28 16:32:12
33.   bokonon42
When Star Wars was about the good guys fighting the bad guys, it was good; fun. The last three have been like a public service announcement in political awareness. Episode III is the best of the bunch, but that's like being the best Police Academy movie. Which, of course, was Police Academy 7: Mission to Moscow.
2005-05-28 17:03:46
34.   Bob Timmermann
Derek Thompson is a lefty?

Really? Shows how much I paid attention during spring training.

2005-05-28 17:07:33
35.   Bob Timmermann
And since a lefty is starting does that mean Shawn Green takes the night off?
2005-05-28 17:27:00
36.   Linkmeister
Aw, rats. It's not on the tube out here. Instead I get college baseball and softball.
2005-05-28 17:32:33
37.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, tonight's game is on KCOP. Or for those who didn't grow up in L.A., UPN 13.

In my youth, it was KCOP, a Chris Craft Station. That was back in the day when those stations ran nothing but "Get Smart" and "Gilligan's Island" and heavily edited movies to fit into weird time slots.

2005-05-28 17:35:56
38.   Bob Timmermann
And we have lineups:



2005-05-28 17:40:43
39.   Marty
I used to work for Copley Newspapers and I had always heard that KCOP was originally owned by Copley, before Chris Craft. Hence the COP in the call letters. But I can't verify that.
2005-05-28 17:41:33
40.   Bob Timmermann
Going to the bottom of the sixth at Dodger Stadium:
Chatsworth 1, El Camino Real 2

ECR is the "home" team.

LA City High School baseball championship.

2005-05-28 17:51:19
41.   franklin
Is Chatsworth still #1 in the nation?
2005-05-28 17:53:54
42.   willhite
Where are you getting info on the HS Championship game? Is it on the radio?
2005-05-28 17:58:13
43.   Bob Timmermann
The Daily News is updating it slowly on its website.

It's 5-1 ECR going to the 7th.

No, Chatsworth is not #1, they lost three times this year, twice (and likely three times) to ECR and once to Hart.

2005-05-28 18:01:58
44.   JSN
Hart is where I went to high school. Played football there.
2005-05-28 18:12:16
45.   LAT
"KCOP a Chris Craft Station" That's Great. I had forgotten all about that. I think Cal Worthington must of had a piece of the action too. Speaking of good old LA TV anyone whateve happened to Bob McAllaster, Mr. Wonderama.
2005-05-28 18:20:59
46.   Marty
I wonder what the over/under will be for the AA kid.
2005-05-28 18:21:28
47.   Jim Hitchcock
And Channel 11 was a Metromedia KMET, the Mighty Met, who who-ya'd it's way into history...
2005-05-28 18:22:18
48.   Marty
I also think the L.A. Times had a piece of channel 11 in the fifties.
2005-05-28 18:26:25
49.   Jim Hitchcock
KMET was grat for a long time, but does anyone remember KWST?
2005-05-28 18:28:25
50.   Marty
K-WEST? I remember that. But does anyone remember KPPPC before everyone moved over to KMET?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-28 18:28:47
51.   Marty
Subtract one 'P' please
2005-05-28 18:29:12
52.   Im So Blue
I had always heard that KCOP was originally owned by Copley, before Chris Craft. Hence the COP in the call letters. But I can't verify that.

I did a Google search on KCOP Copely and found this:

Channel 13 first began broadcasting over 50 years ago, in 1948, as KLAC-TV. In 1953, it was sold to Copley Press, who renamed it KCOP. Just a month later, Copley sold the station to a group of investors that included Bing Crosby. Crosby's group owned the station until 1960, when it was sold to Chris Craft Industries.

2005-05-28 18:30:18
53.   Marty
Thanks Blue. They owned it a whole month. LOL
2005-05-28 18:32:24
54.   Jim Hitchcock
That's a funny thing, Marty...for years I had assumed what I remembered as KPPC was actually KPCC. Long, long sets (entire Allman Bros. sides, for instance), and no commercials. The epitome of layed back disc jockeys.
2005-05-28 18:39:14
55.   Jim Hitchcock
In tribute to legendary KPPC-FM 106.7 in Pasadena, California, the first FM Rock Underground Radio Station in Southern California originally located in the basement of the Pasadena Presbyterian Church and broadcasting hippie rebop from November 1, 1967 until the entire KPPC-FM airstaff was fired on October 24, 1971.

Man, the great B. Mitchell Reed. Saw him open an Emerson, Lake, And Palmer show with "Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends..."

2005-05-28 18:43:09
56.   Marty
And Shadoe Stevens!
2005-05-28 18:43:57
57.   Jim Hitchcock
Thankfully, no Humble Harv.
2005-05-28 18:44:32
58.   Marty
Nice job in the girlfriend area for our pitcher...
2005-05-28 18:50:33
59.   Jim Hitchcock
Gee, dad, how 'bout a camera with a zoom lens?
2005-05-28 18:51:39
60.   Sam DC
I would say this is way OT, but there doesn't really appear to be much of a T yet.

Anyhow, I find this pretty amusing:

I don't know from Indy, let alone NASCAR, and I have no clue who Robby ("not Jeff") Gordon is, but isn't this sort of whining against various codes of honor/manliness/whatever?

2005-05-28 18:51:46
61.   Jim Hitchcock
Kid throws hard.
2005-05-28 18:54:53
62.   Linkmeister
Sam, so can we expect the equivalent of Eddie Gaedel at Indy next year if Patrick wins?

That's pretty whiny for a big tough NASCAR driver, but then Vijay Singh got all huffy about Annika Sorenstam playing the same tournament too.

Sexism lives. Regrettably.

2005-05-28 18:55:27
63.   bokonon42
60- He probably just wants to sit on her lap.
2005-05-28 18:59:25
64.   Mark
60- It's worse than that: it's simply an excuse for a loser redneck to comment about how "them wimmins can't be in our sport! grunt grunt".
2005-05-28 19:03:46
65.   Bob Timmermann
El Camino Real held on for a 5-1 win.

Chatsworth's string of city titles ends at 2. The only school to win 3 straight is Fremont from 1946-48.

2005-05-28 19:05:16
66.   adamclyde
anyone watching on TV? on gameday, looked like quite an at bat Glaus had... 6 foul balls, 10 total pitches. Many more ABs like that and our young little pitcher won't be around much longer...
2005-05-28 19:05:41
67.   Bob Timmermann
The DBacks work well when they get productive outs!
2005-05-28 19:06:11
68.   Sam DC
29 pitches later . . . welcome to the majors.
2005-05-28 19:06:17
69.   jeongers
Wow, 28 pitches. He'd better stop falling behind hitters.
2005-05-28 19:07:15
70.   Sam DC
this is much more efficient . . .
2005-05-28 19:07:36
71.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt Thompson is slated for more than 5 innings unless he was throwing a no-hitter. Then we turn it over to the crack bullpen!
2005-05-28 19:07:59
72.   Jim Hitchcock
Into the pool, HSC.
2005-05-28 19:10:08
73.   Mark
Personally, I'm hoping for an unbelievably rare quad-Grabowski from the Snakes tonight.
2005-05-28 19:11:43
74.   bokonon42
A sweet, sweet productive out for Thompson's first AB.
2005-05-28 19:12:55
75.   Daniel B
Bob, I just got home from the LA City High School Championship game. Well played game. Eric Pettis pitched a great game for El Camino, only giving up 2 hits, a home run in the first, and a double in the seventh. The Chatsworth centerfielder made a ridiculous play on a drive hit to the Auto Club sign. Full extension lay out and made the catch. Unbelievable.

Interesting tidbit about Dodger Stadium today. parking was free! The food was cheaper. And Tommy Lasorda stuck around and gave a speach after the game.

2005-05-28 19:13:19
76.   Marty
Phillips for Ishii is turning into the trade of the year in baseball.
2005-05-28 19:13:55
77.   Daniel Zappala
I ask the wisdom of Dodger Thoughts: Is it OK for a pitcher to sacrifice given that there is very little chance he can get a hit anyway? Puts two runners into scoring position ...
2005-05-28 19:14:03
78.   jeongers
Productive outs: they're like little chocolates dipped in . . . more chocolate.
2005-05-28 19:15:28
79.   jeongers
That was not a productive out.
2005-05-28 19:16:04
80.   Daniel B
Tommy Lasorda today at the game:

"I told my wife I had to go to Dodger Stadium to make a speech at the game. She said to me 'Tommy, you love baseball and the Dodgers more than me.' I replied 'Yeah but I love you more than I love Basketball and Football.'"

Tommy was great today.

2005-05-28 19:16:24
81.   Sam DC
Agree that Phillips trade was smart at the time and looks good in hindsight, but I'm happy to see that Kaz is hanging in there in NY: 6 2/3 today, 5 hit, 1 run, 3 BB, 3 K v. FL.
2005-05-28 19:17:16
82.   Bob Timmermann
I think it was OK for Thompson to bat, but the most hardcore anti-sacrifice people say that the only time it is a worthwhile play is if you have a very poor hitter (think Bob Buhl if you're old enough, if younger think Doug Davis, if confused think of a polar bear) and a very good pitcher (Roger Clemens, e.g.) on the hill.

Otherwise, you're better off hoping that the bad hitter can get lucky than giving up an out. You're more likely to have the bad hitter strike out than hit into a DP.

2005-05-28 19:17:51
83.   the OZ
Having a pitcher in his ML debut sac bunt against a very good pitcher to move runners to 2nd and 3rd base...always a good move.
2005-05-28 19:19:46
84.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger pitchers named Derek can't hold runners very well.
2005-05-28 19:19:52
85.   Daniel B
Every bag has been stolen off the pitcher. Very few have really taken one of Phillips.
2005-05-28 19:21:44
86.   Sam DC
What happened with the bunt single by Terrero?
2005-05-28 19:22:39
87.   Bob Timmermann
Not to be a joke here, but that is definitely one time we can say that "Beltre would have mad that play."

Perez couldn't barehand the ball.

2005-05-28 19:25:43
88.   Jeromy
Two lead off walks come around to score.
2005-05-28 19:25:56
89.   jeongers
The emotional rollercoaster that is Gameday:

I see "In play, run scoring play." Crap.

We wait. Then, I see that no one's on base, thinking, "Oh God, a three-run bomb." Double crap.

Then, Gameday gives me the news that Green scored on a double play. Half a crap.

2005-05-28 19:29:39
90.   adamclyde

I hear you... that is my life since I was exiled to the East coast and can no longer see any games on TV or in person. Though, it does create a sort of mystery around the game...

2005-05-28 19:30:11
91.   Bob Timmermann
I think I may put Shawn Green on my list now.
2005-05-28 19:31:35
92.   Sam DC
Like 89 said. This game, in particular, has been gameday exhausting. First inning had the Glaus 10 pitch Olney with two on.
2005-05-28 19:31:41
93.   Marty
The kid is as shaky as you would expect, especially with the lead off walks, but he looks better than Erickon so far to me. He gets the top of the lineup this inning. Let's see who makes the adjustments.
2005-05-28 19:32:53
94.   Bob Timmermann
Counsell is already on my list.

He's under the category of players who were bad on the Dodgers but good for other teams.

2005-05-28 19:33:27
95.   Bob Timmermann
Yeah, where's your Messiah now, Counsell?
2005-05-28 19:33:47
96.   Jim Hitchcock
Two of Thompson's three SO's have been in the dirt.
2005-05-28 19:35:16
97.   the OZ

Fewer shots of the parents. More shots of the Girlfriend.


2005-05-28 19:35:20
98.   Sam DC
What did SG do to get on the list?
2005-05-28 19:36:03
99.   Jim Hitchcock
I think Vin said that's his sister, OZ.
2005-05-28 19:36:12
100.   bokonon42
SG made a diving catch to put away Bradley.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-28 19:36:50
101.   Bob Timmermann
He made a diving catch in foul territory to retire Bradley. And he actually drew a walk and stole a base in this game.

He is showing skills that he did not display in Los Angeles.

2005-05-28 19:37:28
102.   bokonon42
The woman to the left (our left) of the parents is his girlfriend, the one to the right is his sister.
2005-05-28 19:38:47
103.   Jim Hitchcock
OK, I still haven't seen her. Was wondering what you guys wew getting so excited about :)
2005-05-28 19:40:05
104.   Marty
The girlfriend is OUTSTANDING

Nice inning by the kid. Let's hope he goes 5+ and we get some runs.

2005-05-28 19:40:22
105.   Daniel B

But he still makes a good play and looks completely catatonic. No emotion at all.A little nod or smile might be nice.

2005-05-28 19:40:33
106.   jeongers
Alright, scoreless inning. What's the kid's stuff like? Someone mentions he throws hard. What are his other pitches, and what's he hitting on the gun?
2005-05-28 19:41:36
107.   Marty
Looks like a fastball in the low 90s and a slow curve in the low 70s. I'd like to see a third pitch.
2005-05-28 19:43:21
108.   Benaiah
Aflac Trivia, What Dodger has the most career grand slams?

I know Ventura must have had the most of any Dodger player, but probably not the most with the Dodgers.

2005-05-28 19:43:25
109.   bokonon42
I think the BOB's gun is juiced. Wasn't Yhency up over 100 last night?
2005-05-28 19:44:32
110.   Daniel B
Jeeze, this Perez kid is just on fire. Wow.
2005-05-28 19:44:58
111.   Jim Hitchcock
Jose Norihu Edwards who?
2005-05-28 19:45:09
112.   jeongers
Alright, come on, Hee Seop.
2005-05-28 19:45:28
113.   Bob Timmermann
That was an extraordinarily unproductive out by Choi.

But I believe in the magical power of the Goggles!

2005-05-28 19:45:43
114.   jeongers
Never mind . . .
2005-05-28 19:48:11
115.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, Vin, Bill Fischer holds the record for most consecutive innings pitched without a walk.

Greg Maddux has the NL record and he ended it on an intentional walk.

2005-05-28 19:48:34
116.   Jeromy
Unprovoked my 7 year-old asked for a pair of goggles like the ones Phillips wears.
2005-05-28 19:51:25
117.   Jim Hitchcock
Aw, Vinny took the sting outta that, somehow.
2005-05-28 19:51:56
118.   Jeromy
This would be a great time for Thompson's first ML hit!
2005-05-28 19:52:42
119.   jeongers
That sucked.
2005-05-28 19:53:26
120.   Jeromy
It always hurts to have runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs and fail to score--even if your 7-8-9 hitters are up.
2005-05-28 19:53:27
121.   Benaiah
Ha 117. I had a smile on my face after Vin's callout. "Hello operator. Thanks for that vital piece of information, Vin."
2005-05-28 19:53:35
122.   Marty
I feel like we will score enough this game. Maybe just blind optimism
2005-05-28 20:02:39
123.   Bob Timmermann
It was bad not scoring because the Dogders 7 and 8 hitters are both pretty good.
2005-05-28 20:03:14
124.   jeongers
Alright, big out. Now if the top of the lineup can do something . . .
2005-05-28 20:06:52
125.   Jim Hitchcock
He's gonna throw you a fastball, Jayson...
2005-05-28 20:08:46
126.   molokai
El Camino Real-National Academic Decathlon Champions & LA City Baseball Champions. We be proud of our High School.
2005-05-28 20:09:05
127.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Fischer - 84 1/3 IP without a walk for KC in 1962

Greg Maddux - 72 1/2 IP without a walk for ATL in 2001.

2005-05-28 20:10:13
128.   jeongers
Now, Milton seems to be swinging at strikes, but he's made Vasquez throw four pitches total in his three at-bats. What the?
2005-05-28 20:10:42
129.   Marty
So if Vasquez is in the 40's for no walks, why is Vin talking about it so much?
2005-05-28 20:13:19
130.   Jeromy
lead off walk to the pitcher. ouch.
2005-05-28 20:13:30
131.   jeongers
sigh He walked the pitcher.
2005-05-28 20:16:02
132.   Bob Timmermann
Because 40 is actually a fairly long time and I think it was close to the AZ record.

84 innings is a very long time to go. It's over 9 games.

The last guy Fischer walked before he started his streak was named Bubba (Phillips) and the guy he ended the streak against was also named Bubba (Morton).

2005-05-28 20:19:16
133.   Jeromy
95 pitches through 5. Good effort, Thompson. I hope the team can score some runs for you in the next half inning . . .
2005-05-28 20:20:11
134.   Bob Timmermann
I hope the offense can score some runs, but I also hope that Houlton doesn't cough up some of his own.
2005-05-28 20:20:25
135.   jeongers
What happened on the pickoff play? Did Counsell get caught leaning a little too far off first?
2005-05-28 20:20:30
136.   Charlie Hustler
CBS Sportsline has him at 88 pitches (which I guess is relatively speaking, the same as 95).
2005-05-28 20:21:09
137.   The Anc
Its not mop up time, they shouldn't be getting Houlton ready.
2005-05-28 20:21:46
138.   Bob Timmermann
Counsell broke for second and then changed his mind and went back and got hung out to dry.
2005-05-28 20:23:36
139.   Jeromy
Yes! As Kent and Drew go, so do the Dodgers.
2005-05-28 20:23:40
140.   jeongers
2005-05-28 20:23:40
141.   Im So Blue
Maybe Drew is out of his slump? ;)
2005-05-28 20:24:39
142.   Bob Timmermann
It's going to really stink once Perez cools off.
2005-05-28 20:24:42
143.   Johnson
And don't forget that our new third baseman is pretty hot at the moment, too.
2005-05-28 20:24:59
144.   Charlie Hustler
Maybe it's Kent, Drew and Perez (now hitting .533) ?
2005-05-28 20:25:45
145.   The Anc
Now they have Duaner up instead of Houlton.
2005-05-28 20:28:38
146.   The Anc
Is it me, or does Derek Thompson look kind of like Jim Thome, but washed on hot?
2005-05-28 20:29:25
147.   Bob Timmermann
The year Bill Fischer had his record walk-less streak (1962), he went 4-12 with a 3.95 ERA.

During the streak, he went 2-8.

Although in fairness to Fischer, the 1962 Kansas City A's weren't very good, 72-90.

2005-05-28 20:29:56
148.   Bob Timmermann
Deciding between pinch-hitting Edwards or Robles seems to be an inconsequential choice.
2005-05-28 20:31:38
149.   Charlie Hustler
Well, Robles is 4 for his last 6... after going 1 for his first 17!
2005-05-28 20:31:42
150.   jeongers
Doesn't Robles at least hit left-handed?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-28 20:32:52
151.   Bob Timmermann
This is the anti-FJT game.
2005-05-28 20:33:07
152.   The Anc
Let's give the wall an assist on that RBI!
2005-05-28 20:33:48
153.   Bob Timmermann
I think the theory Tracy also might have been using is that if he was ahead, he'd rather have Robles around for defense than Edwards.

Not that Robles is the second coming of Luis Aparicio.

2005-05-28 20:34:22
154.   Nick Iyengar
I've said it before: I kinda like this Edwards guy. No idea how he's going to get any PT, though.
2005-05-28 20:37:49
155.   jeongers
Cool. Come one, Duaner.
2005-05-28 20:40:42
156.   jeongers
I meant to say, "Come on, Duaner."
2005-05-28 20:41:46
157.   Bob Timmermann
My grandmother was married to a Spanish-American war vet. When she passed away in 2001, she stopped getting her monthly widow's pension from that man (it was her second husband, not my grandfather). She got $13/month.
2005-05-28 20:42:53
158.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, there's the girlfriend. The one in the ponytail. Alright!
2005-05-28 20:43:24
159.   Dodgerkid
Hot and trashy.
2005-05-28 20:43:27
160.   Marty
Ok. If Tracy goes to form, it's Ghame over then Game Over.

I like this kid. Let's give him some omre starts.

2005-05-28 20:43:39
161.   Dodgerkid
Spanish American War = Iraq War
2005-05-28 20:44:18
162.   Marty
make that "more" I'm cooking some pozole up and trying to type fast.
2005-05-28 20:44:22
163.   Icaros
I can't see her on my radio. Somebody post a composite sketch.
2005-05-28 20:45:49
164.   Icaros

You're always making some tasty sounding dishes. It's kind of painful to read your posts. Feel free to invite us to dinner anytime.

2005-05-28 20:47:42
165.   Bob Timmermann
The Spanish American War didn't last nearly as long. My grandmother's husband didn't even see any combat in it. Although he did end up going to the Philippines and there was a lot of insurgency and torturing going on there after the war.

I was told he developed a healthy dislike for Douglas MacArthur. My mom also told me that he told her before he died (in 1942) that Corregidor would never be taken by the Japanese.

2005-05-28 20:49:25
166.   Dodgerkid
The Spanish American war led to the Filipino insurrection which killed a million Filipinos, 3000 Americans, and led to permanent military bases in the Philipines. Both the Spanish American War and the Iraq War began on false pretenses. I would say the parallels are striking Bob.
2005-05-28 20:51:44
167.   Nick Iyengar
4-3. The Shawn Green Special.
2005-05-28 20:52:21
168.   Bob Timmermann
I concur.
2005-05-28 20:53:10
169.   Jim Hitchcock
Like to see that one on Gameday.
2005-05-28 20:53:12
170.   Nick Iyengar
Holy cow. Even Vin's never seen that before.

Dumb move by Duaner. Now we're in trouble.

2005-05-28 20:53:58
171.   Jeromy
170. Please explain. I'm out of market.
2005-05-28 20:54:18
172.   Nick Iyengar
This is where I'd like to see Gagne come in.
2005-05-28 20:55:04
173.   Nick Iyengar
171: Terrero hits a high chopper, Duaner can't catch it. He throws his glove up, knocks the ball down, and makes the play. Nice job actually, if the play was legal.

But it wasn't, so Terrero gets a free pass to 3rd.

2005-05-28 20:55:10
174.   Bob Timmermann
Sanchez threw his glove at a bouncer by Terrero and hit it. That's an automatic triple.
2005-05-28 20:55:18
175.   Marty
Come up to beautiful Altadena!

Pozole (or posole) is an easy dish if you have a crock pot or dutch oven. It's basically Menudo but with pork instead. 2 lbs. of cubed, browned pork ribs, then a can of whole tomatoes, 2 cans of hominy and onion, garlic, anchiote, and chile powder and whatever spices you want to add. I'm hoping it's dinner for the whole week.

2005-05-28 20:55:29
176.   Jim Hitchcock
Comebacker over Duaner's head. Duaner threw his glove at it(hitting it). The runner was awarded two bases.
2005-05-28 20:55:44
177.   Mark Linsey
Since Gameday still hasn't figured out what to do about that one, for those watching it Duaner threw his glove in the air to knock down a hit by Terrero. He was able to field the ball and throw to first almost in time, but since throwing the glove is not allowed Terrero was awarded third.
2005-05-28 20:56:22
178.   Icaros
Duaner is a stupid, worthless idiot.
2005-05-28 20:56:24
179.   Jeromy
It is funny. Gameday says Terrero reached on fan interference.
2005-05-28 20:56:32
180.   Dodgerkid
I stayed home for this?!
2005-05-28 20:56:56
181.   Mark Linsey
And Duaner spoils Thompson's win.
2005-05-28 20:57:08
182.   Marty
Jeebus, forget the food, We are blowing this game!
2005-05-28 20:57:58
183.   Bob Timmermann
Rule 7.05
Each runner including the batter runner may, without liability to be put out, advance_ (a) To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight and he touched all bases legally; or if a fair ball which, in the umpire's judgment, would have gone out of the playing field in flight, is deflected by the act of a fielder in throwing his glove, cap, or any article of his apparel; (b) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril; (c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.
2005-05-28 20:58:11
184.   Icaros
Sounds good, Marty. Is your hometown the same place where all the dairy products come from?
2005-05-28 20:58:36
185.   Nagman
As somebody said last night... didn't I see this game last night? (Well, okay, except for the Charlie Brown play)

At least Duaner's not in line for the undeserving W.

2005-05-28 20:58:39
186.   Jim Hitchcock
Ah, menudo. The dish that inspired `Tripe-faced
2005-05-28 20:58:39
187.   jeongers
Okay, seriously, how many pitchers have homered off us this year?
2005-05-28 20:58:54
188.   Dodgerkid
Altadena is a neighborhood north of Pasadena.
2005-05-28 20:59:24
189.   bokonon42
166- That still leaves 900k+ dead Iraqis to go. G-d help us all if it comes to that.
2005-05-28 21:00:32
190.   Dodgerkid
With the amount of depleted uranium we've pumped into air and water of Iraq, I think the death toll combined with the first gulf war is at the very least half a million.
2005-05-28 21:00:47
191.   Bob Timmermann
But did Terrero get credited with a triple? Shouldn't it be a 3-base error on Sanchez? I can't figure it out in the scoring rules.

No doubt the official scorer can't either.

2005-05-28 21:01:49
192.   Icaros
Altadena is a neighborhood north of Pasadena.

I know, but my question is whether or not it is related to the Altadena dairy empire.

2005-05-28 21:02:41
193.   Charlie Hustler
Back to rule 7.05:

Is Sanchez charged with an error? If so, are the runs unearned, or would Terrero have been safe regardless?

2005-05-28 21:02:50
194.   Bob Timmermann
Off the top of my head I can think of Schmidt, Milton, and Vazquez who hit homers.

But can someone tell me why in the world Vazquez was hitting there if they were going to take him out?

2005-05-28 21:03:06
195.   Marty
Icaros, funny you should ask that. No, Altadena has nothing to do with Alta Dena Dairy. Alta Dena Dairy started in Monrovia (where I grew up) by the Steuve brothers. I knew the Steuve daughters. Their dairy was next to my elementary school. They were noted for their raw milk, which they were always in court for.
2005-05-28 21:04:07
196.   Bob Timmermann
It's got to be an error an unearned run. When Angelo Encarnacion ended a game against the Dodgers by stopping a pitch with his mask, he got credited with an error.

I was at that one!

2005-05-28 21:04:09
197.   Icaros
But can someone tell me why in the world Vazquez was hitting there if they were going to take him out?

Because Melvin knew that the worthless moron on the mound would groove him one.

2005-05-28 21:04:26
198.   Nick Iyengar
This has been a weird game, huh? We need to work on getting pitchers out. Or have our pitchers start taking some more BP.
2005-05-28 21:05:02
199.   Charlie Hustler
Vazquez is hitting .286, which is better than the entire bench...
2005-05-28 21:05:20
200.   bokonon42
I wish somebody would put some depleted uranium in Craig Counsell's water.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-05-28 21:06:03
201.   Icaros
The daughters were noted for their raw milk!?!
2005-05-28 21:07:48
202.   DXMachina
#193, Is Sanchez charged with an error? If so, are the runs unearned, or would Terrero have been safe regardless?

Gameday's box score has it as a hit for Terrero, and an error (interference) for Sanchez.

2005-05-28 21:09:28
203.   Bob Timmermann
Vin has the reasons behind the rule correct. When the fences were 500 feet away, you had a good reason to throw your glove at the ball.

And since the rule says you get three bases, plus the ball is still in play and you can try to score, that has to be the reason.

This seems to be the relevant rule for officials scorers:
Award an error ... (f) When an umpire awards the batter or any runner or runners one or more bases because of interference or obstruction, charge the fielder who committed the interference or obstruction with one error, no matter how many bases the batter, or runner or runners, may be advanced. NOTE: Do not charge an error if obstruction does not change the play in the opinion of the scorer.

So the scorer thought Terrero would have been safe at first anyway.

2005-05-28 21:10:48
204.   Charlie Hustler
And the runs are earned...
2005-05-28 21:11:04
205.   Marty
The daughters were noted for their raw milk!?

I'll never tell!!

2005-05-28 21:12:27
206.   Icaros
You already did.
2005-05-28 21:13:32
207.   Bob Timmermann
My dad ran a drive-through dairy and he sold raw milk. Sometimes he brought it home to make his family drink. That was some weird looking stuff. The rest of us demanded pasteurized.
2005-05-28 21:13:37
208.   Marty
BTW: I added some grilled chicken from a few days ago and adobo sauce and the pozole is amazing!
2005-05-28 21:13:57
209.   franklin
a plug for FJT with Tracy wasting Saenz with two outs and the pitchers slot coming up next inning.
2005-05-28 21:14:07
210.   Charlie Hustler
Marty, were they doing artesian cheeses?
2005-05-28 21:15:47
211.   Marty
you mean artesan? I don't think so. But in the sixties, I don't think anyone knew about artesan cheeses....
2005-05-28 21:17:25
212.   franklin
thanks Milton
2005-05-28 21:18:11
213.   Bob Timmermann
I'd really hate to think of cheese that came out of an artesian well.
2005-05-28 21:18:18
214.   Jim Hitchcock
How can you have your pudding if you don't drink your milk?
2005-05-28 21:20:15
215.   Marty
214. Jim, what is that from? My mind spun it's wheels...
2005-05-28 21:20:45
216.   Bob Timmermann
Say goodnight, Troy.
2005-05-28 21:21:07
217.   Marty
Wait, it's Pink Floyd , right?
2005-05-28 21:21:19
218.   Bob Timmermann
214, 215
Pink Floyd "Another Brick in the Wall"
2005-05-28 21:25:15
219.   Marty
Man, is that a bad play. WHY do you have your highest avg. hitter bunt??
2005-05-28 21:25:43
220.   Jim Hitchcock
My favorite Pink Floyd story is where the giant
inflatable pig (from `Animals') broke from its mooring and shut down Heathrow Airport for an hour or so.

Would've loved to have heard the ATC radio traffic on that one.

2005-05-28 21:26:40
221.   Jon Weisman
I wouldn't have Izturis bunt there, more because of his double-play-preventing speed, than his average. But it's defensible in the ninth inning, and Izturis just has to get it down.
2005-05-28 21:28:28
222.   Xeifrank
Probably already been covered (just logged in), why do you sac bunt with one of your best hitters... especially with 2 strikes. Let Izturis hit dammit!!!



2005-05-28 21:30:17
223.   Mark Linsey
Jon, I agree with you for the start of the at bat. But when he bunts one foul and goes up there again with two strikes, should you really have him try again?
2005-05-28 21:30:25
224.   Marty
My feeling is the only reason to sacrafice (typically with a pitcher) is because the bunter is a bad hitter. If you have a good hitter up there, you let him swing.
2005-05-28 21:30:25
225.   Bob Timmermann
As Ewan McGregor said last night in the movie I saw, "I've got a bad feeling about this."
2005-05-28 21:30:26
226.   Christina
Checking in, way late - what a weird game so far.

Why was Glaus ejected?

2005-05-28 21:31:13
227.   Bob Timmermann
Glaus threw his bat and helmet after striking out and apparently said the magic word.
2005-05-28 21:31:53
228.   Steve
(storming up and down his living room)
2005-05-28 21:32:04
229.   Xeifrank
A story related to the throwing of a glove at a ball in play. Last year in my slow pitch softball league, one of our players creamed a ball between two of the outfielders that was going to roll and roll for a sure home run. The leftfielder threw his glove at the ball as it was going by and hit the ball. The umpire called a dead ball and awarded our hitter a triple. It would've been a sure homerun though. Next inning they hit a ball over our left center fielders head after catching up with the ball (a sure home run) our fielder took off his glove and threw it down at the ball that had stopped rolling. Ump didn't give the guy a triple. We had a good laugh in the dugout later.



2005-05-28 21:32:31
230.   Jon Weisman
223 - Well, like I said, I wouldn't. But if you want to bunt, it's about as easy to sacrifice with two strikes as it is to get a hit - even with the foul bunt rule.
2005-05-28 21:33:08
231.   Xeifrank
Izturis should've hit, it's a no brainer!



2005-05-28 21:33:32
232.   Xeifrank
wow! Clark misses a walk off by inches. Our bullpen (minus Gagne) sucks.



2005-05-28 21:34:09
233.   Christina
Thanks, Bob. Gameday is being even more useless than usual tonight.
2005-05-28 21:35:08
234.   DXMachina
Gameday is just now having Ledee come to the plate.
2005-05-28 21:35:23
235.   Bob Timmermann
This is one of those games where words aren't adequately describing the plays.
2005-05-28 21:35:27
236.   Nick Iyengar
Why isn't Gagne coming in? God I hate Jim Tracy sometimes.
2005-05-28 21:35:30
237.   Xeifrank
Late inning Dodger trivia:

Name the last Dodgers starting pitcher to finish in the top 3 of the Cy Young voting.



2005-05-28 21:36:19
238.   Xeifrank
Gagne isn't coming in because Tracy is a horses ass.



2005-05-28 21:36:51
239.   Xeifrank
Base runner was out of the basepath on the bunt. Umpire is a horses ass. :)



2005-05-28 21:37:15
240.   Bob Timmermann
Tracy is not going to win that argument.
2005-05-28 21:37:40
241.   Dodgerkid
Awesome, now we can get a double play more easily.
2005-05-28 21:37:47
242.   Xeifrank
Win expectancy is -23.32%



2005-05-28 21:38:03
243.   Xeifrank
Bring in a damm strike out pitcher Tracy.



2005-05-28 21:38:38
244.   Bob Timmermann
Terrero's position on the base paths didn't cause Kent to drop the ball. The rule is there to make it easier for the fielders to make throws and Carrara's throw was fine.
2005-05-28 21:38:39
245.   Johnson
Umm...bring in Gagne. Please?
2005-05-28 21:38:43
246.   Jim Hitchcock
Leave Carrera in, lose the game. It's really that simple.
2005-05-28 21:39:19
247.   jeongers
Gameday blitzing through the top of the ninth. Slowing down just in time for Carrara to blow the game. What a train wreck.
2005-05-28 21:39:34
248.   Christina
234 - and I kinda wish now that Gameday was still stuck on Ledee's AB.

Why is Gagne not in???

2005-05-28 21:39:36
249.   Bob Timmermann
We really need Eddie Murray to come up and bat for the DBacks and for Carrara to turn into Rod Beck.
2005-05-28 21:39:39
250.   Johnson
Seriously, leaving in Carrara is essentially conceding the game. Stupid.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-05-28 21:40:26
251.   Nick Iyengar
As I've asked so many times, why do we have Gagne on our team? This is beyond ridiculous.
2005-05-28 21:40:37
252.   Xeifrank
Summary of tonights loss:

A) Fire Jim Tracy.
B) Fire the first base umpire.



2005-05-28 21:40:57
253.   Xeifrank
Dodgers F-ed by the umps.



2005-05-28 21:41:13
254.   Mark Linsey
Lovely way to end the game.
2005-05-28 21:41:17
255.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, balls...
2005-05-28 21:41:50
256.   Johnson
That was an unrepentantly stupid loss.
2005-05-28 21:41:58
257.   Xeifrank
5 runs on 5 hits? A boatload of walks, a glove thrown at a ball, a HR by a pitcher, a baserunner running out of the basepath...



2005-05-28 21:42:15
258.   Im So Blue
Carrara is in the dugout, hopping mad at the umps...and who is trying to calm him down? Milton Bradley.
2005-05-28 21:42:16
259.   Benaiah
Unbelievable. Tracy should get the loss for putting in Gio at all. I knew we would lose when he came in, let alone when he had no outs and the bases loaded. Tracy, what is the point of having a closer if you don't give your team a chance to score?
2005-05-28 21:42:26
260.   adamclyde
am I crazy... or is gameday telling me we just lost the game on a WALK????????????????? new meaning to the term WALK off run...
2005-05-28 21:42:26
261.   jeongers
Draw and Quarter Jim Tracy.
2005-05-28 21:42:28
262.   Christina
Just the way I love to lose, by the winning run being walked in. (Assuming Gameday updated correctly.)


2005-05-28 21:42:54
263.   Dodgers Fan in NorCal
Not so sure about Ball 4. Ball 3 was definitely right down the pipe. A 2-2 count is much easier to work with, especially with that kind of pressure. I think GC had a point.

How great would three wins in a row at this point in the season have been?

2005-05-28 21:42:59
264.   Nick Iyengar
Well, it's official. I hate Jim Tracy.
2005-05-28 21:43:03
265.   Nagman
I would've rather seen a grand slam.
2005-05-28 21:43:06
266.   Dodgerkid
Someone (not me) should go back through every loss and see if Tracy could be blamed for it. If the number is higher than 10, then we should all advocate his firing.
2005-05-28 21:43:47
267.   Xeifrank
Doesn't matter if the runner didn't cause Kent to drop the ball. He ran out of the baseline... HE'S OUT!! Other runners go back to their original bases. Just takes Carrera a couple of more batters to lose the game for Jim Tracy.



2005-05-28 21:44:19
268.   Christina
266 - I wouldn't be surprised if Steve already has that info at his fingertips.
2005-05-28 21:44:51
269.   Marty
Oh well, but the Pozole is really good.

Seriously, I think Tracy wrote this game off anyway, what with the rookie throwing. I like the way he pitched. It's better than Erickson, so I'm encouraged.

2005-05-28 21:45:24
270.   Bob Timmermann
The call on the bunt by Terrero had to be made by the home plate umpire.
2005-05-28 21:46:06
271.   Nick Iyengar
Can anyone give me a reason for leaving Gio in? Or bringing him in while we had Gagne available?

I've never been this mad about a Dodger loss before.

We don't deserve to win anything until we have a competent manager. This is just unbelievable.

2005-05-28 21:46:20
272.   Xeifrank
Ok, so it was the home plate ump who f-ed us. Macht nichts.



2005-05-28 21:46:59
273.   Steve
Carrara is DFA material. Why this is not obvious is beyond me. Bring back Schmoll.

Jim Tracy has cost us more games than I can count. Every game Weaver starts post-120 pitches, for example.

2005-05-28 21:47:52
274.   Dodgers Fan in NorCal
271: Seriously; Gagne's worked a couple nights in a row, but he'd be far safer than anyone else we could have brought in, especially Gio.
2005-05-28 21:48:18
275.   Bob Timmermann
Well he's Rule 6.05's relevant part:
(k) In running the last half of the distance from home base to first base, while the ball is being fielded to first base, he runs outside (to the right of) the three foot line, or inside (to the left of) the foul line, and in the umpire's judgment in so doing interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base; except that he may run outside (to the right of) the three foot line or inside (to the left of) the foul line to avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball;

In the umpire's opinion, Terrero's position on the base path didn't affect Kent's ability to field the ball.

2005-05-28 21:48:24
276.   Xeifrank
Let's nominate a DT member like Steve to take over the managerial duties of the Dodgers. We need a change. I think most of us could do a better job, and the pay is probably pretty decent.



2005-05-28 21:48:27
277.   Jon Weisman
271 - Nick, you must be quite young.
2005-05-28 21:51:21
278.   Xeifrank

Thanks. Quit trying to calm me down with logic and reasoning. It's just not going to work. I'm too mad at this loss. :)



2005-05-28 21:51:36
279.   Im So Blue
275 - But doesn't running inside the baseline interfere with the fielder's throw to 1st?
2005-05-28 21:51:41
280.   Nick Iyengar
Jon, I'm still emotional because it happened five minutes ago and it was an awful loss, no two ways about it.

Still - I can't remember off-hand a game where it looked like we were doing our best to lose. This game looked like that.

2005-05-28 21:52:32
281.   Xeifrank
I have become uncomfortably num(sp?) at this loss.



2005-05-28 21:53:45
282.   Xeifrank

I would think it would, but the throw was very catchable.



2005-05-28 21:55:01
283.   Xeifrank
Tough loss, but look on the bright side. We have Jeff Weaver pitching tomorrow. Oh wait, never mind! Just another game that Gagne won't be pitching in.



2005-05-28 21:55:37
284.   heato
As horrifying as the umpires and game management were tonight, at least the Dodgers were able to get a (nearly) quality start from their pitcher. I am hoping the walks were a product of his first-game jitters. Drew hit the ball tonight. That's always pleasing. Given that the season is barely a quarter over, the Dodgers have a lot of time to make up the games on the Padres and the Diamondbacks. The D-backs were handed tonight's game and the Padres cannot remain this hot all season. They are due for a swoon equal to their surge.
2005-05-28 21:56:02
285.   Xeifrank
Meanwhile, the rookie 3bman for the other LA team is starting to crush the ball (another HR tonight).



2005-05-28 21:56:20
286.   Jon Weisman
It turned out to be a game we could have won, but the more likely result in this matchup - Derek Thompson vs. Javier Vasquez - would have been a blowout.
2005-05-28 21:58:06
287.   Xeifrank
Glad the team brought up one of our minor league pitchers for tonights game. Wouldn't mind seeing the lefty stick in the rotation. Cut loose Erickson, move Weaver to the pen, and bring up Billingsley too.

Anybody else of the opinion that our bullpen pretty much sucks?



2005-05-28 21:59:09
288.   Xeifrank
We were doomed by bad managing, a questionable call by the umps and the Grabowski Principle (Vaz HR).



2005-05-28 22:01:19
289.   Christina
287 - well, it is somewhat relative. I follow the As too, and I'll take the Dodgers' bullpen and ability to score with RISP any day.
2005-05-28 22:01:27
290.   Xeifrank
The rookie lefty needs to by pops a new camera. The disposeable camera won't cut it.



2005-05-28 22:02:26
291.   Nick Iyengar
No offense, but the more likely result of this matchup is irrelevant. I have to say: we should have, not could have, won this game. Saying we shouldn't have won this game based on the SP matchup is very similar to saying "at least he's better than Erickson," in my opinion.

Consider the things we did to blow it:

1. Duaner's one-in-a-million stunt with the glove.
2. Giving up a HR to Vazquez.
3. Not getting a bunt down from the leadoff hitter.
4. Next guy GIDP.
5. Bringing Carrara in.
6. Leaving Carrara in with runners on base, while Gagne sits.

I've even left things out, I'm sure.

I guess you can say #s 1-4 "just happen" sometimes. But #5-6 are entirely Tracy's fault. Losing this game is Tracy's fault. This is becoming a trend.

2005-05-28 22:02:40
292.   Xeifrank
Looking at the replay of the Kent error, it did look like Kent flinched with the runner running out of the baseline.

Bad call imho.



2005-05-28 22:04:20
293.   Steve
Becoming a trend?
2005-05-28 22:04:53
294.   Xeifrank

re #3. It's of my opinion that Izturis NEVER should've been bunting. He is our best hitter and he's fast, so he's not too likely to hit into a DP. Werth's at bat following Izturis was pretty pathetic though. So it might not have mattered???



2005-05-28 22:06:16
295.   Xeifrank
Steve, what are you doing the rest of the season. We have a mission for you. It may be dangerous. We need you to replace Jim Tracy as manager of the Dodgers. This post will self destruct in 10 seconds.



2005-05-28 22:07:02
296.   Xeifrank
It's going to take atleast a third hundredth post before I even think about calming down. :)



2005-05-28 22:07:48
297.   Benaiah
Our bullpen is in the toilet. Yhency/Gagne is still a nasty combo. But Houlton, Erickson and Gio all have negative value and Wunsch and Duaner are inconsistant. Erickson and Gio need to be sent to the glue factory. Bring back Schmoll.
2005-05-28 22:09:08
298.   Nick Iyengar

I agree Izzy shouldn't have been bunting. Add that to the list of Tracy's mistakes, assuming he called for the bunt.

But, if the bunt is on, you have to get it down.

Sorry for being so negative about this game. I still can't believe it.

2005-05-28 22:09:37
299.   Xeifrank
Brazoban hasn't been much to sneeze at of late either. But atleast your stomach doesn't feel sick when he comes into pitch.



2005-05-28 22:10:18
300.   Mark
The game was lost when Duaner invoked the Grabowski Principle by throwing his glove. Absolutely unreal. You will never again see that in your lives.

Thompson's WHIP is 1.20. Not bad for a game with such a weird strike zone being called by the umps.

Anyone think that Tracy has a mandate from DePodesta to keep Gagne out of bleak situations, in order to keep his value up?

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-05-28 22:12:58
301.   Xeifrank

Yes, it's Tracy's fault for having Izturis bunting, and Izturis' fault for not getting it down. To compound an already bad decision, he still had him bunting with two strikes. As soon as Izturis came up, I said don't bunt, don't have him bunt Tracy, oh well. I know you are playing for one run, but it's your best hitter. It's very likely he will get a single or maybe more, and move the lead runner to 2nd or 3rd. If he gets out, oh well atleast you have two more outs to score with.



2005-05-28 22:13:35
302.   Nick Iyengar
I don't know how much support this idea will have, but after tonight, I think a renaming of the Grabowski Principle might just be in order.

The Sanchez Principle? The Tracy Principle?

2005-05-28 22:14:19
303.   Xeifrank
I hope Jim Tracy wakes up to a pink slip tomorrow. Wish him all the best, but not as our manager anymore please.



2005-05-28 22:14:49
304.   Jon Weisman
Not that I oversee it, but I think the Grabowski Principle is being misused.

Steve's principle states, in a nutshell, that the pitcher is removed after making the inexcusable pitch. I don't think throwing the glove at the ball qualifies - and Sanchez was removed after giving up the HR to the pitcher.

Regarding #300 - last paragraph - if anything, the opposite. I bet DePo would rather see Gagne in there than Carrara with the game on the line.

2005-05-28 22:15:10
305.   Xeifrank
The Tracy Principle? I don't think any of us can count that high. :)



2005-05-28 22:17:06
306.   Xeifrank
Having Jim Tracy as manager of the Dodgers seems to go against everything that DePodesta stands for. Why is he putting up with Tracy? He either needs to have sit down talk with Tracy, or fire his "Gagne misusing a-ss".



2005-05-28 22:17:56
307.   Mark
My understanding is that the Grabowski Principle is for more general "heinous events", from

Game on the line, Gagne comes in and gives up the loss, lowers his value at the trading deadline, no?

2005-05-28 22:18:09
308.   Nick Iyengar
I just feel bad naming it after Grabby. Besides just generally not being any good, he's never done anything this bad, has he? (Remind me if I'm forgetting something).
2005-05-28 22:19:11
309.   Xeifrank

Using that logic, Jim Tracy doesn't have a shred of trade value. :)



2005-05-28 22:21:09
310.   Nick Iyengar
I agree w/ Mark re: 300 & 307.

Putting Gagne into situations in which he has a comfortable cushion, and only has to get 3 outs = gaudy stats for Eric.

This is off topic but we need to go back to the old save rule. Coming in to a 3-run game and getting 3 outs should not earn you a "save."

2005-05-28 22:21:29
311.   jeongers
Keep the Grabowski Principle. We can have multiple corollaries and addendums to the rule as the needs arise, but when the Grabowski Principle is invoked five or ten years from now, it'll bring a smile to those of us who were there when it was first coined. Which will quickly turn into a frown when it's Jim Tracy that's violated it again.
2005-05-28 22:21:40
312.   Xeifrank
Hawkins traded to the Giants for a starting pitcher? Damm, you mean the Cubs wouldn't go for Erickson or Weaver?



2005-05-28 22:22:45
313.   heato
First, if Tracy actually did get fired (not likely), who do you think would be a good replacement?

Second, Tracy has zero confidence in Erickson. Why are they allowing him to take up a spot in the bullpen when he will never see the mound unless the Dodgers are up by ten? I know people have stated this time and time again, but what is the reason for keeping him on the roster?

2005-05-28 22:23:18
314.   Xeifrank

haha! Nice post. The Grabowski Principle will go down with famous measurements like The Mendoza Line.



2005-05-28 22:23:18
315.   Steve
I agree with Jon. This is more The Fire Jim Tracy Principle than the Grabowski Principle. Though Carrara is at this point a walking Grabowski Principle, and I didn't see Sanchez pitch to Vazquez, but that might have been a career Grabowski Principle. What sort of miserable pitch do you have to throw to have Javier Vazquez homer off of you?
2005-05-28 22:23:59
316.   Nick Iyengar
Cubs made out like bandits. Williams obviously can compete in the majors, and Aardsma is the real deal. Future closer material -- he was lights-out at Rice a little while back.
2005-05-28 22:24:48
317.   Xeifrank

Steve would be a good replacement. If he's busy my neighbors dog has plenty of time on his hands.

Why is Erickson still on the roster? Got me on that one. Maybe Tracy has a crush on him?



2005-05-28 22:25:24
318.   heato
Anyone think that Giants fans will be cursing the "Williams/Aardsma(?) for Hawkins" trade in a couple of years?
2005-05-28 22:26:57
319.   Nick Iyengar
Chris Bootcheck earns the save in the Anaheim Angels' 14-1 drubbing of Kansas City.

Again: we need to adjust the save rule!

2005-05-28 22:27:31
320.   Nick Iyengar


2005-05-28 22:28:12
321.   Jon Weisman
307 - Are you assuming Gagne would give up the run?
2005-05-28 22:28:19
322.   Xeifrank
They sent Aardsma too? Holy cow! Dumb!



2005-05-28 22:30:37
323.   jeongers
OT: Anyone notice the headline for the Red Sox-Yankees result on "Record rout gets Boston off Matt"

I get the pun, but doesn't it also sound like all the Red Sox players stopped having their way with Clement in some bizarre ritual to stop their losing streak?

2005-05-28 22:30:45
324.   Nick Iyengar
I propose a homework assignment for DT readers. Come up with one legitimately good reason for each of the following:

1. Keeping Erickson on the team.

2. Letting Carrara pitch the 9th tonight (especially after getting into trouble).

3. Keeping Tracy as our manager.

2005-05-28 22:31:20
325.   Xeifrank
With bases loaded an no outs your best chance of getting out of the inning is getting the first batter to strike out. Why have Carrara in there? If not Gagne, atleast bring in Yhency. Chances are we lose anyways, but leaving Carrara in there is like punting on the last play of a football game when you have the ball at midfield. Sure, it's going to take a hell mary to win the game, but atleast try it.



2005-05-28 22:32:36
326.   Xeifrank

It would be easier to prove the earth is flat.



2005-05-28 22:34:47
327.   heato
324: If I could work miracles like that, I would start every game for the rest of the season and throw complete game shutouts.
2005-05-28 22:38:28
328.   jeongers

1. Erickson seems to do okay the first time through a lineup, so he might make a decent middle relief guy. I'm just going through the motions here, though.

2. Only a Sophist would attempt this.

3. Decent track record. Apparently outperforms his Pythagorean record. Some immunity for making the playoffs last year. Excellent penmanship on his lineup cards.

2005-05-28 22:38:31
329.   Nick Iyengar
Let's hope tomorrow will be better. Given our scheduled starter, it's hard to be optimisti, though.
2005-05-28 22:40:11
330.   Mark
321- Starting out the inning, no, you can't assume that he gives up the run. But he doesn't have the ability to get the save, either, and closers stats have been so weighted against wins and for saves...

I think the market, seeing Gagne at, let's say 3-1 with 20 saves, versus 0-1 with 25 saves, would value him higher in the latter case.

2005-05-28 22:41:58
331.   Bob Timmermann
in a couple of years, I think Giants fans will look back at that trade like Dodger fans do about the Mike Trombley/Geronimo Gil trade.
2005-05-28 22:45:25
332.   Mark
324, this is easy.

1. Lisa G.

2. Tracy expected to lose this game, and wanted to conserve Gagne for getting Weaver the win tomorrow (which would build up Weaver's confidence).

3. Until the Dodgers are more than 10 games out of first place, I don't think you can shake up management. Tracy has had a modicum of success in the past, luck or no, so I just don't see yanking him this early in the season.

2005-05-28 22:45:36
333.   Jon Weisman
I don't think DePodesta would suggest a strategy, Mark, that would undercut our chances of winning for so small a gain in trade value. Plus, if Gagne gets the W as opposed to the DNP, that only helps both causes.
2005-05-28 22:46:04
334.   heato
What really sucks about tonight's loss is that Plaschke will use it to lament the loss of Cora.
2005-05-28 22:51:31
335.   Xeifrank
Cora would've got the bunt down. Probably such a good bunt it would've moved the runner over to third base.



2005-05-28 22:52:49
336.   Mark
I'm not so sure, Jon. Gagne is just back in the rotation, he just earned his first save last night. I could see a bit of pressure to A) keep him fresh, and B) keep him out of potentially value-diminishing situations. After all, you can't assume that Carrara would lose the game, either. He may not be the best available pitcher for the ninth, but again, if the heat is on from upper management...
2005-05-28 22:53:19
337.   Nick Iyengar

Cora would have made the catch on the bunt play.

2005-05-28 22:53:21
338.   Mark
"rotation" means "bullpen" above, obviously.
2005-05-28 22:54:43
339.   Xeifrank
Even with the poor umpring in tonights game, I think the officiating in the NBA is much worse. Umpiring is a tough job, I can cut the umps some slack for missing some balls and strikes or missing a bang bang play on a force out. But when it comes to something as obvious as the base runner running out of the base line and interfering with Kent's catching/seeing/concentrating on the ball, then I have to draw a line in the sand. I'll let you know when I figure what all that means. I'm going to bed.



2005-05-28 22:57:48
340.   Xeifrank
Gagne would not have gotten the loss or a blown save if he came in to pitch with the bases loaded in the 9th tonight. It's ridiculous to think a manager or GM would keep a pitcher out of a game because of hurting his trade value, if he were to incur a loss or blown save. Next thing you know we will have people saying that the reason that Choi isn't hitting against lefties is that management doesn't want to hurt his trade value by having Choi lower his batting average from hitting against lefties.



2005-05-28 22:59:35
341.   Bob Timmermann
For those keeping score at home, Terrero was given a triple in the end on Sanchez's gaffe.
2005-05-28 23:03:44
342.   Mark
340, I think the discussion is around Gagne starting the ninth instead of Carrara. By the time the bases were loaded with 0 out, the game was already over.

Assuming that you get Gagne up and moving to warm up at the first sign of trouble (the double to center), he still won't be ready at the very least until two batters later. Two batters after the double, the bases were loaded with 0 out. That's a no win situation, to me.

The real debate is why Carrara pitches the ninth at all. Again, maybe Tracy is trying to conserve/rest Gagne, maybe he's trying to just put him in for save opps because of whatever reason, I don't think we'll ever know.

2005-05-28 23:04:02
343.   Xeifrank
What happens if and outfielder throws his glove up in the air and prevents a home run? Is the batter given a triple? Or a homerun?



2005-05-28 23:05:27
344.   Xeifrank
I don't think you can ever say a 4-4 game is over! Even with bases loaded and no outs. When we miss the playoffs by one game...



2005-05-28 23:14:29
345.   Bob Timmermann
The batter is given a minimum of three bases if a fielder throws his glove at a ball and hits it. If the ball goes over the fence, it's a home run. Also if the ball gets knocked back into the field of play, the batter can try to score.

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