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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

May 30 Open Chat: Little Things That Might Mean a Lot, Or Not
2005-05-30 09:26
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Today's game

* * *

Overwhelming popularity in the Dodger clubhouse hasn't been the goal of this website, but that doesn't mean that this story about Batgirl isn't supercool. Congrats to her. (Thanks to Baseball Primer for the link.)

* * *

T-Shirt Update: Three snags in the fabric.

1) The presence of another website, Beyond the Boxscore, has me rethinking the idea of using "Think Outside the Box Score" as a slogan. It's not exactly the same, but is it worth coming that close when there are other options available?

2) No one has stepped up to be the designer yet.

3) Overwhelmed by the worst cold and cough of my life and crushing freelance work, I haven't been able to attend to these problems. (This also explains why posting has been light of late.)

But we'll get there ...

* * *

Here's one quick Dodger note: By allowing Arizona to score a run in the bottom of the ninth Sunday, the Dodgers extended their streak of allowing opponents three runs or more to 23 consecutive games. (They have allowed four or more runs in 20 of those 23 games.)

In contrast, in their first 26 games this season, the Dodgers held opponents below three runs seven times.

Comments (190)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-05-30 09:50:21
1.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps this will make Jon (and our collective pysches) feel better:
Random Dodger game callback

May 30, 1959

A Memorial Day crowd of just 22,692 at the Memorial Coliseum saw the Dodgers rally to beat St. Louis 7-6 behind solo home runs from rookie Ron Fairly and veteran Gil Hodges. The win put the Dodgers over the .500 mark at 24-23 and in fourth place 5 ½ games behind Milwaukee.

The Dodgers broke out to a 2-0 lead when Jim Gilliam drove in 2 runs with a bases loaded single off of Cardinal starter Tom Cheney, but the Cardinals came back with 3 of their own on a 2 RBI triple by Joe Cunningham, who would score on an error by Dodger shortstop Bob Lillis.

Third baseman Don Zimmer put the Dodgers back ahead in the fifth against reliever Ernie Broglio with a 2-run triple. Duke Snider homered to make it 5-3 in the seventh.

Dodger starter Johnny Podres gave up a run in the 8th on two walks and a pinch single by Stan Musial and Clem Labine came in to relieve.

In the 9th, Gino Cimoli doubled and Ken Boyer (called Moyer in the paper) then hit a drive to center that Snider dove for and missed. The ball rolled to the fence in the expansive part of the Coliseum and Cimoli and Boyer circled the bases to put St. Louis ahead 6-5.

Fairly led off the 9th against reliever Howie Nunn and homered to left to tie the game. Cardinals manager Solly Hemus then brought in Lindy McDaniel, who retired Snider, but gave up a home run to Hodges to center field to end the game. The home run represented Hodges 1,000th career run.

1959 would be a special year in Los Angeles. It would be the first year the city could call itself the champion of baseball as the Dodgers prevailed in a wacky pennant race, winning seven of nine games down the stretch (front running San Francisco lost 7 of 9 over the same stretch), defeating Milwaukee in a playoff 2 games to none to win the pennant and then defeating the Chicago White Sox in the World Series in 6 games as relief pitcher Larry Sherry won two games and saved two others.

The Dodgers went just 88-68 in the regular season, one of the worst winning percentages of a World Series winner. The offensive attack was decidedly not one typical of its time. Maury Wills was called up from the minors to provide some offense at shortstop as both Lillis and Zimmer were essentially useless at the plate. Second baseman Charlie Neal was an unexpected source of offense batting .287 with 19 homers. Left fielder Wally Moon also hit 19 homers while batting .302. Snider hit 23 homers and batted .308, but injuries limited him to 126 games. The hidden key to the Dodgers offense in 1959 was walks. The team led the NL with 591 walks (Gilliam led the league with 96). The next best team had 499 walks. The walks allowed a team with a meager .252 batting average to sport a .332.OBP, second in the league. The 2005 Dodgers are on pace for about 562 walks and the LA record is 668 set in 2000.

Don Drysdale anchored the Dodgers pitching staff going 17-13 with a 3.46 ERA and led the league in strikeouts with 242. Podres went 14-9 with a 4.11 ERA and spot starter Roger Craig finished 11-5 with a 2.06 ERA.

And an inconsistent left-hander named Sandy Koufax, who would go just 8-6 with a 4.05 ERA, turned in one of the best pitching performances many people had ever seen. On August 31 before a crowd of over 80,000 at the Coliseum, Koufax fanned 18 Giants batters in a 5-2 win. Koufax tied Bob Feller's single game mark and bested his own personal best of 16 set earlier in the year.

Two other rookies besides Fairly made their debuts, albeit brief, in 1959, who would later go on to greater things: Frank Howard and Tommy Davis.

Thanks to the LA Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

2005-05-30 09:54:45
2.   Brian Y
FOR THE T-SHIRTS:

I would suggest using www.cafepress.com for the T-Shirts when they are designed. It's a site where you put your own design on the type of shirt you want (you can make various types) and set a price for us to buy it. It's no cost to you and gets sent out by the website so anyone can buy however many they want.

2005-05-30 10:18:23
3.   Marc Normandin
Hey Jon,

This is Marc from Beyond the Boxscore...sorry about the slogan, ha. I happened to make Cafe Press t-shirts as well for BtB. Cafepress is a good deal because you can sell shirts for the bare minimum to get your name out rather than trying to make money.

2005-05-30 10:46:11
4.   Bob Timmermann
Mr. Normandin,
I represent the heirs of Leonardo da Vinci, I demand that you pay his estate a sum of $1 billion for the use of his drawing.

We expect to hear from you soon.

(OK fellas, let's go talk to the Sigorsky Helicopter people for patent infringement.)

2005-05-30 11:17:22
5.   Bob Timmermann
Being bored, I'm watching Florida play in Pittsburgh.

It's a veritable Dodger Alumni game.

Daryle Ward and David Ross in the lineup for Pittsburgh.

The Marlins aren't starting Lo Duca today (slump and bad hand), but he's available along with Guillermo Mota and Lenny Harris.

Ross doubled in Ward for Pittsburgh's first run.

2005-05-30 11:22:05
6.   Brian Y
I'm curious as to the line-up for today's game. I wonder if Tracy will move Choi back to the 2 slot or if Antonio Perez will bat there. I am hoping he leaves Werth there but we are kind of weak behind Kent regardless so maybe Perez will bat 5th since he's hot right now. Possibly even 3rd with Drew moving to 5. Who knows, but it should be interesting.
2005-05-30 11:37:05
7.   Bob Timmermann
Any lineup decision will be predicated on whether or not Bradley can play today.
2005-05-30 11:50:17
8.   Brian Y
yeah, I just think Milton needs a day off and this is perfect timing.
2005-05-30 11:55:55
9.   Johnson
Here's what I find interesting off the bat:

Wilson Alvarez is starting for us, yet he's 4 years younger than the opposing starter, the 39-yr-old Maddux.

Since allowing three hits and striking out 10 in a scoreless 6 2/3 on May 10, Maddux has allowed 24 hits and 12 earned with only 7 Ks in his last three outings.

In his last four outings, Drew has been looking up, going 5-11 with 5 BB for an OBP of .625. In those four games the Dodgers have collectively drawn 17 walks, averaging over 5 per game when the opposing pitcher isn't named Javier Vazquez. Maddux, however, walks only one every six innings, so the Dodgers will need to rely on putting the ball in play.

Speaking of putting the ball in play, Perez has been quite good this year in that regard. In the last four games, he's 11-15 with 2 BBs and no Ks. In fact Perez has only struck out three times all year in 38 PA. 2 of those Ks came in pinch-hitting appearances, one in his first PA of the year, and one in his first PA after returning from the DL. This kid is making contact and they are falling in.

2005-05-30 12:03:35
10.   Linkmeister
My family had just moved to LA (San Pedro) in 1959. As a nine-year-old, I was immediately hooked on baseball and the Dodgers, and it's (obviously) never faded.

Nice game recap, Bob.

2005-05-30 12:12:12
11.   Bob Timmermann
Thanks.

Tomorrow will be an interesting game, but a bad year. Actually it's a doubleheader.

1992 will turn up later in the week. Ugh.

2005-05-30 12:24:42
12.   GoBears
I'll be in the Top Deck tonight - Section 7 - representin' Team Depo. 3rd Row, so at least the beach ballers won't be blocking my view.
2005-05-30 12:25:47
13.   Bob Timmermann
I will be in Field Level, Section 46, Row Z. I will likely have my view obstructed by the new video board.
2005-05-30 12:44:01
14.   GoBears
Dodger.com poll today asks who is the team's best defensive outfielder: Bradley, Drew, Ledee, or Werth. With ~4200 votes, it's Drew in a landslide, with Bradley in last place. Now, Drew is very good, and I can see an argument for him over Bradley, but Ledee is terrible, and Werth is just average, as far as I can tell. Unless the voters are taking the injury into account. Still, even hurt, Bradley's gotta be better than Ledee.
2005-05-30 12:49:37
15.   GoBears
Hey folks, anyone hear any further news on Bradley's injury? Last night, AP reported that it was a sprained finger and that X-rays were negative, but there's no mention that I can find on Dodgers.com.
2005-05-30 13:04:15
16.   JSN
Daily News said that he won't play today and will get an MRI to check for ligament damage. He said he can flex it but it's fairly sore.
2005-05-30 13:12:05
17.   molokai
FYI-for those who just love baseball the replay of the LA City High School Championship game between Chatsworth/El Camino Real is on right now on KLCS channel 12 in the Time Warner area. This game was played Saturday at Dodger Stadium.
2005-05-30 13:20:07
18.   bokonon42
17- Just flipped it on. Who decided not to let the fans in attendance sit in the precious blue seats?
2005-05-30 13:36:16
19.   Jim Hitchcock
Jon, hope the doc loaded you up on Cherrytussin (codeine cough syrup). These days you have to ask for it, but it really helps.
2005-05-30 13:59:01
20.   Eric L
I'm not sure that Ledee is terrible as an outfielder. I think he is more along the lines of average. At least his UZR (for the stuff I could find) wasn't negative.

In other news, I just got back from Phoenix (actually, late last night). Caught all 3 games and the boys in blue shoulda swept 'em!

Sunday's game was great (well the game wasn't exactly great). By sheer luck yesterday, we were able to score seats behind the Dodger dugout.

2005-05-30 14:12:45
21.   GoBears
I'm not sure that Ledee is terrible as an outfielder. I think he is more along the lines of average. At least his UZR (for the stuff I could find) wasn't negative.

Fair enough. I guess I meant relative to the other choices. The only guy who has been out there and has seemed inferior defensively to Ledee is Grabowski. Werth's arm is weak, but he seems to have much more speed and get better jumps than Ledee. And I think Drew and Bradley are both much better than average, even excluding all LFs.

Not that any of this matters - just a way to kill time before heading to the Ravine.

2005-05-30 14:16:43
22.   Eric L
Don't get me wrong, I agree (at least based on my perception) that Ledee is the weakest of the 4 outfielders.
2005-05-30 14:22:05
23.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume then that Edwards is the fifth outfielder now.
2005-05-30 15:37:31
24.   jtshoe
I just voted in the poll on dodgers.com. I think the reason Bradley is so far behind is that there's something wrong with the program. When I voted for Bradley, it showed me the results and said at the bottom that my vote was for Drew.
2005-05-30 15:46:00
25.   Sam DC
Does BB Tonight have a segment called "Beyond the Boxscore"? I saw this once a few days ago, but rarely watch the show and don't know if it's a regular feature.
2005-05-30 16:34:30
26.   JSN
Where is X. We need an over/under...so that I can take the over.
2005-05-30 16:39:14
27.   Jon Weisman
Anyone know why Choi isn't in the lineup tonight?
2005-05-30 16:47:58
28.   Johnson
#27 Jon
Let's see...Maddux is a soft-throwing righty, so Choi should be all over him, right? Yahoo says Choi is 0-6 career against Maddux (apparently with one HBP, because he has a .143 OBP but no BB). That's hardly bad enough to warrant a benching.
2005-05-30 16:53:54
29.   Marty
Jon, the only thing I can think of is Choi hasn't looked good at the plate the last few days and Tracy wants to give him "rest".
2005-05-30 16:54:20
30.   regfairfield
I would say that Choi isn't starting so that Saenz can be put in a position to succeed.

Or Jim Tracy hates Hee Seop, and will do anything to keep him out of the lineup, even bat someone with a carrer OPS of less than .700 against righties because he's hot.

2005-05-30 16:56:24
31.   JSN
What is even more confusing is that I can't find a record of Saenz ever facing Maddux so it's not like he has his number or something.
2005-05-30 17:00:38
32.   Steve
You can't blame Tracy for starting Saenz against the right-hander. Grabowski's still on the DL.
2005-05-30 17:03:26
33.   regfairfield
At best, Saenz is 1 for 1 against Maddux. Retrosheet doesn't say what inning he came into the game, but I doubt he actually faced Maddux.
2005-05-30 17:04:51
34.   Steve
Maybe Lt. Drebin warned Tracy not to start Choi because his life was in danger.
2005-05-30 17:10:39
35.   Marty
Every time some event has a jet fly over before the start, they fly over my house while they wait. The B2 on New Year's day is always fun to see fly over.
2005-05-30 17:11:35
36.   JSN
ARE YOU KIDDING ME
2005-05-30 17:11:54
37.   JSN
We might be cursed....
2005-05-30 17:11:58
38.   Marty
So much for the hitter's not being able to see at this time of day.
2005-05-30 17:13:02
39.   regfairfield
Well, that was career home run number 27 for Jerry Hairston.
2005-05-30 17:14:31
40.   bokonon42
They don't have to see it; it's right down the middle of the plate. Muscle memory can do the job, all by itself.
2005-05-30 17:16:20
41.   Dodgerkid
This is a big game. It is the last start of Wilson Alvarez's career.
2005-05-30 17:17:29
42.   bokonon42
41- oh?
2005-05-30 17:20:40
43.   Slipstream
"Think outside the boxscore" is (obviously) a play on "think outside the box" whereas "beyond the boxscore" is just what it says. Therefore, I wouldn't worry about using it, it's clearly original.

Just like "Dodger blog with relish" was also clever. I think you should trademark both.

2005-05-30 17:21:59
44.   Marty
Nice, JD. And he didn't hurt himself.
2005-05-30 17:22:42
45.   regfairfield
That could have been a lot worse.
2005-05-30 17:24:26
46.   Steve
Alvarez = LOOGY bait. Leading off with a Grabowski Principle Home Run is embarrassing. Mahomes it is.
2005-05-30 17:25:09
47.   Marty
Pleeze don't try to steal Cesar!
2005-05-30 17:25:45
48.   Marty
Unless you make it :)
2005-05-30 17:25:51
49.   bokonon42
Lucky break. Izzy got no jump.
2005-05-30 17:26:11
50.   regfairfield
Sigh.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-05-30 17:30:32
51.   Jim Hitchcock
So, Marty, did Iever tell you the bomb load of a B-2?
2005-05-30 17:33:13
52.   Marty
Why no Jim, you didn't
2005-05-30 17:34:40
53.   Jim Hitchcock
Probably better you don't know :)
2005-05-30 17:36:18
54.   Marty
But that makes me think of the thread a few months ago about who is what Cheers character. I think we are all Clavens on this bus.
2005-05-30 17:36:56
55.   Steve
How do you get that kind of jump on a left-handed pitcher? I guess this is apt for Memorial Day, since we can all take a moment to remember how Carrara, Alvarez, and Weaver pitched last year.
2005-05-30 17:40:15
56.   Jim Hitchcock
That was really a "Wilson-go to your room!" moment...
2005-05-30 17:43:00
57.   Marty
I have a bad feeling about this. We may be seeing Erickson before too long.
2005-05-30 17:43:06
58.   Jim Hitchcock
Well on our way to seeing Erickson today.
2005-05-30 17:43:52
59.   bokonon42
Hey, he's getting better. Instead of giving Hairston an HR, this time he just walked him. Next time, maybe he can get a groundout, out of him. Things are starting to look up!
2005-05-30 17:45:24
60.   jeongers
Quite the tightrope Wilson's walking tonight.
2005-05-30 17:45:34
61.   bokonon42
See? I predict 22 consecutive Ks to finish the game
2005-05-30 17:57:30
62.   Nick Iyengar
Why isn't Choi playing?
2005-05-30 18:02:36
63.   jeongers
No idea why Choi isn't playing. I'm really getting sick of Tracy jerking him around like this. If he's playing Saenz because he's hot, I'm wondering why Choi wasn't getting more playing time when he was hot. At this point, Tracy's just being obstinate.
2005-05-30 18:03:14
64.   Marty
Vinnies telling some story about Mark Lemke. That reminds me that my brother hated the Braves and Lemke in particular. I get the Braves hatred, but I really don't know why he picked on Lemke.
2005-05-30 18:03:57
65.   JSN
I figured out why Choi isn't playing. According to dodgers.com he has a stiff left forearm.
2005-05-30 18:07:33
66.   Linkmeister
Even before Vinnie went into that paean to Maddux, I gotta say he's one of the pitchers I most enjoy watching. When the Braves had Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz it was a wonder they ever lost.
2005-05-30 18:07:50
67.   Nick Iyengar
Let's get someone up in the bullpen -- now.
2005-05-30 18:07:52
68.   jeongers
65: That takes some of the air out of my ranting. So Occam's Razor isn't always correct (in this case, Tracy's an idiot).
2005-05-30 18:09:34
69.   Steve
Why can't Alvarez or Erickson get a stiff left forearm? And a right one.
2005-05-30 18:09:34
70.   LAT
Mop-up time. Anyone think Maddux is going to surrender 4 runs. Nice to be back home. Can only hope Mil. is on thier game tonight.
2005-05-30 18:09:40
71.   Nick Iyengar
See?
2005-05-30 18:09:50
72.   JSN
I think the argument could be made that the combination of homeruns and who they were to given up by Alvarez equal a Grabowski Principle?
2005-05-30 18:11:22
73.   Steve
He led off the game invoking the Grabowski Principle. All the rest of this is simply the fruits of the Grabowski Principle.
2005-05-30 18:12:08
74.   LAT
I know Alverez is not a ground ball pitcher, but does every hit have to be to the deep outfield
2005-05-30 18:12:56
75.   jeongers
I liked watching Maddux pitch, but I absolutely could not stand Glavine. He would've been nothing if he didn't get that outside strike called for him all the time. It would drive me nuts watching a pitch about a foot outside get called a strike just because it was knee-high and hit the catcher's target.

On the other hand, watching the Braves get eliminated by that ridiculous strike zone Livan got in the NLCS was particularly satisfying, especially when they were complaining about it post game.

2005-05-30 18:13:18
76.   LAT
OK finally an infield out.
2005-05-30 18:13:28
77.   Nick Iyengar
Hariston and Barrett today, Chris Snyder and Javy Vazquez the other day. We're letting bad players beat us these days. It'd be one thing if Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez were beating us...does anyone else think our pitchers are generally lacking in mental focus? I think Weaver is in particular, but I can't get over the way bad players are torching us. Maybe it's just coincidence.
2005-05-30 18:13:54
78.   Linkmeister
Now c'mon. Maddux at this age is not the Maddux who won 3 Cy Youngs in a row in the early 90s. He's hittable.
2005-05-30 18:14:53
79.   JSN
Ok Steve got it. I wasn't sure if the first HR was actually the principle or just close. The second then, was just Proffessor Alvarez trying to drive the point of the principle across to his class (us) in a way they could understand. Little did he know we are exceptional students and already understood.
2005-05-30 18:15:33
80.   Jim Hitchcock
There's that `Yankees Suck' chant again.
2005-05-30 18:19:35
81.   Steve
77 -- I think bad players are torching us because our players are bad.

79 -- It was close; not an obvious GP like Scot Shields walking Willie Harris to lead off the ninth today in the Angel game. But a leadoff homerun to Jerry Hairston in Dodger Stadium? I suppose someone could argue that if we're going to give up three a game, it might as well be to Jerry Hairston, but I still have my principles.

2005-05-30 18:20:34
82.   Daniel B
Patterson needs a new glove.
2005-05-30 18:20:53
83.   LAT
I'll take it but for anyone other than Sanez thats a triple or IPHR.
2005-05-30 18:20:56
84.   Dodgerkid
I think we know now why Saenz gets playing time.
2005-05-30 18:20:59
85.   Steve
I should say our pitchers are bad. There goes Olmedo mocking us again for our disbelief. :)
2005-05-30 18:21:23
86.   Jim Hitchcock
Bum play by the CF.
2005-05-30 18:23:04
87.   Nick Iyengar
Bad inning for Corey Patterson. Bradley would have made those plays, I'd say.
2005-05-30 18:24:35
88.   LAT
I knoe Maddux is a GREAT pitch but I am getting tired of how enamored Vin is. Enough already.
2005-05-30 18:24:40
89.   jeongers
Okay, go Olmedo. Tracy's a genius . . .
2005-05-30 18:24:55
90.   Nick Iyengar
Houlton in the 'pen apparently. Uh-oh.
2005-05-30 18:30:21
91.   Daniel B
Wilson forgot that his Batting Practice rehab stints were over. The Cubs are more than happy to comply.
2005-05-30 18:30:34
92.   Nick Iyengar
Ugh. Wilson needs to go back to the pen. I wonder where the Dodgers stand in terms of most HR allowd in the NL.
2005-05-30 18:31:23
93.   Daniel B
Oh God. Erickson in the Pen. Im getting physically ill.
2005-05-30 18:31:39
94.   Nick Iyengar
Erickson joins Houlton in the 'pen. Who thought it would come to this? The bullpen was supposed to be our strength!
2005-05-30 18:32:32
95.   jeongers
Good Lord, is that three tonight?
2005-05-30 18:33:08
96.   Nick Iyengar
We can do better. Bring up Schmoll and Mahomes, send down or release Erickson/Houlton.
2005-05-30 18:36:18
97.   Daniel B
Is Tracy conceding the game? I can't see why Alverez lasted this ling when every ball was hit hard. I could see if a few were just falling in, but hes being hammered. And now by getting Erickson/Houlton up?

On second thought, I cant think of anyone else to put in. I agree with 96. Bring up Schmoll and Mahomes/Jackson. I never got nervous when Schmoll was coming in.

2005-05-30 18:36:37
98.   Steve
We might not do better but we can at least do different. The automatic L thing is just depressing.
2005-05-30 18:39:46
99.   LAT
nice time for Werth to go deep.
2005-05-30 18:40:58
100.   LAT
never mind
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-05-30 18:44:23
101.   Daniel B
Just realized Aramis is a triple away from the Cycle. Against Erickson hes got a realistic shot. right?
2005-05-30 18:44:36
102.   Nick Iyengar
Oh boy, here we go. Maybe Erickson can get us three sneaky outs.
2005-05-30 18:45:30
103.   Nick Iyengar
Maddux might get a homer here. Chicks dig the longball.
2005-05-30 18:45:45
104.   LAT
I predict the worst for Erickson tonight: That is he will pitch enough that Tracy will want to use him in a situation when it really matters.
2005-05-30 18:46:52
105.   LAT
That was supposed to say "well enough"
2005-05-30 18:48:40
106.   Nick Iyengar
Erickson got lucky on that pitch to Hairston...that could have been hammered. This guy can't be pulled soon enough.
2005-05-30 18:50:02
107.   Nick Iyengar
#104: Yeah, anything that moves Tracy to want to start Erickson again is the worst thing that could possibly happen to this team. This inning probably wasn't in the best long-term interest of the Dodgers.
2005-05-30 18:51:58
108.   Steve
We've got problems, but just about now Oakland is probably wishing they had never let Tampa Bay into the league.
2005-05-30 18:55:11
109.   Steve
Since Alvarez is terrible, and Thompson is sticking in his spot for now, I would vote for Houlton. How long can we keep him around on the roster if he's going to have a 10 ERA? One start for all the marbles.
2005-05-30 18:55:22
110.   LAT
In the middle of center field they should let the players beat the crap out of the guy who ran on the filed to deter others.
2005-05-30 18:57:22
111.   Steve
110 -- they should make him pitch long relief for the Dodgers. That will shame him.
2005-05-30 18:57:32
112.   LAT
Vin says 67 percent of the teams in first place on Memorial day go on to the play-offs. Not a good stat for a team in 3rd place.
2005-05-30 18:58:36
113.   LAT
111--yes but he could wind up with a job.
2005-05-30 19:00:53
114.   bokonon42
112- Granted, but if you had to pick one first place team in the NL not to make the play-offs, wouldn't you pick the Padres?
2005-05-30 19:02:10
115.   Dodgerkid
114--at this point no.
2005-05-30 19:04:39
116.   Nick Iyengar
A strikeout! Against a legitimately good hitter! Hopefully Jim Tracy isn't getting thoughts of putting Erickson back into the rotation.
2005-05-30 19:05:51
117.   Daniel B
Oh baby. Its Cub's bullpen time. Lets get some runs!!
2005-05-30 19:06:38
118.   LAT
There we go, that's more like the Erikson we know
2005-05-30 19:06:57
119.   Nick Iyengar
I don't have a good feeling about Erickson vs. Burnitz...
2005-05-30 19:07:15
120.   Steve
114 -- At this point, that would be whoever the current incumbent is in the National League East. The West looks like the Padres and the Four Dwarves.
2005-05-30 19:08:04
121.   Daniel B
Whats with Vinny and telling the grandkids? Didnt he say something last year like "David Ross can tell the grandkids that he once pinch hit for Shawn Green." ? Is he being sarcastic?
2005-05-30 19:11:08
122.   LAT
No more talk of Ross, I'm still trying to get over #5 "Ross doubled in Ward for Pittsburgh's first run." Makes me nervous that Burnitz will hurt us before the night is over.
2005-05-30 19:11:39
123.   bokonon42
Florida is at the top of the NL East. I think Florida is practically a lock. St. Louis even more so. So San Diego may look better than the Dodgers right now, but if I had to pick one first placed team to not make it, San Diego would be it.
2005-05-30 19:12:25
124.   Marty
Well, if we don't get close here, it's dinner time for me. The menu tonight is pretty basic. Some grilled chicken and steamed artichokes. Chokes are from my garden, so that gives me some satisfaction.
2005-05-30 19:14:46
125.   LAT
Marty after you steam the chokes, cut them in half, brush them with olive oil and toss them on the grill for about 10-15 mins with the chicken. They're great that way
2005-05-30 19:16:14
126.   LAT
Beltre 0-1 pops out first time up.
2005-05-30 19:16:51
127.   Marty
Ooh. I was planning on just steaming with some butter/lemon sauce but that sounds good. I'll do that. I've braised them before and that turned out well, but its really a colder weather dish.
2005-05-30 19:17:27
128.   Daniel B
I think once they stop running that Izturis/Robinson/Wills commercial, Izturis will have more luck stealing. Its like bad luck or something.
2005-05-30 19:17:40
129.   Langhorne
There are a couple of off days in June, so we may only need a fifth starter once. We'll need one this Saturday but not again until June 19. Dessens and/or Perez may be back by the then. This assumes that Thompson is effective and doesn't have to be replaced. Then we can worry about Elmer and Odalis. And, of course, there's still Weaver.
2005-05-30 19:18:03
130.   LAT
You can never go wrong with the lemon and butter either.
2005-05-30 19:18:53
131.   jeongers
Hmmm, I would have double switched there so that we wouldn't have to pinch hit for Duaner next inning. Bring Navarro in and let him leadoff in the pitcher's slot.
2005-05-30 19:20:29
132.   Jim Hitchcock
44,255...including Bob T, who looks to go 1-4 after today.
2005-05-30 19:24:04
133.   LAT
You gotta love a guy who sprints to first on a walk
2005-05-30 19:24:11
134.   Daniel B
With the top of the line-up, this inning is pretty much do or die.
2005-05-30 19:25:37
135.   bokonon42
Time for a sac bunt. . .
2005-05-30 19:25:50
136.   Jim Hitchcock
Now would be the time, Jayson.
2005-05-30 19:26:01
137.   Langhorne
Okay, nobody swing.
2005-05-30 19:27:20
138.   regfairfield
Grabowski Principle should be in full effect here. 99.2% chance of a Werth home run.
2005-05-30 19:28:13
139.   LAT
132--I was going to make a crack about keeping Bob from the ballpark, but then I went and looked and I am 3-7 so maybe I should stay home
2005-05-30 19:28:40
140.   bokonon42
I was premature. Now that there are two strikes, it's bunting time.
2005-05-30 19:28:49
141.   Sam DC
Just checking in now that kids are sleepin'. I feel compelled to express outrage on Sufering Bruin's behalf re #54. Your point's well taken, Marty, but SB long ago laid down the law -- There Can Be Only One!
2005-05-30 19:28:51
142.   LAT
Whatever happens. . . No DP!!!!
2005-05-30 19:29:08
143.   LAT
I suck
2005-05-30 19:29:43
144.   Daniel B
Is there some reason Dodger Fans are standing and clapping? Are they happy about Robles moving to thrid?
2005-05-30 19:31:30
145.   LAT
Brewers have bases loaded with one out.
2005-05-30 19:31:46
146.   regfairfield
The wave probably made it out of the pavillion.
2005-05-30 19:33:40
147.   Steve
In fairness to Werth, the 1-1 pitch was way low, and the umpire called it a strike. It forced him to chase everything at his shoetops, hence the double play. Rather than broken bats, Vinny should be counting umpire screwups. They must not be in a contract year.
2005-05-30 19:34:19
148.   Daniel B
This is absolutely ridiculous. Unbelievable that they cant score a run off Todd Welemeyer and the Cubs bullpen.

On the bright side, great effort from the Dodgers bullpen today. So far...

2005-05-30 19:34:21
149.   LAT
Mil fails to score.
2005-05-30 19:40:17
150.   jeongers
Whoa, way to go, bullpen . . .
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-05-30 19:40:34
151.   LAT
SD 1 and 2 with no outs
2005-05-30 19:41:00
152.   Daniel B
Bullpen:
4 IP
1 BB
1 K
0 Run

Works for me. If only the bats would wake up...

2005-05-30 19:41:44
153.   Langhorne
Yeah, five hits ain't gonna get it done.
2005-05-30 19:43:00
154.   LAT
153--Scary part is 1 k was Erikson
2005-05-30 19:44:03
155.   Steve
How many nights are they supposed to score 6 and 7 runs? The pitching staff needs to be looked at holistically. It doesn't matter who's giving up the five runs a game -- the fact is that nothing is going to change unless the Team ERA falls below five. Hence, nothing is going to change regardless of how weak our offense is perceived to be.
2005-05-30 19:45:37
156.   Jim Hitchcock
It's true...pitching is everything. And we ain't got it.
2005-05-30 19:46:04
157.   Daniel B
Can Olmedo pitch?
2005-05-30 19:48:39
158.   LAT
Mil gets out of it. 0-0
2005-05-30 19:49:15
159.   Daniel B
This team looks at strikes more than any team I can remember.
2005-05-30 19:50:30
160.   jeongers
Ugh . . .
2005-05-30 19:50:53
161.   Daniel B
Ridiculous. Off a hurting Cub pitching staff. 6 Hits? SIX!! Just disgusting.
2005-05-30 19:54:44
162.   Steve
161 -- having watched the game, and virtually the whole season, I can guarantee you that there are thousands and thousands of Cubs fans that are saying:

"Ridiculous. Off a pathetic Dodger pitching staff. 10 hits? TEN!!! Just disgusting."

And they would be justified.

2005-05-30 19:57:55
163.   Daniel B
162--Steve, its not MY fault that the Pitching sucks. I agree with you.
2005-05-30 19:59:01
164.   LAT
Mil 1-0 (I'm a poor man's Bob T.)
2005-05-30 20:02:13
165.   Steve
No, no. I know. I am just afraid that when the stories are written about this season in the history books, they will not be told correctly. Heck, Ryne Sandberg thinks Russ Ortiz is helping the Diamondbacks.
2005-05-30 20:03:44
166.   LAT
Beltre cannot get a break. He hits a hard line drive up the middle (sure base hit) except the ball hits the pitcher and rolls gently right to the 1B for an out. Sexton follows with upper deck HR.
2005-05-30 20:11:17
167.   Langhorne
The best pitching staff in the NL gives up 3.38 runs a game. If that was our staff we still would've lost tonight. Our pitching is bad. Our offense is good. Therefore, the burden for carrying the team this year falls on the offense. It isn't fair but who ever said baseball was fair.
2005-05-30 20:19:42
168.   Daniel B
Steve, Im just focusing on the offense right now, because I feel that theres something that can be done on that front. JT really needs to mix something up. Theyt're getting guys on base, but they either end up a) caught stealing, b) double play or c) play station to station and leave a ton of guys on base. It sounds ridiculous, but why not let Drew lead off, followed by Izturis, Kent, Bradley, Olmedo/Choi, Werth, perez, Phillips. I realize that that poorly utilizes Drew's power, but right now he isnt hiting for much power. Izturis is hitting the ball, can bunt occasionally, and his speed will keep him out of a lot of DPs. Im really sick of Trace marching out basically the same line-up, getting the same result.

Steve, I choose not to complain about the pitching because there is so little that can be done. The pitchers arent very good. We just simply dont have good pitching this year.

I really think that Jackson, Loney, etc. are best served as trade bait so that we can land a decent, consistant starter.

2005-05-30 20:20:52
169.   Bob Timmermann
Yep, I'm 1-4. And I might be going Saturday for the game against the Brewers. I think I'm a curse. Jason Ellison has put a hex on me for my good fortune on Opening Day. Heck, I even went to an Angels game this year and they got shut out by Kevin Millwood!

There were a lot of Cubs fans in my section. A lot. But everyone was well-behaved where I was.

Except for the guy who ran on the field. What an idiot.

I went with my girlfriend and the son of her friend's. He was a big Cubs fan so somebody went home happy.

2005-05-30 20:23:44
170.   Steve
Well the best staff in the NL would either give up 3 runs or 4 on any given night, not 3.38. :) If it had been three, it would have been a tie.

But the burden that the offense has been asked to carry is impossible. No one believes that the Dodgers can win with a staff ERA near five. They were fortunate tonight to get two scoreless out of Erickson and another out of Houlton -- the score might as well have been 12-3.

The season is over. We're not just sampling and we're not just waiting until we have enough games to count. Fifty games. We know this staff can't hack it. And we know that other teams know that we're over a barrel, and fixing it will decimate the minors.

Screw it. Wait 'til next year.

2005-05-30 20:36:14
171.   Steve
I don't think leaving those guys on base is a problem per se. Bob and others have pointed out that very good offense leave lots of guys on base because they get lots of guys on base.

I'm extremely openminded (heck, I think Gagne should be starting) -- Drew can lead off as well as anyone else. But the lineup tweaks are not going to have the effect you desire, which is to win games. Our sole goal now is to be patient enough that McCourt doesn't fire DePodesta and bring in Kevin Malone the Second, who then turns around and signs Jeff Weaver to a $55 million contract and trades Chad Billingsley for Dan Kolb.

2005-05-30 20:41:37
172.   Daniel B
They may not have the effects I desire, but were never gonna know unless Tracy steps up and makes some changes.
2005-05-30 20:43:39
173.   LAT
Overman must hate the Dodgers. 2E in back to back plays results in Sd run.
2005-05-30 20:50:53
174.   LAT
"Our sole goal now is to be patient enough that McCourt doesn't fire DePodesta and bring in Kevin Malone the Second."

That was supposed to be funny, right Steve. There are alot of things to worry about but Frank hiring a free wheeling, power hungry, long contract signing, spender ain't one of them.

2005-05-30 20:51:19
175.   Nick Iyengar
#170: When it comes to baseball, I'm about as pessimistic as they come, but even I'm not ready to call it quits on the Dodgers this year. We're only a few games out of the division lead, and there are over 100 games left to play. We have every opportunity to climb back into the playoff picture.

That being said, there are fundamental problems that DePo has to address. We have a 2.5 man rotation (sometimes Weaver shows up). Outside of Penny and Lowe, nobody's been good. Odalis has been shaky even when he's healthy, and it looks like he'll be out for quite a while yet. Wilson obviously can't hack it in the rotation, and neither can Erickson.

And it's not like help is on the way. Anxiously waiting for the return of Elmer Dessens is not my idea of a good time. Edwin Jackson, supposedly our prime prospect, is in a funk. This kid Thompson had one OK start, but there's no indication that he's going to take the league by storm and lock up a spot in the rotation.

Based on this, I think the solution for our pitching woes lies outside the organization. I think we need to deal a prospect or two to reel in some legitimate pitching. Barry Zito springs to mind, because of the DePo-Beane connection. He's still got good stuff, even though his numbers aren't nearly what they used to be. He's an innings-eater and has never been on the DL (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think it's smart for any organization to cling to prospects for fear of "mortgaging the future." Prospects are called prospects for a reason: they have the potential to be MLB material. So if you can trade potential MLB material (Edwin Jackson and someone else) for proven MLB material (Zito or anyone else we might trade for), I'd be in favor of it, assuming it makes sense financially, etc. When we traded that guy Franklin Gutierrez for Milton Bradley, some people complained that we traded away our best (at the time) hitting prospect. But are we regretting that deal now? I don't think so.

Therefore, I think the Dodgers need to do whatever they can to stay competitive until trading season, then make some moves. The hitting has been better than I expected (maybe I'm still scarred by 2003). With some upgrades to the pitching, I think this team can do some damage in October. I'm hoping DePo will keep his boldness and not be afraid to take flak like he did last year. We're one or two dynamic moves from being serious contenders.

This was long-winded, sorry.

2005-05-30 20:59:58
176.   Steve
174 -- I think that's what I fear, since a second Kevin Malone would have no money. It would be even worse. It would be like...having Brian Sabean. Ewwww...

175 -- Between Weaver and Zito...

Zito's ERA = 4.85. I just know I'm asking for a bunch of nonsense about park factors and DIPS and DER, but how is he going to bring our team ERA back from the precipice of 5? Remember, if it was so easy to have a team ERA of 5, more teams would be doing it -- not just Cincinnati and us.

2005-05-30 21:02:03
177.   GoBears
Bob T - don't despair yet. Your bad luck may be over-determined by my presence also. I'm 0-3, including today, and I was at that Millwood game in Anaheim too. I also note that I'm 0-5 or 0-6 when wearing the Team Depo shirt. Forget the lineup. I think I'm the one who needs to change things up.

Today, Ledee, Perez, and Werth were all lousy. Phillips too. So the offense stalled. I would have like to watch Maddux on TV. On the stadium gun, he would throw 6 84MPH fastballs in a row. If he wasn't changing speeds to confuse the hitters, it must have been location and movement - stuff you can't see from the top deck. Whatever it was, he was clearly better than our hitters.

2005-05-30 21:03:50
178.   Bob Timmermann
From fanball.com

News
Dodgers first baseman Hee Seop Choi did not start Monday's game against the Cubs because of an injury to his left forearm. Olmedo Saenz received the start in his place.

Views
The injury doesn't appear to be anything serious and Choi was reportedly available for pinch hitting duty if called upon. We'll update the injury as more information becomes available, but he may be ready to go as soon as Tuesday.

2005-05-30 21:08:00
179.   LAT
176--OK Steve now you have my attention. Brain Sabean!!! Yuk. I used to think he was a genius but his moves in the last few years have been terrible. He is Phil Jackson (or Riensdorf, I guess). Successful with the best player in the game. We are getting a clearer picture this year. Moreover, Sabean's bad moves are not what he has obtained but what he has given away.
2005-05-30 21:19:51
180.   Daniel B
If Im not mistaken, AJ Burnett is in his contract year. Hes a pretty solid arm. Jamie Moyer will also a free agent. As will Tom Glavine. Im not sure if Jeff Suppan's option has been picked up, but hes also a potential free agent. I think these are some guys who wont cost TOO much, could be had for some prospects and money. And these are all guys i think might be able to help out this year.
2005-05-30 21:33:13
181.   Eric L
re 176 -

If I'm not mistaken, the DIPS and DER crowd isn't exactly high on Zito either.

2005-05-30 21:37:53
182.   Eric L
oops.. missed this one..

re: 179

Please note that this is all taken from memory, but Sabean has been pretty good at trading his overrated prospects for "help us right now" type of talent.

IIRC, someone (probably Steve Treder or one his Giants cronies) at BTF took a look at his trades and the only guy who has really been an above average player is Keith Foulke. (again, from memory).

Sabean may lose talent because of his fetish for signing older free agents and losing draft picks, but he has been alright when it comes to trading prospects.

2005-05-30 21:43:20
183.   Eric L
Dang it.. Sabean also traded Joe Nathan for Pyrzinksksiskdki...
2005-05-30 21:45:25
184.   Bob Timmermann
`I'm hurting the team. The way I'm pitching right now, I don't deserve to start again,'' Alvarez said. ``I'm throwing the ball over the plate, but the location's poor. Everything's like right down the middle. I don't have the stuff to blow people away. That's why I'm giving up those home runs. If I'm not making my pitches, I'm not going to get people out.''
2005-05-30 22:29:57
185.   LAT
It was the Nathan for AJ trade I was thinking of. Don't recall what they got for Levan but whatever it was the Expos/Nats were glad to give it up. (Levon 8-2, I think) Don't recall what they gave up for Sidney Ponson but that was a flop. Don't know what they gave up for Ricky Ledee but that didn't work out either.

I'm sure every GM has a string of bad trades. I am just saying he is not the genius he is made out to be and may in fact be below average.

2005-05-30 22:34:05
186.   GoBears
Not only was HSC available for pinch-hitting duties - he actually did pinch hit. Lined out on the first pitch. Hit it hard, but right at the LFer.

Saenz did fine. If Tracy had known that today would be the day that Perez would fall to Earth, he could have put OS at 3rd and HSC at 1st. But you can't fault him for riding Perez's .500 BA as long as possible.

I was more concerned with his leaving Alvarez in there so long, and replacing him with Erickson. Erickson did OK, but I got vertigo up there in the top deck.

BTW, folks were very well-behaved up there today too. Only 1 beach ball that I saw, and it didn't last long. No jerks. I think I'll stay away from promotions from now on - fleece blanket night was the one bad experience.

2005-05-30 22:41:59
187.   Daniel B
yeah, the last few games Ive been at, people have been much better behaved. Much less beachballs. Although the last night game I was at, their were some killer moths that attacked us. They were like kamikaze moths, nosediving right onto us. My hat, shirt, my score book, the lady in front of me, the guy next to me. I know moths are harmless, but Ive never seen such gigantic ones.
2005-05-30 22:53:53
188.   LAT
The Padres are in the zone. Top nine SD error puts Brewer on 3rd with one out. Next play base running error--runner erased. Bottom 9, 2 out, Padres score from 1B on double. They look like a team that does not think they can lose. We used to look like that at 12-2 but now we know better. Hopefully, the Pods will find that out too--sooner rather than later.
2005-05-31 00:21:04
189.   Jim Hitchcock
Were the Brooklyn uniforms made of wool? That could account for the Giant Killer Kamikaze Moths of Chavez Ravine.
2005-05-31 02:39:20
190.   Louis in SF
The starting pitching issues as many have said for the past few weeks are the problems and waiting for Elmer Dessens to return as another post says is an indication of how bad things are right now.

Zito would be interesting but doubt the A's would trade him now considering their starting pitching problems as well as hitting-the Dodgers would have to do a 3 way. AJ Burnett, Tom Glavine and Jamie Moyer are doubtful because Florida and the Mets are still very much and will proably be all year in the race for either wild card or the division. Moyer might be the best possibility, but given his age, I doubt if the Dodgers would go for him.

Whomever it is my only thought is we do it now rather than wait for the end of June or July-the Padre express is moving faster than most have anticipated.

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