Anyone wondering if Tracy is doing a good or bad job, needs to look no further than above.

Great job, Jon.

Going by nothing more than that chart, Erickson is the natural pick to relieve on 6/7, Jon. You need to add in ERA or WHIP, something that weights the pitchers. Of course, then Wunsch isn't the automatic relief, either.

I suppose, Mark, but I'm making the assumption that people know, or will know by the time they finish reading the post, that Erickson is the worst pitcher on the staff. The idea is not for people to read the chart but not read the post.

Indeed. It would be nice if Tracy turned to Wunsch more often, since regardless of the LOOGY title, he's probably the 4th best pitcher in our bullpen. I am pleasantly surprised that Tracy isn't riding Brazoban into the ground, based on what he did to Mota the last couple years. In 2003, Mota threw 105 innings and 1578 pitches. In 2004, Mota threw 63 innings with the Dodgers and 1064 pitches (and only threw 33.2 innings the rest of the year with the Marlins). For reference, Gagne threw 82.1 innings both years with 1189 pitches in 2003 and 1268 pitches in 2004. Unfortunately, it looks like he's using Sanchez as his whipping boy instead. Sanchez is leading the bullpen in relief innings pitched and pitches thrown (33.1 and 506), which projects to 93 innings and 1413 pitches this year. Even though Wunsch has the most appearances on the team (34), he's only pitched 17.1 innings and thrown 280 pitches.

This is the big picture analysis that I think Tracy doesn't (can't?) comprehend. Going game by game, Tracy decisions are scrutinized but can be sometimes explained away. But looking at a block of games, and seeing what effect his mismanagement of his bullpen as a collective whole does, you really have to wonder if this guy has any clue what he's doing.

#4 - But aren't middle relievers extremely replaceable? Isn't it more worthwile to ride an effective reliever hard for a year or two, and then put him out to pasture as opposed to underusing them with their long term future in mind?

I have a feeling that Paul Quantrill will be available soon. He can make a 2004-Carraraesque return to the Dodgers!

I would think with Erickson, not only is he bad, but when you use him infrequently, he probably is worse.

The post sort of contradicts the chart, no? Take away the 6/7 column. Duaner has 89 pitches in four appearances. Giovanni has 78 pitches in four appearances. Yhency has 46 phitches in three appearances. Gagne has 57 pitches in three appearances. Erickson has 0 pitches in 0 appearances.

I'm not trying to apologize for JT's decisions, but to me, the resulting chart says "put in Erickson and hope he can get 3 outs in the sixth, then put in Carrara/Wunsch and hope he gets 3 outs in the seventh, then Yhency in the eighth, and Gagne in the ninth." Things just didn't go according to plan.

#6: I don't appreciate managers who ruin a player's career with the idea of making it someone else's problem (i.e. Dusty Baker). More importantly, studies have shown there are short term performance implications to being overworked.

#8: That's true if your management style is "everybody plays", but you're ignoring the fact that Erickson shouldn't ever be pitching let alone on the roster. Just because DePodesta has made a mistake by leaving him there, doesn't mean Tracy has to do his best to rub it in.

What's Steve Avery's pitch count this week?

With both Penny and Weaver being free-agents this off-season, and the Dodgers negotiating with only Penny for an extension, I wonder how this will affect the fragile ego of Weaver.

It can't feel that great to watch another teamate be pursued by management while they basically ignore you.

#10- In your case, where we completely ignore Erickson, the next logical choice then is Wunsch or Sanchez in the sixth, Carrara in the seventh, Yhency in the eighth, and Gagne in the ninth (and pray the Tigers don't tie it up).

I don't think it's necessarily a problem of underworking Brazoban and Gagne, I just think that the guys who are supposed to get the ball to G(h)ame Over really, really suck as of late. And I mean all of them. Wunsch's last 7 day WHIP has been horrible.

#9 - I'm not saying to ruin someone's career, but shouldn't Brazoban have thrown at leaset as many pitches as Carrara or Sanchez?

There's a middle ground between running someone into the ground, and using them extensively yet effectively.

I think Weaver would know well enough that if he keeps pitching poorly, he's not going to get a contract for any place other than the Western League.

12: should it matter, though? It's a contract year for him. Let him pitch like it.

How many hours does DePodesta have left, Steve? I'm sure you realize that DePodesta is probably waiting for any one of Alvarez, Dessens, or Perez to come off the DL before DFA'ing Erickson. If one of those relievers returns and Erickson doesn't go, then we should be very afraid.

9 -
This is more than likely the decision of Boras and not Dodger management. Boras very much likes to test the FA market with his clients and doesn't really like to negotiate extensions. Penny's entension is all but signed (3 years / 26 m). Whos would risk giving Weaver anything at this point anyway? (And I'm sure Boras knows this)

sorry. 12 - not 9-

Mark, I'm not going to try to talk you out of your interpretation beyond this message, but using your logic, I should have pitched the sixth inning, because I've thrown even fewer pitches than Erickson. I think you're being too literal. The post backs up the chart.

I suspect that my brief fling with Paul DePodesta will be over as of midnight. Ten hours, 55 minutes.

If Weaver gets an extension, restraining orders will be in order. Me from him, and him from the Dodgers.

So Steve, you're going by midnight your time and not midnight DePodesta's time?

#13: Agreed. I would have rather seen some combination of Wunsch and Carrara in the 6th, Brazoban and Sanchez in the 7th, Brazoban in the 8th and Gagne in the 9th. Brazoban hadn't pitched for a few days, so I think he could have easily been called on for a couple innings.

As far as Wunsch's 7-day WHIP, he's faced 3 batters, gotten 2 outs and allowed 1 single, which subsequently scored when Carrara gave up the 3-run blast to Hall (a WHIP of 1.50). If you extend the range to 8 days, his WHIP goes down to 1.00. Either way, 3 or 4 batters seems like a small number to be evaluating.

And just to back up the final item in the post above - the Dodgers replaced the DL'd Ledee with our friend Grabowski. This basically necessitates another bench player, instead of yet another reliever.

Why wait for one of the injured players to come back before dumping Erickson? Why not release him in favor of a Cody Ross-type?

That is correct. Midnight MST/11:00 PST. Grabowski hangs around and now he's back. Erickson hangs around just long enough to blow another game. Enough.

"Him" in 21 means DePodesta, not Weaver. Weaver is just another loaded gun left on the table.

#14: Hey db, I think we're on the same page. I first thought you were suggesting that the Dodgers over-usage of Sanchez was reasonable, which I would disagree with. But, I agree that Brazoban can be used a little more often and a lot more effectively.

Weaver won't get an extension.

#24: The 9 players on our 40-man roster who are not on the 25-man roster or on the DL:

Joel Hanrahan RHP in Jacksonville
Edwin Jackson RHP in Las Vegas
Ryan Ketchner LHP (hasn't pitched this year)
Steve Schmoll RHP in Last Vegas
Russell Martin RH-C in Jacksonville
Dioner Navarro S-C in Las Vegas
Willy Aybar S-2B/3B in Las Vegas
Delwyn Young S-2B/DH in Jacksonville
Cody Ross R-OF in Las Vegas

Any of them could contribute by eliminating Erickson from the roster. Unfortunately, by virtue of being on the roster, it means that Tracy would play them (either in important pitching situations or batting 2nd in the lineup). Thus, I think Cody Ross would probably be the best call, since he would be behind Scrappy in the depth chart. Schmoll might also be alright, though he hasn't been pitching that well for Las Vegas.

#26 - Yeah, I think so too. My point is, I don't think we should be coddling our best relievers (especially "8th inning" guys) in favor of our 3rd and 4th string guys.

Or dump Erickson and put no one on the roster.

#28 - Who DOES pitch well in Vegas, besides 35 year old journeymen?

#27: If the following three (unlikely) events occur together, I could see the Dodgers signing Weaver:

1) The Dodgers are unable to trade for a starting pitcher, or the one they trade for is not signed beyond this season.

2) Weaver pitches well for the remainder of the season.

3) The Dodgers are not able to obtain anyone better in the offseason, which may not be a stretch considering the projected pitching market is extremely poor.

Certainly, if he does get resigned, it would be for significantly less than he's playing for now. Additionally, I don't think there's any chance we'd resign him before the offseason.

32 - That doesn't contradict what I'm saying in 27. Anything after the season ends is a new contract, not an extension. My comment addressed the discussion of a contract extension going to Penny but not Weaver. I agree with your comments in 32.

#28: I figured that was coming :). Franquelis Osoria is the only guy on the team I would have categorized as pitching well in Las Vegas. Mahomes is doing alright, but his peripherals aren't great (6.01 K/9, 1.57 K/BB, and 1.02 HR/9).

#30: Of the choices provided, this would be my preference. Leave the space open and if there's a desperate need (bullpen gets blown through in a 20-inning marathon), then bring someone up.

If Erickson isn't going to pitch for nine days, then come in only when he can do the maximum damage to the team possible, how does it help for us to have "12 pitchers"? You have 11 pitchers and a white flag. Stupid.

DePodesta, I'm going to start calling you "Harvard Boy" if you can't get your head out of your #&#.

Okay, then the followup question is this-- let's assume that Weaver goes 5 innings today, and we're faced with the same spot, ahead by 2 runs. Who do we put up there in the sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth?

Or, worst case scenario, Weaver gets knocked out in the top of the fourth. Who do you throw up there for long relief, to go 4-5-6?

Houlton.

37,
The answer to this question can be found in the wisdom of the movie "Speed".

In your scenario, I would just shoot the hostage.

Or Doug Drabek.

Because of the off days, you have a rested Houlton, Wunsch, Brazoban, Gagne and Osoria available tonight. If you can't get by with those five relievers, your game is a lost cause anyway.

Jack Morris looked pretty healthy last night, maybe he could give us a couple of innings.

#38: Houlton just started on Saturday, so he's only had a three day rest. Also, I think he's still being considered for the start on Sunday. Thus, Tracy will likely only use him if Weaver implodes in the first couple innings. I don't think it's a good thing, but I expect Tracy to have an especially slow hook with Weaver tonight. He'll go at least 6 innings, unless he pulls a Paul Wilson. Overall, as Jon said, if Osoria, Wunsch, Brazoban, and Gagne can't get it done, the game is likely not winnable.

I could be wrong, but doesn't releasing Erickson open up a spot on the 40-man roster, meaning we could call up anyone in our system? I'd like to see Mahomes get some long-relief work / spot-start duty, he used to be a good pitcher back in the day and he has thrown well in Vegas.

#43 - Houlton is technically the #5 starter right now, yes?

If so, the Dodgers can afford to skip the 5th slot the next time or two, making Houlton available.

I think, also, Houlton was being volunteered in #38 as being worst case scenario.

Speaking of pitching... mark your calendars, Luke Hochevar will be pitching on national TV Friday afternoon. He'll be starting the first super regional game vs. Georgia Tech, 1 p.m. PDT on ESPN2.

I proposed this trade on the Dodgers board, and was wondering if you guys thought it was feasible and worthwhile...

Dodgers get: P- Roy Oswalt
SS- Adam Everett

Astros get: SS- Cesar Izturis
3b- Joel Guzman
1b- James Loney (houston native)
C- Russell Martin

I dont want to include the catcher, but I think we'd have to inclue 2 "A" prospects along with Izturis to get Oswalt.

Thoughts?

#44: It would open up a roster slot once Erickson clears waivers, which seems like it can take a few days or more. By that point, we may have someone else coming off the DL.

#47 - Adam Everett?

Why not just get a couple dozen baseballs instead of Everett?

I feel 47 would make the short list of worst trades in franchise history.

Houston really values Adam Everett. I don't think they would look at Izturis being an upgrade (if that's what we are trying to do by swapping SS's). I think the trade still looks the same if you drop the ss's.

#47: Are you just trying to irritate Plaschke? Don't you realize it's Izturis' team? We can't trade the unofficially proclaimed team leader!

In all seriousness, I think it's extremely imbalanced towards the Astros. Izturis may already be the best SS in the NL, and he's only 25 years old. Additionally, he's signed through 2008 at 2.35 (2005), 3.10 (2006), 4.15 (2007), and a 5.40 (2008 option). Roy Oswalt is approaching free agency after 2006 and is signed at 11 million for next year. While I'd like to have an ace starter, I think all things considered Izturis is the more valuable of the two.

Adam Everett at 28 is basically a replacement level shortstop who likely peaked last year. The good news is he's still under arbitration for a couple more years, but Antonio Perez could very well outperform him at a lower price.

Joel Guzman is one of the top 10 prospects in the game. He's garnered comparisons to Miguel Cabrera and Juan Gonzalez. Russell Martin is a great defensive catcher who looks to be developing some power to go along with his outstanding batting eye. James Loney is slumping, but still has a lot of potential considering he's only 21 years old.

#50: That's exactly what I was thinking, but I decided to use a lot more words :)

This seems like a good thread to share my favorite quote from the pride of La Verne College (now the University of La Verne).

"A manager uses a relief pitcher like a six shooter, he fires until it's empty then takes the gun and throws it at the villan."

-Dan Quisenberry-

A derivation on the Cody Ross strategy of roster management would be call up the guy Tracy would be least likely to use (if there is such a person). Answer to that trivia question:

Joel Hanrahan.

Today's Fact of Choi?

http://www.startlearningnow.com/CHOI-FM.htm

#54

I picture Felipe Alou trying this right now.

But he's more like a guy who has a bunch of pop guns that shoot small caliber bullets and he's hoping that he finally hits somebody in the heart.

Billy Beane had that theory: you spend the first third of the season figuring out what you have, the second third getting the team you want, and the last third going for it.

I think there's a lot of experimentation going on here, figuring out who fits in and where. I don't mind the Dodgers dropping a game like last night, especially when Erickson didn't actually lose the game. Blow the lead, yes, but there was still baseball to be played and they were still in it.

But why not give an experienced pitcher the chance to see if he has anything left at all? Alvarez moved the bullpen successfully. Gagne benefitted from not having to pace himself through 6 innings. Lima reestablished himself out of the bullpen. It's not inconceivable that Erickson could be useful as a reliever if he has the stuff but not the stamina.

P.S. James Loney has been slumping for about three years now, hasn't he? I don't think it's a slump anymore.

52- I think Oswalt is more valuable than Cesar Izturis. But we can disagree. Its cool.
I just think that true #1 aces are so few, that it would take a strong package to get him. I'm of the belief you have to play to win right now and the near future. I dont worry about 2007.

Oswalt, Penny, Lowe, Perez in the rotation doesnt look bad.

Also 52-- I only propose taking back Everett as nice insurance should Antonio/Valentin struggle at SS during the stretch run.

Everett would be sort of like a real cheap Charles Johnson type replacement.. Similar to the Loduca trade last year.

Trading a heart and soul guy for a #1 pitcher is a good trade in my book.

"Mr. DePodesta, David Cone on Line 2."

"Put him on hold. I'm talking to Bret Saberhagen right now. And please get Scott Radinsky's agent's number."

Saberhagen's a great choice - I don't think his duties coaching baseball at Calabasas High will interfere with some long relief work.

And Gubicza is just a stone's throw away doing the Sports Report. Now, if we can just find Charlie Leibrandt, our bullpen troubles will be behind us.

Actually Saberhagen quit at Calabasas High in a dispute over renovations on the baseball field.

In indirectly related news, Dave Miley is officially in trouble. The first domino in the Tracy-to-Cincinnati setup is about to fall.

I don't think Jim Tracy likes his dad that much that he wants to take charge of the Reds.

64 - Dispute was resolved, and Saberhagen re-took the job.

66 - Obi-Wan, this is our only hope.

I don't understand all the fuss about having to make a roster move this second. We have 3 pitchers on the DL, once they start coming off only then should we be concerned if Erickson is still on the roster. Erickson will not pitch again this year for the Dodgers unless we are involved in a blow out.
Dessens- Erickson gone
Perez - ???
Alveraz - ???

I blame all of this on Depo for letting Erickson win a spot on the opening day roster. None of us were fooled by his small spring sample size, why was he. If we lose the pennant by one or two games we will look back at all the games that Erickson started and wonder very loud "why". The only reason to have DJ Houlton on this staff is to pitch. If he can't pitch then he should be let go or make a deal with Houston so you can send him to the minors. We are not the KC Royals and we have no business keeping a rule 5 pitcher on our roster unless he has value in the current season.

Regarding Oswalt. I'd trade for Roy but I would trade our minor league pitching prospects not Joel Guzman. Having Oswalt on our team in 2005 would be huge but I can't see Houston trading him unless they officially wave the white flag and trade Clemens 1st. Houston has a lot of holes. 1st/C/OF/RP/SP
I think a deal of
Billingsly/Looney/Martin or Navarro/Osario might be enticing.
Oswalt could be a Cy Young candidate in Los Angeles. The future is now and we have plenty from where those 4 came from. Looney is still considered a top prospect. Remember he was a high schooler not a college player so he is still young. We just got excited because of his 2004 spring but he's 21 and in AA and each week he seems to be getting a little better. Would hate to lose any of those 4 but to get a stud like Oswalt you have to give up something. Think along the lines of what the Expo's gave up for Colon several years ago. 3 A type minor league players(Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore,Brandon Philips). Only one has panned out so far and he still has a long way to go. At the time the trade was made Brandon Philips was considered the best infield prospect in baseball. 3 years later he still in AAA. I'll take the sure thing.

Overall, while Jon's column points to managerial madness, I think there's method in it. Unlike past seasons, the Dodgers have too many starters who will in all likelihood only last 5-6 innings. In past years, you could expect 6-7. That "lost" inning completely changes Tracy's strategy for using the bullpen, and leaves him at a disadvantage that any manager would struggle with.

Tracy has to figure on needing four innings of relief in about half the games. Prior to this year, he only had to figure on filling three innngs, and we had three rock-solid guys who could come in the 7th, the 8th and then the 9th to hold onto a close win. Now we have two pretty solid guys for the 8th and 9th, but a series of crapshoots to fill the other two innings. It doesn't matter which innings. We're two short, no matter how you look at it.

The reason Yhency and Gagne aren't getting the numbers of innings-pitched is because, too many times, either the starter (Weaver) has blown open the game early and we couldn't catch up, or a mid-reliever has screwed up. In such games, it's pointless to pitch Gagne or Yhency, other than "to get in some work."

Rather than sacrificing Guzman or Izturis to get a #1 starter, what we really need are two upgrades in the pen, a 6th inning guy to replace Duaner/Alvarez and a 7th inning guy to replace Gio.

50.
| Why not just get a couple dozen baseballs instead of Everett?

Hey I think i'm worth more than a bag full of baseballs... not on a baseball field, but..

Erickson will not pitch again this year for the Dodgers unless we are involved in a blow out.

We thought this was true already!

Here's what I wrote on June 5:

But let's try this another way. You have Erickson and Carrara. Both of them have no business pitching to major league hitters. Well, Tracy's already figured that out about Erickson. We haven't seen him in forever. So DFA'ing Erickson does nothing. But DFA'ing Carrra ensures that he won't pitch in tie games. Win-win. Both problems taken care of.

But there he was, again(!), pitching in a two-run game! Assume, hypothetically, that Tracy is an idiot (humor me). You give him Erickson. What does he do? He uses him! That's what he does. Give a child a steak knife. What does he do? He uses it!

It is clear that the only way we will be free of Erickson is to release him. Grabowski was "gone"; now he's back. Hookers with crack. DePodesta and Tracy with low-talent nobodies. Same thing. Only solution is cold turkey.

You are all confusing results with decisions. Bringing in Duaner in the seventh was a good decision with a bad result. Bringing in Erickson in the sixth was a bad decision with a bad result -- bad results frequently stem from bad decisions, but it is not a 1-1 ratio.

We need some middle relief help, fellas. Please DePo get on the phones and make some magic happen. There's no use having Yhency and Eric if we cant get to them with the lead.

And Scotty, quit breathing, your wasting good oxygen other players could use. Maybe you could be our new batboy or something.

I'm looking at the Tigers bullpen, thinking we could use Urbina or Farnsworth. Any opinions on either of these guys?

I think Farnsworth gets a bad rap. He's always put up big strikeout numbers, but is known more for his failures (kinda like Armando Benitez).

A long, long time ago when Farnsworth was pitching for the Cubbies he had early success. Then the league figured out he throws straight gas, with no movement whatsoever. Now he's with the Tigers. He is not the solution to our middle relief problems.

69 said "Erickson will not pitch again this year for the Dodgers unless we are involved in a blow out."

Reply: Why would you keep someone on your roster who has such little value?
vr, Xei

I'm sure Detroit would LOVE to trade Urbina. Going into the Dodger series, the Tigers had the 5th best bullpen era in the league.

Parting with Urbina would be tapping into a strength, and dropping salary. According to ESPN he's making 4M, get the Tigers to pay 2M of that and take 2 decent prospects and there you go. That's a good idea, and you can never have enough Venezuelans on a team.

#77 - I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but from what I can tell he's had two subpar years, in 2000 and 2002, but has been very effective in all other years.

Again, I think his reputation might precede him.

I believe he is no longer arby-elig, so he might be a FA this year?

#79 - Detroit has paid $2M of his salary already (well more like $1.75M, or whatever his prorated salary to this point has been).

81 - my point was having the Tigers pay half.

81 - ...of the remainder.

Mike Fetters, where are you, we might need you pretty soon.

#82/83 - If we were to eat the salary in full, it might lessen the prospect package we'd send in return.

Cash or prospects - which is more important?

By the logic floated earlier in these pages, the correct answer once Erickson left with 2 on 1 in, and no outs was not Osoria, or Sanchez. It was Brazoban. This was the most important moment of the game. The kid did really well to get 3 straight outs (helped by the sacrifice) but what we needed with 0 outs was strikeouts or harmless popups. The reason Yhency didn't come in there is because Tracy is married to the "setup man" idea.

That's the really small picture. The bigger picture speaks to the question of trades. Everyone here seems focused on fixing this year's problems (many created by injuries, others by sheer suckitude). But I wonder if DePo isn't actually on a 3 year plan (the expansion of Beane's 3-quarter plan). Maybe this whole season is to "see what we have" and patch up holes with spare parts while waiting for the kids to be MLB ready. In that view, trading prospects for the stretch drive would be a bad idea.

This is how I think about it too. At the start of teh season, I figured that if everyone was healthy, then the Dodgers could win the West without burning prospects, and still be ready to replace the veterans with kids in the next couple years. I figured SD would be the main rival. But under no circumstance did I look at the 2005 roster and think this was a pennant contender this year. Not with StL so loaded. As things have worked out so far, injuries have left us a few games back of SD. The West is still winnable without major changes, but I don't even think that major changes would get us over the next hump, the pennant.

So while I agree that Erickson should be given his release, I'd otherwise make the best of this season with non-prospect AAA callups (including guys like Mahomes), and hope that the injury bug leaves the team alone for a while. The Dodgers could STILL win the division that way. But I wouldn't do anything that mortgages the future in the vain hope that "this could be the year."

#86 - I think Depo has shown that he can make trades that help this year and don't mortgage the future (and, if anything, improve the future)

Basically, I trust him.

While it might be nice to get one or two more arms in the bullpen, I'm much more concerned about starting pitching. If you have 5 above-average starters, a good setup man, and a good closer, the rest of the bullpen doesn't matter much. Thompson and Houlton have been alright for fill-in starts, but the reason we're having this discussion is that they both are roughly 5-and-done pitchers. Thompson has to be kept on a low pitch count because his knee has been rebuilt from cadaver parts. Houlton still needs to build stamina after transitioning from a bullpen role. We need another guy we can count on to throw 6 or 7 quality innings besides Penny and Lowe. We've seen too many times that when we patch together a sequence of relievers starting before the 7th, bad things happen.

It's unfortunate that both our swing-men, Alvarez and Dessens, are injured. They are ideally the guys DePodesta put on the roster to deal with this type of situation. Hopefully, in another week or so, they'll be able to successfully resume their roles. It will also be nice to get Perez back, as he can usually be counted on for a quality 6 innings.

Injuries are primarily what's killing us, but bullpen management isn't helping.

Want to know something, Billy Beane and his whole "money ball" philosophy is overrated. The A's aren't squat this year, and won't be good in the near future. Granted they are a small market team and rely mostly on home grown prospects. But lets not suck off Beane, the Big 3(Hudson, Mulder, and Zito) are most responsible for the success of the A's in years past. Beane struck lightning in a bottle once, but he's no savior.

The Tigers traded Urbina and Ramon Martinzez to Philadelphia for Placido Polanco.

#88 - I'm unsure as to where to turn for help in the rotation. Kip Wells would be a decent pickup. Failing that, or the ability to get a stud like Oswalt (which I don't consider a possibility), then what?

There seems to be many more bullpen arms out there. After watching last night, the bullpen needs help. I'd take:

Gagne
Brazoban
New guy (Urbina, Farnsworth, etc.)
Wunsch
Sanchez

With Alvarez, Dessens, and Carrara being able to contribute 2 healthy bodies the rest of the way to fill out the rest of the spots.

Comparing current injuries in the NL West:

SD 15-Day: 2 (Redding & Loretta)
SD 60-Day: 3 (Ascencio, Guzman, & Young)

AZ 15-Day: 2 (Lyon & Aquino)
AZ 60-Day: 2 (Villareal & Gil)

LA 15-Day: 6 (Alvarez, Dessens, Bako, Bradley, & Ledee)
LA 60-Day: 2 (Dreifort & Valentin)

SF 15-Day: 0
SF 60-Day: 2 (Bonds & Benitez)

CO 15-Day: 4 (Acevedo, Shacon, Greene, & Miles)
CO 60-Day: 4 (Cook, Merricks, Tsao, & Barmes)

So, Colorado is really the only team that is as beat up as we are.

OT, I just noticed that the Rockies are pulling a Thompson with Merricks. He's a Rule-5 draftee from the Dodgers and it looks like they're just going to keep him on the disabled list for the year.

#88 -- "While it might be nice to get one or two more arms in the bullpen, I'm much more concerned about starting pitching. If you have 5 above-average starters, a good setup man, and a good closer, the rest of the bullpen doesn't matter much."

Sure, five above-average starters would be excellent. But my sense is the price for two more starters of that quality level would be much higher than it would be for one or two middle relievers. Whatever mortgaging of the future would be involved in replacing Sanchez and/or Carrara, the payments would be a lot lower than they would be to replace Jeff Weaver, Odalis Perez, Derek Thompson or D.J. Houlton in the rotation.

#92: I missed listing Perez on our 15-Day DL.

89. Absurd.
Not to say that a big-market team needs to emulate a small-market team, or that the Dodgers can't improve on the model. But to not credit Beane for keeping the A's in the hunt despite their tiny payroll is absurd. The question isn't why the A's suck this year - it's why didn't they suck for each of the last 10 years! And no, 3 pitchers (actually 2, since Zito was only great once) are not the end of the answer. Look at all the talent Oakland has had to part with once it became expensive. That they GOT that talent was partly good luck, but also partly smart management. That they lost it was almost always because of finances.

#92 -- Well, you gotta admit, the Giants may not have a lot of players on the DL, but losing their primary offensive threat plus their expensive new closer, both possibly for the season, is disproportionate in its impact on the team. With Bonds and Benitez, the Giants are probably ahead of LA in the standings. They'd trade their injury situation for ours in a Silicon Valley nanosecond.

86 - you're right, but we're dealing here with Tracy, who appears to be failing Baseball 101, much less the advanced courses that include concepts like Smokejumping and Proper Usage Of A Grabowski. I've said before I don't grade on a curve, but we have to take into account the remedial lessons he's trying to learn. Braz was the A answer. Osoria was the B-/C+, Carrara the D+, and the answer we got was the F--.

Jon has it completly right on this issue. However, in fairness to Tracy, with the status of elite closers only allowed to pitch in the 8th or 9th innings, the middle of the game-in last night's case the 6th and the 7th are grap shoots. Tracy is also locked in to specific roles and match-ups, which while at times make sense, last night it could be argued with the schedule and the lead and need to beat certain teams to get back in the race, "going by the book" did not make sense.

#90 - What a nothing trade! We could've been competitive there, so I'm assuming we weren't interested (esp. since they're in town - is Depo in town, or on draft-related trip?)

The Giants problem aside from the "Elephant in the Room" of Bonds is that all the other parts of the team that were supposed to mesh together and bring them to glory never materialized. Vizquel has been adequate. Mike Matheny is Mike Matheny and no amount of leadership of his is going to make Noah Lowry another ace.

And now Jason Schmidt is more like jason schmidt too.

If your ace is Brett Tomko, then you're living in a land where Jeff Weaver is a demigod.

Lightning in a bottle, Beane struck it once. But prospects are prospects until they prove otherwise.

Phillies fans are not happy. The Phillies have relievers already. They have utility players.

Then again, Phillies fans are always unhappy.

#93: Unfortunately, unless we're going after another team's setup-man or closer, there isn't much better out there than Sanchez or Carrara. Even including setup-men and closers, the two names being mentioned the most often on the trade market are Urbina and Mesa. Those two haven't exactly been lights-out the past few years. The Giants got one of the best relievers available in LaTroy Hawkins, and they had to give up two good prospects for him. Thus, I don't think I'd agree that getting two good relievers is cheaper than getting one good starter.

#104: Too slow. Now even Urbina is off the list :). The other closers who have been mentioned as possible trade candidates are:

Eddie Guardado (1.64 ERA; 0.864 WHIP; very good, but an injury risk)
Danys Baez (2.39 ERA; 1.291 WHIP; above average, but his low ERA is masking his high WHIP)
Bob Wickman (3.60 ERA; 1.400 WHIP; he's old, injury-proned, and not very good)
Jose Mesa (4.22 ERA; 1.594 WHIP; he's older and worse)

I don't think it's worth paying what it would take to get Guardado or Baez and I have no desire to have Wickman or Mesa anywhere near our team.

Sweet. MLB.com updated the DraftCaster so that it has the Scouting Report and links to video inline.

#58, Yes! and Lasorda, for all his faults, is the manager that taught me that in spades....

#59, etc, why can't we just BUY Oswalt, or hell even Urbina, although I'm not sure I buy that. I keep thinking the Dodgers ought to have some Cash available.

#66 That is too true. :-)

I'd still like to have a better pitcher than say Dessens/Perez since I don't have too much faith that they are going to be that great. If we had another power pitcher as discussed previously, it would help the overall rotation, and then of weaver/dessens/perez (if they aren;t traded) I think they might be able to work from the pen. Just my thinking, which has been known for flaws, so take it for what it's worth. Sort of like any of us thinking these wonderful Dodger Thoughts (tm) are bubbling in anyone's head that will actually make decisions.

103- I don't know that we even need an ace. What we need is an innings-eater, much like what Weaver and Perez used to be. Now we've got half-a-Weaver, Houlton(?), and a double-A kid who is undoubtably on a short leash.

Can we pick up a Capuano? How about a Buehrle? A Radke? Bedard?

Relief: Crain? Timlin? Sisco?

Serenity now! Serenity now!

89. I agree. Well, actually I agree somewhat. Well, let me take that back, I don't really agree at all. What I will agree with you is that "The Big Three" definitely helped Oakland win, and so did Giambi, Tejada and Chavez in years past. Take a look at last years numbers, "The Big Three" weren't exactly dominant, yet the A's were right there at the end of the season just missing out on the playoffs. The A's have been hammered by injuries this year, Crosby, Harden, Haren, Dotel, Chavez and probably a few others that I am missing. One thing that Moneyball or Smallball teams can't make up for easily, and that is injuries.
vr, Xei

107. I've always wondered what is the definition of an innings eater? To me it sounds like someone who will pitch alot of innings, and this doesn't say anything about how well those innings are pitched. If an innings eater is someone who throws 7+ innings ever start and allows 2 or 3 runs per start, then sure I think the Dodgers would love to have Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt or Brett Myers on the team.
vr, Xei

Over/Under on Jeff Weaver is 6 IPs. Last night the "unders" won, making it 3 out of 5 for the "overs". The Dodgers tend to get wins on "overs" and losses on "unders". Go figure! :)
vr, Xei

2005-06-08 07:27:18
19. Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Scottie get the hell out, your breathing up good oxygen other players could be breathing.

2005-06-08 07:56:53
20. Jon Weisman
All right, Saxy. We get it. Enough. Tone it down, please.

2005-06-08 08:05:32
22. Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Sorry Jon, I'm just so fed up and frustrated right now. As I'm sure everyone on this thread is. We could have picked up a game on the D-smacks and Padres last night. I'm just venting.

Thanks again Scottie

2005-06-08 13:09:20
75. Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
We need some middle relief help, fellas. Please DePo get on the phones and make some magic happen. There's no use having Yhency and Eric if we cant get to them with the lead.

And Scotty, quit breathing, your wasting good oxygen other players could use. Maybe you could be our new batboy or something.

*

It's not enough that you said the line once - you had to say it twice? Even after I asked you to tone it down and stop? Do you really think it's that good a line? I really don't appreciate this at all. This is not the site for those kinds of lines. Tone it way down.

Well I guess the question as to Urbina's availability was answered... maybe the Phils will tank and move him =)

I'm expecting a lot of our pitching improvement to come from within. Odalis SHOULD be better than he's shown to date, Dessens SHOULD be better than Erickson or Alvarez has been. It would be nice to have both those guys before we play 4 games in San Diego starting 6/20. Injuries have thinned the pitching tremendously.

That bumps Erickson out and Carrara into the mop-up role rather than the close-game-but-not-the-8th-inning-yet role.

111-Steve Sax's Sweaty Jockstrap(sssj) is crude and offensive.

One thing I liked about this board is the lack of bathroom humor.

I find myself distracted by the user-name so much so that I can't bring myself to read the content of the post. Please tone the name way down. How about just Saxy?

# 106 Haren and Chavez have not been hurt just crappy. Both are coming on.

For years, Beane's critics have maintained that without Mulder/Hudson/Zito he was nothing. As he rebuilds over the next 3 years he will have his chance to answer his critics. It will be a very interesting time. For right now I think his Atlanta trade was a disaster and considering what he got for Hudson and the fact Hudson signed a long term deal with Atlanta it is irritating that we weren't involved. I loved the Mulder deal and think that Haren/Barton will tilt that deal in Oakland's favor. Haren's last two games have shown what he can do and he'll be cheap for several years.

112: I'm sure that's part of Ed Wade's thinking. Urbina will be more highly valued, should the Phillies Phade (sorry). Martinez, meanwhile, replaces Polanco as a spare infield part. Not as good, but not that huge a dropoff. I think the Phillies won this deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit were to move Polanco again either. What do they need with him?

When the A's were good it was their pitching, now that the White Sox are tearing it up it's smallball, or as Ozzie calls it, Smartball(tm)

114- I concurr. By the way, our beloved Choi is due. I predict a break-out game tonight. 3-4, 1hr, 3rbi's.

Where's the Choi love?

#113
I'd rather have Dessens working long relief and Thompson stay in the rotation. A bullpen of
Dessens/Alveraz/Sanchez/Wunsch/Brazoban/Gagne should get it done. I think Gio's magic dust has just about been used up and would not shed a tear if he was to be released. It is possible that Wilson is done but I hope not for our sake. Anyway I see no need to trade for a setup man. Mix and match until we get something working.

I like Redman if were not getting something franchise changing. (like an Oswalt)

79 IP
2.82 era
1.04 whip
.221 BA Against.
41ks/21walks

Shouldn't cost us too much, should it?

115. Haren/Harden, TomAto/TomOto :) Thanks for pointing out the errors in my post, didn't really research in depth but knew they were bit hard by the injury bug. I forgot Durazo too. When the season is all said and done, the A's will be right there! Right there in 3rd place that is.
vr, Xei

Here is a thought to keep us all balanced.

It is from the LA Times, June 2, 1966.
Charles Maher interviewing Vin Scully (a 3-part series)

Maher asked Scully if he ever took a defeat home with him:

"I don't even take a victory home with me."

And in 1966, Scully had already been on the job for 17 years. I'm sure he has heeded that advice for the past 40 seasons.

Henri Stanley has a ops of .947. Surely he is better than fair Grabowski.

# 120
He would be ideal for a 5th starter. He's been a goldmine on my roto team. I suspect he will be one of the most coveted pitchers that are available via trade.

Stanley's Vegas OPS is lower than Grabowski's was.

what Depo should do is lob Tyler Houston a call. Sign him and trade him to Seattle for Guardado.

At the risk of repeating myself, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

117 -- that is exactly right.

119 -

Agreed that no extra set-up guy is needed. However, I just don't see Alvarez as an effective short reliver. Dessens isn't a great choice for short work, either, but his presence means that Carrara (or Erickson) doesn't have to be the default "I can't use Sanchez until the 7th inning!" 6th-inning pitcher.

Looking at the schedule, the Dodgers have a good chance to catch the Padres this month -

3 vs MIN (no Santana)
3 @ KC
3 @ CHA (many consider them overrated)
3 @ SD
3 @ ANA
3 vs SD

A long road trip, but against beatable teams. 2 series wins against the padres, all else being equal, cuts their lead in half. The Padres don't play KC, and we don't play CLE. That's a benefit to us.

I'm just saying that anyone but another "Jason" should be given a shot...

Should we take bets on the date and time the dreaded "all-Ja(y)son outfield" makes its first appearance of the season? (I guess it would go Repko-CF, Werth-RF, Grabowski-LF.)

Wow, I just resolved a 24 hour problem with my DSL on my home computer. Very frustrating. I couldn't load any pages. I was convinced that I needed to replace the DSL modem, even though the lights looked right. I use a router and it wouldn't connect even when I bypassed it. It took 4 calls to SBC, but the last guy walked me through my Router settings (I was sure this would be futile). It turned out, somehow my username and password was incorrect in the configuration. I have no idea how that could have happened. I haven't looked at the router config since I set it up a year ago. Very weird, and I'm an IT guy!

Side note: It was strange watching the game last night without being able to monitor and participate in the conversations here. Dodger Thoughts is crack. I was dying to see what everyone thought of the Erickson performance!

Let's not and say we did ...

130 -

We could snag the DFA'd Romano from the Reds as a backup...

Or play Phillips in left.

#119: I believe Thompson is projected as a reliever longterm due to injury concerns. I agree that Dessens is not the best alternative, which is why I'm hoping for a trade sooner than later. If that doesn't happen, I think Houlton should get another chance or two before he's ruled out. He was much more efficient in his start (13.1 pitches / inning) than Thompson has been (18.0 pitches / inning). Additionally, he should be able to be stretched to a higher pitch count.

In other "spare part" news, the Orioles picked up Eli Marrero, who once was fairly good.

#133: When we lose a bad game, I just remember that we got Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor and Antonio Perez for Jason Romano. That makes me happy.

Does anybody know what the timetable is for Ryan Ketchner's return? He had a great year in AA last year and if he hadn't gotten hurt, would have been a good candidate to make a Derek Thompson-like appearance in the rotation.

138-is Ketchner the hearing impaired fellow?

#128 - Who exactly is the overrated team in Charlotte?

#140
I don't think the Dodgers have anyone who can match up well with Emeka Okafor.

140-Dodgers could employ a scrappy triple-team on Okafor

138 -- yep.

Overrated or not, 9 on 5 I would give the edge to the Dodgers no matter what sport they decided to play.

On ESPN insider Joe Morgan has an article in which he states that closers should not be held until only the ninth inning. He uses Saturday night's game when Carrara walked in the winning run with Gagne in the pen as an example of bad closer usage.

uh, 139, i mean.

#139: Yes, Ryan Ketchner is deaf. He has hearing aids that allow him to detect vibrations, but not distinguish words. We acquired him prior to last year from Seattle for Jolbert Cabrera. If he contributes in the majors, I'll add that trade to my list above. Last year, he mostly pitched in Jacksonville, though he was moved up to AAA for one start at the end of the year. Here are his lines:

2004 (AA): 3.02 ERA; 119.1 IP; 10 HR; 36 BB; 98 K
2004 (AAA): 1.29 ERA; 7.0 IP; 1 HR; 0 BB; 4 K

He's 23 years old, but he hasn't pitched this season. He had an ulnar nerve transplant surgery last fall. I don't know what the typical recovery time is for that type of injury.

I predict an outstanding performance from Weaver tonight. I'm not sure what is leading me to this prediction, I just feel good about it.

We have hammered Jason Johnson in the few appearances our hitters have had against him. Hopefully this continues tonight.

And please JT, lets not see Gio, Erickson, or Robles tonight.

140 -

Charlotte is funny to think about, but CHA is one of two abbreviations used for the White Sox (CHicago, AL - versus CHicago NL, or CHN for the Cubs).

CHW, CHC, CHA, CHN, LAD, LAN, LAA, NYM, NYN, NYA, NYY - these abbreviations describe a total of 6 teams.

Looks like Santana goes tonight for the Twinkies. So the Dodgers will miss him, unless he goes on 3 days rest on Sunday (Sunday matchups not yet announced).

Fri: Penny v. Mays
Sat: Lowe v. Silva
Sun: ??

If Tracy wants to use a rookie pitcher on Sunday (Houlton or Thompson) he might choose to rest Phillips on Saturday night. Is Silva a southpaw (planning ahead will always take a backseat to L-R matchups for our JT).

Jason Grabowski outhit everyone in Vegas during his rehab. Give him at bats and he'd probably surprise people with his production. Continue to give him one at bat against tough pitching and he'll continue to dissapoint. That is the nature of being a PH.

Our new Dave Hansen, is little Mikey Edwards.
Our pinch hitting machine.