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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Chavez Ravine, Old and New
2005-06-08 16:30
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

Don Normark's classic photographs come to life tonight as part of Jordan Mechner's documentary, Chavez Ravine: A Los Angeles Story, airing at 9:30 p.m. on KCET.

* * *

Cesar Izturis' recent 0-for-21 slump:

Strikeouts: 4
Groundouts: 9
Popouts: 2
Flyouts: 7
Walks: 1

He's making less frequent contact during the slump (one strikeout per 5.5 plate appearances) than he has overall in 2005 (one strikeout per 9.8 plate appearances). He has put the ball in the air a little more than usual; normally, he's close to a 2-1 ratio on groundouts vs. flyouts. And of course, even by Izturis standards, he is walking rarely.

No doubt he will read this and get back on the right track tonight, right?

* * *

From Baseball America:

Dodgers' No. 1 prospect Joel Guzman missed his second straight game at Double-A Jacksonville with a sore left shoulder, the same injury that caused him to miss three games in late May. The 20-year-old will be examined by a specialist on Wednesday when the team returns home for a four-game set against Carolina.

* * *

Ray Liotta, Chicago White Sox, 1919 (as Shoeless Joe Jackson)
Ray Liotta, Kannapolis Intimidators, 2005 (White Sox Single-A team)

According to the Kannapolis website, they are related.

Comments (241)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-06-08 16:32:34
1.   Bob Timmermann
As you can hear at the end of "Happy Jack"

"I saw you!"

2005-06-08 16:41:02
2.   Jon Weisman
Saw me make a publishing mistake?
2005-06-08 16:47:59
3.   Linkmeister
I saw part of that documentary last night. Those Independent Lens projects typically take the side of the underdog, but even so, the behavior of the city was pretty reprehensible.
2005-06-08 17:03:47
4.   gvette
It's perfect that the namesake of Ray Liotta,star of Goodfellas plays for a team called the Intimidators.

"As far back as I can remember, all I ever wanted to be was a gangster."
Henry Hill/Ray Liotta-Goodfellas

2005-06-08 17:05:22
5.   Bob Timmermann
I wonder if the documentary will focus on the actual poor people who lived in Chavez Ravine or take up the cause of the Arechigas, the last family to be evicted, who turned out to own 11 other pieces of property in the city.
2005-06-08 17:06:21
6.   the OZ
Ray Liotta's laugh is perhaps the most unnatural sound I've ever emanating from a human. To quote Seinfeld, it's as though "Elmer Fudd were sitting on a juicer", but holding a machine gun.
2005-06-08 17:10:49
7.   Linkmeister
Bob, here's the link to the documentary at PBS. I didn't see enough of the show itself to answer your question.

2005-06-08 17:19:18
8.   Jacob L
A couple years ago, the only time I ever sat in the dugout club seats, we were one aisle over from Ray Liotta. As some of you may recall, they used to have some feature on the video board where they showed scenes from baseball movies. Sure enough, the scene that night was from Field of Dreams. I'm pretty sure Liotta turned to his daughter and said "Daddy was in that movie."
2005-06-08 17:21:41
9.   Bob Timmermann
The way Chavez Ravine used to look:

There are 65 photos online through the LAPL catalog under "Chavez Ravine" most are from 1958-59.

2005-06-08 17:26:17
10.   Marty
I live in a pretty racially-diverse neighborhood. At the store just now I had to explain to an african-american man that the Ghame Over t-shirt I was wearing was not an anti-black slogan. I assured him that it was just a salute to one of our favorite Dodgers, but I don't know if he was 100% convinced. Has anyone else had an experience like that?
2005-06-08 17:28:14
11.   FirstMohican
Looks like Lou Diamond Phillips' neighborhood in La Bamba. Although, Ritchie Valens was apparently born in Pacoima. I guess alot of LA looked like that.
2005-06-08 17:30:23
12.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

June 8, 1966

Don Drysdale got rocked for five runs in the fourth inning at Wrigley Field as the Cubs coasted to an easy win over the second-place Dodgers, 8-1, before a crowd of 5,178. The Dodgers were 32-21, ½ game behind first place San Francisco.

The Cubs benefited from some timely hitting and some wildness from Drysdale. Billy Willams singled with one out in the fourth and scored on a Ron Santo double. Drysdale then hit Ernie Banks and Byron Browne with pitches to load the bases for Randy Hundley. On an 0-1 count, Hundley hit his first career grand slam to put the Cubs up 5-0.

The Dodgers got a run back in the fifth, but the Cubs put the game out of reach in the seventh when errors on consecutive plays by John Kennedy and Drysdale, set up Don Kessinger for an RBI. Kessinger singled in two more runs in the eighth off of reliever Nick Willhite to put the game out of reach. Manager Walter Alston was ejected in the eighth by umpire Augie Donatelli for arguing a balk call against Willhite.

Coming off a World Series title the previous year, the 1966 Dodgers had to survive a joint holdout by Drysdale and Sandy Koufax in spring training. While the two pitching aces wanted a joint contract, general manager Buzzie Bavasi eventually was able to get the two pitchers to sign separate deals.

Koufax had a stellar 1966 going 27-9 with a 1.79 ERA. Drysdale scuffled a bit more going 13-16 with a 3.42 ERA. Reliever Phil Regan sported a 14-1 record with a 1.62 ERA. Rookie Don Sutton took a spot in the rotation and went 12-12 with a 2.99 ERA. Sutton would be in the rotation until 1980. The Dodgers used just five starters the whole season. Claude Osteen went 17-14 and Joe Moeller had eight spot starts.

The Dodgers would win the National League again in 1966 going 95-67, but the Dodgers didn't clinch until the last game of the season and needed Koufax on just two days' rest to pitch in the nightcap of a doubleheader in Philadelphia to clinch the title. The Dodgers could have clinched with a win in the first game, but Drysdale was knocked out early.

Walter Alston's use of both Koufax and Drysdale would set the stage for a disastrous showing in the World Series against Baltimore. Drysdale started the opener on two days' rest and could last only two innings before falling behind 4-0. The Orioles would win 5-2. In the second game, 20-year old Jim Palmer shut out the Dodgers and Koufax 6-0. The Dodgers committed six errors in the game, including three by center fielder Willie Davis in one inning. The Orioles shut out the Dodgers twice more in Baltimore to complete the sweep.

The World Series was an example of how dependent upon pitching the 1966 Dodgers were. The team batted a meager .256 with an OBP of .314. Jim Lefebvre hit a career-high 24 homers. Ron Fairly led regulars with a .288 BA and a .380 OBP. Maury Wills stole 38 bases, but was caught 24 times. The Dodgers were shut out 17 times during the season, the most ever by a league champion. Cardinals lefty Larry Jaster threw five of the shutouts. He had only seven in his major league career.

When the season was over, Koufax stunned the baseball world by retiring at the age of 30 with an arthritic condition in his left elbow. Also Wills jumped the team during an exhibition tour in Japan and the Dodgers traded him to Pittsburgh.

The Dodgers were going to have to retool in 1967, but without their greatest pitcher. It would not a pretty sight to watch.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, and Retrosheet

2005-06-08 17:41:10
13.   Jim Hitchcock
It's all over. We have to stop playing baseball:

2005-06-08 17:52:30
14.   GoBears
Re: Cesar's slump. I wonder if (fear that) this is a product of the league adjusting to his free-swingin' ways. Cesar never walks. So why throw him strikes? I imagine the reason that strikes are strikes is because they're easier to hit hard. For him, "hard" is merely a line drive single, or occasional double, but if he'll swing at anything, then throwing pitches on the edges or outside the zone should end up in more strikeouts and more weak outs. At first, it's likely that pitchers didn't worry about HRs, so they just threw strikes. Cesar is a slap hitter with no discipline, which is fine if you can hit .350, but not if you hit an empty .300 or worse. If I'm right about why he's slumping, then he needs to adjust by working some walks until they start throwing strikes again.

Note that you can't figure out how they're throwing except by watching, because every pitch offered at by the batter is considered a strike, no matter what the location (which is, I suppose, why the word "strike" is used).

2005-06-08 17:53:33
15.   Linkmeister
Jim, we'll just rename it "rounders."

That's an oldie; I remember seeing it quite a while ago. I do especially like the "Except Utah, which she does not fancy."

She's missing Bryce Canyon that way, but whatever.

2005-06-08 17:54:57
16.   Jim Hitchcock
And Zion (with the Virgin River!).
2005-06-08 17:57:23
17.   GoBears
and Steve!
2005-06-08 18:01:13
18.   bigcpa
I found us a new 3rd starter:

28 yr old RHP
6'3, 205 lbs.
2005 salary- $3.2M
FA eligible 2005-2006
3.69 ERA 2003-present
K rate: 7.6/2004, 7.1/2005
Current team: out of contention

Guesses anyone?

2005-06-08 18:06:04
19.   jasonungar05
Cesar, you better start hitting. Beltre just had his 11th multihit game of the year tonight.

you are only ahead by 14, lets go

2005-06-08 18:10:23
20.   the OZ
Kip Wells.
2005-06-08 18:11:24
21.   GoBears
re 18: Sounds like Kip Wells. Several people have mentioned him. I'd take him, depending on the price. Maybe one of our 3 hot 3b prospects, and all the Ja(s)ons they could eat?
2005-06-08 18:11:44
22.   GoBears
Oops, should have been Ja(y)sons.
2005-06-08 18:14:54
23.   bigcpa
Wow that was quick. Where else was he mentioned? Seems like a perfect match to me.
2005-06-08 18:17:06
24.   rageon
In re: #10, I'm sorry, perhaps this is the result of growing up in an all white small town in North Dakota, but why would Ghame Over be offensive to blacks?

In re: Izturis, he's returning to earth. He's improved each year, but did anyone actually expect he'd hit .340 all season? I think he'll finish with rate stats half-way between last years numbers and his pre-slump numbers.

2005-06-08 18:21:47
25.   Bob Timmermann
I think somebody thought the t-shirt implied that African-Americans can't spell.
2005-06-08 18:22:42
26.   Marty
24. I think it was an instant reaction without giving it a lot of thought. He said he thought "game over" (he didn't notice the H) over a black image was threatening. It wasn't THAT big a deal, I never felt nervous, just thought it was interesting.
2005-06-08 18:24:26
27.   Johnson
Eh. I always thought it should be "Ehighth Over" anyway.
2005-06-08 18:26:02
28.   Bob Timmermann
Shows what I know about insensitive behavior...

UCLA and Michigan are 1-1 in the 6th. Exciting game. Michigan had the bases loaded and no one out in the top of the 6th and UCLA got out of it on a great by the third baseman who snared a line drive and tagged out the Michigan runner who was trapped off third.

There usually aren't many great defensive plays in women's softball.

I like how both teams are using the same pitcher for every game in the tournament. It gives the game an Old Hoss Rabdourn sort of feel.

2005-06-08 18:26:06
29.   FirstMohican
26 - are you saying unless you indicate otherwise, encounters with African-Americans make you nervous?
2005-06-08 18:30:07
30.   Bob Timmermann
We'll let Marty find a way to get out of this without stepping on a landmine.
2005-06-08 18:30:41
31.   Marty
29. don't be silly. I meant a minor confrontation didn't make me nervous.
2005-06-08 18:32:14
32.   Bob Timmermann
OK, now this is big news,

Everybody ready:

Tampa Bay 9, Cincinnati 5 in the 8th!

Grand slam for Eduardo Perez.

2005-06-08 18:33:23
33.   Fearing Blue
#21: I'm a fan of Kip Wells also, but he's not a free agent until after the 2006 season. That makes him even better in my opinion, but significantly harder to obtain.
2005-06-08 18:35:45
34.   Jim Hitchcock
Marty's not saying that. He's just stating that it would be hard to explain the meaning of the shirt to a non Dodger fan.

"You see, there's a terrific pitcher on the Dodgers, who's done a bang up job of replacing Eirc Gagne, who's known as `Game Over', and his first name is Yhency, with an `h', only the 'h'
is silent, you see, so...."

2005-06-08 18:36:03
35.   GoBears
24 on Izturis: You're right - there was no reason to believe that he could continue at that pace. But now he needs to adapt. A lot of guys probably COULD hit .340 if they saw nothing but strikes. The reason people were wary of Izturis as a leadoff hitter was his low OBP. It's been decent for a leadoff guy this year, but completely dependent upon his batting average. If he settles in at .310 or so, but with only a .330 OBP, we need a new leadoff hitter. I re-nominate Milton Bradley, once his owie is all better.
2005-06-08 18:43:00
36.   bigcpa
What's your source on that FB? I see 6 years of service time and per the Seattle P-I he's FA eligible this fall. He had 20 starts in 2000 the year Penny came in with 22 starts. Looks like a FA. Smells like a FA.
2005-06-08 18:45:14
37.   Marty
Angels up 7-4 in the eighth. Danny Kolb is mopping up for the Braves
2005-06-08 18:46:25
38.   FirstMohican
31 - Sorry i didn't tell you I was joking earlier, got tied up at work =)
2005-06-08 18:47:31
39.   Marty
38. No problem :)
2005-06-08 18:47:36
40.   the OZ
Alan Trammel says that Polanco is a good professional hitter. All they need now is a good situational hitter, too, and they'll be unstoppable.
2005-06-08 18:50:21
41.   rageon
I've been infavor of moving Bradley up to 1st or 2nd since the day he arrived, but it's not going to happen under Jim Tracy.

I'm starting to think that Tracy is a bit of a hybrid in that he "gets it" with a lot of moves and seems to understand stats (at least compared to other managers, it seems), while at the same time, not going out on a limb to the point of having the players get upset. Torre for example, he's a politian, not a strategist. Davey Johnson, at least from what I recall, was the opposite. Tracy might make moves we all disagree with, but whether we can show it with numbers or not, keeping players motivated IS a skill. While we may hate the fact that Gagne pitches the 9th, Brazoban the 8th, Sanchez the 7th, and Gio/others the 6th, it's pretty clear that players (and most established reporters/writers) today aren't a big fat of the "relief ace" concept, and want defined roles. Defined roles pay better. I think there's a reason that players seem to succeed under Dusty Baker and certain others, and Tracy has some of that.

Back to my point, Bradley in the leadoff spot makes sense to us, but is probably the type of move that Tracy wouldn't make because the 0.01 runes per game (or whatever) isn't worth the drama associated from having to explain why he dropped the golden boy out of the leadoff spot.

That said, one of these days, a guy like Depo or Beane is going to revamp their entire development system to train players to succeed in a more SABR-friendly approach. Eventually, we'll see the return of the 4-man rotation, the splitting of "starts", big guys who walk alot batting leadoff, and all sorts of other fun stuff.

Personally, I think Depo would be the guy to do it, but my hunch is that in 5 years, he'll get offered a VP/CEO/etc... spot at a major corporation, take a look at the salary differences between a baseball GM and a corporate VP (despite the value of the Dodgers being 0.5 billion), and walk away. Which is exactly why Beane getting a piece of ownership is one of the best things that could have happened to the game over the past year.

2005-06-08 18:51:49
42.   Bob Timmermann
The Tigers have the AAA lineup tonight:


2005-06-08 18:54:40
43.   FirstMohican
interesting that grabowski's ahead of phillips... LLLRRRLR...right?
2005-06-08 18:57:28
44.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, it's SLLRRRLR
2005-06-08 18:57:48
45.   Midwest Blue
So if Grabs bombs tonight, can he catch the first plane back to Vegas with Scott? (He can leave Lisa here if he wants).
2005-06-08 19:01:58
46.   Steve
If the Queen took back the United States, she would make Grabowski move to Utah before she did it.
2005-06-08 19:02:49
47.   FirstMohican
I assumed Cesar would bat left...
2005-06-08 19:03:02
48.   Marty
For those of you who have seen it before, the menu tonight: Penne with spinach and hot italian sausage and a cream/fontina/parmesan sauce.

Tomorrow, I'm off to Palm Springs for a bachelor "party". We are all fiftyish, so how much of a party can it be. We'll be enjoying big Steaks at LG's steak house tomorrow night, followed by some golf Friday.

2005-06-08 19:03:20
49.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds have tied the D-Rays in the 9th at 9-9.

The tension is tremendous there in the Queen City.

2005-06-08 19:05:37
50.   rageon
Wow, a start for Choi. Lets hope he goes 4 for 4, so he doesn't get benched for a week or so.

All the Scott Erickson/Lisa Guerrero refernces reminded me of an event I vaguely involve from a few years ago. It was Hollywood "Stars" night, and she was co-hosting with that annoying guy from American Idol / 98.7 FM. I remember him insulting her and making jokes about how she's only there for her looks. I was pretty suprised at it considering all the kids that come out for the "Stars" game. I think she finally put him in his place. Was anyone else there? I'd love to here someone else's take on it.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-06-08 19:06:40
51.   the OZ
The wily Mo Pena ends it for the Reds against TB, 11-9
2005-06-08 19:06:45
52.   Bob Timmermann
The fact that Lisa Guerrero was hosting Hollywood Stars Night only exacerbates my contempt for the event.
2005-06-08 19:07:34
53.   Fearing Blue
#36: I got my information from a site that doesn't look very reputable, so you could very well be correct.

I believe service time is calculated based on time on the 25-man roster and partial years are added together. So, if his total is less than 6 after this year, he'd still have another year of arbitration eligibility. It's hard to tell based on his statistics.

2005-06-08 19:09:05
54.   the OZ
It's weird to think that Kip Wells could be one of next offseason's prized FA pitchers.
2005-06-08 19:09:40
55.   Jim Hitchcock
What's the over tonight? 5 2/3? Hmmm. Against my better judgement, over.
2005-06-08 19:10:08
56.   Fearing Blue
#41: I believe lineup studies would say batting Milton Bradley 1st is a bad idea. His OBP percentage has dropped while his slugging has increased. The 5th slot in the lineup is probably the best for him.
2005-06-08 19:10:51
57.   the OZ
...and the portion of the chat where we all speak like radio operaters begins. Over.
2005-06-08 19:11:23
58.   Marty
I'm inclined to take the under tonight. But the bums should score enough to make it irrelevant.
2005-06-08 19:11:24
59.   Steve
What's that? The line for Weaver tonight is two innings?

I'll take the under.

2005-06-08 19:12:24
60.   Eric Enders
2005-06-08 19:15:38
61.   Fearing Blue
#53: Based on his statistics on, I used the %-age of innings he pitched in the majors each year to estimate his roster time. It's just an estimate, but it puts him at 5.64 years of service time after this year.
2005-06-08 19:18:46
62.   Fearing Blue
The over/under is 6 IP as I recall. I'll take the over based on Tracy leaving Weaver in too long.
2005-06-08 19:20:02
63.   Christina
I'll take the over - I'm feeling optimistic.

I also promise that if Sanchez makes an appearance tonight, I'll turn off Sportsline until he's finished pitching. No more jinxes!

2005-06-08 19:27:24
64.   Berkeley Doug
1-0 Cleveland after 1.
2005-06-08 19:28:25
65.   Berkeley Doug
Make that 2-0. The Yankee hero from 2004, Aaron Boone, just went deep off of Peavy.
2005-06-08 19:28:45
66.   rageon
OK, I'll bite. The thing about Bradley in the leadoff or 2nd spot isn't so much about whether the spot is what what traditionally fit a similiar player on most teams, but whether he's the best choice for the current team. Basically, that narrows the argument to Izturis vs. Bradley.

To simplify things, I'll say that Bradley is somewhere around a 270/355/470 hitter. I'll say Izturis is a generous 300/350/350 hitter. Honestly, their OBP's are similiar enough that it wouldn't matter a ton, but Bradley IS the better hitter. And in my book, you give the better hitter more AB's than the lesser hitter. I'm not really concerned about whether he hits a bases empty HR 10 times a year.

That said, the difference is small, according to most people's research and my own, which I hope to expand on, assuming the bar exam doesn't kill me first.

2005-06-08 19:29:08
67.   Mark
I'd like to parlay my under bet with an over on number of Choi strikeouts at 1.5.

And... Ryan Seacrest, complaining that someone else was brought in just for looks? That is the height of hypocrisy.

2005-06-08 19:32:51
68.   Berkeley Doug
1-0 KC up here in rainy SF. KC has the bases loaded with two outs. Come on Ruben Gotay!
2005-06-08 19:34:37
69.   Berkeley Doug
Alas the .233 hitter coudln't come through for KC.
2005-06-08 19:35:36
70.   Berkeley Doug
Jones goes deep for the Twinkies and it's 2-0 MIN
2005-06-08 19:35:48
71.   Bob Timmermann
But the 42-year old pitcher threw a wild pitch to score a run to make it 2-0 KC.
2005-06-08 19:36:25
72.   Berkeley Doug
Come on Perez. Let's make it 2-0 LA to go with all the 2-0 scores against our NL West rivals.
2005-06-08 19:37:34
73.   Berkeley Doug
71 - Thanks. It helps ease the disappointment that Graffy couldn't score from 1st on a double.
2005-06-08 19:37:49
74.   Jim Hitchcock
Hi, Steve.
2005-06-08 19:37:55
75.   Marty
I can't believe what I just saw
2005-06-08 19:37:57
76.   Fearing Blue
Maybe he thinks he's still in Vegas?
2005-06-08 19:37:58
77.   Bob Timmermann
Grabbo is coming!

Me Like Grabbo!

2005-06-08 19:38:25
78.   the OZ
WHAT just happened?
2005-06-08 19:38:37
79.   Nick Iyengar
Maybe what happens in Las Vegas eventually trickles into Los Angeles.
2005-06-08 19:39:00
80.   Berkeley Doug
OK I'll take Grabs HR too. :)
2005-06-08 19:39:08
81.   Christina
Good God, Grabowski!
2005-06-08 19:39:14
82.   alex 7
There's something peculiar about a certain guy hitting a homerun and the reaction being something like "dang it, he just bought himself extra time on our roster."
2005-06-08 19:39:54
83.   regfairfield
Hopefully this is a sign of a less sucky Grabowski.

Most likely this just means that we'll be seeing him in every concievable situation fromm now until the end of time.

2005-06-08 19:40:08
84.   the OZ
An enormous young woman just homered to give Michigan a 4-1 lead over UCLA in the top of the 11th inning of the NCAA softball championship.
2005-06-08 19:40:10
85.   Christina
Should we call 911 and tell them to check Steve's house?
2005-06-08 19:40:33
86.   Berkeley Doug
Good guys 2 and bad guys 0 all across the board in the NL West.
2005-06-08 19:41:26
87.   Bob Timmermann
If you are looking for Michigan vs. LA parallels, Michigan went up 4-1 on UCLA in the 10th in the women's softball final.

A 3-run lead in the 10th is sort of like facing the 2003 Gagne down 10 runs.

2005-06-08 19:41:48
88.   Mark
Someone correct me if I'm wrong: doesn't The Principle require that Johnson gets the hook immediately?
2005-06-08 19:43:16
89.   Bob Timmermann
Actually it's 3-0 Cleveland after a Sizemore homer.
2005-06-08 19:44:12
90.   Berkeley Doug
I guess we didn't know that Tracy knew that Grabs was 1-1 in his career against Johnson (going back to A ball) on Wednesday nights against teams from the Midwest so Tracy had to start him.
2005-06-08 19:45:15
91.   Mark
Okay, both teams are tied at 1 in terms of Grabowskis.
2005-06-08 19:45:18
92.   Bob Timmermann
There's our Jeff!
2005-06-08 19:45:26
93.   the OZ
Unfortunately, UCLA had a runner on 3rd, 1 out in the bottom half of the previous inning and failed to score.

I believe all of Michigans runs were unearned in the 10th.

2005-06-08 19:45:30
94.   Fearing Blue
#66: Hitting HRs or ext base hits with the bases empty does matter. Essentially, you can think of batters as having two different capabilities 1) creating run potential (~OBP), and 2) realizing or cashing in run potential (~SLG). A recent academic study developed a near-optimal lineup heuristic based on this split. The first couple guys in the lineup should be high potential, low realization types (i.e. Izturis). The middle of the lineup should be the best all around batters (high potential/high realization). Then the sluggers (low potential/high realization) and last the weak hitters (low potential/low realization). Bradley would either fall into the second or third category for this team.
2005-06-08 19:45:34
95.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, I'm glad we got that outta the way.
2005-06-08 19:45:35
96.   Johnson
All right, who's keeping track of the number of home runs we have allowed to pitchers this year?
2005-06-08 19:45:44
97.   Berkeley Doug
Over/under on number of Green strikeouts against Santana tonight? The line is 3.
2005-06-08 19:46:35
98.   Nick Iyengar
Anyone have an idea of what the record is for most home runs allowed to opposing pitchers?
2005-06-08 19:46:50
99.   the OZ
Santana's actually tougher against RH hitters, so I predict 4 groundouts for Shawn tonight.
2005-06-08 19:46:54
100.   Midwest Blue
I know I'm late, but I'm taking the over. And that Grabs bomb was not the bomb I had in mind.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-06-08 19:47:22
101.   the OZ
Dodgers have now given up 4 HRs to pitchers this year.
2005-06-08 19:47:30
102.   Bob Timmermann

There's been one other hasn't there?

2005-06-08 19:48:46
103.   the OZ
umm...Horacio Ramirez?
2005-06-08 19:48:49
104.   Berkeley Doug
It's now 4-0 Cleveland. Let's hope that Peavy is pulling a Jason Schmidt.
2005-06-08 19:49:27
105.   billfer
Hail to the victors!
2005-06-08 19:49:59
106.   Jim Hitchcock
Yeah, the guy that pitched tha day after Milton?
2005-06-08 19:50:10
107.   Bob Timmermann
I'm more amazed that the Indians have hit 3 runs home runs in one game.

In PETCO no less.

Against a good pitcher.

2005-06-08 19:50:31
108.   Johnson
#102 Bob
Just checked: Milton, Schmidt, and Johnson were all off Weaver. Vazquez got one, but I forget who gave it up.
2005-06-08 19:51:02
109.   Bob Timmermann
Tip of the visor to the Wolverines?

Why can't women wear proper caps?

2005-06-08 19:51:21
110.   Bob Timmermann
Vazquez hit one off of Sanchez.
2005-06-08 19:51:55
111.   Fearing Blue
Besides allowing a ton of HRs in general, Weaver has now allowed HRs to 3 opposing pitchers (Schmidt, Milton, and Johnson). Projecting over the season, that would be 8 HRs allowed to opposing pitchers. That has to be a modern record, right?
2005-06-08 19:52:54
112.   Berkeley Doug
KC escapes a bases loaded 1 out jam without giving up a run.
2005-06-08 19:53:20
113.   rageon
In real #94, I say this out of curiousity and not to argue, but do you have a source for what you just mentioned? I'd love to take a look at it.
2005-06-08 19:53:22
114.   Christina
Visors work better with ponytails.
2005-06-08 19:54:30
115.   Berkeley Doug
Twins have the bases loaded with no outs.
2005-06-08 19:57:09
116.   GoBears
I think I know what happened to Steve. The Grabowski Principle is now in a feedback loop. Pitcher gives up HR to Grabowski, and then homers himself in the next inning. The GP can't handle it. Steve's computer exploded.
2005-06-08 19:58:04
117.   the OZ
The record for HRs hit by a pitcher (non-Ruthian division) in a season is 7, right? Didn't Hampton have that many a few years ago and it was a big deal?

If Weaver allowed 8 HRs to pitchers, (shudder) he would turn his opposing counterparts into a collective Mike Hampton.

2005-06-08 19:58:34
118.   molokai
I think your all so used to Grabbo failing as a PH you've forgotten how solid he was last April/May when he filled in as an outfielder.
2005-06-08 19:58:58
119.   Christina
116 - better Steve's computer than Steve's head.
2005-06-08 19:59:17
120.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume allowing 8 home runs to opposing pitchers would be a record in just about any era.

The number of pitchers who are really good hitters in any one year is pretty small.

Babe Ruth didn't hit many as a pitcher. He hit more than normal. Guy Hecker hit a few home runs in the 1880s, but I don't think the other pitchers in that era hit that many.

Hecker and Jim Tobin of the Braves (1942) are the only two pitchers to hit 3 home runs in one game. Tobin hit his off of two pitchers: Jake Mooty and Hi Bithhorn.

Guy Hecker hit all 3 of his off of one pitcher, Dick Conway.

Mr. Conway meet Mr. Weaver.

2005-06-08 20:00:24
121.   Fearing Blue
#111: A total of 10 HRs have been hit by pitchers in the ML this year. Weaver has given up 30% of them. Duaner has given up one to Javier Vazquez, putting the Dodgers' total at 4 out of 10 allowed. Yuck.
2005-06-08 20:01:44
122.   GoBears
Yeah, I'm thinking that with Steve's computer in tatters, he won't know that DePo didn't toss Erickson to the fishes tonight. Here's irony for you: Grabowski and Weaver may have just combined to save Steve's life.
2005-06-08 20:03:30
123.   Fearing Blue
#113: I have the citation, but you'll likely have to go to your nearest university library to find it:

Sokol, Joel S. "A Robust Heuristic for Batting Order Optimization Under Uncertainty". Journal of Heuristics. Vol. 9, Issue 4, Sep 2003, Pgs. 353 – 370

I've posted this reference before and Bob T pointed out that they don't get a lot of requests for the Journal of Heuristics at his library.

2005-06-08 20:04:38
124.   Johnson
So I went through, and it looks as if the four opposing pitcher home runs already mentioned (Johnson, Schmidt, Milton off of Weaver, Vazquez off of Sanchez) are the only ones we've allowed this year. Dodger pitchers have yet to hit a home run this year - in fact they have only recorded three extra base hits (2 2B for Weaver, 1 2B for Lowe) and 6 RBI (3 each for Weaver and Lowe).
2005-06-08 20:05:00
125.   Fearing Blue
#123: The only really interesting result about this heuristic and other lineup studies I've read is that it's typically best to bat the pitcher 7th or 8th.
2005-06-08 20:06:40
126.   adg
What database are you guys finding this opposing pitcher HR data? Game logs, or something better?
2005-06-08 20:08:13
127.   Berkeley Doug
Come on Grabs. At least get an Olney.
2005-06-08 20:08:45
128.   Johnson
#126 adg
I used Yahoo's "Batter vs Pitcher" data which are available on each player's page, but that's not particularly efficient. I'm sure there's a better way, but I don't know it.
2005-06-08 20:09:46
129.   Fearing Blue
That's the Grabowski we know and love.
2005-06-08 20:10:26
130.   Bob Timmermann
If you're a SABR member, you can access the home run logs for pitchers and hitters.

Not very easily though. You can't query the database, so you have to look for logical suspects.

For example, in 1956 Robin Roberts gave up 46 homers. But looking at who he gave them up to, I see only one pitcher, Al Worthington.

2005-06-08 20:11:32
131.   Fearing Blue
#126: I looked up team batting stats on ESPN, and you can do a split by position (i.e. Pitcher). It listed all 10 HRs by team and then I had to dig into the team stats to figure out who to hit them and see if they were against the Dodgers. Also, not efficient.
2005-06-08 20:12:16
132.   Christina
129 - just as well. Another Grabs homer and we would know the apocalypse is here.
2005-06-08 20:14:28
133.   Christina
"Perez to second on fielder's indifference" - LOL.
2005-06-08 20:15:23
134.   Bob Timmermann
I posted the question to SABR-L and perhaps David Vincent can crank that out.

3 homers to pitchers in one year is a lot.

And it's June 8!

2005-06-08 20:17:38
135.   Bob Timmermann
In 1970, Don Sutton gave up 38 homers.

Only one was to a pitcher: Carl Morton of the Expos.

2005-06-08 20:22:49
136.   Jim Hitchcock
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Steve has had an embolism.
2005-06-08 20:23:52
137.   rageon
#123 - Thanks. The local university's library lists it as one of their electronic holdings, so perhaps the library will have the subscription necessary to view it.
2005-06-08 20:24:43
138.   Bob Timmermann
A check of the 204 homers surrendered by Sandy Koufax didn't turn up any pitchers.

Don Drysdale gave up 280 and none of them were pitchers I believe.

Lots of homers by guys named Mays and Aaron however.

2005-06-08 20:25:11
139.   the OZ
Weaver's thrown 68 pitches thru 5 innings, 50 for strikes.
2005-06-08 20:25:32
140.   Ben P
Given our recent bullpen adventures, it would be nice to get at least 7 IP out of Weaver. He's currently at 68 pitches (50 strikes).
2005-06-08 20:25:57
141.   Ben P
That was a little creepy.
2005-06-08 20:27:04
142.   Christina
136 - or a stroke.

On Memorial Day, I went to that human body exhibit that was in LA for a while and has now moved up to SF. The exhibit includes a brain that's suffered a stroke. It's a horrifyingly fascinating sight. Or fascinatingly horrifying. I haven't decided which.

2005-06-08 20:34:55
143.   Bob Timmermann
I dutifully have gone through all 505 home runs that the Home Run King of Pitchers, Robin Roberts, surrendered.

By my reckoning, six were by pitchers:
Al Worthington
Mudcat Grant
Dick Donovan (2 in one game)
Don Drsydale (2 several years apart)

Roberts pitched 4688 2/3 innings of baseball with no DHs also.

2005-06-08 20:35:47
144.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, all ye of little faith, Weaver made it look easy.
2005-06-08 20:37:59
145.   Fearing Blue
So, what you're telling me Bob is that this guy gave up twice as many HRs to pitchers over his career (4688.2 IP) as Weaver has given up this year (73.1 IP)? That's nice.
2005-06-08 20:40:22
146.   Fearing Blue
Bob, can you check if Weaver has given up any HRs to pitchers prior to this season?
2005-06-08 20:44:27
147.   Bob Timmermann
Weaver gave up a home run to Livan Hernandez last year last year in Montreal. The Dodgers won the game anyway, 10-3.
2005-06-08 20:44:45
148.   Jon Weisman
Part of the problem when Weaver has pitched this year is that when he blows up, he really blows up, and Tracy hasn't had someone ready to replace him quickly enough. Weaver obviously has pitched complete games before, but you just need to be ready when he gets in trouble. Yes, that means warming up pitchers even though they might not get in the game. Life can be hard that way sometimes.
2005-06-08 20:46:35
149.   adg
Someone email Stark over at ESPN, Weaver and the P-Longball has the stuff of great Useless Info.
2005-06-08 20:47:04
150.   Ben P
What do the stats say about who is a better CF between Drew and Bradley? We've had a small sample size this year, but I will say I think Drew looks very smooth out there and always seems to take a good route to the ball.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-06-08 20:47:14
151.   Bob Timmermann
Jeff Weaver might be the only pitcher who has given up home runs to BOTH McKay Christensen and Tyler Houston.
2005-06-08 20:47:20
152.   Jon Weisman
149 - Credit it to Bob Timmermann and/or the Lively Boys
2005-06-08 20:48:19
153.   Bob Timmermann
Jayson Stark will find it out soon enough. If I asked on SABR-L then David Vincent will find it and he will pass it on.
2005-06-08 20:53:07
154.   Nagman
Okay, I gotta ask... does Weaver hit?
2005-06-08 20:54:06
155.   Nagman
#150, I have enjoyed watching Drew in CF and feel he should be the regular there.
2005-06-08 20:54:24
156.   the OZ
Nope. Tracy has to get Robles in the game.

Although it's not cut-and-drty as to whether Weaver SHOULD hit or not.

2005-06-08 20:55:18
157.   the OZ
Or Edwards.
2005-06-08 20:55:58
158.   Fearing Blue
#150: From Baseball Prospectus

JD Drew: 109 Fielding Rate in CF
Milton Bradley: 115 Fielding Rate in CF

So far, the statistics have Bradley slightly better, but they're both better than average.

2005-06-08 20:56:17
159.   Christina
I agree with PHing for Weaver. Mostly because I think that if Tracy lets him go out for another inning and Weaver begins to implode, JT won't get the hook quickly enough.

Weaver's done everything we needed - 7 innings with only one run. Let Ghame/Game Over take over.

2005-06-08 20:56:27
160.   oldbear
I'd pinch hit Saenz in this situation. You gotta hook Weaver.

He's already at 100.

Brazo and Gagne shouild do their jobs in the 8th and 9th. Weaver already dis his job, no need to push that any further.

2005-06-08 20:57:17
161.   fanerman91
I'm also glad Weaver got hooked. Hopefully we can pull this one out. We usually do.
2005-06-08 20:58:10
162.   Christina
Allow me to state the obvious, since Xeifrank isn't here: This would be a really good time for Izzy and Choi to begin heating up.
2005-06-08 20:59:03
163.   Vic
Eel for all!
2005-06-08 20:59:04
164.   Ben P
Choi to the world
2005-06-08 21:00:00
165.   Bob Timmermann
Checking other long time NL pitchers who are active:

Glavine has given up 2 homers to pitchers.

Greg Maddux has given up 0 homers to pitchers.

His brother Mike gave up 2: to Floyd Youmans and Danny Graves.

Can I go back to watching the game?

2005-06-08 21:00:21
166.   fanerman91
Good job Choi. If he starts heating up, the team might just go on a bit of a hot streak.
2005-06-08 21:00:40
167.   Fearing Blue
Choi looks to be warming up. Long fly ball to the warning track followed by an RBI single. Keep him in the #2 slot, please.
2005-06-08 21:00:46
168.   Christina
Happy happy Choi Choi...happy happy Choi Choi...
2005-06-08 21:00:47
169.   the OZ
Part of the benefit of being a 'patience' hitter is that you can often count on first-pitch fastballs.

Choi was waiting for that pitch.

2005-06-08 21:01:14
170.   Johnson
Weaver wore his white hat tonight - 7IP, 2H, 1ER, 7K, 1BB. All things considered, I think I'm willing to forgive the home run (as long as it was hooked around the foul pole out there in the short porch).
2005-06-08 21:01:43
171.   Fearing Blue
#165: You should definitely watch. It's a good one. We're going to get to G(h)ame Over in a bit here.
2005-06-08 21:03:26
172.   Fearing Blue
As usual, Good Weaver = 1 K / IP. That's three Good ones in a row.
2005-06-08 21:04:13
173.   fanerman91
Didn't see Drew's infield single (no game where I'm at), but is it me... or does Drew seem to beat out more than his share of infield grounders? Maybe I'm just used to Shawn Green going for what seemed like weeks of nothing but weak grounders to 2nd.
2005-06-08 21:04:29
174.   Bob Timmermann
John Smoltz has given up 1 home run to a pitcher.

And it was over 10 years ago against Dwight Gooden.

2005-06-08 21:05:43
175.   Christina
Steve may have suffered an embolism AND a stroke.
2005-06-08 21:06:05
176.   Bob Timmermann
Drew didn't beat out his infield hit as much as the pitcher misplayed it.
2005-06-08 21:06:17
177.   Nagman
Phew,I'm glad we didn't score anymore, I might've had to sit thru another Sanchez or Carrara outing.
2005-06-08 21:06:52
178.   Ryan Jerz

Being a production nerd at my local PBS station, I ame across that doc today, and from what I can see, it's awesome. I caught just a bit of it, and we're not airing it here, so I'll have to find a copy somehow, but man what a show that looks to be.

2005-06-08 21:07:11
179.   the OZ
Indians wiggle out of a jam, 5-1 still in the top 8th.
2005-06-08 21:07:18
180.   Christina
173 - where are you? I'm in SF and for some reason the affiliate here thinks we'd rather see the Diamondbacks game than the Dodgers game. Never mind the huge number of SoCal expatriates who live up here. I'd understand a little better if it were the Pads game being shown...sigh.
2005-06-08 21:08:02
181.   Steve
So what's up, everybody?
2005-06-08 21:10:32
182.   Christina
He's alive AND he can type coherently!
2005-06-08 21:10:59
183.   Jim Hitchcock
Steve! We were worried about you!
2005-06-08 21:11:26
184.   Steve
Was there concern?
2005-06-08 21:11:46
185.   Christina
(Who's going to tell Steve?)

[putting 911 on standby]

2005-06-08 21:12:32
186.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Mikey Edwards is our Dave Hansen off the bench. Thanks Mikey.
2005-06-08 21:14:23
187.   Steve
I'm touched. But all this means is that I'm going to have to watch Grabowski hit .100 for yet another year. I just have to learn to cope better.

But this Erickson situation, I think the love is gone.

2005-06-08 21:14:37
188.   Bob Timmermann
Orel Hershiser gave up two home runs to pitchers in his career: Smoltz and Browning.

Don Sutton gave up 5 home runs to pitchers, including the first home run he gave up in the majors, Fergie Jenkins.

Don Sutton gave up home runs to a lot of bad hitters: Sonny Jackson, Johnny Lemaster, guys like that. Usually with no one.

2005-06-08 21:15:08
189.   Christina
Oh all right, I will.

Steve, we had the Grabowski Principle on a loop, Weaver pitched a quality start, and Erickson is still alive.

2005-06-08 21:15:59
190.   Bob Timmermann
And I can now recite from memory all 505 home runs given up by Robin Roberts!
2005-06-08 21:17:28
191.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Don't worry we will see Scottie 1 or 2 more times. We can bag on him again.

The one who wears Dave Roberts pants will be back.

2005-06-08 21:18:52
192.   Mark Linsey
Anyone else having trouble getting the Dodgers feed on MLB.TV? I just got back and was hoping to watch the end of the game but these Detroit announcers are putting me to sleep.
2005-06-08 21:19:32
193.   adg
190 - Which is cooler all 505 dingers or like the first 100 digits of pi?

I guess the former, as jocks tend to be cooler than nerds.

2005-06-08 21:20:10
194.   Christina
191 - that's exactly what we fear.

The only one who still wants to see Erickson is Tracy.

2005-06-08 21:20:26
195.   Steve
I don't think I would have predicted before the game started that Grabowski would hit a home run, Detroit's pitcher would hit a home run, and we would be winning 3-1 with Weaver going off to a standing ovation.
2005-06-08 21:23:55
196.   Christina
That's why they actually play the games...
2005-06-08 21:24:21
197.   Vic
2005-06-08 21:25:07
198.   Steve
I wonder how many D-Backs fans tuned into the exciting debut of Claudio Vargas. Twins 10, D-Backs 0.
2005-06-08 21:26:34
199.   Christina
Or there's the Rockies game. 15-5 White Sox.

I'm still mad they're showing the Diamondbacks game up here rather than the Dodgers game.

2005-06-08 21:26:45
200.   Bob Timmermann
I'm very glad Santana is pitching tonight in Arizona. And not this weekend.

I will get to see Derek Lowe pitch in my "Curse of the Week" game.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-06-08 21:29:10
201.   Christina
Come on, JASON - this is a game for Jasons to homer!
2005-06-08 21:29:33
202.   Vic
Great TV moment..."34,690..." to watch the bullpen catcher adjust his crotch.
2005-06-08 21:30:29
203.   Bob Timmermann
I think Giorratano will have to bat. I don't see any other healthy infielders on Detroit's bench unless Polanco already arrived.
2005-06-08 21:30:36
204.   Steve
Please, don't encourage them.
2005-06-08 21:32:43
205.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Eric doing what he does best, makes big league hitters look foolish.
2005-06-08 21:33:04
206.   Sushirabbit
Hey all, that's right Christina, I was wondering how Steve was taking it all in. Just got back to my PC. So we all agree Erickson can start tomorrow? :-) I have to tell everyone I am really amped for the weekend, UT boy turned Dodger is pitching Friday and my favorite team is playing the team that would be my other favorite if I was going to have another favorite, the Twins. I'm a little worried about our pitching going into the Twins series.

Good to see Ghame Over get through, that.

2005-06-08 21:33:44
207.   Christina
Sportsline does show that Polanco is on the bench.
2005-06-08 21:34:23
208.   Bob Timmermann
Shawn Green has not struck out against Santana tonight. He's 0 for 3 though.
2005-06-08 21:34:47
209.   Bob Timmermann
Polanco is on the bench in theory. But he is not on the bench in person.
2005-06-08 21:35:20
210.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Game Over. Good night fellas and ladies.
2005-06-08 21:36:11
211.   Sushirabbit
I'm hoping Gagne gets the cutter going in time to start in a world series game.
2005-06-08 21:36:14
212.   Steve
209 -- Very metaphysical.

Fortunately, I decided to skip most of this one to catch up with Season 2 of Curb Your Enthusiasm. I don't get HBO.

2005-06-08 21:36:52
213.   Christina
So much for Sportsline's info, Bob.

Still, I can't complain - it continues to be more stable than Gameday.

2005-06-08 21:37:06
214.   Vic
Understandable, Steve. I've been forgoing the early innings lately to catch up on the superb "The Wire."
2005-06-08 21:37:20
215.   Ben P
Slightly less useless info -- Weaver is now a career 14-2 in interleague play.
2005-06-08 21:37:44
216.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Thanks again Scottie, we could have picked up 2 games on the D'Smacks and Padres.
2005-06-08 21:39:54
217.   Steve
Technically, DePodesta still has an hour and twenty minutes.
2005-06-08 21:39:57
218.   Jim Hitchcock
Sushi, it's Penny on Friday, Lowe Saturday, and TBA on Sunday.
2005-06-08 21:41:24
219.   Christina
215 - that's interesting indeed. I guess AL batters require more than one game to make adjustments to Weaver, even though there's plenty of scouting reports on him.
2005-06-08 21:42:44
220.   Christina
Steve, you gave him until 11pm rather than midnight?
2005-06-08 21:43:37
221.   Steve
Midnight MST -- this shouldn't really be a deadline issue.
2005-06-08 21:47:46
222.   Christina
I'm just picky sometimes.
2005-06-08 21:55:50
223.   Woody
Except for the giving up a homer to the pitcher, I can't really think of much to gripe about tonight. Nice for a change. I always love to have a win before an off day.
Gives you a chance to savor it for a little while. Those Twins look pretty intense. Hope we perform well for the weekend.
2005-06-08 21:56:06
224.   Bob Timmermann
I don't want Erickson! I want Barabbas!
2005-06-08 21:59:53
225.   Christina
Now there's a comparison I'd never thought I see.
2005-06-08 22:04:08
226.   Bob Timmermann
Warren Spahn gave up 6 homers to pitchers in his career.

5243 IP!

One of them was to Sandy Koufax, one of two he hit in his career. Denny LeMaster gave up the other.

2005-06-08 22:09:27
227.   fanerman91
Christina (180),

I'm in Berkeley (Go Bears!). I'm truly SICK of watching giants games. At the beginning of the season, I was craving baseball like no other, so I tolerated watching them. But now, I can't STAND to watch one second. I'd rather watch the Royals versus the D-Rays or something. black and orange makes me want to puke. I went to a giants-Dodgers game (the one where Weaver allowed the home run to schmidt). I was very sad. I felt very uneasy just being there. Oh well...

Sadly, I don't mind the A's so much (the DePo-Beane connection combined with the LAAoA fiasco that has mean resenting the Angels a little bit). But they're not a very fun team to watch right now

2005-06-08 22:14:15
228.   fanerman91
Oh yeah, the one good thing about the D-backs telecast was getting to watch Johan pitch. That was great (the parts I saw at least).
2005-06-08 22:37:37
229.   Dodgers Fan in NorCal
227/228: Go Bears! Don't you hate opening the Chronicle every morning and seeing the latest Giants defeat, the Dodgers relegated to a blurb? Refreshing to be down here for a little bit.
2005-06-08 23:01:41
230.   dzzrtRatt
I think it's great that two bete noirs of the Dodgerthoughts posting community combined to put LA in second place tonight. Rave on Jason Grabowski. Rave on Jeff Weaver, you magnificent bastard!
2005-06-08 23:22:33
231.   Xeifrank
The "overs' win tonight. Weaver pitches 7 innings, with a 6 inning over/under line. Overs have won 4 of the last 6 games, and another "over = Dodgers win" game.
vr, Xei
2005-06-08 23:23:16
232.   Xeifrank
Grabowski principle was in full effect tonight. Weaver giving up the home run to the Tigers pitcher, then Grabowski hitting a home run himself. Not sure which is more embarrassing.
vr, Xei
2005-06-08 23:24:12
233.   Xeifrank
Yankees (Arod) broke their 0 for the last 25 with the bases loaded slump.
vr, Xei
2005-06-08 23:25:35
234.   Xeifrank
Tomorrow's another busy day for me, so I will go ahead and post Brad Penny's over/under vs the Twins tomorrow.

7 IPs.

vr, Xei

2005-06-08 23:26:21
235.   Xeifrank
234. Sorry, that over/under is for friday's game.

vr, Xei

2005-06-08 23:27:10
236.   Xeifrank
Jon, how is everything going with the T-Shirt design and logo? Any new website graphical designs in the works?
vr, Xei
2005-06-09 06:25:44
237.   fanerman91
I'm a little behind, but what exactly is the Grabowski Principle?
2005-06-09 07:53:42
238.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Good morning Dodger Fans, felt good waking up this morning after a terrific performance from Weaver last night. Thanks Jeff, by you going 7, JT was forced to not use his 2 favorite middle relief men, Gio and Erickson.

Although it might have crossed JT's mind to somehow find a way to sneak one, if not both of them in somehow.

Thanks Grabbo, Choi, and our little spark plug off the bench, Mikey Edwards.

Mikey, your new nickname is Dave Hansen.

Bring on the Twins!!!!!!!

2005-06-09 08:06:19
239.   db1022
Grabowski Principle:

2005-06-09 09:32:00
240.   Jon Weisman
236 - still need to get a T-shirt designer
2005-06-09 11:42:43
241.   Christina
If Xei is still reading this thread - you got #232 backwards. Grabs hit the home run first. The pitcher was not pulled, and went on to hit a home run himself. Weaver wasn't pulled, and proceeded to pitch several innings of shut-out ball and get the win. Thus the GP went into a feedback loop.

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