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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

How About a Shutout for One Inning?
2005-06-17 14:53
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

Tidbits from the Dodger press notes:

  • The Dodgers are 18-11 when they score first, 15-21 when they don't.

  • They have been outscored in the first two innings this season, 83-59. That includes one particular game in Cincinnati.

  • The Dodgers won five games of their first 14 games in their last at-bat. In the next 51 games, they won two in their last at-bat.

    * * *

    Colorado has returned Rule 5 pick Matt Merricks to the Dodger system, also according to the team's press notes. Merricks has been injured most of the season.

  • Comments (280)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-06-17 15:13:23
    1.   fanerman91
    A shutout in the first inning, particularly, would be a sigh of relief.
    2005-06-17 15:16:20
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    With Buehrle pitching, I wonder if the game will be over by the time I get home around 6:30.

    That guy pitches really quickly.

    2005-06-17 15:17:29
    3.   Jon Weisman
    Houlton would become a folk hero of some indeterminate duration if he could pull off a victory today.
    2005-06-17 15:23:58
    4.   Bob Timmermann
    If Houlton wins today, I promise to name the next cat I get D.J.

    It's the best I can do since it doesn't appear that I'm in the child-producing industry.

    2005-06-17 15:24:31
    5.   LAT
    #3 It does almost have the making of an Edwin Jackson-Big Unit match-up? Let's hope the long term result is better.
    2005-06-17 16:06:25
    6.   Steve
    Memo to Colorado:

    Dear Colorado,

    That's great. Thanks a million.



    2005-06-17 16:09:00
    7.   Bob Timmermann
    Random Dodger game callback

    June 17, 1978

    Coming off a National League pennant the previous year, the Dodgers were headed for a record year of attendance and over 51,000 came to Dodger Stadium on a Saturday night to watch the starters for both the Dodgers and the Montreal Expos falter early. Neither Burt Hooton nor Rudy May could get out of the third inning, but it was the Montreal bullpen that prevailed in a 6-3 win for the Expos. The loss dropped the Dodgers to 35-28 for the season and 5 games behind San Francisco and in third place.

    Hooton let the first two Expos, Dave Cash and Stan Papi reach and Tony Perez singled Cash home to give Montreal a quick 1-0 lead. The Dodgers tied the game in the bottom of the first after back-to-back walks to Davey Lopes and Bill Russell eventually led to a sacrifice fly from Ron Cey.

    But Hooton still was shaky. Larry Parrish singled to lead off the second. After a May sacrifice, Cash drove him home to make it 2-1 Montreal in the second. But May was shakier. He hit Rick Monday to lead off the second and then walked Steve Yeager. Expos manager Dick Williams had seen enough and called for Dan Schatzeder. Hooton singled to load the bases and then Lopes drew a walk to force in a run to tie the game.

    The Expos drove Hooton from the game in the third. Perez and Warren Cromartie hit back-to-back doubles to make it 3-2 Montreal. Cromartie singled to put runners on first and third and Tommy Lasorda had seen enough and brought in Bobby Castillo. Andre Dawson hit a sac fly to make it 4-2 before Castillo got out of the jam.

    The Dodgers threatened in the third a Cey double and a Dusty Baker walk. Schatzeder then balked the runners over. But he got Lee Lacy, filling in for the injured Reggie Smith, to pop out and struck out Monday and Yeager to end the inning.

    The Expos kept coming. In the fifth, walks to Papi, Perez and Valentine loaded the bases. Lance Rautzhan relieved, but gave up a run on a fielder's choice by Dawson and then an RBI single by Gary Carter. The Dodgers would get one more run in the 9th to make it 6-3. The Dodgers stranded 13 runners on the night. Montreal reliever Hal Dues picked up his only major league save with four innings of relief.

    The loss on June 17 ended a seven-game winning streak for the Dodgers, who were starting to catch up to the Giants, who had gotten out of the gate quickly. The Dodgers would catch the Giants, who faded, and Cincinnati, who eventually finished second and clinched the division with a week left in the season. The team finished 95-67.

    The Dodgers suffered a drop in power in 1978. After clouting 191 homers in 1977, the Dodgers hit just 149 in 1978, with Reggie Smith leading the team with 29. Steve Garvey led the NL in hits with 202. It was the fourth time in five years, that Garvey had over 200 hits. Lopes continued with his excellent production at the top of the order with 17 homers and stealing 45 bases in 49 attempts.

    The big hole for the Dodgers was at catcher. Yeager batted .193. The Dodgers decided to bring back Joe Ferguson as help, a trade that would cost them Jeffrey Leonard and Rafael Landestoy (who would be reacquired at an even steeper cost). Rookie Pedro Guerrero came up in September and had 5 hits in just 8 at bats.

    The pitching staff was solid as usual. Hooton led the team with 19 wins and a 2.71 ERA. Tommy John's remarkable comeback continued with a 17-10 mark a 3.30 ERA. Rookie Bob Welch appeared in 23 games and was 7-4 with a 2.02 ERA. Terry Forster saved 22 games.

    The LCS against Philadelphia was not as dramatic as the 1977 matchup. The Dodgers won the first two in Philadelphia, 9-5 and 4-0. John threw a 4-hit shutout in Game 2. Coming back to L.A., the Phillies kept the champagne on ice in Game 3 with a 9-4 win, but the Dodgers won Game 4 in 10 innings 4-3 thanks to a couple of rare misplays in center field by Philadelphia Gold Glover Garry Maddox.

    The World Series was a disappointment. Longtime coach Jim Gilliam died two days before the series started. The Dodgers wore #19 on their sleeves in his memory and won the first two games at Dodger Stadium, 11-5 and 4-3. Game 2 ended with Welch's memorable strikeout of Reggie Jackson.

    But once the Series went to New York, everything went wrong. Graig Nettles put on a Brooks Robinson like performance at third to help Ron Guidry get a 5-1 win in Game 3. In Game 4, a controversial hip check of a throw from Bill Russell by Reggie Jackson led to a Yankee win in 10 innings, 4-3. And in Game 5, the Yankees pounded Hooton, Rauthzan, and Charlie Hough in a 12-2 loss.

    Back in Los Angeles for Game 6, the Yankees finished off the Dodgers, 7-2 and Jackson hit a 2-run homer off of Welch.

    But the people came. 3,347,845 people paid to go to Dodger games in 1978, an average of over 41,000 per game.

    Thanks to the NY Times, and Retrosheet

    2005-06-17 16:11:31
    8.   Marty
    Thanks for reminding me about Nettles in that Series. I still hate him.
    2005-06-17 16:12:02
    9.   Bob Timmermann
    Calling all righties! Report for duty!

    A Perez SS
    Repko RF
    Drew CF (you're excused)
    Kent 2B
    Saenz DH
    Werth LF
    Phillips 1B
    Edwards 3B
    Rose C (?????)

    Pale Hose:
    Podsednik LF
    Iguchi 2B
    Thomas DH
    Konerko 1B
    Rowand CF
    Dye RF
    Pierzynski C
    Crede 3B
    Uribe SS

    2005-06-17 16:12:55
    10.   The Cheat
    The White Sox have outscored their opponents 80-53 in the first two innings.
    2005-06-17 16:13:15
    11.   Bob Timmermann
    Marty has taken over my role of having hatred for a long ago event!


    2005-06-17 16:13:32
    12.   Marty
    Phillips at first?
    2005-06-17 16:14:14
    13.   Fearing Blue
    #12: Tracy has reached new levels with his creativity. I applaud him for that.
    2005-06-17 16:16:05
    14.   Bob Timmermann
    Phillips played first a lot with the Mets.
    2005-06-17 16:18:08
    15.   the OZ
    Un. Believable.

    Does JT know he doesn't have a backup catcher on the bench? This was always a major sticking point for him until it became an excuse to keep Choi out of the lineup.

    2005-06-17 16:18:21
    16.   Steve
    13 -- you call it creativity. I call it arbitrary randomness. Po-tay-toe. Po-tah-toe.
    2005-06-17 16:19:02
    17.   Steve
    Yes, he does! Grabowski's on the bench!
    2005-06-17 16:19:08
    18.   Fearing Blue
    #14: I know, but Tracy had said earlier this season that Phillips would not see any time at first with the Dodgers.

    This lineup suggests that Mike Rose is a better hitter against LHPs than Hee Seop Choi. Does anyone think this could be the case?

    2005-06-17 16:20:06
    19.   Fearing Blue
    #15: Grabowski is our emergency catcher.
    2005-06-17 16:20:51
    20.   Marty
    "His Girl Friday" is on the TV right now. Easily on my top 5 all time best list.
    2005-06-17 16:21:39
    21.   Linkmeister
    I've actually been to a game at New Comiskey Park (I ain't callin' it by its corporate name, thank you). I was at a hotel software conference downtown, and one of the "perks" was a $12.50 ticket to a ball game. For that we got seats up in the upper upper deck way down the right-field line.

    There was a bus to take us to the night game, but we were told there'd be no bus to take us back (Was the reason that the South Side was deemed too dangerous? Dunno). So about 30 of us walked over to the El and rode back downtown at 11:00pm or so. No problems.

    Why isn't this game on FSNW2?

    2005-06-17 16:23:19
    22.   Bob Timmermann
    It's weird in light of the fact that Buehrle isn't all that much harder on lefties than he is on righties.

    The Dodgers in the lineup today that have faced him are:
    Drew (0 for 3)
    Perez (1 for 3)
    Saenz (0 for 5)
    Werth (0 for 2)

    2005-06-17 16:23:25
    23.   the OZ
    I knew that, but I still have a hard time accepting it, especially because this is the first time all season that Grabowski has been treated as the emergency catcher
    2005-06-17 16:23:41
    24.   Jon Weisman
    There's no problem having your backup catcher in the game as long as he isn't the DH.

    And to an extent, I can understand Choi sitting against the tough, tough lefty.

    And to an extent, I like giving Rose some at-bat opportunities.

    But unless he's hurt, there's no doubt in my mind that Choi should be in the lineup today. Bat him ninth, if you must, but this is an absolute wasted opportunity to develop the guy as a full-time player.

    2005-06-17 16:24:09
    25.   Steve
    For all we know at this point, Mike Rose may be the fourth best hitter in that lineup.
    2005-06-17 16:25:19
    26.   Marty
    The game is on KCOP, channell 13 in L.A.
    2005-06-17 16:25:40
    27.   Marty
    Make that channel 13. It's not a perfume
    2005-06-17 16:25:51
    28.   the OZ
    Based on this season, Jim Tracy might be most fairly described as a guy who knows WHAT he wants to do, but not WHY.
    2005-06-17 16:27:20
    29.   Bob Timmermann
    The game tonight is one of the few that is being shown on KCOP. So, it won't be on Extra Innings unless it's a Sox broadcast.

    If that's the case, may God have mercy on all of you.

    However, Lyons won't be at today or tomorrow's game. He has duty for big Fox. So I don't know who's going to be with Steiner tonight. A. Martinez is doing radio. I don't know whether they are shifting over Monday or Downing.

    May God have mercy on us too!

    2005-06-17 16:27:36
    30.   Steve
    If he ever wants to pull Rose, he can do a Bugs Bunny conga line around the bases, moving Phillips to catcher, Kent to first, Perez to second, and inserting Robles at SS. Or he can move Phillips down and play Grabowski at first, if he wants to continue with the wacky clever bit. Or he can move Edwards out into the outfield, have Repko come into play short, and move Perez over to third.

    One of the advantages of making up a lineup solely with players who can play four or more positions. Of course the disadvantage is that they had to learn all those positions because none of them can hit enough to claim one position.

    2005-06-17 16:28:59
    31.   Jon Weisman
    I propose that every time something goes horribly wrong for the Dodgers tonight, someone says, "Oh, there there. That's okay."

    And if something goes incredibly right, someone says, "Ahhhh, that's better."

    2005-06-17 16:29:17
    32.   Bob Timmermann
    So far this season, righthanders are batting .243 against Buehrle.
    Lefthanders are batting .237.
    2005-06-17 16:30:38
    33.   Jon Weisman
    Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how A does on radio. But I'll be missing the broadcast.

    Bob, can you find the boxscore of the Billy Martin-managed (I think) pull a lineup at random game?

    2005-06-17 16:31:30
    34.   Steve
    I like how "incredibly right" was qualified with an "if" and that the opposite implication was that multiple things will go horribly wrong.
    2005-06-17 16:33:58
    35.   Linkmeister
    Hey! We're tied for 8th in the major leagues for runners left on base!

    2005-06-17 16:34:07
    36.   Jon Weisman
    It's all about framing expectations, isn't it...
    2005-06-17 16:35:48
    37.   Steve
    Whatever the over is on Houlton, I'll take it. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.
    2005-06-17 16:36:38
    38.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    Hi, everyone.
    I'm back from moving myself and GF across the nation (halfway across, in her case). We were in KC on Tuesday night. Exciting game - shame it couldn't have ended better.
    So, have I missed anything? Like, Gagne getting hurt?
    2005-06-17 16:39:02
    39.   LAT
    AZ up 1-0 on a Royce Clayton HR.
    2005-06-17 16:41:04
    40.   the OZ
    August 13, 1972 - Billy Martin pulls his lineup out of a hat to stop the Tigers' 4-game losing streak. His best slugger lead off, and his worst hitter hit cleanup.

    .259 .338 .445 Cash 1b
    .261 .324 .362 Northrup rf
    .231 .293 .387 Horton lf
    .203 .259 .279 Brinkman ss
    .303 .346 .404 Taylor 2b
    .316 .432 .480 Sims c (98 ABs)
    .234 .278 .395 Stanley cf
    .236 .272 .356 Rodriguez 3b
    .125 .125 .125 Fryman p

    The Tigers won that game, then lost the second game of the doubleheader with the 'regular' lineup.

    2005-06-17 16:43:33
    41.   Jon Weisman
    Thanks, Oz. How did Cash and Brinkman do in the game?
    2005-06-17 16:44:51
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    The "random" game was April 20, 1977. Blue Jays at the Yankees

    The Yankees started:
    Randolph 2b
    Munson C
    Jackson RF
    Nettles 3B
    Rivers CF
    White LF
    May DH
    Chambliss 1B
    Dent SS

    The Yankees won 7-5 and Martin kept the same lineup through a 5-game winning streak.

    In 1972 Martin did the same thing with the Tigers in the first game of a doubleheader against Cleveland. He ended up with Eddie Brinkman (who was Oscar Robles at the plate) batting cleanup. Brinkman had a game-tying double in that game. But Martin went back to his regular lineup in Game 2 and the Tigers got crushed as some bum named Tom Timmermann gave up 5 runs in 4 2/3 innings, including a 2-run homer to Ray Fosse.

    2005-06-17 16:45:24
    43.   LAT
    Watching the D'Back game and they just put up an awful stat. In the last week the three NL leaders in RBI are Derick Lee, Louis Gonzalaz and ugh, Daryl Ward. all with 12. That's just wrong to have Derick Lee and Daryl Ward mentioned in the same sentance.
    2005-06-17 16:46:19
    44.   ROC
    re: #24...unless the starting catcher & 1B collide on a pop up. Hmmm, now I won't be able to sleep if that actualy happens.

    For HDTV fans, tonight's game is on InHD nationally...and Sunday's is on ESPN-HD. Almost makes up for the fact that tomorrow's game is one of only 5 games all season that I can't see on TV here in AZ.

    re: #29...I actually have local cable to supplement my DirecTV Extra Innings just for the Dodger game or two a month InHD carries.

    2005-06-17 16:46:52
    45.   the OZ
    Here's a link.

    Brinkman had a hit, run, and RBI. Cash was 2-4 without scoring or driving in a run. Horton had a three-hit game, but no player had more than 1 RBI. It looked to be a game of very timely hitting.

    2005-06-17 16:48:06
    46.   the OZ
    What Bob said is better.
    2005-06-17 16:49:20
    47.   LAT
    #30 Just one time I want to see Tracey put Phillips in a position where he has to run. I love watching that guy run. It contradicts all the laws of nature. Run Jason Run!!!
    2005-06-17 16:50:56
    48.   LAT
    Now 3-1 Az.
    2005-06-17 16:52:41
    49.   Bob Timmermann
    Tom Timmermann must have been happy that he had the "regular" lineup that game. But Billy Martin hated him. Probably because he wasn't all that good.

    The Tigers had scored just 3 runs in the previous four games when Martin pulled out the hat.

    In 1977 the Yankees had lost five straight and had been shut out by Bill Travers and held to one run by Dave Lemanczyk.

    2005-06-17 16:52:43
    50.   Fearing Blue
    #32: Again I will state that it seems like Tracy actively looks for reasons not to play Choi. Perhaps he is taking out the LoDuca trade on him.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-06-17 16:56:52
    51.   Marty
    Lyons must have convinced Tracy that Choi is a rally-killer
    2005-06-17 17:00:53
    52.   Marty
    Downing on the TV broadcast. Oh there there, that's okay...
    2005-06-17 17:01:08
    53.   LAT
    Hitfest in Clev. Now 4-3 Indians
    2005-06-17 17:03:31
    54.   Bob Timmermann
    Do I need to lop off my ears for tonight?
    2005-06-17 17:04:54
    55.   Marty
    We may not get a correct player name, or intelligent comment the whole game. It may just be worth recording.
    2005-06-17 17:05:16
    56.   Jon Weisman
    52 - Lovely. Well done.
    2005-06-17 17:05:22
    57.   Marty
    Cora not playing for the Indians. That's got to piss Lima off.
    2005-06-17 17:06:48
    58.   LAT
    Jose Hernandez hits RBI single
    2005-06-17 17:07:35
    59.   Fearing Blue
    I tried to break down Choi's season into the stretches where he was batting 2nd regularly.

    April 5th - April 13th: Batting 2nd twice & 8th twice / Does not start 3 of 7 games / OPS .330
    April 13th - May 11th: Batting 2nd / Starts 18 of 26 games / OPS .300 -> .969
    May 12th: Batting 5th / OPS .969 -> .965
    May 13th - May 21st: Batting 2nd / Starts 4 of 8 games / OPS .965 -> .952
    May 22nd - June 7th: Batting 2nd once, 3rd twice, 6th once, & 7th 5 times / Starts 9 of 17 games / OPS .952 -> .739
    June 8th - June 14th: Batting 2nd / Starts 5 of 5 games / OPS .739 -> .871
    June 15th - June 16th: Batting 6th / Starts 2 of 2 games / OPS .871 -> .852
    June 17th: Does not play

    Dear Jim Tracy,

    Please bat Choi second and play him regularly until he stops performing instead of leaving him out of the lineup and moving him around until you find a spot where he is no longer comfortable.

    Thank you!

    2005-06-17 17:07:51
    60.   LAT
    #54 Let's hope we don't have to gouge out our eyes for tonight.
    2005-06-17 17:09:23
    61.   Jon Weisman
    Do you really think an individual player is affected by where he bats in the lineup? Don't you think it's more likely that the statistical difference has much to do with random chance?

    Consistent playing time makes sense. Consistent batting spot, I wouldn't think that would matter.

    2005-06-17 17:10:23
    62.   Bob Timmermann
    There there, that's OK
    2005-06-17 17:11:54
    63.   Fearing Blue
    Wohoo! MLBEI has blessed me with a night of the White Sox announcers. You can put it on the board... YES!
    2005-06-17 17:12:05
    64.   Jim Hitchcock
    I picked a very bad day to have my ear wax removed...
    2005-06-17 17:12:58
    65.   Fearing Blue
    #61: I agree, but Tracy always puts lame hitting rookies in the #2 spot, so he must think it helps them. I'm trying to appeal to his thought process.
    2005-06-17 17:13:11
    66.   Dodgerkid
    I picked a very bad day to quit sniffing glue.
    2005-06-17 17:15:30
    67.   joekings
    Perhaps Rose is better at throwing out people than Phillips?
    2005-06-17 17:15:48
    68.   joekings
    I jinxed him.
    2005-06-17 17:15:52
    69.   Marty
    Is that Tim Raines out there at first base coach?
    2005-06-17 17:16:07
    70.   LAT
    #61 I dunno Jon. On my home course, I know I own the 5th hole and know the 7th eats me up every time (and 7th is an easier hole.) Point is its mental, I just feel I am going to dominate the 5th and get intimidated by the 7th. Don't you think Choi thinks he owns the two spot?
    2005-06-17 17:16:16
    71.   Jim Hitchcock
    Like the new hairdo, though, Dodgerkid :)
    2005-06-17 17:16:33
    72.   Bob Timmermann
    It should be Tim Raines.

    Harold Baines is the bench coach to add to confusion.

    2005-06-17 17:16:52
    73.   overkill94
    Hey DJ stop letting hitters get on, all niiiight, ooooon and ooooon and ooooooon
    2005-06-17 17:17:53
    74.   LAT
    How do I set "There There, That's OK" as a macro so I can cut down on key strokes?
    2005-06-17 17:18:48
    75.   Marty
    What's your home course LAT?
    2005-06-17 17:20:13
    76.   Bob Timmermann
    Meanwhile in Cleveland, it's 10-3 Indians.
    2005-06-17 17:20:14
    77.   joekings
    Maybe Rose would like to think about covering the bag.
    2005-06-17 17:20:14
    78.   overkill94
    Sweet Edwards, way to cover the bag, no wonder you were in the minors so long.
    2005-06-17 17:21:04
    79.   Bob Timmermann
    That's two straight games, the Dbacks have given up a 10-run inning.
    2005-06-17 17:21:47
    80.   LAT
    Marty, Hillcrest if my father invites me to play, otherwise Rancho. I was refering to Hillcrest.

    Sox on pace to steal 27 tonight

    2005-06-17 17:23:05
    81.   joekings
    So much for the first inning shutout.
    2005-06-17 17:23:41
    82.   overkill94
    Rose definitely missed him on that one.
    2005-06-17 17:24:32
    83.   Marty
    I've not had the privelege of playing Hillcrest. Rancho is very tough for a muni. Brookside is my home course now
    2005-06-17 17:27:09
    84.   LAT
    Rancho is tough for a muni but its the 6 hour round that kills you.
    2005-06-17 17:27:31
    85.   Im So Blue
    Indians scored 10 in the bottom of the 2nd. It's now CLE 10, ARI 3 in the top of the 3rd. Ahhhh, that's better.
    2005-06-17 17:28:01
    86.   Jim Hitchcock
    Anybody hear the Twilight Zone theme just played at the stadium? How appropriate.
    2005-06-17 17:31:12
    87.   LAT
    I hate to say this because I am one of the few here who likes Greenie, but Old Maid has turned into Green--can't hit with men on.
    2005-06-17 17:31:24
    88.   Marty
    84. You got that right. It's no new thing either. It was 6 hours back in the '80s too.
    2005-06-17 17:31:49
    89.   LAT
    Jim Lett has some serious cab door ears there.
    2005-06-17 17:33:12
    90.   joekings
    Man, Werth is struggling mightily.
    2005-06-17 17:33:21
    91.   overkill94
    So when does this team-wide slump end?
    2005-06-17 17:34:06
    92.   LAT
    I hate how he just stands there looking at strike three, like how did that happen?
    2005-06-17 17:35:56
    93.   Marty
    91. Won't go much past the last half of September.
    2005-06-17 17:37:31
    94.   Jon Weisman
    Let's give Werth some of the same patience that Choi deserved. Werth was injured, and he did hit last year. He's only had 75 AB this year.
    2005-06-17 17:37:33
    95.   Berkeley Doug
    Well I'm off to see the A's and the Phillies. I hope the Dodgers soon to be 5th starter (Barry Zito) does well tonight.
    2005-06-17 17:39:17
    96.   joekings
    I thought the white sox hated walking.
    2005-06-17 17:39:38
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    The NL West stays firmly in "R".

    Padres are down 2-0 in Minnesota.

    2005-06-17 17:40:26
    98.   Bob Timmermann
    If Pierzynski gets a walk, then it's time for prayer.
    2005-06-17 17:41:05
    99.   Berkeley Doug
    But the Giants are winning 4-0. They may be 8 games back, but considering how SD, ARZ, and LA are playing I wouldn't count them out.
    2005-06-17 17:41:08
    100.   Jon Weisman
    News that makes me sad - Pedro Astacio DFAed.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-06-17 17:42:06
    101.   Berkeley Doug
    #100 Let's try to pick him up. I'm not sure about the salary implication, but I would take him over Erickson.
    2005-06-17 17:42:39
    102.   Jon Weisman
    Is Thompson unavailable tonight? Does that mean we might see Erickson in back-to-back games?
    2005-06-17 17:43:17
    103.   LAT
    News that makes me sad - Scott Erickson NOT DFAed.
    2005-06-17 17:44:21
    104.   LAT
    Min HR 3-0
    2005-06-17 17:44:34
    105.   Jon Weisman
    The point Steve has been making on FJT is well taken. It really is something to see these other teams let go of players, but not the Dodgers with Erickson - whatever the injury situation is.
    2005-06-17 17:44:49
    106.   Jim Hitchcock
    Astacio was a true gamer. He really picked it up after the MArtinez arm injury.
    2005-06-17 17:45:15
    107.   Bob Timmermann
    The Giants are going to need a LOT of help to get out of their hole.
    2005-06-17 17:45:17
    108.   Jon Weisman
    Four runs in 2/3 IP for Herges. Who's next for him, Bob - Colorado?
    2005-06-17 17:46:11
    109.   Heads22

    I'm from

    We've been doing something where we invite (intelligent) opposing fans to post on our boards for a series or longer if they like.

    My dad's a Dodger fan, so I would tend to think you guys are intelligent. :)

    If you guys don't want to, that's fine, but we like seeing opposing viewpoints. We love Buehrle, but do you guys think he's taht good, etc.?


    2005-06-17 17:47:33
    110.   Bob Timmermann
    Schmidt is pitching a shutout in Detroit, but he's got only 3 strikeouts. Looks like he's getting a lot of fly balls in Detroit. His pitch count is relatively low also.
    2005-06-17 17:47:54
    111.   Langhorne
    Would the appropriate name for this team be:

    Los Angeles Dodgers of Las Vegas


    Las Vegas 51's of Los Angeles

    2005-06-17 17:47:59
    112.   Heads22
    I forgot to mention that if you do so, go to the forum named "Around the Horn".

    I can throw up a link in the thread back to you guys if you'd like.

    2005-06-17 17:48:12
    113.   LAT
    I actually feel bad for Herges. He is not as bad as he has been pitching.
    2005-06-17 17:50:07
    114.   Jim Hitchcock
    Thanks for the offer, Heads22...speaking for myself, I'm kinda busy wallowing in my depression at the moment :)
    2005-06-17 17:50:15
    115.   Bob Timmermann
    Are all the line shots that Herges is giving up an illusion? He's like Erickson except he picks up a strikeout every now and then.
    2005-06-17 17:50:56
    116.   Linkmeister
    A gracious invitation from the SoxTalk folks, I'd say.

    Somebody named KJ Choi is tied for 2nd, one stroke back, at the US Open. Shouldn't our Choi be playing?

    2005-06-17 17:51:52
    117.   The Cheat
    I've always wondered how "heads" got her nickname....
    2005-06-17 17:52:08
    118.   LAT
    #114 plus I may say something I'll regret. I'm more comfortable with those that feel my pain.
    2005-06-17 17:52:13
    119.   Heads22

    We've also done this with USS Mariner, if it means anything.

    2005-06-17 17:56:07
    120.   Heads22
    Don't listen to Cheat. He's originally form Iowa, like myself...
    2005-06-17 17:57:27
    121.   LAT
    My wife is from Iowa. Fort Dodge
    2005-06-17 17:58:42
    122.   Marty
    Wow LAT, my best friend is from Fort Dodge
    2005-06-17 17:59:03
    123.   Heads22
    I'm not too far from there....
    2005-06-17 18:00:41
    124.   LAT
    Hey, Marty we know half the population of Fort Dodge! What's your buddy's name-when she gets home I'll ask my wife if she know the family
    2005-06-17 18:01:49
    125.   Heads22
    So....what DO other fans think of Buehrle?
    2005-06-17 18:02:02
    126.   Bob Timmermann
    3-2 Twins now.
    2005-06-17 18:02:55
    127.   Bob Timmermann
    To Dodger fans, Buehrle looks to be a little bit better than Jose Lima. But that's because Lima gave up one run to the Dodgers.
    2005-06-17 18:02:58
    128.   LAT
    Heads, I've been there, ain't nothing "not too far from there." Have you ever been to the Fort? Forget Disneyland. The Fort is a real attraction.
    2005-06-17 18:04:02
    129.   Bob Timmermann
    Padres have caught the Twins.
    2005-06-17 18:06:13
    130.   Marty
    Her maiden name is Koenig. She's my age, so she went to college in the mid-70's
    2005-06-17 18:06:16
    131.   Heads22
    Never had to go there. I'm in Oelwein.

    We love Buehrle. I'm starting to think you Dodger fans would kill for a guy who leads the league in innings and never gets hurt. Also, he was named as like one of the few players with a real chance to get to 300 wins.

    2005-06-17 18:07:55
    132.   Marty
    Their high school nickname is Dodgers
    2005-06-17 18:08:39
    133.   DeucesAreWild
    Does Werth hit his first HR by the All Star Break?
    2005-06-17 18:08:58
    134.   Jim Hitchcock
    Buehrle does seem to be giving up an inordinate amount of pop-ups :)
    2005-06-17 18:12:50
    135.   Heads22
    Lol.....he'll do that...
    2005-06-17 18:13:02
    136.   LAT
    Yep Marty, When she and I started dating she brought me a Fort Dodge Dodgers shirt.
    2005-06-17 18:13:25
    137.   Jim Hitchcock
    Way to tip the trivia question, Downing. And what happened to Aflac?
    2005-06-17 18:13:39
    138.   DeucesAreWild
    If this was a fight, they'd stop it.
    2005-06-17 18:16:02
    139.   brendan glynn
    what is more improbable? Dodgers scoring 4 runs tonight or the White Sox not scoring again.
    2005-06-17 18:16:05
    140.   Humma Kavula
    If the Dodgers were a horse, they'd shoot it.
    2005-06-17 18:16:49
    141.   Marty
    Downing gave away the AFLAC answer?
    2005-06-17 18:17:01
    142.   Heads22
    Sox could very easily stop scoring. Usually they look like crap against young starters.
    2005-06-17 18:18:20
    143.   Jim Hitchcock
    Too funny, Steiner.
    2005-06-17 18:18:32
    144.   Marty
    Steiner. Fly ball short left, as thje fielder goes to the wall.
    2005-06-17 18:19:01
    145.   brendan glynn
    how do they look against crap young starters though?
    2005-06-17 18:20:01
    146.   Jim Hitchcock
    141 - Well, he said who he thought it the last WHite Sox ROTY was. But the trivia question was sponsored by Nissan.
    2005-06-17 18:21:30
    147.   Heads22
    Normally, if some team has a new callup or something, the Sox struggle mightily.

    Of course, Buehrle's having a mediocre game tonite and you wouldn't notice.

    2005-06-17 18:22:38
    148.   Marty
    Steiner called him on it!
    2005-06-17 18:23:11
    149.   Heads22
    That's tres for Pods.
    2005-06-17 18:23:13
    150.   Jim Hitchcock
    Note to Al Downing: Steve Lyons was sent to his room for less.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-06-17 18:23:13
    151.   alex 7
    4 1/2 is the over / under on pitches before Scott steals 2nd.
    2005-06-17 18:26:49
    152.   the OZ
    Revisiting tonight's lineup, I had this conversation with my dad, an engineer and casual fan:

    ME: "Against a LHP without much of a L/R split, the Catcher is playing 1B and the backup catcher is catching. Choi is sitting."

    MY DAD: "That's stupid."

    Stupid, indeed.

    2005-06-17 18:29:11
    153.   alex 7
    2 pitches, under wins
    2005-06-17 18:29:54
    154.   Heads22
    How is Wunsch doing out there?
    2005-06-17 18:31:22
    155.   Jim Hitchcock
    154 - At an inning or two a week, it's kinda hard to tell.
    2005-06-17 18:32:21
    156.   Fearing Blue
    #155: It would be nice if he would throw an inning every once in while. He faces about 2 batters a week.
    2005-06-17 18:32:22
    157.   LAT
    Heads, Score is 4-0 bases full. How do you think?
    2005-06-17 18:32:56
    158.   Jim Hitchcock
    Where has that pitch been tonight?
    2005-06-17 18:34:16
    159.   Fearing Blue
    Heads22, I have a question. Do you hate your announcers as much as we do? They're perhaps the worst in the majors.
    2005-06-17 18:34:46
    160.   Heads22
    Wunsch always seemed like a great LOOGY here. There seemed to be a falling out after he became the player rep.
    2005-06-17 18:35:21
    161.   Heads22
    They grow on you if you're a Sox fan. You'll find differing opinions on our board.
    2005-06-17 18:35:23
    162.   alex 7
    Houlton has gotten out of a few jams this year. He nodded at Weaver in the dugout and said "that's how it's done."

    ok, he didn't, but still...

    2005-06-17 18:36:25
    163.   Blue in SF
    Heads22 - you guys should consider offering Buehrle for Vin Scully, straight up. Cause those "commentators" out there on the South Side....well....I'll stop here so I can still pass for "intelligent".
    2005-06-17 18:37:30
    164.   LAT
    Sorry Heads, I misread your #154. Apprently Wunch, DJ, Thompson etc all look the same to me.
    2005-06-17 18:38:07
    165.   Fearing Blue
    #161: Growing up with Vin, who is pretty neutral, it's painful to listen to such homers.

    "You can put it on the board.. YES!"
    "He gone!"
    "Good guys"

    It's like these fools get a bonus every time they say something stupid.

    2005-06-17 18:39:41
    166.   Fearing Blue
    Does anyone know why Houlton is still on the mound?
    2005-06-17 18:40:05
    167.   alex 7
    game just might be over in 2 hours. This road trip is getting annoyingly predictable. Give up a few runs in the first 4 innings, carry no momentum down the stretch, scratch out a few runs in the middle to late innings, game over.
    2005-06-17 18:40:46
    168.   Heads22
    Scully is one of a kind.

    What don't you guys like about our pair? I'm intrigued. I grew up listening to Harrellson and Jackson is in like his fifth or sixth year.

    2005-06-17 18:41:43
    169.   Heads22
    I think that was Buehrle's 41st straight start of at least 6 innings.
    2005-06-17 18:42:35
    170.   Heads22
    They've always been homers. When the Sox are losing though, I've known them to express their displeasure, too.
    2005-06-17 18:44:56
    171.   the OZ
    Twins had the bases loaded, no out and failed to score against the Padres.
    2005-06-17 18:45:33
    172.   alex 7
    FB, Tracy has played the last two games like he's afraid of using his Gagne-deprived bullpen. He appears to be saving the few quality arms in his pen for when the Dodgers are actually in a game or, gasp, have a lead.
    2005-06-17 18:47:12
    173.   Fearing Blue
    #172: That's a good point. We're already down by four. It's probably best to save the best for another day.
    2005-06-17 18:53:55
    174.   Heads22
    Buehrle makes it look so easy.
    2005-06-17 18:53:57
    175.   Fearing Blue
    Not a horrible outing for Houlton. Going six innings and giving up 4 runs will usually keep the team in the game.
    2005-06-17 18:54:26
    176.   Fearing Blue
    #174: Lima made it look so easy against our lineup, so don't get too excited.
    2005-06-17 18:56:03
    177.   Bob Timmermann
    Houlton was good, but it was no quality start!
    2005-06-17 18:56:22
    178.   Bob Timmermann
    Houlton was good, but it was no quality start!
    2005-06-17 18:57:04
    179.   Bob Timmermann
    Sorry about that, but my cat walked on the keyboard as I was typing. Then she walked back the other way.

    She will not have her name changed to DJ.

    2005-06-17 18:58:31
    180.   the OZ
    Erickson Time.
    2005-06-17 18:58:57
    181.   Fearing Blue
    "Stay fair.. stay fair. It will! You can put it on the board.. YES!"

    That's why we don't like them.

    2005-06-17 19:00:20
    182.   Dodgerkid
    According to, Derek Thompson might need Tommy John surgery. Evidentally he didn't get a full Tommy John originally and the same ligament is bugging him again. This is the season from hell.
    2005-06-17 19:00:56
    183.   Fearing Blue
    vs. Random Neutral Announcer:

    "A line drive deep to left. If it stays fair it's gone. And it's gone! A two-run homerun by Frank Thomas."

    2005-06-17 19:01:14
    184.   Jim Hitchcock
    179 - Damn glad it doesn't poop on the keyboard like my parrot, Bob.
    2005-06-17 19:01:26
    185.   Fearing Blue
    #182: But that prognosis was by Dr. Thompson himself :).
    2005-06-17 19:01:34
    186.   the OZ
    I'm still convinced that Scott Erickson is systematically slicing tendons as our pitchers sleep to ensure his roster spot.
    2005-06-17 19:01:42
    187.   Marty
    there there. that's okay
    2005-06-17 19:02:28
    188.   Heads22
    I'm gonna step out on a limb and say Buehrle is not Lima and Lima is not Buehrle.
    2005-06-17 19:03:01
    189.   Fearing Blue
    The sad thing is that even after we DFA Erickson, Carrara will still be on the team.
    2005-06-17 19:03:09
    190.   Jim Hitchcock
    Oh, come on, way in San Jose was that a `purpose pitch'.
    2005-06-17 19:03:17
    191.   Marty
    For one thing, he'd have to have herpes to be like Lima...
    2005-06-17 19:03:28
    192.   bokonon42
    Any chance the Dodgers fight better than they pitch? I wouldn't be opposed to seeing both benches clear, here.
    2005-06-17 19:03:30
    193.   LAT
    Marty, Wife is home: she knew a Sue Koenig but she would be 40 or 41.
    2005-06-17 19:04:05
    194.   Bob Timmermann
    I think it's time to see how Erickson does on back-to-back nights. He might have to move in to the closer role.
    2005-06-17 19:04:30
    195.   Fearing Blue
    #188: Indeed. I'm just pointing out that shutting down our lineup isn't really anything to be proud of. It's more an issue of shame on our side.
    2005-06-17 19:05:11
    196.   Marty
    Jeez, I think that's her little sister! My friend's name is Lisa and her little sister is Suzy. She has a middle sister Julie
    2005-06-17 19:05:42
    197.   heato
    Hey, the Red Sox went on a hot streak last year after they got into the fight with the Yankees. Maybe a good fight is what they need.
    2005-06-17 19:05:54
    198.   Fearing Blue
    Rose just gave Carrara the "slow down" sign. Is that possible?
    2005-06-17 19:06:28
    199.   Heads22
    I know what you mean. Our lineup was crap earlier this year. Don't ask me how we have the best record in the MLB.

    Oh wait, pitching...

    2005-06-17 19:08:19
    200.   bokonon42
    197- Plus, now that they've been warned, Tracy would be suspended. Maybe Erickson could come in for the next beanball.
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-06-17 19:09:26
    201.   Fearing Blue
    #199: Unfortunately, we have neither at this point. Your hot streak at the beginning of the year was strange. Your hitters were hitting horribly and the pitchers were pitching out of their minds. Now they've both levelled off somewhere in the middle.
    2005-06-17 19:09:58
    202.   Marty
    LAT, I can picture your conversation with your wife. "Honey, there's this guy I know on the internet. He wants to know about your hometown...."
    2005-06-17 19:11:31
    203.   Heads22
    And Buehrle's back out for the 8th.
    2005-06-17 19:11:57
    204.   Bob Timmermann
    Tracy wouldn't be suspended most likely. He would be ejected, but unless he actively provokes something, he would just get booted.
    2005-06-17 19:12:39
    205.   LAT
    Marty, My wife says that's them. My wife is also one of three sisters Lisa, Lynn and Teri Koppen
    2005-06-17 19:13:51
    206.   Fearing Blue
    Edwin Jackson didn't do to well in his AA debut tonight:

    5.0 IP; 6 H; 7 R; 4 ER; 1 BB; 3 K; 2 HR

    Of course he wasn't helped out by the following:

    E: Guzman (14, throw), LaRoche 3 (3, throw, fielding, throw).

    That's some shaky defense from the new left side of the infield.

    2005-06-17 19:14:23
    207.   LAT
    #202 almost word for word.
    2005-06-17 19:14:54
    208.   Marty
    Which one is she? I'll call my friend as soon as she gets home.
    2005-06-17 19:15:04
    209.   bokonon42
    204- My bad. I thought any beanball after a warning was worth an explusion from the game and a suspension from the next one, for the manager.
    2005-06-17 19:15:27
    210.   Jim Hitchcock
    Hit. DP. Hit. DP. Quite a rythym we got going here tonight.
    2005-06-17 19:16:16
    211.   LAT
    Marty, I am greatful for our little sidebar. It has distracted me from one of the worst games of the year.
    2005-06-17 19:17:14
    212.   Marty
    what game :)
    2005-06-17 19:17:55
    213.   LAT
    #210 good thing we got cought stealing so we could break up that hit. DP. Hit. DP rythym.

    Marty, Teri

    2005-06-17 19:18:01
    214.   Fearing Blue
    Please let Erickson implode.
    2005-06-17 19:18:04
    215.   Heads22
    I'm glad I could help long lost friends find each other, if in some small way. :)
    2005-06-17 19:18:35
    216.   Marty
    Downing just criticized a Sox player for swinging hard.
    2005-06-17 19:20:30
    217.   The Cheat
    Joe Crede can make Erickson look good
    2005-06-17 19:20:31
    218.   LAT
    OMG Scotty leads with a K.
    2005-06-17 19:20:32
    219.   The Cheat
    Joe Crede can make Erickson look good
    2005-06-17 19:20:32
    220.   Fearing Blue
    Crede.. Crede.. Crede.. That's at least 3 more weeks we have to see Erickson because of you.
    2005-06-17 19:21:48
    221.   Bob Timmermann
    217, 219
    My cat is not responsible for that.
    2005-06-17 19:22:26
    222.   Jim Hitchcock
    About the worst thing I can say about the White Sox tonight is they have a lot of players with weird last names starting in P.
    2005-06-17 19:23:24
    223.   Fearing Blue
    Phillips plays ground balls at first base like you'd expect a catcher to. He gets low and blocks it with his chest. He should teach that to Choi who tries to swipe at the ball too often.
    2005-06-17 19:23:53
    224.   The Cheat
    I just found the internet today. I'm still figuring things out.
    2005-06-17 19:24:28
    225.   LAT
    The worst thing I can say about the White Sox tonight is they went down to Mr. Lisa 1-2-3. Now that's bad even if they are kicking our butt.
    2005-06-17 19:25:31
    226.   Fearing Blue
    "The Dodgers just coming off of being swept by.. Kansas City (in amazement)." That at least was amusing.
    2005-06-17 19:25:44
    227.   LAT
    We should have tried that earlier
    2005-06-17 19:26:09
    228.   Jim Hitchcock
    They're just mocking us, LAT.
    2005-06-17 19:26:34
    229.   Fearing Blue
    #225: Bad for the White Sox, but even worse for us.
    2005-06-17 19:29:05
    230.   Jim Hitchcock
    The horror. The horror.
    2005-06-17 19:29:10
    231.   LAT
    Olmado Green
    2005-06-17 19:29:29
    232.   Marty
    There There. That's Okay....
    2005-06-17 19:30:03
    233.   Marty
    No one got hurt. So we got that going for us.
    2005-06-17 19:30:30
    234.   Fearing Blue
    Fortunately, we were able to clear off a few baserunners with 2 DPs, a CS, and a PO, to keep our Team LOB down to 5.
    2005-06-17 19:30:42
    235.   Heads22
    Nice talking to you guys tonite. Think about stopping by our place if you want.
    2005-06-17 19:31:17
    236.   Marty
    Heads22. Come back tomorrow. We may be in a better mood.
    2005-06-17 19:31:25
    237.   Fearing Blue
    #231: I was thinking about posting this last night, but I'm getting the feeling Olmedo has turned back into a pumpkin.
    2005-06-17 19:32:30
    238.   Fearing Blue
    Night Heads22. It was nice talking to you. I apologize for my bitterness. Getting swept by the Royals can do that to you.
    2005-06-17 19:32:32
    239.   Bob Timmermann
    If the Dodgers get a win tomorrow, I may get a new cat and name him Elmer!
    2005-06-17 19:32:53
    240.   Marty
    Fearing, Olmedo resembles Noriega, so he may be turning into a pineapple.
    2005-06-17 19:33:36
    241.   LAT
    Twins get leadoff 1b, bottom 8
    2005-06-17 19:36:06
    242.   LAT
    Is my memory correct that but for Choi we would be on a 7 game losing streak.
    2005-06-17 19:37:07
    243.   Jim Hitchcock
    Ever been to Yosemite, Bob? Remember the legend of Elmer the bear?
    2005-06-17 19:39:04
    244.   LAT
    Tori Hunter steal 2b comes up limping. Everyone watching him hobble around. Next pitch he steals third. Made up the whole limping thing to set up the steal of third. He is so much fun to watch.
    2005-06-17 19:46:04
    245.   Bob Timmermann
    I've been to Yosemite, but never heard about Elmer.

    The Twins tied the game at 4-4, but an injury to JC Romero has left them short of relievers.

    So Terry Mulholland is pitching.....

    2005-06-17 19:53:16
    246.   Jim Hitchcock
    They use to have a firefall ever night at Yosemite. Thay would start an enormous fire at the top of Glacier Point, and at nightfall would push the burning embers over the cliff. This stopped when I was about ten (1966), so I'm you never got a chance to see it.

    Anyway, Elmer was a legendary (and fictitious) lost bear cub. Every night, just before the firefall, kids (and kids at heart) all over the valley would be yelling "ELLLMMMEEERRR!"

    It was pretty neat.

    2005-06-17 19:57:26
    247.   Bob Timmermann
    I've only seen the Yosemite firefall when I saw "The Caine Mutiny". The firefall does not seem to be an essential part of park conservation I think.

    I wonder if my current cat is getting upset that I'm thinking about a replacement for her already. She actually seems pretty chipper lately.

    2005-06-17 19:59:19
    248.   LAT
    I'm guessing the insurance lawyers put an end to the firefall. You just can't do cool stuff like that any more.
    2005-06-17 19:59:51
    249.   Jim Hitchcock
    Seriously? The Caine Mutiny? Think you're pulling my leg.

    Hey, good for the cat.

    2005-06-17 20:03:26
    250.   Jim Hitchcock
    248 - Yeah, they started bear proofing the cans at the garbage dump about the same time. Remember when dads use to keep spotlights in the station wagon? Now that was fun!

    And, heck, they only lost 4-5 kids a year...and only the slow ones.

    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2005-06-17 20:03:48
    251.   Steve
    This bar stuff sucks. I missed a chance to tell White Sox fans to take their fricking announcers and stuff them, and to take Ozzie Guillen and rip his ears off? Stealing bases against DJ Houlton? Guillen must own plenty of babies' lollipops. But every meaningless stolen base gives John Kruk and Joe Morgan plenty to talk about.
    2005-06-17 20:05:15
    252.   LAT
    Jim, I was thinking the same thing. Unless they disposed of the strawberries by pushing them over Glacier Point.
    2005-06-17 20:06:43
    253.   Bob Timmermann
    Toward the beginning of the film, the young Navy guy goes to Yosemite on his honeymoon and they showed the "firefall."

    The cat is feeling better now, but she's still on borrowed time. I think she's just glad about not being dragged to the vet all the time. But she still has cancer. I just opted to not give her chemotherapy because: 1) it's expensive ($200-300/treatment) 2) she's old (16-17 years old) and 3) it likely wouldn't do much good either.

    2005-06-17 20:07:48
    254.   LAT
    #250 Yeah but the bears liked it becasue the slower kids were fatter and tastier.
    2005-06-17 20:10:48
    255.   Bob Timmermann
    Weird John Kruk fact

    In his first major league game, April 7, 1986, Kruk came into the game against the Dodgers in the 9th inning as a pinch runner for Steve Garvey. The Padres had runners on 1st and 3rd with no one out. And were down 2-0.

    Kruk got caught stealing by Mike Scioscia.

    The Padres ended up losing 2-1.

    2005-06-17 20:14:27
    256.   Marty
    LAT, I talked to my friend. She says Lisa Koppen sounded familiar. She is going to dig out her yearbooks. She can't believe I found someone (at least married to) from Fort Dodge on a "stupid Dodger blog". She recounts that during the 65 series as a nine year old kid she couldn't understand why everyone in Fort Dodge was for the Twins and not the Dodgers.
    2005-06-17 20:14:58
    257.   LAT
    Now to bring this whole firefall thing full circle: "In a Lonely Place" starring Humphrey Bogart is on Turner Classic right now.
    2005-06-17 20:19:48
    258.   Fearing Blue
    I posted this in an earlier thread, but I updated it with the Diamondbacks so I thought I would post here. It's an analysis of the Dodgers / Padres / Diamondbacks DL time based on VORP lost.

    For each player, the format is the estimated number of games missed * the estimated VORP rate / game = the total VORP lost. For the estimated number of games missed, I took an educated guess based on the total number of games missed (i.e. starting pitchers / long relievers = games / 5, closer = games / 2, etc.). For the VORP rate, I used a weighted average of Baseball Prospectus projections (3x) and current VORP rate (1x), unless there wasn't enough data from this season (e.g, Dessens and Young), in which cased I just used the BP projection. Any VORP rates that turned out negative (Redding and Blum) I rounded up to 0. Here are the results:

    Brad Penny: 3 * 0.788 = 2.364
    Odalis Perez: 5 * 0.848 = 4.24
    Eric Gagne: 19 * 0.429 = 8.151
    Wilson Alvarez: 8 * 0.628 = 5.024
    Elmer Dessens: 9 * 0.336 = 3.024
    Darren Dreifort: 0 * 0 = 0
    Dodgers Pitchers = 22.803
    Milton Bradley: 17 * 0.229 = 3.893
    Jose Valentin: 26 * 0.176 = 4.576
    Jayson Werth: 29 * 0.148 = 4.292
    Antonio Perez: 17 * 0.31 = 5.27
    Ricky Ledee: 4 * 0.155 = 0.62
    Jason Grabowski: 3 * 0.079 = 0.237
    Paul Bako: 4 * 0.015 = 0.06
    Dodgers Hitters = 18.948
    Dodgers Total = 41.751

    Woody Williams: 6 * 0.719 = 4.314
    Tim Redding: 6 * 0 = 0
    Padres Pitchers = 4.314
    Mark Loretta: 25 * 0.264 = 6.6
    Khalil Greene: 21 * 0.23 = 4.83
    Dave Roberts: 9 * 0.145 = 1.305
    Geoff Blum: 3 * 0 = 0
    Eric Young: 13 * 0.117 = 1.521
    Freddy Guzman: 4 * 0.052 = 0.208
    Padres Hitters = 14.464
    Padres Total = 18.778

    Brandon Lyon: 15 * 0.142 = 2.13
    Greg Aquino: 31 * 0.16 = 4.96
    Jose Valverde: 13 * 0.116 = 1.508
    Oscar Villareal: 30 * 0.144 = 4.32
    D-Backs Pitchers = 12.918
    Jose Cruz Jr.: 28 * 0.139 = 3.892
    Luis Terrero: 2 * 0.093 = 0.186
    Jerry Gill: 4 * 0 = 0
    D-Backs Hitters = 4.078
    D-Backs Total = 16.996

    The conclusion is that the Dodgers injuries have cost them about 2.5 wins (1 win = 10 VORP) more than the Padres and Diamondbacks injuries.

    I haven't done the Giants yet, but I'm pretty confident they have been hit the hardest by injuries. Barry Bonds alone comes out to about an estimated 40.68 VORP lost.

    Note: The numbers for the Padres and Dodgers are slightly different than last time, because I calculated games played formulaically instead of hard-coding. The formulas will make it easier to redo the analysis in the future.

    2005-06-17 20:23:29
    259.   Bob Timmermann
    Geoff Blum had a negative VORP? I thought he was having a decent year.
    2005-06-17 20:26:44
    260.   LAT
    Marty, my wife was 1 yro in 1965. Lisa was 4 yro. My wife wasn't much of a baseball fan until our second date when we went to watch the 6th game of the 1986 World Series. One of the best nights of my life--one of the worst nights of Bill Buckner's life.
    2005-06-17 20:27:37
    261.   Jim Hitchcock
    The best bear encounter I ever had was when me and a friend went backpacking in Little Yosemite Valley. Woke up to see a bear climbing
    a tree toward our suspended (and very cheap...$10 or so backpacks.

    So I went by the book. Took a pan and a very large spoon and started banging for all I was worth. Now, that got some attention.

    Unfortunately, it was from other hikers spread throughtout the valley. The valley literally rang with cries to "Shut Up! Shut the hell up!"

    And the bear ignored it.

    The bear gets to my backpack, tears a hole in it, and down to the ground drops our entire food Hershey bar and a packet of instant soup.

    Well, it was on. Took a rock, sailed it behind the bear, and was studiously ignored. Took another rock, and plugged thet bear square in the heine. Now that got it's attention. It wasted no time starting to back down the tree.

    My friend in sleeping bag: Oh S*#& Jim, what'd you do that for?

    Me: Well, don't know exactly...

    My friend still in sleeping bag: Well, do something!

    Me: Ok, I'll...I'll start a fire. That always works.

    The bear drops the last couple feet to the ground...and runs off into the trees.

    And for one moment, I was king of the forest.

    2005-06-17 20:28:55
    262.   Bob Timmermann
    Twins have the bases loaded with no outs in the bottom of the 11th against the Padres.
    2005-06-17 20:29:50
    263.   Bob Timmermann
    Twins win 5-4.
    2005-06-17 20:49:20
    264.   Fearing Blue
    #258: And here's the Giants. I'm not going to do the Rockies, because even when healthy, they're not very good.

    Jason Schmidt: 2 * 1.254 = 2.508
    Armando Benitez: 22 * 0.234 = 5.148
    LaTroy Hawkins: 0 * 0.311 = 0
    Al Levine: 9 * 0 = 0
    Giants Pitchers = 7.656
    Barry Bonds: 59 * 0.678 = 40.002
    Moises Alou: 12 * 0.204 = 2.448
    Edgardo Alfonzo: 4 * 0.125 = 0.5
    Marquis Grissom: 9 * 0.038 = 0.342
    Giants Hitters = 43.292
    Giants Total = 50.948

    As expected, the Giants have been hit harder than the Dodgers, strictly because of Bonds. Losing Bonds is roughly equivalent to all of the Dodgers DL stints this year combined, which seems about right. Overall, the Giants have been hit about 1 win harder than the Dodgers. Based on this conclusion, it's hard to see how even getting Bonds back would make the Giants a competitor.

    2005-06-17 20:50:05
    265.   Midwest Blue
    Well thank God for the Twins.

    Just got back from the game. My impression was that Houlton did a great job holding them to 5 hits. If he doesn't do the walks and hit batter we may only have lost this game by 2 runs :$

    Gio is awful and you can predict he'll give up a homerun all the time now.

    Offense was just pathetic. Any chance we can do that Harang/Dunn trade? We need something right away.

    I've got tix for tomorrow and Sunday. I am a masochist.

    2005-06-17 20:52:26
    266.   Fearing Blue
    #259: It's an issue with the method. In the weight average, I weighted this year as 1x and Baseball Prospectus' projection as 3x. His VORPr this year is .085, Baseball Prospectus' projection is -.058, thus (1 .085 + 3 -.058)/4 = -.089 / 4 = -.022.
    2005-06-17 20:54:54
    267.   Fearing Blue
    #266: Unintended bolding, should be (1 x .085 + 3 x -.058).
    2005-06-17 20:55:05
    268.   Bob Timmermann
    When the Dodgers play the Padres next week, the scary thing is that one of those teams WILL have to win a game.

    The Padres went 22-6 in May and they are 3-12 in June.

    Bochy brought in Reyes to pitch at that end. Dennys Reyes is Spanish for "Scott Erickson".

    2005-06-17 20:55:52
    269.   Fearing Blue
    #263: Thankfully, our whole division is mediocre.
    2005-06-17 20:56:03
    270.   Jim Hitchcock
    Very nice work, FB.
    2005-06-17 20:58:21
    271.   Fearing Blue
    #265: I was also pleased with Houlton's performance, even if he did hurt himself. It's refreshing to see a starting pitcher who can strike people out occassionally.
    2005-06-17 21:04:22
    272.   Bob Timmermann
    The Padres remain the only team with more runs scored than allowed in the NL West.

    They are at +6

    The DBacks are at -52
    The Dodgers are at -14
    The Giants are at -55
    The Rockies are at -82

    2005-06-17 21:17:28
    273.   the OZ
    I'm not sure that 10 runs (or VORP) = 1 win at this early juncture. Doesn't that 'rule' generally apply to a full season? If so, we can proabably safely double the win deltas since we're not quite halfway through the schedule.

    10 runs/season = 1 win
    10 runs/half-season = 2 wins

    2005-06-17 21:29:30
    274.   Fearing Blue
    #273: VORP is cumulative so I don't think we'd have to adjust the rate of VORP to wins.
    2005-06-17 21:44:54
    275.   the OZ
    As far as I can tell, the 'rule' is 10 additional total runs/scored prevented per season generally = 1 win. Of course, this will vary somewhat depending on the total volume of runs scored and allowed for individual teams. VORP just happens to fit since it measures additional marginal runs over replacement.

    The cumulative nature of VORP is irrelevant as it relates to the numerator/denominator relationship of runs+/-10 = +/- 1 win/season.

    If 10 VORP in one season = 1 win, then 10 VORP in a half season must = 2 wins.

    Or look at it this way: 10 VORP in June equates to 20 VORP over a whole season, or 2 wins.

    Either way, right now 10 VORP 1 win.

    2005-06-17 21:45:58
    276.   the OZ
    THere should be a "not equal to" symbol in the last sentence.
    2005-06-18 06:39:44
    277.   Fearing Blue
    #275: I see what you're saying, but pro-rating the VORP assumes that we're going to have the same injury rate for the rest of the season. In analyzing the injury impact thus far, I prefer to assume that everyone comes back healthy tomorrow, so the VORP delta would be the same at the end of the season. In other words, it's hard to forecast what the impact of injuries will be moving forwad.
    2005-06-18 07:09:32
    278.   Steve
    From the Dayton Daily News:

    "Adam Dunn was given another day off Friday, and he was about as happy as he was for his last day off June 3 in Colorado. That time, he didn't complain because he wasn't hitting well.

    Now he is vocal about it after hitting a 455-foot homer Thursday.

    "I don't know why I'm off," he said. "And, of course, they didn't tell me Thursday — that would be too easy, they waited until today (Friday) when my mom and dad are here for the games....

    Asked what would have happened if he had hit a 500-foot homer, Dunn said, "I probably would have gotten two days off."

    2005-06-18 12:26:35
    279.   Bob Timmermann
    Since I will be out today, RDGC will have to make an early appearance in the wrong place today:
    Random Dodger game callback

    June 18, 1949

    Over 32,000 fans came to Wrigley Field on a Saturday afternoon to watch one of the least remembered of the "Boys of Summer", Rex Barney, shut out the Cubs 2-0. Barney held the Cubs to just five hits while striking out seven. The loss was the seventh straight for the Cubs and their eighth straight loss to Brooklyn. The Dodgers improved to 35-22 and stayed 2 games in front of second place St. Louis.

    1949 would be one of the most written about seasons in baseball history. There were exciting pennant races in both leagues. The Dodgers and Cardinals would be close all season and the Dodgers would not clinch until the last day of the season. The Dodgers were 97-57. In the AL, the Yankees won two straight games from the Red Sox to end the season to win the pennant by one game also.

    1949 was Jackie Robinson's MVP season. He led the league in hitting at .342 and in stolen bases with 37. Robinson also hit 16 home runs and drove in 124, a mark no second baseman in baseball would top until Jeff Kent drove in 128 in 1998.

    The Dodgers also had the National League Rookie of the Year in pitcher Don Newcombe, who went 17-8 with a 3.17 ERA. Newcombe would eventually add an MVP and a Cy Young Award to his credit in 1956,

    But the pitching ace on June 18 was Barney. The young right-hander had made his major league debut at age 18 in 1943. He moved into the Dodgers rotation fulltime in 1948. Barney threw hard but was plagued with wildness in his career. In 1949 Barney would go 9-8 and walk 89 batters and strike out 80 in 140 2/3 innings. His wildness would get only worse and after 1950, Barney was out of the majors. He would later go on to greater fame as the public address announcer for the Baltimore Orioles with a trademark "Thank yooouuuu!" after most announcements and also saying, "Give that fan a contract!" after a fan made a nice catch of a foul ball. Barney passed away in 1997.

    The Dodgers had the best offense in the National League in 1949, scoring 879 runs, but they were only able to scratch out two against Cubs veteran Dutch Leonard. A pair of infield hits by Gil Hodges contributed to both runs.

    In the second, Hodges squirted a ball that Leonard couldn't come up with cleanly and reached with a hit. Carl Furillo singled him to third and Hodges came home on a force out by backup catcher Bruce Edwards.

    In the third, Pee Wee Reese led off with a single and went to second a ground out and third on a wild pitch. Duke Snider then grounded to Cub first baseman Herman Reich who threw out Reese at the plate. Robinson singled Snider to third and Snider scored when Hodges hit a bouncer that Cub third baseman Andy Pafko couldn't make a play on. After that, neither team was able to put together any sort of threat. The normally wild Barney walked only two batters.

    In the World Series, the Dodgers faced the Yankees for the third time in the 1940s. The Dodgers lost Game 1 at Yankee Stadium, 1-0 on a 9th inning homer by Tommy Heinrich against Newcombe, but bounced back to win Game 2, 1-0 on a shutout from Preacher Roe. The Yankees closed out the series at Ebbets Field, winning 4-3, 6-4, and 10-6, with Barney losing the finale. It was the second World Series loss for Dodgers manager Burt Shotton in 3 years. Shotton was the last manager of the Dodgers who did not dress in a uniform while on the job.

    The Dodgers were solidly established as the dominant team in the National League, but the next two years were going to end even more unhappily than 1949 did.

    Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

    2005-06-18 13:52:51
    280.   LAT
    Watching the LAA -FLA game. Steve Lyons is clearly head of the Jason Repko Chowder and Marching Society. Stated on national broadcast that "a part time right fielder for the Dodgers, Jason Repko has the best outfield arm in baseball. Better than Vlad." Nice exposure for Repko but he must not have seen that admittedly "stupid" throw last night.

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