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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Honking in Traffic
2005-07-11 10:11
by Jon Weisman

"Team meetings" like the one the Dodgers had Saturday? Yeah, I've been in some of those, and isn't the term quaint? Like calling a food fight a "potluck lunch."

The Dodgers' quest hasn't changed - it never changes. The quest is to win baseball games. No matter what kind of losing streak you're on or how much you disrespect the guy next to you, that's always the quest.

What can change is the level of commitment to the quest, the committment that encourages one to work late or work harder, to give beyond what's expected, to trade sleep or family time or what have you for more grindstoning.

Sometimes motivational words help, be they rah rah Lasorda rah rah or quiet encouragement and tips. Sometimes people lead by example, consciously or unconsciously. But that might not be enough. You have to believe that the extra commitment is going to make a difference. A rational person might conclude that working overtime won't mean at thing in the long run. In fact, that person might be right.

And here's the key. Different adults will not only come to different conclusions about what is the proper level of committment - they will each meet their given standard with varying levels of success. And so, it will be rare that, even in the best of circumstances, everyone is on the same page.

Pointing a finger at another person ultimately reveals itself as an act of frustration. It is rage at our inability to control anyone but ourselves.

At my most difficult work environment, which fortunately is receding well into my past, people snapped and caterwauled at each other almost every day. Some people were less talented than others, which said something about the quality of the publication, but didn't explain the constant confrontations. That problem came from everyone thinking they were better than everybody else. Everyone thought they were pulling all the weight, and most of them were wrong. By definition, they had to be wrong.

Have you ever noticed, driving down a major street or even the freeway, how the fast lane can become the slow lane? Cars gather to the left, because they want to get somewhere as quickly as possible, and Drivers Ed told us that's how we do it. But then some drivers' idea of fast is five miles per hour above the speed limit, while for others, it's the speed limit + 25. Drivers who might think they're fast by their own definition are slow in others' eyes - in fact, they're worse than slow, because they're taking up space in the fast lane. Frustration builds. And so you find speeding drivers (like me) zipping into other lanes that are less dense with traffic, passing on the right, to the annoyance of some, just to keep themselves moving at their idea of reasonable speed.

The Dodgers have too many slow movers in the fast lane, and there isn't much to be done. Pointing fingers will not often make a 65-mph driver go 75. And getting 25 drivers going 75 isn't easy, is it, especially when the best of them are injured, and the only destination worth reaching quickly, Titletown, is falling off the map.

All the finger-pointing is honking in traffic. This noise pollution might lead this morning's news, but the Dodgers' biggest problem remains the simple fact that the best drivers can't even get on the road. Rush hour is starting and the team is already late.

Comments (464)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-07-11 10:43:21
1.   Vishal

i've always found the whole concept of "no passing on the right" a little dubious. are you required to go slower than the lane to your left, or what? because if not, then it's all a matter of semantics which lane you are passing in. consider: you are in the second lane from the right and are behind a slow moving vehicle. there is a slow moving vehicle in the right lane, but it is farther ahead. you could move to the right lane and claim to be passing that second slow car by moving back left, when in reality you were passing the first by moving right. and any move right or left could be legitimately claimed to be passing from the previous lane, i think.

2005-07-11 10:44:17
2.   Fearing Blue
Minor League Update

Las Vegas 51s (AAA):
The 51s lost 4 - 2 to Portland.

Third baseman Willy Aybar and first baseman Norihiro Nakamura drove in both runs. Aybar went 1 for 4 with a double, a run scored, and an RBI (.302/.363/.446). Nakamura went 2 for 4 with a double and an RBI (.286/.348/.558). Catcher Dioner Navarro is still out with a strained shoulder.

Starting pitcher Harold Eckert took the loss, allowing 4 runs (all earned) in 5 innings pitched. Eckert allowed 3 hits and 3 walks while striking out 6. Alfredo Gonzalez and Pat Mahomes combined for 3 innings of scoreless relief. Gonzalez, a 25-year old right-hander, pitched 2 innings giving up just a walk while striking out 1.

Jacksonville Suns (AA):
The Suns lost 2 - 1 to Montgomery.

Second baseman Delwyn Young scored the Suns only run in the bottom of the 9th on an error by center fielder Elijah Dukes. Young went 1 for 4 with a double in the game (.290/.337/.460). Third baseman Joel Guzman went 0 for 2 with 2 walks and 2 strikeouts (.284/.352/.492). First baseman James Loney (.276/.356/.394) and right fielder Justin Ruggiano (.385/.467/.615) each went 1 for 4 on the night.

Starting pitcher Justin Orenduff pitched an incredible game. Orenduff threw 7 scoreless innings on 4 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 6. The outing lowered his ERA to 6.20 in 4 appearances with Jacksonville (20.1 innings). Luis Gonzalez was tagged with the loss, allowing 2 runs (both earned) in 2 innings of relief. Gonzalez had trouble finding the strike zone, giving up 1 hit and 4 walks, while striking out 2.

Vero Beach Dodgers (High-A):
No game scheduled.

Columbus Catfish (Low-A):
The Catfish won another slugfest, 13 - 10, over Asheville.

Second baseman Travis Denker is en fuego. Denker went 3 for 5 with 3 homeruns and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 RBIs (.295/.413/.523). Denker leads the league in walks, is in the top 5 in homeruns, and is just 19 years old. Denker, a 21st round draft pick in 2003, repeated the Rookie league last year, likely due to the presence of Tony Abreu (High-A Vero Beach) above him. Right fielder and leadoff-hitter Ryan Carter went 3 for 6 with a double, a homerun, 3 runs scored and 3 RBIs (.317/.369/.533). Left fielder Lucas May went 2 for 4 with a double, a homerun and 2 runs scored (.236/.275/.357). May is a 20-years old infielder / outfielder drafted by Dodgers in the 8th round of the 2003 draft. Catcher Gabriel Gutierrez went 2 for 5 with a double, a run scored, and an RBI (.263/.337/.375). Third baseman Blake Dewitt was the only Raptor held hitless, going 0 for 5 with a strikeout (.268/.315/.422).

Starting pitcher Scott Elbert got the win with a decent 5 innings performance. Elbert allowed 2 runs (both earned) on 5 hits (2 homeruns) and 4 walks, while striking out 6. Relievers Steve Nelson and Kyle Wilson combined to allow 8 runs (4 earned) over the final 4 innings.

Ogden Raptors (Rookie):
No game scheduled.

GCL Dodgers (Rookie):
No game scheduled.

2005-07-11 10:44:25
3.   Vishal
oh yeah, the dodgers. um, can we get a post to talk about hee seop in the derby, or should we do it here? :)
2005-07-11 10:48:44
4.   FirstMohican
Doing the speed limit in the fast lane is for minor leaguers.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but LA Downtown News has a poem on the first half of '05.

2005-07-11 10:53:06
5.   the OZ
the traffic analogy works well. a 70-mph driver may have a +5 VORP (Velocity over Replacement Pilot) in the right lane, but a -15 VORP in the fast lane.

Scott Erickson is doing 45 in the #3 lane with the left blinker on.

2005-07-11 10:54:55
6.   DeucesAreWild
Personally, I find it quite troubling that our newly-minted $24 million pitcher is complaining publically that he was left in a game too long. I've never been impressed with Odalis' mental make-up (read: 2004 Division Series and past media blow-ups), and this just confirms it. I think it's safe to say that the Dodgers are leading the league in pitcher fragility and mound/clubhouse meltdowns.
2005-07-11 11:03:03
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - Pretty much every post becomes a Choi post and/or Tracy post and/or DePodesta post at some point.
2005-07-11 11:07:12
8.   Fearing Blue
Here is my projected roster for 2006. It's extremely likely there will be some changes between now and then.

25-Man Roster:
1: Alvarez, Wilson (RP $2 million)
2: Bradley, Milton (OF $7 million)
3: Brazoban, Yhency (RP $0.35 million)
4: Choi, Hee-Seop (1B $1.75 million)
5: Drew, J.D. (OF $11 million)
6: Gagne, Eric (RP $10 million)
7: Houlton, Dennis (SP $0.33 million)
8: Izturis, Cesar (SS $3.1 million)
9: Kent, Jeff (2B $9 million)
10: Kuo, Hong-chih (RP $0.32 million)
11: Ledee, Ricky (OF $1.5 million)
12: Lowe, Derek (SP $9 million)
13: Osoria, Franquelis (RP $0.32 million)
14: Penny, Brad (SP $5.5 million)
15: Perez, Antonio (2B/3B $0.34 million)
16: Perez, Odalis (SP $9.5 million)
17: Phillips, Jason (C $1.75 million)
18: Repko, Jason (OF $0.35 million)
19: Robles, Oscar (2B/SS $0.34 million)
20: Rose, Mike (C $0.33 million)
21: Sanchez, Duaner (RP $1.25 million)
22: Werth, Jayson (OF $1.75 million)
23: Starting Pitcher (SP ? million)
24: Third Baseman (3B ? million)
25: Left Fielder (OF ? million)
Total Salary: $76.78 million

40-Man Roster Candidates:
1: Aybar, Willy (2B/3B)
2: Broxton, Jonathan (P)
3: Guzman, Joel (SS)
4: Hanrahan, Joel (P)
5: Hu, Chin-lung (SS)
6: Hull, Eric (P)
7: Jackson, Edwin (P)
8: Juarez, William (P)
9: Ketchner, Ryan (P)
10: Loney, James (1B)
11: Martin, Russell (C)
12: Navarro, Dioner (C)
13: Orenduff, Justin (P)
14: Perez, Beltran (P)
15: Ross, Cody (OF)
16: Schmoll, Steve (P)
17: Stults, Eric (P)
18: Thompson, Derek (P)
19: Young, Delwyn (2B)

The Dodgers 2005 salary is approximately $89 million after accounting for cash payouts and insurance payments. Thus, assuming we maintain the same salary level, it would leave about $12 million to sign a starting pitcher, third baseman, and left fielder. Any of these positions could be filled internally if we decide to commit the money to one position over another (Starting pitcher - Derek Thompson / Eric Stutlts, Third baseman - Antonio Perez / Willy Aybar, Left Fielder - Jayson Werth).

Of the 40-man roster candidates, assuming we make no trades, I would leave Joel Hanrahan, William Juarez, Beltran Perez, and Cody Ross exposed to get down to 40.

2005-07-11 11:12:01
9.   Steve
A few threads become Duaner Sanchez threads.
2005-07-11 11:17:24
10.   db1022
Was Odalis' contract front- or back-loaded? I thought his average salary was more in the $8M range (3yr/$24M?).

Same with Penny - $5.5M seems low for him next year.

2005-07-11 11:18:35
11.   Steve
It was backloaded. He is only making 3 million this year, but 8 in the next two years. If I remember right, it's about three years at 20 or 21 million.
2005-07-11 11:22:41
12.   Fearing Blue
#8: If we do decide to divert most of our funds to one player, I would suggest an outfielder by the name of Brian Giles, for 3-years at $10-11 million / year. Our minor league system doesn't have much outfield depth. At third base we have Andy LaRoche coming up quickly. At starting pitcher, our system is stocked with potential for 2007 and 2008. Jayson Werth and Hee Seop Choi could then platoon at 1B. Our team would something like:

Starting Lineup:
1. Antonio Perez (3B)
2. Milton Bradley (CF)
3. J.D. Drew (RF)
4. Jeff Kent (2B)
5. Brian Giles (LF)
6. Hee Seop Choi / Jayson Werth (1B)
7. Jason Phillips (C)
8. Cesar Izturis (SS)

Starting Rotation:
1. Brad Penny
2. Derek Lowe
3. Odalis Perez
4. DJ Houlton
5. Derek Thompson / Eric Stults

1. Eric Gagne
2. Yhency Brazoban
3. Duaner Sanchez
4. Wilson Alvarez
5. Hong-chih Kuo
6. Franquelis Osoria

2005-07-11 11:25:13
13.   Fearing Blue
#11: From Hardball Dollars:

2005: $3 million
2006: $9.5 million
2007: $10 million
2008: $9 million option or $1.5 million buyout

Since the buyout is guaranteed, the contract is considered to be a 3-year / $24 million contract.

2005-07-11 11:25:17
14.   Steve
No way Wilson is going to make 2 million coming off of this year.
2005-07-11 11:27:14
15.   Fearing Blue
#14: He has a guaranteed two-year contract for $2 million / year through 2006.
2005-07-11 11:27:36
16.   Dodgerkid
Fearing Blue--I think your outlook is very accurate. My problem is though that the team looks a lot like this year's team, and this year we are terrible. Can we expect more of the same next year?
2005-07-11 11:28:03
17.   Steve
We gave him two years! Geez, and people talk about the Mascot.
2005-07-11 11:30:29
18.   Jon Weisman
I don't know how much of an option Perez is at third base in 2006, given the collective opinion of his fielding.

Kuo strikes me like Dreifort without the big contract, but I could be wrong.

2005-07-11 11:32:45
19.   Marty
8. I'm wondering if Alvarez will be around next year. He may break down completely before then. Also, you don't think Navarro will be up for backup purposes instead of Rose? Martin is one of my favorite prospects and I think will be better than Navarro, but is still not coming up til at least 2007. Why not start the clock on Navarro in the meantime?
2005-07-11 11:36:04
20.   db1022
#18 - I'd be fine with another year of him as a stopgap 3B. 2007 should be the year of LaRoche or Guzman at 3B.

Kent will most likely retire to allow Perez to become the starting 2B (assuming he continues to progress offensively).

2005-07-11 11:43:14
21.   fanerman
Our outfield depth will be a lot better with Giles (assuming we get him). Werth as a 4th OF will be good. Given the vulnerabilities of our OF he'd get plenty of playing time. Besides, plucking him away from SD would be doubly good in theory.

I don't mind starting Navarro either. He'll have had an entire year of AAA behind him (and Martin will probably get moved up there anyway next year). He's done reasonably well. Is there any reason to keep him down?

Our bullpen still looks very vulnerable, though. We could definitely use a couple stop gap arms as well.

2005-07-11 11:46:18
22.   fanerman
BTW, anyway we could get a better "meltdown proof" defense?
2005-07-11 11:48:14
23.   db1022
#21 - Giles or Dunn? Pick one. I'm going with Dunn. They'll probably be due the same salary, give or take a million or two. Dunn will cost us some prospects - Giles will only cost us a draft pick (correct?). Dunn is 10 years younger.
2005-07-11 11:49:21
24.   dzzrtRatt
What about Kent playing 1B, and putting Perez at 2B, which seems to be less daunting for him defensively? At 3B, we should sign or trade for a solid veteran for a couple of years to allow LaRoche plenty of time to show if he can be a MLB player. Joe Randa might be a nice choice, or Hank Blalock, both of whom play for teams with holes the Dodgers could help fill.
2005-07-11 11:49:54
25.   Fearing Blue
#16: No, I'd expect next season to be much better for a few reasons. One, the projected lineup is stronger with an additional impact bat. Two, historically, teams that have dealt with this magnitude of injuries have a corresponding bounce the following year. Three, the Padres, Giants, and Diamondbacks likely project to be worse rather than better.
2005-07-11 11:51:04
26.   Fearing Blue
#18: The other possibility is Willy Aybar, who is not as polished offensively, but is supposed to be extremely polished defensively at 2B and 3B. Additionally, there could be funds for a Joe Randa-type stopgap until LaRoche is ready.
2005-07-11 11:52:51
27.   Fearing Blue
#19: That's a definite possibility. Navarro and Phillips could split time based on rest and matchups, since Navarro is a switch-hitter. Next year Navarro will only be 22 years old, so I was trying to err on the side of being conservative.
2005-07-11 11:56:18
28.   molokai
I went to Home Depot yesterday to get some keys made because I lost my set. While picking out the keys I saw this cool Dodger key so I asked him to use that one and a basic one. Got home and showed my wife the Dodger key. She was less then enthusiastic and said she wanted the basic key because she said the Dodger key would probably break. Ten seconds later I'm testing the new keys and ............the Dodger key doesn't work but the basic key does. She laughed and said that was our season in a nutshell.
2005-07-11 11:56:34
29.   Fearing Blue
#21: For bullpen depth, Steve Schmoll, Derek Thompson, Eric Stults, and Eric Hull would all be options. Additionally, Sanchez, Brazoban, and Osoria all project to improve since they are still young (25.7, 25.1, and 23.8 respectively). There's enough upside between the kids and Alvarez's recovery that with just a couple of good breaks, we could have one of the best bullpens in the league.
2005-07-11 11:57:43
30.   Fearing Blue
#29: Additionally, bullpen arms are overpriced and there's a lot of variability due to the small number of innings pitched. It would be hard to get someone who you can project is going to be better than Osoria or Schmoll without spending $3-4 million / year.
2005-07-11 11:58:59
31.   Fearing Blue
#23: I will continue to go back to my contention, which is that Dunn is not an outfielder. Once you factor in defense, Giles probably brings more to the table and wouldn't cost us multiple top prospects.
2005-07-11 12:01:35
32.   Bob Timmermann
FWIW, I learned during one of my two trips to traffic school (I haven't had a ticket since the early 1990s as I learned my lesson), you can pass a car on the right hand side as long as you do it safely AND you are travelling on a "normally travelled portion of the roadway." I.e, you can't drive up on the sidewalk to get around someone.

The only way I see the Dodgers getting back in the race though is to drive on the sidewalk to get around the Padres. And the DBacks.

2005-07-11 12:02:04
33.   db1022
Dunn could be a 1B down the line, but I think he's certainly young enough that he could be a passable LF, especially considering we have Drew and Bradley manning the other spots, with Werth a quality 4th OFer.
2005-07-11 12:02:35
34.   Fearing Blue
#24: A couple reasons come to mind. The first is that Choi is better offensively than Perez. Currently, Perez is at or near the top of BABIP on Choi is at or near the bottom for the team. The second is that Kent at 2B and Choi at 1B is better defensively than Perez at 2B and Kent at 1B. Maybe Kent can play 3B?
2005-07-11 12:03:55
35.   Fearing Blue
#33: Youth doesn't make up for bad breaks and lack of range. Dunn could play 1B, but then he's not as good of a value for the $$.
2005-07-11 12:04:55
36.   Jon Weisman
I never thought that the law found passing on the right to be illegal, just uncouth.
2005-07-11 12:05:49
37.   Fearing Blue
#33: My primary concern is that we'd have to trade Chad Billingsley + two other pitching prospects to get Dunn. It just doesn't seem worth it when we can get more or less the same value from Giles in the offseason.
2005-07-11 12:06:41
38.   Fearing Blue
Phew.. I feel like I've just completed the lightning round on one of those dumb ESPN shows :).
2005-07-11 12:10:10
39.   db1022
#37 - Short term, maybe. I see Dunn as a consistent 50-homer, .400 OBP guy for the next 7-10 years. Giles skills could erode quickly.

Also, the Reds may be increasingly motivated to dump Dunn. It may not cost Billingsley. Edwin Jackson maybe?

2005-07-11 12:10:23
40.   fanerman
And he's not as much of an upgrade over Choi (at least, the way we look at it) as he is over Ross/Repko/Grabowski.

Fearing Blue, I hope you're right about the Pen. Gagne is a bit of a risk at the start of the season (and given the way the Dodgers handle injuries, maybe more). Brazoban and Sanchez have sort of fallen back to earth after last season as many of us expected (higher BB/9 than their ERA's would have indicated last season). With many more arms available next season, it seems we'd be in a better position.

You're right as well that, if we fielded this exact same team next season, chances are we'd do much better.

Any idea if DePo is going to re-sign Weaver? It looks there's a good chance he will.

2005-07-11 12:11:34
41.   Jon Weisman
Kent's not going to play third next year at age 38, 10 years after his last game there. More likely that he plays first.

Remember, Choi probably stops being as much of a bargain as he's been next year. Depending in part on whether Tracy is coming back, DePodesta could decide the economics of Choi no longer work out for the playing time he gets, and trade him or even non-tender him.

In that case, I see Kent at first and Perez at second. At third, the Dodgers are where they were when they got Bonilla and were waiting for Beltre. It's going to continue to be stopgaps from elsewhere, at least in April. They'll try to do the Valentin thing one better, I expect.

2005-07-11 12:12:18
42.   Bob Timmermann
But you know if you make an unsafe lane change and drive a Highway Patrol officer on to the shoulder, the officer gets really, really, really mad at you.

I got three tickets:
1) unsafe lane change
2) wrong address on my registration
3) wrong address on my license

2005-07-11 12:15:34
43.   Jon Weisman
By the way, Tim Brown reported Sunday that "Jim Tracy's two-year contract extension includes a clause allowing him to leave after the first year." So while the Dodger injuries figure to give him a free ride into 2006 if he wants to take it, you can still fuel the Cincinnati rumors.
2005-07-11 12:21:32
44.   franklin
As much as I like the idea of Giles in a Dodger uni, is that option realistic? He grew up in SD, is a consistent producer, and Bochy loves the guy. I could see him retiring as a Padre.

From the talk, I assume he will be an FA at the end of the season. Otherwise, the only way the Padres trade him to the Dodgers is if half the Jax lineup is offered in return.

2005-07-11 12:26:04
45.   db1022
After giving up Bay and OPerez (the good one) for Giles, the Padres might feel a sense of obligation to the fans to resign him. I could see them cutting ties with Nevin and Klesko long before Giles.

The fact that he hasn't been extended could be a telling sign though.

2005-07-11 12:27:25
46.   Colorado Blue
28 - Did you you wear your "Team DePo" shirt there... boy, I get enough people asking me if I work there just on the street.
2005-07-11 12:30:34
47.   LAT
36. Never understood why passing on the right is uncouth but driving slow in the far left lane is ok. Or the worst offense of all, driving speed limit or less in carpool lane. Why do people do that? That makes me crazy.
2005-07-11 12:31:11
48.   Fearing Blue
#41: Forgot to add my ":)" to the Kent 3B comment. He's obviously not going to play over there, though I can't imagine he could less range or worse reaction times than Mike Edwards.

Good point about Choi and arbitration next year. It should be an interesting offseason on that front.

2005-07-11 12:33:17
49.   Fearing Blue
#44: He will be a free agent in the offseason. I don't know what the Padres financial situation is and whether they'd be able to resign him.
2005-07-11 12:37:10
50.   Howard Fox
passing on the right is illegal on regular streets

but on the freeway, rules are different, you can pass on either side

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-07-11 12:38:20
51.   Fearing Blue
#40: My assumption is that if the Dodgers resign Weaver ($8 - $9 million / year), then neither Dunn or Giles would be an option due to financial constraints. Signing Weaver to a 3-year / $25 million contract and then signing Matt Lawton to a 2-year $11 million contract might be a decent plan B if Dunn and Giles fall through. There's a very good shot that our system will be able to produce a corner outfielder by 2008 (Delwyn Young, Justin Ruggiano, or Matt Kemp).
2005-07-11 12:39:52
52.   Fearing Blue
#51: I probably should have included Joel Guzman in that list, but I'd rather not incur Steve's wrath.
2005-07-11 12:41:36
53.   FirstMohican
47 - Passing on the right isn't illegal - unless it's a one lane highway. =)

Erickson's that guy in the right hand lane going 65, 2 car lengths behind the guy in the fast lane (your lane) going 70. As you try to safely navigate your car in front of Erickson in the already tight 2 car lenghts, Erickson proceeds to drive 71, effectively closing that gap.

Or he could be the guy that waits to the absolute last second to merge onto the 101 from the 405N, cutting off over 400 people who have been driving morally.

2005-07-11 12:41:50
54.   Steve
As if we needed more reasons not to resign Weaver, we get that he would keep us from signing Dunn.
2005-07-11 12:42:23
55.   Steve
Erickson is the guy shooting out windshields on the 101.
2005-07-11 12:44:20
56.   Bob Timmermann
From the California Vehicle Code:
Passing on the Right

21754. The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:

(a) When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn.

(b) Upon a highway within a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving vehicles in the direction of travel.

(c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel.

(d) Upon a one-way street.

(e) Upon a highway divided into two roadways where traffic is restricted to one direction upon each of such roadways.

The provisions of this section shall not relieve the driver of a slow moving vehicle from the duty to drive as closely as practicable to the right hand edge of the roadway.

Pass on Right Safely

21755. The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. In no event shall such movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway.

2005-07-11 12:44:42
57.   Howard Fox
Maybe it's not is the rule from the DMV

*Pass traffic on the left. You may pass on the right only when:

An open highway is clearly marked for two or more lanes of travel in your direction.
The driver ahead of you is turning left and you do not drive off the roadway. Never pass on the left if the driver is signaling a left turn.*

2005-07-11 12:45:07
58.   Howard Fox
Bob, you beat me by 20 seconds
2005-07-11 12:46:18
59.   Bob Timmermann
You don't have a copy of the California Vehicle Code close at hand....

As for baseball, it's the All-Star Break so I've got nothing! Nothing!

Except, I would be utterly shocked to see Brian Giles ever wearing a Dodgers uniform.

2005-07-11 12:47:07
60.   FirstMohican
51 - 23.5M (excluding the 2M buyout & option) for Penny has got to mean Weaver's theoretical 3 year deal will at worst be the same, and at best be a couple M's less.
2005-07-11 12:47:34
61.   Howard Fox
53 - there must be alot of Ericksons driving out there...
2005-07-11 12:48:35
62.   Howard Fox
59 - -we had our shot at giles before...I don't see DePo ponying up for him
2005-07-11 12:49:39
63.   Xeifrank
I have an unanswered question from the previous discussion thread. Could someone please explain what the "Rule 5" is, and how it plays into a GMs managing of prospects.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 12:51:09
64.   Fearing Blue
#60: The buyout gets counted into the total value, so Penny's deal is effectively a 3-year / $25.5 million dollar deal. That's why I suggested 3-year /$25 million for Weaver. But, with Scott Boras as his agent, I imagine Weaver will be looking for closer to $9 - 10 million / year and in this pitching starved market he may actually get it.
2005-07-11 12:51:37
65.   FirstMohican
56 - I like that the CVC is explicit that if there's only one lane in your direction, you'd be breaking the law if you passed on the right (which would probably be on very rough pavement, if not dirt).
2005-07-11 12:52:07
66.   Howard Fox
64 - for that reason, I see Weaver gone by 7/31
2005-07-11 12:52:09
67.   scareduck
51: Dreifort comes off the books next year. The one-year payout on Green is over with. There'll be money to spend in 2006.
2005-07-11 12:53:18
68.   Howard Fox
maybe the Dodgers trade Weaver to Seattle, they need pitching, and seem to like throwing money away
2005-07-11 12:53:40
69.   Howard Fox
67 - or money to save??
2005-07-11 12:54:16
70.   FirstMohican
64 - He may get anything, especially with Penny off the market, but I don't see DePo paying more for an older pitcher who has proven less.
2005-07-11 12:55:18
71.   Steve
68 -- somebody mentioned Texas as a possible partner. That makes some sense, given that their fifth starter is Orel Hershiser.
2005-07-11 12:55:48
72.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 63



2005-07-11 12:57:09
73.   Howard Fox
71 - okay, Texas about Weaver for Soriano, move Kent to 1B, Choi can lead the H S C chant at the stadium....its all becoming clearer to me now
2005-07-11 12:57:51
74.   Marty
The worst traffic trait is the jerk who makes you pay for HIS mistake. The guy who has missed his offramp, but insists on veering over three lanes to make it, causing you to slam on the brakes.

Tracy is like that with his bunting.

2005-07-11 12:59:36
75.   FirstMohican "You hate to see a game end at second base," Tracy said. "I understand the intent of Oscar Robles. [With him at second] a single would tie the game. Two more hits off Brad Lidge doesn't happen."

Not the response I expected. I may have unrealistic expectations.

2005-07-11 13:29:42
76.   Jon Weisman
74 - My biggest peeve is the person who is ever-so-careful, driving 30 on a major city street - then runs a red light, which is infinitely more dangerous than speeding.
2005-07-11 13:36:08
77.   Marty
Red light running has gotten out of control. I hate being the first car at a light now because you really have to be on the lookout for someone blasting through the red.
2005-07-11 13:47:08
78.   fanerman
Visited firejimtracy for the first time since last week. Nice title. thumbs up
2005-07-11 13:49:11
79.   natepurcell
weaver to rangers for john danks and vicent sinisi

or weaver to the orioles for haydeen penn and Nick Markakis

either one would work for me.

2005-07-11 13:50:38
80.   dzzrtRatt
Anyone see Dateline NBC's item last Friday night on teen drivers? Apparently, at 16 their brains aren't far enough along in development to allow it. But what was scary was the hidden camera they placed in cars driven by 16-year-olds. Running red lights? These kids didn't even NOTICE red lights. They were too busy on the cell phone, fixing their hair, or talking to their friends in the back seat. Oh, and if your teenager tells you he/she 'always' wears their seatbelt? Actually, they 'never' do.

My son's 15. I made him watch with me. "My friends aren't like that!" Right.

2005-07-11 13:51:39
81.   natepurcell
when i was 16 i always wore my seatbelt.
2005-07-11 13:53:09
82.   dzzrtRatt
#79 Who? Who? Who? Who? Are these deep into Baseball America prospects? Prospects, we've got.

The idea of trading a Jeff Weaver in July is to get another team to overpay for him. Weaver for Soriano, or Blalock, or Young. Or for Melvin Mora. Those teams have an offensive surplus, but not nearly enough pitching to compete in their divisions.

2005-07-11 13:54:33
83.   Jacob L
I'm sure I'll get in trouble for saying this, but my biggest pet peeve is cars that are way too freaking large.
2005-07-11 13:57:37
84.   mcrawford
Whenever I'm in LA, I'm always reminded about how fast people drive down in LA, compared with up here in NoCal. Up here, I'm in the fast lane going +10 or +15 mph over the speed limit -- in LA, if I'm going 75 in a 65 zone, I'm definitely being passed regularly by people going 85 or 90.

Which reminds me, when I was in LA last weekend and was going to the Dodgers game, I did go to Philippe's based on the recommendations of people here. It was delicious, and very convenient to get to the game. We did miss the first few batters of the first inning, though, because the line at Philippe's was very long. We'll go again next time, hopefully. (We went to the game where the Dodgers killed the D'Backs 7-0; very enjoyable.)

It also reminded me how much more pleasant the baseball weather is in LA, than in SF.

2005-07-11 13:58:41
85.   Howard Fox
83 - I'm with you, those damn SUVs and seems the bigger the car, the smaller the driver, and the less courteous the driver
2005-07-11 13:58:48
86.   natepurcell
we arent going to get a hank blalock for 2 months of jeff weaver.
2005-07-11 14:00:05
87.   Jacob L
82, yeah but, Weaver's in the last year of his deal. One would have to imagine a pretty serious bidding war before the likes of Soriano gets put on the table. On the other hand, I guess we live in a world where the likes of Kris Benson and Woody Williams are big time pitching acquisitions.
2005-07-11 14:00:52
88.   natepurcell
penn is a 20 yr old righty pitcher in AA who was 90 something on BAs top 100 prospects.

danks is a 20 yr old lefty pitcher in AA who was 60 something on BAs top 100 prospects.

markakis is a high cieling prep outfielder in high A

sinisi is a polished hitter and outfielder in AA

2005-07-11 14:01:41
89.   Howard Fox
86 & 87 - the old sign and trade
2005-07-11 14:02:46
90.   Xeifrank
My biggest pet peave, is driving in the greater LA area. Way too many cars, can have a traffic jam on the freeway at any time and on any day. Have been stuck in traffic at 2am due to Cal Trans lane closures. Then there is the surface street traffic in LA and the Valley. Way too many intersections without left turn signals, making you take your life into your own hands turning left on the red after the oncoming red light runners have blown by. Glad I don't live in the GLAA. Biggest traffic thing I have to worry about on the way to work is getting stuck behind some farming equipment on the road, but the scenery of endless strawberry fields or whatever they have growing at the moment makes up for it.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 14:03:55
91.   rageon
I'm doubtful that we resign Weaver. We've already got 3 starters tied up for at least 3 more years, and unless Perez or Penny break down (certainly possible), I think that LA would plan on working in at least a couple of the many arms they've got in the low minors right now. You've got to think at least 2 of Jackson, Miller, Broxton, Billingsly, etc... would pan out to be leave average or better. Given that, I don't think that LA would want to hand out another 3 year deal. I would expect that LA will pray that a couple are ready for next season, or sign some old guy to a 1 year deal as a stopgap until the young guys are ready. Which is why I could see us not trading Weaver and offering him arbitration.

I'm too lazy at the moment to look up the rules, but what would the lowest that Weaver could be offered in arbitration? He's making quite a bit this season, and I really doubt that LA thinks he's a $8M+/year starter.

Are we allowed to use his scruffy beard against him in an arbitration hearing?

Perhaps we should stop mentioning Adam Dunn. It's only going to upset myself and a few others (Steve, I presume) when some other team trades B level prospects for him.

No to moving Kent to 1B. Until he can't play 2B anymore, that idea is just crazy. Secondbase is the hardest position to find offense at right now, and he just happens to be about the best there is. Of course, if we resign ourselves to the fact that Choi won't play anymore, perhaps I'd reconsider a little bit. But I think Choi > Perez, and therefore Kent-2B & Choi-1B > Kent-1B & Perez-2B. If I had my pick, I'd want to see if Perez could handle SS, but that's not happening.

Last thought. Anyone else hoping that Choi goes off in the HR contest tonight, just so people will start thinking, "How the hell is this monster sitting on the bench in LA, is Jim Tracy crazy?"

2005-07-11 14:04:10
92.   Howard Fox
90 - you are in the Oxnard area?
2005-07-11 14:04:31
93.   natepurcell
what the over/under on number of homeruns by choi today?
2005-07-11 14:04:56
94.   Fearing Blue
#82: We aren't going to be able to get anything but prospects or fringe major leaguers for Jeff Weaver. The teams that need pitching to compete can't part with key offensive pieces (i.e. Soriano, Blalock, or Mora). But, either we get a couple good prospects for Weaver now or we pay a few million dollars for the compensation draft picks next June. I'd rather have the known prospects. Plus, in my fantasy land, we'd be use the $4 million we save on Weaver towards our team next year.
2005-07-11 14:07:56
95.   Howard Fox
91 -

re 1 year deal...isn't that what Erickson was supposed to be?

re Choi tonight...sweetens a deal at 7/31 if he does well?

re Perez at short...he is too hesitant, too unsure of himself as a defender to be at short

2005-07-11 14:08:11
96.   natepurcell
fearing blue,

alot of your arby numbers are too high.

for example, bradley is making 2.5 mil this year. he wont make 7 mil next year because theres no way arby will bring his salary up close to 300%

more likely, he gets a 2-3 mil raise to around 4.5-5 mil.

2005-07-11 14:09:45
97.   Howard Fox
94 - let's $4mm on Weaver next year, save $5mm net on Dreifort, save $10mm on Green...that puts us halfway to the Oakland A's payroll level...
2005-07-11 14:10:20
98.   Xeifrank
84. Depends where in NoCal. Jose Canseco use to drive 90+ on the way home from A's games on Crow Canyon Rd. Then there's all the bottlenecks on the damm bridges. Have to take a bridge to get almost anywhere in the bay area. Go inland in NoCal and people drive 90+ all the time on I-5. Not much difference between SoCal and NoCal driving in my experiences, especially in the urban areas. If you want to see people driving too safe, drive in the Seattle area. Funny sign you see along the freeway every couple of miles is something along the lines of "Please be a polite driver".
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 14:11:46
99.   Xeifrank
92. I'm in VTA county. But luckily don't have to enter Oxnard city limits too often.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 14:13:23
100.   Howard Fox
99 - Agoura here...soon to be Moorpark...which will be great, its much easier on the 118 to Dodger Stadium than on teh 101...
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-07-11 14:13:45
101.   Steve
When I brought up Texas, it's not like I had any expectations about getting anything for Weaver.

We're not going to get Dunn. Good things never happen to us. Misery, calumny, defamation is our lot.

2005-07-11 14:15:22
102.   Howard Fox
101 - you are really a glass if half empty kind of guy...
2005-07-11 14:16:09
103.   fanerman
No glass half full for you, Steve?
2005-07-11 14:16:23
104.   Xeifrank
100. Great. Reagan/Gods country. Moorpark is nice. It's really growing, people are finally discovering what a nice place it is.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 14:16:23
105.   Vishal
97. i think it very much remains to be seen whether the mccourts intend to slash payroll like that howard. it's just as easy to speculate that the money saved will go to other personnel as it is to insinuate that it will go into mccourt's pockets.
2005-07-11 14:17:30
106.   Bob Timmermann

Does that apply to the Plaschke/Simers/Olney group of writers?

2005-07-11 14:18:07
107.   natepurcell
steve, just wait until depo unleashes my secret plan. i already sent the blueprint to him and he think its doable.
2005-07-11 14:18:29
108.   Marty
I try not too get too excited about Dunn (even though I am going on the Dunn scouting expedition). I remember the last Cincy player I was happy about getting. Eric Davis. That didn't work out so good.
2005-07-11 14:18:51
109.   fanerman
What, pray tell, is your secret plan?
2005-07-11 14:20:01
110.   the OZ
100 - I'm from Weaver Country, and yes, the 118 is AWESOME.

Moving to this area is much better than growing up here, though. It's gotten a lot nicer than it was when I was a wee lad.

2005-07-11 14:20:38
111.   rageon
#101 - exactly, I want Dunn in LA, so it will never happen.

Anyone else have a take on Perez at SS? I've read from a couple people that he can't handle the position. Isn't that his natural position; that he's played for like 5 seasons in the minors? And in the limited time in the majors, his stats show him to be only slightly below average.

2005-07-11 14:21:16
112.   Bob Timmermann
It's like Nixon's secret plan to get out of Vietnam.

What about some of the other great Reds players the Dodgers have acquired:
Rafael Landestoy
Kal Daniels
Lenny Harris

2005-07-11 14:21:46
113.   dzzrtRatt
#86 In a world of strict statistical equities, we wouldn't get a player like Blalock for two months of Weaver, but in the real world, a deal like that is far from unprecedented. If the AL West and/or WC tightens up, you'd have to think John Hart might consider something like that. Texas would love to have a starter as good as Weaver was during the last two months of '04 to match up against the Angels and A's. We shouldn't be too polite in this derby; if we're going to give up a pitcher who walks on water like Weaver, we need value in return. Plus, don't forget, an AL team that picks up Weaver gets an additional potential DH in the deal.
2005-07-11 14:23:13
114.   rageon
#95 - I don't think we signed Erickson with the expectation that he would be in the rotation. It was mostly injuries that gave him innings, and a healthy rotation would have probably lead to him starting the season in AAA.
2005-07-11 14:24:13
115.   Steve
I'm already gearing up for Sean Casey. Some horrible thing. Certainly not Adam Dunn -- won't ever happen.
2005-07-11 14:27:06
116.   natepurcell
steve is using reverse pyschology... i hope it works.

on another note, i think the big korean will win the homerun derby.

2005-07-11 14:27:48
117.   rageon
And if we DID trade for Dunn, I would almost expect him to injure himself traveling from Cincinatti to LA.
2005-07-11 14:28:40
118.   fanerman
And then we'd hear reports that Cincinatti knew he was "damaged goods."
2005-07-11 14:29:27
119.   ElysianPark62

I'm hoping Choi goes nuts in the HR derby, only for a different reason. Get another team to be so impressed that they'd be willing to trade for him. When you consider that without Choi's TWO modest hitting streaks this year he'd be well below the Mendoza line, it's sobering.

I was willing to give him a chance not too long ago, but in the last month or so, I've seen enough that I'm not cautiously optimistic anymore.

His defense continues to stink. I was in Houston for the first two games there, and he muffed that easy grounder that Taveras beat out in the 9th--a routine play. As soon as Taveras was aboard, I knew that was it. Choi's occasional hitting streak/power display does not make up for his woeful defense. Dump him if you can get anything for him.

2005-07-11 14:32:32
120.   the OZ
It's interesting how teams are automatically expected to be "buyers" or "sellers" depending on their position in July. There seems to be an expectation that if you probably won't win your division, you should trade away all your good players, or at least the ones who will be FA. Likewise, you are expected to trade away your young players for a veteran if you want to believe you can contend.

What's wrong with teams saying, "You know, we ran into some trouble this season. We didn't get the performances we had hoped to from these couple of players, and we had these key injuries...We'll just try again next year and hope for better luck"?

Given the relatively high levels of uncertainty in planning a baseball season, I'm surprised more teams don't take this position. There are times where a total demolition of a roster is a positive step, but it's an overused tool, in my opinion.

2005-07-11 14:33:49
121.   the OZ
119 - likewise, remove his two big slumps and he's AWESOME!
2005-07-11 14:34:06
122.   Bob Timmermann
If any team becomes interested in Choi because of his performance in the Home Run Derby, I would want to make a deal with that team because they must have the dumbest scouts in the world.
2005-07-11 14:34:09
123.   Fearing Blue
#96: Good point. I need to update that. I had Milton Bradley listed at $7 million in my spreadsheet when he was healthy and putting up tremendous numbers. His injury will certainly affect his arbitration salary. I think $5 million is about right. Who else do you think is high?
2005-07-11 14:35:51
124.   Howard Fox
122 - then you might be looking at the next Yankee first baseman if he wins the HR derby
2005-07-11 14:36:02
125.   Fearing Blue
#100: I grew up in Agoura and still have very fond memories.
2005-07-11 14:36:43
126.   ElysianPark62
Re: #119, I'd like to clarify. I realize that Taveras is lightning-fast, but Choi had time to get him. Perhaps he panicked because of Taveras' speed (which is a good example of what else speed can do for you other than SB's, which have virtually disappeared on this lackluster team).

I've attended about 15 games so far this year, and I've closely watched Choi at first--very poor instincts, moving the wrong way on balls, crossing over with the wrong foot, and just flat-out SLOW! Not to mention that lovely play in Chicago when he blocked Phillips' throw to Kent. The only thing he does above average is handle poor throws. That's not sufficient.

2005-07-11 14:37:30
127.   Howard Fox
125 - then you haven't been here in a while
2005-07-11 14:38:06
128.   rageon
#119 - there seems to be as many people who say his defense is solid as there are people who say that it's terrible, so I'm not going to base any opinion of him on defensive ability at the moment.

Yes, Choi appears to be streaky. But I can't imagine that spot starting him is helping that in any way. I'm of the opinion that he's got the potential to be a bigtime HR hitter, and will be worth the cold streaks. And given the choices, Choi just makes more sense than most of the other options. Saenz played too good not to give some time to, but then he goes and gets hurt. JT said all along that Saenz couldn't start everyday because he would break then he goes out and plays him everyday. When it means an extra Robles/Edwards/Phillips/etc... in the lineup, Choi is definetly my choice.

No team is going to trade anything for him. Of the teams that might appreciate him, they don't need anyone at 1B.

2005-07-11 14:40:16
129.   rageon
OK, one last post before I force myself to go and learn the elements of common law crimes.

Regarding Choi's defense, even if he does suck....he plays firstbase. So who cares, really.

2005-07-11 14:40:27
130.   fanerman
Exactly. Like I said. Choi isn't our savior (ahem), but he's better than the our other options.
2005-07-11 14:40:55
131.   Howard Fox
128 - you have got to be kidding...Choi's streak was 4 games against substandard pitching...

I'm not saying Saenz is the answer either

but Choi is definitely a liability when he is my humble opinion...

2005-07-11 14:41:03
132.   Steve
Remember, burglary only at nighttime. If it's during the day, it's not really clear what it is, but it's not burglary. ;)
2005-07-11 14:42:14
133.   Howard Fox
132 - during the daytime, its film at 11
2005-07-11 14:42:31
134.   Marty
132. Are you talking abou law, or about baseball trades? :)
2005-07-11 14:42:36
135.   fanerman
Has anybody from the media ever asked Tracy, "Do you think your spot-starting of Choi is hurting his development rather than helping since he's getting inconsistent playing time?"

We know that Tracy doesn't think of Choi as anything other than a back-up 1B... but I wonder how Tracy would respond to that.

2005-07-11 14:43:48
136.   Howard Fox
135 - nobody cares what tracy thinks, at this point
2005-07-11 14:44:56
137.   rageon
Perhaps larceny??

I've got to question any system of laws that would let someone off of half its crimes because they were drinking.

2005-07-11 14:45:24
138.   Fearing Blue
#119: That was Choi's first error of the season, and he's certainly better defensively than either Saenz or Grabowski. Kent is likely a better defensive first baseman, but that's because he's a second baseman.

Here are Choi's OPS numbers by month:

April - .818
May - .774
June - .774
July - .667

In July, even though Choi's OPS stinks, it is higher than both Saenz (.513) and Werth (.602).

2005-07-11 14:45:51
139.   ElysianPark62
Defense at 1B IS a big deal. Balls going down the line for extra-base hits, even when Choi is playing the line, are harmful. So are singles to RF that should've been groundouts. If balls like that were getting past a 3B, that player would be considered inadequate.
2005-07-11 14:46:24
140.   Fearing Blue
#120: Billy Beane is pretty consistent in saying that every year he expects to be a buyer and a seller. I agree that this is a position more teams should take.
2005-07-11 14:47:06
141.   Marty
"I think our lefty first baseman is getting starts at the appropriate time in regards to that stage of development he's at consistancy-wise. Do I think there will come a time where he gets to the place developmentally we want? Yes I do."
2005-07-11 14:49:07
142.   the OZ
If the alternative was a good defensive 1B, then it might be a valid reason to bench him. But the alternative is Olmedo Saenz of Cheerio-grasping defensive fame, or our starting catcher, which means Mike Rose in the lineup and behind the plate.

Choi is not a perfect option, but he is almost certainly the best option against all RHP.

2005-07-11 14:49:40
143.   Howard Fox
142 - a sad statement indeed
2005-07-11 14:53:29
144.   Steve
136 - I don't think even I care what Tracy thinks anymore.

137 -- I want to commit my crimes in the State of Barlaw, USA, because no one is ever guilty of anything.

2005-07-11 14:55:34
145.   Fearing Blue
#131: It's not like he was teeing off of AAA pitchers. Carlos Silva, Joe Mays, and Brad Radke would likely have a spot on anyone's pitching staff.

Joe Mays: 4.13 ERA
Terry Mulholland: 4.66 ERA
Carlos Silva: 3.53 ERA
Brad Radke: 4.15 ERA
Runelvys Hernandez: 4.53 ERA

2005-07-11 14:57:02
146.   fanerman
I can't believe what I'm hearing. Choi is my shepherd, I shall not want.

As Steve likes to say when hearing JtD away from SS, "I'm not listening! I have bananas in my ears!"

2005-07-11 14:57:52
147.   Vishal
126. i'm somewhat of a choi apologist, but people have made WAY too much out of that play in chicago. the fact is, he did not block phillips' throw, because the throw made it there, and in fact beat the runner, who was clearly out on replays. the ump blew the call, and even if it was awkward-looking, so what.

141. wow, is that a real quote or an impression. if it's an impression, it's dead on.

2005-07-11 14:58:00
148.   Fearing Blue
#135: Exactly. I think people tend to forget that Choi is only 26 years old and that this is only his second full season in the majors. A lot of players aren't "good" until 25, 26, 27, but need playing time to get to that point. I wonder what everyone is going to say when LaRoche, Guzman, Billingsley, et. al. come up and slump.
2005-07-11 15:00:32
149.   db1022
#145 - I wouldn't say that is substandard pitching either, but the fact that he went white hot during those 4 games really masks the fact that he has been really awful since early May. Hitting 6 homers in such a short amoutn of time can mask an 0 for 50 slump, in terms of slugging percentage.

I agree that Choi is better than what we have, and that Tracy should use him more. I also feel that means we have some serious upgrading to do.

2005-07-11 15:00:32
150.   Fearing Blue
#126: By my count, Choi has now made 4 clearly bad plays. Three on bunt attempts and one on Taveras ground ball (which Brazoban wouldn't have been to the bag in time for anyways). I'm pretty sure every player on the field has made at least that many.

And as far as having no range at 3B, has anyone been watching Edwards? I'd swear Choi has more range and yet, nobody complains about him.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-07-11 15:00:35
151.   Steve
147 -- that's exactly right. The guy was out.
2005-07-11 15:02:28
152.   Howard Fox

we will belittle them and condemn their abilities...we are sports fans and that is our right, and our responsibility...and we Thank Choi for that very freedom

2005-07-11 15:02:32
153.   Fearing Blue
#139: The majority of defense at first base is being able to pick throws, which from what I've seen, Choi does as well as anybody. In terms of actual defensive value, that likely balances out his lack of range.
2005-07-11 15:03:09
154.   Marty
147. I have to admit I made it up.
2005-07-11 15:03:10
155.   Jim Hitchcock
"I want to commit my crimes in the State of Barlaw, USA, because no one is ever guilty of anything."

I'm sure we can find something for you in the Patriot Act :)

2005-07-11 15:03:47
156.   JJoeScott
#145 - The Twins once allowed three HR's in one game to Adam Kennedy. To me, this fact is interconnected with Choi's binge against them. I don't know if its their scouting or what ...

I agree with everyone who has written that Saenz is not the answer at 1B. He's not.

But ... at some point, before the towel is thrown in, can we give Aybar or someone a shot at 3B, and have Kent play regularly at 1b and A.Perez 2b?

2005-07-11 15:03:56
157.   the OZ
Jon's right.

Every thread is a Choi thread.
Every thread is a Tracy thread.
Every thread is a Dunn thread.

2005-07-11 15:04:35
158.   Howard Fox
150 - we don't pick on Edwards cause we feel sorry for him having to wait so many years in the minors to make it to the majors...and the women think he's cute
2005-07-11 15:06:01
159.   Howard Fox
157-I'm dunn with choi and tracy...enough...
2005-07-11 15:06:25
160.   Marty
157. Until we find a new scab to pick at. Which is why we love July trades so much :)
2005-07-11 15:06:55
161.   db1022
#156 - It's their soft-tossing strike throwers.
2005-07-11 15:08:07
162.   Fearing Blue
#156: Do you think Aybar / Edwards at 3B, Perez at 2B, and Kent at 1B gives us a better chance to win than Perez at 3B, Kent at 2B, and Choi at 1B? Defensively it's probably a wash (or a slight downgrade with Edwards at 3B), and offensively it's a clear downgrade.
2005-07-11 15:08:15
163.   Howard Fox
161 - at least they aren't soft talkers or puffy shirt wearers
2005-07-11 15:08:58
164.   Vishal
what has the world come to when women are more attracted to scrawny, anonymous-looking ne'er-do-wells than brawny korean adonis types? tsk, tsk.
2005-07-11 15:09:52
165.   Xeifrank
119. Taveras is out if the pitcher covers first base. The pitcher has enough time to cover first base on any ground ball to the first baseman. The pitchers mound is MUCH closer to first base than home plate is.

120. If you are out of the running and you have a good player who is going to leave as a FA the next season, why not get something for him?

121. Remove Buntermaker and Choi actually gets to play. Compare Choi's OPS with other Dodger players and the overpaid Dodgers that Plaschkers would've like us to keep (LoDuca, Beltra, Green).

vr, Xei

2005-07-11 15:09:56
166.   db1022
And Saenz isn't "the answer" at 1B. He is 1/3 of the answer at 1B (Choi representing the other 2/3 of the answer). Tracy ruined it by making Saenz 4/5 of the answer.
2005-07-11 15:10:13
167.   ElysianPark62
#138: Number of errors can be misleading and certainly don't tell the whole story. E.g., Izzy has 10, while Choi has one.

The number of balls that Choi can't even get to obviously are not considered errors, a result of his slowness and lack of range.

2005-07-11 15:10:21
168.   Howard Fox
164 - women like...never mind...I better be nice here....
2005-07-11 15:12:36
169.   Xeifrank
As pointed out by many people of late, the Dodgers do have many good prospects in the minors. Mostly pitchers and infielders. People are trying to project our 25 man roster for future seasons. Doesn't anyone believe that our prospects will be used to net a good established player or two? Or do you think a lineup ripe with rookies will be the MO for the next couple of years?
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 15:12:39
170.   db1022
#167 - He's the best 1B on the team (except, as someone mentioned, Kent who happens to also be the best 2B on the team too).
2005-07-11 15:13:58
171.   Xeifrank
170. Anyone have "range factor" stats for first basemen? Looking for a comparison of Choi/Saenz to the league average.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 15:14:06
172.   db1022
#169 - I'd like to follow the blueprint of the mid-90s Yankees. Establish a core of young players, and fill in with veterans. Then play in 8 of next 10 World Series.
2005-07-11 15:14:27
173.   fanerman
What do you suggest we do about the Choi/Saenz/infield issue? Are there any solutions (offensively and defensively) that are better than having Choi at 1st (ie, better with Choi on the bench rather than on the field)?
2005-07-11 15:16:38
174.   Xeifrank
173. Sean Casey!!!!!!!!!!!
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 15:24:10
175.   Howard Fox
169 - I think we are heading in the direction of youth and price considerations. I think we are in a transition, call it rebuilding if you will, but more like downsizing our salary structure. You have to remember who our GM is and where he received his training.
2005-07-11 15:26:05
176.   Xeifrank
Jon needs to improve his predictions. :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 15:26:15
177.   Fearing Blue
The number of starts is obviously limited for each of them, but here are the defensive stats (BP's Rate2, Fielding Percentage, Range Factor, and Zone Rating) for each of our 3B options:

Antonio Perez (29 games): 92 R2; .937 FPCT; 2.81 RF; .847 ZR
Mike Edwards (27 games): 82 R2; .914 FPCT; 2.34 RF; .763 ZR
Jose Valentin (22 games): 84 R2; .918 FPCT; 2.88 RF; .776 ZR
Norihiro Nakamura (10 games): 99 R2; 1.000 FPCT; 3.00 RF; .944 ZR
Olmedo Saenz (10 games): 86 R2; 1.000 FPCT; 2.91 RF; .905 ZR
Oscar Robles (9 games): 99 R2; .982 FPCT; 4.71 RF; .833 ZR

Based on the statistics and observation, I'd say defensively our 3B options rank as follows:

1. Norihiro Nakamura
2. Antonio Perez
3. Oscar Robles
4. Jose Valentin
5. Mike Edwards
6. Olmedo Saenz

I'm chalking Saenz's defensive statistics up to small sample sizes, since reconciling the concept of him being strong defensively at 3B might make my head explode.

After thinking about this, I may be jumping back on the Nakamura bandwagon. Here is the comparison of the Las Vegas / MLB statistics for Edwards and Nakamura:

Edwards (AAA): .284/.366/.444 in 81 ABs
Nakamura (AAA): .286/.348/.558 in 206 ABs

Edwards (MLB): .284/.366/.444 in 126 ABs
Nakamura (MLB): .128/.171/.179 in 39 ABs

2005-07-11 15:28:16
178.   Xeifrank
175. I think Depo is trained to get the most bang for the buck. Doesn't necessarily mean we won't be spending much money, just that we will be hopefully spending it more efficiently. But that waits to be seen.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 15:29:26
179.   natepurcell
i cant believe edwards has the exact same line in AAA and in the majors, thats kooky.
2005-07-11 15:29:47
180.   Howard Fox
177 - I also like Nakamura, I think he wasn't given a fair shot, and of all the pretenders to the third base position, I liked him the best.
2005-07-11 15:31:37
181.   Howard Fox
177 - of course I like Robles and Perez too, and would be fine with trading Izturis away
2005-07-11 15:32:30
182.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 170

I can't be as thorough as Fearing is with 3B fielding, but BPro has Choi as 3 runs below average at 1B. For his career, he's at the average. Saenz is 5 runs below average this season at 1B and 4 runs below for his career.

For a frame of reference, Green last year was a surprisingly low five runs below average last year at 1B.

For Choi, see:

For Saenz, see:

For Green, see:


2005-07-11 15:32:31
183.   Howard Fox
I think if you package Weaver with Izturis and whomever, I think you could get alot of help coming back our way
2005-07-11 15:33:46
184.   db1022
#180 - He's also the only one whose baseball card said "Third Basemen" prior to this year.
2005-07-11 15:35:20
185.   ElysianPark62
There are no ideal options here, obviously. I would be inclined to start Kent at 1B and have Perez at 2B when Valentin returns. I am more optimistic about Perez's overall contributions than I am about Choi's. Choi has had more slumps than good streaks, so the suggestion that he'd be awesome if you took out the slumps doesn't wash.

Perez has made some very good plays on defense, even at third, where people have questioned his abilities. Whoever they play, though, I'd like to see fewer line-up variations used. This has been a Tracy hallmark through his tenure, and with the astounding injuries this year, it's clearly been more of an issue.

But even that many injuries don't necessitate changing the line-up nightly. Let guys stay in one spot and see how they do for several games. Let them establish some confidence and consistency. Injuries are no excuse for such randomness.

And if a player happens to get three or four hits in a game, don't even consider benching him the next night to keep him fresh or avoid having righty vs. righty, etc. That fries my butt!

I'm out now. See y'all.

2005-07-11 15:36:23
186.   Fearing Blue
#171: Might as well do the same thing for first basemen. Here it is:

Hee Seop Choi (59 games): 95 R2; .998 FPCT; 10.51 RF; .822 ZR
Olmedo Saenz (33 games): 81 R2; 1.000 FPCT; 9.32 RF; .813 ZR
Jason Grabowski (3 games): 101 R2; 1.000 FPCT; 12.38 RF; .000 ZR
Jeff Kent (5 games): 100 R2; 1.000 FPCT; 10.74 RF; .846 ZR
Norihiro Nakamura (4 games): 100 R2; .947 FPCT; 10.80 RF; .667 ZR

Again, based on statistics and observation, I'd rank them as follows:

1. Jeff Kent
2. Hee Seop Choi
3. Jason Grabowski
4. Olmedo Saenz

2005-07-11 15:36:58
187.   fanerman
Fair enough. Yeah. I agree with you about Tracy's micromanaging (as do I'm sure many here).
2005-07-11 15:37:12
188.   natepurcell
izzy is the type of player tradionalist GMs overvalue and would pay a hefty return for.
2005-07-11 15:38:01
189.   Fearing Blue
#179: He doesn't. My editor missed that :). Here are Edwards actual splits:

Edwards (AAA): .284/.366/.444 in 81 ABs
Edwards (MLB): .294/.331/.397 in 126 ABs

2005-07-11 15:38:43
190.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 186

Dude, you're like a statistical machine! =) In the time it takes me to look up the numbers for my post 182, you run the stats for BOTH 1B and 3B. DePo needs to give you a job or something.... You can help with nate's secret plan.


2005-07-11 15:39:13
191.   ElysianPark62
Another option would be to platoon Robles and Perez at 2B with Kent at 1B and Valentin at 3B. However, I generally don't favor platoons. I have been impressed with Robles, though. Nice to see him succeed.
2005-07-11 15:40:21
192.   natepurcell
fearing blue, when depo gives you a job, hire me as assistant farm coordinator or something cool like that.
2005-07-11 15:40:33
193.   Fearing Blue
#188: Exactly. If we were willing to package up Weaver, Izturis, and Brazoban we could ask for just about anything. I'm just not sure what we would ask for :).
2005-07-11 15:41:54
194.   Fearing Blue
#190/192: I can't even get Nate to tell me his secret plan. Without that as my ultimate bargaining chip, how am I supposed to get a job working with DePodesta?
2005-07-11 15:42:23
195.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 193

I still don't like giving up Brazoban with Gagne's status so uncertain. How about Weaver, Izzy, and Saenz to an AL team that can have Saenz DH? That's till too gutsy a trade I think, even for DePo. Izzy has value due to his relatively low cost, which will be enough for DePo I think.


2005-07-11 15:42:28
196.   natepurcell
If we were willing to package up Weaver, Izturis, and Brazoban we could ask for just about anything.

a world series championship?

2005-07-11 15:42:39
197.   fanerman
You and Nate can pretend to be one person. With your stat skills and Nate's secret plan, there's no stopping you.
2005-07-11 15:43:45
198.   Fearing Blue
#191: I like Robles as well. He can play all three infield positions decently and he controls the strike zone. But, he's not spectacular defensively at any position, and he doesn't really have any pop. I think his upside is probably as a very useful backup infielder on a contending team (i.e. the 2006 Dodgers).
2005-07-11 15:45:18
199.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 192

I'd like a job as resident Dodger historian. I'll learn a Korean and write a biography of Choi.

I have seriously considered writing a history book on baseball later in my career after I get tenure--Choi willing.


2005-07-11 15:46:43
200.   Fearing Blue
#195: Yeah. I don't think that we'll trade any of them, but those are our three players whose market value is the highest relative to their value with the Dodgers. Even if we traded Brazoban and Gagne was injured, I think we'd be able to come up with an in-house solution amongst our young power arms in the minors.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-07-11 15:49:59
201.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
After Valentin comes back, might A. Perez be trade bait for a team which needs a young 2B with upside? His defense is so iffy, and he lacks Robles' versatility and Izzy's status as a fan favorite. I'd rather try out a Valentin/Nakamura platoon at 3B for the remainder of the year, and maybe see if Nori can be an internal stopgap next season.


2005-07-11 15:51:21
202.   JJoeScott
Has Saenz's value so dramatically increased that he's worth something in a trade? I thought we recovered him from the proverbial scrapheap.
2005-07-11 15:52:02
203.   natepurcell
saenz is a "professional" hitter, so some team will always wants one of those.
2005-07-11 15:52:53
204.   db1022
#202 - I thought Saenz would be a nice addition to a club looking for some RH pop in a DH slot.

I think Tracy played him out of that though. Now he's back to being a washout.

2005-07-11 15:54:06
205.   Fearing Blue
#190: Very efficient browser usage :).

Here are the numbers for our second basemen:

Jeff Kent (80 games): 92 R2; .976 FPCT; 5.28 RF; .810 ZR
Antonio Perez (12 games): 88 R2; .978 FPCT; 5.45 RF; .735 ZR

1. Jeff Kent
2. Antonio Perez

Here are the numbers for our shortstops:

Cesar Izturis (72 games): 104 R2; .976 FPCT; 4.70 RF; .847 ZR
Oscar Robles (15 games): 100 R2; .982 FPCT; 4.71 RF; .833 ZR
Antonio Perez (5 games): 100 R2; .938 FPCT; 3.86 RF; .769 ZR

1. Cesar Izturis
2. Oscar Robles
3. Antonio Perez

For these two positions, it's refreshing to see the rankings match up with the games played.

2005-07-11 15:54:30
206.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 204

Yeah, it would've been better to trade Saenz when he still had gaudy offensive numbers and wasn't nursing a bad back from overuse.


2005-07-11 15:54:31
207.   db1022
What did the Red Sox give up for Cabrera last year? Was it a 3-way with Nomar, or was that a seperate deal?

The success they had after acquiring him could be a good prescedent if the Dodgers decide to put Izturis on the market.

2005-07-11 15:54:35
208.   Steve
Nakamura. Blah. It takes about two minutes to forget how he got eaten alive trying to hit stepping halfway up the third base line.
2005-07-11 15:57:10
209.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 207

Think it was a 3-way with Minnesota to also get Doug M., and I think they had to give up a pretty good prospect--part of the reason why the deal looked somewhat desperate at first. It obviously worked out, though.


2005-07-11 15:58:46
210.   Fearing Blue
#208: He did look mightily overmatched against major league pitching. But, it was still only 39 ABs. He must be doing something right to put up decent numbers in AAA. And now that Tracy has decided Edwards is our everyday third baseman, I'm desparately searching for an out.
2005-07-11 15:59:13
211.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 207

Unfortunately, the BoSox trade doesn't really set a good precedent for us, because the Red Sox had an offense that could mash without Nomar and a rotation with Schilling and Pedro at the top. Epstein gambled that a ring would erase the sting of trading a Boston legend, and it worked. Our underlying team just isn't good enough for DePo to get the one piece that puts us over, no matter how overvalued Izzy is.


2005-07-11 15:59:32
212.   Steve
He must be doing something right to put up decent numbers in AAA.

Yeah, he's doing something right. He's playing in AAA.

2005-07-11 15:59:46
213.   dzzrtRatt
If we're trading Antonio Perez, that would be part of a trade in which we overpay. I think we only would do that if we were already in first place, trying to fill a hole that might keep us from going deep in the playoffs. Overpayers let go of youth and take on salary in order to win now. Trade in haste, repent in leisure.

We want to be on the other side of the equation--the overpaid. The ones saying "step right up here Mr. GM, we've got just what you need: A quality starter, the most exciting young infielder in the majors, a man who Vin Scully himself referred to as a 'thoroughly professional hitter,' and a veteran bullpen presence. Believe me, you won't miss all those home runs from your third baseman/left fielder, when you see our fellows take the field in your uniform!"

2005-07-11 16:01:16
214.   Fearing Blue
#201: If we can find some team that sees him as a starting 2B with upside, we should probably go for it. Willy Aybar can fill in as a backup 2B/3B next year.
2005-07-11 16:03:26
215.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Give Nori another chance! Really, what have we got to lose?

His Japan League numbers give him a better resume than Edwards, and he still has more power potential in my view than Perez. Besides, Nori was a gold glover--with all these groundball pitchers, we really need to shore up the IF defense. All he needs to do is have comparable offensive output to Perez and Edwards at 3B, and he'd be a better option next year as a stop gap before LaRoche is ready.

Besides, he's also got a great personal story behind--the man who walked away from millions in Japan and is toiling away in AAA so he can play in the bigs. He and Robles can be the warm-and-fuzzy players we can carry over into next season--some compensation for this year's dismal season.



2005-07-11 16:03:38
216.   Bob Timmermann
From the Transactions listing from Retrosheet for Nomar Garciaparra:
Traded by Boston Red Sox with Matt Murton to Chicago Cubs as part of 4-team trade in
which Chicago Cubs sent Brendan Harris, Alex Gonzalez and Francis Beltran to
Montreal Expos; Montreal Expos sent Orlando Cabrera to Boston Red Sox; Minnesota
Twins sent Doug Mientkiewicz to Boston Red Sox; and Chicago Cubs sent Justin Jones
to Minnesota Twins(July 31, 2004).
2005-07-11 16:03:57
217.   Fearing Blue
#212: Nakamura's stats in Las Vegas are much better than Edwards stats in Las Vegas. Of course, that's probably because Edwards is a contact hitter with no power and Nakamura is a swing-and-miss guy with warning track power.
2005-07-11 16:05:35
218.   db1022
#208 - Pining away for the good old days of Nakamura...this has been a rough season.
2005-07-11 16:06:49
219.   fanerman
Yeah I know what you mean. Still, how much do we have to lose? More games I guess...
2005-07-11 16:09:16
220.   Howard Fox
219 - we are playing at a .380 clip, is Nakamura going to hurt us? for that matter, when Izzy comes back, we of course bench Robles...but he needs a rest, he must be exhausted from all the running, what with getting 3 hits a game every game...
2005-07-11 16:09:16
221.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 213

But if Perez's BABIP numbers indicate he's due for a regression, might he not be overvalued right now? Besides, with Kent, we can only play him at 3B, where we might get similar production out of equivalently inexpensive players like Nori, Edwards, and Robles. Furthermore, we have plenty of depth in the IF long-term. Perez's upside and youth are not as valuable to us in my view as it might be to another team. A package of Weaver and him might really net a decent starter for next season or the OF we need.


2005-07-11 16:09:19
222.   Steve
I'm hearing a Scrappy Nori argument here.
2005-07-11 16:10:37
223.   Howard Fox
222 - don't nak that
2005-07-11 16:10:52
224.   Bob Timmermann
My hotel in Sapporo served scrappynori every morning. It tastes good if you put some soy sauce on it.
2005-07-11 16:10:56
225.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 220

Exactly, what harm is there in bring Nori back up? If he tanks again, so what--we end up dead last instead of in 4th place?


2005-07-11 16:11:01
226.   fanerman
I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Just saying, wow we're stooping pretty low.
2005-07-11 16:11:44
227.   db1022
#209 - They in effect sent Nomar and Murton for Cabrera and Mientkiewicz (wow, I really hate spelling Mientkiewicz!). And still won the World Series?
2005-07-11 16:12:26
228.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 226

Hey, considering how long are expectations are, if Nori becomes even a vaguely competent hitter, it'll take some of the season's sting away. And there's a very outside chance he could actually be decent.


2005-07-11 16:12:45
229.   fanerman
I'm up for a little experimenting now. Might as well shake things up.
2005-07-11 16:12:49
230.   Steve
Here let me make your argument to me, for you:

"Steve, Tracy keeps bunting with Antonio Perez. You think he'll let Nakamura bunt?"

"I never looked at it that way. OK, you got it. Trade Perez to the Pirates and bring on the Nak-meister"

Problem solved.

2005-07-11 16:14:19
231.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 227

Now that I think about, I wonder if the conventional wisdom about Cabrera being the missing piece is really correct. I can't remember who the BoSox's previous backup SS was. Maybe the BoSox just started playing to their potential, which might have happenned if Nomar was still around? Anyhow, it made Theo look like a genius.


2005-07-11 16:15:48
232.   Steve
231 -- If the Red Sox win this year, it will be all Alex Cora's doing. That is guaranteed.
2005-07-11 16:15:56
233.   Howard Fox
231 - Cabrera had some pretty key hits in the playoffs
2005-07-11 16:15:58
234.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 228

"long are" should be "low are." I wonder if anyone else makes these sort of odd errors in their writing. Embarassing for a college instructor.


2005-07-11 16:16:53
235.   Howard Fox
234 - do you teach english?
2005-07-11 16:17:46
236.   db1022
#225 - NO!!! WE MUST FINISH AHEAD OF THE GIANTS!!! If we fall below the Giants, after this the great YEAR OF DEPODESTA, and no Bonds for them. I have many a Giant fan friend, and if we finish beneath them this year...I may have to find new friends.
2005-07-11 16:18:11
237.   fanerman
I do all the time. I type words that sound similar to the word I'm thinking of but mean something completely different. Of course I'm not an expert on the english language.. but I think of myself as above average in the world of engineers at least.
2005-07-11 16:18:32
238.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 235

History, 19th century US military--mostly Civil War--at the Naval Academy. For me at least, history is still a humanistic discipline that requires the ability to put together a decent declarative sentence.



2005-07-11 16:19:04
239.   Howard Fox
236 - having friends is over-rated
2005-07-11 16:19:06
240.   Bob Timmermann
"long are" should be "low are." I wonder if anyone else makes these sort of odd errors in their writing. Embarassing for a college instructor.

More embarrassing than misspelling "embarrassing"? :-)

2005-07-11 16:20:05
241.   Fearing Blue
Baseball Prospectus really likes Tydus Meadows, the 27-year old outfielder we have playing in Jacksonville. They projected him for a .260/.342/.454 batting line in the majors.
2005-07-11 16:20:23
242.   Howard Fox
Now that's embarrassing....
2005-07-11 16:20:24
243.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 234

Well, that makes me feel better.

Actually, I think the increasing errors in my writing stem from hunger. Off to dinner...


2005-07-11 16:20:37
244.   Vishal
231. pokey reese?

a trade to the pirates: yhency, izturis, and weaver for lawton and mike gonzalez?

2005-07-11 16:21:35
245.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 240/42


I will hang my head in shame now over dinner!


2005-07-11 16:21:39
246.   Vishal
that feels like we're giving up too much. i'd probably keep yhency.
2005-07-11 16:22:56
247.   Bob Timmermann
Well two guys are off the market now.

The Twins have acquired Bret Boone and Tampa Bay has signed Joe Borowski.

2005-07-11 16:23:03
248.   Howard Fox
give the Pirates Duaner...
2005-07-11 16:23:42
249.   Marty
"long are" should be "low are."

Shouldn't it be "low our"?

2005-07-11 16:24:48
250.   Fearing Blue
#241: He's also the best hitter on the Suns with more than 100 ABs, with a .288/.431/.519 batting line. I wonder why he's lower than CFC on the depth chart.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-07-11 16:24:56
251.   fanerman
You're right.
2005-07-11 16:25:10
252.   Steve
I'm guessing they don't want Duaner, seeing as that's where we got him in the first place.

Wow, Borowski fell all the way to Tampa Bay. There but for...

2005-07-11 16:25:17
253.   Howard Fox
maybe Lowe Hour?
2005-07-11 16:26:10
254.   Howard Fox

...the grace of Choi go I...

2005-07-11 16:26:14
255.   fanerman
2005-07-11 16:26:32
256.   Xeifrank
Bringing Nori back up and playing him at 3B and saying "he hit well in Japan / he hit well in AAA, what do we have to lose", makes about as much sense as putting Erickson back in the starting lineup and saying "He's a crafty veteran / his wife is hot, what do we have to lose".
Not only did Nori put up awful stats with the Dodgers in his small sample size, but he looked awful. He looked like he couldn't hit major league pitching. He was good for a weak groundball down the firstbase line or a line drive into the visitors dugout and not much more. Nice defense, but until he stops swinging like a _____ (insert insult here) what good is it.
vr, Xei
2005-07-11 16:27:49
257.   Howard Fox
put Erickson at first and bat him at leadoff
2005-07-11 16:28:16
258.   Howard Fox
...cause his wife is hot...
2005-07-11 16:28:47
259.   fanerman
And hope he gets hit by pitch in his throwing wrist?
2005-07-11 16:29:07
260.   Bob Timmermann
If Nakamura comes back up to the Dodgers and plays in a month that doesn't start with the letters S or O, I will be surprised. That would mean that Edwards, Robles, Perez all got injured and Valentin never recovered well enough.
2005-07-11 16:29:46
261.   Howard Fox
260-so what are you saying?
2005-07-11 16:30:00
262.   Jon Weisman
225 - "Exactly, what harm is there in bring Nori back up? If he tanks again, so what--we end up dead last instead of in 4th place?"

Actually, I think that would bother plenty of people. Now, it might not bother you, though I'm guessing you have some interest in where the Dodgers finish.

I'm also going to make the assumption that you don't think Nakamura can propel the team into first place, since the height of your expectations in 228 is that "there's a very outside chance he could actually be decent."

There may be no harm in bringing up Nakamura. But is there any point? He's not likely to make a difference, and it's not like he's a prospect. He's a 31-year-old AAA player with knee problems.

228, cont'd. "Hey, considering how long are expectations are, if Nori becomes even a vaguely competent hitter, it'll take some of the season's sting away."

The Dodgers have plenty of vaguely competent hitters. That's not their problem. Mike Edwards and Antonio Perez are very much vaguely competent.

More likely (not definite, but more likely), bringing up Nakamura will add to the season's sting by being another disappointment. And again, you'll have spent at-bats on a non-prospect, for what?

The "what have we got to lose" mentality, as I have said before, is a faulty one. You should be framing your question as "What have we got to gain?" And if your best case scenario is "a vaguely competent or decent hitter," then you should probably re-think the idea.

2005-07-11 16:30:47
263.   Howard Fox
259-our luck, he'd be the only one on the team who didn't get hurt when hit by a pitch
2005-07-11 16:31:18
264.   Fearing Blue
#244: I can't see why we would want Lawton and I can't see why the Pirates would want Weaver. They'd both be 2 month rentals and we're both out of it. Also, swapping Gonzalez and Brazoban seems a little silly for both teams since they have roughly the same upside.

I guess I wouldn't mind trading for Lawton if we could get him to sign a 2-year extension for $10-11 million. But, I think he's going to be looking for more with the really weak free agent market.

2005-07-11 16:31:52
265.   ddger
Anyone know when the HR contest starts and what channel?
2005-07-11 16:32:40
266.   Howard Fox
262-Jon, you're awake!!
2005-07-11 16:33:14
267.   Steve
But if that's true don't we offer him arbitration and take the free draft picks? It's not like he's going to cost anything. Weaver is way overpaying for Lawton, and I don't even like Weaver.
2005-07-11 16:34:08
268.   Howard Fox
HR hitting contest, 8:00 ET on ESPN
2005-07-11 16:35:31
269.   Fearing Blue
#262: The upside with Nakamura is based around next year. If he can be a remotely competent major league hitter with above average defense, he could hold down the fort until it's LaBomb time. I don't think we can plan on Edwards holding down the fort due to defensive concerns, and Tracy doesn't like how Perez "looks" at third base.
2005-07-11 16:36:24
270.   Howard Fox
so Jon, is it long are, or low are, or long our, or lowe hour or low our...
2005-07-11 16:36:33
271.   Steve
I don't like how Perez looks at third base.
2005-07-11 16:36:52
272.   Fearing Blue
#267: I guess, but Lawton's not going to win us the pennant, so are the two draft picks worth the $3.5 million we'd have to pay Lawton?
2005-07-11 16:37:24
273.   Howard Fox
269 - LaBomb....that's a good one, very funny
2005-07-11 16:37:46
274.   ddger
Wasn't Robles supposed to be good fielder according to Tracy and Depo. Robles must be concentrating so much on hitting lately that he has neglected his fielding.

Also, I think Odalis Perez will end up being a bad signing. I'll be very surprised if he'll be here through the end of his contract.

2005-07-11 16:38:18
275.   Fearing Blue
#271: Good point. The only place I've really been pleased seeing Perez is in the batter's box. I do like him better at third base better than anywhere else in the infield, which his defensive stats suppport.
2005-07-11 16:38:26
276.   fanerman
Are there any prospects to play at 3B now?
2005-07-11 16:38:53
277.   Howard Fox
272-judging by the way the A's do things, $3.5mm for 2 draft picks might be worth it
2005-07-11 16:40:07
278.   ddger
268. Tracy must be praying that his own player (Choi) does terribly so that he'll look good on his decision to bench Choi so much this season.
2005-07-11 16:40:53
279.   Howard Fox
274-I wouldn't be surprised to see both Weaver and OPerez go by 7/31...along with Izzy, Choi, Brazoban...

I see 2 separate big deals coming...maybe a couple OFs coming our way plus prospects

2005-07-11 16:41:19
280.   Fearing Blue
#274: Defensively, Robles is probably our second best shortstop option, second best second base option, and second or third best third base option. I'd say that's pretty good considering who is ahead of him (Cesar Izturis, Jeff Kent, and Norihiro Nakamura).
2005-07-11 16:41:22
281.   Steve
Yeah, I'm just sayin'.

Well, it's not my three million. It would be worth it not to be playing Grabowski and Repko every night. I don't care whether we get Lawton, though he is not on my self-immolation list.

2005-07-11 16:42:46
282.   Fearing Blue
#276: Willy Aybar. He'd likely be better defensively than anyone but Nakamura, but hit less than any of our other options.
2005-07-11 16:43:57
283.   ddger
280. Do you think that Robles can be starting infielder or will he always be a backup and that his hitting is just temporary.
2005-07-11 16:45:04
284.   Howard Fox
I still don't understand why so many other teams seem to find phenoms in their farm systems (that are all supposedly inferior to ours) who come up in only a couple of years and make a big impact.

If our systems is so good, why don't we have any of these players?

2005-07-11 16:45:33
285.   Howard Fox
283 - Tracy will cool Robles off
2005-07-11 16:45:35
286.   Jon Weisman
270 - Lo! hör?

I really didn't expect 300 comments on an off-day, at least before Hee Seop's swings. And not one comment on the premise of this morning's post (beyond the traffic discussion). Which actually makes me quite happy, as I'm glad this audience recognizes the clubhouse turmoil for the non-story that it is.

269 - I suppose, but what do you think would happen? Let's say Nakamura came up and OPSed .850 in the final 2 1/2 months. I think that's by far a best-case scenario. I still wouldn't feel all that great about banking on him as a stopgap. And it just seems so unlikely he would do that.

The likely story is - Edwards' MLB batting average is somewhat lucky, he's not really that good, and neither is Nakamura.

Remember, Valentin will be back in about a month, taking away some at-bats. I would give the remaining third base at-bats to the one in-house player with growth potential - Perez. (Or someone else from the minors who is young.) Let him work on his fielding and learn to hit as a third baseman, and see where that takes you.

2005-07-11 16:46:17
287.   fanerman
2007 (and maybe the end of 2006). If we don't have any big impact rookies by then, then our farm is overrated. Until then... there's no point judging.
2005-07-11 16:46:41
288.   Fearing Blue
#273: Three of our top prospects have pretty good nicknames:

Andy LaRoche - LaBomb
Joel Guzman - JtD (Joel the Destroyer)
Chad Billingsley - C-Bill

Then there are the works in progress:

Jonathan Broxton - K-Brox
Russell Martin - Heart of Canada, Canadian LoDuca, ???

2005-07-11 16:47:38
289.   Jon Weisman
284 - Do so many other teams really do that so often - produce big impact prospects? I saw the review of midseason rookie of the year candidates in each league, and it's not an impressive list.
2005-07-11 16:47:40
290.   Mark
Well, I submitted my question for Buster Olney. "Buster, how can MLB justify Hee-Seop Choi in this contest, when Jim Tracy won't even start him in everyday games?"
2005-07-11 16:48:06
291.   fanerman
#286 - Jon,
Dodger Thoughts isn't just YOUR outlet for dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers and baseball. =)
2005-07-11 16:48:28
292.   Howard Fox
289 - it's not every year, but they never seem to come from our system
2005-07-11 16:49:38
293.   natepurcell
choi should bat second in the homerun derby, since he always hits better second.
2005-07-11 16:49:45
294.   Steve
290 -- Please don't encourage the inmates.
2005-07-11 16:50:18
295.   Mark
294 - I'm hoping for a Productive Comment (tm).
2005-07-11 16:51:11
296.   Steve
2005-07-11 16:51:43
297.   fanerman
2005-07-11 16:52:21
298.   Fearing Blue
#286: I agree. I would rather see Perez at third base than Edwards, but I don't think Tracy feels the same way. I'd be fine with the originally constituted Valentin / Perez platoon once Valentin is healthy.
2005-07-11 16:54:00
299.   natepurcell
laroche- labomb
guzman- joel the destroyer
broxton- the bull (thats his nickname already)
billingsley- c-bills
loney- J-lo
jackson- ejax
2005-07-11 16:54:18
300.   fanerman
Wouldn't it be nice if Valentin can jumpstart the Dodgers a little? Maybe we miss him more than we realize.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-07-11 16:54:21
301.   natepurcell
martin- canadian mountee of walks
2005-07-11 16:54:43
302.   Fearing Blue
Does Comerica have a low wall in right field? Choi's homeruns never seem to clear 15 feet.
2005-07-11 16:56:27
303.   dzzrtRatt
Gosh, so many choices: Jose Valentin, Mike Edwards, Nohi Nakamura or Antonio Perez. I'm like a kid in a candy shop!

2007 can't come too early. I hope there isn't a strike that year.

2005-07-11 16:57:16
304.   dzzrtRatt
I'm not sure Edwin Jackson's mother would be thrilled with his new nickname.
2005-07-11 16:57:19
305.   ElysianPark62
#211: Wayne, I am afraid you're right. No single deal or player is going to right the ship. At this point, there are too many leaks to plug, certainly not worth giving up multiple prospects for.

I felt different about it a few weeks ago, thinking they might turn it around. I haven't completely given up because stranger things have happened. But a lot of things would suddenly have to go right.

On a side note, I heard a ridiculous comment from Ken Dayley a few minutes ago on Lee Hamilton's show. Dayley claimed the Dodgers have neither the minor league depth nor the financial resources to make a deal right now.

2005-07-11 16:57:44
306.   ElysianPark62
#305: I meant "multiple top prospects."
2005-07-11 16:59:59
307.   natepurcell
I heard a ridiculous comment from Ken Dayley a few minutes ago on Lee Hamilton's show. Dayley claimed the Dodgers have neither the minor league depth nor the financial resources to make a deal right now

let them think that way. then we wont be pressured to trade billingsley or laroche and etc.

2005-07-11 17:00:12
308.   fanerman
When is Choi's turn?
2005-07-11 17:00:39
309.   ElysianPark62
#300, I think his absence's effects have been underestimated. Many people didn't like him and figured his loss wouldn't hurt, even being pleased he was out of there. But the team started tanking when he went down. His average likely wouldn't have been good, but I think he would've driven in his share of runs. And his leadership and good attitude were apparent.
2005-07-11 17:01:04
310.   Fearing Blue
#299: Ah yes. I forgot about "The Bull". It fits since he's 6'4" and listed at 240 lbs. (a heavy 240, since he's been up to 277).

James Loney - I'm tiring of the nickname J-Lo. It's too common, and Loney isn't on my top 10 list anyhow :).

Edwin Jackson - I like "Jax" better than "E-Jax". E-Jax sounds too much like the bathroom cleaner.

Russell Martin - Steve was hoping for something with Heart, Soul, or LoDuca to get on Plaschke's good side.

2005-07-11 17:02:19
311.   ElysianPark62
I'm watching the opening of the HR derby. Can anyone tell me why they need a grunge band opening the ceremonies? Just like the Super Bowl. Sigh.
2005-07-11 17:02:56
312.   natepurcell
candian mountee of walks... and heart :)
2005-07-11 17:04:07
313.   fanerman
So not only will the 2007 Dodgers be WS contenders, they'll also have insanely cool nicknames?
2005-07-11 17:04:35
314.   Mark
Oh, crap.

Buster Olney agreed with me.

2005-07-11 17:04:43
315.   ddger
Is LaRoche better power hitting prospect than Guzman right now?
2005-07-11 17:04:45
316.   Howard Fox
305 -

I would say you look at our team as if all are healthy, and make a trade or two to fix what might be a leak or leaks in that regard.

As far as Lee Hamilton goes, he is no different than Joe McDonald on ESPN, they both speak from authority and know nothing.

2005-07-11 17:04:49
317.   natepurcell
So not only will the 2007 Dodgers be WS contenders, they'll also have insanely cool nicknames?

all part of the secret master plan

2005-07-11 17:06:12
318.   natepurcell
Is LaRoche better power hitting prospect than Guzman right now?

laroche is more polished. but guzman has more raw power and power upside.

both project to hit 40 homeruns in the bigs. guzman will take a little longer to develop than laroche because he is a year younger and is still refining his strike zone.

2005-07-11 17:06:23
319.   Steve
310 -- It's like naming an initiative. You have to have the word "children" or "school" in it, and it will pass.

I like how they posted the year's HR numbers for everyone, then posted that Ivan The Small had "256 Career HRs"

311 -- Berman called them a "good homegrown sound," so Plaschke would approve

2005-07-11 17:07:11
320.   Fearing Blue
#309: I agree. The Dodgers have gotten a .706 OPS from 3B with pretty lousy defense. Of course, some of that is due to Valentin's early season production. Nonetheless, over the past three years, Valentin has averaged an .838 OPS vs. RHP. As was the original intent, he would be a very effective half of a 3B platoon. With all our other bats missing, I think he would help a lot.
2005-07-11 17:07:31
321.   Jim Hitchcock
Piazza, Damon on stage groupies?

Film at Eleven.

2005-07-11 17:09:37
322.   ddger
318. Do you really think that they can hit 40 in the Majors? Maybe 30's might be more likely. It's quite difficult to hit 40 without steroids now days.
2005-07-11 17:09:45
323.   Steve
314 -- Explain. It should be amusing.
2005-07-11 17:10:09
324.   fanerman
#317, Nate
All I have to say is, there better be Dodger Thoughts officially licensed and collectable t-shirts for everybody. The Bull, LaBomb, JtD, the Canadian Mountee of Walks... and Heart, Jax, and J-Lo.
2005-07-11 17:10:33
325.   natepurcell
318. Do you really think that they can hit 40 in the Majors? Maybe 30's might be more likely. It's quite difficult to hit 40 without steroids now days.

maybe i dunno. baseball america seems to think so.

2005-07-11 17:10:55
326.   ElysianPark62
#316--Ken Dayley made that comment, not Lee Hamilton.
2005-07-11 17:11:56
327.   Mark
323- Olney responded to my question (or at least Olney's handler responded):

"Mark: They're going global, of course; he's the best HR hitter from his country, and that's more important to MLB this year than picking the best HR hitters. I don't agree with it, but that's the way they're playing it."

2005-07-11 17:12:01
328.   Fearing Blue
#314: I just checked the chat log and didn't see your question. What exactly was Olney's response?
2005-07-11 17:12:09
329.   ddger
325. I think BA is overly optimistic. If they end up hitting 40 then we should be set for the next decade.
2005-07-11 17:13:32
330.   Steve
It's true that eventually, they start hitting home runs right? It's not just grunge bands and commercials and Chris Berman and Buster Olney with his head up his rear end? Right?

What do we think about the Wheaties commercial with the Gibson call?

2005-07-11 17:13:40
331.   Mark
FB- not the Insider Olney chat, the chat that's going on in the little HR tracker window.
2005-07-11 17:14:16
332.   ddger
If we can get Dunn and keep LaRoche and Guzman, we can end up with three 40 HR hitters in our lineup. I guess we can dream.
2005-07-11 17:14:23
333.   natepurcell
325. I think BA is overly optimistic. If they end up hitting 40 then we should be set for the next decade.

thats why we are all overly optimistic about the dodgers future :)

if you think about it, look at laroche, he already has 26 homeruns at age 21 lol.

2005-07-11 17:15:00
334.   ElysianPark62
There is no escape from Gnat homers, Berman and Morgan. Egad. What obnoxious, loudmouthed individuals. I wouldn't be surprised if they got in some cracks about the Dodgers.
2005-07-11 17:15:06
335.   ddger
Is there any HR contest in a minor league all star game.
2005-07-11 17:15:20
336.   natepurcell
What do we think about the Wheaties commercial with the Gibson call?

i thought it was awesome because it was vin scully they were using for the commentary

2005-07-11 17:16:01
337.   Fearing Blue
#318: Exactly. LaRoche's power is already developed, whereas Guzman still has a fair amount of unrealized potential. As far as plate disciple goes, LaRoche makes better contact and Guzman takes a few more walks. The contact ability is more important in terms of success against advanced pitching.
2005-07-11 17:18:05
338.   ddger
337. I think LaRoche might be able to hit over .250 with at least 20 HR's next year. This is definitely an improvment over Valentin/Perez/Edwards combination.
2005-07-11 17:22:20
339.   Jim Hitchcock
Damn. Abreau is good.
2005-07-11 17:22:54
340.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Yikes, next time I post a correction to a post, I need to remember to proofread.

I hope Hee-Seop make us proud....


2005-07-11 17:22:56
341.   Steve
Eckstein is hitting ninth! That's not where Scrappy belongs.
2005-07-11 17:25:02
342.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Geez-louise, Abreau just hit one 517 feet.


2005-07-11 17:28:35
343.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Roberts is batting ninth too.

They really should have held the Home Run Derby at Tiger Stadium. It would be more fun. I would have actually taped it.

2005-07-11 17:29:47
344.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. This is just amazing. Hope he wins it all.
2005-07-11 17:30:04
345.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Izzy looks more animated than I've ever seen him before.


2005-07-11 17:33:42
346.   Mark Linsey
Is there another place to track the derby online besides The applet seems to be having trouble, as I'm seeing home run totals jump around a lot (fluctuating around 18-20 so far for Abreu, with the summary box below switching between 5 and 0)
2005-07-11 17:35:22
347.   ElysianPark62
First brilliant comment of the night, courtesy of Joe Morgan: "Even his (Abreu's) line drives are hit hard."
Well, aren't line drives usually just that?

Chris Berman's voice reminds me of the squawk of a very ill chicken.

How long until Morgan's first reference to himself and his playing days? "Back when I was an All-Star..."

2005-07-11 17:35:29
348.   atg12
2005-07-11 17:36:35
349.   Jon Weisman
If I'm reading correctly, 27 HR is the individual record for an entire HR derby. And Abreu has this in the first round almost?
2005-07-11 17:37:05
350.   atg12
They're saying on mlb radio they think they juiced the ball because they were worried that not enough homeruns were going to be hit because of the dimensions of the park... let's see if someone breaks Mantle's 596 mark.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-07-11 17:37:30
351.   Mark Linsey
Has the format for the derby changed this year? (besides the method for choosing players, that is)

According to Tejada won it last year with 27 homers, and Garret Anderson the year before with 22. My tempramental window tells me that Abreu already has 24 and is not done with the first round. Did they add more outs this year, or is the "home run" total from previous year the highest score from an individual round, or is Abreu just that amazing?

2005-07-11 17:37:40
352.   Langhorne
I'd hate to be the one following Abreu.
2005-07-11 17:38:07
353.   Vishal
let's hope abreu wore himself out in the first round.
2005-07-11 17:38:34
354.   Benaiah
Yeah I was wondering what was up. Either getting to pick who pitches to you results in an extra 10 or 15 home runs or the ball is juiced. Abreu is great, but this is absurd.
2005-07-11 17:39:35
355.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
That easy swing of Abreu's gave me flashbacks of Green back in his 49 HR days.


2005-07-11 17:40:34
356.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
>>Chris Berman's voice reminds me of the squawk of a very ill chicken.<<

I burst out laughing at that one!


2005-07-11 17:41:23
357.   Vishal
i wish i could be seeing this. we don't have espn here at work. :/
2005-07-11 17:42:08
358.   Jon Weisman
I bet Abreu kept his uniform clean the whole time, too.
2005-07-11 17:42:26
359.   Jim Hitchcock
351 - He was just that amazing.

A big part of it was he showed great selection on pitches he swung at.

The gold and white C 21 ball distracted him a bit.

2005-07-11 17:43:08
360.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Bay looks so tight. Poor kid, having to follow that...


2005-07-11 17:44:25
361.   Vishal
okay, jason bay's performance will take some pressure off choi
2005-07-11 17:44:27
362.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Just heard Bay groan in frustration at a groundball.


2005-07-11 17:45:36
363.   Steve
Jason Bay helps us regress to the mean.
2005-07-11 17:46:03
364.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Bay sounds disconsolate. Ouch. Choi gave him a sympathetic pat on the back.


2005-07-11 17:46:11
365.   Jim Hitchcock
Hee Seop is one batter away.
2005-07-11 17:46:32
366.   heato
Anyone hear anything about the Jacksonville game today? The recap said that JtD left the game in the sixth with an injury, but it failed to mention any details.
2005-07-11 17:47:35
367.   Benaiah
Wow I feel for Jason Bay. He is a fantastic young talent but this is the equivalent of when that white guy from the Hornets missed his dunk 25 times before he made it. I don't know whether he is just making Abreu look better or Abreu is making him look miserable.
2005-07-11 17:47:53
368.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 366



2005-07-11 17:48:55
369.   atg12
Let's just hope Choi makes contact.
2005-07-11 17:48:58
370.   Benaiah
366 - God has finished toying with the big leagues and has moved down to the minors to wreck havok.
2005-07-11 17:50:13
371.   Fearing Blue
#366: Unfortunately, I wasn't listening to the game so I don't know. They said he was injured legging out an infield single, so perhaps hamstring.
2005-07-11 17:50:36
372.   Benaiah
I think that Choi is either going to go Bay or mini-Abreu. He is so streaky that I could see him tearing the cover off the ball or hitting a couple of infield flies and retreating to the dugout.
2005-07-11 17:50:59
373.   Langhorne
Are they allowed to pick their pitcher? I hope Choi asked for Brad Radke. Or Mulholland.
2005-07-11 17:51:05
374.   Steve
Infield singles are straight from hell.
2005-07-11 17:52:12
375.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 373

Choi brought a Dodger guy. Fearing posted a story that Choi paid for his family to come too.


2005-07-11 17:53:06
376.   Benaiah
373 - They get to bring a pitcher. Choi brought a manager I had never heard of. Apparently he flew the guys family into town too. Considering that while Choi isn't hurting he isn't making Arod money, that is a pretty nice gesture.
2005-07-11 17:53:28
377.   Mark Linsey
373 - Yes, and Choi picked the bullpen catcher or someone like that. I imagine Radke or Mulholland would have aimed for his head!
2005-07-11 17:53:54
378.   Jon Weisman
I thought Choi was after Bay. Is he after Lee?
2005-07-11 17:54:04
379.   Benaiah
376 - doh!
2005-07-11 17:54:49
380.   Steve
Berman sounds bored already. Does he know he's got another two hours of this?
2005-07-11 17:54:49
381.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Will Choicentral chart the pitches in the HR derby. =)


2005-07-11 17:55:44
382.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 380

Can you really blame him? Everything's anticlimactic after Abreu went on that tear.


2005-07-11 17:56:02
383.   Jim Hitchcock
378 -Yes, he'sbatting next.
2005-07-11 17:56:16
384.   Jim Hitchcock
378 -Yes, he's batting next.
2005-07-11 17:58:34
385.   Steve
382 -- No I don't blame him. I'm bored. I'm just watching Choi and then I'm out of there.
2005-07-11 17:59:42
386.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 385

Same here, gotta get some work done tonight. I just want to see how Choi does. Seeing Abreu's show was an unexpected benefit.


2005-07-11 18:03:41
387.   Benaiah
What is the format? Does the best 3 or 4 make the second round and then the best from that round wins or is it the two rounds added together. If is latter, than Abreu would have to pull a Bay in round 2 and someone else would have to get pretty hot.
2005-07-11 18:04:49
388.   Vishal
awwwwwwww, man. 5 outs, no homers.
2005-07-11 18:04:55
389.   Steve
Well this is a big fat anti-climax. So long and thanks for all the eel.
2005-07-11 18:05:29
390.   Vishal
gone! woooooo!
2005-07-11 18:05:45
391.   Steve
On that one, Berman thought he popped it up, and it went about 450 feet.
2005-07-11 18:05:47
392.   Jim Hitchcock
Too late to put a contract out on Jackson?
2005-07-11 18:06:28
393.   Vishal
14 rows up, how's that.
2005-07-11 18:06:33
394.   Benaiah
Could someone post updates? ESPN is running the worst update ever. 5 outs and one HR is the total right now?
2005-07-11 18:08:12
395.   Vishal
the radio guy says choi's name is actually supposed to be prounced "che". as in choi guevara. viva la revolucion!
2005-07-11 18:08:50
396.   Vishal
i think choi hit 4 or 5.
2005-07-11 18:09:34
397.   Steve
5 hr's total. They scheduled the Reggie interview over his appearance on purpose. Oh well.
2005-07-11 18:09:51
398.   DaveP
Choi hit 5, including a 474 ft to center
2005-07-11 18:09:59
399.   Johnson
Choi hit 5 total. He didn't get any until after 5 outs, but then he started to swing better. Anyhow, ESPN seems to have missed it. The order of batters went: Abreu, Bay, Carlos Lee, interview with Reggie Jackson while some guy is swinging. Pretty sad.
2005-07-11 18:09:59
400.   Benaiah
5 isn't amazing, but it is a million times better than some people (thank you Bay!)
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-07-11 18:10:15
401.   atg12
His last one was 474 feet.
2005-07-11 18:10:27
402.   hus
I heard tracey wanted to pinch hit choi in the homer run contest cos he was facing a righty
2005-07-11 18:10:38
403.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
He looked tight at first, but he heated up. Typical ESPN decided to an interview of Reggie Jackson--they didn't even show Choi in the side screen for a thirty-second stretch.


2005-07-11 18:11:05
404.   Benaiah
He hit all of them over 400 ft. So ESPN didn't show him at all? Nice job ESPN! That network makes me sick.
2005-07-11 18:11:22
405.   the OZ
He hit 5. The longest of which was 474 feet to center field. At least three of them went toward the right-field corner.

It was tough, though, because ESPN decided that an inset of Reggi Jackson was more important than showing Our Boy Choi. Or is it Say Hey Choi? Based on 395, I don't know.

Seriously, they missed a few pitches because they went to a shot of Berman, Morgan, and Jackson in the booth for about 20-30 seconds.

2005-07-11 18:14:03
406.   natepurcell
that was very unproffesional of ESPN and a direct disrespect to choi, korea, and the dodgers.
2005-07-11 18:15:31
407.   rageon
What a frickin' joke. They didn't even show one of his outs. Absolutely pathetic to do the interview then. With all the damn downtime they have, it didn't need to be done then.

And seriously ESPN, I can HEAR Reggie Jackson just fine without starting at a little picture of him in the top left of the screen. We want to watch the players, preferably in 100% of the TV screen.

2005-07-11 18:16:54
408.   rageon
Choi looked good after the first five outs. It probably won't happen, but I'd just love it for him to someone sneak into the next round (4 guys, right?) and go off for 10+.
2005-07-11 18:19:18
409.   Vishal
pudge hit 6, ah well. :/
2005-07-11 18:27:11
410.   Vishal
and teixeira only hit 2.
2005-07-11 18:27:39
411.   Johnson
Texiera only got two. Choi is still (for the moment) alive.
2005-07-11 18:28:26
412.   natepurcell
who else is left? just ortiz?
2005-07-11 18:30:35
413.   Johnson
Wow, was my spelling of "Teixeira" pathetic. I'm off to do some penance.
2005-07-11 18:31:17
414.   b1ued0dger
Ortiz and Jones are left.
2005-07-11 18:31:19
415.   Vishal
andruw jones too
2005-07-11 18:32:01
416.   the OZ
if Jones or Ortiz hits more than 5, choi is done. I think he's got a better change of starting 6 games in a week than he does of making RD2.
2005-07-11 18:34:28
417.   the OZ
Or chance.
2005-07-11 18:34:30
418.   Benaiah
412 and A Jones the MLB HR leader.
2005-07-11 18:36:53
419.   Benaiah
416,417 - That said, who thought that Texiera would hit 2? That guy is a stud. What is up with Abreu though. Choi,Bay,Pudge,Teixeira, Lee=25, Abreu=24.
2005-07-11 18:37:38
420.   Vishal
c'mon papi. choke!
2005-07-11 18:40:16
421.   Benaiah
420 - It is weird to be rooting against the USA, but then this is a contest that doesn't matter.
2005-07-11 18:40:34
422.   Vishal
okay, choi's eliminated. ah well.
2005-07-11 18:41:12
423.   Bob Timmermann
Ok, Hee-Seop, you can catch the next flight from Detroit to L.A.

Tell the limo driver that you need to go to Romulus.

Michigan is a not very interesting state, but it has cities with cool names.

2005-07-11 18:41:52
424.   Bob Timmermann
Everyone knows that the most heated international competition going on now is the CONCACAF Gold Cup!
2005-07-11 18:42:23
425.   Benaiah
Oh well, he came in 6th at least, maybe fifth if Jones chokes.
2005-07-11 18:43:57
426.   Bob Timmermann
Anybody here besides me who's ever been to either Comerica Park or Tiger Stadium?
2005-07-11 18:46:47
427.   Langhorne
I wish they had a Scrapiness Derby.
2005-07-11 18:52:42
428.   Langhorne
I went to a game at Tiger Stadium about thirty years ago.
2005-07-11 18:56:46
429.   Bob Timmermann
I spent one inning of my one game at Tiger Stadium in the second deck behind home plate. It was terrifying. It was amazing how close to home you were and how fast the foul balls came back up.

I was watching the Angels and the Tigers and Percival was pitching. Nothing like watching a guy throw 95 mph and have guys foul them back in a hurry.

Tiger Stadium was almost the antithesis of Dodger Stadium.

2005-07-11 18:59:11
430.   Vishal
jones and choi tied. stupid pudge rodriguez, foiling our hero. he shouldn't have even been there.
2005-07-11 19:02:11
431.   Benaiah
I can't believe Pudge made round 2. Hee-Seop, you could have made it with just a little production in the first 5 outs.
2005-07-11 19:21:06
432.   Improbable88
HEY, A LITTLE HELP HERE. A little dispute with a friend over payroll. What did the payroll peak at during the FOX years? Wasn't it something ridiculous for awhile?
2005-07-11 19:27:16
433.   jpeace
Well, at least it looked like Choi was having a good time hanging around All-Stars rather than the Las Vegas 51's.

Choi should have been taken a lot of pitches the way Abreu and Ortiz did. Maybe he was a little nervous.

The radio announcers keep mentioning how Carlos Lee has been practicing with his personal pitcher all of last week. Choi was added to the home run derby 3 days ago.

Pudge had home field advantage.

Ok, that's it for my Choi defense of the day.

2005-07-11 19:41:37
434.   Steve
Over at Sports Illustrated:

"I caught some of the original Bad News Bears over the weekend and was amazed at the decisions made by manager Morris Buttermaker, even beyond his alarming drinking and occasional manhandling of players. Remember when Buttermaker asked Rudi to lean into a pitch? His reasoning was that with a red-hot Engelberg coming up, the Bears needed baserunners. Fair enough. But at that point in the season, why was Engelberg batting so low in the order given that he was the team's second-best hitter after the great Kelly Leak? Here's betting that Buttermaker isn't a big Moneyball guy."

But he could manage the Reds.

2005-07-11 19:42:24
435.   Jon Weisman
I had some frequent flyer miles expiring years ago and used them at the last minute to make a trip to Detroit just to see Tiger Stadium before it disappeared from MLB. It was well worth the trip - the feeling of sitting so close to the action and the experience of spending an inning directly behind a post, like in a Warner Bros. cartoon. Bobby Higginson was a rising star and huge fan favorite back then. The PA announcer spent about 5-10 seconds drawing out his name.

That night, I stayed up to watch one of those 20-overtime Stanley Cup championship games on ESPN.

On my way home the next day, I realized that my layover in Denver almost perfectly coincided with a rare Rockies midweek day game. I changed the second half of my flight and dashed out to Coors Field, where I saw a combined shutout, led by Marvin Freeman, I believe.

Bob Timmermann, for the big jackpot ... what date did Jon Weisman see a game at Tiger Stadium???

2005-07-11 19:59:47
436.   Fearing Blue
#435: I think I may have found it, but I'll let Bob guess before I chime in. It's not that often that Marvin Freeman allowed 0 runs in a Coors Field start.
2005-07-11 20:01:34
437.   RMAPasad
Some quick stat lines from the Houston series: We faced 3 RHed starters. Among available guys to start, their seasonal OPS' v. RHers, # AB's in Houston series, and # LOB in Houston series.

1- J Kent .918 - 11 ab- 3 LOB
2- HS Choi .787 - 9 ab 2 LOB
3- A Perez .771 - 4 ab 0 LOB

7 -Repko .642 - 11 ab 6 LOB
8- Phillips .638 - 12 ab 13 LOB
9-Grabowski .554 - 11 ab 2 LOB

Does it make sense that the three best available hitters v. RHers got 24 AB's in the Houston and three worst available hitters got 34 AB's ? Does it make sense that a guy with a .638 OPS v. RHers is hitting cleanup (and 5th) ? 13 LOB says no.

2005-07-11 20:01:44
438.   Fearing Blue
#436: Maybe I can guess without giving anything away. Did the Tigers win in a slugfest?
2005-07-11 20:03:16
439.   franklin
#432... $109M in 2001, source USA Today Baseball Salary db
2005-07-11 20:06:40
440.   Fearing Blue
#437: If we keep worrying about what "makes sense" with Jim Tracy, our collective heads may explode. Jim Tracy is an old-school manager who likes to go by his gut feel. As Jon pointed out earlier, Tracy thinks of Choi as a backup and my guess is that due to defensive concerns, Perez is going to be joining Choi on the bench a lot. It unfortunately is what it is.
2005-07-11 20:10:26
441.   Fearing Blue
#439: Interesting.. here are the yearly numbers from USA Today:

1998: $48.0 million
1999: $70.9 million
2000: $90.4 million
2001: $109.1 million
2002: $94.9 million
2003: $105.9 million
2004: $92.9 million
2005: $83.04 million

2005-07-11 20:11:57
442.   Jon Weisman
#438 - All I remember is the stadium, the post, the small crowd, Higginson and the hot dog I ate at my seat. Higginson had a good night.
2005-07-11 20:17:00
443.   franklin
#442: are you describing a baseball game or your job in college as a go-go dancer?
2005-07-11 20:30:19
444.   dzzrtRatt
I got to peer at Bill Freehan, Norm Cash, Mickey Lolich, Willy Horton and Al Kaline from behind a post at Yankee Stadium in 1965. On "Mickey Mantle Day," no less.
2005-07-11 20:30:27
445.   Fearing Blue
Nate, if you're reading this, have you heard anything about Mark Alexander? He was a 20th round draft pick last year out of the University of Missouri. At 24 years old, he's very old for Vero Beach, but it's also only his second season in professional baseball. His numbers so far are ridiculous:

Alexander (High-A): 1.71 ERA with 64 Ks, 18 BBs, and 2 HRs in 42 IP

That's a 13.7 K/9, 3.56 K/BB, and 0.43 HR/9!

I only noticed him because he struck out 4 in 1.2 IP tonight to drop his ERA to 1.71. I don't think he'd break our top 25 until he pitches against stronger competition, but those numbers are staggering.

2005-07-11 20:36:10
446.   natepurcell
yea those are good numbers but i cant take it too seriously since he is so old for the FSL. he needs to be moved up pronto.
2005-07-11 20:40:50
447.   the OZ
At the end of Jayson Stark's midseason column, there's this nugget told by Mrs. LaRoche, Adam and Andy's mom:

"[Adam] put a helmet on his little brother Andy, told him to run around the backyard and shot BBs at him. I just found out about this when I went to the wedding of one of Adam's friends."

Maybe he's such a good hitter because he had to learn to dodge BBs as a kid? Comparitively, spotting and reacting to a fastball is easy.

2005-07-11 20:54:39
448.   Fearing Blue
#445: And on top of that, what would you do with him now? Would it be too much of a leap to promote Alexander to AAA after the All-Star break? Carlos Alvarez was similarly dominating Low-A earlier in the year and he was promoted directly to AA. On top of that, Alexander is more polished since he had 4 years of college pitching experience. Our pitching depth is ridiculous.
2005-07-11 20:59:32
449.   Bob Timmermann
May 28, 1999 for Jon's trip to the corner of Michigan and Trumbull?

Mine was May 5, 1999.

Our Jeffie lost to Steve Sparks of the Angels.

2005-07-11 21:02:54
450.   natepurcell
i could see them promoting alexander to vegas.

actually, yea they should do that. he is already 24 years old, why not right?

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-07-11 21:14:31
451.   Jon Weisman
443 - LOL

449 - That is incorrect.

2005-07-11 21:44:17
452.   Fearing Blue
#451: The only time I found that Marvin Freeman participated in a shutout at Coors Field was June 12th, 1996. It was a day game. The night before Bobby Higginson went 3 for 3 with a double, a homerun and 3 RBI en route to a 12 - 9 Detroit loss to Baltimore. I misread it as a win earlier.

But, 1996 seems early considering Tiger's Stadium's last year was 1999.

2005-07-11 22:15:17
453.   natepurcell
fearing blue:

a prospect thats a sleeper and could rise quickly is david sutherland, 20 yr old 1b for ogden. he was a big international signee from australia in 2002.

his plate discipline is excellent and his batting average is excellent. but he has yet shown power. But he is 6'6 and growing into his frame so i am not worried about the power because i think it will come.

he could see a promotion to columbus along with pedroza soon.

2005-07-11 22:30:39
454.   Jon Weisman
452 - correct. The point wasn't to see Tiger Stadium the final year, just make sure I saw it while I still had the chance.
2005-07-11 22:50:00
455.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, missed the part about the Rockies game.
2005-07-12 03:42:02
456.   Fearing Blue
#453: I'm very skeptical about Sutherland. I have been impressed with his stats a couple times before digging further. I agree with you that he has a good knowledge of the strike zone, with 14 BBs and 7 Ks in 76 ABs. But, his batting line is really odd with a .434/.522/.487 split. That comes out to a .471 BABIP. Even dropping that down to a still high .368 BABIP (26 hits) really hurts his numbers, to the tune of a .342/.444/.395 line. Since he had a BABIP of .310 BABIP last year in the Rookie league, I'm not convinced there's even that much skill involved. Also, to make matters worse, this is his third time repeating the Rookie league. As far as power is concerned, in 420 Rookie league ABs, Sutherland has a total of 13 extra-base hits (8 doubles, 5 triples and 1 homerun) for an ISO of .045 (.340 - .295). As a frame of reference, Cesar Izturis had a minor league ISO of .075 (.338 - .263). Sutherland does have a large frame at 6'6", but lists him at 175 lbs. Yikes! I didn't even think that combination was possible. If he can add 75 lbs. of muscle to his frame while keeping everything else constant, he should be really good, but I would think he's running short on time. Somebody needs to buy that man some food.
2005-07-12 07:09:41
457.   Steve
I saw Sutherland a couple of weeks ago. The word that came to mind was "gawky." I'll let you guys worry about the stat part. We're not selling jeans here.
2005-07-12 08:34:05
458.   fanerman
So what exactly happened to our Choi almighty? I was getting home from work and had to make some detours. They didn't show a single home run? A single out?
2005-07-12 08:44:22
459.   CanuckDodger
Gawky? Close, Steve. Sutherland's nick-name is "Goofy." Has been for years. Apparently, he LIKES being called that.

Sure, power is often the last tool to develop, especially for tall, lanky types. But we're not talking about a James Loney needing to turn some doubles or warning track fly-outs into over-the-fence bombs. Sutherland does not even have gap power at age 20. He has 33 hits this year in a very hitter-friendly league where every park is a launching pad and only 2 of those 33 hits have been for extra bases. That is just amazing. How many guys could hit for that little power if they tried? And Sutherland is a first baseman, not a shortstop.

2005-07-12 09:37:37
460.   ElysianPark62
That was a blatant insult to the Dodgers and Choi. Why did we need to hear and see Reggie Jackson at that point, with Morgan praising him? It wasn't even tongue in cheek.

Morgan: "One shot (of Choi's) was a monster shot. That's more like Reggie Jackson."

Jackson: "Thanks for the props, Joe." (in all seriousness)

Hey, guess what, Jackson? Your day in the sun has long passed. Don't you have some expensive cars to go and buy or something?

Berman said, "We don't mean to take away from Choi and South Korea..." (yes, you do)
"...but back to your days with the Yankees, Reggie..."

Berman squawked about all of the others' shots except Choi's. I expected them to make some cracks about the Dodgers but I didn't anticipate them virtually disregarding Choi's appearance. Was it also because he wasn't an All-Star?

When Choi hit those three HR's against Minnesota, it took ESPN a full 31 minutes into the show to air clips on Baseball Tonight. If that had been Jeter or Ortiz, he would've been in the opening sequence.

2005-07-12 09:51:25
461.   fanerman
Well that's ESPN for you... Sooner or later we'll shove it in their face... right now we just need to be patient.
2005-07-12 10:37:46
462.   Jim Hitchcock
Wasn't just the boradcast, Elysian...On Espn News they showed Bay hitting, both of Teixeira's HR's...and not so much as a swing of the bat for HSC.
2005-07-12 11:02:42
463.   Jim Hitchcock
Whoops, I could point out that `boradcast' was a typo...or was it?
2005-07-12 11:51:59
464.   Steve
A "Borascast" is something I would never want to see.

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