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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

I Always Thought It Would Be Clemens, Uh...
2005-07-08 14:51
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

Update: Kelly Wunsch remains on the roster for this game goes on the disabled list, and Ricky Ledee off it. Jeff Kent is in the lineup, and Jason Phillips gets a shot as cleanup hitter behind him (his career 2 for 3 numbers against Rocket Roger no doubt swaying Jim Tracy), with Hee Seop Choi playing first and batting sixth.

* * *

Roger Clemens has defeated 28 major league teams in his career. Name the only one besides the Dodgers that has escaped him.

There's an interesting column on Roger Clemens by Bob Harkins at ...

... Poor Roger can't win a game. Poor Roger gets less support than Alex Rodriguez at a Red Sox family picnic. Poor Roger is brilliant, but those miserable Houston Astros have turned into a lost cause.

And it's true that Poor Roger has been incredible. An ERA below 1.50 is amazing for a pitcher of any age, let alone a fireballing workhorse who will turns 43 on Aug. 4. You watch the back-slide of other aging pitchers such as Randy Johnson, and it makes you marvel even more.

But there is no reason to pity Clemens. Pity instead the Astros fans, who have been suffering through a three-month-long hangover after the intoxicating buzz of a playoff run that came within a whisker of the World Series.

Feel sorry for the faithful who watched Clemens falter in Game 7 against the Cardinals, then waited on the edges of their seats while their hero spent the bulk of the offseason working on his golf handicap and trying to decide if he would return in 2005. ...

* * *

Folks, I can't attend myself, but as you may have seen in the comments, readers Suffering Bruin and Icaros are putting together a Dodger Thoughts get-together, and I hope many of you will take the opportunity to meet in person.

  • Vote on which of the four games from July 25-28 you would prefer to attend.

  • Vote via e-mail at

  • Please enter "Dodgers vs. Reds vote" in the subject field.

  • Voting ends at midnight.

  • Saturday morning, all who responded will get a mass e-mail announcing the winning date with further details.

    For the full message, check below in the comments, as I'm sure Suffering Bruin will re-post it one more time.

    * * *

    Please feel encouraged to continue leaving your comments on Vin Scully in the previous post. The father-in-law of one of our commenters, Pepperdine professor Mike Gose, has an appreciation of Scully available here that is simultaneously intellectual and heartfelt. ...

    ... Scully's broadcasting is an art in the sense that he, like painters, composers, actresses, and dancers, makes judgments based on qualities that unfold during the course of action. Qualitative forms of intelligence are used to select, control, and organize the coverage of a game including tempo, tone, pace, and forward movement. Scully reads the emerging qualities of a game and responds with qualities appropriate to that game whether the drama of a close world series, or the leisure of a Saturday afternoon game after the pennant races have been decided. ...

  • Comments (338)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-07-08 15:32:17
    1.   Bob Timmermann
    Clemens is 0-0 against the Astros.
    2005-07-08 15:42:22
    2.   Jon Weisman
    If that's true, then the Houston press notes are mistaken, because they have a different answer.
    2005-07-08 15:47:53
    3.   Vishal
    i haven't seen the houston press notes, but... atlanta?
    2005-07-08 15:48:25
    4.   Sam DC
    Could the Press Notes only be referring to teams he's pitched against but not defeated, as opposed to never faced?

    Jon -- if I worked up the gumption/time to do it, would it be OK to print out and send that last thread to Vin Scully? (Or would you like to do it?) There's some pretty touching stuff in there. Fine of course if you prefer not.

    2005-07-08 15:50:40
    5.   Bob Timmermann
    Random Dodger game callback

    July 8, 1932

    Friday afternoon was Ladies Day in Cincinnati, but only 8,000 fans came out to watch Brooklyn demolish the Reds 15-5 with seven runs in the first inning. The Dodgers improved to 37-39 and moved percentage points ahead of the Cardinals in the "race" for fifth place. Brooklyn was 6 ½ games behind first place Pittsburgh.

    The Dodgers sent 11 men to the plate in the first inning and knocked out Reds starter Silas Johnson after he retired only one of the first eight batters. Two errors by the Reds led to the avalanche of runs.

    Brooklyn starter Watty Clark had an 8-0 lead in the second and almost frittered it all away, giving up five runs in the second, but would give up only four hits the rest of the game and went the distance. Clark would go 20-12 with a 3.49 ERA in 1932, the best season of his career.

    The game featured several players who made it to the Hall of Fame. Brooklyn started future Hall of Fame manager Al Lopez at catcher. The Reds started future Hall of Famer Ernie Lombardi at catcher. Lombardi had broken in with Brooklyn in 1931 but was traded to the Reds prior to the 1932 season along with Babe Herman for second baseman Tony Cuccinello and third baseman Joe Stripp. The Reds also started future Hall of Fame (and Dodger) manager Leo Durocher at shortstop. And two guys whom you would be surprised to find in Cooperstown also played for the Reds on this day in 1932 in Chick Hafey and Eppa Rixey

    Another Hall of Famer, Max Carey, had taken over as manager of the Dodgers. He took over for Wilbert Robinson, who had finally gotten too old to lead the team. Robinson would pass away in 1934. Carey piloted the Dodgers to a surprising 81-73 finish, good enough for third place, nine games behind Chicago.

    The Dodgers had some impressive hitters in 1932. Lefty O'Doul batted .368, which led the league, and had 21 home runs. His OBP of .423 was one point less than New York's Mel Ott. Hack Wilson hit 23 home runs and drove in 123. The Dodgers big hole was at first base where George Kelly and Bud Clancy split time and batted in the .240 range.

    1932 marked the end of the first part of the Dodgers career of Dazzy Vance. The 41-year old went 12-11 with a 4.20 ERA. He was traded to St. Louis in the off-season, but would keep pitching and return again to Brooklyn for one final season at age 44 in 1935.

    Vance was a relative youngster next to reliever Jack Quinn, pitching in his 22nd big league season. The 49-year old Quinn pitched in 42 games, all in relief. He went 3-7 with a 3.30 ERA. Quinn would pitch in 14 games for the Reds in 1933 before retiring.

    Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

    2005-07-08 15:52:17
    6.   Sam DC
    By the way, impressive title for this Post.
    2005-07-08 15:54:01
    7.   Marty
    It's the smart move. Tessio was always smarter...
    2005-07-08 15:55:12
    8.   natepurcell
    choi needs to hit some homeruns this series to warm up for the homerun derby.
    2005-07-08 15:56:52
    9.   Bob Timmermann
    Abe Vigoda is still alive.
    2005-07-08 15:58:59
    10.   Johnson
    Well, ESPN splits say the only teams Clemens has not faced over the last three years are Houston and the Yankees. I'm confident that he's beaten the Yankees at some point. The only teams he has faced that he doesn't have a win against in the last three years are LA, the Braves and the Nationals/Expos. Since the Braves are already taken, I'll say the Nats.
    2005-07-08 16:01:59
    11.   Jon Weisman
    Turns out my trivia question was flawed. The answer is Houston and Atlanta for the regular season, just Houston if you include the postseason.

    4 - Sam, I think it would be best if you didn't print and send to Vin for now. For one, Eric needs the material for his article. And I have some other ideas.

    2005-07-08 16:02:30
    12.   natepurcell

    jackson is pitching for the suns.

    2005-07-08 16:04:15
    13.   natepurcell
    and good news, joe block the suns announcer said kuo is okay and will be available to pitch today.
    2005-07-08 16:06:22
    14.   Johnson
    #13 nate
    Wow, great news on Kuo. Last I heard, we were assuming the absolute worst, right? Or had there been an update?
    2005-07-08 16:06:36
    15.   Sam DC
    11 yup.
    2005-07-08 16:09:56
    16.   Vishal
    wonderful news about kuo!

    wait, so has clemens beat the dodgers in the postseason? when was that?

    ps. why can't jon go on any of the four days? tsk, tsk.

    2005-07-08 16:10:04
    17.   Steve
    When we have Choi, Drew, and Dunn next year, how are we going to stagger the lefties, and not go all San Diego?
    2005-07-08 16:12:11
    18.   Dodgerkid
    Time to lift Kuo to the majors, and blow out his arm in the small hope that he might bolster the bullpen and get us the division.
    2005-07-08 16:12:40
    19.   Jon Weisman
    16 - the question was "besides the Dodgers"
    2005-07-08 16:13:28
    20.   fanerman91
    3 - Drew
    4 - Kent
    5 - Dunn
    6 - JtD (at SS of course)
    7 - Choi
    2005-07-08 16:15:08
    21.   fanerman91
    Re: 20

    Disclaimer: I made that line-up up in 2 seconds so there are may be many things about it that are flawed. That and it may be a bit inconceivable.

    2005-07-08 16:15:47
    22.   natepurcell
    jackson just owned the best prospect in the minors, delmon young.

    2 nasty sliders and a change in the dirt did the trick.

    2005-07-08 16:20:11
    23.   Jon Weisman
    Update above. Wunsch has not been DLed yet. Kent and Choi are playing. And your cleanup hitter is ... Jason Phillips.
    2005-07-08 16:23:08
    24.   Johnson
    O. Robles ss
    J. Repko cf
    J. Kent 2b
    J. Phillips c
    J. Werth rf
    H. Choi 1b
    J. Grabowski lf
    M. Edwards 3b
    D.J. Houlton p

    W. Taveras cf
    C. Biggio 2b
    L. Berkman 1b
    M. Ensberg 3b
    J. Lane rf
    A. Everett ss
    C. Burke lf
    B. Ausmus c
    R. Clemens p

    Kent's return saves us the indignity of posting a starting lineup making less than $3 million against Clemens. ;)

    2005-07-08 16:23:14
    25.   molokai
    Great news on Kuo, been searching all week for some information. Jackson has already started to turn it around. Let us see how he does against the stacked Tampa Bay AA team. Much like us they could give the Major League team a run for their money.
    2005-07-08 16:24:28
    26.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    What a relief about Kuo. Some surprising good news for once.


    2005-07-08 16:25:13
    27.   Vic
    23 -- I can't wait to hear Tracy's explanation for putting a hitter with a .685 OPS in the cleanup spot. I'd be willing to bet a significant sum of money that he attempts to use Phillips' massive .667 AVG against Clemens ( 3 at-bats) as a justification.
    2005-07-08 16:26:35
    28.   Dodgerkid
    Is it just me or does it seem as if Vegas is not a good place to put our pitchers? It seems as if we should just take them from AA and see what happens. High altitude just seems to ruin pitchers. This news on Jackson is very heartening, if he keeps it up he should definitely be on our 25 man really soon.
    2005-07-08 16:28:20
    29.   Bob Timmermann
    Frank Robinson had a guy with an OPS of 595 and zero home runs batting cleanup yesterday (Carlos Baerga).

    But today he's batting 5th.

    2005-07-08 16:28:22
    30.   fanerman91
    I asked this question once but it was off topic and nobody replied (or I completely forgot or did not notice, in which case I apologize)...

    What would it take to get the AAA team out of Vegas and into a park similar to Dodger Stadium? It seems like we'd be able to better predict their performance at the major league level if they've had some time playing in a similar park.

    2005-07-08 16:28:25
    31.   natepurcell
    after 2IP 1H 0ER 0BB 3K
    2005-07-08 16:28:33
    32.   Jon Weisman
    27 - I was thinking the same thing ... see up top.

    It still bugs me more to see righty batters and lefty batters bunched instead of mixed:

    2005-07-08 16:29:55
    33.   Jon Weisman
    28 - "Is it just me or does it seem as if Vegas is not a good place to put our pitchers?"

    You and about a hundred thousand other Dodger fans.

    2005-07-08 16:33:00
    34.   Marty
    Continuing from the last thread, Michelle Wie woke up and realized where she was. Double-bogey, bogey on 15 and 16 caused her to miss the cut.
    2005-07-08 16:36:53
    35.   Fearing Blue
    #33: Derek Thompson and Eric Stults seem to be doing alright in Vegas. Even Steve Schmoll is turning it around. My guess is that Hanrahan and Jackson were just not ready. There may actually be some advantage to have the odds stacked against the pitchers, in that the challenge level is closer to the majors.
    2005-07-08 16:37:24
    36.   the OZ
    34 - that's too bad. Unless those two holes are particularly tough, sounds like a case of nerves.

    I really do think she's good enough to compete with the men. She beat a lot of them this week.

    2005-07-08 16:37:55
    37.   Steve
    Grabowski is more like an N than a L or an R.

    Remind me not to defend Jason Phillips anymore.

    2005-07-08 16:38:26
    38.   Fearing Blue
    It's great to see Hee Seop Choi getting some love for the Home Run Derby. I hope he can make South Korea proud.
    2005-07-08 16:39:47
    39.   Fearing Blue
    #13: That's awesome news about Kuo. Did Block give any indication of what the problem was? The Suns bullpen of Carlos Alvarez, Luis Gonzalez, Hong-chih Kuo, and Jonathan Broxton is, amazingly, more stacked than their rotation.
    2005-07-08 16:41:17
    40.   Marty
    36. If she doesn't get hurt, she'll be a regular on the men's tour by the time she's 21.
    2005-07-08 16:42:01
    41.   natepurcell
    3IP 2H 0ER 0BB 3K
    2005-07-08 16:43:10
    42.   natepurcell
    #13: That's awesome news about Kuo. Did Block give any indication of what the problem was? The Suns bullpen of Carlos Alvarez, Luis Gonzalez, Hong-chih Kuo, and Jonathan Broxton is, amazingly, more stacked than their rotation.

    he just said kuo is okay and would be available today to pitch. if kuo comes in, im sure joe will talk about it some more.

    are you watching the game online fearing blue? jackson looks good.

    2005-07-08 16:45:08
    43.   the OZ
    Among the players Michelle Wie will probably beat in the standings:

    British Open Champ David Duval, Masters champion Larry Mize, a guy names Charlie Wi, and Stanford's own Joel Kribel. Also, a guy named Willie Wood.

    2005-07-08 16:49:51
    44.   LAT
    34. Too bad--it would have been fun to see her make it. I'm sure her crazy father will find someone to blame. He is supposed to be a real peice of work. I guess these dads are the ones that get their kids to this point but someone else should take over from here. (read Willimas sisters' dad.)
    2005-07-08 16:51:10
    45.   natepurcell
    jackson VS delmon young round II

    jackson wins again! strikes out young on a nasty 3-2 slider!!

    2005-07-08 16:51:13
    46.   Marty
    44. At least he's not caddying for her anymore. That was a disaster.
    2005-07-08 16:51:44
    47.   Bob Timmermann
    Hee-Seop Choi never gets to face a lefty! That would be pefect for him, it would make him a big star, and I'm gonna run him out of the business – and let me tell you why: Hee-Seop Choi ruined one of Jim Tracy's most valuable assets. For five years, I had him under training – catching pitchers, playing first base, playing left field. I spent hundreds of hours on him. I was going to make him a big star. And let me be frank, just to show you that I'm not a hard-hearted man, and that it's not all dollars and cents: He was guy with heart. He had soul. He was gutty. And he was the greatest catcher, I've ever had, and I've had 'em all over the world. And then Hee-Seop Choi comes along with his kimchi voice and Oriental power, and he runs him off. He threw it all away to make look ridiculous! And a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous!
    2005-07-08 16:54:37
    48.   Jim Tracy
    Bob, that is the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.
    2005-07-08 16:54:49
    49.   natepurcell
    4IP 2H 0ER 1BB 4K
    2005-07-08 16:55:27
    50.   ddger
    47. Bob, that's a new one. I didn't think about that one but it makes lot of sense. LoDuca was one of Tracy's favorites.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-07-08 16:55:54
    51.   Bob Timmermann
    Thanks Jim.
    2005-07-08 16:55:55
    52.   Vic
    48 -- I concur.
    2005-07-08 16:56:03
    53.   GoBears
    Feelin' OK, Bob? A little jisa boke there?
    2005-07-08 16:56:53
    54.   ddger
    Any good explanation for Erickson, Bob?
    2005-07-08 16:57:51
    55.   Vishal
    woo! choi IS in the home run derby. i hope he wins it so tracy will quit benching him.
    2005-07-08 16:58:59
    56.   GoBears
    55: Yeah, like Tracy would care. After all, every pitch will be from the same arm angle!
    2005-07-08 16:59:51
    57.   ddger
    55. If Choi wins it, Tracy will only play against pitchers who have same arm angle as the guy who is pitching for home run derby.
    2005-07-08 16:59:51
    58.   fanerman91
    If Izzy can bat lead-off while going 1 for 60 because he's an all-star, then Choi has to play and bat 8th or something for winning a home run derby, right? Assuming the reason Tracy kept Izzy at lead-off was because of the all-star nonsense.
    2005-07-08 17:00:23
    59.   Marty
    I think of Lo Duca in the car with Clemenza.

    "Paulie? Oh, you won't see him around no more."

    2005-07-08 17:02:38
    60.   Suffering Bruin
    At work, dammit all, so I'm not watching the game but I did want to post this one last time...

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    From July 25 to July 28, Year of our Choi 2005, the Dodgers will be
    playing host to the Cincinnatti Reds. I propose that we make one of those
    nights a "Dodger Thoughts Adam Dunn Scouting Excursion." Actually, Icaros
    proposed this but I'm stealing his idea.

    Here's how this is going to work.

    1) Starting today, we're going to have a vote on which of the four games
    to attend. You can vote via-email at Please enter
    "Dodgers vs. Reds vote" in the subject field and in the message, enter
    the game you think we should all attend. Jon Weisman's vote, should he
    choose to attend, will carry a lot of weight. Voting ends midnight Friday

    2) Saturday morning, all who responded will get a mass e-mail from me
    announcing the winning date with instructions on what you should do next.
    Those instructions will read like this:

    "Hi. It's me, Suffering Bruin, and by vote we've decided to make the
    Dodger Thoughts Adam Dunn Scouting Excursion for (winning date). If
    you want to attend this game, you must respond to this e-mail by 12pm
    Sunday. That's tomorrow so don't delay! I plan on purchasing Reserved
    Level seats for the game on Sunday afternoon; you can reimburse me at the
    gate. You'll be responsible for getting to the game though I'll be
    borrowing a mini-van and I'm happy to arrange a carpool. Thanks for your
    support of the Dodger Thoughts Adam Dunn Scouting Excursion."

    3) Those who decide to attend will get a confirmation e-mail from yours
    truly that I have purchased a Reserved Level seat for the game.

    Icaros and I will most certainly be attending but more are invited. Let
    me know folks. Our team needs not just any Dodger fan but the people who
    spend way, way, WAY too much time thinking about them. As if we'd have it
    any other way, right?

    I'll look forward to your e-mails.


    Suffering Bruin

    2005-07-08 17:06:23
    61.   Jon Weisman
    Bruin, did you see the current top story on the site?
    2005-07-08 17:06:37
    62.   natepurcell
    5IP 2H 0ER 1BB 6K

    king edwin is ready to retake his crown.

    2005-07-08 17:08:12
    63.   LAT
    nate, you did knock on wood when you wrote that right?
    2005-07-08 17:09:11
    64.   Linkmeister
    Wie's double bogie was a huge drive which ended up in a bunker with an uphill lie. She ended up with a par putt past the hole and missed on the way back.

    As you might expect, she's Huge News out here. If it hadn't been for the London bombings yesterday I'm convinced our 5:00 news would have led with her first round.

    2005-07-08 17:09:34
    65.   Fearing Blue
    Over the past couple days, I've been analyzing our team to try to determine when we should expect a positive impact from our farm system. I looked at all major league players and prospects down to the AA level. The goal was to compare the trajectory of our proven major leaguers with our prospects. A player was considered to be good if he had performed above average for his position for an extended period of time in the majors (300 PAs for position players, 85 IP for starters, or 40 innings pitched for relievers). Of the major league players who had reached the good level, here is the summary (all ages and times are medians):

    Good players drafted or signed at less than 20 years old achieved an above average performance level at 24.4 years old, requiring 6.8 years of development after the draft. The group reached AA at 20.9 years, requiring an additional 3.8 years of development. The group reached AAA at 22.5 years old, requiring an additional 2.0 years of development. The group reached the majors at 23.2, requiring an additional 1.6 years of development.

    Good players drafted or signed at 20 years or older old achieved an above average performance level at 25.6 years old, requiring 4.8 years of development after the draft. The group reached AA at 22.8 years old, requiring an additional 3.0 years of development. The group reached AAA at 24.8 years old, requiring an additional 2.4 years of development. The group reached the majors at 23.8 years old, requiring an additional 1.6 years of development.

    The numbers for each minor league level do not consistently increase as players occassionally skipped a level, especially for the 20 and over group.

    Here is the raw data for the good players on our team:

    Scott Erickson (37.4): Drafted at 21.3; Majors at 22.3; Good at 22.3; 1 year from draft to good.
    Jeff Weaver (28.9): Drafted at 21.8; Majors at 22.7; Good at 22.7; 0.9 years from draft to good.
    Wilson Alvarez (35.3): Drafted at 16.2; Majors at 21.4; Good at 23; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Odalis Perez (28.1): Drafted at 17; Majors at 21.2; Good at 23.8; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Brad Penny (27.1): Drafted at 18; Majors at 23; Good at 23.9; 5.8 years from draft to good.
    Yhency Brazoban (25.1): Drafted at 17; Majors at 24.1; Good at 24.1; 7.2 years from draft to good.
    Cesar Izturis (25.4): Drafted at 16.3; Majors at 21.5; Good at 24.1; 7.8 years from draft to good.
    J.D. Drew (29.6): Drafted at 22.5; Majors at 22.8; Good at 24.4; 1.8 years from draft to good.
    Duaner Sanchez (25.7): Drafted at 16.5; Majors at 22.8; Good at 24.4; 7.8 years from draft to good.
    Jose Valentin (35.7): Drafted at 16.6; Majors at 23.8; Good at 24.5; 7.8 years from draft to good.
    Derek Lowe (32.1): Drafted at 18; Majors at 24; Good at 24.8; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Jayson Werth (26.1): Drafted at 18; Majors at 23.3; Good at 24.9; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Darren Dreifort (33.2): Drafted at 21.1; Majors at 21.9; Good at 24.9; 3.8 years from draft to good.
    Milton Bradley (27.2): Drafted at 18.1; Majors at 22.3; Good at 25; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Hee Seop Choi (26.3): Drafted at 20.2; Majors at 23.5; Good at 25; 4.8 years from draft to good.
    Antonio Perez (25.5): Drafted at 18.3; Majors at 23.5; Good at 25.2; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Jeff Kent (37.3): Drafted at 21.2; Majors at 24.1; Good at 26.1; 4.8 years from draft to good.
    Eric Gagne (29.5): Drafted at 19.4; Majors at 23.6; Good at 26.2; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Jason Phillips (28.8): Drafted at 20.7; Majors at 24.9; Good at 26.6; 5.9 years from draft to good.
    Kelly Wunsch (33): Drafted at 20.9; Majors at 27.7; Good at 27.7; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Elmer Dessens (34.5): Drafted at 22.4; Majors at 25.6; Good at 29.2; 6.8 years from draft to good.
    Giovanni Carrara (37.3): Drafted at 22.2; Majors at 27.2; Good at 33.1; 10.8 years from draft to good.

    Some of these players are not good anymore, but they all were at some point.

    Hey Jon, would you like me to send you the spreadsheet?

    I'll follow up on our prospects in a subsequent post.

    2005-07-08 17:11:50
    66.   Linkmeister
    44, "I'm sure her crazy father will find someone to blame. He is supposed to be a real peice of work."

    I don't know where you got that idea. He's a UH professor and not a "tennis" dad at all, from what I can tell. And as I said, we know far more about her and her family than I sometimes think we need to.

    2005-07-08 17:12:21
    67.   Bob Timmermann
    I used Lo Duca solely because he was easier to work in to Jack Woltz's tirade than any other player.
    2005-07-08 17:13:06
    68.   Fearing Blue
    #42: Unfortunately, I'm not. Watching the Dodgers game, reading Dodger Thoughts, and working on my prospect analysis is the most multi-tasking I can handle.

    Astros announcers reported that Wunsch will need surgery. Can anyone else confirm?

    2005-07-08 17:14:40
    69.   Fearing Blue
    #67: The fact that Tracy changed his uniform number in homage to LoDuca makes it a pretty good selection.
    2005-07-08 17:18:16
    70.   DeucesAreWild
    The Over/Under for D.J. through 3 innings is 4 runs.
    2005-07-08 17:18:24
    71.   Bob Timmermann
    Gameday says the temperature is 0 degrees and the roof is closed.

    So if the temperature is 0 are the pitchers being allowed to blow on their hands?

    2005-07-08 17:18:53
    72.   LAT
    66. ESPN did a peice on her and portrayed him as out of control. Granted can't beieve everything you see on ESPN but there was a clip of him going off about something or other. Maybe he was just trying to protect his 15 yr old daughter (can't blame him for that.) BTW, she was not portrayed too kindly either. But I remeber thinking they were expecting alot out of a teenage girl under pressur-packed circumstances.
    2005-07-08 17:19:27
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    Of course Gameday had Tavares first lining out to Repko. Then he singled to center. Then he singled to center, but took a called strike on the next pitch.
    2005-07-08 17:20:30
    74.   Jon Weisman
    71 - It's not 0 degrees, but 0* ... perhaps this is absolute zero?

    65 - Won't have time to deal with the spreadsheet. But I'm interested in how common the phenomenon that no one is good before 22 is with other teams.

    2005-07-08 17:21:04
    75.   Jon Weisman
    It would appear that Houlton has a three-hitter going now though, right?
    2005-07-08 17:21:08
    76.   Bob Timmermann
    If Ensberg can line into a triple play, I will be very happy!
    2005-07-08 17:21:38
    77.   DeucesAreWild
    Call me strange, but I prefer the less-flashy Sportsline to Gameday:

    Anyone else use this?

    2005-07-08 17:21:45
    78.   Jim Hitchcock
    73 - That's exactly how it happened, Bob :)
    2005-07-08 17:21:48
    79.   Jon Weisman
    74 - not that you'd have time to do that all.
    2005-07-08 17:22:28
    80.   LAT
    Man, DJ Jazzy Houlton not looking too good. Glad Manny the GS Machine doesn't play for Astros.
    2005-07-08 17:25:15
    81.   Jon Weisman
    On Gameday, all three hits look pretty soft/shallow.
    2005-07-08 17:26:12
    82.   Jon Weisman
    AP has just reported that Ledee was activated and Wunsch DLed. So Gameday is wrong there.
    2005-07-08 17:26:28
    83.   Mark Linsey
    DJ Houldini!
    2005-07-08 17:26:33
    84.   Linkmeister
    Cheaply enough. Nice flip from Robles.
    2005-07-08 17:28:10
    85.   Jim Tracy
    Wow, we have to score at least one run against Clemens.... this could be painful.
    2005-07-08 17:28:36
    86.   natepurcell
    holy crap, guzman just made an amazing play. hard grounder to the whole between 3b and SS, guzman a couple steps on the outfield grass, guns out dukes at first.

    6IP 3H 0ER 2BB 7K

    2005-07-08 17:29:44
    87.   natepurcell
    excuse me, hole
    2005-07-08 17:34:23
    88.   Steve
    Jackson turning himself into Dunn-bait.

    Anyone else wonder whether that leadoff error might prove, um, significant, at, um, some point tonight?

    2005-07-08 17:34:59
    89.   Jim Tracy
    I dunno, but I'm taking the over on Ks
    2005-07-08 17:35:38
    90.   natepurcell

    jackson stays!!!

    2005-07-08 17:35:49
    91.   Steve
    89 -- Houlton doesn't look THAT good.
    2005-07-08 17:36:24
    92.   Steve
    90 -- Well, it's your secret plan, not mine. If you say so.
    2005-07-08 17:36:51
    93.   Brad Bogner
    Wunsh is done for the season.
    2005-07-08 17:39:25
    94.   natepurcell

    hah, i guess i have to redo the dodgers 2006 masterplan.

    2005-07-08 17:42:34
    95.   joekings
    there goes the no-no.
    2005-07-08 17:42:52
    96.   bokonon42
    Hooray! No no-no for the rocket.
    2005-07-08 17:43:58
    97.   Brad Bogner
    Who do the Dodgers have in Las Vegas that's a lefty reliever?
    2005-07-08 17:44:20
    98.   Jim Tracy
    I'm a superstitious man, and if some unlucky accident should befall Edwin Jackson - if he is to be shot in the head by a line drive, or be found with hung toe nail... or if he should be struck by a bolt of lightning - then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room; and then I do not forgive. But with said, I pledge - on the souls of my grandchildren - that I will not be the one to bring up trading Jackson.
    2005-07-08 17:44:31
    99.   Bob Timmermann
    Wilson Alvarez could be reactivated.

    Or even, Mike Venafro....

    2005-07-08 17:45:03
    100.   bokonon42
    D.J. Houlton is a superior bunter, so saith Psycho.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-07-08 17:45:49
    101.   regfairfield
    I have some bizzare like of Mike Venafro.

    Bring the man up.

    2005-07-08 17:45:52
    102.   Jim Tracy
    97 - Mike Vanafro. Is he still there?
    2005-07-08 17:46:49
    103.   Steve
    Venafro is a superior bunter.
    2005-07-08 17:47:39
    104.   Jim Tracy
    So is J.D. Drew and Antonio Perez
    2005-07-08 17:47:41
    105.   bokonon42
    I thought Venafro was part of one of the trades last year. Was that Tom Martin?
    2005-07-08 17:47:41
    106.   Bob Timmermann
    Venafro has a 7.92 ERA at Vegas.
    2005-07-08 17:48:09
    107.   natepurcell
    jackson pitched valiantly. he bore down in the 7th, with the tying run on first and one out, the manager came out to take edwin out of the game, but edwin talked his way out of it and remained on the mound. he got the final two outs.

    final line for the king:
    7IP 5H 1ER 2BB 7K

    great outing.

    2005-07-08 17:49:01
    108.   Bob Timmermann
    I think having Houlton bunt there was the right call. You have an extremely good pitcher, facing an extremely poor hitter (it's not like Houlton has a lot of ABs). The chances of Houlton getting a hit or walk were rather remote.
    2005-07-08 17:49:45
    109.   Jim Tracy
    If Jackson keeps giving up a run every seven innings, they'll trade him before he'll ever pitch for the Dodgers.
    2005-07-08 17:50:38
    110.   bokonon42
    108- Houlton had a better chance of getting hit than getting a hit. The Rocket wasn't to pleased about Edwards reaching, it looked like.
    2005-07-08 17:51:27
    111.   bokonon42
    Too pleased, even.
    2005-07-08 17:52:29
    112.   alex 7
    yawn. good thing we're not facing a good pitcher, otherwise we might not get away with mistakes like that one.

    why isn't choi in the 2 hole? the guy goes on a rampage in that spot and he gets dropped down.

    Rooting for Houlton to get a QS despite knowing he'll get the loss. Kinda strange.

    2005-07-08 17:55:04
    113.   regfairfield
    So, who's a better defensive left fielder: Manny Ramirez or Jason Grabowski?
    2005-07-08 17:55:31
    114.   alex 7
    cut that meat, cut that meat, cut that meat
    2005-07-08 17:56:01
    115.   alex 7
    I think Manny wins on style/comedy points
    2005-07-08 17:56:14
    116.   Bob Timmermann
    The Gameday operator in Houston has problems. Ensberg is the second Astros who's gotten a hit on a play that was recorded as an out.
    2005-07-08 17:56:34
    117.   Steve
    Repko is a superior bunter.
    2005-07-08 17:57:17
    118.   natepurcell
    are we winning yet?
    2005-07-08 18:01:33
    119.   alex 7
    in 6 minutes nate. Choi will hit a 2-run jack.
    2005-07-08 18:03:02
    120.   Brad Bogner
    Phase 1 complete. Now we need Choi to pop one.
    2005-07-08 18:03:06
    121.   alex 7
    who's calling a 1st pitch DP here?
    2005-07-08 18:04:31
    122.   Brad Bogner
    I call 2nd pitch double play right now for Werth.
    2005-07-08 18:10:16
    123.   alex 7
    guessing he hit that well?
    2005-07-08 18:10:21
    124.   Vishal
    aw, crap. he keeps hitting 'em hard but can't catch a break.
    2005-07-08 18:17:55
    125.   Vishal
    i don't wanna jinx it but... houlton is cruising. [knock on wood]
    2005-07-08 18:19:26
    126.   alex 7
    this mike schmidt 3rd baseman we have might turn out to be ok afterall.
    2005-07-08 18:20:04
    127.   alex 7
    vegas has set the odds of a squeeze play this inning at 7:1
    2005-07-08 18:20:12
    128.   Christina
    Evening all...I had a stressful day at work, it would be nice if the Dodgers could somehow pull out tonight's game.

    77 from way back - DeucesAreWild, I generally use Sportsline too. It freezes less often than Gameday, even though both use the same feed.

    2005-07-08 18:22:39
    129.   Adam M
    OK, came late to the game and just wanted to say:

    *Phillips hitting fourth. We are through the looking glass here. Things you wish you could have bet on 6 months ago, and yet are sad you have to contemplate.

    *For 47, Timmermann, your place in heaven is secure. Had me giggling like a schoolgirl. Weisman, is it possible to have a post bronzed? Perhaps a DT hall of the immortals someday?

    2005-07-08 18:24:20
    130.   Gen3Blue
    Whos the rookie who didn't score on that ball rattling around in the right corner.
    He can't possibly have two legs
    2005-07-08 18:25:17
    131.   Steve
    If it was a sitcom, we'd call it "That's My Grabowski."
    2005-07-08 18:25:18
    132.   regfairfield
    He ends in "Owski"
    2005-07-08 18:26:38
    133.   regfairfield
    Another scrappy single from Repko.
    2005-07-08 18:27:34
    134.   bokonon42
    Repko: Scrappy as all get out.
    2005-07-08 18:27:38
    135.   KAYVMON
    Whether its smart or not, I loved watching that.
    2005-07-08 18:28:02
    136.   LAT
    Buster Douglas is rearing back. Tyson'd chin is sticking out. . .
    2005-07-08 18:29:02
    137.   Vishal
    can we officially get his name changed to jason scrapko?
    2005-07-08 18:29:09
    138.   natepurcell
    are we winning yet?
    2005-07-08 18:29:15
    139.   bokonon42
    118- They are now. Kent singles in the go-ahead run. I'll be hornswaggled.
    2005-07-08 18:29:16
    140.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
    Repko is a scrappy baserunner!
    2005-07-08 18:29:27
    141.   regfairfield
    Repko looked very out there (on the throw to third), have to see a replay.
    2005-07-08 18:29:34
    142.   Adam M
    Down Goes Tyson!
    2005-07-08 18:29:36
    143.   LAT
    . . .and Buster connects. Tyson on his heels.
    2005-07-08 18:30:30
    144.   Christina
    And Clemens is over 80 pitches. How's the Astros bullpen, apart from closer Lidge, this year? I haven't really been following the team since I left Houston almost two years ago.
    2005-07-08 18:30:45
    145.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
    Repko gets the left hand in, before the tag.
    Thanks Jason.
    2005-07-08 18:31:00
    146.   Steve
    Repko can't even kill an inning on purpose.
    2005-07-08 18:31:08
    147.   Vishal
    time for our cleanup hitter phillips to come through now
    2005-07-08 18:31:12
    148.   heato
    Isn't that 2,000 hits for Kent?
    2005-07-08 18:31:37
    149.   regfairfield
    Phillips has hit the ball well twice, at least. Houston's fence in that area is ridiculous.
    2005-07-08 18:32:08
    150.   Vishal
    144. they have this guy wheeler, who's been pretty solid. he's filled in for lidge who had a sore arm for a couple of weeks. other than that, i dunno.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-07-08 18:32:10
    151.   Adam M
    The Dodgers have twice as many runs against Clemens as every other team...combined.
    2005-07-08 18:33:19
    152.   LAT
    and the bell rings before Buster can land his next punch. . .

    Little nervous the way Kent was hopping there at the end.

    Gotta take the daughters to see Bewitched. Now I know why the office gave me a Blackberry. . .so I can follow the game in the theater, of course

    2005-07-08 18:34:15
    153.   heato
    Clemens has only allowed one run on the road. He's closer to mortal at home.
    2005-07-08 18:34:44
    154.   Vishal
    151. what? that makes no sense.
    2005-07-08 18:35:50
    155.   Steve
    What a retarded bunt. That place should be napalmed.
    2005-07-08 18:36:39
    156.   Adam M
    149. Amen. Berkman in the Derby last year was hitting balls over there like a tennis ball machine. It was like Mattel Basketball. It was like Mattel Electronic Basketball once you learn how to steal the inbounds. Or Tecmo Bo.
    2005-07-08 18:37:06
    157.   Adam M
    2005-07-08 18:37:39
    158.   Steve
    More evidence that the "Book" has been rewritten from "bunt when it kinda makes sense with your bad hitters up" to "bunt everytime it is metaphysically feasible in order to make a political point and impress Baseball Tonight"
    2005-07-08 18:40:15
    159.   regfairfield
    At least he was bunting to get to Berkman and Ensberg (who somehow amassed 23 home runs without me noticing), and not Adam Everett and the Ausmus.
    2005-07-08 18:44:12
    160.   brendan glynn
    I hope Weaver is paying attention. He could use a lesson in concentration from DJ.
    2005-07-08 18:44:56
    161.   Christina
    2005-07-08 18:45:25
    162.   Steve
    You're going to get to those guys anyway. Man on second nobody out. Against DJ Houlton? So goofy. He probably did it on his own. That's enough to revoke his HoF invitation.

    Good job DJ. Stuff that bunt straight up their #()&#&#.

    2005-07-08 18:47:11
    163.   regfairfield
    162- I'm not endorising it by any means, but it certainly wasn't the worst bunt ever.
    2005-07-08 18:47:50
    164.   heato
    Broxton with the save

    2 K's

    2005-07-08 18:48:37
    165.   regfairfield
    Choi gets redemption for that last at bat.
    2005-07-08 18:50:07
    166.   regfairfield
    Hmmm...hit and run 2-0 with Grabowski up and Choi on first. Real good idea there.
    2005-07-08 18:53:08
    167.   Steve
    163 -- no we basically have that market cornered, regardless of Clint Hurdle's dreams.
    2005-07-08 18:54:38
    168.   bokonon42
    New wrinkles in Steve's damnation: if the Dodgers pull this out the SportsCenter highlights will be 1. Scrapko diving in to first, 2. Grabowski making that leaping grab.
    2005-07-08 18:54:50
    169.   Jim Hitchcock
    ...for the Jason Grabowski Superior LF Defense Marching and Chowder Society :)
    2005-07-08 18:55:29
    170.   ROC
    Not to jinx this, but remember earlier this year when we hung the first loss on Dontrelle? If we 'kill another king' we should at least get some SportsCenter coverage beyond Grab's follies in LF.
    2005-07-08 18:58:45
    171.   Gen3Blue
    Help--is every newbey named Jason or do some spell it Jayson? I don't know half my team; the only thing I like about this is the scrappy stuff-wait did that grabowskowicz just make a pretty good grab!
    Maybe using all rooks is working in the outfield--it certainly doesn't in the infield. I've never seen anything like last night sinced ofawlman came up.
    2005-07-08 18:59:45
    172.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Man, I'm not sure I really believe what I'm seeing--almost too good to be true.

    Does DJ get out of jams, because he's tough as nails, or is it that he's just lucky? Or is it just better explained by the fact that he consistently throws strikes and doesn't beat himself? Or a mix of all three? I think the scouting report was that he made up for his lack of raw stuff with good command and a strong "feel" for pitching--that feel might be what lets him stave off disaster on occassion.

    Then again, we'll see if this all lasts.



    2005-07-08 19:00:31
    173.   Steve
    We have independent verification of the Perez-Offerman connection. It's not just me.
    2005-07-08 19:01:03
    174.   Christina
    170 - I'm almost sorry Kent is playing today. Yes, I know he has the go-ahead RBI, but if this were the ridiculously inexpensive lineup of 350K-or-less per batter (with the exception of Choi being a whole $1500 above 350K) earlier this week and someone else had hit the go-ahead run anyway, and we won, can you imagine what Sportscenter would be saying? Hee.
    2005-07-08 19:02:41
    175.   Gen3Blue
    Oh Steve you are too right!!
    2005-07-08 19:04:34
    176.   Steve
    175 -- I get grief for this. And I could usually care less about someone's defense. But Perez makes the kind of effortless errors that were the Offerman hallmark.
    2005-07-08 19:04:54
    177.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Houlton has a double. Off Clemens!!!


    Of course, you all know that if we do win, this game is really just part of this season's curse--to give us a little hope, and then promptly disappoint us again when we let our guard done.


    2005-07-08 19:05:05
    178.   Christina
    GO DJ!!

    Hee, this just gets better and better. Can you imagine how DJ must be feeling right now?

    2005-07-08 19:08:23
    179.   Steve
    Hard to tell the difference between 4 for 5 Repko and 1 for 4 Repko.
    2005-07-08 19:12:37
    180.   Bob Timmermann
    It's well after the fact, but Monday and Downing thought that Biggio was bunting for a hit.
    2005-07-08 19:14:07
    181.   Bob Timmermann
    Is 10 feet on the West Side the same as 10 feet on the East Side?
    2005-07-08 19:14:29
    182.   Gen3Blue
    I hate to press a rookie like Offerman/Perez
    I always think they deserve more chance to develop. I think--they make this awful error and then they are sort of stunned, and look stupafied for the next 3 plays that they blow: we should lighten up on them. But more than half of the time they turn out not to be able to field in the majors. Like Offer. So what do you do?
    2005-07-08 19:20:21
    183.   Steve
    Preston Wilson is hitting .224 on the road.

    Jim Bowden is an idiot.

    2005-07-08 19:20:30
    184.   Brad Bogner comes Duaner to blow everything.
    2005-07-08 19:21:23
    185.   regfairfield
    I've offically given up supporting Duaner.
    2005-07-08 19:21:30
    186.   Vic
    A little voice told me to change the channel...and yet I failed to listen...
    2005-07-08 19:21:45
    187.   overkill94
    Our bullpen sucks.

    The only solace is that we don't have to face Clemens anymore.

    2005-07-08 19:21:53
    188.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Argghhhhh--a few more feet, it would've been a ground-ruler. Stupid Duaner!!!


    2005-07-08 19:22:37
    189.   Brad Bogner
    Why did Tracy take out Houlton? He's been getting out of jams all night, might as well let me give it one more shot. Well, at least they came close to winning tonight.
    2005-07-08 19:22:41
    190.   JSN
    Houlton loves Duaner.
    2005-07-08 19:22:57
    191.   Steve
    Base open there Duaner.
    2005-07-08 19:22:58
    192.   Christina
    Poor DJ.
    2005-07-08 19:23:20
    193.   JSN
    ...and so do I.


    2005-07-08 19:23:44
    194.   Brad Bogner
    Do you get the feeling that Sanchez enjoys walking guys?
    2005-07-08 19:24:03
    195.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 189

    Well, we've criticized Trace for leaving guys in too long. DJ's pitch count was over 100. I've been writing a book review while catching pieces of the game here and there. Did DJ look gassed?


    2005-07-08 19:24:34
    196.   overkill94
    If we somehow remain in contention I vote for calling up Broxton and making him the 2005 version of Brazoban
    2005-07-08 19:25:18
    197.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    This really does stink for DJ. He was in line for getting a win against Clemens, along with the double. Not bad for a rookie whose ceiling was never supposed to be above a no. 4 starter.


    2005-07-08 19:25:37
    198.   JSN
    I vote for calling him up anyways. He can't be much worse then some of our bullpen, and can be much better, and even if we fall out of contention he gets a half year of major league experience.
    2005-07-08 19:26:28
    199.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 196

    That might be an idea. Sanchez as our setup man is obviously not working. With Wunsch out, we might as well roll the dice with Kuo if it looks we might hand around in the race.


    2005-07-08 19:26:34
    200.   regfairfield
    Hey Sanchez was incredibly bad in June, July, and August last year too!

    Go research!

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-07-08 19:26:39
    201.   Fearing Blue
    #196: The big difference is that Brazoban was 24 years old when he was called up. Broxton would only be 21, which I'm learning is extremely early to make an impact. I wouldn't mind seeing him, but we shouldn't expect much.
    2005-07-08 19:28:03
    202.   Benaiah
    Duaner you wound me. He is the absolute anti-thesis of clutch. I like that he doesn't get any ER despite the fact that Biggio scoring was 90% his fault. Ugh I am about to tear my hair out. At least Kent is back, at least Kent is back, at least Kent is back. Serenity now.
    2005-07-08 19:28:17
    203.   Steve
    Between D Thompson and DJ, Duaner is not earning very many steak dinners from the rookies.
    2005-07-08 19:28:24
    204.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 201

    But Brazoban was a converted position player, no? Didn't he have only a season and half of pro pitching, or something like that? The comparison with age may not work as well here.

    This same issue also comes up with Jackson, who pitched very little before he became a pro.


    2005-07-08 19:29:24
    205.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 202

    In Duaner's defense, and I've always seen him as over-rated, he has been able to get out of jams before with big Ks.


    2005-07-08 19:31:05
    206.   Christina
    201 - I agree we shouldn't expect much, but at the same time, it's certainly not impossible. Look at Huston Street, after all.
    2005-07-08 19:31:29
    207.   Benaiah
    199 - I wouldn't mind seeing Kou come up. I think it is a coinflip at this point whether or not he makes it to arbitration age and it isn't like his stuff won't do well in the majors. Give him a shot! I don't see it happening as he is probably lower on the depth charts than a ton of other minor league relievers (Schmoll et al), but we can dream.
    2005-07-08 19:31:46
    208.   overkill94
    Re 201:

    K-Rod did it

    2005-07-08 19:32:30
    209.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 208

    Of course, I don't think Broxton's stuff is quite as good as K-Rod. He might be the exception that proves the rule--kinda like Doc Gooden.


    2005-07-08 19:34:08
    210.   brendan glynn
    How does Tracy sleep at night without his LOOOGY? Not well. not well at all.
    2005-07-08 19:35:50
    211.   regfairfield
    Oh good, Kent gets taken out.
    2005-07-08 19:36:40
    212.   ddger
    No groundball to Perez please.
    2005-07-08 19:37:01
    213.   Bob Timmermann
    While Frankie Rodriguez had an awesome postseason in 2002, in 2003, he wasn't as unhittable and he had a 3.03 ERA and gave up 12 homers in 86 innings.

    He still had a little bit of learning to do.

    Granted, the Dodgers bullpen could use a guy with a 3.03 ERA.

    2005-07-08 19:37:18
    214.   ddger
    At least he catches popup.
    2005-07-08 19:37:42
    215.   Steelyeri

    Hate to reign in your serenity, but it looks like kent's hammy is acting up again.

    2005-07-08 19:38:08
    216.   ddger
    213. This year's bullpen without Gagne must be one of the worst ever for dodgers.
    2005-07-08 19:39:12
    217.   ddger
    Have we had a year where every relief pitcher ends up with above 4.00 ERA.
    2005-07-08 19:41:09
    218.   Benaiah
    Runner on base, I firmly expect the Astros to manage to score three on Duaner with the next batter. It is hard to pitch with both hands wrapped around your throat.
    2005-07-08 19:43:28
    219.   Bob Timmermann

    You don't remember what it was like when the Dodgers had to rely on Charlie Hough as their closer.

    The 1979 bullpen was pretty nondescript. Castillo came up at the end of the year and got 7 saves, but before that the firemen were guys like Dave Patterson, Ken Brett, and Lerrin LeGrow.

    Ooh, that was a long year.

    2005-07-08 19:44:06
    220.   Steve
    1) It seems like one of the best places a young pitcher can contribute quickly is in the bullpen.

    2) Aren't we going to have to stagger some of these kids coming up anyway? It's one thing to say "Bring up Billingsley, Guzman, Tiffany, LaRoche, Aybar, etc." and another to start bringing up one or two targeted guys in places where we need the most help. I still don't understand if we have a whole boatload of kids projecting to pro ball why we can't bring a couple of them up.

    Particularly within the division. It's practically AAA anyway.

    2005-07-08 19:45:15
    221.   Benaiah
    215 - So they didn't take him out as a preventative measure? I mean I think if he has the slightest ache or twinge then pull him, as we are one extended DL stint from Kent away from having no team at all. There is a time for heroism, but when the Devil is running triage you gotta be careful.
    2005-07-08 19:46:54
    222.   heato
    Anyone know why they took out Kent? Is he ok?
    2005-07-08 19:47:48
    223.   Albert in Hong Kong
    Steiner think the hammy's been acting up.
    2005-07-08 19:48:34
    224.   overkill94
    Chances of us scoring against Lidge...not good

    Looks like ole Yhency's gonna have to pitch in a non-save situation, I wonder if he knows how to do that.

    2005-07-08 19:50:09
    225.   Bob Timmermann
    Does anyone remember what it was like when the winning run was on third and Hough would be relieving and tossing knuckleballs up there?

    Guaranteed to scare you more than Duaner.

    2005-07-08 19:52:00
    226.   Steelyeri
    221- he hobbled on it a little weird when he ran to first base. It looks like he might have re-aggravated it. Those hamstring injuries tend to linger for weeks at a time.
    2005-07-08 19:53:20
    227.   Steve
    My mom tells me she hated changing my diapers after a Hough save opportunity.
    2005-07-08 19:57:20
    228.   ddger
    How often do our pitchers watch grounders to right side and then start running late to cover 1st. Who teaches these guys fundamentals, Colburn or Tracy.
    2005-07-08 19:57:35
    229.   Brad Bogner
    It must be good to watch a team that can lay down a bunt.
    2005-07-08 19:58:13
    230.   regfairfield
    Wow, Phil Garner is really stupid.
    2005-07-08 19:58:53
    231.   ddger
    225. I remember Hough days. It was agonizing to watch him get saves. I guess that's why we don't have knuckerball relief pitchers anymore.

    Hope we don't lose this game on that muffed play at 1st.

    2005-07-08 20:00:11
    232.   heato
    I realize that Edwards made the last out, but why would Tracy substitute Ross for Werth? Werth is a better hitter and fielder than Grabs.

    Werth AND Kent...

    2005-07-08 20:01:09
    233.   regfairfield
    2005-07-08 20:01:14
    234.   Steelyeri
    brazoban just hit 98 on the gun, and then gives up a game winning homer.
    2005-07-08 20:01:34
    235.   overkill94
    See, that's why Brazoban doesn't come in when it's not a save situation
    2005-07-08 20:01:39
    236.   Bob Timmermann
    All those people who had the Astros at -250 are breathing easier now.
    2005-07-08 20:01:48
    237.   ddger
    At least we stayed in it till the end.

    Why wasn't that flyball caught.

    2005-07-08 20:02:11
    238.   Benaiah
    I hate our bullpen!
    2005-07-08 20:02:30
    239.   Albert in Hong Kong
    Good thing I already closed MLBtv and Gameday before the final score.
    2005-07-08 20:03:41
    240.   ddger
    Could Werth have caught that ball? Why was he taken out? This year has been comedy of errors and illogical decision making.
    2005-07-08 20:04:02
    241.   Brad Bogner
    I feel like I'm watching the Kevin Malone era Dodgers.
    2005-07-08 20:04:20
    242.   Benaiah
    There is not a single pitcher in the bullpen that I trust with the game on the line. Yhency has the stuff, but he can't get the outs when it matters lately. I don't miss Mota, but I do miss the days where a one run lead in the 7th felt untouchable.
    2005-07-08 20:04:52
    243.   Bob Timmermann
    Werth wasn't taken out. Werth moved to left. Ross was in right field as Grabowski was taken out on a double switch.
    2005-07-08 20:05:16
    244.   Fearing Blue
    #220: I'm all for bringing up young relievers, but I think Schmoll, Stults, and Thompson are more likely, because they're a) already on the 40-man roster, and b) older.
    2005-07-08 20:05:41
    245.   heato
    Tracy must have seen that Grabs had a hit today and Werth was hitless, so he probably didn't have much trouble making that decision.
    2005-07-08 20:06:07
    246.   regfairfield
    We moved Werth to LF, Grabowski came out.

    Watching the replay, it looks like Ross could have caught that, but he thought he was going to run into Repko, chickened out, and sort of fell down.

    2005-07-08 20:06:32
    247.   heato
    Oh, CBS Sportsline said Werth had been removed.
    2005-07-08 20:07:21
    248.   Steelyeri
    234- oops, sorry. it wasn't a homer just a fly ball that dropped.

    240- I don't know if he would have caught it but he would have a better chance than cody ross.

    2005-07-08 20:07:49
    249.   Steve
    244 -- well ok. So where are they?

    Well, where was Mr. BigShot Scrappy #2 Hitter in all of this? Huh? Huh? Huh?

    2005-07-08 20:09:26
    250.   Steelyeri
    2 tough losses in a row.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2005-07-08 20:10:59
    251.   Steelyeri
    Did you guys hear that wunsch is out for the season? Man, talk about a comedy of errors. Somebody up there hates us this year.
    2005-07-08 20:13:11
    252.   Steve
    Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Braz threw an 0-2 fastball right down the pipe to Ensberg -- probably the only pitch he could have hit in that situation?
    2005-07-08 20:14:29
    253.   Bob Timmermann
    Even if the CF-RF were Bradley and Drew, that fly ball would have been hard to catch. Ensberg hit it a long way and both Repko and Ross had to cover a lot of ground.
    2005-07-08 20:16:22
    254.   regfairfield
    253 - I do acknowldge that it would have been a very good catch, but Ross could have had a play if he wouldn't have stopped.
    2005-07-08 20:17:21
    255.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Could Choi have made the play at 1B? I didn't get to see that specific play and only heard snatches of it.

    Any loss is tough, but really, did any of us expect anything better? It was something of a minor miracle that DJ outpitched Clemens, but how many miracles can we have? Our bullpen stinks--I feel almost haunted now by my memory of one of Meagher's off-season analyses of Brazoban when he declared him over-rated. Too many walks I think. I'm sorry to say that he was right. Oh well....


    2005-07-08 20:19:39
    256.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 253

    I agree with Bob on this one--that ball looked like it was hit pretty well--we're not talking about some pop-fly that was lost here. It'd be better to hang the game on our punchless offense and pathetic bullpen rather than the absence of a sterling catch in the OF in the ninth.


    2005-07-08 20:20:29
    257.   Benaiah
    253 - I agree it was a tough catch, but they both got there and both seemed afraid. That could have been a webgem for the ages, but instead it is just another tough one for the boys in blue. Given that the Dads look like they are going to win, my double 2-2 optimism is fading fast. Now the Rockies have to win the series and we have to win the next two nights.
    2005-07-08 20:21:31
    258.   regfairfield
    256 - I wouldn't be as upset had Cody Ross not just flopped on to the ground.
    2005-07-08 20:21:33
    259.   Bob Timmermann
    I think we have realized one reason why Cody Ross has been in the minors for a while. The only hope for the Dodgers would have been for Repko to make the play.

    I've decided now that I will only care about Arizona and San Francisco scores. Maybe we can finish second. But I really hope we avoid fourth place.

    Fourth place would be the fulfillment of the Naccarato Prophecy. That would be dire.

    2005-07-08 20:22:00
    260.   Brad Bogner
    It would have been a close call at first, but Choi still should've been able to field the ball properly.
    2005-07-08 20:24:42
    261.   Fearing Blue
    A couple more reasons why Francisco Rodriguez is not a good comparable for Jonathan Broxton.

    1) In 318.1 innings of minor league experience, Rodriguez struck out 421 batters (11.91 K/9). In 278 innings of minor league experience, Broxton has struck out 294 batters (9.66 K/IP).

    2) Rodriguez had at least 87 innings of bullpen experience before being brought up. So far, Broxton has around 20 innings of bullpen experience.

    I think Broxton will be a fine reliever and possibly closer, but suggesting a comparison to the best young closer in the game is a bit premature.

    2005-07-08 20:26:44
    262.   Steve
    Is Broxton a good comparable to Carrara or Sanchez?

    If not, I suggest we bring him up here.

    2005-07-08 20:26:52
    263.   Fearing Blue
    #260: Even with the bobble, the throw was to the bag in time, but Brazoban wasn't.
    2005-07-08 20:29:25
    264.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 260

    Thanks, I was just curious.

    Re: 259

    In all due honesty, I really don't care at this point where we end up in the standings--just that we give Choi a fair shake to see if he can play everyday, try out a few other kids, and make good moves for the long term. Sometimes it just isn't your year, and this is just one of those for us.

    Wunsch blowing his ankle out warming up sums everything up--the Houston broadcasting crew sounded downright sorry for us, and they were especially astounded by that occurrence. I was worried there would be all this gloating about DePo and Moneyball--instead, their color man said he's never seen a team as badly decimated by injuries as we are.

    I think this year is basically retribution by the baseball gods for last year's squad, which wasn't very good and benefited from lots of luck--look at how guys like Lima, Cora, and Beltre have done elsewhere. Now all the breaks are going the other way.


    2005-07-08 20:32:29
    265.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 257

    BTW, before we pound on Ross for one play, his MO IIRC in the minors was that he was a kid who lacked the tools but made up for it by playing his heart out.


    2005-07-08 20:33:04
    266.   Bob Timmermann
    Cora got a break. He got traded to the Red Sox, so he has a pretty good chance of getting to the postseason now.

    Lima thinks he will be picked up by an NL team after the Royals release him. I'm not quite sure which NL team needs Jose Lima in its rotation. The Giants? The DBacks?

    2005-07-08 20:33:15
    267.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 263

    Well, hearing of another mental mistakes actually makes me feel worse. Thanks for the info anyways.


    2005-07-08 20:33:50
    268.   Fearing Blue
    #262: Broxton will be significantly better than both Carrara and Sanchez, though at 25 years old, Sanchez still has an outside shot of turning into a great reliever. This year, in the major leagues, there's a very good chance he would be worse than both of them.
    2005-07-08 20:35:10
    269.   Fearing Blue
    #264: Indeed. Last year's luck is balancing out with a vengeance.
    2005-07-08 20:36:11
    270.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    Re: 266

    Lima might work out SBC, which should depress the HR total, but he certainly won't be the piece that saves their season. Lima in the BOB sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.


    2005-07-08 20:39:32
    271.   Benaiah
    264 - More and more I am getting used to the idea of a year where the goal is just giving the young guys another year to develop. I think that alot of the older guys in the pen should be DFA'd or traded just to free up spaces for young guys to audition. Thompson, Stults and Schmoll need to get prolonged exposure this year. What is the point in keeping old washed up scrubs in the bullpen even assuming that expierence gives them a slight edge this year? If we have so many power arms in the minors it seems like we should be able to come up with something better than Osoria in the pen. Keep the guys that are going to be on the team next year and give away crap like Gio, or even sell Yhency high if anyone is buying.

    Also, why not bring up some of the older OFs from Jacksonville? Those guys are old enough that it would seem like they are past a shot in the majors, but really you can't tell me they would do worse than Ross and Grabbo have. Plus, it is a nice human interest story in a year that has mostly had tales of woe.

    2005-07-08 20:40:11
    272.   Bob Timmermann
    Brad Halsey has shut out the DBacks through 8 in Arizona. The DBacks have been getting some good pitching recently although their offense has disappeared somewhat. They are up 3-0 today.

    The Giants are down to the Cardinals 3-0. Schmidt vs. Mulder. Someplace I read that it was "Ace vs. Ace". Since when Mulder become the Cardinals ace? Chris Carpenter would beg to differ.

    2005-07-08 20:42:10
    273.   Benaiah
    The Choi play reminds me of that Sanez "hustle" play yesterday where he belated dove towards the bag. Our pitcher wasn't there on that one either.
    2005-07-08 20:44:46
    274.   Steve
    268 -- We're not playing for this year. So who cares about his numbers?
    2005-07-08 20:44:51
    275.   Bob Timmermann
    Ken Griffey tied the game up in Arizona with a 3-run homer off of reliever Armando Almanza.
    2005-07-08 20:51:51
    276.   ddger
    273. I can understand the lack of physical skills by our players but the lack of fundamentals (bunting, cover bases, advancing baserunners, etc) is getting increasingly frustrating to watch. They should practice fundamentals everyday through the rest of the season until they can do it in games.

    Is this due to Depo's moneyball philosophy or Tracy's managing.

    The dodgers used to be an organization that was known for doing the fundamentals but we can no longer say that.

    2005-07-08 20:52:00
    277.   Jon Weisman
    271 - The fact that you've already expired Cody Ross as a human interest story, when he's been on the team for about three seconds, makes me question your sincerity on looking for human interest stories.

    This year has been nothing but a "give these guys a shot" year. We are fairly well inoculated. But I suppose we could just invite everybody into the pool.

    2005-07-08 20:52:05
    278.   Fearing Blue
    #271: I generally agree with you, but your logic breaks down a little.

    1) You're suggesting promoting relievers, but canning Osoria. At 23-years old, Osoria had a 2.52 ERA in 39.1 innings in Las Vegas. He was the only pitcher on the team with an ERA under 4.00 at the time he was promoted.

    2) You're suggesting promoting career minor leaguers from Jacksonville, but canning the potential prospects from Las Vegas. Jason Repko posted a .807 OPS in Jacksonville last year at 23 years old. In Las Vegas this year, he has posted a 1.064 OPS in 31 ABs. Cody Ross posted a .860 OPS in Erie (AA) at 21 years old in 2002. In Las Vegas this year, he has posted a .879 OPS in 223 ABs. Not only are Repko and Ross likely better than Meadows and Weber now, they also have longterm potential.

    The problem with rookies in general is that, unless they are destined to be superstars, they typically do not perform at a high level when they are first called up. Take a look at my earlier post, and you'll see that even for the good players on our team, it often took 1 - 2 years of major league experience before they started performing like they belonged.

    2005-07-08 20:54:36
    279.   Fearing Blue
    #274: Because it costs us a good year in the future. If the season is toast and Broxton can improve as much in the minors as he can in the majors, then bringing him up doesn't do any good.
    2005-07-08 20:55:21
    280.   Jon Weisman
    276 - "The dodgers used to be an organization that was known for doing the fundamentals but we can no longer say that. "

    This is true but except for 2004, the Dodgers haven't been good at fundamentals for years and years.

    2005-07-08 20:57:19
    281.   ddger
    280. I remember "DOING IT THE DODGER'S WAY" but now it's "DON'T DO IT THE DODGER'S WAY".
    2005-07-08 20:59:52
    282.   Fearing Blue
    #278: Actually, my last paragraph doesn't cover what is currently an important open question for me. That is, is it necessary for most prospects to fail for 1 - 2 years at the major league level before they can succeed? My belief is that it is not, but that teams, especially economically challenged ones, lose a ton of value because of their lack of understanding of this point.
    2005-07-08 21:04:26
    283.   ddger
    I miss the old days (Garvey, Cey, Russell, Lopes) when you develop your own players instead of hiring mercenaries (Drew, Kent, Lowe, etc). There is no more loyalty and pride in being part of an organization.
    2005-07-08 21:12:39
    284.   dzzrtRatt
    you hire the mercenaries when a team has failed to develop its own players of the calibre of Garvey/Cey/Lopes/Russell. Even that team succeeded with mercenaries: Reggie Smith, Dusty Baker, Tommy John, Manny Mota. I don't believe any of them spent a day in the Dodger farm system.

    The Kevin Malone generation is who is at AAA now. He wrecked the farm system (with some assistance from Fred Claire and Tommy Lasorda).

    2005-07-08 21:31:24
    285.   Bob Timmermann
    There hasn't been loyalty and pride in any organization since free agency was instituted.

    That's just the nature of all sports now. The GALORUSSEY infield could never happen now. No team could afford to keep four stars in the infield for such an extended period of time.

    But I resent the fact that people think that the players on the Dodgers team don't care about winning. They are definitely trying. They are professionals. They have shown no signs of giving up. The players available on the roster now just aren't all that good.

    But they care. They want to win. That is their nature. The 25 guys on the roster are all highly competitive individuals.

    2005-07-08 21:44:28
    286.   bokonon42
    Buster Olney sounded pretty high on Preston Wilson, just now on Baseball Tonight. Anyone else coming around on him? He was also sure that Lima would be good, again, if he could just get back in the NL. What would the Royals want for him?
    2005-07-08 21:44:30
    287.   Bob Timmermann
    As for loyalty also here was the end result of the Dodgers infield of the late 1970s.

    Garvey - left as free agent after 1982 because Campanis thought that he had a younger, better player.
    Lopes - traded after 1981 season because Campanis thought he had a younger and better player
    Cey - traded after 1982 season because Campanish thought that Pedro Guerrero could take over the position
    Russell - allowed to retire as Dodger because he was willing to be utility player. Then he was the first Dodgers manager to be fired midseason in over a century.

    2005-07-08 21:51:28
    288.   Dodgerkid
    Rob Neyer did an analysis of whether that infield had been left intact over the years, if it would have continued to produce in his book Best Baseball Lineups. He thought that it was right to let them all go in the end.
    2005-07-08 21:52:19
    289.   bokonon42
    287-I wasn't coherent, particularly, for the first three, but the Russell firing still leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. He makes a crummy third-base coach, but he didn't deserve to be dumped the way he was. McCourt has a couple of Ross Porter-esque dumpings left before he meets that standard.
    2005-07-08 21:57:28
    290.   bill cox
    Fearing,I'll grant potential to Repko who's had his moments this year.Ross was pretty much a marginal prospect when acquired from Detroit.His future as a Dodger is probably less than nil.I've seen Weber play four games this year and he looks to be at least marginally skilled.Todd Donovan likewise.When Bradley and Drew are healthy plus whatever acquisitions we acquire and younger guys develop all these guys will be afterthoughts anyways.If the current guys aren't producing try another AAAA player.Maybe somebody will overacheive.I don't understand keeping Grabowski for any reason.(his hit off Clemens tonight probably earned him a lifetime contract)
    Schmoll and Stults ought to get a shot this year.Gio and Erickson should be sent packing.
    How about Carlos Alvarez or Luis Rodriguez from Jacksonville to replace Wunsch?
    If not already posted Edwin Jackson had a good start tonight against one of the better SL offensive teams.
    2005-07-08 21:57:58
    291.   Bob Timmermann
    Baseball's history has shown that an organization's loyalty to a player is directly proportional to that player's performance and price tag. Once the player is too old or too expensive, the organization has no need for the player anymore. So why should a player develop some sort of special allegiance to an organization?

    Most of us when we go find a career don't have our employer chosen for us by a cartel and then have out place of employment changed around for the first several years of our career without our consent.

    I better stop now. I'm getting mad. I don't like to get mad.

    2005-07-08 22:00:24
    292.   Dodgerkid

    Recent major Vin Scully article.

    2005-07-08 22:02:46
    293.   natepurcell
    well the suns won today. so we should all be grateful for their success.... lol
    2005-07-08 22:10:00
    294.   Suffering Bruin
    REMEMBER: Midnight is the deadline for e-mailing me about attending the Reds game.


    Well I just viewed tonights contest on fast-forward TiVo (thank all that is holy for TiVo!) and that one hurt.

    While it may be cliche to say it, I have never seen so many injuries inflicted on one team. That makes it impossible for me to view 2005 as anything other than an aberration. This team cannot hope to compete with 7-9 regulars rotating on the DL.

    2005-07-08 22:15:15
    295.   Jim Hitchcock
    Well, you're absolutely correct in your contentions, Bob, so don't get mad.

    I mean, just because Icaros ate all the eel stored on your shelves...

    2005-07-08 22:18:56
    296.   Bob Timmermann
    Icaros didn't know how to read the expiration dates I'm afraid. Those cans of eel don't last forever.

    The DBacks and Giants both lost today.

    It's funny in the Minnesota series, the Angels looked so good. And watching them these past two nights against Seattle, you wonder how they got to be in first place by so much. Bad pitching, bad baserunning, bad fielding.

    2005-07-08 22:19:30
    297.   Steve
    286 -- OK, we have to all stick together here on the Preston Wilson thing.

    1) Buster Olney = Run like the wind.

    2) Preston Wilson = .224 Road batting average

    2005-07-08 22:24:50
    298.   Jim Hitchcock
    Your mostly preaching to the choir here, I'd hope, Steve.

    When buying Band-aids, it's best to go for true quality.

    2005-07-08 22:28:29
    299.   Marty
    I don't want anyone named Preston. I also don't pine for the "good old days" before free agency. It was a slave trade then. The clubs would use the players up and then dump them when it suited them. Whatever issues there are nowadays, it's a far better system now.
    2005-07-08 22:31:27
    300.   LAT
    Well, its hard to say what's worse, the Dodger game or Bewitched. On the one hand, the movie was REALLY bad. On the other hand, Bewitched kept me from having to watch the last 3 innings. Too close to call. They both sucked.

    (Actually, I was warned the movie was bad but no warning could have prepared me for how truly lame it was.)

    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2005-07-08 22:31:27
    301.   Steve
    DePo can be blamed for many things; he may get credit for many things. That argument can go on forever. But, to borrow from William Jennings Bryan, DePo shall not be crucified on a cross of Preston Wilson.
    2005-07-08 22:31:38
    302.   Jim Hitchcock
    Hey, Marty, you thinking on going to the game?
    Because, well, you know, I'd vote for you to be in charge of catering :)
    2005-07-08 22:32:12
    303.   Fearing Blue
    #290: Ross has only had 24 at-bats with the Dodgers, so at 24 years old I'm not quite ready to say it's the end of his career. Last year, Ross put up a .273/.328/.538 (.866 OPS) line in Las Vegas while Repko put up a .311/.355/.493 (.848 OPS) line. Also, Ross and Repko were born within days of each other, December 23rd and December 27th of 1980. Other than Repko's huge edge in scrappiness, I'm not sure that much separates the two of them.
    2005-07-08 22:33:29
    304.   Jim Hitchcock
    300 - Well, on the bright side, Tom Cruise.
    2005-07-08 22:34:53
    305.   Fearing Blue
    #297: Preston Wilson and Jose Lima, eh? That Olney character sure is a comedian.

    Matt Lawton is better than Preston Wilson and probably cheaper, since he doesn't have Coors-inflated stats bloating his resume.

    2005-07-08 22:38:11
    306.   Marty
    I signed up with SB Jim. Sorry, I love Dodger peanuts and always gorge myself on them :)
    2005-07-08 22:40:15
    307.   Jim Hitchcock
    Aw, well. I'll buy you a beer anyway, Marty. Just no Bud.
    2005-07-08 22:40:49
    308.   LAT
    304. Good point Jim. But she is his ex-wife and a memeber of the same cult, oops I mean church.
    2005-07-08 22:41:37
    309.   Marty
    But, you can't do better than stopping at Phillipe before the game. I prefer the lamb. Slather on some of the hot mustard and I am in heaven.
    2005-07-08 22:43:00
    310.   LAT
    309. Pie. Always leave room for pie!!!
    2005-07-08 22:43:43
    311.   Steve
    I think that when her contract with Cruise ran out, so did the Scientology.
    2005-07-08 22:45:57
    312.   Marty
    What would be perfect is to have a day game. That way, you can stop at Langers in Mcarther Park for the world's best pastrami. I'm serious, all my New York friends agree that Langers is the best. Order it hand cut with their amazing rye bread. My favorite meal and I go there about 4 times a month. Which partially explains my weight problem!
    2005-07-08 22:47:40
    313.   Jim Hitchcock
    That's the second time you guys have mentioned Phillipes. I'm there.

    It would be kind of comical to be eating in a room full of strangers only to find us all sitting together later at the game.

    LAT, haven't really been following Tom's Travails, but didn't I hear that one of the problems between the two was the devotion to Proc...uh, *Scien*tology?

    2005-07-08 22:49:27
    314.   Marty
    I'll be wearing my Team Depo shirt I hope.
    2005-07-08 22:53:01
    315.   LAT
    311. I didn't think Scientology let anyone just walk away.

    312. Marty I have not been there in 10 years. Now I have to try it again. A relativly new place for a good sandwich is Bay Cities Market in Santa Monica. Really good but the lines are long.

    2005-07-08 22:56:01
    316.   Steve
    I wonder what L Ron could do for a broken wrist and a headcase pitcher...?
    2005-07-08 22:58:26
    317.   Marty
    I've not been, but hear great things about Bay Cities. I don't get to the west side too often. Another good place on the edge of Chinatown is the Eastside Italian Market. Great sandwiches. Lots of combos like beef and pastrami. I don't know how late they stay open.
    2005-07-08 23:00:17
    318.   LAT
    We could do breakfast at John O' Groates; lunch at Langers, dinner at Phillipes, dessert at the Apple Pan.

    Hey, Kelly Wunch made ESPN's Top 10 plays. Well it was the worst 10 plays of the week. But isn't any pressgood press. They said Wunch hurt himself warming up and then again worse stomping into the bullpen dugout.

    2005-07-08 23:00:51
    319.   Jim Hitchcock
    316 - I know they're not related, but I always equate Hubbard with that Marshall Whateverhisname, the guy who bought the Nikes and sent his followers off to a comet rendevous.

    All Aboard!

    2005-07-08 23:02:16
    320.   Steve
    315 -- Maybe you can buy yourself out, sort of like a pension plan or life insurance.
    2005-07-08 23:04:57
    321.   Bob Timmermann
    I think Nicole Kidman returned to the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith.

    Or at least nominally.

    You can't get out of that group either. But the Membership Committee isn't quite as interested in keeping track.

    2005-07-08 23:09:28
    322.   LAT
    320 Steve, I bet your right. I'm also guessing that the two have alot of dirt on each another and its a Mexican Standoff. (Is that term anti-PC? You know, its not called a "Chinese Wall" anymore.)
    2005-07-08 23:10:44
    323.   Steve
    And if Tom Cruise's lawyer is reading this, I can be reached at:

    Ross Porter
    c/o 1540 AM "The Ticket"
    Los Angeles, CA

    2005-07-08 23:13:11
    324.   LAT
    321. So Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are locked in an epic battle for Nicole Kidman's soul? That would make quite a movie.
    2005-07-08 23:26:49
    325.   Jim Hitchcock
    324 - Damn. Hope that one's not one in Aramaic...
    2005-07-08 23:43:38
    326.   Fearing Blue
    I exteded my prospect progress analysis to include the Angels. Adding the Angels did not meaningfully change any of the median numbers. But, the Angels do have a few interesting examples of teen prospects making it to the majors quickly:

    1) Vladimir Guerrero was good at age 20.6, 3.9 years after signing. Not a good comparison to any of our prospects as Guerrero was OPSing 1.044 in AA before his callup.

    2) Francisco Rodriguez was good at age 20.7, 4.8 years after signing. Not a good comparison to any of our propsects for reasons discussed earlier.

    3) Kelvim Escobar was good at age 22.1, 6 years after signing. At 20.9 and 21.1 respectively, Billingsley and Broxton are both a year younger than Escobar was at that time. Also, with only 2.1 and 3.1 years since signing, they don't have nearly the experience level.

    4) Esteban Yan was good at 22.8, 7.8 years after signing at 15 years old. Again, Yan was older than our top pitching prospects before he had an impact and he had much more professional experience.

    5) Garret Anderson was good at 22.8, 4.9 years after signing. Anderson regressed significantly the following year, so his initial performance was likely a fluke (mainly based on a high batting average). It took Anderson until 24.8 until he started consistently performing at an above-average level.

    So, this likely means we have a little while to wait for a significant impact from our four top prospects:

    Joel Guzman is performing well, but not Guerrero level, as a 20.6 year old in AA. Guzman has only had 4.1 years since signing, so he likely won't be an impact contributor until 2007.

    Chad Billingsley is performing well, but not consistently dominating, compiling a 4.22 ERA while allowing 8 homeruns in 85.1 innings. His strikeouts (101) and walks (29) still foreshadow extreme major league success. Billingsley is 20.9 years old, but he has only had 2.1 years of minor league experience. As a starter, it will likely be sometime in 2007 before he can be an impact contributor.

    Jonathan Broxton hasn't been quite as dominating as Billingsley (87 Ks in 83.0 innings), but his 3.36 ERA is better, partly due to his ability to keep the ball in the park (only 4 homeruns allowed). Broxton is just a bit older at 21.1 and has an extra year of minor league experience (3.1 years). Moving to the bullpen has given Broxton a little extra on his fastball, and he may be able to make an impact as a reliever sometime in 2006.

    Andy LaRoche is the oldest of the top prospects at 21.9 years old. But, as with Billingsley, he's only had 2.1 years in the Dodgers system. In his first 18 games with the Suns, LaRoche has put up a 1.068 OPS in 70 ABs. Targetting the All-Star break 2006 is aggressive, but possible if he continues to put up a 1.000+ OPS in AA this year and AAA the first half next year. At 22.9 years old, he wouldn't be the youngest player to have a major league impact, but his 3.1 years in the system would rank very low within the Dodgers and Angels systems (the only ones I've analyzed).

    Dark Horse Candidates:

    Though they don't have the same upside as other prospects, D.J. Houlton, Derek Thompson, Eric Stults, Steve Schmoll, Eric Hull, and Hong-chih Kuo will all be at least 25 next year. It appears that age is more important than experience in terms of predicting initial impact, so this group could be sleeper candidates for this year and next.

    2005-07-08 23:55:15
    327.   Fearing Blue
    #326: Carlos Alvarez is also worth mentioning. Alvarez could be comparable to Francisco Rodriguez statistically, but it's too early to tell. Alvarez was signed in 2003 at 18 years old. Since then, he has struck out 159 batters in 117 innings up through Low-A. Additionally, all of his experience is as a reliever. If Alvarez can keep up that type of K-rate through the end of the year, his numbers will compare favorably to K-Rod's minor league numbers. So far in Jacksonville, Alvarez has struck out 10 in 6.1 innings.

    Hong-chih Kuo would also profile as an overpowering reliever if he can stay healthy, which is a big if. In 71.2 innings, Kuo has struck out 107 batters. Unfortunately, those numbers have been put up over a 6-year period which included two Tommy John surgeries.

    2005-07-09 00:10:36
    328.   Fearing Blue
    ESPN is replaying the 4th of July hot dog eating contest and I can't stop watching. Perhaps the Dodgers would be more exciting if they used an eating contest to determine which of their replacement outfielders (Repko, Ross, Chen, Grabowski) gets sent down next?
    2005-07-09 00:15:07
    329.   ddger
    Fearing Blue, I'm very impressed with David Wright of Mets. He's only 22 and he is playing very well his first 2 years. Is LaRoche comparable to Wright.
    2005-07-09 00:22:14
    330.   heato
    Did you hear about the Dodgers latest addition to the bullpen...Brad Penny.

    In the Times, Tracy said that Penny could throw out of the bullpen if necessary this weekend because he does not start until after the All-Star Break.

    2005-07-09 00:25:43
    331.   Bob Timmermann
    I had assumed that Penny's availability was the reason that the Dodgers activated Ledee instead of Alvarez. There's no need for an extra pitcher for a while. And Houlton is going to be skipped after the break also.
    2005-07-09 01:02:41
    332.   natepurcell
    Fearing Blue, I'm very impressed with David Wright of Mets. He's only 22 and he is playing very well his first 2 years. Is LaRoche comparable to Wright.

    laroche has shown more power than wright. but wright showned better plate discipline. when you watch laroche, his batting stance/style looks very similar to david wright.

    2005-07-09 07:02:14
    333.   bill cox
    Amended comment on #290-I meant Luis Gonzalez for the other lefty J'ville reliever.What's his ceiling,Fearing Blue?
    Also what is the status of Kuo.I see he is still listed on the roster at jacksonville?Didn't he hurt his arm the other day?
    Also what is the prospect status of Justin Ruggiano?
    The problem,FB of being the prospect guru is that we will use you as a resource.
    2005-07-09 07:48:25
    334.   Fearing Blue
    #329: I read somewhere that LaRoche doesn't quite have David Wright's upside. Here are a few comments on the two:

    1) As Nate mentioned, Wright had better plate discipline throughout his minor league career, though LaRoche makes slightly better contact. In the minors, Wright walked 219 times (13.2% of his PAs) and struck out 302 times (18.2% of his PAs) in 1656 PAs (approximately). LaRoche has walked 76 times (9.0% of his PAs) and struck out 134 times (15.8% of his PAs) in 844 PAs.

    2) Also as Nate mentioned, LaRoche has shown more power. LaRoche has homered 49 times in 844 PAs (5.8% of his PAs) and, in the minors, Wright only homered 48 times in 1656 PAs (2.9% of his PAs).

    3) Defensively, it seems like LaRoche has a slight advantage over Wright. LaRoche currently projects as a slightly above average third baseman.

    4) Last, Wright was drafted in 2001 and made it to the majors in 2005. LaRoche was drafted in 2003, so projecting the same timeframe for him to make an impact would put him starting at 3B in 2007.

    2005-07-09 08:16:52
    335.   Fearing Blue
    #333: I enjoy trying to answer the questions, but I wouldn't call myself a guru. I don't have enough knowledge of other team's systems to come up with good comparables / upsides for our prospects. Now onto the answers...

    1) Luis Gonzalez is a little bit old at 22.4 and has already spent 4 years in the minors. His ERA of 1.55 and HR/9 of .19 are spectacular but he hasn't dominated hitters or had the best control. Gonzalez has only struck out 35 and has walked 23 in 46.1 innings. His success this year is being bolstered by a really low BABIP, as he's only allowed 23 hits in 46.1 innings, which is likely luck since he allowed 73 hits in 64.2 innings last year. At this point, I'd say his upside is a 5th / 6th bullpen guy unless he shows he can up his K-rate, while dropping his walk rate.

    2) Nate posted about this earlier in the thread. Kuo heard a pop in his arm about a week ago, but supposedly everything is fine now and he's again available for relief. At this point, we don't have any information as to what the problem was. Kuo has as much, if not more, potential than any other reliever in our system. The problem is that he needs to stay healthy, which he never has in the past.

    3) I really like Ruggiano, who was drafted in the 25th round of the 2004 draft. Ruggiano was already 22 years old at the time of the draft so he was likely a DePodesta pick. In a little over a year in the system, Ruggiano has already been promoted to Jacksonville, though primarily due to need. Chin-Feng Chen's promotion to the majors led to a chain of outfield promotions throughout the Dodgers system. Nonetheless, Ruggiano was deserving with a .307/.394/.510 line in 241 ABs with Vero Beach. So far in Jacksonville, Ruggiano is 4 for 6 with a HR. Ruggiano is now 23 years old in AA, which is still a bit old, but his fast promotion path is allowing his age to catch up with his level. If Ruggiano continues to mash through AAA next year, he'll likely have a shot as a starter in 2006 and beyond. Unfortunately, his age doesn't give him the opportunity to repeat a level, so any backslide in his development could be disastrous.

    2005-07-09 08:49:52
    336.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
    >>It appears that age is more important than experience in terms of predicting initial impact, so this group could be sleeper candidates for this year and next.<<

    That's a bit surprising to me, in all due honesty. As a game that depends so much on specific skills, in addition to physical tools, I would think that experience would weigh more than age for players past most of their major physical development, which should be true for the vast majority of rookie minor leaguers.

    Then again, it's my understanding--very vague--that men don't reach their physical peak until 26, and perhaps that applies to things like hand-eye coordination, wrist strength, etc., which might explain the importance of age.

    The numbers are very interesting, and much thanks Fearing. I had suspicions that Billingsley and Guzman really wouldn't be ready until 2007, and those look like they've been borne out. So many Dodger fans had become tantalized by the prospect of Jackson possibly pitching even last season in the rotation that I think we (or at least, myself) had over-optimistic scenarios of Guzman and Billingsley being productive players as early as 2006.


    2005-07-09 12:11:18
    337.   Fearing Blue
    Minor League Update

    Las Vegas 51s (AAA):
    The 51s game against Portland was postponed due to rain.

    The game is scheduled to be played as part of a double-header tonight at 6:05pm PST.

    Jacksonville Suns (AA):
    The Suns beat Montgomery 2 - 1.

    Jacksonville's outfielders did the heavy lifting offensively. Center fielder Jon Weber went 1 for 3 with an RBI. Left fielder Tydus Meadows went 3 for 4 with a double and a run scored. Right fielder Justin Ruggiano went 2 for 2 with a hit-by-pitch, a run scored, and a stolen base. Ruggiano is now 4 for 6 in 2 games with the Suns. Catcher Russell Martin, third baseman Andy LaRoche, first baseman James Loney, and shortstop Joel Guzman each went 1 for 4 on the night. Second baseman Delwyn Young went 0 for 4.

    The Suns pitching in the game was spectacular. Edwin Jackson got the win, pitching 7 excellent innings allowing just 1 run (earned) on 5 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 7. Jackson's performance was especially impressive against a stacked Montgomery team. Jackson struck out top prospect Delmon Young twice on the night. Carlos Alvarez and Jonathan Broxton each pitched an inning of scoreless relief, with Broxton getting the save. Alvarez pitched a perfect inning, striking out 1. Broxton allowed 1 hit while striking out 2.

    Vero Beach Dodgers (High-A):
    The Dodgers lost 6 - 1 to Sarasota in a game that was called early due to rain.

    The Dodgers only run came on a solo shot by right fielder Matt Kemp, his 16th of the season. Kemp was also hit by a pitch and caught stealing on the night. The Dodgers only got two other hits, both singles, one each by designated-hitter Cory Dunlap and third baseman Jimmy Rohan.

    Starting pitcher Julio Pimentel had a horrible outing, giving up 6 runs (all earned) in 3 innings on 8 hits, while striking out 3. Orlando Rodriguez, a 24-year old left-hander, pitched two perfect innings of relief, striking out all 6 batters he faced.

    Columbus Catfish (Low-A):
    The Catfish lost 9 - 3 to Asheville.

    Backup shortstop Dominique Laurin hit his third homerun in the past week, a solo shot. Laurin went 1 for 3 on the night and walked once (.229/.275/.438). Right fielder Ryan Carter drove in the other 2 runs, going 2 for 4 with a solo homerun (.292/.358/.479). Carter was drafted in the 14th round of the 2001, and is only getting limited playing time, with 48 at-bats in 13 games. Designated-hitter Travis Denker and third baseman Blake Dewitt were each held hitless in 4 at-bats, with Denker striking out 3 times.

    Starting pitcher Zachary Hammes pitched poorly over 3.2 innings, allowing 9 runs (6 earned) on 7 hits (4 homeruns) and 4 walks. Jarod Plummer pitched 4.1 scoreless innings of relief, only allowing 2 hits while striking out 4. Plummer was demoted from Vero Beach around the same time Carlos Alvarez was promoted.

    Ogden Raptors (Rookie):
    The Raptors lost 8 - 5 to Casper.

    Third baseman Russell Mitchell was responsible for most of the Raptors offense. Mitchell went 2 for 4 with 2 homeruns and 4 RBIs (.325/.338/.675). The 2 homeruns raised Mitchell's Pioneer League-leading total to 7 on the short season. Unfortunately, Mitchell also made two errors on the night. Center fielder Adam Godwin went 2 for 4 with a run scored (.304/.407/.391).

    Kristopher Krise started the game for the Raptors and pitched poorly. Krise allowed 5 runs (3 earned) on 3 hits (1 homerun and 1 double) and 3 walks, while striking out 3. Krise, the Dodgers 12th round draft pick, has had a very rough start to his professional career, allowing 23 runs (19 earned) in 15.1 innings so far. Matthew Gomez de Segura received the loss, allowing 2 runs (both earned) in .2 innings. The only quality pitching performance was from 21-year old right-hander Alvin Hayes, who pitched 3 scoreless innings on 2 hits and 3 strikeouts.

    GCL Dodgers (Rookie):
    Minor league baseball doesn't have the boxscore data for the Dodgers game against the GCL Mets. It may have been rained out.

    2005-07-09 12:17:52
    338.   Fearing Blue
    #336: But how long do those skills take to develop relative to the physical development? My guess is that even with only a couple years of minor league experience, you can get the majority of the necessary skills to perform at the major league level. Most of these players have been playing this game their entire lives.

    Yhenzy Brazoban seems to be an example supporting this position. Yhency was an outfielder until age 22 years. At 22 years old, he had just started pitching and was ready to contribute a major league impact by age 24. Brazoban had only thrown 128.2 innings as a minor league reliever.

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