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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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July 23 Open Chat
2005-07-23 09:40
by Jon Weisman
Comments (379)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-07-23 09:53:45
1.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

July 23, 1912

A very bad Brooklyn team got a shutout from rookie lefthander Frank Allen to beat the second place Cubs at West Side Park, 6-0. The win improved Brooklyn's record to 32-55 and the team was 33 games behind the first place Giants in seventh place.

The Dodgers pounded out 10 hits and used 3 errors by the Cubs to produce their six runs. The Dodgers scored four runs in four innings off of Chicago starter Jim Moroney and added two more off of reliever Charlie Smith. After the game, Moroney was released. Apparently losing to Brooklyn that badly was grounds for termination in 1912.

The shutout was the high point of the season for Allen, who went 3-9 in his first season in the majors with a 3.63 ERA. He would go 4-18 the following year and 8-14 in 1914 before jumping to the Federal League. Allen had a 23-13 year in the 1915 Federal League pitching for Pittsburgh. He returned to the NL the next two years and was out of the majors at age 27.

The 1912 Brooklyn team had two good hitters in Zack Wheat, who batted .305 with 8 home runs, and Jake Daubert who batted .308 with 16 triples, which was only an incredible 20 triples fewer than league leader Owen Wilson of Pittsburgh who set a major league record for triples in a season with 36. Rookie Casey Stengel made his major league debut for Brooklyn and played in 17 games in September.

The pitching staff was not much to talk about, but what the heck. Southpaw Nap Rucker went 18-21 with a 2.21 ERA and led the NL with 6 shutouts. Pat Ragan was 7-18 with a 3.63 ERA.

When the dust settled, Brooklyn, under manager Bill Dahlen, finished 58-95 and were 46 games behind first place New York. Only the atrocious Boston Braves, who were 52-101, kept Brooklyn out of the cellar. Brooklyn appeared to be an aimless franchise drifting about in the lower reaches of the National League.

1912 would also be Brooklyn's last season at Washington Park. The home of the Dodgers from 1898 through 1912 was bounded by 1st and 3rd Streets on two sides and by 3rd and 4th Avenues on the other two. A picture of it can be seen here:
The next season owner Charles Ebbets was set to open a new park and he thought he had the perfect name for it. He'd call it Ebbets Field. Says it all doesn't it?

Thanks to New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-07-23 10:31:23
2.   overkill94
I have a feeling that Pedro's gonna throw his usual gem but that Houlton will almost match him and the Mets' bullpen will crumble, giving us the improbable 4-3 win. You heard it here first!
2005-07-23 10:44:26
3.   oldbear
The Padres traded Phil Nevin to the Orioles for Sidney Ponson....

How does this move help either team?

2005-07-23 10:45:10
4.   scanderbeg
Maybe it's the Three Game Win Streak talking, but does anyone else have faith that Houlton will go pitch for pitch with Pedro like he did against Clemens just before the All-Star break in Enron, I mean, Minute Maid Park?
2005-07-23 10:48:06
5.   Bob Timmermann
I'm puzzled by the trade of Nevin. I suppose the Padres think Nevin gets hurt too much. So that means Nady and Sweeney will be at first.

And Sidney Ponson comes back to the NL West. His stay in San Francisco was so memorable!

2005-07-23 10:53:48
6.   Bob Timmermann
Sidney Ponson has an ERA of 6.04 this year! Opposing batters get on base at a .385 clip against him!

I suppose that Kevin Towers feels that Ponson will give up lots of deep fly balls that will die on the warning track of PETCO.

2005-07-23 10:53:49
7.   oldbear
Xavier Nady being in the lineup helps the Padres more than Nevin.

However, I dont see how Ponson helps them? I suppose Ponson is better than the crap they've been sending out there for the 5th game (Stauffer, etc..)..

But this seems like a panic move to me.

Nevin always killed the Dodgers. Thats one less big bat to worry aobut, although I do like Xavier Nady.

2005-07-23 10:53:51
8.   the OZ
The Padres did well to get rid of Nevin. The problem is, they did as bad by acquiring Ponson. Are they planning on sticking Fick at 1B? I sense that the Padres aren't done shuffling pieces yet. Towers got booed during a pregame ceremony last year after the Dodgers acquired Finley, and I suspect he's looking to be a bit more "active" this season, especially with his mediocre team in first place.
2005-07-23 10:55:52
9.   Bob Timmermann
The ESPN story says that Nevin does have the right to veto a trade to some teams, one of them being Baltimore.
2005-07-23 10:56:06
10.   bokonon42
"Buster Olney reports that Nevin has a limited no-trade clause and he hasn't approved the deal yet. The Orioles are on the list of teams he does not want to be traded to."
2005-07-23 10:56:58
11.   the OZ
Ah, Nady at 1B. I hadn't thought of that.

Has Nevin waived his limited no-trade? He can veto a trade to Baltimore is he so chooses.

2005-07-23 10:57:51
12.   the OZ
OK, too late.
2005-07-23 10:58:31
13.   scanderbeg
Does anyone remember when Vin Scully said that Padres management believed that Xavier Nady was destined for the Hall of Fame?
2005-07-23 10:58:35
14.   bokonon42
I'm going to have business cards printed up saying: Only fourteen seconds slower than Bob Timmermann!
2005-07-23 11:05:23
15.   bokonon42
ESPN is saying the Ponson/Nevin deal kills the Burnett one. Does that make any sense? O's looking for a SP don't need one now that they have Nevin?
2005-07-23 11:07:34
16.   the OZ
Weaver or Odalis for Penn and somebody: perhaps more likely?

I'd still prefer to keep Odalis, only because average starters are tough to get on the open market. Who would replace him in the rotation next year?

2005-07-23 11:11:24
17.   bokonon42
Penn and Somebody (and somebody else)to Cincinati for Dunn?
2005-07-23 11:19:48
18.   the OZ
A prospoect retrospective about Werth on John Sickel's site:

"In the minors, Werth showed good plate discipline most of the time, and a major power spike at age 22, following the trade to Toronto. He looked like a future star at one point. Although that hasn't panned out, he should have a long career."

There's much more at the link, especially about Werth's early career as a catcher and a swing change that led to more loft.

2005-07-23 11:21:00
19.   gvette
Too bad for Derek Thompson having to undergo his second Tommy John surgery.

If the poor guy doesn't make it back to the bigs, he will always have to remember how Scott Erickson's incompetence cost him his best shot at his first win. Hope Scott takes time out of his busy schedule in the bullpen to send the kid a get well card.

2005-07-23 11:21:27
20.   overkill94
The Padres made another deal by acquiring Joe Randa today, looks like the Sean Burroughs era is over in San Diego. I guess Randa could help the team with his doubles power, although I don't see him hitting many out of Petco.
2005-07-23 11:26:00
21.   Steve
Joe Randa - Great American Bandbox = Sean Burroughs. They didn't give up anything to get him though. Neither deal is aggressively, Sabean-level bad.
2005-07-23 11:26:13
22.   bokonon42
What if the Nevin/Ponson deal is phoney? O's trying to psyche Florida out of insisting on piggy-backing Lowell on the Burnett deal. Maybe they know that Nevin won't consent to the trade.
2005-07-23 11:28:20
23.   Bob Timmermann
Randa still will be better than Sean Burroughs. He seemed to be buried on San Diego's bench. Starting Geoff Blum in front of you, can't help your self-esteem.
2005-07-23 11:30:48
24.   overkill94
Apparently the Padres had to give up two prospects to get Randa, there is debate whether any of their blue-chippers were included.
2005-07-23 11:31:52
25.   overkill94
Yay, Milton's back!

1. Robles
2. Izturis
3. Bradley
4. Kent
5. Ledee
6. Saenz
7. Werth
8. Phillips
9. Houlton

Not sure why Choi got benched after such a good performance yesterday, but I'm not surprised given Tracy's weird ways.

2005-07-23 11:34:09
26.   Bob Timmermann
With Pedro Martinez starting, I doubt Choi is complaining too much about sitting this one out.
2005-07-23 11:35:21
27.   overkill94
The Saenz over Choi decision is even more puzzling given that Saenz is 2-12 lifetime against Pedro and his splits for righties and lefties is .151/.208. Oh well, I didn't really expect either of them to do anything against Pedro.
2005-07-23 11:36:40
28.   alex 7
I have more faith in Choi than Saenz vs a righty, even Pedro. And what a wasted opportunity to give Choi a great development opportunity. Four at-bats to see him adjust vs the game's best. But I guess we're kinda back in it so oh well.
2005-07-23 11:36:46
29.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers vs. Pedro Martinez
Bradley 1 for 4
Dessens 1 for 1
Izturis 0 for 2
Kent 4 for 25, 1 HR
Ledee 3 for 20
A Perez 3 for 8
Saenz 2 for 12, 1 HR
2005-07-23 11:39:16
30.   the OZ
Pedro's fingers are really long. Choi has trouble against long-fingered pitchers.
2005-07-23 11:39:42
31.   brendan glynn
I don't know if Bob or someone else can help me.

I have a lineup card from a game between LA and Houston Astros. Can't be older than 1980 because the starters for the respective teams are Don Sutton and J.R. Richard. I tried looking it up on retro sheet but it didn't help. should be a game in Houston

here are the lineups

Russell (North replaced)
Sutton, Davalillo, Hough

Watson(replaced by Berman)

if someone can find the boxscore or can give me details where to find it, I would appreciate it. I'm not sure if this is a tough request so I apologize if it is.

2005-07-23 11:40:10
32.   alex 7
nice article on Werth, thanks for the link Oz. I was hoping to see HOW the Blue Jays added loft to his swing. That's something I've always wanted to know in order to teach it. Those are decent names he's compared to at the end of the article.
2005-07-23 11:41:35
33.   Bob Timmermann
August 9, 1978

2005-07-23 11:42:05
34.   Bob Timmermann
Whoops. It's July 9, 1978. The link is correct.
2005-07-23 11:43:17
35.   brendan glynn
Geez Bob you are amazing. I've been look for hours. thank you
2005-07-23 11:44:10
36.   brendan glynn
obvious I'm not familar with how to use retrosheet
2005-07-23 11:45:29
37.   Bob Timmermann
If you got to Retrosheet, you can look up individual players and then look up how they did every day. The tipoff was the fact that Bill North was in the game and he was only on the Dodgers for one year.

Without looking, I was almost positive that the Dodgers lost the game. They could never beat J.R. Richard. He owned the Dodgers.

2005-07-23 11:46:59
38.   bokonon42
This Week in Baseball profiling Palmeiro's 3000th. I didn't know Rick Dempsey was the first base coach for the O's. I used to hate Dempsey for playing Olmedo to Mike Scioscia's Choi. You know, if Choi weren't good. Scioscia was my favorite player, when I was a kid, even though he didn't hit much. Or throw out runners. Whatever the next level past scrappy is, Scioscia was it. It's a relatively tiny part of the game, but he was great at blocking the plate, and hanging on to the ball after a collision. And when I was eight, that was the coolest part of the game.
2005-07-23 11:54:03
39.   Bob Timmermann
Scioscia transcended scrappy also because he got on base a lot. In 1985, he had an OBP of .407, which was second in the NL behind Guerrero's .422.
2005-07-23 11:56:24
40.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres and the Phillies have the same record now: 50-47. Yet the Padres are buyers and many think the Phillies should be sellers.

Ahh, the vagaries of the divisions

2005-07-23 11:57:33
41.   brendan glynn

I remember that. JR owned them. That is why I was thrilled as a kid when Dusty hit #30 off of him in the last game of the season in 1977 to complete the 4 teammates with 30Hr

(At least that is the way I remember it listening to Vinny on the radio)

2005-07-23 11:59:11
42.   bokonon42
39- Yeah, but that was his one really good year, and I was five. The rest of his stats look Izturis-y.
2005-07-23 12:01:19
43.   brendan glynn

He took Gooden deep in 88 playoffs to tie the game and keep mets from going up 3 games to one. He has a Pass with me. he had such warning track power, he would have hit 50 in wrigley.

2005-07-23 12:01:47
44.   LAT
Fox says Padres denying the Nevin deal exists.
2005-07-23 12:03:50
45.   bokonon42
Steve has to be biting a bullet, letting all this Scioscia suck-uppery go by unexploded.
2005-07-23 12:04:17
46.   LAT
Repko should be glad MB comes back today. He would whiff 4-5 times today against Pedro
2005-07-23 12:05:52
47.   brendan glynn

I should have realized it had to be 1978 because of North and Lacy was in reserve on the lineup card. he went to pirates the next year.

2005-07-23 12:06:14
48.   brendan glynn
2005-07-23 12:06:37
49.   Marty
Kevin Kennedy just said he thought Nevin might end up on the Dodgers in a Weaver trade with the O's because the Dodgers "need a first baseman"
2005-07-23 12:07:18
50.   Bob Timmermann
Scioscia had a career OPS+ of 99.
Izturis coming into this season has an OPS+ of 70.

An OPS+ of 100 is average.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-07-23 12:09:42
51.   Steve
I liked Scioscia when I was a kid. We really only truly hate those that betray us.
2005-07-23 12:10:11
52.   Bob Timmermann
Apparently Kevin Kennedy thinks the Dodgers are going to have four potential first basemen on the roster then (Choi, Saenz, Nevin, and Kent).

Why would the Padres make a late season trade with one of the teams chasing them? The Dodgers and Padres have made a grand total of two trades.


In 37 years. And one of them was because Jim Bruske ticked off Tommy Lasorda so he sent him to the Padres for a minor leaguer who never made it. Then Bruske made it to the Yankees later in 1998. He was one lucky guy that year.

2005-07-23 12:10:17
53.   bokonon42
50- Huh. So all this time I've been feeling like a Moneyball sell-out for having loved Scioscia so dearly, and he really wasn't that bad?
2005-07-23 12:10:43
54.   Dodgerkid
Has anyone heard any trade rumors for the Dodgers this season? Are we buyers or sellers?
2005-07-23 12:11:14
55.   brendan glynn

what is Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Russell respctive OPS+?

I bet Regie Smith had a high OPS+

2005-07-23 12:11:20
56.   Bob Timmermann
Like Joe Morgan, Scioscia doesn't seem to realize that a team like today's Oakland Athletics would love a catcher like him.
2005-07-23 12:12:49
57.   Bob Timmermann
Reggie Smith 137
Ron Cey 121
Steve Garvey 116
Davey Lopes 106
Bill Russell 82
2005-07-23 12:12:57
58.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 54

Weaver's being heavily scouted, and I think we still get mentioned in the list of names looking for Dunn. But we've definitely been off the radar screen, although that means nothing with DePo. He seems to like lightning strikes out of the blue.


2005-07-23 12:12:58
59.   rageon
What happened to the Reds asking for such an absurd deal to get Randa? Rumor has it, the price for him wasn't that much different that Dunn. So why do I now see Randa traded for junk? Using a couple really quick reference points, neither guy made Rotoworld's mid-season top 150, and Sickels had the two of them a B and C+. So they basically gave him away.

How F'ing dumb is Cincinatti anyways?

I think we need to go and get Adam Dunn right now, before San Diego finds some way to acquire him for next to nothing as well.

2005-07-23 12:13:03
60.   bokonon42
Speaking of betrayal, did Scioscia really never play a game with the Padres? I remember he signed with them, but he didn't end up playing?
2005-07-23 12:14:13
61.   Dodgerkid
I believe he blew out his knee in spring training for the Padres.
2005-07-23 12:14:40
62.   brendan glynn

interesting. thanks

2005-07-23 12:15:09
63.   Dodgerkid
We should a bet to see who gets traded regardless if whether we are sellers or buyers. I'm predicting Antonio Perez gets traded.
2005-07-23 12:17:27
64.   brendan glynn
God, it is good to see Milton
2005-07-23 12:18:22
65.   Benaiah
Bradley... I am just so happy to have you back!
2005-07-23 12:19:32
66.   Benaiah
Didn't take Pedro long to blow the perfect game.
2005-07-23 12:19:32
67.   LAT
Could use a run or two here. Not going to have too many opportunities like this
2005-07-23 12:21:11
68.   Benaiah
How did Mike Cameron get Bradley on a force?
2005-07-23 12:21:17
69.   LAT
There we go. One more please
2005-07-23 12:21:42
70.   the OZ
Great. Now we've just made Pedro mad.
2005-07-23 12:22:21
71.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Dodgers should have brought back Delino DeShields for this game.
2005-07-23 12:23:17
72.   the OZ
2005-07-23 12:23:27
73.   brendan glynn
Thank you!!!!!
2005-07-23 12:23:33
74.   Benaiah
Can anyone tell me how Bradley made out on Kent's GB to the RF?
2005-07-23 12:23:41
75.   LAT
Who knew it was Christmas?
2005-07-23 12:24:20
76.   brendan glynn
FC 2nd baseman dropped the pop up and Bradley forced at second
2005-07-23 12:24:38
77.   bokonon42
74- It wasn't a GB, it was a dropped fly ball, the first of two the Mets committed this inning.
2005-07-23 12:24:58
78.   LAT
Lyons says he thinks they are scoring that a double. Oh Please.
2005-07-23 12:24:58
79.   the OZ
Dropped popup, Bradley had to hold at 1B and then was forced at 2B when the ball wasn't fielded on the fly.
2005-07-23 12:25:19
80.   Benaiah
75 - Ha I was thinking the same thing! Happy birthday to me!
2005-07-23 12:26:01
81.   Bob Timmermann
Gameday has it as a double. Was it a misplay?
2005-07-23 12:26:27
82.   Benaiah
79 - That makes sense, on Gameday it said it was a ground ball which made no sense. I figured unless Bradley got hurt and was laying in the basepath between first and second no way anyone gets thrown out on a GB to RF.
2005-07-23 12:26:30
83.   brendan glynn
76 was for 74

then beltran dropped Olmedo's fly on the warning track

2005-07-23 12:26:56
84.   Marty
Beltran lost it in the sun at the last minute it seems
2005-07-23 12:27:19
85.   bokonon42
81- Absolutely. I'm sure it's sunny, but both those pop-ups should have been caught.
2005-07-23 12:27:43
86.   Bob Timmermann
Gameday has to record those dropped pop ups as ground balls, because I don't think their software allows for anything else.
2005-07-23 12:28:19
87.   brendan glynn

yeah, he lost it in the wind and stumbled back and fell in front of beltran.

2005-07-23 12:28:58
88.   brendan glynn
wind and sun, i guess
2005-07-23 12:29:40
89.   Marty
Nice reaction by Old Maid on the bunt.
2005-07-23 12:30:28
90.   brendan glynn
LA pitched out and then they bounced the throw, reyes to third.

Oh, it's going to be one of those games today

2005-07-23 12:30:51
91.   Bob Timmermann
See, now we don't have to worry about Reyes stealing third!
2005-07-23 12:32:08
92.   Bob Timmermann
Phil Nevin would have fielded the bunt.
2005-07-23 12:33:58
93.   Christina
Afternoon all - I'm afraid I overslept, but I see it's still only the first inning anyway. Finally a game that's showing on TV up here!
2005-07-23 12:34:07
94.   FirstMohican
Re Nevin & Ponson

Perhaps teams have had interest in Mora, and may use Nevin as a replacement at 3B.

As for the Padres... they get to play Nady and get to take a chance on Ponson.

2005-07-23 12:34:14
95.   Marty
Nobody is going to catch a ball this game
2005-07-23 12:35:43
96.   Benaiah
Geez every single is a double this year. Phillips throw anyone out!
2005-07-23 12:36:32
97.   LAT
This game is a comedy of errors. Its one of those games the feels like no one wants to win and won't be over until it over. Mets hitting the ball hard against DJ
2005-07-23 12:37:36
98.   brendan glynn
bradley nearly dropped that ball. every ball has a chance to drop in because of wind and sun
2005-07-23 12:38:03
99.   Bob Timmermann
I think we need to keep in mind that DJ Houlton is all that good.
2005-07-23 12:38:38
100.   brendan glynn

wow. must have been a great night.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-07-23 12:39:37
101.   Bob Timmermann
I meant to say is not all that good.
2005-07-23 12:40:51
102.   overkill94
Well, Rotoworld likes the trade for the Reds. Apparently the Chick guy has the potential to be a pretty good starter.
2005-07-23 12:41:36
103.   overkill94
Now that is what you call a seeing-eye single
2005-07-23 12:42:00
104.   the OZ
The Mets have 2 runs and haven't put the ball safely out of the infield.
2005-07-23 12:42:03
105.   Bob Timmermann
BTW, Phil Nevin is starting at first base today for the Padres.
2005-07-23 12:42:28
106.   LAT
This is crap the way they are getting these cheap runs. At least we earned ours-)
2005-07-23 12:44:02
107.   Bob Timmermann
And Sean Burroughs is not listed on the Padres roster on Gameday.
2005-07-23 12:44:18
108.   LAT
What is taking Wright so long. He should have stolen 2b and 3b by now.
2005-07-23 12:44:56
109.   Christina
Considering how this game is going, it has the potential to beat out, time-wise, the As's-Rangers 14-inning marathon I was at last Sunday. That game would have been very long even if it hadn't gone into extra innings, because both pitchers had a ridiculously high pitch count in the first couple of innings. Something like 67 and 55 ptiches apiece for them. The Dodgers-Giants game started like 45 minutes later, and bypassed the A's game before the end of the 3rd inning.
2005-07-23 12:45:13
110.   rageon
#102 - I think my hidden point was that LA has about two-dozen guys with as much potential as he does. I would have been all-for picking up Randa for such a small price, only a trade him again in a week when crazy teams start to get desperate.

Something else from Rotoworld's analysis:

"Chick has been a disappointment this year, going 2-9 with a 5.27 ERA, 109 H and 92/40 K/BB in 97 1/3 IP for Double-A Mobile"

2005-07-23 12:48:10
111.   LAT
Anyone else, you, me, my mom, could have beaten that out.
2005-07-23 12:48:19
112.   Christina
A .273 average for DJ? Wow.
2005-07-23 12:49:04
113.   Christina
And of course he promptly K's.
2005-07-23 12:49:26
114.   rageon
From Rosenthal's column, a quote by Nevin's agent regarding approving the trade....

"Phil doesn't want to go anywhere," Axelrod told TSN. "He's from this area. He's building a new home in San Diego. He has three children in school here. His parents attend a good portion of the games -- they live 80 or 90 miles up the road. San Diego is where he wants to be."

....In agent-speak, this is called "Getting an extra year added to my contract, or at least a million bucks or so, in exchange for me not messing up your plans, and having to keep someone who knows you don't want."

2005-07-23 13:02:49
115.   Christina
God, it's so good to have Bradley back.
2005-07-23 13:06:37
116.   Bob Timmermann
Granted it's just the Rockies, but Jason Jennings broke a finger and will miss the rest of the season. Which likely means that the Rockies will stand pat with their pitching staff as it is now.

Which should be good news for Giants and Dodgers fans since their team likely won't finish last now no matter what.

2005-07-23 13:07:47
117.   Benaiah
Did Beltran pull a Bad News bears play out there? It seems like that ball should have been caught by Floyd.
2005-07-23 13:10:09
118.   Bob Timmermann
Don't even bother with a pitchout this time please!
2005-07-23 13:10:19
119.   overkill94
Man, the god of cheap pop-fly hits is quite appeased today, someone must have sacrificed a texas leaguer.
2005-07-23 13:11:02
120.   Christina
It seems like that fly ball could have been caught if the fielders hadn't had to slow up to avoid crashing into each other. I just replayed it three times and Bradley in particular could have gotten it for sure.
2005-07-23 13:11:11
121.   Steve
I'll take the under.
2005-07-23 13:12:13
122.   Steve
Carlos Beltran has been reduced to bunting. I think we can safely say that the Mets screwed up that contract.
2005-07-23 13:12:27
123.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets fans at Baseball Primer have imploded over Beltran sacrificing.
2005-07-23 13:13:14
124.   capdodger
OK... So the Mets scored anyway, but a sac bunt with Carlos Beltran?
2005-07-23 13:14:45
125.   Steve
If Houlton can't get out of this, I never want to see him again.
2005-07-23 13:15:59
126.   Christina
Guess you'll be willing to see him for at least one more inning, Steve. :)
2005-07-23 13:16:01
127.   overkill94
Chase strikes again! 1-0 Phillies
2005-07-23 13:16:16
128.   Bob Timmermann
Phillies lead 1-0 on an Utley homer.
2005-07-23 13:16:33
129.   Steve

Two on nobody out, the heart of the lineup coming up, and one lousy run. Enjoy your 120 million dollar Kenny Lofton clone, Mets fans.

2005-07-23 13:16:57
130.   Jim Hitchcock
He never calls you anymore anyway, Steve :)
2005-07-23 13:18:41
131.   Benaiah
129 - Well the fact that they made him bunt was a bonus. I guess when the gods spared them after Cameron's bunt they decided to tempt fate.
2005-07-23 13:19:13
132.   capdodger
Wow, that was a great way to short circut an inning.

Lucky for us many of the other managers are just as dumb as JT.

2005-07-23 13:19:49
133.   Kilgore Trout
129 - I know he's having a bad year, but Kenny Lofton?
2005-07-23 13:21:07
134.   capdodger
For those of you watching on TV:

Was the first pitch Werth took a Fastball down the middle? Gameday had it exactly in the center of the zone.

2005-07-23 13:21:35
135.   Christina
And just as Steve is gleefully bashing Beltran...

Beltran doesn't exactly prove him wrong. Whee!

2005-07-23 13:22:50
136.   Christina
Yeah Phillips!

I officially take back what I was secretly thinking about how I wished the Dodgers had the other catcher named Jason today - Jason Kendall.

2005-07-23 13:23:49
137.   overkill94
Funny how Lyons is making fun of Pedro for not striking guys out when he leads the NL in strikeouts.
2005-07-23 13:26:06
138.   Christina
134 - I just rewound and took a look. It is right down the middle of the plate, but what is odd is that Werth was standing so close to the plate that to him, it was more of an inside pitch that would have jammed him up.
2005-07-23 13:27:01
139.   Benaiah
Pedro is not looking good out there, he keeps getting behind in counts. Hopefully the Dodgers hang a run or two more on him and we can get to the Met's bullpen!
2005-07-23 13:27:17
140.   Jim Hitchcock
Man, that Pedro vs. Koufax graph was depressing.
2005-07-23 13:27:47
141.   Christina
Dammit, Izzy. Couldn't you have repeated last Saturday's hit instead?

At least we did get the go-ahead run.

2005-07-23 13:27:51
142.   capdodger
138 - Thanks. Fox has Cardinals-Cubs on here in DC, so Gameday is all I've got.
2005-07-23 13:30:24
143.   Benaiah
140 - Did Pedro compare favorably with him? His career has already lasted longer, and I know that in his peak years he must have been as close to Koufax at least.
2005-07-23 13:31:29
144.   Steve
Jerry Hairston clone?
2005-07-23 13:31:48
145.   Jim Hitchcock
Pedro had him beat in every category.
2005-07-23 13:32:13
146.   Benaiah
Meanwhile, Rolen is hurt for the year and Pujols apparently has hurt his shoulder. While it may seem wrong to be happy about this (especially because I love Pujols) I have to hope that he stays out until after we face the Cards next week.
2005-07-23 13:33:21
147.   Benaiah
145 - Career numbers or what?
2005-07-23 13:36:40
148.   Jim Hitchcock
147 - Yes. Wins alone he had Koufax beat by about 30, with 8 or so less losses.
2005-07-23 13:36:42
149.   Steve
Brady Clark clone?

Are Mets fans aware that their manager is complete blithering idiot? I did a little research and discovered that at least on the blogosphere, Nats fans are in fact aware that Frank Robinson is an idiot. I wonder if the same is true of Mets fans.

2005-07-23 13:38:36
150.   Christina
5-pitch fifth for Pedro. Did the Dodgers decide to feel sorry for him or something?

149 - I don't know about Mets fans, but Angels fans are certainly in denial about Scioscia.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-07-23 13:39:19
151.   Benaiah
Koufax's career numbers aren't what you look at though, since he had to quit so young. Also, Koufax didn't have the Red Sox offense behind. Sorry if it seems like I am being argumentative, but to me Pedro is brilliant, but Koufax was divine.
2005-07-23 13:40:34
152.   Jim Hitchcock
151 - Understand. It's more a thing of what could have been, to me.
2005-07-23 13:41:17
153.   Steve
151 -- I think it's pretty close, but I wouldn't have traded Sandy Koufax for Delino DeShields.
2005-07-23 13:42:05
154.   Benaiah
152 - Yeah it definately would have made a big difference in the 90s.
2005-07-23 13:42:30
155.   Steve
That's a Grabowski Principle.

Derrek Lee just hit a home run.

2005-07-23 13:42:39
156.   capdodger
Gabs Principle?
2005-07-23 13:46:20
157.   capdodger
So long as he doesn't score, I don't really mind Pedro standing out on base for a whole inning.
2005-07-23 13:48:05
158.   overkill94
Well, Pedro and Koufax had almost identical innings pitched, but I think Pedro has pitched in more games since Koufax probably went deeper into games. Still very impressive though, especially considering the eras they play(ed) in.
2005-07-23 13:49:55
159.   jtshoe
DJ has only had I believe 8 starts this year, but he needs to get over the first inning. Is it mental? He seems like a different pitcher. Maybe its too small of a sample size, but only in his first two starts did he not yeild a run in the first inning. This is a quick check, but through the fifth inning today, his first inning ERA is 14.63 and his ERA in starts after the first is 3.25.
2005-07-23 13:51:00
160.   Christina
2005-07-23 13:52:11
161.   alex 7
Choi's ticked. It's weird rooting for him yet not wanting him to do so well that Choi sits against righties now more often.
2005-07-23 13:52:26
162.   Steve
We avoid the GP then Olmedo takes Pedro deep? Wacky!
2005-07-23 13:52:29
163.   Christina
That was possibly the most ridiculous-looking swinging strike I've ever seen.
2005-07-23 13:52:56
164.   Benaiah
Yes! Pedro is a different man in the 6th and 7th innings! Not to waiver for a moment in my support for Choi, but playing Saenz didn't exactly backfire.
2005-07-23 13:52:58
165.   capdodger
The LA Times headlines tommorrow: (Win)"Saenz Pointing Up For Dodgers" or (Loss) "Mixed Saenz for Dodgers"
2005-07-23 13:54:01
166.   Langhorne
Olmedo Mia!
2005-07-23 13:55:14
167.   overkill94
Wow did he so not tag him
2005-07-23 13:55:29
168.   alex 7
oh wait, trade value! Who wants this beastly 1B/DH on their team crushing HRs off MLBs best pitchers?? All it takes is..., what do the Dodgers need? A catcher? The more I keep typing about trades, the harder it is to pigeonhole what exactly the Dodgers would get for guys like Saenz/Izturis/Braz that would make much sense. Stop gap 3B? I think Robles is good enough for that. OF? Is Werth that bad? SP? Nothing worthwhile for the names mentioned above. I guess those names added with a Weaver might get us a big prize.
2005-07-23 13:56:04
169.   Langhorne
What was that call?!
2005-07-23 13:56:08
170.   Steve
I hope the Mets are happy with that run they scrappily got home in the third.
2005-07-23 13:58:20
171.   Jim Hitchcock
169 - Out by vicinity.
2005-07-23 13:58:24
172.   capdodger
Was there a bad call?
2005-07-23 13:59:24
173.   Christina
170 - let's not go overboard on the Met taunting just yet.
2005-07-23 13:59:51
174.   overkill94
Gotta have a quick hook here, I'd pull him if he gives up another baserunner or even a guy hits him hard. Dessens could be a nice 2-inning stopper.
2005-07-23 14:01:40
175.   overkill94
Has all this smallball led anyone to change their views on bunting yet? The Mets sure have manufactured a few runs.
2005-07-23 14:01:42
176.   capdodger
Darn... No quality start for the Rule 5 pick.
2005-07-23 14:01:47
177.   Steve
Why? So they win? They beat DJ Houlton? Great. They must be contenders.
2005-07-23 14:02:16
178.   Steve
175 -- In the third they gave up about four runs to get one.
2005-07-23 14:02:53
179.   Benaiah
No way either Pedro or DJ goes out in the 6th.
2005-07-23 14:03:14
180.   alex 7
Could you imagine this board if Willie was our manager? As if a LF hitter doesn't have a high enough chance of simply pulling a ground ball to the right side.
2005-07-23 14:05:19
181.   Benaiah
that was supposed to be 7th and yet it would still be incorrect. How do you let a pitcher with 98 pitches, who has already given up 5 pitch the 7th?
2005-07-23 14:06:34
182.   Christina
And now Bradley bunts.
2005-07-23 14:06:34
183.   overkill94
How'd they give up 4 runs? They had 1st and 2nd with nobody out. Unless you're assuming a hit parade was coming, they at least did get the one over. How many times have we feebly wasted a similar situation?

Unfortunately, hardly anyone on our team knows how to bunt so it makes it hard for Buntermaker.

And as I type this bradley gets a bunt hit, who knew.

2005-07-23 14:06:40
184.   Benaiah
Why is Bradley bunting? What is going on Tracy?
2005-07-23 14:07:02
185.   capdodger
C'mon Jeff... Put a charge in one.
2005-07-23 14:07:16
186.   Steve
We wants Graves! We wants Graves!
2005-07-23 14:08:02
187.   Benaiah
SD is 3 innings from their fifth straight loss by the way. If they lose today they will only be 2 games over 500.
2005-07-23 14:08:19
188.   Christina
And a slide into first. Sigh.
2005-07-23 14:08:23
189.   alex 7
because Pedro has more say on that team than Willie.
2005-07-23 14:08:40
190.   weatherman
Who fielded Bradley's bunt?
2005-07-23 14:08:46
191.   capdodger
Yes... We are assuming a hit parade was coming. Houlton seems to struggle in the early innings, and they had 3-4-5 coming up.
2005-07-23 14:08:52
192.   Jim Hitchcock
Now I'm convinced Kent had a Super Slide when he was a kid.
2005-07-23 14:09:44
193.   alex 7
overkill, they had their $100+ million dollar #3 hitter coming up, not Jason Repko.
2005-07-23 14:11:27
194.   Steve
183 -- and Bradley died on first where he belonged.

If you can't figure out that Carlos Beltran should never ever be bunting in that particular situation, I can't help you. Or Willie Randolph.

2005-07-23 14:11:46
195.   Benaiah
Gio? Why not Alverez/Sanchez/Schmoll? Tracy what are you trying to prove?
2005-07-23 14:12:21
196.   joekings
So he can walk the lead off guy on 4 pitches.
2005-07-23 14:12:27
197.   overkill94
2005-07-23 14:12:29
198.   capdodger
Were any of Gio's pitches even close?
2005-07-23 14:12:36
199.   Steve
2005-07-23 14:13:35
200.   Christina
Alvarez and Sanchez now warming up.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-07-23 14:13:40
201.   micktissue
I figured out why Steiner et al make me glad I have Gameday so I don't have to listen to them.

I'm so use to Vin telling me a story, committing to telling me a story, that when anyone else talks about the game, it's no longer a story.

Instead we have Steiner's awkward interpretation of the descriptions rather than the story. His funky hyperbole is sometimes funny, but it leaves me wanting. When he loses the rhythm of the game is the worst ("What the $%#@ is happening?!").

Monday is (again) from the John Miller school of making-everything-sound-interesting-even-when-it's-just-indigestion school of broadcasting which makes everything he says inherently uninteresting.

2005-07-23 14:15:52
202.   overkill94
Obviously Beltran shouldn't be bunting, I also thought that was a strange move, but all the other bunts have led to cheap runs. Plus, you can never assume hits are coming.

Re 184: managers never call a "bunt for a hit", Bradley definitely did that on his own.

2005-07-23 14:16:16
203.   joekings
Nice move bringning Gio in Tracy.
2005-07-23 14:16:31
204.   overkill94
I really really really really really really really really really don't like Carrara anymore
2005-07-23 14:16:48
205.   Christina
Okay, what was Reyes doing even swinging at that? Let alone getting a game-tying triple off it!
2005-07-23 14:18:08
206.   Steve
Plus, you can never assume hits are coming.

That's why you don't bunt. You need as many chances as possible to deliver run-scoring hits.

Jose Reyes bunting was valueless. Jose Reyes with a game tying triple, standing at third base with no one out and DFA Carrara on the mound, has a lot of value.

2005-07-23 14:18:28
207.   overkill94
Time for Alvarez to work his Beltran-dominating magic again. Unless they squeeze of course :)
2005-07-23 14:18:56
208.   Bob Timmermann
Jose Reyes swings at just about anything. He has only 14 walks this season.
2005-07-23 14:18:57
209.   Steve
I would like to, on behalf of all Dodger fans, thank Mike Cameron for being an idiot.
2005-07-23 14:19:44
210.   overkill94
I don't think any rules of scoring runs should be used when Carrara is involved.
2005-07-23 14:19:46
211.   Benaiah
Ugh Tracy sickens me. Two innings left in a one run game and he goes to a glorified mop up man.
"Alot of our guys pitched last night, and Gio was depressed that he had pitched in awhile. Is the win more important than his self confidence? Yes. But, is it possible to make everyone feel good and win? I like to think so."
2005-07-23 14:20:10
212.   Bob Timmermann
This is hoping for a lot from Alvarez if Tracy thinks he will get Beltran out again without the runner from 3rd scoring.
2005-07-23 14:20:46
213.   joekings
wow, that was quick.
2005-07-23 14:20:57
214.   overkill94
and this was shaping up to be such a good day...

It would have been nice if Pedro had just dominated us like we thought he would.

2005-07-23 14:21:05
215.   Bob Timmermann
As I said, it was a lot to ask.
2005-07-23 14:21:38
216.   Steve
Alvarez remains, as he has been since April, this year's Hideo Nomo.
2005-07-23 14:21:49
217.   Benaiah
Sob. Tracy gives this one away. I am still holding out hope for the last two innings, but to score five on Pedro and still be losing is tough to handle.
2005-07-23 14:23:07
218.   capdodger
Pedro's out. He was pinch hit for to lead off this inning.
2005-07-23 14:23:25
219.   Bob Timmermann
See, everyone is back to complaing about Tracy's relief pitcher use pattern. It's a sign that it's May again!
2005-07-23 14:23:32
220.   weatherman
Some people should not be confident in them selves. I have no confidence in myself as a major league pitcher. There are good reasons why I am not a major league pitcher. For those same reasons, Carrara probably shouldn't be one either, his own self confidence be d---ed.
2005-07-23 14:23:50
221.   Steve
Please tell me Danny Graves is warming up.
2005-07-23 14:24:58
222.   Steve
If the name on the uniform doesn't rhyme with "Troll," I don't want to see him coming out of the dugout.
2005-07-23 14:25:37
223.   overkill94
We really need to replace Phillips next year, he's never even close to throwing guys out.
2005-07-23 14:26:13
224.   Benaiah
Oh god, we are walking Floyd to get to David Wright. Oh the humanity.
2005-07-23 14:26:28
225.   Steve
Does Tracy go to Erickson to get the "ground ball?"
2005-07-23 14:27:00
226.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
If we can get out of this inning, we're still talking about the Mets bullpen, here. We aren't dead yet...

Of course, this all assumes Sanchez can get us out of this.


2005-07-23 14:28:03
227.   Bob Timmermann

You were saying?

2005-07-23 14:28:05
228.   Benaiah
224 - YES! I was wrong and I am so happy about it!
2005-07-23 14:28:07
229.   capdodger
Hey... Not bad for Duaner. Two pitches, two outs.
2005-07-23 14:28:08
230.   overkill94
As scary as Sanchez has been this year, I would definitely go to him before Carrara in the 7th.
2005-07-23 14:28:46
231.   Bob Timmermann
I believe 224 is a variation of the Kreuter Effect.
2005-07-23 14:28:49
232.   Steve
The stolen base backfires.
2005-07-23 14:29:34
233.   Bob Timmermann
Still 2-0 Phillies in the 8th.
2005-07-23 14:30:58
234.   capdodger
I don't know that I'd say it backfired. Cliff Floyd could have GIDPed just as easily.
2005-07-23 14:32:11
235.   Benaiah
226 - Mets bullpen is better then our bullpen. This guy Hernadez Ks nearly a batter an inning and has a 1.6 ERA in 40 appearences, the equivalent pitcher on our team is... Sanchez?
2005-07-23 14:32:57
236.   capdodger
Now the question is: When will Tracy send Choi in to pinch hit and strike out, thus ignoring Choi's history as a PH.
2005-07-23 14:33:15
237.   Steve
234 -- They could have given him a chance to, at least.
2005-07-23 14:34:40
238.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume that Choi will bat when Sanchez's spot comes up.
2005-07-23 14:36:26
239.   Benaiah
238 - I would prefer Perez, Choi is a god awful pinch hitter.
2005-07-23 14:38:50
240.   Bob Timmermann
If there's a runner on and the Dodgers are down by one, it might be Perez. But if it's 5-4 and one out and nobody on, I would think Tracy would go for the instant jackpot style of Choi.
2005-07-23 14:41:05
241.   Steve
2005-07-23 14:41:24
242.   Bob Timmermann
The key of course is still being down by one run.
2005-07-23 14:42:12
243.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Steve Schmoll is in New York City.
2005-07-23 14:42:54
244.   micktissue
Other than Schmoll and (lately) Brazoban, it seems the rest of the pen come from the Gascan School of Pitching. It's a French school, I think.
2005-07-23 14:43:46
245.   micktissue
Nice return by Milton anyay ...
2005-07-23 14:45:28
246.   Bob Timmermann
Going to the top of the 9th in Philly.
Phillies 2, Padres 0.
2005-07-23 14:47:28
247.   Steve
Is he going to Erickson to get the "ground ball?"
2005-07-23 14:48:02
248.   weatherman
Ah, Jose Offerman. One of my least favorite Dodgers.
2005-07-23 14:48:34
249.   the OZ
HAAAAAAAAAA Fox broadcaster says, "I think Jose Offerman got a raw deal in LA."

Unrealted: hooray for weird plays.

2005-07-23 14:48:42
250.   weatherman
Was it 95 0r 93 when he single-handedly had more errors than the entire Braves organization?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-07-23 14:49:07
251.   alex 7
will the tigers pay us half of Pudge's contract for a prospect?
2005-07-23 14:49:10
252.   joekings
Great, I just got a flash flood warning on my screen.
2005-07-23 14:49:36
253.   brendan glynn
that play was so tough to watch that I actually would have prefered watching via gameday
2005-07-23 14:49:38
254.   Marty
I think L.,A got a raw deal in Offerman
2005-07-23 14:49:54
255.   Steve
I know we've established that Willie Randolph is a dolt, but why wouldn't you send your .300 hitter up to pinch-hit?
2005-07-23 14:50:03
256.   Bob Timmermann
The flash flood warning is for Ventura County.
2005-07-23 14:50:51
257.   Bob Timmermann
I think Jose Reyes will be the guest on the Mets postgame show.
2005-07-23 14:51:02
258.   joekings
Are we just giving up on throwing runners out now?
2005-07-23 14:51:03
259.   the OZ
Padres lose. Division leader is now 50-48.
2005-07-23 14:51:19
260.   Steve
Isn't the question against Houlton, Carrara, Sanchez, Alvarez, et. al why you wouldn't assume a hit explosion?
2005-07-23 14:51:34
261.   Benaiah
Nice job by the pen. I am shocked and disgusted and only a 9th inning miracle will stop me from free falling back into acceptance. No way we make the playoffs with a bullpen like this.
2005-07-23 14:51:35
262.   capdodger
Anyone think that bringing up some of the kids to stick in the BP might be a good idea?
2005-07-23 14:51:42
263.   micktissue
The wierd play on gameday looks like a normal play ...
2005-07-23 14:51:52
264.   student of the game
Does anyone know Sanchez's ERA in his second inning of work?
2005-07-23 14:52:16
265.   Bob Timmermann
But it's 8-9-1 up in the 9th! The "heart" of the order!
2005-07-23 14:52:40
266.   Steve
I'm still trying to figure out why it matters that we can't throw anybody out. When has it made a difference?
2005-07-23 14:53:25
267.   micktissue
Monday: "Check me on this Charlie, but do I see Tracy looking up defensive indifference in the Idiots Guide to Managing a Professional Basball Team?"
2005-07-23 14:54:35
268.   capdodger
253,263 - What was the weird play?
2005-07-23 14:55:28
269.   Bob Timmermann
It makes a difference in that it makes Joe Morgan say even dumber things.
2005-07-23 14:56:19
270.   micktissue
This link
shows Duaner doing better the more pitches he throws ...
2005-07-23 14:56:46
271.   Steve
Ryan Dempster and Braden Looper are walking breathing examples of the maxim that "anybody can close"
2005-07-23 14:58:16
272.   capdodger
Choi pinch hitting - .246 OPS as a ph and all.
2005-07-23 14:58:59
273.   micktissue
Why are Steiner and Monday talking about sunglasses? Jeez these guys suck ...
2005-07-23 14:59:04
274.   joekings
That looked a bit high.
2005-07-23 14:59:29
275.   Los Reyes
So can we blame part of this on Tracy for leaving Houlton in the game instead of pinch hitting for him in the 6th. That cost them a run initially. Do we need Gio anymore?
2005-07-23 14:59:31
276.   Los Reyes
So can we blame part of this on Tracy for leaving Houlton in the game instead of pinch hitting for him in the 6th. That cost them a run initially. Do we need Gio anymore?
2005-07-23 14:59:44
277.   Benaiah
Looper has 16 Ks in 34 IP coming into this game so of course he promptly K's Phillips and Choi.
2005-07-23 15:00:30
278.   Christina
And the pain ends.
2005-07-23 15:00:56
279.   student of the game
270. I just saw that.

According to ESPN, Sanchez is hit hard early in his appearances:

between 1-15 pitches he allows an .833 OPS

between 16-30 pitches he allows .645 OPS.

I wonder if there is any numbers based on the innings that he pitches, he always seems to have difficulties when pitching multiple innings.

2005-07-23 15:01:42
280.   capdodger
Whatever.... Time to cook, eat and head on down to the Brickskellar to kill some neurons.
2005-07-23 15:01:45
281.   weatherman
That game was horrible.
2005-07-23 15:01:53
282.   Bob Timmermann
I think there's something to be said for the loss to be attributed to Jose Reyes going 4 for 5.
2005-07-23 15:02:23
283.   Sam NYC
I'm sure Steve will find a reason to blame Tracy for this loss.

Meanwhile, the once invincible Dodger bullpen has fallen apart. Gone are the days when a lead after 6 meant a win. Congratulations, DePo!

2005-07-23 15:02:41
284.   Steve
Dempster fooled Albert Pujols into hitting a bullet right at Neifi!(TM) and getting the double play at second. How ridiculous.
2005-07-23 15:03:14
285.   Steve
I'm sure Steve will find a reason to blame Tracy for this loss.

You're an idiot.

2005-07-23 15:03:21
286.   Bob Timmermann
Sanchez would likely have better stats the longer he stays in because relievers are pulled if they are getting hit hard early.

It's not like the relievers are getting tired. They only get to pitch a second inning if they did OK in the first one (unless it's mopup).

2005-07-23 15:04:49
287.   Benaiah
The loss goes to: Tracy 90%. Gio Carrera has a 5+ ERA and is a choker extraordinare, he should have never ever been allowed in a one run game. I don't even blame Gio for blowing it since that is exactly what you expect him to do. We have 2 mop up men in the bullpen, which is unfortunate, but you don't put them in with the game on the line.
10% Gio, Alverez and Sanchez. We have all these ragarmed flame outs and choke artists in the pen and today was a prime example of what happens. Pedro has his worst start of the year and we give it away at the end. Ugly ugly game. This one derailed my hope and denial train.
2005-07-23 15:07:22
288.   alex 7
I missed Depo trading Gagne, Brazoban, Alvarez, Sanchez, and the rest of last year's mighty bullpen.
2005-07-23 15:08:40
289.   Steve
Cast not thine pearls before swine.
2005-07-23 15:11:26
290.   Kilgore Trout
283 - Of course, you realize this is the same bullpen from last year except for Gagne missing.
2005-07-23 15:12:37
291.   the OZ
Well, I'm still trying to find out why Alvarez is being used as a lefty specialist. He isn't. Historically, lefties have mashed him in relation to rightis. Of course, this season, lefties are hitting his well and righties are doing the mashing.

2003 - splits are about equal vs. LH and RH batters

2004 - LH - .307 avg, 1.50 whip, 2:1 K/BB 29IP
2004 - RH - .222 avg, 1.05 WHIP, 4:1 K/BB 90IP

2005 - BAA same for each `.285, 6 HR vs RH in 15 innings. About .750 OPS vs LH, .950 vs RH.

The point is, there's no reason to expect a late-career Alvarez to get lefties out better than any other pitcher on staff. In fact, this season, there's little reason to expect him to get ANYONE out better than, oh, say Erickson.

2005-07-23 15:12:49
292.   weatherman
I think that one of the things this does is show just how crucial Gagne's injury has been and is to this team. The Dodgers truly are a different team without him. There is nothing Mota, Cora or LoDuca could have done to save this game.
2005-07-23 15:14:23
293.   Bob Timmermann

Well, it's close to the bullpen at the end of 2004. With the exceptions of Schmoll and Erickson.

Obviously there's no more Guillermo Mota or Tom Martin.

2005-07-23 15:15:09
294.   scanderbeg
I wouldn't consider this bullpen exactly the same, though. Carrara clearly will not repeat the mild success that he had last year. He consistently walks the leadoff batter.

What is the status of Broxton, and the likelihood of him being called up?

2005-07-23 15:15:43
295.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Alvarez was being used as a LOOGY today. I think he was just being used as a Carlos Beltran specialist.

But Jim Tracy is not a guy familiar with sample sizes.

2005-07-23 15:18:42
296.   Los Reyes
Why wouldn't we put this on Tracy? Why wouldn't you pull your starter after 85 pitches and 5 innings when you know that you will only use him for one more inning? Especially Houlton. I guess that didn't cost them the whole game though, Gio deserves part of it.
2005-07-23 15:22:11
297.   weatherman
Gio doesn't deserve to be on our payroll. This is all Tracy.
2005-07-23 15:26:29
298.   Bob Timmermann
See, it's all back like May and early June! I never realized how much I missed those days.
2005-07-23 15:26:43
299.   Sam NYC
Things can die from neglect, too. Mota goes, leaving the team to rely on the injury prone Dreifort. Of course, Dreifort gets injured and is never really replaced. Gagne's workload goes up (check it out for yourself, specifically how many times Gagne pitched two innings after Mota was traded) and then you wonder why he gets hurt the next season. No veterans are added to the bullpen in the offseason. Brazoban is thrust into the closer's role at a tender age. What has DePo done to IMPROVE the bullpen?
2005-07-23 15:27:35
300.   capdodger
Hopefully Depo will package Gio into any deal to take away Jimbo's favorite gas can.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-07-23 15:29:14
301.   weatherman
I am only a volunteer assistant high school baseball coach and not a manager of a major league team, however, if I were doing it (absurd I know) I would have pulled Houlton after five used Schmoll and Sanchez and then finished the game with Brazoban. Perhaps, though, Tracy had already penciled this game in as a loss since we were facing Pedro and didn't feel pressure to win it even after we had bested the Met Ace.
2005-07-23 15:29:17
302.   weatherman
I am only a volunteer assistant high school baseball coach and not a manager of a major league team, however, if I were doing it (absurd I know) I would have pulled Houlton after five used Schmoll and Sanchez and then finished the game with Brazoban. Perhaps, though, Tracy had already penciled this game in as a loss since we were facing Pedro and didn't feel pressure to win it even after we had bested the Met Ace.
2005-07-23 15:31:01
303.   Steve
Paul Quantrill? Danny Graves? LaTroy Hawkins? I wish we had some veterans in our bullpen.
2005-07-23 15:32:12
304.   Bob Timmermann
I'm just guessing, but I think DePodesta didn't think that any other reliever available in the free agent market would have been worth the money or marginally better than what was left over.

Of course, Gagne's injury scrambled all the eggs and the result was not an omelet, but more of a fritatta.

2005-07-23 15:38:55
305.   Steve
303 -- I just realized that I could have put Mota on that list, and he would have fit right in.
2005-07-23 15:45:17
306.   capdodger
299 - Gange has pitched 82.1 innings for the last three years. There has been no increase in workload for the closer.

And no, I don't wonder why Gange was injured. He twisted his knee playing pepper and then they let him pitch on before he was healed. This caused a change in his mechanics (!) and then and before you could say "Dr. Frank Jobe" he was on the shelf.

2005-07-23 15:46:04
307.   capdodger
and then and before

and before

2005-07-23 15:49:40
308.   the OZ
295 - In 4 appearances since coming off the DL, ALvarez hasn't faced more than 2 batters. Each time, he was brought in to face a LH batter or switch-hitter. I say this in response only because my sarcasm meter is broken.
2005-07-23 15:52:03
309.   gvette
Haven't cared much for Carrara since his epic performance on July 21, 2002 (feel free to check Retrosheet to see what I mean),so any disaster that he's responsible for isn't surprising. But I'm sure Tracy thinks he's a great chemistry guy, or something.

But, for crying out loud, the Padres are losing to guys named Robinson Tejada, and are forced to start Astacio, and now think that Ponson is their big hope, and DePo continues to DO NOTHING?

Randa may not be much, but certainly the Dodgers could have made a more competitive offer to the Reds using C level prospects like the Padres did.

2005-07-23 15:52:37
310.   natepurcell
are we buyers or sellers, im still confused.
2005-07-23 15:53:35
311.   Steve
I thought Alvarez was being used as a one-batter pitcher simply because he can't pitch to several batters anymore. While FJT has been a long-held goal, FJT "the site" was born when Tracy let Alvarez pitch to Pujols in Game 4 last year. I don't think Tracy has any natural aversion to pitching Alvarez against right-handers, regardless of his LOOGY-lovin' ways.
2005-07-23 15:54:28
312.   natepurcell
travis chick was the padres best pitching prospect since stauffer got called up.
2005-07-23 15:55:55
313.   Bob Timmermann
Why would the Dodgers have wanted Joe Randa?
2005-07-23 15:58:55
314.   Steve
Joe Randa = icky, icky, icky
2005-07-23 16:09:05
315.   gvette
Guess I'm the only one who wouldn't mind seeing someone playing 3B in the last weeks of the season who could hit .280, has some power (at least to the gaps),can field decently, and is readily disposable when the AA phenoms finally grow up in a couple of years.

Chick may have been highly rated at the beginning of the year, but his AA performance this year (2-9, era over 5.00) apparently made him available.

2005-07-23 16:09:33
316.   Vishal
i hope i never again see giovanni carrara in another close game for the rest of my life, the exception being that he is on another team and is facing the dodgers.

and no, that should not be read as a death wish.

2005-07-23 16:11:14
317.   Steve
"Guess I'm the only one who wouldn't mind seeing someone playing 3B in the last weeks of the season who could hit .280, has some power (at least to the gaps),can field decently, and is readily disposable when the AA phenoms finally grow up in a couple of years."

Fielding aside (and we would only get two months of Joe Randa's gold glove), didn't you just describe Antonio Perez?

2005-07-23 16:21:55
318.   gvette

Antonio Perez? You mean our future outfielder?

2005-07-23 16:25:36
319.   natepurcell
greg miller is pitching today for vero.
2005-07-23 16:26:01
320.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Randa just wouldn't have been much better than what the Dodgers already has. However, for the Padres, Joe Randa is better than what Sean Burroughs and Geoff Blum were providing.

The Dodgers have lots of guys now who can play third base passably (Robles, A Perez, and soon Valentin).

Randa's not bad, but I doubt he would have made much of an impact.

2005-07-23 16:27:11
321.   Steve
Exactly. We haven't even discussed my man-crush on Oscar Robles.
2005-07-23 16:27:31
322.   Langhorne
Or Jose Valentin.
2005-07-23 16:27:45
323.   Bob Timmermann
Hmm, the White Sox had TWO runners caught stealing in the first inning, although the second one was a pickoff play.
2005-07-23 16:29:30
324.   Steve
I don't like Jose Valentin.
2005-07-23 16:34:39
325.   natepurcell
I don't like Jose Valentin.

but do you like his sexy stache?

2005-07-23 16:35:51
326.   Bob Timmermann
NL West teams by run difference
San Diego -6
Los Angeles -40
San Francisco -59
Arizona -88
Colorado -118 (they're -120 as I type this)
2005-07-23 16:37:59
327.   Steve
325 -- Now that is icky, icky, icky. That is Cora-level icky.
2005-07-23 16:41:06
328.   Bob Timmermann
The transactions for the Dodgers say that Chen was designated for assignment so I suppose that is leaving an opening on the 40-man roster for Valentin when he gets off the DL?
2005-07-23 16:57:44
329.   ddger
It's getting increasingly frustrating watching the short handed dodgers lose these heart breaking game after game. I know that Tracy's weaknesses are exposed in these tight games but still Depo should help Tracy more by getting him some help. This inactivity by Depo is really starting to bother me. Is it that they can't decide whether to buy or sell or are they just waiting for that decision to be made for them. Too bad SD keeps losing so that they can't decide whether to buy or sell.
2005-07-23 17:28:12
330.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't think it was possible for the frustration to increase at this point. I thought we were all at Acceptance.
2005-07-23 17:36:30
331.   ddger
It was a brief period of denial but back to reality of acceptance.
2005-07-23 17:41:05
332.   dzzrtRatt
This San Diego trade with Baltimore seems like a puppet show. 1)The Padres know Nevin won't approve the trade and 2) They can't possibly really want Ponson, who has been a flop going on three seasons now.

Meanwhile, Baltimore is supposed to be looking for pitching, not another hitter.

So what's up? This is all very Sicilian.

I hope the trade happens, because Ponson's a bum and Nevin is a force in the lineup, while Randa's just a body. But it doesn't look like something either side really intends.

2005-07-23 17:43:21
333.   Steve
Beat Cesar Izturis' OPS Contest Update:

Adrian Beltre - .695
Cesar Izturis - .649

Careful, Adrian. You're letting your buddy back in the race!

2005-07-23 17:46:01
334.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: buying or selling

My own guess is that DePo will see what happens with what personnel we have and wait until the last minute. If we were going to sell, as I think we will still end up doing, it'd be better be to wait until the last minute anyway for leverage. And even if we were buyers, we might have to wait on potential trading partners.

IMO, Bob's listing of run differentials says it all. Any major blockbuster deal will involve top-level prospects, and I'd say no thanks to us giving up any real value to win in this pathetic division.


2005-07-23 17:46:51
335.   Bob Timmermann
There are 105 pitchers in the AL with enough innings to qualify for the ERA title (1 IP/game played).

Ponson's ERA ranks him at 102. The pitchers who are worse are Mark Hendrickson, Jose Lima, and Hideo Nomo.

2005-07-23 17:49:12
336.   bokonon42
332- My theory, as in #22, is that the O's are trying to get Florida to back off on piggy-backing Lowell on to the Burnett deal. But I don't see what SD gets out of it, and they're the ones who are taking the short end of this, if it goes through.
2005-07-23 17:50:14
337.   dzzrtRatt

A bit flighty, wouldn't you have to say? One loss, a loss that doesn't cost us a game in the standings, and we're back to "acceptance?" What, is Joe Randa scaring you people?

As bad as the Dodgers suck, the last two weeks have demonstrated that we can overtake the Padres. Yeah, we lost today, and it's a drag how it happened, but this wasn't the game anyone figured us to win. A road loss against a hot team with its best pitcher does not spell doom.

Wilson Alvarez is not going to be the key factor in whether we go to the playoffs. Every team's got less than impregnable bullpens. It's going to be up to Penny, Lowe, Weaver, Brazoban, Sanchez, Kent, Bradley, Izturis, Valenting, Phillips, Saenz, Choi, Robles and possibly Drew. And Tracy. And DePodesta, who might get us another hitter.

2005-07-23 17:55:04
338.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Randa scares me, but for much different reasons.

You'd have to ask my therapist about it. It was quite traumatic.

2005-07-23 17:55:58
339.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 337

I think this game is more important than that. We need every game at this point in the season, especially with Arizona still ahead of us. The Padres are obviously nothing special, but I don't think they'll continue to suck this bad forever, and we need to make up ground when we can. A team gets only so many opportunities like we had today, and losing games like this will seal our fate at season's end.


2005-07-23 18:00:21
340.   Bob Timmermann
But it's also unrealistic to expect the Dodgers to win every single game too. The team is going to lose games.

They've won 4 out of their last 7. That's progress by NL West standards.

2005-07-23 18:03:18
341.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Well, the every was a bit of a rhetorical expression. Nevertheless, we're going to need to steal more than a few games like today's where we aren't supposed to win, both to compensate for the inevitable losses and to make up for lost ground.

Regression to the mean would indicate that the Padres will start playing better at some point. We can't keep on relying on their ineptitude.


2005-07-23 18:05:20
342.   the OZ
4/7 = .571.

Division lead = .510 (50/98)

2005-07-23 18:06:16
343.   bokonon42
The Chi Sox titans of broadcasting spent half an inning discussing the merits of coaching by statistics vs. intuition. I can't tell them apart, but one of the dopes said that when know-it-all GMs put statistical print outs on the manager's desk, he'd throw it in the trash as soon as the GM was out the door. Maybe it's time for to debut a Tracy's office webcam.
2005-07-23 18:23:58
344.   dzzrtRatt

How did you manage that rhetorical flourish? Yours is the first post I've seen to include an underscore.

2005-07-23 18:27:32
345.   ddger
How many times have we lost where we led going into 6th innning or later? This year, the 6th and 7th seems to be killing us.
2005-07-23 18:31:58
346.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 344

Underlining involves putting an underscore immediately before and after a word, instead of the asterisk for bold.


2005-07-23 18:35:28
347.   Bob Timmermann
Your question has an answer, but it would likely involve someone who has a database with all the Dodgers line scores to see how the scores have progressed.

I think the Dodgers losses are magnified because they have tendency to come in very annoying fashions. An error late (such as Valentin on Opening day), a 2-out, 2-strike home run (I would shudder to count those), or blowing the lead late.

And the losses are all relatively close as witnessed by the -40 in runs scored/against.

2005-07-23 18:47:09
348.   ddger
If we bring up Broxton, can he be any worse than Carrerra? Carrerra is catching up to Erickson for lead mopup roles.
2005-07-23 18:48:43
349.   ddger
I meant Carrara net Carrerra.
2005-07-23 19:02:36
350.   sanchez101
i agree, its time for carrara to go. Erikson too. Sanchez is on thin ice and would be gone if Osoria improves some in Las Vegas. When brazoban or schmoll comes to the mound i think, "this guy can do the job, sure hes young and at times inconsistent, but he can get some outs." With carrara, erickson or sanchez, it seems like pure luck when theyre actually get someone out, tracy's really rollin the dice with these guys.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-07-23 19:05:05
351.   sanchez101
I think depodesta's waiting till august to call up broxton or kuo. He probably want to avoid starting there service time clocks. If he brings them up now, theyll go over 50ip by the end of the year, but if he waits two or three weeks they probably wont. Well see those guys around the same time brazoban was promoted last year.
2005-07-23 19:10:37
352.   Steve
I confess to still holding out hope for Duaner. Hard not to get down on him but 1) he has, in fact, gotten some outs and 2) he is also young and 3) he is very cheap and 4) I keep hoping he will figure it out like Gagne did, ditch the horrific slider, and work the fastball off the change.

And I would go so far to say that even though his stuff is not the best, it is better than the vast majority of 35 year old middle relievers still vacuuming up resources and roster space and weighing down most clubs.

2005-07-23 19:16:31
353.   ddger
Carrara (37 years old)
Erickson (37 years old)
Alvarez (35 years old)
Dessens (34 years old)

How long should these pitchers stay on our roster?

2005-07-23 19:16:52
354.   the OZ
Kuo's a reliever. I doubt DePodesta cares that much about managing his arbitration clock, especially with the bullpen continuing to need an upgrade. Either way, we get three or more cheap years from him, assuming he stays healthy and performs well at a Major League-level.

For a GM to leave a sharp, dominant RELIEF pitcher in the minors when his team needs some help and has an opportunity to win the division because he's more concerned about managing an arbitration clock would be unfathomable.

Broxton's a different story because he has starter potential - managing his artibration clock can result in a greater net gain for the team because he could stand to command $10 in arbitration one day if he pans out to his ceiling. That's not the case with Kuo.

Is it pronouned "Quo?" Does anyone "Know"?

2005-07-23 19:20:01
355.   ddger
Too bad about Derek Thompson. I was looking forward to seeing him pitch next year so that one of those 4 above will not be on the roster next year.
2005-07-23 19:20:59
356.   bokonon42
If Tracy really does end up in Cinci, he and Justin Germano can reminisce about Claremont.
2005-07-23 19:23:10
357.   ddger
Can we trade Tracy for Dunn? :)
2005-07-23 19:26:22
358.   Steve
Did Germano live near Snoop and Mike Scioscia too?
2005-07-23 19:26:22
359.   Steve
Did Germano live near Snoop and Mike Scioscia too?
2005-07-23 19:36:14
360.   bokonon42
Germano is (I think) Claremont High School's finest player of all time.
2005-07-23 19:36:41
361.   sanchez101
357, i was wondering about that. That would be hilarious. But, i doubt that depodesta would get rid of tracy if he didnt have an adequate replacement already in mind.
2005-07-23 20:08:40
362.   Sam DC
Grabowski principle sighting -- Brad Halsey has no-hit the Braves through 5. Jorge Sosa began the bottom of the fifth by walking Halsey. Consequences, if any, not yet known.
2005-07-23 20:10:10
363.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 354

My Chinese linguistics is rusty--I can hold a passable conversation over basic personal topics with what I learned growing up, and I still remember something from the one college course I took--so I may be wrong, but I'll try to answer your question. If you know the Hanyu pinyin romanization, Kuo's name would be spelled as "Guo" instead of "Kuo"--Taiwanese use a different form of Romanization. This is why the old Nationalist party is sometimes spelled as either Kuomintang or Guomindang.

However, assuming I'm interpreting my old textbook correctly, Guo is somewhat deceptive. Although the sound isn't like the English "k," it's also not exactly like the English "g," because it's an unvoiced consonant (it doesn't use the vocal cords). It's more like the "k" in sky.


2005-07-23 20:10:29
364.   Sam DC
No consequences that half inning. Or maybe the walk was on purpose -- make Halsey park on the bases all inning.
2005-07-23 20:16:30
365.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 363

Of course, when I speak Mandarin Chinese, I don't really think about all these sorts of things. I just say it, although that's why I speak with a Taiwanese accent as opposed to "proper" Mandarin pronounciation.


2005-07-23 21:24:22
366.   LAT
Missed most of the game today. Probably a good thing. But here is my news for the day:

Took the daughters to see Charlie and the Choc. Factory. 5:00 show in Century City. A fairly large but soft spoken black man was in line in front of me with his family. The guy had arms like tree trunks. He was going to see the Fantastic Four. Suprisingly his wife was not very hot. But more than that, Barry was walking just fine. No limp or visable sign of injury. I still maintain he will be back this year.
There were not very many people in the theater and only a few people even noticed him. No one asked for an autograph. Barry did hustle into the theater leaving his family to get the popcorn and drinks.

2005-07-23 22:27:45
367.   Linkmeister
Does he live in Southern California? What on earth was he doing in Century City, I wonder?

A former company of mine rented a condo on Century Park West, which I stayed in about every other week for a while. The neighborhood was nice and convenient, but the condo (specifically the walls) was furnished in what I call "early family member." Paintings that looked like the daughter or niece had done them when she was about 14. Mismatched living room furniture, two small bedrooms, one of which had a sofa bed. And it was right across from Centinela Hospital (I think), so lots of ambient noise.

2005-07-23 22:30:08
368.   alex 7
the more important question is how was the movie lat?
2005-07-23 22:48:12
369.   bokonon42
The first couple of passes at SF rehab didn't take, so he's been down here. ESPN says he has a home in Beverly Hills.

2005-07-23 23:07:11
370.   LAT
367. He lives in Beverly Hills now. His kids go to Brentwood School.

368. The movie was pretty good. Suprisingly, the only weak spot was Johnny Depp. He is just this weird Michael Jackson asexual freak. He had none of the charm of the Gene Wilder Wonka. The Ompa Lompas were a little weird as well. But the rest of the movie was very well done. Worth seeing if you have kids or are a fan of the first one.

BTW, asked the Shawn Green Daughter if she wanted to ask Barry for an autograph and she asked "why?"
Who says I'm not raising my children right.

2005-07-23 23:10:16
371.   coachjpark
Why not leave Houlton in there for the 7th inning? Was there absolutely any reason why Giovanni Carrara had to start the innning? ANY?
2005-07-23 23:52:51
372.   Bob Timmermann
Wasn't it just one Oompa Loompa digitally reproduced?
2005-07-23 23:54:07
373.   Bob Timmermann
This was at the end of the New York Times story about the Dodgers-Mets game:
On the Mets' radio broadcast, the announcer Howie Rose noted that the Yankees would play at night against "the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" and quickly added that the Mets were playing "the Brooklyn Dodgers of Los Angeles."

Howie's on my list!

2005-07-23 23:59:57
374.   Strike4
It's not just radio. On the ESPN photo log of tonight's Angels/Yankees games, there's two out of eleven pictures of Angels. Their blog calls K-Rod "cartoonish." I guess pride comes before the fall.
2005-07-24 00:13:24
375.   Jim Hitchcock
Link, `early family member'? Too funny.

LAT, I have this picture in my head of your daughter going up to Bonds and saying "You're no Shawn Green, but can I have your autograph anyway?"

2005-07-24 00:38:57
376.   Xeifrank
354. Where's he from? If he is Chinese/Taiwanese then Kuo is pronounced Kwow rhymes with "No". Chinese "uo" has a "wo" sound to it. If it's Korean, then I have no idea.
vr, Xei
2005-07-24 00:50:08
377.   natepurcell
hes from taiwan.
2005-07-24 08:31:04
378.   LAT
372. Yes it was the same Oompa Loompa over and over again. That was part of what was so weird

375. Jim, that is probably what she would say. Part of me would be afraid of her saying it to him and part of me would be proud of her for it.

2005-07-24 09:47:58
379.   Bob Timmermann
Somebody better wake up Jon. It's almost time for "Breakfast at Flushing".

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