Is Rose playing today to give Phillips a rest or because he might throw out a baserunner trying to steal?

Wash Post ran a box today showing the best and worst "at bats per RBI" in the majors. Best catcher in the NL is Jason Philips, 6.83. Worst catcher in the NL is, I'm afraid, Paul Lo Duca, 8.03. Kent is the best second baseman, 5.09. Cesar Izturis is the worst shortstop, with an incredible 15.23. That is the worst of all listed players except Scott Podsednik, at 17.28.

When's the last time Werth had a day off? It seems to me that Depo might be more interested in seeing what type of player Werth is full-time rather than Choi.

Random Dodger game callback

July 24, 1984

The last two champions of the National League West got together at Dodger Stadium and the Atlanta Braves came out on top 4-2 before 41.589 with a pair of runs in the ninth. However, neither team was going anywhere this year. The Dodgers were 49-51 and 8 ½ games behind first place San Diego and the Braves were just 2 ½ games better than the Dodgers.

Dodgers rookie starter Orel Hershiser was riding a 30 2/3 inning scoreless streak coming into the game and was 6-3 on the season. The Dodgers got him a 2-0 lead in the second on a sacrifice fly by Mike Scioscia and a home run from third baseman German Rivera.

But the Braves ended the shutout streak with a pair of runs in the fourth. With one out, Claudell Washington singled and Dale Murphy homered to tie the game. After that, Hershiser and Braves pitcher Pascual Perez and Steve Bedrosian kept both teams from scoring until the ninth.

Hershiser walked Washington and Murphy to start the 9th, but was able to strike out Chris Chambliss. Brad Komminsk then singled to right to score Washington and move Murphy to third. Komminsk moved up to second on the throw home. Manager Tommy Lasorda had Glenn Hubbard walked intentionally to load the bases. He also pulled Hershiser in favor of Ken Howell.

Howell struck out Alex Trevino, but pinch hitter Rufino Linares singled in Murphy to make it 4-2. Donnie Moore relieved in the bottom of the ninth and set down the Dodgers in order to earn the save. Bedrosian picked up the win.

The 1984 Dodgers weren't able to repeat their unlikely NL West title of 1983 and finished 79-83, 13 games behind San Diego and in fourth place.

The offense was the big problem. The Dodgers scored just 580 runs (down from 654 the previous year), the lowest total in the majors.

The only hitter who had a good year was Pedro Guerrero batted .303 and hit 16 home runs. But Guerrero's defensive problems kept him from finding a regular home in the field. He played 76 games at third, 16 games at first and 58 in the outfield.

Mike Marshall led the team in home runs with 21, but batted just .257 and had an OBP of .315. First baseman Greg Brock managed to hit 14 home runs in just 88 games and batted .225 and still remained "not Steve Garvey." Steve Sax slumped to a .243 average and new shortstop Dave Anderson hit .251.

Two veteran hitters played their final season. Bill Russell, the longtime shortstop, played his final season as a utility man bouncing between the infield and outfield. Rick Monday played in 31 games, playing his final game on June 20, striking out as a pinch hitter against Cincinnati's Jeff Russell.

The Dodgers did have a surprise winner of the NL ERA crown in Alejandro Pena at 2.48. He had a 12-6 record. Hershiser finished 11-8 with a 2.66 ERA. Fernando Valenzuela went 12-17 with a 3.03 ERA and led the NL in walks with 106.

The bullpen needed some help after Steve Howe was suspended for the entire 1984 season after testing positive for cocaine three times in November of 1983. Tom Niedenfuer led the team in saves with 11. Nearly everyone on the staff had a turn in the pen. Hershiser had two saves. Jerry Reuss had one. Burt Hooton had six saves.

The only good thing that happened to the Dodgers in 1984 was something few people knew about at the time. On September 1, the Dodgers signed a free agent pitcher from the Dominican Republic named Ramon Martinez.

Thanks to New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

Different catcher. Same result.

But it does not matter.

If Penny gets 2 Ks each inning, I can forgive him a stolen base.

Nice to see Werth no long looks suprised when he strikes out looking. Now he looks like he expects it.

What happened to Benson's tired shoulder from last season's series?

Has Nevin finalized the trade yet?

Answering Steve Lyons question, I've had an oxygen mask strapped to me. But I was having an asthma attack.

I liked it because I was able to breathe.

9. His wife said if he didn't get out there and pitch she woud sleep with every player on the Mets.

Sweeney is starting at first base today for the Padres, so perhaps Nevin is seriously mulling over the offer.

Brian Lawrence vs. Brett Myers in Philly today.

Joe Randa is not with the Padres today. Geoff Blum is playing third.

Not a good omen. Get it together Penny!

how could psycho and steiner not realize that they are clapping because he is now the leader in HR for catchers all time. can't believe they get paid for this.

Gameday lists Nevin and Randa as both being available on the bench for the Padres.

I wonder if this won't end up being a situation like the Dodgers had in 1988 when Guerrero was told he was traded before he was traded and Guerrero went into a major-league sulk.

However, John Tudor is a lot better than Sidney Ponson.

Geez. Still 0 outs.

"It is getting easier to get a curtain call in New York. the second inning" what a dummy.

steiner than chimes in with 'well he passed johnny bench and is tied with nettles". Yeah charley the tie with Nettles is why everyone is clapping. Arrgh.

Lyons: "Piazza is good looking guy. I'd marry him."

Very important baseball analysis there.

11

That was very strange.

Benson must not be too smart, showing attitude on called third strike. That's a good idea Chris give the umpire 'tude before you take the mound.

Perhaps Lyons is actually a plant and uses photosynthesis and is unfamiliar with the effects of oxygen on the human body.

STOP THE PRESS. DODGERS THROW OUT RUNNER!!!

Steiner was so shocked that Reyes got thrown out that he called the Dodgers catcher "Mike Cameron."

Did anyone catch that mistake by Steiner? He said that Mike Cameron threw out Reyes.

26,
Apparently I did 20 seconds ahead of you.

Edwards, Rose and Penny. That will strike fear into the heart of Chris Benson.

Can anyone really picture Vin Scully discussing the statements of Anna Benson?

He would be horrified.

I remember back when Vin was doing the NFL for CBS and he was reading promos for "60 Minutes" and they were going to do a piece on the Lee Marvin palimony case. Vin seemed to be horrified by the concept of people living together before marriage and then suing for support.

So where was Bradley positioned on that hit? He seemed to be in a different borough.

Sigh of relief.

Bill Russell, the longtime shortstop, played his final season as a utility man bouncing between the infield and outfield.
Nope, Russell hung 'em up after the '86 season.
Notes while looking over Billy's numbers at BBR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/russebi01.shtml):
1. His best comp is Ozzie Guillen.
2. This surprised me - he was a three-time All-Star, in '73, '76 and '80. OPS+ in those seasons: 80, 85, 79.
3. He never posted a league-average OPS+. Closest he came was 99 in '72.
4. In '74, he was intentionally walked a league-leading 25 times. (Proving, for me, how useless that stat is unless it's attached to a power hitter.)
5. In the four-season span of 1976-79, he grounded into 74 double plays.
6. In '73, he actually got on someone's MVP ballot for a 265/301/337/80+ season.

Never mind.

Milton was shallow on that play as well.

Penny is fooling no one today, looks like our offense is gonna have to get it together to make this a game.

I hope Bradley makes upt at the plate the run he cost us in the field.

32,
Yeah, you're right there. Don't know how I did that.

And in my 1986 piece (June 21), I mention Bill Russell.

D'oh! Perhaps a metaphor for today's game.

Gaaah. Get the bullpen up.

Bad luck on the bounce there. Kent was in position but the ball had a mind of its own.

Grr. Not on FSNW2 today, I see. Instead I get poker. Why is poker a spectator sport?

39,
Move along, move along, nothing to see here today, please disperse, nothing to see.

Luck is not on our side today.

Neither luck nor skill is on the Dodgers side today.

Cmon Milton, do something to make up for those runs.

Fret not, BobT. Your accuracy rate is the envy of Dodger broadcasters not named Vin. Then again, I once heard him call Stan Javier "Julian" for a whole at-bat.
At least Vin will acknowledge his mistakes, in a tone suggesting he expects far better from himself.
My favorite example of such came in the early 90s, with the Cubs in town. He was straining to tell listeners who exactly was warming up in the Chicago bullpen.
"I can't quite see his number... It might be..."
Deep sigh, followed by a sharp: "It's Chuck McElroy. There's only one black left-hander with glasses in the Cubs' bullpen, and that's him. Nice going, Vin."

1-5-3 groundout?
Someone wanna fill me in?

Very hard hit off Benson's foot, right to Wright.

I think I just assumed that Russell played one year as a utility man. I forgot that it was three.

I assume he got to stay the longest among the Dodgers famous infield because he was the least talented, so he wasn't as expensive to keep around as Lopes, Cey, or Garvey. I wonder if Lasorda liked Russell at all. He was Lasorda's successor, but it wasn't like Lasorda went to the mat for him when Russell got fired.

Very scrappy Jayson!

Somebody tell Choi that Kris Benson is really Brad Radke.

He was Lasorda's successor, but it wasn't like Lasorda went to the mat for him when Russell got fired.
IIRC, Russell canned in the infamous Father's Day Massacre (after this game - http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B06210COL1998.htm)
Tommy was probably glad he wasn't fired, too, explaining why he kept his mouth shut. Also, Lasorda got the GM job in that shakeup, so he had bigger fish to fry.

Rats! Kris Benson must have a tricky arm angle.

How deep was Choi's fly ball?

Shallow right, the only excitement was it almost fell in no-man's land.

Choi's fly ball was measured at 150 feet.

Phillies take the lead 1-0 over San Diego.

I really don't think the Dodgers will catch them, but I enjoy the ineptitude of the NL West.

After the game is over, I'm going to go out and look for some car wrecks too.

2-0 Phillies in the 3rd.

I thought Mike Rose made the base hit. Steiner just doesnt want to credit Rose with anything.

4-0 Phillies now.

Hint on the AFLAC question:

TWO former Dodgers homered for the Mets in their first game. Both were infielders.

trade "suggestion" from the nypost:

ADAM DUNN

Why Reds should trade him: He makes $4.6 million this season, is about to become very expensive and is a free agent in two years. The Reds have outfield depth to replace him. They have a ballpark that will make it easy to attract hitters, not pitchers, so they should use him to score young pitching. He strikes out too much, slugs nearly 175 points better at home than on the road and has trouble against lefties, so before he potentially hurts his value with diminished performance compared to inflated salary, act now.

Who might want him: Mets, Astros, Dodgers, Indians.

Suggested trade: To the Dodgers for Chad Billingsley, Edwin Jackson and Yhency Brazoban. The Dodgers are one of the majors' deepest organizations, their GM Paul DePodesta has a track record that he will trade, Los Angeles badly needs a bat and Dunn is a classic Moneyball player, and DePodesta's DNA is filled with Moneyball, which also means he is not afraid to trade a closer and create another from within the system. Billingsley is one of the minors' top pitching prospects. Jackson was, but has faded badly. Brazoban becomes the Reds' closer or can easily be flipped to a bullpen-hungry contender for another starting prospect.
-NYPost

That is over the line. Jackson, Billingsley and Yhency!?! Why not throw in Laroche or Guzman too?

i think we should. you know, just to humor the baseball world.

It would have been tough for Duke Snider to hit the first home run for the Mets since he didn't play for the Mets until 1963.

The 1962 Mets were bad, but they hit some home runs in their first season.

Jackson, Billingsley, and Yhency is a little too much for Dunn. Give em Tiffany, A. Perez, and Loney and I'm fine with it. I'm not opposed to trading Brazoban, I just don't think his value is at its highest right now.

im just opposed to any deal involving billingsley.

One bad pitch to Piazza here and it could be time for Erickson.

Thank you Cliff Floyd!

Whew, I could tell that was going to happen. It was silly to try and go home on a ball in the infield.

I think being a third base coach is a tough job. On plays like that, there's way too much to try to keep track of. I can't make decisions like that so fast. I have enough time figuring out what kind of cereal to buy.

I have enough time figuring out what kind of cereal to buy.
Unlike Dale Sveum, who just sweeps random boxes into his cart while walking down the aisle.

Just got in. Sounds like no offense today. Has their pitcher been that good?

Is there something in that NYPost article about Odalis to the Phils?

I have a more important problem.

I need to buy birthday presents for two of my nieces. One is turning 4 and the other is turning 6. Something I can easily buy online and ship out to where they live?

I would get books, but since I'm a librarian, it may be cliched for me. The soon to be 6-year old is in to the American Girl doll thing. But who knows, she could have lost interest by now.

The 4-year old would likely be happy if I got her a cup and ball toy. She's the world's happiest kid.

Padres actually get on the board against the Phillies. It's 4-1 now in the 6th.

I advise you to not get them Grand theft Auto.

Toys I've ruled out:
1) Dry cleaning bags
2) The Easy Tip Over Piano
3) Anvils
4) Scott Erickson t-shirts.

I remember a friend's daughter got books from a relative for her 9th birthday. Her reaction was "Books? I HATE books!". Luckily the relative was not there.

Don't look at me, Bob. When I was six, the presents I got were books, G.I. Joe action figures, books, He-Man action figures, and books.

Nothing's really changed in the 22 years since, except that now I typically receive book gift certificates because people can't keep track of what books I own. And instead of action figures, I get weapons. (I just loaned out my Indian war club to a guy friend who wanted some extra security. I offered him the bayonet rifle, too, but he didn't want to go quite that far.)

Wouldn't it be ironic if we trade for Dunn but the difference in the NL West is the Dodger Stadium home runs he hits this week for the wrong team?

A 7/25 deal could be very different than a 7/29 deal.

Someone should tell Steiner that Kent Benson is a 51-year old retired basketball player.

Joe Randa singles in his first AB with the Padres as a pinch hitter. Two on, one out for the Padres in the 7th.

Tribbles, Bob. Kids love 'em.

The Baltimore Chop:

http://www.all-baseball.com/archives/019707.html

Delino DeShields oops is right.

Padres fail to score in the top of the seventh as Roberts strikes out and Loretta grounds out with two on.

4-1 Philadelphia.

There was no way Benson should have pitched that inning and yet... we manage to achieve nothing. Perez strikes out on pitches all around the zone, Robles (who seems to be picking up were Izzy left off lately) gets it to 3-0 before it turns into a full count fly out and Izzy, who seemed destined to get on base given that Benson was rolling the pitches in at that point, flies out. We have so many hitters on the team with zero power, the kind of guys that you can tell popped out if the ball arcs off the bat because it is impossible for a fly to be a home run.

The Mets have BOTH Gerald Williams and Jose Offerman on the roster?

And this team expects to contend?

87 -- Well, they beat us twice, so they must be contenders! Like the Giants.

5-1 Philadelphia after 7.

Goodbye.

At least Erickson's regression/scoreless innings streak is over. Hopefully this will seal his fate when Valentine comes back (though Edwards is a more likely candidate).

Well, since we have thrown in the towel, let's go Mets! More runs off of Erickson.

I sense some more people moving back into acceptance.

Reyes single makes both runs Erickson gave up earned.

Looking for a silver lining here.

Apparently, you can't DFA Erickson. You can only hope to contain him.

Valentine=Valentin, I guess I was just getting flushed at the thought of all those staches in the IF (we have been missing a stache on the left side of the field since his injury).

Hey, it was a .500 road trip.

Progress, NL West style!

And the Padres lose their seventh straight.

They are now 50-49.

97 - I am rooting for the sub 500 division.

By the way, if anyone wants to get a look at the epitome of the anti-Moneyball outlook:

http://www.dodgerplace.com/dunn.htm

The NL West is 0-3 today and the Giants are sending Kevin Correia to the hill to face A.J. Burnett.

In Phoenix, the Braves send Horacio Ramirez to the mound to face Javier Vazquez.

Hey, does anyone know where I could find team LOB for the season?

I don't know where team LOB are, but since the Yankees and Red Sox have team OBPs much higher than other teams, my money is on them.

I'd say that Billingsly, Jackson, and Brazoban is about what we should expect to give up in terms of total value for Dunn. It's overpaying, but overpaying is inevitable at mid-season trades when other teams are interested in the same player.

Still, while those three are the correct total value, throwing in Brazoban is not a good idea because given the current situation, we should be overvaluing Brazoban given our scarcity of quality relievers. While it is likely that minor leaguers would provide an effective solution, a Ghame Over in hand is worth two Broxton/Kuo's in the bush, at least in the narrow context of this season. If we're seriously going to stay in denial stage, which is really the only reason a Dunn trade would make sense, then we should throw in yet another pitching prospect instead of Brazoban.

One week for the non-waiver trade deadline, the NL West still up for grabs or in the sewer for the taking. You pick the words. Main trade out there for the Dodgers seems to be Dunn for prospects or Weaver for somebody. I am hoping that the creativity of De Podesta will give us something better and unless we trade Weaver for AJ Burnett, I question how much better we can get through trades a the moment. We need a another bat, but outside of Dunn have heard nothing that is remotely exciting. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised.

i think we should be sellers.

105 - I am undecided to the point that I will be happy either way as long as Depo doesn't spend any of the big time prospects. On one hand I think we could very well make a push in this horrible horrible division and with Drew back we might even make some noise in the playoffs if the Wild Card came out of the East. However, we are fundamentally not a good team with all the injuries and even getting Dunn might not win us the division and so I am not sold.

106-

we are a flawed team. for example, our bullpen isnt exactly "good". i mean if we still had gagne, i would be comfortable with our bullpen heading into the playoffs. but we dont, and it usually takes a strong bullpen to win playoff games.

does this mean i want to trade for bullpen help? aboslutely not, trading for relievers at the deadline means we would overpay severely. We should retool for next year.

Hey nate did Miller pitch today? He is in Vero right?

I would say that the Giants have a better bullpen than the Dodgers now. The Dodgers are staying ahead of San Francisco primarily because the Dodgers have a respectable starting rotation and had a better start to the season.

I am sure it has already been mentioned, but Hull was promoted to Vegas on Friday. It seems like Tiffany would be the most likely to replace him since Miller is still building his strength and Broxton is locked into the bullpen.

I definitely think we should be sellers, with us aiming to demand a king's ransom for Weaver at the trading deadline.

WWSH

Trade values are going up. Burnett leads the Giants 2-0 in the 3rd. One of the runs came on a homer by Burnett, the other on a homer by Cabrera.

Mark Redman threw 8 shutout innings today for the Pirates, albeit against the Rockies.

miller pitched yesterday.
2IP 0ER 0H 0BB 3K

he pitched well, hes slowly building up his arm strength, they are taking it slow with him. the big news from vero was matt kemp, belted 2 homeruns and flew out to the wall in right field barely missing the hat trick in his final at bat.

kemp is tied with andy laroche for the FSL homerun lead.

i think the jax rotation is full.
billingsley
jackson
orenduff
jaurez
hanrahan

hmm, juarez just gave up a GS to jeremy hermida, maybe they will move him back to the bullpen and call up tiffany.

i wouldnt be opposed to calling up big tiff, his peripherals are great except the homerun rate. I am being optimisic and thinking that will progressively lower as he gets more mature.

Is anyone still in denial after today?

At least Erickson won't be closing anytime soon now.

What's up with the leadoff hitters?
First it was Izzy, now it's Robles.
Once they reach around .350 they go into a nose dive. Wonder if Robles will start next game.

Nate, is Tiff a high fastball pitcher who induces flyballs instead of groundballs? Is his stuff good enough to throw the high fastballs by the hitters.

If SD loses next game, every team in NL West is at .500 or worse.

Too bad there isn't a rule that states that a Division winner must have over .500 record to participate in playoffs.

The 2005 Dodgers would not like such a rule mandating a .500 record to make the playoffs.

The Dodgers are going to have to really get hot to finish with over 81 wins. I earlier predicted 68, but I think they can hit 75 now.

Since the Dodgers 12-2 start, they are 32-52 (.381)

The Padres went 22-6 in May and at the end of the month. They were 33-19. Since then they are 17-30 (.361)

Arizona was 30-22 at the end of May. Since then, (not counting today), the Diamondbacks have also gone 17-30.

NL West drops to 0-4 today as the Giants lose to the Marlins.

But Arizona leads Atlanta 3-2 in the 8th.

Nate, is Tiff a high fastball pitcher who induces flyballs instead of groundballs? Is his stuff good enough to throw the high fastballs by the hitters.

some of the questions regarding tiffany was that since he is not a very tall pitcher (roughly around 6'1-6'2), he has trouble staying on a downhill plane with his pitches and exposes his fastball in the upperzone.

his stuff is good. usually hitters can tell you how good a pitchers stuff is. his 6.83 hit rate and and 12.73 K rate last year combined with his 7.10 hit rate and 10.77 k rate are large enough sample sizes to conclude that his stuff is very good.

His stuff is probably comparable to barry zito but with a fastball that sits 2mph faster.

Bob as the father of 2 girls, 9 and 11, I am confident your 6 year old niece is not over the American Girl Doll thing. My 11 yr old still plays with hers (yes the S. Green one). Shopping on line there is as easy as it gets, espicially if you know which doll you niece has (ask her mom, they all come with specific histories.) You can buy here an outfit for her doll (approx $35-50, I think) (On the expensive side for a doll outfit). So as with most things in life, if you are willing to pay they make it easy on you. Good luck.

Does an interntional walk factor into your on base %?

LAT,
Thanks. She has a Kit, who has a backstory which is eerily similar to my mother's life. She picked it on her own despite being born several years after my mother passed away.

Bob my 9 yr old has Kit. She just likes to act as though she was born in the depression. She says any outfit is good for Kit.

I'm getting her a Kit-themed book about the Great Depression. Might as well get her learning about the New Deal at a young age.

The other neat thing about Tiffany is that he grew up a Dodger fan. I hope that in three or four years, we'll have at least two major stars on the team (Tiffany and Bradley) who grew up rooting for the blue, along with two successful Taiwanese players (Kuo and Hu).

WWSH

The Mets posters at Baseball Primer (some of the angriest people in the world) say that Omar Minaya wants to acquire Jeff Kent to play first base.

Just what the Mets could offer the Dodgers to make that deal palatable is interesting.

Has the subject of Charlie Steiner been thrown around lately? The combination of Charlie and Monday as our play be play options is poor, to say the least. Just get into the car, and want to know the score? Don't hold your breath...Steiner is so busy talking about what the Yankees or other teams are up to, he doesn't have time for it. Charlie, I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THE YANKEES. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I AM A DODGER FAN! OH YEAH, IT'S ALSO O AND 1, NOT "NOTHING AND 1"!!! Monday can garble a phrase with ackward wording unlike few in the business. You can't teach that kind of lack of timing...you have to be born with it. Two more depressing words: A MARTINEZ. Um...what was wrong with Ross? I can't remember, can you? He was professional and spared us the idiot buddy chatter. Lyons and Downing actually do alright...It is the play by play without Vin that is painful. Why can't we just simulcast his TV games? You don't miss anything, just like you don't in the first 3 innnings. Please, we don't have a million years left with Vin...let's hear him all we can.

Re: 128

Well, I for one have no desire to trade Kent. His contract is much too reasonable, he still produces at a tremendous level for a 2B, and he's the perfect stopgap for Aybar or Young.

WWSH

Re: 129

Is it really fair to compare anyone to Vin? Never mind Vin's justified status as a semi-divine figure, there's also the fact that I think comparing a two-man booth to Vin's solo performances is to some extent an issue of comparing apples to oranges.

I for one one like Steiner. Is he Vin? Of course, not, but I do prefer the Steiner/Monday team to Porter. And I think Monday actually works fairly well as a color commentator. Lyons is, well, I'm less satisfied with him.

I really do think Vin's the only broadcaster I've personally heard who can sustain the one-booth format. I actually prefer that--it cuts down on lame booth chatter--but only if there's someone like Vin in the booth who can make it work. I thought Porter was fine, but he and Monday could get downright dull at times, although the former was much better in my view than the latter.

The two man booth is here to stay, whether we like it or not, and I think Steiner and Monday do a good enough job of it.

Besides, people IMO need to stop comparing Steiner to Vin. It's like comparing Isaac Newton to an undergraduate physics major. What's the point? I've seen enough of other broadcast teams on Extra Innings in my view to say that there are much worse options out there.

WWSH

it would take alot for me to give up kent. he is our best hitter. trading him wont be completely conceeding.

but if they offered lastings milledge, yusmiero petit and gaby hernandez i would say "bye kent, you were an awesome dodger"

#132: While I like all three of those prospects, there's no way I would do that trade. We would need to get back near-ready major league talent for it to make any sense. Stacking up a bunch of talent with a 2007+ timeframe while cutting off our legs for 2005 and 2006 doesn't make much sense.

You have to remember that Mets fans always believe that their prospects are the greatest prospects ever.

The Mets fans at Baseball Primer are a very rowdy (and downright rude) bunch. I've never seen anybody here ever get as nasty as them.

While Steve wants to fire Jim Tracy and DFA Gio Carrara, what they wanted to do to Mike DeJean is not suitable for printing or even to be talked about during a screening of "The Aristocats".

A Joe Morgan moment: Cubs-Cardinals on ESPN Sunday Night. Jerry Hairston gets to 3-0 against Jeff Suppan to open the game. Then he takes two grooved strikes. Morgan: "Nice job by Hairston making him throw two strikes there." (Hairston then singled, but my comment arises in that moment when Hairston has just taken two pitches and Morgan has said "Nice job.")

Maybe it's good strategy to take two there no matter what, but the "nice job" part of what Hairston did was get to 3-0. I can take two pitches (I think, I might cringe or something). And getting back to 3-2 from 3-0 without swinging may be OK or unavoidable, but come on, it's not inherently good.

FB, petit is basically ready now. i would put him in the rotation next year.

milledge and hernandez wouldnt be ready for a couple of years but both of them do not need to be put on the 40 man roster, so that is a plus there.

and yes, mets fans overhype their prospects to a point where all they offer in trades is trash.

I think the key name to remember when the Mets deal prosects is: Alex Escobar.

I know he had a bad knee injury, but is he in anyone's organization now?

134. The Aristocrats! One of my favorite jokes. I'm looking forward to seeing the documentary.

The Mets fans comments about a Kent trade are toward the end of the thread:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/primer/gamechatter_discussion/30917/

I just realized I typed "Aristocats" instead of "Aristocrats".

I've actually seen the former. That's G-rated.

I feel sorry for people in the future who have Netflix and think they are getting a movie for their kids and instead get "The Aristocrats".

There's a good story about Gilbert Gottfried talking at a roast not long after 9/11. He did world trade center joked that resulted in dead silence. He saved himself by launching into a version of the Aristocrats that killed the place.

Well, those Mets fans don't seem to think they need to give up very much to get Kent. If Minaya's of the same opinion, no deal.

I'm with Fearing on this. At least Nate's scenario is plausible, considering the talent involved, but we've already got enough prospects, and trading Kent would open a big hole in the lineup for next season.

WWSH

I could only see Kent getting traded if he walked into McCourt's or DePodesta's office and demanded one. And I can't picture that he would want to play in New York.

Any Mets fan who thinks that Omar Minaya is smart enough to trade for Jeff Kent is deluding himself.

hmmm just thinking outloud here:

kent for petit, milledge and hernandez.

odalis, navarro and duaner sanchez to the reds for dunn.

Ahh, Alex Escobar is on the 60-day DL for Washington.

hahaha even though hes not doing the dodger game.

he just happened to bring up the dodger met game yesterday and the smart ball execution of the mets. unbelievable.

148,

I thought the exact same thing. Yeah, it's a brilliant play to have Carlos Beltran sacrifice early in the game.

It's even better to have a player hit a triple against a bad relief pitcher.

Re: 146

I would do that deal for Dunn in a heartbeat, but surely Cincy will be able to get more than that.

WWSH

148, 149: I, too, thought it was odd how Joe was attributing the Mets win to bunting when the tying and winning runs came from swinging away after failed bunts.

The air must be thin on Planet Second Base.

Re: 99
The best quote from:

http://www.dodgerplace.com/dunn.htm

"However, I don't understand why every hitter needs to be chosen by his on-base percentage. I know a team must have players on base to score runs, but I think looking at their batting average and the number of walks tell me enough about a player's ability to get on base."

I totally agree with the author... they should come up with a stat that looks at batting average and walks... Oh Yeah the already do!!! And I think its called ON BASE PERCENTAGE!

it seems that that column was written by a 15 year old.

152-153. You need to realize who the author is and cut her some slack. She has a serious physical disability. Plashcke wrote a big column on her.
Yes, the opinions she has don't make a lot of sense, but fisking her stuff is like pulling wings off flys.

154 Sorry, didn't realize she was.... er... challenged ... my bad.

Long time...

I've been insanely busy lately which is a good thing for me but bad for my DT time which I miss terribly. Anywho, the following e-mail just went out to the ten happy souls participating in this Wednesday's DT Adam Dunn Scouting Spectacular. In case any of the principals involved are checking DT before e-mail, here you go...

---------------------------------------------

Gentlemen,

"We few... we happy few... we band of brothers..."

It. Is. On.

I have in my possession ten tickets for this terribly important mission.
As you can see from above, there are nine names not including your humble
host. Here's what you need to know, step-by-step:

1. The game is this Wednesday, July 27th and starts at 7:10pm. I have
already purchased the tickets. All you have to do is get to the stadium.

2. I will be at the game very early (6:00pm at the latest). I will be
just outside the reserved level entrance, almost directly behind home
plate. If you are parked in lot 32 (and why would you be?) you can look
straight at it. I'm told it's the most "popular" reserved level entrance.

3. I will be wearing a Team Depo shirt which looks just like a Home Depot
ad (white shirt, orange square in the middle). I am 6-1 and I have very
short dark hair.

IMPORTANT: you can call me at (phone number), my mobile phone.

4. The tickets cost a total of (cost). You can pay me at the gate.

I have been and will be terribly busy for the next few days but please do
not hesitate to call me on the cell phone. This should be a lot of fun!
Thanks to all of you participating in this time of need.

Very best,

Suffering Bruin

Re: 156

I don't want to pry, but SB, does your kid look like he's going to be okay?

WWSH

The second base umpire just royally screwed the Cubs.

http://www.dodgerplace.com/my_struggles.htm

Plaschke's article on her was probably the most memorable thing he has done.....at least it is in my opinion.

155 - If I recall correctly, this is the girl who has to type out everything by holding a pen in her mouth to push each key down? Her devotion to the team is certainly incredible.

However, I would like to say that challenged people, of all stripes, generally appreciate it when they are treated as regular people and not as fragile china objects. This is not to say that I advocate sending her a rude e-mail about what she wrote, by any means. But if someone were to civilly tell her what OBP is, I'm sure she'd appreciate it. Sad to say, she probably has already gotten some rude e-mails and is feeling mortified, so this is moot anyway.

I think my point really is that it's a good idea to keep in mind that we don't know everything that's going on with someone else, especially strangers on the Internet, and so having a general policy of civility is advisable. The couple of times I forgot this, when younger, I ended up being mortified--one time, it turned out the poster had just buried her father a couple of hours earlier.

And now jumping to a sort-of related topic - while I don't wish to pry either, I join Wayne in hoping for the best with SB's kid.

grabowski principle

neifi perez with a GS in the top of the 10th

161 -- As it was happening, I didn't quite believe it was happening, though it will be a boost to the nascent Neifi is better than Carlos Beltran movement.

I would send Sarah of Dodgerplace an email telling her that you read her piece and disagreed with it. I think as long as it has a polite tone she'll respond to you.

She loves the Dodgers. And I never quite figured out how a woman in Texas developed such an affinity for the Dodgers, but the Big Dodger in the Sky moves in mysterious ways.

154, 160 -- Again, it also needs to be remembered that Plaschke "discovered" her when she sent him an e-mail telling him he was being an idiot for wanting to give $50 million to Charles Johnson. She's wrong about Adam Dunn, but no more so than Fearing Blue, that long-haired Ozzie Guillen hippy reject. :)

Bob...

IIRC, Plaschke mentioned that Sarah moved from Pasadena (CA) to Texas. It's also mentioned on her site.

Eric beat me to it. She grew up in Pasadena and went to school there.

FWIW, she doesn't like DodgerPlace referred to as a blog. I got scolded for it :)

163 - Bob, I read the piece that Identity Crisis linked to, and in it Sarah mentions that she and her family were living in Pasadena before their move to Texas.

And Steve's right too, Sarah is by no means alone in her opinion of Adam Dunn. In addition to Fearing Blue, there's plenty of posters over at Athletics Nation who don't want to see Dunn on the Athletics for much the same reasons.

Myself, I'm ambivalent. I wouldn't mind seeing Dunn on the Dodgers as long as we don't give up too much for him, but I'm not screaming for him, either. That's because I suspect that I would probably want his head on a pike in 35 games or so, not so much because of his K rate as because of his defense.

157 and others....

Thanks very much for the kind thoughts. I realize two things: I haven't posted in a while and one of my last posts was about my kid having some health issues. I hope I wrote that what he's going through is not fatal.

When my son bleeds beyond a normal cut, he doesn't clot right away and his doctors aren't sure why. A kid getting six stitches isn't supposed to be a terribly big deal but my guy didn't stop bleeding even after being stitched up. He eventually did stop but it took much longer than normal.

Where this really gets bad, of course, is in case of any accidents beyond a "normal" cut because who knows when he'll stop bleeding or how he'll stop bleeding. It doesn't seem that bad because it's not fatal but then again, it's pretty worrisome. I didn't think I'd be posting on this but after reading about the kid with a rare form of cancer on the very day all this came down with my son, well, I felt the need to write something. I feel a little weird imposing this stuff on the forum but I'm grateful for the thoughtful comments.

I've been insanely busy with studying to be a teacher in the fall so I haven't been able to keep up with things. That changes on Wednesday, of course. Thanks again, folks. This is one terrific forum.

I need to develop an opinion about Adam Dunn. I just assume that the Dodgers would never acquire him.

I want to focus on whether or not Jason Repko is the Dodgers best choice for the fifth outfielder.

Not imposing at all, my friend.

And...I'm going on Wednesday! Thanks, SB!

I will be with everyone in spirit. Wondering why nobody else is posting during the game. Most likely because everybody is at the game.

I watched part of the Giant Marlin game today and can see why so many people are interested in AJ Burnet. SInce Florida has lowered the price-no more Mike Lowell, I wonder if the Dodgers could get involved and perhaps find the right prospects to get Burnett and then flip Weaver to CHicago for Everett. The Dodgers definitely need a bat. While everyone seems to think that Adam Dunn is the Dodger answer, I question that considering how many of his homers have been at home, his strikeouts are very high and his defense is not great. My guess he has at most 12 homers left-this accounts for change of parks, and that is not going to be enough to take us over.

wow everyone, apparently willie randolph came from the same line of thinking and steve lyons.

from mets.com

In an offhanded, hardly unprecedented remark Friday night, Mets manager Willie Randolph said "You know, a three-run homer can kill momentum."

Thankfully missed the game again today. Still only 5-1/2 games out, so not all is lost. The Padres are in first place and only 1 game over .500, and would be in last place in the NL East. That's pretty wild stuff.

The possible Phil Nevin trade, is this a salary dump? I don't think Padre fans should be too happy about obtaining Randa, just happy that Burroughs will be battling Grabowski in AAA ball.

The Dodgers better beat up on the Reds, because after they leave the Cardinals are in town, and the Cards seem to have the Dodgers #.
vr, Xei

SB,

I didn't get your group e-mail. Does this mean I'm not going on Wednesday?

If I'm not, then I'm afraid I can't let you use the "DT Adam Dunn Scouting Trip" title without paying me some royalties for it.

Prediction an 81-81 record will win the NL West.

Re: 168

You weren't imposing at all, SB. I can understand how this is worrisome. Hopefully it'll all work out. At least the doctors know about it, so they can start to get to the bottom of it, or you can at least be prepared for any future problems.

WWSH

174 - From what I can gather, the Nevin trade is a was salary-wise. Both are making about $8M through next year. This assumes no money changes hands in the deal.

Moving Nevin opens up a spot for Nady everyday, but taking on Ponson seems like a pretty steep price to pay.

172 - Dunn is arbitration eligible and would be property of the Dodgers through next year (albeit at ~$10M). This wouldn't be a deal for this year only. An OF of Dunn, Milton, Drew with the Ledee/Werth combo backing them up seems prett strong to me.

Nevin trade is a wash salary-wise.

I'm just hoping we can sweep the Reds and steal 1 (or even 2!) from the Cards. That should put is within 4.5 or even better if we get lucky.

I missed DT over the weekend. I came back to my apartment Friday to find the internet connection and the TV not working. I didn't even know the score from yesterday's game til I got to work a few minutes ago.

Before anticipating any sweep remember that the Dodgers record is a grand total of 2 games better than Cincinnati's.

But the Reds are 11-31 on the road.

If Bob is going to the game on Wednesday, there definitely won't be a Los Angeles sweep.

Just ask Jason Ellison.

Bob's not going, Icaros...did you get in touch with SB?

Yes, I finally did. I'll be there.

Excellent!