Trade Saenz? Fine with me, but who would want him? Do you think an AL team in need of a stick would give us anything of value? I agree with Steve, unless you think Saenz at age 35 is your possible first baseman of the future, give Choi more at bats. Start him against all RHP no matter what arm angle or hair style the pitcher has. Against LHP I would still give Choi atleast 1/2 or more of the starts. He needs to see more lefties, how else can he improve? If the season is lost then go ahead and trade Saenz, Izturis and Brazoban to an AL team or whoever thanks they are valuable... of course getting Plashke's blessing first. :)
vr, Xei

I was at that game, I had field level first base side.

By the end of the game we were standing on our chairs....

Awesome!

Trade Choi for the recently-DFA'd Al Leiter.

#2 field level first base side SEATS

If there's a market for Alex Cora, there's probably a market for Saenz. I'm not expecting Albert Pujols in return.

do u think there is a chance that Kent is moved? i mean if I was a playoff bound team I can't think of a guy who gets paid at market or below, for only another year and a proven producer having a great season.

Maybe we can package Kent and Weaver for a prospects?

6. I don't see any way that Kent is traded for prospects. He's arguably our best hitter, plays solid defense and can hit well against a multitude of arm angles. It would take quite a package of prosepcts (which we already have plenty of) for me to want to trade Kent. Weaver on the otherhand is fair game...
vr, Xei

It usually takes me three or four more threads to make it to the green.

A lot of people would like to see Choi play more. It's probably not going to happen. I use a qualifier only because no one really knows what Tracy might do next. But based on the season so far there is no reason to expect Tracy to change how he uses Choi. Potential trades might change that but I think if we see Choi getting more playing time it would indicate that Tracy has given up on this season.

8. Kent makes the 2006 team a serious pennant contender. I hope.

I just want to note that you are now my biggest hero, Jon, for continuing to remind everyone out there that, yes, there is an Anti-Karros Marching & Chowder Society.

"The season's still early ..."

8 means 6 in 9.

Random Dodger game callback

July 14, 1885

Despite pounding out five extra base hits off of Louisville pitcher Guy Hecker, Brooklyn lost at Eclipse Park 10-7 before a crowd of 1200 after committing 8 errors, 5 passed balls, and 3 wild pitches. Visiting Brooklyn fell to 22-37 and was 21 ½ games behind the first place St. Louis Browns and in seventh place in the American Association.

Brooklyn was in for a long day when starting catcher Frank Bell, who had already allowed three passed balls, hurt his hand in the second inning and had to be replaced by Jimmy Peoples, who allowed two more. Meanwhile Brooklyn pitcher John Harkins was in constant trouble as his nearly everyone on his defense was committing an error. Shortstop Germany Smith made 3.

Louisville led 6-1 after six before Brooklyn mounted a comeback against Hecker, one of the greatest all-around players in 19th century baseball. In 1885, Hecker batted .273 and also played some first base and outfield when not pitching. Hecker was 30-23 with a 2.17 ERA in 1885.

Brooklyn, which won just 40 games in its inaugural AA season in 1884, improved to 53-59 in 1885 (the same record Louisville would finish with), although that was only good for fifth place, 26 games behind St. Louis, which won the AA with a 79-33 (.705) record. Chicago won the NL with an 87-25 record (.777). The two teams met in a postseason series and played seven games and split them 3-3-1. This didn't sit well with people at the time.

Brooklyn started the season under the management of Charlie Hackett, but he lasted just 37 games, before another Charlie, surnamed Byrne, took over on June 15.

Catcher was a troublesome position for Brooklyn all year. A combination of injuries (understandable with the rudimentary equipment of the time) and ineffectiveness saw 10 different players behind the plate. However, Brooklyn used just four pitchers all year. In addition to Harkins, Henry Porter and Adonis Terry combined to start all but one game for the team that year. The other start went to a 20-year old named Phenomenal Smith. (Phenomenal being a catchier name than John apparently.) Smith gave up 18 runs, 11 earned in his only start of the season for Brooklyn on June 17 against the Browns. Smith would end up with a respectable career in the majors however. And he lived to be 87 years old and would see Brooklyn win eight pennants before he passed away in April of 1952.

Thanks to the NY Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

OT: Xei do wish for us to send you our IPs guess or is posting here fine? I posted in the last thread but I'll do it again here if it helps:
Penny 7 1/3.

I am certainly not saying I want to and yes I totally agree that Kent is the man and I have gained alot of respect for him etc...

But it is possible that Depo has gone to him to say hey look if I can't buy something that will help this year, would you want a shot at a ring if I can make it happen for you?

Of course, this would be not only waving the white flag, but running away to hide as well.

Saenz would make a nice acquisition for a playoff contender that can't hit left-handed pitching. (Texas.)

Did they have catcher's masks back in 1885?

If there's a market for Alex Cora, there's probably a market for Saenz.

But he's hitting an awfully smart .198!

There were catcher's masks back in 1885. But there weren't the big gloves that you see now. And I don't believe all the chest protectors and shinguards were in use.

I think the main injuries were broken fingers. The catchers tended to crouch well behind home plate. Once the catcher could move up closer to the plate, the dynamics of the game changed.

13. Yeah I got it. I would say email it to me, otherwise it's easy to miss if I'm not online at DT. So far, we got 3 out of 4 picks for tonight. You are up against Howard. He went with 8-IPs, and you went with 7 1/3. Anything less than 7 2/3 and you win, anything more than that and he wins, 7 2/3 on the nose is a tie. Still waiting for CT Bum to give me his IP guess. I picked 7 IPs. Howard already gave me his picks for the whole series, if you want to you can email them to me in advance given that you know who the starting pitcher is going to be. But you can wait til the game day, or change them up until game time or knowing what your opponent picked. :)
vr, Xei

19 - Yeah, I'll take it day-by-day but will e-mail to you. Thanks.

DT Over/Under Challenge.
Grabowski Flight:
7/14: Giants vs Brad Penny

Colorado Blue: 7 1/3
Howard: 8

CT Bum: 7 1/3
Xeifrank: 7

I'm going to the game tonight; it'll be my first visit ever to Dodger Stadium. Perhaps I'll see a double-no-hitter!

What should I eat?

The Dodgers have optioned outfielder Cody Ross and recalled reliever Steve Schmoll, according to today's press notes.

Ken, it's protocol: You have to start with hot dogs if it's your first visit. But I would go for the all-beef dog in addition to the Dodger Dog.

Why won't Erickson die?!

Ken,
Dodger Stadium doesn't have a lot of food specialities, aside from the Dodger Dog. Other than that, I doubt there's anything special.

If you wish to consume copious amounts of starch lined with garlic, you can get the garlic fries, but it's not like you can't get those in Oakland.

I have to have two dogs? Wow, OK.

Please give us your first timer impressions of Dodger Stadium tomorrow, Ken. We're all still kind of proud of it.

Ken, go to Phillipe before the game for some real food. Skip the dogs at the stadium, unless Jodi Maroni is still there. Enjoy the game! It's a beautiful stadium.

22. If you are going to eat at the stadium make sure you bring an extra arm and a leg. :)
Everyone has their favorite restaraunt outside the stadium they like to eat at before the game. Personally, when I do make it to a Dodger or Laker game early enough to eat out (which is rare with the traffic situation, driving from out of town), I like to head over to Chinatown and get some boiled pork dumplings and a few other items off the menu that I probably can't pronounce or spell correctly. Have fun and get us a win and a 7 IP performance from Penny!
vr, Xei

28. kind of?

i second phillipe's. it's close to the stadium anyway.

Ken,
Make sure you walk through one of the pavilions with a Giants cap and t-shirt. Preferably with "Bonds 25" on the back of it.
But before you leave, please change your will to make your main beneficiary.

Guys, if it's his first trip to the stadium, let him (so to speak) eat at the stadium. The more time in the place, the better.

I also wouldn't want to give directions to Philippe's to someone who hasn't been to Downtown L.A. before. It's not hard to find, but it's hard to describe just where it is.

Well, it's sort of near Union Station and Olvera Street....

I think Ken will enjoy the stadium's aesthetics, but a hot night, two bad teams, general bad blood will likely lead to a group of unpleasant fans.

I predict the first boo of a Dodger player in the first inning!

Fearing Blue threw out the numbers for Dodgers 3B's... how does Saenz compare with Perez?

And how does Perez compare with Werth?

If we really need Saenz in the line-up, if he's not much worse than Perez (not an unreasonable expectation), then can't Perez replace Werth in LF and Saenz take over 3rd? Leaving Choi at 1st?

I just thought of this now and don't have time to look up stats. What do you think?

I've suggested putting Perez in left, although a) I still believe Werth is going to improve as the season goes on, and b) some have suggested that Perez in left would make Roger Cedeno look like the Gold Glover he always wanted to be.

Saenz cannot play third except on a spot basis. He just can't.

Mike Scioscia just called Bill Stoneman and told him to offer the sun, moon, and stars for Robinson Cano.

Man, it does feel like forever since I've seen a Dodger game.

Jon, is Perez that bad defensively at left. It painful obvious that Perez can't play adequate defense in the infield so maybe we can try him at left. Perez is faster and has better arm than Edwards.

39 - I don't know - it's just a complete educated guess.

Since we have shortage of outfielders, we can give Perez a shot at left.

37 - Bad deal. Maybe for Robinson Checo...

I heard Robinson Crusoe had a good arm.

Dodgers who can play today and career stats against Jason Schmidt

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE WARNING

Chen 0 for 1, 1 K, 1 BB
Choi 0 for 13, 8 K, 1 BB
Dessens 0 for 1
Edwards 0 for 0, 1 BB
Kent 5 for 21, 3 K, 2 BB
Ledee 2 for 6, 1 K
Lowe 0 for 3
Penny 0 for 3
A Perez 2 for 4, 1 K
O Perez 0 for 11, 7 K
Phillips 0 for 6, 2 K, 1 BB
Saenz 1 for 3, 2 K
Weaver 1 for 1
Werth 0 for 3, 3 K

Giants who can play today against Brad Penny

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE WARNING
Alou 5 for 11, 1 2B, 1 BB
Cruz 3 for 3, 1 2B, 1 HR
Durham 0 for 5
Feliz 2 for 9, 1 2B, 4 K
Matheny 1 for 5, 1 BB, 1 K
Rueter 2 for 4
Sanchez 6 for 12, 2 2B, 1 3B, 3 K
Schmidt 2 for 5, 1 K
Snow 3 for 12, 2 2B, 1 BB, 2 K
Tomko 0 for 2
Torrealba 1 for 6, 1 K
Tucker 1 for 7, 1 BB
Vizquel 2 for 4, 1 K

I'd hate to see Saenz at third. He can barely touch the ground with his glove lately. Old Maid is a perfect nickname for him. He looks ancient.

For those who are really into math and lineup orders, you can visit this:
http://tinyurl.com/99xkm

Interesting that Cody Ross was sent down and Chen wasn't. Since Schmoll is coming up, that means that we have 12 pitchers and 13 positional players. I think we have 1 too many pitcher (Erickson) and we need one more player coming off the bench.

I've agreed with that all season, ddger. But what can you do - Erickson continues to be buoyed by his save against the Bears and is biding his time until officially becoming the closer.

Troy Percival is back on the DL? You're kidding me. That must be an AP prank or something.

Haha. Stupid Yankees ran their way out of the first inning.

Red Sox 4, Yankees 0.

46. Unfortunately Tinyurl doesn't work on the computer I am using, nor does Tiny Bubbles. Is the original link name toooooo long to post? If so, that's fine. But definitely a topic I am interested and have done some research on.
vr, Xei

http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/lineup_art.htm

51 - Time to upgrade from that Sinclair, XF :)

44. Choi 0 for 13 with 8Ks and Saenz 1 for 3, that means it's almost a sure thing that Buntermaker will start the Old Maid-o.
vr, Xei

It's a really long article. I just skipped to the conclusion. Which was that the author, Tom Ruane, believes that lineup order makes no difference.

52. Thanks, bookmarked it for later enjoyment. I am interested, because I once wrote a simulator that did all permutations of lineups simulating thousands and thousands of games. Wierd thing was there was always a lineup in the top 10 that had the pitcher hitting in the top 5 of the lineup. Then looking at the overall distribution it looked like a normal bell curve, which led me to believe that the results were more random than anything else. And on top of that every time I reran the simulation a different set of lineups would crack the top 10. There just isn't much of a difference between most lineups to make a difference. The simulation still has a few upgrades it needs before I'd ever report any of my findings as true. But it's always fun to dig into these things, even though much smarter people have probably done the same or similiar.
vr, Xei

Later... see you during the game, most likely.
vr, Xei

saenz is a good player to have, and i like the guy, so this isn't meant to be a knock on his ability or quality as a human being... but olmedo is seriously the dumpiest looking baseball player i've ever seen.

Ron Coomer begs to differ.

hahahah

coomdog may have been a little fatter, but i think olmedo's gray hair and constant lack of facial expression give him the edge for the dumpy-looking crown.

58. Terry Forster!!!!

#61 - Pitchers don't count when talking about dumpy players. They deserve their own category - call it the "Rick Reuschel".

he's a pitcher! can pitchers be dumpy? i dunno. dennys reyes, i guess?

i still think saenz takes the cake, though.

You have a point Vishal. Let me see....I can't think of position player dumpier-looking. Though Phillips, on our team too, is close.

well, by the time he got to san francisco, i guess reuschel was a good example:

http://tinyurl.com/cd5zc

Bartolo Colon?

Don't forget the Bambino.

Matt Stairs for a position player?

Jon, I feel half-vindicated. I'm shot down on my Joe Morgan-like perceptions of Choi's power contributions. And yet feel a lot of support for my disdain for Eric Karros if there's now an award named for the player who does the opposite of him.

May we all aspire to be anti-Karros in every sphere of our lives!

One of my friends has long advocated that the Dodgers should just get the fattest players they can find. His logic is, that team would be fun to watch whether they were winning or losing (mostly losing).

Coomer is always one of the first players he mentions, along with Livan, Colon, Daryle Ward, and others.

haha oh man, bartolo!! he's perfect! he's even got the facial expression thing going. and he's not a terrible player, either.

i think the key is that being dumpy is more than just a physical thing. it's also a state of mind. i mean, carlos zambrano, david ortiz... they're a little on the fat side (well, ortiz more than a little), but neither of them are dumpy.

Mickey Hatcher was also not exactly a well-put together individual.

Mo Vaughn?

El Guapo - Rich Garces.

i think the key is that being dumpy is more than just a physical thing.

Alex Cora

Shaquille O'Neal, circa spring 2004.

One more before I have to go to the Stadium: The late, great Thurman Munson.

In fact that whole '77 Yankee team was frightening to look at. Lyle, Pineilla, Nettles and above all Billy Martin, who looked like what he was, a last-stages alcoholic.

Yogi Berra was another. Duke Snider wasn't much of an adonis.

75. that suggestion raises the following existential question: can one be scrappy and dumpy at the same time?

i'm thinking not.

78 -- That sounds like a job well-suited for the joint efforts of the West Coast Institute For The Study Of The Grabowski Principle.

And you can't be heart and soul and fat.

80 -- which explains me, I guess.

Robles
Edwards
Kent 1B
Phillips
A Perez 2b
Werth
Grabowski
Repko
Penny

vs

Tucker
Vizquel
Snow
Alou
Durham
Feliz
Matheny
Ellison
Schmidt

#82 - sigh

No Choi, back to studying, I guess.

#36: Saenz has better defensive stats at 3B than Edwards. But I agree on the Perez assessment in LF. I believe he's only played one game there in his professional career.

58,et al - My friend Corey Fielder's brother, Cecil.

Great memory and the Saenz start points up the current problems on the team. Saenz would make a great pinch hitter for a contending team, which in a few more weeks the Dodgers will no longer be. I just wonder who we could get for him. Sadly I think the best we get for him is a triple A prospect similiar to Henry Stanley, who at best will only be a September call up. So at the end of the day even if it makes things for the Dodgers more difficult we are probably better with Saenz, even taking some Choi at bats then trading him for nothing. However, once we are more offically eliminated that will change.

#84: And I agree that Saenz is horrible at 3B, it's just amusing that his stats are better.

I believe Chen is out of options which would explain why they sent down Ross instead. At this point, I would DFA Grabowski before cutting ties with Chen.

Who knows what the voices tell Jim Tracy late at night, but Kent is playing first base for the foreseeable future because of the hammy.

i am starting to really hate tracy. i realize that tracy sees choi as a backup player, but i still hate tracy.

choi should be in the lineup. if anything, to give it more variety with another lefty.

#88: Where did you hear that?

#89: Especially since Perez is teetering on the edge of his impending fall towards mediocrity. DePodesta clearly has an ample amount of patience (Erickson, Grabowski, Tracy), though I'm not so sure that's a good thing.

90 -- Nowhere. I'm just assuming it. He came out of the ASG after one at-bat. He was pulled early in a couple (or more) of the games last week.

Or you could look at it the other way. If it is not the hammy, then this is managerial malpractice on a grand scale. Like many things this year, I'm comfortable with either way you want to look at it.

#92: Choi is 0 for 13 against Schmidt. Tracy "likes the way Perez looks" at 2B. Tracy clearly does not like the way Choi looks anywhere. I'm going to go for managerial malpractice for $100, Alex.

Did either of the Dodgers' all-stars end up in the game? Man I hate the all-star break. I toughed out the first round of the HR derby (Our Loving Savior acquitted himself well enough), but the whole thing stinks. Three days without any real baseball. In the middle of summer. It's like having Yom Kippur fall on Thanksgiving.

#93: Of course, Kent's hamstring injury will likely be the postgame story no matter what the true reasoning is.

94 - see 92.

Steve answers my question before I even ask it. Freaky.

#92 - what's the standard of care required to establish managerial malpractice? Perhaps managing tall-slow-high-strikeout-high-power-Koreans is like the rule of perpetuities, and it's too difficult to ever expect someone to do correctly.

Seriously though, while I hope that it's because of Kents legs, I'm just assuming that Tracy would use that as excuse for the real motivation of relegating Choi to the bench permanently.

Damn he makes it hard to like this team sometimes.

Schilling coming into Boston-Yankee game from bullpen. See if this sounds framiliar: TV doesn't cut away for run from bullpen, crowd on its feet, and the worst cut of all, playing Welcome to the Jungle (Guns N Roses). Ouch!

95 -- Well, that's what I'm getting at I guess. Jon is completely correct that Choi is the backup first baseman. It's just that events have conspired to give him a backup story.

Of course, it's hardly like Tracy needs an excuse. The fans must have their sacrifice, and anything to keep Edwards, Repko and Grabowski in the lineup is good enough for them.

You can play the music but you can't be the man: Schilling gives up double to Sheffield

97 - Damn. Same timestamp.

Schilling experiment not going well: 2R HR for A-Rod

Start the panicking already. Schilling gives up 2 runs.

I think Theo Epstein is on the phone to Ed Wade now asking him what he wants for Billy Wagner.

Thank you Michael Tucker!

Boy. That was bad baserunning.

98 -- Is it the "reasonable manager" standard, or the subjective "same age, experience and intelligence" used for minors? I do know that insanity is no defense to an intentional tort like playing Mike Edwards at third.

Michael Tucker is a straight, absolute, jackass. And so much for Kent outplaying His High Holiness at first.

Hey, didn't you used to be Curt Schilling?

50

Do you mean All Star (1999) first baseman Ron Coomer?

I'd like to think that Kent is at first to protect his hamstring but it certainly wouldn't be the first time Tracy chose to play someone out of position over playing Choi.

Kent tries to atone.

110 -- Oh God. Grabowski at first. Please, please burn that out of my brain. If I ever end up at Guantanamo Bay, an endless loop of watching that will be my torture.

Actually Vinnie, the last name is more like 'ah-low-u'

Alou pronounced Allow? Boy, that really screws up my Boog Alou Powell joke.

Don't forget Nakamura at first. He wasn't too handy over there. Which was weird because he could play both third and short.

#105 - knowing Ed Wade, he's probably asking for bullpen help

In re: Schilling...the announcers are POSITIVE that Schilling should not be brought into this role ever again. I've heard no mention of the fact that the two hits were by 2 of the 10 best hitters in baseball, A-Rod and Sheff.

#108 - I think that a .500 record would probably qualify as a defense. Unless you play for the Yankees, where not winning the Series is grounds for dismissal.

I think Schilling may have ended his career with last season's heroics. He didn't seem terribly impressive in his minor league rehab either. All the Yankee bellyaching that he wasn't really all that hurt last post-season looks even lamer now.

I'm resigned to Choi not playing much, even if Saenz is traded away, but I want Tracy fired at season's end. Simple as that. I think DePo will try to get him to play Choi by trading away Saenz, but Tracy will respond by playing Perez at 2B and Kent at 1B. I hope that would be the final straw, and DePo then lets Tracy ago in the winter.

I think we will get to see Choi succeed in Dodger blue, but it'll be next season as opposed to this one.

WWSH

113 - Yeah, but then we'd have to say ah-low-ud.

Someone want to describe that the Kent play for those of us stuck in the Midwest?

Which one?
Kent fielded all three balls.

On Vizquel's, Kent fielded the grounder, threw low to second, the ball skipped past Robles, but not very far. Tucker tried to go third and was a dead duck.

On Snow's, Kent knocked down the grounder and ran it over to the bag.

On Alou's, it was a routine play.

Schilling's career is just over, regardless of when he comes in, because he is old and injured. Rick Sutcliffe is borderline retarded.

#120 - it was the error I was talking about. Thanks.

119 - How about all three.

One - Kent gets short hopped and mishandles the ball. He fires the ball on a bounce to Robles who drops it. Tucker decides to go to third for some inexplicable reason and gets thrown out by 10 feet.

Two - Kent has his momentum going towards second when Snow smashes one down the first base line. Kent knocks it down and gets Snow at first.

Three - Kent gets a routing grounder.

115 -- And second!

So Izturis is eligible to come off the DL tomorrow. So, today's move with Ross is just a prelude. When Izturis gets activated, let's see if they stay with 12 pitchers. Could be so, if Alvarez is ready.

I just realized why Phillips is hitting cleanup. It's the 39 RBIs. I mean, that doesn't really explain it, but that's what it is. He's like the Encarnacion of catchers. I guess it's time to hate him too. Too bad. I liked when he took on Simers and the fact that he makes 20 times less than the King of Big Screens.

Phillips pops out.

A 713 OPS is fine for a Dodger catcher, but why, why is he batting clean-up? Then again, looking at the rest of the lineup, I doubt it'd make much of a difference.

WWSH

Paul DePodesta: You see, something's going to happen. You must leave.
Scott Erickson: What? What's going to happen?
DePodesta: Something wonderful.
Erickson: What?
DePodesta: I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful.

Re: 126

The RISP numbers are actually a decent excuse for Phillips as no. 4, simply because do we really have anyone better for that spot?

WWSH

I really can't believe Phillips is still batting cleanup. That's just crazy.

Then again, this is coming from the guy who decided to write all 150 pounds of himself into the lineup as cleanup hitter for his softball team out of frustration for everyone else sucking. So I might not have the best judgment.

But looking at the 8 guys in the lineup, I've got no idea how I'd seriously order them. I see one 3/4 hitter (Kent), one 5/6 hitter (Werth), and a bunch of 7/8 hitters. So it probably doesn't even matter.

Vin has had a real crush on Pedro Feliz all year.

129 -- Well, Choi, but he's easily confused by strange arm angles, unlike, say, Phillips or Grabowski or Edwards or Repko.

Re: 130

When I looked at the rest of the lineup and their OPSs, man it was depressing. Pathetic, just pathetic.

Vin said the official line--Kent's getting the hammy right. Fine, I'll give Trace the benefit of the doubt. But playing Edwards for Choi is just such obvious folly.

WWSH

What kind of world is it where Matheny has nine homeruns and 42 RBI?

Where was Ray Durham going? The Giants are really, really stupid, I mean, well-managed.

132 - Yeah, that overhand style can be baffling to a young player.

DBacks with a 1-0 lead over the Padres.

I'm thinking of the race for second place.

134 Its a Mad Mad Mad World.
AMC Channel, 7/14/05 9:00

As baffling as a routine fly ball to right field with one out, apparently

when will antonio regress to the mean?

#135 - and what kind of world is it that "really stupid" and "well-managed" seemed to be synonimous (sp?) with each other.

137 Daughter looking over my shoulder wants me to point out D'Back 1-0 lead was a 2 out RBI by Green.

138,

The Dodgers are looking for a big W also.

141 -- That would be "Major League Baseball"

3-0 Arizona now.

Who's Green?

Good one Bob, I was thinking how to work the big W in and I missed that one.

I really thought Werth would have a much better second half.

Sigh....

WWSH

Goldfish - 2
Tracy - 0

Back in the 1970s, my late mother bemoaned all the Jasons I was in school with and said that in the future that everybody would be named Jason and it would drive her crazy.

You were right Mom.

138. LAT. That's one of my favorite movies. Extremely corny, but I laugh every time. But AMC butchers it with commercials and not running it letterbox format.

Let's just ban the stolen base. And the bunt. Period. No more of that stuff in LA.

And that's the Dodger rally, folks. Don't forget to stop by the concession booths on the way out of the stadium.

AMC butchers every movie now.

david sutherland has has 39 hits in 87 at bats, and yet, only THREE for xtra bases.

how the hell does that work?

Ogden has little gaps. :)

2010, Bob? Oof.

It isn't like we were going to score with Repko and Penny coming up, but at least we would have gotten through one of there ABs. How about that stellar Grabbo-Repko-Pitcher trio at the bottom. Who needs a DH with that kind of top to bottom hitting depth? Stick Perez in Left, let Grabbo rot on the bench, move Kent back to 2B and stick Choi on 1B. How can every position be injured, except for 1B, and Tracy use 1B to rehab Kent? Let gimpy play second, it isn't like he can do worse than Perez.

knowing Ed Wade, he's probably asking for bullpen help

Now that's very funny. This whole thread made a pretty good read. And, I could check in with Perez on first, read it, and come back with Schmidt out of the inning and not need to ever find out how.

penny is a team player. he doesnt strike people out because he wants to keep the defense involved in the game.

that big lug!

I was wondering if anyone would catch on to the "2010" reference. But Icaros (a big Arthur C. Clarke fan) isn't around.

Which is why he isn't complaining about my joke about Jasons.

151 - No kidding, Marty. I saw it as a kid at the Cinerama theater (in Cinerama Vision!).

Marty, I've been in Vegas the last couple of days. Woke up this morning and it was on TV. Can't explain it but there was something special about watching it in Vegas While still in bed, of course). Wife had never seen it. She didn't get it. I kept saying "come here come here this part is great" and she looked at me like I was out of my mind. I'm calling my lawyer tomorrow.

Penrod and Sam
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022261/combined

Based on the novel by Booth Tarkington.

The last time the Dodgers beat Schmidt:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B04160SFN2004.htm

3-2 Dodgers win.
All 3 runs driven in by Bradley on groundouts to score Roberts.

162. 163. Some people hate it (and the ending is weak). A few years ago I tried to impress a ladie with my movie taste. I have it on DVD and popped it in. She sat there stone-faced the whole 3 hours. I was doing tha same thing as you. "this is a really good part" etc. It was a little uncomfortable.

make that lady. I'm not that good.

Penny, you idiot.

Well, that sucked. Ridiculous call, now we can enjoy an outing from Erickson now.

So does Penny have Philips deliberately miss a good fastball so the umpire can "catch" it?

damnit!!!!! bye penny :(

Women hate MMMW.

That's absurd that Penny got thrown out. The umpires are so embarrassing.

Somebody go wake up Elmer.

oh, did he just get tossed?

WTF!? Penny is called out on a dropped ball, because he supposedly made a turn. Vin conceded he took one step, but that just did not look like a "turn" to me. Total BS play. And Penny's thrown out.

WWSH

Nice call blue. Geez these guys are really incompetent.

Is he tossed? Please tell me this isn't the case.

Penny got tossed for throwing the helmet towards the dugout. That's a minor league call by the plate umpire.

Re; 177

Tossed. DJ's warming up. Unbelievable.

WWSH

In the words of Hawk Harrelson:

He gone.

And so it goes. Bad call by the first basee umpire, followed by a ridiculous toss by the home plate umpire. Penny was on his way back into the dugout with his back to the umpire when he was tossed.

We need Enders. He's by the far leader in vitriol directed to umpires of anyone on this site.

Or even by far the leader.

Tossed for throwing his helmet. Come On! That is weak.

hes tossed. because he threw his helmet.... towards the dodger dugout.

Re: 181

Penny wasn't even that teeed off before he was tossed. It was a close play at the very least--the umpires should have let him show a little frustration. Ridiculous.

WWSH

I was wondering where Enders had been; "by the far leader in vitriol" made a certain amount of sense.

To be Vin for a moment, I lip-read the ump saying, "It's what he said" when he was talking to Tracy in the dugout.

There was no way the gesture of throwing the helmet on the ground toward the dugout, away from the umps, justified the ejection.

We get NO breaks this season it seems. NONE.

WWSH

Hmm... It's almost like the umps needed to meet a monthly quota or they don't get paid.

I Tivo-it. The most interesting part was it looked to me like Vizsuel's foot came off the bag at second when he caught the ball.

That would be Vizquel.

The worst part about it is I could see all that developing in my mind as soon as I saw the umpire moving towards first.

It did - that's why Repko was safe.

Trace looks like he's keeping himself from boiling over also. He had a chat with the home plate ump about warm-up pitches.

WWSH

188 - the replay showed the ump throw him out immediately after Penny threw the helmet, as he had already made his way past the ump. Plate umpire probably realizes what a bush league call that was and trying to cover himself with the "it's what he said" line.

Vizquel was cheating at second and hoping for a neighborhood play.

Both teams are showing why they are well below .500.

I thought it was a good call by the first base umpire, and an embarrassingly fireable offense to throw Penny out for nothing.

Duh! I thought they called Repko out. Just ignore me.

196 - Exactly. It just doesn't add up. Unless Penny said something at the exact moment he soft-tossed the helmet, it looks like the ejection was an over-reaction to the helmet that the ump was covering for.

But maybe Penny said the Carlin seven words just as he threw the plastic sombrero.

Re: 196

These umps are full-timers, right? I think Vin would have mentioned if it was a minor-league ump called up for short-term duty.

WWSH

196 -- agree. Umpire is lying.

Gotta love the umpires making a tough situation worse. This is like when you try to steal a pot in poker, someone raises and you go all in knowing you are going to lose (sorry for the poker analogy, but it seems appropriate). The umpires rather than show any sympathy boot Penny. If this was Yankees v Red Sox this would be the opening montogue on SC.

Re: 198

I still disagree with the first call, but it's arguable and I can live with it.

But it's the second which really makes us all angry of course.

WWSH

Not justifying the ejection, but throwing a helmet after arguing a call will be seen as showing up the ump every time. They get a bit cranky about that.

Had Penny tossed is helmet in the middle of the field, maybe, but he simply tossed his helmet as most players are wont to do after getting out.

The umpire who tossed out Penny was Rob Drake who is a vacation replacement. He is normally a PCL umpire.

The third base umpire is a fill in also.

206 - fair point, unless your a freakin umpire.

you're. Darnit, Bob's here.

Re: 207

I hope MLB takes note of this when they're thinking about promotions to the bigs.

WWSH

horrible call by the plate umpire aside, it would have been nice for Penny to realize the importance of each game while chasing the Padres and keep his emotions a little more in check. Maybe Milt can refer him to someone.

You know what. I've looked at it again on my TiVo. You are all right. It was a bad call. I thought at first there was a turn and a stutter toward second, but what there really was was just a turn and a realization that he was safe. There was no affirmative move toward second that was separate from the benign turn back to first. I retract.

And if you look, it is not what Penny "said." Penny yells something, Drake does nothing, then Penny throws the helmet, then Drake throws him out. So that's nonsense.

Jim see my comment in 182. I'm no grammar expert.

Only Phillips could get thrown out by that much on that play.

Re: 211

But Penny didn't really show all that emotion. He kept himself in check just fine until he was tossed. One toss of the helmet would not normally result in an ejection.

WWSH

Somebody get Phillips some speed skates.

211 - I thought he actually showed remarkable restraint for getting thrown out because he looked to see where the ball was.

He is normally a PCL umpire.

Really all that needs to be said. If Brown/Plaschke, etc. want to do something useful, they'll start discussing the scandal that is the umpiring corps in MLB rather than some thumbsucker about Brad Penny tomorrow.

I predict that Plaschke will not write about this game.

He is in Scotland. And the second round of the British Open will be starting just around the time this game ends.

So, will Tracy slot Penny's next appearance in sooner?

If I was Schmidt I would have thrown an intential ball there instead of that out of control pitch. The next 3 people coming up can't hit at all.

Perhaps Penny will be available to pitch out of the pen!

Can't believe they gave him a visa.

With two strikes, I'm calling the Grabowski Face Pitch over the inside corner right here.

Missed the corner.

And Steve dances with glee!

How much do PCL umps make a year. I know that Major League umps get around 300-400K.

That's what you get for missing the corner!

Harden has a perfect game through six.

Now you did it Jerry. Jon believes in the power of the hex!

Grabs must have had his eyes closed

I only abide by the rule if it involves a Dodger.

RE: the PCL umpire, do you think Phillips "misses" a high fastball if the ump works home plate later this series?

But since Jerry has let it out of the bag, I've been told that Extra Innings is free this weekend. So if you want to watch tonight's game. Or monitor a game in Oakland, you can do so.

A scrappy hack at ball four.

Schmidt is not helping his trade value tonight.

Plus, Harden's only thrown 53 pitches in 6 innings.

Neither is Chan Ho Park. :)

It's "Rivalry Weekend" in baseball. But aside from the Yankees-Red Sox and Dodgers-Giants, there aren't any big rivalry matchups.

The Cardinals aren't playing the Cubs.
The Twins aren't playing the White Sox.

Maybe it's that KC-Detroit series. The Royals won tonight to start their plan to avenge their loss in the 1984 ALCS.

I can't believe LaRussa was whining about ESPN when they had an extra off day over the break. What a jerk.

I've always wondered why the infielder doesn't knock down those line drives and turn a regular-style double play. The runner at first almost never has a chance to get too far off base, but you should have enough time to get the lead runner, plus have a shot at doubling up the batter.

240 - Most likely because it's simply a reflex, and you have a chance to potentially look really stupid if you screw up.

240
The infielders don't drop line drives deliberately because the rules don't let you.

The umpire would rule the batter out automatically in that situation.

Vin, sounding annoyed by beach balls. Says this is the only park with them.

Agreed

242 - How come the umpires allowed that pop-up double play that Beltran hit into then?

I've had the rulebook online open trying to find out just what it says about overrunning first, but that's one of those judgment calls.

But as for dropping line drives, it's Rule 6.05 (l)A batter is out when --
An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases; APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

244 - I think we've already established that Umpires are often really stupid, or ignorant, or both.

Just turned on the TV/Computer, 1-0 Dodgers in the 5th. Did I miss anything interesting besides Choi getting benched and all the beach balls on the field and Vin talking about it and comparing it to games in Japan.
vr, Xei

Rule 6.05 (l) covers the Beltran play I think, but I was out of the country at the time. Presumably, the ball fell without anyone touching it. Which is different from dropping it.

248 - Brad Penny got ejected due to umpire stupidity.

See Comments 170-210

Texas has come up with an excellent plan to break up the impending Grabowski. It's taking about half an hour to play the Bottom of the 6th.

Coming from Japan, the concept of the fans batting around a beach ball seems very funny. That would imply the fans were exercising their own will on how to cheer or behave during a game.

That's just not done in Japan.

248 - Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

I just got back from grilling up a bunch of chicken (the smoke is all over my house). Hey, we are up 1-0. Looks like DJ may hold down the fort.

252 - That's about as good a short summary of Japanese society as I've ever seen :)

Bob, Vin says fans in Japan bring noise makers to the games and put them to use.

254 - Need details re: chicken grilling.

Whats Kent doing swinging on 3-0 when Schmidt is laboring out there?

have some patience guys. Take your walks, keep making Schmidt work, and then we can work on the giant bullpen.

Stupid play by a savvy vet like Kent right there.

254, Marty did you mean: "Looks like DJ may Houlton down the fort."

That was bad. Too much Vegas, not enough sleep.

DT Over/Under Challenge.
Grabowski Flight:
7/14: Giants vs Brad Penny

Colorado Blue: 7 1/3
Howard: 8

CT Bum: 7 1/3
Xeifrank: 7

Looks like Colorado Blue and myself get the "W" tonight in the over/under challenge. Not to late to join. Email me at xeifrank@yahoo.com

Jim, very basic tonight. Just some salt, pepper, cayenne. Sear them on the fire, then put them off the main heat to really cook through. At the end, I put some (store bought) BBQ sauce on. Cooked a dozen thighs. I'll eat most of them for lunch tomorrow and Saturday.

The Oakland game is getting very interesting.

Harden went 2-0 to Teixeira, then was charged with Ball 3 for going to his mouth on the mound. He got it to 3-2 and Teixeira grounded out.

Pitch 3 - Automatic Ball

????

The Japanese do bring noise makers. But they all use them fairly close to being in unison.

i hate grabowski.

How on Earth does Grabowski drop that ball?

Harden went to his mouth on the mound.

Boy, I won't miss Grabowski much.

I got to thinking about the younger Dodger players and this site. They are all internet savvy, so I'm sure there are some current Dodgers who know about Dodger Thoghts. I'd be very interested in if any of them post comments. I'm thinking, in 5 years, interviews of team players will be on sites like tihs, rather than the newspaper/TV.

Consider yourself already thanked, Steve.

Grabowski giveth and Grabowski taketh.

Thanks, Marty; I don't know why hearing how you cook makes me feel better, but it does.

Perfect. Grabs finally gets an RBI and then gives it away in the field.

Grabbo you suck! Stick Perez in LF and start Choi! given Tracy's penchant for constant lineup changes how has this not already happened?

the A's game is more interesting than this game.

this is news, sutherland hits his 3rd double of the year. very exciting news.

Harden needs to, um, make the Oakland crowd happy, in order to justify my purchase of Extra Innings this year. I did not do it to watch Grabowski get 300 at-bats.

Thanks, Marty; I don't know why hearing how you cook makes me feel better, but it does.

Thanks, but thats WAY too much credit. I think I suck as a cook, compared to friends. I always consider what I do as "so easy, even Marty can handle it".

I am not particularly in favor of manipulating the line-up so Choi can have more playing time. However, if it would mean sending Werth to the bench or further away, I'm all in favor of it.

one out in the eighth...

crap.

So much for NoNo in Oakalnd

OK, people in Oakland, move along, move along, nothing to see here. Please disperse.

Cheap garbage flare to right field. No justice.

Oakland fans gave him a standing O--that was a nice touch.

Because of Jerry ...

Man, I'm down on Werth right now. He's killing us.

So Marty, are you the Marty of, you know, Marty's?

Jayson Werth is now 0 for 6 in his career against Schmidt with 5 Ks.

At least I got to learn about the automatic ball/mouth thing.

I ought to be flogged.

Fire Jerry

288. I don't think so, becuase I don't understand the question?

a little off topic but since everyone was watching harden, billingsleys delivery is a lot like hardens, very over the top like that.

288 -- Sounds like you're on Gamecast, so you missed the joy of watching Mike Matheny actually stand up to take in strike three somewhere around Werth's shoulder blades.

8.02
The pitcher shall not_ (a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand. PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.

wow, harden was drafted in the 17th round, crazy.

288 Sam you know that would make Marty a gambler. The Marty of Marty's used to make book out of the stand until he got busted.

My father loves Marty's Home of the Combo so much that my step-mother hired Marty's to cater my father's 75th birthday party. It was great. Everything but the Orange Bang and the Fire Station.

I would give anything for Harden. Even Guzman, Steve.

293 kidding. Marty's is the greasiest of burger stands, a few blocks from Rancho Park on Pico. Was where I went for chili burgers after soccer when I was a kid. I used to convince myself that big Howard flipping burgers was a bookie and then I'd watch customer interactions and see sure signs of it. Great awful wonderful place.

Nowadays when I get back though, I'm more an Apple Pan guy (also very close).

DBacks 6, Padres 0 in the 7th.

LAT -- One worries that if Marty's caters your 75th, you're not maximizing the odds of a 76th. But that is really awesome.

And I really had thought I was making up that bookie stuff. Guess I heard something and then assumed it applied to Howard too. Too funny.

wow i bet kent just broke his wrist.

Sam, burger for burger stratight up I'll take Marty's. But when you throw in the banana cream pie, its not even close. Apple Pan all day long.

I might all things being equal Jerry, but we've got Billingsley, Tiffany, and hopefully Hochevar and whoever else I'm forgetting right now. Gotta keep Guzman to save us from Darth Izturis' unholy reign of terror.

Can we like, not pretend that Kent is a good defensive first baseman? I mean, I like Kent. I love Kent. But this is not an excuse not to play Choi.

Bob--

watching MLB games on NHK in Japan, nothing seems so robotic and controlled than an entire stadium standing up at a specified time and singing the same song after the top half of the seventh.

in Japan, like in the U.S., different stadiums (stadia?) have different vibes. Koshien kyujo is totally different from Tokyo Dome.

298. 300. Sounds great. I love those places, but no, I'm not affilliated. But I am that big a gambler. Back in the 80's an old girlfriend's dad was a bookie and she took it over when he got sick. I have always worked in newspapers, so I could get the entries and morning odds, so I would gamble at work with my girl friend. We never had a situation where I would have to pay up or get my legs broken :)

Kent isn't too handy with the leather tonight. Except his problem has been that he has made a bad throw and tried to catch a ball with a part of his body that lacked opposable digits.

Koshien is like no other place on earth in my opinion. Those people are very loud and very dedicated. If the Tigers win, they stick around for an hour after the game singing.

Sam you are not kidding. My Pop has been known to knock back 2 or 3 combos. Then he tells me he's got the blood pressure of a twenty year old. That's ok. Hopefully, when I'm 75, I'll be going to Apple Pan for Pie and tell my daughters the same nonsense.

this is a season from hell.

i should stick to following the prospects.

ON AN 0-2 PITCH! AGAIN! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH OUR CRAPPY PITCHERS! BLAH BLAH BLAH JEFF KENT! HOW ABOUT NOT THROWING THE DAMN BALL RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE ON ANOTHER FREAKING 0-2 PITCH!

Acceptance anyone?

Hey look that came with 2 outs. That almost never happens. . . except to the Dodgers.

Earlier in the inning, I was going to post "Anyone notice DJ is pitching a pretty nice game?" Deceided to wait because of the jinx factor. So much for that.

choi is in the game. i am assuming its because kent broke his wrist.

I just wish that our best fielders were playing.

or is choi just pinch hitting?

DFA Houlton.

Or send him back to Houston, or whatever

313 - Make it a shot of tequila.

Vizquel is dangerous against pitchers with initials as names. His other homer this year was against J.C. Romero.

Robles is 2 for 2 against Munter in his career!
He owns him!

DJ wasnt that impressive.

4 IP 6 Hits 1 BB ZERO K's....

Thats the key stat.. A couple nubbers and a 3 run blast down the line, and thats the ball game.

At least we now know Choi's the best defensive 1st basemen we have now.

But in a perfect world, the Dodgers would have runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out in the 3rd with Oscar Robles batting.

Well, if it's a perfect world, can we have Albert Pujols batting instead? No slander intended of course of our best hitter Oscar Robles.

Phillips strikes fear into the heart of Filepe.

phillips cross eyedness strikes fear in me.

Maicer went 2 for 4 tonight, including a triple, to raise his average to .306

I was going for something out of "Candide", the best of all possible worlds.

Well Phillpis showed us. Good thing. Now let's start dissing Antonio

I had turned it off and was following it on the computer, then I saw that they brought in LaTroy, and I turned it back on.

Werth is an easier target than Perez anyway.

JW's gonna do it!

why does werth take two strikes right down the middle without even flinching?

329 - But first we must cultivate our infield.

That was the first IBB in Antonio Perez's career. Tell your kids that you saw it!

Jim, JW's gonna do it alright, if by "do it" you mean strike out.

He's waiting to swing at the third one.

If Werth can't hit that garbage, he's useless. DFA him too.

i seriously hate werths approach at the plate.

he starts out 0-2 almost every at bat.

So much for unadulterated hope.

Now, it's a battle of the bullpens!

This is going to turn out like the Battle of the Marne.

Man, if Werth keeps this up, we should start playing Chen in LF for some starts.

Really, though, did anyone not expect Werth to K?

WWSH

Grassy Schmoll!

Werth is Dave Ross with a bad goatee. He just lulled us into a false sense of security last year.

Jim,
I would not give you false hope
On this strange and mournful day...

I definitely like our bullpen better than the Giants. I just wish we could score runs.

342 - uh, well, uh...

Wonder if Jon's going to start editing out the comments that refer to werth as JW.

I'm only good for one Voltaire refernce per season.

And I'm going to start leaving out vowels at random in protest!

Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?

Nasty whiffle ball 0-1 pitch! I'm so glad Erickson was eating up roster space and innings while this guy wasted away at AAA. Idiots.

i dont think schmoll threw one ball.

It is called young pitchers #312, sad but true. As far as the Kent follies, that is whay he shouldn't be playing first base. Most of the plays he missed were tough, but a big leage first baseman gets them...And to add to the heartache we have Arizona helping us and Jason Werth didn't even put the ball in play...Question can someone do the comparison stats of Jason Werth and Todd Hollinsworth, that was a situation where Werth has got to hit the ball, never shortened up on the swing and the best pitches he saw were the first two.

Re: 347

In all due honesty, I had this lame feeling today that Werth would come out blazing. Blazing in a good way, not as in striking out every AB.

I should have listened to the voice that told me I was being a hopeless homer.

Man, the only way to deal with the team is gallow's humors. That, and paying attention to the farm.

WWSH

Schmoll is great.

Re: 352

Well, Schmoll did struggle earlier in AAA, so it's not so obvious he would've been better than Scottie.

WWSH

No respect for Grabbo! Felipe doesn't bring in Eyre to face him.

So, Repko was pulled for Ledee last inning and I got to thinking. In situations like that, does Tracy just say, "You're in for Jason" and then the Jasons have to figure which one of them is coming out? That would make for a fun game anyway.

Have a friend with size sixteen feet. Amazing guitarist, but looks a little odd playing the wah-wah pedal.

Long live the Grassy Schmoll.

everybody is better than Erickson. You, me, Grabowski, Chen, Ross, Walter Johnson's corpse. Even Goofus McWeeny, or whatever that guy's name was from the random dodger game flashback.

Just think, Jerry. We were about 48 hours from being "The Grassy Schmoll Mob"

Critical 8th inning against the Giants and we send up Jason Grabowski, Cheng Chen and Ricky Ledee? This just put an exclamation mark on our season being over.

I know there are probably some stats to dispute me here, but i dont recall Jayson Werth doing much of anything in important late inning situations this year.

Well, that would've gotten you on the DHS watch list right quick.

Schmoll has been the highlight of our season.

I don't recall Jayson Werth doing much of anything, period.

Jayson Werth hasn't done much in early innings, middle innings or late innings this year.

HEE SEOP CHOI! HEE SEOP CHOI!

Oh wait, he pinch hits. Hasn't Tracy looked at Choi's pinch hitting stats? I'm sure it's "significant" for Tracy...

364 - Aren't we at the point of the season where there aren't anymore critical innings?

It was Buzz McWeeny. His real name was Doug.

Though the Grassy Schmoll Mob wouldn't have made for a very good thumbsucker out of the Daily News.

I recall Werth hitting a homerun in August game at home against the Phillies to tie it in the 8th or 9th, but that is pretty much it.

Whats the opinion on who came out better in the Werth-Jason Frasor trade? Last year it looked like us, but Frasor has been solid again this year while Werth has regressed.

We're missing the big story, which is that Tracy has figured out that Brazoban coming in once every three weeks is probably bad for him, so he's pitching...losing!

Would any self-respecting Dodger fan ever name their son Ja(y)son after this season?

I just realized. Choi is this year's FBLHBOTB. I want to hang myself.

the amount of Jason's currently in their 20s playing pro baseball is staggering.

I couldn't name a son Jason because my mother would rise from the grave and smite me.

I'd like to buy a vowel.

FBLHBOTB?

Why are we pinch hitting here? If we wanted Saenz in this situation, why didn't he start?

Oh, Vinny just filled in the blank for me, Olmedo is 1 for 1 life time against Walker.

Tracy's "First Bad Left Handed Bat Off The Bench"

Last year it was Grabowski. Tracy thinks Choi is Grabowski.

I don't think he's yet figured out that Grabowski is Grabowski, and yet Choi is Grabowski.

Free born left handed batter off the bench?

It could be worse. F.P. Santangelo could be on deck.

Send out Weaver, Tracy.

edwards would not have got on, plus now we have hee-seop to pitch run

would tracy have choi pinch run or odalis?

2003 was the year. Evans bought us another 15 years of misery by not doing anything then.

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

Choi already PH.

If this game gets tied up somehow, the Dodgers will have one weird looking infield.

Probably Phillips at first, Kent at second, Perez at third.

386 - Again, why not just start Olmedo if you don't want Edwards in a clutch situation?

Never mind the fact that Olmedo has been atrocious for the last two months.

Not that the Dodger infield is any weirder any other time.

cant i dream? crowd chanting his name as hee-seop steals 2nd, 3rd and home?

Thanks, Dan Evans. Jerry and Dan Evans are tonight's enemies of the night.

Perhaps I should switch from RDGCs to just a game by game recap of the 1992 season.

Vin: "and that's it." I think he was refering to the season, not tonight's game.

In the minors, Travis Denker just hit his 18th homerun of the season. Denker is a 19-year old second baseman with a ton of power and superb plate discipline. It's too bad he won't be in the majors for 3 - 4 more years.

396 -- Mitch McWeeny?

FB- kemps BA is up to .290!!!

398, 400 -- I'm starting to believe that these guys don't really exist, and you guys are just making them up as we go deeper under .500

Until DePodesta can transmutate them into Dunn or Oswalt, I won't believe. Like Kate Hudson in that scary movie coming out: "I don't believe!"

more good news. fireballer reliever jose diaz who last yr had a FB go up to 99MPH pitched an inning in the GCL today. he had TJ in the offseason and is back throwing now. nice.

Whatever airhead is on the SCSR just said Brad Penny needs to show some restraint. Did they actually see the events that lead to him getting thrown out? Or do they just adlib stuff once the camera points at them?

I mean, Matt Lawton is starting to look good.

Okay... not past acceptance.

Somewhere between depression and anger... is anger one of the stages?

I can't be the only one finding himself increasingly interested in Oakland's games, can?

I've been a Dodger fan for about 22 of my 27 years, but I very nearly walked away a couple years ago. Fox, Malone, and Daly just about drove me away. And I started getting into the A's in about 1998 or so. I'll even admit to being more behind Oakland than LA in 2003. But DePodesta going to LA pretty much automatically put me back into the LA camp. But the reasoning for that was because LA would finally start making moves that I agreed with and running a team in a more effective, and modern, way. But where is it?

It's just painful to even look at our lineups construction these days. Not to mention in-game strategy.

401. Ahh, denial.
vr, Xei

401--Hmmm..."Hot prospects are the opiate of the masses." It has a certain ring to it.

404 -- I would lodge a symbolic protest tomorrow by just throwing the helmet after every out. What are they going to do, throw out the whole team? And even if they did, how could you tell the difference?

I root for the A's because I know Arte Moreno is subtly but surely plotting a bloodless coup. McCourt, Villaraigosa, Antonovich--they all need to worry.

Penny gets thrown out. Warning track power Vizquel hits one out. I am convinced we are cursed.

406. Yes, here is the complete list, there are some minor variations of it. vr, Xei

1-Denial
2-Anger
3-Bargaining
4-Depression
5-Acceptance

411 - So that's what Tim Brown is trying to get in on. Interesting. I had no idea it went so high.

I don't know. I just get this horrible feeling that what we're saying about these guys (Great and Powerful JtD excluded) is what people were sayin about Repko.

#400: I saw that. Since May 25th, Kemp has raised his average from .258 to .290.

413 -- I relapse through the stages roughly every two weeks.

407... Its a sad state of affairs when the line between DePo and previous Dodgers GM is getting thinner and thinner.

Beane knows how to get the job done, from the player acquisision to the on field managing.

DePo illogical acceptance of Jim Tracy's management moves, along with the roster (Why are Repko, Grabowski, Carrara, Sanchez, Erickson) on the roster...

Why cant DePo just flat out demand Tracy play Saenz, Choi, Ledee everyday??

This lineup isnt bad:

SS- Robles
1b- Choi
2nd- Kent
RF- Ledee
LF- Perez
3rd- Saenz
CF- Werth
C- Phillips
Pitcher...

Why doenst he go with that? And leave the minor leaguers (Edwards, Repko, Grabs, Chen) on the bench?

#414: Repko was a decent prospect as long as he was at shorstop (#4 in 2000 and 2001). But he couldn't cut shorstop defensively and was moved to the outfield. After that, his upside became much more limited because his bat doesn't play as well in center field.

Mr. Scrappy couldn't make it as a shortstop?

#417 - I absolutely agree.

Depo may be smarter than Beane. Hell, I think Billy would admit as much, and I probably would as well. And I've said before that I think Depo may be too smart for baseball and end up leaving to take over some large company at about 10 times his current salary. But what he doesn't yet appear to have is Beane's ability to make people do what he wants them to. I can't imagine any of Oakland's managers refusing to play Beane's pet, Hatteberg, because of "arm angles." That sort of thing would only happen once.

And while you might argue that it's not Depo's job to manage game situations, I don't really buy that excuse. Teams need a consistent strategy, from low-A to the majors, both in-game and off-season. If Tracy can't effectively use the players Depo gives him, one of the two needs to change. Because right now, Tracy doesn't know how to get the most out of the roster he's been given, period, end of story. He should be somewhere else.

#417: Perez may be able to play left field someday, but he can't now. It would take him time for him to learn a new position. Ledee just finished recovering from his hamstring injury and the organizational decision was to use him in a limited role to reduce his injury risk (pinch-hitting / late inning replacement). Saenz shouldn't be playing third base due to injury concerns as well being a serious defensive liability.

So, a more realistic set of lineups would be:

Against RHP:
Robles (SS)
Perez (3B)
Kent (2B)
Choi (1B)
Werth (RF)
Phillips (C)
Repko (CF)
Grabowski (LF)

Against LHP:
Robles (SS)
Perez (3B)
Kent (2B)
Saenz (1B)
Werth (RF)
Phillips (C)
Repko (CF)
Chen (LF)

Until Valentin comes off the DL, Perez should be playing every day at 3B, Choi and Saenz should have a strict platoon at first base, and Chen and Grabowski should platoon in left field.

Even doing those things, it's still a horrible lineup, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating to see Mike Edwards out there every day at 3B and ridiculous reasons for not starting Choi.

Baby, if you've ever wondered,
Wondered whatever became of me,
I'm living on the air in Cincinnati,
Cincinnati, WKRP.

Got kind of tired packing and unpacking,
Town to town and up and down the dial
Maybe you and me were never meant to be,
But baby think of me once in awhile.

I'm at WKRP in Cincinnati..

I thought I missed baseball during the ASB. This is what I missed? This isn't baseball...

lindsey soto is pretty cute. i would have relations with her.

422. Not really on point but Loni Anderson lives with one of my partners and comes to Firm functions. She is very nice and is actually pretty in real life.

bradly starts rehab assignment in Vegas tomorrow per FSW

#426 - bradley, too.

421- We cant win with Repko/Graboswki/Chen/Edwards always taking up 2 of the 8 lineup spots...

I dont really care about burning out Ledee or Saenz right now because we need some wins right now.

How hard is it to play LF? Honestly?

While this season has driven me to heavy anti-depressants, I do see a glimmer of hope on the basis of some small moves that can help us tremendously.

I believe we should release Grabowski who has become the living symbol of all my enemies and hatred combined. Repko should only be used as a late inning defensive replacement. Ledee should see increased playing time. We have a surplus of good hitting shortstops in Izturis and Perez, we must trade one for starting pitching. Jose Valentin is returning soon, as well as Bradley. Choi should be playing more, and I agree with Oldbear, we should play Saenz until he is destroyed, for he has value. I believe we should also fire Jim Tracy, and give him to the Reds a team whose destiny is be at the bottom of their division. Only if these are followed can we achieve victory.

The chicken and the egg argurment Depo vs Tracy. #420 I live in SF and am listening to the A's extra innings show and the reason why Hatterberg is not playing is becasue Billy Beane wants to play the person they brought up Dan Johnson. Hatteberg will not be on the A's next year becase they want to play Johnson-this is a Beane decision.

While Tracy deserves much of the blame as far as the Dodgers go, he has only the players who Depo has given him. And in reality they aren't that good. The Dodgers seem to have no power in the minors capable of helping the club and with the exception of Kent and Choi, they have little healthy right now. When Chen Feng is your power pinch hitter you know you have problems.Why does Grabowski start? He is a Depo guy, so there perhaps Tracy is listening. So while Tracy deserves criticism for his handling of Choi, playing Sanez every day who everyone feels is better off the bench and a spot starter-the Dodgers have nobody who represents any power. In an odd way the players on this team with the exception of defense are more of a throw back to Dodger teams of old who had no power, but had good pitching. In my mind the solution becomes far more hitting and running, taking the same approach at the plate, but putting players in better positions to to drive in runs with outs, and hopefully some of the singles begin to fall.

At the end of the day Depo has no magic solutions and most of the players out there would at this point only help the Dodgers marginally..My ideal lineup when Izzy comes back:

Izzy SS
Perez LF (if he can)
Kent 2b
Choi 1b
Werth CF
Phillips C
Ledee RF/Repko RF
Robles/Edwards/Saenz 3b

This in my mind is a far more honest lineup and represents some power with reasonable contact hitters. Given Phillips performance this year-we all should be thrilled with his hitting, you could certainily move him up and possibly move Werth down. We can only hope that Bradley returns soon-I think at this point he ought to have his minor league rehab with the Dodger club, because he can't do any worse and at least we then can demote one of the Jason's!

Anybody remember in the era long before the Internet and ESPN and FSN and not many of the Dodgers games were televised. And if you watched Channel 11 around 10 pm or so they would have the "(Sponsor Name) Dodger Scoreboard" and there would be a graphic saying that the Dodgers won or lost and an announcer giving a score.

One year, it was sponsored by Snapper Lawnmowers and if the Dodgers lost, the Snapper logo, a turtle, would be crying while pushing a lawnmower.

That image is stuck in my head now.

Fearing Blue you are correct about how the organization feels about Ledee and Saenez-so again you can't heap all the blame on Tracy. In an odd sort of way, playing Chen actually makes some sense, because at this point he seems to be a complete washout and perhaps with more at bats he could do more..Any thoughts on Henry Stanley if he can hit and field better than Grabowski or Repko would he be an alternative, obviously Cody Ross wasn't.

I fail to see how this miserable season is Tracey's fault. First, as even Jon has pointed out, Choi has not earned the right to play all of the time or even much of the time. Second, Tracey loves Old Maid. Don't you think JT would play Old Maid if Old Maid felt up to it? Somehow, I don't think trotting out that minor league line up is JT's preference either. Third, I am sure JT would rather play Ledee every day and all day. I assume Ladee is not up to it yet. As for playing Grabs. I don't know why he lets him near the stadium, but that is as much Depo's fault as JT. Why is Grabs still on this team. Same for Erickson.

Come on guys. This season sucks because of injuries, not because of Tracey. So he bunts more than he should but the fact remains we do not have the horses to get this job done. Plain and simple. That's it. And that is not a shot at Depo. Without the injuries we would be running away with the division. Finally, we should all remember we are working with imperfect information. We do not know if Old Maid or Ledee is not playing more because of medical reasons, trade reasons or something else. I just think its unfair to lay this lousy season at Tracey's doorstep. Actually, I think he has faced more adversity than any other manager this year. We would not be in a materially different place than we are now with any other manager.

Robles at third....hmmm. I think I remember hearing something about that when we brought him up. Although Valentin coming back might render it moot.

By the way, I think we're way past the point where we can worry whether Perez "can" play left, or Saenz or Robles "can" play third. These things seem metaphysically possible, if not terribly probable. But we already know Perez can't play second, and he can't play third, so why worry about whether he can play left? Like Grabowski can play left? Come on. If it opens a spot to get Saenz or Robles or Perez into the lineup over a Grabowski or a Chen or a Repko or an Edwards, then that's a no-brainer.

That said, Saenz needs to play not so much in the next week or so. We need to see if we can get something for him, and we can't use him up -- he can play after July 31st if we can't dump him.

So Izturis returns tomorrow. Someone has to go?

Who can it be now?
Who can it be now?
Who can it be now?

I would rather see Grabs go than Erickson. Erickson can rot in the pen and not do damamge other than take up space. Grabs actually is killing us. In the field and at the plate. He sucks.

Tracy hates Koreans. That's got to be the only explanation.

we should trade odalis, weaver and lowe.

I've got Sportscenter on and have now seen Vizquel's homerun twice more. I feel the need to punish myself for being a Dodger fan right now.

It's not a matter of Choi earning anything. It's a matter of Saenz is 35 and not the future. I supported the platoon way back in April. We had a chance to win, and Saenz was (and will probably continue) to hit lefties. But, now, it's over. We're done. And we gotta know what we're going to do at first base next year. I simply can't write Choi off based on what I've seen, and if this continues to the rest of the year, I'm not sure how anybody honestly could. Which means we go into 2006 having won 65 games, and didn't even use the time to try to answer one of the more pressing questions we have. Maybe we won't even answer it. But it would help.

Meanwhile, there goes the Kent at First theory. Poof.

438. nate, trading Odalis and lowe after just signing them would be a PR nightmare. It would be interpreted as an admission of mistake in signing them in the first instance. Hell, Frank can't even come out and admit taking the names off the uniforms was a mistake. How is he going to admit a $50 million blunder.

Lowe will come around. OP simply is not the pitcher he was. With the exception of his mouth he has simply lost volocity.

LA Times reporting that O Perez was called into McCourt's office before the game for a discussion.

Also Barry Bonds is leaning now toward sitting the whole year out.

If Repko's got options, he'll go. Erickson and Grabowski are protected from up on high by the prince of darkness.

who cares about PR nightmare. trade them :)

PR! They've got Sitrick now! A few well-timed press releases and we're in. Or trade Weaver for LoDuca.

Steve, what is the pressing unknown question about Choi. This is who he is. Can't hit for average, but gets on base and streaks HRs together. Mediocre with flashes of brilliance. He was this way with Chi. He was this way with Fla. And he has been this way for a full year with LA. To me he should play because he is the ONLY option with any power on an utterly powerless team. But when he plays I don't expect anymore from him that he has shown to date.

441. Would have liked to be a fly on that wall. I hope Frank ripped him a new one.

Barry is the master of disinformation. I don't believe anything he says until I see it with my own eyes.

433. "I fail to see how this miserable season is Tracey's fault."

An argument is not valid if the name of the person you are defending a person is spelled incorrectly.

How has Choi not proven himself? Three homeruns in one game while batting near 800 OPS? Shawn Green would do that and get a contract extension.

An argument is not valid if the name of the person you are defending is spelled incorrectly.

I suppose my previous argmument I posted is invalid due to my grammatical error. Ironic... just like the Dodgers season to date.

Here's what I want to know. I want to know why Hee Seop Choi, still developing at the age of 26 and making $300,000 a year, can OPS .777 and his manager benches him four times a week, while Steve Finley can steal $15 million from the Angels, OPS .700, and have his manager and the entire Southern California Sports Media blow smoke up his ass for the next two years.

That is the great unanswered question about Hee Seop Choi. Why one of the few Dodgers who has actually done something this year is torn apart by his own manager for parts of two years, while actual, real, overpaid, mediocre garbage like Steve Finley wouldn't have a cross word said about him by Bill Plaschke if he was caught with little boys in the clubhouse.

Choi deserves to play against righties. He has proved that. A manager who favors Choi would let him start against lefties at least once in awhile. Jim Tracy invents reason of arm angles, tender hamstrings and limited sample size statistics to justify not starting the South Korean.

Imagine if Choi won the homerun contest. How much would you guys bet that Jim Tracy was rooting against Choi in the homerun contest? It's unbelievable that Choi doesn't start against Backe the day before the break nor does he start against Schmidt the day after the break (0 for 13, 8 Ks nothwithstanding).

DePodesta needs to be a man. Tell Tracy somehow and communicate to him that Choi needs to play. Or fire him. Period. Don't wait till the end of the season. Do it now. Let Jim Lett coach and let another Jim coach 3rd base until GH is completely ready.

Maybe we can trade Jim Tracy to Cincinnati a la Lou Piniella to Tampa. Maybe for Austin Kearns? Wouldn't that be sweet? If Kearns were traded to the Dodgers, Tracy would start him at first and still have an all Jason outfield. Amazing how all three Ja(y)sons are crappy right now. You would think that the statistical probability would be such that one of the Jasons would be doing well.

Not to mention Adrian Beltre, who would probably kill his mother to have a .777 OPS right now, though his $64 million contract will have to serve as comfort on those warm summer nights when his team loses 5-3 as he scratches out yet another measly, useless, Repkovian single.

choi doesnt looke like a baseball player.

thats the reasoning.

"How much would you guys bet that Jim Tracy was rooting against Choi in the homerun contest?"

I'll take that bet (against) in a Georgia minute. That's as silly as saying Tracy is a racist.

But I agree you you both that Choi should be playing everyday. The trick is, as Jon and others have said, where to play Perez. No way he comes out of the lineup.

Just got back from tonight's game at Dodger Stadium.

Folks, the place is haunted. Not only were the umpires possessed by evil demons, but Omar Vizquel has clearly dabbled with the black arts. I'm sure I saw a spectral figure toss Phillips' hit into the stands so that the runner could be stranded at third. His shade is still there now.

Then I go to my car to drive home. It overheats. I have to wait for all the other cars to leave so I can see if it still overheats when it doesn't have to idle in traffic. Choi was with me. I made it home.

The crowd was great, though. One guy I went with who rarely attends games said he didn't remember Dodger crowds being so partisan. The Dodgers are lucky to have these fans. Even the beach ball action was minimal. A few people in my section almost got scalped by giant paper airplanes thrown from the upper deck. They had quite a Panzer group up there. But the reaction to the Penny outrage was great.

I'm sure I saw a spectral figure toss Phillips' hit into the stands so that the runner could be stranded at third.

Plaschke. That troll.

Tracy's not a racist, he's just crazy. There's a subtle difference. He gets along fabulously with the Latin players, and he praised Nomo at every opportunity, even when Nomo's career was clearly over, so I don't buy the hates Asian deal. I just think he's nuts.

Re: 197 Both teams are showing why they are well below .500.

That was a strong impression from being in the stands. Two weak teams. Inexperienced vs. Depressed.

Nice comment total Jon - almost 500.

#428: It's hard. Judging fly balls is a learned skill that's not necessarily hard to learn, but must be learned. The reason I say "not necessarily" hard is that some players never seem to figure it out no matter how much time they spend in the outfield *cough*Adam Dunn*cough*.

Cody Ross was exiled for not changing his name to Ja(y)son Ross - the new requirement for OF

#432: Henri Stanley is a left-handed outfielder who has similar career minor league statistics to Jason Grabowski. He also may be better defensively, since I can't imagine he's worse. Of course, once you decide to cut ties with Grabowski, it's unlikely you can go back since he has no more options. I think in this regard DePodesta has been too conservative (similarly with Scott Erickson).

#445: Actually, Choi has tremendous upside based on a) his minor league performance of .285/.387/.532 over 5 years, b) his 2005 PECOTA weighted mean projections based on similar players .258/.374/.493, c) his youth, at 26 he still has a lot of time to improve, and d) his extreme unluckiness on balls in play with a .248 BABIP in spite of hitting the ball hard most of the times he is up.

Inexperienced vs. Depressed

Which one are we?

What a cheap win! Sorry Howard...

Oh, and by the way, but for one pitch... I hate the Midgets!!!

You know, I was wondering what Average Fan Joe LoDuca was thinking if Matt Lawton was looking good to me. So I went to ESPN to find out, and there was natepurcell trying to talk them out of...Bret Boone. Really, really high comedy.

Steve, it's time the firejimtracy title reflects the need to play Choi... when a loss seems next to inevitable, this is what I hope for.

#467: I don't know why Nate wastes his time. If Average Fan / Sports Writer had his way, we'd probably have an outfield of Juan Encarnacion, Preston Wilson and Shawn Green. Oh yeah, and now an infield of Adrian Beltre, Cesar Izturis, and Bret Boone. That would be a SWEET team.

433 -"First, as even Jon has pointed out, Choi has not earned the right to play all of the time or even much of the time."

That's not my stance at all. I understand why Tracy doesn't play him, but I don't agree with it.

469 -- It would, of course, be easier to argue that cheap sub-mediocrities like Erickson and Grabowski are easier to cut ties with if we would, in fact, cut ties with them.

From the LA Times Dodgers Report, Tracy and DePodesta will be guests on KFWB's Dodger Talk today at Noon.

#471: I agree, but in the end this team is not losing because Erickson and Grabowski are our 24th and 25th men.

473 -- No of course not. I'm just saying that it is our argument that it is easiest to get rid of cheap failures. But if we don't get rid of them, it undermines that argument.

Just to clarify... I think Tracy was rooting against Choi in the HR Derby because success would have put Tracy in a position to play the South Korean which he clearly does not want to do

I know this thread is done but in the event you see it:

470. Jon, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I was just trying to get across what I thought was your position, that not playing Choi is justified because Sanez's numbers are better. Thus, I was saying until Choi's numbers are better than Olmedo's he has not earned the right to play. Sorry for any confusion.

How about we trade Choi instead and keep Olmedo for what he should be - a good offensive part timer and pinch hitter.