Somebody explain why Valentin will be an improvement, even over Crappy Werth.

Tracy's favorite stat, RISP.

He has to be better than Werth. And at worse, can he be worse?

Somebody explain why a guy taking the bar beat me to getting comment number one.

Or comment number two...

I'm done, SB.

Not another scrappy RISP guy. Those are the guys who have driven the entire National League West a zillion games under .500.

Depo sang the praises of Schmoll, Brazoban and Sanchez. Hopefully, that means Gio is not long for the Dodger world.

I think Valentin's RISP stat may actually be significant.

Valentin could conceivable OPS .800 the rest of the way. That will help.

At the very least, it should prevent Edwards from starting (not that he's a bad bench player I guess).

conceivably I mean.

Carrol asked Depo how underrated he thought Tracy was. Depo dodged it.

2 -- And sure he could be worse. He was worse when he was playing in May. His OBP was based on an 80 PA sample size that is completely out of whack with his career walk numbers. He was already heading off into Grabowski/Izturis/Phillips .650 OPS oblivion with an 0 for 40 slump. As is the case with Choi and everyone else in the world (including The Idiot), the difference between Izturis and Valentin appears to be that the media likes Izturis and hates Valentin, because Izturis predates DePodesta and Valentin was signed by DePodesta. Valentin was slugging .350, only 15 points better than His Holy Overratedness at shortstop.

So is Valentin better than Adrian Beltre? Sure. Objectively so, not even to mention their contracts. But better than replacement to the extent that he turns a .400 team into even a .500 team? No way.

Somebody explain to me why Valentin will be an improvement...

1) It will give Vin Scully a chance to amuse himself in the booth by calling Valentin "Zorro" in honor of that goofy mustache;

2) When Carrara keeps on giving up left field homeruns to 155lb shortstops in close games, you won't have to worry about how bad a LF Valentin is;

3)John Shelby can judge a competition between A. Perez and Valentin to see who is the worst infielder/left fielder project, and the McCourts can sell it to their new showbiz pals as a reality TV Show.

11 -- All excellent explanations. I stand down.

Manager Jim Tracy said he met with Phillips on Friday and discussed why the move was being made -- he called it a "reality check" -- while encouraging Phillips to work on his footwork and ball transfer.
Yee-ouch.
But how can he work on them at first base?
Solution? Bullpen catcher!

Maybe Dioner Navarro is supposed to have a Tyler Houston Effect on Jason Phillips.

Unlike Houston, Navarro's actually doing something. Plus Phillips has no competition at first (sadly...), so he can continue to ground slowly to the SS with men on without fear of losing his job

David Ross making his Padre debut tonight catching "old friend" Pedro Astacio.

bring an awareness so the player can get better.

Wow, that's just an amazing talent. Is he aware that Phillips can't hit either? Is he aware that Izturis can't hit? And that Carrara can't pitch? And that he has about .830 of OPS in Saenz, Perez and Choi wasting away on the bench while he plays Edwards, Phillips, and Repko?

This awareness thing is a double-edged sword, obviously.

Steve, if you're done with the bar, congratulations. At the risk of dramatically understating, that's a huge accomplishment.

I've had a great time obsessing over Hee-Seop Choi, a time that peaked on the DT Adam Dunn Scouting Excursion. But realism has to take over at some point. It's painfully clear Tracy believes Choi can't play. One day, we may know why. It may be that Tracy believes Saenz is much more productive--and that is an argument--but I think there's more to the story.

Wes Helms just hit a 3 run homer, 7-1 Giants in the bottom of the 8th. Looks like the Dodgers will stay 1.5 ahead of the Giants

By my count, the Padres will have employed eight(8)former Dodgers when Chan Ho shows up.
(Chan Ho, Ross, Roberts, E.Young, Quantrill, Reyes, Astacio,Seanez).

Apparently Antonio Osuna, and Angel Pena were otherwise occupied. And the Dodgers are trailing THAT TEAM.

Nine:
Brian Falkenborg has played for the Padres.

Did the agents for Mondesi, and Mike Kinkade not return Kevin Towers' phone calls?

Also the Dodgers are still behind the Diamondbacks.
Who have played former Dodgers in Green, Counsell, Hill, and Herges

If you changed "Hee Seop Choi's" name to Player X, and you put him in a list of 25 other players, and called them Players A through Z, 100% of responsible baseball fans would be saying "Why aren't any of Players A through Z playing first base instead of Jason Phillips?"

Jason Phillips is a backup catcher. To put today's events in yesterday's terms, Jim Tracy has just moved Dave Ross TO FIRST BASE!

There is nothing commendable about Jason Phillips in the slightest. He is among the two or three worst hitters on the team, along with Izturis. Meanwhile, no less than three players with first base experience who are ridiculously better hitters waste. Kent can play first and put Perez's bat in the lineup. Saenz can play first. Or Choi can play first. Or Jason Bateman can play first. Or Soupy Sales. Or Regis Philbin. Or Jon Lovitz. or Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. "That was a good hit...for me to POOP ON!"

The argument that "Choi sucks, so we must play Phillips" is an attempt by the feeble to rouse the rabble. The word "Choi" invokes a sort of Pavlovian response in these people, invoking all the worst sins of the Fathers, sending them into Manchurian Candidate like delusions about Paul LoDuca and Alex Cora.

If the issue was about Hee Seop Choi v. Jason Phillips, Jim Tracy would be bankrupted in court after my lawsuit for managerial malpractice. It is completely inept. But the fact is that Tracy has several options above and beyond Hee Seop Choi means he has one foot in the nuthouse.

The Giants have had just two former Dodgers this year in Herges and Grissom.

The Rockies don't have any.

Steve,
Would you like to play some solitaire?

The Rockies have Carvajal, a Rule V from the Dodgers

I was only counting major leaguers to make it easier.

I'm sorry, am I using up your bandwidth again?

sending them into Manchurian Candidate like delusions

Making a joke there, Steve, that's all.

#24 Wow, someone has a lot of excess energy, now that the Bar Exam is over. Can't say I've ever before seen the Manchurian Candidate and Soupy Sales referenced in the succeeding paragraphs. Hope you didn't do that in your response to that Interstate Commerce Act question on the Bar.

#23/25 Does Herges count twice on any list of former Dodgers because of his willingness to show his sensitive side when he got traded?

30 -- Oh, I get it. Sorry, this is one of those issues that has put me in Top Level Supremely Bad Mood Mode.

Steve,
I liked your riff in #24. Almost jazz-like in its approach.

Primer says Randy Winn to the Giants for Yorvit. That'll solve their problems. Isn't Randy Winn really Michael Tucker in disguise?

In case you missed it in the other discussion, Randy Winn to the Giants for catcher Yorvit Torrealba and pitcher Jesse Foppert

I thought Foppert was a prospect. No?

Isn't Randy Winn really Michael Tucker in disguise?

Looking at their stats, they are the exact same player with one exception, tucker has a little more power. Trading your catcher of the future (and only legitimate backup) and a top pitching prospect for a player you don't need isn't going to help...

How many young pitchers can Sabean get rid of in one year? Foppert might turn out to be good, if healthy, and Torrealba isn't a bad catcher.

Winn is Tucker without the anti-social tendencies

That deal just about killed any chance of us making a deal, and I can't say I'm unhappy about that. I can hardly wait to read the Giants' blogs on this subject.

Izzy has to be traded. he has no idea how to play baseball and what skills he brings to the table.

down 8-4 with a man on and a 2-0 count he swings at a pitch and hits into a dp.

This isn't a small sample size. he cotinually does this. he can't think he is going to hit an HR or a double so there is no rational reason for him to swing. If he is irrational then he needs to be off the roster and take medication.

Save the Lo douca crocdile tears because his Defense has followed his offensive into the gutter. This isn't visquel hitting 330. Izzy think he is Vlad and you don't walk off the island.

there isn't a player outside the bronx who is more overvalued than this guy.

I wouldn't mind that. Does Perez's offense offset Izzy's defense, I'm going to say yes. However, I doubt anything will happen.

Venezuela is an island?

Who knew?

42
he doesn't.

Ross has an impressive debut for the Padres--he actually made contact! An impressive groundout to the catcher. At least Phillips can get it to the shortstop

And Dunn continues to clobber the Padres, he doubled and came in to score

41

his defense is average, if that.

Izturis's defense is overrated. I wouldn't claim that it is below average, but it certainly doesn't warrant batting leadoff and giving 750 plate appearances to a guy who is going to OPS .650 for his career.

46

I'm a little upset but you are right. his defense isn't below avg. Bobble heads for everyone.

I wonder if Bowden would take Izzy for Wilkerson... I wanted that trade to happen for awhile. We get a poor man's Dunn with defense and Perez plays full time. The Nats get a better shortstop (when Izzy is an improvement, you know you have problems), unload the untoolsiest OF on their roster (Bowden loves his tools), Church can play fulltime, and Bowden is stupid enough to do it.

Just plain "average" has a lovely ring to it and is likely much closer to accurate than any other alternative adjective.

46, agree

47, you're right that Izzy doesn't know what he should be doing, he certainly doesn't have good plate discipline

I actually wonder if Valentin could fill in at SS, he is another UZR all star, although that methodology is probably flawed

we(me) have been conned into thinking this guy is an allstar shortstop and it is not that clear that he should be starting every day for the dodgers. he swings like he is batting eighth no matter his position or the score so let's put him there and on the bench every few days.

show me a legitimate stat that he is an above avg shortstop defensively and I'll shut up. gold gloves don't count.

51

http://tinyurl.com/82gpf

Casey homered, 2-1 Reds.

I realize I might be preaching to the choir so I apologize but it really hit me the past few days as i've gone to the stadium and watched him. I'll drop it until someone praises him and then I'll descend with vengeance and righteousness (not necessarily in that order).

Izturis does have one stat that I'm sure he dominates in, that, of course, is the H&S factor.

so in the last two yr, sabean has traded away these young pitchers:
joe nathan, francisico liriano (top lefty prospect in baseball), boof bonser, david aardsma, jesse foppert and jerome williams.

I can only imagine that Choi frustration or Tracy frustraction has clouded everyones' minds. Izturis is still one of the best overall shortstops in the NL. He is middle of the pack offensively and above average defensively. The only shortstop who is ranked above him in both catagories is Vizquel. Most can field or hit but not both. Which is why I would trade Izzy if we could get high value for him but not because it's frustrating to see Choi on the bench.

53

How do you make the raspberry noise over the internet.

Here goes. Phhhtttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!

57

he can be replaced without much trouble. the La Times might not think so but he can. trade him while he has value. he is sizzle and not a lot of steak.

I will say that Izzy needs to be more patient at the plate. His walk totals are too low. And I've never thought he was a good lead off hitter but that's Tracy's decision. He has improved offensively every year.

And now I must get ready for work. I'll be back at 3 a.m. PDT to defend Cesar.

I think trading Izturis now would actually be trading him while his value is low, considering the terrible slump he has been in.

Furthermore, even though DePo knows his numbers, he can't be completely oblivious to the public pressures of the know-nothing media, and casual fans.

Jose Cruz to the Red Sox for 2 prospects (Kenny Perez and Kyle Bono). Perez is a future AAAA more than likely, and Bono is a mediocre relief prospect

it looks like depo is standing patt his year.

52 -- So that's how the space shuttle works!

Well, I'm the choir on this issue, at least.

I think that Izturis is, unarguably a decent defensive shortstop. I think what is most objectionable is not Izturis personally, but that he has many, many flaws (plate discipline is one; not being able to run is another; nothing even resembling gap power is another) and yet, because of bias and ideology, he gets a free pass from those flaws, while other certain large Korean lefthanders who shall go nameless have every flaw dissected. I will be the last person to criticize the dissecting of flaws, but the dissecting should be done across the board of everyone, and not just of "Favored Player 1" or "Favored Player 2."

There is no rational counter-argument here. If you go behind the pseudo-argument, the basic point is simply "I like Jason Phillips" or "I like Cesar Izturis." Well, go ahead and like them then. Name your kids after them. But stop pretending they are something they are not with inane blather about "situational hitting" or "defense" or "intangibles." Nonsense. These are just codewords for no argument at all.

64-Where did you come up with that? There's still a long time until the deadline, plus he did say he's working on half a dozen trades earlier today

he gets a free pass from those flaws
Yes, Yes, Yes. All my ranting can be boiled down to that. You have a talent, steve. money and time well spent at law school.

Langhorne, read this at 3.

The problem is that Joe Morgan-types, and a number of media members and types of fans see DePodesta as the ultimate evil. The attacks on Choi are obviously simply nothing more than irrational potshots at DePo.

It is ideological. A number of people are simply very distrustful towards all things sabre and therefore will attack it whether it is good, bad or neutral. Joe Morgan is Exhibit 1.

No matter what he does, DePo will be hated by these types. Because Choi is a DePo aquisition, a number of people will oppose Choi simply for this reason.

Where did you come up with that? There's still a long time until the deadline, plus he did say he's working on half a dozen trades earlier today

true. i might be a little premature but look at the market, the giants just gave up foppert and torrealba for freakin randy winn. thats almost the equivalent of jackson and phillips for winn.

No matter what he does, DePo will be hated by these types. Because Choi is a DePo aquisition, a number of people will oppose Choi simply for this reason.

BINGO. that is what it ultimately comes down to.

65

I'm going to copy that and post it when needed. brilliant .

I'm just gonna say this. I want what's best for the team, and I certainly can imagine trading Izturis could possibly (but not necessarily) accomplish this.

But I have to say that I don't have much stomach for the chemistry and intangibles tirades that had to be endured for the past 365 days. Unless it's a slam-dunk deal, I would rather DePodesta hang onto arguably the most popular mainstream Dodger.

I wonder if DePo might sit pat, simply because it is looking more and more like this is a seller's market.

I think DePo's earlier comments that the reason he has not yet made a move were not because of lack of willingness, but lack of a partner. If Cincinnati can get 3 prospects for JOE FREAKING RANDA, and Seattle can get a good pitching prospect and a serviceable catcher for Winn, then why would DePo want to trade in the face of demands like that?

I can only imagine what Cincinnati would be demanding for Dunn...probably something along the lines of Jackson, Broxton, Billignsly, Guzman, and DePo's first born.

I wonder if Sabean is just taking TINSTAAPP to its logical conclusion. That would seem to be the common thread in all of these trades. Well, that and getting absolutely nothing worthwhile in return.

true steve. i cant wait until sabean trades matt cain though.

he already traded liriano, who is the best lefty pitching prospect in baseball right now.

trade cain! do it sabean!

Coolest relief pitcher of all time, Matt Williams (he may have played a little 3B, I can't remember), is Arizona's new GM. Any reason to guess he'll be good?

my source with the mariners isnt talking to me right now. he said he cant tell me anything. i am yelling at him for leaving me out!

moyer nixed a trade to the astros. mariners would have recieved fernando nieve. sucks for the mariners!

Reds have taken a 5-1 lead in the top of the 5th. Astacio loaded the bases, walked in a run, then a single scored 2 more. Quantrill will now try to "limit" the damage

72

Jon read steve's 65. that's what I meant to say if I knew it at that time.

79 - I read Steve's post. It doesn't conflict with anything I'm saying (although I wouldn't put "defense" on the same level as "situational hitting" and "intangibles."). But overall, I've been trying to sell that logic for the past year - and longer (random example - Eric Karros).

I think you can imagine I'm rational about Izturis. I 'm just saying that unless it's a super deal, I can do without the s---storm. If trading Izturis is for marginal gains, let's just keep the peace.

I'd have to agree with Jon, I've really hated all the fuss over LoDuca. If Izzy is dealt, Repko better not be packaged with him...

Aurilia doubles in Lopez against Quantrill, 6-1 Reds

It's such a moot point though. I'd wager my left one that Izturis isn't going anywhere, for the reason that Depo doesn't need mentioned s---storm for maybe a logical yet marginal return, and as this market dictates Izturis probably wouldn't generate much of anything in a trade right now anyways.

80

Ok, i can see that point of view. My over emoting might come from the fact that I have just realized the truth.

when you are born again, you tend to get excited. I've seen the light.

It may well be a moot point - I was just addressing the discussion that was taking place.

Griffey singled, then Dunn singled Aurilia in. 1st and 3rd, one out. San Diego looks terrible, I honestly think the DBacks are our only competition

7-1 Reds

84

is there such a thing as a moot point on DT? I don't think so.

Griffey singled, then Dunn singled Aurilia in. 1st and 3rd, one out. San Diego looks terrible, I honestly think the DBacks are our only competition

the whole NL west should just forfeit thier right for a playoff spot this fall.

No details, but Valentin was hit by a pitch and immediately left the game. No idea if he's injured or how badly if so

84
And I was just addressing the discussion as a whole, not just you. I just felt the tires spinning.

86
Definately correct there. I don't know what got into me.

89

no worries, my friend

To put a finer point on it, "defense" is real but it is used in a subjective "I like this player, therefore he plays 'defense'" sort of way (see Shawn Green). It exists, but in such a nebulous and hard to measure way that it becomes a pit into which one throws all of the alleged performance one can not measure objectively, and thereby becomes, in some hands, no better than your run of the mill lame argument about "intangibles" (see Alex Cora/Smartest Player in Baseball)

So at this point who are players that you all would actually want to trade for and actually might be available for something reasonable in our eyes?? Is there even anyone that fits this description?

I personally think that in Depo's eyes there are certainly people that fit each question but not both and we'll therefore do nothing.

I was really looking forward to some sort of genius move but I just don't think it's going to happen and I'm not bothered by it.

To me the best move would be for Depo to lay down the law with Tracy and get Choi in the lineup or get Perez in the lineup. That's it. Get an everyday lineup that can find a rhythm and wait for Drew.
Thoughts?

I think DePo has given up on Tracy ever being a manager he can work with (and rightfully so). At this point, I think he's just giving him enough rope to hang himself.

To me the best move would be for Depo to lay down the law with Tracy and get Choi in the lineup or get Perez in the lineup.

Agreed. I wonder if Tracy is Machiavellian enough to clear the deck to move Kent to first by showing us how bad he can make it.

Likely not. I think he's just stupid.

"Likely not. I think he's just stupid"

Maybe. Maybe it's some ridiculous thing about each player ingrained in his brain. I just can't imagine, however, that he looks at the lineup he created today and last night and thinks to himself 'Yes, I have created the best lineup I could out of the players I have.'

I also just can't fathom how Depo feels each day when he sees the lineup. If we feel so strongly about it, he must pull his hair out. I don't get his inaction in that regard. There are behind the scene motives we can only speculate about.

Freel was WP'd in, the Javier Valentin went dead center in Petco. 9-1 Reds

whats the word on valentin?

95-

I don't get Depo's inaction either. With all the losing going on this year, injury related or not, the opportunity is definately there to fire Tracy.

I have no basis for this, but I wonder if McCourt isn't in Tracy's corner. That's the only thing I can think of that would explain this odd pairing of a squarely sabermetric GM and a stubornly old-school manager.

Russ Langer is not particularly great at recapping games. I wasn't listening at the time, and he never mentioned it afterwards. If it weren't Langer, I would figure it wasn't serious, but I have no idea. Something should be reported by tomorrow I assume

It is unimaginable to me that Depo and JT have not conferred on the lack of playing time for Choi and the continued use of Phillips over Kent or Old Maid. Depo has blessed it or he is not doing his job and should be blamed for that. I say what I have said all along, either Depo is on board with these line-ups or something is taking place that we are unaware of.

Hard to believe Depo will remain pat tomorrw. Even if he only makes a small deal i bet he'll put his toe in the pool. He can't help himself. He loves to deal.

SD game should have been 12-1. Ross looked like crap. Passed ball resulting in run, not that it made much diffrence by then. They really look bad.

Valentin was not the answer when we traded for him and he won't be the answer when he returns. He will help but not a lot.

I'm willing to bet something happens tomorrow. I'm guessing at the very least we do something like DFA Carrarra, call up Osoria, acquire Stairs for B prospects, and option Edwards down

I agree that Depo's M.O. is to wheel and deal. I actually see a big trade happening tomorrow -- a lateral trade not involving prospects much like the LoDuca trade -- with established major leaguers changing hands. Afterall, the Marlins and the Dodgers were both in contention last year so this whole "many buyers and few sellers" thing is just b.s. --something to throw off the blood hounds in the press. And if Depo was willing to make a big trade while in first place, I think he'll be even more anxious to deal tomorrow.

We have a surplus this year at 2b, 1b, ss, and a starter who's contract is up. Plus, we can't protect all of our prospects for the Rule 5 draft. So I see some players from these spots going towards an outfielder/thirdbaseman -- probably both along with some postitions being flipped laterally with other teams in multi-team deal.

But then again it's been a strange year...

I've been away for the past couple days (apartment hunting - a total nightmare) so I don't know if this has been discussed:

Is anyone else expecting that news outlets in LA will be shredding DePodesta in Monday's editions for not improving his terrible team? The sad thing is that I can't think of a single deal I think he missed out on? Has there been even ONE significant trade pulled off by ANYONE this season? It's a total waste. Nevertheless, he will be lambasted for a perceived inaction, when his actions were really no different than the actions of any GMs. In the end, he'll be criticized for failing to land players that simply weren't available. At least at a reasonable price.

It'll read something like this:

"Last year, sailing to a division lead, he blew up the best team in the National League by sending its top setup man and heart and soul catcher to the Marlins.

This season, the wreckage from last year's disasterous midseason and offseason moves quickly disappearing beneath the calm waters of the NL West, he did nothing.

Where in the core curriculum at Harvard did he learn that first-place teams should be torpedoed, and last-place teams left to sink while their captain drifts away in the dinghy?

The Frank McCourt miser-school, perhaps?

Miser, indeed."

103 - If no move is made (still an if), that will probably be the Plaschke/Simers/talkradio approach. I don't know that the other papers will share the antipathy.

The Padres are twitching like a dead fish being zapped by a livewire. They just traded for Miguel Olivo.

I would like to see a flow chart indicating the number of times Jim Tracy has unsuccesfuly transitioned from his starter to the bullpen in his tenure as manager. Additionally, I would like the flow chart to reveal how many times he has started the wrong reliever after the sixth inning, had no one warming up in the pen, had two distinct choices to make as to whom would be the appropriate replacement, and how many times these decisions have backfired. This strange and crude method Mr. Tracy employs is predictable, chartable, and is rarely discussed in print, radio, or other media. The consistency with which he has regulated the late innings of a game are among the most embarrasing and incompetent in the history of the professional league level. The fact that he has yet to be relieved of his duties, indicates a lack of organizational intelligence and leadership. The only thing left to do is watch, with startled amazement, the mentally challenged pitching coach Jim Colburn perform his impromptu imbecilities from the dugout and scratch our collective heads at the hilbillyfication of LA. Each coaching member, from Colborn, Lett and Tracy and Hoffman (exceptions: Shelby and Mota), has a distinctly inbred quality that inspires the Special Athlete that they, themselves, purvey. A collective baseball IQ at the notable Pony League level, perhaps. The only collective group that supercedes this quartet is the zombified 55,000 fans who proceed in decaying fashion through the stadium turnstyles, assuring the drunken McCourt and his one-eyed-bride zillions of tax free shekels and a team that reflects the psychosis of the city of Los Angeles

I'm willing to bet Fick no longer catches. A tandem of Miguel Olivo and David Ross is almost as bad as Ross/Mayne, except Olivo won't call a game as good as Mayne. The Padres are making a lot of moves, but none actually improve the product on the field greatly. Towers probably felt bad because he did nothing last year and his team failed to do anything.

Uh there are a number of issues I have with post number 106 but will not be able to make them until later tonight because my movie is starting in the living room but...

Wow. Agree with little of that statement, if any after about line ten.

One day of Dave Ross was all it took for the Pods to relaize they needed another catcher, bad or good.

106 -- That is a tremendous rant, and I choose to simply overlook that which I disagree with and applaud vociferously.

Hmm ... I'm gonna start with wondering why the shekels are tax-free.

109 - Will Carroll indicates the Pads are trying to get LaRue from the Reds - they must have just remembered who that horrible catcher for the Dodgers was late last season...

110 Can't really agree. It is really just an unconstructive, unoriginal, stream of slurs. Doesn't offer anything but personal attacks that have little to do with baseball.

I agree, Plaschke and Simers will probably be insufferable Monday, but is that anything new?

Much more than on-base-percentage or VORP or whatever, the two most highly undervalued commodities by Plaschke and his ilk are prospects and low-cost players. We're talking about a guy who liked a lot of Sheriff Malone's moves. Something tells me that Plaschke would trade the entire Jacksonville Suns infield for Manny Ramirez if given the chance.

The Tsar of the Telestrator breaks it down:

The part about Jim Tracy and the bullpen is true.

The rest of it, is, as you said, a stream of slurs, but I found them amusing and not altogether unoriginal, particularly the last line, which pulls off all-encompassing offensiveness with a highly literate panache. So slurs, yes, but highly evocative slurs.

Wow, I'm going to miss some of these rants next week when I'm in Canada. I'll be dropping by, but not as often.

I think some people might need to take a step back from the edge.

Besides Dodger Tony spelled "supersede" incorrectly.

What is "hillbillyfication"? Are the Clampetts moving in? I talked to Mr. Drysdale down at the bank and he didn't know.

Why are John Shelby and Manny Mota so special?

Boy, Seattle is selling hard. So much for those big-time off season moves. I have to believe Beltre is thinking "what the hell did I get myself into. Thanks Scott."

Haven't been here in a while as the Tracy frustration is just killing me and the rants on him do no good. I gave away all of my tickets this weekend as I refuse to watch a team that plays Jason Philips at 1st base against RHP. If this situation is not resolved by the next home stand my head will explode and my wife won't have to feed the cats for a while.
We have so many better options.
1. Play Choi
2. Play Saenz
3. Play kent at 1st and Perez at 2nd base.

Is it Beltre wondering what he got into with Seattle, or is it Seattle wondering what they got into with Beltre? Oh well. They have five long wonderful years to find out.

4. Play Don Knotts
5. Play Cartman
6. Play Judge Reinhold
7. Play Greg Brock
8. Play George Sisler's rotting corpse
9. Play Loni Anderson
10. Play Marcus Welby M.D.

Here's a fun Plashcke retrospective at the 2001 deadline:

"On the darkest day of the Dodger season, a day so bleak they lost ground even though every National League team was idle, this much became clear:

If they don't make the playoffs, they can't blame Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling.

If they don't make the playoffs, the culprits will be Armando Rios, Ryan Vogelsong and Ruben Quevedo.

These were the expendable prospects used Monday by contending teams to acquire top players.

These are the types of prospects the Dodgers don't have.

They don't have them because, during the mid-1990s, they didn't sign or develop them.

For all its greatness, the Peter O'Malley legacy left the Dodgers with a poison pill now coursing through their veins.

The franchise that popularized the minor leagues no longer has a system to stand on.

We've known this for a while. But it's never affected the Dodgers quite like this.

Is it Beltre wondering what he got into with Seattle, or is it Seattle wondering what they got into with Beltre?

Good point, Steve.

If this situation is not resolved by the next home stand my head will explode and my wife won't have to feed the cats for a while.

Nice Wes Craven visual.

That's just it. Even if you accept the (dubious) premise that Phillips should play over Choi, he still shouldn't be starting at 1B.

Here are the players Tracy started today

Phillips 659
Robles 754 (and falling, 1 hit in last 27 ABs)

And here's who was on the bench

Choi 780
Saenz 863
Perez 837

And Valentin apparently is going to play the OF when he gets back (722)

Seriously, it's inexplicable. Tracy can't be that incompetent, can he? Is he intentionally trying to be fired? Is he like Peter in Office Space? Does he gut fish on the manager's desk?

120 Steve options 4,6,9,and 10 would have the added benifit of upgrading 1B while achiving Drew McCourt's goal of bringing celebs out to Dodger Stadium.

Wouldn't shekels be tax free? It's a dead currency, so it would just be barter, right? Where he's getting a zillion+ of them would be interesting to know.

Does Jaimie McCourt realy only have one eye?

Blah blah blah. Play Hee Seop Choi and half our problems go away.

You forgot Izturis's .310 OBP leading off.

Drew McCourt = Buzz McWeeny.

This just in...the Padres traded a AA outfielder and Paul Quantrill for Jack Fimple. They are still in negotiations to have Dave Sax in brown by the trading deadline. Sources say that even if they can't cut a deal for Sax by the non-waiver trading deadline, they have a moderately good chance of getting him through waivers anyway.

"What is 'hillbillyfication'?"

If you run a Google search a nice flow chart comes up explaining the process.

Getting Adam Dunn would advance the hillbilllyfication of the Dodgers, and yet I am strangely attracted to the idea.

The only collective group that supercedes this quartet is the zombified 55,000 fans who proceed in decaying fashion through the stadium turnstyles, assuring the drunken McCourt and his one-eyed-bride zillions of tax free shekels and a team that reflects the psychosis of the city of Los Angeles

This sentence deserves to win some type of award.

As a Dodger fan living in the Northwest without cable tv I don't get much chance to see for myself the team on the field. Just wondering if Robles looked good at short when Izturis was on the DL? I saw Antonio Perez play last year in the minors a few times and he did not look to me like a terrible defensive player. An infield of Kent at first, Perez at second, Robles at short and a Valentin/Edwards/Saenz platoon at third might be more productive than the current line-up. Saenz and Valentin scare me defensively, perhaps they could be moved to left as a platoon. Bradley in center and Ledee/Repko in right until Drew returns. If DePo can trade for a decent third baseman or outfielder without giving up useful pitching maybe something can be salvaged. Looks like all it is going to take to win the West is for some team to play solid baseball over a 5 week period.

Stan from Tacoma

The trade deadline could get more interesting. Nothing about the Dodgers directly, but Will Carroll seems to insist something bigger than CHP for Nevin could go down. Maybe it won't be so boring after all (we can only hope)

"It might be a couple weeks since 'Shark Week' on cable, but two of the steely-teethed sharks in the baseball world--Walt Jocketty and John Schuerholz--are slowly closing in on deals. Multiple sources say that both teams have waited out the initial "feeding frenzy" and that their GMs will come in at the last minute with 'solid deals.'"

131 -- That's what I'm saying. That's not a rant. That's literature.

#133: The scenario I'll dream about tonight is Jocketty acquiring Brian Giles from the Padres and then flipping him to the Dodgers for a slight premium.

Why would the Padres part with Giles right now, FA or not?

Because why would they need Giles when they have Olivo/Ross?

#136: I certainly don't know, but most of the Padres moves so far have been questionable. Baseball Prospectus is reporting that a Jason Marquis for Brian Giles trade is on the table.

Marquis must have really impressed Towers walking 5 Padres on Weds night. 131ip, 65k, 51bb. Ewwww.

"According to the source, 'Dusty [Baker] wants desperately to manage the Dodgers … and [supporters] would love to get a buzz going about Dusty in case the Dodgers were thinking of letting Tracy go at the end of the season.' "

http://tinyurl.com/bwxj4

would st louis resign giles in the offseason if they deal for him?

i am hoping "no" since he would be the big offseason depo aquisition.

if dusty ends up managing the dodgers, i would not follow the dodgers. I would kidnap ALL our pitching prospects and hide them in a safehouse until dusty is deceased.

142- Need a nightwatchman?

#142 - agreed, I'm afraid that my Oakland hat might get a little bit more action if Dusty were to actually get hired.

Which brings me to a related point. Really, why bother talking about trading for Adam Dunn anyways? It's not like Tracy would actually play him. He's basically Choi, but better. I'm sure we would hear all sorts of excuses about the strikeouts and defense and what-not.

I'm in agreement with #92 (and the others who seconded it), the best move we could make would be to start to properly use the players already on the roster.

from LAtimes
Teams that have what he wants — most notably the Cincinnati Reds and Tampa Bay Devil Rays — are asking for multiple premium prospects in return for proven players, and DePodesta has been unwilling to part with more than one from a group that includes infielders Joel Guzman and Andy LaRoche, pitchers Chad Billingsley, Edwin Jackson and Broxton, and catcher Russell Martin.

hmmm, so depo would trade ONE from that group!?! please god no!

As long as it's Jackson, so be it. Actually, I wouldn't be extremely sad to see Martin go, at least not if it meant getting something that made sense in return. The fact is, LA has a couple pitchers signed for at least 3 years, and about 7 guys to fill the remaining 2 spots. We might as well use them to get what we can't develop ourselves (outfielders). Otherwise, we just end up like the Twins, who feel the need to carry 13 OF/1B/DH types because they don't like to trade young players, yet believe they can get by without a legitimate middle infielder.

As far as the others go, the problem is always going to be that certain GMs are going to simply ask for X number of a teams top prospects, regardless of the team. LA, with one of the 3 or 4 best farm systems in baseball, is going to be asked for players like Guzman, simply because he's the top guy in the system.

I'd like to see Guzman kept. After that, if it's for an Adam Dunn caliber player, so be it. What I don't want to see is one of those players listed being traded for a Matt Stairs or something similarily ridiculous. Although I'd like to believe that Depo would never do something like that.

I'm afraid that my Oakland hat might get a little bit more action if Dusty were to actually get hired.

I've been rooting for the A's lately myself thanks mainly to their front office, but even us heart-and-soul-less statheads have got to show a bit more loyalty than this. I mean I grew up around the Dodgers, I'd keep rooting for them even if Joe Morgan became the manager and Bill Plaschke became the General Manager. I mean, I'd probably hang myself or jump off a bridge but I still would make sure to tune into Vin and check dodgerthoughts.com in the afterlife.

There's a problem at first-base only because Tracy insists that there be one. He has four practicable solutions even barring just giving the job to Choi--Saenz with Choi spelling him; a Saenz/Choi platoon; Kent at first with Perez at second; or Saenz with Kent spelling him and Perez taking second on those days--but seems to prefer a system of nightly whims. Second is obviously covered, and Shortstop is only a (relatively small) problem because Tracy insists on batting Izturis lead-off. Those are the two problems that are Tracy-caused, and that he can fix, but hasn't. Third-base is a problem because DePo didn't get a third-baseman at the beginning of the year, or since. It's been aggravated by injuries, but it was an obvious structural problem. The outfield entirely has been a problem since all three starters have spent extensive and overlapping time on the DL, and so has Ledee. Not Tracy's fault, and no easy solution. Phillips was a problem behind the plate, but a relatively very small one. And, for a catcher, Phililps isn't so bad hitting. I don't really care whether he catches or Navarro does; either is fine, so long as neither bats higher than seventh (sixth if Repko AND Edwards are in the line-up, AND Weaver is not pitching). DePo thought he could squeeze another year out of Erickson, Gio, Alvarez, and Dessens. Oops. Minus Gagne (and now Wunsch) that leaves Yhency, Duaner, Schmoll, and now Broxton in the bullpen. Two fewer than he might like, all young, but better than a lot of clubs'. Maybe some of them could work more than one inning per appearance?

Why bother with worrying about the Tracy-caused problems when the act-of-G-d problems are so much worse? Because I'm not Reinhold Niebuhr.

this is my dodger deadline prediction:

dodgers trade joel hanrahan, jonathan figueroa, and cody ross for matt lawton of the pirates

dodgers trade eric sults and luis gonzalez for kent mercker of the reds.

dodgers DFA giovanni carrara

thats about it.

lineup:

3b- antonio perez
lf- matt lawton
cf- milton bradley
2b- jeff kent
rf- ricky ledee
1b- choi/saenz
c- dioner navarro
ss- cesar izturis

bullpen
brazoban
sanchez
alverez
mercker
schmoll
broxton

all of a sudden, we look respectable.

I'm a bit late but...#67...Who gives Izzy a free pass? Who holds Choi up to a higher standard than other players? The media? Who listens to what the L.A. Times says? Tracy? Jim Tracy should be weaving baskets in the cotton candy room at the rainbow factory. My point is that you shouldn't take it out on Izzy because his manager is insane.

Cesar Izturis is the greatest shortstop in the history of baseball. You all have two minutes to disagree.

So, we are all in agreement. I'm glad that's settled.

140 -- You and Tim Brown need to give me back my life.

Dusty Baker is more than I could with stand. Talk about lacking in-game management skills.

The one and only time in my life that I tried to NOT root for the Blue was when Juan Marichal was on our roster. I'm afraid I may have similar feelings if Dusty Baker were ever hired to be the manager. UGH!

Dusty as manager would have us pine for the days of Jim Tracy. Hell, I'd rather have Lasorda come back than Dusty anywhere near this team.

Ok, I must qualify my next remark in stating I have not read any of the posts on this thread yet. I saw bits-and-pieces of yesterday's game and I could not believe I witnessed a) JT leaving the obviously struggling Gio in to face Scrappy Boy, and b) said Scrappy Boy hitting it into the seats.

Everytime my ACCEPTANCE foot crosses the line into DENIAL, JT once again helps me to immediately bring it back into ACCEPTANCE. It has gotten to the point of predictablity... I knew JT was going to leave Gio in because it was obviuosly time to remove him and I knew the result was that Scrappy Boy was going to hurt us.

Fire Jim Tracy.

Indeed.

Giant fans must be going crazy after Sabean has looted the future and not improved the current team. The Padre's are making silly trade after silly trade. After the trade deadline it could be the Diamondbacks who are the number one contenders and wouldn't that be something to come from last to 1st even in this crappy division. The bullpen which has been so crappy could be the strong point going into August. Valverde is just about back to his 2003 level. Lyon will be arriving in a week. Tim Worrel will help solidify the middle relief. They are still lacking pitching but that can be solved if they move anyone of a 1/2 dozen solid prospects. Going forward they will be our competition for years to come as Conor Jackson/Quentin/Drew/Upton/Santos all arrive to make contributions. Luckily Joe Junior is headed out and Matt Williams can ruin what he was building.

I expect Philips to get traded today so that Depo takes away the option of using him at 1st base. Since Depo can't tell Tracy who to play all he can do is take away his toys.

The #106 post is priceless. Can't say I disagree or agree with it but it was sure fun to read.

The Giants are 5 1/2 games out with Bonds out and Schmidt pitching poorly. What would they have done to this division if those two performed as expected? Silver linings.

It's 9:13am PST. Why is there no trade yet?!?!

Ricky Henderson thinks baseball does not want to delay his induction anf therefore they are keeping him out of the bigs.

"I don't know why, unless I've done too much in the game," Henderson said, when asked why he believes he is not on the big leagues' radar. "Most people say you're a Hall of Famer and they've got a certain date that they want me to go to the Hall of Fame. They feel that if I continue playing it would screw up when I go into the Hall of Fame. I don't think that's fair to me."

I love this guy. He is absolutly out of his mind. At least he is speaking in the first person now.

159-- because the dynamics of baseball fandom have changed. Every team's core fans and some media value prospects more than any of today's players. Would people on this board be willing to give up Joel Guzman for Manny Ramirez, straight-up. My guess is no. Chad Billingsley for Roy Halladay, straight up? Pause for a second, then no. Andy LaRoche for Vlad Guerrero. Maybe, but there would not be a consensus. And from what I see on blogs around the MLB, Dodger Thoughts posters are not unique. Prospect-worship is at an all time high. Teams that have 'em, wanna keep 'em. Teams that don't, get no end of criticism even if the "current team" (sort of a derisive term now) is in contention. Someone could make a lot of money putting together a fanzine about prospects. Find out what Chad likes to eat! Ask Joel his favorite color! Who does Andy talk to just before he goes to sleep?

I keep hearing Brandon McCarthy is available- the guy is a beast and a local boy. Can't we do Weaver for McCarthy straight up then get a B starter on the cheap? 202k/30bb last year-dang.

Padres have made their next insignificant trade, Geoff Blum to the ChiSox for 26 yr old AA pitcher Ryan Meaux

#160 - No one is cooler than Rickey Henderson. No one.

gosh even matt lawton sound good

The idea of dealing Phillips might be te best I've read on here today. Who cares what we get for him. And a Dioner/Rose catching duo can't be worse than Phillips at 1B, can it?

#161 bigcpa GREAT POST

Unfortunately, the road from prospect to suspect is pretty short. Seems like only yesterday that BA had Ruben Rivera on their top prospect list next to Derek Jeter. Only time will tell how many of the Jacksonville Suns fufill their projections.

I'm not sure that I wouldn't trade Chad Billingsley straight up for Roy Halladay. This is in no way to undermine your argument, which was basically correct.

Not that it matters what I would do.

for adam dunn, if u extend him then 2 top guys are worth it. he is 26 for crying out loud. coming into his prime for the next 3-5 years and can play OF/1b so there is flexibility with other prospects. do it. he can save this season and be a foundation for the future seasons.

Yikes, vs LHP this year Matt Lawton is Jason Phillips: .236/.328/.358.

This Baseball Tonight Trade Deadline special is starting to take on an "Al Capone's Vault" feel.

Apparrently, the big Phil Nevin - Chan Ho Park deal was THE deal of the season. I can't believe I just wrote that sentence.

Not so fast. The Nomar deal wasn't announced until 20 minutes after the deadline last year

that's a fair point

Adrian Beltre is also 26, and he has fallen off a cliff after having a better season than Adam Dunn will ever have. The Dunn-love around here is absurd. He is a low-average, bad-fielding whiff-machine about to become expensive and wants to play in Houston as soon as he hits free agency in a couple years. For that you don't give up 12 pre-free agency years of talent that at age 20 (if we are talking about trading Guzman and Billingsley) is ranked HIGHER by scouts than Dunn was ranked as a prospect at the age of 20.

there doesn't appear to be any reason to suspect that Adam Dunn will suffer, ahem, a power drop off, based upon his body type, which cannot be said for some other players who may or may not have had their performances enhanced in certain ways.

Moreover, Dunn has consistently shown power

That said, if the price is too high, I wouldn't want to acquire him at the cost of multiple "A" prospects, but for the right price, I certainly would.

I think it's the "right price" that is the sticking point

So what's going on down here?

Apparently nothing except Valentin playing LF

at least phillips isn't starting