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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Bail, Bonds - Slugger Out for the Season
2005-08-01 16:55
by Jon Weisman

Heeding the advice of the Los Angeles doctors who have been overseeing rehabilitation on his right knee for the past six weeks, San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds told on Monday that he does not foresee playing again this season.

Bonds had been hoping that he'd return to the field sometime in September, especially if the Giants remain in the National League West race. But he said a recent MRI showed he's still slightly building fluid in a knee that has been scoped three times since Jan. 31, causing intermittent swelling.

"I don't think you're going to see me out there this year," Bonds said during a telephone interview. "That's the reality of the situation. I'm improving. I'm happy with the progress. I'm working out hard on the exercise bike and the elliptical machine, but I'm just not there yet. The last thing I want is to get back on the field and be out again a week later.

Comments (178)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-01 16:59:58
1.   natepurcell
from the last thread:

theres a good article on their take on the nonmoves made by depo.

apparently, we went HARD after sweeney and adam dunn.

2005-08-01 17:02:19
2.   db1022
Yikes. Prospects AND cash? Isn't it supposed to be one or the other?
2005-08-01 17:02:39
3.   Jon Weisman
I'm not sure how you turn this sentence ...

"DePodesta would not get into specifics but sources said outfielder-first baseman Adam Dunn of the Cincinnati Reds and first baseman Mike Sweeney of the Kansas City Royals were among players pursued by the Dodgers."

... into a conclusion that we went HARD after Sweeney and Adam Dunn.

2005-08-01 17:03:51
4.   Bob Timmermann
I can sum up my thoughts for the day this way:

Argonauts 34
Blue Bombers 27

And I had a station on my TV showing a rerun of "Everybody Loves Raymond" and know it's showing local Toronto news, but it's in Italian.

This all relates to the Dodgers because Paul DePodesta got his start in sports working in the CFL, although it was a U.S. team.

The fact that Bonds is sitting out the season ranks as one of the least surprising developments of the year. I thought he was in trouble once he got an infection in his knee. That's got to be a nasty thing. That's what ended Dale Murphy's career. It's one thing to get your knee in good enough shape to walk around, but it's a whole different thing to get your self in shape to be an elite-level professional athlete.

But the Giants have Randy Winn to pick up the slack.

2005-08-01 17:07:08
5.   GoBears
4. I wonder if the Giants are ticked off that Bonds didn't make this announcment a week ago, so that they could give up any hope of making the playoffs, and get something for their marketable talent. Probably not, since Sabean seems to hate prospects anyway.
2005-08-01 17:07:57
6.   natepurcell
from other articles ive read in the past day, most of them cite adam dunn and mike sweeney as the two biggest players depo tried to make deals for.
2005-08-01 17:13:29
7.   King of the Hobos
We could still get Sweeney pretty easily, not too many people want his salary.
2005-08-01 17:14:38
8.   natepurcell
We could still get Sweeney pretty easily, not too many people want his salary.

i still wouldnt want sweeney. it would really hamper our ability to improve our team in other areas.

2005-08-01 17:18:03
9.   King of the Hobos
Sweeney would keep Phillips off first. There's really not much out there this year, after Giles it's not too pretty.
2005-08-01 17:19:43
10.   Bob Timmermann
Isn't interesting that the team in first place in the NL West (Arizona) had its GM resign at this time.

Supposedly, Matt Williams wants the job. This would be a good thing for Dodgers fans. And Padres and Giants and Rockies fans.

2005-08-01 17:21:36
11.   db1022
9 - Sweeney'd be here next year too, at $12.5M.
2005-08-01 17:22:10
12.   King of the Hobos
The market of past-their-primes-but-still-want-to-play free agents has increased. Takatsu, Boone, and Sele have all been released.
2005-08-01 17:22:31
13.   db1022
9 - Sorry I guess that's what you meant.

I wouldn't have considered it such a bad idea if it was just for this year. It's next year where it really becomes an ugly deal.

2005-08-01 17:22:36
14.   natepurcell
i really want giles in the offseason. he seems like the perfect fit. i hope the other 29 teams dont foil my offseason #1 wish
2005-08-01 17:25:09
15.   natepurcell
interesting, elbert went only 3 innings, then blake johnson just took over.

blake johnson hasnt started a game in like 3 weeks.

2005-08-01 17:27:12
16.   King of the Hobos
10-Matt Williams really doesn't have any time to mess things up. Unless he decides to release Vasquez, Webb, and whoever is their best hitter this week. He could start by signing all those released players

11-I know. I want another hitter, especially if we could get for virtually nothing. However, the money does scare me. I kinda want McCourt to put some extra money on the roster. I guess I'm divided, I just want something better than Phillips (Choi works, but he's a lost cause with Tracy)

2005-08-01 17:30:00
17.   ddger
Surprised that Edwin Jackson was included in Jacksonville Five as mentioned in LA Times.

Is Jackson still in high demand?

2005-08-01 17:32:05
18.   natepurcell
Is Jackson still in high demand?

i think depo still holds jackson in high demand.

2005-08-01 17:33:20
19.   ddger
Nate, how would you rank Jackson among our pitching prospects.
2005-08-01 17:38:36
20.   GoBears
14, re Giles:

I was at a BP "Pizza Feed" at PETCO last year, and we got an hour of Q&A with Kevin Towers. He was surprisingly forthright, and quite engaging. This was before the trade deadline, and he was asked whether the Padres were really in the Beltran sweepstakes. He said, "nah, we're just trying to jack up the price that the Dodgers will have to pay for him." In other news, he also stated that the only hitter he had who he thought "fit" PETCO was Giles. He was anxious to move Klesko and Nevin for PETCO-style players.

The reason I bring this up now is that I think he'd do anything he can to make sure Giles doesn't wear Dodger blue. Either overpay to keep him in SD, or perhaps sign and trade him out of the division.

2005-08-01 17:40:01
21.   gvette
Supposedly Armando Benitez is starting his rehab, and the Giants expect their closer back sometime in August. So ends the Tyler Walker experience.
2005-08-01 17:41:47
22.   Identity Crisis
I think there is a Jacksonville Five....I'd change Loney with Jackson though. With Abreu and Kuo there they can be a lucky 7.
2005-08-01 17:41:53
23.   natepurcell
Nate, how would you rank Jackson among our pitching prospects.

with hoch or without?


so i guess im still a believer in jackson.

2005-08-01 17:42:57
24.   King of the Hobos
I don't think Benitez is really that much better than Walker, but then Walker sets up. They still don't scare me, Winn and Benitez still are not Bonds...
2005-08-01 17:47:12
25.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants actually have some decent relievers, but Felipe Alou shows no affinity for being able to use them effectively. He goes left-right at all costs. He'd be a lot better off if he left Scott Eyre in for longer period of times. But he doesn't want to do that.

But at least he has Randy Winn now.

2005-08-01 17:48:16
26.   gvette
Winn and Benitez aren't Bonds

Unfortunately for us, Brazoban and Carrara aren't Gagne.

Not to focus on the Giants, but Grissom is quoted in the papers up there thinking that he's going to be released soon. All because of Randy Winn??

2005-08-01 17:50:12
27.   King of the Hobos
I actually came up with that name (whether you believe me or not) for the Jacksonville infield a few weeks ago (Martin, Loney, Young, Guzman, LaRoche). I still like it better for that, so I guess Abreu works. I also wanted Kemp and Raglani promoted, then stop giving Ruggiano the Choi treatment, for a full prospect offense. And poor Carlos Alvarez, he gets no love, although he should probably not have skipped Vero
2005-08-01 17:50:15
28.   Bob Timmermann
Grissom has been hurt most of the year. And has played poorly. I don't think it would be much of a surprise if he got released.
2005-08-01 17:51:09
29.   GoBears
25: Yup. And who was Jim Tracy's mentor in Montreal? Yeah, it all makes sense. Now, if Tracy's kid turns out to be as good as Moises, then he'll have really contributed something to the game. I wonder if that "peeing on your hands" tip got passed along....
2005-08-01 17:51:09
30.   ddger
23. Is Miller that good?
2005-08-01 17:54:15
31.   gvette
The way that Sabean senselessly pillages his farm system, old guys like Grissom and Snow could keep their roster spots for years.
2005-08-01 17:55:12
32.   Benaiah
30 - He was considered to be our best starter before last season only to suffer from a bad injury. If he is back, then he has a ceiling as high as anyone.
2005-08-01 17:56:25
33.   Benaiah
32 - Obviously that should read "best starting pitching prospect," we could have traded him or Jackson for the moon then, but alot less now. That said, keep the Jacksonville 5 in Jacksonville for the time being.
2005-08-01 18:00:06
34.   scareduck
31: senselessly? Sabean's last three years haven't been so great, but before that he had the Giants constantly in contention and generally on top of the Dodgers. When you have a top-five-of-all-time hitter as they do in Bonds, you tend to look at your farm as a way to get more veteran players.
2005-08-01 18:00:22
35.   ddger
Hope one of these (billingsley, miller, or hochevar) will turn out to be top of the rotation type of starter. We have too many middle of the rotation starters (Lowe, Perez, Weaver) right now.
2005-08-01 18:01:17
36.   stubbs
Last point abut Bradley bunt-gate. If Bradley swings away and does anything less than move the runners over, Tracy gets killed in the print and tv media, which is a far worse crime for him than upsetting Dodger Thoughts. Depo already most likely hates him, so keeping the media and fans in his corner is his best recourse. Not sure McCourt wants to deal with the firestorm if Tracy is made scapegoat for this throw away season.
2005-08-01 18:03:07
37.   ddger
Is it possible that Billingsley can compete for a starting spot next season if we don't sign Weaver for next year.
2005-08-01 18:06:23
38.   bigcpa
Can someone do a 40-man roster projection? I've read Nov 20th is the cutoff for setting the roster before the Rule 5.
2005-08-01 18:07:39
39.   gvette
Rob, having a GM who goes three years between good deals to a GM is like counting in dog years. Unfortunately the Giants were built to win in 2002, and would have until they ran until Tim Worrell ran into Spezio and Glaus.

In the meantime, bet he wishes a do-over on Joe Nathan.

2005-08-01 18:08:16
40.   GoBears
36: You might be right about that, stubbs. But an even simpler answer is that JT really thought that bunting was the best way to win.
2005-08-01 18:10:33
41.   gvette
#39 Somehow, that post didn't come out the way I planned.

The point is, having a GM in a three year slump isn't a good thing, especially when your roster are members of the AARP.

2005-08-01 18:11:44
42.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 22

Or the "Magnificient Seven," or even the "Seven Samurai" (Kuo's Taiwanese, so that gives a somewhat untenable link to Japanese cinema).


2005-08-01 18:14:35
43.   Benaiah
38 - I am not qualified by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn't seem like we will be able to do much. Can we cut Driefort to make room? For that matter can we take Wunsch off the roster to make room? As it stands the only interesting people on the 40 man roster are Delwyn Young (who just got to Vegas), Aybar (who will be in the already crowded infield) and an early early preview of Russell Martin. Other than that, all that would happen is we would now have space for Osoria, the Jasons, and Mike Rose.
2005-08-01 18:14:36
44.   stubbs
do trades with prospects ever happen in November? Im curious.
2005-08-01 18:15:22
45.   Jon Weisman
"If Bradley swings away and does anything less than move the runners over, Tracy gets killed in the print and tv media."

I don't believe this is true. I really don't. Having Bradley bunt (and Drew a while back) caused one of the few occasions that the media has questioned Tracy's strategy.

2005-08-01 18:21:49
46.   scareduck
39, 41: I caught the gist.

Giants fans are hopping mad:

2005-08-01 18:22:44
47.   scareduck
45: Agree 100%. Now, if Bradley BUNTS and fails to get it down, well... so here we are, and good afternoon, gentlemen.
2005-08-01 18:25:00
48.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 45/47

Tracy also got some hard questions from Tony Jackson with regards to at least one of A. Perez's attempted bunts, IIRC.


2005-08-01 18:32:34
49.   gvette
For the most part,Tracy is excellent at playing the press. His comments pre trade deadline on how great another Finley type deal would be was a pure CYA move. In other words,don't blame me if the GM doesn't get the team help.
2005-08-01 18:34:20
50.   bigcpa
Has a word been printed about the Choi situation?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-01 18:38:12
51.   scareduck
50: refresh my memory: what Choi situation?
2005-08-01 18:40:13
52.   scareduck
49: Staggering. Do you deny that the team needs offensive help?
2005-08-01 18:43:43
53.   bigcpa
51- I mean his being benched vs RHP with no explanation.
2005-08-01 18:44:37
54.   gvette
#52 Rob, you mean you don't believe that the Jacksonville Five will magically appear with their glossy Southern League stats and turn things around?
2005-08-01 18:46:42
55.   scareduck
54: gvette, if you read my blog I think you know the answer to that one.
2005-08-01 18:47:12
56.   scareduck
54: but you didn't answer my question.
2005-08-01 18:56:56
57.   bigcpa
Choi post All Star break (29 PA)

Choi full year vs. LHP (27 PA)

2005-08-01 18:59:41
58.   gvette
#56 Rob, if you've seen most of my posts in the last two months, including #39 in yesterday's thread (before the food fight broke out)you know where I stand.

IMO, for Tracy to go to the press, and beg for a trade is an attempt to grandstand,and simultaneously take the pressure off himself and put it on the front office.

2005-08-01 19:15:11
59.   jasonungar05
If Bradley swings away and does anything less than move the runners over we still have two chances to win.

sorry, i'll shut up about this now.

2005-08-01 19:16:06
60.   King of the Hobos

Interesting article from on Adam Godwin, an OF prospect drafted this year who vaguely reminds me of Scott Podsednik. And does anyone understand why David Sutherland, a typical Dodgers 1B prospect (no power) with a good eye, is nicknamed Goofy?

2005-08-01 19:19:12
61.   GoBears
Mike at Mike's Baseball Rants has a good piece on Nevin-for-Park.


Basically, he's trying to figure out why the Padres hated Nevin so much. Here's the last little bit:

So now Nevin's gone. And in his place is Chan Ho Park...And Kevin Towers is pleased by this. To paraphrase Jon Lovitz-as-Mike Dukakis, how are the Dodgers losing to these guys?

Good stuff.

2005-08-01 19:22:15
62.   natepurcell
ha adam godwin is white? i always thought he was black.
2005-08-01 19:23:15
63.   King of the Hobos
No sooner did I post that other article, that there's an article on Russ Mitchell, who was mentioned in the Godwin article. I guess just really likes Ogden...

2005-08-01 19:24:18
64.   scareduck
61: Carminati's also convinced Beane has jumped the shark. Now that the A's are a game and a half back of the Angels, he still isn't recanting.
2005-08-01 19:25:33
65.   Mush
Hey - I am going to the Dodger game Tuesday night here in Washington. Anybody else going and want to meet up?

My first time seeing the Blue Crew this season, and I am super excited.

2005-08-01 19:29:52
66.   CanuckDodger
Why is David Sutherland's nick-name "Goofy?" From what I remember of the Disney charachter of the same name, a good guess would be because Sutherland is very tall, thin, and dim.
2005-08-01 19:31:22
67.   Bob Timmermann
The Athletics are now one game back of the Angels after a 2-1 win over the Twins, beating Santana in Minneapolis.
2005-08-01 19:36:59
68.   molokai
Nate you should give up the Giles prayer. He will end up in Houston. It is a perfect fit for him next season. Why stay in a pitching friendly division/parks when he can create the havok of old in the band boxes that make up the NL central.
2005-08-01 19:38:51
69.   natepurcell
Nate you should give up the Giles prayer. He will end up in Houston. It is a perfect fit for him next season. Why stay in a pitching friendly division/parks when he can create the havok of old in the band boxes that make up the NL central.

why houston? I would think he would want to stay in socal and we would be instant front runners. we also have a hole in LF and money to spend.

2005-08-01 19:40:17
70.   natepurcell
also, the NL west is a pretty neutral division. I mean, sure we have petco and SBC park, but coors and BOB make up for that.
2005-08-01 19:40:57
71.   Suffering Bruin
Bigcpa is doing an admirable job with the defense of Choi but he's too realistic, too factual. What's needed here is good old-fashioned, aluminum foil hat-wearing, scorchingly fantastical passion. To wit...


Now, why do I hear buzzing in my ears?

2005-08-01 19:41:04
72.   King of the Hobos
He said he wouldn't mind going to Atlanta before the season, and apparently his brother really wants them to play together
2005-08-01 19:41:21
73.   King of the Hobos
72 referred to Giles
2005-08-01 19:41:23
74.   Brendan

would Houston pay him enough? I don't get that feeling from that ownership.

2005-08-01 19:41:58
75.   Suffering Bruin
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm finding it hard to type with a strait-jacket. Why do they tie them so tightly, I wonder?
2005-08-01 19:43:01
76.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I saw the crushing loss the Angels suffered last night at Yankee Stadium--I had an old High School friend (and big Angels fan) fly all the way out to NYC with another old High School friend (fan of both the Angels and Dodgers) to meet another High School friend who's now a banker in the city (we're all from Alhambra and Monterey Park) for the game. I drove up from the Baltimore area.

We must have been some sight, I had a Dodger Nomo jersey on while the big Angels fan had Angels gear.

I swallowed my recent antipathy for the Angels and rooted for them yesterday, partly due to my distaste for the Yankees. As such, it was a pretty miserable game, although the really passionate Angel fan amongst us had the toughest time of it. The Angels really lost that game, as opposed to the Yankees winning it. The Yanks actually squandered plenty of opportunites, but inept Angel fielding and general sloppiness kept the Yankees alive until Matsui's fatal triple. I also had a spirited debate on DePo--my Angels fan friend had the typical chemistry arguments. Another one of my friends actually thinks DePo has been more or less vindicated by the dismal performance of Mota, Finley, and Beltre, while my banker friend I think is just indifferent.


2005-08-01 19:44:59
77.   bokonon42
36/45- I think Jon is right. Really, it seems like Tracy is in a no lose situation: if he doesn't bunt, no matter how it turns out everybody assumes it was a DePo directive. Everybody here would, right? He's shown he has no problem sending messages through the press, so one little post-game comment about orders from above, or "trying something new", and the writers know it wasn't his idea. If he does bunt, well, that's how the game is played; can't blame a dog for barking; if DePo'd just gotten him another hitter all this could have been averted! Tracy's greek-chorus press is well tuned and knows all its lines.
2005-08-01 19:45:09
78.   natepurcell
He said he wouldn't mind going to Atlanta before the season, and apparently his brother really wants them to play together

i dont think braves would spend the money to bring in giles. I mean, when you have 3 youngsters in kelly johnson, jeff francouer and ryan langerhans that are ready to play and only get better, i dont see giles being a fit there.

2005-08-01 19:46:47
79.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 75

I am genuinely curious as to what Hee-Seop's fate will be this winter. His trade value must be nil, but unless Tracy gets religion, I don't see how Choi will ever get any useful playing time.


2005-08-01 19:52:12
80.   the OZ
Hi. I'm vacationing in a different time zone, and I miss you all already. I'm just checking in because I saw the Palmeiro suspension on ESPN's ticker, so I snuck off to a computer long enough to see that ESPN is already trying to keep him out of the Hall.

I week ago, they were writing how he was a first-ballot guy, if I am recalling correctly.

2005-08-01 19:54:26
81.   Brendan
65 Mush

SamDC is going and think there might be one other person who has said they will be at the Wash series. good luck and have a great time. you'll enjoy Navarro and Broxton

2005-08-01 20:03:23
82.   Brendan
This comment is for Dzzzrat wherever you may be.

You posted a few weeks ago that the A's would catch the Angels by Aug 1st (beginning of august is Aug 1st). I responded that Aug 1st was way too soon.

I was right and you were dead wrong!! The Angels are still up by one game

All kidding aside I have to admit that was a great prediction, I think they were 8 1/2 back when you posted that.. Well done and wanted to give you the credit you deserve.

2005-08-01 20:09:50
83.   Jim Hitchcock
71 - SB, schedule another off day. Really...:)
2005-08-01 20:18:28
84.   King of the Hobos

Alvarez will go on the disabled list, rehab, and return when rosters expand. he will retire after the season and forfeit his money next year. If he deosn't feel he can return, he will undergo the surgery. Osoria is expected to replace him

Now we need to throw Carrara away and get Gonzalez or Kuo, and switch Houlton and Dessens. At that point, we'll have 7 guys with a total of 8.5 seasons between them in the majors

2005-08-01 20:20:52
85.   Landonkk
Not sure if it has been talked about tonight, but is reporting that Alvarez will go on the DL to rehab his shoulder once again in hopes of being able to contribute in September. I f it doesn't go well he says he will retire and forfeit his 2 million guaranteed salary next year.

What a stand up guy. Somebody please mail this article to Darren Dreifort.


2005-08-01 20:21:48
86.   Landonkk
proper link:
2005-08-01 20:23:22
87.   willhite
Agreed. How many guys do you know who would walk away from 2 mil. He could have had the surgery right after the season, pretended to rehab and collected his dough.
2005-08-01 20:24:13
88.   db1022
"However, he has decided to retire at the end of the season and forfeit $2 million guaranteed salary for next year."

Bless his little heart.

2005-08-01 20:25:35
89.   willhite
No way Tracy goes the rest of the year without a situational lefty. Who do we have in the minors, or what scrapheap guy is out there just waiting to be released by someone?
2005-08-01 20:26:30
90.   db1022
87 - Yeah, he's really been a great Dodger, all things considered. This is a good way for him to be able to go out.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up staying on with the organization in some way.

2005-08-01 20:26:58
91.   King of the Hobos
If Osoria comes up, then our situational lefty will be Choi more than likely...
2005-08-01 20:28:13
92.   willhite

The definition of "situational" I believe, means he has to be used once in awhile. I don't think Choi would qualify.

2005-08-01 20:29:26
93.   willhite
How about Fernando? He could probably still throw better than anyone else we could find.
2005-08-01 20:34:09
94.   King of the Hobos
Who has the best arm, Ledee or Choi? Them, Perez, and Cody Ross are our only healthy left handed throwers on the 40 man roster
2005-08-01 20:36:48
95.   natepurcell
eric stults, luis gonzalez (but he walks too many people)
2005-08-01 20:39:07
96.   Jon Weisman
That is something else from Alvarez. When he first signed his minor league contract with the Dodgers, I had no hopes for him. But he's been the tops in my mind.
2005-08-01 20:39:21
97.   jasonungar05
The definition of "situational" I believe, means he has to be used once in awhile. I don't think Choi would qualify.

that is so damn funny. I'll tell you what, you guys are all pretty funny.

2005-08-01 20:42:07
98.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I don't blame Darren for not giving up the money that was contractually due to him, but for that reason, I give Alvarez all the more credit for not taking money he didn't feel he deserved.


2005-08-01 20:42:41
99.   King of the Hobos
DePo can continue his roster shift and get rid of Carrara, so Osoria and a random lefty comes up (anyone but Venafro)

Nate, you have splits for Stults, Gonzalez, O-Rod, Kuo, and Venafro?

2005-08-01 20:47:07
100.   dzzrtRatt
Alvarez was amazing in 2003. That's when I thought Jim Colborn could do no wrong. It was a pleasure having him on the Dodgers. He was ineffective this year, but he was a gamer and a good role model. Vaya con Dios.

P.S. Brendan, thanks for the salute. I hope it was me who made the prediction. I think it was. The A's are indestructible, even though they look anything but. Billy Beane must have had one of those clown dolls with a rounded bottom that bounces right back after you knock it down.

I think the Angels will snap out of this temporary collapse, and the two teams will have an interesting race. I'll be rooting for both of them (division & WC), because I'm sick of the Boston v. New York song and dance.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-01 20:49:03
101.   gvette
Classy move by Alvarez. Hope the Dodgers do keep him as an instructor in their system.

#93 Isn't Fernando going to be pitching in the Mexican Winter League again? Will we have another opportunity to throw our sombreros in the air? Hey, his marginally talented clone, Denys Reyes is probably still available.

2005-08-01 20:50:58
102.   Bob Timmermann
Yeah, it's been so long the wild card came out of the AL West. Like all the way back in 2002.

It just seems longer with the Yankees and Red Sox meeting in the playoffs because they've had two intense series in 2003 and 2004.

And then there is the small problem that the A's-Angels rivalry is about 1/100th as intense as the Dodgers-Giants rivalry.

Are there A's fans who look back and say to themselves "Man, I hate what Leroy Stanton did back in 1972!" or Angels fans going "I can't stand Rob Picciolo!"

2005-08-01 20:51:07
103.   natepurcell
Nate, you have splits for Stults, Gonzalez, O-Rod, Kuo, and Venafro?

not lefty/righty splits. At the end of the year, im going to ask my buddy to get me all the stats on every minor leaguer in our system.

2005-08-01 20:51:56
104.   Marty
How many games do the Angels have left with Oakland? I'm enjoying the A's resurgence. It will be fun to watch that race come down to the wire.
2005-08-01 20:52:28
105.   Bob Timmermann
I would steer clear of Reyes. Any reliever the Padres have given up on is not a good gamble. Reyes was Bochy's last choice out of the pen. I think that job has gone to Paul Quantrill.
2005-08-01 20:54:10
106.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels have 10 games left with Oakland.

Seven of them in Oakland.

2005-08-01 21:00:10
107.   bill cox
Maybe the 51's do need Erickson.Heath Totten gave up 13 hits and 8 earned runs in 3 and a third innings .Geesh,no wonder the guy was on steroids earlier in the year.
2005-08-01 21:03:34
108.   gvette
#102 Bob, As a kid I remember there was a game in '71 between the Angels and A's that was memorable because
1) It was the longest game the Angels ever played;
2)At about 4am Tony Conigliaro called an emotional press conference and quit after multiple strikeouts,

Those kind of things happened a lot to the Halos in the 70's (and 80's and 90's)

2005-08-01 21:09:53
109.   King of the Hobos
Speaking of roids, what happened to Farmer? Haven't seen his name in awhile.
2005-08-01 21:10:33
110.   Steve
I am glad that we are not repeating last year's horrible tragedy. If Wilson can come back all to the good. If not, thanks for last year. We still don't blame you for Tracy making you pitch to Pujols instead of one-legged Rolen.
2005-08-01 21:12:11
111.   Brendan
Oh yeah it was you dzzrtRatt. I made a point of remembering the predicition because I thought it was crazy at the time. Sept maybe, I thought but no you said beginning of august.
2005-08-01 21:36:38
112.   LAT
I too appreciate what the fat tub of goo has done over the last few seasons, but lets not get carried away. While its noble to say you'll give back the $2M if it doesn't go well, let's see how he defines "doesn't go well" when the time comes and if he actually gives up the dough. If he does give it back, then nice gesture but get your head, not your shoulder, examined. If he doesn't then he's like most people and this is much ado about nothing.
2005-08-01 21:36:42
113.   molokai
Wilson may you go out in style. Keep the money, you signed a contract and you deserve it. You don't owe McCourt or Depo jack. It was Evans that gave you your chance not the current admin.

Why does everyone here think Osorio will be better then Carrera? The grass is not always greener. I would think that with Wilson hitting the DL that Kuo would be the natural pickup.

2005-08-01 21:36:47
114.   capdodger
65 Mush - I'm probably going to be going to the game on Tuesday.
2005-08-01 21:42:22
115.   Steve
I don't at all care whether he gives the money back or they buy him out or whatever. They signed the contract. Just don't send him out there to die every other day. I still have flashbacks.
2005-08-01 21:46:55
116.   Steve
Also, without speaking for anyone else, I think it's not expected for Osoria to do better than Carrara, but for Osoria to do about as badly as Carrara, with the opportunity to learn and improve from the experience. My sense, on Carrara, is now that we've gotten rid of Erickson, we can carry one Carrara-type as long as Tracy doesn't use him in one run games (yeah, right, I know, my lips to Choi's ears), but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Osoria back either.
2005-08-01 21:51:44
117.   rageon
Carrara isn't the best guy around, but I'm not opposed to having him stick around as a 5th or so option in the bullpen. Unless he's lost velocity or something, the guy can still make outs in the right situation. The problem comes when we send him out there in the 8th inning of a close game to get a team's 4-6 hitters out. But I would argue that Carrara certainly isn't the biggest problem we're facing right now. It comes to not having another setup guy we can trust, unless Schmoll somehow ends up being that guy.
2005-08-01 21:52:14
118.   King of the Hobos
113-From the story

"The club had no roster move to announce Monday, but is believed considering the recall of Franquelis Osoria from Triple-A Las Vegas. That would leave the Dodgers without a left-handed reliever."

2005-08-01 21:54:26
119.   rageon
#118 - I just hope that JT doesn't go into panic mode without a lefty. Although I honestly think it might be better this way, as perhaps he won't be blinded by the whole R/L thing. Once again, JT needs to be saved from himself.

Another reason to release Philips.

2005-08-01 22:01:19
120.   Steve
119 -- I have long regretted the point when Tracy's misuse of a player gives me no recourse but to hate them. Phillips not only stood up to Simers earlier this year, but is a useful spare part that we stole from the Mets. But now, he's just the last guy in the world who should be playing first base.
2005-08-01 22:05:37
121.   CanuckDodger
109 -- Tom Farmer was released.
2005-08-01 22:08:11
122.   King of the Hobos
If Osoria were promoted, would anybody actually be surprised if Choi or Ledee appeared in the bullpen tomorrow?
2005-08-01 22:36:58
123.   Ken Arneson
Re: 102: Are there A's fans who look back and say to themselves "Man, I hate what Leroy Stanton did back in 1972!"

1972, no. 1974, yes. Stanton hit a home run in the first MLB game I ever went to, and the Angels beat the A's, 9-5. I still don't like it.

2005-08-01 22:45:08
124.   FirstMohican
I take the lack of a lefty in the bullpen as a message from DePo reminding Tracy who's in charge. It's still debatable.
2005-08-01 22:48:32
125.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, I see Ken has got links working...

So how did you like Dodger Stadium?

2005-08-01 22:55:37
126.   b1ued0dger
Re: 123: How do you link to another post.
2005-08-01 23:09:32
127.   Odysseus
On the plus side: we can either win the division, or DePo has a ready made rationale for firing Tracy.
2005-08-01 23:25:47
128.   Linkmeister
So DT is the guinea pig for testing HTML links? I haven't looked: is this the busiest of the Baseball Toaster blogs?
2005-08-01 23:57:51
129.   capdodger
128: Is the Pope Catholic?
2005-08-02 00:02:24
130.   bokonon42
You can link to earlier comments by putting them in dual brackets [[ X ]] (without the spaces between the number and the brackets).

e.g. [1]

2005-08-02 00:03:24
131.   Linkmeister
capdodger, not my variety of Catholic, but then he'd say I wasn't his variety, since I've been lapsed for about 30 years. ;)
2005-08-02 00:03:40
132.   bokonon42
Oh, doesn't work if the comment is in a collapsed comment 50-pack. I think.

Test: [125]

2005-08-02 00:06:35
133.   Jim Hitchcock
Okay, give it up,'d you learn that?
2005-08-02 00:18:42
134.   bokonon42
I'm Kenneth Arneson's evil alter ego.
2005-08-02 00:21:40
135.   bokonon42

It's wiki formatting. Not all the wiki tricks work here, but once I saw that linking was possible it only took me six tries to figure out how to do it. I'm pretty sure external linking doesn't work. Or italics.

2005-08-02 00:30:25
136.   Jim Hitchcock
135 - Thanks. I can sleep soundly now :)
2005-08-02 00:38:49
137.   bokonon42
I'm not sure it's clear that I'm not complaining. I'm really not. Baseballtoaster rocks. Italics or no, this is my favorite website; I still can't quite get over how many cool things are available for free on the internet. People work for free. I don't get it, but I'm grateful that they do.
2005-08-02 00:56:06
138.   rageon
I finally listened to the clip of BP Radio from last Saturday. Depo was not exactly overly complimentary of Jim Tracy. He didn't say anything bad, but I would expect most GMs to be a bit more glowing. Maybe that's just Depo's style, but I was pleased to see it regardless. Will lead him into a question about doing a lot with a little and Depo didn't even acknowledge that statement. So that was my little ray of hope for the day. (that and Blanton beating Santana)
2005-08-02 01:39:23
139.   Jim Hitchcock
137 - Didn't come across as complaining at all, bokonon. And I agree, I've been as happy as a bug in the rug since Jon made the switch. Posting is a breeze, and I love the creative touches possible. I'd have to guess that the Toaster is at least partly responsible for the explosive growth of this site. (no offense, Jon :) ).
2005-08-02 02:28:39
140.   Fearing Blue
#23: Nate, I would rank our top 10 pitchers slightly differently:

1) Chad Billingsley (RHP, AA)
2) Jonathan Broxton (RHP, MLB) - I give Broxton a little more credit since he's shown dominance and versatility.
3) Luke Hochevar (RHP, Unsigned)
4) Greg Miller (LHP, A+) - Shoulder injuries are a red flag for prospects and even though he had perhaps the best stuff in our system, until he can pitch 6 - 7 innings every 5 days I'm a little concerned.
5) Chuck Tiffany (LHP, A+) - I had a tough time deciding between Tiffany, Kuo, Orenduff and Jackson, but Tiffany and Orenduff have been putting up good numbers and healthy so I put them on top. Nonetheless, they do not have the same upside as Kuo and Jackson.
6) Justin Orenduff (RHP, AA) - The fact that Nate forgot Orenduff is a testament to the quality of our system. Orenduff struggled initially after his promotion to AA, but has been dominating since.
7) Hong-chih Kuo (LHP, AA) - Definitely the biggest risk injury risk in the group. But along with Billingsley, Broxton, Hochevar, Miller, and Jackson, he has top-of-the-rotation stuff. And, he's been dominant so far this year, which is why I ranked him ahead of Jackson.
8) Edwin Jackson (RHP, AA) - Still young and still very good stuff, but is not dominating hitters like he should be. I must admit that I am gradually losing faith. Perhaps a move to the bullpen would help?
9) Scott Elbert (LHP, A) - Has been the best pitcher on the Columbus staff and could have top-of-the-rotation potential.
10) Julio Pimentel (RHP, A+) - Pitching very well for Vero Beach, but overshadowed by Tiffany and Miller.

Honorable mentions: Eric Stults, Eric Hull, Carlos Alvarez, Mark Alexander, Jose Diaz, Christopher Malone, Blake Johnson, Josh Wall, Mike Megrew, Javy Guerra.

2005-08-02 05:36:49
141.   Bob Timmermann
In Mike DiGiovanna's Angels notebook he quotes Joe Torre saying that he was happy with his team because they played "scrappy" the last two games to beat the Angels.

Embrace scrapiness!

2005-08-02 07:27:48
142.   Sam DC
Cap, Mush - I'll be there tonight in Sec 313 row 3. Would love to say hello, though I'll be the one holding a four-month old, chasing a four-yeard old, and arriving late and leaveing early. Tomorrow, however, I have a hall pass to go with a buddy.

Esteban Loaiza has never hit a homerun, so Weaver's run for the homers-to-pitchers record may not advance much tonight.

2005-08-02 07:38:56
143.   coachbean
Couple of random morning comments...

1) With regards to Wilson Alvarez retiring and giving up $2 million... I doubt this will happen. what may happen is that DePodesta and Alvarez work out a retirement with some sort of buyout. I think $1 million might do the trick. Cosidering the Dodgers didn't add any payroll at the trade deadline, and that it would save the team money through next season this might be a good offer. Also by commenting to the press that he is contemplating retirement instead of perpetually stinking, he sort of forces the Dodger management to do something... they can't let him just hang around and collect checks because of the negative PR.

2) Anyone here think that Bonds may be sitting out this season to get his system clear of steroids? I don't know if I believe this but could a minor knee injury have gotten this bad and beeen so unpredictable as this one has? My theory is that Bonds is taking monthly steroids tests on his own and when they come up positive... he says it might be another 6 weeks before he returns. Also the timing between Palmiero getting caught and Bonds being out for the season is a little too coincidental. I think that when he saw Raffy test positive, he just looked at a calendar and saw if he sits out the season that'll be another 8 months to make sure his system is really clean. I of course hae no proof nor any knowledge of how long it takes to "clean" the body of steriods, but its an interesting theory.

3) Nice to see my favorite sleeper pitching prospect Julio Cesar Pimentel getting some love from our prospect gurus nate and fearing blue. I don' know if he is better than anyone listed above him but his numbers are either close to, equal to, or better than Tiffany's and he always gets mentioned on top prospect lists. Also he is almost a year younger than Tiffany.

2005-08-02 07:57:45
144.   Jim Hitchcock
143 - 2 - I doubt that's it, coachbean. To the best of my knowledge, THC has the longest shelf life testing wise, and it is only detectable in urine for 3 weeks or so. From what I've read, stimulants clear out in three days or so, other drugs a bit longer. So I think it's unlikely.
2005-08-02 08:04:35
145.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, guess I should have googled first; I clearly had no idea what I was talking about in reference to steroids: The chart list here gives worst case scenarios of three weeks for oral use and three to nine months for different injectable forms:

Well, at least I learned something interesting.

2005-08-02 08:13:11
146.   Jim Hitchcock
Which leads to another question: Is it too late for Palmeiro to pick up a product endorsement deal for the above product?
2005-08-02 08:16:14
147.   coachbean
Just looked it up on, (theres a site name for you)

"This, of course, depends on the actual substance (amount and type) and the person using them. Steroids can remain detectable in a persons system anywhere from 1 week to over a year after use."

They also list that: nandrolone decanoate can be detected for 18 months and nandrolone phenylpropionate can be detected for 12 months.

Or course they also state that "This isn't medical advice, only information gathered from various sources"

So I will leave your judgement of this information up to whether you think this site is reputable enough.

Also when it comes to steroids I think that some of the roid freaks have knowledge equal to or greater than the averge doctor, if only because their knowledge is directly related to their lifestyle and well being. Their knowledge may be annectdotal and speculative rather than scientific and statistical, but it is still valuable. Put it this way... If I wanted to enhance a specific aspect of my physiqe or performance, I'll bet Jose Canseco could make a better "prescription" than 8 out of 10 doctors. Of course I also think that many of the roid freaks are willfully ignorant of the detrimental aspects of steriods compared to the average doctor... so you can draw your own conclusions.

2005-08-02 08:28:06
148.   fanerman
Re: Wilson Alvarez,
Maybe we can bring him in as manager or something.
2005-08-02 08:44:31
149.   Johnson
#143 coachbean
Re: Tiffany/Pimentel
I love that Pimentel is a year younger than Tiffany, but aside from the home runs that Tiffany surrenders (1.63/9IP), his numbers do look better than Pimentel's. Tiffany's WHIP is 1.21 (which doesn't seem that great) but he has as many strikeouts as W+H (10.9 K/9). Only Pedro, Peavy, and Santana have more Ks than W+H for starters in the big leagues this year (so far as I can tell from a quick check), so that puts Chuck's numbers in pretty good company. Pimentel's numbers (WHIP = 1.41, K/9 = 8.3) are nice, but I hope he gets his hits down.

On a related note, does anybody know anything about Mark Alexander, who's closing in Vero? He's 24 so he's a bit old for the league, but in 52 innings his K/9 is 14!

2005-08-02 08:48:56
150.   Colorado Blue
143 #2 - What a interesting theory. One I hadn't even thought of. It is certainly within the realm of possibility. I remember during Spring Training when Bonds was laying into the press about how they had finally beat him down. At the time I thought Bond's logic odd given it was a knee injury. How does the press's relentless inquiries contribute to one's knee getting hurt?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-02 08:51:56
151.   fanerman
#143 - 2,
He doesn't get tested if he's not currently active? (I'm asking. I don't know how that works.)
2005-08-02 08:57:58
152.   gcrl
i believe espn reported earlier this season that bonds was tested, along with some other teammates (randomly).

i have read other conjecture that selig has persuaded bonds to sit the year out to avoid harsher penalties from mlb.

2005-08-02 09:07:44
153.   capdodger
Sam, Mush - I'll be in Sec. 316, Row 17. White button-down shirt and a tweed cap. Despite needing to go down to the DMV in Judiciary Square this afternoon, I should be at the game from start to finish. I look forward to meeting y'all.

151- I think I've read that DLed players are subject to testing, but am not sure about that.

2005-08-02 09:24:19
154.   coachbean
[151] Don't know if inactive players get tested, but given some of the medications that those recovering from surgery may have to take... possibly antibiotics (for infections), possibly sterions (to increase reovery time) it seems reasonable that they are not tested... do you think MLB is testing Darren Dreifort?

[148] I think a $1 million buyout and a minor league pitching coach position would be beneficial for both sides in the long run.

[149] Tiffany's BB+H to K ratio is impressive when looking at major leaguers with similar numbers, but if you look at it that way Pimentel's Hr/IP ratio 4/99 also probably puts him in an elite company of big leaguers (I don't have time to check). This stat is a bit more "flukey" than Tiffny's but its still impressive.

Also I just noticed that Pillkington was on the Vero roster and doing alright... does he still have any "prospect" left in him?

2005-08-02 09:54:30
155.   Brendan
i have read other conjecture that selig has persuaded bonds to sit the year out to avoid harsher penalties from mlb

Normally, I would not believe this but the Palmerio case has got me thinking. I read where they gave him a special hearing after the positive drug test. No one else, who failed a test, has received a special hearing. If they are giving the appearance of bending the rules for Raffy what would they do for Bonds. It just has me thinking, not that I believe but it might not be outside the realm of possibility.

2005-08-02 09:58:49
156.   Johnson
#154 coachbean
Agreed on Pimentel's HR/9 ratio. 0.36 per game? Fantastic. Do you know if he's a sinkerballer or is there another reason for that?
2005-08-02 10:32:25
157.   fanerman
Today is a slow day.
2005-08-02 10:35:41
158.   Jon Weisman
According to the Las Vegas Sun, in case there was any doubt about his callup, Osoria left Las Vegas on a Monday afternoon flight to D.C.
2005-08-02 10:40:23
159.   Colorado Blue
157 - Trade deadline hangover effect.
2005-08-02 10:40:41
160.   Marty
I'm guessing Osoria wasn't being called to testify before Congress...
2005-08-02 10:45:05
161.   fanerman
How come Dessens doesn't pitch much?
2005-08-02 10:50:05
162.   King of the Hobos
Dessens and Choi must have done something to anger Tracy. Maybe they took the last 2 rice puddings when Tracy really wanted one?
2005-08-02 10:53:01
163.   fanerman
I have to admit, for a time, I forgot Dessens was even on the roster.
2005-08-02 10:55:17
164.   Fearing Blue
#149: My knowledge of Mark Alexander is strictly biographical, since I have yet to read any sort of scouting report on him. Last year, he was drafted by the Dodgers in the 20th round after spending 4 years at the University of Missouri. He pitched well for Ogden (34.0 IP, 2.65 ERA, 9.79 K/9, 2.12 BB/9, 1.06 HR/9), which seems to be quite a feat based on how our pitchers are performing there this year. This year, he skipped Columbus and went straight to Vero Beach, where he has also been dominant. He won't be required to be added to the 40-man roster until after next season, which may explain why the Dodgers aren't rushing him. Still, his numbers with Vero Beach have been downright silly (52.1 IP, 1.89 ERA, 13.99 K/9, 3.45 BB/9, 0.52 HR/9), so it would be nice to see what he could do in AA.
2005-08-02 11:05:46
165.   GoBears
Ja see that Ryan Franklin just got a 10-day suspension for steroids?
2005-08-02 11:11:13
166.   fanerman
Thanks for the heads up.
2005-08-02 11:25:29
167.   Xeifrank
Paul DePodesta is going to be on the Mason/Ireland show at 1pm today. They said they will ask him about the trades that were almost made. Probably alot of B.S., but might be worth a listen.
vr, Xei
2005-08-02 11:42:56
168.   GoBears
167: Well, I avoid sports talk radio like the plague, but I'll listen in to hear PDP's spin on things. What station is that (in LA)?
2005-08-02 11:58:49
169.   Brendan

espn 710

2005-08-02 12:01:19
170.   GoBears
Thanks Brendan.
2005-08-02 12:10:49
171.   Steve
Mason/Ireland, IIRC, are in that category of "least objectionable." Mason was on the blogging panel last spring with Weisman.
2005-08-02 12:11:36
172.   Kilgore Trout
#140: Fearing Blue,

Just looked at your rating of the pitchers.

Is Hanrahan completely off the radar?

2005-08-02 12:13:51
173.   King of the Hobos
If any of you wanted to sign Polanco, well tough luck. Four year extension, I guess the Tigers FO decided Infante wasn't their future 2B
2005-08-02 12:47:07
174.   ElysianPark62
DePodesta is quite adept at dodging questions. Re: the comment about Tracy making do with less, I certainly would expect DePodesta to stay away from that one. Acknowledging it would be admitting that the depth DePodesta assembled was sorely lacking. There is no excuse to let people like Grabowski and Erickson hang around for as long as they did. In Grabowski's case, he had 1 1/2 seasons of ineptitude--absolutely pathetic.
2005-08-02 12:47:24
175.   ElysianPark62
DePodesta is quite adept at dodging questions. Re: the comment about Tracy making do with less, I certainly would expect DePodesta to stay away from that one. Acknowledging it would be admitting that the depth DePodesta assembled was sorely lacking. There is no excuse to let people like Grabowski and Erickson hang around for as long as they did. In Grabowski's case, he demonstrated 1 1/2 seasons of ineptitude--absolutely pathetic.
2005-08-02 12:47:49
176.   ElysianPark62
Oops, sorry for the double post. I tried to edit. Oh, well.
2005-08-02 12:52:06
177.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2005-08-02 12:58:14
178.   b1ued0dger
[164] Good idea. The suns need a new closer now that Broxton was called up.

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