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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

They've Been Handed Their Behinds All Too Often
2005-08-10 12:27
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tonight's Game

Dodger record when leading after ...

38-9 six innings

39-3 seven innings

41-2 eight innings

Though the Dodgers in recent years have been indomitable with a lead in the late innings, and though the bullpen looks considerably weaker this season, and though last night's finish was disastrous, the Dodgers have still been strong in closing out games.

However, they have only held a lead after six innings in 42 percent of their games this season.

* * *

Did anyone hear Vin Scully say, "I feel like Jeff Kent," as the Dodger broadcast Tuesday came back from commercial late in the game. Kent had struck out four times by this point.

* * *

Mike Edwards was optioned to AAA Las Vegas to make room for the addition of Jose Cruz, Jr., according to the Dodger press notes.

Comments (433)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-10 12:37:05
1.   Jeromy
The loss of Gagne has had a significant impact on the win/loss record this year. He simply stablized the bullpen in same way that other elite closers (Rivera, Wagner) do. Even if Gagne was to blow a save or two, I believe that if he was healthy, they would have at least 7 more victories right now. And if Drew never breaks his hand . . .
2005-08-10 12:37:31
2.   Warren
What has been so frustrating for me this season isn't the blown leads in late innings but the bullpen killing so many rallies. They'll get in a hole to start the game, get within striking distance, then the bullpen allows the big hit(s) and any chance for a comeback goes out the window.
2005-08-10 12:39:53
3.   Jeromy
I agree with Warren. Even in last night's disaster when Schmoll gives up the 3-run jack to Burrell. If Schmoll/Broxton and Co. stops the damage there, perhaps Ledee's homerun extends the game.
2005-08-10 12:46:45
4.   King of the Hobos
The site's ging down at 11 PM PT, so the Dodgers better not go to extra innings. How else will I celebrate either a win or my further acceptance?
2005-08-10 12:47:10
5.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres will likely win the division because their bullpen is actually respectable.

The Giants bullpen, which is much maligned, hasn't been too bad, but Alou utilizes it very poorly in my opinion.

2005-08-10 12:57:49
6.   Ken Arneson
I'll wait until the games are over before I take the site down...
2005-08-10 13:03:26
7.   Sam DC
But at Dodger Thoughts, the G(h)ame's Never Over.
2005-08-10 13:09:37
8.   Bob Timmermann
Ken will at least wait until the Oakland-LAA game is over.
2005-08-10 13:14:24
9.   Ken Arneson
Last night, that would have been at 7:06pm.
2005-08-10 13:18:42
10.   Jacob L
The thing with this Dodger team is that, depending on what day it is, you can never pin it on any particular part of the team. Yeah, we haven't had enough late leads to make the occasional bullpen meltdown a huge factor. But why is that? At one time it was horrible starting pitching. Now the starting has been pretty good for a while, but we're not scoring runs. No part of this team has been good all year. No part has been horrible. Its like whack-a-mole.
2005-08-10 13:19:54
11.   db1022
I wonder what the "average" record is in the above situations across all teams. I would think that most teams have a solid record in the stated situations.

If these stats reflect an above average bullpen, I guess that puts it on the starters and an inconsistent offense.

2005-08-10 13:25:51
12.   Kayaker7
11 Yeah, I agree. Most teams win if they are leading late.
2005-08-10 13:32:52
13.   Bob Timmermann
Looking at some research posted by Dave Smith on Retrosheet's site, I've found out these bits:
1) The 1954 Indians won the most games when leading after 8 without losing any: 97. The 1998 Yankees were 102-1 in that situation.
2) The 1978 Mariners have the worst winning percentage of a team leading after 8. They were 41-10 or .804.
3) In Dave's study, historically, teams come from behind to win 43.7% of the time. This means trailing at any point in the game.
2005-08-10 13:53:44
14.   rageon
Baseball America story on Greg Miller:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050810dish.html

2005-08-10 14:16:54
15.   Warren
Good artile from BA. Glad to see Jackson getting back to form. It'll be VERY interesting to see Miller in the fall league.
2005-08-10 14:17:20
16.   natepurcell
the last 3 games, jackson, orenduff, billingsley have combined for:

21IP 5singles 0ER 4BB 18K

2005-08-10 14:19:37
17.   natepurcell
im going to try and make it out to some miller AFL games hopefully.
2005-08-10 14:24:17
18.   Midwest Blue
Nate:

Even though it is pure fantasy, what do you think would happen if in a week DePo shipped up all three to pitch in the bigs?

2005-08-10 14:34:29
19.   Kilgore Trout
As 2 pointed out, closing games is only part of the story.

In terms of keeping the Dodgers in close games that are tied or they are losing, it would certainly seem that this year's bullpen is much worse than last year.

Don't know how this could be measured other than just global ERA.

By the way, I've been trying to stay in DENIAL for as long as possible, but after last night's loss and Padre win, I find myself with no choice but to move over to ACCEPTANCE. Is there anyone out there who still thinks the Dodgers can pull this one off?

(There are definitely teams out there that could pick up 7 games over a month and a half - but at the moment, the Dodgers are clearly not one of them.)

2005-08-10 14:39:25
20.   natepurcell
Even though it is pure fantasy, what do you think would happen if in a week DePo shipped up all three to pitch in the bigs?

i think all three would be nervous as hell, jackson less nervous because hes been here before, but billingsley and orenduff would be pretty wild, probably struggle to find the Kzone.

then i would go to various dodoger message boards, and see countless people whine and complain how these kids suck and how they want to send them back to the minors.

2005-08-10 14:40:37
21.   jasonungar05
Yeah when Burrell went deep I gave up. I am going on record saying it because for the last 2 months I have been on record saying we are not out of it and that has not helped obviously..

6 teams in baseball have won LESS games than the dodgers.

KC, Tampa Bay, Pitt, Colorado, Seattle and SF.

If we go 0-2 in our next two and Pitt, Seattle and SF go 2-0 then we are only better than the Devil Rays, Colorado and Tampa. Thats sad. Bring up the kids, play choi and perez and lets move towards next year now.

2005-08-10 14:48:07
22.   Bob Timmermann
No one ever claims to be in Anger, Depression or Bargaining? Why is that?
2005-08-10 14:50:34
23.   fanerman
22 - I think we've all spent time there. It's just that we got to acceptance after the Dodgers hit the low point (sometime in July, after Drew got injured, right?). Then people just swayed back to denial after a few wins. I think a few of us (I certainly) went back even further, but for most of us, we either were in denial, acceptance, or somewhere in-between for the last few weeks.
2005-08-10 14:51:32
24.   Jon Weisman
2, 19 - I'm sympathetic, but taking what is said in 12 and 13 on faith, it would seem that even though there's the illusion that the bullpen is letting us down in close games with a deficit, it would appear that the Dodgers really weren't likely to come back and win very many of those games even if the bullpen held its ground.
2005-08-10 14:51:59
25.   Midwest Blue
20 Thanks. It's what I suspected but I wanted to get your opinion. New chant for thsi weekend: PLAY CHOI NOW

To go along with the always popular TRA-CY SUCKS.

2005-08-10 14:52:17
26.   fanerman
Nate,
Any chance some of our AA studs will crack the rotation next year at some point?

If Bills, Jackson, Orenduff, maybe even Miller can finish the season dominating AA, maybe some are due for a mid-season call-up.

2005-08-10 14:53:14
27.   Yakface
I've mainly been numb.
2005-08-10 14:55:04
28.   Midwest Blue
27 Dodger Fans: Uncomfortably numb.
2005-08-10 14:56:58
29.   Midwest Blue
Hey, since it's been so long since I've actually been in the place (over 20 years), are there any suggestions from DT for things not to miss inside the old park (aside from a must-have Dodger Dog)?
2005-08-10 14:59:02
30.   Howard Fox
probably discussed already today, but the Simers article on Kent this morning was actually a nice piece...a rarity coming from him
2005-08-10 14:59:35
31.   Marty
29. Depending on your tickets, the Stadium Club can be a fun place. Last year the beers inside were actually a buck cheaper than beers in the stands.
2005-08-10 15:00:35
32.   Bob Timmermann
The thing not to miss at Dodger Stadium is the chance to buy your LA Dodgers souvenir earplugs to keep you from severe hearing loss.
2005-08-10 15:00:45
33.   Jon Weisman
29 - Just tune out all the noise and admire the grass.
2005-08-10 15:02:18
34.   Mark
Post 10 absolutely nails it. There have been times when the comments on the site have been directed towards the pitiful starting rotation, and once the rotation picked up the hitting went down the tubes. Then the bullpen slid into mediocrity. Then Jim Tracy decided to start bunting like crazy. Now I'm not really certain about what's good about the team at all.

For me, I'm keeping a sort of mental file about "these are the guys I'd like to see come back in 2006". That list is pitifully short: Penny, Gagne, Drew, Kent, and Bradley. If every other one of the MLB-level starters were to get traded, released, or otherwise disposed of, I can't say I'd be all that sad.

Now, granted, we have a lot of great minor league talent, but I think this year has shown that a lot of them just aren't ready to enter the bigs, even in 2006. Broxton is great. Thompson shows signs of brilliance. Repko could potentially clean up his act. But these guys should be playing in Las Vegas, not in Los Angeles, in 2006.

2005-08-10 15:02:58
35.   fanerman
Speaking of the stadium, what are some recommended places to sit? I hope to go with some friends but I have no idea where I should get tickets (haven't been there in a long time and last time I went I just sat in the outfield bleachers).
2005-08-10 15:06:53
36.   Bob Timmermann
I wanted to pass this on yesterday when Tommy posted his wistful remembrance of Dodger Stadium and his bemoaning of the "improvements" to the stadium.

In Toronto last week, my friend there told me what the fan experience is like at a Toronto Maple Leafs game. The Maple Leafs have sold out every game for, well, forever. A long time let's put it. There is a long waiting list for season tickets. The Maple Leafs could market their team by simpling just putting up a sign outside their arena saying "GAME TONIGHT" and that would be enough.

Yet Maple Leafs games he told me are a constant bombardment of noise and promotions and gimmicks. Why do the people who run sports venues in North America think we need such stuff to keep us interested?

I draw a parallel to Dodger Stadium and its noise. The Dodgers would get people to show up for pretty much any reason I think. People like to go to the game.

But still: DON'T BRING A BEACH BALL TO A GAME!

(Sorry that brief rant must be included at all times.)

2005-08-10 15:11:51
37.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow, Pink Floyd references today by both Yakface (on last thread) and Midwest Blue! Way to go, guys.

Fanerman, I like to have the game in front of me, so I prefer sitting not sitting outside the bases. Even in the reserved (blue) section, the view is great.

2005-08-10 15:14:50
38.   still bevens
35

Infield reserve tickets are my favorite because theyre cheap ($17) and have a great view.

2005-08-10 15:17:15
39.   Jim Hitchcock
36 - Bob, as usual, is completely correct. The given reason for the noise pollution is always `we want to make the experience more exciting for younger fans'. As if enjoying the beauty of the setting and the action on the field were not enough.

I have about as much use for marketing people that promote this nonsense as I do for public relations folk...

2005-08-10 15:19:05
40.   Yakface
I like the new field level seats because you can yell at odalis Perez and call him Peanut. Or call david eckstein Monkey Boy. Oh yeh if anybody was at the 11 inning caardinal game and heard someone callin Perez a peanut it was me.
2005-08-10 15:20:40
41.   Jim Hitchcock
40 - I'd be yelling alot too if my view was blocked by those sitting in front of me...
2005-08-10 15:23:50
42.   Vishal
with the promotions stuff, i bet it's largely because advertisers see it as a captive audience of around 40,000 people and would like to get their product some attention. they just try to do it in an entertaining way.
2005-08-10 15:26:06
43.   Jim Hitchcock
42 - Vishal, that was a fine job of staing the obvious :)
2005-08-10 15:26:55
44.   Midwest Blue
Thanks for the advice. So far, I'll:

-- try to bring earplugs
-- won't take a beach ball
-- won't be going to the Stadium Club this time (but next)
-- will concentrate on the grass
-- will cheer on the "peanut" boy (but will you chant PLAY CHOI NOW?

Any other food, drink or experience suggestions?

2005-08-10 15:30:15
45.   still bevens
44

Dont eat the Panda Express unless you plan on living through the year.

They have a beer kiosk that seems to have the biggest selection in the park in the right field reserve.

2005-08-10 15:33:02
46.   Yakface
Ask the 3rd base umpire why he has such short legs
2005-08-10 15:34:32
47.   fanerman
Thanks for the advice, guys.
2005-08-10 15:35:10
48.   Jim Hitchcock
The Bud is watered down swill, the Gordon Biersch is great (but at $8.00 a pop not the most economical way to sustain life as you know it), the soft drinks are like soft drinks everywhere, the Dodger Dogs are what other dogs aspire to be, the bottled water ($5.00) a pop tastes exactly like the bottled water you buy at 7/11...

Experience suggestions? Well, enjoy the game :)

2005-08-10 15:35:12
49.   fanerman
What's up with Cruz? Somebody mentioned a chronic injury as the reason he was let go. What's going on?
2005-08-10 15:36:27
50.   Howard Fox
44 -

make sure you bring your cell phone to vote on the best Dodger play

make sure you pay attention to which hat the ball is under

make sure you sit next to a cute girl so you can kiss her onscreen

make sure you wear your blue hair so you can be on the scoreboard

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-10 15:37:32
51.   Midwest Blue
Must break piggy bank for Gordon Biersch...check.
2005-08-10 15:38:33
52.   still bevens
Arent the non-domestic beers served in smaller cups, too?
2005-08-10 15:39:23
53.   Howard Fox
49 - maybe the Dodgers picked him up because they are closing in on the number of players on the DL record...
2005-08-10 15:39:40
54.   Yakface
And in between innings yell ISNT TRACY A GIRLS NAME.
2005-08-10 15:40:15
55.   Jim Hitchcock
Add to 50: Try to be the pick to play the Pepsi Trivia Challenge, and then blow the answer, to amuse and entertain those sitting in the same row as you.
2005-08-10 15:40:55
56.   Howard Fox
55 - that will go over well with Coca Cola
2005-08-10 15:41:34
57.   Jim Hitchcock
52 - I don't think so. Both were, I believe, 16 oz.
2005-08-10 15:41:34
58.   Midwest Blue
One last thing: What's the secret for parking at DS? What entrance? How do I avoid getting stuck for an hour after the game?
2005-08-10 15:42:29
59.   Howard Fox
58 - Harbor Fwy exit...
2005-08-10 15:43:08
60.   Jim Hitchcock
58 - If you're seeking to escape onto the Harbor Frwy., probably lot 36.
2005-08-10 15:44:38
61.   Howard Fox
or near Lot 22-easy in and out
2005-08-10 15:45:28
62.   Jim Hitchcock
Howard, I initially was going to refer to Coca-Cola, but I talked myself out of it. Always go with the first guess... :)
2005-08-10 15:46:35
63.   Howard Fox
no problem, I don't drink either, but I don't want to deprive "A" of his moment either
2005-08-10 15:47:11
64.   molokai
17
I'll be heading out to Arizona this fall for the annual roto conference that HQ puts on. I need some positive reinforcement after this dismal season. Maybe we can hook up for some games. I expect Dunlap and Dewitt and maybe even Denker might get to play. I'll post over at the Sickels site in late Sept and maybe we can hook up with other prospect freakazoids.
2005-08-10 15:47:37
65.   still bevens
Or just wait until near the beginning of game time and park in the street. Easy in and out in that regard.
2005-08-10 15:48:41
66.   Howard Fox
or take the public transportation...no, wrong city...
2005-08-10 15:48:48
67.   Midwest Blue
Thanks a million for the assist. See you at the game!
2005-08-10 15:49:15
68.   Marty
I come from the Pasadena area and swear by the Academy Road exit. It's the only way to get into the stadium as far as I'm concerned. Back when I was going a lot, I used to be able to find parking where I could get out in 5 minutes. But I've seemed to have lost that skill the last few times I've been.
2005-08-10 15:49:22
69.   Howard Fox
67 - yeah, you and me and 40,000 of our closest friends
2005-08-10 15:49:35
70.   Midwest Blue
Oh, I'll be the one behind home plate with the cell phone waving at the camera.
2005-08-10 15:50:36
71.   Howard Fox
68 - Academy Road is the exit next to Stadium Way at Harbor Fwy
2005-08-10 15:51:43
72.   Howard Fox
70 - it will be easy to pick you out of that crowd - very few people bring cell phones to the game
2005-08-10 15:51:44
73.   Jim Hitchcock
70 - Well, that narrows it down...
2005-08-10 15:51:58
74.   Jon Weisman
This will be the game chat thread.
2005-08-10 15:53:39
75.   Marty
Maybe the Academy road offramp going North, but not coming from North. That dumps you right into Academy road and then a quick left into the stadium.
2005-08-10 15:53:40
76.   GoBears
At the game last night, there weren't all that many beachballs, and none on the field. But I was in Inner Reserved, right behind home plate, and there were maybe a dozen kids just next to me, all between say 8 and 12 yrs old. They spent the entire game scanning the crowd for beachballs. When they spotted one, they'd go into a frenzy of vicarious ball-bopping and screaming, until they saw an usher grab it, at which point they'd boo briefly, then start looking for another beachball somewhere else.

All of which is to say - the kids really do love the distractions. They were also singing along with all the loud music I couldn't recognize. As annoying as it was to me (and, given the smaller crowd, it's wasn't that bad last night), it's clearly why the kids showed up. I'm not sure they had any idea who was winning the game.

2005-08-10 15:55:16
77.   Howard Fox
its important that the youth learn volleyball techniques at a baseball game
2005-08-10 15:55:50
78.   Langhorne
I wonder sometimes if the loud music, giant video screens, etc. really attracts a new generation of fan or if it just trains them to expect that at a ballgame. Teams might think that they need to do these things when, in fact, a child has no expectations as to what a baseball game experience should be.

My earliest memories of a major league game are of my dad taking me to Shea Stadium. I have no memory of music. I do remember sodas covered in plastic wrap before the advance of lid technology. Mostly, I remeber the game. My dad trying to explain it's intricacies, some of which I understood, some not. But I felt like I was being let in on a secret, magical world and understanding that world was what was important to me. I am biased to my own experience but I wonder if beach balls, loud music and the like inhibit entrance into that world. I hope not. And does any place sell hot roasted peanuts sold in newspaper twisted into a cone anymore.

2005-08-10 15:58:19
79.   Howard Fox
one positive note on the McCourt kids...they are playing 60s and 70s music now instead of the hard rock shit, excuse my french
2005-08-10 16:00:22
80.   Howard Fox
but they play it as loud as I used to in my dorm room, which is probably why I have lost some of my hearing...

all they are missing at the game now is weed...

2005-08-10 16:00:25
81.   Jim Hitchcock
Not to split hairs, GoBears, but they don't show up for the distractions, but because their folks take them to the game. ANd if you were to take the beachballs and loud music away, the kids would still find something to distract themselves.
2005-08-10 16:00:57
82.   Howard Fox
which might actually make the Dodgers appear to play better, now that I think about it
2005-08-10 16:01:00
83.   natepurcell
I'll post over at the Sickels site in late Sept and maybe we can hook up with other prospect freakazoids

sounds good. it should be nice weather too. Arizona in october and november= 65-75 breezy except during monsoons.

2005-08-10 16:01:10
84.   Jim Hitchcock
...something with which...
2005-08-10 16:01:39
85.   Howard Fox
81 - like picking their noses or poking each other
2005-08-10 16:03:15
86.   Jim Hitchcock
which might actually make the Dodgers appear to play better, now that I think about it

Fan 1: Hey, man, did you see that???

Fan 2: No, dude, what'd I miss?

Fan 1: Wow, it was like totally amazing...

2005-08-10 16:03:52
87.   GoBears
81. Actually, I didn't see any parents, or even guardians. I think they must have been some sort of group (it was SUBWAY 2-for-1 ticket night), with maybe a couple chaperones for a wad of kids. But of course you're right, Jim. I should have said that the distractions were, well, utterly distracting for them. None showed any interest in the product on the field. Which is fine. As long as the beachball is interfering with my view of the game, I don't care. Just like the "wave." I don't mind at all if the seat in front of me is empty.
2005-08-10 16:05:05
88.   Howard Fox
86 - sounds like the conversations we have now every time Repko misses a line drive....

by the way, different subject, but did any one notice Robles' hit on that bounced pitch last night...shades of Clemente....actually slivers...

2005-08-10 16:05:54
89.   Howard Fox
87 - a wad of kids how appealing
2005-08-10 16:06:24
90.   JSN
Just wanted to throw this out there in regards to visiting DS. Some people don't realize you can bring your own drinks into the stadium as long as it is sealed. If you're not in the mood for overpriced beer, I always take a liter size bottle of pepsi and gigantic bag of seeds. Then all I end up buying is my dodger dog...or two... Anyways as long as the seal is unbroken on water, soda, etc., you can bring it in.
2005-08-10 16:07:04
91.   Jim Hitchcock
88 - What cracked me up was the huge grin on Tim Wallich's face.
2005-08-10 16:07:19
92.   dzzrtRatt
It's not that I mind the music they play so much as I mind losing what it has replaced. The old-fashioned doodly-doo organ music was charming and from another time. Baseball is a sport that thrives on nostalgia. When baseball is dealt with by the entertainment industry, VH-1 doesn't visit the 'cribs' of today's players. No, HBO creates features and documentaries about Maris, Mantle and the '68 Detroit Tigers. Retro is in, at least as far as baseball goes. It's never going to be the NBA or the NHL. It's a charming summer diversion that isn't all that different from what your great grandpappy used to enjoy. The Dodgers, of all teams, have the luxury of holding the line and recreating the classic baseball experience, because, for some amazing reason, they draw 3 million year in year, even though they've been a major disappointment for nearly two decades. I love AC/DC, but I don't need to hear it at Chavez Ravine. Rip it out by the roots.
2005-08-10 16:10:17
93.   Marty
91. Reminds me of going to the Coliseum for Ram games when there was no alcohol served. So, everyone it seemed had a bottle with them. By the fourth quarter you'd see bottles flying through the air. If you were lucky, you wouldn't get clanked on the head.
2005-08-10 16:10:40
94.   King of the Hobos
92 The Red Sox are made over by Queer Eye though...
2005-08-10 16:13:57
95.   Jim Hitchcock
But I felt like I was being let in on a secret, magical world and understanding that world was what was important to me.

Damn, Langhorne, that captured it perfectly. Great comment (along with DzzrtRatt's).

2005-08-10 16:15:52
96.   Eric L
80

Don't speak too soon Howard. At one of the last games I went to (the Giants series), I saw some guy smoking what I thought was a cigarette but he was holding it kind of odd. After standing in the area for a bit, it was indeed weed.

90

Not only can you bring in your own drinks (which I heartily endorse), you can also bring in food if you wish. During the Freeway series (the spring training version), a family by me had a bucket of chicken and a bunch of sides.

2005-08-10 16:18:21
97.   molokai
90
Only way I ever survived a day game is to bring about 8 water bottles. I understand buying hot dogs and such but never understood why anyone would pay 5.00 for a bottle of .50 water that they could bring themselves.
2005-08-10 16:19:56
98.   Howard Fox
96 - we bring in our own picnics every game
2005-08-10 16:20:28
99.   King of the Hobos
MiLB.com is airing the Mexico City (Robles' team) vs Tijuana game today. Too bad they aren't showing the Oaxaca game, which features old friend Angel Pena. In their last game, he led them with 2 homers in a 12-4 onslaught (the game before that Oaxaca was at the losing end of a perfect game)
2005-08-10 16:22:43
100.   King of the Hobos
Florida took a 1-0 lead on the DBacks in the first.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-10 16:25:51
101.   Bob Timmermann
And to cheer us all up ...

Random Dodger game callback

August 10, 1965

On a sweltering Tuesday night in Los Angeles (temperatures reached the high 90s in Los Angeles), the Dodgers didn't need a lot of offense, as Sandy Koufax struck out 14 batters en route to winning his 20th game of the year, as the Dodgers beat the Mets 4-3 before a crowd of over 36,000. The win kept the Dodgers one game ahead of the second place Giants with a 66-48 record.

The Dodgers scored twice in the third. With one out, Maury Wills doubled and Jim Gilliam singled him home. Mets center fielder Johnny Lewis tried to throw out Wills at the plate but threw wildly. Mets pitcher Al Jackson chased down the throw and tried to catch Gilliam at third and threw wildly there and Gilliam scored.

In the fourth, Ron Fairly singled and moved up to second on a ground out by Wes Parker. John Roseboro singled home Fairly to make it 3-0. In the sixth, Fairly singled and Parker tripled him home to make it 4-0.

The last place Mets (34-78 coming into the game) started to rally in the eighth. Banjo hitters Bobby Klaus and Roy McMillan managed back-to-back singles with one out. Charley Smith (a former Dodger) doubled to left to score Klaus and Joe Christopher hit a sacrifice fly to make it 4-2. Koufax struck out Jim Hickman (a future Dodger) to end the inning. Klaus batted leadoff for the Mets despite hitting .196 coming into the game, although he did draw his share of walks and he batted right-handed. Future Dodgers Chris Cannizaro and Ron Hunt also played for the Mets that day. The Mets were managed by Wes Westrum who had taken over for former Dodger player and manager Casey Stengel, who retired after breaking a hip in July.

In the ninth, rookie Ron Swoboda led off with a monstrous home run to left field to make it 4-3. But Koufax got the last three Mets to get win number 20. The game was over in a brisk 2:07.

To say that Koufax had a good year in 1965 would be an understatement. He went 26-8 with a 2.04 ERA and 382 strikeouts (then a record in the era of pitchers throwing from 60'6"), and, of course, a perfect game against the Cubs on September 9.

Other pitchers had some good years. Don Drysdale was 23-12 with a 2.77 ERA (He also hit 7 home runs). Claude Osteen was 15-15 with a 2.79 ERA. Jim Brewer had a 1.82 ERA out of the bullpen and Ron Perranoski had 17 saves with a 2.24 ERA.

The Dodgers hitting wasn't great, but it was adequate for the era and the cavernous dimensions of Dodger Stadium. The Dodgers batted .245 and hit just 78 home runs. Jim Lefebvre and Lou Johnson led the team with 12 home runs apiece. Maury Wills batted .286 and stole 94 bases. Johnson was called up from the minors to replace the injured Tommy Davis, who was out with a broken ankle.

At Dodger Stadium, the Dodgers batted .239 with a .309 OBP and hit just 26 home runs. On the road, the Dodgers batted .251 with a .314 OBP and hit 52 home runs. The pitchers had an ERA at Dodger Stadium of 2.31 and 3.33 on the road.

The Dodgers won the National League with a 97-65 record, two games better than the Giants. The Dodgers won 15 of their last 16 games and gave up more than two runs in only two of those games. The Dodgers threw seven shutouts in that stretch.

In the World Series, the Dodgers faced an unfamiliar foe in the Minnesota Twins. The Dodgers dropped the first two games in Minnesota, but came back to L.A. to win three straight to go ahead 3-2 in the Series.

In Game 6, Mudcat Grant homered and threw a complete game to give the Twins a 5-1 win. But in Game 7, Koufax, on just two days rest, threw a 2-0 shutout against the Twins, striking out 10. It was the fourth World Series win for the Dodgers in 11 years.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

2005-08-10 16:30:52
102.   Nuke
64

Few players without AA experience get to play in the AFL, so I wouldn't expect to see Denker, Dunlap, or Dewitt there. Last year, 6 of the 7 Dodgers that played for the Scorpions had AA experience.

2005-08-10 16:31:33
103.   Jon Weisman
Did anyone hear Vin Scully say, "I feel like Jeff Kent," as the Dodger broadcast Tuesday came back from commercial late in the game. Kent had struck out four times by this point.
2005-08-10 16:36:11
104.   GoBears
Speaking of Jeff Kent (I hope not), has anyone heard anything more about the Gammons story that 50-some-odd players are about to get suspended for failing steroids tests, including a 'bigger name than Palmeiro?' Or did I imagine that a couple days ago?
2005-08-10 16:36:25
105.   natepurcell
those with prospect question, john sickels is doing a Q and A at his website www.minorleagueball.com

any questions you have, he will answer, only open til 5pt though!

2005-08-10 16:37:26
106.   King of the Hobos
104 The MLB released a statement today that denied the Gammons report
2005-08-10 16:38:59
107.   Bob Timmermann
103
Yes, I heard that also.

Fortunately, Vin's cleaner than Mark Grace.

2005-08-10 16:42:42
108.   Jon Weisman
Mike Edwards was optioned to AAA Las Vegas to make room for the addition of Jose Cruz, Jr., according to the Dodger press notes.
2005-08-10 16:45:55
109.   GoBears
108: See? Things are getting marginally better. Cruz for Edwards is a good swap. Repko would have been better, if only to withhold him from Tracy. But I can live with Cruz for Edwards.
2005-08-10 16:46:44
110.   Yakface
Where does this sadistic hatred for Repko come from?
2005-08-10 16:46:56
111.   Bob Timmermann
How will we know the difference between Mike Edwards and Jose Cruz, Jr.?

Seriously.

This isn't reshuffling deck chairs on the "Titanic". It's more like putting in a new roll of toilet paper in the steerage bathroom on the "Titanic".

2005-08-10 16:47:47
112.   Steve
Perhaps Edwards can best be eulogized by the fact that he never really annoyed me that much.
2005-08-10 16:49:15
113.   Marty
108. So, now that Edwards is in AAA, can he be the player to be named later?
2005-08-10 16:50:14
114.   natepurcell
Perhaps Edwards can best be eulogized by the fact that he never really annoyed me that much.

very true, he wasnt very annoying. he almost always made contact and was a good PH. although he is the definition of banjo slappy.

2005-08-10 16:51:41
115.   Bob Timmermann
According to Rob Neyer's "Transaction Primer", the restriction on PTBNL is that the two players involved cannot have PLAYED in the same league in the same season.

So, that would seem to eliminate Edwards, but why would the Red Sox have wanted Mike Edwards?

2005-08-10 16:51:55
116.   Marty
Banjo Slappy would be a great name.
2005-08-10 16:52:59
117.   Marty
Bob, same reason we want Cruz? :)
2005-08-10 16:53:02
118.   King of the Hobos
Miguel Cabrera has put the fish up 3-0 over the snakes
2005-08-10 16:53:25
119.   fanerman
Repayment for the Roberts-Stanley deal.
2005-08-10 16:53:49
120.   Marty
117 continued. Which is reasons I can't fathom.
2005-08-10 16:54:27
121.   natepurcell
Miguel Cabrera has put the fish up 3-0 over the snakes

i hate being runner up to these types of things.

cabrera, ichiro, probably others i cant recall now. they should be in dodger blue!

2005-08-10 16:55:03
122.   King of the Hobos
111 Cruz has more power than Izturis. Edwards doesn't
2005-08-10 16:55:08
123.   fanerman
I'm not familiar with the Miguel-Cabrera-was-almost-a-Dodger story. How did that happen?
2005-08-10 16:57:13
124.   Steve
Restate: Jim Tracy never annoyed me by using Mike Edwards strangely.
2005-08-10 16:57:36
125.   natepurcell
I'm not familiar with the Miguel-Cabrera-was-almost-a-Dodger story. How did that happen?

we were runner up in the bidding. the sticking point was that the marlins offered to pay for his younger siblings education or something like that.

2005-08-10 16:58:44
126.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know about Cabrera, but it was unlikely that the Dodgers would have signed Ichiro based on how the posting system worked.

Ichiro had already gone to spring training with the Mariners, who are partly owned by Japanese investors.

Besides the Dodgers were already paying a lot of money to Shawn Green to play right field in 2001.

2005-08-10 17:00:25
127.   natepurcell
oh yea, arods another "should have been a dodger" player.
2005-08-10 17:03:15
128.   Bob Timmermann
127
Yes, but the Mariners got to pick first.

Hey, we got some good .... things .... from Darren Dreifort....

2005-08-10 17:04:12
129.   natepurcell
Yes, but the Mariners got to pick first.

true, but if they actually went by worse record instead of alternating leagues, we would have picked first :(

2005-08-10 17:06:29
130.   Bob Timmermann
129
By Dodger standards of that era, Dreifort was a great first round pick!
2005-08-10 17:15:49
131.   GoBears
111 How will we know the difference between Mike Edwards and Jose Cruz, Jr.?

If by that you mean that DePo has exchanged one player who JT wouldn't use for another, then you might be right. But it seems clear to me that, offensively and defensively, Jose Cruz Jr is better than Mike Edwards. Enough better to matter this year? Probably not.

110 Where does this sadistic hatred for Repko come from?

No hate at all. He just isn't very good at anything, except running fast. What's infuriating is that Tracy insists on playing him as often as possible over players who are clearly better than Repko. Not Repko's fault by any means.

2005-08-10 17:21:33
132.   Yakface
Who would you have playing right field? Ledee is hurt Ap cant hack it , bring back Cody Ross? Honestly who is Repko playing over? Choi? Saenz? Brazoban?
2005-08-10 17:25:08
133.   natepurcell
brazoban can. he was a OF when he started his professional career.
2005-08-10 17:27:08
134.   Eric L
After watching a bit of the Braves game tonight, I've decided that I am going to blame the current Dodger woes on the Kevin Malone era.
2005-08-10 17:32:22
135.   GoBears
132 Who would you have playing right field?

Before he was hurt, Ledee, which didn't happen often enough. Now, Jose Cruz. Even Edwards was better than Repko.

Repko's fun to watch. Maybe he puts butts in the seats by getting his uniform dirty unhelpfully. But he's not (yet, anyway) a major leaguer.

Actually, I'm guessing that DePo got Cruz precisely to get Repko benched. First Werth, then Ledee got hurt (in the most recent wave), so Tracy kept turning to Scrappy. So DePo said, fine - here's a real OFer. Play him instead.

2005-08-10 17:33:21
136.   natepurcell
what can depo do to get phillips benched?
2005-08-10 17:34:46
137.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Phillips cannot be stopped. He is an inescapable force of nature.

But he's no Loren Murchison on the basepaths.

2005-08-10 17:35:32
138.   Yakface
OK so now we have valentin in left with bradley in center and cruz in right with Repko benched, jeesh the kid makes 3 mistakes and and you bite his head off, thats a little harsh.
2005-08-10 17:37:40
139.   King of the Hobos
Listening to the DBacks game, the Marlins announcer called Glaus a professional hitter. I guess Tracy isn't the only one
2005-08-10 17:37:53
140.   SMY
It's not so much the mistakes as the amazing .676 OPS taking up space in the OF.
2005-08-10 17:37:58
141.   ddger
136 FJT
2005-08-10 17:38:48
142.   ddger
Is Tracy starting Phillips tonight at 1st?
2005-08-10 17:40:29
143.   Jacob L
136, 137, seriously. I was at the game a couple of weeks ago when Phillips singled off the wall in straight away center. The un-scrappiest play of all time. Tracy must have been in the bathroom.
2005-08-10 17:41:08
144.   GoBears
138 the kid makes 3 mistakes and and you bite his head off, thats a little harsh

Hardly. The problem with those 3 mistakes was that they put the lie to his one claim to a starting job. Everyone knows he can't hit, but the story was that he was outstanding defensively. Unless the team is full of hitters, I think that's a lousy sole qualification for a corner outfielder, but at least it was a point in his favor. But now we know that he really isn't good defensively either. He's fast and fearless, but not very smart. The one he blew in RF on Sunday was funny. He ran full speed into the wall on a ball that bouced off the wall about 20 feet out of reach. By "giving it his all," he ended up misplaying it, and gave up at least one extra base (I don't remember exactly).

So Tracy had a bad reason for starting JR, but at least a reason -- good defense. But now we know that that isn't true either. He's not without value, but he shouldn't be sucking up 4 ABs/game.

2005-08-10 17:45:04
145.   Yakface
I know man Izturis is supposodly good with the glove too but he has 7 errors that guy is washed up. Go eat some oatmeal oldman. Or yell at your grand kids.
2005-08-10 17:47:05
146.   King of the Hobos
142 The line up's not out, but all signs point to 'yes." Hopefully there's a setback. Or he can hurt himself playing basketball, riding his motorcycle, carrying deer meat up stairs, tripping over a suitcase, etc
2005-08-10 17:47:31
147.   Yakface
The thing that makes a great catch great is that 9 times out of ten the catch isnt made and its just plain stubborn to fault someone for not making a great catch. I know he misplayed that one ball saturday night when he came in too fast to the left of the ball but he was playing left field when he's been playing right.
2005-08-10 17:49:26
148.   ddger
Repko has 6 errors not counting the ones that he has recently misplayed. That seems a lot for part time outfielder known for his defense.
2005-08-10 17:49:35
149.   underdog
I agree Repko shouldn't be starting and has made some mistakes recently, but still think he's a good bench sparkplug, giving an otherwise mostly overly mellow team some energy. He's made some dumb mistakes, he's also saved the team quite a few times with diving catches and so on. But I do think Cruz is an upgrade over both Repko and Edwards (whatever that's saying) both offensive and defensively, and at this point Valentin, too, unless Valentin starts hitting (already!)

Giants down 3-0 to Braves in 6th...

2005-08-10 17:50:55
150.   ddger
Recently, it seems that every ball hit to Repko has become an adventure. He could make a great play or blow a easy one.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-10 17:52:28
151.   ddger
Repko plays hard if not smart all the time. Does he qualify as baseball savvy?
2005-08-10 17:53:04
152.   King of the Hobos
Follow up to 139:

Conine just had a very professional and veteran at bat. In other words he's an old guy whose profession was hitting in that at bat. Baseball seriously needs some new adjectives

2005-08-10 17:55:44
153.   ddger
Don't they call professional hitters, DH in the other leagues?
2005-08-10 17:57:04
154.   ddger
Situational hitters can also be called utility players.
2005-08-10 17:59:16
155.   ddger
LOOGY is just a fancy term for situational pitcher.
2005-08-10 18:00:16
156.   Steve
All professional hitters appear to have low OBPs in relation to BA. Garrett Anderson, professional hitter, etc.
2005-08-10 18:02:23
157.   King of the Hobos
156 Their profession is to hit, not walk
2005-08-10 18:04:38
158.   Steve
JD Drew, professional walker
2005-08-10 18:04:54
159.   GoBears
Actually, Izturis IS worse defensively than (1) his reputation, and (2) he was last year. But at least at SS, he's playing a premium defensive position well (if not in the god-like fashion often attributed to him). But corner outfielders need to be much better hitters to justify their lineup spot.

Given how bad a hitter Izturis is (his fluky April/May included), with zero power and zero patience (unless last night represented some sort of new leaf), he's not worth much money, and I'd trade him in a heartbeat to someone who overrates him.

2005-08-10 18:06:40
160.   dzzrtRatt
136 Phillips becomes irate if Tracy doesn't start him. He's got a very healthy ego if he thinks a lineup with him in it is better than a lineup with Choi, Saenz and/or Perez, at least two of whom have to sit if he plays.

I'm beginning to miss Kaz Ishii, who at least had no delusions of adequacy.

2005-08-10 18:06:41
161.   natepurcell
from a BA espn.com chat:

James (Long Beach, CA): Does Jacksonville have the best assembly of talented minor league players that you have ever seen right now? Their teams is packed with talent, Guzman, LaRoche, Loney, Greg Miller, Edwin Jackson, Billingsley, Orenduff, Russ Martin. What minor league team would even come close to comparing?

John Manuel: (4:59 PM ET ) Yes. That's the cover feature for our next issue, as a matter of fact, and I've got about 2,500 words left to write on that. It's an amazing amalgamation of talent that is more balanced, deeper, more varied than any prospect-laden farm team I've seen in my 9 years at BA. So with that said, look for that feature next week on BaseballAmerica.com, let me get back to writing it and thanks for all the great questions. I'm out.

2005-08-10 18:09:52
162.   Steelyeri
Lineup's out...

Izzy
Robles
Bradley
Kent
Phillips
Cruz Jr.
Valentin
Navarro
Lowe

2005-08-10 18:10:36
163.   King of the Hobos
Looks like Repko has been the line up casualty
2005-08-10 18:12:06
164.   Steelyeri
For the Phils...

Rollins
Lofton
Utley
Abreu
Burrel
Howard
Bell
Lieberthal
Myers

2005-08-10 18:13:48
165.   SMY
It'd be nice if they just traded Izturis and played Robles instead. They're pretty much the exact same player, except Robles is better at getting on base. That Tracy insists on playing them both at the same time is a travesty.
2005-08-10 18:14:22
166.   Sam DC
112 LOLOL.
2005-08-10 18:15:19
167.   dzzrtRatt
Batting fifth! Jason Phillips is batting fifth!

Except for Kent & Bradley, ours is a lineup worthy of the Kansas City Royals. If we beat the power-laded Phillies tonight, there should be a parade.

2005-08-10 18:15:59
168.   GoBears
165. Yup. So we upgrade a smidge from Repko to Cruz jr, and more than give up that gain by playing Phillips over Choi or Saenz. And the lesser of Izzy/Oscar over Perez.

Feh.

Here's hoping that Phillips shows us all up and contributes offensively.

2005-08-10 18:16:10
169.   ddger
I'd rather see Repko than Valentin.
2005-08-10 18:17:02
170.   overkill94
Good lord, Tracy needs to be fired immediately if he continues to play Phillips like he does (among other things).
2005-08-10 18:17:11
171.   GoBears
Once again, our bench is pretty good. Unfortunately, they'll only play if Lowe stinks.
2005-08-10 18:18:19
172.   Bob Timmermann
I can't wait for the Dodgers and Giants to play each other again so we can see who is better: Randy Winn or Jose Cruz, Jr. It will be quite the showdown.
2005-08-10 18:18:39
173.   Sam DC
Double Grabowski Alert -- In his two at bats so far v. Astros' Ace Wandy Rodriguez, Crazy Livan Hernandez has a run scoring double and a game tying home run.
2005-08-10 18:18:56
174.   GoBears
169. Not me. Valentin still walks a ton, and he's been terrific out there in LF. Maybe (given the injuries elsewhere), Repko against southpaws.
2005-08-10 18:19:40
175.   GoBears
Wait - Is Myers a LHP? Valentin does switch, but is much worse right-handed.
2005-08-10 18:22:10
176.   overkill94
No, myers is a righty
2005-08-10 18:23:34
177.   Steve
174 -- He was not terrific in LF last night.
2005-08-10 18:32:28
178.   Bob Timmermann
Old Guillermo Mota facing Professional Hitter Troy Glaus with the bases loaded in the 7th.

Glaus cleared the bases with a double to make it 6-4 Marlins.

2005-08-10 18:33:36
179.   Bob Timmermann
Glaus's double went about 432 feet. It hit against the 434 sign at Dolphins stadium.

Now Old Friend Shawn Green is batting.

2005-08-10 18:33:57
180.   GoBears
I saw the one late in the game that he didn't get to. Looked to me like he lost it, because he got a good jump, and then slowed up before he got there. But he made another excellent play when (I think it was Burrell) lined one hard into the LCF gap, and Valentin cut it off before it got to the wall, holding him to a single. I thought for sure that ball was getting through.

And he hasn't made a single dumb play, that cost the team an extra base or run.

2005-08-10 18:35:02
181.   Bob Timmermann
Old Friend Shawn Green hit a sacrifice fly to make it 6-5.
2005-08-10 18:36:21
182.   Bob Timmermann
Giants tie the Braves in the 9th 4-4.
2005-08-10 18:40:21
183.   Bob Timmermann
Good News! Jose Offerman is starting at first base tonight AGAIN for the Mets.

Brian Giles home run last night for the Padres was his first since July 22. Giles hit just one home run in all of July.

The Braves bullpen is not very good.

2005-08-10 18:49:14
184.   jpeace
Whenever i see Jason Phillips at first base i feel like i want the Dodgers to lose. I must be a bigger fan of reason than of the Dodgers.
2005-08-10 18:51:43
185.   Sam DC
Livan is now three for three and a triple away from the cycle. He just chased Wandy in the sixth.
2005-08-10 18:52:53
186.   dzzrtRatt
The ball would have to be swallowed by a racoon for Livan to get a triple.
2005-08-10 18:53:02
187.   Bob Timmermann
Extra innings in Atlanta. But Dan Kolb is pitching now.

He got the first out! Wow!

2005-08-10 18:53:55
188.   King of the Hobos
185 And he's only made 96 pitches in 5 IP. Knowing Livan, he'll pitch a CG, 200 pitches if he has to
2005-08-10 18:57:16
189.   Steve
Shawn Green, Professional Olney-Smacker
2005-08-10 18:58:30
190.   Bob Timmermann
Luis Terrero of the DBacks got called out at third on the hidden ball trick.
2005-08-10 19:01:14
191.   Rob M
173

That isn't a real Grabowski with Livan hitting.

2005-08-10 19:08:46
192.   Jim Hitchcock
The Friday 13th Factor of the Grabowski Pronciple: If your name is Jason, you will be back.
2005-08-10 19:10:13
193.   Sam DC
190 !!
2005-08-10 19:11:56
194.   Bob Timmermann
The Marlins announcers said they'd never seen a third baseman pull off the hidden ball trick. So I checked Bill Deane's list of hidden ball tricks in the majors.

The last one prior to tonight was done by ....

Mike Lowell.

2005-08-10 19:14:25
195.   King of the Hobos
Good start for the Dodger game, Abreu hit a 2 run homer, Dodgers down early
2005-08-10 19:14:42
196.   Bob Timmermann
Well that didn't take long....

So the Mets jumping out to a 1-0 lead isn't cheering anyone up?

2005-08-10 19:15:22
197.   Jim Hitchcock
This just in: Entire Phillies team to be suspended for steroid use.
2005-08-10 19:16:00
198.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 Mets as Beltran steals home on a double steal.
2005-08-10 19:17:04
199.   Jim Hitchcock
194 - Bob, at the risk of asking Houdini to give up his secrets, how in the world did you know that?
2005-08-10 19:17:10
200.   Bob Timmermann
This just in: Any batter who has faced either Derek Lowe or Eric Milton this year has been suspended for steroid use.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-10 19:17:17
201.   King of the Hobos
Beltran stole home for a 2-0 lead over there. At least we're in the exact same situation as the Pads
2005-08-10 19:18:30
202.   King of the Hobos
200 At least Milton had a hostory of giving them up. Lowe's already past his career high for most given up
2005-08-10 19:19:12
203.   Bob Timmermann
199
Sorry, I meant to put the link in.

http://www.retrosheet.org/hidden.htm

2005-08-10 19:21:08
204.   Sam DC
So I gather at this point Beltran has passed Derek Lowe and Jason Grabowski in steals?
2005-08-10 19:21:38
205.   Jim Hitchcock
I'm glad they showed that clip of Tim Wallach cracking up at Roble's swat again, if for no other reason that could spell Wallach's name correctly this time.
2005-08-10 19:23:08
206.   King of the Hobos
WE'RE LEADING!!!!
2005-08-10 19:23:24
207.   Bob Timmermann
I hope Vin feels like Jeff Kent now.
2005-08-10 19:23:43
208.   King of the Hobos
Just before Kent did that, Alex Gonzalez doubled with the bases loaded against Worrell to break that game open 10-5
2005-08-10 19:24:42
209.   Bob Timmermann
Kent did kill the rally.
2005-08-10 19:24:43
210.   King of the Hobos
Phillips is back in form--swinging at high inside pitches
2005-08-10 19:25:43
211.   Jim Hitchcock
203 - Thanks, Bob!

Jeff Kent is making me reconsider my desire for no more presidents from Texas.

Hope Vinny feels like Jeff Kent tonight.

2005-08-10 19:26:42
212.   King of the Hobos
Worrell is pitching brilliantly for the DBacks, he just gave up a single to Todd Jones
2005-08-10 19:28:27
213.   Bob Timmermann
Noah Lowry is pinch hitting for the Giants in extra innings. Moises Alou is still on the roster, but he's unavailable.
2005-08-10 19:29:12
214.   Jim Hitchcock
207,211 - Not only is Bob a baseball savant, he can manage two posts to my one.
2005-08-10 19:29:13
215.   King of the Hobos
There are 2 hits in this game and 5 runs.
2005-08-10 19:31:07
216.   Bob Timmermann
"You talk about celery stalks at midnight," Vin Scully.

OK, what the hell does that mean?

2005-08-10 19:32:12
217.   gcrl
bob, you are too quick to the punch.

i was also wondering "who" talks about celery sticks at midnight.

2005-08-10 19:35:13
218.   Jim Hitchcock
216 - It's a book currently on my must read list.

True explanation: Thank goodness for Google.

2005-08-10 19:35:49
219.   Bob Timmermann
I think Vin though is referring to the song by Les Brown and His Band of Renown.
2005-08-10 19:36:13
220.   Jim Hitchcock
All things Steve, a squeeze was really in order there.
2005-08-10 19:36:46
221.   student of the game
216 Toward the bottom of the page:

http://www.swingtime.co.uk/Reviews/gigs/jaycraig.html

2005-08-10 19:37:17
222.   dzzrtRatt
All I can figure out is "Celery Stalks at Midnight" is the name of a Doris Day song. It is also the name given to a science experiment you do with kids in which you use celery stalks and food dye to demonstrate capillary action. It doesn't appear to be necessary to conduct this experiment at midnight, however.

Maybe this is some weird 1950s double-entendre. "Do the celery stalks at midnight?" "Oh you naughty girl!"

2005-08-10 19:39:30
223.   Jim Hitchcock
219 - You're absolutely right. Vin's way too cool to be thinking Doris Day...
2005-08-10 19:39:42
224.   King of the Hobos
Atlanta won
2005-08-10 19:42:35
225.   Uncle Miltie
Rollins should steal 2nd and 3rd.
2005-08-10 19:44:12
226.   Jim Hitchcock
DzzrtRatt gets the prize for best reference.
2005-08-10 19:44:20
227.   King of the Hobos
Lofton looked a little late, but they haven't shown a good angle
2005-08-10 19:45:24
228.   Jim Hitchcock
Uncle Miltie, don't you have some tape deck heads to clean?
2005-08-10 19:46:31
229.   Bob Timmermann
Celery stalks at midnight
Lurking in the moonlight
What's this funny nightmare
All about

Celery stalks at midnight
Mounted on their broomsticks
Gliding through the treetops
In and out

It's like a bad dream
A crazy kind of mad dream
Must have been something that I ate
No doubt.

Celery stalks at midnight
Lurking in the moonlight
What's this very funny nightmare
All about

Lyrics and Music by Carl Sigman, Will Bradley, and George Harris

2005-08-10 19:49:57
230.   Im So Blue
Celery Stalks at Midnight is a kids' book by James Howe (Bunnicula, Pinky & Rex, etc.). As a granddad, Vin has probably read it to the kids.
2005-08-10 19:50:28
231.   Bob Timmermann
And "Celery Stalks at Midnight" was a big hit in 1940 apparently.

And they say they don't write songs like they used to?

2005-08-10 19:51:43
232.   Jim Hitchcock
29 - That's a pretty cool song. Kind of predates the drug influenced ditties of the Yellow Submarine era.
2005-08-10 19:53:38
233.   King of the Hobos
Let's see if Mr. Professional RISP Hitter can come up big
2005-08-10 19:54:01
234.   Jim Hitchcock
There is no announcer other than Vinny who could provoke these tangents.
2005-08-10 19:54:10
235.   Benaiah
Man the Phillies hand the the free passes like crazy. Even if we get swept, all the BB will drive up our slumping OBP.
2005-08-10 19:54:56
236.   Jim Hitchcock
Jose Offerman. Profeesional hero.
2005-08-10 19:55:40
237.   King of the Hobos
That strike out was clutch. Good thing he's in the line up
2005-08-10 19:56:05
238.   gcrl
that pitch didn't "run away" from phillips' bat. it was never close enough to have to run away.
2005-08-10 19:56:20
239.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, gee, Jason; that was only a foot and a half outside...
2005-08-10 19:57:19
240.   Benaiah
Phillips broke Myers of his BB habit. The problem with Bradley and Kent getting walked is that I have no confidence in Phillips, Cruz and Valentin to not all strike out (fortunately Robles preemptively struck out to save Valentin).
2005-08-10 19:57:35
241.   King of the Hobos
Cruz's Dodger debut hasn't been particularly great. If he could just make some contact
2005-08-10 19:57:35
242.   Uncle Miltie
Phillips: I am not a major league hitter, I am a bench player (X 25)
2005-08-10 19:59:07
243.   gcrl
myers' strategy seems to be walk the hitters and strike out the brain dead guys who swing at slop nightly.
2005-08-10 20:01:09
244.   gcrl
aflac:

bonds
bells
boones
schofields?

2005-08-10 20:01:33
245.   Bob Timmermann
243

You don't want to put in a geographic modifier in front of "brain dead" there?

2005-08-10 20:01:39
246.   King of the Hobos
Phillips makes the dramatic dive to stop Howard's single. It was closer to him than the ball that he struck out on
2005-08-10 20:02:36
247.   Bob Timmermann
244
Alous are one pair as are the Bonds.
2005-08-10 20:03:34
248.   gcrl
245
no; nor will i refer to cream of wheat, lest the wrath of jim tracy fall upon me and those i hold dear.
2005-08-10 20:04:32
249.   dzzrtRatt
234 Dennis Miller must be gnashing his teeth right now. "If it works for Scully, why didn't it work for me?"
2005-08-10 20:04:54
250.   Vishal
griffeys?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-08-10 20:07:34
251.   King of the Hobos
That Robles throw was nice. From his knees, accurate, and pretty good speed. Maybe we can convert him to catcher
2005-08-10 20:08:32
252.   Uncle Miltie
anyone have tivo? that ball hit by Lieberthal looked foul
2005-08-10 20:08:33
253.   Vishal
alou, bonds, and griffey makes three. i can't think what the fourth could be.
2005-08-10 20:10:39
254.   Steve
Should have AAAed Phillips. Another DePodesta mistake. They're adding up.
2005-08-10 20:11:09
255.   Purple Hippopotamus
The Dodgers really need to get a quality catcher. I know it may be too much for Depo to get someone who can throw out runners and hit, but I'd settle for a solid defensive catcher who'll make baserunners second-guess themselves at least 50 percent of the time. What I'm really trying to say is: trade Phillips, keep Navarro, and play Choi at first.

Anyone else's gameday audio fading in and out?

2005-08-10 20:12:06
256.   gcrl
2 out of 4 isn't bad. can't believe i forgot about the griffeys and alous. i guessed schofield without reading the requirement that both father and son had to have hit 150, not combined.
2005-08-10 20:12:21
257.   Kayaker7
253 Are we talking about father-son MLB combos?
2005-08-10 20:12:47
258.   oldbear
JP over Choi/Saenz.
THe lesser of Izturis/Robles over AP.
Valentin over Ledee.
JP and Navarro playing in the same game.
Izturis leading off.

Ehh... I could get into the acceptance mode if our best team was out on the field, and even it still lost. But until that happens, I cant quit yet.

2005-08-10 20:12:56
259.   Jim Hitchcock
Isn't that the wonder of baseball over football? In football, for the most part the great teams roll over the dismal teams week after week. In baseball, you have...pitchers.
2005-08-10 20:14:59
260.   Steve
Re: Trivia Question

What about Jason Phillips and Satan?

2005-08-10 20:15:32
261.   Bob Timmermann
259
The wonder of baseball over football is the absence of halftime.

Halftime shows are the scourge of mankind.

Halftime shows and malaria are the two biggest threats to mankind to be precise.

2005-08-10 20:15:58
262.   gcrl
bonus jp crotch shot.

gotta love the mole cam

2005-08-10 20:16:47
263.   King of the Hobos
Am I the only one who doesn't like viewing the butt of various 1Bs with the Diamond Cam?
2005-08-10 20:16:53
264.   Vishal
that view of jason phillips' posterior is seriously the last thing i needed to see.
2005-08-10 20:18:52
265.   Vishal
257 the AFLAC trivia question was asking which other four father-son combos (in addition to jose cruz and jose cruz jr.) have there been where each has hit at least 150 home runs.
2005-08-10 20:19:19
266.   Steve
that view of jason phillips' posterior is seriously the last thing i needed to see.

Did it show Jim Tracy attached?

2005-08-10 20:20:45
267.   King of the Hobos
A good sinker would have been nice there
2005-08-10 20:21:25
268.   Uncle Miltie
Walk Howard! My prediction for Lowe before the game was 5 Runs 2 HR
2005-08-10 20:22:20
269.   Steve
Memo to Jason Phillips:

I apologize for calling you the Spawn of Satan. Clearly, you are just his unwitting stooge. However, I'm sure Derek Lowe has horns. There is a reward for turning him in.

2005-08-10 20:22:53
270.   Vishal
i'm officially sick of derek lowe.
2005-08-10 20:22:57
271.   dzzrtRatt
Angels 2, Oakland 1. Fans of these two teams are in deep denial.
2005-08-10 20:24:08
272.   Kayaker7
265 Oh, I am not watching the game live. It is too painful. Just following on Yahoo! sports.
2005-08-10 20:24:26
273.   Bob Timmermann
270

Then stop stalking Carolyn Hughes! It's so creepy!

2005-08-10 20:24:34
274.   Jim Hitchcock
Re; preceeding comments: It's a good thing to laugh after the ship hits the iceberg.
2005-08-10 20:24:42
275.   Steve
270 -- And they are more of the fake "unearned" variety, where Lowe, Tracy and various news touts get to pull out yet more twaddle about the "defense."
2005-08-10 20:24:45
276.   Vishal
266.Did it show Jim Tracy attached?

nah, not quite. but he was gazing adoringly at it from the dugout, i'm sure.

2005-08-10 20:25:28
277.   Uncle Miltie
Derek Lowe is "The S*" and not in a good way.
2005-08-10 20:25:37
278.   Bob Timmermann
272
The answers were
Barry and Bobby Bonds
Moises and Felipe Alou
Jose Cruz Sr and Jose Cruz Jr
Ken Griffey Sr and Ken Griffey Jr
Gus and Buddy Bell
2005-08-10 20:26:48
279.   Steve
Oh grand
2005-08-10 20:28:22
280.   oldbear
How many outs can Izzy make at the leadoff spot>

I'd be willing to bet his OBP is below .300 by the end of the year.

And he'll have had the most at bats on our team...

2005-08-10 20:29:24
281.   Uncle Miltie
MILTIE!
2005-08-10 20:29:45
282.   Steve
That's scrappy.
2005-08-10 20:29:47
283.   King of the Hobos
At least the Dodgers aren't afraid of coming back when they're down like usual
2005-08-10 20:30:02
284.   Jim Hitchcock
Milton Bradley Marching and Chowder Society is now in order.
2005-08-10 20:30:17
285.   oldbear
So thats why Brett Myers was pitching around Bradley his 1st 2 times up...
2005-08-10 20:30:29
286.   Kayaker7
278 I wonder what the answer would have been if the question was at least 700 homeruns. ;-)
2005-08-10 20:30:31
287.   Bob Timmermann
280
The top four Dodgers in ABs are Izturis, Kent, Phillips and Choi.
2005-08-10 20:31:36
288.   Dodgers Fan in NorCal
That was gone as soon as Bradley stepped to the plate.
2005-08-10 20:32:00
289.   King of the Hobos
Since his 4 Ks, Kent has gotten on base by walk or homer 4 straight times
2005-08-10 20:32:30
290.   dzzrtRatt
How soon before Phillips comes up again?! Let the juggernaut continue!
2005-08-10 20:32:48
291.   Jim Hitchcock
Mets 8-0 over the Padres. Offerman has successfully pulled the hidden ball trick 18 times tonight...
2005-08-10 20:32:53
292.   oldbear
Thank goodness we got Mr. Clutch Jason Phillips coming up.
2005-08-10 20:32:58
293.   Steve
Yank Myers before Jason Phillips gets to him and we have to suffer through another two months of this. We probably have to anyway, but why encourage it?
2005-08-10 20:35:09
294.   King of the Hobos
At least it wasn't a weak grounder to Rollins...
2005-08-10 20:36:18
295.   oldbear
Ooops.. I guess since there wasnt a man on 2nd base, this at by JP didnt count.

JP doing his best to not get walked.

2005-08-10 20:37:08
296.   Benaiah
[284) Just makes me dream about the days with JD Drew in lineup too. The projected lineup at the beginning of the year:
Izturis
Choi/Saenz
Drew
Kent
Bradley
Ledee/Werth
Valentin/Perez
Phillips/Bako

is downright dreamy compared nights like tonight where there are 7 pitchers batting it seems.

2005-08-10 20:37:49
297.   Jim Hitchcock
Cruz has just realized he was playing for the Dodgers, and adjusted accordingly.
2005-08-10 20:38:09
298.   oldbear
Not the best of starts for Jose Cruz Jr.
2005-08-10 20:38:27
299.   Vishal
new acquisition jose cruz jr. is now 3 for 3 in the strikeout department.
2005-08-10 20:38:42
300.   King of the Hobos
Cruz Jr isn't helping, I was really hoping he could do something better than Kent did last night.

The Dodgers need to call up Jose Flores, put him in right, and switch Cruz to center. Then we'll be the only team in history with an all Jason OF AND an all Jose OF

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-08-10 20:40:49
301.   Steve
Choi goes 0-3 and leaves runners on first and second:

"Hee Seop Choi has been maddeningly inconsistent all season, and fails to deliver in the clutch. His coaches believe he lacks the baseball savvy to succeed at the major league level."

Phillips goes 0-3 and leaves runners on first and second

"The Dodgers received an intangible boost today from Jason Phillips, who heroically returned last night from the same hand injury that has kept J.D. Drew out for several weeks. Phillips hit the ball hard several times, but more than whatever might have resulted from his at-bats, he set the bar higher with his inspired and often extraordinary play on the field. Jim Tracy declared "You can see the difference when old Jason is out there in the lineup behind Jeffrey. They have to come in to pitch to Kent, and that means good results for me...I mean...us."

And Jeff Kent and Milton Bradley homered at some point."

2005-08-10 20:41:52
302.   Bob Timmermann
I remember reading about Jorge Lebron in one of my issues of Boys Life!
2005-08-10 20:44:06
303.   Bob Timmermann
Since this is 2005 and not 2004, Lofton will get a single anyway.
2005-08-10 20:44:21
304.   Kayaker7
301 Fire Jim Tracy!! ;-)
2005-08-10 20:47:01
305.   Kayaker7
Is it possible, now that JT has publicly stated that Phillips starts over Choi because of his BA with RISP, that it has gone to his head? According to Yahoo! sports, JP flied out to "deep right." JP hitting deep to the opposite field? He must be up there, "Yeah baby. I'm the RBI man."

I'm just trying to come up with excuses for JP. ;-)

2005-08-10 20:49:44
306.   Steve
Yeah, that's right. Save Repko for extra innings.
2005-08-10 20:51:05
307.   Bob Timmermann
306

You can use Repko as a pinch runner. And Choi would be more likely to hit a home run. And Ledee is probably marked for "emergency use only".

2005-08-10 20:53:36
308.   King of the Hobos
Lowe was unable to pass Weaver as our best strike out pitcher. Gagne could beat both of them easily...
2005-08-10 20:54:49
309.   overkill94
Considering how crappy our bullpen is, why did Tracy pinch-hit for Lowe with 2 outs and no one on when he has only thrown 87 pitches? Is it a blister thing?

Looking at it now, the 3-4-5 hitters have rocked Lowe pretty hard tonight, maybe it's for the best after all...

2005-08-10 20:55:49
310.   Kayaker7
That Choi is so unclutch. Grounded out when the game was "close and late."
2005-08-10 20:55:51
311.   Steve
Though Lowe was able to tie Weaver in the all important Tater department.
2005-08-10 20:56:05
312.   King of the Hobos
What will it take for a perfect IP from the bullpen? I want to see it, just once, at some point this year and then I'll be happy
2005-08-10 20:56:53
313.   Bob Timmermann
309
There was the matter of the big home run that Abreu hit.

And the big double he gave up.

And the fact that Lowe isn't all that good.

2005-08-10 20:59:41
314.   King of the Hobos
Sanchez better not walk the bases loaded before giving up the inevitable homer. There's already 2 on, so let's keep this as a save situation
2005-08-10 21:00:00
315.   Steve
He's got them right where he wants them.
2005-08-10 21:00:18
316.   ddger
Does this qualify as QS for Lowe?

Lowe must lead the league in unearned runs and also in QS where he gives up more than 3 runs.

2005-08-10 21:05:09
317.   Bob Timmermann
312
Sanchez got all 3 batters he faced on August 2 in Washington, but he came in with a runner on.

If you want a pitcher who started an inning and went 1-2-3, it would also be Sanchez, back on July 29 against St. Louis.

2005-08-10 21:06:31
318.   Vishal
300. that was hilarious
2005-08-10 21:07:05
319.   Bob Timmermann
316

Lowe should get credit for a QS. I doubt there are many times when a pitcher squeaks by as much as Lowe did tonight.

2005-08-10 21:07:38
320.   Steve
Let us all kneel and say a word of thanks that the Phillies continue to employ David Bell.
2005-08-10 21:09:20
321.   Steve
July 7th was another pretend QS
2005-08-10 21:09:26
322.   Xeifrank
Just fired up the computer for the first time this evening. Heard and read some things I'd like to comment on. First off in the LA Times there was some kind of quote from Jason Phillips about him not being in the starting lineup last night and he couldn't figure out why he wasn't at 1B. Sounds like JP is a chip off the old Tracy block to me. Second, Joe McDonald or however you spell his last name was on 710AM sports radio this afternoon and he was his usual dumb self. He was bashing the Dodgers and DePodesta who he so cleverly calls "Stupidesta". Joe was bragging about how he had predicted that Drew would miss more than 40 games on the DL this season and about what a terrible signing he was. He then went on to say, it's not like he was playing well before the injury and that he was one of the worst hitters on the team only taking into account stats from when he did play. Said he had a terrible on base percentage. I guess he didn't notice that Drew has the highest OPS on the team and just about everything he said was the complete opposite from the truth. I can forgive some of the LA Times hacks like Simers and Plaschke because to me their whole bit is that of a clown, but this Joe McDonald sounds dead serious and even tries to analyze with 100% false stats his reasoning.
vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:09:54
323.   ddger
How is our record going into 7th tied?
2005-08-10 21:10:28
324.   Xeifrank
WEC is 56.8% with 1 out nobody on and score tied in the bottom of the 7th.
vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:10:33
325.   Steve
Hey, Cesar, make sure you really kill that 2-0 pitch from the guy who's walked five and thrown 100 pitches. Thanks.
2005-08-10 21:10:48
326.   King of the Hobos
From today's notes:

"Tracy wants to get Ricky Ledee's bat in the lineup"

That better be true. I'm already amazed Repko isn't playing today.

2005-08-10 21:15:09
327.   King of the Hobos
Yet another non-perfect inning. They can't even make it suspenseful, they give up hits and walks to the leadoff hitters
2005-08-10 21:16:14
328.   Jim Hitchcock
322 - Did Joe McDonald mention the fact that Drew was the most likely player in the league to miss games due to injury suffered during meteor srikes?
2005-08-10 21:16:22
329.   Xeifrank
Why'd they bunt him to 3rd, when a stolen base is pretty much a sure thing? vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:17:04
330.   Bob Timmermann
Oakland has gone ahead of the Angels 3-2.
2005-08-10 21:18:15
331.   Vishal
i don't know why i watch these games anymore. who cares if we win or lose anymore? i don't like very many of the players in the lineup (just bradley, kent... and robles has a kind of strange charm, i'll admit), the other ones i DO like are injured or benched (gagne, drew, choi). the starters, aside from an occasional gem from penny or weaver, suck. the bullpen sucks, so even when we do get a good start, it doesn't matter. tracy is an idiot, and his moves are incredibly frustrating. and we're not going to the playoffs, so the whole rest of the season is pretty much an exercise in futility anyway. we didn't get dunn. our minor leaguers aren't ready. seriously, why am i wasting my time paying attention this grotesque carnival troop they're pretending is a major league baseball team? i think it's more out of habit and the quality of this website than anything else.

anyway, i'm leaving tomorrow for about a week or so to drive across the country. i could use the time away from the dodgers, i think. at least the A's are ahead of the angels at the moment. [knock on wood]

it's like i just had this realization about the dodgers and i couldn't really explain to myself why i bother at this point. it's incredibly deflating.

2005-08-10 21:20:23
332.   Xeifrank
331. Have a safe trip, and when you come back the Dodgers will probably only be 2 games out of first. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:20:34
333.   Bob Timmermann
331
Go back to 101
I thought it would cheer people up today!
2005-08-10 21:20:52
334.   King of the Hobos
The A's have taken the lead over the Angels, 4-2. If they hold onto ti, their lone all star will win
2005-08-10 21:21:36
335.   Uncle Miltie
Sanchez is the most overworked reliever on the team. Fortunately, he was able to get out of that jam. Schmoll needs to come in next inning, no matter what the Dodgers do in the bottom of the 8th.
2005-08-10 21:22:16
336.   ddger
331 Wish I could go on vacation, "away from Dodgers"? I guess following Dodgers is addictive, you know it's going to be painful but you do it anyway.
2005-08-10 21:22:56
337.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies beat the Pirates 6-5. The NL West will win at least one game tonight!
2005-08-10 21:23:03
338.   King of the Hobos
335 He made 35 pitches yesterday. If it weren't Utley-Abreu-Burrell, I wouldn't mind
2005-08-10 21:23:22
339.   Jim Hitchcock
331 - I care, Vishal. Sometimes you just have to take it a game at a time.

I've driven across country, by myself. My eight track took a crap in the Florida Keys...made it all the way back to Kansas before having a Burning Need To Fix It. Beware of Kansas.

2005-08-10 21:25:14
340.   gcrl
is this for the golden sombrero, or is that 5 ks?
2005-08-10 21:25:14
341.   regfairfield
335 - I think an overlooked aspect of Jim Tracy muppetry is the "never a bad time for Duaner Sanchez" aspect.

When you want a guy to hold down a tie game for two innings the day after you have him pitch three runs down, it quickly leads to overuse.

2005-08-10 21:25:21
342.   Steve
Another retarded bunt that will go unremarked upon tonight on Baseball Tonight.
2005-08-10 21:25:59
343.   Xeifrank
As long as our GB <= Games Left vs Padres, I will be in denial. A win tonight would put us 6 games out with 6 left to play against the Pads. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:27:09
344.   natepurcell
valentin and cruz are the same type of hitter. wierd huh?
2005-08-10 21:28:23
345.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres have one hit tonight against Kris Benson in 8 innings. Miguel Olivo had it.

No Met or Padre has ever thrown a no-hitter.

2005-08-10 21:28:26
346.   Kayaker7
Phillips grounds out in his 4th at bat. Figures. No one was in scoring position.
2005-08-10 21:28:35
347.   Benaiah
This is what I don't understand, with the game quite likely heading into extra innings, why waste a PH when it is obvious that you will have to PH soon? Didn't Tracy learn from batting Weaver against the Cards?
2005-08-10 21:28:48
348.   Xeifrank
I have to admit that I like the way that Buntermaker has managed to squeeze 5 runs out of only 4 hits. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:29:34
349.   regfairfield
So, we were playing for the off chance that Valentin doubles there? I don't get it.
2005-08-10 21:29:38
350.   Kayaker7
Yay...Cruz got on base.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-08-10 21:30:16
351.   Benaiah
347 - On that note I am going to bed, it is late here on the East Coast. Hopefully the bums will pull one out as we head into the weekend. Have a good night everyone.
2005-08-10 21:31:08
352.   Bob Timmermann
Meanwhile, back to the most important topic of the day, the meaning of "celery stalks at midnight"

The title of the song and book is an homage of sorts to a joke, which is slightly less famous than "The Aristocrats". It's just a pun about celery moving around under the cover of darkness. It's just a weird image.

Why Vin mentioned it, he probably thought that the shattered bat looked like a celery stalk by the sound it made when it shattered. And the song and book title came into his head.

2005-08-10 21:31:13
353.   Xeifrank
So, who's left on our bench with Repko and Old Maid into the game? vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:31:14
354.   King of the Hobos
Navarro is due to get injured. With no Edwards, who knows who our emergency catcher is
2005-08-10 21:31:19
355.   gcrl
a non save situation = ghame over
2005-08-10 21:32:05
356.   Bob Timmermann
354
The emergency catcher will be either Derrel Thomas or Trenidad Hubbard.
2005-08-10 21:32:07
357.   Xeifrank
That HBP wasn't even close. Maybe his leg will be in too much pain to steal. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:32:18
358.   King of the Hobos
Yet again, no perfect inning. Just once, just once...
2005-08-10 21:33:05
359.   Bob Timmermann
Now a 2-hitter for Benson.

David Ross got a single.

You are not meant to get a no-hitter if you give up hits to BOTH Miguel Olivo and David Ross in the same game.

2005-08-10 21:33:36
360.   Xeifrank
357. Nope. Leg not too painful to steal. Maybe too painful to steal 3rd though! vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:33:48
361.   King of the Hobos
Navarro got close again. That was probably Yhency's fault. Another Freel expedition?
2005-08-10 21:34:01
362.   Kayaker7
What?! Clutchman J. Phillips is out of the game??
2005-08-10 21:34:21
363.   gcrl
356

i was at a game where derrel thomas caught. i believe he was the starting catcher. he hit his only home run of the season at that game, too.

2005-08-10 21:34:35
364.   Xeifrank
Gotta like the steal for taking the bat out of the hands of Abreu. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:34:47
365.   Jim Hitchcock
FYB.
2005-08-10 21:35:07
366.   Steve
Please God, let Burrell be bunting.
2005-08-10 21:35:32
367.   ddger
Our relievers must be getting some kind of commission from ROLAIDS or TUMS.
2005-08-10 21:36:22
368.   Xeifrank
WEC is 33.1%
vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:37:57
369.   King of the Hobos
Gas Can Gio in the pen. I'm not sure which is worse, Gas Can or Ghame Over
2005-08-10 21:38:11
370.   Jim Hitchcock
Wat to lose the game, Yhency.
2005-08-10 21:38:20
371.   King of the Hobos
@#$%&!
2005-08-10 21:38:39
372.   gcrl
told you so.
2005-08-10 21:38:45
373.   King of the Hobos
368 I belive you meant 1%
2005-08-10 21:38:58
374.   Xeifrank
How are we going to make up 4 runs with Phillips out of the game. vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:39:29
375.   Jim Hitchcock
Like I was saying...
2005-08-10 21:42:40
376.   Kayaker7
Ghame over dude!!

:( :(

2005-08-10 21:44:11
377.   jasonungar05
wow.I thought I gave up yesterday.
2005-08-10 21:44:12
378.   Bob Timmermann
The server slapped down my comment, which is entirely out of place now, that Pat Burrell has no sacrifices in his career.

But there. I've said it!

2005-08-10 21:44:31
379.   Bob Timmermann
The server slapped down my comment, which is entirely out of place now, that Pat Burrell has no sacrifices in his career.

But there. I've said it!

2005-08-10 21:44:58
380.   Bob Timmermann
I've said it twice.

I won't say it again!

2005-08-10 21:45:50
381.   King of the Hobos
There's a perfect inning of sorts, but I was referring to an inning where all 3 batters made outs, not 3 of the 7
2005-08-10 21:45:59
382.   Sam DC
After acceptance comes . . . ?
2005-08-10 21:46:34
383.   ddger
Braz wasn't satisfied with matching Schmoll. He had to outdo him.

Any volunteers for closer?

2005-08-10 21:46:42
384.   Kayaker7
So...what's the Dodgers' record when losing after 8 innings?
2005-08-10 21:49:18
385.   JSN
Acceptance, Acceptance, Acceptance.

This season is over for us. From now on, I am only watching games as a scout for 2006. So far, as someone posted earlier, the list is short: Drew, Kent, Bradley, Gagne, Penny and Choi are the only safe players in my book for the major league roster.
I expect nothing of this team for the rest of the year. We should all focus on speculation about next year.

Dodgers, please make me eat crow. Though I recognize it would be a miracle.

This is my mantra.

2005-08-10 21:49:30
386.   King of the Hobos
Who else wants to sign Robin Ventura out of retirement to be our closer?
2005-08-10 21:49:38
387.   Xeifrank
What's our record when trailing after 9 innings? :) vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:50:02
388.   Bob Timmermann
384
I would assume it's pretty bad. Every team is pretty bad when losing after 8.

Then again, I've seen the Dodgers win twice coming from behind in the bottom of the ninth, which is usually more than most people see in a year.

2005-08-10 21:50:29
389.   ddger
I hate SD. They keep losing to give us false hope.
2005-08-10 21:51:19
390.   JSN
I have no false hope. The granny was more bone crushing for me than falling to 8 back.
2005-08-10 21:51:35
391.   Xeifrank
Any guesses on the next time Choi starts a game at 1B again? vr, Xei
2005-08-10 21:52:42
392.   JSN
2006, when JT is not the manager.
2005-08-10 21:52:47
393.   Kayaker7
387 xeifrank, were you ever in the military? We used that v/r salutation all the time in the Navy.
2005-08-10 21:53:27
394.   ddger
Braz should NEVER be used unless it's save situation rest of the season.
2005-08-10 21:54:10
395.   Uncle Miltie
Hey at least Tracy can't Phillips, Lowe, or Carrara tonight
2005-08-10 21:55:02
396.   King of the Hobos
A 3 game sweep would give DePo an excuse to fire Tracy. Whatever it takes for Choi to start

The A's win .Their lone all star, Justin Duchscherer, took the win. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but wouldn't be crazy if the WS team's only all star was a middle reliever

2005-08-10 21:55:21
397.   Vishal
yup. glad i switched over to the A's game. that huston street is a heck of a kid.

and on the other hand, it seems my ghame over shirt has now attained a sort of ironic propriety again. at least yhency's being consistent.

thanks for the well-wishes, guys. i'll try to check in.

2005-08-10 21:57:12
398.   Uncle Miltie
Praise
2005-08-10 21:57:24
399.   ddger
Ghame Over should be Ghame Blown.
2005-08-10 21:58:56
400.   JSN
I'm going to mail my Ghame Over shirt to Brazoban and have him refund me.

j/k it's still a cool shirt.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-08-10 21:59:05
401.   ddger
At least we lead the league in having the highest ERA among closers.
2005-08-10 22:00:14
402.   natepurcell
well that was an exciting game. not the ending i hoped for but oh well.

i think i am in acceptance now too. oh well, time to look forward to the offseason to see how depo fixes this mess, next season, and our very high draft pick in next years draft.

2005-08-10 22:02:48
403.   Eric L
Touching on what Jon mentioned yesterday..

Has anyone noticed that the content at BTF (Primer) is less insightful than it used to be?

I would love to see more links similar to what Jon has done here at DT. It would be cool to see some nice analysis on the Nats (just using it as an example) or some of the teams that I know in passing.

Instead, we get steroid threads on a daily basis. How the heck is that a Baseball Think Factory?

2005-08-10 22:07:23
404.   oldbear
Braz is only good in save chances. And Ryan Howard seems to own him.

I get the very bad feeling that if Choi was given the same at bats Howard is, they'd be the same player.

All i want to see the rest of the year is Choi start at 1st, AP start at 3rd. Make Robles the starter at SS. Izzy should be utility infielder.

It'll never happen.

2005-08-10 22:08:43
405.   natepurcell
i dont even care for AP starting at 3b, just have choi start at 1b. pleaseee!!!! we are out of it, DEVELOP TALENT FOR NEXT YEAR TRACY!
2005-08-10 22:10:47
406.   Bob Timmermann
If the Mariners beat the Twins tonight, they tie the Dodgers at 50-63!
2005-08-10 22:11:51
407.   Eric L
And the M's might be better than the Dodgers because they have Super Beltre...
2005-08-10 22:13:21
408.   Mick
I remember when Bill Russell was manager and Worrell was closer and it seemed like he was on the way to setting a world record for blown saves. . . in an interview Russell said something like "Worrell was my closer yesterday and he'll be my closer tomorrow. He is the guy we go to to close out our games." Something like that, anyway. One of many brilliant moves leading up to Bill Russell being the first Dodger manager being fired in almost 50 years. So now Tracy is continuously putting the game in Yhency's hands and wondering why his team is in third place. It reminds me of a definition of insanity - taking the same action over and over and expecting a different result. This is the team that DePo built, and it could end up in fourth place before it's all over. I can't imagine them playing anything but golf in the post-season.
2005-08-10 22:19:18
409.   rageon
Forget this crap about Braz only being good in save opportunities. He's simply a bad pitcher right now. Do you honestly believe that there's some sort of mental switch in his head that allows him to pitch in a "save" situation? How about just being able to pitch in a close game. I'd much rather have him get 3 outs in a row in a tie game than when we have a 3 run lead.

The Dodgers, right now...

...have a guy who hits so-so for a catcher starting at first base.

...said catcher plays only because the manager has some personal vendetta against the better player.

...continue to give the ball to our worst pitcher in the most important situations.

...overwork one of our decent relievers to the point where he's basically average at best.

...bat 2 of the worst 3 hitters on the roster 1st and 2nd, every single day.

This is getting ridiculous. The way the team is being run is a joke. Period. And Depo better do something about it ASAP, or I'm going to officially blame him as much as I do Tracy. There's no reason to wait until the end of the year. No reason. Fire him or get some balls and team him that it's going to be done a certain way.

2005-08-10 22:19:45
410.   HomeDePo
so... did anybody else scream and yell after the homer tonight? I want to email Paul DePodesta to ask him when he will fire JT. Anybody know his email address? I am now 60% Dodgers, %40 A's. In 2006 I will switch back to full Dodgers, as I was two nights ago.
2005-08-10 22:22:33
411.   Steve
OK. Assume everyone agrees that the Brazoban situation has to change. I agree. You agree. Tracy agrees. Everyone agrees. How could anyone not? Well, Tracy might not, but we know about him.

So what do we do? AAA him and give him time to learn a new pitch? Change the rotation and have him pitch close games earlier (7th and 8th innings)? Use him in the Erickson slot? The kid's young and has a functional arm, apparently. Or was last year and the beginning of this year just fluky and he's really incompetent, and we should have traded him back in May?

Trading our way into barely competent relievers (see Urbina, Ugueth) is not a formula for success. If this franchise is going to be long-term successful, it has to develop arms like Brazoban's. So this is an important and meaningful test, and it goes beyond whatever random inning Tracy pulls out of a hat and decides to pitch him.

So what do we do?

2005-08-10 22:26:26
412.   ddger
Send Braz down to work on another pitch besides fastball. Everyone is catching up to his only pitch fastball.
2005-08-10 22:27:32
413.   ddger
Braz doesn't seem to have baseball savvy in my opionion.
2005-08-10 22:28:04
414.   Eric L
That is the problem Steve.. what do the Dodgers do?

If they had a reasonable chance at being successful, I could see Braz being demoted to low leverage situations. I might not agree with it, but when games actually count, it wouldn't be a terrible decision.

As it is, they need to keep trotting out Sanchez, Schmoll, Brox, and Braz as often possible as long as it doesn't mess with their development.

2005-08-10 22:29:57
415.   rageon
411 I say put him back in AAA. Far more established players have been sent back to AAA, so I'm not going to buy the "it's an insult to him" argument. He's got an arm, but doesn't know how to pitch. He's only been at it a few years, and we pretty much rushed him last year. Put in in the minors for the rest of the season when he can experiment and figure out what works. Basically, get him ready for next season. And I think the best place for that in the minors, where players are supposed to learn how to play.
2005-08-10 22:30:28
416.   ddger
Could Braz be a 1/2 season wonder? Did we expect too much too soon?
2005-08-10 22:30:38
417.   King of the Hobos
If the A's somehow miss the playoffs, who do I root for? The Red Sox and Yankee fan bases annoy me, I just don't like the White Sox, Atlanta has won way too much, the Cards are too good i guess, and Padres and Angels are the ...Padres and Angels. I guess that leaves the NL Wild card. The As better win
2005-08-10 22:32:43
418.   HomeDePo
417 - if the As do not make it I pull for the Astros. they never one anything
2005-08-10 22:38:27
419.   dzzrtRatt
Someone said many posts ago they were rooting for the D-backs. Yeah, that's where I am, too. We're fork fodder now. Just don't want the Padres to get it. Or the Giants.

Beating the dead horse to death, if Tracy doesn't get it that the time has come to put future prospects out there, he should be so fired his children are fired.

I actually think the usage of the relievers is consistent with that. Yhency, Schmoll & co. need to either work through this, or fail and be gone. If Yhency is going to become a Scot Shield type for us next year, it'll be because of his f-ng up this year, instructively. If does not necessarily mean when, however.

2005-08-10 22:40:13
420.   ddger
The bullpen really worried me before the trading deadline and now it's become our albatross. I really don't have much hope that it will get any better this season.

Hope Gagne comes back 100% next year. It's easy to take it for granted until it's gone

2005-08-10 22:41:57
421.   Steve
I have always lacked the distaste some have for Sanchez. Sanchez is 75% of relief pitchers. Very cheap, gives you a lot of good innings and some bad ones. I think Schmoll will end up being similar. Nothing special, but very cheap and will give a lot of good innings with some bad ones.

Braz is 25. Sanchez is 25. Schmoll is even younger IIRC. We are not playing for anything. The season is over.

Sometimes you have to change just for the sake of change. So something has to be done with Braz. But in principle, I agree with 414. We take our lumps now in the hope that these players, who are within the organization and appear to have major league level arms, can improve their control and learn from their mistakes.

That doesn't mean that I would be upset about Braz going down to AAA, if he got regular work and worked on his mechanics and possibly another pitch (though his problem lately is just an obscene WHIP, including three walks tonight). I do get upset when one of our young relievers has a bad inning, and all of a sudden people want to waste time, money, and energy on Paul Quantrill or Mike Remlinger, who are the same damn pitcher but ten years older, more worn out, and useless.

2005-08-10 22:43:09
422.   Midwest Blue
409 I have the same feelings.
411 Put him in the Erickson slot while he learns a new pitch. Make Schmoll and Brox the set-up guys, Duaner the closer and Gio and Alvarez the mop-up guys. And when Brox matures make him the closer.

And we'll still blow 40% of the games.

I'm still not in ACCEPTANCE until after this weekend. I'm enjoying my games damnit despite the pen that blows and Jim Tracy!

2005-08-10 22:45:12
423.   HomeDePo
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050808&content_id=1162749&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

read paragraphs 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, and 11. The rest is BS.

the writer makes a couple errors (like saying that Antonio Perez is the Dodgers best hitter, even though Jeff Kent is), but she is ok in the paragraphs mentioned.

2005-08-10 22:45:27
424.   Steve
In the same vein, of course, Perez should be playing third and Choi first every night. That is not even debatable.
2005-08-10 22:48:21
425.   Midwest Blue
As if anyone is surprised, the Dodgers's closer is now 2-7 with a 6.46 ERA. Ghame Over indeed. Oh, how foolish we were.

Rumor has it this Dodger team started the season 12-2. Really.

2005-08-10 22:51:27
426.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not going to be able to see Thursday or Friday's games. And not much of Saturday and Sunday.

All for the best I guess.

But I should be enjoying a nice concert at the Hollywood Bowl. Box seats too. You know, people don't bring beach balls to concerts there.

2005-08-10 22:53:43
427.   Midwest Blue
Bob, you could be the first ;)
2005-08-10 22:57:12
428.   HomeDePo
Going to fridays game. front row loge seats. I wish i was not going but i will for the hotdogs. thinking about wearing a better teams hat, like the royals. I might start chanting Hee-Seop's name when the other 1st baseman comes up
2005-08-10 22:57:43
429.   Steve
Are you going to see Tony Bennett, Bob?
2005-08-11 04:59:35
430.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey! Tony Bennett! I wonder if he'll sing `I Left My Glove In San Francisco'?
2005-08-11 12:40:10
431.   Kayaker7
409 Yeah, agree wholeheartedly. The "closer" is one of the more enduring myths in baseball. Brazoban simply is not a very good reliever at this point. I think, after running an exhaustive study, Bill James concluded a few years ago, that the best reliever (the closer) should be brought in when the game is tied, not when the team is ahead.
2005-08-11 16:02:20
432.   Tommy Naccarato
Did any of you happen to check out how the Angels lost the game today?
2005-08-12 01:07:00
433.   kodax
I posted this on MLB but I spent so much time writing it that I will post again here where the intelligence level seems to be higher.

The bullpen is catching alot of heat for the loss today and in general, as well it should, but bullpen battles are fought on two fronts and the war is really being lost on the other side..that is..the other team's bullpens are shutting down this lineup.

If you look at today's game, the late inning bullpen collapse catches your eye..but the real story lies in all the 0s the Dodger lineup put up in the late innings after the starter was pulled and the bullpen was inserted. However, this has been an ongoing problem for the dodgers since the all-star break which has been overshadowed and hidden by the bad bullpen. In fact, the lack of offense in the late innings has probably added to the bullpen problems as relief pitchers pitch under the added burden knowing it is unlikely that they will get support.

This is supported by team statistics:
Representing BA, OBP, Slg and OPB

overall .258 .327 .404 .732
7th+ .245 .322 .358 .680
close and late
.237 .329 .344 .673

Overall numbers are pretty bad but offense simply fall of the table by the time we get to close and late. Over a 20 point dip in BA and nearly a 50! point dip in OPB. Clearly, the Dodgers are getting handled by bullpens. However, one might argue, Is this part of a general ML trend and not just a LA problem? After all, bullpens are specialists and relievers, fresh arms and lefty lefty and righty righty matchups to shut down the best hitters ..nasty side armers and odd deliveries especially made to shut down the right handers or left handers in the lineup roam the bullpens of MLB (remember this point). One might think so, but take a look at the corresponding stats of teams opposing the Dodgers:

overall .272 .332 .440 .772
7th+ .283 .362 .457 .819
close and late
.283 .375 .467 .841

OK..the Dodger bad bullpen weakens the arguement that the bullpens tend to generally shut down offenses..but at keast this is useful to show us the bullpen is not the main culpret for late inning ineptness. The batting average for opposing teams only rises by 11 points vs a 20 point late inning dip for the Dodger offense.

Lets take anothe statistical sample from a team with a very good and balanced offense. The Red Sox:

overall .283 .362 .455 .816
7th+ .273 .353 .441 .794
close and late
.305 .380 .486 .866

There is about a 10 point drop off across the board for 7th on but the offense actually gets better in the late innings and close games. The fact that this team plays with a DH should actually mean the offense should do worse since an extra batter isnt coming in to hit for the pitcher in late innings.., but anyway, lets look at a NL sample for consistency...another good and balanced offensive team. St Louis:

overall .270 .340 .431 .771
7th+ .267 .345 .411 .755
close and late
.261 .332 .374 .706

Only a slight drop in 7th+ and a single digit drop in close and late.

However, not every team can be the powerhouse Cards or Red Sox right? This kind of thing is a part of why they are good teams and doesnt necessarily prove the Dodgers stinkiness is attributed to their late inning offense right?..Wrong. Take a look at their closest team in W-L (Seattle) and their closest division neighbor (Arizona).

Seattle:

overall .257 .315 .393 .708
7th+ .253 .323 .364 .686
close and late
.251 .329 .375 .704

Arizona

overall .259 .334 .424 .758
7th+ .264 .351 .415 .766
close and late
.285 .364 .455 .819

Seattle only suffers a minor dip overall while Arizona actually gets better.

What does this all mean?

On the surface, it means opposing bullpens are having unusual success against the Dodgers and there is something inherantly wrong with the lineup that makes it vulnerable in this way. The comparatively weak teams sampled, Seattle and Arizona, have similar overall numbers to LA but do not suffer this extreme drop off so its not just overall ineffective offense.

Below the surface, there are two things going on. Firstly, there is a tactical problem here. Baseball managers dont really contribute alot to a game in a tactical sense..but what they can do, they do it in the late innings. Tracy defenders can argue about injuries and lack of talent but when the same 8 guys start doing significantly worse during the late innings, it means Tracy is getting outmanaged and opposing managers are getting the bullpen matchups they want pretty much want...which leads to the second point. Strategy. Managers do effect game strategy by putting together a line-up card and Tracy has been putting out a lineup featuring a heavy dose of right handed bats bunched together in the middle..even when facing right handed starters and despite the fact he has a perfectly good left handed power hitter available to him in Choi (250 14 hrs in 250 AB). Im not going to argue whether this affects overall production against the starter but this lineup is easy pickings for a bullpen and makes an opposing manager's life very easy. Against a balanced lineup staggered with lefty and righty hitters, a manager has to think about whether to pull his struggling starter for his side arming right handed specialist as the right handed 3 hitter comes up if the 4 hitter is a lefty power hitter. Why? Because he will have to pull the specialist after one batter or have him face a lefty that can read his side armed deliver like a billboard...and then use a lefty specialist and lose that pitcher due to the right handed 5 batter..etc. Managers never have this problem against th Dodgers..the struggling starter that might have stayed in for one more batter in order to save the specialist would get pulled right away since the specialist would get to continue to face right handed hitters. The lefty gets saved for later innings as well as the rest of the bullpen. Tracy doesnt even utilize Choi off the bench correctly. The Dodger middle is riddled with weak hitting righties like Phillips and Werth but the lone left handed hitting power threat is used to pinch hit for guys near the bottom of the order leaving the middle of the order intact.

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