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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Unlucky Sevens
2005-08-11 14:06
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

The Dodgers begin the day seven games behind the Padres and seven games below .500 (4-11) in games they are tied after seven innings. Oops.

The team's overall winning percentage has fallen to .442. Outside of the 1992 team (.389) which most fans still remember, the last Dodger team with a winning percentage this low was the 1944 squad, which finished at .409 (63-91).

The good news is that both the Dodgers' losing and the war going on ended the following year.

Brooklyn's problems in '44 centered on pitching. Twenty-two-year-old Hal Gregg threw nearly 200 innings with a 5.46 ERA (65 ERA+). You think Edwin Jackson had a rough stretch? Cal McLish, who ultimately retired when he was 38, debuted at 18 and allowed 81 runs in 84 innings.

In all, the Dodgers used six pitchers who were 20 or younger, including 20-year-old Frank Wurm, whose entire major-league career consisted of one game with seven batters, five walks, one hit and one out, for a career ERA of 108.00. It is probably in poor taste for me to say that Wurm turned for the last time in 1993, at the age of 69.

On the other hand, 40-year-old Curt Davis had a 3.34 ERA in 194 innings.

The Dodger lineup hit only 56 home runs all season despite some names you would know: Mickey Owen, Eddie Stanky, Frency Bordagaray, Dixie Walker and even both Hall of Fame Waner brothers: Paul, who in 83 games at age 41 posted a .405 on-base percentage and the last of his 3,151 National League hits, and Lloyd, who was at .412 in 15 games at age 38.

The following season, the Dodgers lowered their team ERA from 4.68 to 3.70 and improved from 63 victories to 87. The 1946 Dodgers wno 96 games and the 1947 Dodgers won the NL pennant.

Comments (357)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-11 15:03:02
1.   Bob Timmermann
Curt Davis was usually called "Ol' Dan'l Boone" in the New York papers.

I can't figure out why.

2005-08-11 15:03:42
2.   Bob Timmermann
Not really at Random Dodger game callback

August 11, 1994

Originally 1994 was going to pop up toward the end of the year, so it had to be moved for reasons for which we'd all like to forget, but ….

But on a Thursday afternoon, the Los Angeles Dodgers saw their season to come to a premature close on a high note as Ramon Martinez threw a 7-hit shutout against the Reds as the Dodgers won, 2-0. The Dodgers were 58-56 and 3 ½ games ahead of the Giants. When the Dodgers got back to Los Angeles, the players' strike was on and the season was over.

Tim Wallach homered in the second to give Martinez the only run he would need. Shortstop Rafael Bournigal singled in Raul Mondesi in the fifth for the other run. Jose Rijo and reliever Hector Carrasco combined to strike out 13 Dodgers in a losing cause.

Although the Dodgers were in first when the season, they are not credited with winning the NL West. The season went into the books with no winners, which was somewhat appropriate. Baseball had split into three divisions in each league for 1994. Cincinnati was ½ game ahead of Houston in the NL Central when the season ended and Montreal had the best record in the NL at 74-40. Atlanta would have been in the wild card position. In the AL, the Yankees, White Sox, and Rangers led their divisions when the season ended and the Indians were in the wild card spot.

Although there were no division winners, there were individual awards given out and Mondesi won the Rookie of the Year award. He batted .306 with 16 home runs and also had 16 assists from the outfield. Mondesi was the third straight Dodger to be named NL Rookie of the Year.

The previous two winners, catcher Mike Piazza and first baseman Eric Karros had solid years. Piazza batted .319, slugged .541 and had 24 home runs. Karros hit 14 homers.

The Dodgers new second baseman Delino Deshields played in just 89 games and batted .250 with 2 home runs. He did steal 27 bases, tied with Brett Butler for most on the team. The player he was traded for, Pedro Martinez was 11-5 with a 3.42 ERA for Montreal. The career paths of both players would continue in opposite directions.

Pedro's brother Ramon led the Dodger pitchers in wins with 12. Kevin Gross had the lowest ERA among starters at 3.60. Orel Hershiser finished his first (and longest) tenure in Los Angeles with a 6-6 record and a 4.29 ERA.

Todd Worrell saved 11 games, but had an ERA of 4.29 and his appearances were not always greeted with anticipation by Dodgers fans. Overall the pitching staff had an ERA of 4.17.

With the three-division set up and the wild card, the chances of making the playoffs were going to go up. But the strike needed to be settled. And the off-season of 1994 brought no news. No trades, no free agent signings.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, and Retrosheet

2005-08-11 15:08:15
3.   Jon Weisman
"Although there were no division winners, there were individual awards given out."

This has never made sense to me, and in my mind, I ignore it - more for the Expos' sake than the Dodgers.

I still remember these dates. August 12 - the strike started. August 20 - my girlfriend dumped me. Bad times.

2005-08-11 15:11:36
4.   Bob Timmermann
In balance, I think you ended up ahead.
2005-08-11 15:12:23
5.   Jon Weisman
And how I grew from the experience ...
2005-08-11 15:14:52
6.   Bob Timmermann
The Waner brothers in 1944 could put up some high OBP numbers, but they had no power and were also drunk a lot.
2005-08-11 15:34:43
7.   ddger
Jon, thanks for looking up that really insightful info:

"The Dodgers begin the day seven games behind the Padres and seven games below .500 (4-11) in games they are tied after seven innings. Oops."

This stat totally reflects how poor our relief pitching has been this year and it could get lot worse this year.

2005-08-11 15:35:06
8.   Marty
7. Big poison and little poison probably was referring to booze. There should be an on base drunk percentage. I wonder what the Waner's OBDP was.
2005-08-11 15:37:05
9.   Bob Timmermann
The A's scored the winning run when Frankie Rodriguez dropped a throw back from the catcher with a runner on third.
2005-08-11 15:39:15
10.   Howard Fox
9 - Dodger baseball is on the air....
2005-08-11 15:40:24
11.   Howard Fox
9 - the Angels are trying too hard to emulate the Dodger image
2005-08-11 15:42:38
12.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets were trying too hard to be the Dodgers today losing two outfielders on one play.

The lastest report is that Beltran will probably be back soon. Cameron is getting treatment at a hospital in San Diego.

2005-08-11 15:50:57
13.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres have the exact same record that the Dodgers had on this date in 1994.
2005-08-11 15:57:20
14.   Jim Tracy
Good news, bad news? Bad news is San Diego won and we are now 7.5 games behind, but only 7 games under .500 in games we were tied in after seven innings. (Sorry, just felt like giving Jon a hard time for doing a great job looking up obscure stats.)

Good news... David Ross is still doing all he can to help the Dodgers. See post 12 above or this link

2005-08-11 16:02:23
15.   Xeifrank
9. Catcher threw the ball back to K-Rod and he dropped the ball and the runner scored from third? wow! What a way to lose a big game.
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:04:12
16.   Eric Enders
Didn't some old pitcher once write a book called "The Bases Were Loaded and so Was I"?

In other news, "Curt Davis of the Dodgers is called Daniel Boone because of his prowess with a shotgun." --Arch Ward, Chicago Tribune, 5/11/1942

Davis's nickname on BB-Ref is "Coonskin."

2005-08-11 16:04:43
17.   Xeifrank
DT Over/Under Challenge Update... tonight is the championship game between Colorado Blue and myself. Series is even at 1-1 and tonight's game will decide it all.

Colorado Blue has 6-1/3 and I have the "Under".
vr, Xei

2005-08-11 16:04:57
18.   King of the Hobos
Suns game on. Juarez pitching, and there's no Loney, Laroche, or Martin.

2005-08-11 16:05:50
19.   Eric Enders
Promotions, injuries, or days off?
2005-08-11 16:06:12
20.   Bob Timmermann
At SABR 35, Chris Jaffe gave a presentation on pitcher aging patterns and identified "The Curt Davis Effect".
2005-08-11 16:08:43
21.   Xeifrank
18. Great outing from Billingsley last night. Any chance he gets a September callup, or a chance to make the starting rotation next year?
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:08:55
22.   Eric Enders
There should also be an aging pattern called the Whit Wyatt effect. That guy's career trajectory was truly bizarre, but I'm not complaining -- we got a pennant out of it.
2005-08-11 16:11:04
23.   Eric Enders
I think the Edwin Jackson Experience is going to make the Dodgers think thrice about calling up 20-year old, highly inexperienced pitchers from AA before they're ready.
2005-08-11 16:13:13
24.   King of the Hobos
Juarez faced one batter (walked him on a full count) and they've gone to rain delay. Lightning now, and raining very heavily. Loud thunder burst then I lost sound
2005-08-11 16:13:18
25.   Howard Fox
hey Xei---if I hit Perez exactly tonite, do I get bonus points for 3 in a row?
2005-08-11 16:13:38
26.   Jim Tracy
23 - um... Broxton
2005-08-11 16:15:24
27.   Eric Enders
26 -- Good point. Still, Broxton's performance thus far isn't exactly an advertisement for recalling the other Jacksonville pitchers.
2005-08-11 16:16:51
28.   Eric Enders
To expand on 27, I think Billingsley is regarded as The Franchise, whereas Broxton is regarded as our middle reliever of the future and possibly trade bait. They may treat Billingsley more with kid gloves.
2005-08-11 16:17:14
29.   Howard Fox
27 - it just goes to show that you need a few pitches, a blazing fastball in and of itself isn't enough

as far as throwing strikes...that seems to be an epidemic for the Dodger bullpen, and maybe Broxton caught that bug

2005-08-11 16:17:30
30.   King of the Hobos
Now I've lost visual, and they've gone to "Rain Delay Theatre" in the past. This seems pretty bad, I wouldn't be surprised if there's no Suns thoughts yoday
2005-08-11 16:17:53
31.   Jim Tracy
oh no... i agree with you about not bringing up 20 year olds from AA before they are ready... especially with a 20 year old catcher telling them what pitches to throw to major leaguers.

my point is that there is no guarantee the dodgers will think thrice before calling up a billingsley.

2005-08-11 16:18:27
32.   King of the Hobos
30 "they've gone to 'Rain Delay Theatre' in the past, but they didn't in this game"
2005-08-11 16:20:00
33.   ddger
If we wipe out Braz's 7 losses, we're 1/2 game behind.
2005-08-11 16:20:09
34.   Xeifrank
23. I would hope the Dodgers would choose to promote pitchers on a case by case basis, not basing everything off of one pitchers results. It's hard being patient when you have such good young pitchers. King Felix is off to a great start in Seattle and he is only 19. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:20:36
35.   Eric Enders
So, which team has more members of the 2008 Dodgers: The 2005 Dodgers or the 2005 Suns?
2005-08-11 16:21:18
36.   Xeifrank
25. Nice picking Howard. Hope you are a little high on your pick tonight though. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:21:39
37.   Eric Enders
34 -- Amen, although King Felix has also had a sore shoulder this year. I hope he does well, as does my Roto team.
2005-08-11 16:22:30
38.   popup
Jon, thanks for the recap about the '44 Brooklyn Dodgers. I think if my memory is right that the recently departed Gene Mauch played for that team. I will throw that out and then look it up to see if I am correct. Cal McLish is still in baseball or at least was as of last year. He works for the Mariners and is reported to have put some time in with Gil Meche when Meche was sent to the minors last year. Meche pitched fairly effectively for the Mariners in the second half of the season last year so maybe Cal had a positive impact. I remember seeing Cal pitch when he was finishing up his career in Philadelphia. I remember seeing Mickey Vernon too, and he started his major league career in 1939.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 16:25:44
39.   Xeifrank
37. Yeah, I snagged him on a few teams, but he got snagged by someone with a better waiver priority than me in my keeper league. I am waiting for Tampa to call up Young or maybe Drew or Liriano to use my #2 waiver priority.
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:27:16
40.   Xeifrank
If you could pick the brain of three or four of the "old timers" who are still associated with baseball in some manner, who would they be and why? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:28:07
41.   molokai
23As I recall the Edwin Jackson experience resulted in him beating Randy Johnson on his birthday. Do you actually think beating Randy Johnson retarded his growth rate? His minor league season was over and we needed a pitcher.

From my seat the only thing wrong was that our expectations became unrealistic based on that one start. Hell, based on that one start we could have flipped him for the world before ST in 2004. I don't see how it was wrong to bring him up and I don't think his pitching for the Dodgers in 2003 is why he sucked in 2004/2005.JMO

2005-08-11 16:28:16
42.   popup
Eric, the bases loaded book is I think written by a sportswriter. Could be the title of the autobiography for almost all of them.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 16:30:59
43.   Jim Tracy
29 - I really think Broxton, Brazoban and Schmoll's problem is we do not have good catchers. Navarro may be the catcher of the future, but he is 21-22 (?) and Phillips has had a confidence downturn too since his throwing weakness has been magnified. Maybe people will disagree because I have no stats to back me up, but that is what I think.
2005-08-11 16:30:59
44.   willhite
I apologize if I'm bringing up a subject which has been beaten to death already, but I don't get a chance to visit you guys as often as I would like.

Question: If DePo decides to dispatch JT after the season and we actually get a GM and Mgr who think alike for '06, who are some of the leading candidates to manage next year?

2005-08-11 16:32:09
45.   Bob Timmermann
Mauch did play for the 1944 Dodgers. Leo Durocher was trying to make a comeback because the Dodgers were shorthanded (obviously). Mauch made a relay throw to Durocher at second that was so hard, it broke Durocher's hand and he decided to go back to managing.
2005-08-11 16:33:18
46.   popup
#40.... Vin would be #1, Buck O'Neill #2, Stan Musial #3, and Ernie Harwell #4

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 16:36:24
47.   Eric Enders
41 -- I'm not smart enough to know the cause and effect. All I know is Jackson got called up when he still had very little AA experience, and he's a train wreck now. I concede that this may not apply in all cases, or even most cases -- but it's certainly a reasonable thing to worry about.

The team also needs SP help less now than it did when Jackson was recalled. His recall was more of a last resort-type thing, in a pennant race. Then there's the whole issue of starting a guy's free agency clock early.

If any Jacksonville player is ripe for a September callup, it's Russell Martin.

2005-08-11 16:36:26
48.   Howard Fox
44 - my first choice would be Felipe Alou because he plays well to the Caribbean community
2005-08-11 16:36:43
49.   molokai
Given that Brian McCann is now the starting C for the Division leading Braves I would be shocked if Martin does not get a callup in Sept. McCann was in AA at the start of the year and is a great catching prospect but Martin is not far behind.

Since Philips is arbitration eligible that could be why he is upset when not starting. In June he must have been looking at a huge raise, now he will be lucky to get picked up by anyone to be a starting catcher. If you can't catch on one of the worse teams in baseball your future looks a bit bleak. No one else is going to play his sorry butt at 1st base.

2005-08-11 16:37:01
50.   Jim Tracy
35 - That is a great question. I would have to think Navarro, Izzy, Choi?, Bradley and Drew from our lineup have a decent chance of being with the Dodgers. The pitching is really unpredictable.. Penny and Perez will have to re-up to be with the Dodgers in 2008. Lowe will have one great spell by then and DePo will probably trade him away, or he will be in the last year of his contract.

All that being said, it is highly unlikely that all of our young horses at AA, will be bonafide MLers, let alone all of them with the Dodgers.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-11 16:37:06
51.   Xeifrank
44. Good question. Who in the managing field has a sabermetric approach to the game? Probably not somebody we can think of. If I were interviewing candidates, I'd ask the following questions...

1. What do you know about sabermetrics?
2. Would you have any problem managing your team based on sabermetrics?
3. Do you think Jason Phillips should start at first base?

vr, Xei

2005-08-11 16:37:27
52.   Eric Enders
Vinny is the obvious choice, but I'd love to pick Jaime Jarrin's brain too. And Red Schoendienst, if only to find out the truth about the rumored 1947 Cardinals boycott of Jackie Robinson.
2005-08-11 16:38:25
53.   bigcpa
Friends, Newbies, Countrymen,

I heard a few peeps about TEAM DEPO shirts. I do have around 4 left- 2 XL, 2 L.

Here's the link if interested:

2005-08-11 16:39:04
54.   Jim Tracy
46 - terrible confession coming up, but I'd love to talk to Yogi.
2005-08-11 16:39:36
55.   Jim Tracy
#54 is in response to #40.
2005-08-11 16:39:43
56.   Tim B
40 Joe Morgan and Steve Phillips.
2005-08-11 16:39:47
57.   Xeifrank
49. You may have hit on something here. Maybe Buntermaker is giving Phillips significant time at 1B because he likes the guy and wants to help him out with his contract for next year. It doesn't make much sense and therefore the perfect explanation. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:41:05
58.   Eric Enders
44. One of the flaws in the FJT argument is that nobody has been able to come up with a realistic option that is likely to be better than Tracy. A baseball man is likely to make the same stupid mistakes Tracy does, while a pure sabermetric guy would never, ever, ever be able to gain the respect of the players. You'd have to find a perfect combination of the two, and I'm not sure anyone like that exists. Maybe Von Hayes, I don't know.
2005-08-11 16:41:17
59.   Xeifrank
56. What would you ask Joe Morgan? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:41:48
60.   ddger
51 Didn't Dave Johnson use computer stats to generate his lineups.
2005-08-11 16:41:52
61.   popup
#40. I forgot about the why.... Vin because of who he is and because he has seen more Dodger games than anyone alive today. Buck because he seems like a very nice man who was eyewitness to some legends like Satch and Josh Gibson. Musial because he was a great player and I can distinctly remember him playing at the end of his career. Ernie because like Vin he has seen many games, he seems like a very nice man, and I would be able to talk with him intelligently about what I have seen while learning from him what I have not.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 16:43:29
62.   molokai
E Jackson had 148 inning in AA in 2003. It was Greg Miller who had the late season promotion and only pitched 27 innings in AA in 2003.

I would not promote Billingsly during the minor league season but I think he deserves the promotion in Sept and they should give it to him. They have to do something to give us a reason to come out and it won't be to watch Izzy/Robles/Philips/Repko/Cruz/Werth/Navarro/Valentin and the other crappy players this team has assembled.

2005-08-11 16:45:18
63.   Jim Hitchcock
40 - 46 - Buzzie Bavasi?
2005-08-11 16:45:19
64.   Tim B
59 I would probably be more of a statement like: "Shut yer piehole!"
Or something to that extent. Maybe with a few more colorful adjectives.
2005-08-11 16:46:27
65.   Eric Enders
62 - If DePo promotes Billingsley solely for the shortsighted reason of increasing September attendance, he should be fired on the spot. That's the very definition of mortgaging the future in order to CYA in the present.
2005-08-11 16:52:22
66.   Howard Fox
65 - he wouldn't do that, no matter how bad the team, they will still draw at least 35-40000...probably more as we play the Padres and Giants a lot
2005-08-11 16:52:23
67.   natepurcell
the only pitchers from the suns that should see the bigs in september are kuo and jackson.

on the topic of manager, what are everyones feelings on joe torre? a lot of rumblings saying that if the yanks dont win it all, king george wont have him back.

2005-08-11 16:53:39
68.   popup
#63, I agree, Buzzie would be another guy I would love to talk with. From what I understand he is pushing 90 but still sharp. I suggest to Jon he should interview Buzzie. He got DePo this year; Buzzie and Dodger history would be a great interview for Jon.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 16:53:56
69.   Howard Fox
67 - after managing a money is no object team, how would Torre do with the DePo constraints ?
2005-08-11 16:54:45
70.   Howard Fox
I'd rather see Bobby Cox
2005-08-11 16:55:29
71.   natepurcell
after managing a money is no object team, how would Torre do with the DePo constraints

play the best players available?

2005-08-11 16:55:50
72.   King of the Hobos
The problem with promoting Billingsley is he couldn't pitch in the Southern playoffs (not a huge issue I realize) and more importantly, he would needed to be added to the 40 man when he doesn't need to be (for the Rule V). I'd hate to put Billingsley on the roster only for us to lose another prospect. There's no need to give him a callup from my view of things.
2005-08-11 16:56:22
73.   Howard Fox
71 - for the most part, isn't Tracy already doing that? which is a sad statement on the quality of our team
2005-08-11 16:56:27
74.   Xeifrank
Why not just let Phillips be the player/manager next year. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 16:58:08
75.   Howard Fox
74 - I'd rather that be Kent
2005-08-11 16:58:41
76.   Xeifrank
72. Ok, we don't give him a callup then. Does he get a chance to make the team out of spring training? Or promoted to AAA (hate putting him in a hitters league) getting the first callup if he does well and someone gets hurt? What's the earliest and under what scenario do you see him pitching in LA? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 17:01:12
77.   Eric Enders
76 -- I'd give Billingsley a shot to make the team in Spring Training 2006, and if he doesn't I'd send him back to Jacksonville to dominate the Southern League. He hasn't quite proven himself too good for that league yet, and I would rather not see him (or any other good pitching prospect) in Vegas under any circumstances.
2005-08-11 17:02:00
78.   natepurcell
for billingsley, a mid season spot start next year if we need a starter because of injury.

that is usually how most top pitching prospects get into the bigs.

then its a matter of him taking the opportunity and running with it.

you like to have premium prospects force your hand.

like if laroche next year is hitting 330 and slugging 600 in AAA by midseason, he should get the callup.

2005-08-11 17:02:24
79.   Mark Linsey
For a manager we need someone who played pro ball (otherwise it'll be tough to lead the rest of the team) but afterward came around to agree with most of the basic ideas of sabermetrics. Ideally also should be both submissive enough to listen to the front office but tough enough to not be bothered by the anti-Moneyball media.

That's a tough combination. But the fact that we don't know anyone certainly doesn't mean that there aren't tons of viable candidates out there. Most of the well known managers or managerial candidates are baseball traditionalists. Bringing in some former player who isn't thought of as on a mangerial track would be the best way to make sure they stay under the control of the front office.

Nobody particularly good comes to mind, but while we're just throwing names out there, how about Eric Karros? I don't know anything about how he'd be as a manager but he is a hometown guy and I remember him approving of The Trade(tm) as well as complimenting Choi in his time as a broadcaster.

Or maybe if we're calling up half the Jacksonville roster like many people here want to do, we can just bring their manager with them.

2005-08-11 17:04:28
80.   natepurcell
billz peripherals:
billz peripherals:

8.08 h/9
0.76 hr/9
3.10 bb/9
10.6 k/9

3.44:1 k:bb ratio

they look pretty darn good to me. although i would like that hit rate a little lower.

2005-08-11 17:04:44
81.   Howard Fox
79 - bringing up the Jacksonville manager would not be the worst idea...
2005-08-11 17:05:38
82.   Howard Fox
80 - I'd like the walk rate a little lower...
2005-08-11 17:06:46
83.   Eric Enders
I don't see any reason to believe Karros would handle in-game strategy any better than Tracy does. Tracy is the one MLB manager who admits to having read Bill James, and still this is what we get. Karros would likely be quite a bit worse.

I also remember him blasting Choi as a broadcaster, for exactly the same reasons everyone else does. Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that he lost his starting job to Choi on the 2003 Cubs.

2005-08-11 17:07:52
84.   fanerman
Didn't somebody mention Orel Hershiser once
2005-08-11 17:08:54
85.   Howard Fox
possible manager? who is the Oakland A's bench coach?
2005-08-11 17:09:12
86.   Howard Fox
or the A's AAA manager??
2005-08-11 17:11:03
87.   Eric Enders
Hershiser strikes me as the type of person open-minded enough to be given sabermetric materials and learn from them. He does not, however, strike me as mean enough to be a MLB manager. But I could be wrong.

Even so, I think we're barking up the wrong tree here naming former Dodger stars like Karros and Hershiser. I don't think DePo is likely to consider MLB playing time with the Dodgers a factor in making his managerial pick.

2005-08-11 17:11:29
88.   DaveP
Update on Mike Cameron's injury:

Cameron broke his nose, had multiple fractures of both cheekbones and a slight concussion, Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz said. Cameron underwent two CT scans and was to be hospitalized overnight. He was placed on the disabled list.

2005-08-11 17:11:42
89.   Bob Timmermann
Rene Lachemann is the Oakland bench coach.
2005-08-11 17:12:12
90.   willhite
Maybe we need to have one of our statisticians check a few guys who have retired and played the game in a way which would have made them good candidates to be a DePo player. I would think that guys who played the game that way would be leading candidates to manage that way. Question is, who are they?

I think Karros is much more a traditionalist than a sabremetrics guy. No fit there.

2005-08-11 17:12:49
91.   Bob Timmermann
Mike's taking the rest of 2005 off with those type of injuries.

I think the fracture cheekbones are going to be tricky to deal with.

2005-08-11 17:13:48
92.   Eric Enders
I don't know about their AAA manager, but Von Hayes, who I mentioned in #58, is Oakland's AA manager. He also has the benefit of having had a long MLB career in which he was a protoypical sabermetric player. (Not that someone's managerial tendencies are guaranteed to match his playing style-- just ask Frank Robinson.)
2005-08-11 17:14:13
93.   willhite
84 - getting Orel back here to manage would be a spectacular PR Coup. He's a very intelligent guy and would have my vote.
2005-08-11 17:14:29
94.   fanerman
92 - Don't forget Joe Morgan.
2005-08-11 17:16:46
95.   popup
I remember Steve Sax was promoted from double A to the Dodgers, so it would not be unprecedented for some of the Jacksonville kids to skip Vegas. Fernando I do believe was sent from double A to LA. I guess Vegas helps some by giving the Dodgers a business presence in a major market, but if I was McCourt/DePo I would ditch Vegas for a place better for the development of young prospects.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 17:16:55
96.   Xeifrank
93. I really have no idea how intelligent Orel is when it comes to baseball strategy. All I know is that he was a great pitcher and a very likeable person, which shouldn't qualify one as a manager. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 17:17:16
97.   Howard Fox
92 - all the A's managers up and down are schooled in the DePo/Beane method of managing...I would expect them to be on the short list
2005-08-11 17:17:17
98.   Eric Enders
Quick, somebody call the Mets and offer Jayson Werth for Lastings Milledge.
2005-08-11 17:18:17
99.   fanerman
Back to 94, Morgan doesn't manage, but... ahh, nevermind.
2005-08-11 17:18:41
100.   willhite
98 - how easy will it be to put together an outfield with 3 guys named Lastings?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-11 17:19:26
101.   King of the Hobos
90 We can go with the player with both extremes--Rickey. He walks and does nonsensical baserunning things (although he was pretty successful).
2005-08-11 17:19:38
102.   Xeifrank
97. I guess we will just have to cherry pick from the A's organization then, like we did our GM. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 17:19:38
103.   Eric Enders
96. "I really have no idea how intelligent Orel is when it comes to baseball strategy."

If that's the case, you really need to read "Men at Work."

Having just recommended a George Will book, I will now go wash my hands thoroughly.

2005-08-11 17:20:13
104.   Howard Fox
Morgan would be lost west of the Mississippi...he would be so amazed that there are baseball teams out here...
2005-08-11 17:20:49
105.   Xeifrank
103. What does it say about having your #3 hitter bunt? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 17:21:24
106.   natepurcell
i like the texas combo of showalter and orel. bring them both here.
2005-08-11 17:21:25
107.   Howard Fox
105 - wouldn't apply to us, we only have 2 hitters at any given time in our lineup
2005-08-11 17:22:16
108.   Marty
90. I'm afraid that might lead us to Rickey Henderson.
2005-08-11 17:22:27
109.   Eric Enders
105. Does Rickey have interest in managing the Dodgers? Yes, Rickey does, but only if Rickey can play too.
2005-08-11 17:22:42
110.   King of the Hobos
Texas is last in the league in sac bunts, so there's a good chance that Showalter wouldn't have our #3 bunt. 106 might be on to something...
2005-08-11 17:22:52
111.   willhite
How about offering the manager's position to Billy Beane. He's an ex-player so could relate to the guys in the dugout and would actually have a chance to put his theories into day-to-day use, and with no interference from the GM. He could probably make as much money as mgr as he now makes as GM
2005-08-11 17:23:11
112.   Marty
106. I've never liked Showalter. He's a micromanager to the nth degree.
2005-08-11 17:26:03
113.   Xeifrank
How about we just put an inflateable Jim Tracy doll in the dugout and hook it up to a lap top computer who can then manager the team. You could set it up to shake it's head when a relief pitcher gave up a home run, or have it spout out some dumb comments from a speaker in it's head at random moments. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 17:26:08
114.   willhite
112 - Agreed. Showalter seems to wear out his welcome very quickly wherever he goes. On the other hand, Orel didn't get the name Bulldog for nothing. I don't think he would be "Mr Nice Guy" if the occassion called for some ass kicking.
2005-08-11 17:26:59
115.   Eric Enders
Agree with 112. Showalter would be disastrous. His players hate him with a passion. The good thing is, I guess we'd win the World Series the year after firing his carcass.

I probably shouldn't repeat this, but it's pretty funny and comes from a reliable source. When Showalter was fired in Arizona and was trying to rent out his house, he cleaned out everything in his home except one item. Laying in the closet there was a six-foot-tall inflatable phallus that he had forgotten to take with him.

2005-08-11 17:29:03
116.   Eric Enders
"On the other hand, Orel didn't get the name Bulldog for nothing."

Actually, he did.

It was originally given to him as an ironic/derisive nickname, like Charlie Hustle. Lasorda thought he was the opposite of a bulldog and hoped he'd become one.

2005-08-11 17:29:23
117.   Jim Tracy
115 - I know Mark Grace can be an idiot sometimes, but that's no reason to call him a phallus.
2005-08-11 17:30:09
118.   Howard Fox
115 - is that where I left it?
2005-08-11 17:31:32
119.   Steve
113 -- Otto the Inflatable Autopilot hasn't worked in awhile.
2005-08-11 17:31:40
120.   willhite
Eric - I think we'd all have to agree that he did become a bulldog. For a mild mannered guy, he was as competitive a player as I've ever seen. We could use some more of that around here.
2005-08-11 17:32:10
121.   molokai
117Still laughing.
2005-08-11 17:32:22
122.   Howard Fox
120 - these days, that is spelled K-E-N-T
2005-08-11 17:32:59
123.   Steve
When Jim Tracy read Bill James, was it in German or something?
2005-08-11 17:33:04
124.   Monterey Chris
Is there any evidence that DePo does not like Tracy? He got to watch him for a year and then decided to sign him to a new two-year contract. Inner-office grumblings do not stay secrets long...if DePo was dissatisfied with Tracy, we would hear about it and we would hear about it often.
2005-08-11 17:33:08
125.   molokai
Broxton does look like a bulldog.
Why Orel and not Fernando?
2005-08-11 17:33:30
126.   willhite
122 - now there's a manager's personality if I've ever seen one!
2005-08-11 17:33:37
127.   Howard Fox
123 - braille
2005-08-11 17:34:25
128.   Eric Enders
123. In one article I read when he was first hired, Tracy claimed to have read Bill James' book on baseball managers.

Unfortunately, that's the book in which James says that maybe bunting isn't such a bad thing, after all.

2005-08-11 17:35:03
129.   Howard Fox
124 - DePo strikes me as a guy who doesn't gossip...I think the guy in the office next to his probably doesn't know him well...
2005-08-11 17:35:54
130.   Steve
128 -- Damn it, that's like giving shotguns to four-year olds.
2005-08-11 17:37:04
131.   Howard Fox
130 - what else do you buy a 4 year old for their birthday?
2005-08-11 17:37:04
132.   willhite
Now that Seattle has put out all that up front money for Beltre, why don't we offer them Guzman and take him back for the rest of the contract? I'll bet you that part of his lousy stats is due to cold Seattle weather and the fact that he doesn't really like living up there.
2005-08-11 17:37:45
133.   popup
Regarding who should be next Dodger manager I would lean towards an unknown more than Torre, Alou or any of the other names I have seen on this thread. Dan Rohn, the guy who manages triple A in my hometown would be my first choice.

Perhaps I will draw the ire of some who post here but I would prefer some stability on this ballclub. Don't give the manager after Tracy a 23 year contract, but I would very much like someone like Walt Alston to take over and stay for a good long time. I think many people on the internet want to change things too much instead of being patient enough to bring good people in and give them time to grow.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 17:37:59
134.   Steve
Simers or Plaschke wrote something a few weeks back about DePodesta wandering the field before one game and the coaching staff studiously ignoring him, insinuating that they don't like each other.

But that is S and P, and they are dunderheads. Who knows whether that's true.

On the other hand, Jason Phillips is playing first base, and that's all the proof anyone needs.

2005-08-11 17:39:06
135.   Howard Fox
133 - you do know that Alston never had more than a 1 year contract...
2005-08-11 17:39:58
136.   Howard Fox
Phillips is at first cause he wears the coolest glasses
2005-08-11 17:40:09
137.   molokai
If Bill James said it then maybe it has some validity. One of the few books of his I haven't read so I'll have to pick it up to see in what context he said that.
2005-08-11 17:42:07
138.   Eric Enders
Agree strongly with the last sentence of 133. Don't know much about Dan Rohn, though.
2005-08-11 17:42:57
139.   ddger
AM 1540 says Braz is out as closer. Schmoll and Sanchez will close now.
2005-08-11 17:43:15
140.   Howard Fox
133 & 138 - that would apply to DePodesta as well, not just to the Dodger manager
2005-08-11 17:44:04
141.   Howard Fox
Sanchez as closer?? That is like using gasoline to douse a fire

Schmoll I am okay with...

2005-08-11 17:44:36
142.   Steve
Judging from his career, Dan Rohn may at least be familiar with the concept of small sample sizes.
2005-08-11 17:47:05
143.   ddger
At least Schmoll's ERA 5.40 is lower than Braz's 6.46.
2005-08-11 17:47:18
144.   Eric Enders
You know, Tracy has still posted a winning record with every real major league team he's ever been given. His irrational hatred of Choi notwithstanding, I wouldn't be too opposed to giving him a mulligan for this year and bringing him back.
2005-08-11 17:48:47
145.   LetsGoDodgers
Billy Beane owns a part of the franchise now, so he's an unlikely defector.
2005-08-11 17:49:34
146.   Howard Fox
143 - but at least Schmoll throws strikes
2005-08-11 17:50:03
147.   willhite
145 - I guess that eliminates Magic also
2005-08-11 17:52:05
148.   Steve
The only bad part of this Braz move is that the next couple of times he gets rocked, everyone will say that it is because he can "only" pitch in save situations.
2005-08-11 17:52:16
149.   Howard Fox
144 - doesn't Tracy have a second year on this contract?
2005-08-11 17:53:05
150.   Eric Enders
149 -- Yep.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-11 17:54:04
151.   Howard Fox
150 - then he isn't going anywhere in 2006
2005-08-11 17:54:06
152.   rageon
I think I'm one of the few that hasn't given up on Duaner. I think he could be decent, but his workload has make him ineffective. He made a ton of appearances as a rookie last year, and continues to do so this season. Give him a day off once and a while and I think he could easily be a sub-3.00 ERA reliever.

Schmoll, well I guess I'd play matchups with him. See e.g. Chad Bradford.

I like the idea of Orel managing, but I'd be a little worried about his willingness to take orders from Google Boy. Which is why Ron Washington might be my first choice. Well, that is, first choice not counting Davy Johnson. But for some reason I don't see that one happening.

2005-08-11 17:55:43
153.   Howard Fox
I like Duaner as the 8th inning pitcher. Lately, he has been bearing down and has looked much better. I don't think he has the demeanor of a closer as he is a little too emotional.
2005-08-11 17:56:40
154.   Howard Fox
152 - Earl Weaver has a better shot at managing us than Davy Johnson.
2005-08-11 17:57:03
155.   the OZ
144 - To stick with the golf metaphor, Tracy has hit plenty of duck hooks, shanks, and whiffs this season. I'd be fine with giving Tracy a mulligan if I had any confidence that his next shot was going to be any better than the rest of the shots he has hacked around the course this season.

If you give a 40-handicap golfer a mulligan, odds are it makes no difference in his score since all his shots are bad anyway. Mulligans are only useful when the player is skilled enough that the bad shot was an aberration, and the next shot will be significantly better.

2005-08-11 17:57:18
156.   Steve
Tracy can opt out of the contract on his own, and that is what is going to happen. He doesn't need to be fired.

I have seen Ron Washington's name here before, and I have read Moneyball. I don't understand why he would be more likely than anyone else not to play Jason Phillips at first base.

2005-08-11 17:57:46
157.   popup
#135, yes, I know Walt was given one year contracts. 23 of them. I liked Walt, Tommy not so much. Nontheless, I do think the stability the Dodgers had in the dugout contributed to the success of the franchise. I don't advocate keeping Tracy necessarily, but if you fire Tracy and then fire the guy who follows him the minute things go wrong, I would rather keep Tracy.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 17:58:21
158.   the OZ
155 (continued) -

The poker metaphor would be "don't throw good money after bad."

2005-08-11 17:59:28
159.   King of the Hobos
Phillips already owns several roles he doesn't deserve, why not give him closer as well?
2005-08-11 17:59:37
160.   Howard Fox
157 - I would rather keep Tracy

good, you can keep him

2005-08-11 17:59:58
161.   Eric Enders
"If you give a 40-handicap golfer a mulligan, odds are it makes no difference in his score since all his shots are bad anyway. Mulligans are only useful when the player is skilled enough that the bad shot was an aberration, and the next shot will be significantly better."

Agreed. And if you look at what Tracy has done over the last 5 years instead of the last 5 minutes, an aberration is exactly what 2005 looks like.

2005-08-11 18:00:09
162.   Steve
159 -- The same could be said of Izturis. hmmmm...he hits like a pitcher too.
2005-08-11 18:00:14
163.   Howard Fox
159 - cause he can't throw the ball that far
2005-08-11 18:01:07
164.   Steve
an aberration is exactly what 2005 looks like

No it isn't. We were just fortunate that the results were marginally better.

2005-08-11 18:02:49
165.   willhite
152, 154 - a Baltimore columnist wrote a column today suggeting that the Orioles bring back Davey Johnson to manage there next year. Probably a better choice for him than here.

Suggestion for next Dodger mgr - Jason Philips. That way he'd put himself back at catcher and there would be one less guy for Hee Sop to pass on his way to first base playing time.

2005-08-11 18:03:32
166.   Eric Enders
Hey, I've got an idea -- Jason Phillips for manager!
2005-08-11 18:04:55
167.   Steve
Antonio Perez for manager! He appears to be the only person who knows he can hit.
2005-08-11 18:07:01
168.   willhite
What year was it that the Cubs used a committee of 9 to manage? How about 8 computer geeks plus Tommy L. just to keep them honest.
2005-08-11 18:07:17
169.   Steve
Kaz Matsui led off for the Mets today. So many of them deserve to be fired.
2005-08-11 18:09:49
170.   natepurcell
wow, guzman has walked 3 times in the last 4 games or so.

small sample size, but this is very encouraging.

2005-08-11 18:10:21
171.   Eric Enders
See, that's the thing. You can argue that Tracy stinks, but if so, there are 28 or 29 who stink worse.
2005-08-11 18:13:11
172.   popup
The Cubs college of coaches was in the early 60's; 1961 or so. Too bad Buck O'Neill was not one of the coaches in the mix. It would have made him the first black major league manager instead of Frank.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 18:24:37
173.   natepurcell
beltran perez is pitching for the suns. he is a pitcher we got in the green deal.

he is actually pretty decent. i like his stuff.

2005-08-11 18:26:09
174.   King of the Hobos
No Izzy today!

SS Robles
LF Werth
CF Bradley
2B Kent
3B Valentin
1B Phillips
RF Cruz
C Navarro
P Perez


SS Rollins
CF Michaels
RF Abreu
LF Burrell
2B Utley
3B Bell
1B Howard
C Lieberthal
P Lidle

Who was sent down? No idea, Gameday won't tell me pitchers names

2005-08-11 18:35:31
175.   ddger
Hmm.... Valentin is batting 5th. He must be improving.
2005-08-11 18:36:43
176.   ddger
Ledee, Perez, Saenz, Choi are available for PH duties tonight!!!!!
2005-08-11 18:36:49
177.   the OZ
174 - to see everyone on the roster, click "Philadelphia" in the little white space between the "BOXSCORE/LINEUPS AND BENCH" tabs and it will swap hitters/pitchers for each team.
2005-08-11 18:38:58
178.   ddger
I don't see Alvarez, did he retire?
2005-08-11 18:42:14
179.   King of the Hobos
177 Thanks, that has been bothering me for quite some time
2005-08-11 18:42:26
180.   molokai
Got to love it when a crappy team has a better bench then the starting team. I'm starting to hate my team. I should probably take the season off and take another peak in January.
2005-08-11 18:43:40
181.   ddger
Tracy must be saving our best players for the stretch run later.
2005-08-11 18:44:20
182.   HomeDePo
why is jayson werth playing? rather have repko than Jayson "Strikeout" Werth.
2005-08-11 18:45:12
183.   ddger
Tracy likes to take guys coming off DL and put them 2nd in lineup.
2005-08-11 18:49:24
184.   Steve
See, that's the thing. You can argue that Tracy stinks, but if so, there are 28 or 29 who stink worse.

But isn't that just a result of MLB's peculiar groupthink?

2005-08-11 18:49:39
185.   Sam DC
182 check out 53
2005-08-11 18:51:04
186.   Eric Enders
184 - Of course. But thinking you can change MLB's peculiar groupthink in one swoop is naive. All (or almost all) legitimate managerial candidates are also results of MLB's peculiar groupthink. There is no reason to think any of them would be better than what we've got now.
2005-08-11 18:51:58
187.   ddger
Is this enough sample to make a case for our best #2 hitter.

Looks like Choi/Perez in a runaway.

2005-08-11 19:00:29
188.   HomeDePo
185 - thanks!
2005-08-11 19:03:20
189.   King of the Hobos
A 3 run 8th propelled the DBacks over the Marlins. A 3 run 7th (and another in the 8th) put the Giants on top 5-3, but the Braves still have 2 innings to play
2005-08-11 19:05:50
190.   rageon
Re: Ron Washington - I'm not entirely convinced that he's the answer, but he's at least an idea. I base it on the following:

- He seems to have loads of respect from the players in Oakland. He seems like a guy that players would want to play for.

- He's been in Oakland, under Billy Beane, which means that he's been in a system in which the front office has a lot of control of what happens on the field. You can't say that about many other teams. So I don't think you would see him flipping out if Depo put down a clear mandate to play a certain player.

- At this point, I hate Jim Tracy so much that I'd take nearly anyone over him.

Washington is going to get a managing gig somewhere, sooner or later. The same way Depo, J.R., and Fuson were/are eventually going to get GM jobs. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. But I'd like to think that he'd be better than most of the tired re-treads that teams keep re-hiring, as if they'll suck worse than the last team they sucked with.

2005-08-11 19:07:53
191.   popup
re baseball group think: there has always been more variety than that, Earl Weaver, the aforementioned college of coaches, etc. Not all new ideas are good ideas. And in baseball there is more than one way to win. If and when Moneyball becomes group think, the game will be poorer.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 19:08:56
192.   HomeDePo
my friend jake thinks that robin ventura could be a great manager... thoughts?
2005-08-11 19:10:51
193.   King of the Hobos
Why are we watching Kenny Lofton dance?
2005-08-11 19:12:04
194.   DaveP
174 - Edwards was sent to AAA
2005-08-11 19:12:56
195.   DaveP
correction. edwards was sent for Cruz. sorry.
2005-08-11 19:16:12
196.   molokai
Plus he's an ex-Dodger.

Agreed. You have to manage based on the team/park you have. Would have been silly for Weaver to wait for the 3 run home run if he'd had the 66 Dodgers lineup.

2005-08-11 19:21:19
197.   DaveP 40-Man Roster shows Alvarez as being on the 15 Day D/L. Any news about this?
2005-08-11 19:23:56
198.   Gen3Blue
Sorry not to be paying attention, but I've been having trouble with Toaster. Whats up with Laroche.
2005-08-11 19:24:38
199.   Steve
186 -- I really don't care what the other 29 teams do. I was kinda hopin' for just one. And when he dumped Mota, I thought we had him. But then he held on to Erickson through July, and now I just don't know anymore.
2005-08-11 19:25:53
200.   King of the Hobos
Our #3 bunted, although that was Bradley taking advantage of Bell, not Tracy
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-11 19:27:43
201.   King of the Hobos
Kent won't get a chance to hit against Lidle. Part of Tracy's genius, Valentin is a monster
2005-08-11 19:33:53
202.   underdog
Since y'all were talking about lineups and box scores from back in the day, sorry if this is off the subject but (ooh! Nice hit Valentin! About time)... anyway, here's the box score for the Dodgers for the final game of the 1988 World Series.

compare that lineup to the current Dodgers roster, and, on paper mind you, 88 looks pretty weak. Hamilton? Alfredo Griffin? Mike Davis? I'm not even sure I remember who Gonzalez was... The key name, though, was Hershiser. Have an ace pitcher and just a few key hits is sometimes all you need.

Sax 2b 4 0 2 0 0 0 3 2
Stubbs 1b 4 1 2 0 0 0 6 0
Hatcher lf 4 2 2 2 0 0 2 0
Gonzalez lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Marshall rf 4 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
Shelby cf 3 0 0 0 1 3 4 0
Davis dh 2 2 1 2 2 0 0 0
Dempsey c 4 0 1 1 0 1 9 1
Hamilton 3b 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Griffin ss 4 0 0 0 0 1 1 2
Hershiser p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Sorry if this has been covered a million times. Just thought it was interesting to compare.

2005-08-11 19:38:13
203.   Steve
Jason Phillips -- RISP God.
2005-08-11 19:38:55
204.   Jim Tracy
132 - are you a seattle fan or a dodger fan?
2005-08-11 19:41:35
205.   underdog
Somebody explain to me why they just pitched to Lieberthal? I'm turning on the Simpsons.
2005-08-11 19:41:52
206.   King of the Hobos
And they pitched to Lieberthal because...? Part of Tracy's master plan?
2005-08-11 19:43:45
207.   King of the Hobos
The Giants won, making the Rockies the only (other) NL losers.
2005-08-11 19:44:48
208.   Steve
Satan was working hard spawning our entire pitching staff.
2005-08-11 19:47:33
209.   dzzrtRatt
Orel Hershiser got the "Bulldog" nickname from Lasorda. At the time Orel was anything but a Bulldog. Early in his career, Lasorda thought Hershiser was talented but too passive, so he gave him the Bulldog nickname as a kind of psychological ploy.

I don't know if that means he'd be a good manager or a bad manager. He's brainy. Maybe Hershiser with Lasorda hiding in the closet would work.

2005-08-11 19:48:29
210.   HomeDePo
how about robin ventura as our manager? he is baseball smart...
2005-08-11 19:53:11
211.   popup
#206, early in the game you don't want to walk guys intentionally unless they are named Ted Williams or Barry Bonds. Part of that baseball group think thing. Should not play infield up or bunt in early innings, unless Sandy is pitching against you.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-11 19:55:47
212.   Marty
I think I'm going to have to bail on the game tonight. Paths of Glory is on TNT. My 2nd favorite Kubrick movie.
2005-08-11 20:09:43
213.   dzzrtRatt
If Phillips makes an out here, I hope the beat media crucifies Tracy. They'd better.
2005-08-11 20:12:48
214.   Steve
Jason Phillips, RISP God.
2005-08-11 20:13:24
215.   King of the Hobos
And Phillips grounds out. He really is a RISP machine today. Anyone see the shot of Tracy during the mound discusion during Phillips' AB? Priceless
2005-08-11 20:17:45
216.   underdog
211: True, on most occasions. But Lieberthal's killed the Dodgers in his career, .325 average in 212 abs, with 14 home runs. >sigh<
2005-08-11 20:18:46
217.   Uncle Miltie
Phillips is a clutch outmaker
2005-08-11 20:27:23
218.   Steve
Jose Cruz has blitzed past exasperating and is making a play for Grabowski-ism, in the space of five at-bats.
2005-08-11 20:41:11
219.   Jim Hitchcock
Are you saying, Steve, that Cruz needs more swizzle in his drizzle?
2005-08-11 20:45:32
220.   Xeifrank
a sac bunt and the laptop goes through the window. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 20:46:02
221.   los angeles dragons
Phillips won't be criticized by FSN he's their darling.

Has anyone else noticed that?

2005-08-11 20:47:34
222.   dzzrtRatt
2005-08-11 20:47:37
223.   Xeifrank
Kent drives in two!!! Yeah! Another lead for our bullpen to blow later on. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 20:47:38
224.   King of the Hobos
Updates from the notes:

The Brazoban thing is true (no surprise). Gagne's explanation:
"You look at his stuff, it's ridiculous. You think he never should get hit like that. But he's a kid learning on the job. I had more innings in A-ball than he's had in his career. I'm not worried about him, there's not a doubt in my mind he'll be fine, as long as he keeps smiling and doesn't take it too seriously and go crazy mentally. He's got way too much talent to worry about it."

I figured he's better to be quoted than Tracy, who said the same thing, but in the usual Tracy way. As for Sanchez:
"I'm not happy about it, because Brazie is my teammate and my brother," said Sanchez. "I'll just try to fill his spot until he gets back."

As for Alvarez:
"I can't break glass," he said of his lack of velocity. "I tried, but I can't do it. I'm not doing anybody any good going out there like that. Give somebody else the chance to do it."
He said he will continue therapy and rehabilitation in hopes of pitching in September, but isn't optimistic.
"I can't even sleep on that side," he said. "The pain is bad. It's just been a real bad year."

Izzy has a sore back

As for Drew, what does this mean?
Outfielder J.D. Drew continues his treatment for a broken left wrist with club trainers at Dodger Stadium, not at his home, as mentioned here.

And woohoo, go Kent!

2005-08-11 20:48:25
225.   alex 7
Late joining here, but noticed we were one Hee Sop at 1st base away from a near-optimal lineup! It's the little things that will thrill me from now on...

I hope we score some runs and give make this lineup look good.

2005-08-11 20:48:50
226.   Gen3Blue
Looks like another episode-can we survive our bullpen!
2005-08-11 20:53:58
227.   dzzrtRatt
225 well, yeah, except for Valentin, Phillips, Werth and Cruz Jr., it's perfect. About the only good news is Robles at short, and that won't last.

We're against a pitcher having a truly cruddy game and the best we can do is score three runs (so far). This lineup is less pathetic than last night's but far from optimal.

But worry not--here comes Phillips! Scully is giving his alibis as we speak. "He could be two for two." So could I, in theory!

2005-08-11 20:54:47
228.   alex 7
inveitably, Cruz Jr. will come through here...
2005-08-11 20:55:30
229.   Fearing Blue
Fun with Jason Phillips statistics:

None On: .614 OPS (.223/.271/.343)
Runners On: .720 OPS (.256/.310/.410)
Runner On First Base (only): .451 OPS (.182/.239/.212)
Runners In Scoring Position: .915 OPS (.311/.359/.556)
Runners In Scoring Position (<2 outs): .823 OPS (.294/.333/.490)
Runners In Scoring Position (2 outs): 1.036 OPS (.333/.395/.641)

My favorite is the .451 OPS with runners just on first base (66 ABs). I'd love to hear Tracy's explanation for that.

2005-08-11 20:56:03
230.   Steve
This AB could be the end of Cruz's Dodger career.
2005-08-11 20:56:38
231.   alex 7
and inevitably, I can't spell.
2005-08-11 20:57:34
232.   King of the Hobos
Cruz is not doing very well...I sense another dfa in his future if he doesnt pick it up
2005-08-11 20:57:46
233.   scareduck
230 - if only.
2005-08-11 20:57:46
234.   alex 7
or inspire.
2005-08-11 20:57:49
235.   Xeifrank
I sure am glad CruzJr brought his fly swatter to LA. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 20:58:04
236.   dzzrtRatt
Why not let Choi hit here, take out Dioner and move St. Jason to catcher?
2005-08-11 20:59:24
237.   Xeifrank
236. Makes too much sense. They're saving Choi for a meaningless at bat. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:00:20
238.   Xeifrank
Glad Kent didn't get hurt on the play at home. I will take the one extra run.
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:00:49
239.   overkill94
Two thoughts:

1. how the hell does bradley not score on valentin's grounder? it was obviously a chopper which would make it a tough play and he had to know the infield wasn't in.

2. Cruz blows, the guy couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think he's gonna set the record for most DFA's in a year.

2005-08-11 21:01:04
240.   Gen3Blue
Kent was close enough to be out
2005-08-11 21:01:07
241.   dzzrtRatt
Good angle for the dirtcam on Kent's slide.
2005-08-11 21:01:07
242.   Jim Hitchcock
236 - By now, that answer should be self evident...
2005-08-11 21:01:12
243.   Gen3Blue
Kent was close enough to be out
2005-08-11 21:03:27
244.   Kayaker7
Wonder what Navarro's BA with RISP is now?
2005-08-11 21:05:58
245.   oldbear
Kent coming home is the right play in that situation regardless because OP was on deck. 4-1 Dodgers.

This is actually a pretty good lineup if Saenz/Choi would be in there for Phillips.

We do have a bunch of players (Valentin, Werth, Robles, Cruz) that will at least make the pitcher work.

Cruz I dont know about him. 6 at bats as a Dodger and 5 strike outs. Check his vision.

2005-08-11 21:06:59
246.   scareduck
245 - has he had a recent concussion?
2005-08-11 21:07:24
247.   Fearing Blue
#244: Navarro w/ RISP (9 ABs): .111/.333/.111

He still has a long way to go to join Phillips as a Clutch Master.

2005-08-11 21:08:17
248.   oldbear
245. I dont know. But can a player lose it as fast as Cruz? He's only 31 years old. He has a .768 OPS this year. However, he also had an 0-37 stretch as well...
2005-08-11 21:11:29
249.   Kayaker7
247 LOL. So, I'm guessing that he was 0-8, with 3 walks, in his first 8 AB with RISP. So, all Navarro needs to do it get a hit in the next three AB with RISP, and he'll pass the Clutch Master (isn't that an auto service chain?).
2005-08-11 21:12:09
250.   oldbear
OP is throwing a very good game against a good hitting team. 6 IP 1 run, 7 K's. 3BB's.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-08-11 21:12:56
251.   Kayaker7
248 If only we can just bench Cruz when he is on a 0-37 slump, and start him once he's past that phase. Kinda like daytrading.
2005-08-11 21:13:34
252.   King of the Hobos
Perez has made 85 pitches. Can he go 3 more innings? If the Dodgers can get this thing out of slam range, I'll feel a lot safer about using the pen
2005-08-11 21:14:51
253.   scareduck
250 - with the way the bullpen has been lately, better hope he makes it a complete game.
2005-08-11 21:16:14
254.   Kayaker7
252 "out of slam range..." The most memorable quote of the 2005 season.
2005-08-11 21:16:19
255.   Steve
So he wears the goggles to protect his identity as the Clutch Master. Clever.
2005-08-11 21:17:08
256.   King of the Hobos
What happens if Izzy is DLed and we go a win streak? Not that I expect that to happen, but would Tracy destroy a good thing if given the chance?
2005-08-11 21:19:42
257.   Kayaker7
256 Izturis will lead off as soon as he gets back in the lineup.
2005-08-11 21:19:46
258.   Benaiah
247 - FB! How are you? You haven't been around as much lately, what with the SABR convention and what not. Bob said you had a chat with Rob Neyer about the Dodgers, how did that go?
2005-08-11 21:20:10
259.   Steve
Jayson Werth 5 for 7 in SB.
Speedy Izturis - 7 for 15
2005-08-11 21:23:31
260.   Kayaker7
259 Speedy Izturis? Isn't that a cartoon character?
2005-08-11 21:24:38
261.   Xeifrank
Congrats to Colorado Blue for taking the Over of 6 IPs to win the Over/Under Challenge championship tonight. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:24:47
262.   King of the Hobos
Perez's domination of Howard, payback or Howard preparing for another crushing blow?

Nice play by Valentin

2005-08-11 21:25:03
263.   Steve
If there is a cartoon character that can't hit and whose defense is overrated.
2005-08-11 21:25:13
264.   oldbear
One can only hope that JP/Izzy both go on the DL in the coming days.
2005-08-11 21:25:57
265.   King of the Hobos
263 Does the team opposing Bugs Bunny qualify?
2005-08-11 21:26:38
266.   oldbear
Our bullpen is do for some regressing to the mean innings. So I'd expect Braz and Schmoll to be lights out over the next 2 weeks.
2005-08-11 21:27:25
267.   Uncle Miltie
Navarro's OBP % is approaching Clutch Outmaker's SLG %.
2005-08-11 21:27:44
268.   Steve
The Gashouse Gorillas scored 95 runs in a game. A team of 9 Izturises couldn't score 95 runs in a season.
2005-08-11 21:28:44
269.   King of the Hobos
That's the deepest fly ball I've seen Valentin hit since May.
2005-08-11 21:29:12
270.   oldbear
Valentin comes close but not enough.
2005-08-11 21:29:19
271.   Xeifrank
A win tonight puts our GBMGLWSD back to 1. Which I use as a guage for whether to be in denial or acceptance. Any number of 1 or less = denial for me. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:29:39
272.   Xeifrank
Phillips up with nobody on base = another sure out. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:30:21
273.   Xeifrank
My god! Grabowski principle?? A home run to Phillips without a man in scoring position? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:30:45
274.   Steve
This will never end.
2005-08-11 21:30:49
275.   King of the Hobos
Phillips didn't need to do that. Save an injury, he's now the official starting 1B for August
2005-08-11 21:30:55
276.   oldbear
Dammit JP... Now he's in the lineup for another month.
2005-08-11 21:30:55
277.   rageon
I hate it when Phillips does something good.
2005-08-11 21:30:58
278.   Jim Hitchcock
264 - Credit due to Oldbear on that one :)
2005-08-11 21:30:58
279.   Kayaker7
264 If only Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez were on the mound, it would only take two pitches.
2005-08-11 21:31:23
280.   scareduck
269, 270 - Speaking of flyballs... Jason Phillips will now get to start at 1B for the rest of the season. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but.
2005-08-11 21:32:11
281.   Kayaker7
Where is Roger when you need him.
2005-08-11 21:32:38
282.   Uncle Miltie
That was not a clutch home run
2005-08-11 21:32:41
283.   oldbear
Especially in a game in which his HR doesnt mean much.
2005-08-11 21:32:50
284.   Steve
Now, that home run doesn't count right? Because it was off of Aaron Fultz and with the bases empty? Right, Choi haters?
2005-08-11 21:33:55
285.   Uncle Miltie
Perez is still pitching?
2005-08-11 21:33:56
286.   Xeifrank
I think I've seen enough of CruzJr for the rest of the season. His ineptness reminds me of Nokamura early in the season. Not only bad results in a small sample size, but he just looks awful and outmatched at this level. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:34:05
287.   dzzrtRatt
A lot of good solo homers did Choi.
2005-08-11 21:34:16
288.   oldbear
I keep thinking if we win 10 games in row, and the Padres go 5-5, were right back in it... Denial is oh so sweet.
2005-08-11 21:34:54
289.   Xeifrank
So is anyone pumping gas down in the bullpen? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:35:30
290.   Steve
So ends the illustrious Dodger career of Jose Cruz Jr., soon to possibly replace Choi as the First Bad Left-Handed Bat Off The Bench. We hardly knew ye...which doesn't appear to be such a bad thing.
2005-08-11 21:36:31
291.   Xeifrank
My god, now Phillips does it with the glove. He can do it all. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:36:40
292.   King of the Hobos
Valentin has looked very good today at 3B. And he's been more clutch than Phillips. If he can at least take pitches and walk a lot, I'll let him stay
2005-08-11 21:36:59
293.   scareduck
Charlie Steiner lays it on thick for Phillips defensive play.

Phillips will start next year.

2005-08-11 21:37:28
294.   oldbear
Just looked it up. JP is OPS'ing around .800 against LHP.

So maybe he does have a role. As the platoon partner with Navarro, against LHP.

Saenz playing 1st of course against LHP.

2005-08-11 21:37:40
295.   Xeifrank
Maybe CruzJr can be a first... and be the player to be named later in his own trade.
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:38:03
296.   Benaiah
290 - Yeah, I have to think that was enough for Tracy. Choi got benched for less last year, though I guess we were in a division race.
2005-08-11 21:38:42
297.   Xeifrank
Looks like Duaner is filling up his gas can in the bullpen. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:39:52
298.   Steve
That was not a Professional At-Bat(TM)

293 -- This is a nightmare.

2005-08-11 21:40:02
299.   scareduck
Dodgers need about infinity insurance runs to protect against the back-to-back-to-back grand slams the Phils will hit against our pen.
2005-08-11 21:40:13
300.   oldbear
OP has owned the Phillies this year. Both tonite and in the game in Philly he pitched.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-08-11 21:40:41
301.   Xeifrank
If Jason Phillips were a smurf he'd be Savvy Smurf. If Jason Phillips was a Spice Girl he'd be the 2nd ugliest one. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:41:16
302.   Gen3Blue
Why not revert to about 80% of baseball history, when you would never sit a starting picture who was doing well late in the game.
2005-08-11 21:41:25
303.   Fearing Blue
#258: Hi Benaiah. I have been doing well though much busier than usual. I went to the SABR Convention then came back to an apartment in Cambridge filled with moving boxes. Now that we're finally settled in, my wife and I are heading out for a friend's wedding this weekend. Talking to Neyer was fun. I was wearing my Dodgers hat, so he discussed how bad the Dodgers and Nationals lineups were at a game he attended in Washington. I mentioned my frustration that the Dodgers only play 3 of their best 7 hitters, and he referenced the injuries. I then explained that the bigger problem was Tracy not playing 3 of the healthy hitters (Saenz, Choi, and Perez) and choosing to play Phillips at first base. I also pointed out that Choi really doesn't strike out that much as a %-age of his PAs due to the walks (in his article he had mentioned Choi not starting due to strikeouts). I believe Bob referred to it as a "lengthy conversation", though my recollection is that the entire exchange lasted about 30 seconds. I also asked everyone at the table who they thought the prospective sabermetric managers would be. Unfortunately, nobody really had any ideas though they all seemed intrigued by the Orel Hershiser suggestion.

SABR Plug: This was my first convention and I had a great time. I would definitely recommend it to anyone who is considering joining. The convention next year will be in Seattle. My favorite moment was discussing concerns about a poster presentation with the man standing next to me before realizing that I had his book in my hotel room (Michael Schell's "Baseball's All-Time Best Sluggers"). It was also very nice to join Bob T for a ballgame watching Randy Johnson get crushed (6 Runs in 4 IP).

2005-08-11 21:41:28
304.   King of the Hobos
Sanchez has pitched in both of the last 2 games, including 2 innings yesterday. If we want him as our closer, it might be best not to use him in this non-save situation
2005-08-11 21:41:32
305.   Kayaker7
The Phils are within slam range.
2005-08-11 21:42:41
306.   Xeifrank
Looks like Odalis is done after 8 innings. Only question remaining is whether Duaner will be bringing unleaded or diesel out to the mound. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:43:01
307.   oldbear
Why bring in Repko for Cruz? Cruz is the better defensive OF'er.
2005-08-11 21:44:19
308.   King of the Hobos
It sure would be nice for Navarro to start hitting. He just needs some XBHs, and some hits that aren't just luck

Good job Vin, Chan Ho...

2005-08-11 21:44:57
309.   Kayaker7
Odalis is batting?
2005-08-11 21:45:03
310.   Benaiah
303 - Sounds like good times. Enjoy the wedding and moving and what not, but don't think we have forgotten about the Minor League Recap. My knownledge of the Dodger's minor league system is shrinking with every passing day you are busy.
2005-08-11 21:45:23
311.   King of the Hobos
And Choi just got demoted to last bat off the bench
2005-08-11 21:45:31
312.   Xeifrank
haha! Double play for Choi. This night cements Phillips at 1b. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:45:37
313.   Kayaker7
Nah...false alarm, from Yahoo! sports.
2005-08-11 21:46:22
314.   oldbear
This is a Jim Tracy wet dream. JP homers, and Choi with the GIDP.
2005-08-11 21:46:45
315.   Steve
Costliest two innings in Dodger history.
2005-08-11 21:47:03
316.   Kayaker7
This is the worst feeling I've had from a Dodger win...ever.
2005-08-11 21:47:12
317.   Xeifrank
303. What did he say when you mentioned all that stuff about Choi? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:47:58
318.   Xeifrank
If the leadoff man gets on, we're in trouble. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:49:15
319.   oldbear
Tracy to Duaner "Just hold them to 3 runs or less in this inning"
2005-08-11 21:50:09
320.   Fearing Blue
#303: As I recall, he just nodded, either in agreement or in an effort to change the topic :).
2005-08-11 21:50:36
321.   Benaiah
I have to say that I was impressed by Duaner saying that he didn't want Yhency's job because he was a teammate and a brother. Very classy move in a me first generation. Even if it is just talk, kind words are all he could off in that situation.

Gagne also has some nice words for him. This season has been so brutal that I am kind of happy that Yhency has struggled since it might serve to motivate him to develop an offspead pitch or some movement on his fastball.

2005-08-11 21:50:49
322.   King of the Hobos
Sanchez gets lucky and is 1/3 of the way to our first August perfect relief inning
2005-08-11 21:51:35
323.   Xeifrank
320. Sounds like a fun convention. Can anyone go to it, or do you have to be some kind of member? vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:52:05
324.   oldbear
316. Tonite was at least refreshing to NOT see Robles/Izturis at the top of the lineup. I did like that.
2005-08-11 21:52:54
325.   Xeifrank
Glad we got that 5th run! vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:53:45
326.   King of the Hobos
I'm speechless. Good job Sanchez, a perfect relief inning
2005-08-11 21:54:06
327.   oldbear
And so it begins. Tonite starts the Dodgers run to back to back NL West titles.
2005-08-11 21:54:09
328.   Benaiah
325 - To save Duaner from the temptation to blow a save?
2005-08-11 21:54:29
329.   Xeifrank
Our GBMGLWSD is down to 1. Still in denial here. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:54:35
330.   scareduck
Dodgers win? Just another damned impediment from a first-overall draft pick.
2005-08-11 21:55:12
331.   scareduck
2005-08-11 21:55:17
332.   Kayaker7
Yeah, the Dodgers are only 7 games back...
2005-08-11 21:56:10
333.   Xeifrank
If Phillips is going to hit like that Tracy should probably move him up to 3rd or 4th in the lineup. He can already kill the ball with RISP, and now he is a HR monster with the bases empty. The guy is a freakin machine! vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:56:43
334.   Xeifrank
331. Games back minus games left with san diego. :) vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:56:52
335.   Jim Hitchcock
I'm guessing the reason Kent was shaking his head `no' after the game was in response to an interview request...
2005-08-11 21:57:01
336.   King of the Hobos
Navarro now has his avg (.286) and OBP (.387) in respectable range. He just needs to something about his ISO (an impressive .000)
2005-08-11 21:57:29
337.   Xeifrank
334. Also known as the "denial factor"
vr, Xei
2005-08-11 21:58:16
338.   Fearing Blue
#323: Anyone can register to go. Check out Goodnight all. Nice pitching Duaner!
2005-08-11 21:58:39
339.   Steve
I've zoomed past acceptance to "sad when we win"
2005-08-11 22:00:49
340.   Xeifrank
Now we need to beat up on the banged up Mets. vr, Xei
2005-08-11 22:00:52
341.   oldbear
Was Izzy just a scratch for tonite, or is there a chance he might go on the DL?
2005-08-11 22:01:36
342.   King of the Hobos
Now that we've won a game, can we start our first win streak in a long time? As long as Phillips is willing to destroy his former team for trading him, I'm fine with him starting. The Mets figure to be starting Offerman at first, and they're down 2 allstar OFs, and if there's any lingering effects from Floyd's HBP...
2005-08-11 22:02:24
343.   King of the Hobos
341 Hard to say. He woke up with a sore back, could go either way
2005-08-11 22:02:52
344.   oldbear
336. Navarro looks like a Jason Kendall to me. Good batting eye, perhaps gap power, but not much HR power.

I dont know really care about Navarro's ISO as long as he walks a ton. And he's been doing that.

If Navarro is Jason Kendall lite, I'll take it.

2005-08-11 22:03:17
345.   Kayaker7
Hey oldbear, what is up with you and Billy in the Dodger forum. He seems to have a vendetta.
2005-08-11 22:06:30
346.   oldbear
345. I dont know. I dont like posting there anymore because there's just not a lot of smart baseball discussion.

Everyone there hates DePo and also loves Izturis. So its sort of hard to argue with posters that live in their own realities (ignore stats).

2005-08-11 22:07:24
347.   rageon
344 Is it possible to actually be Kendall-Lite? He of the zero home runs.
2005-08-11 22:08:41
348.   Kayaker7
346 Yeah, know what you mean. I kept on deleting cookies and gave Billy a bunch of 1 ratings on his posts, and gave you a bunch of 5's. He thought you had a bunch of sock puppets. LOL.
2005-08-11 22:09:49
349.   King of the Hobos
Sanchez has now joined Lowe, Penny, and Dessens as the only active Dodgers pitchers with an ERA under 4.00

Lowe 166.1 IP, 22 HRs, 33 BBs, 102 Ks
Weaver 163.1 Ip, 22 HRs, 33 BBs, 102 Ks

Weaver destroys Lowe in the HBP department 11 to 3 though

2005-08-11 22:10:10
350.   Steve
Of course, OBP is three times more important than slugging, IIRC.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-08-11 22:10:56
351.   Steve
Who is this Dessens fellow and why do you claim he is a Dodger?
2005-08-11 22:40:35
352.   Jon Weisman
So, if you read the newest Dodger notebook in the Times, "Ghame Over" is now just mentioned nonchalantly - an accepted part of the lingo.
2005-08-11 23:11:55
353.   Bob Timmermann

Miss one game and my brief contribution to Dodger nickname history is consigned to the dustbin.

2005-08-11 23:18:50
354.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't see the reference to "Ghame Over" in the Times. Just "Game Over".
2005-08-12 07:34:07
355.   Jon Weisman
The Times changed it overnight. It was the lead to Gutierrez's notebook.
2005-08-12 09:58:43
356.   Yakface
Did anyone else notice Duaners intro song was Satisfaction by Devo? Kinda odd.... I try and I try and I try try try try try try but i cant get no satisfaction......

Dirty Sanchez.

2005-08-12 10:51:46
357.   Jim Hitchcock
We are not Duaner, we are Devo?

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