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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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August 14 Open Chat
2005-08-14 10:48
by Jon Weisman
Comments (218)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-14 11:01:00
1.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

August 14, 1907

Despite playing at home against the third place team in the National League, the New York Times didn't even bother to send a reporter out to Brooklyn's Washington Park to watch the locals fall to the Pittsburg (during it's no "h" at the end period) Pirates, 8-0. Brooklyn's record fell to 48-56 and they were stuck in fifth place, 27 ½ games behind the Cubs who were headed for their second straight runaway title.

Brooklyn starter Harry McIntire was hit often, giving up 10 hits, and hurt by five errors behind him. He gave up four runs in the fourth and his teammates could do nothing off of Pirates starter Sam Leever. McIntire went the distance nonetheless, striking out none and walking five.

Thanks to some rainouts, Brooklyn was able to stay in fifth place at the end of the year. The Dodgers finished 65-83 and 40 games behind the Cubs. Cincinnati was 66-87. The Cubs were 107-46 and won the pennant by 17 games over the Pirates and went on to win their first World Series.

The Dodgers did not have much to offer on offense. Second baseman Whitey Alperman led the NL with 16 triples, but he also had the second lowest OBP of NL regulars at .266. Outfielder Harry Lumley was second in the league in homers with 9. First baseman Tim Jordan led in batting average at .274. The team batted just .232. They would actually be worse the next year and would bat a franchise low .213 as a team.

The best hope for the future was rookie southpaw pitcher Nap Rucker. The 22-year old Georgian broke into the majors with a 15-13 and a 2.06 ERA. He would go on to win 134 games (and lose 134 too) in 10 seasons in Brooklyn.

Manager Patsy Donovan, in his second year in charge in Brooklyn, had little to work with, little hope for improvement, and he also knew that although Brooklyn might have been popular in its own borough, the Dodgers were a mere afterthought to the rest of the baseball world.

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-08-14 11:04:35
2.   Bob Timmermann
Ron Gant on TBS today:

"I don't see how Arizona with their lineup isn't in first place."

Look harder, Ron.

2005-08-14 11:07:43
3.   King of the Hobos
Braves just took a 5-3 lead over the DBacks in the third, and they are crushing the ball, still no outs, men on the corners
The Marlins have a 2-0 lead over the Giants in the fourth
2005-08-14 11:09:13
4.   King of the Hobos
I should have waited to update the scores. Francouer put a pitch down and in over the left field wall, 8-3 Braves, still no one out, Vazquez is getting hammered
2005-08-14 11:09:14
5.   Bob Timmermann
8-3 Braves.
2005-08-14 11:10:25
6.   King of the Hobos
And Langerhans goes back to back, 9-3 Braves. no more updates until the end of the inning, I promise...
2005-08-14 11:15:44
7.   popup
Thanks Bob. Anyway you or Jon could make all of your RDGCs from this year available in one central spot? They have been an excellent feature on this site.

I am off to watch a Triple A doubleheader in Tacoma. Later this week Vegas will be in town

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-14 11:18:13
8.   Bob Timmermann
That would be up to Jon. It might be a nice offseason thing. I'd want to go back and re-edit them.
2005-08-14 11:21:03
9.   Bob Timmermann
I think I'll watch some of Game 1 of the KC-Detroit doubleheader for a while.

That's baseball at its finest.

In other baseball news, Kirk Rueter, aka Baseball's Luckiest Pitcher, is lucky no more. He was designated for assignment by the Giants today.

2005-08-14 11:22:02
10.   werthgagne31
First time posting, I know some of you, like king of the hobos and oldbear.
Here are some of my opinions, to let you know a little about me.
I can't stand tracy for numerous reasons.
Izturis is overrated and hurts the team batting at the top of the order, a matter of fact he doesn't fit on this team.
Phillips is only a backup catcher if that, hopefully my boy martin gets ready.
Robles is only a backup infielder.
Antonio perez should be playing everyday.
Choi should be playing everyday, considering our current roster.
Ledee should be playing everyday even when drew returns, which means no playing time for my boy werth, but I think werth is playing injured which is making him not produce.
Cararra should not be on this team, either osoria or kuo should replace him.
Sanchez should only be on this team because of the lack of pitching depth in the minors that is ready for a call up, meaning I think only osoria and kuo are available in the minors right now.
Dessens is underused, tracy has him as a long reliever, and in my opinion sanchez should be used in long relief.
Long relief is for meaningless games, blowouts and is meant for your worst reliever.
If I had my way, this is how I would have the team:

Starting rotation as is.

Bullpen- schmoll,dessens,broxton,brazoban,osoria,kuo, and sanchez in long relief (sanchez traded when gagne returns next season).

7 man bullpen which means repko gets sent down.

Drew isn't going to return till rosters expand, so no send down when drew returns.

Starting lineup everyday without drew

Perez ss
Choi 1b
Bradley of
Kent 2b
Ledee of
Seanz 3b (robles when seanz needs days off, but batting 7th)
Werth of (but batting 6th when robles plays)
Navarro c

Starting lineup when drew returns

Perez ss
Choi 1b
Drew of
Kent 2b
Bradley of
Ledee of
Seanz 3b (robles when seanz needs days off)
Navarro c

Valentin (gone after this season)
Cruz (gone after this season)
Izturis (needs to be traded in the offseason)
Phillips (I wish martin was ready)
Werth benched when drew returns
And whoever is not playing at 3b between seanz and robles

2005-08-14 11:29:25
11.   Eric Enders
I like how Steve Henson, in today's Dodger notes, accidentally called Oscar Robles a low-level mafia hitman.

"Robles, a contract hitter with limited power, was batting third because Milton Bradley was given the day off..."

2005-08-14 11:30:54
12.   Bob Timmermann
Robles only tries to murder people at close range.
2005-08-14 11:41:27
13.   Jon Weisman
1 On a recent Sunday Dodger Dugout, Vin narrated a long feature on the Pittsburgh h. The U.S. national body in charge of place names wanted all towns in the country to officially drop the h, but the Pittsburghers successfully resisted. The national press would use the h, but the local press often wouldn't. Uniforms might have been another story, but ultimately, the pro-h crowd won out. And I'm happy for them.
2005-08-14 11:42:12
14.   Jon Weisman
7. 8 I'll discuss with Bob.
2005-08-14 11:46:32
15.   Eric Enders
This page will tell you all you ever wanted to know about the H in Pittsburgh:

2005-08-14 11:46:42
16.   King of the Hobos
Bruney isn't helping Arizona, he walked 4 and hit 2 before geting out of the 4th inning somehow, 11-3 Braves

Hennessey had the bases loaded and then proceeded to hit and walk 2 runs in, 4-0 Marlins

Looks like another good day for the NL East

2005-08-14 11:48:21
17.   Bob Timmermann
According to Baseball Hall of Fame's uniform database, the Pirates just had a "P" on their uniforms in that era.

They didn't "Pittsburgh" on a uniform until 1942.

The link for the database is:

(Note can be habit-forming)

2005-08-14 11:48:52
18.   Steelyeri
Today's lineups are out



Besides Izzy leading off, I don't think it's too bad. If you could switch perez to lead off and bat izzy 8th it would actually be a decent lineup.

2005-08-14 11:49:13
19.   werthgagne31
today's lineup
izturis ss
robles 3b
bradley cf
seanz 1b
ledee rf
perez 2b
werth lf
navarro c

pretty good lineup (considering its tracy) after izturis and robles.

2005-08-14 11:50:57
20.   Bob Timmermann
Oh no, not Gerald Williams! He kills us.

I'm glad that Ramon Castro is sitting it out and we get that Piazza guy instead.

2005-08-14 11:54:14
21.   Eric Enders
Re the uniforms, according to Marc Okkonen's "Baseball Uniforms of the 20th Century," the word "Pittsburg(h)" didn't appear on the Pirates uniforms until 1942, by which time the spelling issue had long since been resolved.

However, this is contradicted by the famed Honus Wagner baseball card, printed in 1909, which clearly shows Wagner wearing a jersey with the city name. However, the picture is cropped so as to make it impossible to tell whether there's an "H" on the end.

2005-08-14 11:58:17
22.   Bob Timmermann
Wasn't it possible that the Wagner card used a photo of a jacket or some alternate uniform?

Maybe the Pirates were ahead of the curve in third jerseys?

2005-08-14 12:00:09
23.   Jim Hitchcock
So...this is getting a little confusing. Should we now refer to the good burghers of Germany as good burgers?
2005-08-14 12:00:19
24.   werthgagne31
too bad this good lineup today (except izturis and robles) is against a very good pitcher (pedro).
if pedro pitches great against guys like ledee and werth, tracy will trot out repko and cruz for awhile.
2005-08-14 12:02:36
25.   Eric Enders
22 -- I don't know, Bob, you can do a Google image search on Wagner and see what you think. To me it pretty clearly looks like a normal jersey.
2005-08-14 12:07:12
26.   Bob Timmermann

These people didn't get the H back.

2005-08-14 12:12:50
27.   Eric Enders

The card at the above link shows a pretty clear image of a Pittsburg jersey, no "H," which seems strange. If Pittsburghers really preferred the H, you'd think their baseball team would have used it too.

However, the plot thickens. This card:

...makes it pretty obvious that the "Pittsburg" on the jerseys was stenciled on later by the baseball card artist, and was not actually on the uniform. Note the lack of folds and creases in the lettering, as well as the mistake of superimposing a letter over one of the buttons.

2005-08-14 12:14:24
28.   Eric Enders
"Should we now refer to the good burghers of Germany as good burgers?"

Well, it's better than telling them you're a jelly doughnut.

2005-08-14 12:21:28
29.   Marty
My father was from Pittsburgh. He wanted to get the h out of Pittsburgh so bad he joined the marines when he was 17.
2005-08-14 12:21:55
30.   willhite
I guess I'm one of the few people who doesn't think we should get rid of Izzy, but he should absolutely be hitting 8th.

What about putting Navarro in the 2 spot. His OBP is over .400 (although admittedly a small sample size).

Anyone know Kent's numbers against Pedro? Are they especially bad or has Tracy already given up on a win today and decided he needs to rest Kent sometime so it might as well be when a win isn't likely?

2005-08-14 12:24:41
31.   Eric Enders
29 -- that was very good.

I'm also on the "keep Izturis" bandwagon. We're still plugging away even though we've lost three wheels and most of the passengers.

2005-08-14 12:24:50
32.   b1ued0dger
Kent is 4/29 with 1 HR againts Pedro.
2005-08-14 12:27:49
33.   willhite
32 -

At 4/29 it seems like a good day to give Perez some playing time.

2005-08-14 12:31:46
34.   Eric Enders
"4/29 it seems like a good day to give Perez some playing time."

Seems like this has been Tracy's philosophy too... only play Perez every April 29th.

2005-08-14 12:34:39
35.   b1ued0dger
Dodger Lineup vs. Pedro
Izturis 1/6
Robles 0/3 1BB
Bradley 3/7 2BB
Saenz 4/15
Ledee 4/23
Perez Never faced him
Werth 1/3
Navarro Never faced him
2005-08-14 12:35:32
36.   willhite
34 -
given a choice he's probably rather make it Feb 29th.
2005-08-14 12:38:42
37.   King of the Hobos
You all think Izzy leaading off is bad? Today's BoSox/ChiSox game features leadoff hitters with .552 and .589 OPS's respectively (Cora and Timo Perez). I know this isn't routine, but 2 first place teams are using garbage to leadoff their line up...
2005-08-14 12:41:12
38.   werthgagne31
hasn't tracy benched a guy for being 1/6 against a certain pitcher,like choi,perez,ledee,seanz take your pick.
such a double standard for izturis
2005-08-14 12:42:05
39.   Eric Enders
#37 is exhibit 1,234,556 that simply hiring a new manager won't eliminate the kinds of stupid decisions Tracy makes. It'll simply be an opportunity for a different person to make those same stupid decisions.
2005-08-14 12:47:08
40.   ddger
No Phillips in the lineup? Has Tracy finally seen the light? I would have expected him to hit 4th and start at 1st after yesterday's lineup.
2005-08-14 12:51:00
41.   King of the Hobos
40 Saenz has 2 homers against Pedro. The Dodgers team as a whole has 4 homers against him, so Saenz makes sense, even to Tracy. The other 2 are Kent and Cruz, both of whom are doing terrible against Pedro, they just have seen so much that they've launched a homer off him
2005-08-14 12:51:45
42.   Bob Timmermann
I've also seen Ozzie Guillen have Timo Perez bat 5th. The presence of Timo Perez on the White Sox roster makes sense only when you realize that Ozzie Guillen is the manager and I think he must have taken a couple of fast balls to the head during his career.

Another note, before I left for work, the Yankees were rallying in the bottom of the fifth against Texas and took the lead, but the inning wasn't over yet and it was raining hard. Michael Kay and Jim Kaat kept imploring the Yankees to make the final out so the game would be official.

Despite the fact that the game already was official.

2005-08-14 12:52:19
43.   Linkmeister
"Well, it's better than telling them you're a jelly doughnut."

That was one of those times when context is everything.

2005-08-14 12:56:10
44.   gcrl
isn't the requirement for an official game 5 innings or 4.5 if the home team is ahead?
2005-08-14 12:57:55
45.   dzzrtRatt
I had a long drive yesterday that allowed me to hear most of the Padre/Phillies game with that motormouth Ted Lightner broadcasting. It was quite a game, aesthetically. Scoreless for a long time, Astacio (!) pitching brilliantly against Padilla, who was wild, but didn't succumb. Phils score finally on a throw that would've gotten Burrell if it hadn't hit him, Pads have a chance to go ahead but Loretta's cut down on a Rollins relay. Tied 1-1 in the ninth, and the Padres bring in Hoffman. Lightner goes on and on: "Trevor's not as good in non-save situations"--a topic that's been discussed much here with respect to both Yhency and Gagne. In fact, Lightner and his partner Flannery talked about how stupid the Dodgers were for demoting Yhency from the closer role, since his numbers as a closer are good, but his numbers otherwise are not. Anyway, Hoffman goes and proves Lightner's point, allowing several hits and four runs, which pretty much sealed the game.

A good, tense ballgame, the kind that Scully calls masterfully, although I guess you'll never get to hear him do it on a long drive again unless you have cable TV in your car. I'd rather hear Charlie Steiner or even Rick Monday than Lightner who's like your most annoying relative.

2005-08-14 12:58:21
46.   Eric Enders

(c) If a game is called, it is a regulation game: (1) If five innings have been completed; (2) If the home team has scored more runs in four or four and a fraction half innings than the visiting team has scored in five completed half innings; (3) If the home team scores one or more runs in its half of the fifth inning to tie the score. (d) If each team has the same number of runs when the game ends, the umpire shall declare it a "Tie Game." (e) If a game is called before it has become a regulation game, the umpire shall declare it "No Game." (f) Rain checks will not be honored for any regulation or suspended game which has progressed to or beyond a point of play described in 4.10(c) "

2005-08-14 13:00:49
47.   Bob Timmermann
I'm guessing that since millions of Berlin residents cheered Kennedy's speech, they figured it out.

The LA Times correspondent who covered that speech was named Sterling Slappey.

2005-08-14 13:01:51
48.   Yakface
Man on second 1 out ground ball to the short stop does he throw it to first or third? If he was on the dodgers the out would be made at first but Alex Cora of the Red Sox gets the lead runner at third, a play that for some reason the Dodgers arent making this year.
2005-08-14 13:03:10
49.   dzzrtRatt
37 Izzy plays because (usually) his defense is stellar, and Tracy values offense and defense equally. (I think that's why Choi doesn't play.) Tracy leads off with Izzy because he conforms to the stereotype of a leadoff hitter -- a middle infielder with a Latino name who doesn't hit home runs sounds like the kind of guy who should be leading off, right? I mean, who else are you gonna lead off?
2005-08-14 13:04:21
50.   Linkmeister
48 If the ball is hit sharply, the runner on second shouldn't be running on a ball hit in front of him anyway.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-14 13:04:40
51.   Eric Enders
48 -- Those situations are pretty rare, since only a brain-dead runner would try to advance to 3rd anyway.

Who was it in this case?

2005-08-14 13:05:03
52.   Bob Timmermann
Ted Leitner is the biggest blot upon the game of baseball since the Lords of Baseball came up with the idiotic idea of placing a team in San Diego.
2005-08-14 13:06:12
53.   Bob Timmermann
The White Sox are playing Boston today. They've never met an out on the bases they didn't like.
It's Smartball.
2005-08-14 13:07:47
54.   Bob Timmermann
For the record, the brain dead runner was Chris Widger.
2005-08-14 13:08:18
55.   ddger
Is Izzy leading off to justify giving him 10M contract? We might have to accept the fact that he is a good defensive SS battting 8th and that he will never be a leadoff hitter.
2005-08-14 13:08:35
56.   Eric Enders
"I mean, who else are you gonna lead off?"

This is a point that must be emphasized. Yes, leading off Izturis is kinda dumb, but there's every reason to believe that if Tracy had a genuinely good leadoff option, he'd be using it.

Everyone here seems to acknowledge that lineup construction doesn't really matter, but nonetheless there is endless huffing and puffing about it. If it doesn't matter, why get so bent out of shape over it?

2005-08-14 13:09:44
57.   gcrl
thanks, eric. the "kissing your sister" clause.

btw, i have a copy of your "ballparks then and now". nicely done. you note that the twinkies have been lobbying for a new park for some time - it looks like it's now or never with the legislature not taking any action this past session. new vikings ownership is committed to a new stadium in the northern suburbs, but the u of m and twins haven't had much luck, despite hennepin county putting up some money for a new dowtown twins stadium. the site of the new twins stadium would be downwind from the city of mpls's trash incinerator, which would play well on those humid afternoon games.

2005-08-14 13:15:00
58.   King of the Hobos
If Wright had the speed of Phillips, he's out by 10 feet
2005-08-14 13:17:16
59.   Eric Enders
BTW, I wonder if Cars for Causes has ever considered the potentially negative impact Rick Monday's endorsement could have on their business?
2005-08-14 13:20:47
60.   Jim Hitchcock
Heck of a throw.

If it doesn't matter, why get so bent out of shape over it?

My guess is that it's used around here to add weight to the posters convictions that Tracy is the devil incarnate.

Better get used to it, though. I'm no Tracy apologist, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts Tracy will be here net year.

2005-08-14 13:23:46
61.   gcrl
frank robinson has the good sense to bat christian guzman 8th, although he also has the bad sense to play guzman every day.
2005-08-14 13:26:51
62.   Odysseus
60 well when you read things on wikipedia like "Jim Tracy is one of the most creative managers ever," and he is for some reason worshipped by know-nothings like Plaschke and the ESPN idiot brigade, and he consistently makes in-game decisions that cost the game or contribute to it significantly, every single drop in the bucket just continually infuriates
2005-08-14 13:27:12
63.   gcrl
i wonder if piazza wants his number back from penny.

6 or 7 years from now, 31 will be retired by the dodgers.

2005-08-14 13:30:51
64.   Eric Enders
63 - I dunno about that. With the exception of Gilliam, all the retired numbers have been guys who went into the HOF as Dodgers. Piazza probably won't. He may be an interesting test case when the time comes.
2005-08-14 13:31:12
65.   Louis in SF
Article in the Daily News either from Saturday or Sunday in commneting on the woes of the Dodger bullpen of late, DePodesta and I believe everyone's favorite Tracy said that the pressure innings that the bullpen has been getting lately will serve them well and they should be better has the season progresses and into next year. If this is true on any level, perhaps we will finally see some at bats other than pinch hitting appearances for Choi. As far Izturis goes there is no question his second half, especially after his prolonged injury he has not performed as well. A move down in the line-up might be in order, but I do believe by the end of the season Cesar will return to what he really is about a 320-330 OPS and a great glove. If you are expecting more your going to be upset.
2005-08-14 13:36:07
66.   Jim Hitchcock
Last words of a dollies head substituting for a baseball on it's way to home plate:

"Oh, nooooo...."

2005-08-14 13:37:04
67.   Eric Enders
I hope it was one of those Cabbage Patch Kids. Those things deserved to die anyway.
2005-08-14 13:38:21
68.   Odysseus
re: the discussion about "pressure situations" and batters

2005-08-14 13:41:43
69.   Eric Enders
Martinez is getting squeezed on the strike zone so far.

Anybody noticed that today's pitching matchup features the centerpieces of the 2 most controversial trades in LA history?

2005-08-14 13:42:38
70.   Odysseus
that might be old news. this one might be too, on baserunning. One interesting thing is that some players with average speed (Adrian Beltre is an example) can be very bad baserunners

2005-08-14 13:51:10
71.   Bob Timmermann

It happens everywhere.

Posted by Seo Good (AJM) on August 14, 2005 at 01:49 PM (#1545670)

I really hate that Randolph continues to bat Cairo in the 2 hole.

2005-08-14 14:00:00
72.   Jim Hitchcock
Hmmm. Padres, D-rays, Marlins?
2005-08-14 14:00:16
73.   jpeace
" if Tracy had a genuinely good leadoff option, he'd be using it."

If Iz isn't the leadoff guy, I'm sure Bradley could do a fine job of it. The dodgers don't have anyone that could steal bases at a high percentage anyways. If i'm not mistaken, Bradley has "leadoff experience".

2005-08-14 14:01:40
74.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, wait...current. Nationals.
2005-08-14 14:03:00
75.   Bob Timmermann

Since I'm not watching, I'm assuming Jim is coming up with the answer to the AFLAC trivia question.

2005-08-14 14:04:30
76.   gcrl
i think leiter threw one for the fish a few years back. burnett, too.
2005-08-14 14:05:22
77.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, I doubt I'm actually coming up with the answer. Question was name the three current franchises without a no hitter.
2005-08-14 14:06:09
78.   Bob Timmermann
If its teams without a no-hitter, it's the Mets, Padres, Devil Rays, and Rockies.

The Marlins have three: Leiter, Brown, and Burnett.

2005-08-14 14:06:38
79.   Jim Hitchcock
76 - Okay! Scratch Marlins, insert Nationals :)
2005-08-14 14:07:10
80.   Eric Enders
73 - Bradley would probably be marginally better than Izturis, but only marginally. You'd lose some of the run production that his power provides, and his plate discipline this year is about the same as Izzy's. But again, it's not likely that it matters much anyway.

Bradley would be interesting as a leadoff hitter, considering has the second-worst basestealing instincts I have ever seen. (The worst being Brett Butler.)

2005-08-14 14:07:29
81.   Bob Timmermann
So the Nationals aren't taking credit for Bill Stoneman or Charlie Lea or Dennis Martinez?
2005-08-14 14:09:14
82.   Jim Hitchcock
81 - Arrgh!
2005-08-14 14:10:24
83.   Yakface
I cant believe noone named the Drays muwahahahaha I was right.
2005-08-14 14:10:32
84.   werthgagne31
if tracy would play antonio perez, then there is your leadoff guy.
2005-08-14 14:11:14
85.   Eric Enders
84 -- good point there.
2005-08-14 14:12:16
86.   werthgagne31
85---thank you
2005-08-14 14:12:30
87.   Bob Timmermann
The wire services have this incredibly uninformed bulletin on the Padres-Phillies game.


2005-08-14 14:13:08
88.   Jim Hitchcock
83 - Refer 72.
2005-08-14 14:14:04
89.   Louis in SF
For any of you who live in the Bay Area and want to watch some good baseball A's playing the Orioles tomorrow night. I am planning to go and get walk-up seats never a problem at Oakland. If anyone is interested in watching a game and talking some Dodger Baseball at the same time. Please email me at
2005-08-14 14:14:16
90.   Jim Hitchcock
87 - In other words, he broke a finger.
2005-08-14 14:14:50
91.   King of the Hobos
Don't give up doubles to Gerald Williams...oh well. One run is easy to score, right?
2005-08-14 14:16:17
92.   Kilgore Trout
I think 30 hit the nail on the head when it comes to Izuris - put him in his natural spot (#8) and he becomes tremendously valuable.

Problem is that on any given day, the Dodgers have about four #8 hitters in the lineup, so you have to put one of them near the top.

2005-08-14 14:19:37
93.   gcrl
i don't think that's his kneecap, vin.
2005-08-14 14:24:06
94.   gcrl
how about that?!?
2005-08-14 14:26:39
95.   werthgagne31
this is bad, ledee and werth 0 for 2 each, i bet tracy will assign them bench roles and trot out repko/valentin/cruz instead, i would include perez but tracy has allready declared him a pinch hitter only.
tracy won't even take in account that pedro is a very good pitcher, he'll just look at ledee and werth performance today and declare them not good enough to start.
this is the kinda thing that the dodgers have to overcome when you have tracy as the manager.
its like by default the dodgers have a crippling effect with tracy at the helm.
sorry about being straight forward about it.
2005-08-14 14:28:02
96.   alex 7
off the top of my head, I would guess the last time the Dodgers threw someone out at 2nd was about 4 weeks ago.

Unless they did it in the last two games, which I missed.

2005-08-14 14:28:32
97.   Bob Timmermann
I think Tracy may take into account that it's Pedro Martinez pitching.

There seem to be quite a few ofers in the boxscore today.

2005-08-14 14:31:05
98.   Monterey Chris
I agree with Bob...Tracy will certainly realize that Martinez is pitching today.
2005-08-14 14:31:11
99.   Bob Timmermann
Bases juiced for the Phillies in San Diego with the Phils up 2-1 in the 5th.
2005-08-14 14:33:00
100.   Bob Timmermann
Jim had the right idea, but wrong part of the body.


Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-14 14:34:41
101.   werthgagne31
97-98---i hope so, cause repko,valentin,cruz are not better options than ledee and werth.
man i wish he would play perez everyday and leadoff.
2005-08-14 14:35:09
102.   Mark Linsey
There seem to be quite a few ofers in the boxscore today.

Why are people being discreet about it? Isn't it in our best interest to jinx it? Or is there also a superstition that if someone from the opposing side jinxes it, it's actually a reverse jinx that guarantees it to happen?

2005-08-14 14:36:04
103.   Bob Timmermann
Jon believes in the power of the jinx. And since he pays the bills, we all have to believe in it too.
2005-08-14 14:37:36
104.   Bob Timmermann
NL West looks to be headed for another 0-5 day.
2005-08-14 14:38:52
105.   Yakface
Would it really hurt that bad to put choi into the game now?
2005-08-14 14:40:24
106.   Mark Linsey
Well Penny is pitching a great game too, so you probably won't see Choi pinch hit until the next go-around through the bottom of the order.
2005-08-14 14:40:36
107.   Mark Linsey
Well Penny is pitching a great game too, so you probably won't Choi pinch hit until the next go-around through the bottom of the order.
2005-08-14 14:41:43
108.   Bob Timmermann
106 107

At this rate, that won't be until the 9th.

2005-08-14 14:42:33
109.   willhite
I nominate K. Greene and Werth for the All-Injured team. Both good young players (Greene in particular) who may never reach their potential because of all the injuries the suffer.
2005-08-14 14:44:45
110.   Bob Timmermann
Wasn't Greene a #1 pick by the Padres?
2005-08-14 14:47:17
111.   Louis in SF
No it couldn't hurt but today certainily seems like Pedro is on his way to a no-no. This is also a classic no hit situation, where the game that Penny is pitching 6 strikeouts and no walks. The Dodgers have 9 outs left to them. The no-no looks good and yes how rewarding it would be for Pedro to pitch his first no-hitter and the first no-hitter against the team that traded him. Despite his comments in the papers over the weekend that it doesn't make any difference pitching against the Dodgers now-I wonder. And yes a great chance to pick-up ground today!
2005-08-14 14:49:20
112.   gcrl
plant me firmly in acceptance if we lose 2 of 3 to the mets without beltran and cameron.
2005-08-14 14:49:44
113.   Uncle Miltie
Yup it looks like he's going to pitch one.
2005-08-14 14:51:47
114.   Linkmeister
This is the situation I get ambivalent about. The opposing pitcher is attempting to do something I've never seen except in highlight reels, but it's against my team. When does the baseball fan take over from the Dodgers fan?
2005-08-14 14:52:21
115.   jtshoe
Maybe this is the reason Tracy has kept Choi on the bench. They need someone to be able to break up a no-no.
2005-08-14 14:53:23
116.   Bob Timmermann
Wow. You've never seen "one of those games".

The Dodgers play a lot of these.

2005-08-14 14:53:28
117.   Uncle Miltie
Appropriately, Izturis could be the last hitter to make an out.
2005-08-14 14:54:01
118.   fanerman
We can still win this game.
2005-08-14 14:55:45
119.   oldbear
Pedro does have a no-no through 7 innings. He gets tired after 100 pitches though, so the guys in the bottom of the 8th will need to be patient.
2005-08-14 14:56:39
120.   fanerman
24 pitches to go then...
2005-08-14 14:57:12
121.   King of the Hobos
Too bad Penny's gem is going to go to waste if we can't get some runs. Swap him and Houlton, might as well get blown out if you're going to be no hit
2005-08-14 14:58:09
122.   Linkmeister
Bob, I've only attended about 20 major league games in my life; I keep living in cities that don't have teams.

As for television, I've been living on islands in the Pacific (Japan, Kwajalein, Oahu) since 1972.

2005-08-14 14:59:46
123.   fanerman
Well, it's Ledee, Perez, and Werth.

Then Navarro, pinch hitter, Izzy.

2005-08-14 15:00:44
124.   gcrl
boo ya!

bench that, jm tracy!

2005-08-14 15:01:18
125.   Mark Linsey
2005-08-14 15:01:22
126.   werthgagne31
antonio perez breaks up the no hitter.
take that tracy.
2005-08-14 15:01:30
127.   fanerman
Let's win this thing.
2005-08-14 15:02:10
128.   Bob Timmermann
2005-08-14 15:02:31
129.   King of the Hobos
2005-08-14 15:02:53
130.   Mark Linsey
Come on Werth and Navarro, time to jump all over Pedro while he is likely agitated.
2005-08-14 15:03:07
131.   werthgagne31
and my boy werth delivers a homer.
take that tracy.
2005-08-14 15:03:23
132.   Monterey Chris
Who needs singles?????
2005-08-14 15:03:37
133.   alex 7
ok, who's going to bless us gamedayers with the play-by-play on that one?
2005-08-14 15:04:02
134.   fanerman

By the way, aren't triples by nature "scrappy"? You have to hustle and run your heart out and all that to get one, right?

2005-08-14 15:04:20
135.   los angeles dragons
What will the Werthaphobes say to that?
2005-08-14 15:04:44
136.   King of the Hobos
Penny for the CG? That makes more sense to me than Sanchez. 105 pitches for Penny, he should have something left
2005-08-14 15:05:07
137.   bokonon42
If I were Pedro, Jinxie Steiner would wake up with a horse's head in his bed tomorrow.
2005-08-14 15:05:21
138.   alex 7
oh geez, that looks like a monster shot on gameday now. At first, gameday stated it was an inside the park homerun, sorry =)
2005-08-14 15:05:25
139.   Mark Linsey
It's a sign of how fall our bullpen has fallen that I'm not that upset with Penny batting here while Kent and Choi are on the bench.
2005-08-14 15:05:37
140.   gcrl
high fly ball to deep left center field, that is away out of here...there goes the no hitter, there goes the one hitter, and there goes the 1-0 lead.

something like that.

2005-08-14 15:06:20
141.   King of the Hobos
133 Perez deep fly ball to center, Williams can't catch it, triple. Then Werth went even deeper
2005-08-14 15:06:22
142.   Linkmeister
Perez tripled off the left-centerfield wall, just out of the reach of the CFer. Werth hit one way up into the bleachers in left-center.
2005-08-14 15:06:44
143.   fanerman
So Penny is staying in?
2005-08-14 15:07:18
144.   Linkmeister
Way to take my ambivalence out of play, Dodgers.
2005-08-14 15:07:19
145.   Monterey Chris

Announcers are exempt from the jinx rules...they have to discuss what is happening in the game.

2005-08-14 15:07:59
146.   Monterey Chris
I agree with Penny staying in for the 9th..he has pitched a great game, let him finish it if he can.
2005-08-14 15:09:34
147.   gcrl
piazza with the hat trick
2005-08-14 15:09:57
148.   King of the Hobos
Penny couldn't make this easy, could he? He's almost as bad as our bullpen
2005-08-14 15:12:26
149.   fanerman
Well it has been a ton of pitches. What's going on now?
2005-08-14 15:13:08
150.   bokonon42
145- They aren't required to be artful? Steiner called it a "no-hitter" through seven, when he came back for the bottom of the eighth. Vin has been hinting, but I didn't hear him come right out and say it.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-14 15:13:34
151.   Mark Linsey
Runner moved to third, one out, full count on Diaz.
2005-08-14 15:13:54
152.   King of the Hobos
Nice job by the infield to save the game for now.
2005-08-14 15:14:12
153.   gcrl
4-2 to get anderson at home.
2005-08-14 15:14:40
154.   Jim Hitchcock
Antonio...nice play.
2005-08-14 15:14:52
155.   Monterey Chris

Penny is not as bad as our bullpen!!!

2005-08-14 15:15:48
156.   dzzrtRatt
Once again, hurray for the kids.

Would Phillips have made that tag or alibi'd it? I like Dioner's poise so far.

2005-08-14 15:15:56
157.   Mark Linsey
2005-08-14 15:17:40
158.   Tommy Naccarato
I like our kids also. "The Kids Are Alright!"
2005-08-14 15:17:43
159.   DXMachina
The Mets radio announcers started talking no-no at the end of the fifth, so if Pedro wants to blame anyone, it can be them. To be fair, the Mets have never had a no-hitter in their history, so they tend to get a little anxious when they get near one.
2005-08-14 15:18:15
160.   oldbear
Bench that TRACY... Yeah what terrible defense AP is...

This game serves as a reminder how terrible Tracy is.

Great Game AP.

Knowing Trace, you wont start for another 2 weeks.

2005-08-14 15:18:43
161.   fanerman
The Kids Are Alright.
2005-08-14 15:18:48
162.   Mark Linsey
Penny pitched like a legitimate ace today.
2005-08-14 15:19:14
163.   fanerman
158 - I'm too slow.
2005-08-14 15:19:34
164.   Bob Timmermann
That was a very NL West like victory for the Dodgers today.
2005-08-14 15:19:49
165.   jasonungar05
damnit, 5 back.
2005-08-14 15:20:12
167.   oldbear
The Dodgers are 5 games out now. I'd be in full fledge denial if Izzy was DL'ed and Phillips DFA'ed.

How about some regular playing time for AP and the Chopper?

2005-08-14 15:20:18
168.   fanerman
122 pitches... oh well. Special circumstances today.
2005-08-14 15:20:54
169.   Jim Hitchcock
Wonder what inning Pedro gave up the hits in his one hitters...he looks awfully glum on the bench.
2005-08-14 15:21:41
170.   Tommy Naccarato
Our Kids need to learn how to hit though.

2 hits?

Pedromart pitched like an ace. By all rights, he should have won this game. But its those little mistakes!

2005-08-14 15:21:52
171.   dzzrtRatt
Great win! Look at Werth, so pumped.

Tracy can have his little vendetta against Choi, I guess, since he's the most creative manager in the history of baseball or whatever. But he's GOT to find a way to get Perez in this lineup every day.

2005-08-14 15:22:05
172.   fanerman
I'll be in full fledged denial if Perez and Choi start the corners from now on... of course that ain't happening.
2005-08-14 15:22:35
173.   King of the Hobos
Looks like we're gaining a game on everyone, 5 games back, and 2 great wins in this series. Trying to go into acceptance...can't...just...can'
2005-08-14 15:23:58
174.   Louis in SF
I am happy that I was wrong-does this mean that we will find more AB's for Perez?
2005-08-14 15:24:01
175.   Bob Timmermann
In this game

Pedro gave up his only hit in the 10th!

2005-08-14 15:24:51
176.   werthgagne31
i hope tracy feels stupid for benching perez for so long, and for saying he's a defensive liability.
sorry just had to say it.
great game antonio perez.
great game for my boy werth too.
hopefully this will get antonio perez some playing time, but i won't hold my breath, it is tracy.
2005-08-14 15:25:40
177.   Jim Hitchcock
175 - Man. That had to have been tough.
2005-08-14 15:25:47
178.   fanerman
176 - That sums up how I feel. It was a great win, but I won't hold my breath. For the Dodgers. For Perez. Heck, for Choi, too.
2005-08-14 15:26:59
179.   dzzrtRatt
170 They do need to hit, but to be fair, Pedro is probably one of the top two pitchers in the NL, and when he's going well, he's not really hittable. I feel for Randolph. Pedro's not a CG pitcher, but there he was, going for his no-no. Because the score was so close, Willie probably should have gone cold hearted and taken him out.
2005-08-14 15:28:37
180.   Bob Timmermann
But the Expos won that game. I would imagine that Pedro feels a whole lot worse after this one.

Especially knowing that if the lineup had Beltran or Cameron:
1) the Mets likely would have scored more run
2) Beltran or Cameron might have been able to flag down Perez's hit.

2005-08-14 15:29:28
181.   dzzrtRatt
Watching Pedro makes me wonder what it would be like if Gagne came back next year as a starter. You can go pretty far with a great change-up.
2005-08-14 15:30:16
182.   Brad Bogner
Pedro not only lost a perfect game against the Padres in extra innings when he was in Montreal, but he also lost a no hitter in the 9th to Tampa Bay, and a no hitter in the 9th to the Yankees.
2005-08-14 15:32:43
183.   Bob Timmermann
Pedro Martinez could be the greatest pitcher in history without a no-hitter if it weren't for the fact that Roger Clemens doesn't have one either.
2005-08-14 15:33:16
184.   dzzrtRatt
maybe you folks already discussed--the Giants DFA'd Kirk Rueter?
2005-08-14 15:33:54
185.   Gen3Blue
By the time I saw us ahead on Game Day till I could unhook my Broad band and switch to Direct TV the game was over and we won. It took me this long to get a message to the Toaster. On the East Coast and some interesting hook-up too hard to explain, but earlier in the game I had this fantasy--what if we got way outhit but won two to one. Its scary because I bought in to someones what if Navvaro hits a walk off on friday. Any way, here I am with more endorphins than I ever expected this week-end. GO BLUE!!
2005-08-14 15:34:48
186.   Bob Timmermann
We're just waiting to see how long it takes for the Yankees to add Rueter to their rotation.
2005-08-14 15:37:33
187.   dzzrtRatt
186 Yeah maybe the Yankees, but I was thinking the Padres might give him a whirl.
2005-08-14 15:37:37
188.   Linkmeister
Clemens doesn't have a no-hitter? I'll be darned. He's got everything else, including an amazing ERA this year.
2005-08-14 15:38:05
189.   Brad Bogner

Bob, I think Theo just has to ponder adding Reuter for the Yankees to pull the switch.

2005-08-14 15:38:39
190.   Eric Enders
The Mets announcers were mentioning that the last no-hitter pitched at Dodger Stadium occurred in 1995.

Catcher: Mike Piazza.

Pitcher: Ramon Martinez.

Also interesting to note that the centerfielder who failed to save Martinez's gem also foiled Pedro's last attempt at a perfect game:

2005-08-14 15:43:59
191.   patsweetpat
Y'know, denial can be fun sometimes.

Let's go ahead and pin the overused "turning point" tag on this game, and keep our optimism flowing for another couple days. I'm game.

2005-08-14 15:45:17
192.   Eric Enders
Unless we catch the Padres, I'm still considering the Kelly Wunsch injury as the turning point.
2005-08-14 15:50:12
193.   Kayaker7
192 You consider a LOOGY that important? I would vote for JD Drew's wrist fracture.
2005-08-14 15:58:55
194.   Bob Timmermann
I think Eric is viewing the Wunsch injury as emblematic of how the season went down the hole after that game because of a freak injury.
2005-08-14 16:00:33
195.   Yakface
Oooooh Emblematic dont hear that word every day.
2005-08-14 16:03:38
196.   Mark Linsey
So with great starting pitching of our own, some clutch defense, and just barely enough hitting we beat one of the best starters in the league.

I'll tell you what, if we can do that again on Tuesday against Smoltz, I'll be firmly back in denial right up until the day that we're mathematically eliminated. After all, now that the trading deadline has passed (and I don't think that anything we would want in a Weaver trade would clear waivers) there's not really any chance of denial causing you do do something stupid, is there?

Somehow I think I'll still be in acceptance come Wednesday, but you never know.

2005-08-14 16:04:14
197.   Eric Enders
Bob's got it.

Russell Martin with a 2-run triple. Dude is extremely fast for a catcher.

2005-08-14 16:05:06
198.   Bob Timmermann
I used "choler" yesterday and got nothing!
2005-08-14 16:08:18
199.   Tommy Naccarato
I consider last year's big trade to be the turning point.
2005-08-14 16:09:41
200.   Yakface
WoW Bob who would have that Choler would still be considered a word.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-14 16:10:05
201.   Bob Timmermann
I assume you mean the Florida-LA trade. The centerpiece of that trade was the winning pitcher today.

Complete game and all that. And has some of the best pitching numbers in the NL.

But if you still want Paul Lo Duca around to be a scrappy version of Jason Phillips, go right ahead.

2005-08-14 16:10:48
202.   Bob Timmermann
I like to keep all my humors in balance.
2005-08-14 16:11:20
203.   ddger
2005-08-14 16:11:37
204.   Jim Hitchcock
198 - Should have gone with `choleric', Bob :)
2005-08-14 16:14:56
205.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers were 1 for 1 with RISP today.
2005-08-14 16:21:00
206.   Bob Timmermann
A 3-3 home stand helps out the Dodgers as the Padres come home and go 2-4.

Now the Dodgers go on the road to play 3 in Atlanta and 4 in Florida while the Padres play just 3 in each city.

A 4-3 road trip by the Dodgers will cause me to restage the original version of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" in my apartment with my cat dancing the lead role.

2005-08-14 16:22:44
207.   GoBears
Just got back from the game. Wow. Hot day, Pedro looking untouchable, then bang! Great game. My first win of the season, after 6 or 7 losses. I swore off going after Tuesday's bullpen debacle, but a buddy with season tix called and I could miss a free shot at Penny vs. Pedro. Whatagame!

I'm telling you guys - Acceptance made it even better. I could just enjoy the peformances. Penny looked really good, for someone who gave up 10 hits. I guess 8-9 Ks and no walks helps. And I guess 90 pitches is the new 100 for Pedro. He looked other-worldly until the 8th.

Icing on the cake was when a 20-something pretty boy (who was standing up and posing most of the game) dove to bat a beachball and spilled his $8 beer. Schaedenfreude-flavored icing.

2005-08-14 16:23:18
208.   the OZ
206 - Your cat can actually dance? Or is that really just a snide way to comment on the Dodgers' chances of a winning road trip?
2005-08-14 16:23:56
209.   GoBears
206. That's a talented cat, Bob.

And in 207, I meant to say "couldn't miss..."

2005-08-14 16:24:34
210.   Bob Timmermann
My cat is certainly hoping I was trying to be snide.
2005-08-14 16:25:27
211.   Bob Timmermann

Mmmmm, schadenfreude icing, mmmmmm

2005-08-14 16:28:27
212.   Bob Timmermann
Was anyone warming up for the Dodgers in the 9th?
2005-08-14 16:34:03
213.   Yakface
yeh Sanchez was in the pen
2005-08-14 16:34:42
214.   ddger
A very savvy performance by Penny today. He's pitching like a top of rotation starter lately. Hope Lowe can give us a strong start on Tuesday.

AP deserves another start especially after today.
Izzy should sit on Tuesday.

I guess I'm in denial again.

2005-08-14 16:39:32
215.   Gen3Blue
If we go 4-3 my cat will dance to Grieg? or whoever wrote "Hall of the Mountain King"
2005-08-14 16:42:10
216.   Bob Timmermann
Yeah, Grieg wrote "In the Hall of the Mountain King". It's part of "Peer Gynt".

That music does seem more cat-like.

The Royals have just lost their 15th straight game after being swept by the Tigers in a doubleheader. Jose Lima lost the nightcap, 1-0.

I believe the Royals have the Red Sox up next.

2005-08-14 16:48:05
217.   King of the Hobos
The Royals were swept by the DRays, it's not gteeing any better for them. It's amazing they swept us, although that was when they got hot with a new manager
2005-08-14 16:55:06
218.   Bob Timmermann
The Royals were 7-5 against the NL West.
2005-08-14 17:11:39
219.   Brendan
This has been frustrating year but I attended in person the two best games with specatacular and great seats respectively; Choi's three HR game and today's Pedro's "No-No Yes for the Dodger"s game (Feel free to use that headline LA Times or Daily News)

I like two hour baseball.

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