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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Sunny Days in Jacksonville
2005-08-17 09:40
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tonight's Game

If you think the Dodgers have gotten hot with three magic victories in their past four games, check out their AA team in Jacksonville. The Suns won their 11th game in a row Tuesday, defeating the Mississippi Braves, 6-4.

According to Joe Block's game story on the Jacksonville website, the Suns' early 2-0 deficit was their largest during the streak, and came on the first home run the team had allowed in 88 innings.

Despite losing pitchers Derek Thompson to arm surgery and Jonathan Broxton to the majors, Jacksonvile has had plenty step up to give fans near and far (I'm looking at you, Nate Purcell) plenty to drool over. Just a few highlights:

  • Chad Billingsley has struck out 146 in 125 1/3 innings.

  • Edwin Jackson threw 15 consecutive scoreless innings to lower his ERA with the team to 3.39 and earn Southern League Pitcher of the Week honors.

  • Stellar if fragile reliever Hong-Chih Kuo is averaging 15 strikeouts per nine innings, with an ERA of 1.21.

  • As a team, Jacksonville is averaging 8.6 strikeouts per nine innings against 8.2 hits and 4.0 walks.

    The offense has thrived as well, despite the promotion of Delwyn Young to Las Vegas:

  • Catcher Russell Martin has an on-base percentage of .429, second in the Southern League.

  • Outfielder Tydus Meadows is right behind him at .428, and sixth in the league in slugging at .509.

  • Infielder Joel Guzman has an OPS of .841, 14th in the league.

  • Todd Donovan leads the Southern League with 55 steals (in 65 attempts over 100 games), 19 steals ahead of the runner-up.

    Again, there's much more going on with the team than these snippets offer. There's even a heck of a pennant race for those who are interested - Birmingham (the Chicago White Sox AA team) has held off the Suns with a nine-game winning streak of its own to maintain a 2 1/2 game lead in the second-half standings. (Jacksonville won the first half.) The Suns play the Barons eight times in their final 12 games from August 26-September 5.

  • Comments (657)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-08-17 10:05:46
    1.   db1022
    The 11 game winning streak could touch off one of those "Could USC beat the 49ers?"-type of discussions?

    What would J-ville's record in the NL West be? Could they finish ahead of the Rockies?

    (Of course not, but it'd be fun to see.)

    2005-08-17 10:21:41
    2.   Jon Weisman
    Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm pretty certain Jacksonvile would finish behind the Kansas City Royals.
    2005-08-17 10:23:44
    3.   Adam M
    So is Russell Martin the cather of the future? What's his ETA - mid 2006? Spring 2006? What should happen to Navarro, Mike Rose, etc.? The Times didn't exactly do the team a favor the other day by calling Navarro a seatwarmer, did they?

    And what happened to James Loney? Can he be the guy who burned up spring training, or does that look like a fluke now?

    2005-08-17 10:34:47
    4.   Bob Timmermann
    1
    There's a reason why they're called the "minor" leagues.

    The Jacksonville Suns would be fortunate to win 30 games in a major league schedule.

    2005-08-17 10:36:30
    5.   stubbs
    Kuo should be on the big club now, he is eventually going to get hurt anyway, lets milk him.
    Interesting stat I came across about which players are best at scoring runs after getting on base. I know the "luck" posters will dismiss this, but i thought it was interesting:

    MANUFACTURING RUNS

    Another important element of baserunning is how often a player comes around to score. The following players are the best at working their way home once they reach base (min. 150 ABs):

    1 Jay Payton OAK 52.6%; 0-for-0 SB (previous rank: 7th, 51.0%)
    2 Jason Repko LAD 50.7%; 4-for-4 SB (nr)
    3 Alfonso Soriano TEX 50.3%; 18-for-20 SB (3rd, 53.3%)
    4 Bobby Crosby OAK 50.0%; 0-for-0 SB (nr)
    5 Jay Gibbons BAL 50.0%; 0-for-0 SB (11th, 48.9%)
    6 Ivan Rodriguez DET 49.2%; 6-for-9 SB (nr)
    7 Larry Walker STL 48.6%; 1-for-2 SB (12th, 48.6%)
    8 David Dellucci TEX 48.4%; 4-for-6 SB (15th, 47.3%)
    9 Miguel Olivo SD 47.6%; 2-for-4 SB (nr)
    10 Chone Figgins LAA 47.2%; 40-for-51 SB (14th, 47.4%)
    11 Jeff DaVanon LAA 47.0%; 11-for-17 SB (nr)
    12 Milton Bradley LAD 46.9%; 5-for-6 SB (8th, 50.0%)
    13 Johnny Damon BOS 46.9%; 13-for-14 SB (nr)
    14 Manny Ramirez BOS 46.9%; 1-for-1 SB (nr)
    15 Jimmy Rollins PHI 46.9%; 26-for-31 SB (nr)

    Falling off the list: Pete Orr, David Newhan, Eric Hinske, Eli Marrero, Damion Easley, Frank Thomas, Alex Sanchez, Ty Wigginton, Sal Fasano

    Since joining the A's, Payton has a .532 slugging percentage, which would qualify as the second-highest of his career. The only time he slugged better was in 2002 when he spent 170 at-bats with the Rockies, slugging .606. In fact, Payton's Isolated Power (SLG – AVG) with Oakland is .266, the same as his batting average. I remain impressed with Gibbons, who has spent the bulk of his at-bats in the No. 7 spot in the Baltimore lineup – not a spot that tends to generate a lot of Runs Scored.

    2005-08-17 10:37:54
    6.   oldbear
    3. I wish the Dodgers would move Russell Martin back to 3rd base. He started his career there.

    Keep Joel Guzman at SS.

    Move Adam LaRoche to 2nd (another Kent).

    2005-08-17 10:38:31
    7.   Jon Weisman
    I think Martin certainly could edge ahead of Navarro, but what of it? Catchers don't play 162 games; even halfway decent catchers are also choice trade targets. Give me two good catchers instead of one any day.

    As for Loney, he is having his best season since his 2002 breakout. His OBP is .360, and he has 35 extra-base hits in something of a tough pitching league. He still has a chance to be a contributor.

    2005-08-17 10:42:41
    8.   Jon Weisman
    5 - Thanks for the list, but I'm really not sure what it's measuring. It's not measuring baserunning - the presence of Manny Ramirez seems to assure that. It's not really measuring ability to manufacture runs - the presence of Jason Repko seems to assure that. So what is it?
    2005-08-17 10:43:16
    9.   Kayaker7
    5 Hmmm...sounds like the inverse of the RBI. Thus, it would appear that the ability to score would also depend heavily on who's batting after you get on. Not to say that baserunning ability does not factor into it. I'm sure if Jason Giambi had Vlad Guerrero hitting after him, he still would not crack the top 10 in runs scored. But still, it looks like one of those stats that only have value at the extremes.
    2005-08-17 10:46:50
    10.   stubbs
    8-Im not good at disemenating what stats like this actually mean, but obv batting order position and team seems like it is very important here. Repko at #2 just seemed odd to me...maybe a way to measure scrappyness.
    2005-08-17 10:48:05
    11.   oldbear
    I'm glad Buntermaker has limited Repko's PA's.

    His hitting: .294/.377/.226 63k's/13bb's in 215 at bats.

    2005-08-17 10:49:24
    12.   fanerman
    Off topic, but has Werth looked better the last few days? He's hitting better and he said he's strong enough to start using the bat he used to use, right? Maybe we're finally seeing the outfielder we thought we'd have coming into the season.
    2005-08-17 10:51:37
    13.   Howard Fox
    maybe the prowess of the team can be parlayed into their manager following the players up to the majors, much as Tommy Lasorda did in his day...
    2005-08-17 10:52:15
    14.   Howard Fox
    12 - a few more days of this from Werth, and we can get something really good via trade...
    2005-08-17 10:53:00
    15.   USCDodger Knuckleballer
    I saw that Greg Miller handled the end of the Jax game again for 1.1 innings. I realize he is still recovering from injuries, but does anybody think he may also be in the bullpen for a september callup to be our lefty out of the bullpen that we desperately need right now in LA?
    2005-08-17 10:53:31
    16.   Howard Fox
    11 - but Repko's plate appearances didn't start being limited until he started to hit better...
    2005-08-17 10:53:52
    17.   Jon Weisman
    12 - I was tempted to write a Werth post today - not just because of Sunday and Tuesday's heroics. He is OPSing .809 since the All-Star break, with a .375 OBP. But it's only about 65 plate appearances, so I'm going to hold my breath a little.
    2005-08-17 10:55:35
    18.   Bob Timmermann
    5
    The bulk of the list are guys on high-scoring teams where there is a big RBI guy. It would be helpful to know the numerators in the equation too.

    I suppose that when Miguel Olivo or Jason Repko reaches base, it's a real special thing!

    2005-08-17 10:57:23
    19.   Jacob L
    In Repko's case, the list is probably demonstrating how infrequently he gets on base, and to a lesser degree, the fact that he's had a fairly large number of ABs ahead of Jeff Kent, who leads the league in BA with RISP (a banned stat on this site, I know). I'd like to know what's the scoring percentage for the lowest ranked players on this list and whether they tend toward slow and brainless (Phillips) or whether they get caught stealing a whole bunch (Pierre).
    2005-08-17 11:00:57
    20.   fanerman
    17 - That's good to know. If he keeps this up, we may be better off looking for an impact 3B bat than an impact OF bat. Though I don't recall any 3B free agents...
    2005-08-17 11:01:30
    21.   fanerman
    20 - I forgot to mention, I'm referring to the off-season, though the free agents may have given that away.
    2005-08-17 11:03:05
    23.   Jon Weisman
    Does the list account for pinch-running?
    2005-08-17 11:03:06
    24.   Howard Fox
    I, for one, don't understand what, if anything, the list in 5 shows.

    If the player has a high OBP and bats ahead of a big run producer, all that means to me is that the manager put them in the right order when making out the lineup card.

    Unless you are talking a Wills or Henderson or Brock, I am not a big fan of the stolen base. I generally see more down than upside.

    2005-08-17 11:03:18
    25.   oldbear
    Does anyone know why Atlanta is such a crappy sports town? The Hawks never draw anyone. Last nite, the Braves only drew 24,000 fans. Thats it. Thats atrocious for a 1st place team playing the Dodgers.

    I remember in the mid 1990's the Braves started doing the tomahawk chop thing and they drew plenty. Now not so much.

    2005-08-17 11:04:38
    26.   Howard Fox
    25 - they all came to see Jane Fonda back then
    2005-08-17 11:06:30
    27.   Jacob L
    25 I think the prevailing theory on the Braves, at least, is that they've reached the point where contending for regular season titles is not exciting anymore, and bigger goal seems unobtainable. It was certainly amusing when they played the Cubs in the 03 playoffs, and packed the place with Cub fans.
    2005-08-17 11:06:57
    28.   Jon Weisman
    And it's hot there.
    2005-08-17 11:09:24
    29.   Jacob L
    And, would you go see the Hawks?
    2005-08-17 11:10:13
    30.   Marty
    28. Funny. I was thinking "and its hot there" and then hit refresh to see your post.
    2005-08-17 11:11:28
    31.   Brian Y
    I disagree with #24. Then again, I still have the Ryan Freel incident fresh in my mind. I think having the ability to steal bases puts added pressure on the pitcher and the entire infield. It sets up hit and runs as well as while they are batting it creates errors along the IF where they rush their throws. I wish we had more Ryan Freel type players with 10HR power and 40SB potential on our team. Maybe this is why I like Repko? Who knows?
    2005-08-17 11:12:14
    32.   Howard Fox
    29 - sure...is Dominique Wilkins still playing?
    2005-08-17 11:13:22
    33.   db1022
    2 - Don't think I was seriously saying that J-ville could compete at the ML level. It might be the most loaded minor league team, at least in the last dozen years or so (from what I've heard), but the ML-quality pitching would be enough to bring them to their knees just as the offensive line play of even the worst NFL team would dominate the best college team.

    The 11-game winning streak juxtaposed against the struggles of the NL West just made me bring it up.

    Just needed to get that out there, lest people think I'm an idiot :-)

    2005-08-17 11:14:39
    34.   Howard Fox
    31 - doesn't hurt that he has Griffey, Dunn, Kearns, etc batting behind him...when he is healthy that is...
    2005-08-17 11:15:58
    35.   Howard Fox
    33 - your comments in 2 wouldn't influence our thinking about you...
    2005-08-17 11:17:25
    36.   Yakface
    Sorry to be off topic but did anyone else see all the Angels fans Booing Frankie? I dont remember if Yhency got boo'd that bad but I do remember that Alverez didnt get boo'd when he blew the 11 inning game against Stlouis. And coming from a first place teams fan base thats kinda shallow.
    2005-08-17 11:20:21
    37.   db1022
    35 - Being a Niner fan, and a SC hater, I've had to defend that position several times over the last 2 years. The level of play in any professional league is leaps and bounds better than any other competition out there.
    2005-08-17 11:22:23
    38.   Bob Timmermann
    Ryan Freel doesn't appear in the list referenced in 5. Freel went on the DL after knee surgery also.

    The chart is from Rotoworld and is simply R/(H+BB+HBP)

    So it doesn't take into account guys who reach first on fielders choices or errors.

    And Repko gets credit for a run scored as a pinch runner without having to bat as he did last night.

    2005-08-17 11:22:50
    39.   oldbear
    37. I'm a Miami Hurricanes fan and I truely believe that 3 years ago when we had something like 11-15 1st round picks on our team, we could have beaten the worst NFL team.
    2005-08-17 11:24:38
    40.   Penarol1916
    I think the big thing that the list on #5 shows is that attempting a lot of stolen bases only leads to scoring when you are extremely good at it or you have Vlad batting behind you.

    As for Atlanta being such a crappy sports town, the natives tend to follow college football more, the Hawks and Falcons haven't been around long enough to have built a tradition, especially with their terrible track records, plus it's just a crappy town in general, it's in the group with Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, and Nashville of the worst cities with professional sports teams.

    2005-08-17 11:27:09
    41.   Howard Fox
    40 - I'd suggest on your next vacation, you stay away from the South, what with all the friends you just made down there.
    2005-08-17 11:27:55
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    39
    It would be even less likely for a college football team to beat an NFL team. NFL guys are uniformly bigger and faster than a college team.

    And the NFL teams would throw defenses up against a college quarterback that would be hard to work against.

    In baseball, a minor league team could beat a major league team if it got a great pitching performance. But in football, you need to have everybody working together. And it's fairly rare that a quarterback comes right from college and steps into an NFL team and becomes a star. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but it's rare for that position unlike running backs.

    2005-08-17 11:29:26
    43.   Marty
    I've always been a huge USC fan. OJ Simpson was one of my heros in the late 60s. That is as good a reason as any to not get attached to sports stars.
    2005-08-17 11:29:30
    44.   oldbear
    40. Excellent point about stolen bases having minimal impact. Scott Podsednik is nowhere to be found on that list. I think that stands out in the whole "This guy is fast so he's more likely to score runs. So I'd rather have a fast baserunner with a lower OBP, than vice versa..." debate.
    2005-08-17 11:31:58
    45.   Jon Weisman
    36 - The way Dodger fans have booed Nomo and others last year (when in first place) and this year, I wouldn't have us throwing stones.

    Will Carroll predicted early on that mechanics would give K-Rod arm trouble as the season progressed - I'm suspecting that he was right.

    2005-08-17 11:32:07
    46.   Bob Timmermann
    40
    The people of Dallas-Fort Worth certainly like their football. And they like the Mavericks now because they have an owner who is popular and promotes the team.

    Even the Dallas Stars drew pretty well, helped out by the fact that they did win a Stanley Cup. Even though they played one of the dullest styles of hockey imaginable.

    The Rangers would likely do better at the box office if they were, you know, good.

    2005-08-17 11:32:34
    47.   Jacob L
    Does any one remember any of the choicer lines that Jim Murray used to earn his Chamber of Commerce awards from cities around the country? Apart from the famous "It was Kentucky's turn to use the cement mixer?"
    2005-08-17 11:32:54
    48.   db1022
    42 - It's the line play that would seperate the men from the boys (literally) in football.

    True, in baseball, Billingsley could go out and throw a 3-hit shutout against Colorado, but to be able to win even semi-consistently would be quite a feat for a minor-league team.

    2005-08-17 11:33:29
    49.   Penarol1916
    41. Oh, I have many friends in the South and do sometimes vacation there, just on their cities that are really nothing more than overgrown towns.
    2005-08-17 11:36:00
    50.   Penarol1916
    46. Oh, I'm not saying that Dallas is a bad sports town, just a bad town that happens to have professional teams. And I say this having lived in Texas for 4 years.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-08-17 11:36:40
    51.   Bob Timmermann
    49

    Unlike the overgrown towns of Southern California.

    2005-08-17 11:38:11
    52.   kent
    49- besides, it's not like they can read.
    2005-08-17 11:39:32
    53.   the OZ
    25 - regarding Atlanta, it's also one of two major American cities that has seen a decline in population over the past several years. That may have an effect on sports attendance. The Braves didn't even sell out their playoff games last year, as I understand it.

    The other shrinking city is Detroit.

    2005-08-17 11:41:06
    54.   db1022
    Ken Rosenthal has this to say about the Dodgers' management situation, heading into the offseason:

    "Dodgers. It's doubtful G.M. Paul DePodesta ever will get comfortable with Jim Tracy. Angels pitching coach Bud Black and A's bullpen coach Bob Geren are alternatives. Tracy, a native of Hamilton, Ohio, could fit in with the Reds."

    2005-08-17 11:44:10
    55.   Eric L
    51

    I live in and work for an overgrown town in Southern Cal. I think the whole IE is kinda like that (with a few exceptions).

    2005-08-17 11:44:30
    56.   Adam M
    What Timmermann said: 8 & 42.

    Miguel Olivo is an atrocious hitter, now with his third team in less than one year. Because of this, Olivo spent most of the year hitting 8th or 9th, in front of a fellow named Ichiro. When you get on base in front of him, even if you're hitting .180, there's a decent chance you can score, because this Ichiro's known for making contact, somewhat. Manny Ramirez isn't known much for his prowess on the basepaths, but he does has a big strapping fellow named Ortiz hitting behind him. "Working" one's way around to home after getting on base doesn't seem to require as much work by the guy on base as it does of the guy with the lumber.

    Suspect Atlanta fans are tired of pro sports, because they've had several top-tier teams over the years who haven't done very well at winning The Big One - Hawks, Falcons, Braves, etc. Seattle fans for some reason have yet to catch this disease despite the exact same symptoms. Plus, as Futurama once pointed out, there are so many other things to see and do in Atlanta: the Coca-Cola plant, CNN headquarters, the airport...

    2005-08-17 11:45:21
    57.   Bob Timmermann
    If the Dodgers win tonight and the DBacks, AZ's lead over the Dodgers shrinks to .0007

    What a race!

    2005-08-17 11:45:59
    58.   Warren
    25 - I'm from just north of Atlanta and will be going to Thursday's game.

    We can make a thousand excuses: it's hot, parking is horrible, public trans is dangerous, tickets are priced too high, the stadium isn't in the best part of town, etc.

    But the real reason IMO is what was stated here earlier: we're spoiled. We know the Braves will win 90-100 games so we wait until the post season. Even then most skip the division series.

    Plus the Braves have no real rival. It's not like Dodgers/Giants, Dodgers/Padres, Yankees/Red Sox, etc. The Braves have spanked everyone for so long no one seems formidable.

    And just a word on the Hawks and Thrashers. Check their record for the last several seasons. Why go? :)

    We do pack out The Dome for the Falcons. Maybe the Braves just need to get that streak snapped a few times to get people jazzed up again.

    2005-08-17 11:48:34
    59.   natepurcell
    yes! today is officially "suns thoughts"
    !!!!!
    2005-08-17 11:50:56
    60.   Adam M
    54 - hasn't Tracy, um, outlived his warranty? I thought he was brought up from Vegas (Albuquerque?) mostly because he was respected by the crop of prospects that were going to take over the team - you know, Lo Duca, Thurston, Jackson, Hanrahan, Chen, Crosby...without this rationale, who else would seriously consider Tracy as a major league manager, and why? His stellar in-game managing? His personal skills? His flair for fashion?
    2005-08-17 11:51:05
    61.   fanerman
    59 - Suns Thoughts indeed. I always got confused with "Suns Sentiments." Seemed a bit alliteration happy. It's not like Jon's site is called, oh I don't know, "Dodger Determinations" or something.
    2005-08-17 11:51:09
    62.   Eric Enders
    Jacksonville would stink if they were in the majors, but to say they'd be lucky to win 30 games is a pretty extreme overstatement, IMO.

    They've got the following players who are arguably major league replacement level, as of right now:
    Martin
    Guzman
    LaRoche
    Billingsley
    Kuo
    Miller
    Jackson

    In addition to Young, Broxton, and Thompson who are no longer with the team.

    That's more major league caliber players than, say, the 1962 Mets or 1915 A's had.

    2005-08-17 11:51:27
    63.   Jacob L
    53 I was very surprised by your statement that Atlanta is shrinking, so I looked it up. The City of Atlanta from 2000-2004 grew by about 2,000 people, a negligible number. Sure enough, Fulton County had fewer actual living people in 2004 than in 2000, although the difference is still only a couple thousand people. Very surprising in any case, but there are still plenty enough people to go to ballgames.
    2005-08-17 11:51:31
    64.   natepurcell
    3. I wish the Dodgers would move Russell Martin back to 3rd base. He started his career there.

    sorry, not a fan of that idea. Even though martin gets on base better, laroche profiles as a better overall 3rd basemen with his 40 homerun potential. Besides, we have plenty of depth at 2b with aybar, young, denker, abreu and maybe even dewitt.

    2005-08-17 11:52:53
    65.   Penarol1916
    51. They're not my favorite either, but many at least have a bit of Spanish character to them and more extensive areas for walking than other sunbelt cities. (Which is also why San Antonio is not on the list).

    58. They only sporadically pack the dome and now primarily because the Falcons have the biggest attraction in the league in Vick. As for the Hawks and Thrashers it's not like the Omni was packed when Wilkins was leading the Hawks to the playoffs most years either and hockey just should not be in Southern cities, it's just a stupid idea.

    2005-08-17 11:53:03
    66.   db1022
    60 - Tracy is still considered to be a very well-respected manager. If he were to leave LA, I'm sure the story would be that he is off to a place where his skills are more appreciated.
    2005-08-17 11:53:06
    67.   Eric Enders
    "54 - hasn't Tracy, um, outlived his warranty? I thought he was brought up from Vegas (Albuquerque?) mostly because he was respected by the crop of prospects that were going to take over the team - you know, Lo Duca, Thurston, Jackson, Hanrahan, Chen, Crosby..."
    --------------

    Tracy has never worked at Las Vegas or Albuquerque in any capacity.

    2005-08-17 11:54:26
    68.   natepurcell
    I saw that Greg Miller handled the end of the Jax game again for 1.1 innings. I realize he is still recovering from injuries, but does anybody think he may also be in the bullpen for a september callup to be our lefty out of the bullpen that we desperately need right now in LA?

    no way, the dodgers are going to take it super slow with miller. they know the talent they have in this kid and they are not going to ruin him for a futile attempt at a title run. miller is a long term investment. i dont think i will be ever to forgive the dodgers if they bring him up, and in pressure situations, he compensates by over throwing and damaging his shoulder/arm for good.

    2005-08-17 11:55:02
    69.   db1022
    65 - I'm not there, so I defer to those that may know better, but I believe the Falcons sell out the Dome quickly and consistently nowadays.
    2005-08-17 11:55:39
    70.   Howard Fox
    62 - yes, but most of the 1915 A's are dead now, so that is not a fair comparison
    2005-08-17 11:55:42
    71.   Eric Enders
    Let me pile on and say I could not disagree more strongly with the idea of moving Martin to 3rd base. You've got a catcher with a .430 OBP who was also named the best defensive catcher in his league, and you want to move him? I can't think of a single possible benefit that could come from that.
    2005-08-17 11:56:28
    72.   Bob Timmermann
    The Tampa Bay Lightning aren't giving back their Stanley Cup win.

    Since the Toronto Maple Leafs won their last Stanley Cup in 1967, there have been champions in cities like Dallas and Tampa and teams from Los Angeles, Anaheim, Miami, Raleigh, and Washington playing in the finals.

    That really bothers Canadians.

    2005-08-17 11:57:09
    73.   Icaros
    Tracy was Davey Johnson's bench coach. I recall that when he was hired, the LA Times's line was that Malone and Daly picked him because he was such a nobody he'd do whatever they told him to.
    2005-08-17 11:57:17
    74.   Eric Enders
    "That really bothers Canadians."
    -----

    But I bet it doesn't bother Canadiens...

    2005-08-17 11:58:03
    75.   Howard Fox
    71 - then how about we platoon him at 1B with Choi
    2005-08-17 11:58:37
    76.   Penarol1916
    69. Yes, now that they have Vick, which is what I said. Before Vick, they didn't, it's off and on classic bandwagoning with the Falcons, when they're not good they're one of the few franchises that gets blackouts from a lack of fans at the game.
    2005-08-17 12:00:36
    77.   natepurcell
    also concerning if the suns could hold their own in the majors- highly doubtful.

    you have kids playing on the suns. 3b, ss, 2b and 1b are all 21 or younger. you have a 22 yr old catcher who has only been catching consistently for 2 years.

    Although all these players are highly talented, it would be incredibly hard for them to do decently in the bigs as a collective group.

    thats why i dont adovocate bringing up preimum prospects in bulk. you have to blend them in the big league club to make it easier on them on the transisition phase.

    2005-08-17 12:01:38
    78.   Penarol1916
    72. I'm neither Canadian, nor a hockey fan, and it bothers me. It's just too many stupid teams in stupid cities.
    2005-08-17 12:01:49
    79.   Bob Timmermann
    74
    The Canadiens haven't been to the finals since 1993 and haven't gone far in the playoffs since then.
    2005-08-17 12:02:19
    80.   the OZ
    63 - My statement in 53 would have more value if I could remember the timeframe. It might be a 10-year population comparison, or even 25. I jsut thought is was worth mentioning.
    2005-08-17 12:06:43
    81.   natepurcell
    lets talk about the vero beach dodgers, if you want to talk about dominance, look at thier record, they are in first place with a 31-19 record in the second half, they already won the first half. complete dominance. Doing all of that, with AA promotions of core people (laroche, kuo, orenduff, abreu, ruggiano)

    but they just keep chugging away. its really unbelievable because the talent at jacksonville next year might be even greater than this year.

    2005-08-17 12:06:43
    82.   fanerman
    77 - Who would you recommend bringing up soonest and when?
    2005-08-17 12:10:11
    83.   natepurcell
    Who would you recommend bringing up soonest and when?

    maybe kuo, but i am still a little scared his arm might not hold up. everyone else, i would like to leave for a little bit more seasoning.

    next year though, if the triumvirate of guzman, laroche and loney start mashing at vegas the way conor jackson and carlos quentin were mashing for tucson this year, then i would think about calling them up midway.

    i would like to have prospects force my hand to truly show they are ready to be moved up (ie- like how laroche was the albert pujols of the fsl)

    2005-08-17 12:10:19
    84.   Fearing Blue
    #77: Also, three of the Suns best hitters (Meadows, Weber, and Donovan) are not prospects, but are likely better than major league replacement level. I'd say the Suns could give the Royals a run for their (lack of) money.
    2005-08-17 12:10:31
    85.   Eric Enders
    "thats why i dont adovocate bringing up preimum prospects in bulk. you have to blend them in the big league club to make it easier on them on the transisition phase."
    ------------

    While I agree with this philosophy, this year's Braves are Exhibit A in the case against it.

    2005-08-17 12:14:19
    86.   natepurcell
    next years AA jax team might not have the big time positional stars like this years of guzman, laroche and martin, but they will have better depth next year and the pitching will probably be better (hard to imagine about the pitching huh?)

    the rotation could probably be this if everything goes to plan:
    lhp chuck tiffany 21 yrs
    rhp luke hochevar 22 yrs
    lhp greg miller 21 yrs
    rhp julio pimentel 20 yrs
    lhp mike megrew 22 yrs

    2005-08-17 12:14:33
    87.   Jon Weisman
    Geez, Nate - I give you Jacksonville Day and you're already moving on to Vero Beach?

    Here's a question for you. With Las Vegas almost talent-free, many Suns figure to be there next year. Will the pitchers be ready to tolerate the environment?

    2005-08-17 12:15:30
    88.   Fearing Blue
    #81: I understand it was hyperbole, but there's really very little chance that the talent at Jacksonville could be greater next year assuming a reasonable number of promotions. So, for position players, you have Loney > Dunlap, Young > Abreu (Denker will likely start at Vero), Guzman > Hu, LaRoche > Kemp, Ruggiano > Raglani. And pitching is even more one-sided with Billingsley, Miller, Jackson, and Orenduff heading up the Suns rotation.
    2005-08-17 12:16:59
    89.   natepurcell
    While I agree with this philosophy, this year's Braves are Exhibit A in the case against it.

    true, but the braves have built a stable core of players- giles, furcal, even laroche, and the two jones brothers who are putting up allstar/mvp numbers.

    but you are right, the braves player development is amazing. if you can remember, depo said that the team he most admires the most is the braves because of thier long standing dominance and player development. So i think depos long term vision for the dodgers will look a lot like the braves.

    2005-08-17 12:18:37
    90.   Fearing Blue
    #85: My philosophy is that most teams bring up prospects when they aren't yet ready to meaningfully contribute. Thus, you have a player who is contributing marginally better than replacement level for 1 - 2 years. If you wait until a prospect is more mature (i.e. close to league average performance), it would be easier to bring up a group of prospects together and maintain a winning record (e.g., Athletics and Braves).
    2005-08-17 12:19:31
    91.   natepurcell
    Here's a question for you. With Las Vegas almost talent-free, many Suns figure to be there next year. Will the pitchers be ready to tolerate the environment?

    i think they will have a hard time adjusting at first, but could most likely get the hang of it.

    remmeber though, starting pitchers with eras in the high 4's in vegas is really really good. anything below 4.5 for an extended period of time, you know they are ready for the bigs.

    2005-08-17 12:19:56
    92.   Fearing Blue
    #83: I'd rather the Dodgers take it easy with Kuo for the same reasons as Miller. His stuff is electric and if they can slowly build up his arm strength, he could be a huge long term impact.
    2005-08-17 12:21:39
    93.   sanchez101
    The question of Jacksonville's competitiveness in the majors is very interesting, and since BP has minor league trasnlations i think we could try and take a stab at it, or at least their starting lineup. This would be a lot easier if they posted the minor league traslations daily like they did last year, but they show three examples of of hitters that had significant ab's in jacksonvill from last year: Willy Aybar, Joel Guzman, and James Loney. Here they are:
    actual majors translations
    Aybar 276/346/425 255/319/400 248eqa
    Guzman280/325/522 257/299/475 260eqa
    Loney 238/314/327 222/292/308 216eqa
    so using these examples, we should break down their components. For example aybar's iso slg was .149, his trans. iso slg was .145, so the multiplier for his iso slg is .973 :
    act./trans. aybar guzman loney
    ave. .924 .917 .933
    iso obp. .914 .933 .921
    iso slg. .973 .901 .966
    so the southern league really isnt that far off from the majors, less than 10% i'd say. For ave, since loney's was so low, and the translations seem to be forgiving to low numbers, lets go with a .920 multiplier batting average. For iso obp, guzmans the low man, and since aybar has close to ave numbers, ill use a .915 multiplier for iso obp. For iso slg, guzmans is the outlier, i think this has to do with the fact that he's much more of a power hitter, wheras aybar and loney are more singles and doubles, so lets give ourselves two multipliers: .900 for power hitters and .970 for guys with doubles/singles power. Now lets apply these translations to a typical jacksonville line-up.

    translated(i classified young,laroche,guzman
    meadows, and weber as power hitters, so they got .900 iso slug multiplier, everyone else got .970)
    ave/obp/slg OPS KC OPS
    CF Donovan: .258/.332/.391 723 783
    C Martin: .286/.394/.387 781 631
    RF Weber: .288/.345/.454 799 770
    LF Meadows: .260/.394/.464 858 701
    SS Guzman: .263/.321/.448 769 670
    3B LaRoche: .241/.328/.427 775 654
    2B Young: .272/.318/.455 773 766
    1B Loney: .260/.330/.380 710 863
    ave 773.5 729.8
    the KC OPS is the royals starter at the same position as the Jax starter in the same column. So the 783ops next to donovans 723ops is david dejesus, john buck's is next martin's, ect. The KC lineup is CF Dejesus, C John Buck, RF emil brown, LF terrance long, SS Angel Berroa, 3B Mark Teahan, 2B Tony Graffinino (now with BOS), and for 1B i let them have Mike Sweeney. The KC lineup's OPS is 79.8 (ouch) Jax's is 773.5.

    Now obviously you may not think much of BP's minor league translations, and/or you may think my math is flawed, which is fair. But for the arguments sake, the best measure i could find, translated as best i could, showed that the Jacksonville lineup is easily better than the royals. I could do an analysis of the pitching staff if you guys want.

    2005-08-17 12:22:38
    94.   natepurcell
    And pitching is even more one-sided with Billingsley, Miller, Jackson, and Orenduff heading up the Suns rotation.

    its hard to imagine, but seriously, the jax suns next year have a great chance at having better pitching and more depth too.

    miller will probably stay back in AA for next year to lead the suns. Tiffany will join him and i expect him to be fully healthy next year and really dominant. another pitcher who could breakout anytime is julio pimentel. he is only 19 right now and has been young for every league hes been in, so it wouldnt suprise me one bit if the light just all of a sudden turn on for him next year.

    2005-08-17 12:25:01
    95.   natepurcell
    thats aweomse stuff sanchez. yea, if you can do one comparing the pitching, that would be great.
    2005-08-17 12:25:24
    96.   Bob Timmermann
    It will soon be time to see if the Curse of Steve holds. Oakland will be starting at 12:35 against Baltimore.

    The A's are winless since Steve's defection.

    2005-08-17 12:27:27
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    What were Broxton's minor league translations?
    2005-08-17 12:28:24
    98.   LAT
    50 Penarol1916, Finally someone who lived in Texas but does not claim Texas as the greatest place on earth. Every person I have met from Texas, whether they were born there or went to school there, has this arrogance about them that Texas is just better and they are doing the rest of the Country a favor by being part of the Union. I know people who were born and lived thier whole lives in Ca. but went to college for about 20 minutes in Texas and claim to be Taxans with the accent and ya all. I never understood this. Other than some very good looking women and BBQ, I'm not sure what Texas has to offer.

    I just realized, my posts are pretty "glass half empty" these days. Must need some fiber.

    2005-08-17 12:28:57
    99.   Fearing Blue
    #86: Ok. The pitching would be a lot closer than I originally thought, assuming Miller goes back to AA (he may not after AFL) and Hochevar signs and quickly moves up to AA (he'll likely begin the year in A+). Still, I'd take this year's pitching staff.

    Billingsley better than Tiffany
    Jackson worse than Hochevar
    Miller equal to Miller
    Orenduff better than Pimentel
    Hanrahan worse than Megrew
    Kuo better than Alexander
    Alvarez equal to Alvarez
    Perez equal to Perez
    Rodriguez equal to Rodriguez
    Gonzalez equivalent to Merricks

    2005-08-17 12:30:04
    100.   Yakface
    WoW. Thats pretty amazing confusing stuff.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-08-17 12:30:22
    101.   fanerman
    98 - Don't mess with Texas.

    Just kidding. My teacher used to (jokingly) say that a lot.

    2005-08-17 12:30:34
    102.   Monterey Chris
    Dear Steve,

    When you decide to leave the A's, the Padres are looking for a few more fans. Please make your move by September.

    Thanks!

    2005-08-17 12:32:11
    103.   Jon Weisman
    That's right, you're not from Texas
    That's right, you're not from Texas
    That's right, you're not from Texas
    But Texas wants you anyway
    2005-08-17 12:33:06
    104.   Bob Timmermann
    Steve Phillips on ESPN is saying that the Giants are blocking a lot of waiver deals because they think they are going to make a run at the division title in September when Bonds returns.

    Still, seven games out with three teams ahead of you makes you a longshot.

    2005-08-17 12:33:45
    105.   fanerman
    104 - What do you mean blocking waiver deals? (I'm not sure how waivers work exactly)
    2005-08-17 12:35:30
    106.   USCDodger Knuckleballer
    105 - me too. I don't really understand how the whole waivers system works with claims and putting people through, etc... if somebody could take the time to explain, i'm sure many of us would greatly appreciate it. thanks.
    2005-08-17 12:36:49
    107.   Howard Fox
    104 - unless those 3 teams are this years' Padres, D'backs and Dodgers
    2005-08-17 12:37:37
    108.   oldbear
    Why to move Russ Martin to 3rd:

    #1. Like Jon Weisman said, catchers dont play everygame. When you have a bat as good as Martin's, you want it in the lineup everygame. Thats why good hitting catchers often get moved to other positions.

    #2. Dionner Navarro: We know Navarro isnt moving to any position. He's been a catcher his whole life.

    #3. LaRoche/Martin/Navarro are all close to the major leagues. Why not position them to where they all can play in the same game?

    The argument about Martin not having enough power to play 3rd doesnt wash because we'd make up for it by putting big time power at 2nd with LaRoche.

    Ideally I think we'd be best off with Martin/Navarro both playing in the same lineup. There's only 1 way to do that.

    2005-08-17 12:39:35
    109.   Icaros
    Ideally I think we'd be best off with Martin/Navarro both playing in the same lineup. There's only 1 way to do that.

    Two, if you count the possibility of the Dodgers moving to the American League.

    2005-08-17 12:40:31
    110.   natepurcell
    good hitting catchers are often moved because they dont know how to catch.

    martins defense has been rated as potential GG caliber. you dont move that to 3b.

    if it comes to it, you trade one of the two to fill another position of need.

    2005-08-17 12:40:38
    111.   Bob Timmermann
    When a player goes on waivers (and nearly everybody gets put on waivers in August), each team gets a chance to put a claim in on the player.

    They go in inverse order of record per league.

    So any NL player that gets put on waiver first gets a chance to be claimed by Colorado, then Pittsburgh, and then San Francisco (and so on until you get to St. Louis.)

    If the team putting the player on waivers wants to make a deal with the team putting the claim in, then they work something out.

    But most of the time, the teams revoke the waivers and keep the players.

    But if the Giants are putting in claims for players, even if they rarely have any intention of actually acquiring the player, they are preventing the Dodgers, DBacks, and Padres from having a chance of acquiring the player.

    The only thing you have to worry about is that you might get stuck with a player you don't want, like the Padres did with Randy Myers.

    2005-08-17 12:41:23
    112.   natepurcell
    also, you are asking for two players to change positions.

    did you ever hear about martin as a 3b prospect? maybe he changed because he just wasnt very good there.

    what if laroche cant make the change to 2b?

    why mess with things that are currently working?

    2005-08-17 12:43:15
    113.   natepurcell
    also, why would you move the superior catcher to another position?

    this is jim tracy logic.

    2005-08-17 12:44:17
    114.   oldbear
    Is Martin's defense really that more superior to Navarro's? If it isnt, then I dont see the downgrade.

    I'd rather make these changes now in the minor league level, and AFL, etc... Than wait till these guys get to the majors and then move him.

    IF, the plan is to build around Martin, Navarro, LaRoche, Guzman, --- we need to get these guys in the positions they are going to play and commit to it.

    2005-08-17 12:45:58
    115.   natepurcell
    Is Martin's defense really that more superior to Navarro's? If it isnt, then I dont see the downgrade.

    every prospect publication and scout that i respect have said it is.

    2005-08-17 12:46:27
    116.   fanerman
    I tend to agree with Nate. The worst that can happen is we use one to get something else we need. Martin's value goes down greatly if he becomes a 3B.
    2005-08-17 12:46:57
    117.   Eric Enders
    "#83: I'd rather the Dodgers take it easy with Kuo for the same reasons as Miller. His stuff is electric and if they can slowly build up his arm strength, he could be a huge long term impact."
    --------

    Agreed. However, is there really a meaningful difference between taking it easy at the AA level and taking it easy at the major league level?

    2005-08-17 12:48:04
    118.   Bob Timmermann
    107
    As if the Giants are markedly better than either the Padres, DBacks or Dodgers.

    I can't see how Bonds returning would make the Giants all that much better. How many games could he play? He couldn't play every game down the stretch. He likely couldn't play the whole game.

    And as good as he is, he still has missed several months of action. I don't see him playing in September and hitting 15 home runs and/or drawing 50 walks.

    2005-08-17 12:48:18
    119.   oldbear
    113. I still dont see Martin as being the superior catcher to Navarro no matter what the scouts say. Navarro is younger and is already playing in the major leagues. As good as Martin's plate discipline is, do you honestly think it will be BETTER than Navarro's?

    Navarro's was excellent at Vegas, and its been just as good at the big league level.

    Navarro is a year younger and playing in the bigs. Martin is at AA.

    I think Navarro is the superior catcher, while Martin has the ability to play more than one position. Since i like both players, I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

    2005-08-17 12:48:23
    120.   fanerman
    111 - Thanks Bob. That was very informative.

    BTW, what happened to Randy Myers? I remember hearing about it, but I don't know the details.

    2005-08-17 12:49:39
    121.   natepurcell
    if martin moves to 3b, he will most likely be a kevin youkilis but with less power (even now, youkilis doenst have much power).

    also, kevin goldstein in a BA chat compared laroches offensive cieling to scott rolen.

    2005-08-17 12:51:52
    122.   Penarol1916
    98 Well, you have to understand, my dad was working in the economics department at Texas A&M with future Senator Phil Gramm, meeting someone like that at faculty family functions is bound to turn you off of a place.
    2005-08-17 12:53:10
    123.   Bob Timmermann
    In 1998 the Blue Jays put Myers on waivers to see if anybody wanted him.

    Kevin Towers thought that the Braves wanted a lefty reliever and the Padres got a chance to claim Myers before the Braves. So he put in a claim. Towers assumed that the Blue Jays would just pull back Myers and neither the Padres nor the Braves would get him.

    But Toronto GM Gord Ash figured that he saw an easy way to get out from under Myers' contract. So he let the Padres have Myers for essentially nothing (they did trade a minor leaguer). The Padres had to assume all of Myers contract.

    Myers had a 6.28 ERA in 15 games for San Diego and never pitched in the majors again. But I think the Padres had to pay him for another year or two.

    2005-08-17 12:53:11
    124.   Eric Enders
    "#1. Like Jon Weisman said, catchers dont play everygame. When you have a bat as good as Martin's, you want it in the lineup everygame. Thats why good hitting catchers often get moved to other positions."
    ----------

    It remains to be seen, however, whether Martin's bat will be good enough to hold its own at other positions. At catcher, we already know it is.

    Martin's OBP is tremendous, but his SLG stinks. He may develop more power, he may not. If he doesn't, he will likely be neither a good enough hitter nor a good enough fielder to play 3B regularly in the major leagues.

    Right now I'm expecting something from Martin along the lines of Mike Scioscia's career. Good solid OBP, no real power, good defense. Scioscia was an excellent major league catcher, but would not have been a good enough hitter to contribute meaningfully at third base.

    And, like Jon said, catchers don't play every game. Which is why you might want two solid ones to share the catching duties, so you don't end up playing people like Paul Bako and David Ross.

    2005-08-17 12:53:46
    125.   natepurcell
    I still dont see Martin as being the superior catcher to Navarro no matter what the scouts say. Navarro is younger and is already playing in the major leagues. As good as Martin's plate discipline is, do you honestly think it will be BETTER than Navarro's?

    have you even seen martin play? how can you make all these assumptions without seeing them play? and if you havent seen him play, you should trust the scouting reports.

    also, navarro was called up out of necessity to put an end to the phillips reign behind the plate. it wasnt like he was lighting up AAA. i mean look at his stats, he couldnt even slug 450 in the offensive inflated PCL. his BA was poor of .266. the only strong suit was excellent k:bb ratio and walk rate.

    I think Navarro is the superior catcher, while Martin has the ability to play more than one position. Since i like both players, I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

    again, i dont know how you can say this even if you just look at their stat line without seeing martin play.

    2005-08-17 12:55:35
    126.   Howard Fox
    124 - Eric, did you know catchers don't play every game?
    2005-08-17 12:55:36
    127.   Bob Timmermann
    I should add that John Schuerholz said after Myers was claimed by San Diego that he had no intention of claiming Myers either.

    Whether or not he said that to rub it in is unknown.

    Regardless, the Padres won the NLCS that year DESPITE Myers. They just needed Kevin Brown and Sterling Hitchock.

    2005-08-17 12:55:40
    128.   natepurcell
    I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

    also, we are not weak at 3b. 3b is one of the strongest positions in our system.
    laroche
    guzman
    dewitt
    russ mitchell
    josh bell

    2005-08-17 12:56:13
    129.   Eric Enders
    "50 Penarol1916, Finally someone who lived in Texas but does not claim Texas as the greatest place on earth. Every person I have met from Texas, whether they were born there or went to school there, has this arrogance about them that Texas is just better and they are doing the rest of the Country a favor by being part of the Union."
    ----------------

    Hmm... I was born and raised in Texas and have spent the rest of my life denigrating the state at every opportunity. (Including on this site.) It's a backward state, to put it mildly. I love the border region and Austin, but the rest of the state could sink into the Gulf of Mexico for all I care. Especially Houston.

    2005-08-17 12:56:15
    130.   fanerman
    Nate, earlier today, I was thinking of the similarity of the nicknames of Youkilis and Martin.
    Youkilis: Greek God Of Walks
    Martin: Canadian Mountee Of Walks... And Heart

    That isn't a coincidence is it?

    2005-08-17 12:56:33
    131.   Bob Timmermann
    If the catcher doesn't play every game, you will have a lot of passed balls.
    2005-08-17 12:56:57
    132.   oldbear
    121. I like Youkilis and I'd love to have another Jeff Kent caliber power hitting 2nd basemen. Denker might fit that mold, but LaRoche is a lot closer if he were moved over there.

    2007 Dodgers: Since this lineup costs virtually nothing, and would produce quite a bit.. Imagine how much money we could use to get a top notch pitching staff.

    3rd- Martin
    CF- Bradley
    RF- Drew
    1b- Choi
    LF- Giles
    2b- LaRoche
    SS- Guzman
    C- Navarro
    Pitcher

    Russ Martin leadoff hitter... Me likey!

    2005-08-17 12:57:25
    133.   Howard Fox
    131 - hence, Bob Uecker
    2005-08-17 12:57:37
    134.   natepurcell
    fanerman, nope its not. i was thinking along the lines of youkilis cause both walk a ton but dont slug that much at all.
    2005-08-17 12:58:46
    135.   natepurcell
    oldbear, stop with this moving martin to 3b, please. you are making my head hurt.

    i might have to claim bananas in my ears soon.

    2005-08-17 13:00:01
    136.   Felton
    Yhency's season:

    April 6 - 1/3 ip, 2 er
    April 7 to May 14 - 13 1/3 ip, 1 er, 11-12 sv
    May 15-20 - 2 1/3 ip, 6 er
    May 21 - June 17 - 11 1/3 ip, 2 er, 0-1 sv
    June 18 - 2/3 ip, 4 er
    June 19 - July 2 - 4 ip, 1 er, 4-4 sv
    July 3 - July 19 - 4 1/3 ip, 9 er
    July 20 - Aug 6 - 8 ip, 1 er, 5-5 sv
    Aug 7 - ? - 2/3 ip, 7 er

    Bad Times - 30.24 era, 28 days
    Good Times - 1.23 era, 97 days

    When he's good, he's very good and when he's bad, he's very bad. It's interesting to note that 12 save opportunities came before May 15 and only 13 since. Maybe Gagne would not have had a huge effect on this season's results. Any ideas on what to make of this? Is this Alejandro Pena who can relieve but not close?

    2005-08-17 13:00:32
    137.   Howard Fox
    then how about moving Martin to 1B
    2005-08-17 13:00:35
    138.   fanerman
    Nate,
    What would you suggest we do with the Martin/Navarro question? Assuming both turn out as well as we expect?
    2005-08-17 13:00:36
    139.   Eric Enders
    "i might have to claim bananas in my ears soon."
    ---------

    You should dress up like a banana instead and Vinny will probably coo at you during one of the broadcasts.

    2005-08-17 13:00:57
    140.   Bob Timmermann
    David Ortiz grounded into a 4-5-3 DP to end the game in Detroit.
    2005-08-17 13:01:48
    141.   Howard Fox
    136 - what that tells me is that Yhency is in over his head and could have used a little more minor league time to develop a greater repertoire of pitches
    2005-08-17 13:02:02
    142.   fanerman
    140 - If he just made an Olney... That's what he gets for not playing Smart Ball (TM).
    2005-08-17 13:02:09
    143.   Eric Enders
    "then how about moving Martin to 1B"
    -----------

    Then you're turning an offensive strength at catcher into an offensive liability at first base. Frankly, this makes about as much sense as releasing him.

    2005-08-17 13:02:31
    144.   Penarol1916
    121
    Why not Aybar or Young at second instead of LaRoche, who goes to his natural position with Navarro/Martin at catcher?
    2005-08-17 13:02:51
    145.   natepurcell
    What would you suggest we do with the Martin/Navarro question? Assuming both turn out as well as we expect?

    i dont see why we cant keep both until they are expensive. then when they start to get expensive, pick one and trade the other.

    its better to have two solid catchers that display almost the same attributes. they will be stronger in the games they are catching because they will have to catch less amount of games.

    2005-08-17 13:02:51
    146.   Howard Fox
    143 - they are releasing him?
    2005-08-17 13:04:20
    147.   Bob Timmermann
    The Curse of Steve?

    It's 2-0 Baltimore over Oakland after 2.

    2005-08-17 13:05:57
    148.   Eric Enders
    143 - No, they're not releasing him, because that would be really dumb. About as dumb as moving him to first base.
    2005-08-17 13:07:56
    149.   fanerman
    Bob,
    One more thing about waivers. So, if you make a claim on somebody on waivers (like the Padres did), it's up to the other team (who has the player) if they want to make a deal or not? If they want to give the player up, you will have to take him?
    2005-08-17 13:08:00
    150.   oldbear
    145. OBP is 3 times more important than SLG according to most. If Martin OBP's .385, you find a way to get him into the lineup everyday. Thats your leadoff hitter right there.

    I've seen enough of good hitters (Antonio Perez) sitting on the bench because they have no position to play.

    I'd hate to see that happen with Martin and Navarro.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-08-17 13:09:25
    151.   Bob Timmermann
    149
    The team putting in the claim can't pull it back. Just the team putting the players on waivers can pull the guy back.

    So be careful what you wish for.

    2005-08-17 13:12:44
    152.   USCDodger Knuckleballer
    Martin's value at catcher is the same way that Jeff Kent is valuable at 2nd base. Kent would otherwise be a league average OFer or 1B, but his power makes him much more valuable as a 2nd baseman. The same is with Martin at C, combining a high OBP and BA with gold glove defense makes him almost irreplaceable at that position but below average at most others. I really don't see having 2 great young catchers as a problem, if it is, then it's a great problem to have, much better than the ross/maybe problem we had a year ago.
    2005-08-17 13:13:03
    153.   USCDodger Knuckleballer
    *ross/mayne
    2005-08-17 13:15:00
    154.   fanerman
    Off topic, but where can I find pictures of these guys? To this day I don't know what Guzman, LaRoche, Martin, Billingsley, etc look like. (Or Logan White for that matter...)
    2005-08-17 13:15:22
    155.   natepurcell
    also, the one thing you are forgetting here is laroche. why move him to 2b where he might not be able to handle the position?
    2005-08-17 13:15:58
    156.   sanchez101
    Lets try the pitching translations for the Jacksonvill pitching staff. This is a lot harder to do with any certainty. I just did a translation for eqERA, not PERA because i dont no what the league averages are for k/9, h/9, ect. And of course era is in some part luck-based, just look at chad billinglsey's line for this season, so these are much more rough than the hitting translations.
    So here are the translations for the ones i could find:
    Pitcher/yr AA era eqERA IP eqERA/era
    CBills '04 2.98 4.31 42.3 1.446
    Hanrahan '03 2.43 4.08 119.3 1.679
    Jackson '03 3.70 5.22 148.3 1.411
    Brazoban '04 2.65 3.99 51.0 1.506
    ave 1.511
    so lets use 1.511 as a multiplier. My rotation will be chad billingsley, john broxton, eric hull, edwin jackson, and justin orenduff. Ill have kuo as my closer, and luis gonzalez and beltran perez as setup men.
    IP ERA eqERA KCERA
    Billingsley 125.3 4.02 6.07 6.02 ZG
    Broxton 91 3.36 5.08 6.44 JL
    Hull 102 3.35 5.06 5.10 RH
    Jackson 61 3.39 5.12 5.10 DC
    Orenduff 46.3 4.08 6.16 5.80 DB average starter ERA:3.64 5.50 5.70

    Kuo 22.3 1.21 1.82 2.72 AS
    Gonzalez 51.3 1.93 2.92 4.05 AB
    Perez 16.3 1.10 1.66 4.13 MM
    ave. reliever ERA: 1.41 2.13 3.63

    I listed the KC rotation's era next to Jacksonvilles translated or eqERA. The KC rotation is Zach Greinke, Jose Lima, Runelvys Hernandez, DJ Carrasco, and for the fifth starter i chose Denny Bautista beacuse they really havent had a consistent fifth guy, and his era is the best among the remaining starters. The back end of the bullpen for KC is Andy Sisco as closer, and Ambiorix Burgos and Mike MacDougal as setup guys.

    Im not suprised that the AA guys eqERA's isnt impressive, the traslation process isnt kind to them because the southern league is a pitchers league and jacksonville has a pitchers park. And i used a 1.511 multiplier, i couldve been kinder and used something closer to 1.400. Despite these things, the starters era is better 5.50 to 5.70 to KC and the relievers are better 2.13 to 3.63. Now in KC's defense they do pitch in a pitchers park and i couldnt find their eqERA. But i think this and my analysis of the hitters shows that Jacksonvill could hold there own against the Royals, the translations show that the Suns are a better team. The Jacksonvill Suns are hardly a 30 win team. I would compare these translations to the Dodgers, but that might be scarry. So ill leave it at this, the Jacksonville Suns would probably be AMONG the worst MLB teams, and are probably better than KC and COL,TB, PIT, and yes maybe even the Giants.

    2005-08-17 13:16:15
    157.   Jim Hitchcock
    98 - Im on kind of a Michener thing lately, currently reading `Texas', and LAT has it exactly right. I had forgotten that Texas was it's own Republic for about 20 years, and basically made it very tough for America to annex it, even though they were bankrupt and wanted to be annexed. Unlike other future states, all public land in Texas is owned by Texas, rather than the federal gov't. Gotta hand it to them Texians.

    I imagine Eric Enders knows that the original name of his hometown was Bejar (later Bexar).

    2005-08-17 13:16:21
    158.   Eric Enders
    Another thing -- the moving-Martin-to-any-position-other-than-catcher theory assumes that Navarro will turn out to be a good everyday major league catcher. This may well be true, but it's far from a certainty. In fact, there's very little in Navarro's minor league record, other than one outstanding season two years ago, that indicates he will become a good major league hitter. I'd guess the odds are against it. If he does have a long career as a regular catcher, it will almost certainly be as a defense-first guy.

    Yes, he looks great so far. But so did Chad Fonville, for a while.

    2005-08-17 13:18:01
    159.   fanerman
    the Jacksonville Suns would probably be AMONG the worst MLB teams, and are probably better than KC and COL,TB, PIT, and yes maybe even the giants.

    And the giants aren't much worse than us...

    2005-08-17 13:18:13
    160.   CanuckDodger
    FearingBlue, Hochevar is not better than Edwin Jackson. They are the same age, Hochevar has never faced competition even as good as the equivalent of low A, where Jackson dominated three years ago at age 18, and Hochevar's fastball is considerably slower than Jackson's. A better "feel" for pitching right now might be all that Hochevar has over Jackson, and that is not enough given the areas in which Jackson trumps Hochevar.

    Also, Delwyn Young is not better than Abreu, keeping in mind the position they play. Young has more power and walks more, but Abreu is progressing through minor league levels at a younger age, is a better pure hitter, has better contact skills, and plays second base like a, well, like a second baseman for starters, but also a really good one.

    As for comparing next year's Suns to this year's, keep in mind that a lot of the current Suns we like are Johnny Come Lately's who have not been helping the team all year: Jackson, Orenduff, LaRoche, Miller, Kuo. And I think that LaRoche could very well join Miller in beginning next year in Jacksonville. Ruggiano will also likely stay. Prospect-wise, next year's Jacksonville outfield of Kemp, Raglani, and Ruggiano (ages, 21, 23, and 24 next year, respectively) is a big contrast to this year's geriatric outfield of Weber (age 27), Meadows (27), and Donovan (26). Add to this the fact that the Suns, barring injury, should have 5 legitimate prospects in the starting rotation all year, I don't think it is at all out of line to say that next year's Suns will be better as whole than this year's.

    2005-08-17 13:20:23
    161.   natepurcell
    faneran, heres a picture of billingsley
    http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ldhbOGVC7UoJ:www.jaxsuns.com/press/04060553926.shtml+chad+billingsley+picture&hl=en&start=4
    2005-08-17 13:21:26
    162.   Eric Enders
    "I imagine Eric Enders knows that the original name of his hometown was Bejar (later Bexar)"
    ---------------------

    Actually, it wasn't. I think you've got the wrong hometown in mind. San Antonio is a great place to visit, but I've never lived there. And besides, most of the silly people there think "Bexar" is pronounced "bear" instead of "be-HAR."

    My hometown was known variously as Magoffinsville, Franklin, and Smeltertown before acquiring its current name of El Paso.

    2005-08-17 13:22:22
    163.   Penarol1916
    150. If you're sick and tired of seeing Antonio Perez sit, then why are you advocating that LaRoche move to his position?
    2005-08-17 13:22:55
    164.   sanchez101
    in regards to the navarro/martin debate, why not have both at the major league level? The dodgers did this in the 70's with fergeson and yeager. Give them both 325ish plate appearances a year. That way your covered for a possible injury, you dont loose anything offensively when you send you back up catcher out there, and you help preserve these guys knee's for a couple year. Then once they start reaching arbitration-eligibility one shouldve proven himself clearly better than the other and you keep him.
    2005-08-17 13:23:10
    165.   gvette
    159-"And the Giants aren't much worse than us."

    And the Dodgers are a tweaked Jeff Kent hamstring away from not being much worse than the Rockies

    2005-08-17 13:23:17
    166.   natepurcell
    heres a pictures of loney:
    http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050602&content_id=1072645&vkey=draft2005&fext=.jsp
    2005-08-17 13:25:00
    167.   Penarol1916
    162. Wow, I lived in Las Cruces for a while.
    2005-08-17 13:25:04
    168.   Eric Enders
    164 - Yes. It seems obvious, doesn't it?
    2005-08-17 13:26:21
    169.   Jim Hitchcock
    Oops, that's right, you did say El Paso, not San Antonio.

    Smeltertown? Wow, didn't know that.

    Did find it interesting that Bejar and Bexar were pronounced the same, but Tejas and Texas are not. One of them things, I guess.

    2005-08-17 13:26:57
    170.   Eric Enders
    The mere mention of Las Cruces makes me pine for a plate of La Posta flautas.

    Up here in NYS you wouldn't believe what passes for "Mexican food."

    2005-08-17 13:27:17
    171.   Xeifrank
    I would like to see Tyus Meadows be a part of the September call ups from the minors. The guy has put up as good of numbers as anybody in the minors for the Dodgers and he is 27 years old so there really isn't an issue as far as starting his clock.
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 13:29:06
    172.   gvette
    164- Ferguson got a lot of his at bats in 74-75 as a platoon rightfielder, not a likely scenario with Navarro/Martin.
    2005-08-17 13:29:45
    173.   Penarol1916
    170 Mexican food is pretty decent here in Chicago.
    2005-08-17 13:30:54
    174.   natepurcell
    here is a picture of miller, altough this is when he was 19.
    http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040308&content_id=646184&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp
    2005-08-17 13:31:15
    175.   Jim Hitchcock
    Up here in NYS you wouldn't believe what passes for "Mexican food."

    At least in California, there's always the catering trucks :)

    2005-08-17 13:31:22
    176.   werthgagne31
    oldbear, you know i agree with you practicly all the time, but this time i have to disagree with you about moving martin to 3b, and i agree with natepurcell about martin being the better catcher.
    if you look at martin and navarro's stats, martin is far more superior, but navarro will be a great back up catcher, how many teams have a great back up catcher, not many if any.
    i think our future is martin catching with navarro as the back up and a switch hitting back up, laroche at 3b, guzman at ss, perez at 2b.
    i personally think if guzman gets moved his value drasticly declines, i think guzman is a free swinger and the only position where a free swinger with power is valuable is ss.
    guzman will never have an obp pushing 400 in the majors, he'll be sitting around 340-350 obp even with 30ish homers.
    2005-08-17 13:31:35
    177.   natepurcell
    http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040308&content_id=647232&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

    theres a picture with miller, jackson, franky g, loney and tiffany

    2005-08-17 13:31:56
    178.   Marty
    1. I say we move Martin to player-manager. Then he can play any position he wants to.
    2. Texas blows, but man, that BBQ is good.
    3. The comments window on this site just went very wide and moved off the right side of my screen. Anyone else see that?
    2005-08-17 13:32:18
    179.   oldbear
    164. I'd hate to waste Russ Martin's .385 OBP by only giving him 325 at bats. To me, Martin's primary job is to lead off, and create runs. I dont care what position he plays. IF Martin's .433 OBP at AA translates into a .385 OBP at the MLB level...If it does.. Thats a leadoff hitter.

    If so, I want Martin to get Izzy like PA's. 650-700 a year. He cant do that catching.

    2005-08-17 13:33:14
    180.   Marty
    Jim, some of the best tacos in town are on the trucks. I read another site that often lists the best ones.
    2005-08-17 13:33:25
    181.   Bob Timmermann
    From about.com about the X in Spanish:

    X varies in sound, depending on the origin of the word. It is often pronounced like the "x" in "example" or "exit," but it also may be pronounced like the s or the Spanish j. In words of Mayan origin it can even have the English "sh" sound. Examples: éxito, experiencia, México, Xela.

    2005-08-17 13:34:05
    182.   GoBears
    The discussion of Martin and Youkilis as guys who walk a lot but have little power occurred to me the other day watching Robles and Navarro hit. WHY do guys with little power walk so much, and can it last? If a guy is not a threat to do any more if he swings than single, why not just throw him strikes? Seems to me that unless he's a .380 hitter (Gwynn, Ichiro), the league should adjust and just throw strikes, reducing the walks, slightly increasing the BA, but not having much effect on ISO.

    So here's my question. What players have had great careers based on high OBP with low SLG? Even if OBP is more important (which I believe), it seems that guys with no power ought to see their OBP sink toward their BA, because pitchers won't be afraid to throw them strikes. If you're Gwynn or Ichiro, great, but few are.

    2005-08-17 13:34:40
    183.   oldbear
    163. Even though I like AP hitting, LaRoche has a lot higher upside and is quite a bit younger.
    2005-08-17 13:35:27
    184.   Jim Hitchcock
    178 - Yeah. Might be time for those who post long links to check out tinyurl.com. And singulary great (and free) utility.
    2005-08-17 13:36:41
    185.   Bob Timmermann
    Off the top of my head, John McGraw, Eddie Yost, Max Bishop, and Eddie Stanky all had good careers with high OBPs and little power.
    2005-08-17 13:38:07
    186.   Howard Fox
    178 - 3 - yes, mine too
    2005-08-17 13:39:52
    187.   sanchez101
    179. Navarro's obp right now is .367, my argument is based on the fact that navarro and martin are very similar players: good defense, onbase machines, little power. Why not have both? If martin finds his power stroke, or one of them falls of the cliff offensively, then im all for giving the superior catcher 500+ PA.
    2005-08-17 13:40:06
    188.   Jim Hitchcock
    181 - Thanks, Bob. Suggest we stat pronouncing Texas Teshas.

    180 - Yes. Always helps to befriend the cooks, also.

    If you're ever in Culver City, check out Tito's Tacos, on Washington Place (at the 405).

    2005-08-17 13:40:16
    189.   oldbear
    176. Thats a good point about not switching Guzman from SS.

    I just think that Navarro is a good enough hitting catcher and fielding catcher to keep catching.

    And Martin's such a good hitter that there arent many guys period that can OBP close to .380, let alone at 3rd base. I want Martin leading off.

    2005-08-17 13:40:57
    190.   natepurcell
    *personally think if guzman gets moved his value drasticly declines, i think guzman is a free swinger and the only position where a free swinger with power is valuable is ss.
    guzman will never have an obp pushing 400 in the majors, he'll be sitting around 340-350 obp even with 30ish homers.*

    guzmans ISOd right now 63 at age 20.

    you can resonably expect the plate discipline to get better as he matures as a baseball player and hitter. although he might not ever push 400 unless his average is around 320, he can be expected to have a ISOd of around 60-80 in his prime.

    2005-08-17 13:41:12
    191.   Eric Enders
    Picturefest:

    LaRoche
    http://tinyurl.com/baq8j

    Billingsley
    http://tinyurl.com/cp6vx

    Russell Martin/Ray Liotta
    http://tinyurl.com/7kk6l

    Guzman
    http://tinyurl.com/92xt2

    Loney after smoking a nice doobie
    http://tinyurl.com/8ro5a

    Hochevar
    http://tinyurl.com/dgx3a

    Delwyn Young
    http://tinyurl.com/anr3b

    Cory Dunlap
    http://tinyurl.com/9dypq

    2005-08-17 13:42:30
    192.   Eric Enders
    "Suggest we start pronouncing Texas Teshas."

    Since binge drinking is very popular there, a lot of people already do.

    2005-08-17 13:43:10
    193.   fanerman
    Nate, Eric, thanks for all the pics!
    2005-08-17 13:43:33
    194.   Howard Fox
    188 yes, Tito's is the best
    2005-08-17 13:43:38
    195.   Jim Hitchcock
    192 - Good one, Eric!
    2005-08-17 13:45:06
    196.   Penarol1916
    178. I personally prefer Kansas City BBQ.
    2005-08-17 13:45:11
    197.   Marty
    Sorry Jim, I'm not a fan of Tito's. Those are more American-Mexican IMO. If you ever find yourself on the corner of Vermont and Santa Monica, check out El Gran Burrito. They are my current favorite. The al pastor tacos are amazing. And cheap!
    2005-08-17 13:45:35
    198.   Humma Kavula
    CurseOfSteveWatch 2005:

    3-0 Orioles, bases loaded with birds, nobody out in the fifth

    2005-08-17 13:45:49
    199.   Fearing Blue
    #117: I believe that there is a difference between taking it easy in the minors and in the majors for two reasons.

    1) Jim Tracy - If Kuo is pitching well, Tracy may decide to forego the 2 innings every 4 days plan in order to eek out a win.

    2) Overthrowing - In major league situations, it seems like there would be more pressure to overthrow and thus risk injury.

    2005-08-17 13:46:17
    200.   Bob Timmermann
    I hope Steve isn't watch the O's-A's vowelfest today.

    His head will implode.

    It's 3-0 Orioles in the fifth with the bases loaded and nobody out and Oakland can't get any offense going against the immortal Eric DuBose.

    4-0 Orioles now.

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-08-17 13:46:22
    201.   Marty
    196. I love KC BBQ. And Carolina BBQ. I wasn't trying to say Texas BBQ was best, just really good.
    2005-08-17 13:46:37
    202.   Eric Enders
    196 -- mmm, Arthur Bryant's.

    Can we talk about something else? This thread is making me hungry...

    2005-08-17 13:49:29
    203.   fanerman
    191 - Is LaRoche's hair really like that?
    2005-08-17 13:49:46
    204.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm switching over to the Royals-M's game to see if KC can pick up loss #19!

    The Mariners have the bases loaded in the first with one out and old friend Beltre at the plate.

    2005-08-17 13:50:46
    205.   Bob Timmermann
    Granny get out the rye bread!

    It's a salami for Beltre!

    2005-08-17 13:51:04
    206.   Jim Hitchcock
    Yeah, Marty, I agree Tito's is Americanized, but I still love 'em.

    Damn, NC BBQ? Spent a lot of time visiting there when I was young, and never tried any.

    Still, I have Woody's on Slauson.

    2005-08-17 13:51:53
    207.   Humma Kavula
    Wow, KC is bad right now.
    2005-08-17 13:52:22
    208.   Eric Enders
    203 -- Yep.
    2005-08-17 13:52:31
    209.   natepurcell
    hey faneran, do you want to see laroche's myspace? lol

    greg miller has one too.

    2005-08-17 13:52:39
    210.   Jacob L
    I heard about Tito's for the first time yesterday. Funny how things like that happen. Not a big fan of El Gran Burrito, but maybe it deserves another try. In the same neighborhood, I really like Casa Diaz (Hollywood @Vermont). Good carnitas.

    As for BBQ, I come down firmly on all sides. Texas, Memphis, Carolina. Sauce. Rub. I've yet to meet the bbq I don't like. Thought I'd throw in a word for California's own indigenous style. I'm on my to the Central Coast this weekend, and will be feasting on Santa Maria style tri-tip for sure. Its amazing, for those that haven't had the pleasure, and also available in Culver City.

    2005-08-17 13:52:45
    211.   Howard Fox
    206 - try Lupe's in Thousand Oaks
    2005-08-17 13:53:03
    212.   Eric Enders
    I don't think 207 was talking about the barbecue.
    2005-08-17 13:53:37
    213.   fanerman
    208 - Well, if we win the World Series we can send him to Queer Eye.
    2005-08-17 13:54:03
    214.   Bob Timmermann
    The Royals are going for just their 18th straight loss, not 19th.
    2005-08-17 13:54:05
    215.   Howard Fox
    212 - yes it was...it meant they are cooked
    2005-08-17 13:54:23
    216.   fanerman
    209 - Sure why not?
    2005-08-17 13:54:42
    217.   Howard Fox
    214 - oh, that is much easier to take
    2005-08-17 13:54:46
    218.   db1022
    211 - Where is Lupe's? I work in Westlake Village.
    2005-08-17 13:54:58
    219.   Linkmeister
    188 El Nopal on National Blvd (intersection with Motor) had pretty good Mexican food back in the mid-1980s when I was working at Beverly Hills Country Club up the street. The three-block walk after lunch was helpful after the amount of food you got for sensible prices.
    2005-08-17 13:56:40
    220.   Howard Fox
    218 WLV, huh? Agoura here...

    Lupe's is on TO Blvd near the Civic Arts Plaza

    2005-08-17 13:56:57
    221.   Jim Hitchcock
    Man, BBQ, Mexican food, and baseball. What else is there?

    Oh, yeah...women!

    2005-08-17 13:57:41
    222.   db1022
    220 - Gotcha, I know where that is. Is it Mexican or BBQ?
    2005-08-17 13:58:25
    223.   Howard Fox
    221 - forget women...Dodger dogs with mustard and onions, now that's ecstacy....
    2005-08-17 13:58:53
    224.   Howard Fox
    220 - Mexican
    2005-08-17 13:58:59
    225.   Marty
    Guelagetza in Koreatown for great Oaxican.
    Babita in San Gabriel is, for my money, the best Mexican restaurant in L.A. They do a Chiles en Nogada that is to die for. It's basically a Relleno with a pomegranate sauce that is amazing.
    2005-08-17 13:59:27
    226.   Humma Kavula
    Eric DuBose has blown the no-hitter with a single by Mark Ellis.

    He did get out of the inning, though -- still 4-0 O's.

    2005-08-17 13:59:32
    227.   Howard Fox
    220 - for BBQ, there is the TO Meat Locker also on TO Blvd, closer to Westlake Village
    2005-08-17 13:59:39
    228.   Fearing Blue
    #160: Jackson vs. Hochevar was a tough call for me. I originally had them as equivalent, which is probably more accurate. Jackson has better raw stuff and has age on his side, but there's something going on with him that's hard to explain. Even his Jacksonville statistics are not all that impressive (K-rate and BB-rate). With our system, I'd rather have Jackson (higher risk / upside), but I think most other teams would rather have a Hochevar (lower risk / upside).

    I have bad feelings about Abreu. His value in Vero Beach was primarily a very high batting average, which doesn't translate as well to higher levels (compared to OBP or SLG). Even with his defensive shortcomings, I'd take Young over Abreu.

    It's a good point about Ruggiano sticking around, and based on his performance so far it could go either way. Obviously, if he's there it makes the comparison a lot closer.

    One of the problems is what you stated, which is essentially what are we comparing. Are we looking at the Suns at the beginning of the season, mid-season, now, or end of season?

    It keeps getting closer, but I'm sticking with my pick of this year's Suns team.

    2005-08-17 13:59:41
    229.   Eric Enders
    I guess Howard likes his women easternmost in quality, westernmost in flavor.
    2005-08-17 14:00:14
    230.   db1022
    224 - Damn. Thought it was BBQ given the thread here.

    Manny's is a good place for Mexican here in WLV (on TO Blvd, past Lindero).

    2005-08-17 14:00:41
    231.   Jacob L
    I'll second Guelaguetza. For a while, I thought it was the best restaurant in L.A.
    2005-08-17 14:01:02
    232.   Howard Fox
    229 - how did you know...
    2005-08-17 14:02:46
    233.   Howard Fox
    db1022 - for BBQ...try TO Meat Locker on TO Blvd...or try Rustlers, corner of Lindero Cyn & Kanan...
    2005-08-17 14:03:12
    234.   Jacob L
    220 227, etal. For you West Valley, East Ventura County guys, are you not into Wood Ranch for BBQ? I've always thought its pretty good.
    2005-08-17 14:03:55
    235.   Howard Fox
    Wood Ranch, how yesterday...
    2005-08-17 14:04:19
    236.   Howard Fox
    I was always partial to Love's
    2005-08-17 14:04:24
    237.   GoBears
    185. I think you made my point, Bob. That was a while ago. And even then, it's rare.
    2005-08-17 14:04:59
    238.   kent
    Based on this discussion I guess Cooperstown will have to add a whole new wing just to accommodate our Jacksonville roster.
    2005-08-17 14:05:38
    239.   jasonungar05
    The Canadiens haven't been to the finals since 1993 and haven't gone far in the playoffs since then.

    In respect to Jon. Dang you Marty McSorely. We were 3 minuets away from taking a 2-0 lead and coming back home to LA for 3.

    and dang you John Leclaire as well.

    2005-08-17 14:07:22
    240.   natepurcell
    Based on this discussion I guess Cooperstown will have to add a whole new wing just to accommodate our Jacksonville roster.

    yea, thats about right.

    2005-08-17 14:08:18
    241.   Howard Fox
    239 240 I just hope it isn't one day in the overblown overhyped wing
    2005-08-17 14:10:33
    242.   Bob Timmermann
    The guys this year who have pretty good OBPs with little power are Placido Polanco and Luis Castillo.
    2005-08-17 14:11:42
    243.   Bob Timmermann
    241
    I've been to that wing.

    I saw Clint Hartung's plaque. Greg Brock's nd Torey Lovullo's too.

    It's in the back and you have to ask for a key.

    2005-08-17 14:12:00
    244.   natepurcell
    Luis Castillo

    i think castillo is the prototypical 2b for me. great defense, top of the order hitter, great OBP, very good SB rate. i like him a lot.

    2005-08-17 14:12:05
    245.   Colorado Blue
    Once you've had Mexican food in New Mexico, I don't think there is a place in the other 49 states that could compare. My sample size is small so I could be wrong, but other than NM I've had "Mexican" food in:
    CA
    CO
    TX
    AZ
    FA

    Arizona comes the closest. Actually the food in NM is a lot of "New Mexican" food which is lighter on the fats and higher in natural herb and spices... if you're ever in Taos, try the New Mexican fare at Doc Martin's... unbelievable!

    2005-08-17 14:14:42
    246.   Howard Fox
    245 - actually, if you are ever in Thailand, I suggest you try the Thai food
    2005-08-17 14:15:11
    247.   Bob Timmermann
    To me Mexican food in New Mexico is about as similar to Mexican food in California as Jeff Kent and Milton Bradley are in appearance.

    Both are good. Just quite different.

    2005-08-17 14:15:27
    248.   Howard Fox
    245,246 - I believe the place we went to was called Thai's R Us
    2005-08-17 14:16:02
    249.   natepurcell
    kind of OT, but i wish hochevar will just sign already.

    we are offering him a franchise record for a draft pick and well above slot money. take it hoch, its a great deal.

    2005-08-17 14:16:45
    250.   Howard Fox
    247 I sometimes have trouble telling them apart
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2005-08-17 14:16:45
    251.   dagwich
    201, 206 -- Locally, NC BBQ is divided by adherants to either Eastern (vinegar-based sauce) or Western (tomato-based sauce). The line of demarcation lies somewhere around Greensboro, and life-long Carolinians are mostly fervent about one or the other (analogous to fans of either the Dodgers or Jints). I mean, shoot, once college basketball is over in April what else is there to fight about other than NASCAR and BBQ?

    For extended discussion on NC BBQ and all things food, check out the message boards at chowhound.com. Tons of fun.

    2005-08-17 14:17:48
    252.   fanerman
    249 - Me, too. BTW, where are Andy and Greg's myspaces? I can look at them after I look at Andrew Bynum's.
    2005-08-17 14:18:18
    253.   Marty
    247. I agree. You get much more variety in California. Basically because we have immigrants from about every area in Mexico in CA. You can get good Yucatan, Sinaloa, Michoacan, DF, Baja, etc. food here.
    2005-08-17 14:18:50
    254.   Eric Enders
    "Once you've had Mexican food in New Mexico, I don't think there is a place in the other 49 states that could compare. My sample size is small so I could be wrong, but other than NM I've had "Mexican" food"
    -------------------

    The rest of Texas can kiss my patootie, but El Paso has the best Mexican food on earth. Better than New Mexico -- heck, better than Old Mexico.

    2005-08-17 14:19:01
    255.   Jim Hitchcock
    Not a huge tamale fan, but my mom always said the a guy in Ketchum, Ok. made the best tamales she'd ever tasted.

    Right up until the time they raided the guys house and found the skins of all the missing dogs and cats from the neighborhood...

    2005-08-17 14:19:40
    256.   Howard Fox
    253 - actually I am partial to Mexican, myself
    2005-08-17 14:20:52
    257.   Howard Fox
    254 - that made me laugh...very funny...better than old mexico...good one
    2005-08-17 14:21:37
    258.   Marty
    Lots of good Tamales in Eat L.A. My favorite is Sandra and Lolitas on Whittier Blvd. Across the street from a good fish taco place, Tacos Baja Ensenada.
    2005-08-17 14:21:53
    259.   Howard Fox
    255 - you know, that comment (the first paragraph) could be construed as kind of disgusting...
    2005-08-17 14:23:13
    260.   Jim Hitchcock
    251 - Spent my time in Winston-Salem, next to Greensboro.

    They had a tobacco based sauce that really took some getting used to.

    2005-08-17 14:26:43
    261.   Marty
    251. Chowhound is a great site. That's the one I was referring to earlier on the taco trucks.
    2005-08-17 14:26:54
    262.   natepurcell
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=5189991&Mytoken=20050817142739

    thats greg millers

    2005-08-17 14:27:12
    263.   Kayaker7
    254 I spent most of my formative years in El Paso, Tayhas. I do have to say that comparing Mexican food from different areas is not a fair one, since there are regional differences that some people prefer over others.
    2005-08-17 14:28:28
    264.   werthgagne31
    natepurcell, you seem to know the minor leagues pretty good.
    i have a question, what are the chances billingsley or any other starting pitcher in the minors cracks the dodgers rotation out of spring training next year?
    i personally don't think it will happen, but i'm no expert.
    the reason i'm asking is because i think we are going to lose weaver to free agency and i'm still not convinced about houlton, but i'm optimistic about houlton.
    also do you think martin will start next year on the dodgers team?
    2005-08-17 14:28:41
    265.   dagwich
    My last trip to California yielded me my first real fish taco -- man, it was great! It was some middle-of-nowhere place in Riverside County. I tried to talk the cook into moving here to NC but after some consideration, he rejected that suggestion.

    One of the real benefits of the significant in-migration of Latinos to NC is the explosion of tiendas and taquerias....and I would say they are as good as the ones in LA (except for the aforementioned lack of fish tacos). We can go 2 minutes down the road and get fresh tamales, tortillas, tamarido, etc, and have dinner for 2 for less than $5.

    2005-08-17 14:29:23
    266.   Mark
    If you want some really great, unique Mexican food in Los Angeles, try Guelaguetza on Venice. They serve Oaxacan food-- lots of mole, and other strange spices that you wouldn't expect. Very, very tasty.
    2005-08-17 14:30:18
    267.   Jim Hitchcock
    262 - Nate, seriously, check out tinyurl. You can add it to your toolbar. The lack of whitespace in the links is causing the widescreen (at least on Mozilla).
    2005-08-17 14:31:48
    268.   natepurcell
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=15264760&Mytoken=20050817143409

    thats andys.

    2005-08-17 14:33:32
    269.   Bob Timmermann
    Curse of Steve watch:

    Oakland has made it 5-2 in the seventh and another Oakland batter has reached on a bunt single.

    2005-08-17 14:34:23
    270.   dagwich
    To correct #265 -- it isn't that the tiendas and taquerias are actually exploding --- but there is an explosion in the number of them. There are enough journalist-types around here to make me nervous about my use of English...
    2005-08-17 14:34:36
    271.   Marty
    Mark, I like the Guelagetza on Olympic in Koreatown better than the one on Venice. Have you tried that one?
    2005-08-17 14:34:37
    272.   Jim Hitchcock
    Example:

    http://tinyurl.com/bzoky

    2005-08-17 14:34:58
    273.   natepurcell
    oops. okay, tiny url will be my friend from now on. sorry crew.
    2005-08-17 14:35:32
    274.   fanerman
    Thanks Nate. The tinyurlstuff is really useful, especially here.
    2005-08-17 14:36:26
    275.   fanerman
    It's all good.
    2005-08-17 14:40:06
    276.   natepurcell
    re: 264

    if jackson has a good spring, he could start in the rotation. I am not really counting on any of our prospects to start out in the rotation. i suspect depo will get a #4 starter to bridge the gap to 2007 and beyond.

    also, martin will probably spend the year in AAA unless navarro goes down with an injury, then we could see martin come up in the middle of the year.

    2005-08-17 14:40:08
    277.   Jim Hitchcock
    I'm guessing, dagwich, that your correct spelling of tiendas and taquerias was enough to put you over the top with them :)
    2005-08-17 14:56:24
    278.   Jim Hitchcock
    273 - No problem, Nate...I first found out about it here too :)
    2005-08-17 15:02:44
    279.   jasonungar05
    off topic:

    Beltre is heating up.

    He just went deep. He will be back to his non 2004 career avgs soon

    2001 .265 .310 .411 .720
    2002 .257 .303 .426 .729
    2003 .240 .290 .424 .714
    2004 .334 .388 .629 1.017
    2005 .260 .300 .422 .722

    2005-08-17 15:02:55
    280.   Jon Weisman
    Cueing RDGC ...
    2005-08-17 15:09:17
    281.   dagwich
    260 -- Jim, you kid, but in fact when I first moved to Durham about 20 years ago L&M was still producing cigarettes downtown. I hate, hate, hate smoking but I really liked that sweet smell of tobacco in the air. About 5 years ago L&M pulled out of town and Durham -- the Bull City itself (for Bull Durham tobacco) -- was without any tobacco processing whatsoever.

    All the brick warehouses that over time held the factories of the American Tobacco Company (owned by the famous Duke family), L&M and all the rest, are in various stages of being gentrified.

    The Bull City is now called either "The City of Medicine" or "The Diet Capital of the South." Or sometimes "The Red Headed Stepchild of the Triangle."

    2005-08-17 15:09:34
    282.   fanerman
    Beltre by month:

    April: .258/.284/.361/.645
    May: .216/.245/.353/.598
    June: .321/.391/.444/.836
    July: .245/.279/.472/.751
    August: .288/.321/.538/.860

    Still doesn't walk too much but an .860 OPS isn't bad. Bad for the price of course

    2005-08-17 15:09:58
    283.   JSN
    It's funny that you guys are talking about California and North Carolina today, seeing as how I've been in Southern California (I count Santa Barbara as southern) my whole life and I'm moving to Charlotte to take a job at Wachovia on Sunday. I've been expecting for my large Mexican diet, both authentic and otherwise to be downsized.
    2005-08-17 15:11:25
    284.   Jon Weisman
    I think we've done this once before, but the readership has increased since then.

    Dodger Thoughts Out-of-State Roll Call

    If you're from a state or country outside California, name it, and we'll tally it all up.

    2005-08-17 15:12:04
    285.   the OZ
    The Padres have a downright Dodgersian lineup tonight:

    Eric Young in LF, Damian Jackson in CF.
    Miguel Olivo at C
    Wilson Valdez at SS

    2005-08-17 15:13:22
    286.   Colorado Blue
    284 - Do you mean originally or currently?
    2005-08-17 15:13:24
    287.   JSN
    Oh and for those of you that didn't look at those myspace profiles, let us just say that it must be nice being young top notch baseball prospects, esp in Jacksonville. They arn't hurting for company, I'd say. And if it makes them play better...

    Go Blue.

    2005-08-17 15:14:41
    288.   Jim Hitchcock
    281 - What fascinates me is how forward thinking NC has been over the last couple of decades. The technology triangle, the film center (forget what they call it)...

    ...and the people. Some really great people.

    2005-08-17 15:14:55
    289.   JSN
    Well tally me up for Charlotte, North Carolina...

    I expect that my participation on DT will increase after the move since I won't get to watch as many games live or on tv...worst part of moving.

    2005-08-17 15:17:04
    290.   Jim Hitchcock
    289 - Oh, and to the best of my knowledge (maybe JSN can help me here) Wachovia Bank had the first automated tellers in the country.
    2005-08-17 15:21:09
    291.   Jon Weisman
    286 - Currently

    289 - You'll be up later.

    One of my best friends from college moved to Charlotte five years ago and loves it - he's staying there forever.

    2005-08-17 15:22:29
    292.   Howard Fox
    Agoura Hills...its a whole different world out here
    2005-08-17 15:23:11
    293.   Howard Fox
    289 - get MLB.tv online
    2005-08-17 15:23:28
    294.   dagwich
    288 -- like anywhere, you get all kinds here. Jesse Helms wanted to build a wall around the Triangle (no kidding), that's how much he loved it.

    Obviously add me to the NC column, Jon.

    287 -- JSN, you may be surprised as the availability of good ethnic food in Charlotte (called "The Queen City", by the way). Also, lots of good Western NC BBQ there. And NASCAR!

    2005-08-17 15:26:57
    295.   overkill94
    287 No kidding, must be nice being a hot young prospect. It's really interesting to take a look into the personal lives of some of our young talent, makes them more than just a stat line in the paper.
    2005-08-17 15:27:10
    296.   Jim Hitchcock
    Jesse Helms wanted to build a wall around the Triangle

    And in response, had his home condomized. Or would that be vulcanized?

    2005-08-17 15:28:08
    297.   Nagman
    the Dodger-Brave game is the only 4pm game at mlb.com that doesn't have lineups in.

    Anybody else picturing Tracy sitting at his desk in the visiting manager's office, scratching his head?

    2005-08-17 15:29:54
    298.   fanerman
    It is about time for line-ups...
    2005-08-17 15:30:06
    299.   the OZ
    297- I did notice. My guess is that he's intentionally trying to annoy us by delaying the posting. Many DT readers are not exactly friendly to Mr. Tracy.
    2005-08-17 15:30:44
    300.   JSN
    291 - Yea my 6am alarm is going to suck after 7:10pt games in September in a race. Argh.

    I really like it there as well. I've spent a summer and visited a number of times. You can enjoy the advantages of a big city (football, basketball, restaurants, a number of Fortune 500 headquarters) or drive 15 minutes and find houses on actual land (as in actual ACRES, not half-acres like LA) or enjoy some R&R on the nearby lakes.

    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2005-08-17 15:31:45
    301.   underdog
    177 (very belatedly): I just noticed that below the Dodgers.com pic of their top prospects, in the recaps of some of them was: "Joel Guzman, RHP;"

    Was he converted to OF from pitcher? I missed that history... Or is that a typo?

    How's Gutierrez doing since being traded to Cleveland?

    283 - I'm from Sta Barbara too (originally, now in SF) - quite a transition you'll have to make, wow... but at least Charlotte NC's a friendly town. You'll definitely miss Super Rica though. ;-)

    2005-08-17 15:32:57
    302.   Marty
    300. I'm in L.A. and I wish my house was on a half-acre. That's a BIG lot out here.
    2005-08-17 15:33:37
    303.   JSN
    294 Good to know dagwich. And yes of course add NASCAR to my last post.

    290 I have no knowledge pertaining to the first ATMs so can't help there.

    2005-08-17 15:33:56
    304.   Howard Fox
    my new house will be on a third of an acre and I am thrilled at that size
    2005-08-17 15:37:18
    305.   Jim Hitchcock
    Agoura is pretty great, Howard. Any oak trees on that lot?
    2005-08-17 15:37:21
    306.   JSN
    302 - Yea, I just threw a quick joking number out there.

    301 - That and a whole slew of other places

    2005-08-17 15:37:58
    307.   Howard Fox
    all is well in dodgerland again, Phillips is back at first
    2005-08-17 15:38:33
    308.   Warren
    Izturis, ss
    Robles, 3b
    Bradley, cf
    Kent, 2b
    Valentin, lf
    Werth, rf
    Phillips, 1b
    Navarro, c
    Perez, p
    2005-08-17 15:38:45
    309.   fanerman
    307 - Fantastic.
    2005-08-17 15:39:32
    310.   Colorado Blue
    I'm in Littleton, CO (Denver) and I have a tiny lot... I think LA may be the only place that makes what I paid for a home here seem reasonable.
    2005-08-17 15:40:54
    311.   Howard Fox
    Choi had two hits yesterday, his max for Atlanta...he can pinch hit when they go to Florida
    2005-08-17 15:42:04
    312.   fanerman
    311 - That's true. We wouldn't want to use up all his allotted hits for the season all in one series.
    2005-08-17 15:42:32
    313.   Howard Fox
    310 - just remember, when it comes to home prices, think Monopoly...its not real money...I think that game was from Parker Brothers, not Milton Bradley
    2005-08-17 15:44:21
    314.   werthgagne31
    308---same lineup as yesterday except phillips instead of choi and in the same spot.
    well, a slightly worse lineup, and do you really expect izturis and robles to get 2 hits a piece like they did yesterday, again today, i don't.
    so perez better pitch a good game cause i expect no more than 4 runs scored from the dodgers today, if that.
    unless the braves give us some runs.
    2005-08-17 15:44:43
    315.   Colorado Blue
    307 - What a relief... for a minute there I thought I might start understanding Tracy's mind. Perez and Choi sit yet again...
    The problem is I'd rather see Perez than Choi if I can only choose one, but there is nowhere obvious for Perez... I wonder if he can play 1B? Can't be any worse than Phillips.
    2005-08-17 15:45:08
    316.   the OZ
    Hooray! We still have Phillips to complain about!

    "Beating a Dead Horse" Update:

    Phillips - .241 AVG, .677 OPS
    Choi - .252 AVG, .795 OPS

    2005-08-17 15:47:21
    317.   fanerman
    316 - More relevant is...
    Choi - .212 BA/RISP
    Phillips - .309 BA/RISP
    2005-08-17 15:48:22
    318.   Bob Timmermann
    Random Dodger game callback

    August 17, 1934

    Brooklyn picked up 14 hits, seven for extra bases as they routed the Cincinnati Reds at Crosley Field, 12-4. However, all manager Casey Stengel's team was playing for was sixth place as the team was stuck in that spot, 24 games behind first place New York.

    First baseman Sam Leslie and second baseman Tony Cuccinello both had three hits for the Dodgers with two doubles and three RBI apiece as Brooklyn piled up an 8-1 lead after four innings against Cincinnati starter Larry Benton. Right fielder Buzz Boyle and third baseman Joe Stripp had triples for Brooklyn.

    Dutch Leonard went the distance for Brooklyn. It was just Leonard's second season in the majors. He would pitch until 1953, having his best years pitching for the Washington Senators. He would go 191-181 in his career with a 3.25 ERA.

    The Dodgers 1934 season might have been considered a failure overall since the team went 71-81 and finished in sixth place. But the Dodgers were able to spoil the pennant hopes of the Giants by beating them in the final two games of the season to allow the Cardinals to win the National League. What made those wins even sweeter was that Giants manager Bill Terry had reportedly said in a preseason interview about Brooklyn's pennant hopes "Are they still in the league?" The Brooklyn fans made sure Terry remembered what he said.

    Brooklyn's two best players were Leslie, who batted .332 and drove in 102 runs despite hitting just nine home runs and center fielder Len Koenecke who batted .320 and had a .411 OBP. Koenecke and Cuccinello tied for the team lead in homers with 14. Cuccinello had the lowest batting average of the eight regular starters for Brooklyn at .261.

    So it would seem that pitching may have been to blame for Brooklyn's poor record. And the staff was rather pedestrian. Leonard was 14-11 with a 3.28 ERA. Van Lingle Mungo was 18-16 with a 3.37 ERA. After that, the rest of the pitchers were uniformly awful, leading to a staff ERA of 4.48.

    Future Hall of Famer Hack Wilson played part of his final big league season for Brooklyn in 1934. Just four years after hitting 56 homers and driving in 191 runs, Wilson was let go by Brooklyn in midseason and picked up by Philadelphia, who gave up on him after just seven games. Wilson would pass away in 1948.

    Brooklyn was still in the league in 1934. But not many people cared, it seemed.

    Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

    2005-08-17 15:50:06
    319.   Colorado Blue
    313 - LOL. And yes, Monopoly is Parker Brothers; however, Aggravation is by Milton Bradley.
    2005-08-17 15:50:15
    320.   Ryan Jerz
    310 Reno, NV here, and believe me, anywhere can seem very unreasonable for housing. Although, I can't even begin to fathom what it's like in LA.
    2005-08-17 15:52:42
    321.   Colorado Blue
    320 - True... it has escalated in a lot of areas.
    2005-08-17 15:53:52
    322.   Eric Enders
    Cooperstown, NY.

    The housing stinks here too. I rent.

    2005-08-17 15:54:43
    323.   Paul B
    284 In response to the roll call: Down here in Montgomery, Alabama. All the hosannahs heaped on Charlotte likewise apply. Except for the "big city" ones. Ethnic dining options are . . . limited. Sadly, there's not even Delmon Young to ogle anymore.
    2005-08-17 15:55:14
    324.   Jim Hitchcock
    320 - Let's put it this way, Ryan...my cousin had a home built alongside the Montreaux C/C for the price of a couple lousy condos here.
    2005-08-17 15:56:55
    325.   Howard Fox
    actually home prices have leveled off a bit lately, you can get a $1,000,000 home for just $1,750,000...very reasonable
    2005-08-17 15:57:19
    326.   King of the Hobos
    According to weather.com, there's scattered thunderstorms for the next several hours in Atlanta. Sorry, but I'm going to have to hope the game is postponed, I'm told class is more important than a Dodger game
    2005-08-17 15:57:39
    327.   capdodger
    Cleveland Park, Washington, DC.

    Where the only thing hotter than political rhetoric is the real estate market.

    2005-08-17 15:59:23
    328.   Bob Timmermann
    326
    Looks OK in Atlanta right now.

    There are always scattered thunderstorms in Atlanta this time of year.

    2005-08-17 15:59:50
    329.   Nagman
    Cabrera not in the lineup tonight for the Fish.
    2005-08-17 16:00:22
    330.   Marty
    I'm sure home prices will begin to free-fall the day I decide to sell.
    2005-08-17 16:01:15
    331.   Colorado Blue
    328 - Is there a time of year in Atlanta when scattered t-storms are rare? Seriously, I don't know.
    2005-08-17 16:01:48
    332.   Howard Fox
    here is a diehard Dodger prediction: if the Dodgers take 2 of 3 in Atlanta, they will make it to the NLCS
    2005-08-17 16:01:53
    333.   Bob Timmermann
    329
    Yes, but it's not like the Padres are sending out an All-Star squad against Willis.

    Eric Young is batting third again.

    2005-08-17 16:02:23
    334.   Eric Enders
    "I'm told class is more important than a Dodger game"
    ----------------

    In college, I disproved this theory on a regular basis.

    I remember once particular time I had a Government midterm that started at exactly the same time as Game 1 of the 1995 Division Series. I arrived early, finished the test in (I believe it was) seven minutes, ran back to my dorm, and missed only a batter or two.

    2005-08-17 16:02:46
    335.   Bob Timmermann
    328
    I would assume in the wintertime, there aren't a whole lot of thunderstorms in Atlanta. It just gets cold.
    2005-08-17 16:04:26
    336.   jasonungar05
    I live in Orange County. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. My parents bought there house for 62k and can sell it now for 890k.

    I can't find a 1200 sq ft condo in the OC for less than 500k. Brutal.

    2005-08-17 16:05:17
    337.   Steve
    I assume the Curse of Steve has been noted. The entire A's offense is built on Jay Payton, and that should get us far. We're even resorting to stealing dumb bases and bunt singles. Ugly.
    2005-08-17 16:07:02
    338.   Bob Timmermann
    337
    Remember Steve, we're just laughing toward you, not at you.

    It's a subtle distinction.

    2005-08-17 16:08:31
    339.   Steve
    That's ok with me. Give and take. You still have to watch Jason Phillips play first base.
    2005-08-17 16:23:36
    340.   King of the Hobos
    328 I know, I was just hoping. I was also hoping I could leave with a Dodger lead, not the other way around =(
    2005-08-17 16:24:49
    341.   King of the Hobos
    Does Choi make that catch? Because Phillips' inability to catch the throw (or stay standing) cost us the run
    2005-08-17 16:26:32
    342.   Jacob L
    The NL West has been outscored 4-0 in the last few minutes. Not that there's anything unusual about that.
    2005-08-17 16:26:57
    343.   capdodger
    339 Attempt to play is more like it. The bottom of the first showed a clear example of Phillips giving up a run with his lousy defense.
    2005-08-17 16:29:12
    344.   King of the Hobos
    Repko not playing because he jammed a finger yesterday. Would he be playing otherwise? Phillips did his best to make up for the play in the first
    2005-08-17 16:29:36
    345.   fanerman
    To the sane manager, Choi's successes and Phillips' failures would in theory help get Choi playing time.
    2005-08-17 16:29:57
    346.   Art H Tracy
    325 maked me laugh.
    2005-08-17 16:33:06
    347.   Howard Fox
    Piazza has a broken hand...
    2005-08-17 16:35:16
    348.   Jacob L
    4-0 Marlins. 2 run double for Willis.

    You know I've always wondered if, during these inning breaks on DT chat, if I could sell you guys some beer, or razors, or something.

    2005-08-17 16:35:29
    349.   natepurcell
    0-2 and you give francouer a fastball over the plate!?>!
    2005-08-17 16:35:42
    350.   fanerman
    347 - How? Did he get hit by pitch?
    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2005-08-17 16:35:43
    351.   joekings
    Pitchers should get fined for giving up hits on 0-2 pitches.
    2005-08-17 16:41:04
    352.   Howard Fox
    350 - hit by pitch last night
    2005-08-17 16:41:54
    353.   Marty
    350. I think he was swinging the bat when he hurt the wrist.
    2005-08-17 16:42:59
    354.   Jacob L
    Thunderstorm sure would be nice around now.
    2005-08-17 16:43:24
    355.   Marty
    I must be wrong.
    2005-08-17 16:44:35
    356.   Bob Timmermann
    Looks like a BP night for Odalis.
    2005-08-17 16:45:02
    357.   Jim Tracy
    Man, the NL West is amazing. The FLA-SD game is almost over and this one could be a long fly ball away from over, and we're not even done with two innings yet.
    2005-08-17 16:46:09
    358.   joekings
    of course San Diego is getting destroyed.
    2005-08-17 16:46:09
    359.   Marty
    We got bad Odalis tonight.
    2005-08-17 16:46:32
    360.   JSN
    OP is getting absolutely ripped.
    2005-08-17 16:47:53
    361.   Howard Fox
    egbok....we need to pick up 1 game a week...if we both lose today, its alright
    2005-08-17 16:48:00
    362.   fanerman
    Well that's just great...
    2005-08-17 16:48:00
    363.   joekings
    I hope Dessens can warm up quickly.
    2005-08-17 16:50:12
    364.   joekings
    Why does it seem like they scored a lot more than 2 runs.
    2005-08-17 16:51:01
    365.   Bob Timmermann
    364
    Lots of baserunners.
    2005-08-17 16:51:04
    366.   Yakface
    Could anyone help me out a little? Im at work and for some reason Flash isnt working I have no access to game info Please Help!
    2005-08-17 16:51:13
    367.   FirstMohican
    364 Because they have.
    2005-08-17 16:52:04
    368.   Jim Tracy
    That was gnarly
    2005-08-17 16:52:07
    369.   FirstMohican
    366 Have you tried ESPN or Yahoo? (3-0, Braves)
    2005-08-17 16:53:00
    370.   Jacob L
    Yak, we're losing three to nothing at the end of 2. The NL west teams in action are down a combined 11-0 (keeping eye on Cincy).

    This break in the action is brought to you by beer. Buy beer.

    2005-08-17 16:53:02
    371.   joekings
    367- I meant in that inning, and how do i link to an older post?
    2005-08-17 16:54:04
    372.   FirstMohican
    [older post]
    2005-08-17 16:55:01
    373.   Yakface
    Havent tried yahoo, but both CBS sportsline and ESPN are stuck in the First with Furcal on 2nd, from the posts Ive been reading it appears that Phillips is directly related to 2 runs?
    2005-08-17 16:55:19
    374.   fanerman
    Is somebody warming up in the pen?
    2005-08-17 16:55:20
    375.   FirstMohican
    So with 42 pitches in two innings, anyone think Odalis makes it past the 5th?
    2005-08-17 16:56:23
    376.   Jon Weisman
    361 - EGBOK - that takes me back
    2005-08-17 16:58:13
    377.   joekings
    i mean an older comment, i see people linking to older comments when they respond to them.
    2005-08-17 16:59:47
    378.   Bob Timmermann
    This game is not making me enjoy my day off.

    I'm off again tomorrow. I probably won't enjoy that either.

    2005-08-17 17:00:22
    379.   Steve
    Just in the car, and Al Downing said while McCann was up something like

    "Bobby Cox has two lefthanders down at the bottom of the batting order, and that means he doesn't think Odalis can get lefties out."

    Yeah, Bobby Cox is brilliant. Of course the other possibility is that virtually all Atlanta's entire bench is left-handed (Langerhans, LaRoche, Orr)

    For pete's sake.

    2005-08-17 17:01:11
    380.   Steve
    371 -- 372 was answering your question. Put brackets around the number you want to refer to.
    2005-08-17 17:01:46
    381.   Nagman
    Does anybody know why O. Perez went home for a few days? Brings back memories of the two dismal playoff outings last season when he later said his mom's illness weighed heavily on his mind.
    2005-08-17 17:03:34
    382.   mag357
    Come on Blue...one clutch hit!

    found a flyer that the Dodgers are offering Half Price tickets for three nights, and selling them via the internet w/ promo codes.

    www.dodgers.com/asianamerican

    2005-08-17 17:03:54
    383.   joekings
    380 Doh! Thanks
    2005-08-17 17:04:16
    384.   Bob Timmermann
    Should I switch over to the World Cup Qualifier between the US and Trinidad & Tobago on ESPN2?

    When these two sides get together, you can throw the record book out the window.

    2005-08-17 17:06:03
    385.   Bob Timmermann
    That was a Cora-esque performance from Kelly Johnson.

    Except he didn't hit a home run.

    And Kelly Johnson is better.

    2005-08-17 17:06:13
    386.   ddger
    382. thanks for that info. hope Tracy has some sense to start Choi on KA community night
    2005-08-17 17:07:00
    387.   db1022
    373 - Yahoo is current:

    http://tinyurl.com/8chgl

    2005-08-17 17:09:20
    388.   Brad Bogner
    384 I'm glad you mentioned the WC Qualifier. I turned it on just in time for the goal.
    2005-08-17 17:10:23
    389.   fanerman
    That seemed like a pretty useful stolen base for the Braves. It opened up 1B so the Dodgers intentionally walked McCann to get to Hudson. At the least, now Furcal starts the next inning instead of Hudson.
    2005-08-17 17:13:08
    390.   Brad Bogner
    A stolen base for any team playing the dodgers seems pretty useful.
    2005-08-17 17:14:11
    391.   Bob Timmermann
    If the US wins tonight, they will finish no worse than fourth in North American qualifying. The top three go to the World Cup Finals. The fourth place team plays off against an Asian team, either Bahrian or Uzbekistan.

    The point of all this:

    I wanted to work Uzbekistan into the comments.

    2005-08-17 17:16:35
    392.   db1022
    Giants tie the score on a 2-out single by Noah Lowry.
    2005-08-17 17:17:00
    393.   Bob Timmermann
    The Giants have tied the Reds 2-2 in the fifth
    2005-08-17 17:18:29
    394.   db1022
    393 - Winn follows with yet another extra base hit.

    Randy Winn wouldn't be considered a bigger name than Rafael Pameiro, would he?

    2005-08-17 17:20:25
    395.   Yakface
    Does Hudson shutout the Dodgers?
    2005-08-17 17:22:42
    396.   Bob Timmermann
    3-2 Giants on an RBI walk from Snow.
    2005-08-17 17:23:17
    397.   Langhorne
    378

    You're lucky, Bob. I've been off since Saturday and won't go back to work till next week because I'm recovering from gallbladder surgery. The good news is that I have every confidence that the Dodgers will come back to win tonight because they are 2-0 since I sacrificed my gallbladder. I don't know if this team is worth giving up any more organs for, though.

    2005-08-17 17:23:22
    398.   db1022
    I think we picked the wrong Hudson to face today. Luke is melting down in the 5th against the Giants.

    3-2, bases still loaded.

    2005-08-17 17:24:07
    399.   oldbear
    Our bench is loaded tonite: Ledee, Saenz, Choi, Perez, Cruz Jr.

    By the way, how poorly does Valentin have to hit to get benched?

    Cruz got 2 games and is benched.
    Valentin's like 3-40 this month.

    2005-08-17 17:25:28
    400.   oldbear
    398. Or Hudson picked the right Dodger team to face. You know the one with all the offense sitting on the bench.
    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2005-08-17 17:27:35
    401.   Spageticus
    I don't know if we are still tallying out-of-state Dodger Thoughters, but this dude abides in Fort Smith, AR. (Born, raised in the I.E.)

    I chose a girl over weather that doesn't suck and getting to visit Dodger Stadium. The right move? Pending...

    So please, hold the jokes. I know full well Arkansas sucks. On the bright side, I am paying less than $400 for a rather spacious apartment.

    2005-08-17 17:30:06
    402.   Bob Timmermann
    Re Piazza's broken hand:

    The injury was suffered in the seventh inning Tuesday on a foul tip off the bat of Pittsburgh's Freddy Sanchez. The ball shot down and caught Piazza at just the right spot on his glove hand.

    2005-08-17 17:30:12
    403.   alex 7
    it would be entertaining if suddenly, like in little league, out trotted Sanez to 3B, Choi to 1st, Perez to SS, and Ledee and Cruz Jr. to the OF to replace half the starters.

    Entertaining and helpful.

    2005-08-17 17:30:43
    404.   natepurcell
    odalis might be as slow as jason phillips.
    2005-08-17 17:31:35
    405.   Colorado Blue
    401 - Where abouts in the I.E.? I used to live just north of Ontario... not that it matters, but curious; the place is friggin' huge.
    2005-08-17 17:31:38
    406.   werthgagne31
    rc27 stats for our current roster in individual order (withut cruz small sample) goes like this.
    perez
    kent
    ledee
    seanz
    bradley
    choi
    robles
    werth
    navarro
    valentin
    repko
    phillips
    izturis

    3 of the 4 bottom are in the lineup today and 4 of the top 6 are on the bench today.

    its amazing.

    2005-08-17 17:31:56
    407.   Bob Timmermann
    At least Jason Phillips will touch all the bases.
    2005-08-17 17:31:59
    408.   overkill94
    Has Odalis gotten fat again? He looked quite pudgy while rumbling around the bases there.
    2005-08-17 17:32:01
    409.   oldbear
    Why is OP trying leg out a double against Francoeur?
    2005-08-17 17:32:17
    410.   alex 7
    Navarro is hitless since his 15 minutes of fame in the Monday papers. Wonder if he read it...
    2005-08-17 17:33:14
    411.   Steve
    If I was down three and needed runners, that's what I would do.
    2005-08-17 17:34:59
    412.   Bob Timmermann
    Cardinals up 1-0 on AZ.

    The Giants are the only NL West team ahead tonight.

    2005-08-17 17:36:45
    413.   overkill94
    The freakin ball was in the right field corner, Odalis' mother probably could have gotten to 2nd on it.
    2005-08-17 17:37:01
    414.   alex 7
    is Dessens still on the 25 man roster?
    2005-08-17 17:37:14
    415.   overkill94
    Oops, probably shouldn't mention Odalis' mother, change that to sister.
    2005-08-17 17:37:43
    416.   oldbear
    Thats all the runs the Braves will need tonite.

    Bad Lineup
    Bad Starting pitching.
    And another L.

    However, OP didnt have much of a shot to win with the lineup Trace threw out there.

    2005-08-17 17:39:16
    417.   Yakface
    Odalis is really sticking it to his old team tonight.
    2005-08-17 17:40:33
    418.   oldbear
    403. That would be awesome. It'd be even better if DePo was seen in the dugout in a heated shouting match with Jim Tracy. Tracy leaves the bench, goes back into the clubhouse.

    Then the 5 reserves head out on the field and scrubs come off.

    2005-08-17 17:40:36
    419.   Jeromy
    Good grief! I just log on for the first time today and it's 4-0. At least the Padres are getting pounded too. I hoping for some more late inning Dodger mojo tonight.
    2005-08-17 17:41:07
    420.   Bob Timmermann
    So I wonder what the ruling was on the putative stolen base by Franco? Was it ruled a foul ball because it certainly didn't look like Francouer hit it? And if it was interference, Francouer would have been called out.
    2005-08-17 17:41:44
    421.   LAT
    Just got home. SHould have stayed at work.

    Atl. needs to trade Francur. He's not this good. Surely the Mets would overpay.

    2005-08-17 17:42:44
    422.   Spageticus
    405 Born in Corona, raised in Redlands.
    2005-08-17 17:48:41
    423.   oldbear
    I thought Jonathan Broxton was supposed to be good. Did he walk this many guys in AA?
    2005-08-17 17:48:49
    424.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm assuming that everybody has decided that it's time to eat.
    2005-08-17 17:53:15
    425.   popup
    I am just back from a day game in Tacoma with Vegas in town. Vegas lost 5-3 in 10 innings. Young lined a double to right; he did not have any difficult fielding plays. Most of the Vegas lineup was older guys. Edwards was at first and Rose caught. Mahomes in relief got the loss.

    Stan from Tacoma

    2005-08-17 17:53:35
    426.   werthgagne31
    423-- oldbear, that's broxton's only weakness, he's had a low h/9 and hr/9 and a high k/9, his w/9 is a little high.
    overall he's got good numbers, but he has to work on getting his w/9 down.
    2005-08-17 17:54:41
    427.   overkill94
    421 Unless they get the moon I don't think they're selling, although apparently his lack of plate discipline might let the league catch up with him soon.
    2005-08-17 17:54:53
    428.   Colorado Blue
    422 - My wife lived in Redlands for about 10 years. Her fondest memories of youth are from there.

    Now she has to live with me...

    2005-08-17 17:56:38
    429.   ddger
    Tracy should give Braz some work today.
    2005-08-17 17:58:10
    430.   ddger
    Is there a site where you get certain batter/pitcher splits?
    2005-08-17 17:58:26
    431.   Bob Timmermann
    Tracy will likely be giving everybody some work tonight at this rate.

    Everybody could get into the game except Sanchez.

    2005-08-17 17:58:57
    432.   Bob Timmermann
    430
    Yahoo sports gives batter vs pitcher splits.
    2005-08-17 18:01:16
    433.   ddger
    I wonder if everything is okay with O Perez mentally. He didn't seem to be into this game from the beginning.
    2005-08-17 18:02:05
    434.   Steve
    And Broxton K's Andruw Jones. Is somebody keeping track of the MVP candidates Broxton has struck out, in addition to the 28 banjo hitters he's walked?
    2005-08-17 18:02:27
    435.   Bob Timmermann
    433
    The thing is that O Perez has games like this a lot. I think he's far more emotional than Weaver.
    2005-08-17 18:02:39
    436.   werthgagne31
    broxton's a guy you only bring in at the beginning of an inning because of his walks.
    if he brings down his walks, then you could use him any way.
    2005-08-17 18:03:26
    437.   Bob Timmermann
    Robles starts the comeback!

    Or at least the attempt to end the shutout.

    2005-08-17 18:04:07
    438.   ddger
    Thanks Bob.

    I was trying to look up Valentin against Hudson to see why he was starting. Valentin was only 4 fo 17 so it's not like he's really lighting him up.

    2005-08-17 18:04:30
    439.   Bob Timmermann
    The Padres-Marlins game is already over.
    2005-08-17 18:05:13
    440.   natepurcell
    broxtons walk rate at AA was fine.
    2005-08-17 18:05:30
    441.   Bob Timmermann
    The Twins-White Sox game, which started an hour after this one, is already in the fifth.

    That's Santana vs. Buerhle so there aren't many baserunners.

    2005-08-17 18:07:40
    442.   Bob Timmermann
    An Olney for Milton!
    2005-08-17 18:10:15
    443.   LAT
    433 I wonder if everything is okay with O Perez mentally.

    What about MB he seems completly lost.

    Odalis went home for personal reasoms a few days ago. Don't know the reason but I assume its his mother's health. We know from the play-offs last year that he doesn't pitch well when his mind is elsewhere.

    2005-08-17 18:10:54
    444.   natepurcell
    broxtons walk rate in AA was 2.87/9IP

    his k:bb ratio was 3.41:1

    2005-08-17 18:12:29
    445.   LAT
    Is it me or does Valentine look like he lost all his power. Even when he makes good contact the ball doesn't carry.
    2005-08-17 18:12:39
    446.   Bob Timmermann
    Giants still lead 3-2 going to the bottom of the 8th.
    2005-08-17 18:13:40
    447.   LAT
    Phillips is still trying to run to first. . .someone get out a clander and time him.
    2005-08-17 18:13:53
    448.   natepurcell
    ive noticed the same thing regarding valentin.

    his power is completely gone. and that was the only plus quality about him. oh well.

    2005-08-17 18:13:57
    449.   Bob Timmermann
    3-0 Redbirds over the DBacks in the 5th.
    2005-08-17 18:14:50
    450.   Steve
    I can smell the clutch coming from Phillips now. Or is that rotting flesh?
    Show/Hide Comments 451-500
    2005-08-17 18:15:14
    451.   ddger
    at this moment, I would rather have Cruz starting instead of Valentin
    2005-08-17 18:16:05
    452.   werthgagne31
    444-- my fault, i thought his w/9 was a little above 3.
    a high 2 point something is fine.
    i tried looking it up right now to make sure but minorleaguebaseball.com deletes the players stats once he is no longer on the team.
    2005-08-17 18:16:20
    453.   Icaros
    I think I see Jose Cruz Jr.
    2005-08-17 18:16:27
    454.   Bob Timmermann
    Cruz is 3 for 30 in his career against Hudson, which is why he was likely not in the lineup.
    2005-08-17 18:16:56
    455.   ddger
    Our former closer has now officially taken over Erickson's role.
    2005-08-17 18:17:35
    456.   LAT
    451 Nice call. Cruz in for Valintine.

    Good spot for Yhency.

    2005-08-17 18:18:23
    457.   Icaros
    Cruz shouldn't wear his pants the way Choi does; he'll never play.
    2005-08-17 18:19:22
    458.   Icaros
    454 - What was he against Smoltz?
    2005-08-17 18:20:21
    459.   ddger
    I guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow to start our 3 game winning streak.
    2005-08-17 18:21:02
    460.   oldbear
    Valentin, Izturis, and Phillips are big drag on the lineup.

    Imagine what Ledee, Choi/Saenz, and Perez could do if they replaced them on an everyday basis

    Good things friends.

    Surprised Tracy cant see that.

    2005-08-17 18:21:29
    461.   Bob Timmermann
    Cruz was 0 for 2 against Smoltz.
    2005-08-17 18:21:51
    462.   ddger
    Braz pitched well in non save situation today.
    2005-08-17 18:21:57
    463.   Steve
    Just another scoreless inning in a save sit...

    Uh...wait...um...

    2005-08-17 18:22:03
    464.   Icaros
    460 - But that would be the unsavviest team of all time.
    2005-08-17 18:22:27
    465.   oldbear
    if there was a way for DePo to remove Izturis, Valentin, Phillips, Repko from the roster.. I believe that not even Jim Tracy could mess up that lineup.
    2005-08-17 18:23:03
    466.   Icaros
    Cruz was 0 for 2 against Smoltz.

    Oh okay, no way he'd be able to hit him either.

    2005-08-17 18:25:07
    467.   Bob Timmermann
    Now Cruz is 3 for 31 against Hudson.
    2005-08-17 18:25:18
    468.   LAT
    I never thought i would say this, but in the last few weeks Steve Lyons has done a very nice job. He was especially good paired up with that idiot Albert Jr. over the weekend and in general he makes some nice observations that Charlie completly misses. They have developed a good give and take as the season has progressed. He still makes the occasional stupid statement but does bring a solid player perspective. The guy is growing on me. . .a little.
    2005-08-17 18:26:33
    469.   Jim Hitchcock
    This game is every bit as exciting as watching Tunisia in the World Cup.
    2005-08-17 18:27:52
    470.   natepurcell
    wow, elbert is on a role. 3IP and 7k
    2005-08-17 18:28:00
    471.   Icaros
    Now Cruz is 3 for 31 against Hudson.

    Have his numbers versus Smoltz changed since I last asked?

    2005-08-17 18:28:34
    472.   ddger
    Nate, is Suns game on today.
    2005-08-17 18:29:07
    473.   LAT
    465 Didn't you see where Depo said he agrees with JT more than disagrees and has no plans to replace him?
    2005-08-17 18:29:08
    474.   Bob Timmermann
    Tunisia beat Kenya 1-0 to stay atop its qualifying group for the World Cup.
    2005-08-17 18:30:11
    475.   Jim Hitchcock
    468 - Yeah, I agree, LAT. He doesn'tsound forced, and has acquired an air of inspired goofiness.
    2005-08-17 18:30:20
    476.   natepurcell
    Nate, is Suns game on today.

    nah, they are away. they are losing, their 11 game winning streak is hanging by the thread!

    2005-08-17 18:30:56
    477.   Bob Timmermann
    471

    Jose Cruz's splits are always changing. It's like seeing how much storage space I have on my Gmail account.

    2005-08-17 18:32:50
    478.   Bob Timmermann
    Alou trying to have Lowry go the distance in Cincinnati tonight.

    He's two outs away.

    2005-08-17 18:35:22
    479.   Bob Timmermann
    Lowry is being pulled with a blister problem. So there's hope for the Reds!
    2005-08-17 18:35:22
    480.   ddger
    Even if we lose tonight and Giants win we'll still be ahead by 1.
    2005-08-17 18:35:39
    481.   oldbear
    Cesar Izturis tonite saw a total of 9 pitches in 4 plate appearances. Splendid.
    2005-08-17 18:35:57
    482.   Jim Hitchcock
    Uh, Charlie, actually he hasn't retired all 6 batters he's faced...
    2005-08-17 18:37:53
    483.   Steve
    It would be easier if players played to the cliche attached to them. These non-save scoreless innings are seriously messing with Tony Jackson's copy.
    2005-08-17 18:42:02
    484.   LAT
    Dunn just struck out
    2005-08-17 18:42:31
    485.   Bob Timmermann
    Kearns walks and Dunn Ks against Eyre.

    Pena up for the Reds to face Hawkins.

    2005-08-17 18:43:32
    486.   ddger
    481. For the season, Phillips (3.48)is worse than Izzy (3.64) in pitches at bat.
    2005-08-17 18:44:40
    487.   Bob Timmermann
    Oh boy! Sean Casey pinch hitting for Pena!

    The fans in Cincinnati are ecstatic.

    2005-08-17 18:46:06
    488.   Bob Timmermann
    Casey flies out to deep center to end the game.

    Giants 3, Reds 2.

    2005-08-17 18:46:15
    489.   JSN
    468 LAT - I have noticed that myself lately. His pros outway his cons as a color guy.
    2005-08-17 18:46:32
    490.   ddger
    Tracy should use Dessens and save Schmoll for close games.
    2005-08-17 18:47:04
    491.   Steve
    They are not so ecstatic anymore.

    A cautionary tale.

    2005-08-17 18:47:31
    492.   ddger
    Has Carrara moved ahead of Schmoll as our setup guy now?
    2005-08-17 18:49:19
    493.   Bob Timmermann
    Carl Everett singled to lead off the seventh to break up Santana's no-hitter.
    2005-08-17 18:54:37
    494.   werthgagne31
    492--- with tracy, i wouldn't be surprised.
    2005-08-17 18:55:36
    495.   Bob Timmermann
    Schmoll has been lights on today!
    2005-08-17 18:57:10
    496.   Bob Timmermann
    The Padres-Marlins finished in 1:55 tonight.
    2005-08-17 18:58:36
    497.   Bob Timmermann
    Update for Steve:

    Tampa Bay has gone ahead of the Yankees 7-6 in the 8th.

    AL Wild Card ramifications and all that.

    2005-08-17 18:59:34
    498.   Icaros
    Didn't you see where Depo said he agrees with JT more than disagrees and has no plans to replace him?

    Don't you remember when DePo said he didn't want to trade Shawn Green?

    2005-08-17 19:01:34
    499.   Bob Timmermann
    5-0 St. Louis over Arizona.
    2005-08-17 19:02:43
    500.   Icaros
    It's like seeing how much storage space I have on my Gmail account.

    I couldn't even get a Gmail account.

    Show/Hide Comments 501-550
    2005-08-17 19:04:16
    501.   Bob Timmermann
    Icaros send an email to my gmail account and you can have an invite!

    They give them out to just about everyone.

    2005-08-17 19:05:23
    502.   Icaros
    501 - I only know your Earthlink address.
    2005-08-17 19:06:06
    503.   Bob Timmermann
    Send it there, that mail gets forwarded.
    2005-08-17 19:06:45
    504.   fanerman
    Clutch GIDP by Phillips after a Werth single.

    Werth continues to hit pretty well.

    2005-08-17 19:07:41
    505.   Icaros
    503 - Okay.
    2005-08-17 19:08:19
    506.   Bob Timmermann
    Wow, that game was really dismal.

    But that happens during the year. And that wasn't entirely unexpected. I didn't think we'd fare well against Hudson.

    I fear tomorrow's game because the Dodgers and guys named Thomson don't get along well.

    2005-08-17 19:09:07
    507.   Steve
    Yankees lose.
    2005-08-17 19:10:25
    508.   fanerman
    i figured they'd lose. We'd have to be pretty lucky to beat Smoltz and Hudson. If we can win tomorrow I'll be impressed.
    2005-08-17 19:10:58
    509.   Bob Timmermann
    507

    Steve,
    I actually don't mind the A's. I don't mind the Angels. I would like to see both of them make the playoffs especially at the expense of the Yankees.

    But please don't tell me you are a UCLA football fan.

    If so, I will have to hunt you down.

    2005-08-17 19:11:04
    510.   b1ued0dger
    Suns Game - Bases loaded with 1 out for Sergio Garcia. Score is tied 2-2 in the top of the 8th.
    2005-08-17 19:12:19
    511.   b1ued0dger
    Garcia singled to give the Suns the lead 4-2.
    2005-08-17 19:13:38
    512.   Icaros
    509 - After seeing his affect on teams, don't you want Steve to root for UCLA?
    2005-08-17 19:14:05
    513.   ddger
    501. Bob, can I get an invite for gmail account also?
    2005-08-17 19:16:40
    514.   ddger
    It's better to lose like this than a close game. Somehow it's easier to forget this kind of game.
    2005-08-17 19:16:58
    515.   Steve
    You mean, after all I've done, it's UCLA football fandom that will drive you to hunt me down?

    Stay home. You have nothing to fear from me. The mormon quarterback will be smited for not honoring his commitment to BYU anyway. :)

    2005-08-17 19:17:28
    516.   Bob Timmermann
    If you want an "exclusive" invite, try
    my first initial, last name and then gmail.com
    2005-08-17 19:18:29
    517.   Bob Timmermann
    515

    It's likely that UCLA will have the Mormon quarterback who won't be any good.

    2005-08-17 19:20:55
    518.   fanerman
    514 - Yeah I agree.
    2005-08-17 19:21:49
    519.   Icaros
    I think Bob and Steve should meet for a game of chess...inside a steel cage.
    2005-08-17 19:32:02
    520.   LAT
    498 Icaros, Ouch. . . but true.
    2005-08-17 19:34:54
    521.   GoBears
    509
    Go Bears.
    S'all I'm sayin'
    2005-08-17 19:35:39
    522.   LAT
    Steve, take it easy on us UCLA football fans. We have it hard enough as it is. I have to be a fan cause that's how I was raised. Even if I wanted, which I wouldn't, there is no room on the USC wagon. Didn't you hear Trojan Football has become the new Lakers in LA. Everyone loves a winner. I married the UCLA football team for better or for worse when I was 5 yrs old. I'm still waiting for the better.
    2005-08-17 19:37:04
    523.   Icaros
    520 - Didn't mean to sound snide, LAT, but the prospect of Tracy getting fired someday is all I have right now.
    2005-08-17 19:40:41
    524.   Icaros
    I married the UCLA football team for better or for worse when I was 5 yrs old. I'm still waiting for the better.

    That's pretty young for marriage. You probably should have played the field until at least your 30s.

    2005-08-17 19:42:26
    525.   Icaros
    Did the Suns end up winning?
    2005-08-17 19:42:41
    526.   Icaros
    Cycle!
    2005-08-17 19:42:58
    527.   Steve
    I did not meet my first USC football fan until I was in college.
    2005-08-17 19:45:06
    528.   ddger
    Suns leading 5-3 top of 9th. Too bad Suns games don't count up here.
    2005-08-17 19:47:08
    529.   Icaros
    528 - Thank you, sir.
    2005-08-17 19:49:15
    530.   b1ued0dger
    Ruggiano just hit a Grand Slam!!!
    2005-08-17 19:49:39
    531.   ddger
    Grand Slam by Ruggiano, now 9-3. It looks like the Suns will win their 12th in a row.
    2005-08-17 19:51:30
    532.   ddger
    If only the Dodgers can win 4 in a row.
    2005-08-17 19:53:32
    533.   Icaros
    I'm not too familiar with Ruggiano. What position does he play? Is he considered a legit prospect?
    2005-08-17 20:00:55
    534.   ddger
    dated 7/21/2005 from http://www.theminorsfirst.com/atm/atfsl.html

    Justin Ruggiano, drafted in the 25th round in 2004, was apparently a 4-year college player at Texas A & M. He is not in the LA Top 30, but he earned a promotion to AA by hitting .307, 900 OPS in half a season at Vero. 9 HRs, 16 SB. He has some size, but but appears to be more of a line drive hitter. You always like to see a college player hit AA in his 2nd season in pro ball, and he has. I am not sure the Dodgers know what to make of him-is he a prospect or an organization player? One clue: they actually let him pitch 3 innings one night for Jacksonville.

    2005-08-17 20:01:23
    535.   LAT
    523 and 524. Icaros, I know you are only kidding around. It is true that you can't always believe what our cagey GM says. Which is a good thing. How effective can you be when you telegraph your plans. (BTW, Green hitting .317 since June 1 (Gotta get it where I can)).

    As for marriage at 5. When you get dragged to the Collisium every Sat. you don't have much choice. Its compounded when you go to a school that is the only State University other than U of Alaska without a footabll team.

    Bob T? Do you have this one?

    2005-08-17 20:03:24
    536.   ddger
    Suns win 12th in a row 9-4.
    2005-08-17 20:03:37
    537.   Steve
    Rhode Island?
    2005-08-17 20:06:30
    538.   LAT
    537. Good guess Steve. I actually lived half my life in RI. But URI does have a football team.
    2005-08-17 20:07:14
    539.   Icaros
    534 - Thanks a lot, ddger. Great info. It'd be nice to have some legit outfielders in the system.

    535 - I went to a State University that has been without a football team since killing George Allen.

    2005-08-17 20:08:10
    540.   Icaros
    539 - Or did you mean U of Something?
    2005-08-17 20:08:10
    541.   natepurcell
    ruggiano is 23 yrs old, so if he performs well in AA, hes a legit prospect.

    wow, 12 in a row for the suns. amazing!

    2005-08-17 20:10:21
    542.   Icaros
    541 - Nate, what happens if one team wins both halves of the AA season? No playoffs?
    2005-08-17 20:10:58
    543.   LAT
    Alma College does not qualify as a state university. Nor does Marquette or Eastern Michigan. If Mich is your alma mater you don't have too much to complain about. Especially this year.
    2005-08-17 20:10:59
    544.   Marty
    My first College football experience was listening to USC on a transistor radio against Notre Dame in 1964. Notre Dame was unbeaten and number 1 and leading 17-0 at halftime. SC (with Mike Garrett at HB) came back and beat them 20-17. I've been an SC fan ever since. I was subsequently taught to hate both UCLA and Notre Dame by the old man. I can tolerate UCLA now, but I still loath Notre Dame.
    2005-08-17 20:12:15
    545.   LAT
    540 University of ________.

    Clue: featured on ESPN's 50/50 this week.

    2005-08-17 20:13:58
    546.   Marty
    535. Long Beach State?
    2005-08-17 20:14:09
    547.   LAT
    Marty I ffel the same way about USC and ND. Can tolorate USC. In fact, I can even bring myself to say they deserve to be No. 1. Still hate ND (they are worse than Texans --if you saw my rant above somewhere)
    2005-08-17 20:14:15
    548.   natepurcell
    Nate, what happens if one team wins both halves of the AA season? No playoffs?

    that i dont know. i am not too familar with the playoff rules.

    looking at columbus, scott elbert has probably pitched the best game of his proffesional career.

    7IP 2H 1ER 3bb 13k

    2005-08-17 20:14:22
    549.   Fearing Blue
    #284: Hey Jon, you can put me down for Cambridge / Boston, MA. I'm just catching up after tuning out in the 5th to watch Constantine. It appears I chose well.
    2005-08-17 20:16:38
    550.   Marty
    LAT. I totally understand anyone's hatred of SC. It's just the way I was brought up. I said in an earlier post that OJ Simpson was one of my childhood heroes. How twisted is that?
    Show/Hide Comments 551-600
    2005-08-17 20:16:40
    551.   Icaros
    Marty, if you had directed 546 to 539 you would be correct.
    2005-08-17 20:17:14
    552.   Marty
    But I have to admit, I'm really enjoying the current run by the Cardinal and Gold.
    2005-08-17 20:18:13
    553.   LAT
    Clue no. 2: Syacuse is no fan of my school
    2005-08-17 20:18:30
    554.   Icaros
    550 - Why so twisted? That's an innocent man you're talking about :-)
    2005-08-17 20:18:39
    555.   Marty
    Yeah, I was thinking LAT had the post on killing George Allen.
    2005-08-17 20:20:18
    556.   Steve
    UConn has a football team
    2005-08-17 20:20:52
    557.   LAT
    552 Marty it will be interesting to see what impact the coaching staff has. We speculate about a change in manangers, and I'm not sure it makes that big a diffrence although I understand we want the best chance to win. But at least in footabll we will see just how much that great staff meant to the team's success.
    2005-08-17 20:21:01
    558.   ddger
    548. I think the rule is:

    If the same team wins both halves, then that team plays for the championship against one of the remaining teams that has the best overall winning percentage over both halves. Also the team winning both halves has more home games.

    2005-08-17 20:21:18
    559.   Marty
    I don't think Cal State Northridge has a team now, but they used too. Are you talk,ing about when you were in school, or currently (or both)?
    2005-08-17 20:22:51
    560.   Eric L
    548

    When Riverside had a team in the Cal, the year I worked for them, I believe that Lake Elsinore won the 1st and 2nd half titles.

    I can't remember why, but Riverside ended up playing them in the playoffs. Either they were the runner up in the second half or had the next best overall record.

    I would imagine that the Southern League has a similar type of thing if a team wins both halves. I can't see the teams giving up extra revenue.

    2005-08-17 20:23:48
    561.   LAT
    Late for dinner plans so I have to give it up: University of Vermont. Most people don't even know there is a school in Vermont or that people from Vermont can even read.
    2005-08-17 20:23:48
    562.   Marty
    I think it's as much Carrol's success as Chow's. But, yes it will be interesting to see if that is a factor. Plus, it's really hard to do 3 years in a row even if you retain your staff. All the breaks that went SC's way the last two years will probably go against them this year.
    2005-08-17 20:24:01
    563.   Jim Hitchcock
    Costas NOW is airing a story on Doc Ellis, who says he pitched his no hitter while on LSD (he didn't know he was due to pitch that day).
    2005-08-17 20:24:36
    564.   Icaros
    Then I guess the Suns shouldn't care too much about winning the second half.
    2005-08-17 20:25:19
    565.   LAT
    562 Marty, that last sentence sounds alot like our beloved Dodgers.

    Have a good evening all.

    2005-08-17 20:25:21
    566.   Jim Hitchcock
    Damn! I don't know squat about college football, but for some reason I was thinking of Vermont.
    2005-08-17 20:25:35
    567.   Marty
    Jim, that's why I've always been a big fan of Ellis.
    2005-08-17 20:29:42
    568.   Jim Hitchcock
    I would imagine he crossed up the catcher more than once during that game.
    2005-08-17 20:31:28
    569.   Bob Timmermann
    I knew it was Vermont, but I was out playing groceries.

    If anyone wanted to play chess against me, I would pity you.

    Because I am the world's worst chess player. I can't see two moves ahead. I've played friends and they've told me not to make certain moves because they wanted to play longer.

    2005-08-17 20:33:55
    570.   Steve
    If that is the case, a chess match between me and Bob could be the first match in history where someone checkmated himself.
    2005-08-17 20:35:28
    571.   Bob Timmermann
    The Brewers are two outs away from a 2-0 shutout win at Coors Field.

    The NL West is headed for a 1-4 night and being outscored 25-5.

    2005-08-17 20:40:34
    572.   Xeifrank
    Feel free to challenge me (Xeifrank) at net-chess.com I'm looking for someone to beat up on so I can improve my rating. :)
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 20:43:23
    573.   Steve
    I always remember what the little castles are called because that's how I've been feeling every time I see the Dodger lineup card the last two months.
    2005-08-17 20:49:43
    574.   Xeifrank
    From the sounds of it, Steve is to chess, what Buntermaker is to managing a baseball team. vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 20:52:11
    575.   Eric L
    573

    I think the Braves must have bought a better chess set than the Dodgers, cause their castles have been alot better.

    2005-08-17 20:52:28
    576.   Steve
    If Tracy played chess, he would play with 10 pawns, and keep his rooks and one bishop on the bench in case any of the pawns reached the other side late in the game.
    2005-08-17 20:53:18
    577.   Steve
    575 -- Hard to tell, because the Dodgers don't play their castles, they bench them.
    2005-08-17 21:01:03
    578.   Icaros
    Too bad our queen is on the DL with a broken wrist.
    2005-08-17 21:02:31
    579.   ddger
    Tracy thinks he's better chess player than his opponent.

    Tracy doesn't use all his pieces (like giving himself a handicap).

    2005-08-17 21:02:33
    580.   Bob Timmermann
    And the king is on the DL with a bad elbow.

    I think it's time that someone captures Jose Valentin en passant.

    2005-08-17 21:10:16
    581.   Steve
    Does "en passant" mean "on a skewer?"
    2005-08-17 21:13:21
    582.   Bob Timmermann
    "En passant" is one of those chess terms that people have tried to explain to me and I've never caught on.

    Needless to say, when I played somebody in chess, I had a pawn captured "en passant".

    2005-08-17 21:16:32
    583.   Kayaker7
    582 Isn't that the father of the modern short story? Guy de en Passant? ;-)
    2005-08-17 21:16:49
    584.   Eric L
    I think Joe McDonnell would like DePo captured en passant.
    2005-08-17 21:18:15
    585.   Steve
    Couldn't get a skewer through Joe McDonnell...we'll have to try something else.
    2005-08-17 21:24:50
    586.   ddger
    The last 3 innings of a baseball game can be considered like a chess match. Tracy likes to think 3 or 4 moves ahead anticipating his opponents moves but the opponent rarely follows Tracy's strategy.
    2005-08-17 21:38:19
    587.   Xeifrank
    It's amazing that Braves rookie slugger Francouer hasn't walked in over 100 at bats so far this year, yet he maintains an OPS of 1.113 not bad for a rook. vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 21:40:11
    588.   Xeifrank
    586. But in the last three innings while the other manager is playing chess, Buntermaker is either playing Yahtzee(sp?) or Sorry.
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 21:47:12
    589.   Eric L
    Or Aggravation, Boggle.. something like that
    2005-08-17 21:47:28
    590.   fanerman
    Any speculation on why Tracy continues to play Valentin?

    Valentin has a low BA with RISP, but a fairly high OPS (a line of .192/.410/.462).

    From 2002-2004, with RISP, he's had a decent BA but a good OPS (a line of .271/.353/.562).

    He tends to fit the low BA, (used to be) high OPS, lots of K's and BB's mold of Cruz, Choi, etc., but why does he play?

    Either Tracy favors him for an unknown/illogical reason or Tracy knows about OPS but values it with RISP, right? I'm guessing it's the former.

    2005-08-17 21:50:38
    591.   Eric L
    Or Valentin gets to play because he is a veteran and has a somewhat proven track record.
    2005-08-17 21:51:36
    592.   King of the Hobos
    590 Because Ledee and Repko were considered too hurt to play today (from the notes), and Tracy already hates Cruz (did he have some relationship with Schrager? was Schrager the heart and soul of Vegas?)
    2005-08-17 21:52:58
    593.   Eric L
    591

    Re: My own post..

    I don't necessarily endorse that viewpoint.. I'm just throwing it out there.

    2005-08-17 21:53:36
    594.   Eric Enders
    1. Posted by Eric Enders
    I think Valentin continues to play because:

    1) The .197 sample size is small and over a 14-year career, he's shown that he's not really a .197 hitter, and

    2) Despite the low average, his OBP is .324 -- better than Izturis, Phillips, Repko, etc., and comparable to that of Choi and Werth.

    2005-08-17 21:53:57
    595.   Steve
    Valentin plays, like everyone else, because he can't hit. If he was actually doing this --

    He tends to fit the low BA, []high OPS, lots of K's and BB's mold of Cruz, Choi, etc. --

    he wouldn't play.

    But he is safely crappy, and therefore perfect for fifth in the lineup.

    2005-08-17 21:54:01
    596.   Xeifrank
    Mike Sweeney and Ken Hamstring Jr both cleared waivers. With our savvy GM we don't have to worry about the Dodgers wasting money on either one... but I wouldn't put it past the LAA owner to pick up one of the two. vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 21:54:22
    597.   fanerman
    Cruz is also a veteran with a somewhat proven track record, right?

    What characteristics would make Valentin "scrappy"? His good defense even though he makes lots of errors? His moustache? His ability to play multiple positions? He's an infielder who lost his job (though due to injury and not inability to throw a baseball) and Tracy doesn't want to hurt his feelings?

    2005-08-17 21:56:56
    598.   fanerman
    If you haven't guessed, I'm not trying to rationalize his starting. I'm trying to see why Tracy would want him there, based on Tracy's usual M.O.
    2005-08-17 21:58:03
    599.   King of the Hobos
    597 Has to be the facial hair. That seems to be the common theme between Choi, Perez, and Cruz, they don't have any
    2005-08-17 21:58:25
    600.   Xeifrank
    597. Reasons the following players play, when they shouldn't be.

    Phillips: Goggles.
    Valentin: Mustache (Buntermaker is a sucker for guys with mustaches).
    Izturis: Cool sounding name?

    So following this logic Choi should change his last name to Choizturis, grow some facial hair and wear some specs.
    vr, Xei

    Show/Hide Comments 601-650
    2005-08-17 21:59:17
    601.   Steve
    He would also have to stop being a large Asian, which might be difficult for him to do.
    2005-08-17 21:59:43
    602.   fanerman
    Sadly, I think 600 is closer to the truth than anything I've said.
    2005-08-17 22:00:14
    603.   fanerman
    601 - Michael Jackson could change his race. Maybe Choi can, too.
    2005-08-17 22:00:52
    604.   Xeifrank
    Giants are only 6 games out, one behind the Dodgers and two behind the D-Backs. This is such an exciting pennant race! :)
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 22:02:14
    605.   King of the Hobos
    Gagne has facial hair and goggles. Tracy now thinks anyone with these attributes IS Gagne. Which is why I'm surprised it took so long for Sanchez to close. As for Izturis and Robles, I'm guessing there's something I'm missing. Maybe they have a really dirty cap a la Gagne. Can't be the weight, or the ethnicity. hmmm...
    2005-08-17 22:03:26
    606.   Eric Enders
    "So following this logic Choi should change his last name to Choizturis, grow some facial hair and wear some specs."
    ------------------

    Sounds like it would be a natural for the "move your cursor over the picture" feature at Dodger Blues.

    Seriously, though, you guys, some of this anti-Tracy stuff is turning into crazytalk. Not every problem with the Dodgers is due to some vaguely defined conspiracy involving the manager. Trust me.

    2005-08-17 22:05:21
    607.   fanerman
    605 - I think being small automatically gives you a couple "scrap" points. Small infielders look smoother while large ones look clumsier.

    Pitchers don't need to play defense (much) so Gagne's size isn't an issue. However, Choi can use the dirty cap (might as well have the dirty uni too).

    2005-08-17 22:05:59
    608.   Eric L
    But it is fun to speculate...
    2005-08-17 22:07:09
    609.   Steve
    And no crazier than playing Jason Phillips at first base.
    2005-08-17 22:07:35
    610.   Bob Timmermann
    606

    So, Tracy got to you didn't he, Eric? It figures. He has operatives all over the country with his mind control devices.

    2005-08-17 22:08:37
    611.   Eric Enders
    BTW, and I haven't read the whole thread so maybe somebody mentioned this already, but I love the fact that the Google ads are now trying to sell us apartments in Jacksonville.
    2005-08-17 22:09:10
    612.   Bob Timmermann
    Phillips at first base doesn't bother me as much as Valentin in left field. However, the Dodgers have fewer options for left field.
    2005-08-17 22:09:28
    613.   Eric Enders
    611 - No, he didn't get to me, I swear. He just asked me to play a little solitaire.
    2005-08-17 22:09:36
    614.   fanerman
    Choi's rode to success through non-baseball-skill-related-means:

    1) Change name to Choizturis
    2) Grow facial hair
    3) Wear goggles
    4) Make cap dirty
    5) Make uniform dirty (dive unnecessarily at all balls)
    6) Shrink

    2005-08-17 22:09:56
    615.   Xeifrank
    Perhaps Buntermaker has been hypnotized, like one of those guys in that old Charles Bronson movie 'Telefon'(http://tinyurl.com/9lrsl). Tracy is a planted agent of the Baseball Old School. Everything seems to be going normal then he gets a phone call before the game and he takes three of the better hitters out of the lineup. Then he gets another call during the game on the dugout phone and next thing you know he is bunting and taking the bat out of the hands of Bradley and Kent. vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 22:11:25
    616.   fanerman
    615 - Something like The Manchurian Manager? "There's a sleep in the Club House!"
    2005-08-17 22:11:46
    617.   Bob Timmermann
    Jeff Shaw.
    Jeffrey Shaw.
    Jeffrey Lee Shaw.
    2005-08-17 22:11:58
    618.   Eric Enders
    613 was in response to 610, not 611... if that makes sense.
    2005-08-17 22:13:35
    619.   King of the Hobos
    Could Choizturis keep Hee-Seop? Or would it have to become Hesar? Hesar Choizturis, just slips off the tongue
    2005-08-17 22:15:23
    620.   Steve
    619 -- Jason Choizturis.
    2005-08-17 22:15:51
    621.   fanerman
    619 - Hee-Seor Choizturis
    2005-08-17 22:18:30
    622.   popup
    I imagine Walt Alston is glad he did his managing before the internet. Went to the Vegas game in Tacoma today. Was a bit disconcerting to see a Dodger triple A team without Thurston on the roster. If anyone wants to second guess Royster, he had Edwards playing first today. I don't think Tracy ever did that.

    Stan in Tacoma

    2005-08-17 22:21:04
    623.   Eric L
    Does Royster have better options at 1st than Edwards?

    Nate knows the minor league teams way better than I, but my impression is that the Vegas team isn't very deep. They could use Repko I imagine.

    2005-08-17 22:22:06
    624.   Steve
    Alston didn't give Dick Tracewski 700 plate appearances a year.
    2005-08-17 22:24:24
    625.   King of the Hobos
    620 What was I thinking? Of course it has to be Jason. That alone has a nice "scrap" value.
    2005-08-17 22:24:53
    626.   Eric L
    Wow, that Vegas team is more terrible than I imagined.
    2005-08-17 22:25:15
    627.   fanerman
    625, 620 - Yeah. I feel like bopping myself over the head.
    2005-08-17 22:25:42
    628.   Steve
    And with Grabowski gone, there is a leftover Jason no one is using. Valentin is trying to steal it, though.
    2005-08-17 22:26:24
    629.   Xeifrank
    Any chance of Buntermaker getting himself ejected early in the game tomorrow?
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-17 22:27:40
    630.   fanerman
    620 - Jason, Jayson, or Ja(y)son?
    2005-08-17 22:29:05
    631.   Bob Timmermann
    622 624

    The big complaints about Alston was that he was out of touch with his players.

    And he eviscerated by the media and his own coaches after the 1962 playoff loss.

    2005-08-17 22:30:18
    632.   King of the Hobos
    623 At this point Young and Aybar are the only consistent starters. Everyone else plays where Roysters chooses, presumably out of a hat or with a dartboard. Nakamura has made several appearances at short, although Flores seems to have the position now. Schrager use to. When Aybar is DH, Nakamura will play 3B, but otherwise it's 1B or SS. Myrow will play 1B, or the OF. Ross, Chen, Stanley, and Grabowski man the OF, although there's plenty of other guys. Nixon or Rose at catcher, but even they play otherpositions frequently. Edwards plays 1B most now, and Theodorou plays any position that may not be filled. Every player on the Vegas team can play more than one position
    2005-08-17 22:30:47
    633.   Steve
    His own coaches?

    Speaking of coaches, is Gabor Paul going to have to change his name to Jim Bako?

    2005-08-17 22:31:38
    634.   Steve
    Can Myrow still hit, or are we past that?
    2005-08-17 22:34:48
    635.   Bob Timmermann
    633

    Leo Durocher pretty much told everyone that the Dodgers lost the 1962 playoff to the Giants because Alston mismanaged the 9th inning. And Durocher told people he would have done it differently.

    2005-08-17 22:37:27
    636.   Steve
    Durocher was scrappy. Feh.
    2005-08-17 22:38:02
    637.   Eric Enders
    In case anyone's interested...

    http://www.cafepress.com/freeheeseop

    2005-08-17 22:38:04
    638.   King of the Hobos
    The versatility of the 51s:

    Rose- C, 1B, LF
    Nixon- C, 1B, LF
    Myrow- 1B, corner OF
    Edwards- 3B, 1B, corner OF
    Nakamura- 3B, SS, 1B
    Young- 2B, RF
    Aybar- 3B, 2B
    Theodorou- C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF
    Flores-2B, 3B, SS
    Chen- corner OF
    Ross- OF
    Stanley- OF
    Grabowski- 1B, corner OF

    2005-08-17 22:38:06
    639.   Eric L
    IIRC Drysdale complained about '62 in his auto-bio. I could be wrong, though. It might have been Duke Snyder.
    2005-08-17 22:40:00
    640.   Eric L
    I'm having a hard time passing up the "Free Hee Sop" thong.. doesn't everyone need one of those?
    2005-08-17 22:40:27
    641.   Eric L
    even better.. Free Hee Seop thong.. ugh
    2005-08-17 22:43:16
    642.   Steve
    I love the Mr. Ed episode with Leo though.

    Jason Phillips could never dream of having a clothing line.

    2005-08-17 22:50:34
    643.   Bob Timmermann
    John Roseboro wrote about '62 in his bio at length. He disagreed with Alston's decision, but respected Alston for not losing his composure with his team out to kill him.
    2005-08-18 06:18:42
    644.   TerryAustin
    632 Sounds like Royster could be a candidate for Tony LaRussa's coaching staff next year.
    2005-08-18 08:36:26
    645.   Brendan
    You guys are dreaming way too big with Choizturis. Need baby steps.

    Jason Choiko is much better. at least will see him a couple of times a week with a name like that. let's be realistic.

    2005-08-18 08:56:21
    646.   jasonungar05
    I have decided to go with a daily recap of my favorite Downing/Monday Gem from the previous day. Feel free to create your own.

    Thankfully I didn't see any of the game on TV. Just heard a little on the radio.

    Monday: "And you ask me my opinion, I already told you, ground ball, this could be trouble and the dodgers come up empty with runners on again"

    Downing: "I like to think the pitchers on the other side made some good pitches"

    Cut to commercial.

    So in the car, I'm like, welp, I guess they turned it.

    2005-08-18 08:58:25
    647.   Louis in SF
    Regarding 62, Bob you probably know this but Snider was the person who kept on saying that they should bring in Drysdale-Durocher also complained, but ALston clearly mismanaged the situation, but becasue O'Malley disliked Durocher ALston kept his job... There is a book called Chasing October by David Platt that is a decent read on a very painful Dodger season. As ugly as 05 will be in Dodger history it pales in comparison to the pain that 62 caused Dodger fans.

    While everything should not be blamed on Tracy, I think Eric has it right, not playing Choi tonight at first after his good game last night makes so little sense. Phillips nor Choi should have a great history of at bats against him-since Hudson was in the AL and don't believe that either Phillips with the Mets or Choi with Miami and CHicago played the A's, and if they did it could only be a few games. But more important with 5 games left in humid conditions and a young rookie catcher. Logic should hold that Phillips gets his playing time backing up Navarro. I wish Boston or Cleveland or Minnisota wanted a catcher for down the stretch and we could get a prospect and then bring up Martin and split the time between Navarro and see who plays the best. It won't happen but I can dream

    2005-08-18 11:07:57
    648.   Bob Timmermann
    Alston's greatest appeal to O'Malley was that he was a company man. O'Malley didn't really want any one calling too much attention to himself calling the shots. That was Dressen's downfall.

    While Lasorda was loud and outspoken, he was definitely a company man.

    2005-08-18 11:12:11
    649.   Kayaker7
    Our suspicions have been confirmed. Baseball Prospectus has determined that Izturis is among the worst baserunner in baseball. Mostly due to his caught stealing numbers, he is the 8th worst baserunner. Incidentally, he is even worse than Jason f'ing Phillips, who is the 10th worst. The full list. SOB is not what your scream out when you see Izzy get caught stealing. It is the Stealing-adjusted OBP:

    Worst Baserunners, 2005

    Player SB CS EqBR OBP SOB +/-
    Matt Lawton 16 9 -4.3 .380 .351 -.029
    Phil Nevin 1 0 -4.0 .301 .273 -.028
    Chris Snyder 0 1 -2.9 .297 .272 -.025
    Mike Cuddyer 3 3 -2.7 .341 .317 -.024
    Sammy Sosa 1 1 -3.8 .303 .280 -.023
    Brad Ausmus 3 2 -2.7 .328 .305 -.023
    Freddy Sanchez 0 1 -2.6 .330 .307 -.023
    Cesar Izturis 7 8 -1.6 .306 .286 -.020
    Frank Catalanotto 0 2 -1.8 .353 .335 -.018
    Jason Phillips 0 1 -2.4 .291 .273 -.018
    Melvin Mora 7 3 -3.4 .343 .325 -.018
    Hank Blalock 1 0 -4.2 .338 .321 -.017
    Daryle Ward 0 2 -2.1 .328 .311 -.017
    Omar Vizquel 19 9 -2.6 .334 .317 -.017
    Kevin Millar 0 1 -2.5 .357 .341 -.016

    2005-08-18 18:21:49
    650.   Eric Enders
    I would hereby like to thank the Toaster for making this my most productive workday in quite a while. ;)
    Show/Hide Comments 651-700
    2005-08-18 18:26:03
    651.   Linkmeister
    Yeah, we get a 5-run inning and I come over to check what's being said, only to learn nothing's being said. ;) Ah well, I wanted to learn more about prions anyway.
    2005-08-18 18:28:11
    652.   Humma Kavula
    O Robles error puts C Jones on 1B; A Jones homer makes it 7-3.

    Does Weaver still always lose it in the 6th?

    2005-08-18 18:28:50
    653.   Humma Kavula
    Followed by A La Roche homer; 7-4.
    2005-08-18 18:29:44
    654.   Telemachos
    DT loads and Weaver gives up back-to-back homers. Coincidence or horrible conspiracy?
    2005-08-18 18:32:08
    655.   franklin
    Jeff Weaver, leading disciple of the Dreifort School of Mid-Inning Meltdowns
    2005-08-18 18:33:59
    656.   Telemachos
    If Langerhans gets on here I'll officially be worried.
    2005-08-18 18:35:50
    657.   Humma Kavula
    No worries for Telemachos.
    2005-08-18 18:49:36
    658.   Telemachos
    Too true. :)

    SF lost (big smile), SD lost (bigger smile), and St. Louis has scored a couple of runs against the D-Backs (if AZ loses it'll be icing on the cake).

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