Looks like Edwin Jackson will pitch Monday. At least that's the buzz this morning. Anyone else think this is too fast? I mean the guy got killed in Vegas and is just now getting some confidence back in JAX. If the Marlins hammer him how much does this sit back his pretty good comeback?

I guess the reasoning is let's see what he has before Sept call-ups but I think they might be making a mistake with this one. The guy should be handled carefully for at least a few more AA starts I think.

I'd go with Dessens and hope for the best rather than potentially wrecking Jackson.

Let's huddle around the radio today:

Random Dodger game callback

August 20, 1982

Coming off of a World Series championship, the 1982 Dodgers looked like they were headed back to the postseason again after they kept their first place lead at 3 games over the Atlanta Braves as Fernando Valenzuela threw a 2-hit shutout and Ron Cey hit a solo home run to account for all of the scoring in a 1-0 Dodgers win over the Pirates at Three Rivers Stadium. A crowd of 15,245 looked on as the Dodgers improved to 69-54.

There wasn't any sophomore jinx for Valenzuela. He would go 19-13 in 1982 with a 2.87 ERA. His strikeout total dropped to 199 from 245 in the strike-shortened 1981 season. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young Award.

On this day in August, Cey hit a solo home run off of Larry McWilliams in the second, but the Dodgers did little else, striking out 10 times overall with just five hits. But Valenzuela was even better, allowing a first inning single to Dale Berra and a fifth inning single to Johnny Ray. Valenzuela set down 14 of the last 15 Pirates, eight by strikeout.

1982 was a turbulent year for the Dodgers. The Braves won their first 13 games of the season and on July 29, the Braves led the second place Padres by 9 games, the third place Dodgers by 10 ½ and the fourth place Giants by 14.

The Dodgers came to Atlanta to start a four-game series on July 30 that started with a doubleheader. In the first game, the Dodgers appeared to be dead and buried, trailing 6-1 after four innings, but then the Dodgers stormed back to win the opener 10-9. They took the nightcap 8-2 and then won the final two games of the series. The Braves lost 19 of 21 games and the Dodgers went 16-5, including a 21 inning 2-1 win over the Cubs in which manager Tommy Lasorda used all 25 players on the roster.

But in September, both the Dodgers and Braves faltered a bit and the Giants got hot. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Braves led the Dodgers and Giants by one game. The Braves were in San Diego, while the Dodgers and Giants played in San Francisco. The Dodgers and Braves both won their first two games and the Giants were eliminated. And then in Game 162, Lasorda made the fateful decision to pinch hit for Valenzuela with Jorge Orta and reliever Terry Forster joined the rogues gallery of Dodger pitchers who gave up inopportune home runs to Giants players. The Dodgers finished 88-74, 1 game behind the Braves who had lost their final game to the Padres.

1982 saw the breakup of the Dodgers longtime Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield. Davey Lopes was the first player to go and Steve Sax took over. And Sax shone, winning Rookie of the Year honors with a .282 average and 49 stolen bases. Pedro Guerrero slugged 32 home runs and batted .304 with an OPS of .378.

The Dodgers had three great starters in Valenzuela, Bob Welch and Jerry Ruess, but the back end of the rotation was shaky with Dave Stewart, Burt Hooton, and Vicente Romo taking turns. Romo was pitching for the Dodgers for the first time since 1968.

Steve Howe saved 13 games with a 2.08 ERA. Tom Niedenfuer saved 9 games and even Forster managed to pick up three. And in even better news, Dave Goltz was released.

Coming up a game short wasn't good enough for the Dodgers. There were hot prospects that needed to get playing time, namely Mike Marshall and Greg Brock. Both liked to play first. And the Dodgers decided it was time to further dismantle the infield as Steve Garvey would leave as a free agent and Cey would be traded.
Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

Completely disagree with #1. Yes, you want to be careful with your prospects, but you don't want to go to the extreme of babying them. Frankly, IF Jackson is the kind of guy who'd have a mental breakdown because of one bad start, then he's not much a prospect anyway.

HOWEVER, every quote I've ever seen from Jackson indicates that he's extraordinarily mature and level-headed for his age, and even if he were to get bombed (which seems unlikely), he'd probably recover well. If getting the crap beat out of him for one and a half seasons in AAA didn't wreck his confidence, I doubt one bad major league start will either.

The reasoning isn't "let's see what he has before September callups." The reasoning is "it's an emergency, we need a pitcher to make a spot start, and he is by far the best candidate in our minor league system to do so."

And besides, if he's on a hot streak, why waste that streak against minor league batters?

1 The problem with Dessens, and this is solely from Tracy's point of view, is that the bullpen needs veterans. This makes no sense to me, as he'll be used for one start and Tracy rarely uses him anyways. The other alternative would have been Erickson...

If it's between Dessens and Jackson, there's also the factor that Jackson is much more likely to actually help us win the game.

Of course, Tracy can't say that in public.

Is it too early for what ifs? I can't help but think of the many what ifs that would change this season.

1. What if Tracy would have played Choi more?
2. What if Tracy would have played Perez more? (What if he wouldn't have pinch hit for him last night?)
3. What if we would have made a trade?
4. What if Gagne would have been the closer all year?
5. What if Tracy knew when to bunt and not to bunt?
6. What if Tracy would have been fired and replaced by a manager with Depo's style.
7. This one still stings - What if we hadn't been swept by the Royals?
8. What if the schedule was more balanced so we didn't have to play the Angels 6 times while San Diego played Seattle 6 times?
9. What if we wouldn't have had so many major players with injuries?
10. What if Scott Erickson had signed with another team before the season?

I'm sure there's plenty more, but these are the few that came to mind this morning. We may yet win the west, but there's no doubt in my mind we should have.

yeah, 4 that quote from Tracy struck me as kind of a weird idea. Is he suggesting that the younger Dodger relievers will become fearful if Dessens isn't around? Tracy makes it sound like Dessens puts Yhency or Broxton in a stroller with a lunchbox and wheels them out to the mound.

That said, I'm glad to be seeing Jackson get this start. In my schizoid denial/acceptance mode, I like the idea of using the spot start opportunity on a prospect rather than a has-been, even if that has-been is arguably a better bet. But deep down, the denial side of me says lightening will strike again and Jackson will dominate. Taking the fantasy a step further, wouldn't it be great if our playoff rotation was Penny-Weaver-Jackson and we wouldn't have to depend on Perez or Lowe? Okay, that went too far.

jtshoe,

Your what-ifs #4 and #8 pretty much decided the season. We weren't strong enough to begin with to withstand the long-term loss of stars like Gagne, Drew and Bradley, plus Penny's late start, Werth's slow recovery, and the various other injuries that caused the team to use its weak assortment of AAA-level prospects. Perez, Navarro and Broxton might be part of the Dodgers' future (or at least good trade bait), but Repko, Edwards, Ross, Rose and Robles will be neither, but collectively they've played hundreds of games.

The Tracy stuff stands out much more because of the team's weakened condition. If the heart of the lineup had been Bradley-Kent-Drew-Werth then the question of whether Choi played or not wouldn't have taken on such importance.

And, yes, that sweep by the Royals really stunk, and looks especially pathetic now. They were on a brief, Buddy Bell-fueled high, and we caught them then. Plus, of course, the baseball Gods love bad LA Times columnists, so they had to give them a storyline like Lima's (or LoDuca's gimpylegged hit last night).

For what it's worth... the collective winning percentage of the teams we face the rest of the season (weighted for number of games against each team) is .452.

For the Padres, it's also .452.

8, 6 - Agree with reason #4, but I think reason #8 is pretty irrelevant.

Actually, our interleague schedule was weaker than the Padres. The differences were that we played KC/Ana (collective .446 winning pct.), while San Diego played Sea/Cle (.486 winning pct.).

The fact that we couldn't beat the Royals is our own damn fault, and is not cause for pointing fingers at the schedule.

Hey, the Times actually published a letter suggesting that Tracy should be putting his best players in the lineup on an everyday basis. Uh...except the letter specifically singles out Choi and Saenz as players that are getting too many starts.

It's surely a coincidence that the one day out of 100 that I even glance at the letters, they contain expressions of insanity. No doubt on the other 99 days the editors chose to publish letters based on their well-reasoned and insightful commentary.

10 D'oh! It's early yet. I meant #4 and #9. I agree with you, the schedule imbalance means little either way.

The grossest schedule imbalance is the division set-up. Not only will the winner of the NL West have a worse record than at least two Wild Card runners-up, but they'll have achieved that record by playing a lot more games against other cruddy NL West teams.

Let's huddle around the radio today

Maybe it's because I just woke up, but that line from Bob makes me think of the lead in to the old Amazing Stories series, where all the cavemen huddled around the campfire to tell tales.

Of course, that's pretty much what I look like anyway, so it wasn't much of a stretch...

From this morning's Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel:

"Former Marlins pitcher Brad Penny returned to Dolphins Stadium for the first time since the July 2004 blockbuster trade that sent him to the Dodgers. He'll face his former teammates for the second time, looking for career win No. 27 in South Florida.

Despite his success here (26-14, 3.54 ERA) in 61 career appearances, Penny hasn't longed for the Dolphins Stadium ambiance.

'One of the best games I ever pitched crowd-wise was in L.A. last Sunday,' said Penny, who outlasted Pedro Martinez to beat the Mets. 'There's a big difference pitching in L.A. and somewhere like here, where it's not that loud. When you get a crowd like you do in L.A., it makes it a lot easier to pitch than it is here.' "

Best lineup in NL??

STARTERS
SS- AP- .829
1st- Choi- .791
RF- Drew- .932
2b- Kent- .903
CF- Bradley- .828
3rd- Saenz- .868
LF- Werth- .745
C- Navarro- .678
Pitcher

Capable Backups:
LF- Ricky Ledee- .817
SS- Oscar Robles- .711
RF- Jose Cruz JR- .767

Useless Parts (Only late inning defensive subs)
3rd- Jose Valentin- .603
SS- Cesar Izturis- .626
C- Jason Phillips- .671

We win the NL West and at least have a fighting chance against the Cards if the following are implemented. If we ran out this lineup against the Cards (in their current injured state), I'd expect us to win.

The Braves today feature a homegrown lineup. Their best homegrown talent, Andruw Jones, is not even starting today. And in a roster move, they brought their first round draft pick in 2005 to the roster today after releasing Jim Brower. Oh, by the way, the Braves are in first place.

Stan from Tacoma

Having watched my share of baseball games when the stadium was less than 4% full (Hawaii Islanders/Aloha Stadium), Penny's remarks are dead on. Even from a fan's perspective, the more people in the seats the better the experience.

The Padres don't want to make today easy for the Dodgers. Through 4 IP, Pedro Astacio has given up 2 hits, both followed immediately by double plays. The only other base runner reached on a strike out wild pitch

Over at BTF, a rampaging DBacks fan is crowing about how great Shawn Green is defensively in center field, and hoping the DBacks keep him in CF through 2007.

Hey, give 'em a break. They've only had baseball there for 8 years.

3 First off I love watching Edwin pitch so I'll be rooting for him Monday. I hope he does well.

My concern is that the guy is just getting it right. Should we really throw him into the fire this soon? I mean a couple months ago he was getting his brains bashed in in LV and by everyone's admission he didn't trust his stuff and was trying to paint the corners out of desperation. Now he's the player of the week with a few good starts and the Dodgers are tossing him out there. I just fear it's too much too soon.

Why not let the guy make his last two starts in JAX, hopefully good ones, then during call ups let him pitch an inning here and there out of the bullpen. Go into the offseason with his head high and see what he has in the spring?

Instead, if this guy isn't on his game come Monday does this wreck his confidence again and send him spinning backwards?

Babying? Perhaps. But I don't see what an extra couple minor league starts would hurt. Yeah the Dodgers are in a pinch but Dessens is perfectly capable of pitching in a spot start.

20 - You're certainly right that a couple more minor league starts wouldn't hurt. In fact, I'd be in favor of leaving him down there for those starts if we didn't need a starter right now.

But I'm also in favor of the major league team winning baseball games. Which is why calling up Jackson is the better idea, IMO.

I figured we'd all get a kick out of this quote from rotoworld.com:

"Cesar Izturis, still occupying the leadoff spot for the Dodgers, went 0-for-4 tonight and is batting .194 this month.
Is there a more stubborn manager that Jim Tracy? Izturis is batting .175 with 10 walks in 217 AB since the beginning of June and he still hasn't been dropped in the order. He's scored a total of 15 runs in his last 54 games. Aug. 19 - 10:36 pm et"

Well, considering Edwin was pulled after one inning yesterday and Erickson threw 5 1/3, I think it's safe to say that the Dodgers' brass plan to use Edwin on monday. That should at least alleviate some of the fears that some of us had.

3 - then it's time the Dodgers pulled out of Las Vegas. I've never liked the idea of trying to teach pitching for a club whose home park is as pitcher-friendly as Dodger Stadium in an environment so thoroughly hostile as Cashman Field. (OTOH, the Dodgers used to have a AAA club in Albuquerque, which is by far the biggest launching pad in the minors.)

24 - I agree wholeheartedly that we should get rid of Vegas. Great AAA city, but horrible for player development. I always felt the same about ABQ too, much as I love that city.

Major league teams would do best by simulating their major league environment as closely as possible at AAA... Colorado (thin air) and Toronto (turf) have the right idea.

Problem is, if we ditch Vegas then we need to add another farm team closer to L.A., because Vegas is the only farm team we have that's nearby where guys can go for rehab assignments.

So, nominations for our new AAA city? San Diego and Orange County are already taken, alas. Somewhere else in Southern California?

Besides, if we change cities, Steve Schmoll will no longer have to get nervous about that big "Visit Las Vegas" sign that seems to be over his shoulder whenever he's pitching on TV.

22-
Agree w/ you in theory, but a study was done (by sabermetricians, I believe) to assess the value of line-up order. Computer simulations showed that the best possible line-up would account for only 3 and a half more games won (if I remember correctly) than the worst possible line-up. And even w/ Izturis leading off, the dodger line-up is far closer to the former than the latter.

"nominations for our new AAA city?"

Honolulu!

25 I nominate Santa Clarita (Valencia, Newhall, whatever name you guys are familiar with). We need a minor league team and we're only an hour from DS =)

My bias aside, I don't have many better ideas

Bottom of the 9th, 2-2 for the Pads and Braves.

Cards leading the Giants 4-2 in the 8th

What about moving the 51s to Long Beach?

There've been a million independent teams there the past few years.

Francouer swung and missed at 3 straight pitches, Johnson singles, and Langerhans lined into a DP. On the extra innings in that game

Santa Barbara, Santa Maria or San Luis Obispo. The Central Coast would clearly support a AAA team. They get Fox Sports West and follow the Dodgers (and Angels) closely up there. While the Central Coast isn't booming like Vegas, it is growing, especially around Santa Maria, and there's a lot of open land (former oilfields). The climate is much like LA, i.e. moist, heavy air in the evenings and early mornings, hot and dry in the daytime. The further inland, the hotter it gets. They live for tourism up there, and a AAA team could be a tour stop like Hearst Castle.

32 I don't think there's enough population on the central coast to support a AAA team. A Single-A team yes, but not AAA. Plus, I'm not sure how amped laid back beach folk are on baseball so I think they would have attendance problems.

30 - Long Beach is in Orange County, right? Which means exclusive rights for the Angels and I don't think they're about to give us permission.

Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea. It would also save players on the constant AAA shuttle a lot in terms of moving expenses and rental hassles.

26 You know, I'm totally in favor of being sabermetric in a lot of situations, but batting order is one that I have to go old-fashioned on. Sure it might not show up in some simulation, but there's always the psychological level of it. When you have a lead-off hitter who never gets on base, it has to dampen the confidence of the rest of the line-up. Having someone like Johnny Damon setting the table gives a team a lot more swagger not to mention giving the middle of the order hitters someone to knock in.

34 Long Beach isn't quite in Orange County, they're on the southern border of LA county I believe.

It doesn't have to be our AAA team necessarily.

Starting next year, the Pioneer League and Sally League (both of which we have teams in) will be the same level, short season Low A. So we could ditch Columbus and instead get ourselves a Cal League team. Then we could try to move AAA to Portland or someplace like that.

Anaheim is a great AAA city.

Moises Alou batting, bases loaded, 2 outs, top of the 9th, down by 2

Furcal on 2nd, 2 outs in the 10th there

Also, in re #30, it's worth noting that the Dodgers do not have the right to "move" the 51s anywhere. The 51s are an independenly owned franchise and, seeing as how they play in the best market in AAA, I doubt they would move anywhere willingly.

What the Dodgers would have to do is either 1) Find an investor to buy a struggling AAA team (yes, I'm looking at you, Ottawa) and move it where we want it to go, or
2) The Dodgers could buy the franchise themselves and run it. This is what the Mets do with their Brooklyn farm team.

34, 36 - Yes, Long Beach is southernmost LA County.

How many fans does a AAA team need to draw per game to make it viable?

Giles grounded to the shortstop, they're going to the 11th

Alou flew out to right, game over, Cards win

41 - See:

http://tinyurl.com/7a6jx
http://tinyurl.com/dgeo7

What was the official reason for leaving Albuquerque in the first place?

Actually, after looking at those attendance numbers, I might have to take back my comment about LV being the best AAA market. It should be the best AAA market, but... pretty pathetic.

"What was the official reason for leaving Albuquerque in the first place?"
-------------------

I don't remember what the stated reason was, but the actual reason seems clear... LV is both much closer and less than half the elevation of ABQ.

Either that, or Jerry Royster likes Texas Hold 'Em a whole lot.

45 - I was just going to ask you about that. I guess gambling away one's paycheck is still the most popular form of entertainment out there.

35-
Though it's a small sample size, the White Sox' recent tailspin coinciding w/ Podsednik's stint on the DL would back your claim.

48 - Podsednik doesn't get on base at an impressively high rate.

48 That certainly isn't helping them, but let's look at today's line up in terms of OPS

.578
.780
.781
.781
.735
.795
.708
.679
.657

They're missing Konerko's .897, as well as Podsednik's speed.

Langerhans up, men on first and second, 2 outs in the 11th

.578 leading off.

Guillen does stuff like this on purpose. Best to just ignore the White Sox into oblivion.

Langerhans flew out to right. Joey Devine is making his major league debut in the 12th inning

41
Nitpicking here on geography, but the southernmost city in Los Angeles County is ...

Los Angeles.

The Port of Los Angeles sticks out further south than the Port of Long Beach.

Nitpicking further, the southernmost incorporated city in Los Angeles County is Avalon.

It was good enough for the Cubs!

And Barry Levinson!

Oh, wait...

Devine allowed a base hit to Fick, but got out of the inning. Had some ground outs and Olivo was out on batter's interference. Fick is out of the game and Saenez to pitch the bottom of the 12th

Unless gameday is deceiving me, Devine is batting...

Eric, since Arte Moreno has dubbed his team the Los Angeles Angels I don't see how he could block the Dodgers moving their Triple A team to Orange County. And Portland would not be a good spot for Dodgers Triple A. They play on plastic grass there. If not for that, I would be there tomorrow afternoon to see Vegas play.

I have always been a baseball traditionalist. If I was running the Dodgers my Triple A team would be in Hollywood and they would be named the Hollywood Stars. Not sure where Hollywood is in relationship to LA. For that matter, LA is a big enough market that the Dodgers could put a team downtown.

Stan from Tacoma

My geography has always been bad.

Long Beach is on the OC border, though. I know that much.

32-
I go to UCSB and I would love for the triple A Dodger team to move there. Obviously a proper stadium would have to be built, but there is a good amount of Dodger support there and people obviously have money to waste so I think it could do well. Vegas has too much to do for people to worry about a AAA team.

After a leadoff single by McCann, Devine struck out bunting, then Furcal struck out as Orr (PR) was caught stealing. Going to the 13th. The Braves are running out of relievers, and Devine is hardly a sure thing for the 13th. The Pads still have Linebrink and Hoffman, and there's no reason to take Saenez out

Eric Young stole 2nd on a pitchout, so Phillips isn't the only one who can't throw out a runner on a pitchout (although Pena has been in the game for only this inning)

And devine meltsdown.

59

Don't think that you can have a minor league team that close to a major league team. I think there are even more restrictions for Triple A....I think it is great that they are bringing up Jackson, they need to take a look at him and I see this game as almost a free way to do it. Who is being sent down Broxton?

Nady hits a grand slam. There is no joy in Mudville.

Devine loaded the bases, and gave up a grand slam to Xavier Nady. So much for gaining a game today

BAhhhhhhh

59 - All MLB teams have defined geographic territories on which no other team can legally encroach. The name the MLB team chooses to use for marketing purposes, alas, has zero to do with it. They could call themselves the Winston-Salem Angels and it wouldn't make a difference.

Not sure if it's been noted here, but the Red Sox are considering calling up 1st round pick Craig Hansen. He's the same age as Hochevar (and Edwin Jackson for that matter). Makes you think Hochevar could contribute in 2006 if we get him signed.

Who is being sent down Broxton?
----------------------

I'd guess they'll DL Repko retroactive to whenever, and then have him "rehab" in LV for a week or so.

Louis, sure you can. Safeco Field is about 25 miles away from the Triple A team in Tacoma. Great for me; I get to see baseball in both places.

Stan from Tacoma

70 The Braves beat the Red Sox to it with Joey Devine, who is also 21 and drafted this year. Didn't work so good, as he gave up a slam. It seems the teams see Huston Street and hope for the same thing. Ignoring the fact that Street pitched in the minors and AFL before the majors

Robles SS
Choi 1B
Bradley CF
Kent 2B
Ledee RF
Werth LF
Valentin 3B
Navarro C
Penny P

No, this is not a "what would my lineup be" post, this is the actual lineup!

Lineup for todays game:
SS - Robles
1B - Choi
CF - Bradley
2B - Kent
3B - Ledee
LF - Werth
3B - Valentin
C - Navarro
P - Penny

Mark you beat me by .10 seconds.

Something is seriously wrong here. Only Valentin is out of place...

SS Robles
1B Choi
CF Bradley
2B Kent
RF Ledee
LF Werth
3B Valentin
C Navarro
P Penny

vs

2B Easley
RF Conine
LF Cabrera
1B Delgado
CF Encarnacion
3B Lowell
SS Gonzalez
C Treanor
P Moehler

Easley 2B
Conine RF
Cabrera LF
Delgado 1B
Encarnacion CF
Lowell 3B
Gonzalez SS
Treanor C
Moehler P

The Pads game is final. So why did Devine bat with Franco on the bench? And why did he stay in there after he loaded the bases on a 4 pitch walk? Cox did not impress me today...

wow, either Tracy has acceidentally put together a great lineup, or someone upstairs was in his ear after last night's shut out.

76 - actually 10 seconds, since it's hours:minutes:seconds. King of the Hobos beat me to the Fish's lineup by a whole 21 seconds though.

Anyway, if Penny gets the win and Choi gets the winning RBI today, what's the LA Times headline?

81 - "Soulless Dodgers get Unexpected Boost from Choi, Penny"

81 - Yesterday's Headline was:

No heart, No Soul, No Win for Dodgers.

The West takes 4/5 from the East leading Braves Who'd a thunk it.

We best win tonight. That is almost an ideal lineup against a RHP. I'd hate for us to get shutout and Tracy decide to never do it again.

I can't believe that Nady hit a Grand Slam with 2 strikes. The Braves bullpen have been horrible this year. I think the Braves will lose there division lead first before the Padres do.

I'm really bummed that today's game isn't on TV. I can't remember the last time I wasn't angry before the game even started.

wow, either Tracy has accidentally put together a great lineup, or someone upstairs was in his ear after last night's shut out.

I really hope it's the latter, and the start of a new trend.

Anyone listening to the radio? Abe M is full of crap. Busch Stadium is a very nice park, and not particularly in need of replacement.

Oh, and Weaver sounds stoned even in his Panda Express commercial.

Warning: The following broadcast contains commercials by Cars for Causes. Listening to Rick and Bobby is known to cause cats to fling themselves under the wheels of moving cars, dogs to eat their tails, and hair growth and cellular degeneration in homo sapiens. Avoid if susceptible.

I can't believe Izturis is out of the lineup. Choi is playing and he is batting second. Looks like Tracy decided to heed the advice of Dodger Thoughts. :-)

A good way to tell how clueless your organization is is by figuring the ratio of years in existence to the number of different names you've given the same stadium. For example, Florida's ratio is a putrid 3.25:1. They've been around 13 years and have called their stadium the following:

Joe Robbie Stadium
Pro Player Stadium
Tropicana Stadium
Dolphin Stadium

did I miss any?

Dodgers' ratio is 44:1.

Dolphin stadium? At least they could have made it sport-neutral.

Wait, on second thought, Tropicana is in St. Pete and I am an idiot.

I think thats the first time Ive ever seen someone slide FEET first into first base.

When it was called Joe Robbie Stadium, there was a Dolphins punter by the name of Reggie Roby. As a kid, I used to wonder if there was a connnection...

It's also Tropicana Field, not Stadium.

"I think thats the first time Ive ever seen someone slide FEET first into first base."

Bradley did it in the first inning last night.

94 are you watching the game?

Kayvmon, what are you watching?

Go Hee Seop BTW

Just tuned in...
What an amazing lineup. Of course, I agree with everyone in this cannot be Tracy's doing. DePo must've faxed it to the 305, probably after the last out last night.

Yeah, I got the game since Im in Canada. The Florida announcers thought Choi's homerun tear is something he could repeat.

Hit and run with Bradley is not a good idea, especially with Choi on the basepaths.

Is the game on TV? Can't seem to find it. I have TW in the West Valley. Any help would be appreciated. TIA

Hit-and run, with Bradley at the plate and Choi on base?
DePo can't do everything to protect this team, it seems.

Oh geez, a strike 'im out throw 'im out.

"Go Hee Seop"
-----------

Bad coaching there, overkill.

103 The game is not on TV because Fox has exclusive rights.

Wonder if the hit-and-run pitch was out of the zone...Gameday puts it right down the pipe, not always trustworthy though

106 Dang, I have to be more careful with my word choice.

This feed Im getting is really weird. Instead of commercials, I get to watch the Florida dugout without any sound or commentary.

Tracy was scared that Choi would score, better to get him out. Seriously, why? At least Izzy/Robles hit and runs have a fast base runner and good contact hitter (by Tracy standards anyways)

Reggie Roby
http://tinyurl.com/bhp7e

Joe Robbie

http://tinyurl.com/8el4r

Combined with the fact that both men are deceased, the resemblance is even more striking!

I used to slide feet first into 1st whenever I needed to avoid a tag by a 1st baseman due to an errant throw. Seems the smart thing to do.

Wha? No TV broadcast tonight? FSN West 2 must have pre-empted the Dodgers for a poker tournament featuring guys in funny outfits, or nude women's volleyball.

114

We've gone over why the game isn't on TV earlier in this thread and at length yesterday.

Should have started Phillips today instead of yesterday, Florida has a pretty slow line-up in there today.

Somebody needs to give Tracy a Gameboy to play with during games.

Sometimes sitting and watching is the best strategy.

Nude Women's Vollyball?
I'm in provided the women are provided by Hugh Hefner.

114 -- see 103.

115
Thanks for the info. I've stopped reading threads when I come in late. Way to many and most of it is now just whining which is not why I used to read Dodger Thoughts.

Penny's fastball hasn't coming close to the strike zone so far.

Geez, Penny can't find the plate, hopefully he finds his release point.

Penny doesn't look (on gameday) like he has much control, lots of balls anyways

In my youth, hardly any games were on TV!

And we liked it!

For Cabrera, that's an unfortunate Gameday photo.

Way to many and most of it is now just whining which is not why I used to read Dodger Thoughts.

So sayeth the man on the high horse.

Dave Niehaus, the Mariners broadcaster, has called Tropicana Field the Ebbets Field of the South on more than one occasion. I don't think Dave likes indoor baseball anymore than I do.

Stan from Tacoma

Sometimes people on high horses are correct, however...

124 we liked it because it meant Vin Scully did 6 innings on radio. Even from Flahrida (as he would pronounce it).

Wow, Boston's bullpen really sucks.

Sometimes High Horses eat all the hay.

Gahh.

Son of a...

So, I guess Miguel Cabrera's slump is over.

Wow, that thing was crushed.

Today already looks terrible

127 "has called Tropicana Field the Ebbets Field of the South" That could mean a lot of things. Did he mean in the sense of it being a fabled, hallowed hall of field-of-dream memories? Or in the sense of it being a urine-soaked wreck whose occupants were soon to relocate to California?

Bring on the Sacramento Devil Rays!

Would've at least been nice to record an out before the game was over.

Penny needs to have his out pitches working to be dominant like he was against the Mets last time out, he let Cabrera foul off like 5 pitches with 2 strikes in that at-bat.

No one has scored a run against the Marlins since the ninth inning of Tuesday's game.

135 That's not reassuring

Penny vs Moehler was suppose to be the easy game, it's Fox's fault, Penny wouldn't do that if he was on TV

118 Nude Russian Women's Weightlifting. Now there's a sight to behold.

Charlie, repeat after me: EN-CAR-NA-CION.

If it's not televised, how do we know it really happened?

How do we know it wasn't all faked? You know like the Moon landing? And the Kennedy assassination?

The ump's strikeout call was "Lesnie Nelson-like".

144 - Now THAT'S Denial.

Hopefully Penny's settled down now, gotta get this offense going though which is tough to do without heart or soul.

Are we sure that Penny is pitching today and Houlton pitched yesterday?

So Penny decided switch places with Houlton this series. Either way, our offense really needs to do something

144

It's not denial. It's delusion.

Penny got the meat of the order out no problem. Maybe it was just "return to Pro Player* jitters."

This OBP/OPS monster of a lineup should be able to score 4 runs on Moehler. Unless Tracy keeps calling irrational steal attempts.

*(I know, it's Dolphin now)

When the Marlins were in L.A., Penny faced Moehler and gave up a 2-run homer to Cabrera in the first.

The good news is that Moehler's control looks as good as Penny's. A few less hit and runs and we could come back

Why did Ledee swing? Gameday shows it as a terrible pitch off a pitcher having a hard time with control

#137, he said it the sense that the Trop is the antithisis of Ebbets Field. Ebbets Field is the one place I wish I could have seen a game.

Stan from Tacoma

Time for Valentin to even the score.

Valentin, step into my office, cuz you're f'in fired.

In Dioner we trust!

Navarro tried, good job. Now a one run game

Dioner had a home run before he hit a double.

What do yo know about that?

Ebbets Field is the one place I wish I could have seen a game.
"Hit Sign, Win Suit."

112 Reggie Roby died?

It would be funny if posts 156 and 157 were in reverse order.

Gameday had the first pitch to Penny as low...Charlie said it was high.

Good thing Penny got robbed otherwise we would have inevitably been victim to the Grabowski principle (I think, still don't quite understand the rules).

162

Reggie Roby passed away in February at age 43. I believe it was of natural causes.

What's the national broadcast channel for this game. MLB.tv won't let me in, so I'm stuck with Gameday.

165- Wouldn't the Grabowski Principle just say that Moehler should be removed from the game immediately? And Penny should have hit a home run to really trigger it.

167

What do you mean by "national broadcast channel"?

167 - There is no TV for this game anywhere in the USA.

169 MLB.tv says that due to national broadcast restrictions (which in the past has meant Sunday Night Baseball or Fox Saturday game) I can't access the game. It's not on Fox here, so I'm curious what's blocking me.

What channel can I watch the game on?

166 Wow. There is nothing natural about dying at 43. He was one heckuva punter.

Fox has blocked this game, because they have an exclusive window from 100-400 from their games. Since the Angels-Red Sox game is on, they won't show the Dodgers game anywhere.

171 It's the Fox Saturday game on the west coast...

169 see 107

No, I don't want to watch the Angels. Where can I watch my beloved Dodgers?

Eric, trying to get Steiner to pronounce names correctly, provide meaningful commentary, or just provide accurate play by play is a hopeless task. Is he with Monday on the radio today? The Marlin broadcasters are better than those two.

Stan from Tacoma

174 thanks

Icaros,
Charter a supersonic plane and I think you can make it to the game before it's over.

Bullpen activity for the Marlins? Apparently they thought that a Robles single was a Grabowski principle. Maybe they were confused and thought Izzy was leading off today?

Where can I watch my beloved Dodgers?

There's plenty of Izturis and Repko clips on dodgers.com

Good at bat for HSC.

HEE SEOP CHOI!

Wow, now that's what I call a quick hook

Too bad we can't see Hee seop every game. Freakin' Tracy!

Great AB by our beloved.

Wow, Choi's second triple of the year.

Choi isn't too bad. Where's this guy been all year?

3rd career triple for Hee Seop

OMG, a triple. Can't wait to see that on the highlight reel tonight. (Curse you, Fox).

They're hooking him? You got to be kidding me. Has Tracy been giving McKeon some notes?

HEE SEOP CHOI! HEE SEOP CHOI!

Talk about Captain Hook... WTF?

Bench that!

So is this going to be one of those highlight reels on SportsCenter with the footage from the Jumbo Tron?

I was told by Frank McCourt that every game would be on TV, but I've flipped through the channels ten times now and can't find the game.

I sure wish I knew what channel you guys were watching the game on.

Ismael Valdez? Hah!

I think Tracy is redeemed - Choi clearly thrives on one start a week.

Looky here. Our old friend, Ismael. Apparently, he discovered recently "Valdes" should have been "Valdez."

Oh man. Fox just showed the highlights thus far. I already got my fix seeing Choi crush that one.

They showed the triple on an in-game update on FOX. Choi didn't look THAT slow. At least not Phillips-esque slow.

"Charter a supersonic plane and I think you can make it to the game before it's over."
-------

You could probably make it to Vancouver quicker, and watch from there.

Icaros, the game isn't being televised anywhere.

199 - For awhile, Choi thrived on one pinch-hit every other game.

Ismael plus this lineup could spell good things for our beloved squad.

So... Valdez is coming?

Valdez is on the Marlins now?

This game will make Choi's batting stats in the #2 position even more weirdly skewed. Small sample size though, right? ;-)

151 suddenly, Moehler giving up at least 4 could be a reality.

Kent loves those one-pitch at-bats. This time... ouch.

Icaros, the game isn't being televised anywhere.

Says who? :-)

At least the Fox Los Angeles Angel game is a good one.
I understand that Fox has the 1:00 - 4:00 time frame but why wouldn't FSN or FSN2 pick it up at 04:00 or has that also already been discussed in much detail buried in other threads?

Insert Werth pun anytime soon.

202 Phillips have no triples in his career.

Let's hope Werth doesn't kill the rally...

I feel a blister coming on any second now.

When was the last time you looked at your birth certificate, Monday?

Icaros, says MLB. Fox has an exclusive deal, where they get to be the only ones to show a MLB game in the 100-400 PM window with their national television deal. That's why the game isn't being shown in LA.

So the first pitch to bradley was a strike, then the one pitch AB for Kent? Valdez is looking troubled. That makes Kent's swinging look a bit weird.

Whats the count?

I don't want to hear about cheerleaders!

Wow. Werth swing on 3-0.

What happened?

220- Kent loves to look for a first-pitch strike grooved in his power zone. But occasionally he gets too excited and wastes an AB.

223 Werth sac fly

So far Valdez has thrown 17 pitches and only 5 strikes.

200 Makes sense for one who tanks so often to be named after a tanker.

Brad,

I'm teasing.

Sorry, and thanks anyway.

223 Werth fouled it off. I was surprised at the call. Then he sac flied out. Choi scored.

Icaros, sorry. I'm usually better at picking up on sarcasm.

No way, Jose... :-(

BTW, no way Choi hits that triple if Robles is on second or third.

By the way, BA's big article on the Suns appears in the issue that reached mailboxes today. LaRoche, Billingsley, and Martin are on the cover.

227 LOL. Took a while, but was worth the wait. ;-)

From the April 28, 1958 L.A. Times

"President Walter O'Malley said yesterday that the Dodgers organization had acceded to the pleas of shut-ins and city officials - although he declined to name the city officials - to allow television of the games away from home."

There were 8 games televised on KTTV in 1958.

230 - No problem.

232 LOL. You're right.

Second game of the series and I'm already sick of Damion Easley.

So much for the lead...

238 I'm sick of Steiner's play on the words with Easley's last name...

That pitch to Delgado wasn't even a strike according to Gameday.

The pitch Delgado looked a foot outside the strike zone

How many runs has Valentin saved at third so far though? Huh? Huh?

Why is Pierre in the game? He's batting 5th, he's going to end a lot of rallies if he were to stay there

In 1964, the Dodgers and Giants joined together on an early pay-TV plan that would have cost viewers $1.50 per game. (They announced it after the 1963 season.)

I don't know if any games made it on to the air that way, but in November of 1964 California voters approved Proposition 15, which banned pay television in the state of California.

Not surprisingly, the courts invalidated the proposition because there is no right for a state to regulate a Federal activity. But pay TV didn't come back for years.

Ahh, but O'Malley wanted it.

Delgado got rewared for hacking at slop. ;-)

Don't tell me Valdes is going to shut LA down from here on...

243 Steve, nice of you to join us. Killing some time before the A's game? ;-)

"In 1964, the Dodgers and Giants joined together on an early pay-TV plan that would have cost viewers $1.50 per game. (They announced it after the 1963 season.)"
------------

You think that's bad, you can listen to Vero Beach Dodgers games online. Their website proclaims that "For a flat $40 you can listen to the entire game!"

Choi is about to get Radke hot!!!

247 It's Valde[b]z[/b], now.

The Dodgers are Steve's second favorite team because his GM's little buddy was hired by LA last year.

If Radke was the pitcher in the HR derby, Choi would have won.

#235: Bob, that O'Malley guy is all heart. Actually I wish the O'Malley family still owned the Dodgers. Except for Strawberry they didn't make too many decisions that bothered me.

Stan from Tacoma

252 Skipper: "Hey little buddy."

251 I only give people one chance with names. I never went for (H)akeem Olajuwon, either.

In hindsite the Strawberry decision was terrible but at the time I don't recall to many Dodger fans complaining, but then there wasn't a Dodger Thoughts to find out what the intelligent Dodger fan thought.

Penny doesn't have his good stuff today. Ground rule double for the SS.

From my vantage point on my high horse I can see for miles and miles and it all points to a Dodger victory.

Good lord Penny, this is not a good return to Pro Player.

256 So, you still call "The Greatest" Cassius Clay? ;-)

Anybody know why the game isn't on tv today? (kidding)

And Penny gives back the lead...

I still like my chances against Valdez, if only we can stop the Marlins from contiuing to score.

261 Before my time.

Thanks God for the sac bunt. Now we have a chance of getting out of the inning.

265 Are you kidding, or do you really not know Muhammad Ali?

Hmm, the Dodgers did have a few pay TV games in 1964 on a service called STV (Subscription TV) which was run by Pat Weaver (father of Sigourney). But they couldn't get Scully to do the play-by-play.

Instead it was some guy named Frank Sims.

They only wired about 3,500 homes in the Westside along La Cienega.

Well, I find it interesting....

My horse is named Mittens.

267 I mean he was pretty much done by the time I was old enough to engage in sports discussion, so his name hasn't really come up.

But, his momma called him Clay, so I'm gonna call him Clay.

Out of the inning. Man, today is not Penny's day.

Does anyone have a pet with two names?

Sounds like Choi might go cycling today.

i feel a cycle coming...

Choi is ON FIRE!!

Hee Seop is a HR away from the cycle. And the game still isn't on.

Cum on feel the Choi!

Dang, the skewing of Choi's stat in the #2 batting order continues. Double to center field.

If this were televised, we'd have a Wes Parker-themed graphic appearing on screen now.

With a little more savvy on that ball, Choi could've had a rally-killing home run.

273 and Monday both beat me to it, but one Hee Seop homer, and everybody who hasn't already forgotten Wes Parker, will.

I think Hee Seop is getting his name chanted in Florida.

Only a homer is needed for the [censored to prevent jinxing] and Tracy will have to use him, right?

278 - Tell me about it. I'm quite certain Choi would have success anywhere in the order if given the chance. However, as long as Robles hits in front of him, I'm okay with it.

"Productive out" for Bradley.

Has anyone else noticed that "Ricky Ledee" rhymes with "inning ending double play"?

286

They're called "Olneys" on this site.

286 - We call them Olneys.

Anyone know if they still have Wi-Fi at SBC? I'd love to watch the game live with the DT comments on whe I get down there.

Lew Alcindor changed his name before I was born, so he was grandfathered in as Kareem.

Freakin Pro Player is so deep in center, I assume that ball would be out in every other park.

280 LOL. You must have heard last night's telecast. Lyons said that he'd prefer Kent to double in the 9th, rather than a HR, to keep the momentum going. OMG...

That's a two Olney inning!

Which will like end up with just one run scored.

Funny how that works.

This would have been a great game to watch.

292 434 in the deepest part of center field.

The Phillips Patrol probably thinks this is some sort of accident.

294 Better than no runs.

293 - Lyons has been saying that all year. It's been a running joke here for awhile now.

"But, his momma called him Clay, so I'm gonna call him Clay."
--------

Well, to be technical about it, his momma called him Cassius. His great-great-grandfather's slavemaster probably called him Clay.

According to gameday, Werth's flyball was caught at the wall...

wow, were ledee and werth close to having homeruns?

another note, if choi hits for the cycle today, with the game not being on tv, i am going to be on angry dodger fan.

So Choi just needs a homer for the Cycle, correct?

Every ball doesnt look like it was hit hard and then end up on the warning track in deep center. Its like theres a jet stream going straight out to center.

300 - I think I was quoting a movie.

Coming to America, I believe.

302 Yeah, and I can't wait for the Dodgers to pitch a perfect game, only to not see it on TV because of Trackside Live.

302 The way Steiner described em they were pretty dang close. His call was strange on both, he started off making them sound like lazy fly balls then he kept getting more excited before yelling out that they were caught at the wall.

What is the LA Times headline if Choi hits for the cycle?

Mark Grace was also known in his Cub days for saying that his doubles kept rallies going while home runs ended them.

This was around the time when Grace's job at first base was threatened by a hot young prospect in the Cubs minor leagues named:

Hee Seop Choi.

Cabrera's gameday pic is one goofy mug.

308 - "Genius Tracy Puts Choi in Position to Hit for Cycle"

Delgado owns Penny.

Oh, great. Stories about Rick Monday's father in law. I knew there was a reason I tuned in today.

Choi is so unclutch. He can't do this if the game was televised. ;-)

Grrr.

Can we stop giving up the lead, please?

311 LMAO!

Someone please call up the people at Dolphins Stadium and tell them that it is a pitcher's park.

Instead of showing the game to which they have exclusive rights, Fox's LA affiliate is showing a public-access-crappy trivia game show the grand prize for which seems to be a sandwich.

Good god, how many two out runs have the Marlins scored tonight?

it looks like we may need 8 runs or so today to win this. may the power of choi be with us.

316 Nah, this is the perfect setup for Choi's game winning HR, to complete the c...., don't want to jinx it. ;-)

268 I thought it was interesting too, Bob...especially the Sigourney Weaver tie-in.

Purcey - I think Tracy's teasing us today. He knew the game wouldn't be on TV, so he FINALLY gave us a lineup that is at least CLOSE to what we've been wanting to see. The major exception being Valentin over Perez, of course.

323

Yeah, sort of gave it that Paul Harvey like twist to it!

"the grand prize for which seems to be a sandwich."

Mmm. Lunchtime!

Definitely pinch-hit for Penny here, he's got nothing today.

311 - The essence of comedy is truth.

Our bullpen is going to save our butts tonight provided that Tracy hits for Penny. We will score the winning run off of G Mota.

I don't understand Valentin being at third. I mean, Perez is a defensive liability at third, but it's not even Valentin's natural position either!

I know that BA is overrated, but how good can one be with a BA of .168? You'd have to hit a HR every time you get a hit, to be worth something.

omg, d4p has made his way onto dodger thoughts...

Valentin walks with no one on. I'd still prefer Perez

Thank God Jose can walk, otherwise his value is less then Clayton which is at bad as it gets.

331 by getting a walk, just like he did! ok, ok, he's still pretty worthless

For anyone on the radio, is Penny in the on deck circle?

I know that BA is overrated, but how good can one be with a BA of .168? You'd have to hit a HR every time you get a hit, to be worth something.

Until this season, that's pretty much what he did.

Any possibility of the double switch: Perez bats for Penny, and replaces Valentin?

LOL. Is this your infamous "Other Board"? Don't worry, I don't plan on posting here much.

I'm only here because I thought I saw Penarol over here the other day, and I had previously thought that he had died or something. Was he really here, and did he leave the ESPN board in favor of this one?

338 don't get too greedy!

Come on, Tracy!

Jose Valentin is going to carry this team on his back come September:)

Valdez is shutting us down...

Caught stealing?! @#$#@#$

Yet another example of why you leave stolen bases to the experts.

no, theres a fanhome board that i frequent quite a lot because the prospect thread there has a lot of traffic.

Dear Jim,
The hit and run stinks. Just thought you should know.

Yours very respectfully,
Eric Enders

Did Tracy do that on purpose so that he could have Penny up guilt free?

My cynicism sees a wasted Perez today

Valdez is "shutting down" the Dodgers?

He's walked three, given up a double and a run.

Is this a double switch, or is he just having Perez come up to pinch hit?

obviously tracy doesn't go by batting average, since perez is .330

I hate jim tracy

I think Tracy thinks that LaDuca is behind the plate and hasn't realized that it is someone who can throw.

Anyone know what happened to Encarnacion?

350 LOL...in the context of a 6-5 game, yes. :)

Did anyone else read "Viewpoint" in the LA Times today?

Someone wrote that Choi and Saenz are essentially worthless, and that Jim Tracy has done a great job, and is not responsible for the Dodgers woes this season.

Are Dodger fans really this ignorant?

356,
Yes.

356 - Brainwashed by Plaschke.

Felix is pitching for Mariners tonight. Twins score two in the first.

Stan from Tacoma

Can Dessens still provide veteran leadership to the young guys in the pen if he's actually in the game?

Gutsy call here.

Are Dodger fans really this ignorant?

Depends on the size of his/her horse :-)

Gonzales tried to bunt with Matt Treanor on deck?

McKeon has definitely been reading Jim Tracy's notes.

#354, According to Marlin broadcasters Juan Encarnacion left because of sore rib.

Stan from Tacoma

Here we go baby. choi's about to hit for the cycle. Anyone else feeling it? Or are you feeling the typical Dodgers letdown?

364 I feel Saenz will bat against Villone, unfortunately

Villone can be wild. Hope Dodgers have some patience at the plate.

Stan from Tacoma

Oooh, dang.

You got to be kidding me? He hits him? This is worse than when they hit Sheffield in Colorado when he just needed the single for the cycle.

Injury dealy...is it serious? Dang Villone, doesn't want Choi to hit for the cycle...

Well, at least Choi's obp gets another boost.

Where did he get hit and is he okay?

Where'd he get hit?

Suns game is on radio for those who want to listen to a winning team:

http://tinyurl.com/bypne

1-0 Suns, LaRoche just scored on a Loney infield single.

368
As long as he stays in the game he'll get another ab and hopefully it will be against Mota or Jones and that is when we want the dinger of dingers.

Hope the Dodgers make Villone pay for the HBP.

Stan from Tacoma

On the kneecap

At least he's on base. Now I want Bradley to hit a homer, to make Villone pay for that misdeed.

Thanks Eric.

If someone was a smart cable operator they would start showing telecasts of the Sun games.

Andrew Brown, who the Indians acquired from the Dodgers in the Milton Bradley trade, was called up today.

http://tinyurl.com/7vzqo

378 Especially since they've been named the Best Minor league Team in baseball.

Kent needs to provide some insurance runs.

If someone was a smart cable operator they would start showing telecasts of the Sun games.

We'd be the only ones watching. Most Dodgers fans think the Suns are the team that Amare Stoudamire plays for.

356 Well, the guy did have a point. Choi didn't even try to go first to third on Bradley's single. I mean, sure, it was an infield single, but still. What kind of heart does that show?

Kent's the man!

380 - Don't you have to be ahead in order to get insurance runs?

381 Beg to differ but then we always disagree about something.

Well, now we are...

...almost...

(To the six-fingered man) My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

El Pulpo didn't fool Kent.

Let's hope Werth can come through.

384 I was confident they would go ahead in the situation.

from dodger notes on dodgers.com
a quote from tracy about izturis.

"From what I've seen the last few days, swing-wise, I think this will do him good," said Tracy. "I think he's dragging a bit. A day off, I've seen in the past, recharges him. He'll be back in there tomorrow."

so unfortunately its only for 1 day.

I hear Jeff Kent has spent the last several years building up a resistance to Iocaine powder.

Werth is going to go from being Werthless in the 1st half to Werthwhile in the 2nd half as he continues his surge with a big time hit. Here's hoping my high horse can continue to see into the future.

385 - If we're talking about the same people who think that Saenz and Choi are "essentially worthless," I don't see how you can disagree with me.

388Dang a quote from my favorite movie.

I'll take it!

What? Who's high on horse? Darryl Strawberry?

Good ballgame. I wonder if Vin tunes in when he is not on the road with the team.

Stan from Tacoma

Yeah baby

Everybody!

Let's dismount our horses!

Cue double play in T minus five seconds.

Reverse jinx worked!

Let's dismount our horses!
Neigh!
Er, nay!

Apparently Bob is not up on his drug slang...

Well that was some bad luck.

Eric, did you get a hard copy of the Baseball America Suns edition? If so, what do you think of it? I'm registered for the website and I was hoping they would post the article online, but they haven't so far.

This thread somewhat reminds of a "Twilight Zone" episode where everybody starts attacking each other just because there's no TV.

(OK, it's really because there's no power and it goes off an on in people's houses, but I've made my point!)

"Eric, did you get a hard copy of the Baseball America Suns edition?"
-------

Not yet... my father gets it and sends it to me when he's done.

Phew, just got back from marinating some meat for dinner. A lot of things just happened. A shame how Navarro got doubled up on a line drive. Maybe Choi will get a final chance at a cycle.

I'm up on my drug slang with the best of 'em! I work in Downtown Los Angeles!

I just thought everybody was getting all testy, but I misread the situation. Sort of like watching Jason Grabowski track a fly ball.

Izturis in the game. Robles to third. Valentin did his job with his RBI dribbler.

408 - There's also the one where everybody fights over the lone bomb shelter in town.

was navarros line drive a sure base hit but unluckily got snagged by alfies 6th finger?

Bob I have seen no attacks today so I'm not sure what your sensitive about. We are allowed to have some fun or disagree with each other aren't we?

I predict a single by whoever the PH is, Robles bunts, and Choi is intentionally walked

Tracy didn't even give Izturis the day off.

At least my prediction won't happen, no way Izturis singles

I think Molokai and I have reached a point where we can be testy and take no offense.

We're savvy veterans around here.

Timmermann, I'm getting sick and tired of you and your big words, and your fancy job, and. . . Oh look! The Rockies-Cubs game is on. Mmm, lets never fight again.

matt kemp is a beast! 2-3 so far today with his 26th homerun, his BA is up to .313!

Hmmm...Dessens looking good. Wonder if he'll go one more inning.

and just when I was comfortable with the two run cushion...

Check that. Single by Conine.

Come on Schmoll, Cabrera's got nothin!

Scholl in for Dessens.

I didn't think anybody was mad at me. I thought you were all angry at each other.

I have no future in diplomacy. I try to pacify things and get people mad at me!

Hmmm, I see a parallel to current events here.....

Fiedling error. Way to disrupt the chemistry Tracy.

Kemp's 26 HR's ties the Vero Beach franchise record, which Adrian Belre has held since 1997, I believe.

Gamecast says it was an error by Robles, was it an error or a hit?

if laroche was still in vero, he would probably have 40 by now.

"Scholl in for Dessens."
-------

I had no idea Elmer was having foot problems...

Kemp has been a monster lately. At last a Dodger outfield prospect.

Kemp has been a monster lately. At last a Dodger outfield prospect.

raglani and ruggiano are both holding their own too.

433 LOL. Yeah, Dr. Schmoll.

I remember when Henry Rodriguez hitting 10 home runs at Vero in 1989 was a big deal.

Of course, that was back before the park had, you know, an outfield fence.

428If you're talking about Greta Van Susteren and Aruba, I totally agree with you.

I wish Kuo was on the roster to face Delgado. I have no faith that anyone in our bullpen could get him out.

I'm getting veeeeery nervous. Bring in Gio? Are you serious?

Let's bring in the LOOGY!

Choi get a regular glove and go pitch!

Uh oh...Gio coming in...perfect setup for Choi's game winning homerun...

Oh God. This is opening the door for disaster.

Ugh. When will Yhency be forgiven enough to put in these situations instead of Carrara?

#435: I would add Delwyn Young (who's still likely to be moved to the outfield) and Sergio Pedroza (who's demonstrating tremendous power) to that list.

Actually, Gio is more effective against lefties...

Do we have anybody to pitch to this guy?

Broxton could come in and either walk him or strike him out...

Jose Cruz? And to think, we were duped yet again into thinking Tracy was figuring things out.

i still dont think delwyn young will be able to hit enough to be a fixture at a corner OF spot for us.

This is the last guy I'd bring in, since Erickson is no longer with us.

Yaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhooooooooo! Ground out.

My plan on pitching to Delgado right now would be to curl up into the fetal position on the mound.

Would that be a balk?

Broxton could come in and either walk him or strike him out..

given the fact that broxton only strikes out star players (pujols, bay, andruw jones, etc), he would probably K delgado.

this is funny, i read somewhere that schmoll has the best stats vs righthanded hitters and carrara has the best vs lefthanded hitters among our relievers, so when i saw the middle of the marlins lineup getting ready to come up, i thought to myself, i bet tracy uses schmoll for cabrera and carrara for delgado, and sure as $%!& that's what happened.

Didn't you guys hear? Carrara is our new LOOGY...

Before you laugh, Carrara has been our best LOOGY, everyone else is hammered by lefties

453 - That's what I was basing my comment on.

Looks like Carrara did the job.

how is guame over vs lefties?

#445, Just saw Vegas in Tacoma. Young is not a real big guy. He did finally get his first triple A homerun yesterday. I could be wrong, but I don't think he will have enough power to be in the outfield.

Stan from Tacoma

#435: Jacksonville's starting outfield of Raglani (LF), Ruggiano (CF), and Kemp (RF) should be a lot of fun to watch next year. Then again, the infield with Dunlap (1B), Abreu (2B), and Hu (SS) should be pretty good too. Oh yeah, and the rotation with Miller, Tiffany, Pimentel, and Megrew won't be too shabby. Do you think Kuo will start next season with Jacksonville or Las Vegas, and for bonus points as a reliever or starter?

459 he would have enough power to play in the Mariner outfield:)

Jacksonville's starting outfield of Raglani (LF), Ruggiano (CF), and Kemp (RF) should be a lot of fun to watch next year. Then again, the infield with Dunlap (1B), Abreu (2B), and Hu (SS) should be pretty good too. Oh yeah, and the rotation with Miller, Tiffany, Pimentel, and Megrew won't be too shabby. Do you think Kuo will start next season with Jacksonville or Las Vegas, and for bonus points as a reliever or starter?

this is why i think the jax team next yr has just as much potential as this years team.

also, if dewitt breaks out next year, he could join the suns as well.

432 It depends if your foot is on the rubber or not.

Robles trying to make up for his error.

Young will certainly have enough of a bat to be a fourth outfielder/key pinch hitter a la Ricky Ledee.

453 Broxton only is good against young sluggers, like the ones mentioned. He needs to face Cabrera, not Delgado. He could be our official PUTSOYAS (Pitcher Used To Strike Out Young All Stars) I tried =P

I told Robles not to get an XBH, now Choi will be IBB'd

460 I think Kuo will be on the major league roster. He's 24 and we will need him. Might as well get some use out of his arm before he blows it out again. Our bullpen could be quite impressive next year if Gagne makes it back.

Lets see if Choi can go for the cycle. I wonder if any one has hit for the cycle and had a HBP and walk too.

Stan from Tacoma

#449/459: That would be unfortunate, though scouts have been very impressed with his power for his size thus far. I hope he can improve his defense enough to stick at 2B.

Choi does not improve his BA with RISP. But gets an RBI, with a sac fly. :-)

Our bullpen could be quite impressive next year if Gagne makes it back.

i agree, i really like the bullpen's potential for next yr.

Well, Choi has at least earned himself a spot in tomorrow's lineup.

After that, it's back to the bench, big guy.

i wonder if wes parker is rooting for hsc...it seems, unfortunately so, that the only time he gets mentioned is when a dodger (or an opponent) is close to a cycle.

458 Remember the grand slam to Wilkerson?

Now that is called an insurance run.

What a game for Hee Seop, could he finally be out of Tracy's doghouse?

472 Nah, Choi needs a rest tomorrow, with all the running he did on the double and triple. ;-)

Choi's place in the lineup is courtesy the heat in Florida. Tracy said he would alternate Navarro and Phillips behind the plate the whole series, so that leaves an opening at first for the Choi/Saenz/Kent team.

"What a game for Hee Seop, could he finally be out of Tracy's doghouse?"
---------

Considering that hitting six homers in a weekend only got him out of the doghouse for a week or so, I think we know the answer to that...

472 Isn't that what we said about Perez's triple?

472Do you really think he will play Choi back to back games? It might offend Philips and you know we don't want to offend such a valuable player.

#467: I hope not. Tommy John surgery is usually something pitchers can recover completely from, even two of them. Kuo's arm has way too much potential to take a "let's just see how much we can squeeze out of him" approach. The Dodgers will have enough power bullpen depth with Gagne, Brazoban, Sanchez, Broxton, and Schmoll, that I think / hope they'll take it easy with Kuo.

#465, maybe. I am not sure why they signed Ledee. It would seem to me if the Dodgers are going to turn Young into an outfielder, he should be playing the outfield right now in Vegas.

Stan in Tacoma

Somebody ought to advise Choi of his unofficial fan club over here (I'm a member, too...I'm just amused).

"#467: I hope not. Tommy John surgery is usually something pitchers can recover completely from, even two of them."
-------

One, yes.

But nobody's ever really recovered from two Tommy Johns to be a good major league pitcher. Dreifort came the closest.

This is why it was such a relief (NPI) that Gagne's second one turned out to be a false alarm.

478 Here's hoping for accelerated global warming.

leedee was only a 2 yr deal and we needed the outfield depth.

I thought they pinch hit for Gio. Gameday doesn't show a double-switch, does it?

I posted this at the very end of one of the game threads this week, not sure if people saw it:

http://www.cafepress.com/freeheeseop

Sorry I haven't read through everything yet--but do you mean to tell me with LeeDee "hobbled" and his hamstring not responding, he was running the bases tonight? With all the Jasons and other people we've played in the outfield, was that Leedee who didn't score from second on a single, and then was caught in a double play at third to kill a big inning? I hope it doesn't matter.

If I were Mike Lowell I would not be so excited to swing the bat.

Though it means he doesn't have to stand out there and pretend quite as long.

488 They double switched, by having Cruz come in for Ledee.

I believe Ron Villone gets credit for a hold here doesn't he?

489 That is hilarious. I think I will liven up the bedroom with the "Free Hee Seop" classic thong. "Free Hee Seop" infant creeper for my son.

Are Carrara and Sanchez alternating as closers, or do you think Tracy just wanted to rest Duaner?

Felix looks like he is through for the night after 5 innings. Two runs on four hits. Twins lead 2-0.

Stan from Tacoma

Hey Kayaker,
The kind of underwear you wear is your own business... we're not judging.

#485: I'm a member of Hong-Chih Kuo Marching and Chowder Society, so I'm still holding out hope for a long and successful career. I'd really like to see him turned back into a starter next year.

Good lord, Eric. A thong? Yikes!

why is carrara pitching well?

495 That was the 8th

We just need 5 men to get on, and Choi will have his chance

slighty ot - here in twins territory, there is a 40 yr anniversary celebration of the 65 al champion team this weekend, complete with mudcat grant bobbleheads. as such, there has been a fair amount of talk about the dodgers, and how the twins tried to get selig to have the dodgers play here during interleague play instead of the twins going to la. i know there have been some 1955 team functions this year, but has there been any celebrations of the 65 team out there this year?

furthermore, i would love to see something for the 77 team in a couple of years, but i don't suppose the dodgers celebrate 30 year anniversaries of league championships since i didn't hear anything about the 74 team last year.

Nows when a good team gets some good at bats--maybe another run

492 - Thanks. Makes sense now.

500 No leadoff walk. He seems to go into gas can mode after a walk

497 I'm going to free my big "Hee Seop."

493 Yes, he does get a hold, is he on your fantasy team or something Bob?

Ricky Ledee HR.

There goes the save opp

Hernandez is back out for the 6th. They way he was getting handshakes in the dugout after the 5th, I thought he was through for the night.

Stan from Tacoma

Ledee doubters, disunite.

Now why is Ledee batting if he was taken out?

This is very confusing. I've got Harold Reynolds and Gary Thorne doing the LLWS on the tube, and I keep hearing aluminum bats hit the baseball.

The Hawai'i kids play tomorrow. In fact, we have four teams in various age levels of the LL and Babe Ruth championships. Along with Michele Wie and a couple of other teenage girl golfers, I've decided it's something being added to our water.

Florida announcer: "Mota has done more then struggled - he's been bad out there on the hill."

Well, now we know why Ledee was playing.

502. The 65 team is still my favorite Dodger team. 1955 was one year before I was born so I have no connection to it. I'd love to see McCourt do something for the 65 team. Especially since most of that team is probably still alive.

502 Yes, they had a celebration at the stadium and had the 65 team show up. Sweet Lou Johnson made it all worthwhile.
Was a big fan of the 65 Twin team. Whatever happended to Jimmy Hall? Maybe the best rookie season ever for someone no one has ever heard off. Mudcat Grant and Jim Kaat were two of my favorite's.

513 Flouride!

The 65 team just got swept by the hated Giants in the Strat-O-Matic retro NLCS recently held at my house.

Hard to say who looks like they got the better end of "the trade" from this series. Lo Duca basically beat us yesterday, Hee Seop was key in tonight's game. Penny pitched a crappy game and Mota's getting rocked. Encarnacions was 1-2 yesterday, looks like Heart and Soul barely edges out the laptop so far this series.

carrara is in werth's spot, not ledee's

Molokai, they already did something? I didn't know that.

Forget it. Werth was taken out.

The Hawai'i kids play tomorrow.

the hawaii team looks very very legit. when i saw them play, they look like a powerhouse. im rooting for them, they also have the coolest hair/names out of all the american teams.

#502, It is odd they would have the 1965 Twins reunion this weekend with Ron Fairly in town broadcasting for the Mariners. Ron had a great W.S. in 65.

Stan from Tacoma

518 Nope, not that. We have the loonies out here who have successfully fought fluoridation so far, despite what the ADA and the Hawai'i dentists say and what the teeth statistics prove.

Maybe it's kim chee.

520 - Don't forget, Billy Murphy got us Finley's grand slam.

Any of Sid Fernandez' kids on the team?

519 Not surprised, that wasn't that good of a team which made the World Championship all that much better. Truly a team built on pitching and a nice rookie season from Frenchy.
In 65 Willie Mays hit 52 home runs to lead the National League. What is bizarre is that Tony Conigliaro led the American League with only 32.

Ghame over dude!

517
jimmie hall is alive and well in north carolina, working as a cabinet maker, i belive. the startribune had a big story about him a couple of weeks ago. he refused to come out for the celebration because he said noone from the twins ever bothered to contact him during the past 35 years that he's been out of baseball, so he didn't feel obligated to come running when they called this year.

it's too bad, because the twins do a pretty good job of keeping the alumni involved. unless they assault women in restaurants, and then they conveniently disappear.

Suns now up 2-0 in 4th. Orenduff pitching well thru 3.

Big Boy Clark just put the D-Backs up 4-1 with a 3-run jack in the 8th.

531Thanks for the update. Is Bobby Allison still alive?

"Big Boy Clark just put the D-Backs up 4-1 with a 3-run jack in the 8th."
---------

The words "jack" and "clark" in the same sentence always results in bad news for the Dodgers.

2 on, 1 out. Conine coming up to bat. Sanchez warming up in the pen.

#519, Glad there was no NLCS in those days.

Stan from Tacoma

534
no, allison died a few years ago. i don't recall the disease (lou gehrig's?). he was inducted into the twins hall of fame a couple years ago.

the twins have only a few retired numbers (oliva, killebrew, carew, puckett, hrbek), but have a slew of players and others in their hall of fame (e.g. blyleven, allison, earl battey, tom kelly, and the late pa announcer, bob casey).

It's Duaner time!

Brazoban with a 99 mph strike for 3-2...then issues a walk to Conine.

sexson/beltre back to back, btw

The Sun announcer is easy to listen to unlike the Stieners/Mondays/Downing/Lyons that we get. Or maybe our guys are so bad that anything sounds better.

He just used the phrase "segmented delivery".

I know Yhency wants to be a good pal to Choi and give him a chance to homer, but it would be better if he hurt Choi's feeling right now

Wow, the Mets bullpen is doing its best to blow their 8-0 lead, it's now 8-6 after the immortal Danny Graves started to let it slip away.

The Suns announcer is pretty good. He also gives updates from other Dodger farm teams, which is nice.

538Have to agree with Rob Neyer that Blyleven is the most qualified player currently not in the HOF.

Is Colbrun making it to the mound today?

Joe Block pointed out an interesting tidbit. After giving up an extra-inning Grand Slam to Justin Ruggiano, Joey Devine gives up an extra-inning Grand Slam to Xavier Nady three days later.

Mariners and Twins are 2-2. Sexson and Beltre back to back HR

Stan from Tacoma

546 - Most qualified caucasian player, I agree. I think Minnie Miñoso and a slew of Negro Leaguers are better qualified, though.

Phew!

Yeah Duaner.

Guame over dude!!

Eric have you been reading the BP articles by Clay Davenport on his Objective HOF? Very interesting and enjoyable reading.

Duaner is making it very hard to criticize him

546
yeah, don't get me started on blyleven. his curveball and berman's nickname are enough to put him in in my book. cw is that he irritated many voters by saying that he didn't care to be in the hall if tony oliva wasn't in it. this next year may be his best chance, since the 1st year eligibles are not too impressive (sorry, bulldog).

so who wants to make the guame over shirts with a picture of duaner?

Stan, they're actually letting Felix pitch into the 7th even though he's almost up to 100 pitches. What happened to babying him?

molokai,
No, I haven't seen them -- are they free or pay?

Don't know, I'm a subscriber so I don't know. Here is the link
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4347

#542& 545, the Vegas broadcaster is better than Steiner/Monday. As a matter of fact I think most minor league broadcasts are better than major league broadcasts these days.

Stan from Tacoma

Thanks for the link molokai, but alas, they're pay.

blyleven is one of the twins tv announcers. he just laughed at the notion of hernandez reaching 100 pitches - "i hope he doesn't explode".

blyleven doesn't believe in pitch counts.

Suns 2 Mississippi 2, Top 5

#558, don't know. The way he was shaking hands with everyone in the dugout after the 5th, I thought he was being taken out of the game.

Stan from Tacoma

To bad.

Just want to thank everyone for an enjoyable way to spend the day watching the game. It was like sitting with a bunch of friends. Next time I'll try to make the game so I can put faces to the names. Of course it helps that we played a kick ass game today.

563 I would be shocked that any of the old time pitchers who were in 4 man rotations and slagged so many innings would. Often wondered how many old time pitchers were pitching with torn labrums/rotator cuff problems and just had to pitch because there was no alternative.
When you read Sandy Koufax's bio it is amazing the pain he dealt with while pitching.

RBI single for LaRoche
Suns 3 Mississippi 2
LaRoche's 29th RBI since callup

Well, someone mentioned early in the thread how today's performance could make or break Tracy continuing to do it, hopefully 11 runs in an extreme pitcher's park will inspire him to keep it going. Even if he puts Izturis back in, I really hope he's in the 8 spot with Navarro and Werth moving up a spot and Valentin out of the line-up.

laroches power has gone down a bit. not nearly enough doubles for my liking.

Mariners have 2 on and 1 out in the 8th. Maybe Felix can get a win.

Stan from Tacoma

OK, Choi has 5 good at-bats and the postgame radio guest is... Tim Wallach?

#569: Or perhaps Tracy will rationalize that Moehler and Valdez must have appropriate arm angles.

#570: It's possible that LaRoche could start next season with Jacksonville, since there's nobody forcing the promotion from below.

Still tied. Felix is on the mound for bottom of the 8th.

Stan from Tacoma

574 - Also Aybar needs a place to play, and Delwyn will presumably be the LV 2B next year.

Izturis needs to be the utility infielder the rest of the season.

Today's lineup was great with the exception of Valentin over Perez. If Trace fixes that, and keeps everything else mostly the same, we're going to go on a run.

Felix gets through 8 with 114 pitches

Going to the 9th still tied 2-2. Hope the Mariners get a run and get the kid the win.

Stan from Tacoma

#576: I thought about that as well, but I'm hoping Aybar starts next season with the Dodgers.

Me too.

Actually, both pitchers of record are on my roto team, so I just hope somebody scores.

581 was in re 579...

#576 Eric, of the players for Vegas I saw, Aybar was the most impressive. Made a couple of good plays at third and hit a few line drives.

Stan from Tacoma

Still would like the Dodgers to trade LaRoche and another prospect for Marte. Marte is ready now and could be our starting 3b in 2006 while LaRoche would be ready to replace Chipper Jones in 2007. A win/win for both teams.

#583: I felt the same way. I saw the 51s play in Colorado Springs and Aybar looked very solid. He crushed a homerun to straight away center that cleared the wall by about 20' feet.

Going to bottom of the 9th, still tied, Mariners & Twins, 2-2

Stan from Tacoma

I think Aybar will spend another year in Vegas, or at least 1/2 a year. If A Perez can't play 3b for Tracy then no way D Young will ever play the infield for a Tracy team.

584 - is marte more patient than laroche? i am not sure. plus the braves have another incentive: andys bro plays for the braves

Felix out of the game. 8 inning no decision.

Stan from Tacoma

#584: LaRoche is rated a little higher than Marte from what I've read. I understand the intent of the trade, but I don't see why we would include an extra prospect in the deal.

Or we could just trade somebody else for Marte and use an Andy-Andy platoon at third.

And hope they don't turn into serial killers.

584 - Marte is rated the #1 prospect in all of baseball by BP.

592 - unless laroches older brother made a push that deal would probably not happen

#587: That's one reason that I could see Aybar starting the season with the Dodgers next year. Aybar is known for his strong defensive skills, but he also has good plate discipline and a little bit of pop.

dodgers are getting some notice on baseball america. nobody on the hot prospect sheet but edwin jackson and russell martin are in the 'team picture'.

I would like to see the Dodgers get a solid starter for LaRoche or whoever. I would be willing at most to go with one out of three of Lowe, Weaver, Perez. I don't like Weaver and I don't see anyone taking Lowe's contract, so I guess that leaves Derek if I was running things.

Tracy gets a lot of grief here, but I don't like the pitching staff DePo has constructed. I would have offered O.P. arbitration and only signed Lowe for fewer dollars and years.

Stan from Tacoma

From Rotoworld:

He [Choi] scored three runs. Cesar Izturis has scored 15 runs in his last 54 games while batting leadoff. Despite having an 1103 OPS in 31 games as a No. 2 hitter, Choi hadn't hit there in more than two months. When Jim Tracy is let go in the offseason, the Dodgers should inform him that his stubborn refusal to bat Choi where the first baseman was obviously most comfortable and from where he could most help the team is reason No. 1. Unfortunately, Choi will head right back to the bench with the Marlins throwing left-handers the next two days

It has an excellent point, no Hee Seop starting for awhile

"only signed Lowe for fewer dollars and years"
-------

That's fantasy talk. If he could have done that, he would have.

I'm not the biggest fan of these pitchers either, but it was either these guys or Erickson, Dessens, and Totten. I think DePo made the call he had to make under the circumstances.

Mariners up 3-2

Stan from Tacoma

I had to drive farther to go buy my dinner since I realized that the game wasn't televised and it was easier to listen in the car.

It was a weird day all around. When I came to work to help set up for a program that the Small Business Administration I found out that somebody had covered up the flyer promoting it with a flyer promoting a local rally by the Communist Party.

#592: Baseball Prospectus also ranked Willy Aybar the 34th best prospect in baseball :). Baseball America rated Marte the 9th best prospect coming into the season and LaRoche the 12th best prospect as of mid-season. Unfortunately, Marte was not on the mid-season list for a direct comparison, since he had been called up at the time. So, it looks like Marte is probably ranked a bit higher, but it's not clear that the difference is enough to warrant an additional prospect.

596 - saying that you 'don't like Weaver' takes away a lot of your credibility. he is a solid starter and trading him would be pretty dumb. depo has assembled a solid staff with nobody BAD in it. if we can get an ace, we will be great. we are lucky to have three number two starters, we just need a number 1 (brad penny is a 1.5)

596 - I don't like the rotation much, either, but with the lack of available pitching I understand why. I hope Billingsley and Jackson are up as soon as possible. If we have Perez as our #5 starter, that'd make for a good rotation.

#598: Very true. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, the free agent market was not good for pitchers and doesn't look to be any better this offseason. That is why our list of pitching prospects keeps me warm and cozy at night.

Someone wants Laroche in a win-win trade? Could it be an Atlanta fan? Aybar and Delwyn won't have a Major League position. I like SS Izi
3B Laroche
LF Guzz
Aybar and Young are tradebait.

i think marte and laroche will end up as similar players.

The Mets bullpen has officially blown the game. Pedro left with a 8 run lead...

605 - i love izi as a person but he is trash as a player. he is a good fielder but he is a terrible hitter. there is no way that paul depodesta resigns him after next. he is not stupid. guzz is the shortstop of the future, antonio is the 2b of the future, and first base can vary

606 - you are right, they will both be the NL all-stars of the future, and they will battle for the starting spot. i think laroch has a better arm

592 Andy Marte "was" rated the top prospect in baseball by BP before the season, but that should be Delmon Young's title now that he is at the same level as Marte (AAA). BP describes Marte as "a player that really doesn't do anything exceptionally well". Well, I rather have the younger player who is an exceptional hitter with tremendous power.

you are right, they will both be the NL all-stars of the future, and they will battle for the starting spot. i think laroch has a better arm

laroche does have the better arm. but both project to be middle of the order bats with 30+ homerun power and a 275-300 average. I think laroche might be a little better defensively though.

610 - i think that delmon is overrated. does not walk. at all.

Eric,

I grant you the pitching staff was a mess at the end of 2004. That said, I would rather see a parade of Triple A pitchers than multi years of Lowe and Odalis. Although it would not sell tickets this year,at least next year I would not have to see those guys on the mound for the Dodgers. If Lowe did not want a shorter contract then he could go elsewhere.

Mariners have broken it open in the 10th. Too bad the scoring can't be changed to give the win to Felix.

Stan from Tacoma

delmon does have talent

Suns have 5 doubles tonight, 2 of them by the steroid-aided Jon Weber.

Marte is ready right now, Laroche isn't. I agree that they could end up as similiar players but right now what we have from Laroche is one awesome 1st half. He was not rated that high coming into the season and while he's done okay at Jacksonville, he has done nothing to knock your socks off. The only reason I add an extra prospect and I'm not talking anyone special but we can go 20 deep and still give Atlanta something worthwhile is because Marte is ready right now and we sure as hell could use him now and in 2006.

Steve must be thrilled, Zito just gave up the lead to the Royals, albeit in the 4th inning

Similar indeed..

Andy Marte born 10/21/1983
Andy LaRoche born 9/13/1983

Andy Marte 2005 AAA: .261/.363/.477
Andy LaRoche 2005 AA: .265/.356/.451

Why are we talking about Delmon Young? He is the property of Tampa Bay. No doubt he will be the number one prospect in 2006.

619 - no doubt i do not want him. del is a spectacular athlete with no plate discipline. my favorite player to be is russell martin. i like everything about this guy for a catcher

618Without league data comparing the two means nothing.

#612: Young's 25 BBs in 330 ABs isn't all that bad. On the other hand, leading the Southern League with a .582 slugging while stealing 25 bases at 19 years old is superhuman.

LaRoche hasn't been hitting for enough power...

Of course, he just hit a 2-run HR over the center field fence for a 6-2 Suns lead.

Guzman follows with the Suns' 6th double.

laroche was pretty highly rated by scouts coming into this season. in the BA write up, they said laroche had 40 homer potential and he was rated # 6 in the dodgers list and in the top 60 or 70 on the top 100 list.

Mariners win 8-3

Stan from Tacoma

lol! laroche just homered!??!?!

awesome! maybe now he'll bust out of his slump.

he started out incredibly hot in his first 120 or so ABs in AA, then he cooled off, then he got in a HBP streak with one on his wrist, and hopefully now hes healthy to go on a tear.

622 - ok you are right and i am wrong. i just wish he was on the dodgers. now can we stop talking about him?

"He was not rated that high coming into the season"
-------

Patently false.

LaRoche was rated #76 on Baseball America's top 100 list after his first full pro season.

#621: Southern League and International League. The Southern League and Jacksonville are both considered pitcher friendly. I don't know anything about the International League, but Richmond is about equivalent to Jacksonville within the league context.

612 You don't have to walk like Adam Dunn to be great, just look at the VORP leaderbaord and take a glance at Miguel Tejada or Miguel Cabrera. And I'm sure you've heard of Juan Gonzalez.

BTW, Laroche just hit a 2-run HR...

maybe its biased, but from watching a lot of suns games and watching laroche play, i just like him a lot and i want him to come up and be a dodger for a long time.

I'm not questioning Laroche's talent. I think he's loaded but we have a serious hole at 3b and Laroche will not fill it this year or next year and Marte will and we seem to agree that they are similiar players so wouldn't you want the one who can contribute now.

The worst thing I can say about LaRoche is he has crappy taste in movies, according to that page nate posted the other day.

#628: Would you trade Billingsley and Martin for Delmon?

632 - amen

635 - no. i might do billingsley and navarro, but i love martin

I'd probably rather have Marte than LaRoche simply because a player who's already succeeded at a higher level is more of a certainty for major league success.

I sure ain't complaining about having LaRoche, though.

but molokai, do you think the braves would do that trade? prospects for prospects trades are pretty rare.

In a heartbeat but Tampa would never trade D Young.

BA's take:

5. ANDY LaROCHE, 3b Age: 21 B-T: R-R Ht: 5-11 Wt: 185
Drafted: Grayson County (Texas) CC, 2003 (39th round) Signed by: Mike Leuzinger

Background: The Dodgers had to fight the commissioner's office's bonus recommendations to sign LaRoche for $1 million in 2003. After establishing himself as the best hitter in the Cape Cod League that summer, they believe he'd become a first-rounder if he went to Rice. His father Dave was an all-star pitcher and his brother Adam starts at first base for the Braves.

Strengths: LaRoche has big-time power potential. He has good strength, a quick bat and excellent load for his swing, helping him generate backspin and loft. He owns the organization's best arm and has above-average range and hands. He's an average runner.

Weaknesses: LaRoche is almost exclusively a pull hitter and can be overaggressive in his approach. He swings and misses too often, so he may never hit for a huge average. He battled arm soreness, which led to some throwing errors, after moving to third base last year. He played shortstop before turning pro.

The Future: If he reaches his ceiling, LaRoche could hit 35-40 homers annually. He may start 2005 back in high Class A but should reach Double-A by the end of the season.

----------------

2. ANDY MARTE, 3b Age: 21 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-1 Wt.: 185
Signed: Dominican Republic, 2000 Signed by: Rene Francisco/Julian Perez

Background: No. 1 on this list a year ago, Marte turned in another solid season. He appeared in the Futures Game and rated as the top prospect in the Double-A Southern League. Despite missing a month with sprains in both ankles, he finished second in homers among Braves farmhands.

Strengths: Marte's ability to drive the ball to all fields with plus power is outstanding and getting better. He already shows patience at the plate. His glovework is also above average, as managers named him the best defensive third baseman and top infield arm in the Southern League. He oozes intangibles, showing impressive maturity for his age.

Weaknesses: Marte's swing has a slight uppercut and can get a little long when he tires, but the Braves consider those minor problems. Still, his strikeout rate jumped in 2004. His trunk has gotten a little thick over the past two years and might need monitoring.

The Future: Marte is the Braves' long-term answer at third base. He needs at least another half-season in the minors and will begin 2005 at Triple-A Richmond, but he could be in place on a full-time basis as soon as Opening Day 2006. His potential as an impact all-around player is unquestioned.

#602, When I say I don't like Weaver I mean just that. I don't like his actions on the mound or in the dugout. He seems very immature to me. He is not someone I want to see in a Dodger uniform.

Stan from Tacoma

also, i emailed minor league splits to fearing blue, and jax stadium plays as a notorious pitchers park.

about every prospect on the suns hits about 60+ pts better on the road.

except for martin, his road/home splits are pretty even. i think its because jax suppresses a lot of power stats and well, martin has not hit for power this yr heh.

#637: I have a somewhat irrational feeling that Navarro is going to turn out to be the better catcher. Currently, they both have almost exactly the same skills, so whoever develops the most power will have the most value. I understand that scouts project Martin for more power, but I've yet to read a good explanation why.

639probably not but at least I stirred up a debate.

644 - I dunno about the power, but Martin has pretty consistently demonstrated a better ability to hit for average. Navarro is more of a mediocre BA/high walk kind of player.

this is very good progression for kemp.

in his last 73 or so ABs, hes walked 11 times.

maybe hes starting to "get it"

Speak of the devil, Martin scores to make it 7-2

Navarro is more of a mediocre BA/high walk kind of player.

that is basically what martin was before this year.

also remember that navarro hit .371 as a 19 yr old in AA. Both are the same to me prospect wise. hopefully we can keep both for the next couple of years.

I have been shockingly impressed with Navarro. Russ Martin looks like he could be Jason Kendall. That would be a good thing as long as he never gets the contract that the Pirates gave Kendall.

So if Tracy holds to his plan of alternating Navarro and Phillips behind the plate who will be starting at first? Saenz or Kent?

The next two Marlins starters are lefties.

Sorry if this has been discussed earlier.

644 - they both seem like future fan favorites. i just like russell a little more. it would be great to keep them both

I take it that the posters left are all here because were listening to the Sun's game?

649 - Picking nits, it was .341 and it was less than half a season. Point well taken nonetheless.

651 Maybe we go with an offensive lineup with Saenz at 3b, Kent at 1st and Perez at 2nd.

650 - i will put my trust in the front office. they have the videotape and stats to find out who is truly the better of the two. maybe one has a whole in his swing that we do not know about. who is older?

#646: That's partially what I'm concerned about. The only parts of AVG that consistently translate to higher levels are Ks and HRs. Navarro strikes out less often than Martin (10.0% vs. 16.3%) probably hits homeruns about the as often once translated for park and league effects (2.5% vs. 1.7%). The remainder of the difference in their AVGs is BABIP which always seems like a bubble ready to burst (e.g. Joe Thurston).

when vargas pitched for the mudcats against the suns, i could have swore he was right handed

Wonder if Dodgers would be willing to go with Martin/Navarro next year.

Stan from Tacoma

#656: Navarro is almost exactly a year younger than Martin.

Dioner Navarro was born 2/9/84.
Russell Martin was born 2/15/83.

#653, I am listening to Royals/A's on XM

Stan from Tacoma

657 - While I see your point, I'm not sure that I agree. Hitters definitely have a lot of control over BABIP, much moreso than pitchers. And Navarro's offensive numbers at AAA have been pretty lousy in both of his stints there.

i have been gone for a week. has navarro shown any defensive flashes of briliance?

#659: But what about Mr. Clutchity-Clutch?

Jason Vargas is lefty all the way. Probably the only Dodger who has faced him is Navarro.

659 - I sure hope so. With Martin being a RH batter and Navarro a switch hitter who has much more experience batting LH, I could see them as our catching platoon for the next decade.

Change of pitchers for Royals... Wood out, Sisco gives up lead off double.

Stan from Tacoma

666 - they would be quiet butt very unhappy

#662: I'm not quite sure I agree either, but like Jim Tracy I enjoy citing statistics to support my irrational beliefs :). I'm very hopeful that Martin's high BABIP this season is an improvement in skills vs. an anomaly.

how about guzman? his BA is up to .290 now. he has been pretty consisten all year, hovering between 270-295. nothing spectacular, but very solid for a 20 yr old.

Eric, I agree. But I wonder if they won't want a more experienced catcher around. Two young catchers might cause some managers a problem.

Stan from Tacoma

I would think they would start with Navarro/Philips and then switch over to a Navarro/Martin tandem by the All-Star game.
Philips does have some uses and being a backup catcher would be one of them. We shouldn't hate him because Tracy chose to start him at 1st base.

With Guzman it is not just his offense but his defense. I have seen nothing that shows he's ready to start 2006 in the Major Leagues. I'm still his biggest fan since we share a birthday but I don't think we should count on him in the beginning of 2006.

#672: That seems to be the likely course. As long as he isn't used at first base, I'd be very happy with Phillips as a backup catcher.

We shouldn't hate him because Tracy chose to start him at 1st base.

But we do. We just do. But I agree. Phillips is a very functional backup catcher and if limited to that purpose, could even be an asset.

Vegas could be fun next year if we start the season with
Loney/Young/Guzman/Aybar/Martin
or
Loney/Aybar/Guzman/LaRoche with Young in the OF
or
Loney/Young/Guzman/Laroche/Martin

Would make several trips to check out that lineup.

With Guzman it is not just his offense but his defense. I have seen nothing that shows he's ready to start 2006 in the Major Leagues. I'm still his biggest fan since we share a birthday but I don't think we should count on him in the beginning of 2006.

im not counting on him start of next year either.

i would like all the positional prospects at jax to spend at least half a year at AAA next year. and if they are putting up conor jackson/carlos quentin type numbers, then we can start thinking about calling some of them up.

Bases loaded for A's in the 6th. Royals still have the lead.

Stan from Tacoma

The Dodgers have had pairs of inexperienced catchers before. Joe Ferguson didn't have much more experience than Steve Yeager.

hopefully the 51s will have a lot of games in tucson in april/may.

anyone know if the PCL schedule is up for next yr?

#670: I am concerned that Guzman will struggle a bit in AAA next year. His overall line (.289/.351/.488) is great, but the 119 Ks in 412 ABs indicate some contact problems that could be exposed by advanced pitching.

Its probably been cleared up now, but we are talking about Delwyn Young, not the young super prospect Delmon! And Laroche has far the higher ceiling while Marte may be a surer bet. With the stack in the system, ceiling is much more important!

Here comes Ambiorix

Going to be a tough winter for Depo. He has so many prospects that are just about ready but not ready to help in the beginning. How do you build a team to compete from the beginning but not create roadblocks like Arizona has done with Green and now Tony Clark. T Clark is carrying that team. What a story.

#676: The rotation with Billingsley, Jackson, Orenduff, and Stults should be fun to watch as well, even if they all end up with 4+ ERAs.

#684: The winter will be even tougher if Werth continues to hit. Up until a few weeks ago, I thought the obvious move would be to add an impact bat in LF, but now I'm not so sure.

Come on Royals. Being a Clipper fan I hate to see any fan have to go through what the Royal fans are going through.

the suns relief pitching is trying to give the game away.

Royals still have the lead after 6th. Need to do some other things. Thanks for good conversation. As I have said before this is the best baseball website around.

Stan from Tacoma

#688: They used all the good relievers last night. Alvarez is good, but very young, and will be back next season. Gonzalez's early success was all smoke and mirrors in my opinion.

686Yes, Werth does make things difficult. I would still try to add an impact bat because I don't think he'll ever stay healthy enough to play a full season. I'd rather he start the season as our 4th outfielder and play when Drew or Bradley goes down. I love Nate's idea of bringing in Giles but I feel he will leave the West and head back to the Central/East. If your going to have Drew/Bradley/Werth as your starting outfield you better have more then Ledee as your backup outfielder.

Really the only ways to improve the offense in the offseason would be to add an impact bat at 1B, 3B, or LF. And all three of these things have drawbacks.

1B: Block Choi.
3B: Block Guzman/LaRoche
LF: Render Werth useless

I think the latter is by far the most preferable of the three options. Werth would be a pretty good 4th OF, or trade bait.

#689: Goodnight Stan. I always appreciate your contributions to the conversation.

Ambiorix is money.

692agree, I'd go with option 3. If we do add a 3b assuming that Depo does not think that Aybar/Perez/Robles are the answer who could be available for a one year contract. I know Koskie would be available since the Bluejays need to get A Hill into the lineup but I think he still has two years to go on a fairly expensive contract. Anyone else?

#692: I agree. I still like the Giles idea, because we could move Drew to CF and Giles to RF if we don't re-sign Bradley. I'm expecting that by 2007, one of Guzman, Young, Ruggiano, or Kemp will be forcing themselves into our plans in the outfield.

A. Martinez on KFWB's post game show reports that there's been a clubhouse dust up between Bradley and an unnamed player whom Bradley describes as playing for a (HOF) plaque. Martinez speculates that there may be a racial component, because Bradley made referrence to being the only player on the team who "looks like [himself]".

Been fun, gotta go, movie night and it is Sin City.

Anyone remember when Jose Offerman was the next Ty Cobb/Wills/Belanger about to land in LA. Shortstops have no visability-the good ones appear from nowhere. Why is this?

697

We all knew it was just a matter of time before Milton Bradley and Steve Schmoll would come to blows.

#695: The only interesting free agent options at third base are Bill Mueller and Joe Randa. I can't see how either of those two or Koskie would be a significant improvement over some combination of Aybar, Perez, and Robles. Brian Giles or bust!

697 How many players do we have who might be playing for a HOF plaque? Kent, and...anyone else should be shot if they think they're going to the HOF (excluding the rookies who are actually good). I hope it's Phillips, or Tracy if he somehow qualifies

I'd be shocked! Shocked! Shocked beyond belief if Jeff Kent had an argument with a teammate! Unbelievable! It would be unprecedented.

Jeff Kent is the kindest, sweetest, gentlest person I know!

The one drawback about giles would be the injuries. Bradley and Drew already have problems with that. I think its a legitimate concern if you're adding giles to the equation.

Yeah, it's interesting how Kent seems to be the common denominator in these blowups with volatile and outspoken black players.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin.

I wonder if this derails the hopes of signing Bradley to a Hafner contract.

#700: Bradley has expressed prior concerns over Schmoll's NIH research methods.

691 - i have been dreaming of b giles ever since i found out he would be a FA... atlanta might want him

The one drawback about giles would be the injuries. Bradley and Drew already have problems with that. I think its a legitimate concern if you're adding giles to the equation.

i always thought giles was/is a very durable player.

Alex Cora would never have gotten in an argument with Milton Bradley.

I don't know why Giles would necessarily want to go back to the East Coast, unless it was Atlanta. Guy's from Southern CA.

giles is from socal, el cajon specifically. so if the padres dont want to pony up the cash to resign him, he might look towards LA because thats the next closest to his home, and he might want to have his last contract playing on a team thats close to where he grew up (ie kent)

#704: In that case, our backup outfielders would be Werth and Ledee, so the risk could very well be worth the benefit.

Been studying like a fiend for six weeks solid. It's still going on but is winding down. That's my long story short. But I had to drop in and say this:

*700+ comments??+

Wow.

Uh... make that 700+ comments, wow.

Some things never change. I still make a bazillion mistakes...

Since Giles became a regular player he's missed 71 games, an average of 10.0 games per season. Of course, any player his age (Giles would be 35) is pretty much automatically an injury risk.

Delwyn Young blasted a homerun against Adam Eaton, so it looks like we may have someone who can hit him, finally. We've been shut out by Eaton enough times already. Nakamura also has 2 hits off him, so maybe he can hit major league pitching...

I just broke Babe Ruth's record.

Nyah-nyah-nya-nyah-nyaaaah!

"giles is from socal, el cajon specifically. so if the padres dont want to pony up the cash to resign him, he might look towards LA because thats the next closest to his home"
-------

Wouldn't that be Anaheim?

LA. Anaheim. Same difference, apparently.

691 - i have been dreaming of b giles ever since i found out he would be a FA... atlanta might want him

708. You're right. Giles has only missed parts of 2003. I looked it up. I thought he had been out on other occasions.

Aren't all Padre free agents expected to resign with the Padres and at a reduced salary because San Diego is the most wonderful city on earth? And if they do sign with another team, they get an effigy of them beaten up by a guy in an oversize foam rubber Friar costume?

I'm probably late with this punch line but with Choi's game today, he probably just bought himself four games worth of pine.

722 - b giles will NOT resign with SD because he hates PETCO... everybody does

Except, of course, pitchers.

For what its worth, I heard Sandy Alderson on the radio the other day and he was very optimistic about Giles staying in SD, and also very frank about not being able to keep Ramon Hernandez.

#711: Giles will be 35 next year, so I don't expect DePodesta to offer him more than 3 years. The Dodgers should have the money to make it a very lucrative 3 years, but could still lose him if another team is willing to sign him to a longer contract.

725 - oh ya, forgot about that.

it is hard to play right field there because of that funky semicircle

this sounds dumb, but i would choose resigning weaver over giles

Kielty has doubled off Affeldt. The A's only have 5 outs to continue the Royal's streak

Dave Roberts has a career high seven home runs this season and his hit four of them at PETCO.
Roberts has hit as many home runs at PECTO this season as Giles.

#720: The very rare double post separated by 12 other posts :). I think Atlanta is pretty happy with the young outfield talent they have.

732 - ya i thought i was posting something else but then i went back and i reposted by accident... does that make sense?

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050820/APS/508201056

Some more details on the Bradley "incident". Now I have a reason to watch the SCSR tonight.

i am so glad we traded lo duca and mota in that trade for penny and choi. florida got completely worked

If Werth keeps hitting, I'm not so sure about Giles anymore. All we need is enough depth for injuries, and Cruz and Ledee could provide that, and we can have a very strong outfield.

The infield outside of 3B is also "set"... and if Perez can play 3B, it may be hard to upgrade that, too. Well, we can try SS, but I doubt we'll find anybody.

I think we can actually field a pretty good lineup right now, even without Drew. We're "solid" at most positions, so the free agent bat would have to be "great."

#729: They would likely require similar contracts, perhaps 3 years / $28.5 million for Giles, and 4 years / $34 million for Weaver. The question would be whether the difference between Giles and Werth is greater than the difference between Weaver and one of Jackson, Stults, Sanchez, etc. as our fifth starter. The other benefit with Giles is that our farm system is much weaker for outfielders than for starting pitchers.

734 From the article, I see this quote: "Some people, that's all their life is - is baseball ... how many hits they get, how many runs they drive in, how many plays they make," Bradley said. "They're working for a plaque. I'm not working for a plaque. I'm working to put food on my table."

I think he's talking about Jeff Kent. Of course, that's just reckless speculation on my part but dammit, what else is the internet for?

MacDougal finished the inning. The A's have 3 runs to continue the streak, and they get to do it against MacDougal, who hasn't blown a save since May 8th (he did give up 7 runs in .2 IP during Cleveland's amazing comeback a week ago)

About Bradley,
What'd he do? Have a talk with Tracy?

740, please meet 734

Giles also only has 8 HR's on the road this season. I don't know if he'd even hit 25 next year. I don't think that's a significant increase over Werth. The best place to pick up the difference seems to be 3rd.

How many times has Jeff Kent said he's just working to put food on his table?

The last time we had something like this, it was Scott Erickson.

The Royals are playing more .800+ OPS guys today than the White Sox. The Sox have 1 reular over .800 (Konerko, who didn't play today), whereas the Royals have 3 (Sweeney, Stairs, and Ambres with a small sample size)

Well, at least Bradley just talked to Tracy instead of some reporter.

734- "Roy Smith, vice president for scouting and player development, sat in on part of the meeting [between Bradley and Tracy]."

Any guesses what that might mean?

I feel like Lovitz/Dukakis right now:

"I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!"

#736: That's the wrinkle. It only makes sense to upgrade where it's a clear upgrade. Other than Giles, none of the free agents are a clear upgrade over Werth in left field. At third base, none of the free agent options are a clear upgrade over Perez. There are a lot of options at starting pitcher that would be an upgrade over our anonymous 5th starter, but they would come at a high cost and likely block our pitching prospects in 2007 and 2008.

When asked by a reporter if he was OK, Bradley replied, "I'm always OK. As long as I'm black, I'm fine."

So I guess he's ok, unless he's planning some kind of bizzare Michael Jackson surgery.

746 - Roy Smith is one of the few black front office people around... maybe Milton really feels this is a racial thing.

His quote in the article makes it sound like he's considering hiring a hitman to take out Kent.

I hear Oscar Robles is available.

Not to derail any juicy details about clubhouse fights, but here's my daily Sportscenter rant:

In an 11-6 game, the one play they chose to show the Dodgers in a positive light was Werth walking to drive in a run (with the comment that it was a cheap run). They showed Penny giving up both homers and Delgado's catch/smash into the foul territory wall.

746
Roy Smith probably sat in so he could report back to the front office what Bradley's beef was.

#742: With only 12 HRs, Giles still has a .902 OPS. Even if we are comparing to Werth circa 2004 (.824 OPS) and not considering ballpark adjustments, that's still a significant increase.

So who's going to be our Dick Drago?

Where's JD Drew been? They're the ones that would seem to have the history ("clashing" over centerfield, such as that was) and the accusation (whatever it is) would make more sense.

Its so frustrating that we will go to spring training with two huge questions (albeit for different reasons) -- can Werth play? Can Choi play? We should have those answers by now.

750- Are you saying Mexicans are all hit men? I demand a meeting with Jon!

#743: Does anyone know the size of Bradley's family? With the $1.73 million he made last year and $2.5 million he's making this year, I'm assuming quite large.

750 / Eric - Roy Smith is one of the few black front office people around

Isn't Roy Smith this (white) guy?

http://www.autograph-cards.com/Cards%5CBigCards%5C011799.jpg

Choi starts and hits 2nd in the lineup and Dodgers roll... Missed much of the game and wasn't online at all until now, so I'm not sure what was and wasn't said in the previous 750+ posts. I'm sure Steve is very happy, except for the Royals possibly beating the A's tonight. If you take a look at the last 6 (it might be 7). In every game that the Dodgers lost, Phillips started. In every game that the Dodgers won, either Saenz or Choi started at 1B. The trend is getting even more pronounced. What was the deal with the Milton Bradley closed door meeting after the game? Who on the team is he upset with?

vr, Xei

The A's have lost, the Royals won't reach the record

750

Roy Smith is black?

Really?

http://tinyurl.com/blmyj

Are you sure about that?

The Suns game is heading into the eleventh inning with the score tied 7-7.

And there go the A's. (Pac-man dissolving sound)

We've passed Hammerin' Hank! Sadaharu, you are next!

759 I'm guessing Bradley is including his academies and charities as part of his "family"

I'm glad Bradley didn't say:

"I'm always OK. As long as Roy Smith is black, I'm fine."

Because then there might have been problems.

750 - Hmm... I seem to remember Moneyball said he was.

But I guess not.

762 The Michael Jackson surgery in reverse, no?

#750 Eric, for Kent's sake, I hope it is Izzy rather than Robles, at least as long as Izzy is still in a slump. Good for the Royals by the way.

Stan from Tacoma

767 LOL.

But I can definitely confirm that all Mexicans are hitmen. Including myself.

How come nobody mentioned that tonight was another "Fun With Danny Graves" night at the ballpark?

And there go the A's. (Pac-man dissolving sound)

Is that the sound from the arcade or from the Atari 2600 version?

753. It's also a signigicant payroll increase. I just don't know if it's worth it to sign someone that old to a three year deal when their skills may be diminishing. It's true though, that Giles may be the best thing available this offseason. Whatever happened to Antonio Perez learning to play LF?

Is that the sound from the arcade or from the Atari 2600 version?

Whatever Billy says. Billy is my Lord and Master now.

How many HR did Oh end up with by the way?

Stan from Tacoma

776 - William Blake would say that we are all equal parts Billy Beane and Jim Tracy.

868 is the number to shoot for.

#773: Good for Graves for keeping his Mets ERA (7.03) below his Reds ERA (7.36)! Speaking of washed up relievers, didn't someone want us to pick up Remlinger? He's put together a sparkling 19.80 ERA in 6 appearances with the Red Sox so far. And the guy the Red Sox dropped, Alan Embree, has managed a 6.75 ERA in 10 appearances for the Yankees. Middle relief is fun!

Unfortunately, we Americans won't be able to catch Oh's record. Every manager in Japan will intentionally walk us before we get there.

#775: That experiment may continue during Spring Training next year, but I doubt Perez would hit as well as Werth over any extended period of time.

It's a little-known fact that Jim Tracy was once Billy Beane's most beautiful angel.

781 -- Perhaps we could have Tracy retroactively bench Oh and lower our benchmark.

#782: I should have clarified that by saying when Werth is healthy, since Perez has been a better hitter so far this season. I expect Werth to be about a .825 OPS hitter, whereas I expect Perez to be around a .750 OPS hitter based on his lack of homerun power.

Yeah, I love Antonio Perez but his bat fits better into a scenario where he is a middle infielder. However, I would way rather see him in the lineup this year than valentin.

#786: Absolutely. Even .750 is a lot better than .603 (Valentin), .627 (Izturis), or .671 (Phillips). I have no idea what is wrong with Valentin. I expected much better from him coming into the season, especially against RHP.

Okay folks, here's the real test:

Would you rather have Izturis or Valentin as your shortstop?

No fair taking Robles or Perez or Offerman instead.

782 - I'm not sure if I'm being naive, but I have a fair amount of faith in Werth's hitting.

I'm more skeptical of Perez's ability to keep hitting over an extended period of time. I'd rather try a 1-year 3B rental or something.

I wonder if the Dodgers would consider playing Kent at third next year. Supposedly his signing was in some part to add defensive flexibility.

Somebody had better make sure that Milton is ok with playing centre field.

http://tinyurl.com/83cns

788 - Valentin. At least to give him a shot. Except for this year, he's always had enough power and discipline to offset his low BA.

788 -- That's a trick question!

#788: I'll take Izturis, who has youth on his side.

I know everyone on this site hates izturis but i'm not ready to give up on him yet. He's young. I think he's capable of hitting .300 and learning to be more patient at the plate. When he was injured Robles and Perez screwed up so many innings because they weren't able to get rid of the ball or turn two with izzy's quickness.

788 My sources tell me Choi plays a mean shortstop...

796 - HA!!

This just in: Milton Bradley volunteers Jeff Kent to sub for Hunter S. Thompson.

788 - jeff weaver or lil pudge

798 - Oops. Too late now:

http://tinyurl.com/7ad57

Is anyone else listening to the Jacksonville Suns Game? It's the 12th inning and the bases are loaded for the Suns.

Is anyone else listening to the Jacksonville Suns Game? It's the 12th inning and the bases are loaded for the Suns.

You guys picking Choi, Weaver, and Lil Pudge are cheating.

Might as well choose A-Rod if you're going to be that way.

801, 802 - Double posting to set a new record is akin to steroid use.

Free Agents to look at in offseason
AJ Burnett- Guy has been healthy this year and been pretty dominant. His K/BB is great, he has a low era, and he does not give up HRs which is one thing that Dodger Stadium does not suppress. He is young and could be a fixture to go with Penny and our minor leaguers for years to come.
Brian Giles- We all know what he can do and his numbers would improve a lot in Dodger Stadium. Give him a two or three year deal.
Hideki Matsui- His contract stipulates that he must have a new contract by Novemeber 15 or else he must be put on waivers to get his release and become a free agent. We all know his talent. He will be more expensive than Giles, but he will be here longer and give us better production. An All-Star quality player.
Nomar Garciaparra- If we can get him to play third we might be able to get him cheap on a short term deal so he can proove himself again or have Aybar take over at third till LaRoche is ready. Let Perez play shortstop his original position in baseball.

803 - whats wrong with weaver? he has as many at bats as Choi by now...

For anybody who might have wondered what DePodesta was willing to give up for Matt Lawton at the trade deadline, I just read an article that states what DePodesta offered the Pirates. DePodesta offered three prospects whose stars have faded considerably: Joel Hanrahan, Jonathan Figueroa, and Cody Ross.

#795: Hitting .300 seems a little optimistic. My guess is that last year's performance is his ceiling (.288/.330/.381), but he could OPS close to .700 again. This year's performance is much more in line with his prior career performance than last year's.

2002: .556 OPS at 22 years old
2003: .597 OPS at 23 years old
2004: .711 OPS at 24 years old
2005: .626 OPS at 25 years old

Sorry for the double post.

Do we really know that Bradley had a dust up with Kent? Playing for a plaque...could it also be Drew perhaps?

Jon Weber and Nick Alvarez failed to drive in the go-ahead run with the bases-loaded.

#801: I'm still listening. The Suns just stranded everybody and are heading into the bottom of the 12th. Time to start warming up the mascot.

810: The timing wouldn't seem to make sense if it were Drew. Drew is home pretending to be getting himself ready to return to the lineup in September. Why would Bradley need an emergency meeting to talk about Drew?

Kent is by far the most likely suspect.

810 - Highly unlikely, Kayaker7.

808 Yeah, I agree. I think I read in Moneyball, that free swinging players rarely develop the ability to take walks later in their careers. Tom Goodwin is a good example.

Jon Weber is pitching!!! ROTFLMAO

#810: If he said "playing in a cast" I would have picked Drew. I think the plaque is a pretty clear Kent reference.

I think we all have a pretty good idea of what Plashke's next article will cover.

#807: Where did you see the article, Canuck? I had heard a similar offer floating around the rumor mill prior to the deadline but it didn't seem to have much weight behind it.

Jon Weber walked the leadoff hitter.

I think the plaque is a pretty clear Kent reference.

Are you trying to say that Jason Phillips is not on his way to Cooperstown?

Hmmm...okay, if it is Kent, I'm conflicted. I've always sided with him in the SF dugout conflict, because I hated Bonds so much. But now, I like Bradley a lot. Maybe Kent gave Bradley a tongue lashing, like he did to his hand slappin' salute partner Hee Seop, but Milton did not take it meekly like Choi did. This sort of thing would be juicy gossip if the team were winning a lot. With the team losing so much, it is just sad.

Fearing Blue, the article is a pay article at LADugout.com.

Any chances Tracy abandons the Phillips at 1B fiasco with the recent winning streak the Dodgers have in games that either Choi or Saenz start in and Phillips doesn't.
vr, Xei

LoDuca would have totally intervened and kept this Bradley/Mystery Plaque Chaser fiasco from happening.

#822: But perhaps it will be more fodder for the FJT movement. Clubhouse dissension rarely plays out well in the media.

824 - With two lefties coming up, I expect tomorrow we'll see Phillips behind the plate and Saenz at first... and on Monday Phillips'll be at first and Navarro back at catcher. And, of course, Izturis back at SS with Robles at third.

So today -- unfortunately -- will be an anomoly.

Perhaps we're reading this whole thing wrong. It hasn't been specified just what type of plaque we're talking about.

This whole argument could be about dental hygiene.

The Suns loose 8-7 on a wild pitch by Jon Weber.

So today -- unfortunately -- will be an anomoly.

So true, right down to the fact that LA won today's game.

826- I think the 'DePo has no respect for team chemistry' story line is pretty well entrenched. This is one more thing that's going to be his fault.

818 Oh, what the hey... let's take a shot at this.

"A computer will tell you Milton Bradley is a productive player.

A computer will tell you that Jeff Kent is a Hall of Famer.

A computer won't tell you what is obvious to any human being who spends time around the game.

Putting Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent in the same clubhouse is like putting a virus into a PC.

Had the Dodgers kept some of the steadying influences from just last seasson--Paul LoDuca's heart, Steve Finley's leadership, Adrian Beltre's steady play--perhaps this wouldn't have happened.

Those were players that got along with each other.

Those were players that knew the time and place to have a beef with a teammate is not in the middle of a pennant race."

I expect something like this... when he gets back from vacation, that is.

Nice work, Suffering Bill.

That was good.

I'm still facing this Hobson's choice between Valentin and Izturis at shortstop.I have to answer it before it ruins my vacation.

833 That's Suffering Sean, to you!

834 - Steve, look at it this way. Valentin will have to retire within the next 2-3 years, just in time for Guzman to take over.

Izturis has another 10-15 left in him.

Enjoy your vacation.

835 - LOL.

832 Ha ha. You have a future in writing. That was pretty good.

I have to go watch Once Upon a Time in the West now.

I bid you all farewell.

Good luck catching Oh.

I have to go put the boy to sleep. I'm still looking at another DT excursion--heaven knows if it'll actually work out--but it's good to be back in the DT den!!

Night all. Wave to Sadaharu as you pass...

840 - Nice to see you back, pal.

We just passed Choi's OPS. I think this thread passed Izturis's OPS in the third inning.

Thanks for "saving" my vacation, Icaros. The mere prospect of Izturis playing shortstop for a dozen years or more isn't exactly relaxing.

Choi's OPS is in the 840's?

820 now? Used the word "just" loosely.

665 No Dodger has faced Jason Vargas. The day Vargas made his AA debut, Navarro was in Vegas going 0-3. Vargas never faced Navarro in AAA because the Marlins don't send their top prospects to Albuquerque. [Evidence: Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, and recently Scott Olsen] And if I were Derek Lowe, I wouldn't consider the 9th spot in the batting order a relief. Vargas put up an OPS of 1.000 in over 250 PA as a Dirtbag last year. (A .532 SLG% is incredible considering the suppressing effects of Blair Field.)

Wow, I step out to watch the highlights and I'm 200 posts behind.

Fun with Choi:

Since the All-Star break: .313/.377/.479 (.856 OPS)
In the #2 slot: .325/.384/.719 (1.103 OPS)
Starting at 1B: .261/.338/.487 (.825 OPS)
Scoring position, 2 out: .276/.400/.483 (.883 OPS)

On those happy notes, I'm going to bed. Hopefully, I won't have any nightmares involving goggles.

I just looked at the posts that have multiplied by the hundreds since the game was over, what article was Bradley quoted in-would love to read it

Louis -- see comment 791. That's the Canadian version, but it will do.

Refer post 734, Louis.

It looks like the AP has picked up the Bradley story. Maybe this will get the Dodgers some of that sweet, sweet ESPN coverage. I bet the Around the Horn guys will have clever thoughts, and important theories about it.

832 Nice work, Suffering Bruin.

Indeed.

I bet the Around the Horn guys will have clever thoughts, and important theories about it.

When did they start inviting Dennis Mountjoy on Around the Horn?

19 more, guys. We can make it.

#853: Countdown posts are cheating :).

This is on the Dodgers.com home page.

The Dodgers erased three deficits to sink the Marlins on Saturday, but all the talk afterward focused on a heated exchange between Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent. The incident overshadowed ex-Marlin Hee Seop-Choi's big day in Los Angeles' 11-6 win.

The LA Times fingers Jeff Kent specifically.

May have to go way off topic, Eric. See you're a fan of `Lone Star'. Watched `The Milagro Beanfield War' today...for some reason that always reminded me of a John Sayles movie.

Did any of you catch the SCSR tonight? Their take on the Milton Bradley post-game meeting was pretty funny. Gubizca was saying that Milton was obviously talking about Kent and then he went on and on about chemistry. Lindsay Soto interrupted and said something like, "Just to make it clear, Milton never said that he was talking about Jeff Kent." Then her next sentence was something like, "He was obviously talking about Jeff Kent."

852 My bad; I get him confused with Woody Paige. But, if he were to appear. . .

Max Wotssname-- Buy or sell: California Assembly Democrats don't love America. Mountjoy first.

The Hon. Dick Mountjoy-- "That love still beats strong in my heart – and in the hearts of the American people – but it is strangely absent among many that serve with me in the State Assembly. . .

"Now, with our nation at war, is the time for all Americans to proclaim our love of country. If not now, when?"

http://tinyurl.com/c56pq

In an effort to prompt this thread's sixth wind, by how many games will the Dodgers trail San Diego after our series against the Rockies? Keep in mind the Padres will be playing the Astros.

I say 2...

Dennis. Not Dick. Honestly, I wasn't trying to circumvent Jon's no swearing policy.

855 "The incident overshadowed ex-Marlin Hee Seop-Choi's big day in Los Angeles' 11-6 win"

Of course, whatever it takes. I'm almost convinced this is all a plot by Tracy and Plashcke to keep Choi out of the headlines. This will just be another over-hyped sports celebrity feud, and in the end, they'll all have their money and shut up

I emailed the LA Times immediately when I read the story.

Yes, in Tim Brown's baseball column, he misspelled the name of Jason Christiansen.

860 - For some reason, the Rockies seem to always play us tough. I'll be quasi-pessimistic and say 4 games.

Checking in late and it took me forever to read all the posts. Guess the game not being on TV had a lot to do with the number of posts.

Is there any possibility that Tracy will start Choi tomorrow? I think this Lefty/Righty is overrated and when a hitter is hot it doesn't matter as much whether it's lefty or righty.

864 I would lose hope for the season if we can only manage to makeup 1 game in the standings after a series against the Rockies; but we have six left against the Padres and three for the final series to keep me on pins and needles for the next 40.

Also, Tracy should stop tinkering with the lineup so much especially when a lineup like today performed so well. No wonder we are so inconsistent this year.

860 I'm going to say we go 3-2 by the end of that series. The Padres don't have much of a chance tomorrow (although I said the same thing when we faced Smoltz). They won't have to face Pettitte, and they could easily go 1-2. Thus we would be 3.5 back. 2.5 back if we're lucky, 1.5 if the stars are aligned correctly

868. Isn't that getting ahead of ourselves. Tracy said we only have to make up 1 game a week.

ddger, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's not about any particular lineup so much as it is the pitching we are facing on any given day.

866, 868 - And where do the D-backs fit into this scenario? :)

869 Is that an excuse for not playing the best players on the team?

Looks like Jon picked the wrong day to get some quality family time.

If he were considerate of our needs, he never would have had a family.

I just read the article in the LA Times, it mentions that Bradley did not score on a double by Kent. Does anybody know if he should have? The bizzare thing about this story living in SF when there was the constand Barry Kent feud while they didn't care for each other there lack of relationship had little impact on the team's performance. Kent this year has played his ass off for the Dodgers and while Bradley has been injured he has been a key compnent for the Dodgers-I hope it blows over. There is no reason they should be fighting.

870. Jim, you're right. But still Tracy does change the lineup too frequently and it seems to effect the performances of those players that are constantly being rotated back and forth. Don't most players feel more prepared and comfortable when they know who will play what position on which day.

Well, the lineup was realy shook up today, and they did just fine.

"he never would have had a family."

And if the Army wanted you to have a wife, soldier, it would have issued you one.

869- Yes, but we're likely to lose ground by the end of the week, when it will be San Diego's turn to beat on Colorado and our turn to host Houston. If I'm reading the schedule right it looks like the Astros will be able to use their off day Thursday to skip whoever their fifth starter is and throw Clemens, Oswalt, and Pettitte against us next weekend. So we definitely need to gain a game or two in the next few days if we want to stay in this.

Missing `l' penalty: two points.

But I bet tomorrow, Tracy will come up with another strange lineup.

Actually Kent probably won't start tomorrow.

873
Since there was no TV of this game and what footage there is probably won't have enough angles to show everything, it's going to be Bradley's word against Kent's.

It's all part of a massive conspiracy to keep us in the dark!

My company couldn't stay awake for the movie (old people are worthless), so I'm here to help break the record.

Didn't Bradley eventually score anyway? And what's all this "only black guy" stuff?

Do I really have to be reminded of Delino Deshields again? Let me die in peace.

Not to side with Kent or anything, but Bradley does seem to be running a lot slower since he came back from the injury, whether it be running for a ball in the gap or not scoring on a double. Obviously there's more to this than just one play, but I hope Kent and Bradley can learn to co-exist and not cause anymore distractions.

I remember Kent and Bradley getting along really well earlier in the year.

They were like Mel Gibson and Danny Glover.

Someone should program the Stevie Wonder/Paul McCartney duet into their iPods so they can live together in perfect harmony once again.

The one time the Dodgers avoid running out of an inning, and it turns into the nightmare scenario. Expect the windmill to go back on to avoid further problems in the future.

And what's all this "only black guy" stuff?

Really don't have much to go on here, but judging by the Bradley quotes, he's overreacting to some criticism by Kent. He's feeling sorry for himself.

Could it be that Bradley's having problems due to Kent kinda taking on a Leadership role in the clubhouse while he was gone? Some of Miltons statements reminded me of cuba gooding Jr in Jerry Mcguire,

Show me the Money Jerry.

I don't think so, Yakface. I think Bradley was made emotional over a specific incident.

873 Kent this year has played his ass off for the Dodgers

Kent has played his ass off for Kent. I really don't think Kent cares about winning or the playoffs or anything other than his own numbers. This might bother some people. I don't care what his motivation is as long as he keeps playing his ass off. I don't know if Bradley could of scored on Kent's double. I would think that's the third base coach's call. I do think it's a bit lame to call Milton out in that situation, especially since the team just tied the game. Kent plays his game, he should let the other players play theirs. But Kent is all about getting his RBI. If it had been any other player hitting the double I don't think Kent would have said a thing. But in his eyes Bradley cost him an RBI. But he needs to accept that the rest of the team is there to win, not to prop up Jeff Kent's numbers.

Expect the windmill to go back on to avoid further problems in the future.

Are you looking forward to watching starting first baseman Jason Phillips attempt to score from second on a Jason Repko bunt single tomorrow?

I know I am.

Disagree with that, Langhorne. If Kent was only concerned about his numbers, why would he have jumped all over Hee Seop Choi and Jason Phillips in earlier incidents? A player only concerned with his numbers wouldn't have done that.

But Kent is all about getting his RBI.

See, if people wouldn't overrate RBI we wouldn't have these problems.

891 - When did he jump on Phillips? I thought that was our job.

How about a Solomonic Solution?

We cut Izturis in half, and give Kent and Bradley the pieces.

893 - IIRC, he gave Phillips some dugout schooling on playing first base a couple of weeks ago.

895 - See, nobody should ever be talking to Phillips about playing first because he should never be there.

Tracy is killing the chemistry of this fine ballclub!

I'm certain that Phillips will play tomorrow, but he will be catching.

And we'll likely see Bradley batting third and Kent fourth.

How long have baseball players been hating their teammates? 1833?

We statheads might not value chemistry, but clearly these kinds of clubhouse fights can't help the team success.

We need to make them more productive. How about Kent starts a fight with Tracy for putting OBP's like Izturis' and Rekpko's ahead of him in the lineup? Think of how many RBI's that has cost him!

Did anyone even speak to Mr. Oh as they passed him? NO!

891 I remember that game in San Diego when he was called out at third by the umpire and kicked out the game. You could totally read his lips "This is a big game!" To me that didn't seem like the actions of a guy who only cared about his numbers.

Did anyone even speak to Mr. Oh as they passed him? NO!

He and I don't speak the same language, so we just exchanged a quick and silent bow.

Don't know about chemistry, but there are some players I would just rather not see in a Dodger uniform. On the current team Weaver is #1 for me and probably Jeff Kent #2. I would not want to see Barry Bonds in a Dodger uniform regardless of his OBP or OPS.

Stan in Tacoma

I don't know, Stan...the chemistry between Weaver and Bradley seems pretty good. Of course it usually comes in a bong...

902. I hate Bonds, But I also hate losing. I'd take Bonds in left field over any other left fielder.

The great Dodger teams of the 1970s wouldn't solve these problems with closed door meetings.

They'd just beat each other up! And we liked it that way!

I could see Kent as a model in one of those old Tarrington `I'd rather fight than switch' ads, Bob.

Daily News story isn't much different from the Times.

http://tinyurl.com/ce358

More importantly, the LA Times has fixed the typo of Jason Christiansen's name in the online edition of Tim Brown's column.

I can now go to sleep at peace with the world.

#904, no way. I don't expect to like every player on the Dodgers, but I would rather root for players I like to succeeed than watch Bonds drive in runs to help the Dodgers win. Went through that 15 years ago when Strawberry signed with LA, though as it turned out he did not drive in many runs nor did the Dodgers win. Truly, winning isn't everything.

Stan from Tacoma

They'd just beat each other up! And we liked it that way!

And you'd only hear them play on the radio and read about their fights in newspapers made of real paper! the next morning!

That was actually a pretty chickens*#& swipe at Kent.

Have fun reading through all of these posts, Jon, wherever you are.

910

In fact, I did read about the Garvey-Sutton fight in the newspaper. That's where I heard about it first. I believe the incident took place in New York.

Ahh, let me tell you what life was like back in the 1970s. Back then, men and women dressed in gaudy colored polyester pants. And we all watched "All in the Family", "Sanford and Son", and "The Rockford Files".

The Dodgers went to the World Series THREE times and we hated a Mike Marshall with a mustache instead of one without a mustache!

Not all of us wore polyester pants. And many thought that the Disco Sucks record burning was the high cultural event of the decade :)

913 - I have very fuzzy, technicolor memories of the late 70s.

I remember getting in trouble in pre-school a few times for calling some of the other children bastards.

They were probably Giants fans.

The one thing I do like about Kent is that he was willing to stand up to Bonds. I still have trouble with seeing him on the Dodgers though. I am old enough to remember Juan Marichal with the Dodgers. Some things are just not right.

Stan from Tacoma

I remember getting in trouble in pre-school a few times for calling some of the other children bastards.

I guess that's what they mean by precocious, huh, Icaros?

Bob, are you refering to the Mike Marshall who pitched for the Dodgers. At the time I thought he was ok, though I have changed my mind since.

Stan from Tacoma

I got home about an hour ago. Because the game was not on TV, I assumed there would be about 200 posts tonight. Good thing I didn't take the under. You guys have out done yourselves. I started reading them and could only get through about 400ish. (Couldn't take anymore "Why isn't the game on TV";-)
Looks like I missed a good game and good discussion.

I guess that's what they mean by precocious, huh, Icaros?

I've always been a very expressive young man.

(Couldn't take anymore "Why isn't the game on TV";-)

What channel was the game on, anyway? I couldn't find it.

I was just thinking, where the heck has LAT been all day...?

Does the KNBR signal reach LA? The Giants do a midnight replay of the game from the preceeding day. I always like to listen in on a guaranteed Giant loss. KNBR is 680 on the AM dial by the way.

Stan from Tacoma

923 - Due to the electromagnetic shield protecting L.A., KNBR does not reach :)

Glad to know LA is safe. You might think of lowering the shield at midnight when you know the Giants have lost.

Stan from Tacoma

By the way, it is 1-0 Cardinals in the 3rd inning.

Stan from Tacoma

916 I have never had a problem with Jeff Kent even when he was knocking the Dodgers around. He seems to be a guy who enjoys the game and plays it the right way. On the other hand, Milton rubs me the wrong way in a lot of situations, especially with a runner on third and less than two outs. If we had better options in the OF in the minors or through free agency I would like to give him the boot but as is we need him on this team right now and in the future.

For the first time in my life I saw two movies in one day. Four Brothers and 40 Year Old Virgin. Would have rather seen the Dodger game. Virgin is cute but does not as good as some of the reviews its gotten. Gets a C+ from me. Hell, some of the people here are funnier. Four Brothers was an unorginial movie which looks like it was shot in three weeks. C- or D+. So that's where I have been all day.

Very excited about EJ pitching Monday. Would really like to see him have a good outing and get some run support.

Why is MB playing the race card? "As long as I'm black, I'm fine," Bradley said. Did Kent call him some sort of name?

928 I'm gonna see the 40 Yr. Old Virgin tomorrow, hopefully it will meet my sense of humor better than yours.

I have a feeling Milton's a bit more uncomfortable around Kent because of his feud with Bonds. While one could link these as racial issues, it's more logical to break it down as him taking issue with ill-tempered players who don't always give full effort.

I think the SCSR is in on the conspiracy to hold down Choi, right now when they showed the highlights the graphic had him as going 3-5.

No, I'm sure he didn't. I think it's just a case of Bradley getting overemotional about criticism and feeling sorry for himself.

Man, I'm old enough to remember when they always showed two movies together. Plus Road Runner cartoons! At Drive-ins!

I kinda feel sorry that kids don't have drive-ins to take their gorlfriends to anymore.

929. I enjoyed the movie and it was not over-the-top like Wedding Crashers (which I thought was funnier and stupider--in my sense of humor those usally go together.) I was expecting more given the good reveiws.

I wouldn't think race had anything to do with it until MB brought it up. It doesn't really matter. Lots of people on lots of teams don't get along. It just we fans who like to think are players are one big happy family.

"It just we fans who like to think are players are one big happy family"

Let's try that one again: Its just we fans who like to think our players are one big happy family."

Not only do they no longer show movies at drive-ins, they are not even used for swap meets anymore. With the price of real estate. . .better, more efficent use. Yada, yada, yada.

Well LAT, to alleviate your fears a little bit, there is a drive-in movie theater in my hometown of Visalia that still shows 2 movies for like $5, unfortunately they don't use it as a swap meet during downtime :)

Bradley's comments about Tracy were really nice. I forget that the bad manager could actually be a good person.

Note to Jon: There will be a pop quiz on the comments tomorrow.

bradley needs another homie on the team... yo edwin, stop sucking it up and pitch well enough to stay on the big league club.

I've got Bradley's back. And I agree that the team can exist with these guys at each other's throats. That's called "creative tension". Tracey needs to manage it though.