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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Edwards Recalled
2005-08-25 15:25
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tonight's Game

Mike Edwards has been recalled and Milton Bradley has officially been placed on the 15-day disabled list, according to the Dodger press notes.

Also from the notes: the Dodgers are tied with the New York Mets for the major league lead in pinch hits, with 49. Ricky Ledee's .435 average leads all individuals with 10 pinch at-bats or more.

Comments (496)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-25 15:31:26
1.   Monterey Chris
Where do you get the Dodgers press notes?
2005-08-25 15:32:34
2.   Jon Weisman
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/presspass/index.jsp
2005-08-25 15:37:12
3.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

August 25, 1891

There have been bad days in Dodger history. But this day was one of the worst. It may have indeed been the worst. When the dust cleared at South Side Park, Chicago (which wouldn't be a North Side fixture until the 20th Century) had defeated Brooklyn by a score of 28-5. The 28 runs allowed remain the largest number ever given up by a Dodgers team. The loss dropped fifth Brooklyn to 46-52 and 15 ½ games behind first place Chicago.

Chicago scored 6 runs in the first, 2 runs in the second, 4 runs in the fifth, 5 runs in the sixth, 6 runs in the seventh, and 5 runs in the ninth. Chicago had opted to bat first as home teams sometimes did in the 19th century.

George Hemming was the starter for Brooklyn and he was left in by player-manager Monte Ward to give up all 28 runs, but only 13 of the runs were earned. Chicago had 27 hits, including three home runs, two doubles, and four triples. Hemming walked 6 batters and Brooklyn committed 10 errors.

While 28 runs allowed by Hemming is a Dodgers franchise record, the major league single game record is actually 35 runs allowed by Dave Rowe of Cleveland in 1882. Rowe, however, was an outfielder filling in at pitcher. Hemming was a regular member of Brooklyn's staff. He went 8-15 with a 4.96 ERA in 1891. He would pitch eight years in the majors and was nicknamed "Old Wax Figger" according to Baseball-Reference.com.

One year after a National League pennant in 1890, Brooklyn slid all the way to sixth place at 61-76 and 25 ½ games behind Boston. This was despite the addition of Ward, one of the 19th century's greatest stars. Ward replaced Bill McGunnigle, who had won two consecutive pennants in Brooklyn. It wasn't a case of McGunnigle being a bad manager, but rather a case that Ward, the leader of the now defunct Players League had to be given a new job in a position commensurate to his old one, which was player manager of the Brooklyn Players League team.

Brooklyn's offensive production declined in 1891. The team had scored 885 runs in 1890, but just 765 in 1891. And the pitching staff gave up 200 more runs in 1891 than 1890.

Right fielder Oyster Burns was the leading hitter for Brooklyn, batting .285. Dave Foutz and Darby O'Brien, the hitting stars of 1890 slumped in 1891, probably because the demise of the Players League brought better pitchers back into the National League.

Tom Lovett led the team with a 23-19 record. Bob Caruthers went 18-14, but all the other pitchers had losing records. Adonis Terry, 26-16 in 1890, was just 6-16 in 1891.

1892 would bring more changes to baseball. The American Association would fold and the National League would expand to 12 teams. The Dodgers would improve, but the team in Boston was not going to give up the top spot for a while.

Thanks to the Chicago Tribune, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

2005-08-25 15:40:42
4.   Marty
Oyster Burns!
2005-08-25 15:43:37
5.   King of the Hobos
Cook vs Penny tonight, shouldn't be too hard. Izzy, Cruz, Kent, and Dreifort all hit Cook well, combining for .345/.457/.643 in 29 AB. However, only 2 of those players are available. Izzy, inexplicably, has 3 walks vs Cook to lead the team
2005-08-25 15:43:40
6.   Bob Timmermann
Oyster (not his real name) got his start in the majors playing for the worst team ever, the 1884 Wilmington Quicksteps of the Union Association.

They went 2-16 before folding.

2005-08-25 15:45:10
7.   Marty
I wonder how he got his nickname. Also, they had Adonis Terry. Nobody names their kid Adonis anymore.
2005-08-25 15:46:34
8.   Bob Timmermann
Adonis Terry's real name was William. Presumably he was a good looking guy.

Oyster Burns was from Philadelphia, which last time I checked, isn't where one goes for oysters. His given name was Thomas.

2005-08-25 15:46:35
9.   King of the Hobos
As for the Rockies vs Penny:

Helton .346/.393/.615 in 26 ABs
Rest .277/.320/.298 in 47 ABs

2005-08-25 15:47:15
10.   Marty
Wilmington Quicksteps. What a great name. Like the Oregon Webfoots
2005-08-25 15:52:16
11.   gvette
7 NOBODY NAMES THEIR KID ADONIS ANYMORE

Well, there was Apollo Creed.

Don't see to many ballplayers named after food anymore either. No more guys nicknamed Cookie, Pie etc.

2005-08-25 15:52:30
12.   Bob Timmermann
A Google search turned up a site that claimed that Oyster got his nickname because he would shell seafood in the offseason.

There is no truth to the story that Oyster was no good in months that didn't have an R in them.

2005-08-25 15:57:04
13.   Jon Weisman
Funny, as Morning Briefing pointed out, this is also the anniversary of the 26-23 Cubs-Phillies game from '22.
2005-08-25 15:58:05
14.   Jon Weisman
11 - Reuben?
2005-08-25 16:02:50
15.   HomeDePo
so are we all in acceptance now that there is no way the dodgers can sweep this series or the next?
2005-08-25 16:02:56
16.   Marty
Weaver's nickname should be Doodles.
2005-08-25 16:03:12
17.   Nagman
I seem to remember an Adonis in college basketball in recent years but I don't remember a last name or a team.
2005-08-25 16:03:27
18.   Marty
15. There's absolutely no way they can sweep this series.
2005-08-25 16:05:57
19.   Jon Weisman
17 - Adonis Jordan, who played in the NBA and for Cleveland High School in the Valley.
2005-08-25 16:08:29
20.   HomeDePo
18 - just stating the obvious
2005-08-25 16:13:35
21.   Suffering Bruin
I was the radio play-by-play man for that game, Jon. Don McLean led Simi Valley to a win over the Jordan-led, Bob Braswell-coached Cleveland High team. Great game.

I just saw myself on television from last night's game. Wow... I had no idea I had so little hair! And man, do I need to get in shape! And man, is it a blast to see yourself on television! I mean, that's fun...

2005-08-25 16:18:23
22.   Suffering Bruin
By the by, did anybody catch ESPN News following up on the Penny/ballboy/milkpuke story? The ballboy has been suspended for six games. Penny is reportedly outraged.
2005-08-25 16:18:27
23.   Marty
20. I completely mis-read your earlier post. Thought you were asking if anynoe thought they could sweep this series.
2005-08-25 16:18:44
24.   Steelyeri
21 You're right. My wife and I sat in the fronr row near first base once. I couldn't stop laughing the next day while watching the replay. I was caught off guard. I couldn't beleive we were in the picture when the camera would cut to the runner on first. It was pretty cool.
2005-08-25 16:19:16
25.   Jon Weisman
21 - I started covering high school sports for the Daily News about 18 months after that.
2005-08-25 16:22:50
26.   Bob Timmermann
Jon hasn't told us the names of his kids, but they are actually named Venus and Adonis, according to Joe McDonnell and Rotoworld.
2005-08-25 16:23:01
27.   dzzrtRatt
Spicoli probably thinks we can still sweep this series. All we have to do is go back in time, man.
2005-08-25 16:26:02
28.   sactofan
22 - Penny said it was ridiculous to receive a 6 game suspension for milk and a 10 game suspension for steroids. Is it really that hard to drink a gallon of milk in an hour? Must not have been skim.

http://tinyurl.com/csqcs

2005-08-25 16:26:13
29.   Bob Timmermann
25

I've actually outlasted Jon on the Daily News high school beat.

But it helps that I don't have anything better to do on Friday nights in the fall.

2005-08-25 16:27:14
30.   Suffering Bruin
Well, if Joe McDonnell said it, it must be true...

As boorish as McDonnell can be, I met the guy twice over a decade ago and both times he couldn't have been nicer. Still, there were guys back then in the media who thought he was poison. I prefer to go with my own experience but there are times I listen to his show and wonder whether that's a human being talking or someone just putting on a show.

2005-08-25 16:27:50
31.   Bob Timmermann
28
Don't try this at home!

It's hard to get all that fluid in your stomach. And then it's hard for all of it to stay there. And there's a fair amount of fat and sugar and acid for you to digest.

2005-08-25 16:30:26
32.   FirstMohican
28 - I've never heard of that bet w/ just plain milk, only with chocolate milk.

If I was offered a grand, I'd try it.

2005-08-25 16:31:17
33.   Suffering Bruin
31 Someone posted yesterday saying it was a fools bet, that it's impossible to drink a gallon of milk without throwing up.

I'm frankly losing my appetitite just thinking of it. I should've thought of that before being caught on television carrying enough calories to make an offensive lineman blush.

2005-08-25 16:31:19
34.   Jon Weisman
30 - Joe was nice to me as well. I just wouldn't trust an unnamed source on a decision that won't be official for months.
2005-08-25 16:33:46
35.   FirstMohican
33 I'd try it. In fact, next time I go to the store I'm going to try it with a half gallon. If there are no more FirstMohican posts after tonight, dont let anyone else try it. 40
2005-08-25 16:36:04
36.   Suffering Bruin
34 Nicest guy I ever met in the field--and I met some very nice people for the most part--was Vic "the Brick" Jacobs. I don't know what he's like now but back then he was a helluva guy. Most of the guys were really nice, to be honest.
2005-08-25 16:37:17
37.   Suffering Bruin
35 I just had a bowl of cereal for lunch and I feel sick already. I'm sure it has nothing to do with this conversation! :)

Seriously, good luck, stay in good health... and let us know how it turns out. Pardon the phrase...

2005-08-25 16:42:32
38.   Howard Fox
I can see we are going to milk this for all its worth.
2005-08-25 16:44:14
39.   Steelyeri
Speaking of Joe McDonnell, he was on the Mason and Ireland show today. He said that he was talking to some people from the Dodgers and they told him that ownership is fed up with Bradley. He said that he won't play for the Dodgers next season (or this season if he doesn't have surgery. I hope this isn't true. Bradley is my favorite dodger. BTW Jon, nice post today. I don't know what it is about him, but Bradley has tons of charisma. He seems to have the ability to pull you in.
2005-08-25 16:45:37
40.   Steelyeri
Sorry, I forgot to close () after "my favorite dodger."
2005-08-25 16:46:49
41.   Suffering Bruin
39 I'm going to take McDonnell's report with a considerable grain of salt.

It is interesting to note that Bradley might've been suspended if he wasn't hurt. He was told not to talk to the media by the man he considered a second father--and he did it anyway.

I like Milton and I'm not wild about Tracy. But that ain't cool.

2005-08-25 16:49:12
42.   Steelyeri
41 Grain of salt, I agree.
2005-08-25 16:49:55
43.   Howard Fox
39 I too am a Bradley supporter.

However, who's to say when the next issue arises. Let's say they aren't as bad next year as this year and they make the playoffs. What is the likelihood of him going off during the playoffs? If stress or pressure or whatever is the catalyst for him, might he disrupt the team yet again?

2005-08-25 16:54:40
44.   natepurcell
so can we have suns thoughts today? orenduff is going on the mound. game stats at 505.

laroches numbers are quite solid now:
284/379/492

he might be ready by july next year.

2005-08-25 16:56:18
45.   dzzrtRatt
Re Joe Mcdonnell and whether he's a nice guy or not; reminds me of the old Newhart when some nice woman is getting ready to interview him on TV, and is very sweet, encouraging Newhart to relax about the interview. When the show starts, she suddenly turns nasty, takes him apart, and forces him to admit that his career is a sham.

Lesson: It doesn't matter if Joe McDonnell is a nice guy off-mike. He's a one-sided Dodger basher on-air, and, worse, he has a transparent double standard when it comes to the Angels, who of course pay part of his salary. I can't believe he's now the senior local radio sports guy in town, "the show of record" as he likes to brag. Ugh.

2005-08-25 16:57:05
46.   Jon Weisman
43 - That's why I'm doubly disappointed by the injury. I'd rather see the rift dealt with now, however traumatic it is, and see Bradley gain peace with it, rather than bury the rift or just cut loose Bradley because of it. I think Bradley really does have growth potential, but isolation isn't going to help.

Maybe this kind of hope is how abused spouses stay inexplicably in their marriages.

2005-08-25 17:00:53
47.   Jon Weisman
44 - do you mean ready to be replacement level? (Sincere question, not snide)
2005-08-25 17:03:17
48.   Monterey Chris
41

I agree. The impression I got was that the command to stop talking to the press was a McCourt/DePo/Tracy demand and that Tracy was helping guide him through that. He then went directly to the press. There are not a lot of places where you keep your job after doing something like that. And that saddens me because I too like Bradley.

2005-08-25 17:03:38
49.   natepurcell
well, not necessarily. i mean, look at navarro and his current production, and he wasnt even a top 10 prospect. Laroche is rated higher and has better offensive skills. so its possible we could see navarro like production but better power.

maybe a 160ish ISOp

2005-08-25 17:04:33
50.   natepurcell
by 160, i mean 190, 160 would be the least i would expect.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-25 17:05:23
51.   natepurcell
good news, abreu is playing today, so i guess his ankle or knee or whatever it was, is okay now.
2005-08-25 17:08:19
52.   dzzrtRatt
Jon...I would vehemently disagree that your relationship with Milton Bradley is like a dysfunctional marriage!

I think Bradley is an unusual case among athletes. He's no dummy. He's perceptive to the point of being over-sensitive. I think there's no question he's going to grow as a human being, and as he does so, he's going to probably get better as a player, and a positive force in whatever community he ends up in.

The parallel with Bradley for me is Bill Lee. Except Bradley isn't as humorous; he's more earnest.

Jeff Kent on the other hand is well-known, extensively documented, as a tool. He's not someone I'd want as a friend. But he's a great player, and that makes him tolerable so long as you don't expect too much from him. I think Bradley is one of those who expected more from Kent as a person than Kent is capable of delivering, and for some reason it's gotten his goat. For Bradley to survive in baseball he will have to learn to take his teammates as they come, and realize that some of them are permanently thickheaded. Bill Lee didn't figure that out and his career suffered.

2005-08-25 17:10:26
53.   Howard Fox
I'll never forget that eaphus pitch
2005-08-25 17:10:33
54.   Jon Weisman
52 - I hear you.
2005-08-25 17:11:50
55.   natepurcell
yess laroche walked, i love seeing him walk. his walk rate has improved considerbly going from high A to AA.
2005-08-25 17:12:55
56.   natepurcell
loney!!! double, hits the base of the wall in the deepest part in left center, about 400 feet.
2005-08-25 17:14:22
57.   808Bears
LLWS update for those of us stuck at work without tv?
2005-08-25 17:14:25
58.   natepurcell
dang, ruggiano single up the middle, loney scores, 3-0 lead already lol.
2005-08-25 17:16:23
59.   dzzrtRatt
53 Actually, Bill Lee called it his "LEE-phus" pitch. The Eaphus pitch was by some great pitcher of a prior decade, and I cannot remember who it was. But Lee was throwing it as a tribute to him.

Lee was good at explaining baseball. Wouldn't it be interesting to find out if he's a Saber-man?

2005-08-25 17:16:48
60.   Howard Fox
52 I could see Kent being a better friend than Bradley, at least for my taste in people. I tend to prefer those who are straight shooters, who would tell me what needs to be told to me even if I may not necessarily want to hear it, who may also be content even if conversation may be lacking.

Bradley, while exhibiting many of these traits, also strikes me as someone who would fidget almost uncontrollably if no one was talking. And that would make me nervous.

2005-08-25 17:16:59
61.   Bob Timmermann
I have a co-worker who is keenly interested in the West O'ahu team from 'Ewa Beach. (I'm into the apostrophes.)

One of the players on the West O'ahu squad goes to Our Lady of Good Counsel school. Our Lady of Good Counsel should have come to Milton Bradley in a vision and given him some counsel before he started speaking.

2005-08-25 17:20:11
62.   Marty
Rip Sewell threw the Ephus pitch that Ted Williams hot for a homerun in an all-star game
2005-08-25 17:20:41
63.   Marty
Make that hit for a homerun
2005-08-25 17:20:48
64.   Icaros
Forgive my ignorance, but is this Abreu prospect any relation to Philadelphia's Bobby?
2005-08-25 17:21:51
65.   Icaros
Marty is hot for Ted Williams, who himself is very cold right now.
2005-08-25 17:22:21
66.   natepurcell
Forgive my ignorance, but is this Abreu prospect any relation to Philadelphia's Bobby?

nah.

2005-08-25 17:23:22
67.   gvette
Ironically, while baseball will give numerous chances to various wife beaters,drug offenders,and borderline sociopaths, the worst sin for any player appears to be nonconformity.

Just ask Bill Lee, Mike Marshall, and other square pegs, seemingly thrust into the proverbial round hole throughout their careers.

2005-08-25 17:24:36
68.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Morgan wrote about the L'Affaire Bradley et Kent today. It's ESPN Insider.

It's probably not worth paying extra for.

He blames both guys.

2005-08-25 17:24:43
69.   Icaros
66 Too bad. Thanks.
2005-08-25 17:25:04
70.   Howard Fox
68 that is because they are both Dodgers
2005-08-25 17:25:59
71.   Steelyeri
64- If i'm not mistaken,abbreu has two brothers. They are boh shortstops in the minors. I'm pretty sure they both play for the same organization.
2005-08-25 17:26:43
72.   Nagman
69 are you sure it's a bad thing, given the Wrong Brother Syndrome that the Dodgers suffer from. He has a chance...

(The jury is still out on Cesar vs Macier... I think we lose on the Valentins).

2005-08-25 17:27:43
73.   Icaros
21 Hey Bruin, you shouldn't put yourself down. When your image first popped onto the screen I remember thinking, "Hey, is that Johnny Depp at a Dodgers game?"
2005-08-25 17:28:35
74.   willhite
Milton -

From what I'm getting, Tracy would like to keep him, DePo is undecided and McCourt wants him gone. If I'm Milton, I start packing.

2005-08-25 17:28:57
75.   Icaros
72 We might have the better Drew.
2005-08-25 17:29:53
76.   Nagman
75 We'll see... Weaver as well?
2005-08-25 17:29:57
77.   Steelyeri
72 I think (hope) we got the right Laroche brother. That's about all the luck we've had. Although Ramon Martinez was my favorite Dodger growing up. He wasn't necessarily the 'wrong' brother as much as he was the 'non hall of famer' brother.
2005-08-25 17:31:34
78.   Icaros
77 Well, we had the HOF Martinez for a little while.
2005-08-25 17:32:23
79.   Icaros
76 The Angels will be really bummed if that turns out to be the case.
2005-08-25 17:32:42
80.   willhite
I'm guessing Weaver (the older one) signs with the Angels this winter. They could certainly use an inning-eater, he'll probably give them a little bit of a discount to stay at home and ultimately play with his brother, and I don't see them re-signing Washburn (who by the way, might look very nice in Dodger blue).
2005-08-25 17:33:07
81.   Icaros
74 Where are you getting this?
2005-08-25 17:35:02
82.   gvette
#68 Morgan's take should have been interesting. It wasn't that long ago that African American players like Frank Robinson or Richie Allen were viewed as "angry" or "difficult to manage", when in retrospect they merely requested to be treated with the same respect as their Anglo counterparts.

Time will tell whether Milton is merely misunderstood, like Frank Robinson was, or just crazy like Alex Johnson or Carl Everett.

2005-08-25 17:36:54
83.   Marty
firejoemorgan.com should have something to say about his latest article soon.
2005-08-25 17:37:50
84.   Icaros
82 Molokai has dibs on the Milton Bradley/Carl Everett parallel, from what I recall.
2005-08-25 17:38:12
85.   willhite
81 -

Lots of assumptions, starting with The Big Nasty stating that ownership is fed up with Milton.

Tracy considers him another son.

DePo brought him here so would be a little reluctant to get rid of him that quickly but if Frank wants him gone, he doesn't have any choice.

2005-08-25 17:38:16
86.   Marty
I don't think Milton is in the same ballpark as Alex Johnson. Johnson was nuts. I think Frank Robinson is crazy as a manager.
2005-08-25 17:40:45
87.   Icaros
85 Thanks. Could be the case, I guess.
2005-08-25 17:41:41
88.   Icaros
Too bad Anthony Perkins isn't still around to play the lead in The Milton Bradley Story.
2005-08-25 17:41:43
89.   Marty
I think the craziest athlete in my lifetime of watching sports was Duane Thomas of the Cowboys
2005-08-25 17:51:23
90.   willhite
If I'm correct that McCourt wants Milton gone and, therefore, he is gone, I would look for him to wind up in Washington. Exactly the kind of guy that Jim Bowden would sign, and just think of Milton playing for Frank Robinson. Now there's a mgr who would probably understand him and get the best out of him.
2005-08-25 17:53:55
91.   GoBears
Apparently, the milk-suspensed bat boy is going to be OK. You wouldn't think the Milk Board was going to let him suffer (more than he has already) did you?

http://tinyurl.com/9x86j

2005-08-25 17:54:06
92.   natepurcell
oh wow, what a bunch of cheaters. during laroches AB, the CFer was playing just shy of the warning track, laroches rockets it out to the warning track about 395+ feet away, and the cfer didnt even have to move to make the catch.
2005-08-25 17:54:05
93.   GoBears
oops - suspended
2005-08-25 17:54:50
94.   King of the Hobos
90 Jose Guillen and Milton Bradley on the same team...that would be fun. However, Bowden would drool over Bradley, think we could Patterson for him?
2005-08-25 17:55:31
95.   GoBears
If the Dodgers do let Bradley walk, if I were running the Giants, I'd grab him in a nanosecond. They need a young OFer who can get on base if Bonds ever comes back, and a guy who wants to destroy the Dodgers would only be icing on the cake. He'd be the toast of the town.
2005-08-25 17:56:11
96.   gvette
#89 Never saw him play, but supposedly Marvin Barnes of the old ABA was strong competition for Duane Thomas.

Must have been insane watching Duane Thomas trying to play for George Allen in Washington.

2005-08-25 17:56:12
97.   GoBears
Heck, for that matter, the Angels might use the same logic and grab him. Sure beats the cadaver wearing Finley's uni.
2005-08-25 17:57:28
98.   rageon
I see I missed the Brad Penny / gallon of milk conversation by about over an hour, but I'll chim in anyways. If I remember correctly, the first time I heard of it was on an episode of Jackass. I think they had a few people try it at once, and none of them made it. I also remember reading about it in a list of "stuff with food you probably should never try." Some magazine had a "competetive eater" try that sort of stuff to see if he could do it. Though I can't remember if he pulled it off or not. But I do remember another one of these feats as trying to eat a tablespoon of cinnamon all at once. The guy doing it basically says, "unless you want to know what choking to death feels like, don't bother trying to do it."
2005-08-25 17:58:22
99.   willhite
97 -

Based on what they did with Guillen, I don't think the Angels would race to get Milton, but he might be very happy in a place like SF.

2005-08-25 17:59:17
100.   rageon
And I think Milton will stay. He won't get too much in arbitration, probably about what he's making this season. And if he's a problem, he can probalby be traded mid-season for something worth more than the small amount spent on him.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-25 18:01:04
101.   willhite
100 -

I don't think it's going to be Milton's choice. If it is, I agree he'll stay.

2005-08-25 18:01:12
102.   King of the Hobos
Why would the Dodgers let Bradley walk? Even if we got rid of him, he has trade value. His health and anger may not make him super valuable, but trading him A) gets us something in return, and B)let's the Dodgers choose his immediate future.

I'm still not convinced he's gone though

2005-08-25 18:02:34
103.   rageon
100 I guess what I was trying to say didn't come out right. I realize it's not up to Milton. I meant that I doubt that the team will get rid of him. I just don't think you non-tender a guy with his talent. (see e.g. David Ortiz)
2005-08-25 18:09:56
104.   King of the Hobos
SS Robles
1B Choi
2B Kent
3B Saenz
CF Werth
LF Cruz
C Navarro
LF Valentin
P Penny

vs

2B Miles
CF Sullivan
1B Helton
LF Holliday
3B Atkins
RF Mohr
SS Quintanilla
C Ardoin
P Cook

2005-08-25 18:11:44
105.   Kayaker7
Dodgers' starting lineup.

Robles SS
Choi 1B
Kent 2B
Saenz 3B
Werth CF
Cruz RF
Navarro C
Valentin LF

What is up with the consistent lineups? ;-)

2005-08-25 18:12:17
106.   Kayaker7
104 Dang, you beat me. :(
2005-08-25 18:13:03
107.   sanchez101
105. I think/hope depodesta's laid down the law with tracy. My way or the highway. Then tracy will leave in the offseason.
2005-08-25 18:15:47
108.   willhite
105 -

When you only have 8 guys not on the DL it's easy to come up with the same lineup every night, although I bet he seriously considered starting Weaver in left field instead of Valentin.

2005-08-25 18:16:51
109.   natepurcell
that lineup isnt that bad.
2005-08-25 18:18:21
110.   dzzrtRatt
74
MEMORANDUM

TO: The McCourts
FR: Sitrick & Co.

Esteemed client,

Before you jump to conclusions about what to do with Milt Bradley, we need to do a focus group to determine the impact on the team's reputation in south central. $50K should cover it.

Luv ya,

Your PR firm

2005-08-25 18:19:34
111.   willhite
How long has it been since Choi and Valentin have homered?
2005-08-25 18:19:41
112.   King of the Hobos
108 I'd seriously consider it as well. Valentin has 5 more hits than Weaver, in 63 more ABs.

.291/.304/.327 vs .178/.336/.288

2005-08-25 18:24:29
113.   Bob Timmermann
'Ewa Beach, HI beat Lafayette, LA 2-0 depsite getting only one hit.

'Ewa Beach will play the team from Vista, CA for the U.S. championship. The Hawai'ians turned 4 DPs!

Curacao vs. Japan for the International Final. When Curacao and Japan get it on, you can throw the record books out the window!

2005-08-25 18:24:38
114.   willhite
112 -

As much as I like Valentin's attitude and realizing that his injury this year hasn't helped any, I think if you look at last year's second half and all of this year, it's about time for him to hang them up

(There, that should mean he'll hit four homers tonight)

2005-08-25 18:26:01
115.   dzzrtRatt
I like Valentin's defense in LF. It's not worth starting him, but since he's there, it'll be fun to watch if he makes any circus catches. He might wind up his career as a late inning defensive replacement for some team.
2005-08-25 18:26:35
116.   Bob Timmermann
Choi last homered on August 2 at Washington
Valentin last homered on April 8 at Arizona.
2005-08-25 18:26:55
117.   werthgagne31
there are still 2 guys not in the lineup and they are perez and ledee.
ledee might not be in there because of the nagging hamstring, but perez no reason.
ledee and perez instead of valentin and robles.
and if we had bradley and drew, them instead of cruz and platoon werth and ledee.
2005-08-25 18:27:47
118.   808Bears
113 Thanks Bob. The screenname should give you a clue as to why I'm so interested.
2005-08-25 18:30:45
119.   Bob Timmermann
118
Does 808Bears have something to with a pro team in Korea?
2005-08-25 18:34:52
120.   willhite
116 -
The last time Valentin homered we were playing at a .750 clip. Those were the good ol' days!
2005-08-25 18:37:55
121.   Bob Timmermann
KC leads Boston 6-2.

Lima vs. Schilling!

2005-08-25 18:39:52
122.   Bob Timmermann
Alex Cora had an RBI double against Lima. Baseball cardiologists were confused.
2005-08-25 18:46:41
123.   willhite
Bring back Lima!
Bring back Cora!
Bring back Finley!

Anyone who can walk upright is welcome.

2005-08-25 18:46:56
124.   Suffering Bruin
122 All those intangibles and chemistry in that seminal event, it's a wonder the fans watching didn't go blind.
2005-08-25 18:53:17
125.   Bob Timmermann
Lima gave up a double to Ramirez to lead off the sixth and got pulled. Reliever Shawn Camp gave up a double to Varitek to make it 6-3.

Buddy Bell left Lima in a position to succeed.

2005-08-25 19:00:45
126.   Bob Timmermann
Mets up on the DBacks 1-0 in the 2nd.
2005-08-25 19:00:50
127.   King of the Hobos
On a DP, the Mets took a 1-0 lead. Pedro is pitching. The Dodgers better win
2005-08-25 19:01:18
128.   King of the Hobos
Make that 2-0, Diaz homered
2005-08-25 19:01:25
129.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 Mets in the 2nd now.
2005-08-25 19:07:32
130.   werthgagne31
arguably the dodgers could be in first place in the division right now if it wasn't for tracy's rediculous lineups in the past.
alot of tight games lost when having izturis(leading off also), repko, phillips, valentin in the lineup and having choi, seanz, ledee, perez on the bench.
if the dodgers finish within 10 games of first place, its on tracy, and the closer they finish to first place the more magnifined it is on tracy.
2005-08-25 19:09:22
131.   werthgagne31
also the lack of using dessens in tight games is another thing on tracy.
dessens statisticly has been our best reliever.
2005-08-25 19:13:12
132.   Suffering Bruin
131 Statistically, perhaps, but I think Duaner Sanchez has been our most consistent bullpen guy.
2005-08-25 19:13:22
133.   Bob Timmermann
I'm very glad the Rockies didn't wear these jerseys last night.

Those uniform tops are incredibly ugly.

So on Sunday the Dodgers are going to wear throwback Brooklyn jerseys. But I assume Houston isn't going to wear anything vintage since there were no Astros in 1955?

2005-08-25 19:15:08
134.   Suffering Bruin
Robles tried the phantom tag and the ump didn't buy it.
2005-08-25 19:15:14
135.   King of the Hobos
Navarro's throw looked good, Robles messed that up I guess, missed the hand completely despite having plenty of time
2005-08-25 19:18:00
136.   werthgagne31
132--- only lately, since he has added or has mastered the change up, i wouldn't say he has been the most consistent all year.
i would say dessens has been the most consistent all year, altho he hasn't been used much thanks to tracy.
but after seeing sanchez's change up a week ago, i'm optimistic about sanchez.
tracy ought to use dessens as the set up man right now (our current roster).
2005-08-25 19:18:30
137.   capdodger
It didn't look like the runner stealing second ever touched the bag with his right hand, and even if he did, it came off before he was touching the bag with his left.

Wish I had Tivo.

2005-08-25 19:20:24
138.   King of the Hobos
Now Choi decides to hit. Last night would have been nice
2005-08-25 19:20:39
139.   Suffering Bruin
137 As someone who has Tivo, let me just say you had it exactly right. The first body part to touch the bag was the dragging left foot. On a head first slide, no less.
2005-08-25 19:21:51
140.   Suffering Bruin
Kent has a problem with people in black uniforms.
2005-08-25 19:22:13
141.   King of the Hobos
The Bradley thing really hasn't helped Kent, he's now 0-9 against the Rockies. If he goes silent, the Dodgers tend to go silent...
2005-08-25 19:25:51
142.   mountainmover
Offseason moves:

Since Beltran has not seemed to jell in NY, how about we send Bradley, O. Perez and Choi for Beltran? It solves problems for both teams. We should be able to take on a big contract then and the Mets get 3 starters.

2006 Lineup:

1. Perez 2B

2. Beltran CF

3. Drew RF

4. Kent 1B

5. Werth LF

6. LaRoche/Guzman 3B (whoever is ready 1st)

7. Martin/Navarro C

8. Robles/Izturis SS (whoever is not traded)

2005-08-25 19:26:15
143.   Suffering Bruin
Aw man...
2005-08-25 19:26:35
144.   Bob Timmermann
But I wonder about Dessens if he would still be as good as he has been if he were used more often. I don't think he's ever been short relief guy. He might not have the most resilient arm. He was disabled for a long spell this year with a shoulder problem.
2005-08-25 19:27:30
145.   Suffering Bruin
So Penny doesn't quite have command of the breaking pitch tonight? Because that thang hung for an hour...
2005-08-25 19:28:27
146.   Bob Timmermann
Vin can't pronounce Omar Quintanilla's name. He keeps pronouncing it as a cross between Quintanilla and Quantrill.
2005-08-25 19:30:51
147.   number1shawnfan
www.shawngreenstinks.com
2005-08-25 19:30:56
148.   Suffering Bruin
142 IF I'm the Mets, I say no. Bradley is hurt with a capital "H", and Perez is very much on the down slope. Choi, IMHO, is a gift to baseball but my deluded opinion is not shared by many. Plus, the NY press would fry the Mets for making the deal.

As for Beltran, he's overpaid and besides, that's just too much money in one player. Let the Mets have him.

2005-08-25 19:31:05
149.   Vishal
i thought it was a back problem, bob?
2005-08-25 19:31:32
150.   number1shawnfan
http://www.shawngreenstinks.com
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-25 19:32:04
151.   number1shawnfan
http//:www.shawngreenstinks.com
2005-08-25 19:32:32
152.   number1shawnfan
screw it

shawngreenstinks.com

2005-08-25 19:32:48
153.   number1shawnfan
screw it

shawngreenstinks.com

2005-08-25 19:32:55
154.   Suffering Bruin
number1shawnfan wants to tell us about a website.
2005-08-25 19:35:05
155.   Suffering Bruin
Vin's point here is well taken. Saenz and Ledee, thought to be bit players, have been producing quite nicely. I think this team would've walked away with this division had they been even moderately healthy. It's why I'm so high optimistic about the future of this team.
2005-08-25 19:35:37
156.   Bob Timmermann
4/24/05 Placed RHP Elmer Dessens on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to April 20, with bone spur in his pitching shoulder.
2005-08-25 19:36:21
157.   Bob Timmermann
156
That was from the MLB.com transactions archive.
2005-08-25 19:37:46
158.   Vishal
ah. well, there were so many injuries this year, it's hard to keep track :)
2005-08-25 19:37:52
159.   Suffering Bruin
Werth is one of the bigger disappointments for me this season. Yes, he's been hurt but even when healthy, he looks like half the player that he was last season.
2005-08-25 19:38:41
160.   Uncle Miltie
Werth didn't need to steal there
2005-08-25 19:38:42
161.   King of the Hobos
Cruz gets the Olney
2005-08-25 19:39:59
162.   Suffering Bruin
High fives for #22! Way to move that runner!
2005-08-25 19:41:52
163.   Suffering Bruin
Has it been brought up that Navarro might be the second coming of Mike Scioscia? I wonder how comparable their stats will be. Outside of switch-hitting, Navarro seems very similar to Scioscia: good eye, good average, good contact, runs like an anvil and has no power.
2005-08-25 19:43:00
164.   Nagman
163 We'll have to see if he's willing to put his life on the line to block the plate.
2005-08-25 19:44:52
165.   Suffering Bruin
I can't believe I forgot about Scioscia's most memorable quality. Navarro tagged out Helton last night but I did not get the sense that Helton regretted the slide.
2005-08-25 19:45:23
166.   Suffering Bruin
Come heck our high water, I'm going to try to catch Clemens on Sunday. I've never seen him pitch live.
2005-08-25 19:46:32
167.   King of the Hobos
164 Does catching the Schmoll pitch count? Wasn't blocking the plate, but that was one heck of a catch
2005-08-25 19:46:55
168.   Bob Timmermann
Let's reminisce.

I'll just use guys who have named injuries on the MLB.com transactions.

4/10 - Antonio Perez (hamstring)
4/24 - Elmer Dessens (bone spur in shoulder)
5/4 - Jose Valentin (knee)
5/18 - Jason Grabowski (shoulder)
5/23 - Odalis Perez (inflamed shoulder)
5/27 - Paul Bako (knee)
6/3 - Milton Bradley (finger)
6/6 - Wilson Alvarez (shoulder)
6/7 - Ricky Ledee (hamstring)
6/15 - Eric Gagne (elbow)
7/4 - J.D. Drew (wrist)
7/5 - Cesar Izturis (hamstring)
7/8 - Kelly Wunsch (ankle)
7/31 - Jayson Werth (knee)
8/11 - Wilson Alvarez (shoulder)
8/22 - Odalis Perez (oblique)
8/25 - Milton Bradley (knee)

I didn't list the preseason injuries to Dreifort, Gagne, Werth, Penny, and Alvarez.

2005-08-25 19:47:35
169.   King of the Hobos
Wh did he walk Sullivan? With Helton up...
2005-08-25 19:48:31
170.   werthgagne31
156-- to be honest i don't understand the difference between pitching 1 inning almost everyday vs pitching 3 innings every 4 or 5 days, and what it has to do with potential injuries.
to me if you throw 15 pitches in 1 inning 3 days in a row it equals 45 pitches in 3 days vs if you throw 45 pitches in 3 innings every 3 days it still equals 45 pitches for 3 days.
i don't know, all i'm saying is that i don't think there is a difference in injury prone as a long reliever vs a short reliever, but i'm no expert.
2005-08-25 19:48:45
171.   King of the Hobos
168 You're missing the preseason injuries, Werth, Gagne, and Penny
2005-08-25 19:49:15
172.   Uncle Miltie
Navarro should have blocked that one
2005-08-25 19:49:16
173.   Bob Timmermann
A friend told me that Helton was safe last night.

However, the ball had hit a security guard so it should have been a dead ball anyway.

2005-08-25 19:49:53
174.   Suffering Bruin
168 Every year we some announcer will say of some team that they've "never seen this many injuries strike a ballclub." It's often an overstatement.

Not this year. Not with the Dodgers. I cannot immediately recall a season like this one.

2005-08-25 19:50:12
175.   Bob Timmermann
As I wrote at the end of 168
I didn't list the preseason injuries to Dreifort, Gagne, Werth, Penny, and Alvarez.
2005-08-25 19:50:50
176.   Suffering Bruin
171 See the last line of post 168.
2005-08-25 19:51:30
177.   King of the Hobos
173 Guess I stopped reading =/
2005-08-25 19:52:08
178.   Bob Timmermann
The preseason injuries didn't have descriptions listed by them.
2005-08-25 19:52:51
179.   Suffering Bruin
This is an anxious moment...
2005-08-25 19:53:27
180.   King of the Hobos
This really sucks. This was suppose to be an easy win, and Werth almost had that. Well, we'll be 6.5 back, and we'll fall more this weekend. Go A's!
2005-08-25 19:53:29
181.   oldbear
That was terrible.
2005-08-25 19:53:40
182.   Suffering Bruin
ouch.
2005-08-25 19:54:23
183.   Uncle Miltie
Fastball down the middle. To the Rockies announcers it was "sheer power". They are already talking about a "road sweep...errr road win"
2005-08-25 19:54:54
184.   Suffering Bruin
The replay suggests that Werth barely missed that one.
2005-08-25 19:55:05
185.   Bob Timmermann
I found out long ago.

It's a long, long way on Holliday Road.
Holliday Road.
Holliday Road.
Holliday Road.

Matt be nimble, Matt be quick
Take a ride on with the Rockies stick!
Holliday Road.
Holliday Road.
Holliday Road.

2005-08-25 19:55:15
186.   oldbear
Tonite's game makes DJ Houlton's start that much more impressive.

Penny with another walk. And he doesnt look like he's got anything tonite.

2005-08-25 19:55:15
187.   Uncle Miltie
Penny has no control..bring in Dessens now!
2005-08-25 19:55:32
188.   Suffering Bruin
Brad Penny tonight is a one-pitch pitcher.
2005-08-25 19:56:03
189.   capdodger
The strike zone seems narrow and tall tonight. Bad for Penny, I guess...
2005-08-25 19:56:34
190.   King of the Hobos
Penny is doing terrible. No ability to hit the strike zone whatsoever.
2005-08-25 19:56:43
191.   Uncle Miltie
A one pitch pitcher with no control of that pitch.
2005-08-25 19:58:14
192.   oldbear
We have the lineup in there to come back, but Robles and Kent have to do something. Robles 0-6 and Kent 0-9 in the series. Hard to put rallies together when your leadoff man, and 3rd place hitter are slumping.
2005-08-25 20:00:44
193.   Uncle Miltie
Kent stinks now. He can't even back up his big mouth.
2005-08-25 20:01:56
194.   Suffering Bruin
I'll take a little luck, thanks.
2005-08-25 20:02:37
195.   Suffering Bruin
Penny fails to get an Olney.
2005-08-25 20:02:59
196.   Uncle Miltie
The Rockies announcer thought that Penny was trying to bunt down the 1st base line and called Penny "a pretty good hitter"
2005-08-25 20:03:18
197.   Bob Timmermann
Padres injuries:

Preseason: Dave Roberts (something)
4/8: Eric Young (dislocated shoulder)
4/18: Khalil Greene (finger)
5/2: Geoff Blum (chest contusion)
5/4: Woody Williams (oblique)
5/9: Tim Redding (shoulder)
5/24: Mark Loretta (hand?)
6/22: Adam Eaton (finger)
6/22: Ramon Hernandez (wrist)
6/26: Phil Nevin (oblique)
7/18: Rudy Seanez (shoulder)
7/29: Ramon Hernandez (wrist)
7/29: Chris Hammond (neck)
8/10: Adam Eaton (finger)
8/15: Khalil Greene (toe)

2005-08-25 20:03:28
198.   oldbear
Dang Penny we could have used an Olney at least right there.
2005-08-25 20:03:58
199.   Suffering Bruin
196 It would appear that the Rockies announcer is a wonderful human being who sees good in each and every one of his fellow men. I like him.
2005-08-25 20:05:10
200.   Suffering Bruin
197 Vinny just said Colorado has lost every position player at one time or another and the bullpen injury situation has been even worse.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-25 20:05:44
201.   Uncle Miltie
"A one out double for Robles...he loves Colorado pitching."
Who doesn't?
2005-08-25 20:05:46
202.   HomeDePo
couple questions:
do you think jtd plays short in the majors? do we keep izi if we move joel to the outfield? do we have delwyn young or antonio perez at second in the future? james loney or hee seop choi?
2005-08-25 20:05:53
203.   Vishal
i think this east coast thing is gonna be all right. following half the game is more than enough these days. g'night all.
2005-08-25 20:06:15
204.   Suffering Bruin
197 At a glance, I think the Dodgers have had it significantly tougher in the injury department though it hasn't been a bowl of cherries for the Padres. Maybe the NL West isn't all that weak but just hurt?
2005-08-25 20:06:33
205.   Bob Timmermann
200
But the Rockies weren't starting with anyone good to begin with. Except for Helton. Barmes was slumping when he went on the DL with a freak deer meat accident.
2005-08-25 20:07:10
206.   Suffering Bruin
Vishal, remind me... why are you on the east coast?
2005-08-25 20:07:47
207.   King of the Hobos
Why did Choi swing at the 3-1? He wanted the Olney?
2005-08-25 20:08:00
208.   Suffering Bruin
Was that a fastball? 'Cuz it moved like a knuckler...
2005-08-25 20:08:28
209.   oldbear
I wish patient Choi would come back. That was a bad swing for a 3-1 pitch.
2005-08-25 20:08:40
210.   Bob Timmermann
I think Arizona's injuries have mainly been to their pitchers and have reduced its staff from being bad to really bad.

San Francisco has lost Bonds obviously, but Alou has been on the DL twice. Some of the other outfielders have been injured and almost all of the pitchers have gone on the DL.

2005-08-25 20:09:33
211.   Suffering Bruin
209 Yeah but that pitch was moving like a soap bubble in hurricane. Sorry for the bad analogy but that's what stood out to me.
2005-08-25 20:10:13
212.   Uncle Miltie
202- no Guzman will probably play RF. Izzy stays until Hu is ready. Young is probably a better hitter, neither is good defensively, neither will play 2B if Tracy is the manager. Choi/FA for now. Loney is at least 1-2 years away.

By the way, did I mention that Kent stinks.

2005-08-25 20:10:33
213.   oldbear
Jeff Kent's now 0-10 in the series. He looks like crap.
2005-08-25 20:10:49
214.   los angeles dragons
I'd rather be Milton than Jeffrey right now.
2005-08-25 20:11:07
215.   molokai
Ah a fitting way to end our season and hopes. The worse road team in baseball bashes our best pitcher in our ballpark. Nice to see Penny come up strong when we needed him. When DJ Houlton is your best pitcher in August I get a little worried about a bloated starting pitching staff under contract for the future. Not even a year has passed and the bad contracts in the winter of 2005 have already made OP and Lowe bloated corpses. It wasn't just Depo, if you look at all the silly contracts given to pitchers in 2005 you will find very very few success stories.
Pavano-bad
Wright-bad
Clement - looked good but he's been awfull since the break
Lowe-bad
OP - bad
Radke-at least he pitches but surely not worth his contract
Pedro - living up to his
Millwood - best value, not a lot of wins but has had a very good season

Still disapointed in Depo, thought he was going to be smarter then the rest.

I wonder if the management boys will continue to throw big money at bad arms and mediocre pitching in 2006. AJ Burnett will be an interesting test. Great stuff, injury prone, sounds like a Yankee to me. I think it is safe to assume that Weaver will not be persued by the Yankees. He probably should go back to Detroit, he could help that team.

2005-08-25 20:11:53
216.   Bob Timmermann
211
The analogy cops are going to be all over you like a cheap suit.
2005-08-25 20:12:33
217.   Suffering Bruin
"Dodger Stadium: there's no better place to play."

Dodgers might want to update that promo. I love Milton but it sounds a little incongruous.

2005-08-25 20:12:58
218.   Gen3Blue
Hey, not bad-Valentin scored from second on that double.
As good as the Dodgers talent is in most of the minors, its interesting to see that once you remove four or five of the best players, LA and Vegas have lousy records. Would this be true of most organizations. Of course, we've had many Vegas players off and on.
2005-08-25 20:12:59
219.   oldbear
212. Izturis wont last past the winter. He's OPS'ed .556, .590, .711, and now .620 this season. He doesnt fit in with this team.
2005-08-25 20:14:01
220.   Uncle Miltie
Perez is a good pitcher when he's healthy. Let's see how he does next year. Signing Lowe was a huge mistake, he makes way too much money for a innings eater. They would have been better off extending Weaver.
2005-08-25 20:14:04
221.   Suffering Bruin
Cook, Butler or Gardner? Heckuva trivia question...
2005-08-25 20:14:08
222.   King of the Hobos
I say Loaiza is the best investment. Bowden got him for next to nothing
2005-08-25 20:15:21
223.   Nagman
I flipped over to the Met-Dback game and Pedro had a no hitter thru 5. Mark Grace was doing his best to jinx it and Pedro promptly gave up a hit, to which Grace exclaimed "My bad!".
2005-08-25 20:15:23
224.   Suffering Bruin
Brad Penny has just entered the stadium.
2005-08-25 20:16:12
225.   oldbear
215. Weisman was right when he said Jeff Weaver was the most mediocre of the mediocre. Even in a 'good' Weaver season, he's mediocre.

Lowe, Penny, and Odalis Perez all have at least had good seasons in the past.

Jeff Weaver has never had a good season. But somehow he's made 8-9 mils per season. Scott Boras is a genius.

2005-08-25 20:16:36
226.   Suffering Bruin
216 :)
2005-08-25 20:18:25
227.   oldbear
220. How do you figure? Lowe's had a better career than Jeff Weaver has.

Lowe at his best was a very good pitcher.
Weaver at his best, is still only mediocre.

Lowe's had a much better career than Weaver, and seemed like a safer investment if you are going to throw money at either one.

2005-08-25 20:18:48
228.   Suffering Bruin
Did I just hear that Sunday's telecast will be shot with 1955 technology?
2005-08-25 20:19:16
229.   capdodger
The webfeed is awful in DC tonight. The Chineese hackers must be eating up the bandwith in their attacks on the US government. OTOH, with a game like this, I might consider sending them a thank you card for saving me the pain.
2005-08-25 20:19:25
230.   Bob Timmermann
228
You mean it will be in black & white with two cameras?
2005-08-25 20:19:33
231.   Suffering Bruin
The answer to the AFLAC trivia question has completed my life. There is nothing left to know...
2005-08-25 20:20:57
232.   King of the Hobos
Another swing at a 3-1 pitch. This will be a long night with so many lost 3-1's
2005-08-25 20:21:32
233.   oldbear
Whats with our hitters swinging at 3-1 pitches? We need baserunners.

Terrible at bats by both Saenz/Choi. They were ahead in the count. You gotta get on base when you make it to 3-1.

Hard to comeback when you give away at bats like those two just did.

2005-08-25 20:22:03
234.   Suffering Bruin
Lima with the win over Schilling tonight.
2005-08-25 20:23:12
235.   Gen3Blue
Uh-oh. Werth probably broke his ankle
2005-08-25 20:24:19
236.   Uncle Miltie
219- I addressed this issue yesterday..here's what I said..
Robles is almost 30 years old. Depodesta is not going to trade a 25 year old SS coming off of a poor year. If he is traded, it will be when Hu is ready.

nate: what makes robles a bench player and izzy not one?
age, salary, defensive reputation

alex 7: miltie, when/if Iz bounces back next year, will he be much better than Robles' current .280 gap-power-some-walks hitting ability?
no, but he'll be a better defender and will likely raise his trade value- also the Dodgers haven't had any stability at SS in a long time, it's nice to have a SS that plays great defensive (which I expect Izzy to do next year while being for the most part, fully healthy)

Finally...
Izturis needs to be traded/package Izturis for a SP like Penny/Izturis stinks look at his career OPS/etc
A .250 hitting SS with good defense and no power doesn't have much value. A .280-.300 hitting SS with very good defense is gold. Like 542 said, Izzy won't have a lot of value in the offseason coming off of a poor season.

I want him gone no matter what we get in return...even if we get a mediocre veteran in return
He's entering his prime. Check out Omar Vizquel's career...say 1993...kinda looks like another young Venezuelan SS.
Vizquel '93 (26 years old) .255/.319/.298 .617
Izturis '05 (25 years old) .257/.302/.322 .624

I'm sorry that you can't come up with anything better than the he stinks argument without pulling up statistics of a young player that was rushed to the majors.

2005-08-25 20:26:27
237.   oldbear
Good at bat by Werth but he couldnt finish it off. When you get the count to 3-2 or 3-1, you have to at the very worst get a walk.
2005-08-25 20:30:33
238.   werthgagne31
236---i don't understand what you are saying, could you explain in a shorter to the point way.
2005-08-25 20:30:58
239.   capdodger
Pinch hit Penny!!!!
2005-08-25 20:31:03
240.   Gen3Blue
Package Iz for a pitcher like Penny? So the pitcher misses a year and then is mediocre?
Izzy should be OK.
2005-08-25 20:32:04
241.   King of the Hobos
Perfect chance for some runs and Penny is batting. ugh...
2005-08-25 20:33:13
242.   oldbear
Dodgers are playing some really really dumb baseball tonite. WHat on earth possessed our .100 hitting Pitcher to 1st pitch hack with the bases juiced???

Cook's got nothing tonite. But our hitters are having some dumb at bats.

That, and we have no power.

2005-08-25 20:33:21
243.   Jim Hitchcock
206 Vishal is going to New York for edification...
2005-08-25 20:33:22
244.   King of the Hobos
Cook is at 69 pitches and showed signs of weakness. I suppose 3 runs is very possible
2005-08-25 20:34:25
245.   bokonon42
236- Vizquel OPS+ed better than 100(average) only once (1999). I understand the school of thought by which he is considered the best (or at least one of the greats) SS ever, but it's not the same school as the one that values OPS above all else. By that school, four starting SSs are having better years than Vizquel ever did. Two of them are younger than Izzy.
2005-08-25 20:34:37
246.   Suffering Bruin
240 Tonight's performance notwithstanding, Penny has been far from mediocre. I think at his best he's a #2 pitcher. If I could get another guy like him for Izzy, I'd do it but that's my opinion.
2005-08-25 20:35:17
247.   Uncle Miltie
238- don't trade Izturis now when he has no value, wait another year- let him build up his value, preferably wait until Hu is ready, by then Izturis might be an Omar Vizquel clone/a franchise SS in which case you keep him and trade Hu. Vizquel didn't post his first .700 OPS until he was 29 years old. Izturis did it as a 24 year old.

That post was directed towards you oldbear, though you probably would rather not respond to it with some valid points.

Fire Tracy....now?

2005-08-25 20:35:24
248.   Suffering Bruin
243 Thanks for that...
2005-08-25 20:35:50
249.   oldbear
-I think we should trade Izturis before his value falls even lower.
2005-08-25 20:36:26
250.   Jim Hitchcock
Where in the hell do the Rockies think their playing, fercryinoutloud.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-08-25 20:36:34
251.   dzzrtRatt
I think the Dodgers are now in Acceptance.
2005-08-25 20:37:00
252.   capdodger
Is that a GP? I think it is. Miles has 8 career HRs in 815 AB's.
2005-08-25 20:37:20
253.   King of the Hobos
And that makes the non-PH look bad. Especially against Miles. This why we need our good bench, too bad they can't start AND sit on the bench.
2005-08-25 20:37:33
254.   Suffering Bruin
Bob has a list of players he hates.

I officially hate Aaron Miles. He's short, he's a bad hitter and he plays like he's a buzzing fly. And yet every time I see him play against us, he does something. Hate him, hate him, hate him!

2005-08-25 20:37:52
255.   Jon Weisman
You know, I read the comments about pinch-hitting for Penny and I thought, no - I like to be aggressive with pinch-hitting, but the fourth inning is too early. (And I remember Tommy John in the 1981 World Series.)

Then I saw Penny had thrown 80 pitches in a mediocre outing and figured he had at best one good inning left, which fits into my theory. Bases loaded, down three, September around the corner, brutal series coming up with Pettite, Oswalt and Clemens? Yeah, pinch-hit. Use your top card now (Ledee, I guess).

The home run Penny just allowed in the fifth is merely epilogue.

2005-08-25 20:38:13
256.   Uncle Miltie
249- what you don't understand is that it's unlikely that Izturis reached his offensive peak at 24. Possible, but unlikely.
2005-08-25 20:38:14
257.   oldbear
247. How do you Izturis wont keep getting worse? The guy was never good to begin with, and a had a career offensive season that made everyone notice his defense, and thus the gold glove.

But Izzy is getting paid 7 mils the next 2 seasons to OPS .640... I dont think so. Let someone else have that headache.

Izturis has NEVER hit. Nor will he.

2005-08-25 20:38:42
258.   Jim Hitchcock
248 Something about a school for government and policy.
2005-08-25 20:39:03
259.   Bob Timmermann
254
Welcome to my world!

It's best to fixate on guys who are mostly harmless to dislike.

If you spend your life with a blood feud against Barry Bonds, you aren't going to like it because Bonds will beat you too often.

2005-08-25 20:40:17
260.   oldbear
256. Even in his offensive 'peak', he's still a liablity with the bat. This is a player that has NEVER OBP'ed .340 in a season. Thats terrible. Never in the minors, or majors. No power whatsoever either.

And tonite's game further illustrates that defense is very minimal

Power hitting and pitching wins games.

2005-08-25 20:40:59
261.   King of the Hobos
So the Bradley/Kent fiasco was only a distraction so the baseball gods could inject the one last lethal dose. September should be fun at least, as long as our callups don't consist only of Rose, Ross, and Erickson
2005-08-25 20:42:12
262.   Suffering Bruin
255 Practically, you and everyone else are probably right. And I doubt Penny would've thrown a fit. But I think there's a code that when your number one guy is pitching and you're within three runs, you stick with him. Penny pitched very well the previous inning (granted against the bottom of the order) but I think the main reason you stick with him is for the psychological benefit of having your number one guy on the hill when you're trying to come back.
2005-08-25 20:43:27
263.   capdodger
255 I didn't even look at the pitch count. I just don't like watching a pitcher walk batters and, on the rare times they throw a pitch in the zone, give up homeruns.
2005-08-25 20:44:38
264.   King of the Hobos
Men on the corners, no outs for the DBacks, down 2-0
2005-08-25 20:45:55
265.   Jon Weisman
So has the curse of Steve moved on to other endeavors entirely?
2005-08-25 20:46:20
266.   capdodger
262 So you're saying that leaving Penny in means that there's some sort of Placebo effect that causes a trailing team to forget that they're losing?
2005-08-25 20:46:31
267.   werthgagne31
247-- o.k. i got it now.
but i disagree about izturis having no trade value, there are plenty of gm's that value defense at ss and don't really care about offense at the position, dan evans is one.
also what's the fascination with hu, he hasn't put up any numbers that tell me he is going to be special.
if anything guzman should be our future ss, guzman is a free swinger with power, if he plays anywhere but ss his value drops drasticly.
if guzman is not our future ss then i say trade him.
maybe we are on different pages, maybe you value defense over offense, if so, we are on different pages.
we have seanz and robles for 3b, and perez and robles for ss, i don't see the need for izturis.
and i don't want to take the chance of hurting the team next year by giving izturis another year to try to improve his offense, so he will have a little more trade value.
and he won't ever put up a decent ops, so giving him time to improve offensively to see if its worth it to keep him is out of the question.
2005-08-25 20:46:44
268.   oldbear
Another 3-2 count and Robles cant deliver. Looks the Dodgers are refusing to walk tonite. They must have taken too many last nite against Kim.
2005-08-25 20:46:58
269.   Uncle Miltie
.710 OPS/.330 OBP is good for an excellent defensive SS. Like I said, it is unlikely that Izturis readched his offensive peak at 24. Please compare Izturis to another young SS that was similar offensively and defensively and flamed out after peaking early. You don't need an .800 OPS from every position. Hee Seop Choi is an average offensive 1st baseman and nothing special defensively. Who will replace Izturis at SS for the next 3 years while Hu develops? 30 year old Oscar Robles, who is a mild upgrade offensively, and a pretty big downgrade defensively (when Izzy is healthy).

*Meanwhile, Izturis is limping through the clubhouse and the pain is shooting from his back through his right leg. "I feel like an old man," he said. "I can't bend over. I can't do anything."

He said he suffered the injury during a game at Washington three weeks ago and re-injured it Monday.*
I'm sure this hasn't affected his offense or defense at all

2005-08-25 20:48:08
270.   oldbear
Choi gets ahead in the count, cant deliever.

This is terrible.

2005-08-25 20:53:32
271.   capdodger
269 But Izturis' offense hasn't been good since May.

June July August
.297 .597 .493

That's not just bad, that's awful. Surely he hasn't been hiding injury all this time.

2005-08-25 20:53:43
272.   Gen3Blue
Maybe that will get Jeff out of his funk.Realistically he's been great this season.Lousy lately.
I'm afraid this week-ends Brew-hah-hah was the snapping point after all the injuries.Acceptance.
2005-08-25 20:54:51
273.   capdodger
271 Ed: Those are OPSes.
2005-08-25 20:56:34
274.   werthgagne31
buyah, my boy werth delivers.
sorry, i like werth.
2005-08-25 20:59:41
275.   oldbear
Cruz gives away another 3-2 count. Plate discipline is atrocious tonite.
2005-08-25 21:00:17
276.   King of the Hobos
Another 2 out rally without much success. At least Cook is at 97, and the Rockies pen is hittable. But we all know why Cruz is still with the Dodgers, to give Vin some more deuces
2005-08-25 21:00:34
277.   King of the Hobos
Chad Tracy homered, 2-1 Mets
2005-08-25 21:00:52
278.   Uncle Miltie
267- Guzman is not a SS. He is too big (he would likely be the tallest SS in major league history). He will probably gain between 10-20 pounds, putting him at 235-245. I haven't seen any SS THAT big. Perez would be terrible at SS, Robles is barely average defensively and has no longterm future with the team as a starter. I don't value defense over offense. Izturis is fine when he is producing a .700 OPS and playing great defense, which I believe he is capable of doing, but when he is playing like he is this year, obviously he shouldn't starting. I think the back injury has affeceted his defense, offense, and speed. I'd like to see him next year-healthy- on the Dodgers. I believe that Hu will play great defense like Izturis, hit for more power, and be a good basestealer. I value defense up the middle (C, 2B, SS, CF). SS is one position where you can sacrifice some hitting. If Izturis was batting 8th and producing like last year would anyone have a problem? No.
2005-08-25 21:03:49
279.   capdodger
9

That's the number of 3-x counts the Dodgers have had tonight.

1

The number of walks.

Indeed.

2005-08-25 21:04:54
280.   King of the Hobos
Alvarez is feeling better and will pitch in the bullpen over the weekend. Bradley gets his second opinion tomorrow, and Izzy will get an MRI.

As for the milk incident, Penny is paying the lost wages of the batboy, and fears for the batboy's job security. And a bunch of talk shows want them to appear as guests.

2005-08-25 21:05:29
281.   Suffering Bruin
266 Exactly! I'm glad you agree! :)
2005-08-25 21:06:59
282.   Xeifrank
I have to admit I am getting pretty upset about the play of Jose Nakamura Jr. He looks awful at the plate. He swings like a girl, and I have nothing against girls. :) Meatball is at the game, and the cameras caught him stuffing his face. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:08:09
283.   oldbear
278. "Izturis is fine when he is producing a .700 OPS and playing great defense, which I believe he is capable of doing"

Nothing in his past 9 year career would support that expectation though. His #'s everywhere he's been have been pretty much terrible offensively.

I dont believe in "We'll we can afford bad production from such and such position"... The only position where you could make that claim would be catcher, where there are very few good offensive players.

However at SS. There are plenty of SS's that hit really well too.

Sure Choi and Saenz are average 1st basemen. But put them together, and they are a good 1st basemen.

Izturis on his own is a pretty poor offensive SS. And I dont think his defense makes up for that.

I look at Izturis and see Juan Castro. I dont want to see that anymore

2005-08-25 21:09:48
284.   oldbear
279. Good stat. Thats why we only have 2 runs, even though everyone in the lineup has at least 1 hit.

We need to get back to taking walks, getting on base, and then someone, anyone, hit a HOME RUN Finally.

We havent hit 1 since Saturday's game.

2005-08-25 21:11:26
285.   Uncle Miltie
However at SS. There are plenty of SS's that hit really well too.
That hit well (not sure what you consider hitting well) and play at least pretty good defense, and aren't extremely expensive? Who?
2005-08-25 21:14:54
286.   Xeifrank
I see the "trade Izturis" marching and chowder society is still going strong tonight. I think anyone on the team is tradeable for the right deal, but like mentioned last night I don't see any way you would get a pitcher of Penny's abilities for Izturis, even if you threw in goggle boy and someone from AAA. With Izturis being banged up this year, and his prime years just around the corner along with a contract year, I wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. I would prefer he move to 8th in the lineup for the meantime. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:15:20
287.   oldbear
Viva Navarro. I swear this guy has the best strike zone judgement of all our hitters, and he's only 21!

Leadoff walk.

2005-08-25 21:16:59
288.   Xeifrank
2 more 3-2 counts to start off the 6th inning... and what do you know back 2 back walks and APerez coming up. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:17:19
289.   dzzrtRatt
278 Although I'd love to say it's because Jim Tracy is retarded, it's pretty clear to me that when Izturis leads off, it's because the Dodgers aren't currently equipped with a batter who fits the 'leadoff hitter' profile. Reason No. 2 is the great start he had to the season. When the Dodgers were scoring runs, Izturis was scoring and/or driving in a fair share of them. Tracy probably thinks that's the 'real' Izzy, who but for injury would be still doing that.

Are any of the Suns good at getting on base, can steal a base without getting caught half the time, show good plate discipline, with occasional power? When that guy shows up, Izzy's days as leadoff hitter will end.

I'm exhausted with this Dodger team. Just like the 90s team; kinda good in spots, but nowhere near good enough. Only two real stars, one of them out for the year, the other a reader of motocross magazines. I hope there are some Pujols, Crawfords, Ryan Howards, John Pattersons, Zack Dukes, Jake Peavys, etc., somewhere in the minors for us. It's been a long wait for a dynamite team to come together again.

2005-08-25 21:17:19
290.   oldbear
Bout time we start converting those 3-x counts into walks.

Good job Valentin.

2005-08-25 21:17:36
291.   Gen3Blue
274 I like Werth --he's a great blend of speed and power. I'm just so bitter after all the injuries I like to mouth off about him being brittle.
2005-08-25 21:19:09
292.   King of the Hobos
285 Michael Young, Bobby Crosby, Jhonny Peralta, Khalil Greene, Pedro Feliz, Russ Adams, Aaron Hill, Julio Lugo, Carlos Guillen, Rafael Furcal, Bill Hall, Jimmy Rollins, and maybe JJ Hardy (although he's doing terrible this year)
2005-08-25 21:20:34
293.   capdodger
Is Valentin slow? The COL booth crew keeps refering to him as slow. I know he's old but he can't be as slow as a catcher, right?
2005-08-25 21:21:01
294.   bokonon42
282- Meathead, you mean? Not a very nice way to address the next Gov. of California!
2005-08-25 21:21:53
295.   King of the Hobos
Perez didn't need to be greedy, he could ultimately cost us the tying run...
2005-08-25 21:21:58
296.   Suffering Bruin
We got another run! And I've got to get to dinner... c'mon team!!
2005-08-25 21:22:10
297.   Xeifrank
So, who's at the game jinxing us tonight? Dummy APerez makes a baserunning blunder. Kent should get in his grill, but of course doesn't know how to treat brown players.
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:22:39
298.   werthgagne31
buyah, bench boy (thanks to tracy) delivers.
sorry, i think perez should start everyday.
2005-08-25 21:23:15
299.   Bob Timmermann
297

I'm safely at home.

2005-08-25 21:23:22
300.   King of the Hobos
Perez would have scored...
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-08-25 21:23:57
301.   Bob Timmermann
300
Perez would have scored from first on that hit?
2005-08-25 21:23:59
302.   oldbear
AP thats type of play that will get you a Wilton Guerrero "I can hit but I'm a moron" label.
2005-08-25 21:24:48
303.   bokonon42
292- Is Felipe Lopez's defense any good?
2005-08-25 21:25:03
304.   King of the Hobos
If Choi, Kent, and Saenz weren't up against whatever the Rockies throw at us (Carvajal and Fuentes are the only threats that I can think of), I'd be extremely mad at Perez
2005-08-25 21:25:17
305.   Xeifrank
299. Good! I saw some tall lanky guy sitting behind home plate and was worried you got comped some good tix. :) Any chance you can do a random game call back of the Ruess near perfecto sometime?
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:25:37
306.   Icaros
Looked like the guy missed the tag on AP to me. The ball definitely beat him, though.
2005-08-25 21:25:59
307.   King of the Hobos
301 Good point. Sorry for my irrational thinking. However, I stand by my 304 post
2005-08-25 21:26:33
308.   Bob Timmermann
305
Well, then it wouldn't be random would it?

Just one game per year, sorry them's the rules.

2005-08-25 21:26:51
309.   dzzrtRatt
Which Choi do we get tonight?
2005-08-25 21:26:56
310.   King of the Hobos
Mets scored another run on a sac fly, 3-1
2005-08-25 21:27:01
311.   oldbear
Maybe Chopper can send a long one out and make Penny a winner? Lets go Hee Seop.
2005-08-25 21:27:16
312.   Bob Timmermann
I like the way the pitcher spells his last name.
2005-08-25 21:27:30
313.   Jim Hitchcock
Meathead, you mean? Not a very nice way to address the next Gov. of California!

No way. We're holding out for Gavin Newsom :)

2005-08-25 21:28:34
314.   Gen3Blue
Booyahh!
2005-08-25 21:28:40
315.   Xeifrank
Choizturis draws another walk. Colorado is handing us this game on a silver bullet platter. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:29:01
316.   oldbear
Way to go Chopper. 2 on for Kent.

Kent please try not to suck this time.

2005-08-25 21:29:15
317.   Bob Timmermann
Is the annual "Rally against the Rockies bullpen with a bunch of walks after Milton Bradley has a problem" Day?
2005-08-25 21:29:40
318.   Xeifrank
308. It could be psuedo random, or even quasi. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:30:00
319.   capdodger
A good Choi kind of night. 1-3 with a BB tonight.
2005-08-25 21:30:00
320.   Strike4
Acceptance really was the proper mode even back on the eve of opening day. We started with holes at catcher, first, third and left... still there. Our starting pitching had Perez and Weaver... still there sort of. Of course injuries magnified the weaknesses, but this team never really had any chance. 80-100 wins was homer talk.

To rub salt in our wounds--
Encarnacion 9/28 (.321)last 10 games; season .365 OBP, 15 HR, 67 rbi.
LoDuca 9/30 (.300); .355, 4 HR, 48 rbi.
Green 11/36 (.306); .357, 19 HR, 65 rbi.
Beltre 14/40 (.350); .302, 18 HR, 76 rbi.
Even Lima is 4w 6l last 10 games including a solid game tonight; prox 4.5 era season.
Finley and Cora obviously good departures.

My point is that last year's team was good then and would still be good now. The g.m. was just following orders to reduce his payroll. Too bad he couldn't focus on the starting pitching.

The future looks equally grim unless many of the prospects turn out to be major league quality. Currently, the g.m. performance grade is D.

2005-08-25 21:30:10
321.   Jim Hitchcock
Why is it I don't feel we will be `back in the game' until we get a 3 run lead?
2005-08-25 21:31:58
322.   Bob Timmermann
Send Robles! He needs more CS to catch Pete Runnels!
2005-08-25 21:32:13
323.   Xeifrank
320. I bet you get a few responses to that post. Meanwhile the 4th BB of the inning.
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:32:31
324.   oldbear
Bases Juiced for Big Sexy.
2005-08-25 21:33:10
325.   Icaros
Yeah, that .302 OBP for Beltre and his contract is killing me.
2005-08-25 21:33:28
326.   Bob Timmermann
9/28/2004

http://tinyurl.com/e4nje

2005-08-25 21:33:42
327.   Xeifrank
320. http://www.firejimtracy.com/?p=1197#comments

Posts 7, 10 and 16

vr, Xei

2005-08-25 21:33:57
328.   capdodger
320 Sample Size Alert.
2005-08-25 21:34:05
329.   werthgagne31
314-- so thats how you spell it, i'm not a good speller.

booyahh!!!!

whooo!!!!!

2005-08-25 21:35:14
330.   Xeifrank
Old Maid! How could you let us down like that. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:35:23
331.   King of the Hobos
Saenz is not clutch. Back to my discontent earlier, Perez would have tied the game, even if I was thinking straight
2005-08-25 21:35:53
332.   oldbear
Olmedo that was awful. You took 1 real strike. Then swung at 2 balls. Terrible.
2005-08-25 21:37:12
333.   oldbear
UGLY.
2005-08-25 21:37:34
334.   Xeifrank
331. Yep, the APerez base running blunder was pretty huge that inning. Wonder if Antonio will go to the press when Kent gets in his grill in the dugout. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:38:50
335.   Strike4
Was Bradley considered to be a clubhouse disruption in Cleveland prior to run-ins with the manager? I never heard so.

I haven't heard he's a Dodger clubhouse disruption. It seems Kent relationship problems crop up with many people.

There's no reason to think he'd be gone from the Dodgers unless he starts having run-ins with management or directly embarrasses them. He's a good value if he stays healthy.

2005-08-25 21:38:52
336.   dzzrtRatt
323 I bet he won't. The argument has become both boring and moot. Would we want Encarnacion back? Should we have jumped into an auction for Beltre and bid more than $17 mil? Do we really miss Lima? Zzzzzzzz.
2005-08-25 21:39:05
337.   King of the Hobos
Well, this always makes one happy:

.............R.H...E
Rockies..5..4..2
Dodgers.4.10.0

2005-08-25 21:39:23
338.   Bob Timmermann
Brennaman and Grace are really giving the DBacks a lot of grief over their poor performance of late. I was surprised at how few runs Arizona has scored at home lately.

The Rockies came into tonight's game with a better run difference than the DBacks.

2005-08-25 21:39:25
339.   Jim Hitchcock
I wonder if the girl in the red bikini tossing the volleyball can hit?
2005-08-25 21:39:48
340.   capdodger
Eh... There's still 3 innings of the Rox bullpen vs the Bum's in the bullpen. This could be a high scoring affair.
2005-08-25 21:39:57
341.   oldbear
320. Nice comedy. I specifically liked how he tried to even present Jose Lima in a positive light. Priceless. I dont even think the Dodgers.com board is that illogical.
2005-08-25 21:40:45
342.   Uncle Miltie
That hit well (not sure what you consider hitting well) and play at least pretty good defense, and aren't extremely expensive? Who?

...and how many of these guys are available and cheap?

(N/A) Not (E) Expensive
Michael Young- N/A, terrible defensively
Bobby Crosby- N/A
Jhonny Peralta- N/A below average defender
Khalil Greene- N/A 304 OBP, average d...he's good?
Pedro Feliz- hahahaha, what about Beltre? He would be a TERRIBLE defender at SS. He's played maybe 10 games there in his career.
Russ Adams- N/A not sure about his defense
Aaron Hill- are you pulling names out of a hat? He's a 3B/DH...and a below average defender
Julio Lugo- should be available, but the D-rays would want top prospects
Carlos Guillen- N/A, injury prone
Rafael Furcal- E
Bill Hall- N/A, not very good defensively, is now a 2B/3B
Jimmy Rollins- E and you thought Izturis was overpaid?
JJ Hardy- N/A- not better than Izturis, yet.

Like I said who would replace Izturis for the next 3 years or so.

2005-08-25 21:40:46
343.   Bob Timmermann
339
I believe "the girl in the red bikini" is also known as Olympic gold medalist Kerri Walsh.
2005-08-25 21:41:31
344.   werthgagne31
a dessens spotting, but only for 1 inning.
why not a double switch, so he can go 2 innings.
2005-08-25 21:42:13
345.   Bob Timmermann
Jose Lima's ERA right now is 6.43.

He's going to have to turn in to the second coming of Bret Saberhagen to get it down to 4.50.

2005-08-25 21:42:13
346.   King of the Hobos
342 You didn't say available. And I meant Felipe Lopez. That's one heck of a mistake
2005-08-25 21:43:08
347.   bokonon42
Last year's team might have had the inverse luck of this year's. It was six wins over it's pythagorean projection, and the drop off in stats from last year's players to their this year's numbers seems pretty amazing. Not just Beltre, but Odalis and Izzy, and Finley, and Jose Hernandez (down .260 OPS points over about as many ABs), Yhency, Mota, Gio. . .
2005-08-25 21:43:36
348.   King of the Hobos
And Aaron Hill is a natural SS. He just has Adams to compete with. I'm not pulling names out of a hat, I'd much rather have him
2005-08-25 21:44:58
349.   Icaros
Jose Lima's ERA right now is 6.43.

Two runs per nine were subtracted for his cheerleading and showmanship.

2005-08-25 21:45:18
350.   Xeifrank
Uh... CruzJr, that's the CFers ball. We don't need any more seriously injured OFers. By the way, missed the story, what's the deal with Penny & MilkGate?
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-08-25 21:45:27
351.   Gen3Blue
Man. Cruze almost blew it!
2005-08-25 21:46:42
352.   King of the Hobos
349 And another one for that ridiculous bleached hair
2005-08-25 21:46:51
353.   Fearing Blue
Baseball Prospectus projected Cesar Izturis for a .261/.304/.353 (.657 OPS) batting line in 2005 based on their PECOTA system. His current batting line is .257/.302/.322 (.624 OPS). Next year's projection will likely be somewhere between the two, which seems reasonable. My optimistic view is that Izturis is a .280/.320/.360 hitter (.680 OPS), but probably not much higher. That's fine for a defensive first shortstop, but it's also not that hard to replace. If there is a performance difference between Izturis and Oscar Robles, it is certainly more than made up for by their salary difference.

There are likely still GMs out there who, like Uncle Miltie, believe Izturis is more like his 2004 self than the rest of his career would indicate. His value is higher while the Gold Glove, All-Star berth, and .711 OPS are in recent memory. I don't expect Izturis to meet or exceed his 2004 performance in the next couple years. There are many players who peak young, just ask Adrian Beltre.

I don't think anyone is arguing to trade Izturis at all costs. But, if the Dodgers can get a reasonable value in return, Izturis seems to be one of our better trade chips. We have both a short term (Oscar Robles) and long term (Chin-lung Hu) option to replace him.

2005-08-25 21:47:20
354.   oldbear
342. Rafael Furcal would be a signifant improvement over Izturis. As would simply playing Robles, and using Izturis salary in another need.

Also, I believe the player's name is Felipe Lopez, who plays for the Reds. Not to be confused with Pedro Feliz.

Are you saying you'd rather have Izturis than Mike Young, Bobby Crosby, Furcal, Peralta, Guillen?

You're nuts man. Those players are so much better offensively that difference in defense is negligible.

Also, Izturis isnt even that good at defense this year. He's middle of the pack in the NL.

2005-08-25 21:48:01
355.   Suffering Bruin
I think we just had an Alyssa Milano sighting...
2005-08-25 21:48:13
356.   Xeifrank
Jose Nakamura Jr., needs to find the pine. Yes, even Repko would be a better option at this point. Sad but true. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:48:36
357.   Suffering Bruin
She did not stand to sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame." Gotta be kewl, I guess...
2005-08-25 21:49:31
358.   Xeifrank
355. We had quite a few interesting sightings in between innings!! Almost as hot as the FBI agent that interviewed me this afternoon. Reminded me of Officer Nasty from Frasier. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:49:55
359.   capdodger
I don't really have a problem with Izturis so long as he bats 8th. Unfortunatly this team seems to have a ton of 8-hole hitters. Some would argue that Tracy would hit him in the leadoff even if he had better hitters available. I would agree with this statement. Furthermore, I would say that many managers around the leauge would bat Izturis at leadoff. I did a little bit of research while away from my desk today at work. I found that, if you look around the leauge, there are a lot of .255 to .290 hitters w/o power batting leadoff.
2005-08-25 21:49:57
360.   Uncle Miltie
348- is he an above average defender? I doubt it. Pedro Feliz? That's pulling names out of a hat...you're looking at SS eligibility in your fantasy league not real shortstops.
2005-08-25 21:50:28
361.   oldbear
This game is going to be a real SOUR one to lose.. Looks like the boys are going to lay down for the rest of the Rox pitchers.
2005-08-25 21:50:35
362.   Xeifrank
Jose x 2 = double the sucktitude.
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:50:39
363.   Strike4
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this already. A real treat is going to Google Earth and tour the major league parks. It's easy to get lost in "I'm there!" daydreams. The technology is stunning, and you can't help but get curious how they put it all together. For instance, there's people watching a Pirates game, while the Oakland Raiders field is well grown in. Why do NY skyscrapers lean in different directions? Petco's not fully constructed. Unfortunately, the Dodger Stadium image is one of the worst quality. Took side trips to the Roman Ruins and Big Ben while I was at it... always wanted to go there too.
2005-08-25 21:51:03
364.   Icaros
357 She's just bummed because Brad pitched like crap.
2005-08-25 21:51:40
365.   Xeifrank
Thank god women's tennis is on ESPN2. If I want to watch a girl swing, I'd rather watch it on ESPN2 than watch one of our Jose's swing. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 21:51:54
366.   Jim Hitchcock
Bob, did you hear? Vinny almost got Quintanilla's name right that time.
2005-08-25 21:52:23
367.   King of the Hobos
360 Pedro Feliz was an accident. I meant Felipe Lopez. I said that, oldbear said that. I'm sorry that I had a mental block. I was not picking names out of a hat
2005-08-25 21:52:26
368.   Suffering Bruin
364 Look, I know I'm behind the times but... Alyssa and Brad Penny? Nah... really??
2005-08-25 21:52:59
369.   oldbear
The Blue have left 10 men on base tonite. Have even had more opportuniities by blowing chances with 3-x counts...

Ouch. Very ugly game tonite, one that almost seems like would be apropo should we lose.

2005-08-25 21:53:54
370.   King of the Hobos
368 Today's SI confirmed that Penny confirmed it. I didn't believe it personally. She really likes pitchers, Pavano, Zito, and now Penny
2005-08-25 21:53:54
371.   Icaros
368 It's supposedly true. She always dates pitchers.
2005-08-25 21:54:19
372.   Bob Timmermann
Last night's game wasn't all that artistic either.
2005-08-25 21:54:47
373.   Uncle Miltie
Rafael Furcal would be a signifant improvement over Izturis. As would simply playing Robles, and using Izturis salary in another need.
No, if you read my post you would see an E next to his name signifying that he will be expensive, think 5 years $40 million. I would not pay him that.
Are you saying you'd rather have Izturis than Mike Young, Bobby Crosby, Furcal, Peralta, Guillen?
When did I say this? I said they are not available. I wanted a list SS that could replace Izturis for the next 3 years. Be realistic. Julio Lugo...and....??

Also, Izturis isnt even that good at defense this year.
Key words- this year. I'm sure that injuries have nothing to do with it.

2005-08-25 21:54:51
374.   oldbear
368. Milano was working on the whole Marlins staff. She's already had Pavano, Beckett, and now Penny.

Guess the D-Train and Burnett would be next in line...

2005-08-25 21:55:03
375.   Icaros
Whatever, King...
2005-08-25 21:55:12
376.   Suffering Bruin
Oscar!
2005-08-25 21:56:22
377.   Bob Timmermann
So for how many minutes will the Dodgers be in second place by themselves?
2005-08-25 21:56:24
378.   molokai
335MB had serious trouble in Montreals minor league system and was suspended several times. Don't know if he had any trouble with his teammates.

320
I was one of the big proponents here for signing Beltre but not with the contract that Seattle gave him. Now in retrospect after one year Beltre has the worse contract in MLB this side of Jason Giambi. Depo gets an A for not giving him that contract.
Not signing Finley should not be just glossed over. Another A
Trading Green while he would have helped this year because of the injuries we would not have Navarro and Green walks after this year. At least a B
I'll take Penny and Choi over LaDuca but that grade should have been for last year and was an excellent trade as we did get some nice production out of Finley who you must always include when talking about that trade. Marlins will be regretting the LaDuca contract in about one year.
Picking DJ Houlton for peanuts. He is the only other rule 5 players contributing to a team other then Sisco. Another B
I hated his contracts for Lowe and OP and still do. Never been a fan of OP and after letting the team down last October I was shocked they brought him back. Lowe is just overpaid as many of last years free agent pitchers have been. At least he's giving us innings which is more then can be said for Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano.
JD Drew - not a fan. Good player, he just does not excite me as a fan. Can't stand vanilla players who play with no emotion. Probably gets paid to much but no question he produces when healthy.
Jose Valentin was an F

My complaint of Depo was having a starting OF with such a history of health problems. He had a nice backup plan in Ledee but it turned out to be not enough.
Very unhappy with his inseason moves this year. He spent way to much time giving at bats to our crappy AAAA players instead of finding real solutions.

In his 1st real year as our GM he's made some great decision and some bad decisions. For me he's at least a C+ or B-. He is going to have a very interesting winter as we have even more questions this year then we did last year.

2005-08-25 21:56:26
379.   Uncle Miltie
367- my mistake, I didn't see that. I'll admit to my mistakes unlike a certain baby cub.
2005-08-25 21:57:56
380.   Icaros
Bob has speculated in the past that Alyssa may just be using Penny to get to his good friend Hee Seop.
2005-08-25 21:57:58
381.   capdodger
363 NYC Skyscrapers seem to lean different dirctions because of the perspective that is caused by the photos being taken from different locations
2005-08-25 21:58:19
382.   alex 7
It's not like King of Hobos is advocating cutting Izturis and replacing him with Robles. He's saying, like some of us, that if you can trade Izturis, the value of what you get is greater than whatever difference you can argue Izturis has over Robles in the next three years.
2005-08-25 21:59:18
383.   King of the Hobos
378 Carvajal would like to disagree with you. Compared to Stern anyways
2005-08-25 21:59:58
384.   Bob Timmermann
At this moment, the Rockies are -146 in runs and the DBacks are -150.

The DBacks look even more messed up than the Dodgers do now.

I suppose the Giants could actually take second place in this division if they weren't so bad too.

2005-08-25 22:00:04
385.   Xeifrank
378. How many games did Drew miss due to non broken bone injuries? vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:00:59
386.   oldbear
Rockies have 5 hits tonite.
Of those: 3 are Home Runs. 1 is a Ground=Rule Double.
2005-08-25 22:01:01
387.   Uncle Miltie
I agree that the Dodgers should trade Izturis if they can get a young SP or young hitter (Brad Wilkerson?). The problem is that won't happen after the season that Izturis has had this year. That's why I'd wait and let him build up his value. You don't make trade for the sake of making trades. Depo will only trade Izturis if he gets a significant piece in return.
2005-08-25 22:01:17
388.   Suffering Bruin
380 Choi's pick-up line: "I used to pitch like Mr. Brad Penny, my friend. My friends all pitchers. I can be pitcher, too."

Smooth talker, Choi is.

2005-08-25 22:01:28
389.   King of the Hobos
Ledee (I can only hope)-Robles-Choi, then Kent-Saenz-Werth should give usa chance to tie this thing up. I especially like the latter 3 against Fuentes.
2005-08-25 22:03:34
390.   Icaros
Just to clarify, my "Whatever, King..." comment was in reference to his beating me to the Alyssa Milano gossip.

I'm in complete agreement with his list of shortstops superior to Izturis.

2005-08-25 22:03:51
391.   Gen3Blue
Yeah-this could hurt. And even more watching these things on the East Coast. If I sound cynical its because I'm a poor suffering bastard D's fan.
2005-08-25 22:03:59
392.   Bob Timmermann
386

And it was a true ground rule double too! The ball getting stuck in the fence is a local ground rule.

2005-08-25 22:04:40
393.   bokonon42
I checked out the Shawn Green site that was plugged, what, six times? It's kind of like what Dodger Blues would be, if Dodger Blues weren't at all funny.
2005-08-25 22:06:16
394.   Icaros
388 I think he should probably just go with the strong, silent foreigner angle.
2005-08-25 22:06:17
395.   Suffering Bruin
393 Ouch. Glad I didn't check that one out.
2005-08-25 22:07:09
396.   oldbear
When Robles get to 3-2 he really needs to foul those off. Another wasted 3-x at bat.
2005-08-25 22:07:23
397.   Suffering Bruin
394 LOL, per usual...

Did you guys catch that last shot of the ad band? Choi's eyes peering down at the plate... a little strange.

2005-08-25 22:07:30
398.   King of the Hobos
I don't think I can handle another 1 run loss to the Rockies. Especially after that Perez blunder
2005-08-25 22:07:37
399.   Uncle Miltie
Who's faster Robles or Choi?
I'm going to have to say Choi.
2005-08-25 22:08:08
400.   bokonon42
395- I know the proper response is to ignore the plug, lest the behavior be encouraged, but curiosity got the better of me. Curiosity is overrated.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-08-25 22:08:24
401.   Fearing Blue
#342: The question should be, "Are there any young shortstops who are contributing better value for the dollar than Cesar Izturis?". The answer to that is clearly yes.

Here are Baseball Prospectus batting and fielding ratings for Izturis:

Batting: -19 BRAA (Batting Runs Above Average)
Fielding: 4 FRAA (Fielding Runs Above Average)
Salary: $2.35 million

Here are the ratings for the shortstops listed:

Michael Young: 18 BRAA, -17 FRAA ($2.5 million)
Bobby Crosby: 14 BRAA, 8 FRAA ($0.75 million)
Jhonny Peralta: 22 BRAA, 13 FRAA ($0.32 million)
Khalil Greene: 1 BRAA, -9 FRAA ($0.36 million)
Russ Adams: 2 BRAA, -13 FRAA ($0.32 million)
Julio Lugo: 9 BRAA, 10 FRAA ($3.25 million)
Carlos Guillen: 6 BRAA, 0 FRAA ($4.00 million)
Rafael Furcal: 7 BRAA, 17 FRAA ($5.60 million)
Jimmy Rollins: -14 BRAA, -4 FRAA ($3.85 million)

And, finally, here is our short term alternative:

Oscar Robles: -3 BRAA, -3 FRAA ($0.32 million)

This is a cumulative stat, so Robles does look relatively better than he would with the same playing time as Izturis. With prorating to Izturis' 100 games and all at shortstop, Robles would look more like -4 BRAA, -8 FRAA.

I do believe Izturis will be a better shortstop than Robles next year. Still, the difference will likely only come down to a few runs over the course of the entire season. If the Dodgers can make a trade that improves us by more than that margin at another position, it would seem in the team's best interest to make it.

2005-08-25 22:08:28
402.   oldbear
I knew this would happen. Saenz/Werth K with the bases juiced, and we havent a baserunner since.

Rockes have retired 8 batters in a row.

2005-08-25 22:09:38
403.   King of the Hobos
Good, I won't have to suffer through a 1 run loss
2005-08-25 22:10:06
404.   Suffering Bruin
With Carrara pitching, time of game has just been extended a half an hour.
2005-08-25 22:11:34
405.   Xeifrank
Lay Down Sally.
2005-08-25 22:12:45
406.   capdodger
397 Was he peering at the plate as if to ask, "was that a strike?" I was in the fridge getting a refreshment.
2005-08-25 22:13:05
407.   Suffering Bruin
I may have been hard on Giovanni. He's working pretty fast here.
2005-08-25 22:14:11
408.   Bob Timmermann
I'm glad I'm not working tomorrow.

And tomorrow's day game isn't all that appealling to me: Florida at Chicago.

Movie time!

2005-08-25 22:14:13
409.   bokonon42
406- It was like The Great Gatsby.
2005-08-25 22:14:54
410.   Icaros
409 Nice one.
2005-08-25 22:15:11
411.   Uncle Miltie
401- fair points because you did research
I do believe Izturis will be a better shortstop than Robles next year
Agree, I don't think there are any better alternatives for next year. He should raise his value next season and then the Dodgers might be able to get something good in return. What oldbear can't understand is that Izturis has probably not already peaked. Oldbear seems to think that 2004 was an aberration for Izturis. He also seems to believe that Izturis' defense is also declining and will continue to decline. He fails to acknowledge that injuries have probably played a part in both his offensive and defensive declines.
2005-08-25 22:17:55
412.   Suffering Bruin
Gatsby. Yet another book this graduate in American Lit & Culture has not read. That, Huckleberry Finn and Scarlett Letter.

I should probably read those books. I guess come September, baseball won't be much of a distraction... (sigh).

2005-08-25 22:18:05
413.   oldbear
Bottom of the 9th. See if the boys have any fight left in them.
2005-08-25 22:18:40
414.   bokonon42
No reason to make it personal. Oldbear certainly isn't the only one who isn't high on Izzy.
2005-08-25 22:19:48
415.   oldbear
411. "Oldbear seems to think that 2004 was an aberration for Izturis. "

Correct.

2005-08-25 22:20:01
416.   Xeifrank
I hope Nori Cruz Jr., doesn't hit this inning. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:20:10
417.   Gen3Blue
Ahh-someone else has nightmares about that Perez blunder!!!
2005-08-25 22:20:31
418.   capdodger
Last of the 9th? Over or under 15 pitches for the ROX will need to get out of the inning? I'm going with under.
2005-08-25 22:21:13
419.   Strike4
Sorry, my mislabeling on Lima era, the prox 4.50 is his last 10 starts. However, it's specious to defend the Dodger rotation and somehow think that Lima at a fraction of their cost is somehow way below their value. Why not have saved the OP money and signed Lima who at least sometimes can get up for big games like tonight's against Schilling and playoffs. Admittedly, not much value in rehashing past g.m. mistakes on this issue, the regulars start ad hominems.
2005-08-25 22:23:21
420.   capdodger
guess come September, baseball won't be much of a distraction... (sigh).

I plan to take up knitting to waste my time.

2005-08-25 22:23:48
421.   Jim Hitchcock
412 - You haven't read Huck Finn??? You are demoted to teaching English as a second language.
2005-08-25 22:24:14
422.   Uncle Miltie
That was a ball
2005-08-25 22:24:33
423.   King of the Hobos
One out. ugh...
2005-08-25 22:24:37
424.   Suffering Bruin
421 Probably be a lot easier for me to get work.
2005-08-25 22:24:45
425.   Icaros
412 You have to read Gatsby and Huck Finn. Scarlett Letter isn't a favorite of mine. Hawthorne's best is the short story, "Young Goodman Brown", IMO.

If you don't read the other two within the next year, though, I may not be able to be your friend anymore.

2005-08-25 22:25:06
426.   Uncle Miltie
The Rockies announcers can't contain their excitement. Nice falling catch.
2005-08-25 22:25:07
427.   bokonon42
419- I don't bet there's one person here who didn't love Lima last year. But he turned in to a pumpkin. It's sad. But it's still true. He's worse than every Dodger starter this year, save Erickson. In retrospect, I'd rather have seen Lima than Erickson, but I'd also rather not have seen either in a Dodger uniform this year.
2005-08-25 22:25:12
428.   Xeifrank
420. I'm going to be in mainland China, hopefully in acceptance by then. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:25:13
429.   oldbear
Nice patience Olmedo. He must want to get to dinner.
2005-08-25 22:25:50
430.   Suffering Bruin
422 If you're talking about the pitch to Kent, it looked good live and on the Tivo, IMHO. Emphasis on "humble" opinion.
2005-08-25 22:27:17
431.   Xeifrank
I'm going on the DL tomorrow too. Going under the knife. I am qualified to be a Dodger outfielder now. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:27:53
432.   capdodger
Pathetic. Just Pathetic. Nothing more to say.
2005-08-25 22:28:04
433.   Suffering Bruin
425 I promise I'll be reading those within the next three months. We'll discuss them on my next trip to NoCal which will be sooner rather than later! I could use some guidance from an actual teacher...

And that's all for me. I feel exactly like the red-headed kid. At least the pitching will be easy this weekend. :(

Been good, folks. See you tomorrow...

2005-08-25 22:28:08
434.   Uncle Miltie
Werth's OPS is now at 724. Is that acceptable for a corner outfielder?
2005-08-25 22:28:10
435.   oldbear
Glad thats over. And now I can be fully into acceptance.

Perfect loss to an imperfect season right there.

Bad hitting. Bad starting pitching. Brain dead execution. LOB's. No power hitting...
Guys giving away at bats early in the game...

Yep.

2005-08-25 22:28:32
436.   King of the Hobos
And the DBacks were handing us 2nd. A second straight 1 run loss, although who knows what happens if Perez doesn't make that blunder. Our luck has been horrible. I'll be rooting for the Blue, especially Edwin, but this next series figures to be what finally destroys the Dodgers season.
2005-08-25 22:28:44
437.   Suffering Bruin
431 Good luck tomorrow. Come back healthy...
2005-08-25 22:28:53
438.   Dodgersrock24
No comment. I'm just embarrassed.
2005-08-25 22:28:56
439.   Gen3Blue
Hockeys back--Go Bruins!!
2005-08-25 22:29:44
440.   Icaros
Werth's OPS is now at 724. Is that acceptable for a corner outfielder?

Nope.

2005-08-25 22:30:19
441.   Xeifrank
434. What's CruzJr's OPS? What is Valentin's OPS? What are our other options? Too many injuries. Not much you can do. This team just isn't very good. Could easily find ourselves 10 games out pretty soon. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:30:31
442.   oldbear
434. Nope. Thats why hopefully Giles is signed or Dunn is traded for.
2005-08-25 22:30:59
443.   Icaros
433 - Look forward to it, but I'm a former actual teacher now.
2005-08-25 22:30:59
444.   Dodgersrock24
Since our season is like 80% finished. Maybe we should call up some guys from the minors who actually want to play Baseball.
2005-08-25 22:31:29
445.   King of the Hobos
425 Guess I don't appreciate great works, Young Goodman Brown wasn't especially great to me. Never read the Scarlet Letter, but I have read the Great Gatsby and Huck Finn, both good books
2005-08-25 22:31:50
446.   Dodgersrock24
439. That's right. Go Kings
2005-08-25 22:32:20
447.   Xeifrank
444. Like who? Grabowski? Erickson? We don't want to start the clock on the good minor leaguers. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:33:41
448.   Fearing Blue
#434: No. Though I'm sure you knew the answer when you asked the question. The Dodgers should go all out to sign Giles or Matsui in the offseason. An outfield of Giles / Matsui, Bradley, and Drew would likely mean Werth gets a lot of playing time as the 4th outfielder and Ledee as the 5th.
2005-08-25 22:34:40
449.   Icaros
445 I never liked YGB until a particularly great teacher, in one of the most moving classroom experiences of my life, showed me that the story was written about me, so to speak.
2005-08-25 22:34:49
450.   Fearing Blue
#431: Good luck with your surgery Xeifrank. I hope the Dodgers training staff isn't quoting your rehab figures.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-08-25 22:35:37
451.   Xeifrank
Since this is my first year at DT, I was wondering what happens during the offseason?
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:35:46
452.   Dodgersrock24
I just took my blood pressure, and it's high. It's probably high because I'm so stressed from the Dodgers losing 2 out 3 against the worst road team in Baseball.
2005-08-25 22:35:58
453.   Bob Timmermann
444

The season is actually 78.3% finished.

2005-08-25 22:38:04
454.   Xeifrank
450. Thanks. I am getting my sinus worked on due to a bad dentist I had a few months ago. Nothing life threatening, but gonna be pretty uncomfortable for a while. Looks like the 15 Day DL, not sure if it will be retroactive or not. Grabowski can take my spot on the DT roster. vr, Xei
2005-08-25 22:38:34
455.   Bob Timmermann
451

We spend the entire offseason staring blankly in to space.

2005-08-25 22:38:46
456.   Icaros
Since this is my first year at DT, I was wondering what happens during the offseason?

Lots of drama.

2005-08-25 22:40:26
457.   Icaros
452 Just keep telling yourself that everything is dust in the wind, and none of it will matter when you are dead.
2005-08-25 22:40:58
458.   Dodgersrock24
447. Not those guys, Maybe give Guzman or Young a chance to play.
2005-08-25 22:41:54
459.   Icaros
An outfield of Giles / Matsui, Bradley, and Drew would likely mean Werth gets a lot of playing time as the 4th outfielder and Ledee as the 5th.

Wait a minute, where does Repko fit into that equation?

2005-08-25 22:42:23
460.   Jon Weisman
451 - I hardly take a day off DT in the offseason; seems there's always plenty to talk about.
2005-08-25 22:43:04
461.   Jim Hitchcock
451 - We talk about TV alot. You're gonna love it!
2005-08-25 22:43:17
462.   Dodgersrock24
453. What I mean is that since were 6 1/2 games back. We have a 20% chance winning the division.
2005-08-25 22:44:05
463.   Icaros
I hardly take a day off DT in the offseason

You're just like Paul DePodesta.

2005-08-25 22:44:37
464.   King of the Hobos
Can we just skip the month of Novmber? No baseball, no offseason moves. I guess we could keep the weekends for football and Thanksgiving, but the rest is largely unimportant. Then we wouldn't have problems finding a topic
2005-08-25 22:45:03
465.   Icaros
We have a 20% chance winning the division.

I'd guess it's lower than that.

2005-08-25 22:45:05
466.   Dodgersrock24
459. According to what I heard is that Bradley has 50-50 chance returning to the Dodgers next year.
2005-08-25 22:45:29
467.   Dodgersrock24
465. Ya I say so.
2005-08-25 22:45:59
468.   Icaros
464 Hey, don't try to cheat me out of my birthday!
2005-08-25 22:47:57
469.   Jim Hitchcock
468 - Or Jons. Nov. 26th, I believe.
2005-08-25 22:48:59
470.   Icaros
Or Jons. Nov. 26th, I believe.

Jons the supermarket?

2005-08-25 22:49:05
471.   Jon Weisman
468 - Mine either.
2005-08-25 22:49:40
472.   capdodger
461 Oh no!! I don't watch TV. It's on, but I'm rarely paying it any mind.
2005-08-25 22:50:44
473.   Uncle Miltie
448- my point is, there seems to be a double standard here regarding the play of Izturis and say a guy like Werth, who is not even an average hitter for a corner outfielder and isn't a great defender either. LF has been a huge hole for the Dodgers all year. Werth is trying out for a job next year and he's failing miserably. Matsui would be great, but he'll probably stay with the Yankees. Giles would be nice, but I wouldn't give him more than 2-3 years. There's not much out there on the FA market. Depo will likely make a trade. Brad Wilkerson (I know he's having an off year).
2005-08-25 22:50:47
474.   Jim Hitchcock
470 - Okay, Jon's. Dadburn former teacher, you!
2005-08-25 22:52:38
475.   Icaros
474 - Thanks :-)
2005-08-25 22:53:09
476.   Jim Hitchcock
472 - I was teasing Xeifrank for his `boring' crack yesterday :)
2005-08-25 22:55:29
477.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger Thoughts topic for Dec. 18:

"Supertrain" or "Love Boat"? Which character offered more entertainment: George Boone or Gopher Smith?

2005-08-25 22:56:09
478.   Icaros
Wow, I've never even heard of Supertrain.
2005-08-25 22:57:57
479.   Dodgersrock24
Who are going to be the key Free Agents this year.
2005-08-25 23:03:09
480.   Bob Timmermann
478

And you call yourself a teacher!

2005-08-25 23:03:48
481.   King of the Hobos
479 AJ Burnett, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Millwood, Kenny Rogers, Jarrod Washbrn, Billy Wagner, BJ Ryan, Trevor Hoffman, Paul Konerko, Nomar Garciaparra, Brian Giles, Hedeki Matsui (weird clause that gives the Yanks exclusive rights uuntil some date), Rafael Furcal, Bill Mueller, Johnny Damon, Jacque Jones, and Matt Lawton. There are numerous decent relievers including Farnsworth, Urbina, and Tavares available, it's easily the deepest market

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagent.html

2005-08-25 23:05:17
482.   Louis in SF
I just read the Dodger story of the call-up of Edwards and Bradley going on the DL and Ken Gurnick (sp) said "many Dodger teamates" don't expect Bradley to ever wear a Dodger uniform again. Outside of speculation have any players besides Kent called him out!......Losing 2-3 at home to the rockies is absolutely ridiculous, but in a certain way it maybe the best thing for this year. By next week the season will be over-the Padre lead although not offically large enough to seal the deal is probably a more sure thing this year than at any other time. So lets bring up the kids and teach them what it is like to play against the Giants when we are playing for bragging rights, make SD sweat and see if we can get past the D-Backs
2005-08-25 23:07:06
483.   Jeromy
Just logged on. I know I'm late for the fireworks. Oh wait. No fireworks tonight. 452 said it best. I don't think I've felt so low about the Dodgers this season until now when a sweep of the lowly Rockies at home would have kept the team in contention, a series loss has the team stumbling into a black hole.

Did anyone else notice what seemed to be a lackluster effort tonight? This doesn't seem like the team is playing with any passion right now. Clubhouse controversy; good pitching/poor hitting; poor pitching/o.k. hitting. This is a team that is out of sync and with no spark. The word "implosion" comes to mind.

2005-08-25 23:08:02
484.   Xeifrank
476. Yeah, that thread was a real yawner for me that day. With you guys talking old TV shows and Steve on vacation, I was having difficulty getting my Dodger fix. :)
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 23:08:27
485.   Icaros
480

Former teacher, damnit!

I'm now free of all responsibility.

2005-08-25 23:10:40
486.   Bob Timmermann
Many good teachers in my day incorporated storylines from "Supertrain" into lesson plans.

It was how we learned in those days.

2005-08-25 23:12:34
487.   molokai
473I think most of us are not happy with Werth. We should be unhappy with all of our outfielders. I know I am. Wilkerson would be a nice move. Should come cheap since he's had the down year even taking into account the RFK park effects. On the surface it looks like his power is down but he is one of the leaders in doubles so his elbow trouble may be contributing to his lack of home run power. I'd rather have a young Wilkerson then an old Giles because Wilkerson could very will have a Giles like career.
2005-08-25 23:13:53
488.   popup
#477, Gopher Smith. Good baseball name. There was a pitcher for the Cubs in the 30's whose nickname was Line Drive; Line Drive Nelson. Boom Boom Beck pitched for Brooklyn at about the same time. Boom Boom got his nickname because the fences in those days were made out of wood or corrogated metal. The first boom was the sound of the baseball hitting the bat and the second boom was the ball hitting the fence.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-08-25 23:15:16
489.   Xeifrank
486. I wrote a college english paper about Jim Morrison and his lyrics. My teacher was a hippie back in the day, so it was the perfect brown-nose topic to write about. I think some of the drugs hadn't worn off from the 60s on her. Probably one of the best teachers I ever had, since I was a terrible writer at the time. Of course the next year she was fired, due to not having tenure or some b.s. Big Universities unfortunately care more about research and making money than they do about good teachers and undergrad students learning.
vr, Xei
2005-08-25 23:19:57
490.   Jon Weisman
Some new overnight reading up top for you insomniacs ...
2005-08-25 23:50:46
491.   Jim Hitchcock
489 - Danny Sugarman, the Doors manager who wrote `Nobody Gets out of Here Alive, was a classmate of mine.

I googled his name after I read XF's post, only to find out he had just died of lung cancer. Damn.

2005-08-26 00:15:42
492.   bokonon42
The inevitable Plaschke column on Bradley v. Kent. McCourt granted him an interview.

http://tinyurl.com/9ekvx

2005-08-26 00:52:24
493.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Plaschke, as Pretentious As Ever!
2005-08-26 01:01:56
494.   bokonon42
The key thing here will be whether Bradley can recover from having Plaschke question his character. I'm sure I'd commit suicide if he ever questioned mine. Also, I wonder if the team PR firm really said that declaring the black guy a bad person was the way to go, here. I mean, I can't guess how that could turn out bad.

I'd sure like to see a transcript of the interview. Maybe Plaschke isn't completely full of crap. But, you know, I'd just like to see. None of the honest-to-Choi quotes are nearly so strong as the piece's tone. If McCourt really does intend to veto character deficient players, Choi help us all.

2005-08-26 01:10:52
495.   Bob Timmermann
Was anyone interested in the "character" issue until Bradley blew up?

Most fans were just disappointed that the team was playing poorly.

Were we all in love with the winning personality of Shawn Green? Didn't we like Adrian Beltre because he hit 48 home runs? We liked Steve Finley because he hit a home run to beat the Giants. We liked Jose Lima because he won a playoff game. We liked Eric Gagne because he got lots of saves and struck out a lot of people.

So if Bradley had been jettisoned at the end of the 2004 season and the Dodgers had Steve Finley batting .220 all year, we'd all be happier?

Really?

Really?

What sort of thinking is that?

Did you know that "Lo Duca" is Italian for "epitome of all that is right" and Bradley is an English word meaning "evil man who must be exiled"?

When Leo Durocher talked about nice guys being in seventh place (he didn't say last), he was managing the Dodgers at the time.

2005-08-26 05:54:33
496.   Fearing Blue
#474: How about we trade Izturis for an above average corner outfielder? I'm a huge fan of killing two birds with one stone :).

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