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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Today's Bright Spot: Dioner Navarro
2005-08-26 09:48
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

A .393 on-base percentage? It continues to be a promising start.

The 21 steals allowed in 22 games, we'll wait and see about.

Comments (336)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-26 09:58:19
1.   Bob Timmermann
Hmm, the page is all funny because the lines are so short. Go figure.

I'll probably be leaving early today and will miss tonight's game so stay tuned to this thread for today's RDGC!

2005-08-26 09:58:47
2.   Bob Timmermann
2005-08-26 10:07:51
3.   Jon Weisman
Yeah, that is weird. I'm not sure why that's happening.
2005-08-26 10:08:19
4.   Kayaker7
He threw out a runner the other night, but the tag was off. But still, not a great percentage.
2005-08-26 10:09:16
5.   Bob Timmermann
I need to write some non-Plaschkean paragraphs. Perhaps longer line lengths will force this frame over to the side.
2005-08-26 10:10:15
6.   Nick from Washington Heights
My beloved Yanks gave up a lot in that Big Unit trade. It's tough to read about Navarro given Posada's difficulties this year.
2005-08-26 10:11:46
7.   Warren
Dunno where to find them but I'd be interested to see the stats on how many people stole off Lowe, Penny, Weaver, Perez, and Houlton prior to them pitching for the Dodgers. Obviously some of this is due to the pitchers not holding runners and having slow deliveries. But to quantify that would be interesting to see.
2005-08-26 10:14:05
8.   rageon
I've been in the "Navarro is overrated" camp long before he came to the Dodgers, as I'm not sure he will ever hit for enough power to be useful. That said, with Martin in the minors, Navarro could make a very nice backup catcher.
2005-08-26 10:17:17
9.   SMY
A lot is made of baserunners knowing when to steal on certain pitchers and catchers as it relates to timing, etc. I wonder if the same is true of catchers. Navarro had a good defensive reputation in the minors, did he not? It may be a function of inexperience. I should look into other catchers' CS% early in their careers.
2005-08-26 10:30:57
10.   db1022
8 - Unfortunately, if you feel that Navarro is overrated due to a lack of power, then I'm not sure how satisfied you'll be with Martin.

Best case is he'll be in the .400 OBP range, minimal power and good defense. Kinda sounds like what what we're getting from Navarro.

2005-08-26 10:32:42
11.   Xeifrank
Bob jinxed us on wednesday, have we found out who jinxed us last night? And who is going to jinx us tonight? vr, Xei
2005-08-26 10:35:37
12.   Jon Weisman
Paul Lo Duca's career OBP is .343 and slugging is .420, and his stolen base record is not Phillipsian, but not very good either. Right now, I'm hopeful that Navarro can match that performance in the near future, if not the immediate future.
2005-08-26 10:35:38
13.   Bob Timmermann
I'm suspecting that Derek Lowe will be the jinx.
2005-08-26 10:37:50
14.   Bob Timmermann
From the Arizona Republic:
Little relief
With the Diamondbacks taking a 6.24 ERA into Thursday night, here are the five worst bullpens since 1960, according to David W. Smith of Retrosheet:

1. Detroit Tigers 1996 5.97
2. Seattle Mariners 1999 5.94
3. Kansas City Royals 1999 5.77
4. Colorado Rockies 1999 5.72
5. Philadelphia Phillies 2000 5.72

The same story says the alltime worst bullpen record is 6.62 by the 1950 Browns.

2005-08-26 11:09:58
15.   rageon
12 Well, LoDuca is also vastly overrated. Primarily due to having Reverse Albert Belle Disease. No, not the attitude part, but the 1st half / 2nd half splits. Guys who start hot and finish weak are often perceived as better hitters because of the inflated stat lines to start the year as opposed to guys who start slowly and gradually get better as the year goes on.

10 If Navarro keeps his OBP at .390, rather than .350, which is where I expect it to be, I'll stop mentioning his lack of power. Martin, on the other hand, is someone who I actually think might be able to maintain a near .400 OBP.

2005-08-26 12:02:25
16.   Robert Fiore
I've been collecting Dodger media guides in a casual way, and I was wondering if anyone here knows how far back they go. The earliest one I've seen on sale is 1965, and I imagine the team was issuing them before that. The earliest one I have (1973) was a modest affair compared to the modern day behemoths (about 60 pages as opposed to what, 200-300?), and I assume the ones from the 60s were even smaller than that.
2005-08-26 12:03:54
17.   Steelyeri
If Navarro becomes a .280/.390/.420 type hitter, that would be great. I don't think that expecting a .390 OBP or better is out of the question, he has a good eye from what i've seen.I am very impressed by his defense as well. I love the way he blocks the plate. Twice he has had perfect location with his foot and the runner was never able to touch the plate. It also looks like the pitchers are impressed with his poise and the way he calls the game. Overall, I agree with jon, promising start.
2005-08-26 12:08:51
18.   Bob Timmermann
I imagine that the Amateur Athletic Foundation of Los Angeles Library has every L.A. Dodger media guide dating back to 1958.

You can call them at (323) 730-4646 or email them at

They have a great staff and really know their stuff.

2005-08-26 12:09:45
19.   Jon Weisman
15 - I think LoDuca has been overrated in the zeitgeist but he's still a top-tier catcher and an asset to a lineup at that position. At a six-figure salary, who would complain about that kind of production?

This has nothing to do with what Martin might do - this is just about Navarro.

2005-08-26 12:29:26
20.   Telemachos
For a rookie, I think Navarro has generally shown remarkable poise. Given the epidemic of stolen bases against the Dodgers this year, while he has to share the blame, the bulk should go (IMHO) to the pitchers. I'm not sure how much can be addressed in mid-season, but I would hope that they are working (or will work on) faster deliveries, slide-steps, paying more attention to runners on base, etc.
2005-08-26 12:38:25
21.   oldbear
Navarro walks a ton and has gap power. He isnt going to hit HR's, but he's got a nice stroke at the plate.

And isnt OBP worth 3x what SLG is? If you have a guy that OBP's 400, he needs to be batting 2nd or 1st.

2005-08-26 12:55:32
22.   Jon Weisman
Just for the heck of it (assuming Bradley isn't back in 2006, and before the prospects come in) ...

1. R Perez (SS or 3B)
2. L Drew (CF)
3. R Kent (2B)
4. L Matsui (LF)
5. S Navarro (C)
6. L Choi (1B)
7. R/L Werth/Ledee (RF)
8. L/S Robles/Izturis (3B or SS)
9. (P)

2005-08-26 12:57:28
23.   Bob Timmermann
It's a little early today, but here you go...

Random Dodger game callback

August 26, 1981

Two teams with much different agendas and attitudes squared off before a crowd of a little over 11,000 at the Three Rivers Stadium. And it was the playoff-bound Los Angeles Dodgers who crushed the Pittsburgh Pirates 16-6, thanks to a seven-run second inning and a six-run sixth inning. The Dodgers were now 10-6 in the second half of the strike-interrupted season, but they already had the first half title in the bag. The Dodgers trailed Atlanta by a half game. Overall the Dodgers were 46-27, 3 games better than Cincinnati.

The game matched up two pitchers who were traded for each other. The Dodgers started Jerry Reuss and the Pirates started Rick Rhoden. And Reuss stumbled in the first inning, giving up three runs on an RBI double by Bill Madlock and a 2-run single by Dale Berra.

But the Dodgers started to hit their former teammate in the second. Ron Cey led off with a single and Pedro Guerrero singled him to second. Mike Scioscia doubled to right to score Cey. Bill Russell and Reuss made outs, but Steve Sax, filling in for the injured Davey Lopes, singled to score Guerrero. Then Rhoden balked home Scioscia and sent Sax to second. Then Rhoden walked Derrel Thomas and Rick Monday to load the bases. Steve Garvey then cleared the bases with a double. Cey singled home Garvey for the seventh run of the inning.

Reuss gave back two runs in the third when he gave up back-to-back home runs to Berra and Bill Robinson. After five innings, manager Tommy Lasorda decided to pull Reuss.

In the sixth, Jay Johnstone pinch hit for Reuss and doubled, but was erased at third when he tried to move up on a Steve Sax grounder. Thomas lined out and Rhoden was almost out of the inning. But he walked Monday. Then Garvey singled home Sax. And Cey followed with a single to score Monday. Finally, after 126 pitches, Pirates manager Chuck Tanner pulled Rhoden in favor of Don Robinson. But it got worse, Guerrero walked. Then Scioscia doubled to drive in two runs. Russell then tripled in two more to make it 13-5. Rhoden was charged with 11 of the runs.

Alejandro Pena and Steve Howe pitched the final four innings to finish out the win. The only blemish was a home run by Jason Thompson off of Pena. The World Series champions of just two years ago, fell to last place in the NL East at 6-11 and were 31-34 overall.

Dodger fans will remember 1981 for the birth of Fernandomania. With Reuss unable to pitch on Opening Day, Valenzuela got the start and pitched a complete game 5-hit shutout against the Astros. Valenzuela would throw five shutouts among his first seven starts. He also won his first 8 starts, until the Phillies beat him on May 18. Valenzuela would finish the abbreviated season with a 13-7 record, a 2.48 ERA, a league-high 180 strikeouts and 8 shutouts. Valenzuela would win both the Cy Young Award and the Rookie of the Year. And the fans at Dodger Stadium turned out in droves.
With the first half playoff spot in the bag, Lasorda, although he did not admit it in the media, rested many of his regulars. The Dodgers finished the second half 27-26 and six games behind second half winner Houston. Overall the Dodgers were 63-47, which was four games worse than Cincinnati, who, as a reward for having the best record in the majors, stayed home for the postseason.

The 1981 postseason was one of the most exciting in team history. The Dodgers lost two close games in the Division Series in Houston with Dave Stewart losing both games. The Dodgers lost the opener 3-1 on a walkoff homer by Alan Ashby and then won the second game 1-0 in 11 innings.

When the Division Series returned to Los Angeles, a different Dodgers team showed up. In Game 3, the Dodgers won 6-1 behind a strong pitching performance from Burt Hooton. In Game 4, a Pedro Guerrero homer and a Bill Russell RBI single were enough for Valenzuela to edge past Vern Ruhle, 2-1. And in Game 5, the Dodgers comeback was complete as Reuss threw a shutout and the Dodgers beat Nolan Ryan, 4-0.

The NLCS brought on the Montreal Expos. The series opened in L.A. In Game 1, Cey, returning from an arm injury, went 2 for 4, to power the Dodgers to a 5-1 win. But in Game 2, journeyman Ray Burris shut out the Dodgers, 3-0 as the Expos handled Valenzuela.

The scene changed to Montreal. In Game 3, Reuss gave up a 3-run homer to Jerry White and the Expos won 4-1. Facing elimination in Game 4, the Dodgers scored twice in the 8th and four times in the 9th to win 7-1. And Game 5 was a classic, with Monday homering in the 9th off of Steve Rogers, and Bob Welch coming in to relieve for Valenzuela in the 9th to send the Dodgers to the World Series. Monday's celebratory run around the bases would also mark the last time he would ever tell Dodgers fans in a clear manner what was happening in a baseball game.

With no rest before the World Series started, the Dodgers lost the first two games to the Yankees in New York. But the Dodgers came back to win three straight in Los Angeles. Valenzuela won a shaky Game 3, 5-4. In Game 4, the Dodgers survived a rough start by Welch to come from behind to beat the Yankees 8-7. In Game 5, Guerrero and Yeager hit back-to-back homers in the seventh for a 2-1 win.

And after a day of rain, the series resumed in New York. In the fourth inning, with the game tied 1-1, Yankees manager Bob Lemon opted to pinch-hit for starter Tommy John. The Dodgers scored three times in the fifth against reliever George Frazier, to hand him his third loss of the series and the Dodgers their first championship since 1965.

1981 was a bittersweet championship. The players strike left a bitter taste for many fans. But there was also the highlight of seeing Fernando Valenzuela baffle the National League. But also it was the last year of the Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield. Lopes was limited to 58 games and in the off-season he was traded to Oakland. A new of generation of heroes would be needed. In many ways, they've never arrived.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, and Retrosheet

2005-08-26 13:01:42
24.   King of the Hobos
11 Pettitte vs Lowe, we need to be jinxed? Maybe we can somehow jinx the Astros, anyone here actually an Astros fan in disguise?

As for Navarro, it's extremely nice to see him do so well. As for throwing out runners, it seemed he had a mechanical flaw at first, sending the ball to RF. He's done better lately, in my opinion. The pitchers still aren't helping, and there's cases like yesterday when Robles just didn't tag the runner despite a good throw

2005-08-26 13:06:32
25.   Brendan
Ahh, 1981. Thanks, Bob. after the heartbreaks of 77-78, 81 was the best. I was 12 at the time. Good times.
2005-08-26 13:13:48
26.   still bevens
In light of all this recent upheaval, is anyone expecting any trades in the next 5 days?
2005-08-26 13:18:02
27.   Brendan

I've read that SF has been very aggressive in claiming players off the waiver wire in order to block trades to the Padres, AZ and LA so I don't think we will see much happen with SF thinking they are still in this title chase.

2005-08-26 13:24:26
28.   fanerman
Maybe we should sign Nomar to play 3B. He's playing 3B today for the Cubs.
2005-08-26 13:24:47
29.   Icaros
22 Jon, I'm torn between Giles and Matsui as fantasy new outfielder.

Care to explain why you chose Godzilla?

2005-08-26 13:28:09
30.   still bevens
No Damon?
2005-08-26 13:34:33
31.   Icaros
30 I want someone with power than Damon. Giles has more power (especially if you get him out of San Diego) and a .412 career OBP.

Plus, I'd rather get a RF so Drew can get his wish and move to center.

I think Damon will be really overpriced and will probably stay in Boston since he has become Jesus over there.

2005-08-26 13:34:44
32.   GoBears
27 SF doesn't need to believe it's in the race to behave this way. I would think that a close 2nd-best outcome for Giants fans would be for Sabean to do what he can to make sure the Dodgers don't win the division. In that case, I guess he'd only be blocking trades to LA, but he wouldn't necessarily know - the hoped-for trade destination of waived players isn't necessarily public knowledge. He might just block anyone he thinks would help the Dodgers.

Of course, given Sabean's notions of quality, he'd only be blocking old, expe

2005-08-26 13:38:21
33.   Jon Weisman
29, 30, 31 - I gave the outside acquisition much less thought than you imagine. I was just trying to see what one outside player would do to the lineup, once healthy.
2005-08-26 13:43:11
34.   GoBears
Since we're dreaming (I can't believe George will let Matsui go, given his quality and the lack of options, esp. if they want to part ways with Sheffield), I'd take Matsui over Giles. Mostly because he's younger (31). Giles (34) has had a resurgence this year after a down year, but he's due for the career-ending slide. I wouldn't want him for more than a year or two at the most. Giles is of course much better away from PETCO, but the major difference is doubles (23 away, 10 home), which DS suppresses, so I'm not sure he'd be better as a Dodger than as a Padre.

I've also heard that Giles is interested in Atlanta, to play with his brother (and for a better team), tho I can't imagine why Atlanta would prefer him over one of their young studs OFers. And he's too short to play 1b.

2005-08-26 13:49:31
35.   Icaros
34 That's weird that he only has 10 doubles at Petco. Seems like that place would be pretty conducive to them, what with the cavernous outfield.

But Dave Roberts only has 5 doubles at home compared to 11 on the road, so it seems that there must be something to it.

What's with that place?

2005-08-26 13:57:25
36.   Howard Fox
35 I think, now I could be wrong, but they call it a pitchers' park
2005-08-26 13:57:40
37.   Jon Weisman
Aside: against lefties this year, Navarro is 2 for 5 with 7 walks. They are so afraid of him!
2005-08-26 14:01:11
38.   rageon
30 & 31 - I have a feeling that 5 years from now, people will be talking about how the Johnny Damon signing of 2005-06 offseason was one of the worst contracts handed out over the past few years. I think if you had to make a list of 10 things to remember for free agent signings, it would be to avoid giving long contracts to old players who rely on their speed.
2005-08-26 14:03:34
39.   DaveP
What percentage of base runners did Navarro throw out in Vegas this year? I had that stat previously, but now can't find it on the LV51's site.

Martin has thrown out .282 for Jacksonville.

Billingsley doesn't seem to hold runners, given that Suns catchers are at .158 when he's on the mound. Guess that means Bills is ready for the big club :)

2005-08-26 14:08:07
40.   was it tims mitt i saw
Jon, you'd take choi out of the number 2 slot?

Bob, always love your posts

2005-08-26 14:10:56
41.   the OZ
I like Matsui, too. I can't imagine that he'd want to stay with the Yankees, especially if they miss the playoffs.

If this season wasn't such a train wreck, I'd think that LA would be a pretty desirable option for him.

2005-08-26 14:18:22
42.   Jon Weisman
40 Well, I like to alternate left-right, so that you don't get caught against a LOOGY late in the game, and I couldn't see dropping Drew lower. I'm not convinced that Choi's ultimate success depends on him batting second.
2005-08-26 14:21:19
43.   Howard Fox
Actually, Choi's ultimate success may depend on who the manager is...
2005-08-26 14:29:30
44.   fanerman
43 - Have to agree with that.

Speaking of Choi, why has he been playing so often lately? I wish he had some success, though. I get the feeling he just needs to be comfortable doing ONE thing. He struggled forever as a pinch-hitter, then we kept him there and he started to have success. If we can keep him at 1B enough for him to not worry about if his playing time is on the line, maybe he'll be better. Of course, I have no idea what he's thinking so that may be totally off.

2005-08-26 14:34:59
45.   still bevens

I'm starting to think Tracy himself is moving into 'acceptance' territory, thus all the Choi starts.

However, I don't really understand why Phillips hasnt played in almost a whole week!

2005-08-26 14:36:33
46.   db1022
22 - Navarro in the 5-spot seems a bit of a stretch, especially with Choi and Werth/Ledee behind him. Is it the switch-hitter in him?

What about Jose Cruz? Anyone thinking he'll be in Blue next year?

2005-08-26 14:37:17
47.   Jon Weisman
44 - "I wish he had some success, though."

Choi is OPSing 1.010 in the past week, .925 in August, .911 since the All-Star Break, .808 overall.

Wish granted.

2005-08-26 14:38:11
48.   Howard Fox
45 because Tracy falls into and out of love with players, and that is how he prepares his lineups

he may talk about matchups and stats and such, but it is simply who is in favor at the moment

2005-08-26 14:38:12
49.   db1022
Has Tracy commented much on the Kent/Bradley thing?

Seems like most of the bites have been coming from Depo and McCourt, but it should be in Tracy's domain.

2005-08-26 14:38:49
50.   DaveP
44, 47 - I was going to comment on the same thing. Even if you only look at the last few games when he got a few starts in a row:

last 6 days (15 at bats): .333 avg, .476 obp, .533 slg and 2 RBI

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-26 14:39:08
51.   Howard Fox
47 yes, but how is he in the chemistry department?
2005-08-26 14:39:59
52.   still bevens

I doubt Cruz will be back. However, with the Bradley injury, this pick up by DePo seems to be somewhat less insane in hindsight.

2005-08-26 14:40:16
53.   Howard Fox
49 I am not a Tracy supporter, far from it...but the way he has handled things so far earns my respect
2005-08-26 14:40:27
54.   GoBears
This from CBS Sportsline's Rumor Mill:

SS Rafael Furcal's brilliant performance since late June has increased the likelihood that he'll be deemed unaffordable by Braves officials this winter when he's eligible for free agency, says the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

So if the Braves need a new SS, they have PLENTY we could use in return for Izzy.

2005-08-26 14:43:01
55.   GoBears
52 Given that Cruz jr cost us basically nothing, except some starts by Repko (bonus!), at no point did I think it an insane move. Far from it. DePo gave Tracy a better spare part than he had, and little to no cost.
2005-08-26 14:44:00
56.   GoBears
Uh, that should be "AT little to no cost"
2005-08-26 14:44:30
57.   Howard Fox
Cruz got a change in scenery, he is playing regularly...we expect nothing from him because of his performance so far this year...who knows, he may surprise us all...he has definitely done well in the past
2005-08-26 14:46:31
58.   still bevens
He just needs to start producing at home and I'll lay off of him for a bit..
2005-08-26 14:46:51
59.   Howard Fox
58 that is between him and his wife
2005-08-26 14:47:45
60.   still bevens
2005-08-26 14:48:56
61.   db1022
55 - I liked him, and when AZ cut him loose I thought it would be a good pickup. I wasn't quite sure how the AZ to LA relationship would work (though why wouldn't AZ want Cruz on the Dodgers if they were releasing him).

I was pleasantly surprised to see him come around to us. If Ledee or Werth is moved this offseason (and Milton stays) I'd like to see him stay on moreso than a Repko/Grabs/Edwards.

2005-08-26 14:49:42
62.   Howard Fox
22 by the way, I like Navarro batting 5th, he seems to be a contact hitter with a good eye...

personally I like a lot of hitters in my lineup who make contact, who get on base, and who can keep a rally going...home runs are a bonus, but making contact definitely increases your chances of getting a hit

2005-08-26 14:52:51
63.   Howard Fox
I, for one, like Repko. He hustles all the time. When he played regularly for a time, he started hitting. I wouldn't mind Repko in my everyday lineup if I had two veterans around him, maybe Drew and Matsui or whomever (assuming Bradley is gone)
2005-08-26 14:53:51
64.   Telemachos
If the Dodgers keep Bradley for next year, what about picking up a veteran African-American player during the off-season (assuming any are available and fit Depo's criteria and team needs)... seems that if Bradley had someone who could mentor him in a leadership role -- particularly if they shared a common heritage/background, that it might really help.
2005-08-26 14:56:02
65.   Linkmeister
23 "Monday's celebratory run around the bases would also mark the last time he would ever tell Dodgers fans in a clear manner what was happening in a baseball game."

Good thing I'm drinking water at the keyboard.

2005-08-26 15:00:34
66.   Jon Weisman
65 - Yeah, that was a good line.
2005-08-26 15:00:49
67.   King of the Hobos
64 Jacque Jones might be an improvement in LF, but there are other more desirable options. Although he has had for more plate discipline this year. The African American FA market is just about as weak as the normal FA market
2005-08-26 15:03:05
68.   Howard Fox
67 The African American FA market is just about as weak as the normal FA market

Milton Bradley would love this comment

2005-08-26 15:03:41
69.   GoBears
63 I wouldn't mind Repko in my everyday lineup if I had two veterans around him

Boy, I sure would. I think that Repko's absolute ceiling is as a non-embarrassing 4th or 5th OFer. Nothing against the guy's attitude, but he's just not that skilled. He could still improve with age, but unless he learns how to play the OF (and not just make up for mistakes with speed) AND is surrounded by mashers at the corners, no way I want him starting.

2005-08-26 15:05:25
70.   Howard Fox
69 he just reminds me of Ryan Freel, the way he goes about playing
2005-08-26 15:11:29
71.   Kayaker7
62 I was just reading your last comment that you like hitters who make a lot of contact and gets on base. With the exception of outstanding hitters like Vlad and Pujols, it seems like the ability to make contact and the ability to get on base are mutually exclusive. Am I missing something?
2005-08-26 15:18:26
72.   GoBears
71 Well, with rare exceptions (Gywwn, Boggs, Ichiro), "making contact" usually just means lots of outs. Not strikeouts, but most of the time, it doesn't matter. If you're really in a position where a "productive out" is all you need (late, close game, runner already in scoring position, less than 2 outs, no GiDP possibility), then maybe a guy who makes contact is better.
2005-08-26 15:19:33
73.   the OZ
I was interested to learn that Cruz, Jr.'s VORP rate is higher than:

Nick Swisher
Aubrey Huff
Garret Anderson
Mark Kotsay
Brad Wilkerson
Shannon Stewart

And right behind:

Preston Wilson
Randy Winn
Jay Gibbons

I guess he'll be offered arbitration this offseason. I'm not aware of where to find a list, but I imagine he'd be a Class C free agent, meaning the Dodgers would get a supplemental pick after the second round if he chose not to accept arbitration and signed elsewhere.

2005-08-26 15:24:53
74.   Howard Fox
73 if the Dodgers treat him right, let him play regularly, and offer him arbitration, I don't see why he wouldn't accept, unless he doesn't like the weather out here

71 so are you saying that either a hitter makes a lot of contact or walks & strikes out a lot, either or?

2005-08-26 15:28:16
75.   King of the Hobos
The problem with Cruz and arbitration is that he makes $4 mil this year I believe, you can only lose so much in arbitration. I'd prefer we just sign him to a cheap extension before arbitration.
2005-08-26 15:28:36
76.   Kayaker7
74 I'm just saying that most players seem to fall into two categories:

1. Make a lot of contact, hardly walk, have low OBP.

2. Strike out a lot, have a lot of power, walk a lot and have high OBP.

Guys like Ichiro and Vlad who make a lot of contact, hardly walk, and have high OBP seem to be extremely rare.

2005-08-26 15:29:27
77.   the OZ
So basically, we traded Tony Schrager for either Jose Cruz, Jr. or a draft pick in the 70-90 overall range.

I'd prefer Cruz to the pick, but overall it was quite a decent deal for us.

2005-08-26 15:31:25
78.   Jon Weisman
76 - I think there are also hitters like Mike Scioscia - good plate discipline but low power - aren't there? Scioscia's development as a player was hindered by people expecting him to be like your Category 2 - when really he was a third category. I don't know, but Navarro might be like that.
2005-08-26 15:33:03
79.   Howard Fox
78 I agree with you, Navarro seems to be the second coming of Scioscia in all respects
2005-08-26 15:36:19
80.   GoBears
76 Right. And the two go hand it hand, because making contact on balls outside the strike zone usually (unless it's Vlad who can drive anything he touches) means weak outs, no HRs. Swinging and missing at those pitches is often better than making contact (as long as there aren't 2 strikes), and knowing that it's a ball and laying off is even better. I think MOST players whose claim to fame is that they make contact also have lousy strike-zone judgment. Izzy comes to mind. Phillips. Lo Duca.
2005-08-26 15:38:56
81.   natepurcell
another aspect about navarro is how mature he is.
2005-08-26 15:41:07
82.   Howard Fox
80 I think you underestimate Navarro, he is a contact hitter with great knowledge of the strike he makes contact alot and draws walks...

come to think of it, we have Navarro, Robles, Drew, even Choi...not a bad start, 4 guys (potential starters all) who make contact and know the strike zone...

2005-08-26 15:43:24
83.   Howard Fox
money spent on their payroll & prominent names aside, the great Yankee teams of the past used to do just that, up and down the the pitch counts, make contact, lay off the bad the opponent's pitching staff nuts...
2005-08-26 15:43:47
84.   the OZ
75 If we offer 80% of the $4M 2005 salary (I think the rule is eighty percent of previous salary, but that number might not be exactly right), Cruz would make $3.2M.

A big boost to the "if we don't spend $100M on payroll, the season is a failure" crowd. If there's room in th budget, Cruz could be a nice piece to the 2006 puzzle.

Displacing Repko and Grabowski is worth $3.2M to the Dodgers, in my eyes.

2005-08-26 15:44:16
85.   Kayaker7
82 Though I like Choi a lot, not sure you can call him someone who makes a lot of contact...
2005-08-26 15:45:53
86.   Jon Weisman
80 - Lo Duca? In his career, he has struck out once every 14.3 plate appearances - projecting to 35 strikeouts every 500 plate appearances. That's not lousy stike-zone judgment.
2005-08-26 15:47:23
87.   Kayaker7
86 He could still be swinging at balls out of the zone, but just making contact.
2005-08-26 15:49:28
88.   GoBears
82 Actually, I wasn't thinking of Navarro at all, and didn't mention him. I like what I see so far too. And he uses his good plate judgment to draw a lot of walks, and put good swings on strikes. But he'll have to develop some power to move from "useful" player to "good" player. That may come with time, age, bulking up a smidge.

Robles also walks (I asked a few days ago why opposing pitchers don't just throw him more strikes, since he has no power). Drew and Choi have lots of power, and are therefore much higher-ceiling players.

The nigh-on useless "contact" hitters are the ones without power who also don't walk. Like Izzy & Phillips. At least Phillips hits an occasional HR or double.

2005-08-26 15:54:26
89.   Howard Fox
88 Navarro has great value, at least to me, and I consider him to be "good". They don't have to hit home runs to be good, at least in my book.

Robles knows his limitations and is a slap and line drive hitter. I like him alot, and as long as he stays within himself, I consider him to be good as well.

And Phillips has great glasses.

2005-08-26 15:56:52
90.   Kayaker7
89 As for Phillips, he had a great 2003, because he had a high batting average. But it plummetted in 2004 because he does not walk much. So, I think in any given period of time, he can look very good as a hitter.
2005-08-26 15:57:42
91.   Howard Fox
Phillips, again...

This Dodger season will be a success for me if he can hit a triple.

2005-08-26 15:58:59
92.   Telemachos
83 We saw a bit of that philosophy in action at the beginning of the year. I remember all Dodger hitters working deep into counts, drawing a lot of walks, and generally wearing pitchers out. Not coincidentally, that was the best sustained offensive baseball we've played all year.

I could be completely wrong (since this is totally from memory) but I remember even Phillips being patient at the plate -- resulting in him being VERY effective at driving in runs (also because there always were runners on base for him). Seems to me that his early success this year has made him increasingly impatient, swinging early and often and at bad pitches.

2005-08-26 16:04:42
93.   King of the Hobos
91 How many players would have to collide? If Phillips gets a triple, it's bad news for the opposing team, as they would have at least one injured player
2005-08-26 16:06:25
94.   Howard Fox
93 probably more than one, all the outfielders would have to be incapacitated, and even then an infielder would probably chase down and retrieve the ball before he made it to 3rd
2005-08-26 16:08:23
95.   Jon Weisman
This will be the game chat thread, where we can begin to wonder if the Dodgers will crack five runs for the weekend.
2005-08-26 16:13:12
96.   Howard Fox
95 I'd say we start by hoping for 5 hits and go from there
2005-08-26 16:16:42
97.   ddger
Jon, how far back are the comments kept in the archives?
2005-08-26 16:17:45
98.   Howard Fox
97 are you asking how good his memory is? it's very good
2005-08-26 16:20:01
99.   Marty
95. They may crack five heads over the weekend.
2005-08-26 16:21:42
100.   Howard Fox
99 or just start doing crack
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-26 16:24:06
101.   GoBears
89 Howard raises an interesting point, one that I asked about a week or so ago. I don't see how slap hitters, unless they can get hits out of the strike zone a la Gwynn and Ichiro, can sustain success over the long run. My reasoning is that if a player has no power, then pitchers risk a lot less by going after them. Guys like Robles and Navarro shouldn't be able to draw a lot of walks once the league has adjusted to them, because they should see a ton of strikes. I actually think that Navarro has more pop that Oscar, but you get the point.

Think of it the other way around, from the pitcher's POV. If you walk a HR-threat, OK, you've gotten off cheaply enough. But walking Robles? That's gotta hurt. Unless Robles starts hitting .350, I don't see why he ever sees a ball.

2005-08-26 16:26:54
102.   fanerman
101 - How was Wade Boggs? He was - uh - before my time. He was an on-base machine without much power.
2005-08-26 16:28:05
103.   Howard Fox
101 to be honest, there aren't a lot of good pitchers out there, never mind what you see with the Dodgers' futility...and even the good ones don't throw all strikes, they work the corners, and a sliver here or a sliver there, and voila...ball four...

also you want guys like this, contact, slap hitters, on base guys at the top of your lineup to set the table...

2005-08-26 16:36:38
104.   GoBears
103 Sometimes, esp. when they're tired, pitchers can't find the strike zone. But generally, they nibble to stay out of the wheelhouse. Balls are, in that sense, endogenous to their fear of the hitter. That's why pitchers never walk when they're batting. And I guess what I'm saying is that no-power slap hitters are just a notch above pitchers in the hitting dep't. If they're tremendous defensive players at key positions (as are pitchers, since pitching the most important part of defense) then they're OK to keep around, if you have offensive ability at other positions. But those guys shouldn't walk much because pitchers should just throw them strikes, knowing that the worst possible outcome is a slap-single, and the much more likely outcome is a slap-out.

I'm not talking here about Robles or Navarro specifically. Just that over time, I'd bet two things are true about almost all long-term slap hitters: (1) few walks, and (2) outstanding defensive players. Either both of those or (3) dumb managers.

2005-08-26 16:38:22
105.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Since you're speculating about LF, Joe Sheehan said in a chat today that he thinks Dunn is the OF Cincy will trade. And you've gotta know DePo would love to get him. I can't help but dream about him wearing blue.

Of course, then Tracy would run his RISP numbers and bat him 7th...

2005-08-26 16:38:29
106.   Jon Weisman
97 Comments on date back to about March 2005. Comments prior to that are located on the entries at and date back to about February or March 2004.
2005-08-26 16:39:50
107.   ElysianPark62
#92--Great observation. They seemed to have forgotten Wallach's teachings. It baffles me how most of them stopped doing that.
2005-08-26 16:40:24
108.   Telemachos
102 I remember one year (1987) when Boggs altered his approach to give himself more drive on the ball... and he hit 24 home runs (pretty good for that era). His BA actually stayed really high too (.363) though he struck-out slightly more. Still had 105 walks though.
2005-08-26 16:42:11
109.   GoBears
101 Boggs was before your time? Ugh, you're killin' me.

But you're right. Boggs only had a SLG over .500 once. While he was in Fenway, he hit a ton of doubles, and had an anomalous 24-HR season at age 29 (only one other season in double-digits - 11 at age 36). But basically, he was a singles machine.

Nonetheless, he did walk a lot. 4 straight years over 100 BBs (age 28-31), until the league figured out that he'd declined and stopped walking him so much.

Still: this summarizes what I think makes Boggs exceptional (in both senses of the word): lifetime OBP of .415, lifetime SLG of .443. Why the heck didn't they pitch to him?!

2005-08-26 16:42:58
110.   GoBears
Oops, meant to reference 102 there, not 101.
2005-08-26 16:44:26
111.   King of the Hobos
The good news is some Dodgers actually hit Pettitte. Actually, Cruz does. He's 16-40 with 2 homers and 4 doubles, and somehow only 3 Ks. Valentin is 6-16 with a triple and 4 BBs. Werth is the only other player with a homer, but he's 1-6 with 3 Ks. Phillips is 2-6 with 2 BBs and 2 doubles, and a clutch 3 RBIs (tied with Valentin for 2nd). Of the players who have faced Pettitte, only Weaver does not have a hit. Kent has never faced his former team mate.
2005-08-26 16:45:42
112.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
108 Gwynn did the same thing for a few years around 1998, approaching 20 homers two years in a row. I remember reading that he had talked to Ted Williams, who encouraged him to start driving inside pitches into the right field corner.
2005-08-26 16:51:21
113.   ddger
106 Thanks, Jon.
2005-08-26 16:51:49
114.   Howard Fox
111 so what you are saying is that Cruz, Valentin, Werth and Phillips won't start
2005-08-26 16:53:55
115.   ddger
Isn't Izzy taking his MRI today?
2005-08-26 16:56:01
116.   ddger
I see Repko and Perez starting tonight.
2005-08-26 16:56:16
117.   the OZ
Too bad Cora was dumped, otherwise Izturis would never have hurt his back.
2005-08-26 16:59:42
118.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
109 I always used to wonder the same thing watching Tony Phillips at the plate. He never slugged close to .500 in a full season, but it always seemed like the pitchers were afraid of him, and it seemed like he was always a league leader in OBP.
2005-08-26 17:00:18
119.   Nagman
I was using Yahoo's batter-pitcher matchups to check this weekend's matchups and using the "Since 1987" criteria they had Dante Bichette as a Dodger who had faced Clemens.

I couldn't for the life of me picture Bichette in Dodger blue and was thinking "Wow, my memory is bad." but I confirmed that he was never a Dodger according to his career stats. I assume there was confusion w/ the "L.A." Angels since he wasn't listed there.

2005-08-26 17:08:01
120.   King of the Hobos
Today is a fun day in the minors thus far:

Jacksonville-hour long delay, might be called soon
Vero-postponed due to "other"
Columbus-postponed due to rain

So today's minor league action consists of Delwyn Young, Willy Aybar, and various prospects in Ogden. ORod is in Vegas, I guess he's sort of a prospect, and he has Vegas' lowest ERA

2005-08-26 17:09:03
121.   Jon Weisman
119 - Bichette retired after a listless Spring Tranining with the Dodgers a couple years back.
2005-08-26 17:14:41
122.   King of the Hobos
After Pettitte (Dodgers are .324/.391/.510 in 102 ABs), we get Oswalt (.356/.405/.411 in 73 ABs) and Clemens (.204/.270/.338 in 157 ABs). That .055 ISO vs Oswalt is off 2 doubles and a triple. Choi has the triple. The doubles come off the bats of Dodger sluggers Paul Bako and Elmer Dessens. Dessens is 1-2 with a double and a triple, he might as well play LF tomorrow
2005-08-26 17:15:50
123.   King of the Hobos
122 *Dessens is 1-2 with a double and a walk. The out is a K
2005-08-26 17:15:57
124.   Suffering Bruin
The most comparable players to Dante Bichette:

1. Moises Alou (938)
2. Ted Kluszewski (890)
3. Tony Oliva (890)
4. Fred Lynn (886)
5. George Hendrick (885)
6. Bernie Williams (885)
7. Shawn Green (881)
8. George Bell (878)
9. Greg Luzinski (878)
10. Carl Furillo (875)

No Cooperstonians though I think Oliva belongs. If we didn't know any better, Bichette would be a "problematic" HOFer. But we know better... right?

2005-08-26 17:17:36
125.   deburns
109 Didn't Ty Cobb hit five HR's in a double-header one time in the early 20's to show he could hit HR's if he wanted to. Conversely, Babe Ruth was quoted (perhaps apochryphally) that he could have hit .600 but that would have meant hitting singles.
2005-08-26 17:39:06
126.   GoBears
I know that Wilt Chamberlain, after being accused of being a ball-hog one year when he average 50 ppg, went out and led the league in assists the following year. Just to show that he could. I think he still led the league in scoring, or close to it.
2005-08-26 17:41:58
127.   GoBears
126 OK, I got my years a bit off on that. The high APG year wasn't immediately following the 50 PPG year. The latter was in '67-'68. the former in '61-'62. But sometimes an apocryphal story is better than the truth anyway, right? Right?
2005-08-26 17:42:33
128.   Linkmeister
121 He was coaching (along with Mike Stanley, I think) one of the teams in the LLWS. But his kids got beat by the Ewa Beach/West O'ahu young'uns. Those kids taught a good lesson yesterday: if you're gonna get one-hit, make the hit a home run and have your pitchers throw a shutout.
2005-08-26 17:48:19
129.   GoBears
126 OK, next time I'll look it up before I spout. But I had the general outlines right. Wilt was 3rd in the league in scoring the year he led the league in assists. Oscar Robertson was actually better in both stats on a per-game basis, but missed 17 games.

OK, enough of that. Back to baseball....

2005-08-26 17:58:36
130.   fanerman
Are the line-ups out yet?
2005-08-26 18:03:28
131.   molokai
Tampa is pelting the Angels. Much like my Clippers this will be the last year that they are the laughing stock of baseball.
2005-08-26 18:08:40
132.   ryu
And a second straight year finishing ahead of the Lakers!
2005-08-26 18:09:27
133.   fanerman
The Angels have cut it to 10-7.
2005-08-26 18:16:23
134.   King of the Hobos
130 Friday home game, late start so the line ups don't appear until later. Also, is there a better source for line ups than Numerous times someone will post the line up far before does
2005-08-26 18:20:39
135.   King of the Hobos
The Giants have DFA'd Jason Christiansen. Just getting rid of him seems to be a positive for them
2005-08-26 18:37:02
136.   Slipstream
Here's Werth on his opportunity to play center field:

"I expect to be in there every day," said Werth, who started in center Thursday. "I think it's a great opportunity for me. I've always said I want to be a big league center fielder. Now I'll be able to show that not only to this organization, but every other organization." (LAT)

Sounds like he expects to be elsewhere next season.

2005-08-26 18:39:07
137.   King of the Hobos
Cain will replace Tomko is the rotation, and rotoworld believe the Giants have finally given up on the season.

Bellhorn has rejected an assignment to Pawtucket and will be placed on release waivers. He'll clear on Tuesday. I don't really want him that bad, but grabbing him and his rights next year might not be so bad.

2005-08-26 18:54:07
138.   jasonungar05
out of all the comments in my life, the wade boggs is before my time one just hit like a ton of bricks. I love baesball now, but really loved it in the late 70's/80's.

Before the dark times.

Boggs was awesome. 2 out, 2 strikes runner on 2nd base 9th inning game on the line I wouldnt want any other hitter.

others I would want up: (guys I have seen only)


2005-08-26 18:59:13
139.   King of the Hobos
Utley has homered, 1-0 Phils over the DBacks in the 2nd
2005-08-26 18:59:18
140.   confucius
Does anyone know what percentage of attempted base stealers Russell Martin has thrown out?
2005-08-26 19:01:12
141.   King of the Hobos
140 .282 according to 39. Not sure what the actual numbers of SBs abd CSs are
2005-08-26 19:10:36
142.   Steelyeri
lineups are out...

robles ss
werth cf
kent 2b
saenz 1b
phillips c
cruz rf
edwards 3b
valentin lf
lowe p

2005-08-26 19:12:44
143.   Steelyeri
and for the astros...

taveras cf
biggio 2b
berkman lf
ensberg 3b
lamb 1b
lane rf
everet ss
ausmus c
pettite p

2005-08-26 19:13:15
144.   fanerman
138 (and GoBears),
By "before my time", I mean his prime years of course. I remember him towards the twilight of his career. The mid-late 90's. But the great run he had in the 80's, I was playing with ninja turtles at the time.
2005-08-26 19:13:42
145.   Steelyeri
I would have started perez at 3rd today. We'll be needing his offense.
2005-08-26 19:18:40
146.   King of the Hobos
I have Valentin at 3B and Edwards in LF. Either way...

Taveras CF
Biggio 2B
Berkman LF
Ensberg 3B
Lamb 1B
Lane RF
Everett SS
Ausmus C
Pettitte P

2005-08-26 19:22:30
147.   King of the Hobos
Padres up 1-0 on a Giles sac fly

The DBacks took the lead 2-1 on a walk, some singles, and a squeeze

2005-08-26 19:26:45
148.   King of the Hobos
David Wright just put the Mets over the giants 1-0. He followed Floyd, who hit one deep to the gap that Winn barely got to
2005-08-26 19:32:04
149.   Uncle Miltie
131- the Clippers could the make the playoffs this year. Adding Mobley and the ugly alien should help a lot.
2005-08-26 19:34:32
150.   King of the Hobos
Troy Glaus hit a homer, 3-1 DBacks
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-26 19:40:09
151.   King of the Hobos
Valentin cannot pick up bunts. And that is a 3 base bunt with Phillips behind the plate
2005-08-26 19:42:17
152.   King of the Hobos
Wonderful start, men at the corners for Berkman and Ensberg.
2005-08-26 19:42:29
153.   Uncle Miltie
Wow Robles has great range...
2005-08-26 19:44:23
154.   King of the Hobos
The Rockies have taken the lead 2-1
2005-08-26 19:46:21
155.   Uncle Miltie
I don't think I've ever heard such pessimistic announcers before.

Oh, that's why

2005-08-26 19:46:55
156.   King of the Hobos
Wow, we got out of that, and Lowe didn't give up a homer. Weaver is starting to open the lead, Lowe will have to give up 2 homers tonight to tie Weaver. And with this lineup, that could be very hard
2005-08-26 19:51:05
157.   King of the Hobos
This ump has a wide strike zone. Now our hitters will flail wildly because they aren't getting balls
2005-08-26 19:52:50
158.   Uncle Miltie
True but Kent is pulling the same crap. He looks like he's guessing fastball everytime and swinging with his eyes closed.
2005-08-26 20:00:10
159.   Uncle Miltie
Olmedo stinks!
2005-08-26 20:03:48
160.   King of the Hobos
159 Just be happy that the Astros are 0-5 with men in scoring position. This could be a lot uglier

Quitanilla drove in a run, 3-1 Rockies

2005-08-26 20:04:43
161.   jpeace
Looks like the Astros are going to run wild on Phillips tonight
2005-08-26 20:04:59
162.   Uncle Miltie
Just play Choi against LHP.
2005-08-26 20:08:21
163.   King of the Hobos
Vin's call for Phillips' siingle was "a line drive 1 hitter." I would have guessed a 1 hitter was entirely possible if Cruz hadn't singled
2005-08-26 20:08:57
164.   Uncle Miltie
Hey at least the Dodgers won't be no hit! Is the Dodgers PA announcer, the Angels old PA announcer because he is terrible.


(and Phillips)

2005-08-26 20:10:27
165.   Uncle Miltie
Ummm....forget that I mentioned Phillips. Boo!
2005-08-26 20:11:17
166.   King of the Hobos
Lamb just hurt our best chance to score. Does anyone else hate that behind-the-catcher camera? It's hard to pick up strikes, and I didn't even see Lamb's catch, looked like a single as far as I knew
2005-08-26 20:13:11
167.   capdodger
Phillips showing off his baseball IQ.

He must have missed the memo to freeze on a line drive with fewer than 2 outs. I suppose that the silver lining is that the Dodgers are at least hitting line drives.

2005-08-26 20:16:39
168.   King of the Hobos
Francis is cruising with a 4-1 lead. If we can continue hitting line drives, we could take the lead (emphasis on could), and get back into "fewer games behind than games remaining with the Padres"
2005-08-26 20:17:30
169.   oldbear
Isnt Antonio Perez a better option than either Mike Edwards or Jose Valentin?

Honestly, Mike Edwards is not a good player. His OPS is .650 for the year. Why couldnt the Blue have brought up a Delwyn Young instead of him?

2005-08-26 20:19:06
170.   capdodger
168 - And send so many of us back into denial? No thanks. :-P
2005-08-26 20:19:09
171.   King of the Hobos
169 With Izzy out, we needed someone who could play 3rd and SS. Why we didn't get Aybar is beyond me, he's on the 40 man...
2005-08-26 20:20:38
172.   oldbear
Just occurred to me that this might be the longest Dodger homerless drought of the season.

We last hit one on Saturday.

Its been 6 games. Might end up being 8 counting the weekend.

8 games without a dinger is a long long drought.

2005-08-26 20:21:51
173.   capdodger
Huh... Houston announcers are giving a voice to the "Runs Expected Decline When Bunting" arguement.
2005-08-26 20:23:14
174.   King of the Hobos
173 With Lowe bunting?
2005-08-26 20:23:36
175.   Uncle Miltie
The Astros announcer just said
"The chance of scoring from 1st with no outs is the same as scoring from 2nd with 1 out.....Bunting isn't as great as some people think it is (or something like that)"

I thought you have a BETTER chance to score a runner from 1st with no outs than a runner from 2nd with 1 out.

2005-08-26 20:24:42
176.   capdodger
174 Yeah.
2005-08-26 20:26:17
177.   oldbear
You have a better chance at scoring from 1st with no one out.

Still waiting on the next Dodger to hit a HR...

2005-08-26 20:27:06
178.   capdodger
I thought that a no out bunt didn't affect the chance of scoring one run, but did lower the chance of scoring multiple runs.
2005-08-26 20:28:58
179.   Nagman
Obviously you have to take into consideration the fact that the pitcher is at the plate.
2005-08-26 20:29:26
180.   Uncle Miltie
177- that's what I thought
2005-08-26 20:32:00
181.   capdodger
179 Well yeah... All those RE tables take assume all things being equal, which they might be with someone like Weaver, but not Lowe.
2005-08-26 20:33:30
182.   oldbear
You have to think eventually the Dodgers will snap out of this power outage.
2005-08-26 20:34:22
183.   King of the Hobos
Lowe really likes men on the corners. I'll admit, I wouldn't mind Izzy out there right now.
2005-08-26 20:35:54
184.   King of the Hobos
That's the closest we'll get to snapping the power outage I bet
2005-08-26 20:36:02
185.   Nagman
Sinker seems to be on tonight, 9 ground outs (2 fly outs, 1 K).

Watching Lowe sweat makes me wonder what kind of shape he's in. I don't know anything about his work ethic but apparently he likes to party.

Andy Ashby was a big sweater.

2005-08-26 20:36:03
186.   oldbear
Kent almost... Geez.
2005-08-26 20:36:20
187.   King of the Hobos
Utley homered yet again, Pjillies tied the DBacks 3-3
2005-08-26 20:36:21
188.   ddger
are we going to score tonight? which inning?
2005-08-26 20:37:25
189.   oldbear
Olmedo seems to be really draggin out there. He doesnt have the consistent at bats, being played on an everyday basis.
2005-08-26 20:38:15
190.   capdodger
Yes... We're missing Dreifort like something horrid. I'll cut the Houston announcers some slack, because they seem even handed.

At least that's what I thought until they praised that Devil's article

2005-08-26 20:38:52
191.   oldbear
That was pathetic. A 5 pitch inning for Pettite. Way to make him work fellas...
2005-08-26 20:39:34
192.   capdodger
188 The 10th.
2005-08-26 20:39:36
193.   King of the Hobos
The Rockies are the only NL West team winning right now. Too bad we can't have another NL West Loss day
2005-08-26 20:40:36
194.   oldbear
Is there any reason Navarro is being sat for this game? Does he really need another day off?
2005-08-26 20:42:26
195.   King of the Hobos
194 No. Phillips is now 3-8 with 2 doubles and 2 walks off Pettitte, Tracy needed an excuse to play Phillips
2005-08-26 20:42:36
196.   ddger
Phillips threatened to talk to press if Tracy sat him down again tonight
2005-08-26 20:43:58
197.   Spageticus
My Dodger TV drought has been long and difficult. I am so desperate, I am watching FSN Texas. so, so desperate
2005-08-26 20:44:30
198.   oldbear
Lowe is pitching pretty well but this Astros lineup is terrrible...

I dont really think they will make the WC, even given their starting staff.

2005-08-26 20:46:45
199.   capdodger
197 I've been really ticked with MLB.TV. They're really good at serving feeds from FSNW2 when the Dodgers are playing non-Vin Scully games, and from other FSN's in Dodger Stadium. Rather annoying.
2005-08-26 20:47:12
200.   Kayaker7
194 Did you see Phillips in the dugout last night, wiggling the bat, just itching to get in the game? I almost felt sorry for him.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-26 20:47:53
201.   ddger
Hmm.... Kent is 2 for 18 with 0 RBI since Bradley incident. If Kent doesn't start hitting I don't think we will score or win any of these games against Houston.
2005-08-26 20:48:25
202.   Ryan Jerz
Anybody else catch the full-inning conversation about Plaschke's article today by the Astros' announcers? It was very intelligent and went as far as to blame the problems this year not on character alone, but on changes made to the team.
2005-08-26 20:49:01
203.   oldbear
Jose Cruz with some brain dead caribbean hacking right there.
2005-08-26 20:49:34
204.   Spageticus
Speaking of annoying, who is the Padres announcer that seems to have an outburst every now and then? All of a sudden he breaks into fits of passion over a ground-ball foul. This guy is atrocious, IMHO.
2005-08-26 20:49:51
205.   capdodger
202 And on injuries.

200 Yep. He looked just like HSC has looked at many points this season.

2005-08-26 20:50:04
206.   King of the Hobos
I'm going to guess Lowe does not help himself here
2005-08-26 20:50:05
207.   Uncle Miltie
199- yea, it was particularly bad when I was forced to listen to the Rockies announcers. They are horrible.
2005-08-26 20:51:15
208.   King of the Hobos
Bases loaded 2 outs, Tim Worrell is coming in for the DBacks...
2005-08-26 20:52:21
209.   oldbear
Pettite didnt throw many strikes that inning. But all the Dodgers execpt Edwards hacked everyone of them.
2005-08-26 20:52:32
210.   ddger
192 we're halfway there
2005-08-26 20:53:11
211.   Uncle Miltie
204- either Jerry Coleman or Ted Leitner- two of the worst announcers in baseball.

Coleman is old and senile. Leitner is just stupid.

2005-08-26 20:53:45
212.   oldbear
204. Are you listening to Jerry Coleman? He went into the Hall of Fame this year.
2005-08-26 20:53:52
213.   capdodger
But hey! At least Lowe batting this inning that means the top of the lineup will be up next innning!!

-crickets chirping-

2005-08-26 20:55:58
214.   King of the Hobos
Update on Worrell: He gave up a 1 run single to Michaels, then Abreu hit a grand slam, 8-3 Phillies. Good ol' Tim Worrell
2005-08-26 20:57:22
215.   capdodger
Looks like Lowe managed to show up sober tonight.
2005-08-26 20:57:27
216.   oldbear
Too bad Derek Lowe didnt pitch this well the few times when the Dodgers actually scored some runs for him. Great pitch to get Ensberg looking.
2005-08-26 20:57:51
217.   Kayaker7
213 Well, at least it's not Izturis at the top of the lineup.
2005-08-26 20:58:15
218.   King of the Hobos
215 Unfortunately, so did Pettitte
2005-08-26 20:59:05
219.   capdodger
Does Pettitte have a rep for PUI?
2005-08-26 20:59:15
220.   Uncle Miltie
215- sober and hughesless
2005-08-26 20:59:29
221.   Spageticus
Coleman. I was afraid he was the spaz. Vin Scully he is not, yet he gets to share a room with Vin for eternity.

Is that a two-seamer Lowe is throwing (90 mph)? It sure looks electric tonight.

2005-08-26 21:01:26
222.   capdodger
One amusing part of watching FSN's from other places is the somewhat local ads.

From Houston, US capital of Girth: Ads hawking OTC diet pills.

2005-08-26 21:01:27
223.   Kayaker7
219 PUI?
2005-08-26 21:01:58
224.   King of the Hobos
The leadoff single was way too good to be true
2005-08-26 21:02:03
225.   Uncle Miltie
That was Werthless
2005-08-26 21:02:56
226.   oldbear
What is Werth thinking? We findally get the leadoff man on and he goes and swings at that junk, and gets the DP...

He should be fined for a play that stupid.

2005-08-26 21:03:58
227.   capdodger
219 Pitching Under the Influence.
2005-08-26 21:03:59
228.   Kayaker7
226 It doesn't take a Caribbean to hack at slop.
2005-08-26 21:04:47
229.   Uncle Miltie
That was a ball
2005-08-26 21:04:48
230.   Kayaker7
227 Like David Wells?
2005-08-26 21:04:56
231.   King of the Hobos
Kent was not happy, that's the same pitch that got Robles and Werth in the first
2005-08-26 21:05:15
232.   oldbear
Kent should get himself thrown out of the game. Horrible call by the ump on both pitches.
2005-08-26 21:06:51
233.   capdodger
230 Right, like Wells.

Hopefully the Dodgers, now that several batters have struck out on that backdoor slider way, will start to know that it's being called a strike.

2005-08-26 21:07:27
234.   Uncle Miltie
Pettitte is getting better calls than Lowe
2005-08-26 21:08:13
235.   Kayaker7
Is there any reason why balls and strikes cannot be called by an upstairs umpire, looking at the pitch from two cameras, one right above the plate, and one from the side of the plate?
2005-08-26 21:08:25
236.   King of the Hobos
Injury updates: Izzy's MRI pending, Bradley's 2nd opinion unknown, Drew ceased swining, Alvarez not yet throwing with much velocity, no update on Odalis

Very informative...

2005-08-26 21:09:42
237.   Uncle Miltie
236- thanks for the non updates ;)
2005-08-26 21:10:05
238.   oldbear
Grabowski principle. Lowe just walked the banjo hitting Adam Everett.
2005-08-26 21:10:29
239.   capdodger
232 And what point would that serve? Other that the entertainment factor. Maybe Kent could pull a Milton Bradley and take his shirt off at the plate before going back to the dugout and chucking a bag of balls onto the field. Heck, maybe he could toss some of the more useless deadweight on the lineup out onto the field.
2005-08-26 21:11:17
240.   King of the Hobos
Phillips didn't have a chance. And yes, you have to pitch to Ausmus
2005-08-26 21:12:12
241.   Uncle Miltie
Phillips just looked at his arm. Maybe he should purposely break it.
2005-08-26 21:13:02
242.   Uncle Miltie
So does anyone here still want Everett over Izturis?
2005-08-26 21:14:51
243.   King of the Hobos
No more 1 run games. Good news is we have a good bench, Perez, Choi, and Ledee.
2005-08-26 21:15:13
244.   capdodger
242 Why not? Izturis would have been CS 2nd. {tounge in cheek}
2005-08-26 21:17:08
245.   oldbear
242. Everett has hit 10 home runs this year.
2005-08-26 21:17:11
246.   Kayaker7
Finally a hr.
2005-08-26 21:17:17
247.   King of the Hobos
We hit a homer? No way...
2005-08-26 21:17:57
248.   oldbear
THank you Olmedo. The power drought has finally been lifted.
2005-08-26 21:18:09
249.   Uncle Miltie
Finally a run- moral victory.
2005-08-26 21:18:15
250.   Spageticus
That was an incredible home run. Professional hitter!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-08-26 21:18:23
251.   ddger
finally we're out of our HR drought, that's about the only way we'll score these days
2005-08-26 21:18:39
252.   capdodger
WTG Tomato!!!

Houston annc.: "This guy hits well, but doesn't run well."

But you don't have to run if you hit it out, do you?

2005-08-26 21:19:36
253.   Uncle Miltie
245- Houston. He also has a .286 OBP and only 22 walks
2005-08-26 21:21:18
254.   King of the Hobos
That ball seemed to fool Vin, it didn't go nearly as deep as Vin seemed to imply
2005-08-26 21:22:28
255.   Uncle Miltie
254- same with the Astros announcers
2005-08-26 21:24:27
256.   capdodger
Run Lowe back out there @ 94 pitches? Or turn it over to the pen?
2005-08-26 21:24:40
257.   King of the Hobos
The Padres have caught up 4-3, and still have a mild threat in the 8th. Apparently, Giles is a good situational runner
2005-08-26 21:25:24
258.   King of the Hobos
256 If the choice is between Lowe and Carrara, then Lowe with a short leash
2005-08-26 21:27:31
259.   King of the Hobos
Apparently Carrara was the correct choice. At least we scored a run
2005-08-26 21:27:40
260.   Kayaker7
What's up with Lowe and his HRs...
2005-08-26 21:27:52
261.   Uncle Miltie
Derek Lowe has returned. I thought that he might actually raise his trade value...
2005-08-26 21:27:53
262.   capdodger
Was that Wallach yelling at the plate ump? He's usually the designated fisker isn't he?
2005-08-26 21:28:17
263.   oldbear
That was a real uncool thing to do Lowe.
2005-08-26 21:28:25
264.   oldbear
That was a real uncool thing to do Lowe.
2005-08-26 21:28:25
265.   oldbear
That was a real uncool thing to do Lowe.
2005-08-26 21:29:39
266.   Uncle Miltie
&#^# He was out.
2005-08-26 21:30:12
267.   capdodger
He was out.
2005-08-26 21:30:57
268.   King of the Hobos
Who starts the 8th? Ledee and Choi are both lefties, so Perez?
2005-08-26 21:31:26
269.   oldbear
Those are morale crushers right there. Your team finally ties up the game and you immediately give it back...

Then again, this season is over.

2005-08-26 21:32:42
270.   King of the Hobos
The Phillies have scored 3 more runs, 11-3. The DBacks' runs differential is really starting to catch up to them
2005-08-26 21:33:55
271.   King of the Hobos
If we tie this up, at least Biggio is now protected by Bruntlett. He's the killer B known to kill rallies
2005-08-26 21:34:50
272.   capdodger
268 Probably, and if he gets a hit, we'll hear about how he's such a great pinch hitter.
2005-08-26 21:35:19
273.   Kayaker7
268 Carrara bats for himself. :-)
2005-08-26 21:36:09
274.   Kayaker7 pitch at bat...
2005-08-26 21:40:19
275.   King of the Hobos
Can we assume Kent-Saenz-Ledee/Choi? Because I have no interest seeing Phillips as our last hope
2005-08-26 21:41:43
276.   Kayaker7
275 Since the game two days ago ended with Phillips on deck, maybe Tracy will make it up to him this time.
2005-08-26 21:42:38
277.   Icaros
276 "I don't go home without seeing Jason Phillips bat."
2005-08-26 21:43:58
278.   King of the Hobos
Fuentes has 2 on, 2 outs for Mark Sweeney. He just walked Klesko on a full count
2005-08-26 21:44:10
279.   capdodger
There's a two base single.
2005-08-26 21:46:08
280.   capdodger
Looks like it might be the ugly, wild Sanchez tonight.
2005-08-26 21:46:44
281.   King of the Hobos
Fuentes struck out Sweeney looking, Padres lose. The Giants lost 1-0. The DBacks have no chance, down 11-3. We could gain a game...
2005-08-26 21:48:57
282.   capdodger
Eh.. Forget this. I'm gonna take a shower and when I get out, the game will be over and I can watch late night TV.
2005-08-26 21:49:03
283.   King of the Hobos
Robles hasn't looked pretty tonight, but he's getting the job done defensively. Too bad he didn't get the call on the throw from his kees
2005-08-26 21:54:45
284.   Kayaker7
We just need a walk off HR from Old Maido.
2005-08-26 21:55:41
285.   capdodger
Ah... What did I miss?
2005-08-26 21:57:12
286.   Kayaker7
Lead off walk to Kent.
2005-08-26 21:59:01
287.   King of the Hobos
Those sliders weren't strikes, we should have 2 on. Now Phillips will ground into a DP
2005-08-26 21:59:03
288.   Kayaker7
Old Maido struck limping back to dugout, like his right hamstring is bothering him.
2005-08-26 21:59:34
289.   Uncle Miltie
Clutch strikeout by Saenz. DP by Phillips?
2005-08-26 21:59:40
290.   capdodger
Phillips GIDP??
2005-08-26 21:59:58
291.   ddger
K would be better
2005-08-26 22:00:38
292.   Kayaker7
290 No, not yet. 2-2 count.
2005-08-26 22:00:55
293.   ddger
Kent needs to steal to get in RISP for Phillips.
2005-08-26 22:01:54
294.   capdodger
Phillips swinging at Ball Three there...
2005-08-26 22:02:20
295.   Kayaker7
Phillips check swings, but is allowed a reprieve...3-2.
2005-08-26 22:02:37
296.   Kayaker7
Phillips a single.
2005-08-26 22:03:13
297.   Kayaker7
Pinch runner for Phillips.
2005-08-26 22:03:22
298.   ddger
Phillips comes through without RISP. If only Old Maido could have drawn a walk, we might be tied by now.
2005-08-26 22:04:12
299.   capdodger
I'll see Jim's Jason and raise him a Jayson.
2005-08-26 22:04:13
300.   oldbear
Its a shame Saenz killed this inning with his horrible at bat. Lidge didnt thrown him anything close to the plate and Olmedo still struck out.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-08-26 22:05:19
301.   Kayaker7
Cruz K. Ledee up.
2005-08-26 22:05:25
302.   Uncle Miltie
Pinch hit with Ledee
2005-08-26 22:05:26
303.   ddger
3 terrible swings by Cruz
2005-08-26 22:05:32
304.   King of the Hobos
Cruz swung at 2 sliders outside the zone just like Saenz. Whay are they swinging?
2005-08-26 22:05:40
305.   Uncle Miltie
2005-08-26 22:06:52
306.   ddger
Another agonizing 1 run loss?
2005-08-26 22:07:24
307.   Kayaker7
Ledee over.
2005-08-26 22:07:55
308.   King of the Hobos
So do we lose 4-5 tomorrow? These 1 run losses are killing us. Lidge was not that good, we could have walked a lot more...
2005-08-26 22:08:09
309.   capdodger
Hmm... maybe we should be banging the FIRE TIM WALLACH drum.
2005-08-26 22:08:18
310.   oldbear
Absolutely pathetic 9th inning. If we had any hitters with any patience at all, Lidge would have walked the bases loaded.

Just dumb baseball.

2005-08-26 22:08:21
311.   ddger
Almost every swing for a strike was on a ball. We are definitely pressing.
2005-08-26 22:10:37
312.   ddger
This season is turning into a LOST SEASON.
2005-08-26 22:10:39
313.   King of the Hobos
Arizona has lost 3 straight since we tied them for 2nd. We've lost by 1 run each time since then

13.5 games back or not, Colorado is slowly becoming by favorite to at least finish 2nd

2005-08-26 22:10:39
314.   oldbear
I hope Tracy and the whole coaching staff are gone next year.

The patience that our hitters had at the earlier part of the year is completely gone. Its like they just dont care. They go up their hacking with no mind or reason or anything.

The only players that have a clue are Navarro, Robles, and Choi. The rest of them are just a bunch of hackers.

We're done. We've been done for awhile.

I've stopped caring about these losses a long time ago when AP/Choi were benched.

2005-08-26 22:12:32
315.   King of the Hobos
When Mr Clutch was actually clutch, I thought the stars were aligned in our favor.
2005-08-26 22:18:34
316.   King of the Hobos
Delwyn Young went 2-6 with a double and homer, while Aybar went 3-4 with a walk. Vegas combined for 22 hits and 15 runs, in Portland, half the hits and 7 runs were off Stauffer.

If Izzy's MRI is bad, do we send up one of these guys? Neither is being challenged in Vegas at this point

2005-08-26 22:19:53
317.   ddger
i miss Carolyn Hughes post game interviews
2005-08-26 22:21:50
318.   ddger
just one more week before college football season
2005-08-26 22:22:11
319.   Kayaker7
315 From what I heard on the radio, he was lucky he wasn't called out on that check swing. Sounds very familiar. ;-)
2005-08-26 22:23:06
320.   Bob Timmermann
Oh well, tomorrow is another day!

Thanks to those who noticed the Rick Monday line. I was quite proud of that one!

2005-08-26 22:28:57
321.   das411

Jorge Cantu: .296-21-88
Jeff Kent: .291-22-83

when the 2007 Dodgers-DRays world series rolls around, whose numbers will be higher?

and fyi,

Chase Utley: .297-19-78
Bobby Abreu: .297-22-82

just some food for least your team is entertaining. lots of phillies fans are at the point where we actually miss larry bowa!

2005-08-26 22:33:36
322.   confucius
314. I know. I use to defend some of their coaches, namely Wallach and Colborn, but they don't seem to be correcting mistakes. How long has the whole pitching staff been struggling to hold runners?? Not one stitch of progress yet. Their solution was a new catcher. Steve Yaeger couldn't throw these runners out.
2005-08-26 22:42:55
323.   Dodgersrock24
Why was Cruz swinging at those 3 bad pitches. It made his daddy proud to be a worthless ball player.
2005-08-26 22:56:47
324.   Dodgersrock24
314. When the Dodgers started losing, I was blaming the coaching staff, but now I realize it's not Tracy's fault. He's managing a minor league team. I sometimes disagree with his decision makings but I believe he's doing whatever it takes to win with the ball club they have. Yes, the whole coaching staff will return next year.
2005-08-26 23:44:16
325.   GoBears
Gee, I dunno fellas - why DO hitters swing at sliders? Sliders almost never end up in the strike zone...and yet half the pitchers in baseball throw them. Could it be because they FOOL hitters with them? The hitter isn't deciding whether or not to swing at the moment that you and I can tell on TV that it's not going to be in the zone. They're deciding much earlier. And unless they can pick up "slider" immediately from release point or spin, or else guess correctly that it's a slider and not what it looks like - a fastball - then they're gonna be made to look foolish.

Think of those horrible-looking swings at sliders 2 feet off the plate as "being fooled" not "being stupid," and your blood pressure will return to normal, and you'll just praise the pitcher for making a good pitch.

Thus, Lidge was not necessarily horrible. He threw enticing, but unhittable pitches. One man's impatient/dumb batter is another's fooled victim.

2005-08-27 00:26:02
326.   Suffering Bruin
So I'm having dinner with friends tonight (which is why I wasn't posting ten times an hour like this afternoon) and a guy who doesn't know sports at all says to me, "You're a Dodger fan, right?" and I say yeah and he says "So... what do you think they'll do against my main man Andy?" and I say "I didn't know you were a sports fan," and he says, "I'm not but I think Andy is pretty cute and I say he'll shut them out tonight. I loved him when he was with the Yankees." All I could come up with was... "We'll see..."

Gotta love those gay non-sports fans because from experience, they tend to be right more than wrong.

Good night all. I will try to make the Sunday game. Not that it'll make a damn bit of difference but I wanted to see Clemens before he retires. The way our team is going, I'll probably see him pitch a pretty good game, right?

'Night all...

2005-08-27 01:23:42
327.   bokonon42
"Chemistry is definitely important," DePodesta said. "I've said for a long time that it is the difference between major league players and championship players. You have to have the competitiveness and self-esteem to achieve at the highest level."

Paul DePodesta: Pod Person.

2005-08-27 07:58:47
328.   Bob Timmermann
Another letter to the Times Sports section goes unpublished.

10 more and I can go in the Deranged Crank file!

2005-08-27 09:04:23
329.   Vishal
the yankees just got matt lawton from the cubs for an unnamed A-ball pitcher. certainly we could have picked him up??
2005-08-27 09:14:27
330.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, but why?
2005-08-27 09:18:00
331.   KAYVMON
Dont know if this has been mentioned by a highly recommend reading Scoop Jackson's letter to Jeff Kent on page 2 of One part of it:
"I mean, I've heard people call you a loner. They say that you don't get along with anyone, that it's not racial with you -- it's neutral. That you're just a down-home country kinda fella and it's you that we don't know how to deal with.

Cool. That's fair.

But when you start naming all of your black friends ("If he thinks I have a problem with African-Americans, then go talk to Dusty Baker, Dave Winfield who took me under his wing, Joe Carter and all the guys I idolized in this game and all the veteran players who taught me how to play this game."), it kinda validates Bradley's point."

2005-08-27 09:18:56
332.   Vishal
i dunno... do you like having a starting outfield of werth, cruz, edwards/valentin? on the other hand, why bother i guess.
2005-08-27 09:19:52
333.   Bob Timmermann
I'm in the "Why bother, I guess" camp.
2005-08-27 09:24:08
334.   KAYVMON
Re 331, sorry the link to that article is
2005-08-27 09:34:27
335.   Jim Hitchcock
Vishal! What's up with that New Yawk accent???
2005-08-27 15:16:55
336.   Vishal
haha, jim you sound like you've been reading my livejournal. i wrote that just this morning i heard someone ordering a "hat cuppa quawffee". i'll never talk like that, though. californians have the clearest accent in the entire anglophonic world.

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