does anyone know anything abut hochevar... i heard he was going to be signed sometime in the near future.

We went with the varsity line up...until Tracy got to the end of the line up

SS Robles
1B Choi
2B Kent
3B Saenz
RF Cruz
C Navarro
LF Valentin
CF Repko
P Houlton

1 Decided not to go to school, extending the negotiation period until January

2... not bad... i miss the werth leadoff exirement

Colorado line up

SS Barmes
CF Sullivan
1B Helton
LF Holliday
RF Hawpe
3B Atkins
2B Gonzalez
C Ardoin
P B Kim

3... yes

i actually like tonights dodger lineu... i think tracy has smartened u a bit (the werth leading off thing could have been a goldmine!

lets throw in the money... do we crush Kim tonight or do we falter out of the NL West Race for. i am scared of the Giants

All these Dodger names and they're all in the wrong place it seems:

Random Dodger game callback

September 3, 1991

Pinch runner Tom Goodwin scored from second base on a throwing error by Cardinals third baseman Todd Zeile in the bottom of the ninth inning to give the Dodgers a 5-4 win before a crowd of 26,793 at Dodger Stadium. The win improved the Dodgers record to 73-59 and kept them in a tie for first in the National League West with Atlanta.

The Cardinals broke out to a 3-0 lead in the second inning. Zeile doubled in two runs and first baseman Pedro Guerrero singled in another. But the Dodgers answered with four of their own in the bottom half of the inning. Brett Butler scored on a passed ball by Tom Pagnozzi, Darryl Strawberry singled in a run and first baseman Eddie Murray followed with a 2-run home run.

Dodgers starter Mike Morgan seemed to have the game in hand going into the 9th. But he gave up a leadoff single to Guerrero, who had Geronimo Pena run for him. Felix Jose struck out. But Pena stole second and Milt Thompson followed with a walk. Morgan then threw a wild pitch to advance the runners. Manager Tommy Lasorda then had Morgan intentionally walk Gerald Perry to load the bases and brought in Jay Howell. Jose Oquendo then blooped a ball into center that Brett Butler wasn't able to come up with. Pena scored, although Perry was forced out at second base.

In the bottom of the ninth, Cardinals manager Joe Torre brought in Scott Terry to relieve. Pinch hitter Dave Hansen led off with a single to center and Goodwin ran for him. Shortstop Alfredo Griffin sacrificed Goodwin to second. Chris Gwynn batted for Howell and hit a slow roller to third that Zeile barehanded on the grass, but threw over the head of Perry to give the Dodgers the win.

The 1991 Dodgers would end up a buck short with a 93-69 record, one game behind the Braves, who went from worst to first and ended up losing in the World Series to Minnesota in seven games. The Dodgers came into their last three games of the year tied with the Braves. The Dodgers were playing in San Francisco, while the Braves were at home against last place Houston. After two games, the pennant race was over with the Giants administering the coup de grace with a 4-0 shutout win by Trevor Wilson.

The Dodgers had a remade team in 1991. Free agents Brett Butler and Darryl Strawberry joined the outfield. Butler batted .296 with a .401 OBP and led the NL with 112 runs scored and 108 walks. Strawberry hit 28 home runs and drove in 99.

The Dodgers pitching staff was anchored by Mike Morgan, who was 14-10 with a 2.78 ERA and Ramon Martinez who was 17-13 with a 3.27 ERA. Bob Ojeda was 12-9 with a 3.18 ERA. Tim Belcher had a 2.62 ERA. Howell had 16 saves. Orel Hershiser returned from shoulder surgery and went 10-11 with a 3.58 ERA.

In addition to Murray there was another future Hall of Famer on the team. Gary Carter stopped by as the backup catcher to Mike Scioscia and played in 101 games.

Although the 1991 season, might have given Dodger fans some optimism for 1992, the future would not be bright. Strawberry's 1991 season was his only good one in Los Angeles. Injuries and drug problems would derail his career. And that would just be the tip of the iceberg for the Dodgers.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

The Brewers have taken a 1-0 lead. Had the bases loaded and no outs and only managed one run

Brewers draw first blood in Milwaukee. They lead 1-0 after 1. Woody Williams vs Wes Obermueller.

Bob, was that you in the LTE in the Times this morning? or was that the other Bob Timmerman?

12

Indeed that was me. I was shocked to read it.

As were we all...unusual for the Times to print something contrary to their apparent policy.

Here's what I was thinking when I say the lineup:
SS Robles
1B Choi
2B Kent
3B Saenz
RF Cruz
C Navarro
You finally get it Tracy! DJ is a flyball pitcher so putting Saenz at 3B shouldn't be too bad. Cruz doesn't bat 8th, Navarro is higher up in the lineup, no Edwards and....
LF Valentin...DOH!
CF Repko...ok fine, at least he's batting 8th
P Houlton

Almost Jim, almost.

*saw

Hawai'i has been on offense for the first 13:36 of the game against USC.

And is losing 7-3.

Not a bad lineup. I'm surprised Ledee's not in there for Repko, but overall at least our best hitters are bunched 1-6.

Valentin should be good for at least 1 or 2 walks off Kim.

I brought this up a couple weeks ago but Jose Valentin his 30 Homers last season. This year he has TWO!

Something is fishy about that...

B Kim has been pitching very well lately. He really did a number on the Dodgers and Giants on the Rockies recent trip.

Houlton being a fly ball pitcher seems to have influenced the lineup. Cruz is good, Repko is better than Werth in LF, and Ledee has the hamstring player. I may have put Werth in LF, but Valentin figures to do the same thing (strikeout or walk). Tracy really needs to figure out that Weaver isn't the ground ball pitcher he's been in the past

i still think perez is a better option than robles, and no reason why werth isn't in there, he's a better option than valentin and repko, ledee is a better option than valentin and repko also, but whats his health status.

Why is Choi swinging 2-0?

elbert currently has 9Ks through 4IP so far today.

he has been completely dominant the second half of the year.

i like it, a pitcher getting stronger as the year goes on.

Kent stinks

We're not badmouthing Repko enough, no way the Kreuter effect happens without it

That was unnecessary by Sullivan. He would have been just fine not to catch it =D

Why is Choi swinging 2-0?

because it was a good pitch to hit?

Not sure why Choi was swinging 2-0 either. Kim walked him twice in LA.. He's not going to give him anything to hit. Just take your walks Hee Seop.

Jeff Kent another 1st pitch out.

Anyone catch the dominant performance by Nomo yesterday in AAA? 10k's, 3 hitter and only one walk. Good to see there is still life in the old warriors arm. Given the state of the Yankee rotation he might be get one last shot. To bad as I would have to stop rooting for him as soon as he dons the pin stripes.

26- Choi's up to work the pitcher and that pitch was that great. The best he could do with it is hit it the other way.

The Rockies announcers really stink. They are getting excited about a sacrifice bunt in Coors "Textbook bunt...doing the little things"

22: Why is Choi swinging 2-0?

At least Hee's playing. I forgot Hee was even on the roster.

You can't stop Reggie Bush. You only hope to ...wait, you can't contain him either.

so choi should be going up to the plate looking to walk and hitting is just a secondary thought?

Hopefully DePo wont consider Clint Hurdle as manager.

Sac bunting in the 1st inning at Coors?

Santana has a perfect game after 4 innings. Still early but he is looking Koufax dominating at the moment.

33- no, working the count is important, especially in Coors. We want to get to their bullpen early

34 He and the entire Rockies staff are coming back next year, so no need to worry

By the way Nate, it looks like you were right about Hochevar. With him not going to school it looks very likely that he signs with us. Good call.

I hate these announcers, great play by Repko to hit the cutoff man

That's why Repko's in there, Helton running or not. Hopefully Houlton isn't back to his first inning problems (although in the context of this game, I hope that is the case)

If Choi never swung at 2-0 pitches, he'd never see a 3-0 one. Dogmatic batting theories don't work; I'd be the Dodgers first baseman, if they did.

Was that a legit double or did Repko mess up another one?

Hmmm...the Rockies appear to be doing a `recon by fire' on the fences.

By the way Nate, it looks like you were right about Hochevar. With him not going to school it looks very likely that he signs with us. Good call.

now my 2008 rotation fantasy is that much closer to becoming a reality :)

I'd like to thank Clint Hurdle for limiting the amount of damage his team could do in the first inning. He should have had two doubles a walk and one out.

42 It went to the warning track in center, which is insanely deep. Sullivan barely caught(had to jump) Kent's fly in the top of the 1st, and that was 10 feet from the track

QUICK JIM!!! Bunt him to third!!!

42- If you meant the play that ended the 1st, then yes, it was a legit double to the wall; Repko played it well getting it back in in time to catch Helton.

im going to jinx tiffany here.

big tiff is throwing a no no through 4IP. but he also has 6bbs in the game. Man, tiffany has regressed soo much in the second half this year.

Did Vin just call him Duaner Navarro?

Padres rallied for a 3-1 lead

"Kim and Jennings are grinders."

i agree, these rockies announcers are incredibly hard to listen to.

Who's worse: the Rockies' announcers or Steiner-Monday? (I've never heard the former)

"Kim and Jennings are grinders."

In some parts of the country, they are called hoagies.

I just want the Dodgers to be 3 games behind by the time that final 3 game series starts with the Padres.

You cant ask much more than to play out the whole string and keep every game meaningfull.

bam! kemp just broke beltres single season hr record at vero beach.

kemp went yard off one of the mets top prospects, gaby hernandez.

I did jinx Santana but he does have 8k's in 5 innings.

Houlton needs to settle down and start K'ing some Rockies. He's getting hit hard.

I've noticed some knee-jerk complaining seemingly every time a Dodger swings ahead of the count, even when it's a good pitch. I'm all for taking walks, but you can't be stubborn about it. Not even every first-pitch swing is bad.

Stop jinxing no-hitters!

54- the Rockies announcers, the are huge homers, one is dull, the other's a hick

Clemens left after five with an "injured leg."

57 It sure is nice to have a top OF prospect finally. Hopefully he can follow Laroche and keep the power in Jacksonville despite the patience

who should get minor league pitcher of the year for the dodgers?

how about hitter of the year? kemp or laroche?

60- I don't have a problem with a player swinging at the first pitch occasionally, but Kent does it all the time. If everyone swings at the pitch (and makes out), then the starting pitcher will be in the game for quite a while. Vlad Guerrero is obviously the exception.

so why is it so special that kim jogged to the plate that the announcer have to spend 2 minutes commenting about it?

I guess either 55 was a bomb or I'm too hip for the room.

67 - mild chuckle - don't get discouraged or cocky

65 Because they're idiots w/o anything else to talk about.

64- Billingsley
LaRoche, he's already in AA and has been relatively productive

I'm emboldened after getting printed in the Times today!

Sorry Jon I needed to jinx the Santana nono for personal reasons.

64
Billingsly and LaRoche

Denker really fell off or he might have been in the running. D Young might get some mention. It looks like he's had 3 hits a night all week and is upto 345. Have you noticed that he starts slow at every level and then once he gets comfortable he just rakes.

67 Probably my age showing itself, but I didn't understand it

59 Offspeed pitcher with slow FB + Coors = bad

"Barmes is a vicious competitor like Todd Helton"

They are trying to jinx Houlton "He has never allowed a GS in his career"

i commented about young on another board but i am kind of not impressed with his showing so far in vegas.

partly because his k:bb ratio is horrible and his walk rate per PA is horrible and his ISO of only 172 in vegas leaves a lot to be desired.

i guess i might be nitpicking, but i would like to see improvement in all those areas for young.

i wish denker didnt completely die in vero beach. now scouts and prospect analysts who wrote off his season in columbus as a fluke might think they are actually right.

The Mickey Mantle clone grounds out with bases loaded, but it's ok because he was hustling down the line

Houlton shows a pretty good ability to get out of jams, other than in the first (Don't have the stats, just an observation). I guess that's his strength over Perez, Lowe, and Weaver

Kent has had 180 1-0 counts alone this year. So before you even count the called strikes he has taken, he has taken at least 33 percent of the first pitches he has seen.

77- he has better makeup than those 3

75 Young's actually striking out less often in Vegas (from 22% to 20% of his PAs)

I still like Denker, he's still walking a lot. Lost his power it seems. I'll give him another year before declaring him a loss

We need to badmouth Repko more, no Kreuter effect...

78
Where do you get info like that?

no, youngs k rate is acceptable. but his k:bb ratio is like 30:7.

and his walk ratio per PAs isnt very good as well.

as for denker. i am not really worried. for example, look at laroche.

last year, he was very very good in the SAL then when he got promoted to vero, he stunk it up. then this year, it finally clicked and he destroyed FSL pitching.

i think denker will follow the same pattern to some degree next year.

My god, Robles is slow.

Robles is extremely slow

21-3 SC-Hawai'i at the half. Weirdest 1st quarter I've seen in a long time. SC didn't get the ball on offense till 1:20 left; they scored on an interception return on UH's first drive.

So Choi is fallible. Or someone told him to be aggressive again

84 - But I am fast!

81 - Kent's splits on ESPN.com

http://tinyurl.com/cd2wv

80
Lots of young players struggle when they move up a level. I'm not down on Denker at all, just said that if he had continued to hit after the promotion he would have been in the running for offensive player of the year.

Jon, are you in favor of swinging at the first pitch like Choi just did?

Choi's trying to do too much to impress the coaching staff. Where's the patient Choi?

Brewers up 5-1 as Houlton continues to have problems with location. Good job with the DP though

91 Padres! up 5-1

Robles is one of the slowest middle infielders in baseball. Since he does not have power it is one reason why he will have a career as a utility player and not a starter on a good team for any length of time.
If only our Mexican player had been Cantu who could have been had for a song in 2004 because the DevilRays had given up on him as a prospect. Slow but powerfull.

I chuckled at the grinders/hoagies line; if I wrote, 'LOL!' everytime you posted something funny, I'd get an email from Jon telling me to stop clogging the board and wasting bandwitdth.

94
Someone knows who's giving him a free ticket for Saturday along with a free ride.

I like the way you think!

Didn't Kim do that in LA? My memory may be bad but I seem to rememebr something like that

89 - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but seems like Choi hits .400 with 1.229 OPS swinging on first pitch this season. I think we're getting a little carried away complaining about swinging early in the count.

hahahah. thanks kim.

Huh... That was weird. Whatever.

Okay, I'll go with bokonon's reasoning :)

Very nice AB for Saenz. Now why the did he go to 3rd?

Why??? That was horrid!!!

i guess the cycle wasnt meant to be for saenz.

What, was Olmedo trying to recapture his youth, or something?

So asterisks, like these things (>< reversed), don't appear on this site...

that slide from Saenz reminded me of Mickey Hatcher's slides (full speed flop) back in the 80's.

At least Saenz probably wouldn't have scored (Valentin may have hit him in, but I really doubt it)

107 Maybe not, but it was still bad baserunning. Not quite as bad as Helton getting thown out by 20 feet at home, though.

Pads are up to 6-1. Looks like we're staying 6 back at best

Houlton has no strikeouts tonite. Thats a very bad sign.

Houlton 5bb's and 0k's. Playing with fire tonite.

Houlton walks Ardoin again. His control is pitiful at best. Without the full effect of the off speed pitches, he's not going to K anyone (save Kim). I'm writing this off as Coors effect.

Kim is really struggling at that. And Navarro is proving he does have one heck of an arm

I thought that the batter-runner had to drop the bat by the time he touched first otherwise he's out.

Kim ran with his bat, so I guess not.

Good time for that 1st K. Houlton is a battler.

There's a K, despite the fact Barmes swung at more balls than strikes

DJ gets out of it again. I'm not sure if he's nibbling because he's in Coors, or if his control is just that much off.

houltons using his change more. that pitch has gotten a lot better since the beginning of the year.

90- maybe Tracy told Choi that he would only play him if he was aggressive

Navarro better be for sure he can get that runner at 3rd. Because with already 1 out, it seems like an unnecessary risk to try and get that lead runner on the bunt.

Kent's been seeing 3.57 pitchers per plate appearance. That's not great, but it's not Vladimir Guerrero bad (3.25). He's ninth on ESPN's list of 17 qualifying 2Bs, in #P/PA.

The thing is, even if he's not taking a whole lot of pitches (which is, at most, a secondary priority), he's doing his main job well, getting on-base to the tune of .374, OPSing .888. Getting on base will most always causes more pitches to be thrown than taking a lot of pitches, but not getting on.

Who tampered with the bats? They're shattering them...

That sure was a scrappy double play.

wow, tiffany now has 8bbs in 6IP to go along with 9Ks. what is his problem?

Why do the Rockies play Ardoin over JD Closser? Is it because Ardoin is a heady (minor league) veteran. Closser is already a better hitter and has some potential. That was not clutch by Repko.

Stooge 1: "Kim is a very hard worker"
Stooge 2: "Maybe too hard of a worker"

and ISOpedroza hits another homerun, thats 12 in 170ABs while in columbus.

124- what is his problem?
Command ;)

121- Wow; I hadn't even realized how great Kent is. 3.57 pitchers per PA? Talk about eating up the bullpen. . .

121 128 Yeah... Teams bring up a few AAAA pitchers just to deal with him.

Cesar Izturis 3.64 P/PA

Kent is not patient

125 Closser is worse than Phillips defensively. Ardoin, however, can play defense. Why Greene doesn't start at least is what confuses me

Bullpen?

And DJ crumbles. Hopefully we don't go 7 back...

Bad 0-2 pitch by Houlton.

Ugh these announcers are horrible. Every Rockies player is a gold glover and an all star.

Now Houlton gives up a 3 a run HR.

Hawpe for MVP! (Rockies announcers)

And he's still in there for what reason? To make sure we go 7 back. C'mon, this is terrible

132

Take him out! (I'm talking about the Rockies announcer)...or slip some roofies in his coffee.

This is ridiculous

Hawpe is a good young player. DJ just didnt have anything tonite. Way too many base runners. Not enough strike outs.

And the HR's were the knockout blow.

7 out might be all she wrote.

What?? That went off Valentin's glove!

If Kim hits a deep drive, homer or otherwise, then will Houlton come out?

Izturis is 12th out of 23 qualifying SS. Izzy isn't as hacky as he gets credit for being, in part because he's gotten a lot better over the years. He's improved by at least a tenth of a point every year. If only his OBP could keep pace with his #P/PA growth, he'd be pretty good in a couple of years.

139- agree, Hawpe is one of the few young players on their team with some potential (Hawpe, Francis, maybe Barmes as a 2B)

Tracy is stubborn. But then again surely DJ can get Kim out.

Tracy please he's done... Geez. Talk about leaving a guy in too die!

Wow. Just wow. Why is he in there? It should be 4-1, not 6-1. Too bad for Houlton, but Tracy needed to take him out way earlier

and of course Carvajal

The Dodgers record against the Rox this year is terrible!

146 Seriously... He hadn't been close all night, and had thrown ~95 pitches. Poor pitching, but poorer managing.

So is this the night that the Giants pass the Dodgers and start their eventual conquest of the West?

Also, is Hurdle's prediction for a sweep accurate?

149- does anyone care? Will Tracy start playing some of the young players if we are completely out of it?

USA 2, Mexico 0

The US has qualified for the World Cup in Germany in 2006.

Jimbo gets credit for 2 runs that inning.

The Dodgers have lost to Kim and Kim. Has anyone ever lost to two Kims in the same series in the history of baseball?

152 Care about what? I'm already onto next year.

153 - that was a good game. should have been 3-0 but Beasley missed an easy breakaway at the end. Had that game on PIP while watching Dodgers.

155
I bet it's happened a few times in Korean baseball.

155 Florida lost to both on the same day earlier this year. They didn't lose to Sunny per se, but they did lose the game he started

So now what will ESPN2 do? Will they force us to watch the end of the USC rout over UH or do we get to see the entire UCLA-SDSU game, which starts at 7:15.

158
Probably every series

Awful game for HSC.

Tonite might be Choi's worst game of his career. He deserves to be benched for swinging at the 1st pitch.

Whats gotten into him?

156- ooops that was supposed to be directed towards 150

Choi deserves to be benched after this game

At this point, is 2nd or 4th the better spot? I like the prospects of the higher draft pick, but I want some respect for the Dodgers

165- I don't care as long as the young players play the rest of the way

Seems like just a few days ago were 4.5 out. But the Padres are hott and were just average. Going to be a tough road now. Staring at 7 games behind.

Pretty much forces the team to have to sweep all the games left with the Padres.

Because, you know, the Dodgers want extra baserunners when they're down five in the 6th inning.

The Rockies and hitting and running up by 5 in Coors?

Lowry walked Clayton and gave up a home run to Cintron to start the game and the DBacks are up 2-0.

Keep hope alive!

How many innings does Dessens go? Tracy needs to use him as a long reliver, thus preventing him from pitching for the next several days

Why has it suddenly become fashionable to bash Jeff Kent?

Kent has a career .354 OBP, he developed patience this year and has been the only bright spot the Dodgers have had. His .374 is the highest he's had in his career aside from his MVP year.

Working the count is simply a means to getting runs. If Kent can create runs by swinging at the first pitch, let the man hack.

166 With Tracy, the youngsters include Phillips and Edwards

This should be a shutout but for the fact that BHK is a spazz.

I thought last nite's game was ugly, but tonite is just as bad.

Jose Cruz please take a walk. We need baserunners. Not outs.

Yes... The catcher will beat out a bunt for a base hit. Brilliant.

3-0 AZ on an RBI single by Terrero.

Navarro seems really impatient today. He's swinging at garbage

172- Kent has not been consistently patient. In April he was a monster 17 BB 6 K 1.100 OPS. In May and June combined he walked 13 times. In July he was solid. In August his walk rate was good, but he was being pitched around a lot and sometimes refused to walk and chose to chase bad pitches as seen by his 26 strike outs in August. Kent can be patient when he wants to be he'd rather be aggressive (often swinging 3-0), to pad his statistics. Compare Kent's approach at the plate to Cruz and Navarro's. You'll see a big difference.

These last two games kinda eliminate any good momentum the team came in with.

Bad games from Weaver/Houlton.
Bad lineup last nite.
Bad execution (Choi) from the team tonite.

I dont know.

3-0 Diamondbacks and with the Padres most likely winning and the Dodgers falling, if the Padres take it tomorrow for some who have been in denial like myself, it will finally sink in.

179 Amongst players who qualify for the batting title, Kent leads the Dodgers in Isolated Patience.

Amongst all players on the Dodgers, Kent is fourth behind Navarro, Cruz, and Choi.

I also never said that he was consistently patient.

There's also no basis to the claim that he's padding his statistics. If the man swings 3-0 and gets a hit, good for him. Especially since he's more likely to get out if he swings.

200. Tonite I'm most disappointed in Choi. He finally gets start and just has a terrible game.

I honestly hope the whole coaching staff is let go this season. I dont think Wallach is helping. Tracy is a lost cause.

Jim Colburn I dont really see as a miracle man either.

ESPN believes that we still want to watch USC slaughter Hawai'i instead of watching the start of the UCLA game.

I know I find listening to stories about why Jerry Glanville won't wear an aloha shirt stirring.

Does anyone know what happened to Brent Leach? Was he shut down? Injured? He hasn't pitched for awhile (something like 9-10 games I think), and it seems odd that Ogden would stop using their best pitcher in a playoff race. I liked him despite his age

Tracy has no idea how to use Dessens. Now in a close game, we get Carrara

Hawaii is still in this one. They only need about ten points per minute. That's doable, right?

AP channelled Beltre in that at bat. OUCH!

Okay, so it's more like twenty points a minute, now. Still, I've got a good feeling about the Warriors. What was the point spread, anyway? Is this just a service to the gamblers?

I believe the line was USC -35 or around there.

The Trojans are still going to cover despite this late touchdown.
I call the Rainbows, by gummit! If it's good enough for all the other teams, then the football team can use it too.

What happened to Werth's patience as well? I know he K'ed a lot last year, but I remember him also walking some.

Who would win in a race Oscar or Phillips?

"A special play?"

It was well fielded, but the throw was about 20 feet.

Yawn

190- Werth is walking MORE this year
Last year: .092 BB/PA
This year: .113 BB/PA

Jayson Werth had 30 walks last year in 89 games.

191 Robles. He doesn't have to deal with wind resistance from his tongue

195- Choi could probably lap Robles running around the bases

I hope USC misses the PAT. I had Hawai'i +45!

Randy Winn homer makes it 3-1 Arizona.

Great throw by Repko, not in time though

*Valentin

LOL! We got to miss UCLA's first TD.

But we got to see Desmond Reed's TD. And a meaningless kickoff return by Hawai'i.

Boo!

Fight on! (I know people will hate this!!)

Nice Kent, smart veteran play right there...

4-3 Giants after a 3-run homer by Alou.

brazoban's lost it, who cares the game is over and the season is over.
dessens is used in a meaningless game, he's our best or 2nd best reliever, depending if you think sanchez is better, and if we have a tight game tomorrow dessens wont be in it because tracy used him today in a meaningless game.
just pointing out another tracy blunder, the season is over but i'm still keeping track of tracy's blunders.

Brazoban=Esteban Yan?

Great, even the roider gets an RBI

I'm officially in College football mode. I'm beyond acceptance to the Dodgers this year. My one meager hope is that USC can repeat for a third time. Their pass defense seemed pretty weak against an obviously inferior Hawaii team. They better improve when they start playing some real teams.

Dessens is our best reliever in the pen right now. 2.90 ERA.

If anyone's still watching the game, can you please explain "Choi miscatch error"

Aybar PH for Choi, why not for Kent?

Kent made a barehand grab and tried to throw out the runner at first. Choi stretched for the ball, but it popped out of his glove.

Kent swings at the first pitch, trying to hit a HR, pads his stats, down by 10

What do we do with Brazoban? Without an effective pitch, he's terrible. He doesn't have much trade value outside his youth, unlike last year when we could have got anything for him. With Gagne, Broxton, Dessens, Sanchez, Kuo, Schmoll, Osoria, Wunsch, and who knows what else, I don't feel we need him, but with an offspeed pitch he could be pretty good. Would it be too impatient to trade him if a good offer presented itself. As far as Moneyball goes, he is just a reliever...

214- trade him or send him down to the minors (next year). He's not a major league caliber pitcher without an offspeed pitch or breaking ball. Look at what Sanchez's changeup has done for him. Brazoban doesn't even have good command with his 1 pitch.

So we've been outscored what 22-4 these 2 games?

213- I can't tell if you're kidding. He hit a double. Isn't that, like, a good thing whether you're down 11, up 23, or anywhere in between?

The bullpen next year should be Gagne, Sanchez, Schmoll, Broxton, Kuo, Dessens.

Broxton I have a lot more faith in than most because he does have 3-4 pitches. If he throws strikes, he's dominant.

Sanchez is better since adding the change.
Gagne is Gagne.
Dessens is pretty reliable.

I still like Schmoll.

Kuo may or may not work out. But not a bad guy to have as mop upper.

San Diego magic number: 21

217 A double in this situation only serves to pad your stats. A walk or an out is the only acceptable thing in that situation.

Brandon Wood is looking far more mortal in AAA. So far he's 0-7 with 4 Ks, all in Las Vegas. The tough pitchers he's faced include Harold Eckert (0-3, 1 K), Pat Mahomes (0-1, 1 K), Alfredo Gonzalez (0-1, 1 K), and Scott Erickson (0-2, 1 K)

215 Brazabon has been somewhat exposed and does need to learn another pitch, but it seems to me with the type of fastball he has had and some of his success he is worth sending down to learn a pitch or if we got the right person back a trade. The problem I see for next year is if our prospects will be ready. If the Suns go out quickly in the playoffs-that actually might be the best thing for the Dodgers to then see who is really ready for next year and who needs more seasoning. September right now is not looking good

So the Dodgers will miss Lowry next week? The series is M-W.

I'm going Wednesday. That should be Schmidt's start. I assume the Dodgers will face Hennessey and Correia in the other two? Or will Cain be starting?

223 No Cain, he's tomorrow

So what day does Penny come back? Monday?

Penny, Lowe and Weaver against the Giants?

225 MLB.com has Lowe going on Monday

Lowe, Penny, then Weaver?

Regardless I think I'm looking at a Weaver-Schmidt matchup Wednesday.

The crowd could be ugly. They may start beating up the people collecting money for the Red Cross.

ABC news is reporting that Cheif Justice William Rehnquist is dead.

228- link to a web report:

http://tinyurl.com/bonp7

Now the White House will be very, very, very, very (x200) busy.

Along with every news organization in the United States.

My condolences to his family.

at what point do the dodgers throw out the towl for the season, give the young guys time, and play for as high a draft pick as possible. Last time i checked the dodgers would have the 7th pick in the draft should the season end today.

The Dodgers have 18 more wins than the Royals, so I doubt the Dodgers can sink too low. The Giants, Dodgers, and DBacks will probably all have similar records.

That Dodgers-Pirates series at the end of the year could be big!

But this isn't the NBA. It's not like there's a guaranteed player you can draft who will turn your team into an instant contender.

I've never agreed that Supreme Court Justices should be appointed for life. Just never seemed logical to me.

As people age, their mental capacities deteroirate along with their judgement.

Why on earth would you want those people dictating how law is applied?

233

You should refer your complaints to James Madison c/o Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

the dodgers have to go 20-7 the rest of the season to be 500, the padres have to go 13-14 the rest of the season to be 500.
there is definately more than 7 series left in the season, so the dodgers not only have to take 2 out of 3 in each series but also have to sweep a couple or a few.
this season is over folks.

Toward the end of the NY Times obit for Chief Justice Rehnquist is this:

He liked beer

Granted, there are lots of other things reported, but I found that little passage funny.

I can imagine living a long life, accomplishing a lot and then have an obituary with a line like "He liked Diet Coke".

233 - That was the subject of a pretty good West Wing episode. It guest-starred Matthew Perry. The White House was encouraging an ailing Justice to retire when he encountered recurring health problems.

It's very possible that the episode was written with Rehnquist in mind.

How much postage is required to get the USPS to take a letter 217 years back in time?

Does UCLA have any players who aren't named Drew? Not that I'm complaining, their Drew collection seems to be getting the job done.

238
They didn't use postage back in the 1780s, so I'm not sure.

237

If justices are considered to be unable to perform their jobs, it is the practice for the other justices to take that person aside and tell him/her that it's time to go.

That's what happened to Oliver Wendell Holmes.

238 - I don't think the Post Office has any DeLoreans in their delivery fleet.

Or the budget for flux capacitors.

The DBacks had the bases loaded and one out in Arizona, but Lowry got out of the inning.

The game is in the 7th. And now Arizona is using its bullpen (gulp!)

Giants up their lead to 5-3.

Any thoughts to Kevin Kennedy managing the Dodgers next year. Even though I don't think the Dodgers will fire Tracy or that he will opt out-how do you think Kennedy and DePodesta would do. Two really bad games at a crucial time of the season and all of the Tracy mistakes aside they seem flat now.

244-- i just want a sabermetrics type manager, i don't care who as long as its a sabermetrics type, if that is what kevin kennedy is, i'm all for it.

god bless renquist, a good conservative judge, he will be missed by me at least.

Were these games really crucial? The Dodgers chances of winning the division when they came to Denver were fairly remote.

The Rockies have been playing well lately. Better than the other teams in the West. The Dodgers aren't rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. They're just changing the toilet paper in the restrooms of the Titanic.

Giants up 6-3

8-3 Giants.

For the A's fans, the Angels just allowed a game tying single in the 8th. Donnelly will get the BS

245. I've heard Kevin Kennedy say some things that would go against the philosophy of moneyball on FSW. There have got to be a few managers out there that would manage by moneyball philosophy just to get the job. Otherwise they'd have to hire someone from the SABR convention.

246. The games were crucial in my mind. Headed into the rarefied air the Dodgers held their own fate in their hands. After tonight's loss they don't. I hope they get it back to 6 games out or less when they face the Padres. Otherwise it's over. But to answer your question... yes these games were crucial and you are correct to say that their chance of winning the the division were fairly remote. If you want to dance with the hot chick at the night club, asking her is crucial.

vr, Xei

9-3 Giants. Randy Winn with his second home run of the game.

Is there really such a thing as a Moneyball manager? I understand that there's such a thing as a manager who wouldn't start Phillips at first, or bat Izzy lead-off. Is that all it takes to get the Moneyball seal of approval?

Outside random people at the SABR convention, the best way to get a SABR manager would be from the minors in my opinion. I had a post in the last thread discussing it. Most minor league managers want a chance in the majors, thus they'd be more willing to be a "moneyball manager." However, most of them wouldn't accept a sudden transition from tradition to stats, so there would have to be faiely extensive weeding. They'd also (in general) be more than willing to use youngsters and listen to the GM.

Even after that rant, I'd still prefer Ron Washington. After him, there's not many names that I really like. Orel might be nice just to see what he can do, and he would be widely accepted by the media. I don't want Kennedy, just as I don't want Baker

Is it too soon to declare UCLA the new Tailback U?

252 Setting up proper line ups is one part. A "moneyball manager" would also rarely use hit n runs, non pitcher sacrafices, and stuff like that. When we throw around the term, I think it laregly means anyone whose style is different from tradition, guys like Tracy, Sciosca, Alou, Baker, Piniella, and Torre. And someone who has some idea how to use a bullpen (this really has nothing to do with moneyball), like not burning out your best reliever for 3 IP every 4 days in meaningless games, or using a LOOGY at every possible time

I really do hate the term moneyball associated with manager, unless you're comparing value from Macha and Piniella. We need a better term

The Mariners have taken a 3-2 lead over the Angles

252. There's a little more to it than that. I am no expert on moneyball, but a few things that pop into my mind are not bunting so much, especially bunting in the first and second inning. Also do not bunt with your 2nd best hitter and then take the bat out of the hands of your best hitter and team leader by doing so. Do not come up with stupid statistics with incredibly small sample sizes as reasons for doing something. Start your best players, do not worry so much about defense unless it is an extreme case. When deciding which players are the better hitters, look at stats like OPS and OBP, instead of BA with RISP. When you have a dominant reliever/closer, use him in situations where the game is on the line... where more is at stake than being up by 3 runs in the 9th with nobody on base. I will admit that JTracy isn't the only bad manager, but he's ours and he's our problem. I won't blame him for us not winning the division, I will blame injuries first. I understand the PR perspective for the Dodgers and how they might look bad by firing JT, so we may have to live with him for one more year. vr, Xei

The Dodgers are now 7 games behind San Diego and 7 games ahead of Colorado.

But if you are upset with the way the Dodgers are playing, take heart. The Dbacks are playing much, much worse. And the DBacks were in first in August!

It's now 6-2 Mariners. Smallball's bullpen is really BLOWing it. Bob hasn't updated the Giants score in a while, what's this world coming to!! :) vr, Xei

UCLA has a decent shot at outscoring USC today. However, USC would have scored more if they actually had the ball in the first quarter. USC was on offense for only three quarters essentially.

Delwyn Young has 1 more AB to extend his hitting streak, he's 0-3 with a walk and an RBI ground out

The Angels brought in Jason Christianson with men on the corners and 1 out. Two batters later, it's 6-2 Mariners and still 1 out. Looks like a steal for Stoneman

Bottom of the 9th in Arizona. 9-3 Giants.
Scott Munter in for the Hateds.

Why the DBacks are doomed.

The first two batters this inning are Tony Clark (who has struck out) and Royce Clayton.

to me there is a difference between moneyball and sabermetrics, moneyball is getting the best bang for your buck, sabermetrics is just overall best ops offensively and pitching no matter the cost of players.
moneyball is for gm's that have a budget and they use sabermetrics, but they have to get players within their budget.
sabermetrics is for managers to put the best ops lineup out there day in and day out, and use their bullpen accordingly to sabermetrics.
just my opinion on it.

it would be nice if we had a budget of 25 million more and with depodesta as the gm and with a sabermetrics manager, that has championship writen all over it.

263 So we can all agree we need a SABR manager rather than a moneyball manager? The difference being we can have a manger making $5 mil if he's willing to do SABR stuff rather than a $300K one

Faint murmur of protest:

RBI single by Luis Gonzalez makes it 9-4.

And it's back to third place for the Dodgers:

Giants 9, Diamondbacks 4.

Beltre just made the last out of the inning. Is that a surprise?

253 perhaps heard an interview a few weeks ago where Washington said he really wanted to manage. I never realized his ties to the Dodger organization and he really seemed to love the team and the organization, this might be a good pick. While there are aspects of Money Ball I embrace, there are others that I question and since I am a pragmatist, I think there will need to be a manager who has ties to the Dodger organization but also may work better with DePodesta-Washington could be it, not sure what Orel would do.

I believe the Giants have been ahead of the Dodgers in the standings since Opening Day (4/5).

To me sabermetrics was a topic discussed and written about in a book called moneyball. The book just covered the basics of sabermetrics. Sabermetrics can be something used to obtain a team of cost effective players or what might be considered the most efficient team based on the amount of money an owner is willing to spend on salary. Sabermetrics can also be something that a manager can use for in game strategy and picking his starting players. imho, Xei

269. In the race for last place? :) A typo from the master? vr, Xei

Delwyn Young has extended his hit streak to 16 games! Only has 2 left on the season, then he'll have to extend it in another league or next year

Left out some words in 269

The Giants have not been ahead of the Dodgers in the standings since April 5 ... I think.

272. What's the minor league consecutive game hit streak record? vr, Xei

I leave out words all the time. I just spell the words correctly! :-)

274
I think a guy named DiMaggio had a long one for San Francisco.

275. You should leave out words more often, then we can fill them in, in a mad libs kind of way. vr, Xei

274. Never heard of him. How long was it, and what was the name of the team? vr, Xei

Joe DiMaggio, at age 18, had a 61-game hitting streak for the San Francisco Seals in 1933.

Vlad just doubled in a run, Erstad is the tying run at the plate. Grounds out to end the game as I type

Delwyn's hit came off his teammate from a few months ago, Jason Olsen. Not a good choice by Stoneman (or whoever's bright idea was to sign him as an extra name) to smite the Dodgers

279. Wow! That guy seems to have a penchant for hitting streaks. Wake me up when Delwyn or whatever his name is hits 50.
vr, Xei

279 So Delwyn only has 45 games to go. Do Dodgers/winter league games count?

280 - was Vlad just padding his stats? :)

Don't overlook Tony Lazzeri's line from Salt Lake City in 1925: 60 homers, 222 RBI and 202 runs.

It was a really long season back then.

Scott Erickson has taken over the worst ERA on the current Vegas roster. O-rod gave up some runs, so Carlyle is the best. If we keep Vegas past the current agreement, I'd be amazed

lets say depodesta gets washington to manage the dodgers (im pretty sure beane would allow him to be interviewed), what are the chances of rick peterson coming to town, his buddy howe got fired last year, and i think the mets signed him for two years. I would be very excited about ron washington as manager, moneyball's answer to willie randolph. Dream offseason;

tracy and colburn traded to CIN for aaron harang
ron washington: manager
art howe: bench coach
ron peterson: pitching coach
keep wallach (im not as hard on him as some are)

sound nice?
piching

what about moving the AAA team out of the PCL all together. I think moving it the affiliation to jacksonville or orlando wouldnt be a bad idea.

I think we should definitely move the AAA team out of Los Angeles. :) I could care less where they move it to, just move it.
vr, Xei

Horrible game for Choi tonight, 0 for 3 swinging early in the count. Plus the error, which will give Tracy all the excuses he needs to give Choi a permanent seat on the bench.

4 runs in 2 games in Coors. Pretty pathetic.

There are only two AAA leagues. So you're stuck with either the PCL or the IL. It takes a few years to get cities to change leagues. Somebody would have to take an existing AAA team and move it to Orlando or Jacksonville and then you'd have to rearrange all the leagues.

Los Angeles holds the record for most PCL titles: 14.

290 Does that mean the Los Angeles Angels of the PCL or the Dodgers' PCL team?

The Los Angeles Angels (and their predecessors).

Would Orel Hershiser as Dodger manager be a possibility? How's he done with the Rangers pitching staff? Pretty tough assignment he has there... Kinda looks like Tracy... I wonder if the Dodgers simply replace Tracy with Hershiser and not tell anyone if anyone would actually notice....

The thing that turns me off about Kevin Kennedy is that pretty much every time he appears on television, he reminds us he used to be a manager. Kind of the way Jeff Torborg used to mention every time he announced a game that he caught this no-hitter by Sandy Koufax.

In fact, not only is it a turnoff on Kennedy's part, but it makes me wonder if, once he got another managerial job, that he would over-manage to justify his existence.

Kennedy has never said anything on the air that makes me think he would be an improvement over Tracy.

As for Ron Washington, when I read Moneyball, I got the impression that he kind of chafed under the Beane philosophy. I could be wrong.

As for Ron Peterson, I've gotten the sense that Met fans would be only to happy to run him out of town. I could be wrong there, too.

As for Hee Seop Choi - if he had a bad game, well he was hardly the first Dodger to do so.

286 - "tracy and colburn traded to CIN for aaron harang"

I first read that as "tracy and colburn traded to CNN for Anderson Cooper"

I don't think CNN makes that trade, by the way. I think they'd hold out for "tracy and hepburn"

Jeanne Meserve's trade value went up the most of anyone on the team this week.

Just got back from tonight's AAA showdown between Portland and Tuscon at PGE Park in Portland. The D'Backs affliate won 4-1 with a 3-run 9th inning. Before that both teams had identical lines through 8: 1 run, 3 hits, 2 errors. Neither team had a bat that was impressive. David Ross started at catcher for the Beavers and went 0-3 with a walk. Shawn Estes, who must have been on a re-hab start, got lucky, pitching around a bunch of walks. Thompson, the Beavers (Padres) starter actually had a no-hitter through 5 2/3 until he gave up a bomb to right. However, I didn't think his stuff was that great. We sometimes complain about the immediate talent in Las Vegas. I don't think there are any saviors for SD or AZ in AAA. Unless you would be rooting for a 2nd coming of Manny Alexander.

i actually had a dream last night where i was complaining to a dodger bench coach about jim tracy. he didn't have much to say, understandably. oddly enough, last night was the night where i officially stopped caring about the dodgers' 2005 season.

284 ...or the inimitable Joe Bauman of the Roswell (NM) Rockets in 1954:
.400 BA
.916 SLG
72 HR
224 RBI
150 BB
in 138 games! (Lazzeri had a 200 game season in Salt Lake)

he had an off year in 1955:
.336 BA
46 HR
132 RBI

He retired in 1956, never playing beyond A ball. Clearly a candidate for the 4400.

Thanks to the Sporting News and BaseballLibrary.com

223 Tuesday's game will now feature Tomko rather than Correia

I didn't realize Orel doesn't have a job next year, as he's unsigned and the Rangers haven't made much of an attempt to sign him