I remember my brother and I being so excited about getting Davis. What a disappointment.

Random Dodger game callback

September 4, 1931

Two old friends (and sometimes bitter rivals) faced off against each other at the Polo Grounds. But it wasn't just a meeting between the Dodgers and the Giants. This game would be one of the last meetings between two of baseball's most famous managers: John McGraw and Wilbert Robinson. The two men, who had been teammates, business partners, manager and coach, then rival managers who had a long personal feud, were both wrapping up their careers. And on this day, McGraw bested his former teammate as the Giants won 3-0 before a crowd of around 10,000 behind a shut out from Bill Walker. The loss dropped the Dodgers to 68-62 and 15 ½ games behind first place St. Louis and in fourth place.

The Giants scored first in the fourth inning. Bill Terry led off with a single that Brooklyn right fielder Babe Herman played into a double. Catcher Shanty Hogan then lined a single to left that Denny Sothern tried to shoestring, but it went past him and Terry scored to make it 1-0.

In the seventh, Mel Ott singled and Travis Jackson doubled him to third. Robinson ordered pitcher Watty Clark to intentionally walk Johnny Vergez to load the bases. McGraw then sent up Ethan Allen, who later became more famous for developing the tabletop game "All-Star Baseball", to pinch hit and he singled in two runs for the final margin of 3-0.

McGraw and Robinson were teammates on the Baltimore Orioles from 1891-1899 and then again in St. Louis in 1900, before they both went back to the new AL Baltimore Orioles in 1901. McGraw left the Orioles in the middle of the 1902 season to take over the Giants and Robinson finished up the season in Baltimore.

Robinson joined McGraw with the Giants and served as his coach from 1903 to 1913. The two men had an unexplained falling out that year and Robinson moved over to manage Brooklyn from 1914-1931. During that time, the Giants beat the Dodgers 197 times with the Dodgers winning 190 times. But McGraw won 10 National League pennants and 3 World Series while Robinson won 2 pennants and no World Series. McGraw would retire midway through the 1932 season. Both McGraw and Robinson would be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Wilbert Robinson's last Brooklyn team would finish the year 79-73 and in fourth place, 21 games behind the Cardinals, who would go on to win the World Series. The Dodgers won their last game of the year, 12-3 over the Giants.

The 1931 Dodgers were led on offense by its corner outfielders. Left fielder Lefty O'Doul batted .336 with a .396 OBP. Right fielder Herman batted .313 with 18 homers, 16 triples and 97 RBI. Center fielder Johnny Frederick hit 17 home runs.

Al Lopez, a catcher like Robinson who would make the Hall of Fame as a manager, was behind the plate most of the year for Brooklyn. Rookie Ernie Lombardi was the backup, but the Dodgers would trade the future Hall of Famer to Cincinnati in the off-season along with Herman.

Clark led the Dodgers pitchers with a 14-10 record and a 3.20 ERA. Hall of Famer Dazzy Vance had a 3.38 ERA, but could manage only an 11-13 record. 48-year old reliever Jack Quinn was 5-4 with a 2.66 ERA and saved 15 games.

Robinson, who was 68 years old, stepped down as manager at the end of the year. Coach Max Carey took over as the Dodgers manager in 1932. Robinson would pass away in 1934.

Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

I give Eric Davis a pass because he was injured all the time in L.A. and I've heard him apologize that he wasn't able to play as well as he could when he was in L.A.

The guy on the left, I have issues with.

Man, I'm going to have to come up with something next year to complement RDGC. Fact of Choi ran dry in May, I think. I love RDGC.

Yeah, I remember 1992. I went to about ten games; five as a member of the press. Karros getting the ROY was about the only highlight. Lord, what an awful team.

Dodgers at noon today? Here's something I might do instead...

1. Go to the dog park.
2. Water my mom's plants (she's out of town)
3. Prepare for my teaching assignment at Locke High School (pray for me, each and every one of you!)
4. Study history. Apparently, that's what I'll be teaching at Locke... temporarily.
5. Train my son to go deep in the count and make contact on hit-and-run plays. He'll be a perfect number two hitter.

SB,
And what famous Dodger attended Locke High?

Small sample size alert:

Current Rockies vs. Edwin Jackson
Barmes 1 for 3
Closser 1 for 4
Hawpe 1 for 3, HR
Helton 2 for 4
Miles 2 for 4
Mohr 0 for 1
Piedra 0 for 4

Current Dodgers vs. Zach Day
Choi 3 for 6, HR
Cruz 2 for 7
Kent 1 for 5
Ledee 3 for 4, 2 HR
Phillips 1 for 12
Valentin 4 for 5, HR
Weaver 1 for 2

3 I have sympathy for any addict in the sense that they are not in control, the substance is. The first of the twelve steps is always the toughest, IMHO: powerlessness over drugs and alcohol. The addict cares nothing for anything except getting high. It's tough to equate addiction with disease since the only person that can "cure" the addict is the addict. But a disease it is.

That's probably the best thing that can be said about Strawberry. Because he's an addict, he has my symathy, as anyone with a disease would. I don't know what kind of human being he is. I doubt if even he knows.

There's a part of me that will be sorry to see Milton Bradley go. But I wasn't at all sorry to see Strawberry leave town. As a Dodger fan, I remember thinking, "Godspeed, take care and thank heavens!"

Strawberry's addictions were complicated by the fact that he said extraordinarily hurtful things about his hometown without even thinking.

Yes he could have been high, but he could have turned on the TV somewhere and found out that a sizeable chunk of his city was on fire.

5 Why, that would be Mr. Warmth himself, Eddie Murray. If he ever comes to visit, I'll walk in the opposite direction. However much his teammates loved him, he was rude, boorish and just a flat-out punk to most members of the press, including Jim Murray.

Orel Hershiser told me Eddie Murray was a helluva guy. For a while, he was my favorite player. I realize I'm holding on to a grudge for being brushed aside rather publicly by Murray--twice--but I really have no use for him.

I see that picture and think of 3 loathsome Dodgers of yore.

I can't fault a guy for performance (though I can hope he's traded or released).

But saying a city can burn.

But a millionaire that says someones wife and kids are scabs?

A guy who laughs when a peer throws a firecracker in to a crowd.

Three loathsome Dodgers

4 (3) I'd gladly pray for you, Bruin, but I don't think Jim Tracy will play Him anyway, so it won't make a difference.

8 You're right, of course. "Let it burn" was monstrous and should've been treated as such. Whether that's Straw the addict or Straw the man is difficult to figure.

An addict I cared deeply about said something rather hurtful about my son. It was behind all of our backs, I found out he said it and I thought, "I'll kill this bastard." But who's really saying it? This guy has been clear for over a year now and Bob, trust me when I tell you, there is nobody you'd rather hang around with. Just a great guy. I never called him on what he said about the kid because I honestly don't think he'd remember saying it. It's not like I was the only one hurt by him, by the by.

If he had a microphone next to him, he would've been rightly lambasted by press and public for saying a callous thing about learning-challenged child. I'm glad he didn't because I value the relationship I have with him now.

Don't get me wrong--I'm very, very, very glad Strawberry has nothing to do with the Dodgers. But it takes a really sorry excuse for a human being in the midst of a city-wide fire to say "Let it burn." Strawberry may very well be such a person, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if he was high at the time.

What was unlikable about Butler? He was on the downslope, but I always thought he was a darned good leadoff guy.

Uh, third sentence, second graf should read "clean" and not "clear."

He ain't a scientologist, thank heavens.

off topic but what do all of you think about this article in la times.

Many Dodger followers aren't convinced Cesar Izturis is an effective leadoff batter, pointing to his below-average .302 on-base percentage and 50% success rate on steal attempts.

But since Izturis went on the disabled list with a sprained lower back Aug. 23, Manager Jim Tracy has struggled trying to find a suitable replacement.

Oscar Robles is the obvious answer because he is batting .312 with a .379 on-base percentage in 125 at-bats at the top of the order. But Tracy prefers Robles batting second, noting his ability to get deep in counts and make contact on hit-and-run plays.

"He is adept at everything a hitter needs to do batting in the two-hole," Tracy said. "He is excellent there."

Maybe it is only a statistical oddity that Robles is batting .231 in 104 at-bats in the second position. His on-base percentage plus slugging percentage (OPS) is .814 batting first and .533 batting second.

Antonio Perez, who leads the Dodgers with a .318 batting average, a .373 slugging percentage and is 10 for 12 in stolen-base attempts, is an attractive option to lead off, but the Dodgers don't trust his defense at third base and Jeff Kent plays second.

That leaves Jayson Werth, who is three for 16 with two walks and eight strikeouts in the leadoff spot. Overall, he is batting .246 with a .337 on-base percentage and leads the team with 11 stolen bases.
--------------------------------------------
tracy says robles is excellent in the 2 spot.
well i checked robles obp in the 2 spot its a dismal 288 obp with over 100 at bats.
and obviously more criticism about antonio perez defense at 3b.
tracy is so hung up on defense,speed,hit and runs ect., and all it does is hurt the team.
tracy is such an abombination of a manager, i can't wait till he's gone.

13 The way he handled the Mike Busch situation rubbed a few people the wrong way. Also, Butler said what I thought were some asinine things about Piazza, "a typical 90's player." Butler had a low opinion of Piazza because, I think, Mike earned a great deal of praise for his play. That made him seflish, I guess.

I liked Brett as a player and lord knows I don't want people going over things I said the last fifteen years but he was not always Brett the beloved.

11 As usual when you post, :). Funny stuff...

A lot of people didn't like Butler for his treatment of Mike Busch.

Butler also resented the presence of female reporters in the locker room. But he wasn't as obnoxious about as Kevin Brown was.

Then again, most of us aren't as obnoxious as Kevin Brown.

I wonder if Jason Phillips will start today after I saw his numbers against Day. I think he might just because Navarro needs a rest. But I think the Dodgers would be better off giving Rose a start if Navarro needs a rest.

15 I'll tell you what I think. I think Tracy is addressing the team he has now, in front of him. Of course, Izturis is not the ideal leadoff hitter. He's not the ideal hitter in any spot in the order unless it's eighth.

But then we have to ask ourselves, in light of last season, what good is there in saying that now? Not much unless you want to alienate Izzy. So, he'll say Robles is an excellent number two guy to placate Izzy... and he'll continue to hit Robles leadoff from now until the end of the season or whenever Izzy comes back, whichever comes first.

18 I've stayed in touch with a couple of freelancers over the year. I'm told no one was as obnoxious as Kevin Brown.

20-- so am i hearing you right.
are you saying tracy is saying robles is an excellent 2 spot guy because he can't wait for izturis to return so he can go back to izturis 1 and robles 2.

also i know a guy who is alot better in the 2 spot and his name is choi.
but tracy doesn't care, tracy's just concerned about the awesome hit and run combo of izturis and robles.
i'm on the brink of hatred towards jim tracy.

A Perez
Robles
Kent
Saenz
Phillips
Cruz
Werth
Valentin
Jackson

vs

Barmes
Sullivan
Helton
Holliday
Hawpe
Atkins
Closser
Quintanilla
Day

1992, the year I got to go into the press box and onto the field a few times with my brother, who had a press pass. Fun to sit in the press box and see Vinny, Drysdale, Al Campanis, Joe Ferguson. Exciting to watch a game from the photographers' well near the visiting dugout. But disturbing to be on the field watching the players interact with reporters. I must admit, eavesdropping on an interview of Brett Butler, I grew to loathe the man. He spoke as a religious man who was convinced that God especially liked him. And the reporter sitting next to him was uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, tell me more--reinforcing Butler's self-image as the Specially Beloved. It was a game against the Mets, so Strawberry and Gooden were hanging out on the field together--two enormous men, thin as rails but packed with muscle. But the reporters around them were also being sycophantic groupies, and it was obvious that this kind of royal tribute was what these players had come to expect. The team overall just seemed like a very unpleasant cast of characters. On his worst day, Paul DePodesta could not have assembled a group with less chemistry and less character than the '92 Dodgers.

lineup today
perez 3b
robles ss
kent 2b
seanz 1b
phillips c
cruz rf
werth cf
valentin lf
jackson p

22 I don't even know if I'm hearing me right! :)

I think Tracy is careful not to sound critical of a hurt player that he thinks highly of so he'll say Robles is a helluva number two hitter (a compliment, in a way) and that leaves the door open for him to use Izzy as leadoff. If Izzy struggles when he gets back, he'll make another move.

In a way, it highlights the main criticism people have of Tracy--that he is reactive, letting circumstances dictate his actions rather than being a problem solver. Whitey Herzog never let a problem get out of hand before he would try to solve it. As a former reporter, I found Herzog to be even more loathesome than Eddie Murray but as a Dodger fan, I would like it if Tracy adopted some of Whitey's proactiveness.

I wonder if Saenz can take two starts in a row, especially after running to third yesterday, trying to stretch a double into a triple.

23 My point all season. Play Choi, for chrissakes.

From the SAT:

Tracy is to the Dodger lineup as Bush is to New Orleans.

25 That's as good a summary of the '92 Dodgers as one can expect. One reporter I knew said the '92 Dodgers did what nobody thought was possible--they made John Candelaria seem nice!

(By the by, I liked Candelaria though I was literally alone in my thinking.)

It's pretty clear that Tracy is systematically opposed to starting Choi and Perez in the same lineup. Hopefully, Depo is pulling his hair out over this. I can't believe he lets Tracy get away with this.

I looked quickly at the cover of the LA Times Sunday magazine (which is about as far as I ever get with it). I see a black and white photo of a houndstooth hat. I'm wondering why they are doing a story about Bear Bryant.

Turns out it was just a male model, who looked almost, but not quite, entirely unlike Bear Bryant.

I watched too many college football games yesterday.

another choi benching against a righthander.
good to see perez in there tho.
is valentin in there over ledee because of ledee's hamstring or is it just another tracy blunder.
does navarro really need a day off, isn't there an off day coming up.
phillips batting 5th what a joke.

what i would do for the rest of the season
perez ss
choi 1b
kent 2b
ledee of
seanz 3b
cruz of
navarro c
werth of

robles giving seanz rest here and there, and batting 8th, everyone bumped up one spot.

I wonder if Don Sutton and John Candelaria talk to each other. Candelaria acccused Sutton of ratting him out to the cops when he got picked up for DUI because he said Sutton wanted to keep his job on the Angels.

Now that's some high quality denial!

32 "Perez and Choi in the same game would be too much of a downgrade in defense"--Tracy

Anyone know of any other team that has their three outfielders hitting 6-7-8 ?

36. Never mind the constant offensive and defensive downgrade that Phillips brings to the table. And what, pray tell, does Valentin have to offer in any facet of the game? For some reason, Tracy's unique brand of (il)logic only applies to certain players.

37. I noted that earlier in the year on another board. I also pointed out how unique it was to routinely pinch-hit for first basemen and catchers.

The LA Times Editorial page has two editorials in it today. One is a lengthy one about Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

The second one is about how teams like the Dodgers should sign guys like Milton Bradley. The New England Patriots were held up as the shining example of a team that has all good guys on it and is successful

The Brewers got a hit and a walk to lead off the first against Peavy.

Then Peavy went K K K.

I gave Prince Fielder very little chance of hitting Peavy. Fielder is batting third today for the Brewers.

To me, 1992 was the beginning of the Dark Ages for the LA Dodgers. The Koufax/Drysdale 60s', the Garvey/Cey 70s, the Fernando/Orel 80s' gave way in that year to a period of confusion and disappointment from which they are just starting to emerge with the Evans/Logan White/DePodesta moves to rebuild the farm system. But that's no sure salvation: Remember the supposedly fabulous achievement of five consecutive ROY's that started off the decade? It meant nothing in the end. Of the five, only Nomo sticks in my mind as a great Dodger. What we need is a recommitment of the team, from McCourt on down, to "the Dodger way of playing baseball." Since the Dodgers' demise in '92, other teams picked up on that style of building a team--most notably the Indians and Yankees of the mid-late 90s, the Angels leading up to 2002, and to some degree the A's. The team needs to re-learn what its students can teach us.

Okay, enough hot air from me...

Are the Dodgers playing tomorrow? If not, then today is my last game until next weekend. Heading up to June Lake in the eastern Sierras Tuesday morning for some trout fishing and hiking. I'm taking my Labrador with me. He LOVES the lakes up there. The area seems to be Giant territory. It probably has something to do with L.A. stealing all of their water. When I get back, I expect to see our team fighting it out for last place.

Twilight start at Dodger Stadium against the Giants tomorrow.

Then another day of torture for me :)

38 Tracy has faith in some players, that they'd work their way out of slumps: Izturis, Phillips, Saenz, Werth, Valentin. He has no faith in others. Even when they're playing well, he thinks it is a fluke: Perez, Choi, Cruz.

Anyone also notice that the three starting outfielders have batting averages under .246?

Of course, this is an improvement over the Cody Ross Period, when we had a few games where all three starting outfielders were hitting under .200

not enough power in our lineup today.
perez 1 hr in 73.3 at bats slg 432
robles 261 at bats slg 360
kent 19.6 at bats slg 516, there's power
seanz 18.6 at bats slg 536, there's power
phillips 36.8 at bats slg 375
cruz 0 homers 56 at bats as dodger slg 411
werth 38.9 at bats slg 393
valentin 66.5 at bats slg 286

Padres lead 1-0 in the 3rd.

For the first time this year, the Dodgers do not control their own playoff destiny. If the Dodgers won all of their remaining games (not just the Padres games ALL of them), there is still a chance that they would miss the playoffs.

http://tinyurl.com/cn3oz

Milwaukee's inning so far:
Double by Fielder
Single by Lee, Fielder to third.
Jenkins grounds out to Nady at first who throws out Fielder at the plate for a DP.
Hall walks
With Branyan, Olivo bounces his return throw to Peavy off of Branyan's helmet moving the runners up.
Branyan is intetionally walked.

And Chad Moeller pops out to end the inning.

Choi is 3 for 6 with a HR against Day.
Phillips is 1 for 12 against Day.

Tracyism at its best.

good ol' grounded into double play by phillips

Seems like DPs are going to hurt the Dodogers. Day's sinker must be working pretty good

i know alot of you like robles, i don't particularly care for him, and we all pretty much agree about phillips and valentin being horrible.
look at today's lineup, we don't have 3 good hitters in a row, unless you like robles.
since i don't like robles, i see 1 good hitter then 1 bad hitter then 2 good hitters then 1 bad hitter then 2 good hitters then 2 bad hitters.
how do you get something going with that kind of a lineup, and people wonder why the dodgers leave alot of guys on base.

and when i say good, some are better than others, and when i say bad, i only mean it about phillips and valentin and the pitcher, robles isn't bad, but nothing to get excited about, i like more power than robles has.

Somebody has to play catcher. I don't think Phillips is playing in place of Choi. He's playing in place of Navarro.

Everyone sometimes gets so blind to their Jim Tracy rage that I wonder if most people here have an effigy of Tracy they burn every night.

I think you can get an effigy down in the Effigy District of Los Angeles.

I just turned the game on at the start of 3rd. Has Jackson topped 90mph yet? Where is the velocity from his previous couple starts.

57 Jackson is a very good hitter, better than Valentin or Phillips at the very least

Both pitchers now have a hit, and every Rockies SP has a hit in the series

in my opinion robles is playing in place of choi, valentin in place of ledee, phillips in place of navarro

choi 1b kent 2b perez ss seanz 3b, the rest is self explanatory.

Not again. A 2 out rally started by Zach Day of all people.

the rockies are half way to putting this game out of reach, our pitifull offense can't even score 4 runs.

Steiner's going to be on Best Damn, that'll be interesting

The Brewers have singled and doubled for a run with no outs, 1-1 tie

What happened to Jackson's fastball? He's nothing if he only throws 90-91.

67 The FSN2 radar has been off for awhile, it's probably faster than 90

67-- stuff like that makes you question the pitching coach and the rest of the staff.
sometimes i wonder if cleaning house as far as the coaching staff is in order.

Why is Velentin playing? Even Repko is a significant upgrade. And, he can actually play center field, unlike Werth.

just because jacksons velocity is only 89-90 we should fire all the coaches?

There's nothing wrong with Jackson's fastball. The radar gun being used on tv is about 5 MPH too slow.

69 I'm for it. I feel that Tracy has likely contaminated all who he has worked with. Best to start anew, just to be sure.

71-- stuff like that should get fixed, if there is something wrong then fix it.

I actually thought Jackson was looking fairly sharp. The hits were a bunt single, a grounder between third/short, a bloop over 3B, and the triple that would have been caught by even a mediocre center fielder...

Brewers have taken the lead 2-1.

68 - The other night the Rockies broadcast had all of Kuo's fastballs at 5mph faster than Fox was displaying. I was wondering if that's the case again today and if so, which is accurate.

69 - I seriously doubt the dodger pitching coach has anything to do with Jackson maintaining his velocity. He's only been up with the dodgers for a couple starts this year.

72 How do you know that? I haven't seen him throw one fastball by anyone today.

Kuo was getting clocked at 95-96 the other day. Does that mean he was throwing 100?

Ha, now he can't ground into a DP

If you want a reason to fire the Dodger pitching coach, their names are Lowe, Perez, Penny, and Weaver. He's had months to work with them and they are still inconsistant and sucky. He's only had a couple weeks with Jackson...

78 - Kuo never threw above 90 or 91mph on the fox gun the other night. The Rockies broadcast is where he was throwing 95 (their gun was 5mph faster than Fox).

wow, surprise phillips doubled.

when i watched kuo, he was at 89-91... i forgot if it was the rockies or dodgers broadcast though.

77 I'm watching the Rockies broadcast today and he's only throwing 90 to Kuo's 95. Same gun.

78 - although Kuo has been clocked as high as 99 mph in Jacksonville :)

just wasn't throwing that hard the other night.

78 Does Coors have an effect on fastballs as well? I imagine that altitude might take a little something off as the visiting pitchers will surely be more tired to start out the game.

Cruz singled in 2 somehow according to Gameday. Bad time to lose connection

80-- i agree, i'm not just picking on the coaches cause of jackson but other things too.
what about teaching brazo another pitch, all he has is a fastball.

yea, my feed died... did we win?

84 - that's my original question - Is the Rockies gun showing the same as Fox TODAY because Jackson doesn't appear to be throwing all that hard and he's going to have trouble if he is really working in high 80s. The other night it was definitely 5mph faster.

86 I'd think thinner air would allow for more velocity, hence the increased HRs.

* i agree, i'm not just picking on the coaches cause of jackson but other things too.
what about teaching brazo another pitch, all he has is a fastball*

colby cant throw the change up for brazoban. they are trying to teach him a offspeed pitch, but its not their fault if he sucks at it.

89 Almost, we tied it. Those watching the Rockies broadcast, what's happening? How did both Saenz and Phillips score on a single?

Announcerless, graphicless, one camera baseball. How nice. Better than a blank screen. Werth hits an infield single...

91 I doubt the thinner air would have much of an effect on the short distance from the mound to home plate. But, if you've ever spent time at altitude, you'll notice how quickly you tire. It's even difficult for some people to get a good night's sleep right after they arrive from lower elevations. So, I wonder if that's enough to take the edge of a pitcher's fastball.

cruz is well over 400 in obp as a dodger, he came into today's game at 403 obp.

90 What I'm trying point out is that I watched Friday's game and am watching today's game on the Rockies' FSN broadcast, and Kuo was clocked at 95-96 to Jackson's 90-91.

IBB for Valentin. Jackson is the better hitter...

yay, we gets the Rockies announcers now! What happened to Vin?

are the rockies idiots?

id rather pitch to valentin than jackson.

I would never intentionally walk Valentin to pitch to anyone...except maybe Cristian Guzman...

Anyway, Jackson showed a decrease in velocity last season due to injury/poor mechanics. I'm worried that he may be having similar problems.

When I constantly read about the line-up problems posted on this site I really wonder what DePodesta's plan was for some of these players. In my mind Perez was always going to be a utility player based on comments that DePodesta made last year. Choi also was in the mind of DePodesta a platoon player-this year. With all of the injuries this obviously changed, but DePodesta to our knowledge has said very little. So I just don't get it. At some point I will love to hear the DePodesta analysis of the season......The 92 team was a dissapointment for many because so much was expected from Davis and Strawberry. Despite his resuragance in Baltimore, in my mind Davis was never the same after the injury in Cincinatti and that team was a marketing team doomed for faillure. This years faillures are far more complex and Dodger historians will have fun trying to figure out all of the problems.

Anyway, Jackson showed a decrease in velocity last season due to injury/poor mechanics. I'm worried that he may be having similar problems.

yea but in jax, he was perfectly fine.

97 - bottom line is on Friday's game, Kuo was clocked at 95-96 on Rockies FSN broadcast and 90-91 on FSN here in Los Angeles, hence the 5 mph difference on Friday. I am 100% certain that this was the case, as I was chatting with my brother who was watching the Rockies FSN broadcast as I was watching the FSN broadcast in Orange County and we were surprised at the 5mph difference we were getting.

Could be that today there is no difference in the guns.

and with that, let's not beat it to death.

Has Colborn ever tried to teach anyone a slide step or a pickoff move?

106-- that's another example of coaching blunders.

Trainer out to talk to Jackson, this doesn't look good

okay now im worried, hes only throwing 82 now...

I think I can get Wallach and Colborn effigies as part of a package deal for those upset with the rest of the coaching staff.

105 I still don't think you are understanding me, but I agree to drop the subject now.

110 You better not forget Glenn Hoffman!

Phillips had a decent throw, although he had it stolen even if Robles holds onto it

If Jackson were throwing 95-96 today, I think we'd be seeing more swings and misses. The strikeouts I recall so far were looking.

How about John Shelby? Has he yelled "Get back" properly this year?

115 Shelby is okay with me. I think he's ready for a promotion to third base, if his rotator cuff can handle it.

Jackson is not healthy right now. His fastball has nothing on it.

What's with the 2 out rallies? Something doesn't feel right

there is something wrong with jacksons delivery that i dont like.

It sounds like we think Tracy has hoof and mouth disease. And when something like that happens you have to kill the whole herd.

The Padres just tied it on double-sac bunt-single in the 8th. Davis still pitching, Peavy is long gone

his arm speed is nothing. its like hes lollipopping it up there. i am really concerned.

Davis just made an awful throw to first on a pickoff, man on second with 1 out for the Pads

Purcey - Is EdwinJacksonville in your dream rotation?

120-- bullseye.

Perez is having a Choi like game. Why did they decide to stink this series?

120 Someone has been feeding Tracy the ground-up corpses of other lousy managers.

127
That's mad cow. You're confusing your livestock plagues.

128 I think he has 'em all.

Tracy has turned me into a mad cow.

129-- i agree. LOL

Oh thank $deity. Vin's back.

This is weird...we get Vin Scully now!

Where's Steve? When he's here my rage diffuses into him, and I feel happy again.

Matt Wise got the Brewers out of the inning, striking out both Johnson and Greene. 2-2 heading to the bottom of the 8th

I think I see a touch of it in Phillips and Robles too. Just to be safe, we should put them down as well.

Maybe Jackson is fine physically, but he's been taking intensity lessons from Odalis Perez.

135-- you're in denial, king. LOL
i'm just frustrated, don't mind me.

136 Don't forget Repko, Edwards, and Izturis.

Steve had an argument with a guy in the Effigy District and he got tossed in County Lockup for a day to cool down.

He told the propietor of the store that his effigies didn't look like they would call for bunts often enough and he wanted one that was more lifelike.

Mayhem ensued.

The Reds have an amazing OF right now which includes Jason LaRue in right...

Griffey was hurt and a PR replaced him, not sure what happened (injured foot/ankle according to Gameday)

I think I have to root for SD from here on out to ensure that SF stays out of the playoffs.

I'd like to paint Odalis with the H & M brush too.

wow. Jackson is throwing batting practice today.

Another 2 out, 2 run "rally." Jackson just isn't right

A public relations guy replaced Griffey??

Hmm.....

that's the ballgame.

I knew that would happen. Jackson had nothing. He was throwing 87 MPH fastballs.

143 Marty, can you take Odalis "fishing" with you this week?

142

Icaros, the Giants are making the playoffs.

There is also no Santa Claus.

And it's a long, long, way on Holliday Road.

Yes...it was going to be almost impossible for this offense to score 4 runs in colorado...6 is insurmountable.

151 You're still on the hook for LA finishing ahead of the D-Backs.

Just getting underway in Phoenix:

(GULP)
Russ Ortiz pitching for the Dbacks against Matt Cain.

Ortiz gave up a leadoff triple to Randy Winn.

a whopping 6 runs scored in 2 and 2/3 games in colorado, the place where runs come easy.

And the Giants lead 1-0.

150 That would mean Odalis is Fredo, Icaros.

Brewers squeezed in a run, they win 3-2. Otsuka looks injured or really pissed off. Either way he's laying down motionless on the ground

Besides, the lake I like to fish at, Gull Lake is very small. If I took care of Odalis in the middle, someone from the shore could see me.

Otsuka's on his feet, so he wasn't hurt too badly diving for the squeeze

158 He is now.

The Rangers allowed 17 runs today...to the Royals

The Rockies will actually make things interesting today. I sense a DP very soon

[Darth Vader]
Your lack of faith disturbs me...

DP for Kent

Darth Vader was right... That's a much better way to pad your stats

Nevermind

hides

Good for Kent!

Well, I guess we got over that Hurdle.

That was not padding his stats!

152 I guess I was wrong.

denial! denial! denial!

Chopper has a bad weekend. Way too much early in the count hacking. Lets see if Jeff Kent can actually be clutch.

Kent swung at a 2-0 pitch, maybe he should have laid off of it...

Kent swung at a 2-0 pitch, maybe he should have laid off of it

i agree, he just killed the rally right there. he should have worked the walk and gotten the pitchers pitch count up.

175- different situation. If nobody was on base and there were 2 outs then I would say "Yes", but Kent was the potenial tying run. Should Kent swing 3-0 if the Dodgers are down by 4 runs in the 8th inning?

Jeff Kent can swing at whatever the hell he wants to swing at.

177 - You'r missing the sarcasm there, UM

i like this move that tracy just did, i've been waiting for him to do this for a long time.
he made a double switch putting dessens in the spot that made the last out so dessens can go 2 innings and then straight to the closer.
he has finally put dessens as the set up man and he's finally using dessens for more than an inning to go straight to the closer instead of fooling around with someone else.

178 - Except for Milton Bradley. That would so not be cool.

179- I saw it, but I'm describing a situation in which it wouldn't be a good time to swing 2-0, 3-0. I never said that Kent should ALWAYS take 2-0.

Walk Helton?

Just hope Dessens isnt worn out. Why he pitched last nite I'll have no idea?

184- Tracy likes to use his best players in blowout games, and worst players in close games

184-- yep, i forgot about that.

Werth made that way to close

Werth almost messed that one up. Nice job by Dessens, but he isn't out of it yet...

Nice inning by Dessens

How great has Dessens been? I believe he has a pretty cheap option for next year too.

190 The option is $1.3 million. A little more if he can manage about 10 more starts this year. I have no problem with bringing him back, but it's mutual so he has a say

Dessens was used out of necessity. Carrara is not with the team.

192-- uh oh are you saying carrara is the set up man, not dessens.
oh yea now that i think about it before carrara left for personal reasons tracy used carrara in the 8th.
i guess i gave tracy too much credit, i spoke too soon.

Werth should steal. Valentin isn't likely to get an XBH.

I sense a Werth steal attempt coming up...

192
It's not that Carrara is the set up man, but that there is one fewer body in the bullpen.

Maybe run here

How did Werth not at least tag up on that fly to CF?

198 I believe he was running on the pitch

Werth should try to steal 3rd. Pinch hitting for Perez???

This makes plenty of sense...

At least defensive whiz Mike Edwards will now play 3rd

Tracy cost us another run as Navarro singles. Werth should have been on 2nd base. Gameday showed the ball Valentin hit was at the warning track.

Oh well, Ledee is the Dodgers best pinch hitter

Tracy's pinch hitting for Antonio Perez?

Why? He's got the best average on our team.

Werth would have had no chance on that, Sullivan made a nice catch

Wow. That was a pretty god catch. Rats.

-good

202
Unless of course Werth was thrown out stealing and then Tracy would have had the ashes of his effigy stomped and poked at it with a stick.

202 And it was. Sullivan ran forever to get it. Not sure how good his arm is

202- no that was a good pinch for Werth to run on and I doubt he would have tagged up on that flyball- he probably would have gone halfway and then gone back to 1B.

I HATE YOU JIM TRACY!!!!

I cannot wait till he's gone so AP/Choi get a real shot.

Pinch hitting for Perez? Makes no sense at all.

does anyone else vision martin platooning with choi in the future to give martin some time off behind the plate but keep his bat in the lineup and to give navarro plenty of time behind the plate?
assuming tracy is gone of course.

Hah! How many of you out there remember Silky Sullivan?

212- Martin has never played 1B. He was a converted 3B. Martin doesn't have enough power to play 1B.

Brilliant. Tracy just basically swapped Antonio Perez out, and Jason Repko in.

And people wonder why this team is 13 games below .500

215- Repko just comes in for defense so he won't bat for a while. Valentin is a better defender than Perez at 3B.

212. I've wanted Martin moved back to 3rd base for awhile. I cant imagine him being better than Navarro, but he his good enough to where you'd like to get him at bats everyday.

215--

Look at our DL for the year. Have you really heard people wondering why this team is 13 games below .500?

Even the groundballs seem to carry well at Coors.

That was a helluva pitch 2-0.

Why are we pitching around the Rockies catchers? Only Greene can really hurt you with the bat and he hasn't even played in the series

221 I don't think Dessens is pitching around him. I think he's missing with the breaking stuff.

I've wanted Martin moved back to 3rd base for awhile. I cant imagine him being better than Navarro, but he his good enough to where you'd like to get him at bats everyday.

not at the expense of laroche.

Lady Luck, you looking mighty, mighty fine!

The Dodgers get VERY lucky

Another good inning for Dessens. His ERA is now at 2.79

So, do we dare bring in Gasocan today?

i think by the time martin comes up, guzman will be at ss and we will have power at all 3 positions in the outfield and at 3b so the lack of power from martin at 1b when platooned with choi wouldn't matter.
we won't have izturis and robles sucking up the total power in the lineup.
martin is an obp machine.
martin in my opinion is going to be better than navarro, career minor league stats favor martin bigtime.
plus defense favors martin, not that i'm high on defense.

227. I hope not. Lets score 3 runs in the 9th and hope Duaner can save it.

does delwyn young have any speed and do you think we have antonio perez, aybar, or delwyn at 2nd in the future?

Man, if Kent had chemistry, he'd be a helluva player.

Not a good AB by Saenz...

delwyn young is short and chubby. he has no speed.

Olmedo that was a bad pitch to swing at no matter the count.

See what happens when you wait for your pitch? Kent worked the count to 3-1 and then got his pitch. Part of the reason why being patient is important is that you wait for your pitcher and not swing at the pitchers pitch.

Just as I type this Olmedo swings at the first pitch and hits into a DP.

I've never been a fan of first-ball swinging. And if I had the skills of Olmedo Saenz, I sure as heck would wait for a ball on the inner-half of the plate, rather than the outer half.

Do you understand, Olmedo?

231 - he is a helluva player. chemistry does not matter in his case

re: 235

what if your point is a pitch early in the count?

Smart move by Tracy to bring in Aybar.

At this point just run Dessens out there for a 3rd inning. I got more faith in him than the others in the pen.

230 No, he's 1 for 4 in SB chances this year

He did get another hit to extend his hit streak to 17. Only one game left for Vegas

230-- aybar has never put up any stats that jump out at you, he's not bad but no stats jump out at you.
perez or young at 2b, i like perez.

Wow Werth totally misplays that ball and still catches it.

Whatever it takes I suppose. At least he didn't crash into the wall and break his rib again

Werth is a Six Flags ride out there.

aybar has never put up any stats that jump out at you, he's not bad but no stats jump out at you

his low K rate and good k:bb ratio jump out at me.

besides, aybar played hurt most of the year. he was on and off the DL. he was much better last yr at jax.

237 Me was being facetious. Kent has been and is an incredible signing.

239 - rather put aybar at third and get jose valentins sorry butt out

237 He was kidding.

here comes barmeez

242- Aybar hit 15 HRs in a good pitchers park in AA at 21 years old. He has good plate discipline, gap power, and plays good defense. While he probably won't be a superstar, he could be a solid contributor.

245 I just rewound it on the TiVo. Unreal...

I thought Werth would really break out this season. Like everyone wearing a Dodger hat, injuries got in the way...

Big sis whippin' on little sis at the US Open. For those who care...

248 Tracy has no idea that Aybar is capable of playing 3B

Scott D'oh-mann

252 - i can see him as a 25-25 guy next year hitting over .270

Scott D'oh... aw man, Bob type too fast!

Giants have extended the lead 2-0. They now have 4 hits off Ortiz in 6 IP...

As a prospect Martin would have very little value at 1B or 3B. Even if he played spectacular defense, with a projected .270/.380/.380 type line, he would be below average at either position. If we really want a corner infielder, the best approach would be to trade Martin (a potential Gold Glove, .760 OPS catcher) for a corner infield prospect of relatively equal caliber.

Great AB by Willy

Good at bat Aybar.

go willy! its yo birth day, but jim tracy never will every play you again... but hes dumb so it does not even matter

#251: I agree. It's too early to write off Aybar. He is very solid defensively at 2B. Add to that his plate discipline and a little pop, and he could very well be an above average second baseman for 2007. Which, for league minimum, would certainly help the team tremendously since we could use the money saved to fill other positions.

Some good pitching there...

Terrible at bat by Cruz.

265 I think it was more good pitching by Homer's favorite pitcher. But that's just me...

Werth swung at a terrible pitch. I don't like the odds with Valentin up

An even worse at bat by Werth

It's stinkin' Mike Scott on the mound!

Werth is not the same player as last year.

Goodbye.

Werth, what was that?

werths biggest flaw: the K

Didn't Valentin say he can't hit for power because of his knee?

I-bar or A-bar?

That's about the best Valentin can do at this point.

274- EYE-bar

I've always heard I-bar.

A good gymnast is proficient on the high bar.

"Silky Sullivan." Man, I love Vin.

Navarro had his pitch

That's not good for one reason. After Sanchez pitches this inning (assuming no runs), we then have Gasocan, Osoria, and Kuo. Some good young pitching, just very unreliable at Coors. Osoria should get the 11th if we get there, at least he's a groundball pitcher

259. Isnt OBP worht about 3x what SLG is? So if Martin is OBP'ing .380, I'd think that would be still be valuable at 3rd base.

Ideally, I'd trade Martin for a #1 caliber pitcher.. (Roy Oswalt comes to mind).

278 Aybar you from any more puns. :)

281- Osoria gives a lot of hits. Tracy would use Brazoban, he has some major league saves. Walk Helton now!

282 - i do not think the stros would do that, because they like ausmus

Goodnight, Irene.

Well, Sanchez has been great, I won't blame him if the 3 Hs (Preperation H?) drive him in

283 Would you like to visit my barrio?

Brad Ausmus is the catcher on the all-chemistry team. Erstad can play either center or first.

Counting today's game, Werth has 22 strikeouts in his last 51 at bats, and he has struck out at least once in each of his last 14 games.

Double steal for the Rockies?

why have we given up on martin ever hitting for power. He hit 15hrs and 44 doubles in high-A ball. Last year a whopping 58% of his hits went for extra bases, for a 170 iso slugging.

288 I'm teaching just south of Watts, my man. I'm already there! The place might give me the "Willy's."

Thank you all, good night, I'm here all week.

285 I don't think the Astros would do that because they like Oswalt. Ausmus is really old.

Make him look silly, Duaner!

Yes!

Now Sanchez has to face a good hitter (Hawpe)

293 The money you make will still be green. Good luck.

What's the Rockies mascot? A triceratops?

297 And a lefty, which Sanchez has never been able to do much with. Not sure how he's done against them of late

298 Thanks for that. I'm into the gallows humor but truth is, I'm really looking forward to it.

299
Yes, I think he's called Dinger.

299 It should be Thing from The Fantastic Four, don't you think?

Keep throwing changeups, Duaner.

282. The argument that obp is more important than slug is that a team with 1.000 obp never makes an out, and therefore would score an infinite number of runs, while a team could slug 1.000 while creating outs and score a finite number of runs. The argument that slug is more important is that slug% correlates better towards scoring runs historically than obp%.

292-- exactly.
and i totally vision martin playing 1b vs lefties when choi sits, giving navarro plenty of time behind the plate and keeping martin's bat in the order and giving martin plenty of time out from behind the plate.
its a good thing when you have 2 very good catchers and its even better if you can get your starting catcher some playing time elsewhere occasionally if he's that valuable which i think martin will be. catching catches up to guys quicker than any other position.

"I'm so glad we had this time together..."

Too bad. Giants looking to go up 1.5 on us, now up 3-0

Giants now up 3-0 on an RBI single by Randy Winn.

He needs a homer for the cycle.

I knew Hawpe would do, he's a good young player, oh well.

should have thrown him the change up duaner!

309 Winn's SLG% since the Giants got him is ridiculous.

i do not know who to hate so I will go with the safest guess: Jim Tracy

Wow swept by the Rockies... Eh whatever.

Go A's.

I'm gone for 3 days (on a retreat). I come back to find we've been swept by the Rockies. Nice welcome home.

306. Thats an option, but we have no idea who will be the at first in 06 or 07. It could be kent, choi, dunn, or wilkerson, or someone else. I think well see, or we better see, a lot of changes this offseason.

Giants announcer "Tony Clark has pretty good speed"

313 Sullivan. All those anoying catches then the double

#292: Martin hit 24 2Bs, 1 3B, and 15 HRs out of his 104 total hits. I haven't given up on him hitting for power, but at catcher Martin's ceiling is a perennial Gold Glove All-Star, whereas at first or third base his ceiling is league average. If we're not going to use him at catcher, we should trade him for someone who has a similar upside at another position.

If we can't beat the Rocks, we can't beat anybody. Nonetheless, my official number for when ACCEPTANCE closes the crypt door is 8 back. At that point there is no hope.

That should be any day now.

from what i understand, depodesta loves choi.
from what i understand choi can't hit lefties (not what i'm saying).
seanz is getting old, plus i believe he is eligable for free agency soon.
we will have 2 very good catchers in martin and navarro.
catchers need days off behind the plate.
if choi can't hit lefties then who platoons with choi, a perfect fit would be martin.
i don't know, it just makes perfect sense.

Enough with the crazy talk. Martin is considered a great defensive catcher. He is better than Navarro. It is irrelevent that Old Bear just can't "see" that when he has not seen Martin, period. Martin is not going to be a first baseman, or a third baseman. He is not going to be a shortstop, or a pitcher, or a peanut vendor. He is a catcher. Live with it.

im not advocating using martin anywhere but catcher, why would we?

Vero Beach finshed the regular season well, scoring 12 runs on 10 hits and 4 BBs. Julio Pimental ended the season poorly however, allowing 5 runs in 2.2 IP, bringing his ERA up to a hideous 5.08

You know, ole pal Russ Ortiz actually pitched a pretty good game today.

322-- i agree, martin is not going to be anything other than a catcher, but i think the dodgers will keep his bat in the lineup by platooning him with choi, there are more righthanded pitchers than lefthanded pitchers, so martin won't see alot of time at 1b, but it will give him days off behind the plate which catchers need and keep his bat in the lineup.
and i also agree that martin will be better than navarro

322- Agree.

Scouts call Martin a "franchise catcher", while they consider Navarro good, but not in the same class as Martin. I see Martin as a Jason Kendall (pre ankle injury) like catcher with better defense. Martin should post a high OBP, hit near the top of the batting order, steal a few bases and play great defense. But before we hand Martin the starting catching job, the Dodgers should get a look at him and see how he performs in the majors along with Navarro. If/when Martin shows that he can produce in the majors, then the Dodgers can look to trade Navarro. I would keep both at the moment.

326- agree, kind of like how Lo Duca occasionally played 1B or LF on days that he didn't catch, but Martin will have to prove that he is capable of playing those positions. They aren't going to just throw him in there at a foreign position. Jason Kendall was a disaster when the Pirates threw him in the OF. Martin probably has enough athleticism to occasionally player other positions.

Martin could be up in the majors in the second half in 2006, but really, by the time 2007 is here, there won't be any platooning of Choi, since Choi won't even be a Dodger. Loney will be a fixture at first base starting in 2007, and he DOES hit lefties. Loney won't have as much raw power as Choi, but he has the sweetest swing you ever saw and there are no holes in it, unlike Choi's swiss cheese swing.

285. The Astros need a catcher. I dont think Brad Ausmus is in their future plans. Plus they already traded John Buck earlier.

i think trading a Martin and a few other pieces for Oswalt might be doable.

328-- yep, and look at phillips at 1b, i'm sure martin can do a better job at 1b than phillips.

329. No holes? Loney's not done much throughout his minor league career. And if you compare Choi's minor league #'s to Loney's, there's no comparison.

Nothing about James Loney's minor league #'s jump out at me that suggest he'll be better as a 23 year old, than Choi will be as a 27 year old.

It doesnt concern any of you guys that Navarro's putting up #'s in the majors, while Martin is a year older sitting still in AA ball?

Navarro will be starting his 3rd major league season in 2007 by the time Russ Martin joins him. (I bet Martin and the rest of the Jax Suns start in Vegas next year)...

Now it could happen. Johnny Estrada looks like a flash in the pan and the Braves may give Kyle McCann the job over him, even though Estrada was great last year.

But we'll see. I sort of want Martin and Navarro to both be in the lineup at the same time, especially if Martin OBP's .380.

If he OBP's .380, he's our leadoff hitter first and foremost. Whatever position he plays is secondary to the talent he has of getting on base and jump starting the offense.

I love the idea of a competition between Martin and Navarro. A Catcher Controversy! It will make both of them better, and up the value of the one we eventually trade. But that shouldn't happen til both of them have plied their craft in the major leagues so we can sort out the pretenders. Martin might be the better prospect, but I've been happy with Navarro, who seems to be playing as if he didn't inherit the job but has to earn it each day.

333-- i'm predicting an obp machine in martin and yes i'd love to see martin as our leadoff hitter, the guy can also run.
i think martin is going to be special.
i want to keep both martin and navarro and both as catchers, i don't want a chad krueter/paul bako/jason phillips starting once a week or so.
plus having martin at 1b against lefties only keeps both martin and navarro fresh.
catching is hardcore and catches up with guys in time.
and i agree with you about choi over loney.
no career minor league stats from loney jump out at me.

This could be our lineup in 2007:
1. Martin C
2. Aybar 2B
3. Drew RF/CF
4. Guzman LF
5. FA/Choi/Loney 1B
6. FA RF/CF
7. LaRoche 3B
8. Izturis SS (sorry oldbear)

336
martin c
choi 1b
drew of
bradley of
giles of
laroche 3b
guzman ss
perez ss

ooopppsss perez 2b

#336: I'd say Guzman in RF with Drew in CF. Guzman has a lot of athleticism and a strong arm.

I'm a huge fan of all the prospects you listed, but I'm not sure that would be a good lineup in 2007. In 2008 and beyond, definitely, but for 2007 you're projecting a lineup with potentially 5 rookies out of the 8 position players.

At his peak, Scouts think that Loney could be a .300/.400/.450 type hitter and a gold glove fielder. Canuck is probably underrating Choi, while some other people here might not be giving Loney a chance. He's only 21 years old. Depo might prefer a slugging first baseman, rather than great fielding first baseman.

#337: I like that lineup much better offensively. But, even though I typically discount defense, but do we really want a middle infield of Guzman / Perez?

333 -- OldBear has gone on record on another board saying he does not care AT ALL about defense, but neither the Dodgers nor any other MLB team are ever going to be run that way. Martin's abilities behind the plate are VERY important, and Navarro's offensive abilities are not overly impressive UNLESS he is playing catcher. There would be no excuse for having both Martin and Navarro in the same line-up.

332 -- Loney has been hurt most of his three year minor league career, and Choi never played in any minor league parks that can be considered pitcher's parks, which are the kind of parks that Loney has been in since 2002. Both statistically and scouting-wise, Loney has shown much better contact skills than Choi ever displayed in the minors, like Choi Loney is patient at the plate, and his defense is Gold Glove calibre, while Choi is an immobile ox in the field (which defensive attributes Oldbear does not care about but the Dodgers do). The Dodgers believe Loney's power will increase as he fills out his lanky frame. Choi never had that kind of frame so his power developed much sooner.

333

It may be of concern, but let's not forget that Navarro was signed in 2000 and Martin signed in 2002. Essentially, Navarro has played professionally for 2 more years than Martin.

It's all up to Royce Clayton now in Phoenix.

3-2 Giants with 2 outs in the 9th.

And the Padres magic number does not get lower for a change.

Giants win 3-2 and move to within 5 1/2 of the Default Champions.

#340: Baseball America has suggested that Loney is starting to lose some of the scouting community. The line you gave may be his ceiling, but a more realistic peak would be something like .280/.360/.430 with Gold Glove fielding. Not too bad, but I'd still bet on Choi to outproduce him for 2007.

341-- that lineup is going to score runs, so what if we give up an occasional run here and there because of errors.
also perez is a 2b, and a good defensive 2b, not a wizard defensively, but good defensively at 2b.
the deal with guzman is that he is a free swinger with power, you move him to any other position other than 2b and his value drops drastically in my opinion.

but i'll take a free swinging power guzman anyday over a low obp no power slap hitter izturis at ss.

346 -- Loney's "peak" batting average is not going to be .280. In his prime years, Loney's "floor" batting average would more likely be .300. Just like Olerud and Mark Grace.

#342: Hee Seop Choi at 21 years old played for West Tennessee in the Southern League. At 21 years old, James Loney is currently playing for Jacksonville in the Southern League.

Choi (2000 AA): 122 AB - .303/.424/.623
Loney (2005 AA): 496 AB - .282/.357/.415

Obviously there's still a difference in ballparks and Choi's sample size is small, but it seems hasty to totally discount Choi's minor league performance.

337- that's a horrible defensive infield. Guzman will not stay at SS, Perez will not be a starter (at least under Tracy), and Bradley won't be back NEXT year, let alone in 2007. Aybar stays. He is the Dodgers most complete 2B prospect, combining gap power, plate discipline, and solid defense. Aybar is a perfect number 2 hitter because he's patient, makes contact, has good plate discipline, and decent speed. He's the type of player that Tracy will love (assuming that he's still here in 2007). Delwyn Young is all bat and no glove. He'll probably be moved to another position where his bat isn't as valuable or he'll be traded. Billy Beane values defense good defense up the middle and is willing to sacfice some hitting (Ellis, Kotsay- though he's having an off year).

Oldbear, which team would you rather have?
C Navarro
1B Choi (at his peak)
2B Delwyn Young
SS Guzman
3B A. Perez
LF Martin
CF Drew
RF FA
or
C Martin
1B Loney (at his peak)
2B Aybar
SS Izturis
3B LaRoche
OF Guzman
OF Drew
OF FA

#349: I think the difference is somewhat semantics. I agree that Loney's ceiling is around .300/.380/.450. But, I think it's much more likely he peaks around .280/.360/.430. Here's hoping that I'm wrong and you're right :).

#343: I believe age is a more important indicator than time in professional baseball. Martin was drafted out of college, so he does have additional baseball experience.

350 -- I have heard West Tennessee's park described as pretty hitter friendly by the standards of the Southern League. Jacksonville has the MOST pitcher friendly park in the league.

I do not "totally discount" Choi's minor league peformance. He definitely did well in the minors. I do believe, however, that there are reasons why Choi and Loney's stats cannot be compared without ADJUSTING for certain differences in circumstances. I have conceded that Loney will never have the sort of raw power that Choi has. I simply believe that Loney's ability to hit for superior average, coupled with superior defensive ability, trumps Choi's power adavantage and makes Loney the preferable player for our organization. I am also considering that Loney has not burned up any MLB service time either.

#351: As a compromise, I'd be fine with the following lineup for 2007.

C Martin
2B Perez
CF Drew
3B LaRoche
RF Giles
LF Guzman
1B Choi
SS Izturis

If Tracy is still manager in 2007, I don't think I'll be able to watch anymore.

I like the Giants more than I like JT.

#354: Ok. We're close to being on the same page. My contention is just that Choi is a safer bet for 2007. Long term, I'm still committed to Loney.

351-- aybar's career minor league stats not including this season 254 ave 338 obp 386 slg 724 ops.
does anything their jump out at you?
antonio perez career minor league stats 278 ave 366 obp 449 slg 815 ops.
perez beats aybar in all categories.
so you think tracy will still be around in 2007, if that is the case then the dodgers will go nowhere for awhile.
tracy is a cancer that must be removed.

Izturis has to be Tracyproofed. He's ruined since he has to lead off, though hitting eighth he's fairly useless too. If Guzman absolutely has to move (BOOOOOO!), what happened to the Asian kid? Or given that Tracy will still be around next year, does that question answer itself?

There's an easy solution, make every baseball traditionalist PO'd and implement the DH throughout the MLB. Then we get Choi and Loney =)

Also, for those who know more than I, can Aybar play SS? If he can't/hasn't, and he were to move there, would he be capable defensively? That would solve so many problems...

And are we all assuming Young and Ruggiano are 4th OFs/trade bait?

I forgot to ask in 360, could Aybar handle 1 year at SS until Hu is ready in (presumably) 2008? The switch wouldn't have to be permanent

Loney was not happy that we don't trust his power, so he hit an RBI double.

Steve,

Say some more bad things about Tracy. I miss the humor, and you haven't been updating FJT as much since you painted your skin green and gold.

355- now the question is, how much of an offensive upgrade is Perez over Aybar and is Perez's superior offense worth the decrease in defense? I see Perez as a .290/.360/.440 type player, while I see Aybar as more of a .270/.340/.410 type player. Or to make a major league comparison, who would you rather have as your 2B (not considering health or age)
Ray Durham- (.808 OPS) .296/.364/.444
Luis Castillo- (.752 OPS) .296/.386/.366

358 -- Aybar's career minor league record is misleading. The Dodgers had him playing at levels he was too young to be expected to perform at in the first three years of his career, and he never played in a hitter's park till this year (and as his luck would have it, he has fought a nagging injury all this season). By contrast, Antonio Perez has tended to play in hitter-friendly parks, and injuries kept him out of action long enough so that he is now three years older than Aybar.

What should be kept in mind about Aybar is that he played 2B in Double A at age 21, just like Jose Vidro, and his numbers were comparable to, or better than, Vidro's, adjusting for Vidro being in the more hitter-friendly Eastern League.

I've been on vacation - still am, in fact, but find a few minutes here and there. A's Nation has decided it is pro-bunting now too, which has me contemplating hockey.

By the way, I recommend "The Book On The Book." Particularly p. 61.

366 I just don't want FJT to jump the shark. The FJT movement is at an all-time high and getting stronger.

You could become a cult leader if you play your lineup cards right.

I can see it now, my own line of FJT tennis shoes

368 Yeah, his face could be on the soles, smiling or looking confused. People would walk and run in them all the time to make him go away. Then they'd need to buy a new pair. Goldmine!

The FJT movement is at an all-time high and getting stronger.

It hasn't needed me for quite a while. It breathes on its own.

It wouldn't even take a lot of creativity. You could just steal from the anti-Bush propaganda, like shirts and bumper stickers that say: "Somewhere in Ohio, a Village is Missing It's Idiot."

Or superimpose JT's face onto the Scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz, above the caption: "If I Only Had a Brain."

Kid stuff...

If I didn't have everybody working on Grabowski-related studies, I could get a marketing arm to work on it.

why doesnt werth apear n the lneups? he could be 20/20!

373- I don't think Werth needs laser eye surgery

374 Considering his path to some easy fly balls and his constant swinging at nothing, he probably could use laser surgery

Bob,
If you look at the standings, I'm 2 Games away from my preseason prediction of how the teams would finish....However, I'm way off on the wins and loses. That's why they call it the National League Worst. (West)

I just wanted to remind you of this. :)

Swept by the Colorado Rockies. How much worse can it really get? However, Drew McCourt is doing one hell of a job!

The Rockies are going to San Diego ... again ... this week. They are bound and determined to keep the NL West down.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rockies win that series. They've won 3 of their last 4 series.

I've decided I'm rooting for the Rockies to win the NL West this year. I'd much rather see them have a miracle run in the playoffs than the totally undeserving Padres, the Hated Giants, the deadly D-Backs or even our own Dodgers--my heart wouldn't be able to take seeing JT manage a playoff game by putting Phillips at first, Izturis leading off, etc. I'd rather wait til we have another offseason or two to haul out the garbage. The Rockies give the division its only vibrancy, and their surge should worry all the other complacently bad teams.

So, what's their tragic number? They obviously need to sweep San Diego, then they'd be 10 games out. Is there any scenario where this is doable?

If the Rockies were perfect for the rest of the season (26-0), they'd finish 81-81. The Padres would have to go 12-14 to finish below .500. The magic number of the Rockies is 14. If the Rockies swept the Padres the rest of the way, they'd still be 6 games out. It's unlikely, but that would be interesting. I'd root for them

Colorado going 20-6 and San Diego going 8-18 has the same effect, assuming the Giants or Dodgers don't suddenly start playing well enough to pass San Diego on its way down. So it's remotely, remotely, doable.

Who's the genius who assembled this Rockie team? This team has plugged a lot of holes very quickly, almost all from within. Imagine if Shawn Chacon was still there and pitching like he's pitching for New York. Overall, I'm impressed.

It will take a combination of Dodger losses and Padres wins adding up to 20 to eliminate the Dodgers.

Although I think it might be a little less than that since the Padres and Giants have to play each other.

Right now, the NL West champion has to have at least 72 wins.

Good news! Grabowski has been added to the roster on MLB.com! WooHoo!

Also, Weber and Donavon are getting the last game of the season off, not sure if it means anything, as I haven't been listening to the game

Yeah I noticed 382; now Tracy's got options, i.e. another excuse to push Choi and Perez further down the depth chart. Joy.

Just think with Jackson having back spasams and Perez most likely out for the season, Scott Erickson is on his way back from Vegas along with Grabowski. Again while there is plenty of room to blame Tracy on things-the call ups are Depodesta stuff. When does the Jacksonville season and playoffs end?

So is Jonathan Broxton going to save the season? He didn't the last time he was up.