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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Maybe We'll Be More Comfortable as Spoilers for a While
2005-09-05 14:55
by Jon Weisman
Comments (405)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-05 15:10:35
1.   HomeDePo
a sweep of this series puts us right into the playoff race. it kills me but it is true
2005-09-05 15:17:47
2.   dzzrtRatt
If San Diego doesn't go on a fairly serious losing skein, it doesn't matter what the Dodgers do. If the Pads sweep Colorado, they'll lead us by 7 with, what, about 20 games left?

I like Jon's headline about the Dodgers being spoilers--some of my best memories are of being spoilers. I just wish we were in a position to spoil some worthy teams, like Atlanta or St. Louis. Ruining San Diego's season is like pouring a cup of water in the ocean. They've had a deeply disappointing season as it is, accomplishing far less than most analysts and S.D. fans thought. They will make the playoffs sheerly due to the imcompetence of the division.

2005-09-05 15:23:33
3.   Bob Timmermann
When have the Dodgers ever been true spoilers?

In L.A., I can think of one instance: 1993.

In Brooklyn, there was 1934.

I'm thinking of spoiling in the sense that by the Dodgers winning the other team didn't win the division or pennant as a direct result of that game.

2005-09-05 15:24:17
4.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

September 5, 1888

The first place St. Louis Browns came to Washington Park in Brooklyn for the final time in the 1888 season and took advantage of seven Brooklyn errors to take away a 7-2 win. The loss dropped Brooklyn's record down to 63-44 and nine games behind the Browns and in third place.

St. Louis pitcher Silver King went the distance and Brooklyn wasn't able to score off of him until the eighth when shortstop Oyster Burns hit a 2-run home run to score third baseman George Pinckney ahead of him. King would go on to lead the American Association in wins in 1888 with 45.

Brooklyn would finish the season with an 88-52 record and in second place, 6 ½ games behind the Browns. It was the first season as manager for Bill McGunnigle, who would end up leading Brooklyn to one second place finish and two pennants in two different leagues during his three years in charge of the team. Brooklyn had a particularly good final two months of the season going 29-9 in September and October, but St. Louis held on with a 24-13 finish.

Pinckney was the standout for the Brooklyn offense. He led the AA in runs scored with 134. He batted .271 and had an OBP of .358. But there was some dead weight in the Brooklyn lineup. Catcher Doc Bushong batted .209. Second baseman Jack Burdock hit .122 in 70 games. Center fielder Paul Radford batted .218.

McGunnigle needed just five pitchers for the whole season. Bob Caruthers was the workhorse, starting 43 games. He finished 29-15 with a 2.39 ERA. Caruthers also played in the outfield when not pitching. Mickey Hughes went 25-13 with a 2.13 ERA. Adonis Terry was 13-8 with a 2.03 ERA. Brooklyn pitchers had a 2.33 ERA. However, first place St. Louis had a 2.09 ERA.

In the off-season, Brooklyn would patch up its holes on offense while leaving the formidable pitching staff intact. And the first great championship teams in Brooklyn would be crowned.

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-09-05 15:30:46
5.   dzzrtRatt
I wish I remembered the year, but it was whatever year that Ramon Martinez first came up. The Dodgers were lousy, but I attended a sold-out game during the final two weeks in which Martinez shut out the Giants. It was a thrilling game, a 2-0 score or something.

I guess I meant spoiler in the more cosmic sense, playing and beating the contenders. I don't think it has to be limited to a game in which we actually eliminate a contender. Just as long as we make life more difficult for any contender.

Watching the Rockies over the weekend, though -- that's a spoiler team. A bunch of young guys surging, a veteran having a great season, a pitcher who suddenly rediscovers how to win. The only way this Dodger team is going to spoil anything is via one of our starters having the kind of great game they are occasionally capable of. A Jim Tracy lineup must make the opposing manager and pitcher quietly chuckle.

2005-09-05 15:32:11
6.   HomeDePo
i would take just about any other manager at this point (cept felipe alou). i think robin ventura would be a great manager
2005-09-05 15:32:57
7.   Bob Timmermann
I was at the same game. Wetteland and Martinez threw back to back shutouts against the Giants. It was 1989. The Padres had a chance to pick up a game on the Giants and make their season-ending series in San Diego be for the pennant.

But the Padres lost to the Reds in extra innings. And the Giants clinched in the visiting clubhouse of Dodger Stadium.

2005-09-05 15:38:22
8.   Bob Timmermann
Turns out they weren't shutouts. But the Dodgers did sweep their final three home games behind Wetteland, Ramon Martinez, and Belcher.

The Dodgers won 5-2, 2-1, and 1-0. In the last game, the Dodgers only run scored when Mike Davis singled in Alfredo Griffin in the first.
Just how did that team win the World Series the year before?

The Padres lost to the Reds in San Diego the same night 2-1 in 13 innings. The Padres left the bases loaded in the 9th and 11th.

2005-09-05 15:46:23
9.   Jon Weisman
6 - "i think robin ventura would be a great manager."


2005-09-05 15:49:55
10.   HomeDePo
10 - he always had a fatherly quality and he seemed pretty smart. here is a question for you: jim tracy or robin ventura? i would also be fine with some brainwashed manager who would be depodestas little monkey boy and play choi
2005-09-05 15:51:29
11.   Adams
9 Wouldn't anybody be better, at this point?
2005-09-05 15:55:06
12.   Bob Timmermann
Somehow I just don't see how the Dodgers would be instant pennant contenders if the manager was a Paul DePodesta clone and Hee-Seop Choi played every day.

That answer is incredibly simplistic.

I think many have decided that it's much easier to distill all of the problems that the Dodgers that have had this year into one easy to handle excuse: It's all Jim Tracy's fault.

The problems are manifold. The reasons for them are manifold also.

2005-09-05 15:57:07
13.   Adams
The real question now, though, is why haven't we officially thrown in the towel and started playing the young guys? I don't understand why Velentin is playing, or Phillips. I want to see Aybar, Choi, Perez etc. Why not bring up a couple of young studs, such as D. Young, or Guzman and see what they can do? I've known it for a while now, but refused to admit it openly, but this seasons is done...over...finished. We need to find out what we have for next year and what we need to go out and get. Why are we calling up useless parts like Erickson, Grabowski, and Nakamura? I don't even want to see Ledee or Saenz playing. Let them heal up. I'd rather see Repko or Edwards even...give them one final chance to prove their worth for next year.
2005-09-05 16:01:38
14.   HomeDePo
13 - as much as i hate it you are right. we are done for the year, barring a miracle ;). i think that jim tracy does not care and he is playing the vets so that he can keep his job. he still thinks he could be managing some team next year, so he wants to pull off an impressive end.
2005-09-05 16:03:17
15.   Adams
14 What do you mean? Tracy's almost assuredly going to be managing the Dodgers next year. I haven't seen any signs that he's going to be fired or that Depo/McCourt has the guts to do it.
2005-09-05 16:05:18
16.   HomeDePo
15 - ugh
2005-09-05 16:05:50
17.   HomeDePo
15 - never said he was going to get fired, i just said he would be managing
2005-09-05 16:06:16
18.   Jon Weisman
10, 11 - This is the danger of the anti-Jim Tracy movement. I've had my own beefs with Tracy this year, but the alternative is not to suggest that anyone else would be better, or invent characteristics about players that have really no relevance.

Jim Tracy or Robin Ventura? Robin Ventura has never managed nor given us any indication of what kind of manager he would be. I have no idea if he's smart, much less smarter than Tracy, and don't know how anyone who hasn't met him would. As an ex-star, Ventura potentially falls into the trap that many ex-stars fall into, which is that if the game worked a certain way for them, it will work a certain way for everyone.

The fact is, probably very few people would be better than Tracy - which is not to suggest that Tracy is great but that the edge one looks for in a manager is actually rather slim.

I really don't mean to sound intense or anything on this point - it's a completely emotionless issue. But if you have legitimate criticisms of Tracy, I think it undermines them to suggest names (or non-names) that have no substance.

2005-09-05 16:12:08
19.   Jon Weisman
18, cont.

Take the use of Choi, for example. Tracy doesn't use Choi regularly, which is a beef of many who come here. But the baseball establishment doesn't contest this - they decided a while ago that Choi was to a great extent a liability. So there's no reason to assume that any old replacement for Tracy would use Choi better, or that any old replacement for Tracy would use the bunt or the stolen base or the bullpen better.

We should try to make educated guesses. And if we aren't able to make an educated guess, we should keep doing the research until we can.

2005-09-05 16:13:15
20.   Steve
That's why we have to burn down the establishment and start over again.
2005-09-05 16:15:27
21.   Bob Timmermann

And just how is this accomplished?

2005-09-05 16:15:43
22.   Jon Weisman
20 - That's fine. Let's hold the search for Tracy's replacement to the same exhausting standard that we are holding Tracy. (Though as Bob points out, let's not blame Tracy or the next Dodger manager for Hurricane Katrina.)
2005-09-05 16:16:51
23.   HomeDePo
ya i was just caught up in the heat of the moment. i am scared that another manager will come here and fail. then we will have nobody to blame. unless somebody blames depo.
2005-09-05 16:18:02
24.   HomeDePo
why cant lasorda manage?
2005-09-05 16:18:29
25.   Steve
There is no Tracy Replacement. McCourt has his man.
2005-09-05 16:19:13
26.   Bob Timmermann
I think there are many more Dodgers fans overall who blame DePodesta for the state of the team than Tracy. I would say the ratio of people who blame DePodesta to those who blame Tracy are likely 10:1.

Although overall, I think even more people blame Frank McCourt.

2005-09-05 16:20:13
27.   Bob Timmermann

Tommy Lasorda turns 78 on September 22.

2005-09-05 16:21:00
28.   Adams
19 I think the frustration that many of us have with Tracy is that his philosophy does not seem to be in line with that of upper management. They almost seem to be pulling in opposite directions at many times. This is a far bigger problem than any of his strategic blunders. As you have mentioned before, the advantage provided by a manager is very minimal. Therefore, I think it would be better to have someone, anyone, who understood and agreed with Depodesta's plan for the team. This doesn't require us to find specific names, just to know that Depo has found someone who buys into his philosophy. Then, at least, we'll know that there is a coordinated effort and we can judge the results. As it is now, I don't think anybody knows what to make of the past couple years.
2005-09-05 16:23:12
29.   Jon Weisman
26 - Clearly.

27 - Among other issues...

28 - Believe me, I understand the frustration. And I understand the desire to have someone mesh with DePo's philosophy. So endorse the philsophy. Forget about the names until a real one exists. Let's not just throw darts.

2005-09-05 16:23:41
30.   dzzrtRatt
I just don't like his lineups. He's okay otherwise.
2005-09-05 16:24:42
31.   Steve
By the way, it is not an "exhausting standard" to ask for the words "Choi" and "Perez" in the lineup on a daily basis. That is the remedial standard.
2005-09-05 16:24:46
32.   Suffering Bruin
19 I'm heading to the Labor Day barbecue hosted by some obscenely rich friends so the free food will be good but I wanted to say...

I agree. But Tracy is not DePodesta's guy. If he were, the sense is that someone would be playing Choi, regularly. The argument is not "play Choi no matter what." Many argue against that. I don't agree but, okay, baseball folk don't think he's a full-time player.

The argument is Choi vs. Phillips at first base. Or Choi vs. Saenz when a right-hander is on the hill who can throw a slider. Choi is the micro of the larger macro problem Tracy has--poor use of resources.

That said (all that said), injury is reason 1,2 and 3 for the Dodger pratfall this season.

Now, about that barbecue...

2005-09-05 16:26:15
33.   HomeDePo
one thing i hate about jim is how he used to play giovanni carrara all of the time, who lost a lot of games. same with alvarez
2005-09-05 16:30:01
34.   Bob Timmermann
I think Mike Davis would make a good manager.
2005-09-05 16:33:40
35.   Icaros
34 What would he use for ingredients? Is he into baking, deep fry, wok?
2005-09-05 16:36:31
36.   Adams
29 Almost by definition, though, we won't have heard of any suitable names for manager. The last thing we want at this point is someone who comes from the conventional baseball wisdom crowd. I want to know what Depo's plan is, and I want to be able judge it's success/failure without wondering if the manager is interfering with its implimentation. Basically, I want Tracy gone. Then, this will be Depo's team, and any responsibility for its sucess or failure will rest with him, and we can go from there.
2005-09-05 16:38:31
37.   Steve
DePo extended Tracy. His manager; his team.
2005-09-05 16:41:17
38.   HomeDePo
37 - he did that because he wanted to keep colby and wallach happy for a while (he was also the only manager depo could find, explaining why it took so long for him to sign tracy)
2005-09-05 16:45:35
39.   Icaros
Marty cooks a lot. He could probably whip up a pretty good manager.
2005-09-05 16:46:33
40.   Bob Timmermann

Suprisingly, I was referring to the Mike Davis who wrote "City of Quartz."

2005-09-05 16:48:17
41.   Icaros
38 Unless you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us don't, your statement is pure speculation and nothing more.

Steve is right. DePodesta must be held accountable for the actions of the manager he chose to resign.

2005-09-05 16:50:01
42.   Jon Weisman
I think it's more of an indication that you don't find oodles of Perfect Manager at Target. So DePo stuck w/ the devil he knew for now.
2005-09-05 16:51:39
43.   willhite
41 -

Are bringing back a manager and asking him to leave spelled the same way, or did you mean re-sign? Freudian slip?

2005-09-05 16:52:25
44.   Steve
41 -- Of course, the pro-Tracy, anti-DePo people won't give DePo "credit" either, just as they don't give him credit for signing Kent, giving Izturis millions, or trading for their hero, Mr. Clutchy-Clutch.
2005-09-05 16:52:44
45.   Icaros
40 I used to really like a Floridian metal guitarist named Mike Davis.
2005-09-05 16:54:25
46.   Icaros
43 Re-sign.
2005-09-05 16:55:47
47.   Nagman
The lineups are finally in. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news.
2005-09-05 16:56:18
48.   Steve
Who needs "Perfect Manager" when we don't even have "Kindergarten-level Manager"
2005-09-05 16:58:29
49.   HomeDePo
why mike edwards! and jose! WHY???
2005-09-05 16:59:22
50.   Bob Timmermann
You don't need a hyphen for "resign" regardless of its meaning.

My spell checker has told me so on many RDGCs.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-05 17:00:31
51.   HomeDePo
mike edwards has more homers than jose valentin. ouch
2005-09-05 17:01:32
52.   Icaros
50 That's what I had thought. I've been following your lead, but I guess some people didn't know what I meant.
2005-09-05 17:02:28
53.   HomeDePo
52 - everybody knew what you meant but some people were nitpicky
2005-09-05 17:02:38
54.   Adams
41 Whether or not you hold him accountable, you still have to wonder if he's actually implimenting Depo's plan. And, if not, what this team would be like if he did.

Of course, maybe Depo's plan involved Erickson being the ace of the staff, and Tracy has actually saved us.

2005-09-05 17:03:25
55.   Uncle Miltie
Another excellent lineup...

We really have an excellent bench

2005-09-05 17:03:28
56.   Bob Timmermann
But I have to put on in "off-season".

So when the season is over, we will be in the off-season.

But Yhency Brazoban is having an "off season". The spellchecker is all wise!

2005-09-05 17:04:31
57.   Bob Timmermann
There should be a "-" in between put and on in 56
2005-09-05 17:05:35
58.   Icaros
54 I've been wondering what this team would be like without Tracy all season, but if the GM isn't moved to make a change, I can only assume that he isn't troubled by what he has seen.
2005-09-05 17:07:01
59.   scooplew
Regarding Valentin, include me among those who wonder why he is starting. He is 10-for-64 with 2 RBI since August 1, and he certainly won't be with the team next season.
2005-09-05 17:07:08
60.   Bob Timmermann
I should stop trying to post things while I'm taking a nap....
2005-09-05 17:07:46
61.   willhite
56, 57

I admit to be nitpicky but at least I've provided us a few seconds where we don't have to think about tonight's starting lineup.

2005-09-05 17:08:36
62.   Purple Hippopotamus
I thought "off season" is hyphenated only when it's modifying a noun, e.g., "The Dodgers 2004 off-season moves sure looked good on paper, but..."
2005-09-05 17:10:13
63.   Vishal
i'm with steve on this one. we're not really holding tracy to an exhausting standard. granted, every time he makes a mistake, we're on it. however, i know i could live with occasional, even regular screwups. the problem with tracy is much more systemic and broadly based. he just is not the right fit for this team, and he needs to go.
2005-09-05 17:10:56
64.   Vishal
56 but what does your spellchecker say about "the offseason"?
2005-09-05 17:11:23
65.   Uncle Miltie
Yamid Haad better not get on base against the Dodgers. Knowing the Derek Lowe, Haad will not only get a hit, he'll collect his first major league RBI against Lowe in the form of a homerun.
2005-09-05 17:11:47
66.   HomeDePo
63 - i could imagine jim tracy succeeding somewhere more to his tastes, like a Jim Bowden team
2005-09-05 17:12:32
67.   Vishal
it's too bad choi can't play left field.

actually, maybe he could? he's not THAT slow, right?

2005-09-05 17:12:38
68.   HomeDePo
can we make a manager trade?
2005-09-05 17:12:45
69.   Bob Timmermann
The Washington Post says "offseason". The NY Times says "off-season". MS Word says "off-season".

I could ask two of my brothers who have worked copy desk and I could start an argument between the two over the issue.

2005-09-05 17:13:38
70.   Icaros
Barry Bonds looks like Fat Albert.
2005-09-05 17:13:50
71.   HomeDePo
how did bonds fare in BP today??
2005-09-05 17:14:11
72.   Bob Timmermann
Yamid Haad is an inspiration to all Arab-Colombian baseball players.
2005-09-05 17:15:41
73.   Icaros
69 The Timmermann boys were notorious word bullies in the neighborhood they grew up.
2005-09-05 17:15:56
74.   HomeDePo
72 - watchout because they are coming to take over the league. think italians of early 1900s, blacks of 60s-80s, and latinos from whenever they played in the league.
2005-09-05 17:16:33
75.   Bob Timmermann
J.T. Snow was moving with Jason Phillips like speed to first there.
2005-09-05 17:16:34
76.   Uncle Miltie
Snow makes Robles look fast
2005-09-05 17:18:07
77.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants backup catcher used to be named Yorvit. Now it's Yamid.

The third string catcher is named Justin, but he makes up for it by having the last name of Knoedler.

2005-09-05 17:19:09
78.   confucius
Vin loves calling JT, J2 Snow. Bonds to the Angels?? Did anyone see that on ESPN news??
2005-09-05 17:19:36
79.   Icaros
how did bonds fare in BP today??

He was 3 for 4 with one walk.

2005-09-05 17:19:59
80.   Bob Timmermann
Bonds to the Angels has been rumored all year. But I think it's more wishful thinking on Bonds' part. The Angels don't seem too interested in him.

Character issues, you know.

2005-09-05 17:21:01
81.   Icaros
This is where Edwards shows off the situational hitting.
2005-09-05 17:21:11
82.   Uncle Miltie
Will Robles ever steal a base? Jason Phillips has 11 SBs in his career (all in the minors)
2005-09-05 17:22:02
83.   Steve
Rosenthal says "all" it will take is Finley, Garrett Anderson, and Darin Erstad.

Maybe we can get in on a three way deal by offering Elmer Dessens and Jose Valentin.

2005-09-05 17:22:17
84.   confucius
I wish he went to the Angels. That's 12 less times the Dodgers have to face him
2005-09-05 17:23:08
85.   Steve
Dodger fans are already tired of a leadoff hitter who gets on base.
2005-09-05 17:23:25
86.   Uncle Miltie
*&^& Robles had that one stolen!
2005-09-05 17:23:57
87.   Bob Timmermann
Oscar Robles meet Jose Offerman.

The last player to go 0 for 8 in SB in one season.

Pete Runnels record-setting 0 for 10 is next.

Go Oscar go!

2005-09-05 17:24:09
88.   Linkmeister
We could replace Tracy with the guy in charge of FEMA.
2005-09-05 17:24:30
89.   Icaros
Has that play worked even once for Tracy this year?
2005-09-05 17:24:41
90.   confucius
A great job by Edwards to swing at a ball in the dirt and a better job by Robles to slide three feet wide of the bag.
2005-09-05 17:24:42
91.   Uncle Miltie
What a worthless inning..thanks Jimbo.

I guess Kent got "his pitch"

2005-09-05 17:24:48
92.   Steve
Nothing much changes in three weeks, does it?
2005-09-05 17:24:57
93.   Bob Timmermann
Rosenthal's Bonds to the Angels trade was:

The Angels, for example, could offer up a number of possibilities -- center fielder Steve Finley, righthander Kelvim Escobar, shortstop Orlando Cabrera, first baseman Darin Erstad.

2005-09-05 17:25:30
94.   Uncle Miltie
88- or PETA
2005-09-05 17:25:53
95.   Steve
And a great job by Jim Tracy calling for Edwards to swing at said ball in the dirt. Well done all around.

Where does one find the cans of "Rational Manager?"

2005-09-05 17:26:44
96.   Icaros
93 I'd settle for their team planes crashing into one another.
2005-09-05 17:27:45
97.   Vishal
the "strike 'em out, throw 'em out" double play is my least favorite play in baseball, i think.
2005-09-05 17:28:09
98.   Uncle Miltie
"Grab my pine, meat" Who are these guys?
2005-09-05 17:28:48
99.   Bob Timmermann
The Mariners had a busted squeeze play today that ended up as a unassisted DP for the third baseman.

That would annoy me more.

2005-09-05 17:29:10
100.   Steve
88 -- Because he's the only one that doesn't know Jason Phillips is dead yet?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-05 17:29:24
101.   oldbear
DePo has to Tracyproof the roster next year.

That means no Valentin, Repko, Edwards, Grabowski, Izturis, Phillips.

Mike Edwards came from the A's organization. You'd think he would have learned from plate discipline over there. But apparently not. OBP is .288 with zero power. That guy stinks.

2005-09-05 17:29:25
102.   Icaros
98 Mike Krukow and Duane Kuiper.
2005-09-05 17:31:05
103.   bokonon42
There goes Kent padding his fielding stats. . .
2005-09-05 17:31:06
104.   confucius
93. Wow the Angels weren't interested. All those players are useless to the Giants besides maybe Escobar. He's always hurt though.
2005-09-05 17:31:55
105.   Vishal
99for some reason that doesn't annoy me so much.
2005-09-05 17:33:00
106.   Steve
Not necessarily useless to the Giants. Most of them fit fairly comfortably into their House of Wax lineup.
2005-09-05 17:33:24
107.   Icaros
That play reminded me of a great second baseman we once had in these parts.

I don't even need to say his name, but his initials are synonomous with cool indoor temperature.

2005-09-05 17:33:29
108.   Steve
105 -- That's because it happened against the A's. :)
2005-09-05 17:33:33
109.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels can't officially say they aren't interested because Bonds is under contract to the Giants and he hasn't been offered up in a trade yet.

But Bonds can veto any trade.

And the Angels notebook in the Times speculated that Bonds wouldn't fit in well with Scioscia.

But that was speculation. I would think a lot of Angels fans could put up with the loss of Darin Erstad if Barry Bonds were on the team.

2005-09-05 17:34:28
110.   Uncle Miltie
101- in 1999, Edwards posted these numbers:
.289/.413/.467 93 BB 117 K 16 HR 89 RBI (456 AB)

Last year in AAA
.287/.384/.432 76 BB 100 K 13 HR 81 RBI (551 AB). About an .800 OPS in AAA at 27 years old isn't very good for a corner player.

2005-09-05 17:35:19
111.   Bob Timmermann

Al Campanis?
Andy Carey?

2005-09-05 17:35:46
112.   Icaros
109 If the LAAoA traded Erstad, Scioscia would be all alone at night on road trips.
2005-09-05 17:36:16
113.   Bob Timmermann
On Cruz's single, you would have been better off listening to the radio. That camera angle was worthless because of the glare.
2005-09-05 17:36:16
114.   confucius
Now he's JT Smow.
2005-09-05 17:36:17
115.   confucius
Now he's JT Smow.
2005-09-05 17:36:55
116.   Uncle Miltie
I love Durham's defense
2005-09-05 17:37:01
117.   Steve
I was flipping through Bill James' Historical Abstract (new edition) over the weekend and at least twice, James was waxing rhapsodic about Jose Offerman. I found this a bit, errr, strange.
2005-09-05 17:38:18
118.   Icaros
Let's see if Werth is still working on his Adrian Beltre impression.
2005-09-05 17:39:37
119.   Icaros
118 Not that time.
2005-09-05 17:39:43
120.   Uncle Miltie
Werth walks. Double steal time. Then they might intentionally walk Valentin and we'll get Lowe up with bases loaded.
2005-09-05 17:41:34
121.   Uncle Miltie
Nice foul ball by Valentin, the hardest ball he's hit in a month.
2005-09-05 17:41:38
122.   Bob Timmermann
Despite all the sunlight, this is officially considered a night game.
2005-09-05 17:41:41
123.   confucius
Erstad is a terrible corner infielder. He can't hit ten HR's, he can't walk, he can't drive in runs, etc. The Giants wouldn't trade bonds for anything less then Anderson or Guerrero with a prospect. Both of whom I imagine are untouchable.
2005-09-05 17:42:11
124.   Icaros
I thought the Dodgers said they weren't going to hold anymore late afternoon games after Ishii almost got killed.
2005-09-05 17:42:57
125.   Bob Timmermann

You're discounting the fact that if Bonds got moved, the Giants would have a LOT of payroll space.

2005-09-05 17:43:20
126.   confucius
Derek Lowe is just 21 outs away from a no-hitter.
2005-09-05 17:43:28
127.   Icaros
123 The Angels would be crazy not to trade the washed-up Anderson and his enormous contract.
2005-09-05 17:43:39
128.   Johnson
I don't know if I'd consider Garret Anderson untouchable.
2005-09-05 17:43:49
129.   Bob Timmermann

People don't think it's dangerous to build homes on a flood plain either.

Doesn't mean they don't do it.

2005-09-05 17:43:52
130.   Uncle Miltie
123- and Anderson is good? Sub .800 OPS, average defense, bad contract, arthritis in his back...oh yea, he's an "RBI man"
2005-09-05 17:45:29
131.   confucius
True. They still would want something for him though. Home Run Hitters aren't exactly jumping to play in that Park.
2005-09-05 17:45:50
132.   HomeDePo
126 - way to jinx it, buddy.
2005-09-05 17:46:54
133.   Uncle Miltie
Kent is no Durham defensively
2005-09-05 17:47:26
134.   Johnson
Wow. Another fantastic play by Kent!
2005-09-05 17:47:41
135.   confucius
Anderson sucks this year, but his career numbers are good. Look at how many RBI per year he averages.
2005-09-05 17:48:31
136.   Uncle Miltie
Haad Ha! You swung at a ball.
2005-09-05 17:51:17
137.   confucius
maybe Garret Anderson isn't untouchable but you know how loyal Sciocia is. How long did he send out Troy Percival when he was getting hammered. That's all i meant. I know Garret Anderson is washed up.
2005-09-05 17:51:23
138.   Uncle Miltie
135- (career)
Jeromy Burnitz .836 OPS
Garret Anderson ..801 OPS

Garret Anderson has had an average career. He had a couple of nice years. He's extremely overrated.

2005-09-05 17:52:24
139.   Bob Timmermann
So Vin says Bonds might not play until the last week of the season.

Joe Morgan thinks Bonds could play tomorrrow

2005-09-05 17:53:25
140.   Uncle Miltie
Very good at bat by Lowe. The first pitch was a ball, so he should have walked.
2005-09-05 17:54:35
141.   Johnson
Joe Morgan thinks Billy Beane wrote Moneyball. Your point?
2005-09-05 17:54:43
142.   Uncle Miltie
Lowe has more stolen bases than Robles (1)
2005-09-05 17:56:26
143.   Uncle Miltie
What was the point of barehanding that ball? Like Kent said, Vizquel makes plays more difficult than they need to be.
2005-09-05 17:56:29
144.   Johnson
Someone needs to remind Lowe where second base is. I think he was running to center field.
2005-09-05 17:56:30
145.   Bob Timmermann
I think line drives would be a bigger problem for Vizquel if he played barehanded rather than throws from the catcher.
2005-09-05 17:56:38
146.   Icaros
Joe Morgan's book report:

Moneyball, written by Billy Beane, is the story of a computer who ruins the game of baseball.

2005-09-05 17:57:26
147.   Bob Timmermann

You want your starting pitcher trying to take out someone at second base on a DP? I don't think any pitcher does that. They are far more likely to hurt themselves than break up the DP.

2005-09-05 17:58:05
148.   confucius
Robles wants to be sure Kent has no runners to drive in for the rest of the year.
2005-09-05 17:58:47
149.   Johnson
The point was to give the Giants announcers a reason to drool over Vizquel for the rest fo the game. They'll probably show it five more times and it will be the Carl's Jr. "In Your Face" play of the game. I'm calling it now. Even though he threw it like a girl.
2005-09-05 18:00:04
150.   Jim Hitchcock
Could be wrong, but did the Aflac duck just turn into a red herring?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-05 18:00:36
151.   Icaros
149 Robles's caught stealing was already the Carl's Jr. "In Your Face" play of the game.
2005-09-05 18:00:39
152.   confucius
141. Yeah, Joe Morgan does think that, but i'll be damned if i'm going to sit here and let you be little someone who doesn't know how to read or write.
2005-09-05 18:00:40
153.   Johnson
I guess not, but it sure looks funny for Lowe to be 20 feet out of the basepath. That's all.
2005-09-05 18:00:59
154.   Bob Timmermann
What I never understand about the Clippers letting Randy Winn participate in their halfcourt shot contest was that Winn was a starter on the Santa Clara basketball team.

Usually they don't let you participate in those contests if you've played college ball.

2005-09-05 18:01:34
155.   Johnson
Sorry. Got home late and missed the first. So much for my predictions.
2005-09-05 18:01:34
156.   Johnson
Sorry. Got home late and missed the first. So much for my predictions.
2005-09-05 18:02:53
157.   Icaros
154 The Clippers actually use that promotion to scout new players.
2005-09-05 18:04:08
158.   Uncle Miltie
Will Lowe blame the defense for that hit?
2005-09-05 18:04:20
159.   confucius
There goes the no-no.
2005-09-05 18:06:15
160.   confucius
I never realized how worthless the Alou family was. Thanks for clearing that up Vin.
2005-09-05 18:08:14
161.   Johnson
So now that the no-no is gone, we can start mentioning things like how Lowe has only given up two hits in his last 13 innings, right? Not so bad.
2005-09-05 18:08:55
162.   confucius
Who will have a higher batting average at the end of the year?
Lowe .164
Valentin .182
2005-09-05 18:09:10
163.   Uncle Miltie
160- what did he say? I'm getting the Giants feed.
2005-09-05 18:10:21
164.   Johnson
Following up on my 161 - Lowe has collected as many base hits as he has allowed in his last 13 innings.
2005-09-05 18:10:34
165.   confucius
That they have a combined total of 160 HR's in Giants uniforms.
2005-09-05 18:11:49
166.   Uncle Miltie
165- I thought it had something to do with the hand care products they are releasing in the offseason
2005-09-05 18:13:40
167.   Bob Timmermann
Oh, no, they may have broken our Olmedo!
2005-09-05 18:14:23
168.   confucius
166. You wish.
2005-09-05 18:15:16
169.   Bob Timmermann
The single game record for DPs is 7, so the Giants are off to a good start.
2005-09-05 18:15:37
170.   King of the Hobos
From the notes:

Jim Tracy was asked if he's coming back to manage the Dodgers in 2006.

"As far as I know," said Tracy, who has one year remaining on his contract.

When asked if he wanted to, he said, "Absolutely."

Some of the other questions asked of Tracy by reporters on Monday were not as easy to answer, especially when the topic of character was raised. Owner Frank McCourt last week, in the wake of the Milton Bradley-Jeff Kent firestorm, was quoted as saying that he now understands better the importance of character in forming a team's roster.

"There's a lot of things that go into the equation in formulating a team, the way the pieces fit and complement each other," said Tracy. "Character has always been an important issue with me. It goes hand in hand with chemistry."

2005-09-05 18:18:53
171.   HomeDePo
170 - i always thought jt looked a little like yogi
2005-09-05 18:20:39
172.   King of the Hobos
Valentin's amazing defense is clearly why he's playing...
2005-09-05 18:21:20
173.   Bob Timmermann
This is Yamid's big chance for an RBI. He just needs an Olney.
2005-09-05 18:22:00
174.   King of the Hobos
Thanks to a bad throw, Haad has his RBI
2005-09-05 18:22:13
175.   HomeDePo
172 - i bet jim tracy feels pretty smug with that keen move in playing him
2005-09-05 18:23:35
176.   HomeDePo
well, valentin should feel awesome right now. a natural born gold glover out there
2005-09-05 18:30:02
177.   Bob Timmermann
2-6 CS DP

Choose one.

2005-09-05 18:30:45
178.   bill cox
I've had my two cents in the Tracy-Depo blame game(tend more to blame Tracy-too many unexplainable moves).I would say though a sober analysis at this point can only reach one conclusion-this is a bad team.You can go down the roster and its hard to find alot of guys who ought to be on a major league roster,much less starting.
When is the last time a Dodger team was near the bottom in both hitting and pitching(using the oldschool measure of Batting Average and ERA)? Maybe bad hitting,but usually upper tier pitching.Throw in bad luck,injuries,but this team is the fruit of years of bad drafts,stupid contracts,poor ownership.This is an 80,000,000 dollar version of the Royals.
That's why some of us are bigger Suns fans than Dodger fans this year.At least there's talent there.
Tell me it ain't so Joe!They didn't really callup Erickson.I know he had a sparkling 7.20 ERA at Vegas and all,but what's the point.And we can pencil in Grabs,the postmodern Manny Mota as primary pinchhitter.
Thank God its football season.Hope springs eternal for my beleagered Buffalo Bills.
2005-09-05 18:31:20
179.   King of the Hobos
On the last day of the season, Delwyn Young snapped his hit streak (I believe it was at 17 games). He had 3 Ks as he went 0-5

Cody Ross, proving he should get called up, hit for the cycle

Every member in the Jax line up other than Nixon had a hit. Greg Miller finished poorly, giving up 3 runs in .2 IP, all on a homer

Pedroza had a hideous game to finish his season, 0-5 with 5 Ks

And thus the minor leagues regular season has ended (other than Ogden). Vero Beach begins their playoffs tomorrow, Jax on the 8th, and Ogden doesn't finish until the 8th, they'll have playoffs sometime after that

2005-09-05 18:31:20
180.   Bob Timmermann
Dang, thought we could get a 9-3 DP there.
The 7 DPs in a 9-inning game record will not be broken tonight. It could be tied.
2005-09-05 18:33:01
181.   Bob Timmermann
Grabowski is listed among the Dodger reserves on Gameday, but Erickson is not.
2005-09-05 18:34:47
182.   King of the Hobos
178 Erickson's not up, someone said that jokingly. At least I haven't heard it (did I miss something?). His 7.20 ERA was the worst on the current Vegas roster (quite the achievement). Buddy Carlyle finished with the best, a sparkling 4.88 ERA. Alfredo Gonzalez pitched some scoreless innings to bring his down to 4.91, but alas, that season has mercifully ended
2005-09-05 18:35:23
183.   Icaros
178 I wish I had the option of rooting for a football team that shares my name.
2005-09-05 18:36:16
184.   Bob Timmermann

If you rearrange your last name and drop some extra letters, you would have "Ram".

2005-09-05 18:39:00
185.   King of the Hobos
If I replace one letter in my last name, I have the name of a fottball field, does that count? Wish I liked the Steelers more...
2005-09-05 18:39:44
186.   Icaros
184 True, but I'd have to drop five letters, not as cool as Bill's situation.

If I could petition the Jaguars to change their name to the Jacksonville Jasons, I'd consider leaving the Rams.

2005-09-05 18:40:58
187.   sanchez101
is brian myrow on the bench tonite? I wish they would give him a chance to play, he's not young by any standard, but he seems like a lefthanded olmedo saenz. He had a real nice season in AAA, even accounting for the Las Vegas ballpark.
2005-09-05 18:41:02
188.   Icaros
Lowe got pinched bad.
2005-09-05 18:41:37
189.   Uncle Miltie
Lowe is getting screwed by the umpire.

I was eating at the dining hall and Giants fans were jumping up and down when Durham scored.

2005-09-05 18:42:05
190.   Linkmeister
186 Pick one with a humongous name, like Forty-Niners.

There are any number of bodies of water that share my last name, and no doubt a bunch of old-style summer camps, but no sports teams I can think of.

2005-09-05 18:42:22
191.   Bob Timmermann
The only callup today seems to be Grabowski.
2005-09-05 18:42:55
192.   confucius
185. I can't figure it out.
2005-09-05 18:43:01
193.   Icaros
I'd kill myself before rooting for the 49ers.
2005-09-05 18:43:50
194.   Bob Timmermann
King of the Hobos is the online handle for John Kerry.
2005-09-05 18:44:22
195.   Linkmeister
Steelers play at Heinz Park (or Field?), right?
2005-09-05 18:45:08
196.   Linkmeister
194 If it were, I'd have a lot to say to that man.
2005-09-05 18:45:57
197.   Bob Timmermann
It's Heinz Field. Which is across the parking lot from PNC Park.

The former has a big ketchup bottle in one of the end zones and is ugly.

The latter would be the greatest place to watch a baseball game in the majors if it weren't for the fact that you have to watch the Pirates play there.

2005-09-05 18:46:42
198.   Bob Timmermann
Houston downs Philadelphia 4-2 to take over the wild card spot in the NL.
2005-09-05 18:48:01
199.   Uncle Miltie
Oscar will get another opportunity to steal his base.
2005-09-05 18:48:38
200.   Uncle Miltie
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-05 18:49:29
201.   Uncle Miltie
It wouldn't be bad idea for Kent to swing at the first pitch.

Their pitcher is throwing a lot of first pitch meatballs.

2005-09-05 18:51:07
202.   Uncle Miltie
Alou slowed down and decided to dive. Nice Jeter.
2005-09-05 18:53:01
203.   Bob Timmermann
Still on track for 7 DPs!
2005-09-05 18:53:16
204.   King of the Hobos
Another DP for the Dodgers
2005-09-05 18:53:21
205.   natepurcell
haha, someone threw an inflated balco bottle on the field.

how did alou catch that???

2005-09-05 18:53:53
206.   Uncle Miltie
Can we bench Olmedo. The Giants play by play guy might be the worst in the majors. He needs to tone it down a couple notches.
2005-09-05 18:55:44
207.   Bob Timmermann
May 4, 1969

San Francisco at Houston

2005-09-05 18:56:25
208.   capdodger
202 Naw.... Alou is just slow. Too bad Balco Bonds wasn't out there. Kent would still be running.
2005-09-05 19:01:29
209.   Uncle Miltie
Nice game pitched by Lowe. No home runs allowed. Unfortunately, Tracy makes out the lineups.
2005-09-05 19:01:49
210.   natepurcell
can that little adjustment to the other side of the rubber help THAT much?

lowe is pitching like orel.

2005-09-05 19:03:37
211.   Icaros
Pretty soon Lowe is going to be the best free agent pitcher signing of the offseason.
2005-09-05 19:04:32
212.   Uncle Miltie
Giants announcer after Cruz gets a hit "That just sets up the double play"
2005-09-05 19:05:03
213.   Odysseus
lowe has been great, unfortunately the offense needs to score at least one run if he has any hope of not taking the L
2005-09-05 19:05:43
214.   Uncle Miltie
If Edwards was at the plate right now, I'd be in favor of bunting.
2005-09-05 19:06:27
215.   King of the Hobos
Cruz seems to have lost all his power after the back problems. Has some doubles down the line and gappers, but nothing with loft. He also walks a lot, sure would be a better lead off than Izturis. Didn't the DBacks acquire him to be a lead off man?
2005-09-05 19:07:57
216.   Adams
Boy, opposing pitchers sure look good when facing the dodgers...
2005-09-05 19:08:00
217.   Bob Timmermann
The Dbacks have the pesky Craig Counsell to lead off and he's had that job all year I believe.
2005-09-05 19:08:51
218.   Bob Timmermann
It's up to Werth. 7 DPs in a game would be historic. 4-5 would just be annoying.
2005-09-05 19:09:00
219.   King of the Hobos
there goes my hope that Navarro singles, and Werth GIDPs a run. Now it will be a boring DP
2005-09-05 19:10:12
220.   King of the Hobos
2-1 count. Looks like a 2-6 DP
2005-09-05 19:10:43
221.   King of the Hobos
220 Nevermind that. Forgot you needed 3 strikes for a strike out...
2005-09-05 19:11:53
222.   Adams
It's unfortunate that you can't get into more than one double play per inning...otherwise they surely would have the record by now...
2005-09-05 19:12:25
223.   Uncle Miltie
Werth has looked very good tonight. He hasn't chased that outside slider (the Beltre Pitch)
2005-09-05 19:12:39
224.   King of the Hobos
Werth is passing the torch to Valentin I see. The LOOGY for Valentin is vital, I must agree with Alou
2005-09-05 19:12:52
225.   Icaros
217 Where does pesky rank in comparison with scrappy and savvy?
2005-09-05 19:13:43
226.   Adams
bring in perez to pinch hit and move edwards to lf...
2005-09-05 19:13:51
227.   Vishal
oh lord. morgan and miller are amazing.

what's strange is that i watched them call the oakland game yesterday and they were actually pretty decent. joe morgan sounded pretty reasonable and sensible. i can't recall anything particularly scandalous he said yesterday. guess he's making up for it today.

2005-09-05 19:14:54
228.   Uncle Miltie
Yay! Valentin isn't hitting.
2005-09-05 19:15:10
229.   King of the Hobos
222 What about if you have a man on, no outs. Strike out/Wild pitch, the runner is thrown out advancing but the batter reaches. Then a normal GIDP. Does that count? The word "out" appears 4 times in the ply-by-play...
2005-09-05 19:15:17
230.   Adams
2005-09-05 19:16:11
231.   Adams
229 I think that's a strikeout/fielder's choice...
2005-09-05 19:16:42
232.   King of the Hobos
226 And compromise defense? Repko to center, Werth to left, Edwards stays at 3rd
2005-09-05 19:16:52
233.   Bob Timmermann
You can have four outs in an inning because of appeal plays, but that only happens to negate a run scoring. And they only record three outs in the inning.
2005-09-05 19:17:01
234.   Adams
If Perez walks will Tracy pinch hit for Lowe, or allow him to GIDP?
2005-09-05 19:17:54
235.   Uncle Miltie
Please bring in a right hander Alou!
2005-09-05 19:18:09
236.   Bob Timmermann
And looks who's coming up...

Talk about a roll of the dice ....

2005-09-05 19:18:29
237.   Icaros
Now why can't Phillips be pulled for Choi?
2005-09-05 19:18:31
238.   Uncle Miltie
Jimbo please couner with Choi! You always use Choi as a decoy, Phillips better not hit!
2005-09-05 19:18:55
239.   Uncle Miltie
2005-09-05 19:19:02
240.   Adams
Mr. Clutch!

He's so slow that he could GIDP to the center fielder...

2005-09-05 19:20:13
241.   Bob Timmermann
This is like September 18, 1997 except there's little at stake and the players are worse.
2005-09-05 19:20:33
242.   King of the Hobos
240 Yes, but they need Saenz at 1st to get the 8-6-3 DP
2005-09-05 19:20:40
243.   Odysseus
You can however, theoretically, record an infinite number of strikeouts in an inning, because the pitcher is still credited with a K, even if there is a passed ball.
2005-09-05 19:20:57
244.   Uncle Miltie
YES! Jimbo makes a good move!
2005-09-05 19:21:16
245.   Icaros
Okay, I'll take Ledee.
2005-09-05 19:21:29
246.   Bob Timmermann
Thank God for Mike Rose! A third catcher made this move possible.
2005-09-05 19:23:00
247.   Odysseus
I would note, of course, that recording 4 Ks in an inning would be the much more likely scenario, than the theoretically possible unlimited number of strikeouts
2005-09-05 19:24:36
248.   Bob Timmermann
I will take that DP.
2005-09-05 19:24:50
249.   Icaros
Stupid, as usual.
2005-09-05 19:25:00
250.   Ken Arneson
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-05 19:25:03
251.   Vishal
figures, another double play. at least we got the run.
2005-09-05 19:25:09
252.   Uncle Miltie
Way to kill the rally Werth! Good job by Cruz to tag. Winn has one of the weakest arms in baseball.
2005-09-05 19:25:11
253.   Odysseus
Does that count as TWO productive outs, or just one?
2005-09-05 19:25:38
254.   King of the Hobos
There for a second, I was worried there would be no DP. Good job Werth
2005-09-05 19:26:35
255.   Bob Timmermann
I think Werth was running by design. You want the throw cut off.
2005-09-05 19:27:30
256.   King of the Hobos
232 I was right. I expect you all to admire me for my predictions...
2005-09-05 19:27:36
257.   Uncle Miltie
Tracy does not want to win this game...
2005-09-05 19:28:20
258.   King of the Hobos
Gasocan was the clearly the smart choice here
2005-09-05 19:28:21
259.   Icaros
256 Cruz would have been safe by a mile anyway. Winn has no arm.
2005-09-05 19:28:26
260.   Uncle Miltie
255- you don't need to give up that extra out for a run when Randy Winn is the guy throwing the ball.
2005-09-05 19:29:04
261.   Icaros
I meant 255.
2005-09-05 19:29:57
262.   Bob Timmermann
Then your beef is with Glenn Hoffman because he was the one telling Werth to tag up.
2005-09-05 19:30:35
263.   Ken Arneson
My five-year-old daughter just asked, "How come they let him score and got the out at third, instead of throwing it home and getting the out there, where he wouldn't score?"

Um...good question...

2005-09-05 19:31:23
264.   Ken Arneson
Dang, I need to insert a #250...
2005-09-05 19:31:25
265.   Icaros
I'm not doubting that your theory was the Dodgers' strategy, Bob. I just found it unnecessary in that situation.
2005-09-05 19:31:36
266.   King of the Hobos
See Brazoban, change ups are good
2005-09-05 19:32:08
267.   Uncle Miltie
1st pitch to Snow- A changeup!
2005-09-05 19:32:29
268.   Bob Timmermann
It doesn't take as long to throw it from center to the cutoff man to third as it is for it to go from center to home. Especially with Randy Winn being one of the variables.
2005-09-05 19:33:19
269.   Icaros
Are they still selling the Hoffmans down in the Effigy District, Bob?
2005-09-05 19:33:48
270.   Odysseus
265 I think that's right, but in Hoffman's defense, he probably didn't know that the play wouldn't be close. Had he taken a moment to consider Winn's poor arm, he may have, but it's a split second decision. A decision that should be informed by Winn's poor arm, but probably was not.
2005-09-05 19:34:22
271.   Nagman
Weird, I'm watching the ESPN broadcast and they showed a replay to show how close it was with the tag and the run scoring from a high camera behind home plate. I swear it looked like Werth didn't even tag, he looked like he was off the bag and just took off.

Must be just me though, that would've been obvious.

If they appealed at second I assume that would've negated the run.

2005-09-05 19:34:27
272.   Bob Timmermann
The Effigy District is closed on holidays so I don't know.
2005-09-05 19:34:46
273.   Uncle Miltie
Don't throw a fastball
2005-09-05 19:35:13
274.   Bob Timmermann
Nope, the run would have still counted.
2005-09-05 19:35:47
275.   Vishal
and yet, antonio perez isn't allowed to play third base.
2005-09-05 19:35:48
276.   Uncle Miltie
Edwards better not put a Dodger uniform on again!
2005-09-05 19:35:59
277.   Icaros
Better defense at third...
2005-09-05 19:36:03
278.   natepurcell
so... is this mike on?
2005-09-05 19:36:20
279.   King of the Hobos
Perez would have made that throw. Maybe Edwards won't be the 3B from now on

And my desire to get rid of Brazoban will disappear quickly if he can use the change

2005-09-05 19:36:30
280.   Odysseus
whatever you do don't play Perez at 3B, in account of the defense and all


2005-09-05 19:37:18
281.   capdodger
An error by an infielder playing outfield = 1 run.
An error by an outfielder playing infield = 1 run.


2005-09-05 19:37:47
282.   Bob Timmermann
If someone can tell me what the heck Moises Alou was doing on that play, I'd appreciate it.
The Giants had a chance to get a lot more.
2005-09-05 19:38:28
283.   King of the Hobos
281 Edwards doesn't really have a position, he's mediocre at all of them. There were plenty of times when someone doubled on a lazy fly when he was in left
2005-09-05 19:39:40
284.   Uncle Miltie
Pinch hit for Edwards with Choi!
2005-09-05 19:40:10
285.   King of the Hobos
I don't like Edwards' chances of getting on base. There might be problems with a DP
2005-09-05 19:40:56
286.   Bob Timmermann
Edwards needs to get on base here...
2005-09-05 19:41:05
287.   Icaros
283 Yeah, but he's a great situational bat handler with a bright future in baseball.
2005-09-05 19:41:53
288.   King of the Hobos
Looks like we'll need extra innings
2005-09-05 19:42:41
289.   Odysseus
283 hey but at least he looked really good in that at bat


2005-09-05 19:42:52
290.   Icaros
288 How will the Dodgers tie it up?
2005-09-05 19:42:55
291.   Uncle Miltie
Let's trade Edwards to the Giants for Cody Ransom (I know he's on the Cubs now)
2005-09-05 19:42:59
292.   Bob Timmermann
It's not the same. It's not as special. It could have been history.

Now it will just be a frustrating night.

2005-09-05 19:44:48
293.   Vishal
292 who's frustrated? not me.
2005-09-05 19:46:24
294.   Icaros
Schmoll against lefties, huh? Not what I'd recommend.
2005-09-05 19:46:45
295.   King of the Hobos
This being a Giants game, it's automatically a must win, with denial or acceptance. A loss that involves 2 players players playing for their defense (overrated as it may be, neither of them are in for their offense are they?!), making run scoring errors will make this far tougher than any of the Rockies losses
2005-09-05 19:46:47
296.   capdodger
Hmm... What happened to 250?
2005-09-05 19:48:22
297.   Ken Arneson
2005-09-05 19:48:41
298.   Bob Timmermann
Shhhh..... 250 is a secret.

It would be fun to see Bonds play this week.

I do feel sorry for Brazoban because he actually pitched pretty well. And he still is going to get a loss.

2005-09-05 19:48:45
299.   King of the Hobos
Tracy has a LOOGY and he won't even use him. Makes no sense. Looks like we need Venafro for Tracy to truly be happy. Now that the Vegas season is over, we won't have to be concerned about Vegas' playoff aspirations without him
2005-09-05 19:48:51
300.   Icaros
Do Tracy and Colborn even bother looking at splits?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-05 19:49:15
301.   capdodger
283 I'll concede that Edwards is not an outfielder either. He just shouldn't be anywhere near a major leauge game.
2005-09-05 19:49:30
302.   Odysseus
if we just get to 300 will this annoying problem of having to click on show/hide go away?
2005-09-05 19:49:57
303.   Uncle Miltie
296- something is wrong with the comments, they aren't showing up when I refresh, I have to click show all comments.

Feliz bunting? Even the Giants announcer is perplexed.

2005-09-05 19:50:14
304.   Bob Timmermann
Bonds story (and interesting sidebar) on

2005-09-05 19:50:56
305.   King of the Hobos
302 Yes, assuming you're only interested in 301 on
2005-09-05 19:51:01
306.   Odysseus
it's now fixed that we got past 300, I don't know why that happens
2005-09-05 19:51:09
307.   Icaros
I would rather have seen Kuo walk Durham than let Schmoll give up the inevitable extra-base hit to him.
2005-09-05 19:51:56
308.   Uncle Miltie
Good move by Schmoll, it sets up the DP.

Nevermind, Alfonzo is coming up.

2005-09-05 19:51:58
309.   King of the Hobos
Saves Schmoll some pitches. Have to assume he was walking him regardless
2005-09-05 19:54:25
310.   Bob Timmermann
The version of the Barry Bonds comeback:

LOS ANGELES -- The Giants should know within the next three days whether Barry Bonds will be able to return in even a limited role for the final three weeks of the season, said Brian Sabean, the team's general manager, and confirmed by the left-handed slugger on Monday.

2005-09-05 19:54:45
311.   natepurcell
bad defense tonight.
2005-09-05 19:54:55
312.   King of the Hobos
Why bother throwing? Geez, might as well hold it
2005-09-05 19:55:02
313.   Uncle Miltie
Not smart by Navarro
2005-09-05 19:56:08
314.   Icaros
I'm ready to see Martin catch. Navarro hasn't made a good throw since being called up.
2005-09-05 19:56:21
315.   Uncle Miltie
Now Tracy will blame Navarro or the defense in general, instead of Edwards.
2005-09-05 19:56:34
316.   Nagman
Getting swept by the Royals is starting to make a lot of sense to me.
2005-09-05 19:56:56
317.   Uncle Miltie
The Giants announcers are screaming. They are going crazy.
2005-09-05 19:57:42
318.   King of the Hobos
314 The question should be why did he throw? Even a good catcher only throws out 50% of the runners, and Durham coming home was a gven

Or Tracy could have been smart and used Kuo

2005-09-05 19:58:42
319.   Nagman
The decoy by Saenz definitely can be categorized as "savvy".
2005-09-05 19:59:34
320.   Bob Timmermann
These two teams scream out "NL WEST"!
2005-09-05 20:00:16
321.   Ken Arneson
Not that many of you care, but: The comment show/hide problem is a bug because of the way I have the SQL data stored in Mysql.

I have one of the tables stored as a non-transactional table. If an insertion on a comment number divisible by 50 gets rolled back, the comment number doesn't get rolled back on that non-transactional table, and that comment number gets skipped.

So if there is no comment #250, for example, the show/hide for comments 250-300 doesn't get printed on the page, and things get screwed up.

Sorry about the bug. I could fix it, but I'm in the middle of rearchitecting the database tables anyway, so I'd rather just move forward than fix old bugs that will disappear in the long run anyway.

2005-09-05 20:00:17
322.   Icaros
I will admit that Izturis has twice the arm (and speed) of Robles.
2005-09-05 20:02:52
323.   Icaros
321 So what you are basically saying is: No #_50=bad.
2005-09-05 20:03:24
324.   Odysseus

I don't know what most of that means, but I interpret it as "there's a problem with the code, we're working on it." Thanks for the info and we appreciate all the hard work

2005-09-05 20:03:26
325.   Uncle Miltie
I hope oldbear was watching this game
2005-09-05 20:04:42
326.   Steve
The only way Izturis has twice the speed of Robles is if you are talking about the pharmaceutical version.
2005-09-05 20:05:03
327.   Icaros
325 You're one of those people who wants everyone to be miserable, huh?
2005-09-05 20:06:22
328.   Icaros
326 I'm not saying Izturis is fast, but it has become very clear recently that Robles is very slow.
2005-09-05 20:07:02
329.   Telemachos
So, what can we say after the debacle of the last four games, and about the season in general?

We continue to put a largely AAA team on the field.

At times throughout the year (though usually not at the same time), Penny, Weaver, and Lowe have looked like stellar pitchers. But, like the team overall, there is absolutely no consistency.

Oscar Robles is a solid bench player and could be counted on as a nice pinch-hitter as well. I'd like to see us keep Jose Cruz Jr and Navarro as well.

But the rest of the players.... GAH.

2005-09-05 20:07:24
330.   Uncle Miltie
327- ? oldbear doesn't think defense is important
2005-09-05 20:07:28
331.   Icaros
328 Choi beats both of them.
2005-09-05 20:07:33
332.   Steve
What about the major league team on the bench? What would you do with them?
2005-09-05 20:08:19
333.   natepurcell
this would be a good time for a HSC 3 run blast
2005-09-05 20:08:35
334.   Icaros
330 Yeah, but he hates the players who made the errors anyway.
2005-09-05 20:08:39
335.   Bob Timmermann
I sense a "Casey at the Bat" ending here.
2005-09-05 20:08:42
336.   Uncle Miltie
speedster Choi is up
2005-09-05 20:08:46
337.   capdodger
Come on Choi! Hit a dinger!!!
2005-09-05 20:08:51
338.   Suffering Bruin
Just turned on the game...

Does a man dare to dream?

2005-09-05 20:08:55
339.   Johnson
Werth's perfect day (0-0, 4BB) sets up...Choi. All of a sudden, it's exciting again!
2005-09-05 20:09:22
340.   Suffering Bruin
Terrible call.
2005-09-05 20:09:40
341.   Suffering Bruin
Good eye.
2005-09-05 20:09:41
342.   Uncle Miltie
Don't walk Hee Seop...Repko's on deck
2005-09-05 20:10:11
343.   Suffering Bruin
Gotta lay off those pitches that jam.
2005-09-05 20:10:43
344.   Bob Timmermann
Vin said Rose is on deck.
2005-09-05 20:10:43
345.   Suffering Bruin
Had to go after that one.
2005-09-05 20:11:17
346.   Suffering Bruin
Get out of play.... YES!
2005-09-05 20:12:37
347.   Suffering Bruin
Benitez needs to make a mistake here. He's due...
2005-09-05 20:14:01
348.   Gen3Blue
Hee Sop Choi! Hee Sop Choi!

Never Mind. Acceptance.

2005-09-05 20:14:02
349.   King of the Hobos
Nice "rally" but I didn't care for the end. How long will Choi be benched for?
2005-09-05 20:14:22
350.   Bob Timmermann
Don't mess with the power of famous poems!
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-09-05 20:14:23
351.   Suffering Bruin
Why? Why do I hope? Why do I hang with every pitch like this?

"Dealing with the Dodgers psychologically" indeed.

2005-09-05 20:14:49
352.   Steve
Valentin and Edwards were in the game for their defense, right?
2005-09-05 20:16:03
353.   Uncle Miltie
Good pitch, Choi can't hit the slider

Duane Kuiper is making my ears bleed.
"GOT HIM!!!!!"

Maybe he should switch to wrestling.

2005-09-05 20:16:05
354.   Gen3Blue
Its better than hanging oneself.(351)
2005-09-05 20:16:21
355.   Suffering Bruin
Right. Gotta have that "D." Valentin has already said he can't hit for power because of the brace so he's in there for his glove.

Edwards can't hit for power, period, but what a glove.

I'm sick...

2005-09-05 20:17:51
356.   Icaros
Seems like a master of motivation like Tracy could get this team winning some ballgames...
2005-09-05 20:18:12
357.   capdodger
385 Dang
2005-09-05 20:19:18
358.   Suffering Bruin
I don't like to use the word choke. But after seeing the replay of the Edwards error, I can't think of a better word to describe the play.

I hate to say it, but he choked.

2005-09-05 20:20:49
359.   King of the Hobos
Rose was on deck according to Vin. Tracy hates having catcher on the becnch, thus Phillips staying at 1st the entire game a few too many times. So Tracy has enough repect for Aybar that he'd bat the 3rd catcher before Aybar? Lefty hitter or not, I like Aybar way better than Rose. Not that it mattered, just showed that Aybar has joined the Perez/Choi list
2005-09-05 20:20:54
360.   capdodger
356 Maybe Tracy should hire Plaschke as his motivational speech writer. At least it would save the rest of us from having to read his dribble.
2005-09-05 20:21:20
361.   Telemachos
358- It looked like in the back of his mind, he couldn't quite decide whether to throw to first or get the runner at second.
2005-09-05 20:21:39
362.   King of the Hobos
359 Beautiful typing there. Should be: Tracy hates having no catcher on the bench
2005-09-05 20:22:33
363.   Suffering Bruin
Tomorrow, as a requirement for teaching in the LAUSD, I am going to get checked for TB. I hear they lightly burn the skin, take the burnt skin, and check to see if you don't have the killer disease.

After watching the Choi AB, I'm looking forward to it.


2005-09-05 20:23:04
364.   King of the Hobos
357 The future does not look good? That can't be good
2005-09-05 20:24:15
365.   Suffering Bruin
361 So he tried to do both on the same throw. :)

Seriously, nighty-night. Barring a miraculous run, we're spoilers. Honestly, I could use a miraculous run.

2005-09-05 20:26:20
366.   XenoDodger
This is bad....... reeeal bad... :(
2005-09-05 20:27:24
367.   Nagman
Miami-FSU still has over 8 min left in the game. And they complain about baseball games being long? Halftime seemed to be about 45 min.
2005-09-05 20:27:58
368.   XenoDodger
Hi to all of course... :)

This is post #2, and I want to say that I think that it is safe to say that, without a "miracle", The Dodgers, are done.

[/Understatement] ;)

2005-09-05 20:29:11
369.   XenoDodger
Post #3:

Though I wish it weren't so... :(

Oh well... At least maybe we can be a "Fly" in the "Giants" ointment... ;)

But until we are mathematically eliminated, I will "keep hope alive" ;)


2005-09-05 20:40:03
370.   Steve
Jim Tracy's post-game comment:

"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"

2005-09-05 20:44:59
371.   King of the Hobos
Expect a good Dodgers game tomorrow. Vero Beach Dodgers that is. All is telling me is that it will be tomorrow. The Dodgers website is worse. I'll guess it'll be at 4 pm pt, and will have an audio feed if not a video one. Danny Muegge or Brian Pilkington will get the start against the Palm Beach Cardinals. I like thier starters better than the LA Dodgers...

C Edwin Bellorin
1B Cory Dunlap
2B Travis Denker
SS Chin-Lung Hu
3B Blake Dewitt
RF Matt Kemp
LF Xavier Paul
CF Jamie Hoffman
DH Anthony Raglani

2005-09-05 21:04:46
372.   Dodgersrock24
If the Dodgers win there next 5 games, then they will still be in contention to win this division. After watching today's game, it doesn't look like there going to win the division. To me, there still in this division, until there mathematically elimated. 30 more days til the Puck drops. Go Kings.
2005-09-05 21:10:50
373.   CanuckDodger
371 -- Hu has not been with the Vero Beach Dodgers for weeks. He is playing in an international tournament right now. The government of Taiwan threatened the Dodgers that they would draft Hu into the army if he was not given permission to play for his country in the tournament.
2005-09-05 21:15:20
374.   Steve
Does La Mesa have an army?
2005-09-05 21:17:40
375.   King of the Hobos
373 That makes sense, then insert the much less interesting Rohan. Nonetheless, I'd still rather watch them in a game of importance (assuming the FSL playoffs are more important than spoiling the Gianst)
2005-09-05 21:19:45
376.   oldbear
Please DePo: TRACYPROOF the lineup now before the entire September is a waste.

Play Choi everyday.
Play Antonio everyday.
Play Willy Aybar some.

DFA Phillips.
DFA Valentin
DFA Edwards

I actually think this game proves just how terribly overrated defense is. We had our 'defensive' team in there, and they still made errors. But of course we only scored 1 run because they were in.

Derek Lowe is actually pitching like a 9mils per year pitcher now at least.

2005-09-05 21:25:47
377.   King of the Hobos
376 Unless they are DFA'd for Grabowski (who he's replacing still hasn't been announced), I doubt they will. Just the fact that Grabowski was called up shows DePo is tanking for a better draft pick. And even if they were DFA'd, Grabowski would replace them which is probably a downgrade..
2005-09-05 21:27:20
378.   Steve
New Haven needs an army too.
2005-09-05 21:45:22
379.   Uncle Miltie
Nice of Tracy to stick up for Choi and Antonio Perez:
"We have some young players out there, and to expect them to perform night in and night out like a seasoned veteran would play, that's asking a little much," Dodgers manager Jim Tracy said.

What? He was talking about 28 year old veteran minor leaguer Mike Edwards who has played baseball professionally for 12 years? Oh.

2005-09-05 21:47:07
380.   sanchez101
It only helps to put your defensive team on the field if you know who your best defensive players are. Im sorry tracy, but repko is a better hitter and fielder than valentin and aybar is a better hitter and fielder than edwards.

I would rather tank for a high draft pick, than try to scuttle the giants season. Im glad their season has turned upwards, i still doubt they will catch SD, but at least this gives them hope in sending out the AARP squad for another season.

2005-09-05 21:47:18
381.   Steve
I don't know. Why is a raven like a writing desk?
2005-09-05 21:51:05
382.   Uncle Miltie
"I actually think this game proves just how terribly overrated defense is. We had our 'defensive' team in there, and they still made errors."
376- our defensive team with everyone healthy would look like this:
C Navarro
1B Choi
2B Kent
SS Izturis
3B Aybar
LF Werth
CF Bradley
RF Drew

Just using the players on the roster (which is what you probably meant) our defensive team would look like this:
C Navarro
1B Kent
2B Aybar
SS Robles
3B Valentin
LF Werth
CF Repko
RF Cruz

I would hardly consider Saenz at 1B, Edwards at 3B, Valentin in LF, and Werth CF the best defensive option at that position on the roster.

2005-09-05 21:59:42
383.   Eric Enders
Vero Beach Dodgers playoff opener is at 3:30 pm PT Tuesday.

Listen live at:

2005-09-05 22:10:53
384.   Eric Enders
Respectfully disagreeing with 382, I think our best possible defensive team is this:

P Weaver
C Navarro
1B Choi
2B Kent
3B Nobody any good -- tossup between Edwards/Aybar/Valentin
SS Robles
LF Werth
CF Repko
RF Cruz

Four, possibly five out of these nine guys played that position in today's lineup.

2005-09-05 22:50:34
385.   capdodger
376 382 384 This game certainly seems to indicate that Tracy's concept of defense is overrated.

Whatever. What else is on?

2005-09-05 22:51:44
386.   Xeifrank
Now that the season is over (acceptance setting in), why doesn't Tracy do something completely unordinary like... perhaps playing our best players consistently. I know it would be a crazy thing to do, but it might throw off the other teams. They'd be like, "what kind of c#*@ do the Dodgers think they are pulling on us", with super sluggers Jason Phillips, Jose Valentin and Mike Edwards on the bench ready to pinch hit we are doomed!"... vr, Xei
2005-09-05 22:55:36
387.   Bob Timmermann
So no one is interested if Barry Bonds plays tomorrow night as is rumored?

Giants fans actually think that this could push them past the Padres.

2005-09-05 23:17:59
388.   capdodger
387 I find Giants fans' belief that Barry is the savior rather amusing. If Barry had been playing left field tonight, that screamer by Kent would have gone to the wall to plate two.

It would have been fun to watch him try to reach it, though. ;-)

2005-09-05 23:19:37
389.   Clive Clements
379 I saw that in the game recap and usually try not to read too much into quotes (unless it could be spun humorously), but that quote shows you exactly the kind of manager Tracy is. How come whenever A Perez or Choi makes an error, he says something about Choi lacking baseball savvy or Perez not being strong enough defensively to start behind Lowe and Weaver? Then Mike "2 spot" Edwards does his crap in the field and Tracy sticks up for him? Bleh.
2005-09-05 23:22:00
390.   Jon Weisman
I think Barry Bonds as a pinch-hitter alone could do the Giants a nice service. Even if he just walks, that is worth something, particularly in a tight game.
2005-09-05 23:40:37
391.   Bob Timmermann
But who would have been the likely person for Bonds to get into a fight with?
2005-09-06 00:30:42
392.   Strike4
Having Bonds back would be great, potentially adding some interest to an otherwise dismal end of a lost season. To name a few... Maybe our wayward Davids could beat a gimpy Goliath. Is Bonds so good he can start playing rusty and still be a factor (see 391). Does he start showing his age. With his fellow 90's power hitters washed up (Sosa, Palmeiro), is Bonds too. Does Giant management continue to talk uncertainly about him staying, leading Bonds to start claiming to be disrespected. Does his reappearance heat up the steriod brouhaha.
2005-09-06 04:35:38
393.   werthgagne31
i've been saying the season is over for awhile now, but since everyone and probably tracy knows it now, why not play our best offensive lineup and see just how much or how little defense matters when you have your best offense on the field.

perez ss
choi 1b
kent 2b
ledee of
seanz 3b
cruz of
navarro c
werth of

2005-09-06 05:02:03
394.   werthgagne31
in 393 i left out robles or aybar giving seanz days off and batting 8th and everyone starting with cruz moved up 1 spot.
2005-09-06 07:52:34
395.   Nagman
I don't think we're going to be spoilers... more like "enhancers".
2005-09-06 08:35:33
396.   Kayaker7
393 I would play someone else besides Saenz and Ledee. I think we should play guys that have a chance of being regulars next season.
2005-09-06 08:50:09
397.   dzzrtRatt
I don't see why Bonds can't get the Giants into the playoffs. They have 7 more games against the Padres, 6 more against the crappy LOB-happy lineups devised by Jim Tracy for the Dodgers, and games out of the division against the flailing Cubs and the underwhelming Nats. The only tough games left on their schedule, apart from the Padres, are a weekend series at Colorado. The Pads schedule isn't too much harder, for example they've got a lot of games against Mike Edwards, Jason Phillips & Co., but they do have seven games against the Rockies.
2005-09-06 09:10:49
398.   dzzrtRatt
396 -- With Drew and Izturis on the DL, aside from Jeff Kent and possibly Dioner Navarro, I don't think we have players on the team right now who have "a chance of being regulars next season."

We're going to have openings for at least one outfielder to replace Bradley, and could use another to upgrade Werth; and we'll surely have openings at the corner infield slots. Not even Jim Tracy would want to start the season with Jason Phillips as his regular first baseman, Saenz is going to be a year older, and Tracy's not giving the job to Choi, who will probably be traded. The chances are more likely that Jim Thome will be our regular first baseman than anyone in the Dodger system now, unless James Loney is very impressive next spring.

At third base, we might have to bring back Bill Madlock. Who's out there we might get? Wes Helms? Joe Randa? Bill Mueller? Mike Lowell? Not a lot of good third basemen available next year. It would be nice if Perez could learn to play the position, but he's shown little aptitude so far.

2005-09-06 09:25:17
399.   fanerman
Well... I just got a subscription to Baseball Prospectus.
2005-09-06 09:26:33
400.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants chances are still pretty remote. Five games is a sizeable deficit to make up at this time of year. The Giants would likely have to run the table against the Padres. And while they've got two great starters in Lowry and Schmidt, they're still trotting out the remains of Brett Tomko to the hill.

And how many more runs can Bonds get the Giants in about 25 games?

The Padres strongest ally is the calendar. Also the Padres aren't playing lose ball anymore. They were 15-12 in August and they are 2-2 in September. They just need to go to the Four Corners offense.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-09-06 09:33:50
401.   Eric Enders
398 - I think either Aybar or Perez has a good chance of being a regular next year. Either one of them is probably better than anyone we could trade for, and more cost-effective than signing a big free agent for a 3B position that Guzman/LaRoche will shortly fill anyway.

Mike Lowell? Are you serious? The Dodgers have five third basemen already under contract who will be better baseball players than Mike Lowell in 2006. (Aybar-Perez-Saenz-LaRoche-Guzman)

2005-09-06 09:40:20
402.   Sam DC
397 OK -- I've been out of the loop a bit and I realize we got ours handed to us by the Rockies in ugly fashion but, really, they are now more of a force/schedule threat than the Dodgers. I'm sorry, call me a homer, and have no doubt that I've been in acceptance since before the All Star break, but that I cannot accept.

My job has me writing some stuff about John Podesta, Dem Strategist/Clinton White House Guy, and for some reason, I keep typing "John DePodesta."

2005-09-06 09:48:19
403.   Bob Timmermann
Tonight would be our best chance of being a "spoiler" tonight. Penny vs. Tomko. I don't have a lot of confidence in our ability to beat Schmidt Wednesday. Mainly because I will be in attendance.
2005-09-06 09:54:06
404.   Sam DC
Wasn't that a Genesis song . . . Tonight, Tonight, oh oh . . .

Phil Collins Genesis; not good Genesis.

2005-09-06 10:54:49
405.   dzzrtRatt
401 no I wasn't serious about Lowell. He's got the lowest OPS of any third baseman in the major leagues this year. I was just trying to illustrate the paucity of options. Yeah, we might as well play Perez there, if (big if) he can withstand the fans booing at him for botching plays.

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