Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodger Entourage
2005-09-09 08:48
by Jon Weisman

Vincent Chase, meet Luke Hochevar.

Tony Jackson of the Daily News, Tim Brown of the Times and John Manuel and Kevin Goldstein of Baseball America are covering the agent wars over the Chaseian Hochevar from the green room.

Perhaps Ari Gold will expand into sports representation. For that matter, Stevie Grant, agent to former talkshow host Larry Sanders, might as well. Now that's an agent competition I'd like to see.

* * *

Perfection City: The 40th anniversary of Sandy Koufax's perfect game is celebrated not only by Ross Newhan in the Times but Rich Lederer at Baseball Analysts. Lederer's father George covered the game for the Press-Telegram and served as the official scorer. Rob McMillin has the audio of Vin Scully's ninth-inning call at 6-4-2.

Meanwhile, Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton combined for a no-hitter in the first game of the Southern League South Division playoffs for Jacksonville, the Dodgers' AA franchise. Audio for the ninth inning is here. And Chuck Tiffany threw five no-hit innings for the Class A Vero Beach before the Dodgers lost the rubber game of the Florida State League East Division playoffs, 4-2. According to Goldstein, it was Tiffany's second consecutive start in which he hung five hitless frames. Tiffany did walk five Thursday.

Thursday, Jim Callis of Baseball America rated Billingsley as the Dodgers' top pitching prospect, suggesting that Tiffany, with "average stuff across the board but a lot of moxie," perhaps projects as a reliever, despite striking out 134 batters in 110 innings this season.

* * *

Dodger Thoughts reader Chris Pocino of Paragon Sports Management in Santa Monica e-mailed about a Hurricane Katrina fundrasing effort by Louisiana native David Dellucci of the Texas Rangers. Fnuds raised will go toward the Louisiana Disaster Recovery Foundation, which is set up by the Louisiana state government and supported by the Louisiana-based nonprofit organization America's Wetland. If you go through Dellucci's site, you can get a custom-made bracelet; you can go straight to the LDRF site to donate if you prefer.

Comments (284)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-09 09:33:38
1.   Suffering Bruin
I shared this with Mr. Jackson already and now I pass it along to y'all.

If my son ever gets really, really good at baseball, I think I'll look up Scott Boras' phone number... so I can have it blocked.

Regardless of his mistakes, regardless of how soon he might become a millionaire, I really feel for a 22-year old kid under this kind of pressure.

2005-09-09 09:37:23
2.   alex 7
I love this morning paper. Thanks Jon. This Hochevar situation is very interesting. Can't wait until he signs and perhaps gives us some details himself if he ditches Boras.

So would this off-season be too early to trade some of our arms in the organization (either minor or major leaguers) for a big OF or SS bat? Perhaps wait one more season until we get guys like Guzman and Laroche up to the big leagues before pulling the trigger on a trade that, together with those guys, can make us the team to beat in the NL?

Or go ahead and deal this winter? Assuming the injury bug regresses to the mean next year, and that even highly touted rookie bats are still rookie bats, one ML bat and perhaps one surprise arm from the minors (Broxton, Jackson, Kuo, Bill) is all we need to take the next step in 2006.

Just seems guys like Tiffany, Billingsly, and Jackson may never be this hot as trade commodities again. Yet they sure look like the real thing worthy of waiting on. Trade OP or Lowe?

2005-09-09 09:38:23
3.   the OZ
This Hochevar thing is increasingly weird. Crasnik's License to Deal may provide some insight in to the Sosnick-Boras thing.

So far, the reports of this situation have bolstered the opinions I formed of the two agents after reading the book: Sosnick acts like a little kid trying to get attention, and Boras is a bully.

Sosnick's personal mission is to beat Boras. It looks like Logan White may have tried to use that psychological quirk against Hochevar by suggesting Luke sign with Sosnick before negotiating, knowing Sosnick would quickly get a deal done just so he could steal a Boras client.

2005-09-09 09:39:02
4.   oldschool62
Is Hochevar worth all the fuss, is he that good?
2005-09-09 09:40:03
5.   DaveP
2- trading Billingsley is grounds for immediate firing - no questions asked.
2005-09-09 09:43:50
6.   Yakface
2- Personaly I'd rather have an excess of grade A homegrown talent then turn into the RedSox or Yankees and become a honda civic full of aftermarket parts.
2005-09-09 09:44:10
7.   Eric Enders
Conflict of interest I:
Nice article by Rich on the Koufax game. It's pretty astonishing that that sort of conflict of interest was ever allowed to happen, with a reporter both writing about the game and serving as official scorer. What if there was, say, a borderline hit/error call by the scorer that prevented Koufax from getting a no-no? I wonder how the game story would have read?

Conflict of interest II:
As I see it, the problem with Boras/Hochevar is that the agent's best interests are diametrically opposed to those of his client. Hochevar simply wants to sign and start playing baseball, while Boras is more concerned with playing hardball and the appearance of toughness, so that he can continue to lure future clients.

2005-09-09 09:45:02
8.   Mark
The concept of Ari Gold representing sports stars disturbs me. On one hand, he's not so much of a shark, so he'd allow Hochevar to do a Dodgers equivalent of Queens Boulevard. On the other hand, holy crap, Ari Gold. The man knows no limits.

I wonder if Scott Boras has ever ditched his daughter's birthday to drive 7 hours to chase down a client.

2005-09-09 09:52:07
9.   Jon Weisman
7, I - that scorer/reporter arrangement happened all the time for decades, as far as I've always understood.
2005-09-09 09:58:09
10.   Eric Enders
9 - Yeah, I know it did. Which doesn't make it any less weird...
2005-09-09 10:13:27
11.   bigcpa
I'm not using my 2 season seats tonight in Loge 136 if anyone is interested. Email
2005-09-09 10:21:15
12.   Jim Tracy
I'm sure everyone already knows this, but no Jake Peavy this weekend?? All signs point to a sweep of the Friars. I am the ultimate optimist, but if we lose even one of the next three games, the season is over. But if we can sweep this series, anything can still happen.

About Luke Hochevar... maybe I am being naive, but if I am a college pitcher who is ready to pitch in the big leagues and wants to pitch in the big leagues, then I don't think it matters to me, if my initial signing bonus is 2.98 million, or 3.5 million (which I think Boras would take). The risk associated with not signing does not outweigh the extra 500K that he might get. Not to mention how he is starting to come off looking in all of this.

2005-09-09 10:32:51
13.   Jon Weisman
I don't think you could throw the worst three starting pitchers in baseball against the Dodgers and feel that all signs point to a sweep. And I say that with love.
2005-09-09 10:33:33
14.   Bob Timmermann
I would say the Dodgers chances of a sweep this weekend have improved from about 2% to about 10%.

The beauty of citing these numbers is that there is no way to test that they are correct.

2005-09-09 10:52:12
15.   still bevens
The Dodgers have had an uncanny ability to make pitchers with terrible records look great. See: Kim, Byung Yung(sp?), and Lima, Jose.
2005-09-09 10:53:03
16.   Eric Enders
The Cardinals also made Jose Lima look great, though...
2005-09-09 10:53:24
17.   ddger
Really enjoyed the LAT article on Koufax. Did anyone ever see Koufax pitch? How fast was Koufax's fastball in his prime?

Which modern day pitcher if any is most similar.

2005-09-09 10:54:19
18.   Eric Enders
By the way, we need an official DT name for the problem described in #15.

The Tomko Principle?
The Fassero Principle?

2005-09-09 10:55:22
19.   Icaros
I watched about half of last night's Giants-Cubs game through the right-field fence at SBC. First time I've seen a game there, and it was free!

My friend was calling out positioning tips to Jeromy Burnitz. He didn't seem interested, though.

2005-09-09 10:56:54
20.   Yakface
Whatever happens this weekend wont nearly make me as happy as finally being able to listen to Scully call a game, its been a major drag the last two weeks due to broadcast restrictions up here in Arcata. Maybe someone can explain to me why the Giants get broadcast rights 300 miles away?
2005-09-09 10:57:15
21.   Eric Enders
"Really enjoyed the LAT article on Koufax. Did anyone ever see Koufax pitch? How fast was Koufax's fastball in his prime?"

Strangely, Koufax AFAIK never had his speed scientifically measured in any way. This despite the fact that earlier pitchers such as Walter Johnson and Bob Feller did.

I saw Koufax pitch one entire game on TV... on a mother of a tape delay, of course. Game 7 of the 1965 World Series still shows up on ESPN Classic occasionally.

2005-09-09 11:04:50
22.   Bob Timmermann
I'm trying to compare how different the mound was at Dodger Stadium in the 1960s as it is now.

Here is a view of Koufax pitching in 1964:

This photo proves nothing, but is cool-looking:

Here is a picture of Hershiser pitching, but I don't know if it has a good picture of the slope of the mound because it's a different angle:

Here is Ramon Martinez:

Fernando, again:

2005-09-09 11:07:00
23.   Bob Timmermann
The anecdotal reports on Koufax were that he threw pretty hard, so I would think he would have been a guy who hit 95 consistently.

However, the pitch that put him in Coooperstown was his curve. People who saw him said it was nearly unhittable and had an incredible break.

2005-09-09 11:08:32
24.   Dave
18 The Erickson Principle would be perfect, if someone would just be willing to make him look good once.
2005-09-09 11:10:27
25.   Eric Enders
This picture, in addition to being cool, gives a good idea of the late 1980s slope:

That looks like a significant difference from the 1960s:

Just eyeballing it, I'm guessing 6-8 inches?

2005-09-09 11:14:23
26.   Jon Weisman
If you look at the photo of the ninth inning in the Times today, at first glance I thought they had left the visiting bullpen gate open. But it appears to have been an illusion.
2005-09-09 11:14:31
27.   Sushirabbit
#18 how 'bout the JTL Principle?
Jim Tracy Lineup Principle....

I am biased, but I was very happy to see Luke sign with Dodgers. There are some great college pitchers this year and next; guys I figure will actually pitch for awhile in the majors, but it's always a guessing game.

Garth trusts Sosnick and Eli finally whittled Hochevar down, Boras played what was dealt him and Hochevar chickened out. None of it looks good. Hopefully Boras will just agree to the same terms. Although, really, the Dodger's are free to crank down the screws now.

2005-09-09 11:16:21
28.   dagwich
In the Jane Leavy (sp?) "Koufax" biography, I remember someone thought that Koufax's fastball could hit about 100 MPH. I saw him pitch a few times in person and as often as possible on TV, and my impression is that 100 sounds about right.

He developed an awesome curve. I can still picture one that he threw in Game 4 of the 1963 series.

2005-09-09 11:16:52
29.   still bevens
Is the players union or whatever investigating the agents or the Dodgers organization or both?
2005-09-09 11:17:54
30.   Icaros
My Dad was at the game pictured in Eric's last photo. I believe it was Sandy's first no-hitter, 1962.
2005-09-09 11:20:33
31.   Eric Enders
29 - I think the MLBPA has the right to investigate, but as was pointed out by someone on BTF, the union has little incentive to go to bat for someone who is not a member.
2005-09-09 11:22:23
32.   Yakface
A quote from Hochever "Thank heavens I contacted Scott and got my wits back under me," Hochevar said. "He got it all under control. I was about to sign a very bad contract. I got my head screwed back on and realized what was going on." I say screw him, we have a few very promising prospects right now so I say why deal with all this BS.
2005-09-09 11:23:11
33.   Jacob L
18 I'd go for the Mercker Principle, assuming we can extend beyond this seasons' expierence.

21 That Game 7 is also the only Koufax I've ever seen, and its a shame because that's the game in which he was famous for having nothing, but gutted it out on fastballs. A great effort, for sure, and a huge part of his legend, but I'd like to see a performance where he had it all working. The best part about that old broadcast is the interview with Vin after the game (roughtly paraphrased):

Vin: You said after game 5 in Los Angeles that you felt 100 years old. How do you feel now?
Sandy: 101, Vin.
Vin: One hundred and one.

2005-09-09 11:25:30
34.   Steve
The Padres made Erickson look good once.
2005-09-09 11:26:25
35.   scareduck
It's not the audio transcript, it's the audio itself at 6-4-2.

3 - I like that explanation. As I said on my blog today, it could be a good idea for the Dodgers to just come out and say they'll give out bonuses to anyone whose agent is not named Scott Boras, at least at the amateur level. It would surely make some of these kids think twice about joining up with him. He tries to paint himself as merely the guy who gets these rich guys to pay up, but he also hobbles plenty of clubs and keeps the best first-round talent out of the hands of the clubs that really need it.

22 - that entire directory contains some very cool pictures. Is there an overlay with captions somewhere?

31 - I don't see why not, as high amateur bonuses make even replacement talent that much more expensive once in the majors.

2005-09-09 11:30:12
36.   Sam DC
Jack McKeon -- closet Moneyballer:

Fredericksburg, Va.: I think the Nats' new stadium should be the same dimensions as RFK, with the same skyline 'wave' effect built in the structure. All the new stadiums look like the old ones anyway. I like the idea of respecting the past and having the guts to demonstrate it and not just pay lip service to it. Your thoughts?

Tom Boswell: The idea of an "echo" of RFK somewhere in the new park is a nice touch. But I wouldn't get too carried away with it.

I talked with Jack McKeon last night about whether the Nationals should keep the RFK fences deep next year and, perhaps, have a true pitcher's park in the new stadium. I was surprised that he thought it was a very good idea. (Hey, you can always move the fence IN. It's tough to knock down those Green Monsters and move 'em back.

McKeon thought that, if you built around pitching, line-drive gap hitters and emphasized speed -- for defensive range in a big park more than stealing bases, which he's not too crazy about -- he thought the nats would be the only team with that formula. In other words, they'd have a unique -- though still tarditional -- baseball style which would give them an advanatge over other teams which are all competing for simnilar players. In other words, you might find "value" in players that other teams don't value highly because they don't suit a bandbox ballpark.

from same chat:

Tom Boswell: . . . The Dodgers have subtracted foul territory with the result that __without moving the outfield walls__ they have changed Dodger Stadium from a famous "pitcher's park" to a statistically neutral field.

Just curious if that last bit is true.

2005-09-09 11:30:12
37.   Jon Weisman
35 - Sorry, Rob. I knew that - just a brain cramp. I'll fix it.
2005-09-09 11:30:58
38.   Jacob L
Re: the Koufax pic in 25. Am I the only one who far prefers the old score board with the lineups, line score, and count to the new one? I'll go one further, how is the new one an improvement in any way?
2005-09-09 11:31:02
39.   Bob Timmermann

Go to and search the photo collection with the name of one of the principals in the photo.

I can't guarantee that the captions are 100% accurate. In fact they are not 100% accurate as most of the people who wrote the captions wern't exactly sports fans.

Anything that was in the "Play by Play" exhibit should have a correct caption. Or one that is "less wrong."

I know there is one photo of Orel Hershiser is a Dodgers uniform and it's dated 1981, so I think that one has issues.

2005-09-09 11:32:16
40.   Jim Tracy
13, 14 - I just wanna hope... can't I just hope?? And Bob... I'd have to disagree, I'd say the chances are at least 16% taking into account park factors (I will be at two of the games).

A couple of years ago, I was 11-0 in Dodgers games attended.. I was so psyched. Since then, I am 11-21 :( and that includes a 6-14 year last year when they won the damn division. But, I am 5-7 this year, and should be at .500 before the weekend is over.

2005-09-09 11:32:59
41.   Steve
40 -- Jim Tracy learns about regression to the mean...the hard way! :)
2005-09-09 11:33:17
42.   Dave
I saw Koufax pitch in person, but only in spring training. I was just a kid; so all those guys were eye-popping fast to me. BUT, I had never seen a curve break like his. Sitting in the stands, I couldn't really see pitched balls move much, but when Koufax threw a curve, I could tell it was a curve. I loved that. Still do, actually.
2005-09-09 11:33:22
43.   Bob Timmermann

Based on the data on, Dodger Stadium still favors pitchers.

2005-09-09 11:35:48
44.   Bob Timmermann
Another Koufax ancedote told by Vin once was that batters sometimes fouled his pitches back into the top deck because he threw so hard.

Since I've gone to Dodger Stadium (1971), I've never seen a pitch that far up and I've only known one batter to foul a ball out of the stadium: Daryle Ward against Darren Dreifort, hitting it over the roof of the blue seats on the first base side.

2005-09-09 11:36:34
45.   Jim Tracy
40 Well, if I wanted to learn about regression to the mean the hard way, I'd have paid more attention to Izturis' at bats since June.
2005-09-09 11:38:03
46.   King of the Hobos
32 Is this a real quote?

36 Same old story, fairly neutral on homers and hits, but few doubles and triples to give an overall pitching advantage

2005-09-09 11:38:05
47.   Steve
Do I believe in regression to the mean? I'm not sure that I do. Do I believe that our young players are mean? They are not.
2005-09-09 11:38:06
48.   Jon Weisman
38 - Well, it has more flexibility. I think the color of the lights is lousy, though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a vertical scoreboard in the shape of a boxscore. It's the only way to go.

2005-09-09 11:38:29
49.   Bob Timmermann
I just looked at those ESPN stats again and it has the BOB as the top pitcher's park in the majors and that seems wrong to me.

If that's the case, then the DBacks must have some really (x20) bad pitchers.

2005-09-09 11:39:11
50.   Jacob L
44 The first time I sat in the top deck was in 1988. I believe it was a Hershiser/Gooden duel that we lost 1-0. May have also been the game in which Alfredo Griffin's wrist was broken??

Anyway, being the first time up there, I mused out loud, there must never be any foul balls hit here. Old guy behind me says, "Son, there've been 9 foul balls in the top deck since 1962." Turns out he and his wife had tickets in the last row in front of the elevator shaft, and had never missed a game.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-09 11:39:54
51.   Jim Tracy
We have the greatest group of young kids in the majors. They give professional at bats, eat Wheaties cereal, tuck in their shirts and shave their faces. That is a lot of effort put in by people who were not expected to be as big a part of this ballclub in spring and are now clean-shaven.
2005-09-09 11:40:39
52.   Jim Tracy
Steve.. for some reason, you bring out the rambling Jim Tracy in me.
2005-09-09 11:41:03
53.   Bob Timmermann
If the scoreboard pictured at the bottom of the page were in English, would it be what Jon was looking for?

2005-09-09 11:41:12
54.   Steve
Though of course, Milton Bradley has regressed to the mean. But it's still ok.
2005-09-09 11:42:08
55.   Icaros
Old guy behind me says, "Son, there've been 9 foul balls in the top deck since 1962."

Sounds like you met yourself a Timmermann.

2005-09-09 11:43:06
56.   Icaros
54 So he was black, then not-so-black, now back to black?
2005-09-09 11:45:12
57.   Jacob L
48, 53 They do sometimes put up a vertical lineup, but then its only one team at a time, and then the take it down to show some other nonsense like the players' signature. I freaking need to see who's in the game at all times. Maybe they're trying to sell more scorecards.
2005-09-09 11:48:16
58.   Bob Timmermann
God bless that man!
2005-09-09 11:49:44
59.   Jon Weisman
53 - Believe it or not, I can't view tinyurls at work.

57 - Oh, I'd solve your problem. I literally want the scoreboard to replicate the box score. Columns for ab, r, h ... both lineups at once, doubles, etc. in paragraph form, pitcher lines at the bottom,

2005-09-09 11:50:43
60.   scareduck
54 - not just regressed to the mean, but to the mean-spirited.
2005-09-09 11:52:45
61.   Eric Enders
39, last sentence -- many of the photos appear to be from spring training, so not necessarily.

From browsing, Holman Stadium's mound in the 1960s appears a lot shorter than Dodger Stadium's.

2005-09-09 11:53:11
62.   Icaros
59 What if, to go along with the replicated box score, there had to be a new Plaschke editorial on the screen every inning?

Would that be worth it?

2005-09-09 11:56:43
63.   Bob Timmermann
How about this:
2005-09-09 11:58:14
64.   Bob Timmermann
I still think the picture of Hershiser dated 1981 is off.
2005-09-09 11:58:17
65.   Steve
62 -- Finally, a medium for which three word sentences are ideal.
2005-09-09 11:58:21
66.   Jon Weisman
63 - that's a start.
2005-09-09 12:03:41
67.   Icaros

"Poor defense, indeed."
"Cesar's team, indeed."
"Tracy is brilliant."
"Where's Alex Cora?"
"Heart and Soul?"

2005-09-09 12:04:03
68.   popup
#17, I have seen Sandy pitch often. Living near Seattle I have seen Randy Johnson pitch quite a few times as well. I think Sandy was faster than Randy, particularly in the later innings of games.

I was fortunate to see Sandy pitch the last game of his National League career in 1966. Pitching on two days rest he threw fastball by the Phillies all game long. He tired a bit in the ninth and I remember Bill White hitting a long double off the scoreboard to drive in a couple of runs. The last hitter in the inning was Jackie Brandt and Sandy struck him out on a fastball I don't think anyone could have hit.

Thank you Sandy for the way you have conducted yourself on and off the field. I have never been embarrased being a Sandy Koufax fan. It was a privilege watching you pitch.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-09 12:05:30
69.   Bob Timmermann
You could have little Plaschke summaries as each player comes up to bat

For example, using Wednesday's game:

Jayson Werth - Not a leadoff man
Oscar Robles - No Cesar Izturis
Jeff Kent - Deficient character
Olmedo Saenz - Reclamation project
Jose Cruz - I didn't know he was on the team
Mike Edwards - Good character, bad bat
Dioner Navarro - Not Shawn Green
Jose Valentin - Google Boy's folly
Jeff Weaver - Head case

2005-09-09 12:06:52
70.   Icaros
69 Don't forget pinch-hitter "Hee-Seop Who?"
2005-09-09 12:09:52
71.   Icaros
Back to tennis, I'm watching Mary Pierce vs. Elena Dementieva.

I want to live in a quiet kingdom populated by nothing but Russian female tennis players.

2005-09-09 12:12:40
72.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers who played in the 2004 Division Series who are still on the active roster (i.e. not disabled)

Jayson Werth
Jason Grabowski
Hee-Seop Choi
Jeff Weaver
Yhency Brazoban
Duaner Sanchez
Giovanni Carrara
Elmer Dessens

I count 24 players appearing in the Division Series last year. Who was the only kid on the outside of the candy store looking in? I can't figure out who. I think it was a pitcher.

2005-09-09 12:14:05
73.   Bob Timmermann
Watching Mary Pierce and her continually calling timeouts and saying she's hurt and whining, I'm not surprised that she and Roberto Alomar didn't stay together. That would be a pair to draw to.

Or we could just engage in scurrilous gossip....

2005-09-09 12:14:59
74.   Fallout
Can someone tell me why the Dodgers were so hot to get Navarro when they already had Russell Martin?
2005-09-09 12:16:11
75.   Icaros
73 I'm waiting for her to spit in the umpire's face.
2005-09-09 12:18:29
76.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably Navarro was close to being major league ready than Martin. And he gets paid a lot less than Shawn Green. And if Martin turns out to be better, other teams would want Navarro, so he could be dealt.
2005-09-09 12:20:24
77.   molokai
With all the Koufax talk I have to recommend to all baseball fans the Jane Leavy (sp?) "Koufax" biography mentioned above.

As far as Luke goes if Boras really won't negotiate with Logan White from this point on then the Dodgers should just end it. Depo can't step in and undermine White at this point because of an agent. I'm going to trust Logan White on this and after reading all the articles it looks to me like the other agent is the weasel. Under pressure! How can anyone say under pressure given today's world. From this point on he will have it easier then 99% of the world's population. Give me a break, how tough is it to decide to take a 2.3 million bonus and get your career started. This man is already 22 and he does not have time to lose. To bad he could have been the Dodgers "cool hand luke".

2005-09-09 12:20:26
78.   Jon Weisman
74 - Navarro more major-league ready at the time, and Jason Phillips was just a twinkle in Jim Tracy's eye. After the Koyie Hill trade, the system basically had no catchers beyond Martin.
2005-09-09 12:21:51
79.   Icaros
76 Or LA could have two good catchers for once, instead of one good catcher and Paul Bako/David Ross/Chad Kreuter.
2005-09-09 12:22:28
80.   Fallout
76. Bob Timmermann

Hmmm. OK. They sure did work hard to get him. He was a also "key" that that 3-way trade that fell through.

2005-09-09 12:22:59
81.   Eric Enders
2005-09-09 12:25:03
82.   Eric Enders
Martin was also not considered anywhere near as strong a prospect 9 months ago as he is now. Successfully making the jump to AA is the most difficult jump in any prospect's career. Martin had not yet done that when the Navarro trade was made.

I still don't see why people consider having 2 good catchers to be a bad thing.

2005-09-09 12:26:55
83.   Icaros
81 I think I remember Ishii being dropped from the playoff roster.
2005-09-09 12:28:06
84.   Jon Weisman
80 - well, don't lose sight of the fact that the main motivation of the deal was of course saving some Green green. They worked hard to get Navarro to increase the upside of this as a side benefit.

82 - It's not a bad thing at all, and as you correctly point out, Martin was (and frankly, still is) a ways from being a sure thing.

2005-09-09 12:28:55
85.   Steve
Plane travel would be much cheaper if they would just put one engine on my plane instead of four.
2005-09-09 12:32:59
86.   King of the Hobos
72 Tom Wilson? Blasted a useless homer in the first game.

Ishii was not on the roster for the division series

2005-09-09 12:33:01
87.   Icaros
Mary Pierce looks like a schoolteacher from the 1800s.

Elena Dementieva just looks good.

2005-09-09 12:33:51
88.   Jon Weisman
Who remembers Carling Bassett?
2005-09-09 12:34:36
89.   Bob Timmermann
But who was the mysterious 25th player? Was it Scott Stewart?

Mary Carrillo and John McEnroe are not happy that Mary Pierce is winning. They didn't like the fact that Pierce was able to finagle a 12-minute break after the first set to have a trainer work on "injuries".

2005-09-09 12:34:45
90.   Icaros
86 That useless home run is probably the greatest moment in Tom Wilson's life.
2005-09-09 12:35:23
91.   Fallout
84. Jon Weisman

True. The Dodgers needed to cut payroll to keep them well the under the 100m they promised.

2005-09-09 12:35:51
92.   Bob Timmermann

I do. I believe she's about the same age as me (39). I think she has a bunch of kids now.

2005-09-09 12:38:45
93.   Icaros
I'm sure Jim Bowden would rather have Shawn Green than Dioner Navarro.
2005-09-09 12:40:31
94.   King of the Hobos
Let's see...

Venafro (is he your man?)




I'm missing someone as well

2005-09-09 12:40:41
95.   Icaros
When did tennis skirts become three inches short, exactly?
2005-09-09 12:40:48
96.   Bob Timmermann
Carling Bassett-Seguso turns 38 in October.

Records say she left the pro tour in 1991.

2005-09-09 12:42:35
97.   King of the Hobos
94 Did Sanez make it? Bob didn't include him in 72
2005-09-09 12:42:57
98.   Im So Blue
89 The 25th player was not a pitcher...would you believe it was Olmedo Saenz?
2005-09-09 12:43:10
99.   Icaros
Match point Pierce...
2005-09-09 12:44:25
100.   Icaros
Brawn triumphs over beauty once again.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-09 12:44:38
101.   fanerman
PSA: There's a new Hee Seop Choi post on Yard Work (
2005-09-09 12:44:43
102.   Bob Timmermann

I think it had to be Saenz.

2005-09-09 12:45:42
103.   Jon Weisman
96 - Don't forget about this

2005-09-09 12:45:47
104.   Icaros
I think Pierce took an injection of juice after the first set.
2005-09-09 12:46:31
105.   Bob Timmermann
Calling Mary Pierce "French" always amuses me. She speaks French about as well as I do.

I wonder if she ever goes to France except to play in the French Open or maybe for some Fed Cup matches.

2005-09-09 12:48:33
106.   Icaros
Do they ever have all-Russian pro tournaments? That I'd pay to see.
2005-09-09 12:49:54
107.   Icaros
I'm thinking of changing my screen name to Humbert Humbert.
2005-09-09 12:51:37
108.   Icaros
Sharapova is up next. Oh my...
2005-09-09 12:51:37
109.   Kayaker7
96 Carling Basset married Jeff Seguso, the career doubles player? Some guys have all the luck.
2005-09-09 12:53:25
110.   Bob Timmermann

Probably in Russia.

Or at tennis academies in Florida.

I will root for Kim Clijsters just to make Icaros unhappy.

2005-09-09 12:54:04
111.   Kayaker7
107 Don't you have to pay royalties to Nabakov?
2005-09-09 12:55:58
112.   Bob Timmermann
Personally, I always thought that Lindsay Davenport would have been a good match for me because:
1) she is height appropriate for me
2) she is extraordinarily wealthy

I think those two things are the foundations of any good relationship aren't they?

2005-09-09 12:56:29
113.   Eric Enders
Yesterday, California politicians
Today, tennis players

Tomorrow... ?

2005-09-09 13:02:59
114.   Fallout
112. Bob Timmermann

I don't think height really matters...

2005-09-09 13:06:31
115.   Yakface
46- Yes that is an actual quote it's from a baseball america article on the ESPN site.
2005-09-09 13:08:16
116.   ddger
Bob, check out Daniela Hantuchova (supposed to have longest legs 44 inches in female tennis). I'm not sure how they measure the legs.

2005-09-09 13:12:29
117.   Bob Timmermann
Women in general have longer legs than men proportionally. I'm 6'5" and I wear pants that are 35" in length.

You don't want to be the person sitting BEHIND me at Dodger Stadium or the movies.

Once when my brothers and I went to a movie together (we're all tall) and we sat down, we could hear a woman audibly groan as we sat down and then say, "Honey, we're behind people who are ... tall."

2005-09-09 13:14:48
118.   ddger
117. Good thing you don't have to drive a Mini.
2005-09-09 13:15:01
119.   Bob Timmermann
For those watching the U.S. Open, just what is the couple in the American Express commerical going to see? I can't tell what is on the stage. Or is that the point?
2005-09-09 13:15:43
120.   Bob Timmermann

I've sat in a Mini. They are quite comfortable.

2005-09-09 13:16:55
121.   DaveP
117 - very similar when I get together with my brothers. We stand: 6'7", 6'7", 6'4", 6'3", 6'2"

You do not want to be sitting behind us at a game.

2005-09-09 13:17:06
122.   ddger
120. Can anyone sit in the driver's side rear seat when you are driving?
2005-09-09 13:17:39
123.   Jim Hitchcock
117 - That would have been the time to insert the Mystery Science Theater 3000 routine.
2005-09-09 13:18:18
124.   Bob Timmermann
I've only sat in a Mini's driver seat. I don't think anyone of any size can sit in the back.
2005-09-09 13:19:33
125.   Jim Hitchcock
121 - Damn, Dave. Being 6'2 and considered the runt of the family...
2005-09-09 13:20:16
126.   ddger
I feel short (5.11) now.
2005-09-09 13:20:42
127.   bokonon42
116 I'm not sure how they measure the legs.

I am, and I've been applying for that job for years. No dice.

2005-09-09 13:21:54
128.   Yakface
121-Are you guys like Russian experimental genome soldiers or something? Just kidding, my whole family is over 6'3 even my 16 yr little brother and even younger 12-15 yr old cousins but me I'm the only modest one at an avg 5'10.
2005-09-09 13:22:40
129.   DaveP
125 - :) I check in at 6'4". My "little" brothers are 6'7" (twins). funny thing is my dad is about 5'10" (mom is 5'8").
2005-09-09 13:24:17
130.   ddger
127. You need to open up your own tailer shop.

Bob might not have to wear his UV shirt tomorrow since it won't be so hot.

2005-09-09 13:25:31
131.   Jim Hitchcock
129 - So, you actually got hand me downs from your younger brothers? That is so unfair :)
2005-09-09 13:25:50
132.   ddger
130. tailer=tailor
2005-09-09 13:27:25
133.   Bob Timmermann
My family checks in at 6'5", 6'3", 6'0" and 5'9".

My father was 6'0" at his best, but before he passed away I think he was about 5'9" or so after he got hurt in an auto accident and I think that tweaked his back and gave him a permanent slouch. My mom was only 5'6".

At birth, the "runt" of the litter weighed about 8 1/2 lbs. I used to fare poorly in contests to guess the weight of coworker's babies. I always guessed 9 lbs or so. I didn't realize that I was on the freak side.

2005-09-09 13:28:33
134.   Bob Timmermann
I will wear the UV shirt. My left forearm has a patch that is permanently discolored from getting sunburn sitting in similar seats last year.
2005-09-09 13:29:28
135.   Icaros

How can you root against Maria Sharapova now when she's wearing UCLA colors for you?

2005-09-09 13:30:18
136.   molokai
I had to change my Laker seats because of people like you. Of course you could have been 5'10 and I still wouldn't have been able to see over you. Staples center must have been built by the same engineers who built the Dodger additions.
2005-09-09 13:30:21
137.   Bob Timmermann
Now the IBM commercial is bugging me. It has a truck that is lost on the way to Fresno. Someone tells them that they are headed to Albuquerque.

If a truck driver was so far lost in that respect, I would say that the guy either didn't take enough speed at the last truck stop or they are unaware of the presence of Nevada and Arizona on maps.

2005-09-09 13:31:04
138.   Bob Timmermann
I like Kim Clijsters extraneous consonants in her last name.
2005-09-09 13:32:11
139.   Yakface
Hochever is an idiot saying he was blinded by 2.98 MILLION DOLLARS, honestly Boras is in this kids head feeding him nonsense, when I think of Boras I think of the character that played lucifer in the Passion, you know the scene where he tempts jesus to like eat or something.
2005-09-09 13:32:25
140.   molokai
You still guessing 9 pounds or did you figure it out:)
You really do have a runt of the litter but he would still be bigger then any of my 4 brothers. Or was that a sister which would make her a good size vollyball player.
2005-09-09 13:33:22
141.   Jim Hitchcock
134 - Thanks for the warning. Think I'll wear a long sleeve white shirt so I can roll down the sleeves if necessary.

Not to mention the fact that it's my only clean shirt...

2005-09-09 13:33:35
142.   molokai
Commercials were the start of the dumming down of the United States.
2005-09-09 13:34:52
143.   Yakface
142-And here I always thought commercials were supposed to teach us things.
2005-09-09 13:36:07
144.   Bob Timmermann
Surprisingly, none of the next generation in my family was over 9 lbs at birth.

However, my 7-year old nephew wears size 8 men's shoes.

One of my 2 6-year old nieces is quite tall (well the other one is too). However, she doesn't seem to be much of an athlete. She got her first pair of soccer cleats and immediately started tap dancing in them.

2005-09-09 13:36:14
145.   Icaros
I'm telling you, the camera people on these tennis matches are either perverts, or have perverts (like me) in mind.

The Kim Clijsters awaiting-serve-from-behind angle is almost Penthouse-esque. It's better than seeing her from the front.

They almost all have great bodies, but it's the Russian girls' painfully cute faces that put them over the top for me.

2005-09-09 13:38:29
146.   Jim Hitchcock
This is a case of Icaros falling hard...
2005-09-09 13:40:23
147.   Icaros
I've been hit by the thunderbolt.
2005-09-09 13:44:38
148.   King of the Hobos
133 Our runt was 9 lbs, 9 oz. That was my sister, I managed to get 10 lbs, 12 oz (for the sake of my mother, we are her only children)

144 My dad wears size 7 shoes, 7 year olds beat him. I'm still bigger than your nephew at 9

2005-09-09 13:47:42
149.   Bob Timmermann

Be careful if Maria Sharapova starts your car.

2005-09-09 13:48:34
150.   Eric Enders
"Now the IBM commercial is bugging me. It has a truck that is lost on the way to Fresno. Someone tells them that they are headed to Albuquerque."

I had no idea Bug Bunny's kid became a truck driver....

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-09 13:48:40
151.   Icaros
I weighed 9 lbs., 8.5 oz. They had to cut me out.
2005-09-09 13:48:43
152.   Eric Enders
2005-09-09 13:49:36
153.   Icaros
149 I want to hear her list the days of the week in English.
2005-09-09 13:49:40
154.   ddger
152. shortest post ever?
2005-09-09 13:50:37
155.   Uncle Miltie
Donald Sterling has generously donated $15,000 for the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
2005-09-09 13:53:11
156.   Jon Weisman
Speaking up for the small fry ...

I was about 3-foot-8 in Kindergarten. I was 4-foot-8 when I started junior high.

Somehow, I made it to 5-10 and for that, I am ever so grateful. I am the tallest one in my family.

2005-09-09 13:54:12
157.   Eric L
I'll chime in with the family height thing..

My brother and I are both 6'3. Dad is 6'0, Mom is 5'10. And then we have my little sister.. she is barely 5'2.

2005-09-09 13:54:22
158.   bokonon42
Is one's own birth weight the sort of thing most men know?
2005-09-09 13:54:32
159.   King of the Hobos

2005-09-09 13:54:54
160.   King of the Hobos
154 I think I win with 159
2005-09-09 13:56:43
161.   Eric Enders
No, the shortest post ever is the nonexistent #50 we had a week or two ago.
2005-09-09 13:56:59
162.   Yakface
158-Only if you have nothing else to be proud of.
2005-09-09 13:58:38
163.   Bob Timmermann

If you're a large child and you have a mother who likes to tell you how hard it was to give birth to you it is.

And my mother said she was embarrassed once when a woman, looking in the nursery window at one of my brothers (who was even bigger than me), said "I would hate to be the woman who gave birth to that thing."

2005-09-09 13:58:59
164.   Icaros
Despite being large at birth, I was 4'10", 85 lbs. at the start of 8th grade.

I ultimately made it to around 5'9"-5'10", 160-165 lbs., taller than both of my parents and all of my nonexistent siblings.

2005-09-09 14:01:52
165.   Icaros
162 You know what they say about the size of a man at birth...
2005-09-09 14:04:49
166.   bokonon42
163- Ah. That makes sense, I was just feeling left out. I always made sure to give my mother plenty of more up-to-date things to gripe about to her friends.
2005-09-09 14:08:48
167.   popup
Just finished listening to the ninth inning of Sandy's perfect game again. I have heard it so many times I can hear Vin's voice when I read a written transcript of his great call. The tape still sounds fresh to me everytime I hear it. Dodger fans were certainly fortunate that Vin was there to describe Sandy in his prime.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-09 14:09:09
168.   Bob Timmermann

That's it a good indicator of whether or not his mother had gestational diabetes....

2005-09-09 14:11:15
169.   Yakface
168- hmmm. I dont understand.
2005-09-09 14:12:28
170.   Bob Timmermann
I remember watching the 1985 World Series with my mom and my dad and one of my brothers was with me.

That night my mom decided to impart all of the advice she had on how to handle "monthly" issues. She had no daughters and she had all this good advice saved up. She wasn't going to let it to go to waste.

And until now, I thought the intensive psychotherapy had suppressed that memory.

2005-09-09 14:13:47
171.   Bob Timmermann

Women who give birth to very large children are prone to getting diabetes while pregnant.

2005-09-09 14:14:19
172.   Yakface
170-Sorry you wasted your money on all that therapy Bob.
2005-09-09 14:16:23
173.   Yakface
171- is that for women that go the 9 months and have a large baby or the women that go over 9 months and have a large baby, no answer is really needed.
2005-09-09 14:16:31
174.   sanchez101
I can't see how Boras is negotiating with Hochevar's best interest in mind. I think Wade Townsends situation in the 2004 and 2005 draft illustrates why.

Townsend was draft 8th overall by the Baltimore Orioles, he was considered one of the elite college pitching prospects of the draft. The Orioles blundered badly by offering him only $1.6 million, which was below even slot money(about $2.2 million). Townsend was so insulted by that offer that he went back to school(he thought he could still negotiate with Baltimore, but MLB wouldnt allow it). Because of this he entered this years draft and was again drafted 8th by the Devil Rays. But, because he was one year older, had not pitched in college that year, and didnt have the leverage of going back to school he was forced to sign for $1.6 million, the same amount that he considered an insult.

Hochevar is in a similar case. If he thinks that next year he will get drafted higher he's dreaming. He'll be one year older, and just as experienced as the elite college pitchers in 2006. Moreover, the class of 2006 is overloaded with college pitching talent. Of the top 5 college prospects for the 2006 draft, 4 are pitchers. Once you figure in college hitters, and high school talent, it seems very, very unlikely that Hochevar could get drafted in the top 5 where the slot money is more than $2.5 million. Really, Hochevar be lucky to go in the top 10. Why would a team pay more than slot money to a 22-year old pitcher, who hasnt pitched in a year, and who doesnt have any leverage? Whatever the Dodgers are offering him, whether it be $2.3 million or up to $3+ million, this is the best offer Hochevar is ever going to see.

Why is boras convincing him that $2.85 million isnt good enough? Am I missing something here? I can't see how Boras is acting in Hochevar's best interest here. Given that Hochevar can't go back to school, the Dodgers will probably just wait him out. I'd offer him $2.5 million and if he waits long enough, he'll realize next June that no team in the draft will give him more.

2005-09-09 14:18:06
175.   OaklandAs
119 Carling Bassett-Seguso (married to Robert Seguso, I believe) is playing in the U.S. Open Ladies Senior Doubles right this minute, on Court 13. She's partnered with Catarina Lindquist-Ryan, against Ros Fairbank and Ilana Kloss.
2005-09-09 14:19:46
176.   molokai
Starting to learn more about my fellow DT posters then my own family. Not sure if that is a bad or good thing.
My wife is 5 feet and my best friend married a girl who is 5'10 and wears 3-6 inch heals. Needless to say my wife does not like to take pictures with her.
2005-09-09 14:20:12
177.   Bob Timmermann
The head of FEMA was reassigned to Washington because "he can more efficiently work there."

Sort of like how Scott Erickson could work out his problems in Las Vegas.

2005-09-09 14:21:45
178.   gcrl

i was also going to mention (and i suppose i am doing so now) that albuquerque has long been the butt of "lost" jokes, using the bugs bunny line ("i should've taken a left turn at albuquerque) as proof of at least one instance. i think it is just a fun name to say. say it with me: albuquerque.

2005-09-09 14:25:17
179.   Eric Enders
As Rudolfo Anaya likes to point out, ABQ is currently spelled the way it is is because its residents couldn't spell. The original name was Alburquerque.

The residents of Ptarmigan, Alaska, had the same problem, but they just solved it by changing the spelling to "Chicken."

2005-09-09 14:26:38
180.   Icaros
Sharapova is getting iced by Clijsters. Do they have a match for third place?

I'm much more interested in watching Sharapova-Dementieva.

2005-09-09 14:28:05
181.   Eric Enders

That kinda sounds like a disease.

A disease I wouldn't mind catching, obviously.

2005-09-09 14:29:08
182.   Icaros
181 Sometimes it's worth the trip to the doctor.
2005-09-09 14:30:21
183.   Kayaker7
171 Gestational diabetes causes the fetus to grow unusually large, rather than the large baby causing the diabetes. The high insulin levels cause the fetus to gain too much weight, much of it fat, and underdevelopment of internal organs can occur.
2005-09-09 14:30:57
184.   Bob Timmermann
There is no consolation match. They don't even have one at the NIT anymore! They do have one for the soccer World Cup, which has always surprised me.

The NFL had a third place game of sorts from 1960-69. I think it was called either the Bert Bell Charity Game or the Playoff Bowl.

The NFL doesn't like to talk about it and does not recognize any of the games as official.

2005-09-09 14:32:29
185.   molokai
I've seen no scernario where Luke will get more by staying in school this year.

Hopefully Luke is a better pitcher then Townsend otherwise who cares. Never been able to get behind drafted players taking such a hard stand. Free agents I understand because they have done something but until you do something why should the team take all the risk. Never was able to forget what JD Drew did to the Phillies and while he's a solid ballplayer I have a hard time rooting for him. That was the 1st time I ever heard of Scott Boras. I found it interesting that Boras was using Philip Humber, the Mets' 2004 first-round pick who signed for a $4.2 million major league deal with a $3 million bonus as a comp in the BA article considering he just underwent TJ surgery this summer. I think I would have used someone who paid off on the investment not someone whose team's 7 million investment was just washed down the drain.

2005-09-09 14:33:37
186.   ryu
Vin Scully refered to Joel Amalfitano as an 'original bonus boy' in the 9th inning of the Koufax perfect game. What's a 'bonus boy'?
2005-09-09 14:33:41
187.   Icaros
Even the Little League World Series has a consolation game. Michael Jackson was probably glued to that one.
2005-09-09 14:35:24
188.   Kayaker7
From Yahoo! sports, regarding the San Diego series: ``We realize there's a huge series waiting for us,'' Los Angeles manager Jim Tracy said.

I guess this means Choi and Perez will be strictly bench material. Can't trust this huge series to these two.

2005-09-09 14:36:34
189.   Bob Timmermann
If you received a signing bonus over a certain amount (I think it was $10-20,000) major league teams were required to keep that player on the major league roster for two seasons I believe.

The rule was modified a bit.

The usual term was "bonus baby". Sandy Koufax was a famous example of one.

2005-09-09 14:37:24
190.   Yakface
185-Whats going on reminds me of getting a new girls number from the bar, Me being the Dodgers and Luke being the girl, I wait the usual three days before the phone call i call she says call back later I call back later she says call back later so i say to hell with it and throw away the number, a week later she calls and wants to go out I say okay only now she tells her friend we are gonna go out and her friend tells her not to since she's the one that had to call me for the date, now no one gets what they want and do I care? hell no because she's 1 in 3.7 billion.
2005-09-09 14:37:41
191.   Jon Weisman
175 - Not only that, but her son is playing in the U.S. Open juniors

2005-09-09 14:38:31
192.   Eric Enders
Used to be a rule that if you got a signing bonus over $5,000, you weren't allowed to be sent to the minor leagues. Which led to a lot of 17-18-19 year olds riding the pine in the majors while stunting their development. Some of these guys, like Sandy Koufax and Harmon Killebrew, turned out beautifully. Most of them, not so much.

Anyway, they came to be known as "bonus boys" or "bonus babies."

2005-09-09 14:39:23
193.   Icaros
Sharapova pulls out a set two tiebreak.
2005-09-09 14:42:12
194.   Bob Timmermann
I think the amateur draft ended the bonus baby rule. But if you look at the roster for the 1965 Dodgers, you will see that the team had to carry Willie Crawford and Mike Kekich on the roster all season and they rarely played.

Crawford was just 18, but he did get a hit in the World Series. Kekich did not appear in the World Series.

2005-09-09 14:42:45
195.   Eric Enders
Clearing up the discrepancy between #184/192

1949-53 the amount was $6,000
1954-57 it was $4,000

or so says Jon Light in the Cultural Encyclopedia of Baseball.

2005-09-09 14:43:57
196.   Yakface
192-Could it be possible that Jim Tracy see's Antonio Perez as a Bonus baby so he doesnt let him play?
2005-09-09 14:44:02
197.   Bob Timmermann

But what was the threshold in the 1960s. Because the Dodgers certainly didn't want to play the 1965 season with a 23-man roster unless they had to.

2005-09-09 14:44:15
198.   Eric Enders
Oh, and I also meant to say that the bonus rule was abolished after 1957. At the time of its abolition 21 bonus babies were on major league rosters.
2005-09-09 14:47:31
199.   Bob Timmermann
The #1 pick in the NHL draft, Sidney Crosby, signed with the Pittsburgh Penguins for an annual salary of $850,000 plus incentives.

And Crosby will contribute immediately to his team unlike Hochevar.

Moral of the story: Raise your children so they can have Scott Boras "advise" them.

2005-09-09 14:50:52
200.   sanchez101
199. or, if you care about that much about the money, dont bother playing hockey.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-09 14:50:59
201.   Eric Enders

And, not that I follow hockey, but I believe Crosby is considered the best prospect to come along in many, many years (since Lindros?)

He's a much bigger prospect in hockey than Hochevar is in baseball...

2005-09-09 14:51:52
202.   bokonon42
190- One in 18,726, actually.

2005-09-09 14:51:54
203.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. Reading The Wikipedia Koufax entry. Never knew he was married to Richard Widmark's daughter:

Also has a link to Scully's call of the ninth inning of the perfecto. I've got a lot of catching up to do on Popup...

2005-09-09 14:52:45
204.   Eric Enders
If it was the Angels whom Hochevar was being difficult with, Plaschke would probably be on the phone right now interviewing Matt Harrington for a big, scary feature story.
2005-09-09 14:53:08
205.   molokai
From Will Carrol of BP

"I wouldn't blame Paul DePodesta if he was curled up behind his desk in a fetal position right now. His team is already on its way to near record levels of injury days and dollars lost, and then comes this: Cesar Izturis will have Tommy John surgery. He was on the DL for a back problem when the elbow seemed to get worse. Izturis has a stretched and structurally unsound ligament, damaged by the lingering effects of an injury he suffered as a Little Leaguer. Unlike a pitcher, Izturis will be ready for spring training without noticeable effect. "

He's expecting Izzy to back in time to start 2006 which is not what we have been hearing. I put a lot of stock in Carrol as he's usually very good at this. So, I guess we don't need to go hunting for a SS this winter. At least I know Eric thinks so, Oldbear probably not so much.

2005-09-09 14:56:01
206.   Eric Enders

There are better shortstops than Izturis. I was merely presenting the viewpoint that he is not, in fact, Satan.

Anyway, what's with all the conflicting reports on how long his recovery might take? Carroll says he should be ready by spring training (which is late February); Gurnick says the All-Star Break (mid-July). That's a pretty big difference.

2005-09-09 14:58:18
207.   molokai
Matt Harrington is the poster boy of bad bad decision making but at least he had the excuse of being only 18. He really was screwed by his agent and the parents are as much to blame because they should be a big part of the process for a 18 year old.
Luke is 22 and can't use that excuse.
2005-09-09 14:59:18
208.   Jon Weisman
206 - Let's split the difference and call it next September.

Strike that. Reverse it.

2005-09-09 14:59:26
209.   Eric Enders
BTW, an audio interview with Billingsley about the no-hitter is newly available at the page Jon linked to above. (The first link in that graf.)
2005-09-09 15:00:12
210.   molokai
I'll take Carrols opinion over Gurnick anyday of the week.
Normally he adds weeks to the over optimistic projections that teams give on injuries and he's right quite a bit so when he subtracts I pay attention.
2005-09-09 15:01:00
211.   molokai
I remember you peaked in math in 5th grade:)
2005-09-09 15:01:33
212.   Bob Timmermann
Kim Clijsters is making Icaros cry.

I like her consonant to vowel ratio in her last name.

2005-09-09 15:02:01
213.   Eric Enders
While I have no objection to the notion that Tommy Tanzer screwed over Harrington, there is much more to the story than that. Long after Tanzer was s-canned, the family continued to refuse to accept reasonable offers.

It was more the case of a domineering father, from what I understand. Which I suspect is the case with a lot of these guys. Mom and dad smell payday.

2005-09-09 15:03:19
214.   Jim Hitchcock
202 - Dang, bokonon...that narrows the field considerably.
2005-09-09 15:03:50
215.   sanchez101
By july, i think Chin-Lung Hu will be a better hitter, and quite possibly shortstop than Izturis. In fact that might've been true this year.
2005-09-09 15:05:26
216.   Eric Enders
From the link in 202

"At first glance, a datable population of 18 726 may not seem like such a low number, but consider this: assuming I were to go on a blind date with a new girl about my age every week, I would have to date for 3493 weeks before I found one of the 18 726. That's very nearly 67 years."

Now I don't feel so bad.

2005-09-09 15:07:42
217.   Eric Enders
215 is a prime example of Jon's point about people weakening their perfectly reasonable stance by supporting it with utterly ludicrous statements.

Chin-Lung Hu is a Class A baseball player. Frankly, that's all that needs be said.

2005-09-09 15:08:10
218.   Jon Weisman
212 - Kim Clijsters, meet Bill Mlkvy.
2005-09-09 15:08:22
219.   molokai
I've sent a question to Will Carrol to clarify his position. He always answers so hopefully he will explain why he thinks Izzy can return so soon.

213I guess it is not always a good thing to have parental involvement in your life's decision.

2005-09-09 15:10:14
220.   scareduck
206 - I think the problem with the differing reports come down to the answers to the question, "When can Izturis throw again?" The answer is a little hazy, for two reasons:

1) He is a shortstop, not a pitcher, so -- at least in theory -- his recovery should be a little shorter.

2) Other parts of Izturis' game -- such as batting or running the bases -- will obviously be unaffected or minimally affected by the surgery.

Tommy John surgery for position players is a little different than that for pitchers; Luis Gonzales of the Diamondbacks returned by spring training after an August 1, 2004 surgery, so Izturis could be playing pretty quickly.

2005-09-09 15:10:38
221.   Eric Enders
My favorite spelling bee word when I was a kid was "crwth."
2005-09-09 15:11:59
222.   molokai
Agreed. He came on very strong in the 2nd half but let us see what he can do in AA before making any comparisons. Players like him must take one rung at a time, were not talking about a star but a decent infielder who has a chance at being a major leaguer and that is all at this point.
2005-09-09 15:13:30
223.   Bob Timmermann

Can you use it in a sentence?

2005-09-09 15:14:33
224.   Eric Enders
Due to the musical ineptitude that runs in my family, I fear I will never be able to learn how to play the crwth.
2005-09-09 15:15:29
225.   Jim Hitchcock
221 - So I google `define crwth', and it says `ask Eric Enders'.
2005-09-09 15:15:34
226.   Icaros
223, 224 - A friend of mine knows how to spell crwth.
2005-09-09 15:17:17
227.   Icaros
My two former-Soviet maidens are going to need some serious cheering up this evening. They should fly out to the west coast and let me show them a good time.
2005-09-09 15:19:00
228.   molokai
I worked with someone who if you gave him two words could tell you the word in between in a dictionary. I found that an incredible talent but since I'm for the 1st time in my life surrounded by English major types on DT is this normal or an above the board talent?
2005-09-09 15:19:01
229.   Jim Hitchcock
So, a crwth is basically a guitar without the E and A strings...
2005-09-09 15:19:03
230.   King of the Hobos
220 Yet Gonzo's defense has been affected all year (not that he was a gold glover, but now he is terrible). Which arm is Izzy's surgery? If it's his throwing arm, I would not trust Carroll, and even Gurnick may be generous. I only say this because 90% of Izzy's value is in his defense

I've always liked one of the offramps on the 15, Zzyzx Road

2005-09-09 15:19:19
231.   dzzrtRatt
185 At a time I was struggling with a very religious person over an important matter, I sought guidance from a therapist who was also a Lutheran minister. "Some people can't deal with shades of gray," he said. "It has to be black or white. They want to be told what to do." Such people, he said, tend to be the ones who fill the church pews each Sunday.

I think that's the kind of kid Scott Boras targets for representation. No matter how much money $2.5 million sounds like, Boras can tell this kid he's being robbed blind, and the kid has no frame of reference to understand that this might be wrong.

2005-09-09 15:20:34
232.   Jim Hitchcock
228 - That's definetly savant territory.
2005-09-09 15:22:06
233.   Jim Hitchcock
230 - I've driven up Zzyxx Rd. Just one of those things I had to do. It ends a few mile in at a chain link fence.
2005-09-09 15:22:06
234.   Icaros
228 I have two English degrees and could never dream of possessing such a talent.

I'm sure Bob can do it, though.

2005-09-09 15:23:19
235.   molokai
I always wondered where it went. Thanks for the info.
2005-09-09 15:26:13
236.   Eric Enders
I used to literally read the dictionary looking for spelling words, but even I can't do that.

Boras seems to fare well with -- not sure how else to put it -- southern fundamentalist Christian types. I wonder if any conclusions can be drawn from that.

2005-09-09 15:26:27
237.   Icaros
233 Area 51?
2005-09-09 15:26:56
238.   King of the Hobos

Says its now a research facility for the California State University system

2005-09-09 15:28:42
239.   Jim Hitchcock
232 - Definitely, darn it.

237 - Well, I saw no guards :)

2005-09-09 15:33:12
240.   Icaros
239 I don't think you see the guards if you stumble upon the place. Your head just suddenly fills with bullets.
2005-09-09 15:35:27
241.   Jim Hitchcock
241 - And the last thought would be `hey, is that a cactus pointing a gun???'
2005-09-09 15:43:32
242.   King of the Hobos
Suns are using the same line up as yesterday. Eric Hull gets the start, he's going against a pither with a 1.76 ERA with Birmingham, Daniel Haigwood
2005-09-09 15:46:11
243.   joekings
238 - I thought of sharing that story with my wife, but now I'm going to save it for next time we drive by there so I can make it seem like it was something I knew all along.
2005-09-09 15:59:12
244.   Fallout
Luis Gonzales can only throw rainbows from the outfield to 2nd base. A SS has to be able to throw quickly from many different arm angles. His recovery could take some time.
2005-09-09 16:02:22
245.   scareduck
244 - yes, but he doesn't put as much stress on his arm as a pitcher does when making those throws.
2005-09-09 16:03:54
246.   Eric Enders
"Luis Gonzales can only throw rainbows from the outfield to 2nd base."

This was also true before his surgery, however.

2005-09-09 16:09:36
247.   Bob Timmermann
Weird how in their biggest series of the year, the Yankees have to start Aaron Small against the Red Sox tonight.

And Small is one of the better pitchers on the Yankees now.
When Shawn Chacon is your ace, I think you've got issues.

2005-09-09 16:12:19
248.   Eric Enders
Anybody else not able to get the Sunscast to work? (Neither radio nor TV.)
2005-09-09 16:15:16
249.   Bob Timmermann
Activated today from a lengthy rehab ....

Jeff Bagwell

The Marlins have signed Paul Quantrill for the stretch drive.

2005-09-09 16:16:47
250.   werthgagne31
236--"""southern fundamentalist Christian types""""""

i'm a southern fundamentalist christian type.

i'd like to hear more about your connection between boras and southern fundamentalist christian types.
please explain.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-09 16:20:39
251.   Eric Enders
It simply seems a disproportionate percentage of his clients are fundamentalist Christians from the South. (The Drew brothers being exhibit A.) That's all.

I could very well be imagining this. Just something I've noticed, or think I have.

2005-09-09 16:24:02
252.   King of the Hobos
248 Nope. I'm refreshing the boxscore at, no luck with either video or audio. Birmingham doesn't even have audio.

Hull lost the no hitter to the 3rd batter, but that was all the damage. He also managed a K in the 1st

2005-09-09 16:24:38
253.   werthgagne31
251--oh o.k. sorry.
is hochevar(maybe bad spelling) a fundamentalist christian?
if so i like him even more.
i know he's from tennessee.
2005-09-09 16:32:12
254.   dzzrtRatt
253 It could be that the southern fundamentalist Christian type makes for a better ballplayer, but it also (generally)bespeaks a relative lack of worldliness that an unscrupulous city slicker like Scott Boras can exploit. That was the connection.
2005-09-09 16:36:48
255.   werthgagne31
254-- true
2005-09-09 16:37:37
256.   Steve
Scott Boras is from Sacramento.
2005-09-09 16:39:01
257.   Eric Enders
Yes. And he attended the alma mater of Guillaume Yango and D.J. Houlton: Pacific.
2005-09-09 16:40:26
258.   Steve
Not exactly Ground Zero for unscrupulous city slickers.
2005-09-09 16:40:48
259.   natepurcell
hoch isnt from tennesse.

he is from colorado.

2005-09-09 16:44:35
260.   King of the Hobos
I'm still not getting the audio feed outside some commercials, but as best I can tell, this happened

Donavon and Abreu made outs. Weber walked, Laroche singled, Loney was hit, then Martin walked in a run. Then Guzman cleared the bases on a double. Ruggiano struck out

4-0 Suns after 1 inning

2005-09-09 16:46:21
261.   werthgagne31
259-- ooopppsss i assumed he was from tennessee.
anyways whats the big deal with hoch. is he old enough and developed enough that he can join the major league team right away or very soon, or is he gonna start at rookie level?

i really haven't followed this story.

2005-09-09 16:46:24
262.   natepurcell
go team prospect!
2005-09-09 16:46:28
263.   LAT
"crwth" is really an abbreviation for "crappy Werth."
2005-09-09 16:47:16
264.   ddger
Is tonight's game pretty much a must win game?
2005-09-09 16:48:23
265.   natepurcell
hoch will either start out next yr in high A or AA. and we will see from there.

most likely, starts next season in high A. dominates, gets called up to AA at the end of may, pitches well.

starts off 07 season in AAA is a midseason callup for a spotstart for an injury.

2005-09-09 16:48:54
266.   LAT
251 Wasn't the younger Weaver represented by him. Weaver and Christian rarely appear in the same sentence.
2005-09-09 16:49:22
267.   ddger
Is it possible that Billingsley might get a start for the dodgers this season?
2005-09-09 16:49:23
268.   Bob Timmermann
Can a 22-year old play in Rookie ball? I would think he would start in A ball. Jered Weaver started in A and then was quickly promoted.
2005-09-09 16:49:58
269.   Jim Hitchcock
Not exactly Ground Zero for unscrupulous city slickers.

Judging by the amount of politicians (and lawyers-sorry, LAT :)), a lot of them migrate there.

2005-09-09 16:50:03
270.   sanchez101
Hochever is at least as polished as Justin Orenduff, who pitched well this year in high-A and double A. I would expect Hochevar to follow that path next year should he sign.
2005-09-09 16:52:09
271.   dzzrtRatt
264 Yes. taking 2/3 leaves us too far behind to even think about catching the Padres, in my opinion. We're already in Miracle Comeback territory as it is. I'm sure a smart guy like Bob can tell us how many times a team has been 6 1/2 games behind with 23 left to play and won their division.

Only one more day off (9/19) til the end of the season, by the way.

2005-09-09 16:52:31
272.   King of the Hobos
268 In the Pioneer league, yes, as it's designed for college players

267 I doubt it, we don't need him on the 40 man roster yet

2005-09-09 16:53:08
273.   ddger
How does Jered Weaver compare with Hochevar?
2005-09-09 16:53:34
274.   King of the Hobos
271 Unfortunately, with the Padres win last night, we're 7 back
2005-09-09 16:54:07
275.   LAT
That's ok Jim, unscrupulous, politician and lawyer all mean the same thing.
2005-09-09 16:56:01
276.   Bob Timmermann
I would say that unless Gene Mauch rises from the grave and starts managing the Padres, they will hoist the NL West championship gonfalon in San Diego. On 9/9/64, the Phillies led the Cardinals by 5 games.

Or Rene Lachemann. After play on 9/9/95, the Angels led the Mariners by 6 games.

2005-09-09 16:56:09
277.   Jon Weisman
260 - Is Guzman normally the No. 7 hitter?
2005-09-09 16:57:05
278.   King of the Hobos
277 Yes
2005-09-09 16:57:05
279.   Jon Weisman
A Very Special Game Thread is now open.
2005-09-09 16:59:12
280.   Jon Weisman
278 - is that a comment by Jacksonville that he is not as good a hitter as Loney, Weber or Abreu? I would have thought Guzman would fit somewhere in the 2-5 range.
2005-09-09 17:02:07
281.   King of the Hobos just went from 1 out in the top of the 2nd to the middle of the 3rd, I really would like a feed of some sort...

In the 2nd, Hull gave up a 1 out single. He then threw 2 WPs. A ground out scored the run

Garcia, Donavon, and Abreu went 1-2-3, as did Birmingham in the 3rd. Hull is pitching fine, seems he's his own worst enemy with the WPs

Also, Laroche's single was to the pitcher, no idea if it was a comebacker, bunt single, swinging bunt, etc

2005-09-09 18:12:09
282.   Uncle Miltie
I've been watching Edgar Renteria for the past month. The guy is a horrible defender. He can't turn the double play, often juggles balls, and tries to make impossible plays. The guy has been in the league for a long time and still isn't fundamentally sound. What a horrible contract Boston gave him and he is blocking Hanley Ramirez.
2005-09-09 21:21:40
283.   Uncle Miltie
I remember watching Osoria pitch at Jacksonville (he was their closer). I like what I saw 90-93 MPH with a lot of movement. He has excellent control and has a track record of not giving up home runs. He reminds me of Paul Quantrill.
2005-09-10 12:34:51
284.   Tommy Naccarato
Sorry for getting into this so late, but I saw Koufax pitch. I was like 7 years old.

My memories of the event were not so much about the speed--they all looked hard & fast!) but more about that wind-up and the way his entire body came through the throw. He seems to me to be the pitcher I remember the most of being a left hander!

The game I went to they won, and I can't even remember who it was against, but it was a night game. All's I remember was that wind-up and pitch and that Sandy Koufax was my favorite ball player!

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.