Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Not-So-Random High School Football Game Callback
2005-09-09 16:12
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

Our very own Bob Timmermann is scheduled to be interviewed on Fred Roggin's High School Sports show tonight on 1540, between 10:35-10:40 p.m. Timmermann will be recounting in tremendous depth the St. Francis-Arcadia game, with no thanks to the New York Times, or Retrosheet.

In his honor, please enjoy a special showcase for tonight's Random Dodger Game Callback.

By Bob Timmermann

September 9, 1921

Giants starter Fred Toney gave up nine hits and struck out none, but he still went the distance to give New York a 6-2 win over their rivals, the Dodgers, before a crowd of over 18,000 at the Polo Grounds. The loss dropped the defending NL champions Dodgers to 69-65 and they were 12 ½ games behind second place New York. The Pirates (.60606) had a slightly higher winning percentage than the Giants (.60583), but the Giants were actually a half game ahead because they had played five more games than the Pirates.

Brooklyn manager Wilber Robinson started Leon Cadore, but he did not last long. He gave up a leadoff single to center fielder George Burns. Shortstop Dave Bancroft followed with another single and when right fielder Mike Griffith's relay throw to the infield went astray, Burns scored and Bancroft went all the way to third. Robinson decided that this wasn't Cadore's day so he brought in left-hander Dutch Ruether to relieve, who gave up another run and the Giants led 2-0 after one inning.

The Dodgers got a run back in the second. Zack Wheat reached first on an error by second baseman Johnny Rawlings. Hi Myers followed with an infield single to second. A ground out advanced the runners and Wheat came home when Giants second baseman Frankie Frisch threw wildly on a Pete Kilduff grounder. Frisch made an error on the next play to load the bases, but Ruether grounded into a double play to end the threat.

The Giants scored in the fifth when Toney led off with a walk and scored on a triple by Burns. The Dodgers got the run back in the sixth when Wheat got a double, went to third on a ground out and scored on a fly ball by first baseman Ray Schmandt.

New York put the game away in the seventh. Ruether had walked two batters, but was almost out of the inning facing George Kelly with two outs. But Kelly singled in a run to make it 4-2. Kelly then stole second on a delayed steal. Ruether, unnerved by the play, threw a wild pitch to score Ross Youngs from second. Irish Meusel singled home Kelly to make it 6-2.

Brooklyn would finish the year in fifth place with a 77-75 record, 16 ½ games behind the first place Giants, who would edge out the Pirates by four games.

Wheat led Brooklyn's offense that year, as he did during most of his career. He batted .320 with 14 home runs. Third baseman Jimmy Johnston batted .325 and stole 28 bases.

Burleigh Grimes led the NL in wins with 22 and had a 2.83 ERA, but the pitching staff was in transition. Veteran Jeff Pfeffer was traded to St. Louis in midseason for Ferdie Schupp. Neither player did much for either team. The team ERA was 3.70, fifth best in the league.

Thanks to the New York Times, and Retrosheet.

Comments (374)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-09 17:01:37
1.   LAT
Bob, you are on a roll! Last week the LA Times, this week Roggin. You are going to need an agent soon. The celeb list here at DT keeps growing.
2005-09-09 17:05:02
2.   LAT
Going to the game tonight. My third game this week. The first two were both 9th inning winners. Hope to keep the streak alive.
2005-09-09 17:06:41
3.   King of the Hobos
I'll continue the Jacksonville updates over here...

Weber, Laroche, and Loney went 1-2-3 in the 3rd, both Loney and Laroche struck out

2005-09-09 17:09:49
4.   Jon Weisman
3 - Give us the score for those just tuning in :)
2005-09-09 17:10:08
5.   ddger
Some of us have privilege of sitting with Bob (or he will deign to sit with us?) for tomorrow's game. Is SCSR next?
2005-09-09 17:11:05
6.   King of the Hobos
4 I meant to do that...

4-1 Suns after 3.5, Hull pitched a perfect top of the 4th

2005-09-09 17:11:15
7.   Bob Timmermann
I really am not all that interested in becoming involved with Derek Lowe.
2005-09-09 17:11:36
8.   Jon Weisman
I don't see any reason why Bob shouldn't plug Dodger Thoughts during the interview, do you?
2005-09-09 17:12:06
9.   Eric Enders
You beat me to it, I was about to make the same joke.

BTW, the Odgen Raptors playoff opener can be heard on in about 45 minutes, at 6:00 PT.

2005-09-09 17:13:34
10.   Bob Timmermann
However, like Lindsay Davenport, Derek Lowe is very tall and very wealthy.
2005-09-09 17:18:11
11.   ddger
Bob, do you also track movies? :)

2005-09-09 17:18:50
12.   Eric Enders
Those planning on listening to the Raptors game might find MiLB's series preview worth reading.

"Brent Leach (5-3, 2.43) will get the start in the opener. He led the league in ERA and was the only starter to post a sub-3.00 ERA. He also finished third on the circuit with 77 strikeouts. As a team, Ogden finished second in the league in the league in strikeouts to Missoula (661-672). The Raptors were undecided Thursday evening as to who would start Games 2 and 3, but if they stay on rotation Jonathan Meloan (0-2, 3.16 in 16 games, six starts) would be in line to start Saturday. He's 0-2 as a starter with a 4.13 ERA. He's also given up three homers and seven walks in his last two starts. Ramon Troncoso finished tied for third in the league with 13 saves."

more at link

2005-09-09 17:19:00
13.   Bob Timmermann
So long folks, I'll probably be back before the Dodgers game is over since the football game starts at 7 and rarely take more than 2 1/2 hours to play.

To be accurate, I'm not being interviewed, I'm giving a report, which will probably greatly resemble the three paragraphs that will appear in Saturday's Daily News.

2005-09-09 17:19:17
14.   popup
Thanks Bob and thanks Jon for the spotlight on what has been a very enjoyable feature on this site for me. There were a series of books published about ten years ago or so called This Date in (insert name of team) History. I have seen the Oriole and St. Louis Cardinal books in that series and I can tell you they are not as good as what Bob has been writing here. If I was a publisher I would be contacting Bob about putting what he has written on this site into book form.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-09 17:21:06
15.   King of the Hobos
Haigwood has been perfect since the first. 4-1 Suns after 4
2005-09-09 17:26:01
16.   dzzrtRatt
Watching the Angel/White Sox game...when did the White Sox start wearing green hats and green uniform numbers?

Maybe I'm just behind the curve because the Chisox are so rarely on TV, but I thought their colors were black and white. Although I know they stopped wearing the Viet Cong uniforms a few years back.

2005-09-09 17:31:04
17.   King of the Hobos
16 That's not normal. Probably something like the Dodgers wearing Brooklyn uniforms or the Padres wearing camo uniforms
2005-09-09 17:34:01
18.   King of the Hobos
5th was uneventful, Hull hit a better and struck one out, Haigwood, struck out 2 (Abreu and Garcia), nothing else happened. 4-1 after 5
2005-09-09 17:34:06
19.   sanchez101
whats with the red cross on the Chi Sox helmet?
2005-09-09 17:35:11
20.   King of the Hobos
18 He may have hit a better, I honestly don't know, but Hull did hit a batter
2005-09-09 17:35:45
21.   King of the Hobos
19 It's on all the helmets. League wide Katrina awareness or something
2005-09-09 17:36:49
22.   sanchez101
does winning the first 2 games of a three game series count as a sweep?
2005-09-09 17:40:36
23.   King of the Hobos
22 Is the plan to lose Park v Penny?
2005-09-09 17:43:33
24.   Im So Blue
16 From the Press Notes,

Pionta Guinness, Le Do Thoil — Tonight, the White Sox will host the second annual "Half Way to St. Patrick's Day," a celebration of Chicago's Irish heritage … entertainment will include bands, dancers and music throughout the ballpark … during the game, the Sox will wear green pinstriped uniforms, hats and helmets … plans to auction the uniforms for charity will be announced in the future … the E Team, Entertainers of the Sky, will perform a postgame jump wearing lighted green suits.

2005-09-09 17:44:44
25.   King of the Hobos
Hull allowed a double, 2 singles, and a HBP, but allowed only 1 run. 4-2 Suns after 5.5
2005-09-09 17:48:03
26.   sanchez101
23. Im sorry, i ment a 3 game playoff series like they have in the minors. On that note thought, is this the first time the dodgers come up against Park.
2005-09-09 18:00:08
27.   Marty
Arcadia was the hated arch-rival of my high school, Monrovia when I was in school. We used to try to paint something on their campus green, while they tried to paint something on ours red and gold. Now, they do not even play each other.
2005-09-09 18:02:10
28.   Eric Enders
Raptors game starting now. Link:
2005-09-09 18:02:41
29.   King of the Hobos
The FA pool has become a player smaller, as Matt Stairs and the Royals have agreed on a 1 yr contract. He has that nice .833 OPS, but this isn't exactly a huge blow to the offseason plans...

In the bottom of the 7th, Loney singled, and both Martin and Guzman walked, but Ruggiano struck to end the inning with no runs. 4-2 Suns after 6

2005-09-09 18:02:44
30.   molokai
18 Pete Rose is playing?
2005-09-09 18:03:13
31.   molokai
Will we see Miller to close it out?
2005-09-09 18:06:07
32.   King of the Hobos
31 Dunno.

Luis Gonzalez had a perfect 7th

2005-09-09 18:08:14
33.   Eric Enders
One good reason to beat the living tar out of Birmingham: Their stadium is located at 100 Ben Chapman Drive.
2005-09-09 18:11:47
34.   natepurcell
guzmans walked 3x in the last twom playoff games.

do playoff games stats get ended on for the season in the minors? i wish they do.

2005-09-09 18:12:25
35.   King of the Hobos
Juan Apodaca's name is pronounced op-a-dock-a, I didn't knw that, I would have pronounced it like the Rockies pitching coach

Godwin CF
Soto 2B
Sutherland 1B
Mitchell 3B
Richmond RF
Apodaca C
Mooneyham DH
Locke LF
Rivera SS

Godwin and Soto both K'd, Sutherland grounded out

2005-09-09 18:14:56
36.   Marty
There was an Apodaca family in my neighborhood and that's how they pronounced it. How does the Rockies coach pronounce it?
2005-09-09 18:15:31
37.   Eric Enders
no -- Last night's box has Billingsley's record as 1-0.
2005-09-09 18:16:30
38.   Eric Enders
The Rockies coach pronounces it the same way the Ogden announcer pronounces our catcher's name.

There's only one pronunciation, AFAIK.

2005-09-09 18:17:16
39.   King of the Hobos
Suns managed another walk, this time by Abreu, but nothing else. 4-2 after 7

First man reached for the Owlz (I hate that z), but Apodaca threw out the runner stealing 2nd on a perfect throw. Then a groundout to Mitchell, the announcer described the out pitch as a "Zito-like curveball." I wish Leach were younger, hopefully he proves to be a prospect and moves up the system faster

2005-09-09 18:18:31
40.   Eric Enders
Leach makes it through the first, allowing only a single that was erased on a CS.
2005-09-09 18:18:39
41.   King of the Hobos
I swear Vin called Bob ap-a-dack-a, but I guess I'm wrong
2005-09-09 18:21:34
42.   Eric Enders
My little brother played against Leach's team in college, but Leach was out with arm surgery that year, so he didn't get to face him.

He led the Pioneer League in ERA by a mile, which I'm guessing means he's a good prospect.

2005-09-09 18:21:57
43.   Eric Enders
41 - that's simply a case of Vinny mispronouncing.
2005-09-09 18:26:28
44.   King of the Hobos
42 He's old, he was a college senior, turns 23 in November. A 22 yr old in Rookie ball isn't very impressive, even with that ERA. He was never this good for Delta State U, so I'm a little pessimistic on his prospect status

1-2-3 inning for the Raptors.

Leach has an out in the 2nd

2005-09-09 18:29:33
45.   sanchez101
Leach is one of the few guys who actually pitched well in the Pioneer league coming right out of the draft. That short list includes Greg Miller, Johnathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, and Steve Schmoll.
2005-09-09 18:30:32
46.   Eric Enders
Pitching in Ogden is kinda like pitching in Vegas, so my take is that a 2.43 ERA is pretty impressive no matter how old you are.
2005-09-09 18:31:31
47.   King of the Hobos
Leach with a 1-2-3 inning.

Gonzalez in for the 8th still, walked a batter and got 2 outs. Miller came in, gave up a double and an out, no runs

4-2 Suns after 7.5, one inning left for the Barons

Rain in Ogden, there's been a thunderstorm during the whole game

2005-09-09 18:34:40
48.   King of the Hobos
As for the Dodgers:

Werth CF
Robles SS
Kent 2B
Saenz 3B
Cruz RF
Phillips 1B
Navarro C
Edwards LF
Houlton P

2005-09-09 18:36:07
49.   King of the Hobos
And the Padres:

Roberts CF
Johnson LF
Loretta 2B
Giles RF
Randa 3B
Nady 1B
Hernandez C
Alexander SS (this is Manny if you're curious)
Williams P

2005-09-09 18:36:20
50.   Eric Enders
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-09 18:40:54
51.   King of the Hobos
The winningest manager in minor league history manages in the Pioneer League? Did I hear that right?
2005-09-09 18:41:06
52.   Icaros
50 I second that barf.
2005-09-09 18:41:23
53.   King of the Hobos
Leach walks a batter, but Ks one and gets out of the inning easily enough
2005-09-09 18:44:10
54.   Icaros
If Ledee is injured, I guess I can handle Edwards out there. He's less of a sure out lately than Valentin or Repko, despite his immobility.

I like Saenz at third okay. I really just don't like 1B. What else is new?

2005-09-09 18:48:19
55.   King of the Hobos
Sutherland and Mitchell both singled with 2 outs, but Richmond grounded into a force
2005-09-09 18:50:35
56.   King of the Hobos
New pitcher for the Barons, Laroche walks, new pitcher, Loney is hit again, Martin makes out, new pitcher, Guzman GIDPs
2005-09-09 18:58:31
57.   King of the Hobos
Broxton gives up a hit, but saves it nonetheless. Suns win, lead series 2-0

Leach strikes out 2, walks 1 for another scoreless inning. He's really amazing the way he pitches in the Pioneer League

2005-09-09 19:01:12
58.   King of the Hobos
The Barons must be managed by a disciple of Alou. They used 4 pitchers for 4 outs, and 6 pitchers overall
2005-09-09 19:14:18
59.   King of the Hobos
The Owlz have scored on a walk-bunt-single. Leach had a K in the inning, but couldn't get the 9 man. Only the 2nd hit of the game for the Owlz. Leach has a pettitte-like pickoff, the guy who walked was almost out on a 3 foot lead, and Leach picked off the single. A Pettitte-like pickoff + Zito-like curve = good lefty pitcher...
2005-09-09 19:16:26
60.   Kayaker7
54 Yeah, Saenz at third is okay once in a while, but he is starting show wear again. This could be a rough night for Saenz again. With his average below .240, I guess Phillips is due for a reversion to the mean, which is about .245.
2005-09-09 19:22:46
61.   King of the Hobos
The Raptors did exactly what the Owlz did. Rivera walked, Godwin bunted, and Soto K'd (exact same order as the Owlz). However, a WP and a throw into left field scored Rivera, not a single
2005-09-09 19:26:21
62.   sanchez101
I remember reading an article were Leach said that since this year he has "really fell in love with his change-up", but i hadnt heard anything about a curve. I guess you pretty much have to have to solid secondary pitches if you're going to succeed with an 88 mph fastball. He does seem like a future LOOGY though.
2005-09-09 19:26:30
63.   sanchez101
I remember reading an article were Leach said that since this year he has "really fell in love with his change-up", but i hadnt heard anything about a curve. I guess you pretty much have to have to solid secondary pitches if you're going to succeed with an 88 mph fastball. He does seem like a future LOOGY though.
2005-09-09 19:33:12
64.   Eric Enders
Leach sure has an impressive K rate for a guy who doesn't even hit 90. 10.4 K's per 9 innings.
2005-09-09 19:38:12
65.   King of the Hobos
Leach has 8 Ks in 6 IP tonight, but he also has 4 walks
2005-09-09 19:41:16
66.   King of the Hobos
Leach is out of the game, being replaced by Horlacher. He went to BYU, and is a year older than Leach, thanks to a mission to Colombia
2005-09-09 19:42:51
67.   Eric Enders
Leach is done for the night, pitched a fine game: 6 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 8 K.

Here's an article that talks about how Bob Welch has been helping Leach:

"I'm not a flame-thrower," said Leach. ... "I don't heat it up by any means. I just try to keep them off-balance and keep them guessing."

2005-09-09 19:46:42
68.   molokai
Got a reply from Will Carrol on his assesment that Issy will be back by ST.

Game ready. Gonzalez came back in six months to the OF, Womack in four

On Sep 9, 2005, at 4:59 PM, Molokai wrote:

> BP Username: molokai (Premium subscriber)
> IP:
> Publish: yes_initials
> Your return for Izzy by ST seems very optimistic given that in LA
> we are hearing 10 months. Normally I use your numbers as a
> guideline but that is a huge variance. Did you mean he will be
> ready to throw by ST or will he be game ready? TIA

2005-09-09 19:47:24
69.   Eric Enders
It's only rookie ball, but Orlacher was kinda the Gagne of the Pioneer League:

16 IP, 10 H, 25 K, 1.69 ERA

Except without all the saves... he isn't the closer, for some reason.

2005-09-09 19:47:40
70.   King of the Hobos
Looks like Houlton is back to his 1st inning troubles
2005-09-09 19:49:12
71.   Eric Enders
66 - BA says it was Chile

"Six foot-5 RHP Dave Horlacher, BYU's most effective pitcher, also is an older player as he interrupted his career to go on a mission to Chile. He returned in time to become a key member of Dixie State's 2004 championship team before transferring to BYU. He has an outstanding 12-to-6 curveball but hasn't shown the velocity scouts were expecting. His fastball topped out at 91 mph, but generally was only 88-90."

2005-09-09 19:52:18
72.   King of the Hobos
71 BA knows better than I. It's Chile, I just got it confused with another "C" South American nation
2005-09-09 19:53:59
73.   King of the Hobos
Horlacher didn't do too well, a double and 2 walks, only one out. James McDonald in, he's only pitchedfor Ogden for a week or two (he was an unsuccessful hitter)
2005-09-09 19:56:11
74.   King of the Hobos
Houlton got out of that thankfully, hopefully it wa just his 1st inning problems again
2005-09-09 19:56:56
75.   King of the Hobos
McDonald walks in a run, things are not looking up for the Raptors
2005-09-09 19:56:58
76.   DaveP
72- Horlacher put up pretty solid stats at BYU last year considering they play at altitude and their field is an absolute launching pad. I once watched a double header where the BYU catcher launched 5 HRs on the day.

Horlacher last year at BYU: 6-2 with 3.80 ERA in 15 starts. 94.2 innings w/ 82 Ks.

2005-09-09 19:59:22
77.   confucius
Does anyone remember a few years ago when the Padres were bragging that Nady was going to be a Hall of Famer?
2005-09-09 19:59:41
78.   King of the Hobos
Strike out and a pop out, McDonald got out of it, but the Raptors are down 2-1 with only 2 innings left
2005-09-09 20:03:08
79.   Eric Enders
McDonald batted .229/.289/.312 this year and gave up 1 ER in only 6 IP as a pitcher.
2005-09-09 20:06:51
80.   King of the Hobos
Raptors have 1 inning left, Soto, Sutherland, and Mitchell due up. Just about everyone outside Rivera (who weighs 148 lbs) has some power, but Mitchell and Locke have the best, yet Locke is always buried in the line up.
2005-09-09 20:09:24
81.   oldbear
Houlton cant locate his curve tonite. He's behind every hitter.
2005-09-09 20:12:56
82.   Eric Enders
I wonder what type of audience there is for minor league baseball on the radio. In the last few days on Suns and Raptors games I've heard commercials for:

- A DUI attorney
- An adult toy store
- A 1-800 number you can call to restore your civil rights if you're a convicted felon.

2005-09-09 20:15:08
83.   oldbear
Houlton's got nothing tonite. He's relying on pure luck.

3 bb's, 1 HBP, and zero K's.

2005-09-09 20:16:32
84.   DaveP
Houlton won't even get to the 5th at this rate. Who is going long relief tonight?
2005-09-09 20:19:34
85.   King of the Hobos
Soto K'd, Sutherland grounded out, and Mitchell K'd, Raptors lost. So concludes the first ever Raptors Thoughts

Houlton does not look good, bad game for him to do this

2005-09-09 20:19:41
86.   Jim Hitchcock
Drunks, perverts, and felons. There's a country song in there somewhere :)
2005-09-09 20:19:59
87.   oldbear
This is the worst I've seen Houlton looked. He's got absolutely NOTHING tonite.

Padres have had 4 walks, 1 HBP. And I've only noticed 1 swinging strike out of 50 or so pitches from Houlton.

2005-09-09 20:20:51
88.   King of the Hobos
Houlton is getting the groundball when he needs to, but this is going to get old fast
2005-09-09 20:21:36
89.   King of the Hobos
82 Don't forget a bail bonds company located in the middle of Mormon country
2005-09-09 20:25:21
90.   King of the Hobos
Even if that was a ball, Phillips' 6-3 would have just become a 6-4-3
2005-09-09 20:25:23
91.   oldbear
That was a bs call on Jose Cruz Jr.
2005-09-09 20:25:26
92.   Jim Hitchcock
89 - No doubt that guy also has the Maytag repair franchise.
2005-09-09 20:26:45
93.   oldbear
How long will Tracy stick with Phillips at 1st base?
2005-09-09 20:27:29
94.   DaveP
93 - when does the season end? I'd say that's your answer.
2005-09-09 20:30:37
95.   oldbear
Edwards/Phillips are eyesores right now in the lineup.

I'd almost rather have Valentin hitting 8th bec there's at least a chance he might reach base on a walk.

2005-09-09 20:30:51
96.   King of the Hobos
93 If he doesn't go under the Mendoza line, then {94 is correct. If he goes under, he'll play every other day like Valentin. In fact, he'd probably platoon with Valentin, with Edwards switching positions (LF/3B and 1B) to accomadate the platoon
2005-09-09 20:31:28
97.   Jon Weisman
Hi - there's every possibility that Houlton will find himself starting now - but I wouldn't wait more than two baserunners before pulling him. This is as close to a playoff series as the Dodgers may get this year.

Osoria warmed up in the pen in the second.

2005-09-09 20:31:54
98.   Kayaker7
Oh, when will this season end?
2005-09-09 20:32:18
99.   King of the Hobos
Giles swings at the first pitch? That doesn't seem like him, especially with Houlton's control
2005-09-09 20:34:30
100.   King of the Hobos
Buerhle gave up 5 runs on 10 hits, with only 2 Ks. I guess the Angels have lights in the OF as well
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-09 20:35:35
101.   King of the Hobos
Good, the good Houlton is back. I've always liked the good Houlton. Now we need to hope the bad Willaims keeps pitching, and we take advantage of his control
2005-09-09 20:37:05
102.   Kayaker7
Going to the 12th inning in the Angels game.
2005-09-09 20:37:50
103.   oldbear
Stupid SmartBall fails the White Sox yet again.
2005-09-09 20:37:54
104.   King of the Hobos
Clemens really must hate the Brewers. The most runs he's given up in a game is 4, yet has given up 5 runs to the Brewers TWICE!
2005-09-09 20:38:49
105.   King of the Hobos
Smartball v Smallball...that's going to be a long game, whenever they run out of pitchers
2005-09-09 20:39:42
106.   oldbear
Is their any reason why gameday freezes? When it freezes for one person, does it freeze for everyone?
2005-09-09 20:40:18
107.   King of the Hobos
Looks like the Angels changed their tactics from smallball to Vladball

Not deep enough Werth, just a little more next time...

2005-09-09 20:40:57
108.   oldbear
I'm suprised you run on Juan Rivera when he's playing LF. Especially with an average base runner like Aaron Rowand.
2005-09-09 20:42:13
109.   Xeifrank
Unbelievable top of the 12th in the Angels game. Vlad leads off with a deep drive and goes into his home run trot then nearly gets thrown out at 2nd base. Molina sac bunts and Guerrero runs through a stop sign at third and scores only because of a poor throw home and a great slide. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 20:43:00
110.   Kayaker7
109 See? Smallball works!! ;-)
2005-09-09 20:45:41
111.   King of the Hobos
110 Smallball never would have worked without Vladball
2005-09-09 20:47:59
112.   Xeifrank
DePodesta must be fired!!! Well, that's the article in my local sports page today. Anyways, here is the link to the story. Funny that the guy says calling for someone to be fired is a serious thing and only should be done by someone as informed as he is, then he makes a very poor argument for the firing of DePodesta. His strongest argument is that DePodesta didn't get players with good character, signed an injury prone Drew, and didn't have a backup plan for all the injuries. He goes on to mention such great clubhouse and character type of guys as LoDuca, Green and even Lima. I guess he doesn't know Lima's off field background. vr, Xei

2005-09-09 20:48:09
113.   King of the Hobos
Saenz really needs to stop that. Pitchers have discovered he swings at sliders/breaking balls away
2005-09-09 20:48:10
114.   King of the Hobos
Saenz really needs to stop that. Pitchers have discovered he swings at sliders/breaking balls away
2005-09-09 20:48:16
115.   oldbear
I hate seeing Old Maid against RHP.
2005-09-09 20:48:43
116.   King of the Hobos
Williams has made more pitches than Houlton, 64 to 60
2005-09-09 20:50:18
117.   King of the Hobos
AFLAC: Hofffman and...Klesko?
2005-09-09 20:50:35
118.   oldbear
115. Follow up. Olmedo Saenz with a .602 OPS in September. He's hitting .211.

Its another reason to play Choi.

2005-09-09 20:53:34
119.   King of the Hobos
He finally breaks down...we didn't need to go behind early, especially with Williams no hitting us
2005-09-09 20:54:38
120.   oldbear
Houlton quit giving up home runs please.
2005-09-09 20:57:02
121.   bokonon42
117- Carlos Hernandez. I cheated, so I know it's right.
2005-09-09 20:58:27
122.   Uncle Miltie
120- I hate when our pitchers give up homeruns, but that isn't something that they can always control. They can, however, control how many guys they walk.
2005-09-09 20:58:38
123.   dzzrtRatt
117 or how about Hoffman and Woody Williams? I think Klesko was in Atlanta then.
2005-09-09 21:00:13
124.   dzzrtRatt
fortunate considering all those walks, the homer would come with the bases empty.

He's not pitching too good tonight though.

2005-09-09 21:01:31
125.   King of the Hobos
Things are not looking good for the Dodgers season. 2 runs in 6 innings, and an utterly useless bottom of the line up. At least Houlton's spot has become Perez/Choi/Ledee/Grabowski (the last one is Tracy's idea, not mine)
2005-09-09 21:02:10
126.   Uncle Miltie
ok, that's enough of DJ. Take him out before the game gets out of reach.
2005-09-09 21:03:03
127.   bokonon42
Oops, I'm an idiot. Wrong Hernandez. Man, I can't even cheat right.
2005-09-09 21:03:12
128.   King of the Hobos
123 That makes sense, I couldn't remember where Klesko was in his early days and forgot about Williams (despite the fact he's pitching)

Can we score 3 runs?

2005-09-09 21:03:20
129.   oldbear
Tracy you idiot. Thanks for living him in 3 batters too long yet again.
2005-09-09 21:04:14
130.   oldbear
Why would you let him pitch to Johnson, let alone Loretta?
2005-09-09 21:06:36
131.   King of the Hobos
We're going to need to call up Hanrahan, whether we're in the race or not. Too many innings, only 1 off day left, and I don't to DFA anyone to bring up Mahomes/Neu/Carlyle, who would likely be no better than Hanrahan. Unless we're DFAing Edwards...
2005-09-09 21:06:48
132.   Kayaker7
Osoria's last four pitches have resulted in four outs.
2005-09-09 21:08:26
133.   King of the Hobos
132 He's got his sinker working. When he has that thing going, you need to find a hole in the infield to get a hit. Just look at his ERA with Vegas
2005-09-09 21:09:39
134.   King of the Hobos
Mark Sweeney, I would never have got that without cheating
2005-09-09 21:11:12
135.   Kayaker7
Man, Woody's arm angles have the Dodgers befuddled tonight. ;-)
2005-09-09 21:17:32
136.   DaveP
If Navarro ends up with a batting avg of around .250 this year (with no power) is he still considered the front runner for starting catcher next year?
2005-09-09 21:18:36
137.   ddger
Houlton's last 3 starts were awful. Is pressure getting to him?

Is our offense going to wake up and start hitting or we'll be finished tonight.

I doubt if Kent will get anything to hit anymore unless the guy behind him can start hitting.

2005-09-09 21:18:43
138.   King of the Hobos
As far as getting their players out of the game, Manny Alexander is the one you want to keep in the game...
2005-09-09 21:20:08
139.   ddger
We're being no-hit. There I said it so it will break the jinx.
2005-09-09 21:21:11
140.   oldbear
137. Tonite was awful. His last 2 starts were in Denver and wrigley field. So I dont count much against those.

136. If Navarro keeps his OBP around .375, I'd say he's a lock to be the starting catcher next fall.

Jason Phillips BA is now .238

2005-09-09 21:21:36
141.   King of the Hobos
Hairston just broke up Cain's one hitter in the 9th. The first hit was a Derrek Lee homer, who is now at the plate. Giants up 2-1 in the 9th
2005-09-09 21:22:58
142.   Uncle Miltie
I remember watching Osoria pitch at Jacksonville (he was their closer). I like what I saw 90-93 MPH with a lot of movement. He has excellent control and has a track record of not giving up home runs. He reminds me of Paul Quantrill.
2005-09-09 21:22:58
143.   King of the Hobos
After Hairston singled, Neifi, Lee, and Burnitz went down on 3 pitches...
2005-09-09 21:23:26
144.   Nagman
San Diego announcers must not believe in jinxing, the play by play guy has repeatedly said Williams has not allowed a hit.
2005-09-09 21:24:55
145.   King of the Hobos
139 That only works when it's our team, it reenforces the no hitter if it's the opposing team

Myrow could use his first big league hit

2005-09-09 21:25:03
146.   Uncle Miltie
144- it's too early to talk about a no hitter and Woody Williams has thrown a ton of pitches. He'd have to throw 130+ to pitch a complete game.
2005-09-09 21:27:15
147.   King of the Hobos
146 At this rate, it would take closer to 180 pitches. I would have preferred Myrow get the hit...
2005-09-09 21:27:54
148.   Kayaker7
Is Myrow our best option at pinch hitting now?
2005-09-09 21:29:54
149.   Kayaker7
Why is Werth a permanent fixture in the lineup?
2005-09-09 21:30:25
150.   oldbear
Woody Williams with a no-hitter through 5ip.

This is sad.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-09 21:31:15
151.   Uncle Miltie
149- just until the end of the year. Next year he should be a backup or maybe traded, though how much value does a .730 OPS corner outfielder have?
2005-09-09 21:36:05
152.   King of the Hobos
The pen's looking good and 3 runs is not very many. Unfortunately our offense has decided 3 hits are impossible, much less 3 runs
2005-09-09 21:36:34
153.   Jon Weisman
144 - game announcers are exempt from the jinx rule
2005-09-09 21:40:46
154.   King of the Hobos
There we go, at least Kent is still hitting
2005-09-09 21:41:05
155.   DaveP
140 - IF he puts up a .375 ops, he'd be ok (still sub .700 ops based on his .312 slugging so far this year). Any reason to think he'll put up .375? he's around .355 right now and only been at .375 or higher once in the minors (AA '03).

I don't think Navarro is ready to be much of an offensive contributor, but seems solid behind the plate. Ideally he'd have another year or two to get stronger and develop some power before counting on him much.

2005-09-09 21:41:16
156.   King of the Hobos
Saenz has already finished 2 innings, hopefully that doesn't mean a DP...
2005-09-09 21:41:17
157.   oldbear
The old vet breaks it up.. Now this game has virtually none of my interest to keep watching.
2005-09-09 21:41:56
158.   bokonon42
153- I've only ever heard the announcer-immunity addendum to the jinx rule on this forum. Is that widely accepted? Regional?
2005-09-09 21:42:32
159.   Uncle Miltie
That worked (which is unusual)
2005-09-09 21:43:11
160.   oldbear
I hope tonite's Olmedo Saenz last game at 1st base for a while. He looks completely out of gas. He's had some real bad at bats in September.
2005-09-09 21:43:34
161.   Uncle Miltie
157- something exciting might Aybar pinch hitting
2005-09-09 21:44:56
162.   Uncle Miltie
Good baserunning by Cruz not to gamble going to 2nd. That's something Repko might have done.
2005-09-09 21:45:03
163.   Icaros
155 So are you saying he's not good enough yet to move Russell Martin to 3B? (I agree).
2005-09-09 21:45:12
164.   King of the Hobos
That was lucky...

No one in scoring position, can Phillips come through against Saenez?

2005-09-09 21:45:22
165.   DaveP
Aybar pinch hitting and Kuo coming on in relief would be nice to see.
2005-09-09 21:45:43
166.   oldbear
2005-09-09 21:48:05
167.   Uncle Miltie
165- now you're getting greedy.
2005-09-09 21:48:30
168.   Icaros
165 Did those two walks by Kuo doom him already? Hard to believe Tracy wouldn't want a new LOOGY to cling to like Linus's blanket.
2005-09-09 21:48:43
169.   Uncle Miltie
Clutch hit by Phillips
2005-09-09 21:49:00
170.   bokonon42
There's never been a clutcher man than Jason Phillips. Never.
2005-09-09 21:49:12
171.   oldschool62
The Dodgers will win this game.
2005-09-09 21:49:16
172.   Kayaker7
Now, this is why Phillips is in the lineup.
2005-09-09 21:49:42
173.   Icaros
169 No, clutch hit by Tracy for playing Phillips.
2005-09-09 21:50:07
174.   Uncle Miltie
170- Mike Edwards, Jason Repko (clutch bunting, pinch running, and defense)
2005-09-09 21:52:51
175.   King of the Hobos
That sucked. It looked fairly good, and it wouldn't have taken too much more to get over the short wall. At least we have Edwards leading off...
2005-09-09 21:53:05
176.   oldbear
Navarro has hit too many warning track fly balls.
2005-09-09 21:54:22
177.   DaveP
163 - It would be completely ridiculous to move Martin to 3B, even if Navarro turned into the greatest thing since sliced bread. Martin would go from a very valuable catcher to a sub-par 3B.

165 - that's what I was wondering. How can a wild performance in Coors doom anyone? everyone stinks at Coors. let's see what the kid can do.

2005-09-09 21:54:57
178.   King of the Hobos
176 At 21, that means those will be 10 feet further in the future. One of the reasons i like him
2005-09-09 21:55:25
179.   oldbear
ANother inning of Carrara is really pushing your luck...
2005-09-09 21:56:31
180.   King of the Hobos
Giles does not look liek a player who leads the league in walks tonight. Swinging on the first pitch earlier and 3-1 just now, neither was very good
2005-09-09 22:00:15
181.   oldbear
177. Anybody who OBP's .380-.400 isnt subpar at any position.
2005-09-09 22:00:39
182.   King of the Hobos
I've never stared at Randa's face for a prolonged period of time like I just got to, he really does look like the Joker
2005-09-09 22:01:19
183.   Icaros
It would be completely ridiculous to move Martin to 3B, even if Navarro turned into the greatest thing since sliced bread. Martin would go from a very valuable catcher to a sub-par 3B.

I know, I know. I was just being a smartass.

2005-09-09 22:02:27
184.   King of the Hobos
Tracy was pushing his luck, he needs to get Carrara out of there...
2005-09-09 22:02:38
185.   Icaros
Why did Robles look like he was playing in on that?
2005-09-09 22:04:01
186.   Icaros
Is Tracy getting coffee right now? Does he realize that Gio is still in there?
2005-09-09 22:05:38
187.   Icaros
Looks like Hernandez got a blonde hair weave to go with his wrist surgery.
2005-09-09 22:06:32
188.   bokonon42
I've changed my mind, Gio is clearly clutcher than Phillips.
2005-09-09 22:06:45
189.   Icaros
Carrarra is pumped that he shut them down that inning.
2005-09-09 22:07:13
190.   King of the Hobos
Nice catch, Tracy got lucky there. 1 run per inning is all we need, although our chances are terrible with Edwards-Repko-Werth. I can't assume Tracy will PH someone good
2005-09-09 22:07:51
191.   oldbear
Wow that was lucky. I'd like to see Perez, Choi, and Werth this upcoming inning.
2005-09-09 22:08:00
192.   ddger
186 Got lucky there. Tracy better stay awake and manage this game as if it was our last.
2005-09-09 22:09:50
193.   ddger
Loss tonight could be the final nail in the coffin.

We've got our work cut out trying to comeback against SD bullpen.

2005-09-09 22:10:56
194.   Icaros
We've got our work cut out trying to comeback against SD bullpen.

What can I do to help from behind this PC?

2005-09-09 22:12:24
195.   ddger
194 Infect SD relief pitchers with virus.
2005-09-09 22:13:24
196.   Xeifrank
Choi has a long at bat, earth is round, Tracy sucks, grass is green, sky is blue, bill gates is rich, Bob is tall, news at 11.
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:14:00
197.   King of the Hobos
That was terrible, he needed to foul that off. I hate wasting Choi's 10 pitch ABs like that (and only once a game)
2005-09-09 22:14:08
198.   Uncle Miltie
Choi is faster than Edwards. Will Choi play on Korean night?
2005-09-09 22:14:17
199.   oldbear
Choi really needs to finish off those 3-x counts. That really wasnt a very good at bat.
2005-09-09 22:14:33
200.   Xeifrank
193. Actually a loss fri, sat or sunday night would be the nail in the coffin.
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-09 22:15:27
201.   Xeifrank
The good thing about playing the Padres is you don't have to worry about Vin updating the Padre score every 18 seconds. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:15:57
202.   Icaros
If Choi started he'd account for 40 pitches thrown a game all by himself. Too bad his manager can't see that even that's worth something.
2005-09-09 22:16:07
203.   ddger
200 Do you mean this weekend? Isn't tonight Friday?
2005-09-09 22:16:35
204.   Uncle Miltie
Let's hope Robles hits a HR, because Kent can't hit Hammond
2005-09-09 22:16:45
205.   King of the Hobos
If only Choi had walked... If Robles doesn't get on, then we waste a Kent AB with no one on
2005-09-09 22:17:24
206.   Xeifrank
203. I mean either friday, saturday or sunday. Call it whatever you want. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:18:11
207.   Xeifrank
Has APerez batted yet? Pinch hit him for OR and play him at SS. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:18:20
208.   Icaros
Nomo and Ishii let Tracy down last year, so Kuo and Choi are screwed. Tracy would probably play Ichiro, though, since he's rather overrated.
2005-09-09 22:18:48
209.   Uncle Miltie
This is the time to steal
2005-09-09 22:19:35
210.   Xeifrank
Because SD manager knows Tracy won't play APerez at SS, he knows he's got a lefty vs lefty matchup for sure. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:20:52
211.   Xeifrank
Who is our backup SS these days?
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:21:06
212.   King of the Hobos
Randa's getting annoying, Robles needs to learn to hit line drives elsewhere

2 runs off Linebrink/Hoffman, with Kent leading off won't be easy

2005-09-09 22:21:49
213.   oldbear
Its not looking good.
2005-09-09 22:21:52
214.   ddger
Tracy must be saving Perez to PH for Edwards in the 9th.
2005-09-09 22:21:57
215.   Uncle Miltie
Robles is hitting .308 against LHP this year (with no power). Tracy likes batting average. Why do you think he kept playing Mike Edwards and his empty .280 batting average (now he's being exposed)?
2005-09-09 22:23:10
216.   DaveP
211 - Russell Martin? :)
2005-09-09 22:23:17
217.   Icaros
Why do you think he kept playing Mike Edwards and his empty .280 batting average (now he's being exposed)?

He thinks Mike has a nice can?

2005-09-09 22:23:47
218.   oldbear
One good thing about all this is that most of our 'scrappy' players all have 1 year contracts.

Repko, Phillips, Edwards, Valentin will not be here next year.

That is something to look forward too.

2005-09-09 22:24:11
219.   King of the Hobos
211 Valentin, then probably Edwards, Aybar, Repko, Saenz, and finally Perez
2005-09-09 22:25:19
220.   King of the Hobos
This is why we should have just told Werth to get caught stealing. Let Robles at least have a chance to get on without Hammonds pitching
2005-09-09 22:25:55
221.   Icaros
Repko, Phillips, Edwards, Valentin will not be here next year.

Three of those guys have one-year contacts because they don't have enough service time to be free agents. I doubt they get DFA'd.

2005-09-09 22:26:19
222.   Uncle Miltie
220- who's to say that he would be caught? He has a pretty good stealing percentage
2005-09-09 22:26:28
223.   Icaros
2005-09-09 22:29:18
224.   DaveP
Kuo should have been left in Jacksonville if Tracy isn't going to use him. He needs to keep pitching since he's healthy right now and has about 1/3 of an inning on his arm in the last 6 years..
2005-09-09 22:30:03
225.   DaveP
nice throw
2005-09-09 22:30:09
226.   Icaros
2005-09-09 22:30:18
227.   Kayaker7
Steiner just said that Roberts got gunned down by Jason Phillips.
2005-09-09 22:30:23
228.   King of the Hobos
I think Phillips may be non tendered before we offer him arbitration. I assume DePo will try to sign him as a backup catcher, then let him go. Edwards could be let go pretty easily, and Repko can be traded to Bowden for something of use
2005-09-09 22:30:25
229.   Uncle Miltie
I think Roberts has slown down a little bit. He used to be able to steal on pitchous.
2005-09-09 22:30:30
230.   ddger
Navarro is starting to throw straight now.

All our relief pitchers are doing their job tonight.

It would be a shame to waste such a rare sight.

2005-09-09 22:30:51
231.   oldbear
Nice throw Navarro. Throwing out Dave Roberts has to count for something doesnt it?
2005-09-09 22:31:07
232.   Icaros
224 True. Jacksonville is actually playing meaningful games and could really use him.
2005-09-09 22:31:42
233.   King of the Hobos
224 Maybe Tracy is saving him for San Diego's infamous Roberts-Fick-Giles-Klesko-Sweeney line up later in the series
2005-09-09 22:32:20
234.   capdodger
Woah... I come back from a night out at the nearby taps and a Dodgers catcher nails Dave Roberts on a pitchout. Hopefully the Dodgers can get some runs now.
2005-09-09 22:32:36
235.   Nagman
Otsuka has had problems lately. nothing has been easy.
2005-09-09 22:33:09
236.   Bob Timmermann
About 10:45 now, I'm told.

But here's a preview

St. Francis 17
Arcadia 12

2005-09-09 22:33:37
237.   Xeifrank
Happy to see the local boys (from my hometown and yes I even played against them in tournaments a long time ago) win the US Open Men's Doubles title. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:34:10
238.   DaveP
229 - Roberts stole 38 of 41 last year. He's 22 of 33 this year.
2005-09-09 22:34:13
239.   King of the Hobos
That seals it...can we play for the draft pick? And can we go with the rookies rather than Phillips and Edwards?
2005-09-09 22:35:09
240.   Icaros
228 Who will be backup catcher? Phillips would be a good one, if that was all he was used for.

Seems like Edwards and Repko would just go back to AAA if there isn't room.

2005-09-09 22:35:27
241.   oldbear
Terrible nite from Olmedo Saenz. No patience. Just gave away at bats all game.

He was completely useless this evening.

2005-09-09 22:35:31
242.   King of the Hobos
Phillips-Navarro-Edwards vs Hoffman, how can we lose?
2005-09-09 22:36:09
243.   capdodger
229 Hmm.... He's definitely lost a step.
2005-09-09 22:36:31
244.   oldbear
Choi's value pretty evident in the 8th inning.

Otsuka threw 6 pitches...

Fire Tim Wallach.

2005-09-09 22:36:33
245.   King of the Hobos
240 Back up catchers come very easily and very cheap. Bako could come back I suppose
2005-09-09 22:38:23
246.   Xeifrank
I don't trust Jim Tracy with Phillips on the roster, even if he was just kept as a backup catcher he'd be starting at 1B just like he is now, unless we had David Ortiz or Albert Pujols on the team. I'd rather pick up some other less scrappy replacement level catcher for a backup or call up our other minor league catching prospect, especially if he impresses at spring training. I don't care about having two very young catchers just as long as Tracy's pet dog is gone. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:39:00
247.   Uncle Miltie
Any chance that Ledee pinch hits for Phillips or Edwards?
2005-09-09 22:39:36
248.   King of the Hobos
If Houlton comes out after the homer...

Tracy never can figure out when to take a pitcher out

2005-09-09 22:39:37
249.   Xeifrank
242. Oh dear, Fido is leading off the 9th.
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:40:19
250.   Icaros
245 Why would they rather have Bako than Phillips? Phillips is half the price and started over Bako to begin the season.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-09 22:40:58
251.   King of the Hobos
247 If one of them trips and breaks his leg walking to the plate, then maybe. I'm guessing Ledee will be used in edwards spot, in an attempt to get a man on.
2005-09-09 22:41:21
252.   Xeifrank
Ledee could hit for any of the first three.
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:41:23
253.   DaveP
250 - see 246
2005-09-09 22:42:03
254.   oldbear
Yeah I cant see Edwards, Repko, or Phillips taking up space on the 40 man roster.

Phillips only use is as a back up catcher. However, DePo would have to change managers in order to properly utilize JP.

DePo may just instead decide to get rid of all the parts that Tracy misuses, and bring Tracy back instead.

2005-09-09 22:42:11
255.   Uncle Miltie
Good play
2005-09-09 22:42:16
256.   Xeifrank
The Dodgers 2006 outfielder is up now.
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:42:29
257.   Icaros
246 See, that's the thing. If moves are made to bring in even worse players just so the manager doesn't overuse the other ones, that's ridiculous.
2005-09-09 22:48:31
258.   Kayaker7
254 That would mean that Depo would get rid of Choi too. Might as well, as long as Tracy's not using him.
2005-09-09 22:49:21
259.   Uncle Miltie
Nice at bat clutch outmaker
2005-09-09 22:49:23
260.   bokonon42
Bako's still got another year on his contract, hasn't he? Unless DePo means to carry three catchers, somebody has to go.
2005-09-09 22:49:26
261.   Kayaker7
Yay...Phillips does what he does. Aggressive.
2005-09-09 22:49:39
262.   King of the Hobos
That first pitch pop up was clutch...
2005-09-09 22:50:00
263.   was it tims mitt i saw
i hear him! i hear him!
2005-09-09 22:50:17
264.   Nagman
256 I imagine a lineup that featured Robles, Drew, Choi, Giles, and Navarro would get its share of walks.
2005-09-09 22:50:24
266.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, that was so ... not exciting.
2005-09-09 22:51:02
267.   Xeifrank
257. Welcome to the world of Jim Tracy and his Crazy 8 ball. vr, Xei
Tracy: Should I leave Houlton in?
Crazy 8 Ball: Ask again later.
2005-09-09 22:51:02
268.   Jim Hitchcock
Good job, Bob. A regular gig?
2005-09-09 22:51:30
269.   Uncle Miltie
At least Edwards doesn't get to hit
2005-09-09 22:51:32
270.   Icaros
If DePodesta gets rid of players because he can't get his manager to do things right and doesn't have the guts to fire him, then he is a candy ass who has no business being a Major League GM.

Tracy will never use the players right. This time it's Choi and Phillips, next time it will be someone else.

2005-09-09 22:52:13
271.   Xeifrank
Antonio Perez is on deck??? Never heard of the guy, did we just call up some unknown prospect today? vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:52:18
272.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, that was so ... not exciting.
2005-09-09 22:52:22
273.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, that was so ... not exciting.
2005-09-09 22:52:40
274.   Xeifrank
2005-09-09 22:53:07
275.   Uncle Miltie
That was a play that the real Manny would be proud of
2005-09-09 22:53:16
276.   Xeifrank
Our 6th string shortstop with a chance to win it. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:53:20
277.   Kayaker7
267 LOL. Very funny.
2005-09-09 22:53:39
278.   Bob Timmermann
Note to self:

If asked to do this again, write it down ahead of time.

2005-09-09 22:53:46
279.   Uncle Miltie
Ledee getting high fives for reaching on an error?
2005-09-09 22:54:45
280.   Icaros
Bako's still got another year on his contract, hasn't he?

I'm pretty sure he only has a one year deal. He's also old and coming off of major knee surgery. Phillips is the better option, IMO.

2005-09-09 22:55:07
281.   Kayaker7
279 He has a sore hamstring, so he gets a high five for hobbling to first base.
2005-09-09 22:55:16
282.   Bob Timmermann

Not a regular gig, Roggin's people pick particular games and my number came up. A lot of time I'm covering stuff like Glendale vs. La Canada or Flintridge Prep vs. Campbell Hall.

Nobody gets too excited about those.

2005-09-09 22:55:22
283.   Uncle Miltie
That was ball 4 Antonio
2005-09-09 22:55:42
284.   Xeifrank
Home run Perez! Oops, jumped the gun
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:56:18
285.   Uncle Miltie
He swung at ball 4 twice
2005-09-09 22:56:28
286.   Xeifrank
Perez swung at ball four and ball five. Hoffman is a tough cookie. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:56:36
287.   Steve
Please gauge the likelihood that Phillips will be playing first base on either Monday or Tuesday night.
2005-09-09 22:56:43
288.   Bob Timmermann
Now I can settle in and see the fulfillment of the Naccarato Prophecy.
2005-09-09 22:56:46
289.   Uncle Miltie
Throw Werth 3 changeups
2005-09-09 22:57:26
290.   Uncle Miltie
Nope only needed 2
2005-09-09 22:57:29
291.   Icaros
He swung at ball 4 twice

That's Hoffman's pitch, though. He's made a career getting people to swing at that.

2005-09-09 22:57:50
292.   Xeifrank
Well, season over! Or as they say in San Diego, Ghoffame over!?? vr, Xei
2005-09-09 22:57:58
293.   King of the Hobos
And the Dodgers 2005 season is 100% over. That error was way too god to be true. Perez looked like he swung at one, if not two strikes, and a pop up is always annoying
2005-09-09 22:58:04
294.   Uncle Miltie
287- Cheech and Chong high
2005-09-09 22:59:06
295.   Bob Timmermann
I was really afraid I was going to call St. Francis's QB "Scott Peterson".
2005-09-09 23:00:18
296.   Xeifrank
The room is dark, Jim Tracy is spraying his keyboard with WD40, grabs his Crazy 8 Ball.
Tracy: Should I start Jason Phillips Monday and Tuesday night.
Crazy 8 Ball: Of course.
2005-09-09 23:00:36
297.   bokonon42
So, I was wrong again. I should shut up, more. Bako signed a one year contract, no mention of an option for 2006.
2005-09-09 23:01:27
298.   oldbear
291. Thats true but AP had the count 3-1. He has to take in that situation since were down by 2 runs already.

Thats just undisciplined hitting. AP is young and still learning, but I think the 'take' calls should come from the bench. When our hitters get to the plate, they get that adrenaline going and want to hack at everything.

Wallach has been a terrible influence on our young hitters. We should have had the bases loaded with 1 out had the manager did the right thing.

I mean, the manager forces our hitters to lay down bunts. Cant they give them the 'take a pitch' sign also?

2005-09-09 23:02:00
299.   King of the Hobos
At least when there some shred of a chance, I could handle Edwards and Phillips. Now that's over, I can't stand them. If not Perez, then Aybar at first. Put Myrow at 1st to get him a hit, he deserves it. The sad part is, now I'll have to root for the Padres if the playoffs is San Diego-St Louis-Atlanta-Florida/Philly-Anaheim-Chicago-Boston-New York
2005-09-09 23:03:02
300.   King of the Hobos
293 Strikes=balls
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-09 23:04:22
301.   Jim Hitchcock
I had Kurt Vonnegut (muted) on the tube as I was listening to Bob...planted a very funny image in my mind...
2005-09-09 23:04:24
302.   Uncle Miltie
298- why take 3-1 when you are actually ahead in the count. If you have a good pitch to hit you swing. Ask any hitter if they go up to the plate looking to walk. On a 3-2 count you are just looking to make contact, while 3-1 you are looking for a pitch to drive. The objective is not to walk, it's to get on base any way possible.
2005-09-09 23:04:37
303.   King of the Hobos
299 The first "first" = third. I'm on a role, guess the loss has me thinking unclearly
2005-09-09 23:05:20
304.   Xeifrank
atleasta football season has started and the basketball season is just around the corner. Kind of bummed that hockey ended their strike, but atleast hockey is better than watching poker on the sports networks.
vr, Xei
2005-09-09 23:05:43
305.   Steve
296 -- Self-immolation may not be out of the question yet then.
2005-09-09 23:06:29
306.   Bob Timmermann
Must find food. All my attempts to eat before the game were foiled as the traffic signals at the interesctions of Huntington and Rosemead as well as Duarte and Baldwin were out. It made a mess and I never got to any place to eat. I'm a hungry man.
2005-09-09 23:06:44
307.   Xeifrank
302. A walk is getting on base, so in fact it is part of the objective. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 23:08:15
308.   Xeifrank
306. If I lived in SoPas, I'd be eating over in Alhambra/Monterey Park every chance I could get. vr, Xei
2005-09-09 23:09:29
309.   oldbear
302. Not in that situation. 1st and 2nd one out, I'd rather a player take a pitch and get on base to get the bases loaded.

Because if he puts into play, there's still a 70% he's gonna fail.

Plus, when the bases are loaded, that puts alot more pressure on the pitcher to throw strikes.

I just hate 1st ball hacking. And I also hate hacking on 3-X counts when your team is trailing in a game. There's a time and place to be agressive on 3-x counts, but not in AP's situation.

2005-09-09 23:10:22
310.   Jim Hitchcock
Anybody else with DirecTV out there? Local Channel 9(KCAL) seems to have disappeared.
2005-09-09 23:10:24
311.   King of the Hobos
Bob, you wouldn't happen to have any other football scores would you? I have no idea if they ever mention the other scores at the games, I kinda doubt it... If somehow I can get the foothill scores, I'm too impatient to wait until tomorrow...
2005-09-09 23:11:53
312.   oldbear
299. I feel the exact opposite. Now that were out of it, I could care less who plays.
2005-09-09 23:13:13
313.   fanerman
312 - Same here. With the Dodgers out of it, me away from SoCal again, suddenly the Dodgers problems seem so far away. Next year...
2005-09-09 23:16:32
314.   Jim Hitchcock
311 - They read off the scores of 25 games just before Bob came on, and also an earlier 25.

I remember...none of them.

2005-09-09 23:16:45
315.   Xeifrank
So, is Depodesta back next year? vr, Xei
2005-09-09 23:20:13
316.   DaveP
just saw the replay of Vlad running through the stop sign and scoring the winning run from second on the bunt tonight. has it as "Guerrero's heads up play". A throw in the same area code and he's out by 5 feet. Should be "Vlad makes bonehead decision and lucks out".
2005-09-09 23:25:11
317.   DaveP
315 - didn't read the article, but if Depo doesn't do anything about Tracy, then he might as well go himself. A GM and manager on completely separate playbooks isn't going to work and if the GM doesn't have the nuts (or backing) to do anything about it, he might as well head out.

That said, I hope he's back and Tracy is gone.

2005-09-09 23:25:40
318.   Brendan

Foothill 28, Tustin 22 (Is that the foothill you meant?)

You can go to LA Times and click on high school sports and then click on game reports and then click on southern section or city section

2005-09-09 23:34:12
319.   Dodgersrock24
I said to myself this has to be a must sweep series and now there chances winning the division is over, unless they prove me wrong and I praying to god they do. 26 more days til the puck drops.
2005-09-09 23:37:46
320.   fanerman
315 - Same old same old.

I'm getting nervous about all the DePo stuff going on. Sure he has his flaws but there may not be 5 GM's I'd rather have for the Dodgers. I just wish he and our manager would get on the same page.

"DePodesta, who underplayed the importance of clubhouse personalities in assembling this roster -- even as many outside the team were questioning team chemistry -- has since recanted that position. Since he did this the day after Frank McCourt had forcefully stated a similar view, it's hard to give the general manager much credit for seeing the error of his ways."

DePo didn't specify what he was apologizing for. Jumping the gun, it looks like.

The article is the same old song. Injury this and that. Drew is injury prone for getting hit by pitch. Losing Beltre and his .729 OPS was absolutely killer (he'd probably do better if he stayed a Dodger, yes). He "disses" Ledee and Saenz... 2 of our strongest contributors this season.

Of course there's the strong positive correlation between last year's chemistry and last year's success. But I took Stats 101 and I remember the Professor saying that correlation IMPLIES causation. Blah blah blah.

Yeah our team has major problems but it's not the ones Mr. Lassen lists. I hope McCourt doesn't listen to this nonsense. My blood pressure is rising.

2005-09-09 23:43:06
321.   King of the Hobos
318 There's a foothill school now? I actually meant the league...I'd never been able to find timely scores, guess I'd never looked at LA Times
2005-09-09 23:54:06
322.   Brendan
it's all non league for the first 4-5 games. I'm not sure of all the teams in the Foothill league. what teams are you looking for?
2005-09-09 23:54:49
323.   Steve
320 -- Since LAT's not here, I'll ask. How do you know they are not on the same page?
2005-09-10 00:02:13
324.   Xeifrank
How come whenever Tracy conducts one of his postgame interviews in his office you can see a can of WD-40 sitting on his desk? Think he has a squeeky chair or a few loose screws? vr, Xei
2005-09-10 00:03:24
325.   Steve
He's like the Tin Man. He has to oil his joints.
2005-09-10 00:07:09
326.   Xeifrank
Why we are stuck with Jim Tracy for dummies:
McCourt/DePodesta/Tracy possible scenarios.

A. DePodesta and Tracy are on the same page and Tracy won't be fired.

B. DePodesta and Tracy don't see eye to eye.
B1. DePodesta doesn't have the guts to fire Tracy.
B2. DePodesta wants Tracy fired, but McCourt says NO.
B3. DePodesta wants Tracy fired and so does McCourt but must wait to end of current season to soften PR hit.
B4. DePodesta wants Tracy fired and so does McCourt but must wait until Tracy's contract runs out to soften PR hit.

I will rank these in order of most likely in my opinion. Your thoughts? vr, Xei

B3, B2, B4, B1, A

2005-09-10 00:08:01
327.   Brendan

it's full of vodka. peel that wd-40 label off.

2005-09-10 00:08:25
328.   Xeifrank
325. I don't remember, the Tin-Man had no? brains, heart or courage? vr, Xei
2005-09-10 00:11:10
329.   sanchez101
What suprises me about all the "analyis" of why the Dodgers season tanked by the media (Depo didnt care about chemistry, Depo didnt sign durable players, ect) is that they never mention the Dodgers most visible player: Eric Gagne

What suprises me about all the "analysis' here (and im as guilty as anyone) about why the Dodgers tanked (Tracy's managment, hitter impatience, ect.) is that we rarely mention the Dodgers most effective player: Eric Gange

Think about it, when Gange went down, who replaced him? From 2002-2004 Gagne averaged more than 8 warp. Who in the bullpen has stepped up to replace him? broxton?,schmoll?

Look at the warp number for this season (and expanding them over 162 games) compared to 2004.

year 2004 2005(adj. to 162g)
lineup 39.0 30.3
bench 8.7 10.3
rotation 16.5 16.2
bullpen 24.5 9.1
TOTAL 88.7 65.8

The total drop in warp is 22.9. Gagne's 8 warp alone accounts for 39% of the regression by the 2005 Dodgers. The bullpen, last seasons biggest strength, has been this years biggest weakness. The drop from 24.5 warp to 9.4 warp accounts for two thirds of the regression by the 2005 Dodgers. Not chemistry, not the new guys Depo brought in, not Tracy's "managment", not the offense. Oddly enough, while the media complains so much about all the roster turnover, the only part of the roster Depodesta did not turn over is the main reason why this team is so much worse than the 2004 western division champs.

2005-09-10 00:11:46
330.   Brendan
no heart, scarecrow no brain, lion no courage. (I can name all seven dwarves as well, take that Bob)
2005-09-10 00:15:37
331.   Steve
Even if it is not A (and I'm only afraid that it is A -- I don't know that it is A), I am concerned it is B2
2005-09-10 00:17:09
332.   Xeifrank
329. The article I quoted does mention the Gagne injury. Funny thing though, the author conveniently calls Gagne's injury "just one of those things" and chalks it up to a pitcher who throws hard and is overused. But Drew's injury, getting hit on the wrist bone by a 90+mph pitch isn't chalked up to "just one of those things", apparently getting hit by a pitch on a small bone has more to do with your body breaking down and being brittle than does a pitcher hurting his arm. The MSM is crap I tell ya! vr, Xei
2005-09-10 00:18:22
333.   Brendan

I think the dodgers are 50-1 when leading after eight innings( I might have that wrong but I thought that was the stat thrown out here the other night). although not having gagne stressed the bullpen it probably isn't a huge reason why the dodgers are where they are.Gagne "only" throws 50+ innings a year. they just are not a good team and they compound that by sitting their best offensive players on the bench.

2005-09-10 00:20:42
334.   Brendan

I meant 80 + innings, not 50

2005-09-10 00:21:58
335.   Xeifrank
331. So if it is B2, what do you do if you are DePodesta? Do you give McCourt an ultimatum, or resign if he seems headed down the Jim Tracy yellow brick road? Do you just keep doing your thing and hope that Tracy will eventually start the players that are meant to be starters? If DePodesta were to resign, do you think he could easily get another job as a GM, or would he be branded a failure? To me, it's very important that DePodesta succeeds. We must draw a line in the sand on this battle between the "Old School" and the Sabermetric backers. vr, Xei
2005-09-10 00:23:34
336.   Bob Timmermann
SB's school, Locke, beat Banning 48-0. Banning got creamed the week before also by Wilson. Banning must have not recruited anyone.

And Hollywood High after losing 42 straight games has opened the season 2-0. There's always hope!

2005-09-10 00:26:24
337.   Xeifrank
My alma-mater(sp?) lost 18-13. From the score, seems like the kicking game was pretty weak. vr, Xei
2005-09-10 00:31:05
338.   Bob Timmermann
My alma mater hasn't even bothered to phone in its score to the newspaper. My alma mater stinks in football recently.
2005-09-10 00:33:08
339.   Uncle Miltie
Great writing by Steve Henson:

Padres Dave Roberts and David Ross walked through the Dodger dugout and ducked into the manager's office, where Tracy gave Ross a warm hug and Roberts a kiss on the forehead.

Tracy is known to display affection for his former players — Roberts and Ross were Dodgers last season — but somehow it is difficult to imagine current bench-warmers Antonio Perez and Hee-Seop Choi getting the same treatment some day.

2005-09-10 00:37:13
340.   Steve
335 -- Answers:

1) no. If Jim Tracy keeps playing Jason Phillips at first base and Frank McCourt likes it, and likes you for getting Jason Phillips, why not pick up a nice paycheck and have a job?

2) No. Because why would Tracy start starting real starters now?

3) No. Virtually all of baseball has a vested interest in DePodesta's failure.

One can still hope that Tracy will hop teams this off-season, but I believe there is virtually no chance he will be fired. There is a much greater chance (though still low compared to 100%) that DePodesta will be fired.

2005-09-10 00:47:59
341.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers notebook also states that it's unlikely that Drew will return this season since his wrist hurts.

Which doesn't seem like a bad idea because there isn't much left in the season and it's likely he would come back like Werth did.

2005-09-10 01:01:24
342.   Jim Hitchcock
How come whenever Tracy conducts one of his postgame interviews in his office you can see a can of WD-40 sitting on his desk?

It's to remove the rust on Micki Hatchers long dormant slinky.

2005-09-10 01:08:10
343.   sanchez101
335. First, 50-1 after leading after 8 innings doesnt tell the whole story, only 51 games. How many come-from-behind victories did the Dodgers have last year(i forget, but i know it was second to the yankees, something like 50 times)? Last year more than half of the victories came because the bullpen shut down the opposition allowing the offense to make up a run or two.

Moreover, are you disputing that gagne was worth 7-9 wins a year? Ill admit that WARP is not a perfect measure, it "counts" defense twice, but its pretty close to reality, and I think the results show that the rotation and lineup maintained last season's performance for the most part.

If not the bullpen, then what, would playing choi instead of phillips make up 7-8 games in the standings? neither player is worth that much over an entire season let alone 150 ab's. Same with perez; the more i look at the numbers, the more i think tracy was not at fault, actually i think maybe we are way, way wrong. I think there is a really good argument that Tracy has done well this season, and that he should and will come back next season.

2005-09-10 01:11:43
344.   oldbear
I'm glad Henson has picked up on the Choi/Perez nonsense. I'm just surprised that the LA Media is this lacksadaisical about critizing the manager for not playing the best players.

If Tracy was managing on the east coast, he'd be getting grilled every nite by the reporters for the nonsense he's done this season.

2005-09-10 01:20:44
345.   sanchez101
but, what about the players he is playing that most managers wouldn't. How many managers would allow Werth to play center or bat leadoff? How many managers wouldve asked their GM to trade for a vetern SS, instead of playing Robles(i admit it is possible that this happened)? How many managers would've been comfortable letting a 21-year old rookie take over the full-time catching duties? How many managers would've allowed a rule 5 pick to take a spot in the rotation over veteran candidates? How many managers, after their young their closer became ineffective, would hand the job to another young reliever? Sure, a lot of these decisions were probably forced on him by surcumstance. But this is part of the problem of evaluating Tracy; his mistakes are easy to identify and measure, his success are not.
2005-09-10 01:22:25
346.   adg
how is it possible that DodgerThoughts is number 6 in yahoo's search for the key: 'restraunts in fullerton'?

it must mean that DodgerThoughts is everywhere...

2005-09-10 01:22:38
347.   sanchez101
sircumstance = circumstance, duh
2005-09-10 01:23:41
348.   werthgagne31
there's no doubt in my mind the dodgers need a starting pitcher if not 2 in the offseason.
we are going to lose weaver and i'm not satisfied with houlton.
i was really hoping izturis would be used as trade bait for a starting pitcher, but he is injured.
we're gonna lose bradley also, what's funny is that both weaver and bradley are from southern california and were excited about playing for the dodgers, so much for being excited about playing for the dodgers, money and attitude problems.
tracy needs to be gone and martin needs to become our cather with some platooning with choi at 1b to keep him fresh but not out of the lineup and to give navarro plenty of time catching.
giles is the best outfield free agent option, mueller is the best 3b free agent option.
any pitching from free agency is going to cost big bucks tho.
get giles and mueller and trade for pitching, or raise payroll enough to get pitching from free agency.
as much as i despise tracy i also don't like mccourt and his 90 million payroll, it limits what you can get and makes you have to trade prospects, which i don't want to do unless its prospects like repko/young/aybar.
the fact of the matter is we need 2 starting pitchers a 3b and 2 outfielders(assuming weaver and bradley are gone).
i'm getting tired of the revolving door in the outfield, 3b, 1b, and i'm tired of izturis at ss, and i'm also tired of the inconsistant starting pitching, i can live with an inconsistant middle relief as long as there is a solid setup man (which looks like sanchez) and a solid closer (gagne) as long as we have a solid offense and starting pitching.
a lot of people think lowe and perez are inconsistent, but what can you do clean house, houlton is more inconsistant than those 2.
mccourt needs to raise payroll, cause this is the reason why we have revolving doors in multiple positions and inconsistancy.
and tracy needs to be fired.
2005-09-10 01:27:23
349.   werthgagne31
my take on the guys we have on the team.
alvarez retire
brazoban keep
broxton keep
cararra gone
dessens keep
gagne keep
2005-09-10 01:28:16
350.   werthgagne31
oooopppsss i acidently pressed submit
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-09-10 01:29:47
351.   sanchez101
348. I agree with most of what you say. Im not as angry about the payroll. Sometimes spending money can get you into more problems than they solve. If the Dodgers had decided that they HAD to spend ten million more dollars last year and that it had to go to starting pitching, we would end up with Eric Milton, Russ Ortiz, Carl Pavano or someone similar. This offseason looks will overprice starting pitching as much or more than last season. If you cant spend the money effectively, dont spend it at all.

I am also beging to change my views on Tracy, the more i think about it, i think he has done, on balance, a good job this year. If anything i think i have more confidence that he will know how to deploy are young prospects once they get to the majors.

2005-09-10 01:32:33
352.   sanchez101
344. Phillips was used by the Mets as a 1B, was their outcry amongst the NY media? I dont remember any.
2005-09-10 01:56:05
353.   werthgagne31
if we can avoid having the young inconsistant relievers next season so they can get more experienced in the minors the better.
2 new starting pitchers with penny,lowe,perez
bullpen of gagne,sanchez,dessens,houlton,?,?
can we still send brazoban back to the minors to develop another pitch, if so i'd do it.
the rest of them can be sent back down.
it would be a good idea to get 2 relievers from free agency.
you can never have enough pitching, depth in case of injuries.
drew, giles, ? outfield, werth,cruz,ledee as backups =6.
mueller,perez,kent,choi/martin infield, seanz robles backups=6.
martin and navarro catchers=2.

so all in all 2 starting pitchers 2 relievers 2 outfielders 1 3b as well as re-signing players like cruz and seanz and dealing with arbitration players, depodesta has his work cut out for him, oh i allmost forgot firing tracy is another task for depodesta.

2005-09-10 02:06:52
354.   werthgagne31
and to tell you the truth, the only position prospects not on my proposed 2006 team i would call untouchable are laroche and guzman.
all these repko,aybar,young,loney types are totally tradable trade bait.
i'm only hesitant on trading pitching prospects due to the fact that the dodgers have a history of developing good pitching, and not good position players, piazza is the only one in recent memory, karros and mondesi were nothing special, and hollandsworth is a journeyman, mondesi turned out to be a journeyman too.
2005-09-10 02:13:32
355.   oldbear
352. The Mets didnt have a Hee Seop Choi sitting on the bench. Its akin to Phillips (a crappy veteran) playing ahead of a young player with potential (David Wright for instance).. If Phillips was playing ahead of Wright, there'd have been an outcry.

Anyways, here's what I'd do in the off-season (Bare Minimum)

#1. Fire Jim Tracy and the entire coaching staff.

#2. Resign Bradley through arbitration. Why? He's cheap. He's good. He'll have something to prove because this year is his last year of being arbitration eligible. The Angels were IDIOTS for letting Jose Guillen go, and the same thing will happen to the Dodgers if they let Bradley go. RESIGN BRADLEY for ONE YEAR. No lose situation.

#3. Sign Brian Giles to a 3yr 22mils.
#4. Sign Bill Mueller to a 2 year deal as insurance at 3rd base.
#5. Resign Jose Cruz JR as a 4th OF'er
#4. Sign Ted Lilly as a 5th starter.


CF- Bradley
1b- Choi
RF- Drew
2b- Kent
LF- Giles
3rd- Perez
C- Navarro
SS- Robles

Bench: Ledee, Cruz, Martin, Mueller, Izturis

#1. Penny
#2. Lowe
#3. Perez
#4. Lilly
#5. Houlton


Bottomline. Fill the entire team with either good hitters, OR legit prospects. No more scrappers or AAAA players.

The payroll of this above team would probaly only be 80 mils, which is why I think its realistic. ( I didnt include signing the Furcals, Burnetts, Damons, Nomars, etc)

I dont think the team needs to be that retooled. Just get a new manager in here that will play the young kids. And make sure the 25 man roster is filled with either already good hitters, or legit prospects.

2005-09-10 02:18:38
356.   sanchez101
im fine with bringing houlton back next year. Id try to trade for couple young, serviceable, cheap starters (aaron harang types) and sign a veteran or two (dessens or cory lidle types) and let them and jackson duke it out in spring training for how ever many spots are open in the rotation. Depending on how many young starters/cheap veterans i get, i would trade lowe and/or perez when the other teams become rapid for starters after AJ Burnett signs some over-extravagant deal, and guys like Jeff Weaver are getting 4yr/$36million deals.
2005-09-10 02:26:59
357.   werthgagne31
the future infield of laroche 3b(2007) guzman ss(2007) perez 2b(2007) choi/martin 1b(2006).
the future catchers martin and navarro(2006).
outfielders are a dime a dozen, so just plug free agents when necessary.
we have plenty of pitching prospects that we can plug into the equasion when they are ready, but i don't think any of them are truely ready.
penny,lowe,perez,gagne,sanchez,dessens,houlton are all out of options, not that i would send any of them down,brazoban i'm not sure if we can send him down, so that leaves 4 spots or 3 if brazoban can't be sent down available that we should fill outside the organization and have those younsters work on what they need to work on in the minors such as broxton's walks, schmoll's excessive hits allowed, brazoban a new pitch,jackson everything, ect.
2005-09-10 02:31:10
358.   sanchez101
The one upside (and excuse) of playing phillips at 1st is that you might be able to trade him for something usefull, he has about as much value now as he did at the end of last year. I would seriously consider trading Antonio Perez, this year he has performed at 90% of his pecota baseline, we may have watched the 225 best ab's of his career. He looks eerily similar to Dave Ross circa 2003. Unfortunatly, its very unlikely that he becomes Mark Loretta, and unfortunatly he isnt much of a 3B and managment isnt comfortable playing him there or he would be. Id rather have Aybar because he's younger, can actually play 3B very well, and compare his pecota projections for 2006: Perez .264 Aybar .257. Perez has more trade value and aybar's better defense makes up most if not all the difference as hitters.

Why would mueller sign with the dodgers if he isnt even guaranteed a starting job? Given that he will be 35, will be moving from fenway to dodger stadium, and will probably have no use in the second year of his contract due to young infielders such as aybar, guzman, laroche, and young.

2005-09-10 02:44:25
359.   Joon
How many managers would allow Werth to play center or bat leadoff?
Is it a good thing that Werth plays center and bat leadoff?

How many managers wouldve asked their GM to trade for a vetern SS, instead of playing Robles(i admit it is possible that this happened)?

Robles is the back up SS, so he played there when Izturis was on the 15 day DL.
Then Robles won the starting 3B job over Perez. (again, is this a good thing?)

Izturis really didn't miss many games due to injury and was not out for the year until September, when the trading deadline has passed. How many managers request a trade when their SS go on the DL for 15 days? If Tracy wanted another SS to replace the slumping Izturis, most people here would've been happy.

And Tracy did ask for a big bat via trade, probably at 3B or OF.

How many managers would've been comfortable letting a 21-year old rookie take over the full-time catching duties?
When they're top prospects, how many managers wouldn't?

How many managers would've allowed a rule 5 pick to take a spot in the rotation over veteran candidates?
The veteran candidates were Erickson and Dessens. OK, I'll give Tracy credit for Houlton over Dessens.

How many managers, after their young their closer became ineffective, would hand the job to another young reliever?
There are only 2 veteran relievers in the pen right now. Maybe Tracy just doesn't like Dessens that much. OK, credit to Tracy for not naming Carrara the closer.

Sure, a lot of these decisions were probably forced on him by surcumstance.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist naming those circumstance.

But this is part of the problem of evaluating Tracy; his mistakes are easy to identify and measure, his success are not.
Well, some of the things you mentioned I don't really think are success. And the point is not that he makes mistakes, is that he makes Jason Phillips at 1B batting clean up mistakes.

2005-09-10 02:49:05
360.   werthgagne31
""""""""'Why would mueller sign with the dodgers if he isnt even guaranteed a starting job? Given that he will be 35, will be moving from fenway to dodger stadium, and will probably have no use in the second year of his contract due to young infielders such as aybar, guzman, laroche, and young."""""""""

cause mueller will start at 3b in 2006 and also i believe 2 of 3 of aybar/young/perez will get traded, and look at valentin he signed a 1 year contract and he's the same age as mueller.
valentin alot better power numbers than mueller but less average and obp, basically mueller and valentin are the same type of player as far as value, its just one has shown his age(valentin) and got injured and the other hasn't(mueller).

2005-09-10 02:54:28
361.   werthgagne31
i should have specified in 360 that BEFORE THIS SEASON valentin and mueller are the same type of players as far as value, and the dodgers got valentin for a 1 year deal.
2005-09-10 03:20:20
362.   werthgagne31
a lesson to learn is to trade a guy that doesn't fit on the team such as izturis before he gets injured.
i'm so pissed about this.
izturis was trade bait and should have been traded when we could have done it.
i'm so pissed about this.
2005-09-10 03:45:07
363.   sanchez101
359. Werth's strength this season is getting on base, many managers have trouble putting good on-base guys at the top of the rotation. His defense in center has been outstanding considering that he's never played there before and he doesnt look like a typical center fielder, and for a lot of managers, experience and appearance means more than it should.

Not all managers would go strait to robles after izturis was injured: When Vidro got injured, Bowden couldnt wait to aquire Spivey, the Tigers aquired Polanco, whom they traded their backup shortstop and Ugueth Urbina for, only to activate Carlos Guillen 2 weeks later.

In regards to navarro; why is andy marte still in AAA when chipper could easily move to first, why not kotchman instead of erstad, why mientkiewicz instead of morneau, why not cano instead of signing womack, why is macias playing ahead of murton or neifi ahead of cedeno? Managers avoid giving top prospects a chance all the time.

360. Mueller's eqa is .287 this year, and batted .281 in 2004, and in 2003 when he won the batting title, his eqa was .314. Valentin has eqa's of .238,.255,.265,.269 the last 4 seasons. One strikes out 30% of the time the other doesnt. One was on a highly publicized, big market, WS winning team. Its possible, but if you were his agent would you be thinking that it is a good deal.

2005-09-10 07:10:19
364.   Howard Fox
Okay, I give...I finally am willing to admit the season is over for the Dodgers, as hard as it is for me to say it, being the die hard that I am...

So its on to next year...

Everyone talks about Robles as a backup, Werth as being great getting on base, Cruz as a backup, etc etc...personally, I don't see more than 2 or 3 SS out there in the majors who is better all around than Robles...Cruz, change of scenery, playing regularly, I like him...Werth, I am not sold on...

In 2006 I see us set at OF with Drew and Cruz and needing a 3rd, maybe Werth, but not at leadoff, and after someone explains to him that he is not a homerun hitter and stop swinging like one...

I see us with Kent, Robles and needing 1B and 3B...maybe, just maybe, Perez can get it together, not get injured, and develop his 3B skills defensively...

I see us set at catcher with Navarro...

Pitching? looks to me like Penny and Lowe and need 3 more starters...bullpen is Gagne, Braz, Sanchez, Wunsch, Dessens, maybe Schmoll, so far...

...3 starters, a first baseman and a third baseman...not an insurmountable task...

DePo certainly has his work cut out for him, but we'll be okay as long as we can stay healthy next year...the silver lining this year is that a lot of our bench will be pretty young and will have had a substantial amount of experience now...

2005-09-10 07:55:41
365.   Vishal
"I don't see more than 2 or 3 SS out there in the majors who is better all around than Robles"

i'm not sure exactly what you mean by "all around", but these guys aren't too bad, and i'd rather have any of them than robles starting:

let's see...
lopez (okay, his D is not so good, but his bat makes up for it)

2005-09-10 09:20:37
366.   Howard Fox
365...Tejada, Furcal...I don't think I'd take the others...there's the two...but then again, there is the price tag that comes with them...
2005-09-10 09:46:14
367.   Vishal
howard, robles has an EqA of .254 and a rate2 of 99 at shortstop. i'm no stats whiz, but what that's telling me is that he's almost league average defensively (meaning roughly half the shorstops in the league are better with the glove), and offensively he's in the neighborhood of alex cora:

for perspective on EqA, furcal is in the .270s
julio lugo and carlos guillen are in the high .280s
crosby, jeter, and peralta have EqA's around .290-.300+
tejada is with the league's best hitters at .317

and ALL of them except tejada have been better (some by a lot) defensively.

sure, you may balk at the price of getting one of them, but considering how many good young shortstops are out there, the claim that robles is one of the better ones just doesn't hold water, either defensively or offensively.

2005-09-10 09:48:23
368.   dzzrtRatt
there is the price tag that comes with them...

That's a good comment, one that everyone who thinks the Dodgers could have done much better this season ought to think about in assessing the frustrations of this season.

Whatever deal we might have made, it would have required trading a good prospect. Those fellows down in Jacksonville, primarily--the ones that cause the Dodgers to be seen as the #2 system in all the land. Other teams had about as much interest in Mike Edwards and Cody Ross as we did.

If you ran the Dodgers, and you saw the kind of team we came out of Spring Training with, did that team seem like a "one or two pieces away from the World Series" type of team? If so, then it might have been acceptable to trade one of those great prospects.

Then, as we saw the impact of injuries to Gagne, Penny, Werth, Bradley, Valentin, Drew, Izturis, did the case get stronger for trading the future to plug those holes---or did it get weaker? Would Adam Dunn have really put this team over the top? Or Ted Lilly? And what would you have given up for them. We know what the other teams would have demanded. Not Izturis.

Certainly, if DePodesta had been willing to surrendur half of Jacksonville, we could have collected a bunch of prominent veterans to fill the holes on the Dodgers. It would have also cost a lot of payroll, but maybe a team like that could have won the division. This year. But then what?

Sometimes you have to ride out a crappy season. Past Dodger GMs have been afraid to do that, and have depleted the minor league system to avoid the criticism from the Plaschkes of the world. At least this bunch had the, uh, 'heart and soul' to stay close even in most of our losses. We saw some good players emerge and there was pleasure in that. But mostly, we need to look at this season--and perhaps next--patiently. We don't want to contribute to the massive pressure that will be on DePo and McCourt to panic and trade off prospects to avoid another mediocre season. The Dodgers' PR geniuses should simply tell the fans that next year will be a lot like this year was, but the future is very bright, so hang in there.

2005-09-10 09:50:48
369.   Howard Fox
368 I am in total agreement with you. Patience is a virtue.
2005-09-10 09:56:47
370.   Steve
I would take every shortstop on 365's list, at their own price, but Jeter, Renteria, and Furcal over Robles. I would, obviously, take Jeter if just skills were the issue. Renteria's contract will be a very nice pension for him as he ages ungracefully. Furcal does all the things I don't care about.
2005-09-10 10:02:22
371.   Vishal
370 i was just thinking of shortstops off the top of my head. and i wasn't thinking about contract or trade value, i was just thinking "would this person be better to have than robles?", i.e., would i switch robles for this person, straight-up. and the answer was almost universally "yes". nothing against robles, as he's a very good, cheap backup/stop-gap player, and i'm glad we have him. but i wouldn't want to be planning any 2006 lineups around him, that's all i'm saying.
2005-09-10 10:08:14
372.   Steve
Completely agree
2005-09-10 10:39:33
373.   Howard Fox
and I think if we didn't have so many holes at so many positions this year, everyone would love Robles for working the pitchers, getting on base, etc
2005-09-10 10:57:23
374.   jasonungar05
count me in on #368..well said.
2005-09-10 11:12:23
375.   Joon
363 Tracy wants his lead off man to steal. When he bats Izturis 1st and Robles 2nd, we know he values stealing ability more than on base ability for lead off man.
What has been outstanding about Werth in CF? I'd rather he put Repko in CF over Valentin in LF.

About Robles, why didn't you say how many managers would play Repko, Ross and Chen instead of requesting a trade? Tracy obviously doesn't have a choice here. And how do you know those managers you mentioned requested a trade instead of their GM acting on their own?

Maybe Navarro is playing because Tracy gets to put Phillips at first base. Of the guys you mentioned, staying in AAA is not so bad as he gets to play full time; Kotchman getting ABs now; morneau plays full time now, with stats worse than Choi; Cano didn't look ready from 2004 stats, and he plays full time now; I don't know, does being better than Baker count as success?

Anyway, I still think Tracy's mistakes are too huge too want him to saty whatever success he's had.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.