Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodgers-Padres Sunday Open Chat
2005-09-11 00:02
by Jon Weisman
Comments (279)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-11 10:30:18
1.   Bob Timmermann
99 and I can't take it no more...

Random Dodger game callback

September 11, 1906

In a game that mattered very little to either team, the Philadelphia Phillies edged Brooklyn at Washington Park, 5-3 with single runs in the eighth and ninth. The loss dropped Brooklyn to 51-77. The team was in sixth place, 47 games behind the first place Chicago Cubs, who were running away with the pennant with a 100-32 record.

Tim Jordan hit his 10th home run of the season for Brooklyn in the fourth inning, a solo shot off of Lew Richie. But four Brooklyn errors allowed the Phillies to pull out the win. The Phillies got 10 hits off of Brooklyn starter Elmer Stricklett.

After suffering through a 48-104 record in 1905, the worst year in franchise history, Brooklyn had a new manager, Patsy Donovan, and a few new players. The results were marginally better. The team improved to 66-86, although they were 50 games worse than first place Chicago. Brooklyn improved from eighth to fifth.

As bad as Brooklyn may have been, there were two leaders in offensive categories. Tim Jordan hit 12 home runs, most in the major leagues. A Dodger would not duplicate that feat until Adrian Beltre did it in 2004. Right fielder Harry Lumley led the league in slugging at .477. Despite all this slugging, Brooklyn was sixth in the league in runs scored with just 495. The Cubs led the league with 704.

But in 1906, pitching was the name of the game in baseball. Brooklyn had a staff ERA of 3.13, but that was seventh in the league and half a run worse than the league average. The pennant-winning Cubs posted a 1.75 ERA.

The batting heroics of Jordan and Lumley were counterbalanced by the ineptitude of catcher Bill Bergen. In 103 games, he batted .159 and managed to score just 9 runs and have 6 extra base hits.

The Dodgers had only two league leaders in pitching categories. Stricklett led the league in balks with two, while going 14-18. Doc Scanlan went 18-13 with a 3.19 ERA and led the NL in walks with 127.

Donovan would manage Brooklyn for three years and his tenure can best be described as "undistinguished." His teams finished fifth twice and in seventh once. His 66 wins in 1906 would be his best total in Brooklyn. In his managerial career, Donovan would lead five different teams over 11 seasons and had a career winning percentage of .438.

Thanks to Chicago Tribune, and Retrosheet

2005-09-11 10:30:52
2.   werthgagne31
i wanna see aybar in the lineup, to see if he can be as good offensively or better than antonio perez, cause apparently aybar vs perez in defense is tilted towards aybar.
2005-09-11 10:34:11
3.   werthgagne31
i think the future infield (2007 and beyond is laroche 3b guzman ss aybar or perez 2b choi and a platoon mate (martin) 1b.
catcher martin and navarro.
i wonder who would be best to take over at 2b when kent leaves aybar or perez.
2005-09-11 10:35:24
4.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Bill Madden column in the NY Daily News was mentioned in the other thread, but he had a list of "dysfunctional personalities" on the Dodgers. And most of them you could agree with: Kent, Bradley, Lowe, O Perez. But he also has Drew and Phillips.

Is Drew really a bad guy in the clubhouse? Or is Phillips? One guy is hurt and the other guy just isn't playing well. I doubt their personalities had much to do with it.

2005-09-11 10:37:43
5.   werthgagne31
i know, thats exactly what i was thinking.
whats wrong with drew's personality.
phillips too.
2005-09-11 10:49:58
6.   SiGeg
4 You see, you're supposed to be fiery, as long as you're not too fiery and thus mean. If you're not mean, but not fiery, that's no good. You're supposed to not get hurt (which as we all know is a moral defect), but you are supposed to PLAY hurt. Thus, Drew is dysfunctional.

Also, playing poorly IS a personality disorder. The players who play poorly have made an immoral choice is lifestyle. That accounts for Phillips. That and the fact that you're only supposed to wear goggles if you're a pitcher. Duh.

2005-09-11 10:55:28
7.   Eric Enders
Phillips had a highly publicized confrontation with a journalist (using that word very loosely) earlier this year, so while he might not have a personality problem, I guess it's understandable how he winds up on that list.

As far as I can tell, though, the only problem with Drew's personality is that he doesn't have one. (Then again, maybe that's what Madden was talking about.)

2005-09-11 10:57:24
8.   Bob Timmermann
But since Lowe has pitched well as of late does that make him less immoral?

I find the whole Lowe "affair" so blown out of proportion. Baseball players were probably cheating on their spouses as long as there has been pro ball.

In David Block's book, his brother Phillip writes about Al Spalding who raised a child as his "ward" although it was actually a child born out of wedlock with a woman he eventually married. I think I've remembered that right. I lent the book out.

If not, I hope the Spalding estate doesn't sue me for libel.

2005-09-11 11:01:51
9.   SiGeg
But since Lowe has pitched well as of late does that make him less immoral?

In the world of sports analysis, in all seriousness I can say that the answer is yes.

2005-09-11 11:03:09
10.   D4P

Your question reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from the documentary "The Fog of War." McNamara admitted that many of the tactics used by the US against Japan in WWII were criminal acts, and that he would likely have been tried as a war criminal if the US had lost the war. This left him to wonder (to the effect) "What makes (burning, torturing, killing, etc.) moral if you win, but immoral if you lose?"

2005-09-11 11:04:00
11.   Bob Timmermann
In the notes story, Tracy uses a phrase that baseball seem to use a lot when he referred to Willy Aybar as a "natural third baseman".

Who is anybody a natural at any position? Is this some sort of evolutionary change in humans?

2005-09-11 11:04:25
12.   Eric Enders
Oh wait, I forgot I was going to address #3... what is it about Russell Martin that makes everybody so hot to move him to another position? He would have zero value as a first baseman. Zilch.
2005-09-11 11:11:02
13.   King of the Hobos
12 To keep Navarro. Other problems are brought up with Loney in the picture
2005-09-11 11:11:02
14.   Bob Timmermann
According to the RIOT number site, even though the Dodgers and Giants have the same record and the DBacks have a percentage point lead for second, only the Giants could go to the playoffs by running the table by winning all their remaining games.

I think this is because the DBacks and Dodgers have fewer games left with the Padres than the Giants do.

The Padres magic number is 15.

2005-09-11 11:11:40
15.   werthgagne31
12-- no not move him to 1b.
i expect martin to be an obp machine that needs to be in the lineup EVERYDAY, and catchers need time off behind the plate more than any other position, and to me tracy or any manager that i can think of don't give their starting catcher enough time off probably because their backup catcher sucks, well with martin and navarro we won't have a catcher that sucks.
so what i'm saying is have choi start at 1b against ALL righthanded pitchers as well as SOME lefthanded pitcher, and give martin plenty of time off from behind the plate but keep his bat in the lineup by playing him at 1b, and this way you give navarro plenty of playing time.
2005-09-11 11:12:44
16.   King of the Hobos
For nate, Gigantor is finally pitching now in the 4th, after Bergmann, Hughes, and Halama have given up 5 runs
2005-09-11 11:18:48
17.   Eric Enders
OK, I understand. But I still believe that Martin will not hit enough to be anything more than a stopgap first baseman, a la Phillips.

He'll get on base more than Phillips does, but there is no reason to think he will have the kind of power expected of a 1B.

2005-09-11 11:22:35
18.   werthgagne31
12--i must not be a good explainer of what i mean.
i think martin is our future starting catcher, and i believe in giving the starting catchers days off from behind the plate more often than they get,and i believe martin's offensive production is going to be too valuable to be taken out of the lineup, so since choi apparently can't hit some or all lefthanded pitchers, 1b would be the ferfect place to put martin when you give him days off from behind the plate, and as a result you keep both catchers fresh.

does that make sense.

2005-09-11 11:23:55
19.   Bob Timmermann
Which of these teams will finish with a better record than the Dodgers:


2005-09-11 11:31:41
20.   Eric Enders
Yes, it does make sense, with the caveat that playing somebody who is primarily a catcher 162 games a year sounds like a strange way of keeping them fresh. Did we learn nothing from the annual Lo Duca fade?

Catchers, as a species, wear down in the second half from overuse. (Go check the annual ESPN splits if you doubt.) IMO, catchers need to be given days off that are actually, you know, days off.

Having Martin play 1B on days he doesn't catch would benefit neither him (for fatigue reasons) nor the Dodgers (for not-hitting-enough reasons).

I think the ideal thing to do would be have Martin and Navarro split the catching duties 50-50, without screwing around at other positions.

But I can see where you're coming from; at least you're thinking outside the box.

2005-09-11 11:38:30
21.   Eric Enders
By the way, I've been working on a Dodger Top 40 prospects list which I plan on posting here sometime next week. If nate, KOTH, or anyone else has any tips, I'd be appreciative.

I've already got a working list completed, but it's difficult to get a handle on some of the guys from the Raptors and GCL Dodgers whom I've never seen play. On those guys I've got nothing to go on except stats, age, and whatever BA has to say about them.

2005-09-11 11:40:26
22.   dzzrtRatt
19 Only the Giants won't.
2005-09-11 11:42:48
23.   Bob Timmermann
But Larry Bowa says that the Giants are going to catch the Padres!
2005-09-11 12:09:35
24.   CanuckDodger
21 -- Eric, I posted a Dodgers' Top 30 prospects list on another board a few days ago ("30" because Baseball America goes 30 deep for each team when they do their annual Prospect Handbook). The list is primarily geared toward potential, with things like polish, closeness to the majors, injury risk, etc. factoring in as well, but potential is the most important criterion. Edwin Jackson and Dioner Navarro are not on the list because they will certainly end the season having too much MLB experience to qualify as "prospects" by Baseball America's criteria. Players with asterisks after their names are eligible for the Rule 5 draft in December and MUST be protected on the 40-man roster. I welcome anybody's questions or comments.

(01). Joel Guzman, SS*
(02). Chad Billingsley, RHP
(03). Andy LaRoche, 3B*
(04). Russell Martin, C*
(05). Jonathan Broxton, RHP*
(06). Matt Kemp, OF
(07). James Loney, 1B*
(08). Scott Elbert, LHP
(09). Travis Denker, 2B
(10). Chuck Tiffany, LHP
(11). Greg Miller, LHP*
(12). Blake DeWitt, 3B
(13). Justin Orenduff, RHP
(14). Tony Abreu, 2B*
(15). Chin-Lung Hu, SS*
(16). Blake Johnson, RHP
(17). Hong-Chih Kuo, LHP*
(18). Delwyn Young, 2B*
(19). Julio Pimentel, RHP
(20). John Raglani, OF
(21). Justin Ruggiano, OF
(22). Willy Aybar, 3B*
(23). Juan Apodaca, C
(24). Josh Bell, 3B
(25). Kenley Jansen, C
(26). Jose Diaz, RHP*
(27). Trayvon Robinson, OF
(28). John Meloan, RHP
(29). Jamie Hoffmann, OF
(30). Cory Dunlap, 1B

2005-09-11 12:13:39
25.   King of the Hobos
Similar line up today

3B Aybar
1B Choi
SS Robles
2B Kent
RF Cruz
C Navarro
LF Edwards
CF Werth
P Penny

2005-09-11 12:15:59
26.   King of the Hobos
The Padres counter with:

CF Roberts
2B Loretta
1B Fick
RF Giles
LF Klesko
3B Randa
C Hernandez
SS Greene
P Park

Kuo may get a chance to pitch with that 3-4-5, although it's hard to say with Tracy

2005-09-11 12:16:19
27.   Bob Timmermann
So Werth has gone from batting leadoff to batting eighth? And he's also batted cleanup this year.
2005-09-11 12:22:08
28.   Bob Timmermann
Angels had a Hudler's Dream inning in Chicago. Homers by Figgy, GA, and Ersty and a 3-0 lead.

The Angels have no full names.

2005-09-11 12:26:13
29.   Johnson
Do you think Megrew should be on that list? 236 Ks in 195 innings before going down for Tommy John surgery. Looks like he's back pitching and did well in 5 innings in the GCL, though he's apparently had a couple of bad outings at Vero.
2005-09-11 12:27:56
30.   Eric Enders
Nice list, Canuck. FWIW, we agree on:

5 of the top 5

7 of the top 10 (I have DeWitt-Hochevar-Miller instead of Loney-Denker-Tiffany.)

17 of the top 20 (Hochevar-Aybar-Ruggiano instead of Raglani-Johnson-Abreu.)

25 of the top 30 (Hochevar-DeJesus-Pedroza-MederoStultz-Megrew instead of Raglani-Jansen-Robinson-Meloan-Hoffman)

Obviously I'm working under the assumption we'll get the Hochevar deal done.

2005-09-11 12:31:15
31.   Eric Enders
If I have one criticism of the list in #24 it's that you're significantly underrating DeWitt, IMO.
2005-09-11 12:34:30
32.   sanchez101
24. My only significant disagreements with your list is Dunlap all the way down at 30 and Aybar's placement, i think a polished hitter like him deserves to be ahead of guys like Robinson, Bell, Meloan, Jansen who havent seen full season ball yet. Vero Beach really hurts a gap to gap hitter like him.

With Aybar, i dont get him being behind guys that are older, but levels behind him like ruggiano, raglani, and young. Ruggiano and Raglani are outfielders, and young will probably be an outfielder, while Aybar is a 3B/2B with plus defensive abilities.

The BA top 30 will probably look very similar to yours, especially the top 10.

2005-09-11 12:35:29
33.   Vishal
today's angels lineup, in nicknames:

o-cab (OC if that's too long)
supervlad! (vladdy if you're feeling particularly affectionate, or scottish)
erstie (it's cuter with an ie)
bengie is already a nickname isn't it? it would be funny if they called him BM

2005-09-11 12:39:33
34.   King of the Hobos
Something I've been wondering...what do we do with Medero-Stullz, Jansen, and Apodaca next year? Apodaca is the only one with any significant time in A ball, and clearly has no business in Rookie ball anymore, but is he ready for Vero? And are we planning on signing George McDonald? Last time I heard, he wanted to sign with the Dodgers, although he may have gone to school or something

Something I found interesting, according to, both Apodacas in the minors are 5'11" catchers who were born on 7/15

The Nats have used Bergmann, Hughes, Halama, Gigantor(Rauch), Stanton, Rasner, Majewski, and likely now Cordero. They are winning somehow...

2005-09-11 12:41:12
35.   sanchez101
i think finley's nickname at this point is "old man"
2005-09-11 12:41:49
36.   CanuckDodger
29 -- The drubbing Megrew took returning to high A made me wonder if he is not recovering well from the TJ surgery. Sure, small sample size, but I am concerned enough that I could not justify in my mind putting Megrew on the list and excluding somebody else worthy of being on the list based on performance this year. I guess you could say my "injury risk" criterion hurt Megrew's candidacy for the list. Greg Miller and Kuo also would have placed higher on the list if I did not have concerns about their injury risk.
2005-09-11 12:47:41
37.   Eric Enders
o-cab (OC if that's too long)
supervlad! (vladdy if you're feeling particularly affectionate, or scottish)
erstie (it's cuter with an ie)
bengie is already a nickname isn't it? it would be funny if they called him BM
AK "

So, playing for the Angees today we have
- a type of Christmas pudding
- the progenitor of the vampire race
- a life-saving dog
- a much-maligned ex-NYC mayor
- a Devil Rays body part
- the 50th state

What a team.

2005-09-11 12:48:19
38.   CanuckDodger
31 -- DeWitt's excellent Vero Beach debut was encouraging, but I thought DeWitt somewhat underachieved in low A Columbus this year, and the lack of walks seems odd given how much Baseball America has raved about his "polish." I am more tolerant of the lack of walks from Kemp because he is SUPPOSED to be "raw."
2005-09-11 12:50:30
39.   Bob Timmermann
Hudler seems to use "Big Daddy Vladdy" a lot now.
2005-09-11 12:51:37
40.   Eric Enders
You have to admit it's clever and appropriate, given Guerrero's Shawn Kemp-ness.
2005-09-11 12:52:25
41.   sanchez101
I agree with canuckdodger, dewitt season was underwellming. Although compared to the other top prep hiters from 2004, he looks pretty good.
2005-09-11 12:58:18
42.   CanuckDodger
32 -- Dunlap's lack of home run power, while being a first baseman, is troubling. I cut Loney slack in this area because guys with Loney's tall, lanky frame often develop power later than age 21, but Dunlap (age 21, like Loney) is short (for a first baseman), and fat. Dunlap is also not a good defensive first baseman.

Aybar is another guy I should have mentioned in my post above who fell on the list because of injury concerns. I know he was hurt this year, and that likely hurt his power production, but I never did learn exactly what the injury was, or its likelihood of being a recurring problem. I have also read that there are doubts he can play 2B in the majors (2005 Baseball America Prospect Handbook). He will need to hit for power if he has to play 3B in the majors.

2005-09-11 13:03:34
43.   dzzrtRatt
So, what is the anticipated bottom line result of this list?

Based on past history, how many of these 30 can be expected to have at least two full seasons in the major leagues?

Who on this list is likely to be on the 25-man roster for either the Dodgers or someone the Dodgers trade them to next season?

2005-09-11 13:05:21
44.   Eric Enders
DeWitt's season is only underwhelming if you don't account for the fact that he was one of the youngest players in his league (maybe THE youngest, I don't know).

Tearing up the FSL at season's end didn't hurt either.

Agree to disagree...

2005-09-11 13:07:31
45.   CanuckDodger
34 -- I think Apodaca and Medero-Stullz will share catching duties in low A Columbus in 2006. I doubt either one's long-term interests would be well-served by going up to high A Vero Beach. Jansen should be the regular catcher in Ogden in 2006.
2005-09-11 13:08:03
46.   Eric Enders
"Based on past history, how many of these 30 can be expected to have at least two full seasons in the major leagues?"

This is a tough question to answer because I doubt many teams have ever had 30 prospects of this quality in their system at one time.

The Dodgers certainly haven't, at least not since the late 1980s.

2005-09-11 13:10:11
47.   Uncle Miltie
Good lineup except for the fact that Edwards is playing and batting ahead of Werth.
2005-09-11 13:10:12
48.   werthgagne31
what i'd like to know is who in the top 5 on that list will start the season on the dodgers 25 man roster.
i mean if laroche and guzman are ready then why try to get mueller (my pick if laroche isn't ready) and why hang onto izturis.
2005-09-11 13:11:45
49.   sanchez101
34. Dunlap is 6'1 205 according to BA. Ive seen him, he's not fat. I tend to like guys that have a 1:1 walk to k ratio. But the power hasnt been there.

BA seems confused over Aybar, in the 2004 handbook it called Aybar the best infielder in the system, then in 2005 it questioned his defensive abilites. Baseball Prospectus' defensive numbers showed him to be a +8 runs defensively in 03 playing third, and +11 runs defensively playing second last year. Im not sure what to make of this, his its not like he makes a lot of errors and his defense was one of the reasons BP put him on their top 40 list.

2005-09-11 13:14:59
50.   Eric Enders
I'd guess that of the five, LaRoche and Guzman are the only two with no chance of making the opening day roster.

Broxton will probably make it, and Billingsley and Martin have a chance to if they do well in spring training.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-11 13:15:59
51.   King of the Hobos
Bad start for Penny...
2005-09-11 13:18:29
52.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros are being shut out by the Brewers (and Rick Helling) in Milwaukee in the 8th.

If that holds up, that would be the 17th shutout loss for the Astros. The 1966 Dodgers are the only team to have been shutout as many times and make the postseason.

2005-09-11 13:19:02
53.   CanuckDodger
43 -- It is impossible to project just how many of the players on my list will "make it," especially when it comes to the really young players who have yet to reach Double A. Injuries happen, failure to develop further, regression, etc. But as Top 30 lists go, I think the depth in talent the Dodgers have is WAY above what is normal for a major league team's farm system, so it is legitimate to expect a better than normal success rate for these players.

For the 2006 25-man roster, I think Broxton, Kuo, and Aybar have a very good chance of spending most of next season in the majors. And from what I have read, if Tommy Lasorda had his way, Billingsley would be in the majors next year pitching for the Dodgers too.

2005-09-11 13:19:12
54.   Bob Timmermann
Chris Burke homered, so the 1966 Dodgers are safe for now.
2005-09-11 13:19:55
55.   Terry A
Re: DeWitt

A friend of mine works in the administration of DeWitt's high school (Sikeston, MO). Early this spring he told me the Dodgers had asked DeWitt to get contacts -- even though he'd never worn or needed glasses in the past -- and that DeWitt was struggling to adjust to the new eyewear.

I haven't heard from that guy in a while. I think I'll see what the latest buzz is.

2005-09-11 13:20:08
56.   sanchez101
48. I dont think any of the top 5 will start the season on the 25 man roster. The dodgers have been conservative with their minor leaguers this season. I think that they would like to give each of these guys another year in the minors. Of course, if they keep Broxton in the bullpen he could make the roster, but i hope they return him to starting.
2005-09-11 13:20:11
57.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the familiar "Whiz from Westminster" from Vin about Klesko.

So evocative.

And strange.

2005-09-11 13:21:47
58.   Bob Timmermann
Elsewhere in the battle for second through fourth places in the NL West

Colorado leads Arizona 3-1
Giants up on the Cubs 1-0

2005-09-11 13:22:49
59.   Uncle Miltie
The Winstrol user from Westminster reaches on an error by Aybar..
2005-09-11 13:23:20
60.   Uncle Miltie
Now Tracy won't play him
2005-09-11 13:23:22
61.   King of the Hobos
Aybar didn't look pretty there, although any out other than 1st was probably too hard anyways...hopefully Penny can get out with the 1 run
2005-09-11 13:24:34
62.   King of the Hobos
Penny is having some problems...we didn't need this, hopefully Park is just as bad
2005-09-11 13:24:44
63.   Uncle Miltie
That pitch looked pretty good...
2005-09-11 13:26:54
64.   Uncle Miltie
Robles took way too much time to throw to Kent. With Izzy that's a DP.
2005-09-11 13:27:48
65.   King of the Hobos
64 I was thinking the same thing
2005-09-11 13:29:47
66.   CanuckDodger
49 -- I think Dunlap's listed weight of 205 is "charitable," as "official" measurements often are. When Dunlap played in Ogden in 2004, the Raptors' website roster listed him as weighing 230, and I saw a photograph of him in a Raptors uniform. His belly hung over the waistband of his pants. Not a good sign from an athlete who was only 20 at the time.

On Aybar's defense, BA's 2005 Prospect Handbook relied on scouts' impressions when talking about Aybar's defensive deficiencies. Scouts' opinions about defense and sabermetricians' opinions based on various defensive metrics are often in conflict.

2005-09-11 13:29:58
67.   King of the Hobos
The Cubs tied the score 1-1, and the DBacks are now down 5-1.
2005-09-11 13:32:08
68.   King of the Hobos
Nice start for Aybar
2005-09-11 13:32:08
69.   sanchez101
im starting to really like willy aybar
2005-09-11 13:32:42
70.   Bob Timmermann
Should I feel bad that Russ Ortiz got knocked out early? Really, I'm weeping inside.
2005-09-11 13:33:04
71.   Eric L

I just watched the play again on the DVR. It really didn't take that long for Robles to get the throw to Kent.

2005-09-11 13:35:12
72.   Uncle Miltie
71- he lobbed the ball to Kent and that extra time it stayed up in the air cost the Dodgers a DP.
2005-09-11 13:36:15
73.   Bob Timmermann
But how far away was Robles from Kent? You can't really throw it all that hard unless you want to take off Kent's hand.
2005-09-11 13:37:14
74.   Uncle Miltie
Nice hit Kent
2005-09-11 13:37:21
75.   King of the Hobos
Park looks about as good as Penny, that's good news at least
2005-09-11 13:45:30
76.   capdodger
That was weird.
2005-09-11 13:45:49
77.   King of the Hobos
Not the wisest way to get to first for Park. Running really helps
2005-09-11 13:46:57
78.   capdodger
If Park were a Dodger, he would have blown his ACL there.

Penny really needs to throw strikes.

2005-09-11 13:46:57
79.   King of the Hobos
Why does it seem every Dodgers pitcher pitches around Roberts? It's like he's a threat for power or something
2005-09-11 13:51:27
80.   Bob Timmermann
Enjoy the game one and all. Off to the movies.
2005-09-11 13:52:23
81.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
If Gameday accurately depicted where Edwards was hit by that pitch, ouch.
2005-09-11 13:54:21
82.   King of the Hobos
81 Hit him on the side, wasn't exactly a fastball

I have no idea how Park caught that, that looked like a sure hit

2005-09-11 14:00:08
83.   King of the Hobos
Choi is swinging way too hard on balls at his feet
2005-09-11 14:01:41
84.   b1ued0dger
Was Chan Ho Park always this wild?
2005-09-11 14:10:33
85.   b1ued0dger
Two 3-1 counts and not even a walk.
2005-09-11 14:10:46
86.   King of the Hobos
That was an unexciting finish, although with the Padres penfairly tired, this should be easy to score a run
2005-09-11 14:17:24
87.   SiGeg
I missed the first part of the game. How was Chan Ho received at the stadium? Cheers? Boos (stupid, but possible based on past experiences)? Rousing indifference?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

2005-09-11 14:18:03
88.   Uncle Miltie
Aybar is doing a nice job in the leadoff spot and actually has enough speed to score from 2nd on a base hit (unlike Robles)
2005-09-11 14:19:50
89.   Uncle Miltie
Anyone think Repko would have caught that ball?
2005-09-11 14:23:31
90.   sanchez101
just realized that park could still get the win
2005-09-11 14:24:22
91.   b1ued0dger
Doesn't a starting pitcher have to go 5 innings to get a win?
2005-09-11 14:24:24
92.   King of the Hobos
90 How? He didn't pitch 5 innings
2005-09-11 14:24:55
93.   Uncle Miltie
90- nope, a starter needs to get at least 5 innings to get a win.
2005-09-11 14:30:29
94.   b1ued0dger
Why did they hold Navarro? Roberts has a weak arm.
2005-09-11 14:30:51
95.   Uncle Miltie
Why not run on Roberts weak arm? Hoffman isn't the brightest coach around.
2005-09-11 14:31:14
96.   King of the Hobos
94 Navarro has the speed of a catcher
2005-09-11 14:31:23
97.   capdodger
Come one Jayson!!! Do something werthwhile!!!
2005-09-11 14:31:58
98.   b1ued0dger
And Roberts has the arm of a first baseman.
2005-09-11 14:32:38
99.   King of the Hobos
I was just pointing out Hoffman's logic, I would have sent him.
2005-09-11 14:32:45
100.   Uncle Miltie
98- he has a Randy Winn like arm
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-11 14:32:57
101.   King of the Hobos
Wouldn't have mattered
2005-09-11 14:33:31
102.   Uncle Miltie
Werth saves Hoffman
2005-09-11 14:34:22
103.   b1ued0dger
Is Willy Aybar clutch?
2005-09-11 14:34:24
104.   Uncle Miltie
Good bunt by Penny, go Aybar
2005-09-11 14:34:37
105.   Gen3Blue
Roberts was well positioned in shallow center arm or not.

Doesn't matter, Werth got a clutch hit, though that sounds amazing.

2005-09-11 14:35:48
106.   King of the Hobos
If Fick were about an inch shorter, Aybar would have been safe
2005-09-11 14:35:57
107.   Uncle Miltie
I thought Aybar had a hit there
2005-09-11 14:37:56
108.   Uncle Miltie
So is Aybar one of "Tracy's guys"?
2005-09-11 14:41:21
109.   King of the Hobos
That strike out call on Cassidy looked a lot like the ump was doing the point (or whatever it's called)
2005-09-11 14:41:21
110.   Uncle Miltie
Davey Lopes?
2005-09-11 14:41:32
111.   b1ued0dger
I doubt it since he's 0-3 with runners in scoring postion.
2005-09-11 14:42:24
112.   b1ued0dger
111 was for 108
2005-09-11 14:46:47
113.   Uncle Miltie
Nice at bat by Choi
2005-09-11 14:47:04
114.   capdodger
Choi's having a good OBP day.
2005-09-11 14:47:04
115.   oldbear
Penny with 91 pitches through 4 innings.
2005-09-11 14:47:47
116.   Uncle Miltie
Trivia answer: Maury Wills and Davey Lopes
2005-09-11 14:49:00
117.   King of the Hobos
That was UGLY. Tracy with the idiotic play
2005-09-11 14:49:11
118.   Uncle Miltie
Somebody is stealing signs
2005-09-11 14:50:03
119.   oldbear
Did Tracy just call for another hit and run...


2005-09-11 14:50:17
120.   capdodger
But we all know that walks clog up the basepaths.
2005-09-11 14:50:41
121.   King of the Hobos
118 Tracy always does hit n run with Robles and a 2-1 count. Bochy isn't an idiot
2005-09-11 14:50:59
122.   Uncle Miltie
The Dodgers need to change their signs
2005-09-11 14:50:59
123.   oldbear
Let your guys take walks... THere's no need to ever hit and run.

I hate Tracy.

2005-09-11 14:51:39
124.   Uncle Miltie
121- with Choi on base?
2005-09-11 14:51:45
125.   coachjpark
Where would the Dodgers be without Oscar Robles this year? .... says Charlie Steiner...

Probably exactly where they're at right now given that Antonio Perez could have filled in at SS...

Why is Oscar Robles our #3 hitter? Why do you hit and run with your #3 hitter? Why is Hee Seop Choi involved as a runner in a hit & run yet again?


2005-09-11 14:52:01
126.   oldbear
Cassidy would have walked the bases loaded if Tracy would just sit there and do nothing.
2005-09-11 14:52:02
127.   capdodger
118 Or they're just looking at Tracy's tendancies. We all know he likes to Hit-and-Run on 2-1 counts.
2005-09-11 14:52:35
128.   Uncle Miltie
Bases could be loaded (Robles would have walked if he hadn't swung at the pitchout)
2005-09-11 14:52:58
129.   King of the Hobos
124 Yes, and I believe he's done it before

If Hammonds is coming is (it's either him or Breslow), why didn't he come in for Kent?

2005-09-11 14:53:53
130.   capdodger
124 It doesn't matter wether it's Choi, Izturis, or any other Dodger. The one exception might be Kent, because if Kent got thrown out on a play like that, he'd probably have four-letter words for Tracy when he got back to the dugout.
2005-09-11 14:54:09
131.   Uncle Miltie
Good thing they are wasting Hammond early
2005-09-11 14:57:07
132.   King of the Hobos
I would have preferred the grand slam...
2005-09-11 14:57:14
133.   Uncle Miltie
Cruz! (Could have been a GS)
2005-09-11 14:58:05
134.   Uncle Miltie
Does Hammond really think that Cruz can't hit an 80 MPH fastball down the middle?
2005-09-11 14:58:14
135.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, there's Cruz' second RH HR, Bob :)
2005-09-11 14:58:28
136.   Steve
Good to see Chan Ho Park helping to keep the Padres in first.
2005-09-11 14:58:39
137.   Uncle Miltie
Navarro! (He has more power batting right handed)
2005-09-11 14:58:41
138.   King of the Hobos
Good for Navarro, give us a good lead so the bullpen can't blow it. That was an ugly swing though
2005-09-11 14:58:48
139.   capdodger
Cruz ensures that no one will mention Tracy running Choi off of the basepaths and making Robles swing at a pitchout.

Yippie Cruz.
Yippie Navarro.

2005-09-11 14:59:08
140.   Jim Hitchcock
Hammond is being played like an organ.
2005-09-11 14:59:17
141.   Uncle Miltie
It should be 8-3
2005-09-11 14:59:25
142.   King of the Hobos
138 That wasn't as ugly as I thought, not a usual home run swing though
2005-09-11 15:00:21
143.   Uncle Miltie
Great play by Roberts. That was not a Jeter play.
2005-09-11 15:01:38
144.   Tommy Naccarato
Who did we get for Roberts?

Steve, blame it on Tracy again.

2005-09-11 15:02:29
145.   Uncle Miltie
Henri Stanley
2005-09-11 15:03:11
146.   coachjpark
What's ridiculous is that Tracy actually had Jason Phillips getting ready to pinch-hit for Jose Cruz 2 and a half weeks ago because a lefty was on the mound...
2005-09-11 15:03:54
147.   Tommy Naccarato
Uncle Miltie,
I was being critica--again.
2005-09-11 15:03:59
148.   coachjpark
McCourt probably ordered the trade. Why would we ever want Henri Stanley?
2005-09-11 15:04:34
149.   bokonon42
144- Who did we give up for Cruz Jr.? They cain't all be gems.
2005-09-11 15:05:03
150.   Tommy Naccarato
I couldn't agree more about just how confusing of a manager JT is. He was bewildering three years ago.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-11 15:05:44
151.   Uncle Miltie
What ever happened to Tydus Meadows?
2005-09-11 15:05:48
152.   Tommy Naccarato
Hey, go back a couple days ago, and you'll see me screaming to resign him NOW!
2005-09-11 15:06:05
153.   King of the Hobos
151 He was injured and is out for the season
2005-09-11 15:06:12
154.   Tommy Naccarato
What ever happened to Abe Vigoda?
2005-09-11 15:06:17
155.   Icaros
This is a battle of the most unlikely three-hitters ever.
2005-09-11 15:07:17
156.   Uncle Miltie
153- that's a shame. He could have helped Jacksonville in the playoffs. I hope the Dodgers bring him back next year. He really helps protect the young hitters.
2005-09-11 15:07:39
157.   King of the Hobos
155 Fick can be good. It would be better if Eric Young was in the 3 spot like he was for a few games earlier in the season
2005-09-11 15:07:59
158.   Uncle Miltie
Olmedo would not have caught that, though his stomach might have.
2005-09-11 15:08:08
159.   Eric L

I believe Abe was traded for a PTBNL and Dodger fans are still crying about it.

2005-09-11 15:09:42
160.   coachjpark
Cruz for PTBNL
2005-09-11 15:09:56
161.   King of the Hobos
Has the PTBNL been named in the Thurston deal? I'm not even sure it matters now with the minor league season over
2005-09-11 15:10:04
162.   bokonon42
152- No, I know. I'm just saying, Roberts for Stanley was a garbage trade, but anybody who makes more than a couple of trades is going to mix in a garbage one. Giving up half a year of Roberts (he was a free agent in the off season, right?) turned out bad, but wasn't an on-its-face stupid thing to do.
2005-09-11 15:10:12
163.   capdodger
148 That trade had the look of a favor to a player and a way to clear a spot on the active roster.
2005-09-11 15:10:24
164.   coachjpark
Probably a gift from Boston to return the favor for the Dave Roberts trade last year....
2005-09-11 15:10:25
165.   Icaros
I'm not saying Fick and Robles are bad players, but they're not three-hitters (well I guess literally they are).
2005-09-11 15:12:27
166.   King of the Hobos
162 He wasn't a FA. Boston traded him for Jay Payton, Ramon Vazquez, and a minor league pitcher. Seemed like a steal for the Red Sox, although Payton is now an Athletic, and Vazquez is an Indian (traded for Cora)
2005-09-11 15:13:32
167.   Icaros
162 Roberts wasn't free. Boston traded him for Jay Payton and that sorry backup infielder whose name I can't remember right now.
2005-09-11 15:13:43
168.   Uncle Miltie
Werth might have swung at ball 4.
2005-09-11 15:13:46
169.   Tommy Naccarato
Roberts would have been content with signing back withLA at the end of the year. He even said this on the way out of Petco right after the trade.

For what its worth, Agassi is holding his own against Federer. Go old guy!

2005-09-11 15:14:43
170.   Tommy Naccarato
Let me correct that, he more or less intimated that, and frankly, I don't think a lot of teams would have been that interested in signing him either.
2005-09-11 15:15:14
171.   Icaros
Since DePodesta has already admitted publicly that he'd like the Roberts move back (Gammons article), I think it's time to stop whining about it.
2005-09-11 15:15:54
172.   King of the Hobos
Greene stole that from Aybar, very nice play
2005-09-11 15:15:58
173.   Uncle Miltie
Crap Aybar looks slow
2005-09-11 15:16:09
174.   Tommy Naccarato
I thought he was going to be free. Good catch of our obvious cluelessness! :)
2005-09-11 15:17:50
175.   Tommy Naccarato
I'll forget it here. If Paulie owned-up to it, its a dead issue.

Damn that Roberts is a selfless ballplayer!

2005-09-11 15:19:17
176.   coachjpark
Anyone have a scouting report on Matt Kemp? Is he a legit prospect? He has 27 bombs for Vero Beach this year....
2005-09-11 15:20:29
177.   Uncle Miltie
Vin just said "Brad [Penny] can fill a doorway...I mean he's REALLY big"
2005-09-11 15:21:13
178.   Icaros
177 Did Vin say that or was he quoting Alyssa?
2005-09-11 15:22:35
179.   Uncle Miltie
176- 5 tool players, great build 6'4" 210+, pretty good arm, decent speed (stole a lot of bases but isn't that fast), great power, excellent bat speed, poor plate discipline, didn't have the grades to go to a division 1 school.
2005-09-11 15:22:47
180.   King of the Hobos
176 He's a 5 tool prospect who started the year on the DL, and started slowly, otherwise he could be with Laroche in Jacksonville. Can play all 3 OF positions. Biggest problem is his Ks and K/BB, although he's improved as the season progressed. Not sure how strong his arm is. A BA report is probably far better than this, as I've never even seen him play...
2005-09-11 15:23:04
181.   Steve
Roberts wasn't intimidated in the American League by that nasty Designated Hitter rule.
2005-09-11 15:28:03
182.   Tommy Naccarato
I see your still all filled up with that natural hate you love to manifest.
2005-09-11 15:28:31
183.   Linkmeister
37 Getting here way late, but Eric, Hawai'i is the 50th state. Alaska (AK) is the 49th.

(Gotta keep in good standing with the HVCB.)

2005-09-11 15:28:54
184.   Uncle Miltie
Wonderboy (in San Diego) makes an error
2005-09-11 15:29:41
185.   Uncle Miltie
That was a Mike Edwards like play
2005-09-11 15:31:20
186.   Uncle Miltie
Edwards walks!
2005-09-11 15:32:01
187.   King of the Hobos
Randa's being punished, as I see no other reason to bring Burroughs in
2005-09-11 15:34:09
188.   Icaros
187 Double switch.
2005-09-11 15:35:16
189.   King of the Hobos
Let's get Myrow up there to make it a Indy League inning (assuming Werth doesn't make out)
2005-09-11 15:36:01
190.   Uncle Miltie
Didn't Giles make the lsat out? Randa would have been up 2nd.

Werth chokes.

2005-09-11 15:36:04
191.   Uncle Miltie
Didn't Giles make the last out? Randa would have been up 2nd.

Werth chokes.

2005-09-11 15:36:37
192.   Steve
The "pregnant wife defense" being our model of Christian Charity here on Dodger Thoughts.
2005-09-11 15:36:40
193.   King of the Hobos
187 They could put Johnson in LF, or Olivo behind the plate. At least then they get a legitimate hitter
2005-09-11 15:36:56
194.   Uncle Miltie
Bring in Osoria
2005-09-11 15:37:08
195.   Gen3Blue
176. Kemp is young--I think 20. He is big,athletic and I think his arm is pretty good. He has power potential unlimited-like Guzman, but I doubt anyone thought he would hit .300 at this point. With him, and Hoffman( and a few whose names I forget) we finally have some outfielders coming.
2005-09-11 15:37:14
196.   Icaros
190 No, Hernandez did. Randa batted right before him.
2005-09-11 15:37:33
197.   King of the Hobos
190 You missed the 6th inning
2005-09-11 15:38:00
198.   Uncle Miltie
196- gameday is screwed up. Thanks
2005-09-11 15:39:09
199.   Icaros
193 Whatever, that's what managers usually do. He wasn't punishing Randa.
2005-09-11 15:40:21
200.   Uncle Miltie
Burroughs is horrible
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-11 15:41:20
201.   King of the Hobos
195 Raglani and Ruggiano are the other 2 who have done something above Rookie ball. Paul is sorta a prospect. I have no idea who he is, but Ryan Carter was Columbus' best hitter in the second half, although he's old (is he a prospect?). Others include Pedroza, Locke, Robinson, Van Slyke, Godwin, and Richmond

It sure is nice to have something in the OF in the minors, things weren't looking so good when Gutierrez was traded

2005-09-11 15:41:57
202.   Icaros
200 You'll get no argument there.
2005-09-11 15:42:12
203.   Gen3Blue
I admit I always liked Roberts-but really-is he unstoppable against most teams.?
2005-09-11 15:43:24
204.   Marty
200 He does have a world series ring. A Little League one, but a ring.
2005-09-11 15:43:34
205.   Icaros
203 Imagine how unstoppable he'd be against LA if he played for the Giants.
2005-09-11 15:44:30
206.   Marty
Werth likes to run with his arms straight down. It looks really goofy.
2005-09-11 15:45:29
207.   Uncle Miltie
204- he likes to cuss after he strikes out and it's not hard to hear him
2005-09-11 15:45:43
208.   Steve
Imagine how unstoppable he would be if he were any good.
2005-09-11 15:45:45
209.   Gen3Blue
201 thank you, I was about to say "the Italian names starting with R." Paul showed signs of beggining to hit at the end of the season, and I think he has the tools to make him an all star if he can hit .270.
2005-09-11 15:45:48
210.   Icaros
204 I think he has two of those. Didn't they go back and award Long Beach the year they lost because the other team had some young adults?
2005-09-11 15:46:00
211.   capdodger
Oh boy. Four games against Balco.

I think the question to ask is if the Dodgers will spoil for the Giants or will the Giants will spoil for the Dodgers. Or perhaps we'll find out that both teams are completely and totally curdled.

2005-09-11 15:46:57
212.   capdodger
Scrappy pop-out there. Did you see him running it out?
2005-09-11 15:46:58
213.   Icaros
What do I have to do to see Kuo pitch?
2005-09-11 15:47:03
214.   Marty
I fail to see the love for Roberts. He didn't do much in L.A. except steal a few bases and pull a few hamstrings. Boston couldn't wait to get rid of him. He's got no arm. What is it?
2005-09-11 15:47:44
215.   Uncle Miltie
Nice piece of hitting by Aybar
2005-09-11 15:48:33
216.   King of the Hobos
Is this a compliment? Tracy said Aybar has "Very competitive skills," is that like professional, scrappy, or savvy?

Aybar is 2-4, but with a little more speed, and with just about any other SS, he's 4-4. Greene is amazing on those balls in the hole between short and third

2005-09-11 15:48:51
217.   Gen3Blue
yeah-Roberts would be a nightmare either way.
2005-09-11 15:49:24
218.   Icaros
Choi rules!
2005-09-11 15:49:48
219.   King of the Hobos
213 Wait patiently for Fick-Giles-Klesko, which happens to be what the 8th inning looks like
2005-09-11 15:51:01
220.   Icaros
219 I'm afraid he'll use Schmoll instead.
2005-09-11 15:51:38
221.   Uncle Miltie
216- maybe working the count, hitting and running- skills that Robles has
2005-09-11 15:53:54
222.   Uncle Miltie
Oxspring should stay with the curve
2005-09-11 15:54:05
223.   Steve
How could you ever use "afraid" and "Schmoll"
in the same sentence? :)
2005-09-11 15:55:08
224.   sanchez101
i cant see any reason why aybar shouldnt play everyday for the rest of the season
2005-09-11 15:55:12
225.   King of the Hobos
Gurnick said in the notes: Tracy said he's also still hopeful of getting Wilson Alvarez in a game for two reasons -- because he might help Tracy win a game, and because Alvarez has already announced his retirement effective after this season.

Is "Tracy winning a game" different than the Dodgers winning a game? Because it sounds like it

2005-09-11 15:56:01
226.   Icaros
223 I'd be afraid to bat against Schmoll, myself. I'm right-handed.
2005-09-11 15:56:17
227.   Gen3Blue
It probably a good thing to have outfield prospects with Monopoly and the richest human whose only played one full season!
2005-09-11 15:56:44
228.   Icaros
I was even more afraid that he'd stick with Gio.
2005-09-11 15:56:48
229.   Uncle Miltie
Kuo is being wasted
2005-09-11 15:58:04
230.   Icaros
Seriously, why is Kuo in LA when his real team would use him?
2005-09-11 15:58:43
231.   Steve
re: Kuo's arm

Could this just be a strange way of shutting him down for the year? Had he stayed in AA in the playoffs, he would have pitched. Could they have just decided to just bring him up and let him watch?

2005-09-11 15:59:42
232.   Icaros
231 He's hardly pitched any innings this year, though. I'd think he needs the work.
2005-09-11 15:59:52
233.   Gen3Blue
226 I'm with you-its only the teams that put in lefties that scare me.
2005-09-11 16:00:36
234.   King of the Hobos
228 I hate to say this, but after Wunsch, Carrara has been by far our best "LOOGY"
2005-09-11 16:01:05
235.   Steve
I'm just idly speculating. It's likely the same reason that Jason Phillips plays first. Random chance.
2005-09-11 16:01:58
236.   capdodger
Maybe we'll get Kuo in the 9th?
2005-09-11 16:02:22
237.   Icaros
235 I know. These questions are like asking, "Why are we here?"
2005-09-11 16:03:22
238.   capdodger
There seems to be alot of random chance running the Dodgers this year. I'm beginning to believe the Crazy-8-ball theory to explain it.
2005-09-11 16:03:59
239.   capdodger
er.... I mean Magic 8 ball.
2005-09-11 16:04:58
240.   Steve
The Dodgers have left 12 men on base, though I don't hear much complaining about it.
2005-09-11 16:05:04
241.   Icaros
239 It's been crazier than magic this year.
2005-09-11 16:05:57
242.   Xeifrank
Been offline most of the weekend, but would just like to pay tribute to the person who lit the fire under Jim Tracy's bum and got him to start Choi and bat him 2nd and to leadoff Aybar. Kidding aside, this is a joke. He starts Phillips in the most important game of the year, we lose! Then faced with being 8 games out and most likely out of the running he decides to start Choi and Aybar??? Crazy!
vr, Xei
2005-09-11 16:07:14
243.   Tommy Naccarato
"I'm just idly speculating."

I highly doubt that.

2005-09-11 16:07:48
244.   Xeifrank
238. Yes, Sox have smartball, Angels have smallball, A's have Moneyball, and the Dodgers under manager Jim Tracy have "Crazy 8 Ball".

Tracy: Do I sit my favorite player Jason Phillips today?
Crazy 8 Ball: Yes!
(Tracy's face turns red!)
vr, Xei

2005-09-11 16:08:07
245.   King of the Hobos
Navarro missed the cycle by a triple. I have no interest in seeing it happen, unless they string a bunch of hits together this inning
2005-09-11 16:08:27
246.   Tommy Naccarato
So anyone want to take a guess what the real attendence was compared to the fake attendence they'll announce?
2005-09-11 16:09:58
247.   Uncle Miltie
Nice Hoffman
2005-09-11 16:10:02
248.   King of the Hobos
Not Hoffman's wisest play, but Myrow must be extremely excited
2005-09-11 16:10:05
249.   Icaros
Klesko can't catch and Navarro can't run. Good to know.
2005-09-11 16:10:17
250.   Xeifrank
#41 whoever that was just thrown out at home needs to abide by the no more than two carry ons next time he tries to score from first on a double. Talk about lumbering.
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-11 16:10:36
251.   Marty
244 Actually, it would say "Signs point to yes"

Unfortunately, when he asks the 8-ball about Choi, it always replys "Ask again later"

2005-09-11 16:11:40
252.   Steve
And when he asks about Bradley, it replies "OK"
2005-09-11 16:12:26
253.   capdodger
Maybe we can use this link to forecast JT's moves?

2005-09-11 16:12:39
254.   Uncle Miltie
Did they get Myrow the ball? Maybe he can run up and take it now that Werth struck out.
2005-09-11 16:12:41
255.   King of the Hobos
252 "As long as he's black"
2005-09-11 16:14:52
256.   Uncle Miltie
I asked it if Bradley will be back next year..
It replied "As I see it yes"
2005-09-11 16:18:15
257.   Icaros
256 Ask it if Tracy will be back.
2005-09-11 16:19:10
258.   Uncle Miltie
Nice inning by Brazoban
2005-09-11 16:19:10
259.   Eric L
I thought that Yhency couldn't pitch in a non-save situation..

Or has that changed since he isn't the closer anymore?

What does the crystal ball say about it?

2005-09-11 16:19:57
260.   Gen3Blue
Booyah! Hey nice symmetry, wasn't Hoffman making up for somebody he shouldn't have held an inning or two ago.
2005-09-11 16:21:11
261.   Steve
259 -- It says "People Have No Idea What They're Talking About"
2005-09-11 16:21:19
262.   Uncle Miltie
257- "Yes"
259- "My sources say No"
2005-09-11 16:21:59
263.   capdodger
257 I got, "My sources say no."

Hmm... I wonder if Depo has programmed that thing.

2005-09-11 16:23:32
264.   Icaros
I'm going with capdodger's.
2005-09-11 16:26:37
265.   Fern
The bullpen next year is gonna be amazing, and incredibly young.

Dessens? (or some other long man)


What to do with so many young, solid arms?

2005-09-11 16:32:57
266.   fanerman
265 - Hold leads, hopefully.
2005-09-11 16:33:03
267.   Gen3Blue
I'm gonna hate to see us trade a lot of young talent,but I'm afraid it must be done.
Hey, we take a series from SF, we take one fron San Diego, and why are we still in bad shape? Because the Rockies have been beating the tar out of us--thats why!!
2005-09-11 16:34:37
268.   fanerman
I just want to finish ahead of the giants and snakes now.
2005-09-11 16:47:45
269.   werthgagne31
do we really want wunsch back next year, loogys just take up a spot on the 25 man roster and are only good for 1 or 2 hitters at a time.
2005-09-11 16:51:09
270.   CanuckDodger
Dessens supposedly wants to be a starter. Since I can't imagine the Dodgers guaranteeing that, Dessens may walk.
2005-09-11 16:52:15
271.   Eric Enders
Well, except Wunsch is a good pitcher who does not necessarily have to be a LOOGY. Haven't we had this discussion before about not blaming the player for the way the manager misuses him?

Anyway, Wunsch has already been invited to 2006 spring training, so I guess that answers that question. I suspect whomever pitches better in the spring between he and Kuo will make the team.

2005-09-11 16:55:09
272.   Eric Enders
Is the free agency compensation system loopy enough to give us a draft pick or two if Dessens gets away, I wonder? He could theoretically be a type A after the good season he's had. The Elias system for typing free agents is positively insane, so it's possible.
2005-09-11 17:13:57
273.   Eric Enders
Doing some actual research, Dessens was a type B last year. With his strong season, he may have bumped himself up to type A.

Assuming we offer him arbitration, we'd get 2 draft picks in return if he's a Type A and one pick if he's a Type B.

Getting 2 first round draft picks for Dessens would be a steal, especially with our bullpen looking pretty full for next year. Of course, he could always accept arbitration, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Here's the complete list of last year's FAs and what types they were:

Type A (Compensation: Sandwich pick and signing team's first round pick, if that pick is #16-30; otherwise, sandwich pick and signing team's second round pick.)

Moises Alou (ChC), Wilson Alvarez (LA), Tony Batista (Mon), Carlos Beltran (Hou), Adrian Beltre (LA), Armando Benitez (Fla), Jeromy Burnitz (Col), Orlando Cabrera (Bos), Miguel Cairo (NYY), Vinny Castilla (Col), Royce Clayton (Col), Roger Clemens (Hou), Rheal Cormier (Phi), Carlos Delgado (Tor), J.D. Drew (Atl), Cal Eldred (StL), Steve Finley (LA), Nomar Garciaparra (ChC), Mark Grudzielanek (ChC), Chris Hammond (Oak), Dustin Hermanson (SF), Richard Hidalgo (NYM), Jeff Kent (Hou), Steve Kline (StL), Corey Koskie (Min), Al Leiter (NYM), Esteban Loaiza (NYY), Derek Lowe (Bos), Matt Mantei (Ari), Edgar Martinez (Sea), Pedro Martinez (Bos), Mike Matheny (StL), Kent Mercker (ChC), Dan Miceli (Hou), Damian Miller (Oak), Kevin Millwood (Phi), Matt Morris (StL), Jeff Nelson (Tex), Magglio Ordonez (CWS), Russ Ortiz (Atl), Carl Pavano (Fla), Troy Percival (Ana), Odalis Perez (LA), Placido Polanco (Phi), Brad Radke (Min), Joe Randa (KC), Edgar Renteria (StL), Richie Sexson (Ari), Paul Shuey (LA), Jason Varitek (Bos), Omar Vizquel (Cle), David Wells (SD), Woody Williams (StL), Scott Williamson (Bos), Jaret Wright (Atl).

Type B (Compensation: Signing team's first round pick, if that pick is #16-30. Otherwise, signing team's second round pick.)

Terry Adams (Bos), Antonio Alfonseca (Atl), Roberto Alomar (CWS), Rich Aurilia (SD), Danny Bautista (Ari), Dave Burba (SF), Matt Clement (ChC), Craig Counsell (Mil), Deivi Cruz (SF), Mike DeJean (NYM), Elmer Dessens (LA), Brook Fordyce (TB), Chad Fox (Fla), Alex Gonzalez (SD), Juan Gonzalez (KC), Cristian Guzman (Min), Jose Hernandez (LA), Orlando Hernandez (NYY), Todd Jones (Phi), Barry Larkin (Cin), Curtis Leskanic (Bos), Cory Lidle (Phi), Jon Lieber (NYY), Jose Lima (LA), Tino Martinez (TB), Brent Mayne (LA), Doug Mirabelli (Bos), Greg Myers (Tor), Hideo Nomo (LA), John Olerud (NYY), Antonio Osuna (SD), Todd Pratt (Phi), Steve Reed (Col), B.J. Surhoff (Bal), Jose Valentin (CWS), Robin Ventura (LA), Ron Villone (Sea), Todd Walker (ChC), Gabe White (Cin), Dan Wilson (Sea), Paul Wilson (Cin), Esteban Yan (Det), Eric Young (Tex), Gregg Zaun (Tor).

Type C (Compensation: Supplemental pick between second and third rounds, unless the player has been a free agent before, in which case no compensation.)

Sandy Alomar Jr. (CWS), Carlos Baerga (Ari), Kris Benson (NYM), Henry Blanco (Min), Ricky Bottalico (NYM), Jermaine Dye (Oak), Shawn Estes (Col), Julio Franco (Atl), Troy Glaus (Ana), Todd Greene (Col), Ben Grieve (ChC), John Halama (TB), Roberto Hernandez (Phi), Todd Hollandsworth (ChC), Travis Lee (NYY), Al Levine (Det), John Mabry (StL), Ramon Martinez (ChC), Jim Mecir (Oak), Eric Milton (Phi), Mike Redmond (Fla), Desi Relaford (KC), Rudy Seanez (Fla), Aaron Sele (Ana), Ismael Valdez (Fla), Todd Van Poppel (Cin), Bob Wickman (CWS), Tony Womack (StL).

Yes, you read that correctly: Miguel Cairo was a type A free agent.

2005-09-11 17:34:04
274.   King of the Hobos
And Ledee wasn't even a type C (we signed him before the arbitration deadline because we gave up nothing)

About Dessens, wasn't he quoted saying he was interested in coming back? It's his say, I don't see DePo going for the buyout over the (cheap) option.

As for Kuo, if Wunsch beats him out, could we then make him a starter again? Send him to Jax to build up endurance. I know it's an injury risk, but he could be scary starting if he starts as well as he relieves

2005-09-11 17:37:33
275.   King of the Hobos
The Raptors game is over. Cory Wade was...far from good. Alvarez, Pfeiffer, and Klusman weren't so good either. In the end, Orem won 9-1, the one run came off Juan Rivera's homer
2005-09-11 17:46:49
276.   Eric Enders
WTF? I was planning on listening, I checked this morning and it said the game was at 9:00 EDT. Or, 15 minutes from now.

That site has a lot of potential, but some serious quality control issues.

2005-09-11 18:03:28
277.   Steve
I guess Minnesota should have stood in bed.
2005-09-11 18:32:26
278.   King of the Hobos
276 I had the exact same problem. I decided to go check for line ups (I couldn't remember if it said 9 or 8:30). I then see that Ogden never had a chance. So ends any chance of Raptors Thoughts until next year in July at the earliest.
2005-09-11 19:32:30
279.   Bob Timmermann
So are the Giants still going to go past the Padres in the standings?

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.