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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Who's Above Average?
2005-09-13 15:28
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

Southern League Championship Series - Game 1

* * *

The Hardball Times now offers in-season ERA+ stats, or ERA "measured against the league average, and adjusted for ballpark factors," with 100 as average. Here are the current 2005 Dodger rankings:

ERA+ Player
164 Gagne
144 Dessens
129 Sanchez
126 Thompson
120 Lowe
115 Penny
102 Carrara
102 Weaver
100 Osoria
97 Wunsch
93 Perez
83 Houlton
78 Brazoban
75 Alvarez
73 Erickson
72 Schmoll
63 Broxton
61 Jackson
53 Carlyle
8 Kuo

You can also see one indicator of which pitchers have been the luckiest by subtracting their expected Fielding Independent ERA (xFIP) from their actual ERA. Here are the Dodgers, luckiest to unluckiest:

FIP-ERA Player
0.85 Erickson (that's right - his fielders have helped him)
0.74 Dessens
0.63 Osoria
0.59 Alvarez
0.46 Lowe (that's right - his fielders have helped him)
0.30 Sanchez
0.17 Weaver
-0.12 Carrara
-0.12 Houlton
-0.26 Thompson
-0.28 Wunsch
-0.32 Penny
-0.35 Gagne
-0.67 Perez
-1.00 Brazoban
-1.36 Schmoll
-2.25 Jackson
-2.41 Carlyle
-4.41 Broxton
-33.02 Kuo (that's right - his ERA would only be 21, not 54)

Comments (454)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-13 15:39:27
1.   Yakface
I havent been able to see Kuo pitch yet due to broadcast restrictions, how's he look out there?
2005-09-13 15:40:24
2.   Jon Weisman
Kinda hard to make a judgment after only 1/3 of an inning.
2005-09-13 15:41:16
3.   Yakface
How did he do in that third?
2005-09-13 15:43:06
4.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger Game Callback

September 13, 1913

Hippo Vaughn threw a 2-hit shutout as the Chicago Cubs had little trouble with a visiting Brooklyn squad at West Side Park, winning 4-0. The loss dropped Brooklyn to 58-74, fifth place in the NL and 31 games behind the first place Giants.

Vaughn, who had a great season for the New York Yankees at age 22 in 1910 going 13-11 with a 1.83 ERA, had hit the skids and had been traded to the Washington Senators and then sent to Kansas City in the American Association, before the Cubs picked him in August of 1913. He would go on to win 154 games for the Cubs in nine seasons and would gain fame in 1917 when he and Cincinnati pitcher Fred Toney threw matching nine-inning no-hitters. Vaughn gave up a hit in the 10th and lost the game.

On September 13, Vaughn was nearly unhittable. Brooklyn first baseman Jake Daubert got a double in the third inning when Frank Schulte lost the ball in the sun. Brooklyn pitcher Frank Allen had a harmless single later.

Allen gave up just four hits, but the Cubs were able to put them to good use in the third inning. Catcher Jimmy Archer led off with a single. Vaughn popped out. Then center fielder Tommy Leach walked. Allen threw a wild pitch to move up both runners. Cubs second baseman Johnny Evers (also the manager) popped up, but Allen walked Schulte to load the bases with two outs.

Third baseman Art Phelan, filling in for the suspended Heine Zimmerman, then lined a single to right to score two runs and move Schulte to third. With first baseman Vic Saier up, the Cubs pulled off a delayed double steal and Schulte stole home to make it 3-0. Brooklyn catcher Lew McCarty's throw sailed into center and Phelan went to third. Brooklyn center fielder Casey Stengel tried to throw out Phelan, but his throw got away and Phelan scored to make it 4-0.

That was all the help Vaughn would need. He would strike out 10 and not allow any runners past first base the last six innings.

Brooklyn finished the season with a 65-84 record and in sixth place, 34 ½ games behind the Giants. It would be the last season for Bill Dahlen as manager, who disappointed the ownership by piloting a bad team in the first season of operation for Ebbets Field. Brooklyn drew 347,000 fans to its new park, over 100,000 more than it drew in 1912.

The 1913 squad had some anomalies. Brooklyn had the second highest batting average in the NL (.270) and the third highest slugging percentage (.363), yet finished seventh in runs scored. Daubert led the NL with a .350 batting average and was third in OBP at .405. Zack Wheat batted .301. No Dodgers regular batted lower than .266. The team was last place in walks.

Veteran lefthander Nap Rucker led the pitching staff with a 2.87 ERA and a 14-15 record. Pat Ragan was 15-18 with a 3.77 ERA. The Dodgers also had a pitcher who went by the name of Mysterious Walker, who was 1-3 in 11 games. In his five years in the majors, Mysterious was not very mysterious to opposing batters, going 7-23 with an ERA of 4.00.

With a new stadium, Brooklyn owner Charles Ebbets was going to need a new manager. And he would find one across town in Wilbert Robinson.

Thanks to the Chicago Tribune, New York Times, Baseball-reference, and Retrosheet.

2005-09-13 15:44:25
5.   DougS
I take it we may disregard the ratings for Broxton as well as Kuo on account of sample size.
2005-09-13 15:49:31
6.   Steve
Weaver -- 102.


2005-09-13 15:58:37
7.   Midwest Blue
I wish we could pick-up a Hippo Vaughn off the scrap heap.

Heck, I'd settle for Potbelly Pig Vaughn.

2005-09-13 15:58:44
8.   tracyapologist
Kuo didnt look very similar to the way i saw him pitch in Jacksonville. He threw his curve ball a lot more, i dont know why.
Osoria is another guy that should be discounted because of small sample size, but could be usefull as a middle reliever next year.
2005-09-13 15:59:02
9.   King of the Hobos
As this will soon become Suns Thoughts more than likely:

Donavon CF
Abreu 2B
Weber RF
Laroche 3B
Loney 1B
Martin C
Guzman SS
Ruggiano LF

And Ryu is starting for the Jaxx, not Nolasco

2005-09-13 16:00:12
10.   Jon Weisman
5 - more than those two, probably

4 - Was the anomaly caused by low RISP or low OBP???

2005-09-13 16:03:52
11.   King of the Hobos
Here's the Suns video

2005-09-13 16:07:39
12.   still bevens
Can we get a conversation going about just why in the hell Jayson Werth comes to bat with 'Every Planet We Reach Is Dead' by the Gorillaz? Its like, the un-toughest song Ive ever heard in my life. Does he get to pick?
2005-09-13 16:10:03
13.   King of the Hobos
Billingsley blows the perfect game with the first batter, 4 pitch walk
2005-09-13 16:12:47
14.   King of the Hobos
Stolen base, and a bloop hit put the Diamond-Jaxx on top. Still no outs.
2005-09-13 16:18:59
15.   King of the Hobos
3 run blast for Brandon Sing. Billingsley looks terrible
2005-09-13 16:20:41
16.   Howard Fox
15 trade him
2005-09-13 16:28:37
17.   DaveP
billingsley got out of the 1st inning with only 44 pitches :) no worries.
2005-09-13 16:29:22
18.   King of the Hobos
Billinsley struck out the pitcher to end it. He made 44 pitches and allowed 4 runs. Had 3 walks and 2 strike outs. He was clearly fatigued, he made sometthing around 115 pitches last start
2005-09-13 16:30:14
19.   Howard Fox
18 trade him while he is worth something
2005-09-13 16:35:09
20.   DougS
18They allow the pitcher to hit in AA? I thought the DH was universal throughout the minors.
2005-09-13 16:38:13
21.   Marty
Hippo Vaughn. Was he a little guy?

Seeing Gagne on the top of that list just reminds me of a big reason we tanked this year, but it rarely gets talked about.

2005-09-13 16:38:13
22.   King of the Hobos
Abreu and Weber both double down the line past 1st, 4-1. One out with Laroche up
2005-09-13 16:39:44
23.   King of the Hobos
Now Laroche doubles, they're just like the big league club =)
2005-09-13 16:43:00
24.   DaveP
Laroche hit the top of the fence in center field.

Both pitchers are terrible tonight.

2005-09-13 16:44:26
25.   tracyapologist
how many games in this series?
2005-09-13 16:44:44
26.   DaveP
I don't get to watch the rest of the fireworks. Off to AYSO girls soccer practice. and in case you're wondering, I'm not practicing. my daughter plays..
2005-09-13 16:44:57
27.   b1ued0dger
25 5
2005-09-13 16:45:40
28.   King of the Hobos
20 In AA and AAA, the pitcher bats when an American minor league club plays. This is the Cubs and Dodgers, both NL. Birmingham belongs to the White Sox, so the DH was used
2005-09-13 16:48:04
29.   dzzrtRatt
Billingsley should change his name to Nap Rucker. He'd be unbeatable.
2005-09-13 16:48:06
30.   King of the Hobos
This time Billingsley strikes out the lead off hitter, albeit on a full count
2005-09-13 16:52:09
31.   King of the Hobos
Line drive over the short wall for Matt Craig, 6-2 Jaxx
2005-09-13 16:52:30
32.   dzzrtRatt

CLEVELAND (AP) -- Indians reliever Arthur Rhodes has left the club because of a family illness and will miss the rest of Cleveland's season, a blow to baseball's best bullpen and the club's playoff chances.

``It's going to be tough without him,'' closer Bob Wickman said. ``He has been huge for us all year. We're definitely going to miss him.''

Rhodes was in his first season with the Indians, who acquired him in a trade last December with Pittsburgh for outfielder Matt Lawton. The left-hander didn't pitch because of the personal matter from Aug. 2 to Sept. 3.

2005-09-13 17:04:35
33.   King of the Hobos
Adolfo Gonzalez had the only Suns hit in the 2nd. The good news is he got the hit, the bad news is he was a PH for Billingsley
2005-09-13 17:11:17
34.   b1ued0dger
Is Adolfo Gonzalez a prospect or a roster filler?
2005-09-13 17:12:08
35.   CanuckDodger
Taking Billingsley out is not bad at all, it is just unfortunate he HAD to be taken out. He pitched 153 innings this season before tonight. That is up from 134 innings last year. A 20-year-old pitcher should not be pitching more than a 150 innings in a season. The Dodgers will be extremely negligent if they send him to the Arizona Fall League. In 2003, Edwin Jackson's pitching 170 innings in his age 19 season is probably a big reason why he had arm problems in 2004.
2005-09-13 17:12:16
36.   Telemachos
This is the first time I've been able to successfully get a Suns feed. Kinda fun!

They just pulled off a great double play -- Beltran Perez to Guzman to LaRoche. Then Perez struck out the next batter.

Abreu up.

2005-09-13 17:13:44
37.   molokai
I guess we won't be able to quote those incredible numbers he put up from August on anymore. I hope he's not hurt and he just had a bad day. Anytime I see a young pitcher throw like crap after a tough game I fear the knife.
I guess because deep down I never got over Kiki Jones not making it.
2005-09-13 17:17:50
38.   b1ued0dger
Loney just hit a two-run homerun!
2005-09-13 17:17:58
39.   King of the Hobos
Loney hits a 2 run shot, 6-4 Jaxx. This game is far from over
2005-09-13 17:17:58
40.   Telemachos
Loney homers!

6-4 now.

2005-09-13 17:18:19
41.   molokai
420 to center field. Did they build the stadium after the polo grounds?

Loney goes Long

2005-09-13 17:18:41
42.   Icaros
What did Loney just do? What's the score now?
2005-09-13 17:19:35
43.   Bob Timmermann
Is the Suns game over yet?
2005-09-13 17:20:12
44.   molokai
I love internet sarcasm.
2005-09-13 17:21:20
45.   King of the Hobos
35 "it is just unfortunate he HAD to be taken out"

That's what I meant, no matter how eloquent it was. And I completely agree about the AFL

As for Adolfo, he's a roster filler who has hit well in AA. At 20, he is hardly an organizational player, but he was intended as a roster filler, so for now, that's what he was. He's skipped Ogden, Columbus, and Vero Beach, that's a lot of skipping. I have no idea what his skill set is, his hitting is probably somewhere near Abreu

2005-09-13 17:21:21
46.   natepurcell
the suns are going to win. its their destiny.
2005-09-13 17:21:47
47.   ddger
33 Was he PH because he was ineffective or was he hurt?
2005-09-13 17:22:04
48.   Telemachos
42, 44 - LOL
2005-09-13 17:22:58
49.   ddger
Tracy would almost never take out his ace in the 2nd inning even if he gave up 6 runs.
2005-09-13 17:23:21
50.   molokai
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-13 17:23:48
51.   Marty
The Suns are on a mission from god. Then they're gonna get the band back together.
2005-09-13 17:28:10
52.   natepurcell
the baseball Gods have chosen this group of kids as the next great baseball dynasty. they will win this year, they will win next yr in AAA and once this group enters the majors, they will overpower the league and start the 10 yr dodger reign.

it has been written, the prophecy will be fulfilled.

2005-09-13 17:29:24
53.   Icaros
52 Good, we need a new prophecy around here. The current one blows.
2005-09-13 17:30:10
54.   ddger
How would Cey, Russell, Lopes, and Garvey's minor league teams compare with this year's Suns?
2005-09-13 17:30:12
55.   Adam
52 Except for the fact that one of the other great minor league systems (Atlanta) already has all their young guns up in the bigs getting a head start on ours...
2005-09-13 17:32:01
56.   natepurcell
How would Cey, Russell, Lopes, and Garvey's minor league teams compare with this year's Suns?

in the BA article on the suns, BA compared the suns to the yankees of the 90s and some other talented teams.

2005-09-13 17:32:16
57.   ddger
55 Are you Adam LaRoche? :)
2005-09-13 17:33:20
58.   Adam
57 Of course...
2005-09-13 17:33:37
59.   molokai
Every good prophecy needs a key mysterious person to fullfill the prophecy. Who is that player in this prophecy?
Could it be the friendly Orel who will bring them all together or the stranger from the East who goes by the strange moniker of the "depodesta".
2005-09-13 17:35:21
60.   Steve
The Jerry Royster Prophecy
2005-09-13 17:36:19
61.   Steve
The Yankees are not going to have their characteristic problems with the D-Rays tonight.
2005-09-13 17:36:50
62.   molokai
Our best hitting prospect bats 7th!
2005-09-13 17:38:12
63.   Sam DC
"Oakland 2 - Cleveland 6: Top 6th, Delayed -- Power"
2005-09-13 17:38:45
64.   Icaros
Bob will have to christen the name to make it official, but I guess it should be The Purcell Prophecy.
2005-09-13 17:39:52
65.   Steve
Yes, Oakland's power is always delayed. I've wanted to stop a few games myself for that reason.
2005-09-13 17:39:57
66.   natepurcell
a friendly figure from the past will be the bearer of this prophecy. this figure has etched his name in dodger tradition. Humble and noble, this figure becomes the field general for the next great dynasty.

this figure, who is very knowledgable of early career success, will be able to provide the leadership neccessary for the young soldiers.

this figure, is no other than the great mediocre himself, eric karros.

this shalled be called the karros prophecy.

it has been written...

2005-09-13 17:42:12
67.   King of the Hobos
So Perez has decided to pitch (so far) just like Muegge and Juarez in the playoffs. Both of them started winning games (blame the Dodgers offense for Muegge's no decision). Even if none of them ever do anything for the Dodgers, at least all of them were key players in the minor league playoffs
2005-09-13 17:42:27
68.   Steve
ugh...burn it
2005-09-13 17:43:16
69.   Marty
"The Karros Prophecy"

Nice title for a Ludlum book.

2005-09-13 17:43:35
70.   natepurcell
too late steve. it has been written.
2005-09-13 17:44:21
71.   King of the Hobos
66 And what exactly will he lead them to, and how will he do it? Because if it's recognition from ESPN, he truly is a great Dodger
2005-09-13 17:45:06
72.   Icaros
I'm not on board with that one, Nate. The Orel Prophecy would have been better.
2005-09-13 17:46:55
73.   DougS
66 God works in mysterious ways??
2005-09-13 17:47:03
74.   Bob Timmermann
I like the Purcell Prophecy because of the alliteration.

My computer shows Oakland leading 2-0, not down 6-2 though.

2005-09-13 17:47:20
75.   Steve
I would call it The Plaschke Prophecy. It would be more appropriately ironic.
2005-09-13 17:49:44
76.   Bob Timmermann
Have the Giants been posting their starting lineups so early the last two days in order to tell people that Bonds will be playing?
2005-09-13 17:50:45
77.   Icaros
74 Bob has ordered it down from Mt. Sinai. The Purcell Prophecy is official.
2005-09-13 17:52:24
78.   Bob Timmermann
But that was before I read that Nate wanted it to be called the Karros Prophecy. Since he has made the Prophecy he can call it what he wants.

Sort of like discovering a comet.

2005-09-13 17:52:55
79.   ddger
Is Tracy part of the prophecy?
2005-09-13 17:53:58
80.   Icaros
78 Then that's the second prophecy of the year I'm going to have to root against.

I've lost all faith.

2005-09-13 17:56:22
81.   joekings
74 - everywhere i've checked, espn, yahoo, it's 2-0 oakland.
2005-09-13 17:56:59
82.   Sam DC
74 oops -- no more putting kids to bed and typing and dodger thoughts for me . . .
2005-09-13 17:58:58
83.   Bob Timmermann

Besides I don't work on Mt. Sinai, I work on Normal Hill.

2005-09-13 18:00:40
84.   molokai
Nate, I think you lost the congregation. Your prophecy is now doomed to start out each April just getting in shape and jogging to 1st base on every ground ball. I was hoping for better.
2005-09-13 18:01:57
85.   GoBears
77 , 83 Just seems like Sinai because you're so tall.

And you type with hammer and chisel into stone tablets.

Easy mistake.

Although I like the irony of "Karros" or "Plashke," I'd hate for those bozos to get any more air time. You know, since this will be on everyone's lips for the next 20 years.

So that Joe Morgan can say "I don't believe in the Prophecy. I haven't read it, and I won't, because it's wrong. I know. I'm in the Hall of Fame."

2005-09-13 18:02:04
86.   dzzrtRatt
What we really need is "The Campanis Code."

(I was going to say the Lasorda code, but I'm still not sure what I think of him, despite all the pennants he won.)

2005-09-13 18:02:10
87.   Sam DC
82 typing on dodger thoughts. proves my point, I guess.
2005-09-13 18:03:48
88.   Steve
Your prophecy is now doomed to start out each April just getting in shape and jogging to 1st base on every ground ball.

L. O. L.

2005-09-13 18:04:33
89.   Sam DC
Mister Robinson just ejected for something in NYC. Gameday explaineth not.
2005-09-13 18:06:18
90.   Bob Timmermann
He will say it was Mike Scioscia's fault.
2005-09-13 18:06:25
91.   King of the Hobos
That's not a bad deal for Suns fans, go to Hooters and get free riverboat transportation to the Suns game. No idea why you'd air that ad with exactly one game left, but nonetheless...
2005-09-13 18:06:48
92.   Steve
God willing he'll get a 20-game suspension.

And Gigantor is pitching!

2005-09-13 18:08:00
93.   King of the Hobos
89 I was actually watching it. I have no idea what it was about, except it took forever for him to be ejected, and he was being restrained. If I hadn't been watching the Suns game, I'd know more...
2005-09-13 18:08:21
94.   Sam DC
92 no more -- now it's mad dog.
2005-09-13 18:08:53
95.   Sam DC
he was being restrained

I'm shocked, shocked.

2005-09-13 18:10:18
96.   Sam DC
Going for the triple, you might think I would be able to see the game and tell you but, no, despite having 200 channels of cable (in fairness, no extra innings), Nationals away games are not all available to me on television. Only about 80 games this year televised to the average digital cable owning joe.
2005-09-13 18:10:55
97.   Bob Timmermann
Has anyone ever eaten at a Hooter's? They do serve food right? Food beyond Buffalo wings, right?

I once had to help a guy who had an insane grudge against a Hooter's and I found him once in Pasadena slipping copies of his rant into a newsrack that had free weeklies in it.

He said Hooter's was controlled by a group of Canadian drug dealers.

2005-09-13 18:11:51
98.   Steve
He's always Gigantor to me.
2005-09-13 18:15:17
99.   Icaros
He said Hooter's was controlled by a group of Canadian drug dealers.

Better than being controlled by News Corp.

2005-09-13 18:17:21
100.   GoBears
97, 99: No, he probably worked for the U.S. Pharmaceutical industry, and was just bitter about all the cheap Canadian meds being bought by American wrinklies.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-13 18:17:34
101.   dzzrtRatt
Be nice to Mr. Robinson. He needs good karma going into this weekend's series Petco.
2005-09-13 18:18:05
102.   b1ued0dger
Guzman is finally over the mandoza line! Christian Guzman that is.
2005-09-13 18:18:08
103.   ddger
Myrow (1B) and Phillips (C) starting tonight. Our chances of finally getting a 4 game winning streak look bleak.
2005-09-13 18:18:41
104.   King of the Hobos
98 I think yyou're confused, Gigantor is gone. Mad Dog is an entirely different entity
2005-09-13 18:19:43
105.   OaklandAs
Who could have predicted that Myrow gets the start at 1B?

Aybar, 3B
Robles, SS
Kent, 2B
Ledee, LF
Cruz, RF
Myrow, 1B
Phillips, C
Werth, CF
Jackson, P

Barmes, SS
Sullivan, CF
Helton, 1B
Holliday, LF
Atkins, 3B
Gonzalez, 2B
Mohr, RF
Ardoin, C
Kim, P

2005-09-13 18:19:52
106.   King of the Hobos
103 I've wanted a Myrow start for some time now. However, not at 1B but LF. Because i have no idea where you're getting this from, who may I ask is in left? Do I want to know?
2005-09-13 18:20:10
107.   molokai
Just for fun, how many of these Sun players do you guys envision becoming usefull major league players?
Laroche/Guzman/Martin/Ruggiano as a sleeper.

Billingsly/Orenduff/Broxton/Juarez as a sleeper just to make Depo look good.

2005-09-13 18:20:39
108.   Vishal
my internet also says oakland is winning 2-0. don't scare me, people!

you guys are hilarious by the way :)

and yes, hooters has food. burgers and sandwiches, that sort of thing. i'd never been, and neither had my friend, so he took me out there before i moved away. we were like, the two unlikeliest straight guys to be at hooters, but the food wasn't bad. the girls weren't that hot, but they wore ridiculously short shorts to try and make up for it. i guess today is the day of me posting about women on dodger thoughts for some reason.

2005-09-13 18:21:05
109.   Bob Timmermann
Navarro has to rest some time.
2005-09-13 18:21:36
110.   Bob Timmermann
Actually Oakland is tied now.
2005-09-13 18:21:43
111.   Vishal
bah, spoke too soon. 2-2 in cleveland now. :/
2005-09-13 18:21:53
112.   King of the Hobos
105 That's not terrible. Navarro needs to sit every now and then, and it's not like Phillips is batting cleanup. I don't understand Myrow 6th and Werth 8th, but I'm not complaining as I want to see what Myrow can do (he does have a 1.000 OPS afterall)
2005-09-13 18:22:16
113.   molokai
Only JT could find another way to keep Choi on the bench with Saenz while Philips is catching.
I did get to see Myrow get his 1st major league hit on Sunday. Choi is so bloody buried that we should just hold a funeral.
2005-09-13 18:22:27
114.   King of the Hobos
112 That last part was sarcastic mind you
2005-09-13 18:22:55
115.   ddger
Navarro's wife is in labor so he will be at the hospital and not be available tonight. But why Myrow? Is Tracy hoping for lightning in a bottle twice (like Aybar)?
2005-09-13 18:24:55
116.   King of the Hobos
Beltran Perez out after 4.1 scoreless innings. Assuming Alvarez doesn't allow the baserunner to score, Perez, Muegge, and Juarez have allowed 1 run in 20 IP in the playoffs
2005-09-13 18:25:30
117.   coachjpark
Myrow? That's absurd. We're 5 games back. Choi/Saenz platoon seems to be working and we put Myrow out there? That's insulting.
2005-09-13 18:28:00
118.   Bob Timmermann
So, the Giants are 6 games out, facing the first place team and are starting Dan Ortmeier.
2005-09-13 18:28:19
119.   Steve
Phew. Phillips at catcher = sucks but whatta ya gonna do? Navarro's gotta sit.

Off to the game...

2005-09-13 18:28:21
120.   coachjpark
With all the Koreans that the Dodgers are facing, one would assume that you'd put in the Korean to face his countrymen....
2005-09-13 18:28:31
121.   molokai
Nice double play.
For a team that has no pitching in the minors it is nice to know that the Diamondbacks gave us a few. To bad they will all be rule 5 fodder this winter.
2005-09-13 18:28:53
122.   ddger
105 Do you use gameday? Is gameday up for our game, yet?
2005-09-13 18:30:35
123.   coachjpark
Why isn't the lineup posted on Yahoo yet?
2005-09-13 18:31:00
124.   coachjpark
I hope JT is reconsidering....
2005-09-13 18:31:56
125.   ddger
Maybe Myrow had a good game against Kim in the minors?
2005-09-13 18:33:01
126.   coachjpark
Probably went 1 for 1 or some insanely large statistical sample size... with runners in scoring position of course....
2005-09-13 18:33:33
127.   King of the Hobos
Offerman was just called out at second on a force play, which came off a single up the middle...
2005-09-13 18:33:38
128.   Sam DC
98 Mad dog is Joey Eischen -- who I think broke his arm when the Nationals were out in LA. He is pretty hard core.

I had to spend three weeks in a hotel in the Baltimore inner harbor for work in February 2002. The hugest snowstorm in a long, long while buried the city on President's day weekend. Nothing was plowed or dug out for days -- I was marching to my temp. office in waist deep snow for days. People were marooned in the hotels, and lots of places started running out of food b/c no trucks were getting in. I've never been to a Hooters, but there was one in the inner harbor, and I shared an elevator with two very straightlaced business women while they talked about their meal at hooters. Used the word "Harlots" as I recall, which I thought was pretty funny since there were, if you looked, three or four other places to eat in the same little foodcourt building, so it's not like these women could only eat at Hooters on pain of starvation.

Later in the wake of the storm my wife and son come to stay a few days, and I was out with my little boy and he toddled into hooters while I was getting him a lemonade. Man, did he get swamped by doting underdressed women. I was obligated to rescue him. I was.

2005-09-13 18:34:22
129.   molokai
What a hurt the Yankee's are putting on the Devilrays. I guess they are taking out a seasons frustration in one game. Kind of looks like the last game the Yankee's won in the postseason.
2005-09-13 18:36:01
130.   ddger
Choi (1 for 3) and Saenz (0 for 1) against Kim.

At least Valentin isn't starting.

2005-09-13 18:37:36
131.   oldbear
Brian Myrow is another one of those AAAA types that Jim Tracy loves to trot out.

I just hope he turns out better than Mike Edwards has.

No Choi or Perez.... This is Tracy's Last Stand.

2005-09-13 18:38:45
132.   ddger
131 You know what happened at Custer's Last Stand.
2005-09-13 18:39:42
133.   Kayaker7
Myrow?! Tracy should be fired on the spot. I mean, this is reaching ridiculous proportions. I wish Myrow well, but what justifies this sort of distrust of Choi's abilities? Myrow has shown enough in AAA to displace a guy who has shown that he can get the job done? This is sick. This sort of incompetency and blatant bias against a player should not be tolerated.
2005-09-13 18:41:42
134.   ddger
Tracy better keep close eye on Jackson and not let us fall more than 2 or 3 runs behind in the first few innings. Every game is almost must win and Tracy will have to start managing with urgency. We just don't have much margin for errors.
2005-09-13 18:41:59
135.   Bob Timmermann

Well, at least you're wishing Myrow well.

2005-09-13 18:44:13
136.   King of the Hobos
Luis Gonzalez walked in a run, 7-4 Jaxx. Gonzalez is doing nothing to help the Suns
2005-09-13 18:44:34
137.   Kayaker7
135 I have nothing against a guy who languished for so long in the minors. I'm pulling for him to do well. I hope he fouls off a ball and brains Tracy. Then, hit the next pitch out of the park.
2005-09-13 18:45:13
138.   Bob Timmermann
Hasn't there been a limit placed on players named Luis Gonzalez in Organized Baseball yet?
2005-09-13 18:45:32
139.   ddger
Bob, one more monumental collapse.

I know this is painful to remember and we're glad that we weren't around at that time.

In 1951 we lead Giants by 6 with 12 left and blew it on Bobby Thomson's HR in the playoffs.

2005-09-13 18:47:02
140.   molokai
jtd turned a nice double play.
2005-09-13 18:47:41
141.   ddger
Tracy's Crazy/Magic 8 Ball must have been working overtime tonight.
2005-09-13 18:47:51
142.   molokai
138Only on the position players. We have room for several pitchers.
2005-09-13 18:48:58
143.   ddger
Has there ever been a team with 2 players having exact same first and last name?
2005-09-13 18:52:36
144.   Bob Timmermann
By my count at game 142 (143 to be precise) of the season, the Dodgers were 3 1/2 games ahead of the Giants.

Remember that the Giants went 11-1 in their last 12 games before the playoff.

The Dodgers last lead of six games was when the Giants had 12 left to play, but the Dodgers had 16 left.

2005-09-13 18:56:08
145.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets, for a while, had two Bobby Jones on the team. They looked about as much alike as the Dodgers two Mike Ramseys.

The 1962 Mets had two Bob Millers.

The Padres have had three different guys named Dave Roberts play for them.

There were two Hal Smiths who were backup catchers in the late 1950s and early 1960s, but they were never teammates. One of them hit the second most important home run in Game 7 of the 1960 World Series. It was a 3-run homer to give the Pirates a 9-7 lead going to the 9th.

Which they blew and let the Yankees tie them up.

2005-09-13 19:00:38
146.   ddger
It would be interesting if 2 players had same names and played same positions. Imagine what it would have been like for writers and announcers.
2005-09-13 19:04:29
147.   Sam DC
Nationals radio announcer Charlie Slowes, after Mets catcher Ramon Castro fielded a bunt and threw it into right field, allowing the runner on first to come all the way around and score: "What an awful play. Nationals now lead 4-2 on just a terrible play by the Mets. . . . That's one of the worst plays I've seen all year." I just find it hard to imagine Vin Scully piling on in quite that blunt a manner.
2005-09-13 19:05:01
148.   King of the Hobos
Both Alex Gonzalez's have played SS in a game when the Marlins faced the Cubs (and possibly whatever team that Gonzalez has since played for)
2005-09-13 19:06:05
149.   King of the Hobos
147 At least he used a different adjective every time (assuming you quoted correctly)
2005-09-13 19:06:47
150.   ddger
King, it looks bad for Suns trailing by 3 with 2 outs left.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-13 19:07:40
151.   Bob Timmermann
The two Bobby Jones played together on the Mets in 2000 and the Padres in 2002.

The righthanded one (who had a longer career) is named Robert Joseph Jones and is white.

The lefty is Robert Mitchell Jones and is black.

2005-09-13 19:08:46
152.   Bob Timmermann
There was a catcher named Kevin Brown around when Kevin Brown pitched.

Even odder, there were two pitchers at the same time named Jeff D'Amico.

2005-09-13 19:09:05
153.   ddger
151 At least they could write and say LH Bobby Jones and RH Bobby Jones.
2005-09-13 19:10:09
154.   Sam DC
149 was careful with the quotes. He did say those same things at least 4 and probably more like 6 or 7 times, so I had lots of chances to get them down.
2005-09-13 19:16:22
155.   Bob Timmermann
Chris Kahrl in Baseball Prospectus would refer to them as "The Good Bobby Jones" and "The Bad Bobby Jones"

Good was right and bad was left.

2005-09-13 19:16:23
156.   King of the Hobos
I'm not liking the control thus far. And why is Sullivan "Sully?"
2005-09-13 19:19:23
157.   Bob Timmermann

You're way too young to know about giving people nicknames like that....

But I've known quite a few Irish people to call people "Sully". It helps people familiarize themselves with the vast numbers of Sullivans in the world.

2005-09-13 19:19:38
158.   natepurcell
well jackson wasnt really missing much. at least he was missing down and just a couple of inches.

his fb is back in the 92-95 range though.

2005-09-13 19:19:54
159.   King of the Hobos
At least there won't be a 1st inning deficit to make up. Let's hope Jackson can pitch to more batters like he did to Atkins and not Sullivan
2005-09-13 19:20:40
160.   coachbean
Lets not forget about the two Greg Olsons of the early 90's... one pitched for the Orioles ant the other caught for the Twins... I think one may have spelled his first name with a double g at the end.
2005-09-13 19:21:22
161.   King of the Hobos
157 My youth does betray me. I just don't like Sullivan being referred to by a nickname, it brings affection that he does not deserve
2005-09-13 19:22:05
162.   Linkmeister
Ok, can a fan watch a game under protest? Why on earth would Choi not be playing?

Bob, you got the necessary paperwork so I can fax my protest to the League Office?

2005-09-13 19:22:46
163.   King of the Hobos
I had no idea Todd Greene was THAT awful. He makes Phillips look like Pudge
2005-09-13 19:24:48
164.   Bob Timmermann
Gregg Olson - relief pitcher, briefly a Dodger
Greg Olson - catcher, for some reason, a former All-Star
2005-09-13 19:26:11
165.   Bob Timmermann
The NY Times style if the two Bobby Jones were in a story was to use Bobby J. Jones and Bobby M. Jones. But it looks like their writers tried to avoid putting their names in the same story.
2005-09-13 19:31:39
166.   coachbean
Funny how memory works... I remember that one Greg Olson spelled his name with a double G and then I look on B-Cube and see that Greg the pitcher, played for the Dodgers in 2000-2001... something I have NO recollection of, and that the other only played THREE games with the Twins and spent the rest of his career (4 years) with the Braves.
2005-09-13 19:35:18
167.   King of the Hobos
Usually Ardoin ad Kim wouldn't scare me as much as they do now...
2005-09-13 19:35:28
168.   Bob Timmermann
The Gregg Olson Era in Los Angeles should be forgotten.
2005-09-13 19:36:53
169.   King of the Hobos
Hitting Ardoin can't be too smart. I'm not liking how this inning is going
2005-09-13 19:38:12
170.   ddger
Jackson's control is like Billingsley earlier today. Let's hope we get different results.
2005-09-13 19:38:14
171.   King of the Hobos
Bonds Ks on a strike em out, throw em out
2005-09-13 19:40:21
172.   natepurcell
espicially at 0-2...

arghh come on edwin.

2005-09-13 19:41:04
173.   King of the Hobos
This sucks. I'm not sure we can score 2 runs combined on both Kims
2005-09-13 19:41:12
174.   coachbean
Vin mentioned the "Deer Meat" story yet again when discussing Clint Barmes... I thought that was determined to be a lie... that he hurt himself offroading...
2005-09-13 19:41:20
175.   ddger
Tracy better stay awake. We can't get too far behind.
2005-09-13 19:42:20
176.   King of the Hobos who do we root for? Giants or Padres? Hopefully a torrential downpour is coming their way...
2005-09-13 19:42:21
177.   ddger
was than Repko in right?
2005-09-13 19:42:29
178.   DaveP
why didn't anyone tell me Ledee has a Brett Butler type arm? that was a seriously weak throw from LF.
2005-09-13 19:43:09
179.   ddger
Jackson needs all the help he can get. Our defense better shape up.
2005-09-13 19:44:07
180.   Bob Timmermann
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
2005-09-13 19:45:14
181.   King of the Hobos
This is what happens when you hit Ardoin on a 0-2 count. How far can Edwin go before Tracy pulls him? 5 runs? 6? 10?
2005-09-13 19:46:39
182.   DaveP
back to AA for Mr Jackson.
2005-09-13 19:46:40
183.   Bob Timmermann
This is probably dependent upon how fast Elmer Dessens can warm up.
2005-09-13 19:47:18
184.   ddger
This game is almost identical to Suns game earlier.

Was Sun's game premonition of things to come?

2005-09-13 19:47:38
185.   natepurcell
im going to cry, im sorry edwin.

dont get down on yourself, get em next time.

2005-09-13 19:49:23
186.   Uncle Miltie
Werth is a great CF?
2005-09-13 19:49:24
187.   werthgagne31
jackson is not ready for prime time, anyone thinking he should be in the dodgers starting rotation for 2006 is kidding themselves.
or even the bullpen for that matter.
2005-09-13 19:49:26
188.   dzzrtRatt
Two dumb errors didn't help.
2005-09-13 19:49:34
189.   King of the Hobos
Tonight is not a good night.
2005-09-13 19:49:53
190.   DaveP
is it roller skate night at the stadium? I'm not certain but Werth might have left his on.

Now I just want to see Kuo come in at some point and do well.

2005-09-13 19:50:35
191.   natepurcell
okay im done watching this game, im going to go do something else tonight. bye guys.
2005-09-13 19:51:13
192.   ddger
This game is getting out of hand. We should have realized that something was wrong when we saw the starting lineup.

Is rain shower out of question?

2005-09-13 19:51:14
193.   DaveP
191 - you're going to miss Kuo strike out the side in the 7th.
2005-09-13 19:51:51
194.   dzzrtRatt
er three...
2005-09-13 19:52:00
195.   Bob Timmermann
It takes a special outfield to have each guy make an error in one inning.

Somewhere Willie Davis is saying "Shoot, I made three in one inning all by myself!"

2005-09-13 19:54:08
196.   King of the Hobos
195 Hopefully the infield doesn't decide to beat them, and each make an error of their own in the 3rd
2005-09-13 19:55:17
197.   D4P

Purcey - Didn't I warn you about becoming too emotionally attached to Dodger prospects? I don't want to see you get so disappointed.

2005-09-13 19:57:08
198.   oldbear
EJ's career as a Dodgers is over I believe. I think he'll be traded in the off-season.

The only thing that made him a big time prospect was his velocity.

Without that, he's just another guy.

6 runs in 8 innings. We can chip away.

2005-09-13 19:57:40
199.   ddger
I knew we should have started Edwards, Repko, and Valentin in the outfield.
2005-09-13 19:58:39
200.   oldbear
Buntermaker might want to put in Choi and Perez now. We need offense.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-13 19:59:03
201.   Bob Timmermann
And it was an error sampler:
1) bad throw
2) dropped fly
3) misplayed single

To make the day complete, we will need a bad pickoff throw by someone and maybe a catcher's interference.

2005-09-13 19:59:12
202.   Gen3Blue
As much as Jack looks unready for prime time, he gets no help. With a guy on the edge like that it can make a huge dif. if you get him a few runs and solid D in the first few innings, which doesn't happen with this years edition.
2005-09-13 19:59:27
203.   ddger
200 I believe it might be too late.
2005-09-13 20:00:30
204.   CanuckDodger
Jackson SHOULD be in the 2006 rotation. It is time for the training wheels to come off the bike and for Jackson to be allowed to fail at the big league level and be made to get back on the bike till he gets it right. Greg Maddux had an ERA over 6.00 in his first FULL major league season, and so did Brett Myers. Patience is warranted.
2005-09-13 20:00:51
205.   regfairfield
Dustan Mohr somehow managed to live up to my expectations and ruin my fantasy team at the same time.

That's hard to do.

2005-09-13 20:01:54
206.   werthgagne31
i agree, maybe package jackson,izturis,antonio perez,repko for a penny type starting pitcher but not until izturis is activated and at the same time guzman gets the call for ss.
we have aybar for 3b 2006, and moved to 2b after kent leaves 2007, no need for antonio perez after guzman comes up.
2005-09-13 20:02:23
207.   regfairfield
204 This is Jackson's third opportunity. I would really rather he prove he's not useless outside of the major league team.
2005-09-13 20:05:20
208.   oldbear
204. What if Jackson just isnt that good to begin with? He hasnt really done much in the minor leagues to warrant being placed in the MLB rotation.

I can see Orenduff, Billingsley, and Broxton (if they move him back to starter), all ahead of Jackson.

2005-09-13 20:06:07
209.   ddger
Bunt or PH?
2005-09-13 20:06:42
210.   werthgagne31
i agree again.
2005-09-13 20:07:47
211.   ddger
Gave away an out. Elmer better pitch 2 more scoreless innings.
2005-09-13 20:07:49
212.   Gen3Blue
206 I'm beginning to almost agree with you until you get to the "Brad Penny type". Now he may be OK but he hasn't really proved anything yet, at least for us.
2005-09-13 20:10:24
213.   werthgagne31
well if we can get better than a penny type for what i'm proposing than all the better.
2005-09-13 20:11:13
214.   regfairfield
212 I don't know, he's proved that he's a solid number one starter. Having two Brad Penny's at the top of the rotation, followed by Odalis and Lowe is okay by me. (Not that I agree about trading those players to get one)
2005-09-13 20:11:18
215.   oldbear
Robles needs a day off. If its 6-0, why not rest him?
2005-09-13 20:11:52
216.   DaveP
204 - wasn't Greg Maddux consistently excellent at every level of the minors before coming up to the majors? Jackson has been atrocious at times in the minors and excellent at other times. I'd like to see him get a full year of excelling at AA before considering him for a regular spot in the rotation.
2005-09-13 20:16:42
217.   dzzrtRatt
I want Edwin Jackson to succeed with the Dodgers, but first I want to stay in contention. Why didn't Dessens get the start? I'm not whining, I'm actually curious what Tracy's thinking might have been. We've got a pretty loaded bullpen now; was he saving him for something?
2005-09-13 20:19:10
218.   Nagman
According to BP's postseason odds report, the Cardinals have a 100% chance of making the postseason (by running a computer simulation of the rest of the season a million times), despite not having clinched a spot.

So I guess it's "never in a million years" would they blow this lead and lose the wildcard spot.

2005-09-13 20:19:36
219.   Gen3Blue
206 I think we could get better for that package. I'm guilt of too small a sample, but Penny in his last 5 games has 19er in 29.2 innings.
2005-09-13 20:22:43
220.   Jon Weisman
204 - I think, if nothing else, the training wheels are off when you've pitched in three September pennant races in a row. Jackson has not been babied.

I'm all for being patient in the sense of giving Jackson time, but your logic doesn't quite make sense to me. Pitchers don't have to spend an entire season posting a 6.00 as a ritual. There's plenty of time before you need to commit Jackson to the 2006 rotation.

2005-09-13 20:24:59
221.   Jon Weisman
It should also be noted that Maddux's first full season was spent on a last-place team.
2005-09-13 20:26:00
222.   DaveP
per Vinny, we only need one more error by an outfielder tonight to tie the NL record (4). something else to look for tonight.
2005-09-13 20:28:14
223.   King of the Hobos
The comeback has began. Come on Myrow, prove your worth
2005-09-13 20:29:16
224.   oldbear
Cruz just missed making it a 6-3 game~!

We at least need an Olney from Myrow here. A walk would be even better.

We got RISP on deck!

2005-09-13 20:31:04
225.   King of the Hobos
Myrow should have completed the swing, he would have got to first
2005-09-13 20:31:07
226.   regfairfield
I'm not a fan of small sample size, but Byran Myrow can set my opinion of him right here.
2005-09-13 20:31:33
227.   D4P
224 - "We got RISP on deck!"

We like to call him "Mr. Clutch" (or "Mr. DoubleClutch")

2005-09-13 20:33:22
228.   King of the Hobos
224 You got your wish, with a pretty good AB by Myrow. Now Phillips needs to avoid the 6-4-3
2005-09-13 20:33:25
229.   oldbear
Good at bat MYROW!!!

9 pitch walk.

Now Mr. Clutch Jason Phillips!

2005-09-13 20:33:33
230.   DaveP
maybe Philipps can kill the rally with a 3 run HR here.
2005-09-13 20:33:55
231.   regfairfield
Welcome to my happy place, Myrow.
2005-09-13 20:35:41
232.   Xeifrank
I was really disappointed to turn on the TV and see the Dodgers losing 6-0, even though they have now chipped away on the lead a bit. I said to myself, Phillips must be starting tonight. And sure enough he is starting behind the plate and Myrow of all people starting at 1B. Doesn't Tracy realize that these last remaining games, especially when we still have a sliver of a chance at winning the division, are very important must win games. Ughhhhhh!
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:39:09
233.   Xeifrank
Giants have caught the Padres at 3-3, and Phillips does his usual strike out with RISP.
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:39:25
234.   Gen3Blue
I think Sunny's overthrowing.

Like Vin said-- then you strike out!

2005-09-13 20:39:35
235.   Xeifrank
Is Steve at the game? If so, someone keep him away from the upper deck railings.
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:39:38
236.   oldbear
Phillips with a good at bat then chokes it away on the last pitch.
2005-09-13 20:40:07
237.   b1ued0dger
Did Phillips swing at ball 4?
2005-09-13 20:40:36
238.   dzzrtRatt
"Good at bat, Jason," said Tracy. "I just love watching you up there with Runners in Scoring Position."
2005-09-13 20:40:48
239.   Xeifrank
Choi in the on deck circle waiting to pinch hit. A certain 12 pitch at bat. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:41:08
240.   Gen3Blue
Time to take some pitches!
2005-09-13 20:41:11
241.   Marty
Phillips swung at ball four and fouled off 3 others outside the strike zone
2005-09-13 20:41:58
242.   Nagman
Gosh, this team is scrappy.
2005-09-13 20:42:00
243.   Xeifrank
Woo-hoo, Werth keeps the rally alive and Choi is the tying run at the plyate (TRATP).
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:43:19
244.   regfairfield
Keep in mind we'd all be perfectly happy if Choi did the same thing.
2005-09-13 20:44:46
245.   Xeifrank
Productive out for Choi (Sac fly). I read Tracy's lips "Thata boy HeeSop". vr, Xei
2005-09-13 20:44:47
246.   dzzrtRatt
I liked Myrow's dash to third on Werth's single. That set up the Choi RBI.
2005-09-13 20:45:02
247.   oldbear
Choi just missed that! 6-4 Rox.
2005-09-13 20:45:03
248.   Nagman
Erickson's warming up. Just kidding (I hope -- is he even here?).
2005-09-13 20:45:44
249.   King of the Hobos
Two runs vs Kim/Rockies bullpen shouldn't be hard, and is far from impossible. However, can outr bullpen hold off the Rockies for 5 innings? I hate relying on numerous innings from Carrara and Schmoll, but I don't want to waste every one of our pitchers
2005-09-13 20:46:02
250.   Marty
So I just got done dealing with a work emergency for the last hour and a half. Did Jackson pitch that badly, or did errors do him in? or both?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-13 20:47:00
251.   DaveP
248 - Jon, please suspend Nagman's account for a few hours. That's a flagrant foul :)
2005-09-13 20:47:22
252.   oldbear
You dont see many 1st pitch outs by Willy Aybar. Must have gotten a little over anxious.

Too bad Phillips couldnt have walked, because we maybe coudl have scored 5-6 runs.

2005-09-13 20:48:40
253.   King of the Hobos
250 Both, but he was not very good. The errors only accounted for one run technically, and he was giving up hits and walks regardless
2005-09-13 20:48:57
254.   D4P
Will Choi ever hit another HR? His last was on August 2nd, and His last before that was on June 14th. That's 2 HRs in 2 months, a span of some 150+ PAs.
2005-09-13 20:49:40
255.   D4P
Will Choi ever hit another HR? His last was on August 2nd, and His last before that was on June 14th. That's 2 HRs in 3 months, a span of some 150+ PAs.
2005-09-13 20:49:51
256.   Marty
253 Thanks
2005-09-13 20:50:43
257.   b1ued0dger
Gio has been pretty good lately. And he has a 3.31 ERA at Dodger Stadium this year which is pretty decent.
2005-09-13 20:51:05
258.   regfairfield
Maybe if he got more playtime, he'd hit more. I imagine hitting home runs off the bench is rather difficult.
2005-09-13 20:51:59
259.   dzzrtRatt
Superb inning by Gio.
2005-09-13 20:55:36
260.   oldbear
Robles is slumping. Even when he hits them hard they are outs. I believe 1-20 slump.
2005-09-13 20:56:48
261.   oldbear
Kent dont swing at that junk. Kim has nothing tonite.
2005-09-13 20:57:27
262.   DaveP
gotta pull for Alvarez to get back this season and pitch at least another inning, before retiring at end of season. Here's a quote from him at

"I just want to [play again in 2005] for a lot of reasons -- for my teammates, even the people in the stands, my wife and daughter," he said. "I want to show all the people I never gave up, I kept fighting and fighting."

2005-09-13 20:58:03
263.   King of the Hobos
Not a good inning by the Dodgers. Wasting Kent and Ledee ABs like that will hurt, hopefully we can rally again
2005-09-13 21:00:26
264.   oldbear
263. I dont understand how at bats fluctuate so much from inning to ininng. In the 4th the guys battled, fouled pitches off, took walks, worked the count...

Next inning, back to hacking.

I dont get it?

2005-09-13 21:08:17
265.   Bob Timmermann
Erstie! So clutch. Hits into a 5-2 DP with the bases loaded and no one out in Seattle.
2005-09-13 21:10:35
266.   King of the Hobos
I was hoping that would carry, we really need a run vs Dohman
2005-09-13 21:11:30
267.   King of the Hobos
Another really quick inning it would appear. Where did the patience go? We wait, and we hit. We don't wait, we don't hit
2005-09-13 21:11:52
268.   oldbear
Wow talk about killing a rally...

The 5th and 6th innings were terrible tonite.

2005-09-13 21:12:07
269.   Nagman
So is it MY-row or muh-ROE? Vinny has pronounced it both ways.
2005-09-13 21:14:53
270.   oldbear
Jason Phillips is now hitting .238
Rockies have retired 8 men in a row.
7 pitch 6th inning.
7 pitch 5th inning.


2005-09-13 21:15:59
271.   oldbear
I would not leave Carrara in for a 3rd inning of relief.

Getting 2 shut out innings from him was lucky enough.

2005-09-13 21:17:37
272.   oldbear
Nice job Tracy. Press your luck, and Helton leads off with a double.
2005-09-13 21:18:29
273.   King of the Hobos
If the Suns game really was an omen, then Helton will score (if not him, someone), and that will be the score
2005-09-13 21:18:48
274.   regfairfield
We can't double switch Myrow...why?
2005-09-13 21:20:07
275.   Jon Weisman
264, 267 - Baseball is played by humans.
2005-09-13 21:20:58
276.   Xeifrank
Angels lose!
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:21:05
277.   Bob Timmermann
With the bases loaded and no one out in Seattle, Richie Sexson grounded into a 4-8-3 DP.

Scioscia brought in Izturis to play center and went with a 5-man infield.

2005-09-13 21:22:44
278.   Bob Timmermann
Brewers lead the DBacks, 3-1.

I care that the Dodgers finish ahead of them. I can't let down Icaros.

2005-09-13 21:22:50
279.   Xeifrank
With the Giants taking the lead in the 7th inning, our game becomes even HUGER. Denial is knockin at the door, will Jim Tracy and his Crazy 8 Ball open it? vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:27:38
280.   King of the Hobos
Tracy uses the bullpen properly, I'm amazed, speechless...
2005-09-13 21:27:38
281.   DaveP
great job by Osaria. going to be a heck of a competition for a spot in the pen next year.
2005-09-13 21:28:03
282.   oldbear
Great job Osoria. Makes up for a buntermaker mistake.
2005-09-13 21:29:18
283.   ddger
Great job Osoria. Our relief pitching has been outstanding so far tonight. Let's finish this comeback by getting some runs this inning.
2005-09-13 21:29:24
284.   King of the Hobos
275 Are you sure?
2005-09-13 21:31:03
285.   CanuckDodger
220 -- Jon, I call September "cups of coffee" riding the bike with training wheels for a pitcher; there is no commitment to stick with the guy and see him through rough patches. Lowe, Weaver, and Penny have all had horrific games this year, and they had them with nobody questioning their credentials as major leaguers, and no threat of demotion to the minors. That is pitching without training wheels. You fall off the bike, and there is nothing to do but get back on.

You say you fail to see my logic. I presented no syllogism, but I have argued here before, on the evidence of Jackson's very tentative style of pitching, that Jackson needs more confidence in himself, needs to trust his stuff against major leaguers. Many other young pitchers don't have confidence problems, but I don't think Jackson is one of those guys. That may just be a personality quirk, but people with those kinds of personalities often do need someone else to instill confidence in them that they lack. (Orel Hershiser was a young pitcher Tommy Lasorda identified as being too meek for his own good, so he started calling him "Bulldog" to help build up his fortitude and ego.) A pitcher's confidence is certainly undermined when there are too many cups of coffee that don't lead to a regular MLB job. That is why I think Jackson really does NEED to be given the vote of confidence that a regular rotation slot out of spring training would signify. I would not be willing to give that vote of confidence to a pitcher unless I REALLY believed his stuff is special, but I do think Jackson's stuff is special.

2005-09-13 21:31:04
286.   King of the Hobos
Valentin due up? Hopefully he's not allowed to swing, I see a DP coming
2005-09-13 21:31:19
287.   regfairfield
You have got to be kidding me...
2005-09-13 21:31:22
288.   oldbear
Good start Werth. Keep it goin.
2005-09-13 21:31:59
289.   King of the Hobos
281,282,283 Was the choreographed? You all started with the same words
2005-09-13 21:32:34
290.   capdodger
Valentin pinch hitting???
2005-09-13 21:33:24
291.   King of the Hobos
Valentin sure was effective. I almost would have preferred Grabowski
2005-09-13 21:33:47
292.   ddger
Let Tracy just get Valentin out of the way so that he won't be able to use him later.
2005-09-13 21:33:59
293.   oldbear
Valentin off the bench to pinch hit?

Buntermaker please make it stop.

2005-09-13 21:35:12
294.   King of the Hobos
Another drive to the warning track, these are getting annoying. Why couldn't it get hotter at night?
2005-09-13 21:36:12
295.   dzzrtRatt
Tracy's continued reliance on Valentin is even more egregious than how he uses Phillips and how he doesn't use Choi. The guy is D-O-N-E.
2005-09-13 21:36:28
296.   Bob Timmermann
Please send your concerns to the Environmental Protection Agency.
2005-09-13 21:36:39
297.   ddger
Myrow and Phillips will probably be PH with Saenz and Perez.
2005-09-13 21:37:55
298.   ddger
Come on Oscar, get on base for Kent.
2005-09-13 21:38:51
299.   oldbear
Bench Robles at least for a game. He's 1-21 now.
2005-09-13 21:38:52
300.   King of the Hobos
He could have not swung and we'd actually have a chance. Now Kent's AB will be wasted. I don't see us triumphing unless we can rally in the 8th like the 4th
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-13 21:41:31
301.   regfairfield
299 But Antonio Perez's defense costs us like four, maybe five runs a game, right?
2005-09-13 21:41:37
302.   oldbear
Tracy must be saving AP/Saenz for the LH closer Fuentes.
2005-09-13 21:42:05
303.   capdodger
297 Which of course raises the question, "Why didn't those players get four AB's instead of one?"
2005-09-13 21:42:12
304.   ddger
At least the Giants are doing their share leading 5-3 in 7th.
2005-09-13 21:43:55
305.   oldbear

At least we have 6 good hitters coming up for the 8th/9th. Brazo has to hold them.

2005-09-13 21:43:58
306.   ddger
303 Tracy's "Law of Diminishing Returns".
2005-09-13 21:46:34
307.   Jon Weisman
285 - we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's certainly no threat of sending Jackson to the minors in September, when the minor league season is over. There's no greater vote of confidence than starting a pitcher in pennant-race games, and then starting him again even when he falters, and then starting him again even when he falters. Do you think Tracy, fan of Dessens, fan of Carrara, hasn't thought of spot-starting those guys? Do you think they haven't thought of rushing Odalis back? My god, Jackson has been crashing his bike all over the place the past two years, and the Dodgers do nothing but put him back on it. Many would argue they've shown him an overwhelming amount of faith.

We'll see what happens with this start. But honestly, I don't know how much more dedication you could have reasonably expected from the Dodgers. Every time Jackson has shown promise, the Dodgers have turned to him - and even times when he hasn't.

Please keep in mind that I like Jackson and fervently root for him. But I think your passion for him has made you over-defensive on his behalf.

2005-09-13 21:50:07
308.   Bob Timmermann
And the DBacks lose! Woo hoo!
2005-09-13 21:51:03
309.   King of the Hobos
Everytime we get good contact, it's right at the dang fielder. Seems like luck has not liked the Dodgers today
2005-09-13 21:53:00
310.   Xeifrank
:Knock! Knock!
:Who's there?
:Opportunity who?
:Opporunity to gain another game on the Padres.
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:53:12
311.   ddger
We should PR for Ledee.
2005-09-13 21:53:40
312.   King of the Hobos
I don't like Myrow in this position...
2005-09-13 21:53:50
313.   ddger
2005-09-13 21:54:11
314.   Xeifrank
Ok, Myrow your last chance to make me not upset about Buntermaker starting you over Choi in the biggest game of the year.
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:54:13
315.   regfairfield
If Myrow hits this out, he's my boy for life.

Of course, I'd much rather see AP here.

2005-09-13 21:54:59
316.   Xeifrank
On deck Jason Phillips! I'd pitch around Myrow too. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:55:35
317.   ddger
This is Myrow chance to prove Tracy as genius.
2005-09-13 21:55:38
318.   King of the Hobos
I really don't like Phillips in this position
2005-09-13 21:55:46
319.   DaveP
myrow with another nice at bat. can't complain about his performance tonight.
2005-09-13 21:55:46
320.   Marty
Hit for Phillips!
2005-09-13 21:56:06
321.   Xeifrank
Basically an intentional walk, so they can get Phillips up there with RISP. Rockies know he's a sure out. APerez pinch runs? Is he coming in the game now, or just wasted as a pinch runner? vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:56:07
322.   regfairfield
And we waste AP!

Would him hitting here be much nicer?

2005-09-13 21:56:47
323.   Bob Timmermann
I would presume Perez will stay in the game at second base and Kent will play first base.
2005-09-13 21:57:02
324.   Xeifrank
If Phillips hits a three run home run I will kiss my Jim Tracy vodoo doll. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:57:20
325.   ddger
Why doesn't Tracy let AP PH instead of wasting him on PR?
2005-09-13 21:57:38
326.   Xeifrank
323. Hope so. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 21:57:43
327.   Mark Linsey
I believe Dioner isn't even there since his wife had a baby today. Have they mentioned him coming back to the park? That could explain why Phillips is hitting.
2005-09-13 21:58:01
328.   Xeifrank
Down goes Phillips with RISP.

FJT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!vr, Xei

2005-09-13 21:58:11
329.   Marty
I HATE Phillips
2005-09-13 21:58:22
330.   Bob Timmermann
I sense that the 8th inning will make many people here unhappy.

Just a guess on my part.

2005-09-13 21:58:31
331.   King of the Hobos
I can't believe it, a single and we're tied...

I really wish Phillips could once again hit with runners in scoring position.

2005-09-13 21:58:35
332.   CanuckDodger
307 -- But are the Dodgers willing to KEEP Jackson on the bike, in the majors, going into next year? No demotions to the minors? That is the issue. There were people calling for Brazoban's head not too long ago. Trade him. Send him to Triple A. Send him to Double A. Whatever. Just get rid of him. But Brazoban stayed a Dodger, stayed in the majors, and I presume Colburn worked with him. And there has been improvement with Brazoban as a result of that patience being shown. What I am advocating is showing that kind of patience with Jackson -- in the majors. That is all.
2005-09-13 21:58:47
333.   Marty
If Navarro is not at the game, then I forgive Tracy, but not Phillips
2005-09-13 21:59:12
334.   oldbear
Why didnt Buntermaker pinch hit for Phillips?

And why waste Antonio Perez as a pinch runner? Now he cant bat in the 9th.


Hopefully Jason Phillips is done for the year. I hate that guy.

2005-09-13 21:59:27
335.   DaveP
this is where we would benefit from having Todd Donovan on the expanded roster for purely pinch running duties.

and Phillips strikes out. Someone poke Tracy and inform him that Phillips is doing a Lo Duca impersonation and is tanking in September.

2005-09-13 22:00:24
336.   dzzrtRatt
The doll is safe from Xeifrank saliva. As he knew it would be. However, I'm sure Tracy thought it was a great at-bat.

Why waste Perez as a runner, Tracy? He hits rings around Myrow and Phillips! Appreciate that Myrow got a timely walk, but knowing Phillips was up next, Tracy should've known a walk wasn't enough!

2005-09-13 22:00:51
337.   ddger
We do have Rose as backup catcher. Tracy must really dislike AP as PH too. Tracy wanted to give Phillips chance to be a hero but it could end up costing us the game.
2005-09-13 22:02:13
338.   Bob Timmermann
Perez could bat in the 9th.

It would take some doing, but his spot could come up.

He would be the 8th hitter in the 9th. The Dodgers would have to score two runs, load the bases, and then make two outs.

Perez would bat with either a chance to end the game or to keep it tied.

Jason Phillips cannot bat in the ninth.

(Unless of course the Rockies score another run, then you add one.)

2005-09-13 22:03:57
339.   King of the Hobos
3 outs, can we do it? Werth-(Saenz)-Aybar-Robles before Kent, I don't like our chances unless everyone is patient and gets on base with 0 or 1 out. We don't need bombs, they're not exactly flying out of DS tonight
2005-09-13 22:04:19
340.   ddger
I wonder what Tracy will say in the postgame interview on why he PR with Perez and not used him as PH.
2005-09-13 22:05:05
341.   Xeifrank
it's almost as if Tracy is managing this game like we were already mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:06:02
342.   JeffinTokyo
What makes me so mad is that my disdain for Tracy is on the verge of overriding my Dodger fandom. That is, I was oddly satisfied when Phillips struck out again.
2005-09-13 22:07:04
343.   DaveP
anyone still in denial should ask their doctor to lower their dosage.
2005-09-13 22:07:11
344.   King of the Hobos
Werth going down so easily cannot be good. Hopefully Saenz can do something
2005-09-13 22:08:01
345.   Xeifrank
341. "this game" should read "this season", now that I think about it. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:10:32
346.   DaveP
Saenz might need a walker to get back to the dugout. Almost painful to watch him take his hacks up there.
2005-09-13 22:11:46
347.   regfairfield
Please let us get to Kent.
2005-09-13 22:12:17
348.   JeffinTokyo
Take one for the team Oscar.
2005-09-13 22:13:44
349.   Gen3Blue
Not a time to take pitches!
2005-09-13 22:14:18
350.   Louis in SF
This was the place to use Perez and we could have pitch run everyone's favorite Grabowski or even a pitcher, Weaver....You know it is not your night when you get hit by a pitch but swing for a strike, then you get a double which will probably be meaningless. Bad night bad game, but glad the Giants won.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-09-13 22:15:08
351.   King of the Hobos
Fuentes had several terrible strike calls, no way Robles struck out, all 3 called strikes were questionable
2005-09-13 22:15:32
352.   regfairfield
Well, the last pitch was completely unhittable.

Of course, the horrible defense that DePodesta left us with cost us this game.

2005-09-13 22:16:02
353.   oldbear
If we had a competenant manger, Choi and Antonio Perez would both be starting tomorrow.

Robles needs a day off. He's hit a wall.

Tracy should be asked point blank why he didnt pinch hit for Phillips, and why Myrow started ahead of Choi.

Only 15 games left for Buntermaker. I cant wait till he's gone.

2005-09-13 22:16:27
354.   Xeifrank
Well, after all is said and done the Giants and Padres are still the only teams that control their own destiny in the NL West. Funny seeing Jason Phillips sitting there in the dugout with his blank stare while everyone else has already gone back in to the clubhouse. Probably saying to himself, I hit much better with RISP when I start at 1B instead of catcher. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:18:46
355.   Xeifrank
Someone needs to start a Fire Jim Tracy blog. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:19:13
356.   coachjpark
Seriously, why WASTE Antonio Perez as a PH??????

Tracy is a moron. That needs to be repeated over and over again and again.

Tracy needs to go. This is beyond ridiculous. We should be 4 games back.

1-Perez SS
2-Aybar 3B
3-Choi 1B
4-Kent 2B
5-Cruz RF
6-Werth CF
7-Ledee LF
8-JP C

Is there anything wrong with this lineup????
I think there are about 37 better lineups possible that could have been fielded that was better than JT's today? Am I wrong here? Is JT trying to sabotage the team? What's the deal?

Tomorrow, we're going to see Myrow, Valentin and Edwards in the lineup somehow with Phillips batting cleanup....

2005-09-13 22:19:38
357.   oldbear
342. I echo those sentiments. I cant bring myself to root for the team next year if Tracy is still here.

I'll just devote my time to the A's.

2005-09-13 22:19:54
358.   JeffinTokyo
Do I think Tracy is solely to blame for tonight's game?
No I do not. Errors and Edwin were key factors.

Do I think he deserves a significant amount of the blame?
I don't like playing the blame game (well, actually when it comes to baseball I kinda do like to play it), but I would have to say yes. Myrow for Choi. Phillips left in to strike out, wasting their best hitter on the bench as a pinch runner (wasn't Repko available to run?)

2005-09-13 22:20:39
359.   tracyapologist
there appears to be an amazing lack of acceptance here tonite. I particularly like all the complaints about perez and choi. Seems to me the loss tonite has something to do with a 22 year old "pitcher" who gave up 6 runs in one inning.
2005-09-13 22:20:43
360.   coachjpark
Of course, let's get Dioner back in the game tomorrow to replace JP of course....
2005-09-13 22:20:48
361.   King of the Hobos
I'm happy for Navarro, don't get me wrong, but I would have really liked him in there. Phillips struck out in two crucial situations, Navarro at the very least tends to put the ball in play if he deosn't walk. But not Phillips. This seemed more like a game where Tracy just didn't have what he needed to win, more than anything else. Perez and Choi may have helped, but it's hard to say. And I refuse to blame Robles for that K, I don't how he could do anything with it. The ump called several of those strikes, at least 5-6, and I doubt half of them were
2005-09-13 22:21:27
362.   Xeifrank
356. Sad thing is, I don't Buntermaker realizes the mistakes he's been making on a consistent basis this whole season. The question is, who is responsible for firing Buntermaker, Depo or McCourt? vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:22:36
363.   coachjpark
359. Isn't it partly Tracy's blame for the late hook? I'm no Frank Robinson fan and his yanking of pitchers in the first inning, but he should have had Dessens warming up the first sign of trouble... so we can even put some blame on JT for letting EJ get to that point.
2005-09-13 22:24:40
364.   JeffinTokyo
He probably should have had Dessens in there to START the first inning.
2005-09-13 22:25:02
365.   ddger
Wasn't that throw by Ledee catchable by Phillips also. That and Cruz's drop ended up costing us 5 runs in the 2nd inning.
2005-09-13 22:25:30
366.   Xeifrank
I think Buntermaker needs to put more WD40 on his Magic 8 Ball. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:26:07
367.   regfairfield
365 I don't think you can fault Phillips for that drop, he pretty much had no chance.
2005-09-13 22:27:42
368.   tracyapologist
I think people need to gain some perspective here with antonio perez. Hes not a .317 hitter. While using him as a pinch runner when repko was on the bench was a waste, he was not the best PH option off the bench, Saenz was. That said, I can understand why a manager wouldnt want to pinch hit for his catcher. If bako, or rose, were catching tonite, would anyone be complaining? There is no reason to get all excited about this.
2005-09-13 22:28:43
369.   Bob Timmermann
Do you folks truly enjoy spending all of your waking hours complaining about Jim Tracy? Aren't you worried about developing subdural hematomas over your consistent banging of your heads against a wall?

If you need Tracy to be your designated Bogeyman for the Dodgers being five games out of first, then I suppose whatever gets you through the night. Sheesh.

2005-09-13 22:30:42
370.   regfairfield
368 Saenz, despite his .880ish OPS has been rather horrible of late. People keep saying that AP will slow down, but, I haven't seen it.
2005-09-13 22:32:33
371.   tracyapologist
363. Your starting to reach for reasons to hate tracy. One legitamite complaint about tracy is that with any real chance at winning gone, why not give some of the new and young guys a chance to play to see what they can do. Why are you complaining that Jackson shouldve been taken out so early, or myrow shouldnt play? If the game was a "must win" then yes, pull him at the first chance of trouble, but this team will not win the division.
2005-09-13 22:34:25
372.   oldbear
359. True, but in the things that Jim Tracy can control (the lineup).. He again was terrible.

A manager's job is to put his team in the best position to win. From there on out, its up to the players to execute.

The Manager failed yet again tonite.

2005-09-13 22:34:57
373.   King of the Hobos
365 Cruz's drop actually cost us 1 run. It would have been the 2nd out, the 3rd out would have been after 5 runs scored, Sullivan being the only one missing. We would have lost either way
2005-09-13 22:38:26
374.   tracyapologist
370. perez has hit 233/282/349 over his last 43 ab's. You could argue that he was given unstable playing time, but then again PECOTA was only pegging Perez for a 260 eqa this season.
2005-09-13 22:41:07
375.   Gen3Blue
I wrote a bitter note and then had the good sense to delete it.

We picked an unfortunate night to discuss Jackson, but maybe there is a lesson there regarding becoming too enamored of prospects. Its likely fortunate we didn't give ridiculous money to Hochevar given our experience with touted arms in the 80's and 90's. About the only one to make the Majors was Dreiffert.

2005-09-13 22:41:19
376.   King of the Hobos
If it makes any of you feel better, the Royals lost in the same fashion as us. They left a man on 2nd as they fell to the White Sox 6-4. Comparing us to the mighty Royals should be a great honor...
2005-09-13 22:41:36
377.   Strike4
Next year's success will not rely on promoted farmhands, comebacks from injuries or FJT. It will depend on how a conversation goes, around four weeks from now…

FMcC: Paul, for 2005 I told you to keep payroll down and win the division again, in that order. You got the primary goal done, so you're safe for 2006.

Depo: Tough to do both. I'm excited about the $30 million in freed up payroll funds, and now I've got some buying to do for 2006.

To finish, choose from:

A -- FMcC: Go for it. L.A. fans gotta have a winner to come to the park. And remember my revelation… get players with character.

B -- FMcC: Uh, wait. Turns out our revenues are dropping and I've got a stadium to refurbish further. Hold the spending and bring up the farm guys. I've got bills to pay.

C -- FMcC: Uh, wait. You told me this year's story was injuries and one bad apple. Hold the spending and bring up the farm guys. I've got bills to pay.

D -- FMcC: Uh, wait. Per the Dodger Thoughts mantra, just fire Tracy and start Choi at first. Hold the spending and bring up the farm guys. I've got bills to pay.

E -- Fill in your own.

Ouch, many scary rationalizations are available to morph further into Donald Sterling and the Clippers.

Here's hoping for building a legitimate championship caliber team next year.

2005-09-13 22:41:51
378.   oldbear
371. Myrow isnt a 'young' guy though. He's a career minor leauger just like Mike Edwards is.

Phillips should have been pinch hit for by Perez because we stil had Rose on the bench to catch.

The things that Jim Tracy can control (the lineup), he's awful at. Fire him. Leaving in Gio Carrara for a 3rd inning... Not smart either. Luckily Osoria bailed him out.

AP may not be a career .317 hitter, but he's hitting with an OPS over .800. Which is more than i can say for what Robles, Phillips are doing.

Tracy has no use, even though he's in a perfect spot to do smart things.

Choi/AP are not only our best options to win games right now, but they are worthy enough to use time on to develop for the future.

Valentin, Myrow, Phillips, Edwards, Repko-- they arent either.

2005-09-13 22:42:59
379.   tracyapologist
what was so terrible about todays lineup, myrow? he took 2 walks and scored a run. Choi's the better player, but i doubt seriously that he wouldve made a huge difference.
2005-09-13 22:44:52
380.   Jon Weisman
332 - I've long thought Jackson could have been used as a major league reliever and let him work on things there, somewhat the way Brazoban did during his mini-slump (although the way the press characterized things was ridiculous). I wouldn't mind seeing that happen at this point.

Maybe Jackson should start in 2006 - I don't know. But I don't really see the point of deciding that today. It's very hard for me to believe that Jackson's problem is the threat of being demoted. He's 22 - the lesson he needs to learn is concentrate wherever he is.

2005-09-13 22:49:47
381.   King of the Hobos
378 Just to point it out, Myrow is not a career minor leaguer. That assumes you've been in the minors for an extended amount of time. Myrow's been in the minors since he was 24, he won't be a 6 year minor league FA until next year. Edwards had something like 11 years in the minors. So where was Myrow before the 24? Indy Ball. That's even wosre...
2005-09-13 22:50:12
382.   Jon Weisman
369 - I've got to agree with Bob. It's become more painful to read the anti-Tracy comments than watch the losses - even when I agree with some, or even especially when I agree with some. The level of anger is over the top. I don't think the same points need to be made over and over and over again.
2005-09-13 22:51:22
383.   Xeifrank
369. We all have our different ways of blowing off steam on any given night, and for many of us tonight it's whining about Jim Tracy and perhaps for you on occasions it's worrying about thermal nuclear war or correcting everyone's grammar. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 22:52:49
384.   tracyapologist
Valentin, Edwards, Phillips, ya, there not going anywhere. But repko, and especially myrow should be given a chance to see if they could fill a role off the bench next season. Look at what Perez did in Vegas last year and then at what Myrow did this year. Myrow may have it in him to be a left-handed saenz. Just for the record, Repko is one year younger than perez and two years younger than choi.
One problem with the anti-Tracyism is that you dont bother to balance his mistakes with his successes. Case in point; bringing Osoria in. Not all managers would let the young, "unproven" kid take over in the tough spot, but Tracy made the right move in going for the extreme groundballer with good control. Or pinch running for myrow with perez.
2005-09-13 22:53:06
385.   coachjpark
379. "what was so terrible about todays lineup, myrow?"

YES, THAT'S THE POINT. We're not in "play the young guys, we're not in a division race mode." In fact, EVEN if we were in that mode, there's a strong argument to be made to start Choi and Perez. Tracy fails to field his best lineup AND fails to put in the young guys.

2005-09-13 22:53:37
386.   JeffinTokyo
369. Bob, speaking for myself I do not spend my waking hours dwelling over Tracy. Just during Dodger games and for a little bit afterwards. And it certainly doesn't get me through the night. I just want me favorite team to be run more competently. Just like I want my country to be run competently. Unfortunately, in both cases, that is not happening right now.
2005-09-13 22:56:23
387.   JeffinTokyo
corrections: dwelling on, my favorite team.
2005-09-13 22:57:26
388.   coachjpark
Hard to talk about anything else besides Tracy's blunders.... I know it's been repeated over and over again... it's just that he seemed to be getting the point and making a consistent lineup, and then he pulls the Myrow card out of nowhere.....

In today's pre-game radio show, Weaver was asked why he thought they were doing well at this point. His answer was that the lineup was more consistent and players were easing into their roles, which I thought was a subtle dig at Tracy's "pick a lineup out of a hat" antics.

Anyhow, Tracy isn't completely to blame, of course. BUT, Perez pinch-running? Why? Why? He essentially puts him in there for "defensive purposes," which completely defeats the purpose of not putting him in there in the first place. Mind-boggling.

2005-09-13 23:01:31
389.   Xeifrank
388. Yes mind-boggling. Too much sniffing of the WD40 is the only excuse I can come up with. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:02:41
390.   coachjpark
I'll be on DodgerTalk within the next 15-20 minutes.... I want to see what A Martinez has to say about this...
2005-09-13 23:03:15
391.   Linkmeister
I'm completely at a loss to understand what the deal is with Choi. I just looked at the stats over at ESPN and he's got 294 AB all year, 2 behind Werth and Robles. The latter two guys were late additions to the team, due to Werth's injury and Robles' mid-season callup.

What was the point of getting him in the trade last year if he wasn't gonna be in the lineup? Heck, he's got 14 HR, 3rd on the team behind Drew and Kent.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

2005-09-13 23:04:32
392.   tracyapologist
Perez pinch hitting was the only option that left other options open in the 9th. I think that we can all agree that pinch running for myrow was a good idea. If he used repko, who would play 1st? He wouldve had to put saenz in for repko at the end of the inning, burning his last decent pinchhitter. What would you have done in that situation?
2005-09-13 23:05:19
393.   coachjpark
391. Join the club. I don't think Jon likes our posting of Choi comments/Tracy bashing, but if you're following the Dodgers, what else can your really talk about at this point in the season?
2005-09-13 23:06:09
394.   Steve
Well, that was...not much of a game.
2005-09-13 23:06:45
395.   Xeifrank
392. Kent plays 1b. Bob pointed that one out right away. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:07:28
396.   tracyapologist
392. who plays second?
2005-09-13 23:07:32
397.   coachjpark
1. Put Phillips at first if you have to... and put Rose in at catcher and then pinch-hit his spot.

2. Put Saenz at first.

3. Put Repko at first.

4. Put Grabowski at first... remember how he got the start over Choi at the beginning of the season.

There were several options available. And, really, who cares? Throw Jeff Weaver at first. We need runs. We don't need Gold-Glove defense at first.

2005-09-13 23:08:07
398.   Xeifrank
394. Steve, in what inning did the FJT chant start? vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:08:19
399.   regfairfield
392 Don't believe I'm about to say this, but if you just needed a warm body at first, Grabowski could have played there.
2005-09-13 23:08:57
400.   coachjpark
Anyone want me to ask a question to A?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-09-13 23:09:31
401.   Xeifrank
Jim Tracy:
vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:10:17
402.   Steve
Statement the First: Whatever is wrong with the Dodgers, booing Edwin Jackson off the mound is not going to fix it.
2005-09-13 23:11:03
403.   Xeifrank
400. Yeah! Ask him about starting Myrow over Choi at 1b. Ask him about pinch running APerez. Ask him if he thinks Tracy will be back next year. Ask him what the WD40 in Tracy's office is for. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:12:10
404.   Steve
FJT takes on all comers:


2005-09-13 23:12:57
405.   coachjpark
A agreed with me over the Myrow decision. He said that with the Perez decision that it left Antonio in the game and his spot would have come up. Kind of a weak answer, but at least he defended the Choi choice.
2005-09-13 23:13:34
406.   tracyapologist
options 1 and 2 leave you without a pinch hitter in the ninth inning. Repko doesnt play 1st. Grabowski sucks defensively, and anyway espn's website says hes on the DL.
Its fine to to think that other creative options(really, weaver?), but the point is, are you going to fire tracy because he didnt play weaver or repko at 1st? The fact is, tracy's plan left the team with a better defensive infield in the top 9th, AND a pinch hitter and pinch runner for the bottom of the 9th.
2005-09-13 23:14:06
407.   Steve
Statement the Second: When Choi came up in the fourth inning, and the chant started up, my three-year-old turned around and said "Daddy, you like Hee Seop Choi!"
2005-09-13 23:14:37
408.   Xeifrank
405. Cool, you got on. Yeah, a weak answer on APerez as he was due to bat something like 8th, and as Bob pointed out he only would've come up if we scored two runs, had two outs and the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th. vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:15:51
409.   Xeifrank
407. haha, very cute. What did he say when Jim Tracy came to the mound? :) vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:16:07
410.   coachjpark
406. Put Repko in Center, Werth at first. Or put Cruz at first, Repko in Center, Werth in right.

Who gives a rat's behind about a better defensive infield?????

2005-09-13 23:17:18
411.   coachjpark
At least I got free Dodger tickets. Yay. I think I might post them on eBay like the rest of my season tickets....
2005-09-13 23:17:31
412.   oldbear
Steve would did you think of letting Phillips hit, and burning AP as a pinch runner?

If ever a shining example of a "fire jim tracy" game, today's would be one.

Sad that Dodgers fans booed Edwin Jackson off the mound. I hope they booed louder when JP struck out.

2005-09-13 23:17:40
413.   Xeifrank
If APerez hits for Phillips, why can't he move to 2b, kent move to 1b and our 3rd string catcher come in? Or am I missing something here?? Which is always highly likely. :) vr, Xei
2005-09-13 23:20:13
414.   coachjpark
Good Tracy criticism on Dodger Talk right now....
2005-09-13 23:20:45
415.   Steve
Statement the third: The "strike two" to Robles in the ninth was an insult to the umpiring profession. It wasn't a strike to any of my kids, much less a full-grown major league baseball player.
2005-09-13 23:21:36
416.   coachjpark
413. That move would have been too logical. And pinch-hit for JP? You kidding me? That would undermine Tracy's attempts at putting Phillips in at 1B in previous games.
2005-09-13 23:22:43
417.   tracyapologist
Cruz or Werth at first? You want a guy fired because he doesnt want to play guys completely out of position. I seem to remember that the world champion red sox gave a rat's ass about late inning defense last year in the playoffs. You can argue that he should've pinch hit for phillips with saenz, and ran repko for myrow. But to characterize his move as an unforgivable or much worse than the alternative, is wrong.
2005-09-13 23:23:30
418.   oldbear
406. Yep AP wouldnt have even gotten to the plate, unless the Dodgers almost batted around while only scoring 2 runs... That makes no sense.

Here's what should have happened:

#1. A. Perez PH's for Phillips.
#2. Rose comes in to catch for Phillips.
#3. Why even pinch run for Myrow? He earlier went 1st to 3rd on a hit to CF. Its not like he's really slow.

Saenz would still be on the bench to hit in the 9th.

Pinch running for Myrow was stupid.

2005-09-13 23:27:17
419.   Steve
Now, explain why Saenz can't come in to hit for Phillips? Because I don't really understand. Save Saenz for the game situation that may or may not (but is likely not) to arise, against the Rockies best relief pitcher, but don't use him in the actual real live game situation right in front of you? I'm assuming that's not the argument, because that is a very goofy argument.
2005-09-13 23:28:59
420.   tracyapologist
413. Tracy doesnt like to use his last catcher and. You could blame him for that, but its not like that a something most managers do. And really, thats the point, name the manager that wouldve played weaver or repko or werth at first. All im trying to say here is that this move is not indefensible.
2005-09-13 23:30:54
421.   Steve
Why couldn't Repko run for Myrow? Is he hurt?
2005-09-13 23:32:42
422.   oldbear
419. Good point. Repko pinch runs for Myrow. Saenz pinch hits for Phillips. Rose comes in for Repko and catches. Saenz stays in and plays 1st base.

That would probably be the simplest thing to do as well.

2005-09-13 23:36:58
423.   oldbear
420. Jim Tracy not using his last catcher? Have you forgotten all the games that Phillips played 1st, and Navarro caught? That means Tracy has used up all his catchers from the beginning of the game.
2005-09-13 23:37:08
424.   tracyapologist
419. Tracy didnt want to use his last catcher, simple-minded but not rare among major league managers. Also, how is the 9th inning likely not to arise? Are you assuming that saenz wouldve won the game. I cant imagine why tracy would rather have saenz hit against the lefty Fuentes rather than the righty DeJean. Perhaps its the 100 points of OBP improvment Saenz has against lefties as opposed to righties.
2005-09-13 23:38:06
425.   tracyapologist
423. Phillips could always move from 1st to catcher mid-game. Not that im going to defend tracy using phillips at 1st, that impossible.
2005-09-13 23:40:19
426.   Steve
And here's the other thing. You can talk all you want about saving player A, B, or C for whatever random occurrence you want in the ninth inning, but the bottom line is that Jim Tracy doesn't let Jason Phillips hit in the eighth inning because he's some kind of Garry Kasparov in cleats. He lets Jason Phillips hit in the eighth inning because he believes that Jason Phillips can hit, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Phillips's first at-bat against Sunny Kim with RISP was actually kinda decent. It was like 10 pitches before Kim blew him away.

2005-09-13 23:41:50
427.   coachjpark
I think Mr. Tracyapologist is pouncing on my "out-of-position" defensive arguments without realizing that I'm basically saying that about ANY OTHER decision other than the one Tracy made would have been better.

1. Myrow stays in the game.
2. Repko pinch runs, Saenz pinch-hits, have Rose replace Repko's spot and have Saenz at first.

As for Tracy "saving" his backup catcher??? What about all the games that JP started at first base. Remember what a "precarious" situation we were in when Phillips was injured at 1B and had to leave the game. Starting 2 catchers at the same time is a pretty risky proposition, IMO.

2005-09-13 23:42:04
428.   Steve
Perhaps its the 100 points of OBP improvment Saenz has against lefties as opposed to righties.

Except that it's never seemed to bother him before this year.

2005-09-13 23:47:58
429.   tracyapologist
The closer coming in the 9th inning to close out the game is not a "random occurance". Whether tracy thinks Phillips can hit or not(id like to point out that PECOTA expected a 260 eqa for both phillips and perez) and tracy does think phillips can hit, most managers wouldve done the exact same thing. Which gets to one of the weaknesses of the whole ditch-tracy bandwagon; Tracy's not any worse than the average major league manager, if anything he's better.
2005-09-13 23:48:25
430.   Steve
On another note, the Times in their Notes tomorrow finally puts in what "Mr. Credibility" left out yesterday:

"Interestingly, Karros could not win the everyday first base position from Choi when the two were teammates with the Chicago Cubs in 2003."

2005-09-13 23:50:00
431.   coachjpark
Jim Tracy is probably better than:

1) Frank Robinson
2) Dusty Baker

Anyone else on this list that belongs? I would venture to say Jim Tracy is probably in the bottom third of managers....

2005-09-13 23:57:06
432.   tracyapologist
428.Im not sure i completely understand this post(did tracy not pinch hit saenz against lefties last year?). Either way, the point here is not to insult tracy, but to analyze his moves. Are you arguing that saenz is stronger against lefties, or is tracy realizing how to saenz can mash lefties a bad thing.
427. Like i explained before, saving the last catcher is not an unusual practice. As for your contention that ANY course of action would have been better. How does myrow stay in the game, but repko pinch hits?
2005-09-13 23:57:25
433.   Bob Timmermann
You say Tracy is better than Robinson or Baker, yet both of them have teams with better records than the Dodgers.
2005-09-13 23:59:45
434.   oldbear
432. Well tonite's game is over and we cant do anything about it.

The optimist in me believes the Giants will sweep the Padres tomorrow. I think we can find a way to win tomorrow behind Houlton.

Then Lowe/Penny in SF. Here's to another 3 game winning streak.

2005-09-14 00:03:52
435.   Steve
Your argument is based on a false premise. Tracy has been using Saenz against RHP, in both pinch-hitting and starting situations, for virtually the whole season. In some fairly recent famous cases, this extreme has been carried to the point that Saenz has come in instead of Choi in key pinch-hitting situations against RHP. Your argument might be your argument, in other words, but it could not be Jim Tracy's argument.

The same goes for your "won't use the last catcher" argument. 427 accurately stated that it is an odd way to protect your two catchers by playing them both. Again, this could be your argument, but it could not be Jim Tracy's argument.

You are not analyzing -- you are making excuses, much like blaming Adrian Beltre's failure to hit in the AL on the designated hitter rule.

2005-09-14 00:05:30
436.   Steve
Now, I have a real question, since I have a feeling that letting Phillips hit is going to be "defensible" no matter how ludicrous the defense:

The Times reports that:

William Shatner and opera star Frederica von Stade will sing the theme to "Star Trek"

How do you sing the theme to Star Trek?

2005-09-14 00:06:01
437.   oldbear
432. Our best chance to tie the game was in the 8th inning. You cant save hittters hoping something better will come along in the 9th. I'd rather have Saenz at the plate than Jason Phillips. I'd also rather have AP up than JP.

430. Its either or in terms of Repko. Either Repko pinch runs, Saenz pinch hits. and Rose comes in to catch.


AP pinch hits for Phillips directly. Rose comes in to catch.


Saenz pinch hits for Phillips directly.
Rose comes in to catch.

You dont let Jason Phillips hit with 2 outs in the 8th ip, down 2 runs...with RISP. When you have Saenz/AP both sitting on the bench, along with a catcher that can fill in for JP. You just dont do it. It was terrible managing.

2005-09-14 00:11:22
438.   Steve
By the way, this is occurring at the Emmys.
2005-09-14 00:19:51
439.   ddger
Jackson was wild and ineffective (defense sure didn't help). Should Tracy give him another start if we are still in the race? Is there any other option?
2005-09-14 07:50:17
440.   Xeifrank
429. Just because there might happen to be worse managers is no excuse for us being happy with a bad manager. That's just a piss poor argument. vr, Xei
2005-09-14 07:57:31
441.   Colorado Blue
I'd have booed Jackson off the mound: how many hitters did he loose when he was ahead in the count 0-2?

439 - Dessens. Sure, he may not like it, but suck it up... we need to win the few remaining games we have left. I'm not impressed with Jackson at all. I'm not sure he's even trade fodder anymore.

2005-09-14 08:00:12
442.   Colorado Blue
I'm not sure what the "save your last catcher" argument is all about... save him for what? The game was on the line and we need to win them all. I find it ridiculous. If you always save him then you never use him.

Besides, in a huge pinch Werth could catch.

2005-09-14 08:01:07
443.   Colorado Blue
441 - "lose" not "loose"
2005-09-14 08:02:13
444.   Colorado Blue
Did Cruz get an error on the line drive he dropped? He was a victim of the lights... I thought it was quite obvious.
2005-09-14 08:07:31
445.   Sam DC
I realize the timing's a challenge, but still I'm surprised that no one has offered on Steve's comment on the Shaming of the Emmys. That is, um, surprising to say the least.
2005-09-14 08:11:38
446.   Sam DC
Oh, and this link is tucked into the post up at Catfish Stew -- it's pretty funny.
2005-09-14 08:11:56
447.   still bevens
This was probably written about already, but Plaschke is firing on all the cliched cylinders today. McCourt is cheap, DePo is a nerdy hater running around trying to undermine Tracy at every angle with his laptop, the trade last year was heinous etc etc.zzzzzzzzzzz.


2005-09-14 08:26:55
448.   Marty
Here's a link to Uhura singing the them

2005-09-14 08:28:08
449.   Marty
Make that theme
2005-09-14 08:52:30
450.   Steve

That was nightmarish. I recommend it to all.

Here is what my research uncovered. This was all a Roddenberry plot.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-09-14 08:59:13
451.   Kayaker7
I just could not take it anymore. I fired off an e-mail to Plaschke about his latest gem.
2005-09-14 09:04:01
452.   Sam DC
450 Thank you, Steve. If anyone's thinking about not clicking the link, here's a sample of what your missing:

. . . Strange love a star woman teaches.

2005-09-14 09:04:45
453.   Sam DC
you're, you're, you're
2005-09-14 09:16:16
454.   Kayaker7
450 LOL. Didn't know Roddenberry had his hard side.

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