That's hilarious. I admit that of all former Dodgers, Mondesi would rank high on my list of least probable politicians. Although like you pointed out, if it's a "strong-armed" government you want, Mondesi would be your guy.

Words cannot express my astonishment at the thought of Raul Mondesi being in charge of anything.

I understand Mario Guerrero has an agreement with Mondesi that would entitle him to 1 percent of Mondesi's mayoral powers.

The loss last night might have been the nail in the coffin for 2005. Now looking at 2006, who are the aribtiration Dodgers and who are the Dodger free agents (Weaver)? Other free agents?

Random Dodger Game Callback

September 15, 1955

Alex Grammas hit a bad hop single to drive in the winning run in the 12th inning at Busch Stadium to give the St. Louis Cardinals a 3-2 win over the Brooklyn Dodgers before a crowd of 5,684. Although it was the Dodgers fifth straight loss, the team had already clinched the National League pennant and they were 93-52 and 12 ½ games ahead of the Milwaukee Braves.

With the pennant in hand, Brooklyn manager Walter Alston decided to start 19-year old rookie lefthander Sandy Koufax. St. Louis manager Harry Walker countered with another rookie, Ben Flowers.

The Dodgers gave Koufax a lead in the third when third baseman Don Hoak tripled and shortstop Pee Wee Reese singled him home. But the Cardinals took the lead in the bottom half of the inning on back-to-back homers by Stan Musial and Rip Repulski. The home runs brought the NL home run total to 1,197, breaking the league record that had been set two years previously.

Alston did not want to burn out his pitching staff in a meaningless game, so he shuttled in relievers. Koufax pitched four innings, Don Bessent pitched two, Clem Labine another two, Roger Craig pitched three, and Chuck Templeton and Ed Roebuck pitched the twelfth.

The Dodgers tied the game in the eighth when Flowers walked Reese to lead off the inning. Center fielder Duke Snider singled Reese to third and right fielder Carl Furillo singled home Reese to tie the game. Larry Jackson relieved and was able to get out of the inning by getting Rube Walker to hit into a double play.

In the twelfth, Templeton walked Musial to start off the inning. Roebuck came in to relieve. Repulski singled Musial to second. Right fielder Joe Frazier sacrificed the runners over. Alston pulled the infield in and got catcher Nelson Burbrink to hit a grounder to shortstop Don Zimmer, who had taken over for Reese in extra innings, and Musial was out at the plate. Alston opted then to walk first baseman Wally Moon. Then shortstop Grammas hit a grounder to short that took a bad hop over Zimmer's head to allow Repulski to score the winning run.

Very little went wrong for the Dodgers in 1955. This five-game losing streak was their longest of the season. The team would win the National League with a 98-55 record, 13 ½ games better than Milwaukee. The Dodgers clinched the pennant on September 8 with 16 games left in the season and rested up for the World Series.

The team was a mixture of old stars that had been through a lot in Brooklyn, such as Reese and Jackie Robinson and Snider and Furillo. Catcher Roy Campanella won his third NL MVP award, batting .318 with 32 home runs and 107 RBI. Snider hit 42 home runs and drove in 136.

Don Newcombe had a stellar year on the mound. He was 20-5 with a 3.20 ERA. Carl Erskine was 11-8 with a 3.79 ERA. Labine had a 13-5 record in relief with a 3.24 ERA and led the league in appearances with 60. While Koufax was too young to make much of an impact, fellow rookie Craig had a good debut going 5-3 with a 2.78 ERA. Lefty Tom Lasorda pitched in just four games and had a 13.50 ERA. Lasorda was sent down to the minors so the Dodgers could carry Koufax on the roster. Under contract rules of the day, players signed for large bonuses, like Koufax, had to spend a certain number of years on the major league roster. Lasorda pitched earlier in the year when rosters were at 30 players. Teams did not have to go down to 25 players until a few weeks into the season.

Of course for Brooklyn fans, the 1955 World Series was "Next year". After losing in their last five World Series appearances, all against the Yankees, the Dodgers finally prevailed in seven games. The Yankees, who from 1923 until 1955 had appeared in 18 World Series and had lost just twice, (to the Cardinals in 1926 and 1942), were a seemingly unstoppable force.

The Yankees won the first two games of the Series in the Bronx, 6-5 and 4-2. But the Dodgers came back to Brooklyn and won three straight, 8-3, 8-5 and 5-3, to take the lead in the Series.

In Game 6, Whitey Ford bested Karl Spooner of the Dodgers, 5-1, thanks in part to a 3-run home run from Bill Showroom. The stage was set for Game 7 and the borough of Brooklyn prepared for the inevitable.

Alston started third year lefty Johnny Podres, who had won Game 3 against 36-year old lefty Tommy Byrne. Gil Hodges singled in a run in the fourth and had a sacrifice fly in the sixth to put Brooklyn up 2-0.

In the bottom of the sixth, Podres walked Billy Martin and gave up a single to Gil McDougald. Yogi Berra came up and lined a ball to left field which Sandy Amoros made a running catch on to rob him of an extra base hit and then threw back to first to double off McDougald.

With that catch, the Yankees threat was over. The Dodgers won Game 7. Finally, the World Series champion was located in Brooklyn.

Watching the World Series that year was a group of government officials from the City and County of Los Angeles. They were looking for a team to move west to their city, although the Dodgers were not the team they were interested in at the time. Presumably, it would be the Washington Senators. But Dodgers owner Walter O'Malley couldn't help but wonder why his World Champion team drew barely over a million fans to Ebbets Field.

Thanks to the New York Times, Baseball-reference, and Retrosheet.

Rip Repulski. That sounds like a comic book name.

That's future Dodger Rip Repulski!

The sausage race story is wonderful.

Bob, I half-expect to see the name Dash Riprock in one of these RDGCs

The original Google ad on this page was for the Wall Street Journal.

It's changed a lot since then.

The Cardinals had an affinity for Polish players for a while.

11 Hmm. Off the top of my head, Musial, Whitey Kurowski, Repulski.

Kinda like the Pirates in the 60s and 70s, with pitchers named Lamb, Moose, Veale.

With Lowe on the mound, I take it Tracy will field an all-defense team? The last time Tracy said that, Choi played first. Of course, Antonio did not start.

What an epochal RDGC, Bob (but Sam worries, could it really have been R?). Thank you, again, for taking the time to research and write these.

10 We haven't had the Ayn Rand dating service in some time . . .

12 Also, Ray Jablonski (whom Dizzy Dean called Jabbaloski), Eddie Kazak (one of the earliest palindrome names).

10 - Hot Dog Express...mmm...

I see nothing funny about the likelihood that Raul Mondesi is likely to be mayor of this town. I feel very bad for the people San Cristobal as someone like Raul Mondesi is probably about the quality of government that they can expect from their leaders. I worked in a lot of towns like these in Central and South America, and there is nothing funny about the completely ineffectual leadership that is present there, particularly at the municipal level.

1 Well, wasn't Fidel Castro a prospect in the early 50s? With the Pirate system?

Most baseball players who move onto politics become Republicans, not Communists. Maybe Mondesi will bring the blessings of laissez-faire economics to Santo Domingo.

I didn't realize there was a "professional" way to cook a hot dog.

18 - Raul Mondesi there, Lynn Swann here. Is this politics or The Superstars (generation test)?

You're welcome. The only nonrandom one was 1994.
There aren't many left. The last one is on the 27th. For those who are still brave enough to hang around watching the Dodgers until then.

20 - That Olmedo Saenz is a professional hitter and professional hot-dog cooker ...

21 I remember the Superstars competition. Does that make me old?

22 - Pitchers and catchers report in five months!

J.C. Watts
Robin Roberts
Jack Kemp
Bill Bradley
Steve Largent

Who am I missing?
So far, only Bradley is a Democrat

24 - it's all relative.

Most baseball players who move onto politics become Republicans, not Communists.

Because baseball players aren't a bunch of commie, pinko, pablum-puking America-haters!

Wally! Wally! Wally!

26 - Didn't Saxy run for something once?

26 -- Jim Bunning

24 If you watched the Superstars and couldn't remember, THAT would make you old.

Steve Sax ran for a northern California Assembly seat as a Republican and got toasted in the primary.

30 I wrote Robin Roberts and meant Jim Bunning. I'm an idiot.

26 -- And if you count him, Jim Ryun, the track star

I'm waiting for Terry Bradshaw to run for something. He'd fit right in with Louisiana politics.

Tom Osborne of Nebraska is a US House Rep.

Someday I'm gonna write a monograph about pro athletes and their political affiliation with the Republican party. I maintain it's innate selfishness as an athlete which causes them to fit right in. ;)

My name is Sushirabbit, and I am a Dodgers Fan.

18. That actually added to the humor for me.

By the way, how do we htmlify our numeric comments references? I looked on the 'pole page and didn't see anything about it.

All I want for Christmas is another starting ace....

Since Dale Murphy came up yesterday, it has been rumored for years that he would run for something from Utah, but it hasn't happened yet.

These are the strangest of possible games:
"Aybar and Robles and Cruz."
Trio of jerseys without any names,
Filling our injured guys' shoes.
Suddenly sporting their Dodger attire,
Causing the fans in the stands to inquire,
"How many new guys are we gonna hire?
To help us along as we lose."

Vinegar Bend Mizell was a Republican. But Pius Schwert was a New Deal Democrat. They both served in the House and played in the big leagues.

38
Vin had a long paean to Dale Murphy last night. I think he was visiting L.A.

Vin did not mention that Eric Karros was in town.

Vinegar Bend Mizell and Pius Schwert. My head is going to explode.

14, 22 Man, I am thickheaded today. I, err, guess it was more the year -- as so well encapsulated in your panoramic RDGC -- that was epochal, not necessarily the September 15, 1955, running-out-the-regular-season game that formed the core of the piece.

Crikey, I need some sleep.

Our Toaster admin Ken seems to have manager issues of his own.

I saw Dave Roberts speak at a luncheon a few years ago and had a flash that he could get himself elected mayor of Los Angeles. He comes off as both highly intelligent and personable. Don't know his party affiliation.

Now I think his chances would be better in Boston.

36 - Is a entire monograph really needed to explain why rich jocks are mostly Republicans?

4 Last night's loss really nailed (for me) Jon's point from a week or so ago... despite all our quibbles about the offense and various weird lineups, the simple fact is right now we have only 3 reliable starters. It's a complete crap-shoot for #4 and #5.

I don't want to go into next season with only 3 "reliable" starters (loosely quoted because Perez, Penny, and Lowe have all had their occasional issues). I would be stunned if the Dodgers don't offer Weaver arbitration -- but I'd also be surprised if he stayed. So where do our #4 and #5 come from?

I'm not willing to give two spots to rookies with potential. Other than Burnett, who's a free agent, and/or who do you think Depo might try to bring in via a trade?

There are going to be mighty few RDGCs left this year that aren't ones where the season is just being played out. If you realize that the Dodgers have been playing in the majors since 1884 and have been out of contention in September more often than they've been in contention, it's hard to land on a really great game.

Regarding baseball players who have gone into polirics, I remember reading that Walter Johnson ran for political office. Not sure if he was elected. Walter was also a broadcaster for the Washington Senators during the Depression. Along with his play by play duties he was the P.A. announcer at the ballpark. It is odd to hear him cut away from the broadcast to make a P.A. announcement that can be heard on the broadcast. Vin should be glad he works for the Dodgers instead of the Depression era Washington Senators.

Stan from Tacoma

Sorry to go so off topic, and sorry if this has already been addressed, but does anybody know when Eric Neel's Vin piece is going to run?

Thanks.

46 No, probably not. But it would make another good blog post for those days when I'm outta material. ;)

Anyone see the Q & A with Choi
http://tinyurl.com/98ehm
Favorite Athletes To Watch?
"I like a lot of home runs, a lot of walks. Patient hitters with high on-base percentages. Hitters like Bobby Abreu, Brian Giles, Lance Berkman, J.D. Drew. Good Major League pitchers don't give too many walks. I like patient hitters."
Hee should become the new hitting coach.

Hopefully Depo can add one of those guys to the team (in addition to Drew) in the offseason.

Sorry, Telemachos, "rookies with potential" will soon be taking over the Dodgers like the Borgias taking over a respectable Italian town, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. (Cue evil laugh.)

48 - Do you duplicate years? I find the context of the respective year that you include just as interesting as the actual game description.

I think Phil Jackson is a Democrat. But he's also a friend of Bill Bradley's.

Jim Ryun is in the House now. He's a Republican.

Ronald Reagan played Grover Cleveland Alexander in a movie with Doris Day, and he was a Democrat. Later on he became a Republican.

The Suns site, West Tenn site, and MiLB'com's schedule page all say no game today (although the Suns site has a different time for Friday's game). I think that boxscore page for the 15th is just an error, so no Suns Thoughts today

4
Dodger free agents after this season..

Paul Bako
Elmer Dessens
Darren Dreifort
Jose Valentin
Jeff Weaver
Jose Cruz Jr

Others I'm missing?

52 - I wonder if the Phillies would consider trading Abreu. Seems they've got some financial issues to deal with, and I just don't think they'll be able to trade Thome.

59 - For some reason (continued non-gritty excellence?), Abreu seems to be pretty strongly disliked in Philly. Er, I'd take him.

The Brewers are hitting Estes pretty hard, 3-0 in the 3rd, 2 runs came on a Lee homer

56 Later on he played a president. But not very well. After all, he was a bad actor.

54
Nope, no years are duplicated. It will just seem that way with the last few the way they shook out.

Did anyone Steve Garvey on the best dang sports show last night. He was looking awfully daper in his white Dodger Sweater.

He said something like, what Kent really neede to do with Bradley is take him into the shower. (not sure if he was referencing him and sutton, him and ladies or valdez and karros)

I met Garvey at a book signing at May Company in Thousand Oaks when I was 10. He was so nice and cool. I had my red sox little leauge jersey on and he ripped me for it! I'm like, but I am number 6. He just laughed....

I know I am in the minority, but I sure wish my two favorite ballplayers from the 70's were in the HOF. Garvey and Jim Rice.

I wonder if any team will offer Dreifort a contract. Has he ever said he plans to retire?

64 I can think of a couple of reasons why Kent might not have wanted to follow Garvey's advice.

58 Saenz and Erickson are also FAs.

I'm guessing we pick up Dessens' option,, and at least offer arbitration to Saenz, Weaver, and possibly Bako. I'd also guess DePo tries to negotiate a new contract with Cruz, because he'll get more than he's worth in arbitration. Dreifort, Valentin, and Erickson are all gone

65
If anyone offers Dreifort a contract, he should sign it as fast as he can and make sure it's guaranteed.

I'm pretty sure Dreifort is done. The Dodgers didn't even set up a locker for him this year. The Angels have one for Salmon and he appears on the bench from time to time, but Dreifort is a nonperson I believe.

57 - I thought it was odd that there'd be a game today. Thanks.

50 - Still TBD, I believe.

65 If he's healthy (or close to it), he'll be invited to ST, assuming he doesn't retire. He won't be offered an actual contract (unless someone gets way too desperate)

I'm hoping Martin makes the team out of ST. He did very well in ST this year. I was impressed. That would let them cut Bako and Rose loose, and possibly Phillips.

I realize 71 is wishful thinking.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dreifort try to go out on his own terms - sort of the way Alvarez wants to face his "one more batter." Dreifort could just go to Spring Training as an NRI and see what happened.

While Dreifort took the money, he didn't run - he kept trying to come back despite his ailments. A final comeback attempt without a guaranteed contract, even in vain, would cement that memory. I could easily see him trying.

Anyone know what happened with the Thurston trade? We'll have to get the PTBNL by the 29th of January (long time, I know), or go with a monetary amount. Has this been completed without my knowledge?

anyone else pulling for Alvarez to get back to the mound this year? I don't even care if he comes back and only throws one 75mph fastball - I like his attitude and his desire to come back and go out active and not on the DL. He seems like a genuinely good guy.

Don't they usually have an idea who the PTBNL will be in advance? Was there any scuttlebutt about that? Erick Almonte would have some poetic symmetry.

Since our Dodgers are toast can we switch and become Cleveland thoughts and root for them to overtake the CWS. That would be one awesome comeback and as of today they are only 4.5 back. If only we were the Indians, I like everyone on the team. Some great characters in Hafner who looks like a comic book drawn baseball player and Grady Sizemore who the Indians must be pleased that MB was not blocking his path. Then the great name of Coco Crisp. I can only hope that our Dodger team in the future is filled with players with the talent of the young Indians. The GM Shapiro has done a great job. Hafner/Sizemore/C Lee were all sweet deals and then he had the gall to let Omar go and install a rookie at SS who in his 1st year only trails Tejada in offensive ability.

Chad Moeller just had a bases clearing double, 8-0 Brewers, still in the 3rd inning

73 - you beat me to it Jon. Seeing Dreifort brought up made me think of Alvarez and his desire to go out pitching, not on DL.

I admire the way Dreifort kept trying. He was snake bitten with injury after injury and he could have packed it in, but kept trying to come back. Didn't work out well for the Dodgers, but I respect him.

I saw Dreifort's last game. Until then, he'd been a reasonably effective 7th inning set-up man, promoted to 8th inning after DePodesta traded Mota to Florida. But on this night, he was horrible, infuriating the crowd by bouncing pitches to the plate, and allowing the Marlins to go ahead in what had been a tight 2-2 game. It turned out his knee had gone out while he was pitching. Yeah, I can see him wanting to reverse that final major-league memory. It would be interesting to see if he can still pitch that heavy sinker.

#39, I liked that. What a great game. Poetry (Tinkers to Evers to Chance), music(Take Me Out to the Ballgame), epic novels (The Universal Baseball Association), epic poetry (Casey At the Bat), broadcasters whose words provide a perfect compliment to the extraordinary events they describe (Vin's call of Sandy's perfect game and Gibby's homerun). There is no other game even close to baseball in providing such a rich texture.

Stan from Tacoma

71I'd rather have Martin catching everyday in AAA until around July. He has only caught a few years as he was a 3rd baseman when he was drafted.
I like the way Navarro catches, he looks very polished.

77 The Indians still have 6 games left with the White Sox, and I personally am rooting for the Indians. I'd just be happy if the White Sox didn't make the playoffs, and I'd root for the Indians in the playoffs more than likely. For some reason, I like them a little more than the A's (who I'd also root for).

80
I was at the game. Not a good way to go out. Didn't he have multiple surgeries in the last year not just the knee. I understood that his whole body had broken down almost Humpty Dumpty like and they had to put him back together again.

74

You mean Brian Cashman didn't call you with the news? I have him on my speed dial.

Or else it's some guy who says he's Brian Cashman. Do you think Brian Cashman sometimes has his mother answer the phone?

Good thing the Nationals were so loaded with starting pitching that they could just dump two of them like Kim and Ohka:)

JJ Hardy is having a nice 2nd half and is starting to resemble a decent SS.

In the history of my past scorebook (August 1999-September 2005), the best pitched game I saw was a 2-hit shutout by Dreifort in St. Louis. Darrell Kile was the loser.

The Dodgers won 13-0. And you know what? When it's 13-0 and the weather is dodgy, Cardinals fans leave early.

With the bases loaded and a 3-1 count, Carlos Lee mercifully flew out to Gonzalez, 9-0 Brewers after 2.5

86 They also dumped Day. However, they picked up Stanton, Halama, and Drese, so all is forgiven

Yeah, as Dreifort's knee was healing from surgery, they found something wrong with his elbow.

83 I've never bought the idea of the White Sox as a great team. I figured their huge success earlier this year was a statistical quirk, kind of like how my MP3 player's random shuffle almost always puts "Shelter from the Storm" in the first 100 songs out of 1,400. Their demise would be an outcome I'd welcome.

Didn't Dreifort also have a hip injury? They had to stagger them because he would have been at too great a risk of developing a thrombosis.

Kinda like the White Sox in 2000, or the White Sox in '94, or...the stars kind of align over a previously fair-to-muddlin' Palehose team, and they make the playoffs, but never scare anyone.

My Dad was a White Sox fan, based on '59, when we lived outside Chicago. I don't think he followed a baseball team again until the 2002 Angels, but every so often he'd ask me how the White Sox were doing.

Sax was done in by his divorce.

http://tinyurl.com/8p38q

For all the credit that the Angels and White Sox get for their "small ball" ways, the real reason both teams are playing well is because the pitching has been pretty good.

The offenses are relatively mediocre (as far as runs scored).

The things you learn on Google. For instance, Wilt Chamberlain was a Nixon delegate in 68.

The '83 White Sox had a good run, I think they coined the term "winnin' ugly". Ron Kittle, Luzinski and Baines, I think, were the middle of the lineup.

And Jackie Robinson endorsed Nixon in 1960 and I believe Rockefeller in 1964.

98

IIRC, Robinson was a close friend of Rockefeller.

Chad Moeller has tripled, thus continuing his 6 straight seasons of exactly one triple (he's never had a year in the majors without one, and he's never had more than one). He's a homer and a single away from the cycle

The Brewers now lead 12-0 after 3.5 innings

Until 1964, African American voters had been splitting 50-50 between the two parties. The Democratic party's long association with the "little guy" sometimes meant adopting the little guy's racial attitudes--especially in the South, where the Dems were associated with slavery, Jim Crow and the Klan. But not just that. President Woodrow Wilson was an outrageous racist, for example. Things started to change with FDR, but both he and Kennedy crept very quietly around civil rights issues.

97 They also had that whale-sized pitcher, Lamar Hoyt.

95 A couple of weeks ago, the host of Angel Talk was swearing that the Angels had a top-5 offense. Someone called in to point out that they weren't even in the top 10, and he refused to believe the guy.

Some time later, he mentioned that they had checked the stats and that the Angels were in fact 11th in the league. But he was firmly steadfast in his pronouncements that the Angels were still one of the best offenses around.

Tony Clark is a Democrat

104

Did the Democrats offer him a really big contract for several years to entice him to change registration? And is he going to run for office somewhere keeping some younger more promising candidate from getting into office?

Brad Halsey pitching for the DBacks, did he lose his starting job when I wasn't looking? If he lost it to Estes or Ortiz...ouch, that would sting

The DBacks/Giants/Dodgers "rotations" now are at the stage of "Hey, who ya got ready today?"

2 hours to a Giants/Dodgers game and we are talking about athletes who became politicians. I imagine that both Lasorda and Vinny would be very disappointed and probably offer us a detailed history of the rivalry between these two teams. My impression is that most fans would not know a thing about the rivalry if it wasn't for those two ambassadors from the good old days.

101 - IIRC, Jimmy Carter won the GA governorship by making some remarks that could fairly reasonably be construed as racist, and which nobody could get away with today. Reagan did something similar to curry favor in the Southern primaries.

103 It would be interesting to see if the Angels small-ball stuff (I think it's more media hype than anything) has cost them on offense this year.

Really though, their offense is pretty mediocre. Finley stinks, Anderson is mediocre, Erstad is miscast as a 1B, etc.

108 - really, all you need is to meet a Giants fan (dodgerblues.com you can find plenty). They seem to take to the rivalry aspect more than most Dodger fans I've met. Since the Dodgers are the bete noire (bete bleu?) for most of the NL West, we have to swat several would-be gnats at once.

108 It might be different if this was a combined Dodger/Giant blog. Maybe next year Jon can figure out how to weave Dodger Thoughts with McCovey Chronicles for a blog-off during a Dodger-Giant series.

I think Mike Rose is much better than Yamid Haad.

111 -

I now live in Giant country. I did not realize the intensity level of the rivalry until I got up here. I think that, deep down, most Giant fans would rather beat the Dodgers than win a World Championship. But maybe that is because they do not remember what it is like to win a world championship.

108

I think if both teams were actually fighting each other for a playoff spot, then there would be some excitement.

As it stands, they are fighting to be the second best team in the worst division in baseball.

Yes, the Giants fans seem to often take the rivalry more seriously. It could be it's because they've never won anything since moving to that icebox up north. Bwhahahahaha!

112--
I looked at McCovey Chronicles the other day. They do not fit the civility requirement of Dodger Thoughts...best I could tell, you get in trouble if you do not use profanity on each post.

110 The term "small ball" or "little ball" was invented by Gene Mauch to describe his offensive approach when he managed the Angels.

As for this year, what choice does Scioscia have? He's got one legitimate power hitter now. Finley and Anderson have stopped producing. McPherson is hurt, and Kotchman isn't all there yet. But yeah, they've been getting some classy pitching from their starters.

115--
Playoffs or not, all Giant fans, young and old, seem to know that they are supposed to hate the Dodgers and all things Blue. Dodger fans seem to need regular reminders from Vinny and Tommy to remember our roots.

With the Dodgers and Giants playing a four game series, you can look for one of two things to happen. If one team takes 3 or 4 games then they will most likely still have an outside shot at the title with the other falling by the wayside. If they split, then it's a golden opportunity for the Padres to even further build upon their lead. My TI-36X gives both the Giants and Dodgers a 1.5625% chance of winning the NL West.
vr, Xei

111,116. I also think the reason Giant fans are more fanatical is because they havent won and have generally been on the wrong end history over the last 54 years. Id compare it to the Kings/Laker rivalry earlier in the decade, or the Sox/Yankee rivalry before last year. The "looser" in the relationship generally is more fanatical, i dont know if its jelousy or if the looser is more romantic storyline or something else.

Lineups out already...Tracy must be pretty confident.

No Choi, but also no Phillips, no Edwards, no Repko, no Myrow, no Valentin

At least Tracy seems to like Aybar

118. If you have a bad hitting team you have a bad hitting team, nothing you can do about it. His best choice is to start his best hitters. Something both LA managers seem to have a problem with. vr, Xei

117 I was at McCovey Chronicles last week as well... Jeff Kent has a different first name over there, starts with the letter F.

114--

I didn't even know there was supposed to be a Dodger/Giant rivalry until I moved up north for a few years in the late 80s. I always thought, y'know, the Reds, sure, or the Yankees of course, but the Giants? No more distasteful to me than the Brewers.

Of course, that explains why Giant fans are so vehement about it. And I've learned, of course, but I still think...please.

I feel much the same way about the Padres, still. I mean, do people anywhere chant "Beat S.D! Beat S.D?"

114 Giant fans might not know about winning a championship, but they sure know about losing one. Just say two words, "Game Six," to any Giant fan, and watch them crumble.

Choi not starting against a (not highly talented) right handed pitcher. Death, taxes and Choi riding the pine. The three certainties of life. vr, Xei

126 And "game seven" to any older fan who remembers 1962.

126
I use those words almost daily.

123 I don't follow Anaheim as closely as the Dodgers, but it doesn't seem to me that Scioscia has good hitters sitting on the bench that he isn't using like Tracy does. Unless, is Casey Kotchman the Hee Seop Choi of the Angels?

120--
Interesting...the Giants play a tougher schedule so it is interesting that the Dodgers and Giants have even odds.

I live in Padre country, and yes, they hate the Dodgers. Ted Leitner (Padre radio and sportstalk host) is absolutely ridiculous when he talks about the Dodgers.

1954 is always nice.

126 - Just whispering the name "Spiezio" has been known to send Giants fans whimpering into the fetal position. Interestingly, it also has the same effect on Mariners fans, but for very different reasons.

125 - rest assured Padres fans do not share the sentiment. I was stunned by the degree of Dodger bitterness felt by Pads fans. Strange. Talk about a situation demanding magnanimity...

Aybar 3B
Robles SS
Kent 2B
Ledee LF
1B Saenz
RF Cruz
C Navarro
CF Werth
P Lowe

vs

Winn CF
Vizquel SS
Alfonso 3B
Bonds LF
Durham 2B
Feliz 1B
Matheny C
Linden RF
Hennessey P

I don't follow them that closely either, but Scosia went with Finley for way too long. I'm guessing that kept someone better on the bench. Finley has killed them this year.

125. Had the same experience when I went to school in the Bay area in the late 80s/early 90s. Everyone hated LA sports teams and LA the city and it's people in general. They would always ask me, "what do LA people think about the Giants or SF in general". I would always tell them, a nice place to spend a weekend but other than that they don't really care about you one way or the other, they have more important things to worry about.
vr, Xei

Scioscia let Erstad hit (into a double play) with the bases loaded against an LHP late a game last week. Between that and Finley, perception is finally catching up to reality.

130. Steve Finley!

133 That was New York, so I don't count it 8^)

138 - Now, if only reality would catch up to their contracts.

135 The Dodgers line up positions is skill, I have no idea how that happened

I can justify, or at least defend, almost anything that tracy does. But reluctance to use choi (and by extension; his use of phillips at first) are simply impossible to defend. The best excuses i can think of, is that they want to pump up Saenz' raw stats to that he gets rated as a type II free agent, so they get a draft pick in exchange for him signing else where or perhaps to get a look at what Myrow can do. There are both fairly stupid.

Who will strike out more in this weekend series: Jayson Werth or Todd Linden?

The Angels bullpen is falling apart too. But I get the feeling that Oakland will not catch them this year. If the Angels get to the post season, I'll root for them.

144--In honor of the rivalry, I'll take Linden.

I think the intensity of hatred towards the Dodgers by SF and SD has lessened in the last decade or so. Remember a 20 year old fan has no rememberance of the Dodgers as being anything other than an average team.

133 Yeah, but it helps to remind those pesky Giants fans that the team hasn't won anything since moving to SF.

136 Kotchman isn't great, but in a very limited sample size, he is outhitting Erstad by quite a bit. At the very least, he has more power than Erstad. Erstad does have those intagibles though.

You can probably also argue that Juan Rivera deserved more ABs this year than Finley.

I'll bet I can take on any Giant fan in an invective contest.

145 -- I get that feeling too. Oakland is allergic to hitting.

Yeah, Finley's been terrible, a joke acquisition, but my question was more to the point of who the Angels had who was better. Did anyone ever agitate about perhaps moving Erstad to centerfield, and then putting Kotchman at first base? They seem to get no power from anybody but Vlad.

Did anyone ever agitate about perhaps moving Erstad to centerfield, and then putting Kotchman at first base?

That's been a common theme at the Angels blogs.

150 Rob over at 6-4-2 has lobbied for that very scenario I believe.

The DBacks got 2 runs with a Chad Tracy triple, but only after Jeff Cirillo homered in the top of the inning, 14-2 Brewers

148 Erstad can also bull over the catcher in a play at the plate. Am I the only one that thinks that was a dirty play? I mean, he had to reach out of the way to touch home plate, because the catcher was not even blocking the plate.

Anyway...back on topic, so when is Saenz going to break down from the overuse? He's already hobbling around like Ledee. Which bring me to the question, why is Ledee in the lineup when he looks like the walking dead. I never saw anyone act so lifeless as last night when he moseyed to first base after a groundout.

The Erstad to CF has been discussed quite a bit. I heard Joe McDonnell call it a stupid idea a few weeks ago (and he got a nice dig in at "Stupidesta" in the process).

What's Conor Jackson doing in the lineup in the middle of a pennant race?

John Kruk today on ESPN

"Curt Schilling is well on his way to becoming that stopping ace Boston will need come playoff time"

Just ignore that he's throwing 88.

154 Hopefully after he's classified a Type B FA (or even A if they want to be nice) and some AL team offers him a good deal of money to DH

Off to my final Dodgers game of the year. I too do much more reading than posting, and this site has been a wealth of entertainment and information in the course of a long, frustrating season. Hope to end my 2005 in-person record on a positive note. Splitting time in Hawaii and the Bay Area doesn't give me many chances to see the Blue in person, but I did get to witness a Weaver shutout in SF in April, a walk-off HR by Choi in June, and a horrible, listless 6-0 loss to the Giants in LA in July. One last bit of Dodgers satisfaction for the year, that's all I ask...

155 McDonnell... what a sellout. The Big Nasty about everyone in sports, except the Angels, since he's supposed to promote their broadcasts. He's a blot.

159 Hope you enjoy the game.

St. Louis is ahead of Chicago 3-0 in the 2nd. The Astros and Marlins are tied.

A St. Louis win and Houston loss punches the first ticket to the Big Dance!

Hall of Famers on the 1965 Dodgers:
Sandy Koufax
Don Drysdale

Hall of Famers on the 1965 Giants:
Willie Mays
Juan Marichal
Gaylord Perry
Warren Spahn
Willie McCovey
Orland Cepeda

1965 is a year that always frustrates fans of the Gints.

Another solid inning for Schilling

162 Tony LaRussa will not believe you though. ;-)

The Giants also had Jim Ray Hart in 1965. A very good third baseman. Mays, McCovey, Hart were 3-4-5 if I recall. I used to hate seeing Hart come up to bat.

The Dodgers had Sweet Lou Johnson in 65 though. The king of intangibles back then.

164 Curt Schilling, another baseballing Republican.

Tonight's line-up:

Aybar
Robles
Kent
Ledee
Saenz
Cruz
Navarro
Werth
Lowe

Could be just a coincidence, but Choi's playing time has a little correlation:

Saturday: Choi starts, W
Sunday: Choi starts, W
Monday: lefty, Choi not supposed to start, W
Tuesday: Choi sits against righty, L
Wednesday: Choi sits against righty, L

Hopefully tonight will break that trend since obviously Tracy has already forgotten about him again.

I think Lou Johnson may have been the progenitor of "Heart and Soul". And like the 21 st Century version of it, he got traded too.

Speaking of "Heart and Soul" how long has he been batting 8th for Florida?

Not too bad a lineup actually. Surprised that I didn't run into a Phillips, Valentin or Myrow[!] as I scanned down.

And he was so young ...

http://tinyurl.com/bwrma

Hennessey is lefthanded, right?

Brad Hennessey is lefthanded in the same sense that I'm female.

The Giants have one lefty starter: Lowry.

Two lefty relievers: Eyre and Taschner

One lefty who defies classification under any system known to man: Fassero

176 That beats us

No lefty starters
No lefty relievers
One lefty bullpen towel boy

177

Evidently,

No lefty first baseman

robles is the only one in the lineup that i dion't like, both antonio perez and choi are better.
if choi and perez were not available then tracy would have put out the best available lineup today.
tracy got very close today for an applause by me.
1 mess up is better than his usual 3 or 4 mess ups.
actually yesterday there was 2 mess ups repko and robles.
but usually its 3 or 4.

how could choi play instead of robles?

All this talk about athletes who go into politics ...now you may not consider NASCAR drivers "athletes" but Richard Petty (The KING!) was a county commissioner for a number of years (Republican, of course) and then ran for NC Secretary of State in, hmmm, I think 1994 (really not sure of the year). He got his behind handed to him by a WOMAN, Elaine Marshall, the current SOS. It would have been most embarrassing (to me, anyway..YMMV) to have both Jesse Helms and Petty in office.

Many Dukies like to think Shane Battier will be the first African-American president.

Speaking of Dukies, if Christian Laettner isn't a Republican, I would be shocked.

182 Why, Bob? I'm curious why you say that. Is it the arrogance?

182
1. Went to Duke
2. Patrician sounding name
3. Animus towards him

It's entirely a stereotype. It has no basis in reality.

But really, does anybody like Christian Laettner?

180
choi 1b, seanz 3b, aybar or perez ss
choi 1b, aybar 3b or ss, perez 3b or ss

announcement that last minute scratch of ledee out of the lineup and edwards in place of him.
which weakens the lineup, but not tracy's fault.

Edwards is in left... He's batting 7th, everyone else moves up

Well Edwards is better than Valentin. And probably about the same as Repko. But Repko had his weekly hit yesterday.

184
1. I work at Duke...but I wouldn't want my kid to go here. Fast track to corporate-ville.
2. Name...hmmm not sure how to process that. If he was named Van Lingo Mungo would that help?
3. He is pretty legendary at Duke...look, he and Hurley and Coach K were the last to win back-to-back championships. And he hit THE SHOT against Pitino and Kentucky. I could have misty thoughts about Jeff Kent if the Dodgers won even 1 world series...or even went to one. I went to a Duke-NC State game that commemorated the 10th anniversary of Duke's 1st NC. Your buddy Laettner had his kid up (way up!) on his shoulders and seemed nice enough.

Really, why do we like ANY professional athlete? A really good read is Ray Mungo's book about being a left-wing baseball sportswriter-fan. Very thought provoking.

The Giants fans hate Jeff Kent? But he's such loveable guy? How could they? :-)

Don't tell me were facing Cy Young Hennessey today. Without Ledee, I'm scared...

Laettner is originally from the OC, so I'm sure he's a republican

So will Lowe be the first Dodger pitcher to give up a homer to Bonds? If so, which inning?

192 (Yes, I'm responding to myself). On second thought, I mnay be confusing him with Cherokee Parks who definitely came from Orange County.

189

We choose pro athletes to hate for various reasons, but most importantly:
1) they are on the wrong team
2) they seem to be arrogant

Laettner always seemed to rank high in both. It was very easy to dislike a guy who seemed to always win, kick players in the chest, and just act like he was so much superior to everyone.

Whether that was reality about Laettner, it was what we bought into. And I think the image stuck.

You can put it this way: I really dislike Kentucky basketball. They're like the Giants to me. And in the famous Duke-Kentucky game, I was pulling for Kentucky at the end.

Then again, I may have had Kentucky in a pool...

I believe Christian Laettner grew up in the Buffalo area.

Hmmm...Fox does not have the stat bar across the top of the screen. I wonder what is wrong?

189- my favorite Duke player of all time is Elton Brand. Total class act.

194 You're correct that Parks is from SoCal. Laettner is from upstate NY. Poor ole Cherokee led the last really bad Duke team. But I think he spent some time in the NBA.

I have the stat bar on my screen.

200 As do I

Am I the only persone who wishes that Repko was playing instead of Edwards? I mean, they both stink at the plate, but at least Repko is fairly young and could conceivably get better. In addition to that, Repko is so much better in center field than Werth that the marginal difference in offense seems worth it to me.

202 I was thinking that as well. However, this is Tracy

I remember Parks was a HUGE recruiting story here at the time and he was built up as a franchise player wherever he went. I hope we are not doing the same with our AA stars.

No Bonds this inning

Bonds won't get to bat with a man on. That's really too bad...

I'd rather see Repko than Edwards.

189

What do you do at Duke? I live in Old West Durham.

Cherokee Parks is sort of like Hank Snow when it comes to his NBA career:

http://tinyurl.com/bb295

lowes sinker looks really heavy today. hopefully that stays true for the course of the night.

210- the Giants gun has Lowe throwing 93...if so that's not good news

210 Yes, it'll be heavy until the first little bloop single or fielding error at which point Lowe will decide he needs to challenge Barry Bonds with a fastball middle in...

211 Lowe isn't exactly a power pitcher...

Mike Edwards runs on Barry...ooh, isn't that some breach of protocol?

Running on Bonds' great arm? No!

Edwards did that just to irritate us!

I was worried that there wasn't enough time for the Kreuter Principle to fully take effect

And edwards proves me wrong once again...

213- when Lowe throws 92-93, he gets less movement on his sinker. He's better off at lower velocity with more movement.

mike edwards is thw baseball version of the little engine that could.

208 I'm at one of many varied research centers at the Medical Center part of the Duke Plantation.

Yourself?

You can talk...it's just the 2 of us. I can't believe there is another DT reader/lurker/poster here! I was picturing myself following the bums from a remote location, alone. Look what Jon has wrought! I can wear my "GHAME OVER" shirt around 9th St. here in Durham and someone might know what the heck it means!

Great eye by Lowe...great at bat

can't believe there is another DT reader/lurker/poster here!

d4p is a member of the church of lo duca. they take 10% of his yearly earnings.

I could kiss Aybar

He's going to slow down at some point, but I sure don't mind this

has depodesta been talking to our pitchers about taking walks.

Bonds just threw a rocket to the plate. Great piece of hitting by Aybar.

Dear Barry,

Sid Bream, Sid Bream, Sid Bream...

Sid Bream has to be on the all-ugly team.

has depodesta been talking to our pitchers about taking walks.

after watching him all year, he has an idea of what to do at the plate. hes one of our better hitting pitchers on the staff.

Bonds is going to have to hit a HR every night to make up for the complete lack of an arm. Not sure why Vinny saying it was a "strong" throw. Or Did I just see it wrong?

221

I'm a doctoral student at UNC. We live in Durham because it's cheaper and because my wife works here. There was a Duke student who used to post on the ESPN board who is a Dodger fan, but he disappeared over the summer and hasn't returned. So there's a few of us at least.

Bonds can barely catch anything outside a 5 foot radius of where he positions himself, yet they have hit 2 fly balls right at him.

223

Nate gives 100% of his allowance to the Jacksonville Suns.

Even Bonds can have a terrible AB

Don't you think that Lowe would be one of the least likely Dodger pitchers to be intimidated by Bonds? Mainly because I think he seems so oblivious to things.

232 I've been meaning to tell you, with your screen name you should check out a movie called "Emperor of the North"

Vinny is going to be cooing over Feliz all night.

I sure hope the homer loving Lowe isn't back

It's too bad that the Giants announcers couldn't stay home with sore throats

and with that homerun given up, lowe still has an all GB ratio.

236

Marty, he was born way after that movie came out. He was just a few years old when Lee Marvin passed away.

231 Did you say UNC? Did you hear the one about the Tar Heel fan who....no, I can't go there. Let's just say there's a little rivalry between the Dukies and Tar Heels....about like the Dodgers and Giants.

but he disappeared over the summer and hasn't returned -- yeah, there aren't many of us left. I'm always very careful around all these Braves fans.

i think thats lowes first homerun given up in 30 innings or so. can anyone validate that?

Yeah, I guessed that was probably the case Bob. But I wanted to give him a chance to check it out :)

Steve rejoices as Oakland beats Boston 6-2. Angels lead the Tigers 2-1.
Oakland is off today.
Yankees beat Tampa Bay 9-5.

242

Interestingly enough, I used to hate Duke and was indifferent toward UNC. Now that I live in this area, I kinda like them both. I'm not particularly allegiant to UNC. I just happen to go to school there.

244
It was the Feel Good Movie of 1973.

241 "He was just a few years old when Lee Marvin passed away."

Well, no...

I'm possibly the youngest person here

Lee Marvin died in 1987.

I'm possibly the youngest person here

maybe, i might have you beat... whats your age?

It's actually a favorite of mine. Both Lee Marvin and Borgnine are terrific. Also a young Keith Carradine. I saw it at the theater in Hollywood when it came out.

249 -- But he lives on in first-year property classes in Law Schools all acros America.

As Barry Bonds will be doing in a few years.

CRRRUUZZZ

it must suck to be a giant fan and watch cruz triple in kent

250 17. I was born months before the last Dodger World Series

McCovey Chronicles probably just blew a fuse.

Navarro! He hammered that one. That's a HR in Dodger Stadium.

Boy, this outfield can be frustrating for players.

Heres where you need to get lucky.

I just love "homers"

246 In truth, I am much more an NC State fan. I like Duke and UNC but really pull for State.

Yes, I know, I follow very frustrating teams. For grins, you should go to statefans.com and read their message board. You can actually picture the heads exploding. Probably it is about like reading the mets or cubs blogs.

i guess you have me beat, im 3 yrs older.

That was dumb. Swinging 2-0 at a pitch above his head.

I like to suggest that the Giants stick with this kid. They should let him work through his problems...

and I'd like to see the Dodgers jump to a big lead :)

One of my favorite lines in Reservoir Dogs: "I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan"

Nevermind, Edwards is smart. He just wanted the pitcher to make an extra pitch.

254

You had me at "fan".

Still have a soft spot for Cat Ballou. Gotta love a guy who drinks with his horse...

3-run inside the park homer by Curtis Granderson gives the Tigers a 4-2 lead over the Angels.

That was a Werthless at bat

i dont understand how werth can completely whiff on a belt high 90 mph fastball that is over the plate.

Vladimir Guerrero hit an outside-the-park home run to make it 4-3. It's his second of the game.

What's wrong with Werth? He can't even strike out like he's supposed to.

Come on Aybar!! Let's open the flood gates on these losers!!!

im going to predict aybar's first grand slam.

260. Hobo's got me by 3 years too

269

Werth has K'd 102 times in some 300 ABs this season.

Faserro coming in...this could be good for us.

254
Being somewhat self-referential, but Renee Zellweger got her marriage annulled.

Here's Bob's favorite pitcher. Can a homerun be far behind?

You know you're hot when you get hits like that.

Self-referential? Are you Kenny Chesney in another life?

how come when the angles do well, all we hear is how great small ball is, but then when they struggle to score, no one says anything. I thought that one of the advantages of "small ball" was that its more consistent than "moneyball", you know, "speed doest slump".

wow! The Giants are looking bad. No wonder they are tied in the standings with us.
vr, Xei

you know, "speed doest slump".

remember, defense doesnt slump either.

266 Cat Ballou is a classic. Nat King Cole, Stubby Kaye, (young) Jane Fonda and Marvin. Great stuff.

Marvin's movie just before that was "The Killers" with John Cassevettes, Angie Dickinson, and ....Ronald Reagan. It was Reagan's last movie before he ran for governor, and he played (badly, I think) a sort of mob boss. It is strange watching it these days with Reagan looking just as he did when he was such a political hotshot.

cruz has got to be one of the top 5 best mid season pickups this season in mlb.

I don't have anything against Jeff Fassero. I'm just wondering why he's still pitching aside from being a lefty. Last year, he got waived by Colorado in late September after getting into a disagreement with Clint Hurdle. And Arizona signed him! And pitched him in one inning.

Why did they bother?

Aybar is making a case to be part of the 2006 infield. Good to see one of the young players doing well.

Stan from Tacoma

Evening all. A 5-1 score over the Gnats sure does warm my heart. Keep it up, guys!

280 That's no smallball, all 3 runs are a result of Vladball. The media has no idea between the difference. The Angels probably owe half their victories to Vladball rather than smallball

279
Self-referential in that I was referring to my own statement. But that syntax I used was a bit confusing.

Even to me.

My favorite Marvin movie (and one of the all-time greatest movies anywhere) is "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance". John Ford.

284

Weren't there ONLY 5 mid season pickups this season in mlb?

Speed is its own reward

Christina,
In case you didn't get an answer it's [x]

And my cat stills walks among us. Although in this instance, she just sort of sits among us.

284 I agree. And just think, another one of the best midseason pickups was Beane's acquisition of Jay Payton. I wonder if DePo saw how well JayPay was doing for the A's and called old mentor Beane to get his thoughts on Cruz...

289 Except you were referring to a tracyapologist post about Cruz and Kent

288- that's BS. Ersty and Figgy are the team's MVPs. Just ask Mike Scioscia.

295
Well, that would make things even more confusing....

288. I know, imagine if the dodgers, yankees, or baltimore were somehow able to sign Guerrero back in 2003-04. The Angels would be 7-9 games worse.

Homer by Ordonez and it's 5-3 Tiggers.

Now Magglio homers, 5-3 Tigers. It was out of the park if you were curious ;)

293 Good to hear about your cat, Bob. Is her coat still bugging her or did the dermatologist fix that?

I must be even more out of it than usual tonight (another long day and night at work) because I appear to have asked a question without being aware I asked it.

Is it too early for my nightly "I'd like to see Kuo pitch tonight"?

Kuo vs Bonds. that's all I ask for a successful night. I suppose Kuo might not be on the same page as me on that one, though.

lowe threw 3 94mph fbs to winn and a 93 mph fb which winn doubled.

maybe lowe needs to stay in the low 90s and get more sink.

lowe could be one case of a pitcher being hurt by having a higher velocity.

So far I can't count, nor remember who asked questions, so I could be wrong.

The cat's coat is actually fine now. I have no idea why.

She has told me that she wants to see Hee-Seop Choi hit a home run before she dies.

302- are you sure that Kuo won't give up a HR to Bonds on purpose to get on Sportscenter, like Chan Ho used to do (especially of the historic variety)?

The Killers is a great movie. Even with Reagan. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is in my top 5 for westerns. I also love Marvin in Donevan's Reef, Dirty Dozen, and The Big Red One.

Kuo vs Bonds. that's all I ask for a successful night. I suppose Kuo might not be on the same page as me on that one, though.

im sure kuo would love to face bonds... but im sure tracy would never let it happen.

There for a moment, I thought Lowe wanted Bonds to tie it...

God Bless the Tigers

301 Don't worry Christina. Bob's answering questions tonight that are coming in on another wavelength.

Still going to the Raider game Sunday?

303

Yeah. Evidently, when Lowe gets "too much rest", he comes back too strong and loses the "sink". Maybe that's why he has been so successful in the postseason.

303- read most post from earlier in the thread. Lowe is much more effective when his velocity is in the 88-90 range because he gets more movement on his sinker. When he throws it harder, it flattens out and gets hammered.

The cat's coat is actually fine now. I have no idea why.

The magical healing powers of a Cristian Guzman home run.

304 Your cat should live forever, then. I hope you can afford the catfood in perpetuity.

I'd like to see Perez start a game again before I die. (Although I like Aybar.)

Vancce Wilson? Ouch...

If DePo were to get drunk on the job and brought up Venafro, what are the odds he'd be used daily? Too bad Kuo ended up in the same spot as Perez and Choi.

I should be appearing on 1540 tomorrow night around 10:30 I was told.

You can get an exciting recap of the game between Grace Brethren and Oaks Christian.

Dear Mike Scioscia,

Please, please, please let Colon throw 120 pitches tonight.

Your friend,

Steve

Anyone miss watching the games from Candlestick park on TV (of course not in person)? I always thought it was cool when someone hit a home run to left field and all the fans climbed over the wall into the grassy area to fight over the ball. vr, Xei

314
I keep buying relatively small bags of cat food because I don't wish to press my luck. I think I'm on my tenth one.

314 If the cat were to live forever, why would it need catfood? Or would it live forever only if properly nourished?

310 - wouldn't miss it for the world.

318

They eventually fenced off that area after the Giants fans started walking down to the fence and pelting the Dodger leftfielders with garbage.

One day the Giants went on a positive PR binge and got Dianne Feinstein to sit in that section. The kids were brought to order by being threatened to having to listen to one of her campaign speeches.

316. Oaks Christian rocks!! They are a local high school that actually recruits in the county and gives scholarships (private school). They seem a little overbaring (sp?bob). vr, Xei

MCC has given up. There wasn't even a string of X-rated mocking when Kent flew out. How boring.

320 Hee. Good point. Errr, an immortal cat still needs food if said immortal cat wants to be somewhat more active than Terri Schiavo was.

The Oaks Christian people are usually pretty nice when I've been there. They are playing way below their level of competition. They've won 19 straight games and have scored over 50 in 11 of them. I think their average margin of victory is something like 37 points.

Which county do you think Oaks Christian is recruiting in? It's pretty close to the LA/Ventura border.

I also like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, perhaps Marvin's best role as the heavy. He's kind of like the Christian Laettner of villians -- the guy you love to root against.

I went through a long time of boycotting John Wayne movies, but The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance brought me back to the fold. I can respect him as an actor at least. But what's up with naming an airport after him?

324- the fans at Phone Company Park are more of the wine and cheese crowd.

325

The cat needs cat food even if it's immortal because it would still whine that it doesn't have any food.

She is telling me now that she wants to see Kuo pitch before she dies.

Does Julio Franco have to eat?

Time for a Mike Edwards Marching and Chowder Society?

Nice piece of hitting by Edwards.

To my surprise, he's having a great game.

327 Typical Orange County insanity. I grew up there.

Actually, didn't he and his family live in the area? I remember some notorious criminal case that involved his daughter Aissa Wayne back when I was growing up. Bob?

YES!
The bottom of the order is actually having a good day (except for Werth).

Saenz is awful. How about a Korean PH?

Hitterish mood?

Hmmm, DaVanon has replaced Guerrero in Anaheim.

And it's only 8-4 Tigers. This is probably not good news for the fans of the Halo.

Werth gets in on the fun

If you throw out the middle game of the Colo series, the Dodgers have scored at least one run in something like 17 out of 29 innings.

Navarro scores on a base hit from 2nd. Thank you Bonds!

I can respect him as an actor at least. But what's up with naming an airport after him?

Hey, if they could name a freeway after Nixon...

I'm just sayin'...

When it comes to Wayne, I choose to honor the icon and ignore his politics.

Man, this is fun, watching the Giants get beat like a drum.

339
I think Phillips could have scored from second on that play too. Bonds seemed in no hurry to get to the ball.

Go Jeff Faserro! I hope you are available to pitch in each game of the series.

326. I know for a fact that they recruit heavily throughout Ventura Co., the football coach there is a friend of my neighbor who has a young teenage son who is very atheleticly gifted and they've already hinted to him that they'd love to have him go to school there. I'm not sure how much they recruit in LA Co. The Westlake area is hardcore into it's youth sports, to the point where they take it WAY too serious. My friend who lives in Westlake village has a son the same age as Wayne Gretzky's and has seen him at many little league games. Just thought it would be cool to see Wayne at a little league game. vr, Xei

339

Phillips couldn't score from 3rd on a balk.

Let's cross our fingers that Lowe can hold this lead. He's only thrown 48 pitches.

318 I was at the last game in Candlestick where they let people do that. It was a twi-night doubleheader with LA in 1988, which the Dodgers swept. During the second game, which went extra innings, fans were climbing the chain link fence in left and throwing beer bottles at Kirk Gibson.

The next day they had put up a retainer about 10-15 feet in front of the fence, which stayed until a few years later, when they ditched the chain link for padded walls.

Will Alou still use 3-4 pitchers an inning in the later innings? He hs something like 10 more pitchers that he can use

Wayne made a few good/great movies. Liberty Valance, Red River, The Searchers, Stagecoach.

He got the airport named after him because he was 1) a big star, and 2) lived on Balboa Island for years.

Are the Dodgers setting themselves up for another 8-7 loss? vr, Xei

Gabe Kapler couldn't score on a ball hit over the fence.

wow! Amazing range factor by Kent there. I'm sure Cora would've had it. vr, Xei

The Giants may need to consider trading Bonds to the American League in the offseason. He covers about 5 sq ft out there and has no arm.

Either that or consider petitioning mlb to play a rover in left center.

348
Didn't the Dodgers sweep that doubleheader and win the nightcap on a balk by Scott Garrelts. I remember listening to that game on the radio. I was in grad school in Berkeley at the time.

hee hee

haha! Foul ball, dude got wet for nada.
vr, Xei

That was close, good thing we have a nice lead

hes going to hit one this ab anyway

FOULLL BALLL!

350 - Wasn't his boat named the Wild Goose?

Shoulder injury of some sort for Guerrero.

Bonds is hitting .222, what a bust. :)
vr, Xei

The Searchers. Another all-time great Western. Young Natalie Wood ;-)

Lowe's GB/FB ratio that inning 2:1
More meaningless info on the way...
vr, Xei

354 I have a theory that Bonds is playing LF even worse than usual to force the Giants to trade him to an AL team in the offseason "against his wishes". Then he can whine about how he could have played LF just fine once he was fully recovered, he's an OFer and not just a DH, he didn't want to leave SF when he had always planned to retire as a Giant, etc.

I'd love it if the Giants stuck him at first base for one game, just to see his face.

8-5 Tigers.

And Bengie Molina went from 1st to 3rd on a single!

365 Out of the division? Sounds good to me.

I share Wayne's birthday and taste for tequila (though not in the same quantities!), but I've never got the swagger quite down.

Bonds probably shouldn't play first. He refuses to wear a cup. I would not play the infield without one although I hear that pro athletes don't like to wear them. Especially football players.

367 - so long as he doesn't go to the Angels, fine by me too.

LA now only trails 8-6

When I was researching an RDGC, I saw a picture of a game when Herman Franks moved Willie Mays to first base to rest a sore hamstring. He put McCovey and Cepeda in the outfield (with Duke Snider).

Mays wore his regular fielder's glove at first.

Kent had some nice contact, just hit it at the wrong spot. Yay, Phillips up for Saenz (lefty pitching and 6 run lead aside)

369 All the more reason for the Giants to stick him at first for a game. Or even one inning. Please?

I'll always hate that team, but I'd have an iota more respect for them if they would stand up to Bonds just once.

371
Bengie's speed pays off!

TV viewers: How close was Kent's fly to the left field wall?

366, Bob, The Tiger outfielders must have weaker arms than Bonds and Winn.

Stan from Tacoma

355 Yeah, I think so. My parents wouldn't stay for the extra innings in game two. I guess we were true LA fans.

It didn't really matter because the fog that had rolled in made it nearly impossible to see the field, and we had field-level seats. Man, that was a miserable place to see a game.

I'm going to my first game at SBC on Saturday. A friend gave me two bleacher tickets.

I missed it I was watching the other LA game... Tracy pinch hit Phillips for Saenz?
vr, Xei

371 No, they lead 7-1. I believe you wanted Ana, or LAAoA

Why is Mike Maroth still pitching for Detroit? They can't have relievers who are that much worse.

327 - If I boycotted movies based on the politics of the actors I wouldn't be able to see very many movies.

367 - if he keeps playing "old" they can keep him in the division. He might be the worst defensive outfielder (range/arm combination) and it's possible, although unlikely, that age has caught up with him and without the juice he can't maintain the strength and bat speed or bounce back from the daily grind.

381 I was just wondering the same thing. GET MAROTH OUTTA THERE!

See, JT's going to get me started agin. Does he actually believe his towel boy Phillips had a better chance of getting a hit off of Faserro over Choi???

Hate is strong word, but I HATE Jim Tracy.

376 Nice line drive that couldn't make it over Winn. It went to center, not left, and several feet from the wall. It was not a lazy fly ball though

382. Or listen to much music. It's a pet peeve of mine when entertainers use their status to preach politics. If they actually run for an office, then I can live with that. vr, Xei

385
I think it was just a lefty/righty thing. If the Giants had Brian Cooper out there, then Choi would have batted.

386 Thanks.

Maroth lucks out. But if the Tigers run him out there for another inning, they deserve to lose that game.

Was George Will forced to wear some sort of idenetifying mark so people in San Francisco could easily pick him out as a Republican?

I only like westerns made by Italians with Ennio Morricone scores.

Best villians:

Klaus Kinski - The Great Silence
Henry Fonda - Once Upon a Time in the West

Will Lowe get through 5 inn. w/ less than 75 pitches?

391 - I was thinking he would have been wise to go in undercover.

And Lee Van Cleef in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.

Pitch 2 - In play, out(s) recorded
Jason Phillips? Hard to believe.

DePo was smart to get as much as he did for Ishii, but in what chapter in the Managers' Guide did Tracy read that you were to give 400 plate appearances to an out machine?

Rick Monday on Manager of the Year Award: "Frank Robinson should get a lot of consideration."

The Cardinals magic number is 1. The umpires finally called the game after a lengthy delay in Chicago. The Cardinals were up 6-1, but the Cubs had the bases loaded with 2 outs.

But the 27th out never came.

Jose Macias was due to bat.

393 Self referentially: Yes. (Thanks Fassero).

397
There are actually a lot of writers who like Frank Robinson. They may not be ones with ballots for Manager of the Year however. I think Robinson annoys beat writers. It's the national columnists who idolize him, like Boswell and Gammons.

But I doubt that Tony Jackson or Steve Henson has fond memories of him.

395 Van Cleef was very good, but Eli Wallach was the best!

391- He's left off wearing the bow tie, these days, it seems. Maybe his naturally fussy expression was enough.

397 Considering the difference in wins between last year and this year, he does earn some consideration. If actual managing comes into the question, he should be around 30th (or 16th in the NL)

Why are the Giants worried about using up the bullpen? They have 16 pitchers on the roster now.

401 I didn't consider Eli Wallach the villian in that one, but he was certainly the best character.

Icaros, I'm going to a free screening of "Once Upon A Time in The West" Saturday at the Autrey museum this Saturday. They have been screening Leone movies on their lawn for the last few weeks. I saw "A Fistfull of Dollars a few weeks ago.

Personally, my favorite John Wayne films have to be, in order,

"The Conqueror"
"Big Jim McClain"
"The Green Berets"

405 "Hey, Blondie!"

Is Boswell syndicated, or does he just have a national following? Heart of the Order was the first legitimate non-fiction book I ever read. I copied (by hand) his list of the 99 reasons baseball is better than football, and kept it in my school binder for months after reading it. But I haven't paid attention to him in the last ten years.

407 LOL

It's a pet peeve of mine when entertainers use their status to preach politics.

I actually could care less, and wouldn't want to step on their right to free speech. It's all part of the process. In general, I pay little attention to them, though I recognize that they are often used to sway the opinions of the less well informed.

But, hey, I have no problem with Britney Spears speaking her mind, even though she's a total twit :)

406 I know about that and would definitely be there if I hadn't moved. I went to the Leone exhibit up there the week before I left. Pretty cool.

Edwards is having a heck of a game. Tracy is looking like a genius in this game (the Phillips PH notwithstanding)

409
Washington Post writers show up all over the place, although I don't think Boswell has a regular syndication gig.

I think Boswell has shown up more now because of the Nationals.

348 - I was at that doubleheader behind the outfield. Both games went extras. Ended around 1 a.m. Craziest night of baseball in my life.

407 - Mine would be:
"Somewhere in Sonora"
"Haunted Gold"
"McQ"

407 Green Berets. Blech. That does go over the top, way too right-wingish.

I wonder who would make that movie today about the Iraq war?

My favorite line in Once Upon a Time in the West is when Bronson says to Robards:

"I saw three of these dusters a short time ago, they were waiting for a train. Inside the dusters, there were three men. Inside the men, there were three bullets."

Yeah, it's a nice set up. I'm going to make Steak sandwiches and a friend is going to make a pitcher of cocktails. Should be a blast.

418 - "People scare better when they're dying."

What's the deal with people bringing newborns to a baseball game?? vr, Xei

415 I didn't remember that the first one went extras as well, but that was a marathon of freezing cold, angry baseball.

407 - Realism aside,I always loved The Green Berets. My main problem was that Jack Soo, George Takei, and the kid who played Hamchuck weren't very convincing as Vietnamese.

If I recall correctly from the other night, the Dodgers only need to score 48 more unanswered runs to get Kuo in the game. Assuming his ERA is 54 and the lead has to be equal to or greater than said pitcher's ERA.

Oh man, another movie thread in the middle of a Dodger victory. Ughhh! :)
vr, Xei

419 Now I think I'm going to cry about not being there.

Wow, that looked like great pitching to Vizquel on Gameday.

Why all the consternation about inserting Phillips? It's 7-1, folks, and Olmedo ain't no spring chicken.

424 Personally, I'd factor in the number of remaining innings, so if we had an 18 run lead, I'd be fine with it.

425 - I guess XF doesn't realize we wait till he shows up...

425 Deal with it :)

Giants have the knuckleballer Niekro in the game now. :) vr, Xei

428 Using your logic, Jim, Why doesn't JT just put Choi in to try to bat aginst LHP? We've got a six-run lead. How's he supposed to improve if he doesn't get the chance?

425. haha! I thought that might be the case. One of my least favorite places is Blockbuster. I can walk through the whole store and not find a single movie I'd be interested in watching. A good movie is like a good woman, hard to find and way too many commercials to go through to get to the good stuff. vr, Xei

No argument there, Midwest.

Speaking of Westerns and Lee Marvin, Has anybody ever seen "Paint Your Wagon"? I was on a kick when I was younger to see every Eastwood film and I paid good money to go to an arthouse in LA to see that. It was worse than I could have imagined.

434- What kind of dates have you been going on, man?

437 Heh, I was just wondering the same.

I'm happy that Derek Lowe is having a good game. That gives some validation to his contract.

434 - That's been my experience in my two trips to Blockbuster also. Blockbuster online, OTOH, has been terrific. In the few months that I've had it, I've come up with the kind of obscure gems I'd never have seen otherwise.

And he's been pitching better altogether since the big adjustment to the first base side.

I hope JT leaves DLowe in for the 8th (but have someone warmed up just in case).

Lowe has been phenomenal since the all-star break - 3.19 ERA NOT counting tonight's gem.

I bet Boston is wishing they had him back in the rotation right about now.

439. I hope Lowe pitches well enough that some team looking for a veteran who "knows how to win" will trade a Brandon McCarthy-type pitcher for him. Of course, Carolyn Hughes will have to find a new boyfriend.

It must be great to be Bonds. If you're teams not winning you just quit in the middle of the game and hit the showers.

442. ditto.

Best thing the D's can do for Lowe is get more runs or get out quick.

Guess they solved that.

6 pitch inning.
kent 1 pitch gone
phillips 1 pitch gone
cruz 4 pitches gone

with our rotation looking bleak next year, i dont think i would trade lowe this winter.

we have too much inexperience and too many injury concerns to trade lowe away.

lowe has a rubber arm, hes good for 210+ innings every year.

Anything new on the Carolyn Hughes front? Is she back on the air?

448 Lowe's averaged 10 pitches in the 6th and 7th innings.

445- he's going home to LA in his private jet

449
exactly
penny good
lowe good
perez average
houlton ?
?

I know she got banned from the Dodger clubhouse. I think shes coming back, but wont be covering the dodgers.

How did Lowe get his groove back? Before the season I was really happy DePo worked the Sean Green deal to free up the $$ to get Lowe -- and I'm a pretty big fan of Green. At least 1 SABR dude thought Lowe might win 20 games and win the Cy Young award.

Amid flashes of brilliance he was pretty uneven, and on the bad side, until August, and now he looks great. Has he shaken off then tawdry effects of the romantic affairs? Could it really be just putting his foot on the correct side of the rubber? Hard to believe.

450- I sent her an email, but she never replied. I'm not willing to watch FSN unless the Dodgers or Bruins are playing, so even if she does come back, if she doesn't email me, I'll never know.

Lowe used to be nate's most desired trade target.

449. Will you feel that way if he falls on his face like he did in 2004? I say sell high, either this offseason or next, IFF you can fill his spot with someone that could give you a league average ERA over 200 IP.

"with our rotation looking bleak next year, i dont think i would trade lowe this winter."

If they're able to sign a good starter it won't be that bleak. I don't who's going to be available, though.

456 Taking dating tips from Xei?

455. Perhaps some of Lowe's success can be attributed to Hughes, its not like shes busy with work. :)

"I was really happy DePo worked the Sean Green deal to free up the $$ to get Lowe -- and I'm a pretty big fan of Green."

That's why you spelled his name correctly. :)

Does anyone play MLB 2006 on PS2?

Lowe used to be nate's most desired trade target.

indeed. i am willing to admit that. i am eating tons of lowe crow lately. It was just so frustrating watching him pitch because he has it in him to be very good but he was inconsistent as hell. now, i am willing to take inconsistency from young high cieling pitchers like jackson and etc, but with a vet like lowe, it was driving me crazy.

it seems though, the move to the left side of the rubber has put a placebo effect on lowe, because i honestly cannot believe it actually helps that much.

460- 8^)

I try to live my life the way Moses Herzog would have, if he'd had email. And didn't have women lining up to put up with him. Or a real job.

If they're able to sign a good starter it won't be that bleak. I don't who's going to be available, though.

well thats the thing, there are not that many decent pitchers available.

465 - LOL

that's a double if Bonds is still out there. too bad for Edwards.

464 Wasn't trying to show you up, nate. It's just funny how our opinions can change.

When Cruz was acquired, none of us were too impressed. Now some posters want to start him in right next season.

466
do you think billingsley could make it in our rotation to start the season?
or does he need 1 more year in the minors?

Yeah, I don't really understand how a move to the other side of the rubber would have such a dynamic effect.

462 -- OK, I can't spell but I can still be a fan, right? At least I didn't spell his last name "Greene". Then what would happen?

It's late here on the east coast. After midnight I'm not responsible for my spelling. So I say.

465 Okay, I'm going to pretend like I know what you mean and leave it at that 8-0

At least the fans have something to enjoy-they've shown that Bond foul ball a dozen times.

And at the risk of jinxing the game--never mind.

Celery stalks at midnight,
Lurking in the moonlight,
What's this funny nightmare all about?

Celery stalks at midnight,
I'm glad I've got my flashlight,
I can see the broccoli juggling brussel sprouts.

It's like a bad dream,
A crazy sort of bad dream.
Must have been something
That I ate no doubt.

Look at that potato putting on his shades,
Claims he won them in a raffle,
Now he's climbing a tree,
Flirtin' with an apple.

What's causing this vegetation migration?

The tomato is far ahead of the others calling,
"Ketchup, ketchup, where have you bean?
Let's get to the root of this problem.
Tell the flowers to get out of their beds."

But the romaine held her ground crying,
"Leaf me alone, lettuce wait,
I don't carrot what you say,
Something might turnip,
You and the cabbage go on a-head."

All eyes are on the potato, and the beat...goes on

It's like a bad dream
A crazy sort of mad dream
Must have been something that I ate
No doubt.

Celery stalks at midnight
Lurking in the moonlight
What's this funny nightmare all about?
"Its some sort of evil garden plot"!

Celery Stalks
Sigman/Harris/Bradley
(Additional lyrics by Al Simmons)

466 Exactly. I think we'll lose out on the bidding for the few good pitchers that'll be on the market. I think DePo's likelier to use his money to get a big bat.

Part of me still holds out hope for Zito via a trade, but the A's need power more than anything else. I can't really see what they could work out with the Dodgers, though I suppose they could get a third team involved.

ideally, you would want to give billingsley one more year in the minors.

but if push comes to shove, he could start in the rotation.

but depo will be blasted if he does have billz start the yr on the dodgers and he gets shelled.

464 - I think you're right to a degree about the placebo effect, in that it seems to inspire more confidence in him.

I think, also, that it slightly alters the delivery of the ball to the plate, maybe giving him a sense of more to work with.

477 - I predict he is in the rotation to start the season next year. He doesn't have much left to prove in AA and a AAA stop at Vegas is asking for problems.

if depo trades for zito, there definately has to be a 3rd team involved because the dodgers and A's do not match up well at all.

the A's need OF corner big boppers, dodgers system currently do not have any big time corner OF prospects or mlb players.

477
so what do we do with the rotation next year?
we have under contract
penny good
lowe good
perez average
houlton ? haven't seen enough
?

473- Herzog was the title character in my favorite Saul Bellow book. He was constantly composing notes and letters, especially to politicians, in his mind.

Whats this-Scmoll againsttwo lefties.

I'm stunned.

I think the Dodgers won't have postseason success until they have a true ace, but they're so hard to come by. Is Jason Schmidt signed thru 2006? I know he's been iconsistant, too though

Schmoll gets out 3 lefties. Nice. Great game by Lowe

But Mr. Clark, we weren't going to actually play the game tonight, we were just going to talk about it!

Whats this-Scmoll againsttwo lefties.

I'm stunned.

482. What type of Author is Saul Bellow? is bokonon42 a reference to cat's craddle by vonnegut?

Booyah!!! 7-1. Im flabbergasted.

480 - yeah, the only player I can see the A's being interested in from the Dodgers is Kent, who would be a definite power upgrade over Mark Ellis and Marco Scutaro at second and would set up the A's well for a playoff run next year, assuming he doesn't take forever to adjust to switching leagues.

I wouldn't be in favor of a Zito-Kent trade, though.

And the Angels lose. I can't remember the last night of baseball that went this well across the board for me.

Do you guys want Weaver back assuming they could give him a contract like Odalis'.

492 It won't happen.

493. What do you think he'll ask for??

492 - If we can get the good Weaver back at, say, $5,050,000, and let the bad Weaver walk at $3,000,000... :)

off the top of my head:
4 team trade involving dodgers, A's and drays.

players traded:
A's: Barry zito
Dodgers: chuck tiffany, milton bradley, odalis perez, justin orenduff
Drays: joey gathright, aubrey huff
nationals: brad wilkerson, rhp clint everts, lhp mike hinckley.

players recieved:
A's: chuck tiffany, aubrey huff, delwyn young
dodgers: barry zito, brad wilkerson, joey gathright

drays: justin orenduff, mike hinckley, clint everts,

nationals: milton bradley and odalis perez

thoughts? I think the drays might need a little bit more coming to them, but i dunno if they can expect more with huff looming for FA.

494 - He's at $8 mil now. He'll be going for over $10 mill by being able to say he'a a 15 game a year winner. But there;s no way we can tie up three pitchers long term for that type of money. Maybe one year at that money, but not four or five.

Upon further review, the Cardinals are in the playoffs. They won't celebrate though.

They have 94 wins and the most Houston can get to is 94 and if they tied, they would both go to the playoffs with the Cardinals as the NL Central champs.

The Cardinals have games left with Houston, but have already beaten them 11 of 14 times.

495. I know what you mean, but he has a winning record on a losing team. That's something. Don't you think?? If you win ERA Doesn't mean a thing(sort of). Of course you can't count on him getting great run support every year.

496 - That's a big price to pay. I don't like Tiffany in the deal. Are you assuming we resign Weaver? You also thow Young in there. I don't know...

The Drays don't really get that much outside of getting rid of huff's salary. Do you think the Nats want Perez' contract??

In Sept:

Olmedo Saenz 33AB's- .592 OPS
Jason Phillips 23 AB's- .217 OPS

Choi... No where to be found.

I'm shocked Phillips came in for Choi tonite. Just unbelievable.

496. I like that trade, is there some way Werth could be sent to Oakland? Seems like he would be a good fit there. Is there some way we could give Gathright back and keep Orenduff.

That's a big price to pay. I don't like Tiffany in the deal. Are you assuming we resign Weaver? You also thow Young in there. I don't know...

i dont mind throwing tiffany, because his stuff is comparable to zito and being zito is tiffanys cieling. we need to give up something good and young is a good prospect, but he is redudant with our middle infield depth.

i think that 4 team trade is actually pretty solid for all 4 parties.

488- He's not quite an "American, Chicago born," but close. I guess I don't really know how to answer that question. He was born in Canada, but is widely considered one of America's greatest writers. You'll probably be bullied in to reading The Adventures of Augie March if you stay in school long enough. His books are mostly about womanizing (or, in the case of Ravelstein, otherwise promiscuous) professors, ridden with angst and neuroses. He's very funny.

And yes, my screen name is stolen from Cat's Cradle. I've been thinking of changing to "pablum puker", though, of late.

502. Come on, you cant tell me you're "shocked".

Awesome that the A's are in 1st place once again.

I'd love to see the Indians catch the White Sox. The A's win the AL West. And WC/AL East champs be the Red Sox/Yankees.

How sweet would it be to see both the Angels and White Sox choke it away?

504. I agree with the assesment of Tiffany, as much as id like to see a dodger fan pitch for the team, i doubt tiffany and his flyball tendencies would survive Cashman Field.

Billingsley is kinda young. If you go by recent indicators we have
Lowe- good
Weaver good
Penny average
Perez a health ?
I'm hoping Penny will get back-that was a devastating injury mentally.
We have a few good arms who might develop like Houlton and Dessens, a group of prospects who need more time, and 6 mo. to figure it out. We may have to trade for a starter. Pitching is so much a brain/mindset
game. Imagine if you could take a good athlete and graft on Jacksons arm and Fernandos head.
Sorry- remember its after 1:00am back here.

Billingsley is kinda young. If you go by recent indicators we have
Lowe- good
Weaver good
Penny average
Perez a health ?
I'm hoping Penny will get back-that was a devastating injury mentally.
We have a few good arms who might develop like Houlton and Dessens, a group of prospects who need more time, and 6 mo. to figure it out. We may have to trade for a starter. Pitching is so much a brain/mindset
game. Imagine if you could take a good athlete and graft on Jacksons arm and Fernandos head.
Sorry- remember its after 1:00am back here.

The Drays don't really get that much outside of getting rid of huff's salary. Do you think the Nats want Perez' contract??

well, what the drays need is basically pitching pitching pitching and a catching prospect. now, i dont think depo wants to give up a C prospect yet until he is sure which one he wants to keep. Drays get 2 of the nationals best pitching prospects and a solid #3 cieling pitcher in orenduff for huff and gathright.

they have an excess of OFers including delmon young, the eventual upton move to CF and dukes. they trade from strength to shore up a weakness.

we have an excess of pitching prospects, so we need them out, trading from strength to shore up a weakness (mlb SP and OF)

but, the trade is all lying on the assumption that beane will trade zito this offseason because he doesnt have the cash to resign him to a long term deal. all the other players involved are moveable and will probably be moved sooner or later.

496 - Why on earth would Washington want Perez, Bradley, and their contracts?

511 - I think the A's could throw in another player/prospect to make the deal better for the Drays, as I agree they need to see more than you have outlined.

And I have no problem giving up Tiffany for Zito. Zito's still young and has never missed a start, which really increases his value in my mind.

Hey, i wish there was someway we could take advantage of all the turmoil in Tampa and steal young or upton. Thats a pipe dream though.

I think we need some perspective on Lowe, i wouldnt call him "good". Hes durable, but inconsistent and its perfectly possible that he tanks like he did last year, or like he did at times this year.

Bradley doesn't have a contract.

'Off the top of you're head' it's a pretty good trade though.

Two problems.

Would the nats or any team take MB or Perez.
Where did Delwyn Young come from.

Why on earth would Washington want Perez, Bradley, and their contracts?

bradley doesnt have a logn term deal. perez' deal is a bit of a problem, i think we can throw cash thier way anyways. for example, perez has a 4.5M signing bonus that has to bepaid between 11/06 & 11/07. so i think we can throw in 4.5 to cover that and it wouldbe good to go.

516 - He won't be playing in 2006 without one.

I wish Bradley wasn't so crazy. He has so much potential and he's so cheap for what he brings. There aren't that many center fielders with his ability.

*Would the nats or any team take MB or Perez.
Where did Delwyn Young come from.*

well, i am thinking along the lines of last yr when bowden traded for hothead gullien, thinking he would do the same for bradley. also last offseason, nationals were the other big player for odalis so they still might want him.

delwyn young came from our system, he is the deal cincher for oakland. he becomes their 2b. its okay for us because we have aybar and perez. or if you want, insert aybar or perez instead of young. Personally, i rate all 3 almost the same.

518. Two words: Jim Bowden

512 - I don't think Beane trading Zito would have so much to do with not having the cash for a long-term contract as it is about wanting a power bat more. If Harden can stay healthy next season, and if Blanton and Haren continue the way they are, Oakland has a Big Three again (plus potentially Cruz and Meyer, if things work out with them, for a really scary rotation) and there's really not the need for Zito - and thus better to trade him when he's got a year left on his contract, because that way Beane can get the power bat.

I think trading Zito will be very attractive to Beane this off-season.

hey christina, what are some A's catching prospects besides suzuki that they can throw the drays way to even it out a bit?

I hope Guzman/Laroche will be ready to play soon. We really need that bat at 3b or LF. It would be such a bummer to have to sign a free agent at those places.

Utah's winning streak ended tonight 23-20 in OT at TCU.

I don't know how this makes Steve feel.

>>>nationals were the other big player for odalis so they still might want him.

After to trips to the DL and his mediocre season I wouldn't count on it especially with two years left on his deal.

521 Bradley needs to find the Lord. Or Xanax.

After to trips to the DL and his mediocre season I wouldn't count on it especially with two years left on his deal.

still though, we are talking about bowden. anyways, i still think its a good deal for the nats.

There's Alberto Castillo, whom the A's just called up from the minors, I think in an attempt to get Macha to DH Melhuse instead of Hatteberg. Only it hasn't been working because Macha is so stubborn.

Come to think of it, they could always trade Melhuse, too. I'm sure he'd like to play in more games than he has, and Kendall will be around next season, so Melhuse can be counting on lots of bench time again.

(The catch is, Castillo is 35 years old. Heh.)

527 - as a BYU grad, it makes me happy.

Can we get Gomes instead of Gathright? A player who relies purely on speed doesn't have much value with the Dodgers, especially because Drew will be in CF. Gathright is useless in a corner OF spot. I'd rather Aybar or Perez leading off, they have some speed, plus gap power and patience that Gathright doesn't. Gomes brings a lot of power, and is probably as expednable as Gathright with Young, Upton, and Crawford (Dukes is probably going to be traded, but not to the Dodgers, as his character makes Bradley's character look like Mother Theresa; Baldelli will also be available, but I have no interest in him)

There's still two spots in the rotation if Perez isn't traded, thus room for Zito. I don't think it would be too terrible to have to put up with him for one more year, ssuming the payroll is increased this offseason. Which I predict will happen.

>>>>anyways, i still think its a good deal for the nats.

To trade prospects and a decent bat to pick up two players that the Dodgers would probably give them for nothing?

when was the last time a guy threw 200 innings of 1.75era ball in a single season?

The man is 43 for pete's sake and may not even when they Cy young award, although I think he should.

anyone know Patterson's contract staus from Washington? How about Cliff Lee or Millwood?

so the overall thought process of the trade is okay? just some kinks/secondary players that need to be ironed out?

okay, who has the quickest line of communication to depo? he needs to see this right away.

after it becomes official, i would like to be at the press conference at the annoucement of the trade so i can be recognized as the mastermind behind the whole thing. you know how logan white is "amatuer" scouting director? well, after this press conference, nate purcell will the the "amatuer" trade advisor.

PS: this is part B of the purcell prophecy.

win vs when (looser)

536. The dodgers wouldnt give them Perez and Bradley for "next to nothing". He likes toolsy outfielders, doesnt care about much about personality, and they really need a centerfielder. Bowden was looking for Perez at the trading deadline also, but Depo didnt trade him because he couldnt replace Perez's spot in the rotation.

I wouldn't give Bradley up for nothing. Kent will be gone after next year. So the feud won't last much longer. Or they could trade kent for a LF or 3B which would free up a spot in the lineup Antonio Perez.

Our system is deep.
Saying we have three who can step in as ML second basemen is going some-but I'm willing to consider it. It may mean we should have made some trades already, though I love to develop prospects.

I think you guys are engaged in some deep wishful thinking if you believe that someone will give up value for Perez and Bradley

If we are going to explore a trade with Oakland, we might instead consider making Russell Martin the centerpiece of our end of the deal.

Kendall has been a huge (and expensive) bust, Moneyball icon Jeremy Brown is finally hitting again but he is now in his third year of AA, and Daric Barton has already been moved from catcher to first (and could provide the power that they're looking for, and soon too...there were many rumors of a callup this september and he should make the team this year).

If Beane can find a GM who believes Kendall 2005 is an aberration and would be willing to take at least half of his contract off of the A's hands, I can see Beane really liking Martin. He doesn't provide the power the A's are looking for, but there are other ways to patch that and hey, obp is three times more important than slg.

I'd be willing to go forward with Dioner and another scrap heap backup catcher if it would help to patch up the rotation, and I'd rather do that then giving up any of our top pitching prospects considering just how ludicrous the market for acquiring pitching can be.

the As have kurt suzuki as their catcher of the future.

537 Lee and Patterson both have 4 more seasons under the control of their current team. they don't even qualify for arbitration until after next season. Millwood is a FA after the season. He signed a crazy incentive filled contract. My favorite clause is an extra 50K for a Silver Slugger, which he has no way of obtaining in the AL (it goes to the DH)

540 - When you use quotes you are supposed to be quoting someone exactly. I didn't say that Bradley and Perez would be given away for "next to nothing" I said they would be given away for nothing.

I think the Dodgers would love be able to walk away from Bradley, his baggage and his injuries and the approx. $16 million owed to Perez.

The A's also have Landon Powell, who missed year with an injury, but he can hit.

544. Ditto. As cool as it would be to have Navarro (the new dad that vin won't let us forget about) and Martin, pitchers are way more important than catchers.

The A's also have Landon Powell, who missed year with an injury, but he can hit.

maybe oakland can send powell to the drays to even it out for them. they desperately need a catcher.

Make that, Barton should make the team next year. There were other silly typos but I think that's the only one that affects the meaning of the post.

Anyway, I think the scenario of being outbidded by another GM who way overpays for Zito is a more likely scenario than either us getting him or Beane being unwilling to trade him before his walk year. Doesn't mean that as sthe front office you shouldn't try all these ideas, but it means as fans I wouldn't get your hopes up.

547. Im sorry, i couldnt believe someone would actually say "nothing". Just because you might be willing to loose Bradley for nothing doesnt mean that no one wants him. Bradley was a head-case, and we traded a top outfield prospect for him. Guillen was traded for a solid outfielder and SS. Who ever looses the Johnny Damon sweepstakes will be looking long and hard at bradley.

547

The Dodgers may want to get away from Bradley's baggage, but he is going to have value from some team. CFs with decent defense and a bit of pop in their bat don't come around too often. More than a few teams need good CFs.

551. Thats a good point in regards to beane and zito. I think thats why we didnt get hudson last winter.

I'd also like to point out that while it's easier for us to come up with possible trades with Oakland becase many of us are following Oakland, it might be a more fruitful idea to try to sucker someone like Milwaukee or Tampa Bay into doing a one-sided trade with us than for DePo to try to outwit Beane.

Although that would be cool.
Now the student is the master.

545 Yup. I don't think the A's are going to be in any hurry to get rid of Kendall. Suzuki's on the way and Pittsburgh is picking up the tab for a lot of Kendall's last year on contract. I don't think they're disappointed with his performance for the most part. He's been huge with the young pitching staff. And after the poor start, he was hitting above .300 for something like 65 games before his current slump, which he seems to be coming out of. A lot of that slump would probably have been avoided if the A's would call the hit and run play more often when he's up with a runner on base. The A's knew what they were getting with him, an experienced and gritty .300 career vet with no power, and the pitchers love him. So I doubt Beane is disappointed. I think next year under a new manager they'll just rest him a bit more often, along with the other vets who are showing the wear and tear of Macha's set lineup.

Alvarez will be activated by Tuesday supposedly

This quote from DePodesta (or Podesta as Gurnick calls him) makes me wonder what will happen after Sunday (last possible Suns game):

"This year, we also have more internal options than a year ago. As we will see over the next three weeks, we have people who will compete for roles for next year and the next couple of years. Competition is a good thing."

Bradley will have some value to other teams but they know that the Dodgers want to unload him.

549

Finding a catcher with Martin's apparent skill set doesn't come around everyday either. I would say finding a catcher that controls the strike zone (offensively) the way Martin does even more rare than good pitching.

well my trade scenario involved the dodgers and A's teaming together and suckering the Drays and nationals.

although personally, i dont think any team would be the clear cut winner.

555. I like to think that, but Depo doesnt seem to be as much of a swindler as Beane, he doesnt seem to have that used carsalesman mentality. I could be wrong, but i hope that Depodesta is really aggressive this offseason.

555

Unless Chuck LaMar is canned after this season (and it may happen), I don't see him getting suckered in a trade.

He's not a super great GM, but he was supposedly asking for the world at the trade deadline this year. He got a taste of getting the better end of trades when he picked up Kazmir for Zambrano (or so the story goes).

Just going back a few so that I can get up to speed.

Why would we want Joey Gathright?

562 We're talking about the guy who traded Bobby Breu for Kevin Stocker (correct?). That was a long time ago admittedly. I'd agree though that he's way too hard to deal with though

we dont

562. Our only hope would be that he feels he needs to make some moves to not get fired.

gathright would just be a throw in to even it out a little and maybe trade him later.

if we de decide to keep him, gathright is a true lead off hitter. his average OBP in the minors is right around 400 and his SB rate is above 75% and he is solid defensively in cf.

lamar cant be that hard to trade with. i mean, we did trade jason romano for antonio perez with him. :)

nate, if that's the top-secret plan, you better re-tool it. :)

nah, it was just something i thought of off the top of my head about an hour ago.

the top secret plan is well... still top secret.

Utah's winning streak ended tonight 23-20 in OT at TCU.

I don't know how this makes Steve feel.

That would be "ennui," Bob. Never really could pretend to care about that particular rivalry.

More than a few teams need good CFs.

Like the Mets and Angels.

OK, I think I'm caught up.

Olmedo Saenz left with a strained left oblique.

His status is Phillips to Phillips.

573 -- And me with tickets for next Saturday. Myrow, perhaps?

567 - Nate, why not a deal a minor league for one of the Tampa OFers straight up? They match up fairly well; Gathright would likely cost a second-tier prospect or Edwin Jackson-type, while someone like Gomes most likely would cost a Tiffany or Billingsley.

I don't think it will be Gomes though, having been to 3 Tampa games this year they are a totally different team with him in the lineup. And I believe he's from the area, there were articles in the local paper about his mother attending a couple of games now that he starts semi-everyday.

By opening day 2006 the Rays can stack Crawford, Young, Gomes, and the Kent-ian Cantu as a cheap, young, and talented 3-4-5-6. Of course, that's if LaMar ever starts Delmon's service clock...

www.draysbay.com for more info

Maybe Navarro's wife will go into labor and Phillips will have to catch.

572 - The Mets have a good CF. The problem is he broke his face running into the massively overrated Carlos Beltran. And it would make sense to them to shop him for some offense from 1B-2B.

Don't the Dodgers have an ex-Met who plays those two positions? :-D

Tracy hinting at a four-man rotation for the "stretch run."

Oh boy....

577 -- True. Having to move Miguel Cairo to the outfield has left them short in the infield.

578. Its possible if we have off days. Havent looked at the schedule, is that possible?

I'd love to activate Odalis Perez, and go with a 4 man rotation with Lowe, Penny, OP, Weaver. Dessens has a lot of value in the bullpen.

All this depends on taking 3 of 4 from the Giants, and being 5 games out starting next week.

If were only 5 out beginnig next monday, I like our chances to get the lead to 3 before the SD series to end the year. The Dbax we SHOULD handle, and the pirates arent every good either.

We need 2 of 3 against the Giants to keep hope alive.

579 Heh. Actually as a disgruntled Phillies fan I am surprised that Marlon Anderson and Eric Valent haven't taken over the right side of the Met infield.

Oh wait, they are Marlon Anderson and Eric Valent. Nevermind.

BTW, did anyone else catch Abreu's whiff in the 9th ahead of Howard's HR? Like a true Philly fan I will now ignore the 3 hits he did have in the game. Abreu is a bum.

We need either that or alternatively we need Christian Guzman to come through and threaten for the cycle three more times.

You're right, 2 of 3 from the Giants it is.

Cristian Guzman's OPS v. the Mets in 2005:

1.055

"Aybar, Edwards and Navarro, those three young guys stepped up with key at-bats," Tracy said. "We got Derek more than enough runs to work with."
Tracy must not know his age

578 What? Tracy didn't learn from his past mistake?

I've been noticing a curious trend wherein the DT comments seem to be influencing actual events:

2 days ago it was, "How much have Yhency's struggles really cost us?"

Yesterday, it was "When will Olmedo actually break down?"

Lemme just try some things here:

What do you guys say we package Edwards, Myrow and Phillips for Albert Pujols?

The Dodgers will win 15 out 16, win the division by 4 games, and end up in the World Series. The key to the LCS will be when Phillips is squeezed in by Kent.

Scott Erickson will not be on the post seasno roster.

If you want to ask Tom Boswell what he thinks of Frank Robinson, he is doing an online chat at Washingtonpost.com right now. Must say, I have no idea what he means in his answer on the injury point in this Q&A:

Thanks, NY: Finally, after a season of F-Rob, we see a manager (Willie Randolph) on another team making puzzling late-game decisions to his team's detriment. I saw Randolph's defense of not playing the infield at double-play depth in the ninth, but what about pitching to Castilla in the 10th? Did he not realize Osik was on deck?

Tom Boswell: Randolph claimed afterward that he (and his staff) didn't know that Schneider could not play because of his sore shoulder. So, they thought Schneider would pinch-hit for Osik. A really bad mistake. Schneider's condition had been reported in the papers and was even on the Nats MLB website. Just a complete screw up. Randolph is one of my favorite people, but his first year as a manager has NOT gone well.

(After the game Schneider told me, "Hey, I can lift it shoulder high today. I'm getting MUCH better. He refuses to take an MRI. Hey, why do that? It might show a real injury, then he couldn't play. If he just ignores the injury "maybe it'll feel better." If a couple of Nats pitchers had taken this view __not one I'm recommending__ the Nats prospects might be quite different.

Saenz is out for tonite's game according to the Dodger notes.

RHP Brett Tomko is starting for the Giants.

Whom will play 1st base for the Dodgers?

In September, Jason Phillips is 2-23 (.083) average.

The other option is Hee Seop Choi.
A 3rd option is Brian Myrow.

Another one of those "biggest game of the seasons"...

Whom will Tracy pick?

I'll say Myrow again.

588 Nothing has changed since Myrow's last start, so Myrow it is. Choi's first HR of the season was off Tomko, right?

576 Yikes!

I think Mrs. Navarro would prefer a doctor, or at least a nurse.

590 Just so you know, someone's here laughing at that.

Bonds vs Penny- (4-9, 2HR's)
Bonds vs Weaver- (4-8, 3HR's)
Bonds vs Dessens- (4-13, 2HR's)

Phillips vs Tomko- (3-18)
Werth vs Tomko- (3-18, 1 HR)
Robles vs Tomko- (0-6)
Choi vs Tomko- (3-11, 1 HR)
Valentin vs Tomko- (5-20)

Well somebody will have to play first base or else no one will catch the throws on ground outs.

593 - Lowe's not pitching, so everyone's safe.

I don't know if this clarifies my earlier excerpt from the Boswell chat, or makes it more confusing. I report, you decide.

Anonymous: Just curious. John Patterson's performance on the field this year has been a huge, huge plus. Tom, are you with Frank, and apparently some of the players, in the feeling that he's not coming back as soon as he should (especially with guys like Wilky & Castilla playing every game since the Spring with serious injuries).

Tom Boswell: Leave Patterson alone. Frank was over the line this time. Patterson has pitched hurt, come back early. The guy was sick as a dog. He left one game becasue he was so sick and was ineffective in another. He's a tall lean guy who needs to get semi-healthy, get his strength back and pitch four good games down the stretch.

This "tough guy" stuff can go to far. Patterson is definitely "a bridge to far" on this one. Sometimes, Frank just gets too cantankerous.

www.washingtonpost.com

Rotoworld.com is reporting that the Pirates might be interested in Jim Tracy next year.

Robert Fick states that the Padres are in the division race.

And Chicago papers are reporting that Steve Lyons has been contacted about working White Sox games on the radio.

596 One can only hope.

I actually think I would be happier losing Lyons than Tracy.

The White Sox continue to carry out their mad vision of hiring the worst possible broadcasting team in history.

And with any luck, we'll be able to soon say "The White Sox? They gone"

607. Indians still have 7 games left with the Royals. The White Sox better hope that either the Yank/Red Sox fall off. They could lose the AL Central and WC.

Until last season, only three teams had gone longer than the Giants since their last World Championship: Red Sox, White Sox and Cubs. Red Sox victory last year made it two teams. My goal is for the Giants to get to the #1 spot. Therefore, I must respectfully part company and root for the White Sox.

A new thread is open up top.

604

i like your reasoning. plus, chicago has suffered long enough. if it's one of them or boston/newyork, then i'm rooting for chicago. otherwise i'm rooting for oakland.

603 And the Indians also have 3 games vs. Tampa Bay...

Indians: 3 vs KC, 4 @ KC, 3 vs TB

Wh Sox: 3 @ MIN, 4 vs MIN, 4 @ DET

Indians v Wh Sox: 3 in Chicago, 3 in Cleveland

Cleveland still has to make up 4 1/2 games, but their schedule is far easier than the Sox's.