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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Power Up
2005-09-21 11:40
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

I would be very guarded on not letting the past two weeks yield too much optimism on Jose Cruz, Jr. and Willy Aybar, or at least recognize that we're probably seeing them at their peak as far as 2006 is concerned.

I do think Aybar might be a nice little infielder if the other parts around him are strong. But the Dodgers can't afford too many guys like him with as little power he offers.

Consider this batting order. This is the minimum amount of homers I'd like to see.

1 - 5 HR
2 - 15 HR
3 - 30 HR
4 - 30 HR
5 - 25 HR
6 - 20 HR
7 - 15 HR
8 - 5 HR
PH - 5 HR
Total - 150 HR

That means only two players in your lineup can hit fewer than 10 homers. Say those guys are Aybar and whoever plays shortstop. Can the Dodgers find six other positions to hit double-digit home runs, to combine for 135 homers? Don't forget, you're not going to get many homers out of catcher. That means you need the remaining five positions to contribute a bunch of taters.

J.D. Drew and Jeff Kent probably can combine for more than 50. But if Aybar is in your lineup, you really need your outfield corners and first base to knock the ball out of the park on a regular basis.

Update: Somewhat related to the above, Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus chops at the legs of one myth today: that the Chicago White Sox win without hitting home runs.

Watching some of the coverage of the White Sox the last couple of days, I'm struck by how the "Sox are a small ball team" meme just won't go away. They're not a small-ball team! They're about as reliant on the home run as they were a year ago, and among the most reliant on the home run as any team in the AL, as James Click's numbers show:

White Sox Pct. Of Runs on HR

2004: 44.4% (AL: 36.8%)
2005: 41.8% (AL: 36.5%)

2005 Rankings

Rangers 48.9%
Yankees 42.7%
White Sox 41.8%
Orioles 39.9%
Indians 39.6%
Red Sox 37.7%
Tigers 35.4%
Devil Rays 34.9%
A's 32.9%
Twins 31.7%
Angels 31.4%
Blue Jays 30.6%
Mariners 30.4%
Royals 27.9%

That's the White Sox: a team that scores more than 40% of its runs on home runs. You can steal all the bases you want, burn up two or three outs a game on sacrifice bunts and caught stealings, but if you're this reliant on homers to score, you're not a small-ball team.

Sheehan goes on to argue that in fact, the White Sox are winning because how much they have improved at run prevention. He does not make the case that home run power translates directly to victories.

Comments (306)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-21 12:02:25
1.   Bob Timmermann
No shooting of the messenger....

Random Dodger Game Callback

September 21, 1999

The Dodgers smashed four home runs against Giants pitching and they cruised to a 9-4 win at Dodger Stadium to give Australian rookie Jeff Williams his first major league win before a crowd of 31,881. But the Dodgers had been eliminated from pennant consideration for a while. The win improved the Dodgers record to 71-80, 20 games behind first place Arizona and in fourth place.

After Williams gave up a run to the Giants in the first, first baseman Eric Karros gave the Dodgers a lead with a 3-run homer in the bottom of the first. It was Karros's 33rd homer of the season.

Left fielder Gary Sheffield hit his 28th homer in the fifth, catcher Paul Lo Duca hit his third one in the sixth and right fielder Raul Mondesi hit his 31st in the seventh. The Dodgers had eleven hits overall.

Williams went five innings and allowed no earned runs. Relievers Robinson Checo and Onan Masaoka allowed three runs in the sixth and seventh innings. Jeff Shaw pitched a scoreless ninth inning.

1999 was a season of big changes for the Dodgers. The team had a new general manager, Kevin Malone. And he brought in a new manager, Davey Johnson (after Felipe Alou turned down the job). Malone made sure people knew he was. He described himself as the "new sheriff" in the NL West and he signed Padres ace Kevin Brown to a seven-year $105 million contract.

And it was pretty much all downhill from there. The Dodgers went 77-85 for the season and finished 23 games behind the first place Diamondbacks in third place.

Brown went 18-9 with a 3.00 ERA and struck out 221. But the rest of the staff struggled. Chan Ho Park was 13-11 with a 5.23 ERA. Ismael Valdes (not yet Valdez) was 9-14 with a 3.98 ERA. Darren Dreifort was 13-13 with a 4.79 ERA. Carlos Perez was 2-10 with a 7.43 ERA.

The offense had its share of power hitters with Karros and Sheffield both hitting 34 homers. Mondesi hit 33 homers. Catcher Todd Hundley hit 24, but batted .207, and was shaky behind the plate. 20-year old third baseman Adrian Beltre batted .275 with 15 home runs.

The 1999 season was epitomized by the final game of the year. The Dodgers were in Houston. The Astros and Reds were competing for the NL Central title and the Mets were also in the mix as the wild card. The Astros held a one-game lead over the Reds on the last day of the season and the Reds had the same record as the Mets.

Johnson said that he would have started Brown on three days rest on the last day of the season if Brown had 19 wins. But Brown had lost to the Giants in his last start, so Johnson decided to start Robinson Checo. He also opted to rest Sheffield after his left fielder topped the century mark in both RBI and walks.

Meanwhile the Astros started 21-game winner Mike Hampton and their regular lineup. It was no contest. The Astros scored four runs in the first to chase Checo and went on to a 9-4 win.

Lost amidst all the turmoil in 1999 was the debut of rookie right-handed starter Eric Gagne. In five starts, Gagne was 1-1 with a 2.10 ERA.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, Retrosheet, and

2005-09-21 13:03:55
2.   Sushirabbit
So, what does everyone think is the "brightest spot" of this season?

I guess, you have to say Kent, but I mean more in the sense of Gagne in Bob's RDGC.

I guess my vote goes for Robles.

2005-09-21 13:13:18
3.   molokai
Kent has to be the bright spot but he only did what was expected. Robles did more then expected but still is nothing more then a utility player. I think Navarro gets the future bright spot because he was actually better then advertised and should be a fixture for years to come.

My highlight of the year was the destruction of the Twins by Choi. The opening day win against the Giants is 2nd.

The lowlight moment was getting swept by the Royals. The lowlight player is Werth but he has lots of company.

2005-09-21 13:14:27
4.   Bob Timmermann
My high point is the home opener win over the Giants.

The best player is Kent and there is about a 24-way tie for second.

2005-09-21 13:21:47
5.   oldbear
The Ocean Temps in the Gulf must be way higher than average. Two CAT 5 Hurricanes in the span of 3 weeks....Unheard of. Probably has never happened in the Gulf of Mexico ever. At least not since stats have been kept.

Now back to Dodger baseball.

2005-09-21 13:26:25
6.   oldbear
1. I think the worst case of bad luck the Dodgers has with signing a guy, then the player going in the tank was Carlos Perez. Perez IIRC threw 3-4 complete game shutouts after he was traded for that final month of Aug/Sept. The Dodgers, obviously looking at Perez's age and hot streak, think he'd be a good investment.

It totally fails. But I dont fault Lasorda or Malone for giving him that deal. Carlos Perez was lights out for those 1st couple months he came over. And he was in his prime. Who knew he'd tank horribly?

2005-09-21 13:31:34
7.   sanchez101
3. I think werth had a decent season, id take phillips or valentin as Least Valuable Dodger.

"fun" fact
ross/mayne 2004: 0.3 warp
phillips 2005: 0.4 warp

2005-09-21 13:40:51
8.   FirstMohican
3 - I think Kent has exceeded my expectations. Putting up the numbers he has - considering the protection he has gotten behind him, and the often AAA players in front of him - really is impressive.

7 - Another vote for Valentin, but as Least Valuble Dodger Regular When Playing. He played decently in the first few weeks, and props to him for somehow playing an inning AFTER he tore three ligaments in his knee, but his season is dissapointing even with the low expectations everyone had.

2005-09-21 13:40:58
9.   Steve
2005-09-21 13:49:06
10.   molokai
I expected more from Werth then I did from Philips or Valentin. Valentin was on the wrong side of his career so falling off the cliff was very possible. I don't see how a 390 slug % is decent for a corner outfielder. His OBP was okay for guy batting 245. I'm sure his wrist injury is to blame for some of the lack of power but I still didn't see any power during August or September. One home run against Pedro does not atone for a season of bad at bats.
2005-09-21 13:57:14
11.   sanchez101
10. Phillips and Valentin were replacement level players, werth was not. Dont forget about defense, Phillips and Valentin were less than replacement level defenders, werth played a solid CF.
2005-09-21 14:01:32
12.   regfairfield
I think relative to hopes, Werth has been the biggest dissapointment. I had money put down on the fact that he would hit 25 home runs this year, and he would provide a power bat the Dodgers so desperately needed.

The loss of an estimated 40ish home runs from Valentin and Werth has truly hurt.

2005-09-21 14:02:04
13.   oldbear
11. I expect a comeback year from Werth next year. He's improved his command of the K zone, OBP-BA spread of 100 points is pretty good. I have to think his wrist just isnt strong enough yet to hit for power. That, or last year he was on the juice and this year he isnt.

Most disappointing Dodger? I'm not sure. I tend to not get down on players that are used wrongly to begin with. Its not Jason Phillips fault he was used to much. Nor Izturis. Nor Repko. I thought Milton Bradley would have a better year than he did. I think he'd be my most 'disappointing' Dodger, if I had to pick one.

2005-09-21 14:03:48
14.   Icaros
One home run against Pedro does not atone for a season of bad at bats.

No, it sure doesn't, but if you had to pick only one moment for Werth to come up big this season that was probably the one. I was tired of watching them get shown up by Pedro.

2005-09-21 14:04:15
15.   regfairfield
Actually, going to change my answer. After his start this year, and the end of the last year, Brazoban has probably been the biggest dissapointment.
2005-09-21 14:07:01
16.   Icaros
I think Brazoban is up there on the disappointment scale. We all knew he would regress from the previous year, and he started off pretty well.

But he became just about unusable when the second-half rolled around.

2005-09-21 14:07:59
17.   Howard Fox
I always looked at Phillips as a temp until Navarro or Martin moved up.

Valentin gave us exactly what he has done in recent years, so he was not a disappointment to me.

Werth, I hope, suffered from the sophomore jinx. But I suspect not.

Hard to rate anyone who spent a substantial amount of time being on the DL. And having said that...

...most disappointing? probably Izturis prior to going on the DL.

Most pleasant surprise? Kent performing at the level he did with no support whatsoever notwithstanding, I would go with Navarro.

2005-09-21 14:08:22
18.   Icaros
15 D'oh, regfairfield!

Are you from Fairfield, CA, by the way?

2005-09-21 14:10:30
19.   regfairfield
Nope, though I do get asked that a lot.
2005-09-21 14:11:02
20.   Icaros
Valentin gave us exactly what he has done in recent years, so he was not a disappointment to me.

Minus the playing a full season and hitting 25-30 HRs like he had for 5 straight years, I guess.

2005-09-21 14:11:40
21.   Icaros
19 I'd say you're lucky, then.
2005-09-21 14:13:59
22.   Howard Fox
20 having been a hitter in the high 100s or low 200s, I never really expected him to hit that many homeruns
2005-09-21 14:17:03
23.   Howard Fox
further on Valentin, it would be difficult to believe that had he been healthy all season, and had 500 or so at bats, that 25% or so of his hits would be homeruns...

that is kind of a Bonds type rate of homeruns per time making contact...

2005-09-21 14:17:34
24.   kent
17- in recent years valentin has been good for 25+ hr's. this year he hit 2, both in the first week.

To me O/P was a top disappointment because he signed a 3 yr deal and only started 17 games in the 1st yr of it.

2005-09-21 14:18:38
25.   Howard Fox
OP's year was not substantially different from recent years, although at my age, I may not be remembering correctly
2005-09-21 14:20:53
26.   kent
My dissappointment w/ OP is that he has another 2 yrs at 10 mil per and he couldn't even deliver in yr one of his deal. what can we expect for yrs 2 & 3?
2005-09-21 14:22:49
27.   regfairfield
25 This was a very bad year for Odalis, and, if injuries are considered, is probably the biggest disappointment overall.
2005-09-21 14:25:04
28.   King of the Hobos
BA does not like our GCL or Ogden players. They rated them almost the same, DeJesus and a guy who doesn't look that good. Despite leading Ogden to the playoffs, Leach, Meloan, Mitchell, Sutherland, Apodaca, and Locke all failed to make the Pioneer top 20 list. BA seems to rely too much on age for the Lioneer League, which is designed for college players. Juan Rivera did almost nothing in Ogden, yet gets 13th, apparently he has some good tools, but a 148 lb SS is just a future Izzy. DeJesus landed at 20th (despite making the GCL list), I see more in his future than Rivera

Can someone with a BA membership explain to me what in their scouting reports made Sanfler and Rivera so much better than Leach, Meloan, Mitchell, Sutherland, Apodaca, Locke, Van Slyke, Bell, Perez, Wall, Johnson, Hobdy, and probably a few other guys I missed?

After quicklu skimming the Q&A, this is the only Dodger thing I could find

Q: Ian from London, UK asks:
I thought a couple of catchers might make the list- Kiel Thibault and Juan Apodaca. Both hit, and weren't geriatric (Apodaca 19, Thibault 21). Are they prospects? And how's their defense?
A: Alan Matthews: Thibault was the Royals' ninth-round pick this year from Gonzaga. He's advanced defensively and draws praise for his poise and game-calling ability. Apodaca is younger and turned in a good season at Ogden, though he has a lot of room for improvement in all phases of his game. Both guys were on the fringe of making the list.

2005-09-21 14:28:26
29.   Icaros
further on Valentin, it would be difficult to believe that had he been healthy all season, and had 500 or so at bats, that 25% or so of his hits would be homeruns...

But that's exactly what he had done for five straight years, 2000-2004. I'm not making it up.

We knew he'd have a low BA, but when he hit he used to hit for lots of power and was usually pretty streaky.

Hey, he was certainly a bust, but I would have liked to see him play a full season facing only right-handed pitching without a torn up knee.

2005-09-21 14:31:22
30.   Howard Fox
29 and he could have platooned with APerez who would play against left handers, and Choi could have platooned with Saenz at, let's have a do-over...
2005-09-21 14:39:48
31.   GoBears
30. Exactly. Injuries and Jim Tracy foiled Depo's platoon plans. So we don't know if the platoons would have worked well. Until Choi's post ASB benching, the 1st base platoon actually did very well. At 3rd, the refusal to play AP after a while meant a revolving door of dreck, with Robles-Edwards the new platoon idea.
2005-09-21 14:40:15
32.   Howard Fox
As far as Jon's comment on getting too excited about Aybar, I see a seat next to APerez for him in the very near future.
2005-09-21 14:41:40
33.   Icaros
31 This is why Tracy should take the Pittsburgh gig and go to a team that has no plan in the first place.
2005-09-21 14:42:32
34.   Howard Fox
31 the way Edwards was inserted in the lineup, I am surprised he wasn't tried as the closer...

I have never been able to figure out what Tracy's love affair with him is about...

2005-09-21 14:43:37
35.   GoBears
32 I think you're right, Howard. But in 2007, when Kent is gone, Aybar/Perez would be a pretty neat 2b combo. We'd have to find Kent's SLG somewhere else, however.
2005-09-21 14:43:39
36.   Icaros
I believe the Choi/Saenz platoon was OPSing top 5 in the league before Tracy inexplicably pulled the plug on it.
2005-09-21 14:44:11
37.   Howard Fox
33 he'll stay here...he believes we are just one sacrifice or pitching change away from the gold at the end of the rainbow...
2005-09-21 14:44:41
38.   GoBears
34 Well, for one thing, JT seems to think Edwards is a young guy. Compared to Tracy, he is, but in absolute terms, um, not so much.
2005-09-21 14:46:20
39.   GoBears
36, 38: I'm rooting for a clubhouse revolt in the last 2 weeks, led by veterans, that provides an "irreconcilable differences" justification for a divorce.
2005-09-21 14:47:43
40.   Howard Fox
39 Kent won't take part in anything like that, and no one cares what any of the others think
2005-09-21 14:48:41
41.   Icaros
37 Maybe he's confusing Mike Edwards with a leprechaun.
2005-09-21 14:54:41
42.   Bob Timmermann
Being considered "young" is all relative. Edwards is relatively new to the majors, so Tracy thinks he's young.

I was called "the new guy" at work for about 8 years.

2005-09-21 14:56:34
43.   Steve
There was already a clubhouse revolt but it came four years too early.
2005-09-21 15:06:44
44.   CanuckDodger
28 -- Miguel Sanfler made Baseball America's GCL Top 20 because of his tools. He is a left-hander with Hong-Chih Kuo "stuff": a fastball that reaches 95-96 MPH, a curve that falls off a table, and a change-up that has the potential to be above-average with slider movement. Sanfler's numbers were not better than they were because he has to learn location and consistency (he tends to leave his fastball up in the strike zone, and his secondary pitches don't always "work). Also, from a different source than Baseball America, I read that the GCL Dodgers' pitching coach said of Sanfler that "he's got to have one of the top left arms in the organization. He reminds me of Vida Blue."

As for Juan Rivera, Baseball America loves his defense, and he's a plus runner. They think in time he will hit line drives consistently.

2005-09-21 15:10:31
45.   King of the Hobos
44 Thanks. I figured Sanfler must have plus stuff considering his age, especially for the GCL
2005-09-21 15:11:11
46.   trainwreck
Just in case anyone is looking for something to do...
2005-09-21 15:11:25
47.   Howard Fox
you can tell that universal acceptance has set in...
2005-09-21 15:18:25
48.   Bob Timmermann
Doesn't that mean we all have AB blood?
2005-09-21 15:24:54
49.   Howard Fox
O positive
2005-09-21 15:26:18
50.   oldbear
47. Yes, for now it has. If the Dodgers manage to win these last two in Arizona, some denial may creep back in in the form of: "7 game homestand vs Pirates/Dbax. Sweep the homestand against these two terrible teams and we're right back in it"

Hope springs until were officially eliminated given whom we play, and whom were chasing.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-21 15:30:51
51.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers can't be eliminated until Friday at the earliest.

The Padres will be in Arizona that day and the Dodgers will be at home and facing Paul Maholm of the Pirates.

2005-09-21 15:32:01
52.   Bob Timmermann

Perhaps we can set up a registry of every DT reader's blood type, so we can set up our own blood bank. Or maybe we can sell some of our blood and donate it to Frank McCourt.

2005-09-21 15:42:30
53.   Howard Fox
I'd say right now the odds are better of me winning a big prize on Fan Appreciation Day than of the Dodgers catching the Padres.
2005-09-21 15:43:00
54.   Nagman
Padres are putting up a big Magic # countdown on top of the Western Metals Bldg in left field at Petco.

Is this unprecendented? What if they choke? Have you seen other teams do this? I wouldn't set myself up like that.

2005-09-21 15:48:42
55.   Howard Fox
54 they know who is "chasing" them
2005-09-21 15:53:18
56.   Adam M

1) Drew starting the season 0 for everything.

2) Izturis backsliding.

3) Nakamura.

2005-09-21 15:56:46
57.   Jon Weisman
54 - They're probably on safe ground, although their pitching sure gives one pause. Reminds me of the famous Dodger "Countdown to 500 HR" for Fred McGriff. Ah, those were the salad days ...
2005-09-21 15:58:02
58.   Nagman
For me the most disappointing moment of the season was finding out the extent of Drew's injury.

As far as which player disappointed me the most, as far as expectations vs. results, none other than the enigmatic H.S. Choi. No fault of his own (but maybe in a way it is since he failed to convince), but I thought we'd know more about him by now, in a good way.

2005-09-21 16:06:41
59.   Marty
There were a lot of big disappointments this year. Gagne's injury I think has to be the biggest. Drew's is a close second.
2005-09-21 16:12:29
60.   willhite
I haven't been around for a couple of days, but did anyone see the Bob Nightengale article in USA Today yesterday. Analyzed the likelihood that a number of GM's wouldn't be around by the beginning of next year.

He put DePo's odds at being here at 60% but the most interesting comment was that DePo has told friends that he is miserable here.
That may only be because nothing worked out this year, but I thought it was an interesting statement (assuming it has any foundation in truth).

2005-09-21 16:16:53
61.   Nagman
Bonds, 2 run shot in the 1st...
2005-09-21 16:19:59
62.   Jon Weisman
60 - We have discussed this and I think found it not worth discussing.

That unsourced, no-context "DePo telling friends" remark is going to be a thorn in my side for weeks, I'm thinking. So irresponsible. And yet people will run with it.

2005-09-21 16:30:48
63.   willhite
62 -

Thanks Jon. I'll sleep better tonight.

2005-09-21 16:39:19
64.   scanderbeg

Disappointment is reserved for something that garners high (or, for that matter, any) expectations. I never for one minute expected Nakamura to last in the big leagues. Am I the only one? I didn't even expect to see his name outside of a punchline at this point in the season.

2005-09-21 16:47:43
65.   Tommy Naccarato
Dinner at El Cholo if Jeff Kent and J.D. Drew hit 50 in 2006. I think you will in fact be owing me after the end of the 2006 season.

Better yet, make it Sonora Cafe.

Bob, remember that!

2005-09-21 16:50:26
66.   willhite
65 -
Are you assuming one or both will have lower than normal home run years or that JD will be injured again?
2005-09-21 16:52:21
67.   Xeifrank
Jet Blue airbus plane can't get wheels down for landing at LAX, MSNBC says it's going to attempt to land on foam after dumping fuel. Watch out if you live in the area.
vr, Xei
2005-09-21 16:52:26
68.   Eric L

It seems as if the context is key for the Nightengale quote.

You can take it a million different ways if you really want to.

Maybe he is miserable because the team stinks.

Maybe he is miserable because he has a bad relationship with Jim Tracy.

Maybe he is miserable because he hates LA.

Obviously those are just a few examples, but they all mean different things (I guess).

For all we know, he told friends one day that he was miserable because he had a broken tooth and wasn't able to get to the dentist because he was too busy with the draft or something.

Just to steal from what you said, the quote doesn't mean a darn thing in it's current context.

2005-09-21 16:54:07
69.   Mark
My biggest disappointment was Derek Lowe. Here was one of the stars of the Boston World Series win, a sinkerball pitcher, coming into a pitchers park, and he decides to screw around on his wife and give up 15 HRs at Chavez Ravine on his way to 14 losses. Good times.

Jason Phillips cannot, by definition, have disappointed anyone. He's Jason Phillips for gods sake. What do you expect?

2005-09-21 16:56:40
70.   Jon Weisman
65 - It's too risky a bet (except for the fact that I'm happy to pay for any dinner at El Cholo) - but in my mind, more because Kent is due for a dropoff than my concerns over Drew.
2005-09-21 16:57:29
71.   Xeifrank
Disqualifying any players that suffered significant injuries, I'd have to say Brazoban was the player I was disappointed the most in. At the beginning of the season I had high hopes that he'd make us somewhat forget Eric Gagne, but that was shortlived.
vr, Xei
2005-09-21 16:57:47
72.   Bob Timmermann
I will remember.

But I really just want peace in our time!

2005-09-21 17:01:01
73.   Bob Timmermann links a story on its front page that Lance Armstrong took a puppy he owns in for open-heart surgery.

Where's the story about me taking my cat in for cancer surgery?

2005-09-21 17:05:35
74.   Mark
73 Great, now we know who's going to win the next 7 years of Cat Fancy's Cat Shows.
2005-09-21 17:06:02
75.   Mark
Did I say cat? I meant Westminster Dog Show. Way to make me read, Bob.
2005-09-21 17:30:46
76.   dzzrtRatt
62 I actually know one of DePo's friends. Actually a friend of his wife's. So I'll ask her to find out from her girlfriend if her hubby seems unhappy. They probably brunch together and talk about their successful husbands.

But you would have no more reason to believe me, an anonymous blog comment poster, than to believe Nightengale.

2005-09-21 17:30:48
77.   OaklandAs
The media makes it look like the players DePodesta brought in have all struggled, while the players he let go haven't. In reality, a lot of his new players have done well (Kent, Penny, Lowe, Navarro, Cruz, Ledee), and many of those who left have done poorly (Beltre, Lima, Ishii, Cora, JHernandez). The real problem for the Dodgers (aside from injuries and the crazy starting lineups) is that so many of the returning players have done worse than last year (Werth, OPerez, Brazoban, Bradley, Izturis, Alvarez, Carrara)
2005-09-21 17:31:24
78.   Bob Timmermann
Randy Winn must be stopped!

I will miss tonight's game as some friends are taking me out for dinner. The last time they treated me at this restaurant, the Dodgers beat Arizona and they were 4-1.

2005-09-21 17:38:13
79.   Jon Weisman
Bob, you will surely miss Vin Scully mentioning that this is the 25th anniversary of Jim Tracy's first major league home run. One of three in Tracy's career.
2005-09-21 17:41:41
80.   molokai
77 The media and Tommy N
2005-09-21 17:42:35
81.   Marty
Bob, was that Polka?
2005-09-21 17:43:38
82.   OaklandAs
Choi gets one more chance in the starting lineup, probably because of the injury to Saenz and Navarro's absence, as does APerez. Unfortunately, Kent is not starting tonight, so Robles bats 3rd again.

3B Aybar
1B Choi
SS Robles
RF Cruz, Jr.
2B APerez
C Phillips
LF Werth
CF Repko
P Penny

2005-09-21 17:45:45
83.   D4P
I predict that Choi will go deep tonight. It has to happen sometime, doesn't it?
2005-09-21 17:48:50
84.   willhite
76 -
You're a regular contributor to DT, therefore your word is gospel.

82 -
How many homers does tonight's starting lineup have this year? Probably quite a few less than Andruw by himself.

2005-09-21 17:52:48
85.   Tommy Naccarato
I'm going to let the air out of the tires of your Edsel!

If you read, I think Depo's aquisition of Cruz to be a very good move. I think his aquisition of Finley was a very good move. I suspect by te end of the season, Cruz will not be resigned just like Finley.

They are nothing but quick fixes for problem areas. Once they aren't resigned, then you have the very same situation after the season--the same problem--which in Depo's case, he'll sign a mediocre talent to fill that void.

2005-09-21 17:52:59
86.   trainwreck
Wow look like the Los Angeles Royals with that lineup.
2005-09-21 17:54:35
87.   Steve
85 -- You mean Alex Cora's coming back!
2005-09-21 17:56:53
88.   Tommy Naccarato
87 Right!
2005-09-21 17:59:23
89.   Steve
And Beltre! And Lima! And Green! And Finley! And LoDuca! Mediocrity Rules!
2005-09-21 18:00:08
90.   OaklandAs
84 This lineup has 62 HR, but if you only count the ones Cruz hit as a Dodger, it's down to 50.
2005-09-21 18:01:59
91.   Sam DC
SF Pitcher Brad Hennessy has a double and a home run off John Patterson in DC.
2005-09-21 18:02:22
92.   Tommy Naccarato
That mediocrity combined to win the division last year.

What is this years mediocrity doing?

2005-09-21 18:03:34
93.   Steve
Doing what last year's mediocrity would be doing if it was still playing here.
2005-09-21 18:06:33
94.   willhite
I would love to hear JT's explanation as to why Robles is a good #3 hitter, even in this sad excuse for a lineup.

No one can accuse Tracy of being a "traditionalist" since that would dictate batting your power hitter (in tonight's lineup that would be Choi)in the cleanup position, your best guy at moving people along (possibly Robles) in the #2 and your best overall hitter #3 (tonight's lineup has nobody who qualifies to bat in that position).

2005-09-21 18:06:52
95.   Eric L
Once they aren't resigned, then you have the very same situation after the season--the same problem--which in Depo's case, he'll sign a mediocre talent to fill that void.

You may be on to something Tommy, but at least DePo didn't resign the less than mediocre talent that is known as Steve Finley, version 2005.

2005-09-21 18:08:32
96.   Sam DC

Third most intense on record? Ever?

2005-09-21 18:09:42
97.   Tommy Naccarato
Hey, if we are going with the "J.D. Drew What-if" analogy, then injuries are to be considered in that mediocrity, no?
2005-09-21 18:10:25
98.   Steve
You may be on to something Tommy, but at least DePo didn't resign the less than mediocre talent that is known as ________

That blank can be filled in ten times over.

2005-09-21 18:11:46
99.   Steve
We're not going with the J.D. Drew What-If analogy. That is a product of your fevered imagination. We're going with the "J.D. Drew was hit with a pitched ball" fact, which is irrefutable.
2005-09-21 18:12:20
100.   Tommy Naccarato
This is true, and hopefully not year after year. I would hate that.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-21 18:13:38
101.   Tommy Naccarato
So you think its a players decision when and where he gets hurt? Is that what your trying to say?
2005-09-21 18:24:13
102.   Steve
No. I don't even understand what you mean. I'm sure I will be most unsuccessful in communicating this, but you stated that we were playing the "J. D. Drew What If" Game. Those of us who favor JD Drew work on a few facts:

1) JD Drew, playing, had a .920 OPS

2) JD Drew was put out of commission by a pitched ball, an injury that has not only been suffered by various and sundry players over the past century, but one that was caused by a wholly external event, only foreseeable to the extent that such an event might happen to any player, at any time at the plate, regardless of his contract status.

These are facts. The only "What if" being played here is the now old, discredited, played out nonsense about "What if JD Drew has brittle bones" etc., arguments that if they were made by Dr. Nick, would get a hearty laugh on a Sunday evening.

2005-09-21 18:26:55
103.   Steve
To interrupt our latest war with good news (about time we had some), the JetBlue plane is apparently down safely.
2005-09-21 18:32:56
104.   Tommy Naccarato
2005-09-21 18:35:26
105.   Tommy Naccarato
Now back to what we were talking about.

Steve, are you suggesting that Steve Finley's injury was planned? Why should Steve Finley's season hampering injury be any different then J.D. Drew's? A player whom seems to make a good living on the DL.

2005-09-21 18:40:00
106.   Tommy Naccarato
"JD Drew was put out of commission by a pitched ball, an injury that has not only been suffered by various and sundry players over the past century, but one that was caused by a wholly external event, only foreseeable to the extent that such an event might happen to any player, at any time at the plate, regardless of his contract status."


Yes, the broken wrist was a freek accident, but its an injury. Steve Finley's problems this year were exactly that--INJURIES. How is it any different then any player that suffers an injury?

What players seem to get injured a lot in their careers? Don't think for a second Depodesta doesn't have that factored into his spread sheets.

2005-09-21 18:44:38
107.   Telemachos
105- In the interest of arguing, is your comparison between Finley and Cruz Jr, or Finley and Drew?

Your "mediocre" definition, I assume, is directed at Cruz Jr, since I don't think anyone would rule Drew "mediocre" (though of course many have leveled the "injury-prone" label at him).

Finley cost $14 million to resign for this season (and next season). Cruz Jr has, so far, cost a pittance of that, and if we resign him, would cost a fraction of what Finley's market value is.

2005-09-21 18:48:05
108.   Jesse
As of September 16, JD Drew is second on the team with 15 win shares. I wouldn't really call him a complete disappointment. It stinks that his current injury is disconnected to any in the past (hbp).

Interesting to note that Jeff Kent is in a three way tie with ARod and Brian Giles for third most win shares (31) in baseball.

Valentine is also an interesting dude. Every time I see his numbers .172 ba/ .326 obp, I can't help but wonder about his BABIP. He's never been a great hitter, but his obp coupled with his 4.36 p/pa make him a reasonably (sort of) cheap depo type guy. The loss of power sucks, though, and so do the Dodgers.

Thus, Jim Tracy is the most disappointing person on the team.

2005-09-21 18:48:05
109.   Telemachos
106- The equivalent of Finley's back problems would be if J.D. Drew messed up his previously injured knee in the outfield, and spent the majority of the season hitting .220. Finley's injury is based on his age and prior issues. Drew's wasn't.
2005-09-21 18:49:25
110.   Steve
If you can't sign anybody because they might get hit by a pitch, you can't sign anybody. Which is not a bad outcome given the "free" (in name only) market that inflates salaries.
2005-09-21 18:49:45
111.   Sam DC
106 I don't really get it. I think all Steve is saying is that a history of back problems or knee problems might be a useful predictor of getting a back injury or knee injury in the future, but a history of whatever kind of injury is no useful predictor of getting hit by a pitched ball on the wrist. Do you think that is wrong?

Another way to look at this is, it is fine to argue that it was a mistake to sign Drew to a 5 year contract because of his injury record, but his getting injured this year doesn't lend any support to that argument.

2005-09-21 18:50:08
112.   Steve
108 -- QED
2005-09-21 18:52:20
113.   Eric L
To quote

"The 40-year-old Finley has been fighting shoulder problems since the second game of the season at Angel Stadium, when he collided with the 8-foot fence trying to leap for Alfonso Soriano's tiebreaking home run in the 12th inning of a 3-2 loss to Texas on April 6."

2005-09-21 18:56:17
114.   D4P
What happened to Penny?
2005-09-21 18:56:26
115.   natepurcell
penny taken out of the game after 2 outs. grand!
2005-09-21 18:57:38
116.   trainwreck
Look like his lower back maybe.
2005-09-21 18:57:46
117.   Sam DC
Cleveland up 4-2 going into the 8th. They loaded the bases in the seventh but failed to score.
2005-09-21 18:58:41
118.   Jesse
Jose Valentine also leads the Dodgers with .166 bb/pa. in his limited time with the team. It is interesting to note the increase in walks for people like Valentine and Kent upon joining the team. I'm not really a Valentine apologist, but in the short term, I think I'd rather have him at short for a full year over Izturis, who I think we should trade to the highest bidder.
2005-09-21 18:59:02
119.   trainwreck
2005-09-21 18:59:04
120.   Sam DC
er, Cleveland up 2-0 I mean.
2005-09-21 19:10:35
121.   D4P
Vin said Penny had tightness in his right forearm.
2005-09-21 19:12:46
122.   natepurcell
penny with tightness in his forearm.

at least its not the nerve in the bicep acting up again.

2005-09-21 19:16:07
123.   natepurcell
will we see jackson in todays game even though he pitched 2 innings last night?
2005-09-21 19:20:58
124.   natepurcell
OT- anyone know anything about logicical empiricism and logical positivism?

specifically, observational and theoretical language?

i ask because i am currently writing a paper and to be blunt, the paper sucks.

2005-09-21 19:24:59
125.   D4P
See #83. I just had a feeling.
2005-09-21 19:25:39
126.   jasonungar05

Jim Tracy as Manager of Dodgers in August and September for his career. I find that unacceptable myself. When you consider all those teams were in the race at the time, the numbers are worse.

I realize there are many excuses in terms of roster talent, distractions(sheff/bradley etc) etc, but I am tired of defending him.

2005-09-21 19:26:26
127.   D4P
Purcey - What exactly do you want to know? I might be able to help.
2005-09-21 19:29:19
128.   Tommy Naccarato
The comparison wasn't about Cruz Jr. Like you, I think the Dodgers should sign him for next year.

Now remembering your dealing with an old guy here of 46 years, but I take issue with some of this! You will to when you reach my tender old age! Actually, I'll pit Finley's conditioning at 43 or whatever his age is, to any of ours at that age. He is a wonderment of great health and fitness and should be applauded for the effort.

Yes, his body is more then susceptable to injury, just like it was at 20 years old and any other age when competiting in sports. WE ARE ALL SUSCEPTABLE TO INJURY.

And yes, we do become more susceptable to injury as we get older. Ask Randy Johnson, he to has a shelf life. So did Nolan Ryan and Ricky Henderson.

But the main point with Steve is that he is almost making excuses for the time of the injury and how it affects a ball players season. Yes, it was a freek accident. But that's the particular event. It isn't the result. Whether its bending down in the shower and throwing out your back to having a wrist broken, an injury is an injury. Some of them are very bad, some of them not so bad.

The less time the better.

Now without having to go look anything up, Finley's problems were because of a back injury, correct? I suffer back problems a lot from golf, and I can tell you it affects everything I do when they occur.

So how can you compare a season where Finley misses almost the first half of it and then comes back and struggles at the plate to Drew who misses the last half of his season and struggled at the opening of the season?

-Both start the season on different teams.
-One starts in a completely different league.

Look, I'm not saying--and in a nice way, not being insulting like Steve, who is clearly an angry individual--that Finley is just about through. I dind't think he would make it into the second year of that contract. I really didn't, and that was the problem for Depodesta to begin with. He wanted a two-year deal and Depo wasn't going to give him that! It's understandable if your building for the future, but for winning today, well just throw-away that same money when you trade Shawn Green to a division competitor and pay him more then half of his salary. Don't sign Finley who could also be of help to the young talent thats coming up, as well as help being a more central figure--a leader. The role that Jeff Kent was never going to fill.

2005-09-21 19:29:57
129.   natepurcell
well, this is the topic question that i have to answer:

- The logical positivists and empiricists believed that the only source of scientific knowledge is observation, and that all observation is describable in observational language, but they never reached an agreement about where to draw the line between observational and theoretical language. Did that indicate a fundamental problem with logical empiricism?


2005-09-21 19:33:04
130.   GoBears
About the Drew injury: I completely agree with Steve that this was no in no way predictable, or the result of an injury-prone player.

BUT: In Tommy's defense, the proper counterfactual isn't to assume that Drew would have played the rest of the season, OPSing .920 and starting 150 or 160 games. One thing that the broken hand prevented was any other kind of injury. Drew might have torn up his knee in the next inning, or game, or week. We'll never know. The broken wrist wasn't because of his history of injuries, but his history of injuries still makes one discount his expected season-long production. Look at Bradley. I'd say that the finger injury he suffered was pretty freakish too. But then he returned, and tore up his knee. The first was probably not predictable because of "injury proneness." The second might have been.

That said, I like JD Drew. I liked the signing, and I'm optimistic about him next year. Who knows, maybe the extra time off will have given his body time to rest and will reduce the chance of a "normal" JD injury next year.

2005-09-21 19:33:38
131.   b1ued0dger
If Hee Seop Choi hits a homerun, but nobody posts about it did it really happen.
2005-09-21 19:34:23
132.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
That was a bomb hit to center by Glaus.
2005-09-21 19:35:16
133.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
I love Phillip's rainbow throw to second. Are you kidding me. This guy is not a catcher, let alone a baseball player.
2005-09-21 19:35:48
134.   Steve
That's not a defense of Tommy. That is a defense of me.

But the main point with Steve is that he is almost making excuses for the time of the injury and how it affects a ball players season. Yes, it was a freek accident. But that's the particular event. It isn't the result. Whether its bending down in the shower and throwing out your back to having a wrist broken, an injury is an injury. Some of them are very bad, some of them not so bad.

Yes, I get angry when you take your stupid argument, and call it my stupid argument. It peeves me, because my argument is a good argument, and I'd rather you took credit for your own dumb arguments.

2005-09-21 19:36:04
135.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
We would have about 8-9 more wins if JT would have played Choi and Perez regularly.
2005-09-21 19:37:50
136.   D4P
That's kind of a strange question. If the inability to draw the line is a problem with logical empiricism, why wouldn't it also be a problem with positivism? I guess that the short answer is probably "Yes." Am I correct in interpreting "observational language" to mean singular statements about a particular observation or event, whereas "theoretical language" means universal statements about all events?
2005-09-21 19:39:59
137.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
136-You sounded just like J.T. right there.
Classic J.T. interview material.
2005-09-21 19:42:02
138.   Eric L
Can't we all just get along?

Seriously, from what I posted above (that no one read) Finley's shoulder injury seemed to be of the freak type as well.

As for JD Drew, his injury had nothing to do with anything injuries he suffered in the past. He might be an unlucky guy though.

2005-09-21 19:42:10
139.   Fallout
128. Tommy Naccarato

Some people can't see the forest through their computer generated trees...

2005-09-21 19:42:46
140.   GoBears
135: I like Choi and Perez probably more than you do, and I find that estimation silly. Choi and Perez might have added more runs, but how those translate into wins depends on a lot of other things too.

And when you consider that many of Choi's extra ABs (which I also wish he'd had) would have come at the expense of Saenz, who was plenty productive.

If you just take every game in which Phillips played first and plug in Choi instead (what did Jon tell us - 17 of them?), and every game in which Edwards or Robles played 3rd and plug in Perez, I doubt you'd get as far as 8-9 wins.

2005-09-21 19:42:52
141.   natepurcell
Am I correct in interpreting "observational language" to mean singular statements about a particular observation or event, whereas "theoretical language" means universal statements about all events?

observational language refers to sensory language. ill use an example in the book:
"Red" = Observational term
"Electron" = Theoretical term
"The rod is glowing red"
"Helium atoms contain two electrons

I think the answer is yes too. but i just can put down "yes" for a 8 page paper.

2005-09-21 19:44:28
142.   Tommy Naccarato
Losing your cool in a discussion isn't what I call discussion. Your the one that's arguing and resulting to insults.

Another thing is you don't do yourself any favors calling other opinions dumb or stupid. It doesn't help this great website one bit. You might as well just link it to the Dodger main page where the real name calling occurs. I'm sure that's where you get it, because we never used to have it here-BEFORE you ever even started frequenting here.

Cheers and best wishes

2005-09-21 19:45:00
143.   natepurcell
If the inability to draw the line is a problem with logical empiricism, why wouldn't it also be a problem with positivism?

well from what i understand(i might not even be understanding it right), the positivists are an extreme version of the empiricists and they strictly believe observational language is the only way to gain knowledge. Whereas the logical empiricsts are more liberal in their stance- meaning their stance on where to draw the line is vague and varies from empiricist thinking to a different empiricist thinker.

2005-09-21 19:45:13
144.   GoBears
re my 140: I should have added that I could be wrong (8-9 just seemed really high) and that this is probably something that the proper sabermetric techniques could figure out. How 'bout starting with RC/27 comparisons?
2005-09-21 19:46:41
145.   natepurcell
holy crap! osoria now has goggles!

it his now his destiny to be transformed into an elite relief pitcher.

2005-09-21 19:48:09
146.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
144-How about the KF comparisons?
2005-09-21 19:48:13
147.   Tommy Naccarato
Thanks for posting that about Finley. As a Dodger fan, I tried to avoid the Angels like I like to avoid acid reflux, so I didn't know the full 411.

This would be very true. All of those stats and no Division play-offs to go to. Very deep clutter those trees!

2005-09-21 19:48:55
148.   natepurcell
everyone see aybar with the beltre-esque play on the bunt? that was pretty.
2005-09-21 19:49:28
149.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
145-Osoria has been wearing goggles for awhile now. It's not a new look for him.
2005-09-21 19:49:45
150.   D4P
Not sure if this helps, but let me see if we agree about something. Positivists thought that it was possible to discover universal laws by repeatedly observing the same phenomenon over and over. If the same thing happened every time you observed it, then that was taken as evidence of a law. Empiricists were different in that they rejected this form of inductive logic, and argued instead that you can never actually prove anything; you can only disprove something. No matter how many times you observe the same thing, there's always a chance that the next time could be different. Is that right?

Back to your paper, it seems to me that, if you believe that observation is the only source of knowledge, then how is it even possible to have theoretical knowledge if the subject matter of that knowledge can't be observed? I think the positivists believed that repeated observations were evidence of an underlying theory, but the empiricists argued that you couldn't prove such a belief.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-21 19:51:31
151.   D4P
I agree. The positivists were much more hardline than the empiricists, and I think you're right that there was more variation in thinking among the empiricists than among the positivists.
2005-09-21 19:54:29
152.   Telemachos
142 Tommy, I'd argue that Drew, while he struggled initially, was actually playing quite well when he got hurt. I don't recall any stretch this year where Finley played remotely well.

I agree that it's unreasonable and/or unrealistic to expect a 150-160 game season out of Drew... however, even based on his prior history, I think a 120-130 game season of his would do quite nicely (and is a reasonable expectation, based on prior performance).

What Depo based his outfield on was Werth, Bradley, and Drew... and while they would probably all miss some games, Ledee and Repko would fill those (temporary) gaps. I think that's a reasonable plan. However, since we've had an extra-large helping of OF injuries, obviously the depth vanished and we ended up playing scrubs for much of the year.

I have no idea whether we'll resign Bradley or not. I will venture the assumption that either the Dodgers will keep him, or find someone who can put up similar numbers. In that case, I think an outfield of Drew, Bradley/clone, and Cruz Jr -- with Werth and Ledee filling in as needed, is a pretty decent one.

(Since I missed it earlier, go Hee Seop!)

2005-09-21 19:55:39
153.   natepurcell
in response to the first paragraph:

yes thats correct, but those points have more to do with their ideas about logic instead of language so it doesnt really apply to my topic.

and your second paragraph: yes i agre. thats why this is confusing me and is stupid and i hate empiricism because its incredibly flawed.

2005-09-21 19:55:44
154.   Steve
Losing your cool in a discussion isn't what I call discussion.

Unless the person doing it happens to agree with you, you worthless hypocrite.

2005-09-21 19:56:32
155.   Jon Weisman
128 - not being insulting like Steve, who is clearly an angry individual--

134 - Yes, I get angry when you take your stupid argument, and call it my stupid argument.


Unsportsmanlike conduct, offense.
Unsportsmanlike conduct, defense.

Replay the down.

2005-09-21 19:59:08
156.   D4P
Regarding their disagreement on where to draw the line: do you know where each side draws the line, or is that something you're supposed to figure out?
2005-09-21 20:03:02
157.   Tommy Naccarato
Jon, I'll take the penalty--quietly, and with that insult, I'll call it a night.
2005-09-21 20:03:13
158.   GoBears
151 inter alia: You guys should probably carry this on by email. But read Lakatos. And ignore Feyerabend - he's just trying to be difficult. Part of the problem with "observations" is that they're no such thing as theory-free empiricism. We use theories to help us to observe (Lakatos's example is Galileo's telescope, which relied on a theory of optics that was by no means accepted. So he didn't really see mountains and craters on the Moon. He only "saw" them insofar as you accepted his theory of optics.)

Once you get past Popper's "Dogmatic falsificationism" as impossible, in that we can't disprove anything any more than we can prove anything, it's a slippery slope to Feyerabend and his ilk who deny that any sort of knowledge is possible. Lakatos is much more practical about it. Sort of like Jon is about Jim Tracy - don't toss out the old theory (manager) until you've found a better one that (who) can do all the things that the old one (guy) did well, and do a better job on stuff the old one (guy) could not do. He calls it "sophisticated methodological falsificationism."

And with that, I retire.

2005-09-21 20:04:13
159.   natepurcell
Regarding their disagreement on where to draw the line: do you know where each side draws the line, or is that something you're supposed to figure out?

well i know the positivists are hardliners and only sensory words can be used. They also have this tricy thing that can transform theoretical sentences into the observable. its called the verifiability theory of meaning, or the correspondance rule.

but yea, i am suppose to figure out where the empiricists draw the line, which i cant because the line is so vague any empiricist can draw his own line and it wouldnt be wrong. for example, carnap said each case is different and you draw the line uniquely to each case.

which IMO, is just another way of saying "our movement is so flawed that we have to keep adding new rules to the point where any idea could be right and cannot be disproved wrong."

2005-09-21 20:06:40
160.   natepurcell
oh, i dont quite understand the verifiability theory of meaning. if someone could explain that to me better than this book can, i can stop asking questions :)
2005-09-21 20:07:55
161.   D4P
We should probably end this conversation, as this board is much more strict about subject matter than the other one. But it sounds to me like you're on the right track.
2005-09-21 20:09:25
162.   Fallout
155. Jon Weisman

I'm surpised by the split decision. In my mind one of them was worse than the other.
But, I'm learning about your personality. :)

2005-09-21 20:09:54
163.   natepurcell
We should probably end this conversation, as this board is much more strict about subject matter than the other one. But it sounds to me like you're on the right track.

jon said this was an open discussion form!!!

but true, we shouldnt turn this into empiricists' thoughts for today.

2005-09-21 20:12:29
164.   Jon Weisman
162 - "In my mind one of them was worse than the other."

Doesn't really matter, since both crossed the line. I've made it clear that the policy here is to turn the other cheek - being insulted is not an excuse for retaliating.

2005-09-21 20:14:23
165.   Steve
Hee Seop Choi hit a home run.
2005-09-21 20:15:52
166.   natepurcell
mark grace:

"since we cant remember the korean kids name from last night, we will just call him koufax because he is left handed, a dodger and struck out a lot of guys"

2005-09-21 20:19:07
167.   Jon Weisman
163 - I'm just wondering where you were on Minor League Thoughts day earlier this week.
2005-09-21 20:21:00
168.   Steve
It appears he had a paper to write.
2005-09-21 20:21:32
169.   natepurcell
I'm just wondering where you were on Minor League Thoughts day earlier this week.

school is a female dog. my professors decided to play a mean trick on me and have 2 midterms and an 8 page philosophy paper due in the same week.

but when i had the chance, i did read the post. great work jon, i fully appreciate it :)

2005-09-21 20:22:09
170.   DaveP
nate, you may be spending a little too much time on school activities and not enough providing us with insights on the minor league pipeline.

please get your priorities straight..

2005-09-21 20:24:17
171.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego Magic Number


Dodgers tragic number (for elimination)


2005-09-21 20:24:47
172.   natepurcell
i know dave. i have not been dividing my time evenly lately. But, in my absence (and FB's absence, where the heck has he been?) hobos is doing a good job with all the minor league tidbits. and others too :)
2005-09-21 20:25:19
173.   Steve
FB has the same problem you have, nate.
2005-09-21 20:27:21
174.   oldbear
Dodgers with 9k's and 0bb's tonite. Choi with 1 HR but 2GIDP.
2005-09-21 20:28:30
175.   Steve
Which is worse, Izturis batting leadoff or Robles batting third?
2005-09-21 20:28:38
176.   natepurcell
Choi with 1 HR but 2GIDP.

choi's hit the ball hard all 3 times though. thats all i could ask.

2005-09-21 20:31:28
177.   Steve
176 -- What can we ask of Jason Phillips?
2005-09-21 20:31:43
178.   oldbear
Ugly game for the Dodgers tonite.

2 by Phillips
2 by Choi
9 K's for Webb
0 walks for the Dodgers.


Phillips is 3-30 in September.

2005-09-21 20:32:04
179.   Bob Timmermann
So if Jason Phillips hits into a DP and no one on Dodger Thoughts complains, did it really happen?
2005-09-21 20:32:11
180.   DaveP
175 - I'm numb to all the weird lineups and in-game decisions at this point in the season.

I soley follow the games now to check out the young guys for next year. Looking forward to Broxton going again tonight.

Can Kuo pitch back to back nights yet or is that risking his arm falling off?

2005-09-21 20:32:51
181.   Bob Timmermann
179 was written as 177 and 178 were being posted.

I'm no longer faced with trying to solve the Phillips koan.

2005-09-21 20:34:32
182.   Steve
181 -- But it was a fairly mild response. Actually, I find Phillips much less aggravating as the backup catcher. Backup catchers are supposed to suck.
2005-09-21 20:34:44
183.   natepurcell
What can we ask of Jason Phillips?

to injure himself so tracy cant use him.

2005-09-21 20:35:34
184.   Bob Timmermann
So you want to see Mike Rose play all the time?
2005-09-21 20:36:04
185.   natepurcell
great change up to counsel. he saw counsel was getting around on his fastball and the bull just pulled the string on him. great job pitching.
2005-09-21 20:36:50
186.   b1ued0dger
182 But back up catchers have to be good defensively.
2005-09-21 20:37:05
187.   Icaros
I don't like to see Counsell making Broxton's fastball look so hittable.
2005-09-21 20:37:27
188.   Steve
Broxton solves the Counsell Conundrum. Now can he get perpetual thorn Royce Clayton?
2005-09-21 20:37:49
189.   natepurcell
broxtons "only" throwing in the low 90s.
2005-09-21 20:38:02
190.   Steve
186 -- a good point, but beggars can't be choosers.
2005-09-21 20:38:23
191.   DaveP
187 - he's not throwing as hard. missing a couple mph on the fastball tonight. got the job done by going to the offspeed stuff, but not overpowering.
2005-09-21 20:39:19
192.   Steve
It came to my attention in the last couple of days that Chad Tracy has much better career numbers than I believed him to have. What are they going to do with him?
2005-09-21 20:41:00
193.   Icaros
192 Sign Tony Clark, Luis Gonzalez, and Shawn Green long term.
2005-09-21 20:41:03
194.   Bob Timmermann
If it's the DBacks, they will like take Chad Tracy and sign somebody 10 years older than him to a 5-year, $35 million contract.
2005-09-21 20:41:35
195.   oldbear
Werth... geez. I broke a smile at that attempt.
2005-09-21 20:41:41
196.   Icaros
Is Werth even trying? Jimeny Christmas...
2005-09-21 20:42:16
197.   Steve
194 -- done and done, apparently

Troy Glaus is blocking too, right? And isn't the Jackson kid a corner?

2005-09-21 20:42:54
198.   Xeifrank
Did everyone see the Texas Rangers pitcher get hit in the head by the Vlad Guerrero line drive? Another half inch to the left and his life would've been threatened. I'm glad he was ok, and kind of amazing to see a ball hit the pitchers head and the shortstop catch the deflection. vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:43:03
199.   oldbear
Webb's mowing the Dodgers down. Resistance is, after careful ponderance, indeed futile.

11 k's for Webb. His game score is gonna be high tonite.

2005-09-21 20:43:59
200.   Bob Timmermann

It seems weird to read:

Texas Rangers pitcher Kameron Loe left the game due to an injured head.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-21 20:44:14
201.   Xeifrank
No more stupid hit and runs JT.
vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:45:17
202.   Steve
_______________ left the game due to an injured head.

Icaros? You have first crack.

2005-09-21 20:45:34
203.   Xeifrank
I think the Dodgers are helping Webb out by swinging at many of his sinkers out of the strike zone. vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:46:30
204.   Bob Timmermann

But isn't that the point of throwing a sinker ball? Or one of them?

Or just pitching in general?

2005-09-21 20:47:06
205.   Steve
204 -- only if your opponent is the A's
2005-09-21 20:47:11
206.   Xeifrank
204. I never said it wasn't. :)
vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:47:20
207.   Marty
Bob, I asked way up the thread, but you probably didn't see it. Did you go to Polka tonight? I remember you did (it's a favorite restauranty of mine) earlier in the year.
2005-09-21 20:47:38
208.   Marty
make that restaurant
2005-09-21 20:48:08
209.   Xeifrank
Ok, Choi can break the game open. I'm sure Buntermaker wants to bunt in this situation but there is no way he would do so with Choi up. vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:48:19
210.   Icaros
Icaros, after seeing one too many Jim Tracy lineups at Dodger Stadium, left the game due to an injured head.
2005-09-21 20:48:22
211.   natepurcell
aybar has been the luckiest dodger all yr in terms of cheap hits.
2005-09-21 20:48:46
212.   D4P
209 Especially with 2 outs, although you never know.
2005-09-21 20:49:31
213.   Bob Timmermann
Indeed I did eat at Polka. I ordered a pork cutlet that was the size of Barry Bonds' head. I ate half of it and will eat the rest for dinner Thursday.

The pork cutlet that is. I don't have half of Barry Bonds' head in my refrigerator.

2005-09-21 20:49:37
214.   Xeifrank
Hope Tracy realizes there are two outs. :)
vr, Xei
2005-09-21 20:50:00
215.   Steve
The more "hits" Aybar gets, the more he concerns me.
2005-09-21 20:50:21
216.   Marty
Love those perogis :)
2005-09-21 20:50:25
217.   Icaros
208 I like restauranty. Sounds pretty hip.
2005-09-21 20:50:46
218.   Steve
Barry Bonds left Bob's refrigerator due to an injured head. :)
2005-09-21 20:50:51
219.   King of the Hobos
211 However true that may be, we can't really complain. Now 4-4, and he's played good defense today (or so Steiner told me). He's making it very hard to evaluate him for next year, is he a .300/.375/.450 leadoff hitter, or Robles-esque with a small sample size?
2005-09-21 20:51:34
220.   Xeifrank
2005-09-21 20:51:37
221.   King of the Hobos
Choi does not come up big =(
2005-09-21 20:52:14
222.   natepurcell
i would take 275/345/425 from aybar next year. roughly, the numbers he put up in AA jax.
2005-09-21 20:52:16
223.   Bob Timmermann
It was the Dodger Thoughts moment. Choi batting with the game on the line.

I want my money back!

2005-09-21 20:52:40
224.   D4P
Is Choi the new Shawn Green? Hee sure seems to ground out to 2nd a lot these days.
2005-09-21 20:52:52
225.   oldbear
Choi's been doing that Shawn Green- ground ball to 2nd base, way too much lately. He has to take those inside pitches, or foul them off.
2005-09-21 20:53:35
226.   Steve
Great minds think alike.
2005-09-21 20:53:38
227.   Marty
The only other Polish restaurant in L.A. that I know of (I'm sure there are others) is Warzsawa in Santa Monica and it's more expensive. Polka is a treasure.
2005-09-21 20:54:10
228.   Bob Timmermann
Who would be on the hook for the loss tonight?
2005-09-21 20:55:22
229.   oldbear
219. Aybar would look like a lot better prospect if his power hadnt went out at Vegas... I was hoping for Jhonny Peralta with a little more Aybar power.
2005-09-21 20:55:38
230.   Bob Timmermann

Marty, those are the only two Polish restaurants in the L.A. area according to my friend. Who is Polish.
And not in the A.J. Pierzynski sense. She's Polish in the Lech Walesa sense.

She doesn't have a mustache like Lech though.

2005-09-21 20:56:07
231.   DaveP
19 yr old Felix Hernandez pitched 7 1/3 innings of hitless ball tonight. He was also clocked at 99mph. That kid is just ridiculous.
2005-09-21 20:56:12
233.   Bob Timmermann
Blalock homer puts Texas up 4-2.
2005-09-21 20:56:34
234.   DaveP
231 - should add he gave up a couple weak hits in the 8th before leaving, but getting the win.
2005-09-21 20:56:40
235.   oldbear
228. Osoria will get the L.
2005-09-21 20:57:08
236.   Steve
Braz has got to get it back together.
2005-09-21 20:57:44
237.   natepurcell
wow, did you guys just see brazobans change up right there@!?!@??

that is the pitch! thats the money pitch! keep throwing it yhency!

2005-09-21 20:58:42
238.   Bob Timmermann
The last four Atlantic hurricane names left over on the list for this year are Stan, Tammy, Vince, and Wilma.
2005-09-21 20:58:45
239.   Icaros
Nice, Ghame.
2005-09-21 20:59:04
240.   DaveP
raise your hand if you knew that Ichiro would outslug Beltre this year..

Ichiro = .441 slugging
Beltre = .415 (with a .298 obp)

2005-09-21 20:59:36
241.   oldbear
Last Dodger game in which our hitters didnt draw at least 1 walk? Tonite. 11k's 0 walks.
2005-09-21 20:59:59
242.   Icaros
238 How come there's never a Hurricane Jason? I want to destroy things, too.
2005-09-21 21:00:59
243.   DaveP
seeing what Broxton and Kuo did last night should light a fire under Braz to work on that changeup in what's left of the season. If he doesn't, he could be learning it at Jacksonville.
2005-09-21 21:01:38
244.   natepurcell
how come we are not gushing over the most imporant part of tonights game: yhency actually showing a very good change up.

he went from 97 to 87 and it was just so pretty with the split finger diving action.

2005-09-21 21:01:56
245.   Marty
Hurricane Jason would hit 5 different locations
2005-09-21 21:03:39
246.   Icaros
Hurricane Jason would hit 5 different locations

All at Dodger Stadium.

2005-09-21 21:03:40
247.   Bob Timmermann
The male J this year was "Jose". In 2007, it will be Jerry. In 2009, it will be Joaquin.

The only chance for a Jason to make the list would be for one of the male J storms to cause significant damage. Then it gets retired and they add a new name.

The Js in 2003 and 2004 were retired: Juan and Jeanne.

Hurricane Bob made his debut in 2001 and was retired.

2005-09-21 21:04:48
248.   Bob Timmermann
It's another Dodger Thoughts moment! A Perez batting with the game on the line!
2005-09-21 21:05:42
249.   Icaros
They seem to be going heavily Hispanic on those names.
2005-09-21 21:06:01
250.   Bob Timmermann
Upon further review, Jason is on the list for cyclones that hit Northern Australia.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-21 21:06:38
251.   Bob Timmermann
The names are supposed to be a mix of English, Spanish, and French names.
2005-09-21 21:07:03
252.   Icaros
Okay, Jose Valverde officially makes the hate list.
2005-09-21 21:07:15
253.   dzzrtRatt
Shawn Green must think the Dodgers are pathetic.
2005-09-21 21:08:10
254.   Icaros
Upon further review, Jason is on the list for cyclones that hit Northern Australia.

Cool, I can make my own Mad Max movie!

2005-09-21 21:08:17
255.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers elimination number


2005-09-21 21:08:35
256.   dzzrtRatt
Hurricane Jason couldn't hit water if it fell out of a boat.
2005-09-21 21:09:51
257.   Icaros
Hurricane Jason couldn't hit water if it fell out of a boat.

That's a perplexing image.

2005-09-21 21:10:59
258.   oldbear
How close was AP's ball to going out? Gameday had it at right over the fence.

Not a sabermetric game to say the least. No walks, 1 extra base hit, 8 singles, 12 k's.

The team has the "we're out of it, playing in a home run condusive ballpark. just swing at everything and let the chips fall where they may" attitude.

2005-09-21 21:11:18
259.   Bob Timmermann
Hurricane Jason would be slow moving so people would have plenty of time to get out of harm's way.

Sadly, it looks like they will have to go to the extra names for the hurricanes this year. After W comes the Greek alphabet. If they make it through the Greek alphabet, then we should all be repenting our sins.

2005-09-21 21:11:39
260.   Bob Timmermann

Probably about 4-5 short of the fence.

2005-09-21 21:12:14
261.   dzzrtRatt
244 That was a heckuva heckuva change-up Yhency was throwing tonight.

Seriously, reading the comments here and last night about the good work done by Dodger rookie pitchers brought cheer to my wizened visage. Acceptance doesn't hurt one bit.

2005-09-21 21:12:51
262.   oldbear
All 12 strikeouts tonite were 'swinging' k's.
2005-09-21 21:13:17
263.   Bob Timmermann
Seriously though, I bet the Houston Astros are glad to be on the road. They won't be back home until the 29th.
2005-09-21 21:13:48
264.   Steve
After I repent my sins, I'm going to be asking for Braz to get a little help.
2005-09-21 21:15:57
265.   Bob Timmermann

I got a stamped piece of mail from Utah today and I was wondering how:
1) Steve found out my address
2) Why he mailed it after he moved

Turned out to be junk mail. I was being invited to a seminar on how women can make money in the real estate market.

Someone had a little trouble with their mailing list I guess.

But in good news, I got a check for $70 from Canada today!

2005-09-21 21:17:55
266.   Steve
265 -- If it had been from me, that wouldn't have changed its status, most likely.
2005-09-21 21:17:57
267.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Torre is thinking of making Al Leiter his new LOOGY.

He really is.

And the Yankees are in first place.

2005-09-21 21:19:07
268.   Fearing Blue
#173: That is correct. Fortunately, my problem is primarily due to the most interesting course I've ever taken. An SVP of the Boston Celtics is teaching a Sports Management class that focuses on quantitative analysis. It has and will continue to be a lot of work, but the guest speaker list includes Bill James, Danny Ainge, Josh Byrnes, and others, so it's worth it.

#219: One good thing about Aybar is that he'll relieve some of the media pressure to sign a mediocre 3B stop-gap (i.e. Joe Randa or Bill Mueller). I don't see either of those two outproducing Aybar / Perez by very much, so the money would better be spent elsewhere.

Jon, thanks for the prospect roundup the other day. I really enjoyed it. I feel good about your homerun target if we can sign Giles or Matsui and we find some way to keep Bradley for another year. Those are obviously both big ifs though.

Steve, sorry I'm not here to get your back. Even with the injury, J.D. Drew has been reasonably priced at $11 million for the value he has contributed (~5 WARP). Projecting a similar production rate for even just 130 games next year makes me very happy. After the season is over, I'll update the free agent analysis I did earlier in the season.

Bob, hi! Hopefully this time around I'll actually speak with Bill James when I get the chance.

Nate, good luck with your paper. The future of our bullpen looks bright for years to come. I'm still not sold on our starting rotation for next year though. I'm holding out hope that one of Billingsley, Miller, and Jackson break through in the AFL.

Now it's time for me to get back to work. Good night all.

2005-09-21 21:24:51
269.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have 84 losses.
The last season they lost 85 was 1999.
The last season they lost more than 85 was 1992 when they lost 99.

Since they have 67 wins, they can't lose more than 95.

1992 remains the only season the L.A. Dodgers lost more than 90 games.
Prior to that, the last 90+ loss season was 1944 when the Dodgers lost 91.

Prior to that year, the Dodgers lost 90+ in 1912. The Dodgers lost a lot of games in that era.

2005-09-21 21:30:30
270.   King of the Hobos
So do we allow Brazoban to go to the winter leagues and see how the change does? If he can figure out to use it effectively and consistently in winterball (there's just not enough time in the rest of the season), then there's another good arm in the pen. I don't see Brazoban, Sanchez, Schmoll, and Osoria on the team next year, anyone of them could get us something good in a trade (there might be some packaging players involved), except maybe Brazoban. I'm almost ready to say screw it, Sanchez will be our 5th starter next year unless he proves otherwise in spring
2005-09-21 21:38:50
271.   King of the Hobos
Young will now become an OF. He's playing OF in the instructional league currently. According to Royster, he's our best hitting hitting prospect. Based on the Royster quote, you wouldn't know the difference between Delwyn and Delmon

"He has the tools to be the best hitter we have because he has something you can't teach -- bat speed" Royster said, "We have some very good hitters in the organization. [Joel] Guzman and [Andy] LaRoche have the power, [Tony] Abreu is a slappy guy who will hit. But Young can be the best, without a doubt, it's not even close."

"He has a chance to do some damage," Royster said. "You can't teach what guys like [Bill] Madlock and [Gary] Sheffield and [Tony] Gwynn have. When Gwynn's bat went through the zone, it just looked different than the rest of us."

"Young would have to get better than he is at second base, which is why trying him in the outfield as an outfielder makes so much sense," said Royster. "Abreu already is an extremely good second baseman that can hit and run."

"That's why you never really know until they get here," he said. "[Aybar]'s gone back to the basic fundamentals. He was always a real good third baseman. People say he doesn't have the power for the position, but he'll drive in runs. He's a real RBI guy, a good two-strike hitter. He's laying off bad pitches up here. It's fun to watch."

Also, a Tracy quote:

"It would be nice to use him for an inning, then see how he'd bounce back for a hitter or two so you could visualize it during the season rather than the Grapefruit League," said Tracy, envisioning Kuo for the situational left-hander role. "We have to be mindful of the history with his arm."

2005-09-21 21:46:42
272.   oldbear
Can anyone explain the Jason Repko, Paul Loduca, Cesar Izturis phenomenon that propels them into 'good young ball player.. you'd be an idiot to get rid of them' status?


2005-09-21 21:46:57
273.   Steve
Sanchez will be our 5th starter next year unless he proves otherwise in spring

That is not a new idea.

2005-09-21 21:54:02
274.   Steve
And if I'm not clear, a very good idea.
2005-09-21 22:00:24
275.   Bob Timmermann
The Texas bullpen makes Steve cry.
2005-09-21 22:01:45
276.   Icaros
The Texas bullpen makes the Baby Jesus cry.
2005-09-21 22:03:50
277.   King of the Hobos
Why is CJ Wilson being trusted in close games? Everytime I see the Rangers in the later innings of a close game, Wilson is always pitching. That's almost as bad as if we allowed Erickson to be our main set up man
2005-09-21 22:04:34
278.   Bob Timmermann
Esteban Yan in line for the win!
2005-09-21 22:06:48
279.   Steve
CJ Wilson is God's punishment for breaking the Dodger Thoughts Code of Conduct.

My Name Is Earl.

2005-09-21 22:16:38
280.   Bob Timmermann
But a double by Steve Finley is more than just karmic payback. That's like a plague out of Exodus.
2005-09-21 22:19:47
281.   Steve
280 -- Orlando Cabrera has 3 RBIs. I wish Jon had just given me 100 standards.
2005-09-21 22:23:35
282.   Icaros
How many prophecies and plagues must one blog endure? We're nice people. We worked hard in school. We just want to make imaginary friends and enjoy baseball together.

This has to stop. Seriously.

2005-09-21 22:25:46
283.   Bob Timmermann
Paul Lo Duca just wasn't the heart and soul of the Dodgers. He has the powers of Lord Voldemort.
2005-09-21 22:26:31
284.   Bob Timmermann
Rod Barajas has hit 20 home runs this year.

Rod Barajas!

2005-09-21 22:28:49
285.   Steve
And he just walked to start the ninth.
2005-09-21 22:32:06
286.   DaveP
ESPN is reporting that Lou Piniella will accept a buyout from Tampa Bay at the end of the season.
2005-09-21 22:34:09
287.   Bob Timmermann
Why did the Rangers even try a bunt against Rodriguez?

You know how many sacrifices they have this year?


2005-09-21 22:34:59
288.   dzzrtRatt
272 Can anyone explain the Jason Repko, Paul Loduca, Cesar Izturis phenomenon that propels them into 'good young ball player.. you'd be an idiot to get rid of them' status?

Whether you're Paul DePodesta, Steve Jobs, John Kerry or Mick Jagger, you should always ignore the press. If they like you, it's just the set-up for when they turn on you. And when they turn on you, "we're just doing our job."

The media's adoration of LoDuca is probably based on the fact that he was buried in the organization and not tagged as a real prospect until he came up and won the job. He was also an Advil after the Piazza headache.

Repko fits into the "came out of nowhere" media paradigm. And, as you may know, he's scrappy.

Izturis doesn't belong on this list. He is a seriously talented shortstop who never hit for spit until 2004, when he vaulted from .220 to .290. Any hits from him were considered a bonus. He's there for his fielding, and until Omar Vizquel arrived, he was the best fielding SS in the NL. I submit we really don't know whether his rampaging offense early in the 2005 season was a fluke or the real deal, because he was probably playing hurt long before he started to show up on the DL.

2005-09-21 22:35:00
289.   Bob Timmermann
By the way, the record for fewest sacrifices in a full season is 11 by the 2003 Blue Jays.
2005-09-21 22:36:14
290.   Bob Timmermann
That was Frankie's 8th wild pitch on the season.
2005-09-21 22:37:07
291.   Bob Timmermann
Light up the Halo!
2005-09-21 22:38:48
292.   Steve
Well, that should learn me.
2005-09-21 22:39:44
293.   dzzrtRatt
What's a worse tagline? TV's "Light up the Halo," or the radio guy's "Just another Halo victory." I like the Angels, but jeez.
2005-09-21 22:44:03
294.   Bob Timmermann
The Pirates say "Raise the Jolly Roger!" after a home win.

They don't say it very often.

2005-09-21 22:45:29
295.   Steve
Is there a correlation between teams that represent themselves as Smallball teams and horrible announcers? The Rockies, Angels, and White Sox all have garbage announcers. What about Toronto? We, of course, have Steve Lyons, which would be evidence that there is simply a correlation between baseball itself and horrible announcers.
2005-09-21 22:47:39
296.   Bob Timmermann
Your Blue Jays broadcast team:

2005-09-21 22:50:41
297.   Steve
Tom Candiotti!
2005-09-21 22:52:14
298.   King of the Hobos
Rotoworl has an interesting theory on Choi. He's started on Sept 11, Sept 16, and now Sept 21, so maybe Tracy thinks he's a starting pitcher. Or maybe my idea in the following link is true (post 249), Penny requested Choi as a personal 1B much like he'd request a personal catcher

'249. King of the Hobos
Some pitchers request a personal catcher, maybe Penny could request a personal first baseman. He needs to be comfortable throwing pick off pitches'

2005-09-21 23:18:10
299.   molokai
I don't understand the comment about LaDuca. Why is he even being talked about in the same breath as the others. It seems obvious to me why he was considered a good young player.
Year VorpNlCatchers
2001 2nd
2002 3rd
2003 6th
2004 6th
2005 4th

After his 1st two years in the league he was the 2nd or 3rd best catcher in the NL. Doesn't that constitute a "good young player". Just because the media jumped on Depo for trading LaDuca does not mean LaDuca did not give the Dodgers excellent value from 2001-2004. I find it very doubtfull that Navarro will ever post a VORP of 59 in his career like LaDuca did in 2001. Defending Depo does not mean the players he's traded need to be bagged on.

2005-09-21 23:19:40
300.   molokai
I'll take Jason Bay over anyone on the Dodgers. Amazing how crappy a team we have but we still find it so easy to belittle the rest of the league.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-21 23:42:59
301.   Eric L

LoDuca is/was a good catcher, but he played his first full season at the age of 29.

I think that disqualifies him from the "young" part, but doesn't take away from him being a good player.

2005-09-21 23:51:38
302.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not belittling the Pirates as a team. I'm belittling the phrase "Raise the Jolly Roger!"
2005-09-22 07:36:09
303.   Bob Timmermann
National League teams the Dodgers have won the season series against:
Cincinnati 4-3
Milwaukee 5-1
San Diego 10-5 (with 3 left)

The Dodgers lead the Pirates 2-1 with 4 left between the two.

2005-09-22 08:24:32
304.   regfairfield
299 If LoDuca posts a VORP of 59 again, I will eat several hats.
2005-09-22 08:28:47
305.   blue22
304 - Considering that LoDuca hasn't come remotely close to any of his offensive numbers of 2001 (.320 BA, 25! homers, 90 RBIs, .374/.543/.917), I'd say that's a safe bet.
2005-09-22 08:52:07
306.   regfairfield
305 That was the idea, I really don't enjoy the taste of cloth.
2005-09-22 08:58:06
307.   blue22
306 - I just hadn't realized what a great year he had then. It wasn't just a good year for a stumpy catcher no one had ever heard of - it was a magnificent year, period.

How it took him 3 more years to match the home run total of that year is a mystery.

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