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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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The Rightly Rated Farm System Begins to Deliver
2005-09-26 14:23
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

It's like being called a bad parent when you weren't even pregnant yet.

One of the phonier damnations of the Dodger farm system accuses the team of failing to produce a bonafide star from the minor leagues, despite the Dodger system being highly rated for years. The flaw in the argument is that until recently, these so-called high rankings for the Dodger farm system did not exist.

Both Baseball Weekly and Baseball America had low rankings for the Dodger system as this decade began. As recently as 2002, the Dodgers were considered incompetent at the draft, with their No. 1 pick, two-way player James Loney, an apparent anachronism - a tools player from high school drafted ahead of proven, specialized college talent. That the dim Dodgers were putting Loney at first base instead of on the mound befuddled analysts even further.

The Dodger farm system did not begin to regain favor in the public eye until later that summer when Loney, who was only 18, surprised everyone by justifying the Dodgers' faith in him with a spectacular season at the plate in Rookie ball. Then in 2003, the Dodgers delivered what perhaps became their highest-rated draft in many years, highlighted by pitchers Chad Billingsley and Chuck Tiffany. Still, skepticism remained over the Dodgers' reliance on high school talent, so that even just two years ago, not everyone was sold on the team's minor league roster.

It really wasn't until 2004, when Joel Guzman came to life, that perception of the Dodger farm system began to soar. Again, this makes sense, because the infusion of talent in the farm system is both recent and young. Willy Aybar signed a huge bonus in 2000, but was only 17 at the time. Guzman was signed from the Dominican Republic in 2001 - but he was only 16 at the time.

So those who have taken the failure for the Dodger farm system to produce a star in 2005 as a sign that it has been overrated have lost perspective on time. The struggles of most of the 2005 rookies accurately reflect the state of the Dodger minor league talent prior to 2002. With the possible exception of Chin-Feng Chen, none of the rookie hitters for the major league Dodgers this season ever really impressed scouts after they were drafted. Other than Jonathan Broxton (still only 21), Hong-Chih Kuo (in between injuries) and the strange case of Edwin Jackson, the same holds true for the 2005 rookie pitchers. Jason Repko, a 1999 first-round draft choice, epitomized the until-recently feeling about the Dodger minor leaguers. He was considered, like most Dodger draft choices, a flop. The fact that he has barely scratched out a major-league OPS above .600 in 2005 is no disappointment - it's as much or more than anyone thought he would do until 2004.

With Aybar and Dioner Navarro (a minor leaguer acquired by trade from the Yankees via Arizona last offseason) emerging in the past two months, the first set of better-regarded position players in years have taken superb first steps. At the same time, Aybar and Navarro are not even the hottest prospects in the Dodger system at their positions. If the 22-year-old Aybar and the 21-year-old Navarro, who have combined for an on-base percentage of nearly .400 in about 250 plate appearances, can continue to develop the talent they have shown, imagine what the future might hold for the Andy LaRoches and Russ Martins, for Guzman, and so on. The fact that these futures might not arrive until 2007 is really, truly beside the point.

It might turn out that Aybar and Navarro will have sophomore slumps and put their careers in perception limbo like Jackson. It might turn out that we never know who's going to be great until they get to Los Angeles.

So let me just leave things where I began. The Dodger farm system has not promised more than it has delivered. It has not been highly rated for years. The rise of the farm system, both in perception and reality, is a recent development, and the prospects are arriving right on time.

Comments (398)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-26 15:21:55
1.   Bob Timmermann
Sounds like someone's been arguing with Rob McMillin and Matt Welch.
2005-09-26 15:24:21
2.   Jon Weisman
I know it might sound that way, but this isn't a response to them.
2005-09-26 15:33:04
3.   Bob Timmermann
I think that since the Dodgers have had such a long dry spell with the minors, people are naturally suspicious.

But it wasn't that long ago when the Dodgers had a long run of ROYs: Karros, Piazza, Mondesi, Nomo, and Hollandsworth.

2005-09-26 15:33:18
4.   Warren
Google Alerts sent this to me earlier today. It's a pretty good read for those who are pro-Tracy.

2005-09-26 15:35:03
5.   King of the Hobos
Phoenix Desert Dogs start playing next Tuesday (This years Dodgers AFL team). Hopefully the Dodgers prospects impress, and more importantly, don't get injured. Games will be on Gameday, which is almost more tempting than watching the playoffs =)

Vegas will have Gameday next year as well, or at least should. They hoped to get Gameday to AAA teams, but I haven't heard if it's official

2005-09-26 15:36:34
6.   Jon Weisman
4 My question - and this is sincere, not sarcastic - is this. If everything else were the same except Jim Tracy were not the manager of this team, how many games would the Dodgers have won this season?
2005-09-26 15:38:11
7.   Eric Enders
We also had a milder run of guys who became successful for other teams, like Ted Lilly, Henry Rodriguez, John Wetteland, and Paul Konerko.
2005-09-26 15:39:59
8.   Adam M
8 - would "guys who became successful for other teams" include Pedro "Tommy Said I Was Too Short" Martinez?
2005-09-26 15:42:57
9.   Adam M
6 - One thing I know is that another manager might have pulled the plug on Izturis as the leadoff man much earlier. He showed far less reluctance to move Shawn Green around in the lineup, and it's arguable Tracy's moving Green around so much messed with Green psychologically and contributed to Green's departure. One will notice this argument rarely gets raised by local media these days.
2005-09-26 15:43:59
10.   King of the Hobos
4 Even for the anti-Tracy, that wasn't a bad article, quote wise anyways

"We had a great group of guys at the start and at the finish," Werth said. "There's definitely a difference in atmosphere from last year to this. I don't really think we have a bad clubhouse, I just think some things have happened over the course of the season — injuries, close losses, things like that."

I guess that's good news, as is...

Kent, who signed a two-year contract last winter, has always been known as a loner, but Werth defended him, saying the public perception concerning the All-Star second baseman "is not close," and that he loved having Kent as a teammate.

Has Werth become the new PR guy?

And to take Tracy out of context

"I think that's something you talk about when the season's over," he said. "That's the way I've done it for four years. I'm not changing."

Putting the quote back into context, is this just Tracy's ambiguous style, or is there a hidden message? Maybe it's the optimism over analyzing the quote, but there seems to be some hostility in the quote

2005-09-26 15:46:05
11.   Steve
Don Adams died just before Jim Bowden could sign him to a three-year deal to play shortstop
2005-09-26 15:52:41
12.   Jon Weisman
9 - "it's arguable Tracy's moving Green around so much messed with Green psychologically and contributed to Green's departure. One will notice this argument rarely gets raised by local media these days."

It's not a good argument to raise.

Green's slump preceded Tracy moving him around. In fact, the world was almost as impatient for Tracy to move Green out of the cleanup spot as they were for Tracy to move Izturis out of the leadoff spot. More impatient about Green, if you consider that Izturis batted leadoff in 2004.

Tracy gave Green as much rope as any manager would dare give someone who was producing as poorly as Green in the cleanup spot.

Green's departure came for one reason - he was not playing like a $16 million player. It wasn't Tracy's fault.

It is true that Tracy gave Izturis more patience in his batting slot.

2005-09-26 15:53:56
13.   Steve
Green hit cleanup for twenty seven years.
2005-09-26 16:03:25
14.   Bob Timmermann
Your Penultimate Random Dodger Game Callback

September 26, 1946

The Dodgers might have won the battle this day at Ebbets Field, defeating the Philadelphia Phillies 8-2, but they also might have lost the war as star left fielder Pete Reiser broke his left leg. The win moved the Dodgers to within one half game of the first place Cardinals at 95-57.

Reiser's injury happened in the first inning. Second baseman Eddie Stanky led off with a walk. Third baseman Augie Galan flied out and Reiser forced Stanky at second. Reiser, who led the NL in 1946 in stolen bases, took a big lead and Philadelphia pitcher Charley Schanz threw back to first. Reiser slid back into first feet first and jammed his leg against the bag and snapped his left fibula.

Reiser was carried off the field and taken to the hospital. Dick Whitman ran for Reiser and took second on a passed ball by Philadelphia catcher Rollie Hemsley. Right fielder Dixie Walker singled home Whitman with the first run of the game.

The Dodgers scored four times in the fourth. First baseman Eddie Stevens led off with a double. Center fielder Carl Furillo tried to sacrifice, but beat the bunt out for a hit. Shortstop Pee Wee Reese beat out an infield single to short to score Stevens. Catcher Bruce Edwards laid down a bunt and he beat it out also. Pitcher Kirby Higbe popped out. Stanky then bounced a ball into right field to score Furillo. Oscar Judd came into relieve for Philadelphia and walked Galan to force in a run. Joe Medwick, a midseason pickup in his second tour of duty in Brooklyn, drove in the final run with a groundout.

In the sixth inning, Galan singled and Medwick followed with his second home run of the season. The Dodgers added their final run in the seventh on a squeeze bunt from Edwards to score Furillo.

Meanwhile, Higbe went the distance to pick up his 17th win of the season. He gave up seven hits and struck out six.

The Dodgers were off on September 27, but they moved into a tie for first when the Cardinals lost at home to the Cubs, 7-2. On September 28, both teams won with the Dodgers beating the Braves and the Cardinals beating the Cubs. But on the last day of the regular season, both teams lost. Mort Cooper of the Braves shut out the Dodgers 4-0 while the Cubs, behind Johnny Schmitz, beat the Cardinals 8-3.

So for the first time since its founding in 1876, the National League season ended in a tie and a best of three playoff was scheduled. The Dodgers won the coin flip and opted to start the playoff in St. Louis and play the last two games, if necessary, in Brooklyn.

Just over 26,000 came to Sportsman's Park to see the first playoff game. Cardinal lefty Howie Pollet, battling an injury to his side, went the distance as St. Louis won 4-2. Joe Garagiola drove in the insurance run for the Cardinals in the seventh. Ralph Branca took the loss.

After a day off, the teams returned to Brooklyn. Joe Hatten got the call to save the Dodgers season, but the Cardinals battered him and a succession of five relievers for eight runs, three of them in the ninth. Murray Dickson got the win and Harry Brecheen came in to relieve in the ninth and struck out two with the bases loaded to send the Cardinals to the World Series, where they would defeat the Boston Red Sox in seven games.

Reiser's loss was something the Dodgers were used to as other injuries had limited him to just 122 games in 1946. Stanky had the highest OBP on the team at .436. He walked 137 times although he hit no home runs. Reiser led the team with 11 homers. The team hit just 55 for the season. Walker led the team in batting at .319 and drove in 116 runs with just nine home runs. The Dodgers did score 701 runs, second most in the league.

The pitching staff was headed up by Higbe who was 17-8 with a 3.03 ERA. Hatten was 14-11 with 2.84 ERA. The staff ERA was 3.05, which was also second best in the NL.

In a sense though, the Dodgers lost the battle in 1946 to the Cardinals (who had won four of the last five NL pennants), but they were going to win the war. Jackie Robinson had a tremendous year playing in the minor leagues in Montreal. Branch Rickey was going to make some changes. And from 1947 through 1966, the Dodgers would win ten pennants and four World Series, while the Cardinals would win just once.

Thanks to the New York Times, Baseball-Reference, and Retrosheet.

2005-09-26 16:04:40
15.   D4P
Even if Green was "playing like a $16 million player," there's a good chance he would have been traded.
2005-09-26 16:13:32
16.   Jon Weisman
15 - I doubt it. They would have kept him and probably not signed Drew.
2005-09-26 16:16:47
17.   D4P
But the $6 million savings from Green was instrumental in signing Lowe, right? At least, that's what we were told.
2005-09-26 16:18:59
18.   natepurcell
can someone direct me to the article where welch bashes the dodger farm system on primer?
2005-09-26 16:20:32
19.   Jon Weisman
17 - not sure Lowe is relevant to this discussion of Green. If Green were a 1.000 OPS guy and expected to remain so for another year, DePo would not have traded him unless another team absolutely overwhelmed him with an offer. Lowe would have been a secondary consideration.

Green was traded because in DePo's mind, he was overvalued.

2005-09-26 16:21:28
20.   Warren
6 "My question - and this is sincere, not sarcastic - is this. If everything else were the same except Jim Tracy were not the manager of this team, how many games would the Dodgers have won this season?"

Probably a similar number in all honesty.

Another manager might have played Choi and Perez a little more, had less patience for Izturis in the leadoff spot, punted on Phillips earlier, and stuck with Robles less. But in my opinion those are all relatively minor differences. A game here or there.

How many wins did Tracy squeeze out of last year's team that another manager might not have?

I'm not pro or anti Jim Tracy at this point. I think after last year he deserves a shot with a healthy roster next year before we reach any conclusions. That being said I wouldn't be heart broken if he decided to go elsewhere.

I read your column a few weeks back about not calling for Tracy to get the axe unless you are prepared to name a replacement that would do better. If we stay on that train of thought who is there? I can't think of anyone this side of Bobby Cox and Tony La Russa who might have got a few more wins out of this club. And I think that even with those two it's still at sub-.500 team.

2005-09-26 16:22:29
21.   Adam M
12 - I think we're actually making similar points here. As manager, Tracy had to move Green down in the lineup, but the moves (both up and down) definitely seemed to mess with Green's head and make the situation worse--and yet the local media peanut gallery seems to have forgotten this.

On the other hand, Tracy should have dropped Izturis a lot earlier this. Cesar Izturis 2005 was clearly a #7/#8 hitter, not a leadoff guy.

2005-09-26 16:23:02
22.   GoBears
19 Right. And if Green were still here, Drew wouldn't be, and Drew's money could have gone to Lowe. And Green would have had his hand broken on an HBP, and the media would screaming that he should have been traded to save money.
2005-09-26 16:24:26
23.   Icaros
With Green and Lowe, no Drew: $24 million.

With Drew and Lowe, plus $10 million to trade Green: $29 million.

2005-09-26 16:26:26
24.   Jon Weisman
Green's EQAs since 2000

2000 - .289
2001 - .323
2002 - .321
2003 - .285
2004 - .280
2005 - .286

Green has not been significantly better this year than he was last year - more significantly, he has remained far from his 2001-2002 level.

Green is better than the healthy Dodger outfielders but worse than the injured Dodger outfielders (both Drew and Bradley).

First base? Choi is at .260, Saenz is at .285. Green is a little better than the combo. Not much, though.

2005-09-26 16:27:27
25.   D4P
I bring up Lowe because in most of the discussions I've had about the Green trade, the Lowe signing has been treated as a byproduct of the Green trade, and folks have argued that the Green trade made the Lowe signing possible. They've essentially argued that, in exchange for Green, the Dodgers got not only the 4 minor leaguers from AZ, but were also thus able to sign Lowe.

I never really bought that argument because I didn't see why the Dodgers couldn't have signed Lowed anyway, even without the $6 million savings from the Green trade.

2005-09-26 16:28:37
26.   Adam M
20 - Pythagoras might have something to say about this, but if you look at the Pythagorean standings right now, they'd tell you Ozzie Guillen and Bob Melvin were the best managers in baseball and Willie Randolph is the worst (Tracy is, as might be expected, squarely in the middle with a -1 rating). I have a hard time buying what Pythagoras is selling right now.
2005-09-26 16:29:58
27.   Icaros
I never really bought that argument because I didn't see why the Dodgers couldn't have signed Lowed anyway, even without the $6 million savings from the Green trade.

They could have, but then probably couldn't have signed Drew.

2005-09-26 16:30:08
28.   DougS
21 I never got that impression. From what I've read about Green's shoulder surgery (especially Will Carroll's article), I think what was going on with his labrum was more important than what was going on in his head.
2005-09-26 16:30:41
29.   GoBears
21 This sort of stuff always baffles me. Why would moving around in the lineup matter? It might hurt a player's pride a bit to know that the idea is to get him fewer ABs, but why don't we believe that every hitter tries to do well every time up? I can see that maybe a free-swinger would be frustrated batting behind a base-stealing threat, where he's asked to take pitches or some such. But if we know that batting order doesn't matter to team success (the same 8 players will score roughly the same number of runs no matter what order they're in), then why should place in said order affect a player's success?

I see, e.g., that Choi was much better batting 2nd, but to me that's random variation that would not survive bigger sample sizes.

I think one of the drawbacks of baseball's laconic pace is that we have too much time to think about climbing inside players' heads, and assessing motivation, AND trying to explain everything causally. One of the great advances of sabermetrics is that we have much better causal theories than before. But another, perhaps even greater, advance is to show just how much luck (random variation) there is in baseball, and that while the game has become more and more explainable (and thus predictable) in the long run, it's still utterly unpredictable game to game and pitch to pitch.

2005-09-26 16:31:59
30.   Jon Weisman
Hmm ... wondering about my communication skills.

21 - "the moves (both up and down) definitely seemed to mess with Green's head and make the situation worse--and yet the local media peanut gallery seems to have forgotten this. "

No, I completely disagree with this. Green only seemed to improve once he dropped down below Beltre. If you check his splits from 2004, the numbers back it up.

Batting fourth: .790 OPS
Batting fifth: .863 OPS
Batting sixth: .826 OPS

20 - "I read your column a few weeks back about not calling for Tracy to get the axe unless you are prepared to name a replacement that would do better. "

That's not what I said. What I said was that if you nominate a Tracy replacement, have a good reason for it. Don't pick a name just because it sounds nice.

2005-09-26 16:33:29
31.   Icaros
If you figure in Dreifort's full salary, since no one knows yet what insurance discount came about, Drew, Green, and Lowe on the team would have put the Dodgers above the $100 million threshold.
2005-09-26 16:35:03
32.   Jon Weisman
25 - That may be the case. If so, it would only support the notion that Green was traded because DePo found him overvalued. If Green were worth keeping, DePo would have kept him.

As it was, if Drew and Bradley had not been hurt (predictably or not), DePo would have been completely vindicated in trading Green. As it is, I think DePo might still be vindicated.

2005-09-26 16:36:12
33.   Marty
Dreifort. If there had been a Dreifort bobble-head it would have blown it's neck out.
2005-09-26 16:39:11
34.   D4P
I agree that Depo thought Green was overvalued, but I still think he might have been traded even if that wasn't the case. I'm not convinced Depo was comfortable with a $16 million salary, even had the player been playing well enough to earn it (which Green clearly wasn't). I don't think Depo wants to build a team around one or two very highly paid players; I think he'd rather spread the talent (and money) around more evenly.
2005-09-26 16:39:29
35.   Steve
29 should be primary text, and a test given on it at the end of the year.
2005-09-26 16:45:16
36.   Jon Weisman
34 - Certainly possible, but I see no evidence that DePo would not pay $16 million to a real superstar, especially for just one season, as it would have been with Green.

I think it's just as easy to assume that DePo wants the good $316,000 players so that he can spend big money on a superstar if he wants to. That way, even with a couple of megamillionaires on the team, the team wouldn't be completely dependent on them.

2005-09-26 16:46:08
37.   Icaros
34 Since the $16 million was only for one more year, it probably wouldn't have bothered DePodesta as much if Green had been putting up Manny Ramirez numbers.

He probably wouldn't have resigned him at that price, though. Imagine what we could have gotten in trade for Green if he had been any good.

2005-09-26 16:49:19
38.   D4P
Well, it should be interesting to see what happens this offseason. I put the probability of maintaining payroll at $100 million (and signing "megamillionaires") at less than 0.5, but ya never know. I'm looking forward to seeing what Depo has in store, particularly since I'm not attached to any of the players on the current squad (with the exception of HSC).
2005-09-26 16:49:44
39.   Bob Timmermann
Final from Boston

Blue Jays-Red Sox


2005-09-26 16:50:33
40.   natepurcell
greens salary was only for one more year. it wasnt as if it was a long term albatross on the team.
2005-09-26 16:50:34
41.   das411
Re: the search for a new field manager, did anyone else see this in the Philadelphia Inquirer this weekend?

The Indians might have the AL manager of the year in 37-year-old Eric Wedge, who finished his playing career a few years ago as a backup catcher for the Phillies' triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre club. The Indians have another rising young managerial star in their system in Torey Lovullo. He, too, spent time in the Phillies system, playing at Scranton in 1999 and finishing the season in the majors. Lovullo managed Akron to the Eastern League title last week and could move up to triple-A Buffalo next year...

Just another name to throw out there. Now quick! Somebody ask Timmerman who has the longest hitting streak of the century going into tonight. Gotta make sure he is now a safe distance away from Rex Hudler's stash...

2005-09-26 16:51:30
42.   D4P
OT: Arrested Development in less than 10 minutes.
2005-09-26 16:51:59
43.   natepurcell
Well, it should be interesting to see what happens this offseason. I put the probability of maintaining payroll at $100 million (and signing "megamillionaires") at less than 0.5, but ya never know

well of course, considering there are not any superstar players available in FA this offseason

2005-09-26 16:53:38
44.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 White Sox over Detroit in the 3rd.

It's raining in New York and Philly as well.

2005-09-26 16:53:55
45.   D4P
That has a lot to do with it, although (in theory) he could trade for megamillionaires as well.
2005-09-26 16:57:53
46.   Adam M
30 - My communication skills probably need the work, especially since you're the one who gets paid to communicate! I should have said that I was only referring the psychological situation with Green. From a baseball standpoint, moving him was unarguably the right thing to do, but it did seem to sour Green and may have increased his willingness to leave the Dodgers. Which lends grist, deserved or not, to the "character" and "class" arguments, whose merit I dispute. Amazing how a guy can play with a bum shoulder for half a year, supposedly in the interests in the team, and yet what really hurts the man most is getting dropped in the batting order.
2005-09-26 16:58:53
47.   Bob Timmermann
Longest hitting streak of the 21st Century would be Luis Castillo, 35 games in 2002.
2005-09-26 16:58:54
48.   Icaros
38 Personally, I'm hoping that payroll doesn't get to $100 million next season. Pretty much all of the available free agents are lousy, and I'd hate to sign mediocrity for the sake of appealing to narrow-minded fans and analysts who think that a team that isn't wasting money is a team that isn't trying to win.

If the Dodgers get healthy next season (Drew), play better players (Choi, no Phillips) and see continued growth from youngsters like Navarro and Aybar, I think they'll be contenders.

It'd be nice to pick up more starting pitching, but I don't want Burnett, Washburn, Millwood, or Weaver, and they're the best on the market. Maybe some creative trading would work out, but I'd stay away from most of the free-agent market this offseason.

2005-09-26 17:01:56
49.   blue22
48 - I think its likely that the payroll goes down next year, barring some major trade (Bobby Abreu?, Adam Dunn?).

I also don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, for the reasons you stated.

2005-09-26 17:05:40
50.   das411
47 -Ouch! Then where did I see that Rollins has the longest since Vlad Guerrero in 1999?

And does anyone know why McKeon is benching Miguel Cabrera? Sounds like the Marlins are counting themselves out of it already.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-26 17:05:52
51.   Icaros
Certainly I should have added Gagne to players who need to be healthy next season, and I'd add Broxton and Kuo to the list of developing young players.
2005-09-26 17:06:08
52.   Steve
I'd sign Millwood depending on the price.
2005-09-26 17:06:47
53.   Bob Timmermann
I should have said it's raining in Baltimore, where New York is playing. It could be raining in New York though. But not as many people would care since both the Yankees and Mets are on the road.
2005-09-26 17:08:03
54.   Bob Timmermann
Guerrero had a 31-game streak in 1999.

Maybe people just don't like Luis Castillo.

2005-09-26 17:08:12
55.   Icaros
52 He's had such a good year ERA-wise, I'm afraid he'll be getting Lowe money. I'd take him on this year's price no question.
2005-09-26 17:09:51
56.   bigcpa
48 How can you lump Burnett and Millwood with Washburn and Weaver? Both would be a nice upgrade on Weaver. It's not my money.
2005-09-26 17:10:32
57.   Bob Timmermann
Brandon Inge has hit a 2-run homer to tie it up in Detroit against the Pale Hose 2-2.
2005-09-26 17:11:31
58.   bigcpa
Burnett has given up 35 homers... in his last 556 innings.
2005-09-26 17:12:13
59.   Adam M
I personally wouldn't want to spend $16 on Shawn Green 2005, just to have the warm fuzzies of paying him for the length of his contract.

48 - That's an interesting question. If we look at Jon's recent projection of needed HR totals for various lineup slots, could a healthy Dodger team as currently constituted be reasonably expected to hit those? My gut says no, but my gut lacks lateral thinking skills. Working on a strictly back of the envelope basis:

1 - 5 HR Perez
2 - 15 HR Choi (I know, I know)
3 - 30 HR Drew (fingers & toes crossed)
4 - 30 HR Bradley
5 - 25 HR Kent
6 - 20 HR Cruz (?)/Werth
7 - 15 HR Navarro/Phillips (? gack)
8 - 5 HR Robles
PH - 5 HR Ledee (?), Repko, etc.

Out of those, #3-4-5 seems like the biggest gambles, which is not reassuring. Then again, it seems reasonable to expect them to come close, and also to get more than 5 HR from the #1 and #8 slots.

2005-09-26 17:12:41
60.   Icaros
56 I don't want to go anywhere near Burnett's injury history, and Millwood has been pretty inconsistent throughout his career.
2005-09-26 17:14:12
61.   Bob Timmermann
Players on the Dodgers who have hit more home runs this year than Brandon Inge:
Jeff Kent
Jose Cruz
Hee-Seop Choi
J.D. Drew
Olmedo Saenz

Padres who have hit more home runs than Brandon Inge:
Ryan Klesko
Joe Randa
Brian Giles
Khalil Greene

2005-09-26 17:15:10
62.   Nagman
Caught part of what I think is called "The Big Show" on 710 with Mason and Ireland, and heard a humorous exchange.

One of them says something like "I just want to say to all the Oakland fans, Moneyball fails. In fact it fails AGAIN, just like it's failed every season.", at which point the other guy says, "Well, umm, you can't say that its Moneyball that's failing, they do what they do with half the payroll of the Angels."

2005-09-26 17:16:46
63.   Icaros
59 Next year could be a lot better, or as bad as this year, but the only way the Dodgers can revamp the team immediately is if they trade the farm. I'd rather wait until the farm is ready to play for LA.
2005-09-26 17:19:08
64.   Steve
Burnett carries the stench of Dreifort-ism.
2005-09-26 17:19:12
65.   Bob Timmermann
I'm betting that the logical person in that conversation was Mason and the illogical one was Ireland.
2005-09-26 17:23:07
66.   bigcpa
Did you know?

Dodger 3b's this year out OPS'd the Cardinals .723 to .713.

2005-09-26 17:23:14
67.   Bob Timmermann
The White Sox are back ahead 3-2.

I noticed yesterday that the White Sox are last in the majors in LOB. I think the total was 972, which is a very small number and may break the franchise low for a full season which was a little over 1000.

I've also noticed that the White Sox are 26th in the majors in OBP and 5th in homers.

The record low in the majors for a full season is by the 1957 A's who were last in the AL in OBP and first in home runs.

2005-09-26 17:26:08
68.   Adam M
62 - Just like it failed for the Red Sox last year!
2005-09-26 17:26:09
69.   HomeDePo
59 - at this point you have to consider aybar the opening day starter or atleast somebody who really pushes antonio perez during spring training.
2005-09-26 17:27:32
70.   Adam M
69 - Thanks! Nothing against Robles, but Aybar/Perez sounds much better to me.

Note to self: buy a bigger enevelope...

2005-09-26 17:27:38
71.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have left 1096 runners on base this year, which is around 7.7/game.
2005-09-26 17:33:37
72.   natepurcell
prospect news:

dodgers had 2 prospects in the top 20 list of the SAL.

#1- elbert
#7- dewitt

shame that blake johnson and denker did not make it. travesty i tell you! travesty.

2005-09-26 17:34:19
73.   Adam M
71 - But how do they compare on the Olneys?
2005-09-26 17:34:43
74.   natepurcell
to add.

i am surprised that elbert is the number 1 overall prospect in the sally league. i guess we have to keep a rotation spot open for him in 2009 or so.

2005-09-26 17:36:06
75.   Bob Timmermann
The Olneys were retired last year by and Elias. They've gone the way of the GWRBI.

I believe the only Olney champ ever officially crowned was Adam Everett.

Who actually does stuff like hit home runs now.

2005-09-26 17:38:56
76.   clopez
About 60 comments too late, but...
I think Tracy "single-handedly" cost this team about 10 games. That still leaves the club with a poor record, but one that is at least excusable [perhaps playoff bound too, incidentally] considering the injuries.

The point that bears consideration is that Tracy killed morale to such a degree that we're left wondering how many games he really cost the team. The lost rubber match against the Cards in L.A., for example, no doubt had a depressing effect on the team. A win would have had them 3 back of the Pads on Aug 1st with the satisfaction of having won a series against a formidable foe who has owned them of late. Instead they never saw better than 4 back.

After games like this players must know the script is already written. I don't mean to digress with the obvious here [Tracy is bad blah blah blah], I'm just stating/probing how much of an intangible, non-empirical impact managerial ineptitude can have.

2005-09-26 17:42:35
77.   dzzrtRatt
Going back aways to 3, that run of ROY's in the 90s led to bad things like arrogance and complacency on the part of Dodger management. There was much less than meets the eye to it. Piazza was a star, and Mondesi could have been, although I'm sure his "makeup" problems were apparent to the organization before it was apparent to the rest of us. Nomo was a ROY in name only; he had already established himself in Japan. Eric Karros is the single most overrated player in Dodger history. By Hollandsworth, you couldn't even say "Dodger Rookie of the Year" with a straight face.

But Fred Claire bragged about this accomplishment til the cows came home, hoping no one would notice the team had stopped winning, needed to import expensive problems like Strawberry, and was generally fraying and losing it.

2005-09-26 17:43:24
78.   Bob Timmermann

Brandon goes deep again and it's 3-3 in Detroit.

2005-09-26 17:54:15
79.   dzzrtRatt
76 Morale can't be used against Tracy. He apparently is well-liked by the players.

I think suggesting he's cost us 10 games--i.e. the division championship--is a huge huge stretch. Also, it's not a fair analysis to put all the focus on the debit side of the ledger. Maybe JT has cost us 5 games thru making obviously (not in retrospect) bad decisions. But that's balanced out by, say 2 or 3 games where his managing contributed to a win.

2005-09-26 17:56:15
80.   Steve
The whole problem is building the "morale" of players like Jason Repko, who can't actually play.
2005-09-26 17:58:28
81.   FirstMohican
I'm a little late here, but man is it a relief to read material like this after being on the road for the last few hours listening to 570 and 710. Thanks.
2005-09-26 18:02:48
82.   Steve
The newly chemistry-less (or, if you prefer, playoff-less, since they appear to be the same thing) Florida Marlins can not stop Cristian Guzman, they can only hope to contain him.
2005-09-26 18:02:59
83.   FirstMohican
79 - I always got the impression that the players liked Tracy too, based on post-game comments. Though, a friend of mine who talked to a Dodger half-way through the season definitely didn't get that impression. While that's just one Dodger, that fact makes it harder to say that the players generally like Jim Tracy.
2005-09-26 18:03:48
84.   LetsGoDodgers
I don't have a manager in mind, but I'd rather see a new manager for the Dodgers next year; someone who agrees with DePo's philosophies and will strategize accordingly. Call it Smallball, call it Moneyball, call it whatever you like, just get the GM and the manager on the same page!!!

Then again, all the injuries pretty much guarantee a DePo/Tracy tandem in 2006. Yuck.

2005-09-26 18:05:38
85.   FirstMohican
82 - I'm sure Lo Duca is turning the teams collective frown upside-down as we speak...
2005-09-26 18:06:31
86.   GoBears
66 Dodger 3b's this year out OPS'd the Cardinals .723 to .713.

And credit for that goes to...Hee Seop Choi, for ending Rolen's season early.

2005-09-26 18:09:13
87.   das411
86 - Didn't the Great Wall of Korea do something similar to Mark Prior a couple of years ago?

Maybe you SHOULD trade him to Tampa Bay; if Delmon Young is going to be their Darryl Strawberry, maybe Hee can be Kevin Mitchell.

2005-09-26 18:11:12
88.   Steve
85 -- Ken Rosenthal did not indicate so. But since August 16th, if I've counted right, LoDuca is 15 for 87, so it is just more polite to talk about "chemistry"
2005-09-26 18:12:06
89.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
62 I have a friend who's an A's fan, and he was spouting the same "wisdom" about Moneyball not working, especially in the playoffs. I pointed out that having one of the lowest payrolls in the game is the failed approach, not Moneyball. As Boston proved so well.
2005-09-26 18:13:36
90.   coachjpark
Is Robles our #3 hitter of the future??? Something about that depresses me....
2005-09-26 18:17:08
91.   sanchez101
77. I always the thought the Dodger Farm system was productive in the early 90's. Apart from the ROY's (Piazza, Karros, Nomo, Mondesi, Hollandsworth), Jose Offerman Pedro Martinez along with Pedro Astacio, Ismael Valdez. Also, useable players such as Jose Vizcaino and Tom Goodwin came up at the time. Given that not every one is going to be a Piazza-Pedro level star, I would think that the farm system from 1990-1994 produced more than its share of baseball talent.
2005-09-26 18:18:47
92.   DaveP
my checklist for success regarding tonight's game:

1. Edwin goes at least 5 innings and no more than 3 earned runs
2. Aybar starts at 3B and is on base at least once
3. Navarro has a solid game behind the plate and collects at least one hit
4. Kuo pitches a scoreless inning (none of this LOOGY stuff for Kuo) and his elbow is still attached upon returning to the dugout
5. Choi with an extra base hit

Four out of Five and I'll consider it a good night. Notice there is no mention of the score. I don't care about the W/L at this point.

2005-09-26 18:20:23
93.   clopez
Jim Tracy is definitely well-liked by most of his players (as has been documented ad nauseam), but I doubt his moves have garnered a lot of trust. I'd bet a lot of players think his routine is pretty dicey at this point:
"The bunting has failed us over and over again, but I like that skip is sending Repko out to bunt right now..."

Conventional wisdom states that managers cost there squad 4-6 games a year. I say 10 becasue I have witnessed at least seven and have read accounts of other games I missed. I don't think JT belongs in the median of 4-6. No way. And believe me, I've taken into account the games he's won us, or the credit side-- like yesterday, you could argue that by pinch-hitting Phillips he won the game. I've given him his due and still come up with 10.

You're right though, the issue of morale is a very shaky topic, like "chemistry," which I generally prefer to steer clear from. I just think there's something to be said about shaping the mental make-up of a team. In my opinion JT did this to an above average, detrimental degree this year.

2005-09-26 18:21:54
94.   sanchez101
92. I think that pretty much sums up what i look for when watching the dodgers recently, who gets the win and the loss is pretty irrelevent to me. Its a pretty liberating feeling and can make watching the game more fun, when the team is going to loose anyway
2005-09-26 18:23:10
95.   LetsGoDodgers
I'd also like to add that I'm not thrilled about this offseason's free agents. Millwood is up-and-down for his career, Burnett is the second coming of Dreifort due to his absurdly high pitch counts, Washburn is highly overrated, and that leaves Weaver.

I'd roll the dice on imports like Paul Byrd (for bottom of the rotation) and Matt Lawton (in the leadoff role for his OBP). If we shoot the moon for a pitcher, it better be a Matt Morris-caliber starter.

2005-09-26 18:26:06
96.   natepurcell
only thing tonight is for edwin to get his fb velocity up.

if its still sitting at 90-91 im going to be worried/dissapointed.

2005-09-26 18:27:07
97.   Bob Timmermann
Robles is the #3 hitter tonight


2005-09-26 18:27:20
98.   Steve
Cristian Guzman doubles in two more. Florida held to only two "chemistrys" by Hector Carrasco.
2005-09-26 18:27:52
99.   DaveP
-96 If he's working at 90-91 again, I'd guess he lasts no more than 3 or 4 innings. He'll get shelled.
2005-09-26 18:27:56
100.   GoBears
76 I too think that a claim that JT cost the team 10 wins is ludicrous. Ludicrous, because how could we ever know? One of the benefits of blaming the manager for making what seems to be the wrong move is that we can assume that the right move, had it been made, would have worked out. But really, even the better player is still more likely to fail than to succeed. Really, Tracy's head-scratchers merely add insult to injury most of the time. The team is not only losing, but looking dumb along the way. Occasionally, they also cost the team the game. But then again, his bonehead subbing of Phillips for Choi yesterday, while dumb a priori, worked out, and, in better times, would be evidence that he has a magic touch with substitutions.

We can use RC/27 or VORP or some such to estimate how many more runs the team would have scored had Choi received 200 more ABs, Phillips 200 fewer, etc., and Pythagoras (channelled by Bill James) would tell us that how many more wins the team would have had (other things equal) but those are merely estimates. Luck might still have burned us. We might not have won many more close games, and might just have made some of the blowout losses into close losses. Look at the ChiSox and Twins. For the last few years, the Twins have been very lucky (outstripping their Pythaogrean W-L record) and the ChiSox very unlucky. This year, it's reversed (or was last time I checked).

And that's leaving aside the question of how many of JT's bonehead moves would have been made by any other manager as well. So the statement about the Tracy Factor being 10 games is ludicrous because it's unknowable. That doesn't mean it's wrong, however.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-26 18:28:16
101.   Bob Timmermann
J Wilson

for the Bucs.

2005-09-26 18:28:24
102.   D4P
With Mr. Clutch poised to pinch hit in case anyone gets on base in front of Choi.
2005-09-26 18:29:24
103.   DaveP
glad to see Aybar, Choi and Navarro are in the lineup. Could have been a quick blow to my checklist.
2005-09-26 18:31:10
104.   Uncle Miltie
On Steiner (from the other thread):

I guess I'm the only one who can't stand Steiner. It sounds like he spits when he talks and when he's paired up with Rick Monday, they like to talk about random things that have nothing to do with game ("Yea, that steak dinner we had last night was fabulous") He has no idea where the ball is when it comes off the bat:
"And there's a flyball to right field!...and it's...caught (in medium right field)
Transcript from Steiner calling Navarro's walkoff HR:
...And here's the 3-2...flyball right center field and's way back there...and it issssss...GONE! A Home Run! Dioner Navarro with his first major league home run, it is a walkoff HR, and the Dodgers win it 7-6, the Dodgers are storming out of the 3rd base dugout, they'll waive(?) him at home plate, and now they're gonna BEAT him to death!

Steiner over described the play, rarely pausing, and giving too much information. He gets far too excited and is unable to control his emotions. It's a shame that Ross Porter was fired AND that he was replaced with an inferior announcer. One of my favorite announcers is Dan Shulman (who works for ESPN).

2005-09-26 18:31:12
105.   Bob Timmermann
Tigers with a runner on 2nd and 1 out with 1 out in the 8th.

Trammell had Craig Monroe, one of his best hitters, sacrifice Pudge Rodriguez from first to second. Rodriguez hurt himself though and is out for a pinch runner in the person of the famous Nook Logan.

2005-09-26 18:34:37
106.   GoBears
Conventional wisdom states that managers cost there squad 4-6 games a year.

Huh? The CW is that the average managerial effect is negative? Since one team wins and the other loses each game, doesn't the average effect have to be zero? Or did you mean to say that managerial decisions affect the outcome of 4-6 games per year?

Look, I want JT gone too. I think he's shown this year that he's not the right guy for a DePo-constructed team. But while I also have been sure that at least 10 losses might have gone the other way with better decisions, I have no idea how many wins would have become losses with different decisions. It's a huge leap of logic to argue that most wins were despite the manager. Again, the counterfactual (what would have happened if...) is unknowable. So, with present technology, we can't quantify the W-L effect of the manager, and have to rely on subjective impressions instead.

Mine is that Tracy should be fired if he won't get religion. But I'm not going to pretend to have the numbers to back that up.

2005-09-26 18:34:38
107.   Bob Timmermann
Steve Finley is starting in center field tonight for the Angels.

"Fins" is due for a hot streak, I've been told.

But wasn't it just the game he homered and doubled against Tampa Bay?

2005-09-26 18:36:10
108.   Bob Timmermann
100 106

Better be careful there GoBears. You're being dangerously even-handed in this department.

You obviously didn't go to Jim Tracy Effigy Night.

2005-09-26 18:37:15
109.   D4P
You are not alone. I can't stand Steiner either. Among other things, he makes EVERY ball that is hit in the air sound like a HR. And yes, he gets WAY too excited. He's too much of a homer for my taste. He also asks really bad questions in the player interviews, and butchers a lot of name pronunciations.
2005-09-26 18:37:27
110.   natepurcell
i should be studying for my accounting midterm that is tomorrow but watching jackson pitch takes priority over that.

please edwin, dont shelled.

2005-09-26 18:37:53
111.   GoBears
I could learn to like Steiner. Yes, he's terrible at judging long fly balls - he needs to do what Vin admits he does, which is to look at the OFer, and trust that the OFer's reaction is accurate. And sometimes it seems as though Steiner wishes he were still doing Yankee games. But I think he could grow into this job. I like his style and approach, even if he has some bad habits. I like the even-handedness and the casual, conversational style. I certainly like Monday better as the analyst than as the PBP guy. But I wonder how Steiner could do alone, without the tempation to chat with anyone.
2005-09-26 18:44:15
112.   D4P
Purcey - For the love of Choi, go study. There'll be plenty of opportunities to watch Jackonville, er, Jackson, pitch in the future. But you only get one chance to take this midterm.
2005-09-26 18:46:50
113.   Jon Weisman
If he can retire the leadoff batter, Edwin Jackson's ERA will drop 0.16.

If he gives up a homer to the leadoff batter, his ERA will go up 0.49.

2005-09-26 18:47:04
114.   DaveP
and on the other shoulder: "nate, don't listen to him. Jackson might pitch a shutout and you could miss it".

just kidding. do what we all did in school. study while watching the game. and if nothing else, just remember this:

Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity

2005-09-26 18:49:10
115.   Bob Timmermann
You can put it on the board!


Granderson homers and the Tigers win 4-3 over the White Sox.

2005-09-26 18:49:53
116.   D4P
Meanwhile, back on the OTHER shoulder, "Yeah, but even if he pitches a shutout, it's against the Pirates. That barely counts."
2005-09-26 18:52:39
117.   Uncle Miltie
The best thing to do is study a little before the game, then watch the game and if Jackson has a short outing, turn it off and go back to studying.

Choi/Aybar/Navarro= Tracy + McCourt's Beverly Hills mansion?

2005-09-26 18:54:56
118.   Vishal
108 i would fly back to LA to go to Jim Tracy Effigy Night. talk about a party! :)
2005-09-26 18:56:47
119.   Bob Timmermann
Frank McCourt doesn't live in Beverly Hills according to the real estate records I've seen. He lives in Los Angeles.

But his house(s) cost him a lot.

2005-09-26 19:00:50
120.   Uncle Miltie
119- you're right, he lives in Holmby Hills, near the Playboy mansion.
2005-09-26 19:04:46
121.   GoBears
Huh - right near my office. He and I should carpool to games.
2005-09-26 19:04:54
122.   das411
54 Hey Bob, if they get 4 more innings in at CBP, Rollins has now tied Guerrero at 31 games.

116 I missed Game 6 of the 2003 World Series to go see Rocky Horror Picture Show with a bunch of weirdos from high school. Not the movie even, some local theater company. Needless to say I was pretty mad at Andy Pettitte when I got home.

But that doesn't beat my little sister, who left in the 3rd inning of the Phanatic's Birthday game in 2003. You guys might remember that one, a Sunday afternoon, Kevin Millwood started against the Giants...

2005-09-26 19:09:01
123.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure any game that starts this week is going to be played until its conclusion unless a Class 5 Hurricane hits and what are the odds of three of those in one year?
2005-09-26 19:11:42
124.   DaveP
just saw a stat that Jason Kendell has thrown out only 15% of baserunners this year. Worst in the majors.

At least he hits for power. No?? 0 HRs in over 500 at bats.

So he must be an OBP machine. Hmmm. Not so much. .347 obp this year.

Why was he at the top of the lineup in Oakland this year?

2005-09-26 19:13:35
125.   clopez
I did in fact mean to say that the outcome of 4-6 games are "affected" by a manager as opposed to "lost" [and that bit of CW is just something I heard in passing on the radio]. So in reevaluating my nebulous assertion with that clarification in mind, there is admittedly no logic in arriving at 10. But there never really was any to begin with. Of course all of this is completely unknowable. No one has, or has even pretended to have conclusive numbers. It's merely subjective guessing with no base. So I'm still sticking with the ludicrous notion of 10. My eyes don't lie. :)
2005-09-26 19:13:43
126.   Steve
Every night is Jim Tracy Bobblehead Night.
2005-09-26 19:19:16
127.   Uncle Miltie
Just another walk for Aybar...
2005-09-26 19:20:36
128.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 Padres after 2 batters.
2005-09-26 19:22:46
129.   Uncle Miltie
Watch Kent swing at the first pitch
2005-09-26 19:22:53
130.   Steve
And Choi...
2005-09-26 19:25:23
131.   Uncle Miltie
Horrible job by Kent. At least hit it out of the infield
2005-09-26 19:27:34
132.   natepurcell
this accounting test shouldnt be too hard. i mean, its just the basics so far, journal entrys, trial balance, debit/credit, etc

but yea, assets= liabilities + stockholders equity is all you need to know. if you know what goes in each part, you can use logic to figure out the rest.

2005-09-26 19:28:18
133.   Adam M
100 - If I read the latest Pythagorean standings correctly, the White Sox and D-Backs have the highest margin over their expected wins (Dodgers are -1). One could either believe Ozzie Guillen and Bob Melvin are the best managers going, or else there's been an eclipse in Bizarroworld. My money's on B.

Speaking of Ozzie Guillen, a baseball manager finally figured out how to get the attention of a football writer:
"I have never heard a manager or coach use the word "I'' as much as Ozzie Guillen. Who could enjoy playing for this egomaniac?"--Peter King

Granted, King is a man who thinks weekly updates on his latte consumption are newsworthy...

2005-09-26 19:29:26
134.   Uncle Miltie
Worst inning of the year.
2005-09-26 19:30:10
135.   Vishal
man, bases loaded and nobody out and we can't do anything. tsk, tsk.
2005-09-26 19:30:12
136.   natepurcell
that bottom half of the first was a pure joy to watch. something exciting needs to happen in this game
2005-09-26 19:31:26
137.   Bob Timmermann
Wouldn't a worse inning be one where the Dodgers gave up a bunch of runs and then followed it up with a bases loaded, no outs and no runs?

At least Jackson had a good first inning.

2005-09-26 19:33:24
138.   Bob Timmermann
The Twins got shut out by KC and got only 3 hits.

Colorado leads the Braves 6-5 in the 8th and could make it hard for:
1) the Braves to clinch the East
2) the Dodgers to clinch not finishing in last

2005-09-26 19:34:21
139.   Uncle Miltie
137- I meant worst offensive inning because most teams are able to score a run with bases loaded, nobody out.
2005-09-26 19:36:17
140.   natepurcell
throw your change up edwin.
2005-09-26 19:38:30
141.   Vishal
i dunno, what's worse: bases loaded, nobody outs in the first inning, or say, 3 straight 3-pitch strikeouts in the late innings against say, a russ ortiz or kirk rueter?
2005-09-26 19:39:17
142.   D4P
Regarding the inability to score with bases loaded, no outs:

I just looked it up, and it turns out that Kent, Cruz, and Navarro all happen to struggle against Wells' arm angle.

2005-09-26 19:39:19
143.   Uncle Miltie
Dodger Stadium saves Jackson 2 runs.
2005-09-26 19:40:46
144.   Uncle Miltie
Horrible play by Kent and Cruz.
2005-09-26 19:40:47
145.   Vishal
2005-09-26 19:43:41
146.   Vishal
i like this guy's name. furmaniak. fur-MANIAC. it must be awesome to have that word in your name.
2005-09-26 19:44:21
147.   DaveP
Jackson is at 35 pitches already. Going to be a long night for the bullpen. I suspect he won't meet either piece of criteria #1 in my checklist (5 innings and no more than 3 runs).
2005-09-26 19:44:36
148.   Uncle Miltie
146- he must not be a member of PETA
2005-09-26 19:52:29
149.   MikeB
Whoever replaces Tracy has to be one or more of the following:

A) a recognizable "name" to the local media
B) have a Dodger legacy
C) willing and able to follow the DePo plan
D) can handle the media spotlight without melting

If Tracy leaves (fired or on his own volition) the leading candidates to replace him IMHO could be:

Kevin Kennedy
Jerry Royster
Glenn Hoffman

Kennedy is a name, a Dodger legacy, and can certainly handle the media

Royster is the Dodger AAA manager, and based on recent TV interviews, can certainly handle the media - and he knows the younger players

Hoffman is a loyal soldier, had the job briefly once before, and would probably accept the job again - even if it meant doing it DePo's way -- all the way.

I don't think DePo wants Dusty or Lou or Jim Leyland or some of the other old codgers who manage old "tyme" baseball.

He'd want someone the press won't nail to a cross when he's named the manager because he's not a "Dodger".
He'd want someone who is intelligent enough to understand his (DePo's) roster concepts.
He'd want someone who can stand the heat when the local media sharks are on the attack.

So let Tracy walk. There are options out there and they ain't that bad. It's all about being on the same page with your boss, the GM. And that won't happen with the current arrangement.

2005-09-26 19:56:19
150.   DaveP
nate - I'm assuming you're not too excited about Jackson so far tonight. He's basically sitting at 90-91mph with an occasionally cranks it up a couple mph. Seems like he's playing with fire and just a matter of time before he gets lit up.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-26 19:58:21
151.   Bob Timmermann
Colorado beats Atlanta 6-5 with Fuentes striking out Brian Jordan to end the game with a runner on third.

So, Atlanta's magic number remains at 2. If the Phillies win, they cut Atlanta's lead to four games, which would still be pretty hard to make up. Phillies lead 3-1.

The Brewers have rallied to go ahead of Cincinnati 12-9. A win would put them at .500, which would be a big deal in Wisconsin.

2005-09-26 19:59:01
152.   Bob Timmermann
2-run homer for Fins!

Halos led the White Elephants 4-0.

2005-09-26 19:59:02
153.   Uncle Miltie
Navarro did a poor job of blocking that pitch. Phillips would have smothered it.
2005-09-26 19:59:42
154.   natepurcell
hes tipping his pitches.

his arm action is a tad slower when he tries to throw his change up and when he tries to throw his slider he is going over the top more to get more spin on it

2005-09-26 20:06:50
155.   Vishal
hah! not a cheap hit that time for aybar :)

come on hee seop!

2005-09-26 20:07:31
156.   D4P
What? No pinch-hitter?
2005-09-26 20:08:04
157.   Uncle Miltie
XBH for Choi!
2005-09-26 20:08:50
158.   Uncle Miltie
156- Phillips will come in as a defensive replacement after the inning is over
2005-09-26 20:09:01
159.   Bob Timmermann
What are the chances of the Dodgers getting 8 more doubles in the remaining 6 games and 6 innings?
2005-09-26 20:09:03
160.   Uncle Miltie
Productive out by Robles
2005-09-26 20:11:04
161.   Vishal
1. only 2 more innings to go
2. check!
3. eh, so-so so far. he can still get a hit.
4. not time yet.
5. check!
2005-09-26 20:11:36
162.   Steve
What is, what was, and what could have been. Oh well.
2005-09-26 20:12:26
163.   D4P
The statisticians need to start keeping track of those critical "intentional grounders to the right side to advance a runner."
2005-09-26 20:12:58
164.   Louis in SF
149, I would love to see Ron Washington, who has both an A's and Dodger pedegree. I heard Washington interviewed and he wants to manage. Would not mind seeing Royster especially since he knows the young kids. Something tells me that Kennedy would not do it, and I think many on this site would hate his tactics.
2005-09-26 20:14:37
165.   Bob Timmermann
Randy Winn really isn't this good is he? He's 2 for 2 with a walk against Peavy so far.
2005-09-26 20:16:16
166.   D4P
I'm wondering the same thing about Aybar.
2005-09-26 20:18:20
167.   werthgagne31
I have a question for everybody, and please reply, i'd really like your opinions.

Who has more trade value, antonio perez or robles?

Who has more trade value houlton or jackson?

Rate the trade value of osoria, schmoll, kuo, meaning something like osoria has the most trade value then schmoll then kuo?

2005-09-26 20:18:34
168.   Vishal
no editorial comment from vinny on the possibility that people might find it hard to root for bonds :)
2005-09-26 20:19:50
169.   Bob Timmermann
Kuiper thinks that Bonds is really sore and moving around poorly and may come out after this AB.
2005-09-26 20:23:30
170.   Bob Timmermann
Bonds grounds out 4-3, but looks to be going back out to LF.
2005-09-26 20:25:49
171.   Vishal
167 perez. jackson.

schmoll, kuo, osoria, i guess.

2005-09-26 20:29:14
172.   natepurcell
accounting is stupid. i never want to be an accountant. its tedious work that if i ever had to do on a consistent basis, i would pull my hair out and be bald. and thats saying a lot because i love my hair.
2005-09-26 20:30:05
173.   DaveP
here comes the squeeze bunt. I can sense it. trust me.
2005-09-26 20:30:16
174.   DaveP
or not :)
2005-09-26 20:30:23
175.   werthgagne31
Thank for your opinion.

And thanks to anyone else who replies.

2005-09-26 20:31:25
176.   HomeDePo
171 - if i was a GM i would think kuo has more upside. kind of high-risk high-reward
2005-09-26 20:31:51
177.   D4P
I used to want to be an accountant until I took an accounting class in high school and realized that if I had to do such tedious work on a consistent basis, I would pull my hair out.
2005-09-26 20:33:18
178.   werthgagne31
Hey nate, are you studying accounting in high school (i don't know your age, sorry) or are you studying it in college?

i'm asking cause my major in college is accounting, i have a year and a half left.

2005-09-26 20:34:07
179.   natepurcell
oh lookie, willy with an r-b-aybar...

snickers at stupid joke

2005-09-26 20:35:42
180.   HomeDePo
willy wit da wheels
2005-09-26 20:35:54
181.   natepurcell
its only acct 200. so just the basic one. its a prereq for business majors.

i dont think i could ever have accounting as my major. i now fully appreciate the work of accountants.

2005-09-26 20:36:12
182.   Vishal
176 yeah, but his injury history probably takes the shine off somewhat. and schmoll's minor league #s are pretty good from what i understand, too
2005-09-26 20:39:05
183.   werthgagne31
Oh o.k. your going for a business degree, cool.

I love accounting, but i hate all the rest of the classes that have nothing to do with accounting that are required for the degree.

2005-09-26 20:40:16
184.   natepurcell
what exactly do you love about accounting?
2005-09-26 20:41:06
185.   Uncle Miltie
I'm a business major and I don't think I have to take accounting. I took it in high school and it wasn't a terrible class.
2005-09-26 20:43:14
186.   HomeDePo
wouldnt it be sweet to be the dodgers GM in a couple years? (like 10)
2005-09-26 20:44:06
187.   HomeDePo
i know there would be a ton of pressure but it would be so cool
2005-09-26 20:44:25
188.   natepurcell
this is something i dont get.

last year, BA rated jackson as having the best fastball in our system.

but jacksons fb has been sitting between 90-92.

how can an avg 91mph fastball be the best in our system?

2005-09-26 20:44:30
189.   King of the Hobos
That throw wasn't very good, but Bay had it easy. Shows how much Towers liked Giles, giving up both Bay and Perez. The Padres could be better now if they didn't make that trade...
2005-09-26 20:45:42
190.   natepurcell
wouldnt it be sweet to be the dodgers GM in a couple years?

id rather be the geek in the org that follows the prospects.

2005-09-26 20:46:04
191.   HomeDePo
189 - they sold too much future... dumb move by kevtow
2005-09-26 20:46:43
192.   werthgagne31
I've allways been good at math, so everything clicks when it comes to math stuff.
I like payroll, cost accounting for manufacturing businesses, and even some income tax stuff, but i wouldn't want to be a certified public accountant for doing people's taxes, cause it has alot of dealing with the public, i'd rather have a out of the spotlight job where i just deal with a boss, no dealing with the public.
2005-09-26 20:47:18
193.   HomeDePo
190 - yea less pressure
2005-09-26 20:48:49
194.   natepurcell
to add tp 190, although that is basically what i do now, it would be way cooler if i got paid doing it.
2005-09-26 20:51:39
195.   werthgagne31
Well I only got 1 person to answer my trade value questions.
And even tho I only got 1 person to answer my previous question, I'm gonna ask another question:
Rate the trade value of all these guys:
Izturis, repko, delwyn young, phillips, antonio perez, jackson, schmoll, osoria

Something like
1 jackson
2 izturis
3 antonio perez
And so on.

2005-09-26 20:51:40
196.   Bob Timmermann
Debit to the left
Credit to the rigth
Stand up
Sit down
Fight fight fight!
2005-09-26 20:52:08
197.   Bob Timmermann
And always be sure to credit in the rigthhand column!
2005-09-26 20:52:27
198.   Louis in SF
Listening to the Giant game on the radio, the pain in Jon Miller's voice is palpable. He is so much of a hommer when he does the Giant broadcast...Bob the Giants wanted Randy Winn for a long time, and I have to say he has been pretty impressive-3-3 now. I saw him play against the Giants when he was with Tampa Bay and felt he was more of a National League guy.
2005-09-26 20:52:30
199.   natepurcell
anyone here watch niptuck? new episode tomorrow night. we should start niptuck thoughts. there is always drama to discussed with that show.
2005-09-26 20:54:16
200.   werthgagne31
LOL, that was good.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-26 20:54:44
201.   natepurcell
bob, you do realize know, that jingle is going to be in my head the whole time im taking my midterm tomorrow.

might as well not show up at all.

2005-09-26 20:55:03
202.   HomeDePo
195 - i had this thought. who has the worst short stop situation in the league? washington! trade izzy to washington! they would love him! jim bowden loves thos players
2005-09-26 20:55:05
203.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants like those local guys I guess. That must be their only reason for holding on to Tyler Walker.
2005-09-26 20:56:02
204.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, I really found my accounting joke to be one of my least inspired offerings.

Go figure.

2005-09-26 20:56:11
205.   HomeDePo
202 - remember where u heard it first
2005-09-26 20:58:07
206.   Bob Timmermann
I've been told that I'm not allowed to make fun of Jim Bowden because the Nationals had a better record than the Dodgers this year.
2005-09-26 20:58:44
207.   HomeDePo
1. izzy (to jim bowden)
2. perez
3. phillips!
4. young
5. schmoll
6. osoria
7. jackson
8. repko
2005-09-26 20:58:50
208.   HomeDePo
1. izzy (to jim bowden)
2. perez
3. phillips!
4. young
5. schmoll
6. osoria
7. jackson
8. repko
2005-09-26 20:59:26
209.   Vishal

i'm fairly certain the izturis-to-washington idea has been brought up here before.

2005-09-26 21:00:43
210.   HomeDePo
206 - that was half fun half serious... hed bite
2005-09-26 21:01:08
211.   HomeDePo
209 - oh well
2005-09-26 21:01:15
212.   Uncle Miltie
1. Repko
2. Izturis
3. Phillips
4. Schmoll
5. Osoria
6. Jackson
7. Delwyn Young

(not numbered)Antonio Perez
That's how Tracy would rank them

2005-09-26 21:01:34
213.   dzzrtRatt
Niptuck? The value of an accounting degree? Minds are wandering...


1. Delwyn Young
2. Edwin Jackson
3. Osoria
4. Izturis
5. Antonio Perez
6. Steve Schmoll
7. Jason Repko

This is the art of being a GM. The glittering future always has more trade value than the workaday present. But you don't want to let go of the wrong guy. In the 90s, the Dodgers let go of the wrong guy too many times. The Braves seem to rarely let go of the wrong guy.

Izturis would get you a lot assuming he returns from injury and picks up his 2004 form. A sterling defender at short who hits about .290 is a good thing to have. There are better hitters who play short, but not many better fielders at the position, and that's an asset valued higher in baseball than here. Ask the Yankee pitching staff if they'd give up a little of Derek Jeter's hitting and heart & soul in return for better throws to first.

2005-09-26 21:01:57
214.   HomeDePo
man i would love to lay a hand on those lineups planned out till 2009 by DePo
2005-09-26 21:02:22
215.   dzzrtRatt
In the West Coast, Bob Dylan special is on now on PBS. Bye-bye Vinny...
2005-09-26 21:02:47
216.   werthgagne31
Wow i would have thought the pitchers i listed would be towards the top of the list.
2005-09-26 21:03:15
217.   Bob Timmermann
Nope, I was put in my place in the earlier thread:
Only had time for the first fifty today - just wanna jump in and say I really enjoyed the "baseball as process" posts.
As for the contentious Mister Choi, assertions that all he needs are a manager who trusts him and sufficient at-bats against whomever are beginning to get a little old (though I agree that this was the year to opt for him, and really test him once and for all).
Noticed Bobby Bowden getting trashed again, here and there. More evidence of a lack of understanding re: humble pie rules. The Nats
were in it with about twenty games to go, in a much tougher division, and a GM position with much less wiggle room than Paulie had, and parallel crippling injuries.
This round goes to the Man-Who Doesn't-Get-It
over the patron saint of New Dogma. One of the many beauties of real-world ball....
(think of the Iraq of Paul Wolfowitz and others at Defense vs. real-world Iraq).
2005-09-26 21:03:32
218.   HomeDePo
213 - id give up all of jeters team player-ness for ARod at short (hes much better)
2005-09-26 21:04:45
219.   HomeDePo
211- LOL i thought u were crazy 4 a sec
2005-09-26 21:05:02
220.   natepurcell
why do i always think the worst whenever tracy comes out to the mound unexpectedly?
2005-09-26 21:05:07
221.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets have tied the Phillies in the 8th at 5-5.
2005-09-26 21:05:51
222.   MikeB
164 - Louis in SF - Ron Washington is an interesting thought. But, I don't think he's got enough Dodger blue in his background as the others I named previously. A Dodger pedigree is going to be an important consideration if DePo does not sign up Dusty or Lou or Jim L.

Kevin Kennedy
Ron Washington
Jerry Royster
Glenn Hoffman

I still believe Kennedy is a strong possibility. Not sure what "tactics" you are referring to - the Canseco pitching appearance? He's got big-time media savvy, and was known as a players' manager. Both are big pluses in these times. I believe he would be willing to work within DePo's scheme. He doesn't sound as reactionary or close-minded as some other ex-player/manager commentators (insert Joe Morgan's name here). He may not be a favorite choice of the stat clan, but he might be the right pick for this particular situation.

2005-09-26 21:06:07
223.   Bob Timmermann
Halos 4, White Elephants 3 now in the 8th.
2005-09-26 21:07:12
224.   trainwreck
Yeah I watch Nip/Tuck. Just started watching it last year.
2005-09-26 21:08:42
225.   Jon Weisman
That play by Choi almost put him on the bench until 2009.
2005-09-26 21:10:49
226.   Bob Timmermann
In their last 2 games, the Padres have 5 hits.
2005-09-26 21:10:55
227.   natepurcell
Orel could be a canidate.

strong ties to dodgers, respected figure, seems willing to new ideas.

2005-09-26 21:11:15
228.   Bob Timmermann
I was browsing around, what did Choi do?
2005-09-26 21:12:17
229.   Jon Weisman
This pitcher for the Pirates spells his name like someone who gave up trying to spell Grudzielanek.
2005-09-26 21:13:52
230.   werthgagne31
you forgot to rate phillips on the list, where would you rank him?
2005-09-26 21:14:09
231.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the name is German (Gorzelanny).
2005-09-26 21:14:19
232.   Jon Weisman
Runner on first base. Grounder to Choi. He looks at second base, thinks about it, then decides to jog to first base. Meanwhile, the batter is racing up the line and Choi isn't even aware. Batter is called out but could easily have been called safe.

This might have been a worse play than the play that lives in Choifamy.

2005-09-26 21:15:04
233.   Uncle Miltie
Is Jim Tracy the score keeper?
2005-09-26 21:15:24
234.   natepurcell
official scorer is a tracy fan. took away the hit from choi.
2005-09-26 21:15:44
235.   natepurcell
against a lefty no less.
2005-09-26 21:17:07
236.   Nagman
232 No way, Choi just has a great sense of timing. Just like the shortstop who can throw the rainbow and beat the runner by half a step.
2005-09-26 21:17:39
237.   Bob Timmermann
Mets go ahead of the Phillies 6-5 in the 8th.

It may be too late there for the fans to boo.

2005-09-26 21:21:15
238.   MikeB
227. Recap -- Whoever replaces Tracy has to be one or more of the following:
A) a recognizable "name" to the local media
B) have a Dodger legacy
C) willing and able to follow the DePo plan
D) can handle the media spotlight without melting
If Tracy leaves (fired or on his own volition) the leading candidates to replace him nominated (in no particular order) are . . .
Kevin Kennedy
Jerry Royster
Glenn Hoffman
Ron Washington
Orel Hersheiser
2005-09-26 21:22:30
239.   Uncle Miltie
Very poor defensive play by Robles
2005-09-26 21:23:04
240.   Bob Timmermann
Steve Finley is 2 for 4 tonight.
2005-09-26 21:23:53
241.   Bob Timmermann
Giles saved a homer there.
2005-09-26 21:24:40
242.   King of the Hobos
The Padres desperately needed to win the Peavy game. It looks like that could be problematic
2005-09-26 21:24:47
243.   Bob Timmermann
Hoffman hadn't blown a save since April I believe.
2005-09-26 21:25:47
244.   oldbear
Carrara's got little chance at being back next year. Why isnt the 7th inning reserved for Kuo or Brox?

I assume Schmoll or Brazo gets the 8th, and Duaner the 9th.

Carrara and Wilson Alvares should be the odd men out.

2005-09-26 21:25:59
245.   das411
237 - You mean you can't hear the booing from LA Bob?
2005-09-26 21:26:02
246.   Nagman
I think as 226 stated, 5 hits in two games comes back to haunt.
2005-09-26 21:26:16
247.   DaveP
AJ Burnett was told to take a hike by the Marlines this evening. This after his critical remarks about McKeon and his staff.

My apologies if this was posted earlier while I was away for a few innings.

"Marlins general manager Larry Beinfest said Burnett has been asked to leave the team and will not be offered a multiyear contract during the offseason. The decision came a day after the pitcher said the team plays scared because manager Jack McKeon and the coaching staff are too negative."

2005-09-26 21:27:21
248.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps the Giants will be an inspiration to their Bay Area compatriots?
2005-09-26 21:28:16
249.   HomeDePo
i met larry beinfest and he is kind of weird... he watches a movie every night... he treats his players like property
2005-09-26 21:29:08
250.   HomeDePo
jp ricciardi is really cool... i told him i am a dodger fan and he told me everything about DePo. like jp got DePo his first job
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-26 21:29:13
251.   Nagman
Benitez time!
2005-09-26 21:29:44
252.   King of the Hobos
I need to see it again, but Kent didn't seem to try to field that throw at all
2005-09-26 21:30:05
253.   natepurcell
it wasnt like the marlins are going to be able to afford burnett this winter anyways.
2005-09-26 21:30:40
254.   DaveP
no check off for Navarro tonight on my list. I need Kuo to go an inning to hit 4 of 5 from post #92.

Jackson = check
Aybar = check
Navarro = not a good night
Choi = check
Kuo = too early to tell

2005-09-26 21:30:45
255.   Bob Timmermann
Trevor Hoffman's last blown save prior to tonight was April 29. In that game, San Diego went on to beat Arizona anyway 5-4 in 15 innings.
2005-09-26 21:31:06
256.   das411
247 - So not trading Burnett to the Orioles ruined both teams' seasons?!?

It's almost like last year when the Sox didn't get ARod....except not.

2005-09-26 21:32:04
257.   natepurcell
jp ricciardi is really cool... i told him i am a dodger fan and he told me everything about DePo. like jp got DePo his first job

did JP tell you how toronto offered their GM job first to depo and when depo turned it down, they offered it to JP.

2005-09-26 21:32:40
258.   King of the Hobos
Kielty is a poster child for red haired people?
2005-09-26 21:34:41
259.   Nagman
Does Burnett blasting management mean he lacks character and does not fit McCourt's requirement for next season?
2005-09-26 21:35:23
260.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres getting just 3 hits off of Brad Henessey & Co. is shameful. Even the Dodgers beat him up.


2005-09-26 21:35:37
261.   King of the Hobos
The A's lose on some very questionable Ks...
2005-09-26 21:36:25
262.   oldbear
Hatteburg, Crosby, Johnson, and Swisher just died in September.

They all have BA's below .200..

Angels magic # at 2.

2005-09-26 21:36:56
263.   Bob Timmermann
JT Snow got some camera time at PETCO. With his chin.
2005-09-26 21:37:47
264.   King of the Hobos
Light up the...really big Glove missing a finger?
2005-09-26 21:37:54
265.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego magic number.

It's still 4.

And the Diamondbacks are still in it!

2005-09-26 21:38:56
266.   Bob Timmermann
6-5 Mets in the top of the 9th.

Shingo Takatsu in line for the win.

2005-09-26 21:39:56
267.   oldbear
Kuo Loogies Macowiak.
2005-09-26 21:40:07
268.   King of the Hobos
The headline for today's notes: Tracy's future in question. Commentary to come soon...
2005-09-26 21:40:54
269.   HomeDePo
257 - no he left that part out
2005-09-26 21:41:06
270.   DaveP
268 - don't tease us like that.
2005-09-26 21:41:25
271.   oldbear
Good job Hong.
2005-09-26 21:41:51
272.   DaveP

and with that I officially proclaim this game a success.

2005-09-26 21:42:16
273.   Bob Timmermann
Phillies have the top of the order up in the 9th: Rollins, Lofton, and Utley.

Utley had an error in the 8th that tied up the game.

2005-09-26 21:43:42
274.   natepurcell
257 - no he left that part out

if i was second choice for something i would probably leave it out too.

2005-09-26 21:44:02
275.   oldbear
So if this weekends games mean something, whom pitches for the Dodgers?

All the Giants need to do is win 2 of 3, and they will.

If Jim Tracy doesnt completely lie down and put our C team out there against the Padres, he's going to draw the ire of many dodger fans. Possibly even some negative press for helping our arch rivals out.

2005-09-26 21:44:06
276.   oldbear
So if this weekends games mean something, whom pitches for the Dodgers?

All the Giants need to do is win 2 of 3, and they will.

If Jim Tracy doesnt completely lie down and put our C team out there against the Padres, he's going to draw the ire of many dodger fans. Possibly even some negative press for helping our arch rivals out.

2005-09-26 21:45:22
277.   natepurcell
cruz isnt this good is he?
2005-09-26 21:45:41
278.   Bob Timmermann
I think Tracy would not pull a Davey Johnson and send the 2005 Robinson Checo to the hill in a game where the division was on the line.
2005-09-26 21:45:59
279.   oldbear
Stop the presses. 2 back-back 1st pitch hits...
2005-09-26 21:46:58
280.   Bob Timmermann
Is Jose Cruz Jr. our Randy Winn?

Utley doubled with 2 outs. And the Mets are going to intentionally walk Abreu to face Burrell. Roberto Hernandez pitching for NY.

2005-09-26 21:47:26
281.   King of the Hobos
Well, the notes weren't very good despite the headline. Gurnick starts with: 'As much as Jim Tracy would like his job status to be a non-issue, it isn't, not with the seven-day opt-out window that starts next week and would allow the manager to void the final season of his contract.' This comment makes it seem like the FO might try to get rid of him, even if he doesn't void the contract. Then Gurnick says later 'It's his decision to make.' The only Tracy quote:

"I'm not sitting around, giving it a lot of thought," he said. "I have a very good job right now."

Not much else. There's an interesting quote from Robles:

"It will probably be different," said Robles [talking about winter ball]. "The fans will probably be expecting me to do more because of the way this season has been. But I'm going to play about six weeks, maybe get 150 at-bats. If I don't play in the winter, I have a tendency to get fat [from] eating all of that Mexican food."

2005-09-26 21:48:31
282.   oldbear
278. I hope Tracy does. Maybe he took that piece of Davey Johnson expertise to heart when he was DJ's bench coach.
2005-09-26 21:48:43
283.   natepurcell
i thought mexican food was pretty healthy for you.
2005-09-26 21:49:02
284.   Bob Timmermann
And Burrell hit a check swing grounder to the mound on the first pitch.

Phillies fall 1 1/2 behind the Astros.

Braves magic number: 1

2005-09-26 21:50:13
285.   Bob Timmermann
Astros magic number: 5
2005-09-26 21:50:23
286.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
283 - Fried food, with cheese and sour cream?
2005-09-26 21:51:36
287.   oldbear
Does Tracy not like Werth either? Why not pinch hit Ledee for Repko?

That one is strange.

2005-09-26 21:52:40
288.   Bob Timmermann

Oscar Robles likely eats real Mexican food so he probably doesn't eat much cheese and sour cream.

But he probably eats a lot of beans and rice and other fried stuff.

2005-09-26 21:52:50
289.   King of the Hobos
If Kent decided to finally get a serious injury (although it didn't look that serious), at least he did it now
2005-09-26 21:53:12
290.   DaveP
I initially thought Kent hurt his leg, but replay shows he got tagged in the nuts.
2005-09-26 21:53:45
291.   Uncle Miltie
Pinch hit for Werth, but not Repko?
2005-09-26 21:54:38
292.   los angeles dragons
Kent took that motherf*cker out
2005-09-26 21:54:53
293.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
288 - But Oscar probably just calls it "food."
2005-09-26 21:55:11
294.   Jon Weisman
Repko surges to the team lead in triples with 3!
2005-09-26 21:55:11
295.   King of the Hobos
Repko's having a nice night I must say
2005-09-26 21:55:38
296.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ricky Ledee reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by second baseman Freddy Sanchez. Jeff Kent scores. Jose CruzJr. to 3rd. Dioner Navarro to 2nd.
2005-09-26 21:56:37
297.   oldbear
Tracy's a genius. Jason Repko might win the season triples award after tonite.
2005-09-26 21:56:47
298.   HomeDePo
283 - mexican food is extremely fatty
2005-09-26 21:56:58
299.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
A base-clearing triple in Dodger Stadium!
Rarer than hen's teeth, I'll bet.
One of the old Elias books had DS as the worst park for triples, by far. Park Factor of 0.5 or so.
2005-09-26 21:57:36
300.   HomeDePo
274 - not like they settled for substandard... they are very similiar
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-26 21:58:20
301.   natepurcell
sanchez threw home, hit the catcher in the nuts and bounces off. kent proceeds to slide into the catchers thigh and is safe because catcher doesnt have the ball.

meanwhile, catcher tags kent in the nuts in a feeble attempt of an out.

both players would probably not want to do that again.

2005-09-26 21:59:30
302.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
301 - Yeeee-ouch.
2005-09-26 21:59:31
303.   oldbear
Guess Tracy doesnt want to let Myrow hit against lefties either.

Please let this Jason Phillips non=sense end. He plays enough as it is on days he has to catch.

Let the youngsters hit.

2005-09-26 22:00:28
304.   Jon Weisman
276 - "If Jim Tracy doesnt completely lie down and put our C team out there against the Padres, he's going to draw the ire of many dodger fans. Possibly even some negative press for helping our arch rivals out. "

No way. Tracy would get harsh criticism only if he doesn't play hard in a game with title implications. Integrity is much more important than any rivalry.

2005-09-26 22:01:35
305.   King of the Hobos
Aybar did a heck of a job checking his swing on the 2-0 pitch
2005-09-26 22:01:46
306.   Steve
We are going to pay and pay and pay for this game.
2005-09-26 22:01:51
307.   Bob Timmermann
In 1988 Alfredo Griffin hit 3 triples for the Dodgers.

All 3 came with the bases loaded, tying the single season major league record.

However, they were all on the road (Atlanta, San Francisco, and St. Louis)

2005-09-26 22:02:03
308.   Uncle Miltie
Just another walk for Aybar...
2005-09-26 22:03:00
309.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers had not lost Saturday night, they would still be alive in the divisional race.
2005-09-26 22:04:20
310.   natepurcell
how many bbs is that for aybar now?
2005-09-26 22:04:30
311.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
307 - Now that you mention it, I remember those.
And with three swings of the bat, Griffin had one-third of his RBIs for the season.
2005-09-26 22:05:27
312.   oldbear
Good at bat Choi. Thats a walk with a good umpire.
2005-09-26 22:07:28
313.   Bob Timmermann
Griffin hit one home run in 1988. And it was in the 8th inning of a 2-1 win at Montreal.
2005-09-26 22:07:28
314.   King of the Hobos
310 13. He has 8 Ks. And 67 ABs. If Aybar can get on base in his next AB, he'll have an OBP of .500
2005-09-26 22:08:26
315.   Bob Timmermann
Tomko vs. Eaton tomorrow night in San Diego
2005-09-26 22:09:59
316.   King of the Hobos
Grabowski actually played that well. That's unusual for him

315 And Hennessey vs Peavy was a guarunteed Padres win. they really need to win soon

2005-09-26 22:10:25
317.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Griffin's OPS, by season, during his Dodger days: 512, 595, 512 and 557.
2005-09-26 22:11:26
318.   oldbear
Yhency has given up quite a few homers this year.
2005-09-26 22:13:33
319.   natepurcell
Yhency has given up quite a few homers this year.

that could be expanded to "the dodgers staff has given up quite a few homeruns this year"

2005-09-26 22:14:01
320.   Icaros
318 That's because he's never thrown a pitch down in the zone in his life.
2005-09-26 22:16:47
321.   oldbear
320. I wonder what Brazo's trade value is for the off-season?
2005-09-26 22:16:53
322.   Bob Timmermann
So far, I found no bases-loaded triples for the Dodgers at home in 2004. Jose Hernandez had one in Cincinnati.
2005-09-26 22:17:57
323.   natepurcell
yhencys trade value is probably quite low. better best thing to do is keep him and hope he improves offspeed and fb location.
2005-09-26 22:18:32
324.   oldbear
It just occurred to me that the only reason Jeff Kent is playing is because he's hunting for that 30th home run.

When/If that comes, he'll sit for the rest of the year and AP will play.

2005-09-26 22:20:17
325.   Icaros
323 Agree.
2005-09-26 22:21:38
326.   natepurcell
vin just said gagne threw in the bullpen today...
2005-09-26 22:23:11
327.   oldbear

awesome i get to say that one last time. If thats Jason's last hit as a Dodger, at least he went out in style.

2005-09-26 22:23:50
328.   King of the Hobos
Did that commercial say "as Jeff Kent, Milton Bradley, and the Dodgers try to defend the division crown?"
2005-09-26 22:24:55
329.   Uncle Miltie
Aybar's numbers in 500 AB:
89 R 52 2B 7 HR 97 BB 60 K 15 SB 7 CS
In 600 AB:
107 R 63 2B 9 HR 116 BB 71 K 18 SB 9 CS

Aybar is a monster ;)

2005-09-26 22:24:59
330.   Icaros
Is anybody else a little concerned that Jackson's velocity is still down and he's left a game hurting two or three times now in the past month?
2005-09-26 22:25:30
331.   Bob Timmermann
Jimmy Sheckard reference! Woo hoo!

I'm starting to think that the bases loaded triple at Dodger Stadium by a Dodger is a very rare event indeed. I hope to find one before I go to bed.

2005-09-26 22:26:23
332.   capdodger
328 Well they did try. Sort of.
2005-09-26 22:26:37
333.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
331 - As I said, hen's teeth
2005-09-26 22:29:01
334.   natepurcell
Is anybody else a little concerned that Jackson's velocity is still down and he's left a game hurting two or three times now in the past month?

yes i am.

on another note, that duaner to dioner combo is lethal

2005-09-26 22:31:58
335.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Now we're just seven games back of the Pads with six to play!
2005-09-26 22:34:04
336.   Icaros
Kevin Kennedy just said he thinks Jason Repko should get a chance to start in the outfield next season.

Vote NO on Kevin Kennedy!

2005-09-26 22:36:14
337.   Uncle Miltie
336- and in LF. He likes Repko's speed and thinks he could hit 15-20 HRs. Said the Dodgers need to run more, steal more bases. I've been amazed that people keep mentioning him as a candidate. There is a reason why he is unemployed as a manager (and has been for some time)
2005-09-26 22:38:16
338.   Icaros
Repko could hit 15-20 HRs over a three-year period maybe.
2005-09-26 22:39:56
339.   Steve
Icaros, this might be a handy time to remind people that the last guy to win a job in "Spring Training" was Scott Erickson.
2005-09-26 22:41:06
340.   Steve
Kevin Kennedy thinks Rod Carew was a better hitter than Hank Aaron. He may be a candidate for the Dodgers job, but he is not a good one.
2005-09-26 22:42:38
341.   Bob Timmermann
It looks like the last Dodger to hit two triples in one game was Eric Anthony in Montreal on May 18, 1997.
2005-09-26 22:44:52
342.   Steve
Kevin Kennedy just said he thinks Eric Anthony should get a chance to start in the outfield next season.
2005-09-26 22:50:58
343.   Bob Timmermann

Eric Young hit a bases loaded triple in the fifth inning at Dodger Stadium off of Livan Hernandez of Florida. It made the score 5-4 Florida.

The Dodgers ended up winning 9-5.

I can now go watch "Arrested Development"

2005-09-26 23:02:58
344.   Bob Timmermann
July 14, 1995

Jose Offerman hit a bases-loaded triple against Paul Matthews of Florida.

Dodgers won 7-0.

Ramon Martinez threw a no-hitter.

2005-09-26 23:07:15
345.   Bob Timmermann
Raul Mondesi had two triples in Colorado on 8/5/1994. Still looking for a two triple game at Dodger Stadium.
2005-09-26 23:15:39
346.   das411
Timmerman slides, the tag...he is OUT at home plate!!!

Sorry Bob, but I just finished my rage-fest at Chase Utley and the Baseball God who decided to throw our entire season away on a play that Placido Polanco would have made easily.

And youse wonder why Philly fans are the way we are...

2005-09-26 23:18:52
347.   Bob Timmermann
April 17, 1993

Brett Butler hits a bases-loaded triple against the Pirates' Tim Wakefield. Dodgers win 7-4.

July 2, 1992

Eric Karros has a bases-loaded triple against Philadelphia. He hits off of Bob Ayrault. Mike Scioscia started the inning with a triple too.

Time for a rest.

2005-09-26 23:33:05
348.   Bob Timmermann
Mitch Webster hit two triples in a game in 1992 and like Eric Anthony, he did it in Montreal.
2005-09-26 23:48:22
349.   Bob Timmermann
Last Dodger with 2 triples in a game at Dodger Stadium prior to Repko:

Steve Sax, June 29, 1984 against Chicago. He did it in the 1st and 4th innings against Rick Sutcliffe. He also stole home in the first inning.

Good night all!

2005-09-26 23:55:27
350.   al bundy
Thanks for another interesting post, Jon. I enjoyed your perspective.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-09-27 00:12:54
351.   Bob Timmermann
And finally Bill Russell had two triples in a game at Dodger Stadium back in 1970. So only three Dodgers have hit two triples in a game at Dodger Stadium: Repko, Sax, and Russell.
2005-09-27 00:42:25
352.   Tommy Naccarato
Steve Finley comes through for the Angels tonight. Great having a VETERAN out there who knows how to handle end of the season pressure and produce a big hit. A person would be a MORON not to want him on his roster.

Magic number for the Angels is 2. Magic number for the Dodgers is days till next spring.

Way to go FINS!

Also, Kevin Kennedy said tonight from the stadium that the Dodgers need speed next year. That's what it takes to have big plays--SPEED.

Now, I'm sure this flies right into the face for those of you frustrated bean counters on here that can relate to baseball by looking at numbers.

2005-09-27 00:54:34
353.   Uncle Miltie
Tracy has been mentioned as a possible candidate for the managerial vacancy in Pittsburgh. It is believed that Tracy's escape clause gives him the freedom to seek other employment only after severing ties with the Dodgers, not to interview for other jobs and entertain offers while still under contract to the Dodgers."

Depo: I'd like to thank everyone for coming to this very important meeting...
Tracy's Agents: It's our pleasure. Jim told us that there was a very important matter that needed to be discussed.
Depo: Exactly! I'm glad we're on the same page. Frank and I feel that some changes need to be made...
Tracy's Agents: Yes! Well...Jim why don't you tell them yourself.
Tracy: Frank (handshake), Paul (handshake). I was elated when I heard that you guys were interested in discussing the future of the team. You see, last night I had a vision. My gut told me about a young catcher who wasn't getting much playing. The kid is hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position, yet I can't find a place in the for him. He is being blocked by the Korean fellow with the big loopy swing, who lacks baseball savvy. So I figured, since we could use some help in the bullpen, if possible..we could swap him for Matt Herges, who I am very close with. This would free up the starting first base job for the young bugger...
Depodesta slams his fist on the table
Depo: I've had it!
Frank McCourt tries to calm Depodesta down, but he is unable to contain
Tracy: I know it was just a vision, but is there a distinct possibility that it could become a reality? I would think so.
Depo: You just don't get it!
Depodesta, a disciple of Billy Beane, does his best imitation of Beane by hurling a chair against the wall causing the concrete wall to crack.
Depo: In case you didn't get it, you're fired.
Depodesta leaves the room

2005-09-27 01:12:06
354.   Bob Timmermann
Just like those speedy Red Sox, eh, Tommy?
2005-09-27 03:15:08
355.   Tommy Naccarato
I just think we need to be doing some wind sprints while carrying some sand bags or something.

We need some extra speed. Especially if Tracy comes back and wants to bunt a lot! :)

2005-09-27 07:21:07
356.   King of the Hobos
353 I think you missed the important part

'However, the Daily News has learned that a meeting took place sometime on the Dodgers' previous homestand in the office of owner Frank McCourt involving McCourt, Tracy, general manager Paul DePodesta and Tracy's Houston-based agents, Alan and Randy Hendricks. The purpose of that meeting is unclear, but the presence of the Hendricks brothers is a clear indication it had something to do with Tracy's status.'

2005-09-27 07:35:16
357.   Jon Weisman
352 - Tommy, what's the difference between veteran Finley and rookie Jason Repko, both for the season and for what they did Monday night?
2005-09-27 08:09:32
358.   gcrl
in other news, the tentative 2006 sched has the dodgers heading out my way to play the twinkies. i was hoping for a reason to get to safeco next year, but this is a welcome replacement for that trip. now you will all see the horror that is the hhh metrodome!
2005-09-27 08:10:23
359.   gcrl
from steve henson's column in the times this morning:

"In the manager's office, Jim Tracy is confronted with his own one-through-nine dilemma. Coming up with a formidable batting order is a challenge every bit as perplexing as the most difficult Sudoku problem.

If Jeff Kent bats third, who bats fourth to protect him? If Kent bats fourth, who is a legitimate third hitter? If Oscar Robles moves from No. 2 to No. 3, who handles the bat well enough to bat second?"

who indeed.

2005-09-27 08:13:57
360.   Vishal
jim tracy has gone 27-7 against pittsburgh as the dodger manager.

now that's the way to impress the new bosses!

2005-09-27 08:20:26
361.   Steve
Only in LA could there only be eight players on the roster even good enough to be playing, yet still be a dilemma about who is played.
2005-09-27 08:26:20
362.   blue22
357 - $5.7M?
2005-09-27 08:28:46
363.   blue22
357 - .020 in OPS? (in favor of Repko, believe it or not)
2005-09-27 08:54:36
364.   Vishal
[352] yeah, too bad we don't have steve finley. those poor angel fans have been getting hoarse booing him every night, they could use a breather:

and it's not like we dodger fans have enough to boo about anyway.

by the way, the only reason i'm feeling at ALL like a "frustrated bean counter" watching the dodgers this year is because of jim tracy.

and you're right, we don't have speed. but if we don't then we should acknowledge it and not try to play as if we did. how many times do robles and izturis have to get caught stealing before the manager stops giving them the green light? how many botched hit-and-run plays do we need, or misguided windmills from the 3rd base coach?

i have nothing against speed in principle, but we obviously don't have it, and it's generally priced way beyond what it's worth, so i'm not inclined to go find it.

2005-09-27 08:56:54
365.   Steve
Steve Finley is garbage.

On another note, the Marlins chemistry purge has begun.

2005-09-27 09:07:16
366.   Jon Weisman
I realize many of you know this, but last night was not about lineup construction. Jason Repko, while not a great major league hitter, will occasionally have a good game. When you get a big game out of your No. 8 slot, which will happen on occasion thanks to the law of averages, that's the kind of thing that is going to help your team win.

But when your big hitter for the game was batting eighth, that illustrates that the victory was due to anything but lineup construction.

2005-09-27 09:31:35
367.   Colorado Blue
Hi All,

It has been a while since I've been able to puruse D-T, let alone post! I sure do miss it, but I'm thinking I'll have more time in the off-season.

Anyway, I read enough of yesterday's posts to find out what Werth had to say about Kent. Here's another snippet from Repko:

``Jeff's a leader,'' Repko said. ``He's a leader by the way he plays. He talks to us individually and helps us with our game. I know he's helped me by mentioning things that have been a big help. We all want to play the way he plays.''

I think the whole chemistry theory is bunk... it's effort like Kent's to show leadership by example and one-on-one conversations that breed the drive to perform at one's best. What higher compliment could a compatriot give you than "We all want to play the way he plays."

I really don't care if Kent's a loner for the most part... sounds to me like he puts an arm around a guy when he needs to to.

I suppose Chemistry guys like Plaschke expect them to eat dinner and spend holidays together too.

2005-09-27 10:03:39
368.   dzzrtRatt
367 I suppose Chemistry guys like Plaschke expect them to eat dinner and spend holidays together too.

I'm sure that's how Plaschke runs things at the LA Times. If T.J. Simers isn't getting along with J.A. Adande, they have to go to Marriage Encounter.

2005-09-27 10:16:58
369.   Eric Enders
"I really don't care if Kent's a loner for the most part... sounds to me like he puts an arm around a guy when he needs to to."

Yeah, like in a chokehold.

2005-09-27 10:28:02
370.   ElysianPark62
I am concerned about the considerable possibility that Kent won't be here next year. He has been quoted in the Times as saying it would be very difficult next year to again be surrounded by so many youngsters, which is not what he was told when signed by the Dodgers.

Does he feel duped? Only he knows, but I would expect that he will have a long conversation with management re: their direction and purpose for next year. I hope he decides to be a part of it.

2005-09-27 10:29:54
371.   Penarol1916
What do you mean the horror that is the HHH Metrodome? I've always liked going to games there, it never seemed like terrible park, and certainly not something that taxpayers should be expected to replace.
2005-09-27 10:40:11
372.   DaveP
370 - Why do you believe there is a strong possibility that Kent won't be with the Dodgers next year? He is not a free agent. Who cares if he doesn't like so many youngsters around, especially when it was partially due to injuries. He's paid big $ to produce on the field and has a contract through '06.
2005-09-27 10:40:54
373.   Eric Enders
The Homerdome is the best ballpark in baseball, except for all the other parks.

Actually, I thought The Vet and The Kingdome were worse. But among actively used parks, the HHH is easily the awfulestest I've been to. Hefty bags are for me to put trash into, not for outfielders to leap on.

Though I have to admit, the half-removed football grid lines on the playing field add a certain aura of class.

2005-09-27 10:44:48
374.   Uncle Miltie
356- I pasted that paragraph also, but it must have been deleted. I'm not used to my new laptop (with the keypad).
2005-09-27 10:46:48
375.   dzzrtRatt
Re: Kent 370 He has been quoted in the Times as saying it would be very difficult next year to again be surrounded by so many youngsters, which is not what he was told when signed by the Dodgers.

The implication of the comment in the Times is he doesn't want to be on a rebuilding team, a la the Pirates. Assuming the Dodgers are keeping Penny and Lowe, perhaps Perez, certainly Gagne, plus Drew, and whatever corner outfielder and/or third baseman and/or first baseman DePo trades for, I don't think the Dodgers will be starting from scratch. I doubt DePo does not want the class of 2007 to have to carry the team by itself, so it's likely there will be an attempt to bring in vets for slots where they won't block the most likely minor leaguers to be promoted, but will be able to offer them some protection in the lineup.

Isn't this pretty much what we're going to see next year?

C Navarro
1B Choi/Saenz or trade
2B Kent
SS Robles/Perez/Izturis
3B Aybar or trade
LF Werth or trade
CF Drew
RF D. Young or trade

P Penny
P Lowe
P Perez or trade
P Weaver or trade or Houlton
P Jackson or other rookie

RP Gagne
RP Yhency
RP Sanchez
RP Broxton
RP Schmoll

Depending on who fills the slots marked "trade," this could be a division winner, or a .500 team.

2005-09-27 10:48:54
376.   dzzrtRatt
"I doubt DePo does not want the class of 2007..." should either read "DePo does not want..." or "I doubt DePo wants..." I was trying too hard to make this point so I over-made it.
2005-09-27 10:56:24
377.   gcrl

aside from being indoors, the poor sound system, the artificial turf (with the impossible to fully eradicate football markings), and the seats that are installed for football, not baseball, viewing, i suppose the dome is a nice place. at least there is light rail service.

we don't need to debate taxpayer subsidies for carl pohlad, but there is some community value to having the team here. hennepin county has a decent proposal on the table, although i have serious doubts about their site for the new stadium.

2005-09-27 10:58:41
378.   Fallout
370. ElysianPark62

Will Kent ask to be traded? or Will it be Kent's team? Will it be Bradley's team?
(I've always hated that term it's so & so team.)
Does DePodesta want to fill in the broken pieces or start over. Are the players in the farm system future Dodgers or bargaining pieces?

2005-09-27 11:07:28
379.   ElysianPark62
That is my point--Kent will probably have a conversation re: the direction of the team, and if he feels the answer's not to his liking, he might request a trade, not that he can demand one. He could ask to be accommodated.

I can foresee the Dodgers again trying to bide time for the youngsters to start arriving in larger numbers. DePodesta pretty much said before this season started that he was not banking on another season like last year. He basically warned fans not to be too confident about winning again and stressed that they were focused beyond 2005. To me, that was very telling.

In that respect, I can see them trying to plug gaps with a veteran or two in the starting line-up, maybe giving more youngsters a chance to win a spot and continue to look ahead to 2007.

I would like to see more than "gap pluggers," however, someone like Carlos Lee or Hideki Matsui to provide a legitimate power bat, someone who will stay more than one or two years and provide some long-term production as the youngsters arrive and then mature.

2005-09-27 11:07:42
380.   FirstMohican
378 - Will it be Bradley's team?

I would be very surprised if Bradley's back. Considering that he's been injured for a period of time every one of the last three years tacked on to his on and off court issues, it would be hard to argue for bringing him back.

How does Bradley not have an "injury prone" tag yet? Maybe everyone was too busy with his potential and his anger that they haven't considered his missed time.

I'm a huge (non-angry)Bradley fan, but considering the circumstances, how could you argue for bringing him back?

375 - Assume that Jon's 65.5M payroll estimate is a reasonable figure for next year's salary, and assume that this year's "about 100M" payroll promises were correct.

That means - if the team wishes to keep about 10M free for possible midseason aquisitions - that the team has about 25M to spend on FA's. If they spend that wisely I don't see why Kent wouldn't love to be here. If they don't spend it at all I don't see why Kent would want to be here.

Guess we'll find out for sure this offseason.

2005-09-27 11:08:58
381.   regfairfield
After a lot of thought, I'm fine with Werth in left next year, but we should have a strong reserve outfield just in case.

I think there is a good chance Cruz comes back, since I doubt any other team wants to send us a draft pick for him giving us a decent outfield of Cruz, Werth, and Drew.

What I would like to see is letting Perez play short the rest of the year, and in Winterball if possible, to see if he can hold down the fort until Izturis is ready. If he can, that lets us sign someone like Bill Mueller to a short term contract to play third. (I'm definately not sold on Aybar)

The spot I'm most concered about is fourth starter. Houlton is a decent option for the fifth starter, but, since it looks like we won't have much to spend money on this offseason, getting Ted Lilly probably wouldn't hurt. In turn, my fantasy lineup looks like this: (assuming we aren't Tracy lead)

LF Werth
1B Choi
CF Drew
2B Kent
RF Cruz
3B Mueller
SS Perez
C Navarro

Houlton/Duaner (a long shot, but he really should get a start at some point)/Someone who shows amazing progress in the spring

Repko/cheap fourth outfielder type
Free Agent reserve infielder

Schmoll/Cheap LOOGY

2005-09-27 11:14:49
382.   FirstMohican
DePodesta pretty much said before this season started that he was not banking on another season like last year.

I remember quotes about the Dodgers "Rebuilding and Competing," not anything about to not expect last year's production. What more could they have done last offseason? What pitcher was available that would've put is in the playoffs? I suppose we could've gotten Delgado, but he'll be making 13M+ when he's 36, 37 and that's scary.

If the Dodgers spend about 25M in the offseason how could they not be a whole hell of alot better than this year? (Answer that without the word "injury")

2005-09-27 11:16:36
383.   regfairfield
382 - Because there's nothing worth spending 25 million on.
2005-09-27 11:18:28
384.   Steve
383 -- Nothing but Jason Repko of course
2005-09-27 11:19:41
385.   Jon Weisman
How is the direction of the team this coming offseason different, much less worse, than the direction of the team when Kent signed in December 2004?

Since Kent signed, the Dodgers' main events were to add Lowe, Drew and Valentin. All veterans.

Werth was already in LF with Ledee, Antonio Perez was already there. Beltre was up in the air. Catcher was up in the air.

Next year, the rookies will be older, the minor leaguers closer to the majors. There will be the opportunity to add established players. The team probably will not be getting younger in 2006 at any position compared to 2005 except catcher, and I don't see how Kent can't like Navarro over Phillips.

Perhaps when Guzman and LaRoche and some pitchers arrive in late 2006 or 2007, the team will be younger. It will probably also be better. Regardless, by that point, Kent's contract will be near expiration.

The direction of the team is the same. The difference between this year and last year is returning as an also-ran as opposed to a division champion.

If that's what's bothering Kent, he needs to suck it up. And I like to think he will.

2005-09-27 11:21:31
386.   FirstMohican
383/384 - Giles, Trade for then Extend Dunn, Burnett, Trade for a pitcher like Halladay... or any pitcher in Florida considering recent developments...
2005-09-27 11:22:57
387.   Colorado Blue
381 - Re: LOOGY... won't Wunsch be back or is he a free agent? Either way, we can probably get him relatively inexpensively.
2005-09-27 11:25:34
388.   regfairfield
386 Giles is 35 and going to get a very large contract. Burnett is an injury waiting to happen (and he has bad chemistry apparently, McCourt's new chemistry freindly plan wouldn't allow that).

Trading for Dunn and Halladay are purely hypothetical. Trade who? Would the Blue Jays give up one of the best pitchers in the AL? What could we give the Reds (the fact that they reportedly just laughed at us when we offered Odalis for Dunn doesn't give me much hope in working with that team.

2005-09-27 11:26:26
389.   regfairfield
387 I think he's a free agent, but he would definately fufill the requirement of a cheap LOOGY.
2005-09-27 11:29:51
390.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Giles is weak at keeping lunging catches of long fly balls from Randy Winn in his glove.

That could be a fatal flaw for any NL West outfielder next year.

2005-09-27 11:36:18
391.   Steve
McCourt's new chemistry freindly plan


2005-09-27 11:38:33
392.   Fallout
390. Bob Timmermann

Yeah, I don't like the way he does a Vlade Divac flop.

2005-09-27 11:48:01
393.   Vishal
ugh, why do we need mueller?

i'd take the risk on bradley being injured. he should be cheap enough so that the risk/reward ratio will be much better than drew's.

also, i'd want to get rid of phillips ASAP. navarro/bako is fine. maybe even keep grabowski around to catch sometimes.

2005-09-27 11:51:53
394.   regfairfield
393 Why don't we need a guy who hit .301/.380/.436 as a stop gap? If he want's a massive amount of money, sure, forget him, but I have no problem locking him up short term.

I would also take the risk on Bradley, but I'm going to accept the fact that he's not coming back.

2005-09-27 12:02:46
395.   gregsmokler
Yeah, the initial police reports on Milton's baby mama drama didn't seem good, but then the later link Jon posted seemed to move the story at least away from milton bradley: pregnant wife choker, toward milton bradley: participant in crazy violent scuffle with screaming wife.

That's not to say he may in fact be a bad man, but the jury is still out. and center fielders with strong throwing arms, good OBP skills and home run power don't come cheap, and considering milton's trials and tribulations, plus his desire to do right by the home team....the dodgers might get some sort of a discount, at least on another 1-year prove yourself deal...

2005-09-27 12:11:36
396.   blue22
If we need a lefty complement to Perez at 3rd, Mueller and Russell Branyan are two names to consider.

For backup catcher, I guess it depends on whether you want a good glove/no hit guy (Bako) or a no glove/good hit guy (in which case I would offer up Craig Wilson, who is RH and can also play first with Choi).

2005-09-27 12:12:00
397.   Vishal
mueller - most of his slug% is tied up in doubles (he's only hit 9 homers), and his home park is fenway. how's that going to translate for a player who's going to be 35 years old and playing in dodger stadium?

if he's willing to sign a reasonable 1- or 2- year contract, maybe heavily laden with incentives or something, then fine. but if he's looking for some team to pay for his retirement, then i'll pass.

2005-09-27 13:06:51
398.   gregsmokler
branyan would be great, The true shining knight of the three true outcomes and a huge upgrade (which admittedly isn't saying much) over valentin for a year or two until the kids arrive...

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